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The road already travelled

Posted on September 13, 2020 by

There’s a good column by Kevin McKenna in today’s Herald On Sunday about Boris Johnson, from which this paragraph in particular jumped out at us.

It did so because of something else we’d just read this weekend.

In a week in which the UK government blithely announced that breaking the law was fine as long as you did it in a “specific and limited way”, we also discovered that the Scottish Government has quietly changed the meaning of the word “heterosexual” as well as the meaning of the word “woman” and the number of human sexes.

Both the UK and Scottish governments are currently deploying, in different but related ways, what we know from history are the tactics of fascism (accompanied in one of the two cases by a worryingly familiar willingness to redefine fundamental human biology for entirely political reasons, and “re-educate” the public to accept the new version).

If only there’d been some sort of lesson we could have learned from past events about the importance of fighting those before it became too late, eh?

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    1. 13 09 20 12:56

      The road already travelled | speymouth

    243 to “The road already travelled”

    1. Duncan Adam says:

      Listening to BBC Radio 6 the other day there was a segment about indy record labels and their inability to project new acts in a time when no gigs are permitted. One interviewee was the founder of a label which promotes “minority genders” – dearie me!

    2. jfngw says:

      Spotted this headline in ‘The Register’:

      ‘NASA is sending two small hand-luggage suitcase-sized spacecraft to study binary asteroids in 2022’

      No doubt there be some in Holyrood that claim asteroids are not binary but are part of a full spectrum of cosmic phenomenon.

    3. kapelmeister says:

      jfngw @12:46 pm

      You mean there are no Lady Astor-oids?

    4. susanXX says:

      Yup Stu disturbingly like fascism, also if you want one thing (independence) you’re gonna have to accept xyz (hate crime, genderwoowoo etc), just like if you want to make Germany great again you have to accept the Gestapo.

    5. Lorenzo says:

      Night and Fog is next in the playbook

    6. jfngw says:

      @kapelmeister

      I don’t know, but haemorrhoids are definitely non binary as my ten are all of a different spectrum. Maybe that’s what’s confusing the politicians.

    7. Muscleguy says:

      As a biological scientist the conflation of sex & gender has gradually made my blood boil more and more. In applying for things on the equalities form if it asks me what my gender is I choose (Decline to Answer) or equivalent. Both because I do not have a gender as indicated often later in the same form when I’m asked if I’m heterosexual, etc. They mean gender to mean sex but it doesn’t.

      This is my personal, scientific protest against this new gender orthodoxy. If you want to know what sex i am then bloody well ask me and i will answer. Otherwise I shall decline to do so.

      I’m waiting to see the census form to decide what I do there.

    8. Albert Herring says:

      Stu

      Chrome: “This site can’t be reached wingsoverscotland.com’s server IP address could not be found”

      Can only see your site using Epic privacy browser.

    9. Milady says:

      “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

      I think all of us reading this are aware of our need to “do” something. But what? We need independence more urgently than ever to address the most immediate fascism, yet the SNP’s actions on GRA and Hate Crime drive me every day to despair and political homelessness. May is still 8 months away and me just battering away on a keyboard, venting onto Twitter etc, feels like pissing in the wind.

      The fact that both govts have chosen to act opportunistically during the pandemic is manipulative politics of the worst kind. We know we need to be on the streets, and at any other time I believe we would be, only Covid restrictions keep us suppressed.

      I honestly despise both Tories AND SNP right now.

    10. Muscleguy says:

      @kapelmeister

      No they mean rocky vs icy asteroids or it could mean metal asteroids vs others. Those are about the only sets of criteria which would make sense. Size is pretty much a continuum for eg. Albedo ditto.

    11. Chris Godwin says:

      The “philologist” mentioned in the quoted passage was probably Victor Klemperer, whose Lingua Tertii Imperii (Language of the Third Reich)(Bloomsbury 2013) provides useful analogies to the perversions of language, inflicted on us by “the virus”, attuning us to becoming willingly unfree “biosecurity threats”. Rev Stu, I’m continually amazed by your stamina and clear thinking!

    12. Daisy Walker says:

      There is a great deal of corporate money involved in transgender ops, and (even more so thereafter) a lifetime of meds.

      The astro turf campaigning and extremely capable / well funded PR – all singing from the same hymn sheet of tactics (legitimate and / or intimidating) on an international scale, all at the same time.

      That takes not just funding, but corporate backing, resources and planning.

      I don’t doubt that some who push this agenda, genuinely believe. But I think it unlikely that others, are not going to get some wealth / career reward for their efforts, and are entirely corrupt on this issue.

      Since it is such a global push – Westminster’s dilemma will be how to weaponise it against the SNP come election time, in such a way that does not damage their requirement to push it on the English soon after.

      Sadly – it is such a badly written law – it will lead to an increase in sex crimes against women and children, and thereafter a backlash against transgender people themselves.

      With regards Mr McKenna’s comments about us getting de-scensitised to Boris activities – we offer the people of Scotland respite, an island of sanity…

      We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris, Believe In Scotland, Believe In You.

    13. Andrew F says:

      One of the most effective behavioural control/modification tools is to make people believe that it is impermissible to compare ANYTHING EVER to certain conduct of the rulers of European countries leading up to and during WWII.

      Pure genius: “You can’t draw comparisons between us and the people who did other things using the same tricks we’re using because then….., well you just can’t. So shut up.”

    14. Woodside Wullie says:

      Noo I’m being telt that I never funcied the quines I went oot wi’ or the quine I mairried.

    15. jfngw says:

      Despite our dislike of the Hate Crime and GRA bills, these are small fry compared to where the Tories are taking us with there ‘National Capitalism’. There is very little difference in the end game between what they want and the direction Germany was headed in the thirties. An Anschluss where the other countries are snuffed out just leaving greater England.

      You may not have to worry soon about Holyrood passing these bills, it won’t have the power to anything if they have their way. Any bill can be overturned but it is much harder to gain independence once you have been subsumed, and time is getting short.

    16. Andrew F says:

      Milady @ 1:04

      You say: “We know we need to be on the streets, and at any other time I believe we would be, only Covid restrictions keep us suppressed.”

      Yes – they do keep you suppressed. Isn’t that handy?

      The article could easily be read to warn about exactly what this whole current fear event is doing.

      I’m in Australia, and the fiercely violent govt/police reaction to the peaceful (safely conforming to “rules” about masks etc…) protests in Melbourne are terrifying. Our media is 100% on board while genuine Australians who just might save us from what they are planning as “the new normal” are doing exactly what we all thought the German people of the 1930’s should have done….if they were “decent”, as we always used to believe we were.

    17. Ronald Fraser says:

      Why is Sturgeon not at least giving her SNP membership an update on the Party’s views on Scottish Independence?

      Sturgeon admits she can only deal with one issue at a time, yet Johnson can deal with multiple issues at any one time.

      He is dealing with Covid-19, Brexit, breaking international laws, pulling out of international conventions, pushing through new laws that will all but make Holyrood powerless,,,yet our Snow flake First Minister says she has no time to push back against Johnson, because she is up to her neck in fighting this evil virus and making sure no more than six people are in one house at a time.

      MEANWHILE,,, SCOTLAND BURNS.

      Now howz this for thinking outside the box Nicola, why not appoint a Health Minister to oversee the Covid19 crisis, and you tackle Johnson head on?

    18. Daisy Walker says:

      Milady says:
      13 September, 2020 at 1:04 pm

      I think all of us reading this are aware of our need to “do” something. But what? We need independence more urgently than ever to address the most immediate fascism, yet the SNP’s actions on GRA and Hate Crime drive me every day to despair and political homelessness. May is still 8 months away and me just battering away on a keyboard, venting onto Twitter etc, feels like pissing in the wind.

      Firstly don’t despair, there are people out there – former No Voters – and they are looking at the Yessers now, with a view to sidling up and asking a few pertinent questions.

      Be a rock for them, they need you, we need them and we all need to pull together to save our country.

      Second of all – a leader would be nice, but is not essential. But we do need a rough road map, and a rough plan.

      So here it is.

      We get support for Indy over 60% by years end.

      A we do that with leaflets, with posters, with posters on T shirts, with off the cuff remarks about ‘we can do so much better than Boris’ About how we need to do this to save our NHS, our farmers and fishing and our food standards, and and, and.

      In the process of campaigning to get Yes over 60% before years end, we identify electable candidates in our own areas. They are our back up – against the SNP if the SNP remains lost.

      Once indy support is over 60% NS and co will have no legitimate argument to say ‘Scotland isn’t ready’.

      The SNP will have between January – February to apply for and get a reply on S30 once and for all. A no reply is deemed to be a NO.

      Inaction by the SNP in these circumstances, will be the death of the SNP.

      In that time, we fund raise an election campaign fund – for candidates who will stand for Holyrood as a plebiscite election for Indy, and who do not support the pushing at this time of GRA, or Hate Crime Bill. Indy First.

      If, the SNP put up, they can be granted some of this money on a candidate by candidate basis. If not, the local hero’s identified before hand, step up to the mark and put themselves up for election.

      Is there enough time to do this – yes. Is there enough know how. Yes. Will it be accused of ‘splitting the yes movement’ by those who cannot see past NS – more than likely.

      But even they cannot, absolutely cannot, decry getting support for Indy over 60%. Truly something worthwhile to keep us all occupied.

      And remember, its such a simple, undeniable truth – We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    19. Astonished says:

      susanXX – ” if you want to make Germany great again you have to accept the Gestapo.”. Genius. Exactly what the SNP are up to.

      We need to know which prospective SNP candidates are woke. angus macleod needs to be gone by november.

    20. shug says:

      I suppose there is the point is Wings being send spinning into a corner worrying about gender rather than independence??

      Just asking

      I worry more at Labour and Conservatives not kicking balls into the open goal – if you pardon the phrase

    21. Dave M says:

      It’s beyond time for Sturgeon and her science-denying cronies to go. That there is no alternative at all (never mind a credible one) to the SNP, shows the cancerous state of Scottish politics.

    22. shug says:

      Daisy Walker says

      I wonder why staunch unionists are not protesting at N Ireland being broken away from the UK

      Will Rangers and Celtic fans coming over for football be subject to checks at the border??

    23. Stan Broadwood says:

      Daisy Walker

      I thought you have been outside campaigning to get us above 60%.

      But here you are, wasting valuable time sitting in front of a computer.

      Or were you just suggesting some other idiot went out campaigning in all sorts of weather, while you sit on your arse playing with your computer???

      Are you just s big mouthed hypocrite???

      Another one of Nicola’s Roadies???

    24. susanXX says:

      I feel exactly as you do Milady!
      Great post DaisyWalker @ 1:30.

    25. Lorna Campbell says:

      This must qualify as the greatest binary con of them all: on the one hand, we have the UKG breaching international law all over the place and believing that domestic legislation entitles them to do so (domestic law cannot supersede international law, only break it) and, on the other, we have the SG redefining women and biological science, while ignoring the fact or refusing to act on the fact, that we are being swallowed alive and whole. Never mind, eh?

      We can all prance around in baby’s disposable nappies and tell ourselves we’re free. Pity they don’t make disposable bras for babies, then everyone who is a woman, whether or not they have boobs, could prance around in the whole ensemble. Well, we are free of cogent thought, free of sense and scientific awareness, and, certainly, free of moral fibre, aka a spine, so it’s how you tell ’em, really.

      Ian Blackford’s lamentable performance on Politics Scotland this morning (Sunday) was spectacularly inane. They are breaking the devolution settlement, he bleated, rather like a very large and trapped sheep, that had never heard of the word, independence. Yes, Ian, and what the feck are you and your party going to do about it, apart from bleat and do nothing while we sink deeper and deeper into the doo-doo created by your party’s ‘wokerati’ allied to Johnson and Cummings in a danse macabre, rather like the Weimar cabaret movement that just refused to see what was coming, even when its proponents were some of the first victims?

    26. Grouse Beater says:

      I tried to get to grips with creeping fascism in the UK and our own party two years ago, summarily smeared by its adherents for my effort.

      “Fascist – Us and Them: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-n5A

    27. CameronB Brodie says:

      In denying the biological differences between males and females, Scots law is being forces to detach itself from moral reason. All legal systems must respect a foundational moral theory, in order to be universal and impartial. Democracy and universal human rights are not possible if you deny a legal respect for biology and the human genome, which along with Natural law, provide the foundations of international human rights law.

      Convention for the protection of Human Rights and Dignity of the Human Being with regard to the Application of Biology and Medicine: Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine
      https://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/treaty/164

    28. kapelmeister says:

      Funny that these SNP woke folk aren’t so keen on saying that the independence movement is a spectrum. It’s ‘obey Queen Nikki or else you’re a rascal’.

    29. CameronB Brodie says:

      For the last time, these GRA proposals are as far from woke as it gets, as they provide the foundations for a totalitarian state, rather than empowering women and the politically marginalised.

    30. Frank Gillougley says:

      One of the things I remember reading that has stuck with me in Albert Camus’ study of political philosophy, ‘The Rebel’, was that the only political philosophy held by the national socialists was that of ‘action’. This of course, rings a bell.

    31. P says:

      Well said Stu re creeping fascism.
      Sturgeon is apparently too busy with Covid, being unable or unwilling to delegate and give her attention to other important issues.
      *Women are well known as multitaskers and are skilled at delegating tasks* hmm?
      And yet, she’s still tweeting her book reviews… l don’t get it.
      Unless there’s a hidden meaning in the books reviewed? Surely not though – only a narcissist would do that

    32. CameronB Brodie says:

      Remember folks, I’ve not looked at this stuff in nearly thirty years, yet I appear to be more capable than our lawmakers, of defending Scotland’s democracy from constitutional abuse. That is truly terrifying.

      PUBLIC INTEREST LAW JOURNAL [Vol. 13, 2003]
      BIOLOGICAL BASIS OF HUMAN RIGHTS

      http://biologyoflaw.org/Downloads/BiologicalBasisOfHumanRights.pdf

    33. Peter A Bell says:

      From my blog today, some comments about the fait accompli which I think may be relevant.

      “Opportunists and the politically adroit alike seize opportunities. And Brexit was pregnant with opportunities for those intent upon reshaping nations. Or destroying them.

      If theses forces have a mission statement it might well be ‘Just do it!’. Whatever it is that needs to be done to achieve an objective or to progress a project or to recover from a setback, just do it! Don’t get hung up on legal niceties and political calculations, just fucking do it!

      Do whatever it takes. Use the power of the fait accompli. Just do it because once it is done it almost certainly can’t be undone because doing it changes the ground rules. Don’t think like hyper-cautious lawyers and vacillating politicians. Think like engineers! Engineers who are dismantling an existing structure in order to build something new – keeping only the old foundations and the basic skeleton. Stripping away the facade and ripping out the interior so as to construct a new reality around the framework of the old order. Re-purposing the ancient framework of British power, privilege and patronage to assist in the re-engineering of the British state.”

    34. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’d like to believe our direction of travel is down to ignorance, but I can’t. It is the result of legal parochialism and the latent misogyny of the law.

      Does the blame for this drive towards totalitarianism not rest with the Lord Advocate?

      Women’s Rights Guide
      https://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/2008/07/guide-women.pdf

    35. David Caledonia says:

      George Galloway

      Yes the arch bufoon has a new master plan to save the union, basically he wants all the seats to be contested by a unionist and an SNP candidate
      Yes this lickspittle of a scotsman is coming to bore us all again with his waffle and piffle, and the funniest thing about his party, he has joined in an alliance with a tory intransigent twat to help him, as they say, you couldn’t make it up

      Independence is there for the taking, and with Leonard the yorkshire puddin still there its guaranteed

    36. Effijy says:

      To the Tory Fascist Party and the Woke SNP members-
      URANUS!

      You have left the planet and good luck up your new home.

    37. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon appears to be extremely sympathetic to the LGBTI+ community, which is fine, but you cannot then decide to change the fundamentals of biology as to more than two different sexes. Simply changing the wording doesn’t alter the facts, however the danger lies in when it is then put into law, and people then are financially punished or even imprisoned for speaking out against it.

      Its a very dangerous path for Sturgeon and the SNP for that matter to tread.

    38. CameronB Brodie says:

      The practice of Scots law is not only parochial in relation to international law, denying biological reality prevents the potential for a coherent policy framework. The GRA proposals support a legal parochialism between policy fields and legal interest. So the Scottish government is destroying the potential for justice and democracy.

      Is the Lord Advocate not responsible for this?

      The Law and Economics of Legal Parochialism
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217219148.pdf

    39. livionian says:

      ‘People who menstruate’ 2.0

    40. Robert Graham says:

      This reminds me of various shops and outlets attempting to introduce Adult themed clothes into children’s clothing ranges , the people who picked up this growing trend pointed out it’s a never ending fight to curtail the dubious company’s and individuals constantly push push pushing and wanting to turn children into adults with the introduction of makeup to children and watching until the parents were distracted , the same methods are being used , maybe it’s time Adults stepped in and stopped it once and for all , f/k this being nice and understanding this lot don’t give up , maybe it’s time the Adults took a stand and said that’s it all you twisted f/in Woke fkrs you made the mistake of Waking up the bloody Adults , before no one was probably interested and you were allowed to beaver away out of sight , I believe that’s changed and the ones inside the SNP either stop it or the members will stop you if they don’t the Electorate will stop the SNP it’s your choice .

      Do you feel lucky ?

    41. John Jones says:

      I am seriously considering standing as a candidate, as ” an Indy for Indy” in Mays election.I’m fed up bumping my gums about the rubbish SNP, time to put my money where my mouth is.
      Time to make a stand and give the other browned off voters a chance to back someone who will fight tooth and nail to force the SNP to show some intention of, at least, going for Indy ref2.

    42. Lorna Campbell says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      13 September, 2020 at 2:05 pm
      “… For the last time, these GRA proposals are as far from woke as it gets, as they provide the foundations for a totalitarian state, rather than empowering women and the politically marginalised… ”

      Yes, you are right, of course, Cameron. I always put ‘wokerati’ or ‘woke’, in reference to this phenomenon, in inverted commas so as not to mistake it for genuine ‘woke’ issues, which originated with the black civil rights movement.

      Peter A. Bell: Peter, in relation to ‘Just do it”, I have read of very few – none, might be nearer the mark – who want independence at the cost of democracy. The point that has to be made is that there are several democratic routes to democracy, not just a second indyref. If this latest debacle has shown anything, it is that international law, which also governs the Treaty of Union, cannot simply be set aside without consequences.

      The difference and gulf between independistas saying, just do it, hen we are talking to a foot-dragging SG that puts everything before independence and has been moving at a glacial pace when there is no need for it at all, and the Brexiteers saying, just do it, when they are talking to a right-wing, pro fascist, Tory government that is hell-bent on an ultra right nationalistic approach to the UK and the outside world, is as wide as the distance between the Earth and the Sun.

      The UKG at least recognizes that international law exists, whilst being willing to breach it; the SG does not even recognize it in the independence context. Sorry, but there is little similarity, and the real madness now, lies in insisting on a second indyref instead of exploring these other equally democratic routes. The other factor, of course, is time, which we simply do not have now, to ‘persuade’ the ‘unpersuadable’, a factor also recognized in international law under the heading: colonialism.

    43. bipod says:

      The SNP and Johnson governments certainly are installing a fascist authoritarian state. During this covid “crisis” we have seen the most unprecedented assault on our democracy and personal libterties in history. Laws such as the “rule of six” and the mandatory mask wearing were made by decree without so much as a single debate or vote in either parliament, and that is not even mentioning nicolas suspension of FOI and all elections. Unfortunately this has been largely welcomed by a fear stricken public.

      Nicola sturgeon even said recently on her semi-regular appearance on GMB that we will never go back to the “old normal”. Better get used to the Scottish government micromanaging every aspect of your lives.

    44. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lorna Campbel
      Thanks for discriminating between fact and fiction. 😉

      A Practitioner’s Toolkit on Women’s Access to Justice Programming
      MODULE 1:
      The Theory and Practice of
      Women’s Access to Justice Programming

      https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/PractitionerToolkit/WA2J_Module1.pdf

    45. David Caledonia says:

      You have one choice and one choice only and you know it, and all your greeting and girning will not change that choice and you know it
      So you can be sensible and vote SNP and you know it
      Like most on here I never read 99% of what’s posted, same old stuff, its like groundhog day meets the magic roundabout, in fact zebeedee is more interesting than most of the dross that passes for intelligent debate

      Have a nice day

    46. Josef Ó Luain says:

      @Daisy Walker

      One of those No voters sidled up to me the-other-day and pertinently inquired what the currency will be after independence. No-capture, for very obvious reasons, was the result of that little discussion.

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      Our principle moral obligation to ourselves and other, is to maintain our biological integrity, a.k.a. our health. This helps us to avoid becoming a burden on society, and enables us to help others.

      It is clear to me that you have little appreciation of moral theory or the law, and thet your principle aim is to support your ideological outlook. Are you the Lord Advocate?

      Journal of Moral Education, Volume 49, 2020 – Issue 3: Self-Determination Theory, Morality, and Education
      Consistency and moral integrity: A self-determination theory perspective

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03057240.2019.1695589?scroll=top&needAccess=true

    48. Beaker says:

      As to the definition of “heterosexual”, what the fuck are they playing at? The definition given in the Oxford Dictionary is “sexually attracted to the opposite sex”. How are they going to define “homosexual”?

      Piece of advice folks. Keep a copy of the Oxford Dictionary to hand, so when the Thought Police turn up at your door you can quote it when challenged.

      It reminds me of the book “A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich”, where Shukov is told that if the sun is at it’s peak then it is noon, because of a Soviet Decree. That seems to be where we are going.

    49. Beaker says:

      Oops, one o’clock, not noon. That’s what I get for watching TV at the same time.

    50. David Caledonia says:

      Albert Speer

      Has anyone noticed how some people use big words that they would never use if they where down the pub, lets say
      I have noticed it here for a long time, I don’t have to mention any names as I think we all know who they are
      We have the likes of Stephen Fry who does the same and many others to
      numerous to mention
      well, as you see my headline name is Albert Speer, when asked what advice he would give any young man starting out in life, the infamous Mr Speer replied, work on your charisma young man, or words to that effect.
      Mr Speer was a very clever man indeed, he talked himself out of the hangmans noose when most of his companions had a go on the swings
      Anyway, my point is,this, using big words does not make you intelligent, and there is not such thing as charisma, there is another word to replace charisma and that word is, well pick one , i’m sure you can fill in that blank space for yourself

    51. ahundredthidiot says:

      Cuties still up on netflix – membership remains cancelled.

      all roads lead to legalised paedophilia – that’s what we are dealing with.

    52. Robert Graham says:

      Brewer + Blackford f/k me honestly

      Brewer was giving Blackford a hand this morning and by f/k something it’s he needs in order for people to interpret the absolute bloody drivel he spouts when sometimes asked even simple questions he makes a song and dance and the Audience falls asleep totally baffled

      Brewer prompted him to cut the Tory government off at the Pass after speaking to Barclay a Tory minister who refused to say that they would point blank refuse a deal that lowers food standards after we cut ties with the EU , I don’t think Blackford was even listening so Brewer prompted him again same blank bloody look , he had one thing and one thing only on his mind and isn’t agile enough to adapt to changing circumstances , no wonder Johnston takes the piss out of him

    53. ahundredthidiot says:

      milady at 13:04

      ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

      I think all of us reading this are aware of our need to “do” something. But what?’

      well, you can start by cancelling your netflix membership if you have one. vote with your feet.

    54. leither says:

      some of my best friends are wingers…

    55. Lukas Scholts says:

      What rings out of the email extract is the presumption that the general public is incapable of understanding things and assumed to be thick. That’s a common theme with Sturgeon’s government.

      There’s a laziness about Boris and Sturgeon though. Everything is made up as they go along and hinges on their ability to wing it. Again, that’s all consistent with the presumption that we are all dumb.

      It’s lazy to think you can just dismiss international law. It’s lazy to assume you can change definitions of words and core ideas in the lexicon of understanding, rather than win an argument.

      It’s lazy to think you can ignore the independence movement and debate and focus instead on self-aggrandisement.

      These are lazy people who think we are dumb. I honestly doubt if Boris or Nicola has or ever had any long term plan or principled view on anything outside of “what’s in it for me?”

    56. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘No, the Woke Won’t Debate You: Here’s Why’

      ‘Debate and conversation, especially when they rely upon reason, rationality, science, evidence, epistemic adequacy, and other Enlightenment-based tools of persuasion are the very thing they think produced injustice in the world in the first place. Those are not their methods and they reject them. Their methods are, instead, storytelling and counter-storytelling, appealing to emotions and subjectively interpreted lived experience, and problematizing arguments morally, on their moral terms. Because they know the dominant liberal order values those things sense far less than rigor, evidence, and reasoned argument, they believe the whole conversation and debate game is intrinsically rigged against them in a way that not only leads to their certain loss but also that props up the existing system and then further delegitimizes the approaches they advance in their place. Critical Social Justice Theorists genuinely believe getting away from the “master’s tools” is necessary to break the hegemony of the dominant modes of thought. Debate is a no-win for them.’

      https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why/

    57. Josef Ó Luain says:

      @ bipod

      People keep talking about some golden-age wherein people in the UK had rights. Without a constitution, how the fuck can you ever claim that people had rights? Surely you can see that the Covid strictures will and can never be policed thus are purely ornamental. Don’t wear a mask, who cares? That’s entirely up-to-you, but please lay off in your attempts at propagandizing on behalf of your tedious, minority agenda.

    58. CameronB Brodie says:

      David Caledonia
      You appear to object to a technically correct use of language. Are you the Lord Advocate?

      Language Teaching, Volume 20, Issue 4, October 1987 , pp. 227-234
      Language of the law

      https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/language-teaching/article/language-of-the-law/1E5F4AA7C1DEE0DA1D55EFAAC6A85A65

    59. James Barr Gardner says:

      I hope am’ deid afore it’s mandary ! Lol !

    60. David Caledonia says:

      You have the right to just ignore most of it as I have done for many years
      But, you must appear to be conforming while having a quiet chuckle to yourself while laughing inside at all the sheep jumping in the air

    61. MaggieC says:

      They’ve already changed the definition of WOMEN in the gender representation of women on public boards in Scotland ,

      So if it’s to be 50/50 representation what’s to stop 6 men declaring that they are transwoman and being elected onto the board and then you end up with 100 % MEN on the board .

      So all they need to do , is one day declare they wish to be called Jill wear a skirt and apply for a position on the board and they then get elected , turn up to board meetings as Jill and then go back to the other days wearing trousers and want to be called Jack .

      N B No offence is intended to anyone called Jill or Jack LOL

      Paragraphs from the act ,

      “ If a board has 12 non-executive members, the gender representative objective is that the board has 6 non-executive members who are women. “

      “ The definition of ‘woman’ for the purposes of the Act
      2.12 Section 2 of the Act provides that for the purposes of the Act, “woman” includes “a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010[2]) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female”.

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/gender-representation-public-boards-scotland-act-2018-statutory-guidance/pages/2/

    62. David Caledonia says:

      Just my many years of observation Mr B, my language skills are not perfect and neither is my grammar, but using big words when a simple everyday word will do is not to much to ask, there are lots of mendacious mendicants on the streets these days or in simple terms, lying beggers

    63. bipod says:

      @Josef

      So because we technically have no rights in the first place (according to you) that makes authoritarian restrictions fine? I love it. I find it amazing that there are people on here who can rail against the “fascism” of nicola trying to redefine the meaning of some words, but simultaneously have nothing to say about the very real authoritarian restrictions imposed on us all by decree. Eevn attack those of us who do have a problem with it.

      You say they are purely ornamental but tell that to all the people who have been accosted and fined for not following them. You want to know what is currently a tedious minority agenda in Scotland right now? Getting upset about nicola redefining the meaning of hetrosexuality.

    64. Alec Lomax says:

      Equating the Scottish government with Johnson and Cummings. Talk about scraping the barrel.

    65. T.C. Nu says:


      Albert Herring@1:04pm

      I’ve noticed this on and off over the past couple of weeks, both with my ISP (Virgin) and over the phone (Tesco/O2). Site works fine when I use a VPN connection, straight ISP, time-outs, hangs on loading, only loads after multiple attempts..

      I say past couple of weeks, but this has been happening on occasion for several months now, for your amusement, over the past 5 minutes@just before this post..

      From my router (connected to VM cable modem)
      wos-vip.positive-dedicated.net, mtr shows a 38% packet loss at that end.

      From my laptop (connected via gigabit cabling to the router)
      Using a VPN connection to Iceland.

      wos-vip.positive-dedicated.net, mtr shows 10% packet loss at that end.

      I’ve found the VPN connections to this site to be more consistently stable, thats why I now normally use Opera on my android mobile when visiting here.

    66. ahundredthidiot says:

      josef o’luain

      Bipod maybe in a minority, you might be right.

      Margaret Mead Quotes;

      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has

      So, Jo, go eat some grass, bleat bleat.

    67. David Caledonia says:

      I love my books, one day in the library I picked up a book by the former film star Dirk Bogarde, I thought to myself he is an interesting guy
      He was an author by that time living in france, so I took the book home and after one chapter I gave up, it was hard going to say the least
      The famous Lesley Thomas once said, I like to put a few big words in my books because I know the reader will have to go and look it up, and that thought of them doing that amused him no end

    68. Thomas Dunlop says:

      @Muscleguy
      Spot on the conflation of the concepts of gender and sex really annoy me, as a biological scientist. At least it is lazy think and worst deliberate confusion in order to force an agenda.
      Conflation is a common tactic-one just has to look at the melding of Zionism and the Jewish faith by supporters and opponents of Israel that really infuriates as well.
      All in I am relaxed with the concept of multiple genders, but the underlying principle is that it should not harm others. However things being the way they are, and that males tend to be more agressive, letting “female” gendered males into female sex areas without consent of the host community, is a recipe for disaster and possible abuse.
      I’d say there is also a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going on with pitching women against another minority, allowing the latter to trump the former. Can’t they see they poisoning this whole debate? A bit like unionists that like to hate nationalism but be totally oblivious to the fact that they are nationalists as well.
      All in we need more and calm debate (as in scientific discussion), and that comes from have better educated individuals. Something that is lacking nowadays , with lazy thinking encouraged by opinion formers. Something broadly covered here https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/10/facts-v-feelings-how-to-stop-emotions-misleading-us

    69. Ottomanboi says:

      The use of the word ‘gender’, a term meaningful only within the field of linguistics, instead of ‘sex’ began the process of biological falsification. Both the Nazis and Communists were adept at pseudo-science.
      Both were also skilled in the art of manipulating language to suit their ends.

      “Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of the man who can fabricate it.”
      ? Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

    70. Scozzie says:

      So now along with the 70 odd so called genders, can the SNP now define for us the different sexes? This is getting beyond parody.

      Talk about tying yourself in knots trying to sell this pup (male or female or numerous others???) to the punters!

      Good luck to any of the poor sods having to vote in these woke nutters in your constituencies.

      I still think it’s worth naming all the prospective SNP election candidates that are McWoke in the spirit of full disclosure. I really do think people should know who and what they’re voting for.

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      Critical Social Justice Theorists certainly do not deny biological reality. The woke perspective is laudable, but the misrepresentation of woke practice simply assists in the dis-empowerment of women.

      Radical trans activists certainly won’t debate, as it is hard to sell misogyny.

      Psicologia & Sociedade, vol.27 no.3 Belo Horizonte Sept./Dec. 2015
      FEMINISM, PSYCHOLOGY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE: A POSSIBLE MEETING? AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHELLE FINE

      https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0102-71822015000300479&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

    72. Andy Ellis says:

      @Alex Lomax

      Arguably the Scottish Government are in certain respects worse. At least Johnson and Cummings haven’t sat on their arses for the past 5 years achieving hee haw. Nor do they seem particularly keen on gender woo-woo.

      Even a broken clock is right twice a day I suppose. Also, let’s not forget that the reason Scots will most likely be subject to the whims of Westminster for a much longer period than necessary is largely attributable to the fact the SNP leadership lacks the political balls to ensure we have a say anytime this decade.

    73. David Caledonia says:

      The language of the law, god preserve us Mr B, do you actually read that stuff and understand it, if you do you have my deepest admiration for your deligency in the face of utter gobbildigook

    74. Witchy says:

      Any political party that starts their campaigning with Men are Women because we/they say so, have told their first major lie…anything after that is immaterial and can be discounted.
      Social engineering of the two sexes is one to keep an eye on! I watched an interview with NS, and a participant asked if he did not agree with the new ‘woke’ politics would his child be taken away…and our Nic said yes!
      Now that’s fascism!
      I have been a supporter of women’s rights since I saw a woman beaten, and no-one came to her aid, those that tried were pushed aside and told to keep out of it…I was a kid then, and seen a lot worse. But it impressed upon me that women were belongings to be treated however their ‘keeper’ desired.
      NS loves kids, but she refuses to keep them safe from violent, and often devious men by allowing the ‘woke brigade’ to enter schools when kids are such an impressionable age.
      Yes, I support Independence with all my being…but how can I countenance such destruction of women?
      I won’t wheesht for Indy!

    75. David Caledonia says:

      I don’t have a tv so I miss most of the stuff about politics, I get a lot of info from youtube which is much better anyway to get at the truth,
      If Nicola Sturgeon or any other tried to take my child off me I can assure you they would have to be prepared to die trying, and that is what could happen

    76. BJ says:

      Stu I’ve been saying something along the same lines for a while now since I first heard it levelled at Donald Trump. He lives by “do your worst and everything else that comes after it won’t seem so bad” These are not just stupid people they are just evil. Money is theIr God and they will always find a pretext for their tyranny. Boris Johnston, Michael Gove etc may all your sh.ts be hedgehogs.

      Thank you Stu for all your efforts

    77. Dogbiscuit says:

      If only people could apply this timely article to dangerous covid 19 legislation.
      Boris Johnson wants to bring in mandatory daily testing and forced vaccinations.

    78. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 3.56 pm

      Thanks for the link , I’ll get a read at it later .

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      David Caledonia
      You appear to be hostile towards technical expertise. Are you Michael Gove?

    80. Robert Graham says:

      Scozzie .

      A good idea what’s the chance of these devious twisted deviant fkrs admitting to being one of them

      This lot operate out of sight let’s see what a bit of Sunlight does for their chances

      Voted for the SNP in every single election available they carry on like this and well who knows maybe my vote will be withdrawn , I would never vote for any Unionist Party but the SNP are making it very difficult to continue with normal Service , my first move was my membership my vote might just follow , They Work For Us maybe need reminding if they are hard of Hearing

    81. ahundredthidiot says:

      The SNP are in big big trouble right now and I can only come to the conclusion that NS is doing her level best to lose the game for us.

      As it stands, I will not vote for any Party in 2021. Scottish Independence is a dying duck. If key people in the SNP don’t wake the fuck up, and quickly, we’re buggered for an actual generation.

      It’s 5 to midnight and we’re in trouble people. If this continues, it could be back to the drawing board for us and putting the SNP in the firing sites first – no easy task.

    82. CameronB Brodie says:

      Getting back to critical social justice theorists, what do folk think I’ve been punting?

      UCLA Women’s Law Journal, 18(1), 2010
      SOCIAL JUSTICE FEMINISM

      https://escholarship.org/content/qt6hq9x47f/qt6hq9x47f.pdf?t=mlqpyz

    83. Dave M says:

      Cameron, citing papers from 2010 and 2015 hardly reflects contemporary social justice ideology.

      The social justice movement is rooted in postmodernism, which takes the polar opposite worldview to science in that it favours the subjective over the objective.

      Contemporary social justice warriors take the view that there are a billion genders and a spectrum of sexes; that people can be born in the wrong body; that all white people are racist; and god knows what else. They offer zero empirical evidence for these positions, beyond a (deliberate) misunderstanding of science, and they demand that everyone kow-tow to their whacky beliefs without any discussion. If you ask questions or hold wrongthinking views, you are vilified and the mob demands that you lose your job.

      This delusional thinking is prominent in the SNP and the Greens. There is no way I am going to vote for that, and I don’t want it for my country.

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’d have hope folk might have twigged to the fact that I’m trying to re-connect with critical social justice theory and practice.

      The Absence of a Gender Justice Framework
      in Social Justice Organizing

      Background

      This working paper examines whether and how a “gender lens” is incorporated into the work of social justice organizations, and the consequences for those organizations and the social justice movement when it is not. It is based on interviews with eleven social justice leaders conducted in February and March 2008.

      Two things motivated this project. First of all, I wanted to follow up on the work of the New Women’s Movement Initiative.1 That initiative brought together dozens of feminist leaders over the course of 2½ years for an extended conversation about how to heal the fissures within the feminist movement, how to find common ground, and how to revitalize the women’s movement.

      For the most part, participants in the New Women’s Movement Initiative agreed that the women’s movement was not mobilizing new constituencies or maximizing it’s potential as an agent of social change. Though much of the energy of the initiative devolved down to the business of who would be at the receiving end of whatever funding streams might be on tap, the New Women’s Movement Initiative did surface some significant insights and areas of consensus along the way.

      Those most relevant to this work are:

      ? The need to promote the principles and values of social justice feminism [See Appendix].

      ? The impact of the generational transition underway in the women’s movement, and the power and continuity issues that transition raises.

      ? The need to engage broader constituencies with issues of women’s human rights and gender justice.

      http://www.cew.umich.edu/PDFs/BurnhamFinalProject.pdf

    85. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dave M
      Sorry but I don’t agree. Those punting a rejection of biological reality, simply lack adequate understanding of how to achieve social justice. Or are politically motivated to dis-empower women.

      Critical Horizons, A Journal of Philosophy and Social Theory, Volume 20, 2019 – Issue 2: Special Issue: Iris Marion Young and Responsibility
      Global Gender Justice: Human Rights and Political Responsibility

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14409917.2019.1596212

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dave M
      Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was simply disagreeing with your suggestion that my perspective is out-of=date.

    87. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon’s weekend tweet topics are covid, covid, Nicola Benedetti, covid, sports result, covid, book recommendation, covid, covid…..

      Forget power grab, treaty trashing or indy as hot topics.

    88. ahundredthidiot says:

      Professor Richard Ennos has given an interview to Anna Brees on YT.

      I would recommend. Unless you have a SARS2 agenda of course, in which case, just stay in bed and wet yourself again.

    89. Robert Graham says:

      o/t
      Lady Muck on LBC 9:00 pm

      A Tory party political broadcast

      All big mouths welcome to a Scot denigrating Scot party , what was it she said something about being put in corner and kept away from the valuables sounds about right from that scabby Tory who has done a complete publicly visible 360 degree on Johnston and the EU almost as many turns as Galloway but just as twisted and devious a Face for every occasion , A True Gem

    90. mike cassidy says:

      Maggie c 4.07

      The interesting thing about those board quotas

      There’s nothing about people who claim to be non-binary.

      By their own standards

      That is seriously discriminatory

    91. CameronB Brodie says:

      The GRA amendments couldn’t be more discriminatory against women, if they tried. The proposals are extremely regressive in nature and reflect a rejection of Natural law in British constitutional practice. The Scottish government’s actions will have harmful repercussions around the world, as they appear in-step with English Torydum’s assault on liberal democracy.

      Women’s Human Rights
      https://www.globalfundforwomen.org/womens-human-rights/

    92. Helen Yates says:

      How fortunate for the fascists that a “killer” virus came along just in time to get us all under control.

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      I assume the GRA proposals have the full support of the Lord Advocate.

      Law, Cognition, and Identity

      I. UNDERSTANDING LAW AND SOCIAL IDENTITY: THE NEED FOR A
      SOCIAL COGNITIVE TURN

      There is a growing literature within sociolegal research regarding the constitutive nature of law.’ This literature primarily has been concerned with demonstrating that legal institutions constitute aspects of social life, including, at times, aspects of human social identity.2 The constitutive influence of law becomes most obvious when the legal system under scrutiny exhibits an overtly differentiated form of citizenship, such as in ancient Athens, feudal Europe, or even the pre-Civil War United States. 3

      In these societies, law served to embed multiple privileged and subordinate social and political statuses, differentiated according to characteristics such as lineage, caste, and race. As a result, one’s status as citizen, serf, or slave served not only as a social but also as a legal position, grounded not merely in social relations but also entrenched in, and reinforced by, the law itself….

      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/235288869.pdf

    94. C Griffiths says:

      I don’t see the problem with the new law Stu. This “being attracted to a different sex” rather than the old “opposite sex” is just splitting hairs. It means basically the same thing but more progressive & inclusive of trans rights.

    95. ahundredthidiot says:

      paedophiles have no problem with the new law.

      They saw what happened in California under their LGBTQ law (SB145) and thought, what a great idea, getting away with raping a child and not being placed on the sex offenders register.

      They just have to make sure the judge is a paedo as well. and of course, the woke democrats will make sure of that by appointment.

      GRA here, will eventually lead to legalising paedophilia.

    96. Republicofscotland says:

      Constitutional expert wars Tory power grab will make Holyrood redundant

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18717136.brexit-expert-warns-scottish-nhs-sold-off-tory-power-grab/

      Yes bikers roll through the town of Coldstream, where Tory council jobsworthy had Saltires removed from high street.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18717883.flags-aloft-yes-bikers-ride-town-tory-council-took-saltires/

    97. Fireproofjim says:

      Witchy
      You claim Nicola said in an interview that someone’s child would be taken away from him if he disagreed with the new woke politcs.
      I do not believe you. That is nonsense.
      Where is your source?

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      In order to support social justice, the law needs to be post-foundational in nature. This enables a respect for Natural law and “difference”, so post-foundational law has the potential to be universal and impartial. The GRA amendments are anti-foundational in nature, so are detached from Natural law and critical reason.

      I assume they have the full support of the Lord Advocate.

      Natural Law

      Our work is based on the assumption that law is not a mere emanation of the human will (be it the will of a tyrannical individual or, in the case of a democratically constituted society, of the majority of the electorate or the its elected representatives), but that, in a higher sense, it has an independent existence of its own.

      There is a Natural Law, which human reason can discern and understand, but which human will cannot alter. This Natural Law remains the same at all times and in all places, and it is pre-existent to all written legislation. Indeed, it is the task and purpose of all positive legislation to transpose and enforce Natural Law in a way that adapts to the specific needs and circumstances of a given society at a given time. A positive law that stands in contradiction to the precepts of Natural Law has no legitimacy, and nobody is morally bound by it.

      Although some want to dismiss this as some kind of ‘religious belief’, Natural Law is in actual fact not the tenet of a particular religion. It is true that Christianity, which has formed and impregnated Western culture, has always asserted the existence of a Natural Law – but the same is true of Islam and other religions.

      That the age of enlightenment believed in Natural Law becomes apparent when one reads the Virginia Bill of rights of 1776, or the Déclaration des droits de l’homme et du citoyen (adopted by the French National Assembly in 1789).[1] More importantly, it is easy to demonstrate that already in antiquity, at a time that predates Christianity by several centuries, the existence of Natural Law was generally recognized.

      Today Natural Law is in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand, there is an increasing awareness among the sanior pars of politicians and scholars that Natural Law exists, and that respect for it is the pre-condition for a just social order. At the same time, many supporters of the Cultural Revolution aggressively deny the existence of such a Natural Law: they assert, for example, that it is not possible for the human mind to discern any objectively “correct” way of living one’s sexuality, or that it is not possible to determine the exact moment in which a human being becomes a “person” that is entitled to human rights.

      In other words, the new legal order that they promote is based on subjectivism, on a rejection of rational discourse, and on the replacement of reason by will. But while this abandonment of reason has become the trademark of contemporary law-making in general, reaching far beyond the issues discussed in this paper, it can nevertheless be observed that even the supporters of the Cultural Revolution will not fail, whenever it seems suitable to them, to bring forward arguments that imply the existence of Natural Law (albeit, as we contend, of a distorted and falsified Natural Law).

      Wherever positive law provides no support for their claims, they seek to convince the public that the “self-determination” of women wishing to abort their children or the “equality” of gay couples wishing to “marry” are innate natural rights that must, at last, be recognized by law-makers and society at large. Without implying the existence of some kind of Natural Law, such arguments would not be possible….

      https://agendaeurope.wordpress.com/natural-law/

    99. crazycat says:

      @ C Griffiths

      This “being attracted to a different sex” rather than the old “opposite sex” is just splitting hairs.

      No, it isn’t. They explicitly state that there are more than 2 sexes.

      That is science-denying nonsense, and in no way “progressive”.

    100. ahundredthidiot says:

      I see we have the force with us now, well, well, indyref2 must be in the bag.

      oh shit, forgot, we have NS at the helm.

    101. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B 3.56: thanks for taking the trouble of summarising precisely why These Types are not interested in rational debate and try to close it down at every opportunity.

      Since we’re in unusual Godwin’s Law territory on Wings (whether involving right or left fascism), I remember accounts of the ordinary people of 40s Germany and Stalin’s USSR who spookily gave the same answers when confronted with state atrocities against their kind, “If only The Great Leader knew!” the poor shmucks would complain.

      It would be nice to know we’re not headed down the same metaphorical road…….

      As Granny used to say after drawing on her cutty pipe and spitting in the grate, “I hae ma doots, laddie!”

    102. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      Neither yourself or Ian are trained to critique critical social theory. That piece that Ian posted was simply an attack on social science.

    103. Dan says:

      Multiple sexes? This is all getting a little too confusing and ambiguous for a country that desperately needs to promote more procreation to maintain a viable society.
      A situation compounded for some by being held in lockdown and thus restricting peoples’ ability to form relationships.

      Wonder what the birth rates will look like over the next year or so. Will there be a sharp rise 9 months on from the initial lockdown furloughed fuckfest, leading on to a diminishing number once the poverty hit, both in monetary and eligible Euro partners kicks in once we’re out the EU.

    104. CameronB Brodie says:

      Natural law can be misused, so it’s important to have an holistic approach to justice.

      Modernisation, National Identity and Legal Instrumentalism (Vol. II: Public Law)

      Nazi Law as Pure Instrument: Natural Law, (Extra-)Legal Terror, and the Neglect of Ideology
      https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004417359/BP000010.xml

    105. ahundredthidiot says:

      on YT

      ‘I challenge the Government to back up their belief there will be a second wave’

      Dr Mike Yeadon – basically there will be no second wave and SARS2 is all over.

      And for info, false positives are STILL being used as ‘positives’ when SG are talking cases – just think about that for a second that is their rationale for new lockdown measures.

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      I assume the Lord Advocate isn’t a Nazi, though he does appear to support excessive legal instrumentalism.

      Recherches en psychanalyse 2010/2 (n° 10), pages 286a à 295a
      Natural law and “heteronormativity”

      https://www.cairn.info/revue-recherches-en-psychanalyse-2010-2-page-286a.html

    107. Tinto Chiel says:

      @CBB 7.20: in your patronising opinion and how would you know anything about my “training”? As if a much-vaunted qualification in Town Planning gives you the right to link to irrelevant wodges of “scientific” papers. If they are representative of what you call “social science” than God help us from most of them.

      I’ll comment when and where I like, thanks.

      This and the previous thread benefited from your relative absence in my opinion. I know you are an intelligent guy who can conduct a social converation because we’ve met so come out from behind that pseudo-scientific cloaking device you use and just be yourself. Maybe btl would be the better for it.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland legal officers have thoroughly let Scots down, by failing to resist the excessive legal instrumentalism of Brexit.

      Brexit and the Common Law Constitution

      Abstract

      This article considers the implications that Brexit holds for the UK’s “common law constitution” – the body of principles
      and norms that the courts have developed in case law on EU membership, fundamental rights, and devolution. Focusing
      on the Supreme Court’s ruling in Miller, it argues that Brexit may have paradoxical effects within the case law.

      These start with the fact that the Supreme Court rationalised EU withdrawal in terms of Parliamentary sovereignty, but in a manner that perhaps also casts doubt on the utility of distinctions between “internal” and “external” law. However, this reliance on Parliamentary sovereignty as UK law’s “rule of recognition” is seen as more problematic in the context of rights and devolution, where the article notes a number of tensions in the law.

      In relation to rights, these are a result of an apparent
      retreat from a line of case law that had previously indicated that the courts might impose substantive limits on the powers
      of the Westminster Parliament. The tensions around devolution are a result of the subordinate role that the rule of
      recognition accords to devolved institutions and its inability to accommodate any conception of “divided sovereignty”.

      Key words
      Brexit; Supreme Court; common law constitution; Parliamentary sovereignty; rights; devolution.

      https://pure.qub.ac.uk/files/148795936/The_Common_Law_Constitution_final_version_April_2018.pdf

    109. leither says:

      love yer links cam

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      I know my shit in a way that neither yourself or Ian do. You have no idea of the contents of my training, yet you appear happy to disparage it. So of anyone is showing a patronising lack of respect, it’s yourself.

    111. PacMan says:

      C Griffiths says: 13 September, 2020 at 6:35 pm

      I don’t see the problem with the new law Stu. This “being attracted to a different sex” rather than the old “opposite sex” is just splitting hairs. It means basically the same thing but more progressive & inclusive of trans rights.

      As another poster mentioned, it isn’t splitting hairs.

      Leaving out the biological argument, this argument could be stopped dead in it’s track if it defined trans-men as trans-men and trans-woman as trans-woman rather than men or woman. If there are many types of sex and gender than what difference would two more make?

      It isn’t going to happen because it would be too much of a legal headache and would be rejected by the main population. However, it is being put through the backdoor by redefining woman, gay people and now it seems heterosexuality which can’t be defined other than it’s biological sense.

      I’m not sure how lessening the rights of a lot of groups for the sake of one group when there is alternatives isn’t inclusive or progressive.

    112. PacMan says:

      ahundredthidiot says: 13 September, 2020 at 7:42 pm

      And for info, false positives are STILL being used as ‘positives’ when SG are talking cases – just think about that for a second that is their rationale for new lockdown measures.

      Sigh.

      This isn’t specific to the Scottish Government. Every other country is using the same test and there is no way of telling which is false positives because the test used isn’t very good.

      As I mentioned, there needs to be more accurate forms of testing rather than the current one which is picking up dead virus particles in people who had been previously infected.

    113. Willie says:

      Lorenzo @ 12.55 says Nacht Und Nabel is next in the playbook and he’s not wrong on that.

      Trade agreements under consideration already make provision for secret courts where organisations, like the NHS could be taken to court in secret and then be ordered to pay millions to a transnational corporate entity.

      Or trials with secret witnesses. ( Salmond)

      Or trials without a jury ( Murray )

      Or the denial of information to Parliament ( Salmond again)

      Or secret voting in the NEC ( SNP )

      Or the restriction of right to FOI information ( COVID need )

      Or the illegal abuse of the Hostile Environment

      Or the removal of powers from a parliament the settled will of the Scottish people.

      Or the disregard of the sacred vow.

      Or the repudiation of the Good Friday Agreement.

      Yes folks a nigh5 and fog decree would not even be a blink to this government. In fact it is a given.

      Internment, Diplocck Courts, the voice of an actor, the death squads primed as counter gangs by the military. It all coming and we await it on our humble knees.

      Oh Bessts of Scotland, can we not lift up our vision!

    114. WT says:

      The key part of the email dated September 1st are the closing two sentences NOT the phrase highlighted. It is clear that the email author is NOT intending to change things.

      The email also points out that EN/STA complied with Press for Change’s lobbying over the interchangeability of terms in Section 9 to prevent discrimination in “terms of their sex” which, by its own logic, recognises the difference between the two terms gender and sex. The author also says that they have been working with the NRS and ONS on this. It is obvious that there is no way that the terms sex and gender will be merged for the national census – I know you do not like Nicola Sturgeon (neither do I) but she must be very powerful indeed to be able to overcome and control the United Kingdom’s Office for National Statistics.

      This is smoke – you create smoke with a couple of flashes to inflame your readers. You have done this on purpose as you have done on other occasions on other matters to inflame the regulars on your ‘forum’ and to create an on-going narrative to make a genuine issue look like a conspiracy. Even if such crap legislation was presented it would be knocked on the head at the first base. That’s what parliament is for. You know this.

      Sometimes you talk of a cabal or infiltrators within the SNP, but by saying this you recognise that the majority (non-cabal) of the SNP representatives wouldn’t give this the time of day. Nor would opposition parties.

      The GRA 2004 the email refers to is a UK Act which Scottish Legislation is in consort with. 2004 is interesting also as that was the year that Alec Salmond (who I do like) was re-elected leader of the party not Sturgeon.

      I completely agree with keeping the the division between the biological term ‘sex’ and the sociological term ‘gender’ – and so does the writer of this email. The way this has been presented here is just as dishonest as the way the state broadcaster often behaves… and again, you know this.

      For the record I do not agree with much of the GRA, I don’t think a man who changes sex is the same as a woman, he is after all, by his own admission, transgender. I also don’t agree with mis-representing or mis-using factual information to mis-inform – it just isn’t right.

      You are better than this

      To Quote:
      “The Registrar General for Scotland maintains a confidential link between the original (true) birth record and the (changed) record in the Gender Recognition Register”. Brackets are my additions for clarity.

    115. mr thms says:

      This is an interesting article about a German magazine first published ninety years ago called ‘The Third Sex’. It was the world’s first magazine devoted to trans issues.

      https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/01/15/a-lost-piece-of-trans-history/

    116. Beaker says:

      @MaggieC says:
      13 September, 2020 at 4:07 pm
      “So if it’s to be 50/50 representation what’s to stop 6 men declaring that they are transwoman and being elected onto the board and then you end up with 100 % MEN on the board .”

      Grant Costello. the candidate to replace Linda Fabiani, is retweeting Mr Murrel, Mr Robertson, Mr Blackford, Mr Smith…

      He’s been asked the following:
      “Has he signed the “SNP’s Women’s pledge”
      “Explain his role as Digital Manager”
      “What he is doing to mitigate Brexit”
      “What is definition of a woman”
      “What he has achieved during the pandemic”
      “Do you believe transwomen are women?”

      To all of the above (and more, some from SNP supporters) absolutely no response. When asked why he won’t respond – no response. And this guy wants to represent his community?

      One person has gone as far to describe him as “another easily controlled, inexperienced NS/Murrell acolyte”, and another suggesting that he “couldn’t launch a stick in the air”.

      This is what we are going to get next May, repeated across Scotland. Young Sturgeon loyalists, with no practical experience but run through the SNP factory.

    117. CameronB Brodie says:

      WT
      “I know you do not like Nicola Sturgeon (neither do I) but she must be very powerful indeed to be able to overcome and control the United Kingdom’s Office for National Statistics.”

      The ONS recommends the biological definition of sex, and acknowledges the difference between sex and gender. So why is the Scottish civil service prevented from following a gender-critical approach to law and public policy?

    118. ronnie anderson says:

      Tinto Chiel 7.44 Many Wingers have made the same appeal/comment as you sadly to no availe no town planner needed that amount of information to sit at a draughtboard .
      Take care .

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      ronnie anderson
      Town planners draw plans, but they need to have a critical understanding of how to support justice through the law. I was trained to support inclusive, sustainable, social practice, which means I have an holistic approach to law and democracy. I really don’t mean to upset folk, but you surely can’t object to me trying to support the rule-of-law?

    120. Stan Broadwood says:

      The only input Sturgeon wants from ANYBODY at the moment is their money.

      Oh, and a little bit of SNP campaigning wouldn’t go a miss.

      Well Sturgeon, you will receive neither from me, and as for your little Covid19 app,,, you can shove it right up your jacksey.

      Until I see positive signs coming from you regarding Scottish Independence, then my input, like yours, will be zero.

    121. The Johnson thing is more like the Trump situation, where people become numb to madness, pumped at them by the media for advertising revenue. I must admit, seeing this country retreat into the dark anti-intellectual waters of American-minted middle-class extremism and mental illness has been extremely painful, and is only getting worse. A total tragedy.

    122. Graham says:

      For the avoidance of doubt, binary asteroid has nothing to do with their composition but means simply an asteroid whose mass consists not of just one lump (more or less roughly-rounded usually) – which might be termed a unitary asteroid, I suppose –

      but rather consists of two such rough lumps, fused, in a sort of dumbbell or snowman shape. Several are known. The two lumps may be approximately equal, or unequal, in size/volume/mass.

      I suppose there could also be tertiary/ternary/trinary asteroids of 3 lumps; quaternary asteroids of 4 lumps; and so on up, but I am not aware of any such having been found yet.

    123. Tinto Chiel says:

      I know Ronnie. Good to hear from you and the same to you with Goves on. One last try….

      “Tinto Chiel
      I know my shit in a way that neither yourself or Ian do.”

      Yes, keep believing that, Cameron: you have no way of knowing what either of us knows about anything but carry on if it makes you feel any better, just don’t expect anyone to take any notice.

      So many well-disposed Wingers have tried to gently suggest you change your tack but you plough on regardless.

      Sail on, Captain Ahab…..

    124. Ottomanboi says:

      Project fear Blurb for the BBC tv program Extinction: The Facts.

      [In 2017, Blue Planet II caused an instant change of behaviour for many, when we saw what plastic does to the oceans. It’s to be hoped, desperately, that this film will be a similar landmark. David Attenborough introduces a pithy deconstruction of how various human misdeeds — deforestation, poaching, pollution, overfishing, climate change — have left us in a dire emergency. Of the eight million species of plants, animals and insects on Earth, one million are at risk of extinction.

      The scale of the problem is hard to comprehend, but the expert contributors here clearly explain the individual crises that form a terrifying whole. We’re unequivocally told that rampant consumption has got us here, and that the pause enforced by Covid-19 is an opportunity for change. If we don’t act, further pandemics could be just one of the awful consequences.]
      Humans are total shit implies BBC darling old boy Attenborough.
      All sounds like old time hell fire and damnation religion.
      Dave the redeemer, Greta his handmaid, Extinction Rebellion his missionaries.

      Btw Gaia is such a loving mother:
      https://humanoriginproject.com/mass-extinctions-prehistoric-ages/

    125. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      I’m pretty sure you’ve not been trained in critical legal theory, or understand critical realism, or have knowledge of post-positivist social science, or stand-point epistemology, or feminist jurisprudence. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

      Feminist Legal Epistemology
      http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1678&context=facpub

    126. leither says:

      I know my shit……. I know youre shit too cam, keep up the good work

    127. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      If only Cameron the comment hog had a friend who could stage an intervention?

      Or at least do us all a favour and delete his apparently bottomless archive of randomly generated secondary sources.

    128. Dan says:

      @CamBB

      Merely an observation but I’ll point out that your being so critical and dismissive of other posters’ knowledge and lived experiences rather reeks of intolerance to anything other than your own outlook.
      There’s value in absorbing what other people have to say so that you can broaden your own awareness in how to cater for and deal with people.
      You’re punting out more links than a fuckin’ sausage factory when you are capable of writing concise well made points of your own.
      Just sayin…. 🙂

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Why are you attacking someone who supports democracy and the rule-of-law, through scientific reason?

      ——-

      I’m very, very rusty, but epistemology was a significant part of my training, i.e. how to establish which facts are true, from those that are simply cultural beliefs.

      Human Rights and Human Well-Being
      Epistemological Foundations for Human Rights

      https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195173482.001.0001/acprof-9780195173482-chapter-7

    130. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Andy Ellis: oh, yes, and right on cue too, apparently. I was just waiting for the faux ami to appear.

      “I’m pretty sure you’ve not been trained in critical legal theory, or understand critical realism, or have knowledge of post-positivist social science, or stand-point epistemology, or feminist jurisprudence. Please correct me if I’m wrong.”

      Quite. Thankfully, I don’t give a flying fruitbat for your meaningless, periphrastic hobgoblins but please keep posting your havers. Someone somewhere in the universe may derive some benefit.

      Big Clue: leither is not your friend, seriously.

    131. Stoker says:

      CameronB Brodie wrote on 13 September, 2020 at 5:13 pm:

      “I’d have hope folk might have twigged to the fact that I’m trying to re-connect with critical social justice theory and practice.”

      No, what you’re doing is saturating thread after thread with material most of us don’t read and by the looks of things most of us aren’t interested in.

      What you’re doing is also extremely selfish, constantly pushing other folks’ comments further up thread. I know I’m not the only one who now comes on to WOS and looks at the “latest comments” list, sees your name taking up half the list, then just clearing off again.

      You are trolling and destroying any decent opportunities of conversation continuity and folk are missing out on some good informative material from others as you seek to dominate every single thread.

      Your actions deter others from posting. You’re also constantly baiting other Wingers AND would be trolls, despite the rules clearly stating not to. To inform his nibs if you think someone is a troll and he will make that decision.

      I’m now fully convinced these actions of yours are very deliberate so you may dominate, and ruin, the threads. And I even suspect at least one of those you appear to argue with is your sockpuppet.

      You’ll either heed what some of us are saying to you or you’ll continue to arrogantly carry on regardless being good for the post count only. Either way your current strategy is not a good look.

    132. Andy Ellis says:

      @CBB

      Because you’re spamming BTL comments with screeds of secondary sources, ill-aimed and frequently of no or only tangential relevance to what is being discussed. It patently doesn’t matter how many people ask you to desist from your monomania, you simply have no self control.

      When called out on your idiocy, you become snide and abusive. Why Stu puts up with your input God only knows. It’s making the BTL experience here much less attractive. From comments earlier, some people here seem to know you and have met you: even they have asked you to desist, yet like a dog returning to it’s vomit you keep coming back.

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      Perhaps, but I’m just getting pissed of folk who would probably tell their dentist how to do their job. The links are intended to support democratic reason, and I’m simply to rusty to put it into words myself. Anyway, I think MIT and Oxbridge are more likely to be believed than some random on t’internet stroking their beliefs. That’s what critical educational theory suggests anyway.

    134. leither says:

      leither is not your friend

      🙁 sobs uncontrollably

      i love yer links cam

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      re. secondary sources.

      Is that not what enables you to learn?

      re, ill-aimed and frequently of no or only tangential relevance to what is being discussed.

      In your opinion, which is all you have to offer, apparently.

      re. It patently doesn’t matter how many people ask you to desist from your monomania, you simply have no self control.

      No it doesn’t matter how many folk object to education, which appears to include yourself.

      re. When called out on your idiocy, you become snide and abusive

      I’ve little time for fannies.

      re. Why Stu puts up with your input God only knows. It’s making the BTL experience here much less attractive.

      He does, so suck it up.

      re. From comments earlier, some people here seem to know you and have met you: even they have asked you to desist, yet like a dog returning to it’s vomit you keep coming back.

      You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

    136. Tinto Chiel says:

      “leither is not your friend

      ? sobs uncontrollably

      i love yer links cam”

      Thanks for making my point. You remind me strongly of someone The Rev eventually grew tired of, but you used to snigger more, IIRC.

    137. leither says:

      the cows are coming home to roost….

    138. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stoker
      How the hell is trying to support democracy selfish or destructive?

      Truth, Reason and Justice: Epistemology and Politics in Evidence Discourse
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1468-2230.1994.tb01971.x

    139. iain mhor says:

      @Frank Gillougly 2:07pm

      Nice catch.
      His Myth of Sisyphus would be more relevant for the rest of us, perhaps – recognition of the absurdity.
      I did laugh at a hashtag I saw recently #NLM 😀

    140. robertknight says:

      In my opinion the SNP and their biology deniers are hell bent on turning this country into a backwater of lunacy, all to cater for the less than 1% who decide they’d prefer to try their hand at being a gender other than that which they were born.

      If I state this opinion 6 months from now I’ll be classed as a transphobic peddler of hate speech and off to gaol I’ll go.

      Welcome to Sturgeon’s Brave New Wold!

    141. Beaker says:

      Can everybody just chillax?

      Trying to fit in with the “alternative” crowd, although where I live most people generally tell you in more direct terms 🙂

    142. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      It’s time to start listening when it’s clear that no-one is listening to you.

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I’m coming to that conclusion myself, though that does mean I’ll no longer be able to offer my support. I’ve tried my best but it’s apparent folk simply want to believe what they believe. So sad.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      It would be interesting to see how many females would want to exclude me. 😉

    145. jfngw says:

      Well at least I suppose Ian Blackford has a new catchphrase now ‘Scotland will not be dragged into the UK Single Market against its will’.

      The secret of success is never keep a catchphrase for too long as the public tire of it, Blackford hopes to keep going for as long as Bruce Forsyth.

    146. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I don’t speak for anyone but I’m sure the problem is your overuse of irrelevant links. I enjoy your own comments which are often very perceptive.

    147. holymacmoses says:

      It’s dangerous to go down the road of ‘splitting hairs ‘ when it comes to meaning: particularly when it comes to the law.
      The law is getting into very muddy waters these days.
      Words play on a slippery slope and if they get to the bottom of the slide then all true meaning may be lost.

    148. leither says:

      i want to have yer children cam…..

    149. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      Thanks. I don’t think I posted many “irrelevant” links, as this stuff is all inter-connected.

      Cognitive Agendas and Legal Epistemology
      https://scholarworks.uark.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1145&context=etd

    150. kapelmeister says:

      jfngw @9:54 pm

      Blackford doesn’t know how to Play His Cards Right.

    151. Andy Ellis says:

      10.05pm

      “I don’t think I posted many “irrelevant” links” says he posting another irrelevant link.

      Good grief.

    152. I’m quite looking forward to when the SNP, in their America-copying zeal, start wanting to stop the teaching of history. This has been recently recommended in the horrible WASP Chicago suburb of Evanston (I lived there for six months, and ended up saving an old man’s life; click my name if you want to read what I wrote aboot it). Cos, you know, historically, there are only two sexes, but if you ban all old history you can just make up whatever new shite you feel like. Which is clearly what’s going on, in some ways, and where the Hell the Western world is horribly headed.

      https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-area-leaders-call-for-illinois-to-eliminate-history-classes/2315752/?fbclid=IwAR1ATFE6uD-S3RptDA9nY7E9v5OiQvY-HtM-G-_z7NEyhR9kfUmD2BB_vL8

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Are you seriously suggesting legal epistemology is of no relevance to the debate? If so, then you have a rather limited appreciation of how to support democracy,

      VIRGINIA LAW REVIEW
      VOLUME 87 DECEMBER 2001 NUMBER 8
      NATURALIZED EPISTEMOLOGY AND THE LAW OF
      EVIDENCE

      https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2566&context=journal_articles

    154. kapelmeister says:

      WRYC @10:14 pm

      Wow. The wokies will be organising book bonfires next.

    155. ‘kapelmeister says:
      13 September, 2020 at 10:29 pm
      WRYC @10:14 pm

      Wow. The wokies will be organising book bonfires next.’

      Human barbecues, more like it! Chuckling. The irony of it is that Evanston is a really horrible, ultra-PC enclave, full of rich people. They go out of their way to show how supposedly non-racist they are. Of course, it’s always the racists who want to volubly show-and-tell how non-racist they supposedly are; everybody else just gets on with their lives. And this is how they get paid back for their middle-class self-loathing self-flagellating. Fascinatingly appalling.

    156. Stan Broadwood says:

      Professor Lynda Fauld, Edinburgh university has to have the most annoying accent on the telly at the moment.

      She is meant to be some kind of Covid19 advisor and friend of the BBC in Scotland.

      Her accent is a mix of America, English and Scottish combined.

      Sounds like a right stuck up Tory.

    157. iain mhor says:

      Had a re-read at that email a couple of times and have great difficulty parsing the intent. The position seems to be:

      Sex is a spectrum
      Using Sex and Gender interchangably however is confusing.
      Not allowing for Sex to be defined as a spectrum in law, is potentially harmful – where Gender is already defined as a spectrum and Sex is not.
      Clarity is required in order to educate the public.
      How do we achieve that.

      This is a dissonnace and the aims are mutually exclusive.
      Pondering how anyone can solve such a conundrum (far less contemplate it) I come to a conclusion; that it can only really be done by expunging one of the terms entirely and the remainder absorbs the other’s defintion/s.

      Whether it’s the abolition of Sex, or Gender – take your pick – I would imagine ‘Gender’ would be for the chop and the term Sex to encompass Gender definitions – then existing laws need not require change.

      One can identify as a Sex (on whatever woo-woo spectrum) that is your Sex. It may require pushing a compromise on transgenders, to stipilate a biological Sex at Birth (as recorded) where required for actual sane reasons; but otherwise leaves room in legislation to accept one’s Sex as self defined.

      I do not know – perhaps even the acknowledgement of a biological ‘Dead Sex (Dead name) is a howlingly atavistic anathema to the ‘whatever they are called’ and it is precisely this which they are seeking to extirpate.

      Somewhere along the line though, it has to be an acknowledged compromise – if only from a biological viewpoint – redifining and changing gametes on a whim, just cannot be done.

      I suppose the phrase Biological Sex as a term (Dead Sexing?) could be extirpated in favour of ‘Gamete’ ?
      So, I dunno what you’d eventually see on any paperwork –
      (Sex) Female (Gamete) XY…

      So, pfff… for general legislation it would just be ‘Sex’ Where that will leave all the sociatal binary remnants, from check boxes, to toilets and declension in the world’s languages – I have absolutely no idea.

      Thankfully it is not my problem, because I identify as no longer giving a fuck.

      tl;dr The email means – We need to kill a word.

    158. ‘iain mhor says:
      13 September, 2020 at 10:40 pm
      Had a re-read at that email a couple of times and have great difficulty parsing the intent.’

      That is intentional. It’s illogical madness that relies on sane people to make a religious-like leap of faith into a parallel universe, where black is white and day is night. Utter madness and nonsense.

    159. ahundredthidiot says:

      It’s like having to listen to someone elses screaming baby.

      …..You know of what I speak, Gandalph…..

    160. Witchy says:

      @Fireproofjim

      Shame you don’t believe me, or think I am telling lies.
      Honesty is a highly prized commodity and severely lacking in modern public life. But I judge honesty to be an integral component in my life, and I loathe liars.
      Yes, I was shocked when I saw the clip.
      It must still be kicking around somewhere on the t’internet..so when you come across it, maybe a public apology would suffice.

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      The sex classes of “male” and “female” are a reflection on human biology, which is indeed a spectrum. That’s why you get butch women and effeminate men. On the other hand, gender is a social construct defined through culture. So by denying an individual’s sex is biologically grounded, and is instead a product of an individual’s psychology, the Scottish government is on the brink of turning Scots law into a tool of authoritarian totalitarianism. The law needs to be rational in order to support justice and democracy.

      Frontiers in Psychology., 18 June 2014
      Rationality: a social-epistemology perspective

      https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00581/full

    162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “If only people could apply this timely article to dangerous covid 19 legislation.
      Boris Johnson wants to bring in mandatory daily testing and forced vaccinations.”

      I’m not approving all these comments because none of them contain a shred of evidence for their claims.

    163. HandandShrimp says:

      Given we have poisoned ourselves with plastics and God knows what else, it is perhaps not surprising that there has been blurring of genders. The average tea bag releases billions of microplastic particles into the cup as one everyday example there are numerous other sources and chemical agents

      I’m weary of the woke entryist into politics but I doubt it will go away. I’m coming to the conclusion that there probably is an increasing gender blurring and that it is something we are doing to ourselves and to the fauna of the planet. The continuum of gender may have something of the evangelist deal of a political cause but I think the underlying driver is inadvertent biological tinkering.

      Just a thought,I have no axe to grind on the matter nor am I selling any remedy.

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      HandandShrimp
      But you are confusing the issue by describing radical trans activists as woke.

    165. Mike d says:

      Unfortunately once Scotland has been subsumned and holyrood abolished, The only thing that sadly will free Scotland is a Scottish canary wharf. No country will want to do trade deals with a uk torn apart by political and civil disorder.

    166. HandandShrimp says:

      CBB

      Perhaps,

      …if only I cared. The whole issue induces stupefying inertia in me.

    167. CameronB Brodie says:

      HandandShrimp
      We wouldn’t be in this situation if the party’s management weren’t supporting it. Which means it’s self-inflicted damage.

      Œconomia, 9-1 | 2019
      Equality, Recognition and Social Justice: A Hegelian Perspective Announcing Amartya Sen

      https://journals.openedition.org/oeconomia/5178?lang=en

    168. Hatuey says:

      She’s turned us all into those mangled things Bacon painted ‘at the base of the crucifixion’. https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/bacon-three-studies-for-figures-at-the-base-of-a-crucifixion-n06171

      The body of Scottish independence hanging lifeless above from a carefully crafted cross.

    169. cirsium says:

      @WRYC, 10.45

      Utter madness and nonsense

      It may be nonsense but it is not madness. Destroying the meaning of words causes confusion since human beings use words to think. People who can’t think straight are easily frightened and controlled.

    170. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T
      If you live in Scotland at present you are a Sovereign Citizen of Scotland and also European Citizen. If you live in England you are a Subject of England and also a European Citizen.

      However after Independence those wishing to retain English (Brit) passports would end up with Ex-Pat status exactly the same as Ex-Pats in Spain. Now this is where it gets tricky as OAP pensions are likely to rise in line to at least the average EU pensions.

      In the future ex-pats in Spain will still recieve the derisory UK one. This makes for a wee quandary for thousands of English (Brit) pensioners living in Scotland to have a real think about whether to cross the burning bridge in an Independent Scotland and change to a Scottish Passport and a Scottish OAP Pension and properly integrate into Scotland!

      BTW this will also apply to Health Care same as the Expats in Spain, time to get the wallet out!

      One to think about, eh ?

    171. A Person says:

      On Twitter (I know, I know, we all have our bad habits) Tory Times columnist Iain Martin has pointed out that many of those going “independence is inevitable in the next couple of years” are being ridiculous because they are also “asking” Johnson to be “allowed” to have one and there’s no way he’s going to do that. Now, obviously the Rev has pointed this out before.

      Who has come along to argue with Martin? Why, the honourable member for North Perthshire. He says that if Johnson refuses a referendum, then support for Yes will grow, and then Johnson “will be taking on the principle of democracy itself”.

      Which as far as I can see is a load of meaningless words which essentially prove Martin’s point…

    172. Hatuey says:

      Boring and short as this sentence may be, it’s much more interesting and informative than all of the many things that CameronB Brodie has typed in his or her whole life.

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hatuey
      Sure your not just a bit narrow minded and hostile to ethical rationalism? Are you the Lord Advocate?

      International Journal of Constitutional Law, Volume 5, Issue 3, July 2007, Pages 507–525
      Women’s rights under international human rights treaties: Issues of r4pe, domestic slavery, abortion, and domestic violence

      Abstract

      Most contemporary constitutions prohibit discrimination based on gender. Yet, as feminist legal scholars have shown, even a constitutional principle of nondiscrimination is not sufficient by itself to ensure women’s de facto equality.1 These scholars advocate applying a gendered perspective to constitutional law so as to adapt it to the specific situation of women.2

      In recent years, universal and regional human rights bodies have begun to employ this approach in connection with human rights treaties, interpreting them in light of the special threats posed to women’s human rights. Such interpretations lend themselves to transposition into national constitutional law (in some if not all cases) and, in legal systems that have formally incorporated public international law, such transpositions may even be obligatory.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/5/3/507/647388

    174. twathater says:

      I see the Cat litter and Me Bungo Pony (david caledonia) have had a wee day off from WGD to come and try to annoy the posters on WOS, I suppose it must get boring being somewhere where your NOT allowed to speak off piste, wouldn’t it be nice if NS would just dae sumfin tae get us indy instead of just creating dissension with sycophants and non believers

    175. twathater says:

      Me sorry as my bungo pony would say MALCONTENTS

    176. Polly says:

      Good post. The shocking part is the admission of it being a deliberate choice to vary definition of gender/sex to confuse and then lead the unwilling populace where they want them to go. All for our own and the greater good of course. It really is quite an admission. I see Gavin Henderson is deputy director of Scottish Government.

      I also saw another advert for a position in Scottish Government at the starting rate of £95,000 per annum, unless they were coming from a post already earning more than that where their original salary would be their starting salary. These people are paid such obscene amounts at this time, after ten years austerity and things only looking worse for future and they can be guaranteed their existing higher salary if they take a job at only 95,000. There should be a limit of ten times the lowest salary, at most, to anyone in however high a position in either government or private sector. They’re not worth more than that and that would create a really decent and fair society.

    177. Polly says:

      @ twathater

      ‘I see the Cat litter and Me Bungo Pony (david caledonia) have had a wee day off from WGD to come and try to annoy the posters on WOS, I suppose it must get boring being somewhere where your NOT allowed to speak off piste’

      Yes, twathater, I’ve noticed similar. Despite haranguing folk on Wings quickly enough about ‘hating Sturgeon’ or doing whatever they claim we do to damage independence, in other places similar types of posters fail to fight their corner elsewhere with the same gusto about plebiscite elections and voting for a different list party. I doubt they’re friends to many here, Cameron isn’t the only one they’re against. They seem though a shadow of their former selves elsewhere.

    178. Oneliner says:

      @cirsium

      ‘People who cant think straight are easily frightened and controlled.’

      Sounds like predictive control speak to me.

      Presumably if you do not think ’straight’ then you think divergently. Ergo, it is entirely possible that you would regard fear and control differently from a straight (convergent) thinker.

    179. Effijy says:

      James Barr Gardiner

      Yes James,

      There are over 1 million expats living in Europe and as they get older
      and health issues arrive, they get better health support in countries like
      Spain than they would in England.

      Their EU Card, the E 11 means they don’t have to pay.

      As the Tories drag them out of Europe that health care all stops.
      Typically an English couple might sell a £300-400,000 home and buy something
      Half the price in Spain and live off the profit, savings and UK pension.

      If they have to return due to health reasons and the falling pound, there will be a
      Surge in Spanish property for sale, that will drop the value and give them little left
      To find a home back in England.

      With house shortages, the associated fees and no prospect of a mortgage many would find it
      Impossible to buy back in their home town.
      A slight possibility of private rent where their rent may be paid by the tax payer.
      The same if a council house vacancy existed.

      How would their local GP and Hospitals cope with an additional 1,000,000 people with health issues
      arrived next year?

      As they appear in the money out box on Tory spread sheets, you will see the pension age increased
      To 70. Mobility vehicles you can forget and with no annual increases you will see the 4th worst pension in Europe quickly take over the number 1 spot.

      To prepare the NHS for its new American owners, expensive treatments such as open heart surgery
      will no longer be supported for those of a certain age who can’t pay privately.

      Given a little more time and power the Tories will ensure that there is no pension or NHS for your
      Children. No Social security safety net and no opposition to their policies.

      Sit up and take notice. Resist with everything you have, free Scotland from this desolate house of Usher.

    180. Effijy says:

      Tory Policing Minister, Kit Malthouse on BBC news stating that
      they have spent Hundreds of Millions preparing the country
      for the Brexit agreement they signed after enormously protracted
      negotiation but only now consider the terms could see the citizens
      N Ireland might starve if the UK mainland cannot send food to them
      Without tariffs?

      The Tories are so very confident that the English electorate are dumb
      enough to accept such illegal acts and incompetence come into effect.

      The DUP will support anything the Tories do just as long as their floodgate
      of subsidies continues to flow right into their pockets.

      And the SNP opinion and actions in response to all this is ????????

    181. Juteman says:

      @Cameron.
      Here’s a challenge for you.
      When the next article is up on the blog, see if you can comment on it without posting any links at all btl. Just give your own opinions.
      How about it? 🙂

    182. Sam says:

      If you have neither a penis nor a vagina, what sex are you?

    183. CameronB Brodie says:

      Juteman
      I thought I was doing both, as my introductory comments are essentially my interpretation of theory and practice. I do try to stay clear of threads I have little specialist insight into, or I’ll delay posting until a good few folk have had their say first. I am very conscious of being overbearing and I try to only belittle those on the radical right, or those who assume they are my intellectual superior, but clearly aren’t.

      Would you mind if I posted some stuff on moral theory and bioethics?

    184. Ottomanboi says:

      Viral state is destroying our freedom.
      https://www.corbettreport.com/covid911/
      Ignorance, compliance, complacency and indifference are co-morbid.

    185. defo says:

      You’re gonna da it anyway Spameron, but let’s be clear here, nae cunt buys yer pish.
      The truly gifted and the talented don’t usually feel the need to constantly remind everyone of their abilities.

      Fuck knows why the dear leader puts up with such obvious spamming & thread disruption.
      Comment count aside.

    186. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ottomanboi
      I see you are still trying to undermine a respect for global health law and public health ethics. I appreciate our liberty is under intense pressure right now, but the “Right to Health” is the key to inclusive and sustainable democracy. So would you mind clarifying your agenda, as it doesn’t appear compatible with the principle of equality in law?

    187. John Digsby says:

      @Effijy

      The E111 (now called EHIC) never covers permanent residencies, so it won’t make any change to ex-pats. They will continue to have to contribute in as needed (in insurance-based countries like Germany anyway, not sure how Spain works)

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      Who are you outside your ego? You certainly don’t strike me as being particularly open minded, or open to ethical rationalism. Why not take the opportunity to enlighten yourself with some of the insight I’m making available, or are you simply too arrogant and lazy?

    189. defo says:

      Arrogant!
      Deciding that you know best what others need, and can say, isn’t arrogant?

      You’re in need a good hard slap aboot the chops, and I’m happy to travel .

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      Would you say the same to your doctor? Why not engage your brain, or better still, why not give your arse a chance?

    191. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      P.S. I’m happy to accommodate your threat of violence, but lets sort our government out first.

    192. Willie says:

      Noticed the comments earlier.

      Wee Ginger Dug – an odious censorious bog roll blog best not to trod on.

    193. Trying to find out if the people of St Kilda forced to leave their ancient homeland in a `trail of tears ` scenario,

      or was it by consent and if so how do we know this,

      or was it by some dogooder whitey woke liberals that thought they were doing good by taking them from their ancient honeland and sticking them in `civilsed` big cities.

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scot Finlayson
      Are you trying to trigger me? The woke perspective values epistemic truth, where as genderwoowoo is the absolute rejection epistemic integrity. Those supporting its introduction into Scots law. wish to destroy the epistemic coherence of Scots law. Of course, all of this destruction of democratic principles is being undertaken under the watchful eye of the Lord Advocate.

    195. Effijy says:

      That clown Kit Malthouse is Minister for CRIME and the Police but he thinks the law is there to be broken as required.

      On BBC he also said the teenager who organised a party should be fined £10,000.
      Isn’t he just breaking the law as he requires?

    196. Dave Hansell says:

      A salient every from Milton Mayer’s book “They Thought They Were Free” can be found here:

      https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

      This passage provides a succinct description of the process:

      “To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.”

    197. Shug says:

      BBC Scotland going strong on why a rule of 6 and not 8 and why make such a rule and a few English voices saying it is confusing and people don’t understand
      It looks like the BBC is spreading confusion and letting any thick whako have cart blanch to address the nation
      They are clearly trying to get the Scottish infection rate up to the same as England
      One wee lady from Glasgow came on and said we all need to keep away from groups it is simple then of very quick and back to an English voice saying how confusing it is and the government need to get a grip
      BBC are now a major part of the misinformation process
      I do hope the sg work up an alternative communication systemq

    198. leither says:

      love yer links cameron

    199. Ron Maclean says:

      @Scot Finlayson 9:38am

      Stories from St Kilda – National Records of Scotland – nrscotland.gov.uk

    200. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dave Hansell 9.57: yes, an excellent (and relevant) quotation.

      The Nazis didn’t start with Auschwitz, they began by marginalising and oppressing minorities so that most people could say, “Well, it doesn’t affect me….”

      Niemoeller’s “First they came for…” poem decribes the process very elegantly.

      Once the lobster is even dimly aware what’s happening in the warming pot it’s usually already too late.

      We’re living in dangerous times.

    201. cirsium says:

      @Ottomanboi, 8.24

      That Corbett report makes for sobering viewing. Pepe Escobar’s writing about this also gives a lot to think about https://www.globalresearch.ca/911-great-reset/5723556

      Ignorance, compliance, complacency and indifference. Fear needs to be thrown into the mix.

      thanks for this post Rev. Corbett + Escobar + Wings = a wake-up call

    202. Breeks says:

      Here are some of Mike Russell’s remarks about the UK’s Internal Market Bill…

      ”The UK Government have now asked this Parliament for legislative consent for this bill.

      But in addition to the damage it will do – reason enough to refuse consent – it surely cannot be right that we are expected to agree to something that is, in the admission of the proposers, against international law.

      The Scottish Government will therefore bring to this chamber a motion to refuse such consent. We will also publish a full rebuttal of the bill which we will distribute nationally and internationally and take whatever other steps are necessary to defend what we have and what we need to retain in order to build for the future.”

      Now I like Mike Russell, but even so, I’m curious. If I was to make the question into a poll, I wonder how many people would think Holyrood refusing legislative consent to the Bill constitutes doing something, or pretty much constitutes doing nothing.

    203. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “You’re in need a good hard slap aboot the chops, and I’m happy to travel .”

      Banned. What is the matter with people? What on Earth made you think I’d consider that an acceptable way for people to conduct themselves on this site? How many fucking times have I had to tell people to can the personal abuse? I am sick to death of commenters behaving like primary-school children.

    204. Dogbiscuit says:

      The ‘trans’ agenda is a U N agenda that’s why Nicola Sturgeon is pushing it .She is taking orders

    205. Stuart MacKay says:

      Cameron,

      The sex classes of “male” and “female” are a reflection on human biology, which is indeed a spectrum. That’s why you get butch women and effeminate men.

      I’m afraid you’re wrong on this one. In humans there are 23 pairs of chromosome. 22 are the same in males and females. In the 23rd females have XX and males have XY. These are just labels that describe what they look like, see https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/howmanychromosomes to get a good idea.

      So as far as biology is concerned in humans there are 2 and only 2, strictly binary sexes. These chromosomes are simply the instructions for building the machine that build the proteins that build the person. It’s how this machinery works that creates the spectrum of characteristics that we see in people. All kinds of things can disrupt it – the mother expressing too much estrogen during development, chemicals in the environment disrupting homone production, etc. etc. etc.

      It’s worth noting that about 1 in 4500 babies are born inter-sex, with ambiguous genitalia. Yes, you read that right 0.02%. That’s a number almost too small to be worth bothering about. But yet, here we are.

      On another note. Generally you post something that appears to at least appears to be relevant. However, if you still hope to make people sit up and take notice that there is a fundamental basis to law and avoiding that leads to trouble, then I’m afraid that ship sailed a long time ago and now you are just pissing into the wind.

    206. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stu

      You’re right to ban anyone acting this way.

      I know you value freedom of expression, and with due deference to the fact this is your site and your rules etc, can’t you at least see why folk are pissed off with Cameron’s tsunami of links and his “de haut en bas” sneering? That clown is making BTL comments a much less attractive prospect for many. I can’t for the life of me understand why you put up with his BS.

    207. mike cassidy says:

      And the article in which I found that photo is not particularly OT

      I’m numb to crazy stuff Trump says, but utterly terrified of crazy stuff Americans believe

      https://archive.is/otcSD

    208. Bob Mack says:

      @Andy,

      Cameron only uses evidence base practice to back up his thoughts. Lots of people do the same thing.
      Admittedly not as “dry” as the academia Cameron posts but nonetheless they use references to back their point.

      It’s pretty easy to skip over if you do not like it.

    209. ian stewart says:

      Dear Stu

      Give it a fucking rest !! “Tactics of Fascism ” Come on min get a grip. Outside your small group of sycophantic contributors the vast majority of the Yes community are sick and tired of this obsessiveness over the SNP and gender politics. Please take this on board and have a holiday and then get back to what you do best fighting for Scottish Independence. Suppose I’ll need to get ma coat now as I expect to be banned from your Kingdom.

    210. Karmanaut says:

      Yep. It’s depressing as hell.

    211. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Stewart,

      Is that your opinion of do you now speak officially for the “majority” of the Yes community? Never got to that meeting In afraid,

    212. mike cassidy says:

      ian stewart

      You think a party which thinks men can become women

      And that you should go to jail for denying this

      Is going to lead Scotland to independence.

      Best of luck!

    213. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “If you have neither a penis nor a vagina, what sex are you?”

      That depends on what sex you are, but you’re either male or female.

    214. Fergus Denoon says:

      Fascism? that’s not fascism Stu…

      My mum always said, don’t criticize until you’re perfect yourself, the ideal here is of course that inevitably your own flaws will make an arse out of your own beliefs, claiming to be perfect so you’re in a position to criticize, yet we just cant prove we’re perfect in order to make the claim in the first place. So when we criticize we need to accept we may just be making an arse of ourselves.

      In this instance for example we have people who at the very least think they are a different gender/sex than what they are perceived to be by traditional values, and I can understand this perspective, is there any reason why anyone wouldn’t accept this? is there a problem with accepting that what these people believe to be true may actually be true and should absolutely be respected out of common decency, is there a reason it should never be respected? is there a reason why it shouldn’t be allowed?

      and the answers to these questions are quite easy to ascertain/obtain, as we already have precedence of these instances and are part of our civilization model, those of us in the community who may believe something completely void of any evidence other than peoples words, thoughts and feelings, no other demonstrable evidence is needed to make such a thing recognized in law as something that should be respected, it is seen every day in the UK and around the world, in the form of religion.

      Now if we are to take the argument that because I think Religious people are crazy and shouldn’t be recognized whatsoever, so under normal circumstances without the recognized demand for respect in the law, every one of them is locked up for being a lunatic with an imaginary friend as a complete inability to prove gods existence makes them guilty, I also demand that under no circumstances should Catholics for example be able to enter the same toilets as non crazy people, as they have a history of pedophilia, and protecting pedophiles…

      being a reverend for example, demanding people show evidence in order for what they believe to be respected… must make it hard to type with that big brass neck, the title that you assign to yourself, isn’t something that’s foisted upon someone else, its something that you do to yourself, so cant in any way be recognized as fascism, its called a choice, giving people more choice is not fascism Stu, taking choices away is or denying them is, you, are the one desiring fascism on this subject. it is interesting to hear that going by your own logical path you don’t think you as a religious person should have that right at all to be religious, and most certainly shouldn’t enter any toilet where small children can be found as you obviously pose a danger to them, and strange that you maintain the title referend with such strong beliefs that you shouldn’t be allowed to…

      I guess you really don’t believe those things you seem so affronted by at all…

    215. mike cassidy says:

      Fergus Denoon

      You are saying I would have to wait until your mum decided I was perfect before I could judge this guy

      45-year-old Man Claims He Identifies as 8-year-old Girl in Child Porn Defense

      http://archive.is/c38bF

    216. Clapper57 says:

      Looking through the Twitter accounts of prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers I noted that none of them ….and they have their political fingers on the pulse apparently…..have highlighted the BBC removing the daily updates of the FM.

      Strange because they are all up in arms about the rising cases in Covid and the inaction of the UK Government.

      Mind you I am sure the fact that Labour’s involvement in this in no way prohibits them from mentioning it…pre 2019 GE they were all Lib Dem cheer leaders….now that they have converted to the pro Starmer Labour they surprisingly (not) seem to have omitted this crucial event….had this cancelling of the daily update been ALL Tory led then they would have been trumpeting it from their respective Twitter accounts……strange they cast aspersions so frequently on the Tories while they themselves are so blatantly hypocritical and not averse to omitting what should be seen as a politically motivated action by a so called public broadcaster….and initiated by a political party..Labour.

      Sure it is just an oversight….but one they will maintain unless forced to mention….in passing only…..

      Come Indy Ref 2 these ‘liberal’ minded remainers will find they will have to dine at the table of those they currently prefer to sh*t on…….another unholy alliance will be formed because needs must…..consort with their enemy will be the order of the day……perhaps it is not just the real elites we should target all our energies upon but instead reserve some of our energy upon the middle class ‘liberal’ minded opinionated and influential do gooder elites who see everything through what works for them and them alone….they pretend they want fairness and honesty but are as selective as to who deserves this treatment as the Tory government they are currently trying to demolish via words……on Twitter and their online political paper…the Byline Times.

      Come Indy Ref 2 we who live in Scotland are on our own…best we blackout the dissenters irrespective of how ‘liberal’ they seem as it would appear we Scots are only useful when we are prepared to shore up THEIR causes and politics and once we deviate we too become the enemy of the prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers…….these people were part of the ” Don’t leave us Scotland we love you” brigade…..

      Scots need to cancel out …..all incoming ‘friendly’ fire as well as hostile…instead should inform ourselves via research and choose not to listen to listen to debates , news, political discussions or subjective biased opinions via any MSM outlet if we are to make the right decision….for us and us alone.

      Got that out…anther rant in the bag…at end of a post….just more words in the wilderness….perhaps action at a time when the opponents find themselves on the ropes is too much to ask…will the SNP take THIS opportunity to realise NOW is THE time to move or will they wait again for their opponents to regroup…timing is everything apparently.

    217. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stuart MacKay
      Don’t take me wrong. I appreciate being corrected, but I’m not sure if my explanation contradicts yours, just because I failed to acknowledge the way that environmental factors influence human reproduction? Care to explain where we clash?

      Also, why not ask me to explain any point you can’t see relevance for, rather than assume it is no relevance or significance?

    218. Christian Schmidt says:

      As far as I understand it, for >99% of the population sex is binary – in that hey are men/women in the classical definition, and are attracted to men/women in the classical definition.

      For some a number of people it is manifestly *not* the case that sex is binary, and I guess if I would be in that position I would not be happy if I were de-facto erased – esp. from legal documents, so I think it is right not to talk about ‘opposite sex’ in a bill.

      I must admit I am a bit surprised that the government, with all the resources it has, hasn’t found a better way of addressing the issue…

    219. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 1.12pm

      “another rant in the bag…at end of a post”…spelt ‘another’ as anther….actually quite like new word anther…sounds old worlde ‘an ther will be a new word’…Lol

      Ach…nearly got last post….thought it was finished via new thread today …..one day..one day….will get the last comment….so will THIS be the last post of this thread….probably not….Lol

    220. Polly says:

      @ Bob Mack

      ‘Cameron only uses evidence base practice to back up his thoughts. Lots of people do the same thing.
      Admittedly not as “dry” as the academia Cameron posts but nonetheless they use references to back their point.’
      It’s pretty easy to skip over if you do not like it.

      I entirely agree and for ‘de haut en bas’ others nearly always use it first to Cameron. I think anyone should be able to scroll past any comment they dislike or, if it is distasteful, report it but don’t try to browbeat anyone to stop posting here for it makes anyone doing it look worse than what they complain about.

    221. CameronB Brodie says:

      Christian Schmidt
      Nobody is trying to deny the existence of the dysphoric, but I most strongly object to Scots law being being forced to shape itself around a clinical disorder (dysphoria is the disorder between an individual’s psychology and their physiology).

    222. Polly says:

      @

      ‘In this instance for example we have people who at the very least think they are a different gender/sex than what they are perceived to be by traditional values, and I can understand this perspective, is there any reason why anyone wouldn’t accept this?’

      Yes. I won’t accept that if I am attacked by a male who identifies as female, that in court I would be compelled to call him a woman. if I was raped by a man who identifies as a woman I do not want a court that talks of ‘her penis’ and says ‘she’ would be too vulnerable to be placed in a male prison, but be placed with other women who may also be attacked.

      I’m all for according people respect for what they want to be and would accommodate them from politeness by calling them ‘she’ or ‘he’ so long as they are polite towards me and society in general. Live and let live. However when their lives can cause damage to lives of women like me there is a conflict which all the repeated calls of ‘bigot/transphobe’ name calling and TWAW mottoes will not overcome. Until some semblance of balance is brought back into this debate, Self ID and ‘acceptance without exception’ of what people say they are is never going to be forced down my throat no matter who says it or what they try. There has to be gatekeeping.

      Your ‘ giving people more choice is not fascism Stu, taking choices away is or denying them is’ is my ‘taking away my rights as a woman to have woman only spaces’. When those rights conflict there will always be problems. Anyone who truly supports trans people and is not merely misogynist should work out how to ensure both trans women and women can come to accommodation rather than shouting ‘transphobe’ until all fear of being labelled by the word is gone.

    223. Stuart MacKay says:

      Cameron,

      We don’t clash but you should back up your knowledge of the law with some biology. You’d be on a much firmer footing with your assertions.

      To re-iterate on my second point. You’re really wasting your time with the flood of links. You’d get more respect and maybe even some traction if you wrote stuff (dare I say a blog) and used the links you post to back your case. Then you’d have a distinct audience, could still participate here and fulfill your education mission at the same time.

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stuart MacKay
      “We don’t clash but you should back up your knowledge of the law with some biology. You’d be on a much firmer footing with your assertions.”

      I appear to have failed to articulate my argument sufficiently clearly, which I can accept as I’m very rusty, though I wasn’t anything particularly special even when in practice. I lack the competence to blog, so I’d need to learn. Do you think we have the time for that?

      Environmental Law for Biologists
      Biology and the Law

      https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/11/999/2754265

    225. CameronB Brodie says:

      As the next post is up, here’s some links.

      Water, Air, and Soil Pollution volume 205, pages 87–89 (2010)
      Three Laws of Biology

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11270-008-9925-3

      Systems and Synthetic Biology. 2010 Mar; 4(1): 7–13.
      Laws of biology: why so few?

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2816229/

      A Biological Theory of Law: Natural Law Theory Revisited
      https://www.ssrn.com/abstract=1915686

    226. Fergus Denoon says:

      @ Mike Cassidy

      No, I’m not, as I tried and maybe failed to explain; there’s no point waiting until anyone is perfect, that is completely illogical, so you work on the assumption we can be wrong about our criticism.

      I haven’t read the link, but I’d assume a person would have no problem judging this case, being a “girl” doesn’t negate guilt in a child porn case, claiming that you’re “8 years old” doesn’t negate guilt in a child porn case, I would accept the person was an 8 year old girl and then sentence them guilty, if guilty, in a child porn case, they’d then go to jail for 4 years.

      The smile on their face may drop when they understand that the 4 year jail term translated to their own linier scale will have them in jail for 22.5 years.

      I think the point is that these choices that are given are not something that can be used in a court of law as a defense, our solar cycle is not something we have a choice about, and men and women are subject to the same laws so it would never matter if you were one or the other, being a man or a woman would not have any influence on the outcome of the case, which just leaves the defendant trying to convince a court that our solar system doesn’t work as everyone else recognizes it to, and in any case it still wouldn’t help as his age would be relative in whatever conversion rate was used, and wouldn’t gain any advantage at all.

    227. Polly says:

      @ Fergus Denoon

      ‘wouldn’t gain any advantage at all.’

      In regards to age maybe, in the case as stated but not when they say they are men who identify as women, for then they have the advantage of being placed in a female prison where they generally have less harsh conditions and which has left quite a few the ability to abuse, sexually and otherwise, vulnerable women in the female prison who have to choice about saying no.

      Your ‘ giving people more choice is not fascism Stu, taking choices away is or denying them is’ is my ‘taking away my rights as a woman to have woman only spaces’. When those rights conflict there will always be problems. Anyone who truly supports trans people and is not merely misogynist should work out how to ensure both trans women and women can come to accommodation rather than shouting ‘transphobe’ until all fear of being labelled by the word is gone. Self ID will never be right when it can impact on other people as this does. I believe in live and let live, but not when my rights as a woman are taken away.

    228. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not sure if a political approach to Scotland’s peril will suffice, as Britain’s political and media environments are dysfunctional. Turning a blind eye to the principles of constitutional and international law will certainly not help our cause.

      Brexit v Dicey

      ….Ushering in constitutional rights for citizens under the Human Rights Act also gave judges a greater role in policing those rights and brought the judiciary further into the field of forming public policy, an issue that has continued to simmer ever since.

      There had already been grumbles from public law academics that such meddling risked unsettling the UK’s ancient but ad hoc constitutional settlements. Those following the example of celebrated theorists like AV Dicey, who popularised key notions of parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law, despair at the lack of restraint by modern politicians and policy makers.

      And then the 2016 referendum on membership of the EU happened, pitching the UK into a new order of uncertainty that has already thrown many of the assumed norms of public life and governance right out of the window. This summer saw an election within the Conservative Party of the new prime minister, Boris Johnson, to replace Theresa May, who herself broke convention to bring the same deal on exiting the EU back to Parliament despite repeated rejections.

      Several candidates to replace May openly floated proroguing Parliament to force through an exit this autumn without agreed exit terms, a stance that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago.

      It is clear that the flurry of modern reforms is about to be stress tested, and constitutional advisers are being asked whether Brexit poses a political or constitutional crisis and, more broadly, if the two can be separated….

      https://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/feature/brexit-v-dicey/

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, wrong thread.

    230. Clapper57 says:

      @ Polly @ 3.40pm

      Polly I totally agree with your statement re “vulnerable women in the female prison who have to choice about saying no”….

      To place She-Males in a women’s prison for no other reason than they self ID as a woman almost makes a mockery of the quote ” You do the crime You do the time”……adds a proviso of ” on YOUR terms though” for the She-Males….where as women in female prisons who are forced to share with She-Males are offered the crumbs of another quote “Like it or lump it”……..

    231. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 3.56pm

      Sorry my mistake should be ““vulnerable women in the female prison who have NO choice about saying no”…..

      Polly together we as women …with other women….will decide what we think is best for women…..and will never apologise for doing so……and like you I endorse ” to each their own” but never at the cost of diminishing someone else…..

    232. twathater says:

      Clapper57 and Polly very well said it is not for males to decide what women should suffer or give up rights to , as males we have NO concept or understanding of what it is to be a woman end of , and as for people who have genuine dysphoria they are ALREADY accommodated in the 2010 equalities act , the GRA amendments IMO are designed to accommodate a growing number of deviants who are using genuinely confused individuals as a smokescreen to access their sordid ambitions

      And that is without even taking account of the golden financial opportunities of big pharma

      And as a fully paid up member of the tinfoil hat brigade I have always been aware of any governments proclivity to diversionary tactics , or as we Scots call it , OH look a squirrel

    233. Corrado Mella says:

      Blog published on 30 July 2018. Over two years ago.
      Prescient, as always.

      https://oboporopob.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/the-nudge-theory/

      I’m telling you now, on the current Scottish (?) leadership Holyrood will fold in March 2021.

      See you back here in 6 months.

      I won’t be around, mind you.

    234. Clapper57 says:

      @ twathater @ 4.52pm

      🙂

      Have a nice evening

    235. Mark says:

      Gender debate latest news?

    236. Polly says:

      @Clapper57

      Yes my mistake not to make sure it was NO. I’m glad we agree and I know many, probably most, women do.

      @ twathater

      Thank you for standing with us on this. Since this issue arose many women have quickly realised who the good guys are.

    237. David Caledonia says:

      Cameron dear boy

      You are a victim of your own verbosity and your inexactitude is astounding lol

    238. David Caledonia says:

      One bag o wind replying to another bag o wind and another bag o wind replying to the first two bags o wind
      Be better calling ths place, The Bag O Wind Show

    239. David Caledonia says:

      And Porto Rico is stll pissing off the unionists on youtube with his comebacks and witty repartee lol

    240. David Caledonia says:

      And alba_tross, he is my fav, in fact we could be twins lol

    241. stonefree says:

      A simple question does Jordan Henderson still work in the SNP?
      He was supposed to be gone



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