The lies you get
Having spent the last few months pleading poverty and pitiful-underdog status, “Better Together” this week appeared to have suddenly remembered that £500,000 cheque it got ages ago from Tory oil tycoon (and friend of genocidal war criminals everywhere) Ian Taylor, and started spending some of it.
12-page colour inserts in newspapers like the Daily Record and Guardian don’t come cheap, and hundreds of thousands of Scots found themselves looking at a small booklet which didn’t identify its source until the very last page, and could have been taken by the unwary to have been a production by the newspapers themselves.
(Especially given the little pale blue “sticker” on the front using what looks very much like the Guardian’s own typeface).
But that was the least of the dishonesty in “The Facts You Need”.
We’ll get through this as quickly as we can, but even the covers need a quick debunking. As well as the laughable assertion on the front that the document contains “facts”, the back claims the referendum decision is between an idyllic future and a dystopian nightmare.
But there’s NO justification offered whatsoever for saying independence would mean “bigger cuts” or “fewer jobs”. The reverse is likely to be true. Independence will bring an immediate saving of £1bn a year to the Scottish budget, and Scottish versions of numerous UK departments like HMRC and the DWP would obviously need to be created, instantly generating many thousands of jobs in the public sector.
Even the Financial Times acknowledges that “an independent Scotland could expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK”, so why would there need to be more cuts when we’re both richer and spending less anyway?
“All the information in this document comes from impartial experts, economists and employers. “
A barefaced lie. Very few sources are actually cited, and almost all of the ones that are are UK government bodies like the Scotland Office, ONS and OBR. Where there are quotes, they’re highly selective and/or wildly out of context.
But we’ll get to those as we go along.
The left-hand page comprises empty speculation and innuendo. Nobody has a clue what the mortgage rate in either an independent Scotland or a Scotland within the UK will be in six months, never mind any further into the future. The Bank of England is widely expected to increase interest rates soon:
(There’s also no inherent reason that domestic interest rates in Scotland should increase, even if the Scottish Government itself were to have higher borrowing costs. People don’t take out their mortgages with the government, and Scotland’s state finances have no impact on an individual family’s ability to pay.)
As for groceries, prices are already different in different parts of the country. Indeed, they’re often different even at different branches of the same supermarket chain in the same city. (Have you ever shopped in a Tesco Extra and then in a Tesco Metro a mile away?) And they’re a little higher in Ireland because Ireland is ACROSS A SEA, which most of Scotland isn’t.
It won’t get any more expensive to ship things to Dundee in an independent Scotland than it is to ship things to Dundee now. Dundee will still be in the same place. And grocery retailing is an incredibly competitive business – any chain which was seen to discriminate against Scotland would be severely punished by customers.
Most of the big supermarket chains have distanced themselves from suggestions in the UK media that prices could rise as a result of independence. Morrisons even went so far as to say the opposite.
As for the right-hand page, the UK government’s own pensions minister Steve Webb publicly destroyed the scare stories just days ago. Anyone entitled to a UK state pension receives it regardless of whether they live in the UK or not, a fact which had in any event already been made clear by the DWP back in January 2013.
Meanwhile, the graph on the pensions page is a particularly farcical piece of sheer fantasy in all manner of ways – nobody has ever been able to accurately predict oil revenues or population demographics 12 months ahead, let alone 20 years.
And why are the two completely unrelated things plotted against each other in the first place? And why does one of them start on a zero axis and the other one two-thirds of the way up? That’s a rhetorical question, of course.
We’ve done this one already. Phew, that’s a time-saver.
These two pages contain the most densely-packed lies in the booklet.
“Experts agree that going it alone would put our schools and hospitals at risk.”
None of these “experts” are named or quoted.
The “public spending” line has been endlessly shot to pieces. Spending per head in Scotland is indeed around £1200 higher in Scotland, but tax receipts are around £1700 higher, so we already pay for every penny of “extra” spending plus £500 each on top that goes straight into Westminster’s coffers.
“Impartial research from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said that leaving the UK would mean huge cuts to vital public services, tax rises or a combination of the two.”
The IFS figures are based, illogically, on an independent Scotland having the exact same spending plans as it does within the UK now (so what would be the point of being independent?) and therefore totally ignore the £1bn+ saving every year that could be made solely on defence and not paying for HS2 for the next two decades. They’re completely meaningless in the context of Scotland actually having its own government.
Oh, and what does that same Institute for Fiscal Studies say will come to Scotland if it stays in the UK? That’s right – huge cuts to vital public services.
Ironically, the fall in 2012-13 oil revenues was a result of companies investing record amounts of money into future production, which they were able to offset against profits. Why did they make record levels of investment? Because they think there’s an awful lot of money to be made from Scottish oil for decades to come.
And that’s only in the North Sea. Independence would free up the Clyde Basin off the west coast – currently off limits due to Trident submarines – for exploration, potentially producing many more billions of pounds in tax receipts.
“A potential oil boom off the west coast of Scotland was blocked by Westminster defence chiefs.
Even if finance companies moved their registered addresses after independence – and there are no reasons to believe they would – the chances of them moving the actual jobs are extremely remote. The address of a company’s nameplate doesn’t affect its business, and relocating offices with thousands of employees would be a huge and totally unnecessary expense.
BAE Systems, the only remaining military shipbuilder in the UK, has already said that its Clyde shipyards are the only places it can build the Royal Navy’s new frigates. The Navy has admitted that the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers can ONLY be completed at Rosyth, even if Scotland becomes independent. Every piece of No-camp scaremongering about shipbuilding has been proven to be a lie.
Of course, the Union hasn’t proven much of a safeguard anyway. No less a figure than Gordon Brown helpfully pointed out earlier this year that Rosyth used to employ 15,000 workers in its shipbuilding industry. Under the security and protection of the UK that number has plummeted by 93%, to just 1000.
And we’ve already done the “research funding” thing too.
Last one, thank goodness. The graph on the left-hand page is hilarious. It points out that Scotland has a far lower GDP than the UK, curiously neglecting to point out that that’s because the UK is 12 times Scotland’s size. Multiply the Scottish figure by 12 (well, actually by 11.905) for a per-capita-equivalent comparison and it’s actually 2.57 trillion dollars, compared to the UK figure of 2.48 trillion.
In other words, an independent Scotland would be richer per head, even according to the UK government’s own quoted figures, than it would be as part of the UK. Whoops.
Finally, the currency and bank bailout scare stories get yet another tired airing, despite the fact that even No voters don’t believe them. And the fact that even UK government ministers have said that “of course there will be a currency union”. And the fact that we were told just a couple of pages earlier that all the banks would leave. And the fact that that’s not how bank bailouts actually work anyway.
And that’s that. We couldn’t help noticing, incidentally, that there isn’t a word about Europe or the EU in the entire document (except for a single passing mention of the size of Scottish exports on page 5). That could be because Labour MEP David Martin last week revealed that the No campaign’s scare stories about Schengen and being forced to join the Euro were rubbish:
“They’re not going to force us to join Schengen. They’re not going to force us to join the Euro.”
Or it might be that “Better Together” are simply pandering to the anti-European UKIP agenda dominating UK politics, or perhaps conversely that they realise the absurd hypocrisy of warning that Scotland might not be admitted to the EU even as the UK pushes ever-closer to leaving it. We just don’t know, and we suspect they don’t either.
What we CAN say for certain is that they’ve just blown a lot of money telling Scots an absolute tissue of lies – not just in our opinion but which can be comprehensively proven as such, often by using the UK government’s own figures.
We think Scots deserve better than that. We’re working on it.
Whatever that booklet cost, Yes need to match and spell out the positives of Independence. However while we are all immersed in the ‘wee things’ of the debate, my experience some folk still don’t know the basics ie NHS Scotland being entirely Scottish already. Which is weird we need to educate first on what we have, before expanding on what we could have.
We have just got to keep leafleting organising meetings and street events to show these lies for what they are.
You must remember Rob (I’m doing it for the money) Shorthouse BTs press guy , his wife works in marketing at the Record.
Why do they always seem so keen to ask about
postal votes?
I never seem to see this anywhere else.
Is it just me being cynical?
I apologise if I come across as Thicky McThick here, but is anyone going to produce a rebuff leaflet and ideally get this into the papers in a similar fashion?
An Ally McCoist graph in there as well, comparing public spending.
I apologise if I come across as Thicky McThick here, but is anyone going to produce a rebuff leaflet and ideally get this into the papers in a similar fashion?
(Sorry, email address typo.)
The Rev at his Sunday best!
Lost the head with this yesterday, my Dad got it in the Daily Retard. Filled in part 2 with ‘The bare faced lies in this booklet’ and posted back to them
That’s a complete shocker.
How do you persuade people who only get their info from the MSM, that this is a pack of lies?
I don’t think being free in the Guardian would have much impact – in fact why them? – but certainly the Record has a greater reach.
The Yes campaign needs to refute these one by one but with the BBC being institutionally against indy, we are up against it.
What with that and KMcK over in the Observer – I’m glad I no longer get that paper – stirring up the whole sectarian stew again, it’s quite depressing.
His article, which I looked at via Peter Bell, has encouraged a whole load of comments such as ‘and they are Anti-English as well’.
The whole Old Firm crap is kept going by the Brit establishment – divide and rule, it’s what they are past masters at.
In combatting this rubbish from BT, sadly at present there are too few useful materials available from YesScotland. OK, there are good articles on the web, on sites like this, but for those who prefer printed leaflets, there is, to my knowledge, no concise leaflet putting the case for independence, the case for leaving the UK, and answering the common questions. Hopefully, YesScotland will remedy this, or else Wings will fill the void.
Nice bit of dissection there Rev. Wonder how much it cost BT to have this guff printed and inserted only to be taken apart in one article?
Kind of a waste of cash and time on their part rehashing old scare stories that have already been conclusively debunked as and when they first appeared. You’d think they would concentrate on a new approach with only three and a half months to go? But no, they keep on trying to throw a fright into their own electorate.
Like that’ll endear them to the electorate or make for any kind of trusting partnership.
Tick tock BT.
Is this not cause for a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority? The use of the word “facts” without unequivocal evidence to back it up is reason enough for a complaint and sounds like a good case for ASA action.
“Is this not cause for a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority?”
No. Political ads are exempt.
When does the YES campaign start?
Last link, contained in We’re working on it. is to a fantastic article from earlier this year.
Which prompts me to ask, when is the Wee Blue Book coming out, Rev?
@ Bunter says, I imagine once the opposition has wasted all it’s ammunition and once you see the whites of their eyes.
No need to interfere when your enemy is making mistakes the way they are. It will all be much fresher in the minds of the voters and then we will know how well Labour are doing dawn south nearer the time.
I read this booklet yesterday, and as you say they never named any of their of so called experts, its just full of assumptions on the behalf of the BT Camp. It must be utterly inconceivable that the no camp could win this referendum, on information based on lie after lie. Then again so much of history is based on lies.
We need to call them out as “liars” at every opportunity and this will start to put doubt in the minds of the “no’s and don’t knows”. When the lies can’t be defended people will look for the truth. Nobody wants to be seen as a mug or a sucker. The truth will win!
Stu,
I think you need to foreward every article on campaign advertising with “Politcal Ads are exempt”.
I do wonder, are these leaflets being targeted at specific locations where they think they can con the public because I haven’t seen one.
Given the sheer weight of adverts in the papers, film houses and internet, for both BT and NOBs, it would be interesting to get a feel for how much they have spent. It seems to me that they have seriously splashed the cash in the run up to the formal campaign where much stricter controls apply.
I guess the question is whether it is money well spent? I doubt many will recall this stuff on the ballot day when there will, by then, have been weeks of much more intense campaigning in the run up to the vote.
Vote YES rebuttal, just read the news from the heart of ConDem teamGB and why they must stop Scottish democracy.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Interest bill on UK’s £1.27 trillion debt to hit £1bn a week
Larger-than-expected deficit keeps debt interest on track to hit £52bn this year
Scotland must pay a share of these 191 major spends in England, with HS2 London to Birmingham most prominent amber/red Westminster overspends including two aircraft carriers, English student fees, Thameslink rail etc
link to telegraph.co.uk
More lies and to think if you read the damn things it might change our vote, HUH ??
I would guess the leaflet will end up where most do . The bin or the bottom of the budgies cage, were it can soak up the sh*t instead of us.
Speaking about the UKIP down south i was quietly surprised to hear many voice their thoughts on more tory govt. I know the SLAB team hate the SNP but i would say they hate the tory’s more. I always throw in a few digs about the fact they are working with the enemy and boy do the hard liners take the huff.
Its my hope that the Indi teams are biding their time before they come out all guns blazing.After all it’s summer time and folk have their holidays to think of, bairns off school the likes.
I would say “wait till we see the white of their eyes” before we start fighting back. Although i know its bloody hard work just waiting. More than a few occasions i’ve fretted over bile that comes from the BT mob.
But its still early doors and you just know deep down A.Salmond has something up his sleeve. I would love him to start but i guess its an issue on timing.
Thanks Stu posted off links to mates. And to all “Wingers” keep faith. Its a marathon not a sprint
Good job done here in spiking the latest booklet from the ‘NAWS’, it must have cost a bit to produce.
Met some ‘YESSERS’ this morning in Glenrothes out window shopping. They had been to the YES stall on Saturday and were sporting a variety of coloured badges. Six altogether + me with my enamelled made seven.
One said he’s working on his dad (alicsalmon factor) but he said his mum’s a yes.
PS:
AS says an oil fund starts on day one of independence as the numbers allow it. It must be true it’s in NNS.
I’d really like to see some of the money the Weirs have donated to the Yes campaign used for a counter booklet, and added to every newspaper in Scotland, or put through every letter box.
I know politics always involves a certain level of dishonesty – sadly, we expect that, no matter which politicians are speaking – but the levels of it which have spewed out of the No camp for months have been staggering, and it’s not been little white lies either, it’s been bare faced outright massive lies. The claims about the NHS and pensions, in particular, play on the ignorance of people to the truth of the matter, and for every one person who we educate, there are ten more who still believe this crap.
And nobody seems to be framing this debate with the obvious question – the one I always ask anyone thinking of voting No, or undecided: if Scotland costs the UK money, and our oil is running out, and we are such a basket case financially that we couldn’t afford to go it alone, then why is Westminster so anxious to hang onto us?
When you phrase it like that most people go “because….”, and then they can’t find any reason. Unless they start from the position of assuming what Westminster is telling them is lies – and then it starts to make sense.
I’m left hoping that the sheer scale of the lies and the apocalyptic picture of an independent Scotland the No campaign are painting is so ridiculous that people will think “hang on, that can’t be right”, because from where I’m sitting the Yes campaign, at least so far, don’t seem to be doing a very good job of countering the lies. Sites like this do help, but many of the people who need convincing the most get their “facts” exclusively from the MSM, either in print or on TV, and those outlets are mostly ignoring sites like this – probably because sites like this are actually doing honest journalism, and that’s gotta sting.
I’d really like to see some of the money the Weirs have donated to the Yes campaign
Should read “I’d really like to see some of the money the Weirs and many others have donated to the Yes campaign
D’oh.
@Ian Grant
Agree 100%.
We are being completely naive to think that this propaganda is not reaching a mass audience (which it is), or that it will not make an impression on at least a section of voters that Yes need to get over 50%. It’s reinforcing every scare story they are being fed every day from the MSM, but in a more direct & compact form.
Stu has just done an excellent de-construct. Is it beyond the wit of the Yes campaign to do likewise & compile a ‘facts/benefits of independence’ booklet similar to BT’s? Could such a booklet not be enclosed free with The Sun (which has a higher readership than the Record) &, say, the Sunday Herald?
Guardian seems an odd choice. You have to look hard to see it on sale in Scottish papershops these days.
BT have been very visible and active recently, Yes by comparison seems to be lying low.
Probably letting euro results pass before kicking off the campaign proper. They really need to pick it up over the next couple if months.
I’m getting nervous already and it’s only May!
I still think it’s too early to fire. People are not engaging yet and this panic spending by the unionists is largely wasted.
The campaign will be won by timing and truth.
I am confident the delivery will be perfect and ramped up at exactly the right pace.
Our job is to hold the line until that point. The unionists have fired some of their top stuff early trying to spike the YES campaign early.
When the final push comes they will have nothing and repeating the same scare stories for the umpteenth time will have no impact.
Who appears confident and who appears to be in a panic.
We were promised a referendum and it was delivered. Maintain the pressure and wait!
Smile and think of the celebrations!
I still live in hope the SG and YES have many more gears to go through. I find all the lies manipulation from Westminster and actioned through to compliant and openly bias media, is becoming epic in scale.
Whatever happens they are causing bad blood by these actions that will not be forgotten, how could it be. This will be put into history as the big DECEIVE.
While I understand the no’s have their right, however to reject your own country from it’s independence, is so appalling that this will never be forgotten in the eyes of the world. We will forever be a laughable back water.
We really must win this.
Surely, in the interests of an informed debate, rather than whinge on the sidelines, it’s incumbent upon all of us to point out these errors direct to Better Together (at their expense)?
link to pic.twitter.com
O/T Rev. I do apologise.
Top US intelligence chief say,Scotland should be more grateful to the USA for saving Europe from the Nazi’s during WWII. Congressman and ex-FBI agent Mike Rodgers reacted with fury, when he learned of the growing campaign in Scotland to give Edward Snowden, “Political Asylum” when Scotland becomes independent.
I’d also give Julian Assange asylum if they could smuggle him out of the Chilean Embassy.
-Edward-Snowden" rel="nofollow ugc">link to express.co.uk
I find no voters and many undecided regurgitate newspaper headlines. They barely get as far as the stories, but, if they do, they swallow the lot hook, line and sinker.
@annewitha_e Anne, I agree with you. Many just don’t know the difference between Westminster and Scottish government responsibilities nor that NHS Scotland is a separate organisation from NHS England, etc., etc. What’s more concerning is the lack of interest in finding out anything about the way we are governed (too much trouble) and because they don’t understand, we hear the daftest, often trivial reasons for being undecided or against.
We have to keep talking and delivering information and sources because MSM isn’t going to be even-handed – ever.
It costs in time, effort and money and when it comes to that and making every penny count, Mark Coburn arrives back in Glasgow today after cycling from Rome in support of Yes group funds. There are only 4 days left for his crowd-funding effort and it needs a real boost, being only a third of the way there. It is an “ask”, but, if you can, donate here:
link to indiegogo.com
Anne (@annewitha_e)
“Our cost of living crisis will be better than yours”, to paraphrase a better together positive campaign claim.
If you happen to have these leaflets please do send them back (costs BT cash), also tell them you are undecided and let them chase your vote (more cash and effort).
Dear Rev Stu
Apologies for leaving the cut and paste link at the bottom of my last post. Meant to remove it after I had copied it.
Please don’t put me on the naughty stool 🙁
Apolgies but I’ve just lifted this from the last topic as it is much more appropriate here. I penned it as I read the pamphlet we are now discussing here
The fact is that the Better Together campaign is travelling now on outright lies and I assume the YES campaign has a plan to use this fact. Growing numbers of people are already wakening up to this but once somebody understands he is being lied to he is unlikely to trust anything the liar tells him after that -even if it is the truth.
If we establish two things – we are comfortably self supporting (even without the oil) and that Better Together is telling lies – and more importantly it is telling lies that only stupid people will believe – we win.
All the rest is froth.
Better Together runs on the premise That Scotland exists on UK largesse and is subsidised. All its arguments rely on this unthinking assumption which is never actually stated.
Take that assumption away and you take away all its case.
O/T
I assume you have all sent back your Freepost booklet from Better Together which is included in many of today’s papers. You should of course identify yourself as an independence supporter on it and give compelling reasons why you are. Previous political commitment is included and gives opportunity for imaginative invention if that’s what you enjoy.
200,000 independence replies will cost Better Together or Vote Nobs a very large sum of money
To totally and absolutely rebuff this rubbish from BT is to produce something similar and send it directly into the homes across the land. Not a one off either, it needs a weekly 16-page newspaper including a booklet (with 16 parts concentrating on indivudual themes, one week it’s pensions next week defence and so on) all crammed with every positive factual piece of information AND debate with comments from all the participating groups and recognised individuals. It has to be clear if there’s a NO vote then the Tories win and Cameron/Osbourne will have their Falklands moment in history which will guarantee them another two terms.
Over a 16-week period the budget will probably be around £2million to ensure production and delivery costs. It can then be complimented with its own simple website (downloadable copy) and Youtube channel where interviews and discussions can be held on the issues in the newspaper.
Effectively what needs to be created is the independence movements very own media outlet in print and digital. There is alot out there with Wings, Bella, NC, NNS and others doing an amazing job along with the volunteer who deliver the YES newspaper in all weathers. It needs to come together some how and be a fulcrum for the independence campaign.
Who can do this? Pulling resources together (people, ideas, finance) from Business for Scotland, NNS, Sunday Herald, SNP, Greens, YES and more, everyone would have a part to play. Can it be done? Can we reach the masses moreso than now?
I have been saying for months that a ukip victory in england will help the yes vote. it is no surprise that this leaflet campaign for bt has been hatched up today. It is an attempt to offset the UKIP effect
I have crowd funded much for YES
I even attempted to buy a YES campaign starter pack(£58) on the yes website but the internal links refused to allow the sale
YES cannot do the same as BT, the MSM wont let them
question, if yes have a campaign chest as big as no, where is the money being spent?
Social media has taken us as far as we can go, it it wrent for Wings et all we would already be dead in the water.
we need to set up the networks of distribution
more importantly we need to canvas. not something the un initiated can or are willing to do. we need to organise the newspaper deliveries so that we deliver in bulk for footsoldiers to deliver.
the wingers should use their knowledge of the subject to canvas, this is the next stage in this campaign. we need to get literature into every house in scotland, we also need to get a foot into the jar of the door of every house as well
It would cost about £1800 to post a 8 page newspaper to every home in each constituency
BT go on about cherry picking the best bits of the UK. Could they then tell us what are the bad bits of the UK?
It suprizes me that they havent targeted Jews Muslims Hindus and Siks or is their percent of the populis not enough to bother about? you know BT has been going on about the English 10% and the Cathlic 10% whos going to all vote for the union. i will tell you if i stood in central station and said half the shit these polititions said i would be in jail why not them?
Sunday Herald’s great this weekend, so its not all bettertogether bullshit artistry out there. Plus the freak show that is the BBC in Scotland is acting like the UKIP triumph never happened across the no border border, so something big is coming our way!
I agree with the idea of this leaflet being a waste of money..the message the No’s preach will always have negative overtones/undertones, no matter what way they try to spin it. The reaction to the cinema ads is a good example. Re the Yes side spending whoever’s money, let’s not forget that AS has still to enter the debate, as he is running the country at the moment and we already pay for him..Nae wuckin’ furries as I once heard.
Having had many a ‘Debate’ with the No siders, who cite all these lies as truth, I find it so frustration that no matter how many times I give them the facts and expose the lies they still say No? Most are ‘Unionists’ with no concept of what powers we already have. Ask them if they want Scotland to have more or less powers and you get silence, ask them if they want to pay for prescriptions, education etc, silence! They blame Alex Salmon for immigration (really Alex you have to stop smuggling folk in via Porpatrick! lol) I despair of my fellow Scots at times, however on the plus side, a lot of the loudest No sayers are not even registered to Vote, never have voted and probably won’t vote on 18th Sept. they just like to sound off!
I got a very similar leaflet through the door yesterday along with the “Better Together News” (wouldn’t you know it actually says ‘Free’). It was delivered by the BT team out on the ground in Kemnay yesterday I’d assume, so it’s likely to be hitting many more doorsteps throughout the country in the future and not just via newspaper inserts.
I’d already decided to send back their pre-paid’ reply with an answer along the lines of…
Q2.What issue will most affect the way you vote in the referendum?
The blatant lies and misinformation put out by the Better Together campaign and Unionist MPs designed to deliberately denigrate my country and deceive its people.
I’m also going to claim I voted Labour in answer to Q3, both parts, but write underneath “never again” to put the wind up them.
any wingers in the howe of fife?
My husband comes home with the paper in the mornings, empties it of all leaflets etc. and puts them in recycling before turning to the back page for the sport and I bet he isn’t the only one. I think a very small percentage of people will read these leaflets or even be aware of them.
“Better Together’ does not give US anything other a lifeline to the Westminster ‘glory days’ when Scotland and Wales had to toil incessantly to keep the Posh Boys in the manner to which they had become accustomed.
Without the hold of ‘jam tomorrow’ over the insecure, this can only continue to our detriment.
That world has gone – the new one is a meritocracy and bad news for those of a parasitical inclination.
We will willingly help the old, disadvantaged, the less fortunate – but for he others the massage is clear – earn your corn or go hungry.
Andy B @ 3.12 pm
FFS get your facts right he’s (still!) in the ECUADOREAN Embassy.
This is an idea I had that might be worth people trying.
I made up a DVD with some videos I downloaded from YouTube, things such as Ivan McKee, John Jappy, Dr Philippa Whitford, DWP (telling the truth about pensions) etc and also had a word document with lots of links to sites such as Wings, Newsnet etc on the DVD.
I have given it to a couple of people and it seems to be doing well as a few have come back saying they couldn’t believe what they had seen and asked why this stuff is never in the papers etc.
They are passing it onto friends so hopefully it will change a fair few minds.
@ Andy-B says:
You think that the USA should be more grateful to Scotland for their constitution and uppity electorate?
As well as the Alamo.
Hood, I have a similar idea but a business card size idea
one Pro eu All of the comments who say scotland will be in the eu, including nigel farage etc
One anti eu(eg all of the comments saying scotland will be booted out)
any chance you could post yer word doc with all of the links you have collected, they dont need to actually work, i can sort out the hyperlinks
@BtP
As well as the Alamo.
green grow the rashes oh
Schrodingers Cat
Don’t think I can attach a word doc here but I have pasted the links below, hope that is ok?
Some Websites
link to businessforscotland.co.uk (Business for Scotland)
link to wingsoverscotland.com (Wings Over Scotland)
link to newsnetscotland.com (NewsNet Scotland)
link to duggydug.com (Duggy Dug cartoon, voiced by Brian Cox)
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk (Bella Caledonia)
link to labourforindy.com (Labour for Independence)
link to womenforindependence.org (Women For Independence)
link to wealthynation.org (Conservatives? for Independence)
link to twitter.com (Farming for Yes)
link to twitter.com (EU Citizens for Independence)
Some interesting links
link to wingsoverscotland.com 1900 – 1921
link to blogger.com John Jappy Blog
link to ansionnachfionn.com George Galloway view on Gaels
link to ft.com Financial Times
link to bbc.co.uk BBC Professor Hughes Hallet interview
link to arewebettertogetherscotland.wordpress.com various info
link to archive.today cybernat numbers
link to archive.today cybernat email to mp, look at 19th May and read comments
link to wingsoverscotland.com advert of lies
link to wingsoverscotland.com politicians allowed to lie
link to arewebettertogetherscotland.wordpress.com What will happen to Scotlands NHS
link to yesscotland.net Doctor regarding cross border NHS
link to archive.today subs in rosyth
link to wingsoverscotland.com Darling saying oil will run out in 2017
@Schrodingers Cat
Green grow the rashes oh Does this mean I should be putting paraquat on my piles?
Schrodingers Cat
I did a cut and paste of the links but the post is under moderation, so maybe I will be getting a bollocking 😀
Anyway if it doesn’t appear I can maybe upload to some file sharing site later.
Rev, In this one article you’ve given me the ammunition to shoot down all the questions I’ll be getting thrown at me next week. Well done and thanks.
Oh and if it does appear I am afraid I screwed up the link for EU Citizens for Independence, should have been
link to facebook.com
@Schrodingers Cat re canvassing
You are spot-on about canvassing.
This is the way we can defeat the media lies.
I would recommend that anybody who had already been doing canvassing links up with somebody who hasn’t, but wants to, and arranges to go out together.
Once you have done it once you can do it again on your own if need be, or better still, go out again with another first-timer.
This is the way we can build a bigger and bigger army of canvassers between now and September.
I will be going out canvassing for YES Edinburgh on the next Super Saturday (7th June), and would be happy to go out that day with someone trying it for the first time.
If anybody is interested, email me at calgacus dot macandrews at braveheart dot info.
WHEN
June 07, 2014 at 11am – 1pm
WHERE
Car park of The Jewel Miners Club
56-60 Duddingston Park S
Edinburgh EH15 3LJ
@Hood, that’s a great idea and will reach many of the people who aren’t online. Wish we could post one through every door along with the Yes papers.
@Schrodingers Cat
This website has links to several sites: link to republicofscotland.com
I am working on one too on my blog.
I picked this leaflet up at the supermarket – it was sitting on the rack so I guess someone had taken it out of their paper and got rid.
Intend to send it back declaring ‘I strongly believe Scotland should be independent from the rest of the UK’. And yes, please send me a postal ballot form.
I wonder why they waste their money on this pish – the journalists in the UK press and BBC are ramming this message down the public’s throats everyday for them.
Game on – once the public wake up to what’s happened in down south we will start to see undecided moving to Yes in large numbers. It starts with the euros tonight.
I would recommend that anybody who had already been doing canvassing links up with somebody who hasn’t, but wants to, and arranges to go out together.
this is a great idea, i’ll propose this at nexy meeting. thanks
A bit O/T, but in our local paper shop, Sunday Herald on the come out for Yes Sunday, 04.05 14, it had 3 copies, of which I took 2. Following week, 4 copies, I’m in at the toot.
Then 6 copies. Today, counted 12 copies, so the Herald/Times Group will be watching revenue rise on being positive about Yes.
It’s appalling that a campaign to preserve the vaunted Union depends on ignorance and falsehood. What sort of better togetherism is that? Better not think for yourselves? All value descends from the heights of Westminster and you need to stay firmly in the stupid poor wee place that is yours by right or you’ll miss out on the beneficial trickle? There is no other way?
I was listening to Lesley Riddoch lately, speaking about the degree to which real democracy is kept firmly out of our hands.
This mendacious unionist barrage depends on this powerlessness, and on the sort of newspeak guff that allows the likes of Secretary Carmichael to call himself the Teacake of State for Scotland, sheltering behind a fog of caramel deceit.
If we did have a genuine democracy in this country the Unionist liars’ lies would have no traction because we’d all be aware of the baselessness of their claims. They just wouldn’t make any sense. I suspect that what they say will have little enough traction as it is with people who are prepared to think for themselves (and consult invaluable websites such as this) but there are far too many who prefer their democracy half-baked – either from laziness or calculation.
Political parties in a genuinely democratic UK would be as keen as the Rev Stu to tear the covers off the crap that BT generates, and show people that they’re on their side and want to deal straight. But of course they are not. And they do not. They can’t think out of the foetid wee box either.
IMO, the lack of clear Better Together branding is not only in keeping with the totally dishonest cynicism of the No campaign, it is also very telling. It indicates that HMG BT recognise their branding is dead. Perhaps this epiphany happened over two years ago, around the same time Vote No Borders was conceptualised? The MSM distributors will have deadlines for the submission of leaflets to be included with papers. This will, at least, give an indication as to when the design decisions were made in the production of the leaflet. I would be interested to find out who printed the leaflets. Were Scottish jobs supported in its production?
One silver lining to the indyref. I never thought we would get such a clear map of the networks surrounding the British establishment. 🙂
@Calgacus
love to join you, but i need to canvas in my pitch, encourage the people around me, each to their own,
@Hugh Wallace i need links for subjects not pro yes web sites
links to wings etc will be on all cards, but thanks for your input anyway hugh, lang may yer lum reek
@Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says: 5:54 pm
Well said, the establishment wants it the way it is, easier to fix the results and turn the electorate off.
SORRY, pressed send button too early previously.
An interesting analysis and I will check it out in relation to this leaflet. However, maybe those who support a YES result should have a closer look at the Scottish Government’s so called White Paper “Scotland’s Future” – where are the facts in this wish list! Methinks a wee bit of the jitters creeping in?
well done hamilton
hope jason scotland comes out for yes
championship
rangers
hearts
hibs
Schrodingers Cat
Close to the Howe of Fife; in St Andrews
O/T to the EU election if the Rev will let me.
Went to vote at the local school near Frankfurt this morning, when they asked me where I originally came from, all 7 officials came over and started chatting. Scotland, great place – go for it – we need people like you etc.
The poll closed at 18.00 and at 2 minutes past -18.02 – the results of the exit polls were read out on TV, massive coverage on all channels. Usually they are to within about 1% of the end result so that was that.
The top no. 1 candidate for the CDU (less radical version of the tories) was David McAllister the son of a scotsman in Germany and well known for his love of Scotland. This guy will be Germanys man in the EU.
This means when Scotland gets independence we would have a very strong partner with DM in the biggest market in the EU. Positive signs I’d say. 😉
Hood says:
Hi, good idea, well done and keep it up!
OT
In France they do not announce the % vote, at this stage before the full results but, the % abstention. In France 57%.
Focuses the mind a bit instead of the other way round?
The EU election results programmes are starting at 9pm, with most of the result in before midnight, approx.
You can take a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink. Labour hack Tom Gordon when he is contributing to the Sunday Herald still finds it impossible to avoid throwing in spoilers at the end of his pieces
To quote him “Norway has an oil fund worth £500 million but this was based on saving when the country has a budget surplus, something Scotland has only achieved in a single year since 1991.”
Waken up, Tom. It’s actually very simple.
Norway had a budget surplus because it had all its oil revenues.
Scotland does not have and never has had its oil revenues. For Scotland to achieve a budget surplus in 1991 (when UK has not achieved a budget surplus in more than half a century ) without its oil revenues was truly remarkable
how is vote counted up?
each region declares,then total vote added up?
France 3 are predicting 25% for FN, (Marine Le Pen) and UMP, (Sarkozy’s baby) at 20%.
Greens in France at about 9%
Re the shipbuilding Rev, you retweeted someone’s comment regarding the Type 26 contract.
Westmunster were saying no decision until after the Referendum but that’s gone quiet. Wonder why?
The job’s already started, that’s why!
BAE are on record saying they’ll build wherever they want.
Fact is, Scotstoun is the only yard with the capability.
Take it from someone who knows!
When you think about it, this “Establishment” must have been put together before 1707. Their plan was to buy off the Scots money men and gain access to the whole of Scotland.
Then keep the natives in poverty, create wars and then recruit the starving natives. That is probably why this Union has constantly been at war somewhere in the world since it was formed in 1707.
To this day, Cameron is still reminding Scots of all the wars we have fought together and how proud we should be.
He thinks it’s a soft spot that all Scots have for wars. That is why we are have the WW1 celebrations up here in August and the British Forces Day in Stirling in June.
But this is backfiring on him. Scots are fed up with wars, especially illegal wars. We now know Scots were nothing more than cannon fodder for these wars.
The “Establishment” need to be told where they can stick their wars.
@ Eezy
Nice find.
See you at the CH2 bash in Glasgow on Friday Night!
Bugger….?
Are you near Glasgow?
Their is a Wings social evening in the Counting House Pub in St Vincent Street on Friday night, next week.
It is open to all.
It is the second time it has been there thus CH2.
You would be very welcome along with anybody else from the Wings site or anyone undecided.
It is a social evening.
Lies are very unhelpful, very unChristian and will not work. Vote YES.
Just remember the sermons at the Mound. Thatcher/Osbourne. Two born liars.
Just to elaborate a little.
Angela Merkel’s CDU/SPD coalition runs Germany and she is very fond of David McAllister, he wasn’t her EU no. 1 candidate for nothing. DM therefore has the ear of Merkel regarding all things European.
At the moment she has to deal with Cameron’s tories and is not, despite Cams assurances, very happy having to deal with him. They are worlds apart on the EU and in general governance of a country.
The SNP/Alec Salmond are politically and economically much nearer to the German Gov. way of thinking than Cam and Farage.
Should Scotland vote YES, then a whole new ball game opens up. Germany being the largest EU member and very pragmatic in dealing with things European won’t let any Barrosso type of B***S**T get in the way of a new potentially strong partner in the EU. In particular when a certain Tinkerbelle (David McAllister) can whisper into Merkels ear. Germanys import/export potential with Scotland is quite large – think e.g. of energy, gas from Russia or oil/gas/renewables from a safe partner nearby!
The EU election has dealt a new card for Germany and Scotland with DM, it’ll be interseting to see how this developes.
Great pro YES front page on todays Sunday Herald.
1 only in my Duthie park shop, Aberdeen South.
Keeping YES in the news.
Maintain the momentum.
Rev, Another great article.
@ CameronB Brodie 5.59pm
If you enlarge the second slide and look at the bottom left of the Introduction page you can just make out the booklets were printed by Treehouse Print, 40 Peffer Place, Edinburgh, EH16 4BB. This is slightly abridged from the address on the leaflet on the BT website which has Unit 12 Castlebrae Business Centre as an additional line..
hood, captured, tx mate
Brian Powell says:
25 May, 2014 at 6:28 pmSchrodingers Cat
Close to the Howe of Fife; in St Andrews
tx brian, but st andrews already has a healthy yes camp, im trying to convince people in my own ward to become active and to organise
i sincerely hope we can help each other out and join forces, but the message i’m getting from wingers here is organise yourselves, no one should look for outside help. it is up to us as individuals, this is the only path to victory, this is not a snub, brian, it is a tactic, its time to take this personally
@Schiehallion! Schiehallion!
It’s appalling that a campaign to preserve the vaunted Union depends on ignorance and falsehood. What sort of better togetherism is that?
Same as it has always been, the self preservation of the establishment in London, which has contained generations of Scots on the make. It would be extremely ironic if the political Union was ended in the same manner as it began, with unbelievable amounts of deceit and lying from its advocates and supporters.
@Horseboy
I’m going to arrange to collect Aye Right flyers from Brian. Once I get them I’ll try and hook up with you in Aberdeen to pass some on.
Apologies for going OT but to remind or inform folks that reside in or near to the DG12 postcode area that on Thursday 29th May 2014 there will be an event held in the Annan Academy Hall at 1930hrs. In attendance will be Jim Sillars, Ash Regan-Denham from Women for Independence, Richard Arkless for Business for Scotland and Mark Frankland First Base Agency.
Event will be chaired by Patrick Rolink. Doors open from 7p.m.
o/t an interesting take on all those BT academics saying Scotland punches above its weight in crooss-border scientific funding.
link to slate.com?
O/T
anyone know what the outcome of the Newmilns polling station threat against “independence” people was? Heard it was reported to police but, (surprise, surprise) nothing in the MSM
Yes ‘Three Towns’ are having a session tomorrow evening in the Whitlees Community Centre, Ardrossan, from 7 – 9.
Speakers:
Gary O’Rourke (Pensions)
Jenn McClafferty (Women)
Aidan Paisley (Social Welfare)
Gary Parker (Jobs)
It’s billed as a question/discussion session rather than a debate. SSP will be handing out leaflets and selling the SSP Voice newspaper (outside).
If you can’t make that one there’s another session (same times, same speakers) in the Ardeer Community Centre, Stevenston, on Thursday.
Re Euro elections, I see a tweet saying there has been an average 40% turnout. That’s better than last time .
Oops I meant to add in Edinburgh
BBC Alba 1996 return of the Stone of Destiny, 8pm/8.30pm.
How come there are no exit polls being used to indicate possible result?
France and Germany are currently do it liv3, on the Tele.
doing it live
bloody predictive texting
knives out buy the libdems for clegg
i told you this 4 weeks ago
it is better for YES if he survives
holding my breath here
You know, the foreign press and media will descend on our towns and cities as the referendum gets closer. We must seek them out and take every opportunity to enlighten them as to what the Scottish people have been subjected to in the home of democracy.
We should tell them of how NO call themselves project fear and how a former PM tours our towns and villages scaring our old folk about their pensions. We must tell the world how Westminster threatens to destroy our economy by denying us our own currency. We must tell them of that great British institution the BBC, which funds the NO campaign and threatens respectable academics such as prof Robertson who finds them to be biased.
We should tell them of how Westminster’s media attack dogs seek to undermine our democratically elected FM and government using tactics last seen in the days of the British Empire in its dealings in the far east and Africa.
The UN enshrines the rights of peoples to self determination without being subjected to fear or threat, I believe.
The UK has a case to answer.
Lord Ashcroft EP Exit Poll: 1st UKIP 29%, 2nd Conservatives 24%, 3rd Labour 21%, 4th Lib Dems 8%. Conservatives beat Labour to 2nd.
Pity there is no Scotland breakdown. I would take the poll with a pinch of salt.
Marcia – it’s not a proper exit poll. I believe it was intended to assess (amongst other things) whether those who voted for UKIP would switch back (to Tories or Labour) at the GE, so they were asked (online) as soon as possible after their vote.
Crazycat – so not an actual exit poll. I expect a few non voters may have answered the questionnaire.
Thanks for the motivation, you lying pricks. I’m off work tomorrow and was going to chill out. Now, I’ll be leafleting.
O/T, but Hypocrisy of the BritNats (No. 48)…
Reading over on the Guardian that under pressure from Michael Gove, England’s main exam board have dropped long-standing novels (for GCSE English) ‘Of Mice & Men’ and ‘To Kill A Mockingbird. The kids have now to study ‘British’ authors such Austen and Dickens.
Uproar amongst academics & on Twitter. One calling it Gove’s ‘Union Jack of Culture’.
Could the Gove-inspired move be called ‘parochial’ or ‘narrow-nationalist’? But then, but then…..it’s British culture that jock Michael is promoting. So that’s alright then….
No no no…Yes
Thanks for that. I hadn’t actually wanted to pollute my mind by reading the BT literature and chose to trust the Rev. and other readers instead.
From the info, the company might to be brand new, apparently being registered last year. However, many printers are simply recycled continuations of previously bankrupted operations. Their services match those I used to offer, apart from the DM fulfillment and I think they are linked to a parent litho printer, so I appreciate their eagerness to get any work in. I know we used to have a competitor in the same industrial estate, but I wouldn’t like to comment on whether it is the same company.
Not sure if the fist link will work but click on the SC459174 link to open the company details page.
link to wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
link to wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
A question for our Wings EU experts.
You hear a lot of the “extreme right wing” becoming a real force in the European Parliament.
Does anyone know how this will affect how the EU Parliament is run? and how will it make any difference to the UK?
The Hootsman is saying that turnout in the Scottish Borders was 35.9% (up 5% from 2009) with Edinburgh at 41.6% (up 6.1%)
Marcia – Ashcroft seems to have interviewed 4,286 people who voted in the Euro elections, online on 22 and 23 May. There are results for “other” Euro voters, but nothing separate for the SNP for instance, so although he says that these voters were “in Great Britain”, there no scope from the information he’s released so far to draw any conclusions about Scotland at all, as far as I can see.
Scottish EU turnout is 34% according to Brian Taylor of the beeb. Should get Scottish result about 10pm, (Except Western Isles, Noon tomorrow).
Not very clear English, on my part. Click the second link above (if interested), to access a general spreadsheet which contains the SC459174 link, in the first column. Simples. 😉
@CameronB Brodie
The message I got.
Session has timed out, please log back in.
There has been a wee bit of twitching on here regarding spending Yes contributions to counter the constant stream of guff from BT.
Keep the faith chaps, it has been shown for a long time that Yes have their eyes firmly on the ball.
BT would love Yes to blow the cash before the official campaign starts, this pathetic leaflet screams “copy us” to me, knowing it is a waste of money.
Intensive focussed campaigning and informing will have a greater impact when the media(tv at least)will no longer be able to simply ignore the Yes group message with impunity.
The lies are already unravelling, despite blanket media support aiding the political duplicity.
Bottom line is, repeating guff over and over will never make it true. Do not believe me? Try this then.
The world media, famous actors including Brad Pitt etc, alongside every fashion/modelling house on earth, have all released a worldwide agreed statement that Johann Lamont is simply THE most incredibly sexy and sartorially elegant example of humanity the world has ever seen.
This statement is repeated every day endlessly for months and months, will the eventual outcome be…
1. Everyone being told the above will believe the above.
2. Everyone will still think she is a hackitt boot with the dress sense of wurzel gummage.
Moral ?
The truth shall prevail.
Wow, I’ve never seen that happen and was not expecting anything other than to link to Companies House info. I’m not really into ‘conspiracy theories’, so hope I haven’t caused a mini DDOS for HM Customs. 🙂
I have uploaded an ISO of the DVD I handed out to a few people (mentioned above), so if anyone wants it to burn to a DVD you can find it here.
link to dropbox.com
I also printed the cd, so if you have an epson printer that can print on a CD you can also get the file for it here (its basic but.. )
link to dropbox.com
From what I have heard Yes Scotland has already spent a lot of the campaign fund on advance purchase of advertising space at discounted rates now for use during the official campaign period when the spending limit applies. I think we can expect a pretty heavy duty campaign when it officially begins.
I had it (unofficially) from the one of horses’ mouths, that the official rebuttals are simply not getting the media coverage. We can’t expect or rely upon the establishment to reform itself, so it is up to us, the real grass roots.
link to newsnetscotland.com
@Hood, brilliant, well done, I will definitely be making some CD roms.
@ Graham Hughes: doesn’t that still count as campaign spending?
O/T BBC saying its looking like UKIP will a euro seat in Scotland.
Sorry, I wasn’t contradicting Graham Hughes. The decision making environment is not yet conducive to rational decision making based on a balanced appraisal of available information. Perhaps the official campaign rules will help address this serious failing, though I expect not much will change. If anything, I would hope the Yes campaign is imaginative. Then again, I know absolutely nothing about political campaigning.
Crikey! How nasty are these rotters going to get and all so unexpected?
Never mind, as long as we stay positive and nice and don’t give the No’s a hard time on questioning them on some of the downsides of the UK, we might still win????
Well said Mr Salmond,and an unexpected excellent comeback at the end there.
I’m really hoping the apparent thumping UKIP are handing out down South wakes up a few undecided Scots, who might just realise that voting to stay in the UK is looking increasingly likely to be a vote to withdraw from the EU, a position which traditionally hasn’t got much support here in Scotland.
Appears UKIP has won the 6th seat in Scotland, beating the Greens by almost 20,000 votes. LibDems 10,000 behind Greens.
I’m a Green, sickened by wall-to-wall Farage by UK media, BBC in particular. My concern for the Indy debate is that this proves MSM remains potent, especially for those disengaged, disenchanted voters who only listen to politics with half an ear.
Our Referendum is not a glib soundbite or a simplistic slogan. It asks something deep and profound of ourselves, and the blizzard of fearmongering, bias reporting and downright lies seeks to blind us, or deafen us, to that inner voice.
Not discouraged, but it’s clear we have our work cut out – canvassing, public meetings, personal contacts.
I’m for democracy – get me out of here!
@X_Sticks
Aye Right flyers
Good news.
I’m near Duthie Park.
Saw your HAT last Saturday at Markies YES stall.
Can be at Markies or city centre anytime.
Let me know when, if.
cheeri
I noticed something else about the “cost of independence” section where they have the mock receipt for the weeks shop in comparison to Ireland. They claim that a weeks shopping is roughly £4 higher in Ireland than in the UK, making it an average of £208 extra a year by their claim. I read this far and handed the flyer back to the gentleman who posted it. We can all twist statistics, for example, the average and minimum wage in Ireland is higher than in the UK. The average yearly salary in Ireland is €35,767.68 or £28947.39. In the UK the average yearly salary is £26,500 which equates to €32760.09. This means the average salary in Ireland is €3007.59 higher than the UK, or between £2434.09 to £2447.39. Someone earning the average salary in Ireland still has roughly an extra £2226.09 to £2239.39 in comparison to someone on the average salary of that in the UK after doing that weekly shop for a year. So that £208 extra looks quite meager when you consider that they will still have over £2000 pounds left over after shopping in the “more expensive” independent nation. Easy to manipulate figures isn’t it?
Mary Bruce says:
25 May, 2014 at 10:33 pm
“@Hood, brilliant, well done, I will definitely be making some CD roms.”
Thanks Mary, have had a few reports today that people cant play on their TV via DVD players and also seems some don’t work on Windows Media Player.
I am going to try and find a file format that will work on all and redo the DVD, so maybe best to wait a while before you burn any DVDs.
Just look how the media’s negative campaigning backfired when it slandered UKIP. Hopefully, the same will happen to the ‘Yes’ camp in that the ‘Yes’ vote will increase.
I’m shocked that UKIP got a seat in Scotland though. I assume the voters were the ‘No’ camp.
Well, the purple Elephant in the room is that the propaganda was financed by the notorious £500,000 donation from a foreign oil company which turned out to be stolen “Blood Oil” cash, sent from the secret Hong Kong offshore account of an African Dictator. I thought it was illegal under Scots Law to receive stolen cash?.. What the hell are Police Scotland doing about this? (Nothing, of course).
the one thing in this vote is the selfish nature of the world everyone is out for there own interests i however am not i understand that my legacy will live on whether i have a family or not but i will live through poverty famine and disease to ensure that my younger siblings will have the best future ahead of them and that will have been made possible by forward thinking peoples and not the peoples of a selfish self interested media fuelled country in which we live today>
[…] themselves, there is zero justification for Better Together’s “don’t risk your pensions” propaganda. Yet once again, Better Together falsely presented the question of […]