Stormy weather
In our poll results earlier today, we found out what Scots thought about the past and the present. But we also asked them to look ahead at the sort of Scotland (and UK) they see developing over the space of the next decade.
Here’s what they thought.
Everyone, we suspect, is getting pretty tired of the currency debate. “Better Together” and the three Unionist parties are still insisting that the rUK would refuse to share the pound with an independent Scotland, no matter how many experts (or anonymous UK government ministers) say that in reality a currency union will happen, and if it doesn’t then so-called “sterlingisation” is a viable – or even preferable – Plan B.
We wanted to find out who Scots believed without asking a loaded question that personalised the debate in the form of George Osborne or Alex Salmond or anyone else, so we tried to detach it from the current political situation and instead simply ask, looking over the heads of here-today-gone-tomorrow leaders, what currency people thought an independent Scotland would actually use.
————————————————————————————————–
The “Better Together” anti-independence campaign says that a Yes vote will mean Scotland “walking away from the pound”, as all three main UK parties have committed to refusing a currency union.
The pro-independence Scottish Government says that the rest of the UK would in reality agree to a formal currency union, but also notes that Sterling is a fully-tradeable world currency so an independent Scotland would be able to keep the pound even without the UK’s permission.
Regardless of your own preference, if Scotland were to vote for independence, what currency do you THINK it would use as an independent country?
The pound: 57%
A new Scottish currency: 19%
The Euro: 8%
Don’t know: 16%
————————————————————————————————–
A pretty resounding result, we’d say. Just 27% of Scots think an independent Scotland would use a currency other than Sterling, and that’s a view that crosses party boundaries. 53% of Labour supporters said the pound, along with 46% of Tories, 41% of Lib Dems and 70% of SNP voters.
In all but the Lib Dems’ case, that was more than a 2:1 margin over those who said anything else. Weirdly, Willie Rennie’s remaining faithful were almost evenly split between the pound and a new Scottish currency, at 41 to 37.
Even among No voters, 41% said an independent Scotland would keep the pound – almost twice the 22% predicting a new currency, nearly three times the 14% saying the Euro and well above the 23% who didn’t know. And of the undecideds, a crushing 70% think Sterling will be the new nation’s money – almost as high as the 72% figure among Yes voters.
In short: nobody’s buying the Unionist line on this. We suspect that if they keep battering at it, they’ll achieve nothing but even more damage to their own credibility.
————————————————————————————————–
Which of the following things do you think are LIKELY to happen in the next 10 years?
Scotland will become an independent country
Yes: 35%
No: 37%
Don’t know: 28%
Curiously, very little difference between men (37Y 38N) and women (33Y 36N).
The UK will hold a referendum on EU membership
Yes: 69%
No: 11%
Don’t know: 20%
We deliberately made the question cover 10 years so that it wouldn’t just be a matter of predicting who’d win the 2015 general election. Nevertheless, a huge majority of Scots think an EU referendum is coming soon.
The UK will vote to leave the EU
Yes: 31%
No: 38%
Don’t know: 32%
They’re a lot less sure about the outcome, though.
The NHS in England will become largely privatised
Yes: 48%
No: 23%
Don’t know: 29%
Those planning to vote for independence answered Yes here by more than four-to-one, whereas No voters were much more optimistic/deluded (delete according to preference) about the future of healthcare south of the border, with 39% agreeing and 33% disagreeing with the proposition.
The NHS in Scotland will become largely privatised
Yes: 18%
No: 52%
Don’t know: 30%
A similar breakdown except in reverse, with independence supporters confident by five-to-one that Scotland’s NHS was safe in the Scottish Government’s hands, while the margin among Unionists was only two-to-one. 24% of No voters feared a privatised Scottish NHS, with less than half – 49% – feeling it was secure.
Boris Johnson will become UK Prime Minister
Yes: 12%
No: 63%
Don’t know: 25%
Men were twice as likely as women to believe this.
There will be a Labour First Minister of Scotland
Yes: 40%
No: 22%
Don’t know: 38%
Our time period will span THREE Scottish elections in which only two parties have a forseeable prospect of providing the FM, but even at those odds only four out of ten Scots were prepared to predict Labour winning one.
Labour voters were the only ones to give the party a better-than-evens chance, with 58% saying Yes and just 9% saying No. (SNP supporters, perhaps interestingly, divided into three almost exactly equal groups.)
Students in Scotland will have to pay towards university tuition
Yes: 38%
No: 35%
Don’t know: 27%
Unionist voters overwhelming SNP supporters here. Those identifying with the three UK parties all predicted a return of some form of fees by large margins.
UKIP will have more seats at Westminster than the Liberal Democrats
Yes: 43%
No: 28%
Don’t know: 29%
Considering the current score is Lib Dems 57 UKIP 0, that’s quite a prediction. Even 31% of Lib Dem voters agreed with it, though (against 55% who said No), and supporters of the other three parties all thought it more likely to happen than not.
The Scottish Parliament will be given control of taxation and welfare
Yes: 55%
No: 18%
Don’t know: 26%
At first glance this seems perhaps the most surprising stat in the entire poll. Previously Scottish voters have been extremely sceptical of the promises of substantial extra devolution, and none of the UK parties have even hinted at any significant devolution of welfare.
Of course, the result could be explained by the fact that independence would provide said control, which would explain the 69% of SNP supporters who said Yes (along with 73% of Lib Dems, 53% of Tories and 51% of Labour voters). This is what happens when we do quick snap polls instead of taking our time to make sure there’s no ambiguity in the questions.
Your standard of living will significantly increase
Yes: 20%
No: 51%
Don’t know: 29%
Everyone’s battening down the hatches for a grim decade of austerity. SNP voters were the most optimistic (still just 26% Yes against 49% No), presumably because of the aforementioned belief in a better independent Scotland, with Labour’s the gloomiest (15 to 57).
The UK’s armed forces will be sent to fight in another foreign war
Yes: 59%
No: 12%
Don’t know: 29%
A nice depressing note to end on.
————————————————————————————————–
So that’s the next ten years through the eyes of Scots. Lots of UKIP MPs, no improvement to the standard of living and a privatised NHS in England. The only people who are noticeably optimistic about anything are those who think Scotland will be independent by then. Whichever side of the debate they’re on, the Scottish people don’t much fancy the future of the UK, with or without an “r” in front of it.
Bloody hell, get the Leonard Cohen out and pass me the razor blades. Sod it, think I’ll remain on the optimistic side of things
Oh God, I’m depressed.
Coldplay have a new album out.
Neil Young could put it to music.
Seems to me the more we tell the voters that vote No means Get Nothing, the more chance we get Yes to come out on top.
Keep up the pressure.
Nice to see those who contemplate Independence have a more optimistic view.
Those who see a continuing Union have a pessimistic view for the future. Perhaps all they have to do to lift the much of the depression is decide to vote Yes!
Time to go listen to some Bob Marley his freedom songs always uplift me 😉
Further thought. Perhaps health professionals should hand out Yes literature instead of anti-depressants.
OT,
With only 20 days to go, Im not optimistic that this worthy project will meet the target of £8000.
Wingers, please give it your consideration.
link to indiegogo.com
On a more serious note, we’ve been getting all discombobulated about polls recently. A very non-political FB friend sent me a link to a presentation of an Ipsos/MORI survey which contrasts UK-wide public perception of several issues (benefit fraud, immigration, crime, etc.) compared to actual official statistics.
The link is: link to buzzfeed.com
If it’s accurate then the power of the Daily Mail et al to instil their relentless lies and fearmongering is pretty staggering. And Scots are not immune to this, as we well know.
Fortunately, we have an alternative – let’s get the fuck out of it.
My mum got this poll through Panelbase. She was somewhat confused by the last set of questions there, wondering whether she should answer with them based on her answer to “Scotland will become an independent country” or as things are now.
I assumed that it would be based on her answer (and that’s how she eventually answered them) but it was perhaps a bit ambiguous & confusing for some people. Especially as one of the questions says “First Minister”, where if Scotland were independent it’d be “Prime Minister”.
As Rangers were mentioned in this poll, not really OT.
Did my ears deceive me, or did I just hear the news presenter say that the Scottish League has been paying BT Sport to show Rangers matches on the telly? Isn’t that arse for elbow?
Scotland will become an independent country
Yes: 35%
No: 37%
Don’t know: 28%
I’ll take a stab here and suggest that Yes = Yes voters and No = No voters largely.
And I don’t think it’s so curious that men and women are of largely the same opinion. In the end, in all probability, they will vote in largely the same way in September. That’s what happened in 2011 in the end; just took women a bit longer to start admitting to pollsters they planned to vote SNP.
BetterTogetherists say move to London for the good ukok life. London houses prices have already gone up by £80k this year so far. So its not all bad news for teamGB and its all down to Westminster, who always know what they’re doing.
Just a bit O/T.
Scottish Institute of Chartered Accountants arent happy with John Swinneys Tax Reforms/ see Scottish Revenue Tax
reforms. Scottish Parliament debate today, Stage 1 Primary tax avoidance legislation. Very little wriggle room to avoid paying tax in a Indy Scotland. Well done SG.
Re tuition fees : there are no fees under this Scottish Govt. The Tories want fees, Clegg has lost all credibility by supporting them & Scot Labour talk of ‘something for nothing’ (Johann).
We can grotesquely spend £100 billion+ on Trident nuclear weapons, but we cannot afford to give our children an education free of thousands of pounds of debt? What is even more galling is that the proponents of tuition fees benefited from paying no fees themselves.
Any current student or someone hoping to go to uni/college, & thinking about voting No, needs to have their head examined.
So the Unionist parties all think that tuition fees are a good thig then really. The question may not have said that but their answers certainly infer it.
Unionist = elitism.
Quelle surprise!
I’m worried that a few of those who think Scotland will be independent within ten years, despite voting No (or abstaining) just now, are under the misapprehension that we’ll get another shot at this.
It has to be made crystal clear that this referendum will be the only one we get in our lifetime, even if we vote in SNP governments for the next 25 years.
With the likelihood of no LibDem MEPs after Thursday will focus some swithering voters.
Another poll Rev.
And notice the YES = optimistic No = pessimistic .
Ok. if the NO voters see the next ten years of crap why the hell do they not at least TRY and do something about it? Vote YES for change and No for more of the same . Why???? would you want to live a life of little hope ? Are we Scots so bloody dour that we can’t at least try for a better future ? For the sake of our kids and their kids.
It pains me to say that we deserve nothing but contempt for allowing this to go on and on and on.
I,m a 50 year old former soldier , disabled now and seeing the country i love , the country i swore an oath to protect , so divided it shames me. Never in the history of the world has a country fought AGAINST independence . To turn against each other and submit to a another country who serve their own first whilst claiming to be an equal .
If the No vote wins on sept 18th . I will never be able to believe in Scotland again. The thought of my children or their children having to fight for independence when we have the opportunity now and fail shames me so much , i feel ill by it all.
I will never forgive my countrymen/women for failing to take this chance. Even with the mountains of evidence in favor of indi , the lies, scares, smears and threats , which should have been the catalyst to bring us closer together. instead it has divided us .
And the worst of these in every way is pro union Scots. Who fight the fight for Westminster against their own. I have a few words i could use but i’ll leave that to your imagination.
And no bloody church or any amount of prayer will help. I will be disgusted. (strong i know but it’s the truth)
I can fight for this one chance, but afterwards, it will be the next generations task , if they ever get the chance again.
Can I just say that I don’t find Cohen or Young depressing
:/
“Any current student or someone hoping to go to uni/college, & thinking about voting No, needs to have their head examined.”
Thing is, school fees at Scottish private schools start at about £25k per year so the £9,000 a year uni fees don’t mean much to a lot of wealthy Scotland. Maybe its time for means testing. If you can afford private school you can afford private university and private schools should be stripped of their tax free charity status.
All of which explains why Scottish private schools are not so keen on any change at all anywhere:D
Neil Young can be very uplifting at times, HaS. 😉
@YESGUY
Well said, my sentiments exactly – I’d like to shake your hand.
Going to sleep until my name changes to Rip-Van-Camz. Wake me up when it’s all over.
The Smiths. The Smiths are best. Music to slit your wrists to.
HandandShrimp says:
Can I just say that I don’t find Cohen or Young depressing
They can do quite a lot for that these days.
🙂
@heedtracker
Only about 1 in 20 children in Scotland attend private schools (Scotsman, 25/9/13).
I’m more interested in the other 95% who don’t.
@ronnie anderson 6:24
are you saying that in an indy Ecosse we wouldn’t need accountants?
That’ll save me a few bob every year 🙂
Yesguy,
Well said, I agree with every word. The only other thing I’d add is how ashamed those who don’t even care about it either way make me.
So many people just aren’t interested and can’t even be bothered to do any research or inform themselves of the facts. That’s despicable in my view.
@Dick Gaughan 7:35
you haven’t been playing with your lithium dose again have you Dick? :-/
Only about 1 in 20 children in Scotland attend private schools (Scotsman, 25/9/13).
Sure but how many private school pupils go to uni in comparison to state school pupils, is the point here.
Thing is, school fees at Scottish private schools start at about £25k per year so the £9,000 a year uni fees don’t mean much to a lot of wealthy Scotland.
True, but then those that pay the most tax (those that earn more) are paying for other people’s kids to go to uni. Nice to thank them by letting their kids go to uni for free too.
If this doesn’t happen, they’ll be paying for their own kids and other people’s kids to go to uni and this will likely make them feel cheesed off so want to vote Tory / pay less tax. In fact means testing is specifically designed to destroy the welfare state / society by pissing off people who earn more. It’s why Labour (right) think it’s a good idea and the SNP (centre to slightly left) don’t.
As far as I’m concerned, those earning quite a lot should get all the universal benefits everyone else does. It’s the least society can do as thanks for the tax they pay.
They really DO want Trident!
http://www.eezysqeezylemonsqeezy.com
Ah Neil Young, Glasgow Apollo 197…… Well a while back!
Bet he would vote yes!
@ scottish_skier, the point is that the threat of £9k tuition fees may not carry as much weight as logic dictates considering the current dis/proportion of private school students in uni.
Plus if your doing a good engineering degree, medicine or dentistry say, you’re getting a bargain at £9k and school pupils know that.
Dick
I dunno, Leonard makes me smile…I haven’t sought help…yet.
Scottish Skier
Yes, I never really understood Johann’s “something for nothing” nonsense. Clearly those paying the most tax are the very ones she is accusing of getting something for nothing. Where does she draw the line with her means testing? State schools?, A heart operation? Driving on the roads? It was a bloody silly speech and I am not surprised Labour have drawn a veil over it. The Tories and Tax Payers Alliance use exactly the same expression but of course they are talking about the poor who pay less taxes (we all pay at least some because of VAT) obtaining a net benefit from the system. To stray into that language was political lunacy.
‘As far as I’m concerned, those earning quite a lot should get all the universal benefits everyone else does. It’s the least society can do as thanks for the tax they pay’.
As long as they’re paying their whack I wouldn’t disagree with you.
The charitable status of public school education needs removed though. The children of the rich going to these schools have an unfair advantage over kids going to a comprehensive
@Jim Thomson 7.44 Naw Jim its just that their creative tax avoidance scheme,s are ffukered. lol
Meindevon says:
Ah Neil Young, Glasgow Apollo 197…… Well a while back!
Bet he would vote yes!
1976 🙂
You got the rest of the union
to help you along
What’s going wrong?
Alabama, not Scotland!
heedtracker:-
Just over 20% of students at the ‘ancient’ universities (Glasgow, E’burgh, St Andrews, Aberdeen) are private school-educated. For the remaining universities it’s under 10%.
The real point is that when you start to “means test”, it invariably means a contribution from those whose parents are on very modest incomes. Just look south of the border for the reality of fees : around £27K debt for a 3-year degree course. In Scotland, an honours degree is 4 years. And remember, students also separately have to take out student loans to pay for maintenance.
Just been checking out Bella Caledonia.
Article entitled “The Pessimist’s Crystal Ball” contains a comment which includes footage of Duncan Hamilton debating (i think at Glasgow Unjversity)
It’s worth a look. Cheered me up.
Apologies for lack of fancy ‘linky’ stuff you all seem to be able to manage
I do worry about my fellow Scots. What nation (region!) would have any doubt about the opportunity on offer.
I’m sure a researcher could explain how we have been conditioned to accept our lot and be grateful for the crumbs from the table. (Stockholm syndrome)
I’ve had enough. I want a YES vote and if we do not get a majority I’ll be arguing on the 19th. for a referendum. The problem being it will be several times harder to get one.
Will we be stupid enough to provide Westminster MP’s with the gift phrase – ” …the Scottish people rejected seperation, the matter is settled!”
I get the impression nowhere in the EU has fees like England, for its own citizens.
link to studyineurope.eu
Scottish Universities do charge English level fees to non-EU students.
A vision of the (near) future.
link to bbc.co.uk
How many of those faces are MI5 plants, or are they savvy enough to keep out of shot ?
This polling data is mightily encouraging. Now to educate a large proportion of the nation in time…
“I’ll take a stab here and suggest that Yes = Yes voters and No = No voters largely.”
Largely, yeah. 80% of Yes voters said Yes, 72% of No voters said No, most of the others Don’t Know.
Polls polls…Kirsty, some people are in a state of apathy, not just some but over 60% of us when it comes to politics. Some local elections attract just 20% of voters. The reason being that life is such a daily grind making ends meet and fighting to stay afloat, the words of politicians of all parties are just a pain in the arse to those who do not vote. The fine words and promises made in TV studios are quickly dispensed with as soon as the Politicos fat arses are once more polishing the benches and the flow of tax payers cash gushes like a torrent in to their accounts.
It is to be hoped that the Yes campaign will manage to inspire sufficient numbers of independent minded Scottish voters to turn out on the day and tick the Yes box. At the moment the trend looks good.
I remember after the 2007 election that shook the UK as the SNP squeezed in to power, Alex Salmond said that they knew after 6pm that it was going to be good for the SNP, as the workers voted on the way home or got home and went out to vote. It is these people who will carry the day for Yes.And it is the same people who will build Scotland in to the powerhouse we all know it can be.
“Especially as one of the questions says “First Minister”, where if Scotland were independent it’d be “Prime Minister”.”
Says who?
Pretty clear pattern.
What are we waiting for? Vote yes avoid years of therapy. 😉
YESGUY and Geoff. I’m right with you. Word for word.
Also; regarding the issue of fees. Is it only in the Anglophone world that a good education is considered a privilege rather than a right? It seems that the civilised nations of the world largely agree to differ and view it as an investment in their own future. Doesn’t it speak volumes about the Atlanticist view of the world?
Well then, I’m off to buy shares in War Mongering Bastsards dot con, then I’ll mibby get a mention on a rich list.
@ Democracy Reborn, your ignoring or leaving out the effects of deprivation on levels of uni entrance Highers in Scotland, which are horrendous. Its a huge problem and its got huge solutions and one of them is the fact that inequality can be tackled through taxation, or it cant. Maybe we’ll find out one day.
Why do No voters think the NHS in Scotland is safe in the event of a No vote? Do they seriously think that our block grant is not going to be severely reduced if we vote No? Is this a denial thing or what?
Had wee rant there and have to admit feeling a little “frail” to day and popped over to Bella for a wee peek and saw a video of Duncan Hamilton at Glasgow Uni. Now there is a lad with a bit of fight in him . Please have a wee look in if you haven;t seen this before. He gives words to my feelings exactly . and i felt a whole lot better after watching . 8mins and my smiles back on.
Sorry if the rant was over the top but looking at the comments over the last few days has been frustrating as hell . Now theres a fact YES voters are easily the most frustrated .
Its going to be a long few months thats for sure but i am not alone
Scotland to become independent in the next 10 years?
35% Yes, 37% No, 28% DK.
I guess you’d have got identical responses to “the next 2 years”. Looks like a fairly close correlation to present voting intentions this September, including with that (crucial) mass of Don’t Knows.
The point is we will never have a better moment to make our choice how and when WE want. An unreformed UK will be pretty much ruined beyond repair in another 10 years (with lack of investment, another banking bailout, even greater inequality) and will take us down with it. People may then clamour for another referendum, but we will be in a far weaker position economically and politically, not least because we’d be outside the EU with less oil reserves to invest in our future.
A Free Scotland will precipitate a political earthquake in the rUK. Really, the only way we can genuinely help ordinary people there is to create that opportunity by taking OUR opportunity now – for their sakes as much as our own.
muttley79 says:
Do they seriously think that our block grant is not going to be severely reduced if we vote No?
The consequencies of a No vote should scare everyone.
Potential No voters need this made clear to them!
Yes Guy
Daily rant is compulsory in my house. Wife putting up with it well so far.
Duncan Hamilton – very impressive
O/T
I have a couple of spare tickets for the Five Million Questions In Conversation with Alistair Darling at Dundee University on Thursday 22nd at 6pm if anyone wants them.
heedtracker @ 8.38pm
Entirely agree with you. But that’s a different issue from paying fees once you’re at uni : you’re talking about tackling deprivation for kids from poor/modest backgrounds in order that they can improve their qualifications & get into uni. Those kids, & their parents, have enough to overcome without the prospect of £30K debt at the end of a degree course.
Like others on here, I don’t subscribe to the Anglo-American notion that a higher education is something you should have to pay for. It’s an investment in the skills & wealth of your nation’s future. And if that means a minority of children with ‘wealthy’ parents get a free education, I don’t have a problem with it if it means the vast majority benefit.
There are many No voters happy to remain in the Union but preferring good governance in Scotland by an SNP government despite having very limited powers.
I think the SNP should drop a bomb shell in June and say that in the event of a No vote, the SNP will not contest any elections for a generation.
That will put the fear of god into those complacent no voters or non-voters.
That looks like the lyrics to a folk song in the making. Needs only a smattering of deid fishermen for authenticity. Cheer yourself up with some Vote Nob Orders spoofs. Logic’s Rock: Wag The Nob.
link to logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk
@YESGUY
If that was a rant then rant on my friend. I think you summed up the feelings of many of us quite succinctly.
We should not allow our frustration to get the better of us. It will get worse as the time gets nearer and we get closer to the prize.
When it gets too much to bear, just think how much worse it is for those on the No side. They are confronted by a growing tsunami that THEY KNOW is going to sweep them away. They will shriek and squeal and lie aver more shrilly right up until September.
Stay calm and smile and laugh at them. It really fucks with their heads.
Graeme – thanks for the heads up on the Bella article:
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
The Duncan Hamilton vid is in the comments courtesy of Alba4eva 😀
“I think the SNP should drop a bomb shell in June and say that in the event of a No vote, the SNP will not contest any elections for a generation.”
wow, i was thinking similar the other night except i was thinking salmond and sturgeon stating they will step down from politics if a no vote. your idea of the whole snp party stepping down is better. i think its a winner.
Hang on darlings I’m selling independence on the idea that with a Yes vote the SNP will cease to be!!!
As reality slowly dawns for the MSM….
When did you start to sense that the issue of Englishness was starting to return to the agenda?
“I think it might go back to Scotland playing England in the 1996 European Championships. You can buy St George’s Day cards now; you couldn’t do that 20 years ago.”
“And I do think Scottish and Welsh devolution have played a part. It’s like looking over the garden fence, isn’t it? Your neighbour builds a patio, and you see them sitting out on it, having drinks, and you think, ‘Oh – they’re getting a benefit from that. Maybe I should have a patio.’ And that’s what we’re seeing from devolution.” Billy Bragg
link to theguardian.com
Is patriotism the same thing as nationalistic pride & ambition?
link to theguardian.com
Or only contest council ones as Westminster is planning to make Holyrood a talking shop.
O/T
Has anybody read this.
link to theguardian.com
What the hell is progressive about watching the Tory/UKIP nexus dragging the UK to the right. I really take umbrage at Alexander over this. He is in effect saying that if you vote Yes you are a Nazi. Intellectually dishonest pro George Bush sod that he is.
Aye! Dougie speaking for a NO at the Church of Scotland assembly today.
link to bbc.co.uk
“Hang on darlings I’m selling independence on the idea that with a Yes vote the SNP will cease to be!!!”
the thought of the snp not there to stand up for scotland, leaving it to lamont is a fearful prospect alright.
Findlay darling (a) we have a green party (b) we will have lots of other parties (c) I want to live in a country that stops putting ‘Scottish’ in front of stuff – there will be NO NEED – where is the French this that and the other?
I think that a few lowish blows are needed.
If wossers and yesers were to ask Darling & co. about their voting record on suchlike as Iraq at public meetings, then it wouldn’t half land blows. The earlier the better. What DID cabinet members know about renditions ?
And the point being, that a Holyrood government wouldn’t lead us into committing warcrimes, and murder (not always by proxy). In OUR fecking name.
link to britisharmykillings.org.uk
Watching Flipper explode in an rage, would make my referendum. (After a Yes landslide obvs)
Come on people, let’s show some of that legendary Wings generosity for Scottish Independence Live Events.
Our very own Thistle is looking to raise funds for better live streams, finance more indy videos, more promotional materials and general running costs.
Independence Live has given us all the excellent broadcasts with Tariq Ali, Elaine c Smith Jim Sillars, Jeanne Freeman, Tommy Sheridan, Dennis Canavan, Ivan McKee, Lesley Riddoch, AND they have broadcast from the FRIENDS OF WINGS events to allow us all to join in even if we can’t be there. link to new.livestream.com What more could you want?
Let’s dig deep and get them over the line. If we can do 50k in a day we can surely do this in a couple of hours!
link to tinyurl.com
In our country we will be at home – Scottish whatever will be a thing of the past, our labour party, idiot party whatever – we will be at home.
If the No vote wins on sept 18th I will never be able to believe in Scotland again. The thought of my children or their children having to fight for independence when we have the opportunity now and fail shames me so much I feel ill by it all.
I have heard similar sentiment expressed by others.
A decisive No vote will crush the soul.
Come on folks, let’s show some support for Thistle here, we can surely do better than this?
link to indiegogo.com
“where is the French this that and the other?”
bread, toast, kissing, connection, lessons, and saunders.
Grouse Beater honey – we are going to win this laddie now buck up and smell the coffee.
Craig
Yup I have had that argument from Naysayers, cant seem to get through to them that its not going to be the status quo if we vote no.
Don’t think its an option for the SNP to stand down en masse post a no vote. But to be honest I would like to see it. Because if we are stupid enough to Vote no we deserve all we get.
BT now using scatter gun approach.
Just went on You Tube and was accosted by their pish in an advert.
Someone could have warned me.
Findlay dear – my point is that in our country we will not need to use “scottish” before anything, because that will be a given.
Ah, X_Sticks, beat me to it, good man. 🙂
@Democracy Reborn 6:26pm
What is even more galling is that the proponents of tuition fees benefited from paying no fees themselves.
Most of the proponents of tuition fees would have had a grant and probably never had a student load. I first went to uni 21 years & had one of the last grants and first student loans and most politicians are older than me.
link to arewebettertogetherscotland.wordpress.com
Gosh Graeme – did you have an umbrella?
aken, i was being lighthearted.
This is a brilliant article for a leaflet.
link to newsnetscotland.com
Stuart Black says:
“beat me to it”
Only just Stuart 😉
Grouse Beater honey
I’m the guy consistently (since late last year) predicting a win by 63% of the vcoting electorate.
My last post doesn’t say anything more than I’ve heard others express understandable dismay should the vote be lost by a mile or a whisker – and let’s not forget, they are people voting Yes. To my mind any thought of a near win is a spur to greater effort. Neverthless, we should feel empathy for the elderly who have waiting – or fought – almost all their life for this moment. Their anxiety is very natural.
@ Grouse Beater – ssh don’t frighten the gee-gees xx
Rev Stu just tweeting 1.5million unique viewers mark hit last week – SO CAN YOU ALL DONATE TO Scottish Independence Live Events now and we’ll be done in about 20 minutes!!
link to tinyurl.com
ssh don’t frighten the gee-gees
Scottish Clydesdales are not know for spooking easily.
@Findlay Farquaharson – letters!
I love a big shire.
Paula Rose
No i did not. Thanks for your concern.
Developing a tough skin wi all this though
Defeat is unthinkable
Stop using language used by the rulers – talk about opportunity, future, talent – let us reclaim the languages we speak in Scotland and share them with each other.
Grame – Stop using language used by the rulers
Eh?
Check if you’re wearing two left shoes, “Paula.” You keep tripping over your own posts.
@ Graeme
Daily rant is compulsory in my house. Wife putting up with it well so far.
Chuckle. I know what you mean!
But we have to keep our political muscles well exercised.
Syntax dear.
@Paula
If they start to tax sin I’m screwed!
X whips xxx : – )
Just back from SSP branch meeting in Irvine, and heard some really worrying news about an Orange parade which went down the Main Street last Saturday.
It seems to have been a substantial, but unexpected parade, and each band paused directly outside the ‘Yes Scotland’ shop for a minute or more, giving it laldy with the drums etc. The regular SSP stall planned for the day was abandoned.
I don’t have any images, only first-hand testimony.
Anyone else hear anything about this?
Sorry slightly it but out canvassing tonight for euro election but also asking the Indy question got quite a few no’s but by god are they soft , the glue holding no Scotland , the media. , and btw SNP will have three meps
Syntax dear
It’s pitch perfect.
“Syntax dear” doesn’t constitute a grammatical sentence with or without the missing comma.
@Ian
Orange Parade in Main Street, Irvine.
Was it a spontaneous event, without official approval? Making a loud noise outside the Yes office is seriously petty to me, a tactic bound to alienate.
@Sonja Cameron
The Smiths are fabulous!
‘Please, please, please ….let me get what I want this time …’ :-))
Grouse Beater – just pitching stuff – the light programme that intersperses you big boys.
@Ian
I’m beginning to think both Orange Lodge and Ukip annoying spoilers. Can’t think why any Scottish-based “churnalist” would feel obliged to interview a Ukip candidate in until they win a seat in Scotland.
Grouse Beater says:
“a tactic bound to alienate.”
A tactic meant to intimidate, more like.
@Grouse Beater –
It seems there was no-one lining the street, applauding them, as would be expected for anything ‘official’.
I really don’t know much more, but the person who told me is a local business owner, long-time resident, and has never seen anything like it, seemed genuinely worried.
(If the local press covered it then I suppose it would be the Irvine Herald, but not sure which day that’s published.)
@Ian Brotherhood – not my neck of the woods but I suggest when any of this happens we take out our phones and collect videos ( discreetly if required )then post on youtube to let everyone one know what happening out there
@X_Sticks
A tactic meant to intimidate, more like.
Yes, agreed; that too. I was thinking in terms of those observing the incident, or those like me reading about it.
we’ve still got a long way to go – so be prepared for the worst case scenario as it heads our way…….then smile
O/T
A new low for ‘Scotland’ Tonight. George Lyon is a man who has somehow been elected to office.
Utterly inane drivel all round though.
Ian
I really don’t know much more, but the person who told me is a local business owner, long-time resident, and has never seen anything like it, seemed genuinely worried.
Hmmm. I can’t think what the OL hopes to achieve?
In my time in NI I think I failed to convince people like that that England had absolutely no interest in them.
I kept asking them what they were fighting for when it ought to be clear dear old Blighty didn’t give a fig. I never got a reasonable answer. It was all febrile rhetoric.
@ Lynn Blair re. the Smiths. For the ‘I’m alright No’s’, it has to be..
“Why pamper life’s complexity, When the leather runs smooth on the passenger’s seat?”
Charming men ? More like snake oil salesmen !
On the topic of tuition fees, I can hardly contain myself when I hear people condoning them when they have enjoyed totally free higher education and reaped the benefits of not having massive debts as a result. And the tories have already sold on some student loans to debt companies (who are adding interest to that debt) and are set to do so with student fees at some point make no bones. With an added student loan this means someone leaving uni with at least 33k debt in England.
With low or no wages it is not good, they are being had and it will happen here with a no because 4billion reduction in our pocket money will not pay for free uni places.
As for private education, rich establishments for the rich with charitable status, even lottery funded facilities and state of the art buildings, low class numbers, and a ready ticket to a uni place and well paid job at the end, it couldn’t be more unequal if we just declared that slavery is legal.co.uk. Totally and utterly sickening.
Was this it Ian? link to bandparades.co.uk
i’m with Steve Bowers on this one…………..pass the SOMA please!.
dougie Alexander opens up with . “friends” from the pulpit
reminds me of FOX NEWS and FRIENDS
@Defo
Apologies. I can’t help it. I’ve got a thing for whining and gladioli….;)
Lynn Blair says:
“I’ve got a thing for whining and gladioli”
Have you met Paula Rose, yet Lynn? 😉
Does she have a quiff too????
Re Orange Lodge
There was also a small march I saw while in Glasgow on Saturday for the cup final coming down Candleriggs towards the Trongate about 13:00.
The police were with them maybe around 500, walking back with the missus from Parkhead through Bridgeton after the game, the bands were giving it laldy in a couple of bars.
heedtracker
I watched that video. I’ve never actually seen one of these things before….I think I will stick with Cohen and Young. It isn’t exactly music is it? more a fancy dress parade…although the accordion band looked fun, if a tad out of place.
hopefully stormy weather ahead for bbc scotland
link to newsnetscotland.com
Lynn Blair says:
“Does she have a quiff too????”
Over to you Paula….
Sorry to go o/t Stu but just a heads-up to remind people that the great sage Darling is at Dundee Uni this Thursday at 18:00. I might be tempted to ask him if he’s comfortable with all the lies he’s telling his fellow countrymen.
Be there or be square.
My mistake, it was the High St. not Candleriggs.
Just put a YES poster up on my kitchen window which faces the street so hopefully nothing untoward happens as Ardrossan has orange marches which pass by my house.
A little bit worried but worth the risk.
Nana
stormy weather ahead for bbc scotland
They deserve it; wrote of it on my blog, “BBC be Damned,” CBI membership a blatant betrayal of their Charter – BBC Enterprises the excuse – and proof positive BBC Scotland is anything but neutral on the question of Scotland’s ambitions.
Band parade
Very military, d’ye think they are trying to intimidate people by wearing ill fitting uniforms. 🙂
@Grouse Beater
I’ve come close to breaking the tv so many times over the last 6 months.The air is pretty blue in this house lately!
@ Lynn Blair, just to clarify, are the gladioli anything to do with the whips you speak of ? And who’s to do the whining ?
Morrisey gigs can occasionally feel similar to what I expect religion to be like. Weird.
How about “we are the last truly British people you wouldn’t want to know” from National front disco ?
Just read those v interesting articles in the guardian posted re English identity.
I think we should be proud of ourselves because we, the Scots, are the ones who are pushing this agenda for change,
For too long people in the whole of the UK have been struggling to be heard.
I swing between being positive about a Yes and distraught about a No but I now think that the force for change has been unleashed and will not be stopped.
Interestingly John Harris does believe there will be more powers if No – I still don’t think so.
@ HandandShrimp, maybe 200 people in total for the bands marching in Irvine. It looks heavily policed but hardly anyone watching from the pavement. I think the buses that follow each band is the bus they came in too, which is nice.
@Ian Brotherhood
The Irvine Herald is publisher on wednesday as is the Irvine Times,
But they are so up Brian Donohoe’s backside unless they’ve changed
Nana
The air is pretty blue in this house lately!
Blue is a good colour of air to breathe!
Unfortunately for so long most English born people have believed that England is the UK and the rest have never had a second thought.
Their eyes have been opened, only gradually since Devolution but now the spotlight shines bright on Independence. I truly believe the average Brit would accept Independence for Scotland if they voted for it as a done done deal and let’s move on.
It’s the bloody media that is poisoning their minds, just has it has done for decades with the subsidy crap. There will have to be some kind of reconciliation after a Yes vote because I also believe the rUK media will be even worse in stirring up discontent with their readers. Only because it will sell papers.
After we vote Yes, we take time, take stock and deal with whatever they throw our way. I trust the sensible people in rUK to see why we voted Yes and that they will also demand a different type of government from that polluting our lives now.
A present from Auntie, no less. It’s long overdue, and timely reminder of the early years union dividend.
Ethnic cleansing, bordering on genocide.
link to bbc.co.uk
During my working life I spent much time in south of England and you very seldom heard the word Britain it was always England. Britain was only used if they were talking about Wales or Scotland, and only after a wee reminder. Ireland was Ireland North or South.
That’s why they are being wound up by the MSM, because they believe we are one of their provinces that’s what they have been lead to believe.
It would be better for referendum momentum if the sixth seat did not go to one of the Unionist parties.. On this occasion, as a one off, Socialists and Greens should vote tactically for the SNP. In an independent Scotland there will be many opportunities to vote for the Socialist and Green MEP candidates.
Only £20 needed to get Thistle up to the £500 mark in his fundraiser. I thought we’d have it sorted by now 🙁
link to indiegogo.com
Where’s all that 1.5million of you?
Last plug for tonight, Zebedee’s nagging….:)
They just can’t keep it shut.
link to bbc.co.uk
CBI. New talking head, same old guff.
Unauthorised signatory my arse.
O/T Anyone who is fed up with the facile BTL or Vote NOB stuff and who wants to engage in intelligent debate with someone (pro-union) who is thinking it through, might take a look at:
link to chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk
@Kininvie
Interesting blog, but I can’t get my head around his/her comment that we already have self determination, given that we choose to vote on indy.
The fact that we needed Westminster’s approval to hold the referendum kind of negates that argument … no ?
Ref,Alfresco Dent
Alistair Darling was born in England
and has an English father.
His mother has a Scottish name so
possibly Scottish.
Findlay Farquaharson, cynicalHighlander & Liquid Lenny,
I think, ironically, one of the reasons for No still apparently holding strong is the competence of the SNP government.
The SNP government have done extremely well under the circumstances and No voters who voted for it have started taking it for granted. They don’t realise what Westminster will do against Scotland in the event of a No vote.
If a majority votes No, we will have been proven to be ‘too stupid’ and the laughing stock of the world.
The SNP itself would be thoroughly demoralised and it would be totally unfair for it to continue doing the hard work for a majority which voted No.
Let the unionist politicians Lamont, Davidson & Rennie deliver their jam to the majority who believed their false promises.
It would be very hard for us Yes voters, but that would be our best chance for another referendum within 10 years if not sooner, which we would win with an overwhelming majority.
Having said that, I believe democratically there will be a Yes vote, but have grave worries that the British establishment will prevent it from prevailing, either by black ops before the referendum, or if those fail, by rigging the vote.
When did the British establishment ever let a colony become independent without showing its brutality?
I see Cridland of the CBI has ditched his neutrality this morning with another warning over a CU.
Does the BBC, who are a member, agree with this? Have they been consulted.
One day to the Euro elections and Salmond asks that we stop UKIP from making inroads to Scotland.
Whether you are a SNP voter or not, I think it would be a good thing to stop UKIP in their tracks, if only that we can point to our vile media that yes, we are different up here and we have a different outlook. I am sure that a shout will go out to unionists to tactically vote for UKIP though.
We can use the reach of social media to remind folks of what UKIP stand for and why they should not vote for them.
Though I appreciate where the sentiment comes from and in moments of utter frustration I find myself saying the same things, it would be counter productive for the SNP to withdraw from politics and leave the Scottish electorate with the consequences of a No vote. Because they are not just politicians, they are the goodies, the white hats. They are real people not stereotypical troughing cynical lying career politicians, and only that kind of politicians would threaten such dummy spitting things as to not field candidates.
It has always been a feature of the SNP even in their party political broadcasts that they treat the electorate as grown up individuals, and not an amorphous rosette orientated mass.
The white hats never give up, they go on against the odds, they forgive people who are driven by fear to make the wrong decisions, and crucially they win in the end.
This is one of the best times for a referendum and a Yes vote, but it will not be the only time.
Kininvie
who wants to engage in intelligent debate with someone (pro-union)
It’s hardly an “intelligent” debate merely because an opponent can string a sentence together.
Fees for private schools start at £6000/8000 a year. The parents also pay tax to fund all education. Private schools are Charities (don’t pay tax on profits?), but to obtain that status have to pay back. i.e. some award busaries to (talented poor) pupils. Michael Gove? In some cases 25% of pupils.
Oxbridge gets public funding 2000/1 of most other Universities. The most talented, able students go to other Universities. Student loans are means tested on a sliding scale. Students of households of average earnings (£42,000 – both parents – £21,000 or other combination) only get £1000 student loan. Household support is needed for University education. Without household support it is difficult for some straight ‘A’ students to go to University. (Not a ‘something for nothing society’).
The recent increase in tuition fees in the rest of the UK – £6Billion of which 1/2 will never be paid back, in (student) loans, just increased expensive bureaucracy. The £6Billion was borrowed by Westminster. An increase on the gov debt which had to be funded by interest payments. Increasing the debt etc. Irresponsibly sold on to private Loan companies which increases the debt, despite assurances. Student Loans in the rest of the UK will be the next Banking crisis.
Scottish taxpayers are still paying the full cost to educate students from elsewhere. The equivalent of one University.A higher no of places should be taken by students in Scotland or the monies could be better spent on (important) early years education or increased support for underfunded straight ‘A’ students. Or college places as a stepping stone to further education or Uni, including P/T courses which are important for women, disabled students and mature students, who can work as they study.
The reported divide between women and men voters looks like propaganda, as many have suspected. Women too feart? Not likely.
Daily Rancid has 4 page pullout on ”how to burst the Farage balloon”.
I wont expect it to suggest voting SNP though!
Where do they buy the fertiliser that allows the “Don`t Knows to grow” and flourish under the parapet.
28 per cent as ” Don`t Knows” – is frightening.
On the streets, I have yet to meet anyone who professes to be a “don`t know.”
Any clues to their terminal stupidity after all these years.
I have yet to meet one Scot who doesn`t have an opinion on anything and everything.
I agree with Caroline. In the event of a No result, there will be opportunities to do this all over again.
Like some of you, I also have lived in the SE of England for most of my adult life. However as a supporter of independence since 1967, I eagerly await the result in September.
Unlike Sir Sean, I’m not so sure that I will see an independent Scotland in my lifetime. My reasons for this, are that the gloves have yet to be taken off.
Just look at the treatment of UKIP at the moment. Organised opposition of a very dubious kind is present at every major meeting that they have. The purpose is clear, it is to stage manage disharmony, that will be eagerly reported on, and will turn wavering voters against UKIP.
When the time comes they will be sent north, and will target the SNP. They will create the managed situations of disorder for our so called free press, to gleefully comment on.
So much for democracy.
I really want to see a Yes vote in September, but equally realise that as the dirty tactics commence, the voters may be pulled away from voting Yes because of fear.
So, you end up with (and let’s make this simple)
52% N0 and 48% Yes.
This will mean that just slightly less than half of the population want separation, whilst slightly more that half the population will want all mechanisms dismantled to stop it ever happening again.
This will cause great disharmony, and regardless of HM the Queen, and the wishes of Margo, the Scottish people may enter a troublesome period in their history.
That is why Scottish Labour as so wrong to put Party and ideology, before the right of the Scottish people to have clear, reasoned, and logical discussion, on this very important matter.
@heedtracker (11.00 pm) –
Yeah, that’s it. Tallies with the description I was given. Notice the lengthy gaps between the bands.
The ‘Yes’ shop is in an old optician’s which is just beyond the line of trees visible at the vanishing point of the road. If the first bands did stop for a minute, that explains the gaps – if the police sussed what was happening and stopped them doing it? that would explain the gaps shortening.
I counted fifteen bands in all.
Does – “Don`t Know” – translate as “DON`T CARE”.
1999 – 2014. What have we been teaching children who are/will be 15 years old since Holyrood was re-instated.
We will have 19 year olds voting in Sept. who have been taught since they started school 14 years ago, entirely under the auspices of Holyrood.
When Scots,( not necessarily 16-19.) do not know the few Powers held at Holyrood versus “Reserved Powers at Westminster”, we have a problem with only 4 months left to pull them up to speed.
None of them can claim to be uninformed if they were reading WoS.
BBC Scotland headlines,
Sir Mike Rake became president of the CBI in June 2013. He is also chairman of BT Group.
“It is difficult to see how independence would be better for investment and jobs,” he will say.
He will remind Scotland tonight at their annual London dinner of just how wee, stupid and poor we are.
No doubt they will all have a right good laugh at the thought of Scotland becoming an Independent Nation.
I hope this guy reminds you of how much that you actually pay for your BT landline rental.
I got rid of my BT landline over a year ago. It saves me about £250 a year on line rental.
Do you really need your landline phone? Most people use mobiles phones now.
You are actually paying this guy through two different organisations. You are paying him through your BBC License Fee, because BBC Scotland are members of the CBI and also through your BT landline rental and phone bills.
Cancel your BT landline and save yourself a fortune.
There might be a good majority in those who say we will keep the pound, but the number unsure or who think we will have to join the euro still amounts to a substantial number of voters.
Important when some of the polls are pretty close.
Perhaps the SNP need to make the plan B crystal clear – that we will be using the pound anyway.
The debate should be about how much debt we will save if we are using it ‘unofficially’
O/T I know but Just sent gms a text asking who is representing bbc at the CBI/ Better together fundraising dinner tonight
Anyone else notice the carbon capture story this morning?
uk wants to rent out our empty oilfields for other countries in europe to store their CO2.Bloody cheek its our oil and our empty voids too! if anyone is going to rent them out it will be us so all OUR country benefits!
The BBC, still a member of the CBI, is quoting the latter’s latest attack on Scottish self-determination on all of its platforms.
The recent debacle with the CBI and the Electoral Commission never happened. According to the BBC, the CBI is once again merely a dispassionate analyst.
The BBC is openly taunting us.
Bunter
I see Labour’s cheerleaders are rooting for UKIP in the Herald and the Unionists will be praying for UKIP success in Scotland for their own narrow political priorities.
Here’s this old-timer back again…
link to change.org
The good old BBC, just about every indy/business story includes an ‘oh and by the way Standard Life or Alliance Trust said…..’
But with CBI’s first foray back into the fray no reference whatsoever of the recent farcical controversy between it, the BBC and the EC.
link to bbc.co.uk
Onwards
We wont be taking any debt with plan A.
What we have said is that we will pay our fair share of Debt Interest payments.
Remember we have our share of UK assets, most of these are fixed assets, therefore we take a share of the monetary value of UK debt excluding PFI and public pension liabilities GBP 1.6 trillion, UK Assets 1.3 Trillion.
Therefore a sizeable portion of the debt will be written off against our share of assets, meaning our portion of Debt Interest payments will be a lot less than the 4.02 billion per year we pay now.
Dont forget folks FMQs ARE on WED this WEEK not THURS.
@Ian Brotherhood.
There was a march round Motherwell on saturday, around 150-200 people, there wasn’t any flute bands with them but I’m sure they were wearing black arm bands but I’m not 100% as I duked them when I was approaching from the rear as I had my elderly mother with me just in case as I have yes paraphernalia on my car window. Apparently there was a some sort of walk with the bands playing in Carluke on sat evening, I wouldn’t worry about it as its approaching marching season and theres plenty of this crap to come.
The SNP and the SNP Scottish Gov have put pride back into Scotland.
Westminster (Hulne) refused permission for an essential CC Project in Longannet in Fife, despite funding being in place. Scotland can’t access EU renewable Grants (£Billions) and Chinese investment (£Billions) because of Westminster opposition. Westminster cut solar payback 50% from 42p to 21p destroying essential investment in the Solar industry and renewable energy.
Scotland will be investing in it’s own CC industry in it’s Oilfields without Westminster interference. The Scottish Gov will gain £Billions from an equal, progressive, non tax evasion Tax system. HMRC is not fit for purpose. A colossal waste of public monies.
Why are boring, overpaid, London Luvies, the usual suspects, being bought up for the Commonwealth Games coverage.
Vote YES
For fun, Yougov:
Thinking about Nigel Farage, do you think he is
more…
Scotland
6% The voice of the nation
56% A bigoted menace
38% DK / neither
rUK (Scotland removed)
16% The voice of the nation
39% A bigoted menace
45% DK / neither
Would be a good comment on the Herald article from Magnus the morn.
Doh, Stu wish you had an edit function…
Should not post at this time of the morning what I was trying to say is that the monetary value of our share of the assets will be subtracted from what ever is 8.3% of UK debt as of independence day. we will then pay our share of
debt interest payments on that amount, hopefully they can work out a way to pay capital otherwise we will be stuck with an ever ending mortage!!!
@ Ronnie
Thanks for that bit of info re FMQs, it would have passed me by otherwise
This poll, and the questions about what is devolved and reserved, make something rather clear – where VNB are coming from.
Given the widespread lack of understanding and knowledge about how Scottish society is run and organised, there is an obvious opportunity to pull the wool over a lot of people’s eyes! Instead of attempting to educate people allowing them to make rational decisions, VNB sets out to purposely cause further confusion by spreading targetted misinformation.
If everyone campaigning for YES vote,votes surely turnout will be higher than 28%,last European election?
Holyrood committee on bothe sides. on now
link to bbc.co.uk
Training DAy
I seem to have missed the BBC’s acknowledgement that two of Scotland’s largest investment funds with thousands of employees have stated that they will be remaining in Scotland after a Yes vote.
Aberdeen Asset Management the largest listed fund manager in Europe, managing £350 billion and Baillie Gifford with £105 billion under its control.
Contrast this with the BBC’s and MSM extensive coverage of Alliance Trust, which has a mere £7 billion or so of investments under its control, saying that it would “consider” moving if Scotland was outside a currency union.
P.S. Scotland will be keeping the pound.
Darling and Jenkins being ‘grilled’ by the Economics Committee live.
Darling on now.
link to bbc.co.uk
@cynicalHighlander
Ha ha snap!
According to a headline in the Scotsman – which I will not open as I am not giving them traffic – OFCOM have stated that “BROADCASTERS have been warned they could be fined or have their licences suspended for showing bias in the independence referendum.”
I thought they said previously that they had no control over the BBC?
If this is true then the CBI issue needs to be raised.
“saying that it would “consider” moving if Scotland was outside a currency union.”
And simply by having been asked they question they have been forced to consider the option.
By way of illustration, I can guarantee anyone, by the time they have finished reading this sentence, has considered relocating to Mongolia and living in a yurt.
@Sinky
Indeed. If the NUJ at Pacific Quay has got any credibility left it will now have to take action. The Management has completely ignored the NUJ’s concerns over the BBC’s CBI membership, and moreover has rammed them back down the NUJ’s throat.
Thanks ronnie! Never miss FMQs and the weekly fun Alex has with Johann!
Everyone please vote tomorrow and don’t let UKIP get a hold in Scotland! Vote SNP!
O/t I was in Aviemore for the weekend and met all those lovely Yessers! A Spaniard, an Italian, a Polish guy, a Hungarian and Scots too. They were all very active Yessers! You know who you are guys because they read Wings too! I had a great time!
Thanks for Holyrood committee link. Flipper Darling’s an accomplished waffler but he’s really waffling now on Fred the Shred, RBS, popping over for coffee at his house to tell him RBS was finished and how its all Alex Salmond’s fault for sending goodwill letter to Fred but its not Flippers thingee.
Worth listening to just to hear Flipper, Westminster bankbench MP prevaricate like only they can and not a squeak out of Bliar McDougall either, funnily enough.
Darling is unable, in answer to all questions, to be specific. What he can do, and does, is scraremonger.
“Sweden has a high standard of living but …. it has social problems.”
What is that supposed to mean, other than Darling scaremongering?
He adds: “The SNP hope to reduce corporation tax. That means more tax will fall on the ordinary people.”
In that case, reduced corporation tax attracts new companies to locate in Scotland … and if they don’t in sufficient numbers corporation tax is raised again.
The man who demands the Scottish government be specific is chronically unable to be so himself. it’s all generalisation. He screams: “You’ve got costs, you’ve got risks.”
So, what are they specifically?
He does not have the information to be specific.
Flipper, BetterTogether billboards say vote No for more powers “What are the MORE powers you guarantee Scotland if we vote No” Ah, I’m glad you asked me that…
Blair McDougall of the No campaign says,
“There is nothing redistributive in the White Paper.”
What the hell is sovereignty given back to the people if not redistributive?
Do these people understand they are resisting the spread of democratic rights?
@ Grouse Beater, “it’s all generalisation” sums up Flipper and his idiot liar side kick. Seem reasonable, keep Bliar out of it, keep it very very general, waffle away reality stuff like bank crash, promise more powers, let BBC, all news papers etc do the UKOK propaganda. Cunning.
OT Two weeks ago I sent away fro a proxy vote for my husband as he is in hospital as I type – nothing has arrived and I am wondering ,with my suspicious mind , if this is some sort of scam or are they just inefficient and incompetent?
Wilma, give Ronnie a big hug if you meet him in the Counting House. I wish I could be there but I’m sure you will be well looked after by the welcoming gang of Wingers!
Flipper – flips and flops and lies through his teeth all day long and it makes you wonder just where the guy is psychologically based. It’s one thing to be caught into a spiral of initially telling a porky and then having to keep it going with more porkies, but what Flipper is about is chronic, pathological dishonesty, which is bound to be operating at all levels of his life. A worrying condition.
HMG A bunch of lying scum, con artists and fraudsters spivs who talk down to the electorate nicely and wear expensive suites. If you don’t listen they bully and frighten.
MSM A bunch of spineless lying scum con artists and fraudsters spivs. The lachies of HMG.
BBC A bunch of lying scum con artists and fraudsters spivs who talk down to their customers nicely and wear expensive suites. If you don’t listen they bully and frighten.
Anybody who votes for that lot are no better than them and deserve all they get. You would need to be blind, stupid or scared witless not to see the truth, then again “none are so blind as those who do not want to see”.
I have to agree with every word you say Papadox, but what if all you have is that, no access to any other information? I will never forgive these people, they are selling their country into servitude for money, there is a word for them and it has been used for centuries. Traitors.
The parliamentary committee gave them an easy time.
They had two carpetbaggers there to be held to account and they let them waffle. You have to be far more aggressive, ditch the bourgeois good manners. You don’t have to insuilt to force out the truth.
Here is a good example of US open debate:
US Senator to head of the Investment Banks Supervisory Committe after he and his colleagues – waffling in answer to questions – failed completely to see the collapse of their corrupt institutions:
“You couldn’t find your butts if you thrust you hands down the back of your pants!”
The parliamentary committee gave them an easy time.
They had two carpetbaggers there to be held to account and they let them waffle. You have to be far more aggressive, ditch the bourgeois good manners. You don’t have to insuilt to force out the truth.
Here is a good example of US free speech:
US Senator to head of the Investment Banks Supervisory Committe, frustrated at the head supervisor’s inability to answer a direct question, waffling in answer to questions, and who failed completely to see corruption and collapse of the institutions under his supervision:
“You couldn’t find your butts if you thrust you hands down the back of your pants!”
@Drunken Hobo
I don’t see why Scotland need to follow Westminster convention and use the title Prime Minister after Independence. Just like we have procurators fiscal up here we can have First Ministers. The terms are pretty much interchangeable anyway and mean the same things. The Irish seem happy with a Taoisheach instead of a PM. Maybe we can have a Gaelic term too?
Maybe we can have a Gaelic term too?
I like that idea.
Or how about Chancellor? That used to be used way back
Well if Lord Robertson is to be believed (OK I maybe took that a wee bit far) we will be using Sith Lord as the title.
SNP press release states that A.D. has confirmed that he has had private discussions with Sir Nicholas Macpherson but would not disclose the details of the conversation.
Confirmation that A.D. has been instrumental in the UK stance on CU, though I guess we knew that already.
He seems to have wide access to the UK Gov and apparatus, despite being an opposition backbench MP!
bunter
I guess it is no surprise, the whole shooting match has been a coordinated hatchet job and Darling has been working to the UK Government. This much should not surprise us. Given that the they have all been singing from the same hymn sheet, perhaps the biggest surprise is that their campaign is such a dog’s breakfast.
Prince Charles opens his Gob, thereby insulting the memories of 20+ millions of Russians who died in WW2.
Response:
Nick Clegg defended the prince over his comments, saying it was “clearly a private conversation”.
“I have never been of this view that if you are a member of the Royal Family somehow you have to enter into some Trappist vow of silence.”
Conservative Party chairman Grant Shapps said people would draw their own conclusions, but it was “not for ministers to comment on what our royals say”.
Hypocrites to a man.
‘Democracy’ UK style. Gerrymandering MSM. SNP airbrush out of the Election campaign.
rab_the_doubter says:
“Nick Clegg defended the prince over his comments, saying”
“Please Sir, can I be a Lord, Sir, please, Sir?”
There, fixed that for you rab 😀
HandandShrimp & bunter
“their campaign is such a dog’s breakfast.”
Hardly a surprise, given all they have to work with is scares, sentimentality and lies.
Allan Massie–The Scotsman
So we are left with the SNP claiming it is between them and Ukip for this last Scottish seat, which may or may not be true but is an interesting prospect. The two parties have MUCH IN COMMON
The SNP is a coherent, disciplined and well-established party with a long history behind it. The wild men were eliminated or sidelined a long time ago, even if some of the intemperate and NASTY INTERNET POSTS by the so-called CYBERNATS might seem to suggest otherwise.
But if the SNP is not anti-English (though some who vote for it MAY BE THAT )
It is in its hostility to Westminster and the political class there that UKIP IS AT ONE WITH THE SNP.Ukip’s founding purpose was to get the UK out of the EU(Tory party been at war over EU since thatcher-eg bill cash)
hatchet job
link to scotsman.com
Should the SNP announce that in the event of a no vote in September they will effectively disband?
Personally I don’t think they would but I do think that they should. A no vote would consign “Scotland” to the dustbin of history and show itself to be a “country” unworthy of serious representation.
@Grouse Beater
Maybe we can have a Gaelic term too?
As a native gaelic speaker I quite like Prìomh Mhinistear na h-Alba
Gaelic for First Minister is Prìomh Mhinistear.
Irish for Prime Minister is Taoiseach, Irish for President is Uachtaran. The Scottish Gaelic equivalents are toiseach ‘clan chief’, and uachdaran ‘governor, ruler, chief, superior, prince’.
I cannot wait for UKIP to be the largest group from England/Wales in Europe.
You want a game changer? That is it.
Like we need one, but still…
Saw an online Guardian piece headlined “Nigel Farage : Labour & Tory Attacks on UKIP Leader Backfire”.
Do you think we’d ever see such a headline in our impartial MSM about Salmond? Is there such a thing as the tooth fairy?….
Hey leave us fairies oot o it. 😉
rab_the_doubter
Did Putin not call England a wee insignificant country in western Europe that nobody bothered about any more.
And Russia have just signed the biggest gas export deal in their history, with China.
They don’t need Europe to export to.
So what are you going to do with Russia now Mr Cameron?
Russia will just cut off the gas supply to the Ukraine all together.
EVERY country the UK gets involved with, ends up worse off.
Wait to you see them sort out Nigeria now.
Vote YES and let them get on with it.
next headline will be
Charles v putin/salmond
Cmon Rev my ropes ready for an outing gies a new story lol
@ Muscleguy
I am all for calling him or her, The Chancellor, like in days of yore.
That and a pegged currency to the £ Stg called the Scots Merk.
That would GIRUY Westminster, but endear us in other places.
The Herald is going with this poll. (extract)
UKIP policies to curb immigration, cut overseas aid and crack down on benefits claimants are backed by a majority of Scots, a surprise new poll suggests, despite the repeated failure of Nigel Farage’s anti-EU party to make a breakthrough north of the Border.
The survey shows nearly seven out of 10 Scots back stricter immigration controls, a key pledge in Ukip’s manifesto for tomorrow’s European elections.
Just over half want international aid budgets to be cut, while six out of 10 people say benefits should only be available to those who have lived in the UK for at least five years.
The findings show Conservative voters are the most likely to endorse Ukip’s manifesto promises.
But there is also significant backing from SNP voters, despite Alex Salmond’s European election campaign pitch that tomorrow’s poll offers a chance to reject Ukip’s “nasty politics”. Labour and LibDem voters are less likely to favour Ukip policies, the poll found.
The survey was conducted by pollsters Survation for Dundee University’s Five Million Questions project, which aims to increase public and academic engagement in the referendum debate.
See you all at CH2
Good to see this starting to pick up a bit, for Thistle/Independence Live –
link to indiegogo.com
If they get a NO result in September then the proud pseudo middle class Scots will have signed a long term agreement with Westminster to ignore them and hollow out the Scottish parliaments powers to do anything meaningful and positive for the Scottish people.
The proud pseudo middle class Scots will get gutted along with the rest of us, maybe then they will realise how close and important to Westminster they are?
Our NHS will be emasculated and privatised like the English NHS. University tuition fees will be introduced by cutting the block grant. Probably nearer to their hearts, selling of their parents houses for long term care costs. Prescription charges, and charges for seeing a doctor. Due to cutting the block grant, the good old bedroom tax will be reintroduced. Aye better together, it just keeps getting better.
They think they are above the riff raff but to LONDINIUM they are just cannon fodder like the rest of us, so make yourself comfortable and bend over you are about to get treated as one of the peasants.
Yep the good old pseudo middle class proud Scots have nothing to worry about their unionist friends in Westminster will take care of them, you can put your money on that. It’s what you voted for so enjoy.
Hello Papadox
Sorry to interrupt your rant but I was at a Yes meeting yesterday planning canvassing on the south side of Edinburgh and I would say that every person there was middle class by one measure or another. There was even at least one Scottish Tory, perhaps the most enthusiastic of all. Just FYI.
call me dave
It is easy to elicit those kind of responses against a backdrop of tabloid hysteria over immigration. In practice Scots have tended to rally against Home Office ejections of immigrants when those immigrants have become part of the local community.
Papadox
I am fortunate to be one of the better-off pensioners but I do have a social conscience which is why I’ll be voting Yes.
I wonder where STU is today, not like him, hope everything is ok?
@MajorBloodnok
“one Scottish Tory (Yes), perhaps the most enthusiastic of all”. Brilliant!
@fairiefromtheearth
My apologies! No more tooth fairy references….. I should have substituted something like, “is there such a thing as a non-blinking Darling?”
YES announces a big Business for Scotland ”thunderclap” fundraiser to educate and provide voters the TRUTH about Scotlands economic potential.
They are looking to launch 30/5 with a target of 30K. This one will be well worth our while backing.
Les Wilson says:
“I wonder where STU is today, not like him, hope everything is ok?”
Said earlier on twitter he was popping out for a couple of hours – something about “eval meedya”
Probably getting the papers and now writing furiously!
@Les Wilson
link to twitter.com
X Sticks; I did think it was hellish quiet around here myself.
It’s not like the Rev to not belt someone for page breaks.
Whatever he’s up to at the moment, it’s probably fair to say the Daily Mail won’t like it… more power to him, because anything that the Daily Mail doesn’t like is fine by me.
@fairiefromtheearth
It seems like every time I look at a thread, theres you with unsavoury comments.
“Cmon Rev my ropes ready for an outing gies a new story”
“A lot of Rangers fans will be ex army and let me tell you after you murder dozens of natives and find out it was a big lie, your perspective changes”
“Dont worry folks in sure the uncurruptable police are on the job”
“cmon Rev Divide and Conqure, like ive said before WHO are they polling, is it the working class or Bearsdean residents”
“oh no the EU debt train,looks like everybodys aboard how great it is to be indebted to someone else,another black hole for ordanary peoples monies”
“EU is a dictatorship remember that bad man that got run out of Scotland,you know the English one thats always SCREAMING about the EU dictatorship and the way it overrides member states laws,spends monies like they are going to die tommorow,is that the EU everybody wants to join? cause cmon that old you have to be in it to change it bullshit is getting old”
“its time for change not just in Scotland a World change cause all this madness has to stop,time for nato to pull back from Russia and China,time for the cia saudi regeme to stop the global terrorism”
“The thing is this cu-t is banging on about history and judging it by his standards. He is wasting his 15min of fame and history will prove him to be a fool.”
“Bugger their all warmongering capatalist whores enough said”
Maybe tone it down?
If someone was to take your comments at face value they would conclude that were nasty cybernats out for a lynch mob, who think all soldiers are murderers, hate the police, despise the middle class, are radical to the extreme and foul mouthed.
Theres a mix of views on a mix of topics. Comments on ‘ropes’ and ‘outings’ aren’t a good idea – even in jest.
At the risk of starting another lying-duck thread, another possible Gaelic word for chief, manager or leader is ‘Ceannard’.
Pronounced roughly KyeeahnArsht.
More literally it is closer to ‘high heid yin’ which could be a kind of Scottish in joke.
I wonder if his tweeted ‘Popping out to do some EVIL MEEJA,’ is related to his tweet yesterday(?) that ‘something mildly astonishing had happened’? I’m thinking an offer to appear on Newsnicht maybe as it’s the last week before that prog ends and may go out with a bang – OR, that he’s been asked to be interviewed for Newsnicht’s replacement prog?
He’s such a tease. 🙂 but we’ll find out soon,I’m sure.
@Chic
Like that one a lot. Ceannard has a ring to it.
Good article here
link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
Does the last ‘Arsht’ part of KyeeahnArsht, not seem a wee bit too near to ‘arse’, though?
Labour defector….read all about it!
link to breitbart.com
@bunter
Agree. Have already joined up for the Thunderclap and will bung a donation on the day.
In Stu’s absence then, why don’t we have a wee quiz?
Although I hate tempting fate…. picture the scene, it’s the day after the vote & Yes has triumphed.
Amongst the No/BT posse,who’s face would you most like to picture & what would they be saying?
Mine’s would be Johann:-
Crestfallen, red, bloated complexion…”Erchie!, Erchie!, would ye f*****g believe it? They’ve jist blown it fur us! Jeeziz christ….pass me through that bottle o’ vodka…”
“Like that one a lot. Ceannard has a ring to it.” 😥
Chic McGregor – is that a reference to my thinking it rhymed – ish, with arse?
@Democracy Reborn
Too many to select from.
How about its the last helicopter from the roof of Pacific Quay and it can take only 10?
Oops – didn’t mean rhymed, meant sounded like. 🙁
T Jenny
Might have been, I thought more likely a harping back to the famous canard/duck thread. i.e. you know how they get rings put on them’n that? Do tell XS
@Chic,
Only meant it was good Chic, I liked the “high heid yin” aspect of it.
Alistair Darling.
Head hung low, wee rosy cheeks and blinking furiously, his scrawny arse is booted over the border by Alex Salmond!
“It wis the Tories that made me do it”
Darling, called by some as flipper, I kinda like Lady Alba’s name for him, UNIBROW!
A reminder that First Minister’s Questions are on today (as highlighted by Ronnie) starts at 3pm. It’s on BBC2 or Democracy Live online
“In short: nobody’s buying the unionist line”
But the unionists ‘line’ isn’t that Scotland won’t get to keep the pound, its that Scotland won’t get to form a currency union.
Obviously neither the unionists, or anyone else, can stop Scotland or any other country from using the pound if it wants.
If, as is likely, a currency union is rejected then the SNP will probab