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Wings Over Scotland

The lost art of keeping a secret weapon

Posted on January 31, 2015 by

Kate Devlin of the Herald has been a political journalist as long as we can remember.


So it’s quite surprising that she’s apparently never heard of Gordon Brown before.

But it’s a phrase a few paragraphs into the article that’s more revealing:

“Mr Brown has been credited by some as the man who ‘saved the union’ following his intervention in the run up to September’s vote.”

Let’s take a moment to ponder the word “intervention” there, which appears a further three times in the piece. It’s a word that was used in the context of Brown literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of times in the media during the referendum campaign. Its origin is from the Latin intervenire, derived from inter- ‘between’ + venire ‘come’. It’s normally used, according to the Oxford dictionary:

“in the sense ‘come in as an extraneous factor or thing'”

So semantically-aware readers might well feel that it was an absurdly nonsensical way to describe Gordon Brown’s participation in political debates. Gordon Brown has been a professional politician for decades and is a sitting MP for the Labour Party, whose policies are opposing independence and the SNP.

(We use that phrase in the narrow specific context of this article, but in truth it more or less sums up the party’s entire manifesto in Scotland these days.)

Gordon Brown opposing independence and the SNP, then, is no more an “intervention” than accusing Wayne Rooney of “intervening” in a football match. He’s not an “extraneous factor”, it’s exactly what he’s supposed to be there to do all the time.

The portrayal of Brown as an external force whose involvement is somehow noteworthy in and of itself is a ploy designed to add gravitas to his opinions that they don’t merit on content alone. His infamous fronting of “The Vow” presented the people of Scotland with precisely nothing in the way of new information – it merely reiterated months-old existing pledges by the Unionist parties.

But the press treated it like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments, with the BBC giving Brown over an hour of uninterrupted prime-time live news to deliver a run-of-the-mill speech to a few dozen Labour activists like it was the second coming of Christ himself.

(No remotely comparable balancing coverage was ever given to the Yes side.)

Gordon Brown is a backbench MP, an everyday combatant in the field of politics. Him doing his job is not an “intervention”, a shock move by some impartial statesman so struck by the arguments he’s abandoning a position of neutrality to issue unprecedented backing for one side or the other. He isn’t the Queen.

(Now that really WAS an “intervention”.)

Nor, by even the wildest tortured stretch of language imaginable, is he a “secret”. (Though readers familiar with Scots vernacular might willingly concede that he’s a “weapon”.) The fact that Gordon Brown, a current Labour MP, will be campaigning for Labour in a general election is perhaps the ultimate textbook definition of “the bleeding obvious”, and to imply anything else is to insult the intelligence of anyone reading it.

But should poor battered readers be suffering a headache from the idiotic witterings of the Scottish media, or fretting about the “intervention” of such a powerful and totally unexpected influence, they might like to recall the last time Brown was declared “Labour’s secret weapon” in the context of a general election, in April 2011.


We think we remember how that one panned out.

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    1. 31 01 15 12:41

      Demanding Relatives |

    2. 31 01 15 13:47

      The lost art of keeping a secret - Speymouth

    3. 31 01 15 15:35

      The lost art of keeping a secret | Politics Sco...

    269 to “The lost art of keeping a secret weapon”

    1. wingman 2020 says:

      500 pound Gorilla of Scottish Politics? Surely someone else in the Labour party has that title?

    2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Now, now.

    3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Ah but, Gordon described himself as an ex-politician.

    4. Geoff Huijer says:

      Less of a weapon; more of a tool.

    5. Jim Thomson says:

      Less of a weapon, more of a tool.

    6. Jim Thomson says:

      Jeezo Geoff …

    7. Jim Thomson says:

      I think your semi-colon is, however, more appropriate [grin]

    8. Croompenstein says:

      It wasn’t the ‘500 pound gorilla’that had a dramatic impact on the referendum, as you say Stu it was the BBC for without them and their pals at the Record Brown is just 500 pounds of shite.

    9. Hwanofbute says:

      “But the press treated it like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments, with the BBC giving Brown over an hour of uninterrupted prime-time live news to deliver a run-of-the-mill speech to a few dozen Labour activists like it was the second coming of Christ himself.”

      …and that’s the problem. BBC Labour (and the supine unionist press)will probably do the same again, fooling the folk out there who believe that Auntie is impartial and a source to be believed. Brown may be laughable, but we can’t afford to be complacent.

    10. gman says:

      I think that whenever ex politician brown deviates from his corporate hooring it could be classed as an intervention…

    11. Brian MacLeod says:

      He promises what he cannot deliver.

      The Party is more important to him than the welfare of the people of his country.

    12. Croompenstein says:

      Is this an admission that the ‘Murphy’ kickback has failed. What next is Flipper going to campaign for Labour too #shockandawe

    13. Rigmac7 says:

      Aye, he’s a weapon for sure

    14. So, Labour has a 500lb gorilla.

      That a wee one, did Rangers not have a 10,000lb one in a room at Ibrox?

    15. heedtracker says:

      Its always amazing how this bizarre “son of the manse” can tell so many blatant lies in public. It must be ok in the eyes of our Lord to be a liar for teamGB.

    16. Rigmac7 says:


      Play fair, Veet has sorted that little hirsuit problem out…..mainly

    17. Swami Backverandah says:

      “He isn’t the Queen”.

      He isn’t even Baroness Noakes, the famously impartial Deputy Chair of Ofcom, who this week used her position to actively tweet against the Labour Party.
      In all fairness, it is difficult to keep silent about the farcical antics of LabourUK, and in doing so, Noakes has exposed herself as a Tory shill.
      You may think that’s self-evident.
      I couldn’t possibly comment.

    18. RogueCoder says:

      This is clearly UK Labour beginning to panic and sending in the “saviour of the union” as Murphy’s leadership has failed to make inroads into the SNP surge. They must mistakenly believe that because he apparently won Scots over in the referendum, he’ll do so again for Labour in the GE.

      But what Gordon actually did during the referendum was scare the bejesus out of pensioners and act as an avatar for deeply unpopular Westminster party leaders who were seen as toxic to the unionist campaign in Scotland. His presence in a GE has entirely different parameters.

      Brown is tarred with the New Labour legacy of Iraq, the financial crisis, and his raid on pensions. He was one of the most unpopular Prime Ministers of the past century. There’s no way he’s going to tempt back voters who switched to the SNP, because he represents the New Labour values (i.e. Red Tory) which Scots voters have become so disillusioned with. And he’s standing down anyway – Scots won’t be voting for him, they’ll be voting for the current crop of worthless Branch Office incumbents who have so utterly failed to serve the Scottish people.

    19. grahamlive says:

      It really is baffling that the Scottish media hold him in such high regard. Isn’t he a failed Prime minister, now a mostly absent backbench MP?

    20. gordonbrownsbeard says:

      I love charity especially when its mine. Come on people make a donation now! Nothing dodgy here you know!

    21. badgerboydarling says:

      Weapon? Aye a tool by any other name right enough.

    22. Valerie says:

      Deja poo. Different year, same shit.

      I hope I’m still around to see the satirical plays and films made about this era in Scottish politics.

      We are living our own “The Men who stare at Goats”

    23. Swami Backverandah says:

      Has the HeraldScotland got a piece on Brown’s doings during the period when Blair and Straw were sanctioning the kidnapping, rendering and torturing persons on the Island of Diego Garcia?

    24. Valerie says:

      Wonder what the paycheck is this time? They will letting the gorilla write his own cheque, given his accolades from last year’s performance.

      I’m with heedtracker. I am an atheist, but still wonder at how your religion allows the type of performances we have witnessed from Brown. The pensions and the organs lies were particularly heinous.

    25. thomaspotter2014 says:

      This is however you look at it a slap in the face for Slimy Jim Murky and it seems, as desperate as they are, that the Savior of the Universe will be rolled out to terrorise a pensioner near you very soon.
      Especially from their own wee box in their own livingroom.
      BBC got a lot to answer for.

    26. David says:

      To the tune of “Flash Gordon” –

      Sept 2014 “Crash, ah-hah, saviour of the unionverse”

      Jan 2015 “GORDON’S ALIVE!?!” &

      “Crash I love you! But we only have 4 months to save the Labour Party!”

    27. Josef O Luain says:

      I was never convinced about Brown saving the Union.
      What really saved the Union was that (rarely discussed) rogue poll putting Yes marginally ahead.

    28. A.N.Surgent says:

      Have the English labour party selected who is standing in the place of gordzilla ,for the so called Scottish labour party.

    29. Scott Borthwick says:

      Those familiar with Scots vernacular might further concede he’s a walloper.

    30. badgerboydarling says:

      I wouldve have thought he was to busy running his own charity and eh raking it in for himself to bother helping his fellow red tory monkeys. Things must be bad for Slab in fact things must be worse………..

    31. One_Scot says:

      They just don’t get it do they. Labour is now toxic in Scotland, probably more so than the Tories.

      They destroyed themselves purely so they could continue to serve their Westminster masters.

      Such a shame, it could have been so different.

    32. chic says:

      @wingman 2020 @12:20
      Ah, but she might sue!

    33. galamcennalath says:

      I suspect deploying Federal Broon to do what (as Stu says) he’s paid to do will be counter productive. What can he say?

      He can’t make fancy offers to Scotland which will lose votes in England.

      He can’t try the whole Home Rule / Federalism pitch again. That has been discredited already among many who were gullible first time it was used! Despite what the London bubble says, not many people in Scotland can believe homeopathic Smith represents the Vow far less Home Rule.

      He can chant the mantra “Vote SNP get Tory”, again. That no longer sounds quite right from the mouth of those increasingly been seen as Red Tories!

      What he will do is highlight the huge contrast between what the SNP will put on the table, and what Labour are trying to hide under it!

      Bring him on!

    34. heedtracker says:

      From rancid old progresive liberal Guardian that told teamGB to vote for anyone but Crash Gordon the worst ever UKOK PM

      “Even without that doomsday scenario, an SNP surge will aid the cause of independence just months after its referendum defeat – and imperil the union once more. Yet here’s the Tory ad machine echoing the SNP’s core argument, giving the cause of nationalism a nice little push.”

      Rancid Graun doomsday is Scots having the disloyal insolence not NOT vote Slab and save 40+ million English voters from voting Conservative!

      Talk about BetterTogether mixed messages or, its another red and blue Tory UKOK day for their Scotland region that can’t run possible itself and must be controlled by England because your imperial masters/family need to be saved by Scots Slab voters and on it goes in the teamGB loony bin. Confused?

      “You won get over it”:D

    35. wingman 2020 says:


      No takers?

    36. Author_Al says:

      Even when a Labour supporter I never could watch Gordon Brown talk because of his continual toad-like sucking in of air. Full of wind, he soars across the politicalal landscape like the ill-fated Hindenburg. Gordon promised Home Rule which became the Vow which became Smith which became watered down by the London Cabinet and now dribbles from Miliband’s plasticine mouth. Labour promises 21st Century Home Rule…by Westminster. My home is Scotland last time I looked. Maybe Brown will promise us the early 20th Century version. I won’t hold my breath.

    37. Les Wilson says:

      I wonder if we will see a tv debate with him and Salmond?
      However, I believe he has a policy of on talking to a vetted audience only, no serious questions allowed. so doubt that will not happen. The Unionist Msm would be scare he got whacked.

      I am allowed to dream, right!

    38. wingman 2020 says:

      @Stu Chic Rigmac7

      Come on guys, I merely wondered if there was not a better Big Beast in the Labour Party. I cannot be responsible for your interpretations. You are on your own Jack. Don’t expect me to bail you out if you get sued.

    39. wingman 2020 says:

      Brown and Darling will be in the Hol shortly.

    40. alexicon says:

      That list you put up about Brown is exactly what should be on leaflets and posted through every door in Scotland.
      Also don’t forget his embarrassment of saying he was Scottish on American TV, opting for north British instead. His adorning of the English flag and on his watch the gap between the rich and poor got wider than it ever did under the tories.
      That should do the trick.

    41. Jim Richmond says:

      Found this posted on another forum.

      “Here is a summary of Gordon Brown’s legacy in case anyone needs reminding.

      EDIT: This was taken from an article Posted on 16 February 2009 by ‘Frustrated Voter’ from another site. House rules prevent posting the link.

      Introduced more stealth taxes than any other chancellor in history, equivalent to an extra 10p in the Pound on the basic rate of tax (source: Grant Thornton).

      Solld the UK’s gold reserves at the bottom of the market ignoring expert advice not to.

      Introduced ‘green taxes’ in the full and certain knowledge that any revenues gained were not destined to be invested in green initiatives. Yet another successful stealth tax to add to the collection. If you are starting to feel a little duped, then read on, I haven’t finished with Mr Brown yet!

      Successfully achieved the goal of becoming prime minister without going through the inconvenience of being elected by the people. This in spite of the fact that New Labour gained their substantial commons majority with 57% of the voters supporting another party. So much for the benefits of our First Past The Post electoral system.

      Missed virtually every financial growth target announced in each successive budget without so much as a murmur from the press.

      Successfully managed to dupe the press into believing that he was an iron chancellor driven by prudence, when in fact he was a spendthrift.

      As the architect and driver of the revised PFI initiative originally proposed by the conservatives, saddled the country with a bill of £170bn which must be paid by 2032. Without having to include the figure as part of the public sector balance sheet.

      Managed to keep the £780bn public pensions deficit off the books, even though this is equivalent to over £30,000 per household and must be paid out of future tax receipts. Estimates of this deficit have now been increased to over £1trillion.

      Managed, without any consideration of the irony, to lecture people on their level of borrowings, whilst building up nearly £500bn of debt on the governments own ‘credit card’. If other recent liabilities are taken into account, this figure would rise substantially over £1trillion.

      Introduced and supported a complicated tax credit programme that has managed to lose £2bn every year through fraud and errors.

      Left the taxpayer saddled with £1.7bn of Metronet’s debt having been the person that pushed through the Private Public Partnership initiative for the London Underground.

      Managed to convince the public that local authorities were responsible for the doubling of council tax. Meanwhile he was actually placing responsibility for all additional services firmly with the local councils.

      Managed a real blinder, by camouflaging the inflation rate by changing the measurement from RPI to CPI.

      Underwritten £17bn of debt for Network Rail, without having to include it on the public balance sheet.

      Survived the embarrassment of claiming in March 2006 that 31,000 government employees had been trimmed off the payroll, whilst the Office for National Statistics claimed one month later, that the headcount had actually increased by 62,000 a difference of 93,000!

      Managed to introduce such a complex set of rules and regulations, designed to extract maximum tax take that the annual Finance Act (summary of tax changes in the budget) has increased from 300 pages or so in the 1980’s to over 10,000.

      At a time when businesses are struggling and people are having to tighten their belts, presided over a government that boasts some 78 acres of empty space in office buildings and grace and favour homes.

      Managed to push another 3.5m people into the higher income tax bracket, using a favoured trick of ‘fiscal drag’, where the tax threshold is raised more slowly than earnings are rising, so that workers end up paying a higher proportion of their income in tax.

      Twice shifted the timing of the ‘economic cycle’ in order that the so called “golden rule” would not be missed, resulting in a brazen massaging of the figures.

      Ensured that there are now twice as many tax collectors as there are nurses, demonstrating firmly where the government’s priorities lie.

      Masterfully convinced people that they are “better off under Labour” even though each family now pays more than £5,000 in extra tax, compared to 1997”

    42. K1 says:

      I thought intially when I began reading this that you were going to point out that the term ‘intervention’ with its meaning to ‘take part in something so as to prevent or alter a result or course of events’, was an admittance (unwittingly) on the part of the author, of the Necessity to persuade the voters to vote NO.

      They the unionist have been re writing history since, to the point where there is blatant denial that ‘home rule’ was even mentioned, and that the vote is the ‘settled will of the people’. What need of ‘intervention’ if it was not fairly clear that the vote was heading toward Yes?

      In other words the author is admitting (unwittingly) that the will of the people was thwarted by his ‘intervention’.

      Tick Tock (shower a f***in’ shysters the lot of them)

    43. jimnarlene says:

      He’s a weapon of mass deception, a failed chancellor, a failed prime minister, an absolute vainglorious self aggrandising bellend; who cares not but, for himself and his treacherous party.

    44. Clootie says:

      How many “Vows” will it take for people to wake up?

      They have even stated in print that the Labour Party is more important than YOU!

      I despair at the thought of another lost opportunity for the people of Scotland.

    45. Orlando Quarmby says:

      Brown isn’t a “secret weapon”. He’s an obvious tool.

    46. TheGreatBaldo says:


      I remember an excellent John Harris video article in the Guardian done in the immediate aftermath of the IndyRef.

      He did an interview with some broken hearted YES voters in George Square, then went to a Leeds match to speak to the guy from Yorkshire First.

      He finished his piece with him attending a meeting at the Labour Party Conference expressing his frustration at how clueless all those at the meeting where to what was happening outside their wee bubble.

      Anyway the camera pans to the ‘panel’ at the meeting and there is Jim Murphy in cosy conversation with none other than the above Herald journalist.

      Nothing unusual that of course, as a political journalist by speaking to a politician, she was only doing her job.

      And respected political journalists or columnists hosting or chairing debates at Party conferences is not new or restricted to the Labour Party.

      But by way of coincidence, the infamous Herald piece about there being real fear about violence at polls on Sept 18th….you know the one that was completely rubbished in an unprecedented statement from the SPF.

      That as I recall was also co-authored Ms Devlin.

      Politicians having and using favoured journalists is as old as time, so I think we can safely assume that Ms Devlin has been chosen as one of the oracles for the wisdom of Jim.

    47. R-type Grunt says:

      @ Josef

      All the polls lie. Every one of them is being used to manipulate the morons in our country & us.

    48. Legerwood says:

      If the Labour party is looking to Brown for salvation what does that say about Murphy’s leadership?

      What does it say about the Labour leadership at UK level – a leadership that did not even mention Brown at all during their conference after the referendum – that they are looking to Brown for salvation?

      And he is not even standing as a candidate in the election!

      His involvement if it happens will of course be the excuse for the BBC to give Labour blanket coverage and ignore all other parties – and that is the real reason Labour are looking to him for salvation.

      PS: hope this means he is not going to ditch saving Tesco in Kirkcaldy.

    49. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland will be cancelling all programmes on Wednesday afternoon to cover the Gordon Brown debate from Westminster.

      Upcoming Business – Commons: Main Chamber Wed 4 Feb 2015.

      “Scottish representation in the Union – Gordon Brown. Adjournment debate”

      Prepare for wall to wall coverage about Brown on Wednesday from our impartial media.

      “Ladies and Gentlemen, we interrupt this programme,,,”

      I wonder if this speech by Broon is timed to coincide with the release of the Constituency poll results, which are due out about the same time next week.

    50. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Triumvarite of Broon, BBC & The Daily Redcoat were told in no uncertain terms where to take themselves by 45% of the voting population of Scotland. We didn’t believe their lies then, we still don’t and never will. That 45% are still here and will destroy Labour in Scotland come May.

    51. Doug Daniel says:

      It makes me so happy that Labour believe their own hype about Gordon being universally loved in Scotland.

    52. frazer allan whyte says:

      Wingman, you’ve got your mountains mixed – Lhamas are generally found in the Himalayas, in monasteries. Llamas carry burdens in the Andes.

    53. Chic McGregor says:

      It is no secret he is a weapon.

    54. Grouse Beater says:

      Fate preserve us from blundering ‘heavy weights’.

      Early days and support of Home Rule here:

      ‘Gordon the Hapless’

    55. bmc875 says:

      Scoff if you will. He has been successful in the past. He is dangerous. SNP/YES failed to counter him last time round.

    56. bookie from hell says:

      Done Up Like a Kipper early morning of referendum result Cameron EVEL

      he has nothing to offer,and no power to deliver

    57. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      At least two churnalists speaking on BBC Radio ‘Scotland’ in the last week have used the phrase ‘the so-called Vow’.

      Following that, I’m sure they’ll be speaking soon about ‘the so-called Intervention’, or ‘the so-called Secret Weapon’.

      But I must say the reviewer on their morning news programme today was very funny on this ridiculous story. (The Herald will have been blushing to the rooftops, I expect.)

    58. A.N.Surgent says:

      Totally bizarre that the labour accounting unit is running their genaral election campaign exactly the way they ran the ref. with the same people, in fact they are the better together party. If they lose as many labour voters as they did in the ref. that will do me.

      They have no policies on the NHS, poverty, welfare, economy and the never mentioned trillion pound elephant in the room the “deficit”. Just SNP bad and the union rules ukok.

      Cant help but smile that the Yes movement has chilled them to the bone.

    59. Roger Hyam says:

      Labour do have a problem. Gordon’s famous rallying call to the ignorant:

      “if you don’t know, then you have to vote ‘No'”

      just won’t work next time:

      “if you don’t know, then you have to vote Scottish Labour”

      Just doesn’t scan. Perhaps:

      “do us a favour, don’t think vote Labour”

      Would do the job. The middle class rallying call might be:

      “sod your neighbour, vote Labour”

      Perhaps we could help them out here.

    60. Les Wilson says:

      I knew this was coming the moment I heard he had tabled another debate in Westminster to push the VOW being implemented. It does not matter what the outcome is Westminster does not want to give us anything real.

      What it is for, is to raise Brown’s profile as a man of his word ( I tried my best did I not!- I can hear it already!)
      To ingratiate himself as a good man that can be trusted with Scottish voters. Ably helped by the BBC et al!

      Are we going to be conned again? YES, without a doubt, that is the intention. It cannot be allowed to happen.

    61. wingman 2020 says:

      @Frazer Allen

      Clearly I was going for the Spanish spelling LOL

    62. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry Stu but I think I may have to pick you up on something here. 😉

      Gordon Brown is a backbench MP, an everyday combatant in the field of politics.

      I think I have to disagree with this statement.

      a) for any M.P. to be a back bench M.P. they must surely actually have to turn up in the House of Commons.

      b) for any M.P. to actually be described as a combatant they must actually vote in the debate … mustn’t they?

      According to this site it would appear under my assumptions that good old Broon the Loon is neither a back bench M.P. nor is he a combatant. 😛

      As you can see from the record oor wee Gordy has *ahem* attended 147 times out of a possible 1195 times since May 6th 2010, which works out at roughly 37 times a year (3 times a month) if my maths are correct. This is a massive 12.3% annual attendance record for Broon.

      If only we all had to just turn up to our place of work THREE days a month we would all surely be in a better place.

      Just for comparison his *cough* boss, a certain Jim Murphy, has attended 615 times almost 17 times more often than Broon.

    63. Marie clark says:

      I know during the referendum this daft ploy seemed to work as they proceeded to scare the shit out of some pensioners. (no this yin).But, em, ah, is this no supposed to be a general election so how do the square the circle this time. They cannae use the same tactics as it’s not just for Scotland it is allegedly for the whole of the United Kingdom.

      Does this mean that, In spite of all the hard work of the EBC (Pacific Quay Branch) and the peripatetic cadaverous one that it’s no working. Aw shame that, intit.

    64. Rosa Alba says:

      Second Coming of Christ walking on the waters of the Pentland Firth and calming them to millpond status might well be how the likes of Grannie Labour sees Brown, who not just saved the Economy and the Banking System by his swift actions but was a miracle force in the Yes Campaign, with the Smurph, saving the Union.
      Yes Grannie Labour credits Gordie, along with the Smurph doing his step aerobics on his irn bru crate – with saving the Union – of greater value than saving a soul – saving us from Nazism. She really does believe that there is a hint or more of Nazism around the SNP. It remains to see if he can Save Tesco, from policies his own party put in place.

      What IS the issue is how many others are like Grannie Labour (who is also a bit of a champagne socialist – buying shares with love) and still believe in the Labour Party.
      What is also of issue is how many such adoring acolytes blind to the realities (the idiotic inconsistencies) can be brought to realise the truth.
      And how to communicate effectively with them.

      Leave print copies of The National everywhere you can?

    65. MD says:

      No doubt the BBC has already booked him for an hour long propaganda session again…

    66. handclapping says:

      Aye they wheeled him out 3 times for the Kirkcaldy East council bye election and the SNP won handsomely.

      But then again maybe Glasgow believes in Brown

    67. Paula Rose says:

      Sad behaviour – voting Labour!

    68. Kiereann says:

      A ‘weapon’ ? hmmm, a ‘tool’ certainly.

    69. Wullsg says:

      “But the press treated it like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments”

      Good job Moses never called them the 10 vows……. Then we could do anything we damn well like.

    70. K1 says:

      If it is indeed so that the poor voted yes and most of the poor traditionally have been kept poor by voting Labour, and swathes of the poor reside in our biggest cities, then I would think Glasgow especially does not believe in Brown.

      Glasgow voted Yes. Glasgow will destroy the Labour accounting unit in Scotland at the GE.

      (I am one of those poor, but not in spirit)

    71. thedogphilosopher says:

      It is possible that old Clunkasaurus could still do some damage on behalf of his beloved Union come May, but it may well prove to be The Last Roar of the Dinosaurs!

      There’s a big demographic asteroid heading this way in the shape of a younger generation who now see a better way forward in the form of Independence. A politically-savvy electorate is evolving to replace those who have always felt emotionally obliged and economically reliant on their Imperial Masterdons.

    72. karmanaut says:

      Whenever Brown appears, it’s to front the next big Unionist Lie.

      Since Labour’s Ministry of Truth has failed to convince anyone that “Home Rule has been delivered”, I imagine Lie v2.0 will be something like “this is the most home rule possible without destroying Britian”, or some such hooey.

      Bet he tries to paint the SNP as “dangerous”. At risk: the very fabric of or nation, the values we all hold dear, etc etc. Chuck in some “memories of solidarity during WW2, a bit of ISIS, and Bob’s your uncle. Job done. He can go back to ripping off charity donors and we can get on with voting out these liars for good.

    73. SquareHaggis says:

      Dug up Dim and Lazarus Broon, the combined rotting corpse of Labour in Scotland.

    74. msean says:

      Just ignore any vows,pledges etc made,and ye’ll be fine.

    75. heedtracker says:

      “the BBC giving Brown over an hour of uninterrupted prime-time live news to deliver a run-of-the-mill speech to a few dozen Labour activists like it was the second coming of Christ himself.”

      That was horrify though. Not since the BBC destroyed the miners and Scargill has BBC attack propaganda succeeded like their UKOk vote NO campaign. Here in, England BBC 24 had Crash Gordon on a vote NO or else loop with their BBC ticker tape threats trundling along underneath his flappy jowls. Jim Naughty was up in their Scotland region this morn taking a long hard whizz over Scottish democracy but as per, the cowards never once mentioned the incredible power of BBC vote Slab Scotland to make Scots vote red tory.

    76. Will McEwan says:

      Describing Kate Devlin as a political journalist is stretching it a bit.

    77. MJC says:

      “Golden Brown, texture like …..
      always a frown with golden Brown!”


      Hosanna in the highest!

      What headline is most apt for the bbc for said (intervention)?

    78. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Brown is akin to the presence of a fart in a pair of tights. A momentary irritation while your ankles swell, then he’s gone.

      The fact that the Northern Branch Labour Party wheel him out now, is one can only assume, their continued naive refusal to accept that their kow-towing faithful haven’t learned a few facts or two since Sep 14.

      You could almost believe that SLab and their sychophantic media luvvies are operating to an agenda either written two years ago, or on the morning of Sep 19th. Either way, out of touch doesn’t go far enough in describing their collective approach.

      Oh, and to be a fly on the wall in ‘put in yer place’ Murphy’s office.

      Stroll on. Entertainment abounds.

    79. Mel Fowler says:

      What is it about both Brown and Murphy? They both bring about these awful feelings deep from within. I cannot believe that we have shared the same country over the years! Maybe if I spent years living in London and being radicalised by the Westminster machine I would have a different outlook?

    80. Proud Cybernat says:

      If the SNP can secure just two thirds of the IndyRef YES vote of 1.6 million then Labour will be wiped off the map in Scotland. With any luck, for good.

      COME ON THE 45%. Don’t ket this chance slip us by. Stick it to these treacherous barstewards in May.

    81. arthur thomson says:

      Yes I expect Brown, Darling and the others who promoted the devastation of Iraq to be used by the media to sell Labour lies. There are people who will support Scotch Labour regardless of how hideous it is. I also think there may be signs of people using what we generally regard as pro indy sites to promote Scotch Labour. We must avoid assuming some kind of responsibility for the cynical and the gullible. I am well impressed with the way Nicola has projected a finely tuned balance of passion tempered by realism. To the extent that the new SNP candidates and supporters on the ground can emulate her, I think the Scotch Labour ‘big beasts’ will be seen by ordinary thinking people as unscrupulous has beens, however the media try to sell them.

    82. manandboy says:

      I know this might sound a bit weird, but the IndyRef campaign by the BBC –
      in the colours of Labour,
      had little to do with the persuasive powers of Labour/Brown
      but much more to do with the power of the BBC
      as a trusted source of factual, authoritative news,
      and, its ability to reach millions sitting in their own living rooms in complete comfort.

      These factors still apply. It is not the Scottish Branch of the Red Tories who are the enemy. It is the BBC – as the propaganda machine of the Westminster Establishment.

      Labour is playing the role of El Cid, when, as a corpse, he rides out strapped to his horse, at the head of his uninformed army,
      to attack the disbelieving enemy,
      who had previously seen him mortally wounded.

      Labour in Scotland is a corpse.

      It is the BBC which is very much alive and which controls the minds and the allegiance of the majority of the population.

      Soon, Brown will ride out, strapped to his horse-
      to fool the electorate again.

    83. Marie clark says:

      @ Paula Rose 1.56 Sad behaviour – voting Labour.

      Works for me lass.

    84. Fred says:

      Thatcher’s favourite hymn, “I Vow to thee my country”, where he got the idea? Last refuge of a scoundrel.

    85. author_al says:

      I was wondering what to make of SCOTTISH LABOUR …



      Am sure there are more apt anagrams out there… 🙂

    86. Helena Brown says:

      There are two words not allowed in my house and they are Golden Brown. Now I wonder why that is. I realise he was able to frighten a lot of pensioners about their pensions, but even they must realise now how stupid they have been. This is a General Election if he uses the same arguments whilst we are in this benighted Union surely they will not work.

    87. thedogphilosopher says:



    88. arthur thomson says:

      @ Marie clark. I’ll put you down as a cynical.

    89. a2 says:

      “it’s exactly what he’s supposed to be there to do all the time.”

      No it’s not. What he’s supposed to do, is go to westminster and represent his constituents which is, as we all know, rarely what he actually does.

    90. jaygee says:

      We have lost democracy in Britain. The establishment have managed to corrupt the labour party with promises of peerages, great pensions and conditions of service for representing(manageing) their constituents.
      I think the Scottish population, thanks to an efficient SNP government and the tremendous input from Wings,etc have become aware of the Orwellian society in which we used to accept as normal.
      I wish the people in north England had a Sensible English
      Party (SEP) and a version of Wings.At present they do not have an option like we have in Scotland.

    91. Valerie says:

      Tears in my eyes, the memes have started on FB. We have the funniest and brightest on this side.

    92. JPJ2 says:

      I have seen this journalist on the Press Preview on Sky on occasion.

      She comes across as a rampant archetypal Labour fan with a typewriter.

      Balanced reporting?-it is not in her DNA

    93. karmanaut says:


      I agree. People believed him last time, but I can’t see that working again. It’s too soon to forget those lies. Labour are what they are: Poundshop Tories.

    94. Sinky says:

      Never forget that by backing Cameron, Osborne and Clegg over No Currency Union, Brown, Balls, Darling, Murphy and Miliband (who stated that no Labour government would allow Scotland to use the pound) were all prepared to wage economic war on Scotland should the natives be so revolting as to vote for self determination in a democratic referendum.

      As Iain MacWhirter said that was the moment the Westminster establishment lost Scotland.

    95. Grouse Beater says:

      Labour is El Cid, a corpse, he rides out strapped to his horse, at the head of his uninformed army to attack the enemy who had previously seen him mortally wounded.

      I like that analogy. 🙂

    96. Dr Jim says:

      The Vow Will Be Delivered
      Gordon Brown said that about equipment for the soldiers during the illegal Iraq war
      That never turned up either, firing blanks is about all Gordon Brown has ever done and anybody who believes differently will never be saved from these vile child abusing, genocidal serial liars
      Where’s the Chillcot report? “Crash”
      Murphy hiding it in the boot of his car?
      Oh, wait a minute, it’s my car, i paid for it

    97. caz-m says:

      “…and you will not be in a currency union with the rest of the UK, you will not be in Europe, there will be border posts erected, you will not be allowed into NATO, your pensions will… ”

      “Gordon, Gordon, wrong speech”


    98. Thepnr says:

      This picture shows how the Spanish people, like the Greeks feel about austerity and neo-liberalism.

      No wonder they fear the rise of the SNP in Scotland.

    99. Marian says:

      The Labour apparatchiks want Scots to revere Brown as some sort of wise elder statesman.

      Trouble is that Brown is none of these and just bullshit.

    100. Marie clark says:

      @ arthur thomson

      Moi! cynical, whatever would give you that idea. Good man yourself arthur.

    101. donald anderson says:

      The EBC loves fellow wafflers like Kate Devlin and has plenty of time for them.

    102. jim heraghty says:

      What are the figures, anyone? How does Gordon Brown’s referendum ‘intervention’ compare to other individuals’? In how many radio/TV/’town hall’ debates did Gordon Brown participate? In how many ‘difficult’ media interviews was Gordon Brown involved? Which other backbench MP had a full speech broadcast live? Which other opposition backbench MP was enabled to tell the ruling UK prime minister what to do? I think I know the answer to the last two.

    103. chitterinlicht says:

      as per above Crash Gordon was resurrected (again ) during recent Kirkcaldy East council by election. Knocking on doors etc


      Storming SNP win.

      This is Broons Toon remember.

      Well if anyone thinks labour voters who voted Yes would come back to labour my in laws fit this bill and its SNP all the way from now on. Something happened during #indyref

      Labour can shove their cereal up their arses.

      Full Scottish from now on Breakfast lunch and dinner (unless on 5:2 diet)

    104. alba46 says:

      Anybody else heard that the SNP have or are going to hire International Media Monitors to specifically target the BBC during the run into the GE??

    105. caz-m says:

      And I thought that Murphy was the man. He was meant to be in charge of all things Scottish-that didn’t last long.

      The Clunking Fist has just slapped Jimbo right out of the way and is now setting the agenda, whether Jimbo likes it or not.

      And while we are at it, where did Neil Findlay go to?

    106. Lollysmum says:

      This announcement tells us two things.
      1) Dim Jim has failed & his party now know that.
      2) It is extremely early in a general election campaign to bring out the failed, soon to be ex-politician to shore up the Labour vote.

      My conclusion-they are bricking it because they know they are losing badly -as if we didn’t know that already :-). Bringing him out this early allows us lots of time to debunk every little thing he says in public. Looks like we have months of fun & posting to come folks 😉

    107. HandandShrimp says:

      Good! We can quiz him about the Vow, Chilcott and Miliband’s NHS scare stories

      Should be a laugh if nothing else.

    108. Nana Smith says:

      Sorry for O/T

      Huge protests in England and Ireland today.

      Massive protests against austerity in Spain today. There’s a picture on twitter showing how many folk have turned out, it’s a huge protest.

      Greek economist speaking on the Kaiser report.

      Tess Munt on the fracking debate…

    109. McBoxheid says:

      wingman 2020 says:
      31 January, 2015 at 1:10 pm


      No takers?
      Labour has a Murphy arsehole

      I don’t know what arsehole is in spanish though

    110. M4rkyboy says:

      His BBC speech was a flurry of misrepresentation.They want to break up your family,they want to put up borders,they want to take away your pound,they want to force the banks out,they want economic chaos,they want Scotland undefended etc etc
      You go on the youtube page of the speech and its a load of English folk in the comments going ‘he’s so right’ ‘amazing speech’ ‘so astute’.
      I am perplexed at how fast people are able to accept the word of this prat as gospel.
      I suspect we’ll see more of the same.

    111. This is London Labour coming up here to tell Oor Jim and his gang Fat Bob,Soapy Souter and The Bairn that there `tea is just about oot`do something soon or you are for the chop.

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      Now excuse me if I’m not finding this situation to be in any way funny. You see I have, in the past been instructed in the use of small arms and worked for over 50 years in the MOD as an industrial Civil Servant and that means weaponry of one sort or another.

      This has taught me a valuable lesson. If you have a weapon, secret or otherwise, and you do not use it, practice its use and learn to treat it with respect it has a habit of exploding in your face. A long line of one eyed gunners, peg legged mariners and digitally challenge troops will testify to that.

      So Gordon is perhaps not so, shall we say, well oiled, clean and mechanically smooth as he once was. Such neglected weapons could well blow up in Labour’s face.

      We should be so lucky.

    113. Chic McGregor says:

      OT after stabilizing for 3 weeks looks like the recovery in oil price is getting under way, unless the Saudi’s step in again.

    114. Tattie-bogle says:

      Willie Bain comes in second place weighing in at a close 499 lb’s

    115. Another Union Dividend says:


      Its not just Fracking but also NHS and TIPP that Labour is all over the place.

      Did anyone watch Newsnight England on THursday evening?

      Labour’s headline policy of removing private sector involvement in the NHS was torn apart last night in a devastating Newsnight package presented by the show’s political editor, Allegra Stratton.

      It is the second time this week that the BBC’s flagship programme has given shadow health secretary Andy Burnham a hard time: on Tuesday he was the victim of an interview with presenter Kirsty Wark described by commentator Guido Fawkes as a “car crash”.

      Last night’s segment included interviews with Lord Darzi, a respected surgeon and former Labour health minister in Gordon Brown’s government, and Julian Le Grand, a former adviser to Tony Blair, both of whom attacked Labour for its plan to return “preferred provider” status to the NHS and reduce the chances of private companies conducting routine ops for NHS patients.

      Le Grand warned that Burnham would be “wasting” taxpayers’ money on the NHS unless he allowed private competition for NHS contracts.

      Darzi said it was irrelevant whether NHS care is delivered by the private or the public sector: the NHS should prefer providers who deliver the highest quality care – whether they are “public, private or not-for-profit”.

      ON TIPP, latest Private Eye issue exposes EDINBURGH SOUTH MP IAN MURRAY’S love in with big business and his office expenses.

      ” LABOUR’s support for the controversial trade deal being negotiated between the EU and the USA -the so-called “transatlantic trade and investment partnership” (TTIP) -shows Labour at its most politically incoherent, which is saying something.

      At the same time as proposing state intervention in everything from sugary foods to cigarette packaging and utility prices, Ed Miliband is nevertheless still backing a free trade agreement that will allow multinationals to use unaccountable international tribunals to sue national governments if the latter impose regulations the corporations don’t like.

      In a Commons debate secured by backbencher Geraint Davies last week, Labour’s shadow business minister Ian Murray broadly backed TTIP (while playing to public opposition by criticising the secrecy in which it is being negotiated). Asked by Tory Zac Goldsmith, who opposes the deal fearing it will harm food standards, whether the contentious dispute resolution part of TTIP was a “Red Line” for Labour, Murray admitted that his party’s objection was only to the proposal ” in its current form”.

      This will have reassured corporate fans of the deal, whose campaigning is run largely by lobbyists at British American Business. Among its directors is Greg Briggs, a partner in the giant accountancy firm PwC that has its own “international arbitration” team doing deals on existing trade agreements and for which TTIP will be a nice little earner.

      And who helps pay for Ian Murray’s Commons office? According to the register of MPs’ interests, it’s none other than PwC, which is giving him with a member of staff for six months at an estimated value of £45,000. No doubt it will be worth it -for PwC and its clients, anyway.”

    116. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      In French it is a cul and Faux Cul is the worst insult you can give a politician.

      I guess in Spanish it will something similar to cul.

    117. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Macboxheid

      culo falso

    118. Kevin meina says:

      Gordon Brown is a coward who has meetings in labour clubs with party members no open meetings or questions. When he was chancellor he was electioneering in Hatfield in Herts he obviously thought I was a shoo in for a labour vote he asked me what it was like living in Hatfield I replied council tax was a disgrace he ran away practically hates criticism can’t handle it

    119. J. R. Tomlin says:

      If the best he can do this time is the same as last…45% of Scots voted the opposite way…it will be a disaster for Labour. One can indeed hope he keeps up the good work.

    120. turnbulldrier says:

      @Wingman 2020
      31 January, 2015 at 1:10 pm


      No takers?

      Labour Hapless Against Many Activists


    121. Thepnr says:

      @Wingman 2020

      Labour Have A Moron in charge. OK doesn’t quite fit, but true none the less.

    122. David says:

      To caz-m, I think the Clunking Fist has become a Flunking Cyst – painful, and doesn’t do the job any more.

    123. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Krishnan Guru-Murthy on Twitter has tweeted

      Vince Cable seems to be suggesting to @cathynewman he’s potentially up for a deal with Labour even if they have fewer seats than Tories.

      Political putes,

    124. allen ralston says:

      But there’s no heavier hitter than Gordon thought that it said no heavier shitter . now that might be true

    125. caz-m says:

      Labour will soon have Darling, Reid, Robertson, Wilson and the rest of them coming out and reminding us of the glory days of 97′

      Ah, those were the days.

      And if you need reminding of how out of touch Scottish Labour really are, then take a read at this from the LabourList website:

    126. Calgacus says:

      How now brown vow?

    127. caz-m says:


      This speech on Wednesday at Westminster will be his scariest yet, he knows the game is up for him AND his band of merry men.

      The Party’s over,
      It’s time to call it a day,

      There’s a song in there somewhere.

    128. HandandShrimp says:


      I think Vince would have been up for a deal with Labour last time too. It will depend which Liberals survive the inevitable cull. If Clegg’s Orange Book Liberals hang on then they will still back the Tories but if the left of the party are the survivors then I think they will be reluctant to go in with the Tories.

    129. Juteman says:

      A 50 something gay man that gets married because a Brit Prime Minister has to be married. Enough said.

    130. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      I suspect there may not be enough LibDems to have any effect on anything post GE 2015.

    131. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m confused folks. No I mean SERIOUSLY confused not my normal confused. 😉

      This is from the labour list site linked to by Caz.

      A mansion tax on properties worth more than £2 million, the vast majority of which are in the South East of England, to provide funds for a thousand more nurses in the Scottish NHS.

      Now first of it is a given that I am this site’s resident Village Idiot. That said even I can remember something that was uttered by the great god of nothingness himself, Murph the Smurph, that went along the lines of him promising 100,000 MORE nurses than the S.N.P. can deliver.

      So my question is this.

      Who is LYING here?

      Was Murph the Smurph LYING about his 100,000 more nurses or is Labour List LYING about their 1.000?

      We need to know the answer to this question. How on earth can we discuss the Scottish N.H.S. with anyone if we do not know how many more nurses will be arriving after May?

      Oops I forgot we are NOT to supposed to know anything,m we’re too wee too poor and too stupid and should be put back in our wee boxes! 😛

      This is Labour in full pelt confuse the electorate mode. The reality of the situation is, as we all know, nothing like what they promise, either promise, cause they will deliver NO new nurses!

    132. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      It is 10,000 more than whatever the SNP Gov engage.

    133. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ah right got ya BtP. BOTH Murph the Smurph AND Labour List are LYING! 😀

      In other words it’s situation NORMAL! 😉

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @grahamlive says: 31 January, 2015 at 12:49 pm:

      “It really is baffling that the Scottish media hold him in such high regard. Isn’t he a failed Prime minister, …
      Aye! A failed PM, failed Chancellor and now also a thoroughly failed and discredited backbench MP who is a proven and very successful liar.

      Yesterdays men and women the lot of them.

    135. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Lesley-Anne

      As WGD so simply puts it, the whole lot of them (I paraphrase) that they would need somebody else to call the dug in for dinner.

    136. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for O/T but anyone up for a wee bit of Psychological warfare? 😉

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      thomaspotter2014 says:31 January, 2015 at 1:01 pm:

      … the Savior of the Universe will be rolled out to terrorise a pensioner near you very soon.

      Naw! thomaspotter, Naw he wullnaen fir in the first place ah’m the nearest pensioner tae me and A’h dinna vote Labour.

    138. Lesley-Anne says:

      Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Lesley-Anne

      As WGD so simply puts it, the whole lot of them (I paraphrase) that they would need somebody else to call the dug in for dinner.

      And that someone else is … drum roll please … the S.N.P.! 😀

    139. liz says:

      @Lesley-Anne – I would think folk like the Rev would be able to see through them.

      They will come over like concern trolls, try to pull you in and then try to confuse you.

      But they will then try to make us distrust everyone, should be interesting.

    140. liz says:

      O/T Gerry Hassan is on twitter trying to say that Derek Bateman is being bitter by remembering the betrayal of the vow and the lies.

      I have to say Gerry Hassan has always confused me – he is almost like a BT person, saying move on, get over it etc.

    141. boris says:

      The Murphy, (i’m not a Unionist) blog post updated

      Oh! and by the way there is no such entity as “Scottish” according to Murphy.

    142. Lesley-Anne says:

      Have no fear Liz Stu DOES see right through them that’s what makes site’s such as this one so great. 😉

      It’s not just Stu either, I think just about everyone on here sees Labour, London or Scottish branch, for what they really are … a big bunch of self elevating troughers!

    143. Wuffing Dug says:

      Ha ha it’s a big shite sandwich and they’re all going to have take a bite 🙂

    144. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The “Vow” may have changed a few people’s vote but I have met none of them and I rather think it was a grand diversion used to provide cover and justification for a final vote that is very hard to explain or understand.
      We are dealing with very clever people and we should never forget that.
      We have however quite successfully turned the Vow on to those came up with the deceit

      Most significantly this suggets that Murphy’s time has run out. More interesting are tales of Labour’s internal strife.
      Who will be first out the door?

    145. Wuffing Dug says:

      I used to read Gerry hassan’s turgid articles on news net, god knows I’ll never get those minutes back… the area between his arse and nut bag must be raw from riding the fence for so long. He’s is just another labour apologist.

    146. JayR says:


      Who the hell is Gerry Hassan? He drones on and on about vested interests, same old narrow politics in Scotland, elites etc. But what is his background and “qualification” to do so? He’s been around for years doing this, but who elected him? What is his agenda? How come he is always on tv or in the press spouting off with the rest of the elite?
      Just another talking head and another “I am not a unionist”

    147. muttley79 says:

      Even for the dire standards of the MSM, this on going hero worship of Brown is really getting ridiculous. They make out that Gordon Brown is some kind of a political colossus. The facts suggest otherwise. Brown was a very bright student and academic, but he was actually terrible at politics. Labour were going to win under John Smith, the Tories were an absolute shambles under Mayor, and were tearing themselves apart over Europe. The idea that Blair and Brown were political maestros and geniuses does not correspond with the facts, or with close and critical scrutiny. They were lucky to take over when the Tories had destroyed their own credibility for well over 10 years.

      Instead of delivering meaningful change, Blair and Brown almost entirely blow the best change to change the UK for a very long time. In fact, their love of playing Robin to Bush’s Batman, PFI and privatisation ultimately let the Tories back in, along with their complete failure to reign in the greed of the banks and the financial system.

      Brown did not help develop any real political talent, he in fact completely hindered it, and he lacked the skills necessarily to lead and motivate people. There is no equivalent to Sturgeon that Salmond allowed to blossom and develop. Brown deliberately destabilised the last Labour government, and all because of his own personal ambitions. He left the Labour Party in the shit and gutter, unlike Salmond, who left his party with a record level of membership, and a very able and talented new party and national leader as well.

    148. I thought that Brown was retiring as he lost his moral compass during the referendum. Perhaps this will be our last opportunity to quiz our unelected ex PM on so many matters that occurred during his career that need answers. Did he know and agree with Sir Nicholas McPherson’s attitude of democracy. I can understand a man doing things for that one last moment with his Darling, but really screwing a whole nation, is a bit much that even being Slabber does not excuse.

    149. JBS says:

      @wingman 2020
      31 January 2015 at 1:13 pm

      That’s what you think. If I get sued the bailiffs will be round your place faster than you can say “Jack shit”…

    150. crisiscult says:

      last time Brown took his eye off the ball …

    151. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It should be remembered that when Charlton Heston came down the mountain with the big tablets, he found his mates worshipping Billy Idol.

      Brown must be delighted to find that Murphy is about as popular as a dose of the clap, and that could be good news for us too – it’s going to make his heid even bigger than it was, and (fingers crossed) he’ll hang around and piss-off as many folk as possible between now and May.

    152. Clootie says:

      Gerry Hassan was one of the most effective Trolls for BT during the Independence campaign. I acknowledge his remarkable skill in “appearing” to be almost YES and then suddenly slipping in a concern or doubt.

      He is Labour through and through and a skillful troll assigned a mission.

      I confess he fooled me at the start of the independence campaign but his tactic became very obvious after about 6months.

      The thing I pity him most for, is that he knows just how bad Labour is but is still working for them. He deludes himself that they will return to pre-New Labour at some point.

      Ignore him and certainly don’t trust him.

    153. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please check out Richie Venton’s most recent blogs – important stuff.

    154. HandandShrimp says:

      Murphy and Brown should be an interesting combination or have the buried the hatchet?

    155. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      You know this is all group think.

      Labour is gonna do so much better than we all expect from current polls. It’s down to money and the application at the right time.

      In the last 2 weeks before GE 2015 (just like the indyref) they are gonna pull out all the stops and go for Project Fear 2.0. Then a load of uniformed folk are gonna get scared and vote for the UK Labour under the most glaring lies, but it will all be too late.

      I don’t know how to stop it.

      SNP need a great big push for donations to help them stop it. I guess if we want Scotland back we need to buy it back.

      If someone smarter than me does then let’s hear the ideas.

    156. Roll_On_2015 says:

      Jim Richmond

      JR there is another screw up that Jimmy Broon did that made many low wage earners grateful to him He increased the lowest tax band of 10p to 20p. This one factor has been written out of history by NuLabour.

    157. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      p.s. I will be voting Green Party after Independence Day, but I have priorities.

    158. r esquierdo says:

      Tax cheat

    159. One_Scot says:

      Well said Clootie.

    160. PictAtRandom says:

      “Scott Borthwick says:
      31 January, 2015 at 1:05 pm

      Those familiar with Scots vernacular might further concede he’s a walloper”

      And what was the “Cash For Clunkers” scheme about anyway?

    161. ronnie anderson says:

      And guess who the Winners are in supplying our new chatterbox army brigade 77 Corperate America ie Apple Sony ect ect.

      There making a mockery to the memory of very brave men (Chindits) in comparing them to a unit of Internet CHINWAGGERS.

    162. ronnie anderson says:

      The recruitment drive for the Boots N Bullets Army was such a success with the young people NOT, they have changed tact in recruiting Internet Hackers more appealing to the younger person with the skills & a gold badge to boot.

      Rev kin you Upgrade the Griffin to Gold.

    163. Graham Ballantyne says:

      The serial/loser sulker rides to the rescue of the Shameless Liar. How desperate must ScotLab be to turn to one of the most inept PM’s in history – and that’s saying a lot – to save their skins. They’ve lumbered themselves with mediocrity Murphy and now it’s clear the hype isn’t working…roll on May 7 – bring it on!

    164. Ferncake says:

      So, we can now expect another carefully choreographed round of ‘public’ meetings, at which the audience will comprise very carefully vetted New Labour stooges with a smattering of Cheshire cats like Curran and Baillie sat grinning in the front row.

      I assume too that The Great Clunking Fud of Scottish politics will appear on telly in a hard hat and safety specs alongside some fresh-faced apprentices, but ALWAYS at a defence-related establishment as befits a fully paid-up Atlanticist.

      All we need now is for Archie McPherson to reprise his Sermon On Mount Vernon, and to quote Yogi Berra, it will be deja-vu all over again.

      Bring. It. On.

    165. heedtracker says:

      If someone smarter than me does then let’s hear the ideas.

      This time Slab won’t be able to bring up all their BetterTogether activists that helped save the breakup of their country, in that last ref week of hysterical Project Fear blast. Presumably they’ll all be too busy with English red tory stuff but probably going to fail by the looks of it.

      And BBC Scotland’s Vote Murphy/Slab Or Else stuff is going to look even more ridiculous next to all the Tory boy media going hell for leather to keep Cameron in. You can watch same BBC in Scotland as they get in England.

      BBC is just the same as the Daily Torygraph and Heil and Express and Press and Journal and rancid Graun…

      Boots boss: Ed Miliband would be a ‘catastrophe’ for Britain
      Stefano Pessina, the acting chief executive of Boots, says the Opposition leader’s plan for power is “not helpful” for business or the country, in a major blow for Labour’s election campaign

    166. gillie says:

      Hot off the press.

      “It already seems clear that in their campaign the Tories intend to spread falsehood, fear and smear. They will seek to avoid open debate and scrutiny. The Tories will dig deep into their donors’ pockets – and plumb new depths – in their desperation to cling on in Government.” – Douglas Alexander

    167. karmanaut says:

      Some odd, and extremely loaded, comments here tonight, folks. I hope McTernan is paying overtime for them.

    168. Stephen Armstrong says:

      The propaganda-wing of the British State, is perhaps their strongest weapon.

      But Brown still has the respect of the core British vote in Scotland…underestimate him [and them] at your peril!

      The British know that their time is running out, but they will fight to the bitter end to delay the inevitable.

      Do not expect an SNP walkover in 2015 and 2016….the British may have other ideas!

    169. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry folks but he’s off on one again! 😀

    170. Stephen Armstrong says:

      The propaganda-wing of the British State is the mainstream media:

      the British press, online news, radio, and of course the ugly tentacles of the BBC…

      …otherwise known as the Biased Broadcasting Corporation.

    171. Gary says:

      No intervention, no secret weapon, no vow, no substance, no home rule now, no home rule later. The spinners invent the concept and gave it no other substance, Brown is the front man and the press are the willing publicists. The Daily Record presents it as being a document on a front page spread, as though its real, it even includes fake signatures. A non existent document with non existent policies and non existent signatures reported ad nauseum. A real document, 600 pages, answering all questions, free upon request, ignored, disparaged and vilified.

    172. alexicon says:

      Does that mean to say Boots will be pulling out of Britain with thousands of job loses if labour get voted in?
      Sounds stupid doesn’t it, but it was the very same scenario that labour used in their scaremongering referendum campaign to say that companies would move out of Scotland.

    173. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for O/T here but this opinion poll result has just been tweeted

      A poll for tomorrow’s Observer puts @theSNP level with LibDems *in UK-wide* poll

      LAB 33%
      CON 32%
      UKIP 18%
      GRN 6%
      LD 5%
      SNP 5%

      I’m thinking that we will no doubt be hearing wee Davie boy claiming that he won’t do the T.V. debates unless the S.N.P. are included now as well. 😀

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      @Stephen Armstrong says: 31 January, 2015 at 9:58 pm:

      “The propaganda-wing of the British State, is perhaps their strongest weapon.”

      There is no such entity as a unified British State. There are in fact five independent British States, (at the moment).

      These are the bipartite United Kingdom, (a kingdom, not a country which is comprised of four countries). The non-UK Republic of Ireland, The two non-UK Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey and the non-UK Isle of Man.

      Ergo – no such things as THE British State, Parliament or Country exists.

    175. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well it looks like there are some *ahem* interesting headlines in Sunday’s papers.

      Sunday Times going on £26 million tax breaks for stars.

      Sunday Express has a side bar headline on 300 more troops being sent to the Falkland’s.

      Sunday Telegraph has a headline about Boot’s chairman claiming Labour win would be a catastrophe.

      The Mail has a headline about the Labour knives being out for ‘loser’ Ed.

      I think if Sunday Express has any running in its troops story then we may be looking at the posibility of a Maggie Falkland war part II if we are not careful! Jeez … these damned politicians just can’t help themselves … bloody warmongers!

    176. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lesley-Anne (10.00) –

      Cheers for that. Haven’t seen him for ages. 😉

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @jaygee says:31 January, 2015 at 3:39 pm:

      “We have lost democracy in Britain.

      When did we ever have democracy in the UK part of Britain?

      1284 The Kingdom of England annexed Wales by force.
      1584 The Kingdom of England annexed Ireland by force.
      1603 The crowns of the two independent kingdoms of Scotland & England ended upon the same Monarch’s head but they remained independent.
      In 1688 the three country kingdom of England had The Glorious Revolution and deposed King James II of England but as Scotland was still an independent Kingdom that did not legally depose him as James VII of Scotland. This started the Jacobite Uprisings, (1688-1745). Not a rebellion as you cannot rebel against a foreign monarch.
      1706/7 The forced and cheated Treaty of Union between only two equally sovereign kingdoms. Two Kingdoms in Union but included four countries.

      Then we have The Establishment split up the United Kingdom along country lines but retaining Westminster as the de facto parliament of England and thus it is effectively the Parliament of England devolving the English Parliament’s powers to the three other countries.

      Do you call any of that democracy?

    178. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lesley-Anne (10.00) –

      Cheers for that. Haven’t seen him for ages. 😉

      Doffs hat! 😉

    179. Bob Mack says:

      Anyone have any information on this new army unit the 77th. I ask because whilst regularly posting on Facebook over the past few weeks,I am detecting a noticeable rise in the number of posters who clearly have forces background and knowledge. They do not seem casual posters but are armed with newspaper quotes,and pre prepared arguements re the bad S.N.P.
      It just seems too coincidental

    180. Tamson says:

      Now, now, let’s be fair. Insofar as being an MP – in the context of appearing in the Commons, doing surgeries, and being seen around his constituency, basically doing his job – Gordon Brown is an extremely well-kept secret.

    181. heedtracker says:

      alexicon says:
      31 January, 2015 at 10:17 pm
      Does that mean to say Boots will be pulling out of Britain with thousands of job loses if labour get voted in?

      I dont know. Look at austerity teamGEnglandB, middle and upper class England or everyone with a good job hasn’t been touched by ConDem cuts, so I would guess Cameron’s Con’s will get the same kind of NO vote win in England that saved England’s control of Scotland.

      Unless you’re at the bottom of teamGB, UKOK life is good. Clegg’s LibDem’s look like they’ll deservedly get wiped off the face of English politics because blue and red tory world always needs a whipping boy, with the English Greens getting good press now.

      Future PM Milliband just wont happen and the only chance for Scotland is vote SNP 7th May 2015, otherwise we’re well fcuked.

    182. Fred says:

      Is Brown even playing with a full deck? for a long time now I’ve thought that he is barking, a bit like Captain Queeg crunching the ball-bearings in the frenzied search of the ship for the missing strawberries.
      Pause for the gantin mooth and the paper squaring gestures. “I learned my morality from my father the Rev’ Broon”.
      A box of frogs is a perfectly sensible prospect by comparison.

    183. Rock says:

      Who cares about The Herald?

      We have The National which will be exposing Labour lies during the election campaign.

    184. Middenheap says:

      So, to use a bit more of the vernacular, regarding the 500 pounds of brown stuff, isn’t he more of a toly than a tool.

    185. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 31 January, 2015 at 7:12 pm

      Sorry for O/T but anyone up for a wee bit of Psychological warfare? 😉

      Well, Lesley-Anne, I’ve been on the internet under one guise or another, for as long as there was an internet. Lots of Newsgroup stuff for years and most of it either Scottish culture and/or politics. Came across many a squaddie in that time and, by the large, they were quite easy to send up as numpties but they were by no means all numpties. I imagine these guys will be something else again. I have no doubt, though, the way to identify them will emerge.

    186. Rock says:

      Labour have only one policy or *ahem* principle – gaining power at any cost.

      There is no depth they will not sink to to achieve their aim.

      With the unconditional support of the likes of the BBC and The Record, they will still manage to get around 25% of the vote in Scotland.

      I just hope that the Socialist and Green vote will not split the anti-Labour vote and let them win in many constituencies.

    187. Lesley-Anne says:

      Rock the Sunday Herald is not run by the same crowd as the Herald. They have totally independent editorial teams which are also different from the National but all have the one owner.

      You are more likely to find pro independence articles, pro S.N.P. articles in the Sunday Herald than the Herald which definitively sticks to backing Labour.

    188. HandandShrimp says:

      On a wander on the interwebs I came across this which made me smile

      If I read that correctly Ian Murray’s argument seems to be that they abstained on the fracking moratorium in Westminster so the could test it on the English first. Because as we know Jim Morphy is in favour of a moratorium here and he is Ian’s boss.

    189. Paula Rose says:

      Rock honey do keep up – tomorrow is Sunday, different Herald.

    190. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rock –

      With all respect – if it hadn’t been for the Sunday Herald, we wouldn’t have the National.

    191. SquareHaggis says:

      Interesting donations maked in yellow

    192. Rock says:


      “I have to say Gerry Hassan has always confused me – he is almost like a BT person, saying move on, get over it etc.”

      He IS a BT person, giving the false impression to Yes supporters that he isn’t.

    193. Effijy says:

      God gave the great unwashed who believe in this man the chance to see that his jaw drops every time he lies. For God’s sake look!

      Our Gordie Brown Gray Train wasn’t happy with the 15,000 registerd charities that exist, he need his own just like his Right Wing mentor Tony Mair Blair. He spend £10,000 per week on average for expenses representing his own Charity.

      He hasn’t sent a penny to food banks as this could mean him having to rough it in 4 star hotels or use Taxis instead of Limousines.

      He was the man in charge of the UK when we hit the recession,
      he was the man the Tories and Lib Dems blamed for excessive borrowing, he is the man who took £billions from personal pension plans, he was a major player when Scotland was robbed of 6,000 miles of maritime waters, the man who made the Vow he denies making.

      Yet another Right Wing Red Tory who has filled his own pockets at the expense of the electorate

      Have you forgot when he left his mike on and vilified an OAP, Gillian Duffy. He is a two faced sycophantic toady.

      Was he and George Robertson friends of Thomas Hamilton, the Dunblane Killer, and suspected pedophile? How would we find out when Blair covered up the Police reports for 100 years?
      Must be some good reason of this for cover up!

      You want to listen to this impostor of a socialist and humanitarian??????

    194. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “Ergo – no such things as THE British State, Parliament or Country exists.”

      They do, to almost everyone else in the world.

    195. sinky says:

      Andy Burnham’s car crash with Newsnight’s Kirsty Wark is well worth a watch:

      A very tetchy Shadow Health Secretary began the interview by admitting “there is a role for the private sector”, then piled into the Tories for putting “all services” at the hands of the market. As Kirsty politely pointed out, only 6% of NHS services have been outsourced to the private sector, and the vast majority of that was done by Burnham’s Labour government:

    196. Sinky says:

      Andy Burnham’s car crash with Newsnight’s Kirsty Wark is well worth a watch:
      A very tetchy Shadow Health Secretary began the interview by admitting “there is a role for the private sector”, then piled into the Tories for putting “all services” at the hands of the market. As Kirsty politely pointed out, only 6% of NHS services have been outsourced to the private sector, and the vast majority of that was done by Burnham’s Labour government:

    197. Rock says:


      “They have totally independent editorial teams which are also different from the National but all have the one owner.”

      *Ahem*, as independent as the BBC and The Record are from the Labour party.

      Buy The National to keep loss making The Herald going.

    198. Paul D says:

      A wee aside to comments from Boots; Alliance Boots which owns the Boots brand is as I recall a private equity effort that moved its headquarters to Switzerland a few years ago in a move that quite by coincidence apparently saved it a few quid in UK tax.

      (This was from memory but quick search backs up my recollections)

      Maybe Stefano Pessina (the chairman) is under some strange misapprehension that the Labour party has leftwing tendencies and out to make those nasty companies pay their fair amount of tax?

    199. Rock says:

      Ian Brotherhood,

      “With all respect – if it hadn’t been for the Sunday Herald, we wouldn’t have the National.”

      And without the money being raked in from Yes supporters by the Sunday Herald and The National, Magnus Gardham’s loss making 6 days a week Herald would have ceased to exist.

      That would have been a better option than a quasi pro-independence paper which is currently irrelevant as there is not going to be another independence referendum any time soon.

      Even 99% Yes support is irrelevant at the moment.

    200. Grouse Beater says:

      Peffers: no such things as THE British State, Parliament or Country exists.

      Rock: ”They do, to almost everyone else in the world.

      You got that wrong.

      In my travels around the globe, it’s ‘England this, and England that, and a good game of cricket, and the Queen of England. England is, to many, the entire British Isles.

      Yes, clued up foreign journalists refer to the “British Parliament” – but two years of intense Referendum debate now cause them to hesitate while they ponder if they are witnessing the break-up of the Union, and on the wider front, the death throes of neo-liberal rule.

    201. Al says:

      Sunday Herald is reporting that Cameron has confirmed that the air rescue centre to be moved from Moray to Hampshire.

      This will be that pooling and sharing we were told so much about last year. You can bet they won’t be moving the Trident base to Hampshire!

    202. Grouse Beater says:

      Ian Brotherhood: Please check out Richie Venton’s most recent blogs

      Many thanks for the interesting read, Ian.

      Has the SSP benefitted in increased membership from the Referendum like other parties?

    203. Grouse Beater says:

      Rock: there is not going to be another independence referendum any time soon.

      Erm … (looks at ceiling and then shuffles feet) not committed to the cause of self-governance, then?

    204. Jim McIntosh says:

      11:24 – interesting donations

      Looked at Diane Abbot

      “29 May 2014, £500 received for taking part in part of the Selfridges Beauty Project. Address: Intelligence Squared, Newcombe House, 45 Notting Hill Gate, London W11 3LQ. Hours: 4 hrs. (Registered 3 June 2014)

      Surely that’s taking money under false pretences. ??

    205. boris says:

      Defence officials have secretly been conducting well advanced, closed-door contingency planning exercises examining proposals to move, from their base at Faslane in Scotland to Wales, Britain’s four Vanguard Trident ballistic nuclear missile armed submarines.

      Coulport on Loch Long, eight miles from Faslane, where the warheads are stored (The sites are kept separate for safety reasons) will be converted to munitions storage in support of the conventional fleet.

    206. HandandShrimp says:

      Square Haggis

      Not sure who the John McGuire is (Phoenix Cars CEO maybe and possibly a Labour supporter) but Alan Massie? Is that a typo for Allan Massie the Tory or is it a different person?

    207. Rock says:

      Grouse Beater,

      “In my travels around the globe, it’s ‘England this, and England that, and a good game of cricket, and the Queen of England. England is, to many, the entire British Isles.”

      I don’t know which parts of the globe you travel to.

      But it was the British Empire and the whole world, especially the formerly colonised world, talks about ‘British’ when referring to the country of which London is the capital.

      We talk about the British establishment.

      Even the French and German words commonly used for this country are the translations of ‘Great Britain’.

      For all practical purposes, anything to do with the political country that is called the UK is referred to as ‘British’. The ‘British’ state very much exists.

      And it was the 70% elderly British Nationalists in Scotland which lost us the independence referendum.

      Everything to do with the ‘British’ state is what we independence supporters want to get rid of in Scotland.

      But then Robert Peffers of *ahem* North Britain bangs on about our right to be called ‘British’ after independence.

    208. Paula Rose says:

      Rock dear – go and listen to some soothing music, off-topic is a good place to start.

    209. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Rock dear – go and listen to some soothing music, off-topic is a good place to start.”

      If only Robert Peffers of North Britain could post his *ahem* ‘British’ history and geography lessons on off-topic.

    210. RogueCoder says:

      Anyone here still up? Good!

      You know that dreary #SNPout hashtag the unionists are using to coordinate attacks on Twitter?

      Somebody had the brilliant idea of hijacking it using pictures of pouting people. That way it will replace the propaganda messages in search engines as well as Twitter itself.

      Google for a suitable Pout picture – funny is better for retweets – and tweet it with the hashtag #SNPout. Funny captions welcomed.

      Retweet any you receive – although obviously not the BritNat ones 🙂

    211. Chic McGregor says:


      Dinna fash yersel aboot the Brit propaganda.

      Thurs ae thing thon monster his nae wie o thwartin.

      Facts are chiels that winna ding.

      Somethin wur ane true champion Stuart Campbell his proven
      ower an ower again.

    212. Paula Rose says:

      Rock sweetest, Robert Peffers and Lesley-Anne are two of our most revered commenters, please behave.

    213. Grouse Beater says:

      Rock: I don’t know which parts of the globe you travel to.

      You do. Countries that refer to Scotland, England and Wales as ‘England.’ The USA is the worst offender.

      By the way, life is not a matter of either or; either you’re right or I am right. We are both correct but for different reasons.

      Outside the UK, generally we are referred to a ‘England.’ Inside generally we talk of the British establishment – when we really mean … you guessed it – England.

    214. Bob Sinclair says:

      I believe it was a fellow winger who took the initiative with the latest failed BritNat hash tag.

    215. liz g says:

      Borris @12.50
      Not sure that article will be accurate!
      CND do a great job of explaining why moving Trident would be nigh on impossible. (Sorry can’t do links)
      I am more concerned about reports that they are planning to have all their sub’s moved up here,to a country about to leave and that has made it clear the base is for our own defence!!!

    216. bookie from hell says:

      Jim doing a St Peter(denial)

      VOTERS will “switch late and switch big” to Labour at the general election, enabling the party to hold all 40 of its Scottish seats, Jim Murphy predicted

    217. john king says:

      Whats all this hysteria about Broon for?
      You would think he was The Gorgon (he he Gordon the Gorgon) or something,
      just look at him in a mirror,
      you’ll be fine.

      But just cover you ears if he sings his Siren Song, he’ll draw to to your doom with that sweet lilting melody of his will lull anyone.

    218. Calum says:

      I fear this is all going to end horribly….hilariously. Can’t wait.

    219. john king says:

      “I fear this is all going to end horribly….hilariously. Can’t wait.”

      The only concern I have with that Callum is that 55% (or at least a winning percentage) could not see what was obvious to us!

      I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who is uninformed and to a certain extent unconcerned and see what is happening though their eyes, and its too difficult I cant in all honesty imagine how they could not see what is being said and done by these people to them,

    220. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Rock, you are either a Troll, a curmudgeon, or an erse.

      Anyway, the first thing I do when I read a thread your opinion is, not bother to read it.

      You are doing well, whatever it is.

    221. Take independence says:

      He’ll do nothing why because everyone knows Brown like Murphy are only performing monkeys for English Labour Party and their pay cheques and bonuses and god knows what else at the end of every month, Johann Lamont’s said it all Scotland is only a branch office of London this is the first thing Johann Lamont’s said that I agreed with, it’s a petty she didn’t say during the referendum. The only thing brown will bring is more discontent for the Labour party and stronger support for the SNP “Bring it on”. What has Labour party done for Glasgow or Scotland in the last fifty years nothing and trust me when Ed Miliband gets into power nothing will change it’s only the SNP that will delivery for Scotland. Where’s Alistair Darling, that right he also was sidelined for Brown, it makes you smile how worried Labour are.

    222. Dr Jim says:

      Captain Queeg
      Nice one….

    223. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jim McIntosh says:1 February, 2015 at 12:14 am:

      “Surely that’s taking money under false pretences. ??”

      Beauty is, proverbially, in the eye of the beholder. so a muckle female Orang Utang would probably think you a puckle ill-faured an shilpit.

    224. McBoxHeid says:

      Rock says:
      31 January, 2015 at 11:33 pm

      Robert Peffers,

      “Ergo – no such things as THE British State, Parliament or Country exists.”

      They do, to almost everyone else in the world.

      As my name suggests, I live in Germany, where anyone that lives in Great Britain is refered to as “Englander” by most people. When I explain the difference between the 4 counties, invariably the answer I get is, I didn’t know that, I thought it was all England and the other lands were just regions like NRW, Bayern in Germany.

    225. Author_al says:

      Seems Rock may be one of the super new online Chindits who swoop stealthily through the virtual world, saving the British Establishment with his guile and tactical derring do. Or he simply may be a sad delusional troll who prefers to impart casual insults and leaden humour to zero effect. Desperate attention seekers will be put on the Naughty Step…

    226. Helena Brown says:

      May I say I have to agree with both Grouse Beater and Mcboxheid,I too have found that Britain is completely interchangeable for England, had a small run in with a friend who declared Scotland/England same thing, I then went on to explain would she describe Canadians as the same as the US, she lives in the US. It happens the world over and then with England/Britain/UK being completely interchangeable in the Media why could that be.
      I agree with Robert also about the Great Britain this or that on the Beeb, not that I watch them, hardly making people here feel patriotic.

    227. thomas says:

      @ Rock

      “Even the French and German words commonly used for this country are the translations of ‘Great Britain’.”

      Colloquially the french almost exclusively refer to the “british” as “les anglais” so dont be disingenous. Remember they have a north western region within their country inhabited by the british as well , or celtic bretons ,” little britain”.

      Many countires may or may not refer to these islands as britian , but the inhabitants are almost exclusively referred to as english. As they make up the bulk of the population its not hard to see why britian/england , british and english are very much interchangable.

      just to set the cat among the pigeons norther ireland isnt part of britian , its part of ireland but a region of the uk.So the term british to refer to the inhabitants of the uk is technically wrong.

    228. Papadox says:

      @Mcboxheid 9:02 am

      Having travelled overseas Extensively prior to retirement I totally agree with your statement plus the USA is as bad if not worse than the others. Vee are little ENGLANDERS, YA

    229. Jim McIntosh says:

      @Robert Peffers

      “Beauty is, proverbially, in the eye of the beholder. so a muckle female Orang Utang would probably think you a puckle ill-faured an shilpit.”

      Beautiful prose and very elegantly put, but on further consideration I still believe, as the bard might have put it:

      “I think somebody should have gone to Specsavers”.

    230. Papadox says:


      Wee duggy the terror of Pisley is headin North tae gi big Jimba and GORDY a hawn oot wi puttin wee Nicola in her place. Visiting hours for PAI will be posted in labour papers. Wish the three o them speedy recovery. (They can claim their PRIVATE medical insurance) it’s an ill wind…

    231. ClanDonald says:

      Oh for goodness sake, just because technically, (due to the geography of N. Ireland)the British state doesn’t “technically” exist doesn’t mean we have to stop using the term. The “British State” and “British Establishment” are very useful descriptions and I’m not going to stop using them just because of someone’s geographical pedantry. And it’s a lot more convenient than saying “The establishment of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”

    232. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rock says:1 February, 2015 at 12:56 am:

      “In my travels around the globe, it’s ‘England this, and England that, and a good game of cricket, and the Queen of England. England is, to many, the entire British Isles.”

      Indeed it is if you are poorly educated or biased.

      … it was the British Empire and the whole world, especially the formerly colonised world, talks about ‘British’ when referring to the country of which London is the capital.

      Indeed it is correctly so as the UK is indeed British but no more British than the British Republic or the British non-UK Bailliwick of Jersey. Furthermore, the Capital City of England is London but London is also the Capital City of, (NOT BRITAIN), but The United Kingdom.

      “We talk about the British establishment.

      Which term is grammatically and factually correct but no more correct than the British archipelago that contains also four non-UK administrations and countries.

      “Even the French and German words commonly used for this country are the translations of ‘Great Britain’.

      What country would that be, Rock? “Great Britain”, does not refer to a country. It refers to the greatest, (largest), island in the British archipelago and it contains three distinct countries but is not itself a country.

      For all practical purposes, anything to do with the political country that is called the UK is referred to as ‘British’. The ‘British’ state very much exists.

      Wrong again, Rock. “UK”, is the initial letters of the title, “United Kingdom”, which, as it describes itself, is a Kingdom comprised of only two former independent Kingdoms – only one of which was also a single country. Thus neither of the terms, “UK”, or, “Britain”, are countries.

      And it was the 70% elderly British Nationalists in Scotland which lost us the independence referendum.

      Pure speculation, Rock, Perhaps you can provide proper researched figures for that spurious claim?

      “Everything to do with the ‘British’ state is what we independence supporters want to get rid of in Scotland.

      Again, Rock, every country in the British Isles is obviously correctly British. That term is not synonymous with United Kingdom. Furthermore, you are not spokesperson for the entire independence movement in Scotland.

      “Everything to do with the ‘British’ state is what we independence supporters want to get rid of in Scotland.

      Wrong again, Rock, What we independence, for the Kingdom & country of Scotland, seek independence from is not Britain for nothing can remove us from the British Isles. It is independence from the United Kingdom only. There is not even a majority movement to make Scotland a republic and Elizabeth is Queen of England but only Queen of Scots.

      But then Robert Peffers of *ahem* North Britain bangs on about our right to be called ‘British’ after independence.

      Wrong again Rock. My country is Scotland. For your obviously deficient education, Scotland is a country and kingdom in the British Isles. As a Kingdom it is an equally sovereign partner kingdom with the Kingdom of England in the United Kingdom and it correctly is indeed North Britain. Just as England is south Britain and Wales is West Britain, (mainland) and Ireland a west Britain island.

      Now here is the error you not only consistently make but are now idiotically and ignorantly attempting to justify. The United Kingdom is, as its title describes it, a kingdom while Britain is a group of countries on the islands of Britain. Perhaps you should consult an English Dictionary for the definitions of Country, Kingdom, United and British. While all related, one to the other, they each have distinct meanings of which you seem particularly ignorant.

      On which subject I should perhaps point out another error those of a less than good grasp of the English language also often misconstrue. “Ignorant”, does not mean stupid – it means, and I quote the dictionary,

      ignorant (adjective)- lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

      So, Rock, can we please not now go down the road of accusing me of saying you are stupid? Thing is you should no longer be ignorant of the true facts as I have just correctly explained your ignorant abuse of the English terms you use to make your points.

      My source, if you require it, is The Concise Oxford Dictionary of the English Language. Perhaps you may wish to take your disagreements on the use of the English Language up with them?

    233. Caroline Corfield says:

      I like using the UK of GB and NI, and that’s because it’s important to remind the listener/reader that that is indeed the name. If you use the proper names for things then you have set a psychological picture. That’s why the Greeks insisted on The Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia, as a name for their new neighbour. They believe Macedonia is Greek and in Greece.

      It might seem like semantics, and it is, but the game of semantics has been started, given the impact psychologically that it can have, it would be silly not to at least play some defence.

    234. gillie says:

      Crisis? What crisis?

      Ed Miliband believes Blairites are out to get him. Miliband overruled Jim Murphy in pulling Scottish Labour MPs back to their constituencies. New Statesman attacks Miliband. Ed Balls smacked down by Miliband. Labour MPs in deep depression. Talk of Shadow cabinet rebellion.

    235. galamcennalath says:

      YES, to most of the world, most of the time we are all English, anglais, ingles, englanders whatever.

      When I hear someone make that mistake, I find a good way to start the educational process is to use a phrase like…

      To an English person, “You French are all the same!” They of course immediately comeback “I’m not French”, to which you can reply, “Well I’m not English!”

      To an American, “You Canadians are all the same!”
      To an German, “You Italians are all the same!”

      The message is conveyed instantly in terms they understand!

    236. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rock says:31 January, 2015 at 11:33 pm:

      “Ergo – no such things as THE British State, Parliament or Country exists.”

      They do, to almost everyone else in the world.

      Am I to assume, from your claim, you have consulted, “almost everyone else in the World”, in order to make such a claim, Rock? What’s more have you verified that their response was factually correct?

    237. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Peffers

      You’re really giving Rock a bit of a spanking this morning.

      What’s he ever done to you? LOL.

    238. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      You heard it here folks!
      BBC Politics page: ‘MP Murphy to stand down at election’…

      no, don’t start the cartwheels yet, it’s only his Welsh namesake (and just as servile to the British imperialist state)….
      nearly had you going there didn’t I..!
      Mind you, it could be a forerunner to Jimmy John’s election address late on May 7th anyway! What’s left (well, not left as in Left !) of East Renfrewshire Lab., get ready for one …. of a fight on your hands! Storm’s a-comin…

    239. Famous15 says:

      Anyone for tennis?

    240. Grouse Beater says:

      Anyone for tennis?

      Murray is holding … 🙂

    241. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Grouse Beater

      but what is the name of the batsman?

    242. BILL says:

      Slightly OT but relevant to Brown:

      Tesco Kirkcaldy wont close, its being used as a political football between Fife Council and Tesco. The roof requires a 700k repair which Fife Council are dragging their heels on and this is during a quarrel about rate rises that Tesco are complaining about.

      Tesco wanted to extend the store into the Postings shopping mall and aquire warehousing from the TA centre but the council object.

      Tesco are playing a game: the council will repair the roof/carpark and the store will remain open.

    243. thomas says:


      calm down my man and stop building straw men. If your post refers to me where did i say you couldnt use the term british. I am simply pointing out the mentality of the westminster elite and their mythology and delusions.

      The six counties are not part of great britian and further the inhabitants have the right to not call themselves british or carry british passports.

      Wether they are referred to as the british elite , westminster elite or whatever , the point of the matter is wether they wish to refer themselves to by re inventing an ancient celtic name that went out of fashion in the 10th century and then was re introduced by an anglified scottish king as a sop to his celtic subjects sensibilities in the 17th century , we all know who they are and what they stand for and why we want independance from them.

    244. Dr Jim says:

      When i lived in Spain i gave a geography lesson to the local primary school teachers “yes you heard me teachers” as to where Scotland was and why i was not English, also that even though we are the sticky up bit that does not mean they should teach that we were a peninsula of England, I also had cause to offer a similar explanation to the Guardia Civil in Valencia who i worked with, because all of these people are just ordinary folk and not waiters in holiday resorts so to them if you speak english, you’re either English or American and most ordinary folk abroad don’t like either…
      In Texas i once explained to a perfectly reasonable man that Scotland was not in fact a place in England
      I could mention other countries but you get the point

    245. Robert Peffers says:

      @Helena Brown says: 1 February, 2015 at 9:19 am:

      ” … had a small run in with a friend who declared Scotland/England same thing, I then went on to explain would she describe Canadians as the same as the US, she lives in the US.”

      Now, Helena, you have exposed another strange anomaly. The correct title of that particular country is, “The United States of America”, yet to the citizens of that country they are exclusively, “America”, and thus exclusively, “Americans”.

      Truth, though, is that the, “Americas”, run almost pole to pole of the World and the north-most point of The Americas is Kaffeklubben Island, (also the most northerly point of land on Earth). The south-most point is the islands of Southern Thule, (sometimes considered part of Antarctica).

      In between there is South, Central and North America with their very many countries. Including, “The United States of America”, (USA), and, United Mexican States, (UMS), (Spanish: Estados Unidos Mexicanos). Mexico is a federation comprising thirty-one states and Mexico City a, “Federal District of Mexico”, its capital and largest city.

      North of the USA is Canada and the USA state of Alaska. Many people do not realize that Greenland is also part of the Americas. The most southern part of the Americas is Cape Froward in the Magallanes Region. Often people think Cape Horn is the southmost point.

      Now I expect to be, “Rocked”, to my very foundations by being informed that everyone in the World knows the Americans are exclusively USA citizens. While the Mexicans are Mexicans and the Canadians are Canadians and the Greenlanders are Scandinavians. I wonder what the Falkland Islanders will turn out to be? I wonder also how many consider the World to be flat?

    246. Lollysmum says:

      Robert Peffers
      You’re on a roll now. Good man 😉

    247. Lochside says:

      Robert Peffers you are a pedantic bore. However, you have a wee fan club of sycophants who are making this site a no go for proper discourse and discouraging new contributors.

      Anyone who disagrees with your meandering musings on the origins of the meaning of ‘British’or ‘Britain’is treated to frankly insulting contempt in return and treated as a potential ‘troll’.

      So please, go and write a book about ‘Britain’ and define it until you disappear up your own fundament.

    248. Grouse Beater says:

      Caroline; I like using the UK of GB and NI,

      And I always like what you have to say, but should have said so before this.

    249. Grouse Beater says:

      In many respects the question is less, ‘what does being British mean?’ as, ‘what does being English mean?’

      English have called themselves British for so long they no longer are sure what it is to be English. Ask them and you a blank stare, or some negative, or some sort of arcane romantic notion of cricket on the green.

    250. Paula Rose says:

      People use British cos Ukish sounds a bit yeuchish.

    251. Thepnr says:


      I don’t believe Rock is a troll, I believe he is very passionate about Independence but in a different way from most who post here.

      In his view, we can’t wait for another referendum though he doesn’t believe in UDI as he has stated? I’m not sure what other means there are to Independence and it would nice if he could tell us.

      However, he chooses not too and often in his comments makes a rod for his own back with his attitude towards other posters. He rarely (if at all) makes any attempt at “proper discourse” other than to get into an argument.

      His disparaging remarks directly to Robert Peffers in this article and previous articles is deserving of a response.

    252. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says:1 February, 2015 at 2:19 pm:

      “I don’t believe Rock is a troll, I believe he is very passionate about Independence but in a different way from most who post here.

      I’m not too sure myself, Thepnr, and I have a nose for smelling out trolls. It has had lots of practice through the years. The thing about Rock is that there is almost never any evidence offered nor even any reasoning. I may well fail to back up my views with evidence or reasoning but I always attempt to argue on the grounds of one or both.

      This is why I engage with Rock – If I thought Rock a troll I’d just ignore the posts. I learned to debate in a set of hard schools. A primary school debating society, then on to secondary school and then as a Trade Union Rep where it reached the level of Westminster Government Ministers like Michael Heseltine, (Secretary of State for Defence from 1983 to 1986).

      You cannot convince anyone of anything by saying, “blah! Blah! Blah! Everyone knows that”, but say, “”blah! Blah! Blah! and here’s why and the evidence to prove it and they haven’t got a leg to stand on. So whether all Rock’s experience is that only the Kingdom of England countries are part of Britain or not all evidence says otherwise. You cannot base a whole independence campaign upon the wrong beliefs of people ignorant of the truth.

      Perhaps the worst offender to use Britain when speaking about the United Kingdom is David Cameron so the trick of debating with such a person is to interrupt him each and every time he makes a wrong claim. No matter how bad mannered that may seem. Just watch any Cameron speech and count how many times he gets it wrong. Do you imagine he does so by accident or ignorance? It is downright propaganda. No more and no less. Why go along with it?

    253. Thepnr says:

      Labelling someone as one thing or another is a mistake. Unless you too are happy to be labelled.

      We are all sycophants to some extent, simply because we believe.

    254. Natasha says:

      My problem with Rock is that his posts are without exception depressing and demoralising, and often personally offensive (having said that, I have to admit to having indulged in a fair bit of winding him up, so maybe I just got what I asked for).

      That’s why I said the other day that I feel stuck between a Rock and a hard place. Our motto was – and still is – Hope over Fear; I see no hope whatsoever in anything that Rock says, and that’s what makes me wonder what his real agenda is.

      Rock thinks I’m arrogant (and he’s right, I often am) but I also have a sense of humour – something he could do with developing – and I try to be nice to people sometimes. I don’t think I’ve ever read any post of his where he just says something nice or encouraging to or about anybody. A fairly revealing insight in to character there.

    255. Robert Peffers says:

      @Natasha says: 1 February, 2015 at 5:44 pm:

      “My problem with Rock is that his posts are without exception depressing and demoralising, and often personally offensive …”

      Well, Natasha, having been supporting the SNP since around 1946 as a schoolboy I’m fairly immune to depressing and demoralising setbacks. It’s been a bit like that game of, “Whackamole”. We kept popping up here and there only to be whacked but popping up somewhere else to be whacked again.

      Rock may or may not be among us to depress and demoralise us. If so he’s on a hiding to nothing. Better Establishment figures than Rock have tried and failed. I imagine Rock is not among us with the intent to demoralise and depress but is rather demoralised and depressed himself.

      If so Rock needs to learn the way to succeed is not to meekly accept the Establishment’s propaganda by going along with it but to demolish their claims by first not accepting them and to turn them back upon them by proving them wrong.

      Here’s an example of how their propaganda can be turned back upon them. Take what started out as a Unionist derisive insult – “Your all evil Cybernats”?

      I say, “Your right – I’m a Cybernat and proud of it. Trouble is the FM seems to have lost my email address for I’ve not had any instructions yet”. Now the whole idiotic implication from the Unionists is that instructions are sent out by the SNP leader to, “Cybernats”, who all do exactly what they are told to do. It never occurred to them that there was no conspiracy but that it was the spontaneous feelings of the general public all moving in the same direction. A clever and sensible Unionist would have been worried by it and sought to change the Unionist mantras to appeal to the general public instead of closing ranks and insulting them all the more by name calling, ad hominem, labelling or whatever else you care to call it.

    256. Rock says:


      “Robert Peffers you are a pedantic bore. However, you have a wee fan club of sycophants who are making this site a no go for proper discourse and discouraging new contributors.

      Anyone who disagrees with your meandering musings on the origins of the meaning of ‘British’or ‘Britain’is treated to frankly insulting contempt in return and treated as a potential ‘troll’.

      So please, go and write a book about ‘Britain’ and define it until you disappear up your own fundament.”

      Well said.

      Everytime one of these ‘sycophants’ post, the tone of the debate is *ahem* lowered.

    257. Rock says:

      Ok, apparently we are all little Englanders.

      hardly anyone knows in the world knows the difference between a Scot and and an Englishman/woman.

    258. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      Did you ever apologise properly for that racist comment you made?

      No, you brought your late grandmother into the debate.

    259. Grouse Beater says:

      People use British cos Ukish sounds a bit yeuchish.

      “Who are the SNP? It’s our country!” [meaning England.] More here:

    260. Heidstaethefire says:

      Can’t really see why you’re getting tangled underwear over this, we’ve much bigger fish to fry Personally, I’m very glad the Viceroy has seen fit to “intervene” butt in, participate in the discussion, bump his gums, stick his neb in, pontificate or anything else. It has the potential for much profit to us.

    261. Brian Doonthetoon says:


      That link now takes you to this page. Something going on in the background?

    262. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi crazycat.

      Read that a minute ago!

      I wonder if that solicitor, who posted on WOS earlier today, has been in touch with Rev Stu?

    263. yesindyref2 says:

      Possibly better this way. Bearing in mind the material was already inadvertently in the “Public Domain”, there should be a whole rake of journalists and investigative reporters watching this saga very very carefully.

    264. Roger says:

      Well now, thank God for the wayback machine is all I can say.
      There you can find things that were published online but were later deleted…

    265. ronnie anderson says:

      Hows now brown cow chist exercising my bowels ( sorry Vowels )

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