The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The logical progression

Posted on December 05, 2019 by

We all remember this happy time, right?

Of course, it didn’t work out like that in practice.

So maybe we shouldn’t be entirely surprised that it ended up with this being the SNP candidate in what until 2017 was Alex Salmond’s seat.

“A vote for me […] what it absolutely is not is a vote for Scottish independence and I will never ever try and claim it as such”

You can see the whole video here. Good luck voting SNP for independence, folks.

Print Friendly

226 to “The logical progression”

  1. James Munro says:

    So, who should we vote for?

  2. Conan the Librarian says:

    2013. September. I got my wee Wings badge outside the pub on the High St. The march to Calton Hill. Brilliant.

    And where are we now…?

  3. tridentitycrisis says:

    All very well and good, but the only thing this stream of anti-SNP blogging is going to achieve is to lower the SNP vote. And for what purpose? You’re not going to advise people to vote Green, that’s for sure. The SNP has many faults but it’s our ally in the independence cause. We should certainly be highlighting their shortcomings, but doing it now can achieve nothing positive. Can you imagine the blow to morale if the Tories win seats that they should have lost? I hope you will at some stage advise people to vote SNP next week, even if only while holding their nose or as the least of all evils. Criticism is to be welcomed, but wanting purity is something which you yourself have rightly condemned. Last time out in 2017 it was independence/SNP supporters staying at home which cost the SNP seats. Don’t, please, encourage that disheartening process to happen again

  4. ghostly606 says:

    Ah ok. I only vote SNP for independence…. should I not bother then?

  5. haggis_trap says:

    So : one week from a massive general election where Scotland simply must stand firm and vote SNP. Last 3 articles spend energy attacking the one party who can deliver independence.

    Readers can draw their own conclusion what the motivation might be. No more donations to WoS from me.

  6. JPJ2 says:

    ? If you hope that there will ever be an independent Scotland you MUST vote SNP.
    To do anything else is self-harming and de facto pro Union.

  7. James Munro says:

    There is something not right with this post… almost as though it’s not been written by its author? Ah, conspiracy theories…

  8. potter says:

    Fuckin hell,its the Daily Mail..SNPBAD.

  9. Republicofscotland says:

    If Sturgeon fails to deliver independence she’ll be gone anyway, or folk will lose faith in her.

    Effectively of recent she’s banged on about indy next year, so we must at the very least give her the benefit of the doubt that she’ll be as good as her word, or that she fights hard for it.

    Yes independence is the party’s overall aim (I hope) however I can understand her position on Brexit.

    Which she has shown that if she could stop it she would. Paradoxically that position could weaken the indy cause, but its a gamble in order to persuade those who want to remain in the EU and the Union, to chose the EU via Scottish independence, and in the process show just how flawed the union really is.

    I’d also say that SNP candidates in marginal or unionist held seats might not want to trumpet independence over policies, which could cost them seats.

  10. Donald says:

    Tory Policy – We hate Indy.
    Lib Policy – We hate Indy.
    Labour Policy – We Approve of Independence for every nation on earth. Bar Scotland.
    SNP Policy – Been known to be favourable ;-).

    That’s your choices. You might not be best taken with the SNP but if you want an independent Scotland any time soon (geologically speaking), they’ve got to get your vote.

  11. Robbo says:

    Firstly Stuart I am a great admirer, follower and supporter of yours and appreciate the hard work to expose Unionist lies and deceit. However whilst I agree with the content of your last two articles I would question whether this is the time to raise what are clearly contentious issues for the SNP and the wider public support when we have possibly the best opportunity for Independence that may never present itself certainly in my life time. As a 71yr old I desperately want to see a free Scotland and given the responses to your articles thus far I am genuinely frightened this is in danger of fragmenting. It seems to me we are unintentionally presenting our enemies with ammunition to damage the cause.

  12. msean says:

    I’m not a party member or anything,so I’m wondering how a chap gets to be a candidate for the SNP,but doesn’t want to claim a win as at least an indicator of a tiny leaning towards independence.

    I’m not in that constituency,but what is that about? Is this a thing more widespread in the party?

    I’d like to know before I vote.

  13. AyrshireScot says:

    Is a vote for SNP Westminster candidates a vote for independence?

    A vote for IndyRef

    Is a vote for SNP a vote for radical trans TWAW agenda?

    No

  14. George Falconer says:

    Something fishy going on here, or petulance max toys oot the pram.

  15. Alexander Wallace says:

    The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

  16. crisiscult says:

    We will definitely need a ‘Brexit/UKIP’ equivalent in Scotland on the pro indy side next elections to ensure the SNP stay on track (obviously I’m just talking strategy for indy, not in terms of left/right politics). However, I’m not sure this is the best time to tackle the SNP’s obvious failings for a similar reason to those already set out here by others i.e. there’s no-one else you can vote for in this election. If Satan themself (gender neutral there) was standing for the SNP I’d be voting for him/her/it in this election sadly.

  17. AyrshireScot says:

    Is a donation to Wings a donation to promote independence of Scotland, analysis and discourse on Wings site of independence and Unionist arguments, or money spent to run a homophobic, anti-trans personal grievance site obsessed with anti-trans nonsense and homophobia?
    I would like my money back

  18. John Moss says:

    Sounds like this is one man’s take on things. Can’t see this as a claim the voting for the SNP won’t secure independence. Will need to see some real evidence from you to prove your point. Why not ask our First Minister directly?

    Go to the best source and ask a straight question.

  19. Dan Watt says:

    So Stu, how do we achieve independence without the SNP? Have we all been kidding ourselves the entire time?

    Given the theme of the last few articles here, I’m also wondering what you think the solutions are to the problems you are highlighting?

  20. Mark Fletcher says:

    I’m not voting Tory. Not in a million years.
    I’m not voting Labour. They’ve had too many chances.
    I’m not voting Lib Dem.They are shifty and sleazy.
    I’m not voting Green – not after the repeal of OBFA.
    I’m not voting Pig in a Poke or Monster Raving Independent. No.

    I’m not going to wait decades for another independence party purer than the driven snow to appear and rise to power.

    I am going to vote SNP.

  21. AyrshireScot says:

    Best vote in support of independence is SNP, correct?

    Stu now demands Nicola resigns, and SNP what “explode”?

    What is best vote for Scottish independence?

    What was purpose of doners to Wings, c £400k, before we learned he was an incel homo and trans phobe?
    How do we get our money back?

  22. Artyhetty says:

    Hmm, indeed. However, what will inspire people in Scotland, those undecided, or fed up with Tory Johnson lies, who don’t want a far right wing fascist UK, but who will never vote Labour, or, Labour followers, fed up with Labour being so pathetic on Brexit, promising the world, yet committed to replacing Trident at a cost of hundreds of £billions, and those knowing that the Greens are a wasted vote, and ultimately the millons of people, in Scotland who do not want to be dragged out of the EU?!

    Their options are, to vote SNP, and the anti Brexit message needs saying because we can be damn sure the Britnats have done everything in their power to make sure Brexit is hardly mentioned, nevermind at the centre of this GE. This GE is ABOUT BREXIT!

    If the SNP win as many seats as possible, especially gaining seats, then they have a much better and more solid argument to demand a Sec30, when Brexit does happen! They know it’s being imposed and that Scotland is screwed when England’s elite get their dirty scheming ‘Brexit done'(!).

    The only thing Scotland can do at the moment is vote for a party that is a) anti Brexit, b) working FOR Scotland’s best interests (to say the very very least!) and c) the ONLY party capable and willing to take the bull by the horns and get independence ‘done’!

    Ie the SNP, yep issues to sort out, majorly, some weird dodgy stuff going on right now, very convenient don’t you think, anything to stop people actually voting for the SNP at this hugely scary BREXIT driven GE and era in the so called UK!

    Not good to demand our FM stand down, really not cool.
    If anything some indepth investigation into WHO/WHAT is orchestrating the divisions would be more useful. It’s not just an innocent few who really care about trans people, or anti semitism, it’s deeper and goes much higher, than the few supposed SNP folk smearing and demonising high profile, very effective SNP politicians! Plants, easy fckg peasy. and I don’t mean the green leaved types!

    There is much to do, it can be investigatory, or more smears, which is best at this crucial time? We must all keep apace and keep our wits about us, otherwise we all fall into thye BRITNAT TRAP, and by god they have the power and money to get what they want!

  23. tartanfever says:

    So presumably if this is not a vote for Scottish independence then at no point in the next Westminster parliament (5 years) will the SNP ask for a Section 30 order.

    Because that would be using this election to claim we have a mandate for a referendum when categorically stating that votes for the SNP would not be used for such a purpose.

    Christ on a bike..

  24. Old Pete says:

    Vote SNP, saying otherwise shows a true love of a red, white and blue UK anti-Scottish supporter.

  25. Ian McCubbin says:

    Well tridentcrisis has a point. All the candidate launches I have seen and Bern at highlighted that a vote for SNP is a vote for Independence.
    This is overstated here on what o e candidates perception is

  26. Ann says:

    See Fife Councillors have got nothing better to do than put through a policy to stop SNP asking for a Section 30. Why? Apparently they don’t have a mandate and it would be a disaster for Scotland……as if BREXIT isn’t….and who were the protagonists???? Tories backed by Labour. Nuff said.

  27. Mist001 says:

    People in Scotland HAVE to vote SNP because what are the alternatives? Tories? Labour? That other lot?

    Vote SNP and then after the election, fuck ’em. We’ll get a new party together and leave the SNP to rot but until then:

    VOTE SNP.

  28. Bob Mack says:

    Stuart, Your about to become the focal point for many frustrated SNP voters, and I dont mean in a good way.

    In ancient times it was difficult to find a messenger to deliver bad news, because it ultimately lead to the bearer of bad news being executed.

    This will happen to you too.

    Everything you have pointed out over the last few articles is actually true, but that for now will carry no weight with those despefate to believe their life ambition is coming soon.

    The need to believe will overcome common sense and reason,and you wil! be branded the problem, allowing them to cling to their belief.

    You will be abandoned by many Stuart, but keep going.

    The fullness of time is in your case your friend, not your enemy. They will learn you were right and they were wrong.

    In the meantime they will slink off and find another Messiah, having nailed the last one to the cross of Independence, following the scourging you have endured already on their behalf.

    Always be true to yourself Stuart.

  29. I’m really beginning to think that the real Stu is locked up in the tower of London being waterboarded daily while MI5 have now infiltrated WOS. Pretty sad stuff otherwise.

  30. dadsarmy says:

    Good God, we didn’t even have to wait 24 hours for the next anti-SNP article. Yippppeee, another due first thing in the morning, BoJo will be wetting himself.

    Vote SNP on Dec 12th or become BoJo’s chanty carrier.

  31. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Cheers, Bob. I’ll keep telling the truth whether it’s fashionable or not. And so far as the SNP are concerned, I’d direct people to some wise words from history (and BTW, no, I don’t mean the last bit as a reference to myself):

    “Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King.”

  32. Colin Alexander says:

    From the SNP manifesto:

    “A vote for the SNP in this election, therefore,
    is a vote to endorse the following position:

    • the people of Scotland have the right to choose their own future in a new referendum
    on becoming an independent country,

    • it must be for the Scottish Parliament not Westminster to decide when an independence referendum should be held – and the SNP intends that it will be in 2020.

    An SNP election victory will be a clear instruction by the people of Scotland that a new referendum on independence should be held next year, on a precise date to be determined by the Scottish Parliament”.

    Positive statements on indy compared to previous manifestos, so I’m giving the SNP my vote this time.

  33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Go to the best source and ask a straight question.”

    Go on, then. Give it a shot. Because she sure as fuck won’t answer me.

  34. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Gotta say, folks – there’s an SNP candidate, in Alex Salmond’s old seat no less, saying that a vote for the SNP absolutely definitely isn’t a vote for independence, after the party promised independence would be “at the centre of” its campaign, and it’s ME you’re angry at?

    Wow. Okay.

  35. kapelmeister says:

    It’s not a good idea having a winter GE. Everyone’s way too tetchy.

  36. msean says:

    Well,I just viewed the whole video online,and it adds more clarity to the 19 second edit.I hadn’t veiwed it until I caught it on Wings Over Scotland.

    Although I believe,along with many others, that a vote for the SNP IS a vote for Scottish indepedence,I can understand where he is coming from.

    What it doesn’t make clear on the extended version is whether he,as an SNP MP,will vote for an Indyref if the opportunity arises.I assume he would vote for an indyref,although those Tory voters he is trying to get wouldn’t want to hear that,of course.

    Too many politcal parties leave stuff out of their communications that should be made clear even though everyone knows what they (the political parties,all of them) are all about.

    I’m voting SNP,and they CAN take my vote as a vote for Scotland’s independence,it’s not for anything else. 🙂

  37. Scott says:

    Which other party wants Scottish Independence besides the SNP none so voting for another party is for the Union so as far as I am concerned its SNP who are not perfect,as someone who has always wanted for Scotland to be independent it must be SNP,after we get that it will then be up to the people to vote for what ever party they choose.
    VOTE SNP.
    PS Did you see Boris with the pair on thismorning a big difference from the way Corbyn a right pair of Tories.

  38. tartanfever says:

    Idiotic to blame Stu.

    He’s not the one who has just claimed that he will not use your vote for Independence.

    Imagine for a moment that this guy is elected. And then imagine at some point next year Nicola Sturgeon asks for another Section 30 order or even mentions having a mandate for a referendum. Which YouTube clip will be trolled out from dusk to dawn on every news channel and front page to counter her ?

    Yes that’s right, this guy.

    Seriously hope to God that he is not elected because it will not be worth it.

    Secondly I enjoyed Wee Ginger Dug on why he’s voting SNP and his support for Nicola Sturgeon. I like Nicola Sturgeon to. But the problem isn’t her, it’s frankly the numpties surrounding her. Paul doesn’t address that.

  39. Terry callachan says:

    There may well be a man in A Salmonds old seat saying a vote for him is not a vote for independence
    He would not be lying
    This vote is a GE not a Scottish independence referendum

    First things first
    He wants unhappy Lib Dem , Labour , Tory voters voting for him on a platform of local policies
    Eventually he will ask them to vote for him in a Scottish independence referendum and by then he will have some hard evidence to show that he can be trusted and perhaps that will some NO voters
    To vote YES

  40. Surrender Joris says:

    @tartanfever

    Yeah, I’m sure if a Unionist is elected in his place the MSM will be hailing it as a crushing blow to Unionism. Haha.

  41. Colin Alexander says:

    Stu

    I’ve long said that a vote for the SNP should be a direct vote for indy.

    But,the SNP abandoned that policy 20 years ago, and went with their British Empire devolution indyref policy that made indy an optional extra.

    The SNP has prioritised seats in the subservient devolution chamber at Holyrood and at WM instead going for indy. So, nothing new about this GE NOT being a vote for indy.

    As for a British Indyref, it was tried and shown to be rigged by amongst other things a very biased state media. Indy is higher in the polls these days so like you, “I hae ma doots” about there being any indyref in 2020. But, I’m going along with the SNP line for now and will vote for them.

    It will allow them to be put to the test and either they deliver or they don’t. For growing numbers in the YES movement this will be the SNP’s last chance saloon.

    I think it’s positive to keep the pressure on the SNP regarding delivering on indy but still think you should have waited another week.

    As a positive way of keeping up the pressure, I would like to hear your alternatives to the SNP’s manifesto.

    You were the one in 2015 comparing Scotland unilaterally dissolving the Union to white Rhodesian colonials declaring UDI, so what’s your view now? Do you have any positive ideas?

  42. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You were the one in 2015 comparing Scotland unilaterally dissolving the Union to white Rhodesian colonials declaring UDI, so what’s your view now? Do you have any positive ideas?”

    Sigh. I’ve laid out what my strategy would be a hundred times.

  43. Fable says:

    Sorry but I’m now going to delete your site— thought better of you stu

  44. Stuart MacKay says:

    Clearly the Rev. wants to keep the pot as close to boiling over as possible. So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to get out there and take the future you want or run back to your mammies?

    Get off your arse and vote. Don’t like the trannies blocking the main road to independence. Fucking quit yer whining and do something about it.

  45. Alasdair says:

    Never posted here before watched in awe as wings dealt with msm shite, sadly wings have lost the plot.
    It started with all that bollacks about gender ..and now this, finished me.

  46. Proud Cybernat says:

    You may well be right, that doesn’t make the rest of us wrong.

    It’s as well you never aspired to be a comedian because your timing is shite.

  47. Helen Yates says:

    It should be obvious to anyone who has been paying attention that Independence has been on the back burner with the SNP for a while now, I said to my husband weeks ago there is no way there will be an Indyref next year, I believe unless Boris wins this election there won’t be one on the horizon for the foreseeable future, I also don’t believe Boris will win, I expect Corbyn will though and without the need for support from SNP, if he does and if he transforms the country as I believe he will then the reasons for Indy will have been diminished drastically, no Brexit, people seeing a change all over the UK, being better off financially, why would they then want the upheaval of another Indyref, I hope I am wrong and I hope there is another party on the scene soon as the SNP are now only interested in being in power and arguing for more powers, sadly you are going to take a lot of flak for speaking the truth but time will show that you are right, I will vote for my SNP candidate on the 12th who is Peter Grant because I believe he is a good man, I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to vote for the likes of Alyn Smith, McDonald, Mhairi Black or a few others and I certainly couldn’t vote for this one who is unbelievably in what was Alex Salmonds seat, it’s a difficult time for the movement right now and I expect things will get a lot worse before or if they get better. please don’t give up on us as that would be the final nail in the coffin for the movement.

  48. Neil Munro says:

    Has wings been hacked? The posts are getting sillier by the day.

  49. Joe says:

    Im laughing now.

    No. Not the way dedicated indy campaigners have been treated by the SNP.

    Im laughing at people blaming WOS for pointing out SNP policy as if its WOS that’s going to damage their chances in the election and not the policies themselves.

    Oh jesus. lol

    I mean, the only reason Boris Johnson looks like a lying, boorish fuckwit is because people point it out, right? Otherwise he’d appear as a smooth, sophisticated statesmen I suppose.

    I knew there was a lot of less than A grade thinkers who commented here but that level of confusion takes the biscuit.

    Democracy is only as good as the ability of voters to think things through. Its not a bright future, to be honest.

  50. Colin Alexander says:

    Stu

    Offering a deal with the Tories for a s30 is clearly a non-starter. Even if it were a possible, the Tories currently look like they will win enough seats to get their Brexit even if its with the help of North of England Brexiteer Labour MPs, for if Corbyn disnae win this one he’s finished as Labour leader.

    You said we need an indyref. So, how else would you deliver that?

    Your Wings party? Another party to help the SNP administer the Scotland colony at Holyrood or what would it aim to achieve?

    I’m genuinely interested, no having a go. If you want to put more ideas forward?

  51. Bugger Le Panda says:

    Conan the Librarian says:
    5 December, 2019 at 6:55 pm
    2013. September. I got my wee Wings badge outside the pub on the High St. The march to Calton Hill. Brilliant.

    I remember it well

    And where are we

  52. Dan says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says: at 7:52 pm

    Go on, then. Give it a shot. Because she sure as fuck won’t answer me.

    Ach, just gie yersel a rainbow twibbon and a quick name change to Stuella Campbellina and she’ll respond. You probably won’t even have to shave…

  53. John Jones says:

    I’m really pissed off by all the crap that’s surrounding the SNP at the moment.
    I’m a socialist who has loaned my vote to the SNP for years, I don’t agree with the gender indentification crowd and the stop Brexit mob either.
    My only aim is to get independance by any means possible, if that means voting with all the “nutters” then so be it.
    Civil disabedience is not out of my way either and I’m no chicken at over 75, As I said before independance by any means bar none.

  54. Terry says:

    I think I see your strategy. I think it might work – it usually does if you follow the truth.

    And by the way folks – talk of all these different mandates for Indy. Only one of them bears any weight and that’s the 2016 vote followed by the holyrood Parliament vote. Even if snp end up with zero seats on Thursday that still stands til 2021.

  55. ElGordo says:

    Can’t see any way back from this week or the last 6 months tbh..

    What happened?

    Did you do an Arthur Fowler with the WBB cash down the Casino?

  56. Scot_Brand says:

    Hey wait a minute, you need to get you facts straight here. Richard is our local candidate. He’s up against Colin Clark who has “no to indyref2” plastered on billboards in every farmers’ field from here to eternity.
    Richard will have been responding to questions about Clarks billboard message.
    It looks as if you’ve taken his comment out of context here.

    Richard is an avid independence suppprter.

  57. Stoker says:

    Just a few points.

    Firstly, you just beat me to it Terry (8:17pm). Nobody seems to have seen this as a strategy to win over Remainers who are currently, if anything, only tepid on indy. Remember, not every fan of the EU is a guaranteed indy vote. Not yet anyway.

    Secondly, reading this and the previous 2 articles and most comments i am struggling to see where Stuart has told folk to not vote for the SNP. He’s doing what he’s always done, voicing his view and concerns. I happen to agree with a lot, if not most, of what he says and i’ve been feeling that way for some time now. But the SNP are the only vehicle to get us to indy and until that changes with something more direct coming into the game the SNP will be getting my votes.

    Lastly, the only thing i disagree with Stuart strongly on is his timing of this. I would have liked him to hold out a little longer until after the GE but hey, shit happens. At the end of the day we cannot pick-&-choose when we want to hear someone speak their mind and when we don’t.Also, as such an influential person i’d like to see Stuart not giving this faction the spotlight they crave, not just now anyway.

    And just as a wee food for thought moment folks. A touch of reality, even as nasty as it is. My MP (spits forcefully) John Lamont is anti gay equal rights/marriage etc etc.

    He won the last GE in the Borders seat by over 11,000 votes. The vast majority of us fully support those rights etc etc but one has to also be a realist & savvy enough to understand when you can & cannot shout about them.

    Some issues, in the real world, are still treated with nineteen-canteen attitudes and are still disliked by a lot of folk. In the words of the song: You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run.

    Goodnight, Troops, stay safe.

  58. Sharny Dubs says:

    Last chance saloon! I like the sound of that.

    I’ll vote SNP this time (and have done all my life) for Independence, but if they blow this mandate (presuming we are successful) then I’ll be handing my card in and head for sunnier climes, unless someone comes up with a viable alternative.

    As always Stu, keep on keeping on.

  59. Kenneth McDougall says:

    READ the comments here Stu, your quickly losing the huge following you so much worked hard to build up
    Most of the people who visit this site I’d say 75% are SNP supporters and your pissing them off. WHY? There has to be a Reason… Are you trying to harm SNP and therefore the cause of independence? Have they threatened you? Have they offered you money? Or… Is this ego is this a big EGO at work trying to further your own political career, hopes and aspirations at the expense of SNP and or independence?? You come first eh? Not Scotland not independence but YOU AND YOU EGO !!

    I’m also gonna make a bold prediction here and that is that your next fund raiser will suffer badly because of your horrible attitude lately ! You don’t need to apologise for anything just get back to doing what you do well and stick by Scotland and independence and debunk all the lies and myths of the unionist establishment
    I once wrote that ”I trust you with Scottish sovereignty” …. I no longer do

  60. boris says:

    The Update – Colin Clark – With his eyes on a peerage

    Clark is hoping voters in the Gordon constituency will forget he failed to support the Scottish Tory leadership in their disagreements with Boris Johnson’s hardline no-deal Brexit policy.

    His actions assisted Johnson with his strategy, which was designed to force Ruth Davidson to resign from her role as leader of the Scottish Tories.

    And he was rewarded for his backstabbing with a job at the Scottish Office working under his co-conspirator Alister Jack who replaced David Mundell.

    Jack and Clark are the only Scottish MPs to be blessed with a role in Johnson’s, Scottish Office government but Clark got a kick in the teeth when he was told that the Worcester MP Robin Walker had also been given a ministerial role at Dover House, an appointment giving him the honour of being first English MP to work at the Scotland Office since the 19th century.

    Adding insult to injury Clark was also told Walker, as a junior minister would be paid around £25K a year but Clark given the title of parliamentary undersecretary at the Scotland Office, as well as being appointed as a junior whip will need to work for nothing since the positions to which he had been appointed did not exist.

    (Johnson is permitted to appoint up to 115 ministers to government posts at an annual cost to the taxpayer of around £10million)

    Yet only a few months before Clark was singing his praises about Davidson’s achievements as a leader and even after getting her out.

    He and his fellow conspirators compounded their abuse of their ex-leader by sending out tens of thousands of mailshots with her picture emblazoned prominently, with a personal plea asking voters to vote for her.

    But she is not their leader. Johnson is. But his popularity is so low in Scotland any use of his image was vetoed by the media moguls that control the party and its policies.

    And all this from an MP who effectively told the voters of Gordon, (who recorded one of the highest remain votes total in the European Referendum) to get stuffed.

    Even the fish markets and fishermen, who supported his election as their MP have deserted him now that the Tory fisheries policy has been revealed.

    Ports in Scotland are in danger of being run down with fish transfers from ship to shore relocated to Europe to avoid high tariffs.

    https://caltonjock.com/2019/12/05/tory-mp-colin-clark-mp-a-brexiteer-at-any-cost-ignores-the-views-of-the-electorate-who-voted-to-remain-in-the-european-community-and-his-party-is-betraying-the-fishing-industry/

  61. Jock Wishart says:

    I’m done. No more referrals no more dosh. I’m out.

  62. Brian Lucey says:

    Looking in from the outside it seems that the Indy movement is falling into the trap which many do. All or nothing. Purity at all costs
    Y’all might wonder if the words of General Collins about the anglo-irish treaty of 1921 ring true “It gives us freedom, not the ultimate freedom that all nations desire but the freedom to achieve it”
    From what I can see there are 2 parties – SNP and Green – pro independence. If for whatever reason you vote else or abstain, then you run the risk of nothing.
    From an Irish perspective of course that is wonderful – the last thing we need is another english speaking educated friendly neutral nation horning in on our act 🙂
    So, I will watch with interest what transpires.
    (yeah, I know Mick Collins literally died in a ditch for his views. But he won the wars to get the state established)

  63. Bob Mack says:

    Someone at SNP HQ bas decided that the majority of Scots voted to remain in the EU. Therefore to promote the General Election on that Brexit strategy rather than Indy is a possible way to garner votes from across the political spectrum.

    Simple enough, but it also means not mentioning Indy which is the core function of the party,

    We either accept this or reject it.

  64. Jaygee says:

    James Munro @ 7:08 pm

    I was having similar thoughts.
    Very disappointing so near this critical election to get bogged down by things which would need Scottish Parliament to approve them after independence so therefore can be postponed till then.

  65. Iain Hamilton says:

    Bugger Le Panda says:
    5 December, 2019 at 8:48 pm

    Conan the Librarian says:
    5 December, 2019 at 6:55 pm
    2013. September. I got my wee Wings badge outside the pub on the High St. The march to Calton Hill. Brilliant.

    I remember it well

    And where are we

    I remember it well too. I remember meeting, Man in a Jar, Bugger le panda, Major Bloodknock and Morag amongst others.

    I also just missed by a matter of seconds getting a wings badge – I blame my wife’s middle-aged lady bladder for holding us up by 5 mins.

    I got a wee wings badge on this fundraiser though, so I’m happy.

    As far as all the bile that’s being thrown at Stu over the past few days, perhaps if folks had paid attention over the past year or so we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    It wasn’t Stu that hounded Neale Hanvey and Denice Findlay out of the SNP.

  66. Rob says:

    Trying to be reasonable may not help me, but… I can agree that a vote *at this election* is not a vote for Indy, that’ll come. The sooner the better.

    This time, maybe it’s about being the sensible adults of the Election – and, maybe, changing English sentiment to the Union? Next Holyrood election, that shouldn’t be about renewing an existing mandate, but maybe we’ll have to settle for it being the head of steam that moves that mandate forward. Indyref2, that’ll be the vote for Independence. I don’t plan missing any before then.

    If I turn my back on the SNP, that’ll be giving up on hope of independence, at which point I give up on voting and much else besides – not least the many obligatory Indy blogs that build me up, and drag me down. Perpetual rinse & repeat on that score.

  67. Brian Lucey says:

    Post independence the SNP will split into whatevers. Normal politics will resume. Voting against them, or abstaining, because of some non-indy issue will ensure the status quo remains.

  68. Ian Foulds says:

    can we just let SNP know we are giving them our vote on 12th?

    however they also need to know if the emphasis doesnot move to Independence on the 13th and thereafter, as well as sorting out their select new groups to align with the original intention, viz Independence – they are likely to be on to plums in future as we shall find alternative, non-violent methods

  69. JGedd says:

    Thank you Brian Lucey for that cogent and timely observation on where we are now.

  70. boris says:

    Difficult with such a short clip to find fault with the candidate’s statement and the Rev’s comments.

    But the candidate is correct in asserting that this election is not about independence. It is determined by him seeking election to the Westminster parliament. Nothing else!! But he might have worded his presentation better by inserting the word Just!! between “not about”

    I am also able to concur with the Rev who is right in his assertion that mixed messages will only cause confusion in the minds of the electorate. A number of the above the line promotion posters and leaflets promote stop Brexit but public Party policy is to keep pushing for independence. We should be doing both

  71. Den Cairns says:

    Ergo SNP is the best of a bad bunch. I’ll still vote for my Country.

  72. John Alexander Ferguson says:

    Lots of speculation on here, so OK here’s mine. Rev is exposing the damage the trans are doing within the Scottish Gov. and by doing so hopes the SNP sort out the infiltrators, for if this is not addressed now, the power to do so after the GE, will be lost and so might Indy2. My SNP membership is on a shoogly peg. I fail to see why a person’s private sexual preference should be a requirement for government office

  73. Surrender Joris says:

    @Terry (8:52)

    If you honestly think the SNP losing every seat in Scotland (or any seats for that matter) wouldn’t kill independence for our lifetimes, then there’s a Nigerian Prince waiting in your inbox to share his enormous fortune if you only send him all your bank details first.

    The naivety is astounding.

  74. TheBuchanLoony says:

    Richard Thomson’s video was for the voters of the Gordon constituancy which in 2017 eleven thousand Libdems ‘loaned’ their votes to the Tories to oust Alex Salmond. These Libdems are now in a dilemma as how to vote because they certainly want to stop Brexit and the only way to do that in Gordon is to vote SNP. Richard’s video is to persuade as many of them that he can to hold their noses and lend their vote to him this time.

  75. North chiel says:

    “ good luck voting SNP for independence folks” . Have been voting SNP since 1970’s for Independence and I am not going to change in 2019 for any reason whatsoever. What’s the choice?? London Britnat Labour , London Britnat Libdem or the toxic Ultra Britnat Tories ? Now let’s see what “ leader” I should vote for ?? Lifelong Britnat Corbyn ? Nuclear Armageddon Swinson?? Trump wannabee and liar Johnson ?? Or Nicola Sturgeon who has worked tirelessly throughout her life to further the cause of Independence for her country and the people of Scotland?
    Now Stu who will I vote for next Thursday ? Do tell me ?

  76. McDuff says:

    It beggers belief that people on here are having a go a Stu Campbell who has done more for independence than the SNP has done . Day after day exposing lie after lie when the SNP should be doing this when given media air time.
    After the heart breaking result in `14 he picked us up and gave us hope something the SNP should have done and didn`t.
    And he is right NS has used all her energy on Brexit instead of focusing on independence which is a hell of a lot more important than Brexit.
    But for me , when an SNP candidate states a vote for him is not a vote for independence then something is very, very wrong. So stop throwing tomatoes at SC the target lies elsewhere.

  77. Geordie says:

    Vote SNP for Independence. There is no other choice.

  78. ScotsRenewables says:

    So – everyone seems to agree that:

    a) We all need to vote SNP at this election
    b) Nothing Stu has posted this week in any way helps that
    c) A week before an election is not the time to be bringing all this SNPBaaaad shit up

    You appear to have lost the plot Stu, totally and utterly. You have lost all credibility, you are no longer in any way a force to be reckoned with in the independence movement.

    Well done, to do all that so quickly. You must feel very pleased with yourself.

    Yo do realise you are going to be out of a job soon, don’t you, as no-one is going to contribute to a fundraiser that pays for you to write this poisonous stuff.

    But I forgot – you started all this just after your last mammoth fundraiser, didn’t you? I imagine some of your bigger donors are pretty pissed off right now.

  79. Scot_Brand says:

    In Short, up here the SNP are still pushing Stronger for Scotland on thier few billboards (no sign of Stop Brexit thus far) Looks like
    Richard is pushing the message out now in this clip.

    Meanwhile Clark is manically punting no to indyref2 everywhere.(probably also using previous boards). Which is fooling no-one and just oozes desperation.

    Nicola could catch Clark on the hop and steal the initiative here if she zoops up the spanking new AWPR in her spanking new bus soon..

  80. Yasmin says:

    I’ve cancelled my membership. Ever since the attacks on Salmond and sturgeon’s lack of action re Evans and now her barmy stop brexit obsession and disregard of womens rights the snp is no longer the party it was under Salmond. It is turning into labour. Sturgeon pays too much heed to likes of blackford, m black, Freeman and blackman, basically the Zionist jews are directing her conduct

  81. Bob Mack says:

    @Scotsrenewables,

    Shut up moron. I will keep funding for one. You find another place to worship the SNP and indy.

  82. Glamaig says:

    Stu Ive thought for a while you were getting totally pissed off
    with running this website after 7 years. Who wouldnt be.

    Why not hand it over to an independence supporter you trust, step back from it, take a long break, and do something else.

    Start a new website on gender or whatever floats your boat if you like but please leave independence out of it.

    By the way never be a politician, your shit at it.

  83. Gary45% says:

    Yasmin @10.03
    Forget the hype, ignore the tripe. they are still the only party to vote for next week.
    12/12/19
    Vote SNP, send the strongest message to the yoons, then we can get this nonsense sorted once and for all.
    Once the dust has settled we can vote for the party with Scotland’s welfare at its heart, there is NO OTHER PARTY at the moment.
    Yes I have serious issues with them, but the rest are even worse.

  84. John says:

    Could I encourage all true SNP and independence wsupporters who are now leaving this site , with good reason , to now go to Talking up Scotland , there you will get proper analysis from Professor John Robertson of all the Unionist propaganda that has been circulating for weeks , and no , there is no SNP and Nicola Sturgeon bashing , we know what side we are on and it’s not the same as this one ! .

  85. Bob Mack says:

    @John,

    Thanks John. Always useful to know where to find comforting agreeable opinions. Sure you love it.

  86. John says:

    Could I encourage all true SNP and independence supporters who are now leaving this site , with good reason , to now go to Talking up Scotland , there you will get proper analysis from Professor John Robertson of all the Unionist propaganda that has been circulating for weeks , and no , there is no SNP and Nicola Sturgeon bashing , we know what side we are on and it’s not the same as this one ! .

  87. Craig MacInnes says:

    That’s all very well and good Stu, but who do you suggest we DO vote for then? Until there’s a credible alternative to the SNP they are the only game in town.

  88. Bob Mack says:

    Stu has already told you what to do.Vote SNP

  89. manandboy says:

    I don’t like my freedom shoes, so I’m going to stick with the leg-irons.

  90. ElGordo says:

    Don’t think its 7 years on the website that has done him in, think it has been his engagement with twitter, all consuming, mostly conflict and negative, no headspace, would destroy any mortal, best avoided.

  91. Joe says:

    @ Bob Mack

    Dont worry. For every hysterical infant who tantrums out because WOS stopped reading them the fairy stories they want to hear there will be a new reader with respect for honesty.

  92. manandboy says:

    Whenever I sit in the garden with my dog for a while, I know that when we come back in, he knows a lot more than I do about what’s happening upwind.

  93. Swami Backverandah says:

    Independence may well be the centre of the campaign, but that doesn’t mean that all the methods need to showcase it.

    For an election campaign is essentially a marketing campaign.

    Think of the successful ones.
    They build a brand.
    Some marketing methods more successful than others but it’s the overall market share/profit margin that counts.

    How to see off the opposition? Counter their weaknesses.

    Cummings understands that.
    There’s no doubt a back room deal stitched up between the minor parties.

    Vote for the SNP. Vote for Independence.
    Because you’re worth it.

  94. ElGordo says:

    As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.

  95. TJenny says:

    From Stu on twitter:

    ‘For the avoidance of doubt: if I lived in Scotland I’d be voting SNP next week in 56/59 constituencies (with varying degrees of reluctance). Exceptions are Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey), Glasgow South (Johann Lamont) and Stirling (wiping my arse on the ballot paper).’

    So that’s clear.

    ScotsRenewables – ‘I imagine some of your bigger donors are pretty pissed off right now.’ Well you may consider me one of his big donors if we’re judging by the amount donated perks-wise on his crowdfunders. I have donated to every one ’cause Stu speaks the truth and, as far as I can see, is the only pro indy voice standing up for my rights, the rights of women. So I will always support Stu + WOS and be there for him the way he has always been here for us. Shame on you if it’s not the truth you like.

  96. Bob Mack says:

    @Manandboy

    Yep. Your dog is smarter than you right enough.

  97. Golfnut says:

    @Mandandboy.

    Very Mark Twain’ish

  98. Brian Lucey says:

    do you want to be independent or not? Yuz can tear lumps out of one another after either way.

  99. Old Pete says:

    Vote SNP for Scottish Independence, there is no other choice.

  100. manandboy says:

    Meanwhile, on a slightly bigger stage, the internal dynamics of the SNP almost pale into insignificance.

    http://archive.ph/Yt9jT

    (www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/05/brexit-one-of-most-spectacular-mistakes-in-eu-history-donald-tusk)

    “Brexit is one of most spectacular mistakes in EU history, says Tusk
    Exclusive: Donald Tusk says it would still be better for both sides if UK stayed in EU)”

    Donald Tusk has this to say:

    “He said the biggest threat to the EU came from governments, such as Poland and Hungary, that “don’t want to treat our values seriously” while getting all the benefits of the EU. But he does not think Brussels should have more powers to tackle this problem: “Without goodwill we have no chance to survive,” he said. “But this is also the beauty of the EU.”

    He stressed the threat to liberal democracy was a bigger problem.

    Citing the 2016 US presidential race and the Brexit campaign, he said a new element in politics was “the unprecedented readiness to lie on almost everything … to treat a lie as a justifiable tool to win”. He said this “shameless” behaviour would have disqualified politicians only 10 years ago.

    Asked by the Guardian to specify who he had in mind, Tusk replied: “I don’t want to be too spectacular in my first interview … I have enough problems in my own country with professional and pathological liars.”

  101. Bob Mack says:

    On a brighter note Blackford hitting out on Question Time.
    Scotland defecit created by UK not Scotland.

  102. potter says:

    Wow, this site now wants you to vote for one of the leaders of Better Together.

  103. Swami Backverandah says:

    (1) Lock Boris Johnson out
    (2) Stop Brexit
    (3) I’m sure there’s meant to be another one, anybody remember?

    Out-woke the LibDems.

    It’s a route to:

    Possible Labour Gov.
    Possible Section 30.
    Possible Independence.

  104. James Barr Gardner says:

    This is easy folks

    Do you want to be in the EU as Citizens in a United Europe ?

    Do you want Scotland having a real say in it’s own affairs ?

    Do you want Scots at the behest of paedo royals ?

    Do you want Scotland’s wealth to be used for foreign wars where civilians are the target ?

    Do you want Scotland involved in WMD where children would be incinerated ?

    Do you want Scotland to let it’s homeless to die on the streets ?

    Voting SNP is a real start to start solving problems that the London based so called ruling elite will have you as a slave and rob your children and their children of any real meaningful futures.

    Vote SNP for Scotland, Vote SNP for your Children, Vote SNP for Your Grandchildren !

  105. Defo says:

    This Trans carry on is acting out right across the first World, financed & promoted by a scary bunch of immensely powerful and rich psychopaths.
    They fear a united pitchfork wielding public, and a divisive ideology fits their bill nicely.
    Best of all, they’re getting the left to do the donkey work for them, a bit like 2014 really.
    Scotland is an easy target, it won’t get much traction in the Eastern European countries.

  106. Col says:

    Right, so the snp ain’t for independence that’s maybe getting clearer. But let’s keep the ball
    Rolling for now, then in 2021 we get snp constituency and wings regional. But if we drop the ball now there’s no picking up for a generation, and I ain’t that young, So after 12/12 let’s discuss.

  107. Stu when I first visited your wed site many moons ago it was an epiphany to find yourself being so analytical in your scourging of the MSM,the establishment and all the Brit Nat political parties. I have used your wee blue book, your brilliant stats etc many times to bring punters over to the good side.Also as a present fully paid up member of the SNP for so many years I’ve forgotten , there is and has been in the past many propositions at our AGM I have voted for and against and that is democracy within a party.Can I please dig deep into your soul and ask you one question why are you bringing these and I agree ,very relevant, but negative issues up atm a week before one of the most important GE in the last 40 odd years. THIS IS NOT A VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE but it is at the end of the day a chance to give the establishment a bloody nose and hopefully the beginning of a long road for me to the goal of independence.One of the most respected leaders of the western world our very own Nicola has already stated that she will ask before the end of the year for a sec 30 so could you please please please give yourself a cold reset and get back to your brilliant analytical self for the final countdown when the whole of the MSM and their dug will be up against us and we don’t need any sidetracking that can and will be dealt with when we truly have an Independent government in our great capital of Scotland which will most probably be nothing near like a one size fits all that we have at the moment. Just saying like….

  108. Sarah says:

    @ Rev: Ian Blackford on radio tonight said independence is the answer. He has said that throughout this campaign.

  109. mike cassidy says:

    We all know we’ll need to vote SNP one more time with many a nose being covered.

    But I’m still not getting an answer from those who both stress the need to vote SNP

    And criticise Stu for raising questions at this time that might deflect people from doing that.

    What the feck do you think the effect of Nicola Sturgeon publicly abandoning the constituency of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath so close to election day might have on voters?

    Nicola Sturgeon did her thing in the full glare of MSM publicity.

    Our candidate is out.

    You people who vote here – tough on you.

    Oh and could the activists get the feck out of the constituency and campaign elsewhere

    Whereas Stu did his thing via a website that operates within a bubble of which we are all aware.

    It doesn’t need a surfeit of brain cells to see which one is going to cause the biggest ripples.

  110. manandboy says:

    Bob Mack says “Yep. Your dog is smarter than you right enough.”

    If Nicola stepped outside Holyrood in an east wind, my dog would know within a short time, what make of perfume she was wearing.

    However, impressive as this is, he would not be able to tell me the brand name of said perfume.

    He is a very smart dog, but the Rev is smarter. Myself, less so, I suspect.

  111. Swami Backverandah says:

    ScotsRenewables says:
    5 December, 2019 at 9:57 pm

    “So – everyone seems to agree that:”

    Could you please publish the survey data.
    Thanks.

  112. Col says:

    I suppose the snp know that anyone who values independence will vote for them so why promote it, better to promote other policies to get those voters Hooke das well and then they might get the real goal, Indy I suppose.

  113. Footsoldier says:

    Goodbye!

  114. manandboy says:

    The Theatre for the Brexit show is England, radiating from Westminster, seat of the Establishment.
    Wales, Scotland and NI, have not been booked as venues. Know your place, Scotland. Please do not get your underwear in a twist over this GE19.

  115. Tackety Beets says:

    I would be a long timer here but for several reasons I have jook’d awa fileys.

    Catching up tonight I will post something “Breeks-esque”

    SNP message should be a clear “For or against IndyRef2 ? Hate SNP? Want rid of SNP ? You need to VOTE SNP, lend them your vote this one time only”
    “A strong vote for SNP means a quick IndyRef2 in 2020, if you still believe in Tory UK you can VOTE NO & a No vote will signal the end of SNP”

    They could add & a YES vote for iScotland will mean a revolution in new political Scottish Parties and the decent of SNP !

    Just saying ……..smiley

  116. manandboy says:


    user5080139

    A film by John Pilger on the NHS.

    You might just want to watch this.

    Like you might just want to watch on film the trial of the burglar who is about to strip your home sometime soon while you are asleep.

  117. Tackety Beets says:

    BTW, it will ALWAYS be SNP & Yes from me.

    An SNP Scot Gvt is by a million times better than anything we or any others in UK have ever experienced.
    I admit that despite my immediate family, next generation of mixed race & mixed gender or whatever the fe#k is the correct fe#king language, I have not engaged with all this gender & religious shit storm.
    I’m perhaps too old, however I feel very sorry for the good people who have been swiped recently.

  118. dadsarmy says:

    Johann Lamont! THAT is so so so funny 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Never knew the Rev had a sense of humour.

  119. Tackety Beets says:

    “Descent of the SNP”. Doh!

  120. Breastplate says:

    I have criticised the SNP on occasion, usually about their strategy and who decides it.
    It is my opinion that they have needed a hefty boot up the arse more than a few times..

    It is also my opinion that the SNP under the stewardship of Alex Salmond was much more combative and honest about the direction of travel for the party.
    directly after the Indyref, the party could boast about a massive influx of members (not because of Alex’s resignation but in solidarity with him and the SNP), shortly after, we had a record number of MPs at Westminster, we were and are a much more powerful SNP today.
    Yet we seem to be more anemic, less combative, more meandering and less assured of our goal for Scotland’s independence.
    It seems to me that the SNP, having become much more powerful (and unfamiliar with it) as a party have no real idea how to wield that power.

    I believe what Stu is trying to tell us is; the meek shall inherit fuck all.

    I think Stu is disheartened not only by SNP strategy but also by the people who attack him without so much as a second to consider his points, I know I am.

    Nevertheless, we must all vote SNP at this election no matter our differing opinions about the party’s policies or strategy.

    Stu, I believe we should try to optimise the SNP vote now and park any criticism of the party until after the election.

  121. Al-Stuart says:

    .
    In this dystopian week where my favourite Wings site is in turmoil BTL., the Kafkaesque world is now complete.

    I support Stuart Campbell.

    I will be voting SNP.

    But how the fcuk have I managed to find solace in Brillo Heid ANDREW NEIL giving what some might consider a PRO-SNP monologue sans Boris Johnson…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50679252

    My thesis about Andrew Neil giving a pro-SNP speech posited upon that hoary chestnut: “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Simply put when the BBC feature their arch political crapster getting stuck into the Tories, that may well garner a few Tory Votes in every seat in Scotland.

    One can but hope.

    Hope over fear is much needed now.

    ——————————

    P.S. Stuart MacKay, I nominate you for the prize in posting best BTL comment of this thread…

    Stuart MacKay says:

    Clearly the Rev. wants to keep the pot as close to boiling over as possible. So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to get out there and take the future you want or run back to your mammies?

    Get off your arse and vote. Don’t like the trannies blocking the main road to independence. Fucking quit yer whining and do something about it.

  122. James Barr Gardner says:

    Rev Stu in regard to

    Mike Robertson says:
    5 December, 2019 at 11:42 pm

    Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

  123. manandboy says:

    So near, yet so far.

    Is Scotland destined to be the last English Colony. Is Scotland about to be written into History as a permanent Wimp Nation?

    Is Independence not a dream at all, but merely a fully conscious delusion. A nation draped in the flag of self-deception. Kidding ourselves on that we are a real country, when in fact, we went into Liquidation in 1707, before ceasing to exist as Scotland, becoming instead a region of the country of the United Kingdom.

    At times it does seem that way.

    Vote SNP, vote for Independence, the path to restoring our self-respect.

  124. Al-Stuart says:

    .
    When I just wrote: : “garner a few Tory votes”, what I meant was: “garner a few votes FROM Tories TO the SNP.”

    It is late. I just had a long shift. Reading the entire BTL of the last three articles from Stu., was hard going and my brains have melted. That is my excuse 🙂

  125. The Man in the Jar says:

    Ian Hamilton at 9:05 pm

    I remember it well. I missed out on my badge because I was waiting at the (cough) Chris Hoy golden postbox. It was the first time that I used my brand new smartphone to resolve a problem “on the hoof”. It was a great day made all the better by meeting so many fellow wings readers.

    On topic. I am disturbed by the number of people who are blaming Stu for this. I say this with a heavy heart but The SNP have brought this upon themselves. In their rush to be all things to all men, they have taken their eyes off the ball. Also, they pretty much paid scant regard to the Yes movement outside of the party. Where were they at the AUOB demos? I didn’t attend them all but Keith Brown was the only one that I saw at more than one event and he was a spectator rather than a participant. You can’t just “park” a million people and expect them to be as you left them years on. I have said it before on here “The devil makes work for idle hands” That’s what the establishment is relying on. They will be banking on stalling indiref2 as long as possible in the knowledge that the longer it takes then cracks will inevitably appear in the support for independence. Cracks that they will drive a wedge into. It’s not rocket surgery.

    I’m sure that Stu didn’t enjoy writing these articles I certainly didn’t enjoy reading them but it had to be said, someone had to say it. We can hope that it is a wake-up call to the leadership of the SNP and this gets sorted out asap. I for one won’t be holding my breath.

    I have been an enthusiastic SNP voter all my life (66yo) The first political event that I remember although too young to vote at the time was Winnie Ewing winning the nearby Hamilton By-election. On top of that, my Dad was a constituent of James Maxton back in the 1930s Its inconceivable that I would not vote for the SNP I will just do it with a lot less optimism that is until they sort themselves out. If they don’t I fear that independence is still a long way away.

  126. TJenny says:

    The Man in the Jar – I remember walking up the entrance to Calton Hill with you in 2013. Nice to hear from you again and I echo your sentiment.

  127. The Man in the Jar says:

    @ TJenny

    Thanks. Nice of you to say so. Shout out to all the “old school” Wingers. Stay safe, stay alert. Peace.

  128. Liz g says:

    Man in the Jar @ 2.45am
    A thoughtful and heartfelt post 🙂
    It pretty much sums up how,I think,most of us are feeling.
    After the shock value of these post’ s,I hope that most are reconsidering their initial reaction!!!
    Because you are right… Stu didn’t do anything to the SNP,they got here all by themselves.

    There’s not one word of a lie in anything that he has said, and,HE, didn’t choose to create a stir the week before an election.
    He chose to report on what the SNP were doing at this point in time.
    The SNP’s activities surely… Should be able to be reported on .. AT .. any point in time???
    And once again, unlike the MSM, he didn’t make anything up.

    It’s no his responsibility to ensure the SNP don’t mess up!
    If they don’t want articles like these last few… Then don’t create the story.
    Or do they think us fools? Who will stand for employing a man to tell it like it is across the political spectrum, except, for them?
    Our contract with Wings is only that he has no overseer.
    We enjoy the fact that he need not write to order!
    That, ( sorry Rev I don’t mean to dehumanize ye ) is a,” resource ” we will be unlikely to find again anytime soon.
    And, if, the SNP didn’t mess up a week before the election,then, he’d have had not a thing to say about them in this way…
    Why can’t people see that???

    Anyhoo….. Now I have to disagree with ye,Man,and the Rev too.
    I can’t see Indy being stopped now… Too many people have disengaged from the Union and will most likely take the movement forward with, or despite, the current Politicians!
    And somehow I can’t see those politicians wanting to miss that particular date with destiny…. We’ll see 🙂

  129. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @TJenny, TMITJ and Liz g –

    Blimey!

    You wait for an auld face to appear, and then…

    🙂

    I missed out on a Wings badge that day because I was in the SSP and helping keep a big banner upright. Wondering now if I should’ve joined the scrum to get a badge but hey-ho, so it goes.

    Another day beckons and we’re all still here. Remarkable, given that yesterday seemed, for some, to signal an apocalypse. I suppose there will more wailing and gnashing of teeth as the day wears on, then it’ll go quiet, everyone will get a kip, then it’ll start all over again.

    FWIW, I’m another of the ‘cultists’ who isn’t going anywhere.

    Have a braw day everyone.

    😉

  130. TJenny says:

    Ian Brotherhood – ‘auld face’, how very dare you. 😉

  131. Liz g says:

    TJenny @ 4.46
    That’s exactly what I was thinking 🙂
    And the day after ma Birthday too….
    That man owes me a drink… LOL….

  132. TJenny says:

    Liz g – wonder if oor Ian’s ears are burning? 😉

  133. TJenny says:

    Liz g – belated Happy Birthday, Liz.

    And here’s a thing, everyone of the woko haram all came from women, we gave birth to them, ’cause we’re women, with a womb. They’re so ungrateful.

  134. Ian Brotherhood says:

    🙂

    Just trying to get abody fired-up for what promises to be another loooong day.

    On the basis that ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ we should take heart – the Wings haters (i.e. the usual ‘old’ ones!) feel that Christmas has arrived early. They’re all excited, bless…

    This site has faced existential crises before. But it’s still here. So it’s mibbe not Nostradamus material to predict that it will still be here next week as the WM results are being confirmed, and whether SNP emerges with 56 seats or none, the upshot will be exactly the same i.e. we’re still not independent and still have no idea when indy2 is going to happen.

    What will have changed is that a great deal many more indy supporters and SNP members will have been made aware of TRA entryism – getting angry about it right now is one thing, but dealing with it rationally is another. Perhaps those shouting the loudest at this place right now might devote some of their energy to working out how best that can be done without wrecking the entire Yes movement in the process.

  135. Liz g says:

    Tjenny @ 4.59
    I’m totally guilt tripping him, and unlikely to let him forget he called ma face auld on ma Birthday….
    …. LOL….
    @ 5.04
    Thank you, my friend….
    And exactly.. Every last one of them and us has to have a Mother….. Self identify into that and I’ll be impressed 🙂

  136. TJenny says:

    Liz g – aye, and when they self id themselves into a smear test with an open speculum up their willie, I might just be impressed – though allegedly, JY has already tried to book a smear test and been knocked back.

  137. Liz g says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 5.12
    We’ve been in don’t rock the boat mode for far too long anyway Ian.
    It was probably the right thing to do a wee while back.
    Not now…. I’m all for creating 7 shades of shit to get out of the Union.
    We normalised it.
    We explained it.
    We grew the support.
    Now we need to go for it!!
    This site will be there, and, play a part,there’s no one who, made a friend,admired it’s edge,found information or even flounced that isn’t reading it….no matter what they say!!
    It will be fine…of that have nae doubt 🙂
    My only doubt… Is that drink 🙂

  138. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Liz g –

    Name yer poison!

  139. Liz g says:

    Tjenny @ 5.28
    JY can have a smear test at ma hoose any day of the week and twice oan a Sunday…. I’d see tae that PERSONALLY :-)..
    That man is a narcissistic predator of the worst kind.

    I seriously feel so bad for the Trans Community,they are being used and used badly by these idiots!!
    The saddest thing is that Women are more likely to help them to be who they want to be…. they didn’t even need to ask!
    They only needed to show they needed somehow…
    Now we’ve got those narcissistic bastards creating an unnecessary division ….

  140. Liz g says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 5.48
    A Dram… Of course 🙂

  141. Willie says:

    Not the time to be throwing the toys out the pram Rev.

    Our candidate in Salmond’s old seat was I suspect trying to not scare the horses.

    Of course there are differences on how we approach gaining independence and you have made huge contributions to that debate.

    The biggest show in town just now is to get the biggest SNP vote possible with the maximum number of seats.

    Do that and we move forward. Every SNP vote counts and that should be all our objectives.

  142. TJenny says:

    Liz g – I agree, they are the trans community’s worst enemies.

    On that note, I’ll say, night, night.

  143. Liz g says:

    Willie @ 6.13
    All very fine Willie,but…. And it’s a big but…
    Don’t Ye remember the mantra that ” my remain vote was not a vote for Independence ”
    That’s what will happen if the Candidate actually says a vote for me is not a vote for Independence.
    No,No,No,….. It’s stupid,stupid,stupid and a LIE no matter what.
    This is an SNP candidate.. Independence should be beyond dispute….

  144. Liz g says:

    T Jenny @ 6.32
    Night,Night, my friend,sleep well xxx

  145. Robert Louis says:

    So, anyway, this election thingy… in case anybody has forgotten, with all the navel gazing going on..

    In all of this, just remember, unionists will always be trying to find a way to destroy our pro indy unity. Every which way, they will try. Do not fall into their traps. The gender sh*te is out in the open now, and the SNP leadership should be in NO DOUBT as to what folk (including a helluva lot of gay folk, like myself) think.

    I do not doubt the leadership will act, against the wee infiltrating sh*tes, who are actively shouting about damage they are trying to do to some of the very best SNP MP’s, like Joanna Cherry (a tireless and adept champion of independence). This cannot go on, as it is, and NS needs to get a proverbial f***ing grip on it.

    That said, I will happily vote SNP next week, and encourage others to do so. In the overall scheme of the quest for independence, these kinds of things are bound to come up, now and again. BUT, I repeat what I have said previously, I do genuinely believe, some folk who have great influence are getting very well played by our opponents on this subject. Very well played indeed. They will be high – fiving, over in the 77th brigade HQ.

    Don’t let the unionist infiltrators win. Don’t get played. They want your knee-jerk ‘I’m not voting SNP’ response. Vote SNP, and do not let these lying bar stewards twist your thoughts. The gender nonsense will be sorted, but in the meantime, their is an election to win. And this time, it really, really, really, really matters

  146. Willie says:

    Liz g @6.38

    Instead of bickering amongst ourselves and one comment by one candidate in a currently held Tory seat, do you not agree that we should all be focussing on getting the biggest SNP vote possible with the maximum number of seats possible.

    Campaigning against the SNP as the Rev has done here is not helpful.

    Saying that I share many of his concerns about strategy. None of us have a monopoly on that, voters are fickle, and circumstances change.

    We owe Rev Stu a debt of gratitude for all he has done and he had more to do.

    In the meantime next week let’s all vote SNP.

  147. Dorothy Devine says:

    I missed out on a Wings badge that day too as I was far too late in getting through to Edinburgh but I did meet Stu , T.Jenny , Bugger and Conan that day.

    helped a struggling soul up the hill too and had rare blethers all round!

  148. Willie says:

    Just read a piece on the BBC lamenting how the SNP in this election period keep going on about independence and stopping Brexit.

    Quite amazing really that the BBC have noticed this and are saying so.

    And on another web page the very same BBC on a Farage fact check record the the EEA say that 28.4% of doctors and 13.3% of NHS staff overall are from outside the UK.

    With Farage and Johnson seeing these foreigners as burdening our services I look forward to a cull of over one in four of our doctors.

    Like Turkeys voting for an early Christmas I’d deny all the Conservative voters treatment first.

    No cancer treatment, no cardiac treatment, months and months waiting to see a GP – I just dare our Dummies to vote Tory ……so that Boris, Rees Mogg et al can look after you.

    Enjoy !!

  149. Maolbeatha says:

    Stu,

    What is the point of posts like this?

    The SNP is not moving fast enough towards the end goal for you? So you conclude they have abandoned the idea?
    So you post to influence your readers to do what? Pressure the SNP to change course? Change leader?

    If not the SNP then who?

    There is no other option towards Independence other than the SNP.
    Hopefully they win on the 12th and win well.

    I know you have said that if in Scotland you would vote SNP also but to read posts likes this creates doubt.

    I know that all must be subjected to the same level of scrutiny to ensure integrity, but now?

    I recommend this site to people unsure on the idea of Independence as a source of fact based articles.

    There is no one better at that, on this subject.

    These last few articles do not encourage a possible indy voter, they may even dissuade them.

    This is your site I know, you are better at this than me I know, you can tell me to F@@K off, but will you consider focusing your attention back where it did most to expose the opponents of Independence and where it was seen to be doing so?

    Rennie, Carlaw, Leonard, Johnson I mean they must be the biggest set of open goals in history, ripe for shredding?
    Is that it? It would be too easy?

    The economics of Indy? As they stand now with Brexit?
    The Barnet formulas myth update?
    Johnsons claims about the sale of the NHS?
    Scottish education and healthcare vs south of the border?

    Anything but this?

    Please.

  150. Ruglonian says:

    Just caught up with the last few posts (and all the btls – jeez!)

    LizG @4.20 nailed exactly what I wanted to say, but having seen so many ‘old faces’ kicking about, and so much common sense prevailing amongst the short-sighted flounces, I decided to post anyway in solidarity with Stu and my pals!

    Seems like this is the perfect time for me to have more chat here and less on that mentally draining, GE obsessed, crazy place that is twitter – so wakey wakey Liz 😀

  151. Joe says:

    The SNP. Not quite offering independence. But look on the bright side, at least ill be able to have a female penis and a man period at will. That will sort those arrogant vagina owners out big time.

    The SNP: turning ‘soft no’ to ‘fuck that’ since 2017.

  152. Joe says:

    The SNP. Gearing up to stop the result of a referendum and save the dumb plebs from themselves. No wonder they are finding ‘Independence for Scotland’ to be a touch too cheeky this time around

  153. cyril mitchell says:

    Perhaps it is all strategy this SNP candidate kidding on he is not pro indy in order to get votes, in same way Davidson last time sent out leaflets not mentioning she was a conservative

  154. mike cassidy says:

    Somebody in that there London has been reading WOS

    SNP members victims of LGBT campaign

    http://archive.is/NU489

  155. Joe says:

    The SNP. They have a magic trick that allows Scotland to be independent while handing over monetary control to an unelected central bank, with immigration and trade policy controlled by Brussels. Not to mention a raft of workplace and other legislation. It is a nifty trick right enough.

  156. Abulhaq says:

    There is an English expression ‘damp squib’. The feeling that the SNP leadership is the reason for the dampness can no longer be ruled out.
    This squandered golden Brexit opportunity to forcefully push the case for independence is revelatory of the rather second rate ‘types’ that have come to voice the national movement.
    The SNP needs to smarten up or independence will simply fizzle out.
    Perhaps we do require a dynamic alternative for Scotland.

  157. katherine hamilton says:

    Morning.
    I hope this tirade against WoS has run out of puff and we can get back to business. One week to go.

    The Rev didn’t bump any SNP candidate or office bearer. SNP did. As he does, he wrote about it, highlighting the forces behind it.
    Those of you attacking his defence of women’s rights. Have you read on his Twitter feed the antics of a certain “Leeze” person?
    Check it out.

    Apparently this person is weel connected in the upper eschelons of the SNP. Well, not my SNP, thanks. There appears to be a cabal in there with as yet entirely unclear motives, but maybe the best evidence is they are trying to unseat Joanna Cherry. Joanna Cherry!

    Those who have flounced off in the Huff. Please re-think.I know you all know this is bigger than any one of us. This is about our country and our children. It’s about who we are. Rise above it.

    The very idea that Stuart Campbell is an MI5 plant, a homophobe, a late convert to the Union, a fraud taking money under false pretences, working now to undermine the Independence movement is
    risible and beneath contempt.

    Get a f*****g grip.

    Stu, I’ve followed this episode with great interest. Noticed a lot of posters names I’ve not seen before or certainly can’t easily recollect. Ignore them.

    You remain, in your belligerent, fighting mode, well, the best we’ve got. In the next week go for the jugular big time on these rapacious, deceitful and dangerous reps of all the Unionist parties. They would destroy our country.

    You have my continued support, for what it’s worth.

  158. Richardinho says:

    The people I feel sorry for are those who voted for Brexit with the crafty plan of it providing the SNP with an excuse for pushing for another referendum.
    As one who certainly considered this option, all I can say is , “b*****ks!”

  159. mike cassidy says:

    I’m going to need some pervitin to get through to election day.

    And I’ve a horrible feeling I’ll need more from that day on.

    https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/1202709232509952001

  160. Famous15 says:

    The Times would show good journalism by describing how EVERY political party on earth is being “infiltrated” by self ID fanatics,

    Just as we are beginning to realise that anti semitism is not the true target I am beginning to wonder if even self ID is the true faith.

    I had a friend at Uni who was something of an anarchist who would take grear pains to explain that the Red Brigade ,Bader and other terror groups had as their object the opposite of their declared goal.

    Just sayin.

  161. Onwards says:

    He’s targeting no voters in a 2 horse unionist heavy seat. Trying to be too clever because stuff like that could backfire.
    The pro-indyref2 message actually seems very clear in general this campaign.

  162. Bob Mack says:

    Politicians are politicians the world over.Moreover, every party has its extremists and racicals who want more and more
    control over party direction.

    Normal!y they are kept in check, but what we see now is that they have free rein to create havoc . That is the issue here.

    It is an important topic because although there is apparently going to be a consultation of some kind, these troublemakers also control aspects of who will be al!owed to participate in that consultation.

    Stu is merely pointing this out. We do not need this nonsense.It is a distraction caused by the party themselves.

    In trying to be all inclusive they have let wo!ves into the fold who have no interests in indy other than its publicity value in helping them create the reality of their own agenda.

    They have entangled many SNP members and policicians in their web shich they are using to maximum effect.They would be seen as anti freedom should they now withdraw their backing.

    We deal with them after this election.Vote SNP.

  163. Alibi says:

    When I saw that bus, my reaction was “WTF!”. I didn’t vote SNP for them to stop Brexit, because it’s not our place to stop England having what it wants; our job is (or should be) to end the situation where England drags us out the EU against our will and we have no alternative. Let them have their Brexit FFS! Just make it clear that we are not intending to do what they tell us any more. I disagree fundamentally with the FM. She is a good FM and popular with the general public, but she is either misguided or she has some sort of hidden agenda. She would do well to stop this trans nonsense too – probably about 99% of SNP members are opposed to that nonsense.

  164. Capella says:

    I have no issue with the SNP strategy on BREXIT. It’s the democratic wish of the majority of Scottish voters to REMAIN. Independence in Europe has been the SNP mantra for decades. It points to the vast gulf in political outlook between Scotland and Westminster.

    Also, the SNP candidate in Gordon is quite correct to say that a vote for the SNP in the GE is not a vote for independence. We will need a second referendum next year to vote for Independence. I suspect that many of his constituents have voiced concern about this.

    Previously, before Alex Salmond, Gordon was a Liberal Democrat seat held by an arch Unionist, Malcolm Bruce, from 1983 to 2015.
    It went Tory in 2017 because of tactical voting. People in Gordon were phoned up and advised how to vote to get Alex Salmond out. The Liberals forfeited their chance in order o get a Tory in for the glorious Tory victory.

    So I don’t believe this builds a case that the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon nor Ian Blackford are not interested in independence. They talk about little else these days. For once, the Tory moan is correct. That’s a reason to be cheerful.

    So I don’t agree with Stu on this one.

  165. @hackalumpoff,

    jeezo that`s a fair few links,well done,

    thank you,and,

    keep up the good work.

  166. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    FibDem candidate in Gordon in this GE is the nephew of Malcolm Bruce! @ Capella says at 9:38 am

  167. Paul says:

    Sold your soul for Westminster Gold now Stuart You have just killed your Blog with all this anti SNP crap. Good riddance Traitor!

  168. Conan the Librarian says:

    I must admit to being pretty depressed yesterday (Family funeral today), but onwards and upwards. The optimism of that day six (six!) years ago is back! The SNP are going to win this election in Scotland despite this (very convenient for the UK…hmm)brouhaha.
    L’Shana Haba’ah B’Yerushalayim

  169. hackalumpoff says:

    @Scot Finlayson 6 December, 2019 at 9:52 am

    Thanks for that, I’ll pass it on to the “Team” AKA QOL or SWMBO.

  170. Albaman says:

    Stew,
    You haven’t been to bed with Pamela Nash have you ?,
    Just asking like.

  171. Baldeagle58 says:

    O/T

    I caught the end of Andrew Neil’s interview with Farage, where he looked straight at the camera and savaged Johnson for not appearing to be interviewed by him, along with a list of the questions he’s ask him.

    Don’t usually have time for AN, but well done in this case!

  172. rod mackenzie says:

    I have been a subscriber to Wings for years and have admired your work greatly – but you have totally lost it here!

    I cannot believe that you have been conned by this video – when has a british election been won by telling the truth! FFS get a grip. You have been saying that the SNP should fight dirtier in the past – now they are doing it and you miss the whole point. If he takes this seat and others from the tories it will sent a message to the next british government that Independence is still high on the agenda.

    VOTE SNP whether you like them or not at this election or Independence could be put back for years.

  173. Doug says:

    A vote for the SNP isn’t automatically a vote for Independence. It is however a vote to Choose the future of Scotland.

    I have family who would vote for the SNP if it stops the Tories getting into power – But are worried that means Independence. I’ve spent many hours explaining that while the SNP wants independence it isn’t going to force it – you get a second Indy Ref and can vote for the union if you want.

    I also have family who won’t vote for the SNP because the SNP have said they would support/prop up Corbyn and they believe Corbyn is and I quote verbatim “A Russian Mole, Islamic Terrorist Supporter and totally Anti-Semitic. I hate him more than Trump and if I had a chance I’d kick him out of the country and never let him back in”. This is someone who is likely a soft No and there for the taking to vote for Indy.

    To get to indy ref 2 – which is the ONLY route the SNP are willing to take for Independence compromises have to be made. I’m willing to take the hit over some of the extreme Self ID crowd this time round to secure a pro Indy Ref position knowing we can fight and expose them after the election and deal with it then.

    I want Independence tomorrow, I want Scotland to simply say to England – you go off to form your own country Scotland and Northern Ireland will remain “United Kingdoms” in the EU and let England be it’s own country – it’s the one way that solves the Brexit dilemma for everyone. I am happy with a UDI claim, hell I’m happy with putting up borders with England and staying in the EU and joining schengen and taking the Euro.

    But getting Independence tomorrow is not going to happen – so for next week it’s Vote SNP, try and Deny The Tories a outright Majority then take things from there.

  174. Capella says:

    @ Jockanese Wind Talker – Colin Clark will be expecting to retain this seat now that Alex Salmond is out of action. Gordon is a wealthy area mainly because of farming and related industries, mainly funded by the EU. Stopping BREXIT may well have a lot of traction in Gordon.

    But I looked at the Wikipedia page for Gordon and it’s an interesting history. Richard Thompson cut Malcolm Bruce’s majority by 4,000 votes in 2010. To get Alex Salmond out, around 13,000 LD votes transferred to the Tories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#cite_ref-22

  175. JLT says:

    Haven’t posted on here for a while but have quietly watched the various posts over the last few weeks and the arguments that have kicked off over various issues (direction of the SNP / new candidates / are we fighting for Brexit or for independence?)

    First …the hard truth …Brexit needs to happen.

    (1) Whether we like it or not, England voted for it and as much as Scotland rejected leaving the EU …it is going to happen …and it NEEDS to happen if we need to take Scotland to the next level of self-reflection. Also, we would be breaking the idea of democracy if the referendum result was ignored. Imagine if we did have a 2nd independence referendum and won only for Westminster to say ‘No’. We’ve had our fun these last 2 odd years in frustrating Westminster, but Brexit needs to happen to fulfil the idea of democratic right. It would also add gravitas to our own result should we win.

    (2) Because for all of us here on this site and throughout Scotland, we finally get to find out what the Scottish people are going to do about it when they have been humiliatingly taken out of the EU by the will of another country. This will be the real acid test. This will decide whether Scots will finally acknowledge their status and position within the Union as 2nd-class citizens that have little influence and therefore will move to the concepts of independence …or embarrassingly and disgracefully, continue to stay in the Union and pretend that we are a meaningful ‘partner’ in the Greater Britain project. This latter part could be the real hard truth and a bitter pill for all of us on here to swallow.

    (3) Once out of the EU, Boris Johnson and his party of arrogant, contemptuous, self-serving b*****ds will be allowed to shaft the British people once more and none more so than the Scots. The Scottish NHS along with the UK NHS will end up as part of the UK-US trade deal meaning that once again, the British people have allowed the Tories to lie to them for the umpteenth time and in the process, laugh openly in their face. With Boris and other world leaders having openly mocked Trump in London a couple of days ago, I would bet that Trump will make Boris suffer in the aftermath of his election victory by announcing that ‘all options are once again on the table’ in a trade-deal. With no place for Boris left to run to as alternatives for trade (because we’ll be out of the EU), he’ll cave in to Trump’s demands.

    (4) As to the SNP, well within the first few months of a new Boris government, they will also be facing their own acid test – it’s do or die time. The idea of continually kicking the can down the road won’t be an option any longer. Brexit is done. Sturgeon can’t use ‘Stop Brexit’ as her main policy anymore. The SNP in mid-2020 would be facing a hard reality – either fight for the right to hold a referendum through our courts or watch support diminish from a party that at one time, had been given the golden gift of presenting independence as an alternative to Brexit but instead, sat quietly on their hands rather than preferring to rally their support with organised events as well as a detailed plan for the economy, currency and what would happen by aiming for EFTA representation rather than fighting to get back into the EU which only hardened the one-third opposed to the EU. Allowing the media and the Unionist parties to continually say that the SNP need a majority to hold a referendum was nonsense when the independence parties already have a majority. Moves should have taken place in threatening to take the matter of holding a 2nd Independence Referendum to the Scottish Courts which would have muddied the waters even further within the British State as Brexit and a GE are fought over rather than raising tensions throughout the UK. England has made its position clear – it wants out of the EU and doesn’t give a fig for what the Scots think …so why was Holyrood worried about upsetting Westminster when it came to asking for the right to holding a referendum? I believe mistakes – BIG mistakes – have been made by the independence parties of Scotland by being too quiet with little action from either of them over the last 3 years.

    So for me overall …(1) Brexit needs to happen so Scots see the real reality of the Union and how they are mockingly irrelevant in influencing Britain (2) The SNP need to get their house sorted out over policy and candidates as well as becoming more involved and galvanising its support before they really do lose them through apathy (3) and finally next week, you vote SNP despite their mistakes since they are still the only show in town – that should have been obvious to everyone.

  176. Bob Mack says:

    @Rod Mackenzie,

    Wee Ginger Dug insists that Nicola and the SNP members unlike everh other party tel! nothing but the truth. By imp!ication of that, isnt this video therefore true ?

  177. desimond says:

    We have entered the Emperors New Clothes territory and Stu is the wee boy who is gonna get a kicking for highlight the nakedness of the SNP campaign.

    Its the modern way..don’t like the message, kill the messenger. Its self protection wrapped in denial.

    Im a member and watched us rise and now we have plateaued.
    Much like Wings it not seems.

    SNP folk are so happy to smile everytime Nicola is praised as the best on the UK debates, without admitting that’s just confirming how far we have slid into being part of the UK Establishment.

    Remember when Alex Salmond used to attack folks arguments? Seems such a long time ago.

    We got soft, we got comfortable and we forgot the main principle. Don’t shoot Stu for highlighting something you all know deep down to be true.

  178. grafter says:

    Section 30 order ? You must be joking. Make sure you order a yellow vest from Santa this Xmas.

  179. Defo says:

    So many new people posting!
    Where have you been all these years?
    Not shyness, judging by the tone of many.
    Y’all come back now, don’t be a stranger ?

  180. R Ross says:

    Hello Rev, judging by some of the replies here, the sentiment behind your current pinned tweet on Twitter wouldn’t appear to be having much of an effect on the ‘party faithful’.

    When the result of the Brexit Referendum became known, I’m sure that I wasn’t alone in thinking, “Grand!”. It seemed to me that all the SNP had to do was sit back, go through the motions of protest and let it happen. If the resulting chaos and destitution in Scotland couldn’t persuade Scottish unionist voters to see the light and demand independence, then nothing ever would and those desiring independence would be as well taking to the drink.

    Instead the SNP made Brexit their number one priority. Scottish Independence wasn’t so much put on a back burner as taken off the cooker all together. They seem to have conveniently forgotten the raison d’être of the their party.

    It seems to me that the SNP are trying to run two horses here. They want to appeal to those unionist Scots who voted ‘No’ to Brexit whilst taking the continuing support of their members and their existing SNP voters for granted. I can see the point of this, although to be honest, even if the SNP won every Scottish seat in Westminster it wouldn’t advance the cause of independence one iota when you have SNP candidates who won’t even have the word “independence” printed on their campaign literature, never mind the likes of Richard Thompson informing voters that a vote for him is a vote against Johnson and Brexit and, “…what it absolutely is not is a vote for Scottish Independence”. Jeezo – talk about giving ammunition to your enemy!

    Now combine this Brexit policy with all these transexual activists with all their weird and wonderful policies, who have the ear of Nicola Sturgeon. The SNP are having their very own ‘Militant Tendency’ moment aren’t they? Albeit the entryist enemy within aren’t a bunch of Trots. Rather they are the afore mentioned trans activists along with their support act of ‘woke bros’. Why would any woman (the old-fashioned sort who were born without male genitalia) want to vote for the SNP? If it comes to that, the way things are going, why would any straight man want to vote for them? What kind of a country would a ‘progressive’ independent Scotland be? Lesbians are already castigated and threatened for refusing to sleep with men who have a penchant for dressing and living (when it suits them) as women. How long will it be before straight men suffer similarly or worse for refusing to indulge a transexual?

    Wings saw the writing on the wall long ago and now he is being vilified for taking the trouble to inform his readers and followers of the course that the SNP has set itself upon. Most people do not read Wings over Scotland or any other political bog for that matter. They still rely on the MSM for their news and for them apathy rules where politics are concerned. Compare and contrast a public, political demonstration in Scotland with it’s counterpart in Catalunya or even France. Mind you, the day cannot be far off when the general public finally wake up to what is going on and rightly, crucify the SNP, Greens et cetera at the ballot-box for pandering to a tiny but very vocal minority.

    It is to hoped that by then Wings will indeed have formed a new party as it is sorely needed. They will get my vote. Even better would be Alex Salmond getting the verdict(s) he is hoping for, returning to the SNP and starting from the top – mucking out the SNP stable as it would appear to be knee-deep in shite.

    P.S. Dan’s post at 7:52pm rather nicely sums up Nicola Sturgeon for me.
    P.P.S. I have already voted by post. For Ronnie Cowan.

  181. desimond says:

    All those folk moaning about how this is damamaging to SNP

    Has anyone felt energised and pumped by this SNP Campaign?

    We are told this is the biggest Election in God knows when..yet all I see are shrugs, furrowed brows and sighs.

    Is anyone clear on :

    What are the key goals? Specific ones, not wooly Xmas wishes ones.

    Is it more MPs at Westminster getting abuse when we already proved that it makes no difference how many we have down there playing roles in their pantomine?

    Is the end goal of this a Section 30 that we already agreed to go for at the last Election but havent?

    What are the attack points bar “Boris is a dick!”

    I fear we have turned into Mr Mackey, the elementary school’s counsellor at South Park Elementary, walking about saying “That’s baaaad, mkayyyy” everytime someone dares do anything that could possibly upset another.

  182. Bob Mack says:

    @Defo,

    The newer posters are refreshing. The former pests have gone over go Wee Ginger Dugi.e.Cubby,Petra etc. They have their own clique where you can have “comfortable” truths daily.

    Myself,I prefer facts.

  183. Dan says:

    In case folk miss this from Rev’s twitter feed.
    It seems relevant after last few articles.

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1202909241666940928

  184. Heather says:

    I think it was a mistake writing this and I’m disappointed. The SNP do not support Brexit and the only other party in Scotland apart from the Greens to be staunchly anti-Brexit are the Lib Dems which makes me think that’s the reason for the SNP campaigning on this issue.We all know we need the SNP for independence and every vote counts so this kind of tone is very damaging.

  185. Bob Mack says:

    @Heather,

    Not sure you understand. The photos clearly say.Stop Brexit.

  186. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Very disappointing so near this critical election to get bogged down by things which would need Scottish Parliament to approve them after independence so therefore can be postponed till then.”

    No they bloody wouldn’t. They’re devolved issues and Holyrood is acting on them RIGHT NOW.

  187. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Richard will have been responding to questions about Clarks billboard message.
    It looks as if you’ve taken his comment out of context here.”

    “Out of context”? Fuck off. I linked to the entire video and there’s nothing remotely out of context about the clip anyway. Any SNP candidate publicly disowning independence for any reason is no use to me.

  188. cirsium says:

    Like the sea change in the btl comments this morning. Good to see old Wingers back.

    @ian brotherhood, 5.12am
    whether SNP emerges with 56 seats or none, the upshot will be exactly the same i.e. we’re still not independent and still have no idea when indy2 is going to happen. so true Ian.

    Rev – I’ve been reading Wings since it started in 2011. It is one of my go-to sites because of the incisive analysis and the honesty of the writing. Please keep doing what you are doing.

  189. Republicofscotland says:

    “Any SNP candidate publicly disowning independence for any reason is no use to me.”

    Even in marginal seats, just to get a bigger number of SNP MPs into Westminster to say right we have a big majority now regarding our indyref Boris.

  190. Grey Gull says:

    More snp bashing on Politics Live BBC1

  191. Breeks says:


    desimond says:
    6 December, 2019 at 10:56 am
    All those folk moaning about how this is damamaging to SNP

    Has anyone felt energised and pumped by this SNP Campaign?

    What IS damaging to the SNP, – it has literally cost them a seat in the Scottish Parliament already, is an internal faction inside the SNP trawling the internet and social media to embarrass and discredit SNP candidates in the weeks before an election. Who the fk thought that was a good idea??? Neale Hanvey wasn’t ‘outed’ by the media or opposition politicos, it was a storm very much inside the SNP’s teacup, in its entirety.

    What is more, denigration of Mr Hanvey as an alleged anti-Semite reveals an awkward presence of blatant hypocrisy, where important SNP players who were quick to malign Mr Hanvey and distance themselves from his campaign, are themselves “guilty” of no less anti Semitic innuendo for which Mr Hanvey was deselected. Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    If you want to question timing, motives, and loyalties in causing these ructions, question theirs.

    If you do perceive Rev Stu’s comments as a threat to the SNP’s chances next week, then you’re really not paying attention. This storm in the SNP’s tea cup was not orchestrated by Rev Stu, but the Trans-Rights Self ID lobby, dredging the internet for historic remarks or comments which can be conflated, by them, into anti Semitic smears targeting SNP candidates. They’d already tried getting Joanna Cherry deselected for the “crime” of supporting women’s rights.

    There’s currently a fox snarling in SNP’s hen house, and yet the SNP is apparently mesmerised and doesn’t want to know… But that’s the reason why the Wings over Scotland guard dog is barking.

    I hope, and I think, we will survive this… Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath are living testimony that forced to make the choice, shenanigans at the SNP will not be permitted by the good people of Scotland to upset the Indy Apple cart… but it’s safe to say it isn’t helpful.

    But beyond next week, the SNP really needs to get a fkg grip on this, and act decisively and re-ignite it’s Independence mojo, and personally, I hope to God that includes a new found dedication to Scotland’s sovereign Constitution. I don’t want to hear another word on ‘Trans’ anything unless it’s a Transition Agreement to cover the breaking apart of the UK.

    The complacency and procrastination has got to stop, and some heads need to roll I think. I don’t think I’d put Nicola’s name on the list, not yet anyway… but patience is running mightily short.

    As for Campaign message, there is absolutely no mileage in Scotland for stopping Brexit. Stopping Scotland’s Brexit however, is NOT the same thing. I have no problem with Brexit going ahead, provided it doesn’t affect Scotland. People should get what they voted for.

    Maybe the SNP just need to get a longer bus and a wider stage…

    Don’t deny England it’s exit from Europe. Just make sure they don’t drag us out with them. The Union cannot survive in those circumstances, and that suits me just fine.

  192. Terry says:

    @JLT
    10.30
    Such wise words. I echo what you are saying. Go read it folks.

  193. Wee Alex says:

    Whether you like it or not the SNP are the only route to Independence.

    They are where they are because they are at the heart of the community. They have councillors, MSPs and MPs all doing good work and have the respect of the community through decades of competence.

    It strikes me that Wings sees himself as the Nigel Farage of the Independence movement. Farage likes to claim that Brexit oy happening because oh him but we all know its the ultra right wing of the Tory Party who pull the strings.

    Populism is short term, just ask Tommy Sheridan, who I admire very much but he is sidelined.

    I worry that recent threads are implying nondemocratic ways of achieving independence.

    I’d urge those desperate for independence to take stock, the end game is near and now is not the time to be undermining the very people who will get you Independence

  194. Scot_Brand says:

    Seriously? Fuck off? That’s your argument?
    Well frankly your supposed independence blog ain’t no use to me.
    Cheerio

  195. Abulhaq says:

    UK politics is grinding to a halt mired in communal phobias and prejudices and other side issues.
    The major existential, political issue in Scotland is independence. Effectively it is our only lifesaver to extract us from the thrall of neo-colonial unionism.
    The SNP should have no truck with the system, should oppose, restrict and ‘incommode’ it at every turn.
    Devolved status is institutionalised statelessness.
    Bite the hand that binds before the bonds tighten.

  196. Breastplate says:

    Scot Brand,
    Don’t you think independence supporters should be worried that SNP politicians or representatives are distancing themselves from independence?
    Seriously, do you have an opinion on that? I’d certainly like to hear it if you do.

  197. Bob Mack says:

    @Scot Brand,

    Not the Revs fault you cant be arsed to read his FULL rep!y.

    Thats your problem

  198. Breastplate says:

    As I’ve mentioned before, there are legitimate reasons to criticise the SNP and the idiots in charge of strategy, however there’s little hope of any change with less than a week to the election.
    I’m sure many of us would have liked a definite date for Indyref2 by now but we are where we are.

    Let’s have a truce and focus on getting as many people as possible to vote SNP regardless if you agree with every single policy or not.

  199. Niall Campbell Morrison says:

    I presume MI5 have finally got to you…

  200. Johnny says:

    Triangulation.

  201. I left the SNP when they approved same sex marriage my reason being that the SNP had done a survey and the result was 64 per cent against 36 per cent for the SNP backed the 36per cent and ignored the majority 64 per cent I phoned in and resigned telling them that was not democracy it was dictatorship to back a minority against a majority ., so you see Stu., they have form on this kind of thing I am sure most of the ordinary people could run a better independence campaign than the SNP has done by just speaking out about the media lies etc., instead of just putting up with it and therefor in a sense condoning it the people seem to want independence more than the SNP ???

  202. With independence, Scottland will SET ALL TAXES, COLLECT ALL TAXES, INCLUDING NATIONAL INSURANCE, SPEND ALL TAXES FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND.

  203. JGedd says:

    I agree with much of what you say Breastplate @ 1.23pm. I can vote for my local SNP candidate (D&G) with no qualms. However, there are some constituencies in which I would have to vote with considerable misgivings and I would deeply resent that.

    There is no time, of course, to alter things but after the election I think that some much needed reflection is required. What seems to have been happening is that there appears to be a minority of people not acting in good faith for their own ends over one issue.

    Again if indyref2 becomes an actuality then there will be practical reasons for restraint but in my long experience with voting for Labour in Scotland, burying your head in the sand and ignoring entryism does not work.

    I developed considerable reservations about what was happening within the Labour party which many would try to suppress by the usual demands to just ignore my own instincts and keep supporting Labour. Forty years ago I had had enough of this and began voting SNP realising that separating from the Westminster system was the only way to disentangle from the evils of factionalism. ( Of course, also, more importantly, by this time convinced that independence itself was necessary for Scotland.)

    I found Blair deeply suspect from before his advent as Labour leader but many people found him inspiring and the way forward, despite having their own personal misgivings about his “modernising” ambitions. Eventually they, too, became disillusioned and we know what happened to Labour under Blair which now seems beyond salvage in Scotland.

    I can’t see the future but would caution that a rush to arms is not wise – no party divided against itself can thrive but also blind loyalty is in the end self-defeating.
    People being sacrificed or silenced because of fear of a highly-motivated minority is also very disturbing. If we have reached that point, then wiser heads in the SNP had better prevail.

  204. Joe says:

    @ William Purves

    Not if that is SNP independence…you know, the independence within the EU sort of stuff.

  205. Jack Murphy says:

    The only viable party for independence is slowly step by step the SNP.

    SNP at this General Election.
    Definitely.

  206. dadsarmy says:

    Conclusion:

    There are some arseholes in the SNP, and some of them are candidates for MP.

    Who knew?

  207. dadsarmy says:

    Oh, that should have been on the previous thread. Here’s better.

    Conclusion:

    Different constituencies have different prioritites. Little point in concentrating a campaign about fishing boats in Glasgow North, or urban pollution in the Highlands.

    Surprisingly the candidate for Gordon tailored his campaign to his constituency.

    How refreshing! If Carlsberg made politicians …

  208. Breastplate says:

    JGedd, I believe you’re correct.

  209. liz says:

    I’m almost laughing at all the pro indy folk having a go at the Rev for publishing the truth.
    It’s been the same for many, mainly women pro indy folk on twitter who have been warning against the trans issue

    Most of us got slagged off, stay in your lane, eye on the prize, you’re an MI5 plant, wheesht for indy, you never were an indy supporter, etc etc.
    What I see here is a lot of mainly men, who’ve closed their minds to the assault on women’s rights.

    We’ve been warning you for at least one year that this was going to blow and many of us thought it would be around GE time.
    Now many of the mainly men who’ve ignored us are now wakening up,why?
    Because what we warned you of its happening.

    Good people getting chucked under a bus, because the woke brigade think they’re untouchable.
    It’s not the Rev to blame, it’s all of you who thought you could ignore what was happening.

    Many women, not me, have now said they will not vote SNP. These people are not plants, but they’ve had enough.

    By all means go to other sites to have your concerns massaged, it will not take away from the fact that damage is being done and this could’ve been stopped with more support from those who these changes will not effect.

    Don’t shoot the messenger

  210. dadsarmy says:

    What I see here is a lot of mainly men, who’ve closed their minds to the assault on women’s rights.

    That’s a very sexist comment, hardly designed to win hearts and minds. It’s basically a misogynistic accusation of misogyny against men who have wives and daughters, as well as sisters and mothers perhaps. And people you don’t know and have never met. People who, for all you know, might be activists in terms of equality for all.

    Do you really want to be as bad as the extremist trans activists? Well, DO YOU?

    And your divisive posting is precisely the reason why this is divisive in terms of the General Election, and Independence, and why so many would prefer to see it delayed till at least after 12th December, considering that so far, and I repeat:

    THERE IS NO LEGISLATION EVEN PUBLISHED BY THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT SO FAR

  211. carjamtic says:

    Good work Rev.

    The SNP need to be careful….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY9GJAm8bA

  212. liz says:

    Yup I see Dad you have a problem with the troublesome truth.
    Remember I’ve been posting about this for over a year and it is mainly men.

    Now we have several great male allies, the Rev for one, but you have no idea how many pro indy men have called me a 5th columnist.
    So unless you’re in possession of different information, I’ll call it like I see it

  213. AnotherAyrshireScot says:

    What Ayrshire Scot said

    What possible positive outcome could this produce? Wonder what you’ll have to say next Friday when Nicola and Jeremy are announcing the 2020 referendum. At worst it’s the best hope we have. The more SNP seats the better

  214. robertknight says:

    Firstly, I’ll vote SNP until we’re Independent, so let us clarify that bit.

    However, I’m beginning to wonder just what the future would hold for the SNP in an independent Scotland. A bit like the Brexit Party in a post-Brexit UK; when your raison d’etre ceases to exist, what exactly are you for?

    Sure, you can argue for social justice, climate action, no nukes etc. But the field becomes pretty crowded pretty quickly in the centre-left and without a stand-out policy, such as Indy, what’s your USP?

    Could some be of the opinion that Indy would see the death of the SNP as we know it, and are acting to ensure that such never happens? Where the ‘professionals’ within the SNP are concerned, are us Yessers simply the gift that keeps on giving? Just a thought…

    But hold your nose, if you must, and vote SNP, whatever your misgivings. We owe it to future generations if not to ourselves.

  215. McDuff says:

    Scot Brand
    Good riddance, you won’t find a site that does what wings does.

  216. dadsarmy says:

    Yup I see Dad you have a problem with the troublesome truth.

    Sigh. You appear to have reading difficulties.

  217. ScotsRenewables says:

    McDuff says:
    6 December, 2019 at 5:59 pm
    Scot Brand
    Good riddance, you won’t find a site that does what wings does.

    I think you will find plenty of other sites sagging off the SNP this week if you look.

    Wings is no longer doing what it did, it is fighting an entirely different battle now.

    – W

  218. Ghillie says:

    I am a woman and I will be voting SNP.

    And I support Independence for Scotland.

    I used to be a keen follower of Wings’ articles and comments.

    Now I think it is just morbid curiosity.

    It is good to still hear some familiar voices as well as new voices with interesting comments who are also determined to keep fighting for Scotland’s Independence. Though I do miss the wisdom of those who are away elsewhere.

    There are excellent Indy sites to visit as mentioned above =)

    And as trying and tedious as the moles and trolls are, they won’t be left to their devices.

  219. Iain More says:

    Yup.I looked at the Election Lit I have had from the SNP and the word Independence doesn’t get mentioned once. Stop Brexit is in your face on that Lit.

    The Tory Election Lit on the other hand is obsessed with Indy Ref 2 and makes no reference at all to Scots Brexit vote to stay in EU.

    There is something rotten in the State of Denmark. But I have my nose peg ready to go to polling station next week and vote SNP. They are doing their best it seems to stop me voting for them though.

  220. dadsarmy says:

    @Iain More
    Mine did mention Independence on the outside back of the folded A5. In fact I gave the leaflet 100%. Three bits fro memory, giving Scotland a choice, Brexit and Independence.

    Mines’s North Ayrshire and Arran and I guess pretty safe. Perhaps yours is a more difficult constituency with a large 2014 NO vote?

  221. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Wonder what you’ll have to say next Friday when Nicola and Jeremy are announcing the 2020 referendum.”

    Would you like a £500 bet on that? Just say the word.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m stumped as to explaining the SNP’s apparent shift in political identity, though I think it is most likely grounded in a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of morality, and ignorance of the rational foundations of ethical jurespurence. The full-English Brexit provides the fulcrum needed to break the back of British nationalism. It highlights how Westminster does not recognise the Scottish public as possesing legal rights. Unfortunately, the SNP does not appear to have a strategy for exploiting this opportunity, and have instead selected to acquiesce to English cultural chauvanism. Scotland will find it much harder to protect itself from English Torydum, once we are out of the EU.

    From a meta-ethical perspective that is grounded in naturalist realism, insisting that a thing is something that it is clearly, empirically, not, is about as naughty and morally unsustainable as it gets (see contemporary British nationalism and trans-ideology in law).

    REASON AND NATURAL LAW
    https://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/centers/boisi/pdf/f09/Pope_Reason_and_Natural_Law.pdf

  223. Jock Tamson says:

    The reason the Rev is highlighting the Self ID issue is because it shows how the SNP leadership is indulging a tiny self centred obsessive lunatic fringe that wants to overturn basic social conventions. It is a crazy policy that ultimately will make the SNP unelectable and Independence a forlorn dream. Be warned, sort this madness out now.

  224. peter newling says:

    The SNP has to attract the votes of (a) Independence supporters, many of whom were not enthused in the last General Election, and (b) Remainers, many of whom are not for Independence but might vote SNP for stop-brexit reasons.
    One group requires Independence to be “Front and centre”of campaigning. The other group requires Independence to be soft-pedalled if they are to be tempted over.

    These are contrary requirements. A judgement has to be made how to pitch the campaign. Very difficult.

    Don’t you see the difficulty? It seems you would choose to play up Independence and have less of the Stop Brexit stuff. OK, that’s your judgement, Stuart – but it is wrong to criticise as though the SNP’s judgement is dishonest or insincere or a betrayal. It is a very tricky balance to strike.

  225. Anton Pillar says:

    Is it a requirement of SNP Candidates to support Independence? If it is, it sounds like a biased membership requirement.

    On BBC’s Question Time for the Under 30’s the SNP’s Humza Yousaf said that the SNP’s end to the right to buy your council house is a ‘good thing’. He was the last to speak on the subject of housing and was sitting nervously waiting to speak on the subject. If you’ve lived in the same council house for 30+ years and paid full rent and looked after it well you should be entitled to buy it at a reasonable price. I think it’s a very bad policy. The English people in the audience thought he was talking about some terrible totalitarian state where you cannot buy your house – and they’d be right!

    In the SNP election broadcast on Dec. 10th at 7pm (BBC) they said vote SNP to prevent the NHS being sold off to American companies. That’s bare faced lies: the NHS in Scotland is 100% run by the Scottish Parliament, so Westminster have absolutely no say in how our budget is spent i.e. on which agencies, suppliers (medical equipment or pharmaceutical supplies) or contractors the NHS use.

    I cannot support the SNP for these reasons. There is another cracking lie in the Liberal Democrats broadcast, but I haven’t time to explain it.



Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top