The Man Who Sold The Jerseys
We’ve used this video before, but it’s extra-apt today.
Humza Yousaf is played here by Morgan Freeman, the big plane carrying the bomb is the independence movement and Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer are in the chopper.
Because there’s no other rational way to interpret this:
What Yousaf’s just done is told the UK government that if it grants a referendum, it will lose, but that he has no way to make it grant a referendum. Ipso facto, if the UK government doesn’t want to lose Scotland, it should never grant a referendum, and its problem will be solved for all eternity.
Of course, he also tried to pretend that there was a way to make them, although it was one that by now only a tiny handful of Scotland’s most gullible peabrains still swallow.
Let’s even leave aside the fact that eight years of the worst UK governments in living memory have spectacularly failed to shift the independence dial, and that raising it to 60% or above any time in the next couple of decades is a fantasy somewhere on a par with believing in Santa Claus delivering magic beans on the back of a unicorn.
Because even if support in Scotland was at 70%, that’s still only 5.6% of the UK population, and to a UK government 5.6% of the population is a rounding error. They simply don’t care, and have no reason to. What’s the worst that could happen if they kept refusing? That they’d lose seats in Scotland? They lost all but three of 59 seats in 2015 and it made not the slightest difference to anything.
If 60% or 70% of the UK population were demanding another referendum on Scottish independence, that might have an impact, but that’s never going to happen. Most people in the UK want to keep the country intact, and their general view is that Scotland had its chance in 2014 and said no.
But even if there was a sudden inexplicable groundswell of support in England for another indyref it’d be very doubtful it’d actually lead to one. The latest polling shows that 60% of Britons want to rejoin the EU, but not a single mainstream party is standing on that manifesto.
Politicians hate referendums. There’s a reason the UK has only had a tiny handful in the last 50 years, and as a general rule one is only granted either as a last resort against the governing party’s internal factions or in the absolute confidence it’ll be won.
From the perspective of the UK government, neither of those even comes remotely close to applying in the case of Scotland. The SNP has nothing to threaten them with, and Humza Yousaf has just explicitly told them so.
Yes, he knows exactly what he is doing.
Why we need to go after decolonisation & liberation.
We’ll never be allowed to leave, ever.
Only way is to end the treaty. Plenty of other countries have done it.
HAW YOU! Don’t associate one of my favourite actors with that Useless name. Jeeeez! 🙂
It’s absolutely impossible to shift the dial on something you’re simultaneously telling people there is no route to achieving. The only thing you can do it piss everyone off and bore them to death. Which appears to be the unionist-SNP plan after the hectic Brexit years of actively undermining, hounding out, trying to jail etc the best pro indy fighters and splitting and trashing the movement.
They’ve killed the independence movement and neutered its political vehicle. Now just to relentlessly tell everyone it can’t happen, move on.
People power at this stage will involve removing the SNP and replacing them with new parties and a movement whose key target is Scottish politicians, inc SNP ones.
sow its *yuw *dee *ai, dhen.
Yusless / Freeman ?
Miscasting surely
It’s gonna take a fecking revolution! Can we get a renewal of the Auld allience?
I don’t think an upsurge in English support for Scottish independence would be inexplicable.
Currently the fiscal transfer to Scotland is £250m a week, or about £13bn a year. You could build a lot of hospitals with that money.
He really earns the epithet Yousless doesn’t he?
There’s no way out of this undemocratic prison of a union that goes through Westminster England will NEVER let Scotland go and until that sinks into the minds of most Scots we are going nowhere.
There’s no party at Holyrood that wants Scottish independence, oh there might be a few good SNP MSPs and even Green MSPs who genuinely want it but they are insignificant, the hierarchy of both parties are interested in Scottish independence and both parties have been widely infiltrated by the English establishments people.
“Last weekend, it was also revealed that the Stone of Destiny liberators were identified by moles placed in the nationalist movement by the British state, according to newly released government files.”
Willie McRae knew too much and he had to be silenced, any threat to the status quo (Scots leaving the union) will be dealt with in whatever fashion is required.
No real Scottish independence party would take up their seats in a foreign parliament (Westminster) where they are outnumbered and sidelined.
The Irish found a way out of being tied to Westminster, at first it wasn’t a popular route, yet brave Scotsmen flocked to the Irish cause, such as James Connelly, we could sure use those brave Scotsmen now for our own cause.
You want out of this union you must be able to declare independence without Westminster input and importantly defend it.
Humza Yousaf: transgenderist devolutionist grifting troughing First Minion.
Like Sturgeon Humza is an independence blocker. He know fine well that the Westminster Government will not grant a referendum. He also knows that Scottish MPs could with draw from Westminster and end the Union.
But like Sturgeon he is an Establishment pawn, a colonial administrator put into position to ensure that independence is stopped.And the SNP is now the vehicle for doing that since it has become London’s Trojan Horse.
Colonial administrations will never deliver independence. That is not their job and they will do whatever is needed to stop independence.
They will also conspire to destroy those whocluld and would strive to independence and the attempt to destroy politically Alex Salmond through the weaponization of the political aides, senior civil servants, the police and the Crown Office is testimony to that.
The British state play dirty, very dirty and nothing is off the menu when it comes to retaining a colony.
But colonies do break free and Scotland will too. And looking at the international scene it seems very likely that some really hard times are going to befall the good old UK. Ben Wallace some months back declared that before the end of the decade Britain would be at war. But in fact it is effectively at war just now and it is, as we can see all around us wreaking economic havoc.
It would be a tragedy for all if Britain’s secret war hots up. No one wins in major conflagration. But out of chaos comes change.
England’s difficulty was Ireland’s opportunity someone once said but not too long after the cessation of WW1 the Free Stae of Ireland emerged.
Not a happy beginning, with a bitter divided legacy to follow unresolved to this day. But Ireland did break free.
Let us trust we can too but that it can be done without the bitterness and conflict that the British do so well.
And in the meantime let us bin Humza and the SNP and take our movement back.
We’re only getting out the UK
When the English want to get out the UK
Which is why we need a party running Holyrood that is willing to piss-off Westminster on a regular basis
And hope there’s another Farage-type waiting to form a UKexit Party
O/T
Just tuned in to BB1 to get the final score of England v Oz women’s World Cup semi and England won 3-1. The English commentators were giddy at the result and of course mentioning 1966 and how fantastic it was to be watching England again secure a place in a w/c final on ENGLISH television. The statement is of course true but to hear it spoken of so confidently confirms the mindset of the English that television and indeed the UK is England.
Why is it still so difficult for so many Scots to understand, there will never be another Indy Referendum.
AS outsmarted PM Cameron to get one in 2014 and Cameron was naive and stupid enough to think the Colonial Masters would walk it with Indy lucky to get 25%.
No WM PM is ever going to take that risk again when AS very nearly pulled it off. WM only scraped through by judicious use of a captured media and every legal/illegal trick in the book.
So any new Ref. would be an open stable door for WM to manipulate it to get the required result. It’s a 100% dead-end.
As for the brain-dead who have run the SNP/SG since 2015 and have driven it down to ever deeper depths of incompetence and uselessness, just how thick do you have to be to still waffle on about getting one..!
The only consolation – and it’s a pitiful one , admittedly – will be seeing that appeasing buffoon slung-out on his arse , along with the parade of freaks , bottom-feeders ,plants n fainthearts that comprise ” his ” Party . They are fckn done .
What should happen , BEFORE the inevitable occurs , and to prevent the installation of the equally worthless Labour Party , is the unification of the non-SNP pro-Independence Parties/groupings , forming a bloc capable of providing a serious challenge/alternative to the existing captured-by-all-manner-of-shite ( non ) entities currently vying to fuck-up Scotland even more .
Time to put egos , ambitions and – even – * rehabilitation * aside , making the welfare of our country the highest , the only , priority .
To repeat …. I have high regard for Alex Salmond , but he will forever be associated with Sturgeon and the * failed * 2014 Ref + the sordid events that came after; this despite him being the victim of these events .
Even if the truth of the conspiracy against him was to come out , I think this would still be the case . It would for reasons of simple justice be excellent if the truth did – finally – emerge : would it enhance the prospects of Independence though ? I doubt it .
We need fresh faces , fresh impetus and fresh thinking . The same old same old won’t cut it .
If you don’t believe the people of Scotland are sovereign, you have no business leading an independence party.
Also: there’s something wrong with the link, Rev. When I try to share it on FB, there’s an article on Brexit coming up?
The way to bring change these days is to do it intelligently not by mindless confrontation. I would immediately distrust anyone proposing anything but peaceful non-violent methods. Such an idiot might not be an actual agent provocateur but they might as well be because the detrimental effects will be the same. You don’t need to throw your body ‘upon the gears’, govts love that kind of shit. That made sense when the US draft meant a decent possibility of getting killed or maimed. It doesn’t apply to Scotland now.
There’s a history available to be read by anyone with a reading age of 10 of how govts go about defeating protest movements of every shade and variety. If, as seems the case above, commentors are unaware of it or write as if they are unaware of it, then I would ask them kindly and with the greatest of respect to STFU and stop advocating failed methods from the comfort of their armchairs.
If support for independence has decoupled from support for the currently godawful SNP, then the movement has finally come of age. That fact alone is THE place to start strategizing the way forward.
Hoping that future “events” will somehow change everything, is about all the independence-movement has left to it, unfortunately.
Oh Well he’ll have done enough for Pakistan to ensure a Governorship
Hope Imran Khan remembers who Yousaf’s Chums where as he scrabbles for the funding he wants to give you
Not to worry folks. Just like Humza. Alba and Alex want to have a referendum as well. We do need fresh impetus and fresh thinking . salvo.scot liberation.scot. Are you to feart. yet
They are limited by their imagination or should I say lack of it. The can only think in terms of following Westminster rules.
I wonder why ms Black resigned. was she eating to many KitKat’s and was facing blackmail. Still she got her self out of the target zone which is more than could be said for Mrs Murrell.
The break the whole thing down, and forgive me for appearing to be patronising:
1. We have to demonstrate that it is the clear and sustained desire of the electorate to break away from WM.
2. We have to have a mechanism for achieving this.
Why are we spending so much time and energy on 2. rather than on cultivating support by demonstrating good governance?
There are times when I think that the SNP are deliberately crap at running Scotland to suppress the indy movement.
Independistas are probably going to have to form their own society.
Sooner, rather than later I suggest, there will be a banking collapse/manufacturing crises and the introduction of a new Social Credit banking system with Universal Basic Income based on citizen behaviour. – A subsistence slave system.
As the population ages, increased immigration and A.I. will be required to care for the elderly.
With society financed by nothing tangible will we be surviving on financial speculation in money markets in a World that has split between The West and The Rest.
Culling the old and sick of course is an option.
An independent Scotland will be looking at a similar future, unless there are rapid moves toward a more productive society.
If we really don’t want to live in a Social credit system then we probably need to get back to manufacturing and exporting.
In the brave new world coming this might not be possible. – The rest of the world could be in the same hopeless state.
There is the back to nature option.
Make Government much smaller.
Sack most of the grifters in government, education, health etc.
Divide up land and give it to those who want, to work it.
Scotland has the room.
The rest can stay in their rotting smart cities living on their CBDCs.
It’s worth thinking about.
Useless, if you can’t shit, get off the pot.
First Minister? Really, how stupid are we to let this continue!
Relevant on why they don’t need to give us a referendum anytime whatsover!
I see the auld gers is oot the day again.
I see Westminster gets 78.1 billion while we get 9 billion from thon oil that’s supposed to be running oot eh!
While Scotland received more than £9 billion in North Sea revenues last year, a further £78.1 billion went to Westminster – which amounted to 7.7% of all UK revenue.
link to msn.com
WE SPENT 106. BILLION- OUR TAX TAKE 87.5 BILLION creating a false hood deficit. With the stolen 78.1 it looks like a massive surplus to me MR JOHN MAIN ………… Even if you charged us our 8% shere for defense spend we’d still be quids in and spend it on what we want. You couldn’t run a company far less a country with that amount of thieving going on.
What you say John Main?
SHOW US THE MONEY JOHN MAIN!
At its simplest a referendum is a way of allowing those who have an opinion, of whatever nature, to express their opinion. There are alternatives. Perhaps more effective alternatives?
Since its inception (2021) Scots from all over Scotland, and in ever increasing numbers, have found an alternative way of expressing their opinion through an initiative- “The Declaration of a Sovereign Scot”
Nor have they kept that opinion to themselves, part of the initiave has seen each individually signed Declaration (It is not a petition) lodged at the HQ of the United Nations inNew York, this is an extract:
Exercising my Claim Of Right as a Sovereign Scot, I declare:
I do not consent to the terms of, nor the continuation of, the Treaty of Union established through the Acts of Union in 1707.
The initiative is designed to evolve, and now includes correpondence with 17 individual UN Members, and a recent post elsewhere on social media this was an update on how it evolving.
Below is an extract from a letter sent to the United Nations last year on the 20th January 2022, as part of the Declaration of a Sovereign Scot initiative. I chose it because it goes beyond just “the rights of all peoples to self determination”, and extends it into equally important areas such as “territorial integrity” and the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”.
Perhaps even more critical was that it was passed “without dissent” by the entire General Assembly of the United Nations.
A copy of that letter has now been sent to each of the 17 UN Members who were party to the passing of the Resolution – they now face the question highlighted – are they and all other UN Members bound by their resolution as it applies to Scotland and Scotland’s people?
Extract:
The following are relevant extracts from General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960.
All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.
Are the United Nations and its constituent Nation Members bound by General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, and bound to uphold those central provisions as they apply to Scotland, and its Sovereign people?
Extract ends.
Notes:
1) All peoples have the right to self-determination – Does that include the peoples of Scotland?
2) Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of … the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. – Does that apply when an area of the North Sea was taken from the territory of Scotland?
3) All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights – would any potential amendment to the Human Rights provisions currently enjoyed by the people of Scotland breach the terms of that resolution?
Sigh. Poor Humza. What a pickle. This gets more embarrassing by the day. He has clearly demonstrated his willingness to fool the electorate (most politicians do). Unfortunately for him, he doesn’t seem to have the smarts, the charisma or even a basic ability to hide his intentions. His ex-boss seemed to to fool a large number of voters for a long time. This guy can’t even get off the starting block. It will be all over by Christmas methinks.
@Viscount Ennui, 2.13
There are times when I think that the SNP are deliberately crap at running Scotland to suppress the indy movement.
It could be deliberate or it could be an example of what Hannah Arendt describes in her book on the origins of totalitarianism
Its most cherished virtue, correspondingly, is loyalty to the Leader, who, like a talisman, assures the ultimate victory of lie and fiction over truth and reality. Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”
Humza couldn’t look more obsequious, sycophantic and like Uriah Heep in that photo if he tried
As said above, we need a new political organisation that draws all the Indy parties together (not SNP as they are a devo/yoon party now, and never the loony greens either), with a new leader, sorry Alex, that we can all get behind. The focus has to be dissolving the treaty of union, not a referendum, and so will draw heavily on Salvo etc. AS still has an elder statesmen role, but not at the front. This party then must integrate tightly with the grassroots and give us all a clear vision to rally behind.
Some hold to view that the only referendum worth its salt is one UK wide.
Should Scotland become an independent country?….
that is destroy the centuries old political, social, cultural unity and harmony of the United Kingdom, go off on its own and possibly become a strategic weakpoint in the defence of the whole British Isles and Western Europe etc……
Another place of strategic importance.
link to nam.ac.uk
«Shame old dears that we lost that one. Would be rather handy now».
“Never venture, never win!” said Sun Tzu.
The SNP shows it doesn’t want to do the slightest proactive thing to win independence. Just wait and hope…or pretend to hope. Because for those in that party who are at the trough, the waiting is most agreeable, and they have no motivation to change the situation.
The SNP has not only been transformed into a devo party, but is a corrupt, perverse and incompetent devo party.
Do not have anything further to do with this lot if you sincerely want independence for Scotland.
There’s no getting away from the fact that Humza’s facing a leadership challenge and a rebellion.
His party have already walked away from him.
Another nice tartan tie from Yousless in the image… Just in case he forgets what country he’s meant to be leading.
Heather McLean @3:29 pm
That’s funny Heather. Uriah Heep was the first thing I thought of too on seeing the pic.
In his case, Uriah Creep would be a more apt name.
Cirsium @3:13pm
A good and appropriate reference, and definitely part of what we are seeing within the SNP.
The Origins of Totalitarianism is a pretty tough read, although it ends with at least a little light showing at the end of a long dark tunnel.
Dear Humza,
A wee reminder of ‘Strategies for independence’:
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
…and the good news is that you can still dae this while the SNP has a majority of Scotland’s MPs. But yer time is fast rinnin oot.
Alf
As Yousaf himself admits (being a puppet FM) there will be no referendum, the two reason are that there isn’t a party for Scottish independence at Holyrood now, and England (Westminster) will NEVER agree to another indyref.
So what are our options?
One, we can wait X amount of years until an indy minded party is in government such as Alba, by then they too will probably have been infiltrated.
Two, we can appeal to those indy minded SNP MPs and MSPs to pull off a coup within the party to get us back on track.
Three, we can push for the 50+1% win then declare independence but what government do we have in place to push for this when the current SNP government isn’t interested in securing independence, and Alba will take Christ knows how long to rise and make an impact.
So you see there is no easy way out of this union in a decade or even longer, the most likely scenario is the SNP will be returned to government in 2026, and if needs be they’ll govern as a minority or in tandem with another party, that will takes us up to 2031.
I have to laugh at some in here when they go on in a good way about the likes of Baird, Hardie, Wallace, Muir and The Bruce, they seem to think that that type of struggle is somehow over, when countries around the globe, such a Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso, and a few others are still having to resort to that kind of struggle to break away from their former and present colonial occupying forces, oh its far more subtle in Scotland, which gives Scots a feeling that they are in control when they are not, but the end result is the same we are propagandised and asset stripped, and our lands are used to host a foreign countries weapons of mass destruction, whilst their subs pollute our seas, and our larger neighbours citizens can come across our border and live here without a by your leave from Scots.
Humza Useless has gotta to be in the payroll of MI5.
Within minutes of the discovery of the theft of the Stone, it was known to the authorities very exactly who had stolen it.
Ian wasn’t very discreet and was already ‘known to the police’.
So were the rest of ’em, even the ones who weren’t in on the secret prior to its execution. The whole bunch of them were aware that they were under surveillance and some (two of whom I knew personally many years later) were actually quite proud of that fact.
Of course the security services were keeping an eye on the ‘nationalists’ at Glasgow University. That’s their job: to protect the United Kingdom.
There’s a rather charming film which tells Kay Matheson’s side of the story. It varies very slightly from the details of the story which Ian told me personally, but in general it is in keeping with the spirit of the actual tale.
If I give a direct link to the film this post will be binned, so you’ll just have to find it yersel’.
It’s on Youtube Interrogation of a highland lass.
I commend the film to this house.
Alf Baird
I’ve been going back over your book Doun-Hauden, and with the current chaotic state of the SNP, as highlighted by the Rev. Campbell in this and other articles of his, a thought occurred to me:
‘Do colonising entities by their nature contain the ‘seeds’ of their own destruction?’
Because it seems, to me at least, that the SNP (we now know the SNP has been hijacked by Westminster and used as a tool for doun hauden the Scots) is becoming more of a hindrance to Westminster’s ability to maintain the illusion of a united kingdom with each passing day.
The SNP appear to be publicly highlighting the powerlessness of the Scots to resist being exploited by a foreign oppressor, and I wonder if we are seeing early signs of the beginning of the end of the ‘union’.
In other words, is the illusion that is the ‘United Kingdom’ beginning to crumble?
” I draw reader’s attention to the paragraph below entitled ‘Withdrawal Strategy’. I agree wholeheartedly with his advice that we should withdraw from the Treaty of Union immediately, due warning send to London. (I would send a delegation to the United Nations simultaneous to withdrawal to have our right of restoring self-determination endorsed.) That implies we have a new Accord ready to discuss. It has been an option open to us when SNP were given a landslide victory, a mystery why the SNP pushes aside mandates as of no value. One cannot negotiate a new Accord until the old is dismissed as unworkable and unjust. In a phrase: let us do it!”
Alf
This sounds good but, we have no indy parties at Holyrood let alone an indy government, and would a delegation sent to the EU be recognised without the SNP governments consent.
Every single major political party at Holyrood has been captured we are fighting not just England’s foreign government but our very own, Central and South American and African nations know how to deal with imperialist puppet governments, Scots still think that somehow they win at the non existent referendum ballot box, a decade has almost passed since the 2014 indyref and we’re not one step closer to independence, infact a case could be made that we are infact going backwards, and still the truth doesn’t dawn on some folk that we’ll need to take our independence like so many other nations have, for it will NOT be given.
If the SNP were ever really serious about independence, they would make sure high calibre candidates were put up for election, that competent ministers would be given the key portfolios, that the NHS, Police, Education, transport, Justice, Culture, Media and Sport were all exemplary, and that the Leader was a shining exapmple of talent, imagination and honour.
-Then it would be a shoo-in.
Gone are the days of mass membership political parties with policy debated and decided at conference.
Today’s smaller parties are much more easily captured by organised cliques.
I don’t really see how democracy and talent can be returned to such hi jacked organisations
I think we need to face a certain human characteristic within the Yes Movement, and indeed, within the Left Wing Movement.
That is, people fall in love with the endless, virtue, struggle, and lose sight of the original purpose.
The members of the SNP still loyal, see getting electorial victory as a win, in and of itself. That the SNP do nothing to get closer to Indy, matters not to them. In fact I’d go so far as to say, they find it a comfort, as obtaining Indy would be scary and a lot of hard work and upheaval.
Much easier and less scary to be a member of a just, perpertual, virtuous, struggle, and put all your energy into protecting your ‘church’.
Should the SNP implode at the ballot box, they will likely convert their energy into rebuilding it, rather than putting it to one side and concentrating on the job in hand – that of actually getting Indy.
We need look no further than Labour to see how this game plan has been used by the British state before.
Or the Trades Union movement… equal pay for all (except women, who can wait for better weather).
Or indeed the Catholic Church (re child abuse).
Always the comfort zone and path of least resistance is to save the vehicle, rather than howf yir kit bag on your shidder and hike over the finishing line.
I’m admiring of Zen type wisdom, and there is a lot of truth in the saying, ‘the journey is as important as the destination’. Sometimes however, you just have to get it done.
Not sure what to call these psuedo indy supporters?
‘Theoretical Yessers of Perpetual Fannying About,’ isn’t quite catchy enough I suspect.
Empty Gesture Yessers – EGY for short.
They might like that, one letter short of edgy, with the potential for egg on chin. Anyway, I’ll stop now. Getting into the realms of bitchy.
The GERs figures are out. It’s great to know were a £19.1 billion burden to the British State.
We’d all be working in victorian slop houses were it not for our English pay masters.
God Save the King.
Let’s remind ourselves of what Humza Yousaf thinks of white people:
“Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white?
Take my portfolio, for example. The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white.
That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people.
“In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white.
That is not good enough.”
@Daisy Walker (4.55) –
It’s not bitchy at all. It’s just unpleasant fact.
The same dunderheids still defending Sturgeon and slinging mud at AS/Alba would’ve been in the Labour party a decade ago and if you’d pushed them to explain why they would’ve said ‘It’s what our mum and dad always did and if it was good enough for them…’
They see themselves as having somehow betrayed their ancestors by joining SNP in the first place so they have to make it work or the guilt is compounded. For them it’s not about independence (if it ever was) – it’s about saving face.
FFS.. it’s “Scottish” Labour in a tartan tie. Whit an absolute radge that useless dunderheid is.
Hi Ebeneezer Scrooge.
What kind of censorship do you think Rev Stu employs, or is it ‘just you’?
link to youtube.com
Republicofscotland @ 4:30 pm
“we’ll need to take our independence like so many other nations have, for it will NOT be given.”
This is the brutal reality; much as postcolonial theory predicts, the dominant national party elite, lacking in courage, ‘chooses neutrality at the decisive moment’.
The SNP Scotland majorities of MPs are effectively blocking our national liberation, Scots should be in no doubt about that.
Northcode @ 4:18 pm
“is the illusion that is the ‘United Kingdom’ beginning to crumble?”
Hopefully more Scots can see through the union hoax; however, ongoing rapid population displacement (managed by our ‘skilled’ oppressor, of course) works against self-determination of ‘a people’.
What postcolonial theory tells us is that, as long as colonialism continues, an oppressed people and culture (and national consciousness) are in the process of perishing. History tells us that many cultures have been extirpated by colonialism.
Which brings us back to the realisation that independence ‘is a fight for a national culture’ (Fanon).
Imperial powers do end up crumbling, but will our distinct culture exist long enough to survive the demise of a rump UK? It seems a bit of a race is on now, and much more urgent than Sturgeon or ‘continuity man’ assume; tho neither of of them have ever undertaken ‘a reasoned study of colonial society’.
The elephant in this discussion is the Stirling Directive and the Claim of Right. Under CoR a Convention of the Estates can be called. This being a thing of CoR is not constrained by the Scotland Acts. It has the power to dismiss parliament or the monarch. It can call a referendum.
The Claim of Right is inviolate. It is baked into the Treaty of Union, no CoR no Treaty, no Union. Why Chuck is on video swearing to uphold the CoR on his Accession. Why WM has twice accepted it by acclimation. If they held a vote and it was lost so would be the Union so that could not be allowed to happen.
Join salvo.scot sign up to Liberation Scotland liberation.scot
We need nobody’s permission. We are sovereign Scots with a constitution. Let’s use the damn thing and get out of this septic union as fast as practicable.
ScotGov will be presented with the Stirling Directive next month. They will be on notice. The courts await. The voters await as they awaken from their colonial induced slumbers to see the status quo as the mirage it always was.
So Humza Yousaf has said his government will vigorously fight against the English governments S35 against the unamended GRRB beginning next month.
The infiltrated SNP’s priority isn’t independence, since Salmond stood down the SNP are no longer a party for Scottish independence, the puppet FM Yousaf is willing to fight tooth and nail for the unamended GRRB using taxpayers cash, but he will not push for independence Yousaf’s ally Sturgeon the Judas even instructed our LA to help close down the indyref route out of this union.
We need to take our independence and then defend it there’s no other viable way for no party at Holyrood is for independence.
“The International Court of Justice, in a 2010 advisory opinion, declared that unilateral declarations of independence were not illegal under international law.”
@robbo says:16 August, 2023 at 2:37 pm
What you say John Main?
SHOW US THE MONEY JOHN MAIN!
As I have pointed out before, Bob, all of that money and assets are accounted for, owned by, and allocated to their current, legal, internationally recognised and accepted, corporate, private, institutional and national owners.
If you have found a way of separating that money and assets from the cold, dead hands of these owners, then by all means share the good news with us.
I guarantee your name will live forever in Scottish mythology alongside those of Bruce and Wallace.
But if you have no more idea of how to do that than I have, then maybes some humility is in order.
Again, as I have pointed out before, you and your ilk are past masters at talking the talk, but don’t have a scooby for how to walk the walk.
But it suits you to lash out at me, whilst ignoring the decision reached by Alba, the only credible pro-Indy party currently alive in Scotland:
The route to Indy relies on making the economic case.
Or, as I like to put it:
Show us the fucking money
If you can’t do that, there’s bound to be a Harry P being shown somewhere to bolster your belief in magical thinking.
Some thoughts on ‘colonialism’ etc
One of the problems I have with using colonialism as a vehicle for considering independence is that it is predicated on the idea that Scotland was once, and to some extent remains, as discreet entity which has been overpowered by a superior state south of the border. But any examination of both Scottish and English history will show that pockets of power and influence existed across both land masses until relatively recently and that there were flows of both people and ideas for centuries before ‘national’ identities emerged. In fact, ask someone living in Lancashire or Yorkshire what they think about SE England and they will display the same antipathy that we show to ‘England’.
And then we have the confounding issue of the Scottish ‘identities’ because noone can deny that there are differing cultures and political allegiance within our own nation, which if the mantra of ‘self-determination’ is to be adopted as a political doctrine will mean that only those regions that choose to secede from the UK should actually become independent after a referendum.
Aberdeen?
Shetland?
The Borders?
I am not, of course, arguing that these are valid arguments against independence but rather suggesting that they provide a rather fruitless route forward because they are bogged-down with doubts and uncertainties.
The only argument that I see providing leverage is the political one. That Scotland has a distinct, visceral, ideology in the here and now, and that it should be given the opportunity to determine its own future under a demonstrably competent government.
Endless sniping about WM gets us nowhere as Rev Stu has pointed-out. There needs to be something that is far more intelligent than that if we are to persuade the soft middle-ground and the problems that we now have (which did not exist in 2014) are that:
a) We have shown ourselves (i.e. the SNP have) crap at governing
b) We have left the EU and would thus become politically and economically isolated at least for a period of time.
What Agent Sturgeon AKA Rosa Kleb has really achieved (because I can think of nothing else) is that she has reduced a rich tapestry of seperatist aspirations to a monochrome one-dimensional route map leading nowhere.
The passion has gone.
The enthusiasm has gone.
You cannot build a new nation on bile alone.
Politics, at this point, is faker than WWF wrestling.
If you think Humza, Anas, the pedo Greens, Wullie Rennie or Jug Ears care about you, they don’t care about you.
To the extent that they do think about you, it’s with active malice and contempt.
They don’t work for you. The political system is the problem.
This is getting desperate. HY is utterly useless but he’s correct, for once, that there will be no referendum until there is a clear, prolonged demonstration of support for secession (not independence, Scotland is not a colony despite what loonies on here seem to think) – and there just isn’t. Take out the don’t knows and it looks like if there were another referendum tomorrow the result would be much the same as last time. Remember ‘Yes’ was ahead in the final poll in 2013 then lost by 11%.
Why the hell should the UK government grant a referendum just because a shouty minority is screaming for one? Because of Holyrood election results? Or Westminster? Even Sturgeon, in one of her rare moments of honesty, admitted that not everyone who votes SNP would vote for secession, so to base your case for another ref. on Holyrood or Westminster seats won is daft. At the moment nearly 60% of Scots have signaled that they would vote for pro union parties in the next GE. 60%! Check it for yourselves. And yet Scotland is being kept prisoner in the union? This is echo chamber nonsense.
And as for rUK being desperate to hang onto Scotland, seriously? Every single English person I know would get rid of us in a heartbeat, perfectly understandable given the abuse they’ve had for the past couple of decades from the Scottish Nasty Party. Many Tories would happily jettison the incessantly complaining money pit that is Scotland, and rUK Labour and the Lib Dems are probably ambivalent at best. We are not the jewel in the crown. We’re a hugely expensive pain in the arse.
If polls were at the 60% mark for a year or so there would be enormous pressure on Westminster to comply, and if it was resisted, Scots could employ all sorts of tactics, from strikes, to protests, to appeals to international bodies to force the issue. Resisting indefinitely in the face of clear demand would be unsustainable. You’d get your referendum.
But the polls aren’t anywhere near there and there simply isn’t the clear demand. And today’s GERS figures highlight, for about the millionth time, that secession with no plan as to how it would be paid for would be catastrophic. Start answering the basic questions about finances, borders and the EU and you might see an uptick in support. But that’s hard work isn’t it? Just screaming about supposed injustice, victimization and betrayal is much easier.
“Why the hell should the UK government grant a referendum just because a shouty minority is screaming for one?”
Because it shouldn’t be up to them. The UK did not require the EU’s permission for the Brexit referendum. Poll after poll after poll after poll, for years and years and years, has shown that whether Scottish people want a referendum or not at that particular moment, they want the decision to be up to Holyrood, not Westminster. No poll, not a single one, has EVER found the opposite. But curiously, at that point your belief in upholding what the people want evaporates.
And as if by magic, this popped-up on my FB page:
link to facebook.com
Tribal boundaries at the time of Julius Caesar.
@Viscount Ennui says:16 August, 2023 at 7:54 pm
A good post, thanks. If I may expand on the following:
We have left the EU and would thus become politically and economically isolated at least for a period of time
One of the things that riles me is epitomised by Rev Stu’s excerpt from the Guardian about the enthusiasm for re-joining the EU. There are two extremes to this idea, as can be seen from the two questions:
1) Would you like to rejoin the EU on exactly the T’s & C’s in force when we left?
2) Would you like to join the EU under new T’s & C’s as yet unknown, but defo very much worse than the ones we had before.
Question 2) is the only question actually on offer, and only an eejit would be enthusiastic about saying Yes from a position of ignorance. Yet everybody behaves as if Question 1) is the true situation.
The SNP is not going to give us an option: a vote for Indy on their watch will be deemed a vote for EU membership on unknown terms.
And meantime, on Wings BTL particularly, the enthusiasm for the EU continues undiminished alongside the consistent hostility to support for the European side of The War. Yet, the EU has pivoted to a war footing, led by Germany, and the centre of EU decision making and power has shifted East to Poland, the Baltic states, and their neighbours.
Any accession to the EU by an iScotland will inevitably require us to get onside with the war effort. Those who vehemently believe in the prosperity of an iScotland will have to agree to us subbing the EU, digging deep to meet our European defence commitments, allowing our superb dispersed natural deep water harbours and air space to be used for military purposes, etc etc. All things that many on here strongly oppose.
Hi John Main.
I am loath to throw accusations of trolling at commenters here but you’re definitely “AT IT”. This will be my last comment addressed at you on this topic.
You keep asking “Where’s the money?” (in an independent Scotland) and conflating that question with the ownership of Scotland’s assets.
Thia is the last time I’m repeating this. With Scotland’s independence, all revenues generated in Scotland, that’s 100% of revenues, will go to the Scottish Ministry of Finance (or whatever it’s called) to be spent on Scotland.
In this onion (used deliberately; it’s made up of so many layers), Holyrood gets around 9% of Scottish revenues.
That you do not accept these facts on this topic of an increased income for independent Scotland, suggests that you’re just here to ‘stir it’.
Confused – That was a fine post (on today’s earlier Wings story). This is an independence web-site and those who write in here are mainly pro-independence. I’m not anti-independence and a few members of my family are independence supporters and so I don’t get too worked-up about it either way.
Back in Salmond’s day, he was able to explain a route-map on how Scotland achieved independence and what would come next. He was too short in detail in the end and that is what cost him the victory. I’m sure he knows that and it is what Nationalists have to do a great deal of work on between now and then, but you haven’t even started, have you.
Personally speaking, I have never doubted Scotland’s ability to go it alone with its own independent government. But, on one hand you have Norway and on the other hand you have Venezuela. Both energy rich but both at opposite ends of the international tables for “best countries to live” and “most stable economies” and all the rest of it.
I have an advantage over most of you as I have had meetings with Scottish Government professionals and and I can tell you they are gangsters and hoods and so we are on the Venezuela trajectory just now.
I don’t know how much longer Humza will last. It all depends on what Operation Branchform reports and if it is bad then the continuity candidate will have to go. Then, presumably, Kate Forbes returns and that will make you electable again because at the present time, hardly anyone will vote SNP.
So, that’s it the way I see it. Very big problems up ahead for Humza and I’m sure he knows that.
Anyway, it’s a few more posters like you that this site needs to re-awaken folks and get them thinking.
John Main says @8.53
The argument put forward is that Scotland would have very little influence within the EU and thus we would be swapping one colonial master for another. Any comment, Alf?
But perhaps more to the point, why is no-one within the SNP addressing these issues?
It is like Swinney in 2014 all over again.
I voted NO because Swinney was unable to answer the most basic of questions and not because I did not believe in self-determination.
We seem to have been lumbered with sub-standard politicians since AS jumped ship because there is literally nobody who can articulate a vision for what an independent Scotland would look like.
Contrary to the lies told by Pudgy Chubbycheeks during the campaign for the “once in a lifetime” IndyRef, the EU have declared that an independent Scotland would have to get to the back of the queue, behind Serbia, of applicant states for admission into the EU.
For entirely understandable reasons, Spain has made clear that they would veto such an application by an amputated Scotland.
Being an outsider ‘nation’, an amputated Scotland would not be allowed to join the Euro, so iScotland would be a country without a currency, much like Zimbabwe.
Totally unviable.
We, the electorate of Scotland, dodged a bullet when we voted NO!
Hi John Main.
You typed,
“And meantime, on Wings BTL particularly, the enthusiasm for the EU continues undiminished”.
You’ve just made that up. You obviously don’t pay attention to commenters’ avatars or you would have noticed that the ring of ‘eurostars’ in my avatar was removed 4 or 5 months ago.
I would prefer independent Scotland to, once again, be a part of EFTA, as it was in the 70s, pre-Common Market.
so,the enthusiasm for the EU has not continued undiminished – it has definitely gone down by one (if not more) commenter(s) btl here.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
16 August, 2023 at 9:21 pm
“you’re just here to ‘stir it’”.
Absolutely not. CY is here for a reason, as am I.
This site is inclusive of differing views and if CY’s ‘crime’ is to stir debate then he is acting according to the best democratic principles.
All of us are pro-self-determination.
But we differ in our views about the best way forward.
‘Stirring it’ is an asset because that is what the electrate requires in order to make an informed decision.
@Viscount Ennui (7.54) –
Given the choice, most areas of UK would become independent from London. The place itself is so massive that there are probably entire boroughs which would claim independence if they could.
And why shouldn’t they? The same principles apply – if any community is cohesive enough to assert its own identity then it should be entitled to the same rights of self-determination as any other group. ‘Subsidiarity’ and all that…
There must be many Londoners utterly scunnered with the apparent untouchability of the heidmost money-men and their chums in Whitehall, WM and the comfy enclaves across the safer rural counties. We’ve all been shafted by them for centuries – decent working folk in England, Wales and Ireland as well as us. We *all* have a vested interest in full disclosure, getting our heads around the true nature of ‘The City of London’ and the shenanigans used to protect that truth e.g. Remembrancer etc.
One thing’s for sure – Scots aren’t the only people struggling to get away from the globalist agenda. It’s happening everywhere – as awareness increases and the more obvious the struggles become, the greater the chance of ordinary citizens organising to end this nightmare. As someone said yesterday (sorry, don’t have time to search back and give due credit), all we have to do is say ‘No’.
Viscount Ennui @ 9:30 pm
“The argument put forward is that Scotland would have very little influence within the EU and thus we would be swapping one colonial master for another.”
Having worked with Norwegians and Icelanders on various shipping projects and initiatives my view is EFTA would meet our needs better than the EU.
@Brian Doonthetoon says:16 August, 2023 at 9:21 pm
With Scotland’s independence, all revenues generated in Scotland, that’s 100% of revenues, will go to the Scottish Ministry of Finance (or whatever it’s called) to be spent on Scotland
Ah hae ma doots.
That’s like saying that post-Brexit, 100% of UK revenues will be spent by the WM Exchequer on the UK.
And of course, they’re not. Eye watering sums are being spent on buying our way out of the EU agreements we signed up to, and will continue to be spent up to the 2050’s as I recall. Long after many of us on here will be deid.
And so it will be with iScotland. Chunks of Scottish revenues will be spent on joint expenditure entered into while we were part of the UK. Our part of the UK divorce settlement in other words. Including our share of the Brexit divorce settlement with the EU.
Then there will be the expenditure we will need to make for things iScotland won’t have the capability to do. Defend all of that offshore oil, gas and wind infrastructure for example. That will have to be outsourced and paid for, probably to the rUK, maybes partly to Norway and NATO.
Last, but by no means least, there is the cold hard cash we will have to give the EU for our predetermined membership. Remember the rules, Brian, rich countries pay in, poor countries hold their national hands out, and we will be a rich country.
I don’t know what percentage of Scottish revenues will go to the Scottish Ministry of Finance to be spent on Scotland, but it sure as hell won’t be 100%.
You don’t know either, Brian, face that fact.
The challenge of divisive politics is you divide the people. EU not EU, Nato not Nato, constitutional monarchy or republican. Albas winning ticket. We will have a referendum on these issues, trust the people to decide. And radical alterations to Holyrood Structural, Procedures and Processes. A fundamental change in the Scottish elections. Only 4 regional list seats. First past the post otherwise. Use the freed up resource for a small upper chamber. Make better law and be responsive to the people. Alex Salmond can deliver a reset of Holyrood. The vision first and the people will follow. Integrity in policy post SNP. A pipedream? Radical change is the only option.
It’s Scotland’s Oil.
John Main says:
16 August, 2023 at 7:32 pm
@robbo says:16 August, 2023 at 2:37 pm
What you say John Main?
SHOW US THE MONEY JOHN MAIN!
Utter tosh- tosh I say!
Every country that has gained independence has taken it all back. Now you can flannel some folk, but you spinning me a yarn.
These companies you talk about own fuck all. We Scots own it all. The license’s become defunct on day of independence -it’s as simple as that auld bean.
Did the USA ,Canada, all the other 50 + nations lose their assets?
Naw they didnnae . London will fall on our day of independence. It’s full of scum, thieves, crooks and vagabonds.
@Brian Doonthetoon says:16 August, 2023 at 9:34 pm
Fair point, EU support fluctuates up and down.
The EU position on the war has dented a few enthusiasms.
The cost of living crisis has stirred up “buyer’s remorse” so that some want the impossible task of turning the clock back. But the EU says “No” to anybody rejoining on the generous terms we enjoyed prior to Brexit.
For myself, I loathe the idea of an iScotland seeking to seamlessly morph into a Brussels satrap. At the very least, there has to be a referendum held in an iScotland with the T’s and C’s of our proposed EU membership clearly known so that we can make an informed decision.
Ask the yanks to join them as the 51st state. Can’t be any worse than being rules from London, and at least the anthems would improve.
@Maxxmacc says:16 August, 2023 at 10:27 pm
And we could all start packing heat to the chipper.
Finally some decorum and politeness after the boozers shut.
Nae assault rifles though, even the Yanks accept that is taking it too far.
Endlessly wittering on about ‘the money’ is just re-arranging the deckchairs.
Time would be better spent discussing the coming financial crash and the restructuring which will follow.
Check out on bitchute –
PROMOTIONAL VIDEO- WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM “YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY.”
Agenda 2021 / 2030 on
bitchute-
AGENDA 21 “IT IS DESTINED TO HAPPEN THIS WAY” EXPOSED BY INSIDER ROSA KOIRE
A self governing country should have nothing to do with globalism. (EU and UN included)
John Main says: at 10:00 pm
@Brian Doonthetoon says:16 August, 2023 at 9:21 pm
“With Scotland’s independence, all revenues generated in Scotland, that’s 100% of revenues, will go to the Scottish Ministry of Finance (or whatever it’s called) to be spent on Scotland”
——————————-
John Main says:
“Ah hae ma doots.
“Last, but by no means least, there is the cold hard cash we will have to give the EU for our predetermined membership. Remember the rules, Brian, rich countries pay in, poor countries hold their national hands out, and we will be a rich country.”
Oh dear me Sweetie pie, you cocked that one up really big. We’ll be rich..!
The EU is not perfect but given that or an English Tory Government I’m in.
Scotland would be in the worlds largest trading market without barriers or tariffs.
Our oil gas, food and drinks would be warmly welcome and profitable.
Workers rights would be restored, open travel, EU health workers, crop pickers and abattoir workers returned among a wealth of other benefits.
Westminster only really disagreed with very few bills past by the EU table they sat at and voted at. We are out simply because the rich and the bankers were facing a closure on of shore and tax avoidance loopholes.
N Ireland still able to trade in the EU is the hot sport for U.K. wealth and growth and the EU is the reason why
MainShazzar’s Feast
“you have been shown the money and found wanting … ”
some rando remarks
the UK and EU can never be seriously compared with each other; it is a joke to even suggest it. The EU don’t steal your cash and hand you back pennies on the pound, and 1/27 of a say is better than zero say in the UK; when has Scotland ever stopped anything England wanted to do? Did we replace the Lords with a Senate comprising 50 senators each from Scotland and England when I wasn’t watching?
when the UK no longer exists any contracts with “UK” on them become void; at the very least they are up for renegotiation. The UK no longer has any claim on our assets and thus any revenue derived from them.
EFTA is the “small rich countries club” and they all have reasons to stay out of the EU
– iceland’s money is from its fish; they would have to let the spanish in, no way
– norway would get soaked, being so rich; there would also be pressure to “go sweden” and start taking in large numbers of random people from everywhere
– switzerland and liechtenstein are into shady financial operations; they don’t need a lot of EU regulations messing with their shit
GDP (per capita) is a good measure of wealth (as long as wealth inequality is not really bad, like in the US, or the UK). Ireland has a higher GDP than Norway despite having no oil, same population. It’s not all about oil – oil is big, but not quite everything; the point is they both did it, differently, but they had control over their own economic policy, we do not.
You can get a good idea what is happening by checking out high level job openings – right now in Edinburgh there is a lot of hiring for AI/ML tech jobs, in particular defence and finance, especially CAPITALISM EPICENTRE – BlackRock are here (they own everything, everything – 8 trillion USD), the games industry, tons of software jobs and analyst roles, specifically in commodities – the Wood Green group are looking for oil analysts and lithium experts (batteries) and Leonardo, radar and sensor experts. Thats just reekie – back down the road in the toon, we have lockheed martin and jp morgan.
– point is “we could have it all happening here” – making us richer, not flowing down to London. There is so much that is going to happen – subsea mining with drones, looking for all the exotic metals that “green tech” needs. You just need some “economic nationalists” with a bit of vision. Everything in the UK is setup to “go through London”. Now imagine say – you decided you would not export electricity to any other country; this would mean our electricity would be very cheap, and thus attractive to the server farms needed by the cloud (also our cold weather is an advantage when it comes to cooling) or any energy intensive business – industry would return. It would also make uptake of electric vehicles happen faster.
The goal is not to live in a country with quality of life indicators minutely better than England – but to unleash the full potential. One never stated thing is – Scotland can never be allowed to do much, or any better than England, because the southerners will come up on holiday, think its nice, then feel “hard done by” when they get back to the home counties – they will ask their local tory – why do the Scots have this? Then they will read about the Barnett Formula and feel aggrieved. So, all the good stuff goes to the “golden triangle” (oxford-cambridge-london), the rest of the country gets the scraps.
Another thing you would not be on the hook for in new Scotland is this –
link to youtube.com
they have begun “cutting metal”, which means its happening; politicians sign these stupid contracts which mean they are on the hook for the full amount if they cancel – so much for “a govt shall not bind a future govt”. The 31B number quoted in the vid is a ridiculous underestimate, but they will never give you the real numbers.
@ happy John Moan 10.14pm you said, “For myself, I loathe the idea of an iScotland seeking to seamlessly morph into a Brussels satrap ”
What you actually mean is “I loathe the idea of an iScotland” fixed that for you John Boy
YOU loathe the idea of an indy Scotland that is why your negativity pours from your every comment,I notice when you target individuals comments about what Scotland could do better you never bemoan or compare the clusterfuck that is WM
YOU and your fellow soft indy HAHA commenters of which they appear to be breeding attempt to denigrate every positive suggestion aimed at producing a better Scotland which only highlights your and their falsehoods
Do you and your fellow unionists actually believe that you can convince dedicated independence supporters on a dedicated independence supporting website that remaining with the poisonous and utterly corrupt WM is the best thing for them and their families
Yossa was saying earlier that he liked the posts by Dan and George F because they were engineers and they being engineers made them more intelligent,indicating that other commenters weren’t as intelligent, he also regales us with his many interactions with civil servants and ministers and informs us that with his wide experience in dealing with these exalted people they are no better than gangsters and thugs , obviously Yossa would prefer dealing with WM gangsters and thugs
I find it incomprehensible that anyone with ANY intelligence, whether they be engineers or NOT could actually compare the corruption and incompetence in WM and HR and vote to stay with WM, Happy John Moan and his sidekicks want US to show them the fucking money have they asked WM to show them the fucking money , and when someone shows them the fucking money it will change to show us the fucking whatever because they are just here for the bants
50%+ argument premature. Pursuers seeking individual right to democratic principle, that can only be crystallized by specific performance of binary plebiscite.
Option to vote in a strict binary proposition, would require specific question on the ballot.
Party attachment to the independence question, is patently not a binary choice.
Remove Holyrood & every political party from the process, it clears the way, for absolute democratic process (also negates imposition of the Scotland Act).
Equitable process, necessitates binary referendum.
Absolute impartial remedy, due to natural democratic process.
Only on confirmation of 50%+ for YES, via neutrally conducted referendum (Holyrood excluded from participation), should an extraordinary general election be called, to establish a new parliament. Democratic principle upheld throughout, with the electorate steering the entire process.
To be fair to Morgan Freeman (who may simply be playing his part to perfection), there’s the small matter of the director, the producer, the script (FFS!), the role played by viral brain fog (if any) in the second most stupid resignation in history, and the 81 million SNP members who (somewhat astonishingly) preferred Carry on up the Caber to the fireworks promised by Madonna and Cardi B (we free version).
@ Stuart McT
” ……the role played by viral brain fog (if any) in the second most stupid resignation in history, and the 81 million SNP members who (somewhat astonishingly) preferred Carry on up the Caber to the fireworks promised by Madonna and Cardi B (we free version).”
hahaha .
I reckon Cardi B ( wee free version : or should that be wi-fi version ? ) may yet get that elusive # 1 spot on the Bill n Ben Board Top 100 Chart , particularly if she goes for the Xmas # 1 with a suitably modern ( Grime , maybe ? ) and relevant version of In The Bleak Midwinter – keepin’ it real , yeah – get it mixed by fellow Highlander Calvinist Harris n it’s hitsville fo shu .
We shouldn’t rule out a * surprise * comeback from the former ” Queen Of Pap ” ie Nikki Ess aka Jeezo . Rumour has it her hopes of breaking through into the global market are not going so well ( something about possible PM/FM payola fixes ) and she may have to lower her ambitions to the domestic market ( she’s ” raging ” , apparently ) . Even here , though , success may not be as easy to come by as it once was . Informed opinion believes her star has waned considerably , and though she may be still able to count on support from her fan club , it may not be enough to see her back on top .
An * ironic * version of The Harder They Come ( The Harder They Fall ) could work . Maybe .
Alf Baird says:
16 August, 2023 at 9:58 pm
“Having worked with Norwegians and Icelanders on various shipping projects and initiatives my view is EFTA would meet our needs better than the EU.”
An important clarification – thanks, Alf.
My gut feeling is that EFTA would be the more pragmatic option at this stage. We would not see the return of free movement (Schengen) which saddens me nor of the wider EU benefits, but EFTA could provide a springboard for later EU entry – if that is what the Scottish people want, and after all implications have been discussed with the electorate.
But…could we join EFTA if still hitched to sterling and with no control over interest rates?
twathater – “obviously Yossa would prefer dealing with WM gangsters and thugs” – I haven’t dealt with any gangsters and thugs from Westminster. No doubt there are a few, but there are a lot at Scotgov and it appears to be what is expected of them by ministers (it was John Swinney in my case). What that does is put you on the trajectory for Venezuela, whereas we want to be on the trajectory for Norway. There are some good posters on this site who make better and more concise and optimistic contributions than I have heard any SNP politician making, but excusing thuggery by the Scottish civil-service gets us all nowhere. Personally speaking, I reckon a few of them need to be sacked and that would send out the right message to the public.
@twathater says:17 August, 2023 at 2:30 am
just here for the bants
Sure TH, and you are here to detail an exhilarating, uplifting, inspirational, costed, comprehensive, scheduled plan for Indy, not forgetting our own personal enrichment in the new iScotland.
[CHUCKLES]
Or are you here to outline the actual plan – another decade of marching about in the rain, waving saltires. Maybes waving them a bit more vigorously this time around due to the total lack of impact of the past decade’s saltire waving.
Look TH. All you have achieved so far is the pretendy fraud Yousaf making a fool of Scotland on the world stage as the world’s first outsourced independence “leader”. A situation where half our governing elite are crims, under investigation, or mired in scandal and controversy. Or like Oor Kirsty, so devastatingly thick, they don’t know whether they personally are a man or a woman.
A travesty, enacted under the full glare of international media attention, where one of the English speaking world’s greatest living comic geniuses is banned in Scotland for saying chicks don’t have dicks.
Now I know you want to claim “it wisnae us, some BritState agents screwed us over and ran away”. Fine, believe that if you must.
But at least have the humility to admit that it has all been a total clusterfuck to date, and just maybes some new ideas are needed to get the Indy show back on the road.
I’ll go further. New ideas, new leadership, new people, new strategies, new tactics, new policies.
I have my own ideas for what works for me. If I am the only Sovereign Scot in the land that thinks they are sensible, then so fucking what? What are you scared of?
And one final question. Why are you and all the other regulars on here totally unwilling and unable to respond to the Alba party’s statement last week from Mr K MacAskill that the route to Indy lies through making the economic case?
I’m no friend of the civil service but, to to be honest it’s easy to see why they could find Yossarian annoying.
Tell us what happened Yosser.
Maybe we can help.
Help you move on.
I see that the British media conglomerate Global has censored Alba billboards that say that like Dracula, and or Thatcher before, prime minister Sunak is now feasting on renewed oil and gas extraction.
Aye they’ll rip and plunder as much gas, oil and wind out of Scotland as they can with poor Jock standing by with the begging bowl out.
It’s Scotland’s oil – oh fuck off Jock.
“Remember the rules, Brian, rich countries pay in, poor countries hold their national hands out, and we will be a rich country.”
John Main @10pm 16 August
Hey John Main
Any chance you could furnish us with what the UK government spent 31 billion on that kept the wolves from our door?
22-23
SCOTTISH TAX TAKE= 87.5 BILLION
SCOTTISH BUDGET(BARNETT) = 56.5 BILLION
BALANCE = 31 BILLION
DEFENCE = ?
SOCIAL SECURITY = ?
INTERNATIONAL MINCE = ?
TEA & COFFEE MIBEE = ??
I NEED TO FIND THESE FIGURES SO I CAN SATISFY MY CURIOSITY.
Thanks a BILLION!
johnlm – you know Alex Salmond’s story vis a vis the Scottish civil service. Is that acceptable? The point that I am making is that this is normalized in Scotland and they have become a delinquent, protected enforcement gang. I seem to remember Jim Sillars making exactly the same point. We’ll wait and see what Operation Branchform uncovers. They will of course say that they were working under direct ministerial control. Before Mia gets to vent her spleen, that is Scottish ministers.
I’ve just done some rough figures John on defence and social security and they account for approx
DEFENCE= 4.4 SHARE
SOCIAL SECURITY = 4.1
Numbers taken from spend on Social Security (22-23 and 8% share of defence( which is kind of a push there) in 22-23
Now that leaves 31B – 9.5B = 21.5B
(21.5 B) seems a lot for international guff + Tea $ Coffee.
So how do we get to 106.5B allocated to Scotland spend putting us at a deficit of 19+ billion odd ?
Yossarian.
Governments are corrupt. I get it.
It is a point worth repeating.
Just not five times every day. It is boring.
Maybe twice a week?
JOHN MAIN
«And one final question. Why are you and all the other regulars on here totally unwilling and unable to respond to the Alba party’s statement last week from Mr K MacAskill that the route to Indy lies through making the economic case?»
Anyone who talks or writes of «making the case» has already bought into the precepts of thd system regardless of what «the case» may be.
May as well try and confect the case for existence, existence «is» and there’s an end of it.
Mac Askill appears stuck in his old Scottish socialist roots, he is not a radical modern nationalist. The latter do not fabricate artificial, psychological obstacles in the way of the goal.
Oh I made a typo John .Should be 8.5B NOT 9.5B .Now to find that extra billion.
= 22.5B All the more tea & coffee but eh
And one more time for our viewers today:
John Main says:
“Ah hae ma doots.
“Last, but by no means least, there is the cold hard cash we will have to give the EU for our predetermined membership. remember the rules, Brian, rich countries pay in, poor countries hold their national hands out, and we will be a rich country.”
«Corrupt» government would not survive if the citizens themselves were not in some measure «corrupt».
Which comes first? The citizen corrupting government or government corrupting the citizen.
Has anyone ever seen Morgan Freeman do any ‘acting’?
For as long as I can remember being aware of him he’s always done voiceovers, or looks as if he’s recording a voiceover, in the style of Morgan Freeman.
Relax everybody.
The financial colossus that is Robbo has done some calculations on the bag of his fag packet.
It won’t be too long before he presents his full projected financials for an Independent Scotland revealing how wealthy the country will be. Unfortunately, no Political Party seems able to cobble up any meaningful figures, but I am certain that we will all be able to rely on Robbo’s input as we try to convince the electorate.
Independence is just around the corner……….said nobody!
I hear Humza is to star in the remakes of ‘Unforgiven’
and the ‘Shawshank redemption’ ( to be set in a self ID woman’s prison)
johnlm – you may have a point there John. Alex Salmond doesn’t go-on about it and neither does Jim Sillars or Kenny MacAskill. But, they are all aware of it and they have gone-on about it before. Let’s just wait it out then.
Oh wee Chas is upset.
That’s jist the basics FACTS
22/23
SCOTTISH TAX TAKE= 87.5 BILLION
SCOTTISH BUDGET(BARNETT) = 56.5 BILLION
BALANCE = 31 BILLION
So tell me where the balance went- we’re all waiting dumb dumb!
It is worth mentioning at this point that even if Humza Yousaf could get the referendum he’s talking about, it would achieve nothing. A Section 30 referendum CANNOT restore Scotland’s independence. Only a true constitutional referendum can do that. A Section 30 referendum is just a glorified opinion poll and leaves it to the British state to stipulate conditions (ie franchise) and interpret the outcome in any way it wants.
Appendix II of the #StirlingDirective sets out suggested criteria for a true constitutional referendum (see below). It was hoped that this would prompt some discussion on the subject. But we continue to see references simply to ‘a referendum’ as if this was a defined term which everybody understands in the same way.
I can assure you that when I speak of a referendum, I mean something markedly different from what Humza Yousaf has in mind. And what is true of Humza Yousaf holds for the whole of Scotland’s political class and to the best of my knowledge, all commentators on the constitutional issue. When did you ever hear any of them stipulate the specifics of what they call a referendum?
THE STIRLING DIRECTIVE
Appendix II
• A proper constitutional referendum must be binary. There can be only two options.
• The options must be discrete, defined and deliverable. That is to say, they must be two quite different options and not merely two variations on the same thing. Both options must be tightly defined at the outset and may not change in the course of the referendum campaign. What is voted on must be what has initially been proposed.
• Both options must be deliverable in the sense that the winning option and the actions which ensue from it must be implementable immediately and without further process.
• To satisfy the previous criteria, the referendum must be on the question of whether to end the Union with England-as-Britain.
• The legislation authorising and regulating the referendum must be determinative and self-executing
• The outcome must be acknowledged by all involved as an expression of the democratic will of the sovereign people of Scotland and therefore binding on all parties.
• It should also be understood and acknowledged that the outcome of one constitutional referendum cannot preclude future campaigning for other constitutional change even where such change would alter or obviate the prior choice.
• The referendum process must be impeccably democratic. The franchise must be as wide as possible and based on strict criteria for residency within Scotland. Registering a vote must be made as easy as possible but with due regard for security and confidentiality.
• The referendum must be held under the auspices of the Scottish Parliament with oversight and services provided exclusively by Scottish institutions and agencies. Every effort must be made to eliminate or at least minimise external interference.
• For the purposes of a proper constitutional referendum on the question of the Union, the British state shall be classified as an external (foreign) power.
• For the purposes of a proper constitutional referendum on the question of the Union, political parties registered as such and headquartered other than in Scotland shall be regarded as agencies of the country where they are registered and headquartered.
SUMMARY
A true constitutional referendum is binary, with options which are discrete, defined and deliverable.
It must be entirely made and managed in Scotland by Scotland’s democratic institutions.
It must produce a clear decision and not merely a result.
The authorising and regulating legislation must be determinative and self-executing.
It must meet internationally recognised standards for a democratic event.
It is the formal exercise by the people of Scotland of our right of self-determination.
The outcome is the expressed will of the sovereign people of Scotland which none may deny.
FAO management
Room service forgot to deliver my regular six John Main posts first thing this morning.
Keep up the good work!
@robbo says:17 August, 2023 at 9:04 am
You know what, Robbo, I don’t have a fucking clue.
And I’m guessing that neither do you.
There’s a welter of contradictory claims, statistics and facts online. I don’t have the time to wade through them.
If you have a link to a believable, non-partisan source of information, please supply it. I can find a link to a plausible source of information that states that up until 2019, the difference between what Scotland paid in and got out was negligible.
I am afraid for me that it all comes back to walking the walk. A government with a solid track record of economic competence would have a level of believability that would mean I would accept their assurances for a post-Indy Scottish economy.
We don’t have that government. It will take years for us to get it.
If you wish to now accuse me of not dissing the Tories as even worse, then on you go. IMO the Tories still have to get a lot more worse before an Indy leap in the dark will seem like a better option. Others may have a different view.
Worth pointing out that it never had to be a leap in the dark. With the resources and money available to ScotGov, a computerised model of the Scottish economy could have been constructed decades ago. All input parameters, such as oil price, agricultural production, average wages, counts of pensioners, etc. etc. setup, with a run of the model done monthly and a monthly report published. Forecasting capabilities added in, allowing “what if?” scenarios to be wargamed.
Mark 2 and Mark 3 models spun off in responses to real-world events such as Brexit, Covid, The War.
Every time I ponder the blindingly obvious necessity of such a ScotGov thinktank, I start to wonder if it does indeed exist, its findings have never been made public, and all because they don’t suit the Indy narrative.
Because if we all had monthly copies of the “Prognosis For iScotland’s Finances” in our possession, and every one of them was showing us the money, we would have been Independent lang syne.
Let’s face facts here people…
THE SNP DON’T WANT INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLAND BECAUSE THE SNP CAN’T AFFORD FOR THE CASH THAT FLOWS FROM WESTMINSTER TO BE TURNED OFF”
So that means that for the SNP the status quo must remain: Devolution with the goal of Devo-Max, coupled with the PRETENCE of pursuing Indy so as to placate the party faithful and keep the membership subs’ and donations rolling in.
As for referenda, you can stick them IMHO.
Too easy to rig… How many folk turned up to vote in 2014 only to discover they’d already voted. How many folk turned up in 2014 only to discover they’d supposedly applied for a Postal Ballot which they’d never done nor received. How many bundles of ‘Yes’ ballots ended up in amongst the piles of ‘No’ ballots.
I’ve only ever taken part in 3 referenda and I’ve been on the losing side of all 3. If I’d been old enough in 1979, that’d make it O for 4.
IndyRef2? Shove it!
Do what SF do… Candidates genuinely pro-Indy should publicly state they won’t take up their seat in Westminster and if a majority of these MP’s are returned then it’s off to the UN and the process of repealing the Acts & Articles of Union 1707 gets underway.
Oh, and SNP Out!
@Peter A Bell says:17 August, 2023 at 10:08 am
That’s interesting stuff.
I would be interested in seeing a draft of the Referendum Question, if one exists.
I am also curious about the following:
1) Time period allowed between announcement of and date of the referendum.
2) Any restrictions on behaviour in the run up to the referendum, e.g. campaign budget limitations for “Project Fear” and “Project Hope”.
3) Time period allowed between the referendum and enactment of the result.
I am also very curious about this statement:
“The authorising and regulating legislation must be determinative and self-executing.”
In which legislature will the legislation reside: WM or HR or both? Hard to avoid the conclusion it would have to be WM!
I listened to Joanna Cherry talk about Independence. She said the party had a circle to square about going for Independence to early… Aye right!
She also said that the SNP had done some fantastic papers on Independence….Aye right!
A student at University could have written those papers on the back of a fag packet.
The infiltration of the SNP is there for all to see. I agree with Campbell Martin.
The SNP has been infiltrated by British Agents like John Swinney and Angus Robertson. Right at the very top. The British Agents also include Nicliar Sturgeon and Peter Murrell.
And then there’s the nodding dogs. The ("Tractor" - Ed)s in disguise. Stewart Mcdonald the holiday rep who wants us to wait 30 years for Independence.
All the obvious gay guys in the party that have loyalty and stick up their arse from their own inner conflicts. They don’t care about Independence.
All aboard the gravy bus says Sally.
Infiltrated.
John
I never mentioned the Tories. But anyhow I was just giving the basic facts.
Money in – that we know about from these Gers
Money out – from what we know from these Gers figures.
What I do know there is 22.5 billion of a difference. So if you take a charge of what Scotland’s budget is
link to bing.com..69i57.11550j0j1&FORM=ANAB01&PC=SCOOBE
The expenses as part of UK on defence
link to bing.com
On social security
link to bing.com
Now as I said that leaves A LOT – in auld D J rump tone lol
What did I say 22.5 BILLION . C’mon what’s a Billion here in here between friends eh!
Just saying.
We’re sick to the back teeth of all this Scotland deficit shite- There ain’t none!
Add the potential of what “CONFUSED” was saying up thread. Scotland is not the basket case of how it is portrayed by Westminster , that eegit Alister Jack
or THON “CHAS” WAN!
TURABDIN says:
17 August, 2023 at 9:41 am
«Corrupt» government would not survive if the citizens themselves were not in some measure «corrupt».
Which comes first? The citizen corrupting government or government corrupting the citizen.
There’s a quote attributed to Irish Philosopher Edmund Burke that ” “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
What is most insidious about corruption isn’t necessarily the theft, embezzlement, nepotism, discrimination etc, but the corrupting process, where “good” people start tolerating low level “harmless” corruption, and like the proverbial boiled frog scenario, by the time the corruption has advanced to a degree they’d balk at, they find they’re already so complicit with the low level corruption, that they too much to lose, and have become ensnared in the rancid system themselves.
Look at the crooked frauds leading the SNP, and witness how easy it has become for other likeminded frauds to abandon Scottish Independence with virtual impunity, while also at the same time, it is now disadvantageous and a threat to your career to stand firm FOR Independence, and do the right thing. Suddenly the good people aren’t good people any more. The corruption has already consumed them. Like the Borg on Star Trek, they’ve been assimilated into the darkness of the collective.
Scotland currently has no mechanism for dealing with corruption, largely because endemic corruption is a vital lynchpin in controlling Scotland, and always has been. Would you trust COPFS and the Civil Service after what they tried to do to Alex Salmond?
Auld Scotland actually did have anti-corruption measures, spanning from the Nations Conditional Monarchy, right down to the principle enshrined in Scots law by the Act ‘salve jure cujuslibet’ of 1663. , which allowed any Scot to challenge any parliamentary legislation which infringed their civil liberties or ran contrary to the Common Good.
The cautionary tale for Scotland is that “salve jure cujuslibet” failed Scotland precisely when Scotland’s “Leadership” was at it’s most despicable and corrupt back in 1706/7.
History repeats, unless us, the good people, do not sit back and do nothing, while the evils of Unionism do their worst.
Pete Wishart’s got Stockholm syndrome. Too much schmoozing in the private members clubs in London has caused him brain damage. 21 years of brain fog in London.
All he can mumble Is, I’m with Nicola. Curse those pesky albists.
The party can’t even agree a strategy on Independence until October. But they can buy Nicliar Sturgeon flowers…
Fannies.
This would not be happening under Alex Salmond. We’d have competent government.
The civil service wouldn’t be buying how to run a government books…
We’d be independent already. We therefore need to get him back to lead us there.
Here’s another estimate on a defence budget a lot lower ?
link to bing.com..69i57j0j69i64.27206j0j1&FORM=ANAB01&PC=SCOOBE
The UK DEFENCE BUDGET IS 60.2 B
So the figures I put out of £4 + on our shere around 4.4 mibbe a tad high- who knows?
link to bing.com
Wee note for CHAS
If you put simple questions into “google” you will get simple answers out.
See above.
You should try it sometime buster!
Stop spinning us yarns- You know nothing John Snow(chas)
I put the social security one in twice
CORRECTION-
The link above regards defence should have been this link below- shere per 8% approx
link to bing.com
300 billion siezed over the last 40 years.
No wonder he’s laughing…
He’s got Scotland’s oil.
Brilliant.
@John Main
The criteria make it clear that the entire process must be made and managed in Scotland. Our independence not only won’t be restored by a foreign parliament, it can’t. Ask yourself, could our independence be restored by the French parliament? Or the Indian parliament? Westminster has precisely the same status as those other foreign parliaments when it comes to the exercise of our right of self-determination.
Ask yourself another question. In the term ‘self-determination’, who does the ‘self’ bit refer to?
“You know what, Robbo, I don’t have a fucking clue.
…..
There’s a welter of contradictory claims, statistics and facts online. I don’t have the time to wade through them.”
John Main @10.54am 17 August 2023
We know what to do,
Scotlands parliament was extinguished and dissolved from the treaty of union in 1707 UK Westminster parliament tells us that in 2023.
We have not been part of a union with England since that date.
Peter A Bell @ 12:04 pm
“Our independence not only won’t be restored by a foreign parliament, it can’t.”
Indeed, Peter. As postcololonial theory tells us, independence ‘is a matter only for the colonized’ (Memmi).
Peter Bell@ 12:04
Excellent post! Concise and irrefutable.
You have really got to take your hat off to how the Tories take the English for absolute mugs.
Bit by bit they privatise their NHS and hand contracts to fellow Tories.
The number of people I know who have been in pain too long sitting on waiting’s lists and
having to pay out thousands for operations is incredible.
I hear today record numbers are paying into private health care plans.
Today we hear that the Tories have scrapped the 2 week target for patients with confirmation of cancers.
The replacement service is called “The 28 Day faster diagnosis standard”.
Some in Scotland May recognise that the ideal time to save as many lives as possible is 2 weeks but somehow waiting twice as long is better and don’t think about the extra deaths
as they will now be able to claim that they are hitting the new relocated goal.
Next to look at is Education- for years we were informed it’s bad in Scotland.
Today we see exam grades are good all around London/ The South and every step North it gets worse.
In 2222 36% of students got A grades but this year it’s 26.5% but lo and behold the Tory Education minister has heralded it a great success.
No it isn’t by any means to anyone who isn’t waiting for a NHS lobotomy.
Brian Doonthetoon,
Thanks for the clickable link to that outstandingly brilliant wee play.
I made the mistake of including a link to the very emotional Gaelic song at the end of the policemen’s tea break. 24:09 in the timeline of the video. My post got binned.
I hope the mods don’t bin this post too. It’s a very sensitive subject, but very highly relevant to everything that this site stands for.
Although I don’t ‘have the Gaelic’ and don’t support either the theft of the Stone by Ian and Kay and Gavin and Alan, nor or their proposed destruction of Scotland and the UK, I was emotionally moved by the song. Very powerful drama.
Brilliant acting by all of them in that play. I think the whole film deserves a lot more attention than it gets.
In the 1970s Ian was a regular drinking buddy of mine at a no longer existent flying/drinking club in the now abandoned RAF station at Turnhouse. He was always great company, pissed or sober. I can say that, without a shadow of a doubt, the stone they gave back was the same one that they’d pinched from Westminster. That was almost always the first question that people asked of Ian.
He did, however, believe that the one taken from Scone by Edward and stuffed under the seat of the Coronation Chair for 650 years was a fake.
Modern geological testing shows that it originated in a local (to Scone) quarry and the rectangular line of chiselled holes show that it had been in the process of being made into a horse trough when it was hurriedly placed in Scone to be lifted by the mug Edward.
Ian often said that he’d love to know what happened to the real one in 1296. We will never know. Maybe it got turned into a horse trough?
Here’s to Ian. Wha’s like him? Damn few an’ their aa’ deid.
[…] That is an entirely fair précis of Humza’s interview found here. […]