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The None Of Your Business Convener

Posted on September 23, 2020 by

The SNP have historically been swift to suspend any party members when there’s any hint of inappropriate conduct, never mind even a whiff of illegality. It’s been that way since 2015, with the axe falling on elected members as well as candidates in target seats and critical elections, and ordinary activists.

Not even a by-your-leave, let alone an explanation, is afforded – just suspension with immediate effect. And that’s all well and good, some might say. No hint of impropriety should attach to the party and making a virtue of acting swiftly can be both necessary and appropriate.

So why then no action against the Chief Executive?

It’s over a week since revelations broke of What’s App messages sent by Peter Murrell to his Chief Operating Officer purporting to encourage pressure be brought to bear on police in the Alex Salmond case. Indeed, they appeared even to go beyond that, with the suggestion of the instigation of another enquiry by the Metropolitan Police.

(Any doubt there might have been over the document’s authenticity now resolved by the Crown instigating a police investigation into a leak.)

Now those things may or may not be criminal but it’s certainly conduct unbecoming of a party Chief Executive, raising questions about both him and his actions. After all, the SNP is the governing party and seeking to influence criminal investigations is simply unacceptable. Supporting an investigation can be laudable, pressurizing those doing the investigating most certainly can’t, and the terms of reference seem clear. You’d have therefore thought action would have been swift and speedy.

But no! The NEC met on Sunday past and yet failed to even discuss it, despite the pleas and demands of several members. It appears that the Business Convener ruled after just over two hours that the meeting was at an end. Neither the Chief Executive’s actions nor his report were discussed. Instead the meeting was summarily concluded.

There may have been urgent business that was so essential this required to wait, though that doesn’t seem to be the case. Instead it simply seems to have been viewed of little importance, neither being placed up the agenda nor the meeting extended to ensure that it was addressed.

That itself is surprising as the NEC hasn’t been overly busy this year. (Other than for some individual members who seem to have been preparing their candidacies and influencing decisions that might favour their own ambitions.)

Having not met for months during lockdown you’d have thought that some additional meetings might be called for, or even a modest time extension to those taking place. This wasn’t even an all-day meeting. After all, critical policy areas remain a vacuum and many of the necessary preliminaries for next year’s vital election are still awaited.

But this seems to be the way for the None Of Your Business Convener. Writing to her last week on this particular issue I still await even the courtesy of a reply. But why would I expect that when previous requests back in June have similarly gone unanswered and unacknowledged?

Back then I was also raising issues to do with those now shown to be involved in this controversy. The aspects that I then sought clarification on were firstly how the salary of the Chief Executive was set. Not an unreasonable request, you’d have thought, and something you’d consider pretty straightforward to answer. Surely policies and procedures apply as part of good governance in Scotland’s largest political party?

Sadly, though, I’d felt the need to write to the Business Convener because the National Treasurer couldn’t tell me. Colin Beattie – who I hold in the highest regard – wasn’t trying to be obstructive, he just didn’t know. I made it clear in my communications with the Business Convener that I wasn’t seeking confidential information or figures, simply the procedures.

But nothing, nada, rien. Its believed it’s a salary above that of a Cabinet Secretary, but all I’d like to know is how and by who’s it agreed?

The WhatsApp message was an instruction to the party Chief Operating Officer, and I have also raised questions about her appointment, seemingly in November 2018. It’s a post that had never before existed in the SNP, though there had been a Deputy Chief Executive position from 2013-16, created it seems to provide a wage for Shirley-Anne Somerville after she failed to win a by-election. (The position ceased to exist when she left it after winning the same seat at the 2016 election.)

But despite Chief Operating Officer being a brand-new post it doesn’t ever appear to have been advertised either within or outwith the party, nor is the salary disclosed.

All that is information that should be available to party members, as is action against the Chief Executive. But with a “None Of Your Business” Convener in charge, not even the NEC seems to get know or do anything about it.

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  1. 23 09 20 18:57

    The None Of Your Business Convener | speymouth

  2. 25 09 20 13:47

    The None Of Your Business Convener –

  3. 28 09 20 14:10

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225 to “The None Of Your Business Convener”

  1. Ross says:

    You are asking fair questions, Kenny.

    Questions on the COO would have been timely win 2018 too. Not good that it’s just been slipped under the radar. Can’t remember the executive committee making the case for the appointment.

    I think much is being made of the Chief Executive pressuring hte police. I’d like evidence of that this is malfeasant, rather than simply wanting to see investigations conducted into an important allegation.

  2. Beaker says:

    Just to be clear, I am not nor have I been a member of any political party, let alone the SNP. Nor am I one of the blind faithful.

    There are obviously issues with the SNP leadership, but why raise this here? Surely if the NEC is ignoring you, then you should be using your influence to contact the local SNP groups and get them to put pressure on. If there is a big enough swell of opinion, the leadership will be forced to make changes.

    To be honest, why not just challenge Sturgeon for the leadership directly? The way things are going you are going to get yourself suspended. Or is that the intention?

  3. Ross says:

    Beaker, far more likely to influence the SNP leadership via this site than through largely useless branch meetings.

    Public opinion is not changed by brances, not in this age.

  4. Beaker says:

    Ross says:
    23 September, 2020 at 5:32 pm
    “Public opinion is not changed by branches, not in this age.”

    It does when money dries up as people resign. Money drives politics, SNP included.

  5. Effijy says:

    This is horrific.
    SNP are sounding more like the Tories who think
    as we are the good guys and always right don’t ask questions.

    This gutter has steeper and steeper slopes!

  6. Mist001 says:

    They won’t want to be seen as being influenced by a post on a website, and especially Wings, so I think it’ll just make them dig in even deeper and you’re even less likely to receive answers to your questions now.

  7. Kenny says:

    In today’s earlier post ‘Weir’s No Way’, I offered the following comment:

    ‘Some are suggesting keeping their membership, ‘to fight from within’ and while that’s an honourable approach, I’m not confident. The current SNP simply don’t smell sweet enough for my trust to stretch that far’.

    Then I read the above in this guest post by MP MacAskill:

    ‘The NEC met on Sunday past and yet failed to even discuss it, despite the pleas and demands of several members’..

    I rest my case.

  8. Dave Llewellyn says:

    Less than two weeks ago the First minister said in parliament that it would be entirely misappropriated for her to interfere in a police investigation. Obviously her husband has different ideas about that.

  9. Astonished says:

    The delaying or hiding of the SNP accounts may be entirely innocent but once they are released……..

    The glitteratti/wokeratti at the top of the SNP must start taking things seriously. Angus macleod, hamza yusuf, rhiannon speirs and peter murrell must go ( think of the savings for the cash strapped snp).

    The vetting committee must be examined and science-deniers expelled. This will have two immediate benefits women can feel safe voting SNP and some of those who left will return.

    Rumours are that we are below 70,000 members, so inaction ( or worse continuation of the woman -hating policies) will destroy the party.

    Possibly that’s what they want.

  10. Lothianlad says:

    A deliberate policy of distancing the grass roots from the democratic process within the party.
    Also the deliberate attempt to have the ruling party seen to be a thing like untouchable elitist.
    A deliberate attempt to silence and discredit anyone who may push to vigorously for their liking independence.
    Those involved are happy to be in the inner circle, as they are bought by the temporary trappings of power and influence.

    This has all the hallmarks of the british secret service infiltration and influence in the SNP SG.

    When groups have to be formed to get the SNP to start pushing for independence, you know there is a serious problem at the top of the SNP.

  11. Breeks says:

    “…It’s over a week since revelations broke of What’s App messages sent by Peter Murrell to his Chief Operating Officer purporting to encourage pressure be brought to bear on police in the Alex Salmond case. Indeed, they appeared even to go beyond that, with the suggestion of the instigation of another enquiry by the Metropolitan Police….

    …Now those things may or may not be criminal but it’s certainly conduct unbecoming of a party Chief Executive..”

    I’m no lawyer, but I think there is an issue about whether this actually is criminal to go beyond merely reporting a crime to police, and seeking to manipulate a police response, especially though unorthodox channels. Wouldn’t this constitute attempting to pervert the course of justice?

    That the accusations against Alex Salmond were subsequently revealed as an orchestrated conspiracy, puts Murrell’s WhatsApp comments in an even shadier light. Furthermore, surely he is now directly implicated in the Conspiracy?

  12. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    If the SNP do not get us an Indy ref following the next Holyrood elections we must give up on that party.

    A new party has to be seriously considered. I know it will take time and money but if we want independence we have to give thought to the new party.

    The current mess that is the SNP will not serve us well.

  13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Surely if the NEC is ignoring you, then you should be using your influence to contact the local SNP groups and get them to put pressure on. If there is a big enough swell of opinion, the leadership will be forced to make changes.”

    This is amazingly naive given everything we’ve learned in recent weeks.

  14. twathater says:

    Kenny I thank you again for bringing to Scottish voters attention how this is not the openness and transparency we Scots were PROMISED by Nicola Sturgeon

    I freely admit AGAIN I have never been a member of ANY political party or organisation although I did consider joining the SNP if it helped further my independence dreams.

    When you raise the situation that ANY and ALL instances that arose which could BESMIRCH or damage the reputation or standing of the party was dealt with with extreme expediency, no matter the protestations of innocence or repudiation the sentence of cauterisation was swiftly and ultimately imposed and in most cases done with maximum publicity

    YET when the Chief Executive of the party has allegedly orchestrated and organised a DELIBERATE attempt alongside others to aggravate and encourage a state organisation’s investigation into unfounded charges for which the accused was found innocent he still has the temerity and arrogance to remain in post

  15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “They won’t want to be seen as being influenced by a post on a website, and especially Wings, so I think it’ll just make them dig in even deeper and you’re even less likely to receive answers to your questions now.”

    Humza Yousaf just caved on the Hate Crime Bill and is now making amendments regarding intent. It was far from only Wings that was loudly opposing the bill, of course, but it does suggest that media pressure is far more effective than internal party pressure.

  16. Andy Ellis says:


    I think the wilful blindness of many SNP members and/or supporters one of the most depressing aspects of our current political malaise to be honest. 🙁

    Granted my parting of the ways with them had a particular focus, as I was just so horrified at their treatment of Gareth Wardell I couldn’t remain part of an organisation that behaved that way. It DID however show that ordinary members have no recourse and are routinely ignored, and that the party bureaucracy is unaccountable and untouchable.

    There have been many similar, or even more flagrant abuses since Grouse Beater was defenestrated: they confirm that there is something rotten in the very core of the party.

  17. susanXX says:

    Fascinating (disturbing) article Kenny MacAskill.

  18. WhoRattledYourCage says:

    Jealousy can make a man behave in strange and terrible ways.

  19. kapelmeister says:

    Everything should be above board in a democratic party. Sturgeon’s SNP is, by contrast, all stitch-ups, secret salaries, unelected posts, cabals, favouritism, silencing of dissent, and now the atrocious and deliberate failure to quiz Murrell at the NEC. Appalling.

  20. Republicofscotland says:

    Well its pretty obvious that Sturgeon and Murrell are running the show, and isn’t she the head of the SNP’s NEC? If so its unlikely that she’d weaken her grip on the party by having her hubby removed.

    Of course it smacks of rules for for some but not for others.

  21. David Rodgers says:

    Recognise the woman with NS as my MP in East Renfrewshire which was a surprise as she is nowhere named in the article!

    Maybe I could send her – Kirsten Oswald -an email as a constituent asking about Peter Murell 🙂

  22. Bob Mack says:

    Surely Murrell has broken a few items in the SNP code of conduct. He actually provided them in an appendix to his letter to the Committee dea!ing with the Internal Inquiry.

    I’m sure at least two items could be attributed to Mr Murrells conduct.

    I presume he’s a member of the party?

  23. Sarah says:

    If the SNP is so rotten, how is it that Joanna Cherry and Philippa Whitford are still in it? I may be naive but those two seem to me to be transparently honest, sincere, good people.

    The SNP members I know most are the same.

  24. Alf Baird says:

    Kenny MacAskill has done the independence movement a big favour in highlighting this. Mr Murrell clearly needs to go, as do most of the NEC by all accounts. The FM will hopefully follow them out the door. The National Party needs new leadership, but would a new leadership drawn from what remains really be that much different? Perhaps the National Party itself is now too rotten to save? In that case there is an urgent need for a true National Party whose sole aim is independence and led by a team of people trusted by the independence movement to liberate Scotland. We might start with all those who have been and are being persecuted as well as those who have helped to lift the lid on the rottenness.

  25. ClanDonald says:

    It looks like there isn’t going to be an SNP conference any time soon either so no chance for the membership to get rid of the corrupt NEC. Party democracy destroyed under the cover of covid.

    I’m appalled at the Shirley-Anne Somerville sinecure by the way, they appear to think the SNP is their own private company where they can behave how they please and spend party resources on their own personal pet projects, who the fu*k do they think they are?

  26. Great to see Michelle back into politics,(Falkirk East i think)

    she was one of the more eloquent and perceptive of the SNP 56,

    maybe why she was targeted by the British Nationalists,

    she is a real Scots fighter.

  27. Bob Mack says:


    The SNP is packed with great people, but they seem to be getting stripped of the power to change anything by the hierarchy. That is the thing that must be sorted.

  28. robertknight says:


    It appears that, in another example of Orwellian behaviour, the NEC has adopted “Ignorance is Strength” as it’s slogan.

    The only comfort I can take from the current state of the SNP is that they’re not squandering any of my hard-earned.

  29. J Galt says:

    I left the party 3 months ago, however I would re-join a rejuvenated SNP under a radically different leadership.

    I hope you have some kind of game plan behind your increasing pressure on the present leadership and allies in place for the inevitable battle ahead.

    Sturgeon and Murrell will not be able to afford to ignore you much longer, and with them having the apparent backing of the Scottish establishment and media you will no doubt be in for lively times ahead, however I’m sure you are well aware of that.

    Good Luck!

  30. Iain Lawson says:

    A great service to the real Party, the grassroots of the Party who have no involvement in these disgusting efforts to take control of the Party from the ordinary members. Many are still struggling to believe it despite the now overwhelming evidence.

    To those who still doubt I ask where are the denials? If you were being wrongly accused surely you would respond with a better defence than silence? Another question I ask admittedly after a long absence from being on the NEC,how did this most democratic of organisations allow itself to be taken over by people who would not recognise justice and decency if it smacked them on

  31. Hatuey says:

    Sarah: “ If the SNP is so rotten, how is it that Joanna Cherry and Philippa Whitford are still in it?”

    I’m not sure anyone here is suggesting the SNP is so rotten. Rather, I think the suggestion is that it has been hijacked by rotten people.

    Everything you need to know about rotten politics and rotten politicians can be found in Animal Farm;

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

  32. yesbot says:

    Scot Finlayson says:
    23 September, 2020 at 7:18 pm
    Great to see Michelle back into politics,(Falkirk East i think)
    she was one of the more eloquent and perceptive of the SNP 56,
    maybe why she was targeted by the British Nationalists,
    Why do you think she was targeted by British Nationalists?

    Inside job surely?

  33. Achnababan says:

    I came face to face with Ms Sturgeon at a Burns Nicht in Aberdeen. She was in the same set as me in an eightsome reel. Her dance partners (minders) were 2 young gentlemen who both wore white silk gloves!!

    This was before C-19 and gave me the strong impression that she was a wee bittie weird…..

  34. Bob Mack says:

    No doubt Kenny McAskill will be in the firing line as well forbid contribution.

    Probably something about bringing the party into disrepute more than likely. How ironic.

  35. Balaaargh says:

    The party needs a Gerry Fisher more than ever.

  36. Kenny says:

    ClanDonald, 7.13pm:

    ‘It looks like there isn’t going to be an SNP conference any time soon either so no chance for the membership to get rid of the corrupt NEC.’..

    Maybe the membership don’t want to/aren’t yet ready to get rid of the corrupt NEC? – have you seen the lie of the land on Twitter? They want to kill you for uttering a truth. They don’t want their special dream to end, and their glorious loss followed by the halcyon ‘victory’ is a fiercely protected comfort zone. Part of me can’t blame them, for we’ve invested so much in our party – time, trust, money. I admit; I was a bit slow myself to see – to force myself to see – that something was out of kilter, but here I am.

    If we continue to tactfully inform folk of what’s going down, by the time the Covid-delayed SNP conference actually takes place it might just be a different story?

  37. Polly says:

    Well said Mr MacAskill. It’s time these things were addressed. Good luck to you.

  38. @yesbot,

    any reason for an `inside job`,

    no sayin it wasn`t just cannae think why.

  39. Helen Yates says:

    This whole rotten debacle must be brought out into the open and dealt with swiftly before the damage becomes irreversible. for the husband of the FM to be the CEO of the party is something that should never have been acceptable in the first place.

  40. Polly says:

    ‘Rumours are that we are below 70,000 members, so inaction ( or worse continuation of the woman -hating policies) will destroy the party.
    Possibly that’s what they want.’

    I’m sure there are factions within who do want that. It is no coincidence this is all coming to a head at this time which is why I argue we should still vote SNP next election to spite them. We don’t know what Kenny, Alex, Joanna, Philippa, Joan and others might accomplish. They’re not leaving yet so may have hope to salvage the party and pursue independence to spite the rest. We should follow their lead.

  41. Republicofscotland says:

    Kudos to the National newspaper, its carried a few of Kenny MacAskill’s articles on Wings.

  42. A Person says:


    My son served Ms Sturgeon while working in a function suite about seven years ago and she never said please or thank you. Quite seriously, I have never fully trusted her since.

  43. Mist001 says:

    Well, that’s some good news tonight, that this story and website has been featured in The National. That means they likely won’t be able to ignore it and it can’t just be brushed over.

    I was thinking earlier, does the CEO of the SNP actually have to be a member of the SNP or can they be independent of any political party?

  44. Big Jock says:

    So the post was created for London’s man in Edinburgh! That explains a lot.

    Murrell is a plant. It’s why the press are silent.

  45. Colin Alexander says:

    “So why then no action against the Chief Executive?”

    That’s clever how the article cuts at that point in the summary view.

    It leaves it at a question that sort of answers itself. There’s a wider and just as serious issue as the Murrells and co’s fishy business.

    How are the current crop of SNP MPs and MSPs gonnae bring down the British Empire in Scotland? They can’t even bring justice in their own party. Apart from a few voices such as MacAskill, Cherry and MacNeil the rest have been as weak as water, looking at their feet, pretending they don’t see a problem.

    An absolute bloody shambles. The UK Govt must be pissing themselves with glee at such spineless “champions” of Scottish sovereignty.

  46. I Wright says:

    That favour for Shirley-Anne Somerville certainly paid dividends soon enough.

  47. Hatuey says:

    Looking ahead, how exciting would it be to see a return of Salmond in some capacity, alongside the likes of MacAskill and Cherry, at the helm of the SNP and Indy movement?

    We have the makings of a real dream team here, and it would scare the life out of the British state. These are people I’d trust.

    It’s always darkest just before the dawn.

  48. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Reading about what is going on within the SNP, I get the impression a lot of low-flying Jimmies appear to have migrated from the Labour Party to the SNP.

  49. Derek Rogers says:

    @J Galt 7.43pm:

    “I hope you have some kind of game plan behind your increasing pressure on the present leadership and allies in place for the inevitable battle ahead.

    Sturgeon and Murrell will not be able to afford to ignore you much longer.”

    Do you mean that Sturgeon and Murrell won’t be able to resist this pressure in just the same way as the UK government won’t be able to resist the Scottish demand for a Section 30 order? Aye, right.

  50. Mist001 says:

    Even if Mr. Murrell was removed from his post, would it really make any difference? He’s still married to Mrs. Murrell and they can’t just sit with an elephant in the room, they obviously discuss SNP matters, so nothing will change in that respect. He’ll still hold sway because like I said the other night, he makes the bullets, she fires them.

    The only way to start sorting the party out is to get rid of both Murrells.

  51. Alf Baird says:

    I recently received the note below from Mr. Murrell, who I wish all the best in his next post:

    Thank you for letting us know that you wish to leave the SNP.

    We’re sorry to see you go. In meantime, please accept my thanks for your contribution to the party.

    Peter Murrell

    Chief Executive

    Scottish National Party

  52. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s a very long time since I studied the implementation of effective corporate compliance with the law, but when the NEC decides to take things seriously, please make sure to incorporate a legal respect for the human genome into the party’s constitution. It will do wonders for their democratic integrity, and most probably make them more electable to a wider demographic.

    Guiding Principles
    on Business
    and Human Rights

    the United Nations
    “Protect, Respect and
    Remedy” Framework

  53. Hatuey says:

    Mist, we only need to kick the door in and the whole rotten edifice will crumble…

    It’s hard to see how Sturgeon could carry on given the seriousness of what has been alleged.

    And, of course, we have been told by very reliable sources that there’s much more to come.

  54. Big Jock says:

    Hatuey- The way things are going , the general public won’t have a clue about this scandal.

    Seems the party, the crown, the police and the MSM are all suffering from cognitive dissonence.

  55. Kenny says:

    What always strikes me how everything is so very black and white, so night and day, so up and down.

    What I mean is this. On the one side there are obviously talented politicans, committed democrats, principled men and women, intelligent, charismatic, pro-indy…

    On the other side…. well….

    It is like one of those children cartoons when the “baddies” are so repugnant, actually very stupid, ugly both inside and outside, vain and corrupt… and spend all their time attacking the “goodies”…

    Show me one exception to this rule! I dare you!

  56. Astonished says:

    I have always admired Kenny MacAskill. I have not always agreed with him. However regarding peter murrell he is entirely right.

    peter murrell MUST be hung by his own petard. According to the “justice ” meted out by murrell to many others, he must be expelled from the party.

    And remember Kenny MacAskill freed Abdelbaset al-Megrahi because it WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. There was absolutely no political advantage to that decision.

    As I recall his decision was fully supported by Alex Salmond.

    How times have changed.

  57. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Thankfully, someone who’s served his time and who knows the SNP inside-out is casting a wary eye in the direction of Mr Murrell. If asked for my opinion, I would say that the beginning of the final-act is underway. My sincere thanks, Kenny MacAskill.

  58. kapelmeister says:

    To employ Murrell’s own terminology, it looks like he won’t have to firefight on the NEC front. But that only makes the conflagration he faces worse elsewhere.

  59. Big Jock says:

    Murrell will step down for health reasons. He is to weak to face the music.

  60. Tartanpigsy says:

    Agree 100% with Josef above. Kenny MacAskill in 87 was the first politician I knocked doors for when a student at Heriot Watt.
    He’s always, struck me as being a determined non sufferer of fools.
    You have my and many others full backing in this move.

  61. Big Jock says:

    BTW. I think with Murrell out of the way. Sturgeon might actually concentrate on independence.

  62. Roderick Laing says:

    This is just getting worse and worse. For the SNP apparatchik’s please ask the proper questions of the party like why is no one answering these allegations. Why was a job created and dissolved for someone and why wasn’t Alex Salmond given support instead of attacked. Just ask some proper questions.

  63. kapelmeister says:

    The stage is set for the Twilight of the Gods. Gotterdammerung.

    The Yes movement will be cleansed, and then…..

  64. Hatuey says:

    Big Jock says:
    23 September, 2020 at 10:11 pm
    Hatuey- The way things are going , the general public won’t have a clue about this scandal.


    The polls suggest that the general public are engaged politically, despite the corona crisis.

    It’s inevitable that this is going to explode quite massively at some point.

    One good thing we can say with certainty, given the focus of this article in regards to wages and funds, not to mention the Salmond stuff, is that we are definitely not dealing with an infestation of moles or agents.

    There’s no way on earth any mole or double agent would blow their cover by behaving like this.

    Every cloud.

  65. Big Jock says:

    I’m not so sure that Murrell isn’t working for the Brits. The lack of press coverage for this scandal? The cosying up to Sturgeon by the media. The SG giving funding to MSM but not bloggers???

  66. shug says:

    There are clearly questions to be asked and punishments issued.
    However; are we really to get rid of Nicola when polls are now approaching 60% and Westminster is clearly bricking it.

    Westminster politicians are now taking the line we don’t want another divisive referendum, which is quite different from, no there won’t be one, and only the very soft question handed to them what about Scotland. Not the much harder do the people of Scotland have the right to choose what happens next?

    Do we really think we will do better bringing Salmond back and starting again??

    Salmond surely has a special place in the party and the arguments ahead.

  67. Ronald Fraser says:

    I hope to God we have a dream team ready to take up the reins once the Murrells move on.

    You just can’t enjoy these high poll figures while Sturgeon is still at the helm.

    Is this the beginning of the end for the . Murrells?

    Let’s all hope so.

  68. Polly says:

    @ Big Jock

    ‘I’m not so sure that Murrell isn’t working for the Brits. The lack of press coverage for this scandal? The cosying up to Sturgeon by the media. The SG giving funding to MSM but not bloggers???’

    The fact he seemed happy to place the blame on Nicola must come into that too. He never knew, she never told him, it was government business only. Seemed willing to cast his wife adrift.

  69. Big Jock says:

    I think if they both stepped down, rather than left after a bloody court case. Then this could be less damaging.

    Like it or not. Sturgeon has built trust in Scotland over her Covid handling. That’s reflected in the polls.

    The problem is that she cannot deliver independence.She has thin skin and poor loyalty. To free your country you need to be loyal to your people and ruthless in your determination.

    She isn’t a Salmond or a Mandela or a Michael Collins. She doesn’t have the stomach for the dirty fight.

    I believe Jo Cherry does have those qualities. On top of that Jo is the smartest MP in the whole UK. Much as Salmond was.

  70. Hatuey says:

    Big Jock, there’s no way on earth anyone working for the Brits would act like that after getting into the heart of the party. In those sort of circumstance the obvious goal would be to blend in and linger for years.

    The silence on this, not just by the MSM but also other political parties, derives from their understanding (as Rev. suggested earlier) that Sturgeon is the least bad option for them right now.

    If this is bad for Sturgeon and the SNP establishment, it’s even worse for Scottish Unionists and the British Establishment. Hardly surprising that they teamed up on this when you look at it like that.

    It can only mean a real resurgence for the independence movement and that’s something they have all tried to block over the last 6 years.

  71. Big Jock says:

    Polly – Yes and Murrell was also determined to convict Salmond! Salmond is despised by the MSM. Murrell seems to walk in the shadows.

  72. Grouse Beater says:

    “My parting of the ways with them had a particular focus, as I was just so horrified at their treatment of Gareth Wardell” Andy Ellis

    I can add to this sorry saga with developments I learned only yesterday. Keep in mind as I relate this sordid tale I was a lapsed member; SNP without jurisdiction over a private citizen.

    It transpires the committee perceived what everybody else already knew and told them, namely, no one could find overt anti-Semitism in the essay. Without knowing who I was, or meeting me to discuss their concerns, they pronounced judgment in my absence – it was decided the ‘SNP could not rule it out’.

    Consequently, the group erred on the side of endorsing slander, unwittingly giving succour to their opponents the very thing they had hoped to avoid and protect SNP’s reputation. I was left feeling, if the SNP was created to protect the rights of Scotland why did that not include its citizens treading the same path in the same direction to self-governance?

    So, a non-member was ‘expelled’. This, despite hundreds of protests from the rank and file who *did* know me, eminent people signing a petition, and Jewish intellectuals confirming the work was free of slant.

    They also ignored the plain fact the woman in question never accused me of anything more than disturbing her Sunday with criticism of GMB tactics and her efforts in the bogus ‘Glasgow women’s rally’, augmented by women bussed in from England, unaffected by wage inequality.

    The accusation actually came from two top officials of the GMB, the Scottish boss, who admitted he had never read the article. He has since resigned under a cloud of what the investigating QC claims is a rotten union rife with sexual harassment. How’s that for irony?

    The GMB’s fraudulent claims were taken up by Labour’s axe man, Neil Findlay, a dunce who thinks Scotland is better intimidated than free, and his comic feed, the lamentable Richard Leonard.

    I am told SNP’s constitution won’t allow for a wrong corrected unless accompanied by a request to rejoin the SNP, and even then the individual could be in for another humiliation. To submit to that process encourages double jeopardy – sentenced for the same ‘crime’ twice.

    If successful, however, the SNP stand to be ridiculed in the press for welcoming back someone they once daubed anti-Semitic, the classic cleft-stick dilemma.

    The solution is a written apology with an offer to rejoin – accept the former, graciously, reject the latter, politely.

    Everybody saves face, everybody is happy … but does any reader feel the SNP has scruple enough to do the right thing, or wonder why among the higher echelons no one appears to have a veto to overturn a glaring injustice?

    As my ultra-smart wife said at the time with her usual incisive observation: “Does the SNP really want a man with your skills on the outside being critical, or the inside being diplomatic?”

    For the record, the first person to indicate embarrassment was Joanna Cherry, months later, more recently Alex Salmond.

    Neither the SNP’s calumny nor its unsavory consequences stops me from promoting this nation’s liberty. Know that some people are taught integrity, some acquire integrity, and some would sell their integrity for temporary preferment.

    For my part, I know integrity carries a price.

    Yours, still angry

    Grouse Beater

  73. Big Jock says:

    Another thing Murrel is 56.look at his bio. He seems to just appear out of nowhere. He has never had any kind of job other than working for the SNP.

    He started as an agent for Salmond. Again where a plant would be placed! So he has had years to infiltrate, if that’s what he was doing.

    As for an agent not screwing up. Remember, Salmond was supposed to be in stir just now. They thought they had invented a watertight conviction. If he had been found guilty they would have chucked the book at him.

  74. tartanfever says:

    What I find most depressing is that we now see a role reversal of every election since 2014.

    Unionists campaigned solely on a ‘No to Indyref 2’ platform for every election, whether that be council to national. The Independence movement complained that these were not referendums but elections of everyday governance.

    Now the shoe is on the other foot. It’s the SNP and supporters largely campaigning on Holyrood 2021 being about a second Indyref, largely forgetting that it isn’t. It’s about everyday governance.

    Thats why this is important to remember. next year is an election, not a referendum. The ‘new’ SNP would like you to forget that so that a majority will allow them to pass unhindered their appalling new legislations.

  75. Polly says:

    In those sort of circumstance the obvious goal would be to blend in and linger for years.’

    But hasn’t he done just that? He was always in the background, not all that much seems known about him, married the heiress in waiting. If there are agents working within the party surely coming up to final brexit is the time to reactivity them? God knows whether people are correct to suspect him of that, but we have lots of other things to suspect him of now. More than enough suspicion to need to ditch him.

    @ Big Jock

    Those missives to the inquiry showed strange behaviour in a husband certainly. I agree about Murrell, the more you look the more you wonder. But even on what can be proved now, I think he’s a liability.

  76. Polly says:

    Deactivate them. Sorry

  77. Polly says:

    Reactivate them. Sorry

  78. stonefree says:

    @ Mist001 at 9:40 pm

    Does the CEO of the SNP actually have to be a member of the SNP…. No, the officer can be appointed, following the party constitution, Now I have never read the SNP constitution, if the rules say you have to be a member, then I see a problem if the job was to be offered

  79. ElGordo says:

    I was once at an event that Nicola Sturgeon also attended.

    We happened to visit the bath rooms at the same time.

    She was pleasant enough and said hello.

    But i couldn’t help but notice that she swiped twice on the hand towel dispenser.

    It was at this point it hit home to me that she was wasteful, self centered and overly cautious.

    From this day I have known that she didn’t have Scotlands best interests at heart, despite her feeble protestations of spending the last 30 years of her life (aledgedly) devoted to this.

  80. Ronald Fraser says:

    When fighting a war of independence, you need your crack troops at your side, willing to die for the cause.

    At the moment we have no leader of the Independence Movenent and no crack troops to lead the way either.

    Just think of the poll figures we could be looking at if we had our chosen leader and the Indy foot soldiers leading the charge.

    I could see us hitting the 70% mark if we were all on the same planet.

    For that reason alone,


  81. Polly says:

    @ Grouse Beater

    Sorry you went through that. There should always be a quick and easy way for any party which makes public errors about members, far less voters, in that way to address the issue and apologise and retract. I feel if they were public in pronouncements then the apology should also be public, whether or not the individual wishes to rejoin the party. Good luck to you.

  82. Skip_NC says:

    The National Treasurer doesn’t know how the salary of the Chief Executive is decided? How can he sign off on the accounts or present them to the auditors for audit?

    There’s a lot of cut-and-paste in these audit reports – I do it myself several times a month – but that does not alter the reality that the words on the page mean something and carry a risk for those who take a pen and sign their [redacted] to them.

  83. Polly says:

    @ ElGordo

    I wondered where your story was going with the hand towel dispenser. Briefly I feared you were going to have to use it for something else entirely.

  84. Hatuey says:

    “But i couldn’t help but notice that she swiped twice on the hand towel dispenser.

    It was at this point it hit home to me that she was wasteful, self centered and overly cautious.”


  85. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    We might not be here long enough to worry about any indyref2.

    Trump has just said from the White House -of all places that he ‘won’t commit to a peaceful transfer of power’ if he loses.

    Get under your bed on 3rd nov!

  86. susanXX says:

    It’s thoroughly disgusting the way you were treated Grouse Beater. I wouldn’t rejoin either.

  87. James Barr Gardner says:

    Peter what do MI5 have on you ????????

  88. Beaker says:

    If Murrell goes it will be done quietly so as not to rock the boat. He’s collateral damage. Question is, who replaces him?

  89. Famous15 says:

    BUT ElGordo is masculine surely. What were you doing in that toilet.?

    Silly me.

  90. Al-Stuart says:


    Thankyou for an incisive post on the matter of whether Peter Murrell may have infracted the law relating to: perverting the course of justice”.

    You say you are no lawyer. Neither am I but I have the training, bona fides, and for several years the warrant card as an officer of the law to may be able to help.

    On current form, on another matter one of my league beagle friends is litigating. Police Scotland and the incumbent chief constable are on a very sticky wicket. Chief Constable Iain Livingstone’s police force have already lost a key case in their bad habit obfustication blanket refusal to comply with Freedom of Information (FOISA) requests.

    FOISA blanket refusals are endemic at Police Scotland’s official, public domain FOISA Disclosure Log (aka BUGGER OFF ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS). Kind of apt, given the very words that Kenny MacAskill has written here.

    Incidentally there is case law and precedent that may impact upon the WattsApp case which has the potential to land both Murrells in court…

    However, back on topic…

    My point?

    Police Scotland WILL NOT want to take a complaint nor touch any complaint alleging impropriety against Peter Murrell. I would however beg to differ. Iain Livingstone is a highly qualified, very intelligent chief and from what my colleague advises is no fool. So likely to err on the side of safety rather than end up like one of his fellow Chief Constables…

    Iain, this sort of thing can and does happen to chiefs, so please play this one straight. It may be painful and one of the hardest things you will ever need to do in your Police career, but when you do get the written complaint about Peter Murrell, best not fob it off.

    Breeks, I would advise that and one, two, maybe even a dozen folk from Wings Over Scotland and further afield WRITE to Police Scotland indicating the concern that Peter Murrell has left evidence implicating him in the PERVERSION OF THE COURSE OF JUSTICE and should AT THE VERY LEAST be subject to a police inquiry, even if just to clear his name. The written word (of a complaint) carries more gravitas than a spoken report over the telephone which are all to frequently dismissed (of “lost”) by a police person. Alternative dodge from doing any real police work in these difficult cases is the simple and oft heard refrain of… “Sorry Mrs Biggins, this is not a police matter”.

    With respect to a written compliant to Police Scotland, I would highlight concern on the explicit evidence attributed by Peter Murrell as per the quotes in he public domain from the notorious WattsApp group within which Peter Murrell allegedly sought to pervert justice by manipulating as many conspirators to attack (misuse police resources) on Alex Salmond as possible. Murrell may face a secondary caution/charge of: WASTING POLICE TIME.

    For our friends in the 77th and their liaison officer who reports back to his counterpart at Information resource and intelligence at Police Scotland, I would respectfully ask the police focus any enquiries on that WhatsApp evidence and if the evidence leads to a case of PERVERTING THE COURSE OF JUSTICE then Police Scotland SHOULD open the appropriate investigation.

    I would make best efforts to ensure the evidence ingathering from whoever HERE on Wings Over Scotland takes up the cudgels and writes to Police Scotland, makes copies of everything they do BECASE IT IS LIKELY the Scottish Police Authority and an external Police Force audit inquiry will need all that adit trail in order to ensure there has been NO dishonestly amongst Iain Livingstone’s finest.

    Given the clear conflict of interests that lurk, like mines at sea just below the water surface and the fact the CURRENT FIrst Minister is married to the potential Defendant, PLUS the ScotGov Justice Minister is one of the most ignorant, ill-suited persons to hold that post, KEEPING SCRUPULOUS RECORDS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. Whoever here writes a letter to Police Scotland, please ensure you have ALL documents relating to this matter for a secondary and tertiary audit by authorities external to Police Scotland.

    In summary: It just takes one person to file a formal complaint with Police Scotland for them to either investigate, or the dubious station officer/ForceHQ correspondent to face internal disciplinary charges in terms of NEGLECT OF DUTY.

    Officers at Police Scotland would be well advised this matter is more likely to follow the lines of..

    Martin Compston and AC12 than the all too often Police Scotland image of…

    One last point and it speaks to how articles such as this one written be Kenny can have ripples way beyond imagination, here is something real that happened in Westminster and that WILL happen in Scotland (instead of “Expenses Scandal”, insert “Sturgeon’s Group Falsely Frames Former First Minister.”)

    In October 2004, one person writing one Freedom of Information Request started off a chain reaction which saw the British Establishment and the mother of all parliaments brought to its knees.

    Her name is Heather Brooke.

    Heather was after the bent, the corrupt, the fraudulent gravy train riders at the Palace of Westminster. She succeeded. Though with a nod to Stuart Campbell’s reference to achieving anything in life as long as you don’t mind who gets the credit, Heather was robbed of her coupe de grace by the Daily Telegraph. Even then she bowed out in style. She did not complain that the Telegraph had stolen her story.

    Heather Brooke said the Telegraph “had done it so well.”

    She meant the Daily Telegraph had caused the defenestration of so many bent Lords and MPs, many to imprisonment.

    Heather Brooke had and has style.

    Be like Heather.

    Someone on here may well compose a letter to Police Scotland triggering a formal inquiry into the allegation of whether Peter Murrell and others infracted the law in relation to: PERVERTING THE COURSE OF JUSTICE.

    I don’t think for one minute Nicola Sturgeon would throw her husband under a bus. Given the legions of busectomies Sturgeon has performed on friends and foe, she is a hypocrite. Sturgeon will cover this up.

    It really has to be Police Scotland to investigate Peter Murrell and those WattsApp parcel o pogues to stand any chance of a proper inquiry.

    Kenny, MacAskill you are a brave, honourable and decent man. Thankyou for the work you are doing. There are a LOT of decent, ordinary hard working members of the SNP who need their party rescuing from this horrendous situation. I speak with my friends and have been saying that there are still some decent politicians about. I am sure others on here do too. Kenny MacAskill, Joanna Cherry, Alex Salmond, you are of that ilk. Thankyou.

    As for Kirsten Oswald…

    Kirsten, I knew your mum quite well and I think it fair to state she would be turning in her grave at what you have done to a political party she gave her life to. I was there at the SNP Branch meeting the night your mum had to let us all know she was dying.

    Kirsten, your mum was more interested in the welfare of the political movement she had devoted her life to than her imminent death. It was one of the bravest speeches I have witnessed in politics.

    Most of the membership at that night’s SNP meeting were deeply shocked. Many were in tears. It was one of the finest, heartfelt decent political testimonies I have witnessed. A few weeks later at your mum’s funeral, because Helen Oswald was the Provost of Angus the church was full to the brim. Full of good and honourable people, the majority of whom want Independence for Scotland.

    Kirsten, you appear to have lost your way. Please,please, for the sake of your family’s good name get a grip of what you are doing in the SNP. We need Scotland to become Independent. We do not need these 1984 Orwellian politicians fantasies where you get to tell everyone else to shut up or go to jail. Aka the Hate Crime Bill.

  91. Al-Stuart says:

    Link correction FAO Chief Constable Iain Livingstone at Police Scotland when handling complaints go wrong and how it may be a good idea to take a complaint against Peter Murrell allegedly perverting the course of justice seriously…

  92. Beaker says:


    One extra thing to add. If you are ever putting a complaint in writing, no matter who to, send it special delivery. Costs a little bit more but it is better than recorded delivery. Good advice from an ex-Royal Mail senior manager who is a friend of mine.

  93. James Barr Gardner says:

    Al Stuart.

    Thanks fer triggering a memory fur me. I wis was in a pub in Govan ca’d the tall Tall Cranes aboot 40 odd years ago an’ the barman pulled me up fer ma girlfriend’s age. Tae tell the truth she did look awfu’ young but hur Warrant Caird sorted things oot !

  94. James Barr Gardner says:

    Scotland’s block grant from Westminster cut by £309m ! WTF !

  95. Sandy says:

    There are posters on here who seem to have a personal vendetta against Nicola & her husband.
    This is not a kangaroo court blog, is it.

  96. stuart mctavish says:

    Salmond’s (contemporaneous) silence on the specifics will have made it particularly difficult for Peter Murrel to do anything other than provide maximum support for members claiming to be victims of sexual assault so not impossible that Kenny has been played with a view to distracting him from more important issues. Especially since, on this day of all days, the blazing guns of this particular MP might better have been aimed at either
    (a) the second reading of the overseas operations service personnel and veterans bill* (which appears to forgive recent historic abuses without question whilst blurring the chain of command and providing premeditated absolution for current and future torture of uk citizens overseas (by uk or allied military personnel)
    (b) his successor but one’s hate crime bill (which appears to prejudice against islam for stirring up hatred against infidels and would, by extension and regardless of intent, stir up hatred against its own petitioners)

    *whether by accident or design first reading passed on 18 March 2020 (in parallel with Flue And Covid Test Scaremongering) whilst second reading was to a relatively empty chamber for same reason.

  97. leither says:

    @ Grouse Beater

    do you have a link to the essay?

    that way we can decide ourselves

  98. J Galt says:

    Derek Rogers@9.54pm

    There are important differences – for instance pride is involved here, Ms Sturgeon’s image is now so far beyond the reality I wonder if she herself believes it.

    I am not saying that Mr MacAskill and his allies will win, however the stramash can’t be far off. There are internal party rules and procedures which Mr MacAskill and others of a like mind can avail themselves of, and which Ms Sturgeon and Mr Murrell will not be able to ignore.

    It appears to me that they are very much a double act and if one goes the other won’t be very far behind.

  99. brian lucey says:

    Would it not be easier for this blog to rename itself as snpbad?

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… would be hard to differentiate between a paid black ops operation and this blog when it comes to undermining the only realistic constitutional peaceful channel which Scotland has achieved independence

    Readers needs to examine when and how this site took the twist it did towards a relentless attacking of Scottish nationalism

  100. kapelmeister says:

    brian lucey @8:05 am

    It’s only fake nationalists who are undermined here. The people who would steer Scotland away from freedom and not towards it.

  101. Graeme says:

    brian lucey says:
    24 September, 2020 at 8:05 am

    Readers needs to examine when and how this site took the twist it did towards a relentless attacking of Scottish nationalism

    Presumably when SNP took their twist against independence and their loyal supporters and instead of carrying out what we elected them to do decided to use our vote to attack and falsely imprison Alex Salmond a true Scottish nationalist & patriot

  102. brian lucey says:

    Y’all are playing the game the British establishment want. Enjoy your virtue games … within the UK

  103. Ottomanboi says:

    If Sturgeon were as assiduous in her pursuit of independence as she is in eliminating the last SARS-CoV 2 virus from Scotland we might all be happier. After all the former is more attainable than the latter which in its aim has the delusional psychological character of the Anglo-Danish King Knut about it.

  104. leither says:

    In summary: It just takes one person to file a formal complaint with Police Scotland

    on you go then Al

    hint, get someone to spell check your letter first 🙂

  105. Effijy says:

    Sky News banner advises that Matt Handcock ESTIMATES
    that there are less than 10,000 new UK Covid cases per day
    but although that’s good the number is too high.

    Estimate? Some 7 months after Covid started to be managed
    and monitored the Tories don’t have testing kits, they cannot
    Turn around results from the kits they have in a reasonable
    Timescale and now we know they cannot even keep account
    Of what the R rate is?

    Could England’s Tory Party have outperformed Primary School kids
    In project managing this pandemic?

    Pathetic doesn’t sum it up and the daily lies just rub salt in the wounds.

  106. gullaneno4 says:

    Independence supporting politicians fighting each other and jockeying for position now that a free Scotland is actually attainable will likely lead to a disaster and another NO vote.

    Another NO vote will mean at least a real ‘generation’ before we can go again. I shall be dead by then.
    Ego strutting politicians are doing the people who actually want independence no favours.
    Time to put those egos and ambitions away and fight for a free Scotland.

    Sad but true fact is that Salmond is now history and will be used as a positive asset by the NO campaign.
    Naval gazing time is over we must now concentrate on what is achievable.

  107. OldPete says:

    Well said brian lucey.

  108. Bob Mack says:

    @Brian Lucey and Leither,

    We all know real Politik. Stabbed in the back for promotion better jobs,control etc. That’s fine. That’s part of politics.

    Sending a man to prison for life is not part of that game.

    Failing to deliver on promises made is I suppose what most party’s do as well. Delivering promises not made or discussed is also not acceptable. That is what the SNPare doing.

    You both may be willing to let life values pass you by on the way to freedom, but freedom under such conditions would be no freedom at all.

    Wings uncovers that stench and that’s what you don’t like.

    Not the actions of the people doing these things but the actions of those revealing them.

    You need to look at yourselves.

  109. leither says:

    @grouse beater

    you are not an snp member.

    you wrote an article, on a blog that no one reads, and then fell out with the GMB and slab.

    how is this anything to do with the snp?

  110. Dorothy Devine says:

    Brian Lucey , I’m with you on that.

    ElGordo , thanks for the smile.

  111. Effijy says:

    I agree that as things stand we would just need to acquiesce and vote SNP
    but they would need to guarantee that a majority victory at the election is a
    Green light to go 100% first priority for independence.

    Once achieved many in their number must be removed and we would then
    Be able to vote for opposition parties who are no longer London based.

    I don’t agree with so much within the SNP that I recently resigned but there
    Is no other party to vote for and not voting could unbelievably see the incompetent
    and immoral Tories get into power.

    That possibility is just stomach churning.

  112. Effijy says:

    Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

    Dear Backers,
    We are now less than 7 days from what is known as the by-order roll hearing. This hearing is to establish the schedule and process moving forward where parties are unable to agree. It is also the point where things should become public in terms of the arguments made. We are hoping this hearing will also be available for public consumption. With COVID 19, the courts are currently conducting many of the hearings by teleconferencing and by video conferencing.
    As you are aware, there have been several developments in the last month, not least the First Ministers announcement of a draft bill to be laid before the Scottish Parliament.
    If the Scottish National Party intends to stand for Holyrood in 2021 on the promise of a draft bill, then that bill must have a solid legal foundation, otherwise, it would be immediately challenged by the UK Government. To state otherwise would be a non sequitur and risk a situation where the promise of a second referendum would be nothing more than a perfunctory promise without foundation, failing to take account of the fact (which is exactly what happened with the continuity bill) would be a grievous error.
    It could ultimately lead to a broken promise of epic proportions resulting in massive constitutional paralysis and years of court battles to establish the legitimacy of the bill after the fact, exactly the scenario we have been warning about for the past year. The constitutionality of the Scottish Parliament being able to legislate for a second referendum must be elucidated before any bill is put before parliament. This is exactly the scenario we foresaw and the scenario that this case is designed to avoid.
    We have been in constant communication with the Advocate General and the Lord Advocate on exactly this point, mentioning specifically, that the SNP’s promise of that bill and the current circumstances completely eradicates any argument of this action being premature, hypothetical or academic. From those communications, we have been able to ascertain that the Scottish Government is anticipated to lay that draft bill before parliament in March 2021, immediately before the 2021 Election. As political observers, we believe that there is strong anecdotal evidence that the bill already exists in some form and there appears to be an attempt to obfuscate its existence.
    As the bill is directly relevant to our case and the matters under discussion, we have called upon them to provide it.
    Yesterday, I gave the go-ahead to file a motion for the specification of those documents in the court of session which will be filed on Friday. A copy of the motion can be found here:
    Over the next week, there should be several different announcements as we move closer to the hearing and, as always, I shall keep you all up to date.


    Martin Keatings

  113. G H Graham says:

    Shirley-Anne Somerville is my MSP.

    She’s a political careerist which is clearly evident from her resume & multiple failed attempts at getting a parliamentary seat.

    Many times she’s been invited to Culross, Fife to address a number of local issues but has invariably produced nothing beyond hollow rhetoric & media friendly soundbites.

    But that’s typical of politicians whose primary ambition is to acquire a safe seat & enjoy the freedom from accountability while feasting on taxpayers money for as long as the electorate are willing to tolerate their ineffectiveness.

    It is exactly this profile of politician which enables the likes of the NEC & Murrel to gradually acquire complete control & authority while quietly burying information which they consider none of anyone else’s business.

    Groupthink & adherance to this unspoken culture assures protection & support from those higher up. It’s a win-win for those with few skills which any decent private employer would not otherwise consider useful.

    There’s nowhere for people like Sommerville & the other bench-warmers to go that could possibly provide the liberty & money that a seat in Holyrood could provide so they turn a blind eye to the pervasive corruption that seeps into a party that has been in power for way too long & which simply dismisses an opposition because it is feeble & hopelessly outgunned.

    That there are supporters who cannot see the Orwellian development of the SNP executive is astonishing since there are now many clear examples of how Sturgeon & her inner circle have attempted to pervert justice, mask even basic operating processes & make it extremely difficult for anyone to get some transparency about how this government actually works.

    You do have to admire Sturgeon for her brass neck though & her double act – a conjuring trick to fool a willing electorate while at the same time cementing her kinky cabinet as the all powerful national executive.

    Scotland desperately needs an effective opposition so that these people can finally be held accountable. Unfortunately I cannot see that happening any sooner than I can see our country becoming independent.

    We’ve done a 180 degree turn, haven’t we & even now, some still can’t see it?

  114. Breeks says:

    brian lucey says:
    24 September, 2020 at 8:05 am
    Would it not be easier for this blog to rename itself as snpbad?

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… would be hard to differentiate between a paid black ops operation…

    So says Brian Lucey, who walks past a criminal conspiracy backed by the State, fabricated to see an innocent man sent to prison, and his supporters jailed for trying to defend him. But our Brian sees nothing, move along everybody, nothing to see, and thus, presumably wouldn’t recognise a paid black ops operation if he tripped over one.

  115. deerhill says:

    Ms. Oswald is my MSP.

    I think it will be “None of the Above” on the ballot paper, unless another Indy party is in operation.

  116. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Anyone else not notice the cameraman in the picture of NS and KO (second from top)?

    Just goes to show – sometimes things are in plain view but we just don’t see them!

    And there endeth Thought For The Day.


  117. Bob Mack says:

    The mentality I see in here is like many areas in Glasgow where I worked many years. Some areas are totally feral where the law does not apply. More than 10 people may witness an act of violence yet nobody saw anything because they don’t want to “grass” on the people who did it.

    It’s not just self preservatio from retribution. It’s become a way of living. It’s what they know and follow.

    I suppose anything becomes acceptable if you have that mindset. I see that same mindset on here. Determined to ignore what is right and just to accept the law of the street.

    Those with fine words who are no better than the lowest common denominator.

  118. deerhill says:

    Sorry,correction “MP”

  119. robertknight says:

    @brian lucey

    Provided your pathological myopia doesn’t prevent it, you’ll see on closer inspection that it’s a case of current SNP “Leadership” Bad. It’s quite straightforward to distinguish between the Party and the Leadership, so long as you have the intelligence and willingness to do so.

  120. SOG says:

    @ brian
    A fish rots from the head may or may not be true, but it seems apt.

  121. Republicofscotland says:

    SNP activist wants to stand against the SNP’s Ash Denham in Edinburgh East. Mr Ahmed, said she (Denham) wasn’t pushing for Scottish independence.

    If only more Mr Ahmed’s came forward we might actually get somewhere on the indy front.

  122. Christian Schmidt says:

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    For a more thorough discussion of the difficulty of disciplining the boss see Plato, it is not exactly a new issue…

  123. Willsie says:

    Or what of the current candidate selection process.

    It is doubtful if the SNP’s current candidate selection process would stand up to challenge.

    By dubious process the NEC on 30th July 2020 changed the selection rules. The changes however may well be unconstitutional Moreover, in changing the rules this was never properly promulgated to members. Rather they were hosted hidden away on a link buried in an obscure location the party website weeks later.

    So dodgy change of rules and then a failure to give notice. Sound familiar, springing change , keeping folks in the dark.

    But it doesn’t end there.

    Contained within the rules was a cut off date for ‘ approved ‘ candidates to make application for selection. With a cut off date being set for the 14th September, the mischief of only changing the rules and then not promulgating the cut off timescale and selection process dates has potentially restricted the number of candidates coming forward. And not just that, the new rules in the first drop dead date make it clear that only ‘ approved ‘ candidates can apply up to the 14 th September 2021.

    Again an attempt to rig the number of applicants coming forward, giving rise now to the situation where through pressure from various sources unapproved candidates are now being vetted.

    But if you think the stench ends there it doesn’t. Rules and processes for the selection of regional candidates are still to be advised. And again it doesn’t take too much imagination to see that with the NEC or should I say NEC sub committees, to implement the insertion of candidates on grounds ranging from sexual equality, to minority interest, to BAME, to under represented disability interest individuals that the process of regional seat candidate selection is another sham process in the hands of a few.

    All in all a total and utter disfigurement of democratic process designed to rig candidate selection, put into place by the coterie of control.

    As the attempt to jail a 65 year old Alex Salmond for the rest of his life leaving his 83 year old wife in extremis was utterly vile and vicious. But the blocking of Joanna Cherry, or the expulsion of committed nationalists like Grousebeater on trumped up woke charges, or the immediate star chamber suspension of people like Michelle Thomson, or the leaking of party lists, the disfigurement of democracy goes on.

    Anyway, it’s all coming out thankfully with the members and the wider movement now realising the extent of what has been going on. Sturgeon, Murrell, Robertson et al might have thought they had it the party stitched up, but they are living on borrowed time.

    We need to take back our party. We can take our party back. We can secure independence. Our future is there if we take it! It is achievable and it can be done.

  124. Breastplate says:

    My opinion has always been that I don’t care if the Devil himself gets us independence as that is the number 1 priority. So it doesn’t matter to me at least, who is in charge of the SNP.

    The difference of opinion between independence supporters seems to be where the hierarchy of the SNP is on a spectrum of trying they’re utmost for independence, through to actively working against independence.

    I think we all know what end of the spectrum the SNP should be on. That we are having discussions, arguments or debates about it should be alarming in itself.

  125. Polly says:

    @ Al-Stuart

    When I first heard about that case you mention I wondered too if the judgement on whether WhatsApp was considered private communication or not might be useful in the case of the SNP group. Reading some of the judgement now though I’m doubtful since so much seemed to hinge on their being police officers who should uphold the trust of the public to be able to police by consent. I don’t know if politicians could have the same consideration since folk voluntarily vote for them to be in power. It’s an interesting case though.

  126. Graeme says:

    I think we all know what end of the spectrum the SNP should be on. That we are having discussions, arguments or debates about it should be alarming in itself.


    As is “SNP Members For Indy”, that’s how far down the rabbit hole They’ve taken us

  127. Big Jock says:

    How do you know when there is an independence referendum coming?

    The Tories and other unionists start saying they are victims of Cybernat abuse. Yesterday it was poor wee Wullie Rennie, today it is Annie Wells.

    Lets look at the hard evidence.

    Riots in George Square – Unionists
    Orange Walk- Unionists
    Sectarian and anti Scottish singing – Rangers fans.
    Bigots running councils – Tories

    It’s desperation when the bigots blame the victims of bigotry. British fundamentalism is at the heart of unionism. That means by default you have to hate your own country , or worse deny it exists.

    Britain is not a country. Scotland is a country. We all live in Scotland whether you are unionist or nationalist. However some people have a problem with the very idea of Scotland as a nation.

    These people are not Scots.

  128. Muscleguy says:

    @El Gordo

    Far be it for me to defend Sturgeon, but the process of hygeinic hand washing is only finished when your hands are PROPERLY dry. I usually swipe the hand drying twice as well since the first period rarely dries my hands properly.

    If more people dried their hands fully after using the toilet or during this pandemic or flu season or norovirus (7 viral particles enough for an infection) we would all be much healthier and a lot of elderly people would stil be with us.

    I repeat you have not properly washed your hands until they are DRY.

  129. Breastplate says:

    Agreed Graeme, it’s not a good position to be in.

  130. Polly says:

    @ Sandy and others

    ‘There are posters on here who seem to have a personal vendetta against Nicola & her husband.
    This is not a kangaroo court blog, is it.’

    What about the number within SNP who obviously have a vendetta, personal or otherwise, against Salmond who put him into a real court of law? You are all willing to give them a free pass without even questioning why they did it or how that damaged the cause of independence? I’d give more credence to any criticism you make about anyone here if you acknowledged and called out the damage they had done – for it is that damage we complain about – but you’re not even trying to criticise both sides. Nor are you trying to think of ways to bring both sides together. You’re unhappy there’s division in the Yes camp but willing to say all the blame lies with those who didn’t start it.

  131. Ronald Fraser says:

    Five people, out of a UK population of over 65 million, are in total control of every move we make.


    Have a wee think about that for a second.

    All this bullshit about us living in the greatest democracy in the World is just that,,, Bullshit.

  132. Fionan says:

    Well said, Polly! So many of Sturgeon’s sheeples quick to criticise those of us who are horrified by the machinations of Sturgeon and Murrell to destroy an innocent man, one who put them where they are now at the very top of the snp/scotgov hierarchy. Yet in the midst of their squeals about dividing the Yes movement and damaging the independence vote, they are so quick to forget under whose watch, under whose behaviours, attitudes and ‘wise words’ this has all happened – Sturgeon herself. She was bequeathed a party that was full of vitality, over 120,000 members, raring to go, and singlehandedly she has brought about many many resignations, splits and anger and frustration and negativity even among lifelong supporters of indy and the snp as was. And as already said here, none of her staunch followers have ever tried to explain why she lied publically about her meetings re the Salmond court case, why she made excuses not to appear, why her government is refusing to hand over material to the enquiry without so much redaction that it is useless as evidence and so on. Why after promising us transparency, has she supplied only murkiness and a slavish devotion to that S30 which will never bring about independence? Why has she so rarely even mentioned the very word ‘independence’? Why could she not do the decent thing and congratulate Salmond and apologise to him? And so much more! That refusal to debate or even to examine all these anomalies and that tangled web of deceit that we can all see (largely thanks to Stu’s efforts and those of other bloggers to reveal what has been and is being hidden from us) is cognitive dissonance.

  133. Big Jock says:

    Sandy – The kangaroo court you refer to actually exists in the SNP.

    Murrell had a problem with Salmond , so he wanted him off the scene. The evidence is all there, if you care to take your rose tinted specs off. It might be unpalatable , but we can’t ignore the elephant in the room.

    Murrell is a very divisive and devious character. I do believe he is running strategy to his own tune, and I believe he is a bad influence on Nicola. So far the Murrells have wasted 6 years of opportunity.

    They have spent a lot of that time on internal squabbles and personal vendettas.

    I am coming round to the fact that to get rid of Sturgeon right now would be counter productive. That’s not because I think she is our freedom fighter. I believe that the 6 or 7% who have moved to independence, are a direct result of her steady pair of hands in the crisis.

    Murrell just needs to step down and avoid the dirty battle that is surely coming. If he really believes in independence then he needs to fall on his sword.

    Sturgeon will guide us to 2021. If she doesn’t deliver then she is toast. However I truly believe with Murrell out of the way , strategy will change.

    I absolutely blame him for everything. He is the CEO, it’s all on his head , whoever he is or whoever he is working for.

  134. Ottomanboi says:

    Clear Covid-19 from the scene and then perhaps political life might return to some form of normality.
    As long as governments strait jacket civil life with threats and fears of the ‘invisible enemy’ sane and rational social discourse is suppressed under a miasma of irrational panic.
    Leadership involves risk taking. A risk worth the taking is to lift all restrictions and allow individuals to decide for themselves whether they isolate or not. Individuals know their state of health better than the state. Comorbidity is the key, if other conditions are present then catching even the common cold variety of coronavirus could be concerning.
    The Covid-19 stats, even if accurate, do not merit panic. There have been more severe pandemics since 2000 which have gone without infringements to civil liberties. What has emerged from this event has little bearing on the the virus per se but speaks volumes on the readiness of governments and authorities to seek in ‘the science’ an infallibility that is not there and use oppressive diktat to enforce their gullible scientism. The scientifically illiterate, number fetishizing, hot-headed scribblings in the media have compounded the panic process.
    Humans are rational beings. Our reason must ultimately overcome primitive fear, however induced.

  135. kapelmeister says:

    The number of full-time SNP employees cannot be very high. SPADS are government employed and nothing to do with party business. Likewise, SNP parliamentarians’ staff, work for the MP or MSP and are not party staff per se.

    As I say, the number of SNP staff can’t be high, and most of them work at party HQ in Edinburgh. In other words, in the same building as Murrell.

    Why then does the SNP need a Chief Operating Officer? It is just a pretentious aping of corporate job titles. A large multi-national company must need a COO to report to the CEO. A political party in a small country, even if it’s that country’s largest, does not need such a chain of command. And the post, like Murrell’s, has an undisclosed salary.

    More money just pissed up the wall instead of being set aside in an indyref fund.

  136. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “@grouse beater

    you are not an snp member.”

    He was, then he got thrown out on spurious grounds. You’re on thin ice here. Watch yourself.

  137. Sarah says:

    @ Graeme at 10.05: snpmembers4indy only has 215 members at the minute and that includes me and 4 friends! Plus some very well known indy movers and shakers.

    Come on, folks. If you want change, show you do!

  138. leither says:


    then why did GB post this?

    Grouse Beater says:
    I was a lapsed member; SNP without jurisdiction over a private citizen.

    how can he get thrown out if he wasnt a member????

  139. leither says:

    fine Stu,

    I dont know him from adam, i just pointed out that he himself said he had let his membership lapse only 5 mins ago.

    what else am I to think, suppose, assume, believe?

  140. leither says:

    Any of these sources acceptable to you?




  141. LeggyPeggy says:

    Regarding the above post from Kenny McAskill and I thank him for the post . I’ve been going back and reading the correspondence between the committee and Peter Murrell .

    First letter from the committee to Peter Murrell asking for written evidence ,

    And the reply from Peter Murrell to the committee , In his reply I have never read a letter with so much arrogance and disrespect shown to someone , he addresses it as Dear Linda , he doesn’t even show respect to Linda Fabiani as head of the committee .

  142. Joe says:

    RE: Covid

    If you are one of those who is skeptical of the motivation behind the authorities handling and measures i’d suggest you get expanding your circle of like minded people offline. Make sure friends and family know where you stand and try to be supportive to people finding their courage.

    If speaking out makes you feel scared, which is perfectly normal, then think of those who are also quiet and too scared to speak who might find some more strength in your example.

  143. Grouse Beater says:

    “How can he get thrown out if he wasnt a member????” Leither

    That’s the least of it, but I shall answer your blood-minded arrogance.

    Why was a non-member thrown out? Because there are people given power in the SNP who are exactly like you. They use neo-fascist language to condemn others outright that they “do not know from Adam”. Deadheads, they do no homework, they avoid detail, are crap at administration, and click their heels to instruction from the party.

    They fear dissent, view it a threat to their iffy perceived status, their principles and sense of fair play lost somewhere in their need to be seen as good, loyal servants of the party. You know it as power without responsibility, including organising show trials. That is not the Scotland I work to create.

    All political parties lapse into loathing and bouts of corruption at some point or other. When that happens they attract people like you, running around daubing crosses in red paint on doors.

    Here is my essay on fascism. Memorise it.:

  144. Robert Graham says:

    This comment is definitely off Topic , The National , anyone tempted to post a link , Please don’t this usless bloody website , a website that does everything to stop anyone actually reading any of the articles published , when you do get to actually read a article this is after countless pop ups and invitations to subscribe , when I do try to subscribe it’s says this account is blocked , I guess it was blocked because I kept questioning them about allowing the same demented Unionists to post comments day after day without censor , I questioned if this was a editorial decision to increase traffic to the site , so I was permanently blocked , well fk them they ain’t that good anyway
    So please for everyone who can’t or won’t subscribe to the National a brief description would be helpful because the Nationals site is bloody usless .

  145. mr thms says:

    Breastplate @ 9:53 am

    “My opinion has always been that I don’t care if the Devil himself gets us independence as that is the number 1 priority. So it doesn’t matter to me at least, who is in charge of the SNP.”

    It should matter.

    The unionist parties all have plans for a federal UK.

    Some in the SNP could live with federalism or Home Rule.

    Kenny MacAskill has written in support of federalism in the past, and when Alex Salmond was First Minister there was a consultation to determine if voters favoured a second question on more Holyrood powers.

    There was no second question, but despite the result, Holyrood did gain more powers.

    The Scotland Act 2016 that gave Scotland more powers received Royal Assent just weeks before the EU referendum

    I suspect next crossroad is not far away and depending on who is First Minister at the time, will determine Scotland’s fate as an independent country, or as a partly sovereign state like the German Landers, or as a part of the United States of Great Britain and Northern Ireland..

  146. Robert Graham says:

    Again o/t
    Alex’s show on RT the most comprehensive description and explanation of the state of play with the current virus outbreak I have seen recently, clear precise information of the way ahead with no political spin or lies i.e. A Bullshit free zone ,
    Worth a watch

  147. Lochside says:

    ‘Big Jock’ at 10.39 am…..totally agree with you. The movement must remain united. But to do so Murrell’s head must roll. The core ‘Real SNP’ must root out the wokist tendency and give Sturgeon notice that she delivers a Declaration of Independence Plebiscite asap or else she follows her husband toute suite rather than later. Afterwards, we can stop all the virtue signalling pish and demand a root and branch reform of the legal system; civil service; and broadcasting in Scotland i.e. indigenous control.

  148. Pete says:

    Those who are like minded need to get together and simply defy all the rules and regulations.
    This Sunday we are visitIng my son and daughter in law for dinner.
    Today my wife is off on a car trip with my daughter.
    Tomorrow my wife is off with a friend by car together to the Gyle shopping centre.
    Unfortunately, to gain entry they will require to muzzle up but that is a small price.
    It’s up to the individual. If they feel afraid, then, fair enough, follow the rules.
    If they value freedom, then just do your own thing and defy the authorities.
    All quite simple

  149. Beaker says:

    @Grouse Beater says:
    24 September, 2020 at 11:51 am
    “All political parties lapse into loathing and bouts of corruption at some point or other. When that happens they attract people like you, running around daubing crosses in red paint on doors.”

    That should be nailed above the entrance to the Scot Parliament. Remind our elected representatives that we are their first priority, not their party.

  150. LeggyPeggy says:

    Me @ 10.28 am

    Just to add to my previous post , I didn’t want to post too many links in it ,

    The committee had to write to Peter Murrell again on 9th September asking for further written evidence but no reply from him is showing in the written correspondence page yet , I wonder if he’s even given a reply yet .

    I hope Peter Murrell is called shortly to give evidence to the committee in person as the longer that this sordid matter goes on for it’s more damaging for everyone involved in this and especially more so the hatred that has been shown towards Alex Salmond who they were desperate to put in prison if all involved had succeeded in their conspiracy . Peter Murrell must resign and go immediately from his position .

    As an Snp voter for 40 years I have never felt so much disappointment in their disgusting behaviour and arrogance shown by the party in all the years I’ve voted for them

  151. Vronsky says:

    Sorry to go against the tide, but Michelle’s lawyer was a crook. If she knew that then she was just as bad. If she didn’t know that, she must be unbelievably stupid.

  152. Hatuey says:

    Anyone that thinks this all goes away with the resignation of Mr Murrell is bananas.

    We know there’s no excuse or reasonable explanation for what’s gone on because with the press so friendly towards Sturgeon we would have heard about it by now; it’d be plastered everywhere.

    All I can hear is nothing. It’s deafening.

  153. Bob Mack says:

    @Grouse Beater,

    Could not agree,,,,,,,,more. Thank you.

  154. Balaaargh says:


    “There have been more severe pandemics since 2000 which have gone without infringements to civil liberties.”

    Name one.

    SARS? 8,000 cases globally.
    Bird flu? Not even close.
    Swine flu? 18,000 deaths – over 12,000 in the US. The pandemic was declared over after 3 months.
    MERS? Didn’t even make it to pandemic status

    “Humans are rational beings.”

    Tell that to the parents of the students at Abertay university.

    How often are you washing your hands?

  155. Polly says:

    @ Vronsky

    ‘Michelle’s lawyer was a crook’

    Her solicitor may have been. I bought a house from a solicitor – does that make me a crook? She and other people used that solicitor does that make all of them crooks too?

    That’s pretty thin gruel. Stop smearing people by association.

  156. Bob W says:

    @Robert Graham

    I use this link, bypassing their website.

  157. Balaaargh says:

    Edit: Glasgow uni, not Abertay.

  158. gullaneno4 says:

    Richard Leanora. Is absolutely and totally clueless. [watching FMQ at the mo]

    I believe that SLab will shortly break in two with an independence faction coming out of the remnants [That’s a 5 aside game now]

  159. Clydebuilt says:

    The BBC’s radio station in Scotland pulled the plug on FMQ’s at 12.35, 15 minutes after it started Richard Leonard had only asked one question. Davidson asked only 2 questions, last week it was 4 or 5.

    As usual the FM was wiping the floor with them. Must’ve been an “Editorial Decision”

  160. Andy Ellis says:


    As the estimable Mr Wardell has already given what passes fro your argument a richly deserved fisking, I will confine myself to venturing that it is largely because of unthinking no-goodnicks like yourself that the SNP, and hence the wider movement, is in the political twilight zone.

    The authoritarian and deeply regressive slant in the SNP leadership which has been repeatedly laid bare over the past few years demonstrates to any reasonable person that the party can’t be trusted.

    It isn’t up to those who have been traduced by the party, or those who have left in disgust due to its shameful behaviour, to fix it. Only the members can do that. Sadly it has become apparent that they have neither the will nor the means to do so.

    Independence will not be delivered by this bunch of charlatans, and even if it were looking likely I’d have deep misgivings about having them anywhere near power once it happens. A huge plus of independence will be watching the SNP being forced to get real and share power as it realises that a large part of its support base has no particular attachment to the party per se, they just see it as a conduit to indy.

  161. Big Jock says:

    I actually find it hard to believe that a member of the SNP, doesn’t know about the Grouse Beater witch hunt.

    I mean seriously. If you don’t know the basics, please don’t come on this forum with your ignorant sounbites. Do some feckin research.

    As for Murrell. The CEO post was invented for this shadowy character. It didn’t exist so he invented it. His bio indicates his only other job was making SNP stationary. A kind of David Brent charachter with less hair.

    Honestly he just appears out of the shadows. Marries Nicola, the future FM. Then he is the richest man in the movement. Yet he is a complete failure.

    A thin skinned power hungry nobody.

  162. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Robert Graham 11.53am

    Bookmark this.

  163. Ross says:

    Sturgeon, Murrell, Yusaf, Swinney, Robertson – they all stood up and fought politically in 2011-2014 for Scottish independence against a corrupt and biased media. They didn’t need to do that, they are all clever people that could get a comfy job somewhere else. We already have the proof they want independence. They may take a different view on how to get there: to realise it. Some may have conspired against Salmond- I’m not convinced of that – but there are people saying Murrell is a Brit plant on here. Get a grip. On the basis of what? Even taking the accusation that he conspired to do Salmond down at face value- how does that help unionism? Unionism hasn’t faltered because of a resurgent Salmond, it’s because of organic generational shifts, Sturgeon competency and Brexit.

    Some people on here hate Nicola Sturgeon but she’s the biggest asset of the movement amongst the population. Take issue with the route if you wish. Perhaps unionists do prefer her approach right now but their cause is still a dying breed. It’s possible to be both at once.

  164. Robert Graham says:

    Vronsky @12:15

    Aye well if only Life was as black and White eh ,

    Most crooks and Con Artists cover their tracks Lying is probably the most difficult to discover , the sense of betrayal from a once trusted working business partner can be very difficult to uncover and more importantly difficult to personally comprehend and come to terms with,

    As for being stupid well you could count everyone who has ever been fiddled by Liars and con artists every victim comes under that wide ranging comment ,

    Why single out the former MP in question ,is she to judged by a different criteria from the rest of the population , or is it because she happens to be a SNP MP or was a MP ,If this is the basis of your comment ? Come Clean don’t attempt to disguise your comment.

    Anyone could have been a Victim in this particular situation , don’t forget the Daily Record were at the centre of this attempt to smear her , she was under suspicion for the best part of a Year until all investigations were dropped , the fact she wasn’t ever actually changed raises suspicions of a political stitch up the same as Alex, This English establishment are doing this every single day

  165. MaggieC says:

    Vronsky @ 12.12 pm

    You shouldn’t even go down that road as there never was an investigation by Police Scotland about Michelle Thomson as the Falkirk herald had to give a retraction and an apology for saying that there had been an investigation as link posted below ,

    The way the Snp treated Michelle and Grouse beater was disgusting .

  166. Polly says:

    @ leither

    ‘do you have a link to the essay?
    that way we can decide ourselves’

    ‘you wrote an article, on a blog that no one reads, and then fell out with the GMB and slab.
    how is this anything to do with the snp?’

    You know when you first returned though I complained about the smoke bombs you liked to throw I saw you could make good points even when I disagreed with them and thought you a decent guy overall. You’ve not been making good points or encouraging folk to change their minds recently though and now with those two comments I’m not sure you’re a good guy at all. Your first is all but saying the essay must be anti Semitic or you’d have posted it, in the second you include a nasty comment about his blog and the only site you believe is the antisemitism site.

    And all that attempt you make at continued smearing of a person already smeared by your beloved SNP. Your defence of them leads you to be as bad as the worst in that party are. I had thought you seemed better than that.

  167. Robert Graham says:

    cynicalHighlander @ 12:52
    Thanks for the help and the Link
    Works Perfectly
    Thanks again

  168. susanXX says:

    That’ll be a happy day for me Andy Ellis.

  169. Cag-does-thinking says:

    I did say in one of my other comments that sometimes you have to take a stand for what is right by your values. I think we will see in the coming days just who is a sheep and who is a lion.

    The leadership can’t ignore this kind of pressure without taking action, not to do so makes them appear weak and guilty and if they have any leadership qualities they will see something has to be done.

    The other unsolved part of this is the lack of action by the legal justice system to react to a potential misuse of the justice system at great expense and potentially bringing it into disrepute.

    The more people who have a public profile who ask what is going on the more the clamour will alert the rest of the party that something is very wrong and needs attention.

  170. Clydebuilt says:

    It’s hard to believe that Murrell was niave enough to send that Whatsapp messsge encouraging Police action against AS.
    Was it sent with the intent of being leaked after AS. is jailed, the hope being to damage Sturgeon.

    Then both leaders are removed from the Independence movement.

  171. susanXX says:

    Apparently an SNP MP who said in Westminster that the GRA Reform Bill would be passed before the new parliament begins. They just don’t know when to stop digging, do they.

  172. leither says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    24 September, 2020 at 11:51 am
    “How can he get thrown out if he wasnt a member????” Leither

    I shall answer your blood-minded arrogance.

    Why was a non-member thrown out?

    Because there are people given power in the SNP who are exactly like you.

    So the snp didnt throw you out. you werent a member.

    If you arnt a member, how is it any of their business?

  173. Joe says:


    I wouldn’t put it in such strong terms. While it might be for some to outright rebel its also important for mental health and morale simply to know that there are others in your real community who share your doubts and fears.

    Again – not everyone is a fire breather rebel. But there are plenty who will give quiet support and encouragement, and if the time comes that the tyranny truly comes down then they will be in a much better position to step up also.

  174. Polly says:

    @ Willsie

    ‘Again an attempt to rig the number of applicants coming forward, giving rise now to the situation where through pressure from various sources unapproved candidates are now being vetted.’

    I’m not sure I understand this. I thought they had to be approved as candidates before being vetted. Do you know or can you name who the unapproved ones are and have any of that type been vetted?

  175. MaggieC says:

    Another excellent column from Kenny McAskill this time in the Scotsman ,

    “ Alex Salmond inquiry , Msps must be robust in their search for the truth “ .

  176. leither says:

    some of my best friends arent members of the SNP….

  177. leither says:

    memorise it, i was amazed i didnt fall asleep while reading it….

    you have a beef with labour and the trade unions.

    good for you.

  178. Stephen Welsh says:

    Alf Baird @ 9:59 pm

    Funny, I got the exact same email from him today 😉

  179. Bob Mack says:


    No. You just cannot be this dim. It’s impossible.

    Here you are trying to rubbish Grouse Heater with not a word on the plan to jail an innocent political opponent.

    Did you actually read Grouse Beaters article? You couldn’t have done or you would never ,ever try to come back at him the way you did. Cretinous..

  180. MaggieC says:

    Re Snp membership , when your membership expires on the renewal date and you don’t renew it on or by that date , your membership is classed as lapsed for three months and if you renew it within those three months your membership goes back to its original due date as if you had renewed it on the original due date .

  181. leither says:


    with those two comments I’m not sure you’re a good guy at all. Your first is all but saying the essay must be anti Semitic or you’d have posted it, in the second you include a nasty comment about his blog and the only site you believe is the antisemitism site.

    i’ve never even read any of his essaies, I know he had a beef with a trade union, what about i have no idea, beyond that i dunno who he is, i merely pointed out that if he wasnt a member of the snp, why is he greetin’ to them?

  182. crazycat says:

    @ ottomanboi at 8.34

    Like many others over the years, you are mis-representing the actions of Knut Sweinsson.

    He knew perfectly well that he had no power over the tide; he did what he did to demonstrate to his followers that he was not all-powerful as they had assumed. They were the delusional ones, not he.

  183. leither says:

    MaggieC says:
    24 September, 2020 at 1:52 pm
    Re Snp membership ,

    geezo, so he was a member? make yer mind up

  184. leither says:

    Bob Mack says:
    Here you are trying to rubbish Grouse Heater

    i’m not, i’m merely asking why if he wasnt/isnt a member, why has he got a beef with the snp?

    whats it got to do with them?

  185. Bob Mack says:


    I’ve figured out we are using the wrong appproach with you and others.

    Of course we should before stating anything write “hear and obey”. Then you would listen. Our mistake.

    This site is predominantly for thinkers, not clones or indoctrinated accolytes unfortunately. Sorry.

  186. Bob Mack says:


    You don’t get it do you? Member of not he is ENTITLED to have a beef with anybody he likes. That is exactly what he is telling you. Stop him having his beef and you become ignorant intolerant and you have paved the road to stop others having a beef with the SNP.

    I wonder who does that sort of thing ? Mmmm?

  187. You know, The National is funny. I wonder how they square printing articles about the alphabet curs complaining about their sorry self-imposed lot, with articles demanding an investigation into a man police-agitating on their behalf. Does make you wonder sometimes what their agenda is.

  188. Bob Mack says:

    Please stop criticising the Tories unless you are a member

    The same applies to Labour and the Lib Dems.

    Members only criticism will be accepted by Leither.

    Head off desk!!!

  189. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @leither –

    A lot of us sussed who you are yonks ago.

    Some of your best friends comment on WGD so why don’t you pop over there for a few months and gie’s peace?

  190. leither says:

    Bob Mack

    i’m sure someone somewhere understands your gibberish, but i dont.

    grouse heater can have a beef with anyone he likes. good on him.

    but if he aint a member it is none of the snp’s business.

  191. stonefree says:

    @ Robert Graham at 11:53 am
    The National, It’s a bugger to get rid of the ads and pop-ups especially with Chrome.
    Plus it seems to have a straight to bin policy, if you say something anti-wokie, a bit like the herald had years ago best described as a mad,mental unionist

  192. leither says:

    Bob Mack

    he can criticise anyone he likes.

    i doubt he is a member of the tory party either but by the same logic, why isnt he asking boris to intervene in his beef?

  193. leither says:

    in other news

    prince harry insults trump,

    trumpists demand nicola fires prince harry.

  194. ElGordo says:


    I had hoped it was obvious that the towel dispenser fable was sarcasm directed at the perpetual nay sayers.

    Despite this, alas, for some the cry went up:

    “Sturgeons not an independencer,
    She can’t use a towel dispenser.”

  195. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:



    I must admit I’m quite surprised you haven’t noticed that my patience for that sort of snotty dickery is pretty much nil these days, especially when I’ve just warned someone. I hope you enjoy the pre-moderation list.

  196. Bob Mack says:


    Injustice done to one, is potential injustice done to all.

    The SNP decreed he was anti semitic, not too long before they tried to put Alex Salmond in jail for nothing with quite a concerted effort.

    Is this ringing a bell yet?

  197. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Ian B

    With luck he’ll take Cameron Brodie with him? 🙂

  198. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Bob Mack

    Well said. It’s interesting that a party which self identifies as a progressive and left of centre social democratic movement, which likes to conjure rosy visions of a post independence Scandinavian style “better nation” is actually characterised by its crypto Soviet leadership style and Byzantine organisational structures.

    So much for openness, visibility and being accountable to their members!

    Particularly given Gareth’s prognosis, it would be good to think that some of the adults in the room like Kenny, Joanna Cherry and others would prevail upon the party to issue a public apology to him for his shoddy treatment. The fact that it is vanishingly unlikely to do so only emphasises its profound institutional malaise.

  199. Polly says:

    @ leither

    ‘ i merely pointed out that if he wasnt a member of the snp’

    No you did far more than that. As I said before your first challenge was why hadn’t he posted the essay so we could all decide if it was antisemitic – insinuating it must be or he would have, your second was including the comment his blog was little read, which is just a nasty dig to add.

    And worse you did both those without reading his essay first to find out who he might be or what he wrote. Then you compound it by the insult you’re amazed you didn’t fall asleep reading it. Your posts just keep showing you in a worse light.

    I know you’re intelligent and you seemed at times to have a good sense of humour. Why not apply those to changing minds here? The my friend is…. and similar snide comments are neither clever, humorous or winning anyone to your cause. I would say do better, but can you? Will you?

  200. Breastplate says:

    Mr Thms,
    I think you have misunderstood me.
    I said that I didn’t care who delivers independence which is completely different from caring about who is in charge of the SNP.

  201. Christian Schmidt says:

    “(Any doubt there might have been over the document’s authenticity now resolved by the Crown instigating a police investigation into a leak.)”

    I love these. Reminds me of a journalist friend once asked a government spokesperson if a certain rumour was true, and got the response “Do not publish that, firstly because it isn’t true – but do not quote me – and secondly because it is illegal to publish government secrets”

  202. ElGordo says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    24 September, 2020 at 2:27 pm



    be more alert!

  203. ElGordo says:

    woops, i just, erm, kinda realised that wasn’t in response to my post.

  204. Cuilean says:

    If you were the Mi5 chief and you wanted to plant a spook in the SNP, you’d want someone who looked quite innocuous and liked to blend into the wallpaper, someone who worked behind the green curtain and never stepped out onto the main stage. Someone who looked as soft as the Pillsbury Doughboy’s dad, but hid a ruthless self-regard. Someone as close to the SNP’s leader as it is possible to be….

    Ladies & gents, I give you Peter Murrell.

    Flight of fancy? Who knows? But it would explain everything I’ve wondered about, that was going on within the SNP, since 19 09 2014.

  205. twathater says:

    To grousebeater and bob mack just to let you know LEITHER is our esteemed phoenix Schrodingers Cat under WOS but he still likes his old monicker on WGD where he can blend in, but on WOS he likes to hide behind his NEW leither monicker to be able to post his normal snide disruptive comments because Stuart saw through his duplicity, and BTW Polly you had already sussed him

  206. Grouse Beater says:

    “Grouse Beater … just to let you know LEITHER is our esteemed phoenix Schrodinger’s Cat.”

    Bi-polar, passive-aggressive, ego-centric, wasting reader’s time.

  207. Bob Mack says:

    @Grouse Beater,

    Your too kind to him.

  208. Gerry Fisher says:

    I havent read this blog for some time now – “first delete territory”
    BUT have just gone through it and am appalled
    Having existed in the Party (and elected “an Honorary Life member” by the NEC in 2014 – without such membership not appearing in the C&R at that time) Ihave been aware of being on the “black list” of the Party’s conference chair and NEC (those names who will not be called to speak unless it cannot be avoided) – which is why I normally choose a point of Order or the Direct Negative, thereby giving the PTB the wee joke jibe as a personal attack opening.

    That chair was created by Alex and chosen by him – originally as Derek MsKay, who once in an honest (uncharactaristic) admitted to me that that was the case. But the Business Convener chosen by Alex or Nicola has been the major actor since in setting the Party under the control of the cabinet who are chosen by the leader, who, under the Party’ rules becomes the designated First Minister

    For the last ten years I have been fighting to reverse the takeover of the Party by the Eurounionist faction , and failing. The slogan “Independence in Europe” created at the 1988 Confereence by Jim and Alec (Neil)- and subsequently denounced by them – effectively said that the sovereignty of the Scottish people (independence) would continue if the Scottish nation was a member of the EU (or the EEC as it was in 1988). This is/was not true, in fact a lie – and that statement is not a judgment or an opinion, it is a fact, legal and constitutional And in that time I have been blocked, my right to speak constrained and personally vilified by those who are, for whatever reasons, committed to the European Project – the creation of a United States of Europe

    So I believe in Independence, the right of the scots to regain their rightb to create a renewed Nation,and their right to elect their own government which has all the powers that an independent nation has. And my political judgment was that those Scots would not use that power to give up that independence within the first few years of that renewed freedom. But I was clear that if there was a move to abandon that independence that nation would have members who would oppose that, even an SNP in defence of its fundamental Aim. But all the way I have had to deal with those who, for whatever reasons and with any means, want to equate Scottish independence and EU membership – “aren’t France and Germany independent” (not on any factual definition of independnt, passim), ” there are no independent states any more”(tell that to the Norwegians).

    And even once, when questioning my Msp, as to why it was correct to wish to leave the UKunion but not the Eurounion, I was given the fatuous (innacurste) reason “but the UK is an incorporate Union and the EU is not – rubbish.

    But to the current stramash – on the charges laid, by both sides, I currently believe my verdict would have to be “not proven” And that means a further trial with any further evidence whish can, and has to. be found extractedfrom any unwilling sources.

    I consider myself to be a friend of Nicola, irrespective of our political disagreements over many years – and I hope to remain so. I am believed to be an enemy of Alex, and certainly disagreed with him for years when I thought he wanted Independence so long as it was going to be a socialist, republican independence. We are never likely to become friends (both of us have “too much vitamin I in our systems”) but then neither of us choose our friendships on the basis of skin colour, religious beliefs or political beliefs either.

    I rewuse to believe that Nicola would “conspire” against Alex and find it difficult to encompass the idea of Peter as a long term MI5 mole (remembering my old friend Ken Fee’s suggestion of Jim Sillars as the candidate for that position). My belief of Alex’s position at the start was he was innocent until proved guilty, endangered by the movement of Metoo from the lady had to be heard to the lady must be believed. That belief had to lie with a jury not with the accused or the accuser.

    But I, for the position of our movement and cause, do think that statements must be made, evidence must be produced, within days. Damage is being done to the cause. I would implore those who still want us to be an independent nation and who have questions to answer, or allegations to be answered, to open up NOW

    And on the matter of the Party – I said to the June National Council in June after the first (minority) SNP government “the Party had to learn that it cannot control the government but the government must learn that it cannot control the Party” Alex decided that his government would and could try to do exactly that.

  209. Daisy Walker says:

    @ ‘Clydebuilt says:
    24 September, 2020 at 1:10 pm
    It’s hard to believe that Murrell was niave enough to send that Whatsapp messsge encouraging Police action against AS’.

    I’m not the most Social Media Savvie, however, as I understand it, the reason WhatsApp is popular is the text or images are only shown for a short period of time before automatically deleting, and the company does not keep a database record of the messages, so even a court order authorising them to disclose historic records would not recover anything.

    This then means the only potential ‘record’ of same is if one of the recipients takes a screenshot of it.

    Don’t quote me on it, but I think that is how it works.

  210. David Wardrope says:

    @ Daisy Walker 6:51pm

    I think you might be referring to Snapchat rather than WhatsApp. In hindsight, maybe all involved in the accusations of Alex wish they had chosen Snapchat instead…

  211. mogabee says:

    Good to see you still fighting Gerry. Totally agree with your last paragraph.

  212. mogabee says:

    Sorry, that should say *second last paragraph* 😀

  213. Balaaargh says:

    Wow! Talk of the devil and he’s sure to appear!

  214. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Britain is not a country. Scotland is a country. We all live in Scotland whether you are unionist or nationalist. However some people have a problem with the very idea of Scotland as a nation.

    These people are not Scots.”

    This is a bit harsh and denies yoons the right to the bio-neurological individuality of their identity. We are all products of the interaction between our biology and the surrounding culture (society, family, work, media…). This is the semiotic world we live in. So it’s only natural that some will perceive Britain is one nation, as that has been the intention of the methodological nationalism employed by the state to create the British identity. Some Scots just need a little more help at waking up from the cultural colonisation of their minds. Of course, some will never wake up to reality.

    The Self: Colonization in Psychology and Society

  215. CameronB Brodie says:

    Judging on the lengths necessary to defend the right to be a yoon, against the principles of international law and order, shouldn’t be to difficult a task though. Especially as contemporary British nationalism articulates an unhealthy social pathology that support misogynistic patriarchy, racism and authoritarianism.

    Journal of Nationalism, Memory & Language Politics | Volume 13: Issue 2, 27 Aug 2019
    Cultural Pluralism and Epistemic Injustice$002fjnmlp$002f13$002f2$002farticle-p152.xml

  216. Cringe says:

    So a resurrected GRA after May regardless of whether it appears in the manifesto or not?

  217. Al-Stuart says:


    Thankyou for the heads-up about the sleekit craphound oxymoronic Shroedinger’s Cat dishonestly creeping back in after being turfed out by the Boss.

    I thought the syntax of “Liether” had the aroma of rodent about it.

    As has been said, his snide disruptive comments are as welcome as a snake in a space suit. Hopefully, ShatCat/TheLier/PassiveAggressor or whatever the creepy ar$e calls himself will be given his jotters and shown the door by the Boss.

    The repetitive strain injury shatcat was causing my right index finger was getting better. Liartherer is becoming yet another waste of space in having to scroll past his thread infestation 15 to 40 times each day.

  218. Al-Stuart says:


    You sure gave a perfect précis of the ex-cat …

    LEITHER is our esteemed phoenix Schrodinger’s Cat.”

    Bi-polar, passive-aggressive, ego-centric, wasting reader’s time.

  219. maxxmacc says:

    When is the NS & Ms De-Groot story gonna break? Why are the journalists not filling the front pages with it? Or do they want her to stay in power as she poses no threat to the Union?

  220. holymacmoses says:

    Anyone who has any doubts about where Nicola Sturgeon stands in the Scottish Woke Brigade should now be in no doubt.
    The Sturgeon tweets:

    1/ A shout out to everyone – in all parties – standing for s/election to @ScotParl for the first time.
    You will face abuse on here – especially if you have the temerity to be a woman and/or from one of our BAME communities. But stand strong and don’t be silenced…

    2/ Bullies are cowards and that’s just as true on social media as it is in real life. By putting yourself forward, you are already showing more guts than any keyboard warrior hurling abuse.

    3/ And to my fellow ‘old timers’ in politics – we should have the backs of those who are not as inured to it as we are, and call out abuse on here when we see it, even when it’s from our own ‘side’. Disagreement is what democracy is all about – vile, toxic abuse is not.

    4/ And on the subject of calling it out even when it’s on my own ‘side’, disagree with @RhiannonV as much as you like, but leave out the misogynistic abuse.

    There was,and never has been,any mention of support for Joanna Cherry
    Absolute silence over Ms Salmond.

    S.Y.B is being built up

    All for her own glory

    I think it’s time … don’t you?

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