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A matter of rights

Posted on November 09, 2015 by

The tiny number of people who watch the BBC Parliament channel is undoubtedly a blessing to the parties of the Union. We’ll be bringing you some eye-opening excerpts from today’s Scotland Bill debate later, but as a taster here’s one brief exchange.

Alberto Costa, the Scottish-born Conservative MP for South Leicestershire (of whom we’ll be seeing much more in a bit), is heard loudly expressing his satisfaction that not a single Scottish MP of any party (nor indeed any from Wales or Northern Ireland) has been permitted to sit on the Joint Committee discussing the government’s plan to scrap the Human Rights Act, although six unelected peers do get places.

When challenged, Costa explains that he’s happy about it because it’s a matter reserved to the “United Kingdom Parliament”. The fact that he apparently doesn’t consider any Scottish members elected to that parliament to have any business with its affairs is perhaps rather more revealing than Mr Costa intended it to be.

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  1. 09 11 15 21:43

    A matter of rights | Speymouth

  2. 10 11 15 11:41

    A matter of rights | Politics Scotland | Scoop...

  3. 31 12 15 16:21

    Resolutions for 2016 | A Wilderness of Peace

122 to “A matter of rights”

  1. David Agnew says:

    I could write something more heartfelt and deeper – but honestly.
    What a cunt.

    His party are nothing more than a shit on the heel of Scotland’s shoe – time we scraped it off.

  2. heedtracker says:

    And so it begins. English only decide Scotland’s Human Rights in UKOK world. What next?

  3. Paula Rose says:

    (shush we’re watching the debate)

  4. Mike Fenwick says:

    A few weeks ago, on Bella, (Article title – “Tick Tock”) – I raised the question of the 7 MPs who sit on the Scottish Affairs committee, who were not elected in Scotland and have no Scottish constituents, this is a short extract from the posts involved:

    “… using They work for you Stats are the voting records of the 7 non Scottish MP’s on Scottish matters:

    Maggie Throup MP

    Consistently voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    John Stevenson MP

    Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    Daniel Poulter MP

    Consistently voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    Christopher Chope MP

    Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    Stephen Hepburn MP

    Generally voted for transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    Jim Cunningham MP

    Generally voted for transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    David Anderson MP

    Voted a mixture of for and against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament

    My starting point is that Pete Wishart and his fellow SNP MPs should never have allowed this situation from the beginning – but it is likely that the system of voting for Committee members precluded that (I don’t know) – but a firm marker should have been put down.

    As I said above, I believe the best (next) move is for Pete Wishart as Chair to ask (if not rule) that all those on the Committee who were not elected in Scotland and have no Scottish constituents, can remain (if they must) as observers only but take no active part in ny other proceedings of the Committee.”

    Extract ends.

    Why has that happened – why is it being allowed to continue?

  5. call me dave says:

    I’ve been watching it all unfold and at first I was angry at the stalling tactics and the speeches from Allan; Leigh and Costa but after a while the SNP members started to get their views across in the face of a tirade of abuse directed at them and Scotland.

    However the vilest input was from Ian Austin Labour who must get the vote as the person who boosted the SNP ratings in Scotland and it’s a pity that it could not be shown in every secondary school and town centre in Scotland on a continuous loop.


    In spite of being in poor health recently this has galvanised me a bit and I’m hanging in there until the Indy 2 ref.

    Our lot did well and made many good points, people watching all over the UK tonight will see that. Many will envy us our MPs.

    2 X SNP at the election. That’s a start.

  6. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I think we’re moving towards the ‘tipping point’ where the SNP MP’s will decline to sit in the House of Commons (because they are disregarded bvy the Unionists), whilst still representing their constituents at the UK level, on UK matters.

    THE UK government is playing a dangerous game, constitutionally typing.

    Well, Hell mend ’em.

  7. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I think we’re moving towards the ‘tipping point’ where the SNP MP’s will decline to sit in the House of Commons (because they are disregarded by the Unionists), whilst still representing their constituents at the UK level, on UK matters.

    THE UK government is playing a dangerous game, constitutionally typing.

    Well, Hell mend ’em.

  8. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Apologies for the first of these two posts, with the typo…

    Delete at your leisure, Rev Stu.

  9. Macart says:

    The UK is comprised of ….

    Answers on a postcard please.

    Who knew?

  10. Swami Backverandah says:

    And this is why I disagree that we have to spend our time in the run up to the next Independence referendum in seeking to coddle, cajole, and convert previous No voters over to Independence.

    Five, and possibly more years of this, and they’ll be begging for it.

    We should impose a levy on them to allow them a Yes vote.

  11. Lesley-Anne says:

    “This honourable member is a lawyer of sorts!”

    Methinks Joanna Cherry QC has been taking lessons from Nicola Sturgeon on the best put down lines available. 😀

    So Alberto Costa … TELT!

  12. geeo says:

    The good news is that i do not need to watch this video, the bad news is, i already watched that pompous little oaf live. (ohh…no tv tax, geeo bad)

    What an utter farce of an excuse of what passes for a WM parliament ‘debate’

    My wife has absolutely no interest in politics (to my annoyance) but even she look up from her book and asked, “who is that wee arrogant git”?

    Enough said.

  13. Ken500 says:

    This will tip over 5% over the tipping point.

    It is just a matter of time. Vote every Unionist politician out in Scotland.

    Westminster is a disgrace

  14. john king says:

    Who is that idiot/
    A reconstructed Jimmy Hood?
    Or Ian Davidson?

  15. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @Macart says:
    9 November, 2015 at 8:18 pm
    The UK is comprised of ….

    Answers on a postcard please.

    Who knew?

    Check your new Passport. We are not there except on cover.

  16. mealer says:

    It should be noted that Alberto Costa stood for the Tories in Angus in 2010,where he was soundly threshed by the hardworking and very capable Mike Weir,SNP.

  17. Lesley-Anne says:

    I knew the *ahem* honourable member Alberto Costa reminded me of something! 😉

  18. craig sheridan says:

    As part of the UK Scotland are locked out of the democratic process. Every trick in the book is used against us to do this. Anyone who still thinks we are Better Together is simply not listening or has a duplicitous Unionist agenda.

    Personally, I think it’s time to use every trick in the book against the Union. I’m sure we all have a few ideas, all legal, peaceful and effective.

    The point here is that we play too nice and while we may win an argument, nothing changes and its change that’s required.

  19. jimnarlene says:

    What is it, that makes a man hate his own country, and become a vassal for another?

  20. Sinky says:

    One third of the 10 Labour MPs present speak against devolving Abortion to Scottish Parliament

  21. Macart says:


    Yep, clocked that.

    Creative Britain don’tchaknow.

    Creative and apparently highly selective, not to mention exclusive and ignorant.

  22. yerkitbreeks says:

    Yep. I watched that exchange. He was described by SNP MP as ” a lawyer of sorts “. Although clearly sounding very Scottish I had the impression he retained little love for his country of birth – maybe this is the Tory effect of Mammon worship.

    Sad to see the Amendments to the Scotland Bill get voted down ( as at 19.45 )

  23. Helpmaboab says:

    As a longstanding supporter of independence Costa’s position doesn’t surprise me. Hardline unionists view Scotland as a possession to be used for the benefit of the British state and its ruling elite. The opinions of the Scottish people are irrelevant.

    Yet there are still many Scots who imagine themselves to be “partners” in a “family of nations.” They believe, in spite of all the evidence, that the UK will take care them.

    The only Scots who will be “taken care of” under the current system are enthusiastic Britons like Alberto Costa MP, Conservative, South Leicestershire…

  24. msean says:

    Scottish Tory for English seat,must not be wanted in Scotland.

  25. Dave the squirrel says:

    Hahaha! What a little shit. Bet he doesn’t cut about with any less than 10 pals at night.
    Definitely laughed at all the bully’s jokes at school cause he’d get battered if not.

  26. Ken MacColl says:

    Yet another failed Scots Tory, given the bum’s rush by his compatriots, finding a safe refuge “dan south”

  27. FiferJP says:

    What’s sauce for the goose …

    I was just thinking it would have been interesting if the Scotland bill had been deemed Scotland only and therefore eligible for Scottish MPs to vote on and not English MPS. I would argue it is a bill that affects Scotland only.

    If Westminster can define some bills as being England only for only English MPs to vote on then surely the SNP can press for some bills to be defined as Scotland only for only Scottish MPs to vote on? (Ditto Wales.)

    Bit late for this car crash I know.

    Logical idea or mental idea?

  28. Morag says:

    He doesn’t say “British parliament”, Stu. He says “United Kingdom parliament”. Which makes it even more inexplicable.

  29. sinky says:

    No Lib Dems in House of Commons yet locally claiming Michelle Thomson not fulfilling her duties.

  30. scott says:

    I watched this for a while but as I can’t afford a new tv at the moment had to switch it off,I just can’t believe that Scots of Lab and Tories can be so nasty to us the people of Scotland.
    SNP vote yes yes come May

  31. JLT says:

    The Tories (and probably half of Labour) are playing a very dangerous game here …a game that has been played before, and through sheer arrogance and blind foolishness, it cost Britain it’s greatest assets in the 13 colonies of America. What happened in the run-up to the eventual ‘Wars of Independence’ stemmed from the American colonists taking a stand against Westminster policies. Their argument was:

    ‘No taxation without Representation’

    Now, there are parallels happening literally every week in Parliament whenever Scottish MP’s stand up to state a point of view …and get drowned down in a plethora of abuse. This also happened prior to 1776.

    Benjamin Franklin, one of the greatest Americans never to be President, was called over from the States in January 1766 by the House of Commons, and asked to give oral testimony over the protestation and what was happening in the colonies.

    Franklin’s examination before a Committee of the Whole House in the Commons lasted four hours, where he answered a staggering 174 questions.

    174 Questions over 4 hours!

    That’s what we are up against. These b******* who sit within the Unionist Parties, or within the Lords are berating our own MP’s …just as they once did by intimidating, bullying and berating Benjamin Franklin over what the ‘British colonists’ were protesting at, and literally, how dare they protest against King and Country.

    We are now getting that too.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s promises made about new powers, tax credits, nuclear submarines, or even what shade of blue is used in the Union Jack …we are being openly condemned; made to feel completely unwelcome; and treated with sheer and utter contempt.

    Well …the British in the 13 Colonies did something about it; they became Americans. Westminster keeps insinuating through the media and various imagery, that we north of the Border are ‘British’ …well, through their arrogance, contempt and continual berating of the Scots, it makes you wonder just how long it will be before way more than half of Scotland also decide, that it doesn’t want to be ‘British’ anymore?

    Losing the 13 colonies was a financial catastrophe for England as well as a massive loss of face in the world. Losing Scotland while they are £1.6 trillion in debt, possibly exiting the richest financial zone in the world and 4 nuclear submarines on the way with no place to park them …might be another disaster on an epic scale just awaiting to happen…

  32. john king says:

    I wonder how that obsequious twerp is regarded by his constituents when he is so clearly happy to denounce the country of his birth like that, I know if I had an English MP who so clearly disrespected England I would think him a toerag not worthy of anyone’s respect.

  33. Capella says:

    So glad you are doing edited highlights. I’ve sat through the dreadful experience up to now but am losing the will although Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan SNP)is on now on Crown Estate devolution.

  34. Macart says:

    The Rev is right. Only a tiny number of folks pay any attention to parliamentary TV.

    Get posting this link wherever you can and any other snippet of vid that appears. FB, Twitter, blogs, anywhere and everywhere.

    Let’s show people just how their representatives, their wishes and their mandate are treated and regarded by that hoose on the Thames.

  35. Bill Hume says:

    Fellow ‘Wingers, why are you so angry? Did you not expect this manipulation in the House of Commons? It is simply an indication of the fear which Scotland has loosed upon the charade, nay chimera of democracy, which passes for true democracy in the United Kingdom.

    Let us all be like Joanna Cherry and face them down at every opportunity. Let us do it with her dignity and barbed wit.

    Anger will win us nothing. Logic and an unfliching purpose, can and shall, win the day.

  36. msean says:

    Looks like there are also more Scottish Labour MPs for English seats than for Scots. With one Scottish Labour MP,the tail is trying to wag the dog.

  37. Grouse Beater says:

    The deliberately toothless Bill now getting unburdened of its gums will be debated in the House of Lords …

    … not a single SNP member sits in the House of Lords.

    Let no one argue the House of Gothic Horrors is the mother of all parliaments.

  38. thomaspotter2014 says:


    Your post is bang on the money JLT.

    What’s taking place now is not exactly unanticipated.

    It’ll only hasten the demise of that shithole Westminster.

    Patience is required.

    Though that is being sorely tested the end justifies the means i.e. Independence.

    Worth waiting a wee bit longer for.

    The real battles have still to come but not distracting your enemy when he’s making mistakes seems to be the way to go.

    And boy they’re making some serious fucking mistakes!

  39. Still Positive. says:

    Just googled Alberto Costa – seems he was a solicitor in the Treasury Dept.!

    Explains Joanna Cherry’s comment of “solicitor of sorts”.

  40. Robert Louis says:

    You know, the people of Scotland, by electing 56 SNP MP’s to represent Scotland in Westminster have done us all a big favour, and here’s why. Finally the Westminster parliament is being shown up for what it truly is, and always ever was, the ENGLISH Parliament.

    Those clowns like that anglicised, anti Scottish cringing gimp, Costa, tonight at Westminster, thought they were so clever, but instead they helped the cause of independence.

    Day by day, Scots are seeing Westminster for what it is. As that happens, the demand for independence will rise.

    As for the ‘Scotland bill’, I say, to hell with it.

  41. Les Wilson says:

    Yeah Costa is a weasel,but what also did not like ( many things of course) was the labour contingent.They were on a SNP bad, on everything.

    However they were up to more than that, with their amendment to devolve power to Councils. They see this strategy as a way to get back in power in Scotland by undermining the SG.

    Not sure it passed as they only gave numbers by the leader of the house. Besides I had long lost the will to live.

    This was repeated, with deliberately long length speeches, by at least 3 labour MP’s. They are still smarting with what happened to them in Scotland and hope the Tory vote will get them back on the ladder. We simply cannot trust ANY unionist party. They are all rats

  42. De Valera says:

    It never was a ‘union’, it was a takeover. The English Parliament got the jitters with the 1704 Act of Security,. We needed to be brought under control and we were, very effectively indeed as individuals such as the Rt Hon Alberto Costa demonstrate.

    A very good idea to rename George Square John Maclean Square.

    Maybe while we’re at it change Princes Street to James Connolly Street, that would certainly piss off the British not Scottish brigade.

  43. Ruby says:

    The people I feel sorry for are NO voters.

    They must feel really bad when they watch what happens at Westminster.

  44. galamcennalath says:

    A thought. Those Scots who sit in English seats, do they think their constituents will continue to want represented by them as events unfold? Even short of independence, all this anti Scottish rhetoric in the media, must make their positions a tad unstable?

    Perhaps that explains why they are behaving as we see.

  45. Robert Louis says:

    Hey Dugdale, if you’re reading this, your snivelling bunch of red tory MP’s at Westminster think Scots are too stupid to have control of abortion laws, but ironically, the English are just right to do it. THAT, in case you cannot see it, is a colonial mindset, the kind of thing London used to think and say about Nigerians, and Africans and even, yes, Americans.

    Do you think that is a vote winner come May next year?

    And you wonder why nobody votes for you, jeez, go take a look at the utterly insulting behaviour of your Yvette Cooper and Iain Murray. Patronising insulting gits.

  46. Free Scotland says:

    When it comes to influencing the debate on Scottish voting intentions, the Braveheart factor just met its match: the Alberto Costa factor.

  47. Les Wilson says:

    De Valera says:
    There is a lot of streets I would rename, one being Uion Street in Aberdeen. But we have reminders all over our land, including a good few hospitals.

  48. ScottieDog says:

    Watching the debate it is easy to see that the trap is being set for the Scottish government and the MSM will be compliant dishing out misinformation.
    Having powers to rearrange existing income (in decline) but not to generate more wealth is useless. This is why I think we have to be looking at alternative ways to trade using parallel currencies, alternative currencies and mutual credit systems.

  49. Macart says:

    Make no mistake, this is the end result of the referendum vote. What everyone reading and watching now must ask themselves a question (who didn’t vote yes on the day), is this what I was expecting?

    Don’t let the newspapers or the broadcast media tell you what you thought at the time, or tell you what to think right now. Look at the vids posted here and elsewhere (as they inevitably will be), hear it from the horses mouth as it were and have a damn good think.

  50. Still Positive. says:

    Sure I read that it was on Tony Blair’s insistence that abortion legislation was not devolved. Yvette Cooper and others still toeing the Labour Party line from way back.

  51. Training Day says:

    Yeah, but road signs..

  52. galamcennalath says:

    How could anyone watch these proceedings and vote NO?

    The real answer is that most NO voters will remain blissfully unaware of the way they are viewed from London and Scotland is treated by WM. For heaven’s sake, wake up and smell the shite!

    There needs to be a concerted educational effort!

  53. Ruby says:

    Robert Louis says:

    Do you think that is a vote winner come May next year?

    Ruby replies

    It seems they do! That is perhaps something we can thank the media for. The media tell them how great they are. Kezia no doubt believes all thanks to the medias response that her Tax Credit plan is the best thing since sliced bread.

    Perhaps it’s time to let them all just get on with it.

  54. Lesley-Anne says:

    Still Positive. says:
    9 November, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    Just googled Alberto Costa – seems he was a solicitor in the Treasury Dept.!

    Explains Joanna Cherry’s comment of “solicitor of sorts”.

    I seem to remember SP that during the referendum there was a wee bit of a stooshie brewed up because the TREASURY civil servants were briefing the unionist media AGAINST S******h independence.

    As Mr. corneto was/is a solicitor in the Treasury department might he have been involved in the anti independence briefing papers I wonder? 😉

  55. Petra says:

    All SNP MSPS have been excluded, including Joanna Cherry QC, from taking a place on the Human Rights Joint Committee which will include (focus on) discussion of repealing the Human Rights Act. The outcome of which will ultimately impact on every Scot: yes and no voters.

    Six unelected peers hold places as do four Tories and two Labour MPs, including former deputy leader Harriet Harman (of PIE notoriety).

    Westminsters ‘excuse’ for excluding Joanna Cherry, SNP’s justice and home affairs spokeswoman, is that an SNP MP would only be invited onto the body if seven MPs were needed. We know that this is a pathetic farce of an excuse but going along with their penchant for sticking with the status quo (when it suits them) why not just exclude (boot out) the six unelected peers and replace them with ELECTED politicians representing Scotland, Wales and N Ireland? Or exclude one English Tory MP and replace him / her with Joanna Cherry?

    Pete Wishart has pointed out that this is the first time that the third largest party in the Commons would not be included, noting the Liberal Democrats had held two seats in the previous parliament. Equal partners … so said David Cameron just over a year ago …. my a*se. The way Scotland is being treated is beyond the pale.

    This isn’t just about disrespect or wanting to wield Englands power and authority over the rest of Better Together UK. They don’t want Joanna Cherry QC involved in their Secret Society at all because she’ll show them up for what they are …. a bunch of English nationalist ignoramuses who’ve already made their minds up to repeal the Human Rights Act. And to think that many ordinary English voters didn’t want the SNP involved with a Labour Government. I wonder if they’re beginning to change their minds now?

    Yes they are disrespecting our MSPs, but more than anything they are disrespecting US the electorate and I’m sure that thousands of NO voters of whatever political persuasion will be raging about this (IF they are aware of it). Maybe the Daily Record will make them all aware of it tomorrow: Front page news.

    And what does Kezia Dugdale, Ruth Davidson and Willie Rennie have to say about this? When will be hearing from them? Oh I forgot Ian Murray, Labour, reiterated earlier tonight along with his best pal David Mundell, Tory, that Scotland is going to be the most powerful devolved nation in the World. No doubt the three aforementioned Union wimps agree with them.

    If the situation wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious.

  56. One_Scot says:

    You have to ask yourself, if the unionist media did not constantly hide the fact that Westminster has no respect for Scotland, would many genuine ‘No’ voters have voted differently.

  57. Lesley-Anne says:

    Bill Hume says:
    9 November, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    Fellow ‘Wingers, why are you so angry? Did you not expect this manipulation in the House of Commons? It is simply an indication of the fear which Scotland has loosed upon the charade, nay chimera of democracy, which passes for true democracy in the United Kingdom.

    Let us all be like Joanna Cherry and face them down at every opportunity. Let us do it with her dignity and barbed wit.

    Anger will win us nothing. Logic and an unfliching purpose, can and shall, win the day.

    To be honest Bill I think we all not only expected but knew deep down inside each and every one of us that what we are witnessing would happen. That said it still can not stop us being angry at the lies, hypocracy and misinformation being spewed out by the RED and BLUE Tories.

    On the up side we do have 56 M.P.’s from S******d doing what they can for the betterment of S******d. People are watching … the SNP know they are watching and they know the miscreants of the RED and BLUE Tories are now being seen by ever increasing numbers of S***s for what they truly are!

    Your final comments are true and that is what we are doing on here and elsewhere. It is difficult but we are wearing the unionists down. The naysayers may have the ref last year through their lies, deceit and misinformation but now a days a great many soft NOES are now seeing the unionists for what they truly are. I do not think a great many, if any, of the soft NOES will ever fall for any of the unionist shite again!

  58. sinky says:

    So all Labour MPs vote against devolving tax credits to Scottish Parliament

  59. Les Wilson says:

    How is all this going down on twitter?

  60. Ruby says:

    Alberto Costa likes people in England to know that he was born in England. He made his maiden speech during the Scottish Bill debate he said:

    ‘Today, we are debating the Scotland Bill. It is perhaps worth noting my own background. As the son of Italian immigrants, I was born in England but raised in Scotland. As a dual qualified Scottish and English solicitor, I have worked across our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I am proud to call myself British.’

    Did anyone listen to his maiden speech? Any guesses who he mentioned in this speech just after he said he was proud to call himself British?

  61. K1 says:

    Fucking sickening shower of hypocritical Labour toughing bastards!

    Yes I was aware they were going to shaft Scotland from the off…but when you actually watch them do it, it really drives it home.

    Wake up NO Voters, this applies to you to, not just those of us who support Scotland’s Independence.

    What they do to least of us, they do to us all.

    How anyone can vote Labour in Scotland next year without hanging their heads in shame is beyond me.

  62. K1 says:

    Twitter is lighting up wi it Les, all our MP’s are firing out tweets.

    Someone earlier on twitter, said his No voting dad is now going to vote Yes the next time, after listening to Labour on the clause related to abortion.

    Saw another tweet, saying they would never vote Labour again.

  63. Petra says:

    On a positive note this type of behaviour, treatment of our elected MSPs and the Scots, takes us one (or more) step closer to pushing the vote for Independence over the 60% mark. Keep it up Westminster. You’re doing a grand job.

  64. Bill Fraser says:

    Why do these ("Tractor" - Ed) /ess Tory Anglo Scots have such a desperate need to deny any right The S.N.P.have to argue there point in Westminster

  65. ronnie anderson says:

    Now theres a MP who should wake up and smell the coffee Alberto Costa, he,s got such a downer on his fellow countrymen, Why did somebody steal his icecream cone in the play ground.

    PMSL laughing at J Cherry QC MP & quip at Costa (so called Lawyer)or words to that effect.

  66. K1 says:

    The Rev can’t keep up wi the rate the tweets are coming in Les. 🙂

  67. Grouse Beater says:

    Alberto Costa: “I am proud to call myself British.”

    Da boys is gonna give wiseguy Al a visit, you know, to talk about sleepin’ wid da fishes, for snitchin’ to da southside mob.

    Take it as a favour from dis Sicilian-Scot. No problemo. One day I will call on you to return da gratitood.


  68. K1 says:

    And his internal ‘swearometer’ is at breaking point.

  69. Morgatron says:

    Im never buying one of those smarmy lawyers coffees ever again. Twat.

  70. ronnie anderson says:

    Filibuster Westminster I,ve said it since the Smith Commission & SNP taking part in that pantomime,now we,re on the second ,then the third ect ect ect.

    WE,LL get NOTHING from WESTMINSTER that was Clear from the start.

  71. galamcennalath says:

    One_Scot says:

    “You have to ask yourself, if the unionist media did not constantly hide the fact that Westminster has no respect for Scotland, would many genuine ‘No’ voters have voted differently”

    The lack of respect is much more apparent now than it was before Indyref1. So I’m not so sure it was relevant then, even if hidden. However, they can’t continue to hide it, not the way they are behaving now.

    We don’t need every No voter to changes side. 5% of voters is good, and then a few more points would push Yes to 60+%.

    If rumours of private polling of Yes well above 50% around the 5th Sept are true, and promises of DevoMax swung things to 55% No, then it seems reasonable to suggest the collapse of meaningful devolution delivery will put Yes firmly back in the lead.

  72. Wuffing Dug says:

    @craig sheridan

    Totally agree.

    People are expressing views on twitter that you would have thought outrageous even a couple of years ago.

    The will is there, other posters have mentioned the tipping point, it’s coming, the inevitability is now tangible.

    That’s how sick they are with the current situation.

    There is not much we can do about the travesty in Westminster other than support our SNP MP’s.

    Weakening the corporate media enough to maybe put a unionist newspaper out of business would be a start, and would also send a message.

    I can’t watch the clips, not after reading the comments – I would go nuts.

    Have already been cursing due to windows 10 so need to calm doon for a bit.

  73. ronnie anderson says:

    Sorry folks I said Alberto Costa had a downer on his fellow countrymen ma misstook He,s nae countryman of ours,jist a pretendy wan,but somebody must have stole his cone tae hiv such a downer oan us Scots.

  74. K1 says:

    Mundell: In closing statements, thanking ‘all Scotland’s 5 parties’ for input ya da ya da.

    But ah thought we were ‘a one party state’?

  75. galamcennalath says:

    Labour voted against devolving Tax Credits after their Scottish branch spending days trying to tell us they could mitigate them. Control or mitigate, which would be best? Obvious Kezia’s plans didn’t make it to HQ.

    Best political own goal for years! Well done Labour! Utter halfwits!

  76. Ruby says:

    The first time a newly elected MP speaks in the Chamber of the House of Commons is known as a maiden speech. By tradition, the Member is called ahead of other MPs who may have indicated their wish to speak at the same time. A maiden speech is usually uncontroversial, fairly short and contains a tribute to the MP’s predecessor and favourable remarks about the constituency.

    Alberto Costa’s maiden speech could hardly be described as uncontroversial. He said:

    ‘Those on the Government Benches are honouring the so-called vow to the Scottish people made during the Scottish referendum. It is right that we do this. It is also right, however, that we remind the House of another promise given by a senior member of the yes campaign, the former First Minister, the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond). During last year’s Scottish referendum, he said there would be no second referendum, stating:

    “this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity”.

    On this side of the House, we will ensure that that pledge—call it a vow, even—is honoured to the people of South Leicestershire and to the whole of our United Kingdom. The Scottish voters decided to remain part of the UK, and all British people are entitled to constitutional stability, at least for a lifetime.’

  77. K1 says:

    Did Angus just get shut down by the speaker?

    He hadn’t finished his comments, but Mundell and Murray got to complete their closing statements.

  78. Capella says:

    Angus Robertson rudely cut off mid speech by the Speaker. What sham “debating” chamber.
    Thank heavens that’s over.

  79. ronnie anderson says:

    Stewart Hosie shooting down that interviewer on Scotland 2015 Illinformed is no bbc interviewers strong points,or another attempt at telling lies.

  80. arthur thomson says:

    Bill Hume – I entirely agree with you even though at this moment I am seething at what is happening.

    I can’t help asking myself – why are the Greens and ‘the radical left’ not taking up the issue of the blatant lack of democracy at Westminster?

    Only the SNP is standing up for Scotland. I have to hope that increasing numbers of Scots are coming to understand that.

  81. Capella says:

    @ Ruby
    It is not given to us to know how long Alberto Costa’s lifetime will be.

    Remember the good fairy who granted an Absinthe drinker a wish. He wished for a silver shilling for every day of his life. She handed over two shillings.

  82. Ruby says:

    ‘On this side of the House, we will ensure that that pledge—call it a vow, even—is honoured to the people of South Leicestershire and to the whole of our United Kingdom.’

    That is such a weird thing to say. I’ll bet the people of South Leicestershire don’t give a toss if Scotland has a 2nd referendum. It’s beyond me how these English MPs can sell the idea to English voters that fighting with every fibre of their being to keep Scotland in the Union is a good thing when they claim Scotland is an economic basket case that has to be subsidised by England.
    What do the people of South Leicestershire gain from having Scotland in the Union?

    What would change in South Leicestershire if Scotland became independent?

  83. MrObycyek says:

    Time and time again the referendum result was brought up. If staying in the Union truly was the settled will of the people of Scotland then does it not follow that the Unionist parties should have done well in the general election? Everyone knows the SNP want independence and yet they were very close to taking all 59 seats in Scotland. The Unionist parties were clearly rejected by the people of Scotland in May.

    My blood is boiling after watching the utter contempt and ignorance shown towards Scotland, and its representatives in Parliament, by the other parties taking part in that farce of a debate. Sadly you will still get your usual knuckle dragging cretins in Scotland who don’t care.

  84. Ruby says:

    Wuffing Dug says:

    Have already been cursing due to windows 10 so need to calm doon for a bit

    Ruby Replies

    Oh dear! Your swear-box must be pretty full. You’ll soon have enough money to buy a MacBook! 😀

  85. Cadogan Enright says:

    The membership of the Scots Affairs Committee was decided before EVEL

    Now it must change.

    The SNP Must use the robust parliamentary tactics of the IIP to force this and other changes to have the Scottish mandate respected

    Or go further – stage walkouts – shout down the government speakers – disrupt question time – until the Democratic Voice of Scotland is heard on key of public representation.

    Ultimately a tea party maybe required , if all reasonable requests for representation in the face of taxation and worse is refused.

  86. bjsalba says:

    @Mike Fenwick

    I would wish that you had indicated which constituencies these English MPs come from. We should be asking the voters in these places what their MPs are doing for them by being on the Scottish Affairs Committee.

    The MPs on this Committee range from Carlisle to Jarrow to Suffolk to Dorset. I ask again what do the voters in these places gain from having their MPs on the Scottish Affairs Committee.

  87. HandandShrimp says:

    Sweet how Mundell and Murray sang from the same hymn sheet at the end.

    The “Better Together” marriage goes on.

    Tonights farce was more insulting and more pointless than I ever imagined it could be. Mundell is a terrible statesman. He seems to think that just saying something makes it so.

    Labour’s logic in not devolving tax credits is fathomless. A rod to beat their own backs.

  88. marydoll says:

    I am so angry at the arrogance of the Unionist MPs in WM. And I do not have a polite word to describe the Sec State for Scotland and his clone on the ‘other’ side.

    I am angry at the way Joanna Cherry was treated. Her arguments were intelligent and her comebacks excellent. Hell mend them – when nobody has any human rights!

    We do not have the ‘most powerful’ devolved parliament in the world ( unless its in the world of fantasy).

    Enough is enough. We’ve followed the rules – and lost. Lets just take out independence!

  89. Wuffing Dug says:


    OT – Tell me about it.

    I love the laptop, shame about it’s shitty OS.
    Only got a win machine for garmin compatibility.
    Ahm daft basically….

  90. John Campbell says:

    If that was the ” mother of all parliaments ” tonight , she surely was a hoooorrrrrr.

  91. Tam Jardine says:

    I don’t really follow all every nuance of politics but I am pretty sure labour and their friends in the media have been trying to roast the SNP over their commitment to mitigate the tory tax credit cuts.

    Having listened to Scottish labour politicians gloating about their uncosted plans to magically compensate for the tory tax credit cuts, goading the SNP while they figure out the path forward… for English and Welsh labour MPs to oppose the devolution of tax credits makes no sense.

    Do they want to destroy Scottish labour? Do they hate the SNP so much they will act to oppose them even if it means throwing Kezia in front of the bus?

    Words fail me. Am I right- did the amendment to devolve gender equality legislation to Holyrood fail as well? Mind-blowing.

    It seems that the Scottish Governement are going to be made responsible for money going out but where is the ability to improve the money coming in?

    That was difficult to watch tonight- I just wanted the SNP to walk out during Mundell’s speech. All this must end.

  92. arthur thomson says:

    So JEREMY CORBYN’S labour party voted against the devolution of tax credits.

    We must never forget that Corbyn is actually no better than Cameron. In fact he is worse because he masquerades as someone who genuinely supports democracy. Corbyn truly is no more than the other cheek of the same British arse.

  93. Robert Peffers says:

    @geeo says: 9 November, 2015 at 8:28 pm:

    “The good news is that i do not need to watch this video, the bad news is, i already watched that pompous little oaf live. (ohh…no tv tax, geeo bad)”

    Yes Geeo, I watched it too and I do not watch TV, except if I’m in my pal’s house, but you do not need a TV licence to watch either Westminster or Holyrood parliament TV.

    Here you go :-

    Now isn’t that good?

    If the TV licence mob come to call you can tell them you were watching it live on-line.

  94. Ruby says:

    MrObycyek says:
    9 November, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    My blood is boiling after watching the utter contempt and ignorance shown towards Scotland

    Ruby replies

    Why are you angry? Did you vote NO and expect to be ‘Better Together’?

  95. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s very clear from watching the debate and the “division” that only people who attend the debate should be allowed to vote.

    Also that the deputy speaker did a disgusting job, allowing MPs to waffle on for ages about matters that had nothing to do with the debate, and nothing to do with Westminster, i.e. what the policy might or might not be of the SNP at Holyrood.

    THAT is not the business of Westminster, to interfere in the democratic process of a devolved Parliament, legally constituted under the 1998 Scotland Act as ameneded by the 2012 Scotland Act, to be amended by the 2015 Scotland Act.

    That the deputy speaker allowed approcimately 50% of the debating time to be taken up by such utterances of MPs is a total democratic disgrace.

  96. Ruby says:

    HandandShrimp says:

    Labour’s logic in not devolving tax credits is fathomless. A rod to beat their own backs.

    Ruby replies

    Is this something new or are you referring to the Smith Commission.

  97. Papadox says:

    Alberto Costa: He Costa England Her colony! FT!!!

    Aye rebellious Scots to CRUSH! Are we in a union or a cage?

  98. Training Day says:

    Labour must be expunged, eradicated, erased, annihilated, removed from Scotland – for good. No returns in any form, no second chances for chancers after independence. In the name of God, they have to go.

  99. Sinky says:

    David Maddox report in Hootsman fails to mention that Labour voted against devolving tax credits.

    Also picture is months old.

  100. Robert Peffers says:

    craig sheridan says: 9 November, 2015 at 8:33 pm:

    ” … The point here is that we play too nice and while we may win an argument, nothing changes and its change that’s required.”

    Oh! It changes all right. When I started to support independence I was a wee boy in Edinburgh and there were no other SNP members for miles around. The only place you bumped into fellow members was organised meetings or at Speaker’s Corner at the foot of The Mound on a Sunday.

    Now I get regularly stopped in the street with someone saying, “Hey! I like your hat we the badges oan it”.

    Just be patient – no one said it would be easy.

  101. Mike Fenwick says:

    @ Cadogan Enright – absolutely correct over EVEL – but I hold my views on this even despite that – there are 11 members on the Scottish Affairs Committee, but of that 11 only 4 were elected in Scotland and have Scottish Constituents – that to me is unexplainable and indefensible, and even more so after EVEL.

    @ bjsalba – sorry, seeing a post about “Rights” and how Scottish MPs were being denied involvement, I simply wanted to get the subject of the Scottish Affairs Committee on the agenda at Wings (where I hadn’t personally seen it raised – apologies if I am wrong).

    I just cannot fathom why the situation has been allowed to happen, and more specifically why it is being allowed to continue.

    “Scotland’s Voice” was to be heard – it ain’t on that Committee, to me it looks as though it has gone native – am I wrong to be critical – I don’t think so.

  102. heedtracker says:

    That was far worse than anything imaginable. Now the BBC and co begin the hard UKOK shyste.

    They are descending even further down the UKOK brainwashing sewer, if that’s possible.

  103. Robert Louis says:

    This is what they did to Ireland. Insult, Insult, Insult. Over and over again. Then they wondered why the shooting started.

    (and before anybody starts greetin, I’m not advocating violence, just making a point – Westminster NEVER learns).

    I hope Dugdale is really proud of her RED TORY chums at Westminster tonight.

  104. heedtracker says:

    The Voice of BetterTogether Slovenia

    Cameron Brooks ?@Cambrook_PJ 58m58 minutes ago
    Bizarre world – Scot MPs unable to vote on English only issues but English MPs vote down a whole dose of amendments in droves #ScotlandBill
    12 retweets 5 likes
    Reply Retweet 12
    Like 5

    Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 55m55 minutes ago
    .@Cambrook_PJ That’s because the Scotland Bill is about a reserved matter: namely, UK constitutional law. So, not bizarre at all.

  105. Ronnie says:


    @ Les Wilson

    Just to be clear, Union Street, Aberdeen was named after the Acts of Union 1800 with Ireland, not the Union we’d like to dissolve.

    Might still rename it anyway, though.

  106. Chic McGregor says:

    Perhaps we should have a campaign along the lines of:

    Contrary to apparent Westminster belief, Scots are human and therefore have a legitimate stake in any human rights legislation as formulated by the UK parliament and must be accorded the ability to make their opinions felt at every stage of the legislation?

    Their refusal to allow this must surely count as yet another indyref2 legitimising ‘change of circumstance’ and one which I have no doubt the international community would immediately acknowledge as such.

    Of course, human rights, are by any moral definition, intrinsic and immutable.

    Therefore the only possible defence of this by Westminster would be that human rights implementation is an (unstated) devolved matter. In which case, good. The Scottish parliament, in that case, should immediately act to imbue the Court of Session, or a new Human Rights court in Scotland with the power to decide on such matters in accord with human rights laws enshrined in the ECHR or the UN Charter.

  107. heedtracker says:

    This is all BBC r4 news reported tonight

    Very odd reportage from that bunch of chancers.

  108. heedtracker says:

    Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins Nov 8
    No, Mr Salmond. We’re not “frightened of the verdict of the people”. Unlike you, we respect it. The people said No

    Last word of the day from the author of The Smith Commission. Classic Prof Tomkinski, Ljubljana West ( C ) stuff. “We respect the verdict of the people” and as if anything that went on tonight in that mad house had anything to do with respect for Scotland or whatever it is proud Scotbuts thought they’d voted for.

    He’ll make a great Tory Lord will Adam.

  109. John Moss says:

    Well, guess when the Unionists start to campaign for our votes we can ask them a simple question…why should we vote for you to be a second-class citizen in your United Kingdom?

    Let’s also get them to explain why this is what is they meant by being ‘Better Together’?

  110. Legerwood says:

    Heedtracker @ 11.41

    The story is on the front page of the on-line Guardian as well.

    I guess it is their ‘spoiler’ story as in ‘Look at these awful Scots interfering in English-only business’.

    Saves them having to report how all those English MPs ganged up to emasculate Scotland and in doing so clearly demonstrated nstrate this unequal Union.

  111. DerekM says:

    Just when you think things cant possibly get worse the Britnats prove us wrong,what we just witnessed was colonialism by a nation determined any way it can to keep hold of Scotland even if it means dictatorship.

    Now they say the Scottish parliament has no right to hold a second referendum.

    Well westminster we are the sovereign people of Scotland and we will decide not you or your propaganda press or for that matter the Scottish parliament,try and stop us if you dare.

  112. Paula Rose says:

    Seems like we are going to need it sooner than later –

    What should the first line of our Constitution be ?

  113. Angra Mainyu says:

    Possibly one of the most scandalous nights in recent political history. From the deliberate time wasting to various displays of flagrant contempt, it’s hard to imagine how the united Labour-Tory front could have made the evening more humiliating and insulting to the people of Scotland.

    The whole thing was sickening and infuriating.

    We are now officially in anything goes territory and Sturgeon had better respond to this with something more than a hint or two about triggers. It’s time to go all in and declare that provisions for a referendum will be outlined in the SNP manifesto for 2016.

    It’s time to act.

  114. Iain More says:

    So much for the effin VOW. I hope the nawbags are hinging their heads in shame.

  115. MrObycyek says:


    MrObycyek Replies

    You’ve got me pegged Ruby. All those times previously where I berated NO voters for betraying their own country was just an act on my part. It was my coping mechanism to make up for my own cowardly decision to vote NO on September 18.

    As if. I voted YES. I believe in my country and I always will.

    I live by three golden rules:
    1. Never trust a man with a baldy heid.
    2. Never trust a girl who leaves skid marks.
    3. Never trust a Unionist.

    You will always go far in life as long as you bear those in mind at all times.

    PS. NO voters suck balls.

  116. Chic McGregor says:

    @Mike Fenwick

    I raised it here even before it happened i.e. predicted it would be stuffed with a majority of English constituency MPs for the first time.

    Trouble is, it seems to be one of those things which is kept off radar.

    Perhaps the SNP have complained about it but that has just been buried by our disgraceful media.

    Even if there is some mechanism where its profile could be raised to the point where it could not be ignored by them I suspect they would simply portray that as confrontational behaviour or whinging at best. That’s what they do for their hush money.

  117. Haggis Hunter says:

    Alberto Costa was born in Carlisle, and is as Scottish as the Queen is.

    He made an erse of himself in his attempt to take Angus, and it only took a little bait in the form of a letter to the local paper for him to reply with a rant, a rant that was so mental and ludicrous, that even his own support turned against him.

    He moved to Montrose 2 years before the election, and started his campaign from there, when he lost he up and left for London 2 days later.

  118. Robert Peffers says:

    @Wuffing Dug says: 9 November, 2015 at 10:29 pm:

    “People are expressing views on twitter that you would have thought outrageous even a couple of years ago.”

    Twitter is not really a reliable yardstick, Wuffing Dug.

    “Have already been cursing due to windows 10 so need to calm doon for a bit.”

    You too, Wuffing Dug? Windows 10 is a disaster for some folks.

    I’m up to my lugs in the dark arts of repairing my Windows 10 installation, (using DISM on the Windows 10 Powershell ISE). Powershell is supposed to be an improvement but it seems to be generating yet another layer of, “Jargon speak”.

    Attempting to follow advice from a guru is exasperating. Far too many three and four capital letter new terms to look up to translate their advice back into English.

  119. Mike Fenwick says:

    @ Chic McGregor

    This is an extract from the Scottish Affairs Committee website:

    …” 10 July 2015

    The Scottish Affairs Committee is seeking views on its programme of work. What should we do and how should we do it?

    Inquiry: Work of the Scottish Affairs Committee
    Scottish Affairs Committee

    The Scottish Affairs Committee wishes to involve the people of Scotland in its work, from Scottish Parliamentarians to the business, academic and voluntary sectors and members of the Scottish public, we want to hear from you. We want to know what issues you think we should be examining during this Parliament and the best ways for us to go about that work.
    Chair’s comments

    Pete Wishart MP, Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Committee said:

    I am delighted to have been elected chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee. Under my chairmanship I want the Committee to engage directly and regularly with the people of Scotland. I want to hear what issues you think the Committee should be looking at as well as suggestions for how the Committee can best tap into the incredible upsurge in political engagement that we are witnessing across Scotland….”

    So far so good, perhaps – now is there anyone on here who thinks that there are NO issues that could be raised for the Committee to take on board, personally (and I don’t think I am alone) I could bombard them with issues. Let’s start with tax credits, and get an answer to whether the DWP will pull back any mitgation attempts by the Scottish Government.

    But here is where I raise the thought I have – that they may have gone native – I just do not understand this comment, also from Pete Wishart:

    “… Our call for evidence is not restricted to those based in Scotland. Whether it be the effect of Government policies on areas either side of the border or the devolution settlement in general, the Scottish Affairs Committee is interested in hearing from people and organisations based across the United Kingdom on what issues we should be covering.”

    That, for me at least, was an open invitation, not to prevent, but to allow 7 MPs on a Scottish Affairs Committee who have no Scottish constituents, outnumbering the 4 that were elected in Scotland. For me, it should never have happened.

    And with the advent of EVEL, why on earth is it being allowed to continue?

  120. Mike Fenwick says:

    This is the e-mail I have just issued to the Scottish Affairs Committee – my hope is that, rather than just express anger and disappointment, posters on here might feel inclined to follow suit …

    Call for an inquiry by the Scottish Affairs Committee

    As an adult resident of Scotland, I ask that the Committee conduct an inquiry into the failure by David Mundell MP to reply in a satisfactory and fulsome manner to a question posed by Mhairi Black MP during the passage of the Scotland Bill in Parliament yesterday, namely whether as Secretary of State for Scotland, on the issue of tax credits, he would pledge that the Tories wouldn’t treat any compensatory payments to victims of the cuts as income and claw it back to Westminster – leaving Holyrood hundreds of millions out of pocket but the victims no better off.

    This is a matter of genuine and significant concern to many in Scotland.

    Hansard will record the manner in which David Mundell MP chose to answer the question posed by Mhairi Black MP, and it will be for the Scottish Affairs Committee to decide whether the reply given by the Secretary of State for Scotland was clear, unambiguous, and therefore sufficient to allay the fears of many in Scotland on this issue. Should the Committee decide that it was not, I believe it provides more than sufficient and reasonable grounds for the Committee to conduct the inquiry requested.

    Whilst rarely used, I understand that any witness called before the Committee may be required to answer questions under oath, and be subject to the law of perjury.

    I await a response.

    Mike Fenwick …

  121. fletch49er says:

    If I hadn’t heard it I wouldn’t have fuckin’ believed it!!

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