The non-political Games
For at least a year now long-suffering newspaper readers have had to endure dire warnings from Unionist politicians about the dastardly Nats turning the Commonwealth Games into some sort of evil referendum propaganda campaign. (It was, of course, absolutely fine to continually invoke the “Olympic spirit” in 2012 and beyond as a reason Scots should vote to stay in the UK. That’s totally different.)
Today’s UK edition of the Daily Mail (on the left above, and somewhat different to the Scottish edition on the right) carries a story that appears in several papers about the opening ceremony, in which it transpires that the Red Arrows were forbidden by the Ministry of Defence from creating only blue-and-white vapour trails over Celtic Park.
But even after just one day, it’s far from the only example of the No campaign’s politicisation of the Friendly Games.
The Red Arrows story is an ugly piece of work in its own right. Initially portrayed as an attempt by the Scottish Government to interfere with the flypast, it turned out to have nothing to do with them, and was a request by a private contractor employed by the Glasgow 2014 organising committee.
(That didn’t stop the Mail illustrating its story with a big picture of the First Minister captioned “Alex Salmond has been accused of abandoning his pledge not to use the 2014 Games to score political points”.)
The UK government then made a direct political intervention to stop the colours of the Scottish flag being used, and instead impose those of the Union Jack. The Telegraph’s report on the Red Arrows row noted that:
But this turned out to be a complete lie.
Above, for example, are the Arrows trailing the colours of the Maltese flag at an airshow in Malta last year. And in 2006 they managed to create a tricky St George’s Cross to mark England’s participation in the World Cup.
And in 2009 at another air show they even went so far as to fly the Saltire colours.
In 2012 they were sent to do Vladimir Putin’s flag at a birthday shindig near Moscow:
And most strikingly of all, the BBC website’s report of the opening of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 contains the lines:
So that seems like pretty comprehensive proof that the Red Arrows DO trail colours other than those of the Union Jack, and that they’re even prepared to do it over Scotland, and even in a political context. The “spokesman” quoted by the Telegraph is either lying or imaginary.
The “Britifying” of an event expressly and distinctly hosted by Scotland, not the UK, has continued in other ways, both official and other. Persons as yet unidentified, for example, have been handing out thousands of flags to spectators in streets near the venues, with Saltires on one side and Union Jacks on the other.
Yet the UK flag has no legitimate presence at the games (except for on the flags of New Zealand, Australia etc). The UK is not a participating nation – Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland all compete under their own flags and with their own anthems. (England not even using “God Save The Queen” as they do at football and rugby, in order to emphasise the fact.)
An article on the BBC website contradicts itself in the space of two paragraphs over whether the Union Jack is in fact allowed within Games arenas at all:
You are not allowed, however, to bring the flag of a country not competing in the Games”
Both of those can’t be true. The Union Jack is the flag of the United Kingdom, which is not a competing nation. But in either case an earlier passage makes clear that:
Just weeks from the independence referendum, a flag combining the Saltire and Union Jack is every bit as political, if not more so, that one which combined the Saltire and the flag of either Palestine or Israel.
And the UK’s non-participant flag has even been brought onto the field of competition. The England cycling team kit inexplicably includes helmets with the Union Jack, rather than the Cross of St George, on them:
Cynical readers may not be astonished to learn that this “Britishness” only works one way. The Spotlight, a newsletter supporting “British Swimming athletes and events” this week ran a feature wishing good luck to the swimmers of… Team England only.
(And lastly, the less that’s said about the Brigadoon antics of the opening ceremony, spewing out grim, clichéd stereotype images of a shortbread-and-Nessie-and-haggis Scotland like WW1 machine-gun fire from an array of conspicuously No-supporting celebrities, the better it’ll probably be for all concerned. The first 20 minutes in particular were like an interpretive-dance depiction of the cringing, twee inferiority that’s at the heart of the “Better Together” message.)
Of course, what colour of vapour an air display team flies over a sporting ceremony for a few seconds or what the tip of Sir Bradley Wiggins’ big red helmet looks like are in themselves totally trivial matters not worth getting too upset over when there’s fantastic sporting endeavour on display.
But in that case, why was the UK government sticking its nose in at all? Why weren’t the organisers of the event allowed to get on with doing as they saw fit?
The only possible answer is that it was a direct political intervention. After all, sport and showbiz don’t normally form part of the Ministry of Defence’s remit, so readers might be forgiven for wondering what they’re doing having an opinion about either one.
The No campaign is absolutely determined to impose a deeply political frame of reference around a high-profile sporting occasion. It did so with a UK event in 2012 and it’s doing so again with an ostensibly Scottish one in 2014. The only “national” anthem played on Wednesday night was that of the UK. The Queen of 17 countries was saluted with the colours of just one of them.
(In the context of the opening ceremony’s highly-commendable equality message, it might have been nice if the Red Arrows had trailed a rainbow flag instead.)
The Yes side has stuck to its pledge not to politicise the Games. The First Minister didn’t whip a Saltire out of Mrs Salmond’s handbag, and resisted the obvious temptation to slip any sly references into his speech about the number of competing nations which were once part of the UK (essentially all of them) but have since chosen to go their own way and never looked back, and which remain friends and partners just like an independent Scotland would.
There was never any chance of the Unionists doing the same.
Of course, had they flown with just blue and white showing, nobody would have said a word. Had the stupid hybrid flags not been produced and given out freely, nothing would have happened.
A total own goal if ever there was one.
Good!
England, the unfriendly neighbour at the Friendly Games.
Didn’t Tessa Jowell, make some moronic comment about these not being Scotland’s games as well?
Sigh! They are just so predictable. You can’t trust the buggers. Surely people will have the sense to see them for what they are & make the only sensible choice
I am curious as to who was handing out the mutant flags. It seems to me to be deliberate politicisation of the event.
The clamour to ensure the games weren’t politicised was, in itself, politicisation.
At the swimming last night it was ridiculous commentary, the commentators basically stopped short calling Hannah Miley to drown in support of the English swimmer. “Err on the side of Scots” my erse.
BRAVO Stu….!! Brilliant as always
I stopped watching the games yesterday afternoon.
It has been completely high jacked by the London worthies & feels like I’m watching an event in my home town through the lens of another country’s state broadcaster even though I live just 50 miles away.
Almost all the commentators are from outside Scotland which I find incredible. Imagine being Canadian, watching your Commonwealth Games in Ottawa for example, which is broadcast & commentated on by a South African TV crew. And the organiser was flown in from California. And almost all of your entertainers were shipped in from Australia.
The only conclusion one would reach is that your country is simply incapable of running anything without the interference of a larger neighbouring country.
And this is precisely the subliminal message the British have so far managed to insidiously propagate right into our living rooms.
Any attempt to make the games feel local is promptly quashed by a liberal dose of British gentrification: Red Arrows, God Save the Queen, Union Flags, English commentators.
Thank God the weather is in his hands. Otherwise London would have made it fucking rain too.
It gets worse BBC breakfast managed to find the only bowling club in Scotland still called:”The North British Bowling Club” for a vist. They interviewed the guy with the sign behind him so that Scots know they are in North Britain. The BBC and Westminster are working hand in glove along with the military. Sillars was right this is Whitehall and M15 at work.
Already put my complaint in to the bbc regarding breaking the cg rules on political flags and one of a country not competing and the English cycle sprint team using a Union flag interchangeably with a st George.
Shrimp -It was Help For Heroes handing out the flags. They are working with better together. Someone commented that was at the event to that effect!
There is a wonderful video clip going around Facebook. It shows the Scottish athletes waiting to go into the stadium. They are singing Flower of Scotland at the tops of their voices.
Unfortunately it is in my news feed without any way to share it other than through Facebook.
Can’t find it on YouTube I’m afraid but it is absolutely great.
Is it not time that we started stating the facts about why the Better Together campaign is being fought so hard by the Westminster Government – They don’t want the Scottish people or even our country for that matter, even though they like to the give the impression that we are a family all they interested in is our money
And then you win
Scotland has 10 medals. Pro rata top of table.
YES
On the subject of the mutant flags
Would suggest that anyone going to or in the vicinity of a game event location, look out for these people.
If you see them, first take a picture, like your a tourist.
Then approach them in a friendly manner and ask them what the flags are about, again keeping it in a touristy friendly smiling fashion (make sure you don’t have any badges on you to suggest that your not a friendly face)
Perhaps even , see if you can take a few ‘for your friends’ (to be dumped of course)
All the while smiley face
How petty and pathetic they are. Are we paying for the RAF? If so it will be necessary to get out of this nasty union and have our own air force because that one is certainly very foreign.
BTW Scottish Skier posted the link to what the Scottish team were really singing before emerging on Wednesday.
link to youtube.com
Unionist hypocrisy. It will backfire because people in Scotland can see it as such. As for the “united” kingdom after September 18th? It’s finished, there is no going back.
If Hoy had still been competing even more medals
@Capella
That’s the one.
Of course it has to be said that the unionists would have never got away with this pro-union politicisation of the Games were it not for the complicity of the Labour run City of Glasgow Council hosts.
The cycle helmet Union Jack was really weird, unless the Union Jack is the England flag. Maybe they really just don’t give a shit, Bradley wiggins seems like a pretty decent bloke.
This lot of shysters really do care though
link to bbc.co.uk. You don’t have to go searching for UKOK propaganda as in this BBC tatty sack rag of a Scotland flag choice. You will vote no, you will vote no, you’re not going to vote yes etc
Come and read the comments here.
link to bbc.co.uk
Bitter little shits doesn’t cover it.
I want to know what that fat twat Carmichael was thinking when he warned Alex Salmond not to politicise the games.
Or what, square go in Holyrood park? I’ll be glad to see the back of that turncoat after September 18th.
@scaredy cat
link to youtube.com
This is the video scaredy cat mentions
link to youtube.com
There’s a simple rubric to apply to the Dependency campaign.
Whenever they warn Yes against committing a particular action, you can guarantee they’ll commit that action themselves.
Well they aren’t playing by the rules, why should we? I’m bringing some Yes Scotland paraphernalia to Ibrox tomorrow for the rugby sevens. Might even try smuggle my Yes saltire in.
Guardian Scotland wants you to know when you’re defeated Scotlandshire. We haven’t had the referendum yet, British national news paper of the year my arse
link to theguardian.com
Wife took two of these damn flags at Parkead and found a bin.
O/T Labour bus is due at the Pipe Band Championship in Dumbarton Tomorrow. Entry is free. The Championship is a huge event with bands from all over Scotland and beyond.
Come along and visit the YES Stall and give Jim Murphy a roasting
Good article.
I don’t understand why some people didn’t get that we were being stitched up by the subtle and not too subtle “British” messages but then again some people need to take their heids out of their arses as they’re not as clever and clued up as they think.
Didn’t really see them calling truce for the games and so far they haven’t disappointed.
Big Heep pile of Britnat pish from Phillp Hammond is the
QUEEN NOT THE QUEEN OF SCOTLAND TO.rite offski this time.
Seems odd that the pro-union campaign are out to generate more Yes votes. That’s the only thing britifying Scotland’s games can achieve. People are just not that stupid.
We all know what team Scotland were singing of their own accord before they emerged from the tunnel at the opening ceremony. The crowd would have been hoping to get a chance to do the same. The general silence at GSTQ said it all. Compare with the reaction to Flower of Scotland when a medal is being presented.
Scotland is now the least British in identity it has been as far back as census data goes (those born in the 1920’s). The peak of Britishness was in those born in 1944 and it’s been falling ever since (~72% Scottish only in young adults today – the least British of any generation on record). No amount of jack waving will changing anything.
Flags / national symbols can be powerful. However, they do not change national identity, only reinforce existing identities, and these change on generational scales (if at all), not from watching people perform a show one evening.
I know that there are some people who think that we are getting our knickers in a twist about all of this but really we’re not. Since the entire process was initiated I’ve been employed by 2 organisations who had input into the Games in various ways (the first one were involved in the actual bid) and I’ve sat on various groups who had a role in some of the wider legacy that was hoped to be developed. Glasgow 2014 was entirely made in Scotland. From the early bidding process, through the bid being won, through preparation, planning, funding. A chunk of delivery is via international folk who skip round the world taking up logistical posts at whaever major sporting event they can find (games junkies) but that happens everywhere.
The UK state has had next to NO involvement in funding, bidding or delivery and now what do we find? The entire public face of the games has been given a ludicrous Britwash by the BBC and the UK Establishment, utterly paranoid that the uppity Jocks gets ideas above their station. I switched on the highlights last night hoping to watch the Scottish winners get their medals with FoS being played in the background. They barely played any of it. Scottish success is subordinated wherever possible and every single aspect of coverage is subject to Britwash.
I’m really trying not to get upset about it because it was such a fantastic first day for Team Scotland but when it is as in-your-face as this it’s hard not to.
Thanks everybody.
That wee clip made me smile.
Im still smiling at last nights Newsnight.
Pat Kane has never laughed so much and so loud as he did when Brian Wilson was calling out for non politicising of the Games and the usual “people should feel scared” pish.
Honestly, try and catch it on playback, at onepoint Wilson even has to play the “I didnt hear the question” when he realises hes looking very foolish indeed. He then plays the “Nations vs States” card which really gets Pat Kanes attention.
Anyone watching must have been thinking What a Diddy watching Wilson flouder like a Kenyan Triathlete doing the breaststroke but with a 10th of the athletes dignity.
They may well have shot themselves in the foot here. I think the Law of reversed effect may come into play and shoehorning Britishness into things may make people question it more than if they had left well alone.
There was a palapable sense of panic last night on sky news as they passionately declared that Alec Salmond would be hung out to dry if he tried to politicise the games and then frantically searched for reasoning behind the red arrows debacle. People know hypocrisy when they see it.
[…] « The non-political Games […]
The RAF’s Red Arrow pilots were obviously getting in bombing practice before Scotland opts for independence.
Its park of the rUK’s scorched earth policy after independence. First they take out Celtic Park, Hampden, Murrayfield, Edinburgh Airport, Glasgow Airport, Holyrood, Bute House, Stirling Castle, Wallace Monument ……… and then finally Balamory.
Celtic fans are furious that Orange Order members were dishing out those two-faced flags prior to the opening ceremony. It will take months to fumigate the place.
Here are some better colours for everyone….
link to youtube.com
Desimond
I also watched the Kane v Wilson bout last night
it was funny listening to Wilson prattle on. No wonder that Pat Kane was laughing
The gem for me was that ‘sorry didn’t hear the question – I’ll answer the question’ prat fall from Wilson
The other thing to note was having the shot of the two screens almost side by side. the impression I had was of a smart tanned intelligent Pat Kane on one side and an old has been (old fart) that was Wilson on the other. Scotland’s future self versus Scotland’s cringing past
The other bit to note was that both Pat Kane and Brian Wilson were in the same building, but on different floors. Were the BBC scared that a fight would break out if they had them in the same studio?
Friendly games someone should tell uk that friendship should go bath ways who does the red white and blue represent anyway last I looked england and Ireland were both red / white Scotland blue / white and wales was red green and white
Must be land of the kiwi or oz
Like many on here, it is hard to put into words the fury that the BBC and BBC Scotland can generate within so many normally placid, level headed people.
The only good thing that can come out of this, is that normally placid undecided voters vent their anger at that the British Establishment/BBC.
They then see that they are not being listened to either.
They find that the only way to move on from this is to vote YES.
Seen this posted
The double sided flags were done by local activists – not BT or party affiliated.
I know the guy that organised it.
Apologies folks it reads better below:-
Friendly games? Someone should tell UK that friendship should go both ways! Who does the red white and blue represent? The last I looked England and Ireland were both red / white Scotland blue / white and wales was red green and white
Must be for land of the kiwi or oz
Shouldn’t someone be calling the polis about these all these false flags?
Scaredy cat at 11.05
And the Daily Record gives the clip big coverage and supplies a link.
I think I’ll have to go and lie down
They always say that the US do not do irony, well the English and their hingers on do not understand hypocrisy.
@ Desimond, watched that too, even the Newsnight interviewer couldn’t stomach Dr Death. Check out Brian Wilson online and this is one serious director of British nuclear industry, and he really really wants student fees in Scotland, or at least England but presumably Scotland next, if they get back in
link to theyworkforyou.com
Voted very strongly for university tuition fees, because young people should start life with huge debts and the rich are fine with it.
Alex, bet he has their undying gratitude, we certainly know how to breed them/
Rarely are these sort of things not used for political purposes. 2012 was Project Britain, writ large. 1984, Summer & Winter games. 1980, US boycott. 1936!
The Olympic movement itself, and the Commonwealth Games are underwritten with political meaning, and intent.
The whole ethos behind these events, is pure Bread & Circus’.
Let’s be honest, if we can secure 0.5% of the vote through the feel good factor of Scottish success, who would reject that ?
And, is anyone here really surprised at the shenanigans of the London establishment, and their proxy, Glesga coonsul ?
I’d be more surprised if they weren’t at it.
As revolutions go, if the worst we have to suffer is this transparent pish, we are doing well.
Watching the feed here in Australia, there was a lovely piece on telly an hour ago about Hanna Milley and Ross Murdoch on the podium about to receive their medals and both getting very emotional when ‘Flower of Scotland’ was sung by the crowd. Please tell me those moments were shown by the BBC
I thought Help for Heroes was a charity ? I stopped flinging coins in their tins, when I saw a huge banner walking behind the EDL/SDL last year.
Remember their march down the ? Royal Mile at the height of the tourist season?
As they say, you cannae pick your relatives but you can pick your friends and if HFH want to be associated with that crew , I can choose to give my money elsewhere.
Besides why are service people having to rely on charity?
While I’m on the subject, Edinburgh Council – classy , the City where the marching season never ends.
“Scotland has 10 medals. Pro rata top of table.”
But that will have nothing to do with Scotland, of course; it will only be because we are part of the UK.
How Australia, New Zealand and Canada, so far, manage to win medals is completely incomprehensible, as they are not part of the UK. It’s so perplexing.
Three Scottish born pilots in the Red Arrows.
Flight Lieutenant Stewart Campbell
Flight Lieutenant Joe Hourston
Flight Lieutenant Martin Pert
I wonder how these guys are feeling about being dragged into mess created by the MoD?
It’s the complete Londonisation of the BBC’s coverage which irritates me the most. If the Games were being held in Birmingham I’d want to hear Brummie voices, or Welsh voices at a Cardiff Games, but all we get is the usual suspects from Central Casting.
The British Government is not trusted.
The BBC is not trusted.
The MSM is not trusted.
The Better Together Campaign is not trusted.
Their combined antics and lack of respect for Scotland and its people is being exposed more and more everyday.This will increase the number of converts from No to Yes.
The Team Scotland performances and medal haul will generate positivity that will help the YES campaign.
It all explains the strategy of the date of the referendum.
The momemtum is increasing pace everyday, and BT et al are scared, very scared.
Why does the desk that Gary Lineker presents the Commonwealth Games from have a big “BBC SPORT” logo right in the middle of it.
Should it not be the “Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games” logo.
Anyone who is not familiar with this might think that it is BBC London who are running these games.
It’s just another example of the drip drip effect that the British Establishment/BBC have set up.
One more trivial complaint, but add them all up and you find that their is a massive propaganda programme at work here.
I am born and bred Scot, very proud of my heritage. For the past 20 years have lived in the Netherlands, here they refer to us as being English. Why you may ask?
– the language we speak
– the dominant nation
– the dutch teach the children at primary school that the UK is called “Engeland”.
So whats my point ..
If Scotland votes NO, there is no point me arguing / defending being Scottish. The majority will have decided, we are British/English.
Me I will opt for a Dutch passport.
Gordon Matheson was wearing a Better Together badge on his lapel at the opening of the games.
I put the following passage on my Facebook page, and have had agreement from others;
Am I the only one wondering why on the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation and the National News, we are inundated with ENGLISH presenters, and references to medals, etc., have “we” as English, and “they” are Scottish.?Is it paranoia or over sensitivity on my part or are we paying for this nonsense?
I’m so glad that the Celtic Park crowd gave England the second biggest cheer – it was a massive welcome to our closest neighbours and showed that despite our rivalry, despite a dirty political campaign from BT, we can rise above it and make our guests feel welcome. I didn’t hear any boo’ing etc from where I was sitting.
crikey, I even stood up when the queen came in as a mark of respect for the occasion – although I did (along with a big section of the crowd) laugh at Gordon Mathieson. Says it all really.
2012 London Olympics had endless BBC cycle of spectating David Cameron, his wife, George Osborne, the queen, the queens husband, sons, sons’ wife, grandsons, grandsons’ wife, and back to Cameron, his wife…
Still not seen any BBC shots of Scotland’s elected MP’s yet. Holyrood MP’s probably banned by the Beeb too. At least Gideon Osborne got a right good booing at the Paralympics.opening ceremony.
The peak of Britishness was in those born in 1944 and it’s been falling ever since
I suspect this Commonwealth games will knock it down a bit more as well. It’s just too blatantly obviously London meeja-luvvies, and the bigging up England (us) while virtually ignoring Scotland (they) is a far knife in the back of Britishness than anything the Yes campaign could dream up.
Easy way to find the guy who was giving out the flags…..go to facebook’s ‘Shiteshirts’ page .
Grant says,
Don’t be silly,after 307 years we’re still here. The fight continues.
Papadox says:
23 July, 2014 at 10:42 pm
I have watched most of the opening ceremony and after five minutes couldn’t take any more there was something very irritating and annoying which was beginning to get to me.
Then by accident discovered the root of the problem. I turned off the sound and discovered it was those EBC accents and the pish they spew incessantly that was causing my irritation.
So have been watching the rest of it in silence and with the exception of seeing awe they f…ing
Union flags stuck at the corner of the countries flags. Don’t listen to the BBC shit and the program is watchable for the most part. I used that system during the World Cup and only missed a couple of games. 40 years ago I used to watch a lot of football. Now I know why I stopped.
It’s the EBC VERBAL DIARRHOEA Whot done it, I’m allergic.
EBC Scotland is certainly just a front for establishment control and propaganda against the scottish population.
I originally posted this on Wednesday night.
I’m so glad that the Celtic Park crowd gave England the second biggest chee
Yeah, it’s one thing to be careful of in this whole thing. The UK government and establishment, BBC included, have gone all out to politicise this and stamp their own view that Scotland isn’t a country but a region onto it.
But that’s not the fault of the English athletes, or the presenters themselves, or the audience in England which the BBC is mostly aimed at (because they’re by far the biggest constituency for the BBC). So any anger vented in that direction is unfair and would also be used against us.
Also anger isn’t really needed: it speaks for itself, or should. This is how they feel free to act towards Scotland a few weeks before the referendum. Imagine how they’ll act if we’re daft enough to vote no and legitimise their view that Scotland isn’t a real country?
Yesterday, Royal Mail wished good luck to Bradley Wiggins cycle team. There simply is no distinction to a lot of people down South between England and Britain.
Can we not quickly organise small YES saltires to be given away outside the games?
You’ll hear the unionist screaming then.
Tessa Jowell was on Sky Newspaper review last night having a go at Alex Salmond and the SNP, wasn’t it she and her husband who spent a small fortune trying to ban the reporting of the fact her rugby playing son had taken drugs to enhance his playing.
I’m loving the Games so far. Glasgow looks great and there seems to be a fantastic atmosphere.
I just can’t wait for Scotland to be a normal country so we can end all this tiptoing around about flags, anthems and the general sense of pride that virtually everyone else on earth enjoys without any feeling of unease.
The normalisation of Scottish sport as British may play into the hands of international organisations such as FIFA. Who want Britain to play as one team. Some countries also want this as they think it is unfair.
Not surprised…the Games were always regarded by the No side with trepidation and it was determined that it would not become a total Scot-fest…but it does look petty and also not very subtle either. I don’t think anyone will be fooled by any of this.
I do wonder what the rest of the world thinks about this blatant imperialism by the UK – both at the games and the campaign generally.
Nice research on the Red Arrows smoke BTW!
link to nairnyes.wordpress.com
BT/NT: Damn, when we asked for the non-politicisation of the Games we didn’t actually think those Scots would turn it into a festival of joy. Oh well, Keep Negative and Carry On, it’s what we do so well.
If you want real paranoia what about the choice of ribbon for the medals?
Brief search got me a picture of the 1994 ones at Victoria, Yellow band surrounded by Green
link to hawkesburygazette.com.au
2010, Delhi
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1PRFC_enGB581GB586&es_sm=122&biw=1866&bih=1070&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=commonwealth+games+medal+delhi&oq=commonwealth+games+medal+delhi&gs_l=img.3…12279.14159.0.14645.6.5.0.1.1.0.110.403.4j1.5.0….0…1c.1.49.img..3.3.190.TwK_iUqgkr8#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=fygS4synWOv4hM%253A%3BSJNINY6Bn9kQ_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg190.imageshack.us%252Fimg190%252F3541%252Fcwgmedals.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D1171311%3B290%3B298
2002 Manchester,
link to google.co.uk
The point being that the choice seems up to the organiser and they don’t even have to be all the same colour.
So ask yourselves, are the organisers of this particular games sleekit enough to plan that if a Scot opts not to wear the Blue, White and not quite but almost Red purple kit that if they win they’ll still end up in Red White and Blue.
You might also ask about the choice of Red for the uniforms the helpers are wearing, although that’s probably a reference to Red Clydesiders.
liheartScotland – silly maybe, sure the fight may continue.
However who is say that the next government would not pass a bill preventing a referendum ever taking place again. I seem to remember Annabel Goldie on the BBC saying something along this line.
Hmm..they’ve closed the comments on the Games article over at the beeb.
I was watching one of the swimming competitions yesterday and the commentator said, of the English swimmer, ‘If he can win this one it will be a great triumph for Britain’ Says it all really.
Hybrid flags, mutant flags, double sided flags.
For me, the best description is ‘two-faced flags’.
Its nice, as I sit here, watching the England cycling team on telly, to see the Union flag on their bunnets.
It makes it clear, Britain = England.
Should ring some alarm bells in undecided heads hopefully.
BBC did have an open comments for their article for day 2 of CW, but just been closed for comments after 4 hours. I assume they didn’t like the bashing they were getting.
“Gordon Matheson was wearing a Better Together badge on his lapel at the opening of the games.”
You sure? I’ve never seen a pink one (missus):
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Personally I think its a disgrace that Gary Linekar was fronting the BBC’s coverage.
This is Scotland’s games it should have been a Scottish presenter not an ex England footballer.
Its obviously all part of the BBC’s unionist agenda and plan to try to use the games to promote better together and deliberately exclude Scots from the coverage, why didn’t they get an ex Scottish sportsperson to cover the games, someone like Gavin Hastings although obviously not him cos he’s a unionist.
Annie, with regard to Tessa Jowell. I would believe anything of her, she was the one to conveniently to drop Husband when he was accused of corruption with regard to Berlusconi, he eventually was found guilty and sentenced to four and a half years. I cannot find anything untoward about her son. Now Dame Tessa Jowell, another fitting reward for socialism.
Which reminds me Stu, I’m having a Bells mince round for lunch. Mathieson do a nice one too !
Is there a two sided flag for our English, Welsh and NI friends?
Anything Scotland does must have Brit approval / Control / domination.
Scotland is a prisoner kept banged up with lies, deceit, manipulation and intimmidation. The BBC and the rest of the ‘Scottish’ media run from London are the main jailers.
It was Caroline Spelman’s son that got into ‘difficulties’, not Tessa Jowell. She just had to leave her husband when he got embroiled in a scandal involving Berlusconi.
@Bunter
Did you hear the commentator?
Apparently the crowd should get too disappointed when a British or English rider doesn’t do well
Maybe we should have a separate topic for
Brit-Watch?
@Grant,
This is the best chance we will ever have of achieving independence in a peaceful manner. (They thought they would win easily).But the will of people will prevail,it always does.
Gordon Matheson was wearing a Better Together badge on his lapel at the opening of the games
That’s no a special enamel labour for indy ones is it?
The banning of Yes Saltires is surely something that inventive wingers can circumvent? Will be interesting to see the marathon – surely it is not outwith our Glasgow contingent to line the route with Yes Saltires and unfurl them as the race passes. It’s gotta be much harder to police than the enclosed events.
Crazy – you’d think we are criminals…. displaying our flag in public. Wonder if the word Yes can be incorporated Into our new saltire with the year 2014 just as a reminder when this is all over?
The closing ceremony will be interesting as by then they will be thinking there is nothing to lose.
I think we should follow the FM’s example and not interrupt them.
People are not that stupid and will either see for themselves what is going on,or soon will when we point it out to them.
They can’t do a thing about crowd reaction and since the crowd at Celtic park have already shown Scotland in a fantastic light any Boo.s ect will be on their own heads
@liheartScotland
On BBC Pravda? I doubt it. Knowing them, they’ve probably redubbed the Flower of Scotland with GSTQ or just edited it out completely
Tessa Jowell: “This is Glasgow’s Games not Scotland’s and the Red Arrows represent the whole of the UK not one particular Country inside it”.
I wonder what she thought the stuff about Scotland’s achievements was for.
Do what I do folks. Don’t watch any of it because it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day who can run the fastest or jump the highest…..etc….etc ad nauseam! All I ever hear about when I do switch on the “box” to watch the news is that Mo Farrah isn’t coming. So what!
Sorry for going O/T Defo have you managed to get a lift through to PQ yet ? Let me know on off topic I may be able to help. Will check off topic on the hour and get back to you if you still need a lift. Sorry again for going of topic. Vote Yes.
@Haggis Hunter
Exactly I couldn’t have put it better myself, Scotland and its people are prisoners enslaved by England and Westminster and the web of lies spun by them and their servants in the msm.
We aren’t free or democratic, our fate is definitely comparable to the plantations in the 19th Century.
Be part of union that won’t give such a small concession,such as omitting the red vapour, petty and emprical, spring to mind.
Meanwhile, how pathetic is this, Ed Milliband has sent his minor actor wife, Justine, to Scotland to implore you to stay in the union. Her reasons, poverty hardship, justice, inequality, no none of these. Her main reason is she once had a smashing holiday on the Isle of Mull.
I’ll say no more.
link to upholdingenglishhonour.com
Smoke story now on BBC
link to bbc.co.uk
Claiming always use red, white and blue…
it stinks of colonial arrogance and rubbing scotlands face in it, the question is if this is what they think of us then why would anyone in their right mind want to be part of a union that tries to thwart scotland aspirations at every turn. the easy thing thing to get away from these types is to vote yes. it really is as simple as that.
Great scenes in Blythwood Square a yes bus stopped. 12 people got out with Yes banners. The tourists were all smiling. I stopped and spoke to them apparently we are already ahead. I am seeing more and more Yes stickers. Went to Tesco have never seen so many Saltires. Yet out on the street the council have not put up one Saltire or team Scotland flag. Galsgow Council are scared to be Scottish!
@magnus barelegs
We really need to publicise their colonial arrogance and the way they’re treating Scotland at these games, its guaranteed to ensure a massive yes vote in September.
@Magnus Barelegs
It’s a classic case of Microaggressions. You do little things to rub your opponents face in the fact that he/she is different and lesser, but the things are so small and petty that if that person blows up over it you can then call him or her crazy or irrational.
Something the British state is all to good at. Petty antics are their speciality
If you get the chance, have a listen to the commentary on Stphanie Inglis finals match at judo yesterday, in particular, how her surname is pronounced during the bout, and then properly when she’s interviewed.
You might also listen to the commentary on Louise Renicks gold winning performance over the Edwards lassie.
Let’s just say, none too subtle.
@Big jock
Glasgow Council are scared to be Scottish!
Of course they are. Most of them, I suspect, came into politics through machine politics. Ermine is the goal, and they won’t let those pesky plebians get in the way of what they have spent 20, 30, 40 years working towards.
Several comments above suggest that the pro-union people are shooting themselves in the foot with their political antics – in these “non-political” games. I’m not so sure.
The fact that people are reading this site means that they are far more engaged than the average voter. So we have insight that most people do not. My concern is that too many people are still not really engaged. They do not share our passion and just want to live their lives. So the subliminal effects of union flags back to back with saltires, red white and blue smoke from the red arrows, exclusively English sports commentators and all the usual BBC propaganda will have an impact – for No. None of these things really matter that much in themselves, but cumulatively they are intended to make the non-engaged feel good about the UK. They make us feel angry, but they have the desired effect on many people.
The good news is that we know that if we can get people engaged, they tend to move towards Yes. I worked on my hairdresser yesterday as he worked on me and he agreed with everything I said. He had started out saying he was leaning to No and by the time he had finished he was leaning to Yes and was going home to tell his wife what I had told him. (I’m going for weekly haircuts until Sep 18 just to make sure he doesn’t slip back)
This is how we will win – talk to people everywhere you go, wear the badges, put the stickers on your car, show the undecideds (and even the Nos) that it is respectable, intelligent, moral and plain common sense to vote Yes. Avoid offensive language (including on blogs like this and on social media). We don’t win people over that way. Occupy the moral high ground.
Let’s not get too excited about the Games coverage and the Red Arrows. If we do, we give the No campaign a feel good factor. I think we will lose some votes because of these tactics, but we can win so many more votes just by talking to people and addressing the issues. The more we do this, the less the colour of the smoke will matter.
Does anyone know which anthem the English team play when their medals are awarded? I heard “Flower of Scotland” at the Scottish medal ceremonies but can’t find a recording of any English ceremony on the BBC website.
Just curious.
Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said, “Red Arrows team always used red, white and blue. I don’t think we should drag politics into this.”
Now we know, Westminster and Whitehall consider the Saltire to be a nationalist only flag, an emblem of Scottish independence.
The Saltire now only belongs to us nationalists, we are the only ones who have a legitimate claim to fly it.
@Grant,
Political causes like anti apartheid didn’t just ‘disappear’ overnight at a bad opinion poll.
People fought for it. You don’t just give up, you just keep going.and going , till you win.
Suspect it’s one of these,
link to ebay.co.uk
glasgowmajorevents.com/news/2014/6/people-make-glasgow-first-birthday/
Has him wearing it.
Not sure about the colour choice given Glasgow’s livery is/was green, cream and orange.
@Capella
Jerusalem I think?
Just checked, Jerusalem from 2010.
Just an aside
Not sure if anyone noticed that when the Queen was driven into the stadium, the car started to go up and down.
No nothing to do with the Queen. It was the car’s suspension compensating for the floor beneath it starting to undulate under the weight of the car.
Remember its a false deck that’s been placed across the Celtic pitch.
Hopefully the Queen didn’t get too queezy 🙂
Johnnie Beattie covering the UK flags at the games on Radio Scotland.
A guy spoke to me this very morning and told me he was from today a YES voter. I was going shopping and was letting the wee dog out to take her to the grass for a pee. My wee campervan has a YES sticker on it. This guy came over to tell me he had decided, that morning, to vote YES.
I asked what changed his mind and he said he had also stopped being a Daily Mail reader. Until now I’d no idea the two things were connected.
Mm too much whisky.. bedtime here.
Should mention that he’s wearing a red tie which is overexposed in that image and if you watch a video of it there’s a darker patch where there’s no lettering.
i am not too bothered about their antics tbh. it was predictable if nothing else, but it does give you an interesting insight into the brit state psyche. however the more they try this nonsense the more they will put the scots backs up. it actually says more about them than it does us.
Capella
England are playing Jerusalem. I don’t really know much about the hymn, but it is a lovely tune imo.
@Capella
Its Jerusalem – Alistair Darling admitted in the Sunday Mail last week that thats his favourite tune, says it all really.
Most comments being read out on Radio Scotland saying union flags politically motivated. Yikes.
Minty
I think John and co. are amazed at the antipathy towards these flags.
The people complaining about the BBC sound like folk moaning about a baddie acting bad in a Pantomine. What did you expect? To be honest I reckon if the BBC had went the other way and made it very Scottish then the same folk would be complaining it was just a lovebomb.
Just think ahead to a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation 2016, any current Commonwealth Games concerns will soon disappear.
John Beattie seems a bit taken aback by the strength of the comments. Someone getting a dig in about T in the Park and Saltires.
BBC Radio Scotland have been trying like hell to excuse the use of the Butcher’s Apron at the games ever since I got back from the shops this morning. They are getting e-mailed, phoned and texted by people mainly disagreeing with them. Looks like their efforts, and that of Glesca cooncil, are backfiring upon them.
Really speaking there can be no one surprised at their usual underhand tactics and lies.
any bets chris hoy comes out of retirement for the next olympics
Flipper doesn’t mention the dodgy funds from the dodgy Ian Taylor…lets bash the SNP again.
link to scotsman.com
I’m not so sure Mr Hoy is a no anymore.
Beattie was asking him about it and he was hoy was coy, saying anything he said got taken far too literal and people read far too much into it….i.e. his comments indicated to me, that he was a No….I’m not so sure anymore.
I know he campaigned to get more cycling things built specifically in Scotland…he recognises it’s a different nation…..
and again. What a lying troughing scumbag this flipping creature is, and I’m being fairly polite.
link to heraldscotland.com
Just read this.
link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
I feel soiled.
Anyone wanting to comment?
link to news2.onlinenigeria.com
@Desimond
Ofcourse it was going to happen, but I had no idea it would affect my enjoyment of the games so much. Tollcross pool is 3 miles from me but I had to tolerate coverage of it from folk from another country, who were openly supporting their national team – they couldn’t even muster a single Scottish commentator to get all passionate and excited at the 2 Scottish guys winning gold and silver. They are blatantly trying to sap national passion and pride from the Scottish people and a lot of us are quite understandably fuming about it.
TD – I think you are so far from the mark saying that the No campaign will benefit from the saturation use of UJ, English commentators and so on. There are many people across Scotland engaging with the referendum and you must give people credit. Even those who aren’t speaking out for Yes will be sorely tested with the way the Games have been politicised. And by the very ones who said ‘don’t politicise’. The pieces are falling into place for a great many people.
@nana smith.
Something in that article scares me. A quarter to a third of votes will be postal votes, according to Darling. Surely that can’t be correct?
‘Galsgow Council are scared to be Scottish!’
The sooner we’re rid of them and the BBC and the other anti-Scottish colonists and apologists for westminster the better.
These games should bring home to the people of Scotland just how low england and westminster regard us – they won’t even let us display our own flag and we can’t even have our own presenters at our own games – instead they force us to have to english footballer Gary Lineker.
Its sickening.
Nana, just posted this on the hootsmon article you linked.
“Flipper, “Yes camp tricks”
Does rigging the referendum with dodgy postal votes count as a trick old chap ?
“About a quarter of Scots have registered for a postal vote – rising to a third in some areas – meaning they will be casting their votes from the end of August, Mr Darling said.”
The fix is in.”
If Scottish skier is in the house, has there ever been an election where the proportion of postal votes was this high mate ?
A video of Gary Wilson who was a BT organiser in Edinburgh but changed to Yes. His reasoning you can hear here.
link to youtube.com
@Juteman
Labour have a history for vote rigging, they now have tories, libdems and any other troughing scum aiming to rig the vote. Seems pretty obvious to me.
This should concern us all.
goldenayr – if they are Alex Salmond’s Games then there will at least be plenty of space to put “his” windmills!
@Defo
Well done Defo. We need to keep the pressure on them.
Ah! J Beattie just read out the organisers rules for the games. NO political flags, but Union flags are fine. Jeez!
The British State will continue to undermind Scotland right up to the Referendum. Make no mistake about that.
It’s a consoling thought that all the Indy sites on Facebook are going mad! Scots know what’s going on!
Given the shift towards yes of a lot of punters there’s no guarantee that any of those in the public eye haven’t changed their minds. Got a slight suspicion about BC for one kind of linked to the start where they did the we used to build ships skit. Not sure he wouldn’t have recognised the implications of “Freedom Come All Ye” either. The main questions is whether any of them will “cross the floor” during the campaign and, if they do, will it receive any publicity.
@Defo
I recently had a reply from a lib dem to an email I sent regarding his ‘invitation’ to campaign for a No vote.
He stated luckily 60% of scots intend to vote no.
Where did he get that figure from?
I haven’t replied as yet…
We should be alarmed when Darling accuses YES of dirty tricks. Be assured, anything they accuse us of, it is them who actually are the culprits. That’s one thing I have learned about this campaign.
@Nana Smith
We need to be super viligent Nana, we need to try to ensure no vote rigging from the unionists, but don’t worry if there is vote rigging it won’t stand – the people of Scotland simply aren’t going to stand for it, one way or another we will stop the rigging and punish the culprits accordingly.
Anyone else notice that early reports on the flypast indicated that the use of blue and white only had been blocked/vetoed by UK defence minister Fallon, but later reports state that no request was made in the first place. Somethings not right there. Fallon also quoted on the BBC website that the RAs ALWAYS use RW&B. Either ignorance or lies. You choose.
And just as an aside, for those of you asking why coverage is not being led by a Scottish presenter(s)…..have you considered that the alternative could have been David Currie? 🙂
@Jimmie
Oh I hope you are right. Rigging the vote is my main worry.
Oh the irony
link to scotsman.com
‘The British State will continue to undermind Scotland right up to the Referendum’
They will do anything in their power to keep us subservient and colonised, but its too late anything they do – vote rigging, MI5 interference, politicising the games – its not going to be enough.
And I’ll tell you, as much as I want a yes vote to see Scotland free and a country again, I honestly can’t wait to see the look on their faces when they realise that our yes vote has ended their British state and that it won’t exist anymore!
Talking of postal votes.
The Electoral Commission should have monitors in old folks homes..hmm,make that the UN.
Compare and contrast,
link to bbc.co.uk
Glasgow 2014 Venue Regulation 6.18 states that no flags are allowed to enter a venue – or the vicinity of any Games venue – if they are normally associated with causes, affiliations or organisations.
link to glasgow2014.com
any flags or banners larger than 1 metre x 2 metres,
or with lightweight handles longer than 1 metre, and/
or flags normally associated with (i) countries not
participating in the Games or (ii) causes, affiliations or
organisations;.
The addition of the word normally seems like a get out cause to me. Even if it’s true that it’s Help For Heroes distributing them rather than any other organisation those flags contravene the regulations. It’s sodding obvious what cause they represent through the symbolism. It’s the flag of Scotland joined to that of the UK as a whole.
Nana, If it’s 60%, then there’s no need for campaigning !
How did he get to 60% ? Wishful thinking.
As to the fix, Stu is a registered participant, and is allowed to deploy observers. I’m in for Midlothian, and I’m certain that the rest of the wingers will be doing likewise.
Use the ‘Contact’ page at the top peeps, I’m sure our ‘dear leader’ won’t mind having too many volunteers to pick from.
That includes observing the postal vote count too btw.
Correct me if i’m wrong please.
Quentin Quale at 1:45 p.m.
I am sure you are right – a great many people will be annoyed, but an equally large number of people will not notice the subliminal element of these tactics. Nobody can say for sure, and I really hope I’m wrong, but I suspect that the tactics being used by UK Govt., BBC, BTNT, SLAB will help their cause. That’s why they are doing it. They are not completely stupid after all – cynical, misguided, immoral maybe but not stupid. (Well, apart from Jola of course.)
I think we should avoid giving them the satisfaction of showing our outrage – instead we should concentrate on what works. Engage people, put the arguments across, present facts. When we do this, we win.
So….. people were forced to wave the ‘hybrid’ flags against their will? Shocking.
The email I sent to John Beattie(and never read out).
Weasel words from those saying the union flag is ok as it shows support for the home nations.
It’s the Commonwealth Games,why aren’t the flags of all competing nations on the reverse so we can show our support of them as well?
It’s politically motivated the same as the Red Arrows decision.
They made a St.Georges cross in the sky to show support for England when they were in the 2006 World Cup.
Anyone who says it isn’t is either lying or extremely gullible.
Now,if it’s Help for Heroes,then it is more imperative that all the Commonwealth countries are included given the high number of service personnel drawn from the Commonwealth.
Has anyone got a link to the Brian Wilson Pat Kane TV debate?
We definitely can’t trust the electoral commission to oversee the voting, we need neutral international observers and our own people on the ground too.
I mean look at their list of registered participants in the referendum – the ‘English Democrats’ ffs, why should anyone outside Scotland be allowed to be a participant in OUR referendum? Anyone who doesn’t live in Scotland shouldn’t be allowed to have anything to do with it.
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
Thanks for the responses to my query about the English anthem. Jerusalem is indeed a very beautiful hymn. (Apparently David Cameron backs it too) It is odd though that there appears to be no footage of an English gold medalist being awarded their medal on the BBC sport site. Very odd.
I can’t imagine Alex Salmond ever making a political statement from a sporting event.
Someone obviously spent ages wording the Regulations so that a Saltire with a small Yes was banned, but a Union-Jack could be let in…
“6.18.
any flags or banners larger than 1 metre x 2 metres,
or with lightweight handles longer than 1 metre, and/
or flags normally associated with (i) countries not
participating in the Games or (ii) causes, affiliations or
organisations;.”
link to glasgow2014.com
Dick
The mutant ninja flags are a politicisation of the event. It was Darling and Carmichael that banged on about the games being politics free but immediately we have Fallon refusing to allow the Scottish colours to fly from the Red Arrows and a Better Together group dishing out flags.
The point is that the No side fired the first shots. They can’t complain if this does get political.
I was particularly shocked at John Barrowman’s lyric’s claiming Scotland had the hairiest cows in the world. I think this blatant dig by a gay man at Scottish women spoiled the otherwise excellent pro-LGBT message the opening ceremony was giving out. And anyway, he’s obviously never visited Birmingham.
@sinky
here’s Pat and Brian, starts at 41:20 in.
link to bbc.co.uk
I’m very concerning at possible and likely vote tampering by pro unionists and possibly the state.
I even suspect that there has been ‘dry’ runs.
I hope that I’m wrong, I know from my own research that Yes are doing well
But make no mistake a combination of the establishment/Uk Government and London political parties will do everything they can to prevent democracy
@ R whittington, here in Aberdeen daily Press & Journal Salmond monstering headline “Salmond accused, denies asking for red and white smoke from RAF” presumably it’s just usual over excited Britnat errors but confusing their readers into vote no is one way of saving the yewkay.
So usual P&J creep show for Aberdeen, although reporter does say Scot gov deny asking for blue and white smoke, so it’s win win either way for BetterTogether.
O/T do not read if you have high blood pressure…
link to independent.co.uk
Don’t worry people. There’s rumours that the closing ceremony will feature a giant papier mâché Alex Salmond waving a massive saltire a la Wimbledon. It’s going to be spectacular.
I am losing my posts 😉
The British state will fix on the 60% figure mentioned above for a No vote (psychologically and presentationally they will focus on a 61-39 No). How is that to be delivered in the context of growing support for Yes and canvassing returns in key areas showing Yes significantly ahead?
– constant repetition in the MSM that Yes are well behind in the polls (this is happening now) to gear the gullible up for the ‘expected’ No vote
– Postal voting fraud with the Electoral Commission ‘unaware’ of any malpractice
– Printing 120% of ballot papers (already happened, with no satisfactory explanation why)
– accusing Yes of dirty tricks to mask the malpractice being conducted by the British state – check
Only point 2 has not yet happened.. as far as we know..
There has been so many English commentators I thought England were holding the games.Pity bbc Scotland and BBC England do not have their own Commonwealth games programmes.
I suppose they had to run some sort of anti-Scotland article after they had to bin the pre-prepared “Nazi Nationalist Scots Boo English & Our Glorious Queen”.
Their newsroom must have been gutted when the English athletes got a warm welcome, as were many of its readers.
The British establishment, led by the BBC, are behaving as if they had already won the referendum.Showing utter contempt for the Scottish people. This is nothing compared to what we can expect if there’s a no vote.So, lets make sure that we win it, eh?
Press and Journal also not politicising Glasgow games by plastering them with the queen or any royals in fact and over everything athletic. Maybe wall to wall royalty isn’t politics, more religion for the union, with huge report about princess Margaret opening a statue to her Scotty dogs somewhere, could be Balmoral castle. It cost a hundred million zillion quid and sculpted by Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simon, in solid gold. Rule Britannia
One liners and uber bashing of AS? I think I smell Grahamski.
@roberto
There has been so many English commentators I thought England were holding the games.
This is what happens when we don’t take responsibility for our won affairs, it doesn’t just effect politics or the economy, it trickles down to every aspect of Scottish culture and society. This is why we end up with Gary Linekar presenting our games.
‘But make no mistake a combination of the establishment/Uk Government and London political parties will do everything they can to prevent democracy’
Of course they will. The opinion polls are a microcosm of what they will try to do with the real votes in September.
We all know from our own experiences and speaking to our friends and family that the yes vote is ahead, at least marginally if not by a long way – but every opinion poll still shows yes behind, because they are all rigged and fixed by the British state to show that.
Met someone the other day, related to a family member, who works @ BBC Sco, said about 600 BBC staff were sent north, mainly from Manchester, to cover the games.
She and her family are voting YES btw. Nice to know.
Kane—-Wilson newsnight
Wilson said celebrate inter nationalism twice,then said Scotland a state?
Lol
@. R whitiington that’s not fair, Don’t worry people. There’s rumours that the closing ceremony will feature a giant papier mâché Alex Salmond waving a massive saltire a la Wimbledon. It’s going to be spectacular.
Our masters told us not to politicise the games and then they do it themselves! Such is rule Britannia unionism. Personally I think that Scottish government have done great and hope they don’t get to too involved. Just let the people of Scotland show the world who and what we are and avoid all that desperate BBC UKOK teamGB London Olympics hysterics.
Re the expected number of postal votes, I believe that all the polls that show a constant lead for NO will be used to back up a NO vote, won by postal voting, if we let them get away with it.
How to stop it when the only authority that can call in EU/UN observers is the very same authority (Westminster) that will be engaged in vote rigging, I don’t know but wish I had a solution. 🙁
Also, still a bit concerned about whether to use a pencil or pen to mark my cross on ballot paper. Someone on another thread stated that they were told that you had to make your cross in pencil, as the scanning machines could only recognise pencil and not pen! (When were these scanning machines invented, the beginning of the last century?). Have grave concerns that maybe any Xs made in pen may be recognised as spoiled papers, but then again, presumably any ballots the NOers can get their hands on that are YES, (ie the elderly etc’s) postal votes made in pencil, could too easily be be erased and changed to NO.
Also, just out of curiosity, and I’m looking at you now SS, how does anyone know that when a pollster says they’ve sampled 1010 people, that they didn’t actually , say 2000 people, and then cherry picked to get the result they want to portray?
I’m away to get my tin foil hat now. 🙂
‘The British state will fix on the 60% figure mentioned above for a No vote’
We have to be vigilent and ensure that the British state can’t get away with it.
But then after a yes vote just think how good it will be to see the look on their faces when they realise that our vote has ended their state.
And most delicious of all – they won’t even have a say, it will be us the people they’ve tried to suppress and colonise for so long who will finally get a democratic chance to end the British state and none of them will have any choice!
@TJenny
We have to do all we can to ensure any vote rigging by the British state is uncovered and to try to publicise as much as possible the need to be viligent and to see if we can get neutral international observers to oversee it.
But if only westminster can call in the UN etc and we can’t stop the vote rigging then we will have no alternative – we’ll have tried it democratically and been cheated out of it that way, so we will have to find other means to get our freedom.
‘We have to be vigilent and ensure that the British state can’t get away with it.’
Indeed, Jimmie, but I confess my attention is already focussing on what happens next after a rigged No vote.
I stress I hope my misgivings are unfounded, but..
Very worrying about the pencil votes. If MI5 are involved it would not take much persuasion for them to access one in every 10 boxes and alter the X. Why did we let the Electoral Commision run this!
Expect dirty tricks, they have been doing it for so long, they don’t know any other way. A state that spies on the families of victims of crime is capable of anything.
‘I confess my attention is already focussing on what happens next after a rigged No vote’
Like I said in another post, if it comes to that and they’re allowed to get away with it then we will have no other alternative but to try to get our freedom via other means.
We’ll have tried the democratic route and been cheated out of it so we’ll have to try the route other countries have gone down when they’ve been cheated democratically or not even been able to have a democratic choice.
I’ve just read a very good book about the Algerian War of Independence against the colonial French – after being thwarted with their attempts to get independence democratically or by moderate means, they had to go down other routes and they eventually achieved independence on their terms with France caving in and agreeing to almost all their demands (including the expulsion of the French colonists the ‘pied noir’).
Gaun yersel’ Team Malawi cyclists! 🙂
Its an anti Scottish Britfest. Daily Mail sums everything up in one short headline.
@rseholes.
An article in the Independent includes this information:
But a Glasgow 2014 spokeswoman said no formal request had been made. MoD sources rejected reports that it had been new Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon that had personally intervened to rule out the change of colours. A spokesman said: “The Red Arrows are ambassadors for the UK and fly with red white and blue.”
The change in plan was revealed by a note in the programme for the ceremony which said the flyby would be in Scots colours. However, this had been changed with a printed addendum handed out to journalists prior to the event at Celtic Park.
link to independent.co.uk
So the watchers in the stadium were expecting blue&white, because the programme said so. Journalists, including the BBC, were told beforehand that the colours would be red&white&blue. Yet the BBC commentary on the show made no mention of this last minute change.
Is this normal practice? I think that at any other event, the commentary would have included a reference to any last minute changes in the printed programme.
By definition, using the Big British Nationalist Book of Unionist Bullshit, anything that any group or supporter of Scottish independence does is “political” and “politicising”.
For instance, when YES LGBT projected a huge rainbow YES illumination against the wall of the Russian consulate in Edinburgh, in support of persecuted LGBT people in Russia, that was denounced by an editorial staff member of the Swastika on Sunday newspaper on Twitter as “Using the persecution of gay people in Russia to further a Scottish political cause…”.
In contrast, when the British establishment projects the colours of the Union Jack above Glasgow that isn’t “political” or “politicising” given that, by definition, it doesn’t introduce division or faction but is an expression of unity and togetherness. Forget the fact the UK doesn’t have a team at the Commonwealth Games, and anybody who does is probably just another cybernat spoilsport out to ruin everybody’s fun and enjoyment by sowing their splittist malignant seeds of division and separatism.
Reference –
Projected on to Russian Embassy, Edinburgh #indyref
link to twitter.com
If there’s any evidence of UKOK referendum fraud, how will they prevent a second poll and a second poll with all the UN checks and observers? Electoral fraud accusations work both ways.
Jimmie says: “we will have no other alternative but to try to get our freedom via other means.
We’ll have tried the democratic route and been cheated out of it so we’ll have to try the route other countries have gone down”
……. Jesus wept *sighs*
And here is the problem. If a no vote comes out of this. How do we know or not know it has been rigged? We really are relying on the trust of the imperial British establishment. The Irish had to fight for their freedom only 90 years ago from this mob.
O/t
Can someone explain the mindset of an arch-unionist like Brian Wilson? I understand mild attachment to Britain, but I really don’t get why some people feel as attached as he does.
I wouldn’t normally turn to The Hootsman for truth but in the comments under the Darling article someone states that his London home is registered as his main residence. If this is true is he actually entitled to a vote in the referendum?
Latest begging letter from labour. Getting desperate when they are trying to recruit a Yesser….hahahahaha
Dear Nana Smith,
The Referendum is only 54 days away, and we need your help to put forward Scottish Labour’s case for Scotland’s future in the UK.
We have over 90 Labour campaign events across Scotland over the next week, including doorknocking, leaflet delivery, phonebanking and street stalls – you can find the event closest to you and get involved here.
But we’re not just out this weekend. Our Referendum Organisers are out every day, making sure Scottish Labour’s progressive case for our future is made on doorsteps across Scotland. So if you can’t make it this weekend you can sign up to help in the campaign here and an organiser will get in touch about how you can make sure Scotland continues to get the best of both worlds as part of the UK.
Even if you can just deliver a few leaflets in your area, please get in touch by signing up to the campaign.
This campaign will decide Scotland’s future – if you want to play your part in shaping it, we need your help.
Best wishes
Ian Price
Scottish General Secretary
In Quebec Yes went in with a 6% lead and came out with a narrow loss. How did that happen? History is a great indicator of corruption by the state.
Choice
Votes
%
Referendum failed No 2,362,648 50.58%
Yes 2,308,360 49.42%
Valid votes 4,671,008 98.18%
Invalid or blank votes 86,501 1.82%
Total votes 4,757,509 100.00%
Registered voters/turnout 5,087,009 93.52
heedtracker – if there is a NO vote, we’ll still be under WM rule and therefore it is only WM who could invite EU/UN in to investigate, which, of course, they wont do. (Why are these overseeing bodies only available if they are invited in, like vampires?)
This is definitely, to my mind. something that, after a YES vote, needs to be in our constitution, that the people, and not just governments have the right to have their votes in elections/referendums, overseen by outside authorities. Why should it only be the fox that gets to invite the EU/UN overseers into the hen-house?)
And, I’m sure that Mugabe allowed external overseers into his last election, though much good it did the Zimbabweans, and I can see ol’ Mugabe making great play about WM being feart to allow fairness such as he had done in his elections. (Mucho tongue in cheek there folks. :-))
It has to be said that many of you sound as though you’ve already lost the referendum.
I am sure that during the womens Triathlon the female commentator said the English contestants had an advantage because they were running on home soil .
It will never be admitted by the British establishment and the British political “elite” but we all know what they are doing, conniving scumbags. And even after all of this, they still expect us to believe their lies over more devo if we vote no and not getting to use the pound if we vote YES it makes me sick to my stomach that, that Westminster and the no camp treat the Scottish people with such disdain.
Dear Ian Price,
BetterTogether, Labour in Scotland BBC etc, say vote No for more powers coming to Scotland.
Why not just vote Yes, so we have ALL powers coming to Scotland. Wouldn’t you like to live in a Scotland and NOT be told what Scotland can and can’t do by people we haven’t voted for in London?
Best wishes
Scotland xxx
“……. Jesus wept *sighs*”
Hi Duncan.
LET them all rant and rave but at the end of the day 19th September we will all vote Yes except me as I live on the other side of the border just keep the faith.
@DougD.
When you look at the amount of child molesters in the Brit establishment, how many others are there? The British State has always elevated folk with skeletons in their cupboards. They are easy to blackmail into following orders. I’m not suggesting for one minute that Wilson is one, but you get my drift. There are loads of folk that love money too.
@ R whittington, but Dick why is the forecast polling numbers as high as 90% Dick?
Are all these people who never vote normally, suddenly coming out to vote for the No change BetterTogether status quo Dick?
And then having saved teamGB, the Union Jack and so on, are same vote No people going to go back to never voting in UKOK or Holyrood elections Dick? Keep clutching all the fake polls you can Dick, until the 19th Sept.
How your pussy by the way Dick?
It seems the lord mayors cat has come to clog up the thread today, after edinburgh daves turn yesterday.
Remember Rule no1 re. trolls.
Was it really beyond the BBC to find a team of Scottish presenters for their coverage of the Games… from Scotland? Yes, there’s the odd report from Hazel Irvine, but that’s about it. It really is beyond pathetic.
Yesterday we had Claire Balding asking her ‘co-presenters’ about the quaich that all medal winners receive, “Do you know what a quake[sic] is?” “…… Uh, nope?” “Ah, I’m hearing it’s some kind of cup… We’ll check that with some of the Scottish competitors later. Meanwhile…” FFS.
Good riddance when the time comes for you to sling yer hook out of Scotland, BBC – you won’t be missed.
@ TJenny, no the process of electoral fraud investigation starts with a complaint to the Police and they investigate. After that is up to the courts, ending up at Supreme Court and maybe European court of justice, although ConDem Westminster is pulling hard to out of that court for all kinds of neo con pressures.
So it’s electoral commission, polling station officer, Police, if they try and cheat. There will be fraud but there always is, localised but it’s there.
Not trollin. Just sayin.
What about a print run of Union Jacks with the YES logo superimposed?
That would really flummox them…
What about a print run of Union Jacks with the YES logo superimposed?
That would really flummox them…
I know I knew even from a distance it was a quaich. They were heard to say what is that little gift they are getting we must ask one of the natives. Disgraceful.
@R whittington.
You trollin’.
We hatin’.
Conan_the+Librarian – Hmm, and us, if it looks like the flags are saying YES to the union.
I now think we need to win by at least 10% to make sure. Any narrow win can be altered and manipulated. A landslide yes would be harder to rig.
Dope.
@R Whittington
You may not like it but what else can we do? We’ll have tried the democratic route and been cheated out of it by our ‘own’ state – the very state that pretends to be democratic and to represent all of us – we’ll have no other alternative but to try to get our freedom via other means.
[…] Wings Over Scotland has the full story. […]
Just for clarification then, Dick. We’ll win the referendum democratically. The problem is that the British establishment now thinks that too.
call me paranoid but I’d have thought if they are predicting a 60/40 split based on something we don’t know and the polls are averaging 55/45 then somewhere in there they ‘might’ be planning on swinging a 10-15%shift by ‘interesting’ means.
Well we just have to make sure the real gap is big enough to compensate so the target may have to be a 61+% yes to have the result show 51%.
fingers crossed.
Ref. previous posts, I too am very concerned
About the possibility of ballot fraud with regards
To postal or proxy votes.With the distinct possibility
That the result could be close,perhaps 1 or 2 percent
Either way then as little as 25000 to 50000 votes
Could decide the result.this is as little as 500 to 1000
Votes per constituency (if my maths correct).
This is “very fiddable”
The explanation that the red, white and blue somehow represents the queen doesn’t hold whilst she’s in Scotland. Here she’s Queen of Scots and as she said in her coronation oath she rules here under the terms of our laws. Royal colours here are red and gold
If it’s the Commonwealth then surely the colours of that flag are gold on blue.
Now unionists are burning Saltires in Belfast.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Stop being defeatist ‘Jimmie’.
Rev,
You didn’t really think there would be no intervention from the state that sees itself on the verge of extinction, did you?
I was stunned when I saw all the BBC commentators from down south. I had fully expected to see Jackie Bird, Phil Goodlad and John Beattie but they seem to have been sidelined to the radio.
A caller speaking to Kaye Adams yesterday morning, Thursday 24th, about the Opening Ceremony, expressed surprise that they hadn’t included Pat Kane’s song about Glasgow! That’s because it was Pat Kane’s.
I for one am glad that you are all discussing issues that matter and that the debate hasn’t descended into farcical pettiness.
@Conan_the_Librarian
Good idea. Every time I see a Union Flag I think “vote Yes”.
R whittington, we’ll come on Dick. Why are so many more people voting in the referendum?
It could be over 30 % more than in Holyrood and Westminster election and they are not voting for the same old same old MP trough guzzlers are they Dick?
Or maybe they are, everyone wants more and more for our MP’s plus expenses defrauding and their horrific warmongering and their Trident 1 plus 2 nukes in beautiful Argyll and their children starting working life with massive debt and their health care sold off to same big biz thats pays loads a money to the labour in Scotland fear mongering cabal and on and on it goes, Dick.
Or why is that Vitoil tax dodging Tory boy paying Fatboy Bliar so much cash, Dick?
@gillie
The Ulster burning of the saltire was also being highlighted in the big July 12th Bonfire.
Nice juxtaposition that the coldness of our revenge in voting YES and moving to a society where such nonsense is absent will be the opposite of the heat of the bonfires
I would wish to know the number of proxy and postal votes
Cast and the ratio of yes to no of these votes.in theory this ratio should
Surely be very close to the actual results ratio net of these votes .if not this
Should be investigated.
Just got a.. paper?.. called referendum news.. NT obviously, it’s a good read, comedy gold. For example, a trade unionist says NO.. from the Steelworkers Union, it doesn’t say if its Ravenscraig or Gartcosh. 🙂
By fair and unfettered you mean a yes vote?
Here’s how Engerland celebrates the games.
Within yards of Buckingham Palace… the day London played host to a Nazi funeral | Mail Online
The extraordinary scenes captured in 1936 show people clearly giving the Nazi salute on the balcony of the Germany Embassy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224976/Within-yards-Buckingham-Palace–day-London-played-host-Nazi-funeral.html
Yes if the MSM deny the closeness and present it as 40/60%. Then on the day if they rig it to make it 55% no it wont be questioned as the polls indicated the result above. So that explains why the no side continue to pretend it’s 60% to them. They are planning something and want to dupe the public!
Paul – Whoa, actually had to Google armalite as never heard of it and it sounds like a wee light you’d wear on your sleeve, like a hands free torch, only to find out it’s a rifle! And hand grenades as well! Heaven forfend.
I have never heard anyone on the YES side ever advocate violence, even if there were to be a NO vote. But there wont be, we will win this. 🙂
@Paul.
Try harder Peregrine. 🙂
GOLD! Superb result in the cycling – Fachie and McLean in the Men’s 1000m.
Due to the new posters threatening violence if there is a No, i expect to read about Tartan Terrorists shortly. We must be at that stage?
A lot of whinging by people claiming a no vote would prevail because of the no camp’s lies and deceit.
Maybe so, but to counter that why don’t people take things into their own hands and print off their own material and put it through people’s doors. No use crying after the event.
Please folks less of the Mi5 stuff, the uk government doesn’t need them when the Labour Party and the bbc are more than capable of carrying out their dirty work.
Many of us are working hard on other news forum and the last thing we need to hear is sanctimonious no voters saying things like ‘ah yes a conspiracy, it was the work of MI5’
Jimmie, what are you on about? Watch what you’re saying it can be taken many ways.
Wise up folks and watch what you’re saying.
Thanks Alexicon for this post. Please let’s all work in a civil manner, to achieve our objective i.e. Independence, as we have been doing thus far.
Juteman, Re ‘Paul’. It could be your right, or it could be that the relentless MSM/BT stifling of the democratic process will lead some people on our side to considering other means.
My view. Violence is never the answer, except in self defence.
Currently, we inhabit the moral high ground.
Keep it to yourself Paul.
Feeling your frustration, but giving the bastards ammunition to use against us isn’t the wisest move.
Look how Scotland is doing so well this far in the CW games and it’s only day 2. C’mon Scotland we are all proud of you.
WOW! What a start Scotland has made at the C/Games. After the success in the pool and judo last night, now we win Gold in the mens’ sprint doubles in the veledrome. Who says Scotland wouldnt win medals in their own right..ah thats right the wee bitters. Speaking of which is wee Lordy McConnel hung up his ermine robe for the Scotland colours as just saw him in the veledrome celebrating the latest gold. What hypocrites the bitters are, pretending theyre Scottish through and through while opposing democracy by fair means and foul by opposing Scotland aiming to normalise theirself as an independent country. Good old Ebc politicising our sport by trying to niggle Scotland by only showing the unionists. Cant wait for our own SBC. Go Scotland!
WTF. BBC muting the crowd at the velodrome during Flower of Scotland.
Alexicon
Correct as always. Seeing signs of a bigger eat into the Labour vote than I thought. Very encouraging indeed.
Even the BBC struggled with an overexcited Velodrome crowd belting out Flower of Scotland and the medal winners wrapping themselves in the Saltire. Team Scotland playing a blinder. More to come, too.
IcySpark – I have noticed that ‘tricky’ second verse of FoS being quieter. Thought it was my paranoia again!
Oh dear photoshopped images. Surely you can tell, especially the St Georges Cross one. Try a google search for that photo anywhere else…
“Oh dear photoshopped images.”
Yawn. Sources are supplied for all of them, and I have other sources for the 2006 England one if it’ll make you happy.
In the bettertogether games,can they at least say the Scots placenames etc correctly. Are we sure the games aren’t in Lundin?
@Jimmie, Stop this implied resort to violence in the event of a no vote. Can you not see that no one in Scotland is interested in going down the violence route and ending up like NI or the Balkans? That would be the epitome of stupidity and utterly self defeating. The people who would benefit most are the No campaign who would point to any real, or false flag, act of violence and hold the SNP and referendum process responsible.
The narrative given out by the no camp has clearly evolved over recent months from “people should vote no” to “there should never have been a vote in the first place” (note all of the stories about Scotland being a divided nation, requiring a healing and reconciliation service after the vote, needing a break from the divisive politics during the Games). Of course, we see no bitter division amongst your average person – most are weighing up the facts. We see the biggest act of participatory democracy in British history and we will see the highest turn out in any plebiscite in British history – all clear evidence that this vote should have happened. That is not how it is being portrayed. All they need is one act of violence after a no vote to put an end to any hope of a repeat vote.
Besides. The SNP have already won. 33% supported independence, stable for 50 years. Now its 45% and growing steadily by the month. Then there’ll be the consequences of a no vote….. The genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back.
I’d also have more faith in the professionalism of the electoral commission. Remember how UCL refused to back Dany Alexanders set up costs or how Great Ormond Street refused to allow No Borders to use their name. Holding on to Scotland is the Establishment’s agenda, it is not the agenda of the majority of people in the UK.
Good old Ebc. Just as our anthem finished, cue shot to the crowd and out the whole of the veledrome went to a woman 2 to the left of wee lordy McConnell with saltire in her hand and taking a photo with her union jack clad mobile phone! Wha’s like the good old brainwashing corporation. So much for non politicisation of our Games.
O/t. At my work earlier an undecided voter brought up the Games then the referendum to me. Ive redirected him to this site. He actually stated he wanted more information particularly about pensions. I think he will be in time for the revs wee blue book. Others at work now coming out supporting a yes vote men and women alike. Also seeing a lot more Yes stickers on cars and house windows along with saltires. Its happening! Thats why the Ebc is politicising our Games.
Surprised no one has mentioned another English commentator unable to properly pronounce a Scottish surname. After Inglis yesterday, we have Maclean today, pronounce McClean. It was when the stadium announcer very clearly pronounced it McLane that the penny dropped.
I think the crowd has to be muted a little to have the anthem itself come across properly, which it did but I’m no technical expert.
I’m a bit suspicious about comments about “other means” if there is a ‘no vote’. (False flag?)
All a ‘no vote’ would mean is that we must up our game, not play another game!
Interesting Daily Heil link about Nazi funeral. These reprobates are only trying to normalise their own black shirt fascism back then.
This is even creepier though, especially the bus TV propaganda. It’s no different from the BBC royals worshipping vote no stuff on the No 19 bus to Culter of a home time journey. At least the propaganda crew at Pacific Quay have options after 18th Sept
link to dailymail.co.uk
Will Wings be running any exit polls across the country? It’d be curious if such things showed around 55% voting Yes, then the result comes in and it’s 45 %.
On the subject of National anthems, at least England has done the right thing by choosing Jerusalem. I’m not a religious person but i’ve always liked the tune.
Billy Bragg does a really good version.
Yes they are false flags Chris! Some people really need to get a life, not you I mean, the fcuk wits going on about violence. Probably more in the pipe line. Is Douglas herd still alive?
And Better Together and the unionists have the cheek to lecture the SNP that they should not politicise the games.
The sooner we are rid of this bunch of F’wits the better.
One poster implies another way I don’t think he implicitly stated violence, another way could be UDI or civil disobedience.
And Dick – Yes We Can 🙂
The Red Arrows using blue and white smoke in Scotland in 1999 is a completely different context to using blue and white smoke in 2014, two months before the referendum. Using their standard Red, White and Blue – the colours of the RAF roundel – is the neutral thing to do.
“Using their standard Red, White and Blue – the colours of the RAF roundel – is the neutral thing to do.”
Oh DO piss off. 1999 actually WAS a political event, the Games aren’t. The Queen was present at both, so no excuses there. Overflying Celtic Park trailing red, white and blue on Wednesday was about as neutral as a chimp’s cock.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org long dead! Good innings though and did massive harm to the 79 referendum with his SLA books and even his BBC SLA garbage frightener. What a horrible bunch teamGB has fighting to keep control of Scotland, dead or alive. Wonder if the shills in Pacific Quay will show Herd’s vote no SLA drama again, on referendum eve no doubt.
@Alistair
I’m not implying violence at all, nothing of the sort.
But as lots of other posters are pointing out, the British state have a history of subterfuge, vote rigging, fixing things etc.
As other posters are pointing out, it is westminster who will oversee the referendum (in the guise of their puppets the electoral commission) and it is them who will decide whether any neutral observers like the UN are allowed to oversee and investigate any irregularities.
If we try the democratic route via a referendum and are defeated by cheating and not allowed to do anything about it what exactly do you suggest we could do instead? Have another referendum that the British state will simply fix again?
Lame Jimmy, lame shite and a waste of time.
If we try the democratic route via a referendum and are defeated by cheating and not allowed to do anything about it what exactly do you suggest we could do instead?
Jerusalem: a song which is basically a long list of questions that all have the answer ‘no’.
@croompenstein
Exactly. Nowhere did I imply violence at all.
If the poster trying to label me as a promoter of violence had any idea about the Algerian campaign for independence that I referenced at all he’d realise that the other means they resorted to involved (as well as violence, which I’m NOT advocating for Scotland) civil disobedience, strikes, and in particular campaigning at the UN and to the rest of the world about their circumstances and win their support to our cause – which they achieved.
Here’s a relevant quote from the book I mentioned:
“The general strike which the F.L.N. had called was to coincide with the opening of the United Nations session in New York…to demonstrate in the most decisive manner the total support of the whole Algerian people for the F.L.N., its unique representative. The object of this demonstration is to bestow an incontestable authority upon our delegates at the UN in order to convince those rare diplomats still hestitant or possessing illusions about France’s policy”.
@heedtracker
I’ve just given my suggestions – civil disobedience, general strikes, campaigning to the UN – anything to show the world that the people of Scotland want freedom and fully support those who are working for it on our behalf.
What would YOU suggest we do?
For all those who are still undecided about how to vote in the referendum. If the outcome is Yes, then the vote will have been won on the basis of hope, if the outcome is No, then the vote will have been won on the basis of lies and manipulation.
You choose, hope, or lies and manipulation.
@Chris
‘All a ‘no vote’ would mean is that we must up our game, not play another game!’
Utterly pointless if the game we’re playing is rigged from the start and the ref is in the pocket of the other team.
What’s the point of endlessly playing the same rigged game over and over if we’re going to lose every time.
@TJenny
‘heedtracker – if there is a NO vote, we’ll still be under WM rule and therefore it is only WM who could invite EU/UN in to investigate, which, of course, they wont do’
Exactly. And yet this heedtracker and others are suggesting we just keep having endless pointless fixed referendums overseen by westminster with them deciding whether or not to investigate their own vote rigging!
Utterly pointless waste of time.
@ Jimmie, you’re clearly a false flag dude but have at it. Just your language shows you’re a fake “What would YOU suggest we do?” Since when have “we” lost.
So give up Jimmy or at least try harder. Or back in the real world, shit that you’re trying to start here gets you life in Barlinnie, in the Andy Coulson wing, visitation once a month, from yer mammie.
link to sps.gov.uk
Come back Dick Whithington, youre an arse but a harmless arse.
An American movement which engages with with young voters is coming to North Ayrshire, “Rock the Vote” is being brought to NA by North Ayrshire council, its all to do with the independence referendum, NA haven’t declared their agenda, though I have a feeling its a US style no camp brainwash of our youngsters in North Ayrshire.
Meanwhile Alistair Darling is has opened a new NAW office in Paisley, the office will be the headquarters for all of the west of Scotland.
Both sources Glasgow Evening Times.
Radio Scotland presenting a reporter from RT who resigned because they are just biased and full of Russian Propaganda! The Beeb should know what propaganda means! Maybe RT are coming out soon with a turnaround and supporting Scottish Independence! Beeb getting in there first!
via @Metaknight on Twitter:
Judo player from Team England on BBC “We were told to expect a hostile reaction, but it never happened” #glasgow2014 #indyref
*unsurprised face*
Also we have to realise that this is the very first time we have been asked how we see ourselves so the ramifications of the vote either way are huge. I think what Jimmie is saying is if it’s a No and all the promises of jam from the unionists fail to materialise then there will be unrest so how do we take our cause further in that event.
Civil disobedience and mass(they would have to be mass) protests would start a chain reaction or maybe the imperialists would just send tanks in to George Square again. If there is violence in the question of Scottish self determination I don’t think it will be from the Scots!
@heedtracker Thanks 🙂
@alexicon 4:44 pm
What is the primary purpose of the secret intelligence services, MI5/6, GCHQ, special branch, BBC world service, BBC, military intelligence, privy council, and many we haven’t even herd of.
They only have one objective to “PROTECT THE STATE” (the establishment) by any means fare or foul.
Scottish independence is a threat to the state! It’s wealth and it’s power.
So if you think they play by the rules and are hoping everything turns out ok and are not involved I suggest you should think this situation through. When they are under threat they are pretty nasty people.
Wow, some seriously ‘iffy’ posters on this thread today. I hope people do not object to me giving my thruppence worth. All I can say is, as others above have said, beware false flags operatives. Just discussing ‘other means’, can be enough.
Remember history has taught us, the british State will stop at nothing to prevent Scottish democracy and independence, and that includes the use of ‘agents provocateurs’. Nothing is beneath them. Nothing. In the past a classic strategy has simply been to get people to talk about ‘other means’, as incitement etc. Please give such suggestions no time AT ALL. I will bet my life, that there will be many attempts to encourage ‘subversive talk’. Do NOT get dragged in. OK, rant over.
I did want to make another comment, and that is this, the whole of Scotland is on a high right now with the games success. yet I come on here, and so many people are nit picking over teeny details of the coverage. I know some things are important, like the red arrows etc.., and I know the BBC are obsessed with ‘Britin’, and London but some posters here, really do have the glums.
I also think the BBC blatant anti independence bias demo on Sunday is just a bad idea, right now. Everybody is on a high in Glasgow and Scotland, and the demo will not go down well with pretty much anybody, especially Glaswegians who are showcasing their city to the world. Just my opinion, though.
Even though the BBC keep on mentioning ‘Britin’, and I have to endure Lineker, I am watching the games, and enjoying every minute. Proud of Glasgow and Scotland.
@Andy-B – An American movement which engages with with young voters is coming to North Ayrshire
Andy, NAC is an SNP council so if you have concerns you could try writing to the council leader Willie Gibson. If you’re not from North Ayrshire I’m sure Ian Brotherhood could help
@ R whittington, you’re welcome.(smiley face)
EdinScot – Did you notice who was sat next to Jack(ass) McConnell?. None other than Billy Connolly
McConnell was beside himself sat there, giving it large no doubt
@heedtracker
‘Since when have “we” lost’
I said ‘if’ we try the democratic route and are cheated and unable to do anything about it – don’t you know what ‘if’ means?
As lots of other posters are pointing out, there is a strong likelihood that the British state will do all in their power to cheat us out of independence – including rigging the votes as they’ve done many times previously.
Your belief that they’ll treat us fairly and that if we keep having referendums they’ll eventually let us win is naive in the extreme.
‘shit that you’re trying to start here gets you life in Barlinnie’
Since when did civil disobedience, general strikes, and campaigning to the UN get anyone any time in prison, apart from in dictatorial states like North Korea?
Don’t you know what ‘civil’ disobedience means? The clue is that its NOT ‘criminal’ disobedience.
How f*cking dare you call me a ‘fake’, you’re a disgrace.
Jerusalem. The Secondary State School I attended in Glasgow (OK it was proddy) had us sing this every morning at assembly.
O/T the independent had a huge article today saying YES was losing because Alex Salmond was so solemn at the opening ceremony.The nutter writing the story might have missed he was solemnly referring to the tragedy of the Malayan plane and was asking for a minutes silence in respect.Could someone with a more controlled temper than me write to their editor.
Dammit! I fell asleep and missed some of the games events.
Anyone know how the Great Britain cycle team are getting on against the Ahem! England cycle team?
@croopenstein
‘Civil disobedience and mass(they would have to be mass) protests would start a chain reaction’
Exactly. Nowhere am I advocating any form of violence. My point is IF our democratic vote is defeated by the British state cheating and we can’t do anything about it then we have to try other means, its pointless naively hoping the British state might let us win next time – other means does NOT mean violence – as I’ve pointed out there are numerous examples of NON-VIOLENT ‘other means’ that countries such as Algeria have used in the past – look at Ghandi in India and his civil disobedience and general strikes.
How f*cking dare you call me a ‘fake’, you’re a disgrace, aren’t I.
Well good luck with the provocation agent stuff jimmy but you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Although to be fair, smearing the most civil peaceful democratic campaign in yewkay history, only shows how desperate bettertogther really are.
@Robert Louis
‘Just discussing ‘other means’, can be enough….Remember history has taught us, the british State will stop at nothing to prevent Scottish democracy and independence’
Right, so you’re admitting what many of us believe – that the British state will stop at nothing to prevent our democratic right to independence, and yet you’re saying we shouldn’t attempt other means if we are cheated out of democratically choosing independence and unable to do anything about it via neutral observers, the courts etc?
So what exactly would YOU suggest we do, given that you admit the British state will do everything to stop us getting independence democratically?
You can’t help feeling that the games have been kidnapped by the London BBC.
Can anyone explain how the BBC went from deciding they were not going to compete for televising the games to being the organization which has the contract?
It looks to me like the opportunity for them to politicise the games was too good to miss. Perhaps they were prompted by the UK government.
@ Jimmie, British state will stop at nothing, is also hysterical nonsense, but maybe they will nuke Scotland or stop broadcasting Eastenders or stop Simon Cowells talent thingee coming up here, the yewkay stop at nothing stuff is endless jimmy.
If there is any violence supposedly in the name of Scottish Independence, you can be guaranteed it will be MI5 themselves, or using paid touts or dodgers they have something on. It has happened before, especially in the North East of Scotland.
@heedtracker
‘smearing the most civil peaceful democratic campaign in yewkay history’
Who is ‘smearing’ anything? The peaceful democratic civil yes campaign is not being ‘smeared’ in the slightest. Which part of ‘if we try DEMOCRATIC means and are CHEATED out of it’ don’t you understand?
You may think all those many of us on here who are pointing out the dangers of the British state rigging the referendum and cheating us out of our DEMOCRATIC choice are ‘false flag’ or ‘fake’ or whatever else you want to call us, but unlike you we aren’t naive enough to think the British state will happily allow us to waltz to freedom via a democratic vote without any rigging or cheating or undercover attempts to stop us.
By all means keep promoting endless pointless rigged referendums if you want (perhaps you’re employed by a campaigning organisation so its in your economic interests to do so?), but IF we’re cheated out of our democratic wishes in September the rest of us will start to advocate other (NON-VIOLENT) means to achieve independence – as many other countries around the world have successfully done in the past (including many colonies of the UK).
Girlfight in their pyjamas is great:D
Well after reading the comments on here it’s pretty clear I’m not going to find any tin foil in the shops for my piece tomorrow.
You know the worst part about the double sided flags? – it’s the way folk were forced to take them, and then forced to wave them. Some of them had also clearly been forced to look like they were having a good time doing it.
This sort of mind control shows that the British state really has pulled out all the stops.
Incidentally in Broomhill on Wednesday an elderly couple with “Yes” carrier bags rammed full of flags spent the morning handing out wee Saltires to the crowd for when the baton and BBC cameras came past. Is that sort of thing going to swing a referendum? – no.
take a deep breath people and count to 10 ,remember there be spooks about just waiting for a story on evil cybernats plot to take over the world and turn us all into the 4th Reich.
damn heat makes everybody cranky.
good day for Scotland again at the games come on you Scots ,was it just me or did they mute the sound at Flower of Scotland hard to tell as im half deaf anyway lol
Ok Jimmie, come back on the 19th Sept and I don’t know, start your own private army, take back Berwick, declare indy from their rather nice castle and then will you be happy.
@heedtracker
‘British state will stop at nothing, is also hysterical nonsense’
Myself, Robert Louis, TJenny, Training Day, Edward, Flower of Scotland, Nana Smith and others today have all pointed out the nature of the British state and the fact that it has engaged in vote rigging and subterfuge in the past.
Call us hysterical if you want, we don’t care what you think.
@heedtracker
‘start your own private army, take back Berwick’
You’re being deliberately stupid. You know what ‘non-violent’ means, you know what ‘civil disobedience’ means, you know what ‘general strikes’ means, you know what ‘campaigning to the UN’ means, stop being such a silly wee child.
You know the worst part about the double sided flags?
Aye, somebody thought it up got them made and then handed them out at the Commonwealth Games!
The Jerusalem thing.
I said I like the TUNE. Never said anything about the words, although, as I said Billy Bragg does a good version, puts a nice slant on it.
A month or so ago someone on here mentioned that the first book political students read is ‘The Prince’ by Machiavelli. Having never read the book but being fully aware of the suspect motivation of many politicians I decided to do so.
Even before I started the actual book, this particular quote in the Introduction stood out.
“The first duty of an ambassador.” he says, “is exactly the same as that of any other servant of a government, that is, to do, say, advise and think whatever may best serve the preservation and aggrandizement of his own state.” Machiavelli spent fourteen years faithfully serving the Florence state, thinking only about power, never, or hardly ever, about principle.
Sound familiar?
False flag schuff tells us we are winning. Good!
Great work Stu finding all those pictures. Is anyone really surprised at their tactics?I’m more and more convinced a Yes vote is the only choice for any right thinking person and that to vote No is nothing short of immoral.
O/T Just heard that the parking charge at the Science Centre has been hiked from £3 to £15! Looks like public transport will be essential for Sunday’s demo.
@Robert Peffers
The Great Britain team are doing, er, great. We’ve sprayed Red, White and Blue over their sky and Union Jacks and everything are everywhere.
The commentary is especially good as, by and large, they’ve managed to keep those pesky Jocks and their funny accents off the airways and they can’t do diddily shit about it.
Pity the gits keep winning medals though 🙂
Remember ,you have to respect NO vote,you may not like it but it’s democracy,union has been around 307 years,any talk of violence is garbage,use argument,humour and facts..
The temperture is rising,bribes are appearing from everywhere,from space agency to scientific research ,the wish list to stop a YES
don’t get angry,write them down
we know 99% of MSM are against ,all the better when we win or a high YES
remember unionists will be estatic if YES vote is below 40%
keep the faith,but don’t lose the plot
@bookie – Naebuddy’s mentioned violence
what are jimmie head tracker on about?
I don’t need an armalite, my high heels subdue all. Darlings please behave.
and btw honeys – have you done your campaigning for the day or are you just pressing keys in the privacy of your bedrooms?
Rev, when are you going to make another Sensible Soccer?
I wonder why heedtracker is so desperate to portray all those of us advocating other non-violent means if we’re cheated out of our democratic wishes by the British state in September, as being ‘hysterical’ or ‘fake’, and is making up lies about us promoting violence?
Could it perhaps be because he is employed by a political party that has a self-interest in keeping us pushed down the political route, voting them back into power so they can offer us another referendum and go through the whole process again, rather than branching off down alternative routes to independence, as many other countries have successfully done in the past?
Hmmmmmm
@cal 6.51pm
The car park is not £15, who told you that one, do you have a link?
It was £3 for the day, but they have changed it so you pay for every hour you are in it.
So if you are there three hours then you will pay about £3.
England has managed to get a medal for swimming at last.
I am from Falkirk… you don’t need to tell me of ,let’s say, bizarre tactics of SLAB. And i wouldn’t trust the tories or lib dems as far as i could comfortably spit a rat. 🙂
EdinScot – Did you notice who was sat next to Jack(ass) McConnell?. None other than Billy Connolly
McConnell was beside himself sat there, giving it large no doubt
Edward, me thinks it was a set up by the ebc aka brainwashing corporation. They knew exactly what they were doing as their camera honed in on the wee jokey lordy. A right royal stitch up. It smacks a tad of desperation by an organisation that know they are now on borrowed time. Under two months and counting until we say our adieu’s to auntie and wastemonster.
@ Jimmy for the last time, you said this afternoon
“I’ve just read a very good book about the Algerian War of Independence against the colonial French – after being thwarted with their attempts to get independence democratically or by moderate means, they had to go down other routes etc etc”
Good luck with your Algerian style freedom wars and your porridge in Barlinnie, clown.
Papadox says:
What is the primary purpose of the secret intelligence services, MI5/6, GCHQ, special branch, BBC world service, BBC, military intelligence, privy council, and many we haven’t even herd of.
They only have one objective to “PROTECT THE STATE” (the establishment) by any means fare or foul.
I have no doubt that is their duty, but to suggest they are behind every little nit-picking scandal is beyond belief.
I’m not really into conspiracy theories, but I’m sure if they were involved in anyway it would be at a much higher level.
I certainly wouldn’t put it past them to do some phone hacking of the YES campaign leaders, but being every little anti Independence story is taking it to the land of fantasy stuff.
Remember other people read this site and can quite easily copy all the rants down for future use…and I’m not talking about the secret service.
‘Good luck with your Algerian style freedom wars’
If you knew anything at all about the Algerian campaign for independence, or indeed if you’d even read my post at 5.36pm in which I explained the following:
“it involved (as well as violence, which I’m NOT advocating for Scotland) civil disobedience, strikes, and in particular campaigning at the UN and to the rest of the world about their circumstances and win their support to our cause – which they achieved.”
You’d realise that the ‘other means’ I am advocating involve no form of violence whatsoever – just alternative non-violent means to the political means you’re so desperate to preserve because you’ve obviously got a self-interest in keeping us voting for a political party rather than going down alternative routes that countries like Algeria and India successfully used to achieve their independence.
The rest of us are more interested in gaining independence for Scotland by any non-violent means we can, than the interests of a political party, which appears to be your overriding concern.
@ Heedtracker, he’s only here to harvest quotes at a future date, of how the evil cybernats are planning armed insurrection should there be a NO vote.
Vote rigging/Postal votes etc …. Surely any tampering will be obvious?
At the simplest level – If in any area the postal result is different from votes on the day, then someone is suspicious.
With a little more complexity, it is likely that the demographic of postal voters is different. I guess older. Therefore there might be a difference between postal and votes on the day. However, that difference should we Scotland wide because the demographic is unlike to change much from area to area.
If both postal and on the day figures are available for scrutiny on an area by area basis, finding anomalies should be straight forward.
THAT assumes someone actually looks for the anomalies!
So how would one go about identofying vote fraud?
Would it be possible to let voters double-vote?
For example, two ballot boxes, one containing the referendum ballot and another anonymous one containing a colour coded slip which only shows Y or N.
At least this way, after the count, if the numbers don’t match up between the two boxes then it would show a clear indication of skullduggery.
Same scheme could be applied postal votes with voters sending return slips to different counting agencies.
@ Conan_the_Librarian, I know. Its probably a bit of overtime down at Blythswood Square HQ, all that Vitoil tory boy tax dodger cash has to go somewhere.
Jimmie,
Your negative mind tricks are not welcome here – Go back to BT central trolling HQ and ask for an easier mission.
Jimmie is a plant
on other thread
Jimmie says:
25 July, 2014 at 8:15 pm
‘We need a poll, commissioned by the Scottish Government’
They’ve already commissioned plenty of private polls, I don’t get why they don’t release them publicly, they would certainly counter the British state rigged polls showing that the no vote is ahead.
But I suppose if they did release them then the msm would just claim they were ‘rigged’ or ‘false’ too.
SquareHaggis says:
So how would one go about identofying vote fraud?
Just making up figures, but suppose results were something like …
Location A
Cast 53% Y 47% N
Postal 44% Y 56% N
Now, this might actually be OK because perhaps older people get postal and are more No inclined.
Location B
Cast 55% Y 45% N
Postal 52% Y 48% N
A simple example. Perhaps location B has more SNP supporters while A has Labour.
HOWEVER, The difference in A postal/cast is 9%, B it is only 3%. That to me implies something odd in A’s postals.
All the data, area by area, split postal and cast, in a spreadsheet and anomalies will stand out.
‘Your negative mind tricks are not welcome here’
What exactly is ‘negative’ about advocating alternative non-violent means to achieve independence if, as many of us suspect, the British state cheat us out of our democratic wishes in September?
Look I realise that the means I’m suggesting aren’t easy – going on strike isn’t easy, civil disobedience isn’t easy, passive resistance isn’t easy – but if the easy democratic route doesn’t work what else can we do?
I honestly don’t blame the likes of heedtracker for preferring the safe easy comfortable route of continued political attempts to get independence, especially if as appears he has a self-interest in doing so.
Not everyone has the bottle to go to the next level, many of you won’t be brave enough to do it.
But you know what, we won’t blame you, we won’t criticise you, we’ll even let you join in our independence celebrations once we finally get it.
@bookie
Are you thick? How does I post in which I, like many other posters on here, point out the fact that the British state rig opinion polls, show that I’m a ‘plant’?
‘he’s only here to harvest quotes at a future date, of how the evil cybernats are planning armed insurrection should there be a NO vote.’
What are you blethering about? No one here is advocating ‘armed insurrection’ or any kind of violence whatsoever.
Its only the likes of you and heedtracker who are even mentioning the word violence.
I am sure DAnny Wallace shouted: “FREEDOM”!!! after winning his 4×100 medley gold.
Another gold medal in the pool – young Mr Wallace – and I lip read FREEDOM!
They didn’t like it!
You said Flip says their Sharon Aye says he , got carried away says he!
Don’t know what he is saying says the boy in the box , neither do I says the other – I know says I it was FREEDOM! and from a Wallace too!
Danny might have said, ‘FFS’
Another Gold in the bag.
Nicola’s there
YES
@ Jimmie (nice stereotyping by the way)
I’ll make this simple, short and sweet.
I’ve known heedtracker for many years.
You turned up freshly minted today (as far as I know, I tend to post on the MSM) first of all advocating tactics that the Algerians used in their long and bloody war of independence.
When that got no takers, a quick backtrack followed saying you only meant the non-violent methods.
In a struggle that caused the death of one and a half million people…
Do fuck off please.
[…] How the non-political Games have been hijacked by the No campaign Wings Over Scotland _ The non-political Games […]
Aye
Socrates MacSporran seen that he said.[VOTE FREEDOM] when he won.
Guys please do not feed the troll.
Read them. Laugh at them and then enjoy the fact that they bring more to our side than most pro independance vids ever will. Never respond to them.
But do not delete them.
I for one will take great pleasure in copying and pasting these fools come September the 19th.
The polls are false. We will win.
Back on the topic of manipulation, just noticed that when Australia won a decision was made to zoom in to their flag to such an extent that you could barely see the star to the right of the union jack in the corner. Might just have been a mistake.
Iain (orri) McCord says:
25 July, 2014 at 9:08 pm
Back on the topic of manipulation, just noticed that when Australia won a decision was made to zoom in to their flag to such an extent that you could barely see the star to the right of the union jack in the corner. Might just have been a mistake.
No mistake, camera doing exactly as told.
I thought he shouted FREEDOM too but strange that he never sang the anthem. Mind, I’ve got a hellish singing voice and I wouldn’t want to spoil the moment if it was me.
For reference Rev, it’s only a Union Jack when it’s at sea. On land it’s the Union Flag. It’s very confusing so I simply refer to it as the Union Rag whether it’s at sea or on land or preferably on fire.
“it’s only a Union Jack when it’s at sea.”
This isn’t true any more.
@Conan
“In a struggle that caused the death of one and a half million people…
Do fuck off please”
Well said, don’t think I would have been so reserved though.
@alexicon 7:46pm
The secret intelligence services, let me assure you that protection of the state is their number one objective, by any means.
I have never thought, suggested or implied that they are responsible for every little scandal.
They are responsible for implementing the governments policy orders/suggestions via their contacts in business, finance, media, press etc. etc.
They are not to be toyed with. As I have said many times before they have some very nice people working for them I’m sure, however I’m sure they have got some pretty nasty bits of work as well.
If you see their various HQ buildings you would realise they ain’t no Mickey Mouse outfit.
Duncan in Edinburgh
Tellen 1 + 2
Norse warrior
Jimmie
I can’t remember offhand the many others, anyone add to this very short leet?
…. Not so much of a troll, more agent provocateur.
The British Establishment will not stop at ANYTHING to prevent Scotland becoming independent.
As Yes is now almost certainly ahead, this will mean playing VERY DIRTY.
Despite extreme provocation by our opponents, we have not fallen into their trap. Let us not do so for the remaining few weeks.
Whatever our concerns, true Yes posters here should not mention anything which even remotely suggests causing disorder, violent or not.
On 18th September, let us all be extremely alert in preventing any rigging.
If we lose, my idea of best action is for the SNP government to resign and for the SNP to temporarily withdraw from politics.
Let the unionists run Scotland and deliver the jam they have been ‘promising’. Let us see what happens then, when No voters realise how badly they were misled.
[…] a canister can’t be changed. So it was utter bollocks for that reason if no other, except as Wings Over Scotland (and others) have shown, the Red Arrows for their own display requirements had managed to change […]
Scots swimmer Dan Wallace stunned Glasgow 2014 with an incredible swim in the 400m Individual Medley to claim Commonwealth gold.
But his celebration had people talking – some, including the BBC’s reporter who later interviewed him, thought he was swearing – but in fact it was a more political message.
Wallace, who beat Australia’s Thomas Fraser-Holmes into second with a time of 4 minutes 11.28 seconds, screamed ‘For Freedom’ after his victory.
No prizes for guessing what he will be voting for in the Scottish independence referendum in September.
‘I’ve known heedtracker for many years’
I don’t care in the slightest how long you’ve known him, what relevance is that to anything?
‘You turned up freshly minted today (as far as I know, I tend to post on the MSM)’
So you don’t know then.
‘a quick backtrack followed saying you only meant the non-violent methods.’
Nowhere I say, or even imply, that any violent means should be used.
For the second time – the only people even mentioning the word violence are you and your wee pal.
galamcennalath – ‘Not so much of a troll, more agent provocateur.’ So just pants then. 🙂
‘The secret intelligence services, let me assure you that protection of the state is their number one objective, by any means.’
Careful. According to heedtracker and others you’re being ‘hysterical’ and a ‘false flag’ for daring to mention the nefarious means that the British state will engage in to try to deny us our democratic wishes in the referendum.
It certainly raises the question as to who actually is a false flag troll – someone highlighting the means and lengths the British state will go to keep us in the union, or those like heedtracker attacking and abusing anyone who does so?
Hmmmm
‘Let us not do so for the remaining few weeks…true Yes posters here should not mention anything which even remotely suggests causing disorder, violent or not.’
No one here, apart from heedtracker and his wee cheerleaders, are even mentioning violence.
And, as is clear from my posts, I am NOT advocating any kind of civil disobedience or strikes or passive resistance before the referendum – ONLY after it if we lose and there is evidence of British state cheating and vote rigging and unfair interference etc which is then covered up – thereby denying us our democratic wishes.
ONLY if the democratic political route is closed to us – as in the above circumstances – am I advocating the alternative non-violent means I’ve mentioned.
@ Jimmie
“I don’t care in the slightest how long you’ve known him, what relevance is that to anything?”
I know that he’s a real independence supporter.
Not a concern troll with a weel kent modus operandi that is smelled out within minutes of its first passive aggressive post.
That’s how relevant.
TJenny says:
25 July, 2014 at 10:06 pm
galamcennalath – ‘Not so much of a troll, more agent provocateur.’ So just pants then
Not so much of an agent provocateur, more of a (insert choice of reproductive organ).
@fitaloon 5.00pm
“Oh dear photoshopped images. Surely you can tell, especially the St Georges Cross one. Try a google search for that photo anywhere else…”
Like here for instance?
link to coxsoft.blogspot.co.uk
A London Art blog from 2006…
If its a Nat hoax its been in the planning for A LONG TIME…
@ Bob
You’ll need a bra, there’s two of them.
@ Bob
You’ll need a bra, there’s two of them.
@ Bob
You’ll need a bra, there’s two of them.
@jimmie
Just give us a break! Please!
What on earth happened there?
At least they didn’t wheel out the Krankies, we were saved that.
And after all, let’s face it, the Yes campaign has less internationally recognised artistes like:
Franz Ferdinand
Paolo Nutini
Annie Lennox
Eddie Reader
The Proclaimers
Biffy Clyro
Sean Connery
Gerard Butler
Brian Cox
Tilda Swinton
etc. etc.
So probably just as well they featured the No superstars.
(Honourable acceptions Amy McDonald and Karen Dunbar).
Heard quite a punny joke about the completely non jaw dropping event of Mo Farrah’s withdrawal.
Rumour has it he went on an Orange walk instead and the sash he wore will be on EBAY presently.
Jimmie,
“ONLY after it if we lose ——“.
If you are a true Yes supporter, surely you don’t want to give ammunition to our opponents NOW?
If you are a true Yes supporter, don’t you realise that they can use such comments to carry out their own dirty operations now in OUR name?
Whatever part of it you are advocating, Algeria was a very bloody confict and we don’t want even a mention of it in Scotland even if we are cheated out of victory (which I think is very, very likely).
What do you think about my idea of what to do in the event of a No vote?
@Conan
“What on earth happened there?”
Four for the price of two?
@ Chic
Two tits to many…
Dear Jimmie,
You say:-
“I honestly don’t blame the likes of heedtracker for preferring the safe easy comfortable route of continued political attempts to get independence, especially if as appears he has a self-interest in doing so.
“Not everyone has the bottle to go to the next level, many of you won’t be brave enough to do it.”
THIS is incitement to non-political means… that doesn’t mean strikes (strikes are political) and ‘civil disobedience means riots in newsspeak. These things will NOT happen.
And as for your ‘bottle’, can you go and drink it elsewhere. No one is going to fall for such a blatant attempt to paint Yessers as beyond politics and ‘at the next level’
We’re winning this on the arguments, on the substance and with honesty.
Back in March, I could come to WOS and read all the comments on the 3 or 4 posts Rev Stu had done that day, within an hour.
Now?
With the exponential rise in WOS’s readership since the ‘tube ads’ debacle, I’m finding it almost impossible to keep up. I log responses in my brain for when I get down to the bottom of the page, only to find, on the way down, that someone has addressed those very points.
It’s taken me around two hours, on and off, to get down to this location. And everything I would have typed has been typed already. And I’ve still to read the comments on today’s other posts.
So, all I will say is that, although I am not an active canvasser/campaigner, I paid attention to what Margo said last year, about each of us converting one NO to YES.
I found out this week that one definite NO I have been cultivating is now a YES and my ex, who was a Don’t Know is now a YES and requires a voting registration form to fill in.
As an aside…
Funny how “R Whittington” and “Dougie” have reappeared here, but no “Edinburgh Dave”.
@Conan The Librarian –
‘Two tits, two wits to woo!’, he ‘owled.
‘What do you think about my idea of what to do in the event of a No vote?’
If you are a true Yes supporter, surely you don’t want to give ammunition to our opponents NOW?
Or is it okay for you to make suggestions about what we should do after a no vote, but not okay for me to do so?
In many ways your idea is similar to mine – advocating non-political routes, in your case through the withdrawal of the SNP from politics.
‘THIS is incitement to non-political means… that doesn’t mean strikes (strikes are political) and ‘civil disobedience means riots’
No and no. Strikes are not political, they are a form of protest, and civil disobedience is ‘the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, or commands of a government, or of an occupying international power’, it most certainly is NOT ‘riots’, indeed another name for it is NON-VIOLENT resistance – if such behaviour is good enough for Ghandi then its certainly good enough for us in Scotland.
As I’ve made clear from my points I am NOT advocating any form of violence, and I am NOT advocating the above actions now – ONLY in the event that we are cheated out of our democratic wishes in September through clear rigging and dishonest behaviour by the British state and are then denied the right to challenge their behaviour through the law.
If you’re unable to even bother reading my points properly, and you don’t even know what strikes or civil disobedience are, then please don’t bother trying to engage with me again.
Dear Jimmie
Recent
“I am NOT advocating any kind of civil disobedience or strikes or passive resistance before the referendum”
Not so recent
“Look I realise that the means I’m suggesting aren’t easy – going on strike isn’t easy, civil disobedience isn’t easy, passive resistance isn’t easy”
Older
“you know what ‘civil disobedience’ means, you know what ‘general strikes’ means”
Older still
“Like I said in another post, if it comes to that and they’re allowed to get away with it then we will have no other alternative but to try to get our freedom via other means.”
Back to the beginning
“We’ll have tried the democratic route and been cheated out of it so we’ll have to try the route other countries have gone down when they’ve been cheated democratically or not even been able to have a democratic choice”
“I’ve just read a very good book about the Algerian War of Independence against the colonial French”
How’s that backtracking going?
I think you are in the wrong place. We don’t do violent… We’re CIVIC. We do DEMOCRACY.
“please don’t bother trying to engage with me again”
My pleasure.
Cheerio.
Yeah, I’m out too.
Have a good one.
‘I think you are in the wrong place. We don’t do violent’
For about the 100th time, NOWHERE AM I ADVOCATING ANY FORM OF VIOLENCE.
The ONLY people even mentioning the word violence are you and others like you.
If you’re not intelligence enough to understand the difference between civil disobedience and violence then you really shouldn’t be trying to debate on here.
‘My pleasure’
My post wasn’t addressed to you. In your case I don’t care whether you try to debate with me or not, you’re an irrelevance.
Brian Doonthetoon
Good on you lad. I am working on my fellow pensioners at my local club.
Re the trolls;
I always skip past posts by trolls or agent provocateurs unread.
‘I always skip past posts by trolls or agent provocateurs unread’
How do you know if they’re trolls if you don’t read their posts?
Jimmie (Strange spelling of Jimmy BTW)
If this is going to be won it’s going to be done democratically end of.
Now piss off and stop stirring. No one’s taking the bait.
‘If this is going to be won it’s going to be done democratically end of.’
And what if, as many posters have pointed out, the British state engages in its usual tactic of vote rigging and subterfuge and dishonesty and denies us the victory even if its clear that our democratic wish is for independence?
What if, as the controllers of the referendum overseers, and the sole decision-makers when it comes to getting external international organisations involved, they then deny us the right to challenge their deception, either through the law or politically?
What exactly is your solution then?
The BBC, while not exactly clarifying this does show up the nonsense of the defence minister
link to bbc.co.uk
Jimmie dear – such a pessimist, bless love.
@jimmie.
Listen wee man, the amount of nonsense you have put on here in such a short space of time matches the current M.O. of unionist trolls.
Your 1st few posts were implying a violent uprising.
Now, you backtrack and deny that, so how about they are screenshot and sent of to police scotland and let them decide ?
This is a one off post to you, so i suggest you use the opportunity to desist in the language of violent uprising you promote and kindly fuck off, in a “we love you still” sort of way, obviously.
Feel free to forward my post to police scotland if you are all hurt and upset, btw, nite nite..
liheartScotland you are right, none of us should ever give up.
The commonwealth games I feel the Unionist supporters are wiping their muddy boots all over Scotland. It annoys me.
We have wingers who booked their annual holidays to ensure that “they” will not be anywhere near Scotland on Sept 18th 2014.
Arranged to be elsewhere as history is made ?
Kilt smuggled into Spain to allow them to advertise – “they” were NOT HERE when history was made ?
“THEY” will not be here to act as Invigilators for “Wings” in any Scottish Polling Station but expect us to act as their muppets TO STOP VOTE RIGGING.?
When they can climb aboard a train, plane or automobile to visit a foreign clime – they can get to a Polling Station on Sept 18th 2014.
Fire is a simple way to rig a postal vote – only a Swan Vesta is required.
The absent “holidaymakers” will then come home to COMPLAIN that their postal vote had disappeared.
Having voted all my life for Independence – I will ensure that I will be here to register my vote for FREEDOM.
Watching the BBC games coverage one could be mistaken and think that Scotland was already independent. Hardly any coverage of Scottish athletes. No Scottish interviewers. Adulation of team England but a few off message comments from the EBC.
These included repeated references to the England team performing in front of a home crowd and one laughable comment about how the games would help team GB….. With the cream of the winners from NI, Wales, Scotland and……Britain.
It seems England is Britain and therefore the rest ofthe home nations are England. I switched off.
I posted this on my Facebook timeline, a wee while ago…
———————————————–
And they wonder why we Scots get uppitty!
I had BBC1 on a wee while ago, while I was updating myself Facebook-wise.
I happened to catch Claire Balding coming out with this….
Now, you’ve got to remember that ‘BBC’ stands for ‘British Broadcasting Corporation’, ie it is SUPPOSED to represent “Britain’ – it’s not SUPPOSED to be the ‘English Broadcasting Corporation’.
During this chat show type format programme, broadcast live from BBC Scotlandshire’s HQ at Pacific Quay in Glasgow, after the live coverage of what’s been going on in the Commonwealth Games tonight, she had the ignorance, or the audacity, to come out with this utterance,.
I quote directly from the broadcast…
“And they are here tonight. Give them a huge round of applause. OUR mixed team triathalon gold medalists, from ENGLAND!”
This is BBC1, which is broadcast all over the UK, including in the host country of the Commonwealth Games, Scotland.
And the British establishment just doesn’t get why they are giein’ us the dreh boke????
18th September can’t come soon enough for us to get rid of this patronising twaddle from the UK establishment.
VOTE YES!!!
And who is that daft bint, Hazel Irvine, who called Wales a prinicipality, only 500 years out of date.
Big Ears also calls himself the Chooky Rossy. Sometime he dresses up as an admiral and sometimes comes to dinner in a kilt. I think his son Harry answers to the name of Josie Wales.
Is he related to the chooky embra? (Seriously this was the answer given to the question – who is the queen’s husband? By some poor kid when my mammy was an infant teacher.)
Phil the Greek, or Phil the Fluter also answers to Chooky Embra and is, allegedly Big Ears’s faither. He also dresses in uniforms of the Brutish Empah when he comes to dinner.
And as Jim Mclean says in his Scottish Breakaway.
There’s a guy called the Joke of Edinburgh
And he’s wan o’ thae kilted Greeks
But dinnae blaw his kilt away,
For its Lizzie wears the Breeks.
Nae Liz the Wan
Nae Lillibet the Twa
Nae Liz will ever dae
For we’ll make our land Republican
In the Scottish Breakaway.
To the tune of The Sash.
Is he related to the chooky embra? (Seriously this was the answer given to the question – who is the queen’s husband? By some poor kid when my mammy was an infant teacher.)
Right Someone tell me Im not going doolally
Check out BBC coverage of the velodrome highlights at about 8:45-8:50 this evening
Lineker, Thorpe and Hoy in the studio commenting on the proposal of the Scottish cyclist to his girlfriend. Hoy states that it wasn’t the only proposal and there was another “making it two Yes’s in the velodrome”, THEN quickly said “thats two acceptances in the velodrome!”
Ian Thorpe then cheekily piped in with “thats a big yes from the velodrome then” whilst turning to Hoy and raising his eyebrows rapidly in succession. The three of them then hummed and hawed for a bit.
Seriously awkward moment which I thin proves there have been briefings from the production staff!
I DARE anybody to say otherwise
@westie7 – seen it and agree but wasn’t it Chris who said you’re guaranteed a yes in the velodrome?
@Croompenstein
Yeah Could’ve been, But it was Thorpes face that said it all. As to say “I’m gonna take the piss ‘cos I cant believe I’m sitting in this farce of a situation” or something like that
I agree about the proposal at the velodrome. On later programmes, there was a definite plan put in place by the BBC to avoid using the word “Yes”. Normally, when something like this happens, the presenter of the programme would end by saying something along the lines of “She said yes.”, but this was obviously too much for the pro-union broadcaster, and they replaced this line with “She accepted”, or something similar.
As for the Red Arrows, I was a bit wary of the image showing the George Cross, and did feel it had been tampered with, but that doesn’t matter because I have witnessed the team arriving at the RAF Leuchars Airshow using only red and white smoke. Yes, a UK team, flying at a UK military airshow, on UK soil – and not flying with the red, white and blue of the UK. Here’s my photographic proof link to flickr.com
So, we have the MoD and the UK government deliberately lying in a vile attempt to score political points in the run up to the independence referendum.
donald anderson says:
27 July, 2014 at 8:28 pm
“Scottish Breakaway.”
link to youtube.com
I’ve got an LP from the 1960s of Nigel Denver singing this & other songs like the Scottish Naval Patrol. Anybody remember him?
Johannah izatt you Norrie Buchan’s dochter?
Sorry! ‘at’s nae me. A cum fae i Broch.
Sorry Johanne.
Norman Buchan was another Scottish Republican Socialist at University, who ended up a Unionist labour Minister of Anthrax. His wife, Janey, was the Margaret Curran of her day. I can’t be more polite than that.
Actually, Donald, I remember that name from somewhere in the depths of my memory. I’ve a feeling there’s a distant relationship way back. I remember hearing his name when I was little often accompanied by disapproving asides.
Hi Johannah, I wrote and produced the LP with Nigel who is not too well and lives in Birmingham. The Scottish Breakaway is not on this LP, by the way. Your link is to Alex Campbell singing it. Also The Buchans did not have a daughter , only a son, Alastair.
Hi Jim happy to see ye oan here at last.
The reason I know the Buchans had a daughter was that she was partnered to a very good friend of mine and she was in the CPGEEBEE at the time. Don’t know her politics noo. I could be wrong and she may have been a niece. My friend was in the SWP, then CPGB, then the Labour party, becoming a full tine Tame Union official, for which I gave him pelters.
Norman Buchan was at Uni with a friend and mentor of mine, Morris Blythman, aka, Thurso Berwick, folk song writer, who told me he Norman Buchan was a Republican then. He refused, becuase of friendship, to attack him when he sold the jersey to became a Labour MP. He wrote the Scottish Folk singer hone book which was published for schools. A good book, but very safe Labour. His wife Janey, an ultra Unionist Labour Brit, fancied herself as an impresario trying to hog the folk scene for Labour. What the Hell have Labour got sing about: Iraq, Ireland, Wage Freezes, etc?
Jim McLean has some new updated songs, which I hope he will post here.
Thank you Jim. Pass my good wishes to Nigel from a long time fan if you can. I have other records too somewhere EPs? singles eg the Barras. I loved them all.
Thanks Brian. I was beginning to think I was the last Scottish Rebel with all this nicey, nicey approach. Actually the SRSM is selling Jim MacLean’s original Scottish Rebel Song book, now with a CD for £19 + P&P.
Sorry for the commercial. Jim MacLean has written a few new current songs, such as Pie in the Sky, getting at the Onionist Parties promises with a No vote.
Sorry about NOT omitting the http on the YouTube link Rev!
8=(
donald anderson says:
28 July, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Thanks Brian. I was beginning to think I was the last Scottish Rebel with all this nicey, nicey approach.
Och, eh’m no’ really a rebel! I first heard that song in a local ‘clubbie’ in the early 70s and it appealed to my growing sense of ‘Scottishness’.
As a DJ, I snuck it it in, over the years, at various functions when I thought ‘this’ll work’.
Like this one…
We used to do parties for the local Labour Party in Dundee, in one of the organisers’ houses. I HAD to buy this album, because it was requested so much.
I guess it shows how the attitudes of the Labour Party have changed since the 70s and left their traditional support at the side of the pavey. This track still gives me shivers up the spine…
link to youtube.com
Surprised to hear any Labourites played the Scottish Breakaway. They hated it and Tam the bam Dalyell wanted it banned on the grounds of insulting his Queen.
“We’ll raise Scotland’s banner triumphantly”.
Shiver time!
If the Brits win the vote in Sept will London be blamed for rigging the vote?
There are no Scottish commentators at the commonwealth games and BBC London seems to have complete control.
In many ways it would have been better if this had taken place in England.
I wouldn’t fell so much like voting yes as I do now and would relish three voting opportunities to vote yes over and over!!!!!
Truly disturbing.
And they have the token Scottish presenter (Hazel Irvine) talking about Weegie words and phrases, and having them translated into English. She really should be ashamed of herself for carrying out this attack on Glaswegian and Scottish culture. Absolutely disgraceful!
I didn’t watch much of the 2012 Olympics, so I don’t know if the BBC effectively took the piss out of Cockneys by doing something similar. And I’m quite sure that they didn’t do anything like this for the Manchester games. Just imagine the furore if they had done this for the Delhi games in 2010.
The Anglo Indian and Anglo Scots collaborators and cringers don’t seem to have any equivalent in England who seem to be all united in their British Nationalism
Can’t wait til all you whinging sods have to manage on your own.
@Gordon McGinn
I’ve not long switched it on to the games coverage for today and we’ve already been hit with a Weegie Word compilation, and during Hazel Irvine’s hosting of the games coverage today, we saw highlights of the English hockey team, followed by parasport weightlifting (two English athletes, then a prolonged interview with two English gymnasts. This was immediately followed by highlights of a squash game (an English team), followed by a table tennis match (an English team). We finally get to see another of the “home nations”, with a Scottish team competing in a badminton match, but normal service resumed with an English team in the netball.
And that was the sum and total of Hazel Irvine’s stint today. Overwhelming BBC favouritism towards the English team, and ignoring the other “home nations”.
Pie in the sky when you die. Apologies to Joe Hill
Tory preachers come out every night
Try to tell you what’s wrong and what’s right
When you ask them to tell you the truth
Up jumps Cameron or Ms Untruth Ruth
‘You will eat, by and by,
In that glorious land above the sky
Vote for Ruth, it’s the truth
You’ll get pie in the sky when you die’ – that’s a lie!
Lamont joins in the same Tory song
‘Stay with England, that’s where you belong
And remember what Uncle Ed said
Tomorrow you’ll get jam on your bread’
‘You will eat, by and by,
In that glorious land above the sky
Vote for Jo, just say No
You’ll get pie in the sky when you die’ – that’s a lie!
Willie Rennie has made this his boast
‘I will promise you jam on your toast,
Tomorrow’, he shouts from afar
‘If I manage to open the jar’.
‘You will eat, by and by,
In that glorious land above the sky
Vote for Willie, if your silly
You’ll get pie in the sky when you die’ – that’s a lie!
Working folks of all Scotland, unite
Side by side we for freedom will fight
When we’re free from Westminster again
To the winners we’ll sing this refrain:
We will eat, by and by,
In a land free from Tory Lib lies
Just say YES, just say YES,
Then you’ll eat in the sweet by and by – that’s no lie!
[…] At the time, a Ministry of Defence spokesperson said they would, ‘never trail any colours, other than the red, white and blue of the Union.” This was despite countless examples of them having done exactly that. […]
[…] But alert readers may recall that last July the Ministry of Defence blocked the Red Arrows from flying over the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games trailing smoke in the colours of Scotland’s flag, insisting on using the red, white and blue of the UK. They claimed that as a British unit the team only ever displayed those colours, something which we revealed to be a lie. […]