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Wings Over Scotland

The ordinary people

Posted on August 23, 2014 by

The startling lack of “grassroots” support in the No campaign has been a recurring theme on this site. Time and again, people presented as typical members of the public turn out to be dedicated political activists with a vested interest in the status quo.

The “Better Together” website has a long-running series of blog posts under the banner “Why I’m saying No Thanks”. All of the people featured in it are introduced with no mention of any involvment in politics. Out of idle curiosity we thought we’d see if we could find out a little more about them.

This, for example, is ordinary Meghan Gallacher, a graduate from Holytown.


Or as she was described in the Daily Record a couple of months ago, a dedicated member of the Conservative Party” with a Boris Johnson fetish who wants to be the next Tory female Prime Minister – something she’s rather less likely to achieve as a Scot if Scotland is no longer part of the UK.


Here’s ordinary Greg Black from Edinburgh.


A Labour activist and PR man previously seen working for former First Minister Jack McConnell and then for Labour MSP Kezia Dugdale in the Scottish Parliament.


Then there’s ordinary student Marian Craig from Paisley.


Caught in a casual moment when she’s not working as a research assistant to Labour MSP Mary Fee, shadow housing minister.


Who could be more ordinary than unemployed graduate Alan Grant from Stirling?


After all, which of us HASN’T spent a few years as a spokesman for the University of Stirling Conservative Society, trying to preserve every aspect of the UK’s political status quo? (Basically he just hates anything with “Yes” in it.)


Next up is ordinary full-time mum Leanne Williams from Galston.


Seen here relaxing at home from a busy spare-time schedule of campaigning for and assisting Labour election candidates across East Ayrshire.


This is ordinary Barry Turner, a retired planner from East Lothian.


Something else he’s retired from is being a Lib Dem councillor. He was suspended for breaching the Councillor’s Code Of Conduct over a planning application in 2011.


There’s nothing political about ordinary Alison Dowling from Clydebank.


Or we assume not, at least since she failed in her bid to be selected as the 2016 Labour candidate for the Holyrood seat of Clydebank & Milngavie back in March.


Still, she’ll get some sympathy from ordinary Greg Williams, oil worker from Aberdeen.


As he actually managed to secure a Labour candidacy in 2011, though he lost out to the SNP’s Maureen Watt in the Aberdeen South and North Kincardine seat.


Ordinary Edward Mountain, a farmer from Moray, might empathise too.


Given that he too failed to win a seat in the 2011 election, having been Tory candidate for Caithness, Sutherland and Ross as the chairman of the Highland Conservatives.


Ordinary Conor McElwaine, a student from Dundee, has no such experiences.


Although given that he’s the Chair of Scottish Young Labour, as well as the President of Dundee Labour Students, you wouldn’t be all that surprised if it was on his to-do list.


In the future, Conor might find himself sparring with ordinary Kyle Thornton.


It doesn’t seem too implausible that their paths could cross one day, given that Kyle is Secretary of the Glasgow University Conservative Association.


But Conor would probably get backup from ordinary Lora Bedford in Ednburgh.


What with her being secretary of Edinburgh Labour Students and all.


And there might well also be support from ordinary Allana Hoggard.


…who is the same body’s vice-chairperson.


We could go on and on, folks. But we imagine you’ve grasped the gist of it by now.

There is, of course, nothing at all wrong with careerist politicians and ambitious party activists being involved in the referendum campaign. But readers might be forgiven for wondering whether those budding careers and ambitions ought not to be openly disclosed when people are posing as ordinary members of the public concerned only with the wellbeing of their fellow Scots, rather than personal and party advantage.

After all, we wouldn’t want any more embarrassing incidents like this, would we?

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  1. 23 08 14 17:07

    The ordinary people | Scottish Independence News

389 to “The ordinary people”

  1. John says:

    Have they no shame?. Lies by ommission.

  2. Chani says:

    Was Edward Mountain one of the audience members on the Inverness(?) debate who got to ask a question?

  3. James Sneddon says:

    Oh dear oh dear, their campaign has been nothing but the political equivalent of the emperors new clothes and will provide the meat and bones of many academic thesis in the years to come. Has about as much credibility as Putin claiming 101% of the popular vote 😀

  4. thoughtsofascot says:

    Oh god, this is absolutely hilarious! Its like they have lined up every single one of their failed candidates and decided that they must have failed to become politicians because they have “ordinary” minds, unlike politicians who have minds capable of multiple house flipping and expense fiddling.

    We are a completely different species to them as far as they are concerned.

  5. Karmanaut says:

    Ach, now, come on… they did get *one* real person. The BNP supporter, Yvonne Hama, who they used in their campaign videos.

  6. Tom Berwick says:

    Well done Sherlock(s) amd Miss Marples for great research and detectives work exposing the no’s grass roots campaign as a fiction of their own making.

  7. Billy Manson says:

    Are you not worried the ‘ordinary’ people might look at this and think. ‘these people are all keen on politics, maybe they know what it’s all about, maybe I’m wrong to vote for independence if all these folks who take an interest in politics are against it?’

  8. todayinscotland says:

    New posts, please share

    I’m Going With Plan B (Not That One)
    Are We The Bad Guys?
    I am #YesDespite

    todayinscotland | The Referendum Blues

  9. Doug Daniel says:

    Ordinary Alison Dowling, last seen chapping on the door of Bute House with Anas Sarwar, holding that giant coin with Salmond’s face on it. That’s the kind of ordinary thing ordinary people do.

    Oh, and she was interviewed by the Sunday Herald as the head of Business Together. Or Women Together. One of their astroturf groups anyway. Again, totally ordinary.

  10. Doug says:

    At least BetterTogether were honest about their real names. If they told me it was sunny I’d take my umbrella outside to check.

  11. RMFBrown says:

    Playing with fire here, Rev. I can see the Daily Mail headlines: ” Vile cybernat harasses ordinary people for lying about not being ordinary.”

  12. handclapping says:

    I love the way these ordinary Labour folk are happy to front the Tory campaign against Scotland. Just how ornery is that!

  13. TheGreatBaldo says:

    Journalist : ‘So Joe which do you prefer….Grass or Astroturf?’

    Joe Namath : ‘Grass, you can’t smoke Astroturf’

  14. Franariod says:

    I went on bt site the other day and did the same thing. Its a good wee game, I call it go on bt & google a name 😀

  15. Nana Smith says:

    Not surprised in the least, after all the No campaign have lied since the start. If its a No in September I hope these people realise yessers will not vote for liars or maybe they are just too thick to grasp reality.

  16. thoughtsofascot says:

    I wouldn’t be worried about it to be honest. I learned from my own dalliances with the university political scene that those who get involved at that age are usually self serving idiots looking for a power trip (hence the reason it turned me off completely from politics at that time). The Labour university mob tend to be a pretty sub standard lot of champagne socialists who like to protest things every now and again, but recoil in horror when they have to do something that may jeopardize their upper-middle class privileges.

  17. Patrician says:

    Anyone out on the streets knows that most of the activists they have are MPs, councillors, wannabee councillors, SPADs and their partners. “No Scotland” do not a grass roots presence, and they need to show one to ensure they can cream off the Tory money from the South.

  18. Flooplepoop says:

    I’m just back from a trip to the Western Isles, North Uist in particular. The mood up there is a rampant Yes, with plenty of Yes signs up and clearly visible.
    The only Naw sign was in the local hotel which basically caters for shooting and fishing parties, so no suprise there.
    No Better Together Thanks have hardly anybody on the ground, that’s why it’s always vested interest people that are featured in their campaigns because, as far as i can see,they can’t get normal people to appear in these adverts.
    No better Together thanks are desperate, if North Uist is anything to go by, it’ll be an 80% win for yes.

  19. thoughtsofascot says:


    A lot of the Tabour proteges these days tend to be cut from the very same cloth as the Tories. They’d definitely be Tories if they were born in a country that does not have less Tory MPs than pandas. Its all about the numbers really. They see more chance of getting a leg up on the political ladder and getting into Westminster if they join up with Labour rather than the Tories. It is an unfortunate consequence of the wipeout of the Tories in 1997

  20. G H Graham says:

    I was at a debate at Murthly village hall in Perthshire last night. You wouldn’t believe how many ordinary aristocrats, lairds, & squires were there, looking dapper with their walnut coloured cheeks, festooned in tweed gilets, mustard breeks, gun dog socks & country brogues.

    And quite the scene they made too, guffawing at the Glasgwegian immigrants like myself who had the audacity to challenge the nonsensical claims by Murdo Fraser MSP, that are still indeed 11,000 workers secretly congregating daily at HM Clyde.

  21. Kryczek says:

    They have no real campaign themselves. Just the rubbish that they spout. But if going by Airdrie today then they’ve got no chance. Only one “nazi” slagging and load’s of “it’s got to be yes”. The tide is turning our way folk’s, keep at it.

  22. TD says:

    Stu is absolutely right to point out the disingenuous tactics (if not downright lies) used by our opponents in this campaign. And it is absolutely OK to poke fun at them and ridicule them for their brass neck.

    But there is a serious side to all this – the ordinary voters who don’t read Wings will not be aware of these lies unless we all tell them. We really need to spread the word about this at every opportunity so that we can expose the dirty tricks that the BTNTUKOK mob are using. Because the MSM will not do it. And we need to get people thinking about why BT etc are using these tactics. After all, if they had any good arguments, they would use them and they wouldn’t need to resort to this sort of stuff.

    Stu is giving us ammunition – its up to us to fire it.

  23. Mike says:

    Is there really no ‘ordinary’ people who want to be associated with No Surrender Thanks?… oh well.

    If there’s a no vote on Sept 18th I’ll eat mine and everyone else’s hats. Yes will wipe the floor with these idiots. No campaign has ever won off the back of zero popular support and the reliance on negative campaigning.

    September the 19th… welcoming an Independent Scotland!

  24. Kryczek says:

    It was almost laughable today wasn’t it? Most of there crew were the local MSP and Councilor’s.

  25. Juteman says:

    This campaign is a product of the digital age. The No mob have a few hundred folk that appear on the MSM. They have no grassroots.
    Imagine this campaign happening before TV, and your cause had to be debated at public meetings. It would be a walkover for Yes.
    If we lose this, the spooks have taken over the world.

  26. BuckieBraes says:

    ‘[Conor] is saying No Thanks to separation because the referendum is the only time in his life he has been asked to think small and narrow his horizons.’

    Well, that’s what getting involved with ‘No Better Together Thanks’ does for you, eh Conor?

  27. Dr Jim says:

    The labour party though, seem to be changing this ploy by now pretending their politicians are ordinary people
    ‘Just like us’ I feel better now…

  28. Thepnr says:

    Now take a good look at what the other side of the debate represents. These two young women are the future and the future is safe in their hands.

    If you can spare 10 minutes of your life then you must use it watching what many of the youth of our country think and believe in.

    You won’t regret it, brings a tear to a glass eye.

  29. Patrician says:

    should be OK to go o/t now.

    Academics for Yes are looking for student volunteers for freshers week coming up soon. Please visit their website if you want to volunteer.

    @Kryczek, yes it was very much in evidence today in Airdrie, without councillors and their partners they would have had no presence today.

  30. keaton says:

    It’s obviously dishonest for BT to list people such as Marian without mentioning that she’s on the Labour payroll. I’d say unpaid party political activists are a grey area, though.

  31. macart763m says:

    Oh Jeez, that’s uncanny. What are the odds of every single face having active party political connections? 😀

  32. Colin says:

    There is an email from the Labour Party North, on Munguins website, asking for volunteers to come to Scotland and canvass next Thursday the 28th.

    Not very grassroots is it.


  33. Tartan Cyclist says:

    That Edward Moray was at the recent BBC debate in Inverness challenging Ken Stott and Angus Robertson. His points were utterly rubbish! No ordinary member of the public!

  34. Joseph says:

    doesn’t surprise me, i thought most of them were suspicious cause it all seemed to be the same script over and over again, i guess many of them being failed in the chosen careers will have stupidly thought that posing for a no video will somehow get them brownie points for a re appearance in the not so distant future. Yeah i wont be eagerly waving any sort of flag for any of them.

  35. Murray McCallum says:

    In an independent Scotland it will be interesting to hear from people, who passionately believed Scotland should not run its own affairs, standing for election.

    I used to be against all this but I’m alright now?

  36. Iain says:

    Good digging.

    Given the roll call of failure in some of these political careers, it would actually be fair to describe these folk as ordinary, not to say mediocre. Of course we all know that’s not necessarily an obstruction on the greasy poles of SLAB, LDs and Cons.

  37. JBS says:

    Nice write-up about the identical campaign leaflets story in the Edinburgh Evening News. I especially liked the fact that one of the people commenting on the story – a No voter – implicitly likened the No campaign to a shyster double-glazing company.

  38. heedtracker says:

    Great sleuthing. Its still a shock to see the pretence going on. That ordinary Greg Williams, oil worker from Aberdeen, has been on national tv news, C4 maybe and never once was it mentioned that he’s an MP wannabe. Mass fraud on all of us.

    Another interesting thing is right click googling online newspaper letters section on indyref because a lot of the strongest NO opposition letters are written by councilors in say the Midlands or London but none of the say they are.

    Then you get the CiF BetterTogether regulars that are clearly not ordinary voters but lets not go there, again.

  39. Chani says:

    I just checked and it appears as though Edward Mountain was the guy on the BBC Inverness debate. Thought he seemed like a plant on the night. See iPlayer at about 32:50

  40. fred blogger says:

    i don’t see this as a grey area.
    there are self interests and selfish interests, this falls into the latter.
    these people think that they are entitled to be served by us, and that we should also pay them for that privilege.

  41. TD says:

    O/T – apologies. I am in the Republic of Ireland for a few days to attend a relative’s wedding. I’m handing out the WBB to all the Scots who are attending and engaging with them at every opportunity. The Irish are most interested in what is going on and as you would expect, a majority support the Yes cause.

    What has struck me though these last few days is the self-confidence of the Irish. They are comfortable in themselves and they have no doubts about who and what they are. That is not to say that everything is good in Irish society – it isn’t. But they know that to the extent that things go wrong it is down to them. They don’t blame anyone else. And they also take credit for the things they get right. They do not owe allegiance to anyone other than their own national institutions. They take pride in themselves. They don’t do “I’m proud Irish but…”

    It is frankly like a breath of fresh air compared to the confused identity that many in Scotland have. The Irish are not looking back to their days in the UK with regret at leaving. They wouldn’t dream of going back. I so want to be like them.

  42. Jamie Arriere says:

    Any news about the supposed Labour Party gathering at the Emirates arena last night? Did they have enough folk for a game of mixed doubles?

  43. HandandShrimp says:

    It is a top down campaign and they are pretty much stuck with the party faithful because let’s face it if they do go for “ordinary people” they may well find that they have just tapped into the hard core loyalist contingent. At least the party members and activists are not going to go off on one on Twitter…OK Ian Smart springs to mind, so scrub the last bit 😉

  44. Taranaich says:

    ‘[Conor] is saying No Thanks to separation because the referendum is the only time in his life he has been asked to think small and narrow his horizons.’

    Poor Conor has it completely backwards. What narrower horizon is there than choosing to be 8.7% of a state instead of 100%, choosing to be a region rather than a country, and choosing to leave everything that matters to your superiors in the south? Surely choosing to be your own nation on the world stage is thinking bigger and broadening your horizons?

  45. Thepnr says:


    Yes, think BIG. Think forward, think of the possibilities and think of the look on the faces of the naysayers on the 19th September.

    Happy thoughts.

  46. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    They are fighting hard for the Union.

    The Gravy Boat Union.

  47. Sam Mitchell says:

    Brilliant expose….. you cant beat this…. why do the other members of the media not investigate this farce… especially the bbc…
    their duplicity knows no end… they will & cannot fight fair… they can see that they just need to show “”ordinary “” folk “”” who are anything but ordinary and who are active in being or wannabes on the GRAVY train… its not in the least fair…. it’s almost criminal as its a form of fraud…

  48. Alice H says:

    I also spotted “ordinary” farmer Edward Mountain as part of the audience in the last BBC referendum debate in Inverness. James Cook handily picked him out to ask Angus Robertson a question.

  49. Moravian says:

    Actually, that’s Major (Rtd) Sir Edward Mountain 4th Bt, late Blues & Royals.

  50. piggy says:

    Exposure of deceit continues.

    Good work.

  51. Clootie says:

    The way Labour and Tories have been working together is impressive – it’s as if they have no real difference in values!

  52. chossy says:

    This is a chuffa article, sorry. I know what you are getting at in that these people are presented as joe bloggs from down the road, but no-one is, during this campaign. It’s not a bad thing to be politically active and associate with a party in fact it’s healthy and great that people are politically active. However articles like this which serve only to demonise the person are not worthwhile. You can mask it how you like, saying it is another example of how the NO campaign are pulling the wool over peoples eyes, but in truth they are not. They are merely presenting some people who are going to vote no, they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing. These articles should stop they serve no purpose other than to stir up trouble where none exists.

  53. Minty says:

    BTUKOKNOThanks have been chapping the doors in North Edinburgh today. The two nice young folk that turned up at my door appeared to be on a day trip up from Newcastle, they seemed a bit downcast at the response they were getting.

  54. muttley79 says:

    Just read this tweet from Euan McColm about Derek Bateman and Magnus Gardham:

    magnus is a great journalist. bateman’s a mediocre hack turned full on zoomer.

    You just cannot make up what McColm comes out with! 😀 😀 😀

  55. Luigi says:

    The great thing about the YES campaign is that it is bringing together a whole load of people of diverse backgrounds, different political beliefs, professions, earning brackets etc in a way that I have never seen before. We are all Scottish and it is a great feeling. Yes, political parties sometimes achieve this in small ways, even BT can bring a few groups together (although it always seems to look forced and/or manufactured). However, the sheer scale of this coming together in the YES campagn, and the discourse is amazing. Things are never going to be the same again, whatever happens next month. Scotland is a different place. Wonderful.

  56. Papadox says:

    The tragic soles in your piece are being used by the unionist as they are all believing their own lies, a very dangerous thing to do, and are being groomed for a life at the Westminster trough, or cannon fodder for the troughers, to climb over.

    They have forgotten the old saying: ” WHEN YOU ARE DAFT, YOUR THE LAST ONE TO FIND OUT”

  57. les Wilson says:

    Their trouble is that we are ascending. They are stuck with their lies and deceit. Desperate people do desperate things, so all this is par for the course.

    Made all the more difficult with things like this from Wings, hell mend them.

  58. Wilma says:

    so glad I’m not ordinary

  59. Patrician says:

    It isn’t attacking the person but rather the way the person is portrayed by “No Scotland”. Would it have been so hard to say such-and-such, a member of whatever party, votes no.

  60. Patrician says:

    sorry that last reply was for @chossy.

  61. Bugger [the Panda] says:


    Is that you in one of the photos?

    This is getting a bit Last Supperish, when can we expect the crowing of the cockrell?

  62. Edward says:

    This from Paul Hutcheon on McColm’s twitter feed :

    “Just read @DerekBateman2’s appalling piece on the Herald’s fine Political Editor Magnus Gardham

    Joke or is Hutcheon being just a tad idiotic?

  63. Sydthesnake says:

    why do the BT muppets keep talking up this
    “Best of both worlds” crap
    we will end up with both worlds right enough but it won’t be Best, this world and a past world gone by, of the dickens era, soup kitchens, food banks, we NEED to rid ourselves of these dangerously warped minds only out for self gratification.

    YES, Must prevail

  64. Robert Peffers says:

    Join bitter together where extraordinary become just ordinary or join the YES campaign where the ordinary have become very extraordinary.

    Gawn yersels YESSERS.

  65. PeeGee says:

    P Hutcheon will suck any political cock for money. Tenth rate, “journalist” with truth telling problems.

  66. Moreida Lord says:

    Stu… You’ve done it again. What a brilliant expose of the tactics lies and manipulation of the No camp. The article must be RT as often as necessary, so everyone can judge this for themselves.

  67. goulashman says:

    Thank you so much for this. I am new to Wings and am finding it most helpful in discussing indy issues with friends and family. This information will be potent in explaining the naked political self-interest and quite worrying deviousness of NO. The kind of cynical attitude represented buy NO, its shameless use of any tactic, fair or foul, mostly foul, abetted as it is by a rightest press and an increasingly uniform rightest Westminster politic shows the dangers to which Scotland will be exposed in the event of a NO victory. With heart, mind and soul I will vote YES – we are in the Last Chance Saloon.

  68. Marian says:

    The Better Together “grassroots support” is similar to the military parades through Red Square during the Cold War as when the tanks, rockets and marching troops left the square they marched round a few blocks and changed a few flags and banners and then marched right on back through Red Square again giving the impression that vast numbers were there when the reality was only a few thousand.

  69. macart763m says:

    @muttley 79

    They really don’t like being held to account do they? They reckon that’s their job and somehow they’re untouchable, unaccountable for what they write.

    After this campaign the likes of messrs McColm and Gardham need to be fully aware that they are no longer trusted. They don’t represent any ethic of objectivity I recognise and frankly if I reckon they’re writing a load of biased, misleading pish, I reserve the right to withhold my support for any title they happen to be peddling said pish in. Right now there isn’t a title in this country I’d waste a brass tack on. When they go, they won’t be missed.

  70. Nana Smith says:


    Welcome to Wings!

  71. fred blogger says:

    Nana Smith
    “Government scraps HS2 after business leaders agree to arrange meetings 20 mins later”
    yes indeed, a complete waste of money, for all concerned esp scotland!
    with indy, we can stop being forced to subsidize the hair brained schemes of WM.

  72. goulashman says:

    Thanks, Nana:)!

  73. Robert Peffers says:

    @Clootie says: 23 August, 2014 at 5:10 pm:

    “The way Labour and Tories have been working together is impressive – it’s as if they have no real difference in values!”

    Whattcha mean, “AS IF”,, Clootie?

  74. Democracy Reborn says:


    Re Derek Bateman’s blog

    That’s now Hutcheon, Roden & McColm all tweeting to the defence of poor Gardham. It’s like the circling of the wagons. Derek has obviously touched a raw nerve. What he wrote about the MSM, & Gardham in particular, is so self-evidently true. Note that they choose to diss Derek’s ability as a journalist than deny the veracity of what he writes. Rather proves one of the points Derek makes : BT & their MSM acolytes would rather play the man (Salmond) than meaningfully engage in the issues.

  75. muttley79 says:


    McColm, Cochrane, Hutcheon, Gardham, Crichton, Peterkin, Carroll, Naughtie etc are all dinosaurs, ardent and diehard unionists, who have absolute contempt for independence representatives and supporters. Hutcheon asked Blair Jenkins how much he was getting paid in an interview a few weeks ago. Would he ask Darling about his house flipping, his pocketing of private health care money? Would he fuck. Heaven forbid, but if there is a No vote, there should be a mass boycott of these individuals’ newspapers. They deserve it for the way they have acted.

  76. Roberto Esquierdo says:

    What all the contributors of Wings must realise is that these people in the no camp are fighting to hang on to their
    British identity for various reasons but mostly financial . These people will stop at NOTHING to maintain that identity

    There will be worse to come once they fall behind in the polls

  77. Dal Riata says:


    From Urban Dictionary-


    noun – the erroneous bullshit of a script for a movie when doing dailies. Bruce Willis coined the phrase and uses it when shooting films when he gets rid of the unwanted dialogue or actions.

    Eh… Oh, aye, right ye are. Anyway…

    “… articles like this which serve only to demonise the person are not worthwhile.”

    “demonise”? Seriously? I read no demonising of any of the ordinary people [sic]. Could you perhaps return to show us examples of ‘demonising’?

    “You can mask it how you like, saying it is another example of how the NO campaign are pulling the wool over peoples eyes, but in truth they are not.”

    Again, seriously? You say, “but in truth they are not.” (the No campaign pulling the wool over people’s eyes). Sorry, but in truth, they are. By being deceitful and ‘economical with the truth’.

    They are merely presenting some people who are going to vote no, they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing.

    No, “they” are not “merely presenting some people who are going to vote no…”. You are being deliberately disingenuous.

    “… they have strong political connections sure but why would anyone offer that information and why is this a bad thing.”

    The “bad thing” is that the No campaign is using these people in a dishonest manner, posing them as “ordinary people”. Most ordinary people are not ex- or on-going councillors or election candidates for the Labour party. Yet again Better Together being very ‘economical with the truth’.

    These articles should stop they serve no purpose other than to stir up trouble where none exists.

    ROFL! Ach, ye’ve been trolling all along… Tsk!

  78. R-type Grunt says:

    “Clydebank AND Milngavie”? I wonder what the good people of Clydebank think of that slur.

    Good work again Stu.

  79. john says:

    Should keep this. I would LOVE to see how many of them succeed in coming through the ranks!!!hahaha

  80. Robert Peffers says:

    chossy says: 23 August, 2014 at 5:12 pm:

    ”This is a chuffa article, sorry. I know what you are getting at in that these people are presented as joe bloggs from down the road, but no-one is, during this campaign.

    Oh! Come on, Chossy, that’s pure, rectally sphinctered, bovine waste matter. You are either completely loopy or deliberately deflecting the obvious truth. No one who is out there on the streets is apolitical but there is a difference in that these, “Changeling”, ordinary activists are not ordinary party members or supporters they are past office holders, councillors, ex-councillors, MPs\MSPs\MEPs , ex-MPs\MSPs\MEPs ex-candidates and members of associated party affiliates.

    They are in effect actual members of, “The Establishment”, fighting for their own selected spot at the feeding trough. Let me ask you a question – How many ordinary paid-up members of the Labour Party, Trade Union political levy payers or paid up members of the Tory or Lib-Dem party are out there on the street? Remember that all political parties publish their membership figures.

  81. alexicon says:

    Been to the local Falkirk YES stall today and believe me it was very busy with people from all walks of life.
    The local no campaigners, who are really Tories from Stirling, were there too, but all they’re visitors were pensioners that already had their pensions without working the extra years.
    I’m all right Jack fuck you is what these pensioners are really doing.
    Any chance of you all giving the very hard working YES team at Falkirk a thumbs up for all the work they are doing.

    C’mon guys.

  82. P.R.D. says:

    Hope an independent Scotland rids itself of the socio-political stagnation of the dedicated political activists but that will take a bigger political shift in attitude than even that of the YES movement.

    But I fear that we will end up with the same lack of social mobility as there is now, there is no reason to think that independence alone can break the socio-political stagnation that plagues Scotland, indeed it could even strengthen the grip of the dedicated political activists.

  83. Caroline Corfield says:

    Just for a bit of balance, I feel that I must point out at one point I was the Honorary Secretary of the Student Representative Council at Paisley College of Technology, I therefore had a position on the executive committee, 30 years ago. I was awarded a lifetime membership of the student union. At around the same time I was active and a party member of the Labour party, going round doors in Paisley on behalf of Labour MPs and candidates that couldn’t be arsed themselves.

    I’d not actually consider myself particularly ordinary when it comes to political activism, I’ve been on marches, occupied sites, signed petitions, wrote to my MPs and withheld my poll tax.

    Ordinary as interpreted by a person is very subjective, everyone may well consider themselves ordinary, but in this political example, their political life is patently not that of an ordinary member of the public. I suspect an ordinary person’s political activism is that they vote, I suppose in some wards it may be that they don’t vote.

    I can’t think of a situation prior to the grass roots Yes campaign with the exception of the poll tax demos where people who usually just voted, got more politically active.

    Politically interested people being interested in politics isn’t news unless as in this case they are by their nondisclosure being economic with the truth.

  84. JWil says:

    It would be interesting to know the backgrounds of some of the more vociferous NOs who appear in the audiences of BBC debates with questions. Can we have a question from the guy with the blue tie, as the BBC compere might say.

  85. Caroline Corfield says:

    P.R.D. :
    I think the “I kent his faither” will get stronger in a smaller population, connections between people and their elected representatives will be closer by default, hopefully the idea that someone who is incompetent can make a career out of representing people badly will be seen for what it is, and the days of the donkey in the rosette will be numbered. The defence that the donkey is at least on our side in a hostile parliament will be much harder to make: aside from the quite appalling behaviour after the SNP majority it was a lovely thing to see a parliament indulging in respect and consensus for the good of the country. I hope it will return.

  86. Sydthesnake says:

    I think these television debates have definitely got plants, I’m sure when the last debate was on Ponsoby pointed to a guy to ask his question, the guy started to ask his question, but was stopped mid sentence, “not you the man directly behind you” said Ponsonby, they guy from behind then tried to character assassinate Salmond???

  87. joe kane says:

    Better Together must be one of the greenest political campaigns in history given all the same crap, from the same people it constantly and diligently recycles day in and day out.

    BT is the London-centric British Establishment in a nutshell. Back-scratching endorsements for each other; pretending to be mortal enemies when they’re nothing of the sort; and think they’re so bloody clever in fooling the public into imagining that they give a shit about them and their unimportant little lives in unimportant culture-less backwaters like Motherwell. They only turn up in these Scottish hell-holes for photo-ops and if any local dares ask them awkward questions they get demonised as abusive nats and the like. After all, these uppity local oiks should know their place.

    Anyway, Scottish Pound worth more than ordinary Pound according to some in the Hong Kong financial market –
    Scottish independence gets boost from Hong Kong’s money markets
    South China Morning Post

  88. Croompenstein says:

    Was at my sisters today and she told me that she has applied for a proxy vote for my 96 year old housebound Nana. I hadn’t spoken to my Nana about the referendum as she’s a bit hard of hearing and we tend to keep it small talk. I must admit I thought she would be a no as her and my Papa, sadly passed, were old Scot Tory’s not the Thatcher neo-lib types but the old 50’s style Scot Tory.

    But to my surprise my sister informed me that she is voting yes, I wondered why and was told well she couldn’t bring herself to vote against her country and that since she is nearing the end of her life she wants to give the young folk the chance she never had. I kinda welled up and thought yes my 96 year old Nana at last has the power to decide her nations future.

  89. HandandShrimp says:

    I haven’t read Derek’s piece yet but if it has mindless reactionary hacks like Roden and McColm twitching then I need to mark it on my to do list.

  90. Grouse Beater says:

    My friends of Scotland here will find Ian Bell’s column in today’s (Saturday) Herald an excellent companion piece to Wings forensic investigation of the No’s sorry parade of bogus ‘ordinary’ members of the public.

    On that subject – they are all well set up portraits, the subjects posing – a sure giveaway to the the alert.

  91. Croompenstein says:

    I should have added although she’s 96 my Nana is an ordinary voter but an extraordinary woman

  92. neil allan says:

    What is the point of all this? That none of the Yes Activists (sorry boys but not too thick on the ground in east Scotland) have no previous affinity to any political party? I am a no activist but have not a been a memebr of any political party these 30 years

    Neil Allan

  93. bald eagle says:

    Caroline Corfield

    I hope you don’t mind me asking have you got a family member
    named joe older than you maybe father in law that worked in glasgow in the 70-80s

  94. Grouse Beater says:

    Caroline: I think the “I kent his faither” will get stronger in a smaller population,

    Well, speaking only out of personal experience, I have had that cobwebbed denigrator tossed at me a few times in my work so far, but when asked to speak at a Yes evening (my one invitation, sniff) I was introduced as a ‘polymath.’ It made me very happy. I regarded it as a sign my nation was growing up.

  95. Nana Smith says:


    Your Nana is a wise woman. She knows we are YES for generations to come.

  96. Croompenstein says:

    Thanks Nana

  97. Croompenstein says:

    @neil allan –

    I am a no activist

    Since you’re on neil could you please please give me one positive case for the union and why we are better together?

  98. HandandShrimp says:


    We are Yes activists but a fair few of us are not particularly party political. I have never joined a political party in all my days and I have voted Labour, SNP, Green and even Liberal over the years. The Yes side can easily muster people like me. It is a continual surprise that No stick so rigidly to people that are so heavily involved in their own specific parties. They must have less affiliated people too.

    It seems to me like a lack of trust and a top down approach to campaigning.

  99. galamcennalath says:

    Awww, don’t you just feel sorry for them?

    No one little bit! These individuals have chosen party allegience over what’s best for their country. They will look back on this and feel ashamed of themselves.

  100. Sydthesnake says:

    Neil Allan, as a No Supporter surely you must be sick and tired of all the negative things BT are coming out with, if they thought this “fear the public into voting NO tactic” would work then they are surely wrong, they have become a one trick pony, they keep banging on about the Pound, there are much more important issued than this, what’s their plan B for a yes vote?
    you have the floor convince me.

  101. Croompenstein says:

    @Nana – looks like someone is in the market to mint our new Scottish currency…

  102. Nana Smith says:


    Ooooh shiny new things for a shiny new beginning….YES

  103. tartanfever says:

    Neil Allan:

    The point is they are being paraded as ‘ordinary public’ by BT when they are in fact party activists.

    I thought that was pretty obvious.

  104. john king says:

    Just whats so wrong with the REAL ordinary voters who clearly Do support no? why are they not keen to get their opinions?
    is it because every time they ask them for an opinion it is either anti catholic, anti protestant, anti someone, and doesn’t fit with the (inclusive) theme about family they would love us to swallow?

    I went to Leith today and saw some incredible people who were out in the pissing rain manning stalls for National Collective, Academics for Yes, English Scots for Yes, The Yes Campaign, Labour for Independence,NHS for Yes and many more, in spite of my wifes walking difficulties she just had to see more people and visit all the stalls, everyone was asking why Wings didnt have a stall? I saw a certain wingers wee sports car car on Leith walk but I didnt see him, everyone was asking about the WBB.

  105. shug says:

    does anyone have a suitable list of quotes

    Milliband/Brown/Lamont – supporting right wing policies, cuts, imigration etc

    same for the others

  106. john king says:

    PeeGee @ 5.40 wind it in mate.

  107. tartanfever says:


    Sounds like it was a great day despite the weather. Well done you and the mrs.

    That’s a good point about the WBB, I’m not sure where we are with it. I’m in South Lanarkshire, have a car and plenty of free time and would be happy to help putting them through letterboxes.

    Do we need a new thread on the website where we can volunteer services or has that discussion already taken place and I missed it (most likely) ?

  108. Nana Smith says:

    UKOK were handing out these disgusting leaflets today.

  109. tartanfever says:


    Rachel Reeves, (Labour) Shadow Work and Pensions minister:

    ‘Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits, promises new welfare chief.
    Rachel Reeves vows to cut welfare bill and force long-term jobless to take up work offers or lose state support’

  110. Thepnr says:


    Well done to your Nana, one women, one vote but they all count.

    Give her my thanks for believing that the Scottish people can prove to be more capable at running their country than the lot we often never elect.

    Your Nana may be ordinary but her vision is remarkable.

  111. laukat says:

    I was at NHS for yes today at the Victoria Infirmary and it was interesting in that there was maybe 60 people there. However the thing that caught my eye was that the adults feel comfortable enough to bring their kids knowing that the atmosphere will be fun and friendly. Its not the first Yes event I have been to and they always have the same mix of adults and kids.

    It made me think why you never see this at No events? Is it further confirmation that their campaign is only attended by political wannabees or has the potential to be attended by people you wouldn’t want your kids to mix with?

  112. Croompenstein says:

    @thepnr – Cheers pnr it was a nice shock for me to learn that she is voting yes and it got me quite emotional

  113. mr thms says:

    Three year old article but still relevent

    “BP and its partners are developing four new oil and gas projects that together will involve a total investment of almost £10 billion in the UK’s oil industry over the next five years and help to maintain BP’s production from the North Sea for decades to come.”


  114. Croompenstein says:

    OT – Watching Dr Who but I wonder if I’ll still be allowed to watch it 4 weeks tonight?

  115. Grouse Beater says:

    We won’t be able to see ‘Dr Who’ and he’s played by a Scot!

    How the unionists rub salt in the wound!

  116. mr thms says:

    From last year.. so more relevant 😉

    “Edward Davey, Energy and Climate Change Secretary, said: “This announcement by BP of a two year appraisal programme for the Greater Clair area West of Shetland is excellent news. It shows the industry’s commitment to maximise the potential in this area, which could hold up to 17% of our oil and gas reserves.

    “Greater Clair proves there is still a long future for oil and gas production in the North Sea and will give confidence to new recruits that the industry offers a career for life.””

  117. Kev says:

    It really makes you scratch your head and wonder what true support they actually have amongst the population. If the folk on their website aren’t genuine, their “grassroots” campaigners are bussed up and paid, their public meetings are actually private, the polls are hugely flawed, the only folk who are genuinely No seem to be the staff of our media and newspapers.

  118. Sydthesnake says:

    Croompenstein, definitely not, with that pesky Scottish bloke it will be outlawed

  119. mr thms says:

    # Croompenstein

    Unfortunately the BBC Charter expires 31/12/2016

  120. Sydthesnake says:

    come 01/01/2017 SBC?

  121. Sydthesnake says:

    without any of the current liars hopefully

  122. Graeme Doig says:

    John King

    Agreed. Pee Gee at 5.40. Not clever mate.

  123. crazycat says:

    @ tartanfever

    I was in Strathaven today at a Women for Independence stall; I believe the copies of the WBB we were offering people came from the Lanark hub.

    You could ask them whether they have a distribution strategy, perhaps.

  124. Graeme Doig says:


    Wee reminder about Brian Nixon’s petition on 38Degrees calling for fairness in BBC debate.
    Probaby pissin in the wind but needs a few hundred hits to reach 3000 target.
    Sorry for lack of link. Will need to get a ‘link’ lesson asap.

  125. john king says:

    Laukat @7.50
    Absolutely bang on the money.

  126. BuckieBraes says:

    @Nana Smith
    Those leaflets might merit closer examination – Rev?

  127. bald eagle says:

    who cares about dr who

    i’m still sitting by the phone waiting for my love call from davy

    lesley anne will you hurry up with the photos of rorys wishing well

    heres a message for the unionists


  128. Croompenstein says:

    @Graeme – here it is..

    and the Dr is getting a few subliminal digs in…

  129. @shug


    Something for nothing and Scots aren’t programed to make decisions or similar.

  130. Graeme Doig says:

    Thanks again folks 🙂

  131. john king says:

    re creating links, if you put you mouse on the address bar at the top of the screen and hold down the left button and pull the mouse over the address pulling it to the left from right, you will see the address turn blue then you press control and c (both at the same time) to copy it then go to your post and press control and v (both at the same time) to paste it and the link will appear on you post, if it is text leave the address as it is, if it is a youtube video take out the http:// when you paste the link in or the rev has you eviscerated, and thats when he’s in a good mood. 🙂
    it would seem when you leave the http:// in,(only with a youtube video) it embeds the video and makes the rev’s life hell apparently. 🙁

  132. Onwards says:


    “ my surprise my sister informed me that she is voting yes, I wondered why and was told well she couldn’t bring herself to vote against her country..”

    I think a lot of NO minded voters are going to have this feeling, and that’s why I hope the polls might show a big swing for YES on the day.

    Even if they are unsure, or even if they think we might be slightly poorer at first, it’s going to be a hard thing to vote against the independence of your country.

    It’s like an admission that we aren’t good enough to step up and take our own place in the world.

    I imagine this is why BT will be pushing the postal votes hard – because of doubts on the day.

    Who wants to tell their children or grandchildren that they voted against Scotland becoming a normal country, because they were a bit scared ?

  133. Re Change 38 I stopped subscribing when previously they chickened out from running a similar petition re the BBC a few years ago as it didn’t suit their own personal agenda even though it was the most voted next subject.

  134. Re Change 38 I stopped subscribing when previously they chickened out from running a similar petition re the BBC a few years ago as it didn’t suit their own personal agenda even though it was the most voted next subject.

  135. fred blogger says:

    here it is.
    “we are not genetically programmed….”

  136. Thepnr says:

    All the ordinary voters in Scotland will vote Yes.

    The leaders and activists of BTNT, tradional Tory voters, landowners, most millionaires and billionaires like Sir Ian Wood CBE will vote No.

    Result 63% Yes 37% No.

    We are gubbing them 🙂

  137. Marcia says:

    You have read articles from him, now see him in this documentary about polling in this referendum – James Kelly from Scot Goes Pop;

  138. PeeGee says:

    I’m as big and clever as I need to be and P Hutcheon has proven that he will tell any lie you like for a healthy salary. This is a war we are fighting. A war using votes instead of tanks and bombs but a war nonetheless. The entire existence of Scotland will be decided on September 18th. Enemies of truth must be confronted and defeated. So fuck you!

    In other news. E Balls shows he doesn’t know how the Euro works. Unless maybe he’s just another liar?

    Ed Balls says Scotland would have to join the euro as ‘least bad’ option
    Shadow chancellor fears vote for independence would leave no alternative but single currency he views as deeply flawed

  139. laukat says:

    @John King – Thanks

    Other possibility is that the No campaign does not have a younger generation? Is it possible that the No campaign is now mainly voters over 50 with kids who have grown up? Are the No campaigns grandchildren less likely to grow up as No voters? Is this why No are desperate for this campaign to be a once and for all as they know that Yes vote is only going to be stronger in the future?

  140. Croompenstein says:

    Dr Who is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

  141. Edulis says:

    I need some TLC. I was disappointed today to find that at our Highland Games in Drumnadrochit, we had no ‘Yes’ stall unlike last year. I reckon the Games Committee took the view that they didn’t want political contention but maybe it was because of the no-show from BTNT last year.

    Rather reluctantly I have come to the view that with 30% local English incomers there is quite a deal of support for BTNT. Even a couple of ‘No Thanks’ posters at the top of our road is enough to lower the tone. I will counter with a blizzard of ‘Yes’ stickers.

  142. Papadox says:

    Denying us EBC in an independent Scotland – ANOTHER PLUS FOR YES. Ta MAGRIT. yer some women so ye ur.

  143. fred blogger says:

    my god look @ this!

  144. Dal Riata says:

    Sorry, O/T and sorry, it’s long.

    I was watching a local amateur fooball match in our small town this afternoon. I saw someone there I hadn’t seen for ages and while watching the game together another person I also hadn’t seen for a good while stopped beside us. There was the usual chat about the local team, Scottish and world football in general. All good fun. Then the subject of the referendum was brought up….

    Man on right (side) (using paraphrasing): “Did ye see that fuckin’ lot gettin’ their photie taken wi thur fuckin’ Yes signs and all that shite down the street the other day? Bunch a fuckin’ c***s!”

    Man on left (side) (using paraphrasing): “Naw, but a can just i-fuckin’-magine it – wankers!”

    They hadn’t seen the Yes badge on my jacket.

    Me: (Showing them my Yes badge) Take a look here, lads. I’m one of those “c***s” and “wankers”…

    Mor: “For fuck’s sake, yer kiddin’… yer wan ae them?!”

    Mol: “Get tae fuck, ur ye serious!?”

    A scene setter:

    This place here is your typical west of Scotland, conservative (usually small ‘c’, but sometimes big ‘C’), mostly protestant, strongly Rangers supporting, Masonic Lodge-going small town.

    Anyway, our friendly chatting took a turn for the worse unfortunately, not in a shouty/sweary way, but it was as if I’d suddenly become… One. Of. Them. I had suddenly become ‘the enemy’. It was very, very disconcerting, to say the least. I kept thinking Mor was going to take a swing at me!

    I just couldn’t believe the animosity, if not outright hatred toward the cause of Scottish independence and those who promote the Yes Scotland cause. It was quite shocking to be confronted with such hostility for supporting your own country’s independence from old friends with whom you’d been getting on with just fine moments before.

    They spouted the tired Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid stuff like it was gospel. And Alicsammin, of course.

    Mor: And the oil, eh! The stuff’s runnin’ oot and that wanker Salmond’s lyin’ tae us aboot it, sayin’ wuv got plenty and we should save it fur oorselves. How the fuck can we do that when thurs gonnae be none left!”

    Me: No, that’s not true, because…

    Mor: It is fuckin’ true! And all that oil off Shetland, they’ll keep that fur themselves… after they vote to stay in the UK!

    Me: Eh, no, sorry.”enclave”, “Scotland’s Exclusive Economic Zone”, “12-mile radius from coastline with right to resources”, “very little oil within the radius”…

    Mor: Ach away wi ye! Pish! And that fuckin’ Salmond wants to be the heed-bummer-king of Scotland…

    Mol: Aye. President for life, probably.

    Me: No, that won’t happen. You do know there would be an election in 2016, don’t you? New parties and all that stuff?

    Mol: But Scotland’s too wee (honestly, those were the words!) to be independent.

    Me: Eh, Denmark has a population similar to Scotland and they’re doing pretty well, thank you very much. By the way, have ye heard of the McCrone Report?

    Mol: Aye, but politicians ur aw the same, thur aw at it.

    Me: Whit? Do ye know there’s oil-a-plenty no that far away from us here on the west coast that could be Scotland’s once Trident is gone?

    Mol: Ach, that Salmond’ll say any fuckin’ thing!

    Me: You do know that the BBC and every newspaper in the UK is lying, misinforming and scaremongering on a daily basis, don’t you?

    Mol: Youz lot would say that, wouldn’t yez, eh!

    And finally the clincher…

    Me: So, why don’t you want Scotland to be independent?

    Mor: We’d just end up fighting each other! All hell’d break loose and we’d be at each other’s fuckin’ throats.

    Mol: Aye, yer right!

    Me: [sigh] Ah well. Let’s just agree to disagree, then, eh?

    Mor and Mol: Mutter, mutter…

    We watched the rest of the game without any more referendum references, but with a change in the air, shall we say.

    It did knock the wind out my sails, though, right enough. The amount of willing ignorance, anger and downright hatred was sad and scary at the same time.

    If this wee town with its ‘Rangers till we die. Rule Brittania.’ and Masonic handshakes gets a 50%+1 Yes result it would be a victory of enormous magnitude. Yes Scotland has got a bit of a hard sell here, that’s for sure. But we’ve just got to keep doing all we can to get that Yes vote.

    It’s days like this that I despair for Scotland and some of its inhabitants.

  145. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dal Riata –

    That sounds a pretty upsetting experience, and it couldn’t have been easy writing about it.

  146. Croompenstein says:

    @Dal Riata – are you from Drongan or Patna?

  147. shug says:

    list started

  148. Brian Mchugh says:

    Dal… I have come across it too… from otherwise fairly intelligent people (well, at least I would hope so).

    It comes down to pure ignorance and a lack of educating themselves to the facts.

    Console yourself in picturing their faces on September 19th… the shock to their systems will be their own fault, in that they remained ignorant and were too lazy to take the time to do their own research.


  149. Mealer says:

    Dal Riata
    There are areas where you can hardly find a NO voter.Keep up your good work.

  150. macart763m says:

    @muttley 79 (6.03pm)

    Couldn’t agree more. Much like our public servants these individuals exist to serve our requirements, our needs. There job is to search out facts and hold others to account on our behalf. When they fail in this task, as they are patently seen to be doing now, then the only course left open to us is to remove our support.

    I haven’t bought a single title since the first year of this campaign and I doubt I’ll ever subscribe to another newspaper as long as I live.

  151. highseastim says:

    Marcia, that clip with James Kelly has re-enforced even more, my belief that a YES vote is there for the taking on 18th September!!

  152. John Lind says:

    Love that Gallacher’s parents are both supporters of independence.

  153. Graeme Doig says:

    John King

    Cheers bud i’ll try that.

    Dal Riata

    Different experience for me at my boy’s football today. One right Honourable Gordon Brown turned up watching another game. Couldn’t resist the temptation to ask where he was spouting his lies and conning the Scottish people today. He didn’t say a word just an awkward look.
    I didn’t want to hang about as his ‘mates’ didn’t look too happy.
    It started a conversation with some of the football dad’s at the game though who turned out to be YES.
    Don’t lose heart mate. Must be painful dragging their fists about behind them.

  154. Training Day says:

    New theme in the media today. Yes supporters ‘admitting’ that independence won’t happen (Frankie Boyle) or that Yes has failed to give women hope ( Elaine C Smith)

    Expect to see an article in the next day or so where Salmond ‘admits’ he doesn’t want independence. Step forward Paul Hutcheon.

  155. Brian Mchugh says:

    Just wanted to add that whenever there is a Townhall/School debate, the before and after polls always show a shift to Yes… and in general, Yes has been surely and steadily closing the gap (to very much neck and neck now).

    We know the NO campaign and their compliant media’s agenda is purely to hold onto the uninformed, such as Dal Riata’s pals above… the Yes campaigns’ priority is the promotion of information and to educate as many folk as we can till polling day and its starting to look like the Marathon we were promised… you know, the eventual winner sitting in behind the leader, getting ready to make the move for the line. 😉

  156. Croompenstein says:

    @Graeme – One right Honourable Gordon Brown turned up

    Magic Graeme, I wish you had asked the fish moothed f*cker – Is Scotland a net contributor to the UK ? Yes or No

  157. Ian Brotherhood says:

    SSP stall in Saltcoats this afternoon, right beside the Yes stall. Both very busy, and largely friendly ‘banter’ with interested locals.

    One of the guys ran out of patience with a early sixty-ish woman who was at the wind-up, kept asking who was going to fix this, abolish that, deal with all the Poles, believe the Holyrood government any more than they would Westminster, yada yada yada ad nauseum…

    The man tried to answer. He really did. But on and on she went, being contrary for the sake of it.

    Eventually, he raised his palm to stop her.

    ‘Listen hen, in the time I’ve spent listening to your pish I could’ve handed out a hundred leaflets, maybe even sold a few papers. You’re not getting any answers you like so you keep making up new questions. You want it all handed to you on a plate? Tell you what. Why don’t you just go away and do some reading for yourself? Do some homework. I know you don’t have a computer but you said your lassie does. Ask her to help you. No disrespect hen, but you’re wasting my time, and we’ve got a job to do here. So. Cheerio.’

    If she’d ever been spoken to like that before then she made a very good job of acting otherwise, and off she went without another word. These people really are trying everyone’s patience, and it must be much much more difficult when they happen to be friends or family.

    Solid ‘No’s’ with solid reasons? Fair enough. But those who are intellectually bone idle and try to project an air of authority on subjects they know nothing about? They will have to shoulder much of the blame if we don’t win.

  158. liz says:

    @Dal Riata – that’s a shame you had a bad experience – you will never change the minds of people like that, we just have to hope there is not enough of them.

    The reason I think they are so angry is because deep down to feel that you live in a country which is such a failure must be a sad place to be.

  159. schrodinger's cat says:

    Croompenstein says:

    23 August, 2014 at 8:44 pm

    Dr Who is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

    the bbc is shite so who cares if they cut the transmitter!

  160. Brian Mchugh says:

    Ian, couldn’t agree more… Ignorance of the law is no excuse… Ignorance of governance should not be either.

    Both law and politics are keystones in defining the society we inhabit.

  161. mr thms says:

    Don’t forget to pick up a copy of the Sunday Herald in the morning.. it has an excellent freebie..

  162. Another Union Dividend says:

    Dal Riata says: @8.57

    Having been brought up in West Lothian I fully understand where you are coming from.

    The biggest problem the YES campaign has is that the Scottish media will not tell the truth and for the last seven years the UK right wing media has monstered Alex Salmond / SNP / YES at ever opportunity and the BBC has a vested interest to maintain the status quo.

    More importantly in these areas the North British Labour party is more concerned about maintained its Westminster / House of Lords privileges than the local populations concerns or Scotland’s democratic rights.

  163. Sydthesnake says:

    Dal Riata
    you need to listen to Art Garfunkel “why Worry”
    this will chill you out and refresh you for the battle, I have been converting nearly everybody I come across but alas there always someone who refuses to listen to reason, their getting their facts from BBC unfortunately, I always feel I have failed when I can’t convert them, but so far all my employees and every one bar one of my immediate family have seen the light, ( I will get them over from the dark side before 18th )

    never ever give in, we will prevail of that I’m certain


  164. Dal Riata says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    You’re right, it was upsetting and hard to write about.

    I had the feeling that Mor was just itching to plant me one! I deliberately brought the ‘discussion’ to a close – with a Britnat ranter on each side mocking and sneering it took all my patience and cool not to let it get out of hand.

    We’re not young, have known each other for years and played in the same football team (amateur) together back in the day. But just for that length of time during our ‘discussion’ I had become the ‘enemy’. Just mental stuff.


    No, not from either of those places, Croompenstein. I’m in Argyllshire. Coincidentally, back in the day, our local team drew Patna, away, in the Scottish Amateur Cup, I think it was… and we got gubbed!

    @Brian McHugh

    Cheers! It seems to be a common trait among the “I’m definitely voting No… just because!” lot. Far easier to put your fingers in your ears and go, “I’m not listening. I’m not listening. Nyah, nyah, na, na.”


    Thanks! It’s a tough shift in this neck of the woods, especially when some of the local Britnats are calling *us* ("Tractor" - Ed)s, FFS.

  165. Drew Macleod says:

    Yip! A tale of “ordinary” folks!

  166. Graeme Doig says:


    Lots of things i wanted to say but probably wouldn’t have had access to internet where i ended up 🙂

  167. Thepnr says:


    Thanks for that link, I understand better now how the polls can be manipulated.

  168. Caroline Corfield says:

    bald eagle

    my uncle Joe Orr died in 1997, lived in Cambuslang, he did work in Glasgow city centre somewhere in the 90’s as I met him by chance outside the BP building when I worked there briefly in 1992. I have other uncles 🙂

  169. schrodinger's cat says:

    @Caroline Corfield
    welcome 🙂

  170. Harry McAye says:

    Was in Hamilton today campaigning for the first time in a while. First the positives. The Yes stall was very busy with folk seeking us out, a few WBBs were handed out, one by me to a woman who said their only real issue was taxation to afford Scotland becoming independent. Gave her the WBB along with the Your Choice booklet with a few flyers inside. But heard some negative comments, some hostility (“you’re a separatist”) and some staggering views.

    A man of 82 who said he watched all the political stuff and said he liked the SNP government but not Salmond, said he was a definite No. Seems we won’t get any money from oil, it all goes to the oil companies. I mentioned Norway, not interested in Norway. Try again. What about all those rich countries that control their oil. It won’t happen to us. One last try. Do you think Scotland is Westminster’s No 1 priority? Bit taken aback. “We get our share”. Do you agree that whoever is in charge of an independent Scotland, Scotland will always come first. “No”. No reasoning with him. A few well to do looking old ladies dismissing folk, “not interested” said one, presumably not interested in voting Yes. They are doing ok and can’t see beyond their own nose. But as I said, plenty of positives and I was only there for an hour. Good to see folk searching for answers and coming up to you rather that what sometimes feels like accosting folk yourself. I can see the WBB making a big difference but some folk are simply beyond help and like the long post above, will not believe anything from the Yes side but will happily beleive Cameron, Darling and the rest. Sad.

  171. Caroline Corfield says:

    Grouse Beater:

    I agree it’s a horrible thing to hear, but I rather meant the general connectedness behind that kind of statement than the idea you can’t escape your family history, or that some kind of nepotism has got you where you are.

    I think Scotland’s population is big enough to balance out the fact that you can easily have known important politicians as childhood friends or classmates against the idea that politicians are a breed apart from us mere mortals.

    It’s a benefit of the Scottish education system that we care not whether someone was state educated or private educated, the latter simply indicated money to burn. Here in the North East of England at one point it was felt state education was so bad many families struggled to pay for private education for their children.

  172. Sydthesnake says:

    I had a small debate with lovely Irish woman in Launderette in sunny Ayrshire yesterday, she was a NO, I asked her why, she said my mammy will kill me if I vote yes, her mammy’s in Ireland?
    she says the Oil’s running out, we can’t keep the pound, oohh, that’s a new one, let me guess the BBC, yes she said
    I told her to come to Wings and get enlightened, hope she does

  173. tartanfever says:


    Must admit when I meet a die hard unionist and I’m having a chat about my support for independence I keep it simple when they ask why I’m a Yes.

    ‘I like free prescriptions and eye test’

    ‘That free bus pass is handy getting into town’

    ‘My elderly mother is being looked after’

    ‘Thats my nephew away to uni, no fees to worry about, he can get a degree and set himself up’

    ‘ Good to see the pension age will remain at 65 in an independent Scotland’

    ‘All those things that me and you get that England doesn’t because of the SNP government. Aye sure enough that Salmond’s a cock !’

    If you relate to people one way in which they benefit from the SNP in power at Holyrood over Westminster you have the power to make people look:

    a) very stupid

    b) at themselves and their beliefs again.

    If they can’t manage that level of honesty, it’s probably not worth it.

  174. Wee Alec says:

    We have Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, UKIP, BNP, OO, BBC, National Press, Obama, House of Lords, Eddie Izzard and Kermit the Frog all against Independence and yet the people of Scotland have seen through their lies and deception and prefer the positive YES message. Oh forgot Tony Abbot, the Australian Primr Minister.

    I loved the New Zealand postcard on

    Says it all.

  175. Boorach says:

    Had a fantastic day with a ‘Yes’ stall in Invergordon. Highland Games day and 2 cruise ships ib the harbour the High Street was buzzing.

    Lots of local Yessers grabbing saltires, badges and window/car stickers with plenty of chat and huge smiles. Even had a couple of squaddies (based at Fort George) grabbing whatever they could. They reckon that their regiment are at least 90% Yes.

    A fire tender caused something of a traffic jam while the grew availed themsemves of the offered goodies paid for with a blast on the siren as they departed.

    The cruise ships passengers were interesting. The larger carrying predominently Americans and Canadians who were interested in the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. The other ship was carrying mostly English folk who in the main were complaining about the lack of information being carried in the MSM down there and seem to be painfully unaware of what is coming down the road for them in the event of a Yes vote.

    Another couple I spoke to were/are German and very supportive being fully aware that we wish to stay in the EU while Westminster only wants to be in on their own terms.

    The few naysayers ploughed a wide path around us with looks that would have killed a less optimistic bunch.

    Aye, a good day.

  176. Ealasaid says:

    On the bus through Edinburgh, Bruntsfield and Morningside, today. Plenty of stickers/flags in windows and I would guess overall that it was 3 to 1 Yes to No. Yes certainly had the most eye-catching displays. Maybe since the Nos were identifying themselves they should get a Wee Blue Book through the door.

  177. heedtracker says:

    The Lonach Games at Strathdon felt like the uk was a thing of the past now. The amount of huge Saltires was some sight to behold up there this afternoon.

  178. Croompenstein says:

    @Nana – That was brilliant what a no mark Murphy is he should double up with Lord Naw Naw and save folk a load of trouble telling them to get tae F

  179. Thepnr says:

    @Dal Riata

    Hopefully your not too disheartened by your friends response. The problem for them is their own ignorance of the whole debate.

    I was having a quiet pint by myself in my local after work with the computer on and reading Wings.

    Opposite me at the bar a conversation started about Independence, 2 for Yes and 2 for No who didn’t know each other. The No’s were loud with their Al-iqsmammon.

    I could take no more and got off my seat and walked between the opposing groups.

    Sorry I said for butting in but what you have just said is complete rubbish. Their faces were a picture, I corrected them on their mistaken views and the funny thing was that after 10 minutes both the No’s joined me at “my” table.

    They walked away with Aye Right cards and my email address, I’ve got his and will send him the Wee Blue Book.

    Don’t be intimidated by the ignorant, just try and educate them.

  180. Nana Smith says:


    Hilarious & what a shifty bunch

  181. pin says:


  182. Croompenstein says:

    Went to watch the news there but FFS silly me there is no news in Scotland on a Saturday night, roll on Marcia with the SH front page

  183. Dal Riata says:

    @Graeme Doig

    Nice one. So the Broon loon has got his uses after all!


    Hi there! You wouldn’t believe the hold that “The famous Glasgow Rangers” has on some people round here.

    Example, and true: A local friend got a ‘Dear John’ email from his long-term girlfriend to tell him it was all over between them. I met him some days later. He looked devastated. I asked him what was wrong. He replied, “Well, I got this email from herself the other day – not good news, man. But you know what’s even worse? It looks like Rangers are going to go bust… That’s fucked, man. It’s not good, not good at all. What am I supposed to do without the Gers?”

    That’s true that is, I swear. This stuff was going on when it looked like Rangers might even fold due to their, ahem, money worries.

    @Another Union Dividend

    Yup, we cannot deny, as much as we would like to, that the entire UK broadcast and print MSM hasn’t been successful in ‘persuading’ plenty voters to No. As have been all those LibLabCon troughers with their ‘vested interests’. If Scotland does vote majority Yes it will be a battle won against incredible odds… Well, we’ve done it before. And we can do it again. Here’s tae us.


    Thanks for the encouragement, Sydthesnake. And keep up your good work!

  184. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Just watched Andrew Marr’s propaganda.

    The citizens of the New Town are all apparently unionist, whilst the citizens of the Auld Toon are for independence.

    Yes, we get the metaphor Andrew, and laugh at it.

  185. Clarinda says:

    Re – those who say they will vote NO.

    Met with one a few days ago and like all the others here gave calm and robust answers and/or corrections to some of her No ‘thinking’. Despite being a questionable analogy I suggested that her attitude could equate to a decision to her cutting off a healthy foot and even if I gave her all the reasons against would she still cut it off? Bit of a silence and she announced that she wouldn’t cut off her foot in the first place – I rested my case. Probably won’t work but it stopped her rant and perhaps she might think about appreciating what we have and the potential needless loss of resources and self-reliance.

    Buoyed by the increasing number of YES signage between Perth and Dundee. Noted the helpful additions made to two NO Thanks signs by persons probably not inclined to support Better Together.

  186. heedtracker says:

    Andrew Marr is a genius Conan, lol

    Why is currency union fine now but wont be on the 19th Sept and other terrors of no or is it Labour in Scotland on the way out for a few decades?

    “Turning up the heat on Salmond ahead of a debate likely to be dominated by the currency issue, Balls, who opposed UK entry into the euro when he worked for Gordon Brown, said an independent Scotland being part of a sterling currency area was “off the table”, as it would be too damaging to Scotland and the rest of the UK.

    Alternatively, if an independent Scotland opted to go it alone with its own new currency, whether pegged to the pound or the dollar, it would create massive risk and uncertainty, mean big rises in interest rates and mortgage costs and the loss of key financial business and trade.”

  187. twenty14 says:

    I firmly believe the last few weeks of our campaign must concentrate on the heart – all information for the head is out there.

  188. Robert Peffers says:

    @neil allan says: 23 August, 2014 at 7:09 pm:

    “sorry boys but not too thick on the ground in east Scotland) have no previous affinity to any political party?”

    Well the YESSERS sure aren’t thin on the ground in these parts. In any case you orobably should take a course in reading comprehension as you seem to have rather misunderstoot both the article and the comments.

    You are either a troll, or thick if you cannot understand what is being said. Now troll off.

  189. big jock says:

    Its the anger that always baffles me with hard line unionists I have met.It’s almost like blasphemy to suggest we might not want to be British or run from London.Incidently I am not voting yes for money or wealth.Its a combination of Scots identity and social equality and a big bit of replubicanism.

  190. Justin Neilson says:

    Is there anyone involved with Better Together who isn’t from the unionist activist/elected representative clique? Just who the hell is actually voting No this September that isn’t on the No payroll?

  191. Robert Peffers says:

    Croompenstein says: 23 August, 2014 at 7:16 pm:

    “Since you’re on neil could you please please give me one positive case for the union and why we are better together?

    Don’t be silly, Croompenstein, he’s a Naysayer!

  192. Meindevon says:

    That’s good advice on keeping it simple and promoting the positives.

    When I read the CiFs down here in the English papers I find it mind boggling that most hate Salmond with a vengeance and call him all sorts but mostly because Scotland have ‘free’ things that they would kill for. Ironically if we had a ‘Salmond’ to vote for, he would probably win hands down.

  193. Edward says:

    Lovely front page Marcia (good artwork with the oil dripping from the top of the page) 😀

  194. heedtracker says:

    @ Marcia, cheers for that! Thats a great front page too. The biggest UKOK fraud since they buried McCrone in a cellar under Whitehall called Sucka Scotch.

  195. Thepnr says:

    @Justin Neilson

    Just who the hell is actually voting No this September that isn’t on the No payroll?

    Good question.

  196. heedtracker says:

    When I hear someone say they’re voting no because they hate AlicSamin I get in close and say do you hate me, because I agree with him. Its a good start point.

    Where’s me WBB’s!!!

  197. mr thms says:

    Front page of the Sunday Herald..

    “Oil: the last-gasp scare story fails”

  198. Croompenstein says:

    @Marcia – nice one Marcia getting the front page to us so quickly, FM needs to hit Flipper with this right between those creepy granny caterpillar eyebrows of his

  199. msean says:

    And another neutral newspaper review,comedy gold.

  200. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Nana Smith –

    This Murphy Roadshow has already provided the bare bones of a fantastic feature-length documentary capturing the death throes of the Labour party in Scotland.

    He knows full well that he had no business striding about in front of Asda. If you or I tried it, with Yes and or SSP stuff? we’d be getting a visit from Store Security within minutes. Just as, if we used a loudhailer or PA system to shout ‘Your argument’s bigger than your arse!’ (as he did repeatedly in Shawlands last week) we’d be spending a few hours with Police Scotland’s finest.

    This is prima facie evidence that Murphy and his ilk feel entitled to flout laws which they themselves are responsible for creating.

    He’s a busted flush. Having said all that, it is wonderful entertainment – any idea who’s next for The Murphy Experience? (Oh please, please, please, all known Gods, bring him to Stevenston…shakes chicken-bones, starts twenty-minute incantation…)

  201. Sinky says:

    On Sky News at 10.55 Ed Balls says Scots will have to join the Euro.

    No serious challenge to this nonsense by the superior London metropolitan commentators other than to say Salmond has no plan B.

    This is what we are up against when 99% of the media is determined to mainatain the status quo,

  202. Fireproofjim says:

    Agree. Absolutely.
    I have emailed the Yes campaign to ask them to ensure that the next Newspaper is more inspiring and appeals to the heart.
    The current edition which I am delivering around Edinburgh is really boring and is almost the same as the last edition. It is unlikely to convert many don’t knows.

  203. Nana Smith says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Aye its the Murphy comedy show. Must look out for the next episode.

    Geez they are a shifty,creepy looking bunch.

  204. Sinky says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    The Murphy Roadshow is nothing to do with the Referendum but part of the Blairites plan to replace the useless Johann Lamont by Murphy and supported by the Labour media people such as John McTernan and Kirsty Wark on Newsnight UK… check out Thursday’s edition on Iplayer.

  205. tartanfever says:

    Thanks for posting the Sunday Herald front page.

    Thankfully they have gone for the oil story, I hope the inside story is as tough talking as the cover.

  206. Sinky says:

    Fireproofjim says:

    Unfortunately I understand that there will not be another newspaper but an information booklet which does resonate with our core voters

  207. Flower of Scotland says:


    Ah ha! Caught you out! Every night in the pub! I only go on Fridays!

    We have all been a bit upset with the vitriol from ” No friends “. I’ve learned to laugh at it and be really positive! It works!

    The grassroots campaign is truly amazing! I’ve met people leafleting that I would have never met! Facebook is a revelation! I’m on there a lot! All these Indy sites supporting each other is amazing to behold! I feel very positive! YES!

  208. big jock says:

    Jim Murphy describes himself as a patriot.Scotland must be the only nation in the world where patriotism means signing your country over to another parliament 400 miles away!Its just wrong and a strange kind of patriotism.The guy is full of and Jim the soft tone you adopt to make you sound reasonable makes you sound like a serial killer on a phone.If you really believed it you wouldn’t whisper dispationately.You ain’t got know soul man.However I do appreciate you are worried about your job and house in London.Too late to turn now Jim but you picked the wrong side!

  209. Edward says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Watched the Murphy in Motherwell video

    What I noticed, apart from the heckling & jeering from , what would have been traditional Labour’s grass roots voters. Was the people with Murphy. Totally aloof, totally new Labour. You had the guy in the black coat, blowing up the balloons, which I would hazard a guess was a London Intern. Fresh or nearly fresh out of university, doing what he was told to do. Most definitely not a native, as he had that metro-London look, never done a hard days work.

    Which was probably why he goy himself into trouble when inter acting with the green coated lady, by telling her she was only there because she didn’t have a job. The rest of the ‘Murphy Team’ were the same, soulless people. The exception was, what appeared to be a big built 60 something old school old Labour guy, probably the only local, helping out Murphy, because, well because he was Labour.

    There was no connection between Murphy or his ‘team’ with the locals.

    Its not just Murphy that’s in trouble with the electorate, but all Labour MP’s and MSP’s. Ask yourself this ; when was the last time that any Labour MP or MSP walked with the people, without the people first being vetted?

  210. manandboy says:

    Just seen Alistair Darling do the ice bucket challenge –
    except AD showed no reaction to the water
    as everyone does to the freezing water

    that’s the point – to replicate the sensation
    of ALS, a neurodegenerative disease.

    Aaand, there was no ice came out of the buckets/basins
    and none landed on the grass.

    I’ve seen this done in person
    and I reckon Alistair Darling
    has faked it by using warm water.

    Or maybe he was just cold enough already
    so he didn’t need to do the real thing.

    Another con trick
    from a true con artist

  211. Sinky says:

    We need to challenge this Balls nonsense that Scotland will be forced to join the Euro.

    The inadequacy of our media / TV broadcasters is such that none of them will point out that

    Speaking in May 2013, nine years after the Czech Republic joined the E.U., European Council president Herman Van Rompuy stated:
    “The prime minister added in his statement that it is even an obligation to join the euro, so that is nothing new. But you have to meet all the criteria. At this stage the Czech Republic is not meeting all the criteria, so the problem is not a problem today. But even if you meet the criteria, then of course the Czech Republic has to make its own decision in its own constitutional order. So I will not interfere in this internal debate; it’s up to the Czech Republic to make up its mind.“

  212. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I have read lots of the twittering on the Sunday Herald’s car stickers.
    I am getting completely pissed off by the number of eejits who seem to think the Sunday Herald should publish as a YES or SNP pamphlet. It’s a fecking newspaper
    They shout and scream about the rest of the media providing no balance – and then seem to want the Sunday Herald to provide no balance – or some of its staff writers who do not support independence to write pro independence copy.

    Grow up FFS and enjoy tomorrow’s edition. It’s front page is spectacular and so are the car stickers

  213. big jock says:

    Manandboy..Cyborgs don’t feel pain!

  214. big jock says:

    Hi Dave calm down man you sound like one of the unionist women in my work!lol

  215. Kev says:

    Totally O/T but is anyone here a Dr Who fan? Im not but the gf is and I thought id watch it as I do like Peter Capaldi. While I was trying my best to make sense of the bizarre plot, I couldn’t help but notice what could be construed as references to Independence.

    Not long into it and Capaldi must have mentioned his Scottishness a good 4-5 times, but on one occasion he quickly followed it by suggesting giving his eyebrows their “own independent state” (aye i know weird, you need to watch it).

    Then right at the end Capaldi and his female side-kick then muttered the phrase “you dont have a vote” to each other. Im sure there were more instances as it was on the whole very noticeable but I just cannae be bothered watchin it again to list them all!

  216. Tam Jardine says:

    Thepnr 10.15pm

    I’ve just worked it out – you’re a Yes Jedi. BTUKOKS better keep you away from their ‘big hitters’ or you’ll have big Jim or Alistair saying ‘these aren’t the droids we’re looking for’. Keep it up mate – thank God you are on our side!

    John King

    Glad you enjoyed the Leith Says Aye festival – was working on the walk but enjoyed the atmosphere when I could. Great to see TJenny, Michael McCabe, X-sticks, Debbie the Bruce and the delicious Elaine C Smith.

    The Walk was like a future where all no supporters had been wiped out by some kind of virus coz everyone was wearing yes badges. Everyone I saw anyway. It was a scene from JoLa’s nightmare.

    Great times we live in.

    Dal Riata

    Sorry to hear about your mates – sadly events, and history are leaving them behind. They want to keep the status quo with every fibre of their being. How many leaflets have they delivered? Or doors chapped? Were they wearing No Thanks BT UKOK badges? How many folk have they converted?

    They are lost, they and their ilk have not the stomach for the fight or the support network to push them into getting involved. The very ground beneath their feet is threatening to give way.

    Take heart friend – think how many signatures BT would have collected from the Electoral roll by this stage from their support. We will win.

    AS for the Astroturfers, (and our apologists for this deception)- would DC in drag as ordinary housewife Davina from Witney or if Ed was simply ordinary family man Edward from Doncaster appearing in a PPB -would that be deception?

    You nailed them again Stu.

  217. cearc says:

    nana smith,

    Yes, she seems to be a particularly nasty piece of work. IDS with hair.

  218. Grouse Beater says:

    Sunday Herald should publish as a YES or SNP pamphlet.

    It is not that black and white.

    It’s all in the presentation.

    If you believe in something you tackle its opposition from that standpoint. You are well informed, know your history, have your facts ready validated and verified.

    When a newspaper claims to be one thing yet publishes the opposite without analysis or critique side-by-side with one’s beliefs it’s very hard to believe the paper is being vigorous in its pursuit of truth.

    In the case of the Sunday Herald and your assertion I have never read of anybody demanding it become a mouthpeice for the SNP pamphlet.

  219. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Edward –

    My Mum is a Murphy. Her cousin, Leum (aka Willie) died a few weeks ago, in London, where he’d lived for approx 35 after getting fed-up living in Kilwinning, where he was the manager of the fruit & veg section of the Co-Op. He was a good age though – 83, I think.

    I saw him earlier this year, on what he knew would be his last trip to Scotland. He was visiting my Mum. We got talking about the referendum, the state of Labour etc. He was a lifelong Labour activist, knew a lot of the high-heid yins, got his photie taken with Blair (aye, I know…awkward) etc, but he was the real deal, went way back.

    On ‘getting pissed off with Labour in Ayrshire’, he told me this one – sometime in 1984/5, having completed a fundraiser for striking miners’ families, and arranged other events with NUM members down south (Borders or NW England) he happened to bump into one of his Labour branch colleagues as he was making his way home from Kilwinning station. He told the ‘comrade’ of this trip, the developments, and suggested that they be placed on the agenda for the next branch meeting, which was imminent.

    ‘Ach, Leum, you’re too late man. We already drew up the agenda last night in the club.’

    The ‘club’ was the Masonic in Kilwinning.

  220. ScottieDog says:

    Very simply if you’re debating Indy, just ask “ok what’s the uk economy based on?”
    You never get a quick answer…

  221. Fireproofjim says:

    Tam Jardine
    Great to hear of all the Yes badges on Leith Walk today.
    As has been mentioned before, it will be difficult to find anyone to admit to voting No after a Yes win. My Dad was in Germany in 1945 and was amazed to find that there had NEVER been any Nazis according to the locals. Just saying.

  222. Nana Smith says:

    Well they have really scared our elderly folk…

  223. tartanarse says:

    You will all be pleased to know that I have found unemployed Alan Grant a job as the for hire wee brother of Ricky Gervais.

    Also, off topic, has anyone seen the utterly pathetic sign for Rorys’ cairn? I dorve past it last week. It’s painted (very badly as if by a 5 year old) on a sheet of old blue tarpaulin which is attached to a bogey of haybales and is half hanging off and barely readable.

    Fair lifted my spirits.

    Also a big well done to the Dundonian who lives on the Kingsway(west) who has a massive wooden Yes Scotland looming large in their garden.

    BTW, I actually saw some Yes stuff in Larkhall.

  224. Marcia says:


    It think it is good that the Pension worry is being aired – the correct info needs to get to them and I think this will help.

    There is an UK wide Independence question in the regular UK wide poll for the Independent on Sunday.

    the Scottish sample has Yes in front.

  225. IcySpark says:

    Where in Larkhall did you see the Yes stuff tartanarse?

  226. tartanarse says:

    Can’t remember, don’t know it well enough to know the names of streets etc, but not far from the new traffice lights(that used to be a roundabout) that leads to Hamilton if you want to go on the 74 instead of straight on to Hamilton(if you know where I mean).

    I know, terrible explanation. Its beside a pub and a Spar.

  227. Nana Smith says:


    Thanks for that. There’s a lot of anger from Yessers tonight on the YESbecause twitter feed, aimed at McDougal and labour and rightly so for all the lies and scaremongering.

  228. Marcia says:

    re the Com Res poll – table 21 has the Independence question.

  229. big jock says:

    The bastards are targetting older people with the pension stuff.Because older people rely on traditional media for info.Unlike us they are only given the info the state wants to publish and cant look up info online.Its beginning to get like a mini version of North Korea here!

  230. IcySpark says:

    I know where you mean tartanarse. The pub is called The Ranch. Cheers for that. Will check it out tomorrow 🙂

  231. Kerryfisted says:

    Dal Riata
    Truly sorry to read about your experience with your bigoted ignorant former acquaintances at the football game but please don’t stereotype such behaviour with Ranger supporters and Masonic Lodge members. I am not suggesting for one minute that such do not exist in Freemasonry but I can assure you that Freemasonry is apolitical and the discussing of religious or political matters are not permitted in Lodges. I can also assure you that there are Freemasons out there working as hard as any other Yes activist if the number of Masonic members in our Yes Group is anything to go by. By the way Freemasonry is open to all Religions including Protestant Christians.

  232. Ian Brotherhood says:

    re ongoing Twitter stuff…

    Looks like ‘Sir’ Tom Devine may soon be facing calls to send back his gong.


    Anyone know other esteemed Yes-supporting Scots who should be made aware of this?

    Here’s hoping they say ‘Ye gied me it, I’m keepin’ it, an’ ah’m still voting Aye. Whit ye gonny dae then, eh?’

  233. big jock says:

    Regarding Capaldi in Doctor who.I was reliably informed that he is a Proud Scot..need I say more?

  234. indigo says:

    I thought Capaldi was firmly in the ‘I don’t live there any more, not my place to comment’ camp, same as David Tennant and Andy Murray, but that point of view gets twisted by msm

  235. Cindie says:

    The anger at Blair McDougall is because he tweeted and gloated about the front page of the Sunday post which states that 72% of pensioners are scared about their pensions after Indy – the man has no conscience and no shame

  236. crazycat says:

    @ Ian

    Isn’t a knighthood from the queen, who is Queen of Scots too, so it is entirely inappropriate to suggest giving it back?

    I don’t approve of gongs, so don’t really pay attention to the rules.

  237. Cindie says:

    Sorry nana, didn’t see your post re Mcdougall.

    @Dal Riata I think you dealt with a horrible situation so well, an awful position to be in. There is a lot of anger right now from no supporters, I think they are beginning to realise that they have lost. Derek Bateman has unleashed fury on Twitter for accusing Gardam of being a poor journalist, he’s fighting back with an even better blog post. This excellent blog: talks about the death of new labour. More than 1 million have signed the declaration, there are yes events going on all over the place. Yes Highland ran a fundraiser to put up yes signs in the Dingwall area. They made their target of £300 in less than three hours and have no doubled the target by request of people who want to donate more.

    Meanwhile, the lies and distortions are catching up with the media, and the no campaign, we are so nearly there and they are terrified

  238. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Anyone know where Murphy’s next gig is?

  239. SquareHaggis says:

    @Ian B


  240. Patrician says:

    @john king, 7:35pm
    “everyone was asking why Wings didnt have a stall?”

    You were there and others WOSSERS were there, so why wasn’t there a Wings stall there?

  241. Poppy says:

    Just found another one:) Perhaps we should make this into a contest:P

    Meet James Beagon, mild mannered playwright based in Edinburgh

    AKA James Beagon, Office Assistant at Office of Chris Davies MEP

  242. Robert Bryce says:

    I saw Rory’s wee cairn thing on the way home from Manchester last week. It looked pathetic.

  243. Robert Bryce says:

    They’re cropping up all over the shop. I saw an image tonight on twitter of ordinary Scots holding wee sheets of paper saying how they were proud Scots and voting no.

    One of them was the leader of our council in East Dunbartonshire – Rhonnda Geekie. They really do think we’re fucking stupid.

  244. Gary says:

    So, EVERYTHING they say is a lie? I say this at least once a day now..

  245. Onwards says:

    “..ordinary Scots holding wee sheets of paper saying how they were proud Scots and voting no.”

    I saw that too.
    Labours new poster:
    “I love Scotland that’s why I’m voting NO”

    It really is pathetic.

    How can you have the nerve to say you are a proud Scot, hold up a saltire etc .. yet not think we should have the powers and responsibilities of a normal country ?

    I would feel like a total phoney.

  246. This is me tokkin tae masell
    Cos naebody els is up at this oor
    A wis just thinking about stuff
    Sum peeple wur sayin nthat
    Own the thred like that is
    An it croassed ma mind that
    A betya a loatta naws wull
    Switch tae aye just cos
    They’ll feel left oot if it’s
    A big Yeh and therill be loadsuh
    Celabratin an stuff ….

    (Sorry, TL)

  247. CameronB Brodie says:


  248. steven Seagull says:


    In nae particular order.


    Chubster Kylie, will never have a chubby wi a burd.

    Connor—Mugshot fae “Criminal Minds” tv show. Hum the sinister tune in yer heid..Brrr!



    Alan–Puckered rectal pout, jist oot ae Murphs/dahlings bungholes.


  249. CameronB Brodie says:

    All I tried posting was a quote from a previous comment and a youtube link. I can’t see what would fail the filter, though the link did come from Vote No Border. Perhaps they are more tainted than at first sight. 🙂

  250. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry folks…

    Perhaps they are more tainted than at first sight. = Perhaps they are more tainted than they already appear.

  251. CameronB Brodie says:


    Does anyone remember Farah saying she feared a Yes vote would result the sort of ethnic and religious bloodshed that followed Indian partition? It was in the first video Vote No Borders used. That particular bit appears to have been edited out now. All I asked at the time, was “really”. 🙂

  252. Mealer says:

    The Ordinary People….Can a bunch of ordinary Scots stand up to the entire London establishment,its newspapers and its BBC …and win their independence?

  253. cearc says:


    Did you remember to take the http// bit off the you tube link?

    Not that I want to see it.

    I wonder if any no people watch their stuff. Despite their high-profile ads on the BBC, I am not sure that there were any ‘no’ comments in the first few days before they pulled them all.

  254. cearc says:



  255. Ken500 says:

    The most unpopular politicians in Britain lead the NO campaign.

    The most popular Politicans in Scotland lead the YES campaign.

    It is amazing the people who will vote YES.

  256. john king says:

    Liz says
    “@Dal Riata – that’s a shame you had a bad experience – you will never change the minds of people like that, we just have to hope there is not enough of them.”

    I disagree,
    I used to work away from home and spent a lot of time working in London and when I was in a group of people (Londoners) having a tea break, when I spoke they would all say youwot mate, say that in English willya, but when I would speak to one on his/her own they strangely understood every word I said,

    Get those guys one by one and I guarantee you you WILL persuade them,

    I spoke at an event in Edinburgh, and I aint a good public speaker, but with the confidence of what we have all learned here I put across a couple of very good points and even managed to amaze a woman sitting next to me who had difficulty getting her “a hate that alic sallmin” friends to listen, when I told her if thety are so desparate to see the back of him then vote for independence, bla bla bla, the looks of realisation and amazement in the room fair had me puffed up like a peacock a kin tell ye, I didnt go on to tell them it was rev stu’s line of reasoning 🙂
    The thing is someone said the more we speak to people the more confidence we get and that person was absolutely right!

  257. CameronB Brodie says:

    john king
    I’m finding involvement in the debate very empowering. It’s almost as if I’m playing a part in shaping Scotland’s future. Only a tiny bit perhaps, but I’m feeling braw for it all the same. 🙂

  258. john king says:

    “You were there and others WOSSERS were there, so why wasn’t there a Wings stall there?”

    Fair point Patrician, however I didnt even know about it until that morning and dont really have any material to create a stall with, but you do have a point, we cant wait for someone else to do something.

  259. john king says:

    I’ll tell you what though Patrician I really wish with hindsight that I had known about it, I would have gone to wherever it was required to get the Wee Blue Book, that was ALL people at every stall talked about,
    people really see this wee book as a game changer guys.

  260. Mealer says:

    I’m noticing more of the naysayers saying “I’m afraid I’m a NO”.Almost like they’re apologising in advance for letting their country down.Most of them will vote YES when it comes to the bit.

  261. goldenayr says:

    Finally figured out the difference between YES and no voters.

    Went down to the village yesterday with the bairn,so she could play in the park.There were lots of locals there and a few tourists.

    One of the new folk to the area was with some of the tourists(family?).Now they’re no voters,the rest of the locals are YES.

    The new folk and tourist kids were behaving like an invading army.Chucking sand out the sand pit at anyone who came near.Smashing one swing against another when someone was on it.Trying to make the roundabout go so fast that you could blend veg on it.The local bairns were mystified by their behaviour.All the while the new kids parents were completely oblivious to any problems while they discussed which wine they would buy for that night.

    Now I know kids are kids but that’s when it struck me.I don’t know about you guys but when I was a bairn it was unthinkable for me to go into someone elses house and behave deplorably.Do it in my own place but respect anothers home,never embarrass my parents in front of others etc.

    And this is the crux of the issue.No voters have no respect for themselves(too feart),for others(I’m alright Jack),for someone elses property or wellbeing(profit before parity).

    I’ve been thinking along these lines for awhile now but seeing those kids yesterday just crystallised it.

    No voters really are playground bullies,dragging others into do their dirty work for fear of reprisal/sanction,and only appreciating their efforts through the prism of anhedonia.

  262. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT, but fancy finding out what a bunch of British state minions think AS needs to do to fight back after his defeat in the first TV debate? I suggest you watch the Scot Goes Pop clip first, then consider how the events are being re-shaped.

  263. alexicon says:

    Mealer, tell them that they have to live with the stigma and they’re letting their future generations down.
    Plant seeds in their head.

  264. daodao says:

    Sorry to disillusion the YES campaign, but today’s Survation/Sunday Post poll of Scottish pensioners’ referendum voting intention has figures of:
    Yes – 33%
    No – 55%
    Undecided – 13%

    Excluding DKs, this is 37% YES, 63% NO. Pensioners are the group most likely to vote, and are more likely than others to do so by post. Given that postal voting is imminent, there is now virtually no time for the YES campaign (sadly holed below the waterline by A.Darling’s harping on about the £ in your pocket) to change their minds.

    I now expect NO to win by a country mile.

  265. galamcennalath says:

    cearc says:
    I wonder if any no people watch their stuff.

    Almost certainly not in such large numbers as YESers simply because I believe there are a lot fewer No people online.

    There are hardcore NOers commenting and trolling, yes, but I honestly believe large numbers are NO voters BECAUSE they haven’t been online reading both Yes and No sites.

    If actual ordinary people extensively explores both sides, they are likely to become a YESer!

  266. goldenayr says:


    Your postulation has no validity.

  267. Ken500 says:

    Yes is winning 10/1. There is a massive support for YES from former NO’s. It is amazing the support for YES.

    The Polls are manipulated by greedy Union supporting PR companies. Westminster are illegally funding Unionists PR companies with public money without a mandate. Westminster MP’s including Darling/Alexander should be held personally accountable for the money. They have cost Scotland £Billions.

  268. heedtracker says:

    @ daodao, so why did the refuse to make public the poll results from their own £50k survey 6 weeks ago, just before project fear went mental and Fozzie Carmicheal even lied about their silence too. Its against the rules said that deeply corrupt man.

    Yes is winning by a country mile everywhere and thats why there’s so much UKOK pretence and fraud.

  269. galamcennalath says:

    goldenayr says:
    And this is the crux of the issue.No voters have no respect for themselves(too feart),for others(I’m alright Jack),for someone elses property or wellbeing(profit before parity).

    I agree with you completely in describing that type of person. There are a lot of them around. No respect for anything, really. And almost certainly they will be No voters, and with it, probably Tory voters. I would class them hardcore NOs and beyond conversion.

    However there are many other No voters, still, who are NOs because of ignorance of the facts. They’ve soaked up the output of MSM, BBC/ITV, and ScoLab (mainly) politicians they still trust. They haven’t found out the facts for themselves. These people can be converted.

  270. daodao says:

    @ goldenayr


  271. Robert Peffers says:

    goldenayr says: 24 August, 2014 at 7:56 am:
    “Finally figured out the difference between YES and no voters, anhedonia.”

    So basically you see it as a case of Caledonia versus anhedonia? Could be correc, a sort of variation upon, “I’m a proud Scot – but.”

  272. goldenayr says:


    The soft “nos” fall into the first category,too feart.

  273. goldenayr says:


    You only offer one demographic as proof.

  274. goldenayr says:

    Robert Peffers

    “So basically you see it as a case of Caledonia versus anhedonia?”

    “Welcome to Anhedonia” they could put that sign up the airports in rUK.


  275. goldenayr says:

    Are the energy companies reaching the end of their tether with Westminster?

  276. daodao says:

    @ Goldenayr

    I merely provided the latest example of greater support for NO. NO support is also greater amongst women and all the polls show a lead for NO (varying from approximately 5% to the high teens).

    I suspect a lot of folk are too “frit” to take a risk, and the arguments for YES haven’t convinced enough people.

  277. heedtracker says:

    Another ordinary psychotic liar in action, because he’s so far ahead in the polls and thinks he can get away with telling Scotland this is real

  278. goldenayr says:


    Maybe where you live and amongst those who make up the polling companies clientele,readers and believers of the mail,telegraph and record.

  279. heedtracker says:

    @ daoda, it’s merely being pointed out to you that if this country mile win is actually coming, why are Labour in Scotland former PM’s giving speeches in which they say there’s only £3 billion oil tax income to pay for £40 billion expenditure?

    Assuming Brown is not psychotic, why is the former Prime Minister of TeamGB making such an extraordinary fool of himself and the Labour Party in Scotland like this?

  280. galamcennalath says:


    Beneath the surface, the polls show we are neck and neck or Yes is already ahead. BetterTogether know this.

    Why? Firstly those polls with plausable weighting algos constitently show that a swing of between 2-5% is needed.

    However, even the more believable polls have the flaw that they weight up people who have voted before. Turn outs have been ~50%, the turn out will be ~70-80%. The extra people who come out this time will be mainly demographic EDC, and given the wonderful efforts of organisations like Radical Independence they will vote Yes in large numbers. No traditional poll reflects this.

    The face to face canvassing by Radical Independence of a sample 18k people represents the largest poll of any. It is confined to the demographic where Yes is highest.

  281. heedtracker says:

    Nice double presentation of the sneering hypocrites that think they run our country. Signed Steve bell Scotland FM Alex Salmond squeezy doll, hilarious satire from not Steve Bell sadly but just as nasty. For a few weeks, More please sir, rancid hypocrite Graun:D

  282. Brian Mchugh says:

    daodao… sorry, but your conclusions are completely rubbish. You cherry picked a demographic and arrived to nonsence.

    You state that pensioners are the most likely to vote and you are partially correct. However, there was a 63.7% turnout in the 1979 refdm & 60.4% in 1997. This Indi refdm has a much higher profile than even these two examples, as the campaign is over 3 years running now. I wouldn’t be suprised to see a turnout of over 70%. …there is no precedent for such a high turnout.

    There is also over 4 million eligible voters next month, as compared with around 3.7million in the devo refdms.

    There is building evidence that the ‘lost million’ disenfranchised will turn out in large numbers… and if you have been disenfranchised by previous politics, then it would be difficult to square that with voting for more of the same!

  283. goldenayr says:


    Hover of the pie chart to get a better reflection of voting intentions.

  284. SquareHaggis says:

    @ Daodao

    Do people still buy, let alone read the Sunday Post?

    OMFG! Wir aw doumed.

  285. Albalha says:

    Hello folks,

    Last day of Referendum TV at Venue 41, another good line up;

    Derek Bateman, Angus Roxburgh, Chris Law of the fabulous Blue Goddess, folks from the soon to be opened Referendum Cafe in Glasgow City Centre and the inimitable Greg Moodie.

    If you can throw in a few bob to the fundraiser and/or share widely, anything much appreciated.

  286. Ivan McKee says:

    @ daodao

    Over 65 cross break in the last Survation poll was No 60%, Yes 31%.

    So this latest poll you are quoting represents a 3.5% swing to Yes.

    (The gap between Yes & No in that age group in the last Survation Poll was 16% higher than across the electorate as a whole).

  287. fred blogger says:

    the pensioner vote is the only hope that the no campaign has of winning.
    which is why the no camp have played on it, and made great play to try and panic postal voters.
    but the voter turn out will be extremely high, when compared to traditional polling, which is where this vote differs from all others.
    people are engaged in huge volumes.

    there is a bbc tv debate tomorrow.
    pensioners and people nr retirement age will be concerned about the NHS and security of pensions.
    they also know the value of the state organizing these things and collective payment through tax and NI.
    many were the 1st benefactors of this type of universal benefit and/or have close links to the social conditions that triggered the creation of the NHS and the welfare state.

    do not underestimate this age groups savvie or concerns.
    there are also over 1m yes pledges this speaks volumes in itself.
    WM will not be forgiven for the way that they have conducted themselves during indyref.
    the record of the indyref info must be the largest EVER, it will be discussed for yrs to come!

  288. caz-m says:

    Nana Smith

    On the pensioners getting frightened poll. Blair McDougall would have slept well last night, once he saw just how many pensioners were frightened by the latest scary story from Better Together.

    This is also fertile ground for STV. John Mackay and Bernard Ponsonby try to frighten the shit out of Scottish Pensioners every night of the week.

  289. goldenayr says:

    Last week,standing next to the car festooned in YES stickers and banners,just about every person that came up to me asking for window posters,signs for the garden were OAPs.And don’t forget,this is the generation that voted YES in ’79.

    Just an observation.

  290. caz-m says:

    Wee Johan says that she is at War with her opponents. Does she not realise that her opponents are mostly Scottish Labour voters.

  291. goldenayr says:

    Looks like we might be beaten to the first YES win in a ref this year.

  292. goldenayr says:


    Isn’t it telling how many Labour voters actually follow her and comment?

  293. galamcennalath says:

    Scaring pensioners … yes, that would seem BT’s last ditch effort.

    They don’t have boots on the ground and never will. similarly they have lost the online space. So they have to use MSM and broadcast media. BT can only now target people who aren’t exploring the internet for information and still believe what they see/hear on the media. Unfortunately that still covers a lot of people, pensioners in particular, but not exclusively.

  294. fred blogger says:

    there are a lot of over 60’s who are extremely angry with WM because of what has been recently done to pensions (PGC) and the pension age escalator.

  295. john j says:

    The more you lift the No campaign’s dung heap the more it stinks.

  296. galamcennalath says:

    A vote for No is not a vote for no change. It is not a vote for “Business as Usual” You have been warned.

    Indeed. Vote NO for a rough time!

  297. gerry parker says:

    “They don’t have boots on the ground”

    That’s true. At Airdrie yesterday there were 3 or 4 UKOK ers around, mostly councillors or their hangers on. Contrast the Yes and Wingers presence. Easily 15 activists ready and willing to get the Yes message out.
    Yes stall in Coatbridge well turned out with badges literature and people willing to have face to face discussions.

    24 days to go.

  298. les Wilson says:

    Let us not forget folks propaganda such as we are subject to no matter what the subject is designed to do one thing only.

    That is to steal votes for their purpose.



  299. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mealer says: 24 August, 2014 at 7:04 am:

    “I’m noticing more of the naysayers saying “I’m afraid I’m a NO”.Almost like they’re apologising”

    That’s your chance to immediately wrong foot them with, “Don’t apologise – everyone’s entitled to their views”. Then you ask them for their reasons for wanting to vote that way and shoot them down one by one. You will find they really have no valid arguments as EVERY point they will attempt to put froward is based upon lies and distortions. Just make sure you have your WBB at the ready, though.(and a spare for your newest convert).

    The point I’m making is that if you can engage them in calm debate you really can win them over. Note their leadership invariably adopt an aggressive and shouty/pointy stance in all debate from the Holyrood chamber to the doorsteps. Any member of a school debating society can identify that with an opponent who has a weak or absent case.

  300. KT says:

    This is why we need more public showings and support for Yes. We need to show the world (and to genuine ordinary citizens) that we are here. We need more public showings – car stickers, window posters, badges, FUN stuff etc.

    I’ve deluged my family and friends with the NO doom & gloom (lies, bias & bullshit), but my friend’s son only took interest when he saw the long list of ‘#YesBecause’ postings from folk that I’d copy & pasted – he suddenly wanted to know more about ‘the party’ that he might be missing. We also need to be FUN as well as determined and earnest.
    YES is a happy, fun thing to be!

  301. Grouse Beater says:

    The entire No’s campaign amounts to advising the population to do nothing. Crisis? What crisis?

    They say:

    ‘Life is good, you have the best of both worlds.’

    In that one statement they admit there are two countries.

    At the same time they deliberately mislead by suggesting nothing needs altered for the better. We are equals. We enjoy wealth and happiness equally. The population know that to be untrue. Consequently, we do not want to carry on as before.

    We want, demand change for the better.

    We want to govern our own affairs while keeping strong links with our neighbour. That’s truly having the best of both worlds.

  302. gerry parker says:

    @ KT.
    Yes convoy in Cumbernauld today 3pm – 5pm
    Just behind the Tryst.
    Lotsa yes flags on show.
    Wingers presence.

  303. macart763m says:


    So you support the targeting and frightening of pensioners by the likes of Darling, Brown and Murphy?

    This constitutes an opportunity to crow for you? Just numbers, a demographic and a cunning strategy eh?


  304. caz-m says:

    Dundee is now officially known as “YES CITY”. (Well Done ALL Dundonians).

    Daily Record:

    “IF it was down to posters and saltires, the returning officer would be weighing the votes for independence in Dundee.”

    Don’t worry Dundee, the rest of Scotland isn’t too far behind you.

  305. scottish_skier says:

    On that modestly sized (170) subset from Comres

    How favourable or unfavourable are you towards each of the following?

    Independence for Scotland

    45% Favourable
    36% Unfavourable
    9% Neither
    11% DK

    Now that’s not the Y/N question, but might be an indicator of leanings. It’s also a subset so normal caveats apply.

    36% unfavourable is not far from long term historical No values too.

    What might make it less open to question is that we also have Westminster VI:

    20% Con
    29% Lab
    6% Lib
    37% SNP

    With SNP on 3% of the national Total.

    So, not very SNP at all (they’ve been getting into the 40’s and 4% of the national total quite regularly) and Tories a tad on the high side. Certainly lower than running averages for the SNP.

    And whether people are favourable to Alex Salmond:

    36% Favourable
    40% Unfavourable

    Which is the opposite of Scotland-wide polls and suggests our small Scottish sample isn’t very SNP / Salmond friendly.

  306. scottish_skier says:

    On that Survation poll of the over 65’s. A No? Wow – ground-breaking.

    So that was women (who are being rather polite), then the over 65’s.

    What next, homes in close proximity to Ibrox?

  307. heedtracker says:

    The do nothing option credibly? sold here by Graun”s Mackenna and his ordinary people empty grot
    I never heard any family fall out over the ref but this one peice of project fearing from the Graun alone, sums up the UK. A whole Guardian online news site, housands of articles, comments etc and nothing whatsoever about Scotland except nice hols, great festival, and huge political shits all over Scottish democracy, with all the usual BTL sneering malice pouring out of places like Glasgow uni law dept:D

    The day a shill like MacKenna types out just out a few of the incredible opportunities and possibilities that await Scotland running Scotland in a UKOK teamGB national newspaper, well it’s never going to happen but the future of Scotland as a scrounger region stuck in this farce of a union ruled forever and ever by the Labour Party is all we get now.

  308. Marcia says:

    Re the pensioners worries, those of you who still have your parents or grandparents can do is talk to them and reassure them. Get on the phone. Speak to your elderly neighbours. That is all they need, give them the correct information rather than them listening to or reading scare stories.

  309. Robert Peffers says:

    goldenayr says: 24 August, 2014 at 8:33 am:

    “You only offer one demographic as proof”

    You will note, goldenayr, that, daodao, has adopted the attitude of his/her leader McDougal who is being hammered on tweeter for crowing over the success of NO to implant abject fear in the Pensioners by telling lies.

    In spite of the truth being that the DWP have publicly stated the UK will continue to pay pensions as the pensioners have contributed to the system until they became pensioners and thus have a legal contract to be paid. For heaven’s sake my sister in Australia gets her both her UK Government & UK Private works pension in Australia.

    I hope daodao remains a proud Scot after YES wins and the fears he/she has attempted to frighten these people with are exposed as the lies they are.

    Come on now, daodao, answer this question – Have, or have not, the DWP guaranteed the pensions of Scots post independence?

    ( I do not really expect him/her to answer. They never do.

  310. KT says:

    @gerry parker

    Excellent – I’ll be there. I have YES car magnets on my Transit van + other stuff from Yes shop.

    Let’s be seen to be the choice of good, happy and cheery.
    I want to say ‘HAPPY NEW YEAR’ every bloody day of the week!

  311. Calgacus says:

    The daodao that can be named is not the true daodao, it is a dodo

  312. caz-m says:


    Union Jack McConnell tells us that the Barnet Formula WILL be scrapped after a NO Vote.

    He also says that we can look forward to tax rises much higher than rUK, to help fund projects in Scotland.

    What’s not to like about voting NO. Immediate tax rises needed to pay for our public services, bring it on Jack.

  313. Calgacus says:

    My wife is a pensioner and she is English but guess what she is a YES so GIRFUY daodao, yir tea is oot

  314. To Nana Smith – I couldn’t vote for yes on you poll because I’m not on facebook.


  315. Brian Mchugh says:

    NNS just posted a wee video up on the Clare Ridge…

  316. Flooplepoop says:

    Have a go if you haven’t already

  317. Brian Mchugh says:

    Ps me too James… YES

  318. Marcia says:

    and me.

  319. ScotsRenewables says:

    I see Scotland’s only YES leaning bridge has had another visit from the YES fairies . . .

  320. mr thms says:

    # Brian McHugh

    It was reported in The Guardian (13/10/2011).

    “Cameron said he was delighted to give BP the go-ahead for the next phase of development of the huge Clair Ridge field, 50 miles from Shetland, which is not in deep water. He said it was “great news for Aberdeen and the country and provides a massive boost for jobs and growth”.”


    “Cameron said: “We live in a very dangerous and difficult world. We do not want to be over-reliant on energy supplies from difficult parts of the world, from unstable parts of the world. And it is a huge national advantage having such a brilliant oil and gas industry here in Aberdeen and here in the North Sea.

    “We should treasure that and want to see it expand, want to see it grow, want to see it be part of a good and diversified energy industry in the UK.””

  321. galamcennalath says:

    Flooplepoop says:
    “Have a go if you haven’t already”

    YES: 92%
    NO: 8%
    from Scottish post codes

    What online polls like this prove is the ratio of online Yes supporters versus No supporters!

  322. caz-m says:

    Gerry Parker
    “Yes convoy in Cumbernauld today 3pm – 5pm
    Just behind the Tryst”

    I hope there is a huge turn out at Cumbernauld.

    Gerry you have got to get the Wings banner up to the huge Wings statue at Cumbernauld called,

    “The Angel of the Nauld” and get a few pics taken.

  323. gerry parker says:

    Caz – M.
    Aye, I was thinking of that Caz, or the Kelpies, or the Falkirk Wheel. They’re all close.

    Will post photo’s later.

  324. Was it only a week ago when 200 x luvvies told us how much they luvved Scots – only to be followed by the dire consequences their Sponsors promised to visit upon an Independent Scotland.

    “Luvvies” Sponsors being this unelected ConDem Govt, SLABscabs and Bigots Together.
    What a wonderful and inspiring crew with which to view the future of an Independent Scotland.

    Presumably the Luvvies will expunge the Embra Festival and Scottish venues from their ticketing sales and any curdies they can exploit from dim-witted Scots.?

    With only days left before the Scottish Electorate Decides to embrace Independence, be forewarned, WHEN SLAB scabs begin their triple-salkos in their insane attempts to turn the clock back to a socialism SLAB has long abandoned.

    “Freedom” under International Socialism for every country on the planet – EXCEPT SCOTLAND.?

    I look forward to May 2015 Westminster General Election when Scottish Labour (SLAB),Ukip,ConDems etc are barred from participating by HOLYROOD via Early Emergency Legislation in October 2014.
    We can live in hope.

    Will Lantern Jaw Jim jump norff or saaff.
    Will Loopy Lamontable Leap Left ( or affa stage ) for latern jaw jim murphy.
    SLAB scabs soap opera starts on Sept 20th – after defeat.

  325. Robert Peffers says:

    @daodao says: 24 August, 2014 at 8:53 am:

    “I merely provided the latest example of greater support for NO. NO support is also greater amongst women and all the polls show a lead for NO (varying from approximately 5% to the high teens).”

    Well, daodao, no you do not. You only claim the result of, Opinion Polls conducted by often biased private companies who publish these polls on a for profit basis.

    As recent doorstep surveys have shown there is a vast section of the electorate that have not, (indeed cannot), be surveyed by the methods available to the pollsters. Namely the poorer, younger and often the more elderly people of Scotland. Here’s why. Random called telephone surveys cannot access those who do not/have not a land line telephone connection. These people tend to use pay-as-you-go mobile phones. Then stop-and-ask survey is almost always done on high streets and not in poor, run down sprawling housing estates. Same applies to on-line surveys where the poorer, older and younger people with scarce resources do not go.

    Have a wee look at the recent doorstep surveys being done by the RIC mass Scottish survey. Now note that the private company surveys poll just over 1,000 people and then, weight their results. The RIC surveys over 5,000 in poorer areas and apply no weighting. The results are mirror images of each other.

    So, daodao, explain that away? Note also that the last Holyrood election was being touted as a Labour win right up until three days before the event. It resulted in an SNP landslide victory. So, daodao, spare us the usual bleating and lies – you’ve been rumbled long ago. Have you placed any bets upon your belief that NO are going to win?

  326. Marcia says:

    Wise words from Crawford Beveridge in an interview with Derek Bateman;

  327. Joe Swan says:

    @gerry parker

    Kirkintiiloch Canal festival is on today (12.00 till 17.00) and Yes activists have a stall.

    The town and the festival are usually very busy and a drive by would be great to see.

    We need help here. Some of us have a Tory/Labour coalition council (to keep the SNP out) and a Lib Dem MP! FFS.

    Anyway good luck today in Cumbernauld.

  328. caz-m says:

    Flooplepoop 10.42am

    UK poll.

    I have just completed the poll.

    92% YES.

  329. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Gerry Parker at 10.10. Please dis regard tose times 3pm to 5pm.ITS 1PM TO 3PM THEREAFTER THE CONVOY ROUND CUMBERNAULD. PLEASE SHARE THIS MESSAGE TO ALL, THANKS.

    Cant get Gerry just now will via contact him via text mess.

  330. crisiscult says:

    re pensioners, I’ve got a couple of hilarious (well,not really) anecdotes of pensioner voting intentions and motivations. They’d be worrying if it weren’t for the fact you can find nutty logic in all age groups. The more general point, though is that there is something in common with both of these anecdotes – an idea of what Britain represents, perhaps different from anyone under 60 (which accounts for substantial more votes of course)

    1. My Dad’s cousin, 83, who has lived in Germany for 50 years, but now spends 6 months of the year in Scotland and can vote.

    Voting no because … Alex Salmond is a liar. He has divided the country, scot against scot. You can’t see No signs in cars and windows because Yes people will attack them. It’s like it was when the Nazis got into power in the 30s. We fought two world wars together. Robert the Bruce is ancient history. Scots have always been divided and argued with each other.

    ‘Excuse me Aunty, but have you been following the debate in the German media?’
    ‘No, I read the British newspapers’
    ‘Which ones’
    ‘The Daily Mail’

    2. My mum, 79.
    ‘Oh, I don’t know, I keep changing my mind. All my friends (in their 70s) are against.’
    ‘Why is that mum?’
    ‘Well, the oil is almost finished, we won’t be able to afford to pay our pensions, their families are mostly employed by companies that will move to England if it’s a yes vote, and we’ll use the pound but have to lose our banking industry because we’ll be in deficit (I thought that point was a bit more sophisticated!).’
    ‘OK, well here’s the wee blue book and some responses to those points your friends made …’
    ‘Yes, but also I heard some woman from the Green party saying we’d get rid of the Royal Family. We need them. They make us something’

    So, there you have it. How would you deal with people with such understanding?

  331. caz-m says:

    Gerry Parker,

    The Kelpies would make a brilliant background for the Wings Banner.

    “Kelpies for YES”

    Worldwide publicity for Wings and the YES Campaign.

  332. Marcia says:

    A message from Londoners to Scotland to vote Yes.

  333. farrochie says:

    No hiding place
    when Rev. Stuart Campbell
    is on the case.

  334. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    Surely these people prentending to be ordinary voters while working to a hidden agenda must in their quieter moments cringe with shame. Decieving your people for personal gain is a shameful practice.

  335. Grouse Beater says:

    Caz-M: The Kelpies would make a brilliant background

    I’m hoping, praying, that a revitalised Scotland will, at long last, raise its standards when it comes to modern sculpture in public places.

  336. On seeing the Sunday Post front page I got so angry. I went into the garden to knock ten bells out of the tree stumps. Luckily I had expended all my anger when a BT woman going round the doors gave me a BT propaganda leaflet. After telling her politely never to darken my door again nor put propaganda through my door, I found I had calmed dow to some reasonable thought.
    This kind of lies in the Sunday Post could be a godsend to YES as it’s easily debunked. Did not Steve Webb a DWP minister openly say in the media weeks if not months ago that pensions in an Independent Scotland would be unaffected as we had paid our NI.
    Lies like this are a hell of a gamble for the BT mob.

  337. goldenayr says:


    It’s happening.

    Our neighbours will soon wake up to the hegemony of Westminster.What then for their precious establishment?

  338. Joe Swan says:


    Could the Rev not produce a smaller book with “Five things Alecsammin hasn’t done for me” as the title.

    Inside it could have a few big headlines from the Daily Maul and underneath links to a couple of relevant sites with “Read the full story here” headings.

    At the back it could list the things Alexsammin hasn’t done like;

    1. He hasn’t cut my grass in ages.

    2. He never comes to visit.

    3. His last pancake recipe was rubbish etc.

    We could call it the “Wee Blue(rinse) Book”.

  339. My mate from Liverpool has said to me in the past that if English voters got the vote they would vote to get rid of Scotland as people down there are fed up subsidising us.
    So I got to think. Imagine if the rUK was given the vote. How the Goverments campaigns would run north and south of the border?

    What about we try to come up with campaign tactics in both places their pitch to the voters

    BT campaign in Scotland – £1200 more is spent per person in Scotland.

    rUK Keep Scotland campaign – There is £1700 more taxes and income generated per person from Scotland.

    to Scotland – North sea oil is running out only 15bn barrels left

    To rUK – there is still 24 bn barrels left in the north sea, and huge new fields like clair ridge to be started.

    What else would be different to both places?

  340. Derek M says:

    thanks for the great vid Marcia i always new there were good intelligent people in London who recognize the disaster westminster is 🙂
    Maybe after all the dust has settled and we have our independence we could help those good people out cause you know they get lied to just as much as we do “ahem” a Wings over England site maybe lol food for thought Stu cause god knows they could use your help.



    SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE: State pensions would still paid after independence a UK minister has told MPs despite concerns raised by the Better Together campaign.
    Giving evidence to the Scottish Affairs Select Committee Lib Dem pensions minister Steve Webb said that anybody who had paid UK national insurance would be entitled to their state pension whatever the outcome of the referendum.
    He said: “Citizenship is irrelevant. It is what you have put into the UK National Insurance system prior to separation, answer 35 years, that builds up to a continued UK pension under continuing UK rules, the question is who is paying for it, but they are entitled to that money.”
    The intervention contradicts concerns raised by former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling, the leader of the Better Together campaign.
    In an article last month he wrote: “On the subject of pensions, we know the whole of the UK stands behind the State pension, but what happens with separation? Nobody knows – certainly not the Scottish Government.”
    The Scottish Government said Mr Webb’s admission supported assurances they had received about the state pension.
    A spokesman for SNP Finance Secretary John Swinney: “This is confirmation from a UK minister that people’s pensions will be entirely secure following a Yes vote in the referendum. Steve Webb’s comments merely back up what the DWP has already confirmed in writing – and they are a welcome change from the scaremongering of many of his Westminster colleagues.
    “Pensions will be paid on time and in full in an independent Scotland, while independence will also mean all decisions on pensions and welfare will be taken here, giving us the chance to review Westminster’s plans to increase the state retirement age.”


    1. How to claim
    You can claim your State Pension abroad.
    You should be sent a claim form 4 months before you reach your State Pension age.
    Contact the International Pension Centre (IPC) if you haven’t received a letter 3 months before you reach State Pension age.
    Check you’re eligible for a State Pension before you contact the IPC.
    The State Pension is changing. You’ll need to check the eligibility for the new State Pension if you’re:
    ? a man born on or after 6 April 1951
    ? a woman born on or after 6 April 1953
    You need to check the eligibility for the basic State Pension and Additional State Pension if you are born before these dates.
    You can contact the IPC by email or phone, or fill in the international claim form. You’ll need the international bank account number (IBAN) and bank identification code (BIC) numbers for your overseas account.
    International Pension Centre? ?Telephone: +44 (0)191 218 7777?Textphone: +44 (0)191 218 7280?Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm ?Find out about call charges
    The Pension Service 11 ?Mail Handling Site A ?Wolverhampton ?WV98 1LW ?United Kingdom
    You’ve worked in the UK and abroad
    To claim your State Pension if you’ve worked in the UK and abroad, send the international claim form to the IPC.
    You’ve only worked, lived or are working abroad
    You must claim the State Pension through the relevant authority of the country you’re in if you currently live and have worked in:
    Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden or Switzerland.
    Contact the IPC if you’ve worked or lived in a country not listed above.
    You’re thinking of moving abroad
    Contact the IPC for advice on how your pension might be affected if you’ve already retired and are thinking of moving abroad.
    Change in your situation
    Tell the IPC if you change any personal details, eg your address or bank account details.
    You can only report these changes by telephone or in writing – don’t send changes by email.
    Getting a life certificate
    A ‘life certificate’ is a form the Department for Work and Pensions might send you to check you’re still eligible for the State Pension.
    If you get sent a life certificate, you’ll need to get it signed by a witness and send it back, as instructed on the form. Your payments may be suspended if you don’t send it back.
    Check the list of people who can witness a life certificate. This is now the same as the list of people who can ‘countersign’ a passport photo – though they don’t need to live in the UK, or have a passport from a specific country.
    Returning to the UK
    Call the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) Residency Helpline if you’re going to return to the UK after living or retiring abroad.
    HMRC Residency helpline?Telephone: 0300 200 3300 ?From outside the UK: +44 151 210 2222?Find out about call charges
    Contact the Pension Service if you’ve been living abroad and you’re returning to the UK to retire. You’ll need to give them your return date and contact details, both abroad and in the UK.

  342. Reassure the pensioners.


  343. HandandShrimp says:

    I just did that poll thing at the Org site. Interesting results from around the UK and the EU. However, it would be interesting to see the number of votes cast in each area.

  344. daodao says:

    @ Robert Peffers & others

    I only expressed my opinion re the likely outcome of the vote, not support for one side or the other; that would be inappropriate as I don’t live in Scotland.

    I merely drew attention to recent poll findings, highlighting sections of the electorate where support for NO appears to be greatest. Others may disagree, but IMO, polls are more reliable than canvass returns from partisan organisations.

    I also pointed out that time appears to be running out for the YES campaign to persuade folk not to be frightened of voting YES. The YES campaign also needs to emphasize that a NO vote is not a vote for the status quo, as there will be adverse consequences to Scotland of failing to grasp the historic opportunity available on 18/9/14.

    For the record, I did vote yes on 18/9 (1997), in Wales.

  345. Robert Peffers says:

    @crisiscult says: 24 August, 2014 at 11:24 am:
    “So, there you have it.”

    Well no, crisiscult, “we don’t have it”. I’m almost into that age group and I’ve been fighting for Scottish independence since 1946.

    So how about you start to treat your elderly family members with a little more respect and consider these wee facts. If you had spent a bit more time with them since they stopped shoving a tit, (dummy or otherwise), into your gub and also stopped cleaning the piss & shite of your arse, they may have been better informed now. Then, when you became a little more adult, you might now be treating them like the intelligent and sentient human beings they probably are.

    Thus they may not now be in quite so ignorant a frame of mind. Note – Ignorance means NOT KNOWING, it does not mean being stupid or unintelligent. So where were you when your closest family were being left in ignorance? Remember, it may not yet be too late to correct your neglect.

  346. crazycat says:

    There is a poster using the name daodao on UK Polling Report. He/she is Welsh, but lives in the north-west of England (or possibly vice versa; I don’t pay that much attention).

    This may be the same person as the one using that name here (the interest in polls supports that).

  347. crazycat says:

    Aha! I see I’ve been pre-empted while composing my now-pointless post. Happens a lot.

  348. crisiscult says:

    @Joe Swan – nice idea. Crowdfunding?

    @Robert Peffers
    Sorry you’re upset (or appear to be). You are assuming I don’t have a good relationship with my family members; a post on a forum such as this doesn’t really give a great insight into the lives of others. For comic effect I did a send up of people I know. That being offensive to you when you don’t know the people concerned, is unfortunate but the sometimes unintended effect of internet style communication and humour. My mum, Aunt and I had a laugh about it yesterday. When my children are having a laugh about my own ideas when I’m in my 70s, I’ll hopefully have the spaciousness and humour to take it on the chin like my own mum and aunt did yesterday.

  349. crisiscult says:

    ps, ironically I’ve got piss & shite to clean up now. Son is 15 months.

  350. Robert Peffers says:

    I am amazed at the people on WoS who report that their own family members are NO voters. Now there are always going to be those who set their minds against any form of political activity but this one is a whole different ball game. It is thus, in spite of the claims of the Naysayers, a true cross-party movement. The campaigns are thus not too hard to cancel out the party political claims and thus return any debate back to where it belongs – a cross-party campaign for or against independence.

    So in any debate first remove the party political aims and then concentrate upon the merits or demerits of independence and that brings the debate down to a simple matter of proving who are telling lies and who are telling the truths. That done we are left with the actual most important things of all – the grey areas. So folks which side has the best of those grey areas and what are they?

  351. crisiscult says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Maybe I’m not as persuasive as you but I know several people whose attitude is pretty much irreversible (not so much my mum, as she floats yes and no). If you’ve got an understanding of a country/nation/state as being Britain, and you suggest ‘breaking it up’ (not my phrase of course), you know that with some people there would never be enough to persuade them. Similar to a Northern Irish colleague of mine who will always find something to cast a tiny doubt over ‘the SNP/nationalist…’ claims. Why? Because his identity is built from his nationality, religion, history, and combination of these three. He’ll do anything to keep it.

  352. Roddy Scott says:

    Rev Stu,

    you have outdone yourself this time!

    There is nothing worse than an exposé to have them scurrying back under the dank, dark, moist stones that they slithered and crawled out from under in the first place.

    ‘The Ordinary People’ sounds more like something that you would here from some English upper class afternoon tea encounter in the clubs of Conservatism.

    Chinless, nose in the air, Tory encumbent, “And what of the ‘ordinary people’ Hmmm? Can we find enough of them to back the Better Together campaign, Nigel? Get some boots on the ground amongst those grass root types, what?”

    Equally chinless, nose in the air, Tory encumbent with florid face from too many G&Ts. “I’m afraid, old man, that there is not enough of them going around these days. They seem to have taken some umbrage in regards to the latest round of cuts in the public sector and the NHS.”

    Chinless 1 – “Well I suppose that we had better have some of those sycophantic hangers on rounded up and stuck in front of a camera, even some of those Labour chappies would do, and we can have them read from one of those autocue things. Should be enough to keep the herds of Scotsmen at bay I would think.”

    Chinless 2 – “Damned good idea indeed, old boy. I’ll have one of my office jumiors see to it this afternooon.”

    Yeah! Ordinary people my arse!

    They wouldn’t know what ordinary meant if they couldn’t find it in the delicatessant section of Harrods!

  353. Robert Peffers says:

    @crisiscult says: 24 August, 2014 at 12:59 pm:

    “Sorry you’re upset (or appear to be).”

    I’m neither upset not offended.

    “You are assuming I don’t have a good relationship with my family members”.

    I’m assuming nothing of the sort as I made no comment about your relationships. I commented upon your time spent within those relationships discussing serious matters or indeed in making sure close family are not isolated from the wider World including modern communications. If a close family member is computer illiterate then a few quid for a second hand unit and a few spare hours is well worth the effort. It’s not too hard to learn how to use the internet and prevents the potential silver surfer from isolation.

    this doesn’t really give a great insight into the lives of others. For comic effect I did a send up of people I know. Aye! and thereby hangs the tale. In my family I’m the one who is the most litterate on modern technology having been working at the cutting edge most of my life.

    Believe me I’ve sat down with both younger and older people, family, friends and total strangers and introduced them to the wonders of technology. I’ve seen tears of joy coursing down elderly peoples faces as they sat and spoke with a family member on the other side of the World that they though to never have a real conversation with ever again.

    We are, after all, not talking about teaching them electronics. Just how to operate modern appliances. I say again, if the family member is out of touch in any way, then it’s past time you did something about it. One of the most common complaints from both disabled and elderly people in Scotland today is being alone and out of touch.

  354. Onwards says:

    I know quite a few folks whose identity is mainly English or British, but are still voting YES.

    Partly because they don’t see independence as a threat to their identity. Westminster political rule isn’t what makes them British. It is more about culture, language, family.

    But it’s mainly because they want a more balanced country, and better prospects for the area in which they live.

    Everyone can see that Westminster panders to London and the South.

    That is where all the power and wealth and investment goes.
    The most prosperous areas with the highest life expectancy.

    Why should people in Scotland put up with subsidising that?
    It’s time to put ourselves first for once.

  355. Edward says:

    I see Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have tone the ALS Ice bucket challenge

  356. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    Might I suggest you may be making the error of assuming others share your own abilities?

  357. K1 says:

    Robert I get your point regarding persuading family members, but you may be basing this on a general understanding of what you consider ‘ideal’ family dynamics to be.

    Unlike crisiscult, there is no laughing it off with my mum, she is self righteous, determined mind made up…tbf it was ever thus, her world view is formed by factors that are and have never been in harmony with my own. The referendum process merely throws these dynamics into the light I feel.

    There is such a thing as willful ingorance.

  358. K1 says:

    Oh…my mother is computer literate, one of the first people I knew to have one way back when. All the technology in the world won’t increase awarenes or dispel ignorance…not because of lack of skill, simply because not everyone searches for the same information nor wants it.

  359. heedtracker says:

    Back to the UK 2018, but I don’t want to pay for my prescriptions, I don’t want to £50 grand for my degree, HND, I don’t want to leave the EU, I don’t want to buy health insurance, why is that rich bloke getting his op a year before me, I don’t want another war in the Middle East, I don’ want to pay even more taxes, why is the natioanal debt now £2.5 trillion, Alistair darling and Gordon Brown said the oil would all be gone by now, I can’t find work, why can’t I claim the dole, why is my foodbank always asking for more and more donations, why don’t the pretendy parliamnent do sonething, I voted Yes, I really did, it wasn’t me, BetterTogether Bliar. MacDougal said we should punch above our weight, why are my kids leaving school for £5 an hour in Asda, if theyre lucky, .

  360. crisiscult says:


    That’s a good point. I watched a video of Chomsky a while back and it really resonated with me in relation to the independence debate. You know everyone now thinks they are economists or lawyers, but as Chomsky says, you need the ‘framework’ or as I might say, the ‘disciplinary foundations’. Can’t find the video but found the quote:

    “Like most technology, the internet has mixed effects. It’s a neutral instrument. Technology can be used to liberate or enslave. A hammer doesn’t care whether its used by a torturer or a carpenter, and the internet is kind of like that. I mean its very valuable, I use it all the time and I am sure you do. It gives you enormous access to things you’re looking for but its kind of like the Library of Congress. You can go into the Library of Congress and find information on just about anything, but that doesn’t do you much good unless you know what you are looking for.

    If you want to become a biologist, it doesn’t help to go into the Harvard biology library and all the information is there for you. You have to know what to look for and the internet is the same, just magnified. We have this huge, massive information, but what is it that matters? What doesn’t matter? What makes sense, what doesn’t make sense? You have to have a framework for understanding and of interpretation in order to make use of the information.”

  361. Muscleguy says:

    @Robert Peffers

    I was out canvassing for RIC yesterday with a paid up member of the Labour party of 25 years standing. A genuine member of Labour for Indy too. She says she will resign her membership on the 19th. She has canvassed for Labour in the past (pre Blair’s illegal wars) but not stood for office or been an officeholder. Such people do exist, though party participation is becoming so small now it is probably hard to be a member without being some sort of officeholder in an all hands to the pumps kind of way.

    I’m hoping we can reinvigorate politics after a Yes vote and get more people joining political parties without a wish to gain office and advantage.

  362. Paula Rose says:

    I think people who are prepared to create a decent society for their folk are extraordinary, as someone born in England – that is why I chose to make Scotland my home.

  363. neil allan says:

    Rather an old post now but yesterday evening Croopenstein you asked me one positive case for the Union and why we are better together. In 2005 the G8 pledged that they would devote 0.7% of their GDP to overseas development. Not one of them did it till 2013. Guess which did? Was it maybe Canada, or China, or Russia? No, it was the poor old “decadent” UK, enabling us to help refugees in Iraq, and throughout the Middle East. Why don’t you take off your pantomime blinkers; Westminster is no more “wicked” than the next regime. Incidentally I have never voted Tory.

  364. SquareHaggis says:

    Yesterday should have been commemorated.

  365. tartanfever says:

    Neil Allan,

    You do realise we’re all laughing our heads off at your reply. So the UK gave a little more help to a country that it helped to completely decimate in the first place.

    You do see the utter hypocrisy in what you’ve just said.

    You might also want to take a look at this article from, of all places The Telegraph, that claims:

    ‘Miserly’ Scots more generous than the English’

    Close the door on the way out.

  366. call me dave says:


    Thanks You saved me the trouble, back to live streaming event.

  367. call me dave says:

    Might as well post it now the event has finished.

    Once independent and able to carry out a promise I have no doubt that Scotland will do as well if not better than the rUK.

  368. gerry parker says:

    Well,today we did Cumbernauld, then Falkirk, then to the Kelpies.

    Many thanks to all the Wingers who turned up to Support Cumbernauld’s efforts.

    Patrician will be posting photo’s of this, and the Airdrie event soon.

  369. Grouse Beater says:

    Neil Allan: it was the poor old “decadent” UK, enabling us to help refugees in Iraq, and throughout the Middle East.

    Is this the same refugees we caused by our invasion of Iraq? How many thousands now in Jordan? How many displaced permanently?

    Are you so stupid you actually think a few pounds to help a few refugees balances billions spent in killing and maiming their people?

  370. Camz says:

    Greedy, lying shits.

  371. Derek Morrison says:

    I was surprised to see that it looks like Leanne from Kilmarnock is being followed by Downing Street David Cameron on Facebook

  372. David says:

    Bloody hell! Department of Where are they now:
    Ordinary Sir Ed Mountain is now a Tory list MSP.

    Ordinary Alison Dowling is now the Labour candidate for Paisley & Renfrewshire South, hopefully going to get soundly beaten by Mhairi Black on June 8th.

    Any other updates?

  373. David says:

    Department of Where are they now, Part 2:

    Ordinary Kyle Thornton has today won a council seat for the Tories in Newlands/Auldburn ward of Glasgow City.

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