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The ordinary people

Posted on August 23, 2014 by

The startling lack of “grassroots” support in the No campaign has been a recurring theme on this site. Time and again, people presented as typical members of the public turn out to be dedicated political activists with a vested interest in the status quo.

The “Better Together” website has a long-running series of blog posts under the banner “Why I’m saying No Thanks”. All of the people featured in it are introduced with no mention of any involvment in politics. Out of idle curiosity we thought we’d see if we could find out a little more about them.

This, for example, is ordinary Meghan Gallacher, a graduate from Holytown.

ordinarymeghan

Or as she was described in the Daily Record a couple of months ago, a dedicated member of the Conservative Party” with a Boris Johnson fetish who wants to be the next Tory female Prime Minister – something she’s rather less likely to achieve as a Scot if Scotland is no longer part of the UK.

ordinarymeghan2

Here’s ordinary Greg Black from Edinburgh.

ordinarygreg

A Labour activist and PR man previously seen working for former First Minister Jack McConnell and then for Labour MSP Kezia Dugdale in the Scottish Parliament.

ordinarygreg2

Then there’s ordinary student Marian Craig from Paisley.

ordinarymarian

Caught in a casual moment when she’s not working as a research assistant to Labour MSP Mary Fee, shadow housing minister.

ordinarymarian2

Who could be more ordinary than unemployed graduate Alan Grant from Stirling?

ordinaryalan

After all, which of us HASN’T spent a few years as a spokesman for the University of Stirling Conservative Society, trying to preserve every aspect of the UK’s political status quo? (Basically he just hates anything with “Yes” in it.)

ordinaryalan2

Next up is ordinary full-time mum Leanne Williams from Galston.

ordinaryleanne

Seen here relaxing at home from a busy spare-time schedule of campaigning for and assisting Labour election candidates across East Ayrshire.

ordinaryleanne2

This is ordinary Barry Turner, a retired planner from East Lothian.

ordinarybarry

Something else he’s retired from is being a Lib Dem councillor. He was suspended for breaching the Councillor’s Code Of Conduct over a planning application in 2011.

ordinarybarry2

There’s nothing political about ordinary Alison Dowling from Clydebank.

ordinaryalison

Or we assume not, at least since she failed in her bid to be selected as the 2016 Labour candidate for the Holyrood seat of Clydebank & Milngavie back in March.

ordinaryalison2

Still, she’ll get some sympathy from ordinary Greg Williams, oil worker from Aberdeen.

ordinarygregw

As he actually managed to secure a Labour candidacy in 2011, though he lost out to the SNP’s Maureen Watt in the Aberdeen South and North Kincardine seat.

ordinarygregw2

Ordinary Edward Mountain, a farmer from Moray, might empathise too.

ordinaryedward

Given that he too failed to win a seat in the 2011 election, having been Tory candidate for Caithness, Sutherland and Ross as the chairman of the Highland Conservatives.

ordinaryedward2

Ordinary Conor McElwaine, a student from Dundee, has no such experiences.

ordinaryconor

Although given that he’s the Chair of Scottish Young Labour, as well as the President of Dundee Labour Students, you wouldn’t be all that surprised if it was on his to-do list.

ordinaryconor3

In the future, Conor might find himself sparring with ordinary Kyle Thornton.

ordinarykyle

It doesn’t seem too implausible that their paths could cross one day, given that Kyle is Secretary of the Glasgow University Conservative Association.

ordinarykyle3

But Conor would probably get backup from ordinary Lora Bedford in Ednburgh.

ordinarylora

What with her being secretary of Edinburgh Labour Students and all.

ordinarylora3

And there might well also be support from ordinary Allana Hoggard.

ordinaryallana

…who is the same body’s vice-chairperson.

ordinarylora2

We could go on and on, folks. But we imagine you’ve grasped the gist of it by now.

There is, of course, nothing at all wrong with careerist politicians and ambitious party activists being involved in the referendum campaign. But readers might be forgiven for wondering whether those budding careers and ambitions ought not to be openly disclosed when people are posing as ordinary members of the public concerned only with the wellbeing of their fellow Scots, rather than personal and party advantage.

After all, we wouldn’t want any more embarrassing incidents like this, would we?

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John

Have they no shame?. Lies by ommission.

Chani

Was Edward Mountain one of the audience members on the Inverness(?) debate who got to ask a question?

James Sneddon

Oh dear oh dear, their campaign has been nothing but the political equivalent of the emperors new clothes and will provide the meat and bones of many academic thesis in the years to come. Has about as much credibility as Putin claiming 101% of the popular vote 😀

thoughtsofascot

Oh god, this is absolutely hilarious! Its like they have lined up every single one of their failed candidates and decided that they must have failed to become politicians because they have “ordinary” minds, unlike politicians who have minds capable of multiple house flipping and expense fiddling.

We are a completely different species to them as far as they are concerned.

Karmanaut

Ach, now, come on… they did get *one* real person. The BNP supporter, Yvonne Hama, who they used in their campaign videos.

Tom Berwick

Well done Sherlock(s) amd Miss Marples for great research and detectives work exposing the no’s grass roots campaign as a fiction of their own making.

Billy Manson

Are you not worried the ‘ordinary’ people might look at this and think. ‘these people are all keen on politics, maybe they know what it’s all about, maybe I’m wrong to vote for independence if all these folks who take an interest in politics are against it?’

todayinscotland

New posts, please share

I’m Going With Plan B (Not That One)
Are We The Bad Guys?
I am #YesDespite

todayinscotland | The Referendum Blues
link to todayinscotland.wordpress.com

Doug Daniel

Ordinary Alison Dowling, last seen chapping on the door of Bute House with Anas Sarwar, holding that giant coin with Salmond’s face on it. That’s the kind of ordinary thing ordinary people do.

Oh, and she was interviewed by the Sunday Herald as the head of Business Together. Or Women Together. One of their astroturf groups anyway. Again, totally ordinary.

Doug

At least BetterTogether were honest about their real names. If they told me it was sunny I’d take my umbrella outside to check.

RMFBrown

Playing with fire here, Rev. I can see the Daily Mail headlines: ” Vile cybernat harasses ordinary people for lying about not being ordinary.”

handclapping

I love the way these ordinary Labour folk are happy to front the Tory campaign against Scotland. Just how ornery is that!

TheGreatBaldo

Journalist : ‘So Joe which do you prefer….Grass or Astroturf?’

Joe Namath : ‘Grass, you can’t smoke Astroturf’

Franariod

I went on bt site the other day and did the same thing. Its a good wee game, I call it go on bt & google a name 😀

Nana Smith

Not surprised in the least, after all the No campaign have lied since the start. If its a No in September I hope these people realise yessers will not vote for liars or maybe they are just too thick to grasp reality.

thoughtsofascot

I wouldn’t be worried about it to be honest. I learned from my own dalliances with the university political scene that those who get involved at that age are usually self serving idiots looking for a power trip (hence the reason it turned me off completely from politics at that time). The Labour university mob tend to be a pretty sub standard lot of champagne socialists who like to protest things every now and again, but recoil in horror when they have to do something that may jeopardize their upper-middle class privileges.

Patrician

Anyone out on the streets knows that most of the activists they have are MPs, councillors, wannabee councillors, SPADs and their partners. “No Scotland” do not a grass roots presence, and they need to show one to ensure they can cream off the Tory money from the South.

Flooplepoop

I’m just back from a trip to the Western Isles, North Uist in particular. The mood up there is a rampant Yes, with plenty of Yes signs up and clearly visible.
The only Naw sign was in the local hotel which basically caters for shooting and fishing parties, so no suprise there.
No Better Together Thanks have hardly anybody on the ground, that’s why it’s always vested interest people that are featured in their campaigns because, as far as i can see,they can’t get normal people to appear in these adverts.
No better Together thanks are desperate, if North Uist is anything to go by, it’ll be an 80% win for yes.

thoughtsofascot

@Handclapping

A lot of the Tabour proteges these days tend to be cut from the very same cloth as the Tories. They’d definitely be Tories if they were born in a country that does not have less Tory MPs than pandas. Its all about the numbers really. They see more chance of getting a leg up on the political ladder and getting into Westminster if they join up with Labour rather than the Tories. It is an unfortunate consequence of the wipeout of the Tories in 1997

G H Graham

I was at a debate at Murthly village hall in Perthshire last night. You wouldn’t believe how many ordinary aristocrats, lairds, & squires were there, looking dapper with their walnut coloured cheeks, festooned in tweed gilets, mustard breeks, gun dog socks & country brogues.

And quite the scene they made too, guffawing at the Glasgwegian immigrants like myself who had the audacity to challenge the nonsensical claims by Murdo Fraser MSP, that are still indeed 11,000 workers secretly congregating daily at HM Clyde.

Kryczek

They have no real campaign themselves. Just the rubbish that they spout. But if going by Airdrie today then they’ve got no chance. Only one “nazi” slagging and load’s of “it’s got to be yes”. The tide is turning our way folk’s, keep at it.

TD

Stu is absolutely right to point out the disingenuous tactics (if not downright lies) used by our opponents in this campaign. And it is absolutely OK to poke fun at them and ridicule them for their brass neck.

But there is a serious side to all this – the ordinary voters who don’t read Wings will not be aware of these lies unless we all tell them. We really need to spread the word about this at every opportunity so that we can expose the dirty tricks that the BTNTUKOK mob are using. Because the MSM will not do it. And we need to get people thinking about why BT etc are using these tactics. After all, if they had any good arguments, they would use them and they wouldn’t need to resort to this sort of stuff.

Stu is giving us ammunition – its up to us to fire it.

Mike

Is there really no ‘ordinary’ people who want to be associated with No Surrender Thanks?… oh well.

If there’s a no vote on Sept 18th I’ll eat mine and everyone else’s hats. Yes will wipe the floor with these idiots. No campaign has ever won off the back of zero popular support and the reliance on negative campaigning.

September the 19th… welcoming an Independent Scotland!

Kryczek

@patrician
It was almost laughable today wasn’t it? Most of there crew were the local MSP and Councilor’s.

Juteman

This campaign is a product of the digital age. The No mob have a few hundred folk that appear on the MSM. They have no grassroots.
Imagine this campaign happening before TV, and your cause had to be debated at public meetings. It would be a walkover for Yes.
If we lose this, the spooks have taken over the world.

BuckieBraes

‘[Conor] is saying No Thanks to separation because the referendum is the only time in his life he has been asked to think small and narrow his horizons.’

Well, that’s what getting involved with ‘No Better Together Thanks’ does for you, eh Conor?

Dr Jim

The labour party though, seem to be changing this ploy by now pretending their politicians are ordinary people
‘Just like us’ I feel better now…

Thepnr

Now take a good look at what the other side of the debate represents. These two young women are the future and the future is safe in their hands.

If you can spare 10 minutes of your life then you must use it watching what many of the youth of our country think and believe in.

You won’t regret it, brings a tear to a glass eye.

link to youtube.com

link to youtube.com

Patrician

should be OK to go o/t now.

Academics for Yes are looking for student volunteers for freshers week coming up soon. Please visit their website if you want to volunteer.

@Kryczek, yes it was very much in evidence today in Airdrie, without councillors and their partners they would have had no presence today.

keaton

It’s obviously dishonest for BT to list people such as Marian without mentioning that she’s on the Labour payroll. I’d say unpaid party political activists are a grey area, though.

macart763m

Oh Jeez, that’s uncanny. What are the odds of every single face having active party political connections? 😀

Colin

There is an email from the Labour Party North, on Munguins website, asking for volunteers to come to Scotland and canvass next Thursday the 28th.

Not very grassroots is it.

munguinsrepublic(dot)blogspot(dot)co(dotuk

Tartan Cyclist

That Edward Moray was at the recent BBC debate in Inverness challenging Ken Stott and Angus Robertson. His points were utterly rubbish! No ordinary member of the public!

Joseph

doesn’t surprise me, i thought most of them were suspicious cause it all seemed to be the same script over and over again, i guess many of them being failed in the chosen careers will have stupidly thought that posing for a no video will somehow get them brownie points for a re appearance in the not so distant future. Yeah i wont be eagerly waving any sort of flag for any of them.

Murray McCallum

In an independent Scotland it will be interesting to hear from people, who passionately believed Scotland should not run its own affairs, standing for election.

I used to be against all this but I’m alright now?

Iain

Good digging.

Given the roll call of failure in some of these political careers, it would actually be fair to describe these folk as ordinary, not to say mediocre. Of course we all know that’s not necessarily an obstruction on the greasy poles of SLAB, LDs and Cons.

JBS

Nice write-up about the identical campaign leaflets story in the Edinburgh Evening News. I especially liked the fact that one of the people commenting on the story – a No voter – implicitly likened the No campaign to a shyster double-glazing company.

heedtracker

Great sleuthing. Its still a shock to see the pretence going on. That ordinary Greg Williams, oil worker from Aberdeen, has been on national tv news, C4 maybe and never once was it mentioned that he’s an MP wannabe. Mass fraud on all of us.

Another interesting thing is right click googling online newspaper letters section on indyref because a lot of the strongest NO opposition letters are written by councilors in say the Midlands or London but none of the say they are.

Then you get the CiF BetterTogether regulars that are clearly not ordinary voters but lets not go there, again.

Chani

I just checked and it appears as though Edward Mountain was the guy on the BBC Inverness debate. Thought he seemed like a plant on the night. See iPlayer at about 32:50 link to bbc.co.uk

fred blogger

keaton
i don’t see this as a grey area.
there are self interests and selfish interests, this falls into the latter.
these people think that they are entitled to be served by us, and that we should also pay them for that privilege.

TD

O/T – apologies. I am in the Republic of Ireland for a few days to attend a relative’s wedding. I’m handing out the WBB to all the Scots who are attending and engaging with them at every opportunity. The Irish are most interested in what is going on and as you would expect, a majority support the Yes cause.

What has struck me though these last few days is the self-confidence of the Irish. They are comfortable in themselves and they have no doubts about who and what they are. That is not to say that everything is good in Irish society – it isn’t. But they know that to the extent that things go wrong it is down to them. They don’t blame anyone else. And they also take credit for the things they get right. They do not owe allegiance to anyone other than their own national institutions. They take pride in themselves. They don’t do “I’m proud Irish but…”

It is frankly like a breath of fresh air compared to the confused identity that many in Scotland have. The Irish are not looking back to their days in the UK with regret at leaving. They wouldn’t dream of going back. I so want to be like them.

Jamie Arriere

Any news about the supposed Labour Party gathering at the Emirates arena last night? Did they have enough folk for a game of mixed doubles?

HandandShrimp

It is a top down campaign and they are pretty much stuck with the party faithful because let’s face it if they do go for “ordinary people” they may well find that they have just tapped into the hard core loyalist contingent. At least the party members and activists are not going to go off on one on Twitter…OK Ian Smart springs to mind, so scrub the last bit 😉

Taranaich

‘[Conor] is saying No Thanks to separation because the referendum is the only time in his life he has been asked to think small and narrow his horizons.’

Poor Conor has it completely backwards. What narrower horizon is there than choosing to be 8.7% of a state instead of 100%, choosing to be a region rather than a country, and choosing to leave everything that matters to your superiors in the south? Surely choosing to be your own nation on the world stage is thinking bigger and broadening your horizons?

Thepnr

@Taranaich

Yes, think BIG. Think forward, think of the possibilities and think of the look on the faces of the naysayers on the 19th September.

Happy thoughts.

Bugger [the Panda]

They are fighting hard for the Union.

The Gravy Boat Union.

Sam Mitchell

Brilliant expose….. you cant beat this…. why do the other members of the media not investigate this farce… especially the bbc…
their duplicity knows no end… they will & cannot fight fair… they can see that they just need to show “”ordinary “” folk “”” who are anything but ordinary and who are active in being or wannabes on the GRAVY train… its not in the least fair…. it’s almost criminal as its a form of fraud…

Alice H

I also spotted “ordinary” farmer Edward Mountain as part of the audience in the last BBC referendum debate in Inverness. James Cook handily picked him out to ask Angus Robertson a question.

Moravian

Actually, that’s Major (Rtd) Sir Edward Mountain 4th Bt, late Blues & Royals.

[…] « The ordinary people […]

piggy

Exposure of deceit continues.

Good work.

Clootie

The way Labour and Tories have been working together is impressive – it’s as if they have no real difference in values!

chossy

This is a chuffa article, sorry. I know what you are getting at in that these people are presented as joe bloggs from down the road, but no-one is, during this campaign. It’s not a bad thing to be politically active and associate with a party in fact it’s healthy and great that people are politically active. However articles like this which serve only to demonise the person are not worthwhile. You can mask it how you like, saying it is another example of how the NO campaign are pulling the wool over peoples eyes, but in truth they are not. They are merely presenting some people who are going to vote no, they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing. These articles should stop they serve no purpose other than to stir up trouble where none exists.

Minty

BTUKOKNOThanks have been chapping the doors in North Edinburgh today. The two nice young folk that turned up at my door appeared to be on a day trip up from Newcastle, they seemed a bit downcast at the response they were getting.

muttley79

Just read this tweet from Euan McColm about Derek Bateman and Magnus Gardham:

magnus is a great journalist. bateman’s a mediocre hack turned full on zoomer.

You just cannot make up what McColm comes out with! 😀 😀 😀

Nana Smith
Luigi

The great thing about the YES campaign is that it is bringing together a whole load of people of diverse backgrounds, different political beliefs, professions, earning brackets etc in a way that I have never seen before. We are all Scottish and it is a great feeling. Yes, political parties sometimes achieve this in small ways, even BT can bring a few groups together (although it always seems to look forced and/or manufactured). However, the sheer scale of this coming together in the YES campagn, and the discourse is amazing. Things are never going to be the same again, whatever happens next month. Scotland is a different place. Wonderful.

Papadox

The tragic soles in your piece are being used by the unionist as they are all believing their own lies, a very dangerous thing to do, and are being groomed for a life at the Westminster trough, or cannon fodder for the troughers, to climb over.

They have forgotten the old saying: ” WHEN YOU ARE DAFT, YOUR THE LAST ONE TO FIND OUT”

les Wilson

Their trouble is that we are ascending. They are stuck with their lies and deceit. Desperate people do desperate things, so all this is par for the course.

Made all the more difficult with things like this from Wings, hell mend them.

Wilma

so glad I’m not ordinary

Patrician

It isn’t attacking the person but rather the way the person is portrayed by “No Scotland”. Would it have been so hard to say such-and-such, a member of whatever party, votes no.

Patrician

sorry that last reply was for @chossy.

Bugger [the Panda]

Chossy

Is that you in one of the photos?

This is getting a bit Last Supperish, when can we expect the crowing of the cockrell?

Edward

muttley79
This from Paul Hutcheon on McColm’s twitter feed :

“Just read @DerekBateman2’s appalling piece on the Herald’s fine Political Editor Magnus Gardham
#teammagnus”

Joke or is Hutcheon being just a tad idiotic?

Sydthesnake

why do the BT muppets keep talking up this
“Best of both worlds” crap
we will end up with both worlds right enough but it won’t be Best, this world and a past world gone by, of the dickens era, soup kitchens, food banks, we NEED to rid ourselves of these dangerously warped minds only out for self gratification.

YES, Must prevail

Robert Peffers

Join bitter together where extraordinary become just ordinary or join the YES campaign where the ordinary have become very extraordinary.

Gawn yersels YESSERS.

PeeGee

P Hutcheon will suck any political cock for money. Tenth rate, “journalist” with truth telling problems.

Moreida Lord

Stu… You’ve done it again. What a brilliant expose of the tactics lies and manipulation of the No camp. The article must be RT as often as necessary, so everyone can judge this for themselves.

Nana Smith
goulashman

Thank you so much for this. I am new to Wings and am finding it most helpful in discussing indy issues with friends and family. This information will be potent in explaining the naked political self-interest and quite worrying deviousness of NO. The kind of cynical attitude represented buy NO, its shameless use of any tactic, fair or foul, mostly foul, abetted as it is by a rightest press and an increasingly uniform rightest Westminster politic shows the dangers to which Scotland will be exposed in the event of a NO victory. With heart, mind and soul I will vote YES – we are in the Last Chance Saloon.

Marian

The Better Together “grassroots support” is similar to the military parades through Red Square during the Cold War as when the tanks, rockets and marching troops left the square they marched round a few blocks and changed a few flags and banners and then marched right on back through Red Square again giving the impression that vast numbers were there when the reality was only a few thousand.

macart763m

@muttley 79

They really don’t like being held to account do they? They reckon that’s their job and somehow they’re untouchable, unaccountable for what they write.

After this campaign the likes of messrs McColm and Gardham need to be fully aware that they are no longer trusted. They don’t represent any ethic of objectivity I recognise and frankly if I reckon they’re writing a load of biased, misleading pish, I reserve the right to withhold my support for any title they happen to be peddling said pish in. Right now there isn’t a title in this country I’d waste a brass tack on. When they go, they won’t be missed.

Nana Smith

@goulashman

Welcome to Wings!

fred blogger

Nana Smith
“Government scraps HS2 after business leaders agree to arrange meetings 20 mins later”
link to tompride.wordpress.com
yes indeed, a complete waste of money, for all concerned esp scotland!
with indy, we can stop being forced to subsidize the hair brained schemes of WM.

goulashman

Thanks, Nana:)!

Robert Peffers

@Clootie says: 23 August, 2014 at 5:10 pm:

“The way Labour and Tories have been working together is impressive – it’s as if they have no real difference in values!”

Whattcha mean, “AS IF”,, Clootie?

Democracy Reborn

@Edward
@Mutley79

Re Derek Bateman’s blog

That’s now Hutcheon, Roden & McColm all tweeting to the defence of poor Gardham. It’s like the circling of the wagons. Derek has obviously touched a raw nerve. What he wrote about the MSM, & Gardham in particular, is so self-evidently true. Note that they choose to diss Derek’s ability as a journalist than deny the veracity of what he writes. Rather proves one of the points Derek makes : BT & their MSM acolytes would rather play the man (Salmond) than meaningfully engage in the issues.

muttley79

@Macart

McColm, Cochrane, Hutcheon, Gardham, Crichton, Peterkin, Carroll, Naughtie etc are all dinosaurs, ardent and diehard unionists, who have absolute contempt for independence representatives and supporters. Hutcheon asked Blair Jenkins how much he was getting paid in an interview a few weeks ago. Would he ask Darling about his house flipping, his pocketing of private health care money? Would he fuck. Heaven forbid, but if there is a No vote, there should be a mass boycott of these individuals’ newspapers. They deserve it for the way they have acted.

Roberto Esquierdo

What all the contributors of Wings must realise is that these people in the no camp are fighting to hang on to their
British identity for various reasons but mostly financial . These people will stop at NOTHING to maintain that identity

There will be worse to come once they fall behind in the polls

Dal Riata

@Chossy

From Urban Dictionary-

chuffa

noun – the erroneous bullshit of a script for a movie when doing dailies. Bruce Willis coined the phrase and uses it when shooting films when he gets rid of the unwanted dialogue or actions.

Eh… Oh, aye, right ye are. Anyway…

“… articles like this which serve only to demonise the person are not worthwhile.”

“demonise”? Seriously? I read no demonising of any of the ordinary people [sic]. Could you perhaps return to show us examples of ‘demonising’?

“You can mask it how you like, saying it is another example of how the NO campaign are pulling the wool over peoples eyes, but in truth they are not.”

Again, seriously? You say, “but in truth they are not.” (the No campaign pulling the wool over people’s eyes). Sorry, but in truth, they are. By being deceitful and ‘economical with the truth’.

They are merely presenting some people who are going to vote no, they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing.

No, “they” are not “merely presenting some people who are going to vote no…”. You are being deliberately disingenuous.

“… they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing.”

The “bad thing” is that the No campaign is using these people in a dishonest manner, posing them as “ordinary people”. Most ordinary people are not ex- or on-going councillors or election candidates for the Labour party. Yet again Better Together being very ‘economical with the truth’.

These articles should stop they serve no purpose other than to stir up trouble where none exists.

ROFL! Ach, ye’ve been trolling all along… Tsk!

R-type Grunt

“Clydebank AND Milngavie”? I wonder what the good people of Clydebank think of that slur.

Good work again Stu.

john

Should keep this. I would LOVE to see how many of them succeed in coming through the ranks!!!hahaha

Robert Peffers

chossy says: 23 August, 2014 at 5:12 pm:

”This is a chuffa article, sorry. I know what you are getting at in that these people are presented as joe bloggs from down the road, but no-one is, during this campaign.

Oh! Come on, Chossy, that’s pure, rectally sphinctered, bovine waste matter. You are either completely loopy or deliberately deflecting the obvious truth. No one who is out there on the streets is apolitical but there is a difference in that these, “Changeling”, ordinary activists are not ordinary party members or supporters they are past office holders, councillors, ex-councillors, MPs\MSPs\MEPs , ex-MPs\MSPs\MEPs ex-candidates and members of associated party affiliates.

They are in effect actual members of, “The Establishment”, fighting for their own selected spot at the feeding trough. Let me ask you a question – How many ordinary paid-up members of the Labour Party, Trade Union political levy payers or paid up members of the Tory or Lib-Dem party are out there on the street? Remember that all political parties publish their membership figures.

Nana Smith
alexicon

Been to the local Falkirk YES stall today and believe me it was very busy with people from all walks of life.
The local no campaigners, who are really Tories from Stirling, were there too, but all they’re visitors were pensioners that already had their pensions without working the extra years.
I’m all right Jack fuck you is what these pensioners are really doing.
Any chance of you all giving the very hard working YES team at Falkirk a thumbs up for all the work they are doing.

link to facebook.com

C’mon guys.

P.R.D.

Hope an independent Scotland rids itself of the socio-political stagnation of the dedicated political activists but that will take a bigger political shift in attitude than even that of the YES movement.

But I fear that we will end up with the same lack of social mobility as there is now, there is no reason to think that independence alone can break the socio-political stagnation that plagues Scotland, indeed it could even strengthen the grip of the dedicated political activists.

Caroline Corfield

Just for a bit of balance, I feel that I must point out at one point I was the Honorary Secretary of the Student Representative Council at Paisley College of Technology, I therefore had a position on the executive committee, 30 years ago. I was awarded a lifetime membership of the student union. At around the same time I was active and a party member of the Labour party, going round doors in Paisley on behalf of Labour MPs and candidates that couldn’t be arsed themselves.

I’d not actually consider myself particularly ordinary when it comes to political activism, I’ve been on marches, occupied sites, signed petitions, wrote to my MPs and withheld my poll tax.

Ordinary as interpreted by a person is very subjective, everyone may well consider themselves ordinary, but in this political example, their political life is patently not that of an ordinary member of the public. I suspect an ordinary person’s political activism is that they vote, I suppose in some wards it may be that they don’t vote.

I can’t think of a situation prior to the grass roots Yes campaign with the exception of the poll tax demos where people who usually just voted, got more politically active.

Politically interested people being interested in politics isn’t news unless as in this case they are by their nondisclosure being economic with the truth.

JWil

It would be interesting to know the backgrounds of some of the more vociferous NOs who appear in the audiences of BBC debates with questions. Can we have a question from the guy with the blue tie, as the BBC compere might say.

Caroline Corfield

P.R.D. :
I think the “I kent his faither” will get stronger in a smaller population, connections between people and their elected representatives will be closer by default, hopefully the idea that someone who is incompetent can make a career out of representing people badly will be seen for what it is, and the days of the donkey in the rosette will be numbered. The defence that the donkey is at least on our side in a hostile parliament will be much harder to make: aside from the quite appalling behaviour after the SNP majority it was a lovely thing to see a parliament indulging in respect and consensus for the good of the country. I hope it will return.

Sydthesnake

JWil
I think these television debates have definitely got plants, I’m sure when the last debate was on Ponsoby pointed to a guy to ask his question, the guy started to ask his question, but was stopped mid sentence, “not you the man directly behind you” said Ponsonby, they guy from behind then tried to character assassinate Salmond???

joe kane

Better Together must be one of the greenest political campaigns in history given all the same crap, from the same people it constantly and diligently recycles day in and day out.

BT is the London-centric British Establishment in a nutshell. Back-scratching endorsements for each other; pretending to be mortal enemies when they’re nothing of the sort; and think they’re so bloody clever in fooling the public into imagining that they give a shit about them and their unimportant little lives in unimportant culture-less backwaters like Motherwell. They only turn up in these Scottish hell-holes for photo-ops and if any local dares ask them awkward questions they get demonised as abusive nats and the like. After all, these uppity local oiks should know their place.

Anyway, Scottish Pound worth more than ordinary Pound according to some in the Hong Kong financial market –
Scottish independence gets boost from Hong Kong’s money markets
South China Morning Post

Croompenstein

Was at my sisters today and she told me that she has applied for a proxy vote for my 96 year old housebound Nana. I hadn’t spoken to my Nana about the referendum as she’s a bit hard of hearing and we tend to keep it small talk. I must admit I thought she would be a no as her and my Papa, sadly passed, were old Scot Tory’s not the Thatcher neo-lib types but the old 50’s style Scot Tory.

But to my surprise my sister informed me that she is voting yes, I wondered why and was told well she couldn’t bring herself to vote against her country and that since she is nearing the end of her life she wants to give the young folk the chance she never had. I kinda welled up and thought yes my 96 year old Nana at last has the power to decide her nations future.

HandandShrimp

I haven’t read Derek’s piece yet but if it has mindless reactionary hacks like Roden and McColm twitching then I need to mark it on my to do list.

Grouse Beater

My friends of Scotland here will find Ian Bell’s column in today’s (Saturday) Herald an excellent companion piece to Wings forensic investigation of the No’s sorry parade of bogus ‘ordinary’ members of the public.

On that subject – they are all well set up portraits, the subjects posing – a sure giveaway to the the alert.

Croompenstein

I should have added although she’s 96 my Nana is an ordinary voter but an extraordinary woman

neil allan

What is the point of all this? That none of the Yes Activists (sorry boys but not too thick on the ground in east Scotland) have no previous affinity to any political party? I am a no activist but have not a been a memebr of any political party these 30 years

Neil Allan

bald eagle

Caroline Corfield

I hope you don’t mind me asking have you got a family member
named joe older than you maybe father in law that worked in glasgow in the 70-80s

Grouse Beater

Caroline: I think the “I kent his faither” will get stronger in a smaller population,

Well, speaking only out of personal experience, I have had that cobwebbed denigrator tossed at me a few times in my work so far, but when asked to speak at a Yes evening (my one invitation, sniff) I was introduced as a ‘polymath.’ It made me very happy. I regarded it as a sign my nation was growing up.

Nana Smith

@Croompenstein

Your Nana is a wise woman. She knows we are YES for generations to come.

Croompenstein

Thanks Nana

Croompenstein

@neil allan –

I am a no activist

Since you’re on neil could you please please give me one positive case for the union and why we are better together?

HandandShrimp

Neil

We are Yes activists but a fair few of us are not particularly party political. I have never joined a political party in all my days and I have voted Labour, SNP, Green and even Liberal over the years. The Yes side can easily muster people like me. It is a continual surprise that No stick so rigidly to people that are so heavily involved in their own specific parties. They must have less affiliated people too.

It seems to me like a lack of trust and a top down approach to campaigning.

Nana Smith

This will make you smile…

link to weourselves.com

galamcennalath

Awww, don’t you just feel sorry for them?

No one little bit! These individuals have chosen party allegience over what’s best for their country. They will look back on this and feel ashamed of themselves.

Sydthesnake

Neil Allan, as a No Supporter surely you must be sick and tired of all the negative things BT are coming out with, if they thought this “fear the public into voting NO tactic” would work then they are surely wrong, they have become a one trick pony, they keep banging on about the Pound, there are much more important issued than this, what’s their plan B for a yes vote?
you have the floor convince me.

Croompenstein

@Nana – looks like someone is in the market to mint our new Scottish currency…

link to scotmint.com

Nana Smith

@Croompenstein

Ooooh shiny new things for a shiny new beginning….YES

tartanfever

Neil Allan:

The point is they are being paraded as ‘ordinary public’ by BT when they are in fact party activists.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

john king

Just whats so wrong with the REAL ordinary voters who clearly Do support no? why are they not keen to get their opinions?
is it because every time they ask them for an opinion it is either anti catholic, anti protestant, anti someone, and doesn’t fit with the (inclusive) theme about family they would love us to swallow?

O/T
I went to Leith today and saw some incredible people who were out in the pissing rain manning stalls for National Collective, Academics for Yes, English Scots for Yes, The Yes Campaign, Labour for Independence,NHS for Yes and many more, in spite of my wifes walking difficulties she just had to see more people and visit all the stalls, everyone was asking why Wings didnt have a stall? I saw a certain wingers wee sports car car on Leith walk but I didnt see him, everyone was asking about the WBB.

shug

does anyone have a suitable list of quotes

Milliband/Brown/Lamont – supporting right wing policies, cuts, imigration etc

same for the others

john king

PeeGee @ 5.40 wind it in mate.

tartanfever

John,

Sounds like it was a great day despite the weather. Well done you and the mrs.

That’s a good point about the WBB, I’m not sure where we are with it. I’m in South Lanarkshire, have a car and plenty of free time and would be happy to help putting them through letterboxes.

Do we need a new thread on the website where we can volunteer services or has that discussion already taken place and I missed it (most likely) ?

Nana Smith

UKOK were handing out these disgusting leaflets today.

link to twitter.com

tartanfever

Shug,

Rachel Reeves, (Labour) Shadow Work and Pensions minister:

‘Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits, promises new welfare chief.
Rachel Reeves vows to cut welfare bill and force long-term jobless to take up work offers or lose state support’

link to theguardian.com

Thepnr

@Croompenstein

Well done to your Nana, one women, one vote but they all count.

Give her my thanks for believing that the Scottish people can prove to be more capable at running their country than the lot we often never elect.

Your Nana may be ordinary but her vision is remarkable.

laukat

I was at NHS for yes today at the Victoria Infirmary and it was interesting in that there was maybe 60 people there. However the thing that caught my eye was that the adults feel comfortable enough to bring their kids knowing that the atmosphere will be fun and friendly. Its not the first Yes event I have been to and they always have the same mix of adults and kids.

It made me think why you never see this at No events? Is it further confirmation that their campaign is only attended by political wannabees or has the potential to be attended by people you wouldn’t want your kids to mix with?

Croompenstein

@thepnr – Cheers pnr it was a nice shock for me to learn that she is voting yes and it got me quite emotional

mr thms

Three year old article but still relevent

link to epcengineer.com

“BP and its partners are developing four new oil and gas projects that together will involve a total investment of almost £10 billion in the UK’s oil industry over the next five years and help to maintain BP’s production from the North Sea for decades to come.”

continues..

Croompenstein

OT – Watching Dr Who but I wonder if I’ll still be allowed to watch it 4 weeks tonight?

Grouse Beater

We won’t be able to see ‘Dr Who’ and he’s played by a Scot!

How the unionists rub salt in the wound!

mr thms

From last year.. so more relevant 😉

link to epcengineer.com

“Edward Davey, Energy and Climate Change Secretary, said: “This announcement by BP of a two year appraisal programme for the Greater Clair area West of Shetland is excellent news. It shows the industry’s commitment to maximise the potential in this area, which could hold up to 17% of our oil and gas reserves.

“Greater Clair proves there is still a long future for oil and gas production in the North Sea and will give confidence to new recruits that the industry offers a career for life.””

Kev

It really makes you scratch your head and wonder what true support they actually have amongst the population. If the folk on their website aren’t genuine, their “grassroots” campaigners are bussed up and paid, their public meetings are actually private, the polls are hugely flawed, the only folk who are genuinely No seem to be the staff of our media and newspapers.

Sydthesnake

Croompenstein, definitely not, with that pesky Scottish bloke it will be outlawed

mr thms

# Croompenstein

Unfortunately the BBC Charter expires 31/12/2016

Sydthesnake

come 01/01/2017 SBC?

Sydthesnake

without any of the current liars hopefully

Graeme Doig

John King

Agreed. Pee Gee at 5.40. Not clever mate.

crazycat

@ tartanfever

I was in Strathaven today at a Women for Independence stall; I believe the copies of the WBB we were offering people came from the Lanark hub.

You could ask them whether they have a distribution strategy, perhaps.

Graeme Doig

O/T

Wee reminder about Brian Nixon’s petition on 38Degrees calling for fairness in BBC debate.
Probaby pissin in the wind but needs a few hundred hits to reach 3000 target.
Sorry for lack of link. Will need to get a ‘link’ lesson asap.

john king

Laukat @7.50
Absolutely bang on the money.

BuckieBraes

@Nana Smith
Those leaflets might merit closer examination – Rev?

bald eagle

who cares about dr who

i’m still sitting by the phone waiting for my love call from davy

lesley anne will you hurry up with the photos of rorys wishing well

heres a message for the unionists

FUCK OFF AND WHEN YOU GET THERE FUCK OFF FROM THERE TOO AND IF YOU COME BACK YOU CAN FUCK OFF AGAIN FUCKWITS

Croompenstein

@Graeme – here it is..

link to you.38degrees.org.uk

and the Dr is getting a few subliminal digs in…

Nana Smith
cynicalHighlander

@shug

Lamont

Something for nothing and Scots aren’t programed to make decisions or similar.

Graeme Doig

Thanks again folks 🙂

john king

Graeme
re creating links, if you put you mouse on the address bar at the top of the screen and hold down the left button and pull the mouse over the address pulling it to the left from right, you will see the address turn blue then you press control and c (both at the same time) to copy it then go to your post and press control and v (both at the same time) to paste it and the link will appear on you post, if it is text leave the address as it is, if it is a youtube video take out the http:// when you paste the link in or the rev has you eviscerated, and thats when he’s in a good mood. 🙂
it would seem when you leave the http:// in,(only with a youtube video) it embeds the video and makes the rev’s life hell apparently. 🙁

Onwards

@Croompenstein

“..to my surprise my sister informed me that she is voting yes, I wondered why and was told well she couldn’t bring herself to vote against her country..”

I think a lot of NO minded voters are going to have this feeling, and that’s why I hope the polls might show a big swing for YES on the day.

Even if they are unsure, or even if they think we might be slightly poorer at first, it’s going to be a hard thing to vote against the independence of your country.

It’s like an admission that we aren’t good enough to step up and take our own place in the world.

I imagine this is why BT will be pushing the postal votes hard – because of doubts on the day.

Who wants to tell their children or grandchildren that they voted against Scotland becoming a normal country, because they were a bit scared ?

cynicalHighlander

Re Change 38 I stopped subscribing when previously they chickened out from running a similar petition re the BBC a few years ago as it didn’t suit their own personal agenda even though it was the most voted next subject.

cynicalHighlander

Re Change 38 I stopped subscribing when previously they chickened out from running a similar petition re the BBC a few years ago as it didn’t suit their own personal agenda even though it was the most voted next subject.

fred blogger

cynicalHighlander
here it is.
“we are not genetically programmed….”
link to youtube.com

Thepnr

All the ordinary voters in Scotland will vote Yes.

The leaders and activists of BTNT, tradional Tory voters, landowners, most millionaires and billionaires like Sir Ian Wood CBE will vote No.

Result 63% Yes 37% No.

We are gubbing them 🙂

Marcia

You have read articles from him, now see him in this documentary about polling in this referendum – James Kelly from Scot Goes Pop;

link to youtube.com

PeeGee

I’m as big and clever as I need to be and P Hutcheon has proven that he will tell any lie you like for a healthy salary. This is a war we are fighting. A war using votes instead of tanks and bombs but a war nonetheless. The entire existence of Scotland will be decided on September 18th. Enemies of truth must be confronted and defeated. So fuck you!

In other news. E Balls shows he doesn’t know how the Euro works. Unless maybe he’s just another liar?

Ed Balls says Scotland would have to join the euro as ‘least bad’ option
Shadow chancellor fears vote for independence would leave no alternative but single currency he views as deeply flawed

laukat

@John King – Thanks

Other possibility is that the No campaign does not have a younger generation? Is it possible that the No campaign is now mainly voters over 50 with kids who have grown up? Are the No campaigns grandchildren less likely to grow up as No voters? Is this why No are desperate for this campaign to be a once and for all as they know that Yes vote is only going to be stronger in the future?

Croompenstein

Dr Who is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

Edulis

I need some TLC. I was disappointed today to find that at our Highland Games in Drumnadrochit, we had no ‘Yes’ stall unlike last year. I reckon the Games Committee took the view that they didn’t want political contention but maybe it was because of the no-show from BTNT last year.

Rather reluctantly I have come to the view that with 30% local English incomers there is quite a deal of support for BTNT. Even a couple of ‘No Thanks’ posters at the top of our road is enough to lower the tone. I will counter with a blizzard of ‘Yes’ stickers.

Papadox

Denying us EBC in an independent Scotland – ANOTHER PLUS FOR YES. Ta MAGRIT. yer some women so ye ur.

fred blogger

my god look @ this!
twitter.com/The_SSP_/status/503254219684872192/photo/1

Dal Riata

Sorry, O/T and sorry, it’s long.

I was watching a local amateur fooball match in our small town this afternoon. I saw someone there I hadn’t seen for ages and while watching the game together another person I also hadn’t seen for a good while stopped beside us. There was the usual chat about the local team, Scottish and world football in general. All good fun. Then the subject of the referendum was brought up….

Man on right (side) (using paraphrasing): “Did ye see that fuckin’ lot gettin’ their photie taken wi thur fuckin’ Yes signs and all that shite down the street the other day? Bunch a fuckin’ c***s!”

Man on left (side) (using paraphrasing): “Naw, but a can just i-fuckin’-magine it – wankers!”

They hadn’t seen the Yes badge on my jacket.

Me: (Showing them my Yes badge) Take a look here, lads. I’m one of those “c***s” and “wankers”…

Mor: “For fuck’s sake, yer kiddin’… yer wan ae them?!”

Mol: “Get tae fuck, ur ye serious!?”

A scene setter:

This place here is your typical west of Scotland, conservative (usually small ‘c’, but sometimes big ‘C’), mostly protestant, strongly Rangers supporting, Masonic Lodge-going small town.

Anyway, our friendly chatting took a turn for the worse unfortunately, not in a shouty/sweary way, but it was as if I’d suddenly become… One. Of. Them. I had suddenly become ‘the enemy’. It was very, very disconcerting, to say the least. I kept thinking Mor was going to take a swing at me!

I just couldn’t believe the animosity, if not outright hatred toward the cause of Scottish independence and those who promote the Yes Scotland cause. It was quite shocking to be confronted with such hostility for supporting your own country’s independence from old friends with whom you’d been getting on with just fine moments before.

They spouted the tired Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid stuff like it was gospel. And Alicsammin, of course.

Mor: And the oil, eh! The stuff’s runnin’ oot and that wanker Salmond’s lyin’ tae us aboot it, sayin’ wuv got plenty and we should save it fur oorselves. How the fuck can we do that when thurs gonnae be none left!”

Me: No, that’s not true, because…

Mor: It is fuckin’ true! And all that oil off Shetland, they’ll keep that fur themselves… after they vote to stay in the UK!

Me: Eh, no, sorry.”enclave”, “Scotland’s Exclusive Economic Zone”, “12-mile radius from coastline with right to resources”, “very little oil within the radius”…

Mor: Ach away wi ye! Pish! And that fuckin’ Salmond wants to be the heed-bummer-king of Scotland…

Mol: Aye. President for life, probably.

Me: No, that won’t happen. You do know there would be an election in 2016, don’t you? New parties and all that stuff?

Mol: But Scotland’s too wee (honestly, those were the words!) to be independent.

Me: Eh, Denmark has a population similar to Scotland and they’re doing pretty well, thank you very much. By the way, have ye heard of the McCrone Report?

Mol: Aye, but politicians ur aw the same, thur aw at it.

Me: Whit? Do ye know there’s oil-a-plenty no that far away from us here on the west coast that could be Scotland’s once Trident is gone?

Mol: Ach, that Salmond’ll say any fuckin’ thing!

Me: You do know that the BBC and every newspaper in the UK is lying, misinforming and scaremongering on a daily basis, don’t you?

Mol: Youz lot would say that, wouldn’t yez, eh!

And finally the clincher…

Me: So, why don’t you want Scotland to be independent?

Mor: We’d just end up fighting each other! All hell’d break loose and we’d be at each other’s fuckin’ throats.

Mol: Aye, yer right!

Me: [sigh] Ah well. Let’s just agree to disagree, then, eh?

Mor and Mol: Mutter, mutter…

We watched the rest of the game without any more referendum references, but with a change in the air, shall we say.

It did knock the wind out my sails, though, right enough. The amount of willing ignorance, anger and downright hatred was sad and scary at the same time.

If this wee town with its ‘Rangers till we die. Rule Brittania.’ and Masonic handshakes gets a 50%+1 Yes result it would be a victory of enormous magnitude. Yes Scotland has got a bit of a hard sell here, that’s for sure. But we’ve just got to keep doing all we can to get that Yes vote.

It’s days like this that I despair for Scotland and some of its inhabitants.

Ian Brotherhood

@Dal Riata –

That sounds a pretty upsetting experience, and it couldn’t have been easy writing about it.

Croompenstein

@Dal Riata – are you from Drongan or Patna?

shug

tartanfever
list started

Brian Mchugh

Dal… I have come across it too… from otherwise fairly intelligent people (well, at least I would hope so).

It comes down to pure ignorance and a lack of educating themselves to the facts.

Console yourself in picturing their faces on September 19th… the shock to their systems will be their own fault, in that they remained ignorant and were too lazy to take the time to do their own research.

😉

Mealer

Dal Riata
There are areas where you can hardly find a NO voter.Keep up your good work.

macart763m

@muttley 79 (6.03pm)

Couldn’t agree more. Much like our public servants these individuals exist to serve our requirements, our needs. There job is to search out facts and hold others to account on our behalf. When they fail in this task, as they are patently seen to be doing now, then the only course left open to us is to remove our support.

I haven’t bought a single title since the first year of this campaign and I doubt I’ll ever subscribe to another newspaper as long as I live.

highseastim

Marcia, that clip with James Kelly has re-enforced even more, my belief that a YES vote is there for the taking on 18th September!!

John Lind

Love that Gallacher’s parents are both supporters of independence.

Graeme Doig

John King

Cheers bud i’ll try that.

Dal Riata

Different experience for me at my boy’s football today. One right Honourable Gordon Brown turned up watching another game. Couldn’t resist the temptation to ask where he was spouting his lies and conning the Scottish people today. He didn’t say a word just an awkward look.
I didn’t want to hang about as his ‘mates’ didn’t look too happy.
It started a conversation with some of the football dad’s at the game though who turned out to be YES.
Don’t lose heart mate. Must be painful dragging their fists about behind them.

Nana Smith

Looks so very fine..

link to twitter.com

Training Day

New theme in the media today. Yes supporters ‘admitting’ that independence won’t happen (Frankie Boyle) or that Yes has failed to give women hope ( Elaine C Smith)

Expect to see an article in the next day or so where Salmond ‘admits’ he doesn’t want independence. Step forward Paul Hutcheon.

Brian Mchugh

Just wanted to add that whenever there is a Townhall/School debate, the before and after polls always show a shift to Yes… and in general, Yes has been surely and steadily closing the gap (to very much neck and neck now).

We know the NO campaign and their compliant media’s agenda is purely to hold onto the uninformed, such as Dal Riata’s pals above… the Yes campaigns’ priority is the promotion of information and to educate as many folk as we can till polling day and its starting to look like the Marathon we were promised… you know, the eventual winner sitting in behind the leader, getting ready to make the move for the line. 😉

Croompenstein

@Graeme – One right Honourable Gordon Brown turned up

Magic Graeme, I wish you had asked the fish moothed f*cker – Is Scotland a net contributor to the UK ? Yes or No

Ian Brotherhood

SSP stall in Saltcoats this afternoon, right beside the Yes stall. Both very busy, and largely friendly ‘banter’ with interested locals.

One of the guys ran out of patience with a early sixty-ish woman who was at the wind-up, kept asking who was going to fix this, abolish that, deal with all the Poles, believe the Holyrood government any more than they would Westminster, yada yada yada ad nauseum…

The man tried to answer. He really did. But on and on she went, being contrary for the sake of it.

Eventually, he raised his palm to stop her.

‘Listen hen, in the time I’ve spent listening to your pish I could’ve handed out a hundred leaflets, maybe even sold a few papers. You’re not getting any answers you like so you keep making up new questions. You want it all handed to you on a plate? Tell you what. Why don’t you just go away and do some reading for yourself? Do some homework. I know you don’t have a computer but you said your lassie does. Ask her to help you. No disrespect hen, but you’re wasting my time, and we’ve got a job to do here. So. Cheerio.’

If she’d ever been spoken to like that before then she made a very good job of acting otherwise, and off she went without another word. These people really are trying everyone’s patience, and it must be much much more difficult when they happen to be friends or family.

Solid ‘No’s’ with solid reasons? Fair enough. But those who are intellectually bone idle and try to project an air of authority on subjects they know nothing about? They will have to shoulder much of the blame if we don’t win.

liz

@Dal Riata – that’s a shame you had a bad experience – you will never change the minds of people like that, we just have to hope there is not enough of them.

The reason I think they are so angry is because deep down to feel that you live in a country which is such a failure must be a sad place to be.

schrodinger's cat

Croompenstein says:

23 August, 2014 at 8:44 pm

Dr Who is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

wrong
the bbc is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

Brian Mchugh

Ian, couldn’t agree more… Ignorance of the law is no excuse… Ignorance of governance should not be either.

Both law and politics are keystones in defining the society we inhabit.

mr thms

Don’t forget to pick up a copy of the Sunday Herald in the morning.. it has an excellent freebie..

link to twitter.com

Another Union Dividend

Dal Riata says: @8.57

Having been brought up in West Lothian I fully understand where you are coming from.

The biggest problem the YES campaign has is that the Scottish media will not tell the truth and for the last seven years the UK right wing media has monstered Alex Salmond / SNP / YES at ever opportunity and the BBC has a vested interest to maintain the status quo.

More importantly in these areas the North British Labour party is more concerned about maintained its Westminster / House of Lords privileges than the local populations concerns or Scotland’s democratic rights.

Sydthesnake

Dal Riata
you need to listen to Art Garfunkel “why Worry”
this will chill you out and refresh you for the battle, I have been converting nearly everybody I come across but alas there always someone who refuses to listen to reason, their getting their facts from BBC unfortunately, I always feel I have failed when I can’t convert them, but so far all my employees and every one bar one of my immediate family have seen the light, ( I will get them over from the dark side before 18th )

never ever give in, we will prevail of that I’m certain

Syd

Dal Riata

@Ian Brotherhood

You’re right, it was upsetting and hard to write about.

I had the feeling that Mor was just itching to plant me one! I deliberately brought the ‘discussion’ to a close – with a Britnat ranter on each side mocking and sneering it took all my patience and cool not to let it get out of hand.

We’re not young, have known each other for years and played in the same football team (amateur) together back in the day. But just for that length of time during our ‘discussion’ I had become the ‘enemy’. Just mental stuff.

@Croompenstein

No, not from either of those places, Croompenstein. I’m in Argyllshire. Coincidentally, back in the day, our local team drew Patna, away, in the Scottish Amateur Cup, I think it was… and we got gubbed!

@Brian McHugh

Cheers! It seems to be a common trait among the “I’m definitely voting No… just because!” lot. Far easier to put your fingers in your ears and go, “I’m not listening. I’m not listening. Nyah, nyah, na, na.”

@Mealer

Thanks! It’s a tough shift in this neck of the woods, especially when some of the local Britnats are calling *us* ("Tractor" - Ed)s, FFS.

Drew Macleod

Yip! A tale of “ordinary” folks!

Graeme Doig

Croompenstein

Lots of things i wanted to say but probably wouldn’t have had access to internet where i ended up 🙂

Thepnr

@Marcia

Thanks for that link, I understand better now how the polls can be manipulated.

Caroline Corfield

bald eagle

my uncle Joe Orr died in 1997, lived in Cambuslang, he did work in Glasgow city centre somewhere in the 90’s as I met him by chance outside the BP building when I worked there briefly in 1992. I have other uncles 🙂

schrodinger's cat

@Caroline Corfield
welcome 🙂

Harry McAye

Was in Hamilton today campaigning for the first time in a while. First the positives. The Yes stall was very busy with folk seeking us out, a few WBBs were handed out, one by me to a woman who said their only real issue was taxation to afford Scotland becoming independent. Gave her the WBB along with the Your Choice booklet with a few flyers inside. But heard some negative comments, some hostility (“you’re a separatist”) and some staggering views.

A man of 82 who said he watched all the political stuff and said he liked the SNP government but not Salmond, said he was a definite No. Seems we won’t get any money from oil, it all goes to the oil companies. I mentioned Norway, not interested in Norway. Try again. What about all those rich countries that control their oil. It won’t happen to us. One last try. Do you think Scotland is Westminster’s No 1 priority? Bit taken aback. “We get our share”. Do you agree that whoever is in charge of an independent Scotland, Scotland will always come first. “No”. No reasoning with him. A few well to do looking old ladies dismissing folk, “not interested” said one, presumably not interested in voting Yes. They are doing ok and can’t see beyond their own nose. But as I said, plenty of positives and I was only there for an hour. Good to see folk searching for answers and coming up to you rather that what sometimes feels like accosting folk yourself. I can see the WBB making a big difference but some folk are simply beyond help and like the long post above, will not believe anything from the Yes side but will happily beleive Cameron, Darling and the rest. Sad.

Caroline Corfield

Grouse Beater:

I agree it’s a horrible thing to hear, but I rather meant the general connectedness behind that kind of statement than the idea you can’t escape your family history, or that some kind of nepotism has got you where you are.

I think Scotland’s population is big enough to balance out the fact that you can easily have known important politicians as childhood friends or classmates against the idea that politicians are a breed apart from us mere mortals.

It’s a benefit of the Scottish education system that we care not whether someone was state educated or private educated, the latter simply indicated money to burn. Here in the North East of England at one point it was felt state education was so bad many families struggled to pay for private education for their children.

Sydthesnake

I had a small debate with lovely Irish woman in Launderette in sunny Ayrshire yesterday, she was a NO, I asked her why, she said my mammy will kill me if I vote yes, her mammy’s in Ireland?
she says the Oil’s running out, we can’t keep the pound, oohh, that’s a new one, let me guess the BBC, yes she said
I told her to come to Wings and get enlightened, hope she does

tartanfever

Dal,

Must admit when I meet a die hard unionist and I’m having a chat about my support for independence I keep it simple when they ask why I’m a Yes.

‘I like free prescriptions and eye test’

‘That free bus pass is handy getting into town’

‘My elderly mother is being looked after’

‘Thats my nephew away to uni, no fees to worry about, he can get a degree and set himself up’

‘ Good to see the pension age will remain at 65 in an independent Scotland’

‘All those things that me and you get that England doesn’t because of the SNP government. Aye sure enough that Salmond’s a cock !’

If you relate to people one way in which they benefit from the SNP in power at Holyrood over Westminster you have the power to make people look:

a) very stupid

b) at themselves and their beliefs again.

If they can’t manage that level of honesty, it’s probably not worth it.

Nana Smith

Murphy in Blantyre

link to youtube.com

Wee Alec

We have Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, UKIP, BNP, OO, BBC, National Press, Obama, House of Lords, Eddie Izzard and Kermit the Frog all against Independence and yet the people of Scotland have seen through their lies and deception and prefer the positive YES message. Oh forgot Tony Abbot, the Australian Primr Minister.

I loved the New Zealand postcard on http://bellacaledonia.org.uk.

Says it all.

Boorach

Had a fantastic day with a ‘Yes’ stall in Invergordon. Highland Games day and 2 cruise ships ib the harbour the High Street was buzzing.

Lots of local Yessers grabbing saltires, badges and window/car stickers with plenty of chat and huge smiles. Even had a couple of squaddies (based at Fort George) grabbing whatever they could. They reckon that their regiment are at least 90% Yes.

A fire tender caused something of a traffic jam while the grew availed themsemves of the offered goodies paid for with a blast on the siren as they departed.

The cruise ships passengers were interesting. The larger carrying predominently Americans and Canadians who were interested in the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. The other ship was carrying mostly English folk who in the main were complaining about the lack of information being carried in the MSM down there and seem to be painfully unaware of what is coming down the road for them in the event of a Yes vote.

Another couple I spoke to were/are German and very supportive being fully aware that we wish to stay in the EU while Westminster only wants to be in on their own terms.

The few naysayers ploughed a wide path around us with looks that would have killed a less optimistic bunch.

Aye, a good day.

Ealasaid

On the bus through Edinburgh, Bruntsfield and Morningside, today. Plenty of stickers/flags in windows and I would guess overall that it was 3 to 1 Yes to No. Yes certainly had the most eye-catching displays. Maybe since the Nos were identifying themselves they should get a Wee Blue Book through the door.

heedtracker

The Lonach Games at Strathdon felt like the uk was a thing of the past now. The amount of huge Saltires was some sight to behold up there this afternoon.

Croompenstein

@Nana – That was brilliant what a no mark Murphy is he should double up with Lord Naw Naw and save folk a load of trouble telling them to get tae F

Thepnr

@Dal Riata

Hopefully your not too disheartened by your friends response. The problem for them is their own ignorance of the whole debate.

I was having a quiet pint by myself in my local after work with the computer on and reading Wings.

Opposite me at the bar a conversation started about Independence, 2 for Yes and 2 for No who didn’t know each other. The No’s were loud with their Al-iqsmammon.

I could take no more and got off my seat and walked between the opposing groups.

Sorry I said for butting in but what you have just said is complete rubbish. Their faces were a picture, I corrected them on their mistaken views and the funny thing was that after 10 minutes both the No’s joined me at “my” table.

They walked away with Aye Right cards and my email address, I’ve got his and will send him the Wee Blue Book.

Don’t be intimidated by the ignorant, just try and educate them.

Nana Smith

@Croompenstein

Hilarious & what a shifty bunch

pin

Hahahaha!!!

Croompenstein

Went to watch the news there but FFS silly me there is no news in Scotland on a Saturday night, roll on Marcia with the SH front page

Dal Riata

@Graeme Doig

Nice one. So the Broon loon has got his uses after all!

@liz

Hi there! You wouldn’t believe the hold that “The famous Glasgow Rangers” has on some people round here.

Example, and true: A local friend got a ‘Dear John’ email from his long-term girlfriend to tell him it was all over between them. I met him some days later. He looked devastated. I asked him what was wrong. He replied, “Well, I got this email from herself the other day – not good news, man. But you know what’s even worse? It looks like Rangers are going to go bust… That’s fucked, man. It’s not good, not good at all. What am I supposed to do without the Gers?”

That’s true that is, I swear. This stuff was going on when it looked like Rangers might even fold due to their, ahem, money worries.

@Another Union Dividend

Yup, we cannot deny, as much as we would like to, that the entire UK broadcast and print MSM hasn’t been successful in ‘persuading’ plenty voters to No. As have been all those LibLabCon troughers with their ‘vested interests’. If Scotland does vote majority Yes it will be a battle won against incredible odds… Well, we’ve done it before. And we can do it again. Here’s tae us.

@Sydthesnake

Thanks for the encouragement, Sydthesnake. And keep up your good work!

Conan_the_Librarian

Just watched Andrew Marr’s propaganda.

The citizens of the New Town are all apparently unionist, whilst the citizens of the Auld Toon are for independence.

Yes, we get the metaphor Andrew, and laugh at it.

Clarinda

Re – those who say they will vote NO.

Met with one a few days ago and like all the others here gave calm and robust answers and/or corrections to some of her No ‘thinking’. Despite being a questionable analogy I suggested that her attitude could equate to a decision to her cutting off a healthy foot and even if I gave her all the reasons against would she still cut it off? Bit of a silence and she announced that she wouldn’t cut off her foot in the first place – I rested my case. Probably won’t work but it stopped her rant and perhaps she might think about appreciating what we have and the potential needless loss of resources and self-reliance.

Buoyed by the increasing number of YES signage between Perth and Dundee. Noted the helpful additions made to two NO Thanks signs by persons probably not inclined to support Better Together.

heedtracker

Andrew Marr is a genius Conan, lol

link to theguardian.com

Why is currency union fine now but wont be on the 19th Sept and other terrors of no or is it Labour in Scotland on the way out for a few decades?

“Turning up the heat on Salmond ahead of a debate likely to be dominated by the currency issue, Balls, who opposed UK entry into the euro when he worked for Gordon Brown, said an independent Scotland being part of a sterling currency area was “off the table”, as it would be too damaging to Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Alternatively, if an independent Scotland opted to go it alone with its own new currency, whether pegged to the pound or the dollar, it would create massive risk and uncertainty, mean big rises in interest rates and mortgage costs and the loss of key financial business and trade.”

twenty14

I firmly believe the last few weeks of our campaign must concentrate on the heart – all information for the head is out there.

Robert Peffers

@neil allan says: 23 August, 2014 at 7:09 pm:

“sorry boys but not too thick on the ground in east Scotland) have no previous affinity to any political party?”

Well the YESSERS sure aren’t thin on the ground in these parts. In any case you orobably should take a course in reading comprehension as you seem to have rather misunderstoot both the article and the comments.

You are either a troll, or thick if you cannot understand what is being said. Now troll off.

big jock

Its the anger that always baffles me with hard line unionists I have met.It’s almost like blasphemy to suggest we might not want to be British or run from London.Incidently I am not voting yes for money or wealth.Its a combination of Scots identity and social equality and a big bit of replubicanism.

Justin Neilson

Is there anyone involved with Better Together who isn’t from the unionist activist/elected representative clique? Just who the hell is actually voting No this September that isn’t on the No payroll?

Marcia

Sunday Herald front page:

link to twitter.com

Robert Peffers

Croompenstein says: 23 August, 2014 at 7:16 pm:

“Since you’re on neil could you please please give me one positive case for the union and why we are better together?

Don’t be silly, Croompenstein, he’s a Naysayer!

Meindevon

@tartanfever
That’s good advice on keeping it simple and promoting the positives.

When I read the CiFs down here in the English papers I find it mind boggling that most hate Salmond with a vengeance and call him all sorts but mostly because Scotland have ‘free’ things that they would kill for. Ironically if we had a ‘Salmond’ to vote for, he would probably win hands down.

Edward

Lovely front page Marcia (good artwork with the oil dripping from the top of the page) 😀

heedtracker

@ Marcia, cheers for that! Thats a great front page too. The biggest UKOK fraud since they buried McCrone in a cellar under Whitehall called Sucka Scotch.

Thepnr

@Justin Neilson

Just who the hell is actually voting No this September that isn’t on the No payroll?

Good question.

heedtracker

When I hear someone say they’re voting no because they hate AlicSamin I get in close and say do you hate me, because I agree with him. Its a good start point.

Where’s me WBB’s!!!

mr thms

Front page of the Sunday Herald..

link to twitter.com

“Oil: the last-gasp scare story fails”

Croompenstein

@Marcia – nice one Marcia getting the front page to us so quickly, FM needs to hit Flipper with this right between those creepy granny caterpillar eyebrows of his

msean

And another neutral newspaper review,comedy gold.

Ian Brotherhood

@Nana Smith –

This Murphy Roadshow has already provided the bare bones of a fantastic feature-length documentary capturing the death throes of the Labour party in Scotland.

He knows full well that he had no business striding about in front of Asda. If you or I tried it, with Yes and or SSP stuff? we’d be getting a visit from Store Security within minutes. Just as, if we used a loudhailer or PA system to shout ‘Your argument’s bigger than your arse!’ (as he did repeatedly in Shawlands last week) we’d be spending a few hours with Police Scotland’s finest.

This is prima facie evidence that Murphy and his ilk feel entitled to flout laws which they themselves are responsible for creating.

He’s a busted flush. Having said all that, it is wonderful entertainment – any idea who’s next for The Murphy Experience? (Oh please, please, please, all known Gods, bring him to Stevenston…shakes chicken-bones, starts twenty-minute incantation…)

Sinky

On Sky News at 10.55 Ed Balls says Scots will have to join the Euro.

No serious challenge to this nonsense by the superior London metropolitan commentators other than to say Salmond has no plan B.

This is what we are up against when 99% of the media is determined to mainatain the status quo,

Fireproofjim

2014
Agree. Absolutely.
I have emailed the Yes campaign to ask them to ensure that the next Newspaper is more inspiring and appeals to the heart.
The current edition which I am delivering around Edinburgh is really boring and is almost the same as the last edition. It is unlikely to convert many don’t knows.

Nana Smith

@Ian Brotherhood

Aye its the Murphy comedy show. Must look out for the next episode.

Geez they are a shifty,creepy looking bunch.

Sinky

Ian Brotherhood

The Murphy Roadshow is nothing to do with the Referendum but part of the Blairites plan to replace the useless Johann Lamont by Murphy and supported by the Labour media people such as John McTernan and Kirsty Wark on Newsnight UK… check out Thursday’s edition on Iplayer.

tartanfever

Thanks for posting the Sunday Herald front page.

Thankfully they have gone for the oil story, I hope the inside story is as tough talking as the cover.

Sinky

Fireproofjim says:

Unfortunately I understand that there will not be another newspaper but an information booklet which does resonate with our core voters

Flower of Scotland

@thepnr

Ah ha! Caught you out! Every night in the pub! I only go on Fridays!

We have all been a bit upset with the vitriol from ” No friends “. I’ve learned to laugh at it and be really positive! It works!

The grassroots campaign is truly amazing! I’ve met people leafleting that I would have never met! Facebook is a revelation! I’m on there a lot! All these Indy sites supporting each other is amazing to behold! I feel very positive! YES!

big jock

Jim Murphy describes himself as a patriot.Scotland must be the only nation in the world where patriotism means signing your country over to another parliament 400 miles away!Its just wrong and a strange kind of patriotism.The guy is full of p.sh.Oh and Jim the soft tone you adopt to make you sound reasonable makes you sound like a serial killer on a phone.If you really believed it you wouldn’t whisper dispationately.You ain’t got know soul man.However I do appreciate you are worried about your job and house in London.Too late to turn now Jim but you picked the wrong side!

Edward

Ian Brotherhood
Watched the Murphy in Motherwell video

What I noticed, apart from the heckling & jeering from , what would have been traditional Labour’s grass roots voters. Was the people with Murphy. Totally aloof, totally new Labour. You had the guy in the black coat, blowing up the balloons, which I would hazard a guess was a London Intern. Fresh or nearly fresh out of university, doing what he was told to do. Most definitely not a native, as he had that metro-London look, never done a hard days work.

Which was probably why he goy himself into trouble when inter acting with the green coated lady, by telling her she was only there because she didn’t have a job. The rest of the ‘Murphy Team’ were the same, soulless people. The exception was, what appeared to be a big built 60 something old school old Labour guy, probably the only local, helping out Murphy, because, well because he was Labour.

There was no connection between Murphy or his ‘team’ with the locals.

Its not just Murphy that’s in trouble with the electorate, but all Labour MP’s and MSP’s. Ask yourself this ; when was the last time that any Labour MP or MSP walked with the people, without the people first being vetted?

manandboy

link to bbc.co.uk

Just seen Alistair Darling do the ice bucket challenge –
except AD showed no reaction to the water
as everyone does to the freezing water

that’s the point – to replicate the sensation
of ALS, a neurodegenerative disease.

Aaand, there was no ice came out of the buckets/basins
and none landed on the grass.

I’ve seen this done in person
and I reckon Alistair Darling
has faked it by using warm water.

Or maybe he was just cold enough already
so he didn’t need to do the real thing.

Another con trick
from a true con artist

Sinky

We need to challenge this Balls nonsense that Scotland will be forced to join the Euro.

The inadequacy of our media / TV broadcasters is such that none of them will point out that

Speaking in May 2013, nine years after the Czech Republic joined the E.U., European Council president Herman Van Rompuy stated:
“The prime minister added in his statement that it is even an obligation to join the euro, so that is nothing new. But you have to meet all the criteria. At this stage the Czech Republic is not meeting all the criteria, so the problem is not a problem today. But even if you meet the criteria, then of course the Czech Republic has to make its own decision in its own constitutional order. So I will not interfere in this internal debate; it’s up to the Czech Republic to make up its mind.“

Dave McEwan Hill

I have read lots of the twittering on the Sunday Herald’s car stickers.
I am getting completely pissed off by the number of eejits who seem to think the Sunday Herald should publish as a YES or SNP pamphlet. It’s a fecking newspaper
They shout and scream about the rest of the media providing no balance – and then seem to want the Sunday Herald to provide no balance – or some of its staff writers who do not support independence to write pro independence copy.

Grow up FFS and enjoy tomorrow’s edition. It’s front page is spectacular and so are the car stickers

big jock

Manandboy..Cyborgs don’t feel pain!

Nana Smith

Makes my blood bloody boil…

link to twitter.com

big jock

Hi Dave calm down man you sound like one of the unionist women in my work!lol

Kev

Totally O/T but is anyone here a Dr Who fan? Im not but the gf is and I thought id watch it as I do like Peter Capaldi. While I was trying my best to make sense of the bizarre plot, I couldn’t help but notice what could be construed as references to Independence.

Not long into it and Capaldi must have mentioned his Scottishness a good 4-5 times, but on one occasion he quickly followed it by suggesting giving his eyebrows their “own independent state” (aye i know weird, you need to watch it).

Then right at the end Capaldi and his female side-kick then muttered the phrase “you dont have a vote” to each other. Im sure there were more instances as it was on the whole very noticeable but I just cannae be bothered watchin it again to list them all!

Tam Jardine

Thepnr 10.15pm

I’ve just worked it out – you’re a Yes Jedi. BTUKOKS better keep you away from their ‘big hitters’ or you’ll have big Jim or Alistair saying ‘these aren’t the droids we’re looking for’. Keep it up mate – thank God you are on our side!

John King

Glad you enjoyed the Leith Says Aye festival – was working on the walk but enjoyed the atmosphere when I could. Great to see TJenny, Michael McCabe, X-sticks, Debbie the Bruce and the delicious Elaine C Smith.

The Walk was like a future where all no supporters had been wiped out by some kind of virus coz everyone was wearing yes badges. Everyone I saw anyway. It was a scene from JoLa’s nightmare.

Great times we live in.

Dal Riata

Sorry to hear about your mates – sadly events, and history are leaving them behind. They want to keep the status quo with every fibre of their being. How many leaflets have they delivered? Or doors chapped? Were they wearing No Thanks BT UKOK badges? How many folk have they converted?

They are lost, they and their ilk have not the stomach for the fight or the support network to push them into getting involved. The very ground beneath their feet is threatening to give way.

Take heart friend – think how many signatures BT would have collected from the Electoral roll by this stage from their support. We will win.

AS for the Astroturfers, (and our apologists for this deception)- would DC in drag as ordinary housewife Davina from Witney or if Ed was simply ordinary family man Edward from Doncaster appearing in a PPB -would that be deception?

You nailed them again Stu.

cearc

nana smith,

Yes, she seems to be a particularly nasty piece of work. IDS with hair.

Grouse Beater

Sunday Herald should publish as a YES or SNP pamphlet.

It is not that black and white.

It’s all in the presentation.

If you believe in something you tackle its opposition from that standpoint. You are well informed, know your history, have your facts ready validated and verified.

When a newspaper claims to be one thing yet publishes the opposite without analysis or critique side-by-side with one’s beliefs it’s very hard to believe the paper is being vigorous in its pursuit of truth.

In the case of the Sunday Herald and your assertion I have never read of anybody demanding it become a mouthpeice for the SNP pamphlet.

Ian Brotherhood

@Edward –

My Mum is a Murphy. Her cousin, Leum (aka Willie) died a few weeks ago, in London, where he’d lived for approx 35 after getting fed-up living in Kilwinning, where he was the manager of the fruit & veg section of the Co-Op. He was a good age though – 83, I think.

I saw him earlier this year, on what he knew would be his last trip to Scotland. He was visiting my Mum. We got talking about the referendum, the state of Labour etc. He was a lifelong Labour activist, knew a lot of the high-heid yins, got his photie taken with Blair (aye, I know…awkward) etc, but he was the real deal, went way back.

On ‘getting pissed off with Labour in Ayrshire’, he told me this one – sometime in 1984/5, having completed a fundraiser for striking miners’ families, and arranged other events with NUM members down south (Borders or NW England) he happened to bump into one of his Labour branch colleagues as he was making his way home from Kilwinning station. He told the ‘comrade’ of this trip, the developments, and suggested that they be placed on the agenda for the next branch meeting, which was imminent.

‘Ach, Leum, you’re too late man. We already drew up the agenda last night in the club.’

The ‘club’ was the Masonic in Kilwinning.

ScottieDog

Very simply if you’re debating Indy, just ask “ok what’s the uk economy based on?”
You never get a quick answer…

Fireproofjim

Tam Jardine
Great to hear of all the Yes badges on Leith Walk today.
As has been mentioned before, it will be difficult to find anyone to admit to voting No after a Yes win. My Dad was in Germany in 1945 and was amazed to find that there had NEVER been any Nazis according to the locals. Just saying.

Nana Smith

Unite discuss independence

link to new.livestream.com

Nana Smith

Well they have really scared our elderly folk…

link to twitter.com

tartanarse