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Wings Over Scotland


The Thief Of Time

Posted on November 23, 2022 by

So it’s official – Scotland is not a partner in the UK, but a prisoner. Supposedly equal signatories to a treaty, we were in fact captured in 1707, with no hope of release other than at the whim of our jailer. It is an outrage, but a wholly predictable one.

Nicola Sturgeon could have put the matter of Holyrood’s legislative authority to the Supreme Court at any point since she became First Minister in November 2014. More particularly, she could have done so in July 2016, after the UK voted to leave the EU, thereby triggering a clear and explicit condition of the manifesto on which the SNP were re-elected as the Scottish Government just weeks earlier.

Instead, she’s wasted a decade of your time and probably sold Scotland’s future.

Had the matter been put to the Court and decided in 2016, the Scottish Government would have known where it stood. It could have conducted either the 2017 or 2019 UK general elections, or the 2021 Scottish election, as the plebiscite it now belatedly says it will hold in two years’ time.

It would have had an incredibly strong platform – “Vote Yes To Keep Scotland In The EU Before It’s Too Late”, a wish shared by exactly the sort of 60%+ majority it has long claimed to have wanted before holding a second vote – along with all the political momentum anyone could ever hope for (even including support from the Unionist media), and a united Yes movement still bursting with energy and enthusiasm.

(Ignore any idiot telling you Scotland would have been ejected from the EU anyway. The EU has never once forced out a people who were already members and wanted to stay that way. There might perhaps have been a very brief technical period of non-membership while the necessary paperwork was done, but it would have been covered by holding legislation to ensure a swift and smooth transition. Countless EU figures have said as much in the plainest possible terms.)

Every penny of smart money would have been on Scotland voting Yes when faced with a clear and stark choice between independence in Europe or a hard Tory Brexit.

But now? Now leaving the EU is a fait accompli and reentry would be much longer and harder. The SNP has – consciously and purposely – broken the spirit of the grassroots Yes movement (for proof see the turnout at today’s rallies) and failed to make a single step of headway in the polls despite every conceivable advantage of circumstances.

A plebiscite vote in 2024 – and we have next to no faith that the SNP will actually go through with that – will likely be conducted in the midst of a chaotic and severe recession, the worst possible time to be advocating major national upheaval. Despite having most of a decade to work on it, the party has spectacularly failed to come up with answers to any of the questions that cost us votes in 2014. For most of that time it hasn’t even been trying.

It has deliberately destroyed the reputation of Scotland’s greatest and most effective politician with false smears, and sidelined or driven out all of its most able and experienced campaigners, replacing them with rafts of catastrophically inept gender ideologues or snivelling cowards terrified to express their own thoughts lest they share the fate of people like Alex Salmond and Joanna Cherry and Kenny MacAskill.

Is it still theoretically possible we could win? Yes. Two years is a long time in politics. But the odds are overwhelmingly against it now. What could turn opinion when the last few years of Binfire UK haven’t? The best opportunities by far have been missed.

Nicola Sturgeon has single-handedly undone generations of work by people who spent their whole lives bringing the Scottish National Party to the position that she’s so abysmally squandered. It’s not just the last eight years she’s wasted, but the eight decades before them. She will be remembered as Scottish politics’ worst failure, and its gravest betrayer for 315 years.

If she had a shred of decency or dignity she would resign today over her fatal delay in obtaining this ruling. But she won’t, and between now and 2024 her toxic, incompetent, arrogant and divisive administration will destroy the last tattered hopes of the independence movement as she clings desperately to power for its own sake.

We are not surprised. But our anger is almost beyond description.

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    419 to “The Thief Of Time”

    1. solarflare says:

      Is she even going to give an interview today, or just hide behind a couple of tweets?

    2. Calum says:

      History will not be kind to Sturgeon. Hope the Stonewall points were worth it.

    3. Grouser says:

      Just about to email Nicola Sturgeon to demand her resignation for all the reasons given above.

    4. Rab Davis says:

      Rev,

      We all know what we CAN’T do,,,

      What is your opinion on things we CAN do?

    5. Breeks says:

      Death to Holyrood. Scotland’s Parish Council is irrelevant – official. RIP.

      Get your folks signing up to SALVO’s Liberation Organisation. That’s now your YES vote, so get it done and back the Convention of the Estates which takes our Red Sovereignty and Claim of Right to the UN.

      We’ve wasted enough time on Sturgeon’s feckless SNP.

      Has she resigned yet? Who the fuck cares? She only leads a Parish Council.

    6. Robert Louis says:

      Angry at it all. Angrier than I have ever been. Angry at imposed ENGLISH colonial rule over Scotland by a Government we do not want and did not vote for.

      In my opinion, aside from Sturgeon’s utter failure, England no longer has ANY say in what Scotland does. It is a foreign power, interfering in Scotland’s matters. That is how they should be addressed in future, that is how they need to be treated. They are a colonial cabal stealing Scotland’s wealth and resources, all the while sneering at the people of Scotland. They are beneath contempt.

      We need to stop giving succour to their diktat over Scotland, and the SNP and ALBA need to walk out of Westminster, never to return.

      Either dissolve the Scottish government (which Sturgeon can do) for a plebiscite election early next year, or convene a convention of the estates of Scotland as per the Scottish claim of right and constitution, and end the union.

      This will not do. Literally burning up with anger right now. How dare little England dictate when or if Scotland can have democracy. How dare they. To hell with them.

    7. Stoker says:

      Sturgeon states on her Twitter account:

      “Scottish democracy will not be denied. Today’s ruling blocks one route to Scotland’s voice being heard on independence – but in a democracy our voice cannot and will not be silenced. I’ll make a full statement later this morning – tune in around 11.30am”

      Who is she trying to fool? What’s she going to do now? Call for a gathering of ‘rainbow flags’ to vent our boo’s? We knew this decision was coming but its confirmation doesn’t make it any easier. Far from it. Scotland is being governed by a bunch of deceptive self-servers operating within a glorified county council.

    8. Rab Davis says:

      And who’s surprised at the judgement today?

      The detested English bastards were always going to order us to shut up eat our porridge.

      In the eyes of our English rulers,, Scotland is nothing more than another Shire of Greater England.

      And our dear leader has fucked up big time.

      I wonder what is going through the heads of her loyal fan base?

    9. Big Jock says:

      She has failed in her mission to deliver a referendum in 2023. That is enough to get sacked. She won’t resign of course. What she should do is resign from Holyrood and call a Scottish Election based on independence. Then take the result to the UN.

    10. Robert Hughes says:

      ( posted on previous in error )

      The English ( spare us the bollocks about the * UK * SC – it’s a English creation whose overriding priority is the preservation of English judicial supremacy ) legal High Command just took Scotland’s – always tenuous/notional – autonomy out into the street n shot it like a dog ; as I and the minority voted in the above poll it would .

      Not claiming any great prescience here . I just thought it was more likely * they * would take the opportunity to put the last nail in that particular coffin .

      One positive , there will now not be a Referendum next year – SHOCKER !! – so if Hopeless Hannah was planning to use the * delivery * of that as her exit music – cue discordant violins .

      The obverse negative is we’re stuck with her until after the next UKGE – at least . If there wasn’t so much at stake , it may have been possible to derive some compensatory satisfaction in watching her rapidly diminishing credibility evaporate completely .

      But there IS so much at stake . The only true satisfaction will come when she’s seen walking out of Bute House – forever .

      As failures go , hers is of world-historical proportions

    11. Jim Bo says:

      I feel your anger Stu. We feel it too.

    12. Robert Louis says:

      Get to one of the demo’s being held tonight. Get angry. This cannot be simply allowed to stand. Democracy is OUR right. We are Scotland, and will NOT EVER be silenced.

      The demos tonight are for independence, not the SNP. If you support Scottish democracy and freddom from English colonial rule, then move heaven and earth to get to one of the demos tonight. Their are fifteen across Scotland and several in Europe. This is the day. This is the moment. Demand our leaders to stand up for Scotland. Demand they act. ANY supposedly pro independence politicians who do not turn up tonight, will be seen for the charlatans and careerist frauds they are.

      http://www.timeforscotland.scot/

    13. Alastair Campbell says:

      I started watching the English SC and was hopeful of a positive judgement as is saw Scotland’s observers in the courtroom those Titans Law SNP spokesperson for Justice Anne McLaughlin MP and Glasgow Cllr Graham Campbell. What could go wrong.

    14. Rab Davis says:

      Stoker 10.44 am

      She’ll tell us that only a vote for the SNP in the next General Election will save us.

      A Plebiscite election will be her favoured choice of weapon.

      And then she will ask Westminster for a Section 30 Order,,, again.

      Westminster will say No,,,so Sturgeon will take it to the Supreme Court,,, again.

      And round and round we go.

      Sturgeon HAS TO RESIGN.

      But then what?

      Hopefully Rev Stu and his contacts have a cunning plan.

    15. Dave S says:

      its clear now. priority number 1: get rid of sturgeon

    16. G-Man says:

      We’ll, I was wrong. There was no fudge with an Obiter, just a straight ‘NO’.

      Having dropped us in it with the once in a generation tosh (yes, I know it’s not in the S.30 agreement, but that’s not how politics works, is it?) we’re now also saddled with the SNP’s ‘lawful and internationally recognised’ baggage too.

      Quite how all of these can be squared with a electoral referendum (even if done properly, which the SNP won’t do) I don’t know.

      Pretty depressing day really. Thinking of joining Twitter just so I can ‘vent’ at some of them. Though it appears, not being the right ‘sort’, if the past experience of others is anything to go by, I’d probably just be blocked if I did.

    17. StruanBorn says:

      Listening to blubbering Blackford at pmq’s today will be exceptionally funny they’ll love this it means they get that gold encrusted Westminster pension their all after.

      Sell outs the lot of them.

    18. Hatuey says:

      Who said poetry had to be uplifting;

      “She will be remembered as Scottish politics’ worst failure, and its gravest betrayer for 315 years…”

      The ruling was entirely as I expected and predicted. We should thank the Supreme Court for its honesty on the matter — a politely fudged refusal to give a ruling or anything along those lines would have been dishonest.

      And to be perfectly clear, Scotland is and has been a prisoner all along. Those who have qualms about the use of words like “prisoner” and “colony” should consider their positions. In legal and constitutional terms, it would have been deranged for the Supreme Court to arrive at any other decision today.

      Scotland like Scrooge is haunted by the ghosts of its past, present, and future. A lot of people did okay out of the empire and the union but a lot more are left impoverished and redundant by it today.

      In the weeks and months ahead, the ranks of the disgruntled can be expected to grow substantially and if there’s going to be any movement in a positive direction then Alba and the independence movement will need to mobilise — not to win elections, but to win hearts and minds.

    19. Sean says:

      I have nothing but hate in my heart for what they have done.

      Westminster and Holyrood.

    20. Merganser says:

      Those who have read my previous posts on this matter will know that this result is exactly what I said it would be. So what?

      Good question. No comfort in being proved right on this issue. I will never see independence in my lifetime. Unlike Sturgeon, I don’t have time on my side. Many others are in the same position.

      Just remember what I have said about the plebs biscuity election being another of Sturgeon’s cons, and don’t fall for it.

    21. Astonished says:

      Seething.

      Simply Seething. I have e-mailed my MSP and MP both SNP and demanded that they vote out Blackford and Sturgeon. If they don’t I will actively campaign against them.

      I have no interest in Sturgeon’s 11.30am second capitulation speech.

      She has to go.

      I will be at the rally.

    22. sarah says:

      As Grouser says, there is one thing we can all do – email the FM and our SNP MSPs [and MPs]. One word will do – RESIGN.

    23. Robert Louis says:

      Aye English First Minister’s questions will be interesting.

      But to all those above, sounding defeated, this is now in our hands. We can whine on twitter, or actually get to the demos tonight. a huge show of numbers will matter. They are not pro SNP demos, they are pro independence demos.

    24. Biffo says:

      SNP = Power, Corruption and Lies. In the words of John Lydon “Jail time”.

    25. Bill mckay says:

      RESIGN NOW STURGEON AND LET US REPAIR THE DAMAGE

    26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “We all know what we CAN’T do,,,

      What is your opinion on things we CAN do?”

      Jesus fuck I’m fucking tired of answering this fucking question.

      Absolutely nothing can happen that will make any difference until SNP members grow a pair and get rid of Sturgeon.

    27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “We can whine on twitter, or actually get to the demos tonight. a huge show of numbers will matter.”

      Of course it bloody won’t.

    28. Dorothy Devine says:

      I am so sad for my country and so disgusted with the SNP.

    29. Robert Louis says:

      Alex Salmond’s statement on today;

      “The decision of the Supreme Court today is the result of a bad gamble that hasn’t paid off. What should have happened was the Scottish Parliament should have passed the legislation for an independence referendum and forced the UK Government to be the ones that challenged it. Real Parliaments don’t ask for permission to implement their democratic mandate. Although the verdict is hardly a surprise it now begs the question of what is the democratic route for Scots to determine their own future?

      “Unionists should beware in their glee as the lesson of history is that you can postpone democracy but you cannot deny it.

      “The Scottish Government now has the responsibility to find a way forward. They have led the national movement down a complete blind alley to the Supreme Court which astonishingly has gone as far as rejecting Scotland’s right of self determination. That’s what happens when you go to the wrong court with the wrong question.

      “Today‘s decision must now be the spark that ignites a new popular movement like that of the Yes campaign of 2014. ALBA Party have led the way on parliamentary interventions in the UK Parliament and we call on others to join us. This must also be matched by a civic campaign of protest and action across Scotland and an Independence Convention to steer the campaign.

      “Scotland’s future must be placed back in Scotland’s hands – not a parliament or a court in London.“

      Source https://www.albaparty.org/delay_democracy_but_you_can_t_deny_it

    30. Rab Davis says:

      There should be a mass walk out at Westminster by all SNP and ALBA MPs.

    31. Hatuey says:

      Robert Louis, correct me if I’m wrong, but the demos tonight were arranged by Sturgeon’s fan base, no? Genuine question btw.

      If so, what’s the point?

    32. fillofficer says:

      remember, the FM has had a full week to prepare her reaction to todays decision
      her statement at 11.30 should be very profound, unlike jan20

    33. Dave Munro says:

      The “take it to the UN, they’ll listen” claim is thoroughly debunked in the very clear ruling:-

      “The Scotland Act allocates powers between the United Kingdom and Scotland as part of a constitutional settlement. It establishes a
      carefully calibrated scheme of devolution powers. Nothing in the allocation of powers, however widely or narrowly interpreted, infringes any principle of self-determination.
      On the contrary, the legislation establishes and promotes a system of devolution founded on principles of subsidiarity.”

    34. Robert Louis says:

      Hatuey,

      Well, what’s the point of anything? Sounds like some Scots are already defeated, and the fight hasn’t even begun. I will use ANY route to indy, attending demos, goig on marches, voting, whatever. All of it matters, as it raises the questions in the minds of the public, and makes it abundantly clear to the careerist urchins in Holyrood that people demand change. So, yes, numbers do matter. Demos do matter. They do get noticed.

    35. Graf Midgehunter says:

      So that’s that:

      23.11.2022 from this day forth in history, now it’s official that we are a Colony of WM/England.

      The Gauleiter is Nicola Sturgeon.

    36. Stoker says:

      Reproduced with thanks to Robert Louis at 11:07 am:

      From Alex Salmond’s statement:

      “The Scottish Government now has the responsibility to find a way forward. They have led the national movement down a complete blind alley to the Supreme Court which astonishingly has gone as far as rejecting Scotland’s right of self determination. That’s what happens when you go to the wrong court with the wrong question.”

      “Today‘s decision must now be the spark that ignites a new popular movement like that of the Yes campaign of 2014. ALBA Party have led the way on parliamentary interventions in the UK Parliament and we call on others to join us. This must also be matched by a civic campaign of protest and action across Scotland and an Independence Convention to steer the campaign.”

      Full statement: https://www.albaparty.org/delay_democracy_but_you_can_t_deny_it

    37. Robert Louis says:

      filofficer at 11am,

      Yip. what she says at 1130am, is possibly of even greater importance than the ruling from the English court in London.

      We shall see.

    38. Bob Mack says:

      Unfortunately the Supreme Court has stated that democracy is NOT our right. That us the legal position as it stands.

      Now WE have to find a way of upsetting that particular applecart because the SNP can’t.

      Claim of right involves the Scottish peoples emntitlement to choose a sovereign. Imagine we refused to accept Charles and demanded that choice. What a constitutional calamity that would bring about. The Monarch is responsible for giving Royal Assent to any and all Bills passed at both Houses as a legal requirement. Could we disrupt that?

    39. Breeks says:

      11:30 Please, please, please, be a resignation speech.

    40. Desimond says:

      Anyone seen Michael Gove…he must be ready to launch his all out assault on Holyrood powers soon…the games a-bogey, thanks for playing is what Westminster will say as they strip Holyrood down to a shell.

    41. The friendly sassenach says:

      Cheer up a bit. Its not all evil.
      1) I’m convinced that a new referendum would be lost as the groundwork for a convinced Yes vote has not been done. Deliberately of course – see Wings passim. a second defeat really would be the end, ask the Québécois.
      2) the ruling means the end of the illusion that Scotland would get its independence without fighting for it, and, yes, being prepared to make sacrifices in that fight. A split in the UK would destroy the delusions of grandeur in English politics (Brexit, seat at the UN, nuclear weapons etc etc). It would force us to accept that were a bit like Spain or Holland. that would be a great thing, which is why this sassenach supports you. But it would mean the total ruin of the political class, which is why you won’t get it this way. Progress lies in being clear about this.
      3) Never fear, you will get your freedom when enough of you demand it in a loud enough voice. History tells you so. Britain had to give up India and Ireland because their people demanded it and fought for it.
      Anyway – solidarity and best wishes from London (we didn’t vote for Brexit or the Tories either!)

    42. Geoff Anderson says:

      When a movement is divided by an incompetent egotistical figure such as Sturgeon it can never progress to it’s aim.
      Who fractured the YES movement. Who divided society for a pet project due to her own insecurities. Who failed so badly in the campaign to build support for Independence. It was Sturgeon and she is already trying to turn this disaster into a recruitment drive for the SNP.
      A Unified YES movement with a committed leader would have a hard fight to achieve Independence against the UK so what chance does a divided group with an incompetent Party, with an incompetent leader, have!

      Yes I’m mad! However, more with our pretend party of Independence than London.

    43. Craig says:

      So, what is Pete Wishfart saying on twitter about this?

      That we still need to believe, I hope people are tearing him a new one.

    44. Hatuey says:

      Robert Louis, I asked an honest question and got a dishonest answer. And it matters, not only to me but in objective terms.

      If you can’t tell the difference between a demo arranged by Sturgeon for Sturgeon, and a real demo arranged by independence supporters, you’re right — we have nothing to discuss.

      Sturgeon understands the difference. Would you like me to go through the history of her relations and interactions with the grassroots?

      A demo that does anything to distract from her role and her failures is not in the interests of the independence movement. If there are demos to be had they should be to demand her resignation.

      That’s step 1 — Sturgeon must go.

      We can discuss step 2 and future demos later.

    45. G-Man says:

      “The decision of the Supreme Court today is the result of a bad gamble that hasn’t paid off. What should have happened was the Scottish Parliament should have passed the legislation for an independence referendum and forced the UK Government to be the ones that challenged it. Real Parliaments don’t ask for permission to implement their democratic mandate. Although the verdict is hardly a surprise it now begs the question of what is the democratic route for Scots to determine their own future?

      Alex Salmond is on the money here. I won’t go into personal attacks here, and would ask others to consider not doing so either, it’s what we do now that counts, but ANYONE who has know Nicola Sturgeon well knows equally well she is not a political strategist.

      Relying on the SNP’s leadership at this particular moment is like being led to the gallows by your own defence counsel whilst they whisper how good they were at saving your soul. .

    46. Chas says:

      Rab Davis

      Did you read the thoughtful, accurate, honest post from ‘the friendly Sassenach’?

      Do you agree with him or is he one of the English who have all to be detested?

    47. Astonished says:

      Graf Midgehunter says:
      23 November, 2022 at 11:13 am
      “So that’s that:

      23.11.2022 from this day forth in history, now it’s official that we are a Colony of WM/England.

      The Gauleiter is Nicola Sturgeon.”

      You are dead right, Graf.

      Only ‘Gauleiter’ is such a hard word to say, for me anyway(Schoolboy French). Could we not just call Sturgeon – Our Imperial Overseer ?

      Other suggestions welcome.

      Sturgeon most definitely does not deserve to recover from this.

    48. Alisdair Mclean says:

      I have been voting SNP since 1968. Now at 73 I know I will never see an independent Scotland. If I am still alive at the next general election I will vote ALBA. Unfortunately, there are too many thick voters who will stay with SNP, just as there was with Labour, and it will take ALBA a few elections to make headway.
      As has been stated on innumerable times on this website Sturgeon has just been wasting everyones time.

    49. Chris Downie says:

      Predictable, but can we do a similar grassroots effort to what Martin Keating did and go to the Council of Europe and/or the UN? The former would surely be sympathetic, given the potential coup for the EU, while the latter’s charter on peoples’ right to self-determination is clear. Surely Scotland has a case here and if the Sturrell Mafia won’t do it, can’t the grassroots independence movement?

    50. Andy Ellis says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      23 November, 2022 at 11:05 am
      “We can whine on twitter, or actually get to the demos tonight. a huge show of numbers will matter.”

      Of course it bloody won’t.

      It is a truth universally acknowledged that sections of the independence movement are prone to magical thinking. Over the next few years rather than do the hard work of actually holding and winning a plebiscitary election, many will assiduously tend their sense of grievance and continue to assert that there are short cuts and cunning plans to independence via petitions, demonstrations and non-conventional means avoiding the ballot box.

      The task is not just to convince a majority to vote in favour of independence but that it can and should now be done via plebiscitary elections. You are right to say that the path ahead is not easy. It is also right to say that magical thinking on the part of some in the movement about how we do that isn’t going to help.

    51. 100%Yes says:

      This arranging woman (NS) is already saying she’ll stay on a FM, she sold us down the river for 8yrs for her own gain.
      Sturgeon has brought this to the SC, she now stating she fully agrees with its decision, People I fail to see why anyone on here believes for a single minute Sturgeon is going to do something outside the UK law she’s never going to go against whatever the UK laws says and this has been our problems from her becoming FM.
      Please my fellow scots take head nothing will change until we get rid of a lawyer who’s only going to abide by the UK law regardless of what we want and for F*ck sake don’t put JC in her place we need someone who’ll defy not keep saying AYE.

      We need a change 8yrs is enough she must go and go quickly.

    52. PhilM says:

      Well I for one am not going to get too disheartened by this decision today and neither should any clear-sighted Scot. Many of us now have an assured career path, making our living in the future, cleaning the retirement homes, second homes and holiday homes of our fellow UK citizens. Some day very soon I will rest my weary head at night in one of our newly opened trailer parks and thank the Supreme Court for their wisdom. I will not begrudge Nicola her media stardom and will watch with keen interest her new show “To Share or To Shaft”.
      To be candid I have always believed that “everything is for the best in this best of possible worlds” and now the Supreme Court has told me this is true. So when I am down on my knees scrubbing that last bit of dirt from the skirting board that no-one will notice but I have to do it on pain of losing my job, I will fight back those tears caused by my aching joints, I will rehydrate with an XXL 100ml recyclable bottle of Iron Brew, and I will tell myself ‘I am not oppressed’. How can I be when unlike some I have four jobs, a roof over my head, and an internet connection. I will know for a fact, deep within my steadily disintegrating bones, that Scots have never had it so doubleplusgood and I won’t need a Tory Prime Minister like that Ian Blackford to tell me so!

    53. sarah says:

      I am enjoying emailing the FM and my SNP MSP/MPs telling them to resign. It is very satisfying!

      Come on everyone – swamp their email inbox with the cry “RESIGN”!!!

    54. Graf Midgehunter says:

      From ALBA/Alex Salmond:
      “This must also be matched by a civic campaign of protest and action across Scotland and an Independence Convention to steer the campaign.”
      ———–
      Docile demos and walkabouts won’t cut the mustard.

      Take a leaf out of the French “Yellow Vests” and make those demos hit the headlines around the world.

      If you really want Independence you will have to fight for it. Ask the Irish and French what that means..

    55. Stoker says:

      A statement of waffle & tripe for breakfast is being delivered by Sturgeon at this moment in time, on this dull, damp and cold Wednesday morning. Like everything else, she’s had time to prepare for this and i bet it will still come down to ‘VOTE FOR ME’. GET YOUR CARROTS HERE, 2 FURRA POUND…

      Please read the small print: We need to replace the stolen indyfund 😉 2 FURRA POUND! GET YER CARROTS HERE!

    56. Johnny says:

      The stasis and stagnation is palpable.

    57. Christopher Pike says:

      While I’m not 100% convinced on Scottish independence – I can admit that Kenny Macaskill is a great orator. He completed skewered John Nicholson on Politics Live. The SNP are completely limp-wristed whenever it comes to fighting for independence.

    58. Breeks says:

      Has she gone yet?

    59. Dubh says:

      Och well.

      May as well settle down to another few decades of waiting for Alba and ISP to get up the numbers/seats etc.
      Maybe wait for Salvo/Liberation to get enough signatures to be able to approach the UN for decolonisation assistance.

      That process will take years too, but it’ll give us time to grow a fucking spine and engage in some persistent civil unrest so that WM admit we’re no longer governable and enter negotiations to dissolve the union.

      If all our routes are barred – what else is there?

    60. Breeks says:

      I should have said, has she gone yet, or does she also intend to hang around and fuck up our Plebiscite General Election too?

    61. scozzie says:

      Remember when SNP said Scotland would get to decide the future of Scotland’s independence when the terms of Brexit were known…back in ye old times of 2017/18!!!
      Any SNP supporters still flogging this SNP pretendy primary 6 level school project attempt at a strategy for independence needs to learn some lessons in “you’re getting a pure wedgey from the school bully…and they think yer da’s yer ma!!!!
      Fuckers!

    62. Daisy Walker says:

      The SNP Loyalists will say, that thanks to this initiative, Scotland now has a clearly defined ‘colony’ status, praise be to Nicla…

      Believe In Scotland/Business for Scotland will massage the message to some watered down rallying cry, akin to ‘down with this sort of thing’… Lesley Riddoch will tell us how well the Nordic countries are doing…. as always, making a welcome break from her, ‘Nicla’s a bonny fichter/both votes SNP’ schtick.

      And all will be hearded towards carrot dangling ‘must vote SNP’ at the next election, for yet another Mandate, policy.

      Meanwhile massive unemployment is coming our way thanks to Brexit and Austerity Max, and Scotland’s assets will be stolen at Warp Speed 20.

      Any and all protests will be subject to Hate Crime Bill policing, and the GRR will make Scotland the prime destination for any and all raging personality pervert types looking for a new home and a state that supports a Perverts Charter.

      And anyone voicing an alternative route will be called a devisive Albaist.

      Winter’s arrived folks, but its only just started.

    63. Braveheart says:

      Reminds me of the Irish Home Rule bill which was continuously delayed, promises reneged on and so on. Sounds familiar? The English Govt has learned nothing from Ireland in the 1920s clearly. The Irish were forced to take their independence as they were never going to be free otherwise.

    64. Chris Avery says:

      Piss off Nicola.

    65. solarflare says:

      Usual shite from Sturgeon. Lots of long words to say “I’ll tell you later mebbes but in the meantime please give me a Section 30 order and we will launch another indy campaign”.

      Absolutely irrevocably hopeless.

    66. George Ferguson says:

      Just listened to Sturgeon talk about clarity. Worth remembering that the FOI request by The Scotsman that subsequently resulted in the Scottish Information Commissioner upholding the release of the Scot Gov legal advice on a Referendum was resisted by the Scot Gov. Sturgeon has to go today!.

    67. 100%Yes says:

      So we are now hearing from Sturgeon and she has nothing to give after the SC ruling.

      I’ve heard all this before from Sturgeon.

    68. Astonished says:

      Alisdair Mclean at 11.28am

      Might I suggest you actively do something to bring about Sturgeon’s richly deserved downfall. And join ALBA it’s a pound a month for pensioners.

      https://www.albaparty.org/become_a_member

      We’d be very grateful for the increase in membership. And we’re serious about getting independence. And I’m sure you’ve got years left in you.

      “Breeks says:
      23 November, 2022 at 11:18 am
      11:30 Please, please, please, be a resignation speech.”

      Thanks- On a dark, dark day you made me laugh.

    69. Breeks says:

      Dubh says:
      23 November, 2022 at 11:42 am

      Maybe wait for Salvo/Liberation to get enough signatures to be able to approach the UN for decolonisation assistance.

      That process will take years too…

      I don’t think so.

      I think the finer details might take years to iron out, but the critical switch in sovereign recognition could come about much faster.

      Say for example EU Nations through positivity, BRICS Nations celebrating the end of the Uk, the former Commonwealth Nations who have an axe to grind with the Union Jack, …between them that’s a powerful amount of International Recognition and it could swing quickly I think. Even the US might be more flexible than we expect. Then there’s Canada…

    70. robertkknight says:

      If Scotland can’t/won’t leave the UK, then I’ll just do so on my tod.

      Given that Brexit makes the Common Travel Area the only available bolt-hole, Ireland here I come!

      PS Dear Sturgeon, just *uck off will you!

    71. Christopher Pike says:

      Independence will never happen so long as the majority of the movement keep their faith in Nicola Sturgeon – which remains the case.

      Lesley Riddoch
      Gordon Ross (although he flip-flops and plays both sides)
      Wee Ginger Dug
      The National
      The SNP
      The Greens
      Broadcasting Scotland

      All of them remain faithful to Nicola Sturgeon.

    72. Alex says:

      It’s ok. The SNP voters will lap this up. Nicola is leading us to the promised land. Don’t worry!
      She couldn’t sort a piss up in a brewery.

      It’s time for the SNP to be held to account for their failures. As much as the occasional success they have, their failures are utterly reprehensible. And they always cost us (the taxpayers). Not one of them will lose their jobs because Nicola needs loyalty. If there is any questions she will forget about it, wasn’t aware and takes the matter seriously while it’s in the news. Drugs deaths? Forgotten about. Until they are back in the news for being highest in Europe for example. Buck stops with her but it’s gotten worse under her watch.

      Time to call Nicola out on her failures to drive the SNP to change. Without that nothing is going to happen. She will ask for mandate after mandate. Getting it. Thinking she’s amazing. Any criticism of SG is because you’re against Indy. Treat this like a failed government is going to being about more change than any “demos / protests / petitions etc.”. The Westminster Gov couldn’t give one fuck if people are out in the streets going “this is unfair”. They’ll just see it’s barely reported because no one really cares. March all you want. It’ll change nothing.

    73. David Hannah says:

      Sturgeon the Indy Swindler. The destoyer of Independence. The destroyer of women’s rights. The destroyer of the legal system in Scotland. She can’t deliver referendums.

      Stranded on an island with no ferry in sight. Why not pass the time by legally flashing your penis in the female only toilets. She can’t deliver Gender Self ID now. She’s sold Scotland’s Sovereignty down the river. Like ferries.

      Nicola’s gone with the wind she flogged to the Swedish State – for a quick buck and a selfie. And quite frankly, my dear, she doesn’t give a damn.

      The destroyer of the public sector in Scotland. Rail strikes, nurses strikes people starving under Glasgow Central train station. If I was a tourist that just rocked up in Glasgow, I’d get back on the train and turn around. The Tartan Tory SNP. Nationalisation without the benefits. They want to demolish the city centre shopping complexes.

      The green tail wagging the SNP dog – not anymore. Supreme court says our Sovereignty is worthless, it requires permission of Tories.

      A failed lawyer, failing Scotland. The scum of the earth Nicola Sturgeon.

    74. crisiscult says:

      Any negatives about today’s developments Rev? 😀

      Seriously though, today may have made many people angry at the SNPs strategic errors but let’s not forget who the biggest enemy is and the battle goes on with a huge added dose of hatred of the UK having finally publicised its view that we are a colony. There is a kind of feeling in Scotland that we were somehow going to be one of the very rare instances in world history of a nation becoming independent with a handshake. If anyone feels hopeless because that hasn’t happened, a fight for self-determination wasn’t their thing and they should stick to flower pressing.

    75. mike cassidy says:

      The Tories know they don’t need a single vote in Scotland

      Never mind a single MP

      To rule at Westminster

      Labour are gradually realising the same thing

      The only circumstance in which Scotland’s votes could count would be if the SNP held the balance of power after a UK GE

      And if the Labour leader of the day was willing to risk an independence referendum as a gamble worth taking to secure the top job

      That’s two big ifs

      Cos I’m no longer inclined to presume the SNP would demand a referendum as the price for support

      And I never thought I would say that

    76. Robert Louis says:

      Sturgeon’s statement; Utter, utter, utter, utter, utter sh*te.

      She says the SNP NEC will convene in the new year to dicuss it. Why not this week??? Why the lack of urgency?

      She then says she will use the next UK election as a defacto vote on independence. Why not call a Scottish election by dissolving her own government?? Why on earth wait until 2024?

      And then she has the same old sh*te she has peddled for the last eight years about the indy movement having work to do, to persuade people about independence. What’s the point if their is no democratic path to delivering it??

      She is as RevSTU has pointed out, a fraud, an utter, utter fraud. Yet another indy carrot – election 2024.

      She has had eight years to plan for a position such as this, yet when she spoke, she indicated she would need time to consider this? Why???? For heavens sake, it was her that took the case to the sdupreme court, so where’s the gameplan? Where is the urgency???

      And for heavens sake, why did she not just cote the claim of right and the Scottish consitutional settlement?

      She says she still hopes Westminster will realise the mandate the Scottish government has. Is she really so freaking well naive? Westminster doesn’t give a f*** about her mandate or indeed what she says.

      Sturgeon needs booted out of office. She is an utter fraud. Stringing the gullible along yet again.

      An absolute 100% gold plated ‘tractor’, if ever there was one.

    77. David Hannah says:

      The SNP ‘I feel British’ advent Callander. Opening a door kills an old lady of hypothermia.

      Sturgeon says we’re subjects of King Charles. She had the biggest smile on the face I’ve ever seen today. She’s just fling an Iron in the face of Scotland today. The tin pot Iron lady – Nicola Thatcher, the Indy snatcher.

    78. Tam Norrie says:

      Sturgeon just cannae help hersel. She just luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvs boxes. She has given us the “baby box” and has finished it off with the “get back in yer box”. Ach well at least there’s dominoes on at the club the night.

    79. Merganser says:

      If people had known the identities of all those involved in the Salmond affair, Sturgeon would not now be running the show and real independence seekers would have found a way forward.

      This travesty of secrecy is crippling Scotland’ ability to achieve its destiny.

    80. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      Nae recall of MPs.
      Nae Constitutional Convention.
      Nae dissolution of Holyrood.
      Mair prevarication.
      Mair bloviating.
      Mair lovely, crunchy carrots.

    81. Skip_NC says:

      Breeks, the US nuclear weapons on the Clyde might give them pause in supporting Scottish independence.

    82. Luxybob says:

      Thats an embarrassing Politics live. SNP squirming and all lost at sea. Has everyone forgotten about the lies given just before the referendum. Feels like these are still being thrown back in our faces.

    83. Alisdair Mclean says:

      To Astonished at 11:54

      Thanks for the information but I already have joined.
      Unfortunately I can’t be active but I do spread the message on as many vlog sites as possible.

    84. Alibi says:

      I see NS is now saying it will be a UK general election that is used as a plebiscite. That is crazy. A Scottish election allows 16 & 17 year olds to vote, and also EU citizens living in Scotland. Excluding them, a greatly pro-indy demographic, looks like trying to minimise the chance of success.

      As an SNP member, I despair at her naivete. She is a decent colonial administrator but an inspiring leader of the indy movement, sadly, she is not.

    85. Effijy says:

      It went exactly as I thought.

      Westminster has neither fear or respect for this colony of Scotland
      How I wish we had the balls of the Irish or guile of Gandhi to take on
      the most corrupt government in Europe.

      If Ukraine has any spare weapons left after expelling the Russian version of the Tory party
      can we have them.

      They confirm I’m a second class citizen whose sovereign nation has no meaningful power they don’t control.

      For 70 years we have rejected the Tory Party and for almost the same consecutive period the gap between their rich backers and the working classes has grown.

      Are we looking forward to 100 years not out?

    86. scozzie says:

      I should correct my post I wasn’t meaning their strategy for independence was brexit – that ship has long sailed…was just pointing out their so called strategy was like nailing jelly to a wall. Too many wines consumed to describe myself properly!!
      Let’s just say Laurel and hardy have more chance pushing a piano upstairs than SNP have achieving independence.

    87. gregor says:

      BBC (23/11/2022): Live: Tricky questions about how a de facto referendum would work:

      “…she knows she too is going to face a lot of questions in the coming days about her strategy going forward.

      So Ms Sturgeon has attempted to push some of those questions down the road a bit by announcing a special conference of the SNP to study them…

      That means every time she’s asked how some element of her strategy would work in practice, she can say “well we’ll be debating that in the new year”…”:

      https://archive.ph/lf4Se

    88. Johnny says:

      gregor @ 12:17pm:

      Indeed that will be the argument made.

      However, that’s a great laugh too since everyone knows she doesn’t listen to anyone else so there will be no “debate”.

    89. Confused says:

      are we a “c0l0ny” now, officially?

      – asking for a friend.

      Now that’s cleared up, you know what to do.

    90. Mac says:

      From the second Sturgeon took over the leadership she has systematically and methodically undermined the independence movement.

      She attacked and neutered the internal democracy of the SNP

      She attacked and corrupted the process by which new MPs and MSPs are selected ensuring the absolute worst candidates were selected to the point now the party is not fit for purpose.

      Domestically she adopted a highly divisive and insane woke agenda that no one wanted other than her, slowly turning Scotland and the SNP into a living woke hellscape. Policies which are like slow acting poison pills in the body politic.

      She attacked all the old guard SNP’ers, marginalizing and disempowering them.

      She attacked and smeared the one politician the UK government truly feared, Alex Salmond.

      She did so using the most foul and disgusting means I have ever seen in modern politics. A truly vile act.

      She betrayed not just her mentor, the man who trusted her, but she betrayed every one of us in that moment.

      And she did so when she should have been capitalizing on the unbelievably good cards dealt to her in BREXIT and the worst tory government I have ever seen by a huge margin.

      Instead of doing what Alex Salmond would have done in the circumstances, i.e. exploited it all the maximum, she ‘misplayed’ every step, deliberately, consistently and perfectly, proving that while she may well be strategically useless, the people running her are certainly not.

      The greatest Betrayer in 315 years. By far. She has betrayed everything and everybody she ever said she stood for. She is a walking lie.

    91. Christopher Pike says:

      For the past 2/3 years the self-proclaimed expert on constitutional and international law – Gordon Ross, has been telling your movement that the Supreme Court couldn’t possibly rule against Scots Law or the ‘sovereignty’ of the Scottish people.

      Today, he has the uneducated arrogance to suggest that the Supreme Court has misinterpreted the right to self-determination. It is laughable to suggest that a driving instructor has more understanding of international law than the judges sitting on the Supreme Court. Why do so many of you take the advice of charlatans and rank amateurs over that of genuine experts? Don’t you realise that this does nothing to further the cause of independence? Don’t you realise that it makes your movement look amateurish?

    92. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      Strategy for implementation of the Plebiscite is to be formulated at a leisurely convened NEC.
      No Constitutional Convention as (rashly) promised (with no time scale) on 31st January 2021.
      There are cracks in the ranks at Westminster.
      Cracks are appearing at Holyrood.
      The only forum acceptable to the pathologically Stalinesque clique around Sturgeon is the gerrymandered NEC.

    93. Paul B says:

      No legal way into the UK, and no legal way out of it.

      I no longer know if I’m more embarrassed to say I’m Scottish or British.

      Right now, I prefer neither.

    94. Liz says:

      I will not be attending any ‘demos’ except at either Holyrood or Bute House to demand Sturgeons resignation

    95. Ian McLean says:

      I know it’s futile but I’m going to the rally in Inverurie that Alex is speaking at today. At least it will be a change to hear some positivity.

    96. Breeks says:

      Alibi says:
      23 November, 2022 at 12:14 pm
      I see NS is now saying it will be a UK general election that is used as a plebiscite. That is crazy…

      No, it’s not crazy, because the threshold for victory is winning 30 Westminster Seats on a purely Independence ticket.

      What is crazy is a Plebiscite UK General Election having stated 50% share of the vote is the victory line. That is crazy. That’s why Sturgeon shouldn’t be let in the building.

      A plebiscite GE also requires a simple binary issue on the ticket; a vote for me is a vote for Independence.

      If it doesn’t say that, if it’s a full manifesto for government, you compromise the explicit clarity of a binary vote for Independence. Thus an Independence Plebiscite Election should be fought by a single YES Candidate in every constituency and no other Indy Candidates to split the vote or dilute the expression.

      Do you see the SNP swelling enough hubris to do that? Neither do I. Sturgeon is already fucking up the Plebiscite option because she’s criminally inept and hasn’t a clue what she’s doing.

      Impeachment, impeachment, impeachment…. You know it makes sense.

      Let SALVO and ALBA manage any plebiscite GE, and run the show under a YES banner.

      But sign up for Liberation dot org before you do anything else.

      Oh aye, and henceforth EVERY election, UK or Scottish is a plebiscite on Indy.

    97. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      During her speech, the FM said (and I possibly paraphrase) that she has always had a desire for independence and, after today’s court decision, that desire is even stronger.

      If that were true, then during her speech, she would have announced that she was resigning as FM, ultimately to force a Holyrood election with a far more favourable pro-indy electorate, as others have pointed out.

      The fact that she didn’t speaks volumes about her priorities – and independence is probably at the bottom of that list of priorities.

    98. PacMan says:

      An excellent decision for Nicola Sturgeon.

      She’s dodged a referendum and she’ll be guaranteed to be in charge after the next Westminster and Holyrood elections so she can count down the time until her retirement and cash in her cushy pension.

      The same goes to all her little minions who will continue to maintain their cushy lifestyle as the gravy train keeps rolling on.

    99. sarah says:

      @ Mac “she is a walking lie”.

      Correct. I enjoyed emailing her [and then Maree Todd and Ian Blackford] to tell her she must resign immediately due to having got us into this mess.

      It must be made personal – they need to feel the disgust and fury. Please, everyone, email the criminal fools and then let us know. It needs to be a mass protest.

    100. John Main says:

      I am surprised that I was able to predict the SC decision when less than one third of those who bothered to vote got it right.

      So I will stick my neck out and make another prediction.

      All calls for NS to resign will fall on deaf ears until her successor is known and widely accepted within the Indy movement and the SNP.

      That being the case, some serious analysis of the available, obvious and even wildcard candidates is needed.

      Material for plenty of posts from Rev Stu going forwards.

      It seems plain enough to me that the Indy movement is crying out for a serious, competent, eloquent, persuasive and voteworthy leader.

    101. Big Jock says:

      Depressing as it is. In all likelihood. Nothing will happen until the next GE. We are all going to have to hold our noses and vote SNP when that comes. On the caveat that they set out a clear mandate process before the GE.

      Personally for me it would be a majority of seats, But Sturgeon wants to go down the 50% threshold. The only way that will work is making sure everyone is clear on this. If we get 50% with a mixture of Greens and SNP . Westminster will spin this as a failure.

      The question is. Do the Greens stand down entirely, at the risk of losing percentage or two of people who may not vote SNP.

    102. Christopher Pike says:

      Breeks says:
      23 November, 2022 at 12:33 pm

      Alibi says:
      23 November, 2022 at 12:14 pm
      I see NS is now saying it will be a UK general election that is used as a plebiscite. That is crazy…

      No, it’s not crazy, because the threshold for victory is winning 30 Westminster Seats on a purely Independence ticket.

      What is crazy is a Plebiscite UK General Election having stated 50% share of the vote is the victory line. That is crazy. That’s why Sturgeon shouldn’t be let in the building.

      ———

      There is no way you can declare Scotland independent unless you gain the support of the majority of the Scottish electorate.

    103. Robert Louis says:

      And folk need to realise that when their is so much justified hatred for a supposedly pro indy FM, then there is something seriously wrong.

      But nothing will happen, whilst she is in power. Obfuscate, delay, procrastinate, for ever and ever, until she and her husband retire to their rather large tax-payer funded pensions.

      Sturgeon clearly does not care one jot about independence or Scottish democracy. Her speech was lightweight. Hardly the words or fury of a leader given the world’s stage to protest at colonial rule of Scotland.

      Angry at enforced English colonial rule, even angrier at Sturgeon. The SNP, the do nothing party.

    104. Breeks says:

      Incidentally, the adjudication does NOT mean Scotland is a colony.

      Scotland is a Nation and the people of Scotland are sovereign.

      What the adjudication means is that Holyrood is “owned” by Westminster not Scotland, and is just a colonial office administering Westminster rule in open defiance of Scotland’s sovereign people.

      Holyrood is Trojan Horse attempting to usurp sovereignty from Scotland’s people. It is nothing more than that, and the office of First Minister should be regarded as Gauleiter.

    105. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Nicola Sturgeon has single-handedly undone generations of work by people who spent their whole lives bringing the Scottish National Party to the position that she’s so abysmally squandered. It’s not just the last eight years she’s wasted, but the eight decades before them.”

      So true: the dreams of millions of committed Scots over the years have been subverted by this utter fraud. She makes Benedict Arnold’s behaviour seem just slightly misguided.

      I expected fudge from the pretendy SC today but they obviously know that a dismissive and abrupt No will suffer no comeback from the Scottish gauleiter and her spineless coterie.

      Get set for some more mouldy carrots from The Great Helmswoman. How much longer can her clapping seals and nodding donkeys fail to see the bloody obvious?

    106. McDuff says:

      The sturgeon doesn`t care about Scotland or its people and never has , she was always a very strange and almost bitter individual.
      So Scotland can`t hold a referendum without the “UK`s” permission but of course it is actually England saying this and as usual it hides behind the uk badge.
      At the end of the day the blame equally lies behind the gutless worthless MP/MSPs the latter who should have walked out of Westminster or disrupted it so much that normal business would have been made almost impossible.

    107. Confused says:

      Amazingly, if Nikki was an enemy agent (she isn’t of course!) – she would have done -exactly- as she did do from 2016; getting diverted, driving with the handbrake on, ruthlessly seeing off a rival intent on indy … which is all just an amazing coincidence.

      I am a “coincidence theorist” myself.

      Leslie Evans was NOT her “handler”.

      and she never had lesbian affairs with

      REDACTED

      BUT – there is a bonus dvd special feature – the second part of the trap closes.

      the PLEBESCITE idea looks like a trap to me and a pretty obvious one – for a start the WINNING LINE WILL BE MOVED to some ridiculous point, then what happens :

      – if you lose, the unionists will accept it and say “you’ve had your indyref and it is FINAL”

      – if you “win” they will turn round and tell you it wasn’t legal and refuse to recognise it

      LOSE-LOSE

      no wonder some people are banging this drum

      Which is not to say an indyref under the same conditions as last time is a solution, for it’s another trap :

      – a rigged franchise the UN would not tolerate for a banana republic
      – slack controls; since “we don’t rig elections” why check for rigging
      – a postal vote wide open to manipulation

      And even if you did “win” under a Section 30 referendum, do you think the English would honour it??? They would stonewall you, say it was advisory and mumble something about federalism. People who have “done the reading” will know this.

    108. Breeks says:

      Christopher Pike says:
      23 November, 2022 at 12:42 pm

      There is no way you can declare Scotland independent unless you gain the support of the majority of the Scottish electorate.

      Not true. 30 seats in Westminster is a democratic victory under Westminster’s First Past the Post system. It isn’t “a” legal threshold for Indy, it is “the” legal threshold for victory. It just needs the explicit binary mandate that a vote for “x” is a vote for Independence.

      Furthermore, if Scotland’s Sovereign integrity and Claim of Right has been violated by colonial intervention or subjugation, (and I cite Brexit), then the Treaty of Union is breached, the Treaty is is broken and no longer exists as a distinction in law, irrespective of any electoral mandate or democratic opinion.

      So there’s two ways to Independence already…

    109. Luigi says:

      The surprising speed and decisiveness of the UK SC ruling this morning indicates that the UK establishment feels that it has nothing to fear from the current Scottish government or SNP leadership. Diddly-squat. Nada. No fear, no respect. What a damning indictment.

    110. Jordanhill says:

      Absolutely the result our precious Nicola wanted. No interest in an Independent Scotland but she can continue to blame others for the Scottish people being shackled to the Union. Lots of vacuous rhetoric from her again but my suspicion is she’s offsky soon to some Woke connected sinecure a long way from Dreghorn. She is a disgrace as is virtually every other SNP representative in Holyrood & Westminster.

    111. The friendly sassenach says:

      Merganser says:
      If people had known the identities of all those involved in the Salmond affair, Sturgeon would not now be running the show and real independence seekers would have found a way forward.
      this travesty of secrecy is crippling Scotland’ ability to achieve its destiny.

      — this is probably right. And I think you will not get rid of Sturgeon until the truth about that is out

    112. gregor says:

      @Johnny

      Look on the bright side re. what Scotland has learned:

      No transparency (strategic plan ?).
      No debate.
      No progress.

    113. Graf Midgehunter says:

      With us mortals so confused at the moment, it looks like we’ll all be sitting on the edge of our seats until WGD has explained the plan behind the pure genius of Saint Nicola.. 🙂

    114. Ebok says:

      Big Jock says:

      ‘We are all going to have to hold our noses and vote SNP’

      Hahahahahaha

    115. Ottomanboi says:

      A constitutional crisis handed on a plate.
      If you want it, you must take it.
      No more lawyers’ tricks.
      This system deserves cremation.
      Goodbye Yookaye!

    116. Bob Mack says:

      Vote SNP? For what exactly?

    117. Karen says:

      A shit lawyer (and probably M15) calls it wrong, she must resign. SNP MSPs must defect to Alba, as must SNP members. MPs must walk out of Westmibster and form a Constitutional Convention. MSPs must use planning and health and safety law to thwart Westminster (do those pylons look unsafe to you? Are the pipelines that pass through Aberdeenshire not due an upgrade?). And everyone must cancel their TV license if they haven’t already. For a start.

    118. Karen says:

      A shit lawyer (and probably M15) calls it wrong, she must resign. SNP MSPs must defect to Alba, as must SNP members. MPs must walk out of Westminster and form a Constitutional Convention. MSPs must use planning and health and safety law to thwart Westminster (do those pylons look unsafe to you? Are the pipelines that pass through Aberdeenshire not due an upgrade?). And everyone must cancel their TV license if they haven’t already. For a start.

    119. Nevermore says:

      Why can the SNP not seek to dissolve the Scottish Parliament and have a new election- on the plebiscite question – early in the spring. Relatively easy to keep/ enhance the momentum, if nothing else. Serious question.

    120. Shug says:

      Think it is time to ‘out’ the conspirators and show the country what wee shits they all are

      Nothing like finding a piece of the jigsaw

    121. Bob Mack says:

      @Graf Midgehunter,

      He has done so already. Injustice,lack of democracy , SNP branches holding meetings about it etc etc etc.

      No solutions though

    122. Geoff Anderson says:

      So we have the Sturgeon TransCult Nicophants rubber stamping a vote SNP at the next GE for Independence. An election which will exclude all the 16 and 17 year old voters who lean at least 70% towards Independence. The 30% Labour voters who favour Independence will still vote Labour and be counted as a vote for the Union. Those in the SSP, Alba, SSP etc will not have their view recorded unless the blackmail of vote SNP is followed. What a brilliant plan.

      A real Independence leader would have collapsed Holyrood NOW and maximised the chances of a successful vote – It’s almost as if she wants to be defeated and remain the regional ruler.
      After the GE narrow defeat for Indy it will be Vote SNP for Holyrood. If she loses seats in the constituencies the divisor in the D’Hondt system goes down so she picks up regional seats.

      Murrell Enterprises will continue to grow the business.

    123. Stoker says:

      I would encourage all those members of the SNP who are feeling let down by Sturgeon to close your memberships in protest and sign up to join Alba and help put a real indy party on the map.

      If you stay with the SNP, believing there’s going to be “change” then you’re as guilty as Sturgeon for destroying 8+ years of Scotland’s history pretending change is coming.

      Particularly those politicians within the SNP who have skirted on the fringes of ‘should i stay or should i go to Alba?’ Time to cross the floor and nail one’s colours to the mast. Or forever haud yer wheesht!

      Your continued membership of the SNP is your seal of approval.

      “Seal of approval: indication that something is accepted or regarded favourably.”

    124. Andy Ellis says:

      @Big Jock 12.40pm

      If we get 50% with a mixture of Greens and SNP . Westminster will spin this as a failure.
      The question is. Do the Greens stand down entirely, at the risk of losing percentage or two of people who may not vote SNP.

      If there is to be a plebiscitary election it’s up to the movement to dictate terms. Individual parties don’t own such a vote or get to dictate which votes count and which don’t, any more than Westminster gets to decide if it accepts the results.

      Now that the British nationalists have demonstrated that they are not negotiating in good faith and will not accept (repeated) democratic mandates for the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum, then it is a matter for the Scottish people to decide. If we are timorous enough to accept being told we are not “allowed” a referendum, or that the results of plebiscitary elections will not be deemed legitimate, then we don’t deserve to be independent. What sort of nationalists would that make us?

      It doesn’t matter whether plebiscitary elections are for Westminster or Holyrood, whether we have a unified pro independence slate or multiple parties, or even if they stand on one issue or a full policy platform. All that is required is for ALL pro independence parties to affirm before polling that in the event their combined vote is 50% + 1 then Scotland is de facto independent. No ifs, no buts: game over for the union.

      We don’t need any follow up referendum or convention, the die will have been cast. All that is required then is fresh elections to the first independent parliament and detailed separation negotiations with rump UK.

      Sturgeon had a chance to show us her quality an hour ago by announcing immediate Holyrood elections. It’s a pity that in this 32nd anniversary of Thatcher’s fall, the SNP are too gutless to do the same to Sturgeon as the Tories did to the Leaderene.

    125. PacMan says:

      Graf Midgehunter says: 23 November, 2022 at 12:57 pm

      With us mortals so confused at the moment, it looks like we’ll all be sitting on the edge of our seats until WGD has explained the plan behind the pure genius of Saint Nicola.. ?

      The spinning has already started with an excerpt from his latest blog entry:

      The First Minister announced today that democracy cannot be denied. The people of Scotland must have their say in a legal and democratic vote on the future of their country. Therefore the next election in Scotland will become a de facto referendum on independence. Labour and the Tories must now explain themselves to the people of Scotland, they must explain their lies about the nature of a union which we now know is not voluntary at all. They must explain what the democratic route is for the people of Scotland to secure another referendum now that we know it is not voting for a Scottish Parliament committed to delivering one. During PMQs in the Commons today, the unelected Prime Minister repeatedly refused to answer that question.

      The First Minister also announced a special conference of the SNP and discussions with the Greens in order to determine the question to be put to the voters of Scotland at that de facto referendum and a plan of action once a Yes majority is secured. Scotland will have its say, but we have work to do between now and then to build that secure Yes majority and to hold the democracy deniers of Anglo-British nationalism to account. That will continue to be the sole focus of this blog until that Yes vote is secured.

      Just one thing about WGD. I can’t seem to get a direct link to his site through DuckDuckGo search results but instead have to go through the link to the twitter account that the search result uses. I wonder why that is 😉

    126. Mac says:

      I knew it!

      On the UK Supreme Court website, it says:

      Can the UKSC overrule the UK Parliament?
      No. Unlike some Supreme Courts in other parts of the world, the UK Supreme Court does not have the power to ‘strike down’ legislation passed by the UK Parliament. It is the Court’s role to interpret the law and develop it where necessary, rather than formulate public policy.

      Can the UKSC overrule Devolved Parliaments and Assemblies in other parts of the UK?
      The UKSC can hear ‘devolution issues’, which include questions about whether a Bill or Act of Parliament, or any provision of a Bill or Act of Parliament, is within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament…

      https://www.supremecourt.uk/faqs.html#1e

    127. 100%Yes says:

      The FM has never been bothered to attend an AUOB march, but yet her job is now on the line and I feel sure she’ll be willing to attend one of these rally’s tonight. Lesley Riddoch and Sturgeonites endorsement of Sturgeon in every regard is the reason we find ourselves in the cul-de-sac on Independence. When has Sturgeon ever been democratic in her approach when it comes to the SNP and we heard her today saying she’ll hold a conference next year for her and her party to talk a way forward for Scotland, don’t make me laugh.

      She was asked about working with other parties and straight away avoided the question entirely, this woman hasn’t changed her spots and doesn’t know how to move forward, so for Scotland nothing is going to change until we change the leader running the country. Sturgeon did look rattled, but what would you expect, she asked the opposition (SC) to make a judgement because she couldn’t make the judgement herself, she should have known what the result was going to be, after all the rest of us did.

      She said Indepeendence isn’t about one person and yet here is me thinking thats all its ever been since she been leader of the SNP, Scotland is worse of under Sturgeon.

    128. James Che says:

      If the official Scottish parliament closed its doors in 1707,
      There has been no Scottish parliament in the treaty of union for over three hundred years.

      WAKE UP YOU AND I ( SCOTLAND ) CANNOT BE IN A TREATY OF UNION

      We cannot hold the position of having an extinguished, cancelled, voided, deleted 1707 Scottish parliament in 1707.

      And a Existing member of the Scotland side of a treaty of union in Westminster.

    129. Stuart MacKay says:

      Graf Midgehunter @12:57

      >it looks like we’ll all be sitting on the edge of our seats until WGD has explained the plan behind the pure genius of Saint Nicola.

      Ask and ye shall receive, https://archive.ph/ekMbj

      I bet it took quite a bit of mental gymnastics but WGD blames it on the Tories and now there must be a referendum because everything else is unthinkable. I guess he gets extra points for managing to stay on message.

      So it’s definitely one step back for Saint Nicola. Now that the gold standard has been removed it is now her fervent belief that the gold standard must be allowed so democracy in Scotland can be restored.

      Time to buy futures in carrots. Plenty are going to be needed.

    130. stuart mctavish says:

      Any explanations as to why SNP went in to Westminster today?

    131. Breeks says:

      Get signed up to Liberation dot Scot.

      You want forward momentum? Then help liberation dot Scot take the initiative.

      https://liberation.scot/

      Don’t leave any gaps in your username.

      Now it is more important than ever.

    132. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 12.52 pm

      Not true. 30 seats in Westminster is a democratic victory under Westminster’s First Past the Post system. It isn’t “a” legal threshold for Indy, it is “the” legal threshold for victory. It just needs the explicit binary mandate that a vote for “x” is a vote for Independence.

      It is true. The number of seats is irrelevant unless it is backed up by a clear majority voting in favour in response to a clear question. It doesn’t matter whether the question is in a binary referendum or a plebiscitary election.

      International recognition will not come about if there is a contested referendum or plebiscitary vote that doesn’t demonstrate a clear majority in favour. There are no short cuts, no cunning plans and no non-electoral legal silver bullets that lead to independence based on self appointed conventions or assemblies or petitions to courts. Those are all fanciful magical thinking lacking in any appreciable support, still less commanding a majority.

      The movement needs to use the democratic outrage represented by the contention that our self determination is in the gift of Westminster, and can be denied “sine die”, as a spring board for ensuring a majority in plebiscitary elections which takes its independence rather than asks for permission.

    133. JGedd says:

      Dubh @ 11.54am

      You have greater faith in international recognition of Scotland’s independence than I can summon. I have a dark and sneaking suspicion about how far the tendrils of the dark network that NS so avidly wishes to belong to, will operate against the independence of a country that might actually wish to behave independently in international affairs. She has done everything to show her loyalty to them by completely subverting the former policies of the SNP.

      The summary dismissal of Craig Murray’s well-argued case before the European Court gives me cause for disquiet. It makes me wonder about the much touted international recognition Scotland might receive. There seems to be a strong current flowing against the idea of the nation state in the present day. It isn’t just the GR legislation which can split the independence movement. There are signs of other pressures beginning to build that could portend trouble for the independence movement.

      The former happy independence movement of pre 2014 willing to put aside any differences about future policy areas until after hoped-for independence seems to have been trustingly optimistic now. Other minds were listening to the idea that after independence there might be a realignment of political parties and new politics might emerge – and they decided that was not going to happen. That faction took over the SNP, determined that the SNP was to be a different entity altogether, so we have Sturgeon and her clique in ruthless charge. (And could I mention Angus Robertson? His foreign policy ambitions were obvious even then.)

    134. PacMan says:

      On this post, I have made the statement that the Supreme court ruling has been good for Sturgeon as she will be able to hold onto the reigns of power at Holyrood until her retirement.

      In previous post, I have made the argument along with others that he has ditched independence in favour of a progressive agenda in order for her to move on to a cushy job at the UN or some progressive university in America.

      It could well be that with all these international conferences that Nicola Sturgeon has went to, it has been very lonely for her and these opportunities to network has not materialised.

      While Sturgeon has pursed a progressive agenda, she has got nowhere with the main goal that she got elected for as a politician and it is hard for her to spin that away.

      There is also the fact that throughout the Alex Salmond affair she has shown how toxic she is as an individual and how she is unable to deal with pressure when she is actually scrutinised.

      Maybe we have put too much credence in her actual abilities and thinking she can achieve more than she is actually capable of. Maybe she is starting to waken up to that herself?

      All hypothesis on my part but it will be fun seeing her squirming when people start to realise how much of a loser she is.

    135. Stoker says:

      sarah says on 23 November 2022 at 12:37 pm:

      “I enjoyed emailing her [and then Maree Todd and Ian Blackford] to tell her she must resign immediately due to having got us into this mess. It must be made personal – they need to feel the disgust and fury. Please, everyone, email the criminal fools and then let us know. It needs to be a mass protest.”

      Hear! Hear!

      I’d go one further and encourage everyone to open up social media accounts and then bombard her accounts with your disapprovals. But keep it civil(ish) and within the law. Don’t let these self-servers get away with distancing themselves from the international embarrassment they have caused. In the name of self-interests, they sold-out Scotland and that must never be forgiven or forgotten. Start holding their feet to the fire. Or as they say these days, make them own their own shit.

    136. James Che says:

      The Devolved Parliament is not the Scottish parliament.of 1707, that closed.
      And all that is within the devolved government are under english legislation, including the snp.

      To be in the UK parliament, aka the British parliament and hence in the treaty of union the 1707 parliament would have to reconvene.

    137. Lorna Campbell says:

      Excellent piece, Rev. Says it all. No other way that ruling could have gone. That is why it was a very bad move. I’m sorry to say it but I don’t believe that Alec Salmond has it either because legal recognition hinges largely on either legality or sheer pragmatism (as in the former Yugoslavia where violence threatened the whole of the world). I very much doubt that Scotland would have met those criteria.

      The addition about international law is seriously flawed, and that court has no jurisdiction in international law. Yes, force England as the UK or rUK to challenge in court, but make it the international court. No more referendums of any kind. UDI alongside a case before the UN/International Court and a ratifying referendum afterwards. The International Court case must be based on consistent and deliberate breaching of the Treaty by one party to that agreement, England/England as the UK.

      The SC of the UK has interpreted the Acts of Union to be the superior legislation which is not lawful. The Acts cannot supersede the Treaty because the Acts are grounded in domestic law which has no jurisdiction in international law, which governs the Treaty. This is the only way we are getting out from under without recourse to arms, and who wants that? This one-sided Anglo-centred debate has to be challenged at its core – and that is the Treaty. First, though, we have to declare a UDI based on years of government of the party of independence, and numerous mandates to achieve independence. If we meekly accept this ruling, we deserve to be slaves.

    138. James Che says:

      Forget NS…forget the SC ruling….forget the falsified state of union between Scotlands old 1707 parliament and Englands EXISTING parliament today.

      The treaty of union was halted when the 1707 Scottish parliament was halted, extinguished.

      The rest is also history, the Scottish people were never asked if they want to join the treaty of union.

      Both these statements are on the UK parliament Site,
      I hope you made a copy.

    139. C Mackay says:

      A tragedy. Nothing works, roads railways education, we’ve the worst health in Europe with zero population growth. We have an unaccountable dictatorship with a premier who can say anything and get away with it. How are we going to get the people to come forward to clear up this shambles

    140. Alf Baird says:

      crisiscult @ 12:01 pm

      “the UK having finally publicised its view that we are a colony”

      Aye, the colonial penny surely had to drop eventually, tho plenty o signposts ower three centuries an mair o Scots fowk bein doun-hauden an mony treaty violations tae, added to the fact the UN describes independence as ‘decolonization’:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/

    141. David Hannah says:

      Just listened to Alistair Jack, the Tories heavyweight figure in Scotland refer to his previous answer. By Sturgeon’s own admission Jack doesn’t recognise list MSPs as part of a mandate which Nicola described as “gaming the system”.

    142. scunner says:

      I see the Beeb have added a “have your say” to the headline article.

      Basically a binfire of bullshit.

      “Hijacked the flag”
      “want to leave but be ruled by Brussels”
      “divisive spewing out hatred”
      “Evil Nationalists hate the English”

      Basically Yoon Bingo.

      Exactly what you’d expect by opening up a topic to the 90% who don’t live here

    143. Fairliered says:

      The is zero chance that Sturgeon will dissolve The Scottish Parliament until her Gender Bender Act has been enacted.

    144. Kevin Evans says:

      That’s me finished with loaning my vote to the SNP for indy.

    145. Tinto Chiel says:

      @JGedd: globalism seems the best game in town for political sub-Clinton wannabees like Nikla and of course, globalism wishes to weaken national sovereignty for obvious reasons.

      We now know the FM has no genuine interest in Scottish independence and the activation of our sovereignty. Her behaviour is understandable, however, if you see her as having other ambitions and motivations. Of course, another explanation is that she has been nobbled in some way.

      Any way you cut it, there will be no improvement in our fortunes until she is gone.

    146. Breeks says:

      Damn it to Hell. I can’t get to Edinburgh.

      All my electrics are fked on the motor. I’ve no headlights indicators or wipers. Main beam is ok if I hold it. Gotta be a fuse right? Except I’ve been through all the fuses and they’re all ok. WTF???

      Anyway, SALVO is meeting at the ponds in front of the Holyrood parish Council building from 2:45pm.

      That’s the only meeting I’d be wanted to go to today; that and ALBA.

      Gonna go through the fuses again, but checked both lots. Console and under the seat. Bloody hell. What a bad day this is.

    147. robertkknight says:

      Cue Westminster’s next wheeze…

      Offer a S30 with so many strings that not even Sturgeon’s pro-Devo/anti-Indy SNP has the stomach to accept it, and it’s game, set, match Westminster?

      Whatcha gonna do next, Scotland?

      Have all the cozy feet Petes walk out of WM? LMFAO! Never happen…

      Or have SNP MSPs walk out of Holyrood, DUP style, and refuse to administer the executive in parliament?

      More chance of Vlad the Invader being awarded a Nobel Prize for peace.

      To paraphrase one of the better lines in Braveheart…

      “The almighty says he can get me out of this mess, but he’s pretty sure, you’re all f****ed! Ah-hah!”

      Ireland, here I come!!!

    148. The friendly sassenach says:

      robertkknight say
      Cue Westminster’s next wheeze…Offer a S30 with so many strings that not even Sturgeon’s pro-Devo/anti-Indy SNP has the stomach to accept it, and it’s game, set, match Westminster?

      — there will be no offer, why should there be? They will deal when support for independence is so high that not doing so is a political non starter, and not until. 50/50 doesn’t cut it – ask the Catalans….

    149. Patsy Millar says:

      Bugger!

    150. Ross says:

      This is a time for unity.

      It’s time to back the horse we’re on.

      GEIndyref it is.

    151. Geri says:

      We now bin the SNP to the bucket & switch to a more competent leader who has a spine.
      Claim of Right, let’s drive this fecker back to a fringe party along with the cultish greens.

      Onwards & upwards. A signatory to the Act of Union has been deemed inferior.

      It has to be swift & call a Holyrood election. She can’t remain in power a moment longer. Since when did an International ruling on a region – apply Nationally to a country?

    152. James Che says:

      Breeks.
      Lorna Campbell.

      It is exceedingly frustrating distressing to find Scotlands people looking to others for recognition of themselves, of their nation, of their Country.
      Talking of UDI.

      We are who we are,

      A Country and nation of Scotland whom were never asked to join a Treaty of union with England, Whose Parliament was extinguished prior to entering in union with the English parliament to become the British parliament when it opened its doors.

      What we are right now is up for debate, Blind, ignorant, easily fooled,
      A country colonised by force, certainly.
      But a Scottish Nation, Country and 1707 parliament that continued into the British parliament without Hindrance, No.

      The treaty of union was not completed by Scotlands parliament due to the English parliament stating the 1707 Scottish parliament was extinguished.
      The Scottish parliament has not been in the Treaty of union since 1707.

    153. Hatuey says:

      This must be what it’s like for football fans when the manager is completely useless. I’m at a stage where I want “the team” to lose, because anything resembling a victory will bolster the position of the useless manager.

      I guess that’s why very few of us are talking about going to any demo’s tonight. Anything that distracts from the utter uselessness of Sturgeon is the enemy.

      So, let me guess, all the star players are on TV and everywhere else, pretending they’re deeply aggrieved, pretending all they care about is independence, pretending they love you, the best fans in the world, etc., etc., trying to shore up the manager and her regime…

      I haven’t vomited in some time but I remember when I did my mouth felt all sweaty and wet beforehand, the way it does right now.

    154. Bob Mack says:

      The question all SNP loyalists must now ask themselves is this.

      If this was all part of some master plan carefully thought out and scripted, then why are the SNP having to hold meetings to work out where they go from here?

      It was a complete mish mash. That is just fact.

    155. Merganser says:

      PacMan @ 12.36.

      You are so right about this. Why can’t more people see what is staring them in the face? Sturgeon is a fraud, a self-perpetuator of a cushy existence. And a never emptying trough for her mates to feed at, while they introduce ridiculous polices never voted for.

      A single issue election is a free ticket for Sturgeon to carry on doing what she wants without any scrutiny. Madness.

    156. Luigi says:

      If the SNP cannot even get us a consultative referendum, how con earth can they expect us to continue voting SNP for independence? What exactly are we voting SNP for?

    157. scunner says:

      “GEIndyref”?

      With Labour looking like a shoe-in, the trad voters will back them again.

      The SNP will lose seats (even if they gain the current Tory ones), will get less than 50% and Indy is Toast.

    158. schrodingers cat says:

      if no indyref, then every election going forward will be a de facto plebiscite.

      if the unionists didnt want a neverendum…….they now have one

    159. schrodingers cat says:

      does the ruling mean rishi gets to decide what the monster raving looney party can and cannot put in their manifesto or does it give the power for rishi to stop scots from voting in any future election?

    160. scozzie says:

      Big Jock @ 12:40pm
      “Hold our noses and vote for SNP” this is like deja vu! How many times can you be conned? SNP is now utterly corrupt and compromised. Requires a wholesale clean out from the snake’s head down and who would be left that could deliver independence (or event wants it)?

      You have a window of time to get grassroots mobilised.
      It utterly pains me to say this but maybe Alex Salmond steps into the background to focus on political strategy and Kenny MacAsgill steps up as leader of Alba(the SNP have really tarnished AS reputation that it’s just not breaking through).

      It kinda feels like Ireland’s Sinn Fein’s early breakthrough- today’s ruling has shown we’re occupied (not physically but politically) it’s all for the taking just need the right people at the right time, with the right message.

    161. Bob Mack says:

      @Schrodingers,

      The Supreme Court has just ruled Scotland cannot hold a referendum without Westminster agreement. Legally, that will also apply to a plebiscite. Where then?

    162. Big G says:

      Dear fellow wingers,

      Are you actually planning to put a X beside the name of your constituency’s SNP candidate in a plebiscite?

      First of all, how does that move us forward if WM can just keep rejecting and ignoring Scottish democracy, however it is expressed?

      Secondly, how can we be sure the SNP won’t use the subsequent mandate to push through the worst possible extremes of their woke nonsense?

      Isn’t this just the biggest carrot yet, to be followed by the biggest stick?

    163. James Che says:

      Alf Baird.

      The Scotland is a Colony, has finally dropped, thank god,
      We have been saying it for long enough, Yourself, a lot longer than I.
      The SC backed up and verified what we have been saying.

      Now We wait for the penny to drop, that Scotlands parliament never continued its journey into the British parliament.
      As the Scottish parliament Extinguished itself in 1707 by AGREEing to the Treaty of Union,
      The Scottish parliament closed its doors prior to the union of parliaments as the British parliament.

      The extinguished Scottish parliament cannot and has not been in the British parliament for over three hundred years.

    164. Republicofscotland says:

      At least we know now that we are not in a union, more importantly those indy supporters who still thought that we were in a union, now know for sure that we are not.

      We also now know as the Rev stated, that Sturgeon has betrayed us and failed the indy cause abysmally. Of course, she is now grandstanding for those who still believe that she wants Scottish independence, her act of railing that she’s angry at the judgement will wash with some, but looking at her record on Scottish independence its abundantly clear that she has harmed the cause more than helped it.

      If she had even a smidgen of decency and morality she’d resign immediately, but she has neither and will not.

      Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots cannot be trusted to use the next GE as a plebiscite not after betraying the cause.

    165. James Che says:

      Geri.

      A signatory to the Treaty that was never completed by the 1707 Scottish parliament, as it closed it door beforehand.

      Before the British parliament opened.

    166. Grahame Case says:

      I was discussing with a friend earlier, we both agreed it would never come to it but the only route we can see to leave England now is the way the Irish did

    167. Astonished says:

      “Ross says:
      23 November, 2022 at 1:54 pm
      This is a time for unity.

      It’s time to back the horse we’re on.

      GEIndyref it is.”

      I could only back this if the leader and the transcult were removed. Sturgeon has betrayed us far, far too often to ever be trusted.

      Over to you Ross.

    168. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      It is time for us to let slide the devolved Colonial parliament in Scotland and all that float in it as s….like the SNP.

      Its passed, it gone, it was never ours. They were never our parties as long as the swore a oath of alligiance to outside Scotland as their master.

      The snp story is a old story, as old as the hills in scotland,

      We need to move on from our hang ups,

      We have been fighting the wrong end of the Treaty of union for to long.

    169. sarah says:

      @ Graham Case: “..the only route..”

      There’s Salvo’s route – has your friend signed up to the Edinburgh Proclamation [on salvo.scot and also on liberation.scot]?

    170. James Che says:

      Grahame Case.

      Or by opening our eyes and realising there is Actually no treaty of union between the two parliament.
      As the Scottish parliament ceased to exist and was extinguished in 1707.

    171. schrodingers cat says:

      @Bob Mack

      thats kinda the point im trying to make…. the ruling doesnt stop anyone from putting anything they want in a manifesto. nor can they stop people voting for that manifesto.

      its one thing to deny the chance to vote, another to refuse the result of an election.

      if they do then we move to civil disobedience, and rightly so.

      the only way rishi can keep the union intact is to temporarily deny people the opportunity to vote

    172. Cameron Lochiel says:

      Once upon a time, the enlightened sage, Drunken Bothersall, stated “The SNP are a busted flush”. His words came true today. Yes, we know that mandarins loyal to Imelda engineered the situation, but only the most one-eyed Essenpee loyalist would now believe that independence is feasible (or even sought) under the regime of Elsie MacSelfie and her crooked cabal.

      If you’re a member of the SNP and genuiely seek independence, you have no choice but to turf her out and all her Grima Wormtongue lackeys. If, however, you feel that to do so would be unrealistic given her Stasi-like control of the party, then you should seriously consider voting for a party that actually does believe in independence and has credible notions of how to deliver it

    173. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack

      The Supreme Court has just ruled Scotland cannot hold a referendum without Westminster agreement. Legally, that will also apply to a plebiscite. Where then?
      ———–

      how can an election be blocked???

    174. James Che says:

      Sarah.

      Salvo is good, but also not the only route,

      We have had no Scottish parliament in the British parliament since 1707. When it closed its doors.

      Anyone sitting in Westminster as Scottish parliament members representatives are frauds, for the past three hundred years,

    175. stuart mctavish says:

      @Lorna Campbell @1:25pm

      I’ll take the other side of the “no other way the ruling could have gone” assertion as I’m fairly certain the UKSC just conspired to misconduct itself by putting its future existence in jeopardy.

      Given the arrogance to assume it had standing in the first place, the correct conduct would have been to go further than provide clarity on the matter referred (ie Holyrood can indeed conduct consultative referendums) and insist that a binding referendum next October would provide much needed clarity on the UK constitution and the Supreme Court’s place in same. (ie in anticipation that its own future coud be secured via negotiation whoever won indyref2). Instead it appears that, for whatever reason, self harm has been allowed to win the day thus rendering the concept obsolete whatever happens.

    176. Ottomanboi says:

      GRAHAME CASE. 2:25pm
      The Brits ie English have never left anywhere without a bloody mess.
      Scotland is effectively the old order’s last stand. No Scotland, no UK, British prétentions exploded, curtain down on that world stage.
      Perfidious to the last.

    177. Republicofscotland says:

      James Che @2.34pm.

      James

      There’s no way out of this hostage position we find ourselves in via Westminster, we’ll need to break Westminster laws to break this hostage position. Sturgeon the betrayer will never ever defy the foreign governments parliament that’s holding us hostage especially on reserved matters.

      Unless there’s mass civil unrest, what can we do until Sturgeon the Judas is removed from office she is a major stumbling block on dealing with our hostage position.

      England’s parliament CANNOT stop us from throwing off the shackles of oppression that we know know we’re in, as long as we have the right FM in place, an FM who isn’t a treacherous b*stard like Sturgeon.

      Scotland is a prisoner in this onesided union a hostage that’s denied democracy.

    178. Jamie says:

      An independent Scotland can join EFTA practically quibble free. So whilst I don’t think an independent Scotland should rejoin the EU I accept it is the majority position so even though I personally will be worse off back in the EU, Scotland joining EFTA gives Scotland almost all of the perks of being in the EU without actually being in it.

      So that’s one positive. Indyref 2 or a plebiscite election can be fought on the proviso Scotland joins EFTA.

      I’m sure Alba will us proud there. I grew up in an SNP/ Scottish nationalist family and I remember as a child watching the SNP lose election after election. It is only as an adult I finally got to see the SNP win thanks to Alex Salmond.

      It took a long time and winning parties don’t get built overnight.

      If everyone keeps the faith and keels doing their little bit we will get there in the end.

      I have faith because the hardcore Scottish nationalists that built the winning SNP have joined Alba. They know it takes perseverance and lots of time. We will do it, but it won’t come easy or quick.

      There are no shortcuts.

      I predict, eventually the SNP will fall, just like every other party that has gone before and nationalists will have a choice, vote Alba or go back to the unionists.

      I would bet folk choose Alba. It could be a while before the SNP fall apart though, Scottish Labour lasted over a decade with repeated calamities.

      It’s just a matter of when, not if.

    179. Ruby says:

      Did we not know way back in 2011 that we required Westminster’s permission to have a legally binding referendum?

      What is the difference between a defacto referendum and a normal general election where the SNP claim that a vote for them is a mandate for a referendum?

      Is this something else we are expected to believe?

      General elections are legally binding referendums. If you don’t believe that then you are a bigot a referendumophobic.

    180. James Che says:

      Sarah,

      If the Scottish parliament closed it doors in 1707, as the UK parliament site still states in 2022.

      There can be no Scottish parliament representative from Scotland in Westminster today, until we the people re-open our Scottish parliament.

      Meanwhile the Snp are under English law in a English legislated devolved Colonial government placed in Scotland without a completed Treaty.

    181. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruby says:
      What is the difference between a defacto referendum and a normal general election where the SNP claim that a vote for them is a mandate for a referendum?
      —————-

      one is a vote for a referendum, the other is for independence

    182. Ottomanboi says:

      WHAT DO WE WANT?
      https://archive.ph/vWgo0
      DO WE WANT IT ENOUGH?

    183. Ian McLean says:

      Iain Lawson makes a good point today. We may have dodged a bullet in that Sturgeon would not be capable of leading a successful referendum campaign.
      She has to go.

    184. Desimond says:

      Hearing so many folk out there going on about “get the next General Election and “we just ask the question”…

      I have to admit, I have no idea how that’s expected to actually work in reality…

      “Just ask the question”…Just How exactly?

      Where on a General Election ballot paper is there a Question for wannabee Independence folk to ask? They get their name and party, thats it. No more. No Manifesto, nothing else.

      Who decides each candidate at at each constituency. Single Independence person only then yeah? Is that decided by local hustings like?

      Who decides what winning is? Is it seats?, is it votes?
      And
      Who decides that Westminster must accept it? We have had plenty of SNP majorities before, that never meant owt did it?

      Why should a Westminster General Election care about results in 57 seats out of 650? It didnt recognise Ireland in 1918 having 70% of votes for people on a “Leaving” ticket.

      If we dont get a “win”..do I assume, the single Independence item issue Politician that won their constituency vote just go to Westminster?…but who do they represent exactly?

      If it aint a Yes/No Referendum vote, I cant see how it logically survives. They probably know the same mind so all happy and comfy.

    185. ross says:

      @astonished

      I’ll be voting for the party or parties proposing independence for my country.

      Everyone is entitled to their own actions.

      We’ll know on the day of GEIndyref what the options are and vote accordingly. If he proposal of today is the same on that day I vote for independence.

      No-one said it was going to be easy. If De Klerk can work with Mandela, if Churchill can work with Stalin. We can unite for our country. If we don’t, it’s all over anyway.

    186. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      Why?

      Why do you have to break Westminster laws if we are not in a treaty with them?

      What makes you still believe that a extinguished 1707 Scottish parliament has any Scottish representatives in Westminster?

      What makes you still believe that?.. Our parliament has been closed for over three hundred years,
      Scotland is has not been a participant in the treaty of union for over three hundred years.

      Long enough to say that Westminsters British Parliament and Laws and the Treaty of union that was not continued or survived three hundred since 1707 is void.

      That Westminsters English parliament is still Englands parliament and laws.
      But those laws from Westminster can have no jurisdiction over Scotland with regards to a treaty that was cancelled by extinguishing the Scottish parliament.
      As soon as the Scottish parliament was extinguished in 1707 so was the treaty of the union,
      We ( Scotland ) never entered the new British parliament as a Scottish continued parliament.

      There is no Treaty, it was cancelled when Westminster parliament claimed the Scottish parliament was cancelled and had extinguished itself by ~ Agreeing to the treaty of the union, not enacting it.

    187. Taxi for Sturgeon says:

      I can’t see how sturgeon can continue after this dramatic failure. She has failed us all. Her army of sycophants are desperately trying to defend her. The same people told us all there would be another referendum in 2023. These sycophants have no shame! Sturgeon is finished and needs to have some grace and accept here failings and resign now!

    188. Ruby says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      23 November, 2022 at 3:05 pm

      Ruby says:
      What is the difference between a defacto referendum and a normal general election where the SNP claim that a vote for them is a mandate for a referendum?
      —————-

      one is a vote for a referendum, the other is for independence.

      Oh I see you just wave a magic wand and and make a general election a referendum.

      Is this type of referendum legally binding?

      These politicians who get elected during the magic referendum do they immediately stop going to Westminster? If not why would they be going there?

    189. Republicofscotland says:

      If Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford SNP MP was so outraged today at finding out that Scotland is a hostage, denied democracy by England, then why didn’t his SNP MPs walk out in disgust, answer, because for most of them the outrage is nothing more than an act, an act they need to put on to placate the indy masses back home in Scotland.

      SNP MPs don’t want to lose their cushy well-paid jobs at Westminster, Scotland being held hostage and denied democracy is acceptable in their eyes, and the eyes of our treacherous FM Sturgeon. Remember the same faux outrage over Brexit by the SNP MPs/MSPs and Sturgeon, tell me what came of that, answer zero, nil nada, give it a week or two and the language from Bute House will, maybe not have changed too much, but the false outrage will have.

      Let’s not forget the proposed indyref next year was a MOCK indyref it would’ve had no effect on the status quo, it would merely have gauged opinion in Scotland.

      We are held prisoner by England and our FM and her MPs and MSPs don’t care, maybe some do, but they are too gutless and spineless to open their mouths and say something, in case they lose their place at the Scottish taxpayer’s gravy train.

    190. Doug says:

      All pro independence MPs must remove themselves permanently from Westminster. Just walk out and stay out. Won’t immediately change things of course but at least it would show up Westminster and the so-called united kingdom for what they are: profoundly undemocratic.

    191. Republicofscotland says:

      “Why do you have to break Westminster laws if we are not in a treaty with them?”

      James Che.

      Westminster is holding Scotland as a prisoner, using ITS LAWS, as you say we now know that we are NOT in a union but held hostage by a foreign country, in Westminster’s eyes anyway, we deem our way, to free ourselves from this hostage position will be seen as breaking their laws, I didn’t say their laws were legitimate in Scotland just that it’s their laws.

    192. Scott says:

      UKSC today confirmed that Scotland’s status as an independent nation is a matter for the courts to rule on, which is nice.

      A petition to the nobile officium of the Court of Session, seeking permission to repeal the Union with England Act 1707 for breaches averred is now a perfectly lawful route to independence.

      Fuck yer plebiscites and referendums, this is now a matter of law.

      Happy Christmas.

    193. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      That was english law that cancelled the 1707 Scottish parliament from entering and continuing into the treaty of the union.

      Under Scots Law, Scotland had Sine die’d the Scottish parliament.

      For three hundred years Westminster parliament considers and views itself as the only parliament in the treaty of the union, ( In Westminster), after they cancelled the Scottish parliament in England using the articles of the treaty of the union.

      As we try understand this from their perspective, Their has been no active Scottish parliament in the treaty of the union for the past three hundred years or more,

      A EXTINGUISHED SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT IS A EXTINGUISHED TREATY OF UNIION BETWEEN THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT OF 1707 AND THE ENGLISH PARLIAMENT 1706.

    194. Breeks says:

      Desimond says:
      23 November, 2022 at 3:15 pm

      “Just ask the question”…Just How exactly?

      Put a solitary YES candidate in every constituency with no manifest other than the binary “A vote for me is a vote for Scottish Independence”.

      Win 30 out of the 59 Scottish seats in Westminster and Scotland has a sovereign and democratic mandate for Independence, to withdraw Scotland from Westminster and the Union, and thereby terminate the United Kingdom’s existence.

      Other Independence candidates or parties on the ballot can only split the vote, so it must be agreed between the parties early doors, but already Sturgeon has the SNP stamping their feet like obnoxious prima donas. I wouldn’t trust the SNP and Greens to run a raffle, nevermind a plebiscite General Election.

      Sturgeon has already tried to screw it up by declaring a 50% share of the vote is required as opposed to a minimum 30 seats. Not in a Westminster General Election it isn’t. 30+ seats on that Independence ticket and Scotland walks.

      It has to be a “neutral” YES candidate in every constituency, and every Indy voter knowing what the deal is and voting for the YES candidate and no other.

      Sturgeon has to go, and the sooner she does, the better for Scotland.

    195. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruby says:

      Oh I see you just wave a magic wand and and make a general election a referendum.

      ———–

      no, you stipulate in your manifesto that a vote for your party is a vote for independence, not a referendum. simples.

      no magic wands needed.

    196. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      23 November, 2022 at 3:25 pm

      If Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford SNP MP was so outraged today at finding out that Scotland is a hostage, denied democracy by England, then why didn’t his SNP MPs walk out in disgust,

      ‘cos they had ‘Boeuf en Croûte’ on the menu today. They all like the ‘Boeuf en Croûte’ with lashing of gravy.

      Christmas is coming they wouldn’t want to miss out on all the Christmas Fayre.

    197. Andy Ellis says:

      @Desimond 3.15 pm

      Why should a Westminster General Election care about results in 57 seats out of 650? It didnt recognise Ireland in 1918 having 70% of votes for people on a “Leaving” ticket.

      This isn’t Ireland in 1918 though, it’s Scotland in 2022. We don’t have the “Ulster problem” and we aren’t faced with threats of violence from the imperial power, whatever some of our more hysterical BTL posters might have us believe! Westminster was not reconciled to the concept of Home Rule for Ireland 100 years ago, still less full independence for an Irish republic. They didn’t even know if they could depend on the British army to do their bidding in Ireland, particularly if it had been called upon to suppress a loyalist uprising against Irish home rule or independence, or to enforce their chosen solution if the Irish parties couldn’t agree on a way forward.

      It’s the job of the independence movement to make Westminster care about the results of a plebiscitary election by being crystal clear that it won’t take no for an answer, and that 50% + 1 votes is de facto independence.

      Either we live in a democracy or we don’t. People either accept that the majority wins, or they don’t. Remainers didn’t refuse to accept a 52% Leave vote. Yes voters didn’t refuse to accept a 55% No vote. Them’s the breaks!

      If the Scottish people are supine enough to accept being dictated to, then they can hardly quibble down the line that some bad menz said no and stole their independence. A people whose ancestors swore they would never submit to English rule so long as 100 of them remained alive will be a laughing stock if they meekly “crouch down and lick the hands which feed them”, accepting that they need permission to be free.

    198. Breeks says:

      Scott says:
      23 November, 2022 at 3:35 pm
      UKSC today confirmed that Scotland’s status as an independent nation is a matter for the courts to rule on, which is nice.

      A petition to the nobile officium of the Court of Session, seeking permission to repeal the Union with England Act 1707 for breaches averred is now a perfectly lawful route to independence.

      Fuck yer plebiscites and referendums, this is now a matter of law.

      Happy Christmas.

      Yup. You can also claim all democratic routes to Independence are exhausted (lol except the one I just mentioned last comment, tsk, tsk).

      Personally, I’d load every one of these precedents, legal principles, and SALVO inspired protocols into the same Constitutional blunderbuss and hit the UK government, UN, EU, and International community with the lot. Kaboom.

    199. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “the threshold for victory is winning 30 Westminster Seats on a purely Independence ticket”

      It really really isn’t. You could easily get 30 seats on a third of the vote and if you think the international community is going to recognise a declaration of independence based on a third of the vote then please get in touch immediately about the bridge made of magic beans I have for sale.

    200. Ruby says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      23 November, 2022 at 3:40 pm

      Ruby says:

      Oh I see you just wave a magic wand and and make a general election a referendum.

      ———–

      no, you stipulate in your manifesto that a vote for your party is a vote for independence, not a referendum. simples.

      no magic wands needed.

      Is that in the same way as you stipulate in your manifesto that a vote for your party is a vote for a referendum?

    201. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      Perhaps I am not explaining this very well.

      English laws ended the treaty of the Union articles in 1707 by not accepting the Scottish parliament as a active Scottish 1707 parliament entering into the new British parliament thereafter,

      If we are following english laws from Westminster with regards the treaty of the union, then it is those very same english laws from Westminster that cancelled the Scottish parliament from continuing with the treaty of union of two parliaments to become one parliament of Britain.

      There is no Treaty of union of the two parliaments because of English Westminster Laws.
      Therefore english Westminster law does not tie us to England,

      Its our fear.

    202. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
      JFK, speech at the White House, 13th March 1962.

      Unfortunately, I think that’s exactly what Westminster wants.

      I echo those above who say email all SNP MPs, MSPs and Councillors demanding Sturgeons resignation!

      Some organised local demos outside SNP constituency offices may be an idea for Salvo?

    203. Chas says:

      I have an idea and admit that is maybe a bit radical for some.

      Why does a Political Party in Scotland not try and demonstrate to the electorate how the people in an Independent Scotland would be physically, mentally and financially better off? ‘Trust me on that’ and other meaningless words from Ms Sturgeon and her acolytes does not cut it.

      As it stands the MAJORITY in Scotland currently do NOT support Independence. Generally people vote with their heads and not their hearts, of course, ignoring some of the zealots on here. There are a lot of people out there who would change if someone convinced them to do so. Platitudes from politicians only work for the sheep. Cold, hard, factual analysis and facts work. It is unfortunate that the only person even attempting to provide this is Rev Stu. Why is that?

      By all means folks on here can drone on about Sovereignty, Colonialism,300 year old treaties and ‘fanciful’ means to gain Independence, but this will not change a single thing.

      Get the MAJORITY of people on board the Independence train and it will show up at the station. At present the train is on the drawing board and given the expertise the SNP have in building things I fear for Scotland.

    204. schrodingers cat says:

      @breeks

      gotta agree with the rev, no one will accept that 30 seats with 33% of the vote is a mandate for indy, i wouldnt

      50% +1 it is

      the majority of seats will be pro indy, they have been since 2011

    205. Ottomanboi says:

      TIME2NIX NICOLA…..

      «It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do»

      Edmund Burke

    206. Republicofscotland says:

      Angela Haggerty on Radio Shortbread today getting behind the “idea” that Scots must provide a 60% vote before yes is declared a winner in an indyref that we are not allowed by our jailers.

      I was wondering who was the last PM to be elected PM with a 50+1 percent of the vote.

    207. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruby says:

      Is that in the same way as you stipulate in your manifesto that a vote for your party is a vote for a referendum?
      ————-

      yes, the difference is like voting for someone to take a penalty and voting for someone to score a goal.

      a penalty is a penalty, not a goal

      a goal is a goal

    208. Ruby says:

      I get it now! Sturgeon promised us a referendum but Westminster said NO. Simple solution just change general election to referendum and hey presto Sturgeon has delivered.

      Indy Ref2 to be added to her list of achievements.

    209. Ebok says:

      Then I awake and look around me
      At four grey walls that surround me
      And I realize, yeah
      I was only dreamin’

      The way things are shaping up, many of us will be lying beneath the green green grass long before Indy finally arrives.

      The movement has been shattered into 1000 pieces and todays ruling, and the reaction, including comments on Wings, hardly screams unity of direction.
      I think we all need to take a step back, and pray for leadership and unity to emerge. That won’t happen today, or tomorrow, but it needs to happen quickly.

      The prepared and well-rehearsed speech from Sturgeon makes it clear that she will have to be toppled – she ain’t going voluntarily.
      There is no apparent method for removing her other than by bitter in-fighting and rebellion within NSNP, and a catalyst for this may be next month’s GRR vote. Further unrest in advance of this by the NSNP WM contingent may spread within the party, but who knows?
      And even if this does happen, it will cause further division, but it’s looking increasingly likely that all the bricks will have to be knocked to the ground before we can start to regroup and rebuild.

      For that reason I won’t be duped into attending todays pre-arranged demo’s by this callous manipulator, who will, no doubt, claim any large scale turnout as a show of support for her. I’m hoping today’s demo’s will be a damp squib, I’m hoping that the electorate stop dreaming, and I’m hoping when they wake up they will see the light.

    210. Aulbea1 says:

      For being the figurehead, sturgeon will be very well rewarded through & by the establishment she serves.

    211. Breeks says:

      How many completely non-democratic countries in the world have International recognition but no democracy at all? Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, China, Jordan, North Korea…

      International Recognition isn’t a science, it’s the prerogative of the Nation who gives it, and if Scotland had dutifully observed Westminster Protocol to return a sovereign democratic mandate which withdrew Scotland from the UK, I do not accept there is any barrier to securing International recognition.

      If UK democracy is broken and dysfunctional, then let that be the demise of the broken and dysfunctional UK.

      Why should I, as a sovereign Scot, accept ANY ballot or election in Scotland as legitimate when our broadcast media is State sponsored propaganda which indoctrinates our population daily? Why do these violations of democratic purity only compromise Scotland?

      If you’re so worried about a “perfect” gold standard democracy, then dissolve the Union on 30+ Westminster seats, crash the Union, but commit Scotland to a ratification plebiscite after 2 years, as if we had an Article 50 type Brexit Leaving Protocol to be approved by the people.

      Even if that Plebiscite is lost, (god help us), the 1707 Union would be dead and a new Treaty of Union would be required. We’d be hard pushed to negotiate a worse one than 1707.

      We take our chances on 30 seats victory; the benchmark Thatcher feared, and strive hard, working with other nations to explain our legitimacy in Law, our colonial style oppression and exploitation, and we win them over for recognition.

    212. Gregory Beekman says:

      We’re not prisoners.

      Here’s the solution to getting out of the UK:

      Create a party that sits UK-wide. Once that gains power in Westminster, it can change the law so that devolved nations can hold referenda whenever they choose, but also that UK gov can impose one.

      Then a referendum is held and we hope we get the answer we want.

      Simples.

    213. Gregory Beekman says:

      This is basically what Alistair Jack said.

    214. daodao says:

      This is not a judgement imposed by England on Scotland, but a decision by the UK Supreme Court, whose president and deputy president are both Scotsmen – the Lords Robert John Reed and Patrick Hodge.

    215. Calum says:

      For anyone who doesn’t know, you can find and write to your elected representatives here:

      https://www.writetothem.com/

      I’m not particularly optimistic that writing to these folk will achieve much but it just took a few minutes to contact both my MP and MSP (all my regional MSPs are non SNP).

    216. schrodingers cat says:

      in 1707, the sovereignty of the english monarch was invested in the english parlaiment, the sovereignty of the scots monarch was invested in the scots people.

      what happened with the treaty of the union left the result vague, the contradiction was never clarified. until today that is.

      until today, many in scotland believed that the people of scotland remained sovereign, that also included many unionists, indeed, it was often used by unionists as a reason for the union.

      todays clarification was the last thing unionists in scotland wanted to hear, they have been avoiding this clarification for 300 years.

      todays decision only delays the people of scotland voting on its constitutional future. there exists no mechanism to dictate to anyone what they put in a manifesto or whether people can vote for that manifesto.

      thats why we see calls today from labour for a 60% threshold

    217. Gregory Beekman says:

      Who is up for founding “The UK-Wide Scottish Independence Party”?

    218. Republicofscotland says:

      “I was wondering who was the last PM to be elected PM with a 50+1 percent of the vote.”

      After a wee search it turns out from (1918-2021) UK GE elections, no Labour or Conservative government has even reached the 50% mark never mind the 50+1 percent mark.

      On the other hand.

      The May 2015 election, when the SNP party received 50% of the vote in Scotland and won 56 seats.

      https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7529/

    219. Breeks says:

      … that’s what Willie MacRae and the Scottish UN Committee we’re doing in the ‘80s, lobbying for Scotland all over Europe and the UN, winning them over to our side.

      That what Scotland should have been doing every minute of these 8 wasted years under Sturgeon.

    220. Gregory Beekman says:

      Or maybe we could call it Jock Go!?

      We’d probably get more votes in England that way!

    221. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks

      The international community recognises countries. It doesn’t play favourites, nor does it seek to erect a camp of the saints containing only virtuous nations that abide by all the supposedly generally accepted principles of international law, which is itself an imperfect and far from generally accepted corpus of laws.

      If you want to live in the North West European equivalent of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, or Transnistria or Somaliland or South Ossetia, by all means carry on. The international community won’t give a flying fuck at a rolling donut, and you won’t have a lot of luck travelling on your new Scottish passport, or trying to exchange yer baw bees for Euros next time you fancy a couple of weeks in Ibiza.

      Rev Stu is right. It’s passing strange that folk still can’t see it, but then look what happened when he tried to school them on the cunning franchise restriction plan!

      Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose?

    222. Breeks says:

      Has she resigned yet?

    223. Republicofscotland says:

      “This is not a judgement imposed by England on Scotland, but a decision by the UK Supreme Court, whose president and deputy president are both Scotsmen – the Lords Robert John Reed and Patrick Hodge.”

      UKSC created in 2009 by House Jock Gordon Brown, who put a few Scottish House Jock judges on it to shut up Scots. Fastforward to today, and a few House Jocks still sit on it.

      Don’t try and tell me it doesn’t have our jailers (England) best interests at heart.

      I don’t recognise the authority of England’s UKSC over Scotland and Scottish affairs.

    224. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruby says:
      I get it now! Sturgeon promised us a referendum but Westminster said NO. Simple solution just change general election to referendum and hey presto Sturgeon has delivered.

      ————-

      no, Nicola pursued the referendum option as it was and still is the best route to independence for exactly the same reason that bojo refused a referendum in favour of resolving the brexit issue at westminster with an election. he won a 80 seat majority and a mandate for a hard brexit with only 43% of the vote, had he opted for a peoples vote (euref2)there was a good chance remain would have won.

      todays ruling stopped holyrood holding a referendum, it did not and cannot stop scots from voting

    225. Johnny says:

      Gregory Beekman:

      Of course he is at it.

      I don’t think such a thing could ever work but if it WERE to be attempted, it’d need to be a pan-UK party but basically appealing to each constituent nation of the UK, i.e. telling English voters why the union is bad for THEM, Scottish why it’s bad for THEM, and so on.

      The way it’s put by Jack is of course an utter nonsense on purpose – who could seriously go to the English electorate saying only “vote for us to benefit Scottish voters!”?

    226. Oneliner says:

      Vote SNP 1 & 2 – that was a cracker eh?

    227. d.n. wade says:

      Isn’t Sturgeon now simply using the referendum issue to deflect attention from her multiple incompetencies on ferries, health, education, gender and so forth?

    228. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Stu.,

      Do you remember that raving troll with 27 identities… Rock, Kcor etc?

      His poker-type “tell” that gave away a strong likelihood it was the same TROLL as “Rock” etc. was an error in his/her/its punctuation. Instead of three dots for an ellipsis, he/she/it would misuse three commas “,,,”

      At the time he/she/it caused HAVOC with Unionist-type trolling.

      Their modus operandi is to be very reasonable at first. Then when other reasonable people engage with he/she/it, they would get very nasty, very quick and into havoc mode. Several folk did spot the ellipsis error and he/she/it’s muscle-memory mistake in using three commas as their form of ellipsis,,,

      Stu., you may have sussed this, but I bet you £20 that Amadan is back on your website under the new fake ID of “Rab Davis” and will emerge with other 27 IDs to cause HAVOC again.

      Any surprise that this character is proving a mild irritant within 3 days of your relaunching the Wings website…

      ——————————————————

      BEWARE, THIS IS LIKELY TO BE THE TROLL, FORMERLY KNOWN AS “ROCK” OR “KCOR” AND 27 OTHER FAKE ID’S IN THEIR EFFORT TO CAUSE BTL HAVOC AND WASTE EVERYONES TIME…

      Rab Davis says:
      23 November, 2022 at 10:40 am
      Rev,

      We all know what we CAN’T do,,,

      What is your opinion on things we CAN do?

    229. Gregory Beekman says:

      Johnny says @4:30pm

      We could sell it to England as “getting rid of the Jocks, to the benefit of everyone”

      I’m sure a lot of English would go for it!!!

    230. Luigi says:

      Ah the 60% figure rears it’s ugly head again. Here’s an idea: OK 60% threshold required BUT it’s neverendum until one side achieves this. Indy ref held annually until the 60% threshold is met by either the unionists or independenistas. Then it’s settled for a political generation (20 years). What’s not to like? The yoons have to understand that 60% works both ways. They didn’t achieve 60% in 2014 after all. Some of them thought they would lol. If they had I don’t think we would still be talking independence in 2022.

    231. Hatuey says:

      The international community already recognises the validity of parliamentary democracy based on seats rather than votes and decisions are made, agreements are signed, wars started and ended, on that basis every single day.

      Nobody at say the UN, to my knowledge, has ever argued that a government lacks legitimacy because it only won a majority of seats rather than votes, and if they did I would expect it to lead to mayhem.

      Maybe the Scottish people are more exceptional than I appreciate and in the case of Scottish independence we must meet this higher standard based on votes rather than seats — something we usually call a referendum. But Westminster is blocking a referendum.

      On one had we are being asked to meet a higher standard, on the other we are denied a referendum which would allow us to do that. Why should we apply the rules of a referendum in terms of vote count to a General Election? Why concede that to the very people that are blocking a referendum?

      Here’s a better idea. We have a defacto referendum using a general election. If we win a majority of seats we go ahead and begin the process of establishing an independent country. And then at some point, just to keep the democratic purists happy, we have a proper referendum, without Westminster, British State, and BBC meddling or pulling any stunts…

      Sorted.

    232. orri says:

      One thing this does though is renders any deal the SNP may have made selling women’s rights to ensure the Greens support in Holyrood redundant. Passing a referendum bill was the only excuse, and a barely passable one at that, for the pandering to the trans lobby.

      If anything this frees up any SNP MSP to vote on their conscience rather than continue down a road dictated by the blackmail of a party that might in all possibility withhold support at any point.

      The only threat now is to Sturgeon as First Minister rather than the SNP as a whole. Without Green support she might be deposed. Let them. In theory they could ally with the unionists and oust the SNP. Let them. It’ll show them for what they are.

    233. Graf Midgehunter says:

      I’ll repeat myself:
      “If you really want Independence you will have to fight for it. Ask the Irish and French what that means..”

      Shauny Boy:
      “The only way this happens and has ever happened is by forcing the British state to its knees. So why don’t you get pissed at the politicians we elected to get us out of this mess who have done fuck all but buy sports cars, castles and line their fucking pockets, eh?”

      https://mobile.twitter.com/shiny02/status/1595443706970128385

      If all you do is docile happy-clappy marches which sound more like musicals, the ever same speeches from the NSNP – to – ALBA, the Establishment/WM/Sturgeon will just laugh at you.

      A happy Jock is a House Jock.. 🙁

    234. Effijy says:

      Remember Cameron PM at Indy Ref –
      we love you we are equal partners we abolished slavery together
      How can it be abolished if Scotland is England’s slave and we have no rights above their whim?

    235. Ottomanboi says:

      A survival of the fittest contest scenario looms.
      Which is fitter the fresh spirit of rebirth of a nation or the huffing and puffing of a superannuated system?

    236. Caroline Macintyre says:

      “But our anger is almost beyond description.”……..I’m apoplectic!!!! Disgusted and raging!!! And so incredibly heartbroken, all at the same time

    237. Andy Ellis says:

      I see “Beaker” Greer has confirmed that the Scottish Greens plan to field a full slate of candidates at the 2024 GE and that their party line was that every Green vote would count as a pro independence vote in a plebiscitary election.

      So, there we have it….: no combined Yes slate in prospect. The clueless Greens have form for this sort of thing of course.

      On the plus side it does mean that since the Greens have already broken ranks, the movement as a whole can now proceed on the basis that no one party “owns” the pro-independence vote in plebiscitary elections.

      It is vital that before any such election, the whole movement unites around one thing, even if it can’t unite around anything else: the votes for every pro-independence party standing on a plebiscitary platform count towards the 50% + 1 hurdle.

      The main task now surely is to ramp up the pressure on SNP members to push for early Holyrood elections NOT to rely on the 2024 Westminster GE.

    238. Jamie says:

      Graf midgehunter

      The baltic countries won independence without a war against a super power. I’m sure we can win ours relatively peaceful too against a minor power.

      Once a majority want independence and vote for it in an election we will get it.

      Alba will stand every 5 years for it and eventually we will win.

      Perseverance and patience. We are close but a way to go yet. We just need to keep on keeping on and we will get there. It is going that way.

    239. Ruby says:

      New message from the SNP.


      The SNP will launch and mobilise a major campaign in defence of Scottish democracy. For we should be in no doubt – as of today, democracy is what is at stake.
      Nicola Sturgeon MSP First Minister of Scotland

      SNP STANDING UP FOR SCOTTISH DEMOCRACY

      Ha! Ha! Ha! She can’t be serious!

      Does Nicola Sturgeon have a mandate to make the GE24 into a referendum?

      Did we vote for this or is Sturgeon just dictating that is what it’s going to be.

      What about her GRRB? Does she have a mandate for that?

      She is going to have to explain how Scotland can possibly have democracy while in the UK.

      How come she is only starting to defend Scottish democracy today?

    240. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL TROLL HITS OF THE 77TH BRIGADE

      Remember the days when Wings Over Scotland was mega-trolled by panicking Unionist trolls?

      Well, within 3 days of Stuart Campbell relaunching the best political blog in Europe, we have a NEW 77th Brigade artiste….

      Introducing the NEW TROLL ON THE BLOCK…

      Rab Davis,,,

      He/she/it had a list of HIT TROLL fake accounts. Who could forget such r4pe apologists and excrement-puke barfers such as…

      “Rock”

      “Kcor”

      “Gordon”

      “Eugene Henderson”

      “Stainless Steel”

      “Market Force”

      “Davie170”

      “Labour4Indy”

      “Patrick Jones”

      “Andy”?

      So if you are terminally bored and fancy a bit of verbal sad-o masochism with yourself being verbally abused, all you need do is reply to one of MASTER BAITER TROLL Rab Davis’ posts.

      He/she/it starts out with a very reasonable point.

      Then drags you down a rabbit-hole of increasingly nasty litany of abuse.

      Hey presto, an hour of your life will be wasted and Scottish Independence will not have moved an inch forward.

      Best idea? Just scroll-on-by when you see Rab Davis posting.

    241. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Jamie says: at 5:16 pm

      “Graf midgehunter

      The baltic countries won independence without a war against a super power. I’m sure we can win ours relatively peaceful too against a minor power.

      Once a majority want independence and vote for it in an election we will get it.”
      —————–
      At that time the Soviet Empire/Warsaw Pact was on its last drunken knees and many/all of the Pact countries saw their chance to get back their independence and went for it. Some “sang” their way to freedom, others were more conventional but they did it.

      Their whole populations wanted it enough to do it.

      Now let’s talk about Scotland… talking not doing. 🙁

    242. stuart mctavish says:

      Maybe its been misreported but nothing in the judgements conclusion:

      (1) The provision of the proposed Scottish Independence Referendum Bill that provides that the question to be asked in a referendum would be “Should Scotland be an independent country?” does relate to reserved matters.

      (2) In particular, it relates to (i) the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England and (ii) the Parliament of the United Kingdom

      prevents holding indyref2 next October.. and whilst the suggestion may get overtaken by events, easy way to overcome any reservations in disrespecting the essence of the judgement would be to pull the plug on the union now (or, whenever England world cup run ends) and change the question to “Should Scotland re enter a political Union with England.”

    243. John Main says:

      So …

      Thats it until January 2025, the next UK General Election.

      2+ years of this to go. Jeezo.

      The Indy movement needs a new leader. Who is she? Where is she? Or he, or it.

      As I posted earlier, perhaps Rev Stu could start profiling some of the possible candidates.

      It needs to be somebody a majority of Scots will vote for, believe in, and trust.

      Competency would be a bonus.

    244. Ottomanboi says:

      «I DO ACCEPT AND RESPECT THE JUDGMENT»
      Let that be inscribed on your grave, on which many would love to dance.

      Rishi Sunak ought to have sweaty nightmares telling the Scots to work for the greater good of the Ukrain supporting imperial power

    245. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main

      I have my doubts the Tories will wait until January 2025: they’ll probably take a punt before then at whatever point they think they will lose fewest seats to Labour.

      The next Holyrood election isn’t due until May 2026 at the latest.

      We just need a handful of SNP MSPs with a backbone to hold a political gun to Nicola’s head. I’ve just about given up hoping that the feckless SNP membership will bestir themselves to do anything.

    246. Shug says:

      John main
      Competency would be a big change

    247. Jon Drummond says:

      No-one has any idea as to how angry I am.

      I worked my arse off for Indy ref1.

      I then continued to support SNP 100%, working as both Branch and Constituency organiser at significant expense to myself, both in time and ££.

      Do I feel shafted? Aye, for f*ckin years now.

      Duplicitous basterds every fkn one (maybe except 1/2)

      SO much more I could say given subsequent water under the bridge but most folk hate a ranter…

    248. PacMan says:

      Big Jock says: 23 November, 2022 at 12:40 pm

      Depressing as it is. In all likelihood. Nothing will happen until the next GE. We are all going to have to hold our noses and vote SNP when that comes. On the caveat that they set out a clear mandate process before the GE.

      Personally for me it would be a majority of seats, But Sturgeon wants to go down the 50% threshold. The only way that will work is making sure everyone is clear on this. If we get 50% with a mixture of Greens and SNP . Westminster will spin this as a failure.

      You don’t need a crystal ball to know what will happen.

      Sturgeon has a rallying call for the next Westminster election by standing on a platform of either getting x number of seats or X percentage of votes.

      Even if this is met, Westminster simply ignores her. She then bluffs and blusters until the run up to the next Holyrood election and stands on the same platform.

      The result is Westminster still ignores her and her position is safe for a number of years.

      That’s me opinion and people need to vote the way they feel. I won’t be voting for the SNP again simply because you are not voting for them for independence but for their policies and those like the HCB and GRA stinks.

    249. Merganser says:

      d.n. Wade @ 4.41. ‘using the referendum issue to deflect attention’

      Spot on with this comment. And even worse, she hopes to avoid any scrutiny of her record by trying to make the next election a single issue one, so that the issues you mention would not be permitted to be discussed.

      For everyone pushing for a plebiscitary election:

      PLEASE READ Stu’s ARTICLE OF 28th SEPTEMBER 2022 ‘THE NEVER ENDING MANDATE’ WHICH SHOWS YOU WHAT THIS WILL (NOT) ACHIEVE.

    250. stuart mctavish says:

      @me

      For avoidance of doubt, when Lord Reed said

      “accordingly the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to legislate for a referendum on Scottish independence”

      he was either mistaken or unable to comprehend his own judgement.

      ref material here:
      https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2022-0098.html

      (skip to 13 min mark of the video summary for Lord Reed’s misrepresentation of the judgement.)

    251. John Main says:

      @Ottomanboi says:23 November, 2022 at 5:48 pm

      Your post is logically all over the place.

      Maybes you should revert to first principles. Do you support imperialism or not?

      Having decided aye/naw, you can then apply your choice consistently when you come to decide who are the imperialists, who the colonised, who the bastards, and who the deserving victims.

      Don’t you get it wrong now!

    252. Viscount Ennui says:

      The de facto route is likely to face a significant legal challenge if the ‘result’ is to be interpreted by seats won, for the very obvious reason that each vote in a referendum counts; whereas those in a constituency do not.
      It may be possible to use total votes as a measure of support, but not seats.
      NS has failed to instil any sense of excitement about independence but has relied instead on cynicism and hatred to fuel her drive towards indyref2 whilst at the same time corrupting most aspects of Scottish civil life. The undecided are beginning to understand what she has done to the country she inherited from AS and thus the indy vote appears to have plateaued.
      We appear to be going nowhere fast.

    253. Effijy says:

      The BBC Framing Scots have no power to do anything England doesn’t permit.

      Interview unionists on the street and give extensive coverage to a Unionist professor
      who can dissect bit by bit Scots are nothing and nothing they can do about it.

      Sturgeon is going to convene an SNP meeting for Spring 2023.
      There goes another cosy feet Year and another year where a promised referendum isn’t happening.

      It appears the entire Scottish nation has to declare itself trans before we can ask again for equal rights.

    254. sarah says:

      O/T: Holyrood security still messing around – this afternoon they asked Neale Hanvey to remove a suffragette ribbon from his jacket!!!!

    255. Jamie says:

      Graf midgehunter,

      I agree, the Soviet Union was on it’s last legs but I would suggest that the United Kingdom is also on it’s last legs.

      The United Kingdom used to be a super power but those days are long over.

      The final outcome in my humble opinion is that the UK will break up and England will inherit the security Council seat and be the big man on the world stage that’s their aspiration.

      Scotland can crack on catching up with Norway and become a prosperous, wealthy European country with an educated, wealthy and healthy citizens.

      Alba are working right now. They have people knocking on doors and making the case for independence every week.

      The response on the door step is positive and eventually it will translate into votes.

      Even organising protests at the Parliament whilst symbolic it is important to some people and it mobilises and encourages many.

      All these little things that people do, this is the work, the job we have that Alba will play an important part in.

      Wings over Scotland will also play a very important part too and these, in my opinion along with yours for Scotland are the important drivers of change that we should support and work with.

      I would not rule out Salvo either and it is worth keeping an eye on.

      Alba Gu snooker loopy!

    256. Jamie says:

      Graf midgehunter,

      I agree, the Soviet Union was on it’s last legs but I would suggest that the United Kingdom is also on it’s last legs.

      The United Kingdom used to be a super power but those days are long over.

      The final outcome in my humble opinion is that the UK will break up and England will inherit the security Council seat and be the big man on the world stage that’s their aspiration.

      Scotland can crack on catching up with Norway and become a prosperous, wealthy European country with an educated, wealthy and healthy citizens.

      Alba are working right now. They have people knocking on doors and making the case for independence every week.

      The response on the door step is positive and eventually it will translate into votes.

      Even organising protests at the Parliament whilst symbolic it is important to some people and it mobilises and encourages many.

      All these little things that people do, this is the work, the job we have that Alba will play an important part in.

      Wings over Scotland will also play a very important part too and these, in my opinion along with yours for Scotland are the important drivers of change that we should support and work with.

      I would not rule out Salvo either and it is worth keeping an eye on.

    257. PacMan says:

      Due to climate change the Artic North Sea Route could be ice free or at a point where it could be safely turned into a shipping route.

      As per links, Orkney is the world’s second largest natural harbour and Europe’s largest natural harbour and would play a big role in the hypothetical opening up of the NSR as a shipping route.

      It is a powerful argument that doesn’t seem to be given more coverage in the independence debate but if the NSR did become a shopping lane in the near future,it puts Scotland in an unique position in international affairs.

      It is a shame that we don’t have competent leaders in the independence movement to push this forward to gain more sympathy on an international level that would benefit from the NSR shipping lane and shall we say, overcome the inertia of certain interests in the international community that is against Scottish independence.

      https://rosatomnewsletter.com/2021/08/30/arctic-sea-lane/

      https://polarconnection.org/scotland-marine-innovation-arctic/

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_shipping_routes#Future_projections

    258. John Main says:

      @Shug says:23 November, 2022 at 6:06 pm

      It’s my opinion that most apolitical Scots would be hard pressed to pick out more than a handful of MPs and MSPs from a line up.

      But I doubt if any Scot would fail to pick out NS.

      And that’s a big problem. Her replacement, if she/he is to hold up and eventually grow Indy support, has to have that kind of immediate recognition to the voters.

      Nobody meets that test, apart from AS. If he wants to come back, great, but he needs to get out of the starting blocks and fast.

      Wings will be a great forum for showcasing potential replacements for NS. All of these people, whoever they are, need all the publicity they can get. The MSM is not going to help them till they have achieved a critical mass of support.

      Right now, like it or not, NS continues to be the only universally recognised face of Indy to most Scots. It’s going to take time to change that, so the time to start changing that is now.

      And yeah, competency can’t harm the candidate’s chances.

    259. Big Jock says:

      Pac Man.

      I won’t vote SNP if the proposal is not watertight , and the process clearly set out. In previous elections they have asked for a mandate for a referendum. So they haven’t proposed the election being a vote for independence previously.

      As I say. The devil will be in the detail. I will be voting for whatever is best for Scotland. I will not vote against the SNP if that would be a defacto unionist vote.

    260. Republicofscotland says:

      Democratic, legal and constitutional says Sturgeon as she says Scotland will find another way to give Scots the vote.

      Let’s look at that, we wouldn’t be in this position if Sturgeon hadn’t allowed her Lord Advocate to ask the UKSC for permission, as for the legality I don’t believe Sturgeon will use the next GE as a plebiscite without Westminster’s permission.

      But more importantly Sturgeon’s indyref next year was a MOCK indyref which would have had no bearing on exiting our hostage status.

      STV news running with the need for the 50% threshold on any plebiscite election or indyref, whilst NO PM in a GE election for more than 100 years has reached the 50% figure.

      If it’s good enough for a GE to allow a winning PM to enter Ten Downing Street without the 50% threshold, but with a majority of seats, then it should be good enough for Scotland. A majority of indy MPs should be enough to break our hostage bonds.

    261. John Main says:

      @ Jamie says:23 November, 2022 at 6:31 pm

      The final outcome in my humble opinion is that the UK will break up

      Of course, but when?

      Anybody remember Hunt’s recent budget?

      The analysis I read/heard stated that the markets had been calmed up until 2028 by the policies in that budget.

      I thought at the time that obviously the break up of the UK isn’t going to happen before 2028. The markets have spoken. If they thought the UK might break up, their views would be very different.

      Go figure.

    262. Viscount Ennui says:

      Another argument against the de facto route is that voters would effectively be advised not to vote tactically but only on the basis of a Y/N to independence.
      I have never not voted tactically.
      You just cannot do it this way.

    263. Breeks says:

      Have you all signed up to Liberation dot Scot?

      https://liberation.scot/

      Spread the word.

      No spaces in your username.

      We need to support this as a yardstick of pro independence determination. Get signed up.

    264. Viscount Ennui says:

      Oh, and the Electoral Commission could well intervene to stop any attempt at using a G.E. as a fake referendum.

    265. McHaggis69 says:

      I understand Wet Pishfart is so happy with todays decision he has gone and purchased some new slippers to see him past 2024

    266. Paul Kelly says:

      It’s going to be a long road and the SNP will need another leader.
      Question is who?

    267. Dorothy Devine says:

      Sarah , I hope he refused to remove it.

    268. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      23 November, 2022 at 6:42 pm

      If it’s good enough for a GE to allow a winning PM to enter Ten Downing Street without the 50% threshold, but with a majority of seats, then it should be good enough for Scotland. A majority of indy MPs should be enough to break our hostage bonds.

      Of course it’s good enough. It’s using the First Past the Post Democracy which “the mother of all Parliaments” uses. Name me one General Election determined on share of the vote.

      There’s an expression that runs the day shit is worth money, is the day poor people get born without arseholes.

      That’s Scotland’s predicament. As I say repeatedly, when Westminster holds both ends of the string, it doesn’t matter what Scotland does, how many hoops it leaps through, stairs it climbs, or riddles it solves, there will ALWAYS be another summit of Westminster sophistry still to be climbed.

      It’s your UK democracy that converts votes into seats, and then counts seats to create a Parliament. That’s their system, and we should use their system to our advantage. What can they say?

      That’s the system whereby 30 Scottish seats on an explicit and binary Independence pledge represents an unassailable sovereign mandate to dissolve the Union.

      A 50% share of the vote is a referendum protocol. All it means is you get more votes than the other guy, and that’s you on 50%+ share of the vote by default! You cannot win a referendum on less than 50% of the vote.

      But that ISN’T the protocol for a First Past the Post Plebiscite Election. Your threshold is winning 30 seats; a democratic majority of the 59 seats available to Scotland.

    269. Breeks says:

      …. Just don’t give those 30 Westminster Seats to the fkg useless SNP.

    270. sarah says:

      @ Dorothy Devine: I hope Neale kept the ribbon on. I just saw a tweet from Chris McEleney about the incident but don’t know the outcome.

    271. handclapping says:

      And of course we all know that Lina Medina gave birth aged 5 years 7 months and 21 days which we regularly repeat to Unionists who insist we promised that a referendum would only take place omce in a generation

    272. Andy Ellis says:

      But that ISN’T the protocol for a First Past the Post Plebiscite Election. Your threshold is winning 30 seats; a democratic majority of the 59 seats available to Scotland.

      The number of seat is irrelevant. in 2015 the SNP won 56 of 59 MPs with just under 50% of the vote.

      The international community would not recognise that result as a basis for independence in a plebiscitary election because IT’S NOT A MAJORITY!

      It doesn’t matter whether it’s a Westminster GE or a Holyrood GE. 50% + 1 is enough in either, and certainly a lot more likely to happen, and to be recognised as legitimate, than cunning plans for indy.

    273. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Oh, and the Electoral Commission could well intervene to stop any attempt at using a G.E. as a fake referendum.”

      No they couldn’t. There’s absolutely nothing they can do to dictate the content of any party’s manifesto.

    274. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The “take it to the UN, they’ll listen” claim is thoroughly debunked in the very clear ruling:-

      “The Scotland Act allocates powers between the United Kingdom and Scotland as part of a constitutional settlement. It establishes a
      carefully calibrated scheme of devolution powers. Nothing in the allocation of powers, however widely or narrowly interpreted, infringes any principle of self-determination.”

      How does that debunk it? It says self-determination still applies.

    275. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks.

      Here is the link to the Commons archives that shows no UK PM has had a 50% for at least one-hundred years.

      You can bet that the media House Jocks will be calling for the touted 60% threshold at the next GE as Angela Haggerty was today on Radio Shortbread.

      What I think might happen is Sturgeon will call for the next GE to be de facto plebiscite, but we can’t trust her, the missing 600k, the jailing of prominent indy bloggers, the fit up of an ex-FM, the damaging of the sections of the indy movement that she has no control over, the 50 refusals at the Alex Salmond Inquiry, and again at the Ferries Fiasco, her refusal to hold an indyref after Brexit, the many carrot dangling exercises on holding an indyref, the HCB and the GRR, are to name but a few reason why Sturgeon simply cannot be trusted.

      https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7529/

    276. Brendan says:

      Why does Alex Salmond not go for the jugular with sturgeon and her accomplises. And destroy any shred of integrity the parasite toom tabard has

    277. Jamie says:

      John Main

      I agree, probably unlikely before 2028 because it sounds like people have settled on 50% needed for independence.

      I’m not sure the SNP can get that. A lot of people will need to hold their nose to vote SNP just to get independence and whilst I may if directed by Alba vote SNP holding my nose for the sake of independence I suspect that Alba is the route to independence and sadly, I could be wrong but I suspect that will require the hoi polloi paying attention to politics for a bit and realising SNP is probably not capable of delivering independence due to being distracted with other issues.

      It took a long time for Scottish voters to see how incompetent Scottish Labour were. It will probably take numerous issues before folk will change to Alba.

      So whilst it will take time, it was always thus. At least thanks to Alex Salmond we start off on 45% we only need another 5 % so we are definitely nearly there but the last yards will be the hardest.

      We will do it.

    278. Rab Davis says:

      So the Sturgeon plan for the next General Election will be for Scots to vote SNP only.

      That could end up with 57 SNP MPs on 49% of the vote.

      And round we go again.

      All marched back down the hill again to start the process of Supreme Court visits.

      Sturgeon has got the roadmap for this planned well into the 2030s.

      She is a confidence trickster of the highest order.

      She has ran rings round every single one of us.

      Only a catastrophic event will bring the bastard down.

      She’s been a Unionist plant since day one.

    279. robertkknight says:

      The friendly Sassenach @1:53

      Ever seen a cat play with a mouse, before removing the head from the body? That’ll be Westminster vs Holyrood with Sturgeon in charge.

      Personally, I feel a weight has been lifted after today…

      It comes from resolving to live out the rest of my days in a country that had the courage to leave the Union, rather than live in one which doesn’t.

      I’ll just need to break my vow never to fly with Ryanair…(again).

    280. Stuart MacKay says:

      This has some interesting figures,

      Voting on Independence and National Issues: A Historical and Comparative Study of Referendums on Self-Determination and Secession

      https://journals.openedition.org/rfcb/366

      Tables 1 & 2 have the relevant figures. Basically 50% + 1 is not even remotely close to being decisive by the countries listed. Think more like 70% and above. 90%+ is probably what you need.

      Dissolving treaties, I presume, is entirely another matter. The party that wins on that mandate gets to do whatever they want.

    281. Dan says:

      Wonder what the 30% of previous No voters think of today’s decision.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/who-governs-the-governed/

      ———-

      Will Unionist controlled Councils play ball if a plebiscite election is to be held that strays into reserved matters.

      ———-

      Plus, there’s also the proposed Referendum Super Majority Bill that also hints there’d be further sophistry and gerrymandering if a plebiscite election was to be held.

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1590028438571606016

      Plus Unionists spouting 50% + 1 not being a democratic mandate isn’t new. (2017)

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-nothing-you-can-do/

    282. Bob Mack says:

      The Right of self determination for colonial peoples and countries.

      That is wnhat the Intrnational Court of Human Rights base their cases on.

      You may have wondered why the Supreme Court was at pains to emphasise Scotland was not a colony. Now you know.

      The Intrnational Court may bem reluctant to hemar tha case nc

    283. Bob Mack says:

      Damn predictatext to hell.

    284. Skip_NC says:

      Dan, I struggle to see how unionist controlled councils could stop a plebiscite election. Firstly, any party is free to state its own manifesto. Secondly, I am pretty sure councils are under a statutory duty to conduct elections.

      The problem I see is the result. I hope Alba will go for a one-line manifesto. What the SNP and Greens do is a worry. Their manifestos could state that they will set up an inter-party committee with fairly broad terms of reference so that decisions can be reached after careful consideration, rather than rushing prematurely into a decision that may not be in the best interests of all concerned, the final report to be drafted no later than February 2035. (With apologies to Sir Humphrey Appleby.)

    285. Andy Ellis says:

      @Rev Stu 7.32 pm

      How does that debunk it? It says self-determination still applies.

      Exactly. The whole point of the unionist “appeal to reason’ before the international community is to say that, unlike the Spanish government they are not saying never, just that “now is not the time” and that Scotland doesn’t have the right to dictate terms to the whole of the UK on the principle that it would be the tail wagging the dog.

      Infuriating as we might find that, the only way to over-turn it in the eyes of the international community is to demonstrate a majority for independence. The international community will be agnostic as to whether that’s demonstrated ina referendum or plebiscitary elections. They will insist on it being a clear majority however.

      As the SC hinted in the remarks today, the international community and international law is inherently conservative: the Canadian Supreme Court went out of its way to try and reinforce the view that ordinarily self determination did not apply to cases like Quebec, Catalonia or Scotland because.

      They aren’t colonial situations, they’re not being oppressed and they can exercise their rights in other ways (unless of course you’re a paid up “Scotland as colony enthusiast” in which case, it should be a breeze, right….? We just go to the UN and get included on the list of non self governing territories. Good luck with that one!).

      For the international community to shift its paradigm from accepting the result of a “legal referendum” – which there is every indication they would have done in 2014 had we voted Yes – to accepting a majority gained in plebiscitary election isn’t that big an ask but it does presuppose the Scottish independence movement demonstrates that it has tried the other routes, the British nationalists are not acting in good faith, and that the new route is therefore equally valid.

      Interestingly the Canadian SC also said that one of the parties not negotiating in good faith could be regarded as sufficient rationale for the international community to recognise UDI.

    286. Aunty Flo says:

      @ Astonished says:
      ‘Could we not just call Sturgeon – Our Imperial Overseer?’

      Well, considering she has, as a member of the Privy Council, recently sworn an oath of allegiance (see below) to the new King and to his parliament, that’s actually spot on!

      ‘you will to your uttermost bare faith and allegiance unto the King’s majesty and will assist and defend all jurisdictions, pre-eminencies and authorities granted to his majesty and annexed to the crown by acts of parliament etc’…..

    287. Republicofscotland says:

      Another facet of the Britnat media and its colonial outposts in Scotland is that today they kept mentioning that support to break free from our captors wasn’t at 50% or above. However, if I recall correctly that not that long ago the English government tried desperately to block the results of polls it carried out on Scottish independence even going to court to block access to them.

      This tells me that the results of those polls favour Scotland breaking free from its abductor, and in high numbers into the bargain.

    288. Breeks says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      23 November, 2022 at 7:57 pm

      This has some interesting figures…

      Aye, that’s quite interesting, but at the risk of repeating myself, I don’t think there is another country on the planet in Scotland’s predicament, in a “Union” that isn’t a Union, Sovereign and non-sovereign at the same time, and indoctrinated daily by monopolised propaganda on TV, radio, and printed media.

      There isn’t another country with Scotland’s ancient Constitution, popular sovereignty, documented “birth certificate” from 1320, recognised by the Pope and Dowager Queen of England in 1328.

      Scotland is only a democracy in name, because there are all kinds of shenanigans going on to create disorder in Scotland’s political landscape. Just look at who gets seats on a discussion panels when they have tenuous legitimacy or presence in Scotland. It’s all rigged with false narratives pedaled as truth.

      Why should we be bound to democracy when the only democracy available to us is a corrupt and dirty sham that gives “true” democracy a bad name?

      So on the balance, I’m not really bothered about about other places voting in such strength. Scotland is a unique basket case which will be creating a precedent whatever it does.

      I thought the following was interesting however…

      “Special majority requirements are no exception: a special majority quorum is often a mechanism of obstructionism. This was arguably the case in the late 1970s when the Callaghan government’s proposal for Scottish and Welsh devolution was obstructed by the Labour MP George Cunningham who introduced an amendment to the effect that devolution had to be supported by a majority that represented at least 40 percent of the eligible voters. This meant that devolution in Scotland was rejected although a majority of those voting voted yes in the referendum in 1979.

    289. Hatuey says:

      We know where the defacto referendum leads, don’t we… and another mandate for a referendum, another few years at the trough.

      I heard Hosie on Radio Scotland more or less spelling it out, although careful to avoid using the M word.

      Right now they’ll all be on WhatsApp debating the best way to string the independence movement along, the best way to pretend they care, the best way to fool the mugs again…

      When you hear them responding to the question of what success in the defacto referendum would lead to, listen very carefully to the answers they give… that’s where they’re going to rip us all off.

      And that’s the acid test for those still willing to give the SNP the benefit of the doubt. Go ask;

      What would winning the defacto referendum amount to, then?

      A mandate for a referendum.

      Zzzzzzzzzzzz…

    290. Andy Ellis says:

      @Jamie 7.40 pm

      The Scottish Greens have already said they plan to field a full slate of candidates for any referendum. Thus the only way gaining a plebiscitary election majority works is adding together ALL of the votes for the parties signed up to the concept of plebiscitary elections.

      If that’s the basis it doesn’t matter if some parties have a full platform and others only one policy (independence), because it’s only the total number of votes that matters.

      The movement must resist any attempt by the SNP to get “proprietorial” about which votes count and which don’t, particularly given their hostility to Alba.

      There isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of me ever voting for the SNP, and I suspect that goes for a lot of other pro-independence folk these days.

    291. Robert Louis says:

      Lesley Riddoch needs thanked for pushing for and helping to arrange and run these demos tonight. I was at the on in Edinburgh, and judging by crowd reactions to speeches, people seem really, really angry. It also felt like the biggest support was for a convention of the estates, to pull all pro indy folk and civic society in Scotland together. That is what people want.

      This CANNOT be just the SNP. They MUST start building bridges and get working with ALL pro indy groups, and that includes ALBA.

      It was a joy to see so many at Edinburgh tonight. I am angry, Scotland is angry, and rightly so. How dare England presume to treat us as their little colony. How Dare the unelected First Minister of England, Rish Sunak, presume, without ANY democratic mandate whatsoever, to steal our oil and asset wealth.

      Get angry. Stay angry. My message to the likes of unelected English dictator Sunak is simply this, want to take on Scotland?? Come and have a go if you think you are hard enough.

    292. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 8:30pm
      I will never vote SNP even as an ex member so I think your assertion of a lack of cooperation amongst Independence supporters is correct. I can’t campaign alongside the current NSNP. Sturgeon saying a wider platform for Independence is needed now is so ironic since she singlehandedly destroyed the Independence movement. Hoist by her own petard. She needs to go without further a do.

    293. Rab Davis says:

      Of all the deep thinkers that are out there in Scotland,,, surely there is one who can lead us to the Promised Land.

      Sturgeon just can’t beat us, not a wee Woke weirdo fea Dreghorn.

    294. Ali says:

      what one wishes would have happened is not exactly the best form of premise for an argument. After Brexit we would probably not have left the UK and it would have been a done deal for all our lives. Are we afraid desire for indy will go down? In that case why would we vote yes. Otherwise the course of history is that it will happen, one way or another

    295. Republicofscotland says:

      It’s not even a level playing field dished out by our hostage taker nation England, with Northern Ireland allowed a reunification referendum every seven years, but our jailers spout nonsense of a once in a generation indy vote for Scotland when there’s no legality attached to that meaningless saying.

      We need to work within our own nation to organise a vote on ditching our captors, a foreign nation shouldn’t have any say as to when we decide to break our bonds of injustice.

      What other country in the world would put up with this none I say. If Sturgeon wasn’t such a treacherous b*stard she’d be on a plane to Brussels right now laying out our position and proposing a route out of it.

      The Sri Lankans stormed their parliament recently and ousted their useless corrupt government, it may come to that in Scotland, I can’t think of any country that’s broken its bonds from Westminster without some sort of struggle, it will be no different for Scotland.

    296. Jamie says:

      @ Andy Ellis 8.30pm

      That’s a good point you make.

      If the SNP do get “proprietorial ” this could be the end of them. The one time the electorate are at least semi interested in politics is election time and if they try to nudge out the Greens they won’t be happy and if they continue their excessive hostilities against Alba they will reinforce the message that I think is slowly getting through that the SNP are more interested in tribal politics than independence.

      In my opinion the SNP are every day becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate from SLAB who used to and still do put tribal politics before cooperation in dealing with the big issues.

      The people eventually seen through SLAB and deserted them electing Alex Salmond.

      Will people eventually see through the SNP? I think so yes. This might just be the turning point, big issue we need to kick Alba on, it will take something like this.

    297. Rab Davis says:

      As every hour passes, your anger and frustration will grow, when the realisation kicks in of what exactly happened today.

      Anger at Sturgeon,,and anger at the arrogance of the English bastards who have their stinkin boot thrust against your throat.

      Don’t get mad,,,get fuckin beelin at these English arseholes, who today downgraded every Scot to the status of a second class citizen.

    298. Ian Stewart says:

      Am I the only one to think this is a positive outcome, It is now crystal clear to No voters, Undecided’s they are in fact Not in an equal and fair Union but inhabitants of a colony of England, Todays ruling has made this perfectly clear,

    299. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Tom 7.07: yes, I saw O’Brien’s response to the “SC” judgment. When did you ever hear a senior SNP figure speak with such passion and articulate indignation?

      https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1595372414397038594?s=20&t=Y4FOw0ADeQphn5FQFoInkA

      Therein lies our oroblem.

    300. Daisy Walker says:

      So, attended the Perth Rally. A good turn out I thought, lots of SNPers who have been hibernating for the last 2 years.

      Not a single peep from them about Nikla’s failings. Not a single murmour. All ire pointing towards SC and Westminster.

      On that basis, I’d say she’s not going anywhere unless she want to.

      In fairness, most (including me) hadn’t had a chance to catch up on the details.

      With regards her formulating plans for a Plebiscite GE sometime next year, most of them will be happy with that.

      However, here’s where it might get interesting (for Perthshire at any rate). Have a look at the proposed boundary changes for Perthshire North and Ochil and South Perthshire.

      If those changes go ahead, it is likely to change 3 yellow areas tory blue and gift Alloa area to Labour? (Don’t know that area well enough or its voting patterns, but possible).

      If this change comes in, the SNP are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY going to need Alba voters, and all those who ‘lent’ them their vote to vote their way and campaign for Indy…. or the map will turn Tory Blue.

      The potential is there, that this could give Alba leverage.

      Incidentally, with regards People’s Assembly’s… by their very nature its unlikely that they need to be set up by the ruling party in order to get international legal recognition. Anyone know the details of what qualifies as a PA, and in this day and age, could it be done online and with Zoom, (even if only initially).

    301. Tinto Chiel says:

      “problem”: sausage fingers.

    302. Lorna Campbell says:

      James Che: there is no way round that Treaty. None. we agreed to it, or our representatives on the day did. That is acquiescence. Therefore, legally, we must challenge it. The only way to do that is to draw up a case based on England as the UK’s deliberate and consistent breaching of the Treaty terms. If we stick to domestic law and devolved powers, we are going nowhere at all. Nowhere. It is not about asking anyone else’s permission: it is about gaining the recognition we will desperately need to borrow on the international market, etc. The Westminster cabal tell us every other day that we are a family of nations, that the Union is a partnership. Well, if it is, we need to show that the contract has been breached. UDI is the only solution to a plebiscitary election. If we win, we go and present our case in parallel. No more going cap in hand to Westminster or its institutions; we force them to challenge us.

    303. Ruby says:

      Is there any reason why we couldn’t go to the UN to ask to be included on the list of non-self governing territories? What harm would it do? They can only say NO. What’s to lose?

      There is no guarantee that the supreme court have got it right vis a vis Scotland’s colonial status.
      There are always loads of different legal opinions.

      I’m just thinking about the two international lawyers who were paid an undisclosed amount of taxpayers money by the UK Government to state that Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became Lesser England.

    304. Ian Stewart says:

      Am I the only one to think this is a positive outcome, It has now been made crystal clear to No voters and undecided’s they are indeed not in a fair and equal Union and never have been. Lets see how the cope with living in a colony of England.

    305. Elmac says:

      George Ferguson @ 8.45

      Totally agree. Not only does Sturgeon need to go now but also must be held accountable for her criminal lies and deceit in public office. The Salmond fiasco was the tipping point when the mask dropped for all who were willing to see. This woman is poison and very probably a 5th columnist. There is no prospect of independence under her or her cabal. Even if she were not lying on her aspiration for independence, which she clearly is, would you honestly want to live in a country run by this little tinpot bauchle.

      Until 2020 I was an SMP member and had been for many years. I cannot see any circumstances in which I could vote ever for them again. The only way forward is Alba but I fear we are a nation of ostriches who are too lazy to lift their eyes out of the sand and see our so called devolved government for what they are.

    306. Republicofscotland says:

      “James Che: there is no way round that Treaty. None. we agreed to it, or our representatives on the day did”

      I thought it was treaty, treaties can be created or dissolved if one party wishes to leave hence the UK leaving the EU. I see no difference from Scotland ditching this treaty.

      The UKSC is using legalese jargon backed up by the Britnat media and cemented by House Jocks to hold us hostage. We need to push back against this, no succumb to it.

    307. Lorna Campbell says:

      Stuart McTavish: given British (English) constitutional law, there could not have been any other finding and ruling. Given the fact that several court cases around this have been totally unsuccessful, it was a waste of time and money. However, the one positive to be drawn from it is that we know where we stand in DOMESTIC constitutional law. The Court’s assumption about international law was based on an interpretation of the ACTS of Union and not the TREATY of Union. The Acts are domestic law and cannot supersede international law under which the Treaty was drawn up. This is not too difficult to argue. No argument was made. Nobody has ever really bothered to question the whole basis of devolution, which itself is ultra vires of the Treaty. We need to understand the difference between domestic law and international law, and the Acts did not create the Union, the Treaty did – and it was witnessed by international ambassadors at the court of Queen Anne, something that is never, ever done for domestic law. We really need to get our heads out of our nether regions and start examining that Treaty in great depth because it is the Treaty that we need to get our heads round. There is simply no way in domestic law that we can overcome the ruling of the SC of the UK, and that suits Westminster down to the ground. The Acts are domestic law. The Treaty is international law. Don’t let them fool you otherwise. The SC of the UK has no jurisdiction in international law in this matter.

    308. Dan says:

      @ Skip_Nc

      My raising of the matter was to discuss it rather than it being a yay or nay either way on whether they would.
      Indyref or De Facto Indyref something would be made of it though.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/attack-of-the-giant-squirrels/

      IIRC in the text of the proposed Referendums (Scotland) Bill it stated it was preferable to use existing Council / Local Authority electoral processes for voting in a referendum, but the wording appeared to leave other options available.

      TBH this not having control of Councils is just another failing of the SNP and Scottish electorate to get all the bases covered to move towards and implement Scotland returning to self-governing status.
      All they had to do was competently administer the various powers they had at different levels to show voters and instill confidence that they had the credentials to govern more proficiently than Westminster.

      I’ve been quiet oh here for the last week as been out draining the flooded roads around my area to make them safe, and stop them disintegrating further with the hydraulic action of heavy vehicles breaking up surface.
      This is all due to totally choked drains and gullies because there is clearly no maintenance getting done. They’ve been like this for a couple of months now, and the Council weren’t going to do anything about it and I just couldn’t leave it for more cars to get get damaged or involved in an accident on these dark wet nights.
      So yet more hours of hard graft getting soaked. 4 Council 4×4 pickups drove past me whilst I was working, non stopped, they just do not give a fuck.
      I’ve previously put in 9 hours of hard dirty graft clearing the totally overgrown pavement so the bairns can use the pavement to get to school safely.
      I know the Councillors didn’t respond to locals inquiring to rectify the issue. The SNP ignored the email enquiry, and the Conservative somehow tried to float the notion that the tarred and kerbed pavements along the roadside may have been private and not the Councils responsibility. (They aren’t private…)
      Someone posted a Council was going to tackle Islamophobia and Antisemitism, is that not a bit above their pay grade, and any instances of such activities should be reported and dealt with by the Police, freeing up the Councillors’ time to sort the roads, pavements and bins… Ach, but no doubt in these austere times spaffing cash on crimbo lights is more important than maintaining basic services.

    309. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      To me, it’s simple. At any plebiscitary GE, whether Westminster or Holyrood, votes for a pro-indy party count towards the total pro-indy vote.

      As others have commented above, if the SNP come out with “The SNP need 50%+1 in this election to declare independence” guff, then they would be discarding all the pro-indy votes for the likes of the Greens, Alba, ISP and so on.

      As I’ve typed btl before, in Dundee West, I could see Chris Law winning for the SNP but with a reduced majority, most of the “lost” votes having gone to Alba.

      Why should Alba’s pro-indy votes be ignored? If the SNP go down this route, they will not be forgiven by Yessers.

      In other news, Kenny MacAskill would make a good figurehead for the Yes movement.

    310. Big G says:

      Ian Stewart says: Am I the only one to think this is a positive outcome, It has now been made crystal clear to No voters and undecided’s they are indeed not in a fair and equal Union and never have been. Lets see how the cope with living in a colony of England.

      What unionists have ever given you the impression that living in a colony was not their preferred mode of existence?

      I think they’ll cope just fine – it is their fantasy.

      You don’t get to be the only country on the planet to vote against independence from the English without being packed full of “the most servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilisation”.

    311. John WALSH says:

      When reality meets gaming the system . Mr and Mrs Murrell ain’t giving up £600k pa easily.
      When you employ woohoo Uni lightweight sycophants rather than proper strategists, just because you don’t like their opinion . We are fuc*ed for more than a generation.
      Ms Sturgeon needs to call out the cuckoo colonialist LIST MSP’s and start referring to WM as the English Parliament.? Because that’s what it is now .
      But she won’t, and the once mighty Independence movement will fizzle away. To leave many angry SEPARATISTS until 2030? RIP Independence.

    312. Tony O'neill says:

      Things that the Scots have learned from today’s judgment.
      1)We have never ever been in a voluntary union of equals.
      2)We are a colony in all but name.

      3)Sturgeon is either totally incompetent, and shouldn’t be first minister 1 second longer. Or she has deliberately done her best since 2014 to destroy any chance of our god given rights to liberty.
      Apply cold logic, and the evidence of your eyes and ears from the last eight years, and make up your own mind. Incompetent or ("Tractor" - Ed), imo she’s both.

      4) Yes Scotland should change it’s name to liberation Scotland.

      5) We WILL

    313. Shug says:

      Poor blackford on “the take” repeating the nonsense of 50 percent of the voters in a UK election.

      The only way such a plebiscite works is if you call one for holyrood.

      If they keep this nonsense up then Westminster is controlling the SNP policy

    314. Colony,
      a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

    315. Tony O'neill says:

      5)WE (Will) have to fight for our liberation, or our Scotland will be no more.

    316. Andy Ellis says:

      The only way such a plebiscite works is if you call one for holyrood.

      That’s just assertion on your part. There’s no reason it should be any different. Holyrood would certainly be better in terms of the electorate and by dint of the fact it’s “our” parliament, but there’s no reason a majority at Westminster wouldn’t deliver the same result.

    317. Big Jock says:

      We have to treat this as if devolution didn’t exist.

      Devolution is a tool of the Union and nothing more. If a non devolved Scotland wanted independence,it would use any UK election to obtain this.

      We are essentially back to 1998 before devolution. We proceed from there and bypass devolution.

      It’s how most countries have won their freedom.

    318. George Ferguson says:

      @Elmac 9:09pm
      I don’t even know if Alba are intending to stand a candidate in my GE constituency. But I definitely will not vote SNP or Green. Which leaves me politically homeless. I said earlier that the middle aged lady SNP canvasser who turned up on my doorstep on Saturday morning had my sympathy as she was flogging a dead horse. I have bought my wife a Suffragette scarf for Christmas. And that is where we are at with the NSNP. We can’t vote for them.

    319. Skip_NC says:

      Dan, I see a difference between an plebiscite election and a referendum. You’re right; councils could refuse to run a referendum if council resources must be used to run it. I’d be surprised if they have such discretion with an election.

      Getting control of councils under STV must be hard, even for the best-run administrations. Obviously, it can be done, but just tougher than under FPTP and D’Hondt.

      Do I understand that you have been volunteering your time to make roads and pavements safe? Isn’t that a council’s job (he asked rhetorically)? Wow. Not something that would ever happen with “community leaders” here. As the state capital, we are much more comfortable holding meetings and looking down on the rural communities than actually getting out and doing stuff for the benefit of all.

    320. Jamie says:

      George Ferguson

      If Alba are not standing a candidate for your constituency, join Alba and you stand!!!

      I might have to do the same (stand as a candidate) as I’ve still never had the opportunity to vote Alba either as no one stood.

      I really hope someone else will stand but I guess this is the sort of thing that maybe we all need to be considering. The more folk that join Alba and put themselves forward to stand the better quality candidates we will end up with but ultimately anyone standing is better than no-one I think.

    321. Mr Blue Sky says:

      “Scotland is not a partner in the UK, but a prisoner.” Emotive claptrap.

      Whilst I enjoy reading your site, and it’s mainly balanced views, this article is pure nonsense and propaganda. You were given a referendum in 2014, the majority voted to stay. I don’t ever recall the inmates of a prison being given such a referendum.

      The SNP claim to have a majority mandate, which even you admit is a lie. The Supreme Court challenge was always doomed to fail, and Sturgeon knew this.

      The SNP do not seek independence, as they have proven time and again. They just want a stick to beat Westminster with, and a distraction from their failed governance, hence they are calling for thenext GE to be a referendum plebiscite.

      You are all being fooled.

    322. Jamie says:

      @ Dan

      I’m sorry to hear about the flooding that’s awful.

      I would recommend contacting all of your councillors in your ward until one wants to get involved.

      Also if they keep pushing the private land pontius pilate routine you can make a freedom of information request to see the maps detailing Council land in your area.

      I know it’s different from Edinburgh my council but do they not have a team that deal with issues such as gully cleaning?

      I do very occasionally see them cleaning the gullies once a year in Edinburgh with a big metal pole but I know in rural areas the councils have even less funds but they surely have at least one person doing it, as it is a essential task.

      Hopefully they get the finger out for you.

    323. FionaN says:

      OT Trying to access one of AS speeches on the Alba party website, on what we all do next following the foreign court’s verdict, but my access to the link is being blocked as ‘unsafe, people are trying to steal your credit card details’ type crap. There is no option to proceed regardless. I guess there will be a lot of this information-blocking going on now. I wonder if it is WM or scotgov blocking AS’ speeches.

    324. George Ferguson says:

      @Jamie 9:52pm
      I am not sure Alba would want me. On balance I would favour Nato membership but not by much, but enough. I favour a half way house on the EU, single market access or a derivative thereof but not full membership. I marginally favour retention of King Charles III as Head of State because I don’t want El Presidente Nicola. By the way I think I am mainstream Scottish opinion. Lot’s of doorstep feedback in the bag.

    325. Sean says:

      I signed up earlier this week in chucking you a fiver every month to re-establish wings articles.

      I have one request.

      Burn Sturgeon and her gender ideologues to the ground.

      Any attempt at legitimate aspirations for self determination would be doomed to failure.

      Expose them using their own excrement.

    326. Astonished says:

      George Ferguson @ 9.52pm – I’m in ALBA so they can’t be that choosy.

      And you get a vote that isn’t pogled. So, if your opinion is that mainstream you could become the leader. We are definitely a very broad church, and all the better for it.

      All you need is a determination to achieve independence.

      So, there is nothing stopping you joining. Sturgeon would hate it so a tiny bit of revenge. And we need the members.

    327. Viscount Ennui says:

      It is that time of year again:

      NS: The GE will be a referendum on Scottish independence.
      WM: Oh, no it won’t.
      NS: Oh yes it will.

      Ad infinitum for the foreseaable future.

      Just suppose that pro-indy parties manage, let’s say, 53% of the popular vote. What happens next?

      A hung Parliament appears to be the most desirable outcome.

    328. Maxxmacc says:

      Knew NS 35 years ago in Yoof Politics. Never heard her use the ‘I’ word once.

    329. Breeks says:

      Mr Blue Sky says:
      23 November, 2022 at 10:03 pm

      “…. You peasants were given a referendum in 2014”.

      Fixed your typo for you Mr BS.

    330. George Ferguson says:

      @Astonished 10:37pm
      Alex Salmond is the leader of Alba. A very competent leader. Before Sturgeons stitch up he was regarded as one of the most competent of European politicians. On the 2014 Independence campaign nobody questioned the competence of the Scot Gov. They do all the time now. A backdrop that will mean a failed IndyRef2 campaign. But I may join Alba. I am thinking about it.

    331. Republicofscotland says:

      Ultra House Jock Kirsty Wark on Newsnight taking great pleasure from a one Professor Tierney of Edinburgh University when he said that there’s no way for Scotland out of its hostage situation due to the UKSC closing off all avenues domestic and international.

    332. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I tell yi, once all Scots see the names involved in the Salmond stitch-up, eyes will be opened and the FM will be toast.

    333. Viscount Ennui says:

      George Ferguson says:
      23 November, 2022 at 10:51 pm

      On the 2014 Independence campaign nobody questioned the competence of the Scot Gov. They do all the time now.

      George. You have nailed it.

    334. Rab Davis says:

      So all those mandates Sturgeon ask for at every election weren’t worth the paper they were written on.

      That answers Rev Stu’s question about why Sturgeon didn’t go to the supreme court in 2016,,,it would have meant she couldn’t sell the SNP lie that a vote for them was a vote for Scottish independence.

      And it also means that from now on in, she can’t come away with that bullshit ever again.

    335. Jamie says:

      @ FionaN

      Try clearing your cookies that usually solves issues like that.

      I’m guessing you mean this speech –

      https://www.albaparty.org/put_scotlands_future_back_in_scotlands_hands

      Ultimately what Alex Salmond wants folk to do is join Alba. That’s the first step. The second step is to attend meetings and be a part of the push for change.

      http://www.albaparty.org/join

      If your computer won’t let you access the site try on your mobile or local library.

      I can confirm the website is working fine on my mobile.

    336. Derek says:

      Dan says:

      “I’ve been quiet oh here for the last week as been out draining the flooded roads around my area to make them safe, and stop them disintegrating further with the hydraulic action of heavy vehicles breaking up surface.
      This is all due to totally choked drains and gullies because there is clearly no maintenance getting done. They’ve been like this for a couple of months now, and the Council weren’t going to do anything about it and I just couldn’t leave it for more cars to get get damaged or involved in an accident on these dark wet nights.
      So yet more hours of hard graft getting soaked. 4 Council 4×4 pickups drove past me whilst I was working, non stopped, they just do not give a fuck.
      I’ve previously put in 9 hours of hard dirty graft clearing the totally overgrown pavement so the bairns can use the pavement to get to school safely.
      I know the Councillors didn’t respond to locals inquiring to rectify the issue. The SNP ignored the email enquiry, and the Conservative somehow tried to float the notion that the tarred and kerbed pavements along the roadside may have been private and not the Councils responsibility.

      Ach, but no doubt in these austere times spaffing cash on crimbo lights is more important than maintaining basic services.”

      I agree. I had lent my van to pals for a house move; picked it up tonight. Whilst at the bus stop to go get it I noticed that the large branch that had come down last weekend was still there and mostly blocking the pavement, so I stopped on the way back and chopped it up (there’s a saw that lives in the van) so I now have a bunch of firewood and kindling.

      All I need now is a woodburner…!

    337. stuart mctavish says:

      @Lorna

      re there could not have been any other finding and ruling:

      In my defence, the written judgement begins:

      “Does the Scottish Parliament have power to legislate for the holding of a referendum on Scottish independence?”

      and ends with the two irrelevant conclusions I copied above.

      ie Lord Reed himself came to a different conclusion to the one reported 🙂

    338. Jamie says:

      @ George Ferguson

      Alba is a broad church. I have very varied views too but the ultimate aim of Alba the number one priority we all agree on before anything else is independence.

      My personal motto is independence then, independence now, independence forever.

      I think you will be very much welcomed in Alba and you should definitely share your views in the local meeting.

      Alba encourages debate on all issues and does not shut down debate on any topic.

    339. Jamie says:

      @Republic of Scotland

      They would say that. It has become clear to me that project fear has been replaced with project hate Scotland.

      They are subtly undermining Scotland, encouraging Scots to hate ourselves and our country implying we voted No (a majority of Scots voted yes they needed the non Scots vote to win).

      I was so upset and disheartened after 2014. I could not believe that Scotland voted No. I realise now though on closer inspection of all the evidence that all is not as it seems.

      There is lots to be positive about.

      A majority of Scots voted Yes and we should be proud of our brothers and sisters for voting yes in the face of massive hostility e.g project fear.

      We went from 30% of the vote to 45% a massive swing and at one point we were ahead leading to the last ditch vow and bus of Westminster MP’s Stormtrooping up to Scotland to rouse their Yoon base.

      Wings over Scotland is back in business

      Alba is promoting and advancing the case for independence suggesting EFTA for example as an easy way back into Europe hassle free.

      The defacto referendum is now only 2 years away. The general election is now a referendum.

      Now Is The Time.

    340. George Ferguson says:

      @Jamie 11:08pm
      Message received and understood. It’s been a big day. I will sleep on it. Incubation of thought and all that.

    341. Big Jock says:

      Jamie. Add to that the gerrymandering of postal votes in 2014. Yes didn’t fall from 52% to 45% in two weeks. There was clearly something sinister with the count.

      M15 would be there to make sure the Union prevailed.

    342. 100%Yes says:

      We are all angry. But my anger isn’t at Westminster or the Supreme court there doing what they are supposed to do deny Scotland any rights or freedoms. My anger is at the ("Tractor" - Ed) who calls herself a Independence supporter since she was 16, Aye 16seconds and every other year, hour and minute she’s been a full blown unionist at that.

    343. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Big Jock says: at 11:33 pm

      “Jamie. Add to that the gerrymandering of postal votes in 2014. Yes didn’t fall from 52% to 45% in two weeks. There was clearly something sinister with the count.

      M15 would be there to make sure the Union prevailed.”
      ——————
      Which is one of the reasons why I am vehemently against an IndyII referendum.

      WM/MI5, 6 and 7 would do anything legal or illegal to make sure we would never ever win. They can not under any circumstances allow us to leave as that would be Armageddon for England and their standing on the world stage.

    344. James Che says:

      Lets look at the facts from the supreme court.

      From the English Westminster parliament came the creation of created the supreme court over Britain?
      The supreme court then ruled that the SNP employed in the English legislated Colonial Scottish parliament could not hold a referendum without Westminsters English parliament permission.

      This is as it should be.
      1: The Westminster parliament is English and under english laws and legislation.

      2: The devolved parliament placed in Scotland is also english and under english laws and legislation.

      3: The supreme court was given authorisation to be a supreme court of britain, by the British Westminster parliament legislation and statues.

      So the English devolved parliament in Scotland would be challenging the english Westminster parliament and the english Supreme Court.
      Of course it has no right to break away from its bosses whom gave it its very existence.
      End of.

      1: The Scots are still sovereign,

      2: The Scots were not asked to join the Treaty of union in 1707.

      3: The 1707 treaty of parliamentary union between Scotland and Englands parliament did not proceed.

      4: The Scottish parliament ceased to exist in the treaty in England by being extinguished and in England Westminster parliament eyes ~ by AGREEing to the treaty of parliamentary union, not by entering or acting in the new British parliament at all.

      5: A ceased 1707 Scottish parliament can not partake in the following British parliament

      6: So the Scottish parliament never joined in parliament union with the English parliament.

      7: End of Treaty of union with the 1707 Scottish parliament and the 1706 parliament of England.

    345. msdidi says:

      George Ferguson
      I too will not be voting SNP again. I left when the stitch up of Alex Salmond began and joined ALBA as a founder member in April 2020. Alba proposes we join EFTA (see Wee Alba Book … if you don’t have a copy yet you can download it here http://www.albaparty.org/wee-alba-book ) When you visit the site you can read about ALBA policy on Defence and Security, Womens Rights, Equalities and much much more. I hope you feel you can become a member. Why not pay for a membership for your wife too to go with her Suffragette scarf? #AlbaWomenRising http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK-OW6-6a9Q Join salvo.scot too…it’s free.

    346. Flower of Scotland says:

      Watched a livestream by Independence Live from Holyrood tonight. Their moderator hashbury stumble was telling anyone who criticised Sturgeon in the comments to cut it out. No one is allowed to rock Sturgeon,s boat, it seems. No more money for INDYLIVE from me!

    347. James Che says:

      After three hundred years of having NO active Scottish parliament in Scotland.
      After three hundred years of having NO active Scottish parliament in the British parliament.
      After three hundred years of having no Scottish representatives in Britain.
      After three hundred years of no Scottish parliamentary union with the Westminster parliament.

      Where does Scotland Stand?

      A Country in its own right?
      A nation of people in their own right?
      A Country Entitled to create its own government?
      A Country Entitled to ignore Westminster laws.
      A Scottish Country, a Scottish parliament and a Scottish kingdom that ceased to proceed into the parliament union with england of 1707.

      Once we except the honesty of historic records for Scotlands true position outside the treaty of the union, including statements from UK parliament,
      telling us that Scotland’s 1707 parliament was extinguished in England by ageeing to the treaty of the union,

      And the statements from UK parliament admitting it never asked the nation of Scotland people in 1707 to join a treaty with the Country and people of England.

      The Westminster parliaments imagination that it joined in a treaty with a extinguished parliament of Scotland is more accurate in reality.
      It broke its own side of treaty it had created by extinguishing the the Scottish parliament from entering as a active parliament into the British parliament 1707.

      Westminster breeched its own promises and articles before Scotlands parliament could continue to conclude the necessary steps to completing the treaty of parliamentary unions.

    348. Kcor says:

      So Scotland is not a colony and not eligible for self determination.

      The myth of the Scots being “sovereign” has been busted.

      There is not one thing the “sovereign” plebs of Scotland can do, except vote in an election or referendum if and when their masters offer one.

      The right to vote was not even given to them by those who declared them to be “sovereign”, but by the parliament in London.

      It is not in the interests of the SNP masters sitting in the London and Edinburgh parliaments to give the plebs any vote which could harm their own interests.

      Lesson for the “sovereign” Scots:

      To become independent, accept the fact that the plebs of Scotland are not “sovereign” but a colonised people who need a Ghandi style non violent campaign to become independent.

    349. Effijy says:

      View in browser

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Peoples Action Backers,
      I write to you tonight after the Supreme Court’s decision in the repeat case brought by the Scottish Government. While not the result we all wanted, it has made two things crystal clear. The first is that this should have been settled with the people’s action so that the people of Scotland would not have to endure the past 2 years of Tory rule. Secondly, the question of whether this is a union of equals has also been answered: It isn’t!
      For a union to be equal, both parties must have the right to freely enter into it, and the right to freely end it if they so choose (Like the UK with the EU). One party requiring the consent of the other which has a vested interest in the status quo is NOT a democracy, it’s a dictatorship.
      It is now clear that the UK system has no means by which to exercise our right to self-determination and to vote on the constitutional question. We must now marshal as a movement, put aside all differences and engage in widespread civil disobedience.
      Today I wrote to the First Minister challenging her choice to wait for a UK General Election to put the question to the people of Scotland, not only would it mean another year of Tory rule from Westminster, but it would also mean that 16’s and 17-year-olds would be unable to vote on their own future.
      I have instead proposed, a unity arrangement and a Scottish Election using the constituency ballot as a measure to poll the Scottish Population on independence.
      A copy of my letter to the FM can be found on Twitter, here: https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1595457141300727808
      In the meantime, I am reaching out to ask you to sign and share the petition to the SNP and Scottish Government calling for them to implement a Scottish Parliament solution to the question of our future, not one dictated, limited, and controlled by Westminster. I would appreciate it if you could sign and share: Hi,

      Scottish Election: De-facto Referendum Petition: https://secure.avaaz.org/community_petitions/en/scottish_government_scottish_election_de_facto_referendum/?thdmJgb

      And so we fight on!
      Sincerely

      Yours for Scotland
      Martin
      Dear Peoples Action Backers,
      I write to you tonight after the Supreme Court’s decision in the repeat case brought by the Scottish Government. While not the result we all wanted, it has made two things crystal clear. The first is that this should have been settled with the people’s action so that the people of Scotland would not have to endure the past 2 years of Tory rule. Secondly, the question of whether this is a union of equals has also been answered: It isn’t!
      For a union to be equal, both parties must have the right to freely enter into it, and the right to freely end it if they so choose (Like the UK with the EU). One party requiring the consent of the other which has a vested interest in the status quo is NOT a democracy, it’s a dictatorship.
      It is now clear that the UK system has no means by which to exercise our right to self-determination and to vote on the constitutional question. We must now marshal as a movement, put aside all differences and engage in widespread civil disobedience.
      Today I wrote to the First Minister challenging her choice to wait for a UK General Election to put the question to the people of Scotland, not only would it mean another year of Tory rule from Westminster, but it would also mean that 16’s and 17-year-olds would be unable to vote on their own future.
      I have instead proposed, a unity arrangement and a Scottish Election using the constituency ballot as a measure to poll the Scottish Population on independence.
      A copy of my letter to the FM can be found on Twitter, here: https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1595457141300727808
      In the meantime, I am reaching out to ask you to sign and share the petition to the SNP and Scottish Government calling for them to implement a Scottish Parliament solution to the question of our future, not one dictated, limited, and controlled by Westminster. I would appreciate it if you could sign and share: Hi,

      Scottish Election: De-facto Referendum Petition: https://secure.avaaz.org/community_petitions/en/scottish_government_scottish_election_de_facto_referendum/?thdmJgb

      And so we fight on!
      Sincerely

      Yours for Scotland
      Martin

      Share on Facebook

      Go to the case page!

    350. Joe says:

      Oneliner says:23 November, 2022 at 4:31 pm

      “Vote SNP 1 & 2 – that was a cracker eh?”
      and they will use that one again or may be modified
      to Vote SNP 1 and ScotGreens 2 because the SNP and Scotgreens
      whole plan will be to cement themselves into Holyrood and keep Alba out.

    351. I believe that if a lot more Scots understood the shenanigans behind the union of parliaments back in 1707 and an appreciated the backhanders to the privileged few, they would then vote comprehensively in favour of our deserved independence.
      Rather more so after yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling, what?!

    352. Robert Louis says:

      My goodness, this has backfired on the English courts and government. Last night I chatted to some folk, and you could almost taste the fury and anger.

      And I guess that is the point, for too long Scots have been way too nice and far too accomodating to these lying barstewards from England who presume to rule our country and steal our wealth, all the while openly sneering at our culture, traditions and history. We should humour them no more. It simply cannot be business as usual after this.

      Aside from political moves and getting a convention of the estates running and using a Scottish parliamentary election as a vote on indy, there are simple things all of us can do.

      When their is some britnat nonsense, like the English kings coronation next year, and the likes of the BBC ask for input, bombard them with demands for Scottish democracy, and an end to English colonial rule. Shops with union jacks in their window displays need boycotted. If it has a jack, put it back, always. Only by doing that will we stop the creeping union jackery on everything. The message needs to be very clear, that flag is the flag of our oppressors, the butchers apron. Our music scene, artists and others need to reflect Scottish anger. Where are the angry Scottish artists? Where are the angry Scottish bands? We need to assert our culture and nationality at every turn. We are not ‘British’, we are Scottish. If you do not have a saltire sticker on your car, get one. Likewise with number plates.

      All these little things when done en masse change perceptions. Look at Wales, look at how they just demand we call them Cymru. They respect their own culture and language, in a way far too many Scots do not. The people of Wales just do it. Time for Scots to do likewise.

      We must stand up for our country Scotland, against these unelected English Tory thugs, who act by diktat over Scotland. We must make it clear at every turn that Scotland is no longer a democracy, under an English jackboot and Scotland is a prisoner of English bullies, criminals and thugs.

      To hell with the union jack, and all it stands for. A cursed flag of another country. We should have none of it.

      SNP supporters, green supporters, ALBA supporters, ISP and SSP supporters, ALL need to demand that a convention of the estates is convened ASAP, and as a matter of some urgency. This cannot wait until ‘sometime early next year’ as Sturgeon put it. No, this demands immediate action. And it must be a Scotish election that is used as an indy vote, to ensure 16 year olds and others can vote, and to ensure the lying bullies in London can have as little say as possible.

      This needs action, NOW, today. No more pleasantries, no more playing along with the Westminster niceties. This is not about the SNP, ALBA or any other parties, or just the Scottish government, this is about Scotland, and our political leaders of every hue need to get their brains around that and in gear, NOW, today.

      More than all that the indy movement overall, needs a strong leader, and it simply is NOT Nicola Sturgeon.

    353. Robert Louis says:

      Brian boonthetoon at 1057pm,

      Yip.

    354. Astonished says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      23 November, 2022 at 10:57 pm
      I tell yi, once all Scots see the names involved in the Salmond stitch-up, eyes will be opened and the FM will be toast.

      Amen to that. But I also want them all jailed.

    355. Rab Davis says:

      Robert Louis 6.50am

      Aye, the smug, arrogant bastards of England think yesterday was just another day at the office,,,and that we should all just carry on as if nothing much happened.

      In the eyes of these detested bastards, Scotland is nothing more than a jumped up parish council, who would never survive a day without their funding.

      We need to show these English bastards that we are not going to accept their colonial rule any longer.

      Fuck England,,,fuck their Union Jack.

      And as far as Sturgeon is concerned,,,she sold the jerseys long ago.

      She should never have been given the responsibility of leading the Scottish Independence fight.

      She is way out of her depth and her heart has never been in it.

      We all went along with the assumption that,,,if Alex Salmond recommended her, then she must be the real deal.

      How wrong we all were.

    356. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/LWORD

      SNP gender reforms ‘dangerous for women’, UN official warns

      This woman makes some very serious and important points but Sturgeon won’t listen.

      In another critical passage, Alsalem echoed the concerns of some policy analysts who believe the quality of data collected in the census has been degraded by the SNP’s obsession with gender rather sex-based definitions.

      What has happened with the census?

      Will we be building loads of maternity hospitals for transwomen and schools for their children?

      What a mess!

    357. Viscount Ennui says:

      The indy movement needs a re-set. A complete re-brand, change in leadership, and the development of a credible strategy.
      Read Lesley Riddoch’s Twitter thread and the figures from events last night are incredibly depressing. The passion has gone but so has the pride.
      The narrow focus on a hatred of WM (as justifiable as that may be) has not worked and unless there is a change in tactics, we are doomed to eternal inertia.
      Critical for the movement is the need to capture the centre-ground and persuade those hesitant to commit to a YES vote that it is in the best interests of the country.
      That is a bloody difficult thing to do when the current Scottish Government is so corrupt and incompetent, and when despite having had the opportunity to do so, it has failed to develop any form of economic or political strategy. Read their latest ‘promises’ and the response is “aye right”.
      Stu is correct. The top echelon of a failed organisation must now go and make way for those who have the intelligence, integrity, and the passion to deliver independence. The days of the career politician should be over.
      Time for AS to return.

    358. stuart mctavish says:

      Robert Louis & Brian Doonthetoon

      Special defence of consent and the speculation as to what ought to have been but for the fucking around in 2014 might suggest otherwise.

      It was a more innocent era though and bigger issue now, regardless of collusion to misinterpret the supreme court finding, is to acknowledge that 30 pro independence seats in a UK general election is inevitable ergo Scotland, as of yesterday, is a defacto independent country.

      Accordingly it needs to stop fucking around this time around* and start acting like one.

      *ie set aside petty concerns on behalf of third parties and find a process to better handle its more serious ones – such as ladymen, covidbollocks and even the historic grievances that somehow justify inviting English radicals (for yes) to come and detest the 55% of the electorate that, on basis of 2014 result, might (must?) still be tory

    359. Ruby says:

      Rab Davis says:
      23 November, 2022 at 11:03 pm

      So all those mandates Sturgeon ask for at every election weren’t worth the paper they were written on.

      That answers Rev Stu’s question about why Sturgeon didn’t go to the supreme court in 2016,,,it would have meant she couldn’t sell the SNP lie that a vote for them was a vote for Scottish independence.

      And it also means that from now on in, she can’t come away with that bullshit ever again.

      That is spot on Rab. How did she get away with it for eight years? Surely the Scottish electorate must have been aware that she required Westminster’s permission.

      I knew way back in 2011 and was reminded of the fact when Theresa said now is not the time and then Boris said ‘once in a generation’ and all that shit.

      It’s quite worrying to live in a country where people are so easily conned. Next big con is her ‘magic referendum’ General election will transition into IndyRef2.
      Hoorah for oor Nicola! I wonder if she can turn water into wine!

    360. Ruby says:

      Big problem for Lesley Riddoch & the independence movement is that a lot of people hate Sturgeon & the SNP so will not be turning up to any protest/meeting involving Sturgeon & the SNP.

    361. Dorothy Devine says:

      BDTT, I wish that would happen and with some speed.

      Robert Louis, I try very hard not to buy goods with a Brutish flag but it is extremely difficult in supermarkets. I would prefer a dragon or St George’s cross or leprechaun to that flag.
      I aim for Saltires as often as is possible but I note that some Scottish goods are made pricier than the long travelled variety and in this climate that is going to make it harder for many.

    362. Breeks says:

      Effijy says:
      24 November, 2022 at 4:47 am
      View in browser

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Peoples Action Backers…..

      I don’t want to discourage Martin Keatings, I think he’s a good guy, but he’s just not aiming at the right targets.

      He’s trying to turn white sovereignty into red sovereignty, which I applaud in principle, but unfortunately I believe that ship has already sailed, and indeed, was always a forlorn initiative from the instant Scotland became cursed with such a constitutionally inept First Minister as Sturgeon.

      Holyrood was there to be won for Scotland, the die was not cast, with Scotland’s MSP’s standing in resolute defence of the red sovereignty of Claim of Right and rebuffing Westminster’s colonial encroachment, Holyrood could have been bastion of defence for Scotland’s interests. Instead, they did the very opposite, and crumpled like fucking invertebrates as they kissed the hand of Westminster’s white parliamentary sovereignty.

      A loathsome and grossly unconstitutional precedent was set, and from that moment, I believe Holyrood was lost to Scotland, and allowed to become the Trojan Horse facilitating Westminster’s colonial subjugation, whereby the alien white sovereignty of Westminster gained a foothold in the Realm of Scotland’s red sovereignty.

      Under Sturgeon’s mismanagement, there is nothing which red sovereignty can get any purchase with. Sturgeon is literally what the Spanish Civil War described as a Fifth Column; an enemy column already installed inside the fortress perimeter which destroys the defences from within. The supposed “champion” who was meant to defend the Claim of Right has been it’s biggest betrayer. That is treason by literal definition.

      Sturgeon is directly responsible for Scotland’s capitulation to the unconstitutional subjugation of Brexit, and her disgusting abdication of the Claim of Right.

      She is a serial failure when it comes to the Claim of Right, and an absolute liability when it comes to resurrecting Scotland’s red sovereignty.

      I genuinely feel that Martin Keatings would be a lot more productive researching the means and instigating impeachment protocols to unseat Sturgeon and be rid of her, and remove Scotland’s single greatest impediment to progress.

      Sturgeon is a narcissist who listens to nobody, and any initiative which requires her to act rationally constructively is both doomed from the outset, but has a tainted objective. Scotland needs her gone.

      Sturgeon needs to be impeached, sacked, and most likely jailed if there’s an honest Court to be found in Scotland. End of discussion. Don’t squander good resource and effort trying to reform the unreformable. We need progress, not more time wasted on forlorn and pointless engagement with a deluded, feckless imbecile like Nicola fucking Sturgeon.

    363. Chas says:

      I went to buy a new car yesterday. Popped along to a car showroom which had literally hundreds of cars sitting inside and out. I was met by a smooth talking salesmen who told me to come back next Tuesday and he would have a car ready for me.

      ‘What make and model will it be?’ I asked-‘Don’t worry’ he said.
      ‘Will it be petrol, diesel or electric?’ I enquired ‘leave it with me’ he said. ‘How much will it cost?’ said I. ‘Don’t know’ he said, ‘but give me £30,000 up front and you can pay something every month thereafter’. ‘For how long will I have to pay every month and how much will it be?’ I asked-‘trust me, everything will be fine’ he said. ‘What colour will it be?’ I enquired. ‘Does it matter’ said the salesman?

      Substitute the car salesman with the SNP and me with the Scottish electorate and you will not be far wrong.

      Would you buy a car under these circumstances?

    364. Dan says:

      Skip_NC says: at 9:46 pm

      Getting control of councils under STV must be hard, even for the best-run administrations. Obviously, it can be done, but just tougher than under FPTP and D’Hondt.

      Well yes, it is hard if only around 50% of the electorate can be bothered to turn out to vote in what is arguably the most influential factor in how their local services and infrastructure is run.
      That was my point about the SNP and pro-indy folk not managing to build or sustain motivation amongst the Indy vote base to actually turn out and vote. But with the NuSNP doing what they do to piss folk off rather than excel in terms of competence of running things, we are where we are.

      @ Jamie at 10:07pm

      Cheers, but I’m fairly well up the curve on how things work in my locale having lived in this area since 1980. 40 odd years of being actively oot and aboot on the land and working with folk that live here develops one’s understanding of the area’s needs.
      Add in a stint on the “Community” Council before it folded due to eh, lack of community and engagement also helped.
      It’s difficult to get a Resilience Plan and Group up and running here when there’s few youngish and fit folk left in the area to commit any time to it though.
      Plus to be honest, from my experience, setting up a group like that just means more folk sitting on their arses wasting time talking about what they could do, rather than actually getting out and cracking on with what needs done.

    365. Breeks says:

      Dan says:
      24 November, 2022 at 9:45 am

      Plus to be honest, from my experience, setting up a group like that just means more folk sitting on their arses wasting time talking about what they could do, rather than actually getting out and cracking on with what needs done.

      You’re lucky they only do nothing Dan. Try some initiative in the Borders and there will be very active sniping and stabs in the back from every direction, and people putting every known barrier they can find in your way.

      Take a tour around Borders and you can see the result.

      Biggest mistake in my life was trying to set up a business in the Borders. Big mistake.

    366. Hatuey says:

      Martin Keatings is the only one I’ve seen calling for civil disobedience. He’s also calling for an immediate response using Holyrood’s voting procedures instead of waiting for a general election. I’m starting to like Keatings a lot.

      One thing Keatings didn’t mention in his letter, which he could have, was the way that the Supreme Court judges used the arguments ScotGov deployed against him to undermine the Lord Advocate at the Supreme Court.

      The decision by Sturgeon to challenge Keatings, therefore, was a disgraceful act of anti-Scottish vandalism that we all paid for twice.

      Right now SNP politicians are sitting in the background hoping all this fizz goes away. They’re probably on WhatsApp, sharing ideas on how to deal with angry Indy supporters and making fun of us. Of course, it’s easier for the SNP MPs in London; they don’t need to face us.

      By Monday or Tuesday everything will be back to normal and they’ll return to cheering for NATO and Gender Reform.

    367. stuart mctavish says:

      Chas @9:23

      re would you buy a car under these circumstances

      Plenty trustworthy types out there that believe fully in what they’re selling, no matter the cost.

      Did your hypothetical salesman ask to be called Elon, Toni or Sir/Madam?

    368. Colin the Keelie says:

      Good morning prisoners.

      Remind the SNP: No early release for good behaviour in this Union jail.

    369. Scott says:

      See when ye go back on Tuesday for your imaginary car, Chas?

      Hit him with the ‘Do you moisturise?’ patter, and he might drop the price down to 17 or 16.

    370. orri says:

      Part of the problem is that pretending it’s solely on principle the SNP have been lured into the idea that independence is solely a matter for Holyrood even going as far as to compromise when standing for Westminster on a vote for the SNP is not a vote for independence.

      It’s basically refusing to fight on more than one front at a time. It allows the constant moving of goalposts by unionists. We have unionist MPs setting an agenda of a majority of SNP MSPs which, as it turns out, means SFA.

      The way forward has to include using their Westminster MPs as leverage. And to do so they must stand on a single platform. Independence. That mandate may be ignored but it will be there.

    371. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      Well I suppose I wouldn’t know jist how many folk are actively working to undermine my efforts behind my back, though funnily enough I am aware of several small-minded idiots in the NuSNP trying it on, because it got fed back to me by folk that trust me more than them!

      Fortunately what I do isn’t business related to earn money for a living, but I donate my time back to the community and land because I am able and want to, along with having an awareness to recognise what needs done.
      But back to possibility of being undermined, my level of voluntary commitment along with the substantial amount of time and effort put in over many many years to accomplish what I have done in and for this area means any detractor is pishing in the wind on that score.

    372. Shug says:

      Has there been political interference in the supreme court.

      I ask because the judge added we have no right to appeal to the UN as we are not a colony and we are not oppressed. Now nobody asked them that. If not aske why provide and answer

    373. Breeks says:

      I’ll tell you no lie Dan, I’ve a profession, I’ve a Trade, I’ve got Uni degrees and City and Guilds Diploma, and a silver NVQ Medal for Excellence for London. I’ve worked all over, scraping a living on skid row, or pulling in £20k turnover a month. I’ve successfully administered the design and paperwork on a £420k housing development, and physically worked on the maintenance of several scheduled National Monuments.

      I’ve worked with Councils from the Highlands to Home Counties, made friends, made enemies, but I like to think I have an informed perspective between a good local Authority and a corrupt one.

      The best and most progressive Council I’ve ever seen was witnessed when I visited an Architect pal in Weston-Super-Mare. He dotted around Bristol / Bath etc too. I can honestly say as a die hard Independentist who’d give it all for Scotland I’d never felt closer to moving to England with knowledge I’d soon accumulate wealth. It was both a tonic and a heartbreak to see what a positive and progressive Local Authority could do when it tried. But I’m a Scot, and Scotland has lost too many of it’s people to such dreams.

      Unfortunately it’s now 20 years later, and all I have to show for it is a yardstick of how far Scotland’s commerce is under achieving and blunted / stifled by endemic corruption, and hampered by sneering petty jobsworths and bitter, ignorant people. Not one of them who seems happy by the way.

      In fairness, I didn’t experience other places suffering a decade of misery after the Credit Crunch, so I’m forced to acknowledge that may have been a factor. But do I see signs of improvement and optimism? Not one.

      Scotland NEEDS Independence like a drowning man needs a lungful of air, – and that’s just to exist. To exist and thrive is the ambition. Sometimes I can hardly bear to read Alf Baird describing Scotland’s societal deconstruction.

      Step forward one Nicola Sturgeon, and I am moved to uncharacteristic hatred and fury. After 30+ years, I know how shite works it’s way to the top in a largely dysfunctional Scotland.

    374. Breeks says:

      Shug says:
      24 November, 2022 at 10:24 am
      Has there been political interference in the supreme court.

      Yes. It was established. That act alone was rudely unconstitutional political interference.

    375. Merganser says:

      Sturgeon revealed her true colours in her latest TV interview.

      It is clear to me that she knows the so called plebiscitary election will not deliver a vote for independence, but she has backed herself into a corner and can’t get out.

      Her words were to the effect that we don’t have independence now, so if we try but fail with the plebiscitary election we won’t be in any worse position.

      She can say she kept her word to have a referendum, and it’s not her fault the people said no. She then moves on to pastures new, and her pals are voted back in for another 5 years to create more mayhem, having escaped scrutiny over all their failures over the past years.

      Has she engineered this position deliberately as some might think, or is it political ineptitude?

      Either way she has played a blinder of a game and will come out on top. What a pity her opponents were Scotland, when they should have been England.

    376. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      Yep, I get all what you say, and your various life experiences have undoubtedly helped broaden your horizons and influencing your outlook, and that comes across in much of what you articulate in your posts.
      IMO this is the problem with having quite so many career politicians who have little if any real life experience to get close to comprehending how society works on various levels, and what is respectively required to help maintain the basics or steer them on a positive course.
      How can it be that even with all the supposed technological “advances” in terms of efficiency and machine capability we appear to be going backwards…

      Did you sort your car? There’s often an extra little fuse / junction box on or near the positive battery terminal which has several preliminary fuses on the supply lines to the main fuseboxe(s).
      Also in this damp climate it is not unusual for earth leads to corrode and degrade leading to high resistances.

    377. Ross says:

      @merganser

      “She can say she kept her word to have a referendum, and it’s not her fault the people said no.”

      Can you explain how that would be inaccurate?

      We either support it or we don’t. Were brought to the dance, we either do it or not. All else is self preening fluff.

      Cheers

    378. Dorothy Devine says:

      Breeks , I too suffer from ‘uncharacteristic hatred’ – when I was young you were allowed to hate tapioca or sago but you got a clip round the ear for saying you hated a person, you could dislike them or dislike their behaviour but you were severely reprimanded for hatred.

      I’m now far too old for a parental clip round the ear and find myself despising so many and hating a few!

    379. Stoker says:

      Jamie says on 23 November 2022 at 11:22 pm

      “A majority of Scots voted Yes…”

      Hi Jamie, do you have any evidence of that? The reason i ask is because i’ve seen that being stated by various folk since 2014IndyRef but every time i ask them for the evidence i get ignored.

      I want to believe this line of thinking, i really do, but i want to see for myself where folk are getting this info. I need to have rock-solid confirmation before i start repeating that line. Will you supply a link to the stats for me please?

      AND NOTE: All smart-arses can keep their opinions to themselves unless they can provide conflicting evidence. I’m trying to get to the bottom of what could turn out to be a very serious and controversial issue. For once, this issue has to be confirmed and elevated or put to bed.

    380. Andy Ellis says:

      @Shug

      I ask because the judge added we have no right to appeal to the UN as we are not a colony and we are not oppressed. Now nobody asked them that. If not aske why provide and answer

      That’s somewhat of a misrepresentation of what was said. The SC – unsurprisingly – quoted what the Canadian SC said in its decision on the Clarity Act relating to Quebec, which is the generally accepted view that the automatic right of self determination applied and still applies only in certain cases, such as to colonies, or in cases of violence or ethnic cleansing.

      It was not generally held to apply in situations like Quebec, Catalonia and Scotland: such “internal self determination” was generally held to be satisfied by the ability of peoples in such cases to exercise their rights via other means short of full independence.

      You will of course find many “unionists” and anti-independence campaigners globally supporting this conventional view: it would be functionally impossible for (say) a US state, a German land, or Scotland, Quebec, Catlaonia, Brittany, Corsica or wherever to “secede” (itself a loaded term) because they are not colonised, not subjected to violence or oppression and capable of exercising their rights by other means including federalism, home rule, protection of minority rights and languages etc.

      That conventional view is now being challenged, but it still remains. Interestingly the Canadian Supreme Court did infer an obligation on both sides to negotiate in good faith, and that absent such good faith the case for Quebec declaring UDI would be strengthened internationally. The Canadian SC pointed out that while international law does not recognise a unilateral right to secession, neither does it prohibit it.

      So, although the specific question may not have been asked, it was begged by the principle at stake in the UK SC decision yesterday. The discussion of the Clarity Act in Canada and Quebec’s right of secession from the Canadian Federation is intimately linked with our current impasse. The ultimate deciding factors will be political not juridical. In its response to the Clarity Act, the PQ government in Quebec adopted its own law Bill 99 (the “Mirror Act”” which stated:

      No other parliament or government may reduce the powers, authority, sovereignty or legitimacy of the National Assembly, or impose constraint on the democratic will of the Quebec people to determine its own future.

      Amen to that.

    381. Stoker says:

      Jamie says on 23 November 2022 at 11:08 pm @ George Ferguson:

      “I think you will be very much welcomed in Alba, and you should definitely share your views in the local meeting. Alba encourages debate on all issues and does not shut down debate on any topic.”

      Unlike the SNP who operate stringent controls over who gets to speak and what they are allowed to say etc. You only need look at how they organise their salutes to the Furer, sorry, i meant to say conferences. Only topics allowed are those arranged by the Furer herself or her sidekick, Captain ‘Creepy’ Murrell.

    382. Stoker says:

      Andy Ellis reproduced this quote:

      “No other parliament or government may reduce the powers, authority, sovereignty or legitimacy of the National Assembly, or impose constraint on the democratic will of the Quebec people to determine its own future.”

      The UKGovs ‘Power Grab’ sprang immediately to mind on reading that.

    383. Geoff Anderson says:

      Stoker

      You must be one of the very few people who did not read the detailed University study showing that the Scots voted for Independence and that the settlers voted 80/20 for the Union. Retired BritNats gave the NO vote and that is why Sturgeon is hiding the census. The Colony back up plan is the Welsh model. If you can’t breed them out, retire them out!

    384. Andy Ellis says:

      @stoker 11.12 am

      It’s a reference to the finding post 2014 referendum that the majority of native born Scots votes Yes (52%) while 72% of those from the rest of the UK voted No, and 57% of those born outside the UK voted No. Those no votes were enough to swing the narrow Yes lead amongst the Scots born to an overall No result.

      The findings were from a large scale Edinburgh University study, but the underlying figures are not available.

      Recent polls have suggested that things may have changed since however. For example in the split between men and women, which at the time of the Edinburgh Uni study had a majority of women voting Yes (56.6%) but a majority of men voting No (53.2%), whereas recent polling suggests that has flipped, with a majority of men in favour and a majority of women opposed.

      Doubtless the relative numbers may have changed somewhat given brexit, demographic changes and inflow versus outflow numbers since 2014, particularly given brexit.

      Perhaps Rev Stu could commission a poll of “New Scots” to gauge their views? I don’t think there has been any large scale or properly weighted polling devoted to their voting intentions.

      Some interesting charts on the Edinburgh Uni study from 2015 in the DR article below:

      https://archive.ph/izlrV

    385. Stuart MacKay says:

      Breeks @8:25am

      I agree that Scotland’s position is unique when you look at the list of countries that voted for independence.

      Even if all of Scotland had entered into the union voluntarily it’s now obvious that it’s no longer fit for purpose and needs to be dissolved. Once our independence is restored, I think if there’s any widespread approval, it’s only fair that negotiations to rejoin the UK take place and we can have a referendum then on whether to take that step.

    386. Merganser says:

      Ross @ 11.00

      It wouldn’t be inaccurate.

      But you are not going to a dance, you are going up the garden path with Nicola who lives at the top of a cliff which has a sheer drop into the sea. If you survive the fall, how long before you recover?

    387. Hatuey says:

      Was just talking to a gloomy stranger about yesterday’s events, as you do. He was optimistic about Scotland getting independence at some point, but not in his lifetime… the guy was about 20 years old.

      I hear that sort of defeatism more often these days, and those saying it are getting younger and younger. If you ever walk into a bar and hear a sperm saying something like that, you’ll know it’s time to apply for an Irish passport.

      That’s the Sturgeon effect in a nutshell.

    388. Stoker says:

      Mr Blue Sky says on 23 November 2022 at 10:03 pm

      “Whilst I enjoy reading your site, and it’s mainly balanced views, this article is pure nonsense and propaganda. You were given a referendum in 2014, the majority voted to stay.”

      That’s the trouble with folk like you. Operating on only half the story and keeping the shameful part hushed up. Folk like you never mention the avalanche of lies & deception that was fed to Scotland’s electorate, on everything from currency to bombing our airport runways if we voted Yes etc.

      Nor is there ever any mention of the ‘cold-calling’ groups set up south of the border to phone Scotland’s pensioners and put the fear of God into them by telling them they will not receive their UKGov pensions if Scotland votes ‘Yes’.

      Nor any mention of the despicable tactics of Unionist politicians throughout that 2014IndyRef campaign. Tactics such as Gordon Brown blatantly lying about Great Ormond Street hospital. Or Ruth ‘The Mooth’ Davidson’s favourite that Scotland can only guarantee its continued EU membership if it voted ‘No’.

      Or how about Alistair Darling’s deception on the currency? Constantly refusing to answer the question on Scotland being able to continue using the pound (Sterling). And repeatedly demanding Alex Salmond declare his “plan-B” on the currency as a deflection rather than answer the question because that would require Darling to tell the truth. Something totally alien to Unionist politicians.

      Still, at least Darling & Davidson got handsomely rewarded for their services to Downing Street. They’ll not be getting held to account for their lies and deception. And none of them will be struggling this winter either trying to decide whether to heat or eat.

      If you’re going to tell a story, at least be honest enough to tell the full story and not just the part that suits your agenda.

    389. Breeks says:


      Dan says:
      24 November, 2022 at 10:59 am…

      Did you sort your car? There’s often an extra little fuse / junction box on or near the positive battery terminal which has several preliminary fuses on the supply lines to the main fuseboxe(s).

      Nope. Being stubborn. It’s a Landy, so electrics aren’t brill at the best of times. It’s not a fuse in the main fuse box, nor the second fuse box under the seat. If there’s a third, I don’t see it.

      I think it’s a short or a break.

      I lost my lights driving at night. Burning smell, stronger than a fuse blowing, but nothing on fire. Had a look by torch, but couldn’t see any duff fuses. Made it home on full beam & a fog light. (Sorry to anybody I met for giving it the razzle dazzle all the way home).

      Next morning I found the headlight switch a bit melted. I put an emergency switch in, and hey presto, lights worked. Briefly.

      The lights have gone again, but it’s not the new switch, hasn’t melted or got hot, nor a fuse.

      There are three yellow boxes look like relays below the fuses, one is something to do with lights. They’re identical looking relays, same code numbers, so swapped them about, but nothing changed. The fault didn’t move.

      My guess is a broken wire between the switch (which gets juice) and the relay which distributes the power to 2 head lights and 2 tail lights, and makes the main beam stay on without holding it.

      The blown fuses might just be the rogue live wire touching something it shouldn’t.

      I could probably Hotwire the lights with a dedicated fuse if I can’t find the problem and be mobile after dark again, but that’s not the best solution and leaves the problem undiagnosed.

      It’s really not helpful this time of year. Feel like Will Smith in the I am legend movie… gotta get home before dark or it’s big trouble. Lol.

      So much to do in such limited daylight already.

    390. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 11:41 am

      “…Recent polls have suggested that things may have changed since however. For example in the split between men and women, which at the time of the Edinburgh Uni study had a majority of women voting Yes (56.6%) but a majority of men voting No (53.2%), whereas recent polling suggests that has flipped, with a majority of men in favour and a majority of women opposed.

      Think you’ve made a wee error there. Was it not 57% of woman voted No, not YES. IE. Studies show 53% of men voted YES, whilst 57% of women voted No in 2014.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

      Of course the genderwoowoo being so avidly pushed by the “Scottish” “National” “Party” which disproportionally negatively impacts women and girls is not a policy you would expect to be such a focus from an organisation which wanted to garner more support from the women demographic.

    391. ross says:

      @merganser

      So it’s accurate it then.

      If the cliff is Westminster that’s always been there. At least the mist has cleared whether that was 6 years ago or yesterday matters not. It wasn’t set by Sturgeon, Salmond or anyone else. All Sturgeon, Salmond, the greens and anyone else can do is ask people to vote for independence.

      Nothing more, nothing less. It’s up to us to vote for it now in 2024. Nobody to blame but ourselves if we don’t.

    392. James Che says:

      If it has a jack, put it back,

      We certainly recognise a jack flying on a Westminster devolved from england to Scotland Sculdugdary Scottish pretend branch office.

      The biggest union jack, in Scotland to put back.

    393. James Che says:

      It is time for the people to reconvene the Scottish parliament,

    394. Stoker says:

      @ Andy Ellis (11.41 am)

      Thanks for the link. Yeah, just quickly scanning through it i can see at least 2 or 3 interesting points. And i couldn’t help but think ‘events dear boy events’. So much has changed since then, not just the male/female vote (no doubt mainly due to Sturgeon’s gender preoccupation) but i’d imagine Brexit will also have a huge say in more recent figures. Then there’s the way folk perceive how the pandemic was handled and now the UK’s cost of living crisis too.

      One of the things i noticed about the info in that article was the figures in relation to age groups. If memory serves me correctly, there was a poll run by some Tory (can’t remember his or his company’s name) right after the referendum. The morning after the vote is when the poll was publicised. And i’m sure the figures then were quite different from the figures in that article. Would be interesting to get those figures and compare.

      And yes, i agree, i think it would be useful for Stuart to include relevant questions in his next poll so that these figures can be compared even further. Figures from back in 2014, figures from that link and figures in an up to date poll so trends & swings etc could be identified.

    395. Shug says:

      Andy Ellis
      To be honest I think Scotland’s history ticks all the boxes for colony status.
      I accept Westminster will not move and so assume we have to move to “the full malky” if we want progress

    396. Dan says:

      @ Stoker

      Are you thinking of the Ashcoft poll?

      More stats in following link.

      https://whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/voted-yes-voted/

    397. Dan says:

      Ashcroft…

    398. Breeks says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      24 November, 2022 at 11:42 am

      …, it’s only fair that negotiations to rejoin the UK take place and we can have a referendum then on whether to take that step.

      I was absolutely serious. I’ve said it before, it was screamingly obvious to me that before Scotland was Brexited, a Constitutional bust-up of the UK which left Scotland in the EU and England free to pursue its Brexit misadventure, and solve the Irish backstop, was for Scotland to be a buffer state, in a quasi Benelux Trade Agreement with former UK nations, and functioning an intermediary between Europe and English trade.

      You could even have called it the UK by name, but it would not have any similarity to the Treaty of Union UK.

      Yes it meant a hard border at Gretna, but I’ve never understood why people see that as a bad thing. It would be the EU’s Border, and defuse the situation in NI.

      Everybody got what they wanted. Scotland Independence in Europe, England with cushion to Brexit’s hard landing, and Europe with access to English trade and a handle that encouraged England to keep it’s trade convergent with EU standards and ECJ jurisdiction.

      The only big loser was Westminster losing Scotland’s resources, and needing a home for Trident. That reality tells it’s own story.

      I don’t say it lightly that Sturgeon should have been impeached in 2016. Independence was in the palm of our hand, (caused by England if there was reparations to be pursued while carving up UK debt), but not just a Constitutional Independence, but Scottish Independence which both Europe and England would draw massive material benefit from and had reason to actively endorse. Thus International recognition and an amicable divorce was all but guaranteed.

      What did she do? Less than fuck all, up until she sold Scotland down the river and threw a bucket of sick over the Claim of Right.

      She is a humongous liabity to Scotland and out-rogues the infamous parcel o’ rogues from 1707.

    399. Stoker says:

      @ Dan on 24 November 2022 at 12:23 pm

      Thanks for that contribution, Dan. (thumbs up)

    400. Stoker says:

      @ Dan,

      Ashcroft, that’s the one. Thanks again!

      Now i can see if i can get my hands on his 2014IndyRef findings.

    401. Breeks says:

      The only over simplification is England losing Scotland’s resources. I don’t believe England could survive Brexit without them.

    402. Confused says:

      I have been with the RAC for 20 years, never let me down. It is impressive the range of services they offer, including “free legal advice”.

      Now, for ages I thought this was about car prangs, personal injury and it is but also – ANYTHING AT ALL. Makes me think. Will I try their helpline

      press 1 for divorce and “she turned the weans aginst us”
      press 2 for “they were already dead when I arrived and I picked up the knife by accident, then I heard the police siren”
      press 3 for personal injury claims
      press 4 for constitutional matters involving legal competency to hold another independence referendum

      YA DANCER!

      Not worse than Dorothy Bain I would think.

      (talks to the guy)

      HAVE YOU PUSHED THE MATTER OF UN ARTICLE 1 ?

      (these guys know their stuff)

      SHOULD YOU NOT TRY AN INTERNATIONAL COURT RATHER THAN A UK ONE?

      (tasty)

      YOU KNOW – YOU COULD JUST CALL IT – AS LONG AS THE YANKS ARE ON BOARD WITH IT; CONSIDER KOSOVO THATS A MADEUP PHONEY BALONEY COUNTRY BUT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT FRIENDS

      (o sensei)

      RAC – top quality consitutional advice and fix 95% of breakdowns at the roadside.

      CAN DOROTHY BAIN CHANGE A WHEEL?

      I think not. Case closed.

    403. Stoker says:

      @ Jamie on 24 November 2022 at 12:50 pm

      Thank’s for the link Jamie. It’s the same one as Ellis posted but thank you all the same. At least you backed up your claim. Cheers!

    404. Dan says:

      @ Shug at 12:40 pm

      Re. Being a colony and that section of text Andy posted.
      No other parliament or government may reduce the powers, authority, sovereignty or legitimacy of the National Assembly, or impose constraint on the democratic will of the Quebec people to determine its own future.

      What’s the starting baseline on just what powers a place should hold to be classed as not being a colony.
      Plus it’s also worth remembering that what limited powers / control we do have devolved to the Scottish Parliament is effectively harnessed by the implementation of a voting system specifically designed to thwart total control being held by any one Party.

      Rees Mogg on 27th Nov 2020 had this to say.

      https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1332295965471019013

    405. Jamie says:

      Graf Midgehunter 1208 am

      I think having a defacto referendum every 5 years on independence will lead to independence.

      I think the deep state or English state must know independence is inevitable and they are planning accordingly.

      Plans are already progressing for the nukes to be moved to Devon I believe on independence.

      The wind is blowing for independence it can’t be stopped.

      Scotland and England will do just fine after the UK.

    406. Merganser says:

      Ross @ 12. 26.

      I take it you still trust Sturgeon.

      I don’t.

      The cliff is only a Westminster one if Sturgeon is in cahoots with them, which is certainly possible.

      More likely to be a a completely home-made one she was forced into by 8 years lack of action..

      Alex Salmond didn’t build a cliff. He built a platform for independence which Sturgeon demolished.

      Best of luck with your leap of faith.

    407. Republicofscotland says:

      “I ask because the judge added we have no right to appeal to the UN as we are not a colony and we are not oppressed.”

      Shug.

      It kind of answers itself, if we can’t appeal then were oppressed.

    408. Ruby says:

      How accurate is it to call the Scottish parliament Scottish?

      Holyrood is the UK Government in Scotland.

      Same applies to all the political parties calling themselves Scottish & that includes the SNP.

      The SNP are part of the UK Government.

      The set up looks very much like a colonial set up.

      Ah yeah some lawyers said Scotland is not a colony but then some lawyers also said Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became lesser England.

      https://archive.ph/LWORD

      UN state ‘SNP gender reforms ‘dangerous for women’,

      Perhaps the passing of the Sturgeon’s GRRB will qualify us as a colony.

      The hate crimes, denial of freedom of speech, trial without jury etc etc all sound like supression.

    409. Shug says:

      I have just listened to fmq and no body raised yesterday’s decision by the SC

      Am I missing something

    410. Graham garden says:

      No one appears to have pointed out that it was the snps submissions to the Supreme Court which formed the basis of most of the adverse comments from the justices. Was this deliberate or negligence on their part?

    411. Stoker says:

      Hi Brian, thanks for the links. Most appreciated!
      __________

      @ Ruby (2.42 pm)

      A bit like all those great stalwarts of the “Scottish” media such as BBC Scotland, STV News, The Scottish Daily Express and The Scottish Daily Mail etc.

      Then we have the great and almighty institutions such as the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman (SPSO) based in Edinburgh. Its greatest power is it can make organisations say ‘sorry’. Its online set-up is laughable, and it doesn’t have a patch on the English version.

      Yes, someone somewhere realised early on that us Scots are easily bought. Stick a “Scotty” on it and we’re putty in their hands. And it’s been a trend ever since. At least that’s how it would seem. Thank goodness for the world-wide-web. The best educational tool since chalk & slate. LOL!

    412. birnie says:

      The False Flag

      The Supreme Court has stated, in the clearest terms, that the UK is not a union of equals. Scotland’s constitutional status is analogous to that of Quebec, a mere province in a federal state. The term “United Kingdom”, implying the union of two sovereign states, is therefore not accurate in terms of the Trades Descriptions Act.

      The “Union Flag” is the symbol of the “UK” and is similarly false. It is a False Flag, signifying only the supremacy of the imperial power.

      Our esteemed First Minister, as leader of the Scottish Government, may feel obliged to respect the judgement of the Supreme Court; we, as citizens, are not.

      We, as citizens, should not tolerate the public display of the False Flag, the symbol of a fictitious union of two countries and we, as citizens, should do all in our power to have the False Flag removed from public display, by fair means or foul.

      I would like to see an effective campaign against the display of the False Flag, starting with a picket by the pole outside Holyrood bearing the offensive banner, followed by elected councillors of the movement petitioning local authorities for the banner’s removal – anything to tarnish further the reputation of the “butcher’s apron”.

      Our First Minister having failed to take any significant action following yesterday’s London judgement, it falls to individual members of the independence movement to take such action as they can to advance the cause.

      Living as I do within a few miles of Athelstaneford in East Lothian, the home of the Saltire, the sight of the False Flag is particularly irksome.

    413. Colin McKay says:

      At least we’ve got Wings back, it might persuade a few more people to realise that Sturgeon is an inept fool with no interest in independence.

    414. aLurker says:

      @stoker

      If anyone does find good DATA on the ethnic vote split then that would certainly spread some light. We could definately do with less heat and opinion. 😉

      https://peterabell.scot/2019/12/29/not-happening/#comment-12171

    415. aLurker says:

      @stoker

      “Facts are chiels that winna ding ” – Voters born outwith Scotland decided the Outcome of the 2014 Independence Referendum and Will Do Again in the Next One

      By caltonjock

      December 30, 2019

      https://caltonjock.com/2019/12/30/facts-are-chiels-that-winna-ding-voters-born-outwith-scotland-decided-the-outcome-of-the-2014-independence-referendum-and-will-do-again-in-the-next-one/#comments



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