The dangers of the kneejerk
We’re so used to reading doom-and-gloom predictions about the apocalyptic future that would await an independent Scotland, readers, that to our shame we occasionally fall foul of a trap we never stop warning you about – reading the headline of a story and not paying attention to the words below.
The one above is a case in point.
Because, like you may have done, we immediately assumed “Oh no, another load of old rubbish about how Scotland would just be one giant terrorist explosion the day after independence without the protection of the mighty UK intelligence services, etc.”
But that wasn’t the story at all. And if we’d been halfway alert it was silly of us to think it was, because the Evening Standard is a London regional paper, and why would they care about a lot of Jocks getting blown to kingdom come by Al-Qaeda?
Rather, the piece had a different concern.
That’s right – nobody thinks WE’D be getting murdered, but that our bumbling Caledonian incompetence would let fundamentalist nutjobs get into England, and fill every available space there with Semtex.
Now, there are all sorts of incredibly obvious stupidities in that argument, but there’s something else quite interesting about it. It says that even if terrorists had open-door access to an independent Scotland, they’d only be passing through on their way to bomb targets in the rUK.
Or in other words, detaching ourselves from the UK would mean nobody wanted to kill us any more. We don’t know about you, readers, but that seems to us an altogether more cheering story about an independent future than it initially appeared.
Old news, about two months ago.
Recycled keich.
It’s self-evident; after all, Scotland has no natural enemies.
How do you do that winky-smiley thing again?
Here is a link to the Herald’s take on the original
http://archive.today/2013.05.01/http://nickqizhu.github.io/dc.js/
Quite a big difference to the spin for the Evening Standard one.
We could encourage baggage handlers at airports to take more [but not fag] breaks. This method has worked in the past.
So all the new independent Scottish Government will need to do is erect signs in Arabic, directing Al Qaeda and other fundamentalist Islamist terror groups to the English border. We could also open stores selling Semtex to bring in some revenue for Chancellor Swinney to spend on dualling the A9.
It also feels like the foundations being laid to legitimise the UK state to spy on it’s newly independent neighbour. They will do anyway of course since no one seems willing to challenge the extraordinary breach of our human rights conducted by GCHQ, seemingly a law unto themselves. But this sounds like it could be justified in the interests of UK national security should Snowden still be on this earth doing his duty in years to come. I personally hope the Scottish government can make real attempts at blocking UK state spying, but who knows what will happen.
This is another extension of too wee,poor,stupid.
How could terrorists be remotely interested in the wasteland that is Scotland?
So you were right in your knee-jerk reaction.
You mean Scotland could become a hotbed recruiting ground for insurgents and commie spies like,… err England?
Unlikely I’d have thought.
But I’m sure we could stop all those Westminster Nut jobs crossing over into Scotland!
Ah, but the border patrol would stop said terrorists. Wouldn’t it?
We’re too stupid, folks. RUSI:-
“Scotland could not create a meaningful intelligence agency that was credible with other agencies, at least for some time…” Errr, why not?
The report talks of the “potential” loss (there we go again – not assured, but maybees, could be, etc)of the “Five Eyes” intelligence sharing deal Britain has with the US, Australia, Canada & NZ. Soooo…. we’ve been in union for 300 years with UK, we’re an advanced liberal democratic state in Europe, we’re a member of NATO, we’ll continue to be a member of NATO, we already (as part of the UK) share intelligence, we’ll continuee to have a land border with England, rUK are concerned (as are we) of terrorist activity, BUT!…they’re not going to let us be part of an intelligence sharing deal post-indy?!
You couldn’t make this shit up.
Have they never heard of John( we’ll set aboot ye ) Smeaton 😀
Border Collies Gretna to Berwick
Considering that “The Royal United Services Institute” gets its mail at Whitehall, I’d take whatever they say with a bucket of salt.
Obvious solution is for England to become independent too, then Al Qaeda will just shoot straight through on their way to – er – Guernsey?
BNP, UKIP et al…It would seem the fundamentalist nutjobs are already in London.
Have you any idea how much problem we’re having at the moment getting our road signs duplicated into Gaelic proudscot?
What sort of chaos do you think will happen when we start adding a THIRD language to our road signs. 😉
Thanks fdor the suggestion of opening a Semtex store by the way. I’ve been wondering if there was something I could do as a self employed independent Scot. You’ve just provided the answer proudscot. We’re all used to the usual “last services before the motorway”, “last hotel before the border” type of signs. Well thanks to ps I’ve got a new one, “Last Semtex store before the border.” It should be an explosive location! 😛
It’s terrorism Rev. but not as we know it. 🙂
It is ironic that the apparent targets of this fear-bomb, don’t actually have a vote (i.e. the rUK). Is Westminster already drumming up support for a hardline stance during negotiations?
R U S I :-
Royal Unreformed Stalwarts of Imperialism
So it would be in RUk’s best interest to cooperate with Scotland’s intelligence services?
Glad we cleared another scare story up!!!
It is a mad house down there. Just watched STV news thing with future Lord Ian Davidson MP asking top UKOK Treasury Civil Servant Sir Nicholas Macpherson if he thought he broke civil service impartial non partisan codes and his answer was, “There was no pressure put on me to make public my opinion.” Low cunning from a bunch of spivs and shyters.
Is it safe to go o/t?
Ex politician Broon has just been on STV news. He is furious about the MOD blocking a report on the radioactive waste on Dalgety Bay beach.
If a journalist doesn’t ask why a former PM didn’t know about this, then it is an admission from the MSM that they are unionist lickspittles.
I think I am capable of scratching my soft underbelly without Westminster assistance when independence arrives.
I expect that rather than a briefing against independence, which it is of course, this is also a rebuke to those claiming established agencies wouldn’t co-operate or share information with ours.
That or we’ll have rUK spies in Scotland keeping an ey on things. It’ll be a bit like the policeman in “Allo Allo” only they’ll be in Jimmy wigs and kilts.
@proudscot
He’ll need to wait for the A9 til after the A1 has been done to take all the extra terrorist trafic heading to England.
Aye, we’ll need to tell they terrorists that England starts the other side of the Tweed as we might want Berwick back some day in one piece.
@ Brotyboy
“Scotland has no natural enemies”. Really? I can think of at least one.
Absolutely Juteman , particularly as SEPA was aware from 1990!
David Cameron will arrive in Scotland tomorrow,and he promises to evoke the spirit of John Smith the late Labour leader,he will use this to show you can be both Scottish and British. Mr Cameron said “I intend to meet REAL people” Mr Cameron then went on to say, “I also intend to stay the night in Scotland. Jim Murphy and Frank Roy, both Labour politicians are to be given bigger roles, in the run up to the referendum vote.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/671d0a5a-db4c-11e3-94ad-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31iEGsOOE
Does this mean our pensions wont be safe in an independant Scotland as our NI records are all held in Newcastle and that will be the first major city in the rUK that the terrorists / slimy green space monsters hit after landing in Scotland to go terrorise the English?
Still its nice to know that the unintended consequences of pooling and sharing will mean that all the rUK records will be lost too so their pensions will also be at risk.
TBF to RUSI they have at least produced sane predictions of future Scottish defence requirements, unlike most of the loonionists.
I hope I am not spilling too many of the beans, but our highly effective intelegence service in Scotland might well be expanded in the future and still based on the wee wifey up the close scenario.. I’m not saying this out loud, but my aunty Irene knew everything when I was growing up..
Don’t worry, we’ve got it covered. Jean from No Borders and all her pals from the brass band will be our equivalent of security sirens, givin it laldy on the tenor horn, trumpet, oompah and trombone to alert our English neighbours of impending attacks from every known species of rampaging haggis.
To err is human,to f@ck things up completely requires a Unionist.
Another story that spins the exact opposite of what would happen
Ditch UK foreign policy and our popularity around the world would rise
Well, this run up to Independence lark is fun isn’t it?
To think this party has a real chance of doing well south of the border, not to mention, winning a EU seat in Scotland, another good reason to vote.
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/05/13/strip-public-of-the-vote-says-ukip-candidate
Andy-B
I’m planning on doing all I can to help Magnus Nielsen, with his desire to “start reducing the number of people entitled to vote” in Westminster elections. I’m, voting YES in September and I’ll not be the only one. 🙂
To be fair, I have some sympathy with people hundred of miles away in London thinking too many Scots lack the ability to gather and organise intelligence.
They are probably aware that perhaps 25% of Scots believe the complete sh1te written and said about an independent Scotland. The clincher would be watching a BBC Scotland news programme.
Private polling conducted by the Westminster government, suggests support for independence,is growing irrespective of the argument advanced by David Cameron, says Bloomberg.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-13/cameron-said-to-weigh-more-autonomy-for-scots-before-vote.html
We’d probably get more paedos here too
Bugger (the Panda) said – Border Collies Gretna to Berwick.
Can we also train up some Dandie Dinmonts as special forces or at least part of the Border Terriertorials !
@Alfresco
I can’t think who you could possibly mean.
Again with the how do you do the wee winky-smiley thing??
The ramblings of the UKIP crackpot made me laugh so much I missed an important clue in Murder She Wrote. Damn!
😉
Brotyboy
; or ; plus ) or (
Just had a telephone call from a pal in sheltered housing,in western Edinburgh, she’s been door-stepped by a pollster from one of the big polling organizations asking about her favourite reading material. When survey was complete pollster thanked her and said, had she been living in England, she would have been paid twenty pounds for her troubles. Pollster then went on to ask about her voting intentions in the referendum . . . I like the style!
@Brtyboy.
You do the wee winky-smiley thing by typing ; – ) together.
I’ve separated them so you can see them.
This is a very good article into the insight of UKIP, and even though they’re seen as a mainly racist party,by the public, plenty of people will still vote for them,the phenomena,is know as “Racist Populism”.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-voters-think-ukip-racist-will-vote-it-anyway-1448527
Same old shit. The only thing they haven’t ran with yet is “Vote No to pump more fanny”.
Sorry for the language, whit a load o pish. At least it’s not the whole of civilisation as we know it.
So their main argument for us to stay in the union is to threaten us with all their les do they not realize that is the very reason that we want to leave and to even suggest we could not manage on our own we are the small nation who have given the world all the major inventions that have benefited mankind We have an abundance of talent just waiting to be set free alas we also have an abundance of ("Tractor" - Ed)s as we’ll Vote yes
TYRAN, well it’s definitely a better prospect than having no Eurovision or Dr.Who.
George Osborne, warning Scots that they will be stopped from using Sterling, (again). Mr Osborne said we’d no longer be able to mint our own distinctive pound bank notes. Mr Osborne said we’d need to wait for enough note and coins to come north of the border, then try and keep it in the country.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7ee8858-db77-11e3-a460-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31iEGsOOE
When we set up our own intelligence service, let’s just hope that some numpty or person with a very perverse sense of humour doesn’t decide to let Johann Lamont or Margret Curran run the agency! 😀 That would be scary!
I am now concerned by the present open border with the Republic of Ireland. Surely all the terrorist groups must be getting in through that open border? Concerned of Dundee. Shan’t be able to sleep tonight because of that open border. Very worried…
Tyran
spilt ma tea all over myself ya rascal.
When we vote yes we really will be pumpin phannies
We really should get this on print and hand it out . A magazine form or something and a large comments page.
We all enjoy a laugh and showing the rUK what were laughing at might change their tune.
Saying that Johanne L . never has a smile on her crabbit old face. Wonder why…..?
Maybe we could take down all the signposts and the terrorists wouldn’t know which way south was?
What?
it worked in the war!
Juteman says
“If a journalist doesn’t ask why a former PM didn’t know about this, then it is an admission from the MSM that they are unionist lickspittles.”
Especially when they are well aware he can sit at his kitchen window and watch his dog playing in the beach
yes he’s THAT CLOSE!
@TYRAN
You seem to forget that the underbelly “hit squads” will be pumping all the fanny at newcastle lol
Those lovely geordie girls will keep them occupied while london is evacuated !
If you really want to pump fannies, vote Yes .
Tories being deployed to Scotland are being issued with a revised map to show them how to get there.
Above the region labelled “The North”, the usual legend “Here be dragons” has been scored out and a somewhat diminutive and faint outline of Scotland has been penciled in.
On the back of the map, is the mission statement for the operation:
“Lie, back, and think of England”.
Preparation is all.
Marcia is “very worried”. Phew, at least HMG Better Together terrorism is working, though I think you’d probably be considered collateral damage for this particular sortie. Still, if you were close enough to take damage you were obviously a baddy.
Vronsky says
“Obvious solution is for England to become independent too, then Al Qaeda will just shoot straight through on their way to – er – Guernsey?”
Never crossed swords with the Bailiwicks security services Vronsky have you?
They make Mossad look like beginners man, they’re deadly,
I’ve said too much,
know any good plastic surgeons who can keep their mouth shut?
@Andy-B
“Mr Cameron said “I intend to meet REAL people””
Bet he doesn’t want to meet me! I’m a real person, aren’t I? Why doesn’t he want to meet me?! 🙁
I mean ok, I’d probably spend most of our meeting time ranting loudly at him and calling him things that I’d probably be best not to type out here for fear of making the Rev set a new record time for diving at the “Perma-ban” button.
But that doesn’t mean I won’t be open to his counter-arguments, even as I’m inventing new insults to use on him. I can multi-task like that, you see…
Hurts my feelings that he doesn’t want to meet me! 🙁
Anyways, back on topic.
I find that the idea of terrorists getting into Scotland really doesn’t scare me.
Not like they’d want to attack an independent Scotland after all. What do we have that would give them a reason to attack us? (Especially after we get rid of those annoying nuclear subs cluttering up our nice tidy waterways and making our beaches glow in the dark!)
As for the idea of them passing through to attack England… Does that mean that England’s security services will cease to be effective after independence?
(Or will they be too busy being ordered to come up to Scotland and sabotage things just out of pure spite?!)
Also I’d like to point out that due to some posts here using the words “Cameron”, “terrorist” and “bomb” in the same thread, we’re all now under very close observation…
*waves cheerfully to MI6 and the NSA…*
Hello folks 😀 Pull up a seat, grab a username and join in the friendly banter!
And the UK would kick us out of 5 eyes ? Aye. Right.
Did the Chairchoob not ask Gidiot what his plan B is if we tell him to stick the pound and the debt up his hairy erse?
@Marcia – that moisturiser has worked a treat,fair brings oot your complexion
Other than an appeal to retain friendship, the goodwill of “we really, really like you,” affection still happily received after a Yes vote, is anybody able to point me to a single statement from the status quo side that is a bona fide good reason to stay with the UK?
That’s a genuine question.
Taking a cue from the “bombardment” commemorating millions killed in the Great War, such material sentiment is as hard to find as a war poet who glorified in war.
Article on channel 4 website.
The Cabinet Office has denied a request from Channel 4 News to reveal the findings of its polls into Scottish independence – and said it is “not usual practice” to reveal the findings of its research, which it says was always intended to be internal only.
So we pay for a poll but it’s none of out business to see the results. So much for government working for the people.
I believe Cameron is getting all dressed up for his visit to Scotland
https://www.flickr.com/photos/expd/14159672336
Its quite amazing really. They never seem to tire of opening their mouths and inserting their feet. 🙂
The potential for a ‘soft underbelly’ alluded to by RUSI already exists. There are no border checks between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland/UK.
If any terrorist group needs a soft underbelly other than that already provided by the anonimity of London – Monaghan (where I have extended family)is a lovely spot.
RUSI spending too much time in the NAAFI?
“@Marcia – that moisturiser has worked a treat,fair brings oot your complexion”
With you on that croompy,
marcia’s hot grrrr
where’s the Major when you need him?
oh I’ll do it myself
ding dong
just don’t forget it wasn’t me who used the Bates Motel analogy, oh?
Intelligence services. We’ll manage just fine. I think we Scots are pretty good at identifying and dealing with dark international forces trying to undermine democracy and carry out wicked underhand acts. Took just a few hours to uncover VNB, didn’t it!?
Ach nae worries; them foreigner terrorist types will no make it past Rory Stewart and his human chain on Hadrian’s wall.
Yup, we must vote no cos we need the UK’s covert-dark-black-op-arts to keep us safe. They are experts at it, as was demonstrated by the secret Vote No Borders Astroturf campaign.
FFS It’s the full moon tonight but when full moon coupon Cameron comes up he’s just gonnae confuse everybody. Who are the ‘real’ people he’s meeting? Nob Orders Jean? wonder if he’ll speak to Ponsonby this time
Jock McDonnell says
“And the UK would kick us out of 5 eyes ? Aye. Right.”
Aye because it would make abundant sense to remove the eyes in the Greenland UK gap?
cynicalHighlander
FFS! My eyes! My eyes!
John King,
‘know any good plastic surgeons who can keep their mouth shut?’
Marcia does!
To the Minister for Garbage
We need extra bins on the Moray coast for the Russian “trawlermen” and aircraft carrier groups to use. They made a real mess last time.
Action this day
It is important to remember “our” UK intelligence service could not get to the bottom of the plebgate scandal 10 metres from the front door of number 10.
Any intelligence service Scotland may have could not do any worse.
Enough with the erotic chat about soft underbellies!
The Standard’s aim here is to stop Londoners (especially those working in the press and TV) having any sympathy for independence.
Anybody else believe in the Scrabble theory of inteligence agencies, where the “good” guys have low word counts like CIA and MI5 and the “baddies” high ones like NKVD, GCHQ and VNB?
/* waves to GCHQ and says Hi */
@JimnArlene
Now, now. As though you didn’t know that without the South East of England there would be no civilisation!
And no God without the Anglican church. ;(
cearc @8.28
I couldn’t afford Marcia’s Plastic surgeon 🙂
You know, I thought thinks were getting pathetic a few weeks ago. Now it is so far beyond pathetic that it can only be seen as a joke.
I thought all these Westminster government departments recruited the brightest and the best from Cambridge and Oxford? Waste of wages I think. Useless cunts haven’t a scooby and that great big dirty hole just keeps getting deeper.
The ES page runs with the headline and a picture of the evil Alicsammin immediately below it. Now, I know that Alicsammin never said this, however…
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/independence-would-turn-scotland-into-soft-underbelly-for-terrorists-9368336.html
Thanks Rev, for that blast from the past in the pic’s title! From when the BBC was good, or before we found it out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRSYe3nJUzg
Morecambe and Wise – all the news that’s fit to print, in 55 seconds.
It’s not the thinks Thepnr dear, it’s the thunks.
“our bumbling Caledonian incompetence would let fundamentalist nutjobs get into England,”
Away you go. I saw those PPBs you put up the other evening. England is already full of fundamentalist nut jobs.
Anyway, if a load of mad terrorists did want to use Scotland to come into England, they could do it more easily now than if we were independent. The coasts of Scotland are hardly well protected.
Has the London Evening Standard not heard of the Tartan Army?
dunno how any nation manages without being controlled by the british elite governments.
O/T There hasn’t been a monthly Daily Record poll for nearly 5 weeks. It’s usually on a Thursday. Tomorrow morning? Anyone know?
O.T
A wee look out for a report on a YES/NO debate held at Denny baptist church featuring Dennis Canavan on ITN news at ten tonight.
“Reports are of standing room only at the meeting in Denny Baptist Church tonight. Covered by ITN for News at Ten tomorrow night. Well done to everyone concerned for another successful public meeting which was judged to be 70% YES!”
Report on YES Falkirk Facebook page. Mind give these hard working folk a ‘like’ on their Facebook page. 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/YesFalkirk
An independent Scotland is going to be a member of NATO.
NATO shares intelligence vital to the cohesion of the organisation, the safety and security of its members (this is after all the prime purpose of the alliance). This whole sharade can only become an issue if rUK exits the EU and NATO.
Also Police Scotland are part of Interpol who routinely share information on terrorist and organised crime operations across borders and I doubt the polis in England will take the huff and stop cooperating on a ‘yes vote’.
I think this quote must come from the RUSI Tea Lady, Ethyl, because if I was an academic at the RUSI I would be embarrassed putting my name to this.
cognitive dissonance
1) “The existence of dissonance, being psychologically uncomfortable, will motivate the person to try to reduce the dissonance and achieve consonance”
2) “When dissonance is present, in addition to trying to reduce it, the person will actively avoid situations and information which would likely increase the dissonance”
Yeah Paula I know. Always thunking too far ahead of my typing. LOL
Here, will the terrorists not need to get into England anyway? They bank in the City, don’t they? Aren’t there rather a lot of ‘suspects’ already living in England?
“Many hundreds of billions of pounds of international criminal money is almost certainly laundered through UK banks, including their subsidiaries, each year.” The UK National Crime Agency clearly isn’t shy of big numbers, however imprecise, in its National Strategic Assessment of Serious and Organised Crime 2014 but its assertion also prompts the time-honoured questions…
http://www.moneylaunderingbulletin.com/moneylaundering/
City ‘haven’ for terrorist money laundering
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2001/oct/10/personalfinancenews.warinafghanistan2001
Britain’s ‘safe haven’ past
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1178419.stm
Sort of O/T but to do with intelligence gathering – twice now I have been to the VNB site (since it rose from nowhere) for a wee explore and both times I have had subsequent problems and had to do a clean re-start. Discovering of course all sorts of nasties in the trash can.
The Westminster HMG constantly threatens bullies and tries to terrorise the people of North Britain with the purpose of cowering us into subservience and interfering in our democratic right to self determination.
There is an offence of breach of the peace by putting the lieges in a state of fear and alarm, should our constabulary not be considering this with these posh tossers from the big smoke, liars, thieves and con artists to boot, spivs and wasters, scum.
Since this is HM government can I presume that They are threatening and terrorising us with Betty’s consent and agreement since I don’t hear her objecting. They really are despicable worthless parasites. The sooner we are rid of them the better.
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. Only a week or so ago they were ranting on about iScotland suffering due to a lack of “Intellence” as they would not be sharing with us. Another daft threat.
More recycled garbage – expect this week in week out till 19th September!
O/T
A little poking around the link Paula Rose posted for collaborativescotland.org (supporting VNB?), and look what I found. Might not be news and I’m not jumping to conclusions, just pointing to some facts.
Contacts for the above, are either John Sturrock or Jolene Robinson, at 0131 524 8199. Now Mr. Sturrock is the founder and CEO of Core Solutions Group, with Ms. Robinson the Business and Mediation Manager. Core Solutions Group are listed by newsnetscotland, as a members of the CBI (not a crime in itself).
Is this a public subsidy and is it being accounted for?
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/1359-cbi-scotland-who-does-it-speak-for
http://www.core-solutions.com/page/35-key-people
http://collaborativescotland.org/about-us/
Is this a public subsidy and is it being accounted for?
I don’t expect Core Solutions are ideologically driven. 🙂
Stu’s on a roll. Excellent stuff. Can hardly keep up.
Why would terrorists come to Scotland. They could just go to London. It’s quicker and easier.
The ‘London’ Evening Standard just doesn’t realise, any terrorist threat to Scotland comes from Westminster’s foreign policies and Westminster promoted illegal Wars etc. The threat to Scotland comes from London, including Scottish revenues subsidising and protecting London S/E. These ungrateful Brits. ‘London Evening Standard’s, sub-standard reporting.
The irony. The ‘London’s Evening Standard’s’, headline at the top of the page above the (fairy) story.
‘ICC will investigate alleged abuse by British Army in Iraq’.
What Terrorists? …Is that the ones George Orwell warned us about?
Drug money is fuelling the US/world economy. There are estimates the world economy would collapse without laundered drug money.
Anyone else just watch Crash Gordon on STV pretend he didn’t know Dalgetty Bay was poisoned by his MOD? TeamGB spooks must have hidden that file from the former Chancellor and Prime Minister Gordon Brown of three terms in office.
How dumb they must think Scotland is.
Really I think GB’s history with both AD and DA is toxic. So far, so normal re Gordo. I think he is a psychotic personality, period. Basically, its all good.
Safe haven for terrorists: check
Illegal weapons of mass destruction: check
Extremist dictatorship government: check
Can I suggest the Meadows for the green zone when the tanks roll in? The site of the Fort would probably work well an aw what with the perimeter fence being there already.
Roll on September when this guff ends. Every time they tell us we canny deal with security, we canny look after our pensioners, we canny look after our oil reserves, we canny afford it…. Every time they say Scotland canny do it: what do they mean?
They don’t mean the country we live in, the land we live on. They mean us, the Scottish people and that means each and every one of us canny do it. Not me, not you, your parents and your children.
And if you are lucky enough to have grandchildren now or at some point in the future, sorry, but they just are incapable of making a fist of this sovereign democracy thing.
Of the couple of hundred countries on this earth we are blessed with advantages that the vast majority would give their eye teeth for yet we all canny do it.
I know they are wrong, and we are going to prove it to them.
As for being a safe haven for terrorists, does it never occur to these doughballs that mibbe some people want to see a future where we are not in a permanent war of terror with Islamic fundamentalists?
Maybe that kind of perpetual war with eurasia or eastasia or whatever is great for the arms industry but it doesnt really work for ordinary people.
Scotland can be a beacon for disarmament, diplomacy and peace and to suggest were going to become some kind of failed state is repugnant.
Vote Yes with confidence.
Project fear has turned in on themselves. the lies still come thick and fast but it is they who are scared.
When will I learn? Just got drawn unintentionally into a debate with a no voter on Facebook. Seriously, it is like banging your head off a wall. In what reality is having a huge oil reserve not a good thing?? Oh, the volatility… FFS!
why hide a poll taken in jan ?
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/14/scotland-wild-beaver-reintroduced-knapdale#start-of-comments
And finally, after a n other long day of being lied to by weirdo unionists over and over, anyone else catch the blinkyness of old Iain Gray who’s contracted the Flipper’s blinking condition on STV tonight. His left eye has it the worst but its spreading to his right.
Anyway England really loves Scottish beavers but Scottish beavers are still voting no, says beaver botherer Severin Carrell, who signs off, they’re also too small, stupid, poor, proud Scots but.
According to James Kelly, Twitter, new Survation poll:-
No 56% (excl DK)
Yes 44% (excl DK)
I knew from the headline it would be of one or two things: either
Exactly, the same sort of nonsense that tries to paint Scotland’s historic resilience against invasion in almost childish sour grapes. You see it all the time: the Romans didn’t “bother” conquering Scotland because there was “nothing there” – ignoring that Hadrian and Antoninus only built their walls when they realised they couldn’t conquer the Caledonian tribes. Likewise, despite successive Scandinavian kings invading the western isles, the far north and southeast, the Vikings never conquered Scotland not because there was “nothing there,” but because they were unable. I don’t even need to tell you about the many English attempts to invade a land where there was apparently “nothing there.”
And now the narrative is that, at best, Scotland would be beneath the notice of mighty Al-Quaeda and other Enemies of the West, and at worst, actually facilitate groundwells of Islamic terrorism. This is not new: in the ’60s and ’70s they warned that Scottish independence would make Scotland a base for the IRA and other Irish terrorists during the Troubles; in the ’30s and ’40s it was fascists and Nazi sympathisers; in the early 20th century it was Bolshevists and Communists…
The running theme, of course, is that it’s always the danger it would present to England. The people of Scotland are almost secondary: what really matters is that England would be threatened by Scotch Bolshevists/Fascists/Republicans.
Marginally related: I saw C.J. Samsom’s Dominion in the charity shop. The plot is essentially about the Fall of the UK to Germany – brought about in part by the SNP actively colluding with the Nazis. Samson is one of Better Together’s biggest donors. I was actually morbidly interested in buying it to see just how bad it could be, but frankly, I’ve enough good books yet to read before I can dignify this oaf with my time and attention.
BTW Iain McWhirter didn’t look at all well on Newsnight Scotland tonight – too much sun maybe.
But it was noticeable that the programme director kept poor Iain on screen as much as possible.
Nah, he wouldn’t do that intentionally would he ?
Not on the BBC.
No half.
I did amateur research on Scotland’s radiation sites.
I have a little knowledge of radiation. I worked for an offshore module manufacturer supplying Douneray.
Regarding Dalgety Bay radiation, I found info online saying its unsafe for 1500years. Thats the equivalent time period back to Roman Britain of 500AD.
Radiation damage is at its worst if its injested, digested or inhaled.
Even the slightest radioactive particle if consumed is extremely dangerous to health.
Therefore for Dalgety Bay, no beach picnics, no dog walking, no sand on shoes or dog, no sandcastles. No windy days to blow particles off site.
Like Chernobyl its only safe if concreted over, in this case at least 1500years!
Gordon Brown as the MP and Prime Minister would’ve been informed of all the above. And therefore he exposed his constituents to cancer.
Time to launch a new Ad agency. Our fifth column.
From Newsnet.
“The move by Alexander to bring in advertising agencies to help the No campaign followed revelations yesterday that the UK Government had handed a £30,000 contract to a PR company which has links to the Better Together campaign.
Engine PR’s partner is Better Together Director Craig Harrow. The SNP has called for an inquiry into how tens of thousands of pounds of public cash came to be awarded to Mr Harrow’s company.
Harrow is the convener of the Scottish Lib Dems and also the former election agent to Treasury Chief, Lib Dem MP Danny Alexander.”
Ouch, it isn’t a hole !, PFs been torn a new chasm.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9183-alexander-turns-to-ad-agencies-in-last-ditch-attempt-to-save-no-campaign
@Ken500
“Drug money is fuelling the US/world economy. There are estimates the world economy would collapse without laundered drug money”
I agree your statement above.
DRUGS are now 3rd most traded commodity, with OIL and GOLD.
ps. Its true, HSBC caught laundering drug money.
@taranaich
You could, of course extend your theme further to England being worried about Scotland being a back door for Catholic plotters to take advantage of, and before that to being a back door for French skulduggery. It’s a theme almost as old as the history of our two nations, and although I hate seeing it crop up again, I can hardly say I’m surprised.
The truth is that history – and the attitudes formed in historical times – don’t die. It’s uncomfortable to acknowledge that, which is why most people don’t give it much credence. But the pattern is all too clear for those who care to watch.
RUSI sits at the heart of Whitehall, but that doesn’t mean its work is worthless to us. Chalmers, perhaps its most active member, is very UK-centric, and sees everything from the rUK point of view. It’s a bit of a weakness as in “know your enemy”, but his views are interesting.
What RUSI says about it taking time for the Scottish Security and Intelligence Service to earn trust is of course correct. It could be a shambles and leaky as a sieve, or it could be more solid and sealed than any of the current UK lot. Only time will tell.
The advantage for Independent Scotland of reports about “soft underbelly”, something which is potentially true in defence overall, an undefended or poorly defended Scotland leaving the door open to the rUK, from all sorts of nasties including Hammond’s aliens, is that it must surely increase the awareness of the rUK that they will be forced to co-operate in Intel and Defence with iScotland, like it or not, or face the consequences.
Something I’m increasingly confident the rUK establishment is well aware of, though they won’t like to tell us that.
Naturally. I imagine in the future UK seen in Star Trek Into Darkness an independent Scotland would be seen as a backdoor for Romulan insurgents, Hyperdrive warns against Red Shiny Robots of Vortis colluding with Scottish Nationalists, and Children of Men… well, actually that seems to be a PPB for UKIP anyway.
Is Mr Cameron going to be visiting Crikey Cold day when he pays a visit ?
Anyone visited the Herald this morning ?
Your in for a treat!
Negativity is rife.
Wonder how their circulation figures are doing.
The Standard piece IS just another scare story but it seems to me that it, and some of the responses to it here, do point towards an issue that we need to be aware of.
Among many of us, self included, there’s a deep revulsion at the suffering and waste caused by the last shakings of British imperialism that Westminster calls a “defence policy”. That revulsion and the right thinking rejection of aggressive wars, Trident et al leads some to gloss over the fact that we will need to be able to defend ourselves.
As the White Paper and the consultatuion document “Securing the Nation” show we can have a much more effective, true defence similar to Denmark, Norway et al at a readily affordable price.
It’s worth remembering and recognising that we are not naive about the realities that living in a world shaped and angered by economic, political and military imperialism will impose on our country.
Good Grief. Things must be more desperate for them than I thought. First we have Cameron coming to Scotland to talk to REAL people – as opposed to what, I wonder? And now to put the tin lid on matters, it is being reported that The Village Idiot – wee Dougie – is in consultation with a PR company as the Bitter Together campaign is not seen as being negative enough….or something.
Cameron is coming..oo John Smith..oo Patriotic Scot but..oo They just don’t get it it’s got nothing to do with patriotism you dishfaced git.
Why doesn’t he just tell the truth, we need your resources cmon Scotch you are all rabid socialists so what you get back less than you put in but hey pooling and sharing eh! And we really need somewhere to keep our WMD christ knows we can’t have them near London and we really need to stay on UN Security Council.
Who knows, it may well work moon coupon..
David Cameron will visit Scotland today and give another Better Together cowardly speech.
He will tell lies from behind a wall of security, telling us that we need to stay within the UK, but won’t stay and debate to give us the reasons why we should stay.
He is an English Etonian coward.
He will mention John Smith, ex Labour leader, as a “proud Scot but…”
I have a feeling that John Smith was in the same mould as Dennis Canavan.
John Smith was demanding a Scottish Parliament in 1990, so why wouldn’t he be wanting full Independence in 2014, just like Dennis Canavan.
So I think David Cameron choosing John Smith as a ultra-Scots Unionist could backfire on him.
Would be good to hear Dennis Canavan’s views on John Smith, regarding Scottish Independence.
Aye Gardham et al supplying Lament & Co with todays FMQ’s with evidence free assertions and editorial.
Does get difficult sometimes to justify buying the Sunday edition when you get 6 days of Salmond accused.
Beat me to it Croompenstein, although dish faced git is a far better description than I would have come up with. When will these people listen, forget Braveheart and all that, this is about self determination, a chance to improve peoples lives. We’re not just flag waving here.
David Clegg, political editor at the Daily Record and Sunday Mail, is doing his bit today for his Tory pals.
He has published another mickey mouse poll in the Record today, just in time for his hero, David Cameron’s visit to Scotland.
No wonder the Daily Record sales figures are nose diving.
Irishman David Clegg, would rather Scotland was governed by a Tory government from Westminster.
So, maybe after a YES victory, David Clegg will move to England to continue to be governed by his Tory hero, David Cameron.
“Who’s John Smith?”, my dad.
Few know who this guy is or care. It means nothing.
So David Cameron is visiting North Britain for 2 days. I bet he will be accompanied by wee Ruth who will stomp all over the country with him, except Glasgow. He will meet with ordinary Scots, you know the ones in the Vote No Borders posters- that’ll be fun. He’ll need an interpreter for that.
Next, Dave will focus all afternoon on Europe. He and Nosheena Mobarik, a Tory prospective MEP, and the CBI Chair in Scotland!
http://www.scottishbordersconservatives.org.uk/person/nosheena-mobarik
They will tell us about the hokey cokey IN/OUT referendum and explain why Scottish farmers will have the worst EU payouts by 2019.
Dave will give us an update on the Big Society. Here is a reminder of its priorities:
Give Communities more powers (localism and devolution)
Encourage people to take an active role in their communities(volunteerism)
Transfer power from central to local government
Support co-ops, mutual, charities and social enterprises
Publish government data(open/transparent government)
Dave will report that the huge increase in Food banks, with a promise of more to come, are delivering his policies, for the benefit for all.
Dave will reveal the results of the secret poll on Scottish Independence, Hah!
Finally, Dave will get interviewed by Bernard Ponsonby, who will have a surprise for him. Bernard has a scoop and will have Alex Salmond appear to have that much desired face to face debate.
Nice to see No Better Together UKOKs are running to Saatchi and Saatchi for help.
http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/1294345/better-together-campaign-overhaul-marketing-ahead-scottish-independence-vote/?
What’s with these resurrectionists in labour and now the tories, extolling the virtues and memory of bygone figures.
The ‘best prime minister we never had’. Jeez, I’ve seen that El Cid and a good film it was too but FGS!
Has Dave not got some of his own he can bring back to enthuse us… Maggie!..Oh! or Enoch!, Oh UKip have him signed up. I see what they mean. Winston then Nachh!
Chancers all picking up a theme like that, where any other decent party looks on and has to keep stumpph! and so it goes.
I’m off to work, catch up later.
David Cameron on two-day visit to Scotland.
Is he actually going to stay the night in Scotland or is it going to be two separate day trips?
And where is he going to?
Anyone else notice that when someone is coming from England to Scotland, they will mention the exact town that they are leaving from in England, yet never mention the town they are visiting in Scotland.
They will say they are travelling from Portsmouth to Scotland or Manchester to Scotland, etc…
They have it in DNA, that Scotland is this singular place just past Carlisle.
Handclapping, I wouldn’t rely on the pension records in Newcastle. When I moved to Finland in the late-80s I kept up voluntary payments of my UK national insurance so I’d have a pension to look forward to. After a couple of years I wrote to Newcastle to ask about my current pension status. I was told they had “no record” of me. At that moment I decided, f**k you UK, I’m not coming back. I really hope the rest of Scotland decides the same in September.
Saatchi have a really bad reputation and not just for their “Labour’s not working” billboards that got Thatcher in. This is what its all about now. People are fully aware of just who is lying to them and why. Rupert Murdoch will be waiting to see how big a sentence his journos like queen of Fleet street Rebeccca Wade get and if its bad, he’ll back YES.
o/t
great line for osborne
“Vote yes, no ifs no buts”
“Murdoch will be waiting to see how big a sentence his journos like queen of Fleet street Rebeccca Wade get and if its bad, he’ll back YES.”
murdoch’s vengence will be swift, no doubt about it, but i’d prefer scotland to manage without him.
after the YES vote, i would expect wings, wgd and nns to emerge as the mainsteam independent newsources, indeed, i thought i saw the latest article from NNS being touted on newsnicht by brewer a couple of nights ago
GMS phone-in question,
“Is the ticket fiasco damaging the Commonwealth Games?”
No, BBC Scotland are trying to damage the Commonwealth Games.
They have highlighted EVERY problem that The Commonwealth Games organisers have came across.
BBC Scotland just don’t like this “Team Scotland” thing and will do everything in their power to destroy it.
Shops selling semtex, I’m sure that would take off with a bang.
@ Call Me Dave
There is a new TV series in the USA called just that; RESURRECTION.
People arrive at a small town in Missouri who are dead. They waken up in fields, woods in different towns and countries but make there way back to the Town.
They are not Zombies but exact copies of people from the Town who did, the first wave 10 to 20 years before and later in the series from further back. Exhumations of the original dead reveal the new versions to be identical in everything, scars, clothes and full memory, except they do not know where they have been. They have not aged during the period.
I suppose the return of the Labour big hitters is a bit like that the big difference is that these Returned have aged, and are even worse that before.
Brown, Reid, Wallace, Robertson etc are walking Zombies who are totally uncoupled from today’s reality.
I should mention that one characteristic of these Returned in the series is that they have insatiable appetites. So that lets all the Zombies in the H o L in straight away.
The people of Scotland have moved on from Brown, Darling etc and they do not know what the feck is going on today. They are legends in their own minds and are going to get the biggest shock of their lives on the 19th of September.
Am I worried, no, except for the onslaught we are going to get from the BBC and Dirty Fingered Inky Press.
We will just need to up our game.
London 2012 Olympics had similar ticket problems with ticketmaster,
But BBC Scotland don’t want to remind you of that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16430850
I talked recently to someone who was at school with John Smith and George Robertson. Whereas George Robertson he described as a “thicko” he said John Smith was “sharp as a tack” but very right wing.
This accords with the account I had from Teddy Taylor many years ago who was scathing about John Smith, Donald Dewar and several other whom he had known at Glasgow Uni who he described as Tories who had put on Labour disguise to become MPs
I was heavily involved in the campaigns to save Scottish steel in Lanarkshire. John Smith was never a part of any of the campaigns despite being a local MP. He did however continue his career in the High Courts while serving as an MP. John Smith was undoubtedly a very clever and able man and very ambitious for high office which explains perhaps why he avoided being visibly associated with the losing Scottish Steel campaign. But the present Smith project is another case of Labour rewriting the history of its past leaders
caz-m says:
“GMS phone-in question,
“Is the ticket fiasco damaging the Commonwealth Games?””
Aye caz-m listning to that, I get the feeling that its a case of “canny even run the ticketing for the games, how can we possibly run a country.
Its all part of the drip, drip effect.
I’ll celebrate when PQ finally meets its end and I hope many of those who have spent the last two years denigrating my country become outcasts.
@DME
John Smith, the legend. It took him only 1 hour to persuade my Mum to vote SNP, and I had been trying for 20 years to get her to give up her loyalty to the Labour party with no luck.
@DME
John Smith, the legend. It took him only 1 hour to persuade my Mum to vote SNP, and I had been trying for 20 years to get her to give up her loyalty to the Labour party with no luck.
OT, one to watch for?
Better together pay a pr firm for advice before the campaign period starts.
If they subsiquently take further advice from them after the campaign period starts then surely the original fee should be included in the campaign spending limits?
Also puts their passport controlled borders safely into the bullshit category we already knew it was in.
Dave McEwan Hill
Dave, I don’t know much about John Smith, but can you explain his push for a Scottish Parliament, when a lot in his Party were against it.
That is why I put him in the same frame of mind as Dennis Canavan.
Or am I miles wrong here.
@Marcia
Terrorist types from the Emerald Isle tend to disappear into the green parts of Glasgow or deepest darkest Lanarkshire as appropriate. I don’t think we need be concerned over here in Dundee.
Any that do make it this far will probably run afoul of yet another escapee from the Open Prison estate which seems to leak like a sieve.
I would say you have much more to fear from that direction.
2 main things (among a few other thoughts) in my head about the Cameron intervention. Firstly, this comes across as “I have no drive or strong feeling towards this so here, listen to someone who could put things a lot better than me”. Secondly, can’t help thinking that this could be a possible attempt to create friction between the Labour and SNP supporting groups of Yessers.
Are the people who work at The Royal United Services Institute , RUSIans?
@caz-m
“David Clegg, political editor at the Daily Record and Sunday Mail, is doing his bit today for his Tory pals.”
“Irishman David Clegg, would rather Scotland was governed by a Tory government from Westminster.”
I was watching David Clegg on biased BBC NewsnightScotland last night, he was his usual rabid pro Union.
Not surprising really his Northern Irish accent and British surname says he’s be Ulster Scot and they be rabid pro Unionist.
Can’t the Daily Record get a Scot as political editor, Glasgow is full of Scots. I guess they wanted a rabid pro Unionist.
Here in Aberdeen Daily Record tried to increase sales but due to pre internet days where their sports pages used to be full of hate of Aberdonians.
Hope the Record goes out of business soon.
caz-m
Quite a lot of Labour pushed for a devolved Scottish Parliament when it became obvious that it was the politically advantageous position to do so and that it was inevitably coming.
Most of them were in the George Robertson camp – devolution will kill the SNP.
None of them were in favour of an independent Scotland.
As I say the rewriting of history is a political art in which Labour shines (with the assistance of the media). I call it the “Father of the Nation” deception as I KNOW that Donald Dewar did NOT favour a Scottish Parliament – he only got called to duty when it actually happened to draw up conditions for the running of it which would prevent the nationalists ever getting a majority in it because George Robertson was not up to that task.
Dave McEwan Hill
It would seem Donald Dewar wasn’t up to the task either, thankfully. LOL