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Wings Over Scotland

The stitch-up

Posted on November 09, 2015 by

What Unionists insisted was the biggest and most important parliamentary transfer of powers to a devolved government anywhere in the world was squeezed into five and a half hours of debate time in the House Of Commons tonight, approximately two hours of which were taken up by Westminster’s farcical voting system.

Of the remaining three and a bit hours, a third of the time was taken up by the three MPs you can see video of at the bottom of this post. We know it’s a lot to ask to watch an hour of politicians deliberately trolling Scotland, but if you didn’t see the debate live it’s about the minimum you need to get an accurate sense of the tone.


At the end of it all, a small number of things had been decided.

– Holyrood will NOT have the power to call another referendum

Labour and the Tories voted against.

– Holyrood will NOT have power over equal opportunities

Labour abstained, the Tories voted against.

– Holyrood WILL have power over abortion

Tories and SNP voted for, Labour voted against.

– Holyrood will NOT have power over tax credits

The Tories voted against. So, in a staggering display of inexplicably brainless hypocrisy, did Labour. Yes, you read that right – after spending the last 10 days raging that the Scottish Government must expensively and by unknown means mitigate Tory tax-credit cuts, Labour turned round and denied the Scottish Parliament the power to stop them happening at all.

– The Tories refused to say they wouldn’t claw back benefit top-ups

And here’s the killer. When asked directly by SNP MP Mhairi Black if he would pledge that the Tories wouldn’t treat any compensatory payments to victims of the cuts as income and claw it back to Westminster – leaving Holyrood hundreds of millions out of pocket but the victims no better off – Mundell refused to do so, as Iain Duncan Smith had also done previously.

The Scotland Bill, if enacted, will now bring about a scenario by which the Scottish Government could have to cut services or increase taxes to fund top-up payments, implement the incredibly costly and complicated bureaucracy needed to carry it out, and then see all the money vanish NOT into people’s pockets, but into the coffers of the Treasury in London.

Labour didn’t even abstain on tax credits, their natural reaction to anything. They could have done so in total safety, knowing that Tory opposition would have blocked the devolution of them anyway.

But in one of the crassest, crudest two-fingered salutes to an entire nation ever recorded in the Palace Of Westminster, Labour voted to make doubly sure that the Scottish Parliament could do nothing about the cuts. Because no responsible government could ever now spend the sums of money necessary to mitigate the cuts, knowing that it could all be for nothing.

There’s not even a cynical political defence. Labour, screaming constantly that they’re against the tax-credit cuts, could have kept its hands clean knowing it was still dropping the SNP in the swamp.

But in opposing devolution they threw their own Scottish colleagues under the bus. The next time Kezia Dugdale or Jackie Baillie stands up, whether in the Holyrood chamber or a public debate, and makes hollow, vague, uncosted demands that the SNP clear up the Tories’ mess with Scottish people’s money, they’ll be drowned in jeers and catcalls by an audience that knows full well Labour voted AGAINST giving Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney the power to stop the cuts at the source.

The debate’s last act was the Speaker cutting the SNP’s Angus Robertson off in the middle of a sentence, just in case Scotland still wasn’t sure how much contempt it was held in. But nobody who’d been watching what had happened for the previous few hours would have been in any doubt about that.

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  1. 10 11 15 00:44

    The stitch-up | Speymouth

  2. 10 11 15 09:13

    The stitch-up | Politics Scotland |

  3. 14 11 15 20:05

    Scottish Economics: Devolution and Tax | The Common Green

  4. 24 07 16 17:46

    We Need To Talk About: A Negative Income Tax | The Common Green

195 to “The stitch-up”

  1. X_Sticks says:

    I’d say we’ve just moved to a whole new place politically.

    If we were in any doubt about our colonial status it has just been removed.

    Scotland has just taken another large step towards independence.

    I was very proud of the 56 (technically 55 & 1 indy, I know) they should be recognised for their professionalism in the face of extreme provocation and the rest of us need to take a leaf out of their book. Nurse your wrath. It will serve us well in the coming fight for Holyrood in May.

  2. gillie says:

    Time to give Scottish Labour another good kicking.

  3. Bill Steele says:

    We must get this information widely spread to the people of Scotland. Surely if people know this, there will be the groundswell we need for independence. As for Holyrood not being given the power to call another referendum, it’s neither Holyrood nor Westminster that has or could have that power. The Sovereign people of Scotland have the power. We must take up that power.

  4. Calum Craig says:

    Nope, sorry, watched 5 mins and can’t do any more… I know the outcomes, those speak volumes.

  5. R-type Grunt says:

    This has happened because they have the media in their back pockets. They’re content to create the same situation here as has existed in Northern Ireland for all my life.

  6. heedtracker says:

    And none of what really happened is even mentioned here.

    The triumph of Ian Murray

    “Significant tax powers mean that new choices will be available to the Scottish government and new welfare powers provide the opportunity to create a social security system fit for the needs of our people.

    “It is now for the SNP government to tell people across Scotland how they will use these powers. In particular, whether they will restore the money lost because of the Tory’s tax credit cuts.

  7. Nana says:

    I did not think I could feel any more rage, but I do. Seriously unhealthy at my age, any age really.

  8. Itchybiscuit says:

    You sound as angry as I feel.

    I hoped you couldn’t wait until the morning to post this – I might get a bit of rest now that you’ve articulated my feelings of rage. Once upon a time my rage would have been tinged with disappointment. I am no longer disappointed by anything Westminster does. I expect the mendacity and stupidity.

    I might only have a constituency and a list vote but I’m going to use them wisely come May. Unionist politicians need not apply.

  9. skozra says:

    I caught all this live from part 2 onwards. What an absolute nightmare this whole situation is.

  10. Bill Steele says:

    The Mainstream Media will not report this in a fair and unbiased way. The Scottish Government or the SNP must go on all tv channels, all radio channels, buy space in all the Mainstream news papers to spell out what this means for Scotland.

  11. Ruglonian says:

    Wow, that was hard work folks, was it not? (I watched it live, with Twitter for company. Not really a good idea for the blood pressure!)

    I’d just like to echo X_Sticks words: the SNP MPs restraint was admirable – especially good work from Tommy Sheppard, Joanna Cherry and Phillipa Whitford – I’m proud of them!

    Nurse that wrath, keep it warm 😉

  12. Training Day says:

    As said on the other thread, let us commit ourselves to removing Labour from Scotland for good, never to return. No mercy.

  13. Capella says:

    Can’t stand to listen again. It is excruciating. But anyone who missed it a) is extremely lucky and b) must sit through it now. You will need valium to survive the Graham Allan dirge.
    And you’ll need a stiff drink to survive the other two.

    Our Westminster MPs deserve a medal for suffering that miserable experience. We can do it in the comfort of our homes. They have to populate those poisonous benches. I’d rather listen to white noise than sit through another “Scotland Bill” debate, which is almost certainly going to happen after this fiasco.

  14. Ruglonian says:

    For those not on Twitter – Stu’s sentiments about an hour ago, (can this count as one of those material changes?).

    This is why we love you Stu 😉

    ” I swear, from this day on I will do everything in my power to wipe Labour and the Tories from the face of Scotland. Just playing till now.
    11:07pm – 9 Nov 15 “

  15. Iain More says:

    I am going to mightily pissed off if the SNP don’t take the gloves off.

    It is the usual know your place peasants from the kiddy fiddling pig effin brigades in the Westmidden Brit Establishment.

  16. Papadox says:

    Reject the Scotland bill in Holyrood! Let them do their damnedest. If they want to treat us like second class citizens (openly) then we should behave like second class citizens, towards Westminster. You reap what you sow!

  17. UncleBob says:

    This might not work. The last two didn’t, but here goes.

    I watched most of the “debate” live.
    They were just taking the p**s. They did not hide their contempt for the people of Scotland. It was blatant and obvious. Our MP’s were fantastic but the rest just wanted to waste time, have a go at anything Scottish and to twist everything into propaganda.

    I’m hoarse from shouting at the telly. Pathetic. Just pathetic.

  18. UncleBob says:

    Why won’t this work for me????

  19. Iain More says:

    I cant hide my contempt enough for those that voted Labour and Tory and those that voted Naw.

  20. UncleBob says:

    Sorry, working. I’m just exasperated with today and those ars***es.

  21. Mark Russell says:

    I think this week’s First Minister’s Questions will be worth watching, for sure.

  22. Ian MacDonald says:

    Genuinely sickened by what we’ve witnessed tonight. A black day for the people of Scotland, even if independence is now a little closer.

  23. jimnarlene says:

    ” I swear, from this day on I will do everything in my power to wipe Labour and the Tories from the face of Scotland. Just playing till now.”

    Let’s not forget the LibDems, eh.


  24. GrahamB says:

    Well I’ve got a big batch of stuff to deliver round part of our constituency. I managed about a third of it last week before the weather turned really bad but if it is anything less than hellish tomorrow I’ll be out stuffing letter boxes. Beelin’.

    That disgraceful display of ‘Westminster democracy’ today will have hardened up all the YES vote and surely converted a few thousand of the soft NOs. Coupled with the Carmichael ‘politically beneficial’ waffling today it must be pushing the day we get our freedom much closer.

    A word of caution though: Osborne and his ilk are sleekit b*****ds and will be trying to push us towards a second referendum before they lose whatever slim advantage they might still have. The longer we hang on the more they will turn off the soft NOs or make them realise they were duped so a wee bit more patience is required. First we have SP16 to win then we need to get all those Labour time-servers out of the councils in 2017 by which time the EU ref should have driven an even bigger wedge between us and the rUK.

  25. Tackety Beets says:

    I’m an Aul fellar now and I’m very sad to report that The contempt etc today was bad but it’s not far removed from the way it’s been all my life.

    The difference now is stupidly I watch the effin’ hael lot a the wy thro! Doh !

    I never understood a NO voter , but tholin’ them just got a hael lot tougher.

    Rev , I no longer understand how you manage FB , Twitter and reading all these posts and you still find time to write such fantastic scriptures as above. 11/10

    We are all behind you in clearing Tories, Labour an a F@ck wit o a Liberal oot o Scotland.

  26. Mr blastcap says:

    sad times. really sad times. i expect better from the mother of all parliamnets. Cheap points, fillibustering, the usual crap. not good enough. Another few years of this crap and it’s over. it will take that long to wake up the sleepy percentage.
    Labour: party over country. regardless of Corbyn- it’s not going to work.
    Scotland: the wee peep that began with the indyref is becoming a roar, partly because of this kind of machinery. It’s boring, it’s lame, it wont stick. HOLD THE LINE. I was never SNP before the GE 2015- but it’s the only way now. We will win through the weakness of those fucking idiots. It’s terribly frustrating, but I think the good guys will win. The opposition is fucktarded. anyhow , peace- keep up the work wings. lang may yer bum leak, etc. but fuck ’em.

  27. DerekM says:

    i agree this bill must be rejected by the Scottish government ,i would go as far as saying team 56 should come home and set up an upper chamber in the Scottish parliament and declare Scotland independent.

    Lets put the ball in their court and see what they do,yes it could mean occupation by an armed force but i really dont think those spineless pig fuckers would get away with invading another EU country without consequences.

    Its all a bluff and its time we called them.

  28. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, you read that right – after spending the last 10 days raging that the Scottish Government must expensively and by unknown means mitigate Tory tax-credit cuts, Labour turned round and denied the Scottish Parliament the power to stop them happening at all.

    That will be the epitaph of Labour in Scotland.

  29. Dave McDave says:

    Corrupt Unionists ‘N Tory Sycophants….????

  30. Bob Mack says:

    Yes. I agree with all posters. Tonight that place declared war on Scotland. So be it.
    They thought that the were destroying the credibility of a political party. They gave no thought to the people who elected them. This fight with Labour and the Tories is now to the death of them both.
    We will survive .They will not.

  31. ClanDonald says:

    What kind of zombie, living dead, horror movie type nightmare is this anyway? How many more nails do SLab need nailed in their coffin? Why won’t they just get a move on and die already FFS! Freaks.

  32. yesindyref2 says:

    Holyrood will NOT have the power to call another referendum

    Labour and the Tories voted against.

    and that will be the epitaph of the Union.

    Having the power over the ability to call a Referendum would, conversely, have made it MORE difficult for the ScotGov to call for Indy Ref 2.

  33. msean says:

    I watched it,strange kind of democracy that,almost a dictatorship. What a way to approach an election.

  34. yesindyref2 says:

    @gillie says: “Time to give Scottish Labour another good kicking.”

    No gillie, it’s time for Scotland to give Labour the same treatment over tax credits, as it gave the Tories over the Poll Tax. The Tories still haven’t recovered in Scotland, Labour never will. They have flushed themselves down the toilet, all we have to do is spray the air freshener and open the window to let the stench out.

    I wouldn’t go in there for 5 minutes.

  35. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Holyrood will NOT have the power to call another referendum.”

    So the hell what. Holyrood didn’t have the ‘power’ when it called the 2014 IndyRef. So what’s new? We called it anyway. What was the pig fancier going to do? Say “Naw!” What will any future PM say? “Naw!”

    That simply isn’t going to happen and they know it. The precedent has already been set. The people of Scotland voted to have a referendum and if we do so again then we will damn well have another. It is otherwise known as ‘democracy’ and to deny democracy simply isn’t on. And they damn well fecking know it.

    Bunch of wallopers.

  36. arthur thomson says:

    I feel as everyone else does but we have to roll with these punches. The Scottish Government must be seen by the people to do all they can, as intelligently as they can, to protect them from Westminster.

    Corbyn’s labour is even more sneering and dishonest than its predecessors. It is obvious that Corbyn wants to destroy the independence movement. It is also clear that the Greens and the ‘radical’ left have been happy to say nothing about the lack of democracy at Westminster and have, without any scruples, hitched a ride on the unionist bandwagon to promote their ‘radical’ ideas. Unless this changes rapidly we have to acknowledge the reality and distance ourselves from these people.

    More than ever we have to get squarely behind the SNP and know who our friends are. The Scottish Government and our MP’s face a huge challenge and they need our unequivocal backing through these difficult times. We have to have confidence in our leaders and support them through thick and thin. As independent minded people we won’t find that easy but they are our best chance of success. We have to back their judgement and think long and hard before we fall into the trap of giving succour to their detractors.

  37. Lesley-Anne says:

    If anyone was to think up a scenario that showed the complete and utter contempt that Westminster holds for Scotland then they could no worse than link to the S******d Bill in the House of Commons.

    I am utterly disgusted by the behaviour of the RED and BLUE Tories over this. Of course we all knew back in May that what happened on Monday would happen, SNP being brushed aside with the back of WM’s hand. However, they, WM, can only do this so many times before the “worm turns” and all hell breaks out.

    In my village idiot view the time has come for the SNP to stand up and tell WM to feck off! The time is now, in my view, for the worm to turn and bite WM severely on the earse one last time before exiting the House of Commons … PERMANENTLY!

  38. Dcanmore says:

    Holyrood Elections 2016

    Scottish Local Elections 2017

    You know what to do… wipe them out, all of them

    Start campaigning now!

  39. Petra says:

    Can’t praise our MSPs highly enough. Extremely intelligent, articulate, decent and having the patience of saints. Well done folks …… if you’re reading.

    I’m pleased that we’re seeing how comtemptible the Tories and Labour are in relation to the Scots. Showing their true colours in all its glory in the face of the threat …… Us and our fantastic politicians.

    It could be that Labour have just done us a great big favour voting against us having control over Tory tax-cut credits. Maybe they had no idea that their wee Tory pal Mundell would just claw the money back?!

    This means that there will be no point to Nicola having to find the money / raise taxes to top up benefits. It means that we won’t be flooded with benefit claimants relocating to Scotland from south of the border. More than anything it means that thousands of Scots will actually experience living under Tory rule. It will be harsh ……. hellish for them ….. horrendous for the children but the sooner everyone tastes Tory reality the better. It’ll bring us closer to getting our Independence. …. much sooner than later I would think. Expecting Nicola having to go on year after year attempting to mitigate the Tories cruel, uncompassionate economic policies was totally unrealistic.

    Westminster treated Scotland like dirt last night (nothing new there right enough) and English Labour have just trampled their Scottish colleagues faces under foot or boot into the quagmire. Scottish Labour seem mighty slow on the up take don’t you think? That’s the Better Together Union for you ….. totally backstabbing and disUnited.

    Mr Nice guy Corbyn, so-called democratic, the fair minded, anti-austerity man just voted to make life more difficult for thousands of Scottish children. Take note the English electorate. Bit by bit we’re seeing another side to him. Seems he’s just another in a long line of two-faced Labour Leaders.

    Will anyone in the CorpMedia report the facts any time soon? No! Hoping the National make it clear on their front page ……. Labour Hypocracy. Voted against the SNP being able to deal with Tory tax-credit cuts.

    I would also like to see the National highlight on their front page that ‘Scotland the most powerful devolved country in the World has no control over 70% of taxes and welfare.’

    If they don’t do it we’ll have to print off simple, explicit leaflets and deliver them to every home in the country.

  40. Petra says:


    When you get the time take a look at Craig Murrays latest blog re. Jim Murphy.

  41. ScotsCanuck says:

    Hells bloody teeth, are they trying invoke insurrection ? …. because this is the path to it !! … just one clarification, we DON’T REQUIRE Westminster’s approval to hold a legally binding Referendum on Scotland’s future, as has been proven, the Scottish people are Sovereign and their will supersedes Westminster.

    The bear has baited his own trap !!

  42. Sandy Henderson says:

    Vitally important debate, England’s lifeline. Empty benches. Voting bell. Hundreds of votes.
    Two points:
    1) Only those attending debates/amendments allowed to vote.
    2) Those deemed to be under the influence of alcohol banned from chamber.

    Employees (as MPs are) imbibing in alcohol during working hours & found to be over a prescribed limit, be censured with a warning letter. Any subsequent breaking of rule be sacked on the spot. This tends to be normal practice in most working environments.
    After all, they are paid to work, not skive.

  43. Macart says:

    I think that puts the tin lid on it.

    Westminster stabbed the Scottish electorate in the back and Labour’s betrayal is complete.

    Is there anyone out there in any doubt about what just happened today? Cameron’s ‘nothing is off the table’, Brown’s ‘near federalism’, the media’s ‘vow and devo max’, even the Smith Commission’s watered down original recommendations binned in favour of self interest. Devolution is power retained. It always was and it always will be.

    The establishment parties had absolutely no intent or interest in honouring Scotland’s right of self determination, neither as a devolved entity or an independent partner. Their one concern from start to finish was retaining Scotland’s geographic borders and securing a claim to resource and tax base… end of.

    All of what has occurred since September 19th, 2014 has been pure theatre, going through the motions. In reality there has been no Scotland Bill debates, no devolution settlement simply because debate of any sort was never intended. Their idea of a ‘settlement’ was agreed in all but signature long before a referendum took place and it certainly never required the input of Scotland’s electorate.

    The ONLY control the Scottish electorate ever had over the whole situation was their ability to walk away, become independent. That was the gamble Westminster took and boy did they ever throw absolutely everything they had in order to effect the desired outcome.

    There is however still a little rain cloud on their parade of condescension and ignorance. The result of the referendum was not decisive and they are staring across a chamber at a majority SNP representation and across a border at a majority SNP government. Why is that a problem for them you might ask? After all they’ve shit on that representation since May this year.

    The answer is simple. Those people represent the Scottish electorate and are, unlike the tame and biddable representation of past governments, able and more than willing to listen to and respond to the popular will of that electorate.

    So if we’re quite done being patient and understanding, let’s start by returning a majority SNP government in May and then politely, responding to Westminster’s devolution ‘settlement’ in the negative.

    A firm thanks…., but ‘No Thanks’.

  44. Moleskin Joe says:

    If ever there was any doubt that we need to leave this appalling dysfunctional union then just a few minutes of watching this charade should dispel it. Perhaps the single most revealing point is the eagerness of Labour members to stand up and eulogise the benefits of better together and do the Tories work for them. It was ever thus…..
    However, everything on display in this debate, so called, will be filtered, comme toujours, through the prism of MSM: the condescension, the arrogance and perhaps most of all the litany of pork pies delivered by the few establishment lackeys that turned up. And what we will be presented with will be the usual anodyne pap we always get: cannae wait (irony)tae see the EBC the morn…’the news where you are.’

  45. john king says:

    I would think that some more level headed people in Westminster would be saying about now,

    to paraphrase

    I think we have awakened a sleeping lion and filled him with a terrible resolve!

  46. willie says:

    It’s time we absolutely destroyed these bastards.

    This is not democracy. This is colonial fascism and the time for playing this game is over. Make no mistake these people hate us.

    No country has ever left Britain’s colonial grip through democratic means.

    Get anothet majority in May and take ontrol. It’s time that we rejected Westminster control.

  47. galamcennalath says:

    Over the weekend of 5th-8th September 2014, the death warrant for the Union was issued. DevoMax/Home Rule was to be offered to swing the vote back to NO. The fatal mistake was, right from the beginning, to have absolutely no intentions of actually delivering on promises.

    On 9th November 2015 the bullets were finally distributed among the firing squad.

  48. Clootie says:

    …I’m not surprised by the level of the debate or the outcome. However it has still made me very, very angry.

    The Master has spoken and made it clear that we are to be kept in our proper place.

    I look forward to hearing Labour in Scotland putting a spin on this one!

    SNP Twice for Holyrood and send a clear signal to Westminster.

  49. Ken500 says:

    It is more than outrageous. Vote every Unionist politician out of Scotland.

    Westminster is a disgrace. Most of them should be in jail. They are corrupt criminals beyond contempt. Blair and Brown should be in jail. Cameron and Osbourne are a couple of lying amateurs, ruining the UK economy. It is just a disgrace.

  50. asklair says:

    “Palace Of Westminster” sums it all up.

  51. Ken500 says:

    Cameron is a liar. It is not the EU that is causing migration. It is Westminster foreign policy, bombing the Middle East to bits. Cost £Trillions.

  52. Jdm01 says:

    They can stick EVEL right up their arse until they take SVSL a bit more seriously!

    What do we have when this passes? The ability to raise Income Tax, where 50% of that goes back to WM and the other half can mitigate spending cuts by WM & if given to struggling peoplet, would be classed as extra income and probably then subject to tax?

    They think we are blind, stupid and deaf! F@#k them all! Withdraw our SNP MP’S and let them deal with that!

    Would love to see Swinney tell them to stick the financial settlement right beside EVEL (See above).

  53. Geoff Huijer says:

    Scotland is no more than a colony; that much is obvious.

    However, it often feels that Scotland is a prisoner but just without the human rights…

  54. Janet says:

    55 + 1 will be 56 again!

    I’m sure Michelle Thomson will have her litigation specialist after those who smear!

    Anyway, in May it has to be SNP / SNP until this business with Westminster is finished!

  55. Breeks says:

    It troubles me saying so, but we are fighting a war, and losing.

    I have said it from the Indyref. In all honesty, I never expected the SNP to deliver their landslide for Westminster, and I am delighted that they did, but I asked the question then what exactly could be achieved with majority SNP representation for Scotland in a minority opposition in Westminster.

    We are deluded if we believe we are living in a democracy. All of this was surely predictable. I said that Westminster would do its utmost to geld the Scottish Unicorn so there would be no further issue of Scottish Independence. That is precisely what is now happening.

    I think it is now IMPERATIVE that the Scottish Government seizes control over broadcasting in Scotland. I don’t care that the propagandists will scream like banshees. I don’t care that the whole issue would be drawn into the law courts. Our country MUST be alerted to suppression of our democracy and political discourse.

    If the SNP cannot deliver ANYTHING at a time like this when they cannot get any stronger, then it is time to think outside the box. Our democracy is confounded, and forever will be. I repeat, there is no capacity for Scotland’s elected government to become yet stronger. Landslide in Scotland, landslide in Westminster. If it cannot deliver now, then when?

    We need to screw our courage to a sticking place. This is the time. Our Nicola needs to start swinging some haymakers.

    We NEED our Law Society to underwrite the truth that the will of the Scottish people is sovereign, and if we want control of our oil and our broadcasting, then nobody had the power to deny us.

    The SNP, and those of us who elected them, have done us all proud, but they need help and a new direction of thrust. They are doing everything correct and by the book, by that makes everything they do sadly predictable and subject to one ambush after another.

  56. Ghillie says:

    That was painful.

    A clear job lies ahead for all of us.

    That excruiating hate filled dirge will keep me and mine going with every fibre of our being to bring about Scotland’s Independence.

  57. Sandra Stewart says:

    Campaign of civil disobedience anyone? All my life I have felt like the underdog in this God forsaken Union; my accent scorned; my intelligence laughed at and my rights ignored. Enough!

  58. Breeks says:

    I repeat the call for the Scottish Government to call for a plebiscite to ask the Scottish people which governmental portfolios should be held in Holyrood, and which delegated to Westminster. I stress the word delegated.

  59. Sassenach says:

    I sat through the ‘debate’ yesterday, and as an Englishman (living in Scotland over 40 years) I was disgusted at the treatment meted out by the English MPs to Scotland.

    The utter contempt for Scots was palpable, with the final ‘coup de grace’ being Bercow’s cutting off of the SNP Leader in mid-sentence – arrogance personified.

    All Scots should be made to sit through a recording of that debate in our ‘Mother of Parliament’, if they did another referendum wouldn’t be necessary.

    Time for the gloves to come off, I reckon, and I’m hoping there will be strong comebacks over this from the SNP high heid yins.

    If Nicola doesn’t wipe the floor with Dugdale this week at FMQs then my own membership of SNP will be in question.

  60. Sinky says:

    The biggest and most important parliamentary transfer of powers to a devolved government anywhere in the world was not featured in the first 30 minutes of BBC Radio Scotland GMS at 7 pm this morning

  61. mealer says:

    Plenty meat there for us to get stuck into.

  62. Skintybroko says:

    That went as expected, the Unionists totally ignore the fact that the SNP represent the whole of the Scottish electorate, both yes and no voters.

    And as usual the BBC reporting it from the Unionist perspective. Without real unbiased reporting in the MSM we will always be on the back foot – even if Nicola gives a storming performance at FMQ’s it will be reported as an opposition win.

    We desperately need an MSM in your face campaign to present the real face of Westminster, the National isn’t enough we need BBC Scotland to start reporting for and not against Scotland.

    I appreciate that many previously have said the same but it has now become a necessity – can the SG insist on broadcasting being devolved? Can they start calling out the BBC commentators on their blatant misrepresentations? I don’t know what the answer is but am so angry at the blatant disregard the rest of the UK has for us.

  63. Robert Louis says:

    Westminster last night said loud and clear ‘F*** YOU!!’ to all of Scotland. There was no mistake.

    The really sad part of it, was watching Labour and their only Scottish MP Ian Murray join in.

    I do not normally suggest to people to join political parties, but this is the end. If you want to help ensure we wipe these Labour leeches from the Scottish political map, lend the SNP your support – even temporarily until May next year. Make no mistake, London notices such things.

    Let’s use May next year to teach the red tories and their anti Scotland blue tory bedfellows a helluva lesson come May next year.

    We either stand up for Scotland, or we might as well all go home, and become ‘jolly nice britishers’, doff our caps to England, sing ‘rule britannia’ and wear union jack suits like Labour’s Ian Murray.

    As regards the Scotland bill, I do think the Scottish Government needs to reject it wholesale. It is akin to an albatross to be hung around Scotland’s neck. It has been engineered to damage Scotland, and that is all.

  64. heedtracker says:

    “I’ve heard it said that ‘we’ve got to leave, because they’ll punish us if we don’t’, but my guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go.

    All the major political parties are currently wooing us with offers of extra powers, keen to keep Scotland happy so that it does not hold an independence referendum every ten years and cause uncertainty and turmoil all over again.

    I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if we vote to stay.”

    As usual, a super rich English nat explaining the whole fraud last year. Rowling’s “we” in particular is pretty horrify after last night.

    What a pack of malicious frauds.

  65. Alison Rollo says:

    For the first time I see the probability of bloodshed — something I would never ever have expected wanted!
    They will never freely let us go – even if we get to 90%. My heart is bleeding today.

  66. North chiel says:

    Time for “the gloves to come off”. Holyrood should unequivocally reject “the Bill” .The SNP need to
    appeal to the Scottish electorate , with a manifesto commitment of FFA ( to be spelled out) with ” in the meantime ” a remittance to the treasury as regards defence&FA ” to be capped and not to include any payment liability over trident renewal.Thereafter ,the manifesto should make it
    clear that if Westminster renews trident , it must not be located in Scotland .
    Let Dugdale have “Devo Mundell” .

  67. Another Union Dividend says:

    Sinky says: at 7.29

    Amazingly still no mention on BBC NEWS that Labour voted with the Tories against devolving Tax Credits to Scottish Parliament.

  68. Ruby says:

    Robert Louis says:
    10 November, 2015 at 7:43 am

    We either stand up for Scotland, or we might as well all go home, and become ‘jolly nice britishers’, doff our caps to England, sing ‘rule britannia’ and wear union jack suits like Labour’s Ian Murray.

    Ruby replies

    Lie back and think of England!

  69. Sooz says:


    What a pack of malicious frauds.

    I’m incoherent. Raging. How and where do I direct this anger. I’m normally a reasonable, objective woman who tries to see the positives in everything but right now I feel like a trapped, abused, starved zoo animal that is about to batter my way out of the cage and bite all the zoo keepers.

    Labour never wanted to even consider working as a team to challenge the Tories. We see them for what they are in all their miserable, spiteful colours. As for the Tories we know what they’re like and they will never change – nasty is in their DNA.

    This is the end of the road for the unionist parties in Scotland. People say don’t get angry, get even. Well I shall be doing both.

    Have nothing but pride and gratitude for how our SNP MPs withstood the insults yesterday. In all my life I have never seen a party stand up for their constituents in such a dignified and committed way as our MPs do, day after day. We are an army. Draw up the battle lines.

  70. john king says:

    On the BBC Scotland website
    “Mr Mundell said it would come as “no surprise” that the government was not accepting the SNP’s full fiscal autonomy amendment, as he said there was “not a shred of evidence people want it”.”

    Where have you been fluffy?

  71. Ruby says:

    If they really wanted to keep the Union together they should have listened to Sir Edward Leigh he is the only one I’ve heard who makes sense.

    I’ve no idea what the rest of the Unionist MPs want!
    They all seem to be having a hissy fit!

    What is it all about? Is it a power thing?

    I’m confused as to why people who voted YES are so angry. Were they expecting a different outcome?

    I can however understand why NO voters would be angry. They believed in the promise that we would be Better Together.

  72. Glamaig says:

    I watched 30 mins of the Scotland Bill Parliament Channel last night. During that time the only Scottish MP allowed to speak was our sole Tory, Mundell. The rest of the time was taken up by English MPs talking about Scotland while the SNP have to sit and listen.

    Radio Scotland this morning gave a brief mention to the Scotland Bill, but much bigger news apparently is the fact that Scottish MPs may oppose English Sunday opening.

  73. Arabs for Independence says:

    Sinky @7:29

    Totally disgraceful (non) reporting of this major issue. SNP (and now Russia) bad.

  74. gerry parker says:

    Local newspapers are a good way to spread information to people who would not otherwise see it.

    I write to my local newspaper on a regular basis and am pleased to say they almost always print the letter.

    Here is a list of local paper e mails I have compiled (hope this works)

    Keep it polite and factual.

  75. Sinky says:

    BBC still haven’t mentioned that Labour voted with the Tories to keep tax credits under Tory Westminster control.

    However I am sure Thursday’s Question Time will devote some time to discuss this historic Bill…. oh wait its from Stoke and Dimbledum won’t allow Scottish issues.

    Labour press luvvies getting message out quickly that Holyrood is now the strongest parliament in the universe and that the Vow has been delivered (all thanks to Labour).

    This from Peter Jones in Scotsman this morning

  76. Macart says:

    @John King

    “no shred of evidence”

    He said that did he?

    He is aware there were 18k submissions to the Smith commission?

    Either way John, those pricks lit the blue touch paper last night. They welched on what they led the electorate to believe and they WILL come to regret their greed, their ignorance and their treatment of our mandate.

  77. Davis says:

    That oily wee Tory tit and failure Costa really burst me but as usual Labour turn their back on Scotland. It was ever thus tbh !

  78. Jim Arnott says:

    If Scots really didn’t know it before then they sure know it now – Scotland is up shit creek without a paddle.

  79. Sinky says:

    OK Scotland Bill Being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.
    Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.

  80. Cloggins says:

    Scotland is a sovereign nation, and therefore holds the power to decide on independence. Out of decency such an act is usualy preceded by a referendum – even if some fuglies in a foreign country are saying that to call for one is illegal. So we can do it without a referendum, a simple poll should do it. Start printing passports and money now!

    The very same goes for the queen. Scotland can replace the present queen by a younger, healthier and more contemporary one without anybody’s consent. Bees do it all the time.

    Sovereignty has its rewards.

  81. Lanarkist says:

    Kay(e) on phone in at 9.04 to discuss Scotland Bill.

    Are people happy with any of the outcomes?

    Hit the airwaves.

    As if any of us will make it through the phone call gatekeepers!

    A dark day for Scotland. The mood has changed significantly!

  82. Tackety Beets says:

    I’m back on my SNP too Respectful and Polite again.

    Caught GR & Angus on GMS after 8 just now.

    When asked about Voting against the GVT is just in revenge for EVIL and such BS questions

    SNP needs to formulate a DECENT reply.

    Along the lines of

    “I await you asking the same Q of Lab/Con/Lib Scottish MPS,
    Are you suggesting that MPS should not represent their constituents just because we are in Scotland.Did you ask those Qs of English MPs last night in the Scotland Bill” or at least something that is a bit more harder hitting than “No,it is not.”

    As per Sinky get stuck in OT and tell the listeners that Labour voted with the Tories to keep Tax credits @ WM.

    SNP,just blurt it out. You know you want to.

  83. Macart says:

    Worth repeating.

    Post links to these vids far and wide. Most folk wouldn’t visit parliament TV on a bet, but getting this treatment and that conclusion seen far and wide is a must. People need to see for themselves, not have it filtered or spun through the media.

  84. Ruby says:

    The guys speaking in the above videos are the ones I refer to as

    “UKOK Better Together Hate Preaching Sensible Daves’

    Sensible Daves = people who live in England.

    What they are saying comes as no surprise to me and I’m trying to figure out why people are getting so angry about.

    I’m just wondering if people posting on Wings chose to ignore all the posts by these ‘Sensible Daves’ on The Scotsman during the IndyRef.

    Had they read the posts on ‘The Scotsman’ none of this would come as a surprise.

    I don’t think this is anything to get angry about just the opposite. I think this will help increase the YES vote.

    Anger is not a good thing. It’s a very negative emotion. Better not to get angry.

  85. Bob Mack says:

    Fellow Wingers,

    One very important thing happened last night.
    Joanna Cherry has put the cat among the pigeons big time.

    The whole Tory plan evolved around one central plank,which was the removal of the Human Rights Act from Scotland.
    In the event of a dispute about our right to hold a referendum,the case would go to Brussels,who I have no doubt would find in our favour.
    England wanted and needed the final arbiter of this to be the Supreme Court in London.

    Joanna has told them the Scottish Government will retain our current Human Rights Act ,no matter what they do.
    In fact she made it very clear the SNP were only trying to help the rest of the UK do the same.

    This is the Constitutional crisis that is looming on the horizon,and that will trigger ref 2.

    Be of good cheer,and realise that the end game is coming.

  86. Training Day says:

    With a No vote, many of us predicted that Scotland would face annihilation very soon afterwards. That is where we stand this morning.

    There comes a point when playing the game by the rules of a colonialist master becomes not just self-defeating but damaging to the participant. We are surely at that point. Either Scotland is a nation worthy of self-determination or it is not. We – the SNP – need to withdraw from Westminster.

    The alternative is to continue being roundly humiliated, traduced and ultimately fully absorbed into the cesspit on the Thames and into a greater England.

  87. Andrew McColl says:

    I’ve just checked the BBC Scotland news website. The lead story, highlighted by a picture of Holyrood….where the action wasn’t last night, and accompanied by a headline that goads..

    “Scotland Bill: Scottish powers bill backed by Commons”

    The article went on to say…

    “A series of amendments tabled by the UK government aimed at clarifying and strengthening some sections of the bill were approved.
    These included control over abortion law, which was opposed by Labour, and enhanced powers over welfare, including the ability to top-up any cuts to tax credits made by the UK government.”

    Anyone who still harbours any belief in the neutrality of that organisation needs to talk to someone.

    Even me, enlightened over the years by the Rev amongst many, was gently shocked at the report’s intentions. I’ll never trust the BBC again.

  88. heedtracker says:

    Its all being buried by UKOK media, like what they did with EVEL.

    Maybe they think Scotland’s not watching.

    Last night was horrifying and Rancid but NOT Britnat the Graun’s a good site to watch historic fraudsters of the fourth UKOK estate in action. But they keep saying its love of Scotland, just hatred of vile seps by loyal Brits like this

    A long route ends up Scotland fcuked over hard but certainly exposed our chums in the south character. England owns Scotland.

  89. Many thanks for that Stuart.
    I joined the S.N.P a few years ago due to the lies and abuse that were being bandied about during the referendum campaign. This latest farrago merely reinforces that feeling, and it’s good to hear the anger of your rapidly increasing readership about this latest attempt to consign the people of Scotland to the dark ages.
    It won’t work of course, despite the best attempts of the M.S.M to dress it up for all their worth because we now have one of the most politically aware electorates in the world.
    And that in no small part is due to you, and the other websites promoting our cause, which of course is full independence for Scotland.
    So, to all of you, keep up the good work, and I’m away, since the rain seems to have gone off, to do more leafleting.

  90. galamcennalath says:

    Bob Mack says:

    “Be of good cheer,and realise that the end game is coming.”

    Ruby says:

    “I don’t think this is anything to get angry about just the opposite. I think this will help increase the YES vote.”

    Yes. I think a huge opportunity to get a bucket load of previous NO voters converted has just been handed to us.

    This is the time to shift majority opinion to Yes, permanently.

  91. simon says:

    Scotland is a Kingdom

  92. Mike Fenwick says:

    @ Rev.Stuart Campbell … I have just sent you a private message through your contact link.

    I have an idea which may directly challenge the sanctions and tax credit regimes. To date I have been able to make contact and outline the idea with 2 Yes groups and 1 anti-austerity group, and over time I have more of these planned across Scotland, with a potential tie in with the work Jason Baird is doing. I think I can also claim to have the support of Mike Small at Bella.

    The idea is drawn from work I did in the early 2000’s – can you e-mail me and I will outline what I am doing, and provide the evidence that backs it up, which pro tem I want to do offline.

  93. scotspine says:

    Please, will folk stop referring to Mundell as “Fluffy”?.

    He is a nasty, collaborating bastard! Nothing more.

  94. Surprise, surprise Labour voted against Holyrood having the power over tax credits.

    I wonder what excuse Dugdale and her Labour cronies in Scotland will peddle for that decision.

    I hope Nicola gets stuck into her over tax credit powers on Thursday at FMQs

  95. One_Scot says:

    Come the Scottish Election next May, it is imperative that the SNP make sure they send information to every household in Scotland detailing and informing the Scottish voting public about the amount of times Labour at Westminster helped the Tories push through their cuts agenda against Scotland.

    Because if they don’t, the unionist media certainly isn’t going to.

    SNP x 2 May 2016

  96. Xaracen says:

    I’m wondering how much more we are expected to take from these malevolent tapeworms before the SNP Government formally declares the UK Government to be an Enemy of the Scottish People, withdraw all of its MPs, and then sue for Independence on the simple grounds of the self defence of Scotland and its people.

    The evidence of Westminster’s malicious intent to cause deliberate harm to Scotland’s people, economy and government, and of the Tories’ actions to render our democratically elected MPs at Westminster impotent by stacking rules, procedures and committees against them, has surely reached or is reaching critical mass?

    Westminster has made it abundantly clear that it does not regard itself as having any duty of care or responsibility regarding the wellbeing of Scotland and its people, economy, culture or institutions. There is solid evidence going back many decades of their bilking us of our proper share of public funds, overcharging us for UK services rendered, and even billing us for their own borrowings.

    They have undermined and destroyed much of our economy, lied to us about our oil, and have refused to deal fairly with us on any level. They are clearly not a friendly government, are not even neutral bystanders, but are actively plotting against us and have been doing so for a long, long time. Why are we putting up with it?

  97. Ruby says:

    Bob Mack very interesting post.

    There is so much happening at the moment it’s difficult to keep up.

    It’s particularly difficult for me because I know nothing about ECHR, the Supreme Court, Nato, Gers, tax credits, etc etc etc.

    I would say I’m pretty typical of the vast majority of voters in Scotland so it would be pretty easy to con me except that I no longer have any faith in Unionist politicians or the MSM.

    I just ask myself simple questions about most issues and I find that works pretty well. One of the issues that made me decide to vote YES was the idea of the Tories making decisions about my human rights.

  98. Jim says:

    That fool, Duncan Hothersall on radio Sc…..d.

    Stuttering his way through his answers because he knows the Scotland Bill is a bag of excrement but will justify it by lying through his fucking teeth.

  99. heedtracker says:

    Tragi comic look back at how the fraudsters rip off their Scotland region

    The Scottish lassie clutching mother England/Britannia and her Devo-Max scroll wrapped in a ribbon in this mocking shyste got a real world dose off UKOK last night.

    You have to wonder if UKOK hacks are actually psychotic but when it comes to English nationalism, anything teamGB goes.

  100. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Xaracen (9.38) –

    Well said.

    Pity Rev didn’t call in to Kaye and tear a strip off Hothersall. Never mind – let him bawbag until next May, cause next June? there will be no Labour party in Scotland for him to bawbag about.

  101. One_Scot says:

    I know I have said it before, but if Scotland could not win an Independence referendum tomorrow, there is something serious F’ucked up somewhere.

  102. Papadox says:

    Well at least we know for sure now SLAB have been selling out Scotland and its people for the last 40 years. There is no way back for them. The only word to describe the unionist parties are sleekit and anti democratic and corrupt.

  103. Colin Church says:

    Call Kaye becomes let’s ask Duncan H and Prof Curtice what we are getting. Duncan just lies on air on minimum wage, Scottish steel, Scottish coal…
    When did Curtice become the arbiter?
    A farce of WM proportions.
    And now Scott from Edinburgh to complete the trolling.

  104. paul gerard mccormack says:

    I knew this anyway from an early age, but the ‘british/greater serbia’ can go fuck themselves, same as it ever was.

  105. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    “The Scottish lassie clutching mother England/Britannia and her Devo-Max scroll wrapped in a ribbon”

    … dated 21st Sept, very good. More evidence to pile on the heap that the perception held then was that their win had been bought with a DeviMax promise.

    The Scottish lassie does indeed hold that ‘prize’ firmly in her grasp.

    But the sheet of paper was blank. Some of us knew that then, far more Scots know that this morning!

    This is a big day on our road to self determination. There can now be absolutely no doubt that DevoMax is dead, gone. A stake driven through its heart yesterday by WM.

    IMO that is a good thing. DevoMax was never going to happen, yet it stood there throughout the last umpteen years as an alternative, a compromise, a middle way.

    Now, EVERY SCOT knows there are two option … what we saw last night, and independence.

  106. Fran says:

    I have never been a member of a political party, as I have never agreed with all policies of parties but now I feel I will need to join the only party in Scotland that has its best interests for the people in Scotland.

    All hands on deck

  107. Les Wilson says:

    I feel the pain of our MP’s having to put up with they what they, and the people of Scotland have just been subject too.If anyone doubted our place in things, we certainly know now with that undemocratic Westminster disgrace.

    I am so angry how we have been cheated,but it was not unexpected.
    It proves to me, that Scotland is a financially hog tied, occupied colony. Until we change it.

    We need to wipe out all Unionist parties in Scotland, that would be a start, but by no means the end of what we must do.

    The puppet lives and is out of the box now, and he is very very unhappy.

  108. Fred says:

    No surprises with Corbyn, a man of straw who’ll go up in flames shortly. Hadn’t even the strength of character to stand by his principles & keep schtum at the cenotaph, but at least he defined the meaning of “lip-service”.

    Can’t wait to read McWhirter on his recent support for Slab’s tax-credit wheeze. “Oh look, a squirrel!”

  109. Colin Church says:

    Ditched the BBC tax during indyref1 but wishing there was a mechanism for a back dated refund for 25 years now ears and eyes open and alert to their pish.

  110. Les Wilson says:

    Kaye now gives us garden sheds FFS.

    I note that many of the Unionist callers over yesterday, powers are just what we need blah blah came in via text.
    Hmmm did they really?

  111. Fred says:

    PS, is this Alex Gallagher the prick from Largs who cluttered up the letters page in the days when I used to buy the Herald or is he a different prick?

  112. Hugh Barclay says:

    I can’t believe Labour voted with the Tories to stop Tax Credits being devolved in full, They are the lowest of the low slime scum.

    I agree with The Rev, we must do anything and everything to rid our country of this disgusting Unionist filth.

  113. ScottieDog says:

    Hugely depressing affair last night. When will people wake up.

  114. Hugh Barclay says:

    It rhymes with clucking bell.

  115. Hamish100 says:

    I believe Alex Gallagher at the top of the page – see tweet, is a Labour Councillor in North Ayrshire.

    Did he know his Labour Party voted with the Tories over tax credits?

    Labours policy is almost like a political party believing in spending billions on nuclear weapons but at the same time say that they are against spending………………….!


    They are!

  116. Les Wilson says:

    The SNP need to take up the cudgel and start being a bit more combative with Westminster, this nicely nicely approach is not working against our English overlords.

    As for the people, we need a very big YES gathering, to let the people exchange ideas and make plans. YES needs to be fully resurrected and we need to make ourselves heard, loudly.
    The passion is still there, we need to use it.

  117. Grouse Beater says:

    Was that Duncan Horse-whatever on ‘Ask Kaye’ explaining how much he agreed with ‘Stuart’, the previous caller that the last four years of devolution debate felt like twenty years? That was the full extent of his contribution.

    Stuart, a Labour attack dog, thought Scotland needs to concentrate on creating jobs and coal mines and the like, as if we had all gone on holiday and phoned in our opinion on constitutional change … just like him and Duncan.

    Kaye refrained politely from pointing out that the entire constitutional debate is wrapped up in getting the powers and structures to do everything Stuart and his pal felt we should be able to do.

    We had two useless Scots giving witness against Scotland’s interests while pretending to be advocating we concentrate on … Scotland’s interests.

  118. rural commune says:

    This is exactly the Scotland Bill that would have only made strategic and political sense for the unionists had the Yes vote in the indyref been around the 20% they had hoped it would be.

    Now with this insult the 45% plus the No voters who feel cheated by the Vow will be energised as never before to convert others to Yes.

    It’s not all about numbers in political movements. Energy plays an equal part. The independence movement now has numbers + energy in abundance.

    The unionists’ energy is running out, unlike the oil they claim is running out but isn’t.

  119. Hamish100 says:

    Curtesy please. Same one.

  120. Valerie says:

    It’s all been said.

    I had to just shut down last night, having watched it last night.

    Please convert that anger, and join your local SNP, you will find yourself among like minded people, working away. You will find committed, honest elected members working hard, in a very organised way.

    It does help somewhat.

  121. James says:

    I thought Westminster did not have the power or right to refuse another referendum if one was wanted?

  122. Mckemmie says:

    what an absolute farce.

  123. indigo says:

    One good thing to come out of watching the debate last night, when he saw Fluffly on the tv my son told me his P5 class at school are currently designing christmas cards for Mundell – apparently it’s an annual christmas card design competition for the constituency MP

    Going in to speak to the school this afternoon. There’s no way it’s appropriate for my SNP member son to be asked by his teacher to take part in a PR stunt for a Tory MP whose policies will be depriving many of his classmates’ households of valuable tax credit income in the near future

  124. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    10 November, 2015 at 10:02 am
    heedtracker says:

    Rancid Graun in particular do go back in time for their NOT rule Britannia nationalists cons but a thug like Bell goes way back and he ripped off this Hogarth with all the UKOK goonery he had.

    Bell turned the hated Salmond in to Hogarth’s starving broken Scots clown in the corner. Hits home again 300 years on but Britannia will take care of beggar Scots because she really loves us.

  125. Lollysmum says:

    Notice how there’s no unionist politicians in Scotland falling over themselves to be on Kay with an E today?

    Bothersall (a paid Labour hack), Prof Curtice (a pollster) & Scott Arthur (unelected nobody)

    Where’s the MP’s, MSP’s, the 3 unionist leaders in Scotland proudly shouting from the rooftops & taking credit for what was done in their name last night.Odd don’t you think?

    I really, really hope that each & every constituency makes every single unionist politician squirm & fret about their own unstable future in the run up to May 16.

    That is the real power of the people-deny them any mandate by denying them your vote.

    We already know there’s dissent given the internal scrap going on over ‘list’ places so how about WE start pushing a few of their buttons for a change? Get busy in your local areas folks 🙂 You know your local targets so start hammering them publicly.

  126. Les Wilson says:

    I agree with a previous comment, we need to legally prove beyond doubt that in Scotland the people are sovereign.
    From that, many things can happen to give us choices for the betterment of our people.

  127. Dan Huil says:

    During the referendum Labour in Scotland happily did the Tories’ dirty work. Now, with Labour in Scotland’s supine acceptance of the Scotland Bill, they are once again intent on doing the Tories’s dirty work. I can’t fully express my disgust for these Red Tories.

  128. Nation Libre says:

    I’m often angry at political events in the UK but this is just too far. These arseholes seem hell bent on creating another NI situation

    I say, let’s have another referendum now. And also, let’s quash this notion that the next will be the last. Every time that’s mentioned it should be immediately refuted. Scotland will have an effin referendum any time it effin well wants to. If they SNP have it in there manifesto and the people vote them in, they’re entitled to have one. Scotland decides not effin Westminster

    Breath, breath

  129. One_Scot says:

    I don’t think it could be made any clearer, Scotland voting No, was effectively letting the UK say,‘could someone at the back turn that Scotland switch off’.

    It is vital that the SNP gets a majority next year, or they will continue to crush Scotland.

  130. Helena Brown says:

    Heedtracker with regard to the Hogarth picture, the English Nationalist that was Hogarth, often painted in a Scot in his pictures, always in a derogatory position, hated the Scots, seems there are lots like him.
    I remember watching a programme about him and this picture was used, and funnily enough this was before the Referendum. The Gentleman discussing it, managed to get through describing it without referring to the drunk in the corner once, remarkable.

  131. Big Jock says:

    I have said this befor!The majority of no voters don’t really care about the Vow or what was promised. They could get nothing, not even the watered down Smith proposals and would still vote no. Some people just live in a parallel universe. The apathetic won the referendum!

    However that wee 6-7% of wavering no voters who thought we were getting Devo Max. Are going to help Yes win the next referendum and the unionists know that.

  132. Puzzled Puss says:

    “When asked directly by SNP MP Mhairi Black if he would pledge that the Tories wouldn’t treat any compensatory payments to victims of the cuts as income and claw it back to Westminster – leaving Holyrood hundreds of millions out of pocket but the victims no better off – Mundell refused to do so, as Iain Duncan Smith had also done previously”.

    Surely Holyrood has no choice but to reject this dog’s breakfast of a bill.

    Even if all Scottish employers could be persuaded to pay the living wage (the real one, that is, not Osborne’s sham one), thus doing away with the need for tax credits, we’d still have the problem of disability top-up payments potentially being clawed back by the UK treasury.

    I know we have to be patient, but some days it’s really not easy.

  133. One_Scot says:

    “The ‘vow’ has been delivered beyond all doubt, says Scottish Secretary David Mundell”

    That is ‘Trolling a country’ of the highest order.

  134. Swami Backverandah says:

    It’s a bit unclear why the Labour Party would be so keen to be seen voting with the Tories on the matter of tax credits.

    They’re either to thick to realise the backlash that will come from it, or prepared to suffer the backlash because they’re too afraid to be seen voting with the SNP.
    An echo of the General Election, where the Tories were quick to exploit for their own ends the notion that Labour would be in the pocket of the SNP.

    So either thick, or afraid.

    Maybe both.

  135. Flower of Scotland says:

    I couldn’t watch those videos again. I’m still feeling nauseous from watching the debate yesterday!

    I’ve never felt rage like the rage I feel now and it’s definitely not good for your health!

    I don’t normally swear, but I was swearing at Ian Murrays face on the TV yesterday! I was brought up in his constituency and fervently wish that I still lived there so that I could confront him face to face!

    That one Labour MP left in Scotland has let down the whole Nation and I’m disgusted with him!

    Noticed that the Labour trolls are out in force on Twitter Rev. Have some fun with them today!

  136. CUTommy says:

    “The most powerful devolved government in the world” and it didn’t even rate a mention in BBC national news last night.

  137. Robert Peffers says:

    @gillie says: 9 November, 2015 at 11:57 pm:

    “Time to give Scottish Labour another good kicking.”

    Why bother, Gillie? Seems to me that Labour’s Scottish Branch is doing a grand job of kicking themselves out of the park.

  138. shug says:

    Can you please set up another fundraiser you have more than earned it and I have 20 burning a hole in my pocket
    If you don’t I might subscribe to the herald and we would not want that would we

  139. galamcennalath says:

    One_Scot says:

    “The ‘vow’ has been delivered beyond all doubt, says Scottish Secretary David Mundell”

    That is ‘Trolling a country’ of the highest order.

    If the Tories are so f*cking sure they have delivered on their promises, put it to a referendum.

    Let us decide. Two options. What they have put on the table in a WM Bill versus independence.

    No changes to their offer part way through campaigning, no last minute super deals, no purdah breaching. They should say, “this is our best offer, take it or leave the Union”.

    Go on Mundell and Cameron, put your offer to a democratic test! Let’s settle this once and for all. Now we know your final offer.

    In the words of ‘Harry Callagan’, “Go ahead, make my day!”

  140. ronnie anderson says:

    @ X Sticks
    @ Ruglonian

    I nursing my Wrath. I phoned the Doctor to transfer my Flu jab to it. I want it Fit & Healthy for the next round with the Mother of all FUCKUP PARLIAMENTS.

    Cmon People stop useing the term 55+1 when reffering to our SNP MPs,whip or no whip Michelle Thomson is a elected SNP MP,we have 56 MPs.

  141. heedtracker says:

    Helena Brown

    Steve Bell ripped off Hogarth’s O the Roast Beef of Old England to satirise Salmond but it may have been a mishit there. He’d say as long as it fcuked over Salmond and vile nats, its fine.

    Hogarth satirised a lot of British stuff at the time including the aftermath of Culloden. He painted the British army leaving London to meet the Jacobites and he wasn’t impressed

    After Culloden a lot of Highlanders were either hanged, transported, dragooned, or left to beg in London. Its probably not surprising how modern hard core UKOK Britnats feed off that era.

    Nothing changes but it could have last year. All we can do now is look on at relentless STV/BBC vote SLab attack propaganda, half empty red and blue tory conference halls, Lady Mone of Mayfair, sneering malice dripping out of UKOK press, Scottish economy trying to cope with their historic Vow fraud and of course Hogarthian goons like Alberto Costa up there.

    Just like 300 years ago, UKOK won somehow.

  142. Chic McGregor says:

    @Heedtracker, Helena

    Re the Hogarth cartoon.

    Scotland produces enough beef for every man, woman and child in Scotland to have a Birdseye original quarter pounder beef burger every day, if they wanted.

    England produces only enough for a quarter of said burger for its own people.

    Facts are chiels that winna ding but unionists can mak them spin.

  143. gus1940 says:

    Compare and contrast the love bombs that were directed at us in the run-up to 18/9 with the patronising hate bombs we have been subjected to since – culminating in last night’s disgraceful performance.

    Not only that but we had to put up with the time wasting fillibustering from Labour’s Allan, Wayne David (the true inheritor of the Welsh Windbag title) and that disgusting apology for a politician who went on about rough sleepers in Edinburgh.

    I have been fascinated by Sir Edward Leigh’s contributions both last night and in the earlier debates on the bill. I know he is against indy but he mostly talks sense.

    One bonus from last night was the discovery of the SNPs latest secret weapon. Not only did it not cost £167Billion – it didn’t cost a penny and it was gifted to us by the Tories for free – it’s called Costa.

    Given the patronising arrogance shown towards our 56 is it not time for the party to consider a walkout either as a one-off display of disgust or on a permanent or semi-permanent basis.

    If the 56 were to withdraw and spend all their time in their respective constituencies would they still be in receipt of their salaries and allowances?

    If not a 100% withdrawal perhap a small group of the best performers could remain prepared to walk out regularly every time Scotland is verbally p—-d upon.

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @Iain More says: 10 November, 2015 at 12:19 am:

    “I am going to mightily pissed off if the SNP don’t take the gloves off.”

    Ach! Iain. Listen to yourself for a moment.

    You are demonstrating that the SNP, as a party, are doing exactly the right thing in NOT taking the gloves off. If your own anger is reflected in just that small percentage of the Scottish electorate who swither on how to vote then they are winning the battle at Westminster.

    If they take the gloves off, and lower themselves to the gutter, where the rest of Westminster is now, they will be viewed as having become another part of, “The Establishment”.

    That is, after all, exactly what has led Labour to the point of being what many now see as the Red Tory Party.

    Remember, Iain, Labour began as the party that fought the Establishment. How many times do you read here, “Kier Hardy would turn in his grave”? Let’s not join them in the Westminster gutter for gutters all end up in the same place – the sewer.

  145. Wullie B says:

    To hell with a referendum that the unionists can rig again, Tthe SNP should out to Declare UDI in their manifesto if a majority SNP MSPs are elected again in Holyrood, along with the Scottish majority of MPs representing England we would have a clear mandate, if Catalonia can do it so can we

  146. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 10 November, 2015 at 12:48 am:

    “Yes. I agree with all posters. Tonight that place declared war on Scotland. So be it.”

    Nah! Bob Mack, They have been doing that since long before the Union of the Parliaments. You just didn’t notice it is all.

  147. gus1940 says:

    Re an SNP walkout from WM perhaps Angus Robertson could adopt the tactic used by the 1974 Lions in SA and utter the equivalent of a 99Call.

  148. dakk says:

    I don’t need to watch any of it.

    I’ve known for my entire adult life the disdain the ‘British’ state and Scottish unionists have for the Scottish nation.

    The only thing that’s changed is with the internet,an increasing number of people in Scotland are becoming aware of this imperialist disdain.

    Let’s keep up the good fight.

    We will repatriate power to the people of Scotland, even if it is bit by bit.

  149. AndyH says:

    @ Big Jock


    Tick tock goes the Union clock.

  150. Swami Backverandah says:

    I’ve read a suggestion that it may be that the WM UKOK Parties will offer Scotland FFA in the next election.

    Labour want a commission on it (voted down last night).

    The rhetoric of the print ‘Vow’ being delivered distracts from the rhetoric of Brown and the ‘as close to Home Rule’ as possible as the ‘Vow’ is very non-specific.

    The real question is whether the Scotland Bill fulfills the promises of Smith, but UKOK Parties don’t want it to at the moment for many reasons, not least of which they can offer FFA in 2020.

    If not, and FFA is offered UKOK Parties manifestos in 2020, will the Scots vote for it?

    SNP will have to go to 2020 with Independence Referendum in their manifesto in order to counter.

    If any UKOK Party wins the 2020 election on a manifesto which includes a promise of FFA, even if Scots return 59 SNP MP’s would it trigger calls for a referendum?

  151. Ian Sanderson says:

    While Graham Allen (Labour) made some good points about devolution, and this may have been the place for him to say them, it certainly was NOT THE TIME..! He seems to think the UK already has a Federal govt. as well!

  152. Gary45% says:

    I know we are nowhere near the travesty that is being taken out on the people of Palestine.
    But I am starting to believe Westminster is acting like Israel, and treating Scotland like Palestine, they will rob Scotland of everything they can, and expect us to come with the begging bowl.
    It is high time we, say enough is enough.
    Westminster say we will not have the decision to call another Indy Ref, well FU*K THEM.
    WE will decide.

  153. Muscleguy says:

    I hope Tommy Shepherd’s notice to the Government that this was not over means the SNP will reject the Bill. I will be disappointed if they accept it in its current form.

    I expect to be disappointed though. Scotland needs more radical voices in our parliament.

  154. bookie from hell says:

    If Duncan Hothersall writes this the day after Scotland Bill,many in Scottish Labour will have a hard time defending it.

    The other half of the rage was cleverly fomented by the suggestion that by voting against the complete devolution of tax credits, Westminster was imposing Tory policy on Scotland. This claim requires some dissection.

    The SNP know that with the advent of Universal Credit it would be pretty much impossible to devolve tax credits without devolving the entirety of out-of-work and income-based benefits too. And that would mean the assignation of a level of tax revenues and spending to Scotland that takes us into Full Fiscal Autonomy territory.

  155. @gerry parker than at 8:34 am

    I agree writing letters to your local newspapers is a good way of getting information out to the general public.

    As you have suggested not only keep the letter polite and factual, but I would also add keep it short say 80 to 100 words.

    It makes it readable than having to read through a long diatribe and there also less chance of them being edited.

  156. No no no...Yes says:

    I’ve just about had time to calm down. The SNP MPs did a sterling job in an extremely hostile environment and are to be congratulated for their patience and restraint, especially when Mundell and his twin Murray were speaking from the same script. Better Together may still be alive but the Union is on borrowed time.

    Apart from the democratic deficit that is the sinkhole of Westminster, the telling thing for me was how UK Labour voted. It was clear they wanted to back up McDonnell’s new mantra that “The SNP is the real enemy.” The parliamentary party has only their interests at heart and it didn’t matter to them that they were killing off Kez’s Branch office campaign for next year.

    UK Labour shafted Scotland and the Branch office will pay a heavy price at the Holyrood elections. A vote for SNP 1 and 2 will maximise the impact rather than a “mixed” YES parties majority.

    Corbyn also needs to explain on his next visit to Scotland why his MPs were whipped to vote as they did.

    Tough times ahead thanks to Mundell and Murray, but they have fuelled us with greater determination to get out there and convert these NO voters to YES.

  157. Pam McMahon says:


    Sinn Fein MPs have always refused to take their seats at Westminster, and don’t recognise it as a legitimate institution.

    It is the Big Top for the circus of UK democracy, where the clowns appear to be the only act.

  158. Greg says:

    Jeremy Vine asking what we make of the SNP having a role in what happens in England and Wales. Anyone want to enlighten him?!

  159. Phronesis says:

    UKOK now a despotic rule- arrogant displays of dissonant harmony-a union of all those opposed to Scotland’s well-being cooperating to undermine progress in a sovereign nation’s right to be in charge of its own affairs (if England’s regions want more devolution -excellent- but that’s nothing to do with debating the Scotland Bill.Who exactly is breaking up Great Britain? a UKOK MP is geologically challenged).

    This is a WM elite that is perpetually focused on creating ideological outgroups to manipulate the principles of democracy and create diversions from passing toxic legislation. Scotland is the biggest ideological out group of them all.

    Marx talks about workers losing their freedom ‘in the service of greed’ and being ‘depressed spiritually and physically to the condition of a machine’.Unfortunately for UKOK the ‘debate’ last night will re-boot the YES movement machinery, that uplifting positive grassroots movement that is well -educated,understands deliberative politics and will move towards its inevitable destination.

    We should vote down the Scotland Bill in Holyrood and remove our MPs from WM-discussions of national matters between the 2 parliaments can be conducted by email or Skype- it would be just as meaningful, would save a lot air time in the WM political pantomime and Scotland can get on with the business of running Scotland.

  160. Petra says:

    @ Sandra Stewart says at 7:00 am ”Campaign of civil disobedience anyone? …………….. ”

    I think that’s exactly what Westminster and the Unionists want us to do now. To get US to prove THEIR nefarious view of us … of the SNP / Independence movement to rUK / rest of the World. Don’t fall into the trap.

    What’s happened doesn’t come as a surprise. We’ve always known what they think of us. How they’ve treated us (over centuries now). We also know that we’ll get no help from the CorpMedia. We’ll have to carry on doing what we do best and that’s getting out there knocking on doors and standing at stalls.

    Every local SNP group should put together posters and banners that state clearly what’s happening such as ‘The Vow hasn’t been fulfilled’, ‘Westminster hold control of over 70% of Scottish tax and 85% of Scottish welfare’, ‘Labour has voted with the Tories against having child and working tax credits being devolved to the Scottish Government’, ‘Tories determined to destroy Scotland’, ‘Scottish Parliament not permanent’ etc etc.

    Stu put together the wee blue book. What about putting together a leaflet that outlines exactly what’s happening in plain English? We’ll then distribute it all over Scotland. Also hoping that Nicola et al will come up with something to get the word out there too.

    Keep writing / emailing / phoning in to the BBC, STV, and so on, complaints departments.

    If you haven’t done so already join the SNP. Rising membership will send a clear message to Westminster better still SLab.

    When the final draft of the Scotland Bill is drawn up and the SNP are sure it’s going to lead to economic and social disaster for Scotland they should refuse to accept it. If they get no backing from Labour in Scotland they should stand down and let Kezia Dugdale, Jackie Baillie et al get on with running the country / implementing what (little) they have demanded / voted for from day one.

    By the way does anyone have any idea of how many amendments to the Scotland Bill were put forward by the SNP, what they related to, how many were rejected and how many were accepted?

    As to whether we can have another Referendum or not. Joan MacAlpine has already pointed out that ”What should be in no doubt is our right to decide. That’s why David Cameron made a huge political error this week (a few months ago) when he said he would not allow one to take place. He said the vote had to be “legitimate”. What he means is his government would consider a referendum called and organised by the Scottish Parliament to be illegitimate. He would refuse to recognise its legality ……

    Hard legal facts … the UN have several declarations we can turn to.

    The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) both say: “All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”

    David Cameron has acknowledged Scotland as a nation – so he can hardly turn round and deny us the right to self-determination as defined by the UN.”

  161. Les Wilson says:

    Ian Sanderson says:

    Sorry, his input was simply a time wasting excercise, with which he was allowed to continue. This was about labour council strategies in Scotland to attempt to derail the SNP by the back door. Nothing to do with the agenda of the day.

    Time wasting by the other labour MP’s in order to reduce debate time, also allowed.

  162. Patrick Early says:

    I seriously wish that the SNP would reject this disgraceful fob off and tell westminster to deliver what was promised OR we will put it directly to the people of scitland in the form of a second referendum and the people will decide if this bill goes anywhere what they believed they were voting for. I IMAGINE THEY ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER

  163. Les Wilson says:

    Petra says:

    Good post Petra.

  164. Nana says:


    Alistair Carmichael admits in court that he made a “calculated” attempt to mislead Cabinet Office leak inquiry

  165. Nana says:


    Well said. Let’s keep calm & carry on. Any rash decisions will only reflect badly on our mps. If they can maintain their dignity then so must we.

  166. Bob says:

    Is it time for Holyrood to seize control of the Scottish regiments, and how would that pan out?

  167. SOG says:

    As one who is new to this, and an outsider, I wonder how this will be received by the remaining Tory and Lab voters in Scotland?

  168. I have said it before as long as you play by their rules you will never win they will make sure of it you will have to break their rules to win and always remember the best means of defence is attack not sitting on your hands it puts me in mind of the words in the song Nice guys get washed away like the snow in the rain?

  169. Fairliered says:

    Have you commissioned a Panelbase survey, Rev?
    If so, good timing!

  170. Jim McIntosh says:

    @Robert Peffers

    “You are demonstrating that the SNP, as a party, are doing exactly the right thing in NOT taking the gloves off.”

    Sorry, but you’re wrong Robert. Why do think there was little involvement in politics before the referendum? It was because people thought their opinion/vote didn’t matter. I believe the next 6 years is going to define Scotland for the next hundred years.

    As Charlie and Craig sang “what do you do when democracy’s all through?”. If the SNP don’t do something radical people will switch off and stop voting. I’m not talking about the people on this site, I’m talking about the other 1.3M who voted YES and the 2M who voted NO. We need them to stay engaged in the argument, else how do we change their minds.

    The unionists are using “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” tactic in their mission to destroy the SNP over the next 6 years and the Scottish Bill was part of the assault with so many traps in it. They will do anything they can to get back to the comfortable position of us having only two options; Labour or Conservative.

    The electorate need to see see what’s happening, and the limitations the SG are under. They aren’t getting that from the current broadcasters. The minimum we need the SNP to do in 2016 is get broadcasting devolved. It has to be one of the main points in their manifesto.

    In the interim, I think the SNP treat the media with a respect they don’t deserve and we have to be more forthright in our dealings with them. Walking out of interviews when they start haranguing MP/MSPs would be a start. Suing newspapers for defamation when lies are printed.

    We have to get on the front foot or we WILL lose this.

  171. Mike Fenwick says:

    Copied over from my post on “A Matter of Rights”.

    This is the e-mail I have just issued to the Scottish Affairs Committee – my hope is that, rather than just express anger and disappointment, posters on here might feel inclined to follow suit …

    scotaffcom [at] parliament [dot] uk

    Call for an inquiry by the Scottish Affairs Committee

    As an adult resident of Scotland, I ask that the Committee conduct an inquiry into the failure by David Mundell MP to reply in a satisfactory and fulsome manner to a question posed by Mhairi Black MP during the passage of the Scotland Bill in Parliament yesterday, namely whether as Secretary of State for Scotland, on the issue of tax credits, he would pledge that the Tories wouldn’t treat any compensatory payments to victims of the cuts as income and claw it back to Westminster – leaving Holyrood hundreds of millions out of pocket but the victims no better off.

    This is a matter of genuine and significant concern to many in Scotland.

    Hansard will record the manner in which David Mundell MP chose to answer the question posed by Mhairi Black MP, and it will be for the Scottish Affairs Committee to decide whether the reply given by the Secretary of State for Scotland was clear, unambiguous, and therefore sufficient to allay the fears of many in Scotland on this issue. Should the Committee decide that it was not, I believe it provides more than sufficient and reasonable grounds for the Committee to conduct the inquiry requested.

    Whilst rarely used, I understand that any witness called before the Committee may be required to answer questions under oath, and be subject to the law of perjury.

    I await a response.

    Mike Fenwick …

  172. X_Sticks says:

    @Sandra Stewart

    “Campaign of civil disobedience anyone?”

    Right now non payment of the bbc licence fee and joining the SNP is sufficient I think. They both send a message to the powers that be.


    Aye, 56 it is as I said, I did bracket my qualification to that before any of the idiotic tame troll pedants tried to rubbish the post. I am nursing my wrath, have been for a long, long time now. I have a feeling my nursing duties may be over sooner than I thought 😀

  173. Wullie B says:

    A call to arms is needed if we keep being treated worse than what we step in by Westminster,

  174. Robert Peffers says:

    @Les Wilson says: 10 November, 2015 at 10:06 am:

    “I feel the pain of our MP’s having to put up with they what they, and the people of Scotland have just been subject too.If anyone doubted our place in things, we certainly know now with that undemocratic Westminster disgrace.”

    Here’s a thing, Les. We so often see the likes of the so arrogant Cameron strutting the World stage acting as a big player in the game. Like all of his ilk he often makes grossly inaccurate claims such as, “Britain”, doing this that or the other and, “Britain Punching above her weight”.

    Truth, though, is somewhat different, for Cameron, the pig fancier, has no authority to speak for Britain.

    He isn’t even the Prime Minister of The United Kingdom for that title also tells us that the government he heads is that of a Kingdom and a Kingdom is neither a country nor a state. It is exactly what it says it is, the realm of a monarch. This is, by itself, a lie.

    The actual, “United Kingdom”, of Elizabeth includes her protectorates of Jersey, Guernsey and Man but these are not part of the government headed by Cameron. So first there are four non-UK Government components of, “Britain”, including the Republic of Ireland. Secondly that title describes what is actually legally, “Her Majesty’s”, United Kingdom Government. It is not all of Britain and it is not Cameron’s.

    It is legally Her Majesty’s. As are it’s component parts such as, “Her Majesty’s Treasury”, et al. Cameron speaks only for Her Majesty’s Parliament of her United Kingdom Government. It does not include the republic nor Her Majesty’s Crown Dependencies.

    Next up we must define, “The United Kingdom”, and that is a bi-partite union of only her Kingdom of Scotland and her Kingdom of England as both Wales and Ireland came in on the coat tails of her Kingdom of England in respectively, 1284 and 1542.

    So just what is it that allows Her Majesty’s United Kingdom Government to, “Punch above its weight”?.

    The answer is without any doubt, SCOTLAND”.

    That is why the likes of Cameron will never willingly allow Scotland to be other than a subsidiary of England. Without Scotland the British Bulldog has rubber teeth and is no more than a USAsian lapdog.

    Without Scots wealth, energy and other natural resources the Kingdom of England, (a bipartite union’s Status Quo Ante is the two original kingdoms), will have to assume her proper place in the World’s power games as a tiny, toothless powerless nation in debt to everyone and his dug.

  175. mumsyhugs says:

    Have just checked the BBC (spit!) red button news ‘service’ – and there is not a single mention on either the national or Scottish headlines!!! It’s like last night never happened!

  176. Clarinda says:

    Anyone else needing a new passport will be thrilled at the inclusion of so much “innovation, architecture, art and performance that the UK has brought to the world.” Scotland has obviously been a little tardy without a single person of note and just the Edinburgh Festival and the Falkirk Wheel to illustrate our paltry innovative output compared with virtually all other numerous examples being from ……. yes, you guessed correctly … the imperial bit of the UK.

    Perhaps I’m becoming increasingly pejorative – but I am becoming increasingly exasperated, angry and amazed by how we in Scotland continue to show such reserve while we wait for the critical mass of rational and sufficient evidence to enable Scotland to grasp Independence.

    As others have said – what else did we expect from yesterday’s WM ‘Show (Scottish) Bill’ travesty. Five hours of contempt.

  177. Les Wilson says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    Thanks for that bit of accuracy Robert, I concur with your thoughts.

    I cannot remove my thought of a scorched earth policy from the Unionists. Everything of practical use to Scotland must be removed to enhance their known game.

    However, nations all over this earth and from time imimmorial have found way to throw off parasite states that have scourged them. we need to find a way.

    I commented on another post, about the People of Scotland being sovereign. If this was legally proved, would that not open the door for all sorts of problems for the Unionists?

  178. Glamaig says:

    Hard though it is to take, I think the SNP policy of being ‘nice’, measured and restrained, is the correct one. It makes them look reasonable and makes the Unionists look more and more barking by comparison.

    We already have most radical minded folk on board, I think. We need to persuade more of the mainstream and we wont do that by doing radical stuff. We need to quietly state our case and meanwhile the UK Establishment will get get more and more frothing and mad as they try to provoke us.

  179. Petra says:

    @ Jim McIntosh says at 12:47 pm ….. ”The electorate need to see see what’s happening, and the limitations the SG are under. They aren’t getting that from the current broadcasters. The minimum we need the SNP to do in 2016 is get broadcasting devolved. It has to be one of the main points in their manifesto.”

    I thought that Westminster had already voted against broadcasting being devolved to Scotland Jim. Maybe someone on here can shed some light on that?


    ”In the interim, I think the SNP treat the media with a respect they don’t deserve and we have to be more forthright in our dealings with them ……. Suing newspapers for defamation when lies are printed.”

    Totally agree with this Jim. The SNP have a plethora of CorpMedia lies and libel to choose from. They should focus on one newspaper and take them to the cleaners. If they did so, successfully, that would send out a clear message to the others. It would also afford them the opportunity (publicity) to get the truth ‘out there’.

  180. stelvin says:


    nearly only 40 hours to go for G.A.Ponsonby’s documentary fundraiser to end

    ^^ definitely worth chucking in a tenner at least for this one folks! we need all the help we can get when it comes to opening the eyes of people who voted no to the full on hardcore propaganda that they are blind to noticing

    the analogy of a fish in water oblivious to the water seems appropriate, or perhaps the tendency of the mind to zone out the ticking of a clock after a long enough period of time.

    There are still plenty of those who have become incapable of looking past their own filters and seeing the bias and agenda for what it is full on, a documentary put forward in a professional manner could be very helpful in opening those eyes.

    Will try to get something more relevant to topic at a future date said…

    In the meantime, keep the heid people! relax! we all knew the circus was going to do this. It really is no surprise to those who have decided that they would rather be informed from a wider source of information about the facts and happenings of their political reality that it was going to be a complete mess of a show.

    Instead embrace and be grateful for the absurd and flagrant nature of the situation, the more blatant and off topic the better for us when it comes to communicating to those who didn’t believe us during the referendum!

  181. Nana says:

    @Mike Fenwick

    Surprised no one has replied to your posts.

    I will email my mp later today and ask for his thoughts on what you have said in your email.

    Regards your comment on Pete Wishart and scottish affairs committee, he has a blog where you could direct this question.

    I am curious as to why indeed with evel there should be anything other than Scottish affairs of concern to that committee and indeed why there should be any mps other than Scottish on said committee.

    Also wonder if questions should be directed to the Scotgov Devolution/ further powers committee.

  182. Chic McGregor says:

    Labour ‘Hame’?

    Is there not an ‘S’ missing there?

  183. Breeks says:

    There is nothing rash or inflammatory about holding a plebiscite. There is due cause, since the Nation is divided over its sovereignty, and equally divided about what “more powers” we’re or weren’t pledged or delivered.
    Clear up the issue. Let the people decide.
    Ask the Scottish electorate to decide which issues are delegated to London, and which powers are retained by the Scottish government.

    Let our democracy stand stronger than the Westminster house of cards.

    Were Nicola Sturgeon to announce plans for such a plebiscite, you would see Westminster shaken to its foundations. How could they refuse?

    Now is the time. We stand at the watershed. If this window of opportunity is allowed to pass, then such a plebiscite will not be perceived as strength, but last gasp desperation.

  184. Jim McIntosh says:


    “I thought that Westminster had already voted against broadcasting being devolved to Scotland Jim.”

    You’re probably correct Petra, but if the SNP put the creation of a separate Scottish Broadcasting Company as one of the main planks of their manifesto, and end up with a sizeable majority, it would surely have to be devolved as there could be no reason for WM to continue reserving broadcasting other than for purely political reasons.

    Everyone in Scotland would see that. The BBC would then be seen here, and around the world, for what it is, a state broadcaster.

  185. Jack Murphy says:

    The Scotland Bill. House of Commons,yesterday the 9th. November 2015.
    Parliament TV. Archived.
    The Bill now goes at some time in the future, to the House of Unelected Barons and Baronesses,[including approx 100 LibDems!!!] for approval,amendments or whatever.
    Begins approx at 16:52:23 with an intro by oor Secretary of State for Scotland Mr F Mundell MP.
    Debate lasts just a few hours,but I’d recommend viewing Tommy Sheppard’s MP Edinburgh East speech at 18:12:57.
    Just click on the relevant times in the right hand scroll.

  186. Mike Fenwick says:

    @ nana … you responded, and I thank you.

    Maybe, I won’t receive any response from the Scottish Affairs Committee.

    Maybe, I will receive a response but it will tell me that my request for an inquiry is not be taken up.

    Maybe, I will receive a response that tells me that an inquiry will be started, that David Mundell MP will be required by the Committee to appear before them, and reply to the question asked by Mhairi Black MP – under oath, all of which is within the Parliamentary competence of the Committee.

    We shall see …

  187. Scots Wa Hey says:

    I too sat and watched the utter contempt with which Scotland was treated watching lab and Tory work like a tag team Ian Murray only taking offence at the claim Gordon Brown had failed he sat and sneered and at one time was briefed by Yvette Cooper so much for Automoney
    Sadly one quick troll around Unionist sites and they love it they genuinely want Scotland impoverished why BT were allowed to claim a No vote was patriotic is for me one of the yes movements greatest failures to have allowed that ground to have been taken when a No vote voted Scotland out of Existence and that should have been rammed home by removal of national teams and all the other kiddie on bits of nation hood

  188. Brian says:

    Keep the Graham Allen piece. If anyone asks you to define patronising, you can show them that video.

  189. Nana says:

    @Mike Fenwick

    Keep us informed of any replies you may receive. At least you will have tried!

  190. Jack Murphy says:

    Petra said at 2:21am 10 November
    When you get the time take a look at Craig Murrays latest blog re. Jim Murphy.”

    Here’s a link to Mr Murray’s article on Jim Murphy’s recent appointment.

  191. donald anderson says:

    How’s this for cheek? Worth a counter demo?


    At #ScotLab15 we announced that we will use new powers coming to the Scottish Parliament to restore the money lost through tax credits the Tories want to cut.
    The SNP would rather cut tax for business class flights – find out more here.
    Find out more with this video.
    On Saturday 14th of November we will be taking to the streets to campaign against the Tory Government’s tax credit cut which will affect up to 350,000 families in Scotland – leaving them £1,300 worse off on average.
    We have produced a range of resources, available in our campaign pack, to help you campaign in your area.
    Central Scotland:
    Cumbernauld & Kilsyth, Cumbernauld College – 11am – 1pm
    East Kilbride, East Kilbride Bus Station – 12pm – 2pm
    Falkirk, Falkirk High Street – 1pm – 3pm
    Hamilton & Larkhall & Stonehouse, Duke Street, Hamilton – 12pm – 2pm
    Motherwell & Wishaw, Brandon Parade – 11am – 1pm
    Uddingston & Bellshill, Bellshill Main Street – 11am – 1pm
    Larkhall, Co-op in Union Street – 12pm – 1.30pm
    Glasgow Anniesland, Anniesland Cross – 11am – 1pm
    Glasgow Provan, The Shandwick Centre, Easterhouse – 10.30am – 12pm
    Rutherglen, ASDA, Blantyre – 10.30am – 12.30pm
    Glasgow Shettleston, Forge, Parkhead – 11am – 1pm
    Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn, Maryhill Tesco Car Park – 11am – 1pm
    Glasgow Kelvin, corner of University Avenue/Byres Road – 11am – 1pm
    Glasgow Pollok, Govan Cross – 11am – 1pm
    Glasgow Southside, outside Lidl, Victoria Road Govanhill – 11am – 1pm
    Highlands & Islands:
    Inverness and Nairn – High Street, Inverness – 11am
    Edinburgh Central, corner of Minto Street/Salisbury Road – 11am – 1pm
    Edinburgh Eastern, Portobello Town Hall – 10am – 1pm
    Edinburgh Western, Corstorphine, St Johns Road (outside ScotMid) – 11am – 1pm
    Edinburgh Northern & Leith, Kirkgate – 11am – 1pm
    Edinburgh Southern, Brunstfield Place (outside Nardinis) – 10.30am – 12.30pm
    Linlithgow, Bathgate Precinct (across from Clydesdale Bank) – 11am
    Midlothian North & Musselburgh, Dalkeith High Street – 11am – 1pm
    Mid-Scotland & Fife:
    Clackmannanshire & Dunblane, Alloa High Street – 10am – 12pm
    Cowdenbeath, High Street – 1pm – 3pm
    North East Scotland:
    Aberdeen, outside St Nicholas Shopping Centre (M&S) – 11am
    Aberdeenshire West, Westhill Shopping Centre – 11am
    Dundee East & West, Dragon Statue, High Street – 12-2pm
    Arbroath, Arbroath High Street – 11am
    South Scotland:
    Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, outside Cumnock Shopping Centre, Maybole (outside the Co-op) – 10:30am
    Clydesdale, Lanark Tolbooth, – 11am – 1pm
    East Lothian, Dunbar High Street – 10am – 1pm
    Galasheils, Market Square, – 11am – 1:30pm
    Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley, Kilmarnock Cross – 10 am
    West Scotland:

    Dumbarton, High Street, Dumbarton – 11am
    Greenock and Inverclyde, West Blackhall Street, Greenock – 12noon
    Renfrewshire South, High Street, Barrhead – 11am
    Eastwood, Busby Road, Clarkston (meeting outside Tesco) – 11am
    Thornliebank, Main Street, (meeting outside Greggs) – 12pm
    – See more at:

  192. Mike Fenwick says:

    @ nana … happy to say I have now received a reply, unhappy to say it appears I have been blocked/banned on here and thus from telling you or anyone else of its contents???

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