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Wings Over Scotland

Not scared yet?

Posted on May 25, 2014 by

Recently we’ve been documenting a bizarre attempt by the No camp to terrify Scots with the thought that in order to continue to pay for pensions and public services and whatnot, an independent Scotland would need, um, almost exactly the same amount of immigration it has now. (Particularly alert readers may even recall when we pointed out that the UK parties used to have the exact opposite viewpoint.)

And it seems our critiques have already hit home.

Because a column by Gillian Bowditch in today’s Sunday Times has evidently realised that the “25,000 a year” line wasn’t having the desired effect, and ramped it up a little.


By 100%, to be precise.

So just to recap in case you’re having trouble keeping score: in 2008, we didn’t need any immigration at all. In August 2013, we didn’t have nearly enough. On Saturday we needed 24,000 a year. And now, one day later, even 50,000 won’t get the job done.

Does anyone want to take a stab at tomorrow’s figure?

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    1. 25 05 14 23:02

      Not scared yet? | Scottish Independence News

    285 to “Not scared yet?”

    1. Lindsey Smith says:

      Is there a prize for nearest guess?

    2. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Soon they will give us the city of Newcastle, to help the numbers.

    3. Pat says:

      Fact trumps opinion, I’ll go for 24,000.

    4. scottish_skier says:

      Man, who’d a thunk the Sunday Times would be anti-English.

      Biggest group of ‘them foreigners’ that have moved to Scotland since devolution were born in England.

    5. Marcia says:

      Maybe the figure is to tie in with the amount of votes the Liberal Democrats get in Scotland tonight.

    6. Marcia says:

      EP2014 ‘Die Welt’ exit poll projection:
      UKIP – 24 MEPs
      Labour – 22
      Con – 17
      Green – 6
      Lib Dem – 2
      SNP – 3
      PC – 1
      SF – 1
      DUP 1
      UUP 1

      seems odd to get a German Broadcaster to give a UK exit poll but then it is a European Broadcaster.

    7. Croompenstein says:

      Will it be like the airport stalking by UKIP for the great tide of Romanians and Bulgarians that didn’t quite happen, that’s the thing when they mention the word immigrant they want you to think of some bogeyman from the east but most of our immigrants will be from England.

    8. Bigbricks says:

      Emmm…. two. No, no, fifty-four thousand. Em, a million. No, no err, eighty-two thousand.

      Oh, bugger it, I give up. Let’s ask a reliable source. Are you reading this Blair?

    9. scottish_skier says:

      I reckon about 10 gazillion/yr.

    10. David says:

      Hunners an thoosans!

    11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      *throws dart blindfold, multiplies by 1000*

    12. handclapping says:

      The extra 25000 will be more English pensioners like me hoping to get the higher pensions available in Scotland which is why Gillian is correct

    13. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a wee teaser – if you got everyone in the world together, spaced just far enough to hold hands and/or touch the shoulder of the person in front of them, how much space would they occupy?

      I don’t know the answer. Just wondering.

      A wonderfully eccentric writer called Hendrik Van Loon did a similar exercise in one of his books (maybe ‘The Home of Mankind’) where he postulated putting the entire human population into some bizarre space (I think it was an underwater crevasse or suchlike) and it turned out they wouldn’t take up much space at all.

    14. crazycat says:

      Marcia – re die Welt info – someone German is commenting on this on UK Polling Report – he doesn’t rate it at all.

    15. donald anderson says:

      If it’s a No vote Ah’m off tae Bulgaria seeking sanctuary.

    16. RogueCoder says:

      Usually if doubling the lie doesn’t work, they add a zero and claim it was a “drafting error”

    17. handclapping says:

      Anyway I dont see what the scare is, my pension and my next doors are both paid from Newcastle and that is even more of a basket case* than Scotland

      *basket case : anywhere in UKoGB&NI outside the M25 except in a Southerly direction

    18. bookie from hell says:

      Duncan Hothersall-tweet

      SNP preparing to pretend their vote is an indicator of support for independence, after fighting a “stop UKIP” campaign. #EP2014 #EPScot

    19. geeo says:

      The problem for BT on immigration is that in general, Scots do not fear it.

      Next !!

    20. Ken500 says:


    21. handclapping says:

      Ageing population, more jobs for pall bearers, hearse drivers and such like. Jobs that cannot be outsourced to Asia.

      Always look on the bright side 😉

    22. Ken500 says:

      Fradge’s, 18hrs a day, German wife.

      To get away from the alcoholic

      Thanks for the Dunc dunce comment. SNP have won.

      Go girl Yasmina, give ’em hell.

    23. Marcia says:

      Aberdeenshire result: BF 618, BNP 576, Tories 15710, Lab 6402, LibDem 8876, No2EU 258, Green 3612 SNP 19992, Ukip 7420

    24. heedtracker says:

      Just one more pathetic lying UKOK journalist, should be engraved on “a column by Gillian Bowditch.”

      How many bettertogether journalists daily bullshitting Scotland like this are there anyway? 100, 1000, 10 million.

      You want to see the P&J in action though. They’ve gone stark staring mad for the union.

    25. Castle Rock says:


      Do you\anyone have the figures from 2009 so that we can compare?


    26. eezy says:

      Knowing folks who’ve lived and worked south of our border, (inc. me), I’m aware of the divisive tensions.
      Spent today at Strathclyde Park.
      It was amazing. Most folk weren’t looking for the same as me.
      So many different creeds….Great day out. Loved it.
      Not saying it’s the same everywhere but we are definitely a better sort…

      Btw….Simon Says YES!….

    27. Marcia says:

      Castle Rock

      Remember in 2009 the expenses scandal erupted and Labour were rocked with Cabinet resignations and plots to get rid of Gordon Brown that week of the election which depressed the Labour vote.

    28. Clootie says:

      The actual number in a BT story no longer matters. Too few people / not enough oil / etc

      The should just leave a row of dots in order that the public can put in their own figure.
      We have had a million BT leaflets, 25,000 BT ground troops – I give up!

    29. Castle Rock says:

      Thanks Marcia

    30. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Gillian Bowditch!!! You forgot to include reference to the fact that sea level is rising — and proportionately higher in Scotland if it loses the broad absorbent shoulders of the magnificent English!

      So with all that sea pouring up the demented glens where will Scotland find room for the immigrants? And once they start to flood in by the hundred squillion in they’ll make the place so massively heavy that it’ll be like the ice sheet all over again and we’ll sink!!!

      Bag a Munro before it’s too late!!

      Crivvens, Gillian Bowditch! The almost certain consequences of being such a shitty poor wee place unyoked from strong stable and unsinkable England might never have so spectacularly been illustrated.

      It’s terrifying, Gillian!! Why didn’t you tell us!!!

    31. Democracy Reborn says:

      “provide adequate pension provision”???

      Gillian, Gillian – THE UK HAS THE LOWEST STATE PENSION IN EUROPE! (Daily Mail, 27/11/13)

      Let’s all stay together & look forward to it!

    32. caz-m says:

      The BBC and SKY, have Scotland named as a region and the SNP named as an “other”. Yet they have named the BNP.

      The elected majority government of Scotland and they still list the SNP as an “other”. Forkin Outrageous.

    33. Ken500 says:

      Scotland is rising in proportion

      Dover is falling – into the sea. London S/E is lowering. The Thames flooding.

      Gillian will be planning the wee highland second hame.

      Spot the hypocritical immigrant

    34. Thepnr says:

      Well that was the first of my “things to look forward to” predictions come right. Next up the World Cup.

      Come on England, don’t let us down now.

    35. Castle Rock says:

      Renfrewshire Council Area result:

      Labour Party 16,021, Scottish National Party (SNP) 13,499, Conservative Party 5,777, United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) 4,748, Scottish Green Party 2,810, Liberal Democrats 1,508, British National Party 363, No2EU 302

    36. bookie from hell says:

      UKIP beat Labour Aberdeen


    37. The Rough Bounds says:

      An increase in our population of 50,000 means an extra 50,000 mouths to feed three times a day, and an extra 50,000 people using the toilet each day.

      Sorry if that’s distasteful to you, but it is a fact. Nothing is ever as simple as it is made out. No one ever looks for the unintended consquences of an increase in population.

      Certainly it means more people paying tax, but these people will themselves grow old and become a ‘burden’ on society. We shall only be delaying the day of reckoning by a few more years. Our current population of 5 million is adequate if we apply ourselves properly.

    38. Castle Rock says:

      City of Edinburgh Local Counting Area:

      Labour Party 32,758, Scottish National Party 32,721, Conservative Party 27,554, Scottish Green Party 22,836, Liberal Democrats 12,575, UK Independence Party 10,992, Britain First 1,035, British National Party 676, NO2EU 548

    39. Alba4Eva says:

      3 and a half.

      Do a win?

    40. Paula Rose says:

      (@ Thepnr – are England playing footie this summer? They’re not very good when it’s hot, is it Finland – they might have a chance.)

    41. call me dave says:

      If like me your lying in bed listening to radio 5 (no Scottish radio) or using the laptop.

      Scottish results on this page.

    42. Faltdubh says:

      LBC sayign UKIP looking at a seat in Scotland, surely no…

    43. Sinky says:

      City of Edinburgh Local Counting Area

      Britain First 1,035

      British National Party 676

      Conservative Party 27,554

      Labour Party 32,758

      Liberal Democrats 12,575

      NO2EU 548

      Scottish Green Party 22,836

      Scottish National Party 32,721

      UK Independence Party 10,992

      Turnout 41.6 %

    44. goldenayr says:


      See how you don’t take a day off.

      Did you catch Harry Enfields plea to make a new constitution on beeb 2?

      He’s not hurting his health.

    45. Marcia says:

      SNP win Dundee with 40% of the vote.

    46. heedtracker says:

      Just heard deflated whoopee cushion Jim Naughty on vote NO BBC R4 desperately trying to work down Aberdeen SNP holding vote but oh no, UKIP have won a vote or twa too. Haha!

    47. call me dave says:

      I see the SNP vote very slighty down % wise on that first set of results. Naughtie in charge of the show tonight on radio 5.

      Brian Taylor saying (on that link) Ukip to get seat No6

    48. Westie7 says:

      If this continues stand by for JoLa to be rolled out on everywhere tomorrow

    49. Diane says:

      Unreporting Scotland forecasting MEP’S as 2 SNP, 2 Labour, 1 Con, 1 UKIP. But then they would wouldn’t they. Did emphasise as things stand about 6 times which probably means 3 SNP, 2 Labour, 1 Con.

    50. Thepnr says:

      @The Rough Bounds

      Scotlands population could easily double over time. we have plenty space and food and water. We have been held back, this is a big country considering the population density.

      Emigration is the problem not immigration, when we vote Yes I am certain the vast majority of our immigrants will be from the rUK.

      Massive house building boom. New schools and hospitals. Loads and loads more jobs. We have the space, all we need is the commitment and the power.

    51. goldenayr says:


      Harry is probably worrying himself sick as to the country his kids are growing up in,and had to make them realise the merits of disobedience.


      You don’t…we’re already onboard.

    52. goldenayr says:

      UKIP 2% tops in Scotland.

    53. Thepnr says:


      SNP win Dundee with 40% of the vote.

      And I can’t get 40 to fill a bus?

    54. Diane says:

      We demand a recount in Edinburgh!

    55. bookie from hell says:

      SNP shafted the green party

    56. call me dave says:

      Lib/dems do well in Orkney Shetlands and Gibraltar. 🙂

    57. Marcia says:

      from the Dundee Greens:

      SNP 13,573
      Labour 9,050
      Con 4,010
      GREEN 2,193
      Lib Dem 1,248
      UKIP 2,965
      B1st 237~BNP 241~NO2EU 176

    58. Westie7 says:

      Thoroughly ashamed to say I live in Aberdeenshire with that many folk voting UKIP here. But then again I do know a few farmers who blame Europe for the CAP distribution!

    59. heraldnomore says:

      Just back from South Lanarkshire count. UKIP 11%; Labour up from 27% to over 33%; SNP holding vote at over 29%. Lib Dem down by more than half to only 3.5%; and Tories up fractionally. Hmmmm

    60. call me dave says:

      SNP come out on top in another three council counts – Angus, Clackmannanshire and Dundee.

      Their 11,044 votes in Angus beating Conservatives’ 7,534 and Labour’s 3,768.

      In Clackmannanshire, the SNP got 4,074 votes and Labour, 3,825.

      And in Dundee, the SNP gets 13,573 votes, with Labour on 9,050 and the Conservatives, 4,010.

    61. Liquid Lenny says:

      so far in Scotland UKIP have 10% of the vote, Tonite Im ashamed to be Scottish

    62. Thepnr says:

      Brian Taylor reports over on BBC coverage of Scotland results:

      David Coburn, the lead Scottish UKIP candidate, has arrived at the count. He reckons he stands a good chance of winning. As an aside, he says the Scottish government’s new land laws prove Alex Salmond is, “the Robert Mugabe of Scottish politics”.

    63. call me dave says:

      Perth and Kinross result
      SNP: 14,271, Conservatives: 12,906, Labour: 4,890, UKIP: 4,386 votes.

      Here’s link for results.

    64. Alba4Eva says:

      So angry at those blind folk who voted Greens. If UKIP get a seat, it will be their fault. This election was important for the referendum and the Greens were never going to win anything anyway… the obvious tactical vote was the SNP.

      Look at the result in Edinburgh and add the SNP and Green vote. Across Scotland it would have given us 3 (50%) of the seats as pro-independence MEP’s… a huge indi boost potentially missed, because folk don’t know how to make their vote count.

    65. rab_the_doubter says:

      I’m a wee bit concerned about the SNP vote being down and bizarrely Labour and Ukip vote is up. Got a horrible feeling that this is going to be used as a stick to beat us.
      Is anyone out there able to make sense of this and give us a bit of comfort?

    66. Training Day says:

      Anyone else feeling this is rigged? A foretaste of the Electoral Commission controlled referendum?

    67. Westie7 says:


      I’m with you on this, Pacific Quay are going to be a nightmare.

    68. call me dave says:

      Update: Scotland Radio 5 says Ukip might not break 10%+ to get that 6th seat. Naughtie may comment 🙂

      Labour vote is up a few %

    69. Sinky says:


      You cannot blame Green voters who stuck by their party.

      UKIP had no organisation on the ground and not even boards outside polling stations in my constituency.

      Any UKIP success is down to wall to wall BBC coverage to the complete exclusion of the SNP and Greens.

    70. geeo says:

      I was watching Gangs of New York the other day, the bit when the irish were coming off the boats and were told “sign here to become an American Citizen, now sign here to join the army..Away and go fight for your country”.

      As they were getting on the next boat to fight, the bodies were coming off the same boat.
      The menfolk never left the dock area.

      Dare we suggest that as a ruk immigration policy idea ?

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      I was very impressionable when this was all the rage, not long having advanced from crawling. At least I have an excuse. 🙂

      Daniel Boone – Beautiful Sunday

    72. Paula Rose says:

      Chill out – most folk think Europe is where a full english breakfast is cheaper than at home and you can eat it outside wearing your underwear.

    73. The Rough Bounds says:


      But it’s all relative. 100 years ago Scotland’s population was only around 4 million yet we were leading the world in shipbuilding and other forms of engineering. Our education system was second to none. We were enjoying the benefits of the Scottish Enlightenment.

      There are other countries in the world that have a smaller population than ours but are doing much better on the world stage. Independence is certainly the main step in the right direction, but doubling our population won’t solve anything in the long run.

    74. bookie from hell says:

      Caesar! I voted green,we both sht ourselves in the head

    75. Paula Rose says:

      And Caesar!4eva – honey, I’ve voted green for a long long time.

    76. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I don’t blame Greens who voted for their party. I do blame the undecided who went for the Greens as a tactical anti-UKIP vote. That was moronic, brain-dead and self-destructive.

    77. Alba4Eva says:

      Sinky, the truth is that the way these elections for the 6 MEP’s are, the Green vote is a wasted vote and will count for absolutely nothing. Greens could have supported many of their policies by voting SNP. That way they would have made their vote work for them, rather than get zip.

    78. westie7 says:

      Hoping the remaining 14 to still be declared buck the trend so far, getting a bit depressed

    79. Liquid Lenny says:

      Poultice, talking pish, Salmond sorted him out.

    80. Training Day says:

      Curtice showing his visceral colours on BBC now. Viscerally pro- Union, and acting as a BBC interviewer with a pro- Union agenda.

    81. Liquid Lenny says:

      Brilliant , Salmond has had a go at the BBC being a mouthpiece for UKIP

    82. Indy_Scot says:

      The Prof unable to hide his true colours on the BBC

    83. bunter says:

      Excellent from Salmond giving Curtice and the BBC a kicking!

    84. Castle Rock says:

      Its got nothing to do with the Greens and all to do with the BBC pushing UKIP into our homes 24/7.

      Disgraceful that we have to watch another country’s politics and don’t get a balanced or fair view of our own.

    85. Croompenstein says:

      WTF is Poultice all about, who the fuck does he think he is a BBC mouthpiece, got egg on his face as FM had to explain things to him. Professor my erse

    86. westie7 says:

      Nice one AS Need more of this from Yes & SNP

    87. call me dave says:

      Liquid Lenny

      Aye heard that AS says that they have been monitoring BBC Scotland’s output (interesting!) and the Ukip have had 4 X more exposure than the SNP. Ukip a party with no base in Scotland.

    88. Paula Rose says:

      Not quite getting the drift here – a yes vote and a lot of things will change, the vote for Green is vital in an understanding of Scottish politics. A vote for the SNP does not tell us a lot about the politics of an independent Scotland does it?

    89. Nana Smith says:

      Have always thought Poultice is a bought and paid for unionist,not to be trusted any more than the bloody beeb

    90. James123 says:

      Curtice trying to make out that UKIP winning 10% and coming fourth in Scotland is the same as them coming first with over 30% of the vote in England, what a joke the man is, impartial BBC, don’t make me laugh.

    91. Training Day says:

      all complaints to BBC Glasgow says Dimbleby, smugly, after Curtice’s naked display of pro union bias.

      Shame on the ignorant racist cowards in Scotland who voted UKIP.

    92. caz-m says:

      The BBC are luvvin this UKIP shit. First time I have heard Alex Salmond accuse the BBC of UKIP bias and he also got a dig in that this was coming from London BBC HQ.
      Glasgow was powerless.

      IF YKIP do get a seat, then surely it will be the wake up call we need to double our effort to win this Referendum.

    93. Justin Ross says:

      Just witnessed the biased little performance of the BBC against Alex Salmond. Do they always bring in their studio experts (Professor Curtice) live to trade stats with party leaders? That and the dismissive, derisory attitude and remarks of Dame Dimbleby and Nick Robinson highlight just what the BBC and London establishment think of the Scots and our elected First Minister.

    94. No no no...yes says:

      Curtice has just come out as anti snp,shocking. Alex S.says we have been monitoring bbc output and beaming in ukip to bbc scotland. Dimplebum told him to report it to bbc glasgow and Alex retorts, “that’s the problem!”
      Top Man!

    95. Murray McCallum says:

      UKIP look to be solidly in 4th place in Scotland. The small increase in the Green vote is not the issue.

      Did many LibDems not vote and/or switch to Labour?

    96. Faltdubh says:

      Very harsh to be blaming folk for voting Green (if UKIP do steal that 6th seat).

      The REAL problem is 10% so far of Scotland voted for UKIP, nothing to do with the Greens.

    97. Justin Ross says:

      The fact that as it stands 94,919 people in Scotland have voted for UKIP is a funkin disgrace. Who are these people? Disgusting.

    98. bookie from hell says:


      why give SNP 3

      I wanted a green ,just 1

    99. Training Day says:

      Let no one ever characterise Curtice as neutral again after his performance tonight. Viciously anti SNP, backed up by his pals in London BBC.

    100. bookie from hell says:

      Nick Robinson can’t contain himself,UKIP a seat in Scotland

    101. Nana Smith says:

      If this man curtice can show his blatant ani snp then it just proves how skewed his polling results must be and I have no faith in the electoral commission either.
      They’ve shown their true colours by allowing the cbi an easy get out of trouble card.

    102. Alba4Eva says:

      Well Bookie, if you voted Green, I could have told you not to waste your time… indeed I did on here some weeks ago.

    103. Liquid Lenny says:

      Anybody notice the running total bar along the bottom of the BBC Screen it says

      Great Britain then lists parties in order

      UKIP Con Lab Grn and Ld no mention of SNP

      First of all don’t think there is a political entity called Great Britain, secondly if there is then surely the SNP should be included?

    104. call me dave says:

      I’ve a feeling from what AS has said that the YES may be about ready to flex some muscles at last.

      6th seat on a knife edge they are running at 10.33% on the Scotland results board.

    105. Elizabeth says:

      Alex Salmond was magnificent in the way he dealt with the smirking Diimbleby and Curtice. And he nicely slapped down smart ass Dimbleby who thought he had got the last word blaming BBC Glasgow for beaming all the wholly unbalanced UKIP garbage into Scotland. He is the best politician in these islands. Thank goodness he’s ours.

    106. Murray McCallum says:



      The Green vote has [disappointingly] hardly moved. I say disappointingly as I hoped more LibDems could move to Green (on basis they would not vote SNP).

    107. Lesley-Anne says:

      Congratulations to the First Minister for sticking it to the BBC at the end of his interview with smug Sir gittish Dimbleby. Complaint to the BBC indeed! What would be the point of that Dimbleby, BBC Scotland is useless and only ever follows orders from London! Let’s face it, would UKIP be doing so well if not for all the free advertising and extra party political broadcasts offered to UKIP by the BBC!

      As is usual Curtice was his usual bullish “I hate SNP and everything it stands for” stance. Just a wee pity the First Minister was available to put him back in his box then. 😉

    108. Thepnr says:

      I’m in Rotterdam and missing all this live. Just following your comments.

      If we do get a UKIP MEP then that just gives me more cause for supporting Yes and a reason to persuade others. In saying that, lets hope we don’t get one of these nasty bastards representing you and I.

    109. galamcennalath says:

      Keep the faith! As Margo MacDonald said, each Yes supporter only has to convert one other person and we win in September!

    110. Training Day says:

      We will lose this referendum by hook or by crook.

      Adios Scotland.

    111. Dcanmore says:

      The sneering and smugness towards the First Minister was atrocious as the BBC bigs up UKIP. AS quite rightly fires a couple of barrels at Dimblebot and Curticebought as the UK goes to hell in a rightwing handcart.

    112. call me dave says:

      Most disaffected lib/dems (-4%) seem to have gone to labour party (+5%)

      Greens are very marginally changed 0.66%.

    113. Justin Ross says:

      galamcennalath is spot on. When have European elections, with their terrible turnouts ever matched general election results etc.? The referendum is still wide open and all of us to win. Lets do it 😀

    114. rab_the_doubter says:

      Another scary stat is that there are 18,000 overt racists in Scotland who voted for BNP/Britain First.

    115. Ravelin says:

      Have the 100k+ people in Scotland that voted UKIP actually listened to David Coburn speak? If so did they really think it sensible to have him represent their country?

    116. Thepnr says:

      Don’t be despondent.

      The establishment has much more to be worried about. Get the finger oot and start doing something about it.

      More teeth less gum!

    117. Lesley-Anne says:

      galamcennalath says:

      Keep the faith! As Margo MacDonald said, each Yes supporter only has to convert one other person and we win in September!

      I agree gala, we must keep our faith well fuelled and don’t lose focus on the big prize, independence. Yes we would all love to see no UKIP M.E.P.’s in Scotland and I still hope that is the case, however if the worst case scenario happens then that is not the end of the world.

      We must always remember that tonight’s vote results come from people having multiple choices on who to vote for, in September the electorate have only a choice of two options YES or NO. This will be a much more straightforward choice and I still believe we will win in September.

      As gala says peeps, keep the faith, we ARE winning the BIG question and we WILL win in September everything else is, in my view, a secondary issue.

    118. bookie from hell says:

      SNP can still get the 3rd

      on knife edge

    119. Paula Rose says:

      Concentrate on the don’t knows, search out the disillusioned who vote UKIP – we can do this.

    120. Thomas Valentine says:

      So that “journalist” claims that a town larger than Stirling would have to appear EVERY year.
      BOLLOCKS! Sweaty slime covered cheesy BOLLOCKS.

    121. Liquid Lenny says:

      Suppose on the bright side the rise of UKIP in the UK can only help us achieve a YES vote.

    122. Murray McCallum says:

      call me dave

      Yes it would appear LibDems could not bring themselves to vote SNP, or even pro-Yes Green.

      UKIP are still a minority vote in Scotland whereas they seem rampant in England & Wales

    123. Peter says:

      Don’t trust the bbcukip percentages. Across Scotland they’ve got parties losing 6.55% but gaining 10.72%. Spreadsheets are not that difficult to use. No excuses for being so sloppy.

    124. Harry says:

      Justin Ross re the 94,000. I read recently that the Daily Mail sells 100,000 in Scotland. That may be your answer.

    125. call me dave says:

      Aye this 6th seat is so close it’s looking like a Monday Morning result from the Hebrides. Blank score card till then I think.

      Lib/dems are toast and Clegg is also feeling the heat. He may be gone by Monday along with Terry Butcher. 😉

    126. goldenayr says:


      This is only an EU vote.

      Saying that,just listened to Wee Wullie Hague and The London horseshit.

      Perhaps,as was intimidated to me that,Faslane would be destroyed on Trident exit,we should take care.

    127. rab_the_doubter says:

      Agreed Paula. Its likely that in Scotland the UKIP vote is a protest vote by ill-informed people, given the amount of coverage handed to UKIP this is not a surprise. We ned to get the message out there that UKIP will not represent their interests. Another thing, we need to ensure that UKIP has no voice in the Referendum.

    128. Justin Ross says:

      Harry, spot on..,.except I don’t think Mail readers can really “read”..they just look at the pictures ;D

    129. X_Sticks says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      “how much space would they occupy?”

    130. bunter says:

      Could it be that some of our more uninformed voters saw UKIP and thought it was independence from the UK?

      I know, clutching at straws.

    131. Nana Smith says:

      @call me Dave

      Well as someone who once[long time ago]lived in Lewis I hope the people I grew up with have some sense.

    132. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I don’t watch telly, so I’m not sure WTF is going on here, but IF it’s true that the people of Greece have voted to have neo-Nazis represent them in Brussels, and IF it’s true that UKIP are going to ‘represent’ Scots in any shape or form, I don’t know what else is required before people shake themselves awake, get off their big fat armchairs, and start doing something about it.

      Yeah, okay, me, usual, SSP, blahdy-blahdy blah, but, hey, what-evs: just get out there and dae sumthin, eh?

      No excuses acceptable – if you’re a true-blue Scottish Tory, get out there, and let us all hear you. If you’re a fervent Green? Likewise. WFI, LFI, no matter – start shouting people. Shout for your corner, hold it, and be prepared for all-comers.

      We’ll have this ‘debate’ on our own terms. Not those dictated by the discredited, untrustworthy BBC and their MSM affiliates. And on our terms? UKIP will vanish like snow off a dyke.

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      Murray McCallum
      I think it was the Rev.’s most recent poll that suggested LibDems in Scotland, are more conservative than those voting Conservative.

      Was there actually still doubt over Curtice’s true colours?

    134. Dcanmore says:

      Remember folks when talking about how many people who vote for abysmal rightwing parties in Scotland, there must be at least a couple of hundred thousand going by the circulation of the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Scotsman newsapers… hate the SNP, hate Europe, hate democracy. It will be Labour voters that will ultimately deliver independence for Scotland and as it stands 27% (and growing) of them will say YES.

    135. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      No. Curtice has been blindingly obvious for at least 20 years.

    136. westie7 says:


      Yup, the percentages are odd and There is something odd with the rolling updates on the BBCScotland page, time line all over the place, changing, comments appearing and disappearing

    137. Barontorc says:

      UKIP/BBC wake up call to Scotland!

    138. caz-m says:

      This just shows how pathetic a position Scotland is in.

      The Majority elected First Minister of Scotland is powerless to stop the bias reporting given to one particular Party from a broadcaster not based in Scotland.

      Dimbleby interviewing Farage, the more I hear these two talking, the more I am convinced that it is Dimbleby who is the UKIP fanatic. Thus, leading to all these BBC interviews over the last year.

    139. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just thinking about what you are saying there rab about the UKIP vote being a protest vote. I’m wondering if those, in my view, daft enough to vote for UKIP in Scotland are doing so as a protest against the Tories and Lib Dems not realising that neither party has any say in the running of Holyrood.

    140. Training Day says:



      Mencken said that no one ever got poor by underestimating the stupidity of the public.

    141. Piemonteis says:

      I can’t believe there’s people here given Green voters a kicking, because they took a vote from the SNP. People voted Green because they wanted a Green MEP. Seems fair enough to me!

      By the same logic, we can easily have a go at SNP voters, since if 3% of SNP voters had voted Green, we’d have 2xSNP, 2xLab, 1xCon and 1XGREEN.

      The best form of democracy is when you vote for the party you want to win. Well done to those people.

    142. goldenayr says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Deaf ears on here.

    143. bunter says:

      BBC drones all first name terms with a racist. Who remembers when Blair and Broon was in power and the BBC wouldn’t even mention the word immigration.

    144. Dcanmore says:

      I wish Nick Robinson would stop masturbating over UKIP.

    145. goldenayr says:


      A vehicle takes you to your destination.

    146. call me dave says:

      Nana Smith

      I’m sure they have returned a good result.

      I quite like Terry Butcher I want to add.

      My cousin in Sheffield (visiting him in February) a lib/dem was looking very glum and disillusioned. Going back to labour he said.

    147. graeme kerr says:

      just imagine the greens were getting the same press as ukip! instead of having all the protest votes clamouring for border controls, they’d all be clamouring for clean tech and sustainable living!

    148. Tam Jardine says:

      I am exasperated by this 10%. Anybody who has voted to get a guy like David Coburn to represent us is either feebleminded or suffering from a delusion that the problems we face in Scotland would be solved by locking us in with the rest of the UK in glorious isolation.

      Who would you rather have looking after your interests in Europe? Maggie Chapman or Tasmina both would have been great, but Coburn? Really? Another unhinged paranoid maniac like Griffin.

      AS was on fire – he can tear apart guys like the Professor and Dimbleby without effort. The Professor cut a fairly abject figure – the lighting maybe wasn’t doing him any favours.

      His reputation is really taking a nosedive these days.

    149. bookie from hell says:

      UKIP hav won 6th seat

      don’t blame green or SNP ,blame those who failed to vote

    150. Peter says:

      The Greens do need to be blamed. It’s going to come down to a few thousand votes and they’ve done it again with their dishonest campaign. Just like the 2nd vote Green strategy which buggered up the PR element of the Parliament elections.

    151. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Depressed now.

    152. goldenayr says:

      bookie from hell


    153. goldenayr says:

      Dimbelby totally disillusioned.

    154. Kev says:

      Ukip now have nearly 140,000 votes in Scotland, utterly shameful stuff. Looks like 5% of Libdem voters have defected to Labour and UKIP have benefitted from the 5% jump in turnout since the last election – what has pushed these extra voters out to the polling booths I wonder? surely nothing to do with the blanket coverage this MP-less party has been given by the State broadcaster over the last few years.

    155. Kenny says:

      As much as I find UKIP to be pretty awful, there are three points to make:

      1. Don’t blame Green voters. There was a real prospect of getting a Green MEP and that would have been better for the referendum campaign than another SNP one.

      2. Don’t just assume that UKIP voters are all racist bastards. Some will genuinely believe that the EU is bad for Britain and/or Scotland. There are people who buy Farage’s story that SNP independence is not independence at all. Being Eurosceptical is not an intrinsically wrong position and it’s a mistake to assume it’s all just scumbags who aren’t real Scots or any such nonsense. If anything, a UKIP vote shows where we’ve failed in letting people see the flaws in UKIP’s approach.

      3. Fuck the BBC. Farage on the Edinburgh QT was the turning point for me. Galloeay at least provided a “Scotsman abroad” perspective and he’s good box office. Farage on there but Patrick Harvie frozen out of most BBC media, much less given a fair shake of Euro coverage, is just absurd and as Dimbleby’s comments that night showed, the BBC does not care about balance in Scotland. That wasn’t even a Yes/No balance. It was just a rejection of balance on Scottish politics, period.

    156. Training Day says:

      The likelihood that UKIP have won a Scottish seat is the last straw for me.

      Good luck to those of you who remain.

    157. Peter says:

      And the lib dems look like escaping with at least one MEP in the SE of england region. Very close to being wiped out. Could still happen!

    158. Barontorc says:

      There is gross political manipulation going on and the BBC is bang front and center. I sincerely hope that the Scottish Government and YES are now getting into the assertive mode.

      I’m not talking about the folly of wrestling with the pigs, etc., but there must be serious legal and human rights issues coming to the fore.

    159. Thepnr says:

      I’m a bit surprised, must admit thought it a cert that SNP would get 3 seats.

      So what have I learned? Maybe the polls are right, maybe we have to get in peoples faces a bit more.

      I’m not worried though at all, the turnout is important and compared to what the turnout will be in the referendum, this means little.

      C’mon folks UKIP taking first place. That’s a result we should celebrate! I know my fellow Scots will not embrace this. Get in there with the head down. Start the fight back FFS.

    160. Paula Rose says:

      We who care about people should vote SNP to please who exactly? A vote for Green is never wasted – we are a party that supports a Yes vote.

    161. Justin Ross says:

      Peter Kelner, head of YouGov (and Labour Party member and husband of Catherine Ashton) said earlier on the BBC that Labour would win the most votes in Scotland. What happened to that? Does that mean that YouGov’s polls are very innacurate, or Labour/Unionist biased? Just saying

    162. liz says:

      Sky news reporting. Scotland, Con 1, Lab 2, SNP 2, UKIP 1.

    163. Lesley-Anne says:

      Come on peeps, keep your chin up!

      Yes no one wants a UKIP M.E.P. from Scotland but seriously will he be able to do much damage? I only ask because, in my view, it is in England that the damage has been done, one solitary M.E.P. will not, in my view, alter things by any great amount.

      Am I happy about having a UKIP M.E.P. you can bet your bottom dollar I’m not!

      Am I concerned about having a UKIP M.E.P. no not really.

      Do I think this UKIP M.E.P. will have an effect in September I’m pretty sure it will, but nothing like the effect the massive number of English UKIP M.E.P.’s will have.

      Am I concerned about winning the referendum in September NO I’m not. In my view this incredible night of results for UKIP will undoubtedly result in a win for YES in September!

    164. Castle Rock says:

      Looks like a Tory\UKIP coalition ruling Scotland from Westminster in 2015 if we don’t vote Yes.

      If that dosen’t waken people up then nothing will.

    165. Justin Ross says:

      Gutted that that creep Coburn seems to have won a seat, but just as the BNP MEP’s in England have been wiped out after everyone saw what they were like in the full glare of publicity, Coburn will shoot himself in the foot and everywhere else and ensure he’s Scotland’s first and last UKBlip MEP

    166. Marcia says:

      From our James Kelly:

      SNP is getting exactly the same share of the vote in Scotland as UKIP are in UK. You wouldn’t know that from listening to the BBC.

    167. Training Day says:

      Get real, the UKIP ‘ Scottish’ MEP will be spun to death by the BBC until 18 Sept.

      And you know what the really scary thing is? It doesn’t need to be spun. ‘Scots’ have voted for them.

    168. Thepnr says:

      This result is all about the publicity given to Fromagge and UKIP. What that tells me is GET VISIBLE. Make a support Yes look normal.

      Don’t fret, we will win. But you have to do your duty.

    169. caz-m says:

      I hope a lot of Greens are not closet UKIP voters. The same goes for Lib/Dems.

      It just seems to be a bit unusual for UKIP to get such a large percentage of the vote in Scotland.

      Dark forces at work?

    170. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The ploy to run UKIP in the media in Scotland to frustrate the SNP looks like it has worked.

    171. Dcanmore says:

      If UKIP have an MEP in Scotland then BBC Scotland will have him up front and centre on our screens to bash the SNP, another mouthpiece with a stick for the BBC to promote.

    172. Alba4Eva says:

      Paula, I have plenty of Green sympathies… indeed, you can’t stick a fag packet between SNP and Green core principles.

      But the proof is in the pudding… Greens scored Nil.

    173. liz says:

      Even though the Greens and SNP vote split probably allowed UKIP in, both voters for these parties will be Yes.

      Does anyone have an idea of the % vote difference between SNP and Lab?

      The usual suspects, Inverclyde and Fife had Lab ahead.

    174. Jill P says:

      I’m not one to swear when putting my thoughts to print, but I’ll make an exception tonight.

      For FUCK’s Sake!!!

      Are the population of Scotland so blind that they think UKIP could ever represent a fair Scotland? It would seem to if the idiot, racist bastard UKIP David Coburn is now an MEP representing Scotland.

      To quote Jackson Browne in March 2003 “Not in my name!”

    175. Ravelin says:

      People should vote for who they want to vote for as in most circumstances we can never know the outcome of tactical voting beforehand. In any case, what tactical voting one way or the other wouldn’t have changed is that 140k people in Scotland would still have voted UKIP. Let’s just be glad they are on 10% and not the 30% they are getting elsewhere in the UK.

    176. HandandShrimp says:

      It is a tad worrying that UKIP look to have won comprehensively down south. It was always going to be tight getting three seats. 50% of the vote was big ask and labour were never going to pick up that mantle so we were really relying on the Liberal vote to go to the Greens. It looks like they have gone to Labour instead. Not a lot we can do about that. 34% turn out? Shocking given the stakes.

      However, UKIP have won in England and only England. They are fourth here assuming that is how the cards fall and the Greens don’t get a lift from Liberal voters from some of the last regions to count.

    177. westie7 says:

      This needs to be a kick up the arse for everyone who wants a Yes vote, no molly coddling or comforting words. We need to echo Margo’s ideal, everyone convert one

    178. rab_the_doubter says:

      I suppose theres something to be said for the fact that as usual for a Euro vote, turnout is low (although higher than normal at 35% or so). I would expect at least a 75% turnout at the referendum.

      What does this tell me – that 50% of the people likely to vote in the referendum are not really interested in Euro Elections and ae possible undecideds, also, this is giving us no idea of the possible voting intentions of the 16 – 17 year old vote.

      Would be an interesting poll question – did you vote in the Euro election? These are the people we need to be speaking to and encouraging.

    179. No no no...yes says:

      Dimblebum put it to farage that he could hold the balance of power after the 2015 general election,and even he looked surprised. We need to remember Yes is for snp, green, labour and anyone else who wants the best for our country. We need to accept tonight is about Proportional Representation and look forward together to the biggest prize of all.

      Inspired by Alex S. getting the gloves off and hope to see this repeated on Reporting Scotland later!!

    180. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Morag Graham Kerr –

      Don’t you DARE get ‘depressed’!

      Sorry, but that’s an absolute nah nah nah nah nah nah, no way.

      We’ve crossed swords in our time pal, but you’ve never ever said anything like that before – please, please, don’t let this aberrant shite get to you.

      All we’re seeing is a fair reflection of MSM power. You knew it might happen, as did we all. The belters who voted for UKIP would not, if captured last Thursday, been able to articulate a coherent case for doing so. Those same people, tomorrow, might struggle to remember who they voted for at all.

      Winners tonight? The Daily Mail/Express/Sun/Record.

      Does that in any way dent our chances of winning on Sept 18th?

    181. Thepnr says:

      I no longer give a shit about “parties” and neither should you. Get yer boots on and start marching for a YES vote.

      If this result gets you down just think hgow you’ll feel on 19th Sepotember.

      It’s there to be won, you will win it for Scotland. UKIP on 29% of the vote? FFS.

      Get the finger out.

    182. Peter says:

      This is the first time ever an opposition has not come top in the Euro elections in the UK. Even Hague and Howard managed it. The Government always loses.

      Except in Scotland where the Government has won the last two.

      Of course Scotland is in no way, size, shape or form any different to England!

      Fuck the bbbc!

    183. Liquid Lenny says:


      No it is not dark forces, its wall to wall BBC advertising for them, and I know quite a few English born people now living in Scotland who are UKIP voters.

      We are in an economic depression, history tells us that in economic depressions people move to the right of the political spectrum. We are witnessing this throughout Europe tonight. Given that only a very small minority of Scots (Whether new or old) have voted for a right wing party we should not get too depressed. (Although I admit that my first reaction was indeed depression and shame)

      Hopefully the Western Isles will save the day.

    184. Dcanmore says:

      Dimblebot cannot hide his glee at UKIP success

    185. Justin Ross says:

      Why have the BBC just listed Scotland’s MEP’s as Labour 2, SNP 2, Conservatives 1 and UKIP 1? The SNP clearly won the most votes? Just blind refusal to recognize the SNP anytime they have to? Smells funny

    186. Indigo says:

      Feel physically sick at Scotland electing Coburn, but if a UKIP vote galvanises a Yes vote it may not be a bad thing (trying soooo heard to find a silver lining)

    187. call me dave says:

      Statistically looks like UKip have got a seat…Oh wait!
      BBC have just announced it’s official on Radio 5 news.

      Naughtie discusses it now saying, wait it’s not official but is being told by the other presenter, naw it’s true!

      Very surprisingly in Scotland!

    188. James123 says:

      @Justin Ross
      Peter Kelner, head of YouGov (and Labour Party member and husband of Catherine Ashton) said earlier on the BBC that Labour would win the most votes in Scotland. What happened to that? Does that mean that YouGov’s polls are very innacurate, or Labour/Unionist biased? Just saying

      Was just about to say the same thing, he predicted with some confidence that Labour would win claiming that it was some indication of what would happen in the referendum. WRONG! And by 3%, tells you all you need to know about him.

    189. Training Day says:

      Scots can’t be bothered making a statement three months out from an independence referendum. Pitiful stuff.

      The Catalans must look at us and despise us.

    190. Justin Ross says:


      Exactly James! “Expert” Kellner is on again just now. Always thought his involvement with YouGov might be a bit iffy. Maybe explains their polls always favoring NO

    191. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just one thing to remember cmd, the Western Isles do NOT start their count until tomorrow so how anyone can say definitively that UKIP has the sixth seat is rather bizarre in my view. Aftert all the BBC’s Emily Maitland said the count between the UKIP and SNP third seat was extremely close so a good Western isles result tomorrow could very well turn the seat back over to the SNP.

      Keep the FAITH!

    192. call me dave says:

      Margaret Curran is already on crowing about Labour piling on 5% and the SNP losing to UKip!

      Didn’t take her long. Only a unifying party UK can defeat Ukip!

      Polls indicate better together will win and labour in Scotland have the answer through a Scottish parliament and the union.

    193. Mosstrooper says:

      If you want Scottish independence and at this time you voted for any party other than the SNP you are in need of a reality check. All that has happened is that the UKIP have been allowed to get in. I also doubt that that UKIP’s victory in England will have a negative effect in Scotland. The BBC will see to it that they will get even more publicity via the treacherous MSM. The battle just got that bit harder to win.

      This was the time for tactical voting to achieve the end game.

    194. goldenayr says:

      The results aren’t out yet.

    195. CameronB Brodie says:

      I have always voted SNP, for one single issue. Just saying.

      If this is all that it takes to set folk off to the bathroom cabinet, please tell me now. I assure you I have better things to do with my time. Or should be doing.

    196. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Ian, I know you’re right but that’s the point. UKIP snuck that seat because of wall-to-wall promotion by the Beeb (and wall-to-wall demonisation of the SNP combined with ignoring the Greens completely).

      Have you any plans to produce a different, fair, unbiassed BBC within the next two weeks? Their balance in the regulated period for the Euros was nonexistent. Why will it be any better for the referendum? It’s all to play for. They’ll do what they like, secure in the knowledge that they won’t be called to account for it until after the vote and then it won’t matter.

    197. our fllow annie says:

      Indigo – me too,what went wrong, unionists should be thoroughly ashamed.

    198. Marcia says:

      call me dave

      I think she is bonkers, it is the LD who lost a seat to UKIP.

    199. Murray McCallum says:

      Am i right in saying that in rUK UKIP came 1st and Tories came 2nd.

      That’s pretty worrying for Scottish Labour voters, isn’t it?

    200. Training Day says:


      Thank God, a voice a realism amidst the bubble of stupidity on here tonight.

    201. call me dave says:

      Never heard Danny Alexander so depressed when talking, but he at least admitted it was really bad for lib/dems.

      I said earlier Clegg might go but I think he will go.

      Official result: your right I’ll wait until the fat lady sings, I’m very disappointed but not downhearted.

    202. Justin Ross says:

      Farage’s constant mentioning of our “people’s army” is pretty disturbing

    203. Lesley-Anne says:

      call me dave says:

      Margaret Curran is already on crowing about Labour piling on 5% and the SNP losing to UKip!

      If I were Margaret Curran I’d just shut the **** up, even better I’d check the change in voting percentages. From what I’ve seen over here the S.N.P. have HELD their share of the vote so no one has left the SNP to vote Labour, stick THAT in your pipe Curran. The only reason Labour vote is up is because it appears voters have left the Lib Dems and voted Labour, nothing more nothing less!

      As far as the increase of the UKIP vote is concerned I agree with others here this is obviously as a result of the increase in the electorate voting, nothing more nothing less!

    204. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Lets get this into context.

      This was not a vote on Independence. The fact that the SNP got most votes after the last eighteen months of continuous medai attack is terrific.

      Many of those who voted Labour, LibDem and even some Tories on Thursday will be voting YES in September. It is no accident that Labour for Indy has been quiet on the YES front until the Euro vote is out of the way.

      Game on now.

      PS The Record gave Tasmina lots of coverage and hammered UKIP. The BBC (with the Mail and the Express) are the major culprits

    205. geeo says:

      6th seat extremely close.
      NOT official yet.
      Mean anything for september ?
      Look at england, anyone reckon farage will be next PM after the GE ?

    206. Justin Ross says:

      Don’t forget folks, UKIP’s share of the vote here is by far the smallest percentage of all the countries and regions in the UK. They’re still a minority and just scraped it.

    207. Thepnr says:

      I have to laugh, now I’ve thought about it this is a good result for the chances of a Yes vote in the referendum.

      Before you think I’m mad I want you to consider who actually went out and voted? Yes the usual suspects, middle class such as teachers, accountants, lawyers and doctors. They would have been in the majority and the less well off never bother with the EU.

      It is a wake up call though, still gobsmacked that a UKIPper could win in Scotland, just shows the state of our feeling with Westminster.

      Let’s turn that to our advantage, no one trusts Westminster anymore that much is obvious. Work as hard as you can with those closest to you to persuade them why Yes is best.

      You know it’s true, then shout it out. We cannot afford to be shy.

    208. westie7 says:

      So what is the criteria for that 6th place, how many % points req?

    209. HandandShrimp says:

      I would agree that the BBC have given UKIP an enormous leg up. Farage is never off the box and it is always a jolly easy going exchange.

      No idea what Curran is on about. Labour are not doing all that well in this election. If she thinks that Ed will take No 10 with 25% of the vote then she is off her trolley.

    210. caz-m says:

      Liquid Lenny

      I know a few Englishmen who were voting UKIP. I didn’t pay much attention to them because I thought the SNP would out vote them. Proved very wrong.

      UKIP in Scotland = Orangemen, Majority of Englishmen, Extreme right wing Rangers fans and voters who say they vote for a certain Party but vote for UKIP instead.

    211. Lesley-Anne says:

      It’s nothing to do with actual percentage points westie, I think you’ll understand better if you look here.

      Basically it is all to do with the number of votes not percentage of vote share. Watch the video I think Jeremy Vine explains it quite well. 😉

    212. goldenayr says:

      A lot of folk on here basing their defence on a UKIP victory.

      Are you all beeeb believers?

    213. goldenayr says:


      Calm doon lass.

    214. No no no...yes says:

      I recall labour for Indy appealling for labour voters to vote labour in the EU elections, which is fair enough. As long as they return to the Yes fold later today!

      Ed Miliband’s One Nation is dead. Margaret Curran is off her head-she hates the SNP and her Bitter and Twisted message is backfiring and will help secure more yes votes.

      Danny Alexander on now talking his usual nonsense,”i’m proud of our campaign, wake up call, blah blah, we are not wrong..”

      Emily Maitless adamant bbc forecast Ukip will get 1 Scottish seat, nothing like being objective then.

    215. Onwards says:

      That’s a good point.
      It is indeed labour voters who can deliver a YES.

      That said, it will need around 50% of them to vote for independence, going on these results.
      Although turnout is likely to be much higher in the referendum.

      I think it is time to start going on the attack more.
      The positive campaign alone needs to start showing results soon.

    216. goldenayr says:

      No no no…yes

      Don’t forget the beeb can make it happen.

    217. Alba4Eva says:

      I am gutted if we don’t get the 3 MEPs, but fully agree with you Dave McEwan Hill… For the SNP to be the sitting government for 7 years and still be the most popular and largest party after the last 12 months is a stunning result. Also, not losing any ground, vote share wise.

      Not getting the 3 gives the MSM an excuse I would rather they didn’t have… and thats not even taking the UKIP seat in, if it happens.

      On the other hand, the UKIP gain might be a wake up call to the Scottish Electorate… Is that the phony war now over? …This might just be the starting gun on the referendum proper.

    218. caz-m says:

      Danny Alexander looks pissed.

    219. Lesley-Anne says:

      Emily Maitless adamant bbc forecast Ukip will get 1 Scottish seat, nothing like being objective then.

      I wonder if she can recall how long UKIP have had a UKIP shop/office in the Western Isles…3 DAYS! I also wonder if she believes, as Dimblebum does, that UKIP is the greatest thing since sliced bread in English politics and as such will deliver a resounding victory in the Western Isles?

    220. HandandShrimp says:


      I think UKIP victory is a tad strong… we are waiting to see if they have squeaked 6th place out of 6. This was always a danger if the Liberals crashed and burned. The Liberals have really crashed and burned.

      I think this will be a high water mark for UKIP though. They have a lot of loose cannons and I think the deck is going to be a dangerous place to be in that party. The chap in Scotland that looks likely to get a seat is more detested within his own party than anywhere else (mainly because nobody else has a clue who he is).

    221. caz-m says:

      I don’t know the exact percentage, but was there not a lot of YES voters who are also want out of Europe?

    222. goldenayr says:

      Beeb coverage going for London only…surprise,surprise.

    223. Training Day says:

      @ caz-m

      Careful. You’ll bust the bubble of political correctness on here which says that our UKIP voters aren’t from Clydebank.

    224. HandandShrimp says:

      One thing we can make very clear to the electorate over the coming 3 months. Better Together are not offering no change. The UK is going through major changes.

      Better Together would not let UKIP join their campaign because of their political views. They cannot turn round and say this is not a problem.

    225. Mary Bruce says:

      I’m concentrating on the positives: SNP won, the unionists were insisting that it would be a Labour victory even as the results came in.

      And Labour came 3rd across the UK; the chances of there being a Tory govt after 2015 just increased dramatically. Or worse a Tory/UKIP coalition. We need to emphasise this to Labour voters on the doorstep, this will swing many to yes, previous polls have confirmed it.

      For a neo-liberal future vote no, for a social-democracy vote yes. The message couldn’t be simpler.

    226. goldenayr says:


      The UKIP voters are the diehard unionist and disaffected political”whats a vote?”.

    227. Jamie Arriere says:

      Looking for crumbs of comfort, and found a few :

      1] UKIP got their MEP, but not the two as Farage was hinting at a week ago. Indeed they actually scraped it, with barely over 10% of a low turnout in what is their key election

      2] MEPs once elected are usually totally ignored (Don’t think I’ve ever seen Alyn Smith or Ian Hudghton on TV at all outwith campaigning periods). So we’ll possibly see or hear very little of Mr Coburn. Unless of course BBC Scotland give him his own chat show.

      3] The main thing is UKIP topped the poll down south, and are building themselves up to be a major factor at Westminster. That should concentrate minds up here as regards a Tory/UKIP combined force against a feeble-looking Labour party.

    228. Dcanmore says:

      There’s a big difference between the Euro elections and the forthcoming referendum, the turn out for the Euros is about 32% where the referendum will be 80% plus.

      Low turn out elections always let the loonies in hence the BNP five years ago, now it is UKIPs turn. The Tories and Labour will now offer a Euro referendum without question to try a stifle a UKIP vote next year. Expect wall to wall coverage of UKIP/Europe issues by the BBC over the next 12 months, it makes a good distraction from what the Tories are doing and what the BBC/MSM refuse to report on.

    229. Lesley-Anne says:

      Anyone who doesn’t know who the possible UKIP M.E.P. is well let me introduce you to him!—3464384

      Coburn is on the Left hand side, what a nice chap…NOT!

    230. Kenny says:

      Don’t be surprised if some of those UKIP voters and some of the other parties too are Yes voters. There’s no reason why pro-indy people have to be pro-Europe. Also, let’s be pleased that the vote went up. However it happened, people are more engaged than five years ago. That has to be a good thing.

      Come on! I’m just trying not to be too upset!

    231. Dcanmore says:

      Dimblebot trying to say it was SNP campaigners that hounded Farage in Edinburgh, prick!

    232. X_Sticks says:

      Dismayed and embarrassed that anyone in Scotland could vote for UKIP at all.

      The full weight of blame lies squarely with the bbc. Absolutely no quarter for them from here on in. I hope bbc Scotland is proud of it’s vote UKIP campaign. They will pay a price for this.

      Note to self – must now redouble efforts for Yes vote.

    233. HandandShrimp says:


      I think that is probably fair. I am pretty lukewarm about the EU but I want nothing to do with UKIP or their politics. I just don’t think Scotland gets all that good a deal out of the EU and people like Barosso and Rompuy have gone out of their way to belittle Scotland.

      I wouldn’t weep if we left. I would not have a problem with EU people working here though.

      Scrapping the last seat is not an endorsement of their politics, and more an outcome of the mathematics resulting from the death of the Liberal party.

    234. Training Day says:

      Brian Taylor bigging up UKIP and slagging Salmond.

      Where were you on the night of 5 May 2011 Brian? Why did you get the night off? We await an explanation.

    235. The Man in the Jar says:

      I don’t blame the greens or the undecideds. I will blame any independence supporters that didn’t bother their arses and go out and vote if they could.

      Do they realise that they have just handed a big UKIP shaped stick for BT, BBC and MSM to beat Yes Scotland and all who support independence with.

      I am wondering what the final turn out figure will be.

    236. Lesley-Anne says:

      Dcanmore says:

      Dimblebot trying to say it was SNP campaigners that hounded Farage in Edinburgh, prick!

      I also noticed Nick Robertson seems to be rather put out that the First Minister had a go at the BBC for their wall to wall coverage of Farage. 😛

    237. No no no...yes says:

      Brian Taylor bbc, now also self outed as anti snp. Its Snp failure to keep ukip out as they forecast. Saying unionists will be happy snp did not get 3 seats and this could slow snp momentum. Better Together more happy to shaft Scotland, rather than looking at the big picture. We need out of this!

    238. call me dave says:

      The other thing to put into the pot is that in the referendum the % vote will be at least double that of today’s vote in Scotland. So all to play for.

      As for Curran: She has to play the the labour game, because they have no choice but to hype the pooling and sharing idea. Also there are unionist MP’s like her who will be redundant if it’s a YES.

      SNP polled almost the same % of votes as last time which was a good performance for the sitting government.


      Naughtie discussing who will be the EU replacement for the present incumbent Jose Manuel Barroso.

      Answer ..who knows, it’s all up for grabs now in Europe.

    239. charlie says:

      not going to blame greens for voting green _but_ I would have voted green in west midlands but knew from opinion polls they wouldn’t get near a seat so didn’t vote for them voted labour, because only party close to my views (and mainly on an historical basis) of the 12 twelve, mainly nutty parties
      a scottish green vote is an independence vote to be postive

    240. Dcanmore says:

      @Training Day …

      no he wasn’t bigging up UKIP, and he was only mentioning the SNP as missing their target, so I don’t agree with your comment there. Dimblebot and Robinson are bigging up UKIP and knifing Salmond.

    241. Dcanmore says:

      In any recent elections low turnouts harm the SNP.

    242. Murray McCallum says:

      I trust David Coburn will now start to wrestle leadership of the No campaign away from Darling and Alexander.

      UKIP support better together, it’s only fair they have their say.

    243. The Man in the Jar says:


      So that is Coburn. I have seen him on TV he is a pompous loathsome creature. No doubt we will be seeing a lot more of him. Aye a lot more!

    244. goldenayr says:

      No no no…yes

      Taylor came out as a no on his prog three weeks ago.

      An audience member remarked that voting YES was tantamount to treason.

      Taylors reply was,and I quote.

      “This is what we want”

      Nuff said.

    245. caz-m says:

      SNP and YES really need to start naming and shaming BBC Scotland at every opportunity from now on.

      They have been far to soft on them for far too long.

      Shower of smug bastards sittin in that BBC studio in London.

    246. goldenayr says:

      charlie says:
      not going to blame greens for voting green _but_ I would have voted green in west midlands but knew from opinion polls they wouldn’t get near a seat so didn’t vote for them voted labour, because only party close to my views (and mainly on an historical basis) of the 12 twelve, mainly nutty parties
      a scottish green vote is an independence vote to be positive


    247. caz-m says:

      @ goldenayr

      calm doon lass???????

    248. call me dave says:

      Naughtie now talks to Brian T. about Ukip in Scotland.

      “It’s a big deal Brian is it not”.

      Brian suggests nobody in the other parties wanted UKip but union parties would rather UKip with 1 seat than SNP with 3 seats. Brian also hints that SNP have lost the momentum.


      50%+ turnout in parts of London hence the delay in declarations.

    249. goldenayr says:


      You been drinking my red wine?

    250. Training Day says:


      Maybe you need to listen more closely to Taylor. He was desperate to big up UKIP.

      How long do we have to maintain the pretence that BBC reporters are in any way impartial?

    251. Democracy Reborn says:

      Folks, let’s put things into a bit of calm perspective. As some other posters have already said:-

      1. The SNP have HELD their share of the vote (29%). That is fairly remarkable for a govt that’s been in power for 7 years.

      2. The SNP are once more first place, Labour second on 26%. Compared to 2009 (height of credit crunch, banks going tits up, expenses scandal, crash Gordon as PM), the Labour vote was only going to go one way – up. Their increased share is 5%. A sweeping endorsement of Ed in in one of his ‘heartlands’?

      3. We need to be bit wary about too many generalisations : overall Scottish turnout is about 33%.

      4. Although BBC & Sky are predicting one Scottish UKIP seat, the indications are the battle is very close. The Western Isles don’t count until Monday.

      5. We need 50% +1. The SNP and Green vote can largely be taken as Yes. These Euro elections are not a reflection on how the referendum will go. A Yes vote was always going to depend on voters from other parties, particularly Labour. Indications currently are that 25%+ of Labour voters are Yes. The campaign has to focus on them between now & Sept. Tonight is another illustration for Scot Labour voters, as if it were needed, that ED IS NOT GOING TO WIN IN 2015. Although London results still to fully come in, Labour & Tories are almost neck & neck. And UKIP are first – who are UKIP voters going to go for in 2015 if they feel strongly about a referendum & who is promising to deliver it? – the Tories. The message needs to be hammered again & again to Labour voters that the only chance of getting a govt they want is independence.

      Keep the faith.
      (By the way, Brian Taylor is a tit. Despite SNP coming first, holding their vote, all he wanted to talk about was how, if UKIP do win a seat, it would adversely impact upon AS & the prospects of a Yes vote).

    252. HandandShrimp says:

      Brian Taylor is a No…always has been. I’m shocked that he thinks Better Together would sooner a UKIP seat than a third SNP seat though. A lot of Labour activists won’t see it like that. Obviously they would have liked Labour to have the third seat but they will be as mortified as we are that UKIP have a toe hold.

      I agree TMIJ – Coburn is not a pleasant chap and his politics would be too much even for right wingers like Rifkind or Forsyth. He has a mouth that will offend many…this may be to our good though.

    253. goldenayr says:

      BtP/Morag et al

      Whit happened to your…

      “All sing fae the same hymn sheet” Horlicks.

    254. CameronB Brodie says:

      As it’s late. 🙂

      Mad World – Hugh Godfrey

      P.S. Jamaica has been independent since 1962. Just saying. 😉

    255. No no no...yes says:

      Golden ayr do you have a link to Brian Taylor’s comment. ?

      Should have guessed by his initials!!

    256. The Man in the Jar says:


      ” the less well off never bother with the EU.”

      “We cannot afford to be shy.”

      Aye but voting is free.

    257. goldenayr says:

      No no no…yes

      I’ll have to dig,but it was the St Andrew gig if I remember and a woman with an Oxford accent who asked the question.

    258. Dcanmore says:

      @ Training Day …

      If you look at my previous posts tonight I’m one of the biggest critics of the BBC and their correspondents, Taylor is obviously a unionist but he wasn’t bigging up UKIP, he was just telling it how it is even if we don’t want to hear it.

      Anyway, this should be a wake up call for Labour voters and the Daily Record as we will be out of Europe in 2017. Time for the YES vote to galvanise progressing into Labour heartlands.

    259. Onwards says:

      Agreed it’s not the Greens to blame, although it was a bad idea for those voting tactically.
      It was well publicised that the 6th seat was a toss-up between SNP / UKIP

      That 10% of Scots voted UKIP is depressing, albeit on a low 33% turnout.

      It’s the Little Englander viewpoint, as much as the anti-European policy.

      Imagine a UK outside the EU with a Tory/UKIP agenda.
      Anyone who things that Scotland would get a good deal must be delusional..

    260. deewal says:

      So can we blow up the fuckin’ TV masts now.
      No country get’s it’s independence from England without a bloody fight.
      Get fuckin’ real.

    261. Training Day says:


      He was bigging up UKIP for his London bosses. Taylor is a diehard Unionist. Stop trying to make excuses for the man. He is utterly and profoundly corrupt.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      Look on the bright side. In the event of a Yes vote, UKIP will need to change their name. At least. I don’t think actual policies will help them any. 🙂

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      All suggestions for a new name welcome, especially those of David Coburn. Obviously. 🙂

    264. goldenayr says:


      Hello Smee,where’s Doris?

    265. goldenayr says:

      No no no…yes

      Been hunting for the St Andrew tapes but they seem to have disappeared on first inspection.

      Time for a deeper dig.

    266. Jill P says:

      Murray, What a wonderful idea.

    267. Piemonteis says:

      Scottish Skier will be the one to ask about this, but:

      Am I right in thinking that YouGov was closest to the result in the Scottish Euro crossbreaks? Survation and ICM had the SNP on 4 seats a couple of times, and all other pollsters consistently had them a fair bit higher than 30%. From what I remember seeing in the weeks up to the vote, YouGov consistently had the SNP much lower (although with Labour and Tories higher).

      Might this be worrying for the referendum polling, if YouGov are shown as most accurate in this case, and they are one of the pollsters with the lowest YES ratings?

    268. goldenayr says:


      Do you eat?

      Do you taste what you eat?

      I only ask because it appears you have no taste buds.otherwise you like the taste of shite judging by the amount you swallow.

    269. Piemonteis says:


      We’re all disappointed by tonight’s result, but it seems some of us have taken it worse than others.

      If you want to indulge in personal insults, go here:

      There’s plenty of people there who are on your level.

    270. geeo says:

      SNP lose 6th seat to ukip will be the slobbering gush.
      Did SNP go from 3 seats down to 2 tonight ?

      Think i need to go learn the new election history…

    271. goldenayr says:


    272. Lesley-Anne says:

      geeo says:

      SNP lose 6th seat to ukip will be the slobbering gush.
      Did SNP go from 3 seats down to 2 tonight ?

      Think i need to go learn the new election history…

      No they didn’t geeo, they only had 2 seats but had a sniff of taking a third. The Green’s also had a sniff of taking one seat as opposed to the SNP’s third seat.

      There also appears to be a wee story that might be developing over the UKIP candidate. Apparently it appears that he may have put false information on his electoral registration form. I wonder if anyone will pick up on this. We could yet see some fireworks or fire balls blowing up UKIP HQ. 😉

    273. goldenayr says:

      Hope your right LA if they do manage to get a seat.

    274. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I am thinking of signing up for Action Direct, may volunteer for The Wet Team.

      Away out to buy some Play Doh to practice with.

    275. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ goldenayr says

      Same hymnbook?

      I am a fully paid up Pagan.

    276. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
      ? Edmund Burke

      35% turnout

      Enough said.

    277. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I am starting early on a bottle of red, for a start anyway.

      So depressing!

      I will get really angry later.

    278. Muscleguy says:

      So then the subs will be gone frae Faslane before March 2010 then? That is the only way they can level Faslane, while they still own it. Once it becomes Scottish only territory they have to ask permission and it isn’t like the site isn’t able to be overviewed or anything, is it?

      Then there are all the nuclear weapons at Coulport and Machrahnish. I doubt they can build bunkers fast enough. So, we hold them hostage until they return Faslane intact.

    279. bigGpolmont says:

      and then take away the number you first thought of

    280. goldenayr says:


      This is what the numpty couldn’t understand.

      If they done what he suggested,it would be an act of war.

    281. goldenayr says:


      At least you’re on the red.

      Don’t do it large quantities…my head hurts.

    282. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I buy good reds not rotgut.

      It is the whites which give me an acid stomach. Champagne is OK but not the shite low quality versions.

    283. Nick Heller says:

      Not scared enough? There is help available…

    284. It would have been nice if Tasmina had won.She will get a seat at some level soon. However from a Yes perspective this is a good result.It spells out clearly that a no vote will take us out of Europe in 2017. If you listen to the dialogue this morning the main stream politicos do not get it. I am tired of them saying they are listening. They are not. There is no indication that they will change their behaviour. There is a difference between welcoming immigrants. I do, and wanting uncontrolled immigration. I do not. In my view I am not alone in that view. The politicians cannot see the difference nor see any way of dealing with this. Either they will or the silent majority will take it out of their hands. This is a warning shot.

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