The Silence Of The Sacrificial Lambs
Should disabled children be used as props to make men with sexual fetishes feel better? It doesn’t seem like a difficult question, does it?
The above quote is part of the heartfelt plea of a mother of a disabled daughter. We know that women and girls are vulnerable to male sexual violence, we know that men commit 98% of sex offences and we know that disabled children are three to four times more likely to experience abuse.
We just don’t seem to care.
The United Nations Population Fund has highlighted how “in a study by the African Child Policy Forum of violence against children with disabilities, nearly every young person interviewed had been sexually abused at least once – and most more than once”.
Once they reach adulthood, the statistics according to research by DAME Magazine are terrifying:
The magazine’s Victoria Brownworth argued that (in the US) “77% of rapes and sexual assaults were not reported to police. The enormity of that number suggests that within the context of disability, where so many victims may not even have access to language, or where the person they would report to is the same person perpetuating the assaults (and on whom they depend for their most basic care), the number may be perilously close to 100 percent.”
Alongside the significant risk of sexual violence, we know that girls and women experience an indignity and a trauma when they are forced to allow a male to undress them and touch their vulva, breasts or anus when they do not consent and do not want this touch. Sex is important.
Having become disabled as a teenager myself, it can feel like society has sentenced you to suffer at the hands of men. The figures and the possibilities of your future are stark. People look away at the obvious risks, they deny that you too need dignity, they claim “not all men”.
And while it isn’t all men, it’s also not just seven bad ones – they wouldn’t have the time to abuse all of these children and women.
Although it’s difficult to obtain data on disabled children as previously it hasn’t been seen as important enough to collect, the data which is emerging is showing a similar pattern across nations. Very vulnerable children and adults, particularly those who struggle to communicate, are seen as targets by predators. These predatory males will use careers where they can have access to these vulnerable children in order to abuse.
For example, evidence was given to the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry that a potential sex offender was being employed and moved around children’s homes, including a home for disabled children.
Frequently men will move into positions where they can have access to their targets. In May 2021 Dorrion Etienne was imprisoned for targeting and sexually abusing two learning-disabled girls at their school.
In November 2021 Robin James Elms was convicted and sentenced after he “targeted a child with special needs during a campaign of abuse in private homes where he worked as a freelance nanny and babysitter. He picked on children he thought were too young to speak up or who had learning difficulties and autism, grooming entire families in order to commit his abuse”.
Also in November 2021 it was reported that George Holden, “a former Derbyshire teacher and professional clown expects to die behind bars after being jailed for abusing young children. The court heard his previous convictions included sexually abusing blind and disabled children while working as a teacher at a special school”.
In December 2021 Brian Rudgley, an 83-year-old retired head teacher with years of experience working with children with special educational needs was imprisoned for sexually abusing a learning-disabled girl.
We have seen this pattern in institutions like sports clubs, charities and the Church to name just a few. Predators will move to where they can get to their prey. Yet still, politicians are behaving like such behaviour is beyond the realms of possibility. I am sick of them playing dumb and putting the wellbeing of the disabled at risk.
Indeed, it is once again being proposed by politicians that male feelings and male egos need to be prioritised and protected by law above the needs of the vulnerable, and those who too frequently experience sexual abuse at the hands of males. We are not even allowed to name the pattern – male sexual violence – in case it offends men.
Language had been changed to obscure reality. Parent P, who wished to remain anonymous, pointed out that “lots of people won’t think twice about a form only asking about gender, not sex too and also think these terms are interchangeable. The erosion and hijacking of our rights is so insidious”.
When it’s a form deciding what adult will be touching your child’s genitals, the difference between sex and gender identity is put in much sharper relief. Same-sex care is the most basic of safeguards and provides dignity, we should be able to choose it for ourselves and our relatives.
However, it commonly appears that NHS policies have been written according to Stonewall’s version of the law rather than the Equality Act 2010. NHS Lanarkshire’s “Supporting Trans Staff in the Workplace” dictates that employees:
Translated, a cross-dressing man who gets aroused in women’s clothes is to be treated as a woman, and this includes allowing him access to disabled girls’ naked bodies.
The Equality Act 2010 makes it acceptable to discriminate on the basis of sex if there is a legitimate aim – this is known as a General Occupational Qualification (GOQ). If women and girls are to be naked it was widely accepted, before Stonewall poisoned the well, that a GOQ would automatically apply.
NHS Lanarkshire has pre-empted challenge on this point and commanded staff that male feelings come above the law in this regard. It declares that:
“the Equality Act 2010 provides limited exemptions for GOQ positions to restrict access to members of a particular gender [wrong, read “sex”]. These exemptions can only be applied in order to achieve a legitimate operational need.
This secret-keeping about (mostly) males’ true sex, identity, and past means the scenario could arise that parents place their severely disabled non-verbal teenage daughter in a short respite care, thinking she will receive intimate care and be attended to at night by a woman, when in reality a man who gets aroused by cross-dressing has put on women’s clothes and is repeatedly washing the girl’s vulva.
Is that sexual abuse? The young girl will feel violated, will feel abused, will be traumatised. The parents will feel lied to, and wonder if they can ever trust the care of their daughter to Lanarkshire NHS again.
Allan Petrie, the chairperson of Glenlaw Parent/Carer Support Group, has written to Shona Robison, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government to raise parental concerns around the care of their disabled children, noting that “trans” is now an umbrella term encompassing all manner of groups including drag queens, crossdressers and “midlings”, whatever those might be.
(Googling produces nothing useful.)
It’s also argued within the LGB/T/Q/+ community that a range of extreme (and even illegal) sexual practices grouped under the term “kink” belong under the trans/LGBTQ+ “umbrella”.
The Q in LGBTQ+ (the official preferred term of people like the Scottish Greens) already stands for Queer, a term which organisations like Stonewall are very shy about defining in any meaningful way but appears to implicitly embrace “kink”, as being outwith “perceived norms” and “specific labels”.
Or put another way, it means whatever you want it to mean. Christina Richards – a transwoman who is Lead Psychologist and Head of Psychology at the UK’s foremost “gender identity clinic”, the Tavistock in London – has called for many extreme and violent sexual practices to be normalised and no longer classified as paraphilias – conditions “characterized by abnormal sexual desires, typically involving extreme or dangerous activities”.
(One such practice is “ageplay”, which Richards describes as “an adult identifying as a baby or young child, and is also known as adult baby/diaper lover (ABDL) or infantilism. There may be a sexual aspect… associated with humiliation”, while denying it has any link to paedophilia.)
Mr Petrie explained that to the minister:
Research by NSPCC Learning together with Coventry University and the Ann Craft Trust presented the universalism of these parental anxieties around the care of their disabled children. One parent respondent described how
The research highlighted how “parents whose children had complex needs raised particular concerns regarding how incredibly difficult it was to teach their children about issues such as safe touch in their intimate care, puberty and changes in their bodies and about sexual abuse. Their greatest fears were that their child would not be able to communicate if they felt unsafe. One parent explained that her son used Makaton to communicate, yet there were no staff in his school that could use Makaton. As a result the child had no means of communicating with anyone”.
The sexual abuse of disabled children and young adults is so widespread that the NSPCC alongside the charity Triangle has developed a communication system for children to express abuse. Triangle highlighted that before their intervention, children who used symbol vocabulary to communicate could “communicate about the national curriculum but cannot say ‘leave me alone’.”
Due to the fact that disabled children did not have access to specific symbols which could communicate sexual abuse, safeguarding experts and investigators would sometimes have to hand draw images and thus accusations of coaching the child could be made. This added to non-verbal children being perceived as weak witnesses and subsequently cases not being prosecuted.
Consequently it increased the targeting of such children by perpetrators. Triangle has enabled disabled children and young people to get legal redress for crimes committed against them, by enabling disabled children to tell someone what’s being done to them. As part of developing the images, Triangle
Yes, in our society we’ve had to develop a way for severely disabled children who may have mental ages of 6 to 8 to say “willy”, “hard” and “squirt”.
Once communication has been enabled the struggle to participate in the justice system doesn’t stop there. As well as access to communication, physical access to the courts is still a barrier as just 2% of UK courts are currently accessible to disabled people. This, frankly, is a denial of fundamental rights and what exclusion really looks like.
Alongside the obvious safeguarding issues and the need to maintain dignity for the disabled is the fact that a male carer would retraumatise disabled girls who have already been sexually abused by men. Ann West commented that “our disabled daughter was seriously sexually assaulted. We were assured she would always have women support staff especially as she needs assistance with all her personal care. Well I’m not remotely reassured, in fact I’m terrified for her future. This is so wrong on every level’.”
It is generally understood that women and girls who have been sexually assaulted and or raped by men find the presence of and touch of men re-traumatising, and this is no different if the women or girl has a disability. In fact it may be exaggerated because that man might be touching your vulva, breasts and other parts of your body. The statistics on abuse are stark – UNICEF estimates that children with disabilities are three to four times more likely to experience physical and sexual violence.
Why would a man want to do this? If he doesn’t care about the potential serious impact he will have on the disabled girl or woman, should he be in a caring position at all? Since when has it been acceptable to use disabled children as props to arouse men?
To most people it is astonishing that questioning a man touching your non-verbal disabled female child’s genitals could be a criminal offence, yet in Scotland it is about to become a hate crime.Why are politicians willing to re-traumatise potential abuse victims to fulfil men’s fantasies?
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Dr EM is a disabled, feminist writer and historian. She writes under a pen name due to threats to her safety and tweets as @PankhurstEM.
Robert Hughes says:
16 February, 2022 at 6:03 pm
Ruby Baby ( title of an old song , not a personal title of endearment : though yr welcome to take it as such ? )
I don’t read newspapers or watch TV News/Current Affairs
Sounds like a good idea ‘Dr Robert'(title of old Beatles song)
I never watch TV & only listen to BBC2 radio in the car ie snatches of Jeremy Vine & Ken Bruce’s Pop Master just because these are on at the times I’m driving.
Do you listen to radio?
I haven’t read or listen to a single thing about Ukraine I was really surprised to see the interest in the topic here on Wings. I’m wondered if it was because everyone was watching TV and being manipulated/enticed into being interested or if it had anything to do with gender.
I just read the subjects I’m interested in. Currently I’m interested in the Prince Andrew settlement. I have no idea where I could get info about that if I didn’t read newspapers. I’m very aware that headlines don’t tell the story ‘cos I had lessons from Stu & stuff. The £12m headline might be true but as yet I haven’t found any proof that it is.
The question is do I need to know about the ‘Prince Andrew settlement’ or anything else that is going on outside my circle of friends & family?
I quite fancy the idea of becoming one of these really annoying ‘don’t knows’ it could be quite relaxing.
I could sign up for all these polls and just tick ‘don’t know’ and still get the money.
Who is paying the cost of the lawyers, BOTH SETS ?
At a guess it will be double £10 million or MORE !
Poor Auld Fergie only got a £3 million kiss off, ski chalet now offski !
Full disclosure I do watch the Alex Salmond Show?
Does that count as TV?
James Barr Gardner says:
16 February, 2022 at 7:22 pm
Who is paying the cost of the lawyers, BOTH SETS ?</B.
The same people/person who is paying all the rest.
link to archive.is
'Stephens told BBC Breakfast: “The money is being used in three ways. The first part is to pay compensation to Virginia Giuffre. The second is to pay off her lawyers’ expenses and such like.'
” The question is do I need to know about the ‘Prince Andrew settlement’ or anything else that is going on outside my circle of friends & family? ”
Naw , you/me/anyone ( that’s not a * pronoun * thing btw ) don’t.
” I quite fancy the idea of becoming one of these really annoying ‘don’t knows’ it could be quite relaxing.”
Lol ! A lot to be said for no knowing . WTF do any us of really know anyway ?
It’s snowing on the loch right now . I know that , I can see it . It’s braw
Hungary and Poland fail in EU court to challenge the right to EU funding without following EU laws, Poland is the largest recipient of EU funding in the EU.
“Reacting to the ruling, Hungarian Justice Minister Judit Varga accused the court of making “a political decision” because of Hungary’s upcoming “child protection referendum“, widely believed to target the LGBTIQ community.”
Orban might not get it right all the time, but I agree with the above ref to protect children.
link to euractiv.com
It’s snowing on the loch right now . I know that , I can see it . It’s braw
Aw naw snaw! Snaw isna braw!
I dinnae want tae naw aboot snaw!
I hope you weren’t referring to St Margaret’s Loch!
I know there was a mad storm blowing outside the centre it lasted about a minute and nearly blew me over.
Naw , this snaw’s braw : no sae braw fur yr auld maw , n’aw , but disnae matter it’s only flaky watter , efter aw
It’s very quiet her on Wings!
What’s happened is everyone ‘snawed under’?
I’ve been reading the papers again this morning.
link to 12ft.io
“The convicted sex offender Paul Robson absconded from a Lincolnshire prison, sparking a nationwide manhunt on Sunday, February 13.
Robson was serving a life sentence for attempted rape and indecent assault.
He was jailed at Oxford Crown Court in 2000 after he entered a woman’s home through a cat flap before tying her up, putting a pillowcase over her head, and brutally assaulting her while holding a knife to her throat.”
My question is how did he escape from prison. What kind of prison cell would you need to house a man who can enter a house through a catflap?
According to the article his pronouns are he/him but I’m just wondering if it’s because the MSM haven’t gotten around to using the Japanese for Meow.
If you don’t read the papers you wont know that
“Sarah Smith ‘relieved’ to leave ‘bile’ of Scottish politics for BBC America job”
I haven’t read that article ‘cos frankly my dear ……..
@Andy Ellis – 15 February, 2022 at 6:58 pm
“You’re obviously too dense to appreciate the difference Scot, but Denmark is ALREADY an independent country”
Naw, Andy, I’ve just checked, and Denmark is in the EU.
Not signed up for the Euro though.
It’s instructive to get right back to axioms because it allows identification of why arguments can never be resolved. An independent, sovereign nation needs no explanation. It can democratically vote to end its independence by pooling its sovereignty with other countries, so that policies are decided by majority voting or whatever, and everybody knows that ever closer union is the objective.
After all, what’s freedom and independence compared with the promise of hard cash in your pocket?
That’s fine, but no country can exist in a federal union and defy reality be claiming to be INDEPENDENT.
C’mon guys you need to give the ‘silent majority’ something to read.
Hi out there! Hope you are all doing well. Here’s a wee bit of poetry for you to read. Enjoy. 🙂 I’ve added a smiley just incase!
“Aw naw snaw isnae braw fur yer auld maw
Aw naw
Aw naw snaw isnae braw fur yer auld paw wi the one baw
Aw naw
Aw naw snaw husnae been braw fur yer auld paw wi the one baw
Since he fell in the snaw and got bit in the baw by the three craws that sat upon a wa
yer auld paw wi the one baw wis greetin for his maw, greetin for his maw
On that cauld and snawy mornin.
Aw naw snaw isnae braw, isnae braw, isnae braw
Aw naw, Aw naw, Aw naw.”
Hey John Main you should pay more attention to Ellis’s posts
He’s told us at least four times that he’s going to be on holiday in Ireland this week or maybe inshallah it’s this month.
Not quite sure why someone who claims to be intelligent would advertise on the internet that he will be away on holiday.
I wonder if he’s got a catflap.
One of these thousands of ‘silent majority readers’ might be a cat burglar who knows where Ellis lives.
Meow!
Just by adopting the name and persona of Trans, or trans into women or any other pronoun they chose,
Is an admittance by themselves they do not actually see themselves as quite like women.
But possibly somewhere in between.
The vast majority of the adult trans in Britain are not fighting the government first and foremost for an operation to become free on the NHS,
Which you would think would be their first priority if they feel so strongly they are women in a mans body.
If as they claim, they are women but still with men’s bodily structures .
Surely they should be fighting governments, for their own toilets. Separate Prison spaces Changing rooms. And own safe spaces. Etc until the physical psychological assistance and conversion op has been completed.
Why adopt children’s and women’s save spaces other than to suggest themselves as possible abusers of this fragile section in society.
And Not to impose themselves on women and children’s safe spaces, even if only for the purpose of not being tarred with the same brush as paedophilic men,
You would surmise the trans section would do the very opposite and be very careful to avoid imposing on children and women’s safe spaces.
Any man shouting, and lobbying to enter these already occupied safe spaces of women and children and enters voluntary enters into these these women’s and children safe spaces has to be held as behavioural suspicious by the councils, police and local governments.
I could not envisage a councillor, policeman or local government person thinking other wise unless they themselves wish to be grouped or charged with offences against children and women in the future,
As a good per portion of citizens do not agree to this possible danger directed at their families safety.
Councillors, police and local government officials might become known as instigators and operatives for sexual abusers.
Oo is Andy in Ireland
If you don’t read the papers or watch TV you’ll have missed this:
link to 12ft.io
I’m off to see if it’s possible to watch Peston on catch-up.
Could be very entertaining.
I do not buy MSM,
But check out all the headlines around the world.
Then I scour lawyers and legal blogs for separating truth from fiction.
For a legal entity is not about to get themselves in trouble or be fined.
They like their positions and finances to well.
The other sources are governmental, ie) legislation and statues.
I then watch other sources as an alternative to mainstream,
But check them out in with same method
James Che. says:
17 February, 2022 at 12:58 pm
I do not buy MSM,
Indirectly you pay for the Scottish MSM.
SG give them megabucks of taxpayers money.
Yes Ellis is in Ireland he’s posted that info at least four times.
I’m guessing like most folk you don’t pay too much attention to Ellis’ posts.
Personally I think it’s a bit mad to advertise on the internet that you are going to be on holiday. It’s worse than not cancelled your milk and newspapers especially because Alba’s website was hacked.
link to archive.is
Hautey in Ireland with Ellis?
I watch Brian Cox on Peston
link to player.stv.tv
FF 40.30
The STV thingy was a bit fiddly and I don’t think I saw the whole interview with Brian Cox.
It seemed more straight forward for viewers outside Scotland
link to itv.com
WARNING COULD INCLUDE BAD LANGUAGE.
I have admittedly been busy here on this site recently trying to encourage many to follow legal sources if they want Scotland’s independence.
Follow what is legally wrote down,
To check alterations over time to legal wording.
Check if these changes have altered the original legal position.
To check Scots law and laws else where that impose upon Scots law.
To check domestic legislation.
To check domestic statues overriding international laws.
And be aware that suggestion are being made for a newer version of the treaty of the union.
This cannot be achieved With out breaking the treaty, it would make void or annul the original treaty .legally and conceptually.
Releasing Scotland immediately.
As Lord Cooper said,
Sovereignty of parliament is an English conception, and has no parallel in Scotland.
I want to remind all those here to take up the challenges of legal positions between the old treaty of the union and where the present treaty of the union is,
And encourage others to take this up,
Plan ( A )has a good chance of failing.
All that want Scottish independence must research a plan (B).
I will have to be absent on here for a good while as we have housing issues to sort out, and possibly moving areas.
I hope that Rev keeps this site open for all those in Scotland with no voice in MSM,
But also in case there is a sudden change in Scottish politics
The Thieves Kitchen (Nato), its puppet head Jens Stoltenberg gave a Nato press statement today on Ukraine and Russia, at one point in the propaganda speech Stoltenberg said that we cannot return to a time where big nation powers bully or attack smaller nations, Stoltenberg said this without the slightest hint of hypocrisy.
The like so Fox news was also allowed to ask leading questions.
A excellent article by Lesley Riddoch, on why freeports undermine Scotland and our parliament.
link to 12ft.io
Brit living in Ukraine says that Ukrainians are more concerned with the Eurovision Song Contest than a Russian invasion. Daniel Williams form the Isle of Wight (45) added that Ukrainian are more excited about champions League Football than what Russia is doing.
Of course we all know its the new Thieves Kitchen (Nato) that are pushing the warmongering propaganda.
I’d love to know why you think that’s an excellent article, RoS. As I see it, everything she says is based on the assumption and that SNP MPs will find it difficult to stomach needing to cooperate with the British Government;
“ It would stick in anyone’s throat. But 45 SNP MPs are having to grin and bear it because of the sums involved.
“Some £20 million for 32 councils (with more for extra city-wide projects) is over £700 million that’s up for competitive bids – dwarfing the £53 million coming from Westminster to finance those two vexed freeports.
“It’s embarrassing. It’s humiliating.”
Lesley Riddoch has been an SNP/Sturgeon apologist for many years now. The idea that SNP MPs like Pete Wishart (and they’re all much the same, he’s a very typical example) might find it difficult to interface with Britannia in any way is not only ridiculous in terms of giving them the benefit of the doubt, it is verifiably total bullshit.
It would take you (RoS), Lesley Riddoch, me, and anyone with net connection, seconds to torpedo that argument. Wasn’t it you that recently posted pictures of an SNP delegation in Ukraine sitting at a table smiling as representatives of the UK?
I guess she’s got to write something in her little column and anything that takes her mind off Nordic fucking Horizons ought to be applauded.
That Lesley Riddoch article is in a newspaper!
I would love to know how you can you possibly comment on that article if you don’t read newspapers?
There are posters on this forum who are completely bonkers!
Hatuey 2.24
That was my exact thoughts when I read that L Riddoch article ( i read it in the link provided by RoS , in case yr wondering Ruby 🙂
As you say , she’s been an uncritical apologist for the Sturgeon Idiocracy since it’s inception and been dismissed as a credible voice for that reason , so , too little , too late that she’s now emitting a tiny voice of criticism .
In case anyone was still in doubt as to NSNP’s total embrace of permanent Devolution , babbling buffoon and 24/7 embarrassment Wishart actually used the phrase ” broad shoulders of the Union ” in a * debate * the other night ( another linked source Rubes ) . Not ironically or sarcastically either . The link is on Stu’s Over Scotland Facebook page
Robert Hughes says:
17 February, 2022 at 3:06 pm
Hatuey 2.24
That was my exact thoughts when I read that L Riddoch article ( i read it in the link provided by RoS , in case yr wondering Ruby 🙂
You are a hoot Dr Robert!
Link or no link you have read a newspaper and so has ‘Mr Bonkers’ who claims he hasn’t read a newspaper in six years!
Wishart actually used the phrase ” broad shoulders of the Union ” in a * debate * the other night ( another linked source Lovely Ruby )
So you do also watch TV! Linked or not linked that program was on BBC TV
Well Dr Robert care to retract your earlier statement about not reading newspapers or watching TV?
Foreign secretary Lizz Truss is in Kiev, and not content with supplying the Ukrainians with arms, Truss has pledged to up UK taxpayers cash sent to Ukraine to a whopping £100 million quid.
Its taxpayers cash that could be spent in the UK especially with the cost of everything going up, and families having to choose between heating and eating.
Hatuey.
Its excellent in the manner that Riddoch points out that freeports, don’t really benefits Scotland, and although Finance secretary Katie Forbes points out that they are greenports, there’s nothing green about them.
Freeports push down wages, they encourage fraud, smuggling, and tax evasion and global corporations are really the only ones that will benefit from them.
The SNP government should be standing up against them, but because they are too craven to face down Westminster over where our own cash is spent, and fear the Tory government announcing that the SNP government refused levelling up cash, that wouldmn.t go down well with the electorate, they chose to jump on the freeports bandwagon.
Alba Membership Update Feb 2022
‘We have come a long way in 11 months with over 6000 members’
Corri Wilson, Membership Convener’
See all these articles about how shit the UK Gov is and how shit the SG Gov is make me want to scream!
Yes we bloody well know the UK & SG are shit!
I didn’t read the L.Riddoch article cos well L. Riddoch and it seemed like something I have read 100s of times already.
It’s great Dr Robert & Mr Bonkers are so willing to read these articles so I don’t have to.
Shame that they have to wait until someone provides a link for them before reading.
Perhaps they don’t know how to provide links.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F19931822.bbc-savanta-comres-poll-finds-scots-support-gender-reform—results-depth%2F
Here’s a link for those who don’t read newspapers. 🙂
Check the poll now they have ‘don’t knows’ and ‘no opinion’
as two separate groups!
How irritating are these guys!
It would seem when I decide to become one of these irritating ******* I will be able to choose between ‘don’t know’ and ‘no opinion’.
‘A large majority of Scots (67%) said they were not following the GRA issue closely, compared to 31% who said they were.’
I have to go now but I’ll be back to read what others are saying about this poll. Please read I have provided a link.
Can you check if the opinions are divided up by gender? Hopefully they’ve ditched that nonsense. How the **** can someone who has only been a ‘woman’ for a month give an opinion from a ‘womans’ perspective?
” Well Dr Robert care to retract your earlier statement about not reading newspapers or watching TV? ”
Dear Rubes . I don’t have a religious commitment to not reading newspapers or watching TV News/Current Affairs progs , it’s not an * article * ( ho ho ) of faith or anything : but in order to not fall foul of your endearing literalism I’ll qualify my previous statement . I don’t HABITUALLY read or watch …..
Can we get back to really important stuff now , like how you manage to avoid being blown away in light to moderate gusts of wind . Do you fill you pockets with stones to act as ballast ? 🙂
Alf Baird on Iain Lawson’s blog is very much in favour of Scottish freeports.
I really don’t see how anybody could argue that turning Scotland into an international shipping hub would NOT be to Scotland’s benefit. But as Alf Baird points out, the ports would have to be in the right places for maximum benefit. And in the right places, they could be green and use brownfield, ex-industrial wasteland. So what’s not to like?
But hey ho. The criticism in The National, and repeated here, seems to be that the money on offer is not “the right kind of money” for the quasi-religious purists.
Best the Scots sit at home on benefits, I guess.
@John Main 6:59pm
I am in favour of freeports as well. And I do hope Dundee bag one of them. Dundee Harbour operated by Forth Ports has only a very minor handicap of a restricted harbour draught but it is manageable. If ever we needed incumbent SNP elected representatives to punt for the City. Dundee largely missed out on the North Sea bonanza in the past. There will be no excuse this time. Acres of space will good transport access and egress. Give the people work and restore their ambition.
Tory scumbag Douglas Ross defends the removal of the Universal Credit £20 pounds while dishing out food at a foodbank, what a wanker, Ross tries to defend the removal, by saying its not a cut and it would cost billions to keep the £20, meanwhile the Tory government writes off £4.3 billion as fraud in Covid payments to companies.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F19933337.douglas-ross-visits-glasgow-soup-kitchen—defends-benefit-cuts-austerity%2F
John Main,
I think you need to translate “free port” in Tory which means “tax haven” to everybody else. Alf is right though, container terminals at Cockenzie and Scapa Flow would very much be joined up thinking when it comes to a transport policy. Saldly we’ll see nothing like that from the current administration.
Going to give a shout out to Jonathan Shafi for his newsletter, https://jonathonshafi.substack.com If the introduction is anything to go by it will be a worthwhile read.
@Stuart MacKay 8:54pm
Let me check what you are saying. Scapa Flow has better transport connectivity than Dundee?. You get on the Kingsway and Scotland is there. Me and Alf falling out again. I guess that’s because I am a practical person and sees what works instinctively. We have already got a container terminal at Grangemouth. But let’s bypass Dundee again. Never let an academic go to the bakers for a half loaf.
Tannadice
A terminal at Scapa Flow could take the largest vessels and so it would make an ideal transit point for ships taking the route from China or the west coast of the USA via the Arctic Ocean and serve the whole of Western Europe. Also Scapa would make a good base for fisheries protection, etc. It could transform the economies of the northern counties.
In any case this is the sort of thinking that we need not just the ability to doff the cap and take handouts from the Tories.
@Stuart Mackay 9:52pm
Transform the economies of the Northern Counties?. I will hand you over to my wife she was born there. No economic benefit every came from the Oil Industry whether Shetland or Flotta. Ridiculous notion. Caithness and Sutherland can’t even hold down a maternity unit. Of course in an Independent Scotland. Shetland and Orkney will become Crown dependencies. They look after their own. Good luck to them. More strategising of Mr McGoo. We have got brains in Scotland unfortunately they are leaving.
Before Britain joined the EEC there was a lot more emphasis on West Coast ports like Glasgow and Liverpool. The centre of gravity for Britain naturally moved to the east and south east in particular as colonial trade died and integration with European supply chains burgeoned.
Without reviving the British Empire, I wonder if we are going to see that centre of gravity move westwards once again now that we are out of the EU. I’ve got to guess that we will end up doing a lot more trade with the Americas in future and, on the basis that quite a lot of time can be saved, it follows that Atlantic-facing ports will have a natural advantage.
If my logic is good, I’d expect to see the UK Government favour places like Greenock and the Clyde estuary when it comes to building Freeports in Scotland. Cockenzie and Scapa Flow make no sense from a UK perspective — further development of Cockenzie would do little good in an area already well served by ports like Rosyth and Scapa Flow might as well be on the moon as far as UK a logistics is concerned.
Strange I never seen nor heard of this on U.K. Media?
A tax cut for banks described as ‘sickening’ by one Labour MP was passed in the Commons last night. The Finance Bill had its third reading in the House of Commons and included a provision to lower the rate of a surcharge on banking profits of more than £25 million from 8% to 3% from next year.3 Feb 2022
https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk › …
MPs back tax cut for banking profits:
£4 Billion tax break for the filthy rich Casino Bankers who collapsed the economy, pay out no interest to customers, closed local branches and paid off staff.
Let’s take £20 from the poorest to help them make even more?
Oh they did that already!
Why not put up NI for working people too and give it to bankers?
Oh they did that too.
@Hatuey 10:16pm
Goodness me somebody has engaged their brain. The one difference I have got with you. I don’t think EU trade will drop off to the extent you suggest. But it is good to see real debate on this issue.
The National has a story stating Scotland is the most educated country in Europe. That is quite an accolade yet the media has kept it in a box. No surprises there. Drug capital of Europe, oh yes we will trumpet that because the rule for Scotland is publicise the negative and bury the positive.
We really are an occupied country.
@Macduff 10:35pm
True up to a point. Of course we have Further Education courses that basically keep people off the streets. Access courses to nothing. Engineering appreciation courses. They were a joke. Meanwhile we are losing the real brains. Take my dentist best mate since primary school. He only works 2 days a week on private patients. Meanwhile nobody can access NHS dentistry. Believe the SNP if you want to. He is thinking about leaving as well. So when they are no dentists left have the good grace to ask yourself why?.
link to youtube.com
everyone should subscribe to lexo’s channel on youtube
Tannadice: “I don’t think EU trade will drop off to the extent you suggest.”
It will drop off dramatically, the big question is over what sort of timeframe. Imports from the EU to the UK had been falling anyway (with the share of UK imports accounted for by the EU falling from 58% in 2002 to 50% in 2020).
The EU tariff system effectively punishes member states who bring in certain goods from the rest of the world and, while we were in the EU, those tariffs created a huge incentive to buy from other member states (where it was possible).
The UK is free of all that now; slowly and surely we will start buying cheaper (tariff-free) products and services from outside of the EU, replacing old supply chains with new ones. It’s an inevitability.
I’m not and never was pro-Brexit but in terms of what we import and from where, there are huge advantages to being outside the EU. With UK exports things aren’t so predictable.
Tannadice Boy @ 9:06 pm
Optimising the container transhipment hub location in northern Europe
link to sciencedirect.com
@Hatuey 11:54pm
I don’t think the Spanish are going to give up their Christmas seafood easily. It’s a tradition ye know. But they are advantages and disadvantages to Brexit. Basically I don’t think EU trade will drop off dramatically. A hiatus to what it is come. Equally I don’t see World trade as being the way out. As ever a messy compromise. Sell to you ever you can sell to. Leave it to business. They can work it out. Keep political forces out of it.
@Alf Baird 12:00 am
Is that meant to impress me?. Have you ever toured the facilities at Grangemouth?. I will tell you for nothing they are under utilised. Consultancy fees going forward are 600 a day.
McDuff: “The National has a story stating Scotland is the most educated country in Europe. That is quite an accolade yet the media has kept it in a box.”
It’s a matter of opinion that it’s “quite an accolade”. Some people attach more importance to health and living standards, for example.
It’s worth pointing out that levels of say literacy and education in a country do not correlate with other key indicators like life expectancy, high incomes, or wellbeing. The fact is Scotland has some of the worst poverty blackspots in Europe, something Sturgeon has done nothing to address.
From memory, Palestinians rank very highly when it comes to education and literacy — I suspect they were at one time the highest in the world on literacy (I’d need to check that) — but it isn’t clear if being literate helps when you are forced to watch a bunch of well-armed strangers bulldoze your ancestral home.
Alf’s link and abstract seems to make clear that Scapa Flow has the advantage of being a deep-water port, with water depth obviously of huge importance when it comes to these container ships which are huge. I get it.
But that’s all Scapa Flow has going for it. Getting stuff to and from Scapa Flow would be an additional burden and nightmare.
Sorry but that will never fly. If the mainland ports aren’t deep enough, couldn’t we simply make them deeper?
lol @ “Consultancy fees going forward are 600 a day.”
You’re worth it, Tannadice.
Can you imagine ordering a few hundred tonnes of timber and being told to collect from Scapa Flow?
“just leave it on the pier, mate…”
@Hatuey 12:30pm
You can make harbours deeper by dredging but only effect the draught by a few feet. Alternatively you can queue the ships until high tide. And take the compensation of superior transport connectivity. The argument for Dundee Harbour. Of course we have 2 SNP MPs and 2
SNP MSPs plus Humza loitering in the background. Do I expect the case will be made?. Nah keep the people down. Druggies and the destitute are easier to deal with. Meanwhile we will have no services in Fundee. Easy politics.
Dundee and Glasgow are probably the two most pro-indy cities in Scotland. The SNP have counted on a lot of support there.
It was the same before with Scottish Labour, they knew they could count on support in places like Glasgow and Dundee.
Does that mean the SNP will reward Dundee and Glasgow for loyalty and showing support? No, it means the opposite.
Just as Scottish Labour let Glasgow and Dundee rot, the SNP is doing the same.
That’s how it goes with scumbag politicians. In any other walk of life you reward your biggest fans, most loyal supporters and customers. In politics you disregard them and treat them like crap.
Anyway, maybe Boris will take a shine to Dundee… Churchill did and Boris models himself on Churchill.
@Hatuey 1:06pm
Unfortunately the Churchill plaque was defaced in Fundee. Whatever you think about the man he got reelected in Fundee. An extraordinary man. A vulnerable man a man of weakness but a man of interest. I get all the humpfy back stuff. The enigma of Fundee. And Sturgeon matches him?.
‘A large majority of Scots (67%) said they were not following the GRA issue closely, compared to 31% who said they were.’
I wonder if these percentages would apply to ever current issue affecting Scotland?
67% of Scots are totally switched off with the result the UK & SG can do anything they want!
That is quite scary!
What exactly is meant by Scots being highly educated?
Does it mean they can read latin & know all about history of the world the universe & everything but haven’t a clue what’s going on in their daily lives?
What is the normal turnout for local elections? Is it about 30%?
How will this finding affect the Alba vote in the local elections?
Of the 30% who who are following the GRA issue closely what % do you think would be SNP voters? I’m guessing it would be pretty high.
The judgement yesterday regarding the census and self ID , what would happen if the majority of biological women decided to tick the ‘male’ box?
Would this render the census null , void and ridiculous?
Would it be regarded as civil disobedience?
Hatuey says:
18 February, 2022 at 12:30 am
But that’s all Scapa Flow has going for it. Getting stuff to and from Scapa Flow would be an additional burden and nightmare.
Would that not depend on where businesses were based?
Tannadice Boy @ 12:19 am
“Is that meant to impress me?. Have you ever toured the facilities at Grangemouth?”
Actually I spent some time there checking-in containers back in the 1970s. That was before I did a PhD on strategic management in the global container shipping industry in collaboration with the then biggest container line in the world. But maybe you know something about the industry I don’t?
link to semanticscholar.org
Good point Dorothy!
I might self-id as male on the day I fill in the census.
I’ll wear trousers & a hoodie & do lots of male things on the day. Taking out the bins will be fine but it’ll be torture having to watch football.
PS I wear trousers & a hoodie on most days I almost
never wear the ‘womens fancy dress’ that transwomen are so keen on.
What we are up against Dorothy is that 67% of people in Scotland are totally switched off.
Hatuey @ 12:30 am
“Getting stuff to and from Scapa Flow would be an additional burden and nightmare.”
Optimal hub location offers minimal deviation time for mainline ships, and lower average feeder distance for shuttles serving multiple markets, many of which pass via Pentland Firth channel already. Hub also provides options for ‘relay’ transfers, that’s shifting boxes between mainline ships serving different trade routes. Big part of the hub role is also transferring empty boxes more rapidly to areas of demand. Offshore hub therefore saves lines money on vessel op costs. Offshore hub is also much cheaper to build than a normal city gateway port and needs far less reclamation/dredging. Less ship steaming time overall also saves on fuel cons and emissions, so overall its better for the environment. Productivity in offshore hub port is also much higher – no trucks and trains to get in the way…. so ship turnaround is faster.
Tannadice Boy says:
I don’t think the Spanish are going to give up their Christmas seafood easily.
Christmas seafood?
In Spain seafood is not just for Christmas.
Sounds as if Alf knows what he’s talking about.
I’m going to stick with Alf.
Ruby , not so much switched off but uniformed – I’m sure if most were truly aware of what is going on then we might see more robust resistance .
P.S I;m sticking with Alf too!
Ruby @ 9:49 am
“Sounds as if Alf knows what he’s talking about.
I’m going to stick with Alf.”
Thanks Ruby, and Dorothy. Tho nae doot thay’ll come back wi mair negatives, i.e. ‘we cannae dae hit”. Seems to be Scotland’s colonial bane – some folks aye lacking in confidence. Always looking for instructions from the metropolitan centre. Liberation would be a shock for many Scots, to see Scotland rise in the world, nae mair haud doun. Malta, Ireland etc opted to take their independence rather than the offer of a measly couple of seats in Westminster and continued underdevelopment of their peoples and nations; the daeless SNP should have learned from that but don’t appear to have the courage nor intellect.
Great article in Unherd today, “The SNP won’t silence women”.
Now I know the new significance of the T-rex emoji.
For anybody interested in the GRA lunacy (and that should be every sentient Scottish adult), well worth a read.
Here’s a quote:
“the new Alba party, which has pledged to protect and preserve the rights of women and girls”
That needs to be shouted, repeated and communicated much more than it currently is.
Re the free ports issue:
Somebody once said that Scotland has the finest natural harbour in Europe – the Cromarty Firth – deep water and sheltered.
I know, I know, Scotland would have to build a few dozens of miles of dual-carriageway or (whisper it) motorway. Maybes finish the A9. And that rises to 1500 feet and crosses worthless bog so the obstacles are insurmountable.
And it’s the (unwritten) law that no decent, 20th-century roads can ever be built north of Perth.
@ Alf Baird
You spoke some time ago about a possible ferry deal with the designer of medium speed cats. Is that deal still on the table?
Could the existing infrastructure on any, or all, of the current Calmac ferry routes support these vessels?
If not how much modification would the infrastructure need?
How well would they be expected tp perform, on say the Minch, compared with the current fleet? Crossing times, running costs, manning levels etc
Are any of these vessels, or similar, available for time charter to allow for trials on Calmac’s ferry routes?
You seem to be offering an obvious solution to Scotland’s increasing ferry problems. Who’s blocking it?
Has any political party shown an interest or even offered some help?
I don’t want to waste your time but we don’t hear enough about the difficulties caused by the poor performance of the Calmac fleet.
Alf Baird.
😉
Martin Kettle writing in today’s Guardian:
“Suppose Northern Ireland is facing a referendum on unification, or Scotland a vote on whether to go independent. Neither is at all unthinkable within the next decade.”
So there we have the MSM view of Indy Ref 2 folks.
Good chance of it happening before 2032.
Ukrainian forces building up along the borders with Donetsk and Lugansk, both peoples republics have evacuated civilians into Rostov Region of Russia, the OSCE has deployed personnel to monitor what happens next.
Its expected that the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, is on the verge of ordering an offensive in the near future.
“Women fought the law and women won!”
Ho ho ho. For Women Scotland took on the Scottish govt today and won. This is grassroots stuff funded by women all round Scotland.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Also this is the article referred to above. Women are organising and no amount of carrot dangling will shut us up, Nicola
link to unherd.com
Cheers Terry
The Telegraph link was behind I paywall I did the archive thingy.
Here it is:
link to archive.is
From the Telegraph article
“The decision was issued just 24 hours after another group, Fair Play for Women, lost its bid to have guidance which allows transgender Scots to choose whether they are male or female in this year’s census, regardless of their legal status, annulled. It is understood that an appeal hearing in that case will take place on Wednesday.”
I need more info about the census.
What’s it for and does it matter if it’s a load of rubbish?
Why are ‘Fair Play for Women’ having to do all the work.
The census matters. It’s how they plan schools and hospitals and eg maternity services. It has to be accurate. Yet this govt has said basically you can enter how you feel under “sex”. What about age? Ethnicity? Or other categories? They are fools.
There’s already talk of going a Jedi knights thing under religion. For that question instead of writing Muslim, Christian or whatever you could write “believing in biology”. Not as daft as it sounds as the maya forstarter case won on the protected characteristic of a belief in biological reality rather than on the protected characteristic of sex itself
In short sturgeon and her cronies are a pack of clowns. It’s embarrassing. Plus thousands of average women dug into their pockets for this fundraised legal action. And we paid for this rubbish to be foisted on us via our taxes that pay for MSP s jobs and the quangos such as engender and stonewall that get govt grants which is our money. You couldn’t make it up.
Britnat, armpit licking scuzzbucket, says Scotland has too much renewable energy to be independent.
link to 12ft.io
@Alf Baird 9:32pm
I was a consultant for Forth Ports. I have and Engineering background and 3 University qualifications in 3 different disciplines. I still wouldn’t send you to the bakers for half loaf if you think Scapa is the answer. I make no apologies for promoting my home City of Dundee. Let’s face it the SNP are not doing that. I can trade competencies with you all day. But you are wrong on several counts. The main one being Orkney will become a Crown Dependency in event of Scottish Independence. Now I am looking after my Grandaughter today and she is sleeping at the moment hence my belated reply. I am a principled Independence supporter but the SNP are making it very hard. We should be on the same side.
Terry says:
18 February, 2022 at 4:26 pm
The census matters. It’s how they plan schools and hospitals and eg maternity service
Totally mad to plan maternity services for transwomen.
They’ll be 100s of empty maternity wards and midwives having to re-train and shortages of health services for men.
This particular issue might be of more interest to men than woman.
I’m basing this on a guess that there are more men self-iding as women than vice-versa.
I have a feeling ‘Fair Play for Women’ will win the appeal.
The Scottish/SNP government ran an ad campaign saying don’t go to A&E unless you really need to instead phone NHS 24.
240,000 Scots did but got no answer between September last year and January this year.
The SNP government under Sturgeons tenure have failed Scots miserably.
link to 12ft.io
Vote for the Alba party in May’s elections, failure should not be rewarded at the polling booth.
But you are wrong on several counts. The main one being Orkney will become a Crown Dependency in event of Scottish Independence.
Sounds very much like something straight out of ‘Better Together’s Project Fear’
What about the borders will they also become a crown dependency?
I’m still sticking with Al.
Is sending someone to the bakers for half a load one of these trick you play on apprentices ie
sending him for tartan paint, a replacement bubble for a spirit level, a left hand screwdriver, long stand etc.
I’m still sticking with Alf
Sorry Alf.
I was listening to that Paul Simon song and called you Al.
@Ruby 5:02pm
The Orkney Isles have already stated their intention. It is a matter of public record nothing to do the Yoons. Orkney people have a right to self determination don’t they?
@ Terry , Dorothy and others, yes truly the snp are captured by loon balls and I have grave concerns about judges and the justice system , this census has been delayed for 2 years whilst the rest of the uk carried on with theirs ,is this lunacy combined with the influx of newbies to Scotland the reason ,or is it just sturgeon’s snp ineptitude
TBH I think EVERYONE identifying as jedi is the right idea or even pick something more stupid to show the WORLD how lunatic and depraved sturgeon’s snp really is , BUT it needs the public to be made aware and as usual the msm are either NOT reporting the shite or they are supporting it
Tannadice Boy
Why are you stating – as if it’s an inevitability , that Orkney ( and presumably Shetland ? ) would become a Crown Dependency upon Scotland becoming Independent ?
Orkney ( and Shetland ) is/are part of Scotland – whatever their previous Scandinavian links – so , as far as I can see , would- ipso facto – remain so after Independence .
Even if a majority in those islands voted against Independence in any future Ref I don’t see how that could justify they’re becoming what you suggest .
A majority of Scots voted for Independence ( and Remain ) yet were denied their desired outcome . We were told we would just have to suck it up .
Likewise any other part of Scotland should YES win , surely ?
It’s a pity rather thick people with nothing better to do than come on here needling and flirting can’t stay out of interesting debates and let the rest of us see what people with real expertise are saying. I’d very much like to see Tannadice and Alf discuss the ports stuff without people trying to turn the debate into another horrible argument.
Okay, let’s go round again… pretend you care about independence for a while then revert back to being a maggot. Great life.
I myself have had a fantastic day in Kirkcaldy…
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
link to craigmurray.org.uk
link to craigmurray.org.uk
@Robert Hughes 5:23pm
Because that’s what they have already stated. In the event of Scottish Independence they will push for a referendum to control their own affairs. I am not predicting anything. But listening to the people of the Islands. So Yes Ipso Facto they will remain a part of Scotland until they win the right of self determination. You would be a hypocrite to deny them that. But the real question is why do they think like that?. I venture they think Holyrood is a distant centralised power with no interest in the Islands. I put up a substantive post on the Western Isles Ferry Ferguson Marine debacle. The SG lying about the situation. No response. Absolutely none. Is it any wonder the Orkneys are reticent to live under that sort of regime. But I am punting for Dundee it’s up to the people of Orkney to take up the narrative. Over to you.
Orkney & Shetland “became Scottish” when they were handed over in 1472 as part of a royal gift. The inhabitants of the time won’t have been asked what they wanted. Maybes their descendants will demand a re-think if an independent Scotland goes republican, which is what most here would want.
Conversely, Orkney is seeing a lot of immigration from the usual suspects. It is a truism here that these incomers are mostly opposed to Scottish separatism. That being the case, go figure how they may affect and influence any hard choices that may have to be made in the future.
Lastly, we could perhaps muse on the news from Ukraine and realise that things like national borders are not as rigid and fixed as we would like to believe.
Tannadice Boy
It wouldn’t bother me personally if Orkney decided to refuse to be part of an Independent Scotland , but don’t you think it would be tantamount to England retaining a presence in Scotland ? We know from the legacy of Empire the withdrawing power always seeks to retain a foothold in former * possessions *
The ” Crown ” part of Crown Dependency has many implications , none of which I need spell out for you , but the reality is that such quasi-autonomous Anglo colonies tend to become enclaves for the wealthy , Tax Havens , Shell Companyville , * Laundries * , in short , part of the global financial predatory Capitalist structure .
Is that what we’d want on our doorstep . Would such a scenario be the best for Orcadians themselves ? Maybe if it came to the crunch Orkney would opt to be part of an Independent Scotland .
I get your point about the sense people in the Northern Isles have of the – more than geographical- remoteness of Holyrood : it’s a complaint I often hear where I am – Central Highlands- so I can imagine how it feels for people much further away . An irony is though that this SNP/GOV are * remote * from pretty much every part of Scotland
@Robert Hughes 7:25pm
The people of Orkney will decide what is best for them. I am OK with that process. We cannot call out Westminster and then prevent a similar discussion in Orkney. If only we had an effective Government in Holyrood.
Thanks for those links Dan @ 5.38
I’ve never been there but I know a few people from Orkney : don’t know how representative it is , they are staunchly pro-Independence
It’s all very hypothetical anyway seeing as how Independence is but a dim speck on the horizon : receding further over the hill as long as the Stoogeon Squad remain in power
Robert Hughes says:
I get your point about the sense people in the Northern Isles have of the – more than geographical- remoteness of Holyrood : it’s a complaint I often hear where I am – Central Highlands
I live within walking distance of Holyrood. Holyrood couldn’t be more remote if it was on another planet.
I really don’t think people in the Northern Isles or Central Highlands are missing out.
How are you today Dr Robert is the snaw still braw?
Ruby
Naw ! Snaw started to thaw n aw the slushy ice wiznae very nice : then it snawed again , bit turned tae rain : runnin doon ma windae . Pain
Aye I was thinking even people in Auld Reekie are equally excluded from real decision making
Snaw isnae braw and rain is a pain!
People in Edinburgh are just dictated to in the same way as you guys up there in the Highlands.
What you do miss out on is the chance of getting autographs & selfies especially on Thursdays. Do you think that is something you guys feel you are missing out on?
Just last week for example I could have had a selfie with Ross Greer.
The week before with Alex Cole Hamilton.
Are you jealous.
All these MSPs just walk around in the street. They don’t have any bodyguards or any security.
Nobody pays them any attention. Nobody asks for an autograph or a selfie.
I suspect most people don’t know who they are and those who do not want a selfie.
Tannadice: “ The people of Orkney will decide what is best for them. I am OK with that process. We cannot call out Westminster and then prevent a similar discussion in Orkney. If only we had an effective Government in Holyrood.”
Hmmmmmm. It’s a question of sequencing and timing though. It would be for an independent Scotland to agree terms with the people of Orkney after they have expressed and demonstrated a desire to secede.
We all know the British Government is meddling on this and thinks it has found a clever way to steal our oil. Let’s stop pretending this is a pure and simple self-determination issue.
Tannadice Boy @ 32 pm
“I was a consultant for Forth Ports. I have and Engineering background and 3 University qualifications in 3 different disciplines.”
I’ve met quite a few engineers who have been brought into port projects (as well as building roads, bridges, buildings etc), but that doesn’t mean they know much about the global container shipping industry. Tell us what you know about the latter, if anything, and what you may have published on it?
LMAO
See what happens when you think you’re something you ain’t ?
link to msn.com
I’ve no idea why that lion didn’t eat the dug for being such a well….!
@Ruby says 18 February, 2022 at 8:52 pm
“Just last week for example I could have had a selfie with Ross Greer. The week before with Alex Cole Hamilton”
You’ve got that one a*se over t*t Ruby.
Just last week Ross Greer could have had a selfie with you. The same for Alex Cole Hamilton the week before.
There’s nothing special about these boys, or any of the other useless shower in hollyrood.
Regarding the ‘curling’ . Listening to that Steve Cram is insufferable. I had it on record and after 4-5 ends I couldn’t take anymore of his negativity and fast forwarded it to catch last few shots. Unlucky lads-you did well.
It must have been grating for Rhona to commentate with that eggit. Hope he’s no commentating on women’s game- but he will be.
Good luck the mora girls. Sorry I won’t be watching it as am no suffering that clown commentating and will be oot watching the fitba!
“We all know the British Government is meddling on this and thinks it has found a clever way to steal our oil. Let’s stop pretending this is a pure and simple self-determination issue.”
When ‘Mr Bonkers’ isn’t complaining about folk flirting, too many thick people posting and how absolutely wonderful ‘that Ellis cunt’ is and sticks to copying & pasting he occasionally posts something of interest.
With regard to flirting the only flirting I’ve seen is of the bromance variety.
‘Ra-ra-ah-ah-ah
Roma-roma-ma
Gaga, ooh la-la
Want your bro romance
Ra-ra-ah-ah-ah
Roma-roma-ma
Gaga, ooh la-la’
@Alf Baird 1:20pm
You make my point for me. The site selection depends on a range of parameters and factors. Not just about the global container industry. I don’t see this designated area being a bus station for containers. I see the designation of a freeport as being a great opportunity to have spin off industries and inward investment for the region. As long as the fundamentals are there like Port infrastructure and transport connectivity. An eroding industrial hinterland in Dundee can benefit from such a regeneration. I support Port of Dundee to be that site. Whether there is political support in Dundee is another matter. I can’t hand over commercially confidant reports I have written.
“Just last week Ross Greer could have had a selfie with you. The same for Alex Cole Hamilton the week before.”
For me to have a photo with anyone from Holyrood the modelling fee would have to be very high & I would insist they didn’t wear their bloody awful brown shoes.
It would be double for Miles Briggs.
Tory press release in ‘The Herald’ today informing us that
“Tory local government spokesman Miles Briggs has insisted his party hopes to make the most of the preference voting system at the council elections in little over two months’ time and rely on tactical unionist voting to make the Conservatives “the largest party in local government across Scotland”.
Oops I nearly forgot to post a link for those who don’t read newspapers:
Here you go ‘Mr. Bonkers’:
link to 12ft.io
I’m sticking with Alf. Tannadice Boy lost me with his ‘Orkney Crown Dependence
argument’. Why does Dundee deserve special treatment and not Port of Leith, Port of Glasgow and all the other eroding industrial hinterlands of which there are many in Scotland.
Having read the following I have decided to give the freeports argument a miss. It all just sounds like the Tories trying to give the impression they are doing something to help! I expect any port designated as a freeport will be plastered in Union Jacks. Could be that might be the reason they will pick Dundee. 🙂
link to archive.is
‘Are freeports a good idea?
They are not a new idea. The UK set up seven freeports after 1984, including at Liverpool and Southampton, but they were phased out in 2012.
However, the UK government said bringing them back could help attract investment to areas that “need it most”.
Boris Johnson says they will help with “levelling up” – the goal to close the gap between rich and poor areas that was key Conservative pledge at the 2019 general election.
But critics say freeports don’t help the economy overall, and simply move activity from one place to another at a cost to the taxpayer.”
Ruby @ 10.04
You really are a gem ! Funny and smart , a winning combination in my book * baby *
Aye auld Hatz is a beaut right enough . when he’s not regaling us with testaments to his own greatness , displaying his – evident only to himself – intellectual superiority/ looking down his nose at others’ – again , assumed by him – stupidity and making laughably inaccurate predictions – the last one asserting Sturgeon would be booted-out before Johnson HaHa – he makes the odd decent comment .
A strike rate ratio of 1 – 10 .
So what you doin later Rubes , fancy meeting-up for bottle of bucky , y’know wot we proles lackin ejukashun drink ?
Ah well , takes all sorts I suppose
“The Orkney Isles have stated their intention. [Independence] It is a matter of public record. Orkney people have a right to self determination don’t they?” Tannadice Boy 5.02pm
I’m afraid this is a convenient exaggeration. A couple of local politicians threatened to call independence cheered on by Holyrood unionists, not the people of Orkney.
Although many Orcadians feel their roots are more Nordic than Scottish – to them Orkney *is* the mainland, not Scotland – they are not stupid. They know turning themselves into a wee fiefdom will make Orkney an English enclave, their culture obliterated. And it offers no advantage from that they already have.
We do Orcadians a disservice pushing that phony line on them.
Robin.
I know what you mean. Curling is a Scottish sport hence the men and women representing “Team GB ” are Scottish. The BBC can’t stand that there is no English involvement so they make the Englishman Steve Cram the head commentator thus informing the world that they are in charge.
Robbo. Typo.
The loss of bits and pieces of post Indy Scotland – “TAIWANISATION” – will only happen if the Scots leaders really are inept and shitebags to boot; but, if they have had the balls to get as far as independence, it won’t happen.
Orkney and Shetland independence only EVER seems to become “a thing” when Scottish Indy is in the news. It’s a suspicious correlation – something you never hear about, then “Scots want Indy” – bingo. Do me a favour.
– “we’re all the Sons of Ragnar Lothbrok and eat dried puffin?!”
My arse.
Did they really do so well out of the union they would want to stay in it? Yeah – and funnily enough I bet the “orcadian” in the news who is pushing this will have an english accent who did a 23andMe and found he was “1/128th pure nordic viking from the fjords”.
The UK will try it on, for sure, but haven’t got a leg to stand on; carving up the country, post-colony, is not something “international opinion” will suffer. If the UK tried to pull some “Northern Ireland” shite post indy, we should not stand for it. They always try to “take a massive shit” on their way out of the door. Do not let them.
If say, a post indy Scotland, absolutely shafts Orkney and Shetland – wrecks the environment, extracts every bit of wealth with little trickle down – then they would have a moral right to want independence, but not before then. And this would not happen – why would an indy Scotland antagonise a strategic resource like that? The seabed is the new frontier.
Orkney/Shetland have been Scottish for much longer than even the union, remember that.
Post Indy Scotland is not a “pik n mix” where England can grab “the chocolate fudge” and the “caramel”.
An interesting article by Robin McAlpine – Keeping the barbarians outside the gates’ . robinmcalpine.org
Confused @ 1.01
Aye some wannabe berserker with a box-set of ” Vikings ” getting all Up Helly Ya on our arses doth not a credible argument make
“I have repeated over and over again that I can’t understand why people can’t debate policy and strategy without everything always becoming personal – and often unpleasantly personal.”
Robin McAlpine echoing what I said myself just yesterday. It looks like just pointing that out has upset certain people, though… what can one do?
Tannadice wins the debate on ports because his solution is based on what’s best for Scotland (and Dundee), not what’s best in some optimal hypothetical world.
I’m not sure if Alf had Scotland or Europe as a whole in mind when he made the case for Scapa Flow.
Successive UK Governments have invested in places like Felixstowe and Liverpool, ignoring the sort of reasoning that guides Alf Baird, and we can guess why; they’re looking to bolster regional economies, create jobs, and develop the most convenient solutions rather than the most theoretically efficient.
That’s the debate over. Carry on.
Hatuey .
It would help to keep exchanges civilised if people like yourself didn’t resort so readily to insulting references to other’s intelligence , or as you characterise it , lack of same .
Mr Bonkers is a hoot!
He’s been copying and pasting again.
Allow me to do the same:
“And that’s the thing; I’ve been called many things in my life and honestly, the ones which involved swear words were very often the ones that caused me the least pain.
What I find most uncomfortable about all of this is the class-based element of it. In language there are generally two classes – an elite class who are trained in the rules of elite acceptability and the non-elite class who aren’t. It is a function of social power and has been since there was a society.”
I think Alec Cross an independence supporting farmer who writes for the Orkney news might have something to say on whether Orcadians would want to separate from Scotland , if you haven’t read any of his contributions in the Orkney News I would recommend them , it is an interesting community newspaper
“The consequence, though, is significant. If I went onto the BBC and said that I held in my hand conclusive proof that some powerful national figure was (oh, off the top of my head) a child trafficker or someone who exploits trafficked women and in saying so I accidentally dropped the word ‘fuck’ into a sentence, that’s all that the rest of the interview would be about. Me apologising, not me revealing the details of child trafficking.
Such is the power of court, such is the intense solidarity of the elite class in keeping those barbarians outside those gates.”
If you said ‘fuck’ the ‘elite class’ would feel justified in calling you a scheemie, a thicko and a whole series of abusive terms. At least that has been my experience here on Wings.
I can’t be bothered going back to search all the other things I’ve been called by the elites.
The overall message was that I was too thick, too common etc to be posting on Wings. NQTC.
In reply to Mr Bonkers complaints about personal abuse I would suggest he looks up the meaning of ’cause & effect’.
I’m wondering if there is another reason why ‘Mr Bonkers’ doesn’t support Alf?
If I remember correctly Alf has been subjected to a fair amount of abuse by ‘the elite’
That’s weird! The link to the
‘Keeping the barbarians outside the gates’
Seems to have gone into moderation
This is interesting… Robert Hughes has managed something comment-worthy;
“the last one asserting Sturgeon would be booted-out before Johnson”
Let’s recapitulate;
Around 4 weeks ago when all the geniuses who read newspapers and watch TV were excitedly anticipating the imminent end of Boris’s premiership, I predicted not only that he would survive, but that he would outlast Sturgeon. That is exactly the bet and exactly the prediction I made which sits at the heart of it — I made no reference to anyone being “booted” out, or how Sturgeon might exit, and I don’t now.
Let’s discuss the odds you will give me on that bonkers bet. I’m willing to put £100 on it right away, possibly more.
I’m also happy to donate my winnings to Alba or Wings, less my stake. And we have the readership as witnesses and perhaps Rev Stu can help facilitate since he likes a bit of gambling fun.
The bet concludes when Boris or Nicola ceases to be PM / FM.
God almighty… She thinks “the elite” are after her.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Fucking hell.
‘Mr Bonkers’ is a complete bore. He totally lacks any humour or originality.
Anyone get a very acute feeling of deja-vu when reading his bet idea.
What a rip-off merchant!
I wonder who this ‘she’ is that he is referring to in that post where he uses a sweary word. Tut! tut!
What is he trying to prove by swearing do you think?
Do you think this ‘she’ that he posts about might be one of his imaginary friends?
Robin McAlpine – Keeping the barbarians outside the gates
The language being used by politicians, the soundbites, and the acrimony on social media doesn’t surprise me. It is a diversion, designed to bring issues down to gutter level.
As regards independence, it diverts the Scottish electorate from grasping and appreciating the spectacular disintegration of SNP’s raison d’être.
And although the reason for SNP’s fall from grace has been widely discussed on Wings, no consensus has been reached with opinions ranging from sheer incompetence by her, to interference by assorted state groups, to a 21st century Illuminati.
Most likely it is a combination of all three, which amplifies my apparently lone view that the party system in politics is the problem, not the solution.
If, as is often suggested here, political parties are routinely ‘gotten at’ and ‘influenced’ by sundry unelected groups, then they are no better than street gangs for hire, bought and paid for. Part of a sophisticated mafia-type structure in fact, with political leaders akin to Capo’s.
To cap it all, we have electoral systems in Scotland with three different election types and three counting methods, all supposed to arrive at the most ‘democratic’ outcome.
Horses for courses, as the saying does.
Lolz @ “He totally lacks any humour or originality.”
I got to you, didn’t I? And now I ignore you again for a few weeks. It’s almost as if I have a switch.
Now, where’s Mr. Hughes? Out in the braw snaw, no doubt…
“Mr Bonker says
Robin McAlpine echoing what I said myself just yesterday. It looks like just pointing that out has upset certain people, though… what can one do?”
Who are these ‘certain people’?
More imaginary friends?
I’ve read ‘Robin McAlpine’s’ article and nowhere has ‘Mr Bonkers’ said anything vaguely similar not even the part of Robin’s article that he copied & pasted.
Had Mr Bonkers complained about abuse he would have been laughed off the stage.
‘Mr Bonkers’ & his mate ‘that cunt Ellis’ are perfect examples of what Robin refers to as ‘the elite class’ He no doubt recognises this hence the reason he has decide to start using the ‘language of the barbarians’ in an attempt to fool you.
Ebok, I hear you, but you need to outline what you’d replace the party and electoral system with. Otherwise it’s just mwah mwah mwah…
I often wonder if democracy is really the best (or least worst) system.
There is this idea that countries are like ships in treacherous seas — do we really want to vote on how our ship is navigated? Wouldn’t it be better to leave it to experienced navigators who know what they’re doing?
If I was on such a ship, I think I’d argue that we should let the experts call the shots. Why would we let ordinary passengers make or influence decisions regarding things they know nothing about?
Mr Bonkers says
“And now I ignore you again for a few weeks’
I’ve just had this fantastic idea for a bet.
Anyone guess what it might be?
Ebok
So what is needed is a street gang, AKA a political party, that can’t be bought. Not impossible, because it has happened before. The old Labour Party was like that. Polish Solidarity was like that. Communities of working people got together and funded politicians from amongst themselves. Because these politicians remained rooted in the communities from which they came, they stayed true.
For a while. As power corrupted them, and the carpet baggers joined them, the original ethos was lost. The rest we know. Today’s Labour detests ordinary working people.
Seems to me that Scottish Indy started from the grassroots just like Labour did, but the representative party, the SNP, was bought, corrupted, and hollowed out much more quickly. Does the SNP now detest ordinary Indy supporters? Some here would say they do.
Well Hatz , I can’t be arsed trawling through 100s of comments to check , but my memory is you said Stooge would go before Bawface .
It’s possible I mis-remembered , if so , I’ll accept my punishment of being ignored by you .
If my memory is correct I’ll except my reward of being ignored by you .
Win + Win scenario for me .
Odd i’nt it , having abstract * arguments * with people you’ve never met n know nothing about , how our minds form pictures of our phantom interlocutors .
I bet yr nothing like the wee green man smoking a hookah in a tree-house I picture you as 🙂
Hatuey
There’s a big difference between navigating the ship and setting the destination.
By all means let the experts run the ship.
But what is supposed to happen, is that the passengers (voters), choose where the ship is supposed to go to.
I don’t like the sound of ‘HMS Bonkers’ It’s as if you just get on board for a ‘magical mystery tour’ and let the ships captain dictate where you are going.
I would like to be able to choose the destination and if the ships captain deviates from the route I would like to be able to vote for a new captain.
link to tinyurl.com
Snap! John Main
Great minds ………….
Hughes: “my memory is you said Stooge would go before Bawface”
Correct. That’s what I did say. That’s what I am saying now. You can make money from the bonkers guy. He isn’t threatening to ignore you either — don’t make things up.
From crashing bottles to crashing waves…
John, when you think about it, letting the passengers choose the destination raises all the same issues. Have a vote on things like that and you end up in Disney World or some such stupid place.
Have a vote on things like that and you end up in Disney World or some such stupid place.
‘Mr Bonkers’ believes people are too thick to vote.
Are you surprised?
” ….Because these politicians remained rooted in the communities from which they came…”
This is the key point , and why , yes , we need a * street gang *
I’m afraid , no offence intended , ALBA , are not that street gang .
I’ll support them and hope they do well , but I believe we need something different .
Don’t ask me what that ” something ” is : I don’t know .
But I’ll know it when I see it .
Good post John .
There’s an awful lot of personal insults going on in here today… Are they really necessary to convey the point you want to make?
Complaints about personal insults have been going on since George Foukes coined the term ‘cybernat’
A sesrch on Google returns a long list of articles about ‘cybernats’. ie
‘Cybernats unmasked: Meet the footsoldiers of pro-Scottish independence ‘army’ whose online poison shames the Nationalists’
SNP declares war on cybernats
It’s too late for the SNP to rein in the cybernats
and thousands more
</b.
It's an interesting topic. If I were any good at writing I would write an article about these 'complaints about personal abuse'
In the meantime I will do some research and share my findings.
Robin MacAlpines article is interesting enough but he's been so well indoctrinated he's afraid to say fuck.
link to archive.is
This article by Kevin McKenna is better
To solve this problem a curious gentrification of politics began to gain favour. This is how it works. You first seek to portray many of those who use social media as rude, foul-mouthed and irresponsible. You dismiss them as “trolls” and describe them as vile and dangerous. They are causing untold distress to nice, polite and well-mannered folks who have always refrained from using bad language. As some of the most effective and therefore dangerous practitioners of this anarchic new medium were supporters of Scottish independence, a special designation had to be found. Thus the term “cybernat” was born.
link to archive.is
This is an interesting one with Angus Robertson, Stewart McDonald and Alyn Smith complaining about cybernats they describe them as “cowards”, “weird”, “creepy”, “snarling”, “vicious”, “poisonous” and “vile”
Smith said
“We all need to step up,” he said, adding: “This is allowing us to be portrayed in a certain way that’s damaging.” When pro-independence social media users are abusive and insulting, Smith said, all members of the Yes movement should “call them out and send them to Coventry. Make them persona non grata forever – off you pop, you aren’t one of us if that’s how you behave”.
It’s a bit worrying that YES supporters are heading the message of Aly Smith without giving too much though to the reason why these three “weird”, “creepy”, “snarling”, “vicious”, “poisonous” and “vile” people want to enlist your help to silence people
These three were very quiet when Alex Salmond was being abused! How more abusive and insulting can you be than to falsely accuse a man of crimes that could have seen him spend the rest of his life in prison.
I do believe Sarah Smith who is currently wittering on about abuse was very much part of the very serious abuse Alex Salmond was subjected to.
I don’t think the term ‘being cancelled’ was in vogue when the SNP declared war on the ‘cybernats’ but that was exactly what they are doing or attempting to do.
The SNP have now declared war on transphobes, terfs & women who wont wheesht.
Research notes:
Find out about:
The PC Brigade!
How successful were the PC Brigade in silencing people.
Gordon Brown & the bigoted women.
David Blunkett on immigration
“To be fair, there have been times when – through political correctness or a genuine fear of unleashing racism – the raising of immigration by the conservative right has not been met with a clearly articulated and nuanced response”
Did the PC Brigade prevent talk about immigration.
I’m just wondering if everything is so quiet in Scotland because the PC Brigade, The War against cybernats & the ‘cancelling culture’ have been so successful that people have been struck dumb.
Have all these ‘pressure groups’ had more of an effect on Scotland because of our colony status?
2 excellent posts Ruby .
The – selective – hand-wringing , particularly from the – alleged – Indy MPs MSPs – re * abuse * is absolutely designed to quell all legitimate , strongly-expressed criticism .
The ones who most prominently express their * disgust * at * vile * * cybernatery * are the same ones who passively allow the ongoing attack on the living standards , legal rights and future prospects of the * ordinary * people they are supposed to be defending . So busy signalling their virtue they’ve abandoned the field to our opponents
link to gordondangerfield.com
Gordon Dangerfield always worth reading.
This is link to 12ft.io
Awful ‘cybernat’ headline pissed me off, says Stewart McDonald
McDonald told the paper that aggressive online Yes supporters needed to “just fucking chill out a bit … some of the anger is over the most absurd things”.
It seems it’s OK to swear call people “weird”, “creepy”, “snarling”, “vicious”, “poisonous” and “vile” but just don’t get angry.
Stu cancelled from Times today. Looks as if Mike Russell got angry and had his post removed.
Hatuey says:
19 February, 2022 at 9:06 pm
‘Ebok, I hear you, but you need to outline what you’d replace the party and electoral system with’
Not difficult, Hatuey. Simply remove the party nametag from candidates. They would stand on issues they feel are important to them, voters would choose the candidate that aligns closest with their views. There should be only one party – the Scotland Party. All MSPs should be fighting only for the best interests of their constituents and the Scottish people.
As for electoral system, John and Robert came close to my thoughts. I’d have one rep. for every 10,000 of population, around 420 in total. They would be responsible for national AND local politics. I’d end local elections. One election every three years. FPP system would be in place – it will work fine when confined to smaller close knit constituencies.
All MSPs would sign an inflexible T&C agreement. Harsh penalties for lies, corruption, collusion with outside interests, unjustified deviation from pre-election promises.
Mornin’ Dr Robert.
Glad you liked my post. Since ‘certain people’ are ignoring me I don’t expect to receive any negative comments & abuse.
I thought I would have a nice lazy day today but I’ve run out of coffee so I’m forced get up and go to the ‘Nespresso Boutique’ in Multress Walk. It’s very posh!
I’ll probably walk through ‘Le Quartier St James’ that’s very posh too. Going way outside my ‘comfort zone’ today.
Thankfully it’s a nice dry sunny but cold morning here in Edinburgh. How are things in the Highlands. Snaw Braw?
Persona non grata for ever eh?
For posting something “deemed” abusive online?
This ties in with the earlier discussion about how we could reclaim our lost democracy. IMO, we should immediately dismiss any representative who can no longer distinguish between cyberspace and reality.
In the real world, even most murderers eventually get to see their conviction as spent and their rehabilitation complete.
In the real world, people are hungry, cold, broke, ill, threatened and on the receiving end of violence. Yet some of those supposedly working to help these people are fretting over tweets, emails and posts containing bad words.
Give me strength.
Dr John Campbell on YouTube suggested that the pressure to vaccinate 5 to 11 year olds came primarily from Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford, that Boris was inclined against but finally agreed to go along.
There’s really no scientific basis in existing data for proceeding with this plan. The JVCI report itself states as much; link to gov.uk
The only thing resembling a plausible argument for vaccinating kids goes something like this; despite the fact that vaccine protection wanes in a matter of weeks and covid presents virtually no risk to the health of 5 to11 year olds, it’s possible that some residual immunity will be achieved to some future covid variant that at this time does not exist.
That isn’t scientific. It is closer to a religious or supernatural argument.
Note that here I have only given consideration to the argument FOR vaccinating kids (the above is that argument in its entirety btw, when you filter out the crap); I have not outlined arguments AGAINST although I am considering doing so.
Let it be recorded that I am 100% opposed to using any of the current covid vaccines on children and that I consider the plan deeply disturbing.
@Hatuey 1:41pm
A good starting point is the article in the BMJ titled should Children be vaccinated against Covid 19?. It lists the For and Against and categorised them into Individual and Community factors. Easier to understand than the Government stuff.
If you read legislation passed in Westminster under the health Act.
It is Westminster’s that advises the devolved governments on the way forward.
It is interesting to note they advise that the devolved governments do not need to register what someone died of if the buried is to be a cremation.
Beggars believe if you want stats to see how many died of or….. with covid. Or perhaps physical abuse under lock down.
And of course Westminster could curtail NS under the British Parliament health Act emergency powers if they so wished.
Perhaps they won’t, as she is a good puppet for the Scots to be confused over when it comes to these.issues..
When scrutinised the British governments heath Act of overriding the devolved governments.
The British Westminster government is the ultimate controller of The emergency powers of and under the health Act.
It advises how the devolved governments across Britain should Act.
And therefore are allowing the devolved governments to use and over act in this way.
Tannadice, yes, it is a good enough starting point but was based on the experience of Delta and previous variants. Omicron changed everything and other important things have come to light recently.
If we had anything like a functioning media in Scotland, they’d be demanding to know why Sturgeon and her cohorts were so keen on doing this.
If you watch anything today, watch this; link to youtube.com
Please be assured that John Campbell is really as conservative as you get when it comes to vaccines, etc.
I hear your team did well today 😉
This is such a good article on where we stand, and where we might be going under Sturgeons and Westminster’s tenures, and it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
@Hatuey 3:33pm
I would rather speak about fitba than Covid. However it is the Covid children discussion that is circulating in my family just now. And I suspect quite a few families in Scotland. Just when we thought we were escaping. An honourable draw for my team. Defended well even if they rode their luck at times.
@Hatuey 3:33pm
Thanks I watched the video. Again easier to understand than the Government stuff. Factual analysis. I shook my head at the form the public are expected to fill out. We were proceeding with caution anyway but I think I will refer to my son for his take on it. The SG need informed consent and we have a few in the 5 to 12 category amongst the extended family. The SG will be waiting for some time. Everybody else is fully vaccinated but we are naturally more cautious with the children.
@ Ebok 11.23am I agree that politicians should be held to account and be held more responsible , I despise the get outs under corporate responsibility , they want the big bucks but it is always someone else to blame when things go tits up
And that is exactly what is happening in HR ,these clowns , all of them in HR have facilitated a proposal for a BAD policy which has been shown to infringe the law as it stands , YET ordinary citizens are being FORCED to appeal to other citizens for money to oppose those unlawful policy proposals put forward by a SG who WILL NOT listen , a SG who have a multitude of solicitors and legal experts working on their behalf but who are either not EXPERT enough to know they are breaking current laws OR they know and have advised the govt re the situ but the govt don’t give a shit
Either way we are dealing with not just a SG but the Scottish Parliament who are NOT competent enough to determine if the proposed legislation is viable or legal or infringes on current legislation , THIS shows the GROSS INEPTITUDE of all the politicians parking their arses in HR WHEN the citizens have to raise money for lawyers to educate these morons
YET the morons who voted acceptance of these policies can swan about HR and preen themselves at their progressiveness with NO ACTION taken against their STUPIDITY or waste of finances , we HAVE to make them more answerable
Hatuey spins 180 degrees on Covid vaccines and hopes nobody will say anything.
Some of us have been pushing the line that there is a simple age-related cost-benefit analysis applicable to the Covid vaccines for over a year now. Few were more scathing or critical of that viewpoint than Hatuey.
So I guess congratulations are in order, Hatuey. It took you a year to get there. But we finally won you around.
Anything else I can help you with Hatuey, just let me know. No need for you to always be a year behind the curve.
This blogs host calls Mike Russell’s bluff.
link to gettr.com
Mike Russell says he will respond to the REVS challenge in the style of the Gypsy Callout video
link to youtube.com
– and Robin McAlpine’s says in his latest he will : punch the absolute F*** out of any W***** who F****** calls him a C****N**
(that’s my hot take, anyway)
John Main: “Some of us have been pushing the line that there is a simple age-related cost-benefit analysis applicable to the Covid vaccines for over a year now. Few were more scathing or critical of that viewpoint than Hatuey.”
We can very easily demonstrate you are either lying or wrong about that. I’ll let others decide on that.
Here’s what I said on vaccinating kids on the 9th of August last year; link to wingsoverscotland.com
Note that I said that about a month before the JCVI came to a very similar conclusion, as explained here; link to gov.uk
In civilised company I’d probably expect an apology or retraction of some sort, but we all know standards have gone to the dogs in here lately so that’s okay.
Note that there was no serious discussion about vaccinating kids until mid to late summer last year as the focus until then was on rolling it out to the most vulnerable and adults. So, you weren’t pushing anything like that over a year ago — the vaccine was just being rolled out over a year ago. More verifiable crap…
Anyway, in short, contrary to what John Main says, I was basically alone in here and ahead of the scientific curve when last summer I explained there was no real argument for vaccinating kids and I even gave emphasis to the potential risks involved. Here’s my exact words from early August 2021;
“I don’t think you can force kids to have a vaccine that will offer them very little additional protection, subject them to unnecessary risks in terms of side effects, so that you can improve the chances of someone else when the risk to the someone else are also statistically very low thanks to the vaccine.”
The JCVI agreed with that assessment in September last year.
The point I am making today is that the case for vaccinating kids is much weaker than it was back then, thanks to omicron which is a significantly milder disease-inducing variant.
We also have much clearer data on the risks of myocarditis than we had back then, a condition much more likely to afflict younger people, and the data is compelling enough to support the view that vaccinating kids is a terrible idea.
You’re welcome.
@Hatuey 11:24pm
I don’t think standards have gone to the dogs on this blog but rather integrity and standards in the Scot Gov have gone to the dogs. The Scot Gov have tooled up with a 250 million legal contract on the Covid defence of their actions for the Covid Public Inquiry. They obviously dont know what we know. It’s about saving reputations and in particular Nicola’s. It’s our tax payer money. And then there is the unexplained one billion pound fees for consultancy. What have they produced?. When I read today that Nicola’s eyes glazed over at the topic of economics I knew the game was up. I once wrote on this blog that Kate Forbes was the leader after the next leader. She is apparently the only adult in the room on money and economic matters. So perhaps the next leader. Something has to happen soon. The Independence movement is dying here.
@Hatuey 11:36pm
I get the myocarditis debate. And we are waiting on a response from our sources. I think it was me that coined the phrase that Omicron was the saviour variant. And we have the information on the 21st December decision. 250 million legal fund is not going to be enough. 1 billion was lost to the Scottish economy. It was a terrible decision.
True Tannadice: “The Independence movement is dying here.”
And if it dies, Nicola will most surely get a mention on the death certificate.
Most of us are at a loss. With the BBC and other powerful beasts supporting her, it seems there’s very little we can do.
Something’s got to give, though, and soon. And that’s why I’m pretty sure Nicola will be out of office before Boris.
I’m not as sure about Forbes as I used to be but I have predicted that she might be the one that stands up and does something towards bringing Nicola down.
Nicola is slowly and surely becoming a vote-loser for the SNP. At some point, someone will challenge her. And I don’t see who Sturgeon will turn to for support when the time comes — nobody can stand her.
I can’t help but think there’s a lot more going on than we know with this regime, and that we are all in for a few shocking surprises.
As a father of a daughter with autism I actually fear for her future in the Scotland that Sturgeon & Harvie are creating. It’s no wonder they where so determined to go after Salmond a front line return for Salmond without his reputation being destroyed was the biggest threat to their Stonewall PiE agenda or as it’s now known TIE fully funded by the Scottish Government to brainwash our weans.
Surprise Surprise though once again despite the usual attacks from those within Sturgeons inner circle and her tranny activists, Stu has once again been proven right with the SNP latest guidance effectively lowering the age of consent.
Under Salmond SNP stood for Scottish National Party under Sturgeon it’s the Stonewalls Nutjobs party.
I would say people need to Wake the F up, but I suspect by the time people do wake the F up the pervs and pedos will already have exactly what they want.
@Hatuey 12:14pm
Any port in a storm but if it is true she has handle on economics and is the only one in cabinet that does, then she gets my vote for now. We simply cannot keep spending hundreds of millions with no return. Somebody has to pay for this largesse and it will be our youngsters. No MSM cover on these stories, tells it’s own story of paradox.
another poor decision by the SNP
link to rt.com
Those not respecting Stu’s wishes have a cheek to talk about ‘standards going to the dogs.’
Stu said NO FIGHTING ABOUT COVID!
Confused says:
20 February, 2022 at 9:04 pm
Mike Russell says he will respond to the REVS challenge in the style of the Gypsy Callout video
(that’s my hot take, anyway)
LOL
Please tell me these guys are talkin’ in code?
Hatuey
Twice that I noted, you posted on here:
“As for the unvaccinated, fuck them”
If you intended an exception for children, you spectacularly failed to make that clear.
Were you ever in the USMC, Hatuey?
They famously never retreat. But they have been known to make a fighting advance to the rear.
You would fit right in.
The sex survey has designed to justify lowering the age of consent and I think everyone knew that.
I wonder what they mean by a ‘safe’ relationship?
What are they planning vis a vis contraception for these sexually active children?
What happens in the event of a child becoming pregnant? How will that be kept a secret from parents?
Unwokey Blokey says:
I would say people need to Wake the F up, but I suspect by the time people do wake the F up the pervs and pedos will already have exactly what they want.
I agree but I think people have been cowed into silence firstly by the PC Brigade, then by the SNP declaring war on the cybernats, and now with the aid of the police declaring war on ‘women who won’t wheest’
There is also this idea if you swear or are not educated enough you should keep your trap shut. Check the BTL comments on this very forum for evidence of this.
People do need to wake up and stick two fingers up to those who are trying to silence them that includes the fuckin’ grammar police & folk obsessed by punctuation.
Perhaps to avoid censorship we need to invent a code see ‘Gypsy call out video’
‘Remember mamma holding the stamps.’
“You go hump a lion & squinty Kathleen’s bike’
“we praised Michael’s brown willy”
Did the BBC not do something like this during the war. They sent coded message to the French resistance.
“Molasses tomorrow will bring forth cognac.”
“Jean a une longue moustache”
“The long sobs of the violins… fill my heart with a monotonous languor.”
I’m proposing it should be ‘confused’ who invents the new code and this new code should be trialled on the twitter accounts of
Angus Robertson, Stewart McDonald and Alyn Smith.
Lolz @ John Main desperately trying to change the subject… same old aspersive crap, though.
You should do your homework before you slander someone like that. I guess in your personal circles anything goes, but in the real world of civilised debate we have standards.
Lesson learned, pissant?
I’m feeling a bit like Clint Eastwood now…
Unforgiven.
Anyway, sorry to interrupt the engaging conversations you were all having.
Carry on.
Lolz.
Mr. Bonkers has cooked the tapioca.
O/T: Craig Murray is today asking for £80,000 urgently to pursue his case against the contempt ruling by judge Dorrian [can’t bring myself to add the handle]. If he wins his case this will protect the new media from being set different standards than those applied to the MSM.
Since the arrangement was most likely put in place when May was PM, it’s probably more appropriate to describe it as a UK Government/SNP deal, rather than a deal the SNP have exclusively with Boris, but it amounts to the same thing. I get the impression Boris firmed up the deal in some way and is enjoying it.
I’m referring to the arrangement that’s obviously in place, hinted at by Boris repeatedly in the Commons (much to the annoyance and embarrassment of Blackford), and naturally hated by Scottish Tories because it undermines them and dooms them to fight the SNP with one arm tied up their back.
A lot of people have been wondering about this. How else do you explain the anger of Scottish Tories towards Boris? The deal leaves them compromised in terms of what they can weaponise up here and on what issues they can confront the SNP, that much is clear.
Follow it through and you’ll find it explains a lot, especially in terms of why the SNP have had such an easy ride on things like the Salmond scandal, handling of Covid, gender stuff, etc., etc. And, of course, it explains why BBC Scotland, as part of the UK State propaganda service, transitioned from Project Fear to Project Protect Nicola…
Putin just announced that he is recognising the Donbas republics sovereignty.
link to 12ft.io
Sturgeon again attempting to shut people up.
No criticism of journalists is acceptable.
“Nobody should put up with that abuse, no journalist whatever their gender should put up with abuse for doing their job.
“Journalists are an important part of the fabric of our society and politicians are rightly scrutinised and held to account by journalism. So nobody should put up with that kind of abuse.” Sturgeon
What happens when people do not think they are doing their job or that the job they are doing is detrimental to their lives/cause?
Who is scrutinising the journalists? Are they a protected species who must never to scrutinised?
I wonder if Sturgeon, Davidson & Smith ever wonder why they are being subjected to what they consider abuse. Do they ever question that there is a reason for the ‘abuse’?
It seems to me what these ladies are saying ‘any criticism of us is unacceptable’
Why aren’t they staying behind late in the Commons making impassioned speeches in support of bombing Moscow, as they did when Syria was allegedly misbehaving?
It’s puzzling. So much for their fake principles.
” I wonder if Sturgeon, Davidson & Smith ever wonder why they are being subjected to what they consider abuse. Do they ever question that there is a reason for the ‘abuse’? ”
No Ruby , they don’t : they can’t grasp that there are consequences for actions and consider themselves above criticism.
They can’t grasp that people – the ” Deplorables “- are fuckn sick of that whole Political/MSM nexus .
It’s sense of it’s own importance , it’s collusion in maintaining the existing self-serving lucrative ( for them ) power imbalance . It’s constant failure to serve the needs of people who pay their wages
It looks like having Putin recognise the independence of the Sovereign State of Scotland is
a better prospect than SNP having anything to do with it.
Isn’t it wonderful the resolve and demands of Westminster that the people of Ukraine have the democratic right to vote for their own Ukrainian leaders to govern over them but Scotland must not have access to any such thoughts or rights.
Has anyone enquired if wee baroness Ruth has returned the £20,000 back hander for her election campaign given by a Russian woman associated with Putin?
If Putin recognises my house as an independent sovereign state, it means I can avoid paying council tax to the corrupt grifters who run the cooncil. Just need one of them “hypersonic” missiles to seal the deal. Some contractual arrangement might be needed for bin collection.
(- only marginally less legitimate than say, Kosovo, but hey – amazing things happen when you have “international law”, i.e. America, behind you.)
Scotland should welcome refugees from the Ukraine – we will take the females, 16-25. Just “doing our bit” – we can chuck out those afghans and other mystery meats in order to make room for them; they don’t like the cold anyway, bless, and irn-bru is not halal.
This is the kind of multiculturalism I can live with, and things could get vibrant. If Sweden ever attacks Norway we could do something similar – no borders I say, no one is illegal.
– might even get the birth-rate moving again, past replacement level.
Russian troops are on the march… it’s all gone a bit Pete Tong.
Will Eastern Ukraine satisfy Russia’s desire for a buffer state? Will Western Ukraine now be free to join NATO?
This could get interesting.
Boris announces more sanctions against Russia on top of those imposed when Crimea was
invaded and captured.
Firstly all Russian diplomat’s Tesco Club cards will no longer gather points.
Russian caviar will no longer be served at Downing St parties that are not a party.
Russian football teams in the Champions league will no longer have access to half time pies.
Vintage re-runs of Dad’s Army TV shows will be banned from broadcast in the Soviet Union.
Let’s see how long Putin and his Cossacks can hold out against Boris and his Bollocks.
” The US is a de facto one-party state where the ideology of national security is sacrosanct, unsustainable debt props up the empire and the primary business is war. ”
Want to know why * we * are where * we * are geo-politically ?
Read this
link to scheerpost.com
Just read that a barrel of oil broke through the $98 mark and it’s heading North.
Queue all the Union media Chanel’s full of apologies for saying an independent Scottish
economy could never see oil with that sort of value.
They better rush out now to say how bad oil is for the environment as Westminster stuffs it’s
Pockets silly with the cash.
This could found more wallpaper for Carrie at No 10.
HSBC Bank that was fined heavily for money laundering has just announced record profits up from $13.9 Billion to $18.9 Billion.
Who says Casino banking and corruption doesn’t pay.
They have removed interest rates for customers, increased charges across the board and
try getting a mortgage without at £1,000 plus Admin fee.
£8.90 of that goes straight to the young trainee who puts approved on the stamper.
Time for an advert assuring the public of how it’s all about Loving you and working together.
As the Russian tanks roll into Ukraine, one of the tank commanders was interviewed on tv. he said ‘we are just doing this to test our eye sight’. Bunter responded ‘that’s ok then’.
What a great time for the Poileas and Sue Gray to release their findings in to all the parties!
“As the Russian tanks roll into Ukraine,”
Chas.
Where are the Russian tanks in Ukraine? Do you mean the in the independent republics of Donetsk and Lugansk?
Meanwhile the English Tory government wants to flood the UK with Canadian beef pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, as Johnson’s government begin negotiations on a trade deal with the country.
The usual BS replies from the SNP have taken place asking Johnson not to allow the beef into the UK.
Also the Electoral Commission has railed at the English Tory governments attempts to influence how it works, which would allow the Tories to shape how the EC applies its laws, nine of the ten EC commissioners have written letters of protest to the government.
In my opinion the EC is already a partially captured body, Johnson is just making it official.
Meanwhile Edinburgh will begin rehoming over 200 Afghanis, probably those who aided the Great Satan and its minion the UK in Afghanistan against their own people and now they’ve had to flee.
Spare a thought for our own homeless families who cannot find a home.
RoS
Are Donetsk and Lugansk independent states simply because that nice Mr Putin says they are?
I really do not want to enter into a ‘dialogue’ with you as this would be a waste of my time.
@Hatuey says – 21 February, 2022 at 1:19 pm
“in the real world of civilised debate we have standards”
Well well Hatuey, I have sometimes wondered where exactly you stand, but wherever it is, I never imagined you could see the real world from there. Not even on the far, distant horizon.
Anyways, you brought a wee smile on a depressing morning, so my thanks.
@Republicofscotland 22 February, 2022 at 9:49 am
“Do you mean the independent republics of Donetsk and Lugansk?”
Come on Republic, get off your lardy a*se.
You can be the first in Scotland to recognise the independent republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.
What you waiting for???
“Are Donetsk and Lugansk independent states simply because that nice Mr Putin says they are?”
That’s how it begins, remember Kosovo.
When the time comes at the very least China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela and Nicaragua, will recognise the two republics, and more will follow.
Lets not forget the Great Satan (USA) pushed for the creation of South Sudan.
link to en.wikipedia.org
John Main.
If Ukrainian president Zelensky hadn’t listened to Biden and went ahead and implemented the Minsk agreements with Russia, this would not have happened, however the puppet president decided to listen to the Great Satan, and now we are here.
And yes I recognise both republics as independent.
link to archive.is
I’m not a Russian sympathiser, but since the American backed coup deposed the democratically elected Viktor Yanukovych back in 2014, I think it’s at least arguable that Russia, and Putin have at least some claim on the moral high ground, and to date have actually been fairly restrained in their reactions.
Don’t forget, back in 1990, following the re-unification of Germany, and East Germany becoming “Westernised”, the then U.S. Secretary of State, James Baker gave “not one inch eastward” assurances about NATO expansion to Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
The warmongering Governments, lobbyists, and Corporations of the “West”, as ever it seems, have great difficulty in either remembering their promises, honouring their promises, or telling the truth when they make their promises to begin with.
They’re not fussy about who it is they lie to either, whether that’s foreign governments or their own domestic populations, nor indeed do they prosecute their own War Criminals.
Meanwhile in Scotland, Craig Murray is fighting to keep non-MSM media safe from the Establishment. Yesterday he said on his site that he needs £80,000 immediately in respect of the case that is being heard tomorrow.
I sent a small contribution and hope that there are enough others willing to help. 1600 people sending £50 would do the trick.
As usual, MSM are allowed to attend the hearing tomorrow but online non-IPSO journalists and the public are not allowed in, nor is there on-line streaming.
Nor is Craig’s team allowed to make a transcript [which they would need for an appeal to Strasbourg].
Is everyone in Scotland feeling happy with our justice system?
Update: Craig has received in 24 hours half the sum needed, he has just tweeted. So now only 800 people sending £50 each would be sufficient.
My day has got slightly less gloomy knowing there are quite a few decent people [who can find some cash] willing to help the cause of truth.
Quick assessment of the world citizens.
We state that the governments are the problem .
And the top of the hill their places are only secondary to the invisible funding.
This comes often from outside our own country’s.
It does not always lead us to Russia, China etc.
But to the likes of stonewall.bill gates foundation, sorrows, ( deliberate spelling mistakes) Santa Claus swab.
We are not wise trying to come at these problems across the world with tickle feathers.
The yellow vests have been protesting for two years,
Protests are in every country around the world.
But the media black out is bought and payed by funding,
We have experienced that here in Scotland as much as anyone over the years.
So how strong are any invisible governments and their actors placed as head of governments around the world without the aid and abetting of paid for media.
As far as can be seen media is and was their weak link in the chain in every country,
That is why the clamp down on free speech is taken place in every country around the globe.and by every big corporation who has social media.
And paid for instigators and agitators are placed in nearly every blogger feeds around the world.
NS is not our target really.
She will just be replaced with another puppet as is around the world,
These are all temporary governors.
What buys the media?
Money.
What buys the tinpot dictators?
Money.
What buys the mechanics of taking a country Down?
Money.
So as much as they reduce our finances to weaken the people, for employment to be lost, for emergency measures to bring our and every country to its knees.
Money is their god.
To have ultimate control of people would be to ensure their was never any money availability to the citizens, that control of people can be organised by moving away from hard cash,
People’s savings, people’s pensions, people’s wages, people’s mortgages, people’s food.
Is easier to control when digital
No more withdrawing your finances from a bank, no more saving under the bed, no more inheritance to pass on to family.
This is where tinpot Trudeau has just gone with his emergency powers.
Control of protestors finances.
Tinpot dictators digitally accessing protestor money and savings.
Taking their finances with emergency powers.
Leaving protestors without their vehicles
Taking driving licences away from protestor to government overreach.
And in one case taking their home through with government overreach through their mortgage,
Digital currency, government minimum wage can be withdrawn as a punishment , and no ability to access cash
Has the citizens of every country at the feet of every tinpot dictators, wishing to control its people.
You’re food, you’re home, you’re vehicle, you’re wages, you’re livelihood, youre shopping on line, you’re bank, you’re savings , you’re pensions can all be stopped and withdrawn digitally.
A cashless society is a controlled society.
To foresee the future of all people and the direction governments are going around the world is no longer a conspiracy,
It has now happened in Canada.
For NS also wants to prolong emergency powers, as does America. Australia, New Zealand, France. Wales, etc
The vaccine passports are aiding and abetting the control.
For those going on about vaccinated or unvaccinated are encouraging emergency powers to be abused over citizens.
The long term effect and abuse of emergency powers for governments is disingenuous when you see Trudeau accessing people’s finan in Canada if citizens do not agree to vaccines.
Which by the way is atrocious as most of the people and truckers have been vaccinated.
It is an excuse and abuse of emergency powers that is coming to Scotland through a tinpot dictator puppet, NS.
But she is easily replaced by another tinpot dictator.
We never get what we vote for in Scotland.
Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford cementing his unionist credentials in the House of Commons today, condemning Putin and Russia for defending their borders from relentless Nato expansion, I wonder if Blackford has ever had an independent thought in his entire life.
Climate change is on the next agenda to bring a country to its knees, to control movement of people, to control how you eat, what you can buy, how you are taxed, your allowed ration of energy supply,
Your allowance for a daily water intake,
You’re air,
You’re housing.
You’re allowed transport.
All the above have already been discussed & debated in the WEF, by Santa Claus, sorrows, Charlie, Blair, Attenborough. Etc etc..
Now we are witnessing it being implemented.
NS is just one of many government leaders using emergency powers for abusing its people.
The word “emergency” at the end of climate change, sets the tone for the next abuse of NS, Trudeau, Boris emergency powers.
RepublicofScotland.
If you have read my comments at all.
You will find all the internal workings are paid for actors to bring the people to their knees in Scotland,
You are watching a drama as good as any soap on TV.
What amazes me personally is those that are play acting think they are one of the top actors and they will always be employed.
But when they are no longer useful…… some revelation will suddenly come to light that try’s taking them out of the picture.
No matter how high up they think they are,
From P Andrew, Harry, Boris, they are just puppets to be used.
RoS
We could have written Blackford’s feeble acquiescence to the US/UK narrative ourselves , so entirely predictable is it .
The very least the Scottish Gov should be doing is shutting the fuck up , it’s not as though we as a country have even the slightest ability to influence global events .
Though really we should be calling-out the nauseating hypocrisy of the US/UK dribbling on about * Sovereignty * when those two are historically the biggest abusers of other sovereign nations .Not one of those WM Jock/Jokes have referred to the fact Scotland’s sovereignty is denied every single day
Yet one more example of the utter hopelessness of this SNP/GOV .
I wonder besides Trudeau how many were drama teachers or were good at drama in school..
We saw David Cameron in 2014 roll up his sleeves and pretend tears at Scotland maybe leaving the rest of Britain.
Maybe our leaders are picked from these platforms.
Explains Boris as well.
Robert 2.26pm.
Aye Robert, and Whitehall’s Jock puppet leader, who has sold Scotland and her assets out since coming to power, urges Johnson to throw the book at Putin.
“NICOLA Sturgeon has called on Boris Johnson to go further after announcing the UK’s “first barrage” of sanctions against Russia as tensions in Ukraine grow.”
link to 12ft.io
“What amazes me personally is those that are play acting think they are one of the top actors and they will always be employed.£
James Che 2.15pm.
James I would say that those within the system don’t really exit it, they find employment elsewhere, in Scotland some die-hard unionists find employment once out of office in universities or they end up in Charlotte street, or consultants etc.
They are good old boys/girls as they say, and they can be relied on to uphold or push whatever narrative of the day is on offer.
In England its Tufton street, consultancies or lobbying.
RoS
The only surprising thing about that National headline is the absence of the verb ” slamming ” . Maybe by tomorrow Sturgeon the micro-wit will have ” slammed ” Russian aggression or some such mince and order will be restored to the * revolutionary * devolutionary universe that paper exists in .
Maybe those two crack diplomats Smithers n McDonut will be sent to the Ukraine/Russia border in another show of solidarity . Worked a treat the last time : maybe take a bigger Union Jack flag with them this time . That should terrify those damn Russkies
Robert.
That’s right the Whitehall mouthpiece and Russophobe McDonald even received one of the highest honours the Ukrainian Order of Merit after a visit to Ukraine, under the guise of promoting ties between Scotland and Ukraine.
McDonald had to go to London to receive his Order of Merit, so much for ties with Scotland. McDonald took a tour around the Donbas regions this was around four years after the US coup in the country.
Several other lickspittle SNP MPs visited Ukraine with him.
The point is once they get rid of small time snp, derogate Alba in the media or any other party gone, what do we get.
There is no other party in the running worthwhile.
A “ party”seems to be a very inappropriate word for those that lead a government and a country don’t you think.
Sounds like some are having a good time while others are suffering.
Scotsman going after Alex Salmond and Alba.
“Why the Russian invasion should be the end of Alex Salmond and Alba”.
No shocks there eh! Must be an election soon.
Putin should recognise the Independence of Scotland, the sovereignty of the Scottish people
– then we can watch the squirming insanity of the SNP defending the union; Ian Blackford bellows
THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND WILL NOT HAVE THEIR FREEDOM THRUST UPON THEM BY FOREIGN DICTATORS
and since Putin is on a roll – a United Ireland too. Maybe sing “dixie” and proclaim “the south shall rise again”. Then a big shout-out to all the Canada-Bros :
“truckers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your no claims bonuses … ”
slightly more seriously; this is all just history repeating – “the sea-power/leviathan must stop the integration of the land powers”; before WW1 the British Empire had to prevent a unified German europe, now the bastard offspring American neo-Empire must stop eurasian integration.
– if China-Russia-Germany get a hook-up, integrate their economies, it is over for America; no one is using the dollar anymore, no one needs to. Without this globally unbalanced dollar system, the US military goes unfunded. Empire over. A mined out America can hardly go back to being a “normal country” since it allowed itself to be stripped, for the greed of its elite. Is it going to go back to making cars and TVs? The individual rights and wrongs of things-ukrainian, are a detail to this wider theme. Ukraine is rightful Lithuanian clay anyway, historically. A Lithuanian told me that.
Getting involved in other peoples fights generally, and especially for unclear reasons, is pretty dumb; the warmongers should have their own children drafted first, if they are serious.
link to msn.com
Lmao. I think he meant that she stuck her finger up his arse not nose. Should have belted the cow.
Why is it all these cranks can never tell us the winners of all the Grand nationals, Football league winners, Super bowl winners etc so we can all make a few bob? Naw it’s always the doom and gloom og impending catastrophe.
@Republicofscotland – 22 February, 2022 at 10:25 am
It’s not every day you can read a post listing China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela and Nicaragua as setting good examples to be followed.
I get it that you detest the USA and WM. But does that make it impossible to maintain any sense of proportion?
Seriously, North Korea?
“Seriously, North Korea?”
What’s the problem John, is North Korea not allowed to recognise the new republics?
Confused @ 6.24
You got it down to a ” T ” ma man .
Chris Hedges ( in the link I posted above ) refers to the impending death of the almighty dollar as the dominant/dominating Capitalist coin-of-the-realm – or at least the very real threat of it if Russia and China align strategically .
But once again the narrative of America ( and pet poodle UK ) standing bold against evil oppressors in the battle to defend Democracy/Sovereignty ( HA ! ) is being rolled-out : and pretty much being consumed with the same uncritical gusto as ever by Joseph Public , served on a plate by the truth-seekers in MSM .
True to form and right on cue * future world leader pretend * Nicola Jacinda Hilary Sturgeon marches into lockstep with the US/UK fantasy action movie storyline .
I doubt her cameo appearance will merit even a mention in the end of movie credits . Good for the C.V though
Aw ffs Robert. Who’s gonnae pei ma giro Robert? I’ve buckie tae buy this week. lol
Robbo yr bucky’s past it’s sell-by pal . I could flog you some Absolut moonshine if ye wahnt 🙂
Coincidence that the loudest of the Russia bad (be afraid) voices all have existential domestic issues?
Senile Biden/his scary handler Jen.
Boris clinging on here.
Trudeau universally hated.
Nah!
Hugh J
Aye another one for the Coincidence Theorists to ponder
Did anyone else have difficulty with Craig’s PayPal?
Expecting my social credit to be cancelled for being a domestic terrrist forthwith.
🙁
@ Hugh Jarse at 9.36: someone else did say they had a problem and were advised to pay direct to Craig’s bank account – details are on his website. That is what I did.
No messing with Boris and his threatening sanctions!
The 3 London based Russians who haven’t donated to the Tory Party have had their assets frozen.
Russian Banks in London are also to have their assets frozen a week after Putin told them to shift their assets with a March into Ukraine pending.
Will Putin be able to sleep at night with such a severe backlash?
Yes, I think so too.
Ta Sarah
I’ll check my account in the morning, and make sure he gets a wee bit aid.
Testing! Testing! Testing!
Wouldn’t worry about a John Main, RoS, if you read my previous exchange with him, you will see that he is a glib and shameless liar.
There’s much to be said about Ukraine and efforts to antagonise and provoke a response from Russia, which they have achieved.
Assuming WWIII isn’t an option, I don’t know why they went down this road.
Arms sales, destabilising Europe for some nefarious reason, to distract from domestic issues, who knows…
I give up!
Tried to respond to your post three times ‘Dr Robert’ without success.
Mr Bonkers is wearing an Hawaiian shirt & driving a van full of penguins!
Robert Hughes says
True to form and right on cue * future world leader pretend * Nicola Jacinda Hilary Sturgeon marches into lockstep with the US/UK fantasy action movie storyline .
I doubt her cameo appearance will merit even a mention in the end of movie credits . Good for the C.V though
She’s so predictable!
I did spot a headline saying
“Nicola Sturgeon urges Scots to stand with Ukraine as it defends its ‘independence’ from Russia”
Yawn! V
I just ignored it in the same way as I do with everything else Sturgeon says.
**
I’ve included a link not for the content but for the photograph ‘cos I want to know
what the guy ? sitting behind her is wearing on his face? Looks like half a triple D cup Hawaiian bikini.
** No link included this time to see if that was the reason earlier posts weren’t uploading.
“Why the Russian invasion should be the end of Alex Salmond and Alba”.
Reply
Could I be any more boring?
Success!
Oh no! Are ’12’ ladder’ links banned?
I had a quick look at Craig Murray’s recent blog.
Result will be very interesting.
While there I spotted a post by ‘Mist’ remember him.
He got banned from Wings for some reason. I can’t remember what it was.
It might have been for fighting about Covid.
Testing
link to 12ft.io
“Nobody cares what you think about anything, you redundant old bag…”
Reply
I singlehandedly saved Wings and the Independence movement.
Mr Bonkers is having fun with his ‘Custard Creams’
There’s a school of thought that Thatcher provoked the Falklands War because when Argentina sounded belligerent, the “conventional” response was typically to send a few menacing warships into the area, and everybody would calm down. Thatcher’s response however was the reverse, and to scrap Endurance, the only UK presence in the South Atlantic. Thus, instead of telegraphing strong resolve and determination to defend UK territory, she instead telegraphed the UK’s intention to downgrade it’s presence, and the Argentinian’s interpreted this as a green light to go ahead with their invasion.
That much is fairly unequivocal, but speculation was rife whether Thatcher actually bungled the UK response, or made a calculated decision to all but provoke a war to save her flagging popularity at the polls.
When it comes to Russia and Ukraine, I truly wonder how history will judge NATO’s pledge not to expand Eastward being worthless, an American backed coup deposing Ukraine’s elected President to create a Cuban Missile type situation for Russia.
Then there’s the messages being telegraphed by Johnson; squirming like a worm on a hook, risking a return to conflict in Ireland by trying to wriggle out the UK’s commitment to the Good Friday Peace Treaty, then provocatively sailing UK Warships too close to Chinese sensitivities. Who is going to trust the UK Government’s word on anything?
He’s a nasty little shit Boris Johnson; your typical Eton prick for whom patriotic exceptionalism and warmongering butchery go hand in hand. He’s looking for a war to get his shitty incompetence in government expunged Churchill style.
Instead of wrapping themselves in the Union flag, the Scottish Government should be hammering home Johnson’s perfidious schoolboy character defects, his being generally unfit to rule, and accordingly, nailing Scotland’s colours firmly to the strict neutrality pole when it comes to Ukraine.
The West’s hand’s are dirty in this, and Putin knows it. I think he’ll call their bluff.
” I just ignored it in the same way as I do with everything else Sturgeon says. ”
Likewise Ruby . I only gazed upon the face of the medusa ( at lightning speed , stare into that abyss too long and it will stare back at you – shudder ) this time to confirm that she had trotted-out the lines we’d previously expected her to .
Lol , aye yr man behind her has went all tropical with his gub-wear . Maybe he was inspired by the brilliant sunlight he perceives emanating from Sturgeon’s rear end . Shudder x 2
I only gazed upon the face of the medusa ( at lightning speed
Lol , aye yr man behind her has went all tropical with his gub-wear . Maybe he was inspired by the brilliant sunlight he perceives emanating from Sturgeon’s rear end
Oh ‘Dr Robert’ you’re so imaginative & you have a braw way with words.
You inspire me.
I’m currently visualising some ‘photoshop art’ based on your words!
The Medusa head will be easy enough the brilliant sunshine emanating from Sturgeon’s rear end might be a bit trickier.
Maybe just a big fart of 100s of sunshine emojis exploding from her rear end might do the trick.
Excellent post Breeks.
It was during the ‘Falklands War’ when I seriously started to question what kind of country I was living in.
I was living in the South of England at the time and I was shocked by the amount of jingoism/racism & Union flags I witnessed.
Thatcher & her boy Blair can be thanked for my support of Scottish Independence.
I have never & would never support ‘devo-max’ because that involves still being tied to a warmongering nation with one of the highest military budgets in the world.
Were there a lot of UJs flying in Scotland during the Falklands?
I wonder if Sturgeon would like us to fly UJs to show our support for Ukraine.
It looks as if that is what she is doing or perhaps it’s all about a continuation of her vendetta against Alex Salmond.
Ruby
Hahaha , that would do it 🙂
Typically perceptive post Breeks .
” I was living in the South of England at the time and I was shocked by the amount of jingoism/racism & Union flags I witnessed. ”
I was too , London to be exact . I remember sitting on the upper deck of an actual * Clapham Omnibus * when some geezer declaimed his support for good ol’ Blighty against those * dirty Argies * , the entire upper deck exploded in agreement , I sat in stunned silence . The first time I’d ever experienced first hand uncritical jingoism . Not a pretty sight
Completely off topic. I’ve just finished archiving last of the posts from Wings on archive.is.
A good chunk of the site was already archived but there was a big gap from Sept 2016 to Mar 2021 where almost all of the pages were missing. That’s now fixed.
The site search on arhive.is, link to archive.fo only returns 2776 links and some of these are images. However all the pages are there – all 5911 of them. My guess is they don’t build complete indexes very often. (The site owner has pledged to make the entire archive publicly available at some point.)
As an alternative, the earliest snapshot on the Wayback Machine, link to web.archive.org, is from 29th June 2012 and that only contains pages back 9 days to the 20th.
I’m currently looking at creating a complete, verified and downloadable index as an easy-ish way to get all the content if Wings goes away for whatever reason.
So now there’s a more or less complete backup in two different locations, on two different continents. Though to be safe we probably should have an entire copy located somewhere on Antarctica, just in case things in Ukraine get out of hand.
Breeks,
If I recall correctly the arrival of Argentinian “scrap merchants” on South Georgia caught the UK government off guard. It wasn’t until there was a response from the media urging the government to do something that Thatcher realised the “opportunity” – though the whole thing could have been staged to get the country in the mood to have some blood spilled for her benefit.
I definitely remember a feature piece on Pebble Mill at One featuring the Falkland Islands and just how British they all were – even the penguins wanted to be British. That was before there was any mention of the Task Force being cobbled together.
What questions on Scotland did Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford ask at PMQ’s today, answer none, his two questions or statements more like was aimed at Russia. We didn’t send SNP MP’s to Westminster to pick a fight with another country, no we sent them to Westminster to do Scotland’s bidding, of course Blackford and Co at Westminster hasn’t done Scotland’s bidding for years.
Meanwhile the attack on Alex Salmond by the UK MSM has upped, Salmond a private citizen has been attacked by Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots in which see says in Bute House that she’s appalled at Salmond for having an RT show, with May’s council elections on the horizon, Sturgeon is along with her SNP MSPs and MPs attempting to smear Alex Salmond, one wonders just how many ex-Tory MPs or Labour or Lib/Dem MPs have appeared on RT over the years. Sturgeon has openly shown her loyalty to Whitehall.
[absolute silence]
Reply
The elite are after me…
Of course it would fit Sturgeon and this SNP government better if they concentrated on domestic issues instead of kowtowing to Whitehall on Russia.
I say that as figures have been released that shows a whopping 142,000 Scots are still waiting to be seen with regards to having cancer, none of them have been seen within the six weeks limit, none have had their MRI scan or colonoscopy or endoscopy.
Leading cancer charities are very worried about this failure by the the SNP government they say that there’s a huge increase in patients waiting over a year for a colonoscopy or endoscopy, but he ho, what does that matter to Sturgeon the Betrayer who is far to busy trying to make a name for herself in the international community by doing Westminster’s bidding.
Meanwhile the SNP Governments Work Place Levy goes live this year March I think, in which councils can charge their employees to park at work, no account had been taken into consideration for folk especially women who do shift work and will find it hard to find public transport or afford a taxi in late at night.
This comes on top of the SNP ran Glasgow City council urging the Scottish government to lobby Westminster to charge Scots more for petrol and diesel.
@Hatuey 2:25pm
Cease and desist?
Mr Bonkers is singing Napoleon XIV’s one hit wonder.
Hatuey says:
19 February, 2022 at 8:52 pm
And now I ignore you again for a few weeks.
Reply
I don’t believe you!
@Hatuey 2:25pm
“Absolute silence”. So you could be Alex Salmond, if you are I claim my 50 quid and I will donate to Craig Murray. I am just a standard frustrated Independence supporter.
Hi Ruby at 12:33 pm.
You typed,
“It looks as if that is what she is doing or perhaps it’s all about a continuation of her vendetta against Alex Salmond.”
From the link below:-
“When asked about Mr Salmond’s show being broadcast on the network, the First Minister said: “I’m appalled at Alex Salmond’s continued involvement with RT, I don’t think it’s any secret now that I don’t think he should ever have had a television show on RT, but it is even more unthinkable now that that should continue.””
link to archive.md
Republicofscotland
> Sturgeon has openly shown her loyalty to Whitehall.
Absolutely. She certainly won’t talk about all that Russian money flowing into the City of London and the Conservative Party. That would put Boris in a bad light and jeopardise the chances of getting his blessing in order to get a seat at the UN trough.
A trusty and faithful servant.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
From the link below:-
“When asked about Mr Salmond’s show being broadcast on the network, the First Minister said: “I’m appalled at Alex Salmond’s continued involvement with RT
She’s so predictable!
Can Herald links be easily archived in ‘archive.is’ again or have you found another clever trick.
“Boris Johnson told MPs that the Department of Media, Culture and Sport (DCMS) has contacted Ofcom to ask them to look at whether the station should be allowed to continue to operate in the UK.”
What are the implications of RT not being allowed to operate in the UK?
What control does ‘Ofcom’ have over what is broadcast on the internet?
Could they stop ‘Slainte Media’ from operating in the UK and selling their product to RT to be broadcast on the internet?
Is ‘BBC Radio Persia’ still operating.
I hope all these sturgeon supporters and sycophants are happy at the state of Scotland’s governance , where the SUPPOSED FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND and her minions are MORE interested in currying favour with war mongering english empire builders (empire ha,ha,ha) rather than the health implications of failed or missing cancer diagnosis of 10s of thousands of desperate families and their loved ones
It is MORE important to support the jingoism and war cries of pseudo armchair warriors who are only too eager to send ordinary working class Scottish children to a situation that could lead to severe life changing injury or even death , than it is to attend to the desperate misery , concern and needs of families for whose loved ones may not have a future if their illness is NOT detected or treated in time
As we have all witnessed the jingoism and triumphant flag waving only includes those who return unscathed , the rest of the poor wretches who return with limbs missing or damaged beyond repair , or the ones suffering physically or mentally PTSD have to hide in the shadows and BEG for any financial ,physical or mental health assistance
YES the great Brutish Army , Navy and Airforce welcomes the return of heroes , as long as you don’t expect them to support you in your time of need
Hi Ruby.
That page wasn’t behind a paywall. I archived it ‘just in case’.
Anyone know if Sturgeon or any of her cronies in the brit-SNP
have links to the insidious Klaus Schwab and WEF?
@Hatuey says:
“John Main is a glib and shameless liar”.
You are so, so right Hatuey, you have never, in a lifetime of perfect, exemplary rightness, been more right.
Haha Hatuey, did you see what I just did there?
Maybes ask somebody to explain it to you using wee words!
Republic of Scotland and Hatuey
Seriously, North Korea?
North Korea is one of your role models? NK can teach Scotland about anything? NK is an example of what Scotland should aspire to? Where NK leads, Scotland should follow?
Seriously?
” Anyone know if Sturgeon or any of her cronies in the brit-SNP
have links to the insidious Klaus Schwab and WEF? ”
Turns oot , Herr Swab is really Sturgeon’s da n WEF stands for Wee Eck’s Fucked : Justine Truedolt is her half-brother ( no sure which half ) through the Swabster’s * illicit affair * with an Inuit shapeshifter n the next meeting of world-devouring gazillionaire vegans has been relocated from Davos to Nik n Pete’s gaff in Hades
@ Stuart MacKay: good work to have archived Wings articles. Well done.
QUESTION: does anyone know how a Ministerial Statement works? The Rev says the GRA “reform” will be made this way instead of through legislation. Have to say that I am thoroughly frightened at the idea that a Minister can just announce new law without it going through parliament.
@twathater 5:38pm
Oncologists were saying at the start of the pandemic that the lockdown approach would lead to thousands of additional cancer deaths. I did an exercise started it on Gettr but finished it on here. Publicly available information and data with no primary research suggested a probable additional death range for Scotland of 25000-40000. Why such a large range?. Difficult to attribute mental health acquired conditions to future deaths. Needs proper research. Excess deaths will have a long tail.
NS was beyond the Pale, tonight’s utterances totally confirm that she is Westminster’s bitch !
Naturally your first minister is dismayed that the previous leader of the cabal is in effect supporting Putin in his dictatorial rule, disregarding human rights as he sows disharmony and rancour between people and seeks to sever areas from their country against-it seems likely-the wishes of the majority of their inhabitants. Oh, hang on a minute……
BBC and STV in full propaganda mode. No intellect, no analysis. No knowledge of recent history. No knowledge of International agreements. Put your tin hat on.
news just in : Salmond responds to Sturgeon jibes over RT
“Vladimir Putin never called me a RAP-ARTIST”
How low can she/her go?
It seems like there’s plenty of space under the snakes belly.
……
Right of reply from Auntie?
Aye, right.
…….
The choreography today was so apparent, so in yer face, so predictable.
@ Tannadice boy 7.49pm TBH apart from the stupidity of the current snp members still supporting this monster it is unbelievable that they cannot look at the health situation or financial situation of their family and friends and NOT conclude that this charlatan has done NOTHING , NADA , ZILCH to alleviate the situation or to REMEDY through indy the situation , that 25000-40000 fatalities which may have been lowered if we had REAL SCOTTISH POLITICIANS who concentrated on our people instead of the clowns who INFEST HR
These stupid people may not have the intelligence to realise that this charlatan and her handmaidens have presided over this shambles of SG but my anger multiplies and intensifies when the rest of us who CAN see that she is a betrayer have to suffer the results of their stupidity
Have Alex Salmond , RT and the Red Army invaded Ukraine yet ?
Will Nicola The Great be leading the resistance mounted on a trans-stallion ?
If Kiev falls will the eponymous chicken dish be in short supply ?
Check in later for answers to these pressing questions
Brian Doonthetoon says:
23 February, 2022 at 5:58 pm
Hi Ruby.
That page wasn’t behind a paywall. I archived it ‘just in case’.
Interesting that it wasn’t behind a paywall. Was that to maximise the number of people reading that particular article.
The following was posted on Twitter by Lady Lyon:
‘I’m appalled she gave Murray Foote a job, I’m appalled she gave the unionist media a bung, I’m appalled Clegg got a leak under her watch and claims she doesn’t know who leaked it, there’s a lot more to be appalled about her connections with the media’
Me too Lady Lyon.
Easy Predictions
1. Boris invokes war regulations, dismisses party time guilt, takes 5 more years of power, his moment arrived.
2. Nicola delays referendum – again, accommodates colonial power’s agenda, clamps down on dissent.
3. House of Commons gloats, passes Bill ‘No Referenda’ for 25 years.
@ Robert Hughes 8.10am
Re. Potential chicken meal availability issues:
Well noo we’re living in NuScotland and dragged out the EU against oor will…
So with the loss of those pesky EU Protected Geographic Indications on oor scran, you can simply get your Arbroath Smokie to Self ID as a Chicken Kiev and your concerns are alleviated. 😉
Is Ian Smart the person who was a ‘right Ellis’ during the 2014 Indy Ref?
Forgetting that for the moment check his blog
link to ianssmart.blogspot.com
Article entitled ‘A dead duck’ is very interesting.
The ‘dead duck’ he is referring to is the
‘Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill’
He ends the article by saying:
But don’t just take my word for that. The Scottish Government is on the record saying the Bill would be introduced before the end of February, Today they are denying having ever said that.
How many ‘dead ducks’ will that be now?
The football thingy ‘dead duck’
The child guardian ‘dead duck’
The Schools Sex survey – half dead duck.
Indy Ref2 ‘dead duck’?
Free prescription ‘dead duck’?
Will ‘Baby boxes’ be the only thing to survive?
In the mean time Sturgeon is Quack, Quack, Quacking all over her media about Alex Salmond.
Has Republic of Scotland or any of the other Russian assets been on yet cheering the policing action in the Ukraine?
Asking for a few million Ukrainian friends wondering why such folk insist self determination applies to Scots but not to Ukrainians.
“North Korea is one of your role models?”
John Main.
Where did I say the above, pay attention Mr Main, I said NK has the right recognise new states that’s all, unlike Scotland that has no say on the international stage.
What about milk from Morrisons?
Are the carbon neutral milk containers open so that customers can do the ‘sniff test’
This doesn’t seem very hygienic.
What happens if your nose is blocked up and you can’t smell a thing?
Are you expected to wear your mask when you do the ‘sniff test’
There are a lot of good things in Lidl but I now avoid their fresh veg because they don’t have any best before/sell by dates on them.
Is this ditching of ‘best before/sell by dates’ all part of what we should expect from Brexit?
Let’s not lose any sleep over a bunch of Nazis.
“increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.
These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.”
link to thenation.com
“Another interesting tweet
#ForzaAlba
She lied at the enquiry she said she didn’t know any of the alleged victims of Alex Salmond , the truth is she knew them all and many were colleagues. She tried to fit him up to stay in power , all the Scots journalists know it as well.”
Is all the ‘contempt of court’ stuff more to protect Sturgeon than it is to protect the ‘Alphabetties’?
As a preliminary hearing is about to get under way on the death of Sheku Bayou who “Died” in 2015 whilst resisting arrest by Police Scotland, police officer involved in the “arrest” have said they will not answer any questions on the “Arrest” that might incriminate them.
That in itself speaks volumes to me.
Meanwhile as Scots struggle to heat or eat, and over 14,000 are have waited past the six weeks time limit for cancer treatment, the Scottish Government are listening to evidence at a committee to pardon witches from hundreds of years ago.
Its good to see Sturgeon has got her priorities right.
From the same article;
“Torchlight marches in honor of OUN/UPA leaders like Roman Shukhevych (a commander in a Third Reich auxiliary battalion) are a regular feature of the new Ukraine. The recuperation even extends to SS Galichina, a Ukrainian division of the Waffen-SS; the director of the Institute of National Memory proclaimed that the SS fighters were “war victims.” “
” Asking for a few million Ukrainian friends wondering why such folk ”
Any of those million friends ( Christ ! yr Facebook friends list must be MASSIVE ) the nice people Hatuey refers to ?
@Hatuey
And your point is what…? Because there are right wing nutters in the Ukraine we should simply leave them to the tender mercies of Putin’s revived Russian Empire?
I always wondered how folk in the 1930’s fell for the appeasers line. I suppose we’re finding out now. I doubt history will be any kinder to folk advocating acceptance of Putin’s take over of the Ukraine, or the fringe nutters cheering him on, than it has been to Chamberlain, Halifax and their ilk.
I’m still waiting for those fellow Scots nationalists who advocate abandoning the Ukrainians to tell me why self determination applies to us, but not to them?
@Robert Hughes
OK mister literal: I see rhetorical devices are probably lost on some….stun me wi’ another.
So if any country has some right wing nutters, are we allowed to just abandon them to the tender mercies of Putin? What about the millions of ordinary Ukrainians who just want the same as other folk who used to live under Soviet rule like the Poles and Baltic states have achieved? Are they supposed to just surrender their self determination and any hope of future democracy because there are some unpleasant neo-nazi’s in the Ukraine?
Get a grip man!
I have not read or watched a single thing about Russia/Ukraine.
I did watch & listen to the stories about Saddam Hussein & his weapons of mass destruction.
Fool me once and all that jazz.
I’m patiently waiting for Craig’s article which should be interesting.
“Craig Murray –
@CraigMurrayOrg
·
7h
I have finished writing my account of today’s pretty harrowing court proceedings.
But am going to sleep on it and check in the morning it gives the court no further excuse to put me in prison. When you read it you will understand why.”
link to rt.com
This link is for Alex Cole Hamilton.
If I was a gambling man, I’d be placing bets Sturgeon is cynically jumping on the anti-Russian bandwagon because she needs a new excuse to put off IndyRef2 because of
Brexit, General Election, COVID-19the Russian’s are coming.What do her brainless lemmings do? That’s right, attack Alex Salmond. You have to laugh or else you’d cry.
Hopefully the Russians will destroy the ukie nazis and nato thugs once and for all.
Andy Ellis: “Because there are right wing nutters in the Ukraine we should simply leave them to the tender mercies of Putin’s revived Russian Empire?”
It goes well beyond a few right wing nutters, if you read the article.
Your question makes no sense to me, btw. Ukraine had independence. Scotland doesn’t have independence. I don’t see the comparison.
If we ever get independence, I will advocate against trying to provoke England. I will advocate against joining a military alliance against England. I will advocate against setting up political parties and giving influence to other groups that glorify the death of English people at the hands of nazis.
Decisions have consequences in this world. And when half of your population sees itself as Russian, it makes no sense to stoke anti-Russian sentiment, legalise anti-Russian nationalism, and glorify the deaths of Russians at the hands of Nazis, especially when Russia is next door, watching all this, and quite rightly feeling threatened by your overtures to NATO and western arms suppliers.
Maybe Ukrainians will learn from all this.
Andy Ellis
It’s as surprising as Friday following Thursday that you would immediately side with the , equally predictable , * it’s all Russia’s fault * narrative . * Spiritually * you are New Labour through and through , though with exception of the Gender shit you’d probably find a berth in the good ship New SNP .
The one fundamental cause of this new * crisis * ( eliding seamlessly from the Covid * crisis * , handy that eh ? ) is NATO reneging on it’s pledge not to expand any further eastwards .
You can waffle all you like about the sovereignty of the Ukraine but if you are naive enough to think this is what all this is REALLY about you might as well tell us you’ve changed your mind and now believe Sturgeon is the natural heir of Robert The Bruce
“I always wondered how folk in the 1930’s fell for the appeasers line”
You always get a laugh when people use the old appeasement argument… I believe even Ronald Reagan invoked this appeasement argument when he sent his army into Grenada to beat up a bunch of Cuban bricklayers.
Anyone ever read a Kenneth Waltz? I’m guessing you might have, Andy. He’s one of my favourite authors on international relations. Go read over what he said about the socialisation of states and the limits that being sociable puts on state behaviour. We should send a few copies to Ukraine.
@Hatuey 10.49 am
The comparison is that if we stand by and essentially allow Ukrainian independence to be snuffed out (whatever our qualms about neo-nazis in Ukraine) then what hope is there for Scottish independence in the long term? If Ukraine can be first shorn of parts of its territory, then simply invaded, the same can happen to us. Perhaps the Borders will be retained by the UK on the grounds it might vote against independence, or Faslane can be our Crimea/Sevastopol?
Your independence seems a rather insipid wee creature. Doubtless if Putin succeeds in Ukraine then Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan will be next. Putin’s latest rantings suggest that anywhere that has ever been part of the Russian Empire historically is fair game. Doubtless the Baltic states and Poland will be kinda glad right now they’re part of NATO.
I still don’t really understand why you think the activities of neo-nazis in the Ukraine renders the totality of the Ukrainian people as unworthy of support, or basically means that they “had it coming”. Russia feeling threatened isn’t a “real” thing.
Independent countries get to decide whether they become members of the EU or NATO, they don’t have to ask permission from Moscow or anyone else. Would you really accept an independent Scotland in future being told what it can and can’t do in the same way Putin is trying with the Ukraine?
Surrealism of words.
From MSM and leaders as they ramp up agenda’s
Britain talking war against putin, defending Ukraine, put the armoured tanks, ships and drones in.
And in the same breath.
they will have to consider moving out of the Great British Parliament. Because the forgot to pay for it up keep over hundreds of years.
@Robert Hughes 10.56 am
Nope, it simply never happened. Whether you’re another Russian asset, or just a willing shill for Russian interests is immaterial. You don’t get to re-write history any more than Putin does though:
link to euvsdisinfo.eu
“I still don’t really understand why you think the activities of neo-nazis in the Ukraine renders the totality of the Ukrainian people as unworthy of support, or basically means that they “had it coming”. Russia feeling threatened isn’t a “real” thing.”
But it’s much more than that. It’s basically official government policy to hate Russia and it’s cloaked in nazi glorification— how many millions did the Russians lose to the Nazis?
And it doesn’t stop there. Ukraine is threatening to join NATO (an organisation ostensibly set up to confront Russia) and has been arming itself to the teeth.
All of this on Russia’s border… what the fuck did they expect?
If the Ukrainians have any grounds for appeal, they are based on the argument that their country was basically hijacked through a CIA coup, which undoubtedly has some truth to it.
But the most ridiculous thing about your argument is the fact that you are saying it. We, the west, and in particular people like you, basically destroyed any semblance of international law and order when we attacked Iraq , Libya, Syria, and a pile of other countries.
Nobody outside of your Anglo-Saxon propaganda bubble can keep a straight face when people like you talk about international law, Andy. Don’t shoot the messenger, it’s not my fault.
And this appeasement argument is the funniest part of all. It’s tempting to say you are the boy who cried wolf but it’s way beyond that. You’re the boy who cried wolf and the boy who set fire to the whole village, the boy who killed millions of innocent people, and the boy who has done more to fuck this world up than anyone else ever in the history of abject bastards.
Nobody is buying any of it. And nobody is going to go to kill and die for Ukraine. Maybe their nazi militia which, as it happens, had been incorporated into their national civil defence force can save them…
Surrealism of words.
Big boys talk about protecting Ukraine borders, comes from Britain and America.
While America’s borders are wide open causing havoc, and Britain cannot close or protect its border channel between England and France.
‘The Bonkers Twins’ are extra boring today.
One of the ‘Bonkers Twins’ who claims never to read newspapers posts a link to a newspaper article about Neo-Nazis the other ‘Bonkers Twin’ who does read newspapers believes absolutely everything he reads in newspapers and presents newspaper articles as proof-positive that something did or did not happen.
Totally Bonkers!
@Hatuey 11.29 am
The act that some people – even a significant number – agree with your worldview doesn’t make it either the most convincing explanation of what is actually happening though Hatuey, still less a *fact*. You assert that “nobody is buying it”, but where’s your evidence?
Like some other moon howlers in here you’re adept at claiming to speak for the majority, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that your worldview as expressed in your take on these events, benefits from any significant level of support amongst the general public, although it may chime with some on the fringes of the independence movement. Surely you can see that appealing to such a minuscule portion of the electorate is an electoral cul-de-sac?
I’m not sure I’m ready to accept responsibility for the world burning. It just comes across as a bit hysterical on your part. Generally you do better, but perhaps this is a trigger for you for some reason. The general public here and in all NATO countries will doubtless make their majority views known in coming weeks as events develop and polls are done. That will of course include Scottish voters and those who support independence.
I have my doubts there will be a lot of “granularity” in such polling, or what the Scottish subsamples will be, but I’d wager it won’t support your views, any more than it supports other “unorthodox” belief systems we’ve debated in the past, whether anti-vaxxer, TRA extremism, ethnic nationalism etc.
Should there be a poll re Russia/Ukraine I will most definitely be a ‘don’t know’ and that is because I have no idea if the info I am being given is propaganda or not propaganda.
My gut feeling is that it is propaganda.
The FM tells us to support Ukraine but then I suspect she is more interested in her vendetta against Alex Salmond than she is in the people of Ukraine.
‘The Bonkers Twins’ on the other hand seems to be pretty sure that the info they have is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Sturgeon and the SNP drones backing the azov batallion neo nazis and its proxies is a terrible look for Scotland.
That explains the misunderstanding, Andy… I’m not regimentally guided in terms of what I say by an assessment of what impact it might have on support for independence.
Actually, thanks to Sturgeon and her gang (who you seem to have more in common with than you like to admit), my hopes of independence are firmly in the background.
Surrealism of words.
With war talk looming from the mouth of the Great empire.
We pass legislation to not allow dog walkers to have long leads near cycle paths.
Not even Europe really, is it… more Asia, I’d say.
At most you could say it’s somewhere between Europe and Asia.
Geography isn’t my strong card, I suppose.
“We will take down seven eastern countries,
And then Russia and China,”
Quote is from interview with Henry Kissinger.
Nothing like long term planning mr Kissinger.
Putin is the west’s ie America’s nemisis, he is a mirror of the west’s predatory behaviour in the world over decades and the nodding dog act of most European leaders.
Sturgeon is well practised at opportunistic nodding.
Big powers, keep well away.
We pass legislation to not allow dog walkers to have long leads near cycle paths.
Are they going to employ thousands of new police?
What about the dogs that are not on a lead? Will playing catch be banned?
What about roads where there is no cycle paths?
All this does indeed sound completely surreal! Patrick Harvie’s idea?
Maybe instead of making rules for dogs they should make rules for cyclists
ie if you can’t peddle at 20mph you should not be on the road causing chaos and also if there is a cycle path they should use it. I’m thinking of Holyrood Park where cyclist hold up traffic by struggling up the hill at 1 mph and don’t use the cycle path.
“dandydons1903 says:
24 February, 2022 at 12:01 pm
Sturgeon and the SNP drones backing the azov batallion neo nazis and its proxies is a terrible look for Scotland.”
Better to avoid the keyboard and let folk only suspect that you’re an idiot, than to let your drivel flow freely and have those suspicions confirmed.
@Robert Knight 12.37 pm
Hear hear. Good to see that common sense hasn’t entirely left the WoS building.
@Hatuey 12.08 pm
Aw mate…..if we’re going to start a list of the things that aren’t your strong suit we’re going to be here a while….! 🙂
Ruby.
As far as I believe this dog lead cycle/ dog issue is in England according to the newspapers.
We have to wait for it to come to a “cinema near us soon” I presume.
It’s the bonkers way of preparing for war with Russia from old Blighty.
Along with let’s not have a functioning British Parliament during our war with Russia, as they forgot to spend any money on repairing their HQ.
And we couldn’t go to war with Russia until the covid restrictions were lifted, as travel was not allowed.
It’s a surreal world.
link to bbc.co.uk
Oh, those precious western values…why we need to nuke the Ruskies.
Heil Zucker!
Old Blighty speech,
“We can not attempt war or bombing people to death” until we have insured they have all been vaccinated and are safe from dying”.
Ehhh.
I’m bored with the war already…
More of those «western values» we must fight to preserve.
link to aljazeera.com
Hypocrisy is fast becoming one of them.
“Sturgeon and the SNP drones backing the azov batallion neo nazis and its proxies is a terrible look for Scotland.”
Dandydon1903.
Yes it is, what do you expect from Sturgeon, the world’s her stage and her ego is so big that she needs constant patting on the head from the international community and Westminster that she’s a beacon of light.
There are countless Nazi monuments in Ukraine, and more have begun to be erected since the Great Satan’s (USA) coup in Ukraine in 2014.
From 2015…in depth analysis of what has led to where we are now.
Agree or disagree with the analysis, it’s still a legitimate overview which is sadly missing from msm’s current shitshow, which as per is short on fact and substance and rife with fiction and bogey man rhetoric.
Why Ukraine is the West’s fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
link to youtube.com
K1.
It was a long term plan mention by Henry Kissinger in a interview.
@Ruby
Not sure if it helps as far as choosing which side might be the most kind, compassionate and, presumably, therefore the most worthy of support (given the likely temptation to use archive footage during a pandemic) but from news reports in France I noticed that citizens being evacuated from East Ukraine were wearing covid masks whilst those lining up at cash machines in Kiev were not.
Republicofscotland says:
24 February, 2022 at 1:25 pm
“Sturgeon and the SNP drones backing the azov batallion neo nazis and its proxies is a terrible look for Scotland.”
Dandydon1903.
Yes it is, what do you expect from Sturgeon, the world’s her stage and her ego is so big that she needs constant patting on the head from the international community and Westminster that she’s a beacon of light.
There are countless Nazi monuments in Ukraine, and more have begun to be erected since the Great Satan’s (USA) coup in Ukraine in 2014.
Evidence? yeah I know it’s boring but all the same..
Meanwhile Putin threatens to NUKE anyone who interferes with his master plan. What was that you said about NAZI’s again??
wee monkey.
Knock yirself oot.
link to forward.com
Then ponder on the sheer hypocrisy of this.
So remind me what did Nato do when the US invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan, was there a widespread outcry in the Western media calling for sanctions on the USA, (as they have with Russia) did the West flood Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and cash, (as they have in Ukraine) did the West sent personnel to train the troops of these countries when they first invaded, (as they did in Ukraine) and what action did Nato take against the US when it murdered countless Iraqi and Afghan civilians including women and children?
We are dealing here with a gun for hire gang going by the name of Nato, and headed up by the chief villan the USA.
“A LAST ditch effort to stop Scots from being able to self-identify their gender on this year’s census, regardless of their legal status, has failed.”
“Campaign group Fair Play for Women lost its appeal against a decision made by Lord Sandison, who ruled transgender people can give a different answer from the sex on their birth certificate without the need for a gender recognition certificate (GRC).”
So the years late census (Sturgeons idea) will cost much more for the taxpayer to pay and will return unreliable data. What a sorry state Scotland’s in under Sturgeon’s woeful tenure.
link to 12ft.io
A Government minister spoke to the Scottish law lords yesterday, immediately before the hearing of Craig Murray’s appeal, delaying the start by an hour.
Coincidence?
I just found out one my favourite Russian Red Army songs, Kalinka, is about “a raspberry in the garden…”
Wtf?
I used to sing that when I attacked someone at Risk… raspberries in the garden?
Jesus.
stuart mctavish says:
24 February, 2022 at 1:40 pm
@Ruby
Not sure if it helps as far as choosing which side might be the most kind,
Thanks for your suggestion Stuart.
Recent polls have given the option of ‘don’t know’ & ‘no opinion’ I have decided to tick both.
I ain’t spending hours reading about Russian/Ukraine only to be told months down the line when they have ‘Chilcot Enquiry No2’ that what I read was a load of rubbish.
My suggestion to you Stuart is to join me and become a ‘don’t know’
The US believed it had the right, under the foundation protocols of the UN, to invade Iraq as the Saddam Hussein régime had WMDs (which it did not) and was a threat to America.
The might is right principle operated in that case Russia taking due note for future reference. At least Russia isnt thousands of kilometres from the supposed «threat».
The English saying about sauce for the goose etc applies.
My city’s (Glasgow) council wants to cut ties with Rostov on Don which it was twinned with in the 1980’s to stand in solidarity with Ukraine.
So in effect the city council wants to cut ties with a country that saved us from the Nazis, to stand shoulder to shoulder with a country that embraces Nazism.
Lets not forget that along with the USA, Ukraine also didn’t vote against the promotion of Nazism at a recent UN meeting where a resolution was passed not to promote Nazism.
@Putin’s Poodle 5.05pm
As opposed to those nice people in the Donetsk People’s Republic you mean…they appear to have issues of their own with links to the far right, neo-nazis and War Crimes as well as crimes against the Romani minority and LGBT people, not to mention of course discriminating against Ukrainians in the areas they control.
Then of course there are the links between the far right Russian National Unity group and the Donetsk separatist leadership.
Sauce for the goose eh…? 🙂
re. Banana Scotland
Sturgeon’s Neo-Nazi allies (‘Nationalist Hate Group’) attack #LGBT:
link to buzzfeednews.com
Biden’s Bum Boy @5.52pm.
I didn’t say that both republics were innocent utopia’s even though your allegations are not backed up, anyway the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi’s have been attacking the two republics for eight years now.
Putin had been urging Zelensky to get around a table with the two republics leaders and thrash out a deal (Minsk Agreements) but Zelensky chose not to on the advice of Biden, and look where it has got him.
Its only right that Putin recognised the republics one it has saved lives in the republics and two recent event have driven back the Neo-nazi Ukrainian forces.
The US/Nato wants to put nukes in Ukraine which is an aggressive move the Ukrainian president was okay with that, Russia has a right to defend its borders from Nato expansionism which make Ukraine a legitimate target in my book.
Hatuey and Republic leading the charge (from behind their keyboards).
Time for the Ukrainian scum to be eliminated. Dying is too good for anybody who stands up to Mother Russia.
No room in their world for countries, nations or peoples who desire to be free and independent and maybes just left alone to be not blown to bits.
Unless their citizens can pass an ideological purity test first. And the Ukrainians can’t, so to hell with them.
It’s not possible to credit this sort of shit from so-called Scottish patriots but it certainly explains why NS and the SNP got together one lunchtime and turfed the whole bunch of fuckwits out of the party.
Ye shall know them by their words ^
@Putins Poodle 6.42pm
You asserting things with no evidence again…there’a a shocker! What’s the evidence US/NATO wants nukes in the Ukraine? Doubtless the Ukrainians will be regretting their decision to give up their own nukes right about now. I mean, if it’s the right decision for your North Korean friends to have nukes RoS, it should be OK for others too huh?
No country has a right to dictate to another whether it does or does not join an association like NATO or the EU, still less a deeply regressive imperialistic power with Russia’s history of repression, mass murder and ethnic cleansing. Saying Ukraine is a legitimate target when Ukrainian civilians are being killed is deeply repugnant, but hardly surprising from someone as morally vacuous as you so obviously are.
Interesting that you make assertions – again no evidence or proof, just denial – that there’s no back up for far right links in the pretendy republics, but the evidence is just as concrete as that for the neo-nazis on the other side. It’s almost as if you had an axe to grind.
With regard to the ‘gender question’ on the forthcoming Scottish census, is there a box to tick for those who are so confused about the whole thing that they simply ‘Don’t Know’?
If not, why not?
Why is the Scottish Government discriminating against the Don’t Knows?
@John Main 7.20 pm
Don’t be deceived: the paid up or fellow travelling Russian assets who pollute this place are vanishingly unrepresentative of general Scottish nationalist opinion. I’m happy to see that Alba has quickly condemned the invasion, and rejected the pretendy republics purported independence. I also hear that Alex Salmond has suspended his RT show: he should cancel it forthwith in my view.
Most ordinary Scots – whether pro or anti independence – will see the Russian invasion for what it is and be united in condemnation and horror. The few fringe neo-communist shills and probably paid assets in here shouldn’t be taken as representative of anything more than the proof that you’ll find a leavening of nutters in any broad movement. Twas ever thus: the same kind of folk defended the Soviet suppression in Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Poland in the 1980’s.
Same^
“No country has a right to dictate to another whether it does or does not ”
That’s rich coming from you how many countries has the US regime changed, invaded, or sabotaged to further its own agenda, here’s but a few.
link to pbs.twimg.com
Also lets not forget the Chagossian people of which Westminster threatened, menaced killed their pets and livestock then forcibly removed them from their island homes to allow the Great Satan (USA) to move in, you’re f*ckin hypocrite Ellis, I know it and you know it, now you are defending the neo-Nazis in Ukraine that’s been attacking and killing Russian speaking Ukrainians for eight years.
It never ceases to amaze me that (not you, you don’t support an indy Scotland) folk who support Scottish independence don’t believe a word that the MSM says about Scotland not being capable of being independent, but when it comes to international news the same people suddenly believe the same MSM that’s lied to them all their lives.
I wonder who put the idea into this stand up comedians mind, why do you think Putin attacked today.
link to dailywire.com
Fittingly named^
@Putin’s Parrot 8.15 pm
Whataboutery isn’t going to save what passes for your argument tovarich. I’ve been a consistent critic of US and Western policy in many areas across the past few decades, including the plight of the Chagossians when few people had even heard of the issue.
Unlike you I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time. You appear distressingly unable to do so: perhaps that what the FSB prefer these days? I wonder if they pay assets in Roubles or hard currency? Won’t be long til Russia is back to being Upper Volta with nukes at this rate. A friendless pariah….you should feel right at home.
“It’s not possible to credit this sort of shit from so-called Scottish patriots but it certainly explains why NS and the SNP got together one lunchtime and turfed the whole bunch of fuckwits out of the party.”
John Main.
You’re so far behind the curve that you don’t even realise that Sturgeon forced out from the party those that want independence and those that want a fair open and progressive party, the current SNP under Sturgeon is just a hollowed out shell of yes men and women.
Andy Ellis
3rd September 1939. 11th September 2001. 24th February 2022.
Three days on which the world changed. The comfortable, familiar, and relatively predictable routine was broken, never to be put back in quite the same way again.
Lots of sad sickos on here are salivating about the good, hard ass-kicking that they foresee (and fervently hope) is coming the way of the Greater and Lesser Satans. Just look at the quasi-religious language they favour. To them, a few million people dead or displaced here or there is, as Stalin observed, merely a statistic.
Well, I have a prediction to make. For anybody reading here of middle age or older, the dream of Scottish Independence in our lifetime died today. Not because NS is a tractor, not because Scotland is half-full of Yoons, but because in the coming years, we will all have far more pressing concerns.
Game over. Time to re-engage with reality.
@John Main 9.25 am
I agree this will come to be seen as an important day. I also foresee that those you rightly castigate will come to be seen as every bit as deluded as the adherents of appeasement in the 1930’s. The reason the comparison triggers so many of the Russian shills in here is that it is so apposite.
I disagree that it puts paid to the prospect of independence: we dealt it a blow ourselves with you know…not voting for it, GRA and trusting the devolutionists in the SNP, but I don’t think the Ukrainian crisis necessarily delays it longer than it would have been delayed anyway….or at least not by that much. In fact for all we know the dislocations due to the crisis might even increase the chances of independence as decrease them.
I know your position is that indy was never likely to work etc. but I think you’re letting wish fulfilment get the better of common sense.
Andy Ellis
Thanks for your response. We will see. My view is that the undecided will look at the popular Indy meme that a uniquely special Scotland will be the friendliest wee country in the world, and thus completely demilitarised, whilst simultaneously being a rich, fat prize like Norway, and run screaming, elbowing aside the homeless Ukrainian refugees as they go, to put their crosses against No.
I wonder if all of these people who claim Russian aggression is justified because of the threats from NATO and the EU on Russia’s borders have ever looked at a map of Eastern Europe.
Once Ukraine is annexed, Russia really will have NATO and the EU on its borders. I guess that having set the precedent that these threats must be neutralised by force, the next steps for Russia will be obvious.
Time to dust off the Domino Theory.
@John Main 10.04 pm
The danger of a successful Russian take over of the Ukraine is the precedent it sets: Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan could well be next, as could the former central Asian SSR’s from the Soviet era.
If I were Finnish or Swedish I’d definitely be thinking about reconsidering the decision not to join NATO tho’. I doubt even Putin is reckless enough to try and invade a NATO member.
We should however be making Russian access to the Kaliningrad exclave between Poland and Lithuania very, very difficult. I doubt the Russians can make it their West Berlin. They don’t have the wherewithal to try and supply it exclusively by sea if they can’t fly in.
God, I’m so bored with armchair generals trying to big this up. God help us if we ever face a real threat in Europe. In Russia we are dealing with a country that has a smaller GDP than South Korea.
In a year they’ll negotiate away the sanctions, without the fanfare and amateur dramatics that accompanied their introduction, Ukraine and NATO will understand and respect Russia’s concerns, and half of you still won’t be able to find Kiev on a map.
From the Russian perspective, it would have been appeasement to do nothing as the neo-nazis on Russia’s western border did everything they could to provoke a reaction.
Over 20 million Soviet citizens, most of which were Russian, died as a consequence of nazi aggression during WWII. If you are going to draw on the lessons of the 1930s, draw on that.
We should remind ourselves that one of the main reasons that Hitler was tacitly supported and appeased was down to his expressed racial hatred of Russians and the expectation that he’d attack them. And he did.
So, enjoy making your principled speeches and pulling pious faces. We’ve been in short supply of that sort of thing over the last 30 years, as the US and its attack dogs went on the rampage; tearing up page after page of international law in the process.
They killed the UN Hatuey!
Resolution schmeselution.
GOOD NEWS from Ukraine: Neale Hanvey tweets reports that a Russian reconnaissance unit has surrendered to Ukrainian forces because they didn’t know they had been sent to kill – they thought they were just getting information.
Indeed, Hugh. The UN’s death was a predictable death, by a thousand cuts.
The only limits on players now are those determined by power. That’s down to us, not Russia.
Why did we break our promise on NATO expansion to the east?
For the first time in many years, we are seeing what happens when the west finds itself facing a country that is able to hit back rather than the usual third world basket case.
Anyone that’s uncomfortable with this new world order of brute force might have said something when we were bombing places like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, etc., etc., etc.
Incidentally, they invoked Munich and appeasement when they attacked all those countries too. I’m working from memory, but if anyone wants a wager on that I’ll find the proof.
” If I were Finnish or Swedish I’d definitely be thinking about reconsidering the decision not to join NATO tho’. I doubt even Putin is reckless enough to try and invade a NATO member.
We should however be making Russian access to the Kaliningrad exclave between Poland and Lithuania very, very difficult. I doubt the Russians can make it their West Berlin. They don’t have the wherewithal to try and supply it exclusively by sea if they can’t fly in. ”
You ” doubt Putin is wreckless enough …..” , but you thought you would make this ridiculous statement anyway . Those incautious Finns and Swedes eh ? Refusing the strong embrace of the USA , oops , I mean NATO . Effectively no more than a rubber stamp operation for whatever the fuck action American deems necessary to protect it’s own interests
” We should however be making Russian access blah blah …. ”
” We ” , who is this ” we ” , will you be there Andy , will your son/s – if you have any – . Why don’t you go and fight for Ukraine , on you go , show us what you’re made of armchair warrior .
Once again we see the same abject abandonment of independent critical thought we’ve seen for the last two years , one Master Narrative stamping on anything that might contradict it .
Questioning Covid * measures * = * Anti-Vaxx conspiracy theorising *
Apply a degree of imagination to how it might feel and appear from a Russian perspective to have an avowed aggressor draw ever – closer to your borders = Putin lover/apologist .
Fuckn pathetic .
The only politician I’ve heard so far – not wrapping themselves in a Ukraine flag and posturing about how * tough * they’re going to be – this * toughness * will have zero impact on them and their comfy lifestyles , of course – using the one word that should be the first one uttered by anyone interested in preventing this escalating out of control – the word * Peace * – is Alex Salmond . No surprise there , or that his fckn useless Me Me Me successor Sturgeon has leapt onboard the US/UK hypocrisy express .
Hatuey . Excellent comments . Well said .
I’m out . The thought of having to witness Andy Ellis’s ongoing audition for his longed-for selection as a future ALBA candidate is just too tedious to countenance .
See y’all when the smoke ( and mirrors ) clear
Robert Hughes says:
I’m out . The thought of having to witness Andy Ellis’s ongoing audition for his longed-for selection as a future ALBA candidate is just too tedious to countenance .
Having him as a ALBA candidate would be the worst thing that could ever happen to Alba. It’s already bad enough having him posting here advertising the fact that he’s a founder member of Alba.
The best thing Alba could do would be to kick him out!
@Ruby 7.58 am
I’m sure if I was doing anything that merited being thrown out they’d be taking some action Ruby. Unlike most of the low lives in here attacking me and the vast majority who share my views, I’m not a snivelling anonymous online coward, so it’s not exactly hard for them. As it is, my views are echoed in the Alba party statement.
I’ve no desire to stand for office, but there would be nothing to stop me doing so if I wanted. Unlike the basket of deplorables in here I’m not some fringe nutter who would scare the beejeezus out of any ordinary voter by referring to the USA as the Great Satan or saying the Ukrainians had it coming, or calling people cunts every other post.
With luck this crisis will flush out more of Putin’s shills in the party so they can be exposed for ridicule they so richly deserve.
Anyone else shouting at Blackford to mark his sincere empathy with the Ukrainians as he knows what it’s like being a sovereign state being completely controlled by a neighbouring
aggressive and corrupt nation without morals?
@Robert Hughes 7.58 am
1) “I’m out . The thought of having to witness Andy Ellis’s ongoing audition for his longed-for selection as a future ALBA candidate is just too tedious to countenance.”
Good! It saves us all the chore of wading through your sophomoric drivel: one fewer Putin apologist to whack a mole. Retiring from the field butt hurt that you have no effective argument, doubtless just more dezinformatsiya from your handlers about how to paint this as a glorious liberation of the Ukrainian people from the arms of the Great Satan.
2) “” We ” , who is this ” we ” , will you be there Andy , will your son/s – if you have any – . Why don’t you go and fight for Ukraine , on you go , show us what you’re made of armchair warrior .
It’s not that hard to grasp, even for someone as apparently politically low voltage as you Robert, surely? “We” refers to people in the West who oppose what Putin in doing: you know…the mainstream non moon-howling fraternity you so obviously aren’t part of.
Of course I won’t be there, I’m not a Ukrainian. Whataboutery and calling for those opposing Putin’s invasion to go and fight there just makes you look a bit unhinged, but we already knew that from your general MO. BTL comments will be much improved by your absence: good to see at least one silver lining from the situation I suppose?
Hatuey summarises his world view at 10:58 PM
Suck it up losers. You had it coming and now it’s payback time. Hot damn, bring it on.
Knowing Hatuey for the forthright, decent, plain-speaking chiel that he is, I imagine he will be running up a few hundred flyers with that message on. He will be keen to get out distributing them amongst the expatriate Ukrainian and Eastern European community in Scotland. Kindly and generously show them the errors of their ways.
Don’t forget to stockpile a few thousand, Hatuey. You will need them when the refugees arrive.
@Effigy
Some links to reports of cruise missile strikes to Edinburgh and Glasgow would lend your post some relevance, credibility, or just plain sanity.
I’ll wait.
@Hatuey 10.58 pm
You’re entitled to your own opinions mate, but NOT your own class of facts. The west has never offered any guarantee that NATO would not be expanded. That simply Kremlin agitprop. Whether you actually believe it, or are just parroting such shameless information for some other agenda is a matter for you, but the vast majority of the public in the west generally can see it for the utter bollocks it so undoubtedly is.
Putin didn’t start talking about the west having gone back on promises after the fall of the USSR and guarantees supposedly given about not expanding NATO eastwards until 2007. Neither he or anyone else has ever produced a scintilla of evidence of these guarantees and promises: no communiques, no memorandums, no statements. Both Gorbachev and Yeltsin have denied that there were such guarantees. By all means, give us the links to these promises: sounds like you have them to hand, right…? Otherwise peope might think you’re just another neo-communist blow hard. Oh wait…. 🙂
@John Main 8.55 am
Prepare yourself for a long wait…?
The Putinistas in here would still be making excuses for him if Russian missiles were raining down: it would STILL be the Great Satan’s fault of course. Just wait, when the Russians have control of the Ukraine and turn their sights on Georgia and Armenia, they’ll still be using their “small country’s far away of which we know little” riff.
Then when those are back within the new USSR and Putin demands the Baltic States, they’ll be telling us that it’s not worth a war to protect them. these are the kind of people who would be quite happy living their best lives as part of some modern day Vichy regime, and yet they want us to believe they’re so strongly in favour of independence for Scotland, they’d happily countenance the extinction of independence in the Ukraine and elsewhere, because *reasons/Great Satan/butwhatabout/*
“Suck it up losers. You had it coming and now it’s payback time. Hot damn, bring it on.”
John Main.
What about the 3000+ people the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis have killed in Donetsk and Lugansk, many of them children in the last eight years that they’ve been shelling them.
I don’t recall you or the Western MSM going into a frenzy about that.
@Putin’s Poodle 9.17 am
Hardly surprising you’d resort to a variant of the argument used in the past that all Muslims must condemn any terrorist attack, as though they were all somehow culpable or guilty by association. It was and is a lame rhetorical device in that context, and your constant references to neo-nazis in the Ukraine are equally lame in the current context.
No accident of course that it exactly echoes the words of Putin himself talking about the denazification of the Ukraine. You’re not fooling anyone except the small band of die hard “tankies” and other fellow travellers in here. You’re the same kind of awful human beings who would have been cheering the Red Army on when they crushed the Hungarians in 1956, the Czechs in 1968 and the Poles in the 1980’s.
The SNP’s partners in crime the Greens, their leader Patrick Harvie said that the invasion of Ukraine began in 2014, but it wasn’t a Russian one, the US coup from the US embassy in Kiev took place under the watchful eyes of US State Department official Victoria Nuland in 2014, the coup forced the democratically elected Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych to flee the country, and he was replaced with the US puppet Petro Poroshenko.
Harvie should check first before he feign so deeply for the Western narrative.
On the matter neither the EU nor Nato openly condemned the coup nor the did the Western media, however when American’s stormed the US Capitol building in Washington, it was reported as an attack on freedom and democracy.
republicofscotland
Sensible comments and good to see someone quoting history correctly , the UK media conveniently forgetting the roll the USA through the CIA played in this whole sorry mess .
And Ellis who are you working for ? ” Rhetorical “
I see Putin’s Poodle “(People’s) Republic of Scotland” continues his descent in to Trumpist territory. As the French say: “quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue”!
Doubtless in his fervid imaginings he sees himself strutting around the halls of Holyrood in his Hieland Coo headdress, waving his Hammer and Sickle flag and proclaiming victory over the Great Satan.
I imagine the reality is somewhat different. Anyone who describes the 2014 Revolution of Dignity as a US inspired coup and thinks the storming of the White House by Trumpist insurrectionaries wasn’t an attack on freedom and democracy is beyond parody really, but it’s fun to point and laugh nonetheless.
@Robert Graham 10.01 am
I’m not the one uncritically spouting from Putin’s agitprop playbook Robert. I realise that in here there is a hard core of unreconstructed fellow travellers, but you and they shouldn’t try and fool yourselves that you represent anything other than a tiny and widely ridiculed minority of the wider population or the independence movement.
Conspiracy theorists gonna conspire I suppose? Just don’t expect the silent majority to take you remotely seriously.
When not smocking crack/plying young prostitutes with crack, posting his sex videos on Pornhub, discussing his incestuous family relationships, forging pipelines to the Obama Administration, and making deals with the fu**ing spy chief of China, what was Hunter Biden’s role at Burisma Holdings Ltd:
link to washingtonpost.com
It is a well worn cliché, “truth is the first casualty of war”. I am watching different news channels and getting a different picture of the on the ground situation. Take the exchange at the airport near Kyiv. Beaten back Ukrainian forces or a diversionary tactic by the Russians. Certainly light highly mobile paratroops are often used in this type of operation. Looking at the history of how we got here is for the future. The dissolution of the Nato Russia Joint Council in 2014 after Crimea I think was critical. Jaw Jaw not War.
I wonder who’ll be awarded the Ukrainian Order of Merit this year…
The point is we have been lied to so many times in Scotland by MSM and experienced the old empire rhetoric being plied upon us, while information was held back,
We have no reason to trust the MSM or the colonial propaganda warmongering attitude.
The plan to need, a antagonist reason to attack Russia has been sitting on the boiler for a long time.
We aren’t putins puppets, its perhaps more a case of we aren’t the empires idiots any more after all their same rhetoric to us.
Only a ole empire worshipper would suggest that kind of rhetoric. the Scots and putin are hand in hand.
Because the ole empire iwould like nothing better to exterminate the Scots under a false flag.
The only problem nowadays is Scotland is full of English.
Or Hero of the Russian Federation…..?
Perhaps some of the fellow travellers will get awards from the pretendy republics….
@James Che 11.11 am
Even by your admittedly low standards that post is a doozie James:
“the Scots and putin are hand in hand”” are they hell as like.
“Scotland is full of English” more blood and sol ethnic nationalism.
Step away from the glue and the plastic bag James.
@Ruby – Agreed, although as attractive as Wull’s idea for tactical ignorance might first appear, the danger that that poses in a world where Boris Johnson looks increasingly like the most honest or level headed leader in the West is not slight.
In the interim, echoes of 2014 (albeit without the promised referendum) notwithstanding, and to keep spirits up lest our dont knows rapidly become no longer care, here’s some words from a parallel world that brought some cheer as recently as 3 days ago (no relation to either poster)
“Dan Dale
February 22, 2022 2:52 pm
Reply to Boogywstew
The trucks were four wide on each side of the road facing parliament, and it was between two and four wide for almost two blocks after these lead trucks of four.
The trucks had been positioned around Ottawa in a way to keep them isolated. But they were always in sufficient numbers to create quit a show of force. The big Kenworths and Western Stars were big, and the boys inside had a cool factor that made political and police feel exceedingly little and pathetic. The hate for these men can only be understood in that they by their very presence made the tyrant look so very worthless. Trudeau and many police began to see that these men commanded respect and adoration just by blowing their horns.
The energy created by these boys all getting on the air horns at the same time brought tears to the eyes. Everyone that came had to experience this central location. At this location the stage had been set up. The blowing of horns just added to the cheers of those of us who were in the crowd. It was unbelievable. You will never recreate that moment.
Smiles and joy of every face. The truckers were the center of attention. The horn blowing was more for the millions that came to stand with the truckers than an act to be a nuisance in the community. The reality is that when two million people joined cheers to hundreds of big rigs all on the air horns, something happened to the spirit. The soul became alive again. It was contagious. The govt didn’t fear truck horns. They feared this renewing of the soul. The police all wore hearing protection. We in the crowd could not get enough of it.
The horns of freedom will not go silent. The horns were a call to action.”
Honk Honk!
Basically, we were all having a few beers at the euro bar and there was a bit of shit-stirring going on. Russia done a Begby and tumblered Ukraine in the face but most of us agree Ukraine sorta had it coming…
That’s where we are. We can turn it into a major barny and watch the bar close down or we can put on some Abba and relax.
@Hatuey 11.40 am
“but most of us agree Ukraine sorta had it coming…”
Nope, “we” don’t. You don’t even speak for most people here, never mind in the movement more generally and still less the general Scottish population.
Andy, will you go over to Ukraine and fight for your principles?
Stuart mctavish.
That encapsulates the hope and lifting of spirits across the world, and indeed what Scotland felt.
Interesting to note that every time we lift our spirits here a ole empire voice pops up to squash the attempts and thoughts.
No matter what the topic is.
They certainly do not like people in Scotland talking amongst them selfs.
Dun ter ter dun, “The empire strikes back “.
Every time.
@Hatuey 11.46 am
No: that’s pretty lame even by your admittedly low standards. Are you planning to go and help subjugate the Ukrainians or help establish the new pretendy republics?
I suppose at least you’re marginally more intelligible than James Che, but your input is about as sensible recently. Do you have the same dealer or something?
I haven’t heard Zalensky ask for International Brigades. I would support more aid to the Ukraine but I suspect it’s already too late: the appeasers have done their job. It’s now more a question of the long slog to restore Ukrainian democracy and ensure its people don’t end up living under Russian domination.
Andy.
Honk Honk 🙂
I still haven’t read or listened to anything about Russia/Ukraine.
I have however put the following on the list of things I will eventually read:
link to archive.is
JOHN PILGER: War in Europe and the rise of raw propaganda
He was referring to independent journalists and whistleblowers, the honest mavericks to whom media organisations once gave space, often with pride. The space has been abolished.
The war hysteria that has rolled in like a tidal wave in recent weeks and months is the most striking example. Known by its jargon, “shaping the narrative”, much, if not most, of it is pure propaganda.’
Andy.
Honk Honk.
“I still haven’t read or listened to anything about Russia/Ukraine.”
Rare to see people so ready to crow about their own ignorance and determination to remain ignorant.*
*OK, I know it’s Ruby but imagine having so little self respect that you publicly crow about burying your head in the sand as Ukrainian civilians are killed by Russians.
Turns out Zelensky isn’t an angel after all;
“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property.”
link to occrp.org
T.C.E.
Honk! Honk!
It looks like the Ukrainian military put up very little resistance, despite all the talk and arms we invested, and I’m wondering why they don’t just surrender and get it over and done with.
The west has made it clear that it’s not willing to get into a fight where the other guy, Russia in this case, is able to fight back.
Zelensky should surrender, order all Ukrainian forces to stand down, and flee the country immediately. If he cares about Ukraine, he should do that today.
@Hatuey 12.11 pm
I must have missed where Zalensky was described as an angel..? Perhaps you have links…? No..? Thought not.
Tell us Hatuey….what is the acceptable level of purity for office holders in your view? Is it “plaster saint level”, or “liable to be nailed to two planks” level?
@Hatuey 12.31 pm
I wonder if you’d resist if someone invaded your country? I don’t know if you’re Scottish or not, but theoretically if there was a war in whichever country you regard as “home” would you actively resist an invasion like that happening in the Ukraine now, or just passively resist, or actively collaborate with the newly established authorities?
link to johnmenadue.com
Another one for my list
The people who create and sustain our mental furniture are top professionals at what they do. They condition our thinking and emotions, through powerful images and memes as well as words. Highly intelligent people hate to admit they have fallen for such propaganda, and often get angry when it is suggested to them that they have.
link to declassifieduk.org
Another one for the list.
Ukraine’s National Guard says that in meeting last year the UK military agreed to start training its forces, which include a thousand-strong neo-Nazi unit. The UK Ministry of Defence disputes the claim.
The point about fighting in this case is that it will just make the situation worse. It certainly won’t stop Russia. And what or who would they be fighting for — some bunch of corrupt politicians?
It’s morally reprehensible to ask soldiers to die in a war they can’t possibly win.
link to theintercept.com
I’m going to be busy.
Ach I’m wondering if you should just stick to being a ‘don’t know’
By the look of ‘certain people’ posting here being too ‘informed’ could be seriously bad for your health. I bet T.C.E’s blood pressure is sky high and he is at serious risk of being sectioned.
I’m off to read what’s going on in Sweden with gender dysphoria. It sounds like something I could agree with.
No HEA for the bromance?
‘Ra-ra-ah-ah-ah
Roma-roma-ma
Gaga, ooh la-la
Caught in a bad romance
Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Caught in a bad romance’
Hatuey 12.50
You wrote “And what or who would they be fighting for — some bunch of corrupt politicians?
Dunno mate. Maybe inconsequential things like Freedom, democracy and a desire not to have their lives run by a violent, psycho liar?
It’s a sort of woke idealism to think that countries exist in some inviolable state of freedom and that they can behave as antisocially and irresponsibly as they like towards their neighbours and other states in the international arena.
The main reason that we (and reality) are so far from that is primarily down to the US and its allies consistently undermining efforts to establish respect and recognition for international law.
The result is what you see; a confused international system where power, informal spheres of influence, and the rights of states as well as their relationships are conveniently ill-defined.
The West (or Anglo Saxon West) decided it would teach Russia a lesson for daring to stick its nose into Iran, Syria, and the Middle East generally (which is informally regarded as Anglo Saxon turf) by agitating on its Western borders through NATO and EU expansion.
That’s what brought us to all this. It’s a 21st century version of The Great Game.
Pretending we have an international order based the rights of nation states is not only wrong and childish, it’s dangerous.
When people like Andy Ellis and Sturgeon start putting as much effort into voicing the rights of Palestinians as they are putting now into those of Ukrainians, then and only then will I consider for a moment that they might be serious about their principles (rather than opportunist shills looking for attention and reward).
And let’s be in no doubt; these shills are more than capable of walking humanity off a cliff. The only thing stopping them doing that right now is Putin who they know is every bit as sociopathic and self-serving as they are.
@Hatuey 2.11 pm
I can only echo Sensible Dave’s post, despite rarely agreeing with him in the past: certain values are surely worth fighting for. you are of course free to disagree, but the news has been full of Ukrainians who are preparing to fight and if necessary die for the freedom of their country. Perhaps that makes them better people than you, since you’d apparently just knuckle under and accept foreign rule being imposed on you in the same situation. That’s entirely your choice of course, but it tells us a lot about the kind of person you are.
Nobody sane thinks “the West” is some camp of the saints or without moral blemish. We don’t live in a perfect world. The international system and international law are what they are: what alternative are you proposing to the current situation? Establishing respect and recognition for international law is a great soundbite. Is that what Putin is doing now? The international order – such as it is – isn’t pretend, but it IS based on nation states for better or worse. Unless you have some shortcut to the sunny uplands of global government which is universally accepted, you’re just wringing your hands: it doesn’t really move us forward.
I do support the rights of Palestinians. These things are rarely as one dimensional as doctrinaire ideologues or idealist dreamers like to make out however. I’m not sure what reward you think I’d be looking for. Some people will not agree with me, others will. Obviously you and some others in here think the former are the silent majority, but I’m pretty convinced you’re delusional. Time and polling evidence will tell I guess.
I don’t think getting your panties in a bunch about the world being walked off a cliff particularly helps what passes for your argument. The closest the world has come to disaster before wasn’t a result of situations like these, but misread signals and (famously) a Soviet submarine B-59 during the Cuban missile crisis when the commander and political officer were mercifully overruled by the flotilla admiral before firing a nuclear torpedo.
We don’t know how the current situation will develop. The blood of the Ukrainian people is on Putin’s hands of course, but our own countries leaders and establishment bear a share of the responsibility for allowing the situation to get this far. Hysterical predictions don’t help, but are indicative of the vacuity of your case.
If Putin’s regime are actually aiming to extinguish Ukraine as an independent nation, or refashion it as a “Potemkin country”, it may take years to overturn and will doubtless involve a lot of pain on both sides. In the end the Russians will probably fail again, as they have before. They’ll be isolated, made international pariahs and find themselves in the same situation they did before the Berlin Wall fell. The lesson of history after all is that people don’t learn the lessons of history.
I was wondering why Russian forces were trying to take the Chernobyl nuclear power station from the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis yesterday, now I find out today that the Neo-Nazis blew up a nuclear power station outside Lugansk yesterday. Ukraine has around fifteen nuclear power plants, in various stages of dilapidation, the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis could blow up another nuclear station if they are not secured.
Meanwhile James Heappy, Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces for the UK has said Nato forces must not get involved in the fight. This was followed by a report that UK Chieftan tanks have arrived in Poland and will be immediately handed over to the Neo-Nazi forces in Ukraine.
@Putin’s Poodle 2.51 pm
Sounds a lot more like ‘Dumb and lazy’: the flawed films of Ukrainian ‘attacks’ made by Russia’s ‘fake factory’ described in the recent Guardian article:
link to archive.today
I have an idea that if the Ukrainians had indeed blown up a nuclear power station the whole world would know and the IAEA would be screaming it from the rooftops, and yet…..tumbleweed. You wouldn’t just be making more shit up again would you…? Or are your handlers getting more insistent that they get a return on their investment?
The stories about Ukrainian Neo-Nazis trying to blow up nuclear power plants is believable enough, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear it was actually the Ukrainian National Guard… it’s been difficult to distinguish between nazis and official military in Ukraine since 2014.
Ruby@12.44pm.
Yes Ruby I read that a wee while back as Putin attempts to de-nazify Ukraine, and in the process stop the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis from committing genocide in Lugansk and Donetsk, the UK MoD are deeply in bed with the Neo-Nazis.
Hatuey 2.11
You wrote “The result is what you see; a confused international system where power, informal spheres of influence, and the rights of states as well as their relationships are conveniently ill-defined.”
No mate. What we have here are countries where citizens can vote to replace their Leader – and countries where they can’t.
No democracy is perfect but we know that democracies generally don’t go to war with each other – because the people of a democracy generally don’t have issues with folk in other democracies. It takes a despot dictator baddie type to do what is happening in Ukraine. Bosnia, Falklands, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, China and various African countries (where the despot turns on a section of their own population) are examples of the loonies have taken over the asylum.
There is no “equivalence” between the likes of Johnson, Sturgeon, Biden, Macron, etc that are elected by, and will be ejected by, their relative electorates – and the likes of Putin. Putin is almost a caricature of a loony, despot Bond Villain – he just needs a volcano and cat. He is a very dangerous man and unlike almost anyone else – we all think he is just about mad enough to press the nuclear button.
Hatuey @3.38pm.
There are hundreds of monument and hundreds of streets in Ukraine named after Nazi collaborators what kind of people would allow those disgusting monuments and street names to remain, not only that, since the US coup took place in 2014 the Nazi monuments and street names have grown in number.
I’d say that the hero worship of Nazism is endemic to Ukrainians, maybe not to all Ukrainians but enough to allow those vile monuments and street names to remain and grow.
“Human Rights Watch reported that “racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine”.[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that “tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine…”
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
UEFA has had to take action hundr
… hundreds of times, as far as I can make out, and has even forced Ukrainian teams to play behind closed doors…
Is Ukraine the most racist country in the world?
Hatuey.
Zelensky has sent out word that he wants to open talks with Putin into halting the hostilities, he also had a dig at EU/Nato nations for not helping Ukraine, maybe the penny has finally dropped for Zelensky that Nato used his country to goad the Russian bear.
Here’s hoping any discussions lead to a ceasefire.
Sensible Dave: “It takes a despot dictator baddie type to do what is happening in Ukraine.”
Just Lolz without comment.
Hatuey.
The discussions are expected to take place in either Warsaw (Poland) or Minsk (Belarus). Here’s hoping an agreement can be reached.
@Hatuey
Isn’t the best way of diminishing the issues you describe to anchor Ukraine in the west, and ensure it gradually becomes a fully fledged member of the EU and NATO as the majority of its citizens clearly want it to? Even you can’t be naive enough to think these problems will be alleviated more quickly or completely in a Ukraine which is integrated in Russia or becomes a Potemkin state in its orbit?
Of course the Putinistas in here uncritically regurgitating Putin’s talking points about de-nazification aren’t so keen to talk about the far right in Russia, and it’s record, or about the anti-semitism there nor about the appalling human rights record and war crimes committed by the insurgents in the pretendy republics.
One might almost think they had an agenda of some kind……
Oh dear: sore burn for the Putinistas here! Amnesty International accusing Russia of war crimes in the Ukraine.
“Russian military commits indiscriminate attacks during the invasion of Ukraine
• Amnesty International research verifies violations in international humanitarian law
• Russian attacks could constitute war crimes
• Russian claims to use precision guided weapons are patently false”
link to amnesty.org
The hollow claim that two democracies have never gone to war with one another can surely now be put to rest… you might not like Putin’s Russia but it’s every bit as democratic as Scotland or anywhere else.
Of course, that’s all based on our fake western definition of democracy whereby just about all the important resources one needs to survive are in the hands of a few companies. In Russia it’s the same but we call them oligarchs for some weird reason.
You do get to vote but doing so won’t make a bit of difference, as you all know.
Andy, I see you’re interested in Amnesty International… would you like some links to their condemnations of Israel, the US in various theatres, and British arms sales?
@Hatuey
Why? Do you think I’m not aware? I was a member in the past.
Shall we give prominence to their condemnations of Russia’s human rights record too? How about China, or Syria or Iran?
How will we know who wins in this game of “your friends are worse than my friends” Top Trumps Hatuey?
First they came for the Ukrainians, and I didn’t speak up because I was not a Ukrainian……
“Russia Sends Bone-Chilling Message To Sweden & Finland; Threatens ‘Military Implications’ If They Go The Ukraine Way”
link to eurasiantimes.com
What sent you a member of is the question ?
The Great Satan playing its part in defending Nazism.
“FACEBOOK WILL TEMPORARILY allow its billions of users to praise the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi military unit previously banned from being freely discussed under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, The Intercept has learned.”
“The policy shift, made this week, is pegged to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and preceding military escalations. The Azov Battalion, which functions as an armed wing of the broader Ukrainian white nationalist Azov movement, began as a volunteer anti-Russia militia before formally joining the Ukrainian National Guard in 2014; the regiment is known for its hardcore right-wing ultranationalism and the neo-Nazi ideology pervasive among its members. Though it has in recent years downplayed its neo-Nazi sympathies, the group’s affinities are not subtle: Azov soldiers march and train wearing uniforms bearing icons of the Third Reich; its leadership has reportedly courted American alt-right and neo-Nazi elements; and in 2010, the battalion’s first commander and a former Ukrainian parliamentarian, Andriy Biletsky, stated that Ukraine’s national purpose was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade …”
link to theintercept.com
Ukrainians need to re-frame their trauma.
I’ve been watching the live cam in Kiev’s Maidan Square on YouTube. I remember watching cams like that when we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, amongst others… the difference is that the Russians aren’t doing much whereas we lit up the whole sky.
If Russia hadn’t intervened now, in a matter of months they’d be facing a much nastier Ukraine that was armed to the teeth, motivated by neo-nazi ideology, and possibly a NATO member…
If western leaders and their fanboys are serious about peace, they should devote themselves to proving it by giving the UN more and real powers and doing everything possible towards re-establishing international law.
Otherwise we will be here again soon with China or some other country, and it’s just a matter of time before nukes are used.
link to nsarchive.gwu.edu
“Not one inch” wasn’t the only ‘reassurance’ the West bought peaceful German unification with.
What scares me, are the players in the game. Unfitness for office seems in vogue. Even the wiley bastard Putin, often the only grown up in the room, looks a bit shaky/mentally unbalanced here.
I’ve advised one of my kids that in the highly unlikely event that it all goes full Pete Tong, standing under the airburst is probably the best course of action.
🙁
Bad nostalgia from teenage years in the 80’s,living near Grangemouth.
What is the point of the never ending argument between Hautey & Ellis?
Sure as shit it ain’t helping the people of Ukraine & it’s just totally boring the rest of us.
Perhaps Mr Bonkers and T.E.C. could get together and have some peace talks. Agree to disagree.
If they are unable to do that then neither one of the pair of them should be discussing war.
I was at the dentist this morning.
It’s always something I dread but it was absolutely fine.
The reason I’m mentioning this is because I was told there are no more 6 monthly check-ups on the NHS now it’s yearly check-ups.
Sensible Dave says:
No mate. What we have here are countries where citizens can vote to replace their Leader – and countries where they can’t.
Sinister Dave is back! That’s all we need.
When you say ‘here’ do you mean England?
From what’s being said on Wings, the current conflict appears to be bad guys v very bad guys. Democracy v Tyranny?
I’m not so sure it matters to many who blinks first. The images that struck me were of what seemed like a number of very poor locals stuck in the middle of it all looking totally bewildered and uninterested, not looking particularly healthy, and standing against a backdrop of poor housing in desolate surroundings. Whoever ‘wins’, it will make not a jot of difference to the lives of these poor peasants. It is an absolute joke that both sides claim that the conflict is in defence of their liberties.
This type of image could of course be captured in the vast majority of countries in the world, whether there was a conflict in progress, or not. If you are sitting at or near the bottom of life’s birth lottery then there are no good guys.
As always, the poor are the cannon fodder of rich folks’ ambitions. There is no difference between rich v poor and strong v week. Tyranny and democracy are on the same sliding scale, part of the same approach to oppression. One is less bad that the other? Oh, whoopee. The gap between democracy and tyranny narrows EVERY year.
I don’t think too many of those queuing at Scottish foodbanks, or waiting, and waiting, for cancer treatment in Scottish hospitals, or turning off the heating in Scottish homes, will give a toss about the rights and wrongs of a power struggle between USA and EU and NATO and Russia. The power players sitting in luxurious conference rooms across the globe won’t be in the front line, that’s for sure.
“Vicious cycle of distrust fueled by government and media:
We find a world ensnared in a vicious cycle of distrust, fueled by a growing lack of faith in media and government. Through disinformation and division, these two institutions are feeding the cycle and exploiting it for commercial and political gain.”:
link to edelman.com
Amidst all the talk of peace talks and negotiated solutions, organisers of the Eurovision Song Contest have decided Russia will not be invited to take part this year.
It’s disproportionate wildcat decisions like that that I worry about.
This is getting out of control.
A noxious stench coming the BTL comments today, with Hatuey’s pebble dash at 5:04 PM of exceptional pungency.
Tread in a Hatuey and you might as well throw away your shoes. They will never be fit for polite or rational company again.
But maybes sympathy is more in order than disgust. Put yourself inside Hatuey’s cerebral cesspit for a mo and you can read just how disappointed he is that the Ukrainians are not dying spectacularly enough on TV for him. Keep watching Hatuey, you might get some good vids to record and watch over and over yet. Early days.
Congrats on learning your new N word BTW. Or should that be a double-N word? Anyways, make sure you use it in every post going forwards. The rest of us enjoy observing Godwin’s Law in action and you owe us big time for the rank pollution you are spraying over the Scots Indy cause.
Russia-Ukraine.
I find I dont care. Our great leaders in London, Washington, Berlin and Brussels dont that is for sure. So exactly why should we care?
Oh and how many Knighthoods has the English Tory Party handed out to big Russian donors?
Oh and I regard Scotland,Catalonia and the Basquelands as under hostile foreign occupation.
Why should we care? Well I dont.
A fairly accurate assessment so far for those who want an update.
link to paulcraigroberts.org
@John Main 7.52 pm
Putin’s assets – paid or otherwise – have little else to amuse themselves with than their collective circle jerking about “the Great Satan” in the deep self delusion that they represent the majority. It’s like Wolfie Smith and the Tooting Popular Front, or the Redgrave financed Workers Revolutionary Party. If they weren’t so odious they’d be funny.
Of course it’s unlikely they’re all actually paid assets (I suspect the FSB would be asking for refunds?), but lackwits like ebok pontificating about how Scots can’t be concerned about more than one thing at a time are more than happy to clap along like seals hoping they’ll be thrown the occasional fish.
As you rightly note they’re the movements equivalent of grievance chimps. They’re happy throwing their rhetorical shit around in inchoate rage at their lack of relevance and delusions of adequacy. Back in the real world the vast majority of ordinary Scots and those in the movement stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of the Ukraine. Over on the Alba Facebook pages a few Putinistas were bloviating about their disappointment. I love the taste of their tears as they realise how irrelevant they are. 🙂
@Putin’s Parrot 8.22 pm
Paul Craig Roberts…the noted conspiracy theorist and anti-semite you mean…?
I wondered how long it’d take for your mask to slip…..
For those really interested in the kind of person the Putinistas are fluffing as offering accurate information on the Ukraine, check Paul Craig Roberts bio on Wikipedia out if you have a strong stomach:
– In 2019, Roberts wrote in support of the views of Holocaust denier David Irving, asserting that “Irving, without any doubt the best historian of the European part of World War II, learned at his great expense that challenging myths does not go unpunished… I will avoid the story of how this came to be, but, yes, you guessed it, it was the Zionists”.
– Roberts added that “No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews… The “death camps” were in fact work camps. Auschwitz, for example, today a Holocaust museum, was the site of Germany’s essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force.”
– Roberts has described himself as a “9/11 skeptic” and spoken at 9/11 Truth movement events
– Regarding the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Roberts has written that “all evidence pointed to a plot by the Joint Chiefs, CIA, and Secret Service whose right-wing leaders had concluded that President Kennedy was too ‘soft on communism'”.[42] He has also stated that the Charlie Hebdo shooting has many of the characteristics of a false flag operation” motivated in part “to stifle the growing European sympathy for the Palestinians and to realign Europe with Israel”
– The Washington Post noted that in 2014 Roberts speculated on his blog that Ebola originated as a US bioweapon and this was picked up by North Korea’s state media
– In 2003, the Southern Poverty Law Centre wrote that Roberts was a key figure in the mainstreaming of the antisemitic “cultural Marxism” conspiracy theory.[38] In 2016, antisemitism researchers Manfred Gerstenfeld and Leah Hagelberg wrote about him sharing antisemitic conspiracy theory material about Israel creating ISIL
– The Anti-Defamation League describes Roberts as antisemitic:
“Paul Craig Roberts [is] an anti-Semitic syndicated columnist… Since 2007, Roberts’ columns have increasingly focused on criticism of Israel and Jews and often conjure up anti-Semitic canards, making them popular with fringe publications on both the left and the right. Like many other contemporary anti-Semites, Roberts frames his anti-Semitism as criticism of Israel and the country’s supporters. His published views, however, go far beyond any criticism of Israel’s policies, regularly charging Israeli or Jewish control of the U.S. government and media and comparing Israel to the Nazi regime”
By their friends shall ye know them right enough. And these are the folk banging on about the Ukrainian regime being captured by neo-nazis? Truly there are not enough LOLZ.
“I wondered how long it’d take for your mask to slip”
I don’t have a mask.
The ADL and the Southern poverty Law Centre really?
link to wikispooks.com
link to wikispooks.com
Even by Wikileaks terrible standards Mr Roberts had had a very reputable career.
link to en.wikipedia.org
This could be one of the defining conflicts of recent times,
Anglo Ellis v Haughty,
my goad `the horror the horror` 🙂
Rather than waste your time with the output of Republic of Scotland’s anti-semitic, holocaust denying conspiracy theorist friends, read this instead from Oona Hathaway, Professor of International Law at Yale Law School: “Putin Can’t Destroy the International Order by Himself”.
link to lawfareblog.com
She concludes:
“The real test will be what happens in the longer term. Putin is likely planning to put in place a puppet government that will “consent” to his many illegal actions. He is almost certainly counting on the coalition that has responded to the current crisis to fray over time as costs mount. That is a real and serious danger. Plans should be made now to hold the alliance together as long as necessary—for years, and perhaps decades. That means planning now for alternative energy sources for Europe, shoring up protections for countries in the region that may be vulnerable, and forming a mechanism for considering additional steps as needed.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a blow to the international legal order—and it’s likely to lead to terrible destruction and loss of life. But it will succeed in undermining the system that has enabled unprecedented decline in interstate wars only if the rest of the world lets it. A healthy legal system responds aggressively and resolutely to assaults on it. If the response is broad, robust, and sustained, then the modern legal order will not weaken. It will strengthen.”
Andy Ellis
I find it interesting that the same kind of denial of first cause that I noticed when Covid was gifted to the world is now repeating.
Most people flatly refuse to acknowledge that China was responsible for Covid, and spend endless hours transferring the blame onto anyone and everyone else: Trump, Johnston, Cummings, etc.
Now we have many people trying to blame Ukraine, Trump, Johnston, etc. for the fact that Russian munitions are destroying Ukraine, and Russian troops are seizing Ukrainian land and infrastructure.
Why are the saddos on here making out they believe that Ukraine was ever a credible threat to Russia? I think that these people are shitting themselves, and that they have withdrawn into denial out of cowardice. It is a deeply uncomfortable and frightening discovery that a heavily armed nuclear power run by an unchallengeable megalomaniac has decided to re-shape Europe.
As I wrote yesterday, the world has changed for all of us. What we had before 9-11 is not coming back, neither is what we had prior to Covid. And now this is going to disrupt and destroy our lazy certainties yet again. We don’t know how this will end, but it won’t be comfortable or easy for us, whether we will be freezing due to energy shortages, or struggling to house refugees, or broke trying to pay for more expensive food.
How comforting it is for some to blame the victim. Ukraine as the battered ex-wife who had it coming. She shouldn’t have been looking away from jealous, manipulative, stalking ex-husband Russia.
I have contempt for people who think like that.
Calm down Ellis, you are hysterical, Roberts is an old reaganite, considered mainstream at one time.
– are you playing “anything I don’t like is a conspiracy theory”
link to amazon.co.uk
“cultural marxism” has been a common usage for a long time. This guy – DWORKIN – I don’t think he is a neo nazi, put it that way.
As for the ADL – there is no part of the universe in which they could not find “anti semitism”. According to the new definition of “anti semitism” we are all antisemites anyway.
unintentionally funny – (obvious objectively unbiased)
“antisemitism researchers Manfred GERSTENFELD and Leah HAGELBERG”
Now go read “the Holocaust Industry” by Norman FINKELSTEIN.
You should stop using Commando comics as the basis of your geopolitics – and maybe Main can stop peddling Sunday Post level analysis.
link to youtube.com
I want to see youtube “callout” vids for Ellis/Hatuey and Main/Ruby – if it turns into a bareknuckle fight in the car park of a Wetherspoons, I’ll have a fiver on ruby.
Scot Finlayson
Naw. Nae conflict or contest.
Andy has a consistent and logical world view, and the ability to reason from it. Not one I agree with much over 50%, but I can still acknowledge it for what it is.
Hatuey has a laptop or tablet. And a chip. That’s all.
@Confused 9.42 pm
His mainstream past and what he did before doesn’t excuse his apparent descent into conspiracy land, nor his very public pronouncements. Neither does shooting the ADL messenger overturn the fact the man is a holocaust denier and anti-semite.
Confused
Your fiver is safe. If it turns into a bare knuckle fight with Ruby, and she is of the gender her name suggests, I won’t be hitting her.
Maybes if she is wee enough and light enough you might fancy your chances though. Bet you are getting excited just at the thought of it.
Confused
I want to see youtube “callout” vids for Ellis/Hatuey and Main/Ruby
Yeah! I’m up for the ‘callout’ vids especially when it involves ‘speaking in code’.
Slight problem partnering me with Main. I feel no animosity towards Main. Mr Bonkers & T.E.C. on the other hand really get up my nose. Happy to take them both on at once.
I don’t do ‘fisty cuffs’ I prefer to fight like a girl.
ie:
Cleaning the toilet with his face cloth. Putting a couple of sardines in his curtain lining when he’s away on holiday, jalapeno peppers in his knickers, Veet in his hairgel, laxative in his cornflakes and that sort of thing.
My favourite book is ‘The Life & Loves of a She Devil’ by Fay Weldon.
“Rather than waste your time with the output of Republic of Scotland’s anti-semitic, holocaust denying”
That rich coming from you Ellis, who is 100% behind the Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine, its also the narrative that you need to push from Denison or GCHQ, you’ve been well sussed out Ellis.
A Nazi loving Chinthe.
Acht geez a break ya fecking loons.
Press the fecking buttom cos I don’t give a fuck.
You know as much about international diplomacy and even the remotest bit of neutrality aboot any war its fecking embarrassing to me .
Confused to Ellis and John Main: “You should stop using Commando comics as the basis of your geopolitics – and maybe Main can stop peddling Sunday Post level analysis.”
That’s the quote of the day. Their combined efforts on this issue are an insult to the intelligence of anyone that has a spine and a couple of brain cells.
To be clear, nobody here supports what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Nobody desired it. What we are trying to do is understand it and put it in a context that helps. Who knows, maybe we can contribute to some collective understanding that has positive implications.
Every time international relations throws up a crisis like this, an army of liars come out of the woodwork urging us to forget everything that’s happened before. That’s convenient, of course, when your “side” has more blood on its hands than nearly all other countries combined, but it’s also dishonest, cowardly, and dangerous.
The world is a mess because of these liars and the masters they serve. On climate change, arms sales, geopolitics, world poverty, the energy crisis, pollution, you name it, you have the same cabal making billions in profit, served by the same army of intellectual mercenaries telling us all to shut up and get on with our jobs…
Have you any idea what it costs to get educated people like Andy Ellis to propagate and prop up this shit-show, selling the rest of us, along with planet earth itself, down the river? It’s peanuts. You’re talking maybe thirty or forty thousand per year — tops. I’ve been pushing underachievers like that out of my way for the last 30 years.
That’s how flimsy the whole thing is though. You have a handful of rich guys that are totally pathetic and detached from reality, served by legions of these useless talking heads whose only job it is to keep the rest of us confused and in our place.
Journalists, academics, pundits, talk-show hosts, foreign policy experts, etc., etc., their primary role in this world is to spread disinformation and prevent meaningful change. They’re doing that for buttons on behalf of people who have more money than anyone could possibly need.
This isn’t a comment. It’s a message in a bottle. Somebody in the future will find and read this message, and hopefully they’ll realise we weren’t all unthinking mercenary asswipes.
Ruby
“I feel no animosity towards Main”
Well why didn’t you say earlier?
Wetherspoons Car Park, East Kilbride, 10:30 the morn. Let me win and I’ll split the fiver with you.
I’ve got sardines, BYO Veet.
East Kilbride that’s ‘en el quinto coño’ as they say in Spanish. I would have to spend all my winnings getting there.
I have a better plan. We could just upload some video game footage give it a title and get ‘confused’ to cough up.
link to archive.is
‘This dogfight footage comes from a video game
Footage of an aerial dogfight is accompanied by the caption “MiG-29 of the Air Force of the Armed Forces destroys the ‘unparalleled’ Su-35 of the Russian occupiers”.
However, it’s video game footage from the game Digital Combat Simulator World. This isn’t the first time that game footage has been used to illustrate military action.”
Hatuey writes:
“To be clear, nobody here supports what Russia is doing in Ukraine”
Glad to hear it. Said it before Hatuey, and it bears repetition. Your ability to put down in writing what you mean, accurately and unambiguously, needs a bit of work so that these kind of mistakes can’t occur. As you say, you have been pushing underachievers like me out of your way for all of your life. You need to cut us a bit of slack, we don’t all have your advantages.
Anyways, you can speak for yourself, of course. But for everyone? A few others here have been writing “inaccurately and ambiguously”, or maybes too clever and highbrow, leading to yet more misconceptions on the part of us slower Sunday Post readers.
If your assertion that nobody here supports what Russia is doing in Ukraine is correct, I am sure their clarifications will be along shortly.
link to archive.is
The first image looks like the video footage Chelsea Manning leaked to Wikileaks.
(note to self – do not annoy ruby, ever)
I see robbo is annoyed about – people talking about that really big thing which is going on, right now …
but it’s either ukraine or trannies, coz there’s sod-all going on with indy.
or – “ukrainian trannies” – but that sounds like a “google search from hell”; do not go there.
obviously putin must be gutted about losing eurovision, but I think I know what will put a stop to his games
Wee Nikki should slap sanctions on him :
NAE IRN BRU FUR YOU
John Main, take my advice; stop trying to sound intelligent. And stop trying to convince me that you understand things —I’m not marking your work.
Those problems crop up a lot. The best writers don’t try and sound intelligent and don’t try to convince you they understand stuff. They just write.
I blame the education system. When you think about it, that’s what pupils and students are trained to do, convince teachers that they are smart and that they understand stuff. It’s boring to read though; so boring that you literally need to pay people to do it.
Just write.
People pay me for advice like that. I’m giving it to you for free.
Anybody interested in the preservation of human life will hope for a swift Russian takeover. Minimum cost to life is my take. Then the real diplomacy can commence. Putin is a nutter but Nato are not without criticism. The MSM have been appalling in their reporting. I would say disgraceful. And it doesn’t matter which channel you watch. How we got here is for the future. Covid has devoid us of real investigative journalism, they trawl social media accounts and wrap it up as breaking news. On site journalists are in the subway bunkers. Meanwhile Scottish (and UK soldiers) are on standby now under the command of Nato leadership. A dogs breakfast.
@Hatuey 11.32 pm
“To be clear, nobody here supports what Russia is doing in Ukraine.”
That’s patently untrue though isn’t it? Putinistas in here have told us that the Ukrainians had it coming, and have banged on ad nauseam about the neo-nazis being in control of the Ukraine using precisely the wording and approach we see and hear from Lavrov…and it’s virtually word for word from the Kremlin playbook. Even if some of the fringe elements in here grudgingly do say they don’t actively support Russian aggression, they are adept at victim blaming. Again, this has all the hallmarks of agitprop, whether actually paid for or just regurgitated because they are fellow travellers is harder to judge.
” I’ve been pushing underachievers like that out of my way for the last 30 years.”
Your pretensions of superiority are duly noted, and treated with all the seriousness they merit. I’m not sure what gives you the certainty that you’ve achieved more than those who are exposing what pass for your arguments, but given you’re just another in a long line of anonymous online keyboard warriors asserting things it can be safely assumed that reality and your assertions are two circles that intersect at no point in the Venn diagram of life.
Hatuey writes:
“People pay me for advice like that”
Maybes you are misinterpreting, Hatuey.
I bet people listen politely to your advice, then give you some money after extracting your promise that you will go away and leave them alone to think about it.
Must go. Got some underachieving to botch, then it’s The Sabbath the morn, and I still haven’t finished last week’s Sunday Post.
“I bet people listen politely to your advice, then give you some money after extracting your promise that you will go away and leave them alone to think about it.”
LOLZ. Chapeau sir…you win BTL comments today and by 9.09AM! With Hatuey and his like it’s less a case of the Emperor’s new clothes as them being the skid marks on the independence movement’s Calvin Kleins. 🙂
Sturgeon’s fanzine the National newspaper allowing a three-quarter page spread on attacking the real Scottish independence party Alba.
I haven’t read and saw so much BritNat propaganda since the 2014 indyref.
link to 12ft.io
The indy movement is radical, not NATO. The Indy movement is peace, not war. The indy movement is Salmond, not Sturgeon. The indy movement is people, not power.
Anyone that thinks we are going to give up on all that so that we can start world war three in defence of Ukraine — a country with exceptional racism and neo-nazi problems, a country that has done everything it could to provoke and antagonise its neighbour — hasn’t got a clue.
The world got by without a Ukraine for about 4 billion years… I’m sure we’ll manage a few more.
British State News:
“How to mainstream Neo-Nazi:
…why does Zelensky meet with multiple representatives of far-right groups — and, moreover, speak of them simply as “veterans,” discounting the vast majority of Ukraine’s veterans who have no involvement in extremist organizations? Why are there multiple members of far-right groups, including people who are openly neo-Nazi, on Ukraine’s Ministry of Veterans Affairs public oversight council? Despite the fact that these far-right organizations have negligible popular support and virtually nonexistent electoral power, they are over-represented among veterans’ rights groups, including in meetings directly with Ukraine’s President. As the veterans’ concert shows, these issues are symptoms of a much larger problem relating to the far-right’s exploitation of veterans’ issues as they continue to have success mainstreaming themselves in Ukrainian politics and society.”:
link to bellingcat.com
British mainstream news:
“…A 79-year-old Ukrainian great grandmother has signed up to civilian combat training to prepare to “defend” her family and home in case of a possible Russian invasion …Several of those training the civilians belong to the Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi group, but who are now integrated into the formal Ukraine military training civilians in first aid and basic weaponry.”:
link to itv.com
Tannadice knows what’s what;
“Anybody interested in the preservation of human life will hope for a swift Russian takeover. Minimum cost to life is my take. Then the real diplomacy can commence. Putin is a nutter but Nato are not without criticism. The MSM have been appalling in their reporting. “
Everything will be simpler and clearer when Ukraine is annexed.
As for Putin, he tried repeatedly to resolve this with diplomacy. Every time he did that, the US pumped in more arms and the Ukrainian army intensified its attacks on Russians in eastern Ukraine. That’s an old trick btw, designed to derail any hope of a peaceful settlement.
Putin’s decision to prioritise Chernobyl revealed him to be the only adult in the room. Had that fallen into the hands of the neo-nazi Ukrainian nationalists, God only knows what sort of toxic mess we’d be dealing with in the coming days and weeks. Take my word for it, those neo-nazis are a real and present danger in Ukraine, every bit as nuts and dangerous as ISIS crackpots.
I repeat, anyone that thinks we should give up our principles and lives to defend this lot, hasn’t got a clue. It’s like arguing we should end the world to save ISIS. In fact, it’s not like that at all — it is that.
link to gordondangerfield.com
THE FAIR PLAY FOR WOMEN DECISION: BATTLE LOST, WAR WON
@Hatuey 10.43 am
The indy movement comprises a range of people. To succeed it has to encompass more than those of radical politics, who are anti NATO and anti Sturgeon. The people you’re centring won’t get you close to 50% of the population, still less over it.
The Ukraine wants to be part of the EU and NATO. The President and Pm of the country are Jews. The fact it has a small minority of neo-nazis is no more of an argument against us supporting it than using the presence of Tommy Robinson and his ilk in the UK are an argument for people saying that’s an excuse for Russia to invade the UK to free the Scots.
The Russian Federation doesn’t get to dictate to any neighbouring country – particularly not one it has already attacked – what it is “allowed” to do. It shouldn’t need explaining to anyone who professes to be a Scottish nationalist or supporter of Scottish independence, that we’d never tolerate the UK trying to impose the same conditions on us post independence as Putin is trying to impose on Ukraine now. Nor could or should NATO ever accept Putin’s preposterous conditions for graciously allowing Ukrainian independence on his terms.
We’ve already seen the Russians threaten Finland and Sweden if they decide to join NATO, which is doubtless just hot air, but if Russian aggression isn’t faced down in Ukraine then Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Moldova and the central Asian republics could well be next.
Thankfully neither you nor the other Putinistas in here represent the wishes and desires of the majority, either of the Scottish people or the independence movement.
Great comment and links, Gregor.
All the smart people are coming out of the woodwork. The loud cowards are in retreat.
Of course, we can safely assume the US benefits by shit-stirring in Europe and driving a wedge between the EU and Russia. I suspect that’s what is really behind all this.
The economics of Russia and the EU fostering good relations don’t bode well for the failing disaster capitalists in Washington.
All of a sudden the indy movement wants to side with neo-nazis, join NATO, upgrade trident, and nuke Russia… according to Andy Ellis.
I’m wondering if more of us will die laughing at this than die will die in the nuclear exchange you’re planning…
Andy Ellis: “The President and Pm of the country are Jews.”
We aren’t interested in that stuff. Save it for your Ukrainian friends.
I question the sanity of posters who spends days on end arguing about the same topic with the same person.
What exactly do they hope to achieve?
“The Russian Federation doesn’t get to dictate to any neighbouring country”
Oh Christ spare me from this BS.
The Monroe Doctrine virtually tells other nations to stay out of South America its our backyard and we’ll regime change, murder and sabotage all of Latin and South America and if you get involved we’ll take action.
like I said Ellis you’re a fuckin hypocrite. As is your boss Fleming.
Republicofscotland says:
26 February, 2022 at 9:57 am
Sturgeon’s fanzine the National newspaper allowing a three-quarter page spread on attacking the real Scottish independence party Alba.
I just quickly scanned through that article.
He did say that Alba are taking a different stance to all other parties.
Does this mean that Hautey is on Alba’s side and Ellis is siding with Nicola?
@Hatuey 11.19 am
Please try to wipe the spittle from your eyes, clean the keyboard, and interact with what people actually say, not what you *wish* they said, OK?
However much you and others might not like it, the Scottish population, and thus the independence movement, are overwhelmingly Atlanticist in orientation. They are overwhelmingly likely to support NATO membership post independence too, as they are EU membership. Them’s the facts, and you screeching inchoately against them won’t render them less factual.
Nobody but you mentioned Trident. Again, the majority of Scots will probably support remaining in an alliance which has multilateralism at its core. Few in Scotland would tolerate Trident upgrades, or support the presence of Trident in an independent Scotland, but that’s an issue for after independence. Being non-nuclear won’t stop Scottish membership of NATO, any more than it stops other NATO members like Denmark and Spain being avowedly and legally against having nuclear weapons on their soil.
Nobody except Putinista assets is buying the “Ukraine is controlled by neo-nazis” schtick. Again, a lie, however often and assiduously repeated remains forever a lie. It doesn’t magically become true because you repeat it often enough or believe it fervently enough.
We’re no more or less likely to die in a nuclear exchange now than we were in the 1970’s or 80’s. It didn’t happen then, it won’t happen now. Conjuring the ghost of one just makes you look a bit…well…unhinged.
“Nobody except Putinista assets is buying the “Ukraine is controlled by neo-nazis” schtick. Again, a lie, however often and assiduously repeated remains forever a lie.”
I haven’t said that once.
But ultimately Nato is not the cause of this war. Putin himself has made it clear. To him, Ukraine is not a country. It simply does not have the right to self-determination because he sees it as part of Russia.
I do believe I heard something similar coming from ‘Project Fear’ during the 2014 Indy Ref.
The UK Gov hired lawyers at huge cost to the taxpayer to tell us that Scotland was not a country it hadn’t been a country since 1707 when it became lesser England.
It would be a hoot if the UK Gov went to war with Putin just because he believed in ‘Better Together’
@Putin’s Poodle 11.35 am
I’d be a hypocrite if I supported the Monroe Doctrine, but I don’t. Are you roasters all totally incapable of interacting with what people actually say, rather than what you’d have *liked* them to say?
Who on earth is Fleming?
link to archive.ph
My appeal to the Scottish Government to press pause on gender self-ID
Worth a read.
This thread is proof positive that Mr Bonkers & T.C.E. are …. well bonkers.
Who in their right mind would spend days on end arguing about the same topic with the same person?
Hopefully someone will come along and put a laxative in their cornflakes.
On the topic of whether or not the LibDems should allow their members to appear on the Alex Salmond Show.
I think they should although probably best to keep Alex Cole Hamilton well hidden.
Why do I think that.
Alex Salmond has a way of bringing out the best in people. When you see interviews with politicians on any other channel you usually think ‘what a wanker’ when you see them on ‘The Alex Salmond Show’ you think ‘he’s not so bad’
This happened with Vince Cable, David Davis & a number of other Unionist politicians who have appeared on his show.
I hope Alex Salmond doesn’t pay any attention to T.C.E. & his SNP pals and keeps broadcasting his show.
I’m off to check the ‘Alex Salmond Show’ archive for shows that I have missed & I may even give a lot of them a 2nd viewing.
From its foundation the US has been predatory, imperialist and given to ethnic cleansing.
The myths of the American West involved the latter on a grand scale. The territories of the south were war booty in conflict with Mexico or Spain. Hawaii was occupied and annexed against the will of the inhabitants. Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Philippines were «acquired» either by war or colonial expansion. The US operates according to its global interests, it does not disguise that. It will intervene wherever it sees a threat to those interests. The device it employs in that context is NATO.
There is a childlike naïveté about US foreign policy, it assumes all its actions are for the good, even when involving conflict by proxy. Any failure to grasp that is just wickedness and necessitates correction, by the euphemistically styled «régime change».
I can imagine a situation where Scotland, with the «wrong sort» of government, might at some time be exposed to that. England would naturally play the proxy rôle.
On the flagrant lie that Andy Ellis insulted the Wings readership with on NATO expansion to the east, there’s much evidence to the contrary;
“Not once, but three times, Baker tried out the “not one inch eastward” formula with Gorbachev in the February 9, 1990, meeting. He agreed with Gorbachev’s statement in response to the assurances that “NATO expansion is unacceptable.” Baker assured Gorbachev that “neither the President nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understood that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.” (See Document 6) “
link to nsarchive.gwu.edu
It isn’t even debatable.
“I’d be a hypocrite if I supported the Monroe Doctrine”
Ellis you’ve bent over backwards to defend the Great Satan (US) in here, you have done so since your remit was included to monitor this site, you might able to fool the odd soul in here but not me.
Ottoman: “There is a childlike naïveté about US foreign policy…”
They’d like us to believe that.
But, as Richard Sakwa pointed out; “NATO’s existence became justified by the need to manage threats provoked by its enlargement”.
France and Germany vetoed Ukrainian membership of NATO but it hasn’t stopped the US fanning the flames and doing everything it can to destabilise the region.
All of this chaos, then, stirred up on the basis that the US believes in the sovereignty of nation states above all else. Since nobody with the reading skills of a 5 year old could possibly take that seriously, I needn’t bother going though the blood-soaked historical record that proves otherwise.
Incidentally, if Scottish independence requires that we pander to this sort of crap, either before we get there or after, you can keep it. And actually, that being the case, there would be no point in having it anyway.
“Does this mean that Hautey is on Alba’s side and Ellis is siding with Nicola?”
Ruby.
Well, I think we all know whose side Ellis is on and its not Scottish independence, the same applies to Sturgeon.
So far Mr Bonkers is more convincing than T.C.E. however the big question is who is telling lies?
Does anyone have time to find out? If we did will it make any difference to our lives?
I’m suggesting in view of the fact that it’s so difficult to get to the truth its’s probably better to be a ‘don’t know’
Be a ‘don’t know’ but also be aware that you could be taken advantage of because you are a ‘don’t know’. Don’t just go latching onto Mr Bonkers or T.C.E. because you ‘don’t know’. Be a proud ‘don’t know’ it’s a lot more intelligent to be a ‘don’t know’ than to be a ‘think you know’
a ‘think you know best’
Anyone figured out why Mr Bonkers & T.C.E. have spend days on end arguing about the same topic here in Wings? What are they trying to achieve?
Is it all just a pissing contest?
What went wrong with bromance?
Correction:
What went wrong with the bromance?
If you are having problems being a ‘don’t know’ then perhaps you should ask yourself if you believe all human/sentient life is precious?
If you do then the answers is easy.
@Hatuey 2.03 pm
It’s a myth that there was ever any formal agreement with either the former Soviet Union or Russia not to expand NATO to the east. If there was such an agreement, Putin or his predecessors would be producing it as evidence. If he or they relied on verbal assurances, then they’re just not very bright.
When Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary joined NATO in 1999 there were no objections from Russia. Putin only started touting the myth about a guarantee after the Baltic States joined NATO.
References to the non-expansion of NATO trotted out by Putinistas refer to discussions between then US Secretary of State James Baker and Gorbachev in 1990, and refer to the USSR not to the Russian Federation. Even if the USSR did feel it had verbal agreements, they would apply to todays Russian Federation.
“NATO has never promised Russia not to expand eastwards. The supposed existence of such an agreement is based on informal conversations. In 1990, the US Secretary of State mentioned in a conversation with Gorbachev that NATO’s military jurisdiction would not be extended beyond Germany’s eastern border. Experts stress that this does not indicate that an agreement was reached, while the subject was never discussed afterwards. Moreover, this conversation, devoted exclusively to the unification of Germany, was between the US and the Soviet Union representatives, not those of NATO and Russia.”
link to lrt.lt
How reliable is Lithuanian MSM and who owns it?
It’s not just the Lithuanian MSM….it’s anyone sane and virtually all experts and people who’ve studied the matter. There was never any any agreement, Putin is just butt hurt that Gorbachev and Yeltsin got played and were stupid enough to take some airy comments and assurances that they wanted to hear as equivalent to a treaty obligation.
National Public Radio, a US not for profit organisation: link to npr.org
The Guardian:
link to theguardian.com
The Conversation (Australian not for profit):
link to theconversation.com
There are lots of other examples, and many quote the work of historian Mary Elise Sarotte in her book “Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of the Cold War Stalemate”. The Guardian piece sums up her take on the situation pretty well:
“…charts all the private discussions within the western alliance and with Russia over enlargement and reveals Russia as powerless to slow the ratchet effect of the opening of Nato’s door. The author concludes the charge of betrayal is technically untrue, but has a psychological truth.”
Putin’s whining is just a desire to turn back the clock and claim victimhood in a period when the Soviet Union had no options and no cards to play. The situation has changed of course largely because the West has pandered to Putin’s aggression, but it still doesn’t support his attempt to rewrite history.
Of course it’s no huge shock that the Putinistas and their low voltage claque in here would lap up the Kremlin’s agitprop and treat it as gospel. You can’t argue with faith based positions, and it’s pointless arguing with paid assets.
How reliable is the Guardian and who owns it?
Does T.C.E. know that ‘Mr Bonkers’ does not read newspapers?
*Other media and resources are available.
Google is your friend.
I know some of you have trouble reading without moving your lips, but I shouldn’t have to do all the work.
I have not trawled too far back on this thread however it is pleasing to note that we seem to have left behind the 300 year old treaty and daft Grand Committees.
However it is upsetting to see Scots on here trying to defend the actions of Putin and attempting to justify his naked aggression.
Hateuy, RoS etc you should be utterly ashamed at yourselves but…………….I know you won’t be.
Absolute scum.
Don’t expect me to reply to any response to this post. I would not waste my time responding to the likes of you.
This is about as desperate as one gets;
“References to the non-expansion of NATO trotted out by Putinistas refer to discussions between then US Secretary of State James Baker and Gorbachev in 1990, and refer to the USSR not to the Russian Federation.”
And just remember everybody, your lives and the lives of your families hinge on dishonest tricks like that. It’s on the basis of that dishonesty that we are about to go to war with Russia.
All because fuckwits like Andy Ellis aren’t able to make an honest living. We should crowdfund wages for the little running dog — what will it cost to retrieve you from the dark side, Andy? Would £25k per year shut you up? £35k?
“I know some of you have trouble reading without moving your lips, but I shouldn’t have to do all the work.”
Oh yes you do! If you don’t do all the work who else is going to?
You are on your own or haven’t you noticed?
Relax Mr Bonkers nobody is paying any attention to T.C.E. except you of course.
I agree people should watch out for dirty tricks especially those who fancy doing a bit of soldiering.
It has been suggested on Twitter that the OO boys should be the ones encouraged to sign up. They have already got the marching off pat, they are very comfortable in uniform and would be happy to die for queen & country.
Two birds, one stone.
Only risk for them is they could be re-incarnated and with their bad karma they might be re-born as Celtic supporting Catholics!
Andy Ellis says:
26 February, 2022 at 3:33 pm
It’s a myth that there was ever any formal agreement with either the former Soviet Union or Russia not to expand NATO to the east. If there was such an agreement, Putin or his predecessors would be producing it as evidence. If he or they relied on verbal assurances, then they’re just not very bright.
Those pesky myths again…
link to nationalinterest.org
@Breeks
LOLZ: the Center for National Interest….really? Set up by Tricky Dicky Nixon with Henry Kissinger still on the board? That’s your reputable source. Must try harder Breeks, truly it is to laugh. It’s saying exactly what I referred the hard of thinking to above: assurances *might* have been made verbally to get the Soviets to agree to German unification (and even that is disputed by those involved) but there was never anything formal.
The current Russian Federation leadership are just sore losers who haven’t gotten over the fact that Gorbachev and Yeltsin played a bad hand badly, and now they want to upend the table because things have changed. There isn’t a violin tiny enough….
@Hatuey 4.43 pm
Oh, I don’t come that cheap bud! I don’t need yours or anyone else’s money ta: fully employed and mortgage free, living my best life.
I see this as missionary work and a public service for the hard core of moon howlers in hope some might see sense, and just to ensure this place doesn’t close as an unalloyed bin fire which soils its reputation.
You’re welcome! 🙂
Just catching up with TV news and the solemn BBC coverage.
Protests and protestors matter, all of a sudden. We love all that sorta stuff, because we are democrats…. (Just stfu about Canada)
In a more dramatic change of BBC policy, the lives of innocent civilians now also matter. This is great news for the people of Palestine, Iraq, Syria, and Libya, to name but a few victims of our foreign policy.
Anyway, we are the good guys, well-meaning angels, but we can only do so much when it comes to facing down evil. All of this bad stuff just happens.
If only those evil Russians would let us plant more nukes on their border.
I’m following John Pilger
Latest tweet.
@johnpilger
News you won’t read. On Thursday, Putin reportedly offered peace if Ukraine embraced neutrality and rejected Nato’s arms. Ukraine’s president Zelensky was elected in 2019 largely by ethnic Russians on a platform to make peace with Russia.
How many converts has the ‘Missionary from the Cult’ managed?
Just Chas?
Putin know his history, particularly the very fluid history of the areas to Russia’s west. But then he is an old style, unamericanized European.
The Americans, ie their establishments, know the size of the appendage with which they are prepared to shaft their enemies, and their «friends». In the MidEast we are graphic in describing the activities of such «groomers». we have been «had» often enough.
No golden visas for Ukrainian refugees!
That famous Bob Dylan song has been going through my head all day.
To such an extend I nearly typed
“And you never ask questions
When Chas’s on your side”
@Ruby 6:25pm
That’s a good post Ruby.
@Tannadice Boy 7.43 pm
It’s also bullshit. Zelensky actually did best in central and southern regions of the Ukraine, and worst in the east.
His LOWEST vote shares were from the parts of Donetsk and Lugansk not occupied by Russian nationalists and neo-nazis, (i.e. the most ethnically Russian parts of the Ukraine) and from the most Ukrainian nationalist parts of western Ukraine (Ivano-Frankovsk, Lviv and Ternopil).
His highest vote shares were from his home region in the south (Krivoy Rih and the surrounding Dnipropetrovsk Region) and in central Ukraine, particularly Kyiv.
There’s a useful breakdown with maps here from the Washington Post comparing the 2010 and 2019 elections.
Also worth pointing out that Zelensky won twice as many votes as Poroshenko in the 1st Round (30% to 15%, with 13% going to Yulia Timoshenko, whose vote was concentrated in the west and heavily ethically Ukrainian). In the second round, Zelensky won with 73% to Poroshenko’s 24%).
So Zelensky won by appealing to both groups, but particularly by being a bridge between the ethnically more Ukrainian west and ethnically more Russian east, taking the more populous central and south. It’s just not accurate to say he won largely on the back of ethic Russian votes.
The Post article puts it pretty well:
“Zelensky ran as neither a pro-Russian nor an explicitly nationalist candidate. While Zelensky primarily spoke Russian during his campaign, he underscored the importance of Ukrainian-language education for future generations. Zelensky also proposed direct negotiations with Russia over its occupation of Crimea and ending the separatist conflict in the East, but eschewed abandoning these regions.
Instead of emphasizing the war or language issues, Zelensky put out a reform agenda. He proposed simplifying the bureaucracy and tax code, attracting investment, prosecuting corruption and reining in the country’s oligarchic class, while also pushing for eventual membership in NATO and the European Union.”
link to washingtonpost.com
@Andy Ellis 10:04pm
I was encouraging Ruby and the debate in general. I admire your admiration for Zelensky. So there has not been a failure of communication. There has been no diplomatic failure. And yet we stand on the edge of WW3. Something is not right Andy. Here is my prediction. Ukraine will fall within the next 36 hours. And if wise heads prevail then we will get to some real negotiations. Madelleine Allbrights speech to NATO 25 years ago set the direction of travel. The Russians have put a full stop to that. Just be thankful that Ukraine is not part of Nato. Otherwise we would be burnt toast under Artivle 5.
@johnpilger
News you won’t read. On Thursday, Putin reportedly offered peace if Ukraine embraced neutrality and rejected Nato’s arms.
Is this or is it not bullshit?
How would we know?
Will the ‘Washington Post’ give us the answer?
Would you trust the ‘Washington Post’ to give you the answer?
Who owns the Washington Post?
It’s amazing there are posters on Wings who post newspaper articles as evidence of the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Was the lesson from Stu not that we should seriously question what is written in newspapers?
Zelensky’s videos are suspicious. If he’s in Kiev, why isn’t he showing his face at any of the bomb sites? It’s as if he shot a bunch of videos a few days before he fled.
Don’t be fooled, Ellis spent about 8 minutes reading about Zelensky and now he is pretending he’s an expert. It’s top trolling.
I don’t have a view on Zelensky, you’ll be glad to know. I know almost nothing about him. There’s a reason for that — he is a zero in the great scheme of things.
If Zelensky was even an okay politician, he’d have told Britain and America to keep their consignments of arms. They set him up with that stuff, and set all Ukraine up too. Their goal and concern wasn’t to help Ukraine defend itself; their goal was to bait the Russian bear.
Mission accomplished. Good luck with the bear.
Don’t be fooled, Ellis spent about 8 minutes reading about Zelensky and now he is pretending he’s an expert. It’s top trolling.
The question is why is he doing this?
@Tannadice Boy 11.16 pm
“Just be thankful that Ukraine is not part of Nato. Otherwise we would be burnt toast under Artivle 5.”
Well no, if Ukraine was already a NATO member Putin wouldn’t have invaded in the first place. If he really felt Article 5 meant nothing, Russian troops would already be in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
Ruby wouldn’t know debate if it hit her in the arse. It seems obvious Putin’s gamble that he could decapitate the Ukrainian leadership and install the kind of people some of the Putinistas in here would approve of has failed. That leaves him with a huge problem: a rising body count, international pariah status for Russia, growing economic problems for his people and continuing military support to the Ukraine from the west could encourage saner heads in the Kremlin to decide Putin should be replaced.