To thine own self be true
Some of the Scottish media has picked up on our post yesterday about the senior Labour official calling on Labour voters to tactically vote for the Tories against the SNP. The Scottish Sun and The National both carry the story, reporting that Robert McNeill has resigned his positions on the party’s Policy Forum and as chair of the East Lothian constituency party, having first joined a growing list of Labour figures to have wiped their social-media history.
(Kathy Wiles, Braden Davy, Yvonne Hama and Susan Dalgety, among many others, had preceded the hapless McNeill in attempting to obliterate their tracks after this site uncovered some of their unsavoury activities.)
And today has seen the discovery of a tweet from last month by the Labour peer Lord Moonie, caught in conversation with a couple of Conservative bloggers expressing the view that Labour would be much happier in coalition with the Tories than working with the SNP. (Echoing comments from other party sources a couple of weeks ago.)
And it got us to wondering why they don’t just do it.
There’s no obligation on any party to stand candidates in every constituency at a general election. Indeed, most of the UK parties already don’t bother putting anyone up in Northern Ireland, treating it as a quasi-independent state with its own hermetically-sealed politics. And in most Scottish seats there’s a two-way contest at best, with most parties knowing before they start that they haven’t a hope in hell of winning.
And with everyone and their dog getting tangled in a mad labyrinth of tactical voting plans united only by the fact that they’re all against the SNP, it’s difficult for a rational person to see why they don’t all do the sensible thing.
It oughtn’t be beyond the wit of even the Scottish b-teams of the Westminster parties to get together and agree which seats they each have no chance in, and stand down all but one candidate to run against the dastardly Nats. They could still contest the ones that are relatively close between two Unionist parties, but otherwise they’d save lots of wasted money and resources on campaigning (and in the Lib Dems’ case, lost deposits) and maximise their chances of keeping the SNP out, which seems to be what they all care about above everything else.
So what’s actually stopping them? It’s not like they’re trying to keep it a secret that they’re desperate to stop the Nats – it’s all over all their election literature. Would, say, the 1,600 Tory voters of Glasgow North East be all that fussed at not having a Tory candidate to vote for, or the 5000 Labour voters in Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk or the similar number of Lib Dems in Ochil and South Perthshire.
But therein lies the only problem – voters tend to be rather less blindly tribal than politicians. Scottish Labour might be absolutely demented beyond all reason by hatred of the SNP, but their voters are somewhat less likely to be happy voting for a Tory. We suggested at the weekend, and a fascinating ComRes poll in the Daily Mail today confirms, that 57% of UK voters would be fine with the idea of a coalition involving the SNP, even though pundits regularly issue dire warnings that such an event would precipitate riots in the streets of England.
(Barely over a third objected to the notion, and almost 40% were even happy with the SNP voting on English-only legislation.)
So the reason the Westminster parties don’t stand aside and give anti-SNP candidates a clear run is that they’re not confident that their voters would do what they wanted them to. Denied the chance to vote for their own candidate, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem supporters might well end up backing the Nat as their second choice rather than the Unionist candidate.
Few voters put the constitution at the top of their list of priorities, certainly at UK elections, so it’s easy enough to see why it makes good sense not to adopt a “stop the SNP at all costs” policy. But if that’s the case, alert readers might wonder, then why on Earth do all three parties spend so much of their time screaming about it?
Spoilt petulant children come to mind…It’s ma baw, an yir no playin…
Aye Rev, but it’s great fun watching them vanish up their own arses
It’s the “look at me, I’m important” psyche.
I suspect that most of the guaranteed loser candidates are simply there to be seen, and to bolster their own egos, rather than be coldly logical about where their “loyal” voters would go in the event of them not being available to select on a ballot paper.
If they weren’t on the ballot, I suspect most of their supporters would stay at home with beads of cold sweat glistening on their confused foreheads.
In an ideal world, there would be two big parties in the Scottish Parliament: a centre-left one which believes in independence and caters to Scottish opinion (the SNP), and a centre-right one which props up the UK Government of the day, and caters to rUK opinion (Labour, the Tories and the Liberals – call it ‘The Unionist Party’). Add in the little parties, and I think you could have a semi-permanent majority in the parliament for independence.
Would be interesting to see how many Labour and Lib Dem voters would be willing to hold their noses and vote for The Unionist Party. The reality is that the closer together we can force the Lib-Lab-Cons, the more electoral damage it causes them.
[…] Some of the Scottish media has picked up on our post yesterday about the senior Labour official calling on Labour voters to tactically vote for the Tories against the SNP. The Scottish Sun and The National both carry the story, reporting that Robert McNeill has resigned his positions on the party’s Policy Forum and the East Lothian constituency party, having first joined a growing list of Labour figures to have wiped their social-media history. […]
For that would be the final nail in the coffin of Westminster politics in Scotland.
They might as well merge and call themselves Westminster or UK United.
As it si, you cannot put a fag paper between them on policies, just the way they nuance it is all they have. That is their virtual “fighting ground” and once that no longer exists, even to a blind dog, the gravy train is finished for them.
Holyrood should never become a gravy train in the future and that would make these miscreants uninterested in participating there.
Then the next problem would be the rotten burghs and an attempt to depolitise them of Holyrood party politics and concentrate on services provision.
I don’t know why the three Tory parties, just don’t get on with it and, merge. You couldn’t get a fag paper between them, so for once be honest, at least to your own self-serving nature, and become the rainbow Tory coalition.
The Westminster parties could join together and form a National Party for Britain, giving it the tile of British Nationa… um…
GREED.
…and another matter to consider is the ‘Rifkind Syndrome’; the condition whereby the individual, usually of an active (but wholly self-serving & delusional) political persuasion demands:-
“I want cake too…I want…me…me…there’s space at the trough for me”
As this condition is quite prevalent amongst the Unionist politico types, then expecting them to step aside, fearing an opportunity lost to fill up their own pockets is doubful.
The promotion to WM politics via the electorate is akin to getting a winning lottery ticket for many of these people, and for that they are indeed driven with the thought…
“You gotta be in it, to win it”
Mind you, for saying all that, who knows what ridiculous tactic is around the corner with SLab.
Imagine the kind of “make them vote SLab or else” pressure dudes like this are under right now. Two hundred grand a year probably isn’t cutting it this time round.
link to bbc.co.uk
I had an interesting exchange on twitter, and it’s all Salmond, SNP and especially Wings fault, for everything.
The person immediately blocked me after their last tweet, so no reply possible.
No2SNP ?Listening to the bad news for North Sea oil I feel such anger for the workers and electorate lied to so blatantly by Salmond #SNPout
Brian Powell ?@BPowell300 Errm, the oil industry and energy policy is in Westminster hands.
No2SNP ?@BPowell300 rubbish go back and consult with your lie master @wingsoverscotland #SNPout
The SNP is the largest party offering an alternative to the austerity agenda that is portrayed by the others as an imperative for the future of UK. Stopping the SNP at all costs is closing any serious, critical response to their “inevitable” cuts.
Standing as a Unionist front would be bad tactics, obviously, mainly because it would expose the reality of our so-called democracy. Can’t have the penny drop with the Great Unwashed that this is mostly a sham beauty contest for the most compliant and ambitious egomaniacs. Anyone of substance advocating change of any substance need not apply.
Smoke and mirrors, boys, smoke and mirrors – at all times.
What I take from recent, albeit panicky and fear laden pronouncements from SLAB, is that I can foresee the formation of a unionist party and the dissolution of Labour.
Both Tories and Labour in Scotland are essentially filled with British nationalists anyway, and there really is hardly any difference in their policies and core beliefs. They agree on austerity, Trident, ultra pro-American government foreign policy, scepticism of the EU at best, hostility to social democracy and obviously at the forefront of their political beliefs, a hatred and fear of the SNP, that is both funny and scary in its intensity at the same time. Of course they do not need to deal with foreign policy under the present devolved system anyway.
Does anyone seriously think that Murphy, McTernan, Baillie et al would be outraged by the formation of a unionist party with the Tories, and or the Lib Dems (particularly in the event of a Labour wipe out or close to it, in the urban areas of Scotland in May)? It has been clear since 2007 that the unionist parties hate the SNP far more than they hate each other. We appear to be rapidly moving in that direction.
It oughtn’t be beyond the wit of even the Scottish b-teams of the Westminster parties to get together and agree which seats they each have no chance in, and stand down all but one candidate to run against the dastardly Nats.
WHIT?
There are political b-teams in Scotland! WOW! I think I have just awoken from a Rip van Winkle moment here. Last time I checked they only had political z-teams in Scotland. Thanks for the update Stu. 😀
Man I need a lie down. Which way is it to the “Darkened room” again? 😉
In reality the pro union parties can’t openly stand down from contested areas because such collusion would expose the system as a farse and and the illusion must be maintained.
They also run the real risk that if thier voter cannot vote for them they will look deeper into SNP policies and vote for them, for ever!
They down want the gravy to be watered down so it can be shared with SNP MPs.
@Heedtracker
Your link was incorrect, here’s the correct one…
link to en.wikipedia.org
jimnarlene says:
“I don’t know why the three Tory parties, just don’t get on with it ….and become the rainbow Tory coalition.”
I feel that is the the most probable outcome after the election. Perhaps not a full coalition, but with either Lab or Con forming a government with the other willing to support them on an agreed range of shared politicies. There will be the pretence that one moderates a bit towards the others position, to appease voters. Trident, austerity, DevoNano for Scotland, etc etc.
One sticking point between Con and Lab might be the EU where one is desperate for a vote and the other wants to avoid it.
WE want and EU vote because it offers a real second chance on independence!
It may have been said before and Im saying it again.
It can all be summed up with the Mitchell and Webb scene where the realistic hit Gestapo officer asks his chum “Are we the baddies?”
The Unionist parties are still in the denial stage of grief ( although Anger very much prevalent with bargaining still rejected for now). They should be there for quite a while until someone wises up and takes the only decision that could save their existance – stand alone Scottish Parties.
@Bugger
Great post. Very hard to argue against it.
WOW!
That NO2SNP person really is an excellent example of a full blown Daily Record and Daily Mail absorbtion mat aren’t they BP! 😀
Must admit I couldn’t believe it when I saw the timeline from that Moonie tweet. Don’t think I ever seen one so long as that & even better so many people complaining about SNP & their strength. I found it hilarious to read.
Are they worried? You betcha by golly wow they are 🙂
Panicking? Oh my giddy aunt, YES most definitely.
Struggling for ideas-yes even when they used their collective brain cells (about 4 in total)
Should they join together? Well they can’t do any worse than they currently are doing & it would be fun to watch. Popcorn ready-off you go.;-)
“Because that is the way that it bloody well is. So just vote for me and shut the fuck up!”
The unionist could save a wad of cash if they all just used the one leaflet. (see above for sample) What difference would it make anyway?
Has it not occurred to those panicky unionist politicians, ranting on about the danger of a bus load of SNP MPs swarming through the streets of London, that they may just, ever so slightly, be fanning the flames?
The oxygen of publicity.
Keep it up chaps, you are doing just fine.
Meanwhile the Lib/Dems are shitting themselves in Argyll, where Alan Reid is rallying the anti SNP vote.
link to archive.today
A single unionist party would of course have the BBC in Scotland and the Daily Record/Telegraph/Mirror etc completely in their pocket. At the moment the BBC in Scotland know fine well that the Tories are hated with a passion here, and a single unionist party would remove the dilemma of trying to polish the Tory turd in Scotland.
Eleanor Bradbury, Severin Carroll, Poor Old Cochers, Glenn Campbell, Gardham, Crighton, Clegg etc would be constantly drooling over a single unionist party. Just imagine how corrupt and venal this outfit would be….It would be populated by the Scottish versions of Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind. No principles whatsoever, noses constantly in the unionist trough. Better Together-in the same political party….
Brian Powell ?@BPowell300 Errm, the oil industry and energy policy is in Westminster hands.
Straight forward enough. Also in their hands is teamGB vote SLab propaganda pressure and all news output. Which is why Scotland’s being attacked for the oil price drop and isn’t it all a terrible terrible thing/Nicola Sturgeon’s fault. So UKOK oil workers getting paid off, projects shelved, even 2 on 3 off has gone and its 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off now for same shite pay and so on.
Nothing like this slash and burn is happening in Scotland’s other oil rich neighbour Norway but noone in teamGB media is reporting it anywhere.
Also, Norway has nothing like future Lord tory boy Ian Wood either. Funny that
If this were to come about every single election would be by default a Referendum.
It would also maybe open the eyes of some voters up here to the reality.
Westminster and the ruling British elite look upon us as not “real Brits”
Same as they view the Ulster &Welsh MPs as a “colony” cluster.
The only real blood and soil nationalists in UK are the Little Englanders.
I’d say because what’s left of their core vote would have a hairy fit.
I reckon you’re bang on Rev. The politicians would love to do this, but oh their voters. The last shreds of difference between the parties chucked in the bin and the closed shop establishment revealed in all its glory. The last pretence that this is a union partnership gone up in smoke as London based unionist parties ‘pool’ their resources to deny Scotland’s mandated representatives. The true left of England, Wales and NI getting slapped in the face as their MPs join a formal coalition with the very party they’ve been railing against all their lives.
It’d make life in Westminster interesting that’s for sure. I hope these voters all around the UK are asking themselves, just why are the entrenched parties/powers so very afraid of the SNP? I hope, in particular, that the voters of Scotland are asking themselves this question.
I wonder at which point will the UK unionist parties realise that fighting tooth and nail (with plenty of hair pulling and name-calling) to keep Scotland in the union was a spectacular mistake.
When the oil price bottoms out (already there), or when the SNP start calling the shots (coming to a Westminster near you, or when their demands are detrimental to a Labour government?
Certainly the Tories shot themselves in the foot – they could have got rid of 40-odd Labour or left wing MPs, effectively winning the next election and probably for a few more beyond that.
And Labour are about to be wiped out in Scotland, losing their MPs and potentially having to form an agreement with the SNP to get into government, something many Labour MPs would rather not get into government (and deliver yet another Tory government) than have to do.
Plus there’s the risk to Trident and their right wing neoliberal policies.
Seems to me both UK parties would have been better off allowing Scotland to become independent.
I think it’s called “George Foulkes Syndrome”. Adopt petted lip and say “It’s not fair”.
The reluctance of the red and blue tories to form a formal, unionist alliance may also be due to the fact that they are not confident that all of the 55% who voted NO are actually committed, hard line unionists, willing to vote against a popular and competent SNP. So why immediately write off 45%, with no guarantees about the remaining 55%?
A formal unionist alliance won’t happen, but there are signs that it may be happening stealthily in some places (e.g. Labour’s weak candidate for Gordon).
SNP have just put this out on FB, I’m pleased that more and more, they are countering the crap.
Should the SNP do as well as some polls suggest, I would not be at all surprised to find one combined Unionist Party candidate per constituency in the 2020 GE. It’s too early for them now though, and also I suspect, for Holyrood 2016.
I wonder if we’re as close to winning as they fear we are
I certainly hope so judging by todays BBC LIEOMETER overload we could be
Even during the Referendum i never saw or heard in the space of 26minutes such a presentation of outright lies and misrepresentations
It would, of course, mean the ulsterfication of Scottish politics – but the three Unionist parties know there aren’t enough vote in it now.
I suspect over the next few weeks we will see the bigging up of the Scottish Greens as a spoiler tactic.
“Scottish Labour might be absolutely demented beyond all reason by hatred of the SNP”- and Independence and Scottish Representation apart, the complete lack of reason and rationality now being shown by (Scottish) Labour, the Mosleyan Politics of UKIP and the Austerity proposed Tories is the reason I feel we need the Sane Hands of Sturgeon via Salmond on the tiller at Westminster for as long as we remain part of Broken Britain.
To be honest, too, as long as we have Trident I want the sticky fingers of the demented muppets of Labour (Scots or Otherwise) no where near a nuclear explosive. I want the sanity of Sturgeon overseeing it.
I totally fail to understand why they spend so much time bashing the SNP. It reeks of desperation.
If the current round of predictions are anything to go by, then neither Labour nor the Tories will be able to stitch together a majority that doesn’t include the SNP.
link to dropbox.com
(hope this link is allowed and doesn’t mess things up).
So that would leave us in minority government territory, and a high likelihood of another election in 6-12 month time.
I think what the polls are showing is that LAB/SNP agreement is preferable to that, even for our friends south of the border.
[…] To thine own self be true […]
McNeill proposed increasing the number of Coalition seats in Scotland from 12 to 16. Imagine how sick you would feel as a Labour voter putting a Coalition MP in and then finding your vote actually put Cameron back in No 10. Likewise if a Tory voter you find that your vote pu Ed in No 10.
I agree with Stu, Labour and Tory activists hate the SNP, but ordinary voters are rather more sanguine and asking them to vote for the opposite of what they would like is a hell of an ask. It smacks more of desperation than anything and certainly doesn’t speak of honest politics
Can I just point out that they appear to be too dim to work out not standing for themselves so er… shhhhhh!
By goad yir quick you would make a good wingman on any football team.
To David McCann; WWWcaltonjock did a good one on Argyle and Bute.
To Lesley-Anne and Brian Powel;To be fair to STV news oil workers interviewed pointed out folly of not having an oil fund,and pointed out that there is no chance of a coalition but only on a clause by clause basis
Bugger (the Panda) says:
24 February, 2015 at 3:37 pm
I fully agree with that assessment.
Not all NO voters are unionist.
Therein lies their problem.
link to order-order.com
Do you ever get the feeling that they wish the had not won the referendum.
Boy these unionist are in some state of fear and alarm. Should have left us alone to conduct our own referendum with decency and they might not have been in this nice mess now.
Oh so very heartwarming to watch. GIRFUY.
They know their ticket’s been punched by the Scottish Electorate as soon as the SNP passed the 40% mark vote share. The political ‘tipping point’ had been reached and a vote for the SNP no longer looks like a wasted vote, even to the most Unionists of Unionists, it is just a voice in the political wilderness.
I would suggest a lot of the ‘press releases‘ and ‘off the record‘ briefings by the Unionists reflects this deep seated denial. The ‘SNP is a wasted vote‘ claim is not going to work this time and they are going to be left fighting each other for the political scraps in the remaining safe seats – for them its is no longer about the ‘Unionist cause’ but their own vested interest in keeping their nose in the Westminster trough.
Darwinian survival is now in play amongst Scotland’s Unionists and the ‘deil tak the hindmost’.
whilst Scots will “understand” a tory/labour alliance (even if most don’t like the idea) the alliance will go down very badly in parts of England where the concept of unionisn isn’t properly understood and Scottish affairs rarely make it onto TV or into the English versions of their papers.
I’m sorry but I’ve just seen this on Twitter! 😀 😀 😀
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
This always reminds me of Slab trying to get votes.
link to youtube.com
In the last war, France was run by German sympathisers, somewhat similar with what we have with the Unionist politicians.
The Vichey Scots?
@manandboy 4.50
Well put. I’d say the analogy with slavery is a very good one.
Dammit @Lesley-Anne that’s three minutes of my life I’ll need to try and forget
Thon bilious Westminster hordes, can see it getting close tae the bane. With seventy-two days remaining, thae Scottish arses wur meant tae be cowed.
The choice of 18th September 2014, for the Independence Referendum, now seems a masterstroke. Massive disappointment for yes voters, has not diminished their energy, willingness and desire for change.
The short window, to the May 2015 General Election, along with social-media and acts of self-destruction. Is proving so far, to be far from straightforward, for the anti-SNP parties. They loathe politics, outwith their spin-departments.
Almost certain, the daurk-airts of Westminster parties, will fire aff a few mair salvos before 7th May.
@bugger(thepanda) nice one, well said
They don’t like change at all do they. I’ve never witnessed such blatant lies and abuse before. A vote for the SNP is a vote to put a rocket right up Westminsters arse and they know it. It’s sad that they have to behave in this way when things aren’t going their way. The sooner we’re rid of them the better.
O/T i do hope mr cameron discussed sending troops to ukraine with mr putin before actually going ahead and doing it.
in fact i’d be much happier if i knew that he had any clear idea of what he was doing, positives and negatives of the idea itself aside.
Good early evening to all of you 300,000 regular readers.
What is this Labour Tactical Voting General Election 2015 chart thingmy? Ahh, aye’ve got it now, it’s their very own ‘Wheel of Misfortune’.
They’ve missed out two segments though.. Lose-a-Turn & Bankrupt.
I’d try a Free Spin anyday, what about you?
Jim Thomson says:
Dammit @Lesley-Anne that’s three minutes of my life I’ll need to try and forget
Sorree! 😀
You think THAT was bad Jim. I’ve hust had a quick tweet with someone and we were suggesting alternatives to wee Davie boy. I’ll say no more. 😉
Loving the concensus in the comments.
All three union parties converging in policy. All respond as one to any threat (snp) of derailing the gravy train.
Everything else is superficial and subject to change for the right price, as we know from this week.
Logical conclusion?
There is no such thing as, and there has never been, democracy in the United Kingdom. Just a mad bunch of royals stuck in the 1800s with their henchmen. And women.
This is bigger than indyref.
This is bigger than anything.
Vote Labour get Tory, Vote Tory get Labour – same party of business, different branches.
Here’s another two politicians being true to themselves.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Vote SNP for Scotland.
Problem for the Red and Blue Tories, is that it’s not really a union v independence vote any more.
That’s on the back burner for now.
Big issue now is more powers for Scotland.
Which most people want.
And Scots just don’t trust the London parties to deliver without an arm twisted behind their back.
@KennyG:
“A vote for the SNP is a vote to put a rocket right up Westminsters arse and they know it.”
Yep, well said.
@George. We know Russia has troops in there under the guise of the rebels. We know America has Blackwater in there under the guise of Ukrainian troops but for this idiot Cameron to publicly proclaim that uniformed British troops will be on the ground , advisory or not, is a worrying development.
The Russian carrier fleet is due its annual visit, wonder how that will now be reported.
After the recent revelations re corruption amongst the bitnats perhaps we should start referring to the as the Bribed Party
Off topic and onto the Vote X get Y drinking game, is this one on the list? From the Telegraph today:
Campaign Calculus: Vote Ukip, get the SNP
link to telegraph.co.uk
Archive is:
link to archive.today
Can anyone surmise how the Orange Order would react to a single Unionist party? They are out and out Labour supporters and also fervent unionists. How would they react to merging with the Conservatives?
I wouldn’t worry about the Russian carrier fleet Fran. After all by the time they arrive, do their meet and greet with the locals and then get on their way, we’ll STILL be waiting for a naval ship to arrive from Plymouth or will it come from Portsmouth? 😉
The net result is we’ll hear nothing until the next Putin scare story after they leave THEN it will be all over the front pages and BBC will be running an easy to read “how to identify a Russian warship” on their website! 😀
Methinks the poor things (Lab and Con) are somewhat terrified as SNP candidates have rather a lot in common with the electorate.
How come Cameron sends troops to Ukraine without running it past WM?
It does not matter how complicated the unionist try to make this election, vote this get that, vote this get something else, the simple fact of the matter is, your vote is basically a vote for Scotland, or a vote for Westminster.
We have to vote to protect Scotland, because if we don’t, no one else will.
Top of the MPs.
Cue music.
@gavin lessells says:
How come Cameron sends troops to Ukraine without running it past WM?
Because we live in a Dictatorship and PM can do what he wants.
@ Rev, Yvonne Hamma mentioned on Wings twice within ah week,ah’ll await the knock on ma door fae the polis fur WOS stalking her,cause sure as Burl Ives sung Little Green Apples am the wan who’ll get the blame,Chin up Bob Sinclair we,re awe behind you.
Lesley-Anne
That’s brilliant-well found
It’s here!
The all new improved Lab or a Tory Laboratory.
Just choose pieces from this list and assemble your perfect Lab or a Tory candidate.
Grasping hands
Swivel Eyes
Two faces
Brown Tongue
Illicit arms
Optional Heart
Plus
Bonus Fat Cat Pet accessory!
Mildly surprised he resigned to be honest. He only articulated the pouters wet dream in pie chart form.
I suppose he might have resigned because he is shit at maths. In what alternate universe would increasing the Labour vote from 41 to 43 and the Tory vote from 1 to 7 be a good thing for Ed in trying to be the largest party?
Unless all three Westminster Parties are just one big party.
Lesley-Anne
That Huff Post link is brillianly hilarious. Thank you. It needs circulating on Twitter
Does anyone else keep getting notifications Duplicate Post Detected when you try to submit but haven’t posted it before?
Happened twice to me today & it’s annoying because you lose the post completely.
Gavin lessells @ 6.26, that is exactly what I have just posted on my FB page, with link to the story from RT. I’m gobsmacked.
There is also some kind of oil special debate being run on Scotland 2015, so Sara Smith says, but she may be playing fast and loose with the term debate.
@ Briandoonthetoon & Pete the Camera. Message for you,s guys on Truth of the Matter 2.52 pm
Gavin: How come Cameron sends troops to Ukraine without running it past WM?
Not troops, but ‘military advisers’ and ‘experts’, same euphemism as the USA and just as worrying.
I see this,
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I think of this
link to youtube.com
When we get a SNP majority of MPs in WESTMINSTER the 300 year old con game against the Scottish working people will be exposed for what it is and the treacherous self serving politicians who have found the golden goose will be exposed as the fat dumb greedy frauds that they are.
Hence they nead to have all hands to the pumps TORY SLAB LIBS to protect their crock of Gold. If it is exposed by many members of SNP MPs then the game is a bogey and the walls will come tumbling down never to rise again.
The WESTMINSTER rat is in a corner and we know what rats do when they are trapped.
Bob Sinclair keep yer chin up you are not alone.
[…] Some of the Scottish media has picked up on our post yesterday about the senior Labour official calling on Labour voters to tactically vote for the Tories against the SNP. The Scottish Sun and The … […]
@ Lollysmum yes (duplicate post) it happens to me after I had kliked on a newspaper link Delete your cookie cache should be ok then.
Lesley-Anne says
“I’m sorry but I’ve just seen this on Twitter! 😀 😀 :D”
Im sorry but Im going to need a spoon
FOR MY EYES!
You lot are at it with regard to an oil industry crisis!
Didn’t you hear Better Together assure you that you are safe on the broad shoulders of Westminster?
The workers will soon have access to 30% of all goodies in a new off-shore Food Bank, they will be able to drink at the next Old Firm Football Match, and they get a wee wheel that shows them how to tactically vote in the election, if they want to keep all this?
Just imagine the task the unionists would have trying to explain to their core voters, the elderly, that this time they shouldn’t vote for ‘us’ but for ‘them’ – the party they have disparaged for a lifetime? It would surely have to be done under medical supervision.
So let’s get this straight: If you vote SNP you’ll get Tory. Therefore it’s vital to stop the SNP at all costs by voting Tory so that we wont get er.. Tory?
Does this make sense to anyone?
Thank Ronnie-I’ll try that
Richardinho
Well done-you seem to have noticed the flaw in their argument even if Slab hasn’t yet 🙂 The night of 7th/8th May is going to be veeeeeeery interesting.
Today I went on Scotland’s big voice page (one of the minor ones that I wasn’t blocked from commenting on…I warned the guys on that page not to share that Dial incase they lost their positions in their party…the response from SBV was amazing…Basically – the Labour guy was “Stupid” for sharing it.
link to facebook.com
Lewis Moonie has travelled far from his Communist/CND younger days, although alarm bells did ring when as a new MP in the 80’s he admitted Labour’s interest in devolution was about keeping the restless natives happy, having voted Labour [again] and got Thatcher. His [brief] spell as a Junior Defence Minister meant he got lucrative work from the arms industry when he was replaced. No doubt he works hard to promote socialism in the Upper House, although would anybody know?
Hmmm, Labour are being very generous with their tactical voting wheel.
They reckon Lib Dems should be able to win 9 seats, with Labour’s help.
The following are overly simplistic, ‘illustrative’ figures, but just to give you an idea:
At the last count, Lib Dems were polling at 5% in Scotland (around 8% UK wide).
Based on 2010, we can expect about 2.5 million people to vote in Scotland. That would give Lib Dems around 125,000 voters to play with (not counting Labour’s tactical voters).
If they managed to persuade all of those voters who didn’t already live in one of the 9 constituencies to move house so they lived in the right place, they would have around 14,000 loyal Lib Dems in each of those 9 constituencies.
In 2010, there were only 4 seats you could win with that few votes and only 2 of them are on Labour’s tactical wheel (Orkney & Shetland and Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross – which are conceivably still winnable Lib Dem seats).
To be fair to the Lib Dems, not all seats are the same and there are also a couple of seats they could win with a reduced majority because the other parties’ showings were so low (e.g. Charles Kennedy and Menzies Campbell’s seats).
So, if we assume then that Lib Dems could possibly keep 4 of those 9 seats with their 125,000 voters (and a certain amount of luck), Labour are asking their supporters to gift the Lib Dems an extra 5 seats which they have no hope in hell of winning on their own.
Labour presumably believe that in return they’ll get some Lib Dem tactical voters in seats where they need them, but remember in the above scenario all the Lib Dems in those other seats have moved house.
Being serious, the current polls and the 2010 figures are so far apart that nobody really knows how each constituency is going to be affected by the apparent shift to the SNP (and the collapse of the Lib Dems). Labour are playing a desperate and dangerous game trying to engineer voting to keep the SNP out – and it has the potential to backfire spectacularly.
Not that I’m complaining 🙂
It HAS happened before. The seat was, I think, in the North of England. Some years back when BNP were gaining popularity it was agreed not to field candidates who could ‘split the vote’ and allow BNP a foothold. Speaking personally, on seeing SLab’s unwillingness to cooperate with SNP in a parliament designed for cooperation and their subsequent hatred of them in Holyrood, I began to question SLab’s motivation. This actually stopped me voting Labour after 20 years and voting SNP for the first time ever.
@Dr Ew says:24 February, 2015 at 3:50 pm@
“Standing as a Unionist front would be bad tactics, obviously, mainly because it would expose the reality of our so-called democracy. Can’t have the penny drop with the Great Unwashed that this is mostly a sham beauty contest for the most compliant and ambitious egomaniacs.need not apply.”
I keep saying it and it seems no one believes it. It is, though, absolutely true. The, “Establishment”, has been centred upon the south of Britain ever since the Romans landed and took over south Britain and tried to conquer the whole British Isles. From then it has just been one elite ruling class after another ruling class, till now.
In fact from the Anglo-Saxons onwards it has been basically the same bunch. The Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Norsemen, Norsemen and Normans have the same genetic roots. Yet genetics also proves there is less than 5% actual Anglo-Saxon descendants in Britain. In other words those elite rulers did not breed with the Britons and we still have hereditary peers in the HOL today who are descended from the Normans. We also have the Royals who are all interbred European aristocrats.
Now take a look at a few of the present leaders : –
Cameron graduated from Brasenose College, Oxford
Miliband graduated Corpus Christi College Oxford.
Nick Clegg,University of Cambridge, University of Minnesota, and the College of Europe.
George Osborne, Magdalen College, Oxford.
Anyone see a trend emerging here?
BTW: Osborne is heir to two ancient Irish Baronetcies which, (Baronetcies), are known in Ireland as, “The Ascendancy”.
As you say, Dr EW, “Smoke & Mirrors”
D’oh!
Re my earlier post, I’ve just twigged that the tactical voting wheel originated from some anti-SNP-tactical-voting-group rather than from anyone in the Labour party.
I’m not sure if that makes it better or worse!
Either way, tactical voting can only work if you have some certainty over the likely proportions for each party – which in the current climate, I’m not sure anyone really has (despite some fancy speculation on the Facebook page I just looked at!).
So good luck with that, anti-SNP-tactical-voting-groups.
Another one hits the dust. Soon the Unionists Parties will not have enough members to stand as candidates. It will be red/blue/yellow Tories all the way, waiting for a fall in Scotland. Their ‘vacant coupons’ greeting faces, don’t know which way to turn, for more corrupt statements. More ‘dirty dials’, a relative expression, than a clock face. How the majority delight as each of them fall.
They don’t unite for tactical voting because they only join a Unionist Party to line their own pockets. The greedy pigs at the trough are more interested in self worth, ie helping themselves, than helping others. Especially the electorate they are supposed to represent and the vulnerable. That is why ‘austerity’ doesn’t work and people are so angry. How can 40 years of debt, and illegal wars, be paid back in four years.
The Unionists Parties funded by Hedge Funds. The SNP funded by it’s members.
The people in Scotland are working to fund the extravagance and misdirection of Westminster and London S/E. Westminster secrecy and lies.
Fully expect a situation as described but for the reason where eg the partys dont put up candidates in a tactical situation where it might water down a unionist partys chances of beating the SNP in the FPTP election. Lets face it they have plenty money so loosing a deposit aint a reason not to stand.