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The unfinal countdown

Posted on August 07, 2021 by

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    739 to “The unfinal countdown”

    1. Socrates MacSporran says:

      A bit optimistic Chris. I fear The Great Leader will throw-in another two or three “Aye Buts” before we can get to Indyref 2.

    2. holymacmoses says:

      When did she mention Indyref2 Mr Cairns?
      Was I sleeping?
      OR
      Were you dreaming?

    3. Robert Louis says:

      Haha, so very, very true. If we just keep voting for the lovely nickla, then mibbes we’ll get indyref?? Aye right. The lady is a fraud. Their will be NO independence with the SNP in government. To the current SNP, independence is just an irritant.

      The SNP and its current leader are now the biggest obstacle to independence.

    4. Tackety Beets says:

      -5 ……….there is no -5

      Scunnert

      There is no “hope” in my hert…………..well mibbee aat Pittodrie aats aboot it.

    5. Breeks says:

      The longer she stays in power, the more work and rehabilitation will be needed to resurrect any YES Campaign and get Independence back on the front foot, because you can be sure Indy will be suffering a downward trend by the time Sturgeon gets the boot. Her work will be done and the cause split asunder.

      She has wrecked the SNP, betrayed Independence, divided the YES movement in acrimony, and the damage she has done to Scotland is incalculable and will endure.

      The worst of Labour, which for decades took Scotland for granted, has been reincarnated as Sturgeon’s crooked SNP, blinded by the same arrogance, entitlement, and hubris, and on the same trajectory to suffer the same fate.

      It doesn’t matter what share of the vote ALBA is getting, keep investing in ALBA. Come the day, it will be the only lifeboat Scottish Independence has in the water.

    6. 100%Yes says:

      I have really got to the point where I can’t listen to Lesley Riddoch and her view on Nicola Sturgeon and her admiration of her running the country, listening to her on Independence live to be honest was the last time I’ll listen to Lesley Riddoch or her views.

      There seems to be a lot of journalist & bloggers supporting Independence and making a career out of it without actually ever want to push any comments of why we aren’t actually Independent now or criticize the SG lack of progress of a referendum and their dreadful handling of running the country and to praise Sturgeon handling of covid is appalling, I suppose the reason is if we where Independent now what would be these individuals career involve or what would they talk about.

      I thought listening to this Lesley Riddoch she wants Sturgeon to be in charge and she happy with sturgeon running the country and very little progress on Independence.

      I fail to see any benefit at all in not planning for a referendum and if you’re not planning for one you have no intention of holding referendum now or in the future.
      This was my take on listening to the chat on Independence live its only my view, but I don’t know what other thought.

    7. Ruby says:

      World peace before IndyRef2.

      ‘Sheher’ has IndyRef2 pencilled in on the 12th of Never.

    8. Pixywine says:

      No one in the SNP wants Independence. There’s only one way to freedom and the spirit to achieve that does not exist anywhere in Scotland.

    9. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 8.14 am

      Seconded. Alba’s task in the short to medium term is to ensure it holds a mirror up to the SNPs shameful gradualism and its politically tin-eared support for deeply unpopular and regressive policies like the HCB, self-ID and jailing journalists. The ultimate aim must be to hold the balance of power in upcoming elections, which is a realistic target.

      We can safely leave the Nicola cultists to their delusion that #indyref2 is coming in the first half of this Holyrood parliament. We just need to set the stage to pick up the support and votes of those who desert the failing SNP when the scales fall from their eyes.

      In truth we have until the next Holyrood election. We have to prioritise establishing a strong alternative platform, build grass roots support and target both constituency and list seats: that’s the only way we’ll have a change of holding the balance of power and holding the SNPs feet to the fire. With luck Sturgeon and her cadres will be toppled from power by her own party, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it: we’ve seen how the SNP hierarchy ignores rank and file members, subverts the NEC and is captured by extremist entryism.

    10. Stoker says:

      Andy Ellis says on 7 August, 2021 at 8:55 am:

      “We can safely leave the Nicola cultists to their delusion that #indyref2 is coming in the first half of this Holyrood parliament.”

      Has anyone actually got an archived quote of Sturgeon saying/promising this? I too have this in my head but if i’m forced to think about it i can’t ever recall seeing a real quote from her.

    11. Ian says:

      TINA Sturgeon. This is what Scotland has come to.

    12. robertknight says:

      Sorry Chris, but you missed one out…

      -6 Mars attacks

    13. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice one Chris, though I don’t think an indyref is even on the board to be honest.

      Meanwhile the man with the tweed waistcoat Mike Russell is at it again in the National newspaper today, this time he’s waxing lyrical about how bad the union, David Cameron, Boris Johnson and even Tony Blair is, as if we didn’t already know this.

      Tell us something we don’t know Mike, such as how is your plan on making Scotland independent that you must present to the SNP conference next month coming along, or is that too difficult.

      On the Vogue magazine saying that Sturgeon is one of the twenty-five most influential women in the UK, the magazine also calls Ruth Davidson a beacon, thanks to her progressive ideas, at least they have a sense of humour at the magazine.

    14. Ruby says:

      Is there anything left to say about Nicola Sturgeon or Boris Johnson?

      Could we discuss the following or is that too hot a topic.
      Do you agree that the Courier were right to “removed the ability for readers to comment on the story”

      https://archive.is/XlKOA

      “It’s a sobering claim – at odds with the inclusive country that many of us like to imagine we inhabit.

      But soon the racist statements started seeping on to The Courier’s social media channels.

      The slurs were so venomous, and arriving with such frequency, that we removed the ability for readers to comment on the story.”

    15. Ruby says:

      robertknight says:
      7 August, 2021 at 9:36 am
      Sorry Chris, but you missed one out…

      -6 Mars attacks

      Reply

      Would Mars attacks not be -5 with IndyRef at -6?

      What about volcanic eruption? Are we sure the Arthur’s Seat volcano is extinct?

    16. sarah says:

      @ Pixywine at 8.55: “There’s only one way to freedom and the spirit to achieve that does not exist anywhere in Scotland”.

      The spirit to work for freedom is alive and well all over Scotland. It is one person who is stopping that will being expressed. It was so simple – all the SNP Leader and FM needed to do was call the May election a plebiscite.

    17. John H. (The original one) says:

      History will judge Sturgeon harshly, for she has betrayed Scotland’s people, particularly those of us who put so much trust in her.

    18. Zander Tait says:

      The Sturge asks “Any questions?”

      No matter the question, the answer will always be, “I don’t know, I can’t remember and I wasn’t there”.

      It’s the Murrell Defense.

    19. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sarah 9.59 am

      As baleful an influence as the FM undoubtedly is on both the movement and her party, she’s only the flag bearer. Concentrating the fire and the blame on one personality – however influential – is in my view misguided. There’s plenty of blame to go around.

      Let’s not forget that she’s supported by a cadre of ultra loyal apparatchiks who show every indication of being effectively a personality cult.

      More worrying perhaps is the fact that the rank and file membership of the SNP have proven remarkably indifferent to their organisational and political emasculation. They have acquiesced – if not actively participated – in the process.

      Finally Scottish Yes supporters more generally bear part of the responsibility for the present bourach: we were slow to realise that the SNP was failing the cause, and slow to react once that became obvious.

      A plebiscitary election was indeed possible in May 2021, just as it will be in 5 years time. Sadly, the minority pushing for that outcome were by and large scorned by the movement as a whole as well as the SNP and Greens. The only rational alternative is to ensure we have a party ready to push hard for it happening at the next election.

    20. willie says:

      To quote a prior phrase but the rocks will melt with the sun before Sturgeon delivers a referendum.

      But thankfully a rigged referendum to dent Scots their independence is not the only route to independence. Far from it sovereignty of the people and international treaty are mechanisms that will deliver.

      And yes, the establishment will if needed use guns against us. That is the British colonial way if all else fails. Political jailings, media suppression, fake news, kompromat, are currently all part of the establishment game – but we can secure independence.

      And Sturgeon she can fuck off with her bit on the side and her creep of a husband. She may have caused damage to stop the march to independence but she and her establishment masters will not succeed.

      Good cartoon Chris – We need to get Sturgeon gone.

    21. Gordon Currie says:

      John H.

      Hopefully she gets judged harshly by the courts long before that, when the truth comes to light!

      How ironic would that be…..

    22. Muscleguy says:

      @Ruby
      The Dundee Law volcano looks geologically younger than Arthur’s seat. Walked up it yesterday with Dundee CND to commemorate Hiroshima day. At least this year we got to celebrate the TPNW coming into force which UKGov is in breach of. ScotGov will be too if ‘Multilateralism’ means what we think it means.

      If we become independent and we allow Trident to remain we too will be in breach of the TPNW. Countries will then blackball our application to join the UN until such time as either it is gone or a firm, soon timetable for removal is locked in.You cannot join the UN if you are in majory breach of agreed UN law.

      I wonder if our failed lawyer FM has thought this one through.

    23. Robert Hughes says:

      ” And I would like to offer that choice in the first half of this term of our parliament, which is, you know, by the end of 2023. And we’ll judge within that when the best time to offer that choice is. ”

      Sturgeon of the Forked Tongue .

      What degree of damage will have been inflicted on Scotland by ” the end of 2023 ” ?

      Inflicted not only by the UK State and it’s enforcers – the Internal Market assault alone will be devastating – also by the irredeemable corruption and authoritarian will-to-power of the Sturgeon regime , whose actions will have turned even more people against the aspiration to Independence – ” If this is what Independence will be like I don’t want it ”

      Also , the end of 2023 will be conveniently not far from the next H.E : we’ll almost certainly be hearing how the polls are not showing 99% support for Indy , a wee man in Stornaway still has Covid , the shamans @ the National say the Spirits tell them ” now is not the time ” , and their tea leaves augurs confirm this .Any and every excuse for delay . ONE MORE MANDATE and we’re on our way .

      ALBA are our only hope – short of the removal of Sturgeon and the poisoned well she has created- and must be supported to the maximum degree

    24. sarah says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 10.07: “concentrating the blame… on one personality.. is misguided”.

      I was talking about the literal power:

      1. the leader of the SNP’s role is defined in the SNP constitution as ” the leader decides the political direction of the party”.

      2. the FM decides what happens at Holyrood.

      So literally there is only one person who can set us free – the leader and FM of the majority party.

      And she is producing barriers instead. Supported by the whole MSP group and disgusting party officials.

    25. Gary45% says:

      Great “toon” Chris.
      Tackety Beets@7.39
      -5 Ye beat me tae it loon.

    26. Mac says:

      https://www.rt.com/op-ed/531266-scottish-education-social-engineering/

      Indoctrination instead of education. Going after your kids now… why am I not surprised.

      Sturgeon’s Government really is a rather sinister machine.

      There are no limits it seems on what ‘they’ are doing in Scotland post 2014. It is full spectrum as well.

      Woke politics is a vehicle for achieving something very sinister. You can sense it. I think the authour of this blog knows it too hence the interest in exposing it. Just my guess…

      Scotland seems to be totally captured. I am really starting to wonder where all this is heading now. Are we the guinea pigs…

      I feel that increasingly we are being maneuvered into a very dangerous situation regarding our civil liberties. All of this crap is heading somewhere and I am almost certain it is not a good place. I am fearful of my own government at this point.

      I think here we are seeing a concerted attempt to breakdown our sense of Scottishness. Bit by bit they are going after everything that led us to vote YES.

      I think the plan is to weaponize immigration as well and just dilute the nationalists down. Sturgeon was extremely keen to get that devolved and tried already. No coincidence. The SNP talks about ‘ethnic nationalists’ now as if they are utter racist scumbags.

      At first I thought they had lost their minds when they went after Salmond but now I think something really scared them in 2014. Since then it has been a non stop attack and all led from within, our very ‘own’. Again why am I not surprised…

      Worrying times.

    27. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If we know nothing else, it’s that things change, right? It’s natural and inevitable. Call it evolution, revolution, whatever you like, but it can’t be avoided indefinitely.

      Then you turn on the radio, and if you happen to be in Scotland, and you’re tuned into the ‘national’ station on a Saturday morning, it’s as if the past decade simply didn’t happen. Shereen, with the usual guests. The ‘news’ itself presented by the same voices. The ‘sport’ and weather, ditto.

      The major difference from, say 2012/13, is that ‘independence’ is barely mentioned. But who could blame them, given that the governing party doesn’t seem interested in it either? Radio Scotland has turned into Radio GetYerJag, with output over the past 18months almost entirely Covid-focussed.

      We’re all too close to see ‘change’ happening in real-time, but it is happening. It must be. The State broadcasters keeping the cork in, with the approval of the Scottish and UK govts, is only increasing the pressure. None of us know when that cork will pop, but it’s getting closer every day.

      Not much to celebrate perhaps, but we have to take whatever we can right now.

    28. Dan says:

      “Sic a parcel of carrot danglers and carrot addicts in a nation…”

      I thought carrots were meant to help folk see clearly, but now beginning to think exposure to all that orange is instead turning folk into goldfish, content to swim round in circles in a small bowl going nowhere.

    29. Hatuey says:

      Ruby: “It’s a sobering claim – at odds with the inclusive country that many of us like to imagine we inhabit.”

      If Scotland has a problem with racism, you’re more likely to find it amongst those who wave Union Jacks than those who wave Saltires.

      It’s British racism in Scotland that’s the problem. Take that away and there’s not much to speak of.

    30. Pixywine says:

      Sarah. What use is the “spirit” that wants to be led?

    31. Pixywine says:

      “Shameful gradual ism” was Alec Salmonds approach to Independence, for years.

    32. J.o.e says:

      @Mac

      It has the fingerprints of Bolshevik style tyranny. From the critical theory type of underlying philosophy, to the use of foreigners as weapons, to the false ‘equality’ drive. It’s all been seen before

      Bolshevism is the tyranny they do not educate you about because it suddenly starts to make the entire first half of the 20th century make sense and puts where we are into its proper context.

    33. Pixywine says:

      Muscle guy. I hope your gathering on Dundee Law doesn’t turn out to be a “superspreader” event. And do you mind awfully if people have anti lockdown protests? It’s funny how approved protests aren’t a threat to public health but anti Government protests are.
      As for dropping 2 atom bombs on Japan if you’re a Government facing fanatical resistance in a country covered in mountainous terrain you know you’re going to sustain high casualties. So. In war who would you prefer to die. Your men or the enemy? A no brainer as they say.

    34. Pixywine says:

      Hatuey. When my dad came to Scotland in the 1940s he encountered prejudice from a lot of Scots. Prejudice racism nativism happens in all countries all societies also there’s a sliding scale of it. You blame the “British” as if it doesn’t happen elsewhere.

    35. Hatuey says:

      An apologist for British racism and anti-vax…

      Nobody could accuse you of playing to the crowd on here, pixy.

    36. stonefree says:

      @ Ruby at 9:45 am

      Consider this , Humza Yousaf’s wife has with the “party” created a false narrative,
      She was a candidate ,was she not.
      It’s surprising that there are no big shouts of “submissions to the Police”
      Do they actually exist?
      The back-up of “Me Aswell” from Allan Dorans a Sturgeon loyalist , seems questionable.
      This is in line with tactics that Yousaf that I believe has been at the center of before.

      It is clearly some delusional idea that the SNP weaponise anything to get the pictures in the paper and an article printed in the MSM.
      If folk look at who are making the complaints, it seems it’s a core of the SNP and the cult

    37. Robert Graham says:

      Very surprised Indyref2 is a high on her list

      Doubly surprised its even made any list

      Single handily the best agent the British establishment has ever put in place she and her inner circle have managed to stop and even reverse people’s appetite to be free from English rule .

      No she’s no a failure she has accomplished exactly what she was put in place to do , a long term asset better known as a sleeper our very own Manchurian Candidate

      It’s amazing the English establishment being so scared of a Independent Scotland that they would go to such lengths to keep a whole nation under arrest well then again they have been doing this sort of stuff for hundreds of years we on the other hand are rank amateurs total novices

    38. Mac says:

      Tyranny by tranny Joe.

      We are increasingly all living in some deeply dystopian Dick Emery sketch from which we cant wake up.

    39. Robert Graham says:

      Aye at it again hatauy

      Tossing around the well used Anti Vax shite to close down any discussion , well Governments are being presented with FOI requests in many countries to identify this wee virus bugger

      And these Governments are at a loss because so far the plague hasn’t been cornered and identified as there is the wee bugger that causing the problem and they can’t add their names to something that they haven’t identified and based all their emergency legislation on. , all these restrictions are based on False hearsay meant to scare the shit out of the public ,its a fkn con job

    40. Shauny Boy says:

      Its alright gang, Indyref2 is set in stone for the 32nd of Julember.

    41. Gary45% says:

      -5 Messi signs a 20 year contract with Fishcross Miners Welfare Fc.
      -6 The right-wing gutter press get wiped off the face of the earth.
      -7 Bush & Bliar share a cell with Clown-show and Trump.
      -8 The Tories start to tell the truth.
      -9 Clown-show apologises.
      -10 The current SNP grow a backbone.
      -11 America and Britain finally admit that is was all about oil and not WMDs
      -12 We finally find out the use for a Wullie Rennie.
      -13 Sorry, I still can’t see an Indy Ref2 on the horizon.
      Apologies for the controversial comment in No-5 “20 year contract!!” No real chance of that happening.
      Shauny Boy@11.55
      Good one.

    42. Pixywine says:

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/ht2P8cBhNB2G/
      Are we being virtually hoodwinked?

    43. Pixywine says:

      The 32nd of Julember? Is that not the Dear Leader Minge the Merciless birthday?

    44. Pixywine says:

      Hatuey. So you’re saying is it’s alright to despise the Irish?

    45. Pixywine says:

      Mac. We had our civil liberties removed in March 2020. Waiting for their return with permits and strings attached seems to be the way to deal with flu.

    46. crazycat says:

      @ Muscleguy at 10.16

      The Dundee Law volcano looks geologically younger than Arthur’s seat.

      Are you sure about that? A quick search reveals the following:

      Dundee Law is Devonian (400-415 million years old)
      (https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/corporate-services/democratic-and-legal-services/dundee-law).

      Arthur’s Seat is Lower Carboniferous (335-341 million years old)
      (https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/GeositesArthursSeat).

      Neither is in danger of erupting, of course.

    47. Mist001 says:

      I’m not happy. I’ve had to book an appointment for a vaccine. I didn’t want the vaccine but because Covid has allowed fascism to sneak in by the back door, I’m forced to get a vaccine although officially, I’m not being forced, I’m making my own choice.

      In France, you can’t do fuck all unless you’ve had the vaccine. No museums, no galleries, no restaurants and soon, it’ll be no shops and no transport.

      Mark my words, this is coming to Scotland in the near future. You WILL have a choice but you’ll have no choice other than to get the vaccine eventually.

      Welcome to the New World Order.

    48. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Dunno about embdy else, but I’m very much looking forward to Hatuey’s take on vertical drinking and maskless dancing.

    49. Milady says:

      This is brilliant. Heartbreakingly spot on.

    50. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mist001 12.40 pm

      You do have a choice. You can choose not to be vaccinated and not do all the things vaccinated people are allowed to do.

      Why should the tin foil hat wearing flat earthers expect to get to do exactly what they want?

      Like the majority of the population I’m intensely relaxed about the anti-vaxxer fringe doing their Darwin Award thing and refusing the vaccine, but I’m damned if I’ll let their modern day know-nothingism put everyone else at risk.

    51. Mist001 says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      “You do have a choice. You can choose not to be vaccinated and not do all the things vaccinated people are allowed to do.”

      Here we are Laydeez ‘n’ Gennlemen, an open supporter of fascism.

      I have no idea who this Andy Ellis is, or what he’s about. Is he an independence supporter? He seems like an arse to me.

    52. Derek says:

      robertknight says:
      7 August, 2021 at 9:36 am

      -6 Mars attacks

      Nae problem; got my Slim Whitman records to hand!

    53. Robert Hughes says:

      ” tin foil hat wearing flat earthers ” , you forgot your usual go-to insults Mr Ellis ie * Blood n Soil Nativists *

      Seems to me you’re not that ” intensely relaxed ” about anything other people have a different opinion about : rather , you’re extremely uptight about such

      Surprising that an obviously intelligent man like yourself has always to resort to denigration and slur to make a point and has no problem – no doubt is ” pretty sanguine ” about- massive infringements on people’s liberties and has no concern whatsoever about where this assault is leading .

      Maybe you still believe in the fiction that once everyone and their dog is vaccinated things will go back to normal , laws brought in under the supposed * State of Emergency * will automatically disappear and we can all live happily ever after .

      I wish I had your confidence that would be the case . I don’t

    54. Hugh Jarse says:

      People struggle with the meaning of the word ‘fascism’.
      Struggle no more, see Andy Ellis 12.40pm.
      Cunt. Grade A1.

    55. Hatuey says:

      Robert Graham: “so far the plague hasn’t been cornered and identified”

      You are actually suggesting the virus doesn’t exist. And you’re offended because I used to the term “anti-vax”.

      My god. You really are documentary material, i.e. documentary nuts.

      I can’t imagine what it must be like waking up to a world where millions of doctors and nurses are part of an elaborate scam, where millions of sick and dead people are faking it, where whole economies are closed down, etc., etc., all on the basis of a bogus virus that doesn’t exist.

      Mr. Brotherhood, my take on it is boring and predictably in line with everything else I’ve said. If people are double vaccinated, and the majority are, they can take part in these things.

      As we go into the autumn the argument for vaccine passports will gather force. Right now I don’t think they’re necessary. About 90% of the adult population has antibodies that work right now.

    56. BLMac says:

      I find it hard to believe Sturgeon is an agent of the english state.

      What I do wonder about is what filth do they have on her for her to have become so submissive.

    57. James Che. says:

      Robert graham.

      Wanting to keep Scotland in the union, is Anglo-American.
      This becomes obvious as a beacon when looking at parallel leadership placement of dopey puppet leaders,
      And strategies of knocking out the people we chose to represent us, and in similar use along with attacks on free speech of journalists, incarcerations by hit jobs.
      In fact it may be bold to assume the Anglo side may also be worked by strings.

      Bojo trying to hold the union together of late means they are worried and are thinking of ways in advance to bring a grinding halt to independence,
      One of the first prime minsters to be seen crossing the border so many times in one century.
      Even on a strange tent like journey.

      Scotland is strategically geologically placed in the world for war manoeuvres,.
      Although bojo is keeping his hand on oil, coal etc, it is not as important as war games.

      The issues of us gaining our country as independent is not going to be achieved through any normal routes or recognised conventions,
      It is not going to be by marches,
      It is not going to be by referendums,
      It’s not going to come via the SNP.
      It will not be by the Scottish goverment.
      It will be by the people in a non violent manner when they are ready to accept. All of the following

      1) their sovereignty right first,
      2) their human rights,
      3) the right to self determination.
      4) the declaration of Arbroath as a legal piece of history,
      5) the claim of right still in position today.

      However with this must come the knowledge that to find a route to the sovereignty of ones country,
      It has to start with the people,
      it has to be yearned for as if in mourning, for the loss of someone loved so much you want them back, Do any of us here miss our country that much?

      It has to come from the heart, rather than relegated solely to the head. That’s why the marches worked and gained momentum
      And it has to come with and through the people putting their differences aside to avoid globalism of Scotland.not bystanders.

      If I were a troll here trying to stop Scotlands people gaining independence,
      I would be looking over my shoulder to see what they were doing to me long term or the country I called home, for this is not solely about Scotland for them. It is about them and their families sovereignty being stolen from them just as much around the nearest corner,
      Sometimes it is best not to try invading your neighbours home While you’re own home next door is under attack.
      It is no longer about Scotland v England.
      It is governments v people all over the world.

      There is a way to do this, without violence or marches but I will hold my tongue until people are ready recognise their sovereignty and the love they can show to their fellow man.
      NS would not politically survive and I doubt the infiltrators would,

    58. Fred says:

      Robert Hughes@ 1:14pm

      We’ll said Sir. Unfortunately Mr Ellis’s words only echo how in fear and thus myopic society has become, and certainly demonstrates how easy that was to achieve.
      A country that gave the entire world the Enlightenment, now wholly unable to think for itself.

    59. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says
      In France, you can’t do fuck all unless you’ve had the vaccine. No museums, no galleries, no restaurants and soon, it’ll be no shops and no transport.

      Reply

      Are all the museums, galleries, restaurants, shops, transport providers owned by fascists?

      Why are you concerned with Andy Ellis when you live surrounded by people you deem to be fascist.

      Sounds like people like yourself are very much a minority in France.

    60. Hatuey says:

      Maybe the anti-vax mindset is a virus of sorts, one that spreads in the world of ideas amongst those with weak and susceptible dispositions.

      In this model, common sense, aversion of death, and sanity serve as a sort of immune system.

      Science and the light of understanding serve as antiviral treatments and vaccines.

      There’s a few people here who are probably too far gone to be saved, but I’m not giving up on them. If only there was some means by which we could disinfect their crazed minds.

    61. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      7 August, 2021 at 12:40 pm
      I’m not happy. I’ve had to book an appointment for a vaccine. I didn’t want the vaccine but because Covid has allowed fascism to sneak in by the back door, I’m forced to get a vaccine although officially, I’m not being forced, I’m making my own choice.

      Reply

      Who would want Mist001 in your fight against fascism?

      He wouldn’t have lasted long in the French Resistance.

    62. Hatuey says:

      Mist and others are clearly struggling with the responsibility of being free, having free will, and the decisions they make. I believe they call this existential nausea.

      Nobody is forcing anyone to get vaccinated, not here or anywhere. You have the choice and the right not to be vaccinated.

      Try and follow this part, it’s important; just as you have the right not to do certain things, others too have rights. Some of the rights others have include the right to keep anti-vax crackpots out of their airspace.

      You can’t force us to socialise with you. You can’t force us to sit next to you in restaurants and bars. You can’t force us to give you platforms on the web, TV, newspapers, etc.

      Get it?

    63. crazycat says:

      Another bit of relatively good news – it might be more appropriate on the previous thread, but I’ll put it here for those who have moved onto this one:

      https://twitter.com/HamishRasputin/status/1423957701722263554

    64. Republicofscotland says:

      Speaking of the vaccine, Australia is second bottom of OECD countries on vaccinations, not because it doesn’t want to vaccinate its people but because it won’t use the Astrazeneca vaccine, it wants the Pfizer one, claiming blood clots are caused the Astrazeneca vaccine.

      Australia is the tip of the Great Satan’s spear (USA) when it come to goading China, Australia has already lost million in revenue after China stopped importing beef from Australia, makes you wonder then on the lousy Westminster/Australia trade deal.

      Ever since Gough Whitlam was removed as Aussie PM by the CIA and the British monarchy, Australia, has been a compliant USA/UK client state, and the USA’s main objective for Australia is to try and limit China’s exports to the country at the behest of Washington.

      Strangely though the USA has millions of doses of the Pfizer vaccine ready to go out of date, and Australia, a Five Eyes state, has asked president Biden for them but he’s reluctant to be seen to be giving them to a relatively rich country, when he promise them to less fortunate ones.

    65. Ottomanboi says:

      With gurus like this where could we go wrong.
      https://www.weforum.org/videos/this-is-what-the-fight-against-covid-19-can-teach-us-about-stopping-climate-change-according-to-bill-gates
      Sturgeon’s a big fan of the Big I Am.
      Politicians’ll suck anything for an ego fix and the supine electorate has sawdust for brains for stoking their vanity.

    66. Republicofscotland says:

      Crazycat.

      That’s good news about Murray.

      This also from your thread, Ministers are destroying or “losing” their mobile phones (not just in the UK) to stop them facing prosecution.

      This is drug gang/dealers tactics, where burner phones are used and disposed of.

      https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1423553842256519168

    67. Republicofscotland says:

      Ottomanboi.

      The US military machine with its over eight-hundred plus bases around the globe creates more greehouse gases than small nations such as Denmark and Portugal.

      Its claimed that one B52 Strato-fortress bomber can use as much fuel as a car uses in seven years, and with Biden increasing the USA’s military budget close to a trillion dollars, we only expect the Great Satan’s war machine to pump out more and more greenhouse gases.

    68. twathater says:

      Testing

    69. James Che. says:

      Hatuey.
      We may not want to sit next to you either because you are still a carrier and transmitter of the virus,
      And for those of us whom are already ill, and cannot take the vaccine, you could be lethal, think of all those children who are ill you could kill.

      I hope you remember to wash your hands wear you’re mask, disinfectant your shoes and clothes before each building you enter, to stop transmission in the same way they did for foot and mouth.

    70. Muscleguy says:

      @Pixywine
      We were pretty well distanced both on the walk and the gathering up top. There was also a decent wind blowing though the rain held off.

    71. James Che. says:

      RepublicofScotland.

      And that is why the green deal does not make sense, if governments are not trustworthy in actions following their words.
      If they do not stop harbouring nuclear weapons of mass destruction.
      Like they accused Iraq of.
      Or building warships,
      these actions by governments around the world defy how genuine Or serious they are in going green on a very large scale
      Just as much as the leaders of our countries moving around from country to country in meetings, including climate change meetings, as they admitted themselves you can still carry the virus even with having two vaccines,
      Bringing in new variants such as the meeting they held which included those that later tested positive for the Indian variant into Britain.

      Do they hope and prey we are blind, stupid and deaf, actions speak louder than words in reality.

    72. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Hughes 1.14 pm

      It never takes long for the fringe nutters to out themselves. anyone who disagrees with them or calls them out for their unreason is a “fascist” or “not a real independence supporter”. They don’t even have the wit to look at the rest of the things people say which prove exactly the opposite of course, because that would involve wiping the spittle from their eyes.

      Nobody is trying to stop you mouthing your anti-vaxx nonsense, or stifle debate or shut you down. Much like debating with actual racists and fascists, I prefer that pushers of a-scientific unreason and conspiracy theories are out in the open. It makes it much easier to point at them and laugh at their inanities.

      There will be a new normal. Covid isn’t going away, but we will learn to cope with it and control it better. Most reasonable people have always – and will continue to – accept that there are times when some of our individual liberties have to be curtailed for the common good. If enough people agreed with you, then they would simply refuse to comply with regulations they found invasive or disproportionate.

      As things stand however, those pushing this line are a small – if vocal – minority. Good.

      Hatuey is right. Nobody here is forcing you. The vaccines you don’t take will be available for others with more brain cells. Win/win as far as I’m concerned.

    73. J.o.e says:

      If my concerns for the safety of these Covid vaccines could be mitigated by the inconvenience of not being able to go to cinemas, museums, restaurants etc then I wouldn’t consider myself as having much of a concern in the first place.

      I have long advocated waging economic war against the totalitarianism we face. (not fascism – fascism is characterized by ultra nationalism. This is clearly not that. Indeed it is quite obviously the opposite in that regard.)

      Using your money tactically is more effective than voting if it is done on a large enough scale. I already gave the numbers of what would happen if a Scottish Independence movement worthy of the name convinced people unhappy with the BBC to stop paying their license and instead divert it to the coffers of the movement – it would be millions in revenue per month. Enough to kickstart the embryo of a kind of parallel state.

      Businesses that wish to back up this covid narrative need to be boycotted. Now they are making you boycott them. Great. Nothing lost there.

      Whatever your political views it should start becoming clear that we need to start taking power away from corporations and back into our local communities. This is done by putting your money into the community and not into the corporations. Its like voting but you get to do it every day and it directly affects the fuckers who politicians never actually tackle.

      Fuck amazon. Fuck Asda. Fuck Tesco. Fuck Netflix. Fuck the BBC. Fuck Sky. Fuck them all. Start funneling your money into real people in your community and get yourself off the addiction of ease and facility that the corporations get you hooked on.

      This is actually more powerful than picking whichever fake political arsehole you might find least disgusting once every 5 years.

      The powers know this – which is why they interest themselves with economics and leave you to the voting.

      As for the people onboard with the covid narrative, who would maybe find what im saying silly – ignore them. They are lost and will ultimately suffer for their lack of care and attention which will hopefully lead them in our direction for which we can welcome them with open arms.

      While im ranting – any Scottish Nationalist politician who has not yet expressed some concern about the way covid is being used by governments is not your friend or a friend of Scotland and her people

    74. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      Your anti-vax description is aimed at belittling the person and not the argument.
      You and Ellis know fine well that all the people you have been calling anti-vaxxers have had all the vaccinations up to but not including the latest brand new vaccines.

      Their reasons for this have been explained on numerous occasions, why do you refuse to engage on a legitimate debate about the necessity to have not only vulnerable people vaccinated, as was first proposed but the rest of the population who are in no danger from Covid?

      Why should anybody have to be vaccinated against something that is no threat to them?

      Regarding your own resistance to vaccinations for children, you do understand if they don’t get vaccinated they will have no vaccine passport?
      The implication is that children will need to be vaccinated with these vaccines that needed clearance for emergency use regardless of whether there is an emergency for them to be vaccinated or not.

      Regarding vaccine passports, they will have to be monitored and kept up to date meaning continuing vaccinations. These vaccinations no doubt, will inevitably have to be paid for out of your own pocket going forward.
      How long are we being told does the vaccine protects you for, 3 to 6 months?
      What is the cumulative danger of continuous vaccinations?

      Obviously as someone who chastises people about their reticence of these new vaccines you will have the answers, won’t you?

      I’m all ears. (Not you Ellis, I’ve had enough of your empty headed arrogance)

    75. Nally Anders says:

      Spokesperson for ‘racist nursery’ says..
      “In addition to our owners being of Asian heritage, across more than a decade we have regularly welcomed both children and staff from a range of different religions, cultural, ethnic and racial backgrounds, including two Muslim families currently”.
      Doesn’t say much for the Daily Records standard of investigative reporting. An online search could have identified who owned the business.
      Humza is one gawd almighty shit stirrer with a massive chip on his shoulder.
      No wonder Nikla likes him.

    76. Hatuey says:

      “We may not want to sit next to you”

      You’re being personal now.

      My advice to those that haven’t been vaccinated is to go out and enjoy their freedoms now.

      In the future you’ll have no freedom, you’ll have no jobs, and you’ll have no property… but you will be happy.

    77. John McNab says:

      robertknight at 9.36 am

      Would -6 be deep fried Mars attacks?

    78. stonefree says:

      @ BLMac at 1:39 pm

      “What I do wonder about is what filth do they have on her for her to have become so submissive.”
      Fair enough, take it to the next level
      What does Sturgeon have on the the SNP members who have a position within the SNP.
      That is a serious question, watch the behavior of those who are featured by MSM

    79. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey

      I love how the anti-vaxxers are now trying to deflect from their woo-woo by saying it’s only the nasty new vaccines they’re opposed to, and *of course* they have all their other jabs, I mean, they’re not total monsters because otherwise it just looks like they don’t believe in science and reject vaccinations for say MMR or cervical cancer or smallpox. ‘Cos that’d just be nuts, right?

      When they know they can’t win on rational, science based arguments or explain why all those doctors and experts out there are wrong, but their “truthy” assertions are somehow worthy not only of consideration but of stopping people doing the rational thing, they move on to the second level idiocy of: “Wah…it’ll cost a fortune”, or “Our civil liberties will disappear like sea’ off a dyke”, or “We’ll all end up in anti-vaxxer camps”, or “this is ACTUAL violence and you’re an ACTUAL fascist”.

      If it wasn’t so tragic it’d be comical. Meanwhile, in the real word, most ordinary folk regard these anti-vaxx nutters the same way they regard Trump supporters, Brexiteers, TRA and Woko Haram SNP cultists. They’re all cut from the same cloth.

    80. Dan says:

      Andy Wightman – “Why I Resigned from the Scottish Green Party

      http://www.andywightman.com/archives/4634

    81. Hatuey says:

      Joe, I can’t see the workers and their firms going for your plan.

      The system we call capitalism is full of problems and flaws. But it produces so many wonderful things.

      When workers go on strike today or people take to the streets, in 99% of cases it’s because they want more of capitalism’s fruits.

      There’s no alternative to capitalism anywhere outside of North Korea. The best we can hope to do is regulate it and file down some of its sharp and jagged edges.

      Your whole vibe is about 200 years out of date.

      History basically ended in 1989 as far as competing socio-economic and political systems are concerned. And that’s a good thing — if we are all the same, it removes a bunch of reasons for waging wars.

      Get into it.

    82. Republicofscotland says:

      James Che @3.56pm.

      James.

      The Paris Agreement in 2015, didn’t even come close to limiting a global temperature increase to 1.5 degrees. There’s nothing I’ve seen yet to suggest that anything substantial will come out of Novembers COP26 in Glasgow.

      https://2nsbq1gn1rl23zol93eyrccj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/COP26-Explained.pdf

      I see you mentioned Iraq, did you know that several UK troops received awards for their part in the Great Satan’s (USA) murder of Iran’s General Soleimani in Iraq, in which the UN declared that it was an illegal killing. The UK troops provided logistics out of their base in Muharraq in the despotic regime of Bahrain which the UK vehemently supports, the base costs the UK taxpayer over £270,000 pounds a year, Priti Patel has visited the base, which is close to a well known police station that tortures those who seek democracy in the country.

    83. Robert Hughes says:

      Ah there’s Andy Capp-in- hand imagining he’s scored another slam-dunk by his impeccable advocacy of Reason and no doubt Science – as if there is anything rational about the ridiculous paranoia people have embraced about a virus with a 98+% recovery rate and as if Science is some monolithic entity rather than a multitude of differing views and perceptions not subject to outside influences , notably political ones .

      If the Government approved scientists are so sure they are right why the total exclusion/suppression of any interpretation that challenges their position ?

      The inventor of the m-rna vaccines Dr Robert Malone himself has said he believes the way their being used is potentially catastrophic : but wtf does he know , he only invented them . Yet one more Flat Earth Anti-Vaxx crackpot no doubt

      Covid has become a cult , with it’s high priests , heretics , declarations of faith , auto-da-fes on infidels and appeals to the one god Science to justify any manner of impositions and “penalties ” the nature of which would have provoked outrage B.C ie Before Covid .

      J.O.E is absolutely right …..fuck the businesses and institutions that voluntarily enforce Covid Apartheid : I can easily live without access to bars , restaurants , cinemas , theatres etc : just as I can easily avoid the company of dangerous segregationists like you Mr Ellis

    84. Hatuey says:

      Couldn’t agree more, Andy, although if they’re anything, they’re shape-shifting lizards… they change their arguments more often than they change their underpants. In both cases it’s the stubborn under stains that hold things together.

    85. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      Fuck off with your blanket anti-vaxxer shit. There’s way more nuance to it than your simplistic, aggressively hostile and derogatory views of anyone that has concerns over being jagged with them.

      There are legitimate reasons why some folk question having “the vaccine” at this time.
      Such as:
      Underlying health issues and ongoing treatments.
      As yet undiagnosed health issues because access to health services have been severely impeded over the past year and and half.
      Lifestyle choices that mean you do not interact face to face with the general public, and when you do you adhere to all recommended protocols so there’s little if any risk to either party.

    86. Hatuey says:

      @Andy

      P.S. I often chuckle to think many of the anti-vaxxers have probably been vaccinated. You just know it, eh… if experience tells me anything, the ones that ‘doth protest too much’ are the most likely candidates.

      Haahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaa

    87. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      If you believe my argument has changed, please point it out. It should be easy as it’s all written down here.

      I am quite capable of answering any genuine questions with an honest answer and if I don’t know the answer I will tell you I don’t know the answer.

      Can you say the same?

    88. Gary45% says:

      Hey guys, can we just get back to Indy related stuff.

    89. Gary45% says:

      Every post turn into the same garbage no matter what the subject is.

    90. Clavie Cheil says:

      Today’s gripe.

      It is hard to enjoy this very limited freedom right now in the so called Freedom Days.

      My last tour of Sturgeons Scotland was spoiled by “No Overnight Camping” signs on Forestry Commission Land. The kind of behavior I expect from the worst of the Absentee Tax Write Off Heavily Subsidized Landlords. If that wasn’t enough we have to suffer signs saying No Unauthorized Vehicles allowed on Forestry Commission Roads.

      I dont think most folk realise just how much of Scotland is covered by Plantation Forestry or Land that is inaccessible despite thier being no Trespass Rights of Way.

      Oh and I have seen more than one alleged campsite that doesn’t allow erm TENTS. Yet we are being herded towards such locations by what I regard as Brit Tory Policies instigated by Sturgeons Nonce Party.

      The Last tour was also spoiled by what I can only describe as loud mouthed drunken Yahs virtually stroking each other. Didn’t get a wink of sleep that night. We will pay a heavy price for failing to close the Border yet again.

    91. Breastplate says:

      Gary 45%,
      Nicola has linked Covid to independence, unfortunately.

    92. Effigy says:

      I’ve taken the vaccines but with Bojo telling us
      the roll out wipes clean the utter shambles the
      Tories have been since it all started.

      Why then is the U.K. daily Covid death rate still the worst in Europe?
      Might have been nice for an opposition or a real media channel to
      ask why we had over 100 Covid deaths today?

      No one mentions the excess deaths any longer.
      The U.K. has had over 150,000 Covid deaths with
      the inclusion of the excess number of 20,000.

      Why are the new cases numbers in compatible countries like
      France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc so very much lower on a daily basis?

      We are living in a Gangster’s paradise.

    93. Ruby says:

      Crazycat

      Good to hear Craig is doing well. His time in prison could end up being a positive experience. I’m thinking along the lines of the positives you can gain from a retreat.

      What about his wife? Is she getting plenty support, offers of babysitting/help with chores, a bunch of flowers etc etc?

    94. Gary45% says:

      I thought we were told to ignore Nicola or similar?
      Or is it the usual selective subjects?

    95. Gary45% says:

      Indy Site, lets talk Indy.

    96. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis
      Remember to vaccinate you’re feet in disinfectant, before entering other areas or wear plastic disposable booties and fumigate you’re clothes to contribute in stopping the spread of the virus, as these are things about you’re person that have not been vaccinated,

      Wash you’re car or bikes down, at home each time after use to prevent contamination being carried from one area or district to another. As the road has not been vaccinated and could carry the virus.
      And leave you’re mail from the postie sitting for a few days beforehand.

      Remember not to take flights to foreign countries whereby you cannot challenge the waiter or toilet cleaner to see if they have had their vaccines.

      And remember not to mix or live in or around the same route of the migrants crossing the channel to arrive at various British hotels, as the people traffickers seldom covid test their financial supply chain.

      Do not eat food, fruit or veg from countries that do not have vaccine passport to prove that all cheap labour workers have been vaccinated.

      As clothes and shoes are more often than not, produced in sweat shops abroad with none vaccinated people it would be advisory not to buy clothes without an authenticity of country and factory status verification of each workers vaccines history,
      Do not except parcel deliveries from amazon until you can track and trace the product from the origin of producer, storage facility covid safety, all transportation verification on covid vaccinated lorry drivers , shipping container workers, fed ex workers or other service providers.

      Do not mix with politicians whom have had covid or the covid vaccine as these people seem to be particularly vulnerable to testing positive to the covid virus more than once.
      Please wait for confirmation and further instructions on how to duck and dive the shite about real measures to stop viral infections spreading.

      The government have stated on televising MSM broadcast that vaccines do not prevent you getting covid, nor does it stop you spreading the virus to others even if they have been vaccinated,

      It just stops you personally having it so bad.

      Please adhere to you’re believes as much as we want you to.
      A vaccine passport is either digital or paper, and is neither a preventative to your spreading the virus
      Keep the fear alive, Please Stay at home, stay safe, and keep the rest of the population safe.

    97. James Che. says:

      Gary 45 %.
      Good idea,
      I wish.

    98. James Che. says:

      RepublicofScotland.
      That explains the status of government to status of people.
      You could not have said it better.

    99. Hugh Jarse says:

      Science IS the new religion.
      But knowing that its always been polluted by politics and £, from inside and out, I’ve gone from believer to agnostic.

      Funding is ALL.

      Back to Socrates then.
      Take no ones word for it.

      Especially those beholden to billionaire mentalist, messianic types.

      Come on Melinda, spill the beans!
      😉

    100. Ruby says:

      Gary45% says:
      7 August, 2021 at 5:48 pm
      Indy Site, lets talk Indy.

      Reply

      It’s a bit tricky to talk Indy at the moment because absolutely nothing is happening.

    101. Ruby says:

      When do you need a Covid passport if you are in the UK?

    102. Tinto Chiel says:

      “The biggest propaganda operation in history.

      All the alarm bells are ringing.

      We’re at a pivotal moment.”

      https://21stcenturywire.com/2021/08/05/interview-covid-19-is-a-global-propaganda-operation/#disqus_thread

      Despite the headlines, a measured and unhysterical assessment from an academic with a long career in studying propaganda.

    103. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @5pm

      Thanks for the link, so the Scottish Greens are toxic, who’d have thought it.

      “On reflection that evening I decided to resign from the Party for the simple reason that I could not work in an environment with such a censorious, bullying and intimidatory culture and where I was expected to agree that scientific facts such as sex are to be sidelined. ”

      Andy Wightman.

    104. Ruby says:

      https://www.digitalhealth.net/2021/05/what-is-the-covid-19-passport-your-questions-answered/

      “What if you haven’t had both jabs?
      Undoubtedly many who haven’t had, or cannot have, the vaccine will be worried it will impact their ability to travel.

      As mentioned above, many countries aren’t accepting Covid passports as proof of vaccination, so it is unlikely to impact your immediate ability to travel. This could change in the future if vaccination passports become internationally recognised, but we don’t yet know how that will work.

      Government guidance for people who haven’t been vaccinated suggests they should follow the entry requirements of the country they are travelling to.

      This will likely include proof of a negative Covid test upon arrival. Some countries also require people to quarantine on arrival, so be sure to check advice before travelling.

      Details on entry requirements for different countries can be found on the gov.uk foreign travel advice pages and on the websites of your destination country.”

    105. Fred says:

      The overly used hyperbolic “antivax” doesn’t actually bother me. As i’ve stated before, it demonstrates the user has no original thought process of their own. All they’re demonstrating is their ability to dismiss anything but a headline and parrot a term that was spoon-fed to them by a media controlled by people and organisations whose ultimate agenda it is to change and control society to their own ends.
      Please use it as much as you want, it immediately shows to all and sundry that if you do – you’ve already lost your argument.

    106. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 5.12 pm

      Anyone that has legitimate health reasons not to be vaccinated, fair enough. But what about all the others (almost certainly vastly more people) with underlying health problems which will be made much worse if they contract Covid from the “great unvaxxed”?

      All the folk with asthma and breathing difficulties for example?

      The folk who are immuno suppressed?

      Haven’t we just been told the number of people in their 20’s being hospitalised with Covid has spiked? If Covid is such a doddle, why did my twice vaccinated work colleagues sister (who is in her mid twenties and otherwise has no health problems) get wiped out for a week when she got Covid.

      I wonder if my daughters cancer patient friend who died of Covid in his mid 20’s would be thanking all the anti-vaxxers for spreading their germs because *civil liberties*?

      Yes, there are nuances like there are for anything that impacts millions of people. It still doesn’t excuse otherwise intelligent people falling for a-scientific clap trap. You’re just the modern day equivalents of those who begged up the charlatan that assured us MMR caused autism, or that smallpox vaccination was dangerous.

      https://ftp.historyofvaccines.org/multilanguage/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movements

    107. Gary45% says:

      Ruby@6.15
      There has to be something else?
      Every single post for months has ended up in a waste of everyone’s time. I believe this vs I believe this, I’m right vs I’m right.
      Round and round it goes, meanwhile WM lies get bigger, the corruption gets bigger and Johnson and Co are getting away with the crime of the century, and Scotland’s No1 Independence site gets bogged down with meaningless crap,( deliberately by the hidden Yoons. Its a form of damage control).
      So there is plenty to discuss.

    108. Republicofscotland says:

      Tinto Chiel.

      I’m not quite convinced that Covid-19 doesn’t exist, however history shows us that its possible to fake an epidemic/pandemic, which happened in the USA in 1976 under then POTUS Gerald ford, a interesting snippet on Ford is that he’s the only POTUS never to be elected by the public to office, and the only Vice President never to be elected by the public to office.

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-the-us-government-faked-a-pandemic-in-1976/5750831

    109. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Andy Ellis,

      You ar a patient person.

      Dan gives you dogs abuse with his foul mouthed rant complaining you are an anti anti anti anti-vaxxer who gives dogs abuse. Dan you get a “D-” for self-awareness and a “B+” for being ironic. Though I suspect you don’t understand how ironic you are.

      Mist001 what on earth is your purpose? You flounce off in a huff promising everyone here that you will never ever come back. But like a skunk at a picnic, your WHIFF appears again soon enough.

      Mist001, before making your stupid, lethal comments, how about YOU go watch all these dying anti-vaxxers now on American television?

      Watch these Yanks and 400 pound obese Republican Hill Billy Trump Lobotomised anti-vaxxers on their death-beds begging that they WISHED THEY HAD TAKEN THE VACCINE.

      Mist001 why are you in this website? You are an Englishman living in France who moans about everything and makes little sense.

      Surely some other website could accept your glowing CV…

      DoB: 25-09-1962
      Occupation: Anti-Vaxxer.
      Political affiliation: The SNP. No not that one, the Sad Neurotic Pest party.
      Contribution to humanity: Spreading death.
      Positive personality traits: Cures insomnia.
      DoD: Bloody soon if he keeps getting his science from Facebook.

      Putting the site Troll-De-La-Merde Prevocateur aside for the moment, I tend to agree with Gary45%…

      Please can we discuss ways to secure Indy Ref 2?

    110. James Che. says:

      Hey I know a better conspiracy theory than the anti vaxxer one,

      I looked up into the sky’s with wonderment and amazement all during lock down,
      For there it was, for all to see,
      in 2020,
      The planes had stopped flying and the sky was blue,

      Clouds rolled by like they used too.

      No more blanket grey,
      For who is to say

      That experiments in cloud seeding and control.
      Was what made our planet so cold,

      But climate change is to believed.
      It is getting warm.

      The sun is dangerous,
      And the floods cause harm.

      But here I sit,
      Realising that caveman never wore sunscreen

      That there were floods in Noah’s time.
      Did he believe in climate change.

      Yet down in history, starvation of the brits.
      Food famine and dying livestock.

      In the bible, and 1300s 1400s and so on in a historic glitch.
      Climate change before the industrial revolution.

      Before plastic bag and pollution.
      And frozen Britain in the early 1700s.

      It is so wonderous,
      That climate change is caused by us,

      That earth does not please itself.
      From before BC, to present day.

      That lowering our footprint is true.
      But in 2020,
      I am wondering why the sky is so blue.

    111. Republicofscotland says:

      “The Scottish Government can’t call itself a climate leader without opposing the Cambo oil field. How can we trust our governments to tackle the climate crisis when time and time again they refuse to take meaningful action to mitigate its effects?”

      Beautifully said by the twenty-year old student, who confronted Sturgeon today at her constituency festival, and asked her why she hasn’t opposed the removal of oil in the Cambo field.

      “Environmental campaigners estimate that the 132 million tonnes of CO2 emissions that could be produced would require an area of land some 1.5 times the size of Scotland to counteract them.”

      Two things why is COP26 being held in Glasgow when the Scottish government can’t even bring itself to oppose the likes of the Cambo field, and two, you’d never catch Sturgeon out and about with a AUOB crowd.

      https://archive.is/wrlzy

    112. J Galt says:

      Let me get this right.

      They admit the vax does not stop you catching “covid”.

      They admit the vax does not stop you passing on “covid”

      They admit there are lots of “double vaxxed” in hospital with “covid”.

      By that reckoning the non vaxxed are no more dangerous than the righteous ones.

      What exactly is the point?

    113. Ruby says:

      Al-Stuart says:

      Please can we discuss ways to secure Indy Ref 2?

      Reply

      Voting for the political party that supports IndyRef2?

      Your turn now Al-Stuart.
      How would you suggest we secure IndyRef2?

    114. Ruby says:

      Gary45% says:

      So there is plenty to discuss.

      Reply

      Can you give some examples of what we can discuss?

      I would be happy to go along with anything you suggest and contribute if I.

    115. Saffron Robe says:

      Another top notch cartoon, Chris. World peace before indyref2 indeed! I had been thinking the same myself about the numbering system. If Level 0 does not imply the absence of restrictions, then it necessitates going into negative numbers. Just another sign of Nicola Sturgeon’s confused thinking and an indication that under her leadership we are going backwards not forwards. Not really surprising, I suppose, considering she is an unrepentant recidivist.

    116. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 6:40 pm

      Anyone that has legitimate health reasons not to be vaccinated, fair enough.

      Good to have you acknowledge this point, so why can’t you put your views across in away that doesn’t get folk’s backs up by derogatorily blanketing anybody that has concerns about receiving the jags at this time as being an anti-vaxxer.
      You are an articulate guy so you’re clearly capable of writing in a way that wasn’t so likely to cause this problem.
      You start with a similar needlessly hostile modus with discussions about franchise eligibility too.
      Most matters are not black and white, so attempting to hold discussions as if they are is far from ideal.

      I’ll counter the rest of your post with the alternative point asking why do some folk react badly to the jags.
      I’m not talking about feeling a bit off for a few days, I’m talking feeling really bad for a week after the first jag, then recovering, then as soon as second jag was administered they took ill and within two days had a stroke and heart attack (fortunately surviving). This happened to a friend of a friend.
      Is that adverse reaction to the jags because they would have been hit hard with the virus, or is it because they were one of the significant number of folk that would be asymptomatic if they caught covid as they already had some natural immunity to it, and as a result of being exposed to whatever is in the injected serums it created an adverse negative reaction.

      @ Al Stuart

      Aye, whatever…

    117. Ruby says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      7 August, 2021 at 6:22 pm
      “The biggest propaganda operation in history.

      All the alarm bells are ringing.

      We’re at a pivotal moment.”

      https://21stcenturywire.com/2021/08/05/interview-covid-19-is-a-global-propaganda-operation/#disqus_thread

      Reply

      The biggest propaganda operation in history!!!

      Did he miss the ‘Better Together/aka Project Fear’ 2014 IndyRef campaign or the ongoing situation vis a vis the MSM/BBC here in Scotland?

      I gave up on the video when he started to waffle having been asked the question as to why the ‘propaganda merchants’ wanted us in lockdown and wearing masks.

    118. Breastplate says:

      J Galt,
      Yes, you are correct except for the unvaccinated being more likely to spread the virus.
      Hatuey as a statistician (I think) has already explained why he believes you are more likely to be infected by the vaccinated, completely destroying Andy Ellis’s argument about the horribly contagious unvaccinated.

    119. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Al-Stuart

      It’s just playing rhetorical whack a mole. It’s noticeable that the anti-vaxx moon howlers, much like their nativist kin (..and of course – stun us with another -there’s a huge over lap!), tend to resort to foul mouthed abuse in lieu of argument. Such delicate little flowers objecting to being labelled what they are, so they can only manage dogs abuse and Godwinising through the froth of spittle.

      As others have noted above, there’s SFA else going on in the indy movement at present, and with Rev Stu taking a well deserved break, BTL here has mostly been abandoned by the grown ups which lets the moon howlers circle jerk themselves into a righteous frenzy about the conspiracy theory du jour.

      If it isn’t vaccines are a plot, it’s nativist franchise limitation. We can only be thankful they’re not moved on to their cunning plans for constitutional conventions, UDI and just walking away from the Treaty of Union because *reasons*.

      Maybe this is how it will be for the next few years. In the meantime, we might as well see if Alba lives up to expectations. It’s not as if there’s anything else worthwhile on the horizon.

    120. Tinto Chiel says:

      @republicofscotland: I hadn’t seen that article on swine ‘flu before but I believe a later vaccine for it was withdrawn after either 50 or 53 deaths (I have read conflicting totals).

      At Al-Stuart: Dan is normally the last person to indulge in a “foul-mouthed rant”. Perhaps you have missed Andy Ellis’s habitually gratuitous insults against anyone he disagrees with. And if you think Dan has no appreciation of irony you have obviously missed his humorous comments on the trans debate and the Iona Dicks of this world.

      J. Galt boiled it down to the basic question:

      “Let me get this right.

      They admit the vax does not stop you catching “covid”.

      They admit the vax does not stop you passing on “covid”

      They admit there are lots of “double vaxxed” in hospital with “covid”.

      By that reckoning the non vaxxed are no more dangerous than the righteous ones.

      What exactly is the point?”

      I’m afraid I’m fast coming to the conclusion that this is not all about a government’s concern for public health but is rather about massive profits for the pharmaceutical companies and more control over us, the proles, for governments.

      Sadly, by the time most folk realise the trap they have entered, it may well be too late.

      ‘Mon the warming lobsters in the pot…..

    121. Ruby says:

      Stuck for something IndyRef related to talk about?

      What about we have a closer look at things that happened prior to the 2014 IndyRef?

      There was so much going on then I’m pretty sure quite a lot was missed. I watched this the other night and found it interesting:

      https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5b3d7b3b-afa8-461e-9288-5265626b7be4

      starts at
      12:46:00

      Maybe we could have a closer look at the 2014 EU debate starting with Tugendhat’s letter to Barosso?

      Micheal Moore didn’t fair very well in one of those debates after which he was replaced by ‘help my Rhona’ who was supposed to be a ‘browser’ but he turned out to be a useless liar.

      It’s a good thing to study your opponents tactics so that you are prepared for the next match. Is that not what football teams do?

    122. Scott says:

      Everything after indyref is a negative…

      Statistics, damned statistics and lies.

    123. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Dan 6.40 pm

      Some issues are black and white. There are right answers and wrong answers. Of course, not everyone will agree on what they are, but it doesn’t mean that that because there is disagreement then both sides can always be “a bit right” and “a bit wrong”.

      Of the hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine delivered is it possible that there will be some adverse reactions? Of course it is. There are risks in lots of courses of action and medical procedures. Anyone who goes into surgery – however minor – is advised that there’s a risk they might not come out of it because they could react badly to anaesthesia, or have some other complication. Most rational people weigh up the small likelihood of these things happening against the benefit of having the surgery.

      Those questioning the orthodoxy are no different to anti-vaxxers in earlier generations or those who decide not to have surgery because they convince themselves the risks are too high.

      You try and dress up your unreason in the faux “Why can’t you just be nice, we’re just asking questions.” Aye, whatever as someone said….

    124. Benhope says:

      Delighted that the Great British Lions have been gubbed by South Africa. There are a few token Scots in the team but Warren Gatland generally does not like Scots in his team. A victory for a small country over the great British Colonial power !!!!

    125. Breeks says:

      Ruby says:
      7 August, 2021 at 7:07 pm
      Gary45% says:

      So there is plenty to discuss.

      Reply

      Can you give some examples of what we can discuss?

      I’ll gloss over the Constitutional issues…. I sound like a broken record.

      But one issue people should be aware of the possibility of Brexit shortages and Boris Johnston being a complete arse with comments praising Thatcher in ex mining communities, actually creating substantial levels of dissatisfaction.

      With Labour in total disarray, and Sturgeon trying to sell us all a pup that an IndyRef isn’t on the horizon, and especially if there’s a serious dip in support for Indy, a deeply unpopular Tory Party might do what Theresa May did in 2016, completely wrong foot Sturgeon, punish her complacency, and hold a snap election to make or break her handling of Brexit.

      Nobody should be working on a timetable of 2026, because there will be a UK General Election in 2014, but it could come around much, much sooner.

      Not this year maybe, but depending of the anger down south as Brexit shortages bite and more people see through Boris the Oaf, you’re going to see votes of confidence being thrown about with typical Westminster brinkmanship and sophistry just like Brexit revisited, and a snap General Election could simply fall out a tree.

      It could be a big opportunity for ALBA, but there will be a lot of people biting their nails in a UK General Election when Scotland has squabbling Independence parties.

      Getting rid of Sturgeon and bringing her dismal “leadership” to an end is not something that should be postponed. She needs to go sooner rather than later so the division she has created has a chance of reconciliation, or an orderly switch of allegiance to ALBA.

      Reconciliation is going to be a very tall order, let’s not kid ourselves, but the process won’t even begin until Sturgeon is gone. And if she’s not gone, then Scotland is in deep shit.

      Scotland needs an SNP with a leader who can work with ALBA. You’d think that would be a no-brainer. Joanna Cherry could do it, (although that might be difficult for the SNP’s backstabbing whiners), but I’m really struggling to throw another name in the hat.

      As Independentists, we can face up to these problems now, or during a General Election Campaign.

    126. Ruby says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      I’m afraid I’m fast coming to the conclusion that this is not all about a government’s concern for public health but is rather about massive profits for the pharmaceutical companies and more control over us, the proles, for governments.

      Reply

      Why would they put us into lockdown, close businesses & have to pay furlough if their main interest was profits for the pharmaceutical companies?

    127. Breastplate says:

      Dan,
      We used to talk about protecting the vulnerable and we used to understand this to be people with compromised immune systems. These tended to be the elderly and those with underlying health problems.
      We were told that 80% of the population would show mild or no symptoms if they contracted the virus. The remaining 20% would be expected to have symptoms ranging from mild through moderate up to extreme which would mean death, the IFR is 0.5 to 0.7%.

      This would suggest that at least 80% of the population and arguably more, have legitimate health reasons not to be vaccinated yet there are evidently brainless arguments for these people to be jabbed with a vaccine they know has a higher risk of causing them more harm than the virus itself.

      Knowing what we know about the vaccines and the virus;
      If you have ten 8 year olds and ten 80 year olds but you only have ten vaccines, who do you administer the vaccines to and why?

      I’m sure different people will have different answers.

    128. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      7 August, 2021 at 8:02 pm

      @ Dan 6.40 pm

      Some issues are black and white. There are right answers and wrong answers.

      All issues are black and white.

      There are right and wrong answers only.

      Wrt to vaccination, labelling those who have chosen not to have this vaccine as anti-vaxxers is an absurd stance to take. More so when valid reasoning is provided to support the stance.

      Yet here you are, all blinded by your own fragile ego.

      Your bland style of writing was apparent in your thesis, which you have referenced as giving you the authority to identify as an expert in international relations.

      My question is – Does it, aye?

    129. Ruby says:

      https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/#comments

      Here’s something about independence.

      It was taken down. 🙁

      However thanks to good old archive.is

      it is still available. 🙂

      https://archive.is/9sxzm

      It’s not that new but it is about independence. 🙂

    130. Hatuey says:

      I’ve never tried to close down any discussions on here and I don’t think anyone else here has the right to either. If people want to debate covid stuff, let them do so.

      Actually, if there’s one subject that gnaws at me, it’s independence. I don’t know how anyone can discuss the subject with a straight face these days, not while Monsters Inc. are running the show.

      There’s no permutation of bad things anyone could say about the Sturgeon regime that hasn’t been said a thousand times before.

      She’s turned us all into those grotesque figures that Bacon painted, waiting at the base of the crucifixion.

      I’ll wait because there’s nothing else to do. It’s resurrection or bust. But I’m sick of talking about why we are left waiting and the thing we are waiting for.

      No offence intended to those who think otherwise.

    131. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      I agree with your comment regarding independence.
      It has been evident for a few years that the SNP is a hindrance to independence.
      It was noted that we needed a solution for this and many people believe that Alba is the answer.

      More people need to get behind Alba otherwise nothing much is going to change in my opinion.

    132. willie says:

      Brexit shortages Breeks. You must be mistaken. The empty shelves in the supermarkets are a Brexit dividend.

      And the petrol stations with typically up to half of the diesel pumps closed due to the tanks being empty, that’s another Brexit dividend.

      Or what about the engineering and construction industry on a go slow or stoppage due to lack of cement, or plasterboard. That’ll be another Brexit dividend.

      Tis truly fantastic, our Majestic Britannia out of supplies and on a go slow whilst Europe prospers. They don’t like it up em, but we do.

      Oh the joy and our second rate navy is off on a world tour to kick Chinese and Russian ass too. Methinks the Ruski’s and the Chinese could sink Britain’s finest and send the bits home in union jack liveried poly bags. Wouldn’t that be lovely, a lovely war where John Bull and Horatio Nelson could die for their country. Would make one proud, very proud.

      Yes War War, that’s the ticket, that is what we want. Loose the fuckin nukes, Britannia’s back. Cruising for a bruising Igor or Chineeman. Who dare meddle with Big Britannia.

      There rant over. Who cares if we’re short of goods and our economy is on stop.

    133. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ruby: “Why would (governments) put us into lockdown, close businesses & have to pay furlough if their main interest was profits for the pharmaceutical companies?”

      It’s not their main interest, it’s the pharmaceutical companies’ main interest. Remember that national governments have indemnified Big Pharma against future claims, even assuming some poor schmuck has the money to take them to court and has the patience of Job. In return, what do the likes of Bojo et al get?

      For governments like Johnson’s, it’s all about increasing their power over you (and personal wealth) and me while we are gripped by The Fear, while utter doughballs like Dido Harding (memo to self: careful with the spelling) make north of £30,000,000,000 from a useless Track and Trace programme.

      Imagine what that sum would do for the operating bed capacity of the NHS, which was 480,000 in the bankrupt UK of 1948 and is about 115,000 now, with at least 15 million more UK residents.

    134. cirsium says:

      @J Galt, 7.00
      What exactly is the point?

      The bank repo market crashed on September 17 2019. https://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/09/the-fed-intervened-in-overnight-lending-for-first-time-since-the-crash-why-it-matters-to-you/
      (Crisis started August 14 2019 https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/05/evidence-suggests-u-s-financial-crisis-started-on-august-14-2019/
      (And the crisis has continued – Wall Street on parade’s ongoing series on the Federal Reserve’s 2019-21 Bailout of Wall Street https://wallstreetonparade.com/9426-2/)

      So under cover of a pandemic terror campaign, there is the controlled demolition of economies ushering in neo-feudalism (“you will own nothing and you will be happy”, “build back better”, “the New Normal”, marketing slogans based on “COVID 19: The Great Reset”by Klaus Schwab). Contact tracing is being positioned to become an enabler of mass surveillance. This would be the only reason for the Vaccine Passports given the fact that the experimental gene therapy injections do not provide sterilising immunity so people who have taken the injection can still catch and transmit the infection.

    135. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 8.17 pm

      Really? All issues…? Save us all from Manichaeans like you. The point, going back to Dan’s objection is that there are nuances. For instance it’s possible to think that vaccination is generally a good thing, but there may be discussion to be had about e.g. whether it’s a good idea to vaccinate children or young adults, or just concentrate on older folk, or whether it’s a good use of global resources to vaccinate younger people here rather than send the vaccines to poorer countries who haven’t vaccinated enough people.

      It’s also still possible for me (and it seems the majority of the population) to reject the point of view being espoused by anti-vaxxers, and see that as a black and white issue. We believe we’re right and you are wrong. You believe the opposite. Such is life.

      Finally, there will be the objectively right answer. It may not yet be clear what that is in this particular case right now, but some day it will doubtless be evident., just as it is now evident that the charlatans who promoted the MMR scares were wrong.

      You may find my writing style bland (and well done you for searching out and apparently reading my thesis) but in my – admittedly limited – experience, PhD supervisors tend not to put much store in flowery or racy prose style. Perhaps your output is superior?

      I’ve never claimed to be an expert in International Relations, or that because I have a PhD in the subject it makes my views authoritative. I’m just some guy on the internet. Some of the stupidest people I know have further degrees, it doesn’t necessarily prove anything. My background is pertinent however, especially when – as has often happened – some random yoon or other cyber opponent tells me I don’t know what I’m talking about on a subject I am actually pretty well read on.

      Of course, you could be just another no-mark with a chip on his shoulder. That’d certainly be where I’d put my money, but then as you point out it’s not as though I’m an authority is it?

      As to your question, it appears to be in answer to a statement that was never made. That should be enough to demonstrate to most folk that you’re just some no-mark with a grudge, even if you have apparently gone to the somewhat creepy lengths of searching out a 20 year old Phd thesis.

    136. Mia says:

      “Beautifully said by the twenty-year old student, who confronted Sturgeon today at her constituency festival, and asked her why she hasn’t opposed the removal of oil in the Cambo field”

      Frankly, I would be far more impressed if the 20 year old had confronted Sturgeon today and demanded a credible justification as to why the political fraud is negligently haemorrhaging Scotland’s children’s biggest assets by deliberately delaying Scotland’s independence in order to allow the English establishment to benefit from what is obviously one of the biggest oil deposits in Europe.

      I understand they are planning to start the pumping of oil of this Scotland’s oil deposit in 2022. If the political fraud was a real nationalist, she would be fighting tooth and nail to get independence before then, so Scotland could get ALL the benefit from ITS asset. Instead, what we have in control of Scotland’s government and in control of Scotland’s pro independence MPs is a spineless political fraud who is deliberately denying Scotland its self determination in order to hand Scotland’s assets over to England and then pay some sort of deflecting lip service to environmentalism to distract us of the real problem here.

      It would be interesting to know if that massive oil deposit is one of the main reasons why this political fraud is pushing indyref back. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is. Of course the English establishment (and the American one) must take the biggest chunk of Scotland’s resource, as they have done with every other one. That is what the political fraud is there for, isn’t she? to hand everything of value out and to leave the Scottish people without it.

      The cynical in me does not believe the 20 year old and does not believe that there is now interest in stopping the pumping out of this oil field at all. The cynical in me thinks that this climate protest against this oil field is just another engineered smokescreen to save the political fraud’s arse and, once again, make the people of Scotland think that our best assets are worthless, that our oil is bad and that we are better off handing it over to England as it has been happening for the last 40 years.

      The oil contained in that oil field is worth a fckng fortune and could do a lot of good to Scotland. It could offer a future to our children and grandchildren. It could help to create jobs to retain our young people here instead of watching them emigrate. it could reduce the drug deaths. It’s Scotland’s oil. It’s scotland’s asset and it should not be England’s and American’s establishment profiting from it, it should be the people of Scotland, our children and grandchildren who profit from it. And this would have been the case if instead of a political fraud batting for the other side what we had in control of Scotland’s government and the SNP was a proper nationalist FM, one that protects the interests of Scotland rather than sacrificing them for the sake of those of England’s elite. One that safegardes our assets instead of handing them over.

      Now that I have learned about this oil field being started to produce oil in 2022, I have not a shadow of a doubt this political fraud has wasted 6.5 years of Scotland’s time and is prepared to waste another 10 so the English establishment can drain that massive oil field dry leaving Scotland, once again, barren with nothing.

      This new oil deposit is just another example of how Scotland is being pillaged and how those who are tasked to protect our interests like this FM are instead betraying Scotland for the sake of England’s elite interests and helping them to drain Scotland of wealth.

      The protest against the oil field is another example of the continuous gaslighting Scotland is being subjected to, just like the visit of the blond buffoon to the offshore wind farm.

      Considering that the English establishment stands to make an absolute fortune out of the draining of that massive oil deposit, are we expected to believe now that suddenly, the blond buffoon, the tories and the English establishment that pulls his strings suddenly developed a conscience for the environment and an interest in wind farms?

      yeah, right.

      No other country in the world considers the discovery of massive oil deposits as a burden. Yet, here in Scotland we are constatnly being gaslighted to think it is a burden and we are better off without it. And all because we have a extremely greedy neighbour that wants the full benefit from it and we have useless, corrupt and unprincipled politicians in control of Scotland who fall over themselves to hand everything of value to that neighbour.

      I cannot begin to describe the contempt I have for this FM. An utterly and completely useless Scotland’s FM as there ever was one. Absolutely useless to protect Scotland’s interests. Absolutely useless to protect Scotland’s assets. Absolutely useless to push Scotland’s autonomy to protect Scotland’s citizens of a pandemia. Absolutely useless to deliver democracy. Absolutely useless to protect our autonomy. Absolutely useless to abide by international law and respect Scotland’s legitimate right to self determination. Absolutely useless at understanding and safeguarding Scotland’s popular sovereignty, rights and powers. But hey, she is the best asset the labour party and of course Westminster have ever had in Scotland.

      So, when did she met her boss Starmer during his last visit to patronise the Scottish people? Are we expected to believe that the two leaders of the two main England parties have been to Scotland at the same time and they did not visit their asset?

      That 20 year old young lady says she is worried about her future. Well, if she is worried about her future she should be demanding the political fraud to stop procrastinating and start acting as a fckng leader and a pro independence FM by delivering independence to protect Scotland’s assets instead of haemorraging them. She has wasted us 6.5 years already. She has wasted us countless powers and the control of several assets. Now she is losing us years of revenues from the oil in that combo oil field.

      When enough is enough?

    137. Hatuey says:

      Scott: “labelling those who have chosen not to have this vaccine as anti-vaxxers is an absurd stance to take”

      Why? It seems like a suitably descriptive word to me —what would you rather we call them?

      I’m all ears.

    138. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mia 9.33 pm

      Given the circumstances and location you’d think the pertinent question would have related to why her government was cutting off funding for the Govanhill Law Centre?

      Young people these days, honestly 🙂

    139. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 9.38 pm

      Trans-vaxxers you vile vaxphobe. ;-P

    140. Republicofscotland says:

      Mia @9.33pm.

      Its patently obvious to me that the SNP have be infiltrated, and are now on a go slow, if not a complete halt to Scottish independence.

      If the (IRA) and the (NUM) can be infiltrated to the very top the SNP can also fall victim to this and I believe they have.

      A bit of background reading on the length of the British states arm.

      https://campbellmartin.blogspot.com/2020/09/british-spies-in-snp.html

      https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-03-16-britains-secret-political-police/

      https://powerbase.info/index.php/National_Public_Order_Intelligence_Unit

      https://undercoverresearch.net/overview-targeted-family-justice-campaigns-overview-spycops-targets-family-justice-campaigns/

    141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      You know what gets me?

      I’m watching The Proclaimers documentary on Channel 9 (BBC Scotland). And Muriel Gray goes on about their using their own accent is SO good.

      She’s such a hypocrite!

      Enough from me. She’s a Tit!

    142. Mia says:

      @Andy Ellis

      This political fraud has been handing Scotland’s assets over to England like sweeties for 6.5 years. Sorry, I do not fall for that environment protest. I am convinced it is more gaslighting, just like the continuous gaslighting the Scottish people has been subjected to for over 40 years because Scotland has oil that the English ruling elite want for themselves.

      How many billions per year of revenue from that Scotland’s oil field is the political fraud going to haemorrhage from Scotland for her deliberately delaying independence?

      I think we should start adding up the real economic cost of having this political fraud for 6.5 years in control of Scotland’s government and the SNP. Her 6.5 years of “blunders” have certainly not been cheap. We complained about the 6000 sq miles of territorial waters labour stole from Scotland right before opening Holyrood and handed over to England, but I think the worth of this oil deposit together with all the powers and assets the political fraud has already handed over to England, including the NHS and the water, the shale gas licences in Scotland, the number of unnecessary deaths due to COVID and the economic damage her continuous lockdowns have inflicted on Scotland because she couldn’t find the backbone to lock the borders, the expensive civil and criminal cases against Mr Salmond, the cost of the parliamentary inquiry and of course the cost of the malicious prosecutions actually surpasses that by a mile.

      I am sick of the procrastination, sick of being patronised, sick of this woman’s contempt for democracy and self determination and sick of the continuous undermining of Scotland’s assets under her watch so England can continue bleeding Scotland dry.

    143. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      7 August, 2021 at 9:23 pm

      @Scott 8.17 pm

      You may find my writing style bland (and well done you for searching out and apparently reading my thesis

      I do find it bland. You are so sure of your own position that you use ad hominem attacks, false equivalence and the odd non sequitur to defend it. A classic deflection tactic.

      As for the thesis, I read some of it; the subject at hand wasn’t interesting enough to read all of it.

      [Analysing a thesis is a tick box exercise, in effect. (No bubbles are intended to be burst)]

    144. Fred says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      “I wonder if my daughters cancer patient friend who died of Covid in his mid 20’s would be thanking all the anti-vaxxers”

      I wonder also if the still grieving parents of this young man would be at all comfortable with a pointedly resentful and acerbic individual using their son’s tragic and untimely death to score points on, what, an independence blog?

    145. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Andy Ellis,

      I’d like to buy you a dram one day. You have an interesting perspective and a likeable way of posting.

      Tinto Chiel, thankyou for your measured and well reasoned post . That was very gracious. I haven’t really noticed Dan until the notion he took against Andy Ellis.

      With Covid we all have strong views. Much like Scottish Independence, there is much passion.

      My own perspective has seen first hand how many lives the Covid vaccines have saved. That is an undeniable fact: Covid saves lives. It reduces lethality.

      Covid vaccine ain’t perfect. But here’s another point of view from studying how other nations’ media views the UK (the BBC ain’t ever going to tell the truth without putting it through the UK Government editorial system first).

      The international community are aghast at the UK and Tokyo. The latter for holding a two week self-indulgent extended sports.

      But by far, the worst offender, the U.K. and Boris bringing in HERD IMMUNITY.

      The government policy that dare not speak its name.

      The international community have cried us the UK Petrie Dish.

      As for those anti-vaxxers who have been DONALD TRUMPED, please go into your local Covid Hospital Ward and see what NHS Staff have to do. Go a round with the Peristeen bowel cleaning duty nurse for Covid patients who are on ventilators.

      I fear there is no point in arguing with an ant-vaxxers. Just find it difficult to be sympathetic to the dying anti-vaxxers on American television crying because they didn’t get vaccinated and are now headed for the ICU ward to go into a ventilator with a 50% chance of dying.

      Darwin was correct. There is a website somewhere that features Covidiots and anti-vaxxers.

      Meanwhile ON TOPIC as per the list drawn up by Chris Cairns in reference to Sturgeon The Betrayer.

      Might I gently nudge things back towards a true Scottish patriot who has gotten us closer to Independence than any other person in history (alive or deceased).

      The more I watch the Alex Salmond show, the sadder I get because I realise SCOTLAND WOULD BE INDEPENDENT BY NOW if Alex had re-entered politics.

      No wonder Sturgeon was wetting herself trying to frame her former mentor and get him jailed for life.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-ghwfdzmo

      That video is of a true statesman.

      P.S Jaggy the Sturgeon-apologist and anti-Salmondite, maybe avert your eyes. Also is that something brown on your nose? Maybe not get so close to Sturgeon or at least wear a nasal prophylactic to save your dignity. Jaggy have you got anymore anti-Salmond funny howlers to call the new Alba Party yet? You know, the one WE ALL ASKED ALEX SALMOND TO START TO SAVE US FROM STURGEON. Or even rename your own website: JerkyBlog.com Written by a self-promoting ingrate jerk? JerkyBlog.com – aims to emulate PayPal Paul and boost his click rate to buy a new house.

    146. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a different way of looking at the whole ‘bug/vaccine’ thing…

      If you accept that people such as the late Chooky Embra and Stanley Johnson are typical of a certain mind-set (i.e. that of the people who actually have real power) then they should be taken seriously when they openly state what, to them, is ‘the truth’.

      Because no matter how outlandish it may sometimes appear to us plebs, we have to remember that we *are* just plebs, and don’t think the way our superiors do. We just can’t. And they know we can’t.

      To them, we are livestock. Calling us ‘subjects’ is, in their eyes, a very great honour – one we don’t appreciate nearly enough.

      I posted a link here, yesterday, to the full Guardian interview (*) with Stanley Johnson (2012) – a brief segment has gone viral on Twitter, sparking a rash of rebuttals and ‘explanations from so-called ‘fact-finders’. The controversial segment is at approx 22mins.

      Regardless of how one interprets the whole interview, the one solid fact is this – Johnson spoke the truth as he sees it. He stated his sincere belief that Britain having a projected population of 70 million is just ‘ridiculous’ and that he would be much happier if it were ‘around the 15 million mark’. He wasn’t joking. And he underscored the longevity of his interest in this subject by referring to a paper he wrote for the Conservative Party, in 1972, entitled ‘Why Britain Needs A Population Policy’. (which is available for purchase via GoodReads, if anyone’s that interested.)

      It doesn’t matter what ‘we’ think of these comments, because Stanley’s just ‘Boris’s Dad’ and has always been a bit of a joke, yah? It doesn’t matter that Boris, along with his siblings, listened to their father and absorbed his ideas every bit as keenly as the rest of us did with our Da’s. Prince Philip doesn’t matter – it’s easy to dismiss him as a racist oaf who joked that he wanted to be reincarnated as a deadly virus which would wipe out most of humankind.

      It doesn’t matter that Johnson and Phil The Greek both gained prominent positions (in their respective ‘organisations’) developing policy on environmental concerns. It doesn’t matter that Phil was President of the WWF when everyone knew that he enjoyed nothing better than legally blasting the living daylights out of any large creature he could find, at home or abroad. And it certainly doesn’t matter that Stanley Johnson was trying to develop a population policy for Britain whilst fathering six children.

      I could rant on about this stuff all night, but I’ll spare ye – just please consider this…

      Robert McNamara, in ‘The Fog Of War’, outlined 11 Lessons he’d learned in his long life. The first was ‘Empathize With Your Enemy.’

      So, let’s imagine that people like Stanley Johnson and Phil (God rest ‘im) are honestly articulating the concerns of the elite. The global population has to be reduced. Drastically.

      And they see it as their duty. It’s The White Man’s Burden, redux…

      So, if you accept that that’s how *they* view it, and if you acknowledge that they have the power to do it. (Because let’s face it, we don’t.)

      How would you do it?

      Have a Third World War?

      You can’t just get reps of monarchies to have a long weekend at a stately pile, ‘Remains of the Day’-style. People now are too clued-up generally. And too comfortable. They’re simply not going to allow themselves to be marched off to war.

      Nuke them?

      Nah, it’ll just poison the planet even more.

      Kill them via cancers introduced via shite food and tampered-with water supplies?

      Hmm, mibbe, but that’s too slow…

      So, how would you go about it?

      Eh?

      Hatuey?

      Andy?

      Just being logical, and objective, how would you tackle this particular ‘problem’?

      Genuinely curious for your thoughts.

      Because I’m fucked if I can think of a more effective method than what’s happening right now.

      * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpMTz1pICGE

    147. Gary45% says:

      Oh Look, there’s a GIANT FU**ING SQUIRREL.
      And the YOONS win again.
      WoS, too thick for Independence.( Just read above for proof)
      SIMPLES.

    148. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: Bojo Senior may be seriously deranged, but he’s only spouting the same old eugenicist crapola that the Rothschilds and their like have been ejaculating for a long time of long times.

      I’m ok with it as long we start the winnowing out at the top, removing the “worthless eaters” like the royals, nobility and other establishment toadies and genuflectors until we are left with the real contributors to society, from the hypothetical, eternal wee post mistress at Muckle Flugga to the sort of selfless guy who built Calum’s Road on Raasay.

    149. robert graham says:

      Aye Al you know it all dont you ?

      by the way ventilators are not being used anymore ,forced Oxygen is now the preferred method it looks like a Space helmet I know because I was on one its like sticking your head out of a car window at speed .

      Don’t you find it strange that nothing is being prescribed for anyone contracting the Plague its ICU or nothing what no cure for the wee bugger that can’t be identified

      Aye everything is far from normal when deaths due to the Flu were 10 times as many without this Hysterical response remember the FLU a cure has suddenly been discovered aye ok

    150. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tinto Chiel (11.23) –

      Johnson doesn’t ‘sound’ deranged though, does he? He appears to be ‘intensely relaxed’ about it all (i.e. advocating a cull of humankind), presumably because he’s used to doing so without much resistance. He certainly didn’t get much from yon Vidal character.

      Alan Clarke was another one who perhaps spilled just a bit too much, giving us oiks some wee clues to work with.

      I daren’t comment on your ‘winnowing’ idea…

      (But it’s a fuckin belter!)

      😉

    151. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: I’ll admit you caught me musing while slipping into my winceyette PJs with Velcro attachments but I would respectfully point out that the reason he doesn’t sound deranged is the clincher that he is so far down the rabbit hole that he’ll meet himself coming back, Klein Bottle-style.

      Onnyhoo: may The Force be with you.

      PS: wasn’t Alan Clarke the guy who actually found Mags Thatcher sexually attractive?

      OFFS!

      *Thousand yard stare*

    152. Mist001 says:

      On the other hand of course, England taking Scotlands oil reduces the risk of an invasion or regime change by the USA.

    153. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Robert Graham,

      You are wrong. Dead wrong.

      Also, last time I looked, Wings Over Scotland was a website where Scottish Independence was a top subject for discourse. Why and how every thread has become an anti-vaxxers playground is beyond reason.

      Robert, please read every single story about SCOTTISH COVID DEATHS here…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52441285

      Sadly, one of my friends is on that list which is why I am a bit prickly about the anti-vaxxers.

      Robert, until you have read every single word about the tragedies of those real world Covid deaths, please can you kindly fornicate off and do not darken my door. Prick.

    154. Hatuey says:

      I think that’s the closest we’ve ever gotten to you outlining your viewpoint on any of this, Brotherhood.

      So, basically, there’s potentially an argument along the lines of ‘the vaccine is possibly being used to kill off about 75% of the population who the rich and powerful think are surplus to requirements and having a negative impact on the environment…”

      I’m going to struggle to answer that seriously without sounding like I’m trying to wind people up, but I’ll give it a try.

      First thing, the vaccine appears to be saving lives, not killing people. All the evidence suggests it’s saving a lot of lives in the UK right now. If we are going to doubt the data and all the doctors and experts on this — and possibly assume they’re all in on the plot — well, we are well and truly down a rabbit hole…. and well and truly fucked.

      Secondly, not only do we have lots of data, science, doctors, and experts who suggest the opposite (that the vaccine is saving lives, not killing people), we have lots of corroborating evidence that suggests the rich and powerful are keen to get back to business as usual rather than kill billions of people.

      Third, most importantly, there’s virtually no evidence outside of those videos you link to that supports the mass extermination theory.

      We can see what the rich and powerful are doing every second of every minute on the stock market and there’s no indication that they are planning for a future with dramatically less people. On the contrary, it’s very much business as usual there, and there’s a lot of optimism.

      Lots of us think there are too many people on the planet and have concerns about the environmental impact, pollution, etc. That doesn’t mean we want to mass murder billions of people. And there are potential solutions outside of mass extermination.

      The attitude of the rich and powerful to climate change is written everywhere in lights. There’s no real attempt to hide it. They simply don’t give a fuck. Most of them undoubtedly think their wealth will allow them to ride it out unscathed, whatever happens, and they are probably right.

      If it gets really bad and wipes out billions of people, well, from the uncaring bastard’s perspective you hint at, that would be a solution, not a problem. There’s actually a science behind that too, called Gaia Theory which I sort of believe in…

    155. Clavie Cheil says:

      I must congratulate pissy wee NZ on winning 7 Olympic Gold medals

      How dare those poor wee thick colonial upstarts dare to out-perform the Brit Master Race in per capita terms in winning medals.

      How Dare those pissy wee Norwegians win two track Golds at the same Olympics and even have the temerity to have a track WR.

      Definitely not a case of Britannia Britannia Uber Alles.

    156. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      8 August, 2021 at 12:47 am

      I think that’s the closest we’ve ever gotten to you outlining your viewpoint on any of this, Brotherhood.

      So, basically, there’s potentially an argument along the lines of ‘the vaccine is possibly being used to kill off about 75% of the population who the rich and powerful think are surplus to requirements and having a negative impact on the environment…

      Then, finally, you acknowledge the plausibility of such a plan, which is what Ian’s point actually was.

      To claim that there are only vaxxers and anti-vaxxers shows that totalitarianism is your bag. Vaccination for breakfast, lunch and tea every day is delicious at this time of year, I hear?

      “If it gets really bad and wipes out billions of people, well, from the uncaring bastard’s perspective you hint at, that would be a solution, not a problem. There’s actually a science behind that too, called Gaia Theory which I sort of believe in…”

      Gaia hypothesis pits living organisms against their inorganic exterior, the thing organisms originate from in the first place. Sounds a riveting read.

    157. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      At last.

      Thank goodness for this. The Covid vaccine being properly discussed. Spitting Image style, and boy, are they spitting…

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CTqwQPe1z7U

    158. Hatuey says:

      Scott: “finally, you acknowledge the plausibility of such a plan, which is what Ian’s point actually was.”

      In the biggest comment I’ve possibly ever made, I flatly rejected the “plan”. You’re confusing my determination to answer seriously and without ridicule for an acknowledgement of the plausibility.

      Gaia Theory, in a nutshell, postulates that organic systems will self regulate. There’s good evidence of that happening at various levels, but I wouldn’t want to bore you.

    159. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      8 August, 2021 at 2:10 am

      I’m eligible for the flu vaccine now, but won’t be accepting the offer.
      I’ve not had symptomatic infection for 30 years, am I an anti-vaxxer?

      Your position is that of a fascist enabler so far, tbh.

      In the land of the vaxxers, the no-eyed needle is king.

    160. Clavie Cheil says:

      Re Covid 19 and Flu Vaccines – The Rich effin Tory Yoons want Lebensraum. From their point of view there are too many prols in the UK and by that I mean too many Jocks, Taffs and Micks and other peasants in the Britisher Isles. They would love nothing more than Covid 19 and the Flu to wipe us all out. They wont loose any sleep over mass murder like their spiritual leaders from 1930’s Germany. Herd Immunity Uber Alles!!!!

    161. James Che. says:

      This indoctrine of taken vaccines no questions asked or accepted is amazingly naive as a believe system.
      We know that sometimes governments are not honest with their citizens if they can make big gains financially.
      And if they have to kill or end lives on a mass scale to achieve this aim so be it.

      Think Iraq war and the propaganda from MSM and ministers in Britain and you have the facts that life is not important to them,

      Think of the Horishima bomb on innocent civilians and children, not on the main army or head quarters. But indiscriminate.

      Of course excess humans are disposable with no qualms.

      And think of all the mothers and children that suffered due to thalidomide being prescribed, children born disformed because (governments did not check) let it be used by expectant mother?

      So If you do not mind to much I will wait to see if your still posting here in two or three years time,
      I am not anti vaccination at all, but I am known to be cautious.

      And becoming ill due to close down of the NHS under covid has rocked my faith in the medical hypocritically oath.

    162. James Che. says:

      Amendment. Hypocrisy of the medical hypocritical oath.

    163. James Che. says:

      Bl..dy spell checker.

    164. Scott says:

      Adam Smith, the darling of the capitalist village-idiots, warned about mental mutilation.

      Marx’ theory of alienation is rarely given airtime.

      Yet here we are…

      Stuck in a self-creating corollary where freewill is for local people, forever alienating and mentally abusing future populations.

      Because human nature or some other undefinable ‘quality’, no doubt.

      To gain total herd immunity in society against a viral contagion is impossible. Like reproduction rates, there’s a tipping point when it comes to desired effect on population.

      If the unvaccinated aren’t reducing their chance of future infection/transmission to an arbitrary 50/50, similarly with symptom severity, then statistically there exists a cohort of the unvaccinated that has a paradoxical effect of reducing infection rates & transmission. Keeping the rate of vaccination at its needed level is what’s needed wrt effect.

      Newborn children would need to be vaccinated to stand any chance too, even if the mother and/or father had taken all offered doses.

      This in no way supports a team A nor Team B when analysing the narrative, simply presenting herd immunity in terms of statistical analysis.

      (If newborns were the only cohort that weren’t vaccinated, it would increase the rate of transmission and infection, a paradox in itself.)

      Using statistics from when nobody was vaccinated still produces a total survival rate of the world’s population, using the axiomatic assumption that everyone will test positive.

      Vaccinating everyone with something that has an efficacy range of death to complete via 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

      I’ve never had a yellow fever jag. I’d accept not being able to visit places that required me to take it, if my assessment of its reported effects created safety doubts specific to me.

      Am I an anti-vaxxer at increased risk of yellow fever infection?

    165. Scott says:

      Back on topic of Scottish independence, the fact remains that Scotland could operate as an independent sovereign state.

      This has already been acknowledged by the very existence of the first referendum.

      We therefore don’t actually need one, do we?

      Convention is that the crowns are unified on matters of state, and any legal challenge that makes the proroguing of parliament unlawful has the effect of erasing royal assent having ever been sought.

      The Court of Session judgement is the creator of that particular paradox. The Crown of Scotland must be a fucking time machine too according to the common law of England.

      Scots Law in the union has its hands bound, and yet…

      Independence is possible.

      Scots Law isn’t supine.

      The Common Travel Area can continue, given Ireland’s denial of the claim of right of the Crown of Ireland has never been an impediment nor its political independence.

      Currency based on value of Scotland plc on the day before Day 1.

      There would be no deferred liabilities woven through the balance sheet. Zero debt & notional economy value of [£n billion] on a going concern basis.

      That value is being underwritten as I type by the Bank of England. (Scottish notes aren’t GBP, but are pegged to it for equivalence by contract)

      the currency of Scotland already exists. The question has to be asked with regard to how much has been issued….it should match all GBP that’s ever been issued by BoE (QE included) to achieve balance of value, but that seems unlikely given the GERS figures…

    166. Breeks says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      8 August, 2021 at 1:05 am
      I must congratulate pissy wee NZ on winning 7 Olympic Gold medals

      How dare those poor wee thick colonial upstarts dare to out-perform the Brit Master Race in per capita terms in winning medals.

      I’m gonna be miserable and disagree. NZ entered a biologically male competitor into female weightlifting, and it was endorsed by the Olympic Committee. That isn’t just cheating and misogyny, it is the beginning of the end for women’s sport.

      Any why? It’s all for what? To flatter the delusions of a selfish, self centred male who wants to defy science, deny what he is, and be a female?

      When the Eastern European teams were enhancing their female athletes with male hormones it was described as cheating. Now the artificial hormones are the only female component in the athlete, and that’s apparently fine? I’m afraid that’s bullshit.

      To my mind, it doesn’t flatter New Zealand to be this desperate to win a medal. They should do the right thing by their wives, sisters and daughters, and encourage them to be all that they can be in a world of sport and competitive achievement that is fair. Letting their men “beat” their women at sport is a betrayal of sport.

      Watching sport with a built in bias is less evenly matched than a lightly armoured Retarius fighting a heavily armoured Murmillo gladiator in the Roman coliseum. At least the bias and distinction was acknowledged. For a man’s biological body to compete on “equal” terms against female biological bodies in a singular test of weightlifting capacity, is straightforward proof the sporting body has lost sight of what equal means, and indeed what sport is.

      What an absolute mockery that weightlifters are divided into weight categories to make the competition fair, but having a biologically male skeleton and musculature skips the rules of competition and is given a free, access all areas pass.

      Suppose Hubbard had won a medal in Tokyo. Precisely what would that medal have stood for?

      I felt it was a big enough sporting humiliation in 2007 when Frank Haddon admitted defeat before kick-off and put out a Scottish B team to face the All Blacks, and saw Scotland pumped 40 nil. I cheered for New Zealand doing it to. That’s NOT what Rugby was about, and Hadden should have been sacked on the spot. Explain the difference between that and match fixing? And what an insult to New Zealand.

    167. Tannadice Boy says:

      Breeks 7:36pm,
      I would agree with you post. I would add the mixed relay team format is a good innovation. For example the mixed triathlon relay team. Encourages men and women to work together. I thought the Scottish participants had a good Olympics. Muir, Kerr, Little in the womens football et al. Enjoyable sporting events.

    168. J.o.e says:

      Hatuey says:
      7 August, 2021 at 5:01 pm
      Joe, I can’t see the workers and their firms going for your plan.

      The system we call capitalism is full of problems and flaws. But it produces so many wonderful things.

      When workers go on strike today or people take to the streets, in 99% of cases it’s because they want more of capitalism’s fruits.

      There’s no alternative to capitalism anywhere outside of North Korea. The best we can hope to do is regulate it and file down some of its sharp and jagged edges.

      Your whole vibe is about 200 years out of date.

      History basically ended in 1989 as far as competing socio-economic and political systems are concerned. And that’s a good thing — if we are all the same, it removes a bunch of reasons for waging wars.

      Get into it.

      ———————————-

      I was running a portfolio of mainly US equities before Covid turned up. I noticed the changes Trump made to the US bond market (and mentioned it here) before anybody else was writing about it. I had to notice because it meant money to me. Im not going to go into detail but it basically ended the last illusion of a free market (it never was). A look at the US bond yield curve over time shows why it was done.

      What I also noticed around the covid situation that international corporations were largely singing the same tune – 4th industrial revolution, internet of things, 5G, everything changes. This is where I started to become suspicious. By having to spend hours each day looking through details of corporations I could easily see a trend.

      So I know capitalism. I can use capitalism to my advantage quite easily and I have done.

      If ordinary people were to start rejecting the big corporations and look for local alternatives where possible then this demand would encourage locals to get into business and start to keep money (and therefore power) in the local communities.

      This is more powerful than picking politicians.

      It also does not interfere unjustly with others who wish to do their own thing – it just creates demand for more local business which will ultimately serve people better than totalitarian corporations and actually serve as a basis for a real national economy. Y’know. Nationalism.

    169. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – I thought that Dundee United produced a fabulous display yesterday. That was one result I wasn’t expecting and I don’t think anyone else was either. I think they only had about 25% possession but if you don’t shoot you don’t score and Dundee United know that. It’s almost the same Dundee United side as last season, isn’t it – hardly any players in or out. Scottish football at its traditional best then.

      The other issue is nearly sorted-out now. Have I embellished this, or not embellished it enough, or am I completely wrong? Remember the Butterstone School case? Bill used to write in here a few months ago complaining that the Deputy First Minister was a lying and unaccountable rat and I have just had a similar experience.

      Back to the football – one note of caution for you; you’ll never get away with that week after week. In fact, it might not happen again all season.

    170. Scott says:

      Fun fact:

      If you cut a tennis ball in half and place it over some models of lock, you can use air pressure to unlock them.

      (If you live round the corner from a sports shop, you could pop in and suggest it to the bloke behind the counter as a way to boost sales during downturns, such as when Wimbledon isn’t on…)

      Meanwhile, at the bar…anyone fancy a pint?

    171. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Ye gads, you’ve gone full on zoomer now haven’t you? I mean…I know it was posted pretty late, but ye never go full zoomer. Believing that there’s some grand conspiracy amongst the world’s elites to cull the plebs is indistinguishable from those assuring us that the Illuminati are real, or that Bill Gates is an alien or the Royal family are lizards wearing human suits.

      It’s just bonkers. Get a grip. Nothing could be more calculated to harm the Yes movement than the determination of a small claque of noisy clapping seals in this place to divert every thread in to a discussion about Covid, and how it’s all a big hoax, or a conspiracy.

      At least the assertion by the nativists fringe nutters that depriving new Scots of the vote or restricting it to pure bloods was broadly an independence related issue, even if it was similarly unhinged.

      The congruence in membership of the two groups pushing these narratives is enlightening, as is the fact that neither of them has any appreciable popular support. They certainly seem to have next to zero traction amongst the leadership of any party either.

      Conjuring the ghost of dystopian futures à la “Man in a High Castle” might give you and your moon howling mates a bit of an intellectual stiffie Ian, but don’t expect the rest of us to take such fervid imaginings remotely seriously: it just makes you all look a bit well….odd.

    172. Andy Ellis says:

      @Al-Stuart 10.24 pm

      Sure that dram can be arranged at some point bud. As you say, it’s a fair fecht trying to school the Covidiot pork, but we all know, you can’t kill a bad idea!

      I’m sure there will be an opportunity to have a get together at some point: after all when Ian’s future is realised there’s going to be a lot more room for us all right…? 🙂

    173. Tannadice Boy says:

      Captain Yossarian 8:37pm
      Yay we are on a sporting high. Not often we get one over the old firm. Rangers unbeaten in 17 months in the league so it had to happen at some point. Still think they will win the league this year. United will do well to get in the top six. Shoestring budget. I didn’t go the game haven’t bought a season ticket this year. A choice I made reluctantly, too far from Tannadice now. On the politics front you can only set out your stall as you see it. This regime has sailed close and beyond the wind too often. A miscalculation will topple them and I detect that might be soon. Meanwhile they have blown a hole in the Independence case for the short to medium term and fractured the movement. But I wouldn’t get too comfortable the issue will be resurrected in the distant future.

    174. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Hatuey responded to the question, but didn’t answer.

      And he cites Gaia as an example of alternative thinking which has ‘science’ behind it.

      Well, whatever you think of James Lovelock, he too tells what he considers to be ‘truth’, and you can hear it in response to the very first question in this interview.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLA-Sn6bi-U

      (PS Andy, your comments are now just flat-out ad hominem, so I won’t be responding from now on.)

    175. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 10.17 pm

      “I do find it bland. You are so sure of your own position that you use ad hominem attacks, false equivalence and the odd non sequitur to defend it. A classic deflection tactic.”

      Good for you. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion. Nobody is trying to shut down debate or silence you. Pointing out that the Covidiot Emperor has no clothes might be seen by some as a public service of course, but for the vocal minority on here the light is an unwelcome friend. I’m not deflecting anything, I’m stating them quite openly. If there’s deflection going on here, it’s not from my side but from the ranks of the a-scientific anti-vaxxers. Of course, unlike most of the clapping seals I’m also not a snivelling anonymous coward without the courage to put my own name to my views, so there is that….

      “As for the thesis, I read some of it; the subject at hand wasn’t interesting enough to read all of it.”

      I hadn’t realised it was publicly available, but as I said, kudos for searching it out. Doubtless the academics who examined the thesis and put me through the viva voce felt it merited being passed irrespective of your feeling that it is bland?

      I suppose it’s not that surprising that you wouldn’t find the subject matter that interesting unless it was a topic you were interested in. In fairness I doubt many people would sit down and read any PhD thesis cover to cover out of interest. PhD theses tend to be pretty specific and aren’t generally written or read for their entertainment value. I will however treat your stylistic appraisal of something I wrote 30 years ago with all the consideration it merits.

      Given what I post elsewhere I still find it more than a little creepy that you’d feel the need to search out, read and dismiss a 30 year old PhD thesis (if indeed it is even true) to score what you obviously feel are “slam dunk” points in response to my current arguments, because you regard my writing style as “bland”. It smacks a bit of obsessive behaviour: you know the kind of thing we’d all have decried the Better Together mob for doing when they tried to other the Cybernat 7, or the kind of thing TRA’s do now to those guilty of wrong think.

      You must be a hoot at parties when you regale them of your detective work tracking down 30 year old PhD theses to use as ammo in your online exchanges.

    176. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 9.36 am

      Given the woo-woo involved in your question it’s hardly surprising that no reasonable person would give it the time of day. Some opinions are just too daft to merit serious consideration.

      Given what I’ve seen and heard recently in the BTL comments from various Covidiots, I would expect nothing better of you frankly. I’m sure we’ll both be happier as a result.

    177. JimuckMac says:

      Why do so many on here still believe in the Covid 19 virus and a pandemic? I have provided all the evidence to show you that there never was a pandemic, or a Covid 19 virus.

      Indoctrination at its finest.

    178. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – on the subject of independence, I’m not a Nationalist but if it’s right then I will go-along with it. I’m not a hard-liner by any stretch of the imagination.

      I remember some time ago you said that engineering was in safe hands. Well, it is and you were right. What I notice is that everyone is afraid of them just now. They’ve been doing it for 200-years. I’m sure they have made a few mistakes in that time but I’m not aware of them – are you?

      Back to the football. It’s very important to keep a perspective, a measured and balanced outlook and a level head. We all support the teams our father’s supported and it’s as simple as that in Scotland.

      Therefore, on balance, I’m coming round to the view that yesterday’s result was a great muckle smash and grab carried-out by the vandals of Dundee on the unsuspecting day-trippers from Glasgow. Am I right there?

    179. Andy Ellis says:

      @JimuckMac 10.00 am

      “Why do so many on here still believe the world is a sphere/rotates round the sun/the moon landings were real [delete according to moon phase and how your chakra is aligned]?

      I have provided all the evidence to show you that the world is flat/the sun rotates around the earth/the moon landings were filmed in Iceland.

      Indoctrination at its finest.”

      Eppur si muove.

    180. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 August, 2021 at 9:53 am

      @Scott 10.17 pm

      “As for the thesis, I read some of it; the subject at hand wasn’t interesting enough to read all of it.”

      I hadn’t realised it was publicly available, but as I said, kudos for searching it out. Doubtless the academics who examined the thesis and put me through the viva voce felt it merited being passed irrespective of your feeling that it is bland?

      I knew it would be available to the public. Any thesis that adds a doctorate to your title stops becoming your sole property and is available to view by request. I wasn’t expecting to find a copy online.

      I only searched for it because of your use of it in defence of your right to be regarded as an expert on international relations. All it did was raise more questions about the veracity of your claim.

      You’re a pompous arse and would be no matter what username you chose. It’s almost like there’s no correlation.

    181. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 10.24 pm

      Only a pompous arse would assert that I had ever claimed a right to be regarded as an expert in International Relations.

      Only someone a tad obsessed would go to the trouble of requesting a 30 year old thesis to check up on something he’d (wilfully?) misinterpreted in comments BTL on pro-independence blogs.

      Your motivations are your own. Right now they look creepy as fuck. Perhaps you’re a Daily Heil journal? The MO sure fits….

    182. Mia says:

      “At least the assertion by the nativists fringe nutters that depriving new Scots of the vote or restricting it to pure bloods was broadly an independence related issue, even if it was similarly unhinged”

      This comes across as a deliberate provocation to change the subject of the thread, Andy Ellis. But if that is okay with you, I am not going to raise to your challenge today. I believe there is a far more important subject we should discuss today and that is the economic cost the political fraud and her spineless, quadriplegic SNP are inflicting on Scotland and have been inflicting for the past 6.5 years of stupid inaction and full compliance with, if not servitude, to the English ruling elite.

      I am surprised the so called “pro independence newspaper The NAtional” , has never focused on this subject. And one has to wonder why, because the economic burden the deliberate political inaction of this woman has inflicted on Scotland is rather significant.

      And if there is something voters understand, is the billions of their country’s revenue an incompetent politician, delierately or not, loses because of the mismanagement of the economy and assets.

      So how about we we give today the subject of the franchise a rest and we debate instead this other subject?

      Here is my proposal: let’s give the subject of the vaccine and the franchise a rest today and let’s look at how much money this political fraud has been/is wasting to Scotland.

      If we want the people of Scotland and whatever is left of the SNP to wake up and eject this political fraud from the driving seat, I think we stand a much better chance to do that if we have a solid economic argument to show to the voters for the upcoming council elections and then for the General Elections after that, don’t you think?

      At the end of the day, for as long as the political fraud remains in control of SGov and SNP MPs and MSPs continue to let her shred their backbones, tie their hands behind their backs and to continue gagging them (all of them politically and metaphorically speaking, of course), there will not be indyref in the near future.

      You and me bring diametrically opposed and incompatible perspectives in the matter of the franchise, that is a given. But I think at least we can agree on this: for as long as this political fraud remains in power, indyref is just the tool that is being used in collusion by the political fraud and the English establishment to continue denying Scotland its right to self determination and to continue pushing Scotland’s independence back.

      So how about we leave the discussions about the vaccine and the franchise for another day and today, those of us in this thread who want to see Scotland as an independent state before our time comes, who want to see this political fraud ejected from the driving seat to stop her inflicting more damage and economic loss on Scotland, and whose blood boils at watching how Scotland’s assets are being pillaged by our country neighbour with the blessing of a morally corrupt individual who is using pro independence votes to stop independence, join our minds and forces in an attempt to build up a draft of what could be a an invoice to send to the political fraud and her masters for all the cost this great pretender has been/still is inflicting on Scotland?

      Here are my suggestions to include in the invoice:

      1. the cost of losing Scotland’s NHS because the political fraud allowed the Internal Market bill to pass instead of delivering independence.

      2. the cost of losing Scotland’s water because the political fraud chose to look the other way and let the Internal market bill pass instead of progressing Scotland’s autonomy.

      3. The cost to Scotland’s farmers and the cost in jobs and publicity that the political fraud inflicted on Scotland by handing over to Westminster Scotland’s brand instead of delivering independence as her party was chosen to do.

      4. The cost of all those shale gas licences from Scotland that the UK government sold and pocketed all the money from, because the political fraud couldn’t/didn’t want to find the backbone to stop it by progressing independence so either those licences were not sold or the money was pocketed by Scotland in full instead.

      5. The enormous economic cost to Scotland that represents exiting the single market and customs union because instead of progressing independence, this political fraud chose to help the English ruling elite to unlawfully force their brexit on Scotland against its will and totally against Scotland’s interests.

      6. 6.5 years of revenues of Scotland being taken by England to progress its infrastructure vanity projects, ghost ferries,etc with absolutely no equivalence of expenditure in Scotland of revenues from England.

      7. 6.5 years of revenues from Scotland’s existing oil and gas fields.

      8. 6.5 years of Scotland being forced to share England’s debt and eyewatering trade deficit in goods, despite Scotland having no trade deficit in goods at all.

      9. 6.5 years of Scotland being forced to contribute to England’s preparation for her brexit and to survive its own political folly.

      10. Significant amount of revenues from Scotland lost because the corrupt government England put in power has been abusing its position of power to hand over COVID 19 related contracts to tory donors. This would not be the case if the political fraud had progressed Scotland’s independence as her party was elected to do.

      11. Eyewatering legal bills for all the times the corrupt English government chose to ignore correct procedures and break international law. Scotland would not have had to contribute to the cost of those bills if this political fraud had progressed Scotland’s independence as her party was elected to do.

      12. The economic and reputational cost of an embarrassing civil case caused by the greed of her government in attempting to eliminate a political opponent by implementing an unlawful, tainted by apparent bias complaints procedure.

      13. The eyewatering bills of an unnecessary criminal court case where some witnesses lied under oath with the aim of sending to prison an innocent man whose only sin was to fight for Scotland’s independence.

      14. The economic and reputational cost for the COPFS of preserving the anonymity of those who lied under oath in a criminal court

      15. The cost of coaching corrupt civil servants for the parliamentary inquiry

      16. The cost of the parliamentary inquiry

      17. The economic and reputational cost to the SGov, Civil Service, police, COPFS and Scottish justice System to suppress evidence that could see elements of the SGov and SNP being prosecuted.

      18. the loss of the ring fenced money

      19. The eyewatering bills that the protection of Murrell and the perjurers in the criminal court has costed to Scotland, both economically, democratically and reputationally.

      20. The financial and reputational cost to the COPFS, police and justice System in Scotland of malicious prosecutions

      21. The economic, and legal cost of fighting in court a single citizen with public backers with the sole purpose of deliberately denying Scotland its legitimate right to know if it can call a referendum without the veto of England MPs.

      22. The billions of pounds the political fraud has been haemorrhaging from Scotland in the form of oil/gas revenues because instead of finding a way for Scotland to enjoy those resources via independence, she has endeavoured for 6.5 years to derail independence so England can continue taking over 90% of those revenues instead.

      23. The loss of market for Scotland’s produce due to brexit. Not only Scottish produce has not benefit at all of the vacuum left by EU produce because England produce has filled the lot, but also has decreased its size of the market because England produce continues to encroach in Scotland’s share hiding behind UJs.

      24. The loss of revenue for Scotland because by not advancing independence, the fraud chose not to stop the extortionate costs the producers of electricity in Scotland have to pay to put electricity in the grid.

      25. the loss of revenue because the overproduction of electricity in Scotland is not traduced in revenues, but rather free electricity of England.

      26. The opportunity cost of keeping the area of Falsane underdeveloped so the warmongers in England can keep their phallic symbols in Scotland, far away enough from their constituencies so it does not become politically toxic for their parties.

      27. The cost of managing the risk of human and environmental health loss for the sake of allowing the England MP warmongers to keep England’s WMD in Falsane.

      28. The huge economic opportunity cost that means helping Westminster to keep Scotland’s ports underdeveloped and Scotland totally dependent on England’s ports.

      29. The loss of revenue and opportunity cost in terms of jobs and revenues that failing to develop Scotland’s airports so there is no longer a need for long haul flights from Scotland to stop in London, moving the revenues left in those London airports due to travellers from Scotland to Scotland’s airports instead. All because this political fraud refuses to progress Scotland’s independence as her party was elected to do.

      30. The billions that we now stand to lose from Combo oil field because the political fraud is choosing to use our yes votes to preserve the UK so England can continue siphoning the biggest chunk of the revenues from Scotland’s assets instead of delivering independence to, finally, allow the people of Scotland to enjoy the benefit from their own assets.

      31. The economic and environmental cost that allowing the English queen gerrymander our laws is going to inflict on Scotland

      32. The economic and life cost that following Westminster’s diktat on COVID matters has brought/will bring to Scotland because the political fraud could not bring herself to lock the borders.

      33. The economic cost that represents allowing Westminster to continue to keep Scotland economically underdeveloped and the human power loss due to young Scots having to emigrate somewhere else to find a job. All because this political fraud is refusing to deliver independence so Scotland can take control over its land and assets and generate jobs.

      34. The economic and demographic cost of allowing Westminster to dictate and impose on Scotland toxic immigration laws because this political fraud refuses to progress independence.

      35. The share that Scotland is forced to pay for the restoration and maintenance of historical buildings in England like the big ben, the English queen’s castles and the palace of Westminster when these are monuments Scotland is not going to get any benefit from when it becomes independent.

      That is the few things at the top of my head just now. I invite you and others to add items to the list and if they can, to put a price tag to each one of those item.

      They always tell us that we are too poor to become independence, but there has never been, to my knowledge, a counteracting study to show just how poor remaining in the UK is making Scotland.

      Let’s see the real cost Nicola Sturgeon has been/still is inflicting on Scotland because of her obstinate refusal to progress independence and uphold democracy.

      Are you up for it, Andy Ellis, or you are just interested in debating the franchise and the vaccine?

    183. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mia 10.35 am

      I debate what there is to debate, or not if I find it uninteresting. I’d prefer covid denial was given short shrift here as it is amongst the general public, but looks like there are just too many Covidiots infesting BTL comments here for that wish to be granted. Such is life. Sometimes I ignore them, sometime I engage: it kinda depends on what’s going on.

      I find the franchise discussion interesting and alarming in equal measure. I’m horrified at the number of folk (although thankfully I still believe they’re a relatively small if vocal minority) who take what is essentially a nativist position. I’m also disappointed and not a little amused at how thin skinned some of these roasters are, particularly in this place of all others given Rev Stu’s famously laid back online persona. Such delicate little flowers most of them. Who knew?!

      As to you question, no I’m not up to answering your 35 part plan. Like so many of your posts I’m afraid, TL/DR. Less is more Mia, seriously. You’re just the Cameron Brodie de no jours without (let’s be thankful for small mercies) the endless cut and paste secondary links.

      I’m not interested in sending pointless invoices to Sturgeon or her party, or attempting to engage them in meaningful debate about how spineless they are. Gradualist will do what they will do.

      We have to do something different. The answer – perhaps not the only answer, but it seems to me the most promising answer – is to ensure there is a plausible alternative to the current structures to help deliver independence.

      That alternative can only be a party like Alba. If Alba fails, we may as well simply accept that independence isn’t happening for a generation and go and do other things instead. If other people want to do something different, they can have at it. I wish them well.

    184. Marie M says:

      @Mia 10.35 am

      That would be very interesting to know. How much money has Scotland lost to Westminster since 2014?

    185. J Galt says:

      Andy Ellis@10.15am

      “the moon landings were filmed in Iceland”

      In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny – “What a Maroon!”.

      Everybody knows they were filmed in a Hollywood basement by Stanley Kubrick.

    186. Andy Ellis says:

      @ J Galt 11.22 am

      Apologies. I forgot to add the usual disclaimer to the end of my reply to the moon howlers above:

      *Terms and Conditions apply: other alternative universes are available.

    187. Scott says:

      @andy Ellis

      You’re deranged.

      You publicised the fact that you hold a PhD in the exact way that I stated.

      I know that any thesis is assessed wrt certain criteria, that don’t include an observor’s biased opinion. A thesis itself is marked down for that after all…

      A 30 year old thesis does not add gravitas to the output of any username btl on this site or any other. I’ve had the chance to peruse yours.

      Wilful disruption is your MO. How bland and original…

    188. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.
      Due to you having such a convincing and encouraging way for anti- vaxxers to take the vaccine by demeaning and name calling plus categorising as seals or some other nasty names.

      To convince us all here with you’re knowledge about the vaccine and it’s safety, would you be able to answer the following and categorically state by list,
      1) each vaccines full ingredients?

      2) Then after you have done that.
      We would not mind A few explanations as to ( you’re ) theory why our governments have given exemptions to the pharmaceutical companies from families whose family members died due to taking them taking the vaccine and why those deaths are not important to the pharmaceutical companies or our government ?

      3) if we are a democratic country, with freedom of choice, the right to vote, the right to protect ourselves and our bodies ,even from rogue governments, where does individual human rights come into you’re equation,?

      4) do you have a guarantee that you could copy or paste for us all to see here that the vaccine taken now will not effect births of future mothers or of our children whom will be the next generation of parents.
      And could you guarantee that these vaccines will not have a future effect in reduction of the birth rates in the future

      Please answer each category separately and clearly if you wish to convince us or to change our minds in the near future.

      The anti- vaxxers having an inquisitive mind, in general have gone through these question time and again being as they have the ability to think for themselves and worry about the quick fix vaccine that does not seem to be a to have helped ease the pressure on our NHS, or stopped vaccinated people being carriers and transmitters of the virus from one person to another. Thus maintaining pressure on the nhs.

      There is no request here for you to be condescending, derogatory, or verbally abusive.
      Just to clear up a few facts in listed categories above,

    189. Breastplate says:

      James,
      I would say you are wasting your time, he struggles with the meaning of anti-vaxxer, pontification and bloviation are his main utensils with a goodly helping of ad hominem.
      Dripping in condescension and self importance with no substance would be my opinion but maybe I’ve misjudged him.

    190. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Scott 11.28 pm

      I’ll leave it to others to judge who comes out as unhinged from this exchange. I know how the mechanics of it work, having gone through it.

      I never claimed authority based on the fact I have a PhD and any other random person I’m debating with may not. It is however germane to debates when know-nothings are telling me I don’t know about areas I do have specific knowledge of, or that I’m ignorant of the issues. there are many people out there with no academic training whose opinion I’d respect and be happy to interact with where it’s based on good faith discussions.

      It’s hardly exceptional to point out to some no-mark who tells you that you know nothing about the basics of you subject (which has happened on plenty of occasions in discussion about IR on here and elsewhere) that my background tends to undermine what passes for their argument.

      What is it you feel I’m disrupting exactly? Nobody is forced to interact. The anti-vaxxers and nativists on here don’t like my position and responses to their posts: so what? I don’t like theirs. Big whoop. Nobody is attempting to shut them down or silence them. We are free to say that we think they are tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists.

      Some people agree with me. Others don’t. I don’t think turning the BTL comments section of this place into anti-vaxxer and blood and soil nativism central is particularly helping the indy case, but it isn’t my site and as we’ve seen it’s kinda running down at present anyway.

      I wouldn’t take your opinion on anything at face value, whether it’s on blandness or originality. Your contributions seem to focus primarily on a fixation with my PhD thesis. It all seems a bit unhinged. Go figure.

    191. J.o.e says:

      lol

      It is truly insane when a plethora of people with power (political and/or financial) can openly talk about how it is necessary to lower populations and it be considered fruitcake conspiracy theory to be concerned by it.

      Even if they were all just having a laugh it would be arrogance of the highest level to mock people for showing some concern especially given the things that have gone on just in living memory.

      Andy – you truly are a fucking arse.

      Thats an honest ad hominem.

    192. robbo says:

      While everyone blabbers on about covid this, covid that. Vaccine aye, vaccine – naw, spare a thought for that wee man Messi .

      On telly whinging about and crying crocodile tears cos the Spanish FA have a cap on spending money in the league on wages. There’s a guy who’s made millions over the years and at 34 or whatever is fucking whinging about how he can’t get more.

      Fuck off Messi. You maybe a gid footballer but while most parents find in hard to even feed their kids you whinge about not getting a bigger contract to buy a new ferrari or whatever.

      Makes me sick.

    193. Mia says:

      “Less is more”

      Is it?

      Just like those “environmental” activists are expecting the people of Scotland to believe that it is “more” not having “the burden” of a massive oil deposit that would bring hundreds of billions in revenue and jobs to Scotland, while England shows no moral burden in exploiting Scotland’s massive oil deposits “burden” and to take all the revenues for itself?

      Is that the kind of “less is more” you have in mind?

      How about you lead by example with your “less is more” philosophy, Andy Ellis?

      You could start with less waffle, less excuses and more meaningful discussion.

      So, are you going to engage in the debate at all or you are just going to use my style of writing or the franchise as your debate escape clauses, just like Sturgeon is cynically using indyref as her personal escape clause to avoid delivering independence?

      Are you really more preoccupied for ensuring the English establishment has an unlocked back door to frustrate Scotland’s independence if their political asset in Scotland can no longer resist delivering indyref, than to actually help others learn just how much revenues and resources Nicola Sturgeon is haemorrhaging from Scotland because she continues to deliberately denying us independence?

      Are you comfortable with a political fraud squandering the Scottish assets that should be Scotland’s children and grandchildren heritage and their insurance to ensure their country can prosper economically and demographically as an independent state?

      Are you comfortable with a political fraud decreasing the chances Scotland may have to be economically viable as an independent state because she is deliberately handing those chances and prospects to other countries instead?

      How many more obstacles are you prepared to put in front of the Scottish people so England can continue to derail Scotland’s independence in order to continue to take from Scotland’s children and grandchildren their country’s wealth, Andy Ellis?

      “That alternative can only be a party like Alba”

      And how do you expect to move SNP votes towards ALBA, Andy Ellis? By political osmosis? By telepathy? By boring voters to death with the franchise, a meaningless civic nationalism and COVID?

      I am proposing an effective method that the voters will most certainly understand: Economic cost.

      Less revenue for Scotland is more revenue for England, that is an undebatable certainty in this union. But to my knowledge nobody has actually engaged in showing publicly just how much is what Scotland is losing out in revenue and opportunity cost so England can have its more.

      I propose to create a draft for our own knowledge but also to

      1. show prospective unionist voters how much money Scotland is losing out for remaining in a political union specifically designed for England to siphon everybody else’s resources, to deliberately keep other members of the union as consumers so it can ship its own produce and to use everybody else’s markets as if they were and extension of its own.

      2. show SNP voters and Sturgeon’s faithful just how much money Nicola Sturgeon’s obstinacy and procrastination has lost Scotland in 6.5 years and counting for her accidental or deliberate incompetence at progressing Scotland’s autonomy

      Where is your proposal?

      Mentioning ALBA every now and then to ensure people continue to think you support independence?

      Continue to bore readers to tears by building castles in the air over a meaningless “civic nationalism” to justify a franchise that leaves a door wide open for rigging of the vote by the British state?

      Or to help Murray Foote’s and unionist trolls to derail this pro indy political blog, putting off independence supporters by engaging in neverending debates about COViD and vaccines that help nothing at all to progress independence?

      How much do you want Scotland’s independence?

      Actually, do you want independence at all, Andy Ellis? Because to be frank, from your comments it is not that clear that you do.

    194. James Che. says:

      Mia.
      On you’re list is some good questions, there is a “but” though, and I think you miss a few on you’re list.

      Talking about covid is not a sideline issue, as I have tried time and again to explain For the following reasons.

      The sovereignty of your own body is where any sovereignty begins,
      When you have lost that right, you also loose all other sovereignties rights related to you by a de facto.
      How can you or I claim sovereignty for Scotland and it Scottish people if you are willing to give it up?

      And we do have sovereignty as is in written terms and recorded in history,
      It angers me that some people in Scotland whom are for our country to become sovereign. they search for all sorts of imaginations to find a way past the snp and Scottish government, going on and on trying to state this fact or that crime against the Scottish people .
      We are the biggest sinners ever when it come to unrecognised sovereignty and what the highest of achievements can be found and quickly to sort out Westminster, the SNP and the Scottish government.

      And here comes the “BUT”.
      “We”want complications, and “We” want to do this the hard way, “We” want to play follow the bad leaders and crooked system.

      For goodness sake,
      The easy and short answer is lying at your feet being ignored. Doh!

    195. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 August, 2021 at 11:54 am

      @ Scott 11.28 pm

      I’ll leave it to others to judge who comes out as unhinged from this exchange. I know how the mechanics of it work, having gone through it.

      Your rebuttal contains no evidence in support of your assertions.

      1. You’ve introduced strawmen from the outset.
      2. You have no basis on which to assess my academic status or class…
      3. Having a disruptive MO is used to control the narrative via obfuscation and plain gainsaying, not to end it. ‘Silencing the debate’ is a product of your imagination only.

      Your position has zero credibility when subject to analysis.

      When modelling any data sets, all scenarios are considered.

      You might not be an egomaniac, you might be pretending. You might be neither. Likewise, you might be both, but cause and effect cannot be established. You might be paid to post drivel. A perfect job for an egomaniac that can act, btw. It may be a sock puppet account that knows about the thesis.

      If vaccination had been available from day one, deaths would not have reached the levels seen.

      The corollary being that total vaccination isn’t required. The sweet spot will be found re boosters, but only through observed data.

      12 months of no vaccine followed by forever with, yet the first bit has lost context to the well intended fascist enabler, the deranged and others.

      Castigating the unvaccinated is as logical as reminding the vaccinated that the booster could be crucial 24/7.

      Worse than that, you espouse the ‘less is more’ mantra to Mia….like the hypocritical fascist you may be.

      Andy Ellis is only a username.

      I could change mine to it, but that would be something anyone obsessed with Andy Ellis would do, like a creep. Except they couldn’t be educated enough to even contemplate the scenario, they’d just wander aimlessly in some of the available “other parallel universes”.

      Anyone fancy a pint?

    196. Republicofscotland says:

      Its claimed that almost 230,000 operations that were planned haven’t taken place under the SNP government, and with a report that two-in-five patients with cancer were not being treated quickly enough, pre-pandemic, that the SNP are failing to meet the needs of the public.

      A recovery plan is surely needed for the NHS including allowing more access to doctors and dentists. Sturgeon can swan around her South side constituency laughing and smiling and claim our NHS is the best performing in the UK, but whataboutery isn’t a panacea to cure real deep seated problems on patients getting access to treatment when they need it.

      Jean Freeman wasn’t a particularly good, or efficient Health secretary, and neither is Humza Yousaf by the looks of things, mind you Sturgeon was an abject failure as Health secretary herself.

    197. J.o.e says:

      @Scott

      Im open to changing my mind. Im not taking these ‘vaccines’, im not following lockdown orders either.

      What will leave me open to changing my mind:

      1 – satisfactory explanation of why governments are misusing PCR versus the advice of public health bodies, or an outright apology and a reanalysis based on proper use of testing and statistics
      2 – dropping all censorship on the subject
      3 – a live debate held by the industry insiders, doctors and others against a panel of government and corporate representatives where all viewpoints are discussed
      4 – protection taken away from vaccine manufacturers shareholders for ‘adverse events’

      That’s just 4 to start with.

      Im quite convinced that I won’t have to reconsider because none of those things are ever going to happen within the current dynamic, never mind all of them at once and everybody knows it.

    198. Republicofscotland says:

      The Olympic Games finishes today, thank goodness, no more news progammes showing Scottish athletes waving the Butchers Apron or dressed in Butchers Apron tracksuits.

    199. JimuckMac says:

      Beautifully put James Che…

      “Talking about covid is not a sideline issue, as I have tried time and again to explain For the following reasons.
      The sovereignty of your own body is where any sovereignty begins,
      When you have lost that right, you also loose all other sovereignties rights related to you by a de facto.

      If we want to secure our Scottish independence then the Covid/Pandemic agenda needs to be destroyed first.

    200. Andy Ellis says:

      @ James 11.40 am

      Why on earth would I – or anyone else for that matter – have to be knowledgeable about such minutiae? Do we insist on knowing the details for other vaccines and medical treatments? If not, why not? A vanishingly small proportion of people will have such knowledge, any more than they have intimate knowledge of rocket science, quantum physics or molecular chemistry.

      1) How would it help me, or anyone else who isn’t an expert to know every ingredient? If you go to the doctor or dentist or take any medicine do you refuse to take the prescribed treatment unless they’ve personally explained every ingredient and given you a personal guarantee that it is 100% safe, has no side effects and can never cause you harm? Is that REALLY how you think it works? Surely it’s incumbent on you to prove which ingredients are present that are harmful and why?

      2) I’ve no idea. Ask them. Presumably it’d be because they think that the health emergency was of such seriousness and so pressing that giving such guarantees was necessary and proportionate. Are you really saying that faced with a cost/benefit analysis that said: “We consider that this vaccine will cause severe side effects in “X” % of cases, and may cause “X” deaths (where X = a small number) but it will save “Y” lives (where “y” is a large number)” that you would honestly advise people not to have the vaccine?

      I don’t know anyone who works in the industry, but I see no reason to think that they are such monsters or so morally vacuous that they think any death is unimportant. The same would go for those in government or the health professions involved in administering such programmes. Your assertion that they hold these opinions is just that: an assertion. It says much more about you than it does about the people you are traducing, none of it good.

      3) They come in to when and if I felt the government was doing something disproportionate. Most sane people can see that there are circumstances which justify curtailment of “normal” freedoms. When they stop feeling that is the case, they will stop obeying such strictures. If the government still tries to enforce measures which the people do not consent to, then it is up to the people to act.

      4) No. Nobody does. It’s a cost benefit analysis. We’re all called to make them daily. Parents like me had to make a decision whether to use the MMR vaccine on our children years ago, despite many people assuring us that it caused autism. None of us were experts, we had to look at what evidence there was and make our own choices. The same goes today. In most situations people aren’t being forced to be vaccinated. They may be denied entry into certain places, but they have no absolute right to be in a bar, museum or shop if the regulations which also have general consent, say they have to prove they’ve been vaccinated or have been tested.

      What you’re asking for is of course impossible, which is why those not open to reason posit such scenarios. No sane clinician or professional in any field would give you such a blanket guarantee, and you should probably be suspicious of any who would do so. the fact you think it is feasible shows us all we need to know about your ability to formulate a coherent position.

      In conclusion, there’s a big difference between having an open mind and questioning orthodox positions and being so open minded your brain falls out. You airily assert things with zero evidence (e.g. vaccines haven’t reduced pressure on the NHS. Evidence? Source? How can you or anyone else prove what the position would have been if no vaccine had been developed, or if it was half as effective, or only half the doses had been given, or half the population were covidiots?).

      If the truth hurst your feelings, tough. I’m beyond tired of unreasoning, a-scientific know-nothings spouting their demented conspiracy theory bullshit and claiming that it’s just as valid as any other take on things. It really, REALLY isn’t. Don’t concentrate on your hurry feel for being called out for your tin foil hattery James, just be less credulous. It’s not a sin to be ignorant after all, it IS a sin to be proud of it.

    201. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Scott 12.58 pm

      I think we’ve established your creepy credentials beyond any reasonable doubt Scott. I don’t care about your academic status one way or the other. You’re just another anonymous no-mark without the courage to post under their real name, trying to score points by attacking someone who is posting under their own name.

      I’ve never said total vaccination is required. You seem adept at trying to put words in to peoples mouths. It’s pretty text book stuff really. You don’t really bring anything to the table except a faint whiff of creepy obsession. I can see why you’d fit right in with a lot of the moon howlers in the anti-vaxx and nativist claque. If you slap your flippers together hard enough they’ll probably throw you a fish or two.

      I’d sooner have my fingernails removed with rusty pliers than enjoy a sociable pint with some of the zoomers in here.

    202. J.o.e says:

      Back in 2009 I refused to take the swine flu vaccine because I was not sure it was safe or even warranted.

      Was I right or wrong?

    203. Andy Ellis says:

      @ J.o.e 2.52 pm

      Almost certainly wrong. Of course you could have been the 1 or 2 in a million who contracted Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS)as a result, but your chances of suffering serious side effects as a result of swine flu were much higher. Flu itself can cause GBS and many other serious health impacts, so on balance *most* people would look at the cost benefit analysis and see the vaccine risk as far smaller than the disease risks.

      Perhaps you’re just special. Or just special needs. I know which my money would be on.

      https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/is-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-safe

    204. Andy Ellis says:

      @ J.o.e 2.52 pm

      Part, the second: New Scientist, 2009.

      “The risk of getting Guillain-Barré from a flu vaccine is almost certainly less than 1 in a million; the risk of getting it from flu itself is more than 40 in a million. Swine flu is estimated to have killed 800 people in the US already, or more than 2 in every million so far. And during the first wave of swine flu this summer, 1 out of every 20,000 children aged 4 or under in the US ended up in hospital.

      Still think it’s safer not to get vaccinated?”

      Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18014-swine-flu-myth-the-vaccine-isnt-safe-it-has-been-rushed-through-tests-and-the-last-time-there-was-a-swine-flu-scare-the-vaccine-hurt-people-why-take-the-risk-to-prevent-mild-flu/#ixzz72xVEtTcZ

    205. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      hahahaha

      Honestly – I didn’t care what your answer was going to be, I just want to make you work.

      That vaccine was pulled from distribution because of its negative side effects. I was correct not to have it.

      You have just shown 100% what you are. A total fucking shill

    206. Grouse Beater says:

      “In American history as in American westerns, there is always an Indian scout working for the blue jackets and often wearing one. These days the Indian nations have a parliament, ineffectual when the white man wants his land and his precious resources.”

      Your essential weekend reading:

      “Colonised Institutions’: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-qiR

      Holding a referendum is unnecessary when a sovereign nation.

      ‘Scotland’s Constitution’: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-qig

    207. Davie Oga says:

      J.o.e says:
      8 August, 2021 at 2:52 pm
      Back in 2009 I refused to take the swine flu vaccine because I was not sure it was safe or even warranted.

      Was I right or wrong?

      The 450 million euro payout ordered by The Irish High Court last Thursday for the victims of the Swine Flu Vaccine would suggest that you were correct.

    208. Jaggy.blog says:

      Heartened to see my bid to make selection of Alba’s leader a contest not a coronation getting substantial coverage today in both Scotland on Sunday and the Daily Record website. But the Alexba chieftains are plainly determined to make sure I don’t take on King Alexander, with “party sources” telling the papers it’s unlikely I’ll get the 50 nominations needed by 5pm tomorrow (Monday 9 August). They way they’ve sabotaged my campaign – getting my Twitter account suspended and refusing to give nominations their membership numbers – it’s certainly a bloody uphill task.

      https://jaggy.blog/2021/08/08/alexba-crosses-nasty-threshhold/

    209. Davie Oga says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 August, 2021 at 3:21 pm
      @J.o.e 3.12 pm

      Howl, Joe! Howl at the moon….!

      https://www.dw.com/en/as-covid-19-vaccines-arrive-europe-looks-back-at-swine-flu-side-effects/a-55813831

      Andy, the link you referenced includes patently false statements
      i.e.

      “We’ve now vaccinated over 100,000 people already. There’s yet to be a severe adverse event associated with these vaccinations.”

      Not 1 severe reaction to Covid jab?????

      Laughable attempt to convert others to your worldview.

      No doubt you have links to convince us needlessly jab our children so you feel safer?

    210. Mia says:

      “On you’re list is some good questions, there is a “but” though, and I think you miss a few on you’re list”

      My list is not comprehensive by any stretch of the imagination. Never intended to be. Its aim is simply to entice, to become a starting point, the foundations over which to build something solid that can be used to demonstrate both unionist and Sturgeon’s sycophants the economic cost Sturgeon’s procrastination and her allergy to Scotland’s independence is inflicting on Scotland.

      Please feel free to add extra points to the list. As many as you can think of. The more to debate about, the better.

      It would be wonderful if somebody could give price tags to the points, just to get an idea of what sort of money we are talking about here.

      “Talking about covid is not a sideline issue”
      No, this I agree with you 100%. Because Sturgeon forced Scotland to remain shackled to England for 6.5 years and she followed religiously Westminster’s dodgy diktat, she inflicted a huge economic and human cost to Scotland that could have been avoided if she only had pushed Scotland’s autonomy and closed the fckng borders. Instead, she allowed the virus in in its droves and used it to lock us down for a year and a half.

      We agree that Covid is not a sideline issue. But what indeed is a sideline issue that has absolutely nothing to do with independence per se and is not helping moving forward the debate on Scotland’s independence either, is the matter about people believing or not about the efficiency of vaccine, if some people believe or not the vaccines are just a huge multinational money making machine con or if the lockdowns are an wicked experiment designed to test voters compliance on bringing some form of fascism as a political control measure of dissent against corporate greed.

      Sadly, for weeks, if not months, this invaluable pro indy asset which is this political blog, has been swamped and clogged up with neverending crap of the sort day in, day out. This is off putting, quite frankly and one has to wonder if this has been the objective all along to render this invaluable asset worthless.

      “How can you or I claim sovereignty for Scotland and it Scottish people if you are willing to give it up?”

      I do not think the people of Scotland are/were willing to give up their sovereignty. Sturgeon has taken upon herself to grab that sovereignty and throw it in the bin as if it was hers to dispose of. This was amply demonstrated with her government’s vicious reaction to the Keatings’ case, in the negligent and selfish way she has been handing vetos to Westminster to stop indyref since 2016, in the profoundly undemocratic way she dismissed our mandates and majorities and of course in the crass way she didn’t even bat an eyelid when the withdrawal bill was passed. Even the Labour FM of Wales at the time commented about Scotland’s popular sovereignty being threatened by that bill because it was the first time in 300 years that England’s government put the sovereignty of Westminster in law. Yet, from this political fraud’s mouth not even one sound came out.

      “We are the biggest sinners ever when it come to unrecognised sovereignty”

      Sorry, but that won’t wash. The person who was at the head of the Scottish government, the person who was at the head of the SNP, the person who held more mandates she could use, control of the majority of Scotland’s MPs and the biggest share of MSPs was/is Sturgeon. The FM, so called pro independence leader who let that withdrawal bill pass in direct breach of Scotland’s claim of right and the treaty of union and did not lift a fckng finger to stop it when it could have just declared the end of the union right there and then, is Sturgeon.

      Sorry, but Sturgeon owns that 100%. No excuses.

      “The easy and short answer is lying at your feet being ignored”

      Sturgeon and her quadriplegic SNP have been holding the key to exit this union and the lever to send this union into self destruction since 8th May 2015. I am not ignoring that key. Scotland is not ignoring that key. Sturgeon and her quadriplegic SNP are and have been doing so deliberately for the last 6.5 years.

      There was never a need for a referendum. There is no requirement in international law for a referendum to dissolve an international treaty that has ceased to be beneficial for an equal partner and has now become toxic and the excuse used by a greedy partner to exploit its other partner as if it was its colony.

      Indyref was introduced as a tool to delay independence and to give the British state an extra lever of control over the timings of Scotland’s independence. That is as clear as day.

      Sturgeon has gone a step ahead by handing a lever to the lever: she has been handing to Westminster free vetos to stop Scotland’s independence referendum for 6.5 fckng years. And THAT is the short and easy answer in front of us.

    211. Hugh Jarse says:

      With an intellect obviously so far superior to the poor dumb souls who inhabit WoS comments, what would be ones motivation to patronise the place?

      Altruistic?

      Fragile ego?

      Daddy issues?

      Other?
      🙂

    212. Robert Graham says:

      Submitted without comment

      Fines levied against Pfizer in the USA

      Since 2000 Pfizer has paid fines totalling $ 4.660.896.333

      These fines cover various infringements and offences just in the USA

      A ethically driven honest organisation ?

      JUDGE FOR YOURSELF

    213. Mia says:

      “If we want to secure our Scottish independence then the Covid/Pandemic agenda needs to be destroyed first”

      Apologies for being this cynical, but that comes across as a recycled/rehashed version of Sturgeon’s last pathetic excuse to push indyref back, which was “the need for economic recovery after COVID”. Knowing full well, of course, that a huge part of the massive economic damage on Scotland was inflicted by her own obstínate refusal to lock the borders and forcing a house arrest on the population and a damaging lockdown on Scotland’s economy instead.

      It seems that Scotland’s economic recovery from COVID, in light of that massive oil field the English ruling elite is hoping to dig its paws in right up to their elbows while the people of Scotland is fed propaganda to make us believe having such an asset is in fact a burden, is no longer that difficult.

      Is that the reason why “Sturgeon’s demand for economic recovery from COVID” suddenly needs to become something even more difficult and even more surreal, like your need “to destroy the pandemic agenda”?

      Incidentally, while the economic recovery only concerns Scotland, we are now going up the scale in the deliberate removal of control from Scotland: your proposal of “destroying the pandemic agenda” is a multinational, global thing over which Scotland has no control whatsoever. So, is it your idea that we have to save the world from itself before we can even think in Scotland’s independence?

      What will be the next myth that, in your opinion, needs to be dismantled before we can progress independence, that Nasa never landed in the moon, perhaps? Sort out climate change before Scotland can declare independence? Wait until every meteorite in that in the future may hit the earth and change its orbit making independence unviable for Scotland?

      What is it with this obsession you guys have to find the most ridiculous excuses to deny Scotland the control over its own destiny?

      For goodness sake, guys. Stop fabricating obstacles to independence. It is beginning to look like a joke.

    214. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis. Twice vaccinated and still she catches “covid”? Make your complaint this way.. Dear Mr Gates.
      About that snake oil you sold us…. Hahaha.

    215. Pixywine says:

      As you can tell I’m in an impish mood.

    216. Pixywine says:

      Mia. You won’t be able to campaign properly for Independence while we are still living under “Emergency Power” with the attendent restrictions.

    217. Robert Graham says:

      Without comment well maybe a little bit I am just drawing attention to what’s been going on for the last year and a half for 24 / 7 and for months on end fear propaganda ,and Psychological Torture

      The last few days and since withdrawn on the BBC News Website

      A overwhelming percentage of people admitted to Hospital with suspected Plague infection 55% Unvaccinated – 45% fully vaccinated

      By any stretch of the imagination that does not constitute OVERWHELMING the sales pitch is far from convincing as are all the half truths and innuendos ,

      When will these drug pushers realise they are not trusted , and why are they not trusted EXPERIENCE past experiences of real people and the real harm that they have caused that combined with Governments the world over who have been shown to be strangers to the truth

      Just another wee bending of the truth that’s been prevalent during this whole fiasco

    218. Pixywine says:

      What kind of a selfish asshole wants children vaccinated so the selfish feel safe and are prepared to fall back on Tory Government propaganda to justify themselves. Children don’t need to be co-opted into a dangerous gene therapy experiment.

    219. Pixywine says:

      Hugh arse. There’s a character who haunts youtube below the line with a moniker similar to yours who comes away with similarly fatuous comments to your own

    220. Pixywine says:

      Hugh arse. He has an ugly profile picture also. Ugly is as ugly does.

    221. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis. Your reply to Joe’s question earlier about swine flu is the reason we are where we are as a country. Some intelligent sounding idiot made a poor decision.

    222. Mia says:

      “You won’t be able to campaign properly for Independence while we are still living under “Emergency Power”

      Even more the reason to create that list and a give the cost of 6.5 years of deliberate procrastination by the political fraud a credible figure.

    223. Ron Maclean says:

      @Hugh Jarse 3:47pm

      “Other’?

      Doesn’t suffer fools gladly?

    224. Davie Oga says:

      Pixywine says:
      8 August, 2021 at 4:29 pm
      What kind of a selfish asshole wants children vaccinated so the selfish feel safe and are prepared to fall back on Tory Government propaganda to justify themselves. Children don’t need to be co-opted into a dangerous gene therapy experiment.

      Insane people, Satanists, Cowards, People with low IQ’s. There’s a long list of folk just gagging to give it to the wains.

      Mia

      Hard to do the work that is required to facilitate independence when the majority of the population are suffering from a collective psychosis similar to the witch trials, the formation of the Nazi State, or Argentina 78

    225. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis, Hatuey, etc.

      Two facts for the vaccinated to learn and consider.

      1 You may still catch Covid.
      2 You may still pass Covid on to others.

      What you have to do, armed with these facts, is deduce what that means to yourself and others. Do you get it? In their interactions with others, the unvaccinated are no more dangerous than the vaccinated.

      As presumably vaccinated individuals, your sense of moral superiority is misplaced. Your sense of intellectual superiority is risible.

    226. Mist001 says:

      If independence happened, then who would be the party in power the very next day and for the foreseeable future?

      The SNP.

      Going by how we see them to be at this moment in time, would you really want them taking charge of an independent Scotland, no matter for how long or short a period?

      I certainly wouldn’t. I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath, let alone a freshly independent country.

      Anyway in my opinion, the task is FAR too big for the likes of Mrs. Murrell and her ilk. I think she knows that too. She likes the power without the responsibility.

    227. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dave Oga 3.38 pm

      Take it up with the quoted vaccine expert Matti Sällberg, Dave. Presumably if he’s stating that 100,000 doses of the vaccine were administered during the testing with no unusual severe events reported he’s unlikely to be lying?

      Unless you’re going to come up with evidence that contradicts Matti Sällberg, professor and biomedical analyst at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute whose primary area of research is vaccines, I’ll take his word over yours, OK?

    228. Ruby says:

      Could someone from both sides of the Covid debate please tell me what they are trying to achieve?

      Is this just a huge pissing contest with both side trying to prove they are right?

    229. Ruby says:

      Is Andy Ellis trying to convince
      Dave Oga to have the vaccine and Dave Oga trying to convince Andy Ellis not to?

    230. Mia says:

      “Going by how we see them to be at this moment in time, would you really want them taking charge of an independent Scotland, no matter for how long or short a period?”

      YES.

      I rather have the SNP in control of an independent Scotland for a couple of years than England MPs draining Scotland’s oil fields, destroying Scotland’s brand, selling our NHS and water to American companies, flooding our markets with England’s produce reducing progressively the share in Scotland’s markets left to Scottish produce and destroying our farming and food standards as they are doing now.

    231. J.o.e says:

      ‘Could someone from both sides of the Covid debate please tell me what they are trying to achieve?’

      If you even feel the need to ask that question then there are no amount of keystrokes, however intelligently combined, that will enlighten you.

      Sorry

    232. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:09 pm
      ‘Could someone from both sides of the Covid debate please tell me what they are trying to achieve?’

      If you even feel the need to ask that question then there are no amount of keystrokes, however intelligently combined, that will enlighten you.

      Sorry

      Reply

      What a cop out!

    233. Davie Oga says:

      Andy

      Here’s an expert for you. He’s obviously incorrect as we’re all the “experts” who believed the studies on efficacy. Your “expert” says that there were no serious adverse advents in 100000 doses. Myocarditis alone affects 1 in 10000 according to the regulatory bodies. That’s one serious outcome where there would be appx 10 cases per his 100000. Thats only for myocarditis. If you add in the other serious adverse advents that are document, you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice than pumping out 100000 doses without a single serious adverse outcome. Your expert is full of shit.

      “In his nearly 30 years studying vaccines, Paul Goepfert, M.D., director of the Alabama Vaccine Research Clinic at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has never seen any vaccine as effective as the three COVID vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson — currently available in the United States.

      “A 90 percent decrease in risk of infections, and 94 percent effectiveness against hospitalization for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is fantastic,” he said.”

      https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines

    234. Shug says:

      Just reading the herald comments sections. It is interesting how it has become the home of unionist trolls. Hardly a Nat comment to be seen

    235. Davie Oga says:

      My expert is full of shit as well of course

    236. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 4:56 pm
      If independence happened, then who would be the party in power the very next day and for the foreseeable future?

      Reply

      The party in power in an iScotland will be the party voted for by the Scottish electorate.

    237. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 4.49 pm

      I’ve not seen anyone assert that vaccination meant you can’t catch covid John, so you appear to be doing that thing where you answer a question nobody asked, or say people said things they didn’t say.

      At least try to interact with what people actually say, not what you wrongly infer.

      From what I’ve heard – which like most lay people will be from what is on the media – if you do catch covid after having been vaccinated (even just the first shot) you are less likely to be seriously ill. Presumably you’d accept that’s a good thing, yes? I mean, if you’re so dead set against being vaccinated, for whatever reason, that you’re willing to run that risk then fair enough: crack on. Of course we can have a discussion about whether that’s a selfish decision on your part given the pressure on NHS resources, but there’s no law against being a selfish git luckily for you and some others posting here.

      The corollary of that is (presumably – as I say…I’m no expert, I’m just putting it out there for others more knowledgable than me to discuss…) that if an unvaccinated person is infected they might be much more seriously ill and have a greater viral load than a vaccinated person, so they’ll be spreading their infection to all an sundry in the period between catching it and being tested, diagnosed and treated. Or not treated presumably for some of them. You’re free to make the argument that their civil liberties are more important than and outweigh the common good. Opponents of vaccination have done so throughout history.

      I don’t really care if you think I have a sense of moral superiority over vaccine refuseniks. I believe I’m in the right and they are in the wrong. I think their behaviours have consequences, and that the cost/benefit analysis is against them. I’m not asserting any intellectual superiority. We’re allowed to disagree. I’m allowed to poke fun at those I regard as advancing a-scientific conspiracy theories. You and those who believe as you do are not the majority, you’re a vocal minority swimming against the tide of reason and science. There have always been such contrarians and doubtless there always will be.

    238. J.o.e says:

      ‘What a cop out!’

      No. I am just able to see that I would never be able to reach you on the topic. I have solid conviction that nobody else would either.

      I admit defeat on this before even beginning.

    239. Mist001 says:

      As I said yesterday, I don’t want to take the vaccine but essentially, I have no choice. Covid has been used as an excuse to bring fascism in by the back door and society has been restructured now that if you want to participate in society, then you will have to take the vaccine whether you want to or not. There’s no getting around that.

      If you don’t take the vaccine, then you will be excluded from society and looking to the future, you won’t be able to enter buildings or offices without proof of having been vaccinated, so you’re going to be fucked if you have a problem with the DSS and need to go in and see them, for example.

      People are being given no real choice in the matter, the vaccine is being forced upon the people and that’s fascism, no matter how you look at it.

    240. Ruby says:

      Shug says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:15 pm
      Just reading the herald comments sections. It is interesting how it has become the home of unionist trolls. Hardly a Nat comment to be seen

      Reply
      Do you think the same applies to the D.Record & Scotland on Sunday?

      I was surprised that Jaggy.blog was having orgasms because he got coverage in these two rags.

      “Jaggy.blog says:
      8 August, 2021 at 3:35 pm
      Heartened to see my bid to make selection of Alba’s leader a contest not a coronation getting substantial coverage today in both Scotland on Sunday and the Daily Record website’

    241. cirsium says:

      @Scott, 12.58
      If vaccination had been available from day one, deaths would not have reached the levels seen.

      If doctors had been permitted to treat the infection early, deaths would not have reached the levels seen.

      Dr Peter McCullough testifies to Texas Senate 10 March 2021. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM
      Dr Peter McCullough’s treatment protocol, American Journal of Medicine August 2020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934320306732
      An example – April 2020 Dr Pietro Garavelli, head of the Infectious Diseases Unit, University Hospital, Novara, Italy
      “In Piedmont, the “Covid at home” system is being implemented that provides early diagnosis of the first symptoms even without waiting for the time for the swab, immediate start of therapy at home with hydroxychloroquine and control by family doctors. The goal is to intervene as soon as possible and avoid hospitalization. An intervention that not only significantly reduces the worsening of the clinical picture that often occurs around the seventh or eighth day after the onset of the first symptoms, but also has the effect of reducing hospitalizations, necessary just when the conditions worsen. This approach, which has been active for several weeks, has proved its effectiveness precisely in Novara, where we have treated many cases early and therefore it has been found that the area has reached a mortality per inhabitant that is the lowest compared to the rest of the neighboring provinces. All this was made possible precisely because we treated the sick at home early with hydroxychloroquine”
      https://www.newsbiella.it/2020/04/28/leggi-notizia/argomenti/speciale-coronavirus-4/articolo/idrossiclorochina-vs-covid-19-una-terapia-considerata-efficace-ma-controversa-il-parere-dellinfet-4.html

    242. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:22 pm
      ‘What a cop out!’

      No. I am just able to see that I would never be able to reach you on the topic. I have solid conviction that nobody else would either.

      I admit defeat on this before even beginning.

      Reply

      Are you admitting that you wouldn’t be able to convince me that the Covid debate on Wings is nothing more than a huge pissing contest?

    243. J.o.e says:

      Mist ‘Im not taking the vaccine and bowing to totalitarianism!’

      State ‘But if you don’t we will do totalitarian shit’

      Mist ‘Alright then, i’ll take it’.

      lol FFS

    244. Hatuey says:

      We should be thankful to have someone here who has a PhD in International Relations and brings light and expertise to the table. People ought to have more respect.

      There’s a lot of anger on show. I suspect for some it’s disappointing to see that the vaccine works and doesn’t kill people. They were wrong and they know it, and now they’re angry. They should be embarrassed.

      I see another genius has latched on to the idea that despite being vaccinated people are still able to catch Covid-19. I’m sick of answering that question.

      In short, that’s how vaccines work — the immune system is pre-programmed to fight the infection when you’re vaccinated. No vaccine could work unless you went through the initial stages of actually catching the virus or disease that you were vaccinated against. Vaccines shouldn’t be confused with space suits.

      The argument for vaccinating kids isn’t sinister. We should assume the government has looked at modelling, is concerned about the autumn and winter, and wants as many people as possible vaccinated in order to avoid another lockdown.

      The role of young people and schools in terms of transmission rates is elevated when the vast majority of adults are vaccinated. Vaccine protection will start to wane soon in the UK, though, as it is starting to elsewhere, and that’s undoubtedly a factor.

    245. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:22 pm
      As I said yesterday, I don’t want to take the vaccine but essentially, I have no choice.

      Reply

      Are you talking about France or the UK?

    246. JimuckMac says:

      Ruby. When it comes to the Covid 19 debate listen to me, I am your truth teller, I am the chosen one.

    247. J.o.e says:

      ‘Are you admitting that you wouldn’t be able to convince me that the Covid debate on Wings is nothing more than a huge pissing contest?’

      No. I would not get you to admit that it was a subject of importance and worthy of discussion.

      I don’t think you do think it is a ‘huge pissing contest’. I think your mind is already made up and you are talking utter shit. Again

      There’s a difference.

      Ok – you may now start calling everyone an ‘anti-vaxxer’ again.

      Cheers

    248. Mist001 says:

      @ Ruby

      At this moment, I’m talking about France but I’m closely watching developments in the UK and it won’t be far behind. I was just reading a couple of days ago that some firms in the USA are refusing to hire anyone who hasn’t been vaccinated so if you don’t have the vaccine, you don’t get a job.

      I’m talking about my current position in France, but this is happening worldwide, apart from maybe the Virgin or Cayman Islands where the rules don’t apply.

    249. Mia says:

      What exactly is “crown estate Scotland” and what does it do?

      Where exactly does the money it pockets from leases to use Scotland’s seabed, coast and land go? Do the Scottish people actually see a penny of it?

      According to its website*, it claims that to lie cables and pipelines, for offshore renewable energy, for finfish and shellfish farming, for using Scotland’s ports, etc people need to ask for a lease that this entity issues.

      My question is, does the crown actually pocket all the money from leasing Scotland’s seabed so the Scottish people do not see an effing penny out of it?

      And then the unelected queen is allowed to undemocratically gerrymander our laws to her own advantage?

      Is this for real?

      *https://www.crownestatescotland.com/

      Now, for those who insist in claiming the Treaty of Union abolished the English and the Scottish crowns, it will be an eyeopener to see how this particular website:

      https://data-ogauthority.opendata.arcgis.com/

      actually shows there are clearly two separate and different crown states in the UK, as you would expect from a Treaty of Union between two separate kingdoms:

      “The crown state” with England’s crown, and “Crown State Scotland” with a green symbol.

      The “Crown state Scotland” is concerned with Scotland’s land, seabed, ports etc.

      “The crown state” with the England crown symbol is concerned with land, seabed, ports, etc of England, Wales and NI, in line with these three countries being part of the kingdom of England.

      You find the most interesting things in the most unexpected places.

    250. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.

      In response to you’re opening dialogue.
      Yes I do read every ingredient in my medicine packet, that is what it is there for. Telling you the ingredients.

      1) Yes I do query any new medicine contents and possible side effects and ask for them to explain in layman terms. That is what your brain is for. To use.

      2) I was asking you. As the person promoting the vaccine on WOS.
      I would suggest to anyone who wants to take the vaccine to go ahead, it’s their choice.
      However I personally would not commit possible suicide on someone else’s advice that I [MAY ] save life’s of unknown persons. Wether some of those may be perverts or murderers or Matt Hancock and Dominic (eye tester) Cummings or Richard Branson or joe Biden for that matter.
      The assessment I take of risk to my own life is my choice.
      I do not hear the government telling someone who drives a Lamborghini to stop using it because it’s dangerous, and could kill others.
      Or dictating to mountain climbers to stop climbing, as it endangers mountain rescuers life’s.
      There are numerous life threatening behaviours risks that harm others and have a much higher death morbidity than covid,
      Remind me of how many people die of cancer each year? With no rushed vaccine I note.
      Or of how many have died of heart attacks.
      If your main purpose in life is possibly to save as many others as you can, you will die of worry,
      Even doctors and nurses don’t do this. They mountain climb, cycle, ski, go sky diving. Take flights.
      And go on holidays to dangerous places.
      If you want to protect people from you’re being a transmitter of the disease/ virus Andy stay at home, even after the vaccine. Wear your mask, wash you’re feet and wear a space suit, and wash the tarmac and concrete outside you’re door.
      Any assertion I have varies very little from you’re own, none seem to hold any facts.
      Whom am I traducing.
      Most of my family are in the health profession and have been since ww2. Thank you.

      3) Disproportionate behaviour is the government exempting the pharmaceutical companies from liability if the vaccines prove to be harmful or have a delayed effect in causing death.

      So you felt under pressure to give your children their mms jag,
      That has echos of you’re behaviour here to others.
      As members of my family have been in the medical profession since ww2 and still are.
      Let me give you some secret inside information……..
      Doctors, nurses, care workers are all leaving the profession in there thousands due to the pressure and coercion in their work environment since 2020.
      You have no idea how desperate and under pressure the NHS is. And it is going to get worse.

      Opps you have lost control of you’re emotions again, there boiling over and it makes your brain, mouth and fingers resort to name calling again,
      now did I not say we weren’t going to go there.

      So far you have done the patter of a salesman at the front door,
      But the goods you delivered look like an opinionated scam,
      And when you did not get a sale enough for me to buy into it, you threw hebee jeebies and started ranting with no facts.
      Naughty sales man, now get you’re foot out of my door.

    251. Scott says:

      A thesis.

      Using the Winter Olympics to make a case for indyref2:

      Team GB won 65 medals at Tokyo Summer Games.

      Rio, 67.

      London, 65.

      Beijing, 51.

      Trending towards Paris, 51 for Games of the XXXIII Olympiad. More analysis required to create a full range.

      Winter Games.

      Turin 2006 and Vancouver 2010 both returned 1.

      2012 saw an increase of Summer medals of c28%

      2016 saw the peak.

      Sochi 2014 saw a tally of 5.

      Beijing saw a low for Team GB Summer, but the mean average from then is still trending upward and 9million bicycles suggest the host possesses institutionalised stamina to cope with winter conditions.

      2014 saw a 75% increase in Winter medals and 2016 saw peak Summer.

      2018 Winter Olympics returned 5 medals.

      To assist team GB, hold a referendum on Scottish independence in Scotland.

      2022 works.

      7 or more Winter medals, then a record for Paris.

      Scotland would set new records in Paris and Milan 2026.

      Commonwealth games remain unchanged, so illustrative redundancy invoked re trends.

      Indyrefs are good for Team GB.

      If this isn’t a thesis, amend line 1 to omit “thesis”.

    252. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:37 pm
      I don’t think you do think it is a ‘huge pissing contest’.

      Reply
      LOL that is cracker!

      I must remember that one!

      PS Why would I call everyone an ‘anti-vaxxer’?

    253. Mia says:

      “the immune system is pre-programmed to fight the infection when you’re vaccinated. No vaccine could work unless you went through the initial stages of actually catching the virus or disease that you were vaccinated against”

      The problem with your explanation is that several people with both vaccines not only went through “the initial” stages of catching the virus and developing the immune response. They actually went through the late stages too and even ended up in hospital needing treatment. In other words, they had a full blown infection. Sorry, that in my books says the vaccine did not work.

      When a vaccine really works, you don’t even notice you are infected with the antigen or your symptoms disappear very quickly. For instance, if you have chickenpox once, you may be exposed to hosts carrying the virus many times during your life (particularly if you work with children) but you don’t even notice it. You don’t get ill every time. Your immune system recognises dispatches the antigen very quickly ending the infection. You only get a second infection if the virus that is dormant in your nerve endings is reactivated.

      Clearly this COVID vaccine does not work well. If it did, there would not be people who after having got the two dosis gets ill with Covid, and most certainly there would not be vaccinated people in hospitals with COVID.

      The fact that there are also people who already suffered from COVID and is getting re-infected tells us that immunity against this virus is weak and inefficient, which explains the inefficiency of the vaccine.

      Are they actually publishing the proportion of vaccinated people vs non vaccinated that goes to hospital with COViD?

    254. J.o.e says:

      I just want to say – I have warned my wife and family.

      I am not talking this shit by being coerced or forced into it. If im not convinced im not getting it.

      If that means I die from lack of services or necessities then that’s fine by me – I do not want to live in a world where people are forced into this anyway.

      Further – if adults like me roll over then its down to the children.

      Its just not happening. The thought makes me want to vomit.

      But while I live im not being quiet.

    255. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      I like Craig Murray but am in despair.

      He spends £750 an hour on expensive legal counsel, which manybof us have donated towards.

      Yet he leaves his Blog comments in the hands of a well meaning Amadan.

      I BEG someone who has a line of communication to Craig and/or his lawyer to PLEASE turn off the comments section on the Craig Murray website. I know this goes against the grain but two facts…

      1). It was Craig’s own Blog that had a prime roll in getting him sentenced to 8 months imprisonment. Surely better to wait for Craig to be released and take control of his himself Blog before re-opening those comments?

      2). It WILL be the current Trolls on Craig’s BADLY moderated web Blog that will see him lose his 4-month good-behaviour remission.

      Worse. The Trolls named DiggerUK and Ronan1882 have exasperated some poor soul on Craig’s Blog into trying to win an argument manufactured by Trolls (and very badly moderated). The result?

      A prima facie example exhibiting Contempt of Court NOW ON Craig Murray’s website.

      QUOTE…

      “LADY DORRIAN IS A SHIT”

      UNQUOTE

      To a casual observer, and in context on Craig’s website, it MIGHT seem like a rhetorical rejoinder to the toxic Troll Ronan1882. But comments like the one above comparing the court’s presiding judge to a big jobbie is something that law officers like myself can only see ending up badly.

      You can bet your last fiver the COPFS will be SCREENSHOTING every bit of output on Craig’s website. It’s entirely likely the whole website will be shut down once all the computer equipment and addresses on them are seized by Police Scotland as evidence and productions.

      Is anyone able to get a copy of: THE IDIOT’S GUIDE AT HOW TO AVOID MAKING A CONTEMPT OF COURT and send it to Craig’s Advocate so he can show the current moderator the very real risk

      Or maybe I misunderstand Craig’s real wish? Is he seeking to stay inside HMP Covid LONGER than Julian Assange resided in the Equadorian embassy in London?

      In the name of the wee man please save us from useless moderators and poor unhinged souls suffering pre-prison-shock from leaving the comments section on the very website that got them the 8 month prison sentence in the first place. Sighs.

    256. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:41 pm
      @ Ruby

      At this moment, I’m talking about France but I’m closely watching developments in the UK and it won’t be far behind.

      Reply

      I would be interested to read what is happening in France vis a vis Covid passports. Got any links?

      What are you going to do to prevent the fascist takeover in France.

      You seem more than willing to collaborate?

      I’m trying to imagine what side you would have been on during the fascist occupation of France. Definitely can’t see you as part of ‘La Resistance’

    257. Gary45% says:

      Davie Oga@4.48
      Is it wains, WEANS or waynes you mean?
      You’re obviously only here for the banter.
      Pist@5.22
      I think you’ll find Johnson, Farige, Raffles, Gove, Pattel etc brought fascism in the front door in the form of Brexit.
      Joe@5.59
      Die quietly, nobody’s interested, that goes with the rest of the moon howlers.

    258. Ruby says:

      JimuckMac says:
      8 August, 2021 at 5:35 pm
      Ruby. When it comes to the Covid 19 debate listen to me, I am your truth teller, I am the chosen one.

      Reply
      Decisions! Decisions! Decisions!

      Should I go with ‘JimuckMac’ or this guy:

      https://archive.is/C490r

      Before making up my mind who to go with let me ask both of you the following question:

      What would you do if you teenagers came out as transgender and wanted to take puberty blockers & testosterone?

      Is Neil posting here? What is his user name?

    259. Mist001 says:

      @ Ruby

      Being forced to take the vaccine in order to participate in society is emphatically NOT collaboration.

      You can mock all you want, wait until it turns up on your doorstep, then get back to me.

      Collaborate. What a stupid thing to say.

    260. J.o.e says:

      lol

      The shills are really out in force now.

    261. Gary45% says:

      Sad fact is, this once great site which was a bastion of facts and knowledge regarding anything Scottish Indy, is now just a poor mans Sunday Sport agony aunt letters page.
      Hypothetically speaking.
      If Sturgeon called Scotland an Independent country tomorrow, with all the legalities in place, WoS the claimed worlds No1 Site for Scottish Independence, would within about 30 comments be back to appeasing the stupidity of the conspiracy moon howlers.

    262. Gary45% says:

      Are you the same Joe that had the giant chip on your shoulder?
      Or are you just another FUD?

    263. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 10:01pm
      A late reply I was busy this afternoon visiting. Yay it was a smash and grab. I agree but I will take it nonetheless. If I had a pound everytime my team were robbed I would be a millionaire. There has been a few engineering disasters in Scotland. For example, I am thinking about the Tay Rail Bridge disaster. I started to research the case a good few years ago, as an interest. Couldn’t get my hands on the critical information. Ring a bell?. In general Scottish Engineering is in a good place certainly wouldn’t be an impediment to Independence. The impediment is the current regime so I am thinking on a timescale of 10 to 15 years. The task of recovery is that great.

    264. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 6:17 pm
      @ Ruby

      Being forced to take the vaccine in order to participate in society is emphatically NOT collaboration.

      Reply

      Well yes it is.

      Respect to J.O.E on this one. At least he’s prepared to fight what he sees as fascism.

    265. Fred says:

      Scott says:
      “Andy Ellis is only a username”

      Scott,
      Ellis is a Troll -end of, and just best ignored.
      He trades on the fact that he’s been contributing to the independence debate for some time here and, somehow, that precludes him from being accused as such.

      His continual, almost maniacal, revisiting to exactly the same themes, language and insults and pertinacious unwillingness to develop or explore any idea or conversation that he chooses not to agree with demonstrates not only an obvious lack of imagination, but is deliberate and are the classic and predictable traits of an internet troll and, more likely, someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

      Reading between the lines i feel quite sorry for him. He’s likely a middle aged man who’s unsatisfied and not where he wants to be in his life right now – not materialistically of course, just unfulfilled by a mediocrity of his own making.
      Engaging in insults and provocation and then gaining a reaction is the payoff – thus temporarily satiating his narcissistic ego and elevating his own sense of self worth above yours or anyone else’s.

      Don’t let him kid you that he found the discovery of his phd thesis on the internet ‘creepy’.
      Far from it, he hasn’t systematically over-emphasised and bored us to death with the fact that he uses his own name and continually referenced his qualifications (whilst simultaneously downplaying them at the same time) for no reason – he’s been so desperate for someone to Google him that he had to practically hand it to you on a plate before you done it.

      Lastly, language is really important when dealing with people with NPD, just reading his posts today, note how many times he uses the phrase ‘no-mark’.
      Ask yourself, who do you think he is really referring to there?

      Quite sad really, but the best thing we can all do is to just ignore him.

    266. Davie Oga says:

      Mist

      It’s on my doorstep. Knocking on the door and wanting to chat to my daughter, but I’m more hopeful now than a couple of weeks ago.

      I live in a town of 1000 people. There are six pubs and restaurants where you can eat inside. Since the Irish government brought in the digital pass, not one of them have opened for indoor dining. Not one. I was in Dublin on Thursday and all the multinationals were open. Burger King in O’Connell Street had some wannabee fucking camp guard at the entrance to the dining area – empty

      The mood is shifting.

      Keep on keeping on. Truth will out in the end.

    267. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 5.44 pm

      1) If you read all the ingredients, bully for you. I’d wager you’re one of very few who do, and one of even fewer who would be able to make informed decisions on what they read even if they take the trouble. If you’re not trained, the purposes and potential side effects of the active ingredients won’t mean much to you. The “fillers” and other stuff won’t either unless you’re trained in chemistry I’d imagine, but hey…if it makes you feel better, have at it.

      Reading the “possible side effects include…” warnings in medications is always interesting but in the end most people are only going to pay them any mind if they feel unwell and make a connection that it *might* be down to what they’ve just taken.

      2) What’s the point in asking for a layman’s view? What value is it? I’ll be guided by the science and what those who are trained in the relevant disciplines say. If there is disagreement amongst the experts, I’d probably opt in the end for what the majority said. The principle would be the same whether it related to the safety of vaccines / medicines / surgical procedures, or to the safety of a bridge that was deemed to have safety issues, or a plane that had a bad safety record. I might justifiably be nervous about flying on a Boeing 737Max right now, but going forward if the safety authorities assured us they were safe, and insisting you’d never willingly fly on that particular aircraft meant you couldn’t get where you wanted to because that was the only option, do you fly…or give up?

      3) “If..” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Government routinely make such exemptions for a host of different things like nuclear liabilities, satellites falling out of the sky and taking out a major city etc. If they didn’t companies would likely be unable to get insurance to cover the potential risks at all, or it would cost so much that it would drive their costs up hugely. Bye bye satcoms and nuclear power. You might not like that fact it happens, but unless and until you come up with a better model than capitalism we’re probably stuck with it.

      I have plenty of relatives who also work in the NHS too James. It’s the largest employer in Europe so I’d wager many of us do. None of those in my family are refusing vaccination or advocating that the rest of us do so, but that’s just my subjective experience.

      Don’t presume to tell me what I do and don’t know about what pressures NHS staff are working under: as I say, I have relatives and friends enough of my own to tell me about their experiences directly. Not a single one has any time for anti-vaxxers.

      It’s a matter of supreme indifference to me whether I convince you or not James. As I’ve said before, you can’t educate pork. Some people revel in their unreason. My emotions are just fine. The idea that a no-mark like you, or any of the other claque of moon howlers on here, would cause me anything more than a deep sense of ennui and occasional mirth is in itself hilarious.

    268. James Che. says:

      Mia.
      This is my contribution to hurrying on the process and skipping the snp,

      If it is read that under the claim of right we can choose our own government. Which it does.

      If it is acknowledged by Westminster and the Scottish goverment that the Scots have the right to choose another government,?which it has been.

      That reaffirms our sovereignty over governments.

      What is missing from the claim of right?

      It does not say we have to [use] the old government to choose a new one,

      It’s the people of Scotland alone that has the right to choose whom governs us legally.

      It no longer matters that NS has wasted mandates. (Although it’s very annoying).
      She is not at the controls.

      We are.
      Sovereignty matters, and must not be taken from the Scottish people under the control of covid.
      That is why covid rules matter so much,
      It begins at the root, to spread it branches.
      It is about sovereignty starting with us, our bodies, our street, town, city, country and nation.

      Imagine this scenario,

      We, The people of Scotland are fed up to the eyes of the Snp and the Scottish government whom we elected to more than occasion, and gave mandates to, through elections to become a independent Scotland, (not this last time as NS avoided mentioning it I think.)

      They have failed to act in line of their duty and office to listen to the Scottish electorate.
      And are acting in an invasive manner passing laws that intrude into our private rights. (See private rights, Scotland)

      They have instigated division of the family unit that has stood for more years than history records amongst the sovereign Scottish people through the transgender bill and multiple sex genders.

      They did not act in the best interest of the Scottish people during Brexit, or after Brexit.

      They attempted to politically remove another Scottish snp member through corrupt procedures of a court case,
      They have blocked freedom of speech in our homes and to journalists.

      The Snp and the Scottish government can be seen as ignoring the electorate and working against its sovereign citizens.

      Time to choose a new government.
      It is up to the Scottish people,
      not the devolved Scottish government.
      Nor the Westminster government.

      This has no legal definition as UDI.
      That is a political stance of when leaders of governments go rogue,
      Not for sovereign people.

      Yes there are challenges. Yes we have to recognise our sovereignty better here in scotland and what it actually means,

      No, the snp government will not like it.
      Yes the Westminster government has say over the Scottish Parliament not to end the union.

      But not over [ us ] chosen a totally new government here in Scotland
      And the claim of right does not specify when we chose that new government it has to be British.

    269. Andy Ellis says:

      Further to J.o.e’s “no surrender” post at 5.59 pm, anyone else wondering if this long suffering family are preparing the DNR order even as speak…? 🙂

    270. chas says:

      Mia

      Can I respectfully suggest that you write a novel.

      If you did it would hopefully give you less time to bore every one on here!

    271. Andy Ellis says:

      @chas 6.54 pm

      Careful, she’ll be back with a 35 point plan about examining why that might be a good thing and how it can help us achieve independence….

    272. James Che. says:

      We do not have to close Holyrude as that is part of British establishment and Westminster laws and statutes, and comes under the British crown,
      Leave it where it is, it will have no teeth left.

      We start our own real Scottish government from the people of Scotland, living in Scotland.

      It’s a dream that can take root and grow.
      Providing we no longer listen to naysayers, to wee, to stupid and to poor.

    273. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Keep it coming

      You are showing your true colours more clearly with every comment:)

    274. Fred says:

      Mist001 says:
      “you can mock all you want, wait until it turns up on your doorstep, then get back to me.”

      Mist – it’s turned up on every other French person’s doorstep too – and nearly a quarter of a million of them took to the streets on Saturday to give the establishment the finger.
      (BTW i nearly pissed myself yesterday when someone mentioned the idea of you participating in the French Revolution – sorry!)

      Anyway, ‘see instead of bemoaning your lot and inflicting bore-out syndrome on the rest of us, why don’t you get off your derrière and do something about it?

      Who knows, it may just be the credibility boost you need on here as it isn’t going to come from that defeatist claptrap you continue to peddle.

    275. Pixywine says:

      Hatuey. “that’s how vaccines work” What by half killing a person and putting them in hospital? Another rewrite of medical knowledge?

    276. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis,
      Ha ha ha. He hee he.
      No facts, no details.
      Salesman bluster and patter.
      You’re cornered..
      Oh I will have to take a vaccine to stop me laughing. It might be contagious.

    277. Pixywine says:

      For those of you who don’t mind being blackmailed into taking the vaccine go right ahead but stop applying peer pressure because you’re allowing yourselves to be worked by the Government

    278. Pixywine says:

      Andy. The use of the term” no mark” would imply the user fancies himself as someone special.

    279. Pixywine says:

      No it’s not a euphemism.

    280. Mist001 says:

      @ Fred

      Well, you and Ruby can both come back to me in December and we’ll see how much your tunes have changed then.

    281. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – I notice the other half of Tayside were mercilessly crushed today. I’m not a Celtic man but I reckon this Postecolglou guy is a winner. I listened to the game and it’s fast, passing football which is difficult to contain. Also, he’s got them thinking about their football, when to slow it down and when to play it wide and so on.

      I read about the Tay Bridge disaster some time ago. Many bridges exist in Germany over the Rhine and the Mosel. The piers are all protected by massive masonry or concrete buttresses shaped to protect them from the flow of the river. Crucially, they all extend high above the high water mark. There were also problems I believe with the steel quality, de-laminating and inclusions and all the rest of it and lack of bracing.

      I think we’ll get an answer this week. Someone told me to miss out the Holyrood nursery school and it all moves surprisingly quickly once you do that.

    282. Robert Louis says:

      Interesting to watch folk trying to divide the ALBA party. Interesting to note who they are.

      Here is a very useful primer on London’s well documented history of divide and conquer.

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/the-british-security-services/

    283. Ron Maclean says:

      Over three million people in Scotland have had both jags. If there’s a professor from Balamory university on youtube contesting that – fine with me. I’m one of the three million. I was offered both jags. I voluntarily travelled some distance both times to get them. Nobody escorted me. I’m just doing my best not to get Covid.

    284. Ron Maclean says:

      I’d rather read ‘intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate’ preferably about independence.

    285. Fred says:

      Mist001@7:32pm

      To quote the oft-used phrase:
      “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’”

    286. Dan says:

      Amends t shirt to “Strongbow soaked AUOB radical malcontent natavist no mark roaster”…

    287. Tannadice Boy says:

      Captain Yossarian 7:33pm
      I cannot comment on the Dees as Brian DoontheToon will be on my case. But I am like him. First United then Dundee and then the Angus teams. I support local in general. Although I have a temporary new local. I still think Rangers will win the league. My research on the Tay Bridge was centred on the probable cause of the disaster, the materials that were used. I wish you well on your campaign. If I am still living during IndyRef2 nobody will be more surprised than me. But Scotland has loads of talent it’s over to them.

    288. Hatuey says:

      Mia: “ The problem with your explanation is that several people with both vaccines not only went through “the initial” stages of catching the virus and developing the immune response. They actually went through the late stages too and even ended up in hospital needing treatment. In other words, they had a full blown infection. Sorry, that in my books says the vaccine did not work.”

      It’s not a problem and it’s no my explanation. It’s how the immune system functions. How else would it function if not by recognising infections at a cellular level and fighting them? We don’t have access to magic.

      There’s a very simple sequence involved. When you have no immunity, or haven’t been vaccinated, the sequence is virtually identical except that it takes much longer for your immune system to realise it’s in a fight and muster a response; sometimes it doesn’t muster a response quickly or strongly enough and you get very ill and/or die.

      As for those breakthrough cases who have been vaccinated and still go on to catch Covid-19 and end up sick, there’s about 5 possible explanations for that. The most common reason is a weak immune system — here the vaccine works in terms of alerting the immune system, but the immune system fails to respond robustly. That’s not the vaccine’s fault.

      No vaccine gives 100% protection but for most of us 80% to 95% is enough. Polio vaccination today generally gives about 85% protection. The gold standard measles vaccine gives around 94% protection.

      These percentages mean something and are used in very specific ways when it comes to measuring vaccine efficacy. Most people don’t understand them. Look into it.

    289. Mia says:

      “Can I respectfully suggest that you write a novel”

      I thank you for your suggestion.

      Now, do you have any extra point to add to the list or any price tag that we can link to any of the current points in the list, so we can begin to know the extent of the cost the political fraud is inflicting on Scotland via her obsessive determination to delay, if not derail, independence?

    290. Robert Louis says:

      Further to my post and link at 734pm,

      We also see the seeds of division being spread in many other aspects of the independence movement. I do not doubt that a large number of the silly social media postings on gender reform (and indy unrelated topics like anti-vaxxers) come from the British English army 77th brigade. It IS their actual job to do so. stir up division, cause splits, destroy the drive for the restoration of democracy to Scotland, and the end of English rule.

      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/77th_Brigade_(United_Kingdom)

      QUOTE : “The Brigade uses social media such as Twitter and Facebook as well as psyop techniques to influence populations and behaviour. David Miller, a professor of political sociology at the University of Bristol who studies British government propaganda and public relations, said that it is “involved in manipulation of the media including using fake online profiles””

    291. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 7:32 pm
      @ Fred

      Well, you and Ruby can both come back to me in December and we’ll see how much your tunes have changed then.

      Reply

      You’ll need to explain that one.
      What is going to happen in December?

    292. Mia says:

      “How else would it function if not by recognising infections at a cellular level and fighting them? We don’t have access to magic”

      If a person who has had the vaccine goes through the whole symptomatology and develops the disease to the point that they require being hospitalised, then the vaccine did not work – it is very simple. This can be because:

      a) the antigen that it contained was different to the present antigen therefore it was unable to generate antibodies

      b) the original antigen did not activate the immune system to produce antibodies

      c) the vaccine generated the right antibodies, but the concentration of antibodies decrease to the point it did no fight the infection or memory T cells were not formed

      The aim of the vaccine is to accelerate the production of antibodies to get rid of the infection because it causes irreparable damage. It is to prime your immune system to be in a position to respond faster to the antigen. It is quite clear that if a person goes through the entire disease before their antibodies kick in, then it means the vaccine did not work.

      If you tell me that the damage is not due to the virus itself but rather an overblown immunological response to the virus infection, then there was never a need for a vaccine in the first place. What was needed was something to regulate the volume of the immune response.

    293. Ron Maclean says:

      Alba, a newly formed independence party, is being accused of wanting a coronation for its leader, Alex Salmond, who is ‘running scared’ and ‘a loser’ – @jaggy.blog “Alexba Crosses Nasty Threshold.’

    294. J.o.e says:

      @Robert Louis

      ‘I do not doubt that a large number of the silly social media postings on gender reform (and indy unrelated topics like anti-vaxxers) come from the British English army 77th brigade. It IS their actual job to do so.’

      I think you might find the opposite to be true Bob.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/18398012.defence-chief-says-77th-brigade-countering-covid-misinformation/

      And because im feeling philosophical I will refrain from accurately describing you in the insulting terms you deserve for that smear.

      @Everyone else

      Just checked – pretty much everyone i’m close to is on a similar page to me. Including 2 acquaintances who were going to get jabbed – they changed their mind and now understand. Chin up, there’s more on our side than you know.

    295. Ruby says:

      I’m 100% in favour of Covid passports and I just wish they had been around way back when people were allowed to flood in from China/Italy totally unchecked.

    296. Andy Ellis says:

      @RLS 7.34 pm & others

      I don’t think that Alba will be divided, at least I hope it won’t, whether by a handful of folk carping from the sidelines about not having a “coronation” for Alex, or trying to steer policy before there’s even been a conference and we haven’t even had membership cards yet, or by outside interference, whether British nationalists, SNP cultists or anyone else.

      With the experience that many of us will have had in other parties, you have to hope we’re once bitten and twice shy types? Certainly the way the SNP has evolved and acted over the past several years is a great example of how not to do it.

      In the end our opponents only have the power over us as long as we are content to let them exercise it. Sadly it seems some of our opponents are closer to home than we’d like.

    297. Pixywine says:

      Ruby= Fascist

    298. Pixywine says:

      Robert Louis. You appear to be on the same side as 77th Brigade. Fighting the good fight are we? Hahahahaha.

    299. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      I try to deal with facts here. You should try to do likewise.

      Fact #1. I have been double-vaccinated. I am in that group of people for which the logic for vaccination is compelling.

      The fact of my being vaccinated does not blind me to the fact that there are plenty of other people who possess plenty of good reasons for not being vaccinated. Neither does it empower me to look down with lofty superiority from my moral high ground.

      If you cannot see that somebody being in possession of a Covid vaccination certificate actually tells you nothing whatsoever about whether they are Covid-free, then you can’t be helped. I hope your inability to think rationally and clearly for yourself does not put you or others you persuade into increased risk of contracting Covid.

    300. Pixywine says:

      Vaccine passports will mean you will have to submit yourself to any medical procedures deemed necessary by Pharma owned Government. It will mean you have parole not freedom. It will mean the state owns your stupid arse completely.
      Ruby. You should think things through before agreeing to having your freedoms taken from you then a lot of unnecessary impositions placed on you as the price of “Freedom”. Government has no right to remove your freedom and then force you to bargain for it back. You’re so supine. Like most of the Scots.

    301. Scott says:

      Govt were right to indemnify manufacturers, given *emergency use only*

      It does not protect Govt from legal remedies.

      eg

      1. GP cannot prescribe the vaccine.

      2. Health Boards are obliged to implement emergency health protocols.

      Voluntary vaccination via 2 is the mouse that chases 1 away.

      Lawful on common good grounds? ethical equivalent of a prescription with a forged signature willingly presented.

      Perhaps Mr Gove’s “unenforceable” comment can be fleshed out?

      Vaccines are useful. Consent to consent.

      You only have to ignore official invitations to deny any restrictions that may be imposed in future. You don’t have to voice dissent in Scotland, to remain silent is claiming and excercising the right not to create a contract.

      Health Boards have to offer vaccines as advised by govt guidance. They’ll remind you that records show no engagement and provide ways to engage voluntarily in the future.

      They can’t then send more invites.

      DWP do it with WCA etc, but they drag the arse out of all legal action so it puts many off the idea of starting any.

      I don’t know how English Law configures the above.

      Once vaccines becomes licenced for prescription, GP surgery will offer per guidance.

      Hope this clarifies some legal technicalities.

      Ordered chaos is a subset of chaos.

      And a subset of organised

      And oxymorons…

    302. Pixywine says:

      To the ignorant. The 77th Brigade is a formation of the British Army. Our Grandfather’s served in the British Army not the English Army. Shove all that poor Jock shit up your arses.

    303. John Main says:

      @Ruby

      “I’m 100% in favour of Covid passports”

      Ah, you must be another one who thinks

      Vax cert = Covid free

      FFS.

    304. robbo says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      8 August, 2021 at 7:51 pm
      Captain Yossarian 7:33pm

      “First United then Dundee and then the Angus teams. I support local in general. Although I have a temporary new local. I still think Rangers will win the league.”

      ————

      Behave yirsel Tangerine boy! You stick tae the debate wae Yossarian aboot that sinking school now lol .Celtic will win the league. Normal service will be resumed.

    305. Pixywine says:

      Covid is spoken of here like it was the worst thing that could ever happen to a person. Perceptions are altered by the power of the media. Many posters here don’t want to admit they have been fooled by the Governments spin around a ” virus”.

    306. JimuckMac says:

      I despair. I thought we had already established on here that Covid 19 is not a vaccine, it’s a GM compound.

    307. Captain Yossarian says:

      @robbo – Postacolgou comes with a worldwide reputation and he has recruited well so far. That’s all I am saying.

    308. Andy Ellis says:

      @ John Main 8.37 pm

      Of course there are people who have legitimate reasons for not being vaccinated: specific allergies, some pre-existing health conditions, pregnant or breast feeding women advice seems to vary depending on vaccine or which body you listen to…..

      If there are “other reasons” we’d need to know what they were to judge if they were good or not, wouldn’t we? Some of the reasons probably aren’t good. How will we know? Do enlighten us what these good reasons are.

      You said: “If you cannot see that somebody being in possession of a Covid vaccination certificate actually tells you nothing whatsoever about whether they are Covid-free, then you can’t be helped.”

      The trouble is I’ve never said that, nor do I believe it. I haven’t seen anyone else here do so either. You’ve simply made it up. I’ve no idea why. I’ve not commented on Covid certifications at all in fact. If I needed help I honestly doubt I’d expect or want it from you given the fact you seem incapable of telling who has said what. Is that deliberate, or are you just confused?

      I’m perfectly rational, as are most of those around me. I’m not aware of any anti-vaxxers in my immediate family, or amongst my friends and work colleagues. All we’ve seen of your rationality is you insisting I’ve said something I didn’t. It hardly speaks to you being clear. Whether you’re actively ill-intentioned or just a tad confused is open to debate.

    309. Scott says:

      Pixywine says:
      8 August, 2021 at 8:45 pm

      To the ignorant. The 77th Brigade is a formation of the British Army. Our Grandfather’s served in the British Army not the English Army. Shove all that poor Jock shit up your arses.

      There is no unified British Army, it is a marketing tool.

      The Lord Lyon directs all Messengers-at-Arms, which includes the military of Scotland.

      [Assumed consent by top brass at Sandhurst isn’t a permanent arrangement. ]

      Crown states of a single monarchy won’t set their armies on each other. Look what happened last time; WWI , pandemic, great depression, WWII

      Won’t happen.

    310. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      8 August, 2021 at 8:45 pm
      @Ruby

      “I’m 100% in favour of Covid passports”

      Ah, you must be another one who thinks

      Vax cert = Covid free

      FFS.

      Reply

      Here we go another one telling me what I think.

    311. Fred says:

      Ruby says:
      8 August, 2021 at 8:27 pm
      I’m 100% in favour of Covid passports and I just wish they had been around way back when people were allowed to flood in from China/Italy totally unchecked.

      Ruby, is that really your No1 reason for ushering in totalitarianism?
      I’m afraid to disappoint you but these people neither leave their country of origin or arrive at their destination by any conventional means. Most of them have never owned a passport. They don’t go through ports of entry and exit like you or I and flash their ID. They leave in the dead of night and arrive in the dead of night after weeks and months of being smuggled and transported across Asia and Europe like rustled cattle.
      Absolutely nothing will change on that front.

    312. Ruby says:

      Pixywine says:
      8 August, 2021 at 8:33 pm
      Ruby= Fascist

      Reply

      Why do you think that? Is it because I have a different opinion from you and in your world that is ‘verboten’?

    313. Ron Maclean says:

      I was duped for the last six years by the SNP. I don’t want that happening again with Alba. Alba could easily avoid ‘carping from the sidelines’ by adopting fair and open procedures.

    314. Ruby says:

      Fred says:
      8 August, 2021 at 9:13 pm
      Ruby says:
      8 August, 2021 at 8:27 pm
      I’m 100% in favour of Covid passports and I just wish they had been around way back when people were allowed to flood in from China/Italy totally unchecked.

      Ruby, is that really your No1 reason for ushering in totalitarianism?

      Reply

      ‘Totalitarianism’ has been here for a very long time or haven’t you noticed?
      FFS you can’t even have a smoke in a pub!

      If you check back you’ll find the first person to bring Covid to the UK was a tourist who flew here from China with a passport and the first person to bring Covid to Scotland flew from Italy with a passport.

    315. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Robbo 8:45pm
      The best team will win the league surely?. I have no dog in this fight. If we get in the top six then that’s my victory. Celtic are 2 to 1 second favourite. I think that’s a good analysis by the bookies.

    316. Ruby says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      8 August, 2021 at 9:22 pm
      I was duped for the last six years by the SNP. I don’t want that happening again with Alba. Alba could easily avoid ‘carping from the sidelines’ by adopting fair and open procedures.

      Reply

      Were you not a bit suspicious when Sturgeon fired Mark MacDonald for send a text?

    317. Ruby says:

      Posting that I was 100% in favour of Covid passports really got them going! 🙂

      How very dare I have an opinion that differs to theirs.

    318. Saffron Robe says:

      A study of all the residents in the Italian town of Vo’ found that natural immunity remains high even after nine months with 98.8 percent of people infected in February/March 2020 showing detectable levels of antibodies in November and there was no difference between people who had suffered symptoms of Covid-19 and those who had been symptom-free.

      “The strength of the immune response does not depend on the symptoms and the severity of the infection.” Dr Ilaria Dorigatti

      http://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24622-7

      On the other hand, the most that the manufacturers claim for the Covid-19 vaccines is anywhere between 60-90% immunity to severe infection which starts to wane almost immediately and is unlikely to last more than six months – hence the need for “booster” shots. It is also known that the Covid-19 vaccines do not prevent either contracting or transmitting the virus, they only reduce the severity of the infection in the individual. They are therefore not vaccines in the traditional sense, the best they can be called would be “mitigators” or “inhibitors”.

      Anyone who has watched the heart-breaking videos of those who have suffered severe adverse reactions to the Covid-19 vaccines cannot help but have concerns regarding their use, especially in a context where there is an attempt to vaccinate 100% of the population when less than 1% are at serious risk from the virus. And for those who have been debilitated by the vaccine, some permanently, there is no form of redress because the manufacturers cannot be held responsible. Not only is the severity of Covid-19 being over-reported, but deaths from the vaccines are being under-reported, attributed to illnesses caused by the vaccines and not to the vaccines themselves.

      Of course there have been many tragic deaths from Covid-19 but these have been as much a result of government mishandling of the pandemic (e.g. transfers to care homes), and the use of inappropriate treatment protocols (e.g. using antibiotics to treat a viral infection), as the virus itself.

    319. Ruby says:

      Not only can’t you have a smoke in a pub you can’t have a few drinks and then drive yourself home.

      You need to pass a test and have a licence to drive a car.

      What about the bloody MOT? I’ve got to take my car for an MOT even if I don’t want to. I’m quite happy with bald tyres and one headlight is fine. Why do I need two?

      Then there are all these rules and regulations about what you can & can’t say incase you hurt someone’s feelings.

      Fuckin’ totalitarianism it’s everywhere.

    320. Mist001 says:

      Wait until you find one day that the freedoms that you take for granted just now are severely restricted by not having the vaccine, then you’ll understand what I’m getting at.

      As most people know, it’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and say you will refuse to do this and refuse to do that and look brave and look as if you’re taking a stand but believe you me, it won’t happen like that in real life.

      Guaranteed that most of the people on here right now who are saying that they won’t take the vaccine, will get it eventually.

      As I’ve pointed out, you will have no choice.

    321. Ruby says:

      Saffron Robe
      What in your opinion should we be doing?

    322. Breastplate says:

      Ruby,
      Could you explain to me what you believe a Covid passport will achieve for you personally and society in general?

    323. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Robbo 8:45pm
      I have reflected in your assertion. So you are part of the Saltire waving, Palestinian shirt wearing, Celtic with undenying support of the transgender campaign and whatever. Meanwhile the real talent is leaving Scotland. I suspect you have never payed higher taxes in your puff.The new SNP in plain view. I doubt you raised a finger in 2014

    324. Ruby says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:02 pm
      Wait until you find one day that the freedoms that you take for granted just now are severely restricted by not having the vaccine, then you’ll understand what I’m getting at.

      As most people know, it’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and say you will refuse to do this and refuse to do that and look brave and look as if you’re taking a stand but believe you me, it won’t happen like that in real life.

      Guaranteed that most of the people on here right now who are saying that they won’t take the vaccine, will get it eventually.

      As I’ve pointed out, you will have no choice.

      Reply

      That’s got them telt!

      I won’t have the problem you’ve outline now or in December ‘cos I’ve already had two jabs which I expect is the same for the vast majority of people posting here.

    325. Scott says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:02 pm

      Guaranteed that most of the people on here right now who are saying that they won’t take the vaccine, will get it eventually.

      As I’ve pointed out, you will have no choice.

      Scotland calling elsewhere…

      Yer arse wi’ parsley.

      There is no legal mechanism to mandate vaccination in Scotland.

      All registered with a GP are entitled to NHS treatment.

      No GP can prescribe a Covid vax. It can only be offered by a Health Board. Acceptance is consensual. Refusal needs no confirmation of identity and is final unless & until the individual chooses.

      The NHS are being contracted to administer, which isn’t a link in a conspiracy. It’s how it’s always worked, apart from the time Trusts were given a shot and the money moved so fast that it seemed invisible.

      Scotland isn’t some totalitarian player in a Global conspiracy.

      If everyone had the statutory right to implied refusal of consent, people in England wouldn’t need to opt-out of the data harvesting of GP records.

      The world view imposed on Scotland seems to know little Scots Law.

    326. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:19 pm
      Ruby,
      Could you explain to me what you believe a Covid passport will achieve for you personally and society in general?

      Reply

      Not much at the moment. In future it could mean being able to go on holiday abroad without having to quarantine and perhaps the same on the return journey.

      It all depends what different countries decide to introduce.
      If for example I decide to go to France on holiday then I will be able to go to restaurants, museums, use public transport etc etc

      Same applies to the UK should they decide to introduce the same measures as France.

    327. Breastplate says:

      Scott,
      I believe Mist001 is suggesting that there will be little choice but to take the vaccine if you want to join society at any functionable level. Psychological coercion rather that physical coercion or lawful compliance.
      That’s my take on it anyway.

    328. Gary45% says:

      And on the Sabbath it came to pass.
      The “Big Man” stood in front of his congregation and said,
      “Why are these gullible arseholes howling at the moon, I gave them the Duck billed Platypus for entertainment.”

    329. Gary45% says:

      Breastplate @10.40
      Who gives a toss what you think, change the record.

    330. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Ron Maclean at 9.22pm

      Are you a spokesperson for Rob Brown at Jaggy Blog?

      After reading several of your “contributions” it seems you are from the Jaggy Blog supporter group.

      As such, please could you answer me this: Why does Rob Brown hate Alex Salmond?

      Is it because Rob earnt a lot of money from the BBC, or is it that Rob is persuing an agenda from his Bella Caledonia friend Mike Smallmember as a favour from his contributions as a journalist there at Belladonna aka Deadly Nightshady?

      https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/contributor/rob-brown/

      I understand the point that Rob is trying to make, but am seriously concerned Rob has shot himself in the foot by getting down and dirty.

      Many here on Wings Over Scotland begged Alex Salmond to help sort out the corrupt elements in the current woke-captured SNP Scottish Executive.

      When Alex answered our pleas and said YES, the least we can do is support the Alba Party.

      Yet the ex-BBC journalist Rob Brown seems intent on his dirt campaign with the bastardisation of the Alba Party name and crying it “Alexba” in what is at best a rude and obnoxious ploy for BBC Scotland and the Sunday Sport to give free support for Rob Brown’s wilting member ship.

      Jaggy is, for all intents and purposes a Unionist Shill. By deductive logic and the WAY in which Rob Brown writes, he hates Alex Salmond. Ergo he may have an allegiance to Nicola Sturgeon, or Boris Johnson.

      Is it the fact that Brown cannot get a proper job as a media hack anymore?

      So he has to reinvent himself as the Anti-Alex man.

      I have to wonder whether the new “Rob Brown Indy2 Party” will manage to attract the proverbial red phone box full of members?

      The sad ex-BBC and Mike Small fan-boy hack is hardly a charismatic Indy supporter magnet.

      Methinks the Jerk’s Blog has been rumbled.

    331. Breastplate says:

      Perhaps I didn’t express myself clearly, Ruby.
      Why do you feel anybody needs a Covid passport, (that includes people in France) what do you believe the benefits are?

    332. Breastplate says:

      Gary45%,
      I understand that you don’t do much thinking at all, nevermind take into consideration anybody else’s thoughts, that’s why I don’t ask you any questions.
      Please feel free to ignore me.

    333. Ron Maclean says:

      @Al-Stuart 10:46pm

      ‘Are you a spokesperson for Rob Brown at Jaggy Blog?’

      No.

    334. robbo says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:24 pm
      @Robbo 8:45pm
      I have reflected in your assertion. So you are part of the Saltire waving, Palestinian shirt wearing, Celtic with undenying support of the transgender campaign and whatever. Meanwhile the real talent is leaving Scotland. I suspect you have never payed higher taxes in your puff.The new SNP in plain view. I doubt you raised a finger in 2014

      ————
      Tangie boy

      WTF is that pile of mince btw? You need to reflect again ya dobber! Where the heck do you get that pish from what i said about who I think will win the league? Get tae yir bed auld yin.

    335. Scott says:

      Breastplate says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:40 pm

      Scott,

      Implied withholding of consent is the starting point in Scotland.

      No covid vax can be forced, no restrictions imposed on withheld consent, no need to panic.

      Scots Law & Scotland is all I can speak to in the debate.

    336. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      8 August, 2021 at 10:47 pm
      Perhaps I didn’t express myself clearly, Ruby.
      Why do you feel anybody needs a Covid passport, (that includes people in France) what do you believe the benefits are?

      Reply
      I’ve already answered that!

    337. Tannadice Boy says:

      #Brian Doonthetoon 10:41pm
      Thanks for the links. Apologies for the result today. I listened to the game on the radio whilst travelling. It’s 3 points and nothing else. Keep the faith.

    338. Gary45% says:

      Tannadice Boy @10.24
      Commenting on Palestine, that’s Anti-Semitic, reel it in son or you might get reported.(Aye Palestinians are Semite) FACT.
      Explain the “Real Talent” leaving Scotchland, is that the Thatcher Jocks you’re referring to, and how’s the 40K begging for your brother going? It must be shite living in Scotchland?
      Higher Taxes? I take it that’s why you Fkd off to Thatcher Land?

    339. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gary45% –

      ‘Die quietly, nobody’s interested, that goes with the rest of the moon howlers.’

      You directed that comment at Joe.

      As pathetic as it is nasty – pretty much sums up the overall quality of your contributions here.

    340. Gary45% says:

      Tannadump Boy
      Remember and pucker those lips.

    341. Gary45% says:

      IanB ,
      Who gives a toss what you think.
      At one time I held you in high regard, you’re a lost cause man.
      Don’t bother replying, I’ve no interest in what you say.

    342. Hatuey says:

      Saffron Robe, it’s clear to me that you really have no idea what you’re talking about. And that’s one of the big problems in these debates.

      Very few vaccines completely prevent infection (sterilising immunity). You refer to Covid-19 vaccines as merely mitigating. If you understood the science, you’d know that most vaccines merely mitigate, and you’d know that we call the protection they supply “disease immunity”.

      It’s worth pointing out that merely mitigating is often enough to save someone’s life; that is to say, it’s enough to save someone’s father, someone’s mother, someone’s son, someone’s daughter. The Covid-19 vaccines are saving thousands of such lives every day.

      It’d take you seconds to look stuff like that up and if it’s your goal to sound knowledgeable I’m puzzled that you didn’t bother doing so. It’s really not rocket science.

      Of course, when you vaccinate hundreds of millions of people over a short period of time, there’s going to be lots of breakthrough cases and lots of people with adverse reactions. Yellow Card data is clear, though; levels of adverse reactions are lower than expected. Again, why not have a look at that data, it was updated just a few weeks ago and is available online?

      While you’re at it, look into how vaccine efficacy is measured. Again, it isn’t rocket science but it’s a long established methodology and worth understanding. The percentage of protection attributed to a vaccine is a very specific measure based on outcomes in the real world rather than in the minds of pseudo-scientific cranks.

    343. Breastplate says:

      No Ruby you didn’t answer but don’t tax yourself.

    344. Mist001 says:

      Breastplate is correct. They get what I’m saying. For anyone thinking that Scotland won’t make vaccines mandatory, then like people, Scotland won’t have a choice because of this:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_Act_2020

    345. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Robbo 10:52pm
      That’s what I expected. An ill educated rant. The new SNP in plain view. Ageist but that’s the new SNP. You notice he never rejected the notion he wasn’t in the higher tax payers club. You can you wear a Celtic shirt, A Palestinian shirt as long as someone pays for it. And we expect Independence?.

    346. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      8 August, 2021 at 11:04 pm
      No Ruby you didn’t answer but don’t tax yourself.

      Reply
      Fuck off!

    347. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Gary45% 10:56pm
      Another example of why we would win Independence any time soon. He thinks he was the only that voted for Independence.

    348. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gary45% –

      I can see why you don’t want a reply, but here it is anyway –

      It’s not okay to tell someone else in this place to ‘die quietly’.

      And if you really can’t see that, you need to have a serious think about what you’re doing here.

    349. robbo says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      8 August, 2021 at 11:06 pm
      @Robbo 10:52pm
      That’s what I expected. An ill educated rant. The new SNP in plain view. Ageist but that’s the new SNP. You notice he never rejected the notion he wasn’t in the higher tax payers club. You can you wear a Celtic shirt, A Palestinian shirt as long as someone pays for it. And we expect Independence?.

      ———— Listen ya twat . I’m no in the SNP- new or old. I’m certainly not in favour of of chicks wae dicks either. No idea what Palestine has to do with who I think will win a football league? You’re wae off base wae this.
      I had a wee bit of banter knowing you were a Tangerine fan and you go off in a rant about SNP, PALISTINE, CELTIC, Saltire flag wearing high taxpayers club. What are you on man!

    350. Hatuey says:

      Tannadice, why would expressions of solidarity with Palestinians perturb you?

      And why do you think your tax bracket matters here?

      I’ve never considered that being a high earner gave me any special rights — actually I’m quite ashamed, to be honest.

      Anyway, I think the treatment of the Palestinians is shocking and disgraceful, and everybody who aspires to be a decent human being should do more, regardless of their income level.

    351. Hatuey says:

      Lots of aggression around tonight. People losing their cool.

      I agree with Ian Brotherhood… it’s not okay to tell someone to die quietly.

      Everybody needs to pipe down ffs.

    352. Scott says:

      Mist001 says:
      8 August, 2021 at 11:06 pm

      Breastplate is correct. They get what I’m saying. For anyone thinking that Scotland won’t make vaccines mandatory, then like people, Scotland won’t have a choice because of this:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_Act_2020

      That Act doesn’t allow implied withholding of consent to be sisted or abolished in Scotland.

      Your ignorance of Scots Law is apparent.

      Please educate yourself before posting.

    353. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Hi Ron Maclean at 10.51pm

      Thankyou for that prompt response.

      I needed to clear up some matters concerning Rob Brown’s professional conduct. Especially as he is not “just” a journalist, but has actually received remuneration from Falmouth University for LECTURING in the subject and should be held to a higher standard.

      Ron, perhaps you will forgive my misreading your earlier posts at the dissonance between them and your unequivocal “NO” 35 minutes ago.

      So aligned were you with Jaggy Blog, I actually thought your name was a nom de plume for Rob Brown. With the internet and BTL it is often difficult to tell nowadays.

      Fortunately Rob Brown appears to be a “proper” journalist and I trust he abides by the following code…

      https://www.ipso.co.uk/editors-code-of-practice/

      There are segments in there that might appear to be infracted, for example “section 3” of the IPSO Code and the fact Rob has moved from being a professional and ethical journalist to a quasi-stalker of the Alba Party. This is evidenced by Rob Brown’s highly questionable efforts to use the discredited techniques of old hacks to harass a victim into making a comment under duress by pressurising them via the application of forceful and/or unscrupulous means.

      I refer of course to the Rob Brown crossing the Rubicon into what he calls the “nasty” side. But with some irony, it is Rob Brown who is evidently guilty of the bastardisation of the name “Alba Party” into an obnoxious nomenclature of “Alexba Party”

      This may seem trivial, but Brown has already solicited articles from his friends in the mainstream media to promote his Jaggy Blog by discrediting the embryonic voluntary ALBA Party by the bastardisation device he has deployed. MSM at its worst. TRUTHfal my derrière.

      Fair enough there are definite administrative problems at ALBA. But I would have RESPECTED the integrity of Rob Brown and regarded him as honest, if he had taken a month’s sabbatical and rolled up his sleeves, volunteered at ALBA and started writing out envelopes and making metal membership badges. Maybe even getting down and clean to stick self-adhesive stamps on 6,000 envelopes.

      But of course, the word-prosztitute (as prejorative as using “Alexba”) would not receive any wages.

      Real political activist volunteers WOULD volunteer. Self-interested MSM creeps do NOT volunteer. They just want money, money, money.

      Dirty sneaky MSM hachpks always, always want their 30 pieces of silver.

      This is a manufactured dispute. Brown could help fix it. Instead he is screwing the Alba Party for free publicity.

      That brings us back to you Ron/Rob. You do seem to post a lot of free publicity links off of the back of the Wings Over Scotland website to help the Jaggy Blog and Rob’s finances and/or ego?

      I am just glad that my interest in political Machiavelli antics can be switched off instantly.

      Goodnight.

      Click and the internet is OFF.

    354. Mist001 says:

      You can withhold consent all you want but it means that you WILL be ostracised from society.

      Maybe some people are quite happy to live alone in the hills in their croft with only a sheep and AM radio to keep them company but the majority of society don’t want to live that way so the only way they’ll be able to function is when they do consent to having the vaccine.

      When I say consent, I mean that figuratively. As I’ve been saying all night, people don’t have a choice. Consent doesn’t come into it.

    355. robbo says:

      Tannadice boy

      Another thing. I’m ageist tae ? wtf man?

      For the obvious East coaster it’s a wee bit over the top for you- a dinnae get it ! You just don’t get irony do you? Called yourself “Tannadice boy” anaw lol.

      Where I come fae lots of blokes call blokes “AULD YIN.”

      IT’S A WEST COAST TERM OF ENDEARMENT. Obviously lost on you toffy nose big tax payer yi aye!
      I need tae go oot and get slaughtered the mora- goat a twinty oan yi?

    356. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Robbo 11:42pm
      The cause of Independence is down to you and others. Is it any wonder real Independence supporters give up ?.

    357. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Hatuey 11:26pm
      Lots of aggression here tonight you say but you are instrumental in that incitement. You are a troll we know but you have missed the heat tonight.

    358. Pixywine says:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9XwkSgZstPs&t=1603s
      This guy is a free form genius.

    359. Pixywine says:

      Ruby. Why are you happy to accept conditional ” Freedom” with unnecessary restrictions on your life?
      Can’t you see the bigger Green Agenda when it comes to air travel.?
      From now on only the very rich will be able to afford to travel by air the rest of us will be severely restricted from air travel to “save the environment”. Can’t you see the direction of travel politically?

    360. Pixywine says:

      Ruby. You need two headlights incase some other driver mistakes you for a motorbike in the dark. Bald tyres are dangerous. Mot is concerned mainly with safety toad worthy Ness. Women drivers. Streuth.

    361. Pixywine says:

      Gary 45.Did you know that Onanism is bad for you?

    362. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis “if there are other reasons we need to know what they are” in regard to a person’s vaccination status who are this “we” that you speak of and why do you assume the right to know such a personal thing about someone?
      A mindset of fear and suspicion is being fostered by the Government and its tame media.

    363. Breeks says:

      The savoury lesson COVID is teaching everybody, is that governments are beginning to realise the consequences of their incessant lies, sophistry and infidelity, because they’re discovering they have lost the trust of the people, and increasingly have to use force and coercion to get the people to comply and obey the same Government’s advice.

      We are all beginning to reap what we sow. “They” are reaping a resentful public which increasingly ignores their advice with acerbic cynicism, and we are reaping weakened and vulnerable status as a nation, because we have been much too tolerant of shitty, shambling, amateurish Government for much too long.

    364. J.o.e says:

      @Mist

      You are right that talk is cheap.

      Im serious though. I think the difference between me and you might be our idea of what the future might look like if the public continue to comply.

      Covid and mandatory vaccinations are just the beginning.

      It has to be opposed with everything we have.

    365. John Main says:

      Stand out comment of the night from Andy Ellis:

      “I’m perfectly rational”

    366. John Main says:

      Ruby

      Nobody is telling you what you think or what to think.

      Before you try for the complex stuff, start simple and just learn to think.

    367. Effigy says:

      You really have to hand it to the Tories and the stupidity
      of the English electorate!

      Our Doctors and Nurses risked their lives and sanity to
      save patients even though Westminster failed to supply
      them with PPE. They even saved the life of their clown in chief.

      Their reward, clap hands and rattling pots on a Thursday night,
      a proposed 1% pay rise raised to 3% due to a public outcry.
      Now we see that inflation will be over 4% we can see it’s actually
      a 1% pay cut on top of the 15% they lost with the Tory pay cap.

      Now they wonder why people don’t want to enter the profession after
      the removal of bursaries and enduring student debt?

      Tory MP Kwerang was on Sky and asked about retired Gurkha’s will to
      starve themselves to death as they cannot endure living off a Westminster
      Pension of £20 per month for risking their lives as soldiers in the English Army.

      He was unable to comment not knowing all the facts????

      The man isn’t sure if a lifetime of service deserves more than £20 per month?

      They could stick children down the mines if Thatcher hadn’t closed them.
      They could stick them up the chimneys while they investigate if they enjoy it
      and the exercise is good for them.

      What chance has an ordinary U.K. worker got in being treated fairly or well if
      they have a track record like this in people who risk their lives for them?

    368. Andy Ellis says:

      @pixywine 1.46 am

      Good grief, it’s not the Spanish Inquisition. Try, through the specks of spittle flying into your eyes, to get some perspective. The “we” referred to is those trying to decide whether the reasons are “good” or not in terms of the debate. No Covid enforcement police or windows on to people’s souls was being advocated.

      The assertion was made that people had good reasons for not being vaccinated. It’s up to those making the assertion to tell us what they are, and more importantly prove that they have more substance than being a contrarian or some a-scientific woo woo that entitles reasonable people not point at them and laugh. This really isn’t rocket science. As we’ve seen above, this place is full of people pontificating about things they patently don’t understand (yes, we’re looking at you Saffron Robe) who are schooled by people who are more knowledgeable than them who correct them on the actual science and procedures (thanks Hatuey!).

      And yet here we are: we still haven’t been told what these good reasons are. I outlined some of exceptions which are easily found on the NHS guidance, but it is incumbent surely on those positing “good reasons” to tell us what they are, hold them up to scrutiny and justify them. Not liking “the man”, or thinking it allows Bill Gates to track your movements for example are not good reasons.

      Happy to help!

    369. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      One excellent reason for not getting vaccinated against COVID is that for the majority of those who catch it, COVID is just a minor inconvenience.

      Anybody who is confident they are in that majority, because they are young and/or fit, can make their own estimate of the pros and cons of vaccination and decide for themselves.

      I don’t expect you will engage in any constructive way with this idea. Being charitable, I think it may be the case that you truly believe that “society” owes our health and well-being, so that when Society tell us to do something, WE MUST OBEY.

      That runs counter to my beliefs. It runs counter to everybody who, in the “bad old days”, believed for example, in a woman’s unchallengeable right to do what she wished with her own body.

      But there you have it. The people who insist absolutely that a woman should have the right to abort a healthy baby are probably the same people who are insisting she must get vaccinated against something that poses her no threat. It’s a poor human who can’t convince herself of the truth of two mutually exclusive concepts, as somebody once said.

    370. John Main says:

      Shit, I meant owns our health, not owes our health.

    371. Republicofscotland says:

      Scotland is in the top three countries in Europe for producing renewable energy, only Norway and Iceland are ahead of Scotland in producing clean electricity.

      Scotland produced 97% of its electricity from renewables last year, and exported a whopping 19.3TWh.

      The SNP government are lauding this as wonderful, as Scotland is ahead of the rUK on producing renewable energy, then why are Scots still paying through the nose for electricity if we are producing so much of it.

      Again the Scottish government like on so many other things, is prepared to laud them, but not fight for the Scots. Sturgeon set up a peoples power company called Our Power, it was much praised by Sturgeon and the SNP, it didn’t last long it failed miserably.

      Scotland is swimming in power sources, but many Scots are living in fuel poverty and again under Sturgeon, this winter we’ll see many poorer families choose between heating and eating.

      I want the people of Scotland to benefit from this clean energy source, not still pay high prices for it. The SNP cannot be trusted to deliver this, Scotland must be the only country to discover oil and gas and become poorer.

    372. Republicofscotland says:

      As many Scots face another Winter in fuel poverty whilst the SNP brags about our bounty of renewable energy, and 270,000 planned operations on the NHS are missed, a leaked email shows that the SNP and the Greens are going implement a New Zealand style co-operation deal, where some Green MSPs will hold ministerial posts in the government.

      There’s so much to be fixed in Scotland, fuel poverty, child hunger and poverty, NHS waiting times, real living wages, education etc, and the SNP is focusing on none of this, as for independence forget it under this lot.

    373. Mia says:

      “look into how vaccine efficacy is measured”

      Let’s look at it from a practical point of view that everybody without an epidemiology or scientific degree can understand, shall we?

      1. Of all the positive COVID-19 PCR tests, what exact percentage represent people with at least one dosis of the jag? And what percentage are patients who had already had COVID-19 before?

      2. of all the people currently in hospital with COViD in Scotland, what is the exact percentage of those who already had at least one dosis of the vaccine? And what is the percentage of patients who already had a positive COVID previously?

      3. Of the people who died of COVID-19, what percentage had at least one dosis of the vaccine? What percentage had tested positive for COVID 19 for at least a second time?

      4. For all the individuals who had at least one dosis of the jag and got infected/were hospitalised with COVID/died of covid, when did they receive the jag? How many months/weeks ago was this?

      5. If for questions 1,2 and 3, you compare the percentages of jag/no jag per age range, what do you see?

      The answers to those questions should give you in practical terms an idea of efficiency of the jag. If you have a figure that is close to 50/50 when for each question you compare the percentage of those who had the jag vs those who didn’t, then the jag is useless. The closer to 50/50 the result is, the less useful the vaccine will be.

      This information should be readily available to the public and reported each day so people can evaluate themselves the efficiency of the vaccine and if they consider worthwhile going through the risk of having it on. Yet, it is not. Why would that be?

      In my personal opinion because the clinical value of the vaccine has been seriously overestimated.

      I invite you to take a look at Israel. Israel was weeks ahead of the UK administering the vaccine. Over 60% of the population has had both jags. They have even given already a third booster to a small proportion of the population. Yet, their infections are now increasing, not decreasing. They have experienced a sharp increase in the number of infections in care homes, where most of the individuals (both the residents and the staff) would have had both jags. The number of hospitalisations of serious cases are also increasing.

      They blame this on the delta variant. I have an alternative explanation:

      Perhaps the vaccine can only provide you with transient immunity. If I am not mistaken, it has already been demonstrated that the concentration of antibodies decreases quite rapidly after infection and it is unlikely that exposure to the antigen will generate long term immunity.

      https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4163

      https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

      If that is the case, to make the most of the vaccine, the Scotgov should have taken advantage of the short window of opportunity offered by the vaccine to lock the borders simultaneously and stopping more variants coming in. In that way, they would have eradicated the virus in Scotland and then they would only have to invest energy in controlling the entry of the virus through the borders. If there was a will, that should not have been that difficult. Yet, they did the opposite. They are wasting the window of opportunity offered by the vaccine by allowing more and more virus to come in and the one that is already present to accelerate its passing through the population by removing all restrictions. This, in my opinion, might render the transient immunity offered by the vaccine pretty much worthless in the mid term.

      But that is of course my personal opinion. In any case, I am already preparing myself for another mighty peak in the autumn with Nicola’s mentally crippling lockdowns unless they jag us all again to hide their blunder. I am awaiting for their excuse this time.

      It comes to a time that one need to seriously ask:

      how far is this Sgov ready to go in order to keep the darn borders open? Are they prepared to subject the entire population to a jag every 3 months, with the health risks this entails for the population, for the sake of keeping those borders open?

      What is more important for Sturgeon’s government, the wellbeing of the Scottish people or keeping the borders open to maintain on life support the illusion that Scotland can be governed as part of a politically corrupt and decaying UK?

      Here is an study in Israel
      https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210806/PfizerBioNTech-COVID-19-vaccine-offers-decreased-protection-six-months-after-second-dose-suggests-Israeli-study.aspx

      This other study is in USA:
      https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210803/Unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-have-similar-viral-load-in-communities-high-in-SARS-CoV-2-delta.aspx

    374. Davie Oga says:

      John Main

      Fine point. The whole narrative is filled with these contradictory, intellectually dishonest, truisms.

      Mass psychosis

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

    375. robbo says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      9 August, 2021 at 12:27 am
      @Hatuey 11:26pm
      Lots of aggression here tonight you say but you are instrumental in that incitement. You are a troll we know but you have missed the heat tonight.

      ————-

      Aye it’s all my fault right enough ! Piss off you snobby arse!

    376. robbo says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      9 August, 2021 at 12:19 am
      @Robbo 11:42pm
      The cause of Independence is down to you and others. Is it any wonder real Independence supporters give up ?.

      ———–

      This one actually . Still piss off!

    377. Breeks says:

      The next practicable swipe at Independence that I can see is the next UK General Election, probably in 2023, but maybe earlier if Johnston’s disastrous Government runs into difficulties and votes of no confidence.

      Right now, all of Scotland who believes in Independence should be striving to make that General Election which IS coming, into a plebiscite Election on Independence.

      The campaign should be underway now, first, to sell the idea of a Plebiscite Election to the Scottish Electorate, and if we can, to do in 2021-2023 what Alex Salmond managed to do between 2012 and 2014.

      I believe Alex Salmond could be, might be, in the correct orbit to have a chance of doing that again, this time leading Scotland to actual Independence, but he needs “presence” to do it, but the inertia and acrimonious division created by Sturgeon and her feckless SNP are going to relish the prospect of seeing him shot down in flames. We have to stop that happening. We have to give the man a chance.

      Sturgeon hasn’t got it in her to win Independence. She is a failure, and a nasty and vindictive failure at that. But Alex Salmond is not.

      I appeal to all SNP voters and supporters, STOP drinking the SNP Koolaid, and look at the practicable options Scotland has. Scotland could be free, and sailing under an Independent Scottish Saltire by 2023, but ONLY if we do the necessary legwork NOW.

      The 2023 UK General Election, if it doesn’t happen sooner, is a chance to sideline Sturgeon in Holyrood, and have ALBA adopted as the voice and conscience of an Independent Scotland in waiting… Not waiting for consent from the ditherers in No10 or Bute House, but waiting for the consent of Scotland’s people to release Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty from it’s 300 years of imprisonment and withdraw Scotland from the Treaty of Union.

      ALBA wouldn’t even have to win the Election against the SNP, IF, repeat IF, the SNP can agree to the terms of a plebiscite Election, where votes for ALBA and votes for the SNP are BOTH votes for Independence in a plebiscite. Work in parallel, not against each other. All that takes is for both Parties to have it in their manifesto, a vote for them is a vote for Independence, and then to behave like grown-ups when it comes to maximising the YES vote and squeezing the Unionist vote. We cannot afford another divisive “both votes SNP death to everybody else” philosophy poisoning the well. We couldn’t afford it the last time, and just look at how many List seats went to Unionists.

      If Sturgeon won’t engage with that, THEN GET RID OF STURGEON.

    378. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 8.46 am

      I’m quite happy to engage constructively. You’ve provided a reason, but whether it qualifies as a good one is open to debate. Drawing an equivalence between a woman’s right to choose whether to terminate a pregnancy and the decision not to be vaccinated seems like over reach to me. I doubt the majority would accept the equivalence.

      I’m unconvinced by your reasoning that because Covid for most is a minor inconvenience then it’s ok for most of us not to be vaccinated. The evidence is that vaccination provides protection to those who get covid. Even if you’ve only had one jab it’s reported that those who have been vaccinated don’t suffer as badly and are less likely to be seriously affected.

      The scientific evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that any possible risks of the vaccine are considerably lower than those associated with Covid infection. From a purely Covid-roulette point of view therefore the cost benefit analysis both for individuals and the broader community suggests it’s a good idea to be vaccinated. There may of course be discussions about whether children need to be vaccinated (although they can of course pass it in, even if they aren’t generally that seriously affected) and/or whether it would be better to divert such scarce resources to providing vaccines to poorer countries with lower rates of adult vaccination.

      Your “good reason” though isn’t really concerned with potential safety concerns (however misguided these are) or with the science, you’re making what seems to be a civil liberties case that people shouldn’t be compelled to be vaccinated because the state shouldn’t dictate to them and – as others above are caricaturing it to my mind – this represents a slippery slope to authoritarian rule, fascism and putting people in camps. It all seems a bit, well….hysterical and over the top. If some folk feel their “freedoms” are being unduly constrained then they can either not comply and face any consequences, or comply and campaign to change the policies they disagree with.

      The plain fact is folk like you and Mist are losing the argument. The vast majority of the population are following the orthodox position and the scientific advice provided. You can howl in to the storm all you like, but it’ll never be more than a niche position being advocated by a minority of cranks.

    379. Mia says:

      It is clear as day that the biggest threat to a win by the SNP in the incoming council elections and the future General Election is ALBA.

      Am I to understand this could be the reason jaggy is throwing all his toys out of the pram at once? Another SNP/British state tool to maintain the hegemony of the political fraud and her quadriplegic, toothless “SNP” and to keep the real independentists at bay?

      Oh dear. What a shame. And that was me thinking his blog would be a worthwhile read. Not anymore. It seems to have descended on a petty ALBA hate fest. Like THE National but on steroids.

    380. Hatuey says:

      Sorry, Mia. I’m afraid you’ve failed the exam.

      Vaccine efficacy is measured in the early stages of clinical trials. It’s expressed as a percentage. Naturally we need to know how efficacious a drug or vaccine is before going ahead and rolling it out.

      I’ve been analysing data from Israel and referring to it on here for about 5 weeks. It isn’t as bleak as you want to make it sound — please see my distinction earlier between ‘sterilising immunity’ and ‘disease immunity’.

      Why is the distinction important? Because with ‘disease immunity’ infection rates don’t matter, all that matters is the outcome — seriousness of symptoms, hospitalisation, deaths, etc.

      As I said earlier, most vaccines only supply degrees of ‘disease immunity’. They won’t technically stop you catching a virus but they will stop it developing into a fulll blown disease and killing you, as per the efficacy levels mentioned.

      The following is completely incorrect;

      ‘If you have a figure that is close to 50/50 when for each question you compare the percentage of those who had the jag vs those who didn’t, then the jag is useless. The closer to 50/50 the result is, the less useful the vaccine will be.”

      A vaccine with 1% efficacy would technically be beneficial. I have no idea what “50/50” means in scientific terms. Nothing, I suspect.

      Antibodies

    381. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Davie Oga (9.51) –

      Thanks for that link.

      Brilliant stuff, and offers a wee glimmer of hope.

      I’ve posted the link on Twitter and urge everyone to watch and share.

      Hoots!

      😉

    382. Hatuey says:

      Sorry, forgot to provide this link with info on antibodies and antigens, a much more complex subject than people assume; https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/articles/antigen-vs-antibody-what-are-the-differences-293550

    383. Gary45% says:

      Ian Brotherhood@11.19
      A “real” personal experience of the last 16 months, not somebody’s Twat site, Face plook account or internet nonsense.
      These are things I have actually experienced regarding Covid.
      A close friends cousin on a ventilator for around 15 days, luckily survived.
      A close friend got Covid was hospitalised and luckily survived, unfortunately his mother caught it and died, yes really died from the REAL pandemic.
      There are around another dozen who were not hospitalised but had a pretty bad time with the symptoms, luckily all survived.
      NOT ONE of them said “It was just like having the flu” and the rest of the nonsense that gets banded about on here daily.
      You accused me of being nasty, think for one moment about the situations I have just detailed, and having to waste time defending what’s real, who’s being nasty?
      Regarding the quality of my recent contributions, exactly what have yours been??
      And seriously don’t reply, this really is my last contribution on WoS, get on with your lives , hopefully ignorance doesn’t win.

    384. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      9 August, 2021 at 7:44 am
      @Mist

      You are right that talk is cheap.

      Im serious though. I think the difference between me and you might be our idea of what the future might look like if the public continue to comply.

      Covid and mandatory vaccinations are just the beginning.

      It has to be opposed with everything we have.

      Reply

      That is absolutely correct either you collaborate with people you deem to be fascists or you fight them in whatever way you can.

      I don’t have any strong feelings about the Covid vaccine however there are other things I do feel strongly about & like J.O.E. I will be looking for ways not to comply.

    385. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      Let me pose a couple of questions regarding vaccine efficacy.

      If you were to give the vaccine to 1million healthy 10year olds and none of them developed Covid in the following 6 month window, how much could this be attributed to the vaccine and how much could this be attributed to their own immune systems?

      If you gave the vaccine to 1million healthy 10 year olds and a placebo to 1million healthy 10 year olds, what difference would you expect?

      These are legitimate questions and really do need honest answers.

    386. Mia says:

      “Vaccine efficacy is measured in the early stages of clinical trials”

      Not for the average Joe, mate. For those of us who are not scientists/epidemiologists nor have an economic/political interest in forcing through the population a vaccine that does not work, efficiency of the vaccine is measured by comparing the percentage of incidence of the virus/incidence of hospitalisations/incidence of death due to the virus between those who received the vaccine versus those who don’t.

      If the percentage is 50/50 or close to that figure, then the vaccine does not work. It does not reduce neither infection nor transmission nor rapid elimination of the virus upon infection.

      It is as simple as that. A lecture on clinical trials is not required thank you.

      Bullshit names like “sterilising immunity or disease immunity” are not required either. I know how the immune system works and what vaccines are, thank you.

      The vaccination process is simply presenting your immune system with an antigen with the hope it will form memory cells that will respond quickly upon infection with the real thing.

      The key here is a rapid response that will get rid of hte virus in the early stages. If a vaccinated person has to go through the entire stages of the disease before its immune system kicks in and kills the virus, it means the vaccine is worth sht. It is just the immune system of the person that fights the infection and would most probably would have done the same if they had not had the jag.

      The longer the disease progresses and the bigger the damage of your own cells due to the infection, the higher the chance of an immunological overresponse, which will kill you. The “disease” and symptoms are not caused as much by the virus itself as they are caused by your own immune system response to the virus, surely you must know that.

      Your “disease immunity” waffle is therefore just a pile of bullshit for the average Joe like me. It is a pile of bullshit because, considering it is your immune response what causes the symptoms in the first place, the only way you can achieve “disease immunity” is if you tone down your immune response permanently, which defeats the purpose of the vaccine. Depressing immunity is he opposite to what a vaccine does. You would need an immune suppressant for that.

      A clinical trial is performed with a very small sample of the population (which in itself can bias the study – if they pay you for taking part, you may find that people from more deprived backgrounds volunteer in higher proportion) and under strict conditions that not necessarily reproduce the actual conditions under which the vaccine will have to perform when rolled out to the whole population. In other words, the real, trustworthy way of measuring vaccine effectiveness is no in a clinical trial, but when rolled out to the population. A clinical trial is nothing more than a controlled exercise designed specifically to be able to sell the vaccine as useful.

      So, are you in a position to answer any of the questions I included in my comment above and that seek to find the percentage of positive cases among the vaccinated? Because if you don’t then you are just answering for the sake of it and wasting my time.

    387. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 10.13 am

      Even if the SNP rank and file suddenly grow a pair and eject Sturgeon (seen zero evidence they have the will to do so, or the organisational smarts even if they did) there’s no guarantee the post Sturgeon party would look and feel significantly different is there? It’d still be infested with woke entryists and have a hollowed out activist base, and presumably have the same issues with it’s processes and organisational structure that allowed Sturgeon and her cadres to derail the party in the first place.

      Alba shouldn’t be that concerned about Westminster elections IMO. It will be tempting to at least threaten to stand candidates against the worst offending SNP troughers right enough, but unless e SNP is totally transformed between now and the next WM elections it won’t make any difference to independence outcomes how many MPs they win, because will still be in the same position we are today and have been for the past 7 years.

      Alba should focus on the next Holyrood election and ensuring it is plebiscitary. If the SNP and Greens still won’t play ball as happened in May’s elections, then we have to ensure we start dismantling the SNPs position to force them to accept plebiscitary elections as a route to indy. If that doesn’t happen we’re looking at a “real” 25 year generation for another indyref if we’re lucky.

    388. Pixywine says:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Xz4aqemz0
      A reasonable take on climate alarmism

    389. JimuckMac says:

      A four nation U.K. announcement.

      Status of COVID-19
      As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease

      https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

      And because they downgraded this ‘imminent threat’ it means all Covid laws were revoked on the the above date also.

      This really is one hell of a crime being committed against the people.

    390. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis. You double down on the demand to know a strangers health status and think that’s an argument after first attempting to diminish and denigrate me. Everyone else who reads you properly must see the poor quality of your debate.

    391. Meg merrilees says:

      JimmuckMac@ 11.27

      Amzing how the WM gov managed to downgrade the classification of Covid 19 only days before we went into a National Lockdown – which, of course, allowed them to create emergency legislation basically allowing them to do whatever they want without having to follow ‘normal’ protocols.

      Amazing also that the Scottish Gov has voted to allow itself to continue in this mode until March? 2022.

      I’m sure the Good Law Project will be looking very closely at the actions of the WM gov and their incredible spending during the last 18 months and this may well be their starting point.

    392. Andy Ellis says:

      @pixywine 11.38 am

      I’m not demanding anything. I doubt any reasonable person will be taking any lessons from someone with your record of debate on here. The fact that you’re now touting climate change denial tells us everything we need to know. Your whole take on Covid is not just hysterical it’s risible.

      Nobody sane buys the schtick you and some others are coming out with that the responses of our governments – however imperfect – and/or our responses as a community, show that we’re in danger of being cast in to some dystopian authoritarian nightmare. It’s just Trump style nonsense. It should and will be treated as such by the vast majority of the population.

    393. Fireproofjim says:

      The once great, Independence supporting, site of Wings over Scotland has now been almost totally taken over by the nutty, know-nothing conspiracy theorists with their anti-vaccination nonsense and now their equally deranged climate change denials.
      I have long suspected that their aim is the destruction of the site by making it ignorant and unreadable and they are succeeding in that.

    394. sarah says:

      @ Fireproofjim: don’t worry – we all have strong scrolling fingers and post a comment when it is needed. At the moment many are extremely busy preparing for Alba’s conference.

      I hope even more that SNP members are busy working on their leadership applicants/applications for the November SNP Annual Conference. At the very least there should be an annual debate between leadership applicants to ensure that the party is not in thrall to a leader cult. Currently given the focus by the leadership on anything but Independence it is very clear that there must be a new leader who is devoted to Scotland’s liberty above all else. So please, all the SNP members reading this, get moving on ensuring there are several leadership applications in for the November Conference.

    395. Hatuey says:

      Mia, the problem here is that you think you know what you’re talking about when you actually don’t.

      I believe this is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.

      You say a bunch of erroneous things but this stands out;

      “the real, trustworthy way of measuring vaccine effectiveness is no in a clinical trial, but when rolled out to the population…”

      Even if that were accepted or true, which it isn’t, we can all see the massive downturn in deaths and hospitalisations relative to infection rates, attributable to the vaccine.

      You can’t admit or explain that.

      All you have as an option is to suggest that the data is fraudulent and the Government is lying… it’s a big conspiracy that a select few geniuses like you understand.

      It’s bizarre. Truly bizarre.

    396. sarah says:

      SNP members – please see my comment at 12.33.

      Everyone – don’t let the b…..s win. Scotland, truth and justice need support.

    397. Davie Oga says:

      Hatuey

      Covid 19 death statistics are inherently flawed data. Classifying someone killed in car accident as a Covid death because they tested positive before going to the morgue is fraudulent.

    398. Hatuey says:

      Hi Breastplate.

      1) “If you were to give the vaccine to 1million healthy 10year olds and none of them developed Covid in the following 6 month window, how much could this be attributed to the vaccine and how much could this be attributed to their own immune systems?”

      The answer here, without a control group, is none.

      2) “If you gave the vaccine to 1million healthy 10 year olds and a placebo to 1million healthy 10 year olds, what difference would you expect?”

      This is a more scientific study but you would conduct trials like this in order to determine efficacy. You seem to be asking for the result before the outcome of the trial.

      Generally to determine efficacy you would give the vaccine to let’s say 10 thousand people. Then you would select 10 thousand people of the same age, sex, etc., to use as a control group and they wouldn’t be vaccinated. You wouldn’t necessarily need to give a placebo either.

      After say 3 months you would look at the numbers. Let’s say 100 people in the control group went on to catch the disease but only 10 in the vaccinated group caught it… that would mean the efficacy of the vaccine is 90%.

      This has been the accepted way of determining efficacy since at least the 1940s. Nobody has moved any goalposts.

    399. J.o.e says:

      I was thinking today about the arguments on this regarding people who see totalitarian overreach against those who (apparently) don’t.

      Ok, so lets suppose myself and the other names who are warning about the way governments are behaving around covid are indeed just paranoid. We are misled. Disproportionately suspicious. Possibly with some underlying mental or emotional problem/s.

      What would a sensible way to address this look like?

      It wouldn’t involve mass censorship.
      It wouldn’t involve outright lies.
      It wouldn’t involve brow beating and ‘othering’ us because we have concerns.
      It wouldn’t involve threats to our freedom and future.

      It would involve discussion and an airing of concerns
      It would involve taking a very public look into those concerns
      It would involve a bit of respect.

      The actual facts about covid, lockdowns and vaccines aside – the way this is being dealt with is totalitarian in and of itself.

      As for you ‘lets get back to indy’ twats – what have you accomplished for the last 10 years? What has your repeated opinions and words of wisdom got us?

      Fuck all.

      You have been behind the curve at every point and your great conversations and worldy wisdom (which appears to be nothing more than different kinds of polite appeals to a system that benefits from our current situation) and ultimately nobody is wiser, the plan of action is the same.

      In short- you have been utterly defeated. Do you see what has come in under your watch? Do you see what you have been constantly playing catch-up to? But you wish for the biggest issue to ever come into the lives of people who didnt live through the 2nd world war (and possibly bigger) to shut up about it so you shriveled naive old bastards can go back to talking the same PISH that’s got neither you nor your countrymen anywhere. Indeed your rigid thinking and inability to change perspective has actually served as a hindrance to the collective ability to reason things through and possibly get ahead of our opponents.

      I will now condense your lengthy conversations to save you the trouble: ‘Who do we vote for now?’ End.

      Honestly. Away and bile yer fuckin heeds.

    400. Hatuey says:

      Davie Oga, I’d be happy to appraise your theory suggesting the data is “inherently flawed” after you make the evidence publicly available for us.

      I agree though, “Classifying someone killed in car accident as a Covid death because they tested positive before going to the morgue is fraudulent.”

      I just don’t have evidence of that happening.

      The truth is that Covid-19 deaths are almost certainly massively under-reported. Without sufficient testing it’s inevitable that they would be under-reported. This is so obviously the case that it goes without saying. It’s tautological.

    401. sarah says:

      All – it looks as if we must rely on SNP and Alba members to work to move the politicians towards action on freeing Scotland from the Union.

      Prof Alf Baird has written a series of articles – these are widely available e.g. on Ian Lawson, Grousebeater, Barrhead boy. Read the latest one so you can see that Scotland has the power now to escape the Union. A referendum is not needed – do not be trapped into the “official” line on this.

    402. Willie says:

      On a side note I notice a piece in the Huffpost reporting that whilst Universal Credit has just taken a £20 per week cut and teachers and other public sector employees take a real wages cut with below inflation increases, our Boris has just spent £100,000 of public money for a couple of paintings for Downing Street.

      And the reason – well it’s to celebrate the last century of the creation of Northern Ireland. What a celebration. Brings into clear view the absolutely fuck you message from bastards like Johnson and his ilk. They’d dig the dead up and put the remains on display would these boys.

      But maybe his time will come. He needs to be lucky all the time as someone somewhere ant sometime in the past declared.

    403. Mia says:

      “the problem here is that you think you know what you’re talking about when you actually don’t”

      That surely applies to you darling. I know exactly what I am talking about.

      “we can all see the massive downturn in deaths and hospitalisations relative to infection rates, attributable to the vaccine”

      ha, ha, ha!! Sure, as compared to what?
      The massive peak in January after the buffoon opened the floodgates for Christmas?

      That is not comparative and you know it. What I propose is comparative in real time, with exact same conditions for the non vaccinated and the vaccinated.

      If you are so convinced of the effectiveness of this vaccine, then what is your problem with looking at the percentages of vaccinated people among the positives? Too many for comfort, perhaps?

    404. Hatuey says:

      Joe, I probably agree with about 75% of what you just typed, and if you replaced the word totalitarian with a word that conveyed the stupidity and corruption of politicians, who have undoubtedly blundered and lied their way through this crisis in the UK and Scotland, I’d agree with a lot more.

      I’m puzzled that you don’t do that.

      This Covid stuff could be discussed in a way that helped weaken Sturgeon and bring about much needed change. But the way you and others on here frame it is just making it very easy for her to dismiss you as an irrelevance.

      Even if I believed what you and the anti-vaxxers were saying on this, I wouldn’t say it. For reasons of political expediency, I wouldn’t say it.

    405. sarah says:

      There is a great deal of energy showing itself here btl on the Wings. My plea is that it be directed in direct action beyond this site e.g. help SNP members shift the leadership by applying to be leader in November Conference, or supporting someone else to do it. Why? Because the literally only person who has power to liberate Scotland is the FM and the leader of the SNP.

    406. Hatuey says:

      “If you are so convinced of the effectiveness of this vaccine, then what is your problem with looking at the percentages of vaccinated people among the positives?”

      I’ve explained my problem 200 times.

      Efficacy isn’t measured simply in terms of whether someone tests positive or not (sterilising immunity). You could use that as a measure if you wanted to, but most vaccines are measured in terms of how much protection they give in allowing you to fight the disease and avoid negative outcomes (disease immunity).

      I truly believe a child would understand this.

    407. sarah says:

      I am puzzled why people aren’t focused on working for independence.

    408. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      9 August, 2021 at 1:07 pm
      I was thinking today about the arguments on this regarding people who see totalitarian overreach against those who (apparently) don’t.

      Ok, so lets suppose myself and the other names who are warning about the way governments are behaving around covid are indeed just paranoid. We are misled. Disproportionately suspicious. Possibly with some underlying mental or emotional problem/s.

      What would a sensible way to address this look like?

      Reply

      My suggestion would be that you set up a blog specifically to discuss this matter.

      Give the blog an appropriate name and make it clear what the blog is about.

      Does that not sound like sensible way to address this?

    409. Ruby says:

      sarah says:
      9 August, 2021 at 1:31 pm
      I am puzzled why people aren’t focused on working for independence.

      Reply

      Could it be because at the moment people don’t know what to do?

    410. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Hatuey

      I salute your stamina, but fear with “TL/DR” Mia you’re engaged in the rhetorical equivalent of playing chess with a pigeon. The crypto-Trumpian anti-vaxx, climate denying, nativist claque are doing their best to render the BTL comments unreadable: whether it’s because they’re bots and yoon plants (which I don’t really buy) or true believers in their flat eartherism I don’t know. In true end the result is the same.

      Perhaps as Sarah said above others are busy doing other things. Time will tell I guess? In the meantime, keep fighting the fight! ?

    411. Republicofscotland says:

      The Scottish government has said it will ringfence £65 million pounds a year to allow councils to employ staff on permanent contracts, hmm… the we’ll need to watch this one closely the Scottish government has form on ringfencing funds.

      Meanwhile Neil Oliver who called Scottish independence a cancer, and who isn’t a historian but pretends to be one, has said he won’t allow his children to be vaccinated. Oliver made the statement in his slot on the far right news channel GB news.

    412. Robert Graham says:

      Filmproof

      Fingers in the ears and eyes shut don’t listen to any questions about something that’s been around for less then a year and incidentally is still being administered under emergency legislation.

      So no questions are allowed just do as you are told and turn your anger on the ones who refuse to follow the same instructions it’s their fault you might get infected these people are walking around killing everyone that they come into contact with .

      A spoof petition was launched in the US it was to arrest everyone who refused to give in to taking this Chemical and one after the other stupid people were actually signing it despite the person conducting the exercise saying to them the drug companies are immune from any harm people might suffer ,

      And yes people still signed up for their fellow citizens to be incarcerated and every human right removed from them unless they accepted this Chemical.

      NEXT WILL BE FORCED INOCULATION ( because that’s on the horizon )

      Would that then make you happy ? make you feel safe you and people like you have fallen for this fkn hysterical response and will accept any suffering inflicted on others to make you feel safe Aye fk them if they don’t do as I want , why waste time just shoot the fkrs that would make you happy then ? eh yeah just kill the fkrs because they are a threat to me . FFS Wakey fkn Wakey .

    413. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,

      “This is a more scientific study but you would conduct trials like this in order to determine efficacy. You seem to be asking for the result before the outcome of the trial”

      We already have the answer to how likely each demographic will react to the virus.

      I asked both questions because they are connected, they were in no way meant to be seen as trick questions.

      I asked you because you’ve already stated that children shouldn’t be vaccinated as a matter of course.

      Presumably you believe that children shouldn’t be vaccinated because there is no need for them to be vaccinated, am I wrong in my understanding of your stance?

      If this is correct, it follows that if children shouldn’t be vaccinated because there is no need for them to be vaccinated then others who don’t need to be vaccinated shouldn’t be vaccinated either.

      Of course, as we go through the demographics towards the elderly then there is an argument that they need to be vaccinated considering the threat the virus poses for them.

      Now back to efficacy,
      a vaccine that is given to an elderly demographic will have less efficacy than a vaccine that is given to a demographic that will have little or no threat from Covid. This will raise, artificially the efficacy of the vaccine statistically as it will be considered a successful vaccination (even though we have agreed it wasn’t needed).

      If you agree that people should be allowed to weigh the risks of the pros and cons, they should be given accurate information?

    414. J.o.e says:

      The biggest issue facing Scottish people now is the governments treatment of covid.

      But then i’m an actual nationalist and not just an anti British separatist playing around with political theories.

      If you are a mere separatist and Scots aren’t even an actual recognizable people in their own right then I suppose the next limp wristed statement from Alex Salmond or the next cutesy ‘wee lassie next door’ appeal by Sturgeon might matter more.

    415. The male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said,

      “Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma”

      basically,

      if you believe that you can`t change your sex, `don`t come to Edinburgh Rape Crisis for help.`

    416. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      9 August, 2021 at 1:41 pm
      Oliver made the statement in his slot on the far right news channel GB news.

      Reply

      I saw that!

      The question I would like to ask Oliver is what he would do in the event of his teenagers deciding they were trans.

    417. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      Thanks for your post.

      A couple of things I would question but I will only look at one.

      Get back to me in 5 years or so when the long-term effects of the vaccines (note plural) have had a chance to appear. Or not, hopefully the latter.

      Until then, ease up on telling us all about how safe they are. You don’t know that to be true. You can’t know that to be true.

      Long-term effects of things are quite awkward that way – they take a long time to make themselves evident. Annoying b******s, but what can you do?

      Bear in mind that if we all survive the next 5 years, we will all have been vaccinated probably 10 or more times, with different formulae, probably against new variants that have yet to materialise.

      Let’s hope your confidence is justified, eh?

    418. Republicofscotland says:

      So Westminster is imposing fresh economic sanctions on Belarus hopefully to stir Belarussians into revolting which might lead to the overthrowing of President Lukashenko, just why is the EU, Canada the USA and the UK trying to have Lukashenko deposed.

      I for one don’t believe that he’s as much of an autocrat as the Western media make him out to be, no I think the real reason Belarus is in the sights of the West, is Belarus and its president are aligned with Putin and Russia.

      Installing a Western friendly puppet president would allow Nato to place nukes close its border with Russia, as is the plan in another of Belarus’s neighbours the Ukraine.

    419. Ruby says:

      Question for
      Hatuey & Andy Ellis

      If J.O.E & those wishing to discuss the covid vaccine 24/7 set up a blog specifically about this subject. (Which I think would be the sensible thing for them to do) would you post on that blog?

      Question for Mia:

      Would you?

    420. James Che. says:

      Sarah.
      For the best part of 2020 and 2021 I have been beating a rhythmic drum with regard to Scottish people’s acknowledged sovereignty.

      The snp nor alba have emphasised our unique position here in Scotland,
      Everything in the present snp’s mind Is about gaining sovereignty for the Scottish Parliament.
      Rather than maintaining that for the Scots, The utter frustration I feel with the power grab from us the people into their own hands of Parliament is a no go for me, ( I have had many a raised voice with them about our sovereignty being diverted into, “their” Scottish Parliament) hands.

      And as much as I like AS and leafleted for him in this last election, and would do so again, only if the correct cards were on the table this next time.
      I afterwards thought how limiting it is for Scots to vote on the British invented system for the devolved parliament.
      I leafleted until my feet were sore, I missed meals to leaflet for Alba, and missed communications my family as I out and about most of the day, and did, as Alex asked and voted as he suggested to include the SNP.
      That was an political error. Alba should have stood in their own right, enough of the independence movement were behind Alex for it to have worked,
      No one really wanted to vote snp
      It has to be that the people lead by threat of choosing a totally new government in Scotland under the claim of right, and the right of people to self determination.

      If we the Scottish people actually took the first steps every politician in Scotland would display instant panic.
      They would be falling over themselves to try retain their employment. They would try falling in favour and in step with the Scottish sovereign people,

      At this particular time in politics every politician across Britain is playing politics for themselves.
      We need to seriously shake that tree.

      When a political party or parties feel their security is being taken away by the legal right of people, not government. they will listen.

    421. Ron Maclean says:

      Another interesting post – ‘Alex Salmond Sympathy Society’ – from Rob Brown on jaggy.blog

    422. Republicofscotland says:

      On my 2.01pm comment on Belarus, just to expose the sheer extent of British hypocrisy.

      The British Foreign secretary, Dominic Raab said of the Belarussian president Lukashenko.

      “The Lukashenko regime continues to crush democracy and human rights in Belarus.”

      Yet the British government of which Raab serves, supports some of the worst dictatorships on the planet, such as, Bahrain the UAE, Qatar, Oman and Saudi Arabia. These half-a dozen countries have virtually no human right, no democracy and certainly no media freedom

    423. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 1.51 pm

      You’re entitled to take a sceptical position. Perhaps you will be proven right. It certainly possible that one or more of the current or future vaccines will be shown to have had undesirable side effects. Right now however we have to go on the information we have in front of us and as individuals make our choices. In the end it doesn’t matter whether it’s Covid jabs, other vaccines or being asked to weigh up the cost/benefit analysis or potential risk of medical procedures.

      The professionals will give you the best advice they have based on the evidence and testing, then you make your choice. Most people, most of the time, will be persuaded by the orthodox, mainstream medical establishments advice. It’s not infallible and no sane practitioner will give you 100% guarantees that there will never be any adverse effect under any circumstances.

      I certainly wish you and others would stop putting words in people’s mouths. It does what passes for your case no favours. I and others have gone out of our way to say there are no guarantees of zero negative impacts and stressed that it is in effect a numbers game. The generally available evidence is that the risks of being vaccinated are much less than the health risks of not being vaccinated, getting Covid and being badly impacted by it.

      In there end nothing is going to convince sued in the wool sceptics. Time might prove you right, or partially right, and the scientific orthodoxy and majority who got vaccinated to be wrong, but the odds are not on your side. There are still people insisting the MMR vaccine is unsafe and linked to autism. It’s a faith based position, not a rational one.

    424. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Ruby 2.01 pm

      Hell no.

    425. Hatuey says:

      @ Ruby

      No.

      I read Gary’s comment earlier and it reinforced my belief that offering a counter view to the anti-vaxxers on here is important.

      It looks like Gary has been driven away by them. In his parting comment, he talked about people close to him who had died and suffered badly with covid-19.

      My simple policy on it is this; as long as people come on here spreading anti-vax madness, I feel I have a responsibility to counter it.

      If you look at the sequencing of my comments over the last year, that’s the order. I’d happily not discuss anything or something else.

    426. Pixywine says:

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/GVxxXFy5ivKx/
      A view from a health are professional.

    427. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon will not like this poll, and she personally will just ignore it as she does with the AUOB, but her acolytes will shout about it from the rooftops, to garner more support.

      “Scottish independence: New poll shows most Scots want vote this term”

      https://archive.is/2bRvf#selection-1279.0-1279.68

    428. stuart mctavish says:

      Ruby @1:48pm

      Huge empathy for Neil Oliver (& Mist) on this.

      For better perspective on both points it might be worth imagining a world where private right and family values are paramount then exploring the question as to what might constitute a more serious form of attempted statutory rape :

      Government officials hiding behind the backs of husbands to squeeze the knees of junior colleagues

      or

      Government officials hiding behind Gillick competence to override parental consent – despite the child having been coerced into participation through denial of education, sport, travel, social life etc. and the strong probability that consent (were it given) was not necessarily given of sound mind and judgement whilst in full possession of the facts (due in part to the prevalence of extremist propaganda atop all the other distortions)

    429. Pixywine says:

      Many BAME people are choosing not to have the “vaccine”. Does that mean they’ll be segregated from the vaxxed herd? Asking on behalf of Malcolm X.

    430. sarah says:

      @ Ruby: there are things that people can do for independence right now – reading some sites such as Grousebeater, Ian Lawson and Barrhead boy will give the information needed to talk to others about, and write to local papers and The National about to combat the “can’t do anything because covid/wildcat/not allowed etc etc etc” ad nauseam! Reading those sites teaches us that a referendum is not only unnecessary but actually dangerous.

      Right now SNP members can be preparing their own or others’ leadership applications and garnering the 100 supporters from 20 branches needed, ready for the November Annual Conference. Because it is only the SNP leader who decides party political direction and as FM is the only person who can put action in hand to withdraw from the Union.

    431. Pixywine says:

      Hatuey. No one chased Gary45 away from here. He’s an adult–I think–old enough to make his own decisions. Speaking of which I’m surprised by how many Scots have allowed the MSM to “nudge” their opinions.

    432. sarah says:

      O/T: Craig Murray Justice campaign twitter update: Craig is doing OK, “being treated very respectfully by staff and fellow inmates. He is keeping his spirits up spends his [time] writing – a lot!”

    433. Hatuey says:

      Breastplate, I didn’t respond as if they were trick questions.

      You seem to misunderstand though.

      You seem to be saying, correct me if I am wrong, that because children have more robust natural immune systems, and don’t suffer as much when they contract the virus, that they somehow skew the efficacy measure in a positive direction. That is, they give the impression that the vaccine is more effective than it actually is.

      That isn’t the case.

      This is why it’s important/imperative to make sure the control group accurately matches the demographics of the test group. I touched on this before.

      You couldn’t justify testing the vaccine on kids on one hand and using a bunch of pensioners in the control group on the other.

      As it stands, and I forget the numbers, it’s hard to justify vaccinating kids. There’s a really, really slight advantage in the data but not enough to warrant doing so.

      In short, I don’t think you can force kids to have a vaccine that will offer them very little additional protection, subject them to unnecessary risks in terms of side effects, so that you can improve the chances of someone else when the risk to the someone else are also statistically very low thanks to the vaccine.

      All of that could very quickly change though.

    434. Mia says:

      “I’ve explained my problem 200 times”
      No, you have not. You have just attempted to peddle some quasi-scientific sounding bullshit hoping everybody would lap it up.

      “I truly believe a child would understand this”
      A child, sure. Because when you start to peddle this to adults who immediately question the credibility of your “disease immunity” bullshit, and realise that the only possible way you can prove the effectiveness of a vaccine is in real time when vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals are subjected to roughly the same conditions and controls, then you run into a wall.

      You want me to believe the vaccine is effective? Then show me what percentage of positive cases that have had at least one dosis of the jag, what percentage of hospitalised cases have had at least one jag, what percentage of deceased with COVID had had at least one jag and the ages or rough dates when those people had their jags.

      No percentages? no more time for your disease immunity bullshit.

      For the record, I am not an anti-vaxxer. I have had my two jags and each time I was seriously fearing the risks of a blood clot, particularly after having strong secondary effects with the first dose.

      But I also knew the chances of this vaccine being effective were little, because the vaccine was being raised against a coronavirus, which are notorious for ineffectiveness of vaccines.

      I knew the chances were low and I knew my risks, but I chose to take those chances anyway because, for better or worse, at that point I still trusted Scotland’s government would make the most of the vaccine to protect the population. I trusted they would not to use it as a tool to control the population or to offer a generous meal ticket to pharmaceutical companies and greedy tory donors expecting to make killing profits out of COVID and the population’s fear of dying. I trusted they would use it in the best possible way to eradicate this virus and protect the population.

      I may have chosen to take my chances with the vaccine, but what I am not prepared to do is swallowing is any bullshit propaganda trying to hide the fact this vaccine is weak and ineffective in the long run unless you are continuously putting the population at risk by making them get jags every 6 months or so, so you can keep the darn borders, responsible for the entry of every single strain and variant of the SARS-COV2 virus in Scotland in the first place, wide open.

      It is my opinion that a government must measure on balance the risks to the citizens and costs of jagging the population every 6 months versus the obvious alternative that has been staring at them in the face since February 2020. That alternative is to lock the borders, let the vaccine together with natural immunity do their job for the little time it might work, eradicate whatever strains/variants of the virus you still have running through the population and then simply manage the virus by watching those borders like a hawk stopping any more virus coming in.

      But in the same way she has an evident allergy to indyref and independence, and undoubtedly a strong taste for squandering mandates, Sturgeon seems to have an allergy to lock the borders to protect the population too and, the jury is out there on this, but it may be the case that in her avidity to keep those borders open to maintain the illusion of UK unity, she might have also developed a strong taste for squandering the limited clinical worth of the jags. We will see about this. The next 12 months will tell us.

      In the meantime, here is another question for you:

      how many citizens and how many times per citizen can be put at risk, before it is considered too many, for the sake of maintaining the illusion of UK unity and keeping the borders wide open allowing new variants to come in?

    435. Pixywine says:

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/AGWXm6RgQ36X/
      I know that most recipients of the “vaccine” appear unaffected by side effects there are those who do suffer side effects. A story from the other side.

    436. Hatuey says:

      To be fair, Pixy, in Gary’s case, I think he was “nudged” more by seeing people die and suffer rather than the MSM. Maybe a bit of both.

      But you’re right in saying he’s an adult and should be able to make his own decisions, etc.

      Please don’t ever worry about upsetting me. I find you, the links and arguments you guys provide, nothing but entertaining.

      It’s been a walk in the park for me…

    437. Pixywine says:

      Mia. I disagree with very minor points in your 3:05 post but it’s still a belter.

    438. sarah says:

      A reminder of Craig Murray’s contact details so you can write to him and give moral support during his dreadful ordeal.

      To be imprisoned on a charge brought by the law officers of Scotland for a non-existent contempt must be almost unbearable. Surely time would be better spent by some people btl here on doing something to help the burden imposed on Mr Murray?

      157095 C J Murray,
      G3/34
      HM Prison Edinburgh
      33 Stenhouse Road,
      Edinburgh EH11 3LN

    439. Hatuey says:

      My “discussion” with Mia was about the vaccine and its efficacy. Now, instead of admitting defeat on that, she wants to open up 48 new fronts.

      The vaccines were designed to address the original strain of the virus. Efficacy there in terms of preventing infection was extremely high, around 95% in some cases.

      With new strains the vaccines have naturally been weakened. Natural immunity to new strains has also weakened so that people in places like Manaus who caught the original strain got hammered again when new strains appeared.

      These things are all well documented and understood.

      But, I repeat, the vaccines are still highly effective at preventing serious illness and death. And that’s why we aren’t in lockdown right now and why thousands of people are alive that would otherwise be dead.

      Science is ultimately about objective reality and objective reality is important. Everything else is just feelings.

    440. Mia says:

      “The vaccines were designed to address the original strain of the virus. Efficacy there in terms of preventing infection was extremely high, around 95% in some cases”

      Another fantastic example of quasi-scientific sounding bullshit. None of the vaccines was “designed to address the original strain”. They used one form or other of the original strain to address every other potential strain of the virus. They were designed to stop transmission from SARS-COV2. Scientists working with this kind of virus know how quickly it mutates. The idea that the scientists designing the vaccines would be thinking the same strain would remain static for months to no end is ridiculous.

      the “original strain of the virus” was the Chinese one. When was that strain eradicated out of the UK? That must have been even before the summer 2020.

      When was the vaccine introduced in the UK?

      How can you even claim effectiveness at preventing infection from this strain was high if when the vaccine was rolled out to the population the strain was not even there anymore?

      Stop digging, Hatuey.

    441. Captain Yossarian says:

      I understand that the flu vaccine changes each year according to the predicted strain of the virus. In the same way, the COVID vaccine will change to keep pace with the predicted strain of the virus. That’s all that’s happening; nothing new. Science will keep ahead of the virus strains and hence keep us all relatively safe.

    442. sarah says:

      Independence for Scotland. Independence for Scotland. Independence for Scotland.

      Does anyone want to talk about how to get independence for Scotland?

      Or what to do to support victims of our government?

      How about donating to the victims fundraisers:
      – Craig Murray – see his blog for bank details
      – Mark Hirst – see his blog for details
      – Manny Singh – see gofundme.com/help manny singh win his legal battles

    443. JimuckMac says:

      Meg @11.41. It wasn’t just Westminster government who downgraded Covid 19 on the 19th March 2020, it was all four governments of the U.K. And because of this downgrading, all Covid legislation went with it, including any emergency legislation.

      All those ‘laws’ Sturgeon had been using and is still relying upon to destroy our lives, have never been there since the downgrading, and are not there now.

      And you are correct, the Scottish Government continue to vote to extend those ‘laws’ even though they don’t exist.

      This crime is massive.

    444. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      9 August, 2021 at 3:43 pm

      My “discussion” with Mia was about the vaccine and its efficacy. Now, instead of admitting defeat on that, she wants to open up 48 new fronts.

      The vaccines were designed to address the original strain of the virus. Efficacy there in terms of preventing infection was extremely high, around 95% in some cases.

      With new strains the vaccines have naturally been weakened.

      Science is ultimately about objective reality and objective reality is important. Everything else is just feelings.

      —-
      1.If the new strains are related to the first there’s no reason for the vaccines to be less efficient. They either form a sequence or they are “NEW VIRUSES”.

      If efficacy is shown to be trending within the nth percentile (modelled retrospectively, in situ and forwards), ‘the unvaccinated’ remain a crucial comparative dataset.

      2. Science is objective, but the subject studied is the object. The outcome might not produce a result that cures baldness, but it might be useful in some other field.

      There’s no finality when it comes to research, only stages.

      Efficacy and efficiency mean the same thing, but produce different results, depending on the data presented.

      3. Implied withdrawal of consent is the starting point for all in Scotland. It’s a legal right that does not need claimed and no punishment can be applied nor implied automatically, for asserting that right.

      ie So-called Covid passports will be lawful in Scotland, in the form of an affirmation by consent, but the legal fees would ruin any business that was challenged on refusal of service grounds for anyone who hadn’t consented to engage in the scheme.

      People of Scotland should remain calm, as they usually do in person. (Riotous behaviour is rare and rarely affects large swathes of society)

      Btl comments everywhere are subject to obfuscation and multi-agendas. Knowing the facts helps when posting and reading the words of others.

      Sovereignty of the people is bandied about as some magic wand, yet examples of automatic effect are rarely given. The stock “You have the right to…” is correct, but suggest that the person is too lazy to do it themselves or can’t because they aren’t resident in Scotland.

      Things that are coming to France or Bolivia or Andy Ellis aren’t coming to you in Scotland, unless you consent personally.

      Philosophical debates about morality won’t alter Scots Law with regard to consent.

      You cannot remove my right to withhold consent.

    445. JimuckMac says:

      Captain. The Covid 19 injection is not a vaccine.

    446. Hatuey says:

      Mia, pretending to be angry and adamant won’t improve your incoherent position. I’ve demonstrated that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

      I don’t know why that should offend you. It’s fine to not know about things when you haven’t been trained or educated in them.

      Since I’m happy to admit that I don’t know much about feelings and psychology, it’s probably best that I withdraw and leave you discuss those things with others.

      Get back to me if anything remotely scientific sneaks into your mind.

    447. wee monkey says:

      22 days to September.
      And we all know what’s coming.
      End of furlough and mass unemployment on a scale never seen before.
      Of course it won’t be visible as the msn won’t cover how the DWP will frig the figures by denying people the ability to sign on.
      But of course, flapping your gums about a free, life saving vaccination is FAR more important.

      FUDS.

    448. Fireproofjim says:

      Sarah,
      Thank god there is someone using Wings for its intended purpose. That is -promoting independence.
      Since noon you are the only voice of sanity in a sea of self-important promoters of the weirder side of the internet on how vaccines are a Government conspiracy to kill us all.
      This site has been ruined by them. Why don’t they set up your own crackpot site and argue your nonsense there? Probably far too difficult for them. Just a bunch of parasites on a once great site.

    449. cirsium says:

      @Mia, 11.07
      The vaccination process is simply presenting your immune system with an antigen with the hope it will form memory cells that will respond quickly upon infection with the real thing.

      Yes, that is the traditional vaccine process. It is not a hope, it is knowledge based on years of research. The current gene therapy injections do not function like this. Dr Robert Malone, the inventor of the technology, explains the different process and what the current problems are Q: Why do you call the adenovirus-based (J&J) and mRNA-based vaccines gene therapy-based vaccines?
      https://www.rwmalonemd.com/news/8hg3jglpy4m7eebyc37lxczc3nny8l

    450. Ruby says:

      Fireproofjim says:

      This site has been ruined by them

      Reply

      That seems to be their aim.

      What else could they be trying to achieve?

    451. James Che. says:

      Fireproof Jim.
      Sarah
      Ahem, I also have been beating the drum on this sight for quite a while now, perhaps from a different view point than let’s do it through the corrupt snp. And the dodgy permitted Scottish England Westminster Scottish Parliament that was set up to stymie independence for Scotland.
      And perhaps some do not want to hear how it can be done in an alternative route.

      As we spoke to AS during the election and prior, AS himself has spoken about this, there is more than one way to achieve independence if the normal routes are blocked.

    452. JimuckMac says:

      Bring down the Covid squad within Scotland and its government and we secure our Scottish independence within weeks.

      As you can see on here, the brigade are going into full panic mode trying to divert us away from our most important battle.

    453. Hugh Jarse says:

      “Science is ultimately about objective reality and objective reality is important. Everything else is just feelings.”

      The objective reality of modern science, is that securing future funding is all.

      Scientific ideal’s are just that.
      Ideal’s.
      Method isn’t the problem. Money is.

    454. Andy Ellis says:

      @ James Che 5.20 pm

      I’m genuinely interested in how you see this other route working, and what the timescale would be?

      Don’t you have your work cut out persuading the majority that Holyrood is a “dodgy permitted” parliament? I’m pretty sure you can convince people there are more routes to indy than just a referendum, but it’s still quite a task, given that’s the precedent…?

      I’m all for plebiscitary elections myself, but it’ll only work if it can be made the obvious choice when a referendum is frustrated. At present we’re still stuck with a ruling party that is totally wedded to the referendum route.

      Isn’t the first task to change that?

    455. twathater says:

      Sarah thanks for the update regarding Craig and his situation , a situation brought about by vile and dangerous participants who hopefully in the fullness of time will be exposed and reviled for their despotic behaviours which has resulted in true patriots of Scotland suffering

      You encourage SNP members to challenge sturgeon for the leadership of the party , I think that would be a very good cause celeb for Rob Brown of jaggy thistle to pursue , and with the added assistance of his friends in the media which has been noted there may be a possibility that his challenge aligned with their desperation (ha,ha) to expose sturgeon’s inability to govern or call a referendum may contribute to Rob being elected as the new FM. There would then be no requirement to oppose Alex Salmond or make risible snarky comments about the ALEXBA party, and just think he could achieve the greatness he seeks

    456. Andy Ellis says:

      @JimuckMac 5.34 pm

      If covid had never happened we’d be no closer to independence than we are now.

      We’re not getting a referendum anytime soon, so that only leaves plebiscitary elections (which requires an election) or some other extra parliamentary method. How would that work in practice…?

    457. Hatuey says:

      Scott @ 4.37, that’s all very impressive and dramatic but can you explain why you quoted me at the start?

    458. Mia says:

      @ cirsium.

      Sorry but I disagree. the mRNA vaccines are not “gene therapy” at all. They are based in the exact same principle as the traditional ones: presenting an antigen to your immune system to train it into recognise it and acting against it quickly when you are infected with the natural carrier of the antigen.

      The only difference is what they inject you with and what presents the antigen to your immune system. In the Astra Zeneca you get injected with the antigen itself and a heck of a lot of adjuvant in the hope your immune system is attracted to the point of injection and “sees” the antigen. By antigen I mean the spiky glycoprotein that gives the virus its appearance.

      In the mRNA vaccine, you are injected with mRNA of the antigen and some carrier that will transfer that mRNA into some of your own Antigen Presenting Cells. Your APC machinery will “read” that mRNA in their ribosomes and produce a protein (presumably the glycoproteins that form the spikes of the virus) that will be expressed in the membrane of your cells towards the exterior. That protein so expressed becomes the antigen.

      Needless to say that mRNA has a limited life. Your cells will not be expressing the antigen forever.

      Same principle, which is presenting the antigen to your immune system, but different approach.

    459. JimuckMac says:

      Bring down the Covid narrative, it’s Queen and her officers and we have a clear run to our independence.

    460. Mia says:

      “In the same way, the COVID vaccine will change to keep pace with the predicted strain of the virus”

      How can they when the strains of the coronavirus have such little shelf life?

      In February 2020 it was the chinese variant that was around. Then the chinese variant vanished from the UK and suddenly it became the Italian variant. Then the italian variant vanished and voila, the spanish variant emerged. Then the spanish variant vanished as well and along came the Brazilian variant. Suddenly, the Brazilian one was a non entity as well and the bogeyman that everybody feared was the Kent variant. AFter a huge peak and lots of deaths, the Kent variant came and went and along came the delta variant. All those variants killing so many people and justifying lockdown after lockdown for 18 months but not justifying the locking of the borders.

      Where did the kent variant go? The South AFrican? The Brazilian? The Spanish one? The Italian one? The Chinese one?

      Please tell me how on earth are the vaccines going to keep up with this virus if its variants disappear faster than Sturgeon’s pro independence and democratic credentials?

      Here:

      https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disappearing-so-fast-oxford-vaccine-has-only-50-chance-of-working-11993739

      https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-oxford-scientists-predict-fifty-per-cent-vaccine-trial-success-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

      Why were the borders kept open? Was that really for economic reasons? Was that for political reasons to maintain the illusion of Scotland being governable as part of a decaying UK and to blame some of the economic damage caused by brexit on to the virus? Was it to feed the virus going through the population with new variants to keep it alive and justifying more lockdowns and draconian policies?

      The three options simultaneously, perhaps?

      I think the jury is out on that one.

    461. Mia says:

      “If covid had never happened we’d be no closer to independence than we are now”

      I disagree with that, Andy. It is my opinion that if COVID had not existed Sturgeon would have been already ousted. Her excuse to not attend Mr Salmond’s criminal court case was COVID. In fact, every single excuse this woman has been using for the last 18 months to not do something or to force something nasty on us (non jury trials?) is COVID. I doubt the SNP would have got the number of votes in May they did if COVID was not around. Demonstrations would have continued at pace and yes supporters would not have stood by this political fraud’s ridiculous delay in progressing Scotland’s autonomy.

    462. Robert Graham says:

      A large crowd of Demonstrators attempt to enter BBC studios in London .

      BBC News

      Not a fkn word

      It never happened just the same as the demonstrations never happened outside Pacific Heights

      If it’s not on the BBC it’s just a figment of some nutters imagination you get what we want you to get so don’t ask stupid fkn questions plebs

      Clips of storm troopers dressed as police all over the world assaulting anyone who doesn’t agree with their Governments response to the Plague. Protect and Serve Aye protect and serve WHO because it’s certainly not ordinary people it’s Governments at War with their own people

      Wakey Wakey your next

    463. Pixywine says:

      https://windowsontheworld.net/live-shows/
      The underlying explanation for our current troubles.

    464. Pixywine says:

      Fireproof. Blow it oot yir erse monkey nuts.

    465. Ron Maclean says:

      @Pixywine 7:22pm – ‘Fireproof. Blow it oot yir erse monkey nuts.’

      @Pixywine – 28 July, 2021 6:35pm – ‘Independence seems such a parochial concern these days’

      Surely there’s a ‘cosmopolitan’ site somewhere where ‘worthwhile’ comments of world shattering importance like yours are given the attention and respect they deserve?

    466. Republicofscotland says:

      The big oil and gas companies have said that to offset their carbon production that their product emits, that they will negate the green house gases that they produce by planting trees.

      However the charity Oxfam created a report using data from the oil and gas industries as to how many trees would be required to offset the cfc’s from their product, and unsurprisingly the amount of trees required is more than there is land mass on the earth, this includes planting trees on farming lands as well.

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/false-solutions-achieve-net-zero-carbon-offsetting-would-use-up-all-global-farmland/5752540

      The global captains of industry should be leading us away from fossil fuels, but instead they are lying and obfuscating to continue to use it, and all to keep making a profit.

    467. robbo says:

      Did anyone see Panorama there on the bad BBC ?

      Can’t wait for David Cameron’s trial as it should be along soon with that weird fecker from Greensill Capital ?I won’t hold my breath.

      Oh and maybe we’ll get Nicola Sturgeon in the dock aswell as thon Sanjeev Gupta in right in the thick of this too with his steel plants empire fraud. She never did the right due diligence either before giving that crook Gupta our money.

    468. Saffron Robe says:

      I came across a couple of quotes today regarding the climate crisis which I thought were both interesting and apposite:

      “This is the year when rhetoric and pledges on climate must be turned into action plans. Delay is not an option – there is a limited time left to avert the worst impacts of climate change and governments must seize it. Yet the UK government’s strategy is to cross its fingers and wait in the hope that something will turn up which will get us off the disastrous path we are now on. It sets plenty of targets, but they are rarely followed up with policies for reaching those targets, let alone the necessary investment to decarbonise and transform our economy.”

      Caroline Lucas

      “For starters, Nicola Sturgeon must loudly oppose the proposed Cambo oil field and stop hiding behind Boris Johnson, who treats climate emergency and the need for a just transition for workers and communities like a big joke. If we start meeting our own climate targets in Scotland, we’ll be in a better position to demand quicker progress from other governments.”

      Monica Lennon

      I would suggest, however, or rather I am certain, that the only way to transition to a green economy and meet climate targets is through independence.

      Davie Oga says:

      “Covid-19 death statistics are inherently flawed data. Classifying someone killed in a car accident as a Covid death because they tested positive before going to the morgue is fraudulent.”

      You are entirely correct Davie, although I wouldn’t necessarily say fraudulent but certainly misleading and inaccurate. All deaths in Scotland which occur within 28 days of a first positive test, regardless of the actual cause of death, are reported as Covid-19 deaths.

      (www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-data-definitions-and-sources/)

      Republicofscotland says:

      “The global captains of industry should be leading us away from fossil fuels, but instead they are lying and obfuscating to continue to use it, and all to keep making a profit.”

      Excellent comment Republic of Scotland.

    469. Scott says:

      Opening the new oil field doesn’t guarantee more CO2 emissions.

      Those hiding behind climate change in opposition to Scotland’s oil being brought onshore are indeed being disingenuous.

      Using semantics to shout against “Scotland’s oil” is just that.

      It is Scotland’s oil.

      Earth itself is made from fossils. Humans are made from bits of fossils. Wee beasties too.

    470. sarah says:

      @ Fireproofjim, James Che, Ruby, Twathater: it is up to us to strive daily to get the truth about routes to independence disseminated.

      Given the number of readers on this site it is important to inform people here of the sources of information available and a short version explaining the action that can be taken right now by independence MPs and MSPs.

      What ordinary SNP members can be doing is deciding to make a stand themselves by preparing to apply for the leadership in November or arranging with others for one or more candidates to stand. The current leader and supporters are not going to do anything to rescue Scotland and restore our status as a country so they must be replaced.

      Everyone else could at least tell their MP/MSP what they should be doing i.e. concentrating on independence, and in fact withdrawing from Westminster and announcing the Union is over. International law is on Scotland’s side in this. See Prof Baird’s articles on Grouse Beater, Ian Lawson, Barrhead Boy this weekend.

    471. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Those of you interested in the subject of “climate change” may find the following links of interest.

      https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/climate-ocean/

      Dan may find this link reinforces his philosophy, particularly “PREPPER FIT”:-

      http://www.globalchange.org/

      This next site has been on the go for years.

      https://iceagenow.info/

      One last one, before I reach the limit…

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091130112421.htm

    472. Hatuey says:

      It’s too late to fix the world and world leaders aren’t serious about trying. More money is going into managing the crises that climate change is causing (and will cause) than is going towards preventing climate change itself. That probably makes sense.

      We can see that there’s a process underway. Fires and floods are just the more obvious signs; we can guess that equally powerful forces are at work in the world of chemicals and biology. For example, nobody really knows what will be released into the atmosphere when the ice-caps melt.

      It looks like the correction process has started. It’s about time we started preparing properly for what seems inevitable.

      70,000 years ago the volcano Toba erupted and it resulted in 6 years of darkness; mankind was reduced to about a thousand breeding pairs.

      Of course, then, we don’t want to leave it to chance and we can only save so many. We need to select on the basis of what is best for the long term interests of the species as a whole; that means men who are both brave and smart, and women that are optimised for reproduction. A ratio of 2 or 3 women to every man probably makes sense.

      Out of all the people that comment on here — no offence intended — I think there’s only maybe 2 or 3 of us that are potential candidates for the brave new world ahead. Those with technical and scientific skills are obviously going to have an advantage when it comes to selection.

      On the basis of the above, I’d propose we look to guarantee the existence of maybe 10 thousand people at most, with half based here on earth (in the safest places we can find and develop) and the other half sustained on some sort of space resort.

    473. sarah says:

      Other fundraisers for those working for Scotland’s restoration as a nation state:

      Now Scotland – see website. This group is trying to co-ordinate the different strands within the Yes movement and promotes direct action. Demonstrations at Bute House and Holyrood are planned, I believe.

    474. Fireproofjim says:

      Pixiewine
      Not only a crazed obsessive and a stupid conspiracy theorist who believes everything he reads in the weirder corners of the internet but now shows himself to be also a foul mouthed barbarian.
      He who resorts to childish name calling reveals his lack of intelligence, but we knew that.
      Off you go now and adjust your tinfoil hat. Another layer of aluminium foil will prevent THEM from reading your mind.
      Really the Earth IS round.

    475. Fred says:

      Hatuey says:
      “We need to select on the basis of what is best for the long term interests of the species as a whole; that means men who are both brave and smart, and women that are optimised for reproduction. A ratio of 2 or 3 women to every man probably makes sense.”

      Showing your true Nazi credentials tonight Hatster. What chapter of Mein Kampf did you lift that from?

    476. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Hatuey’s brain has left the building…

      🙁

    477. Hatuey says:

      Fred, it’s precisely because of negative waves like that that you’ll be getting left behind.

      Moaners and politics-heads need not apply.

    478. Ian Brotherhood says:

      So, ‘brave and smart’ Hatuey needs two or three ‘reproduction-optimised’ women to join him.

      Any takers?

      (PS Must be willing to live in a space station.)

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    479. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      9 August, 2021 at 9:44 pm

      It’s too late to fix the world and world leaders aren’t serious about trying.

      We need to select on the basis of what is best for the long term interests of the species as a whole; that means men who are both brave and smart, and women that are optimised for reproduction. A ratio of 2 or 3 women to every man probably makes sense.

      I’d propose we look to guarantee the existence of maybe 10 thousand people at most, with half based here on earth (in the safest places we can find and develop) and the other half sustained on some sort of space resort.

      Utter drivel.

      Try a ratio of 1 male:12 female to establish a healthy re-population.

      *A master race is based on environmental factors not just genetics. Covid infected pauper, PhD, Politico, Psychopath et al.*

      In your brave new world of 5000 earth dwellers and 5000 *checks notes* “on some sort of space resort”, do the workies get to use the resort facilities as they’re being built?

      Auf Wiedersehen, pET on satellite telly in the future?

      Hatuey, who pretends to be a compassionate fascist, is a fud.

      Discussion is one thing. Desperation is another.

    480. Fred says:

      Hatuey says:
      “I’d propose we look to guarantee the existence of maybe 10 thousand people at most”

      Shame – i’ll not have a vaccine passport, so won’t be able to join you in Davos this winter? Do say hello to Uncle Klaus for me though won’t you?

    481. Hatuey says:

      Ian, to tell the truth, I’m just sick of people making Armageddon sound so boring and unpleasant.

      If the nay-sayers were around when the Great Oxygenation Event unfolded, they’d have moaned about that too.

    482. Ian Brotherhood says:

      No-one can claim to have read every comment ever posted on this site, but I’ve read many thousands and few have made me laugh as much as Hatuey’s 9.44 tonight.

      Instant classic.

      Bravo sah!

      Bravo I say!

      😉

    483. Fred says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      “I’ve read many thousands and few have made me laugh as much as Hatuey’s 9.44 tonight.”

      Hope he stays on for a bit longer yet – it’s like shooting fish in a barrel!

    484. James Che. says:

      Sarah,
      I am sure you understand that no one has any faith left in the snp after the seven year itch of waiting for them to make a definite move.
      Or the speech on wait to see what happens with Brexit.
      The media say the people have lost faith in AS, he is the one not to be trusted,
      However in reality in Scotland it is the actual the opposite.
      No one trusts the snp as they have lied so often. Mislead and stymied independence.

      The ordinary snp have not protested at the wrong direction taken by the leader.
      What have the ordinary snp been doing for the last seven years, besides collecting payslips.
      There are no real snp left, they have morphed into into labour and greens behind the shell name.
      If you go back to the time of the last election, you will read how my spouse and I had a conversation with our local mp,
      He was delighted that AS did not win, he was delighted to be taken on more of the greens gender issues and climate change policies.
      Independence was not mentioned,
      If you go back further here ( see 2017, 2018, ) you will see me reporting how a high flying member of the snp whom used to sit slightly to the left and behind NS during fm questions said that sovereignty should be in the Scottish Parliament, I disagreed and said sovereignty should remain with the Scots as people, he disputed my opinion, and the snp lady with him started backing him up,

      I believe that for me and many others to believe in in the snp the whole lot need gutting out the same way that the Scottish Parliament does.
      Rats tails follow rats.

      There has to be a bigger shake up than what you are suggesting,

    485. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Fred –

      We could start a fundraiser to send him into space (but not before he’s taken his protein pills and put his helmet on, naturally).

      And we can send up his fertile ladies of choice later.

      And that’s a ‘promise’.

      🙂

    486. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Hatuey at 9:44 pm.

      You typed,
      “We can see that there’s a process underway. Fires and floods are just the more obvious signs; we can guess that equally powerful forces are at work in the world of chemicals and biology. For example, nobody really knows what will be released into the atmosphere when the ice-caps melt.”

      There have been around 22-25 ice ages over the past 2.5 billion years. Proved by glacial ice cores and ocean bed core samples, each ice age has lasted around 90,000 years, with an interglacial of around 10,000 years. We are around 11,500 into the current interglacial.

      The onset of each ice age has been preceded by ‘climate upset’, like volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, wildfires and so on, for around 50-100 years before glaciation.

      The problem is, if the northern ice caps melts, it deposits megaloads of fresh water into the north Atlantic. The effect of this is to halt the “Atlantic conveyor’, which means that we, in north-western Europe, no longer benefit from the Gulf Stream, so temperatures plummet.

      Wick will not be sub-tropical, it will be covered in ice. The palm trees on the north-west coast will be no more.

    487. Mist001 says:

      It’s gone from Independence to Covid to the creation of the master race.

      Never a dull moment.

    488. Hatuey says:

      Glad to hear it made you chuckle, Ian.

      I laugh a lot at comments on here. The only stuff that depresses me is politics stuff, and that’s largely down to Sturgeon. Whatever happens, she doesn’t get going to my space resort…

    489. Derek says:

      “…with half based here on earth (in the safest places we can find and develop) and the other half sustained on some sort of space resort…”

      Oh, fer fucksake… just accept that we’re fucked, will you?

    490. Hatuey says:

      Brian, all that stuff confuses me. You seem to be saying global warming leads to cooling.

      People are welcome to call me a climate change denier or whatever, I just don’t think there’s a person smart enough to predict anything when it comes to the climate… The whole carbon in the atmosphere theory seems to neglect a million other variables.

      I remember a volcano erupted in 1990, Philippines or Indonesia, I can’t remember, and they said it resulted in a measurable fall in global temperatures.

      It seems to me the more crap we pump into the atmosphere, then, the cooler things should get.

    491. Scott says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      9 August, 2021 at 10:52 pm

      The problem is, if the northern ice caps melts, it deposits megaloads of fresh water into the north Atlantic. The effect of this is to halt the “Atlantic conveyor’, which means that we, in north-western Europe, no longer benefit from the Gulf Stream, so temperatures plummet.

      Wick will not be sub-tropical, it will be covered in ice. The palm trees on the north-west coast will be no more.

      If more water is released into the North Atlantic, the effect on the climate will be as of now.

      If atmospheric temperatures rise, the rains will rain etc.

      Atmospheric pressure changes with the tides etc, but the standard will remain.

      If sea levels rise enough, the rivers may flood some land, but the pressure at source will balance enough to stop all the “spring water” ending up in the sea and flooding everywhere.

      If the Sahara becomes fertile again, could that ever be a bad thing?

      Entropy & equilibrium are forgotten in this debate, but fear has a permanent seat at the table.

    492. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Scott (and Hatuey).

      The problem that we, humans, have as occupants of this planet, is that mother nature seeks a balance.

      In the past (and future?), this balance has been achieved by regular glaciation.

      Have a look at these links:-

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46345280

      https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2006/02/14/Remineralisation-vital-for-future-of-food?n=65812-minerals-nutrients-vegetables

      http://www.greatdreams.com/iceage.htm

      If the Gulf Stream stops, wirra doomed! In Scotland, we are on the same latitude as northern Canada. The Gulf Stream gives us a more temperate climate, compared to Hudson Bay.

      Global warming is only a by-product of general ‘climate change’. When the ‘tipping point’ arrives, we, as humans, will be unable to reverse it.

    493. J.o.e says:

      @Ruby

      If I started a blog, with the things I have to say, I would be in prison within about 3 to 6 months.

      @Hatuey

      I have considered being ‘political’ with that I think and pretending a lighter view on certain subjects.

      I speak what I think is true. Happy to be proven wrong.

      Im not interested in leading a movement or party or even being a member. I contribute here because I find people need some nudging to be looking in the right direction so they can see for themselves.

      It’s like the whole fascism thing – if someone tells you that the forest you are walking in has a man eating animal in it and you make the assumption that you are up against a bear or a lion then while you are peering into the bushes you will be less likely to notice the anaconda in the tree above you.

      When people call what’s going on ‘fascism’ they are doing precisely that. I know the youtube commentariat and others love to use that word but its just not true and if you are looking for fascism you will not be able to easily predict what is coming next.

      For me, what we are up against is international communism of the variety pushed in 1917. This has and continues to allow me to gauge future political direction with some accuracy. If I was looking for fascism I would be lost because their is nothing nationalist about the totalitarian efforts against us. In fact it is distinctly anti-nationalist and an absolute enemy of any people who wish to maintain their nation, culture and country.

      Ultimately the terrible truths that lie at the bottom of this perspective leads me to being public enemy number 1 to anyone who is basically stuck in the mainstream and a potential prison inmate thanks to our free and just laws.

      But then it has to be that way, because if my way of thinking (not unique to myself, and gaining ground every day) caught on there would be a meaningful revolution within a very short time and the el-ites would never be able to put the lid back on the box like they did before.

    494. Scott says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      10 August, 2021 at 12:10 am

      Hi Scott (and Hatuey).

      The problem that we, humans, have as occupants of this planet, is that mother nature seeks a balance.

      “mother nature” doesn’t seek anything, there’s always balance. Human perspective based on fear is used to skew the data involved re the climate, alongside the arrogance that humans must maintain existence to save the Earth.

      Wick becoming covered in ice wouldn’t just happen overnight, but is presented it as though it would be in your ‘doomsday’ scenario. Plus, as Ben Shapiro said re rising water levels, “Don’t you think the people would just sell their houses and move?”

      The Sahara wouldn’t become fertile overnight, but bring it on.

      If all the pack ice melted, life would continue. Seals don’t have to live on ice, so if Polar Bears drown or starve to extinction it’s not my fault. Fuck them.

      Entropy & equilibrium describe constants.

    495. Hatuey says:

      “When the ‘tipping point’ arrives, we, as humans, will be unable to reverse it.”

      And that’s exactly why I want to fire a few nukes at the moon. There’s a lot of ice up there. We can melt it and create seas of fresh water; in turn, through evaporation, an atmosphere… throw in a few used condoms and you have all the basic building blocks of another Clyde Estuary.

      We need to start thinking laterally about all this stuff.

    496. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      10 August, 2021 at 1:07 am

      And that’s exactly why I want to fire a few nukes at the moon. There’s a lot of ice up there. We can melt it and create seas of fresh water


      The Med could be turned into a “freshwater” lake by building a dam between Africa & Europe with a compensation pipe pumping into the Atlantic.

      Atlantic marine life would survive; land-connected ecosystems would thrive in Europe, Africa, Middle East, Asia.

      As has been shown with these so-called artificial islands in Dubai & near Taiwan, reclaiming the seawater has an obvious solution.

      No need to nuke anywhere.



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