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The House Of Liars

Posted on May 26, 2015 by

The former Liberal Democrat MP (and also the party’s former Scottish leader, and until just a few weeks ago its UK deputy leader) Sir Malcolm Bruce gave an extraordinary interview to Radio 4’s Today programme this morning about Alistair Carmichael.


The whole thing can be heard here, but the short passage below stood out even in the context of a breathless, furious, scattergun performance that sounded like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

(Today, BBC Radio 4, 26 May 2015)

We’re sure readers will be greatly comforted by the fact that it’s okay for the Secretary of State for Scotland to tell a “brazen lie”, on the grounds that everyone else in the Houses Of Parliament is a liar too, and by the notion that a government minister who’s caught lying to the nation in order to undermine the democratically-elected leader of Scotland is an offence for which the culprit can simply decide their own punishment.

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  1. 26 05 15 11:33

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160 to “The House Of Liars”

  1. Turnip_ghost says:

    My jaw dropped when he said “if we punished every minister, Prime Minister and MP who had lied we’d clear out the House of Conmons pretty quickly”

    In what world, except the world of the political class, is that a problem?!?

  2. ranald says:

    I wonder what lies Malcolm Bruce told. Will he now tell us so that he can draw a line under them and move on?

  3. FiferJP says:

    I think Malcolm also indicated Carmichael didn’t do his job as Secretary of State for Scotland by not even reading the memo he leaked. Memo of a meeting between the Scottish Government and French Ambassador and bumblefanny didn’t even read it? If he did read the memo he’s lying about that too, if he didn’t what was the point of him being Secretary of State?

  4. Neil Mackenzie says:

    The thing is, though, that Alistair Carmichael has not apologised or expressed any kind of regret for keeping his role in the leak secret until after he had been safely re-elected as an MP. He’s not sorry for that, at all. IT WORKED. The subsequent lying paid off and he’s reaping the reward.

  5. heedtracker says:

    But would a “brazen liar” like Carmichael be the member of parliament for Orkney and Shetland, if the voters had known any of this before May 7?

    Hold a by-election, take him to court. He’s also Procurator Fiscal for fcuks sake.

  6. Andy Borland says:

    The havering of a loon!

  7. Seasick Dave says:

    “He must be allowed to get on with the job he was elected to do…”

    The job he was elected to do under false pretences.

    He cheated his way into power.

  8. graeme says:

    To be fair, it’s not like Carmichael lied to the House, just us plebs. So that’s ok in their book.

    If he was going to go I’d have thought the bank holiday weekend would have provided the cover. Seems the Orks and Shets are stuck with him. Poor bastids.

  9. Murray McCallum says:

    The LibDems appear to have staked out the immoral low ground as part of their 2016 Holyrood strategy.

    Let’s see what that brings.

  10. Trying to defend the indefensible is always going to be challenging, but this borders on insanity.

  11. Jim Thomson says:

    After the third attempt at constructing a post .. simply speechless.

  12. G. P. Walrus says:

    Yet if Malcolm Bruce had stood up in the House and called anyone a liar he’d have been suspended for unparliamentary language. If it is a heinous affront to accuse an MP directly of lying, why is it no great problem for an MP to be proven a liar?

  13. Lollysmum says:

    O/T but not really-Sorry Rev

    Orkney & Shetland fundraiser just announced

  14. galamcennalath says:

    Do these people believe the LibDems have fallen as far in seats as is possible? Well, if they keep this up, the WILL fall further! Rather than backing this dispicable behaviour they need to distance themselves.

    BTW, is there any crowdfunding for a legal case on the go? I’ve seen suggestions, but no links.

  15. Donald MacKenzie says:

    If I hadn’t accessed this via such a reputable source at WoS I would have thought someone was trying to wind me up. Surely it can’t get much more farcical than this … can it?

  16. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m taken with the notion that Alistair is noble for staying on and standing up to those horrible SNP bullies (that he tried to smear).

    Crazy stuff but any port in a storm I guess.

  17. Lollysmum says:

    The ‘mother of all parliaments’ supposedly leads the way in showing how democracy works. I think not

  18. Genghis D'Midgies says:

    Quick – Give Malcolm Bruce a Lordship – He has many more lies to tell.

  19. James Barr Gardner says:

    Aye but! This lie was about the First Minister of Scotland by the Secretary of State for Scotland, not forgetting the slur against the French Ambassador.
    This was a setup by tories, liedims played like an auld fiddle if the yellow tories don’t get it that proves that Sur Malky disnae have a fecking clue.
    Yellow, red, blue & purple tories Out of Scotland, roll on 16th May 2016, we will roll them up and roll the out!

  20. N Mackenzie says:

    Just back in the UK, & heard this first thing. I thought that I’d dropped back into a parallel universe!

    The unlamented lamentable Bruce played to old “SNP Bad” card the whole, demented interview. I honestly found it hard to believe.

  21. west wales says:

    Malcolm Bruce reckons that Carmichael has an important job to do to hold the Westminster and Holyrood governments to account. How can he really believe that a politician who got himself elected by smearing and lying has the moral authority to hold other politicians to account?

  22. Snode1965 says:

    Jeezo! What is it with these Liedem politicians?
    Foaming at the mouth insanity, defending a Rob Ford ( Toronto ) clone. To be fair to Ford he cited addiction and temp insanity, maybe AS can too! 🙂

  23. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    FiferJP at 10.40

    “bumblefanny” LOL

  24. One_Scot says:

    The Westminster parliament and UK politics is corrupt to the core. Scotland needs to get out as soon as possible.

  25. chalks says:

    He is slowly but surely losing his mind.

    It wouldn’t surprise me to see that he is one of the few that the police are investigating….the majority are MP’s

  26. chalks says:

    Sorry, ex-MP’s

  27. Madir Mabbott says:

    £10 contributed. The Indiegogo is live…

  28. heedtracker says:

    Carmichael says he’s apologised for “the position I know find myself in” and “gad I still been a Government Minister I would have considered this to be a matter that required my resignation.”

    So whatever any of that means, if you ever get your collar felt, find yourself in the dock and facing a Procurator Fiscals like Carmichael, hit them with all of the above, see if that gets you off the hook.

  29. Tamson says:

    Carmichael will be allowed to survive. If he stays, he becomes a liability for the SLDs, thus helping the Tories in the list vote for Holyrood 2016. It also avoids the risk of him trying to take Mundell down with him. Finally, a by-election would boost the SNP.

    No benefit to the Establishment in cutting him free.

  30. Craig P says:

    I won’t contribute to the fundraiser for legal action, as Carmichael’s continued presence at Westminster is a gift for his opponents.

  31. annie says:

    David Cameron is very quiet on this considering Carmichael was a Minister in his Government when is occurred. Perhaps he has commented since the apology and I have simply missed it.

  32. Today says:

    The decline of the Lib Dems is sad to watch.

    Especially in England, where they got punished for going into coalition with the tories by being replaced by tory MPs! Bizarre!

    As for Scotland, we need a liberal voice what with the SNP’s centralisation, abolition of corroboration, and creation of a national database.

  33. Democracy Reborn says:

    They’ve lied to their own members : Lord Rennard affair

    They’ve lied to the electorate : tuition fees

    They’ve lied to the press : Smeargate

    The Lib Dems : no one left to lie to.

  34. Bob Mack says:

    I never thought I would see a “Catch 22” situation in real life,but there you go.
    Apparently we elect politicians in whom we invest trust and faith to do what is right.
    However ,they seem according to Mr Bruce (I do not recognise titles), determined to lie ,cheat and mislead the electorate who chose them for their honesty,integrity, and promises of a better way of governance .How stupid are we?
    This system must change—–and soon.

  35. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I listened to the Malcolm Bruce interview live and was taken by his totally inchoate arguments. He left open goals, right left and centre and although the BBC interviewer didn’t give him an easy ride but without an working intimacy of the details of Bruce’s deflection arguments she had no way of pinning the bugger down.

    To say that everybody lies in politics was one such which he tried to defend by saying, if you could draw together the drunken spider’s web of his thoughts, that he deserves a second chance because of the other good he had done. I don’t think that would have been a solid defence at Nuremberg, Malky Boy. He tried to compere AC’s malfeasance to that of Nicola Sturgeon who wrote a letter of mitigation for one of her constituents. Nicola got a second chance you see? At that point I was shouting at the radio, you twerp Bruce, “she didn’t lie and smear the First Minister and an foreign Ambassador in the purdah period by concocting a lie and placing it into a fraudulent memo to be circulated to the Media, to save his own bacon?”

    There is some confusion about who is the “civil servant” who wrote the time bomb? Was it a career civil servant or was that a deflective description of Carmichael’s Spad who was technically a “temporary” civil servant and subject to their rules and standards?

    The fact that the inserted paragraph was to something “lost in translation” is interesting as it suggests that the briefing between the French CG and Carmichael was in French? We know that the CG referred to Carmichael as a “friend” when talking to the BBC on his front steps that week-end.

    Carmichael; does speak French and German, so was that we chat in French and the the Spad didn’t follow it precisely and the CG surmised that N S probably would prefer a Tory win rather than a Labour hung parliament. Purely a bit of the conversation which was between friends?

    Finally why did they wait until the run into the GE before it was leaked? Carmichael was bricking it that he would lose his seat. So, a half baked bit of a memorandum was fleshed out and leaked to save his bacon.

    All in all, Carmichael must go, voluntarily or by some judicial procedure?

  36. Pam McMahon says:

    Thanks for the link Lollymum. Sent what I could, and hope many more of us who can afford to will also contribute.

    The publicity of a court action alone will destroy this sad excuse of an elected representative to the sad excuse of democracy that is Westminster.

  37. Luigi says:

    “if we punished every minister, Prime Minister and MP who had lied we’d clear out the House of Conmons pretty quickly”

    The obvious follow up from the interviewer should have been:

    “Have you ever told a lie, Mr Bruce?”

    and watch him splutter.

  38. grahamlive says:

    I think the main problem Bruce and his ilk have, is that the calls for action on this have largely came from social media. They can sort of accept being held to account on their own terms, but when us plebs call for some accountability? Well that just won’t do, will it old boy?

  39. west wales says:

    In the great Commons expenses scandal a few years ago it transpired that Malcolm Bruce had got taxpayers to pay for his household bills at both his London home and his Aberdeenshire home when MPs are only supposed to claim for bills at one residence.

    I suppose Malcolm’s excuse was that everyone else was making dodgy claims, so that made it ok.

  40. Luigi says:

    There’s a nasty big nettle growing here that could get out of control and sting many backsides. Failure to nip this in the bud could lead to a LibDem extinction event in 2016. If they had any sense at all, Carmichael would have already gone. Nettles are nasty and painful, but sometimes they have to be grasped.

  41. Today says:

    So when Salmond lies about having legal advice on EU membership that’s okay? When he uses taxpayers money to create the white paper, a plainly party political document full of falsehoods and lies, that’s okay?

    I know that it was wrong and bad of Carmichael to lie but why is their outrage for one, but denial for the other?

  42. Petra says:


    Pam (McMahon) apologies for not getting back to you last night. However I see that Lollysmum has posted a link here and you can pay with a credit card.

    @ Lollysmum says ”Orkney & Shetland fundraiser just announced”

  43. Fixitfox says:

    Thanks Stu, for doing the technical stuff, so that we mere mortals can spread the word, and the word is….RESIGN. #CarmichaelMustGo

  44. Westie7 says:

    Is he really the Fiscal, no way!

  45. mogabee says:

    Too many questions…too little time.

    Now, when I contact any of my representatives in Holyrood or now Westminster I will insert the following:

    “This correspondence will be thoroughly checked for lies!”

  46. Luigi says:

    west wales says:

    26 May, 2015 at 11:17 am

    I suppose Malcolm’s excuse was that everyone else was making dodgy claims, so that made it ok.


    “if we punished every minister, Prime Minister and MP who had made dodgy expenses claims, we’d clear out the House of Conmons pretty quickly”

  47. Sassenach says:

    The gall of Bruce is truly breathtaking, what he is really saying is that the SNP have enough seats so they cannot try and get poor Alistair’s – because Carbuncle is only following accepted LibDem practice of lying indiscriminately at every available opportunity.

    Good god they even had one of their esteemed number jailed for lying (to the police!!), for goodness sake. When can a LibDem ever be trusted? …………fill in your own thoughts!!

    I’ll bet the rest of our ‘Honourable Members’ were delighted when he called then ALL liars – bet they’re now glad Bruce was given a knighthood!

  48. Today says:

    Can someone please explain to me exactly how the arguments for staying in the EU are different from those for staying in the UK?

    And how is it unfair for scotland to be removed from the EU by the of the UK but fair for scotland to force the rest of the UK to stay in the EU?

    (BTW I am pro EU)

  49. bookie from hell says:

    plan A

    Alistair Carmichael

    head off to Germany over holiday weekend –keep a low profile

    calm & collected

    plan B

    radio 4

    Let Sir Malcom Bruce defend your position

    Meltdown — today’s number 1 talking point every blog,paper,radio,Twitter feed

  50. indigo says:

    I can’t decide whether to contribute to the fundraiser or not:

    Carmichael remaining in post is a gift for Holyrood 2016, but a successful crowdfunded legal action against him by his own constituents is staggeringly newsworthy and shows up the corrupt system for what it is

    Decisions, decisions…

  51. Proud Cybernat says:

    So, when some SNP MP/MSP/Councillor or whatever is found to have lied about something, that’ll be okay? They’ll just forfeir some money and it’s all hunkey dorey? All the Unionists will just STFU about it, will they? All they need do from now on is to invoke the ‘Malky Defense”

    “Malky says it’s okay cos we all do it.”

    Like effing hell they will. Effing go, Carmichael.

  52. Tamson says:


    at which point did Salmond lie about where the White Paper came from? At which point did he authorise the ‘leaking’ of it?

    The White Paper was produced honestly: disagree with the contents as much as you like, but they were elected on a manifesto to produce it, and did so.

    Poor attempt, try again.

  53. G. P. Walrus says:


    BBC Question Time to have new format. Panel will consist of 3 MPs. One always tells lies, one always tells the truth and one sometimes lies and sometimes tells the truth.

    Audience members will be asked to phrase their questions in such a way that the truth can be logically determined from the combination of their answers.

  54. Jim says:

    According to Bruce, Carmichael hadn’t read the memo but knew of it’s existence: He certainly knew what the memo contained, that it was an inaccurate acount of her meeting with the French Ambassador and still authorised it’s release to the press to smear the FM, without giving her or the French the chance to refute the allegations.

    He says, the SNP have managed to win 56 out of 59 seats on just under 50% of the vote, (is that a bad thing for the SNP)?

    He goes on, there is one LD, one Con and one Labour and the SNP wish to extinguish all opposition in Scotland, that’s their objetive. Well who’d have thunk it.

    The SNP can only wipe out the opposition if the voters vote the opposition out so hardly the fault of the SNP that those dinosaur parties perform so badly in Scotland but I am sure that Nicola must be crying into her cornflakes at their demise.

    Malcolm, Scotland does not want you or your like, that is why you and your Unionist brethren are down to one MP each and the sooner you realise this the better it may be for the future of your respective parties.

  55. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    It’s a wee bit of a shock that the lesson so many of these ‘influential’ yellow tory idiots want to take from their complete humiliation at the election is that – their problem was they and Clegg didn’t lie ENOUGH.

    LOL 😀

    The Liar Dems.

    Coming to a lost deposit near you in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, etc. 😉

  56. orri says:

    The alleged date of leaking took place on 1st of April. The, possibly doctored, memo ends with a sentence warning that it’s bullshit. At any other time this’d be seen for what it was, a prank that got out of control. The same way the note apologising for there being no money left was taken out of context despite the further devastation to the economy implying a lack of liquidity would cause.

    If anything it simply shows a mind set that allows people to suspend rational thought when what they read suits their own agenda. As far as the media and unionist political parties went even to the extent that they don’t even perform the basic checks that would prevent them making complete tits of themselves.

  57. fred blogger says:

    imo, it’s got to be done, even only to beat a path for others to follow.

  58. HandandShrimp says:


    Salmond didn’t lie about legal advice. He took legal advice from the Scottish legal officers. It was the opposition that assumed that the legal advice was from some Brussels office. Salmond didn’t correct their mistake and let them spin on it which was perhaps a tad naughty but he didn’t lie.

    As to the 800 page white paper, the UK Treasury alone produced over 1,400 pages of reports doing down Scottish independence. Why are you not railing against the time and money spent on them?

    To say the White Paper was full of lies is a political statement in its own right. I could equally say that the Treasury papers were full of lies too.

    According to Malcolm Bruce that is the business of politics to lie.

  59. Jim says:

    Why is Bruce calling it a mistake carmichael has made?

    It was no mistake; when he deliberately authorised this to be released he knew full well what damage may be caused and probably was caused during the election.

    He talks about Salmond and Sturgeon apparently lying but errs to mention that they did not try to smear a political opponent to influence the outcome of a general election!

  60. Colin Church says:

    Another BBC platform for a turnaround message of SNP BAD.

    Back in the box everyone, nothing to see here, move on. If Nicola can’t take a ribbing without throwing the toys out of the pram what a useless regional FM she is. Aren’t the SNP spiteful everyone?

    Waiting for Carmichael to play the cybernat abuse card and claim the decent people of Orkney and Shetland back him (the silent majority, not SNP mob obviously). I will not be hounded out by people who want a one party state etc etc Blah blah blah.

    How much othering can we take?

  61. Ken500 says:

    How low can these cretins go. It is just unbelievable. Clear the liars out. Bruce did nothing for the NE for thirty years, but trough on public money. Completely useless.

    A bank a/c no (name) or an address for a cheque would boost fund raising.

  62. Robert McDonald says:

    I confess that I was speeding on the way to work but, hey everyone does it, so I took a shorter tea break to atone. Now, let’s hear no more about it OK?

  63. Capella says:

    The Liberals have always lied. e.g. LLoyd George and Home Rule for Ireland. In fact their 200 year attempts to (not) deliver Home Rule, in and out of power. are proof of that.

    The problem is the media which fails to hold them to account. I noted in the Radio 4 broadcast there was no “balance” interview of the current SNP representative from Gordon – Alex Salmond.

  64. Papadox says:

    I’m sure if Andy coulson tells the judge he’s sorry and he has donated £5 to charity (well he would have if he had the money) and he would send a wee I’m sorry card to Tommy Sheriden then that’ll do nicely said the judge.

    Malcolm Bruce (sir PC etc) has now shown us how he and Westminster operate for the betterment of the upper crust. The system and its operators, with a few exceptions, is totally corrupt and rancid to put it mildly.

    The SNP MPs need to be ever vigilant they are not corrupted or contaminated by the Westminster cesspool. Keep well away from it.

  65. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    Malcolm should change his surname, snivelling whelp of a man

  66. Dan Huil says:

    Astonishing. Just when you think you’ve heard it all from disgusting unionist liars…

  67. Caroline Corfield says:

    I’ve tried accessing the fundraiser The people v Carmichael but there’s an error message on the page. Either it’s overloaded with people wanted to contribute or something more disturbing has happened to it. I was attempting just there on my phone over a 4G network so don’t expect it to be my connection.

  68. Grizzle McPuss says:

    You are about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop…

    The Twilight Zone
    Scottish Liberal Democrats
    4 Clifton Terrace,
    EH12 5DR

  69. HandandShrimp says:

    And how is it unfair for scotland to be removed from the EU by the of the UK but fair for scotland to force the rest of the UK to stay in the EU?


    I’m sure that Westminster will not think it fair and consequently if the polls are accurate and Scotland votes 2 to 1 to stay in and England votes to leave then it will likely be the parting of the ways of the two countries.

  70. orri says:

    One thing I can see happening next year assuming the SNP support stays the same or even improves by 2016 is them managing to take all of the constituency seats. That’s where there might be some encouragement to vote for another party in the regions. The problems with that are that’d make it even more probable that there will be unionist SMPs. At that point despite the comparison of apples and oranges the propaganda will be that somehow that’d be a resurgence of their fortunes , especially those of the Lib Dems.

  71. Beryl Simpson says:

    What planet is that man on! It wasn’t just a lie it was a deceitful plan to bring the name of the First Minister of Scotland into disrepute in the weeks before a General Election. For Orkney and Shetland it meant that Darus Skene was standing against Alistair Carmichael who had been lying about what he knew at the time and then the Lib/Dem went on to win by a narrow 817 majority.

  72. Natasha says:

    @Today 11.19am
    It’s not working; too many people on this site are too well-informed. Go somewhere else for your kicks.

  73. Capella says:

    Does anyone know what is the best way of ensuring that these unprincipled liars lose all their seats in Holyrood in 2016? I’m not familiar enough with the STV system.
    I think some advice on this for the general public would be a good idea.

  74. allan thomson says:

    The man is an aberration! (Lib Dem word of the week) This is clearly an issue that new MP’s will wish to raise in Westminster – the fact that all who have gone before them have been liars (at least in Malcolm Bruces time). Taken to their logical conclusion the words of this man will necessitate another general election or democracy will become an even bigger laughing stock than it presently is. Of course as we all know there are big lies and little lies just as there are serious crimes and not so serious ones which the justice system seeks to treat on a considered and balanced basis. This fool has made no attempt to differentiate in the case of distasteful lying. In his desperation to save the skin of his worthless colleague he clearly assumes that someone somewhere will be swayed by this basic and silly argument. I for one am happy for him to continue in his anachronistic approach to Scottish politics. He is out his time and should disappear quietly. What he does achieve is confirmation of the fact that a title and a refined accent are no guarantors of a fair minded thinking man. Exactly what are those who trusted their vote to him over the years thinking when they hear this. On a brighter note – how many more pay days are there for Tavish Scott and Willie Rennie? The LibDems are undoubtedly toast, as they say.

  75. K1 says:

    Ken500, and anyone else noting what Ken just mentioned re cheques and crowdfunding sites not providing an option for those who don’t wish or can’t do paypal or debit/creidt cards.

    Is it possible Ken, or anyone else having difficulty with this, that you could send a cheque to a Winger that you trust, who has the facility to make a payment on your behalf, and you forward a cheque to that Winger? They can note that it is a contribution from you by altering their name to include yours, on the crowdfunding site?

    Just a thought.

  76. Clinton says:

    The BBC report has this in it:

    Mr Carmichael, who held off the SNP to regain his seat by just over 2,000 votes, will not face any disciplinary action by the Scottish Liberal Democrats following a meeting of its executive on Sunday.

    Shouldn’t they be getting basic facts such as majorities correct?

  77. Ken500 says:

    EU Union – agreed small (proportionately) contribution which comes back in benefit. CAP payments, investment grants. The nearest biggest market. Good social Laws etc.

    UK Union – Westminster/Unionists has secretly taken the equivalent of £Billions from Scotland and lied about it, creating poverty in Scotland . Westminster claimed Scotland was subsidised, total lies. The McCrone Report, Thatcher documents released last year. (UK gov – Scottish Gov website GERS) Westminster/Unionists has illegally committed crime, broken Scottish/UK International Law, illegal wars and tax evasion. Westminster/Unionists have illegally broken the Law. Westminster/Unionists get away with murder.

    The only thing in common of the Organisations is the word ‘Union’.

  78. galamcennalath says:

    “The People Versus Carmichael”

    Donation made. £1906 out of £60k. A long way to go and we need to do this, guys.

    We’ve taken all sorts of lies and dirty tricks from Unionists, and over the last year in particular. It will continue if they aren’t taken to task. An example needs to be made – there have to be limits to the extent they pish on democracy.

  79. Graham MacQueen says:

    If it is seen as acceptable common practice to lie in the HoC then we SHOULD clear the house out and replace MP’s with trustworthy, honest representatives of the people!

  80. Fiona says:

    I heard the radio 4 interview when it was broadcast. I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the interviewer. She made serious attempts to get him to stay on point and answer the questions. That is at least part of the reason we see him for what he was actually saying. More of this would be welcome

  81. Jim Thomson says:

    In the good old days, when a politician had “the full support” of his leader and colleagues, it was simply a matter of hours before he/she resigned.

    It seems the young Mr A Carmichael MP is just so mind bogglingly stupid and bereft of any intelligence that he actually thinks his leader and colleagues really mean what they say – even after Brucey clearly stated that MPs lie as part of their job.


  82. One_Scot says:

    Brucey baby, how about we get rid of all the lying scumbags at Westminster that you refer to, and we replace them with decent people.

    Crazy idea, but hey, if we can put a man on the moon, anything is possible.

  83. desimond says:

    Bruce was on a few weeks ago lamenting how the stitch up system he helped create at Holyrood hadnt fulfilled its purpose and allowed an SNP majority. A horrid man who is very much part of the Westminster system.

  84. birnie says:

    What shocked me most of all was that The Secretary of State for Scotland did his best to rubbish Scotland’s First Minister.

    Although they came from different political parties, the office he held should have required him to advise the First Minister that he had potentially damaging information (allowing her to confirm or deny said information) and that his party interest during the election required him to release it.

    If the Scotland Office has to have any justifiable purpose at all, a minimum obligation surely is that SoS and FM must communicate at all times.

  85. indigo says:

    @fred blogger

    fair point – done! let’s hope it reaches a monster total

  86. call me dave says:

    OOOft! Another gold plated brass neck collar please …Immediately!

    As for Carmichael he should follow the last Lib/dem, Christ Huhne.

    He resigned after pleading guilty to perverting the course of justice and joined the stewards of the Chiltern Hundreds. A noble order of deceivers.

  87. manandboy says:

    Please, please, a thousand times please, do not feed the trolls. Do not reply to them, just ignore them. Beware two trolls working in tandem trying to appear as if one of them is genuine.

    Stu, is it really beyond the pale to mark a troll as such alongside his/her moniker?

  88. Fiona says:

    @ birnie.

    Certainly he should have put it to her and to the French Embassy, then, if he still thought it true and in the public interest to disclose it he should have done so openly and under his own name. His instincts are not to do things openly, it seems.

  89. Natasha says:

    @galamcennalath 12.07pm

    It’s £6k not £60k, thank goodness – not quite as long a way to go as that! At this rate, I think they’ll manage it.

    It would be nice to see Independence Live’s fundraiser go as well as this; they do a brilliant job.

  90. Socrates MacSporran says:

    It is now quite obvious, Carmichael will make every effort to brazen this one out, and he will be assisted every step of the way by his Lib-Dem friends.

    He was NOT an MP when he was caught – BUT – he was still HM Secretary of State for Scotland; this is his weakness. At PMQs, the SNP bloc MUST hammer it home to Cameron>

    Your last SoSfS has been shown to be guilty of “economies of truth” (an MP or government officer can never be accused of lying inside the Chamber) – what assurances can you give his successor will not operate in a similar matter?

    Does my Right Honourable Friend the PM agree with me that the Right Honourable Member for Orkney and Shetland has acted contrary to the standards of this house and of the office of SoSfS at the time he was shown to leak wrong and potentially damaging information against the FM of Scotland?

    Has my Right Honourable Friend the PM instructed his Right Honourable Friend the Foreign Secretary to apologise to the French Ambassador and the government of France for the wrong done it by the former SoSfS?

    Embarrass the Tories by association and in short order, Carmichael’s position will be unsustainable and he has to quit. We may not like the arcane protocols of Westminster, but, if the SNP uses these properly, Carmichael will be driven out.

    I am sure, with his expert knowledge of how the Commons works, Wee Eck is cooking-up a nasty trap for Carmichael and his supporters to fall into.

  91. manandboy says:

    Malcolm Bruce speaking at a meeting of ‘Action on hearing loss’ – is there an end to your talent, Stu?

  92. Macart says:

    No, no its not ok to lie.

    Its not OK to manipulate public perception using the weight of high office and a compromised media. Its not ok to treat people like cattle or puppets directing them to suit a personal or party agenda. Its most certainly not ok to defame, smear, undermine, betray trust and lie all because you think you can and its all part of a supposed accepted norm.

    Well I don’t find this ‘norm’ acceptable and I’m guessing since Mr Bruce’s party and indeed all of the other establishment parties had their collective arses handed to them on May 7th a good many other people don’t find our politics as it is practised acceptable either.

    Perhaps some politicians need to get out more. Get out of that rarified wee bubble of theirs and look at what is happening at ground level. The public are sick and tired of being lied to, manipulated and otherwise used and abused by the established system of government and media. They are heart sick of being used as electoral coinage and then discarded, of being pointed in one direction, then dragged in another, by people with enough political clout, position, money or access to make it happen. What is occurring now amongst the electorate is merely the tipping point.

    If Mr Bruce thinks the May 7th change in Scottish politics/UK politics is done, he may be in for a rude shock. People have seen the difference an engaged and more informed choice can make. They’ll want more. Hell, they’ll demand more and they have the tools to make it happen. People have the power to make the politics of their system work for them, they always did. It was establishment politicians who convinced them otherwise.

    Well as Mr Bruce is about to find out, its not the SNP that should worry him, but engaged public opinion and a public that is beginning to realise just what it is capable of achieveing.

  93. ArtyHetty says:

    I can’t decide whether Carmichael and his accessories, (or vice versa) are ticks, or leeches. I guess leeches can do some good, so ok, ticks it is. Sorry to the real life tick insect, but this one is gonna have to be removed somehow, before it causes it’s host to become very angry indeed.

  94. Andrew McLean says:

    Malcolm Bruce is trying to save what little is left from the reputation of his party, if Mr Carmichael quits, then what’s left for the liberals? Their time in Westminster “for the greater good ” will be tarnished further, so in a panic Malcolm says “come on lads, you know us politicians are all liars, just look at the expenses saga, the sleaze, we are are all scum, you knew that when you voted for us” “actually it’s the electorate who are a fault, you put us in power”,
    Really Malcolm that how it is in liberal land these days?

  95. galamcennalath says:

    orri says:
    “SNP … managing to take all of the constituency seats. That’s where there might be some encouragement to vote for another party in the regions.”

    Early days for Holyrood 2016, but everyone need to be very careful when they consider how to vote and do some research.

    There is a myth that somehow the so called 1st vote ie constituency is the main vote, and the 2nd vote ie list/regional can be used as a ‘bit of a flutter’.

    To my mind the 2nd regional vote has to be the priority one because it is the one which dictates the actual proportions of each party in parliament ( all be it messed around a bit by the regional aspect).

    With PR, I will always vote for the party which best suits my views. I will chose a party member for constituency, and that same party to make up the proportions. I won’t be splitting my vote.

    I’m not saying others shouldn’t split their vote, I am just urging people to understand how the system actually works before they do.

  96. Papadox says:

    Which porky that Carbuncle told us was a mistake? A I know the one he got caught out on, all the others were justified after all he is A RIGHT HONOURABLE GENTLMAN, MEMBER OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL, EX PROCURATOR FISCAL, EX MEMBER OF HER MAJESTYS GOVERNMENT. totally incompetent careless and dangerous individual, in other words part of the great UK Establishment. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

  97. K1 says:

    I think if all the constituency seats are taken by the SNP next year, or near as dammit, then we are looking very seriously at our population deciding to leave by the only recognisable means (to the establishment), as it will have happened democratically (through the ballot). This gets very difficult to argue with using the same tired and corrupt arguments.

    Then if we repeat this at the council levels in 2017, I think the message is clear.

    We actually can’t trust this to another referendum. Imv. I actually think everyone is underestimating our citizens strategy here. But then what do I know; I actually still have genuine faith in people.

    Once we leave and leading up to this, other parties; SSP and Greens have opportunities to become oppositional, or balancing forces in that situation. I don’t care for the narrative of ‘one party state’ that’s their corruption of what is taking place and I don’t support that notion in any way, shape or form.

    It is bereft of understanding because it sits upon a false premise: That this has anything to to with the SNP as a ‘force’ that is altering their paradigm, and therefore they seek to ‘halt’ this ‘aberration’. They are incapable, as many have pointed out, of actually understanding, that this is people led, and that the SNP is the vehicle and represents the people’s altered paradigm.

    We are not stupid.

  98. dmw42 says:

    Is this a new twist implicating the BBC in the subterfuge of democracy?

    BBC – “…lying in public life is widespread?”
    ‘Sir’ Malky – “…lots of people have told lies and you (BBC) know that to be perfectly true…”

    So the public broadcaster is aware that our elected representatives are lying to us, and yet has chosen not to highlight or report on when we’re being lied to?

  99. No no no...Yes says:

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

    Malcolm Bruce was on the verge of a breakdown during the election and this may tip him over the edge. Has he made libellous comments about every MP in the Commons?

    As for his attempt to support Carmichael he really has made a complete fool of himself and the LibDems.

    I am still surprised at the silence from the Tories and Labour. They know Carmichael should resign but can’t bring themselves to say it. Disgraceful behaviour.

    What Bruce has done is breathe new life into the story which will keep it in the public domain. Even BBC Scotland cannot continue to report the scandal as a “leaked memo”, can they?

    Roll on Holyrood 2016, Labour are a spent force, the Libdems have committed suicide and Ruth who led Tories to worst ever defeat in a GE, will lead them once more into battle.

    Interesting times, or what?

  100. Fiona says:

    @ Macart

    “Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue”


  101. Joemcg says:

    Today-Maybe the story passed you by but Nicola and the 56 are still pushing for Scotland to have a seperate vote from RUK in the EU referendum. So your argument that we might keep the RUK in the EU against its will is pish as we don’t want included in the UK wide vote. Cameron himself said last week that the borders and Orkney and Shetland were included in the September vote so “why shouldn’t Scotland be included in the EU vote?” Bullshite,but he was trying to debunk sturgeon’s argument.

  102. K1 says:

    Capella, Scot goes Pop, has done a bit of demystifying on the 2016 elections when it comes to understanding how the ballot works…I recommend reading the comments too…I find it a bit complicated too…but at least the discussions have begun. No doubt it will become clearer nearer the time as everyone starts to focus…on what is required to achieve the results we wish to see….

  103. manandboy says:

    Courtesy of Ken McQuarrie and John Boothman at BBC Scotland

    “Alistair Carmichael bullied by SNP – Sir Malcolm Bruce”

    Then it’s pick a number time, as John asks Ken what Carmichaels winning margin is. ‘Och, Ah don’t know,’ says Ken,’ jist say 2000′. Actually it was 817.

    But when Carmichael’s lying and Bruce is lying, then McQuarrie and Boothman must have felt quite at home.

    Mr Carmichael, who held off the SNP to regain his seat by just over 2,000 votes, will not face any disciplinary action by the Scottish Liberal Democrats following a meeting of its executive on Sunday.”

  104. ian says:

    Bruce hangs himself with his own petard this is the very reason many in Scotland want independence.We are sick of politicians being economical with the truth and having no honour.They seem to think they are above the normal rules of society.
    Are all the trolls and no voters quite happy with this?Is this the example they want set for their children and grandchildren?This type of stuff has reached epidemic proportions but still the lethargic,uninformed and the i’m all right jack’s are dictating our future.

  105. James Kay says:

    Let us assume that Carmichael is telling the truth when he says that he did not read the memo before it went to the papers.

    He was at the meeting in question, so he knows what was said. By his own account, the first time he knew about the false report of what NS said was when he read about it in the Press. At a time when NS and the French Consul were denying that any such remarks had been made, was it not his duty to speak publicly about the falsity of the memo? To my mind, this silence is a greater crime than that of ‘leaking’ or of lying about who leaked it.

  106. muttley79 says:


    Corroboration has not been abolished, so I do not know what you are referring to in your post at 11.08.

    I see from the Guardian that Malcolm Bruce came out with this beauty:

    But Bruce said Scotland needed diversity and plurality: “Scotland is a divided and bruised country with just one Liberal Democrat, one Conservative and Labour MP, and the SNP are quite clearly trying to extinguish all opposition in Scotland. That’s their objective and they will stop at nothing to do it – and their own record on mistakes and misleading of parliament does not bear close examination.”

    So there we have it, according to Malcolm Bruce by attempting to win elections and get as much support as possible at the ballot box, the SNP are trying to ‘extinguish all opposition in Scotland!’ Is this performance art via impersonations of Basil Fawlty/Inspector Clouseau, or is it just Bruce barking at the moon again? 😀

  107. fred blogger says:

    they constantly insult the electorate and the resultant apathy sticks as indoctrination, and they fight for no change.
    we have broken apathy in scotland, they don’t want this to spread
    they have a massive sense of entitlement.
    we the people should administer their entitlements.

  108. Giving Goose says:

    The clue to understanding Bruce’s (never was a person so non deserving of a surname) behaviour is the title of “Sir.”

    This man sees everything he holds dear disappearing in front of him.

    And what Bruce holds dear is the system that gave him that title of “Sir”.

    Bruce has been rewarded (in his eyes) for doing his bit in ensuring that the People of Scotland have played a subservient roll to the London Elite. Now that those who should be subservient are now flexing their muscles and throwing off the centuries of shackles, i.e the manufactured lies, misinformation and insult, Bruce sees his very position and Title under threat. And he’s scared and angry.

    Get rid of the system and we got rid of people and titles. Cheerio Bruce.

  109. Luigi says:

    Macart says:

    26 May, 2015 at 12:17 pm
    If Mr Bruce thinks the May 7th change in Scottish politics/UK politics is done, he may be in for a rude shock. People have seen the difference an engaged and more informed choice can make. They’ll want more. Hell, they’ll demand more and they have the tools to make it happen. People have the power to make the politics of their system work for them, they always did. It was establishment politicians who convinced them otherwise.

    Well as Mr Bruce is about to find out, its not the SNP that should worry him, but engaged public opinion and a public that is beginning to realise just what it is capable of achieving.

    The long-term psychological impact of 56 SNP MPs on Scotland should not be under-estimated. As the initial shock wears off, critical numbers of soft NO voters may well be on the verge of thinking: “Oh feck it, if this is what Scotland really wants, then so be it let’s go for it”. It’s becoming normal to support independence and huge numbers of people have acquired a nasty habit of voting SNP. Worrying times indeed for the unionist parties (what’s left of them) in Scotland.

  110. Capella says:

    Thanks K1 – will check out Scot Goes Pop.

  111. dakk says:

    I suppose Stuart Hall,I mean Malcolm Bruce is not telling us something we on here don’t already know about unionist politicians,and this tiny panicky bit of honesty is welcome.

    What I object to is implying SNP politicians also habitually lie. Whilst some have obviously made errors,they have apologized and corrected the errors asap.Not to say no SNP has ever lied in the history of the world.

    Also,his remedies for Carmichael’s lying are typically entrenched in the troughing entitlement and distorted reality of unionist politicians.

    His admissions may however surprise a few cloud cuckoo unionists/BritNats tuning into Radio 4 who still naively think Westminster is a bastion of democracy and moral rectitude in projecting Britain’s greatness across the globe.

  112. crazycat says:

    @ Capella at 12.01

    Re: getting rid of all the LibDems next year

    The flippant answer to your question is “don’t vote for them” 🙂

    Despite being flippant, this does underlie the real answer, though. During the 2010-15 Westminster Parliament, the LDs were absolutely hammered at every voting opportunity; even at the by-election they won their vote was drastically diminished and they only clung on because UKIP stopped the Tories but didn’t quite make it themselves.

    If that is repeated next year, they won’t do any better than in 2011 – 2 constituency seats and 3 list seats. The 2 constituencies (one of which had a huge drop in majority) were of course Orkney and Shetland. I suspect that Scott and McArthur will be greatly affected by any fallout from the Carmichael affair.

    The 3 list seats were in 3 different regions, and required at least 5% of the vote in each. They had no constituency seats there, though. In Highlands and Islands they got nearly 12% of the list vote, but no top-up MSPs because of the 2 constituency wins. If Scott and/or McArthur lose, they might get a list seat or two to compensate, if the same number of voters back them again. If Orkney and Shetland are lost as part of a further collapse, they may not get any seats in H&I.

    So I think they need (from our point of view) to get no more than 5% of the list votes, evenly distributed between the regions, and to lose Orkney and Shetland. After the drubbing they got 3 weeks ago, can they fall further? I don’t know.

  113. Petra says:

    The investigation that was carried out by Jeremy Heywood isn’t helpful at all. The Inquiry Report is an absolute insult to our intelligence: a veritable whitewash in fact.

    Why have they not included dates in this report? When did the investigation commence? When was finalised? We should all be demanding to know why this took 7 weeks to complete. More than anything why they waited until after the Election to reveal all.

    It also co-incided with Carmichael no longer holding the position of Secretary of State for Scotland. The post he said he would have resigned from over this debacle. Did that factor into the time-line of the delayed report?

    I would also have liked to see them fill in some of the ‘blanks’!

    1. ”The investigation team interviewed the civil servant in the Scotland Office who produced the memo.”

    Why don’t they name this person especially as they go on to name Euan Roddin, Special Advisor. The ‘Civil Servant’ is a key player in this fiasco: the person who spoke to the French Consul General.

    2. ”Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses.”

    Who are the ‘unamed Senior Officials’ who were questioned about the ‘unknown’ memo producer? And doesn’t this just smack of calling the French Consul General a liar taking into account the FCG denied all knowledge of NS mentioning anything at all about wanting DC to be PM.

    3.”He believed that the memo was an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him and the French Consul General, and highlighted that the memo had stated that part of the conversation between the French Ambassador and the First Minister might well have been “lost in translation”.”

    Why outline the crux of the whole issue as ‘that part of the conversation’? Shouldn’t ‘that part of the conversation’ be absolutely clarified, that is that Nicola Sturgeon wanted David Cameron to be Prime Minister?

    If the ‘unnamed’ person did think that ‘that part of the conversation’ might well have been ‘lost in translation’ why did he not clarify that at the time with the FCG? More like this was appended to the memo to cover their backs.

    It would also be interesting to know what language was spoken during this conversation and if the ‘lost in translation’ part related to the conversation between NS and the FA or the ‘unnamed’ memo producer and the FCG.

    4. ”There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’.”

    Aye right! If that was the case why wasn’t this discussed with N S or dropped altogether if the ‘that part of the conversation could have been lost in translation’. Why leak it to a reporter at the Telegraph?

    5. Mr Roddin confirmed that he provided a copy of the Scotland Office memo to a Daily Telegraph journalist on 1 April 2015, and discussed the memo with the journalist on a number of occasions.

    This has been called a Breach of Protocol. Has Roddin not breached the Data Protection Act or Civil Service Code of Conduct? Who was the journalist? Why the necessity to discuss this on a number of occasions? What was discussed? Adding the ‘lost in translation’ part?

    6. ”Those who had access to the memo were asked to complete a questionnaire on what they did with the memo when they received it. They were then interviewed.”

    How many people, who exactly, had access to the memo? What did they do with it?

    7. ”An official mobile phone was used to make telephone calls to one of the authors of the Daily Telegraph story. This phone was held by Euan Roddin, previously Special Adviser to the then Secretary of State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael. Mr Roddin confirmed that he provided a copy of the Scotland Office memo to a Daily Telegraph journalist on 1 April 2015, and discussed the memo with the journalist on a number of occasions.”

    The phone was held by Euan Roddin and then … jumps to ‘he provided the memo to the Telegraph’. This isn’t stating that ER made the phone calls at all. ‘HELD BY’. Meaning what? It was his phone? Or maybe he was holding the phone (in his hand) to enable Mundell to speak to the journalist, lol.

    8. ”He told the investigation team that he acted in what he saw as the public interest and that in his view the public needed to be aware of the position attributed to the First Minister.”

    If that was the case why did he wait SO long before leaking the memo? Wait until the day after NS was being hailed for her part in the debate?

    9. ”Alistair Carmichael confirmed that he had been asked by Mr Roddin for his view of the possibility of sharing the memo with the press.”

    No mention as to whether Alistair Carmichael read the memo or not. Did he read the memo (I’m sure he did) / play any part in composing it?

    10. ”No-one else had any involvement in the leaking of the memo.”

    Mmmhh why even mention that?

    11. Was Alistair Carmichael questioned about lying to the public and in the process wasting tax-payers money?

    ”Scotland Office memorandum leak: Cabinet Office inquiry statement

    From: Cabinet Office and Scotland Office
    First published: 22 May 2015

    This statement follows the completion of an inquiry into a leaked Scotland Office memorandum.


    Following the leak of a Scotland Office memorandum that formed the basis of a story in the Daily Telegraph on 3 April, the Cabinet Secretary instigated a Cabinet Office-led leak inquiry to establish how this memo came to be written and how it got into the public domain. The inquiry process is now complete.

    The memo

    The investigation team interviewed the civil servant in the Scotland Office who produced the memo. He confirmed under questioning that he believed that the memo was an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him and the French Consul General, and highlighted that the memo had stated that part of the conversation between the French Ambassador and the First Minister might well have been “lost in translation”.

    Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses. The Cabinet Secretary has concluded that there is no reason to doubt that he recorded accurately what he thought he had heard. There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’.

    The leak

    In investigating the source of the leak, the investigation team searched all relevant official phone records, emails and print logs. Those who had access to the memo were asked to complete a questionnaire on what they did with the memo when they received it. They were then interviewed.

    The investigation established the following facts:

    An official mobile phone was used to make telephone calls to one of the authors of the Daily Telegraph story. This phone was held by Euan Roddin, previously Special Adviser to the then Secretary of State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael. Mr Roddin confirmed that he provided a copy of the Scotland Office memo to a Daily Telegraph journalist on 1 April 2015, and discussed the memo with the journalist on a number of occasions.

    He told the investigation team that he acted in what he saw as the public interest and that in his view the public needed to be aware of the position attributed to the First Minister.

    Alistair Carmichael confirmed that he had been asked by Mr Roddin for his view of the possibility of sharing the memo with the press.

    Mr Carmichael agreed that this should occur. He recognises that, as a Secretary of State, he was responsible for his own conduct and that of his Special Adviser. He could and should have stopped the sharing of the memo and accordingly accepts responsibility for what occurred.

    No-one else had any involvement in the leaking of the memo.

    The investigation team has therefore concluded that Mr Roddin, with the assent of Mr Carmichael in the circumstances described above, was the direct source of the Daily Telegraph story. The Cabinet Secretary has accepted their findings in full. Mr Carmichael and Mr Roddin have also accepted the conclusions.

    Neither Mr Carmichael nor Mr Roddin will take their severance pay.”

  114. Luigi says:

    ” Mr Carmichael, who held off the SNP to regain his seat by just over 2,000 votes, will not face any disciplinary action by the Scottish Liberal Democrats following a meeting of its executive on Sunday.”

    So, apparently it is not only politicians that are liars. A genuine, unintentional mistake by our licence-funded BBC?

    Aye, right!

  115. Alex Waugh says:

    “if we punished every minister, Prime Minister and MP who had lied we’d clear out the House of Conmons pretty quickly”

    And that would be a problem because….? Sounds like a damned good idea to me.

  116. neil bruce says:

    Findlay farquaharson says @ 11.45

    “Malcolm should change his surname, snivelling whelp of a man”

    I wish he would. it is embarrassing sharing a surname
    with this gibbering clown.

    Thankfully he is not even a dim and distant relative.

    He is just dim and distant.

  117. Free Scotland says:

    Definition of a liberal democrat:

    someone who considers it acceptable to hold a liberal interpretation of the word “democrat.”

  118. Archie Pluff says:

    Would it not be a better idea to leave Carmichael in place, We can then have five years of utter baffoonery from Bruce and his ilk,The gift that keeps giving,

  119. Lollysmum says:

    @ Caroline Corfield
    The page is working. Fund now stands at £3662

    It is £60k because they have to know they can pay both sets of costs if O & S lose the case. That’s the rules. £6000 is the money they have to deposit with the legal papers.

  120. Macart says:

    Yeah, that’s his defence. Basically he’s saying virtue is the preferred option of course, but y’know… we do what we do in the big house. 🙁

  121. Today says:

    Gees, I’m just so proud of Scottish democracy these days – anyone with an view or asking difficult questions is branded a ‘troll’


  122. Dear Today, the only lies directly associated with Alex Salmond are those told on a daily basis by the media and political opponents. Eg.The lie that he and the SNP promised not to have another referendum for a generation….something that they never promised but Mr Salmond thought might be the case.

    Similarly, he did take legal advice and the money on the white paper was money well spent compared to money spent on various nonsensical papers produced by the unionists before and after the referendum.

    The best example being the laughable publication called Scotlands changing.

    It surely can’t be too long now before we get the 10 or 15 per cent of no voters required to set Scotland on a new path.

  123. Free Scotland says:

    The tories will be hoping that Carmichael does NOT resign, because, the moment he does, he’ll most likely start blabbing about Mundell’s involvement in the whole business.

  124. Today says:

    You’re right that it wasn’t abolished but they did try to.

  125. heedtracker says:

    “Today says:
    26 May, 2015 at 11:19 am
    So when Salmond lies about having legal advice on EU membership that’s okay? When he uses taxpayers money to create the white paper, a plainly party political document full of falsehoods and lies, that’s okay?”

    Usual UKOK stuff here Today.

    Look at this way then.

    The Scottish electorate listened to your style of attack on the SNP and they clearly disagreed with you by voting SNP, in an unprecedented historic landslide, May 7 2015.

    Yet the same electorate are now to be denied the opportunity to give their decision on a historic LibDem fraud like Carmichael while he was minister, for another five years?

    Hardly fair, honest or democratic Today. Maybe Carmichael can win a by-election. Lets find out.

  126. Haggis Hunter says:

    Any lie from the LabServativeDem and Unionist party is backed by the BBC/ITV wing of the party, Scotland needs its own media, which is held in trust, like in Ireland or Germany.

  127. DerekM says:

    so Malcolm Bruce thinks its okay to lie to the electorate and that if we were to start punishing lying MP`s there would be no one left,i disagree Malcolm there would be at least 56 left and probably more as there are some good MP`s from the other parties.

    What you really meant was all your pals in the establishment but i hate to disappoint you its not really news, as we have known about it for a long time that you are all lying bastirds and now we the people are trying to do something about it, do keep up you overpaid idiot.

    if you lib dems had any sense you would do the right thing and drop him like a hot potato ,in fact if you had any sense you would sack Rennie as well, both will get you mauled by the Scottish lion ,and by now you must realize we are in no mood for more lies.

    Its simple lib dems Carmichael`s head on a silver plater or we take you all out 2016 your choice,how can you trust us you cant, but doing the right thing might make us change our minds a little as we like the right thing.

  128. Natasha says:

    @Lollysmum 12.54pm & galamcennalath

    You are quite right, of course, and I would like to present my humble apologies for not checking my facts! I will now go and sit in the corner for a while and keep quiet.

  129. Macart says:


    And THAT is the very thing Luigi. Normalising Scottish politicians, running Scottish affairs from a Scottish parliament, with members elected to govern by the Scottish electorate. Its taken a lot of time and effort for the establishment to disenfranchise and marginalise the population. Reversing decades worth of such propaganda was never going to be an overnight or easy task. People need to become acclimated to the new political geography, feel their way and weight their own worth again. They need to believe and know that the governing of their country is in the safest of hands, their own hands.

    Let’s face it, people have been given little reason to feel trust in any political party or system, but one they can shape for themselves? Well that’s worth having, but they need to feel its achievable and doable. All things going well, it’ll come sooner rather than later.

    When the electorate want this badly enough, they can have it at any time of their choosing.

  130. Dr Jim says:

    It’s OK to tell a brazen lie is it Phew!!
    I’ll get right on with that immediately then

    “I haven’t been parked here long officer” Harmless lie

    “I never dropped any litter” Harmless lie

    “The First Minister of Scotland and the French Ambassador are liars” It’s a little different isn’t it
    Maybe to the Lib Dems this level of lie is OK

    This particular lie was designed to smear and undermine the First Ministers credibility and paint “Her” as the Liar which our ever co-operative media was gratefull for the opportunity to bite with both fangs

    This was not nor ever could be described as anything less than a measured organised attack by Nicola Sturgeons opponents directly on her and the SNP in order to influence the outcome of the General Election
    The Liberal Democrats to now seek to have some degree of mercy shown to them is despicable given their own past record of shouting for resignations all over the place for far less an offence by others of “Any” party

    The First Minister is a politician and part of her job is to handle these events so we don’t have to
    But the Electorate are not politicians and as a rule we don’t tell lies like these or we’d be in trouble PDQ
    So the one rule for them one rule for us rule is what the Liberal Democrats stand for

    So if Mr Carmichael and the Lib Dems think they can get away with this can I just suggest and remind them that the whole of Scotland now understands their attitude to the public and “You are the few, We are the many” might strike a note in the minds of those you mean to rule by deception

    Public office is the privilege to serve, it’s an honour and bestowed by the people
    Not stolen by a lie

  131. Joemcg says:

    Today has a point. I do love this site and most of the contributors but if you dare stray off their chain of thought this Troll word is thrown at you. It’s extremely fucking annoying. Pisses me off no end. That’s the only post of yours I agree with though Mr Today! UKOK?

  132. indigo says:

    the fundraiser seems to be flying, just gone past £7k – hope it gets some media attention

  133. James123 says:

    It’s a shame Malcolm Bruce didn’t tell us everyone in the House of Commons was a liar before the referendum, it might have changed the result.

  134. Dave the Extremely Liberal Squirrel says:

    We, the public, just have to accept that there is a culture of tolerance for lying and cheating in parliament, and that’s just the way it is?

    The most senior liberal democrats have reviewed the actions of the most senior liberal democrats, and found it to be fit and proper?

    F*** all of you. Every last one. Each one starting to sound guilty as the last with this olive branch crap. I bet the whole stinking, dying, dead party is in on this.

  135. Iain More says:

    I remember the Moray By election that followed the death of Margaret Bain/Ewing where the above turd Bruce said live on TV that it was okay to lie in politics. The Fib Dooms have a history for telling porkies. On that occasion they claimed they had the endorsement of the Northern Scot weekly rag when in fact the rag always remained neutral politically.

  136. Famous15 says:


    It was brilliant reading the troll “Today” getting frothier at the mouth when he was being ignored and someone went and spoiled it by pointing out the error of his ways. We ALL know he is talking nonsense,the fun is watching him get more and more absurd WHEN HE IS IGNORED.

  137. david clelland says:

    i dont know what annoys me more about the whole sordid affair.
    is it:

    1. why didnt fatguts come clean when he held an inquiry was being held? instead he brazened it out. after all its only over a million quid of public money.
    the answer being he knew the effect it would have on his chances of re-election.

    2. for the libdems to condone this action is sickening and hypocritical since they want to be seen as a party of honesty and fairness. well that image has well and truly been ruined now.

    3. if joe public done something dodgy which incurred a cost, im in no doubt the state would want to be recompensed. so why is there silence from them on this.

    4. if fatguts does resign will he get offered a seat in the lords, thus rewarding him for his dishonesty.

    the whole thing stinks and libdems will follow labour on the path to obliteration at the polls for holyrood.

  138. Grouse Beater says:

    If ever I cost a person I dislike to lose his reputation I shall forgo a holiday in punishment of my ‘error of judgment’.

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @Today says: 26 May, 2015 at 11:19 am:

    So when Salmond lies about having legal advice on EU membership that’s okay?

    No, Today, it is not o.k. for the very good reason Salmond did not lie. He referred himself to the Parliamentary Standards Committee a he was cleared:

    The reason he was cleared was that the official BBC transcript proved the Question Andrew Neil asked was this, “Have you sought legal advice from your own Scottish Law Officers on this matter”

    So perhaps you should consider English Language remedial classes. How can you translate that question as having EU legal advice when it came from SG Legal officers?

    “he uses taxpayers money to create the white paper, a plainly party political document full of falsehoods and lies, that’s okay?

    You are obviously in need of those English lessons, Today.

    He, (Salmond), didn’t use taxpayer’s money, the SG did. That’s what they get the money for. Furthermore, you have given no evidence of falsehoods or lies – please do.

    “I know that it was wrong and bad of Carmichael to lie but why is their outrage for one, but denial for the other?

    There isn’t as the claims you make about Salmond are utter claptrap and I’ve just proven that point and there was no action proven against Salmond, just Britnat lies and a proven failure to be able to comprehend basic English. However, Carmichael has admitted, at least in part, that he is guilty. So you are indeed a Troll and will now be treated as such and ignored.

  140. Jack Murphy says:

    Sir Malcolm Bruce:- “My point is if you’re suggesting every MP who has never quite told the truth or indeed told a brazen lie, including Ministers, including Cabinet Ministers, including Prime Ministers, we’d clear out the House of Commons very fast, I would suggest.”
    With this damning revelation I would expect Sir Malcolm Bruce to return his Knight Bachelor insignia,awarded for “public and political services” to Her Majesty immediately.

  141. Mark Russell says:

    Couldn’t quite believe what I was hearing this morning from Malcom The Bruce. He almost lost his teeth on two occasions and nearly choked on the word Sturgeon for some reason. You think he’s upset about something? At least he disclosed Parliament is full of liars, which goes well with the cheats, paedophiles and war criminals. To a Louse indeed.

  142. Hugh says:

    Wonder if Bruce will eat his hat?. Oh no! Forgot that was another lie by a Grandee non the less. Yes it’s pretty rife within the Lim Dem ranks.

  143. Andrew McLean says:

    Has he resigned yet?

  144. Macart says:

    Just wondering like, but now that Mr Bruce has admitted that Westminster effectively floats on a sea of liars and conducts its day to day business in this vein, just why would anyone believe a word he has to say in future?

    I mean I’m sure that Mr Bruce will on occasion be called upon by various broadcasters to offer an opinion or two from a comfy sofa on all things political, but from now until doom cracks as soon as he utters syllable one, this declaration of his must surely come back to haunt him. When could a member of the viewing/listening electorate trust that on any given appearance he was giving an ‘honest’ opinion?

  145. Andrew McLean says:

    Sir Malcolm Bruce has received over 2.1 million pounds in salary alone at today’s rate, now he tells us its all lies.
    I am sorry that is not acceptable!, if you agree perhaps a email to
    Kathryn Hudson – Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards
    Telephone: 020 7219 0320

    I know he is not a serving MP but he was, for 30 years, now he teats us like fools!

  146. Patrick Roden says:

    @ Andrew McLean,

    Thanks Andrew letter sent:

    Dear Kathryn,

    I was disgusted to hear the so called SIR Malcom Bruce tell a BBC radio broadcast that although Alistair Carmichael lied to his constituents, this should not be a resigning matter because, if all politicians who told Brazen Lies were to resign, there would be no MP’s left in the House of Commons!

    This is quiet an extraordinary claim by someone who has been Knighted and who presumably knows the Westminster Parliamentary standards better than most people.

    Is it true that Westminster MP are ‘brazen liars’ and is this acceptable?

    Would it be more honest to refer to Westminster as the ‘House of Liars’ rather than continue with the pretence that the House is something other than a place where the UK elite are able to meet up and lie and deceive the electorate for their own sordid ends.

    I am sorry to sound so bitter and my fury is not directed at you in any way Kathryn, but I am completely furious at the claim by the so called Sir Malcolm, and I am equaly furious that the proven liar Alistair Carmichael seems to be able to ignore all standards of common decency and hang on to a seat that he won by a hugely reduced majority and this probably only because he told this lie, but did not admit to it until he was found out after the election.

    Westminster is a disgrace, and the continuing habit of treating the population of the UK like fools will certainly see the break up of the UK very soon as the palpable anger in Scotland at this will not go away any time soon.

    Mr Patrick Roden,


  147. Fiona says:

    Malcolm Bruce may well know more about what goes on than most: yet it is also well known that people who lie as a matter of routine convince themselves that everybody else does to. It is how they live with themselves. So he might be right or he might not.

    I am inclined to believe that this is projection

  148. Jim Campbell says:

    I find it incredulous that “Sir” Malcolm Bruce expects the Scottish people to be appeased by his admission that Politicians are liars, and that westminster would be devoid of life were we to get rid of everyone who told a lie? Alistair Carmichael perverted the course of a democratic election and thats ok because he decided to forego his severance pay? So he lied, lied again, got caught, came clean under duress and finally, punished HIMSELF by not accepting his severance package!!! Well thats alright then… good job…. so now to the next point…. will the same Mr Carmichael, so grievously wounded by these bitter claims, pay back to the taxpayer the £1.4 million pounds he cost us by refuting the lie until it was beyond denial, and therefore had to be substantiated with the actual truth!!!! So we are accepting the progressive action of self sentencing for ALL criminal acts henceforth in Scotland… AYE that will be shining bright!!!!

  149. Fiona says:

    @ Jim Campbell

    It is curious that he seems to think that the threat of clearing out the HofC would worry us. If he is correct then surely that is just what is desirable?

    Does he imagine that we love them all dearly? Or that they have some unique qualities so valuable that we have to take the downside as part of the package?

    What is the man thinking?

  150. Lollysmum says:


    Sorry I’ve only just seen your post from lunchtime! I hope you aren’t still in the corner. If so, come out now-I don’t bear grudges 🙂

    Yours was a funny post mind-made me smile so thanks for that 😉

  151. Lollysmum says:

    Wow the fundraiser is up to £16,800. Well done Orkney & Shetland, the whole of UK may well have cause to thank you for making a start on cleaning up Westminster 🙂

  152. Albaman says:

    I always knew Malky Bruce had a deep rooted hatred of the S.N.P., and that one day it would get him into trouble, well now he’s dug such a big hole, that ALL! Lib- Dems will be accommodated in it, and the best part is, he did not know he was doing it!!.

  153. Ken500 says:

    The only reason Bruce got elected was to keep the Tories out, it was the worst of two evils. Often other Parrties didn’t stand. Bruce did nothing for the NE for thirty years, but gained plenty for himself. In the landowners’ pocket stopping progress. The Libdem liars.

  154. Liz S says:

    Sermon according to BRUCE re political colleague he has who , like others he knows , is a LIAR too :

    ” He has taken the consequences , he has FORFEITED his severance pay as a minister ‘

    No No Mr Bruce HE , like YOU and Willie Rennie , now all FORFEIT your rights to challenge what you deem to be ‘LIES’ as told by any of your political opponents, mainly SNPBAD, who, being the enemy, your radars are always tracking. Second chances all round I think.

    After all you do not want to add ‘Hypocrisy’ as well as ‘LIARS’ to your political mantra with your recent combined attitude and behaviour in this matter. Do you ?

  155. Pissed off with you all says:

    I take it you believe that Alex Salmond should have resigned over lying over non-existent legal advice on EU membership?

    Or is this just the usual cybernat bullshit?

  156. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I take it you believe that Alex Salmond should have resigned over lying over non-existent legal advice on EU membership?”

    Allow me to help you be better informed:

    No need to thank me.

  157. Liz S says:

    Pissed off with you all says:

    29 May, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    I take it you believe that Alex Salmond should have resigned over lying over non-existent legal advice on EU membership?

    Or is this just the usual cybernat bullshit?

    My response :

    I say to you cam the spam please your on the wrong website.

    Also “Pissed off with you all and cybernat bullshit” – says it all really doesn’t it.

    Have a nice day anyway.

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