The best of friends
We’ve known and documented for some time now that Scottish Labour’s attitude towards “foreigners” is, well, let’s be super-generous and say “ambiguous”. But this photo from nine days ago made even us take a sharp breath.
The woman on the left is the Labour MP for Aberdeen South, Dame Anne Begg. She received her DBE in 2011 “for services to disabled people and to equal opportunities”. But who’s her No-campaigning pal?
Here he is, the same day. He’s slightly less keen on equal opportunities.
He’s Dave MacDonald, leader of National Front Scotland. He’s not a new face in the area – he was the NF’s candidate for the Aberdeen Donside by-election last year, and he’s been politically involved with the NF in the Aberdeen area since at least 2003. It would be absolutely absurd to suggest that Anne Begg didn’t know who he was.
Still, as long as he’s not one of those awful nationalists, eh?
You are fucking joking me! Seriously?! Labour, hang your heads in shame.
Funny how this wasn’t in any of the papers or on the TV…
For fairness and not because I believe her, she had this to say in her twitter feed:
“The picture was a set up. Horrible, nasty, odious people who will stoop to any level. Eugh!”
There are also pics of Charlie Drunkard Kennedy with Coburn campaignin in Inverness. Also don’t forget how cosy Danny Alexander was with Coburn.
Sorry I can’t find the pics now, maybe they have been taken down so as not to cause embarrassment to the clowns.
I’ve been totally disillusioned for the last week seeing what was happening.
This backs it up.
[shakes head]
Anne Begg is my MP. I will be emailing her on this subject presently.
Brian B….Fair enough but these people have to be careful.
They should know what’s at stake.
Really down about all of this.
Perhaps she was conned. She wasn’t the only one!
wow! breathtakingly hypocritical, and shocking, esp when i think of jim murphys exhibition in ayr.
the enemy of my enemy!
Basically sums up how low the unionists parties sunk to to secure a no
i hope you put everything into exposing and destroying scottish labour.
David Coburn comes across as horrible – from comparing the SNP to fascists, suggesting that Salmond is like Mugabe to being opposed to gay marriage on the grounds that it breeds homophobia. Despite Coburn himself being part of that minority he really should know better and that simply hiding away does nothing to change negative views nor help progressive equality.
Why Alexander and Kennedy (supposedly!) wanted to be seen with him when they try and campaign from the Left on these and other equality issues is beyond me!
sip with a lang spoon
“This pic was a set up” aye it looks like one so it does. Horses and bolted. Scottish labour knows no shame, it’s doing whatever Central Office tells them to get power and to hell with the people.
I was with Anne on on the 18th at tullos primary school polling station when I was sent this photo by a friend, I showed it to her and she denied knowing who he was, she then said “oh well worse things have happened”.
I’m no longer a labour party membee
Nothing excuses this.
Labour should have remembered what happened to the LibDems when they sided with the toxic tories. This is toxicity magnified ten times.
Amd in the third image is that not Labour’s Sarah Boyack to the far right (ha) of the picture?
And if A Begg didn’t know who he was then why not? Living in the Westminster bubble indeed.
Well as many have said labour has had their image destroyed in scotland they will never recover and nor do they deserve to any decent person in their right mind would not agree with the new neo liberal mindset of the 3 maain westminster parties how is neo-liberal ideas compatible with the working class answer… it cant they are diametrically opposed viewpoints and if labour should change the parties name as it actvley works against the working class utterly despicable party and its loyal supporters are beyond contempt to sell their own country down the river is unforgivable as of today i have like many joined the SNP so as to give them a massive majority in scottish parliment with the aim of not a referendum but actually DELCARING INDEPENDENCE we tried to be nice so that the uk would take minimum damage when we went indy but that route is no longer achievable as the UNION has acted shamefully to the detriment of the scottish people thereby nullifying the act of UNION.
The National Socialist Front?
Jim Murphy said the OO should not be taken to task for their parade, as its their right, and perhaps Yes should not have been critical. I have no doubt he is in bed with them, as he is a brazen thug. The violent right wing are more active down south, but I again said to people, they will travel as rent a mob. Also England has an active network of football casuals. They all connect, that was also obvious from the George Sq crap. They have a new playground, and were invited in.
The Battle of George Square summed it up. Nazi salutes under the Union Jack. Brits attacking Scots. Saltires being burned.
Jim Murphy would be right at home in the National Socialist Front.
Albalha says:
22 September, 2014 at 12:30 pm
Amd in the third image is that not Labour’s Sarah Boyack to the far right (ha) of the picture?
Sure does look like her….
Awards? After supporting illegal wars, harming and maiming millions all over the world. The Crash causing poverty and deprivation world wide.
This the same woman who was going on about anti English attacks in Aberdeen and there she is with a fascist.
there was no active disassociation towards far right groups.
in fact there was active encouragement “everyone has a right to vote”, is not a disassociation, but a very well known fact.
This is what im talking about.
Dont get angry. Dont get upset. Get practical. Get factual.
Do this and we win!
That is one of the most utterly depressing things about the UK – the really despicable alliances the unionist parties will forge.
On the subject of alliances and empowerment, this from Lesley Riddoch is worth a listen if you have about 45 mins to spare. Uplifting.
Kenny Everetts “Round em up” sketch routine springs to mind ( metaphorically of course)
OOPs
forgot the link to Lesley Riddoch:
link to rqs.libsyn.com
O/T
A wee reminder…
link to change.org
David MacDonald described by Anne Begg as a “neo Nazi thug” in 2004.
link to scotsman.com
I’m prepared to believe she didn’t know who he was. A great many Labour MPs take little interest in what is going in their own constituencies.
Ed Balls doesn’t mention devolved taxes to scotland
Sorry to go of topic so soon but I was disgusted last night to see on television all those liars had the brass neck to go into a church ,I wonder what god was thinking? How John Swinney managed to shake hands with them is beyond me ! I would not touch them with a barge pole they are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned ,I will never accept slavery no matter how it is dished up the ones who should feel ashamed are the slave owners and their helpers and we all no who they are.
Shameless Labour/Unionists
When I saw those loudmouth thugs disrupting the Yes campaign’s peaceful demonstration in George Square I wondered if they could be National Front so this makes perfect sense. I hope Labour know what happens when you lie down with dogs.
Ann Begg’s majority is only 3,500
Sorry, should have posted link
http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/dame–anne-begg/572
An English Parliament spending UK taxes. They want it all. To have their cake and eat yours.
No taxation without representation.
It doesn’t matter wether you hold the answers or not….politicians get in by making false promises..the main objective is to get past the post..democracy is a scam..but hey..that’s democracy..please stop being naive Scotland..I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. “He who controls the media controls the world”.
Margo was right, we are on the side of angels.
Labour, Tories, LibDems, National Front, SDL, BNP, Orange Order, Britannica, Britain First. They stand together to deny democracy through fear, lies, intimidation and violence. Ladies and gentlemen this is TeamGB.
That’s me in the baseball cap looking on in utter disgust. I didn’t know who they were but three of us had a (polite) verbal go at them shortly after they photobombed us.
Just for the record, Mr MacDonald strikes me as being as soft as sh*te when confronted with people who stand up to him.
When I was on polling duty chatting to my opponent, a member of the Labour party, a couple of things stuck in my mind.
She was a pleasant middle class/ middle aged woman.
I asked her was she not worried about TTIP – what’s that she said?
And, I was relieved by a fellow yesser, she was waiting to be relieved and I saw a tory councillor arriving, I said here’s your relief.
She said oh no it wont be him but it was – she looked horrified – I said that’s cause you’re better together.
… the fact that I forgot to put UKIP on the TeamGB list goes to show how much scum is floating around in the first place.
Anne Begg was well aware who this guy was as she previously tried to have a National Front march banned in Aberdeen.
A picture paints a thousand words.
Strangely I’m not feeling in the mood to be reconciled with ‘British’ Labour.
Meanwhile just doon the road outside M&S at the YES trailer which you can see in the 2nd photo [spot the WBB]. A week past Sunday I was manning one of the tables, just after the flashmob, it was exciting and an electric atmosphere. Suddenly the bonhomie disappeared as a Polish man with his small son came to ask us why he was going to be deported if he voted YES.
Across the small square Lewis McDonald and UKOK activists were in the business of lying. Despite our reassurances to the Polish father that it was a lie, he departed in tears.
The senior man and owner of the Yes trailer reported the incident to 3 Police Officers who had been observing at a distance – they swiftly moved in on the NO bunch.
Christian Allard MSP who had appeared on the scene to campaign was visibly annoyed and everything became very tense. At that point he told the Yes campaigners to pack up to avoid a serious confrontation. A sad end to a wonderful day.
What do we do now ?
We consolidate. Do not chase no voters or pursue Devo-max. Do not aim for 2nd best.
We leave labour to stew, they want to regain control. We leave them out. They will be pumped by the Tories next year, let labour rot.
Those who voted no will understand soon enough that a mistake was made.
For us on the ground, stay active, keep your Yes contacts going. Don’t let Devo-max distract us, aim for the best. Keep the ground campaign simmering & ready.
There were 6 NF candidates that stood in Aberdeen council elections in 2012, including Dave MacDonald. Labour would have been well aware of who these people were and what they represented.
Capella says:
22 September, 2014 at 12:56 pm
Ann Begg’s majority is only 3,500
…No more Begging in Aberdeen South after May 2015 then..!
“Spring time for UK and teamGB,” don’t be stupid be a smarty come and join the Labour Party. We’re marching at a faster pace, look out here comes the master race.
Just tried to explain this nightmare to a wonderful Pole Moved here to Aberdeen right the now, after not hiding it in time. All I could say was sorry.
You cannot pick your family but you most certainly can pick your friends
O/T
SNP has had to open an emergency phone line to help deal with applications
How sweet is revenge and funny (labour crowing about 17 in a month)
I presume the Press & Journal will be asking about the photos.
“It was a set-up” doesn’t wash. If that Alicsammin is responsible for every bad word a vile cybernat uses, Anne Begg can take responsibility for her fellow travellers too.
Guys, just on John Swinney having to be the SNP rep. to let the wounded lick their wounds – he did marvellous – BUT – read the Edinburgh news comment from him VERY carefully. “We all had one vote, we all used that one vote….. ” I’m getting a bit twitchy, and trying not to read too much but……..
She claims she didn’t know who he was. Riiight, so the habitual and proven liars of Labour/Better Together now merit the benefit of the doubt? Nah.
Our goal over the next few months is simple – the destruction of ‘Scottish’ Labour.
Don’t they look happy together, better together even..
I think we may see that photo again….perhaps in 2015, and possibly on the SNP G.E campaign material for the Aberdeen south constituency….
I remember when Donald Dewar came to the hospital I was working in to introduce Ann Begg. That’s when I found out what he was really like. Unlike Eck, he could not wait to get away, I’m sure he did not speak to a single patient. That’s when real disillusionment set in for me. So now the same with Begg, dishonesty rules the roost. I’m off to join SNP
heedtracker says
“Spring time for UK and teamGB,”
What?
like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
btw check out the Nazi@ 42seconds.
look like anyone we know?
If that film wasnt so old I would have sworn that was John Barrowman! 🙂
Brian B says:
22 September, 2014 at 12:14 pm
For fairness and not because I believe her, she had this to say in her twitter feed:
“The picture was a set up. Horrible, nasty, odious people who will stoop to any level. Eugh!”
I ain’t sure if she’s talking about her very own Labour party or the NF.
I don’t have any Wee Blue Books left, but they are circulating around somewhere.
If you have a WBB, give it to a friend who voted NO.
Heard someone on the radio being interviewed who is a property agent(?) and who was/is a Yes voter. He came out with the following, very succinct and to the point:
“The rich betrayed the poor. The old betrayed the young. And the powerful betrayed us all.”
Labour’s support is heading south at a rate of knots.
A word of warning though for those wanting to capitalise on this. Tory and Lib Dem voters will identify Labour as the best bet to oppose the SNP, and Labour’s vote will be artificially boosted in 2015 by unionists of all stripes seeking to deny the SNP seats.
I live in Aberdeen South – Anne Begg’s constituency and to say that Anne Begg did not know MacDonald is ludicrous. The NF in Aberdeen (despite their tiny numbers) get more coverage in the local Evening Express and Press & Journal (check their back issues) than any other off – centre party anywhere and MacDonald is their main mouthpiece.
Heather Mason of Pinsent Masons(!) LLP talking up the 2016 10p tax powers on BBC New24 here…pathetic.
The headline is Scotland Decides…second question “And what about England…”
Sorry, Heather Self…not Mason
I know that there was multiple voting as I saw with my own eyes some woman (with a Better Together Orkney Logo)from Galashiels boasting that she had 3 proxy votes as well as her own!
Just wish I had done a screen grab of the Facebook page when I had the chance
It was nice of him to stoop to her level. Thoughtful even.
@ heedtracker
That was funny, I mean belly laugh funny.
@ john king, Barrowman is complety terrifying. I thought using him in for the hideous Commonwealth games opener thing they did, was a pretty good kick in the nuts for Scotland too. Or put it this way, would a YES Scot have agreed to take the piss out of everything Scotland is world famous for, in front of much of that world. Mel Brooks satire works but the proud Scots but Barrowman attempt is just one giant creep out.
Apparently, the NF are highly embarrassed to have been associated with the Labour Party during the BT campaign.
“Even we aren’t that bad!”, “We may be nasty, but we don’t stab our own people in the back!” a NF spokesperson was reported saying.
Many of the No voters who I spoke to afterwards wanted political reform but found ‘nationalism’ distasteful be it Scottish or British. I don’t see that nationalism is a bad thing, its a faith as anything else so people should be free to connect with whatever identity makes them feel most comfortable be that be nationality, religion or pop group. On the other hand the Yes campaign was persecuted by the Bitter crew on that very issue which was one of the many reasons people moved to Yes. This is a war on many fronts and handing the enemy ammunition may not be the wisest move unless its set to backfire.
Somehow we need to address the violence of unionists. Scotttish people, including those whose roots are elsewhere, must be protected. How do we achieve this?
An inaugural meeting of the English Labour Party has now been held(I thought it was always this with a branch office in Scotland)
It included Ben Bradshaw Labour MP “He made his comments as he attended the inaugural meeting of the English Labour Party, which included MPs, local authority chiefs, and church and civic leaders”
link to westernmorningnews.co.uk
Apologies for butting in o/t here but I just had to say that when in the depths of despair on the 18/19th I’d never have guessed that within 4 days we’d be back up again and getting ready to hurt them where it counts.
[…] The best of friends […]
Tick tock, UK. Tick tock.
You too have a national front? I thought such a scourge was limited to us on the continent…
See Mgt Curran and J Lamont are going to target the Yes Labour voters or if you were cynical try and get them back into the fold for the GE.(Once they find out where they are again )
Stand tall ex Labour voters , you are now going to be love bombed !!
Yes, its good to watch the infighting – BTW Ed Balls has just told Conference they have to get in power next year to save the NHS from creeping privatisation – deja vue, anybody?
I am circulating the Dame Begg story, just as I told Mr Joyce yesterday, I enjoyed reading his rap sheet, which will make excellent material for 2015. We have to stop this namby pamby attitude to “oh lets not get into that” THIS is exactly what this is all about – liars! Why do we expect and praise Salmond for being honest, but baulk at dishing the dirt on these politicians – its is part of the territory. I’ve told someone on the Wings FB page I don’t agree with his call to “rise above” Garbage needs taking out! We are bloody buried in it.
Labour are the enemy. They are political prostitutes whose whole raison d’etre in
Scotland is to return MP’s to Westminster. Cameron has out foxed them by raising the WL question which will kill them off. We should regard them in the same way as the miners saw Thatcher. They are the enemy within who were used by the establishment to get the natives to see sense and are already being hung out to dry. They need flushed out from their power base in local government where patronage is rampant and taken square on at the next election and buried
Kaspar
fighting for england?
WM more like, now they have their hands on scottish treasure, they don’t need scottish people any more!
Hopefully future Lord Alistair Darling well condemn these two blood and soil nationalists. Takes you back eh? So much for his silent majority.
Does anyone know what LFI mean to do. Have they broken away from SLAB or what.
She was forced to retract publicly her Hitler jibes at Alex Salmond.
15,710 new members for SNP
@fred blogger
Yes I particularly enjoyed the headline
Devon Labour MP says party has to be clear “we are fighting for England”
Perhaps the slogan bettertogether didn’t reach as far as Devon
Re the bottom photo …is that Joan Ruddock former head of CND ?
Westminster signals threat to Scotland’s budget
Mon, 22/09/2014 – 13:01
Commenting on the publication of a parliamentary motion at Westminster on further devolution to Scotland – which fails to repeat the guarantee to Scotland’s budget mentioned in the “vow” issued by the Westminster leaders prior to the referendum – Scotland’s Finance Secretary John Swinney said that ditching the pledge made on the Barnett Formula would be an “unforgiveable breach of faith” by the Westminster parties for which they would be held to account by the people of Scotland.
Mr Swinney said:
“Just days before the referendum the Prime Minister and the other Westminster leaders made what was described as a ‘vow’ to the people of Scotland on more powers – and that pledge included a commitment to maintain Scotland’s funding.
“But that specific reference to the Barnett Formula is now missing from the parliamentary motion on more powers which has been published at Westminster.
“That is a deeply telling omission which threatens to be deeply damaging to Scotland and our public finances.
“Scrapping the Barnett Formula threatens to slash Scotland’s budget by around £4 billion a year – over and above the fresh £25 billion of austerity cuts the Tories already have planned.
“Failure to hold to their pre-referendum ‘vow’ would be an unforgiveable breach of faith, for which the Westminster parties would be held to account by the people of Scotland.
“David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg need to come clean – is Scotland’s budget protected or are they planning a cash grab which would see our funding slashed?”
ENDS
1. Parliamentary motion: “That this House welcomes the result of the Scottish independence referendum and the decision of the people of Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom; recognises that people across Scotland voted? for a Union based on the pooling and sharing of resources and for the? continuation of devolution inside the United Kingdom; notes the statement by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition regarding the guarantee of and timetable for further devolution to Scotland; calls on the Government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30th October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals; further calls on the Government to publish heads of agreement by the end of November and draft clauses for the new Scotland Bill by the end of January 2015.”
2.Extract from the vow on Barnett:
“And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.”
As each day passes more and more alleged evidence comes to the surface that this referendum was rigged. Even going by the old say of there is no smoke without fire we have a bloody great inferno burning away here, in my opinion. 😛
link to exopolitics.blogs.com
50 mins ago the SNP declared that 15710 new members had signed up (myself a mere one of them) since Thursday.. and growing!!
If you haven’t already done so and would like to then just go to..
snp.org
Let’s do this!!! 🙂
Just came across this on one of the Facebook groups. Make of it what you will guys and gals. 😉
Just came across this post there:
“I was at the count for fife as a counting agent all the results I was monitoring was I would say about 6% lead for yes then there was a slight delay with boxes and then all of a suden the box that came through was practically all no’s!! I couldnt believe what I was seeing then the labour councillor who was standing next to me was aproached by someone and this councillor showed him the result of the box I just spoke of and this person told him of a result they had got and the councillor replied ‘I thought we would have got gubbed there’ and this person replied to him ‘We did’ and walked away I thought to myself you cheating bastards and the rest is history I walked out of the count in disgust at 5.30am and I must say the walk back to my car was the longest lonliest walk I have ever made! If anyone needs to know I know where the box came from and I can recognise the councillor!”
@Lesley-Anne, this paragraph says it all..
The darkest wrong in Scottish history”
My legal analysis is that “the darkest wrong in its history has just been done to the Scottish people.” Because Scotland’s collective free will to become an independent nation by a fair, free vote has been thwarted by systemic fraud ordered by what can only be the highest levels of the political, financial, intelligence, and Monarchical plausible-deniability hierarchy in England, the basic social contract between Scotland and England was broken. At the very least, Scotland is entitled by law to a Recount, or to a Revote (because of the likelihood that existing ballots have been destroyed).
Labour courting the support of fascist organisations is not a new phenomena. Flies have been attracted to shit since the beginning of time.
@ Jim Murphy
You have some lovely friends, as a member of Labour Friends of Israel.
As the Guardian reported in April 2008, Board of Deputies spokesperson Ruth Smeed let readers know that “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web — it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel.”
But Kaminski and Roberts Zile, of the Waffen-SS supporting Latvian Freedom and Fatherland Party, are not the exceptions. Dutch far-right anti-Islam politician and Member of Parliament Geert Wilders is another figure who combines virulent racism with Zionism. As reported in the Israeli daily Haaretz on 18 June, Wilders claimed that “Israel is only the first line of defense for the West. Now it’s Israel but we are next. That’s why beyond solidarity, it is in Europe’s interest to stand by Israel.”
link to electronicintifada.net
@ Jim Murphy
Why do you support Zionism? Are you comfortable with the continual human rights abuses and apartheid practiced by the Israel state? Where were you in relation to South African apartheid?
The Green Party endorsement of the Stop the JNF Campaigns comes after similar motions were passed last year by the Scottish Green Party and Scottish Friends of the Earth, all repudiating the JNF’s claim to be an “environmental charity”. The JNF is known for establishing forests and parks over the remains of destroyed Palestinian villages. Last year the JNF lost high level political protection when David Cameron resigned as Honorary Patron, the first time in its 111 year history the serving British Prime Minister does not hold this position. Equally unprecedentedly, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg declined the JNF’s request to become Patrons when they became leaders of their parties.
link to jews4big.wordpress.com
link to stopthejnf.org
Molly @2.15:
Aye Labour Yes voters, Love bombing, hugging while picking your pockets, and stealing the bairns tea of the table, that man and dad had to collect from the food bank in George Sq. in Glasgow.
On a similar note I heard that Sharleen Spiteri the Texas lead singer was allied to the Unionist cause.
Lesley-Anne says:
22 September, 2014 at 2:32 pm
As each day passes more and more alleged evidence comes to the surface that this referendum was rigged. Even going by the old say of there is no smoke without fire we have a bloody great inferno burning away here, in my opinion. 😛
link to exopolitics.blogs.com
The footage could be faked, remember. If these incidents can be confirmed, for example by identification of staff involved at the counts/stations, or recognition of the station, or whistle-blowers, then it could be something. Otherwise, it has tobe taken with a pinch of salt.
There probably was some dirty trickery involved, but the reality is that the majority of the older generation did not want to risk their semi-comfortable lives for something potentially much better.
Yes needs to be clever. By focussing on vote rigging (be there vote rigging or not), that will allow the claims of conspiracy-theorists (and hence looneys) to be launched ad nauseum.
To suggest definitive vote rigging is to suggest a very clever, very large, and very secret campaign of vote rigging, which is impossible, if only for the reason that the people organising and conducting the conspiracy aren’t clever enough. The bigger the conspiracy theory (and this is big), the less likely the reality of the conspiracy.
Please, let’s not go down this route. The only people it will convince are the people who want to believe it (and who will be Yes voters already). The likely effect on those who didn’t vote, or were slightly veering towards Yes but did vote No, and with a heavy heart, will be to make them think that Yes is a big mental. It will be deterimental to the cause.
There is enough evidence of corruption from the establishment. We don’t need this. And they didn’t need it (to win), either.
@Nana Smith
Many LFI members have already cut up the Labour party membership cards. I wasn’t a member of the Labour party but did join LFI early on, I’ve now joined the SSP.
LFI will make their decision known soon enough. Meanwhile no matter your political beliefs and allegiances the quicker you join the party of your choice the better. Doesn’t matter if you can’t devote much time. A small contribution and your support will go a long way. Get to it folks and take advantage of their disarray.
Hey, Scottish Labour No voters here’s a love-bombing thank-you message from some of your Better Together fellow Brits :link to taxpayersalliance.com
Some lovely comments posted too.
Today’s news on all fronts shows how we are being screwed by the Tories and ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Labour and ConDems. Stifle the Scottish voice, screw Scotland fiscally in the name of ‘devolution’ and impose every condition possible on ‘devolution’ powers …… but, above all, so elongate the process, keep at the cynical whim of Tory leadership and its internal party ‘consultations’ that nothing happens while plans are drawn up to crush Independence aspirations for good. NO voting turkeys, hope you enjoy you Christmas with Santa Cameron and his elven helpers, Brown, Miliband, Darling, Clegg. So angry, so ‘told you so’.
I spoke to the Airdrie Savings Bank today with a view to moving my money to it. I was told that I need to see a branch manager to open an account. I was then told I would need to make an appointment as they were experiencing a great deal of new accounts wanting to be opened.
I asked is that from the likes of Clydesdale?
Both Clydesdale and RBS.
YES we are fighting back.
Hi Nana Smith,
Here’s a photie of Danny Alexander with that slimeball, Coburn. I don’t know how to post images on here so I’ve posted it on twitter and added the link, hope it works.
link to twitter.com
Nana and LA
I know a lot of folk on here disagree but i believe that any evidence, however seemingly spurious, needs to be investigated at the highest level. (Is evidence being collated?)
I agree that crying ‘fowl’ does not sit well but if there is any real evidence it cannot be ignored.
We all new the establishment would do anything to stop independence.
I have signed all relevant petitions and would encourage others to do the same.
The ugliest of elements, attitude and ideology informed NO – aggressive far right paranoias and enthusiasms.
@Alex Clark
Hi Alex! Intend to join SNP tomorrow when the website calms down. It’s great to see so many acting positively.
Nice pic, err… Meanwhile there are 3 burning current issues:
1) Pushing for a full INDEPENDENT investigation of vote rigging by the EU or UN.
2) Keeping a beady eye on the progress & timetable of DEVO-Broon.
3) Pressing really hard to get SNP to change its name from one that contributed at least 10% to losing the referendum – and which alienates many potential members which are at present being poached by SLP. It is politically a Social Democratic Party – so why not simply be called that and open an easier way for the YES alliance to work?
Independence is not just about the SNP.
Graeme Doig
Yeah I agree with you.
No-one wants to cry fowl play if nothing happened but I believe there is overwhelming evidence building up to support this.
What’s the point of rejecting all this and walking away to ‘hope’ that we get another chance and then also ‘hope’ that WM don’t cheat us again!
I’d rather take my chancesof fighting for a revote just now and see what happens. I still believe we may have won fair and square in the first place.
I see there are nearly 100,000 signatories calling for a recount of the referendum vote.
I don’t know if folks saw this in the Scotland on Sunday yesterday. Typical incompetent journalism included for free. According to the Bozzo who wrote the piece Jim Sillars is STILL a member of the SNP! 😛
link to archive.today
@ClanDonald
Well done for finding it, I’ve looked again for the Kennedy/Coburn pic but no luck.
@Nana Smith
I think they are holding a conference in Glasgow to decide what to do next.
For anyone wishing to join a pro independence party here are the links (in no particular order):
link to scottishgreens.org.uk
link to snp.org
link to scottishsocialistparty.org
I am a new snp member and I will walk the streets once more to rid this country of the scourge that is the Scottish (sic.) Labour Party.
Aye aye.
link to oilandgaspeople.com
@Chris Baxter
Agreed. I hope it is just disappointment. No pro-independence party has said anything about the ballot being rigged. The result has been accepted by the vast majority.
There’s a way to put the vote rigging to bed. A crowdfunded forensic survey of Clackmannanshire. It only has an electorate of 39,972 and was expected to be a shoe in for yes. Compare the survey with the results
Stu – could you give us your own view on the rigging conspiracy?
@Lesley Anne
Jim Sillars is a member of the SNP as far as I am aware.
Speaking about people in England calling for the scrapping of the Barnet Formula and generally trying to make life difficult.
I say – bring it on.
I really hope they screw that screw down tight and hammer us with everything they have.
That way, the tide of indignation that arises from it will be swift and unstoppable.
Every negative thing they do – from the merest jibe to whole policies negative to scots pushes people towards the independence for Scotland side.
All we have to do is be armed with facts, keep the heid and be prepared to debate with anyone who wants to.
Bring it on fckrs.
so many claims of vote rigging, and my gut feeling is that it did happen, especially in dundee… but I cannot fathom why, if all these incidents being reported now are true and honest accounts, why didn’t the people witnessing them ay something at the time/do something at the time? When the problems if they existed, could have been investigated and dealt with. Why come forward days later when it is too late to do anything about it? And that makes me doubt the validity and veracity of these stories.
16,000 new members for the SNP?! Add one more — have not been able to get onto the site, it has been working too slowly, but I am certainly joining up.
Would also be good if our allies in the SSP could somehow position themselves as the “real” Labour party. But they also suffer so much from no media presence. Likewise, the Greens have been polling in England better than the Lib Dems, and all you see is Clegg everywhere!!
@Kid Spotlight
3) Pressing really hard to get SNP to change its name from one that contributed at least 10% to losing the referendum – and which alienates many potential members which are at present being poached by SLP. It is politically a Social Democratic Party – so why not simply be called that and open an easier way for the YES alliance to work?
Can you give evidence for your assertion that the SNP’s name contributed to at least 10 per cent of losing the referendum, please?
O.K. folks time for a wee bit of a laugh and a cheer, I think. 😉
First up. Here is an article about everyone’s favourite egg collector. 😛
link to archive.today
Secondly, this is a wee song that some of you might just recognise! 😀
link to tinyurl.com
I’m with Chris. Drop the vote-rigging conspiracy theory stuff. Unless strong evidence of large-scale fraud starts coming to light, it’s pointless. You have over 400,000 votes to account for…
George Galloway ?@georgegalloway · 2h
Sorry Ed that was just balls…
and he spent last 100 days talking labour up
laugh or cry
Nana Smith says:
22 September, 2014 at 2:41 pm
@Lesley-Anne, this paragraph says it all..
The darkest wrong in Scottish history”
My legal analysis is that “the darkest wrong in its history has just been done to the Scottish people.” Because Scotland’s collective free will to become an independent nation by a fair, free vote has been thwarted by systemic fraud ordered by what can only be the highest levels of the political, financial, intelligence, and Monarchical plausible-deniability hierarchy in England, the basic social contract between Scotland and England was broken. At the very least, Scotland is entitled by law to a Recount, or to a Revote (because of the likelihood that existing ballots have been destroyed).
Well, the darker it is the more clearly you see the light
@David
Speaking about people in England calling for the scrapping of the Barnet Formula and generally trying to make life difficult.
I say – bring it on.
I really hope they screw that screw down tight and hammer us with everything they have.
That way, the tide of indignation that arises from it will be swift and unstoppable.
Quite. If they don’t scrap (or greatly alter) Barnett, so that the grant is cut by billions, and if they do provide some additional powers to the Scottish Parliament, then that is a serious brake on independence.
But that’s not going to happen. The Scottish and English dogs have been kicked awake. The Scots have been woken by the cheats of the UK Establishment. The English have been woken by the cheats of the Establishment.
Think about it if you’re English and followed the referendum even a little bit. All you’re hearing is “We subsidise Scotland”, and seeing all this pathetic raising of saltires over town halls, how “special” the lovebombing (pathetic though it was) Scotland was made to feel. The panic of Scotland possibly leaving.
So what do the people of Essex (already strongly anti-EU) think? Or the people of Sussex, Cornwall, Lancashire…
“What about us!”
Not only did the chasm get widened massively in Scotland, but it has been well and truly busted in England itself.
The Union is now under assault not just from the north, but from the south as well.
Tick tock.
Lesley I am going to the demo Ediburgh Sunday to hand the petition in demamnding a revote. 1pm. Not sure who has the petition will find out when we gather.
1. Parliamentary motion:
“That this House welcomes the result of the Scottish independence referendum and the decision of the people of Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom; recognises that people across Scotland voted? for a Union based on the pooling and sharing of resources and for the? continuation of devolution inside the United Kingdom; notes the statement by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition regarding the guarantee of and timetable for further devolution to Scotland; calls on the Government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30th October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals; further calls on the Government to publish heads of agreement by the end of November and draft clauses for the new Scotland Bill by the end of January 2015.”
2.Extract from the vow on Barnett:
“And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.”
There is no chance of a re-vote. Move on.
re-vote is a bogey,wasting time energy
but a VOW march outside daily record will bring 1000,s
Barnett formula NOT in parliamentary motion
Oops!
I forgot this one!
Stairheid Rammy claims that the Labour party is to reach out to Labour voters who voted YES.
Shadow Scottish secretary Margaret Curran said senior party figures would meet Labour voters who backed independence in last week’s referendum.
Hell they can reach out all they like but they no be able to touch anyone cause they’ll be told where to put their reaching, not a pretty sight by the way. 😛
link to bbc.co.uk
There’s not much point coming on here with anecdotal evidence of voting fraud.
Get in touch with the Electoral Commission with as many details as possible.
Alex Webb
Public Information Support
The Electoral Commission
Tel: 029 2034 6811
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
remember when that tory MP asked for a revote—he got WIPED OUT
those asking for revote are INSANE
Campaigning with other parties and interests is a matter of expediency for the Labour Party.
It simply has to be understood that the Labour Party was hijacked and taken over by individuals who are not, at heart, politicians. These people are simply careerists who do not possess any vision or ideas.
It is simply power for personal advancement and personal wealth.
The Labour Party operates like an old time Mafia organised crime gang and they are very organised when it comes to protecting their own interests.
The Union is merely a vehicle for their narrow self interests and the only thing that Labour politicians have in common is that as individuals they agree that their respective careers come first.
I’m absolutely convinced that Ann Begg is as devoid of compassion and decency as every other Labour MP, campaigning with an undesirable element is acceptable as it is to the benefit of Labour self interests.
They were willing to campaign with the Tory party, appear as guest speakers at Tory conferences and be bankrolled by Tory donors. What more proof is required?
@bookie
I’m inclined to agree. All evidence anecdotal or otherwise won’t bring last Thursday back. We should focus on moving forward and holding HMG and particularly the Labour party to account for their pledges and ‘vows’. Westminster can’t help being Westminster and they will fudge or outright break those pledges. We need to be ready when they do.
Folks,
Let’s remind ourselves of the magnitude of the task for the 2015 general election.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Anyone heard how the Labour YES meeting went? If there is no comment on the News, then can we surmise that all is not well?
“It was a set-up” sounds like the offline version of “my account was hacked”
I asked someone near me – a local Scout leader – if he was aware he had BNP stickers on his car along with his No Thanks/BT ones…his response? “So?”
SeasickDave
Get in touch with the Electoral Commission with as many details as possible.
Alex Webb
Public Information Support
The Electoral Commission
Tel: 029 2034 6811
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
What the Electoral Commission should be looking at is the breaking of its purdah rules, by the No campaign shifting the goal posts with a few days left.
The Vow – genuine or not – still broke those rules. Had the No campaign stuck to the rules and not made the Vow, then hundreds of thousands (according to the break down of why No supporters voted) would not have voted No. That is a scandal and must be challenged.
Anecdotal I know, but .. During the day of the Referendum I was travelling around a large working class area with a younger Yes worker, to see which polling stations had representatives outside the Polling Stations.
There weren’t any representatives from either side at many of the Polling Stations and we decided to set up outside a particularly busy one. We were only there about 5 minutes and I decided to go and stand at another station.
As I was leaving I noticed a local Labour councillor pass by in her ‘No Thanks’ vehicle and wondered if she would send up one of her No workers to stand alongside us.
Within 10 minutes I received a telephone call from my co-worker to say a man, who is a well known activist in the Orange Order, approached him threateningly, saying “Somebody told me that there were Yes men spreading lies about the OO here. Was that you?” Eh was it?”. He eventually left but my friend took a picture of his car registration.
Up until that point we had hardly spoken to anyone and had just said “Good morning” to a couple of voters.
Later that night we saw the said OO activist jumping about at a BT party celebrating with Labour Party representatives. We rewound the TV and took a picture of him and spread it on Facebook.
We now know who he is and we know who the esteemed councillor is and will be putting forward a candidate to stand against her at the next council elections. Her party is in coalition with Tories here to keep the SNP out.
The good news is my friend who stayed outside the Polling Station for several hours doing his own Exit Poll said it was “Rock solid Yes” with voters from all religions putting their faith in our movement.
L-A, loved that version of FOS, will that be sung at the next SvE game? That’s quite soon I think is it not?
Will the Scotland YES supporters that attend and maybe the Scotland team be wearing black armbands do you think?
Unfortunately, even with evidence of vote rigging, the result would probably have still been a NO victory. My generation together with the well heeled ‘me’ ‘I’m OK self-centred’ are ‘wot won it’. But it may soon transpire that many of these will realise they have been duped……certainly among the older generation. The affluent self-centred are the natural Tory power base …. and nothing short of a lobotomy could change its ‘mind’. But I think it best now to take advantage of the amazing political positive and hope that he Yes Campaign has given us – as evidenced in the amazing will to be involved that is seeing the huge commitment to the Independence Parties. No matter how justified, and I believe it IS justified, this energy could be distracted by too prolonged obsession with trying to get a revote. Alex has said some really interesting things on how Independence could STIILL be achieved. The first salvo has been fired and is hitting home. Let’s keep up the battle…without playing into Tory/BBC/MSM hands.
reconciliation with liars is pointless.
reconciliation with the duped is joyful.
Chris Baxter
Yep, the breaking of the purdah was one of the biggest issues as far as I am concerned.
That and Ruth Davidson boasting of having had a preview of the postal votes.
I am also very concerned about the Glasgow and Dundee turnouts but have nothing concrete for that.
Aye you’re right David. The darker it becomes the LIGHTER it actually becomes for those who fought for the side of a more caring, fairer and equal society. That side was none other than the legions of YES supporters all across Scotland. This fight is not over, not by a long chalk.
Westminster think that Friday’s result has killed us all off. Far from it, in fact Friday’s result has only achieved ONE thing and that is to ensure our willingness to fight for what is right has only been strengthened!
Good for you BJ.
I know there are some who say we should just move on, unfortunately there is, in my view, far too many unanswered questions surrounding the count. Whilst the right to a recount was removed from us BEFORE the referendum began it still does not stop us from calling for one. I think with all the mounting allegations of voting fraud appearing every day, something will have to be done. Whilst the re count will not be amongst the options other options are still available to us. One thing that the calling for a recount does do is that it focuses, in my view, the mindset of Westminster. What I mean is that they see us constantly calling for a recount whilst knowing it can never happen but what they are NOT seeing are the alternatives that we are pursuing.
Rev just wondering about the pensions if i was a pensioner and had paid my national insurance contrabutions surely westminster was on the hook for all pensions before Independance day? and after for all who paid into the pension pot?
Hi folks,
Sorry to go back to the possibility of vote rigging, but in regards to the postal votes, is there any way to check how individual votes were cast? I had a postal vote due to being abroad on the 18th. I want to know that my vote was declared/counted for Yes.
Its kind of hard to put thoughts into words that make any sense, but each postal vote definitely had a 9 character individual ref number – 3 letters and 6 digits. Is it possible to check with individual counting stations as to what that reference number was declared for, either yes or no.
I took photos of my postal vote and the postal voting statement side by side so have my own proof – call me suspicious, but in the back of my mind I had a feeling that the postal votes were best chance to do any rigging – if there was actually any rigging to be done.
Sorry if it sounds crazy and I’m not sure what the official counting process entails, but if there was a way to check for sure then it would put my mind at ease.
Guys,
anti dote to all the violence fromr recent days in george square:
BBC news
Thousands of food bags donated to pop-up foodbank in Glasgow.
What’s laughingly called Scottish Labour aren’t registered in Scotland are they?
Just wondering like, but what if LFI or SSP and other like minded true socialists got together got together and registered as ‘Scottish Labour Party’? Put clear water between Scottish Labour and British Labour as it were.
Just a thought.
The result is not formalised until 6 weeks after the count. It’s in the statute law. This allows time for the public to petition for a recount. But we need a revote. Either way there is a lot of evidence.
Saw this tweet from the. Labour Party Conference
“15:32: Miliband’s ‘Oscars’ speech On the stage at the Labour conference in Manchester, party leader Ed Miliband says it is becoming “like the Oscars” as he thanks figures within the party who helped with the ‘No’ campaign.”
It”ll no be an oscar he gets in 2015 it will be a Razzy
Nigerian Pirate
Ask the EC.
Alex Webb
Public Information Support
The Electoral Commission
Tel: 029 2034 6811
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
Yup time to move on. Lets go for the labour party at every level, particularly the labour held councils, who have far to much control over to many matters. for example who said yes members were no longer members of the public, and not allowed the use of public amenities. smacks of Maggie Thatchers ideas
Tell me again,who are the who called who nazis during the indyref to scare old old age pensioners?
Mliband’s oily, ugly, misplaced smugness in congratulating the architects of the NO victory. Labour entirely compromised and prostituted. Vile.
Sorry folks! I don’t know how I thought that the Labour YES meeting was today. Just realised it can’t be with Fran & Anna being down at the Labour Party Conference!
Seasick Dave @ 3:51
Yeah cheers for that. I had posted way before the EC address had come up earlier, but my posts are taking about 20 mins to appear on the site.
I’ll email the address and see what they say. It might be futile on my part but it would put my mind at ease if they can confirm.
Have you seen how George Square was reported in the Times
It’s a disgrace, there must be someway to challenge this nonsense
link to thetimes.co.uk
OT re. previous topic. Disgusted but not surprised about the abusegiven to Rev. Stu. I tend to think that the more hateful and abusive the comment, it is directly linked to the size of their brain and no.of brain cells they have.
Fascism seems to be alive and well in our green and pleasant land. I hope that begg understands that being disabled or mentally ill was tantamount to a criminal offence in nazi germany
Lesley Riddoch in superb form on latest podcast
link to lesleyriddoch.co.uk
Did I just hear JL wanting to ‘change the world’ what a deluded eejit, we just can’t allow her to represent Scotland at any level.
@Nigerian Pirate
The sytem in Fife had mechanical matching of Postal Voting Statements and ballot papers. There was a notice on the instructions that you could use your identity number from the PVS to log in and check that your PVS had been allowed and that your ballot had been counted into a postal ballot box.
The postal ballots in Fife were counted and bundled when agreed with the mechanical tally and placed in the postal ballot boxes at the end of the day and then sealed which is why postal ballot boxes when emptied at the count had all their votes neatly packaged and counted.
It certainly is a *ahem* fun version T Jenny. I have to admit getting some of the words right may be a wee problem though. 😛
With regards to all the anecdotal evidence that is floating around, so long as it just stays anecdotal then yes nothing much can be done which is why the petition for a judicial review is so important, in my view. It will be here that all the, up till now, anecdotal evidence will have to be produced as fact, either by written legal statement or video evidence.
Should the review go in OUR favour, which I naively believe it could, then I understand that we would then have the necessary legal grounds for the First Minister, who ever it is 😉 , to recall the Three Estates. By recalling the Three Estates then we could yet see Scotland declared an independent country and there is NOTHING Cameron, Milliband, Clegg or any of the other useless Muppets do. 😛
@Lesley Anne et al: In my office no-one within my dept of 30 odd people voted Yes. Get over it. Multiple posters on here who were at the counts have said they did not see any evidence of rigging. Next time there is a referendum I would recommend spending a bit of time on websites that don’t just reinforce your own views, then you will be less likely to suffer cognitive dissonance if the result doesn’t go your way.
Brian Penn – You can’t say that Labour don’t think big, JL changing the world, GB saving the world, pity they don’t start in their own back yard.
@Kid Spotlight @muttley79 As I said in an earlier post, I completely agree re SNP name change. I have been an SNP supporter all my life and am proud of its development into a mature, modern and capable political party that has done a great job in government. But we have to think with our heads, like our enemies. Morally, why the hell should we lose that iconic name. Tactically? A lot of voters don’t do the niceties of National v Nationalist and it gives the newspapers and BBC a field day. With all the new members joining from all walks of political perspectives on board, it would be a great excuse to change the name (it would not even be the first time anyway). Why not Scottish Democratic Party? Let the press then try and attack the ‘nasty Democrats’ rather than Nationalists. I know a lot of people who would never countenance support for a party called the SNP but in time would soon forget and support a Democratic party. It would help draw the 45 and some from the 55 into a campaign for more devolution and when, as we expect, this ultimately fails, we will get our chance again and be ready for it with a broader church of support.
If you think about it logically, nearly half of the people at each of the counts would have been Yes voters. Or were they all paid to look the other way?
Labour Party conference NHS is being privatised.That was a quick turnaround 4 days ago it wasn’t the Tories must have been busy at weekend.I have just joined SNP
Don’t know why Miliband is against Scottish MPs not voting on English only matters, can’t see there being enough Scottish Labour MPs in 2015 for it to cause him any problems.
handclapping @ 4:10
Thank you for the info. I dont have access to any instructions that came along with the PVS but will email the EC anyway.
I’m not sure what system the Western Isles had but due to the smaller numbers involved I doubt they had anything like what Fife had.
Cheers for the help folks.
Labour has always had strange bedfellows.
Annie, are you aware of the mountain we need to climb to dislodge the Feckless 41? There are only 7 with majorities under 10,000!
Sorry this has nothing to do with the referendum but thought it interesting all the same. 😉
link to robedwards.com
labour party plans to raise tax band up to 50p in £, to improve health services (the national bit i left out coz NHS is de-existed) so that share holders can make more in profits.
Tamson – Yes but remember all of the new people who registered to vote, they didn’t do that for more of the same, so between them and all the disaffected Labour voters I don’t think it’s impossible.
‘I have never been so grateful for the Tories. They got their supporters out in middle-class areas and saved the Union, while our people were switching to Yes.
‘For the first time ever, I was so happy the turnouts in the schemes were lower than elsewhere.’
As many have stated already, there is no point in conjecture as regards voting fraud
Unless anyone has hard proof, that is something that’s in writing or video of fraud planned or taking place. Then you cannot do anything further.
Sooner or later some one will have a loose tongue and start to boast of what has happened, but until then, can only suggest trying to collect hard evidence.
Make no mistake if anything can be proved, it would lead to he biggest and I mean biggest scandal of all time
Until then keeping digging away, don’t under any circumstance let anyone know what’s going on
Its a great pity we really don’t have the likes of Pilger in our media. We really don’t have any journalists worth a penny that would look into this
sorry better post the link to my above post as it has the pledge(spit) word in the title.
link to theguardian.com
Is it possible to dig out more ‘terrible twin’ pictures like this one, and publish them with titles like: Better Together: Labour and the National Front in perfect harmony, then an explanation of who the ‘happy couple’ are in the picture?
Then, Better Together: Labour and the Tories in perfect harmony, with similar explanations. There must be plenty of these …
Better Together: Labour and the OO in harmony ….. etc etc.
To be fair, it is not just Labour that should be targetted. The Tories and the Lib Dems deserve it too
Chris
What I get from what you say is that “truth” doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is increasing the snp vote.
Makes folk think that that was the intentions all along – increase snp support and ruin labour. How much money have SNP made with all these new members. What about the people that don’t have the money to join. Are you going to waive your fees to include the people you are suppose to represent.
I’m all for ruining labour and the tories but if what you do now doesn’t at least begin with “truth” then you are all as bad as them, for all I know you are them.
There is no big mad conspiracy theory, it’s called fraud and lies. I thought you guys on here cared about your country and it’s people. Where are the good guys or is it true that there aren’t any.
I would love to join the SNP give me a reason to do it.
I’m disappointed yet again.
The task in front.
@ Jim Murphy
As a member of Labour Friends of Israel, you appear to support Zionism and Israeli nationalism. Why not Support Scottish nationalism? What exactly does “Better Together” mean to an imperialist like yourself?
P.S. I’m not a nationalist, simply highlighting a major hypocrisy at the heart of ‘socialist’ Labour. Imperialism and Zionism can’t be separated.
Forget about any notions of a re-vote due to some possible voting fraud – it’s not going to happen.
There would have had to have been some kind of major conspiracy to ‘add’ half-a-million votes to the No pile… which didn’t happen.
And what about the situation where there actually is a re-vote, and the result gives an even higher percentage to No… which could well happen?
Forget it and move on.
DoziR
You don’t have to join the SNP, there are the Greens and SSP who also support the Yes movement and possibly others (Solidarity?). This is about putting pressure on the traditional parties who are against independence not favouring one party. Nicola Sturgeon congratulated those joining the Greens as well as those joining the SNP.
On the SNP as far as I can see you can select your membership fee and they have a minimum rate of £1 a month.
SNP membership now almost equal to national figure for Lib Dem party 40k plus
DoziR
What I get from what you say is that “truth” doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is increasing the snp vote.
I’m not sure if you’re referring to me.
Let me make clear what I meant.
1) I don’t believe that there was mass vote rigging.
2) Whatever evidence has been presented must be proven – in terms of scale also – before it’s publicised, otherwise we all sound bad.
Were there possibly some vote counters rigging votes? Possibly.
It is very hard to prove intent. But any claims of illegal behaviour must be done so responsibly, and not screamed about loudly because it will achieve bad press, like it or not. There is zero chance that any vote rigging was on a scale large enough to affect 400,000 votes.
Surely any alleged fraud would have taken place en route from polling station to counting centre. Who was checking during these journeys?
Whether there was vote-rigging or not is not the point, and it’s doubtful whether it was on such a scale to affect the result.
The point is we were not organised enough to have observers watching ballot boxes from start to finish on polling day & escort them to the count, and were not able to remove the doubt. If there is another poll in 15-20 years, we should aim to build an organisation able to do this, and be prepared next time
@DoziR –
I would love to join the SNP give me a reason to do it
Hope
Regarding the main topic issue, there is no way that the photo of Ann Begg is a set-up. She looks very content in that photo, with a large smile on her face. As others have pointed out, she will know this person, and in that respect she should have distanced herself. She didn’t. Just like the rest of the No campaign that made an alliance with the Orange Order, the BNP, and other far-right extremists. She is trying to get out of it, and she will fail.
As for the vote-rigging, can we please put an end to it. There may have been a couple of irregularities, and there may well have been a few votes that came our way as a result of tired eyes or weariness. There was no widespread rigging, so we have to put an end to this conspiracy pish once and for all, and put all of our energy into the next phase. The GE is a few short months away, and we have to put everything into this, and the destruction of Scottish Labour.
Macart says:
22 September, 2014 at 3:47 pm
What’s laughingly called Scottish Labour aren’t registered in Scotland are they?
They are not registered as such. In fact there is no such entity. It is simply registered as The Labour Party registered in London, memory recalls.
You have to be very careful about a name change.
Scottish Democratic Party. SDP? Not again ….
Democracy For Scotland. DFS? Sofa so good
hello just a quick question my brothers neighbour wants to join the SNP
1 – cant get onto the site (told him it was busy)
2 – can he join without having to pay (out of work just now)
cant answer the second question
Rev:
I don’t know if you have made your decision to pull back from Scottish commentary. But the fact that Sweetcheeks Hothersall is crawling all over the internet trying to diss you and Wings might help you in your decision. Clearly SLAB is very afraid that you might continue attacking their lies and those of their disgusting friends in the Scottish media and so prevent many of the SLAB MPs from being re-elected.
I can think of no better cause to support than that of “the 45” in its aim to remove those cancers from the body politic in Scotland. And no better commentator than you to help us to do it.
Labour being pictured here together with a NF member coupled with events in George Square last Friday night with the vile bnp along with the airbrushing of the truth from the corrupt ebc have made my blood run cold for those last dark dark days.
To be honest, I disappeared after it became apparent we had lost the vote and went through stages of feeling physically sick and of wanting to emigrate. I thought I had reached the end of my involvement in the quest for my countrys independence. I was then shown the fraud allegations on facebook by friends and went from devastation to anger and bouts of feeling depressed and back again.
In between this, I still read the Rev Stus articles and marvelled at the spirit of the posters here who rallied far better than me. I became inspired by our amazing Yes movement in George Square with them refusing to give up and at the same time shout out to the world pointing to the corruption and collusion of the WM state machine we have had and still have to endure as they try to break our individual and collective will.
I wouldn’t have blamed Stu for walking away but now after witnessing a real political awakening across all ages, I too believe there is something in the air. Now im more determined than Ive ever been. We have to take our independence. Being the good guy has got us this far and we almost had them. Now we play by our rules and hopefully would love to see a crowd funded media online of tv, radio and news site. I too want to see Labour wiped out at the GE 2015 in Scotland.
Im now more than ready to rejoin this fight of our lives and i’ll add my voice to all others calling for Stu to stay on as we need him more than we ever did. Im willing to continue to help fund the awesome wingsoverscotland site.
To all you people on here I owe my thanks to renewing my hope when I had almost gave up the ghost. You really are an inspiration and im so proud to be part of the project45 who voted Yes. I will never accept Westminster rule. I aim to get those 15 hours of sovereignty I had last Thursday back..for all time.
I watched a docu once of begg going on flight to WM what a palaver it was! and I thought how much is this costing the taxpayer? Why is she not at holyrood? Greed?
The conspiracy theories on vote rigging will get nowhere and is just diverting folk from the task in hand, which is to increase the 45%
IMO it’s a waste of time and energy – BTW I do think there is a lot to be suspicious about, especially the fire alarms during counting in Dundee.
Think about who killed JFK – certainly questionable – but 50 years down he line people are still talking about it.
I think the next election coming up will be very interesting as all the focus will be on wooing middle England and we need to make sure the people who rely on the BBC and MSM don’t get the wrong info – Scotland’s needs will have zero consideration altho the usual suspects will pretend otherwise.
Interestingly Rory the tory and 2 other northern English constituencies want the north to be able to compete with Scotland.
Remember the ‘race to the bottom’ we kept hearing about, obviously that doesn’t matter now.
Trying to catch up on the progress of the “extra powers” discussions on BBC World at One today, I heard what I thought must be a UKIP conference speech. I was disappointed, but not surprised, to find it was Ed Balls, doing a fairly convincing Nigel Farage impersonation. Here’s what he said:
“So Conference, we should have had tougher rules on immigration from Eastern Europe – it was a mistake not to have transitional controls in 2004. And we must change the rules in the future. Longer transitional controls for new countries. A longer time people have to work before they can get unemployment benefit. Stopping people claiming child benefit and tax credits for families abroad … Tough controls, fair rules. That is what we mean by fair movement not free movement.”
To be fair on him, I should point out that the “…” replaces the one sentence I agree with: “Cracking down on employers who exploit migrant workers and undercut wages by avoiding the minimum wage and proper rights at work.”
But the rest of it… I heard it already, in essence, recently from Ed Miliband, and now Ed Balls has expanded on this approach. We’re a Scottish/Romanian family, and I’ve benefited from “free movement” rules in other EU countries, so I felt betrayed by Ed One, and then even more so by Ed Two. How could they do it anyway? The EU rules are perfectly clear. Also, how can it be argued that it’s fair for someone to pay taxes at UK levels, but not be entitled to UK child benefit for their children, wherever they are? Will Ed or Ed now propose a tax rebate for EU workers who are denied equal rights? I don’t think so.
Wings readers who missed it might be interested to know that World at One coverage of the outcome of the referendum consisted entirely, as far as I heard, of the proposal to limit Scottish MPs’ voting rights at Westminster. We should listen more to BBC Radio 4: what’s not said is as revealing as what is.
The poorest area in Scotland,the area with the most food banks, the most signed up to vote, the most targeted by the Yes campaign, the most let down by the Labour party,
“GLASGOW”
But they could’ny be bothered to vote??? 75% lowest in the country
I kinda dont think that sounds logical on any level
Do you “REALLY”?
Unless the wide scale fraud is not tackled, it will occur again and again at any and every election at will!
Remember the increase in postal ballots, these postal ballots remain in place. Once anyone has signed up to it, it will repeat for all future elections. This above all must be tackled
Re the unemployed wanting to join the SNP, I think we could have a fund for folk who don’t have the cash at the mo to enable them to join any of the Yes parties.
If there was vote rigging, and it is a very big ‘if’, it would have to have been on a massive scale. Any organisation with that amount of power would also be able to discount or interfere with a recount, re vote, or complaint. We would be setting ourselves up for another massive disappointment. Also those members of the public who are not that interested in politics would be unlikely to come out again.
We have to re-group, reorganise and agree on our next step, there is plenty to do. The next time we will be stronger, less naive and more suspicious . UK politics are in flux- we must stand ready to seize our opportunities.
Lesley-Anne…. I am mobile again, would you like to meet up?
Just a wee side note to Kendo if he is around. Have you seen this Kendo?
link to facebook.com
Regarding purdah….
Yet again, a fast one was pulled. Purdah was defined as no new initiatives by either Government.
Which is why the Vow etc. was couched as a proposal from the leaders of political parties, not the Government.
Next time round, we need to look at the phrasing more carefully before agreeing to it.
Meanwhile, pursuing braking of purdah is a waste of effort.
Just came home and seen this on the BBC red button:
Salmond has lost the plot says Darling:
Mr Darling said his opponent must accept the outcome of the referendum, this is the best bit.Meanwhile Labour reached out to supporters who voted for Independence to come
‘Home to the party’.
to quote and old Glasgow saying,
Aye right i would rather eat my own SH***
Caledonia, if someone is out of work or on low income then they can join the SNP for £5 a year I believe. You can tell I don’t do the household accounts in this house can’t you. 😛
Most westminster mp’s don’t have any thoughts of there own – the media creates an opinion of what’s popular in the uk thinking and then mp’s just jump on to it sayin “I support that” without even checking what there agreeing on. Case proven with ed balls immigration speech, millarandom now nhs privitaztion and like the photo shows above anyone who is supporting better together in my pal.
@stewart bc Fair point. I kinodove like the comfy sofa idea. However, do you think SDP means much to a lot of folk under certain age and those above it are not exactly the target anyway long term??
Re: Party membership
There’s been a lot of mention on here of joining up to the three pro-independence parties. Personally, I find myself attracted by the Scottish Greens, but whereas the SNP and SSP are undoubtedly parties that stand on a strong independentist platform, I’d like to hear from someone within the Green movement in respect of whether this is the case with the Greens.
From my understanding, there was a 2:1 split within the Green Party about whether to support independence in the first place, with the decision to support it being taken on the basis that the result would be accepted and it would no longer constitute a key tenant of Green politics after the vote.
If this is the case, and please correct me if I’m wrong on it, what is the Green Party’s approach now? Are they still a pro-independence party, or was that only until 18th September?
As with many people on the forum, I could never see myself joining a political party, ever. However, desperate times and all that. Although I agree with most SNP policies, I think it’s important to have 2 or 3 pro-independence parties within the system (like Euskadi or Catalonia), and to give a greater pro-independence choice to the electorate.
the scottish greens called for unity.
when people call for unity they actually mean subservience.
i alone choose my friends and my politics.
On balance, I do not think we have anything to lose by kicking up a fuss about vote rigging. We will move on in any case.
Those that support us will not mind and internationally it will play well to our friends and badly for the UK’s image. Many people will conclude that there can be no smoke without fire – like Bush’s Florida count.
To be frank I always expected that if it got close they would inevitably cheat. The stakes were too high for them. They had the means, the motive and the opportunity.
UK politics are in flux- we must stand ready to seize our opportunities.
And there will be many more opportunities, some expected, some not, on the rocky road to freedom.
O/T Wonder if they’ll blame the Footsie drop of 1% on Scotland not gaining idependence? Interesting that Weir Group, one of the noisiest of the ‘risk & uncertainty’ brigade, drops by nearly 2%.
@Devereaux. 4.16.pm
We’ve already been through all this stuff about changing the name of the SNP.
There was a proposal to change the Party’s name to ‘The Social Democrats’ back in the 1960’s and it was thrown out for the following reason.
It’s called the Scottish National Party because it represents the Nation of the Scots. That means it encompasses and represents all shades of politics in Scotland whether it be red, green or blue. Forget all this posturing; it’s nonsense.
The SNP is thoroughly democratic and we should all be on board helping them to achieve our freedom.
@ Macart, 3:47pm
SLP (Scottish Labour Party) was the name of the party founded by Jim Sillars in 1976.
We’ve been here before in Scotland and in the wider UK with both SLP and SDP, both gone.
New parties need careful planning.
@ Quentin Quale, 5:32pm
O/T Wonder if they’ll blame the Footsie drop of 1% on Scotland not gaining idependence? Interesting that Weir Group, one of the noisiest of the ‘risk & uncertainty’ brigade, drops by nearly 2%.
All I can say is: LOL
Dear NAW voter.
I hope you are still feeling in celebratory mood. After all you won the referendum that said we are better together. I’m guessing though that when you voted NAW to independence you did NOT consider this to be a reason why we are better together did you?
link to facebook.com
Re vote rigging.
Does anybody know if the woman moving the ballot papers about and the young lad possibly marking the ballot papers have been identified yet?
Surely, they have to spoken to by the police and explain there actions.
(notice i didn’t mention cheating)
Postal vote 70-30? Nae danger.
Just a thought — is it worth tapping into the great affection for Scotland through blood ties in the United States, Canada, Australia? Maybe setting up something either virtual or physical, especially in America, along the lines of “independent Scottish embassy” or clubs as a focal point for raising awareness, funding? Might also be used as a media platform? Americans are kind and generous, so many are proud of Scottish heritage — and they have form on ridding themselves of the British Empire!
Wonder how this will go down with the UAF crowd?
link to theguardian.com They savaged Scotland, Scottish democracy, their reputation etc and now after 2 business days, Scotland is long forgotten by the biggest nastiest teamGB hypocrites since the Press and Journal took a poop this afternoon.
The Rough Bounds @5.32 – I agree wholeheartedly.
However the one party that needs it’s name clarified is official British Labour Party (BLAB) that hides behind its pretence at calling itself up here the non-existent Scottish Labour Party (Slab).
Those reported 17 new members of the labour Party must be fair away with themselves – I presume the Labour membership portal must have been in shock – when was the last time there was such a headlong rush?
liz says:
22 September, 2014 at 5:18 pm
Re the unemployed wanting to join the SNP, I think we could have a fund for folk who don’t have the cash at the mo to enable them to join any of the Yes parties.
There is an opportunity for the YES movement to morph from a diverse debating society into a real civic power in Scotland. The vacuum caused by government austerity is providing big opportunities to organise charities, food banks, community projects etc. I was touched by the number of food parcels etc donated during YES peace gatherings. There are lots of very nice, generous YES people out there. Let’s get out there and do something practical, shaming our elites, as we prepare for the next push for independence.
Let’s show our Imperial masters that we can run our country better ourselves.
Re the vote rigging question, there is evidence , Glasgow police have 10 , possibly the tip of the iceberg , can I say we wait and see what if any results the police investigation turns up , if blame can be pointed to anyone with connections to the no camp then the call for a revote/recount can then be used.
As to joining the snp you can download a form and fill it in if you are still having trouble logging on , and at £1 a month is affordable to the unemployed as I am one and I will be joining as soon as possible.
Maybe it’s my age or maybe I’m just silly, but if there are continued allegations of vote rigging, as mentioned in these threads, and I have seen what is claimed to be, images of yes ballots on NO piles, and alleged filmed evidence of a young man allegedly marking voting papers.
I have also seen film what appeared to be two women engaged in shredding papers. Ballot boxes arriving at the count, when opened appeared to produce ballot papers already ‘bundled’.
There may well be acceptable explanations for what these instances appear to portray, but they surely, at the very least, require proper investigation. Do they not.
The individuals portrayed in the videos are easily recognisable.
I would have thought that as one of the instances appeared on a Sky News item, that it would at least merited further investigation by them.
This is spinmaster mathematician & journalist Glenn Campbell on BBC feed at 16:56: Yes party member surge…
Not just the SNP but also the other parties in the Yes campaign seem to be benefiting from a surge in membership.
In the case of the SNP they say that their membership has gone up from something like 25,000 to, at 4pm today, more than 42,000.
They are now within striking distance of overtaking the Liberal Democrat membership across the UK.
The Greens say they have also picked up 3,000 members since the referendum vote. They only had 2,000 to start with, so that is an even more extraordinary increase in their size.
WOT?!?!?!
How can a 50% increase (however remarkable and welcome that is to see – good on yer, Greens) in Scot.Green membership be EVEN MORE extraordinary than a 68% increase in SNP membership?!
Patrick Harvie is a gem. Not all Greens a like him unfortunately. Robin Harper, former leader was in the MO campaign, Remember him?
I saw tow English CND wimmen at the Faslane Rally on telly say that they voted No,. The convenor of the SCND is also in the Labour Party. That should tell you plenty and a slap in the face to the many long standing SCND members, such as Brian Quail.
I hear some of the RIC, etc, are hoping to capitalise on this and form a new party. So are some other groups. I have had experience of this in the left. They all want us to drop everything and “Unite” around their diktat and latest short lived groups and parties.
The SNP have recruited 16,000 since Thursday and will go on.
Tommy Sheridan says we should all unite around the SNO for Indoendence in today’s Herald.
SOME, not all in these interest groups spent more time demonising Alex Salmond and Tommy Sheridan for their own reasons. Whoever succeeds Alex Salmond will face the same.
(looks like there’s two alistair’s on here now..)
Surely no one thinks that the SNP are really going to change their name ? They’ve just almos doubled in size in the last 4 days – why would they do that.
The whole debate about one banner/coalition for the next GE election needs to be about a banner for “the movement” and not to set up some new party. There are loads of folk who will never vote for the SNP (name change or not). We need to show that it is a multi-party collective of both political and non-political groupings (e.g. Business for Scotland, National Collective, etc) and then you might have a chance of winning the labour seats. Some of them have massive majorities and SNP have no chance of winning on their own. You may also have the weird effect of Tory voters tactically voting for Labour to keep out any pro independence candidates as well. The other lot are not daft ….!
SLP (Scottish Labour Party) was the name of the party founded by Jim Sillars in 1976.
It’s a pity that JS never kept the copyright, therefby preventing London Labour from pinching it, and freeing it up for Labour for Indy to use, if they desire to start an autonomous Labour Party in the near future.
How about:
The Independent Labour Party?
I’m still scunnered. I honestly feel like I’m in a foreign land.
The name should be The Scottish Independence Party.
msean says:
“Call it simply Independence. Everytime an opponent says its name they hammer hame yer message, simples.”
Whateffer. It has to be agreed at he same time as we choose the new leader and give their right wing. Ann Boak and other Labour Nationalist numpties and even the Nazi Saluting LOL have the cheek to equate Scottish Nationalism with Nazis.
Guys! Move on. Onward and upward.
I have put forward to stu the idea of a little red book. This would list each no msp with their lies false promises and incompetence. Ie why brown flogged the gold. Get them through every letter box in the land. Let’s hold them all to account and put them out of office. I would contribute financially for this.
We all ready have the vast amount of the information on the site all ready.
link to theguardian.com
“He admitted that the final polls showing a brief yes lead and then a very tight advantage to no had made him nervous. But as in Quebec, the no campaign made a stronger offer of new powers at the last stage, enough to cement their lead and too late to allow the yes campaign to respond.
Yes policy pledges and tactics, such the allegations that Scotland’s NHS was under threat, used by Alex Salmond, the first minister and Scottish National party leader, were “a momentum of vapours”, Peter said.”
Peter and the City make a lot of money out of Scotland but the 55 like it that way.
I would like to fly the idea of a Scottish Government in Exile located in Paris for example. Would could create a virtual debating chamber, elect members and have online debates. We could organise international sanctions against Westminster goods, services etc until they recognise the legitimate claim of the Scottish People to self-determination.
So now the Labour Party have an “on line /twitter” request to SAVE the N.H.S.!!, so it is o.k. For them to high light the Consevitives distraction of the N.H.S. , but when it was the S.N.P. And the ” Yes ” do so it was scaremongering !!, and they wonder why we will never give up.
Glad to hear you are mobile again Maria. We can meet up again if you like but not this week anyway, we have, what is they call it, oh yes a wedding to go to Dan Suff. 😉
With all this noise Labour are now making about all their supporters who voted YES to come back “home” is it me or does anyone else think Labour are bricking it BIG time? 😛
75% lowest in the country
I was disappointed with the Glasgow turnout also.
And the small scale of the YES win there, compared to the mood on the streets.
Unfortunately, I don’t think the big Celtic Euro game on TV helped, or the overcast weather on the day.
I was chapping up voters in the evening, and there were plenty of houses with the game on.
“Aye, we’re going to vote later” was the reply a few times.
By the time the game was over it was dark outside. That combined with a few drinks would have kept many indoors.
Don’t know how much difference it would have made, but it certainly didn’t help. If we even get another chance it has to be in a month with long summer nights.
Tîm Criced i Gymru
Far be it from me to defend anyone at the BBC but the Green Party increase, based on the figures you quote is 150% compared with the 68% increase for the SNP, so on that narrow point, I think Campbell is right to say that the Greens’ increase is more remarkable.
I think you’ve misunderstood Tim.
The Greens have picked up 3,000 new members to add to the 2,000 members they already had. This gives them 5,000 members in total now. If my maths is any good this is a 150% rise in membership for the Greens. 😉
Call it simply Independence. Everytime an opponent says its name they hammer hame yer message,simples.