The wrong question
There was a rather comforting predictability about the headlines the Scottish media greeted the first day of the SNP conference in Glasgow with.
Unsurprisingly, the Express’ lead story was a piece of fabricated drivel based on alleged quotes from an unnamed source claiming that the Scottish Government would resign in order to force an election and win a mandate that it already has.
(The SNP’s manifesto this May, on which it won a third landslide election victory in a row, clearly reserved the right to call a second referendum should there be a serious material change in circumstances, explicitly citing the Brexit scenario as an example.)
The Daily Mail, meanwhile, puffed up a load of entirely fact-free press-release foaming from some Tory list MSP nobody’s ever heard of into “news”, in the process somehow managing to twist the economic consequences of the Brexit vote caused by his own party into a bewilderingly illogical attack on Scottish independence.
Both articles are essentially the sort of comedy pastiches of terrible journalism one might create as a cautionary example in a media studies degree course, so we’ll waste no more of your time on them. The Herald’s piece, though, is at least marginally more interesting.
It’s based on a poll conducted for the paper by BMG, which in fact found the exact opposite of the Herald’s strapline claim that “EU membership is not [a] political gamechanger for the SNP”.
As noted by this morning’s Press & Journal, the poll’s actual findings were that the eventual likely terms of Brexit turned support for a second indyref from the minority choice to the majority one, which in practical terms is as significant a “gamechanger” as there can ever possibly be.
(It’s rather like the Herald’s sports section reporting that the two late goals scored by Hibs in last season’s Scottish Cup final weren’t “gamechangers”, even though they switched the destination of the trophy from one side to the other.)
But even leaving that aside, the poll is meaningless. The public vote in referendums, they don’t get to decide whether they happen or not – that’s Parliament’s job. We didn’t especially want there to be a referendum on EU membership in the first place, but we still went out and voted in it, as did over 72% of the electorate.
(A higher figure than has turned out for any UK election since 1992.)
Similarly, a very substantial minority of Scots didn’t want there to be a first indyref, let alone a second one, but when it happened a whopping 85% of those who were eligible exercised their right to vote, a figure which represented the highest level of democratic political engagement ever recorded anywhere in the UK.
We’re struggling to imagine there being anyone who wants independence but would switch to voting No because they hadn’t wanted there to be another referendum just yet. And people who were going to vote No anyway can’t vote double No. So whether people want another referendum or not is an entirely immaterial question. What matters is how they vote if and when it comes around.
Implausible as it may seem while its widely-loathed parent company slashes costs and cuts jobs left, right and centre, in commissioning a poll with absolutely no point we can only conclude that the Herald has too much money.
We go again.
Bring in on folks…..
Can’t say I’m surprised at these headlines in the Britnat Press, and it’s only going to get worse.
At least we have you to point out how much of these stories is fiction, and how much is just downright lies.
Keep up the good work Rev.
I think this is kinda on-topic, being about newspapers. From the pressgazette link in the Rev’s article:-
News team merger to create seven-day operation at Sunday Mail and Daily Record puts 22 jobs at risk
link to pressgazette.co.uk
You have to ask, of what use are newspapers that concoct fabrications in a determined effort to engineer animosity towards our elected representatives?
By their malfeasance they hope we shy from exercising our democratic rights presuming it’s all a waste of time.
By what yardstick do they think they have a right to print black propaganda?
Why buy a newspaper that prints lies?
Clocked that earlier on your twitter feed and couldn’t believe the Herald’s take on that poll.
Anyroads, I can’t think of a clearer indicator as to the intent of the Scottish Government than the wee statement the FM made on the publishing of a referendum bill. There’s a few unionist commentators out there right now with more than a splash of egg on kisser at this point. 😀
If ever there was a case of someone saying ‘Go ahead punk. Do ya feel lucky? Well do ya?’ THAT is pretty much it.
*Goes off to practice maniacal laugh*
Note also that the fieldwork for this poll (29.09-03.10) was largely done before the Conservative Party Conference (02.10-05.10). Some of the most inflammatory parts of the conference (Rudd, Hunt) were on the 4th.
Macart
Well said. *laughs hysterically* 🙂
Cue a few raging Yoon punters that Nicola has ignored their predictions that she is rowing back from independence.
🙂
Yet again, quite a few yoon journalists have been found out, writing personal, wishful thoughts as opposed to actual facts. Who knows, things are getting so desperate for them now, perhaps they will soon come out with a headline what they are really, really wishing for:
Breaking:
Scotland gives up and goes back in the box
Or:
Genie goes back in the bottle
Worms return to the can
If anyone truly believes the drivel in these papers it may be best if a vote in any election was barred for them. Maybe Amber R could give them ‘numpty’ armbands so that the staff in polling stations could say ‘Oot you go noo’
Fire up those indy juggernauts yessers and lets get this show on the road 🙂
Indy or bust and that is not just a saying it is a fact.
Jeez, The Scottish Daily Express just 15p. They’ll soon be paying money to get people to read their propaganda lies and smears.
“Jeez, The Scottish Daily Express just 15p.”
Haven’t we taught you to read the small print by now? 🙂
To tell you the truth, Macart, in all this excitement, I don’t know whether we’ve had four plebiscites or five in the past two years.
But seeing that Holyrood is now the most powerful devolved parliament in the world, and can blow Mundell’s head clean off if we call another Referendum, what he’s got to ask himself is; ‘Do I feel lucky?’
Go on, Mundell, make our day.
The Dr Geobbells School of Journalism still thrives with the MSM. Quite encouraged with the poll details the Herald tried to spin to their rather partisan agenda.
Nicola’s announcement has left me with a smile on my face. I was expecting something fairly definite but it is clear the Yoons were expecting a fudge.
I detect a degree of Yoon displeasure, I can see the Ruth scowl in my mind’s eye and it pleases me greatly.
It took a while, but man, that is small.
Grouse Beater:
“You have to ask, of what use are newspapers that concoct fabrications….”
I wouldn’t call them newspapers any more. They just publish opinion pieces (lies) to satisfy the political views of their owners.
@Jack
Can’t find an emoj for a digital Eastwood squint an’ smirk, so I’ll settle for cool. 😎
@ Toby Lerone 1:56pm
“They just publish opinion pieces (lies) to satisfy the political views of their owners.”
Indeed they do & thats why I for one don’t trust The National. When push comes to shove they WILL backstab us.
“Indeed they do & thats why I for one don’t trust The National. When push comes to shove they WILL backstab us.”
I would be very surprised indeed if that happened.
I see Andrew Neil trying to rise Angus Robertson to the Greece bait again. I really will do a post on this nonsense in the near future.
Greece with a population of over 11.2 million has a GDP OF $242 billion, whilst Scotland with a population of half that number has a GDP of $ 233.3 billion.
The important difference apart from obviously absurd Westminster overcharging for various aspects of government is the difference in potential for growth.
Greece relies on tourism for 18% of its GDP, whilst that figure is 3% for Scotland.
There are many other factors such as exports Greece being 25.9 billion Euros ,whilst Scotland is £ 76 billion.
The Snp should get researchers onto these things to have a solid Base for dealing with the likes of ligger Neil. They are essential pieces of information.
Loved the way Angus told him he was “partisan” .
We’ll have to disagree then Stu. They are owned by a US company & the ONLY thing that’s going to be on the USA govts mind is the “UK” nukes. Pressure WILL be applied.
Whatever you think about Scottish democracy, it has really stretched the British press to staggering tory stretchyness. Our 21st century democracy has basically become, Scottish democracy v. UK newsrooms.
Some Yoons not taking Nicolas good news as one might have hoped,
link to twitter.com
The compliance of the MSM is a real threat to democracy. Why do the xeno-tories no longer even try to behave? Because the MSM does not challenge them. FACT. May’s accomplices think they can get away with murder (literally).
I’m no fan of Putin but he hit the nail on the head when he accused the western media of threatening peace in the world by their complete refusal to hold their own governments to account for any of their actions. With no safety breaks, the hawks will lead us all to destruction.
Every effort is made to support the RUSSIA BAD or SNP BAD narratives, no stone is unturned. But anything that remotely puts the UK government or BREXIT in a bad light is quickly brushed under the carpet.
When the UK goes to pot, the diabolic duo, the BBC and the xeno-tory press, will be responsible.
The BBC’s UK news site has a comments section on Nicola’s announcement. The comments on there are quite amazing.
Hmm.
Time for an S.N.P. conference full of new ideas and respect for people of Scotland as well as each other. 😛
Cue Britnat MSM and their love fest 😉 with the each other as they spew more guff and bile about some party called S.N.P. from alternate universe! 😀
Apparently a couple of non entities,someone called John Lamont allegedly a Tory M.S.P. and some nutter called Alistair Carmichael, nope I have no idea who he is either, 😀 have been mouthing off to the National about the S.N.P. and their never ending harping on and on and on about independence. 😀
If nothing else, the 21st century people of the UK will have discovered the smile that is the MSM and the UK political scene.
Last time it took 99% of MSM, all 41 Labour MPs and much lobbying in England for support to win 55% to 45%. That won’t be there this time, and Fundily Mundily won’t be crating about.
EU membership lies, currency lies, oil field lies, HMRC jobs lies, ship building lies. You name it, they did it / are doing it anyway.
It’s odds on next time. 60% Yes or more, if after 2018 (council elections past, and plenty of time for Brexit woes to sink in).
O/T
For anyone who missed Andrew Neil dripping with contempt.
Are they worried, you bet they are
link to youtube.com
Interesting interview with Fiona Hyslop just put up on Euractiv.
link to archive.is
And here’s Alex Massie’s reaction to Nicola Sturgeon.
link to archive.is
Do I detect a slight whiff of excrement?
I’m in. Having just spent the last three weeks being subjected to endless hours of Fib/Dem, UKIP, Labour and last week UKIP ‘AGAIN’, I searched the programme scedules of the YoonBC to see when our conference was on during the day. Fuck all, apart from Nicola’s speech this morning which was broadcast without a word on either radio or TV beforehand. They are trying their damnedest to muzzle us. Maybe we should think again about restarting, ‘Radio Free Scotland’ and take-over the air-waves again.
I don’t actually like violence but if I could get hold of the Yoon/s responsible for allowing this infringement of our democratic rights I sure as hell would kick the lving shit out of them.
Auld Rock
PS I’m angry, very, very angry.
AR
@Nana
‘Andrew Neil dripping with contempt.’
Heh. Don’t worry about wee Andra Nana.
He’s doing a fine job motivating the troops and turning many a no to a yes. 🙂
I reckon 1 million new WBBs should do it. Put me in for 1000.
@One_Scot
Twitter has a lot of bitter and twisted unionists. Still it makes identifying the ones to block a lot easier.
I’m bleary eyed from the other side of the world, keeping a vigil on the unionist tabloid English press and doing my bit from afar.
Disappointed of course that the complaint(s)against McFadyen were not upheld. I was one of the complainants, and only ONE complaint from ‘Jamie’ was examined. They didn’t mention any other.
No mention at all in the Australian press of any intentions of trade agreements with the UK post-brexit.
Some of my English colleagues are in despair by what is happening in Westminster.
Bring it on Nicola, it’s now or never.
Nana
What a petulant childish display by a supposedly grown man.
Arbroath 1320 says:2:26
“some nutter called Alistair Carmichael, nope I have no idea who he is either,”
I would be lying if I said that chap was an honest politician, rather he is mendacious scoundrel best forgotten about, good he did will be interred with this bones.
The infamy sounding him is his legacy. And that was best summed up by his Liberal compatriot in his declaration of Liberal Values “We are all liars”.
@Mike Cassidy,
That article by Alex Massive is full of trepidation. ,and is also wrong. He makes the point that Scotland has valuable trade with England, but makes the erroneous assumption that England will be as financially stable as normal.
That is wrong. Scotland will have to expand its European trade as I seriously believe if we leave the Union and they leave the EU,their economy and ability to trade is heading due South, never to return.
England will suffer.
Yes Bob Mack, all of those things. The comparison is ludicrous. The other huge problem (possibly main problem) for Greece is that they have essentially zero control of their fiscal policy due to their membership of the Eurozone. They have been bled dry by austerity.
Scotland ditching Sterling (keeping well clear of the Euro) and adopting our own currency post-indy is the only sane course of action for us.
REAL resources are what makes a country rich. Clean drinking water, energy sources, raw materials, labour (skilled and unskilled), capacity for growing food and educating our people. Scotland ticks all of those boxes. The (r)UK is going to find that out the hard way. Marmite anyone..?
Anyway, MSM apart, it looks like game on again.
If we want to remain in the EU then indyref2 has to happen in 2017. Anything else introduces uncertainties which we need like another hole in the head 🙂
We can’t rely on the tories to stay this incompetent though….
Facts are always a problem
The UK is buggering everything up, everybody knows it, but with the No surrender type Yoons own fact creation machine grinding out the piffle that the Yoons want to hear that cause will continue to lap that shit up
Our problem is, and will be the omitting of the fear factor amongst the rest of the “We don’t want to take the risk” folk because while they know everything’s going to shit they’re still feart of being on “their own can” as we used to say when I was a kid
The big real news on the Sky and BBC 24 rolling shit can’t not report to the English folk their country’s down the tubes while at the same time telling Scotland everything’s great here so they have a conundrum to solve
How do we convince the Scots that being shit with the UK is better than running your own business, and the only answer they’re going to be able to come up with will be
Scotlands shit will be more worser and more smellier than UK shit so come with us on the great shit journey of discovery but trust us Tories to have softer toilet paper
It used to be broad shoulders, now we’re reduced to the great British Marmite fight back and how the UK will shout no surrender to the real world of “You Fukced it up now deal with it”
With that in mind they deploy Boris Johnson to rile folk up and the let’s take it out on Vlad the Russian impaler tactic, unfortunately for UK.Guv nobody’s really falling for that distraction, people are aware it’s a different thing and that’s a good sign that folk are catching on to the UK misdirectional politics
Which brings me back to what’s really important and that’s the Scottish medias approach to rubbishing everything pro independence, do they NOT report stuff or do they misreport deflect distract and ouright lie and when they do it what is to be the response vehicle for Pro Yes
The National is not enough, The truth is out there but we’ve still got a large portion of our punters who enjoy the art of selective deafness (La La La I don’t want to hear you make the world go away)
We need a Big Brown Book of Political Journalism. List the most inaccurate and misleading stories of Scottish politics from the last two years. A study into piss poor propaganda.
It could become essential reading on “media studies degree courses” of how NOT to do it.
No shortage of examples! There’s one Express journalist who will soon fill a volume by herself!
On the last topic of “Another Lucky Escape” we could have a Scotland’s Top 20 Lucky Escapes. A stocking filler this Christmas. A wee reminder of how lucky we are to be better together.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The wrong question There was a rather comforting predictability about the headlines the Scottish media […]
That young man, Dougie Daniel is a good speaker.
You can watch the SNP Conference live on the SNP YouTube page;
link to youtube.com
Things are ticking along nicely.
I need another cup of tea, my brian hurtts having workled this out finally (I hope), where’s SGP when you need him?
link to bmgresearch.co.uk
But there’s this from BMG: “Of those against a second independence referendum, just 12% said a ‘hard Brexit’ might change their mind, but three quarters (75%) said a ‘Hard Brexit’ should not result in another independence referendum (13% did not know).”
Now, with the original question being :”Overall, 47% of those surveyed say that they are against a second independence referendum, compared with 38% who are in favour (15% are undecided). ”
the third question (second was something else), was only asked of the 47% who say they are against a second referenum, so 12% of them changed to a for, 75% of them stayed the same, but 13% did not know whether they would change.
So you ignore that 13% totally as they don’t know, take the relative percentages of those that changed their minds and those that didn’t, and apply that to the original against figure of 47%.
So 12% of 47% is 5.64%, making the total for another referendum 43.64%. But of that 47% who were against, just 75% said they would stay against IR2. That makes 35.25%. Total 78.89% – with now 21% undecided instead of the original 15%.
But more importantly, rounded up to 100%, we now have 55.3% FOR IndyRef2, and 44.7% against.
A very curiously familar figure to followers of Indy Ref 1!
Sorry about the length, anyone spot an error, please post it!
Anyway, it means the P&J actually got it right, perhaps they did their own maths, whereas BMG whose figures the Herald got their figures from, got it incompetently or deliberately wrong whgen they said: “However, once the results to the follow-up Brexit question were factored back into the original question, the results suggest that up to 43% may back a second referendum, and 42% would be against. Some 15% remain undecided^.”
No, it’s either 44% to 35%, or 55% to 45% ignoring undecideds.
And here’s Alex Massie’s reaction to Nicola Sturgeon.
Toryboy’s write Sturgeon speeches too now. Its all we’re going to hit with from now til the end of the union more or less. Ligger Neil told Angus Robertson that Scotland’s the worst economy in the West on BBC Politics. Toryboy’s and their double whammy’s.
“We know that independence will damage our economy.
Hard independence – removal, not just from the UK, but from the single market as well – will be disastrous.
Independent experts estimate that the cost to the Scottish economy could be more than £20 billion.
Here in Scotland more than 100,000 jobs could be lost. Wages would be hit by up to £2000 and growth in the economy would slow.
There is no rational case for taking Scotland out of the UK’s single market.”
From today’s Grauniad:-
‘The SNP Government needs to be held to account by the independent media and The BBC’.
What world does whoever wrote that inhabit?
Enjoying the school break in the Algarve. The only channel in English is Sky news, Brexitbrexitbrexitbrexitaleppobrexit.
Does anyone need any Marmite?
If, the stated goal make that inevitable full border control contravene not EU requirements but common market requirements the free movement of people for employment is in Shirened in the save article as the free movement of goods and services
To have one without the other would require re-writing of the very backbone of the European project or sum miracle opt-out that would basically massively destabilising to EU as a whole it will come down to “the needs of the many” and the UK for the first time realising it a small fish in a big bowl.
“It began wi’ a lass. It’ll end wi’ a lass.”
And I’m no’ talking about the Stuart dynasty.
Just sit back and relax folks and let people like Theresa Marmite May, Boris naebody turned up at the Russian Embassy Johnstone and Andrew unveiling a Xmas tree Neil do the job for us. Independence is on the way.
To put it easier, 25% in total of those initially against a second referendum, were swayed by the question about a hard Brexit. 12% became for, and 13% became undecided.
25% – 1 in 4 changed their minds. Not 1 in 10, bloody liars.
Well, dishonest rather than lying, though what they said was 1 in 10 were swayed to back IR2 whereas it was 1 in 8.
Sorry, I’m afraid I got a bit obsessed there for a bit.
‘And here’s Alex Massie’s reaction to Nicola Sturgeon.’
The man’s clearly a Yoon fruit cake at the top end of the spectrum.
Polly Toynbee of the Graun says today’s Bill for independence is a “bombshell.” You have to wade through thousands of Brexit and England only words. They should really just call it Exit, EExit’s too mad.
link to archive.is
“Nicola Sturgeon joins the same united battle to protect tariff-free trading, though her bombshell on another independence referendum undermines that unity of purpose.”
So there.
Nice one, Nicola. Scotland’s Oot – let’s SCOOT.
Is it not strange that the Tory government and Labour are trying to appeal to the lowest common denominators in our Society and expect us just to fall into line with that same rhetoric.
They are now submissive, and in point of fact are joining in just as Hitler did with the fanatics hanging out in the “Beer Kellars”. They have become the very thing we all used to hate.
Ultra right wing with a policy agenda to match. Appealing to folks baser instincts is easy to do,.It is much harder to stop.
Graun updates causing lots of toryboy pant wetting. 5k+ of Graun comments and not that supportive, shock:D
10m ago
16:08
Afternoon summary
Alex Salmond, the former Scottish first minister, has encouraged Nicola Sturgeon to hold another independence referendum even if the polls are just 50/50. In an interview with the House magazine he said:
There have been six opinion polls since the European vote. Three of which have shown a majority for independence and the other three have all shown an increase from 45%.
Will Nicola Sturgeon push the button on a referendum if support for independence is, say, 50:50 or at that level? Well, I hit the button for a referendum when support was 27%. Why would she be reluctant on a much larger level than that?
Massie is full of wind.Wheres RUK going to import all that food,oil,electricity,whisky,gin etc from if not Scotland.
I also note the idiocy in the Herald that claims The Scottish Government has no mandate as it did not win a majority in the election. How then are they in government if they did not win a majority? There is quite some difference between not winning a majority and not winning an overall majority. The SNP won a majority on their manifesto or they would not be in power.
The Herald really has gone downmarket and is well on the way to going down the tubes. I’ve read far better journalism in the local school’s annual magazine than the present batch of failures writing in the Herald.
Just ripping off this one on Graun’s site. Daily Heil’s Isabel Oakeshot v Alex Salmond. Dimebelby’s referees skills to be tested, BBC style.
ScottishPanda 2m ago
0
1
Looks like tonight’s QT should be fascinating
link to bbc.co.uk
David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the RAF Museum in London. On the panel are Conservative work and pensions secretary Damian Green MP, Labour’s shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, former SNP leader Alex Salmond MP, editor-at-large of the Independent Amol Rajan and the Daily Mail’s political-editor-at-large Isabel Oakeshott.
Anybody any idea of the number of expats in Europe ( Scots), who would be seriously affected by Brexit. I know of one couple who recently moved lock stock and barrel to Spain. They voted No in the referendum.
I think they would be a Yes today.
“We deserve the truth” yelled Ruth Davidson on National telly during the Brexit debates as she called Boris and the Brexiteers liars to a man, and she yelled it about four times, the full Tom Cruise speech
Now those same liars (Ruth Davidsons words and description) are the government and now Ruth Davidson says “Aye but Aye but”
See in my book that makes her an even bigger shit than they are
Ye cannae be a double agent and no pay the consequences you end up neither side likes you
It’s kinda like she was used just like Scottish Labour were used to fight Tory battles and that didnae turn oot well fur Labour did it
PROUD CYBERNAT
So what happened about bbc misreporting scotland stickers or did I miss it? Far as I can see it’s sunk without trace and what about the funds that were sent to support it?
The press isn’t incompetent, they’re malicious. They run such false stories to set the wider narrative, so they can say “SNP ignore public’s feelings; Independence unpopular!”; where do the uninformed public get a sense of those feelings from? The media that does their best to misinform them and says that everyone thought declaring a second referendum was foolish… And who was everyone? Around and around they go.
This time though, I think it won’t work, just as the Brexit vote didn’t work out as the Establishment expected; there’s too much obvious pain and economic suffering right on people’s doorsteps for them to believe the larger spin… Which is why I expect the Tory party to fight tooth and nail to deny by any Constitutional means possible a second referendum. It’ll be easier to win this time, but much, much harder to secure one when Government isn’t going to be so complacent on a winning a third referendum.
Easier, but not easy. You lost the last Referendum because you really didn’t come out of the Nationalist bubble and listen too, or believe people had serious doubts about your arguments… arguments which were, in the case of the Economy, rather ridiculously optimistic. This time, just because Brexit Britain will be blantantly broken, don’t assume you can ignore the economy as a conquered fear and retreat back into complacency. This time around, I suspect any No campaign is going to fight on Doubt again… but doubt that you’d ever get a better deal from Europe, which might be worse than the awful economy you’re seeing right now…
The EU is already signalling it’s not going to go kindly on the UK Successor State. Unless you’ve got a clear commitment to treating Indy Scotland better, in writing, and that you can quantifiably prove and point too it, Project Fear Mk II is, I expect, going to use that and say “You’re better off with us, because we can promise (promises promises!) this kind of deal with us… But Europe, ooh they’re so scary and foreign and unforgiving”.
Try and approach it with the “well it’s obvious isn’t it? And anyway, Independence is always better” naive approach as happened in Indy Ref 1, and you’ll get slaughtered again; because people will already be justifiably afraid, and people don’t respond well when afraid to wishy washy hopes. They’ll want an iron clad answer. Make sure you have it this time.
Likewise expect terrorism to be a more central issue this time around; not so much in Scotland or Scottish influenced, but the question of the Irish border will be a huge factor… The idea of hard borders in Northern Ireland and potentially soft in a Indy Scot in the EU and with free movement of people from Eire will come up. Don’t assume you can just ignore or dismiss that either. If rUK says “How can we be sure Indy Scotland will keep us safe?!” and you know they will… have an answer this time, pressure your politicians to get to work on cast iron promises.
Personally, I don’t know what I think of an Independent Scotland this time. Was waivering, leaning towards an unconvinced Yes last time; so much depends on how the European Union will react this time that I have no idea at all whether practically it’ll be better for you or not. But I don’t doubt you have the right to call the second referendum. It’s going to be interesting to see how Parliament tries to stop you having one…
But for Alba’s sake eh, at least drop the sense that if you’re not a nationalist, you’re somehow the enemy within this time. Again, again, again when people feel under threat, they retreat to what they know, who they feel they can trust… tell them they’re the enemy and they’ll turn to the UK Government. They really, really will. Curse it as illogical as much as you like, which it is, but you do have a fair way of dealing with it; Actually be their friend. Care for them. Care for their concerns. Show how an Indy Scotland is good for them, not just because you put Independence above all else, which in their mind, will mean putting Indy above them.
Make that argument, and this Referendum should as I say be easier to win (if you get one); it’s hard to deny just how bloody stupid 52% of the population was last time and decent people will be aching for a way to reverse that idiocy. But that doesn’t absolve you from playing smart.
Good luck, wish us luck down south, and let’s hope this whole shit show doesn’t work out as bad as we fear, eh?
Awe. Far right delight of the Heil, boosts red tory kez, because everyone really gives a flying fudge what SLab think, about anything. Wonder how long SLab will keep their new and exciting obedient retainer/ultra toryboy?
Alan Roden ? @AlanRoden
Scottish Labour leader @kezdugdale’s response to Nicola Sturgeon’s #snp16 speech.
12:11 PM – 13 Oct 2016
17 17 Retweets 11 11 likes
She says:
Nicola Sturgeon’s top priority is to divide our country once again. But our country is already divided following the Tories’ reckless Brexit gamble and we should not be seeking further divisions.
Met a guy today who moved to Spain earlier this year. He and his family voted NO in the referendum. He now sees the threat to his future and will vote yes next time.
How many expat Scots live in Europe I wonder ? Anybody any idea?
Spectator: Massie.
link to archive.is
Marmitegate – the legal explanation.
link to archive.is
Robert Peffers:
‘I also note the idiocy in the Herald that claims The Scottish Government has no mandate as it did not win a majority in the election.’
An election the SNP won with 46% of the vote. The Conservatives won the UK election with 37% of the vote and held the EU referendum. Did the Herald say thay had no mandate?
If that’s indyref2 in the torpedo tubes ready to be fired can I put out a plea.
JIM SILLARS – stay away from tv cameras and any media questions or newspapers. I can tell you right now during the last indyref you were used as a stooge for the NO media. I admire your passion I do but you rhetoric turns off more people than it attracts. I can assure you as I witnessed it being packaged and gloated by in Tv editing suites your phrase about “retribution” was everywhere I promise you it turned many maybes into NO’s. Your 70’s-80’s style of working mans clubs trade union politics is not required for indyref2.
Thanks Jim, am sure you understand.
Hearing from a buddy at work whose Uncle lives in the Algarve that expats are leaving Portugal in their droves at present due to the drop in their income since Brexit. Maybe that is the Tory plan – get all the expats back and they will spend their cash in the UK from now until they expire.
Other point about jobs – Fluffy stated yesterday during Scottish Questions – or should i say the Tory filibuster session – that 1 million Scottish jobs were dependant on trade with the rest of the UK. Obviously he is from the Jackie Baillie school of employment figures!
Thanks Jim, am sure you understand.
You mean Sillars threatening multi nationals there’d be a day of nationalisation reckoning for them, wasn’t helpful?
link to bbc.co.uk
If he pulls these kinds of stunts again…well he will but its an awful way to go.
One_Scot says:
13 October, 2016 at 2:11 pm
Some Yoons not taking Nicolas good news as one might have hoped,
link to twitter.com
I’ve just left him a wee message One_Scot just to make his day complete 😀 … a polite one … obviously! 😉
gus1940 says:
13 October, 2016 at 3:25 pm
From today’s Grauniad:-
‘The SNP Government needs to be held to account by the independent media and The BBC’.
What world does whoever wrote that inhabit?
Methinks someone forgot to take their medication this morning Gus. 😛
That unnamed source is really starting to piss me off…has he got nothing else to follow!
15p for the Express. Things must be really bad?
15p for the Express. Things must be really bad?
The spluttering rage of the yoons is something to behold isn’t it?
Well, here’s the thing – I’ll keep voting for independence no matter what and as long as there is a party offering that option, I’ll keep voting for them. Once in a generation was never promised and when the inevitable Canadian comparisons come up, forget them, we are in unchartered territory now. We can have as many referendums as we like. It is up to us and we have just got to hold our nerve.
Just a thought, those swapping sides now to No, did they only vote for Independence hoping we would get booted out the EU?
15p for the Express. Things must be really bad?
That unnamed source is really starting to piss me off…has he got nothing else to do!
Maybe the sentiment in Amber Rudds speech had some merit. Maybe those that believe this poor journalism output could be segregated with armbands with the word numpty in bold. Then on referendum day they could be bussed to the border and told to be on there way.
@ Clipper
“So what happened about bbc misreporting scotland stickers or did I miss it? Far as I can see it’s sunk without trace and what about the funds that were sent to support it?”
Were you on the mailing list? If not, then you will not have received any stickies. If you were, then you should receive them any day now as have many of the other distributors.
I am sure there will be a good number here (if they see this reply) who will be happy to reassure you that they have received their stickies and that the monies donated by everyone (Thanks Again, folks) were spent on the campaign in the manner intended. There is still a small residual amount left over which will be going to other good causes.
I have ALL the receipts if you would like to inspect them?
Looks like tonight’s QT should be fascinating
link to bbc.co.uk
David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the RAF Museum in London. On the panel are Conservative work and pensions secretary Damian Green MP, Labour’s shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, former SNP leader Alex Salmond MP, editor-at-large of the Independent Amol Rajan and the Daily Mail’s political-editor-at-large Isabel Oakeshott.
I get the feeling that tonight, Heedtracker, it is going to be one gawd almighty Britnatfest from start to finish.
The only question that really needs answering is how far into any of his answers does Alex Salmond get before Brillo boy’s daddy – O (Dimblebum) let him get before interrupting him. My guess is you will be looking at around 30 seconds. 😉
Arbroath1320 says:
13 October, 2016 at 5:13 pm
Looks like tonight’s QT should be fascinating
You have to hand it to people like Alex Salmond, they’re fearless. That museum couldnt be any more Brit English if they were in Buck Palace, with a royal chairing.
Just the now, BBC r4 PM show very Scottish BBC style, Eddie Mair and Sarah Smith SNP badding it like tory champs. Sarah explains that there is no shift in Scottish polls for independence and that its just threats. Its just another lie but Eddie likes that, Sarah says more SNP bad, BBC r4 ligger at the conference butts in with SNP bad, shock.
Such is tory BBC propaganda and last Scots ref poll I saw was 55% YES but its not mentioned by our Scotch cringers Eddie and Sarah.
Oh @Ann, Stu will be after you with his hammers – it’s a small print thing. But glad that no one actually knows the price of the rag.
Young Massie, one of the tenement dwelling half educated cravers of social status faithful retainers, who drones on in the same haughty fee paying school posh quasi RP accent as Torrance of the Herald, believes that wode is the Unionist secret weapon.
In his column today we are described as ‘died in the wode’ Nats.
Are they going to plunge us into vats of wode and hold our heads down until we gurgle our last?
He compares the Self Determination Movement Up Here with the rise of Corbyn and Trump. Dead subtle, eh?
He should add Saddam and Hitler,surely?
He really is a poisonous little toady.
He turns NS’s statement of intent on its head, substituting UK for EU.
“We know that independence will damage our economy.
Hard independence – removal, not just from the UK, but from the single market as well – will be disastrous.
Independent experts estimate that the cost to the Scottish economy could be more than £20 billion.
Here in Scotland more than 100,000 jobs could be lost. Wages would be hit by up to £2000 and growth in the economy would slow.
There is no rational case for taking Scotland out of the UK’s single market.”
Young Massie, when we vote overwhelmingly for self determination, and remain in the EU, it will be your pals Down There who will be trying to negotiate a Trade Deal with us, and our 27 European Partners.
We will be with the 530 millin, negotiating with the 58 million. The clog will be on the other foot.
The absolute pish you talk about Scotland losing its trade with England following their Exit is quite risible.
Like any semi educated English retainer, you’ve got to try your best if you crave English social status, I suppose.
See all our fish, whisky, electricity, timber, computers, oil, gas, and so many many more vital products with which England cannot do without post Brexit, will still be exported South, but probably with a 10% Marmite hike.
What do we import from England, that we cannot get in Europe, without tariffs?
Jam? Cumberland sausages? I’m a Celebrity, strictly Dancing on Thin Ice?
I cannot even feel insulted or vaguely threatened by the childish logic and superior haughty threats of this sad young retainer.
The assertion that we export 4 times as much to England as the rest of Europe is also an unsubstantiated lie, the hoary old Better Together threat that England would ‘punish’ us when we vote Yes.
Every English HQ’d supermarket and company established in Scotland, buying and selling Scottish goods to Scots, is considered as part of this mythical ‘4 times’ the trade which we have with England.
There is every rational case for taking Scotland out of the UK Single Market, Oh Tenement Dweller.
It might even frighten you to flee South.
If the English/Welsh govt wants to play hardball with anyone then here’s some (live) figures that indicate they are in no position to do anything of the sort :
The current electricity transfer from Scotland to England is 974MW as of 17:22
From France to England its 802MW
From the Netherlands to England its 1036MW
That’s a total of 2.8GW of power England requires.
Want to play hardball?
If France turns off the power then that’s large sections of SE England blacked-out.
Scotland turns it off – well that’s Manchester/Leeds blacked-out.
The Netherlands interconnector off – that’s most of central London gone.
The English really have lost the plot – completely & utterly.
One day Jim Sillers will realise the damage he is doing…I hope it is sooner rather than later.
He fits the classic saying “…having him is worse than being a man short”
Torrance went to Leith Academy.
heedtracker says:
13 October, 2016 at 5:19 pm
Arbroath1320 says:
13 October, 2016 at 5:13 pm
Looks like tonight’s QT should be fascinating
You have to hand it to people like Alex Salmond, they’re fearless. That museum couldnt be any more Brit English if they were in Buck Palace, with a royal chairing.
To be honest Heedtracker I have no idea how they manage it. Whenever I have watched them in action I have been in awe of them … mainly because I had already lost it at the TV minutes earlier. 😀
In my view anyone from the S.N.P. who ventures onto ANY of the Britnatfest programmes deserves a medal for managing to keep their cool under extremely difficult and trying times! 😛
Titler @4.28pm Excellent post. One we would all do well to heed. And thank you for your good wishes.
It got a step closer today and if we can win this fight for Scotland’s independence – and make no mistake, it will be the biggest fight of our lives – we can bring hope that there is a better way to do things to millions of people throughout England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are suffering, like us, in these dark and dire days of neo-conservative oppression.
Jack
‘Woad’ I think. Torrance’s error?
I haven’t seen or heard any of the outpourings of Jim Sillars in recent years, just heard them reflected, distorted fun-fair mirror style, on sites like this one and by Yoon media.
Perhaps he’s noticed something I and many others have too -that independence, the cause, has been usurped. It’s been taken over by the comfortably off haves who want independence in order for them to have even more, devil take the hindmost. The just but unpalatable idea of a little less for some in order to have more equitable distribution, focus-grouped out of sight and then existence. A swarm of Thatcherite aspirants nurtured on divisive Britnat class stratification, and old-money on the make, who’d be wimps not to fill their boots, seeing a future of nice little earners in an independent Scotland dawning before them. High tide might lift everyone’s boats, big and small, but what for those with no little boat or safe anchor, half-dead, clubbed insensible by neo-liberalism and already pitched overboard, desperate and drowning? Eugenics?
@clipper Just to let you know we are at the SNP conference and a very passionate gentleman from Moffat was handing out ” BBC Misreporting Scotland ” stickers and they were being enthusiastically received. Had a great day here
@Proud Cybernat (5.12) –
Forgot to say, I got my batch of stickers on Monday. Parcel was opened, but no big conspiracy – looks like it’d just burst at the seam when it hit the deck.
Thanks again for all your efforts.
🙂
Does Massie have a clue how frigging repetitive he is? That article follows the same steaming, shitty format as about the previous 3.
Starts off saying, well Nats keep natting, can’t blame them really since Brexit, then:
BLACK HOLE KLAXON, you are stupid, worthless idiots living in a worthless country.
Boring.
That QT list of participants is typically wrong:
Conservative work and pensions secretary Damian Green MP, Labour’s shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, former SNP leader Alex Salmond MP…” spot the anomaly.
Should read “Alex Salmond MP, SNP Foreign Affairs spokesman”.
QT comes out of BBC Scotland’s budget. Shouldn’t it try a bit harder?
@ ScottishPsyche
Still yet to meet one of these yes to no characters that doesnt work for GCHQ or is a mad slavering yoon pretending they voted yes last time,you know i think they are a myth.
In my view anyone from the S.N.P. who ventures onto ANY of the Britnatfest programmes deserves a medal for managing to keep their cool under extremely difficult and trying times!
True that! This lunchtime, watched Andrew Neil on his daily tory party political broadcasts. Daily BBC Politics farce, as he raged at Angus Robertson that Scotland cant be independent because its the “worst economy in the western world.”
But them you think how much Scottish oil and gas has been invested in England and pissed away, by same toryboy’s Andrew Neil’s working his arse for.
Only Scotland can we strike oil, 40+ years later become the worst economy in the western world, and have same tory boot boys that blew all that money, rage away at us for even thinking of change, on a BBC that’s become so expensive and so corrupt, its the main UKOK opposition in Scotland.
Let’s not forget that, whether it is the BBC, the Telegraph, Guardian, Daily Mail or the Sun, Alan Massie or Siobhan McFadyen, they all fit Chomsky’s description of the Propaganda Model.
Someone a few threads back posted a link to a paper describing it. “What Makes Mainstrem Media Mainstream”. Well worth revisiting IMO.
link to chomsky.info
Or, here’s a short 10 minute video summary:
link to youtube.com
Thanks to this site – the second most read political blog in the UK – more and more of us are wakening up to the manipulative propaganda pouring out of the MSM every day.
Thanks to Stu the Revelator!
I just wanted to say “I love you’s all” ?
@ Titler at 4:28pm …..
Good post and some great advice Titler, in relation to the economy, defence and most of all “be their friend”. I’d add immigration to that list because I reckon that Westminster / the media will try to use this to influence the vote.
Sending my best wishes to you too and hoping the situation improves for everyone in the UK very soon.
Watching the recording on BBC Parliament of the SNP conference. They only seem to have one camera that has to jump from speaker to convener and back resizing as it goes. Totally amateurish. Are the BBC being cheapskate or trying to make the SNP look amateurishness by association?
“Implausible as it may seem while its widely-loathed parent company slashes costs and cuts jobs left, right and centre, in commissioning a poll with absolutely no point we can only conclude that the Herald has too much money.”
Thanks to their cash cows The National and The Sunday Herald which milk gullible independence supporters by pretending that they support independence.
Buy The National and The Sunday Herald if you wish to keep The Herald alive.
Rev. Stuart Campbell,
”
“Indeed they do & thats why I for one don’t trust The National. When push comes to shove they WILL backstab us.”
I would be very surprised indeed if that happened.”
Mark my words. The National will not fully support independence when the time comes. It will either make excuses and close down or will give very lukewarm support.
@DerekM
Of course they exist! They turn up on Kaye Adams show every morning and YoonGov et al keep telling us!
Deep breath. Nothing breakable nearby? Dog, cat, wife, children in a safe place?
“Andrew, from Halifax, vented his anger at the new proposals put forward by Ms Sturgeon.”
link to archive.is
@ Tom B at 6:18pm …. “Haven’t seen or heard any of the outpourings of Jim Sillars in recent years.”
Tom Jim Sillars was being chased after by the media in the run up to the EU Referendum earlier this year, because they’re well aware of his views. His comments were being published in the anti-Independence newspapers: That means most all of them of course. He was also on debating panels advocating leaving the EU and used that platform to run the current SNP / Nicola Sturgeon down to the ground for example practically calling her a liar re. her mandate (she’s not telling you the truth) to hold another Indy referendum.
To be honest I used to really admire the man, more so his wife, but my opinion of him has altered dramatically to the point that I wonder if he wants Independence at all. IF he does he may not be aware that his ‘outpourings’ now are actually detrimental to our cause imo.
Andrew Neil. Wearing a 4/7 Royal Dragoon Guards tie which he has no entitlement to wear. He never served. A Walt.
Chic MacGregor @ 5.46.
I ‘m sorry but I think that it’s my booboo.
I type at three times the speed of my brain sometimes, unlike Massie and Torrance.
‘Wode’ is apparently an Olde English word meaning insane or crazy.
Freudian or wha’ ?
@ ScottishPsyche
Ah that why i dont meet them UKay with an E has them locked up in the studio broom cupboard lol
Just keeping an eye on darn Sarf!
More for the good of my health to see what’s new. 🙂
link to archive.is
Conference good and Nicola looked determined when she spoke.
PS:
Aye! Mr Sillars and sometimes Mr MacAskill might want to find another tent to piss in.
Well done Mr Dylan:
@ Rock at 6:55pm and 7:00pm …. The National.
The National …. Sovereignty…. The National …. Sovereignty…….
Great day for the SNP. So much that could be said about it but NO …
The only positive in all of this is that you are probably, in your own inimitable way, actually promoting the newspaper. Great to see too that you’ve moved on somewhat from your prior stance to now quoting terms like “very lukewarm support” (for Independence). Take note too that I buy and read The National / Sunday Herald but I’m considered by everyone who knows me as being FAR from gullible.
Last post from me on this as I reckon your National / Sovereignty posts are being used to disrupt threads: bore the lurkers to death.
clipper@4.28: I got my stickers on Monday.
Mike Cassidy re Alec Massie article: “Do I detect excrement?”
If I ever click on a link to this “journalist”, I take the precaution of applying a generous cordon sanitaire of Vick to my philtrum. This works for all MSM output.
I’m growing increasingly concerned about Boris and his bellicose anti-Russian bilge. Are the Tories planning on a jolly good war to take everyone’s mind off Brexit?
James Kelly …
“Sturgeon for the first time fleshed out the detail of the tests the UK government will have to pass to avert an independence referendum.”
link to ibtimes.co.uk
The Yoon media treats NS/SNP/SG position as a threat, blackmail, being subversive in some way.
Even before the Brexit vote NS/SNP/SG would make the situation clear – if you do X then Y is inevitable. Remember, NS suggested Cameron might want to consider giving each of the four parts of the UK a veto on the final result. That was very sensible. I do wonder if Cameron now wished he had taken the advice.
Time and time again NS/SNP/SG have said “these are the consequences if such-and-such happens”. And they have always been ignored.
So now the latest. And yet still the Yoons see it as ‘holding England/WM to ransom’.
May/Three Stooges/WM will ignore Scotland and go for a middling to hard Brexit. IndyRef2 is inevitable.
Simple cause and effect.
@Petra (7.47) –
Hear hear.
I chose ‘a hard place’ many moons ago. Not much to do, but nowhere near as boring.
From the Express: “SCOTLAND is “very close” to independence new SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson claimed today.”
The Express really is incompetent, it can’t even get that right. Angus Robertson didn’t say that at all. What he said was:
“SCOTLAND is “very very close” to independence
Fools, jerks.
@Rock
You really puzzle me Rock. while I’m not a subscriber to the National you seem to have a personal hatred of it, but here’s the puzzle bit, suppose the National was all the things you say it is and if indeed it did turn against Independence at the last minute as you suggest how would that change the cause of Independence? Would you not vote for Independence just the same, and if you would wouldn’t everybody else whether they read the National or not
Or is your thinking based on the idea that there are folk who would only vote for Independence because of the Nationals stated position and what would you think of say the Daily Record changing it’s view on Independence to one of support, now I know that’s not likely to happen but it wouldn’t change your vote would it
So in fact the Nationals opinion means nothing to you so why get so energised about it
BTW I’m not setting up a row here I certainly don’t mean to do that I’m just honestly puzzled
With the Tories down south gaining strength, I’m sorry to have to agree that we can’t wait any longer, otherwise Scotland will be torn to shreds by this selfish, immoral English government
To show how corrupt the BBC is I was at SNP conference today was questioned by Daily Politics for there red ball yellow ball segment .They asked did I prefer European Union or British union to which I replied European naturally the Eu side had about 150 yellow balls uk had 3 ,on watching when I came home the whole segment was missing not a ball to be seen.
The cutting room floor for the balls because it was so one sided and not on the BBC agenda.
Here’s a good eane
link to lbc.co.uk
P.S. nice one Doug, shakk-a-leg 😀
Well done Mr Dylan:
Also UKOK mental is watching the whole of the tory BBC led media in ecstasy over Dylan’s Nobel prize. One of the most hard core conservative media industries in the world, celebrates a song writer what wrote all about how shite hard core conservatives really are, shock.
The worst was the BBC r4 PM crew. What a bunch of tory roasters that lot are.
Kevin Meina says:
13 October, 2016 at 8:13 pm
To show how corrupt the BBC is I was at SNP conference today
Use your phone or camera and film them in action, stick it on youtube. Laura Keunsberg was never with out huge minders at the Labour conference. But its completely the opposite at the tory one.
@heedtracker –
It seems Andrew Neil made all his guests stand up for a rendition of ‘Blowin’ In The Wind’.
@ Jack Collatin at 5:51pm ….
Great post Jack.
I reckon that many Unionists forget the most basic premise and that is that (55 million pop) England imports more than it exports and that (5 million pop) Scotland is practically self-sufficient …. exports much more than it imports. Exports a great deal more to England than Marmite. Then again maybe they’d prefer, say, Chinese beef to Scottish in future. No accounting for taste.
It also makes me laugh at they way that they froth at the mouth and practically go into status epilepticus when we mention leaving the Union. In between times we get castigated constantly for being whinging Jocks, financial liabilities, whiners, subsidy junkies, a veritable drain on their economy and so on. Our education system / attainment, NHS, Police Force etc is abominable. So they say. Scotland in other words seems to be pretty sh*tty. So sh*tty they’re relocating here in their droves.
As has been said so often before you’d think they’d want rid of us.
Also
link to lbc.co.uk
“Ms Sturgeon’s declaration of war on Brexit comes after the Scottish Secretary, David Mundell, announced the SNP leader and the Prime Minister will have their first Brexit showdown on 24 October.
Mr Mundell told MPs the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee to discuss Brexit, involving the UK Government and the three devolved administrations, would take place in 12 days’ time in Downing Street.”
Another example of BBC manipulation of the news from Michael Stewart’s twitter feed.
Michael Stewart ?@mstewart_23 11h
Have listened to Kaye Adams show for 40 mins on the impact #Brexit will have on our lives & not 1 single mention how we DIDN’T vote for it
THIS POST IS ABOUT FOOTBALL
Rev. I realise you are an Aberdeen fan, so, I will use short words.
FOR FUCK SAKE – LEAVE OFF WEE STRACHAN.
It will not matter who is Scotland coach/manager, until we get shot of the numpties on the sixth floor at Hampden, it would not matter if we had Jose Mourinho or Pep Guardiola as manager, we would still not qualify for a major championship finals.
Can I suggest, once we have gained Independence, turn your energies and brilliance over to getting the SFA sorted-out.
Now, that is a challeng worthy of your talents.
Do not jump on the bandwagon of the Lap Top Loyal r the Fans with Lap Tops.
Ian Brotherhood says:
13 October, 2016 at 8:20 pm
@heedtracker –
It seems Andrew Neil made all his guests stand up for a rendition of ‘Blowin’ In The Wind’.
Its just unbelievable what we have to endure, pouring out of our tv’s and radio’s toryboy wise. BBC r4 PM gimps even rule Britannia appropriated Dylan’s biggest hits, with lots of frightfully posh English actors reading out the lyrics. A perfect destruction of some very radical art by ferocious elitists so far up there own jacksies, they think they can do it better than Dylan. Only in the UKOK zone no doubt.
What’s the emoji for throwing up?
Well done Rev.
I’m asubscriber to the Herald, for the moment anyway, and reading the article this morning even I could see that the conclusion drawn by Tom Gordon, their political editor, was utter bollocks.
Can I suggest, once we have gained Independence, turn your energies and brilliance over to getting the SFA sorted-out.
Now, that is a challeng worthy of your talents.
The English rant away at their FA too. It makes no odds. Not enough kids play football these days. Clubs are run by filthy rich money crazed nutters like Stewarty Milne that wont invest, most matches are boring to watch, its too expensive. A dad taking a couple of his kids to Pittodrie costs much more than the movies. But it didn’t used to.
Proud Cybernat says:
13 October, 2016 at 5:12 pm
@ Clipper
“So what happened about bbc misreporting scotland stickers or did I miss it? Far as I can see it’s sunk without trace and what about the funds that were sent to support it?”
Were you on the mailing list? If not, then you will not have received any stickies. If you were, then you should receive them any day now as have many of the other distributors.
I am sure there will be a good number here (if they see this reply) who will be happy to reassure you that they have received their stickies and that the monies donated by everyone (Thanks Again, folks) were spent on the campaign in the manner intended. There is still a small residual amount left over which will be going to other good causes.
I have ALL the receipts if you would like to inspect them?
………………
Got mine last week Scott and take a bow for organising the whole venture.
Re Andrew Neil.
Christmas Trees???? Is that what what will convince Scotland.
That’s their argument?
The SNP are irresponsible because… Christmas Tree’s got talked about in Westminster.
Now despite being half educated I understood he tried to insinuate it was a waste of money to use Parliament’s time like that.
But in comparison to the amount it cost to talk about Thatcher after it was beyond doubt,she wasn’t listening anyway.
This double standard thing has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous!!
I mean what’s his actual point, don’t vote for Independence or you will have to talk about Christmas Trees a lot…a very lot.
Anybody here having second thoughts now ?????
link to caltonjock.com
Tesco & Asda deal with Unilever. Marmite is back on the menu.
link to archive.is
@galamcenalath
Ayup! Its spooky how the SNP keep telling folk exactly what they mean to do and carry out their duties as required by the situation they find themselves in.
In fact its spookier that the press are so surprised and continue to be surprised by this wild and unnerving adherence to their statements. Especially after their comentariat have gone to such extraordinary lengths to predict the FMs thoughts and actions for her, albeit with remarkable inaccuracy.
Mibbies one day they’ll get it right, though I doubt it. It must appear to the FM that she’s almost speaking in a ‘foreign’ language at times… 🙂
Great article from WeeGingerDug: ‘The path we’re walking.’
….”The descent into Brexmess continues with Tory xenophobia and lists of foreigners, a plummeting pound and empty supermarket online shopping carts. Brexshit means 1970s Soviet shopping opportunities and the welcoming attitude to non-citizens last found in 1930s Germany, along with a pound that will soon be trading on a par with the Zimbabwean dollar.
Many voted for Brexit because they wanted to return the UK to some mythical glory day long in the past. Well they got their wish. The pound is now trading at a historic low, on a level not seen since the 1840s and we’ve got soaring levels of poverty and inequality that wouldn’t be amiss in Victorian times.
At this rate if we wait a bit longer Westminster will take us all back to 1706 and Scotland won’t need to bother with another independence referendum.” ….
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@John J
It wasn’t really him, it was BMG the poll company. Or at least it was once they put their article up around midday. Maybe there was a swift panic call to BMG.
link to bmgresearch.co.uk
Spot the similarities!
BMG totally compromised.
@ Jack Collatin, Wud = Mad, in Scots. Rock fur example is wud as fuck. Mark my words!
The BoJo Prophecies. Could be title of Jk Rowling’s next pile of grot.
BBC Politics
1 hr ·
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson promises those who “prophesied doom” over Brexit will be proved wrong, with the UK getting a better deal with EU countries.
The National: ‘An independent Scotland in the EU could be a magnet for talent from the rest of the UK, argues new book.’
‘A POLITICAL strategist credited with helping the SNP win the 2007 Holyrood election has set out how an independent Scotland in Europe could experience a cultural and economic renaissance after Brexit………..
“Our small size compared to England plays strongly to our advantage. We are a 12th of rUK – about a 10th the size of England. Stripping England of a mere one per cent of her high-end economy that is dependent on EU membership would see an uplift in our own economy of 10 per cent.”………..
“England will not be a world power reborn – no new Elizabethan Age – it will go from a small and fairly successful European country to a smaller and slightly less successful one.”
link to thenational.scot
So…Boris Johnson is a wud fud…makes sense.
That meeting with Theresa May on the 24th. Will result in the beginning of the end of the UK. The Tories will not listen to Scotland or Sturgeons requests. I expect the referendum to be called by January. Salmond named the date and then started the process. Nicola has started the process so the date can be any realistic date the SNP think is good.
We know Brexit is going to start at the end of March. It takes 2 years so indi ref could be January 2018! Things will hasten now the phoney war is over.
If we exit UK before Brexit closes, EU would regard us as never having actually left the EU, so we wouldn’t have to re-apply.
If a powerful body of 450 million people in 27 states would regard us as continuing members, it raises the tantalising prospect of us being recognised in international law as the ‘continuator state’.
WE could become rUK, and the inheritor of all the former UK’s international role and status.
We’d have the nukes, they’re on our soil. We could hold the permanent seat at the UN Security Council.
Given the 48% of Remain voters in England and the 52% of No voters in Scotland who wanted to remain in the UK, it would almost be a duty to claim the crown jewels of the British state to keep rUK going, in Scotland, run from Edinburgh, not London.
Tinto Chiel 7.47
My excrement remark about Massie was actually aimed at the fear factor which is emanating from the pores of unionists like him.
You get the impression they are beginning to drop bricks from their posterior.
Mike look at Ruth Davidson. Gone is the swagger. She is crapping herself. The Yoons have been caught with their trousers down. They conned Scotland once, and who knows maybe gerrymanderd the postal votes. But next time they won’t have any plan just like Brexit.
Boris is a fool, an upperclass English twit.
I can imagine our foreign secretary discussing Syria with Assad and Putin, I would give him till his second Latin eulogy before Putin pulls out a weapon and blows Boris’s head off.
I still am amazed that the Tory party, who say they are the financial wizards and full of business acumen are stating that Europe will give them all they want to be a major competition to eh, Europe, because that is in the Europeans interest? Really?
“They are beginning to drop bricks from their posterior.”
Yes, mike, but if they’re like this now, what’s it going to be like after Brexit with economic melt down, Indyref2 in full swing and the polls going in our direction? How much fear can they take before the go completely tonto?
Tanks at Berwick? The Rev in the Tower? Boris installed as North Region Gauleiter?
Does anyone have a link to Nicola’s speech today? Marcia had the link to afternoon session with Doug’s input above but Nicola’s speech isn’t on that session. Ta in advance. (I’ve looked on SNP you tube site but can’t find it)
@K1
link to snp.org
Watching ITV 10.00 news right now. Re. Indyref2, just heard their reporter quote very negative stats for Scotland from ‘The taxpayers Alliance’. I’m sure I heard that this mob are right-wing nut jobs. Can anyone confirm. Figures announced as if they were from a most respected source.
Can’t believe news at 10 propaganda!
A tax payers alliance, no doubt a Tory party
Club suggest Scotland could only join the
EU by increasing Tax from 20 to 39% or
Reduce NHS funding by 82%.
Absolutely stunning level of UK based
Scaremongering to keep England’s hand
In Scotland’s pockets!
@Nuggets O’Pish
Don’t watch TV or pay the license. All they talk are Nuggets O’Pish and mere pish.
Tax Payers alliance are right wing nut jobs and their simplistic analysis of the Scottish economy was highlighted in the Daily Mail to-day
link to archive.is
Right Wing Tax Payers Alliance simplistic analysis of Scottish Economy was in Daily Mail to-day
link to archive.is
Aplogies if this is repetition but post seems to have gone AWOL
@Big Jock –
Aye, May’s calamitous speech has put Ruth’s gas at a peep, and it showed at FMQs. Far less strident than the pre-Brexit Davidson we had all become accustomed to.
Not quite the absolute jape it once was, eh, Ruthie?
Absolutely stunning level of UK based
Scaremongering to keep England’s hand
In Scotland’s pockets!
Nation and local yoon culture’s ramping up the UKOK bullshit. Wullie Young does yoon stuff like banning FM Alex Salmond from all Aberdeen council property 2014. Now he’s spending £40k on explaining to Aberdonians just how great he is. I UKOK shit you not. Why would a SLab dude like Wullie ban Scotland’s First Minster? Its probably not in his “legacy” book, although he’s dumb enough to try.
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
@Petra
thanks for the mammoth list of Labour stupidity on the Galaxy class stupid thread 🙂
Hope you can find the Gordon Brown one too, gold reserves give-away, great pension robbery, etc
I’ll see if I can make it into an A-B-C format like a childrens book. A is for ATOS, B is for Bedroom Tax…
Joyful news about Indyref 2 for those gum chewing half- educated kilt-wearing commie tenement dwellers who have managed to collectively (through a peaceful democratic movement) acquire 2 of the 3 components of what makes people happy and fulfilled. Mastery (the desire to keep improving at something) and Purpose (what we do transcends something meaningful beyond ourselves).
(‘Drive -The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us’).
The 3rd necessary ingredient is Autonomy which is just hovering at the horizon within Scotland’s reach.
From the BMG website:
Oh so wrong on a number of counts:
+ It is presumptous and plain unprofessional to presume that those who are reluctant to have indyref2 would be NO voters in the event it actually happened. Many may well be, but some could simply be registering annoyance that they have to bother to go through the whole thing again, but might well vote YES when they do. Most people are not zealots for either side, they just want to get on with their normal lives for most of the time.
+ After the subsequent back-factoring, the quoted “vast majority” simply didn’t exist! That statement of Turner’s should have been corrected or withdrawn.
+ A further presumption. The poll offered no evidence as to the motivation re identity of those polled, so there was nothing whatsoever to justify the latter statement that this group cared more for their UK than EU identity. This is rank propaganda, not evidence.
When I saw the Herald headline as I went to get my copy of The National today, my first reaction was “great, we’re roughly evens at the moment, so all it takes is a wee slide like this to tip the balance”. I’m with Alex Salmond on this thing. Brexit is just the latest in a long line of BT busts, and a referendum that starts where we are now is just waiting to be won by sound argument, careful timing and a dash of courage (even allowing for a ~third of voters who are bitter-end Unionists).
And what’s more, the Unionists know it.
Was that two unionist commentators on Scotland 2016 there tonight? If so why? Oh yeah. SNP conference.
was looking for a link to Nicolas speech, just found it courtesy of Scott Arthur. Cheers Scott! He says its overwhelmingly negative though. What a strange world he lives in.
Gerry Hassan says Nicola Sturgeon hasn’t done anything for Scotland for two years BBC Scotland 2016
I couldn’t even get out an Eh?
Stairheid Curran says and I quote “shite shite pish jobbies crap pish debate within the Labour party” and then she said “crap pish shit meh Thank you”
FOOTBALL ALERT!
Hi Heedtracker.
You typed,
“Not enough kids play football these days.”
Around 50 years ago, me and my mates were on a day out (probably during a school holiday). We came across a footie game taking place at the playing field in Bridgefoot, just outside Dundee.
We witnessed one of the most innovative moves we had ever seen. For some reason, these kids (around the 12 to 14 age) had a girl playing left wing on the team that was taking a kick-off from the centre spot.
The kick was aimed at the area between the right-back and right-half of the opposing team. As soon as the whistle went, this girl started running, collected the ball as it landed, lobbed it over the right-back then moved in and scored.
I’ve never seen that kind of move in the professional game.
Ill informed guests and audience on this tonight. They obviously spent years living in Scotland.Not. They should put themselves in the position of Scots and then listen to themselves pontificating re Scotland.
BBC commentator after Nicola’s speech: ‘Scotland, as a region, didn’t vote to leave the EU’.
I think that what Nicola said about the Sewell Convention and Holyrood was just as significant as the news about the referendum bill. Constitutional crisis on its way to a region near you.
K1
Poor old Ed Wud Wud Wud.
Being burned in a Wicker Man must have been a release for him.
Question Time
Alex acquits himself as well as ever.
Isabel Oakeshott of the Daily Mail is just as nasty as you would expect from a representative of such a rag.
Not a region,a country is what Scotland is. It’s almost as if new directives have been issued. “tell them they are a region,and keep repeating it”
It isn’t going to work this time.
This is absolutely the last time I watch QT. A bullying nasty audience. The same old propaganda. The Daily Mail’s Isabel Oakshott is a hideous person. Alex did his best.
Trying to think of anything not scary about BBC QT tonight. Must visit Hendon Air Museum again soon.
Glenda Slag from the Daily Heil was very cowardly on the appalling slagging her disgusting newspaper dishes to anyone not a far right loon. Or, Daily Heil’s crew of neo fascists and world beating perverts, are also cowards out in the open, shock.
I think it is now safe to assume that the “love bombing ” will be off the menu at the next referendum ,All the better. Still laughing here.
@ Sinky at 10:37pm …….. ‘Tax-Payers Alliance’.
Sinky a number of newspapers are running with this story (figures) now such as the Express. I just hope that someone is working on producing some facts in relation to an Independent Scotland’s (approximate) economy. These of course won’t take into account companies that may relocate to Scotland and / or additional contracts that we may acquire from the EU.
………………..
Question Time: Dumblebum making sure that Alex didn’t get a chance to counter comments that Scotland is a financial basket case. Totally despicable wee BBC propagandist.
Isabel Oakeshott, Daily Mail, an arrogant, ignorant, nasty piece of work.
………………..
@ Glamaig …. ‘List’.
Posted at last! I’ll try and dig out the list relating solely to Gordon Brown now.
…………….
I watched a news item on ITV earlier tonight about the Yemen. The story related to what’s happening to the people other than them being blown to smithereens: that is that they are now dying of starvation due to equipment for unloading boats having been destroyed / fishermen no longer being able to fish and so on. Adults were questioned holding their babies. The babies in fact were 2 / 3 years old. Babies and adults were clearly suffering from extreme malnutrition. The journalist with the sorrowful tone of voice went on and on about their hellish suffering and yet at no point was there any mention of the fact that we’ve, UK, been contributing greatly to their suffering. I just wonder how many people in the UK are totally blind to what’s going on on this Planet due to being brainwashed by the media.
Thanks Nana 🙂
The Taxpayers Alliance are a bunch of far right Tory sock puppets. They are a semi-detached, supposed, think tank with the aim of reducing public expenditure and flying kites for right wing Tories. In short they particularly want to cut taxes for the rich and severely cut back on the state sector. Public sector workers are agents of the Devil as far as they are concerned.
If my memory serves me correctly they do not publish much details about the financing of their organisation and a couple of their bods don’t even live in the UK for tax reasons. Unsurprisingly, they dislike every political party to the left of John Redwood.
Their dislike of the SNP and Scottish politics generally is not a surprise. It is a badge of honour
Nor sure that the undecided in the BMG poll is that clrar. But it’s also not the only problem. Not only didn’t they ask those who were already for a new referendum if they’d change their minds, pointless though that might have seemed, they also didn’t ask those who were initially undecided. Who knows how many of them would want another referendum then? At least I’m taking it as read that they didn’t ask rather than didn’t report.
In short the actual support for a referendum if a full English Brexit is on the cards might be even higher than 55%
Another horrendous QT. Bit galling some spotty yoof TELLING Alex how bankrupt Scotland is, egged on by that blonde harridan. However, Alex managed to stun some into silence by asking why does the Treasury want to hang on so bad?
Even the booing of Thornberry when she rather clumsily made the point about loss of jobs was embarrassing. Not because they are rude, or have no right to express themselves, but because it’s denial of the bloody facts!
But then it’s easy to rubbish facts, if you read and believe the lie sheets pumped out daily.
How do those booing avoid reading any of the MANY signs and facts that the country is on the brink of ruin, and the Tories just keep insulting various countries that we will have all this free trade with?
It’s genuinely hard watching the levels of stupidity on display.
@mike cassidy says: 13 October, 2016 at 2:33 pm:
” … And here’s Alex Massie’s reaction to Nicola Sturgeon.
link to archive.is
Do I detect a slight whiff of excrement?”
Nah! You need to get a nasal decongestant, Mike. What your nose detected was a whole cesspit of the stuff.
What kind of congenital idiot makes a remark so utterly stupid as Massie did just there? The United Kingdom is not a country in any shape or form. It is, as it has been since its inception a bipartite union of two, equally sovereign, kingdoms.
No British countries singed that document. Even the Kingdom of Scotland, which is also a single country, signed it as a Kingdom. Her partner Kingdom in the deal was the Kingdom of England that, at the time of signing, was comprised of the three countries of England itself, Wales & Ireland. However, That Kingdom of England had annexed the Principality of Wales in 1248 by, “The Statute of Rhuddlan”. It also had annexed the Kingdom of Ireland by the Irish, “Crown or Ireland Act”, (1542).
So this idiot Massie chunters on about saving the Union by allowing Scotland to leave. How in hades can there still be a United Kingdom when one partner of a bipartite union leaves?
The Kingdom of England that signed up to the Union already contained Wales & Ireland but it was NOT a United Kingdom of countries as both Wales & Ireland were annexed under the laws that all three sovereignties were then subject to. That is the Divine Right of Kings. Under which a monarch who defeated another monarch in battle just made the defeated sovereign state a part of their existing kingdom.
The same law applied if a King married the Queen of another sovereign state. Males married and took over the Queen’s Kingdom. Devine Right also applied if a monarch inherited another kingdom.
The point is that the three country Kingdom of England did NOT abandon The Divine Right of Kings in 1688. They retained the Divine right but forced King Billy & Queen Mary to retain their Divine Right but delegate the Royal Right to Rule to the Parliament of England. Thus England, Wales & Ireland became a Constitutional Monarchy and it is that constitutional monarchy that signed to be an equally sovereign partner kingdom along with Scotland.
Quite simple you cannot form a United Kingdom with only one Kingdom. Massie is a total numptie. When Scotland leaves the Union ends.
Made the mistake of listening to QT tonight. BBC lies are not diminishing!
Alex was great as usual but Tory guy, Damien Green says Nicola has no mandate and the only reason she is announcing a 2nd Indy ref is ‘bluster to distract us from the fact that her government is doing their day job really badly’; school standards are falling; fewer deprived children are going to uni; people are waiting longer for help from the police.
It’s all a ploy to distract us from the recognition that as a government they are VERY, VERY POOR, so there! How dare they try to get out of their box! Get back in there and keep quiet! Oh, and he doesn’t think we should be allowed to have another ref!
Alex said Nicola has a mandate of 47% of the vote, elected on the manifesto promising a referendum and put a very strong, positive case.
Horrible Daily Mail woman said our economic case has been shredded, now worse than Greece, how will we pay our welfare bill without them? Members of the audience trashed us and then one guy suggested that the English, Welsh and Northern Irish should have a referendum as to whether they want the UK to be split up.
Dimbleby couldn’t wait to get off the subject and def. gave Alex no opportunity to reply.
Also, one guy earlier on said he wanted Trump to be elected – think he was this week’s special audience plant. Trashed Hilary. Didn’t recognise his lapel badge but it had a prominent St. George’s Cross.
What a dreadful programme.
ScottishPsyche
I watched QT and thought many in the audience completely ignorant of the implications of leaving the single market. A can of worms has been well and truly opened and there is no way back.
People talking about respecting the will of the people and getting on with it- making the best of it like a natural disaster has struck… madness.
QT is ridiculous of course- audience well stacked with right wingers with wee prepared pseudo facts. I like Emily Thornberry and think if she wasn’t being ambushed and attacked from all sides she actually speaks sense on most things. She made a perfectly valid, even powerful point about people unwittingly voting for their neighbour to lose their job and it was idiotically distorted by the Dimbleby and the audience.
Alex was measured, good humoured and impressive as ever. The audience seemed to react with anger in direct proportion to the amount of common sense expressed by Alex and Emily T.
As for the risible question teeing up the routine Scotland bashing we seem to be becoming broadly despised south of the border- leave voters can’t cope with the dissent or the foreboding and negativity whilst the remainers probably feel betrayed, jaded and that Scottish Independence will make matters worse for them (which it will in the short to medium term).
We have to look after our own best interests and that means one path and one path only- as an independent member state within the EU.
Don’t watch Sky New paper review, It will make you blood pressure go up, I nearly throw my remote at the telly, Stig from Sun said if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 we would be a bankrupt nation all because our whole economy is based on Oil. The UK is already a bankrupt in many ways morally and financially.
The UK, which has so many inflammable issues, has been set alight by Brexit. When the fire eventually dies down, only dust and ashes, mostly, will remain. In the meantime, Scotland will be gone, free at last.
Over at the Groaniard, the article on Nicola’s speech has 9,000 comments. For a wee backwater of no consequence a shit storm and half has been stirred.
Don’t know why you guys watch QT – you know it is going to be awful before you start. It ceased being interesting political dialogue years ago. 🙂
I had a stress free evening never watched QT and avoided radio 5 live too. 🙂
PS:
Two dozen staff face redundancy at BBC Scotland as corporation shakes up productions
link to archive.is
Liam Fox is the taxpayers alliance
They’re the folk who want to scrap the winter fuel allowance
They’re the folk who want to reclassify the state pension as a benefit thereby removing the triple lock plus we all know what happens when you call a thing a benefit
They’re the folk who come up with every vile legislative idea for the Tories to see if they can get them through
They’re the real Tory government
I hpoe another indy ref gets the right result a free scotland will be welcomed by the rest of europe,I as a born border berwick on tweed north side! I will vote yes europe is good for us and fu** it to the May gov we can make a good country, Scotland is a country not a bit part of Englandshire. But only when the time is right I hope it will be yes 2018, 2020. 2019 looks good early may ie the 3rd of may 2019 indy, before the euro vote, brexit later will have to getover the euro mep vote.
silver19 says:
14 October, 2016 at 12:49 am
Don’t watch Sky New paper review, It will make you blood pressure go up, I nearly throw my remote at the telly, Stig from Sun said if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 we would be a bankrupt nation all because our whole economy is based on Oil. The UK is already a bankrupt in many ways morally and financially.
Thing is Silver he wasn’t even the worst … that title goes to his side kick (from the Observer I think 😉 )who made the usual “claim” that Scotland is a basket case. 😛
Needless to say I fired off more than a couple of tweets to Sky news over their newspaper reviewers complete lack of understanding of how independence in Scotland works! 😀
Silver 19;
Saw that bloon too. Can’t we get someone on telly breaking down these ” Scotland would be bankrupt ” statements?
Businesses considering ‘an independent Scotland’ after Brexit vote
link to archive.is
Swinney says SNP could keep pound policy in new referendum
link to archive.is
Just seen the John McTernan tweet.
I’m starting to think all those jokes about “Wee Johnnie” the class idiot were real stories from the life of John McTernan.
I see that Tusk is now stating that it will be “A hard Brexit or no Brexit at all.” Sorry can’t post the link.
That’ll save Theresa May and the 3 Brexiteers from sitting in a huddle trying to formulate a deal.
They are over and out and of course will be fuming that they have no control over this …. being very controlling people.
Great too that this has coincided with Nicola’s Indyref2 announcement at the Convention and with no guesswork involved now she and her team / s can get on with finalising reports. Helpful too as she’s supposed to be meeting T May soon. How I’d love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting.
Whenever these uneducated weasels spout their lies about
Scotland’s unmanageable debt/deficit and how we would be
basket case/bankrupt within ten minutes of being independent,
we must highlight the unmentionable £1.62 TRILLION debt the
UK has, and is seen by our media/BBC etc. as no big deal.
Just done a wee tour of the usual suspects and read up on the aftermatch report on QT in the comments here.
😀 LOL
I see we’re still a basket case, deluded, a bankruptcy waiting to happen etc, etc. Mmmmm, just wonderin’ like? But isn’t it nice of these very patient (if somewhat tetchy) folk to put up with such a burdensome neighbour as Scotland?
I mean, from the outrage in the commentariat columns, to the downright grumpiness in the comments below their measured, painstakingly researched and objective articles, it’s a wonder they’d want to prevent such an ungrateful lodger from ‘leaving’ at all.
Oooor…
Or we’re seeing Scotland’s true relationship with rUK in living colour. We’re seeing a very politically invested right wing media beat their troops into a froth in an attempt to intimidate Scotland’s electorate. To browbeat, bully, frighten… abuse into submission.
Pretty isn’t it? And of course we’ve quite tiresomely seen it ALL before and we know who it’s aimed at. Our families, our parents, our grandparents. No, I’m not overly impressed with them either.
ALL that friendship and empathy. Can’t you just feel the lurve created by the Westminster political and media narrative? The inevitable end result of the language of hatred and abuse, used by the author and the messenger, is to generate on the one hand hatred and abuse in those who read and believe the message. On the other? Fear.
Who knew?
And if the content of the message is based on political expediency, lies, misinformation? What happens do you think when this becomes exposed through time and events? Where will the rage of those readers and viewers fall if the former object of their blind rage is no longer there to abuse? If the target of their abuse has moved on and turned its back on their abusers? Hmmm?
Something the authors and their pet messengers better start thinking about. Their current victims have heard their message before. They know who they need to protect and hold a hand out to this time round.
Mind you, perhaps they have thought of this? Perhaps that’s why you can practically smell the fear in their words and actions. At some point those whom they have abused, whom they have manipulated to rage or fear will be looking directly in their direction and quite rightly asking some pointed questions?
Tick tock.
Macart. QT from RAF Museum in the SE. Rattle ’em sabres !
England on war footing. The Dunkirk spirit. The Battle of Britain. Scotland the subsidy junkie; poorer than Greece. They should count themselves lucky that the plucky English Rose who scribbles for the Mail will still subsidise us. We got a bliddy cheek, we Sweaties have!
Salmond was quieter, more reserved than usual. He knows a set up when he sees one.
QT audiences are getting whiter and more and more far righter.
They are now openly hostile against Scotland and independence. We are England’s colony.
Good.
We are almost there.
Someone should whisper in Boris Johnson’s ear. Donald Tusk is not a cartoon rhinoceros on the Disney channel.He’ll be opposite you at the table in March, Boris.
Tusk is less coy about showing his cards pre negotiations. It’s either Hard Brexit or No Brexit is the EU stance.
So it looks like Indyref 2 is a goer.
Too wee too poor seems to be the BT Fear Factor this time.
Thank the Chief we’re not too stupid, Sam.
To quote the newest Nobel winner:
‘They’re selling postcards of the hanging, they’re painting the passports brown.’
Desolation Row.
(I know, it was on the tip of your tongue.)
The BBC output in Scotland, QT in particular is the epitome of the offence of Hate Crime.
I spoke to a man from England, who once believed the BBC was the finest broadcasting agency in the world. His job took him to Scotland, he didn’t want to go because his wife had a serious illness and he was trying to get the best care for he he could. A workmate told him that his brother had relocated to Scotland and could not believe how much better the NHS was in Scotland. So he came up.
He now votes SNP. Not because he feels Scottish, he doesn’t he told me he is a proud patriotic Englishman, but he now understands the lies! He wants us to become independent, to be the nation we deserve. And in doing so, that will change England forever, the entire English political establishment will be destroyed, and be shown to be nothing like the thieving lying bastards that they are.
A basket case, charming. Nazi, lovely. Scrounging from you, Really?
I have a message from you, we don’t hate you yet! All we want is for England to be a proud successful country, not the bunch of scumbags you are turning out to be.
As for Dugdale, Davidson, et all, get off your knees, you are embarrassing, taking down Scotland at every opportunity, to gain favour with your Westminster so called betters.
This union is over, even the dogs in the street know that. So what side are you on?
@Jack Collatin
The times, they are a changin’ Jack. 🙂
As I said above, those bastards went after the old in our society. The aged, the infirm and targeted them specifically for fear and abuse.
We know what they did and how they did it. When plucking on red white and blue loyalties fell short, they unleashed Broonmageddon, the sermon on the pound, IDS and the baying mob.
This should never be forgotten or forgiven of the media or their chaintuggers. We hold out our hand to Scotland’s pensioners and let them know we stand BESIDE them. We listen to their fears and put them to rest as best we can, but we let them know a Scottish government WILL NOT abandon them as Westminster has done.
This is the only quarter I will give Kezia and Dugdale, and to a large extent Rennie.
What we ask of them is too much, it’s like asking a office junior to take control in the boardroom.
None of them are personally equipped to become national leaders, that is why their parties put them in position, they are place men and women, completely devoid of the qualities of statesmanship required. Easily controlled, a case in point, riding a tank, not like thatcher actually in the controlling seat, but astride the barrel? Then jumping on to a farm animals back?
Is that anything anyone with a shrewdness and the political acumen would do?
Could you for one second imagine Nicola Sturgeon allowing herself to be put in that position?
@Andrew McLean 7:29
England needs to give itself a good shake and realise the extent to which it’s attitudes Scotland, Europe, the Middle East, and immigrants from anywhere has been poisoned by decades of pernicious xenophobia from its media, and especially its esteemed BBC.
The next few few years will see England steering a lonely path towards rediscovering itself, but that journey can’t even begin until they see their broadcast media for what it is.
I cannot wait to see the BBC turned off in Scotland permanently, and I earnestly hope our written constitution is not so fawning over the freedom of speech that anything as hateful as the BBC or wider UKOK media has to be tolerated. Freedom of speech should not be abused as lisence to manipulate the truth and agitate hatred and prejudice. Freedom of truth should be it’s much more onerous stablemate, yet even these phrases now simply remind me or Orwells Animal Farm.
Links
link to indyref2.scot
link to tommyballgovan.blogspot.co.uk
scottish-independence-back-table-brexit-means-nicola-sturgeon-can-have-her-cake-eat-it
link to archive.is
link to europeanfutures.ed.ac.uk
link to archive.is
Guardian says SNP bad, bad, badder, baddest but maybe Sturgeon can save us UK Remoaners.
“It’s not just that Brexit has failed to generate the support for independence that many expected. It’s also that Sturgeon’s own satisfaction ratings among Scots have fallen sharply, down by 12 points since April. She now trails the Tories’ Ruth Davidson on satisfaction. The inference is that it is time for Sturgeon to deliver.”
Sturgeon now trails the Tories, The Guardian.
link to newsnet.scot?
link to autonomyscotland.org?
link to euobserver.com
link to consilium.europa.eu
Good morning,Jack,Macart and Andrew
Just popped in to see if Nana’s links were in.
Peace Always
link to thebutterflyrebellion.scot?
link to theferret.scot
link to tarffadvertiser.blogspot.co.uk
link to thecanary.co
Mornin’ Smallaxe.
Wouldn’t miss Nana’s links. 🙂
@Smallaxe
Good morning.
Times ligger gets pelters, but jam tomorrow The Vow style, he knows does Kenfarq. BBC r4 Today show explains to Sturgeon how shite Scotland is, so shut up and go away. Neat UKOK double whammy.
Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq 41m41 minutes ago
Even pro-UK people should be able to recognise the usefulness of SNP indyref2 threats to get best deal for Scotland in post-Brexit Britain.
Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq 12h12 hours ago
/ I got pelters for about 12 hours. Perhaps now that Sturgeon is saying the same thing maybe I’ll get an apology or two? Maybe not.
Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq 12h12 hours ago
A couple of days ago I spent a long time on Twitter arguing with Nats that they should advance Scottish interests within Brexit Britain. /
Morning Nana,Kettle is ready for blast off,see you later.
Peace,Love and Links xx
UKOK hacks are a hoot though. What a bunch.
link to archive.is
I sadly watched a small part of QT last night, and boy was it shocking. I mean shocking in the sense that so many in that audience in England seemed overjoyed they were going to be made poorer, with higher food prices, a lower pound, and a generally increased level of society wide poverty. Who cares if Nissan moves out of Sunderland?
Yet, when one of them was asked why? the response was just the usual vague sloganeering – controlling immigration (much of the UK imigration is from outside the EU, and yet successive Westminster governments did little about it – including a certain home secretary Theresa May), besides EU migrants come here to work, and pay taxes, and actually benefit the economy. The other reason was getting back ‘our’ sovereignty – something that had never been lost from Westminster.
I’d say these people are deluded, and have been mis led by a rampant right wing media.
However, what really shocked me, was that anybody pointing out REALITY, like the pound crashing day by day, was literally boo’d. ‘You are just a ‘remoaner’, get over it, etc.. etc..
I’d be infavour of leaving the EU too if I thought it was a good idea, but it simply isn’t. It is fed in England by this wishy dream-like notion of ‘the good old days’ when Britain was GREAT. When we ruled the world, and countries everyhwere listened. Rule Britannia etcc.. let’s re-launch the Royal Yacht and so on. It is delusional.
I have news for those people, their is no empire, the world simply does NOT sit up and listen when London speaks on anything nowadays, and the bizarre notion that although our food from the EU will be maybe 25% more expensive, we can start trading with Australia and get ‘cheap’ Oz wine, or form trade deals with China etc.. All of these countries around the globe will happily do a trade deal with the UK, of course, but the UK is sooooo tiny, that the terms will never be good for the UK.
Then there is the ‘but the UK is the world’s
5th6th largest economy’. The fact is, the top three golbal economies make up over 50% of world economic power. Being 6th largest is nothing to brag about. It is relatively inconsequential.The English, collectively, have gone mad, and their so-called leaders have literally abdicated their true responsibilities. Crazy, crazy times.
Independence is no longer just desirable for Scotland, it is now becoming essential for our very survival. It cannot come soon enough.
A wannabe Ligger Neil puts the UKOK boot in,
Iain Martin ?@iainmartin1 17m17 minutes ago
Eventually England will demand referendum in England just so don’t have to listen to Sturgeon on radio/TV chuntering on about independence
Morning, @clipper
I can confirm I received my BBC stickers.
Proud cybernat has done us proud!
Time to stick it to them……
@ Nana – excellent article in the Canary about how the MSM is smearing anyone who dares to get involved in the democratic process. The Times, paper of record, owned by Rupert Murdoch as is the New York Times, sets the tone. Prime targets are Corbyn supporters and the Scottish Independence movement. Dangerous.
Happily, it looks as though any Progressive movement may form a combined front to defeat the MSM. Hope so.
Good news was that below that article was a link to Chunky Mark’s rant on Marmite!
link to youtube.com
Macart says:
“Its spooky how the SNP keep telling folk exactly what they mean to do and carry out their duties as required by the situation they find themselves in.
In fact its spookier that the press are so surprised”
I read something like this somewhere in the past week …
“Unionists are like goldfish swimming round a bowl constantly surprised by the toy castle.”
It is an odd phenomenon, Unionists being surprised that the SNP actually carry out what they say, especially the media.
It could of course just be pretendy surprise to help make a negative point. And we are well aware they believe a section of voters do indeed appear to have memories like goldfish!
Or, it does look as if there is widespread denialism and cognitive dissonance in the minds of Unionists. Their believe system has their exceptional UKOK world view as the only possible reality. Then when confronted by the proposal that UKSucks and Scotland should take a different path, Unionists are only capbable of very muddled thinking!
Robert Louis at 8:43am
Good description of the madness gripping England. Remember, more than half of them voted for very right wing parties in the general election (Con+UKIP), so the shift to beguilingly simplistic right wing politics began before the Brexit vote.
These guys should really be wearing pith helmets, if they are in Glasgow this week. BBC r4 Today says they are coming up to the SNP conference tomorrow, also in pith helmets.
Martin Kettle ?@martinkettle 21h21 hours ago
Nicola Sturgeon’s speech in Glasgow today was not, repeat not, the speech of a woman who intends an indyref2 any time soon. Brinkwomanship
MichaelWhite ?@michaelwhite 46m46 minutes ago Kingston upon Thames, London
Nicola Sturgeon’s arguments for Scexit carry same risks (more?) as those for Brexit. But on @BBCr4today she is a very formidable operator
Nicola started twice as popular as Davidson. SNP voters 46%. Tory voters 22%. Any polling result for Nicola would have to be doubled. YES is up to 55% YES, YES, YES. That is without the mess that letter 50 is going to deliver. If the Tories dare frame it. Thatcher all over again but worse. Under a FPTP Westminster system the Tories and the rest of the ‘opposition’ would have been wiped out in Holyrood. Instead of the 3rd rejections regurgitating. The BBC and MSM completely do not report the different electoral systems. Deliberately or incompetent and ignorantly?
Could the Tories make a bigger mess if they tried. No wonder people feared their return. Cameron the worse PM in history. The fall in the £ has lost £Billions in the British economy. The lies, the cheat, the spin. Farague has disappeared to the US trying to rake in more money in. What a chancer. He is a crook who should have been put in jail long ago, for funding a Political Party with public money.
The ‘pycho bastards’ wants to start a war with Russia. They think Russia is going to invade? Complete nonsense. Trident will be going. The US do not want it here. McMillian illegally and secretly dumped it in Scotland.
The played out refrain ‘Scotland is a ‘ basket case economy’ Total lies. The Westminster political mess of debt. Scotland would be a productive, prosperous more equal, fairer country. Scotland has always been in surplus which was taken illegally and secretly by Westminster liars. A £300Billion Oil fund has been wasted. Westminster’s illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Westminster Unionist multimillionaires and their associates squander and plunder public funds at every opportunity. eg Hinkley Point and HS2. In consultancy fees, interest payments, banking fees/charges and fraud.
The latest economic policy costing Scotland £Billions taxing the Oil and Gas sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%, losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Scotland could have had nearly full employment. A low unemployment rate, with less welfare benefits. The tax is now 40% from Jan 2016. Untaxed fracked US gas is now being imported. Putting up the balance of trade deficit and the debt.
Scotland has to make debt repayment on money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Nearly £4Billion, loses £3Billion in tax evasion, could put a tax on ‘loss leading drink’, £1Billion. Gain £4Billion+ in Oil & Gas revenues, cut nearly £1Billion from Trident. Total equals £13Billion – the ‘Deficit’, caused by Westminster policies. Scotland can’t borrow to invest in the economy. The VOW of extra powers was reneged upon and not delivered.
Scotland loses the opportunity for £Billions of EU renewable Grants because of Westminster indecision. The CCS projects promised worth £Billions were reneged upon. Longannet and Peterhead. Coal is plentiful all over Scotland. Scotland received extra CAP payments, Westminster took it. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU.
The Tories have banned coal production, banned wind turbines in England, cut investment in renewable. Wind, wave and solar. Imagine is every building where applicable had solar panels how much cleaner, cheaper energy would be produced. Nuclear waste is being flown around the world. A disaster waiting to happen.
Scotland is doing much better under SNP Gov policies but would do even better without Westminster gross interference. Andrew Neil is a Tory alcoholic who needs proper rehab treatment. A total BBC liar along with the rest of them. An insult.
The only legacy the Labour/Unionist/Green will leave Aberdeen City is the grotesque appalling monstrosity in the City Centre costing £Millions to add to their gross mismanagement. The only thing to do would be to knock it down. The attacker in the recent investigation was reported to a Councillor and MP for attacking another youngster. Nothing was done. The investigation is now being covered up. The full Report is not being publicly released.
Scotland raises £54Billion in taxes. Spends £56Billion without the UK policies. The UK raises £515Billion. The rest of the UK raises £461Billion. Divide by 11 (pop 11/12) = £42Billion pro rata. The rest of the UK borrows and spends another £75Billion + plus a £20Billion black hole (factored in as growth – which never happens) £95Billion, although it is said to have fallen. Scotland has to make repayment on the borrowing – nearly £4Billion, although it isn’t borrowed or spent in Scotland.
@ heedtracker – that Sun attack article on Paul Mason should be a case study for budding WoS style bloggers. Spot the smeary memes:
Corbyn’s firebrand celebrity guru
devastating verdic
labour’s hapless leader
Mason sups posh beer
“The conversation – at the troubled party’s conference in Liverpool two weeks ago – was recorded by a bystander and passed to The Sun.”
Pleased to read that Paul Mason “issued a diatribe of vile abuse at the newspaper” although, like everything else in the piece, it’s probably a lie.
link to archive.is
‘..We’re just 6 million…’
Lol.
@ galamcennalath
‘Cognative dissonance’ is one explanation and probably the kindest that could be applied. 😀
In fact I’m sure it does apply to some of them and almost certainly their readerships.
How and ever, for the vast bulk of the media, I agree its a simple and effective method of explaining away their basic dishonesty and misrepresentation.
Re QT last night.
I think the SNP should never put up any more panellists to this programme. Why, after the way they are generally treated by ‘selected’ audiences should they bother?
Fortunately Alex kept very calm, but others would have been hard pressed to. Dimbledum was his usual self!!
These right wing English, representative, audiences are either ‘selected’ or it is now true that all English people do hate the Scots. Whichever, there is no point putting our people up to be ‘Aunt Sallys’.
England, in general, seems to appreciate little or nothing about the Scottish situation – it’s way too late to change them (and they don’t have any vote in Indyref anyway), so why bother?
I am working down South at the moment.Just had a conversation with a Northeast guy working with me.
“Aye bonnie lad weel let you go but first weel bomb the shit out of Scotland”
Great to be part of this UKOK
In the past I can recall many instances when someone from the SNP was being interviewed by the Yoon media and the interview suffered from ‘technical problems’, one recent one in which Skys Kay Burley was interviewing Nicola Sturgeon outside Westminster. There was clearly work being carried out in the area that sounded like a drill or a constant aeroplane noise.
What I noticed was that when Kay was talking to her in-house correspondents, the noise was there, but bearable, however when she started talking to Nicola, the noise level became unbearable to the point it was almost pointless trying to work out what Nicola was saying. Yet somehow when the interview was over and she went back to her Sky colleague, the sound was quieter again.
Technical difficulties when dealing with the SNP, coincidental or intentional,
link to twitter.com
Is this what we really aspire to, to be obedient retainers to have the piss taken out of us at the slightest whim?
“We’re struggling to imagine there being anyone who wants independence but would switch to voting No because they hadn’t wanted there to be another referendum just yet.”
There is somebody, and the BBC managed to find her for a soundbite for Good Morning Scotland today.
The deluded MSM fail to report it was Westminster UK policies which caused the migration crisis in Europe. Britain, France and the US” Illegal wars and arming and supporting ‘Rebels’. Taking down legitimate government leaving chaos in their wake. Britain, France and the US carved up the Middle East and took their resources for nearly 100 years. France in Syria, Algeria. Britain in Iraq and Iran. They even supported Itaq invading Iran. Churchill/US M15/CIA (official documents are in Washington) overthrew the Iranian MP and put him in jail, Took all the Oil resources and re imposed the deposed Shah.
The Balfour Agreement 1917. Lloyd George established a right to a Jewish State on ailing Ottoman territory land. Israel is now an Apartheid State. The US/UK France support the most absolute despot monarchies in the world. Policies in Israel and Saudia Arabia would not be tolerated in the US/UK and France. The UK and US having caused the migration crisis in Europe want to leave without engaging in a solution but keep bombing Syria. If every country took a quota of refugees it would help find a solution.
Londinium and its shot callers are vehement that they are going to slash and burn anything anyone who doesn’t pay their way, think they call it austerity.
Since Scotland is the biggest drain on their economy why are we the only basket case they are frantic to hold onto.
Maybe we are a very handy whipplng boy that you can take your frustrations out on and unite your English classes in a focal point of derision and revenge.
SO WHY ARE THEY TERRIFIED OF LOOSING POOR WEE SCOTLAND? If we cost them so much and are as much use as a chocolate teapot.
That’s the establishments viewpoint, understandable maybe. What the proud Scots but angle is? Now that’s a whole new mind set. Even god almighty couldn’t make sense of that enigma.
This post is off-topic
DDid anyone else notice the horrendous boob on the Herald website last night?
In reporting the death of that poor wee toddler in a road accident, they had it happening in: COOPER Angus.
I despair of what that paper has become.
First ,let me state that I know for sure Scotland is sound enough economically.
However ,let us propose that what the commentators say is true in that we have a deficit of billions. Fair enough.
The major problem with their argument is that due to Brexit we are most definitely going to have a deficit far in excess of the claimed( £15 billion) if the current trends in the business and financial sectors continue. It is a racing certainty.
Therefore the choice is between those two things. At least with independence the future is what WE make of it. The financial case to block independence may have persuaded some people last time out, but it no longer holds water.
As for the timing of IndyRef2, I’m no expert in human evolution, but I believe that it has to happen around the spring/summer of 2018 for the best chance of success, at a time when most people have woken up from their winter ‘human hibernation state’, and still have a positive optimistic ‘can do’, ‘anything is possible’ attitude about the coming months ahead of them, and the future of Scotland.
@clipper
I received my stickers this week and am busy getting them distributed.
Thanks to Proud Cybernat for his hard work 🙂
SNP Conference livestream beginning
link to youtube.com
I would be impressed if the EU once article 50 is trigger comes out and issues clear statements on Scotland’s continuing membership is the EU.
Statements explaining we would not have to rejoin but continued membership
Since it is continued membership the Spain veto garbage is irrelevant.
Euro is a choice for Scotland that could be decided once in as an autonomous member.
From what I can gather so far these seem to be the main points being flogged by the yoons and media.