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The soggy deckchairs

Posted on September 21, 2016 by

With the greatest of reluctance, and only in the absence of anything even remotely more interesting, then, let’s have a few words on Scottish Labour’s latest solemn and sincere declaration of its full, total, complete and utter autonomy.

telegraphauto

Because while the media is reporting the development that UK Labour has decided to extend a few extra inches of lead to Kezia Dugdale’s branch office as if it had the slightest importance to anything, it seems oddly reluctant to ask the obvious question.

The situation as it stands – assuming the decision is rubber-stamped by conference this coming weekend – is this:

– Scottish Labour will now be allowed to decide on all devolved policy (something they’ve been telling us was already the case for years)

– It’ll also be allowed to form policies on matters reserved to Westminster

– And some boring internal party stuff (but NOT including, for example, the purging of Scottish Labour members by the UK party, as in this year’s leadership election. That’ll still be a matter for the London head office, although the Scottish branch will be allowed to express an opinion).

And that creates a really, really obvious problem. Let’s take the easy example.

Currently Scottish Labour is opposed to the renewal of Trident. (Yes, yes, we know – that’s a policy on a reserved issue, which they declared almost a year before what we’re being told is a dramatic new change allowing them to do exactly that, so readers may find themselves reasonably wondering in what sense anything has changed.)

UK Labour, however, is still fully committed to renewing the weapons system.

So should there be an election – whether a Westminster or Holyrood one – people thinking of voting Labour in Scotland will have to vote for a single party holding two directly contradictory, totally irreconcilable policies at the same time.

(We’ve already noted that it shouldn’t even be possible to do that under UK electoral law, but we can’t see the Electoral Commission getting involved.)

Which of the two wins in that contest? That’s an easy answer – the UK Labour policy trumps the Scottish Labour one. You can vote for a Trident-opposing Scottish Labour all you want, but if Labour are in charge of the decision you’ll be getting a new Trident and that’s that.

The same goes for any other policy on which Scottish Labour might take a position at odds with that of the UK party – the UK party policy is the one that happens. So, and forgive us if this is another shot at the bleeding obvious, what’s the point?

It’s a bit like us disagreeing with Gordon Strachan over who plays in Scotland’s next World Cup qualifier. Now, he could suddenly announce that he was giving us official permission to disagree with him, but the reality is that we’ve been perfectly free to do that forever and we’ve expressed our opinions with regard to selection many times.

It’s just that our opinion didn’t, and doesn’t, matter in even the most microscopically tiny way. Gordon picks the team and that’s that.

Kezia Dugdale can rearrange the furniture on the Scottish deck of the Good Ship Labour all she likes. But her steering wheel is a plastic toy one that isn’t connected to anything and her captain’s hat came out of the gift shop.

kezsteer

That was the situation five years ago, it was the situation one year ago, it was the situation yesterday and it’ll be the situation this time next year. Every newspaper that’s reporting this brimming bucket of horseplop as a “news” story is treating you like a slack-jawed Neanderthal. You shouldn’t have to put up with it.

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    1. 21 09 16 16:57

      The soggy deckchairs | speymouth

    213 to “The soggy deckchairs”

    1. Isn’t it funny how Labour Hame has nothing to say about the matter. Surely, it it was such a whizzolux thing, they would be trumpeting it like they were/ will on BBC Scotland?

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      SLab – autonomous to have its own thoughts and policies, just not to implement any of them.

      That about it?

    3. Dr Jim says:

      Yes all true, but they are now allowed to say the word “Autonomy” as many times a day as they want without fear of it ever being questioned that it’s not exactly true, really honestly, why wont anyone listen, it’s now time to stop the criticism, gonnae please stop saying stuff, we are autonomous we are we are

      Poor wee souls

    4. Lanarkist says:

      It’s like they are running out of ideas, like, properly running out, gone, done dusted.

      The Media report its Groundhog Day again and we are meant to believe it!

      Two establishment pillars lashed together will only mean they tumble at the same time. That time seems to be approaching rapidly and its speeding up, heading for the buffers!

      Thanks Stu, for this and all you do!

    5. Oscar Taime says:

      So Scottish Labour needs autonomy from Westminster so they can keep telling for Scots that they are better off being run by …..
      Hmmmm

    6. Macart says:

      Groundhog day!

      Got to be! 😮

    7. shug says:

      Is the snp hoovering up labour members who can see this as a fraud
      If not why not

    8. call me dave says:

      Nearly top of the news in shortbread land this ‘Scottish’labour autonomy!

      I saw big Brian on BBC shortbread tv news a wee while ago ask Deputy Deadwood that very same question and he wasn’t fooled, because he had his hand up to his mouth trying to hide the smirk!

      He did however try to explain it all to us thick Scots viewers in such a way that it sounded good news all round… FGS!

      I have said it before “Has Brian lost some weight”?
      Surely he’s fading away to nothing just like ‘Scottish labour’

      Meanwhile Owen throws in the towel moments after voting closed on the leadership race, Ruthie must have given him a call on how the postal votes had gone. 🙂

    9. Speedbert says:

      Is it wrong to think that they have secured autonomy from a party that may not exist in a few weeks …depending on the outcome of today’s election?
      so will they have autonomy from Corbin’s Labour or from the New New Red Torys??

    10. McDuff says:

      The problem is that the MSM will push this story as a big positive for Labour and there is no one like the Rev to publically take on Dugdale and expose this nonsense for what it is.

    11. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      The sooner Scotland is autonomous from rUK and Westminster the better.

      au¦tono|mous

      ADJECTIVE

      (of a country or region) having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs

      I strongly suspect the next word to be associated with (autonomous)BLiS and plastered all over the MSM to be “Federal”

    12. Vambomarbeleye says:

      A turd disappearing down a toilet.
      Once in a generation we here.
      It would take more than a generation for labours antics during the 2014 referendum to be forgotten. How they happily climbed into bed with the torys, their political enemy and prostituted themselves.
      Darling was after one thing. A stoat round his neck.
      Darling and Brown will not be forgotten. They are up there with thatcher.

    13. Clootie says:

      …that last photograph with a young Kezia thinking she was driving summed up Labour in Scotland…the illusion of being in control as you travel towards the destination that the “grown ups” have already selected.

      The sad thing is that the remains membership are humouring the bairn by going along with her.

    14. DerekM says:

      Whit again if they become anymore autonomous and loosen any more ties their trousers will fall down.

    15. Proud Cybernat says:

      Are we there yet?

      http://imgur.com/a/xdx2y

    16. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      That is the fun bit. SLAB can promise sweeties for all to get the popular vote, and the Westminster party can do what the hell they want. In effect we would be voting for ONE set of policies by a party which is going to enact another.

    17. Suzanne says:

      Vile Separatists! Whatever next!

      What will be interesting is seeing the remaining, yet still somewhat disaffected Labour party members in Scotland outraged by not being led from Westminster by Jeremy Corbyn but by an Owen-supporting Dugdale.

      Can someone prop open the front door – we’ll be having more Labour supporter defections.

    18. DerekM says:

      I think we should hear Jim Murphy`s opinion not on Slab autonomy but on the possibility they stole his glue bag stash.

      Its been a big mystery since Jim disappeared on his voyage of talking pish to who ever will listen,did he take it with him or did they send him out evo free riding on his crate with many eggs.

      I think we should be informed and what are the SNP going to do about it.

    19. Sharny Dubs says:

      Barefaced Bullsugar….

    20. galamcennalath says:

      In a perverse way there is consistency.

      The SNP can make policy on devolved matters and since it is in government it can deliver them.

      It can say what it likes on reserved matters and it is always ignored at WM!

      The underhand aspect of SLab/Labour’s manoeuvrings is that many ordinary voters will be conned by this autonomy crap.

      Still … Scottish LibDems, Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour … what is supposed to be Scottish about them!? Unionist parties have been pulling this stunt of faux Scottish branding and pretendy autonomy for decades. They won’t stop now.

    21. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: “Groundhog day!”

      Prize for the most succinct summing up of the issues. (I’ve a strange feeling I have written that before.)

    22. Smallaxe says:

      How many times do I have to tell you nasty nats,Our dear leader never ever said that Labour in S——-d were autonomous,Kezia said that they were Automatons,clockwork dummy’s with broken springs,so let’s have no more of your unwarranted piffle.

      Peace Love and Parliamentary Puppets:-)

    23. Proud Cybernat says:

      Autonomous? Given that they have only one MP in Scotland and they’re saying the same thing over and over, it should be monotonous.

    24. Iain More says:

      It doesn’t matter how they wrap it up or what glitzy bling they put on it BLiS is still an English Red Tory Party. They will still be goose-stepping to London’s Calling.

      As for the Dug she is a moronic automaton. Her mouth is like an SMG stuck on fire. If she stopped to take a breath she would collapse from Oxygen poisoning.

      So who is actually funding this farce of a Party in Scotland? Or is the coin I suspect still coming from London UKOK Central HQ as in dirty foreign money like Bitter Together?

    25. annie says:

      Could it be used as a way for say Tom Watson with Kezia’s help to undermine Corbyn when he is re-elected leader. Obviously things would change back when a blairite leader gets elected in future.

    26. sinky says:

      After 17 years of devolution Labour Branch Office still subsidy junkies with a £15 million deficit.

      When will they register as a proper Scottish political party and declare the source of its income, imported call centre activity and bodyheat at Scottish elections.

      GS Ponsonby nails BBC’s latest smears

      http://indyref2.scot/dykey-d-the-bbc-scotland-smear-machine-kicks-in-again

    27. bjsalba says:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog

      Oh look a squirrel!

      Nope that is a groundhog!

    28. Iain More says:

      And since you brought up the topic of footie Rev

      Well done to the Scottish quines on qualifying for the Euros.

    29. Bob Mack says:

      Big question though. “Who pays the bills ?”. Fully autonomous they have to pay their own way surely.
      If not ? Speaks for itself really.

    30. So who cares? It is not even worth a slot on an English TV chatter show. “Defence” is still the London Party bosses, etc.

    31. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Proud Cybernat say at 3:55 pm

      As Mr T was oft quoted, “pity the fool” who believes this autonomous line (and there will be some).

      Wonder how the Daily Red Coat front cover will look tomorrow as they try once again “to fool all of the people all of the time”??

    32. Alex McArthur says:

      It’s strange to me that Scottish Labour seem to think they should be run from Scotland, but Scotland itself shouldn’t.

    33. One_Scot says:

      ‘Scottish Labour’, more comebacks than Frank Sinatra.

    34. Ali says:

      That’s about as close as I’d want them to steering the car too

    35. DerekM says:

      If Corbyn has any sense the first thing he will do once the red tory liars are soundly thrashed by England`s Labour party members(who are waking up in droves we always said they just needed poking a bit more)is to wipe away the entire Scottish cliche.

      Corbyn knows to win the UK PM he needs Scotland and the incumbent slabbers are dead wood red tories,if he is the socialist he claims to be then he will try to offer federalism for Scotland in the UK,his problem with that is we are past that point in Scotland and have heard it all before from London politicians.

      If momentum if you guys are reading this we will settle for nothing less than independence but that does not mean we intend to shut down England or become your enemy,together as independent countries in the British isles with friendly relations and trade we could both become great again.

      The union is past its sell by date as it stands will die but a new union will form its inevitable since we both live on this wee bit rock.

      For god sake think beyond your colonial imperialist heritage past and think about your weans futures.

    36. heedtracker says:

      So the ferociously blue tory and anti devo anything Torygraph boosterises the red tory and ferociously anti devo anything SLabour party.

      This is belts out between the ears of UKOK hackdom.

      Its,
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rutX0I6NxU

    37. Famous15 says:

      Autonomous “Scottish” Labour for the most powerful subordinate parliament in the world.

      Aye right!

    38. Petra says:

      They must think that we all came up the Clyde on a bicycle, FGS. Labour in Scotland is as autonomous as Moothie’s Tory Party and WW Winkie’s Lib-Dems. They ALL take their orders from London and always will do (until we get our Independence). Westminster Party before the Scottish people. End of.

      This arrangement has been agreed with Labour’s NEC! Is that not quite telling? Kezia Dugdale had to go cap in hand and ‘ask’ the NEC England for permission in the first place.

      Scottish Labour will be directly represented with voting rights on the NEC by a frontbench member of the Scottish Parliament, nominated by Kezia Dugdale (if she’s still there). I wonder who that will be? James(I’ll no sit doon) Kelly or Jackie (ah canny count but am a guid liar) Baillie? Voting rights on what exactly?

      They must be laughing their heads off down south. SLab can contradict the UK’s manifesto policies all they like but at the end of the day it’s empty rhetoric.

      Scotland’s Kezia says (with voting rights) …. ”Remove Trident from Scotland right now”. England’s Corbyn (or whoever) says ”Get stuffed. You’re lumbered with it.” …. Kezia ”Stop bombing Syria.” ”Get lost we’ll bomb away.” …. Kezia ”We’re not pulling out of the EU.” ”Too bad. We are. That means you too. Sit down and shut up.”

      They’ll still be financed by Labour (England). What does that tell you? The only hope that these losers have, the losers that told us that we’d remain in the EU if we voted No (etc, etc, etc), is to join us in seeking Independence: Not autonomy.

    39. frogesque says:

      Sorry but there has been an error in that press release.

      For autonomous, please read autononomons. Thank you.

    40. Ianmc says:

      Given they told us we had the most powerful devolved parliamnet in the world and that we getting as near to totally fedralism as possible, I can understand that this move is the sum of Labour ambition in Scotland.

      In their own heads they are flying with the birds, unshackled and free. In reality the remain doubke dealers, devoid of ambition and cyncial in their treatment of the Scottish electorate, as evidenced by this pish.

    41. Brian McGrath says:

      But how will the media turn this into an SNP BAD story? I wait with baited breath…and a cup of tea.

    42. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Someone, possibly right here, stated recently that Kezia is to be hoofed this coming Saturday.

      Anyone heard likewise?

    43. Greannach says:

      When my boss gave me the sack I told her I totally disagreed with her decision. Guess what!

    44. DerekM says:

      cont..

      Free us Scots so we can turn Scotland into a renewable power station,so we can do to Europe what we have done to you and shake the whole damn system to the core and push progressive politics and get political parties to act and behave properly to their electorates.

      Well if you think once we get our independence we are just going to sit back and watch the brain damage radiation box again and let it all go to rat shit,think again.

      Nope watch out world the Scots are coming and we have this plan you see….. and we think you are all going to like it ,its even better than the last enlightenment we had 🙂

    45. heedtracker says:

      Nary a year ago “autonomous” SLab did make an autonomous decision and one which caused the glass walls of Pacific Quay to explode into the Clyde. So autonomous Kez changed it back, autonomously and very quickly too.

      http://www.thenational.scot/politics/kezia-dugdale-u-turns-and-says-shell-allow-labour-politicians-to-back-a-yes-vote.7806?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=144281

    46. JLT says:

      But …at the end of the day, Kezia will be extremely happy!

      She can at this point in the early evening, show off her big happy grin to the cameras, and tells everyone that she is ecstatic that Scottish Labour have been given even more ‘pretendy’ new powers that give them control over absolutely hee-haw when it comes to Labour policies.

      I wonder if Ruth will ask Theresa for pretendy new powers also? Maybe wee Willie can ask Tim Fallon at the same time for a new bouncy castle for the Scottish Lib Dems.

      And yet …the only real authorisation they have been given by their London HQ’s is two things; keep telling the Scoittish people that the SNP are ‘baaaad’ and to keep wailing at the SNP about a ‘once in a generation referendum’.

      That is the only two things that their London paymasters are very happy for them to do openly and with full authority.

    47. Free Scotland says:

      Labour’s Branch Office is to UK Labour what Scotland is to Westminster – something to be used and abused for political gain. But the number of those saying “enough is enough” is growing by the day.

    48. Papadox says:

      And the cash will be controlled and dispersed by Londinium/TUC as a reward after performing londiniums tricks and sitting quietly in a corner while the big NEC makes all the decisions. Then they can get their tickets back to the boon docks in jockland and leaksville, to show how well trained they are. They can spout all the lies they like to the natives THEN they’ll dae as their telt. The yoons will be happy Tory, Slab & wee wullie. The coffin dodgin yoons will be ecstatic.

    49. jimnarlene says:

      SLab, BLiS or whatever you want to call them, are a bit light on autonomy; and more automaton, with London as ever pulling the strings. (I know it’s puppets that have strings)

      Automaton via Wikipedia

      An automaton(plural: automata or automatons) is a self-operating machine, or a machine or control mechanism designed to follow automatically a predetermined sequence of operations, or respond to predetermined instructions. Some automata, such as bellstrikers in mechanical clocks, are designed to give the illusion to the casual observer that they are operating under their own power.

    50. donald mac says:

      So SLab will be funded and effectively told what to do from down south but won’t have the powers to actually change anything that they want to change up here.

      Now, where have we seen this situation before…?

      How long until SLab put 2+2 together and come up with the right answer

    51. Kevin Evans says:

      @derekM,

      Just had a good old laugh – I’d forgotten Jims confession about sniffing glue.

    52. Chitterinlicht says:

      Just pettifogging piffle. Whole process reminds me of student politics and endless committees achieving nothing but their own self importance – I hated that.

      Total meaningless nonsense and B Taylor desperately describing how it will work just evidenced what a back water joke Scottish and UK labour are.

      There is a much cleaner way to achieve autonomy for Scottish Labour.

    53. manandboy says:

      There’s worse – much worse.
      http://www.thecanary.co/2016/09/20/the-truth-behind-channel-4s-stitch-up-job-on-momentum-has-left-viewers-speechless/

      Excellent Stu, more Unionist State propaganda, still running the show in Cybernatland, but also frothing in England since Corbyn’s appearance centre stage.

      Getting seriously serious.

    54. manandboy says:

      US coalition Predator drone spotted at time & place of Syria aid convoy attack – Russian military
      Published: 21 Sep 2016 | 15:40 GMT

      When I read the Russian statements about the aid convoy attacks in Syria, and then NATO’s/USA – I believe the Russians.

    55. manandboy says:

      If a senior Labour Party figure died, and was taken to the funeral parlour, we’d be sure to get a quote from the coffin via the BBC’s roving reporter, saying SNP Bad.

    56. Papadox says:

      So do l manandboy. The yanks are not to be trusted.

    57. alexicon says:

      The other obvious thing that is missing from the glorious headlines is the fact that London Labour will be still bailing out their branch office in Scotland with money.
      How can you be autonomous when you’re under their financial thumb?

    58. heedtracker says:

      As the Daily Torygraph roasters are now the spokesberks for autonomous SLab, it behoves autonomous Kez to spake onto England through that repulsive organ.

      http://archive.is/dFAXp

      Tick autonomously

      “We can’t pin our hopes on a leadership who speak only to the converted, rather than speaking to the country as a whole.
      My only public comment on Jeremy’s leadership before this contest was to say he had lost the confidence of his parliamentary colleagues. That’s a fact.

      More than 80 per cent of Labour MPs expressed a lack of confidence in Jeremy’s leadership. If 80 per cent of my colleagues in the Scottish Parliament didn’t support me, I wouldn’t be able to do the job – even though I received 72 per cent of the votes when party members and trade unionists in Scotland elected me to be their leader.”

      Tock autonomously

    59. Tortured Crichton of the Daily Raggard blared from my dashboard this morning on BBC Radio Jordanhill News Where We Are, that the So Called Scottish Labour Party was now, no seriously this time, fully autonomous. The man is either an idiot or thinks that we are.
      I surfed BBC So Called Scotland 2016(Why not go the whole hog and rename it ‘North Briton 2016’) from last night.
      Those two New Labour Big Beasts, Rhea Wolfson in the studio. interviewed by an embattled looking Graham Stewart, and Johanna Baxter, live from the BBC Death Star at the heart of the Holy London Empire, more or less confirmed that So Called Scottish Labour had permission from the NEC to peddle this quite seriously deranged guff.
      Rhea Wolfson (I know nobody knows who she is) is apparently a Momentum activist newly elected to the NEC: a young firebrand, with big glasses, she objected to the principle that an unaccountable MSP , appointed by Kezia the Auto, would be allowed to sit on the NEC, and doggedly pointed out that the surreal, bordering on psychotic breakdown of So Called Scottish Labour’s Bid For Freedom would need to get the OK from Conference.

      I haven’t a baldy notion who Johanna Baxter is.
      They couldn’t even get any of the stalwarts on air to front this piece of pish.
      BBC News Where We are is full of it today. Yes, BBC North Briton, you are full of it.
      Stu, what about Sanderson of the Clyde at the Colonial Herald?

      “ASSURANCES that Brexit will not lead to a hard border in Ireland do not necessarily mean the same rule would apply to travel between an independent Scotland and England, leading academics have warned.”
      England will erect an Offa’s Dyke, sorry a brick retaining wall, from the Isle of whithorn to the Tweed, to hem in the Scottish Europeans.

      That would be Professor Nicola McEwen .also featured on North Briton 2016 last night, as were Henry McLeish, looking muddled again, who chaired the ‘sold out’ Constitutional Change Conference, and three passports Professor Michael Keating, banging on about not having a constitution again, and another Professor, Linda Bauld of Stirling University, commenting on the latest Health Survey that finds that a 1/3 of us Scots are fat basters, 1/4 of our women aged between 55 and 65 are gumsy basters, and that we’re not eating our five a day.
      The Stirling academic seems to think we need to communicate more to the Great Unwashed, and that the Government has to do more, and those nasty supermarkets must be told off, or words to that effect. (I have, as you probably know, the transcript.)

      The Unionist MSM and Kezia Dugdale and the New Labour Gravy Trainers hiding behind the Branch Office sofa today, and apparently our ‘leading’ academics and Old New Labour Hangers On like McLeish, seem to have completely lost any sense of what Scotland is all about in the 21st Century.

      Rhea Wolfson? Johanna Baxter? They are running out mugs willing to peddle their pish.

    60. Truth says:

      I steer clear of political parties, media, clubs, frankly anything that assumes I’m an idiot, or encourages non-thought.

      I’m not the only one.

      We’re not stupid Kezia, you might just be though. That, or a poor snake oil salesman.

    61. Patrick Roden says:

      You can bet that all of this charade is as a result of some feed back SLAB keeps getting, that the reason voters are abandoning them, is that they are perceived as being run from Westminster for London’s and the South Easts, benefit.

      So they are left with a dilemma:

      Break away from London Labour, and begin to put forward policies that are designed for Scotland and her peoples benefit…

      Or, use their friends in the London controlled media, to attempt to fool or con the people of Scotland.

      Same old Labour…always lying!

    62. Training Day says:

      As predicted, the colonial media (in this case STV) tell us that ‘Scottish’ Labour will control policy on reserved issues, completely failing to ask the question ‘so if I vote Scottish Labour I can get rid of Trident then?’

      I’ll take a wild guess and say that that’ll be the case in every colonial MSM outlet.

    63. Sweep says:

      You say you have autonomy but why?
      With truth you show economy, you lie!
      And let me tell you mon ami
      That though I speak with bonhomie
      Your pish is just NOT-ON-omy – bye bye!

    64. Smallaxe says:

      DerekM:

      Standing ovation sir,superb piece of wit and Wisdom

      Peace Always

    65. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lanarkist says: 21 September, 2016 at 3:33 pm:

      “It’s like they are running out of ideas, like, properly running out, gone, done dusted”.

      Dinna be daft, Lanarkist. Ye canna be rinnin oot o ideas until efter ye hae some ideas tae begin wi’.

    66. heedtracker says:

      Rancid the Graun piles in, autonomously. Its a great shot of autonomous Kez too. Libby Carrel says SNP bad, shock.

      Usual pile of vote anyone but SNP pants from that red tory Britnat crew.

      http://archive.is/mZ07s

      “The SNP, which has consistently goaded the Scottish party as being controlled by “London Labour”, has taken several hundred thousand voters from Labour, pushing it into third place in the Scottish parliament and leaving it with just one MP at Westminster.”

      Less goaded, more took the place of a bunch of red tory idiots as they spectacularly fail this summer, fail as opposition, fail as a party, even failing as UKOK bullshit artists with the whole might of BBC Scotland and co, frantically covering autonomous Kez’s spectacular end of era mess.

      But it is Libby Carrell o the Graun.

    67. Kevin Evans says:

      I have a labour MSP on Twitter complimenting me on my “gift” of clairvoyance.

    68. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 21 September, 2016 at 3:39 pm:

      “Is the snp hoovering up labour members who can see this as a fraud
      If not why not”

      Well Shug, The SNP are certainly still making progress in gaining members and Labour are certainly still loosing members but whether the two things are related is moot.

      The thing is that it could be many other things that influence Labour members to become former Labour members but if they have waited this long to leave I doubt it has much to do with promised Scottish Labour’s autonomy.

      As Rev Stu’s article is pointing out Labour have been claiming to be autonomous for years. However, anyone, with more than two brain cells, knows, Labour’s claims are generally all male bovine rectally sphinctered waste products.

    69. Tinto Chiel says:

      “So if I vote Scottish Labour can I get rid of Trident yet?”

      Yes, Training Day, The Question Which Will Never Be Asked, at least by our totally corrupt media.

      Good to see Kezia’s usual talent for backing a loser. Maybe by the weekend she’ll be gone too. If Rowley takes over will SLiS______d flip to Yes? Self-preservation after all: certainly not done on principle.

      JLT: left a wee message for you yesterday on O/T.

    70. Lochside says:

      I heard that moron Dugdale on Radio Shortbread being allowed to regurgitate year old shite about ‘getting more autonomy’….a tautology from a totheid. And Brian Barage Baloon toodleloothe noo trying to justify it before a coronary takes him off to that Newsroom in the sky….groundhog day right enough.

      What really makes me sad is that while we’re being hosed down with this horseshit masquerading as news…UK planes and forces are complicit in the mutilation and slaughter of weans and their families in Syria..The images of what is happening all over that part of the world makes me want to greet. The United nations is a sham..a talking shop for heartless duplicitous despots…what can we do to stop the Rotten Uk selling arms to Saudis and backing Israel?…Ask Jim Murphy and the British American Project.

    71. Maria F says:

      become “fully autonomous”

      LOL!!

      Fully autonomous? What does that mean? And what are they at the moment then, half autonomous? 2 thirds and a bit autonomous?

      It sounds very much like the sort of undefined and ambiguous unit of measure used by those big wigs that were talking about becoming ‘the most devolved country in the world’…

    72. heedtracker says:

      So did anyone notice rancid The Graun’s rather nasty deliberate mistake there? Ok I’ll tell you.

      “The SNP, which has consistently goaded the Scottish party as being controlled by “London Labour”, has taken several hundred thousand voters from Labour, pushing it into third place in the Scottish parliament and leaving it with just one MP at Westminster.”

      What that Britnat shower are leaving out today, is that SLab actual lost a lot of SLab voters to the tory party, last Scottish GE. Libby Carrell doesn’t do honest journalism but its the usual sneaky creepy UKOK omission Graun style. And SLab losing votes to the tories probably wasn’t down to future Lady Ruth Davidson either, a working class tory, the best kind of tory.

      Just ask my Slovene girlfriend, common as muck, says he lives in a one party state, good kisser though, and dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty.

      https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins

    73. Hamish100 says:

      Robert McDonald says:

      21 September, 2016 at 3:27 pm

      Isn’t it funny how Labour Hame has nothing to say about the matter. Surely, it it was such a whizzolux thing, they would be trumpeting it like they were/ will on BBC Scotland?

      Surely they are waiting for permission first from London!

    74. heedtracker says:

      On topic of posh boy liggers, Chrichton Torquil is all over the autonomous SLab shop here.

      http://archive.is/OFAEw

      In summary, Autonomous Torquil sez, do it Autonomous Kes but don’t do it Autonomously, just keep the plebs very confused, UKOK hackdom will do the hard bits, with the biggest ever byline photo in world journo history too! Vanity, you are mental as anything.

    75. manandboy says:

      Rarely can the British Establishment have been under such pressure as they are at present. Accumulating pressure from a series of Establishment threatening events, beginning with the IndyRef14 campaign in 2012,the huge rise in the fortunes and presence of the SNP in both Scotland and Westminster, the demise of Labour in Scotland and the LibDems everywhere, and finally, the apocalyptic EU referendum and the rise of a new grassroots political movement following Jeremy Corbyn. Is it any wonder that State propaganda looks like it is on a war footing.

      Democracy is almost gone, free speech is under threat, State spying on the population’s internet and mobile phone use is without limit, and it is clear that the Westminster government is trying to form public opinion after the example of North Korea where the population believe the rest of the world is starving and that North Korea won the last World Cup.
      We are being told that we are on the path to greatness after cutting ourselves off from the EU and with a £1.6 trillion debt and interest payments in excess of £1billion a week!

      As it stands, we are on the path to bankruptcy and ruination.

      So what will the Establishment do under the leadership of Kim Jong-un, no sorry, that should be Mrs May be.

      Myself, I’d prepare for war.

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      (We’ve already noted that it shouldn’t even be possible to do that under UK electoral law, but we can’t see the Electoral Commission getting involved.)

      Anyone can complain to the EC, and it investigates.

    77. Andy smith says:

      Ian brotherhood,
      reading your comment a picture flashed through my head of kezia lining up outside the stalls at last Saturday’s Ayr gold cup !

    78. Maria F at 6.40
      Correct. Your either autonomous or you are not autonomous. There are no degrees of autonomy

    79. Dr Jim says:

      The new and improved autonomous Scottish Labour can now decide anything it likes about anything it likes and even make it their policy…and London Labour will say Scottish Labour is quite right to say these things

      They’re not getting them but we don’t mind them saying what they want because just like before they were autonomous London’s still in charge but we hear what you say

      Just exactly like Theresa May does when she says we want to include everyone in the process and then shut up so’s we the ones in charge can make our decision in peace now that we’ve gone through the motions of having to listen to you Sweaties

    80. Richardinho says:

      It wouldn’t surprise in the slightest if this new ‘autonomy’ simply turns out to be a power grab by the Blairites from the Corbynites.

    81. Dr Jim says:

      And here come Scotland on the charge he shoots Yaaasss!
      A degree of a goal was scored,

      Not a whole goal but almost a complete one, Oh, but hang on, referee Corbyn has dissalowed it for not being totally unanimously autonomous even though it crossed the line… almost, unfortunately it was a Scottish foot that kicked it and therefore must be overuled

      So close

    82. galamcennalath says:

      All this autonomy nonsense. It all revolves around the believe that a percentage of voters do in fact have heads which zip up the back!

      It fits in with everything Unionists have done for at least four years now. Never trying very hard to sell anything by positive message. Never ever engaging in debate with proven facts, oh no, stick to spin, twisting, lying, and fear-mongering. And central to this is that belief that there are enough gullible or uninterested voters to get them through to their next fiasco.

      Here’s a suggestion for them. If they don’t like the idea of IndyRef2 why don’t they stand on a manifesto of no ref. Then attract enough voters to form a government, a coalition even.

      Wait a minute, they did in May. That was rejected. We have a parliament where a majority of MSPs did have another referendum in their manifestos!

      So, when one occurs that is democracy taking its course.

      And that highlights that other aspect of 21stC Unionism – democracy is fine as long as they win. Otherwise they don’t like democracy much!

    83. Stoker says:

      yesindyref2 wrote:

      “Anyone can complain to the EC, and it investigates.”

      Correct, more or less!
      http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/complaints

    84. Petra says:

      @ galamcennalath says at 4:02 pm …. ”The underhand aspect of SLab/Labour’s manoeuvrings is that many ordinary voters will be conned by this autonomy crap.”…

      It’s started already. Bernard Ponsonby on STV news raving about ”significant developments” for Slab. STV scrolling through all of the changes / powers that they’ll have. Not one mention of the fact that if Westminster Labour disagrees with Slab on any policy at all they’re on a hiding to nothing. More than anything this is a totally powerless, incompetent London based political party that’s irreversibly divided ‘giving’ …. ‘power’ to a Scottish party that’s gone down the stank. Overtaken by the Tories in Scotland, FGS.

      Then we had the ‘SNP putting an additional 9 million into NHS to support over the winter months. The opposition say it’s not enough.’

      You know now that when it has anything to do with ‘cut’s’ they (STV) wont interview Moothie the ‘austerity cutting’ Westminster Government’s Scottish trumpeteer. You know it’ll be Rennie (usually moaning about Police Scotland right enough) or someone from Labour, with no follow-up rebuttal from the SNP. Sure enough it was Sarwar complaining, through his blocked nose, that the amount had been cut by .7 million on last year. ”People will suffer (SNP Baad).” Labour’s Sarwar representing a party who had an abysmal record in relation to the NHS (etc, etc). Never ever pointed out by STV.

      Funny too how you never hear anyone, such as Ponsonby, enquire about the 10% cuts SNP / Holyrood has had to deal with, over time, administered by Tory Westminster and backed by their Labour pals. ‘Austerity cuts’ that Labour didn’t have to contend with when they were in power. They had so much money they were handing it back to Westminster whilst their failed PPI initiative was ripping us off. Additionally whilst many people were suffering.

      STV are now well and truly in competition with the BBC to see who can win the prestigious ‘most biased, lying, manipulative’ media award.

    85. heedtracker says:

      C4 teatime news have Jon Macternan saying JC bad in his garden, like a little angry gnome, then C4 ligger goes to investigate JC in Edinburgh and chats to his mum and dad in their kitchen, in Edinburgh. No mention at all of autonomous Kez and autonomous SLabour from C4 crew, shock.

    86. Nana says:

      O/T

      Amber Rudd and Borosso among those named in the latest offshore leaks

      https://www.icij.org/blog/2016/09/icij-publishes-leaked-bahamas-info-offshore-database

      Westminster & this tory lot stink of corruption

      Perhaps heedtracker can provide the guardian link

    87. HandandShrimp says:

      I saw this but just assumed it was part of the continuing internal power struggles in Labour and had absolutely nothing to do with what they think might appeal to voters.

    88. Never mind Labour. I had an interesting conversation with an SNP supporter of Trident. There actually are some.

      “What actual purpose does Trident serve?” I asked.
      “It protects us from attack. It deters our enemies.”
      “So Austria and Holland and Denmark and Italy and so on will have one?”
      “Er. No”
      “So they have no enemies?”
      “No. But they don’t need one….”
      “Ah. Why? perhaps because we’ve got it?”
      “Well yes…..”
      “Okay. So who’s going to attack us?”
      “Enemies of the west.”
      “So we are protecting “the west”?”
      “Probably…..”
      “Don’t you maybe mean America?”
      “Well, perhaps…..”
      “So why isn’t Trident up the Hudson River, 23 miles from New York?”
      “Well, that would be bit dangerous, surely…….”
      “Exactly. That’s like what the MOD said in 2013. Trident, they said, couldn’t be moved to the south coast of England because of the danger it posed to a civilian population. Do you live in Greenock or Helensburgh?”
      “No. I live in Argyll”
      “Oh, that’s OK then. But they’d get about 28 seconds if there was a nuclear attack or a big nuclear accident”
      “Oh.”
      “And most of Central Scotland would curl up and die in the following months. So let’s go back a bit. Why would anybody actually want to attack Scotland?”
      “Dunno……”
      “Could it be because we’ve got a nuclear base?”
      “But, but, but – look at all the jobs….”
      “Aye. All 552 of them……For that we become the world’s biggest target”
      “What? 552 jobs?”
      “Yes. 552. And here’s what Hammond told North Korea. Having nuclear weapons doesn’t protect you, he told them. They make you a target.”
      Mumble.
      “So Scotland is expendable?”
      “I didn’t say that……”
      “Didn’t you?”

    89. DerekM says:

      lol thanks guys i have to admit to wanting oor Jim back i still have 10 pages of material to use,trust him to go get his jotters before i had even got to the good stuff lmao 😉

    90. Stoker says:

      Haw Dippy, just like the back seat driver you’ll get to voice your feigned authority but we all know who’s truly in control and if you’re really lucky you might just get to drive the wee pink bus.

      From WOS Twitter feed
      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs0wLEgW8AEosiy.jpg

      From Cairnstoon
      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs1K9YVXYAEjt85.jpg

    91. Hamish100 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      Good one.

      Stay with rUK Union we get nuclear weapons and illegal wars

      Stay with EU we can get rid off nuclear weapons and we choose what we should do re military. eg remain neutral

    92. Lochside says:

      Channel 4 news: irony bypass…McTernan talking about ‘saving Labour by going back to the ’80s’ and Owen ‘ Labour yoof’ mouthpiece talking to his solid Labour parents in Edinburgh…which he admits ‘seems like a million miles away from London’..ffs more settlers who live in an English metropolitan bubble in little England of Edinburgh…no recognition of Scotland, its polity, its being on the brink of Indy…just same old Anglocentric blind Corbynista crap…and no mention of SLAB ‘AUTONOMY’ either!

    93. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill –

      Soo-perb!

    94. Petra says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill says at 8:20 pm …. ”Never mind Labour. I had an interesting conversation with an SNP supporter of Trident. There actually are some. “What actual purpose does Trident serve?” I asked. “It protects us from attack. It deters our enemies.”

      Good one Dave. Additionally didn’t seem to deter the Argentinians from invading the Falklands.

    95. DerekM says:

      Nice bit of enlightenment Dave McEwan Hill there is absolutely no need for Scotland to have Nuke bombs or Nuke power in our country both make you a potential target,you should maybe have mentioned the 16 Tuplov M`s targeting Scotland right this very second though vlad will only push da big button if his country is attacked by warmongering Nato.

      Aye gulp get those fucking nukes out my country.

    96. Jim Thomson says:

      delete “autonomous” insert “automatons”

    97. Swiss Perspective says:

      Well surely the whole meaning of the exercise stands or fall on the basis of whether Scottish Labour MPs will be subject to the London party’s whip. If they get their own whip, then it will be of consequence. If not, then it is indeed meaningless.

    98. Petra says:

      ‘Kevin McKenna: Darling and his Better Together disciples make it hard to see a way back for Labour.’

      ”For many voters who said Yes to independence two years ago the most dispiriting aspect of an otherwise vivid and rewarding campaign of civic engagement was the conduct of many senior figures in the Labour Party in Scotland. From the very beginning of the campaign Labour Party members who had dared publicly to consider voting for independence found that retribution from within the People’s Party was swift and brutal. Many were hounded out of constituency parties that they’d served faithfully for years. They were derided as “Nationalist stooges” by party managers who had foolishly assumed that these disruptors represented a tiny faction within the party.”……

      ….”There was also a degree of bemusement at the fervour and passion with which many Labour figures attacked independence and defended the Union. Would that Jim Murphy or Alistair Darling had displayed similar intensity and selfless daily commitment to defending the tens of thousands of their supporters whose families’ futures were being threatened by the party with whom they were all so keen to link arms during the referendum.” ….

      ….”Only one political entity is in mortal political peril and that’s the Labour Party in Scotland. This party, which once possessed a sense of entitlement to the popular vote in Scotland, is now languishing behind the Tories, thanks in no small measure to the disastrous leadership of Better Together by Darling and his chinas. Several of their most high-profile figures still gleefully advance the myth of the referendum being “divisive” and beastly. In doing so, they simply give the party’s former supporters another reason not to return to the fold any time soon.” …

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/kevin-mckenna-darling-and-his-better-together-disciples-make-it-hard-to-see-a-way-back-for-labour.22644

    99. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Those of an SNP sensitive nature please look away 🙂

      http://archive.is/04n9C

      Look at the comments of btl poster CR for this, and also in the article Bruce Crawford, SNP MSP.

      This commmittee is functioning as it should, and dare I say, that’s because it’s a minority SNP Government and they can’t flood committees with an SNP majority.

      But look again at the comments by CR, who has often been able to rise above tribalism even though he joined the Labour party at the same time as I joined the SNP for which I’ve felt a bit of an – opposing – bond since. I joined SNP for Indy after the Ref, he joined Labour for the Union.

      I’ve come across a fair few people who don’t like the SNP’s “dictatorial” ways, and I think there is some justification for this. Some have given that as a reason for voting NO. To my mind the best thing the SNP could do for the cause of Indy is take a look at themselves, institute reform at all levels including in the party itself, but obviously in the way they do Government. I have to say I’ve been underimpressed with the way Derek McKay does his bit as chair at conferences.

      Probably the easiest thing they could do is launch a commission with the remit of looking at how reforming the way committees are chosen, structured, and perhaps giving them a little more power in day to day parliamentary proceedings as well.

    100. Petra says:

      Ooops just noticed that the article may be blocked. This is the full article.

      ‘Kevin McKenna: Darling and his Better Together disciples make it hard to see a way back for Labour.’

      ”For many voters who said Yes to independence two years ago the most dispiriting aspect of an otherwise vivid and rewarding campaign of civic engagement was the conduct of many senior figures in the Labour Party in Scotland. From the very beginning of the campaign Labour Party members who had dared publicly to consider voting for independence found that retribution from within the People’s Party was swift and brutal. Many were hounded out of constituency parties that they’d served faithfully for years. They were derided as “Nationalist stooges” by party managers who had foolishly assumed that these disruptors represented a tiny faction within the party.

      It was one of several extraordinary misjudgements made by senior Labour Party figures and their highly paid strategists and advisers. Around one-third of Labour Party supporters were found to have voted Yes and as Labour’s referendum errors and misjudgements mounted up weekly, so the seeds of future electoral annihilation were being sown. These Labour supporters, sickened by the way they had been treated by their own party, turned their backs on it and walked into the arms of the SNP. They were joined by tens of thousands of others who felt betrayed and let down by the gusto with which senior party figures joined with the Tories on Unionist platforms.

      The way many of them conducted themselves as the final result was delivered left an unpleasant after-taste. No-one is suggesting that Labour supporters who felt sincerely that Scotland’s future would be better served within the Union were not entitled to feel pleased. As the final outcome began to materialise, several facets of Labour triumphalism began to grate.

      Tory fervour for the Union was rooted in cultural and social beliefs far different to those that ought to have fuelled Labour support for the status quo. In the three centuries or so that have elapsed since the Union was created it has helped to preserve the power, influence and wealth of a tiny and privileged syndicate representing a narrow bandwidth of interests. The Union provides the oxygen and means of sustaining this cartel.

      The wars of adventure and the plundering of foreign lands to extend the empire was not done for the greater glory of Britannia and its people but to enrich a few aristocrats and industrialists by grabbing land, annexing goods and enslaving people. It was little wonder that the British establishment deployed all means at its disposal to save the Union.

      There could have been a separate and authentic Labour narrative for supporting the Union which would have applied a moral and ethical clamp on any suggestions of sharing stages with the Tories.

      There was also a degree of bemusement at the fervour and passion with which many Labour figures attacked independence and defended the Union. Would that Jim Murphy or Alistair Darling had displayed similar intensity and selfless daily commitment to defending the tens of thousands of their supporters whose families’ futures were being threatened by the party with whom they were all so keen to link arms during the referendum.

      Andrew Tickell, who blogs as Lallands Peat Worrier, has written vividly of sharing a cigarette with me outside the BBC on referendum night as the outcome began to reveal itself. We were interrupted by Margaret Curran who was so overcome by the moment that, in the words of Andrew, she performed “a jinking danse macabre”. That moment is embedded in my consciousness, too, and won’t easily be dislodged.

      The bleating and faux outrage of Murphy, Darling, Brian Wilson and a host of other Labour figures at the “nastiness” and “bitterness” of the campaign was dishonest and insulting to the 3.6 million people who had participated in what overseas observers were describing as “the gold standard” of democratic engagement.

      That Darling is still advancing this nonsense two years later suggests that no lessons have been learned by Labour in Scotland even as it teeters on the brink of oblivion. Darling’s victory speech in the early hours of September 19 struck a shrill and sour tone and possessed not an ounce of grace or humility. It was no surprise when he scuttled off soon afterwards into the ample arms of Morgan Stanley to help the world’s super-rich preserve their assets – a fitting corollary to his efforts in saving the Union.

      In marking the second anniversary of the Scottish independence referendum Darling also took the opportunity to offer a few words of warning to Nicola Sturgeon about the dangers of holding a second one. With the sort of wisdom he had used while leading a Better Together campaign which shipped 17 percentage points in less than two years, Darling said: “If she loses, she knows she would be finished. That’s why she is in no hurry to rush into it.”

      Such a statement ignores the fact that, so long as the SNP keep winning Scottish elections by huge margins, its leader is virtually bombproof.

      Only one political entity is in mortal political peril and that’s the Labour Party in Scotland. This party, which once possessed a sense of entitlement to the popular vote in Scotland, is now languishing behind the Tories, thanks in no small measure to the disastrous leadership of Better Together by Darling and his chinas. Several of their most high-profile figures still gleefully advance the myth of the referendum being “divisive” and beastly. In doing so, they simply give the party’s former supporters another reason not to return to the fold any time soon.

      They persist in this fiction while sabotaging all attempts by its democratically elected leader, Jeremy Corbyn, to lead the party. The most important political task in the UK after that of actually governing the nation is that of opposing the serving administration so that there is proper scrutiny and accountability of its legislation. The attempted coup to remove Corbyn, supported by Labour’s Scottish leader, has wrecked any chance of proper opposition to the Tories at Westminster.

      Yesterday, my friend David told me that his wife, a Tory supporter all her days, had just paid her £25 to join the Labour Party. “She just thinks that Corbyn’s the real deal: an honest politician who genuinely wants to improve the lives of the many. There’s definitely something stirring in the country.”

      There is something stirring and it’s more important than ditching your values to earn a shot at compromised government. Once more though, Labour in Scotland, just as it did in the first independence referendum, has failed to read the sings of the times.”

    101. Big Jock says:

      I think Slabours definition of autonomous is not the same definition as is in the Oxford English Dictionary. Unless of course I don’t fully understand what autonomy means.

      I am autonomous in my house under these rules. I express my opinions and my wife makes the decisions.

    102. Fred says:

      When is a “Kept Wummin” ever autonomous?

    103. Andrew McLean says:

      Any Labour Party member in Scotland who thinks this is a great idea should ask themselves why?
      Most independent minded labour members have already joined the SNP.
      Most remaining Labour Party members left are unionists.
      Unionists don’t like any separate identity in their ukok world.

      So what is it for, only to trick gullible voters, a political ploy to fool the electorate, the party of the great John McLean reduced to this, I actually feel ashamed for them.

      Back in the real world this is the real position of so called Scottish Labour.

      The Scottish Labour Party is registered as an Accounting Unit (AU) of the Labour Party with the Electoral Commission and is therefore not a separately registered political party under the terms of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. As such Scottish Labour does not have a “party leader”, although Kezia Dugdale is currently leading the Scottish division of the UK party. At party conferences she appears under the title “Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland”.

    104. Petra says:

      Just reading about Theresa May being outed by Amal Clooney at the UN. She’ll no like that!

      The Sun: ‘Theresa May was last night panned by celebrity neighbour (village of Sonning) Amal Clooney for not letting more refugees into the UK.

      George Clooney’s wife, Human Rights lawyer, spoke out at the UN in New York. She said Britain had so far given asylum to only one family of Yazidis fleeing the IS genocide in the Middle East.

      The criticism will be highly embarrassing for the PM especially as Germany has given asylum to a million refugees in the last year and 70,000 of those have been Yazidis.’

    105. DerekM says:

      They structured the party that way yesindyref because they figured out the most important aspect of being a political party is to keep a tight grip on factions inside the party,yes it does seem a strange concept probably because we have never seen it being used well the yoons are all over the place they preach about party loyalty but in reality its their own personal interests that is their loyalty.

      As a party made up of both the right,left and center thinking people its imperative that the center keeps party discipline on the right and left,we dont want them getting in an argument over policy when the collective goal we all seek is in our grasp,that is what the SNP is about independence and dont let any yoon hack or dead wood politician try to tell you other wise.

      Just like us yessers they have agreed to wait until after indy before they do politics which will mean probably the end of the SNP in its present form though it would be nice to have such a disciplined multi political party all working together in consensus in an indy Scotland.

      I like the way they operate its professional well thought out and plenty of room for talent to climb through the party ranks i would never say it is perfect,and if you are one of those far left socialist indy types that like to shout your mouth off then it will not be long before the party comes down on you like a ton of bricks.

      They are after all an elected government its not playtime at the primary school and Scotland (that`s us) demand a level from them that they have never demanded from any other political party.

      So if they seem a bit dictatorial it is for a good reason the fight for independence.

      Oh and i am not SNP but i know how political parties operate well i thought i did the SNP have taking it to a new level 🙂

    106. Smallaxe says:

      Fred:
      Have you been back at 11% recently?

      Peace Always

    107. manandboy says:

      Whenever Kezia Dugdale appears in the Scottish media it usually means that there’s bad news somewhere else in Union land. KD is a stooge, not a main player. She doesn’t merit headlines or any kind of media attention in her own right.

    108. Cadogan Enright says:

      Embarrassing

      Question – did anyone see if the EBC ran this story with a straight face?

    109. Phronesis says:

      The proportion of the Scottish social security budget that will devolve to Scotland amounts to £2.7 billion or (15%) of the total £17.5 billion.

      Powers are being devolved over the following benefits:

      -Ill Health and Disability Benefits which means – Disability Living Allowance (DLA), Personal Independence Payment (PIP), Attendance Allowance (AA), Severe Disablement Allowance (SDA) and Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit (IIDB)
      -Carer’s Allowance
      -Sure Start Maternity Grants (replaced by the Best Start Grant)
      -Funeral Payments
      -Cold Weather Payments and Winter Fuel Payments
      -Discretionary Housing Payments
      -Some powers in relation to Universal Credit (i.e.to split payments between household members)

      What is not devolved to Scotland:
      -Universal Credit (which replaces Jobseeker’s Allowance, -Income Related Employment Support Allowance, Working Tax -Credits, Child Tax Credits, and Housing Benefit)
      -State Pension and Pension Credit
      -Contributory Employment Support Allowance
      -Child benefit
      -Maternity and Paternity Pay

      https://reformscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Reform-Scotland-Scotlands-new-powers-March-2016.pdf

      Does that define autonomy? Why must Scotland look to WM for advice/ guidance /permission on any aspect of Scotland’s socio-economic choices?

      Is WM stuffed full of experts in democracy or are they experts in managing the expectations of the 0.1%.

      If WM was good at its day job we wouldn’t be on the road to serfdom that the political elite has led us to through indefensible policies underpinned by their appalling judgements. The emergent precariat class, social exclusion, employment and social security systems increasingly exposed to financial market tempests will not be rectified by the profiteers and racketeers of the current system of non-regulation.

      As Walter Lippmann (1925 , The Phantom Public) remarked ‘I have not happened to meet anybody, from a President of the United States to a professor of political science ,who came anywhere near to embodying the accepted ideal of the sovereign and omnicompetent citizen’.

      The YES movement is embodied by the ‘experts by experience’ who are actively engaged with shaping the narrative of Scotland. They fully understand what autonomy means.

    110. Betty Boop says:

      @ Proud Cybernat, 4:11pm

      Autonomous? Given that they have only one MP in Scotland and they’re saying the same thing over and over, it should be monotonous.

      Okay, that did make me laugh.

    111. Chic McGregor says:

      Another electron runs through the policy unit of SLAB looking for a neuron to fire on.

      REspectful apologies to Oliver Brown.

    112. Papadox says:

      Just watched Kezia on Scotland tonight, A complete ass—e with verbal diarrhoea, absolute bampot, hypocrite and liar. And that is some of her strengths.

    113. Ian Sanderson says:

      Precisely who is paying for all this autonomy..?

    114. Chic McGregor says:

      Aunt Sally: Can I be autumnolous Worzel

      Worzel Gummidge: Autumnolous? OH! you means ‘autonomous’ mi dear.
      Corse ye can, Corse. Now just you runs along now and makes me and Mr Crowman ‘ere a nass cups o tea.

    115. Tam Jardine says:

      Greater autonomy… next up will be a big relaunch… then a major speech by brown. It is the slab tailspin.

      OT I missed this gem from the BBC my big brother flagged up- the BBC’s use of the pejorative term “Jock” in its headline.

      The predictable defence trotted out by the BBC complaint droid is hilarious taken in context of the Joanna Cherry faux outrage:

      “I’m sorry that you were offended by the use of the word “Jock” in the headline – it was certainly not our intention to offend. It is worth pointing out that this article was produced by our Scottish news team, who had not considered the reference to be offensive, in this context. It had been intended as a play on words on the term Shock Jock.”

      https://archive.is/TBL8q

      Can one imagine a headline using the term Mick or Taff or whatever? Is this really where we are now? Living in a country where the state broadcaster is using derogatory terms for us in their headlines?

    116. chris kilby says:

      Why would “Scottish” Labour want to be autonomous? If we are Better Together, aren’t they Better Together too?

      I’m so confused. Not as confused as Kezia, though.

    117. heedtracker says:

      Can one imagine a headline using the term Mick or Taff or whatever? Is this really where we are now? Living in a country where the state broadcaster is using derogatory terms for us in their headlines?

      Its a neat little display of English socio economic and cultural domination linguistic really, Jock, Mick, Taff,…?

      Although they tend to break it down into Scouse, Geordie, Brummie, Cockney. They also take umbrage at the difference, as the terms only cover accents, you see. There isn’t a term for the nasally PR BBC honk that can turn cream sour but is meant to be an aspiration for all of the above accents.

    118. Ronnie says:

      heedtracker,

      “Sassenach” or “Sooth-Moother”?

      or…?

    119. K1 says:

      There isn’t a term for the nasally PR BBC honk that can turn cream sour but is meant to be an aspiration for all of the above accents.

      Snobs.

      ———————–

      Autonomous. My. Arse.

    120. heedtracker says:

      Ronnie says:
      21 September, 2016 at 11:29 pm
      heedtracker,

      “Sassenach” or “Sooth-Moother”?

      or…?

      Lets face it, there is none really. Although just prefacing anything with, English …. and that tends do the trick. Or it should but then the race card is often played. Never accept the race card. There is no English race, just human. Which rancid The Graun says is actually African. Should give gits like Farage and Phil the Greek something to chew on.

      http://archive.is/xlH6M

    121. yesindyref2 says:

      @DerekM
      Fair comment.

      In which case they need to separate internal politics from external ones!

    122. Smallaxe says:

      Nasally PR BBC honk:Toffs Snash. Your welcome:-)

      Peace Always

    123. Chic McGregor says:

      Scotland has not been inhabitable for long enough on the evolutionary timescale to have evolved it’s own race. In evolutionary terms, despite it’s ancient history, it is one of the newest countries on the planet.

      Everyone here is an immigrant or descended from one.

      OTOH it does have a historically distinctive culture and one which is now hanging on by the skin of it’s teeth, despite the contributions to the World it has made in the past.

      Can it be saved? Is the first question.
      Should it be saved? Is the second.

      In my opinion, I feel it is potentially of far more use to the advancement of civilization to have the different cultural perspectives of a nation state of 5.4 million people in Scotland plus that of an English nation state with a population of 54 million people rather than simply increasing the population of England to 59 million.

      I realise the above neglects Wales and N.I., but in the interests of keeping it simple…

    124. Dr Jim says:

      Why should Scotlands finance secretary be giving a running commentary on his budget before the English chancellor announces his and how much of that budget is going to be cut

      Is the SNP to show it’s hand before the English Tories decide what they’re doing, that doesn’t sound wise

      How come it’s OK for Theresa May not to tell anybody anything about anything but not cricket for the SNP to do the same

      The SNP won and are still winning, they’re not just a different Labour party, so ideas from ex Labour party members are welcome and listened to but only inasmuch as mistakes to be learned from not to repeat the ones they lost by

      New members who came from Labour are a good thing but they must also accept the SNP way is different from the old Labour way
      I’m very pleased to be a member of the only party in Scotland who actually IS Autonomous (Wee Jaggy bit for Kezia there)

    125. Still Positive. says:

      Dr Jim @ 12.22am

      Totally agree.

      Only ever voted Labour if there was no SNP candidate standing, although I did, on more than one occasion, put in a blank ballot paper.

    126. manandboy says:

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-triggers-eu-power-struggle-between-merkel-and-juncker-a-1100852-2.html

      Reading the article referenced above, I had to admit to myself that I knew very little indeed about the EU. Not only that, but that what I did know came from the British media.

      I have resolved to learn more about the running of the EU, and to ignore everything I see coming from Westminster on the subject of Europe. After all, England lies to us Scots about virtually everything, why would anyone trust them on any subject, particularly Europe in light of Brexit.

    127. Macart says:

      To Kezia on being ‘autonomous’.

      No…. you’re not.

      Next.

    128. manandboy says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37427957
      Kenny McCaskill in the Herald and Alex Neil in the Holyrood Magazine don’t see Indyref2 coming soon. Mildly depressing reading. Brexit most certainly has not been a boon to the cause of Independence and with the UK government making no progress, it looks like it’s going to be a long wait before IndyRef2 gets the starting gun.

    129. Kevin Evans says:

      Watched Scotland tonight and the piece with the Scottish aid worker David Haynes brother.

      It brought back the memory of the press in Scotland before the referendum using this tragedy to dis the yes campaign. I remember the news paper headline stating Scottish independence was the reason they targetted David for execution.

      Never forget the horrid reporting and tactics these people used to say anything bad during the campaign. Disgusting people

    130. Robert Graham says:

      Not sure if anyones still up, O/T if i can .
      I just Watched a debate from Holyrood the subject of the debate ” the crisis in staffing levels in the Scottish health service” The heading gives you an idea of where it originated ,we had an almost uninterrupted diatribe from a f/kn Tory Rubbishing anything the SNP has achieved on health , while listening to this pish i thought of dozens of stinging putdowns to counter this total rubbish that seemed to drone on for ages when the Tory finally sat down i was waiting for the shit storm and the thunderous savage reply from our Minister Shona Robison , Oh well what a bloody disappointment what a total open goal a half hearted reply, surely we can do better , to allow a Tory to ramble on talking pish without as much as a comment to break up this diatribe is unforgivable, hit them between eyes kick them in the nuts ,they have 20% of the vote give them 20% respect , disgusted with the Tory but bloody annoyed with the half hearted reply come on get a f/n grip I mean on the NHS it’s a bloody slam dunk as the yanks would say , stop being polite she even allowed Jackson the tailor to intervene in her reply , listen after what could have been a 10 minute rant from a Tory you allow a interruption from another! one tell them to GTF .

    131. Smallaxe says:

      Robert: I feel your pain,things like this are happening all the time and not just the NHS,it’s with everything,the Tory idiots
      should be ripped apart by any high school kid,they are the cause of most of our problems and yet time after time they seem to be given an easy ride.

      If it is part of some sort of plan by the SNP then I for one
      don’t get it in the slightest,it’s so frustrating to watch and
      listen to them spouting pish and no one metaphorically choking
      them off and getting them Telt.They are sitting targets,especially as you said with the NHS, I despair at times really I don’t get it and never will.

      Peace Always

    132. Liz g says:

      Robert Graham @ 2.17
      I’m a bit of a night owl as well.
      Didn’t see the debate but just a thought or two.

      Sometimes the best way to handle a Rant is to seem calm and unaffected by someone’s nonsense.

      Westminster has quite a bad reputation for launching into barney’s and I think the SNP always try not to do it.
      But I do agree that it is very frustrating to watch especially when you or I have thought of a dozen ways to “tear strip’s” of those lying fool’s.

      I like to think that it’s more frustrating for them when they fail to get a rise out of the SNP even when the most farfetched statements are made.

      Statements they have spent time on and they think make them look smart/professional and ready to humiliate the opposition,and the SNP just react like it’s just another hissy fit and more or less say… well whatever.
      Now I could be wrong in thinking that this is a deliberate tactic,who knows.
      But it does happen quite often and if we can think of rebuttals then I’m pretty sure the SNP can, so I take it they are just trying to be annoying.

      What do you think…..if you’re still up?

    133. Breeks says:

      If Westminster is so hollow that the SNP has a policy to frustrate right wing diatribes with passive indifference because allowing themselves to be provoked just provides the media with ammunition to present the SNP as unhinged, it rather begs the question, what is the point of being there?

      Wouldn’t the effect be the same if there as just an empty seat?

      Westminster and its pet media is a puppet show masquerading as government. It is Westminster’s twisted delight with playing games and manipulating opinions which has caused Brexit to happen, and now that the UK needs inspired professional government to extricate the UK from the huge political and economic feck-up that Brexit actually is, there is nobody, not one, with enough backbone, integrity, or intellect to step up to the plate. All of their competence lies in faux sincerity and playing to the press gallery.

      A century ago, millions marched off to war which would see them described as lions led by donkeys. A century later it is still the same Etonian Elite and old school tie brigade who get the poor and the powerless to pay the price and suffer the hardship of their deluded institutional incompetence and narrow minded prejudices.

      When you take a look at it all through a natural history lense, it isn’t easy to categorise the phenomenon. It isn’t the evolutionary battle of predator verses prey, it isn’t symbiosis of one animals species interlocking with another for mutual benefit. It isn’t the sharing communism of schooling fish working together in synchronicity. There are parallels with swarming insects where clones and drones serve a tiny elite from cradle to grave, but a drone ant has evolved to his specialist roll as an integral necessity and dispensed with all potential to be anything else except a drone.

      Nope. The only observation I can see in the way the UK runs is that it is a parasitic society which preys on its own species. That is an abomination which, for the life of me, I cannot see practiced with any success anywhere else in nature.

    134. gerry parker says:

      Man and boy at 12:37

      http://www.scotlandineurope.eu/wee_bleu_book

      Essential reading for anyone trying to debunk the EU myths being spread by the usual culprits and parroted by those who derive their opinions from them.

    135. Ken500 says:

      Labour is funded from London central Office. It never would be autonomous. It is illegal. The piper pays the tune.

      Labour central Office doesn’t even know what the policies are because of a split in the Party. Corbyn is useless and could bore for Britain. A politician who continued in a Party whose policies he fundamentally disagreed. No better or worse than the rest of the Unionist politicians. Westminster Parties are just one dangerous mess. Scotland needs out of it.

      Blair and Brown destroyed the labour Party with illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. May Thatcher can’t walk and talk at the same time.

      The Tories are sanctioning and starving the vulnerable and trying to take the UK out of the EU against the majority wishes. Appalling.

      Vote SNP/SNP May 2017.

    136. scotspine says:

      @ Breeks.

      Beautifully said.

    137. Petra says:

      One wonders how you can actually compare NHS figures in relation to England versus Scotland. A bit like the education fiasco.

      We knew that the situation in England was pretty bad, for example as per Ruth Davidson, but it would seem that it’s worse than we thought as they’ve been covering up some of the facts, surprise, surprise.

      I was just listening to the BBC news and heard that a Freedom of Information request has uncovered that tens of thousands of operations (41,000) that were cancelled in England last year (and previous years?) have not been officially counted / recorded, surprise, surprise!

      The figures only apply to 74 out of 156 NHS Trusts in England, as the other 82 Trusts still haven’t submitted figures so the number could be double or more (if they’ve got something to hide).

      Seemingly they only record cancellations that are made on the day of the operation, not in the weeks or days beforehand.

      This ruling doesn’t apply to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

      Talk about being sneaky ba*tards.

    138. Ken500 says:

      The SNP Scottish Gov put extra money into the SNHS. Westminster is trying to cut £20Billion off NHS spending rather than increasing it as is necessary. The threatened junior Doctor’s strikes in England might concentrate a few minds.

      The Tories were elected to protect NHS and cut the debt. They have done neither. Sanctioning vulnerable people. Cold, hungry, worried people get sick. Spending £Billions on grotesques over budget projects with no business case. Hinkley Point and HS2. So they and their associates can plunder public money. Starving and killing the vulnerable. Illegal wars.

      The Tory/Unionists committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. They are not even the legitimately elected government. Trying to take the majority out of the EU. They will not succeed.

    139. HeehawBaws says:

      In a nutshell, Labour is officially allowed to tell Scotland that its policies are the opposite to what they actually are. #LabourElectoralFraud

    140. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Right on time for coffee Nana.Thank you 🙂

      Peace Love and Links xx

    141. Smallaxe says:

      Liz g:

      If I’d known that you were still awake I would have happily chatted with you, I thought everyone else was sleeping so after I posted at 3:10am I went on to listen to music. I just
      missed you by a few minutes,pity.

      Peace Love and night Owls

    142. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:
      at 1:48 am

      “Brexit most certainly has not been a boon to the cause of Independence”

      Not on the bottom line figures, but there is the dozenish percent who have allegedly moved each way.

      Once Brexit negotiations become public (which may be some time) the Hellish reality will become apparent.

      YESs who swapped to NO will surely see again the UK as a much bigger problem for Scotland than the EU and return. As things develop, I find it hard to imagine folks who previously voted YES won’t see the UK as even worse next time. They may not like the EU but the UK is the bigger threat by far.

      NOs who swapped to YES will have the wisdom of their decision reinforced.

      Nothing has actually happened on the Brexit front. Just wait until the horror unfolds!

    143. Smallaxe says:

      Breeks:

      We are prey to a beast who’s hunger is insatiable! Charles Darwin would have had problems trying to explain this phenomenon.Excellent observation.Maybe David Icke is partially
      correct in this freaky behaviour.

      Peace Always

    144. galamcennalath says:

      HeehawBaws says:

      “In a nutshell, Labour is officially allowed to tell Scotland that its policies are the opposite to what they actually are.”

      Concisely and accurately put. Sounds like electoral fraud to me!

      They’ve all been branding themselves Scottish for decades. However, as someone pointed out above, Kezia’s official title is something like Leader of Labour in Scotland.

      Labour in Scotland is correct. Scottish Labour means something quite different.

    145. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 6:27 am …. ”If Westminster is so hollow that the SNP has a policy to frustrate right wing diatribes with passive indifference because allowing themselves to be provoked just provides the media with ammunition to present the SNP as unhinged, it rather begs the question, what is the point of being there? Wouldn’t the effect be the same if there as just an empty seat?” ….

      Great post Breeks.

      ……….

      @ Robert Graham saysat 2:17 am …. ”I just watched a debate from Holyrood the subject of the debate ”the crisis in staffing levels in the Scottish health service.” The heading gives you an idea of where it originated, we had an almost uninterrupted diatribe from a f/kn Tory rubbishing anything the SNP has achieved on health, while listening to this pish i thought of dozens of stinging putdowns to counter this total rubbish that seemed to drone on for ages when the Tory finally sat down i was waiting for the shit storm and the thunderous savage reply from our Minister Shona Robison, Oh well what a bloody disappointment what a total open goal a half hearted reply, surely we can do better.”……

      I didn’t see it Robert but can visualise it and like Smallaxe can feel your pain too.

      I watched the Claim of Right debate recently that Patrick Grady SNP MP had requested be discussed at Westminster. Michael Gove, Alberto Costa, Ian Murray et al used it as a platform to stand up and (go on and on and on) very convincingly run the SNP and Scotland down to the ground. If I didn’t know better I would have been taken in by them. If you didn’t see it check it out on Hansard.

      https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-09-06/debates/16090639000001/ClaimOfRightForScotland

      I thought that Patrick Grady would be jotting down some notes relating to every lie that they told and when they had finished their spiel would stand up and counter their claims. Better still throw in a few facts about Scotland versus England, but NO.

      The opposition are on the ball. The name of their game of course relates to brainwashing and influencing the viewers. They cram in as much (false) data as is possible in the short time that they have, say if it relates to a television programme, and of course can drag it out for even longer if it’s a behind the scenes debate. Over and above cramming in as much as they can they use strategies such as interrupting to ensure they break your concentration / the flow of conversation … take you off in a tangent to ensure that you can’t have your say …. don’t get your point across. If there’s more than one ‘opposer’, as seems to have been the case re. the staffing levels, they work in tandem with each other.

      I support the SNP 100% but they really need to get their act together. They don’t have to be nasty or uncivil just come across as being truthful, knowledgeable and professional. They could start by holding role play classes for example by pretending that they are facing someone like Andrew Neil (ha, ha!). I don’t know … just a suggestion. Whatever the case they’ll have to get their act together and soon, as the Unionists are going to be upping the ante over the next couple of years or so.

      http://www.mindtools.com/CommSkll/RolePlaying.htm

      They could also think about disseminating some information and throwing it in our (and the publics) direction, such as an approximate breakdown of GDP figures relating to an Independent Scotland, potential revenue figures relating to the renewable energy sector in comparison to the oil sector, the type / percentage of Scottish goods being shipped from English ports and so on. Information like that would help make us a more competent fighting force instead of us all having to spend time searching for data and trying to figure things out for ourselves.

    146. Haggishunter says:

      Watched it on the Brit establishments news service last night.

      Why did I get the feeling it has failure written all over it and the Establishment’s gloss is all show and fake with nothing but crap underneath it?

    147. OT;- It is reported that there is a 7 mile tail back on the M8 this morning. I demand that one of the red blue or yellow Tories hold Nicola Sturgeon to account for this at FMQ today.
      Well, it will help pad out the Go Large 45 minute session introduced by the new presiding officer, won’t it?

    148. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      If you have time take a look at O/T 9:38pm last night for one
      of my wee daft rhymes. 🙂

      Peace Love and “Poetry?”

    149. manandboy says:

      Stephen Pound, the London MP, appeared to give the plan more support, believing Dugdale herself could join the NEC as the Scottish representative. “Why on Earth would a London MP have anything to say on this subject?” he told The National.

      Told that the matter would go to the UK conference, he added: “Kezia is a bright, intelligent and positive person who would be an absolute adornment to the NEC. We need people with her brain power on the NEC. However, I rather suspect she has work to do in Scotland rather than spending time down here.”

      Is it any wonder Labour isn’t working very well.

    150. Papadox says:

      Will we still have tartan night at the Engerlish Labour Party conference? Or has that been buried alongwith the Scottish branch office scam?

    151. Smallaxe says:

      Jack Collatin: M8

      7 mile tailback,it’s reportedly Ruth the Uncouth on a water Buffalo going to her “work” that’s causing the problem. 🙂

      Peace Always

    152. Effijy says:

      As mentioned above, it seems that NHS England is hiding the true stats on the number of operations cancelled.

      Does anyone in Scotland think that heads might role for covering up such important information that helps to mask the sheer incompetence of Tory Lead NHS England?

      A figure was put forward of roughly 31,500 cancelled operations at the last minute, however a further 41,500 were not counted as they cancelled with a couple of days notice.

      The figures come from less than half of England’s NHS Trust, as the remainder have not yet submitted.

      You may recall the fake outrage when Labour and their BBC Lap dog showed outrage at 3,000 operations, approx. 1.5%, being cancelled across the whole of Scotland.
      The above figure was due to many reasonable factors such as the patient improving or deteriorating rapidly, Surgeons or theatre staff being ill or unable to travel due to weather conditions etc.

      The Rev’s research showed that when Labour controlled our NHS Services, prior to all the austerity cuts, with fewer patients and procedures available, 5% of operations were cancelled.

      If England has around 11 times the population of Scotland, proportionately England should have around 33,000 cancelled operations, but it seems that less than half of England’s Trusts have cancelled around 73,000 operations.

      Could this SNP Bad NHS Scotland carried by the Westminster parties and all their elitist owned media outlets actually be around 5 times worse in England?

      NHS England failing in Student Mental Health support.
      They killed a young man with mental health issues yesterday through incompetence.

      NHS England failing to stop patients becoming addicted to repeat prescription pain killers.

      NHS England managers claim NHS is now at breaking point, and cannot sustain the pressures for treatments put on it with current funding and staff numbers.

      NHS England to impose working conditions on Striking Doctors, which has caused several hundred thousand other
      operations and treatments to be cancelled weeks ahead of schedule.

      10% of NHS England has been privatised so far!

      Labour’s NHS Wales performing below Tory NHS England Levels.

      Now then, do you have anything more valuable than your health? Do you want to risk your health by listening to Westminster Parties and their media, or can you see just how GOOD SNP & NHS Scotland are for you and your family?

      NHS England are one sever winter, and one more series of Junior Doctor strikes away from major privatisation.

      Some 300 members of the House of Lords will be very pleased with their investments in Health Companies who will take over when the sticking plaster falls off.

    153. Clootie says:

      If Labour in Scotland is autonomous does that mean the campaign buses from Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle etc will no longer be bringing North young activists with their uniform shoulder bags and ignorance of Scottish politics?

      Most Labour branches in Scotland are now “family” affairs with very few activists and those they do have are grouped together for a photo shoot by a compliant media to maintain the illusion.

      If you cannot believe in self determination for your nation it is very unlikely that you will be taken seriously on any issue

      A Labour Party that continues to support illegal wars, WMD, Force Projection ( Astute class submarines / Aircraft carriers etc) are no longer a party of the people. I know the term Red Tories has been used on a regular basis but for good reason, they are part of the support for the elite class who run the UK. A branch official pretending she has the power to change such New Labour politics is simply being dishonest in order to grab a few votes.

    154. Petra says:

      Nana I just want to thank you once again for taking the time to search for / post links on here. They are utterly invaluable: So invaluable that my computer is now bursting at the seams with saved data, lol.

      In relation to the Mhairi Black / pension and John Swinney education links you have to wonder how anyone could have the brass neck to say that the SNP aren’t doing their ‘day job’. They are doing that most effectively indeed and WAY more, beyond the call of duty in fact. Will any of this be reported on the news today? Will English women (rUK) realise that it’s the SNP (no one else) that have been fighting to ensure that they get a ‘timely’ decent pension?

      Then we read about the Theresa May UN address …. security a big issue. This is the woman who has just given Hinkley Point the green light. Hinkley Point / Chinese input a threat to National security, she said. Not now? And we have the woman she’s ‘promoted’ to Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, now known to have been (may still be) a bl**dy tax avoider. The Amber Rudd when as Minister for Energy couldn’t even be bothered to visit Aberdeen in the midst of the oil crisis: avoided attending meetings at Holyrood.

      And then of course we see that nothing’s changed at all with regard to ‘back to work’ tests. Still hounding the sick and disabled; Labour and Tory still fuelling racism in England.

      And they wonder why we want out! Wonder why we want our Independence. The links you’ve posted today just about cover it. One missing of course and that’s their penchant for paedophilia. No doubt hear about something new relating to that issue tomorrow.

      Better Together?

    155. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      Scottish Conservative candidate Colin Clak who is standing for election in Inverurie & District seat says:

      “This by-election is a straight fight between the SNP and the Scottish Conservatives”

      I anticipate this will be the test fight for May 2017.

      Neo Facist “Voice of The North” will no doubt be bigging this guy up from now until November the 3rd.

    156. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe 7.39 Enjoy and sorry for late reply, had a mishap with the kettle. Clumsy clot that I am!

      Here’s another link

      brexit-bulletin-banks-throw-in-towel-on-clearing

      http://archive.is/s4OeC

    157. Petra says:

      @ Effijy saysat 8:37 am …. ”As mentioned above, it seems that NHS England is hiding the true stats on the number of operations cancelled.” …….

      Great post Effijy. We could do with someone like you attending debates, such as the one mentioned by Robert Graham at 2:17 am.

      You’d soon sort them out.

    158. Tinto Chiel says:

      The English Health service is in crisis simply because not enough money is being spent on it. In fact, spending is being cut but the Establishment has been conning the people in the UK that it is the jewel in the crown internationally. More is spent as a % of GDP in other EU countries.

      Pravdasound4 had a slot on IVF treatment this morning. The usual stuff which barely mentioned how far ahead of the game we are in Scotland. The BBC runs with “NHS in Crisis” stories regularly to soften it up for more privatisation.

      Another recent planted story is the Ministry of Defence complaining of “vexatious” claims by Iraqis of ill-treatment by UK troops. Presumably vexatious means “too many”, just like autonomous means “keep a civil tongue in my cheek when you talk to me, Kezia.”

      How long before these “vexatious” claims become “historical”?

      Need to thank Nana for one of her recent links regarding deletion of witness testimony in the current (and doomed) WM paedophile inquiry. I heard no mention of this on any news outlet. How often have files and other evidence disappeared or been “lost”?

      It is shameful and corrupt beyond belief but then when the State Broadcaster has allowed Savile a free hand what chance do we have of the truth coming out?

    159. Robert Peffers says:

      Oh! FGS: I am sore sided laughing at today’s Labour Party news.

      It was bad enough with the party membership, (and leadership0, going politically in the opposite direction to their parliamentary MPs, MEPs and MSPs. Now the Labour Party employed staff members are demanding they should have their own place on the Labour Party’s, “National Executive Committee”, (the Labour Party’s ruling body).

      Considering these are only employees of the Labour Party it must be assumed staff members were given their jobs by Labour Party parliamentarians and not by the paid-up card carrying membership.

      The plot sickens – Err! thickens.

    160. manandboy says:

      gerry parker says:
      22 September, 2016 at 6:36 am
      Man and boy at 12:37

      http://www.scotlandineurope.eu/wee_bleu_book

      Essential reading for anyone trying to debunk the EU myths being spread by the usual
      _____

      Much appreciated, Gerry.
      I’ve just read it and you are so right – it is essential reading. Thank you so much.

    161. Valerie says:

      OT

      I see that Russia and US are to joint chair talks about Syria today, and the UN says they want to get aid lined up again.

      So if everyone is convinced it’s Russia killing everyone, they are quick to jump round the table, rather than produce evidence of the Russian murderers.

      Everyone in New York, ‘inferred’ it was Russia, not the bold Boris, he accused the Russians. What a fecking diplomat we are blessed with.

      If everyone maintains its Russia and Assad, why not withdraw and get proof positive?

      The lies and bullshit are heinous.

      People need to ask themselves about Iraq and Libya, then answer why the outcome in Syria, and what is actually going on is any different.

      The footage coming out of Yemen of children dying of starvation is horrendous, yet you need to dig for information.

      The interview of Amal Clooney saying she would happily take part in a war crimes prosecution against Assad, whilst ignoring the UK govt role in selling arms to the Saudis, was very hypocritical. The UN has already asked the UK to stop these sales, which are being used to perpetrate war crimes.

      I know I’m ranting, but this behaviour is done in our name, as part of this Union. It will get worse. I predict we will increase the Forces as a job creation scheme. Takes care of employment, uses oil, and builds warmongering alliances, to whom we sell arms, as the second largest supplier in the world.

    162. winifred mccartney says:

      FOOL autonomy – is that the same one they had last October – and it has still to be passed at conference next week – good luck with that – and would you believe it JC abstained. It sure is fool autonomy for the party of fools. Lies, damned lies and then labour.

    163. gordoz says:

      Oh dear Lol –

      Ian Murray there on GMS explaing why we still need at least 1 North British Labour MP in Scotland.

      Its the Comedy of course.

    164. call me dave says:

      The National telling us that ‘allies’ of Corbin are opposed to ‘Scottish’ labour autonomy. Kezia got a fight on her hands at the UK conference.

      PS:
      UK government has changed the VAT rules to allow some schools in England to reclaim the VAT payments SNP asked in parliament that the Scottish Police etc should be treated the same.

      A titter ran round the chamber! Aye right!

      No daily wrecker left behind in the cafe for a few days now maybe they’ve stopped buying it… Morning all a day off today.

    165. Breeks says:

      I don’t mind then practice, quite the reverse, but I rarely indulge in trading of good music links on YouTube. Plain truth is, it’s not just the good tune I’d like to post but the lyrics too, I’d recommend you google World Party’s Ship of Fools for yourselves.

      Even the name of the land just drips with irony for Scotland’s coming of age on the world scene, and if ever there was a literal anthem for Brexit, this has got to be it. Funny thing is, I reckon half of England wouldn’t disagree.

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clootie says: 22 September, 2016 at 8:51 am

      ” … I know the term Red Tories has been used on a regular basis but for good reason, they are part of the support for the elite class who run the UK.

      I’ve been using the term, “The Westminster Establishment”, to describe the United Kingdom’s government for many years now, Clootie. I do so advisedly for historically that is exactly what the rulers of the United Kingdom have always actually been.

      Starting with the elite Roman rulers, in Londinium before the birth of Christ, there has been an elite that ruled, by proxy, in the south east of the island of Great Britain.

      That, “Proxy”, manner of rule was how Rome ruled their entire Empire. They, “Romanised”, (set-up former local Briton leaders in Roman Style villas to be the government while the Romans directed the way they governed).

      After the Romans left they have always been replaced by another set of elite leaders – “The Establishment”, has gone on unbroken ever since.

      The real power has always been with these elite leaders. It still consists of the Royals, the aristocracy, (there are still hereditary peers in the Lords)religious leaders, (there are still the Archbishops and bishops in the Lords), the military hierarchy, the leading English educators, (think Eaton, Harrow, Oxford & Cambridge), the so called Secret Service and the current media. Behind all of which is the financial sector.

      From time to time along came a movement of the common people who had realised how they were being conned but in every case to date these, after gaining power, became just another part of the Westminster Establishment.

      There were the Liberals who are now well, “Established”, as part of the Establishment and the Labour Party who also began as the common people’s representatives but who have long ago also joined the elite Westminster Establishment.

      The present Westminster party system has always been a bit like those old USAsian frontier ghost towns. A load of false fronts attempting to show two story fronts for single story log cabin buildings.

      Their modern equivalent is the towering financial sector Skyscraper office buildings of modern times. It is all a false fronted façade to disguise the real powers in the land. There is really no actual difference between the main UK political Parties and, when they come under threat, they close ranks and stand shoulder to shoulder together, along with the rest of the Establishment, against any threat to, “The Establishment”.

    167. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Oh FFS, ‘Dr Tom’ on Kall-K is on about ‘poverty’ as a major cause of premature death.

      That’ll be the last we hear of him then…he should’ve stuck to verrucas, nits and snoring.

    168. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …and Mary Berry has announced she’s chucking the GBBO and is sticking with the BBC out of ‘loyalty’.

      That’ll be the last we hear of her then…

    169. Fred says:

      @ Nana, thanks for that, the man’s a buffoon!

      Anent the expression “Sooth-moother!” I believe dis is a Shetland term for fok who arrive at Lerwick via da sooth mooth o da harbour.

    170. Smallaxe says:

      Petra et al:

      You should look at the rhyme on O/T 9:38pm. 🙂

      YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU!!!

      Peace Love and Parliamentary Politics

    171. Petra says:

      @ Nana says at 9:53 am …. ”For anyone who missed this morning’s comedy show on GMS.”

      https://soundcloud.com/allan-price-929779759/gms-ian-murray-on-scottish-labour-autonomy

      Ha, ha, ha, ha! Oh Nana what a cracker! What a shambles! A shambolic cracker, lol. Autonomy my a*s.

      Thanks for the laugh. Fair cheered me up along with your earlier post. The type of information that will help our cause no end.

      http://archive.is/s4OeC

    172. cearc says:

      English HS. It is not just that there is not enough money being paid into it.

      Money is coming out of it for profits and very high executive salaries in the ever increasing privatised bits.

    173. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      You have me worried,have you injured yourself with the kettle,
      I hope you have not scalded yourself,if so please concentrate
      on treatment NOT links we have plenty to keep us busy.Please
      put our minds at rest,once you are fit to do so!

      Peace Always

    174. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Nana –

      🙂 🙂 🙂

      Murray: ‘Kezia Dugdale’s been incredibly clear…’

      Aye, Ian, that’s right enough – she’s so ‘clear’, abody can see right through her to the ‘coup’ that’s standing on yonder hill.

      What a dick.

    175. Chic McGregor says:

      Well said Breeks. I have used the parasitic analogy often myself.

      However I often wonder whether imperialist Nationalism, with its concepts of exceptionalism, expansionism and correction isn’t more analogous to a kind of socio-political cancer.

      Where the outcome, without intervention, is always negative and fatal and where it is basically some cells attacking/converting others.

      Many parasitic relationships have an element of symbiosis but the parasite analogy still holds if it is a case of the parasite growing to the extent it kills the host.

    176. DerekM says:

      Agreed yesindyref though that is easier said than done but if you asked me for the name of the one political party in these islands that just might manage,it would be the SNP,this left right thing inside the SNP isnt new its just about as old as me but managed a whole lot better today than it was back in the past.

      Back then the SNP were sitting ducks for Labour activists as the right and left argued over dominance of the party,they were more a fringe protest party still kicking lumps out the system from the outside and getting nowhere so kicked lumps out each other.

      Funny thing is now they have evolved into a political party of substance my old party has devolved into a bunch of halfwits morons fighting for dominance between the right and the left.

      Its a funny old world 🙂

    177. Nana says:

      @Petra

      Dear oh dear it’s hard not to lol at slab, one of my friend’s elderly folk calls the unionist parties hapless & gormless haha

      @Smallaxe

      I’m fine Billy, the kettle came off worse, dented when dropped and dented again when kicked! Luckily had a back up one or my mood would be black.

    178. Nana says:

      @Fred not heard that term sooth moother before. Could it apply to this chap

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/director-nations-regions

    179. Ian Sanderson says:

      Nana: I first heard that on Shetland It’s a very common term there and on Orkney…

    180. Desimond says:

      Im still trying to work out if Kez actually said anything real on last night Scotland Tonight.

      I heard lots of references to “Loads of this autonomy thing across Europe” ( she does love a sigh laden “As I’ve already said” without realising she clearly isnt being clear anytime she says whatever she is saying) but even poor Rona had to eventually give up when Kez had to resort to turning it into SNP bad by the end.

      So how many Political parties with autonomous country branches span more than 1 country in Europe…take your time Kez…we are all ears.

    181. Ian Sanderson says:

      Nana: It’s a very common expression on Orkney & Shetland…

    182. Proud Cybernat says:

      Unionist parties obsessed with Unionism.

      Who knew?

      http://imgur.com/7OKySfV

    183. mike cassidy says:

      Petra 10.20

      I had to stop listening after 4 minutes

      I’ll serve if elected – but not if appointed

      Its about uniting the party – but it won’t split.

      Its about autonomy, but its devolution.

      What’s the point of satire?

    184. Dr Jim says:

      Yoons in England are annoyed at being referred to as “English” seemingly they’re insulted by that and prefer British
      What are we to call people now, the not Scottish Irish or Welsh folk

      I can’t keep up

    185. heedtracker says:

      Yoons in England are annoyed at being referred to as “English” seemingly they’re insulted by that and prefer British
      What are we to call people now, the not Scottish Irish or Welsh folk

      TeamGBists.

      Other news from the Scotland region, rancid The Graun style, as Labour march themselves over a cliff, which isn’t news, Graun style.

      http://archive.is/gQyw5

    186. Valerie says:

      Nana 11.24

      That is essential reading for everyone. I just recently started following Steve Topple, after seeing some of his stuff on Twitter.

      A huge amount of work there. I would love to see that all set out on one of those string diagrams.

    187. Effijy says:

      O/T Thanks Petra!

      I was fortunate enough to stay at Scotland’s Gleneagles Hotel earlier this week.

      This is a wonderful jewel in the crown for Scottish tourism.
      Every detail taken care of, wonderful staff, and world class facilities. (Approximately 850 employees)

      I particularly enjoyed speaking with young employees who travelled from France, Portugal, Austria, Germany, Ireland, you know those countries that Westminster don’t want to work with, and places as far away as Australia and India.

      The Glasgow Herald provide a free copy of their SNP Bad daily pamphlet for every room and a bundle for all common leisure areas. This must account for around 500 copies of the rag that have to be given away.

      There was a very large party of Canadians and some Americans putting them in their bin and buying papers from
      their own country. Such a waste of trees and petrol!

      The Herald cannot meet its own running costs, and must be subsidised by the owners, just to feed out their propaganda

    188. heedtracker says:

      I’ll certainly give this a go. It would be amazing to hear Scots accents that were not the BBC Scotland version of Scots voices and especially without the job for life Pacific Quay panjandrums.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37428346

    189. heedtracker says:

      panjandrum
      pan?d?andr?m/Submit
      noun
      plural noun: panjandrums

      A person who has or claims to have a great deal of authority or influence.

      “the greatest scientific panjandrum of the 19th century”
      and “the current BBC Scotland freak out, misinforming, lying and terrorising, and all round shit stirring panjandrums of the 21st century”

    190. Petra says:

      @ mike cassidy says at 11:28am …. ”Petra, I had to stop listening after 4 minutes.

      I’ll serve if elected – but not if appointed

      Its about uniting the party – but it won’t split.

      Its about autonomy, but its devolution.

      What’s the point of satire?”

      Yeah I had to think twice before posting ‘ha, ha’ to Nana, Mike, as I was wondering if I should actually be feeling sorry for him. Wondering if he’s suffering from schizophrenia or bi-polar condition? And then I thought naw he’s just a wee fly man who’s been well and truly confronted for once.

      …………………………………..

      @ Dr Jim says at 11:32 am …. ”Yoons in England are annoyed at being referred to as “English” seemingly they’re insulted by that and prefer British.”

      Probably because they know ‘English’ is kind of a dirty word now, the World over. Football fans, racism etc (not all of course). Trying to mingle with (hide behind) the Scots, Welsh and Irish now. Changed days, eh!

    191. Effijy says:

      I recall at the Indy Ref 1 debacle Johann Lamont claiming that SLAB had Autonomy, only for her later to announce this was a fallacy, just as she was ousted as SLAB Leader.
      (Ousted/Stabbed in the Back-Same thing!)

      We then had Dim Jim as SLAB leader, and low and behold, everything had changed, and now he really had autonomy?

      Yes right up until he went on the BBC to announce new changes that he wanted to make in Scotland, and his superiors in Westminster Labour then said “Oh no he won’t”!

      When Kez was made leader to entertain us, she too claimed that SLAB now, this time, had autonomy.
      Another proven lie!

      So now that she again says it Really, Really, Guides Honour, this time, 4th time lucky, is a case where they have autonomy, who on earth is stupid enough to believe it?

      Just as well though, as a dying party without members, funds, talent, or practical policies, they would create problems for everyone, if they had any form of real power.

      Scottish Labour Autonomy Bullsh***! SLAB

    192. Robert Graham says:

      Sorry to harp on about the Tory attack on the NHS , bloody cheek and brass neck comes to mind with that lot , i watched Ivan Mckee last night , now Ivan is a great guy and very knowledgeable on finance , but as became evident during his hustings sessions debating and arguing is maybe not his strong point , he was barely holding his ground against a smug tory , we have one of the most effective debaters in Jeane Freeman a total waste not using her experience and as we dont get much media attention it has to be effective .

    193. Smallaxe says:

      Valerie et al:

      No need to dig.
      http://www.msf.org.uk/

      Dear Smallaxe

      Thank you for your donation to Médecins Sans Frontières UK.

      The reference for this donation is W0160163

      Thank you

      Your donation is what makes our work possible. Donations such as yours allows us to remain independent from political, religious and economic interests, and ensures we can act fast and save lives based on needs alone.

      See donations at work

      Our website is a great place to see how much of an impact donations such as yours have. There, you’ll find the latest news, photo stories, videos and blogs from our staff and patients.

      Join our social communities

      Our social communities are lively places and are full of topical debate. They are the best places to get our news as it happens. Please join us on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest and Twitter.

      SMALLAXE says,please be aware,I know everyone can’t donate but
      Please take notice of what is being done in our Name

      Patient story
      A man who brought his sister to an MSF field hospital

      “We heard the sound of explosions… I told my sister to move and find shelter, as it was close. She was behind me, about five metres. A bomb landed near her. She was covered in rubble. I shouted: “Are you hurt, sister?” She replied: “Yes, I am!” I ran towards her and saw that shrapnel had hit her face. Blood was coming out of her neck … We shouted for a car. Thankfully there was one nearby. We took her to the hospital, where they stopped the bleeding. Her situation is stable now.
      If there were no hospital, she’d have died. We need medical care. In my sister’s case, she needs doctors, care, drugs. As you know, we have nothing here. We need support in medication, doctors, ambulances capable of transporting patients immediately, everything.”
      THIS IS SYRIA NOW WINGERS.IF EVER PEACE AND LOVE WERE NEEDED
      IT IS HERE.

      I have only put in one patients story,there are hundreds and
      hundreds more

    194. call me dave says:

      Tuned into FMQs on shortbread radio in car on the way home and found it very annoying to have a BBC voice often talk over parts of the FM’s answers FGS!

      Butt out BBC we are grown up enough to listen to a Q & A session thanks.

      Anyhoo! Seemed to be a relatively quiet day for the FM doing her day job today.

      Oh wait! That voice ( Lucy Adams) is summing up the session with cold coffee & extra shortbread thrown in so we all understand what to think!

      Kezia’s lament at FMQs about ‘Scots not getting it’ is the quote of the day apparently.

      However I think most Scots are getting it Kezia… that’s why your party is third at the moment.

      PS:
      Those A&E statistics from the NHS darn Sarf appear to be made up in on a different basis than we all thought in Scotland.

      Only the cancelled operations made on the day of the op are actually counted and not all hospitals need supply figures at all. The figures are said to be much worse than the public have been told

      Shurley Ruthie ; Jackie & Kezia will be a bit less shouty at Holyrood regarding such matters.

      Funny old health service world init! 🙁

    195. Liz g says:

      Smallaxe
      Sorry we missed each other last night.
      Would have enjoyed chatting to you.
      I’m sure there will be other nights when we are both up well past the witching hour.
      Anyhoo best wishes for your continued recovery and please let Mrs Smallaxe know that I am asking for her. X

    196. Smallaxe says:

      Liz g:

      Thanks Liz I will look out for you in the wee hours in future.

      🙂

      Peace Always

    197. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @call me dave –

      Aye, that’s a personal bugbear here – talking over whoever’s speaking to explain what they’re saying is utterly pointless and makes both speakers unintelligible.

      BBC providing yet another example of how it just isn’t fit for purpose.

    198. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY’S FIRST MINISTER’S QUESTIONS.
      Scottish Parliament TV.
      Now Archived,and ready to view at:

      http://tinyurl.com/z439kja

    199. Petra says:

      @ Liz g says at 1:04 pm …. ”Smallaxe, Sorry we missed each other last night. Would have enjoyed chatting to you. I’m sure there will be other nights when we are both up well past the witching hour. Anyhoo best wishes for your continued recovery and please let Mrs Smallaxe know that I am asking for her. X”

      I’m another who never goes to bed before 2:00am. Usually off to bed around 3:00am or later as I only sleep 4 hours a night. I use that time to catch up on paperwork however if I’ve got time …. not posting on here, lol …. I’ll join you.

    200. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      RE the 2 white elephants at Rosyth – I along with most sensible people at the time criticised the decision not to equip the carriers with Cat & Trap.

      Given the well reported problems The US is having with the F35Bs which are the ONLY fixed wing aircraft in the world (except for Russian VTOLs) which have the capability to operate from our 2 SKI Jump equipped money pits – what would happen if the Yanks threw in the towel and said enough is enough with the VTOL F35Bs?

      A fat lot of good our 2 vessels would be other than as very expensive Helicopter Carriers.

      However, if we had gone for Cat & Trap we would have had the options of F18s, Navalised Rafales or even the development of a navalised Typhoon – after all The Typhoon is little different technically from the Rafale.

      It wouldn’t be the first time for the Yanks – 50 odd years ago we were going to buy ALBMs (I can’t remember the name right now) when out of the blue the project was cancelled. As compensation for the cancellation we were offered Polaris.

      Unfortunately the Yanks only option if the F35Bs were cancelled would be to offer to sell us back what is left of our fleet of Harriers which the Tories flogged off to them at knock down prices.

    201. Smallaxe says:

      Nana Liz Petra morag:

      I asked you ladies here for a reason, I do not want to spoil
      the latest thread, I did make an appeal on it but everyone is
      busy with the oil.please look at my post at 12:49 this thread.
      Thank you
      Then look back here I will post something else
      Peace Always ALLWAYS

    202. Smallaxe says:

      If any of you came to look,please now look @ O/T 9:38 pm I
      wrote this a few years ago,but I was perfectly serious about it. I do think women are needed urgently, I think you women
      have a better chance to put the message across to others. In
      my opinion Scotland IS important,but I know that we have to look at the bigger picture.Please answer on this thread if you
      Agree.Thank you all in advance.

      Peace Love and Ladies who Care.

    203. geeo says:

      Right, got ma tin hat on here for this one…

      Every one of the commentors owe an apology to the labour party, kez dugdale, STV BBC and all other groups clearly offended by the scurrilous allegation that the labour party have been granted permission to be 100% Monotonous….

      Oops….sorry….my bad…hold on….ehhm…

      Whit wiz the question again !!!

    204. Smallaxe says:

      Geeo:

      I’ve been trying to get hold of you are you still on?

    205. Smallaxe says:

      Jack:

      If you seen my request,let me know, I will check back every 2/3mins



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