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Wings Over Scotland


The best of friends

Posted on September 22, 2014 by

We’ve known and documented for some time now that Scottish Labour’s attitude towards “foreigners” is, well, let’s be super-generous and say “ambiguous”. But this photo from nine days ago made even us take a sharp breath.

labfront1

The woman on the left is the Labour MP for Aberdeen South, Dame Anne Begg. She received her DBE in 2011 “for services to disabled people and to equal opportunities”. But who’s her No-campaigning pal?

Here he is, the same day. He’s slightly less keen on equal opportunities.

labfront2

labfront3

He’s Dave MacDonald, leader of National Front Scotland. He’s not a new face in the area – he was the NF’s candidate for the Aberdeen Donside by-election last year, and he’s been politically involved with the NF in the Aberdeen area since at least 2003. It would be absolutely absurd to suggest that Anne Begg didn’t know who he was.

Still, as long as he’s not one of those awful nationalists, eh?

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  1. 22 09 14 14:08

    The best of friends | FreeScotland
    Ignored

678 to “The best of friends”

  1. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart
    Ignored
    says:

    You are fucking joking me! Seriously?! Labour, hang your heads in shame.

    Funny how this wasn’t in any of the papers or on the TV…

  2. Brian B
    Ignored
    says:

    For fairness and not because I believe her, she had this to say in her twitter feed:
    “The picture was a set up. Horrible, nasty, odious people who will stoop to any level. Eugh!”

  3. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    There are also pics of Charlie Drunkard Kennedy with Coburn campaignin in Inverness. Also don’t forget how cosy Danny Alexander was with Coburn.

    Sorry I can’t find the pics now, maybe they have been taken down so as not to cause embarrassment to the clowns.

  4. eezy
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve been totally disillusioned for the last week seeing what was happening.
    This backs it up.

  5. Peter Glasgow
    Ignored
    says:

    [shakes head]

  6. Colin Erskine
    Ignored
    says:

    Anne Begg is my MP. I will be emailing her on this subject presently.

  7. eezy
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian B….Fair enough but these people have to be careful.
    They should know what’s at stake.
    Really down about all of this.
    Perhaps she was conned. She wasn’t the only one!

  8. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    wow! breathtakingly hypocritical, and shocking, esp when i think of jim murphys exhibition in ayr.
    the enemy of my enemy!

  9. Kevin meina
    Ignored
    says:

    Basically sums up how low the unionists parties sunk to to secure a no

  10. Findlay Farquaharson
    Ignored
    says:

    i hope you put everything into exposing and destroying scottish labour.

  11. ErinT
    Ignored
    says:

    David Coburn comes across as horrible – from comparing the SNP to fascists, suggesting that Salmond is like Mugabe to being opposed to gay marriage on the grounds that it breeds homophobia. Despite Coburn himself being part of that minority he really should know better and that simply hiding away does nothing to change negative views nor help progressive equality.

    Why Alexander and Kennedy (supposedly!) wanted to be seen with him when they try and campaign from the Left on these and other equality issues is beyond me!

  12. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    sip with a lang spoon

  13. Michael Annis
    Ignored
    says:

    “This pic was a set up” aye it looks like one so it does. Horses and bolted. Scottish labour knows no shame, it’s doing whatever Central Office tells them to get power and to hell with the people.

  14. scott
    Ignored
    says:

    I was with Anne on on the 18th at tullos primary school polling station when I was sent this photo by a friend, I showed it to her and she denied knowing who he was, she then said “oh well worse things have happened”.

    I’m no longer a labour party membee

  15. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Nothing excuses this.

    Labour should have remembered what happened to the LibDems when they sided with the toxic tories. This is toxicity magnified ten times.

  16. Albalha
    Ignored
    says:

    Amd in the third image is that not Labour’s Sarah Boyack to the far right (ha) of the picture?

    And if A Begg didn’t know who he was then why not? Living in the Westminster bubble indeed.

  17. CAPTKIRK
    Ignored
    says:

    Well as many have said labour has had their image destroyed in scotland they will never recover and nor do they deserve to any decent person in their right mind would not agree with the new neo liberal mindset of the 3 maain westminster parties how is neo-liberal ideas compatible with the working class answer… it cant they are diametrically opposed viewpoints and if labour should change the parties name as it actvley works against the working class utterly despicable party and its loyal supporters are beyond contempt to sell their own country down the river is unforgivable as of today i have like many joined the SNP so as to give them a massive majority in scottish parliment with the aim of not a referendum but actually DELCARING INDEPENDENCE we tried to be nice so that the uk would take minimum damage when we went indy but that route is no longer achievable as the UNION has acted shamefully to the detriment of the scottish people thereby nullifying the act of UNION.

  18. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    The National Socialist Front?

  19. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Jim Murphy said the OO should not be taken to task for their parade, as its their right, and perhaps Yes should not have been critical. I have no doubt he is in bed with them, as he is a brazen thug. The violent right wing are more active down south, but I again said to people, they will travel as rent a mob. Also England has an active network of football casuals. They all connect, that was also obvious from the George Sq crap. They have a new playground, and were invited in.

  20. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    The Battle of George Square summed it up. Nazi salutes under the Union Jack. Brits attacking Scots. Saltires being burned.

    Jim Murphy would be right at home in the National Socialist Front.

  21. eezy
    Ignored
    says:

    Albalha says:
    22 September, 2014 at 12:30 pm
    Amd in the third image is that not Labour’s Sarah Boyack to the far right (ha) of the picture?

    Sure does look like her….

  22. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Awards? After supporting illegal wars, harming and maiming millions all over the world. The Crash causing poverty and deprivation world wide.

  23. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    This the same woman who was going on about anti English attacks in Aberdeen and there she is with a fascist.

  24. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    there was no active disassociation towards far right groups.
    in fact there was active encouragement “everyone has a right to vote”, is not a disassociation, but a very well known fact.

  25. David Arnott
    Ignored
    says:

    This is what im talking about.

    Dont get angry. Dont get upset. Get practical. Get factual.

    Do this and we win!

  26. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    That is one of the most utterly depressing things about the UK – the really despicable alliances the unionist parties will forge.

    On the subject of alliances and empowerment, this from Lesley Riddoch is worth a listen if you have about 45 mins to spare. Uplifting.

  27. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Kenny Everetts “Round em up” sketch routine springs to mind ( metaphorically of course)

  28. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    OOPs

    forgot the link to Lesley Riddoch:

    http://rqs.libsyn.com/aftermath

  29. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    David MacDonald described by Anne Begg as a “neo Nazi thug” in 2004.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/tensions-rise-as-right-wing-plans-march-1-558566

  30. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m prepared to believe she didn’t know who he was. A great many Labour MPs take little interest in what is going in their own constituencies.

  31. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    Ed Balls doesn’t mention devolved taxes to scotland

  32. Blair paterson
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry to go of topic so soon but I was disgusted last night to see on television all those liars had the brass neck to go into a church ,I wonder what god was thinking? How John Swinney managed to shake hands with them is beyond me ! I would not touch them with a barge pole they are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned ,I will never accept slavery no matter how it is dished up the ones who should feel ashamed are the slave owners and their helpers and we all no who they are.

  33. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Shameless Labour/Unionists

  34. Sandra
    Ignored
    says:

    When I saw those loudmouth thugs disrupting the Yes campaign’s peaceful demonstration in George Square I wondered if they could be National Front so this makes perfect sense. I hope Labour know what happens when you lie down with dogs.

  35. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    Ann Begg’s majority is only 3,500

  36. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    An English Parliament spending UK taxes. They want it all. To have their cake and eat yours.

    No taxation without representation.

  37. Chris buncall
    Ignored
    says:

    It doesn’t matter wether you hold the answers or not….politicians get in by making false promises..the main objective is to get past the post..democracy is a scam..but hey..that’s democracy..please stop being naive Scotland..I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. “He who controls the media controls the world”.

  38. Dcanmore
    Ignored
    says:

    Margo was right, we are on the side of angels.

    Labour, Tories, LibDems, National Front, SDL, BNP, Orange Order, Britannica, Britain First. They stand together to deny democracy through fear, lies, intimidation and violence. Ladies and gentlemen this is TeamGB.

  39. Hugh Wallace
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s me in the baseball cap looking on in utter disgust. I didn’t know who they were but three of us had a (polite) verbal go at them shortly after they photobombed us.

    Just for the record, Mr MacDonald strikes me as being as soft as sh*te when confronted with people who stand up to him.

  40. liz
    Ignored
    says:

    When I was on polling duty chatting to my opponent, a member of the Labour party, a couple of things stuck in my mind.

    She was a pleasant middle class/ middle aged woman.

    I asked her was she not worried about TTIP – what’s that she said?
    And, I was relieved by a fellow yesser, she was waiting to be relieved and I saw a tory councillor arriving, I said here’s your relief.

    She said oh no it wont be him but it was – she looked horrified – I said that’s cause you’re better together.

  41. Dcanmore
    Ignored
    says:

    … the fact that I forgot to put UKIP on the TeamGB list goes to show how much scum is floating around in the first place.

  42. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    Anne Begg was well aware who this guy was as she previously tried to have a National Front march banned in Aberdeen.

  43. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    A picture paints a thousand words.

    Strangely I’m not feeling in the mood to be reconciled with ‘British’ Labour.

  44. Archie [not Erchie]
    Ignored
    says:

    Meanwhile just doon the road outside M&S at the YES trailer which you can see in the 2nd photo [spot the WBB]. A week past Sunday I was manning one of the tables, just after the flashmob, it was exciting and an electric atmosphere. Suddenly the bonhomie disappeared as a Polish man with his small son came to ask us why he was going to be deported if he voted YES.

    Across the small square Lewis McDonald and UKOK activists were in the business of lying. Despite our reassurances to the Polish father that it was a lie, he departed in tears.
    The senior man and owner of the Yes trailer reported the incident to 3 Police Officers who had been observing at a distance – they swiftly moved in on the NO bunch.

    Christian Allard MSP who had appeared on the scene to campaign was visibly annoyed and everything became very tense. At that point he told the Yes campaigners to pack up to avoid a serious confrontation. A sad end to a wonderful day.

  45. Jock McDonnell
    Ignored
    says:

    What do we do now ?
    We consolidate. Do not chase no voters or pursue Devo-max. Do not aim for 2nd best.
    We leave labour to stew, they want to regain control. We leave them out. They will be pumped by the Tories next year, let labour rot.
    Those who voted no will understand soon enough that a mistake was made.

    For us on the ground, stay active, keep your Yes contacts going. Don’t let Devo-max distract us, aim for the best. Keep the ground campaign simmering & ready.

  46. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    There were 6 NF candidates that stood in Aberdeen council elections in 2012, including Dave MacDonald. Labour would have been well aware of who these people were and what they represented.

  47. Tîm Criced i Gymru
    Ignored
    says:

    Capella says:
    22 September, 2014 at 12:56 pm
    Ann Begg’s majority is only 3,500

    …No more Begging in Aberdeen South after May 2015 then..!

  48. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    “Spring time for UK and teamGB,” don’t be stupid be a smarty come and join the Labour Party. We’re marching at a faster pace, look out here comes the master race.

  49. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Just tried to explain this nightmare to a wonderful Pole Moved here to Aberdeen right the now, after not hiding it in time. All I could say was sorry.

  50. one less day
    Ignored
    says:

    You cannot pick your family but you most certainly can pick your friends

    O/T

    SNP has had to open an emergency phone line to help deal with applications

    How sweet is revenge and funny (labour crowing about 17 in a month)

  51. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    I presume the Press & Journal will be asking about the photos.

  52. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    “It was a set-up” doesn’t wash. If that Alicsammin is responsible for every bad word a vile cybernat uses, Anne Begg can take responsibility for her fellow travellers too.

  53. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Guys, just on John Swinney having to be the SNP rep. to let the wounded lick their wounds – he did marvellous – BUT – read the Edinburgh news comment from him VERY carefully. “We all had one vote, we all used that one vote….. ” I’m getting a bit twitchy, and trying not to read too much but……..

  54. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    She claims she didn’t know who he was. Riiight, so the habitual and proven liars of Labour/Better Together now merit the benefit of the doubt? Nah.

    Our goal over the next few months is simple – the destruction of ‘Scottish’ Labour.

  55. Northerndiver
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t they look happy together, better together even..

    I think we may see that photo again….perhaps in 2015, and possibly on the SNP G.E campaign material for the Aberdeen south constituency….

  56. mary vasey
    Ignored
    says:

    I remember when Donald Dewar came to the hospital I was working in to introduce Ann Begg. That’s when I found out what he was really like. Unlike Eck, he could not wait to get away, I’m sure he did not speak to a single patient. That’s when real disillusionment set in for me. So now the same with Begg, dishonesty rules the roost. I’m off to join SNP

  57. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    heedtracker says
    “Spring time for UK and teamGB,”

    What?
    like this you mean?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiryTUCtLNA

    btw check out the Nazi@ 42seconds.
    look like anyone we know?
    If that film wasnt so old I would have sworn that was John Barrowman! 🙂

  58. alexicon
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian B says:

    22 September, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    For fairness and not because I believe her, she had this to say in her twitter feed:
    “The picture was a set up. Horrible, nasty, odious people who will stoop to any level. Eugh!”

    I ain’t sure if she’s talking about her very own Labour party or the NF.

  59. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t have any Wee Blue Books left, but they are circulating around somewhere.

    If you have a WBB, give it to a friend who voted NO.

  60. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    Heard someone on the radio being interviewed who is a property agent(?) and who was/is a Yes voter. He came out with the following, very succinct and to the point:

    “The rich betrayed the poor. The old betrayed the young. And the powerful betrayed us all.”

  61. Craig P
    Ignored
    says:

    Labour’s support is heading south at a rate of knots.

    A word of warning though for those wanting to capitalise on this. Tory and Lib Dem voters will identify Labour as the best bet to oppose the SNP, and Labour’s vote will be artificially boosted in 2015 by unionists of all stripes seeking to deny the SNP seats.

  62. Dave Watt
    Ignored
    says:

    I live in Aberdeen South – Anne Begg’s constituency and to say that Anne Begg did not know MacDonald is ludicrous. The NF in Aberdeen (despite their tiny numbers) get more coverage in the local Evening Express and Press & Journal (check their back issues) than any other off – centre party anywhere and MacDonald is their main mouthpiece.

  63. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Heather Mason of Pinsent Masons(!) LLP talking up the 2016 10p tax powers on BBC New24 here…pathetic.

    The headline is Scotland Decides…second question “And what about England…”

  64. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry, Heather Self…not Mason

  65. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    I know that there was multiple voting as I saw with my own eyes some woman (with a Better Together Orkney Logo)from Galashiels boasting that she had 3 proxy votes as well as her own!
    Just wish I had done a screen grab of the Facebook page when I had the chance

  66. Cag-does-thinking
    Ignored
    says:

    It was nice of him to stoop to her level. Thoughtful even.

    @ heedtracker

    That was funny, I mean belly laugh funny.

  67. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    @ john king, Barrowman is complety terrifying. I thought using him in for the hideous Commonwealth games opener thing they did, was a pretty good kick in the nuts for Scotland too. Or put it this way, would a YES Scot have agreed to take the piss out of everything Scotland is world famous for, in front of much of that world. Mel Brooks satire works but the proud Scots but Barrowman attempt is just one giant creep out.

  68. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Apparently, the NF are highly embarrassed to have been associated with the Labour Party during the BT campaign.

    “Even we aren’t that bad!”, “We may be nasty, but we don’t stab our own people in the back!” a NF spokesperson was reported saying.

  69. thinkaboutit
    Ignored
    says:

    Many of the No voters who I spoke to afterwards wanted political reform but found ‘nationalism’ distasteful be it Scottish or British. I don’t see that nationalism is a bad thing, its a faith as anything else so people should be free to connect with whatever identity makes them feel most comfortable be that be nationality, religion or pop group. On the other hand the Yes campaign was persecuted by the Bitter crew on that very issue which was one of the many reasons people moved to Yes. This is a war on many fronts and handing the enemy ammunition may not be the wisest move unless its set to backfire.

  70. arthur thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    Somehow we need to address the violence of unionists. Scotttish people, including those whose roots are elsewhere, must be protected. How do we achieve this?

  71. Kaspar
    Ignored
    says:

    An inaugural meeting of the English Labour Party has now been held(I thought it was always this with a branch office in Scotland)
    It included Ben Bradshaw Labour MP “He made his comments as he attended the inaugural meeting of the English Labour Party, which included MPs, local authority chiefs, and church and civic leaders”

    http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Devon-Labour-MP-says-party-clear-fighting-England/story-22962488-detail/story.html

  72. kennym
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies for butting in o/t here but I just had to say that when in the depths of despair on the 18/19th I’d never have guessed that within 4 days we’d be back up again and getting ready to hurt them where it counts.

  73. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    Tick tock, UK. Tick tock.

  74. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    You too have a national front? I thought such a scourge was limited to us on the continent…

  75. Molly
    Ignored
    says:

    See Mgt Curran and J Lamont are going to target the Yes Labour voters or if you were cynical try and get them back into the fold for the GE.(Once they find out where they are again )

    Stand tall ex Labour voters , you are now going to be love bombed !!

  76. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, its good to watch the infighting – BTW Ed Balls has just told Conference they have to get in power next year to save the NHS from creeping privatisation – deja vue, anybody?
    I am circulating the Dame Begg story, just as I told Mr Joyce yesterday, I enjoyed reading his rap sheet, which will make excellent material for 2015. We have to stop this namby pamby attitude to “oh lets not get into that” THIS is exactly what this is all about – liars! Why do we expect and praise Salmond for being honest, but baulk at dishing the dirt on these politicians – its is part of the territory. I’ve told someone on the Wings FB page I don’t agree with his call to “rise above” Garbage needs taking out! We are bloody buried in it.

  77. Jamie boy
    Ignored
    says:

    Labour are the enemy. They are political prostitutes whose whole raison d’etre in
    Scotland is to return MP’s to Westminster. Cameron has out foxed them by raising the WL question which will kill them off. We should regard them in the same way as the miners saw Thatcher. They are the enemy within who were used by the establishment to get the natives to see sense and are already being hung out to dry. They need flushed out from their power base in local government where patronage is rampant and taken square on at the next election and buried

  78. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Kaspar
    fighting for england?
    WM more like, now they have their hands on scottish treasure, they don’t need scottish people any more!

  79. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Hopefully future Lord Alistair Darling well condemn these two blood and soil nationalists. Takes you back eh? So much for his silent majority.

  80. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    Does anyone know what LFI mean to do. Have they broken away from SLAB or what.

  81. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    She was forced to retract publicly her Hitler jibes at Alex Salmond.

  82. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    15,710 new members for SNP

  83. Kaspar
    Ignored
    says:

    @fred blogger

    Yes I particularly enjoyed the headline

    Devon Labour MP says party has to be clear “we are fighting for England”

    Perhaps the slogan bettertogether didn’t reach as far as Devon

  84. MickyD
    Ignored
    says:

    Re the bottom photo …is that Joan Ruddock former head of CND ?

  85. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    Westminster signals threat to Scotland’s budget

    Mon, 22/09/2014 – 13:01

    Commenting on the publication of a parliamentary motion at Westminster on further devolution to Scotland – which fails to repeat the guarantee to Scotland’s budget mentioned in the “vow” issued by the Westminster leaders prior to the referendum – Scotland’s Finance Secretary John Swinney said that ditching the pledge made on the Barnett Formula would be an “unforgiveable breach of faith” by the Westminster parties for which they would be held to account by the people of Scotland.

    Mr Swinney said:

    “Just days before the referendum the Prime Minister and the other Westminster leaders made what was described as a ‘vow’ to the people of Scotland on more powers – and that pledge included a commitment to maintain Scotland’s funding.

    “But that specific reference to the Barnett Formula is now missing from the parliamentary motion on more powers which has been published at Westminster.

    “That is a deeply telling omission which threatens to be deeply damaging to Scotland and our public finances.

    “Scrapping the Barnett Formula threatens to slash Scotland’s budget by around £4 billion a year – over and above the fresh £25 billion of austerity cuts the Tories already have planned.

    “Failure to hold to their pre-referendum ‘vow’ would be an unforgiveable breach of faith, for which the Westminster parties would be held to account by the people of Scotland.

    “David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg need to come clean – is Scotland’s budget protected or are they planning a cash grab which would see our funding slashed?”

    ENDS

    1. Parliamentary motion: “That this House welcomes the result of the Scottish independence referendum and the decision of the people of Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom; recognises that people across Scotland voted? for a Union based on the pooling and sharing of resources and for the? continuation of devolution inside the United Kingdom; notes the statement by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition regarding the guarantee of and timetable for further devolution to Scotland; calls on the Government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30th October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals; further calls on the Government to publish heads of agreement by the end of November and draft clauses for the new Scotland Bill by the end of January 2015.”

    2.Extract from the vow on Barnett:

    “And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.”

  86. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    As each day passes more and more alleged evidence comes to the surface that this referendum was rigged. Even going by the old say of there is no smoke without fire we have a bloody great inferno burning away here, in my opinion. 😛

    http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2014/09/uk-govt-covert-vote-fraud-denying-scotland-independence-is-a-quantum-worse-than-2000-us-supreme-court-fraud-in-bush-v-gor.html

  87. Stevie boy
    Ignored
    says:

    50 mins ago the SNP declared that 15710 new members had signed up (myself a mere one of them) since Thursday.. and growing!!

    If you haven’t already done so and would like to then just go to..

    snp.org

    Let’s do this!!! 🙂

  88. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Just came across this on one of the Facebook groups. Make of it what you will guys and gals. 😉

    Just came across this post there:
    “I was at the count for fife as a counting agent all the results I was monitoring was I would say about 6% lead for yes then there was a slight delay with boxes and then all of a suden the box that came through was practically all no’s!! I couldnt believe what I was seeing then the labour councillor who was standing next to me was aproached by someone and this councillor showed him the result of the box I just spoke of and this person told him of a result they had got and the councillor replied ‘I thought we would have got gubbed there’ and this person replied to him ‘We did’ and walked away I thought to myself you cheating bastards and the rest is history I walked out of the count in disgust at 5.30am and I must say the walk back to my car was the longest lonliest walk I have ever made! If anyone needs to know I know where the box came from and I can recognise the councillor!”

  89. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley-Anne, this paragraph says it all..

    The darkest wrong in Scottish history”

    My legal analysis is that “the darkest wrong in its history has just been done to the Scottish people.” Because Scotland’s collective free will to become an independent nation by a fair, free vote has been thwarted by systemic fraud ordered by what can only be the highest levels of the political, financial, intelligence, and Monarchical plausible-deniability hierarchy in England, the basic social contract between Scotland and England was broken. At the very least, Scotland is entitled by law to a Recount, or to a Revote (because of the likelihood that existing ballots have been destroyed).

  90. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    Labour courting the support of fascist organisations is not a new phenomena. Flies have been attracted to shit since the beginning of time.

    @ Jim Murphy
    You have some lovely friends, as a member of Labour Friends of Israel.

    As the Guardian reported in April 2008, Board of Deputies spokesperson Ruth Smeed let readers know that “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web — it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel.”

    But Kaminski and Roberts Zile, of the Waffen-SS supporting Latvian Freedom and Fatherland Party, are not the exceptions. Dutch far-right anti-Islam politician and Member of Parliament Geert Wilders is another figure who combines virulent racism with Zionism. As reported in the Israeli daily Haaretz on 18 June, Wilders claimed that “Israel is only the first line of defense for the West. Now it’s Israel but we are next. That’s why beyond solidarity, it is in Europe’s interest to stand by Israel.”

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-anti-semitic-friends/8516

    @ Jim Murphy
    Why do you support Zionism? Are you comfortable with the continual human rights abuses and apartheid practiced by the Israel state? Where were you in relation to South African apartheid?

    The Green Party endorsement of the Stop the JNF Campaigns comes after similar motions were passed last year by the Scottish Green Party and Scottish Friends of the Earth, all repudiating the JNF’s claim to be an “environmental charity”. The JNF is known for establishing forests and parks over the remains of destroyed Palestinian villages. Last year the JNF lost high level political protection when David Cameron resigned as Honorary Patron, the first time in its 111 year history the serving British Prime Minister does not hold this position. Equally unprecedentedly, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg declined the JNF’s request to become Patrons when they became leaders of their parties.

    http://jews4big.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/green-party-targets-racist-jewish-national-fund/

    http://www.stopthejnf.org/

  91. Elizabeth Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    Molly @2.15:
    Aye Labour Yes voters, Love bombing, hugging while picking your pockets, and stealing the bairns tea of the table, that man and dad had to collect from the food bank in George Sq. in Glasgow.

  92. Scot Finlayson
    Ignored
    says:

    On a similar note I heard that Sharleen Spiteri the Texas lead singer was allied to the Unionist cause.

  93. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Lesley-Anne says:

    22 September, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    As each day passes more and more alleged evidence comes to the surface that this referendum was rigged. Even going by the old say of there is no smoke without fire we have a bloody great inferno burning away here, in my opinion. 😛

    http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2014/09/uk-govt-covert-vote-fraud-denying-scotland-independence-is-a-quantum-worse-than-2000-us-supreme-court-fraud-in-bush-v-gor.html

    The footage could be faked, remember. If these incidents can be confirmed, for example by identification of staff involved at the counts/stations, or recognition of the station, or whistle-blowers, then it could be something. Otherwise, it has tobe taken with a pinch of salt.

    There probably was some dirty trickery involved, but the reality is that the majority of the older generation did not want to risk their semi-comfortable lives for something potentially much better.

  94. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes needs to be clever. By focussing on vote rigging (be there vote rigging or not), that will allow the claims of conspiracy-theorists (and hence looneys) to be launched ad nauseum.

    To suggest definitive vote rigging is to suggest a very clever, very large, and very secret campaign of vote rigging, which is impossible, if only for the reason that the people organising and conducting the conspiracy aren’t clever enough. The bigger the conspiracy theory (and this is big), the less likely the reality of the conspiracy.

    Please, let’s not go down this route. The only people it will convince are the people who want to believe it (and who will be Yes voters already). The likely effect on those who didn’t vote, or were slightly veering towards Yes but did vote No, and with a heavy heart, will be to make them think that Yes is a big mental. It will be deterimental to the cause.

    There is enough evidence of corruption from the establishment. We don’t need this. And they didn’t need it (to win), either.

  95. Alex Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    @Nana Smith

    Many LFI members have already cut up the Labour party membership cards. I wasn’t a member of the Labour party but did join LFI early on, I’ve now joined the SSP.

    LFI will make their decision known soon enough. Meanwhile no matter your political beliefs and allegiances the quicker you join the party of your choice the better. Doesn’t matter if you can’t devote much time. A small contribution and your support will go a long way. Get to it folks and take advantage of their disarray.

  96. Jim D
    Ignored
    says:

    Hey, Scottish Labour No voters here’s a love-bombing thank-you message from some of your Better Together fellow Brits :http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/economics/2014/09/scotland-votes-demand-change-barnett-formula.html
    Some lovely comments posted too.

  97. goulashman
    Ignored
    says:

    Today’s news on all fronts shows how we are being screwed by the Tories and ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Labour and ConDems. Stifle the Scottish voice, screw Scotland fiscally in the name of ‘devolution’ and impose every condition possible on ‘devolution’ powers …… but, above all, so elongate the process, keep at the cynical whim of Tory leadership and its internal party ‘consultations’ that nothing happens while plans are drawn up to crush Independence aspirations for good. NO voting turkeys, hope you enjoy you Christmas with Santa Cameron and his elven helpers, Brown, Miliband, Darling, Clegg. So angry, so ‘told you so’.

  98. James Caithness
    Ignored
    says:

    I spoke to the Airdrie Savings Bank today with a view to moving my money to it. I was told that I need to see a branch manager to open an account. I was then told I would need to make an appointment as they were experiencing a great deal of new accounts wanting to be opened.

    I asked is that from the likes of Clydesdale?

    Both Clydesdale and RBS.

    YES we are fighting back.

  99. ClanDonald
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Nana Smith,

    Here’s a photie of Danny Alexander with that slimeball, Coburn. I don’t know how to post images on here so I’ve posted it on twitter and added the link, hope it works.

    https://twitter.com/Donald_Clan/status/514049698706247680/photo/1

  100. Graeme Doig
    Ignored
    says:

    Nana and LA

    I know a lot of folk on here disagree but i believe that any evidence, however seemingly spurious, needs to be investigated at the highest level. (Is evidence being collated?)

    I agree that crying ‘fowl’ does not sit well but if there is any real evidence it cannot be ignored.

    We all new the establishment would do anything to stop independence.

    I have signed all relevant petitions and would encourage others to do the same.

  101. goulashman
    Ignored
    says:

    The ugliest of elements, attitude and ideology informed NO – aggressive far right paranoias and enthusiasms.

  102. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Alex Clark

    Hi Alex! Intend to join SNP tomorrow when the website calms down. It’s great to see so many acting positively.

  103. Kid Spotlight
    Ignored
    says:

    Nice pic, err… Meanwhile there are 3 burning current issues:

    1) Pushing for a full INDEPENDENT investigation of vote rigging by the EU or UN.

    2) Keeping a beady eye on the progress & timetable of DEVO-Broon.

    3) Pressing really hard to get SNP to change its name from one that contributed at least 10% to losing the referendum – and which alienates many potential members which are at present being poached by SLP. It is politically a Social Democratic Party – so why not simply be called that and open an easier way for the YES alliance to work?

    Independence is not just about the SNP.

  104. Stevie boy
    Ignored
    says:

    Graeme Doig

    Yeah I agree with you.

    No-one wants to cry fowl play if nothing happened but I believe there is overwhelming evidence building up to support this.

    What’s the point of rejecting all this and walking away to ‘hope’ that we get another chance and then also ‘hope’ that WM don’t cheat us again!

    I’d rather take my chancesof fighting for a revote just now and see what happens. I still believe we may have won fair and square in the first place.

  105. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    I see there are nearly 100,000 signatories calling for a recount of the referendum vote.

  106. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t know if folks saw this in the Scotland on Sunday yesterday. Typical incompetent journalism included for free. According to the Bozzo who wrote the piece Jim Sillars is STILL a member of the SNP! 😛

    https://archive.today/i2F7l

  107. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @ClanDonald

    Well done for finding it, I’ve looked again for the Kennedy/Coburn pic but no luck.

  108. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Nana Smith

    I think they are holding a conference in Glasgow to decide what to do next.

  109. Cal
    Ignored
    says:

    For anyone wishing to join a pro independence party here are the links (in no particular order):

    http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/
    http://www.snp.org/
    http://www.scottishsocialistparty.org/

    I am a new snp member and I will walk the streets once more to rid this country of the scourge that is the Scottish (sic.) Labour Party.

  110. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Chris Baxter

    Agreed. I hope it is just disappointment. No pro-independence party has said anything about the ballot being rigged. The result has been accepted by the vast majority.

  111. creag an tuirc
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s a way to put the vote rigging to bed. A crowdfunded forensic survey of Clackmannanshire. It only has an electorate of 39,972 and was expected to be a shoe in for yes. Compare the survey with the results

  112. Kevin evans
    Ignored
    says:

    Stu – could you give us your own view on the rigging conspiracy?

  113. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley Anne

    Jim Sillars is a member of the SNP as far as I am aware.

  114. David
    Ignored
    says:

    Speaking about people in England calling for the scrapping of the Barnet Formula and generally trying to make life difficult.

    I say – bring it on.

    I really hope they screw that screw down tight and hammer us with everything they have.

    That way, the tide of indignation that arises from it will be swift and unstoppable.

    Every negative thing they do – from the merest jibe to whole policies negative to scots pushes people towards the independence for Scotland side.

    All we have to do is be armed with facts, keep the heid and be prepared to debate with anyone who wants to.

    Bring it on fckrs.

  115. fionan
    Ignored
    says:

    so many claims of vote rigging, and my gut feeling is that it did happen, especially in dundee… but I cannot fathom why, if all these incidents being reported now are true and honest accounts, why didn’t the people witnessing them ay something at the time/do something at the time? When the problems if they existed, could have been investigated and dealt with. Why come forward days later when it is too late to do anything about it? And that makes me doubt the validity and veracity of these stories.

  116. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    16,000 new members for the SNP?! Add one more — have not been able to get onto the site, it has been working too slowly, but I am certainly joining up.

    Would also be good if our allies in the SSP could somehow position themselves as the “real” Labour party. But they also suffer so much from no media presence. Likewise, the Greens have been polling in England better than the Lib Dems, and all you see is Clegg everywhere!!

  117. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Kid Spotlight

    3) Pressing really hard to get SNP to change its name from one that contributed at least 10% to losing the referendum – and which alienates many potential members which are at present being poached by SLP. It is politically a Social Democratic Party – so why not simply be called that and open an easier way for the YES alliance to work?

    Can you give evidence for your assertion that the SNP’s name contributed to at least 10 per cent of losing the referendum, please?

  118. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    O.K. folks time for a wee bit of a laugh and a cheer, I think. 😉

    First up. Here is an article about everyone’s favourite egg collector. 😛

    https://archive.today/e5sJD

    Secondly, this is a wee song that some of you might just recognise! 😀

    http://tinyurl.com/lay7nbh

  119. Tamson
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m with Chris. Drop the vote-rigging conspiracy theory stuff. Unless strong evidence of large-scale fraud starts coming to light, it’s pointless. You have over 400,000 votes to account for…

  120. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    George Galloway ?@georgegalloway · 2h
    Sorry Ed that was just balls…

    and he spent last 100 days talking labour up

    laugh or cry

  121. David
    Ignored
    says:

    Nana Smith says:
    22 September, 2014 at 2:41 pm
    @Lesley-Anne, this paragraph says it all..

    The darkest wrong in Scottish history”

    My legal analysis is that “the darkest wrong in its history has just been done to the Scottish people.” Because Scotland’s collective free will to become an independent nation by a fair, free vote has been thwarted by systemic fraud ordered by what can only be the highest levels of the political, financial, intelligence, and Monarchical plausible-deniability hierarchy in England, the basic social contract between Scotland and England was broken. At the very least, Scotland is entitled by law to a Recount, or to a Revote (because of the likelihood that existing ballots have been destroyed).

    Well, the darker it is the more clearly you see the light

  122. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    @David

    Speaking about people in England calling for the scrapping of the Barnet Formula and generally trying to make life difficult.

    I say – bring it on.

    I really hope they screw that screw down tight and hammer us with everything they have.

    That way, the tide of indignation that arises from it will be swift and unstoppable.

    Quite. If they don’t scrap (or greatly alter) Barnett, so that the grant is cut by billions, and if they do provide some additional powers to the Scottish Parliament, then that is a serious brake on independence.

    But that’s not going to happen. The Scottish and English dogs have been kicked awake. The Scots have been woken by the cheats of the UK Establishment. The English have been woken by the cheats of the Establishment.

    Think about it if you’re English and followed the referendum even a little bit. All you’re hearing is “We subsidise Scotland”, and seeing all this pathetic raising of saltires over town halls, how “special” the lovebombing (pathetic though it was) Scotland was made to feel. The panic of Scotland possibly leaving.

    So what do the people of Essex (already strongly anti-EU) think? Or the people of Sussex, Cornwall, Lancashire…

    “What about us!”

    Not only did the chasm get widened massively in Scotland, but it has been well and truly busted in England itself.

    The Union is now under assault not just from the north, but from the south as well.

    Tick tock.

  123. big jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Lesley I am going to the demo Ediburgh Sunday to hand the petition in demamnding a revote. 1pm. Not sure who has the petition will find out when we gather.

  124. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    1. Parliamentary motion:

    “That this House welcomes the result of the Scottish independence referendum and the decision of the people of Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom; recognises that people across Scotland voted? for a Union based on the pooling and sharing of resources and for the? continuation of devolution inside the United Kingdom; notes the statement by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition regarding the guarantee of and timetable for further devolution to Scotland; calls on the Government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30th October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals; further calls on the Government to publish heads of agreement by the end of November and draft clauses for the new Scotland Bill by the end of January 2015.”

    2.Extract from the vow on Barnett:

    “And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.”

  125. Footsoldier
    Ignored
    says:

    There is no chance of a re-vote. Move on.

  126. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    re-vote is a bogey,wasting time energy

    but a VOW march outside daily record will bring 1000,s

    Barnett formula NOT in parliamentary motion

  127. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Oops!

    I forgot this one!

    Stairheid Rammy claims that the Labour party is to reach out to Labour voters who voted YES.

    Shadow Scottish secretary Margaret Curran said senior party figures would meet Labour voters who backed independence in last week’s referendum.

    Hell they can reach out all they like but they no be able to touch anyone cause they’ll be told where to put their reaching, not a pretty sight by the way. 😛

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29303968

  128. Seasick Dave
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s not much point coming on here with anecdotal evidence of voting fraud.

    Get in touch with the Electoral Commission with as many details as possible.

    Alex Webb
    Public Information Support
    The Electoral Commission
    Tel: 029 2034 6811
    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk

  129. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    remember when that tory MP asked for a revote—he got WIPED OUT

    those asking for revote are INSANE

  130. Giving Goose
    Ignored
    says:

    Campaigning with other parties and interests is a matter of expediency for the Labour Party.
    It simply has to be understood that the Labour Party was hijacked and taken over by individuals who are not, at heart, politicians. These people are simply careerists who do not possess any vision or ideas.
    It is simply power for personal advancement and personal wealth.
    The Labour Party operates like an old time Mafia organised crime gang and they are very organised when it comes to protecting their own interests.
    The Union is merely a vehicle for their narrow self interests and the only thing that Labour politicians have in common is that as individuals they agree that their respective careers come first.
    I’m absolutely convinced that Ann Begg is as devoid of compassion and decency as every other Labour MP, campaigning with an undesirable element is acceptable as it is to the benefit of Labour self interests.
    They were willing to campaign with the Tory party, appear as guest speakers at Tory conferences and be bankrolled by Tory donors. What more proof is required?

  131. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @bookie

    I’m inclined to agree. All evidence anecdotal or otherwise won’t bring last Thursday back. We should focus on moving forward and holding HMG and particularly the Labour party to account for their pledges and ‘vows’. Westminster can’t help being Westminster and they will fudge or outright break those pledges. We need to be ready when they do.

  132. farrochie
    Ignored
    says:

    Folks,
    Let’s remind ourselves of the magnitude of the task for the 2015 general election.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/region/7.stm

  133. pussy nancy
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone heard how the Labour YES meeting went? If there is no comment on the News, then can we surmise that all is not well?

  134. brocken spectre
    Ignored
    says:

    “It was a set-up” sounds like the offline version of “my account was hacked”
    I asked someone near me – a local Scout leader – if he was aware he had BNP stickers on his car along with his No Thanks/BT ones…his response? “So?”

  135. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    SeasickDave

    Get in touch with the Electoral Commission with as many details as possible.

    Alex Webb
    Public Information Support
    The Electoral Commission
    Tel: 029 2034 6811
    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk

    What the Electoral Commission should be looking at is the breaking of its purdah rules, by the No campaign shifting the goal posts with a few days left.

    The Vow – genuine or not – still broke those rules. Had the No campaign stuck to the rules and not made the Vow, then hundreds of thousands (according to the break down of why No supporters voted) would not have voted No. That is a scandal and must be challenged.

  136. Joe Swan
    Ignored
    says:

    Anecdotal I know, but .. During the day of the Referendum I was travelling around a large working class area with a younger Yes worker, to see which polling stations had representatives outside the Polling Stations.

    There weren’t any representatives from either side at many of the Polling Stations and we decided to set up outside a particularly busy one. We were only there about 5 minutes and I decided to go and stand at another station.

    As I was leaving I noticed a local Labour councillor pass by in her ‘No Thanks’ vehicle and wondered if she would send up one of her No workers to stand alongside us.

    Within 10 minutes I received a telephone call from my co-worker to say a man, who is a well known activist in the Orange Order, approached him threateningly, saying “Somebody told me that there were Yes men spreading lies about the OO here. Was that you?” Eh was it?”. He eventually left but my friend took a picture of his car registration.

    Up until that point we had hardly spoken to anyone and had just said “Good morning” to a couple of voters.

    Later that night we saw the said OO activist jumping about at a BT party celebrating with Labour Party representatives. We rewound the TV and took a picture of him and spread it on Facebook.

    We now know who he is and we know who the esteemed councillor is and will be putting forward a candidate to stand against her at the next council elections. Her party is in coalition with Tories here to keep the SNP out.

    The good news is my friend who stayed outside the Polling Station for several hours doing his own Exit Poll said it was “Rock solid Yes” with voters from all religions putting their faith in our movement.

  137. TJenny
    Ignored
    says:

    L-A, loved that version of FOS, will that be sung at the next SvE game? That’s quite soon I think is it not?

    Will the Scotland YES supporters that attend and maybe the Scotland team be wearing black armbands do you think?

  138. goulashman
    Ignored
    says:

    Unfortunately, even with evidence of vote rigging, the result would probably have still been a NO victory. My generation together with the well heeled ‘me’ ‘I’m OK self-centred’ are ‘wot won it’. But it may soon transpire that many of these will realise they have been duped……certainly among the older generation. The affluent self-centred are the natural Tory power base …. and nothing short of a lobotomy could change its ‘mind’. But I think it best now to take advantage of the amazing political positive and hope that he Yes Campaign has given us – as evidenced in the amazing will to be involved that is seeing the huge commitment to the Independence Parties. No matter how justified, and I believe it IS justified, this energy could be distracted by too prolonged obsession with trying to get a revote. Alex has said some really interesting things on how Independence could STIILL be achieved. The first salvo has been fired and is hitting home. Let’s keep up the battle…without playing into Tory/BBC/MSM hands.

  139. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    reconciliation with liars is pointless.
    reconciliation with the duped is joyful.

  140. Seasick Dave
    Ignored
    says:

    Chris Baxter

    Yep, the breaking of the purdah was one of the biggest issues as far as I am concerned.

    That and Ruth Davidson boasting of having had a preview of the postal votes.

    I am also very concerned about the Glasgow and Dundee turnouts but have nothing concrete for that.

  141. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye you’re right David. The darker it becomes the LIGHTER it actually becomes for those who fought for the side of a more caring, fairer and equal society. That side was none other than the legions of YES supporters all across Scotland. This fight is not over, not by a long chalk.

    Westminster think that Friday’s result has killed us all off. Far from it, in fact Friday’s result has only achieved ONE thing and that is to ensure our willingness to fight for what is right has only been strengthened!

    Good for you BJ.

    I know there are some who say we should just move on, unfortunately there is, in my view, far too many unanswered questions surrounding the count. Whilst the right to a recount was removed from us BEFORE the referendum began it still does not stop us from calling for one. I think with all the mounting allegations of voting fraud appearing every day, something will have to be done. Whilst the re count will not be amongst the options other options are still available to us. One thing that the calling for a recount does do is that it focuses, in my view, the mindset of Westminster. What I mean is that they see us constantly calling for a recount whilst knowing it can never happen but what they are NOT seeing are the alternatives that we are pursuing.

  142. FairiefromEarth
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev just wondering about the pensions if i was a pensioner and had paid my national insurance contrabutions surely westminster was on the hook for all pensions before Independance day? and after for all who paid into the pension pot?

  143. Nigerian Pirate
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi folks,

    Sorry to go back to the possibility of vote rigging, but in regards to the postal votes, is there any way to check how individual votes were cast? I had a postal vote due to being abroad on the 18th. I want to know that my vote was declared/counted for Yes.

    Its kind of hard to put thoughts into words that make any sense, but each postal vote definitely had a 9 character individual ref number – 3 letters and 6 digits. Is it possible to check with individual counting stations as to what that reference number was declared for, either yes or no.

    I took photos of my postal vote and the postal voting statement side by side so have my own proof – call me suspicious, but in the back of my mind I had a feeling that the postal votes were best chance to do any rigging – if there was actually any rigging to be done.

    Sorry if it sounds crazy and I’m not sure what the official counting process entails, but if there was a way to check for sure then it would put my mind at ease.

  144. jackie g
    Ignored
    says:

    Guys,

    anti dote to all the violence fromr recent days in george square:

    BBC news
    Thousands of food bags donated to pop-up foodbank in Glasgow.

  145. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    What’s laughingly called Scottish Labour aren’t registered in Scotland are they?

    Just wondering like, but what if LFI or SSP and other like minded true socialists got together got together and registered as ‘Scottish Labour Party’? Put clear water between Scottish Labour and British Labour as it were.

    Just a thought.

  146. big jock
    Ignored
    says:

    The result is not formalised until 6 weeks after the count. It’s in the statute law. This allows time for the public to petition for a recount. But we need a revote. Either way there is a lot of evidence.

  147. Elizabeth
    Ignored
    says:

    Saw this tweet from the. Labour Party Conference

    “15:32: Miliband’s ‘Oscars’ speech On the stage at the Labour conference in Manchester, party leader Ed Miliband says it is becoming “like the Oscars” as he thanks figures within the party who helped with the ‘No’ campaign.”

    It”ll no be an oscar he gets in 2015 it will be a Razzy

  148. Seasick Dave
    Ignored
    says:

    Nigerian Pirate

    Ask the EC.

    Alex Webb
    Public Information Support
    The Electoral Commission
    Tel: 029 2034 6811
    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk

  149. STARLAW
    Ignored
    says:

    Yup time to move on. Lets go for the labour party at every level, particularly the labour held councils, who have far to much control over to many matters. for example who said yes members were no longer members of the public, and not allowed the use of public amenities. smacks of Maggie Thatchers ideas

  150. msean
    Ignored
    says:

    Tell me again,who are the who called who nazis during the indyref to scare old old age pensioners?

  151. goulashman
    Ignored
    says:

    Mliband’s oily, ugly, misplaced smugness in congratulating the architects of the NO victory. Labour entirely compromised and prostituted. Vile.

  152. pussy nancy
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry folks! I don’t know how I thought that the Labour YES meeting was today. Just realised it can’t be with Fran & Anna being down at the Labour Party Conference!

  153. Nigerian Pirate
    Ignored
    says:

    Seasick Dave @ 3:51

    Yeah cheers for that. I had posted way before the EC address had come up earlier, but my posts are taking about 20 mins to appear on the site.

    I’ll email the address and see what they say. It might be futile on my part but it would put my mind at ease if they can confirm.

  154. Snurbs
    Ignored
    says:

    Have you seen how George Square was reported in the Times

    It’s a disgrace, there must be someway to challenge this nonsense

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4211236.ece

  155. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    OT re. previous topic. Disgusted but not surprised about the abusegiven to Rev. Stu. I tend to think that the more hateful and abusive the comment, it is directly linked to the size of their brain and no.of brain cells they have.

    Fascism seems to be alive and well in our green and pleasant land. I hope that begg understands that being disabled or mentally ill was tantamount to a criminal offence in nazi germany

  156. Brian Penn
    Ignored
    says:

    Did I just hear JL wanting to ‘change the world’ what a deluded eejit, we just can’t allow her to represent Scotland at any level.

  157. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Nigerian Pirate
    The sytem in Fife had mechanical matching of Postal Voting Statements and ballot papers. There was a notice on the instructions that you could use your identity number from the PVS to log in and check that your PVS had been allowed and that your ballot had been counted into a postal ballot box.

    The postal ballots in Fife were counted and bundled when agreed with the mechanical tally and placed in the postal ballot boxes at the end of the day and then sealed which is why postal ballot boxes when emptied at the count had all their votes neatly packaged and counted.

  158. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    It certainly is a *ahem* fun version T Jenny. I have to admit getting some of the words right may be a wee problem though. 😛

    With regards to all the anecdotal evidence that is floating around, so long as it just stays anecdotal then yes nothing much can be done which is why the petition for a judicial review is so important, in my view. It will be here that all the, up till now, anecdotal evidence will have to be produced as fact, either by written legal statement or video evidence.

    Should the review go in OUR favour, which I naively believe it could, then I understand that we would then have the necessary legal grounds for the First Minister, who ever it is 😉 , to recall the Three Estates. By recalling the Three Estates then we could yet see Scotland declared an independent country and there is NOTHING Cameron, Milliband, Clegg or any of the other useless Muppets do. 😛

  159. Andy
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley Anne et al: In my office no-one within my dept of 30 odd people voted Yes. Get over it. Multiple posters on here who were at the counts have said they did not see any evidence of rigging. Next time there is a referendum I would recommend spending a bit of time on websites that don’t just reinforce your own views, then you will be less likely to suffer cognitive dissonance if the result doesn’t go your way.

  160. annie
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian Penn – You can’t say that Labour don’t think big, JL changing the world, GB saving the world, pity they don’t start in their own back yard.

  161. Devereux
    Ignored
    says:

    @Kid Spotlight @muttley79 As I said in an earlier post, I completely agree re SNP name change. I have been an SNP supporter all my life and am proud of its development into a mature, modern and capable political party that has done a great job in government. But we have to think with our heads, like our enemies. Morally, why the hell should we lose that iconic name. Tactically? A lot of voters don’t do the niceties of National v Nationalist and it gives the newspapers and BBC a field day. With all the new members joining from all walks of political perspectives on board, it would be a great excuse to change the name (it would not even be the first time anyway). Why not Scottish Democratic Party? Let the press then try and attack the ‘nasty Democrats’ rather than Nationalists. I know a lot of people who would never countenance support for a party called the SNP but in time would soon forget and support a Democratic party. It would help draw the 45 and some from the 55 into a campaign for more devolution and when, as we expect, this ultimately fails, we will get our chance again and be ready for it with a broader church of support.

  162. Andy
    Ignored
    says:

    If you think about it logically, nearly half of the people at each of the counts would have been Yes voters. Or were they all paid to look the other way?

  163. Kevin Meina
    Ignored
    says:

    Labour Party conference NHS is being privatised.That was a quick turnaround 4 days ago it wasn’t the Tories must have been busy at weekend.I have just joined SNP

  164. annie
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t know why Miliband is against Scottish MPs not voting on English only matters, can’t see there being enough Scottish Labour MPs in 2015 for it to cause him any problems.

  165. Nigerian Pirate
    Ignored
    says:

    handclapping @ 4:10

    Thank you for the info. I dont have access to any instructions that came along with the PVS but will email the EC anyway.

    I’m not sure what system the Western Isles had but due to the smaller numbers involved I doubt they had anything like what Fife had.

    Cheers for the help folks.

  166. Tamson
    Ignored
    says:

    Annie, are you aware of the mountain we need to climb to dislodge the Feckless 41? There are only 7 with majorities under 10,000!

  167. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry this has nothing to do with the referendum but thought it interesting all the same. 😉

    http://www.robedwards.com/2014/09/staff-shortages-on-nuclear-submarines-put-public-at-risk.html

  168. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    labour party plans to raise tax band up to 50p in £, to improve health services (the national bit i left out coz NHS is de-existed) so that share holders can make more in profits.

  169. annie
    Ignored
    says:

    Tamson – Yes but remember all of the new people who registered to vote, they didn’t do that for more of the same, so between them and all the disaffected Labour voters I don’t think it’s impossible.

  170. M4rkyboy
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘I have never been so grateful for the Tories. They got their supporters out in middle-class areas and saved the Union, while our people were switching to Yes.
    ‘For the first time ever, I was so happy the turnouts in the schemes were lower than elsewhere.’

  171. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    As many have stated already, there is no point in conjecture as regards voting fraud
    Unless anyone has hard proof, that is something that’s in writing or video of fraud planned or taking place. Then you cannot do anything further.

    Sooner or later some one will have a loose tongue and start to boast of what has happened, but until then, can only suggest trying to collect hard evidence.

    Make no mistake if anything can be proved, it would lead to he biggest and I mean biggest scandal of all time

    Until then keeping digging away, don’t under any circumstance let anyone know what’s going on

    Its a great pity we really don’t have the likes of Pilger in our media. We really don’t have any journalists worth a penny that would look into this

  172. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    sorry better post the link to my above post as it has the pledge(spit) word in the title.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/21/ed-balls-ed-miliband-labour-pledge-next-parliament

  173. Wull
    Ignored
    says:

    Is it possible to dig out more ‘terrible twin’ pictures like this one, and publish them with titles like: Better Together: Labour and the National Front in perfect harmony, then an explanation of who the ‘happy couple’ are in the picture?
    Then, Better Together: Labour and the Tories in perfect harmony, with similar explanations. There must be plenty of these …
    Better Together: Labour and the OO in harmony ….. etc etc.
    To be fair, it is not just Labour that should be targetted. The Tories and the Lib Dems deserve it too

  174. DoziR
    Ignored
    says:

    Chris
    What I get from what you say is that “truth” doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is increasing the snp vote.

    Makes folk think that that was the intentions all along – increase snp support and ruin labour. How much money have SNP made with all these new members. What about the people that don’t have the money to join. Are you going to waive your fees to include the people you are suppose to represent.

    I’m all for ruining labour and the tories but if what you do now doesn’t at least begin with “truth” then you are all as bad as them, for all I know you are them.

    There is no big mad conspiracy theory, it’s called fraud and lies. I thought you guys on here cared about your country and it’s people. Where are the good guys or is it true that there aren’t any.

    I would love to join the SNP give me a reason to do it.

    I’m disappointed yet again.

  175. CameronB Brodie
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Jim Murphy
    As a member of Labour Friends of Israel, you appear to support Zionism and Israeli nationalism. Why not Support Scottish nationalism? What exactly does “Better Together” mean to an imperialist like yourself?

    P.S. I’m not a nationalist, simply highlighting a major hypocrisy at the heart of ‘socialist’ Labour. Imperialism and Zionism can’t be separated.

  176. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    Forget about any notions of a re-vote due to some possible voting fraud – it’s not going to happen.

    There would have had to have been some kind of major conspiracy to ‘add’ half-a-million votes to the No pile… which didn’t happen.

    And what about the situation where there actually is a re-vote, and the result gives an even higher percentage to No… which could well happen?

    Forget it and move on.

  177. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    DoziR

    You don’t have to join the SNP, there are the Greens and SSP who also support the Yes movement and possibly others (Solidarity?). This is about putting pressure on the traditional parties who are against independence not favouring one party. Nicola Sturgeon congratulated those joining the Greens as well as those joining the SNP.

    On the SNP as far as I can see you can select your membership fee and they have a minimum rate of £1 a month.

  178. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    SNP membership now almost equal to national figure for Lib Dem party 40k plus

  179. Chris Baxter
    Ignored
    says:

    DoziR

    What I get from what you say is that “truth” doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is increasing the snp vote.

    I’m not sure if you’re referring to me.

    Let me make clear what I meant.

    1) I don’t believe that there was mass vote rigging.

    2) Whatever evidence has been presented must be proven – in terms of scale also – before it’s publicised, otherwise we all sound bad.

    Were there possibly some vote counters rigging votes? Possibly.

    It is very hard to prove intent. But any claims of illegal behaviour must be done so responsibly, and not screamed about loudly because it will achieve bad press, like it or not. There is zero chance that any vote rigging was on a scale large enough to affect 400,000 votes.

  180. Harry McAye
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely any alleged fraud would have taken place en route from polling station to counting centre. Who was checking during these journeys?

  181. Jamie Arriere
    Ignored
    says:

    Whether there was vote-rigging or not is not the point, and it’s doubtful whether it was on such a scale to affect the result.

    The point is we were not organised enough to have observers watching ballot boxes from start to finish on polling day & escort them to the count, and were not able to remove the doubt. If there is another poll in 15-20 years, we should aim to build an organisation able to do this, and be prepared next time

  182. Croompenstein
    Ignored
    says:

    @DoziR –

    I would love to join the SNP give me a reason to do it

    Hope

  183. Marco McGinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding the main topic issue, there is no way that the photo of Ann Begg is a set-up. She looks very content in that photo, with a large smile on her face. As others have pointed out, she will know this person, and in that respect she should have distanced herself. She didn’t. Just like the rest of the No campaign that made an alliance with the Orange Order, the BNP, and other far-right extremists. She is trying to get out of it, and she will fail.

    As for the vote-rigging, can we please put an end to it. There may have been a couple of irregularities, and there may well have been a few votes that came our way as a result of tired eyes or weariness. There was no widespread rigging, so we have to put an end to this conspiracy pish once and for all, and put all of our energy into the next phase. The GE is a few short months away, and we have to put everything into this, and the destruction of Scottish Labour.

  184. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    Macart says:
    22 September, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    What’s laughingly called Scottish Labour aren’t registered in Scotland are they?

    They are not registered as such. In fact there is no such entity. It is simply registered as The Labour Party registered in London, memory recalls.

  185. stewart bc
    Ignored
    says:

    You have to be very careful about a name change.

    Scottish Democratic Party. SDP? Not again ….

    Democracy For Scotland. DFS? Sofa so good

  186. caledonia
    Ignored
    says:

    hello just a quick question my brothers neighbour wants to join the SNP
    1 – cant get onto the site (told him it was busy)
    2 – can he join without having to pay (out of work just now)

    cant answer the second question

  187. a supporter
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev:
    I don’t know if you have made your decision to pull back from Scottish commentary. But the fact that Sweetcheeks Hothersall is crawling all over the internet trying to diss you and Wings might help you in your decision. Clearly SLAB is very afraid that you might continue attacking their lies and those of their disgusting friends in the Scottish media and so prevent many of the SLAB MPs from being re-elected.

    I can think of no better cause to support than that of “the 45” in its aim to remove those cancers from the body politic in Scotland. And no better commentator than you to help us to do it.

  188. EdinScot
    Ignored
    says:

    Labour being pictured here together with a NF member coupled with events in George Square last Friday night with the vile bnp along with the airbrushing of the truth from the corrupt ebc have made my blood run cold for those last dark dark days.

    To be honest, I disappeared after it became apparent we had lost the vote and went through stages of feeling physically sick and of wanting to emigrate. I thought I had reached the end of my involvement in the quest for my countrys independence. I was then shown the fraud allegations on facebook by friends and went from devastation to anger and bouts of feeling depressed and back again.

    In between this, I still read the Rev Stus articles and marvelled at the spirit of the posters here who rallied far better than me. I became inspired by our amazing Yes movement in George Square with them refusing to give up and at the same time shout out to the world pointing to the corruption and collusion of the WM state machine we have had and still have to endure as they try to break our individual and collective will.

    I wouldn’t have blamed Stu for walking away but now after witnessing a real political awakening across all ages, I too believe there is something in the air. Now im more determined than Ive ever been. We have to take our independence. Being the good guy has got us this far and we almost had them. Now we play by our rules and hopefully would love to see a crowd funded media online of tv, radio and news site. I too want to see Labour wiped out at the GE 2015 in Scotland.

    Im now more than ready to rejoin this fight of our lives and i’ll add my voice to all others calling for Stu to stay on as we need him more than we ever did. Im willing to continue to help fund the awesome wingsoverscotland site.

    To all you people on here I owe my thanks to renewing my hope when I had almost gave up the ghost. You really are an inspiration and im so proud to be part of the project45 who voted Yes. I will never accept Westminster rule. I aim to get those 15 hours of sovereignty I had last Thursday back..for all time.

  189. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    I watched a docu once of begg going on flight to WM what a palaver it was! and I thought how much is this costing the taxpayer? Why is she not at holyrood? Greed?

  190. liz
    Ignored
    says:

    The conspiracy theories on vote rigging will get nowhere and is just diverting folk from the task in hand, which is to increase the 45%

    IMO it’s a waste of time and energy – BTW I do think there is a lot to be suspicious about, especially the fire alarms during counting in Dundee.

    Think about who killed JFK – certainly questionable – but 50 years down he line people are still talking about it.

    I think the next election coming up will be very interesting as all the focus will be on wooing middle England and we need to make sure the people who rely on the BBC and MSM don’t get the wrong info – Scotland’s needs will have zero consideration altho the usual suspects will pretend otherwise.

    Interestingly Rory the tory and 2 other northern English constituencies want the north to be able to compete with Scotland.
    Remember the ‘race to the bottom’ we kept hearing about, obviously that doesn’t matter now.

  191. kerry pippin
    Ignored
    says:

    Trying to catch up on the progress of the “extra powers” discussions on BBC World at One today, I heard what I thought must be a UKIP conference speech. I was disappointed, but not surprised, to find it was Ed Balls, doing a fairly convincing Nigel Farage impersonation. Here’s what he said:

    “So Conference, we should have had tougher rules on immigration from Eastern Europe – it was a mistake not to have transitional controls in 2004. And we must change the rules in the future. Longer transitional controls for new countries. A longer time people have to work before they can get unemployment benefit. Stopping people claiming child benefit and tax credits for families abroad … Tough controls, fair rules. That is what we mean by fair movement not free movement.”

    To be fair on him, I should point out that the “…” replaces the one sentence I agree with: “Cracking down on employers who exploit migrant workers and undercut wages by avoiding the minimum wage and proper rights at work.”

    But the rest of it… I heard it already, in essence, recently from Ed Miliband, and now Ed Balls has expanded on this approach. We’re a Scottish/Romanian family, and I’ve benefited from “free movement” rules in other EU countries, so I felt betrayed by Ed One, and then even more so by Ed Two. How could they do it anyway? The EU rules are perfectly clear. Also, how can it be argued that it’s fair for someone to pay taxes at UK levels, but not be entitled to UK child benefit for their children, wherever they are? Will Ed or Ed now propose a tax rebate for EU workers who are denied equal rights? I don’t think so.

    Wings readers who missed it might be interested to know that World at One coverage of the outcome of the referendum consisted entirely, as far as I heard, of the proposal to limit Scottish MPs’ voting rights at Westminster. We should listen more to BBC Radio 4: what’s not said is as revealing as what is.

  192. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    The poorest area in Scotland,the area with the most food banks, the most signed up to vote, the most targeted by the Yes campaign, the most let down by the Labour party,
    “GLASGOW”
    But they could’ny be bothered to vote??? 75% lowest in the country
    I kinda dont think that sounds logical on any level
    Do you “REALLY”?

  193. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    Unless the wide scale fraud is not tackled, it will occur again and again at any and every election at will!

    Remember the increase in postal ballots, these postal ballots remain in place. Once anyone has signed up to it, it will repeat for all future elections. This above all must be tackled

  194. liz
    Ignored
    says:

    Re the unemployed wanting to join the SNP, I think we could have a fund for folk who don’t have the cash at the mo to enable them to join any of the Yes parties.

  195. Mariaskid
    Ignored
    says:

    If there was vote rigging, and it is a very big ‘if’, it would have to have been on a massive scale. Any organisation with that amount of power would also be able to discount or interfere with a recount, re vote, or complaint. We would be setting ourselves up for another massive disappointment. Also those members of the public who are not that interested in politics would be unlikely to come out again.

    We have to re-group, reorganise and agree on our next step, there is plenty to do. The next time we will be stronger, less naive and more suspicious . UK politics are in flux- we must stand ready to seize our opportunities.

    Lesley-Anne…. I am mobile again, would you like to meet up?

  196. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Just a wee side note to Kendo if he is around. Have you seen this Kendo?

    https://www.facebook.com/thecaledoniannewspaper?fref=nf

  197. kininvie
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding purdah….

    Yet again, a fast one was pulled. Purdah was defined as no new initiatives by either Government.

    Which is why the Vow etc. was couched as a proposal from the leaders of political parties, not the Government.

    Next time round, we need to look at the phrasing more carefully before agreeing to it.

    Meanwhile, pursuing braking of purdah is a waste of effort.

  198. jacksg
    Ignored
    says:

    Just came home and seen this on the BBC red button:

    Salmond has lost the plot says Darling:

    Mr Darling said his opponent must accept the outcome of the referendum, this is the best bit.Meanwhile Labour reached out to supporters who voted for Independence to come

    ‘Home to the party’.

    to quote and old Glasgow saying,

    Aye right i would rather eat my own SH***

  199. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Caledonia, if someone is out of work or on low income then they can join the SNP for £5 a year I believe. You can tell I don’t do the household accounts in this house can’t you. 😛

  200. Kevin Evans
    Ignored
    says:

    Most westminster mp’s don’t have any thoughts of there own – the media creates an opinion of what’s popular in the uk thinking and then mp’s just jump on to it sayin “I support that” without even checking what there agreeing on. Case proven with ed balls immigration speech, millarandom now nhs privitaztion and like the photo shows above anyone who is supporting better together in my pal.

  201. Devereux
    Ignored
    says:

    @stewart bc Fair point. I kinodove like the comfy sofa idea. However, do you think SDP means much to a lot of folk under certain age and those above it are not exactly the target anyway long term??

  202. Piemonteis
    Ignored
    says:

    Re: Party membership

    There’s been a lot of mention on here of joining up to the three pro-independence parties. Personally, I find myself attracted by the Scottish Greens, but whereas the SNP and SSP are undoubtedly parties that stand on a strong independentist platform, I’d like to hear from someone within the Green movement in respect of whether this is the case with the Greens.

    From my understanding, there was a 2:1 split within the Green Party about whether to support independence in the first place, with the decision to support it being taken on the basis that the result would be accepted and it would no longer constitute a key tenant of Green politics after the vote.

    If this is the case, and please correct me if I’m wrong on it, what is the Green Party’s approach now? Are they still a pro-independence party, or was that only until 18th September?

    As with many people on the forum, I could never see myself joining a political party, ever. However, desperate times and all that. Although I agree with most SNP policies, I think it’s important to have 2 or 3 pro-independence parties within the system (like Euskadi or Catalonia), and to give a greater pro-independence choice to the electorate.

  203. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    the scottish greens called for unity.
    when people call for unity they actually mean subservience.
    i alone choose my friends and my politics.

  204. art1001
    Ignored
    says:

    On balance, I do not think we have anything to lose by kicking up a fuss about vote rigging. We will move on in any case.

    Those that support us will not mind and internationally it will play well to our friends and badly for the UK’s image. Many people will conclude that there can be no smoke without fire – like Bush’s Florida count.

    To be frank I always expected that if it got close they would inevitably cheat. The stakes were too high for them. They had the means, the motive and the opportunity.

  205. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    UK politics are in flux- we must stand ready to seize our opportunities.

    And there will be many more opportunities, some expected, some not, on the rocky road to freedom.

  206. Quentin Quale
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T Wonder if they’ll blame the Footsie drop of 1% on Scotland not gaining idependence? Interesting that Weir Group, one of the noisiest of the ‘risk & uncertainty’ brigade, drops by nearly 2%.

  207. The Rough Bounds
    Ignored
    says:

    @Devereaux. 4.16.pm

    We’ve already been through all this stuff about changing the name of the SNP.

    There was a proposal to change the Party’s name to ‘The Social Democrats’ back in the 1960’s and it was thrown out for the following reason.

    It’s called the Scottish National Party because it represents the Nation of the Scots. That means it encompasses and represents all shades of politics in Scotland whether it be red, green or blue. Forget all this posturing; it’s nonsense.

    The SNP is thoroughly democratic and we should all be on board helping them to achieve our freedom.

  208. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Macart, 3:47pm

    SLP (Scottish Labour Party) was the name of the party founded by Jim Sillars in 1976.

    We’ve been here before in Scotland and in the wider UK with both SLP and SDP, both gone.

    New parties need careful planning.

  209. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Quentin Quale, 5:32pm

    O/T Wonder if they’ll blame the Footsie drop of 1% on Scotland not gaining idependence? Interesting that Weir Group, one of the noisiest of the ‘risk & uncertainty’ brigade, drops by nearly 2%.

    All I can say is: LOL

  210. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Dear NAW voter.

    I hope you are still feeling in celebratory mood. After all you won the referendum that said we are better together. I’m guessing though that when you voted NAW to independence you did NOT consider this to be a reason why we are better together did you?

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1482857028663644&set=gm.817867361578363&type=1&theater

  211. willie fae kilwinning
    Ignored
    says:

    Re vote rigging.

    Does anybody know if the woman moving the ballot papers about and the young lad possibly marking the ballot papers have been identified yet?

    Surely, they have to spoken to by the police and explain there actions.

    (notice i didn’t mention cheating)

  212. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Postal vote 70-30? Nae danger.

  213. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    Just a thought — is it worth tapping into the great affection for Scotland through blood ties in the United States, Canada, Australia? Maybe setting up something either virtual or physical, especially in America, along the lines of “independent Scottish embassy” or clubs as a focal point for raising awareness, funding? Might also be used as a media platform? Americans are kind and generous, so many are proud of Scottish heritage — and they have form on ridding themselves of the British Empire!

  214. Krackerman
    Ignored
    says:

    Wonder how this will go down with the UAF crowd?

  215. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk They savaged Scotland, Scottish democracy, their reputation etc and now after 2 business days, Scotland is long forgotten by the biggest nastiest teamGB hypocrites since the Press and Journal took a poop this afternoon.

  216. Clarinda
    Ignored
    says:

    The Rough Bounds @5.32 – I agree wholeheartedly.

    However the one party that needs it’s name clarified is official British Labour Party (BLAB) that hides behind its pretence at calling itself up here the non-existent Scottish Labour Party (Slab).

    Those reported 17 new members of the labour Party must be fair away with themselves – I presume the Labour membership portal must have been in shock – when was the last time there was such a headlong rush?

  217. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    liz says:

    22 September, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    Re the unemployed wanting to join the SNP, I think we could have a fund for folk who don’t have the cash at the mo to enable them to join any of the Yes parties.

    There is an opportunity for the YES movement to morph from a diverse debating society into a real civic power in Scotland. The vacuum caused by government austerity is providing big opportunities to organise charities, food banks, community projects etc. I was touched by the number of food parcels etc donated during YES peace gatherings. There are lots of very nice, generous YES people out there. Let’s get out there and do something practical, shaming our elites, as we prepare for the next push for independence.

    Let’s show our Imperial masters that we can run our country better ourselves.

  218. Joe
    Ignored
    says:

    Re the vote rigging question, there is evidence , Glasgow police have 10 , possibly the tip of the iceberg , can I say we wait and see what if any results the police investigation turns up , if blame can be pointed to anyone with connections to the no camp then the call for a revote/recount can then be used.
    As to joining the snp you can download a form and fill it in if you are still having trouble logging on , and at £1 a month is affordable to the unemployed as I am one and I will be joining as soon as possible.

  219. tombee
    Ignored
    says:

    Maybe it’s my age or maybe I’m just silly, but if there are continued allegations of vote rigging, as mentioned in these threads, and I have seen what is claimed to be, images of yes ballots on NO piles, and alleged filmed evidence of a young man allegedly marking voting papers.
    I have also seen film what appeared to be two women engaged in shredding papers. Ballot boxes arriving at the count, when opened appeared to produce ballot papers already ‘bundled’.

    There may well be acceptable explanations for what these instances appear to portray, but they surely, at the very least, require proper investigation. Do they not.

    The individuals portrayed in the videos are easily recognisable.

    I would have thought that as one of the instances appeared on a Sky News item, that it would at least merited further investigation by them.

  220. Tîm Criced i Gymru
    Ignored
    says:

    This is spinmaster mathematician & journalist Glenn Campbell on BBC feed at 16:56: Yes party member surge…
    Not just the SNP but also the other parties in the Yes campaign seem to be benefiting from a surge in membership.
    In the case of the SNP they say that their membership has gone up from something like 25,000 to, at 4pm today, more than 42,000.
    They are now within striking distance of overtaking the Liberal Democrat membership across the UK.
    The Greens say they have also picked up 3,000 members since the referendum vote. They only had 2,000 to start with, so that is an even more extraordinary increase in their size.

    WOT?!?!?!

    How can a 50% increase (however remarkable and welcome that is to see – good on yer, Greens) in Scot.Green membership be EVEN MORE extraordinary than a 68% increase in SNP membership?!

  221. alistair (Stirling)
    Ignored
    says:

    (looks like there’s two alistair’s on here now..)

    Surely no one thinks that the SNP are really going to change their name ? They’ve just almos doubled in size in the last 4 days – why would they do that.
    The whole debate about one banner/coalition for the next GE election needs to be about a banner for “the movement” and not to set up some new party. There are loads of folk who will never vote for the SNP (name change or not). We need to show that it is a multi-party collective of both political and non-political groupings (e.g. Business for Scotland, National Collective, etc) and then you might have a chance of winning the labour seats. Some of them have massive majorities and SNP have no chance of winning on their own. You may also have the weird effect of Tory voters tactically voting for Labour to keep out any pro independence candidates as well. The other lot are not daft ….!

  222. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    SLP (Scottish Labour Party) was the name of the party founded by Jim Sillars in 1976.

    It’s a pity that JS never kept the copyright, therefby preventing London Labour from pinching it, and freeing it up for Labour for Indy to use, if they desire to start an autonomous Labour Party in the near future.

    How about:

    The Independent Labour Party?

  223. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m still scunnered. I honestly feel like I’m in a foreign land.

    The name should be The Scottish Independence Party.

  224. Vambomarbeleye
    Ignored
    says:

    Guys! Move on. Onward and upward.
    I have put forward to stu the idea of a little red book. This would list each no msp with their lies false promises and incompetence. Ie why brown flogged the gold. Get them through every letter box in the land. Let’s hold them all to account and put them out of office. I would contribute financially for this.
    We all ready have the vast amount of the information on the site all ready.

  225. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/22/city-trader-bet-900000-scotland-no-vote-scottish-referendum

    “He admitted that the final polls showing a brief yes lead and then a very tight advantage to no had made him nervous. But as in Quebec, the no campaign made a stronger offer of new powers at the last stage, enough to cement their lead and too late to allow the yes campaign to respond.

    Yes policy pledges and tactics, such the allegations that Scotland’s NHS was under threat, used by Alex Salmond, the first minister and Scottish National party leader, were “a momentum of vapours”, Peter said.”

    Peter and the City make a lot of money out of Scotland but the 55 like it that way.

  226. art1001
    Ignored
    says:

    I would like to fly the idea of a Scottish Government in Exile located in Paris for example. Would could create a virtual debating chamber, elect members and have online debates. We could organise international sanctions against Westminster goods, services etc until they recognise the legitimate claim of the Scottish People to self-determination.

  227. Albaman
    Ignored
    says:

    So now the Labour Party have an “on line /twitter” request to SAVE the N.H.S.!!, so it is o.k. For them to high light the Consevitives distraction of the N.H.S. , but when it was the S.N.P. And the ” Yes ” do so it was scaremongering !!, and they wonder why we will never give up.

  228. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Glad to hear you are mobile again Maria. We can meet up again if you like but not this week anyway, we have, what is they call it, oh yes a wedding to go to Dan Suff. 😉

    With all this noise Labour are now making about all their supporters who voted YES to come back “home” is it me or does anyone else think Labour are bricking it BIG time? 😛

  229. Onwards
    Ignored
    says:

    75% lowest in the country

    I was disappointed with the Glasgow turnout also.
    And the small scale of the YES win there, compared to the mood on the streets.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think the big Celtic Euro game on TV helped, or the overcast weather on the day.

    I was chapping up voters in the evening, and there were plenty of houses with the game on.

    “Aye, we’re going to vote later” was the reply a few times.
    By the time the game was over it was dark outside. That combined with a few drinks would have kept many indoors.

    Don’t know how much difference it would have made, but it certainly didn’t help. If we even get another chance it has to be in a month with long summer nights.

  230. TD
    Ignored
    says:

    Tîm Criced i Gymru

    Far be it from me to defend anyone at the BBC but the Green Party increase, based on the figures you quote is 150% compared with the 68% increase for the SNP, so on that narrow point, I think Campbell is right to say that the Greens’ increase is more remarkable.

  231. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I think you’ve misunderstood Tim.

    The Greens have picked up 3,000 new members to add to the 2,000 members they already had. This gives them 5,000 members in total now. If my maths is any good this is a 150% rise in membership for the Greens. 😉

  232. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Harvie is a gem. Not all Greens a like him unfortunately. Robin Harper, former leader was in the MO campaign, Remember him?

    I saw tow English CND wimmen at the Faslane Rally on telly say that they voted No,. The convenor of the SCND is also in the Labour Party. That should tell you plenty and a slap in the face to the many long standing SCND members, such as Brian Quail.

    I hear some of the RIC, etc, are hoping to capitalise on this and form a new party. So are some other groups. I have had experience of this in the left. They all want us to drop everything and “Unite” around their diktat and latest short lived groups and parties.

    The SNP have recruited 16,000 since Thursday and will go on.

    Tommy Sheridan says we should all unite around the SNO for Indoendence in today’s Herald.

    SOME, not all in these interest groups spent more time demonising Alex Salmond and Tommy Sheridan for their own reasons. Whoever succeeds Alex Salmond will face the same.

  233. msean
    Ignored
    says:

    Call it simply Independence. Everytime an opponent says its name they hammer hame yer message,simples.

  234. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley-Anne

    TB is a disease. The TB in the picture is also a disease and a disgrace.

    That pic should be put on a billboard so everyone can see it.

  235. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    A spokeswoman for Scottish Labour said “We don’t give out exact details on our membership figures but I can confirm that numbers have gone up since the referendum and those numbers are in the hundreds.”

    20,000 new members for pro-independence parties compared to “a few hundred”, wonder how many of those few hundred were in George Sq on Friday night.

    Your “Scottish” Labour Party is finished and may it rot in hell.

  236. Mariaskid
    Ignored
    says:

    Who can ask for international observers at elections? Is this power reserved to Westminster? We have big elections coming up in 2015 and 2016, so we need to have complete confidence in the results.

  237. Proud Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    There is zero chance that any vote rigging was on a scale large enough to affect 400,000 votes.

    The actual winning margin was 383,937 votes. If half of these votes (191,969) had gone from NO to YES then YES would have won by 1 vote. Therefore on 191,969 needed to be manipulated across 32 count halls i.e. 5,999 votes per hall switched from NO to YES.

    We have seen TV footage of bundles of YES papers in the NO bin at the Clackmananshire count (at least three different YES piles can be seen in the NO bin). At this stage (before the count was declared) a local recount could have taken place so there would have been silly to mix votes together like this. So why were they together in the NO bin?

    Would it be possible for a couple of people to transfer 5,999 votes at each count from YES to NO?

    For the record, I don’t accept there was mass vote rigging but I would like a reasonable explanation as to why YES votes were placed in the NO bin when there was still a possibility of a local recount before the result had been declared. I think this needs to be answered.

    But I do think we need to focus on the next target–the 2015 GE and removing the Unionist Labour Party from Scotland. A clear strategy encompassing ALL the YES groups (political and non-political) needs to be worked out in order to achieve this. If this new group–the 45+ or whatever–can come together and get that 1.6 million voters (or close to it) out in May 2015 they will win every seat in Scotland.

    What then will WM do?

  238. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    Rumour on the internet that Gordon Brown was paid £300,000 for his interventions and speeches?

    FFSake!

    Please, please, please may this be true.

  239. Video of Ruth Davidson freely admitting BT were illegally sampling and analysing postal votes as they were being opened.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcL69gUtPb0

  240. Proud Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    Therefore on 191,969 needed to be manipulated across 32 count halls i.e. 5,999 votes per hall switched from NO to YES.

    This should, of course, read:

    Therefore only 191,969 needed to be manipulated across 32 count halls i.e. 5,999 votes per hall switched from YES to NO for NO to win by 1 vote.

  241. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    msean says:

    “Call it simply Independence. Everytime an opponent says its name they hammer hame yer message, simples.”

    Whateffer. It has to be agreed at he same time as we choose the new leader and give their right wing. Ann Boak and other Labour Nationalist numpties and even the Nazi Saluting LOL have the cheek to equate Scottish Nationalism with Nazis.

  242. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    The postal votes 800k were sent down to England for scanning before the vote. Can anyone explain that one.

  243. Cag-does-thinking
    Ignored
    says:

    I know there is a big debate about vote rigging. It’s not a disadvantage to query the result for several reasons.

    1. The BT parties want to move on and start to attack each other for the forthcoming election. They are for various reasons keen to move on.

    2. If there has been any jiggery pokery it will be something the establishment are desperate to keep in the file marked closed. Keeping it closed might cause them to make a mistake.

    3. It keeps a momentum in the debate, otherwise as can be seen people splinter into various groups. Yes was the thing that kept us together

    4. I believe that some of the “trouble” in George Square was more than what it appeared as an attempt to disperse the YES campaign. The best way to react to that is to keep annoying people.

    5. The longer the debate goes on in parallel with the “powers” failing to appear the more likely it is to gain a bit of traction close to an election, maybe enough traction for a party like the SNP to put referendum tied into perhaps the EU in/our referendum in their manifesto.

    6. It stops the Tories forgetting that we might be unfinished business.

    7. The media will find it harder to pontificate that Scots are really good little Britishers who love UKIP etc.

    8. It’ll annoy those Labour politicians waiting to get their ermine and awards.

    I’m not saying that it happened but some very odd voting patterns emerged, that in Fife being one such example.

    I applaud people joining political parties but in some regards single issue campaigning is much more effective and gets to the heart of the debate. As you can imagine there must be some good people in Labour who have good hearts but they are not those making policy or standing for election these days.

  244. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Welsh not British (@welshnotbritish)

    I find this truly shocking. She says ‘they’ had people sampling ballots as they were coming in. Does anyone know if there was anyone from the YES side present?

  245. jacksg
    Ignored
    says:

    hello,

    someone posted a link earler today of Alex Salmond’s address to his Const meeting yesterday? think it may have been Leslie-Anne i cant find it could you send it again.

    cheers..

  246. She admits that they found the results encouraging so someone must have been telling them what the votes were.

    The interviewer picks up on it then lets her admit it then ignores her answer.

  247. WantonWampum.
    Ignored
    says:

    Brighter people than me on WoS must have realistic, achievable ways of sorting out the system.

    We had it ass-backwards.

    The Electoral System requires a total overhaul to minimise the chances of any future Electoral Fraud.

    We must act – today.

    In only 8 months we face another bout of Electoral Fraud that satisfies only SLAB scabs. For WM.

    I do not know how we can force Electoral Change, but we need to somehow make it clear that we will take action unless the System is changed to a trustworthy – one person one vote system.

    Postal Votes should require a medical exemption from Polling Station Voting.

    Despite 70,000 on-line signatories alleging voting fraud, the accused (chief counting officer) says the count was legal.??

    AND SHE WINS AGAIN. FFS.

  248. Labour NO more
    Ignored
    says:

    Treachery!

  249. Dave Beveridge
    Ignored
    says:

    Somebody suggested renaming SNP as Scotland Forward which sounds a good idea. However, having the word “Democrat” anywhere in the name leaves the MSM with an open goal of “the dum nats”.

    Another point: there is already a pro Indy newspaper in Scotland – the Scots Independent. What would it take to up this to a daily (or maybe a weekly to begin with)? It’s not like there’s a shortage of folk online who could contribute their talents to produce articles. Printing facilities are already obviously in place.

    I sometimes think we need to all be under one banner rather than running off in various directions. I must’ve been asked to join about 15 different Facebook pages in the last couple of days, none of which I’ll ever have the time to look at.

  250. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    My point is if they rigged the postal vote then they only needed small scale interference at the count.Why did they need 120% of postal ballots?

  251. Molly
    Ignored
    says:

    And heres STV giving Labour the opportunity ‘ to reconnect ‘ with their faithful on Scotland Tonight- John McKay you ‘ve just lost another viewer . Charlatans

  252. Tony Little
    Ignored
    says:

    @Vambomarbeleye

    I like the idea, but I think you’ll find that “the little red book” was used some time ago – I used to have a copy!

  253. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Edward
    Unless the wide scale fraud is not tackled, it will occur again and again at any and every election at will!

    Remember the increase in postal ballots, these postal ballots remain in place. Once anyone has signed up to it, it will repeat for all future elections. This above all must be tackled
    Not true Individual Voter Registration will be in place for the 2015GE and postal vote applications renewed every 3 years. Stop scaremongering, find out the truth for yourself.

    @tombee
    Ballot boxes arriving at the count, when opened appeared to produce ballot papers already ‘bundled’.
    As explained above postal ballots have to be checked against the valid Postal Voting Statements and part of that check is to make sure the number received tally with the number rejected and the number placed in the Postal Ballot Box so they have already been counted and bundled to go in the box. Or are you saying that they all should be unbundled and posted individually through the slot at the top so they look like polling station boxes when emptied?

    @Anybody else wanting to scaremonger about the vote
    Please inform yourself about these matters before posting. There were experienced agents for the Yes parties at the voting, the postal voting and the counts and they have not complained. They know the systems and have not complained. You don’t know the systems and, without bothering to find out, complain.

    If there is one thing Wings has tried to do over the whole of this campaign it is to try and get us to think for ourselves rather than rely on others.

  254. Balaaargh
    Ignored
    says:

    @L-A,

    That photo of Tony Bliar is photoshopped. The shadow under the leg on the flag is too evenly layered. And the tag beaubodor is that of someone who does political cartoons.

    @Tim Criced,

    3,000 new members on an existing membership of 2,000 is a 150% increase which is more extraordinary than the SNP’s 68% 😀

    And finally,

    https://archive.today/U75UN

    So now he’s resigned, he has the time to bring down the Westminster establishment with a great force of nazi followerd! *sigh* When will they learn that democracy is not the media’s to give but for the people to take.

  255. Tîm Criced i Gymru
    Ignored
    says:

    … sorry ’bout that!
    Don’t worry about my maths, just my reading ability!
    And well done Greens and SNP and SSP… onwards step by step – NEXT TIME there will absolutely NO doubt whatsoever about where ALBA is wanting to go.

  256. Tam Jardine
    Ignored
    says:

    Just remembered that before the vow came this little beauty:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/nick-clegg-signs-a-pledge/

    Surely when Miliband, Cameron, Davidson, Lamont and Clegg all made this pledge, they were explicitly ruling out changing the status of Scottish MPS through the line:

    “We believe that Scotland should have a stronger Scottish Parliament while retaining full representation for Scotland in the UK parliament.”

    I never asked them to make that commitment – surely that blows the Tory plans on voting rights for Scottish MPS out of the water, no?

  257. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    I hope they dont come to my door trying to “reconnect” or my foot will be reconnecting with their arse.

  258. Proud Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    This new pan-independence group needs leadership. Fast. I know the YES campaign was very much a grassroots, bottom-up approach and I think that should continue with the post-ref indy groups. BUT–the YES campaign still had a focus, a leadership, an organisation behind it. I think the 45+ movement needs something similar. Anyone know what Blair Jenkins is doing these days?

    Also–come the GE it might be better to keep our powder dry, so to speak. Don;t tell the polling companies how you intend to vote or tell them some other party. Don’t let them know our strength for if they think they are winning they will be lulled into a false sense of security and, most likely, leave the big guns at home. We’ll know our strength from our own polling–we just don’t need to let the Unionists know it. Campaigning certainly but not the big YES-type rallies. Keep ourselves not invisible but certainly much more under the radar.

    Thoughts?

  259. Liquid Lenny
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T and might have been on earlier, if so apologies, but Huffington Post list companies to be boycotted by The 45

    https://archive.today/rtFDG

  260. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh look. The Tories are revolting, in EVERY sense of the word. 😛

    https://archive.today/aCQbR

    Are getting one step closer to Westminster abandoning the result of the referendum. If they do does this not mean they have broken the agreement in which case Scottish Government would have the right to call Scotland independent by default wouldn’t it?

  261. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Does anyone else have concerns about the amount of people posting on here and other sites. Actively trying to discourage people looking into alleged vote rigging!

  262. nigel
    Ignored
    says:

    Listen-lets get this clear from the outset, there is NO WAY on gods earth that london will grant anyone on these islands but them, a penny from the whisky, oil, corp and personal taxation which presently wings its way southwards.

    They have been having a ball down there, spending present and future revenues keeping their pals in the city happy, dishing it out on illegal wars, royalty, banks, and their good selves, whilst giving the other natives of the uk a bit o pocket money to keep em happy.

    And, to cap it all, they now have the audacity to say we are living in austere times and your bock grants will be cut further!

    How stupid do they think we are? (I have to admit though, my belief has now been confirmed that 55% of Scots ARE indeed thick, as demonstrated at the referendum.)

    A strange race, indeed, the Scots are. No other nation on earth constantly denigrates its own peoples, and laughs at the thought of them making their own decisions. These same people are apparently happy that Scots decisions are taken outwith its borders.

    I do not see Scotland progressing one iota as long as the Scots think the way they do.

  263. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    We have to get this into Scotland http://biolinksolutions.com/biometric-voter-registration/overview/

    And we have to change postal vote rules. Right now you can get a postal vote for no reason. At the very least people need to give a reason. People can easily get on the electoral register even if you do not live in Scotland. All you need is a contactable address and not be on an English or Welsh or NI register.

    Biometric voting is virtually unbreakable and its cheap.

  264. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    Has the SNP made noises about changing its name?

    If not, I probably don’t think it’s coming and would be seen as too cynical by many I imagine.

    It wasn’t the name of the party that’s the issue, and I think most rational folks can set aside the BNP connotation, but the media portrayal of events.

    Changing the name of the SNP would be a distraction, it wasn’t about the SNP or anyone party and that has to be hit home time and time again.

    I’m not convinced on the idea for a new party either, as has been mentioned it requires a lot of political strategy and new parties by definition take years to build on any initial successes and would crucially be missing any reputation for experience and capability.

  265. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Big Jock
    The postal votes 800k were sent down to England for scanning before the vote. Can anyone explain that one.
    Of course they can’t because they weren’t.
    If you have any proof of your ridiculous assertion then let us have it

  266. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Balaaargh says:

    @L-A,

    That photo of Tony Bliar is photoshopped. The shadow under the leg on the flag is too evenly layered. And the tag beaubodor is that of someone who does political cartoons.

    Aye I found out after I put up the link. Sorry folks. Damn I was so hoping it was real. 😉

    http://madhatters.me.uk/2014/08/16/lies-damn-lies-and-photoshop/

  267. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    I’veNeverSeenBraveheart says: 22 September, 2014 at 12:13 pm:

    “Labour, hang your heads in shame.”

    You should know by this time that Labour have no shame.

    “Funny how this wasn’t in any of the papers or on the TV…

    And it wasn’t on the BBC either and if you want to protest about that gang of bare-faced-liars then go to this site, (unless you’ve been already), and sign the petition to rid Scotland of the Westminster Propagandists.

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/574/697/105/put-scotland-in-control-of-scottish-broadcasting/

  268. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley-Anne says Aye I found out after I put up the link. Sorry folks. Damn I was so hoping it was real.

    Well the photo might as well be as that creepy bastard Miranda has been walking over everyone since day one. Also he has some very dodgy friends dead & alive.

  269. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    @art1001:

    We certainly would welcome your government and I’d be the first to support it. I am not sure the French government would feel very happy about it, though. The English might well decide to sluice the Channel Tunnel as a retaliation. But we did already host the Belgian government during WWI (In St-Adresse near Le Havre), so that wouldn’t be a first.

  270. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    jacksg says:

    hello,

    someone posted a link earler today of Alex Salmond’s address to his Const meeting yesterday? think it may have been Leslie-Anne i cant find it could you send it again.

    cheers..

    You are right Jack it was me. 😉

    Just for you here it is again. 😀

    http://tinyurl.com/mvb3myw

  271. Tony Little
    Ignored
    says:

    @Big Jock

    I asked elsewhere about the 125% postal ballot papers and how many were left unused. Did anyone actually manage this? If only (seems astonishing saying ONLY) 85% of the electorate voted, that means that there should have been close to 1.5 million left over (i.e. 40% of 4.2 million voters)

    Where are/were these unused ballot papers kept?

    If, and we have to say that this is still a big if as there is no compelling evidence, there was fraud on a scale this big, the only practical way of doing so would be the postal vote. Relying on 32 counts, with several “agents” at each count is not impossible, but opens up a hugely increased possibility of exposure.

    The video “evidence” is disturbing at first glance, but I have only seen three videos which can all be explained away comfortably. Let’s not get too sidetracked by this, we have another fight on our hands.

    The other possibility is through impersonation at the voting centres by people pretending to be someone else. We were led to believe that upwards of 25% of the electorate applied for a postal vote, but only18% actually made use of them. Did the “missing” 7% not vote, or voted in person? This is of course a far larger “conspiracy” which would involve hundreds if not thousands of people so can be discounted I think.

    What these rumours and examples show us is that the present system still remains open to potential abuse, despite many complaints about this in the past. the EC is an Establishment organisation, they will never in a million years admit anything went wrong.

  272. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Hand clapping Angus McNeil Mp seems to have queried it. Calm the jets big man!

  273. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    The Chief Counting Officer, Mary Pitkeithly, has issued a statement today in answer to material circulating on social media, that she is satisfied that the COUNT is satisfactory.

    Still doesn’t really say there couldn’t be fraud before the ballot boxes were delivered to the COUNT. The count was observed,the other part of the process was not. There is no doubt that a lot is down to trust.

  274. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Brian B says: 22 September, 2014 at 12:14 pm:

    “She had this to say in her twitter feed: “The picture was a set up. Horrible, nasty, odious people who will stoop to any level. Eugh!”

    Aye! but which of the Better Together alliance of bare-faced-liars set it up? Furthermore, knowing who the guy is she seems rather happy about it in the picture.

    I suppose she also claims the massed attack dogs of the Better Together Alliance who attacked the YES campaign people in Glasgow were set-up too?

  275. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Did we expect her to say anything else!

  276. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve just watched the video of wee Ruthie admitting to her team taking “tallies” during the opening of the postal votes BEFORE the count. Sure this HAS to be illegal, isn’t it?

    For those who have missed the original post by Welsh not British (@welshnotbritish) here it is again.

    http://tinyurl.com/q4pavh9

  277. James Caithness
    Ignored
    says:

    Two things.

    1. I sent a request on ”write to them” website to Anne Begg asking her about her friendship with Mr McDonald of the National Front.

    2. I am waiting eagerly to hear from Derek Bateman has to say after he does his research.

  278. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @ErinT says: 22 September, 2014 at 12:25 pm:

    “Why Alexander and Kennedy (supposedly!) wanted to be seen with him when they try and campaign from the Left on these and other equality issues is beyond me!

    There is no one that the Westminster Establishment will not welcome with open arms to protect their position at the trough. Just look at the list of other organisations with well earned bad reputations that Labour, Tory and LibDem parties have aligned themselves with.

  279. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m writing to Anne Begg as well, I despise the fash, in all their guises. I don’t give a rat’s anus what she said on her Twitter

  280. Bob Sinclair
    Ignored
    says:

    I think wee Ruthie might just be getting a wee visit from Police Scotland with regard to this.

  281. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    AuldA(lliance)

    Dont the French still owe us for not turning up 🙂

  282. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    that’s OUTRAGEOUS if they opened postal votes before the actual day and could look @ them, to see how they were doing.
    this would allow them to target specific groups who were postal voters.
    it’s disgusting if true.

  283. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Please make it so Bob Sinclair!!!

  284. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    Silly question, but I’m not acquainted with postal ballot system (seems to be an anglo-saxon only procedure). Someone casts a vote, sends the envelope then dies in an accident. Is their ballot counted?

  285. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    p s
    the PV sample would allow them to target groups who were not postal voters.
    i call FOUL!

  286. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    Well someone has to make the complaint.

    Why were they being sampled in the first place?

  287. dougiekdy
    Ignored
    says:

    SNP membership now up by 18000 – are you sure it was a no vote???

    It won’t be the next time!

  288. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    AuldA says:

    22 September, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Silly question, but I’m not acquainted with postal ballot system (seems to be an anglo-saxon only procedure). Someone casts a vote, sends the envelope then dies in an accident. Is their ballot counted?”

    Yes.

  289. Marco McGinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding name changes, or the adoption of a party alliance for the next GE, can I suggest something simple and straightforward such as the Scotland Party, or something along the lines of ECOSSE.

    With ECOSSE, the Eco part would signify the Green Party, the two esses to signify Scottish Socialism, and the remaining E encompassing everyone.

  290. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    That video of goofy ruthie should be shared widely

  291. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    About the sampling of postal votes, would that explain why YES camp looked downhearted 15 mins after voting closed. They might have been sampling as well.

  292. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    I do not know if there was vote rigging, because I was not there in person. But I do know this. The vote on Scottish independence could not have been allowed to pass. As usual, all you have to do is to follow the money.

    Look at the economic situation of Britain (and the “West” in general). Interest rates cannot rise even a tenth of a percent — and will never rise again, no matter what the Bank of England or the Fed claim. If they do, the whole pyramid will come crashing down. Why do you think Deutsche Bank was so much against Scottish independence? DB has $70 trillion in derivatives. That is twenty times the annual GDP of Germany! This is a bank which is utterly bankrupt — and can only get away with it by continuing the present system of zero interest rates and free money.

    One day, the whole system will come crashing down — and people will say: how come we never realised what a facade it was all along?

    Britain can only borrow cheaply because it can point to its oil reserves. Lose these and the costs of borrowing for rUK would rise. They do not need to skyrocket. An increase of even 0.50% would sink the whole ship.

    Without oil (and Scotland’s other exports), the UK trade deficit would sink below the earth. The pound would be relegated to a second-tier currency.

    Add to the fact that Britain losing 1/3 of its landmass would lead to calls for the rUK to be chucked off the UN Security Council in favour of India.

    Think what some people are prepared to do all for the sake of one hundred, one thousand pounds. And think what our establishment would be prepared to do to keep the whole facade up and the merry-go-round of cheap borrowing going — trillions are at stake here.

    The establishment obviously had a plan in hand to prevent a YES vote. There is no way that the security services would not have had this eventually planned (was it really about ISIS that Cameron held his meeting on Monday morning before flying to Aberdeen?). All they care about is the continuation of the union — for better or worse.

    My conclusion: vote rigging was certainly planned, the contingency was certainly drawn up. But was it used? If it was, and you believe this, you need to look at ways it would have been done from the top down — not by individual missing boxes, that would be too risky and would not pull it anyway…. Just some food for thought…

  293. Flower of Scotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Some folk have set up Facebook pages deliberately bashing over 55s for the NO vote! I’ve had a particularly bad debate with one guy who set up one of these sites! I tried to blame Gordon Brown, Darling and SLAB. He wasn’t pleased and got really annoyed with me when I explained that lots of over 55s did loads of canvassing, leafleting, going on social media. Spoke about Wings, Bella, Newsnet, wee Ginger Dug!. I’m beginning to think that the Guy is a SLAB himself and trying to get people back to Labour under false pretences. Some people were agreeing with him! Annoying!

  294. TYRAN
    Ignored
    says:

    I recall the postal votes being opened – I am sure this was one week before the big day. I cannot recall what newspaper site I read this.

    Now, this may be fine.

    However, if Davidson says they were being sampled and the reports had been positive for no…

    Why would Westminster shit its pants heavy and come out with things like the vow based on such samples? Makes no sense.

  295. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    @A.N.Surgent:

    I am sure we owe you a lot of things, but it’d better to discuss this before a good haggis (or Tripes à la mode de Caen, if you prefer) in a remote croft under a typical dreich weather. No? 😉

  296. David Stevenson
    Ignored
    says:

    Is there anyone here who was registered by the Yes campaign to attend postal ballot related events? If so, is Davidson telling the truth? The implication may be that some Councils do this pre-Count opening but others do not.

  297. Roughian
    Ignored
    says:

    Had heard about the Ruth Davidson claim on opening postal votes but not seen it till now. If it was legal to open them as samples but illegal to discuss them until 10.00pm on Thursday how come Better Together were able to take encouragement from them and know what the demographic was. This part of the programme went out at 10.45pm. They must have some pretty fancy database to track this info in 45mins. However I hear on the news that the Chief Counting officer says everything was in order.

  298. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruth Davidson admits Better Together were sampling postal votes.

    I had a postal but if I had known they were “sample opening” I would not have postal voted. This is just outrageous or its entirely legal.

  299. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    AuldA

    Oui, and dont forget a dram or two. 🙂

  300. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Bob Sinclair says:

    I think wee Ruthie might just be getting a wee visit from Police Scotland with regard to this.

    Let’s hope so and then quite a few of her NAW supporters as well. 😛

    While I’m on about illegalities. Here is something from Facebook that I jope someone “in the know” legally speaking can clarify. 😉

    https://www.facebook.com/VoteYesvVoteNaw/photos/pcb.1504664959771897/1504664919771901/?type=1&theater

    I know MY ballot paper was blank. I know 100% because I folded my paper once, kissed it whilst saying under my breath “this one’s for you Margo!” I then folded it again before posting into the ballot box!

  301. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, I suppose. The primary aim is to reduce or remove Labour MPs from Scotland.

    I was surprised how few (none!) MPs or MSPs moved over to support Independence. They above all could see the lies by the NO campaign, and the Westminster politicians especially Danny Alexander and Alistair Darling. Plus the Brown. But none of them had the integrity to stand up and say “this is a lie”. What happened to integrity?

    Perhaps over the next few months an eye should be kept on them all, to see if any express total disgust at the betrayal of Brown’s “vow” and their own party leader Miliband (the wrong brother), and someone in the right place could woo them.

    But also to keep a check of the lies told by Better Together against the truth which emerges, and provide a short, constantly updated, prominent page. I know of at least 1 NO voter who researched enough to be able to notice in future, and as the exposed lies stack up, perhaps the best future campaigners for a YES vote are totally disgusted NO voters, ones who were known to be NO voters by their friends and family.

    We know much of the Better Together campaign was a lie. Well, the truth stands forever, lies last for a day, and that day was 18th September 2014.

  302. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Roughian
    the count may well have been order, opening up PV samples prior to voting day IS NOT.

  303. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Lesley-Anne
    mine wasn’t blank on the back.
    they were also sent to be scanned south of the boarder.
    never will i use a postal vote again.

  304. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    So Davidson says its illegal to talk about postal votes “sampled” and they are not counted until polling day but on camera Ruth Davidson openly discusses how she’s encouraged by the postal vote results she has been informed about.

    If postal votes are not counted in sampling, how did Davidson even know what the postal vote are?

    If Davidson is actually telling the truth, those opening postal votes and counting them also broke the law.

  305. tombee
    Ignored
    says:

    To hand clapping,

    Thanks for that response. The fact that the bundled ballots could have been postal ballots was not made clear in the item referred to.
    The other matters, however, are perhaps more difficult to explain away, I would suggest.

    As for ‘scaremongering’. Should I refrain from questioning that which I believe to be worthy of fair scrutiny. Your explanation re the bundles from the box, I accept without question, silly of me not to have considered that. However, the others, I would respectfully suggest, are rather more difficult to discount.

    No need for such a high handed put down though I would have thought.

  306. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Here is a follow up to my last post re ballot paper being blank on the reverse.

    https://www.facebook.com/VoteYesvVoteNaw/photos/pcb.1504664959771897/1504664943105232/?type=1&theater

    From what I’ve read on this post it does in fact appear to be the fact that the reverse of ALL ballot papers were NOT supposed to be blank!

  307. Ann
    Ignored
    says:

    About vote rigging / fraud.

    When enteringthe polling station and handing over your polling card to receive your ballot paper, there were two people there. One marking off our name from the register and another I think was taking your polling card reference and putting it against a number running down a white sheet.

    Surely the easiest way to find out whether the votes cast and the votes counted were the same is use these two pieces as evidence.

    By rights they and the ballot papers should all add up to the same figure.

  308. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Lesley-Anne
    south of the border even.

  309. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    “Rational folk” maybe, but we are taking about the uneducated and bare faced liars, who equate the Scottish National party with Nazis.

    The SWP and Patrick Harvie supported Independence, but repeatedly qualified with, “But, we are not nationalists”.

    The difference between Scottish Nationalists and British Nationalists is that the Brit Nats do not call themselves that. Scottish Irish and Welsh Nationalists do not say that they are better than anyone else, nor wish to rule anyone else. Compare that with English/British Nationalism.

    A change of title and leader does not men that we change our ideals or policies. It just gives our lying opponents one less stick to beat us with.

  310. TYRAN
    Ignored
    says:

    This wasn’t the site I read, which stated several different local authorities. Anyway…

    – “City of Edinburgh Council postal vote staff began verifying the returned postal votes on Thursday [11th] in preparation for the count next week.”

    https://archive.today/Z1hIu

    The vow was Tuesday 16th along with a lot of other nonsense.

  311. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    I looked at both sides of my ballot paper and held it for a while before placing my X [YES] and I don’t recall seeing anything on the back. I folded it twice before placing in the box.

  312. Famous15
    Ignored
    says:

    AuldA.Funny you should mention that because I was a polling agent for YES at a polling station in a church hall and the minister told me he had officiated at a funeral the day before and his parishioner had voted NO by post before he died.

    BTW I am not in favour of questioning the vote without evidence.Lots of professionals ,many YES voters,were involved.At every election there are frauds exposed and anomalies like the dead man but are only pursued if the result is tight.

    I am more concerned at the lies and bias by state broadcasters. BBC stories regarding NHS Scotland were false and damaging. I for one question the legitamacy of a vote obtained by lies,smears and frightening the elderly.Darling it is mean to say to the elderly that you will lose your British pension when you know they would not lose their pension but just the name you gave it.That is wicked and you said it three times every time you were interviewed and compliant BBC did not expose you!

  313. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    Almost 100% sure mine had a number on the back, if these were invalid wouldnt the spoiled vote count be bigger than what it was.

  314. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a wee email from Harman the one who so liked PIE.

    Ed gives his speech to Labour Party conference tomorrow, the final one before the next election.

    I know it will be brilliant, bold, passionate, and get to the heart of how he will lead our country.

    This speech is a huge moment — not just for Ed, but for all of us who share his conviction that Britain deserves better than this government.

    And because of that, Ed doesn’t want to be the only one up on that stage tomorrow. He wants as many of you with him as possible — and I mean that (almost!) literally.

    We will be projecting pictures of thousands of Labour supporters on the big screen behind Ed. You should add yours — it’s done through Facebook and it takes just a couple of clicks:

    (You’ll be asked to authorise an app — don’t worry, it won’t post anything to your wall)

    Every one of us has a crucial part to play in this campaign. It is the size and determination of our movement that will win us the next election.

    Harriet Harman
    Deputy Leader of the Labour Party

  315. Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Let’s hope England pushes for it’s own parliament.

  316. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I thought the whole night was strange. The people being turned away at polling stations having already voted. The mischief tweets about polling stations closing early when they legally can’t until 10pm. 10.30 Lamont speaks as if post a no vote victory before the boxes are in count! Westminster saying it is releaved to SKY NEWS. All the polls suddenly converging at 48% yes. Bookies odds suddenly going 10/1 against independence at 11pm. Vote fraud in Glasgow.Fire alarm Dundee. Two biggest yes cities producing lowest turnout! Glasgow black cabs carrying ballot boxes.

  317. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    As far as I understand things folks the actual opening of the postal ballots is not illegal. As I understand it when the postal ballots were received they were first of all supposed to be cross checked to confirm that the inner envelope contained a valid vote. The envelopes were then permitted to be opened. once they had bundles of 50 they were wrapped in a elastic band and put into a ballot box ready for the ballot count on Thursday. NO, I repeat NO actual counting of YES and NO ballots was permitted.

  318. Another Union Dividend
    Ignored
    says:

    The !7,000 plus new members are joining the SNP because it is the only party that can win Westminster elections against Labour in 2015.

    The Greens and SSP should, as Tommy Sheridan says, stand aside next May and save their money and build their resources and organisation for the next Scottish Parliamentary Regional List elections in 2016 where under the PR system they will have an increased presence at Holyrood and probably a share of government

  319. Albanach
    Ignored
    says:

    @Lesley-Anne
    When I voted i had a bar code on the back of my ballot, the lady at the polling station wouldn’t let anyone put the ballot in the box until she saw the bar code on the back of the folded ballot

  320. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Will we ever know the truth. Perhaps Salmond is wise enough to know he can never win a referendum against the British state. Hence he is talking of going in to an election on a mandate to declare independence with the majority vote. Who knows if the SNP can get 60% in 2015 that would be a mandate! Surely if they make it clear that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence. Then its just as valid as any referendum result.

  321. David
    Ignored
    says:

    Flower of Scotland says:
    22 September, 2014 at 7:29 pm
    Some folk have set up Facebook pages deliberately bashing over 55s for the NO vote! I’ve had a particularly bad debate with one guy who set up one of these sites! I tried to blame Gordon Brown, Darling and SLAB. He wasn’t pleased and got really annoyed with me when I explained that lots of over 55s did loads of canvassing, leafleting, going on social media. Spoke about Wings, Bella, Newsnet, wee Ginger Dug!. I’m beginning to think that the Guy is a SLAB himself and trying to get people back to Labour under false pretences. Some people were agreeing with him! Annoying!

    I want everyone to be aware that the establishment and the intelligence agencies are going to be making a concerted effort to co-opt and undermine the Scottish independence movement/s

    This is why it is critical, and i do mean utterly critical. that any ‘pro scottish independence’ groups or individuals who use speech or actions that are against our inclusive and understanding principles should be officially denounced by all of us. Any sexism, racism, ageism or any other discriminatory language needs to be dealt with by negative feedback from all of us.

    We are at this moment going to be the focus of an intelligence operation that will involve the collection of data on every one of us but particularly the more prominent members. Indeed it was probably already there.
    Further we can possibly expect rallies and demonstrations to be disrupted by agent provocateurs.
    More insidiously we can expect people to be posing as ‘one of us’ but who constantly seek to pervert our message to something more easily attacked by the establishment.

    I repeat – do not stand for aggressive, racist or any other actions or language. Particularly from those who are apparently one of us or who would try to align themselves to .

    This sounds all very tinfoil hat, but i challenge anyone who would accuse me of this to do a little of their own research. A good start is Northern Ireland.

  322. Marian
    Ignored
    says:

    Unionists think they can crap all over Scotland so pro-independent has to fight back by metaphorphosing the YES campaign into a proper full blown scottish democratic alliance to fight to defend Scotland’s interests at every opportunity including in the beasts lair at Westminster by winning every seat in May 2015.

    Pro-independence websites need to rationalise into one or two at the most with print and online and streamed video produced by professional journalists of the very best calibre from the existing online websites plus anyone else e.g Iain MacWhirter, that can be recruited to the cause.

  323. crisiscult
    Ignored
    says:

    1st Channel Russia (very popular though admittedly very pro Putin Channel) reporting Alex Salmond’s comments that the UK Government lied to Scotland about promises made just before the referendum on more powers.

  324. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Here is a wee heads up for you lovers and supporters of that ubber loyal and ubber neutral broadcaster, the BBC. 😛

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1505788359668557&set=a.1390968614483866.1073741830.100007122217063&type=1&theater

  325. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Vote SNP get independence 2015. Are you listening Mr Noon. We have tried the gradualist approach. We need to sell our mandate clearly to the voters.

  326. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    So which one of these did Davidson break?

    The relevant legislation is the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013, Schedule 7.7.d :

    7)Every person attending the proceedings in connection with the issue or the receipt of ballot papers for persons voting by post in the referendum must maintain and aid in maintaining the secrecy of voting in the referendum and must not—

    (a)except for a purpose authorised by law, communicate, before the poll is closed, to any person any information obtained at those proceedings as to the official mark,

    (b)except for a purpose authorised by law, communicate to any person at any time any information obtained at those proceedings as to the unique identifying number on the back of any ballot paper sent to any person,

    (c)except for a purpose authorised by law, attempt to ascertain at the proceedings in connection with the receipt of ballot papers the unique identifying number on the back of any ballot paper, or

    (d)attempt to ascertain at the proceedings in connection with the receipt of the ballot papers the outcome for which any vote is given in any particular ballot paper or communicate any information with respect thereto obtained at those proceedings.

  327. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    @Gallowglass:

    Then this system is rotten. In France, you can’t cast an absentee ballot. Instead you give a ‘procuration’ to someone, which means you entitle him/her to vote on your behalf (so, (s)he votes twice, once in his/her name, one in yours). This way, there is no possibility of opening the ballot in advance. The only risk is that the person you trust votes for somebody else, but that something you can settle with a good rifle, if need be.

    @Famous15:

    This is so obvious I wonder how this issue was not raised up before.

  328. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    WOW!
    New SNP members now over 18,000.

    Anyone got figures for the Greens and the rest of the pro-Indie heros?

  329. Blair paterson
    Ignored
    says:

    I Heard a.darling on the television crowing that A.S. Had lost the referendum and lost his job astoowell darling he never lost his honesty or his integrity neither did he resort to telling lies unlike you who never had these things to loss you even called yourselfe Scottish when you and the dogs in street know you are English and London born so no I will accept no crowing from the likes of you , you and your kind days are about to end Thank God ., did you notice there was no mention of closing the tax loopholes all they have to do is say ther are NO loopholes any more none what so ever every one wil pay their fair share end of ,but no the peoples party talked about family allowance freeze also about doing away with marriage allowance And raising the minimum wage by2020 aye the peoples party ? It would make you puke

  330. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    I owe everyone here an apology for my hasty, defeatist post a couple of days ago. I have had a chance to think about things and realise now is the time to redouble our efforts not to throw the towel in.

    I joined the SNP yesterday which is huge for me as I never thought I would join any political party. I also believe it is time to get organised and work to a common and realistic plan.

    I don’t believe talking about vote rigging will benefit us instead I believe we need to focus on the removal of the Labour party in Scotland. We have a UK General election in 6 months so we can make huge inroads to the first point above if we are organised.

    The idea of a night out was mentioned but I think we need to meet and form a plan. Anyone up for it?

    Again apologies for temporary loss of faith. It will not happen again.

    P.S. Just read a brilliant tweet which involved a new chant for Margaret Curran. It will be familiar to most on here as it goes “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, Out, Out,Out!”

  331. Albalha
    Ignored
    says:

    Bored with the rigged nonsense and my 82 year old mum voted Yes. Let’s keep it real for goodness sake. Look to who is winning here, I understand the SNP have circa 16000 new members,

    Are they the real losers? At least look at the reality.

  332. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    @Marco McGinty:

    ECOSSE is certainly a proposal I will endorse! 😉

  333. cynical lowlander
    Ignored
    says:

    Any opening or sampling of postal votes was illegal under the terms of secrecy that referendum agents signed before they entered the postal vote opening and counting.
    The relevant section of the Scottish Referendum Act 2013 is paragraph 7.7 Every person attending the proceedings …..must not (d) Attempt to ascertain at the proceedings in connection with the receipt of the ballot papers the outcome for which any vote is given in any particular ballot paper or communicate any information with respect thereto obtained at those proceedings”

  334. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Albalha
    this is not about the flavour of an ice cream.

  335. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    Ann,

    The first part of the count is exactly that.

    The box is emptied and the ballot slips counted. Only after it is confirmed that the number from the counting floor matches the number on the list are the ballots seperated into Yes and No.

  336. cynical lowlander
    Ignored
    says:

    @ heedtracker.
    My apologies, our posts must have crossed.
    Davidson probably didn’t break any laws, but the person or persons who got the information and passed it to her did.
    Para 7 (d)

  337. Albalha
    Ignored
    says:

    @fred blogger

    Wtf?

  338. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @David Stevenson
    Yes I was accredited to attend postal vote openings which started on Wednesday 10th. It took 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17, 18 and till 0330 on the 19th to open, verify, match and tally 52000 returned postal packs.
    During this process when ballot papers are being removed from the envelope A in which voters are asked to return them there is a slight chance of how a ballot has been cast being visible to the accute observer. This can be remedied by asking those in charge of the process to remind the people doing the opening to keep the ballot papers face down.
    Observers are required to sign that they will keep secret any such observations untill 2200 on the 18th. This is what party politicians call postal vote sampling.
    I have no idea what the proportions were in the postal votes. You’ld need a Fife Counting Agent to tell you that.

    Sorry to have taken so long to reply, I was visited by one of the younger generation making sure I hadn’t slit my wrists in despair 🙂

  339. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    @AuldA

    Well it’s an anomaly that occurs with having a register, but then equally I don’t see what the issue is in terms of the outcome we’ve just had.

    Obviously it’s a bit odd having a person cast a vote, then die, and the vote to be counted but then you can’t update the register on a constant basis. It is possible other people then moved away, or were convicted and sent to jail etc..

    Personally I don’t like postal voting, I wouldn’t do it myself because who would actually trust the RM, but I can see how some people benefit from it personally or even require it so I can’t really say much more but I would like to see it gone as it always seems to be a bone of contention, even when Labour is about.

  340. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    cynicalHighlander
    she’s off her rocker.

  341. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    cynicalHighlander

    Wonder how many spin doctors and tax dollars it took to make that up.

  342. AuldA
    Ignored
    says:

    @Gallowglass:

    I concur there is no perfect system when it comes to absentee ballot. Neither our delegation system can account of dead or convicted people. But at least there is no possible early opening of the votes, and, also, it avoids the late discovery of lost enveloppes somewhere in a closet two or three weeks after the election…

  343. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Erm that would be the world in the ALTERNATE universe in which she resides then would it CH? 😛

    Alternatively she has been attending far too many of good old Gordie Brown’s speeches about saving the world! 😀

  344. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @cynical lowlander –

    If she received such information, she must’ve known it was obtained illegally – she didn’t report it, therefore she’s complicit.

    I don’t understand why people aren’t kicking up fuck about this – can you imagine the furore if Nicola Sturgeon had made similar comments?

  345. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @fred blogger
    Lesley-Anne
    mine wasn’t blank on the back.
    they were also sent to be scanned south of the boarder.
    never will i use a postal vote again.

    Any proof that they were sent? If so, which Council?

  346. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    @ cynical lowlander, Its really this one

    (d)attempt to ascertain at the proceedings in connection with the receipt of the ballot papers the outcome for which any vote is given in any particular ballot paper or communicate any information with respect thereto obtained at those proceedings.

    Davidson states clearly that she or they have been able to ascertain the result…the outcome from which any particular ballot paper and so on

    So even if the law says she can do what she did after 10pm last Thursday, she was still involved in breaking the rules by using the outcome forecasted by whoever it was that was actually there at the sampling. Who knows, maybe Davidson was also at “sampling” openings.

    Police matter? Definitely.

    Bookmakers were still taking bets right up til the formal announcement.

  347. Calgacus
    Ignored
    says:

    Andy and Edward, you both seem very CONCERNED about our allegations of vote rigging. Tens of thousands of us have signed petitions because we know that we have been robbed of our victory by MI5 and GCHQ.

    Why did our postal votes leave Scottish jurisdiction and remain in London for TWO weeks?

  348. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    A friend of mine just called by – handed me a WBB, said it had convinced them and thought I might like it as a souvenir. “No”, I said, “give it to a no voter to read”. Lets get them back in circulation.

  349. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @cynical Highlander –

    re:

    Please sit down before clicking as the floor could up and hit you.

    That is sheer class. She must’ve managed to sneak a couple of bottles of Buckie onto the big red Naw bus.

  350. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Cynical
    FMQ must restart sometime soon. I don’t fancy her chances! 😀

  351. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Okay, so she’s going to ‘change the world’ but she can’t even look after her own fucking teeth?

  352. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Calgacus
    Any proof that some or all postal votes were transferred to London and remained there for two weeks? From which Councils?

  353. Devereux
    Ignored
    says:

    @The Rough Bounds says: ‘forget all this posturing.’ Re name change.
    A wee bit unfair? I was in a No bubble during the referendum which was particularly tough and I can promise you that there is an irrational fear of the words Nationalism and Nationalists. We might intellectually recognise their innate British Nationalism, they don’t. It is a problem and will remain an Achilles heel. The demonisation of Salmond was impossible to counter in the end and this is the same. It will endure and I just think we have to find ways of getting a bit clever about it. We can agree to disagree however. :):)

  354. ChrisB
    Ignored
    says:

    Just been asked to pass this suggestion on:
    maybe everyone should start referring to the BLP (British Labour Party) to point up their close friendship with the BNP and the like?

  355. Croompenstein
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian – Okay, so she’s going to ‘change the world’ but she can’t even look after her own fucking teeth?

    LOL like a raw of fucking sugar puffs 🙂

  356. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    @Devereux

    I agree on that point, deliberate or otherwise, I’ve debate intelligent Britnats who seemed flummoxed at the suggestion they were a nationalist. Because to them, the status quo is ‘normal’.

    I still don’t think the word nationalist in the SNP gave much of anything to anyone, sure it was played on but given the demographics it looks like the issue was lost more on pension and perhaps even national identity there with the WWII generation.

    Again, it’s not so much the names they can call us by how they do it.

    Media.

  357. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    Alex Salmond criticises BBC.

    http://tinyurl.com/oewlrlf

    Good on ya Alex.

  358. Jim Fraser
    Ignored
    says:

    I was bitterly disappointed by the referendum result but am proud of the 1.6 million that all voted YES. It is heartening that the spirit of independence is still alive and kicking and that this can be demonstrated by the massive rise in membership of the pro-independence parties.
    Scotland will be an independent nation again.

  359. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Kenny

    “Why do you think Deutsche Bank was so much against Scottish independence? DB has $70 trillion in derivatives. That is twenty times the annual GDP of Germany!

    I think that is the gross figure and it is something nearer the World GDP!

    However as there are creditors to the merry go round as well their net worth should be a bit less than that, say on one or twice the German GDP!!

    So they think anyway.

  360. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi B(tP)
    They were talking above about ditching talking about SLab and giving them their proper name BLP to rhyme with BNP.

    What do you think of the association BLP, BNP, BTP?

  361. alistair
    Ignored
    says:

    I think I’ll try the line of asserting that the politically motivated folk are British Nationalists and seeing the response it elicits. That along with constant referral to the British Labour Party might make them start to think through the consequences

  362. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    I was a count agent for Wings in Moray. We assisted the official YES representatives by carrying out sampling of the votes as the verification was being done. A guy with a laptop was sending this info back to YES HQ.

    It must have been pretty obvious quite early that the postal votes had gone against us, but at this time the polls were closed.

    Ruth Davidson had NO RIGHT to know what the postal ballots were before the polling stations closed. If, as she stated on the BBC that sampling was carried out at the opening of the ballots a week earlier this is illegal and is electoral fraud and she is a co conspirator.

  363. Calgacus
    Ignored
    says:

    Our postal votes had a wee holiday in the great wen(London). Our opponents saw the postal votes 2 weeks before the election. What they saw shocked them.We were ahead! That is why they shat themselves. They then rigged the postal vote by discarding Yes votes. That is why they were so smug on election night.

    We have been robbed of our Independence by Westminster dirty tricks and I am very very angry.

  364. David
    Ignored
    says:

    handclapping says:
    22 September, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    @David Stevenson
    Yes I was accredited to attend postal vote openings which started on Wednesday 10th. It took 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17, 18 and till 0330 on the 19th to open, verify, match and tally 52000 returned postal packs.
    During this process when ballot papers are being removed from the envelope A in which voters are asked to return them there is a slight chance of how a ballot has been cast being visible to the accute observer. This can be remedied by asking those in charge of the process to remind the people doing the opening to keep the ballot papers face down.
    Observers are required to sign that they will keep secret any such observations untill 2200 on the 18th. This is what party politicians call postal vote sampling.
    I have no idea what the proportions were in the postal votes. You’ld need a Fife Counting Agent to tell you that.

    Sorry to have taken so long to reply, I was visited by one of the younger generation making sure I hadn’t slit my wrists in despair 🙂

    ***********************************************************

    Well I was the North Lanarkshire Council WoS PV monitor and we me and my buddy saw the Labour party ‘person’ marking up the votes on an A4 sheet of paper using five bar gates a colum of yes on one side no on the other…..I complained to the deputy counting officer who was supervising the PV opening that she was vote counting and he went and had a word with her. We raised an official complaint in writing with NLC and we had a meeting the next day where we were told appropriate action had been taken…we WoS reps were unhappy and got even more unhappy when we were told it was OUR JOB to call the police and report this since we had seen the law being broken. Things got even worse the next day when the Deputy counting officer admitted to me that the labour party rep had admitted to counting the votes and that he reminded her of her obligations….that was IT!!! She was out in the corridor on her mobile phone frequently……no reasonable person could assume she was vote counting for her own personal interest. After me making a real nuisance of myself and being a PITA with her replacement to upset and spoil her counting the votes mentally…..they never came back.

    With the layout in NLC it was easy to count votes of at least the two nearest PV openers to where you were standing….I got fed up one day and complained about me being able to see very vote opened by one particular person and they had some words with them….the whole system and the set up is CRAP!!! Unfit for purpose. I was there every day including the 18th to see the final batch of PV’s arrive and be opened.

  365. James Caithness
    Ignored
    says:

    Valerie says:
    22 September, 2014 at 7:14 pm
    I’m writing to Anne Begg as well, I despise the fash, in all their guises. I don’t give a rat’s anus what she said on her Twitter

    Bob Sinclair says:
    22 September, 2014 at 7:14 pm
    I think wee Ruthie might just be getting a wee visit from Police Scotland with regard to this.
    ======================

    Valerie – what is Begg’s twitter name?

    Bob Sinclair – I would love that but I would be very surprised if the Polis will do anything.
    If opening postal ballots and sampling them and giving that info out is an offence there is plenty evidence from Davidson’s mouth herself. Why isn’t the polis already at her.
    Lastly if they have opened the votes then they surely tampered with them, removed YES votes, Did NO votes on the spot and added them to the ballot.

    At 10.30pm on the 18th I said to my wife these unionist politicians are far too smug. They knew.

  366. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jim McIntosh –

    ‘We assisted the official YES representatives by carrying out sampling of the votes as the verification was being done. A guy with a laptop was sending this info back to YES HQ.’

    Jim, please expand upon this. It’s the crux of the Davidson stushie – what did you assist with? Did you have sight of the actual votes? What info was being sent back to YESHQ? Was this prior to the close of polling stations last Thursday?

    We need more detail here – please forgive me for nit-picking, but we have to nail this, and do it soon.

  367. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    Handclapping

    I am foing to have to come out of my closet soon.

    Most of you know who I really am and I quite like my chosen nom de guerre anyway.

  368. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    handclapping

    BLP, BNP, BTP, FTP, FKB, Kgb

    I am tired and need to go to bed.

  369. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Just in case anyone is wondering about wee Ruthie and her followers. This may sharpen the nerves of a few of them. If rumours about NAW supporters talking about postal votes BEFORE Thursday then they may be on the list for a wee early morning wake up call from some of Scotland’s finest. 😛

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11621053

  370. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Exploratory meeting in Kirrie tonight. Sign up in shop for one day. Expected usual dozen or so suspects, it was stowed out standing room only lots of new faces. Game on.

  371. alistair
    Ignored
    says:

    Does anyone know if there is a breakdown within each council of the Yes/No vote. I saw a post from a guy in Skye earlier who seemed to have all the Yes vote per village in Skye. Can you browse that somewhere. I’ve not been in the mood until now to have a nose through the data. Thanks if anyone can help.

  372. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry James Cathness, I have the meme, and not on Twitter, so don’t have Begg’s address.

  373. Joe
    Ignored
    says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11621053

    Someone caught fiddling votes by post, in Bristol no different to what ruth d seems to have done

  374. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruth Davidson – States that sampling had been carried out over the previous weeks. I thought the sampling was to be carried out on the night only. In fact the following is an extract from an email received from the Counting Officer for Moray:

    18 Sep 2014 14:07,
    Dear Referendum Agents,

    Earlier today I received a communication indicating that the Electoral Commission wish to revise the advice, provided to my predecessor in 2001, in relation to sampling during the count.

    Therefore, sampling will be permitted at the count later today.

    Counting Officer

    So the EC were changing the rules up to the last minute. Is that because they were made aware that sampling had already been carried out when the postal votes were opened.

  375. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    James123 says:

    Alex Salmond criticises BBC.

    http://tinyurl.com/oewlrlf

    Good on ya Alex.

    Didn’t he just James. I can hardly wait till he becomes a back bencher. If I understood him correctly through his ever so subtle hints during his speech at the Deer Hall then BP, BBC and others had better practice girding their loins NOW! 😛

  376. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Twitter address for Dame Anne Begg is:

    @annebegg

  377. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    Can anyone tell me if the American writer actually came over for the vote. I think his name was Michael Macleod?
    Was there not a fundraiser for his travel etc.

  378. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    That sounds like bad organisation by NLC. You need at least 300 samples of a population to get a reliable poll. It sounds as if it was only on the first days that the Nos could have got a decent sample out of the c.10000 being processed each day and who is to say that every day’s batch was the same. Add to that the tendency to “optimise” some of the glimpses that you see and a “correct” estimate of how the postal votes are going is unlikely.

    There is also the possibility, to be most generous, that politicians lie to discomfit their opponents, as when the result goes against them they can always claim that the postal sample must have been unrepresentative. However a public warning about wasting police time would not come amiss.

  379. creag an tuirc
    Ignored
    says:

    The thing that strikes me with the postal vote was they came after the 2nd debate, where AD admitted we could use the £ and AS won comprehesivly. This resulted in 70% NO 30% YES yet the physical vote had the lovebomb, bank disaster, business disaster, food price hike and the vow. yet the average was no where near 70% postal NO on the night. I do not belive the actions of the UK after the published poll lead was the only thing that motivated them. if the postal vote was yes (60/40), surely that would account for their actions and win at all costs

  380. The Rough Bounds
    Ignored
    says:

    The only people I have ever met in the 52 years since I first joined the Scottish National Party have been those enemies of Scotland who would find any title we chose to use instead of SNP as a fair target for abuse.

    I’m very proud to be a member of the National Party of Scotland. It has the word National in its title because it is about the Nation.

    And it appears that the 20,000 new members that have joined the SNP over the last 100 hours have no objection to the title either. That works out at 200 hundred new members every hour.

    Don’t listen to those trying to get us to change our Party’s name. A lot of them are the enemy just trying it on. Same with those that tried to get us to drop our immediately recognisable colours of black and yellow for the insipid weak lavender that my dictionary describes as ‘a pale lilac’.

    There are mischief makers everywhere. Ignore them and stick with the Scottish National Party. It has served us well for 80 years. Have faith. Be proud.

  381. Midgehunter
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Alistair-

    “I think I’ll try the line of asserting that the politically motivated folk are British Nationalists and seeing the response it elicits. That along with constant referral to the British Labour Party might make them start to think through the consequences”

    Sounds OK with me. After all we’re talking here about former Scots, folk who voted for “Britain” so they have to be British Nationalists.

    What about instead of SNP – SDU Scottish Democratic Union?
    That should give them a taste of the sh*tz.. 😉 Joking..

  382. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    I’d like to see an analysis of the Ashcroft post-ref poll of 2047 people, with a NO part of presumably 1126 people, for a less than 3% MOE sample. Conspiracy theories apart, the polls have shown themselves very accurate. Most important reason for NO:

    47% – The risks of becoming independent looked too great when it came to things like the currency, EU membership, the economy, jobs and prices
    27% – A strong attachment to the UK and its shared history, culture and traditions
    25% – A NO vote would still mean extra powers for the Scottish parliament together with the security of remaining part of the UK, giving the best of both worlds.

    That’s 14% of the overall population who voted NO for Devo-Max. Enough for Indy (59% YES, 41% NO), but not for Devo-Max. Breaking down the 45% YES to perhaps 10% Devo-Max against 35% Indy, that would be 24% Devo-Max, so less support than before the referendum. But also much less support for the status quo at 15% of the overall population compared with about 30% to start with.

    These are the builiding blocks, and all decision making should be based on these, or perhaps a more thorough Survey Rev ..

  383. Michael McCabe
    Ignored
    says:

    Here is an idea. why don’t we get some of our folk Embedded into the enemies parties. that way in the future if there is any official skulduggery. we have someone on the inside who can Blow the Whistle. And with Evidence to Boot. Just a thought.

  384. Hood
    Ignored
    says:

    Nana Smith,
    yes he was here, you can find his reports here
    http://nrtalkradio.libsyn.com/nrrpods?search=Will+McLeod&Submit=Search

  385. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Calgacus (and others previously) –

    No offence, but can someone PLEASE provide evidence that postal votes were sent to London?

    Where did this story come from?

    There are legitimate questions to be asked about the whole process, but this one seems particularly suspect – we’re dealing with a shallow well as it is, and it won’t tolerate much poison.

    Many of us have been regulars on WOS for a long time. If we’ve learned nothing else, it’s that we require hard, verifiable, clearly-sourced facts before pointing fingers and/or crying wolf.

    (Calgacus – no dig at you pal. It maybe looks like I’m shooting the messenger a bit, but I’m sure you understand what I’m driving at.)

  386. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    As I have said on other sites, 3-4 weeks back I was off-line for 4 days, getting news only from the MSM – you would have to be totally committed to Yes to withstand the propaganda, many weren’t. Now stop blaming the duped.

  387. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Ian – The boxes were only opened after 10pm. The counting officers started counting the postal votes first, before the boxes from the parishes arrived.

    The first thing that was done was verification, each box was opened and the ballots dumped on the table. The counting officers then put them in piles of 100 and put an elastic band round them. They were placed face up, so we could see, if you were paying attention, how many YES/NO (approximately) in each bundle. This info was passed to the head YES guy at the count. I’m not sure what he did with the data but he was putting it onto a laptop.

    Hope that answers your question(s).

  388. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Jim McIntosh
    if i knew that my PV could be used as sampling demographic, i would have not voted by post, i’m certain many PV’s would feel the same.
    i cannot understand how PV sampling prior to voting day is even legal.

  389. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Hood

    Thank you!

  390. Quentin Quale
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry for being a bit dim here, but apart from the obvious illness, holiday, working away, what’s the attraction of a postal vote? Proudest moment of my political life was striding into the polling station and putting my X in the Yes box.

  391. Nana Smith
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I saw a tweet from a SNP mp or msp [can’t remember which one] querying the PV’s being sent to London.

    Perhaps Lesley Anne can recall.

  392. ann
    Ignored
    says:

    Cearc, Thanks for that.

    Also with regards to back of Ballot Papers.

    Both mine and daughers were blank and neither of the two women checked to see if there was anything on the back or stopped me from putting my paper in the box.

    Is there any significance of whether there was something on the back or not?

  393. davidb
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T Boycotts

    A bit of thoughtful deliberation needs to be applied to the boycotts issue.

    I went shopping tonight – not at Asda – and declined to buy anything with a union flag on it. That meant no cooked meat, eggs, Mr Kipling cakes ( sorry I like some of those ), apples, plums or many cheeses. Even though they had a good price on Caramel wafers I left them on the shelf.

    If we have a huge list to boycott it will be impossible. It could also be borne in mind that many employees of some of these companies will have voted Yes – by sheer virtue of being below retirement age statistically. Scots still need jobs even if they work for bams.

    Oh, and I never bothered making a PPI claim against the Scots bank I have loyally banked with for 35 years, but I’m going to now. If I get any money I have ideas where to invest it.

    I am all for organised boycotting. But some clever guerilla tactics could be an idea too. Say if at Christmas we didn’t buy a particular product for a whole week at one shop, then another product at a different shop. We could have some real fun with this idea.

    We can really enjoy our civil disobedience now the dark nights are coming.

  394. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jim McIntosh –

    Cheers.

    Will digest.

    If that’s the process that Davidson was referring to, fair do’s.

  395. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone who is keeping track of the new members of the SNP, this is for you. 😉

    Peter Murrell In the last 100 hours, @theSNP has grown to become the third largest political party in the UK. An incredible 19,558 new members and rising

  396. Midgehunter
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Bugger t P

    As you reign in the south of France, I think you’re the “Red Baron”

    Family motto: A bottle a day keeps the doctor at bay..

  397. Devereux
    Ignored
    says:

    @The Rough Bounds ‘Don’t listen to those trying to get us to change our Party’s name. A lot of them are the enemy just trying it on..’ I am SNP and have been for 35 years. May only be an occasional poster here and blocked week of referendum but did my bit distrbuting wee blue books ( 2000). I know you are hurting but please don’t be angry – it will drive away new readers and less robust folk., make them feel they are not ‘ in the gang’. We shouldn’t discourage the putting up of new ideas – even if they don’t fly. And finally, we just have to agree to disagree. For me, it is not the name but what the party stands for that makes it special..

  398. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    See the SNP is now officially the third largest political party in the UK. I would not be surprised if the Greens have not overtaken the Liberals in Scotland to be the fourth largest party.

    I would be interested in how Labour is doing. If Mags Curran is reaching out to connect and have another conversation (which the Labour hierarchy always spell t.e.l.l.) then I’m guessing that a number of those 25,000 new members of the Yes parties have come from Labour.

  399. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    @fred blogger

    Thinking about it I suppose we have to assume that the YES had access to the same information as the NO, or they would have been up in arms about this by now.

    If this is the case it becomes even more important that purdah rules are adhered to. Although the NO didn’t make any information about the sampling public they did offer further inducements/bribes for voting NO. So they used the information obtained to gain an advantage.

    The answer is not to allow sampling of postal votes until the count.

  400. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Kaspar says: 22 September, 2014 at 2:30 pm:
    @fred blogger

    “Devon Labour MP says party has to be clear “we are fighting for England”

    Yes, Kasper, I’ve been to that WestCountry paper’s website and told them, (non-abusive), that we Scots independence supporters are going nowhere and that every independence party is gaining thousands of new members. Mainly at the expense of Labour. Let us keep them in abject fear of their expense accounnts and jobs.

  401. Chrissie
    Ignored
    says:

    I have worked as a teller at the voting count, as a polling clerk (scores the names out as the people vote) and as a presiding officer on the poll. This was twenty years ago and, at that time, you either signed the secrets act or swore an oath that you would keep secret anything that you saw. The polls were conducted to a very high standard at that time. I do not know if it is any different now but the polling agents (usually official party representatives) were very clued up and watched the polls diligently. At the count the tellers (counting the votes) were there to sort into the various parties then count into bundles of 50. The tellers were asked to do this as efficiently and as quickly as possible. You really did not have time to read the slips but you had to be able to identify spoilt papers. If the teller on the video that I saw had been moving yes votes into no piles or vice versa she should have been stopped by an official supervisor and asked to leave as she was clearly not up to the job, I can’t think why votes waiting to be sorted and counted should be ‘resting’ on a NO table but there may be a valid reason and could probably be quickly answered. With regard to the polling agent who saw a box emptied which was more or less full of No votes it was his job to report this to either the returning officer or the police. It would be very difficult to prove now. I must say that I cannot even imagine a box full of votes for one side or the other it would be unprececedented.

    As I say my experience was over 20 years ago and thing have probably changed and probably not for the better. The pressure to get the numbers out quickly now and especially on the 18th was immense.

    The Fact that Ruth Davidson was able to see the postal votes and they all seemed to know how things had gone just after the poll closed, I cannot explain.

  402. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    why did no lawnmower manufacturers come out in favour of no thanks?

    my wife just informed me that we are now on the indy diet, no more slobbing around on the sofa watching tv, eating mackies ice cream and tunnocks teacakes while drinking irn bru

    thank fukc durex didnt come out for better together……

    ” you got bugger all else to do, ye might as well cut the grass……”
    🙂

  403. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I don’t think that is what Davidson is referring to. In the BBC link above she states that they have had people at the sampling openings over the past two weeks and is encouraged by that. She is talking about having the postal vote samples before the polls even opened.

  404. Fireproofjim
    Ignored
    says:

    Like everybody here I am bitterly disappointed that we did not hit the magic 50%+1, but looking back six months 45% is a great result, and we should be proud. As a canvasser I found that the lies about pensions and currency were brought up time and again by older people. (of which I am one!).
    Our Yes campaign newspapers did not correct this impression very clearly and were pretty bland and boring. Additionally we should have produced much more “Labour for Independence” leaflets,
    It was a waste of time canvassing and leafletting the leafy suburbs and it would have been better to spend more time in the housing estates where people are suffering and want change.
    I was at polling stations on Thursday and don’t believe there was any serious fraud. It would be near impossible to fiddle 300,000 votes.

  405. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    heedtracker

    unless the observer or the sampler didnt communicate the info until after 10pm?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcL69gUtPb0&feature=player_embedded

  406. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Jim McIntosh
    yes i have already seen that, but it depends on reach and resources to exploit that reach.
    ie access to borders regions, D & G 70/30 no, which is a bigger margin than i expected, i expected 60/40 for no.
    also equal access does not make it right, that is my vote

  407. ChateauLait
    Ignored
    says:

    @AuldA / @Gallowglass :

    Some other points on how voting is run in France – might be an idea to see if we can’t get some of this adopted in Scotland…

    1. Electoral candidates can nominate observers to attend all polling stations. These observers are there by right to keep an eye on the work of polling station officials, rather than merely being allowed periodic access on the sufferance of those officials.

    2. The ballot boxes are made of sturdy clear plastic. No risk of ‘stuffing’ of boxes before-hand.

    3. Ballot boxes do not leave the premises until after the count. They are opened, and the votes counted, at the polling station. (they are transported later for centralized storage)

    4. The count itself is open to public scrutiny. Candidate-affiliated observers track the count in progress, the general public are free to do likewise.

  408. DoziR
    Ignored
    says:

    Cheers for the advice it’s much appreciated and taken on board.

    It’s not just the number of voting slips. Numbers are easily manipulated. 97% of voters registered. That’s questionable. Families were sent voting cards for children. No checks were made at the stations any tom dick or harry could vote. The lower than expected turnout in Glasgow and Dundee. Looks and feels dodgy and I make no apologies for valuing truth over lies and political strategy. “45” being an anagram of “over fifty” is coincidence. Cool though eh!

    I guess when your heart is broken and your nerves are shot it’s harder to be rationale. I hope as many people as possible live to see another referendum I know quite a few won’t and not just older folk. Xx

  409. Lemon
    Ignored
    says:

    On Ruthie sampling Postal Votes, my understanding of the process is that once the postal votes are received by the council they are opened, the signature is verified and then they are put away until the actual counting. The signature verification can be witnessed by a reps of the political parties, it would be possible for these reps to do a tally of what the votes actually are.

  410. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jim McIntosh –

    Aww, man, please, seriously, come on…

    I’ve just necked five cans of cider…

    You telling me it’s all changed again?

    WTF?

    Please, mister, keep it simple, for me…

    Does Ruth Davidson have any reason to be worried about what she said, on-camera, ‘live’, to a global audience of many millions?

    Please (hic) tell me…I’m confused…

  411. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I think it was a query sent TO the SNP MP Angus McNeil you are thinking of Nana. 😉

  412. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Lemon
    the actual vote is sealed separate from the verification.
    Jim McIntosh
    i should add that no one should be exploited.
    there are a lot of retired people in the boarders area, i feel this group has been duped.

  413. davidb
    Ignored
    says:

    Im sorry, I know this is sexist, but could someone photoshop the 3 amigos heads into this picture?

    http://boingboing.net/2014/09/22/woman-has-third-breast-implant.html

  414. Graeme Doig
    Ignored
    says:

    I know there are many capable people who come to Wings but would it be an idea to get in touch with a lawyer from Lawyers for Scotland to look at any evidence there is.

    I want us to be able to move on and until we nail this and put it to bed it will rumble on.

    It’s only been 4 day’s since we lost our country and it has been encouraging to hear everyone’s ideas about moving forward but if there is any case to be made lets do it quickly with facts that can either be taken forward or binned.

  415. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    By the way, you know the fire alarms in Dundee? Just read Clacks and Falkirk had the same – this is easily verified, but what are the odds of that? Even if it is numpties doing it, you would think the areas would have been well enough under scrutiny, altho’ most would be in the main hall. Someone said on the night in Dundee – why don’t they just put a match to them in front of us, instead of this charade. It is very worrying. The 2 hours delay in announcing the Renfrew result because “we are waiting for a TV slot” – that is just BS

  416. Calgacus
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood, I read about the PVs going to London for scanning on this site a few days ago. I have previously requested Stu to investigate this as it seems pretty dodgy to me. Sorry if that doesn’t help much. I want somebody to ask questions about this and that is why I keep raising the matter.

  417. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    ian brotherhood
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcL69gUtPb0 ruth.

  418. Scot Finlayson
    Ignored
    says:

    Hundreds of posts on Wings before the Referendum about peoples fears of vote rigging especially the Postal vote.

    Could someone tell me what was done by the Yes side to minimise the chances of the Postal votes being compromised.

    Surely they did not just cross their fingers and trust in the impartiality of the Electoral Commision.

  419. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    @Paula Rose
    Wonderful! Back in the saddle. The best time to convince the NOes is now, while it’s all fresh in their mind and they remember why they voted NO. I hate to say it after all the hard work, but perhaps now is the time for the whole YES campaign to redouble its efforts and get out there! We could have support for Indy at near 60% before the middle of October, with provisional support from all thoe who believed the big Devo-Max con.

    And asking all those 47% of NOes who had doubts to think about it and look things up or something. 70% pro-Indy before the end of the year …

  420. Calgacus
    Ignored
    says:

    If it turns out that our referendum has been interfered with we are legally entitled to declare independence.

  421. Bob Sinclair
    Ignored
    says:

    The Ruth Davidson incident is in the hands of Police Scotland.

  422. Snode1965
    Ignored
    says:

    Channel4 news tonight, top story: Tesco suspends it’s 4 top men, fiddling books to make profit losses look better than actual figures. Reported to stock exchange , price dropping, investors demanding explanation. No one left running ship, impending disaster, Tesco fucked…..karma.

  423. Colin Mccartney
    Ignored
    says:

    Why in God’s name do we not have electronic voting? We can wave cards at things, move money by phone, have biometric passports and all the rest, but we make a mark with a wax crayon on a bit of paper handed to us by someone we don’t know – or trust now.

  424. Stevie boy
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding all the people that used a postal vote..

    I myself used a postal vote for the past 5 years or so as I worked in Derbyshire on and off.

    For this referendum I cancelled my postal vote as I just didn’t trust what would happen to it after I posted it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I still believe the vote was dodgy in every aspect and I am aware that people rely on a postal vote for various different reasons.

    Maybe in future we should all be more aware of the problems with them and not use postal votes unless a last resort?!?!

  425. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    wrt ballot fraud
    i was involve in the referendum ensuring that every ballot box in my area, at 10pm, once the boxes were closed and secured, i fixed a separate numbered yes security tag on every box in the ward before it was driven away to glenrothes, the driver of the van in my area i know was yes

    wrt postal ballot fraud, labour in glenrothes have previous, i think the judge at the enquiry said the postal vote system was unworthy of “a banana republic” but the count stood

    the fraud conspiracies might make good chat on some doorstep canvassing in the GE, but nothing more

    (hey, we were too squeeky clean in this referendum,time to get dirty and even)

    we are taking on ming campbell and his successor in the GE in 6 months time, planning starts now, i suggest you look at which constituency you are in and do the same

  426. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    @Snode1965

    Tesco categorically denied claims independence would see a rise in prices, what have got against them?

  427. DoziR
    Ignored
    says:

    Cag-does-thinking:
    Thanks your post helped my understand things more it’s a steep learning curve for un-politicized new comers to this. Cheers Xx

  428. John in Fife
    Ignored
    says:

    Just tried to join the SNP and the site still seems to be having problems. While I was doing that I noticed an article by the Guardian saying that the SNP was on course to become the third biggest party in the UK. What is it with these rags that they think they can suddenly become even handed after spewing out non stop Unionist propaganda for the last year. Even the EBC is trying to do it.

  429. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    Saw this on Facebook. Can anyone confirm that a referendum would be required if Scotland voted YES to E.U membership and England voted NO in 2017?

    Was speaking to a no voting friend today, hes a older than me and probably wiser but he has said dont worry about it in 2017 on the EU if England vote to come out the EU and Scotland votes to stay in we legally have to get another independence referendum can anybody back that up ?

  430. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    snp 50000 mems and soaring.

  431. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    @ian brotherhood

    Not trying to confuse you ???? I was just addressing your answer about what she was talking about on the video clip. She was not talking about samples done after the polls had closed. She was talking about samples done when the postal votes were first opened at the council offices.

    As I stated in another post, We have to assume the YES campaign had the same access, so the only issue is when purdah should be enforced. Surely before the postal votes are sampled.

    The video linked to above was after the polls closed, so I guess the did nothing legally wrong.

  432. one less day
    Ignored
    says:

    Just listened to how others see us Excellent summary of the goings on of the media BBC in particular, the lies we were told ect

    I think it was the American chap who was crowdfunded to come and report. He is very perceptive sees the Libdems as dead in the water and the Labour in on slippery slope

    http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/3075491

  433. Bob Sinclair
    Ignored
    says:

    Scot Finlayson
    I’m guessing you weren’t about when Wings Referendum agents were looking for assistance to cover various aspects of the voting process in order to assuage any concerns over any odd behaviour. I say that only because as well as there being hundreds of comments re concerns there were also a lot of comments requesting Postal, Polling and Count Agent assistance.
    Suffice to say ‘a little’ more help would have been welcome.

    I was one of those Referendum Agents and having met some of the others I trust and respect their judgement and integrity. I can assure you that WoS agents held up their end of the bargain.

  434. cynicalHighlander
    Ignored
    says:

    @Colin Mccartney says:

    Why in God’s name do we not have electronic voting?

    Who writes the code some private company paid for by government, thanks but no thanks.

  435. Stevie boy
    Ignored
    says:

    Valerie

    Regarding Renfrewshire council waiting 2 hours for a time slot.. I agree total garbage!!

    When watching the results coming in some declarations were being cut short because another area had started to declare during it.

    Total shambles!! Sorry but I just can’t let all this lie, so angry at it all.. it clearly stinks to the high heavens!

    To quote someone the other day.. ‘This whole thing stinks so badly of fish.. sharks from Australia are on their way over!’

  436. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    The scottish contingent of the BLP were onstage dancing to Sham 69!

  437. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    Midgehunter

    SWFrance. Gascony.

    The wine here is shite but the Armagnac is better.

  438. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    All the votes are sampled at the count.

    This is at the first stage when the boxes arrive and are tipped out and simply counted to tally the number of slips with the number who are marked as having voted at that box.

    The count agents simple mark down a tally of the yes/no that they happen see. It is not every slip and you would not be able to note the elector no.

    The postals should not be seen or counted before arriving at the count.

  439. Wee Alex
    Ignored
    says:

    Can we please stop going on about election fraud. We lost by 400,000 votes. How on earth can you fiddle votes from 32 constituencies. That’s around 12,000 votes at every count.

    I’m prepared to accept that a few votes were misplaced but I don’t believe for a minute that 12,000 votes can be pochled.

    Move on, let’s prepare for the next battle to get rid of the red Tories.

  440. Chris Primrose
    Ignored
    says:

    Folks

    I just want to say, “THANKS!!!”
    On Friday, I felt like a close relative had died. MY kids refused to open the curtains because they didn’t want to see our Scotland.
    Then I saw the misreporting of the fascist attacks on ‘Yes’ supporters.
    Then, in the small hours, I discovered that the Rev had come back.
    One Senior Citizen (I forget his name and even the website – Sorry!) Stated he would continue to wear his ‘Yes’ badge with pride.
    I got out of bed and put the stickers back on the car and the badges back on my jackets.
    People of Scotland, Thank you!

  441. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jim McIntosh –

    Hey, man, no worries!

    Sorry if I inadvertently crossed swords with ye, but we’re on the same side.

    Why?

    Because Ms Davidson now has to answer some stiff questions.

  442. ann
    Ignored
    says:

    I signed up with the SNP yesterday.

    It is something I though that I would never do.

    Even though an SNP voter, Greens the second vote for Holyrood, I have never had an interest or inclination to become a member of a political party, but after all that happened in our referendum which turned into a Labour Party campaign in the end, my anger, disappointment and disgust at the whole BetterTogether / Main Steam Media bias towards something that to me should have been special and something that Scotland should be proud of, got tranished, I felt that I had to take the leap and join up.

    Choosing the SNP is very alien to a miner’s daughter, but this is for the youngsters that are here now and that were let down badly by their peers and the generations yet to come and we must get it right. I don’t want to be responsible for any more of their tears.

    It is great to see that other like minded parties like the Greens, Socialists, SSP etc. are also benefitting from the collapsing “Vow” made by Clegg, Cameron and Milliband.

    Once again Scotlands Future is in Scotlands hands and hopefully the YesGeneration will NOT LET her down.

  443. Kaspar
    Ignored
    says:

    If the SNP is on course to become the third largest party by membership in the U.K. what effect would this have on their rights to party political broadcasts over the whole of the U.K.I have a suspicion that it would be none due to the collusion of the other parties.
    It can at least mean that the Libdems and Farage are on, to use an English term, a sticky wicket when it comes to claiming their “rights” over and above the SNP

  444. Paula
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone else having problems with the SNP and the Women for Independence websites? They have been very slow and refusing to load.

  445. Colin Mccartney
    Ignored
    says:

    @ cynicalHighlander – “Who writes the code some private company paid for by government, thanks but no thanks.”

    No – I do, if you pay me enough 🙂

    You really are living up to your name – good one

  446. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    it was said that yes scotland lost control of this campaign months back, this was its strength, not its weakness
    im not sure that waiting for an announcement from the snp, greens or ssp to come from on high telling us what to do is what is needed

    it might also be counter productive, it might be better for the indy parties to continue as nomal, to declare a new combined party or an inter party agreement might also precipitate the condemlab to unite as well, in north east fife we would have no chance

    we should change the focus of the various groups to the ge in 6 months and let the groups choose

    we are capable of tactical voting are we now capable of tactical activisim?

    we should allow the individual yes groups to rename and campaign in the ge as they wish.

    bear in mind, if we can get 40% of the 45% who turned out for yes on thursday to elect indy candidates in may, all 59 mps will be indy, then the condemlab parties here in scotland will fold anyway and a new unionist party will be formed, no point in us precipitating it

    the focus for everyone must now be on the goal of getting every mp in scotland on may 2015 elected as indy

    i hope they do break their vow, this will give me the ammunition i need to convince even no supporters to vote for the indy candidate

    unfortune atly, while the front page of the record with the vow on it is still available, all reference by brown and every other piece of media concerning the actual timetable has been pulled from the internet, i had a great idea for a leaflet called referendum bullshit bingo with boxes to be tick every time they breached a vow, i believe the timetable has already been broken
    it is the broken vow which is our ammunition and should be the center of our campaign, even if they dont break the time tabble, the powers on offer will be useless anyway. they have already given us enough ammo to centre the campaign on this issue,

  447. Westie7
    Ignored
    says:

    Can someone help me with bit of info?
    Whilst there will now no doubt be all this talk of more powers, What are the powers that are quietly planned to be removed from Holyrood under the Scotland act? Am I right that planning is one?
    Cheers

  448. kalmar
    Ignored
    says:

    I tried to join the SNP several times yesterday and the site was just locked solid. Found myself awake at 4 this morning and gave it another try. Bingo!

    Read on twitter that if we can get >25 SNP MPs into Westminster, independence can just happen as if by magic. Sounds too good to be true, but what do I know. Certainly not going to vote for the Big 3 ever again, that’s for damn sure.

    Frankly I think we should keep this all under our hat and not complain when the press ignore it – otherwise all the fossils who crawled out from under their rocks to vote against the future will be getting agitated and signing up to the Labour party or something.

  449. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone here able to reason why the No percentages were so high in the Orkney Islands (67.1) and the Shetland Islands (63.6)?

    Maybe HandAndShrimp who knows about Orkney? Anyone here from Shetland?

  450. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Wee Alex thow prosteth too much. Postal votes 800,000. They only needed small scale interference in the live vote. It was possibly a panic contingency as the polls were tight.Also it just doesn’t add up. No one actually believes for a second that no had a 10% lead. We might never prove it but everything just feels wrong in this vote. I just can’t fathom why all the pollsters who couldn’t agree on the colour of sh#te suddenly all came up with the same percentages. Why no exit poll?

  451. alistair
    Ignored
    says:

    @schrodingers cat
    I was kind of worrying also that what if the Tories tactically vote for Labour at next GE. Would they really do that ? If they don’t you could see a proIndy (but not solely SNP) grouping wiping the floor. I think a lot of folk here are getting a bit excited about rise in SNP numbers (but that’s ok :). The other 60% of the labour vote is pretty tribal and will not vote SNP in any situation – Solidarity and all that. So we need to be a lot smarter about how we get another 10% of the No’s onboard.

  452. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    @ schrodingers cat, great to see you got your mojo back buddie.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA_CLal14u4&feature=youtu.be

  453. Jock Doc
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks Wee Alex I agree but no one has actually focused on the 400,000 as in it was only 2 mill verses 1.6 not a whitewash by any means. The stats on the TV look better than they actually are. Also after Browns speech on Sat morning, how anyone can believe this guy is beyond my comprehension. Look at the banking crisis and robbing the pensions schemes. Sorry but I’ve lost the will to trust Labour (after being a Labour supporter for over 25 years). We have Jackie Bailey and John McFall in our constituency what a bunch of warmers, Jackie even had a column on the local rag as to why we should vote no. Needless to say the voters didn’t agree. That’s the problem Labour MPs in Scotland cow tow to Westminister..

  454. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal because they were rigged!

  455. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    Twenty thousand new members of the SNP! I am sure there are thousands more, like me, waiting for the site to get back to normal so we can actually join!

  456. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @James Caithness says: 22 September, 2014 at 2:57 pm:
    “I was told that I need to see a branch manager to open an account.”

    Hi James, It is a long time since I did the research but I seem to remember that you could open an account on-line at their website. I did research several banks and financial institutions at the time so may be wrong.

    I just checked their site and yes there is an on-line application page for each type of account.

  457. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    @Paula
    Anyone else having problems with the SNP and the Women for Independence websites? They have been very slow and refusing to load.

    I know it’s great that they’re having such high demand at the moment but they really should be on top of this by now.

  458. Kaspar
    Ignored
    says:

    The rising numbers of SNP members is also likely to cause a problem for the BBC due to their supposed commitment to impartiality.How will they maintain their “impartiality” if the third largest political party in the whole of the U.K. by membership is the SNP.

  459. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    I was kind of worrying also that what if the Tories tactically vote for Labour at next GE.

    At the next GE, the Scottish Tories will be voting tactically to ensure that Labour win as few seats as possible. That is all that will concern them.

  460. Tamson
    Ignored
    says:

    @kalmar:

    Read on twitter that if we can get >25 SNP MPs into Westminster, independence can just happen as if by magic.

    There are 59 Scottish MPs, so there is a case for saying that if the SNP/Greens/SSP won just over half – 30 seats – independence could be declared. IIRC a Tory Scottish Secretary thought this would be the case (way back when there was no chance at all of this scenario happening, of course).

    Of course, due to the undemocratic nature of first-past-the-post voting, you can win half the Scottish constituencies on about a third of the vote. It wouldn’t be a viable platform to declare independence from.

  461. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    to Scot Finlayson

    i just did

    i also pointed out that the most likely area of fraud was in the postal ballot, something i think probably happened but was powerless to do anything about

    the biggest fraud was the targeting of the media at the over 65’s 71% who said no, about pensions etc

    be angry at that, for that definately isnt a conspiracy, i know that for a fact, i met an old women on the doorstep of wee cottage in darkest north fife, in tears of panic because the no thanks brigade had called 2 days earlier to say that if there was a yes vote, they would be round on the 19th to collect her pension book

    me, i was bloody furious, but the no postal vote had already been sent

  462. kalmar
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata: well it wouldn’t be anything to do with Kammerung’s top secret, no reason given visit there a month before the vote, would it?

  463. davidb
    Ignored
    says:

    The important thing is to hold the balance of power in wastemonster. That was how Charles Stewart Parnell got the Irish issue on the agenda in Victoria’s reign. There’s much to be learned from those who travelled this path out of the Empire before us.

  464. kalmar
    Ignored
    says:

    Tamson: well we do insist on playing fair, don’t we…
    How about declaring there to be another referendum instead?

  465. Tîm Criced i Gymru
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tamson 11:07p.m.
    says:
    Of course, due to the undemocratic nature of first-past-the-post voting, you can win half the Scottish constituencies on about a third of the vote. It wouldn’t be a viable platform to declare independence from

    …NOT IF MOST OF THOSE HAPPEN TO BE IN GLASGOW!!! 😉

  466. Tîm Criced i Gymru
    Ignored
    says:

    SORRY… Not UNLESS…most of those are in Glasgow…hurry up May 2015!

  467. Mealer
    Ignored
    says:

    Most trade unions supported No.Its time for Yes supporting union members to make their voices heard.

  468. A.N.Surgent
    Ignored
    says:

    Think that the ebc demo might not be the way to go, if people stop paying their licence they become irrelevant, if people stop buying
    papers they become irrelevant. The Hope not Fear rally in October
    could be massive, really massive.

    The dam has burst, we could be experiencing a peoples revolution
    right now and we are all part of it.

  469. DoziR
    Ignored
    says:

    How can you be sure all the new members are really independently minded people. Some older folk vote snp into power to get the freebies. not all snp supporters voted yes which astonishes me. This won’t be the first time they voted with their wallets.

    We lost because of lies and cheats.

  470. Lesley-Anne
    Ignored
    says:

    I think you have to be a wee bit fair to them James. I do not think ANY pro independence thought that for one second they would have been inundated with as many applications as they have done. The whole application for membership thingy ever since Friday has been nothing short of phenomenal in my view.

    I think, speaking specifically about the SNP here, that they dreamed and hoped of becoming the third largest party in UK but no one dared dream that it would ever become a reality. Not only are they now officially the THIRD largest party in UK but their membership is 10 times, yep that’s right TEN TIMES that of the Labour party in Scotland! 😛

  471. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    Re : postal vote sampling

    What is illegal is seeking to obtain/reveal information about how a particular vote was cast, eg by recording the serial number and managing to see how that person voted.

    Trying to see through the paper how many Yes and No votes there were (easier with No because the cross is near the bottom right hand corner), then assuming that is a representative sample and extrapolating, is common practice and ok provided the information is not made public (which it doesn’t seem to have been). It does of course inform campaigns what best to do on the day – that is the point.

    Electronic voting is all right so long as the company that makes the machines doesn’t belong to George W. Bush.

    Also:

    Postal votes can currently be requested for a particular election, for a particular period, or permanently. This will soon change.

    It is perfectly ok for someone to have 3 proxies to cast, provided at least one of those is for a close relative – there is a limit of 2 on behalf of people less closely connected.

  472. Findlay Farquaharson
    Ignored
    says:

    Its awffly unfair scotland can vote on independence but england and wales cant. Surely the english and welsh people deserve the same opportunity.

  473. Margaret Brogan
    Ignored
    says:

    So who set it up? I had a real respect for this woman, now she is either a dupe or a collaborator.

  474. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    Bearing in mind calls from the north-east of England for SNP members to stand there, the least along with a Scotland Alliance could be an additional alliance with NE England MPs.

    Now that would be fun.

  475. John H.
    Ignored
    says:

    Scot Finlayson 10.18pm.

    Knowing that the postal voting system was discredited long ago, I wrote to the SNP about 18 months ago.I asked them what precautions they had taken against electoral fraud, particularly postal voting.

    Their reply dismayed me.I was told that the referendum would be held using the same system that was used for council elections.I hoped that they were not telling me what they really had planned, and that they had prepared secure way of holding the vote. I was wrong.

  476. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata

    Orkney and Shetland have been Liberal strong holds for as long as anyone can remember. Things are mellow there and change slowly. That the local MP was a key part of the No campaign would also resonate locally. To be perfectly honest the fact they got 33% and 37% Yes is quite an achievement for the local Yes campaigns. I don’t think there was any skulduggery there.

    It was always likely we would lose the vote in the islands and the other liberal stronghold, the Borders. What was odd was the vote in other parts of the country where we should have done better. However, I am sceptical of voter fraud. I think the problem was No putting the squeeze on frightened oil and finance workers in Aberdeen and Edinburgh coupled with threats over currency and the EU for our pretty big food and drink exports industry.

    No played the scare stories incessently. There is a problem with a negative message though. People don’t like being scared into voting a particular way and the messenger often finds they are no longer popular. I think Labour are realising that right now. They did the dirty work for the Conservatives and now they will carry the can for it too.

  477. Now's the Hour
    Ignored
    says:

    Now that the SNP is officially the third largest party in the ‘UK’, I might start watching their joke of a news service again so I can complain if they get the term ‘three main political parties’ wrong.

    This truly is a momentum which cannot be stopped. Are you watching, No voters? Our time will come – a lot sooner than you think.

  478. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    For Scotland ever to have a fair and just society, two monsters must be completely destroyed:

    1. the Labour party

    2. the BBC.

  479. ewen
    Ignored
    says:

    cearc says:
    22 September, 2014 at 10:36 pm

    “The postals should not be seen or counted before arriving at the count”

    This was why I was shocked when Tory Ruthie said she had sampled postal votes a week before the referendum. She said that live on Thursday night and then got a bit flustered.

    Now I do think it is a waste of time banging on about election fraud but that comment did stick in my mind and started to make me think we would lose. Ruthie is a bit inexperienced when it comes to unionist elections. I think she realised she should have kept her gob shut by her flustered actions afterwards.

  480. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    Is that how the base the largest party though? Membership?

  481. Snode1965
    Ignored
    says:

    @ James 123. Tesco allowed their name to be used by better together campaign in print. The propaganda was a blatant fraud designed to intimidate the Scottish electorate. Don’t even get me started on their corporate business practices! Maybe you would like to defend the neo liberal elites, but I won’t. 🙂

  482. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    Time for volume two of the Wee Blue Book methinks.
    A Wee Blue Books which says at the top of each section “And were you lied to by ……?” or “Were you taken in by this lie?” or “did you believe this nonsense before you went down to vote?”

    Nothing changes anybody’s perception quicker than evidence that he or she had been deliberately lied to.

  483. Gallowglass
    Ignored
    says:

    Stuart, if you read this, I think we could do with you turning some attention to the fraud aspect…

  484. liz
    Ignored
    says:

    Apparently the Times tomorrow has on it’s front page – funding in Scotland will decrease says No10.

    This is the message we were trying to get across and failed.

    If any SLAB came anywhere near me I would find it hard to control my temper.

    We know there will be an increase in oil revenue which will be spent in the SE, it’s so frustrating



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