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This is how it begins

Posted on April 29, 2017 by

This appears to be a genuine question from a YouGov poll going out to selected areas of the country today. We’ve had a couple of people confirm it to us who we have no reason to disbelieve. (It also asked this.)

The particular political arrangement it’s testing the waters of public opinion on there is fascist dictatorship. God help us all.

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  1. 29 04 17 18:56

    This is how it begins | speymouth
    Ignored

273 to “This is how it begins”

  1. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s the season for it I’m afraid to say: Trump, Erdogan, now May. 🙁

  2. Jim Stirling
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    says:

    Jesus,what really worries me is the fact that plenty Tories will pick strongly agree

  3. Donald MacKenzie
    Ignored
    says:

    God help us all indeed.

    If it is correct, then the very fact that it seems reasonable to ask such a question demonstrates of backward we’ve become and how low our politics has become.

  4. Neil Mackenzie
    Ignored
    says:

    Theocracy is another one.

  5. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Great British fascism. Be afraid.

  6. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow – is that a question or a statement of things to come?

  7. Thee Forsaken One
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, I’ve seen that question. I was genuinely shocked to even see it being asked. My hope is that people didn’t agree.

  8. Juteman
    Ignored
    says:

    If we don’t escape soon, we are fucked.

  9. Neil Mackenzie
    Ignored
    says:

    Monarchy is also a good fit.

  10. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    strong and stable leadership – strong and stable leadership – look into my eyes – strong and stable leadership – you are getting sleepier and sleepier – relax now and swoon into a condition of belief – you want a strong and stable leader…
    Theresa is a strong and stable leader.

  11. Albert Herring
    Ignored
    says:

    And who would want to ask such a question?

  12. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    In a way it makes some sense: If all political parties do is parrot the establishment line, what difference does it make which of them gets in? The normal events of democracy such as elections and parliamentary debates become merely an impediment to swift and decisive action.

    Labour in the UK and the Democrats in the States have in a large way paved the way for this in their blind pursuit of power at the cost of sacrificing their principles.

  13. bittie45
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, really, REALLY frightening. Who sponsored the survey. Would be interesting to know where the “selected” areas are.

    O/T
    “When we do news reports we are not allowed to influence them apparently” The other day I was listening to John Beattie and nearly spilt my coffee when I heard this in response to John quipping “Anne Marie and I are down to the bookies soon” then asks Nick Eardley “Who do you reckon will be back?”. Nick replies “Who do YOU reckon? …we’re not allowed to gamble on stuff…”, followed by the above at 1:10:40 into the programme. I thought this just so slightly ironic as the previous article (0:50:00) had been talking about fake news with “The Ferret”! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08m9sqt was broadcast midday last Wednesday)

  14. Bert Logan
    Ignored
    says:

    Shudders.

  15. Marie Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    My God, has it really come to this, that they would even think to ask such a question. This is outrageous, what the hell do folk think parliament is for, mind you, the answer to that these days is just what the tories want. This is an extremely worrying turn of events.

    I agree with Juteman @ 5.39.

  16. birnie
    Ignored
    says:

    A question which worries me greatly, and one which has yet (to my knowledge) not been reported in the mainstream media, is that of the process by which Ruth Davidson was appointed honorary Colonel of 32 Signal Regiment.

    It is true that the armed services act on the instructions of the government of the day, but it is not the British tradition that they are the creature and instrument of the party in power. Even Hitler’s generals resisted that role.

    Who instigated and approved Davidson’s appointment? What was the justification given for placing an active prominent and controversial politician as the figurehead for a military organisation? What message is the operational commander of that unit meant to receive?

    Given the sensitivity of the role of communications in national security and control, the appointment seems to be a sinister straw in the wind absolutely in tune with the implications of the YouGov question.

  17. eScarIV
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m more interested in the answer than the question. I can’t imagine it being higher than 20% positive, but people are nuts. Also any insight on who commissioned this poll?

  18. donald anderson
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    says:

    Not just the Tories, but their followers; the Black Hundreds, poor white trash and lumpenproletariat.

  19. taysider
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    says:

    I am sure most tories here,would welcome Gauleiter Davidson rolling down the Royal Mile in her panzer.

  20. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s lambs blood roon the doors and wait again
    Pharoh had the same bother wae the likes o us dissenters

    Bloody slaves are never happy, it’s aw let ma people go, blah blah blah, trouble wae folk is they just never understand the concept of strong and stable dictatorship

  21. Juteman
    Ignored
    says:

    @birnie.
    I hadn’t thought of that.
    The Signals are too close to sensitive online information for a politician to be involved.

  22. Robert Graham
    Ignored
    says:

    The Logical conclusion of might is right ,dissent and opposing opinion is for the wooly headed and the weak it just muddles things up , we need a clear vision ” OUR VISION ”
    How easy it is to manipulate the population with help from a compliant media , this regime has studied pre war history and is in my opinion EVIL simple as that a threat to us all .

  23. rob
    Ignored
    says:

    I was asked this

  24. Truth
    Ignored
    says:

    And the idiot yoons would actually vote for such a situation if only to “stop Salmond and Sturgeon”.

    Their blind hatred and idiocy is harming us all including the life chances of their own kids.

    I truly despair. How can anyone think recent developments in the UK is anything short of horrific?

  25. RodneySofa
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, I had this poll a day or two ago. Scunnered that they are asking such questions. Rest assured I answered appropriately. Meanwhile May “visits” Scotland to a wee hall, audience by invitation only. Democracy in action. We need out of this embarrassment of a union.

  26. Scott Borthwick
    Ignored
    says:

    I completed this survey too. They also had a question on whether you feel people have to be born in Britain to be truly British.

    They did have some questions on Scottish independence also, e.g. whether there should be another referendum within the next 10 years, voting intention and whether you think Scotland would be financially worse off.

    No doubt someone with wads of cash is planning more mischief in the media.

  27. annie
    Ignored
    says:

    I responded to the survey, Scottish Highland area, it was a particularly long one, needless to say my response was to strongly disagree. There was also a rather nasty question about race.

  28. Gullane No4
    Ignored
    says:

    I notice from the Crathie Hall bookings that they hold Morris Dancing sessions ?

    Who on earth goes to them ?
    Balmoral staff?

  29. Andrew Parrott
    Ignored
    says:

    Birnie at 5.48pm

    Birnie, Honorary Colonels are, if I remember correctly, appointed for a five year term at the discretion of the Commanding Officer of the unit, with the agreement of the individual appointed and the military command structure. I believe Ruth Davidson served in 32 Sig Regt as a soldier in the past. Honorary Colonels are just that, honorary appointments, and play no role in the operational command of the unit. Yes, they tend to be “establishment” figures but there is really nothing sinister about it, just the following of an old fashioned establishment tradition. A long time ago George Younger was the Honorary Colonel of a TA unit I served in but, if I remember correctly, he relinquished the appointment when he became SofS for Scotland.

  30. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Worrying that these two questions are being asked. Who wants to know the answers!?

    Actually it could be poll assessing fascist dictatorship as a threat, or as an option!

    The fact it’s being considered at all, one way or they other, is a very very dark day.

    The politics of the far right are beguilingly simplistic. We must be ever vigilant to cheap in that direction. And let’s face it, England is the country at risk here. Indpendent or not, Scotland doesn’t want a 1970s South American style junta on our doorstep!

  31. Scott Borthwick
    Ignored
    says:

    Come to think of it, that survey also asked if I was registered to vote and to confirm my postcode.

    I’m not generally one for paranoia, but I might be willing to make an exception.

  32. Katrina McLeod
    Ignored
    says:

    Gullane, sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it’s Crathes Hall that she of ‘the strong and stable leadership’ mantra has been at, not the Crathie one further west and as you note, on Balmoral’s doorstep!!

  33. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    People better waken up. They don’t have to look far to see that already we are on the road to a right wing dictatorship. I don’t believe I’m exaggerating in any way.

    Just look at how the disabled are being treated with benefit cuts, just look at people, our own people relying on foodbanks to feed their children at times.

    The title of this article is spot on “This is how it begins”.

    A fucking disgrace it is and it makes me fell ashamed even though I could never vote for this. I’m ashamed that others can, that our media encourage them and that there seems to be no recourse.

    ARE THESE FUCKERS THAT VOTE FOR THIS TOTALLY BLIND & STUPID?

  34. clan rossy
    Ignored
    says:

    Heil Hitler

    3 x a day
    1 x mein fuhrer for wee ruthie and her
    fascist nazi party.

    seriously its time to get out before they send
    in the troops and tanks.

    for thats what it looks like will happen if
    we do not get out soon and i mean soon .

  35. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    There used to be the vacuous ‘what we need is a benign dictatorships”, amused chittering from the chattering class.

    If it happened, as is possible with the UK isolated from Europe, the same class would shitting themselves and chattering, ‘How did it happen?’

    Well it happened because so many spent so much time chatting and reading the Guardian,s, and even other broadsheet and thought their reading was the same as doing.

    We still have a chance, though when it comes down to it, the UK Gov may arrest leaders. Problem is the ones in the left and the Labour party were the ones who spent most time chatting, and the ones in the Slab party are too dim or blind to see it coming.

  36. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Juteman

    If we don’t escape soon, we are fucked.

    Never a truer word spoken (or written).

  37. Robert Graham
    Ignored
    says:

    on the bbc website we have a short clip of what they present as mayhems visit to scotland , who knows it could be anywhere , we are presented with 19 heads too of them children , the ones at the back holding the usual placards all men and all nodding obediently in unison to her squeaky voice , all the other faces , not one smile just looking straight ahead as if waiting on instructions , a more contrived stage managed piece of theatre i have yet to see , contrast that with Nicolas always light hearted off the cuff visits it couldnt be more stark the differences between them .

  38. Ann Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    Not even the worst question on it! Was asked my opinion on various people born in UK – ie Asians, black people, white people – to rate my opinion from 0 being very cold through 50 being not hot or warm to 100 being very warm. Disgusting 🙁

  39. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Juteman says:

    If we don’t escape soon, we are fucked.

    Campaign slogan for Yes2?

    Too strong for some sensibilities? Well, they bloody well need to wake up and realise the seriousness of the situation. England and Wales are headed for a very bad place and we don’t want to be dragged there with them.

  40. Walter Scott
    Ignored
    says:

    Strong and stable government

  41. Free Scotland
    Ignored
    says:

    The fact that YouGov accepted the commission to run the poll in the first place surely says something about how low that organisation has sunk.

  42. starlaw
    Ignored
    says:

    If that you gov poll is for real the UK is set on its journey to a very dark place, the first people the Nazi’s turned on were the disabled. Ruthie has even got a familiar looking pair of glasses .. where did I see them before …
    also watched the party rally from the back of beyond, and noted, when the sound of cheering erupted not a lip moved not even a smile from the placard holding Zombies in front of the Camera

  43. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    This is the same type of shite that Bowie was coming out with when he was living on nothing but raw eggs, cigarettes and cocaine.

  44. pool9
    Ignored
    says:

    The Tories like the Top-down approach to rule.

    They are the benevolent aristos who suffer to rule and look after the benighted souls beneath them in the social order.

    For them noblesse oblige really is a burden. The poor darlings.

    They ignore their own wealth and privilege. Or rationalise it away as something they ‘earned’.

    Poor people have to be managed. And always have. Feudalism was a good system, what? Everyone knew their place then!

    This latest generation is not the first to be so deluded as to believe their own propaganda, just the latest.

    Previous generations were disabused of the notion and restrained in their excesses. Notably by the rise of organised labour in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

    Before that it took revolutions like those of 1848, 1783, 1776 to put them in their place.

    Earlier still it was uprisings, be it by Wat Tyler, or Spartacus. Even if the revolt failed, it forced change.

    Those at the top always seek to over-reach, and always imagine those at the bottom will take it forever. Forever is a mighty long time.

    This survey is another example of this aristocratic, authoritarian generation’s attempt to overreach. (This time aided by Big Business, if not bought and controlled by Big Business) Beacuse as every generation before them that tried it, they think they won’t be gainsaid.

    We must gainsay them. The ballot box still has the power to undo their hubris. Use it.

  45. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Gullane No4 – there used to be an Institute of Terrestrial Ecology near Banchory – now closed down – with scientists from all over the world, including England. I believe they started up the Morris dancing sessions originally. But many local people also joined it and it seems to be a popular activity especially for men.

    Morris dancing used to be very popular in Scotland although now associated with England. Seems to have been imported via Flemish immigrants many of whom settled in Scotland bringing weaving skills.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_dance#Name_and_origins

  46. Roger
    Ignored
    says:

    Calm down, guys! Yougov asks a wide range of questions, sometimes ridiculous ones. It doesn’t mean they think it’s a reasonable question, but there will always be a few who agree.

  47. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    “Sovereign” Scots will never accept fascist dictatorship.

    Not for more than 620 years anyway.

    “Sovereign” Scots should block this general election which no-one wanted.

    “Sovereign” Scots should vote when they want to vote. Not when some dictator in London calls them to vote.

    Any “sovereign” Scots around?

  48. Socrates MacSporran
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella @ 6.56pm

    So, Morris Dancing is a European import. Pass this news on to Conservative Central Office – it will blow their tiny minds.

  49. AlexK
    Ignored
    says:

    It looks like this could be an effort to identify those who disagree in order to eliminate them/

  50. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a BBC clip of Morris dancing in Banchory in the very hall in which Big Theresa addressed the faithful today:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01rj50t

    Enjoy

  51. DerekM
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye the elite have squeaky bum syndrome.

    Though as for the UK turning into a dictatorship hello it is a dictatorship already always has been.

    The thing that scares these greedy fuckers more than anything in the world is you waking up.

    Are you ready for the truth?
    The story of your enslavement

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

  52. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    Morris Dancing is a European import. Pass this news on to Conservative Central Office – it will blow their tiny minds.

    Aye, and they need to consider that fascism is an import from Europe too 🙂

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Etymology

  53. Ghillie
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow.

    That is sickening.

  54. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran – indeed. These foreigners, coming here with their dancing. Why can’t everybody just clomp around randomly. Like we used to.

  55. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    @Capella

    Now it’s clear why it was held there. The “cringe” must be strong in Banchory, more’s the pity.

    Know what, I’m just going to fight all the harder to make sure we gain our Independence this time. No cringe here and there will be no dictatorship either.

    PS Rock why don’t you just piss off you cringing creepy halfwit.

  56. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Morris dancing is only practised by wealth old men who have retired to Royal haha Deeside, no one else.

    Royal Deeside’s long been a retirement area for wealthy tories, in the Empire era, even more so. As that empire gen died out, they left a legacy of fine ex colonial estates and mansions that were cheap as chips in the 70’s and 80’s. Ofcourse they have all been bought, jumped in astronomic price and the estates have been infilled with executive villas, for wealthy retirees, get rich quick style.

    And all of them at the tory thing today in Crathes, will be all of the above and below.

    Facebook,

    Exposing anti-independence bias on the BBC. shared Henderson Farquarson-Smythe’s post.

    10 mins ·

    Theresa May turned up to speak to the people of Scotland, for propaganda and close up shots to make it appear as if she is loved and adored.

    The Truth is even more bizarre than her claims of popularity in Scotland. Where did she choose to make this statement? Well she booked Crathes Village Hall under the disguise of a childrens party, to avoid having to meet or answer any questions from the public. (For info Crathes Village has a population of 143 people, is 117 miles north of Edinburgh and 136 miles distant from Glasgow.)

    The children’s party was for invited guests only, no villagers or members of the public, with only press there that would look favourable on the Tory Party, No local press allowed.

    Now the question is do you believe Mays propaganda about being strong and stable and popular in Scotland? Or do stunts like this child’s birthday Party booking strike you as weak and wobbly in Leadership?
    The Tories are just manufacturing propaganda and staged events to be spoon fed to you on the Evening News on BBC & ITV.

    All of them would love to live in strong stable fascist UK, maybe.

    Have nightmares.

  57. justin fn minty
    Ignored
    says:

    just watched the bbc news, mrs may speech round of applause,jerry corbin ditto,tim farron same, nicola speech clip cut off before applause

  58. Jack Collatin
    Ignored
    says:

    in 1932 Hitler won over the industrialists, the merchants, the Bankers and the Intellectuals by setting out a vision of low taxes for the haves, smashing the Trade Unions, and marginalising/persecuting the Jews, Communists, and Socialists. He promised that he would provide strong and stable leadership too.
    I am not worried. May’s the one who cowered in a wee hall in Banchory, despite the Loyal BBC describing it as ‘taking to the campaign trail to Scotland.’
    Back in Hitler’s day,they didn’t have the internet, or WoS, WGD, Peat Worrier, Derek Bateman, and so many more Sentinels of the Truth.
    But they seem to be following the 1930’s propaganda model, right enough.
    They are worried shitless: a telegram will surely land on the Foreign Office desk soon: ‘Scotland has Fallen.’
    All together now,
    Ho ro,my nut brown maiden.’ jingle jingle, prance dance.

  59. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say the poll was funded by people who support the Tories.

  60. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    Actually, Banchory has a strong SNP group with an SNP councillor and MP. They will be campaigning enthusiastically to return SNP councillors in May and Stuart Donaldson SNP MP in June.

  61. starlaw
    Ignored
    says:

    Perhaps Theresa’s having a boxing match with the Queen for the title.

  62. Scott
    Ignored
    says:

    Davidson says.

    Ms Davidson said she will be looking to win all 59 seats in Scotland by the time the election comes round because she gets “so into the campaigns”. I bet this will come back and bite her on the a*** not by me though no postal votes to see yet Tank.

  63. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Jack Collatin

    If like me, you’re from Royal Deeside, and a dog walker, you get to meet a lot of people just like those that were cheering for Mayhem, in that hall on Crathes.

    Most have retired, are wealthy and they certainly do not want change. Most are retired from the tops of their professions, from oil expro engineers and execs, to City slickers and local Sheriffs. They’re highly intelligent, wealth off and they are more than keen to tell how bad Holyrood is, how bad the SNP and so on. They are worth listening to, if only because its hard to work what really motivates their politics. Is it merely an upper class British nationalism hard core toryism, no different from OO marchers in Ayrshire?

    Closer to Aberdeen, these people crowdfunded a million quid in legal fees to stop Aberdeen’s new AWPR, and it worked too, held it up for at least a decade, costing the north east economy billions, adding at least a billion to the overall cost of the AWPR, when eventually all the legal actions failed. Its another billion quid we all have to pay for.

    Why did they do it, when England has one of the most modern and extensive road networks of any western economy, why would intelligent wealthy old dudes block the same for the north east of Scotland?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-14489401

    One of the many weirder aspects of this hugely Royal Deeside tory block on the AWPR, is that neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal is STILL monstering the by-pass, for anything at all.

    Who’s the P&J big spender readership?

  64. David
    Ignored
    says:

    The root trouble is a lack of relevant information and a lack of critical thinking.

    Whenever you get a population that crosses a certain average level of stupid you get the potential for anything.

    Britain crossed it a while ago.

  65. scottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s funny I used to laugh at documentaries that talked about global elites taking dictatorial control of the planet.

  66. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    My god, I have to say, these are truly scary times. Is England sleepwalking into totalitarian rule?

    Day after day, we hear Tories talking of a ‘great repeal bill’, which will undo human rights legislation among other things, and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. They talk also of giving Theresa May ‘Henry the Eighth powers’. I mean seriously, that is absolute totalitarianism. Henry the eighth was an evil murdering despot

    Post brexit, I think England will be a vary scary place.

    Meanwhile in the nonsense general election, I do wish the media would stop covering these farcical ‘event’s’ by the Tory party. What is the point? No questions are asked or answered, it is just a ‘pretend’ campaign.

    The media right across the UK, is really, really letting people down. They are all so obediently ‘doing what the party minders tell them’, so no questions get asked. It is an utter joke. It is exactly the kind of nonsense we saw in the EU referendum.

    The media across the UK need to wake up and ask just what it is they do, and why do they even exist.

  67. scottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    @David
    Alot of older folk i have spoken to still associate the tories with the party of the 50s where govt ran deficits necessary to create full employment. As long as you worked hard you would be ok and all that.
    That’s no longer the caSE yet I hear them talk of the young as wasters

  68. Ricky
    Ignored
    says:

    I can confirm , that this was indeed a genuine question that was asked . I do these surveys regularly .

  69. msean
    Ignored
    says:

    One does wonder who wants that question answered,and wonders what is being contemplated by them.

  70. John Kerr
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m in Rutherglen and got this 2 days ago, amongst other questions and couldn’t believe it being asked. You-Gov know I’m pro-Indy and SNP, so I couldn’t quite work out who this was being aimed at.
    Can’t believe how rapidly things are turning nasty and don’t understand the mindset of the yoons. I spend a lot of time trying to get people to look at sites like Wings, but sometimes despair at the level of wilful ignorance and the “I’m doing fine with the BBC and the Mail” responses.

  71. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    I also did this poll a few days ago.

    I have been asked many times about being registered to vote (which helps them remove anyone who won’t be voting to avoid skewing their data, but also reminds people who’ve forgotten to register!) and to confirm my postcode.

    I assume that if I had refused to do this, my answers would have been discounted – I wanted to make sure my objections to such obnoxious policies were included, so I did confirm it.

    In 2015, YouGov assessed the likely outcomes in each constituency. They did this by using results they already had, from their general polls. In Scotland, the actual results were very close to these. They will have located their respondents by postcode. They may plan to do this again.

    Such information could of course also be used for nefarious purposes.

  72. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s just a cut and paste job from Wiki, but it’s how the Spanish Civil war started…

    “The Francoists took control of Spain through a comprehensive and methodical war of attrition (guerra de desgaste) which involved the imprisonment and executions of Spaniards found guilty of supporting the values promoted (at least in theory) by the Republic: regional autonomy, liberal or social democracy, free elections, and women’s rights, including the vote. The rightists considered these “enemy elements” to comprise an “anti-Spain” that was the product of Bolsheviks and a “Judeo-Masonic conspiracy”….

    Beware Scotland, let us be watchful and prepared. We need to watch out for any attempt to shut down our parliament at Holyrood, before our politicians start being arrested.

    I think the Rev is wrong for once; this ISN’T how it begins, we are an awful lot further down the line than just the beginning.

    Ask yourself what actually happens if Nicola Sturgeon proceeds with an Independence Referendum which Theresa May forbids or declares unlawful? Theresa May don’t forget with Henry VIII’s absolute powers unrestrained by parliament. It might seem incredible to us that our First Minister might be arrested, our Parliament closed, and our rights to hold a referendum or political gatherings (like Yes rallies or protests outside the BBC), could be declared illegal. It might be unthinkable to us, and yet the Unionist Press has already called for Nicola to be beheaded for treason. Ridiculous headline? Or is it perhaps the mood down South?

    Call me Mr Cynical, but what if Theresa May is thinking precisely that? Maybe not Plan A exactly, but perhaps a credible contingency if the UK becomes dangerously unstable. Nicola Sturgeon detained, and an interim administration under Ruth Davidson put in place. “Separatism” is declared illegal.

    Makes you wonder, and wonder hard, what did ordinary German, Italian, or Spanish citizens in the 1930’s recognise as danger signals in their own respective slides towards Fascist dictatorships? Did they find the stories too incredible and unthinkable to take seriously???

    I hope it is an overreaction which proves wholly unnecessary, but we really need the UN and EU to be taking a close interest in what is happening here, and laying down some heavy hints that Westminster does not start screwing with Scotland’s institutions and democracy.

    Really makes you wonder doesn’t it? Don’t have nightmares now…

  73. Robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s all just the Tory con. She has no balls to do a debate and will only go to these closed tory meetings which are invitation only. She avoids the public at every opportunity and is not comfortable in her own skin.

    Is it just me ? Just look at this women in media, in fact in parliament she’s just as bad, a stuttering bumbling fool. no wonder she won’t do a debate. In a debate she won’t have scripted questions to answer,they’ll be quick fire direct topics and she’d be made to look a fool. Nicola would have a field day wae her, even Corbyn. How anyone can say she is strong is beyond me?? I think she’s Dugdales mother- she looks as if she’s about to greet every time some one throws a un-scripted question at her.

    Don’t be kidded the tory elite know she’s useless and she won’t be there long, unfortunately .

  74. Sunniva
    Ignored
    says:

    Who commissions these polls? That’s what I want to know.

  75. Phydaux
    Ignored
    says:

    This is scary shit indeed…useful data for whom and for what purpose? Regime change, anyone?

    The Tories’ campaign has to be a stage managed pretence, to maintain the veneer of knowledge and the fiction of “British” democracy.The media is totally complicit and supplies the necessary narcotic of ignorance and delusion.

    Theresa May is like a badly programmed robot… a prototype, perhaps, before the next one is spewed out from Westminster Central, a new and improved version which can pop up anywhere in the U.K. … Orwellian Newspeak writ large.

    A quote from The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt:

    ” The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists. ”

    How bad does it have to get before Independence is declared?

  76. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    Has anyone came up with a good nickname for Theresa May yet? If not and in light of this YouGov question and other recent activity can I suggest May-Gabe?

    P.S. Looks like Scotland has found its own Gina Miller http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-court-challenge-second-referendum-dr-andrew-watt-a7709136.html

  77. jfngw
    Ignored
    says:

    We will all remember when it started, the Crathie Hall Rally. The banners were waving, they cheered in unison. One united people, one party, one leader.

  78. Dinnatouch
    Ignored
    says:

    I was watching the film Cabaret tonight with my daughter. The glimpses the film gives us of the rise of nazism in ’30s Germany are deliberately unsettling, and the final scene and credits roll is particularly disturbing. Imagine my horror then when I read this article a few minutes later.

    The two poll questions linked above scare the shit out of me. Germans of the ’30s could see what was coming, and so it seems can we. The poison seeping into our society will destroy us if we can’t put a stop to it soon. My worry though is that even independence may not be enough to save us if we can’t counter the hate being peddled by the Right and their propagandists in the media.

    I’m an atheist so god can’t help me, but fuck, this is scary.

  79. Robert J. Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies, posted this at the tail end of the previous thread, but seems even more appropriate here:

    Theresa May’s “justification” for avoiding a TV debate is that she “prefers to get out-and-about and meet voters”. Oh really? Given her typical invitation-only party-faithful little bubble that was today’s “children’s party” in Aberdeenshire, this is all too obviously a GREAT FAT LIE.

    She daren’t meet real people in Scotland, since she would be confronted, and for all the media to see, by what most of us really think of her and her policies, in flat contradiction to all Rude Gal’s grossly-inflated posturing.

    May is The Great Pretender:

    Not strong – brittle.
    Not stable – clueless and drifting.
    Not resolute – feart.

  80. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Was there a question about trains as well? Well Scotland is nothing more than Living Space for certain Brit Nat Tory creeps.

    That gathering for May today was a Pavlovian trained audience of the braindeid. An audience of drooling thugs regardless of age!

  81. John H
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah, the good old days. Up until the outbreak of World War Two, there were plenty of British aristocrats who supported the nazis. It’s always been there under the surface, hidden, but lately they are becoming bolder. I don’t think it’s wrong to be concerned.

  82. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies o/t Just sent this email to STV re TV debate excluding the Greens Patrick Harvey ,I am not a massive fan of him or his policies but what ITV are doing is wrong FFS we will have to listen to wee willie’s pish

    “Dear Sirs,

    I read with dismay of your decision to exclude Patrick Harvie MSP of the Scottish Greens from the General Election debate on 24th May.

    As you know, the Greens hold more MSP’s than the Liberal Democrats and are therefore an intrinsic part of Scotland’s democracy. I am aware that this election is not for Holyrood but nonetheless to disregard the distinctive political realities of Scotland at this time is damaging to our democracy and counterproductive for a news and broadcast media under intense criticism for its perceived systemic Unionist bias. Will you join your neighbours at the BBC in being another mere mouthpiece for the Union and associated vested interests or will you do the right thing as Scotland’s channel and include the Greens? This would help balance the 3 vs. 1 Unionist vs. Independence format with which we have all become so wearily familiar and the Greens will raise many important policy areas that the other four parties, including the SNP, won’t.

    I have also been extremely concerned at the exclusion of specific items of importance for Scotland and the Scottish people e.g. the total omission of any news in relation to possible terrorist activities against the Scottish government and their representatives.

    I trust you will come to a more sensible decision in short order.

    Regards
    this is part copied from a letter on the National

    yourview@stv.tv email address

  83. highseastim
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s hoping the SNP can get the vote out as the unionist cabal will be deeply involved in”lending votes” to their fellow unionists and we all know what they are all about after the pitch invasions and monkey chants from rabid unionists today!!

  84. Jockanese Wind Talker
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, aye @Rock says at 6:59 pm thought you were off for the May Bank Holiday weekend??

    TI see you pop up when your pin up girl, the Honorary Colonel of 32 Signals Regiment gets a mention.

    Anyway, I make that £4.80 in Better Together cash for that post.

    You never answered me prevoiusly are you still getting a bonus for making ‘Cybernats completely lose it’?

    Does Better together Blair have to declare your teams payments as electoral expenses now he is standing in the GE?

  85. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks at 841pm,

    You ask what people thought in other countries which slipped into dictatorship. They thought EXACTLY what people think here, ‘oh, that kind of thing couldn’t happen here in
    (delete as applicable) Germany/Spain/Italy/Portugal/Turkey’.

    Their is no upside to Brexit. Only dictatorship could push such an extreme, and extremely damaging policy through to conclusion.

    We need a referendum on independence more than ever.

    n.b for those unaware, ALL of the countries I listed above have experienced prolonged, aggressive dictatorships during the 20th century.

    Portugal 1926-1974
    Spain 1939-1975
    Germany !934-1945 (east Germany (GDR) 1949 to 1989/1990.
    Italy 1922-1943/45
    Turkey – present day (Erdogan)

    But hey, let’s keep deluding ourselves with ‘Oh, but it couldn’t happen here’. What we apparently need right now in the UK to pull the country together is ‘strong and stable leadership, with no opposition and those who oppose it are denounced as “saboteurs”.

    Tke a look into the history of the countries above, and you will find that almost without exception, each and every dictator used EXACTLY the same rhetoric we now see coming from the Tory party in 2017. Almost word for word.

  86. Robert J. Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    heedtracker @ 20:57,

    So May is now claiming that the SNP aim to

    disrupt our Brexit negotiations, undermine the task ahead, stop us from taking Britain forward.

    This lets slip that the real reason why Mayhem called this UKGE is because she was afraid that Nicola & Co had a stratagem prepared and ready to launch after Easter to hold the UKGov to ransom via devolved powers over the Great Repeal Bill (sic).

    Hence this relentless Tory hammering on about “no referendum” to the cost of everything else. May is a control freak and she can’t abide the thought that SG could interfere with her plans.

    The fatal flaw in May’s reasoning though is that unless she can get a majority of MPs in Scotland and a majority of votes as well in an election played by WM’s own rules, she will not be able to nullify the mandate that the SG already has via the ScotGE last year.

    The Tories and their fellow-travellers in the media will no doubt try to make the most of any slippage in the SNP’s tally – we can all just hear it now – but it won’t change the brutal fact that the SNP will continues to be able to claim a massive majority in both respects over the Tories.

    So all this fuss and bother will change nothing. Except likely finish off the Labour Party in Scotland as a serious contender.

    (And in the meantime, an interesting further legal challenge looming from Andrew Watt… hehe)

  87. The Dog Philosopher
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood 6.53

    That would suggest that May is … The Thin White Plook?

  88. sinky
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone holding a children’s party must pass Disclosure Scotland vetting did Tory MSc Burnett produce this before hiring Crathie Village hall?
    Also most church and village halls forbid political activities.

  89. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Are those graphs from the Telegraph seriously not printing the party name ‘SNP’ in their voting intentions in Scotland instead denoting as ‘other’ and the country ‘Scotland’ is not mentioned in their graph depicting vote share across the UK?

    WTF is happening with these crazy yoonbat nutjobs?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/858419000669327360/photo/1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/858421312481628168/photo/1

  90. JGedd
    Ignored
    says:

    re:Breeks 8.41pm

    Yes, an example of how democracy can be subverted by incremental steps. The political emotional climate has been ramped up for some time now in the media and by certain irresponsible politicians. The recipe for destabilising democracies has long been known and carried out many times in S.America for example – Chile and Argentina?

    One interpretation of this poll is as an exercise in testing the water. There is a lot of money sloshing around out there in secret funding. Perhaps there are certain interests who want to plumb the depths to ascertain just how deep an attachment to democracy there is in the population.

    Brexit unleashed some unpleasant demons and it might have been considered worth a whirl to see just how far the limits can be pushed…just for interest’s sake you understand. It must be very tempting for some shadowy players to investigate – let’s say – possibilities.

    Or conversely, someone is having a laugh and wants to cause mischief and uncertainty. It might be some kind of sick joke. It’s such an obviously crass way to go about it. Conspirators don’t normally advertise their intentions through polls, do they?

  91. Fusbol
    Ignored
    says:

    Is the intended purposes of the poll to create a reaction from activists that would undermine Independence?

  92. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Amazing what can be achieved with CGI these days. BBC and Parliament TV.

    Is there any firm evidence that Theresa May actually exists as a real person?

    Of course there is! Nicola has met her, she must exist.

  93. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘Strength through unity, unity through faith’

    V for Vendetta (film version) wasn’t far off the mark.

    This IS how it begins.

    Great Repeal Bill – British Bill of Rights – Henry VIII clause enactment. Ministerial legislation without parliamentary oversight or debate.

    Your rights, civil and human. What’re they worth under a Conservative government looking at a couple of decades dominance of Westminster parliament and politics?

  94. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @The Dog Philosopher (9.45) –

    🙂

    Aye.

    She’s had years of practise for the part, dressing-up as a Dr. Who villain.

  95. dakk
    Ignored
    says:

    More than a few of my customers seem up for this iron fist gig.

    On me saying May wouldn’t pee on you if you were on fire,she replied ‘maybe that’s what the country needs’.

    Another lady thought the Chinese doctor beaten up on the US plane deserved it.

    Endless tales of single mum’s on £50000 p/a of benefits.

    Mostly very comfortably off women.All No voters.

    What a body has to endure to scrape a living 🙁

  96. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    I was going to be all smart and post a paper linking evolution, Darwin, Darwinism, Alfred Russel Wallace, Socialism, Malthus, and individualism, then I thought nah.

    Also, what about your actual Tory canvasing of Scottish opinion? Where does that fit in an open society with accountable politicians?

    Lee Perry and The Upsetters – Cloak & Dagger
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1CmbZwq_4

  97. Liz Rannoch
    Ignored
    says:

    Mayhem is hardly ‘campaigning’ in Scotland, not when she’s on ‘Peston on Sunday’ tomorrow 10am STV.

    I’ve had a look at his twitter and he’s looking for questions, I would ask him:

    Is the reason you’re so keen to stop Scotland from leaving the fact that it’s their resources that you will be bargaining with? and:

    Just how will more Tory MPs strengthen your hand in the negotiations – aren’t you just after more power in UK.

    Pity I’m not on twitter.

  98. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    It will be interesting to see the results of this poll, but going by what I read on the web there does seem to be an appetite for some kind of authoritarian leadership. Particularly in America, I often hear people from the right assert that ‘the USA is not a democracy’ and you can see that attitude spreading across the world. I think there will be a sustained attack on the Scottish Parliament by the incoming Tory super majority government and I think we have to be ready for that.

  99. ahundredthidiot
    Ignored
    says:

    RUN

  100. Robert J. Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    heedtracker @ 20:03:

    Closer to Aberdeen, these people crowdfunded a million quid in legal fees to stop Aberdeen’s new AWPR […] One of the many weirder aspects of this hugely Royal Deeside tory block on the AWPR, is that neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal is STILL monstering the by-pass, for anything at all.

    Ach, it all started when the route was modified slightly to shave the edge off Milltimber, where lots of these well-to-do folk live. (Including the top dogs of the P&J, I shouldn’t wonder.) Before it touched them they didn’t give a toss. So much for principle – it was well-funded rampant self-centred nimbyism.

    Just another stick with which to beat the SNP, except inconveniently for the yoonionist grumblers, the decision was taken by then local MSP Nicol Stephen, LibDem Minister of Transport in the Lib-Lab coalition. (Remember it?)

  101. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    P.S. Ach why not? Topical, me?

    Uneasy Bedfellows: Alfred Russel Wallace and Nineteenth-century ‘Socialist Darwinism’

    Abstract

    This paper’s object is to clarify the relationship between Alfred Russel Wallace’s (1823-1913) socialism and evolutionism. This paper contends that although conflicts emerge between Wallace’s socialism and Darwinism through the issues of the role of Malthusianism, the perfectibility of man and the role of individualism, he remained committed to the Darwinian Theory. Indeed, it will argue that, rather than undermining his belief in Darwinism, Wallace’s socialism evolved within the new intellectual conditions created by the ‘Darwinian Revolution.’ This paper argues that intellectual exchange between political thought and science enriched both, and concludes that to erect any barrier between the two distorts the historical and intellectual reality.

    http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/reinvention/issues/volume3issue1/lester/

  102. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    Strange question. First thought was that it wouldn’t be Tory, but could be a political opponent. Then maybe it is Tory, seeing if different campaigns would be needed for different parts of the UK. But they would know that already.

    So I’m back to the idea it’s an attempt to discredit the Tories, and Theresa May in particular. So it’s probably David Davis or Boris Johnson – or Gove! Or UKIP of course.

  103. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    Key thing in the question though is “strong leader”, which May uses a lot, hundreds of times a second in fact. So that does make it possible if it’s published widely, it’s an attempt to turn people off May by associating her with facists and dictators in a solid way. Good luck!

  104. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Ha ha ha. Glad I stayed up. Just watched the clip in Rev’s Twitter feed where Davidson “interviews” May.

    Comedy gold. I swear, it’s Fkn hilarious.

    Its almost as funny as Spitting Image without any puppets.

    I’ll have to watch it again. Pinch me I’m dreaming… lol

  105. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Breeks –

    SNAP!

    It’s astonishing.

    ‘Let’s hit the doors!’ says Ruth, whereupon they both march off into impenetrable swathes of forest…

  106. sinky
    Ignored
    says:

    On Tory fraudulent booking of Crathie Village hall, when booking children’s party you are required to prove person in charge has passed Disclosure Scotland vetting.

  107. Clootie
    Ignored
    says:

    Phew!…..I thought she said “I will give you a long and painful dictatorship”

  108. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Och, we’ve all just lost our way. Back in the day ….

    As a child my parents bought me The Children’s Encyclopaedia by Arthur Mees. Others may remember this. It cost my parents a lot of hard earned money which they paid over a year or so.

    By a certain age, 11-12 perhaps, I began to have doubts about whether the wholesome nature of this publication was a bit too skewed towards British Supremacy!

    Remembering this, I just read this overview on wiki …

    “Its articles were clearly written and intended to develop character and sense of duty.

    The article expressed pride for Great Britain and its empire. Christianity was held to be the only true religion. Europeans were clearly the most advanced and there were hints of the eugenic ideas of Caleb Saleeby. This was presented in a moderate and liberal way in many areas: other “races”, although inferior according to the text, were to be treated with respect, and imperialism was justified only if it improved the lot of its subjects.”

    My point is that views and attitudes which we now considered to be waaaay out on a far right limb were still ‘enlightened’ mainstream within (my) living memory!

    The whole belief of Anglo-British superiority, entitlement, exceptionalism, elitism … is alive and well among many still, especially the Tory/UKIP/Brexit faction.

  109. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    the decision was taken by then local MSP Nicol Stephen, LibDem Minister of Transport in the Lib-Lab coalition. (Remember it?)

    I do Robert J. Sutherland. But its been so long in the coming, its hard to undo the blur of who and why.

    Fact is though, a decent road network for the north east of Scotland and oil capital of Europe Aberdeen is at least 40+ late.

    While England pumped hundred of billions into their road network over the last 50 odd years and ofcourse still do, yoon culture decided that Aberdeen would do without.

    Even today, the dual carriage to Aberdeen ends at single lane medieval brig o Dee, built with a bequest of £20,000 by Bishop William Elphinstone who died in 1514. It is a nice bridge, if you’re a happy sheep drover or stage coach driver.

    Why our imperial masters thought this was good enough for Europe’s oil capital, is another teamGB mystery.

    I like to compare the ultra modern road networks of say Newcastle, Hull and Leeds, listen to them moan they want more, then wonder what they’d say to HGV’s heading for Aberdeen harbour supplying North Sea offshore oil industry, as they squeeze over ancient Aberdeen bridges.

  110. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Trump got less votes than the opposition.
    Erdogen – fraud? non stamped votes were allowed.

    The Tories cheat and lie to illegally win a GE. Commit electoral frraud in 31 constituency. May lies and calls a GE to cover up. The EU Ref was illegal and a fraud. The Tories should not have a majority in Gov. The criminals should be put in jail.

    There is morris dancing at 20.00pm on a Tuesday at Crathes Hall. Says it all. Could May and the Tory/unionists get any weirder? Osbourne sneaking in and out Aberdeen ruining the Oil & gas sector with unfair, unequal, high Tory taxes when the Oil price had fallen was bad enough.

    Cameron’s poseur – action man – visit on the RAF jet and then the helicopter (£100m an hour) to Shell HQ Altens. Instead of a regular flight and a hired limo. Quite weird to destroy the Oil & Gas sector and get into such a mess. He had to resign. Did not declared £10Million? of property.

    The local Tory not to be trusted in the family business. Too dim. Gets into politics to hoover up some Council contacts of public money. Gets the chance and overcharges consistently. Embezzling public money. Essential services were being cut by the 3rd rate rejects Tory dominated Council. They did not want to put up Council tax but wanted to cut essential services and education. Now going up a pittance for the well heeled. Borrows another £25Million to cover the downturn. Against the tax exempt land? Reckons the Oil sector should ‘stand alone’, with illegal, unfair higher Tory taxes. 40% since Jan 2016. Supports fracking. Is May looking for a donation? It has to be declared.

    Scotland lost 120,000 jobs in the Oil & Gas sector There are 120,000 unemployed in Scotland. Scotland could have had full employment.

    Multimillionaire Burnett reported for election expense fraud. Gets off. Reported three time for not declaring an interest in parliamentary questions. Inappropriate conduct. 3rd rate reject. Comes last in the vote but still gets in on the list. Ist preference votes go in the bin? The unionist corrupt electoral system. 2nd cousin to the Queen. Nearby estate Balmoral. The right Charlie is in residence. Hols. Ballater and Braemar love the Royals. They reckon they bring in tourists. The visitors line up at 11 am on a Sunday at Crathie’s Kirk, for a sight.

    A Tory campaign in a wooden tin hut. Quite weird. Dumbing down or scared to meet and greet. The greeting faces of vacant coupons. Getting some advice? May’s husband the £Billion Fund manager. A nearby estate, Glen Esk, was once sold off by a Jupiter fund manager. Divorce. The Farquarson Estate (Mar?) Braemar Castle. The estate ended up in the hands of a London based cousin with no heirs. Eventually it was sold? Glamis not very far away down the Devils Elbow to Perth. At the Elections. SNP banners all the way down to Dundee. Only few Tory ones in the landowning fields.

    Brexit will affect tourism. More complicated visas etc. It will put up the cost of fracked Gas from the US and Norwegian Gas. Now being imported. More Oil & Gas being imported putting up the balance of payment deficit and the debt. Foreign students no longer come because of visa problems.They pay the full cost and benefit the economy. The Tories let foreign students at Oxbridge, Imperial and Bath have a two years, work experience, post study visas. Not allowed by the Tories in Scotland. Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster centrist economic policies for years. Now people contributing to society are being illegally thrown out of Scotland. It is just scandalous.

    What if Brexit negotiations means more free movement of people. An increase of migrant getting in for any access to markets etc. The Tories could end up paying more for less. Then propaganda etc setting that as the best deal. Would not put it past them. The price for crushing UKIP. They are that vindictive.

  111. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    There are quite a few fascist indicators in the Westminster Tories and UKIP.

    Harking back to a glorious past – empire 2
    Desire for a strong leader
    Demonising the outsider – immigrants, Scots, muslims
    Fear mongering about the enemy within – saboteurs
    Belief that God endorses your policies
    Opposition to democratic decision making
    Serving the interests of a privileged elite

    They curbed the power of Trade Unions, Local Authorities, and academic institutions and the media during the Thatcher period. The only institutions left to provide check and balance are the judiciary and parliament itself.

  112. tamson
    Ignored
    says:

    I have a theory – it applies to all cultures over time, but particularly in our modern world the USA, the Russians and the UK – the English in particular, in the latter case.

    Put simply, it’s about never having been conquered, in the sense of someone’s else’s flag flying overhead. The problem it creates is a level of latent trust in rulers which is incredibly powerful – the notion that “Yeah,they might be bastards, but they’ll never screw up THAT badly”.

    As such, the most vulnerable countries in the world to dictatorship are probably the UK and USA.

  113. Sinky
    Ignored
    says:

    I doubt if our fearless press in Scotland far less in Uk will investigate the Tory deception over Crathes village hall booking.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/theresa-mays-fake-meetings/

  114. penfold1013
    Ignored
    says:

    Another question on this poll was (paraphrasing a little)

    ‘What would you think if the UK was to accept 10,000 Syrian refugees but not allow them access to benefits or public services’

    The options were , strongly oppose, oppose, neither, approve, strongly approve.

    Now, how would you answer that if you strongly approve of the first aspect of it but strongly oppose the second? This sort of skewed questioning occurs all the time in the polls sent out by yougov etc

  115. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sinky (11.19)-

    🙂

    You beat me to it, but hopefully our double-teaming will persuade more to read this.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/theresa-mays-fake-meetings/

  116. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    As I see it the Westminster Establishment have known for a considerable time that their time was up and the end of the United Kingdom was inevitable. They knew the game was up long ago and the things that should have made Scots take immediate action were missed by the vast majority of even dedicated, long term SNP supporters.

    The signs of the Establishment thrashing about in an effort to delay matters were all very plain but for some unfathomable reason most Scots could not see what was going on under their noses.

    This all goes way back to before devolution and perhaps probably even triggered devolution. Strangely not too many Scots know the full early history of North Sea Oil.

    The UK Continental Shelf Act came into force as early as May 1964. Seismic exploration and the first well followed that same year but it and a second well were dry. Then BP’s Sea Gem rig struck gas in the West Sole Field in September 1965 but disaster struck and The Sea Gem sank, killing 13 people after part of the rig collapsed as it was moved away from the discovered well.

    The Viking Gas Field was discovered in December 1965 with the Conoco/National Coal Board well. Larger gas finds followed in 1966—Leman Bank, Indefatigable and Hewett, but by 1968 companies stopped interest in the British sector This was a result of a ban on gas exports and low prices offered by British Gas

    Then West Sole came on-stream in May 1967. Licensing regulations for Dutch waters were not finalised until 1967. In December 1969 Phillips Petroleum discovered oil at Ekofisk, in Norwegian waters in the central North Sea and Amoco discovered the Montrose Field about 217 km (135 mi) east of Aberdeen.

    BP had been awarded several licences in the area in the second licensing round late in 1965, but had been reluctant to work them until the Ekofisk discovery prompted them to drill what turned out to be a dry well in May 1970. This was followed by the discovery of the giant Forties Oil Field in October 1970 and the following year, Shell Expro discovered the giant Brent oilfield in the northern North Sea east off Shetland and the Petronord Group discovered the Frigg gas field.

    The Piper oilfield was discovered in 1973 and the Statfjord Field and the Ninian Field in 1974. The 1973 oil crisis caused the world oil price to quadruple, followed by the 1979 energy crisis which caused oil prices to further triple. Oil production started from the Argyll & Duncan Oilfields (now called Ardmore) in June 1975 followed by Forties Oil Field in November of the same year.

    The inner Moray Firth Beatrice Field was discovered in 1976 with well 11/30-1, drilled by the Mesa Petroleum Group, (the only oil field in the North Sea named for a woman”).

    So actually things were happening and more or less made little impression upon most Scots by a Westminster Establishment scared to death of the oil & gas from mainly Scottish waters being claimed by the SNP for Scotland.

    So the Westminster Establishment In 1975 faced a real dilemma. How could they exploit the full potential of the Scottish oil fields without also fuelling demands for Scottish independence? They knew the potential and they knew the likely consequences. So Westminster simply buried the evidence that was given to them in The McCrone Report.

    This document could have changed the entire course of Scottish history. It is nineteen pages long, handwritten by the leading Scottish economist Gavin McCrone and presented to the Westminster Cabinet office in April 1975.

    Then hurriedly buried deep inside a Westminster vault for another thirty years. It stated that North Sea oil could have made an independent Scotland among the top few rich countries like Switzerland was at that time.

    The Freedom of Information Act has yielded many treacherous Westminster dealings but none so treacherous as the many years of theft of the Scottish Kingdom’s rightful resources.

    It was written in the dying days of the Ted Heath Governments and the theft continued under every Westminster Government till today. They are not about to relinquish their grip upon Scotland for without it the Kingdom of England will become bankrupt.

    So there is the truth – Westminster has been planning how to keep control over Scotland by any means they can. It does not require any great leap of imagination that when they realised the truth would come out they would have already formulated plans to frustrate Scottish independence.

    Hence they formulated plans for the bipartite United Kingdom to change the relationship of the only two, equally sovereign, partner Kingdoms. This resulted in devolution whether Scotland liked it or not.

    Yet devolution refers to the statutory granting of powers from the Parliament of the United Kingdom to the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales, the Northern Ireland Assembly and note well also the London Assembly.

    However, this is rather underhanded and in fact is totally illegal. The United Kingdom is without doubt a union of only two equally sovereign independent Kingdoms and thus Westminster is a bipartite union.

    There are only two Kingdom’s signatures on the Treaty Documents and both former Independent kingdoms must therefore have equal sovereignty. Westminster is NOT the renamed Parliament of the Kingdom of England and there is no documentary evidence that states otherwise.

    Yet Westminster claims, without evidence, that in 1707 the Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom. There is nothing to show this to be true.

    Furthermore, by dividing the former bipartite United Kingdom up as four separate countries, an actual United Kingdom can no longer exists and thus neither can a United Kingdom Parliament. How can they claim that the Kingdom of Scotland no longer exists but a united kingdom does – united to what, exactly?

    Indeed the Westminster Parliament is the de-facto parliament of England and there is no other parliament elected as such. It also uses EVEL to prevent all others from interference in what Westminster claims is English Only matters. Yet it funds England directly as The United Kingdom.

    Not to mention that as London is devolved then London is classed as a country and the Kingdom of Scotland is no longer classed as a kingdom but as just another country of England’s dominion like Wales & N. Ireland.

    I contend this illegal claiming of sovereignty by Westminster has been planned by the Westminster Establishment since they were aware of the potential of Scotland’s resources.

    If ever alarm bells should have been heard throughout Scotland it should have been when Westminster devolved the powers of England to Scotland, Wales, N. I. and even London. Not only that but when they began to claim the Treaty that made the United Kingdom had Extinguished The Kingdom of Scotland but not that of either the Kingdom of England or the United Kingdom we should have walked out of Westminster and called in the international courts, The Council of Europe, the United Nations, The EU and the Commonwealth Countries to save the Kingdom of Scotland.

  117. Arbroath1320
    Ignored
    says:

    I was going to say un feckin believable but then I remembered who the media circus in London are all rooting for.

    We need out this broken xenophobic pro rich Tory run Fascist murderous warmongering union and we need out … NOW!

  118. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    The allegation is Nicol Stephen re routed AWPR Stonehaven link to avoid the parent’s residence. Labour/unionists blocked the by-pass road for over thirty years. Fifty years of Labour. The LibDems blocked the by- pass road for ten years. The infrastructure chairman was a green. The landowners joined the LibDems to get more control. Get voted in. The local MP was a LibDem, Malcolm Bruce, voted in to stop the Tories. Claim to fame getting investment in the overnight sleeper, which was threatened with closure. The greens protest group were secretly funded by Fortescue Irvine to stop the road going near the estate.

    The travellers on the roads spent hours in hold ups spewing out emissions. Not very green. Often hours late etc, 1st Minister on 3rd rate roads. Large lorry traffic going through the City, often loaded with massive oil sector equipment. They could not by pass. The protests put up the cost of the road. The Trump development was campaigned against by a handful of greens. Again the majority wishes. Still £Milliions of investment. The wind turbines in the the Bay are being built funded by £Millions of EU investment. They will power thousands of homes etc.

    The NE was one of the only growth area in Scotland because there were jobs. Infrastructure was totally neglected by Unionist politicians. Also underfunded 30% of all other council authority settlement by Labour dominated Cosla. Until Devolution and Holyrood came along with more inward investment in Scotland and the NE. AWPR.

    The airport extended for Internatiinal flights. Direct flights cutting emission and less extra connecting flights putting up costs. Anywhere but Heathrow – congestion and extra expense. Overnight stays etc. The rail times should be improved in Scotland. To compete with flight times. For comfortable journeys and customer satisfaction. . For faster direct journeys. Not HS2 longer disconnection. Taking longer. London to Birmingham takes 1.30 hours. Central belt to Aberdeen/Inverness,. A comparative, estimate journey takes 2.30 hours. Faster links and travel times benefits the economy.

    £Billions in Oil tax revenues going to London Treasury. Westminster kept it secret. The unionist Scottish Office colluded in the deceit. Kept hidden under the Official Secrets Act by Thatcher. ‘This must be kept secret’, written on Official documents. When Scotland was supposed to be treated equally. Forsyth and Lang her henchman. One of her Ministers resigned, he would not be involved in the duplicity. Andrew Neil, Thatcherite, supported with the biased BBC reports. ‘Of Scotland’s economic demise’. Lies, secrets and video tape. They are still available to view. A multimillionaire on the make. How low could they scoop. A penthouse in Trump Tower is the ill gotten reward. Murdoch, Barclays etc. Not even UK citizens, illegally control the MSM. Millions of innocent people being maimed, killed and harmed illegally.

  119. Almannysbunnet
    Ignored
    says:

    You think that’s bad, check out what this guy is suggesting.
    Or, the more radical way, you combine organic and inorganic parts – perhaps directly connecting brains and computers.
    The rich – through purchasing such biological enhancements – could become, literally, better than the rest; more intelligent, healthier and with far greater life-spans.
    At that point, it will make sense to cede power to this “enhanced” class.

    https://archive.is/2uMRT

  120. BBC Scotland Tells Lies
    Ignored
    says:

    Zen and the art of Conservative political messaging.
    by weegingerdug

    EDITED BY REV. STU: There’s a magical thing on the internet called a link. Please use it rather than repeatedly posting entire thousand-word articles by someone else as a comment.

  121. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    Where am I?

    The truth is I don’t have a clue where I am now, politically anyway it doesn’t look like the UK I grew up in anymore.

    Berate me if you like but it’s only a few years ago that I realised that not all was as it seemed in this so called Union. It’s rotten to the core and the stench is sickening.

    It’s getting even worse though, what kind of government can treat so many of the disadvantaged the way this Tory one does, seriously what kind of person deliberately sets out to do that to another human being when they have all the trappings and privileges that wealth brings?

    I don’t get it, “psycho bastards” right enough as Ken500 often reminds us of one Tories description of themselves.

    We no longer need to put up with their fascism, we have a choice to get rid of them and we must take that choice as I see the UK as being on a very slippery slope. There is no opposition to speak of and it will likely be even worse after this election.

    The Tories want to abolish the EU Human Rights act FFS what does that mean? Whatever, it cannot be good. All of us have a duty now to oppose this, we need to get up off our arses and do everything possible to ensure we escape this fate.

    The Brexiteers are coming, they want everything and are determined to get what they want. We must have none of it.

    C’mon the people of Scotland stand up and tell the Tories NO.

  122. Ken MacColl
    Ignored
    says:

    There appears to be some confusion between Crathie -which is close to Balmoral and Crathes, which is close to Banchory and, of course , to Crathes Castle.
    It would appear that the Prime Minister visited Crathes to address a highly exclusive selected audience booked under questionable procedures by someone not unconnected to the local laird and Tory MSP. You surely didn’t think for a minute that she would be addressing an open public meeting?
    By the way Nicol Stephen got the inevitable bum’s rush from his electorate but secured the equally inevitable ermine and pass to the red benches of the Lords soon after and has sunk now thankfully from view

  123. Famous15
    Ignored
    says:

    Ms May please tell the viewers what the weather will be tomorrow?

    I demand strong and stable leadership to last a thousand years…in a nice North Korean Ruthie sorta way.

    Aye right,coming up!

  124. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Dead Ringers, Teresa May, will they do that bizarre Scottish tory characteur Ruth D? They laughed at the Nazi’s too, but did they.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv0JYIbRSCI

  125. BBC Scotland Tells Lies
    Ignored
    says:

    Craig Murray:

    Theresa May’s Fake “Meetings”

    The sharp-eyed among you will have noticed that many of those forming the “audience” for Theresa May’s speech in Crathes looked even less enthusiastic than usual.

    The real Tories are very obvious to spot. But when you look at the BBC video from which this picture is taken, you can see that the others not only do not look enthusiastic, they do not join in the clapping. Do not take my word for it, watch the video – the body language, apart from the obvious Tories, is more of hostages than supporters.

    My contacts in Banchory tell me that this is because, in a weird Tory return to the 19th century, it was made clear to tenants of the Crathes estate that they were expected to turn out to support strong and stable leadership. The heir to the estate is Alexander Burnett, old Etonian and Tory MSP. Which century are we in?

    The area, “Royal” Deeside, is a magnet for rich retirees from Surrey and had the highest UKIP vote in the Scottish EU elections. It is perhaps the only part of Scotland in which May could truly feel at home.

    The popular theory among election advisers is that the electorate are stupid and do not pay attention to elections. There is therefore no point in trying to discuss detail or make any intellectual explanation of policy dilemmas. All the electorate will notice are simple slogans, which can be repeated infinitely because most voters don’t pay attention and will only hear them two or three times.

    The Tories are testing this theory to destruction in this election. Shielding May from any “real” encounters, from any debate with opponents, and from any questions except a very few from picked right wing media, they intend to coast to victory. In Scotland this approach is so at odds with the active citizenship that was inculcated by the referendum campaign, I believe it will fail badly. We will see.

    So what did May say in Crathes? Well, according to the Guardian

    “she had told her supporters that she was the only leader capable of providing “strong and stable leadership” for Britain as the country headed towards Brexit.
    “At this election, people will have a clear choice between five years of strong and stable leadership with me and my team or a coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn,” she said.”
    Which funnily enough is exactly what she told her supporters in Leeds at her last “meeting”. That was remarkable because, in one of the most ethnically diverse districts in the UK, she spoke to what looked exactly like a Broederbond gathering.

    I was delighted that the Metro newspaper conducted a sober appraisal of my statement that Tory policies are identical in most important respects to the BNP manifesto of 2005, and found I was right. You might imagine that might cause May’s advisers at least to try to make her meetings not look like BNP gatherings. But evidently they have decided it is more important to continue to prioritise the racist vote. The are banking on it being all white on election night.

    May meets nobody except ardent Tories or those in no position to argue – employees of companies in their workplace or tenants. It is appalling abuse of power.

    May is simply refusing to participate in democracy – which involves candidates being open to question and debate. There is really little point in having an election of this kind. Which presumably explains this question being asked in YouGove’s current political poll.

    It is all extraordinarily sad, and I suppose the saddest thing of all is media complicity in this non-election – of which the latest and dreadful example is STV’s decision to exclude the Green Party from the Scottish leadership debate.

  126. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Lovely Scottish tory boost from Graun tonight. That crew really want FM Davidson so much, it must be hurting them.

    “Scottish Conservatives plot return from brink of political oblivion

    Tory leader Ruth Davidson’s sense of humour and PR skills lead party to hope it can achieve breakthrough in June”

    Saturday 29 April 2017 20.27 BST

    “One of Scotland’s best-known historians, Sir Tom Devine of the University of Edinburgh, said the opinion polls seemed to suggest there was a revival. “This is due to a combination of two variables: the implosion of Labour and undeniably a part of the Scottish population that is root-and-branch opposed to a Scottish referendum.”

    All due respect to Sir Tom but he’s hardly the Scots politics go to, even for Graun tory shysters on the vote tory warpath.

  127. Arbroath1320
    Ignored
    says:

    Thought I’d leave this here.

    Here is footage of the “gracious” meeting on Saturday between the Gauleiter Davidson and her “glorious” Fascist leader Feartie McFeartie. I must pay a huge amount of praise to our undercover camerawoman who managed, at great risk to her own life I may add, this secret footage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5hHsEsV-b8&index=1&list=PL_YsDefWZXiEae06rHLA5gQYkWW5tfKJr

  128. Jockanese Wind Talker
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye @Thepnr says at 12:14 am

    “The Brexiteers are coming, they want everything and are determined to get what they want. We must have none of it.”

    There was a time that it was ‘If you tolerate this then your children will be next’

    But this Neo Fascist revival has accelerated and now it is more apt to say:

    “If you tolerate this then you are next.”

    Sad but true.

    We are now where the world was in the mid 1930s (Spain and Cable Street 1936).

    The choice facing the UK is clear stand against the Fascists or let the UK evolve into Hitler’s Germany.

    Where is the FREE PRESS??

  129. Jockanese Wind Talker
    Ignored
    says:

    then openly with EVEL.

    But still they haven’t put down us Vile Separatists.

    GE2015 highlighted their irrelevance in Scotland.

    Now it is Defend the Union to the Last Man/Woman, Last Bullet.

    They are to my mind the last dregs in the Unionist Barrel.

    Think of the photos of the last days of WWII Germany, young kids and old guys being sent to take on the Russians in the ruins of Berlin.

    That’s where the Unionists are now.

    The old and the naive pushed on by the bloated Party Members who now have to get into the trenches, like Blair McDougal ‘cos no one else is left.

    Ably protected by The BBC and an MSM (who Joseph Goebbels couldn’t have envisaged in his wettest dream).

    Now Der Fuhrer May and her Scotch Gauleiter tRuthless Davidson try to tell the country (UK) they’ve ruined with Brexit that they are winning great victories against those ‘Europeans’

    God Save the Queen and her Fascist Regime.

    Tick, Tock.

    As the Animals sang, We Gotta Get out of This Place (if it’s the last thing we ever do…).

  130. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    R5 Live coverage of Trump’s speech in Pennsylvania right now – perfect soundtrack for this thread.

  131. Still Positive
    Ignored
    says:

    This is really frightening and I don’t want to be a part of it.

    I fear for my children and my grandchildren if we go down this route.

  132. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    British nationalism is ideological in nature, so lacks empathy to the semiotic forces influencing our perception of meaning. It also lacks the structural flexibility to accommodate changing real-world circumstances and evolution in social attitudes.

    Fascism is less a rational or logical theory of ideas than it is a recipe for power and political opportunism. Fascism emerged in the context of post-World War I economic difficulties and social crisis and articulated a rejection of liberalism and parliamentary rule as ‘failures’. It also articulated a rejection of communism as a further direct threat to the middle class groups that had felt severely the impact of those economic and social difficulties. In their places, fascism emphasized ‘strong’ leadership, appealing to a long tradition of autocracy prior to recent and allegedly ‘failed’ democratic regimes. The ideology is nationalist, authoritarian, militaristic, (somewhat) socialist and action-based rather than theory-based. War, expansionism and totalitarian controls of the populace are all justifiable in terms of power. Under Hitler, fascism acquired elements of racism and ‘scapegoating’ that in neo-fascist expressions are often directed against immigrants or refugees.

    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Political_Theory/Ideologies_of_Government

  133. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    @Still Positive

    Stay positive, we will not be going down this route. The Scottish people will get the message and come to their senses.

    We will have a referendum in the not too distant future and the vote will be YES at least i think so. Ever the optimist me.

    Stuff like this article can only make it more likely, there is no way in a million years that Scots would put up with a Dictator.

    No, stay calm. Just do what you can to convince others, I think we will get there. At least we have to try and not be afraid.

    Be strong xx and hugs 🙂

  134. ian murray
    Ignored
    says:

    I wouldn’t say Crathes is remote but Bear Gryllis had to give up filming the sequel to The Island it was to desolate
    And yet
    A few years ago 2 sodgers walked out of the forest, they were commandos that got lost doing a survival course from W.W.2

  135. Meg merrilees
    Ignored
    says:

    I think I should offer to let T May use my 6″ x 10′ Greenhouse for her next campaign meeting in Scotland. My garden is completely walled in and she could sneak through the garage to get there. It’s got two chairs and a small table in there and the TV cameras could film her through the glass and nobody would know where she was.

    Any news on whether there will be any follow up on the fact that Crathes Debating Union was booked for a children’s party and clause 4 terms and conditions of hiring the hall says “it has to be used for the purpose for which it was hired” i.e. “children’s party”

    The eagle-eyed among us will have noticed there were some children in the audience. Do you think they were told to play some games and pretend they were at a a party? Or were they the members of the Conservative and Unionist CHILDREN’S PARTY – got it! ha ha, of course. That explains it!
    And did you also notice she’s playing tRuthless’s game now – it’s THeresa May’s party.

    Also, they needed extra permission to provide refreshments and a trawl around the twitter sphere tonight revealed that the journalists were there from 5.30 this morning and were not provided with any food or drink. Churnalists also pissed off because she repeated the same speech she used in Leeds.

    To quote Wille Rennie: ‘Does she think we button up the back?

    Condescending, arrogant Mugwump.

  136. Meg merrilees
    Ignored
    says:

    How about this one?

    Govt delays state pension age rise announcement until after the election despite law which says “report must be published before 7 May 2017”

    Paul Lewis, Money Programme.

  137. Sandy
    Ignored
    says:

    Re May’s ‘meeting with the people’.
    A couple of years ago or so, a certain person by the name of Cameron, visited the ETAP platform in the Scottish sector of the North Sea. How many workers did he meet? Apart from one or two selected in the control room, none. All staff shepherded away, just in case. Waste of money, waste of time, & waste of a seat on a chopper.

  138. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Joseph Goebbels couldn’t have envisaged in his wettest dream”

    (Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of PIGS!)
    Joseph Goebbels

    Peace Always My Friend

  139. Al Dossary
    Ignored
    says:

    When Burnett was elected to holyrood, I sid some digging around his home turf so to speak. In and around the area there are in excess of 1500 “retirement” villages / communities / homes.

    Add to these numbers the amount of executive housing that there construction company has build in the last 10 years or so and you have the reason that that plank of wood got voted in at holyrood.

    Probably it is the biggest case of Gerrymandering we have seen in Scotland for many a year.

    Just think, he has his own “Rotten Borough” and has hastened a return to the time when the local landowner would ferry his workers down to vote in his desired direction.

  140. Al Dossary
    Ignored
    says:

    When Burnett was elected to holyrood, I sid some digging around his home turf so to speak. In and around the area there are in excess of 1500 “retirement” voters in villages / communities / homes.

    Add to these numbers the amount of executive housing that there construction company has build in the last 10 years or so and you have the reason that that plank of wood got voted in at holyrood.

    Probably it is the biggest case of Gerrymandering we have seen in Scotland for many a year.

    Just think, he has his own “Rotten Borough” and has hastened a return to the time when the local landowner would ferry his workers down to vote in his desired direction.

  141. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Germany may have lost the war but the Fascists survive to this day, not Neo-Fascists, the same old Fascism that brought death and destruction to millions of people.

    Hitler used to have a forest hide-out that he named the “Wolfs Lair” is T.May house or lair hunting with Ruth Braun?

    Peace Always

  142. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    I posted this in OT by mistake.

    “No decent person wants to live in a society that works according to Darwinian laws. . . . A Darwinian society would be a fascist state.” – Richard Dawkins

    https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/10/logic-v-intelli.html (different source)

  143. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    The Effects of Charles Darwin on Imperial Policy

    Introduction

    The age of imperialism in Europe reached its peak in the years between 1850 and 1950. During this time nations such as Great Britain controlled vast regions of the globe and exerted their dominion over the conquered peoples of their territories. In order to justify their control of the colonial population, Europeans had for centuries stated that the colonial population was subhuman and therefore needed to be controlled by the more intelligent Europeans. However, this changed in the second half of the nineteenth century with the publication of On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin. The publication, though attacked for its opposing stance to the church and the bible, was soon employed as a “scientific” explanation for the dominance of Europeans. Since Darwinism became a major justification for racism and imperialism, especially by fascist governments, such as Hitler’s Germany, it is important to understand the reasoning behind much of it. In terms of historiography, it is important to note that Darwin himself did not have any involvement in the creation of the various interpretations of his theories, therefore he should not be blamed for the numerous human rights abuses justified using those interpretations.

    http://blogs.bu.edu/guidedhistory/moderneurope/evan-r/

  144. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    Ever wondered why England might think it’s entitled to tell Scotland what her position in the world will be?

    The Effects of Charles Darwin on Imperial Policy

    Introduction

    The age of imperialism in Europe reached its peak in the years between 1850 and 1950. During this time nations such as Great Britain controlled vast regions of the globe and exerted their dominion over the conquered peoples of their territories. In order to justify their control of the colonial population, Europeans had for centuries stated that the colonial population was subhuman and therefore needed to be controlled by the more intelligent Europeans. However, this changed in the second half of the nineteenth century with the publication of On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin. The publication, though attacked for its opposing stance to the church and the bible, was soon employed as a “scientific” explanation for the dominance of Europeans. Since Darwinism became a major justification for racism and imperialism, especially by fascist governments, such as Hitler’s Germany, it is important to understand the reasoning behind much of it. In terms of historiography, it is important to note that Darwin himself did not have any involvement in the creation of the various interpretations of his theories, therefore he should not be blamed for the numerous human rights abuses justified using those interpretations.

    http://blogs.bu.edu/guidedhistory/moderneurope/evan-r/

  145. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Arbroath, thanks for that, Janey Godley brilliant, as for the fake knees-up, seen a cheerier crowd at Daldowie!

  146. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Is it just me? Or is the big story of the week getting sidelined?

    I’m talking about Scotland’s new Social Security Agency that is set to kick ATOS out on its arse and prevent private companies assessing people’s disabilities and fitness for work for profit.

  147. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    Smallaxe at 4.42 hits the nail on the head.

    Neo fascism, ‘Alt right’, give it whatever name you wish really. It’s My tribe right or wrong. Exclusion, exceptionalism based on whatever criteria the exponents dream up for their tribe. It’s mindless hatred pure and simple. It is also a home for the fearful, ill informed, the gullible, the directionless, those filled with rage and pain who need a target to take it all out on. The very things they accuse the YES movement of in point of fact, but then they are past masters of projection and deflection.

    It is also a political tool for those who are beyond flags and empathy. Y’know, the truly evil bastirts.

    The truly evil know exactly how to use these lost people. They know how to direct them in order to divide and rule. ‘Course it helps if you have access to compliant and politically compromised mass media control. With the right tools and the right message you can even bring on board normally reasonable, moderate caring human beings. People who won’t realise what they have become, what their society is becoming until it is far too late. Until their actions face them in their own livingrooms, or their own mirrors.

    For those looking to tell the difference between Westminster/Unionist media narrative and the Scottish government/YES movement, ask yourself a few pertinent questions.

    How many countries have the Scottish government invaded?
    How many economies have the Scottish government crashed?
    How many policies abusive of the poor, the infirm, the furren and the powerless have the Scottish government passed into legislation?
    How many refugees have the Scottish Government turned away?
    How many overseas nationals have the Scottish government placed under threat of deportation?
    How many riots have the YES movement started?
    How many unprovoked violent acts or acts of naked intimidation?

    You could probably add quite a few more questions to that list, but you get the drift.

    When words aren’t quite enough to convince. When the meeja has your head so turned with spin you don’t know who or what to believe. Pay attention to the world around you, to action and reaction.

    When you’ve truthfully answered even that small list of questions I’ve posted, you should be able to tell who the real bad guys are and where the very real threat to your freedoms and rights comes from.

  148. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    Probably also worth noting in light of the events of the past two years particularly. LANGUAGE!

    Look very carefully at the language used by both governments, the media and the campaigns. Pay attention to how they speak, communicate with the world at large and communicate their message to you.

    Just sayin’.

  149. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Hysterical ‘Blair Witch’ territory. Or is that a pseudonym for Teresa May. A clue is in the code.

    17 miles from third biggest City in Scotland. 1/2million pop. Approx 1/4 million in the City. 1/4 million in the Shire.

    Burnett childish Party from 10-17hours. A bit long. The Tories always on the take. Taking food from the mouth’s of babes. £13 a month. No taking the 33,000 displace, vulnerable children. Illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Destroying the world. Wasting a Trns of public money which could be saved or better spent. An international public disgrace. Not nice but dim. May will have to think again,

    Will Willy Young finally get his comeuppance. Be investigated. After numerous complaints. If there is any justice. Illegally sold the City on the stock market. Spent £Billion on grotesque projects of little value, vandalising the City. Cut funding for essential services. 130 teachers short. Willy is the last resort propped up by a green deputy. Reneging on all green policies. Elected with 600 votes to stop the essential road. Against the majority and the public interest.

    The illegally high Tory Oil sector tax 40%. More Oil & Gas has to be imported. Putting up the deficit and the debt. ACC taxpayer’s now paying back debt to the stock exchange for years. A public disgrace. Willy Young, the green and associates have short changed the City. They have refused a Gift of £80Million which would have transformed, renovated and pedestrianised the City Centre. The Priject was by the majority and in the public interest. To stop the City Centre decay and bring more visitors to the City Centre. Cut the pollution and traffic chaos. The emissions the worst in the UK.

    May now hanging about a green hut on the periphery. A laughing stock. The stock exchange tax evading with impunity. The UK Law is not enforced by the Westminster tax evaders and their associates. Wasting £Trns of public money. Borrowing and spending like there is no tomorrow on worthless projects. When there are more credible alternatives. Cutting funds for essential services. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The ones who support the Union tax evade with impunity and break the rules. Westminster unionist make the Law and break the Law. There was electoral fraud in 31 Tory constituencies. May called the election to cover up the fraud. Imagine the choice May, Corbyn, Farron or Lucas. Scotland has the SNP to stand up for Scotland. Another Indy Ref on the way.

    The terraces are empty. The authorities were letting paedophiles run the Clubs. Criminals. Rejects swept under the carpet. Littered with abuse and money laundering. £Billion of public/private money has been spent funding the criminality and abuse. It is not only a game. It is a public disgrace. A tax evasion abusive paradise where criminals run the Clubs. The ones who laundered enough public money win. Gain more public money. Private companies fiddling the public purse. Cheats on steroids. Tax evading prima donnas The punters lose and the game deteriorates. Not a good roll model.

  150. pool9
    Ignored
    says:

    Macart is right.

    Scotland is a harbour.

    Not a pier.

    The language that is being used in this election is dangerous.

    But ours is not.

    The language of Scotland. Of alba. Of this place our home.

    Others want to say danger, to say violence, to say fear.

    I believe that we say hope, we say friendship, we say basta! Enough! We stand up.

    Stand.

    Thank you Macart.

  151. Muscleguy
    Ignored
    says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Topical? No. It is relevant only to the history of ideas. Fine if you are into such things but the fact remains that Evolution is true. These days only creationists call it Darwinism, us Biologists don’t. I generally here it referred to as Natural Selection since that is the bit relevant to genes and phenotypes.

    Can you be someone who accepts the truth of Evolution and a socialist? Why not? It is still, just about, respectable in Biology to research group selection and it is an obvious fact that Homo sapiens is a social ape. No other great ape tolerates the size and density of societies, including non related individuals that humans do.

    This idea that Evolution mandates individualism is hokum, Dawkins deals with it an the end of The Selfish Gene and in later books. I also don’t care about Alfred Russel Wallace’s politics. He was right on Natural Selection, everything else is of no relevance to anything which matters today unless you are a descendant and into that sort of thing.

    Wallace was a working man, he earned his living collecting and preserving specimens and selling them to gentleman Naturalists like Mr Darwin. So it is clear that the truth of Evolution is and was available despite different social and political backgrounds. Darwin came from a long line of Whigs.

  152. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a thing, I’ve been watching some of Labour’s political events, and in particular the gaggle of ‘press photographers’ who seem desperate to get pictures of Jeremy Corbyn.

    Are some of those ‘photographers’ fake. That is, just party folk standing with big cameras, pretending to ‘jostle’ for a picture. Of course some real press are present, but do they fake a ‘media scrum’ with party stooges? To make it seem his importance (or media interest) is greater than it is?

    Next time he is out and about, don’t look at Corbyn, look at the supposed press photographers. Some are real, but others…hmmm?

    Just asking the question. I think it certainly looks like it.

  153. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    Muscleguy
    As usual, you miss my point completely. I’m talking about the cultural origins underlying the principles of fascism and imperialism and how that might be relevant to Scotland today, not the science of biology.

  154. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    LINKS!

    http://www.thehighlandtimes.com/news/2017/04/27/mundell-sinks-tories-on-fishing/

    PM accused of ‘hiding from public’ again after Scottish forest event
    http://archive.is/IMwXK

    BBC smears BDS, fails to disclose interviewee’s Israel advocacy role
    http://archive.is/6YJ7r

    Peace Always

  155. pool9
    Ignored
    says:

    Muscleguy@7.55

    Nice. Clear, structured, direct.

    I tip my hat to you and go in search of more information.

    I hope Cameron replies.

  156. CameonB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    Muscleguy
    As your such a fucking star in biology, care to enplane how logic and pragmatic reason are linked to biology through semiotics?

  157. Ian McCubbin
    Ignored
    says:

    This is worrying. We need to declare independence now. Why can’t the SNP see this. Abit ll that everyone says in this post points to that. We have the mandate and if SNP loses any seats in WM media will claim Scotland no longer has.
    Mays election call makes it harder for SNP and all of us who want democracy.

  158. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    Muscleguy
    You may have missed the news that publication of publicly funded social science research projects are on hold until after the election? They might influence opinion, or some such.

    I’m standing up for science.

  159. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    ken500

    who are these green councillors in aberdeen you keep railing against?

  160. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    pool9
    I do hope that was sufficient response.

  161. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘We have the mandate and if SNP loses any seats in WM media will claim Scotland no longer has’

    That’s the way the British Establishment and the Yoon media want you to think. It is just pure propaganda bollocks, but then that’s all they have.

    The mandate Scotland has comes from Holyrood, everything else is just is smoke and mirrors, meaningless crap. They are just trying to brainwash us, all you have to do is, not let them.

  162. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    LINKS!

    http://nicholaswilson.com/hsbc-agm-2017/

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/858041657924743168

    All the Plenary’s Men
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gK3s5j7PgA
    56 Minutes of Sunday viewing! Enlightening video about “BANKING” prosecutions or rather the lack of such! HSBC: FSA.ETC. and our very own “Generous” George Osborne

    Peace Always

  163. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Almannysbunnet says: 30 April, 2017 at 12:03 am:

    “You think that’s bad, check out what this guy is suggesting.
    Or, the more radical way, you combine organic and inorganic parts – perhaps directly connecting brains and computers.
    The rich – through purchasing such biological enhancements – could become, literally, better than the rest; more intelligent, healthier and with far greater life-spans.”

    I wouldn’t worry about it, Almannysbunnet.

    Today around the World there are people sitting in their bedrooms and some or other of them will be breaking into the most secure of systems throughout the World.

    So these rich guys with electronic enhancements will be prime targets for such scams as, “phishing”, or malicious Trojan or Back-door attacks. Only a few minutes ago I was reading a text service, “Technology News”, report.

    The heading was GOOGLE & FACEBOOK DUPED BY HUGH, “SCAM”.

    Two international companies fell victim to an alleged £77million scam. In March a Lithuanian man had been charged over an email phishing scam against, “Two US-Based Internet companies”, but these were not named at that time.

    The claim was they had been tricked into mailing $100Million to the scammers bank account. On 27 April it was revealed the two companies were Facebook & Google.

    Who would be stupid enough to actually go through with getting electronic brain implants when some teenage, “Script Kiddie”, in a back bedroom could mess with their heads for the sheer hell of it?

    Have you ever had a computer or mobile on-line connected device that did not require regular update downloads? When did you ever own a computer or mobile device that you did not have to update or scrap when it got out-of-date as technology advanced?

    Just imagine a back-door virus or Trojan striking those enhanced reality brain implants and the entire rich elite getting infected overnight?

  164. Liz Rannoch
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Smallaxe

    Thanks for the links. I take it Nana is not feeling bright eyed and bushy tailed? Please send her love & hugs and tell her to take it easy – nae ironing! That link to Angus Robertson will be used.

    I see TREEsa is on Marr @ 9am and Peston @ 10am. So are either of them live? Can she defend any of this:

    infogr.am/theresa_may_judged_on_record

    don’t know if that’s right – took out the http thingy and the // but no www – hmmm?

  165. Cuilean
    Ignored
    says:

    Polls don’t record public opinion.

    They are a political tool, employed by the establishment, to create public opinion.

    When are we going to realise this?

  166. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Liz Rannoch:

    Hi, Liz, Good morning, Nana is resting and spending time with her friends and Family and recuperating from the illness that she tried to come back too early from.

    I will try to keep you informed Liz.

    Peace Always

  167. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Liz Rannoch – the infogram link works fine. Great way to illustrate dire stats. Should be circulated far and wide, especially in England where it is more relevant as it doesn’t do separate Scottish health and education stats. Nevertheless, makes scary reading for the Tories.

  168. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m closely watching the re-runs of “Secret Army” on TV.

    It looks like we will need to copy the Belgian Resistance
    in their fight to free their nation from Fascist Occupation

    Goebbels Davidson would be in her element in her military occupied zone formally known as Scotland.

    Unfortunately I can clearly see Adam Tomkins in a leather coat impersonation Herr Flick from “Hello Hello”

  169. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Breeks says: 30 April, 2017 at 7:16 am:

    “Is it just me? Or is the big story of the week getting sidelined”?

    No, Breeks, it isn’t just you. I would guess that even some Wingers didn’t know about that good news item – never mind the rest of the Scottish electorate.

  170. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Times poll is fascinating. Normal question…

    45% Yes 55% No

    However, they have three options too …

    41% Indy + Eu
    10% Indy + Out of Eu
    48% UK + Out of Eu

    A lot going on.

    1. Ask a question differently, and you’ll get a different answer

    2. The underlying ‘willing to vote’ Yes is above 50%

    3. Some voters won’t risk Indy without the EU

    4. Some voters dislike the EU so much that they want to leave under any circumstances

    I think these results are good news because Brexit options will look much worse as we move forward.

    Also, the EU is clearly not a simple in/out issue! If the UK stays in the single market Indy if off the agenda again (unlikely outcome).

  171. John H
    Ignored
    says:

    I read a book recently about the American Ambassador to Berlin, appointed just as Hitler came to power. At first he and his family thought that the nazis they met were decent people. Slowly however, their opinions started to change, and we all know what happened next.

    We are not there yet, but Theresa May has obviously got no time for parliament or even the House of Lords. She has surrounded herself with extremists and yes men. It would be so easy to slip over the edge, for democracy is a fragile thing.
    _________

    In The Garden of Beasts by Erik Larson.

  172. ronnie anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/858424262432104449

    I wonder how many doors they knocked in Crathes yesterday

  173. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ ronnie anderson – the answer is 4, but nobody answered the door.

    (from Stu’s twitter)
    https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/858400163278225408

  174. Famous15
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruth Davidson interviewing Theresa May was chilling on so many levels. To see her as Goebbels is however harsh.

    To see Professor Adam Tomkins as Herr Flick in “Allo,Allo” is however hilariously,incisivly,observatinally,tea splutteringly ,perfect.What leather coat?

  175. Val Dobson
    Ignored
    says:

    As I was reminding everybody on Twitter yesterday, this question is part of an ongoing global survey on social atitudes that has been conducted by the World Values Survey since 1995; the reason that YouGov is running it is that they contract out the survey-taking to national polling agencies.
    <a href="http://politicsir.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/politicsir.anu.edu.au/files/world-values-survey-2012-questionnaire.pdf"Here's a sample of their questionaire (PDF) that was conducted in Australia in 2012 – scroll to page 13 and you’ll find the exact same question.
    So please could everyone kindly remove their tinfoil hats now? You’re blocking the view.

  176. Val Dobson
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry Stu, I know I fogot to use the preview, so messed up the formatting.
    If you’re going to kill me, use chocolate. Pretty please?

  177. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    John H says:

    It would be so easy to slip over the edge, for democracy is a fragile thing.

    Indeed. Especially in the UK where the term ‘democracy’ can only be applied very loosely.

    The WM FPTP system allows people to become MPs when up to 75% of votes cast in their constituencies were against them.

    It also allows governments to gain a majority of seats and grab power when up to 65% of votes cast rejected them.

    The upper chamber has seats reserved for clergy. Only also found in Iran.

    It is one aspect of the EU which has always mystified me … why did they ever allow such an undemocratic country to become/remain a member!?

    The transition from sub-democracy to dictatorship is a much smaller step in the UK than other modern western countries.

  178. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    The election was a surprise and the Tories were out of the running blocks first and had an initial surge but I think they are flagging already.

    Ruth struggles with the 3rd child clause and the Tories are clearly uncomfortable with meeting the public. However, to try and say on TV there are complex reasons why people go to food banks when you own £1,000 leather jeans is to be so detached from reality as to be laughable. It is also hugely insulting. I think what she said was Tory code for “undeserving scroungers” or quite possible “let them eat cake”. May Antoinette?

    I think the reason they are limiting May’s exposure in public, in debates and at events like Crathes is because any time in the spotlight will undermine their campaign.

  179. Dr Ew
    Ignored
    says:

    Presumably some body commissioned YouGov to ask the question.

    Who?

  180. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Liz Rannoch says: 30 April, 2017 at 8:50 am:

    ” … infogr.am/theresa_may_judged_on_record
    don’t know if that’s right – took out the http thingy and the // but no www – hmmm?”

    Hi Liz: I’ve not read further down so do not know if others have explained.

    It is only for YouTube links that the http bit needs to be removed. For all other links just cut and paste the whole link including the httl:// bit.

    Mind you those of us who know how it works just type the http:// bit back in to get to the link.

    It is a very handy bit of data to copy and print out. Thank you.

  181. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella says:
    30 April, 2017 at 9:47 am
    @ ronnie anderson – the answer is 4, but nobody answered the door.

    The were all still being held hostage in the village hall as punishment for not clapping or smiling hard enough. Some of the ring leaders might now be facing transportation to the colonies.

  182. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Liz Rannoch:

    Your link;
    https://infogr.am/theresa_may_judged_on_record

    Peace Always

  183. ronnie anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Capella They 4 hooses will be the second homes & the owners ur still down sarf.

  184. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    @HandandShrimp

    “Tories were out of the running blocks first and had an initial surge but I think they are flagging already.”

    I’d agree with that, I hope they’ll be disappointed in their Scotland results both in the Council and General elections.

    Fingers crossed, would love to see Ruth brought down a peg or two.

  185. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 8:26 am
    ken500

    who are these green councillors in aberdeen you keep railing against?

    Most famous one was the Green councillor that blocked Trump golf at Balmedi. I know I don’t have to tell you just how much of a mess that became and giant club with which to batter the whole YES Scotland movement.

    ACC councillors had local people at their doors, rather angry at the Green decision to block The Donald

    Trump golf is still in the tory UKOK media bag of big vote NO you deluded nutters bag, especially likes of the Scotland democracy loathing Graun.

    http://archive.is/nJk2X

    Despite the bitter opposition of all Scotland’s environment agencies and charities, Scottish government ministers, who were backed by local business and council leaders, decided the scheme was of national importance. In November 2008 they ruled that this allowed Trump to bulldoze through a third of the Foveran dunes complex, a legally protected site of special scientific interest (SSSI), and breach the council’s structural plans, which defined Menie as green belt land.”

    There are over a dozen golf clubs on Scottish SSSI’s but none are owned by Trump, so they’re never mentioned.

    “Martin Ford, a Scottish Green party councillor, whose casting vote on Aberdeenshire’s planning committee against the resort in 2007 forced Trump to appeal to the Scottish government, said: “From the start, Mr Trump has in turn either bullied or ignored the Scottish planning system. The promised investment in the large hotel and resort elements has not materialised, nor the jobs. The north-east has got the worst of all possible worlds. The amazing dune system at Menie has been lost to development, the jobs and economic benefits promised have not materialised.”

    Then we come to ACC and the AWPR, a SLab/Tory catastrofuck of epic proportions, much of the blocks to the AWPR Green but effectively tory money.

  186. Phronesis
    Ignored
    says:

    The PM should be answering questions of Big Politics- such as how will population well-being be sustained given WM scant regard for tackling inequality and poverty. They might seem rather abstract concepts about the feckless poor until you realise that the consequences extend to the shrinking middle classes who are also buckling under the pressure;

    ‘Living in poverty shouldn’t mean losing your life. Going through difficult times, like losing your job or being in debt, shouldn’t mean not wanting to live. But that is what’s happening in the UK and Ireland today…Effective collaboration across central and local government and all the local agencies which play a role will be crucial. This must include welfare, education, housing, employment, health and finance. Improving the lives of people from lower income groups will save lives and untold costs for families, communities, workplaces and the economy. In this report, ‘socioeconomic disadvantage’ may refer to an individual, group (eg, family) or community (especially defined geographically). Being ‘socioeconomically disadvantaged’ means living in a situation of relatively more unfavourable social and economic circumstances than others (individuals, groups or communities) in the same society.

    Features of socioeconomic disadvantage include low income, unmanageable debt, poor housing conditions, lack of educational qualifications, unemployment and living in a socioeconomically deprived area. Societal Suicide risk increases during periods of economic recession, particularly when recessions are associated with a steep rise in unemployment, and this risk remains high when crises end’

    http://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Samaritans%20Dying%20from%20inequality%20report%20-%20summary%281%29.pdf

    Perhaps the Conservatives don’t really believe in a strong and stable society. That would require a democracy underpinned by a strong commitment to human rights for all its citizens and not only a few entitled individuals. If there was a human rights impact statement underpinning policy (SG moving in that direction) there would be no dereliction of the welfare state. The world is watching the UK trash its own reputation politically and isn’t the UK political establishment coming across as a bully with its intemperate delusional statements about its own importance in the world. Who would look to UKOK for lessons in contemporary democracy- the world is looking to Scotland.

    ‘The ECHR has long been the object of anger and derision from right-wing British media and politicians, for example for ruling in favour of due process even when dealing with murderous jihadis; or extending the right to vote to certain categories of prisoners. May strongly objected to ECHR rulings while Home Secretary and can be expected to include leaving the ECHR in the mandate she is seeking in the June 8 general election.

    The consequences of leaving the ECHR must be made absolutely clear during that campaign. In particular, it would fundamentally undermine the 1998 Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement which relies on the ECHR to provide safeguards to all Northern Ireland’s communities.

    References to the Belfast Agreement in the UK White Paper are limited to devolution issues and cross-border citizenship rights. There is no mention of the ECHR.
    With the ongoing erosion of British parliamentary democracy, an overbearing executive and mounting attacks on the independence of the judiciary, the fight to maintain UK participation in the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms will become central in the Brexit battle both on the home front and in Brussels’

    https://www.socialeurope.eu/2017/04/the-echr-and-eu-uk-relations/

  187. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @galamcennalath says: 30 April, 2017 at 9:19 am:

    “Times poll is fascinating. Normal question…”

    “4. Some voters dislike the EU so much that they want to leave under any circumstances.”

    Nah! They are the ones who are either quite stupid or are those most susceptible to Westminster Establishment propaganda.

    Most of these numpties are just too dim to realise that Westminster is an evil, manipulative and greedy Establishment while the EU is a real democratic organisation and works by consensus.

    For heaven’s sake every member state in the EU gets their, “Buggin’s Turn”, to provide the EU Presidency.

    and I quote:-

    The Presidency of the Council of the European Union is responsible for the functioning of the Council of the European Union, (the upper house of the EU legislature).

    It rotates among the member states of the EU every six months. The presidency is not an individual, but rather the position is held by a national government. It is sometimes incorrectly referred to as the President of the European Union.

    The presidency’s function is to chair meetings of the Council, determine its agendas, set a work programme and facilitate dialogue both at Council meetings and with other EU institutions. The presidency is currently (as of January 2017) held by Malta.

    .
    .
    That is certain proof that the EU works by consensus and in no way comes even close to the dictatorial and excessively tight grasp of the Scottish purse strings of the Westminster Establishment.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of the truth.

    BTW: ignorance is not the same thing as stupid. It may be due to everything from laziness to think things out, failure to research the truth, to sopping up lies and propaganda like a sponge.

    The problem with that last option is that many Yoons tend to ignore logic, “and blindly go where no man one has gone before”,. These last also wouldn’t know a split infinitive if it bit their bum.

  188. ronnie anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    Andrew Neil { we never take what a Politician says in this country at face value but we except what the Eu politicians say} .

    Naw ya blue Ligger Tory you & your ilk promote what they say as the gospel truth.

  189. Feel_loon
    Ignored
    says:

    OT
    Ruthie just fell for the wings parody twitter accounts
    Tweet deleted now

  190. ebreah
    Ignored
    says:

    Greetings from Malaysia. I am going out on a limb here and say that Jeremy Corbyn actually has a chance in this election. He may not be elected PM but he will not lose much of his MPs. Maybe Labour will be returned with around 180-210 MPs.

    As the campaigning period progresses on, I think a lot of people, those don’t knows especially, will see Theresa May for what she is; the exact opposition of what she is trying to portray. And people will also see, Jeremy Corbyn is not as bad as the media portrays. Add the Lib Dem to the mix, I think the Tories are in for a bit of a shock at the very least. Well at least in England.

    In Scotland, I hope the SNP are aiming for a clean sweep. I know it may sound impossible but it is possible. At the very least, no Tories in Scotland.

    This is already the end game. We are at the last bend. This Malaysian will support the all of you and cause to its fruition.

    p/s: Keep in mind, Leicester City won the EPL on far worse odds. If they can do it, anything is possible.

  191. Liz Rannoch
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Smallaxe

    Thanks Smallaxe

    @ Capella

    I’m glad it worked. I’m not on Twitter or Facebook so can’t get it out there. Hoping others on here may do so.

    @ Robert Peffers

    Aah! That sound you hear is the penny dropping! Thanks.

    You learn something new everyday on here, hugs to all.

  192. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    heed

    except ken500 blamed the scottish greens for the carbuncle being built in aberdeen city centre

    um…….there are no greens in aberdeen city council

    when “Martin Ford, a Scottish Green party councillor, blocked the menie golf course…….he was a lib dem councillor

    he joined the greens for a short time but because he is a rabid yoon, he has since formed an alliance with the Democratic Independent and Green councillor Paul Johnston, who is also a yoon and nothing to do with the Scottish Green party?

    If an independent yoon stands as under a banner of Democratic independent and Scottish Socialist, will you then blame colin fox for his actions????

  193. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    it would appear that neither ken500 or heed know the difference between

    aberdeen city council ACC and aberdeenshire council AC

  194. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 11:38 am
    it would appear that neither ken500 or heed know the difference between

    Wondered how long before you scoped that SC:D

  195. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    personally, i think the marschall square developement in aberdeen is a ACC conspiracy mounted by moonie and shape changing lizard alien cooncillors in GCC 🙂

  196. Legerwood
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks says:
    30 April, 2017 at 7:16 am
    “”Is it just me? Or is the big story of the week getting sidelined?

    I’m talking about Scotland’s new Social Security Agency that is set to kick ATOS out on its arse and prevent private companies assessing people’s disabilities and fitness for work for profit.””

    ……….

    I think it is more than just the decision to bar ATOS from having anything to do with Social Security Agency that is being ignored.

    The UK Government is also delaying a report on the pension age until after the General Election despite a legal requirement to publish by 7th May.

    I am sure it would be of interest to those in Scotland, and elsewhere, who are approaching retirement, or think they are.

    https://www.ft.com/content/625e3b48-2c0b-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7

  197. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    well heed
    if you freely admit you are deliberately lying and spreading confusion on these threads, why should anyone believe anything you post in future?

  198. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 11:38 am
    it would appear that neither ken500 or heed know the difference between

    aberdeen city council ACC and aberdeenshire council AC

    A lot of the Aberdeen issues underlying this ACC and AC mix SC is that AC offices are just up the road from ACC’s, ACC are in their £100+ million renovated Marischal College, leased from Uni of Aberdeen and AC’s HQ’s up Foresterhill.

    So underlying the AC and ACC policy and spend, is the mix of Green, SLab, tory in both councils.

  199. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    ACC councillors had local people at their doors, rather angry at the Green decision to block The Donald

    another lie, it was the libdems who blocked it in the shape of their leader Martin Ford

  200. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    and it wasnt ACC it was Aberdeenshire council

  201. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    bollox heed

    ACC councillors dont vote on issues in AC and vice versa

    dont know why you and ken are deliberately lying to disseminate confusion and discord in the yes movement, but stop it

  202. chris kilby
    Ignored
    says:

    What the actual fuck!?!

  203. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Even if the Tories only retain their one seat in Scotland you know they’ll still claim Scotland still wants to be part of the Union so shut up and go away you horrible Scroaty Jocks

    Nothing will make one iota of difference to the Tories at Westminster about Scotland because they couldn’t give a toss about us, we have one power and one power only and that’s to convince the EU by returning as many SNP MPs as possible to show the EU we want nothing to do with the full English Brexit so that Mrs May and her chums are rejected by the EU if they try to use Scottish assets as part of her UK negotiation sell outs

    The United Nations charter contains support for all peoples right to self determination as decided by constitutional methods, nowhere does it say another country has the right to block that process
    The UN has also declared the UK rape clause as “inhumane”

    Just thought I’d mention that, so make of it what you will
    but it doesn’t sound as if the UN is gleeful over Mrs May and her chums, and another wee aside, Scotlands First Minister was just there a couple of weeks ago addressing the UN and they seemed to rather take to her, quite a lot I’m told

    Does anyone think that was a coincidence, I don’t!

    We might not have a very big stick but I have a feeling other folk will be happy to volunteer a wee lend of theirs

  204. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    lastly heed

    i was a member of snp bon accord branch for 15 years before moving to fife, i was out campaigning, canvassing and leafleting in aberdeen for snp cooncillors when you and ken still though the fuckin spice girls were pretty cool, so dont teach yer grunnie tae suck eggs

  205. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    Finally, Peston asks the prime minister about her three favourite recipes listed in her Mail on Sunday interview (Yottam Ottolenghi’s marinated rack of lamb with coriander and honey, Sabrina Ghayour’s spice salted squid and Diana Henry’s baked chicken with tarragon and Dijon mustard).

    “I visited the foodbank to check out which of my favourite dishes was on the Menu du Jour”.

    #complexreasons

  206. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    another lie, it was the libdems who blocked it in the shape of their leader Martin Ford

    SC Martin Ford’s a Greeny:D

    http://committees.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/committees.aspx?interests=1&memberid=1026

    But I get your point about we’re all YESers too, right?

    Although, Councilor Ford’s not exactly got the look of a YESer SC.

  207. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 12:05 pm
    lastly heed

    i was a member of snp bon accord branch for 15 years before moving to fife, i was out campaigning, canvassing and leafleting in aberdeen for snp cooncillors when you and ken still though the fuckin spice girls were pretty cool, so dont teach yer grunnie tae suck eggs

    Yet you think Councilor Ford’s the LibDem leader. Have a great day SC.

  208. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    BBC Sunday Politics on now, Ligger Neil discusses how Ruth can get 10 Scottish tory MP’s for Teresa’s 100 tory target. The discussion in the studio is with a Heil ligger, a SUN ligger and a Torygraph ligger. I think he is.

  209. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    Yet you think Councilor Ford’s the LibDem leader

    he was the libdem chair on the planning commitee who had the the casting vote and rejected the menie proposal. I know, I was there

  210. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ schrodingers cat – well said. I’ve tried on several occasions to get Ken500 to say who the Greens on ACC are and get no answer – because there are no Greens on ACC.

    Martin Ford was a LD chair of the Aberdeenshire Council planning committee when he, quite correctly, cast the chairman’s vote for the status quo when the vote was equally split over the Trump development at Menie.

    The LDs were incandescent and stabbed him in the back as is their custom. He subsequently joined the Greens.

    He now supports a “progressive alliance” with the SNP in Aberdeenshire Council giving them the controlling vote. But if there is a Tory majority next week then the Unionists will once again control the Council which will give them a springboard for the General Election in June.

    Attacking the SNP/Green alliance in ACC is a good way to promote a Unionist victory. 🙁

  211. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Says the Cat who said vote Green to split the vote and lose the SNP majority. The fifth columnist. The sour cream. Creaming off the majority,

    Can the BBC sink any further. Who does Brewer have on. Foulkes and Campbell who sold Scotland out. Yesterday’s men. Took £Billions and wasted it. To line their own pockets, Thry should hang their heads in shame. The. Nonsense that they spout. Disgraceful. £3.7Billion for that nonsense.

    Martin Ford and Debra Storr. Greens who joined the LibDems to get elected. That is how strong they were on their convictions. None. Blinked egos. Save the world they couldn’t even save themselves. Chucked out of the LibDems who tolerated them, for years. For non representative illegal action. Supporting the landowners etc and wasting £Billions of public money which could have been saved or better spent on essential services.

    After the Trump Inquiry which cost £Millions. Instigated by these reprobates. £2Million was cut off Education. (The Tories easy target) The Green reprobates were complaining. . Now chucked out of the greens for double dealing. Campaigning against Ms Chapman. Claiming her qualifications were false. They have no chance in the NE because of what they have done. Now an Independent. Hopefully to lost the seat. Just about single handed destroyed the local economy for years. Aiding the crooked unionists.

    The Greens could cost Scotland’s Independence. Their unpopular policies, waste,duplicity and renege on their principles could put people off voting SNP and voting for Independence. The corruption in unionist politics in the NE and elsewhere is hard to bear but the SNP and Independence are winning. More and more coming in board.

  212. Scott
    Ignored
    says:

    Had a haircut yesterday female barber needless to say politics came up she says I like May so I said ok you must back the rape clause,a look of puzzlement on her face never heard about it after explaining what it was not a May fan now so it makes me wonder how many more female people don’t know about it.

  213. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    But I get your point about we’re all YESers too, right?

    Although, Councilor Ford’s not exactly got the look of a YESer SC.

    ——————
    i never said he was, i have met him many times

    what i said was

    he isnt a councillor in ACC, he is in aberdeenshire council

    he had nothing to do with the marchall square developement,

    he wasnt a green when he chaired the planning commitee when he rejected the menie proposal, he was a libdem

    he is now in a coalition as a Democratic Independent and Green councillor with councillor Paul Johnston, who is also a yoon and nothing to do with the Scottish Green party

    when i pointed out faults in your post, you admitted you were deliberately misleading people,

    go figure heed

  214. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella says:
    30 April, 2017 at 12:17 pm
    @ schrodingers cat – well said. I’ve tried on several occasions to get Ken500 to say who the Greens on ACC are and get no answer – because there are no Greens on ACC.

    There are Greens on ACC and AC May 4’s ballot papers Capella. Underlying Greens in Aberdeen and the north east is the issue of Green blocking developments like AWPR.

    Are tory votes going Green? Are they going Green to block development in the North East? Greens blocked the AWPR as far down as Arbroath for example.

    Yes I know Arbroath is not Aberdeen.

  215. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    ken
    bollox

  216. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat cool your jets:D

    Its all grist to the mill etc, especially in Aberdeen, where its hard to work out the what and why as it is…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ford_(politician)

    Martin A. Ford is a Scottish politician, who is the Scottish Green Party councillor for the (East Garioch ward) of Aberdeenshire Council. He had a prominent role in the consideration of a planning application for a golf course at Balmedie.”

    Why not say he blocked it and thereby opening up a yoon media pandora’s box of vote NO horrors, 2014?

  217. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    tx cappella

    im off out to do some leafleting

  218. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ heedtracker – I’m beginning to wonder if you have shares in a motorway construction company. That would explain you’re attitude to the Greens re AWPR.

    Yes the planning process takes time. Yes, many environmentalists object to proposals which they see as damaging to the environment. What’s the alternative?

  219. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Marie Boulton is the green. Now conveniently Independent and standing again. More like a Tory. Campaigned against the AWPR. In the group. At the last council election two LibDems were replaced by Labour in Garthdee Dee seats? The council is split 42 seats? Approx 50/50.

    Ms Boulton joined the Labour/Unionist group. For Office and remuneration as Willy Young’s deputy. Gave the casting vote. Joined at the hip along with Crookett in the background + the other one.They were at the stock exchange ringing the bell selling the City on the stock exchange. Forty years of debt. It is unbelievable. Cutting essential services and wasting £Billions.

    If Ms Boulton has voted with the SNP group none of it would have happened. 22/21. It would have gone the ither way. The green (Independent). 600 votes. Has been involved in all the major bad, wasteful corrupt decisions. Knowingly against the majority wishes and the public interest. Willy Young’s time could be up. Finally found out? Bridge of Don waken up. The dangers of voting for a green (pseudo Independent) At local and national level. It could be reneged upon.

  220. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    Its all grist to the mill etc, especially in Aberdeen, where its hard to work out the what and why as it is…

    what the fukc does that mean?

    you admit to lying then revert to some sort of pre socratic havers in the hope it passes for intelligent comment?

    what next? a synopsis of protagoras’s dialogue with gorgias on the isness of is?

  221. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella, issues like road transport in the North East of Scotland or, why is the whole region a UK investment backwater, are hard to answer and easy too.

    Its not just Aberdeen what’s 40 years late for road infrastructure development, its Peterhead, the Buchan coast, Inverness, down the deadly A9 etc.

    If you don’t want a modern fast road network for the North East ,like what much of England has invested in and take for granted now, that’s fine. If you’re agin it all in the North East and North of Scotland, because roads are not Green, also completely fine. Roads are clearly not Green.

    Cant really say any fairer than that Cappella. Its a lot like HS2, London to Leeds super fast rail travel, giant infrastructure spends, huge multipliers local and national, to England, although First Class might have expensive whisky snifters…

    So who has been blocking infrastructure for UK regions like the North East of Scotland, for decades, if not permanently Cappella, Surely not I’m alright jack wealthy core tory votes?

  222. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ schrodingers cat, heedtracker and anybody else

    My memory is that:

    Martin Ford was a Lib Dem at the time he made the infamous casting vote.

    He moved to the Greens because he got heavily criticized for that vote.

    He was chosen to stand for Holyrood as a Green; there were multiple issues with that party in the North East, not least that he is a unionist, and he and some other person (a woman whose name I can’t remember) stomped off in a huff. Maggie Chapman was the lead Green candidate (Ford had been 2 on the list) and she was not elected.

    Is that not what happened?

  223. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    @schrodingers cat

    I’ve searched in the past for the Aberdeen Councillor “Greens who waste billions” didn’t get very far as there is nothing to find, so just took it to be a load of manure. Didn’t waste any more time on it though. Maybe I should have?

    Everyone on Wings is playing from their own songbook, I can live with that. To me though constantly demeaning an Independence supporting Green Party does not do the Independence cause any good whatsoever.

    To be Independent we will need all the help we can get from wherever. There is a bigger picture and petty party politics has no part in that. At least in my view.

  224. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    It is all OT

    There are parts of the City of Aberdeen are in Aberdeenshire Council territory. It was how the Tories wanted it when they gerrymandered the original Council boundaries. Such gerrymandering is evident all over Scotland. I will not list them all.

    Lets not forget that it is the Yoons collectively who are the enemy.

  225. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 12:41 pm
    Its all grist to the mill etc, especially in Aberdeen, where its hard to work out the what and why as it is…

    what the fukc does that mean?

    It means stuff like I didnt know Councilor Ford was a LidDem before going Green, very reassuring etc.

  226. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Capella

    Sorry for repeating what you said; I expected that to happen while I was typing (and waiting for my internet connection to revive after it crashed).

    I do not understand this obsession with the Greens; if people don’t like them fair enough, don’t vote for them (I usually don’t, though most of the time I don’t get the chance), but I find it very puzzling that certain people keep making untrue statements about them, despite repeatedly being corrected.

    I can’t work out what they think is gained by it.

  227. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ heedtracker – I’m a railway fan myself. Still seething over the Beeching cuts. All heavy goods should be on the rail network IMO, even if it means loading lorries on rail as they do in Switzerland.

    http://www.ralpin.com/?pageID=100&lng=en

    Beeching was hired by a Tory minister of Transport – Ernest Marples of Marples Ridgeway Motorway Construction Company – when he decimated the rail network.

    Even so, the cuts in Scotland were pretty savage leaving only a skeleton rail network.

  228. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ crazycat – it’s a mystery. Maybe there is some personal animosity for some reason. I’m in favour of most Green policies and welcome their presence in Holyrood. But for me the SNP is the only vehicle for independence.

    After independence we can vote for whoever we like.

  229. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Thepnr says:
    30 April, 2017 at 12:54 pm
    @schrodingers cat

    I’ve searched in the past for the Aberdeen Councillor “Greens who waste billions” didn’t get very far as there is nothing to find, so just took it to be a load of manure. Didn’t waste any more time on it though. Maybe I should have?

    Its a huge issue in the North East, a lack of infrastructure investment spends. It may seem like a storm in teacup but its really not.

    Modern transport to the North East has been both ignore and blocked. The struggle to get a by-pass around Aberdeen for example, is a perfect example of planning and investment dysfunction at national and local levels of government. Or its just great.

    Green’s says roads are bad so no, nimbies say roads are bad in my back yard so no. This is the case everywhere.

    Clearly backs have been got up by rotters like me for blending Aberdeen councils, ACC and Aberdeenshire C. Its easy to do. The new 5+ decades late AWPR, passes right through both and is met with exact same opposition, Green and nimbies, rich ones.

    At the very least, its pretty clear that blocks on AWPR type investments costs, costs billions. And not investing in Scotland like this, costs even more billions.

    And that is the whole point. And all of the above dysfunction can be applied to the Martin Ford block on Trump Golf at Balmedie. If you do not want this kind of investment in your area, vote Green.

  230. Al Dossary
    Ignored
    says:

    @Capella,

    Wonderful idea, putting the wagons on the trains. Only slight problem is that in the UK it is i believe currently cheaper to transport by road rather than train for most items.

    Hence the reason that you frequently see locomotive engines and carriages being hauled by road!

    I do sympathise with people in the Broch / Blue Toon etc working in Aberdeen. That 20miles+ of nose to tail traffic in and out of Aberdeen daily would drive you to drink. Especially as the majority of the railway cuttings are still in place and it should be fairly easy to reinstate the majority of it (as it was with Larkhall and the Borders lines).

    But then again, it would need the introduction of secondary routes and bike lanes more akin to the European model to make it viable.

    When I worked in Holland I could make a 45 km commute in 30 minutes by public transport – including a 10 minute walk and a 5 minute cycle ride. The “Snailtrain” as the Dutch called the local train actually would hit 135km/h outside Ridderskirke en route.

  231. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    this is an stv election, we are asking our snp voters to vote snp 1&2 and greens 3, tories last.since in 99/100 cases, the green will be eliminated in the early stages of the count, it probably wont make much difference whether snp voters chose to vote green 3 or not.

    i know the greens are asking their voters in this area to vote green 1 and SNP 2&3. this will make a huge difference since the greens will be eliminated before any snp candidate, it will, in many cases, be their 2&3 votes which decide how many snp candidates get elected

    so, if you cant bring yourselves to vote green……dont, no one cares

    but dont undermine others attempts to get the greens to vote snp 2&3

  232. arthur thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    – MAY is WORSE than THATCHER –

    That is the message that needs to be communicated to the Scottish electorate at every turn.

    It is immediate, simple and true.

    We must NOT accept the idea that the Tories can win seats in Scotland in the GE.

  233. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    I dont want to seem like I’m trolling good buddies like SC but this is just the tip of the Green block iceberg, new roads, bridges, Trump, wind energy, anything that’s not cycling everywhere, which I do do:D

    We have to make a choice, hard choice though, 5 decades late and it has to be based on who on earth is who, for which party, because in the North East, its a Green shapeshifting thing.

    https://stv.tv/news/north/22525-mixed-reaction-to-bypass-ruling/

    First up for a Green quote

    “The Green Party also described the decision as a “body blow to North-east communities”.

    Patrick Harvie MSP said: “Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire have been desperate for decades for a real answer to the region’s transport problems, a solution based on Crossrail and other investment in public transport.”

  234. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    heed, you clearly dont understand this stv election system

    both wings and scot goes pop advocate vote til you boak,

    so put greens last on your list or not at all, select the torys 3rd if you want, but you and ken need to understand that your ill informed comments undermine the snp’s chances of winning a majority in both ACC and AC

    best not to comment

  235. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    i know the greens are asking their voters in this area to vote green 1 and SNP 2&3.

    I did by postal SC. Everyone’s Green really. Its what our current crop of Greens do with their power, that’s important.

    Cons went in at No.8.

  236. Legerwood
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella @ 1.07 pm

    The Beeching cuts were initiated in 1963 under the Tory a government.

    In the 1964 GE, Harold Wilson said he would stop the cuts but after Labour came to power the cuts continued. In 1966, Labour produced a White Paper on transport which altered the criteria for closure and eventually an additional 3000 miles of the network were saved from closure.

  237. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    No I went with your,

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 1:30 pm
    this is an stv election, we are asking our snp voters to vote snp 1&2 and greens 3,

    And please dont tell anyone to not comment SC. That’s a yoon thing.

  238. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    ok heed
    best not to lie
    happy?

  239. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 1:49 pm
    ok heed
    best not to lie
    happy?

    Not since I was a kid. I’m not a tory.

    What have I lied about SC?

  240. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    heed

    ACC councillors had local people at their doors, rather angry at the Green decision to block The Donald

    heedtracker says:
    30 April, 2017 at 11:42 am

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 11:38 am
    it would appear that neither ken500 or heed know the difference between

    Wondered how long before you scoped that SC:D

    ———————–
    you admitted you were telling porkies heed

  241. Meg merrilees
    Ignored
    says:

    Legerwood

    Reposting this link from earlier this a.m. https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/857948817852952576

    Paul Lewis BBC Money programme calling out the tories for delaying their announcement on Pension age increases till after June 8th though legally required to announce by 7th May 2017.

  242. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Legerwood – it was Labour’s refusal to reverse the Tory rail privatisation that finally finished me as a Labour voter. When they had the chance to simply not re-award the franchises when they fell due (in 2005 I think), they announced a “review” which meant the franchises had to be renewed until the review was forgotten about.

    I recall Alasdair Darling was Minister of Transport at the time. Shoveling taxpayers money into the pockets of their city friends was obviously a greater priority.

    Been an SNP voter ever since.

  243. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    30 April, 2017 at 2:20 pm
    heed

    ACC councillors had local people at their doors, rather angry at the Green decision to block The Donald

    heedtracker says:
    30 April, 2017 at 11:42 am

    It was all heavily covered by P&J and Evening Express SC. Although I do not exactly if the councilors who’s doors got banged on by locals, were ACC or AC. As soon as the Trump block was announced, local people hammering councilors doors at home, from the Brig o Don to the bright lights of Black Dog.

    Will google to see if I can find press stories. Its hardly a hanging offence though. But nothing wrong with getting your facts right. Its odd that you think I can make people vote how I want too.

    Thanks for the endorsement:D

  244. Kat
    Ignored
    says:

    I think she (MAY) is desirous of a new job title…President of the UK. She has as much as told us recently that she wants more control of Westminster, the House of Lords and the Devolved Parliaments. Wouldn’t surprise me if she has a cunning plan to reform the HoL into an elected chamber which would then require the creation of an executive President to oversee all the elected chambers of the UK. Dastardly plans are afoot, and not just for Brexit, better give the tory manifesto for the upcoming GE a thorough reading.

    Would love to see the results of that poll question though, especially broken down by country and voting tendency.

  245. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ken500 / @Heed
    From what I gather this is / was one single Green Councillor – Martin Ford, who was a LibDem councillor until 2009 when 6 months after resigning from the LibDems he joined the Greens, and in 2015 supports a condifence and supply with the SNP. There are two councils, one Aberdeen town basicallly, and one Basically Aberdeenshore. They are totally different and even I know that, vote different ways on different issues, and have clashed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ford_(politician)

    So it seems people are trying to tar the whole Green party on the basis of ons single Green councillor who wasn’t a Green at the time, and didn’t even represent the town council, but represented the shire council.

    Shire is NOT town. Repeate, Shire is NOT town.

    As far as this is concerned I would defer to @Cat because he has local knowledge – same as I do in my area, and same as a lot of people do in their own area.

    So please, less of the Green knocking and attempts to split the YES movement against Greens on the basis of one single LibDem councillor of the wrong council anyway.

  246. pool9
    Ignored
    says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 8.32

    Yes it was, thanks.

    My apologies – I’ll not jump in to other people’s discussions again unless I have an actual contribution to make on the opoint beuing discussed. Lesson learned.

  247. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Shire is NOT town. Repeate, Shire is NOT town.

    As far as this is concerned I would defer to @Cat because he has local knowledge – same as I do in my area, and same as a lot of people do in their own area.

    Good for you. I have voted as SC says to, in Aberdeen, so that’s one in the bag.

    Problem is though, when it comes to Aberdeen and the North East of Scotland simply saying, Shire is NOT town. Repeate, Shire is NOT town.” means almost nothing and worse.

    There are a lot of people who do not want any kind of infrastructure development in this whole region. God only knows why. If we had a news media that wasn’t hell bent on dumbing us all down to hard core tory votes, maybe we’d be a bit more clued up.

    Maybe its because they’re wealthy and don’t want any environmental damage, re the full on hysterics over any wind farm applications, let alone the AWPR. Maybe they do not want any modern roads, see the Green’s explaining why in that STV coverage and PatrickHarvie’s “The Green Party also described the decision as a “body blow to North-east communities”.

    Maybe labels, party stickers style, dont even work in the North East. Are Greens up here merely tories that want to block stuff?
    Why has modern infrastructure been worse than neglected up here, by successive yoon administrations?

    Aberdeen’s basically got along with a Victorian road network, heading to the airport, its actually been even worse for 40 years, throughout the huge oil boom era. Maybe hundreds of thousands of offshore oil workers could cycle to the ABZ heliport.

    What the Trump block really did, was drag some very big hitting blockers out of the shadows in Aberdeen, just like the AWPR fiasco has.

    So maybe you can begin to understand the eye popping frustration at successive yoon coalitions and Greens, that have worked really hard at A. blocking giant investment for the North East and B. as SLabour’s future Sir WUllie Young OBE showed us once again last week, making a lot of money for themselves, instead.

  248. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    @Heed
    No I don’t begin to understand, because the only name I’ve seen so far of a Green in Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire, is Martin Ford who was a LibDem until 2009 and was a councillor in shire, not town.

    If a vague and inclusive accusation is being made about “Greens”, let’s see the full list of Green councillors, along with the dates of their tenures as councillors between say 1999-2017, and the dates of decisions about Trump, the ring road and the Aberdeen square development.

    All I’ve seen here so far is “Greens is bad”.

    The burden of proof is on those making the vague accusations.

  249. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    30 April, 2017 at 5:10 pm
    @Heed

    I know where youre coming from but fact is, Green’s are prominent opposition to big spends like AWPR and then behind them, is all kinds of big bucks local opposition.

    But we have to choose, development like England has taken for granted or, whatever it is the Greens etc want to happen, in the North East.

    Who knows why, but this region came piling in hard NO to AWPR. Check the AWPR costs in 2007, from £350 million ten years ago, to probable £1.5 bn today.

    http://www.mearnsleader.co.uk/news/protesters-say-awpr-must-have-inquiry-1-204793

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/new-163-400m-bypass-is-the-best-christmas-present-ever-1-783248

    Who knows from where, but big money flowed in for High Court legal blocks.

    “William Walton from the protest group RoadSense, which spearheaded the legal challenge against the construction of the bypass, told BBC Scotland he believed the total cost could be even higher.”

    This guy left Aberdeen not long after their million pound legal action failed. Excluding the decades of UK gov neglect for the North East, they had manage to hold up construction work for a decade on their own. How much of a macro economic loss this has caused, who knows.

    Mr Walton returned to his home town Newcastle, a city about the same size as Aberdeen but with a road transport network way in advance of anything Aberdeen or the North East used to dream of.

    Newcastle wants even more now, and they’re getting it too.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/major-roads-investment-in-the-north-east-and-yorkshire

    No word of any more million quid legal actions against it all down there, so far.

  250. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Whatever happened to vote NO or else Sir Daniel?

    “Chair of the Cabinet Infrastructure Committee and Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, said:

    World class infrastructure is vital if we are to build a stronger economy, but it matters in other ways too. It invigorates communities and gives people more opportunities to get on in life. This is why I have ensured that this government has prioritised funding roads, and railways, at a high level for future generations.

    For decades our roads have suffered from under investment, so I’m particularly delighted to be able to announce this expansive range of new road schemes today. Investment on this scale is only possible because we have taken the difficult decisions needed to control our public finances and stuck to our recovery plan which is now delivering strong growth and record numbers of jobs.

    These projects, like the scheme for the M62 extension, will help unleash the economic potential of both the regions they serve and of the overall economy.”

  251. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Iain More says:
    30 April, 2017 at 12:56 pm

    “It is all OT”

    If it was O/T, at least people would hear some music to calm the tortured soul.

    I’m away back.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  252. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    @Heed
    The problem with that is that in 2007 Martin Ford was a LibDem councillor NOT a Green. He didn’t join the Greens till 2009.

  253. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Martin Ford failed his driving test several times. So rides about on a bike. Expects everyone to do the same. Or maybe expects everyone to do the same. He turns up for ‘work’, ruining the NE economy at 10.30 am. Troughing on public money. Ruining the local economy and getting away with it. Anyone else would get the sack. Hopefully the electorate has woken up.

    There is nothing more the entitled local landowners and the clueless greens dislike than rich Americans. Stopping a Golf Development which would have brought investment, leisure facilities and visitors to the area. Really quite quiet on the greens.

    Cat has no local knowledge at all. Otherwise would not be so ill informed. Along with the rest of the little green gang, and the closet Tories. The whole of the NE is up in arms about it. Along with Willie Young’s carry on. There has been a video made independently about it. People of every hue political and otherwise are outraged. Local businesses, communities etc. It is their hard gotten cash that is being criminally wasted, leaving the City in £1.2Billion in debt which will have to be eventually sorted out. Along with the groteque monstrosity. The only worthwhile thing would be to pull it down. Or leave it there for all to see. The follies of unrepentant. A criminal catastrophe. A monument to the ego and sense of entitlement of non listening politicians.

    The Greens even have a poliicy of handing back power to local people. Really? When they aren’t listening with their nonsensical existence. They talk the talk but do not walk the walk. The do not practise what they preach. Office and remuneration comes before stated policy and principles. Voters beware.

    Cat insisted in promoting the ‘give your second vote to the Greens’. A myth. At the Holyrood election. ‘Get rid of Willie Rennie’, who many people can’t stand. A trap The SNP lost their majority. The only way to get rid of Rennie. Is for the SNP to get a majority and change to FPTP. PR was illegally and non mandated introduced to prevent the SNP getting a majority. A blatant outrage. To the electorate wishes to get rid of the lying unionist troughers. Many people can’t stand the sight of them. 3rd rejects. The majority supports FPTP. They do not vote candidates in. They want to vote them out. Often Strategically.

    The unionist sense of entitlement to control is not only an outrage but also illegal. An afront to democracy. No wonder so many people are so disgusted and lost faith in the Democratic process. On average nearly 50% do not vote. They think their vote does not count. Dislike politicians, often for good reason. Broken promises etc. That is what is so refreshing about the SNP. They instigate policies and then try to see it through.

    There is nothing more cynical than the Greens demanding second votes from SNP supporters and then stabbing the SNP in the back at every opportunity. Even using unionist fake figures to attack the SNP because they can’t count, read a balance sheet or analyse figure. Or maybe because they are just being opportunist and cynical. Where is the promised gender balance of the Greens. A promoted policy. Until it comes to the usual troughing. Same old, same old.

  254. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    He was a Green. He joined the LibDems to get elected. To carry out the unpopular ‘green’ policies. He knew he would not get elected as a green, so joined the LibDems to get elected and muck up the NE – Scottish economy. That is so idealogical, twisted egotistical. How inconsiderate of the LibDems. People know about them. Any lie will do.

  255. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat,

    “well heed
    if you freely admit you are deliberately lying and spreading confusion on these threads, why should anyone believe anything you post in future?”

    Good question.

  256. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    schrodingers cat,

    “i was a member of snp bon accord branch for 15 years before moving to fife,”

    For how many years have you been a Green member and activist?

  257. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Work out £Millions x 30 years = £Billions. ACC £1.2Billion in present debt. Wasted on worthless grotesque projects of little value. Look what Dundee has done with less. Regenerated the City. Pedestrianised. New station etc, V & A of added value. People go from Aberdeen to Dundee for shopping, recreation and short breaks. Also to Glasgow Perth and Edinburgh rather than making trips to the polluted, vandalised City Centre.

    The Trams do not take OAP off peak bus travel passes from other cities etc. They went without to pay for the Trams. The Trams are running under capacity at off-peak times. More buses have to run. That is unfair. Edinburgh the wealthiest City in Scotland has subsidised transport. In rural place people can’t get a bus.

    Willy Young subsidised First Bus, a private company making vast profits , with vast amounts of public money.

    There is a scheme moated to open up the Aberdeen to Peterhead/Banff line. If there is provision for that to ever happen. Maybe have a tram? Or not. The last tram run in Aberdeen was 1963?

    Ian Wood wanted to fund a walkway like Stravanger. Supported by the majority. The millionaire council leader turned that down to borrow and acquire a private company PPI, ‘Muse’ to vandalise the City Centre. 30 years to pay off £200Million, lease back. Cutting essential services. 130 teachers short and allowing teachers to take redundancy to cut funding.

    Teachers were not trained In the City. The SNP Gov have funded teacher training courses at the University. Teachers still do not get enough adfitional needs training. That is being remedied. The Councils were cutting essential provision. That is being changed. Ring fenced payments straight to schools are being introduced to make sure the Councils do not unlawfully keep cutting education budgets. 30 hours nursery provision are being introduced to help hard pressed household budgets.

  258. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    In the Scottish parliament, the Greens have mostly voted against the SNP.

    At Westminster, the only Green MP voted against the SNP, even though her vote would have made no difference.

    I blame the Greens for the re-election of the Tory Viceroy of Scotland last time.

    If they could stand aside for the Lib Dems in a London seat, why could they not have done it to unseat Mundell?

    If they support independence, they should not behave as spoilsports again.

    Every independence supporting website should make this clear, in my view.

  259. Jockanese Wind Talker
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, aye @Rock says

    Back sowing dissent and division (Greens today I note).

    I make that £10.80 in Better Together cash for those posts.

    MacKinnon of the 77th off duty now or just down the mess?

    You still haven’t answered me Rock.

    Are you boys still getting a bonus for making ‘Cybernats completely lose it’?

    Does Better together Blair have to declare your teams payments as electoral expenses now he is standing in the GE?

    £10:80

  260. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    30 April, 2017 at 5:52 pm
    @Heed
    The problem with that is that in 2007 Martin Ford was a LibDem councillor NOT a Green. He didn’t join the Greens till 2009.

    Yes I know my sweet innocent love:D

    But pan back a bit, at the far larger macroeconomics of NOT investing in the North East. Clearly there is massive neglect or deliberate policy, England first, England first, England first, England first, as all Scots know.

    But underlying that, is the Green Party campaigning hard to stop investment like AWPR, for all the right reasons or the wrong ones.

    Ofcourse they’re not alone, but these blocks have cost billions, in delaying the actual construction and loss of economic boosters, from good infrastructure.

    Then they blocked Trump.

  261. Corrado Mella
    Ignored
    says:

    You all are months late.
    I’ve been screaming on the top of my lungs that the fascists are here since EURef.
    You see, coming from Italy, we’ve been taught all about the rise of the nazifascists. The parallels aren’t just frightening. They’re abhorrent.
    But you keep mumbling from a forum rather than chasing the fascists with pitchforks: it’s so un-british to revolt.

  262. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Corrado:

    Buongiorno Amico mio, the good people on this forum do not just mumble, the majority of them are out trying to alert the general public of the danger.The Westminster Government Propaganda Machine such as the BBC has given a false sense of security to many.

    Why don’t you tell your friends in Italy and any other EU country about our predicament, we need all the help we can get to do our business legally before we do have blood on the streets of our beautiful Scotland. We are trying our best to do this peacefully.

    Our intention is to try and keep the peace by the ballot, not the bullet.Grazie per l’interesse.

    Pace Sempre

  263. Jackson Greenhorn
    Ignored
    says:

    Civil War it is then…

  264. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    Ya Thaaink…?

    Peace Always All Ways

  265. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    In communication with some acquaintances, from far off shores, it seems they want Scotland to get Independence, to become, some sort of Guardians of the Galaxy….what !,politically speaking that’s some, pretty heavy stuff but it did make me laugh….but on the other hand.

    Can we take the Quantum Leap and survive?
    Anyone who likes time travelling TV programmes, that’s all of us right? (Dr Who, Life on Mars, Outlander, etc.) has imagined going back and sort all the shazbots out, yes.
    Well if you live in Scotland, you are in luck.

    If you were not previously aware, the world’s oldest ‘calendar’ was discovered in an Aberdeenshire field, Warren field is located in the North East of Scotland, (near some forests at Crathes, as it happens) dates back to the Mesolithic age.

    (The Mesolithic Age: The ice melted and we got ‘cut off’ from Europe, approx. 10,000BC).

    This ‘lunar calendar’ needed to be reset annually, at the midwinter solstice (an astronomic correction)which effectively sets the clock back to zero, in order better follow the passage of time and seasons.
    I reminded of all this by the recent ‘flying visit’ to the area by TM (is DC still ‘truffling’ in the nearby woods or just testing out his new Shepherds Hut?).

    The robotic ‘incantations’ of TM are also worrying (what kind of Pecti Wita/Wicca/ is this? is it a spell or some kind of magick?)

    All I know is, voters in Scotland currently have the power, not only to control time, but also the direction of travel, the power to prevent us being dragged backwards to the Stone Ages, to a land before time, to worship at the feet of the ‘Venus of Willendorf’, where we live in a fear of the ‘Weeping Angel’.

    We need to reset the political clock, transition to the new Scottish Enlightenment, rid ourselves of these rich, idle, riparian owners and their lackeys and return to an outward looking, democratic society, as they say use it or lose it, choose wisely.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23286928

  266. Smallaxe
    Ignored
    says:

    carjamtic:

    Great post, I watched the short film and found it very interesting.

    Thank you, I hope some more Wingers travel back to have a look.

    Peace Always

  267. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Smallaxe

    Thanks,means a lot coming from yer self,at times don’t know whether to laugh or cry,but impossible to be immune to it all….sometimes take a ‘soft’ approach,whilst not disrupting the main thread,also a wee smile noo n gen does nae harm.

    As Cactus says love Scotland,what a country and the mair you find oot about,the people,places,history,man it can almost get overwhelming (makes Indyref2 easier than first time as now match fit for it,been smashing down trolls lies on FB,with straight off the cuff answers i.e. facts/truth).

    Not long now bro.

    #respect



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