Ten Years Asleep
Exactly a decade ago today, on 11 August 2014, the Wee Blue Book was released.
This was where things stood at that moment in time.
One month after the WBB, that 20-point gap was down, like-for-like, to two points.
(Or five or four, depending which polls you believed.)
The No lead (which had been solidly in double figures for most of the preceding three years, and as high as 30 points just a year earlier, in August 2013) never got higher than five points again in the feverish week leading up to the vote, when the expected loss-of-nerve effect took the margin momentarily back to 10.
(In all of 2014, the average No lead pre-WBB was 11.53%. Post-WBB it was 4%.)
Since then, though, we’ve gone nowhere.
The last dozen polls show an average No lead of 3.5 points, just where it was a week before the indyref. We don’t need to revisit all the events of the last decade that should have shifted that dial, but didn’t as the the SNP leadership dithered and equivocated and stalled and retreated, time and time again.
We’re just here to make the point that not once in those 10 years did anyone in the SNP ask us for advice on how to persuade anyone.
The 800,000 copies of the WBB that were put into circulation – one for every five voters in every corner of Scotland – coincided with an 18-point shift in the polls in one month, and not one single time did anyone in the SNP go “Hey, maybe these guys have got something that trying to win voters round with free iPads and pictures of rosy-cheeked babies inexplicably failed to achieve”.
(We try not to dwell on what could have been achieved if just a fraction of the money wasted on garbage literature from Yes Scotland had instead been spent printing and distributing more WBBs, because it’s too depressing. But YS and SNP staff were busy actively trying to keep the WBB out of Yes hubs.)
As readers will know, the exact opposite happened. In fact the SNP went out of its way to attack our website and myself personally, teaming up with Unionists and the media to smear us, to get our Twitter account banned and to make reading Wings, let alone publicising it, an expulsion offence.
And not just us, of course. The SNP jealously attacked anyone of any degree of standing in the independence movement who wasn’t in the party – you know the list of names by heart as well as we do – in order to obsessively control the movement for themselves. And given a 10-year free run, how much progress did they make?
We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: they’ve had their time. They blew it, and they blew it so badly that many of us – tragically including Iain Lawson of Yours For Scotland, who died suddenly this week – now have no realistic hope of seeing independence in their lifetimes.
This weekend we heard that very senior figures in the party are once again – incredibly – spinning loyal supporters the line that they have a “secret plan”. (This one has only three points, not 11.)
We’re not even going to insult your intelligence by going into the laughable detail of it (SPOILER: it involves a “convention” of the same collection of useless pontificating tossers who’ve been bumping their gums at each other self-importantly since 2014 to no effect whatsoever), because 10 years of your time wasted is more than enough.
The fight for independence cannot even seriously begin again until the SNP are the cold ashes of a footnote in history. They are far beyond the hope of salvation now. Sometimes even the biggest and once-all-powerful machine is so rusted and rotten through that there’s no point trying to fix it and no sane alternative to scrapping it, clearing the ground and starting again.
And we’re sorry, but we’re going to keep saying it until everyone gets it. Because as we learned 10 years ago, it’s only when people listen to Wings that anything changes.
Spot on Stu.
The SNP won’t ever deviate from their disastrous course until they are totally wiped out at Holyrood in 2026.
Only then have we any chance of furthering out cause.
Sad but relevant that the image of ‘The Craig’ being destroyed is in the blog, one of Iain Lawson’s hardest battles was trying to keep it open.
What is worse is that in holyrood, because of dhondt, what the SNP lose on the constituency they will gain back on the list; the gravy bus continues.
The middle class pulled the handbrake hard on the independence wagon, just as it was getting up to speed – “this far and no more” (and replaced it with the ugly diversions of their new found religion – woke-puritanism); think of all the extra layers of bureaucracy, and sweet jobs, the parliament and attending infrastructure need, which is great, but actually going for indy is much too dangerous; actually taking on the British state – you might get your head kicked in, and even if you win, then you have to create a new country – are you up to it? Looking at the mediocrity of holyrood, I doubt it.
And the whole of Edinburgh is “doing really well” anyway (if you can ignore the fact it’s a building site, impassable by car) because of the “trickle down” economics being pursued. It’s like being inside the castle walls in the middle ages, there is protection and more wealth and comfort than being some poor peasant, out in the fields, never mind a hunted rebel in the forest. Edinburgh has been removed from Scotland, it connects via wormhole to the London-Oxford-Cambridge “golden triangle”.
The numbers are bad for us, demographics I mean. It has to move to a different phase, or just die entirely.
They disgust me, the middle class fake nats – right now everyone is having a massive virtue signalling circle wank about fascism and “the far right”, about which they understand nothing.
I’m sorry to hear of Iain’s passing. That man put his heart and soul into the cause of independence. He’s worth a million or more of the SNP’s numpties.
.Mark Twain said : “It’s Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.”
That people continued voting Labour for close on 100 yrs after it became clear that they were not the vehicle that was going to transfer power and wealth from the Haves to the Have Nots and have continued to do so 20 odd years after they deleted their intention to just that, from their constitution. – Is proof enough that he was right.
Your the SNP are Chocolate Tea Pots – We must start again from scratch – Has been tried often and with little or no success. But if something is not done soon, The Scotland our children and grandchidren will inherit, will not be worth having,
What we need is :
A single umbrella organisation, standing for the Holyrood Regional List.
One Pledge. This Parliament alone, is authorised to exersise the sovereign will of the People of Scotland
One Aim, To acheive a majority of the popular vote.
One Purpose, All members elected will strive to ensure by all parliamentery means possible that the Holyrood Parliament aknowledges and complies with the mandate the people have given it and proceedes with the retrieval of the powere currently held elsewhere.
Possible outcomes :
We succeed in mobilising the, plethora of Non SNP independence groups, the 750,000 dissillusioned Yes’ers who have forsaken the SNP and undermine SNP exeptionalism to the extent that they come on board, effectivelly turning the clock back to before SNP1&2. Which would smash the door to freedom right off it’s hinges.
We do not gather enough momentum to deter the SNP Bosses from “toughing it out”. We can then with some justification (in the eyes of Joe public), denounce said SNP Bosses as “The Traitors who sold out the Patriot Game”. Without a quid pro quo, the number of independence supporters who will vote SNP 1 will be reduced. Anything better than 5% on the list should give us a few voices in Holyrood. If the SNP need to win List seats to remain major players , they will have been the architects and demolition contractors of their own demise. And a great deal of people who voted SNP will be very dissapointed but most of them will still think they did the “right” thing.
Three point plan? ‘Now, we are getting three people each. The more people that get involved, the more who are investing, the more money we’re all going to make. It’s not a pyramid scheme, it is a… it’s not even a scheme per se, it’s… [Jim draws a triangle around Michael’s diagram] … I have to go make a call.’
Ten years of MPA, grandstanding over COVID , missing every Westminster open goal and sending the breathless-incompetent-one down to the (so called) Supreme Court in London to beg a lesson on constitutional matters..
Then came the full on gender crap!
I’ve often wondered what that that picture actually meant; the one a few years ago of TRAs with placards to Sturgeon saying “we helped you, now you help us”?
Maybe just coincidence but that was not long after the SNPs failed attempted defenestration of Alex Salmond?
Something is badly wrong with the SNP now.
It’s gone beyond the closed ranks of a party/ tribe getting unremitting grief from British MSM.
Truth will out in the end, always does no matter how hard they try to rewrite history to suit their autobiographies..
Dave M
Ignored
says:
11 August, 2024 at 1:22 am
I’m sorry to hear of Iain’s passing..
Damn right.Upset to read that just now.
As confused says these arseholes know the system and know that the hierarchy will still get their seats at the trough on the list,they are counting on the voters being sickened at the thought of having to vote for Labour, and the voters will be even more reluctant due to kid STARVERS policies now they are being implemented and the pre election LIES are being exposed
The only way to DESTROY the current snp is to NOT vote at all,the GE proved that voting for other parties to defeat the snp only resulted in LIEBOUR gaining an unassailable lead in seats which allowed them to run a dictatorship through the US and Isra hel’s main man starmer
IF the scum nonce party survive HR 2026 they will be ecstatic, they are gorging at the trough with NO responsibilities to independence and NO responsibilities to Scotland or Scots, they can sit in HR and spout eternal shite with NO intention of rocking the boat or challenging anything LIEBOUR does
Young Lochinvar
Ignored
says:
11 August, 2024 at 3:23 am
I’ve often wondered what that that picture actually meant; the one a few years ago of TRAs with placards to Sturgeon saying “we helped you, now you help us”?
I never saw that one. Can you mind where it was published?
I’m a Unionist. That’s out of the way.
Despite our obvious difference, I do admire the way this site goes after and takes down the liars and charlatans out there.
If the Left are calling you a fascist, you must be doing something right.
Spot on. It’s not just the SNP the whole Scottish system has been exposed and dragged into the filth by a handful of deviants. I disagree about footnotes. A warning from history to be taught to children about the danger of not knowing your own sex and forcing debauchery on others. What happens when we glorify idiots and Hate an English nothingness. Scots have hopefully learned from this dark chapter in the struggle for freedom.
Let not the historians footnote the fact that the Old guard SNP who knew what was going down with sick Sturgeon queer theory.Took the money and ran. All retired on the same fucking day.
This analysis is spot on. I too can remember just how aggressively the SNP attacked wings and Stuart. I also recall many reports of ‘yes’ team volunteers’ getting told NOT to help distribute the wee blue book.
Now, here in 2024, I hear pretendy independence politicians saying things like, ‘people are not interested in independence right now‘, or ‘the public want to focus on other things‘. What those same politicians have not grasped (but folk like Salmond or Rev stu and others did) is that YOU have to make the case for independence. Folk have forgotten how to do that – how to link it to all other policies. It is like left wing MPs saying the public won’t vote for left wing policies, and that is true – UNLESS YOU MAKE THE CASE FOR THEM.
When Alex Salmond was first minister, in every speech, in every interview, in every discussion, he ALWAYS made the connection with Scottish independence. No matter the subject. And he did it because in Scotland’s case it is true, things will NEVER get better with England running our country as an after-thought – an ‘irritation’ at the bottom of that day’s agenda. No matter the subject, unemployment, welfare, health, economic development, personal prosperity, education, the list goes on and on.
In each and every case Scotland running Scotland, instead of being treated like an annoying jobby on the shoe of
‘britin’England, things would be better.Way too often I see supposedly pro independence SNP MPs and MSPs, shy away from even mentioning independence, like they are feart to even say it, for fear of criticism. That is why I call them cowards, that is why I say they have no burning urgent desire for independence, because if they did, they would not be so reluctant to mention it.
This idiocy started under Sturgeon. All it took was a Tory to accuse her of talking about nothing but independence, and what did she do? Did she hit back by saying ‘because independence is urgent’, or ‘because Scotland cannot grow without independence’? Ho, what she did from that point on was meekly tell everyone that she ‘didn’t talk about independence all the time’, thereby doing EXACTLY what unionists had always hoped would happen. She and her cabal literally stopped talking about independence. Doh!
If you want folk to vote for independence, you need to hammer the message home, that Scotland NEEDS independence as a matter of some urgency. Alex Salmond gets it, Stuart Campbell gets it, but the SNP don’t. The current SNP think they can just sit back and somehow ‘magically’ folk will start agreeing with independence – or even care.
Not only is the stance of the current SNP (and it goes all the way to the top) politically naive, it is ridiculously stupid.
If you want independence, you need to make the case. Always.
As things stand, I agree with Rev STU, the SNP are indeed now the biggest obstacle to Scottish independence. A bunch of cowardly, careerist shysters, each and every one.
The appetite amongst Yes activists in those weeks for The Wee Blue Book was enormous, absolutely insatiable. Everybody wanted bags full.
It was by far the most wanted item for street stalls and canvassers.
I helped move lots of them around and get them out in the right places. There’s still many of those activists out there, but sadly far too many of them have passed on in these ten years.
The Wee Blue Book contributed enormously in those last weeks of the campaign, helping to galvanise and convince so many who were unsure to vote Yes. It also – which has never been admitted – helped get the overwhelming raft of SNP MPs elected just a few months later.
With thanks to Stu for maintaining this place for all these years.
I will add my sadness at the news the other night of the death of Iain Lawson. Iain was a gentleman who poured his energy and resources into fighting the good fight. He was a plain talker and a pleasure to hear or read. His bona fides in the campaign for Independence can never be questioned. A genuine decent human being who cared and was prepared to do something.
“The SNP jealously attacked anyone of any degree of standing in the independence movement who wasn’t in the party”
Some of the worst attacks were actually on pro Indy people who were in the party, eg Alex and Joanna. It was being genuinely pro Indy, talented and posing any threat to the U.K. that got you attacked. It’s amazing how close we came in 2014, given how many of those around Yes Scotland were probably out to undermine independence, as they’ve shown since.
A wasted decade indeed. As ever Rev Stu is on point. He was one of the few who realised early on that the SNP are now the problem, not the solution.
There is no path to independence that involved the SNP: it has to be at the very least thoroughly reformed and bridled to exclude those responsible for wasting so many golden opportunities to advance the cause, or (preferably) simply destroyed just as the Irish destroyed the IPP after 1918.
The current situation is beyond dispiriting now. Any new drive for independence is going to take years, and every year will sadly see the passing of more pro-independence people like Iain Lawson who will never see our collective dream realised.
It will be interesting to see how the usual suspects in here who are in thrall to the magical thinking of Salvo/Liberation Scotland react to the reports above of the SNPs new super duper “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Independence” Convention plans.
Doubtless it’s a different sort of Convention, one you don’t know that goes to different school, right…? Beware of delusional snake-oil sales people touting their silver bullet cure alls and short cuts to independence.
Graham Campbell. Now there is a name of an absolutely nasty waste of space.
Recognisable by his garish attire, dreadlocks and rastafarian look, he is the stereotypical wacko bigot that has destroyed the SNP.
Utterly pro BAME he abuses, along with others all semblance of democratic process. Folks like him have the Humza Yousaf ideology of Black, Black, Black, or other non white white white, half breed, quarter breed attitude where they go to the top of selection lists to the exclusion of every one else.
No wonder this wokey wacko likes secret cliques of control.
But this type of waster and his ilk have had their day. The voters won’t rid, and they are getting rid. No clearer example of that than Cambell’s bidey in partner, and indeed others of the wokey wacko me a coloured one at that too all losing there seats at the last General election.
So yes, making mention of the frankly divisive bambo sambo wokey wacko clique so extant in Campbell reinforces why the SNP are finished electorally.
Confused at 12.52am says ‘And the whole of Edinburgh is “doing really well” . . .Edinburgh has been removed from Scotland, it connects via wormhole to the London-Oxford-Cambridge “golden triangle”.’
For example, see the stratospheric prices for one night’s accommodation being quoted by the Telegraph’s “Destination Expert”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/scotland/edinburgh/articles/where-to-stay-in-edinburgh-hotels-by-district/
Not seen that quote by grifter extraordinaire – G Campbell – previously , but it perfectly encapsulates the fckn horror that the SNP has become . The cunt is ONLY where he is , ie living comfortably off the Public teat because of his colour – another vacuous ” Diversity Hire “.
“In ” Group exclusivity – ” I can’t divulge …..” . Check
Referencing ” approved ” names to reinforce * right-on * credentials – ” my own position accords with …..( diz it , aye ? ) . Check
Lip-serving reified abstractions like they are direct revelation from the Political Godhead – ” Alt-Right ” ” Fascistic ” ” Left social democratic ” ” civic nationalist ” OR ( seems we have a choice ) ” socialist politics ” : he obviously dines in the same Word Salad gaff as what could be the ultimate Diversity Hire ( unfucknbelievably ) + the ultimate MSM rebranding campaign – Camel.A.Harris . Check .
Authoritarian exercise of power to exclude ,banish , vilify anyone deemed an ” outsider ” , ie outside the Elite Group’s control – ” should be made incompatible with ….” . Check
What has Campbell achieved in his position as GCC Councillor ?
What has he done FOR GLASGOW . As far as I can tell – fuck all of any real value to the * ordinary * residents of that city .
Granted , he’s probably no worse in this regard that his equivalents in his own and other Parties .
Much as doubtless the Prog Supplicants would frame my comments as – well , y’know the formulas by now – the fact of the matter is ,I couldn’t give a fuck what peoples’ skin-colour , racial/ethnic/religious backgrounds etc are : I refer to him solely because he epitomises the abysmal , virtue-signalling , utterly useless ( other than as ” career advancement ” opportunity ) failure and parasite on people’s hopes n dreams the SNP has become .
A WBB was passed over the counter of a takeaway joint while I was waiting for RIC canvassing to start to help persuade their chef who was the sole holdout on Yes.
To distribute my copies before the vote I took to leaving them on bus shelter seats. They all went. I’m in Dundee, the Yes City. To go from that environment to the loss was hard.
To see the SNP throw all that energy, enthusiasm, experience, nous away because Sturgeon had impostor syndrome has made me very angry.
WBB was a godsend.
* Andy Ellis?: ?11 August, 2024 at 8:27 am
?”…sadly see the passing of more pro-independence people like Iain Lawson… the usual suspects in here who are in thrall to the magical thinking of Salvo/Liberation Scotland…”==============
Either this poster is confused or I am.
Iain Lawson was a champion and major promoter of Salvo/Liberation.
From one side of his mouth Mr Ellis mourns the man while from the other ridicules the political strategy dearest to him.
Sad news.
RIP Iain Lawson.
Another Scottish patriot and tireless fighter for Scotland who has died before the dream of independence was realised.
I well remember the enthusiasm with which we grabbed copies of the WBB on streetstalls. I always had at least one when I went out ready to pull out when I talked to people in shops and buses. It was simple, it was clear, it was atttactive and it was true. It was all ignored by the SNP.
And now another Independence supporter has gone. Iain Lawson deserves respect not only because he maintained a pro-Independence website of good quality and variety but he also published articles which he footnoted that he did not agree because he acknowledged that there are different opinions on how to achieve Independence. That showed confidence in the basic right to Scottish Independence. He will be missed.
@Cynicus 9.23am
What a strange wee world you must live in. It’s quite possible to mourn the passing of an individual both in its own terms and as an exemplar of another person who didn’t live to see our goal achieved, and to have principled disagreements with them about how the goal is reached.
Perhaps we’re just not all as narrow minded as you?
Before our Yes group had hard copies of the Wee Blue Book, I had downloaded it and printed out copies. When we were out chapping at folk’s doors, if I thought they were wavering or hadn’t really thought about independence, I’d give them a copy. I’m sure it convinced many of them to vote Yes. Never met Iain Lawson but read his blogs and would like to add my condolences to his family. Sadly, I feel I’m at an age I’ll not see independence either. Can only hope my children and grandchildren do.
I am very sad and shocked to read the news that Iain Lawson has passed. My thoughts are with his family to whom I send my deepest condolences.
Iain was an exceptional man and will be very much missed. I looked forward every day to reading his blog. Like this one, Iain’s blog represented for me a glimpse of hope when I struggled to come to terms with the scale of the betrayal inflicted by the SNP on the yes movement and Scotland itself.
Today I am feeling sadness and anger in equal measure. Sadness because the yes movement has lost another unconditional pro-independence fighter in Iain. Anger because I cannot accept that Iain and many others before him, despite their huge efforts and despite their being so close to it, could not see their country free. And all because a bunch of disgusting betrayers have abused the power we gave them by using it to thwart every opportunity to deliver Scotland’s independence we have had.
Under the political fraud Sturgeon, the SNP was never pursuing independence. We need to come to terms with it. She was using it as a tool to stop it. When you look retrospectively, that is exactly what you see. Her every move, her every “mistake” only make any sense when you look at them from the perspective of her working to stop independence.
Because of this, it is unsurprising that this political fraud or her minions never sought to positively engage with this blog or sought the Rev’s advice on what to do. Instead, they worked to destroy and silence the most influential blog in Scotland’s politics. Again, that only makes sense if what they were pursuing was to stop independence and to disenfranchise pro-independence supporters.
I know it is very difficult and for many it will be impossible. But we need to forget about the SNP and move on. The SNP is gone. It was dealt a death blow the minute the political fraud Sturgeon took over and announced that a vote for the SNP was no longer a vote for independence. Since then, that political construct has become a wrecking ball which has sided with labour/been taken over by labour to thwart independence.
We have to accept that the SNP has become the largest obstacle in the way of Scotland’s independence and that is now irreversible. But, like with other big obstacles in the path, the easiest thing is not to waste time, energy and resources attempting to change it or even move it out of the way. The easiest thing is to simply bypass it. Leave it aside to rot.
In my opinion, if Alba, ISP or any other pro-indy political party want to succeed in 2026, they will have to go against the SNP. Trying to embrace it, despite its 10 years’ record of deliberately thwarting independence, is unpalatable to many independence supporters and will do nothing other than putting them off and make them question until what point those parties seek independence if they are still trying to work with a party who is thwarting independence.
10 years of betrayal cannot simply be ignored. They must be forever remembered as the SNP’s epitaph.
To me, this site was invaluable to have counter points to unionist arguments.
I think the value was in being able to have these points in our own conversations with our friends and family
Many interesting comments this morning. They above got me thinking ‘red sunset’
The result of the 2015 election was quite astonishing!
All I can say at moment is ‘Happy Birthday Wee Blue Book & Many Happy Returns’.
Any cake involved or just loads of sweeties?
The IndyRef documentary is to be shown again on the BBC in which Rory Bremner talks about the ‘Wee Blue Book’. ‘The Wee Blue Book’ being mention on the BBC is quite something is it not. That must be in ‘The Wee Blue Book’s’ scrapbook. Any mention of it in parliament? I bet there was and it could perhaps be said that ‘The Vow’ came about due to ‘The Wee Blue Book’.
What are ‘The Wee Blue Book’s’ pronouns. Is it OK if I use she/her.
Why no upper case in name ‘red sunset’? Ach just ignore that I think that discussion is done & dusted but who knows?
Iain Lawson spoke the truth, was open to ideas from others, and literally walked the walk.
Can you imagine ANY of the current SNP MPs or MSPs, NEC or staffers etc etc ever considering, let alone doing, a march from Ravenscraig to London on behalf of Scotland and the workforce? For Grangemouth right now it would be useful, wouldn’t it.
What Iain Lawson and Salvo were doing was removing the SNP and Holyrood parliament as head of the independence for Scotland as they had realised that that route had long since been jepordised and knobbled leaving independence supporters floundering with no apparent leadership.
They realised that the ( Westminster version) of a Scottish parliament and all that were employed therein was set up to stymie and act as gate keepers to prevent the independence of Scotland movement should it become to close.
There are no registered “Scottish Tory party” in Holyrood and the same goes for the others including Labour and SNP.
The veil of the Scottish parliament is that it was placed in Scotland and the word Scotland was used to hang that veil on,
Iain lawson and Salvo had turned their attention to the more legal construction of the treaty of union and all its ramifications to present day.
He had realised that the Scottish begging bowl direction for Scotlands people and the constant situtation of always being in a perpetual state of suspension until the next carrot dangling elections was not the way forward and had never worked.
He and Salvo had also realised that protesting and marching was not covered by MSM, and yet at the same time could lead to dangerous outcomes for the people of Scotland on the street being infiltrated to stir up violent troubles.
And judging by the new governance of Britain, it seems allto easy to for infiltration and trouble makers to turn a quiet protest into a frenzied riot that is quickly subdued by long term prison sentences.
This is not the way forward for the independence of Scotland and its people,
There are many many legal avenues with anomallies and conundrums some of which Salvo and Iain lawson together had realised.
And in this the unfinished quest of Iain lawson and Salvo I believe lies an opportunity for Scotland to peacefully find its independence,
It has not gone unnoticed that union favouring people quickly try to dismiss this route, whilst they are very busy trying to secure a new treaty with Scotland through their own branch office of Westminster parliament sent to Scotland under their own legislation and Statues of their (Scotland) Act.
This would be a treaty between the parliament in England and the parliament England sent to Scotland,
A win win for both of the Westminster parliaments
And herein is just a wee reminder that the Devolved Scottish parliament breaches the 1707 political Parliamentary union between Scotland and England.
Ruby
Screigh or screagh does not mean “scratch”. It means shriek or scream.
Another aside. it seems to me – I may be wrang- that from time to time there is some coat trailing on the btl.
True or not, coat trailing was said to take place at Donnybrook fair in Ireland. Those seeking a quarrel, a fight or to display would walk around trailing a coat. Challenges would be made: “Who’ll step on the tail of me coat? Who’ll say boo?
Donnybrook is now a noun as well as place name and means a fight or stramash.
Cynicus,
Indeed, and you will be attacked for noticing and verbally pointing that anomally out, no doubt.
I didn’t know Iain Lawson very well or much about Salvo.
The sudden death of Iain Lawson served for me as what I believe is called ‘a momento mori’ No point in getting upset or too uptight about anything as you could drop dead before tea-time.
I did know Ellis got chucked off Iain Lawson’s site & has been ragin’ ever since.
I am not a religious person but maybe for this occasion I will be Buddhist and wish Iain Lawson a fortunate re-birth. From what I’ve been reading about him he definitely had a lot of very good karma.
What Bill Cowan said right at the start, worth repeating.
It will be fun watching the nuSNP implode when the list places come up. Grifter Campbell will be top of a list somewhere.
So, I think a helluva lot of folk might have difficulty voting SNP2, and not just because it let in loads of yoon MSPs last time.
Not voting gifts the parliament to the yoons – So I suggest a vote for Alba or ISP (If we don’t get ‘Scotland United’ organized ).
If you really want independence I strongly suggest you join Alba or ISP. A huge increase in their memberships could be the start of something big.
Sarah,
Iain lawson was to be commended for not being narrow minded, he was alway open to new ideas and avenues,
He had a long journey through the independence movement and was able to use common sense and analysis to evalulate what was and was not working
My belated and sincere condolences to his family and friends.
I was shocked, this morning, to read about the death of Iain Lawson. An unsung patriot, with whom I didn’t always agree, but without ever doubting the man’s dedication and generosity of spirit.
Then the independence movement needs to get together. How about it Wings, Salvo, Peter Bell, weegingerdog, scotgoespop, Talking up Scotland, Alba and sorry I’ve probably missed some. A diverse group that represents different elements of the independence movement.
Antoine Roquentin
Ignored
says:
11 August, 2024 at 10:47 am
‘I was shocked, this morning, to read about the death of Iain Lawson. An unsung patriot, with whom I didn’t always agree, but without ever doubting the man’s dedication and generosity of spirit.’
Spot on, Antoine Roquentin. An unsung patriot, dedication (particularly to the cause of Scottish Independence) and generosity.
A big loss.
Andy Ellis says: ?
11 August, 2024 at 9:36 am?
@Cynicus 9.23am
?What a strange wee world you must live in. It’s quite possible to mourn the passing of an individual both in its own terms and as an exemplar of another person who didn’t live to see our goal achieved, and to have principled disagreements with them about how the goal is reached.?
Perhaps we’re just not all as narrow minded as you???
========
And perhaps the rest of us would have mourned the loss in one post while voicing disagreement elsewhere. Time and place.
I have seen you attract comment for many things on here. But having good taste ir decency not among them.
“Then the independence movement needs to get together. How about it Wings, Salvo, Peter Bell, weegingerdog, scotgoespop, Talking up Scotland”
LOLZ.
I very much Iain Lawson would want to be the reason people on here were yelling at each other on a Sunday morning. That’s enough.
6 years ago i thought you were nuts Stu.
I met a policeman who told me the dirt in Nicola, even then i doubted what I heard.
As I watch their list of failed policies and ineptitude develop I realised you were right and what I heard was true.
They used her to plant the most useless numskulls in key position.
For a moment I thought Humza might break free. Then I thought Swinney might change things, sadly he seems to be up to his neck in the Salmond cover up.
“I thought ‘Ane Simmers’ sold knickers on Princes Street.
Mornin’, Hilda. How are you today?
I can never use ‘Ane Simmer’ in a poem again without thinking of risqué lingerie – ever.
Sorry, Rab. Thay’ll be nae mair ‘ane simmer’ references in ony o’ ma poems.
I see you’ve raised the P(eeing) competition height to four – and you’ve the cheek to call me competitive tae.
I’m busy today – sermon’s on the mount to preach – so I’ll respond to your comment on the previous thread later.
@Rev Stu 11.41pm
LOLZ.
Indeed. Odd isn’t it? Apparently we’ve all got to “wheesht for indy” and we’re not allowed to point out that it’s possible to disagree about the means, even if we share the same ends.
Now where have I heard that one before.
These chumps are unbelievable. No wonder indy is dead in the water with the usual suspects in here splatter gunning their unreason BTL on the movement’s most popular site.
James Che
11 August, 2024 at 10:27 am
Thank you for your concern, James. But the prospect fills me with less than dread.
Being attacked by Mr Ellis is like being savaged by a dead sheep,
I had no intention of commenting here again until I read the very last few words;
“it’s only when people listen to Wings that anything changes.”
We are in agreement. So, what are we waiting for?
The Wings Party.
It’s a no-brainer. Scotland’s very own anti-woke “take back control” party.
Yes, we talked about it before. If things were different back then, they’re sure as fuck different now. Scottish politics is apocalyptic today.
If not Stuart Campbell, who? Point and I’ll go pester them. But there is nobody else.
And you even have the most-visited Scottish politics website at your disposal to provide air support.
You’d ripple the shit out of the whole system. Even unionists dig you nowadays.
The last ten years are only wasted if nothing comes of them. It’s the irredeemably wasted lives that should depress and motivate us.
Thank you Stu for this article. Sadly all true. I am so sad about Iain Lawson.
I started following his blog a couple of years ago and also support Salvo. This year I started creating five YouTube videos related to Salvo’s message. Iain was very helpful to me in providing constructive criticism. He too realised after his many years as an activist in the SNP, even serving on its NEC that they were a mess particularly on independence and the damage NS’s leadership did to democracy in the party. He criticised the party under NS and even tried to get the members and branches to rebel.
Like many I used his blog to keep me up to date with all things Salvo. A new communication conduit will now be required.
Rest in peace Iain.
The three prongs of delusion
– Failure creates loyalty
“One more try, this time it’ll work”
One trick ponies will amuse once and should become tedious in the long run, but we know how attractive the underdog proposition is. You want David to win against Goliath.
This is where the balance of “one trick pony” vs. “underdog” weighs on people that decide to stay loyal or not.
This is sadly akin to the definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.
That’s also the carrot in the famous trope of it and the stick.
– Hardship creates bonds
“We’re going through bad times, we must stick together to protect each other”
This is the main source of “othering” tactics and is prodromic to the creation of a cult, that can be attached to a personality or an ideal, to protect the “oppressed” group from the enemy.
Initialization rituals are also part of this aspect of blind delusional attachment.
Having to go through some difficult and sometimes degrading experiences to be accepted in the group is such a feat that invariably creates strong dependency.
Here you also see the stick opposite to the carrot in the unspoken risk of heavy ostracism and open threats if you leave the cult.
– Sunken cost fallacy
“We’ve been through so much, we can’t throw away everything and start from scratch”
Similarly to the failure/loyalty scenario, rejecting the idea that the vector, vehicle or tool that brought you here is no longer fit for the next steps falls into this realm.
Changing horse midway is heresy for some people, while the experts know that to get to destination faster you need a fresh horse. Ask a 19th century Pony Express.
Another metaphor? To make a table you need a chainsaw to fell the tree, a sawmill to cut it in planks, a table saw to cut the planks into the right size pieces, then you need glue, clamps, planers and more, up to the smallest chisel to give your table the finest of details.
Right tool at the right time.
Musical tribute to Iain Lawson…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdiGq7GWQ4
I disagree that the SNP are the biggest obstacle to Independence.
The voters of Scotland are the biggest obstacle.
And as the Scots make up an overwhelming majority of the voters of Scotland, ergo, it’s the Scots who are the biggest obstacle.
I fully accept that it’s impossible for any of the usual suspects to believe this. But if we Scots really wanted to be Independent, we would be. If we Scots truly desired leaders to take us to Independence, these leaders would arise. The policies would be developed. We would support them, come what may, never mind the personal cost.
That’s the way humans work, how we’ve always worked, throughout history. Usually, throughout history, against orders of magnitude greater difficulties than anything we face.
You’ll have to claim we Scots aren’t human to deny my point. Ach, maybe you will.
@Hatuey 11:58
You’re right.
But not even Rev Stu can do it when the majority support is just not there.
Anybody claiming that majority support is there is delusional.
Speaking for myself, I’m prepared to take a percentage loss in living standards for Indy, but I suspect most Scots won’t. Of course, the delusionists will deny we will lose out – in fact, they’ll claim we’ll be quids in.
Naw. The memory of the post-Brexit disappointment is too raw for canny Scots to fall for that one again.
But I think many Scots would trust Rev Stu, after all the negotiations were completed, and the bills and compromises settled, to give us a truthful statement of what we could expect in an Independent Scotland.
The WBB was what convinced me that you had something different from all the other fuckwits pontificating online at the time (and now).
That’s why I’ve helped fund your work over the last decade even though I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of your opinions 🙂
However at this stage I don’t think it really matters what anyone says or does, indyref2 isn’t going to happen this side of 2040.
The SNP isn’t salvageable as there’s still a multitude of skeletons waiting to pop out of cupboards if they were ever to actually try for independence. The Murrells saw to that & COPFS enforce omerta for now.
So the SNP has to become irrelevant and some other political force has to take the lead. Hell that’s 15 years right there 🙁
That’s assuming Starmer doesn’t attempt to force through a “catalonia-type” change to the law, which he’ll probably try if he gets a second term & SLAB/Tories have a majority in Holyrood.
@Hatey 12.26pm
But not even Rev Stu can do it when the majority support is just not there.
Agreed. It’s also quite an ask given Rev Stu’s previous experiences, and the fate of others who have stuck their heads above the parapet, to expect him to lead the charge when all the evidence is that so many are scunnered with the current political outlook in Scotland.
I do seem to remember that Alex Salmond made much the same point as yours before #indyref1 with respect to the majority already being there if only enough of the swing voters could be convinced they would be better off.
That’s why the fudge about currency, and the weird decision not have two prong campaign which emphasised both the positives of independence AND the negatives of the union and particularly its poor economic performance, was such a disappointment and such a key part of the loss in 2014.
If there’s any light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps it is that the cost/benefit analysis of the risks of indy versus the certainties of the “broad shoulders of the union” have changed pretty decisively since 2014 given brexit, Trussonomics and the determination of the Red Tories to carry on much as before.
tsk – sermons…not sermon’s, fool.
It was probably, THE most significant tool in the 2014 campaign, only to be followed by a bunch of the most insignificant tools sent to WM in 2015
Why? BTW Have you spoken to Dan lately?
Ruby Sunday @10:29am
“…and wish Iain Lawson a fortunate re-birth”
That is a lovely sentiment to express.
Thanks for the link Ian Brotherhood.
Condolences to Iain’s family. A great loss.
So shocked and saddened to hear of Iain Lawson’s passing. My heartfelt condolences to his family. It was through Iain’s website that I became aware of Salvo, and joined Salvo, and his loss to the independence movement is immeasurable. Rest in peace, Iain, and may your spirit live on.
Northcode @ 12.42.
You had me concerned at the previous post, I had feared you had joined the ubiquitous modern trend of pluralising your nouns by adding ‘s rather than just s.
Right up there with using possessive “ it’s “ instead of “ its’ “.
Leaving school at 15 years of age with no educational qualifications I still shudder inwardly yet at the thought of the tirade of abuse (and condign punishment) I would have received in the 1950s for such errors.
The Scottish Rip van Winkel has been slumbering for more than three centuries.
High time for a rude awakening, a «douche écossaise» maybe, the exhilarating hot/cold treatment formerly administered in mental institutions when all else failed.
Sven
“You had me concerned at the previous post”
No need for concern, Sven. I have been known to make the occasional typo – hard to believe as that might be.
If I spot them, and sometimes I don’t, I, too, get flashbacks to the harsh punishments dealt out at school for failing to use the grammar of a foreign language correctly.
And, if I may say so, I consider your use of that ‘foreign’ language to be exemplary.
I’ve done so elsewhere , but I’d like add to the condolences here regarding the passing of another good man & Independence stalwart
Iain Lawson .
We didn’t always agree on ” things ” , but we managed to disagree civilly and I respected his positions whether we agreed on them or not , knowing they were genuinely held .We agreed on 90% of issues .
His contribution to the Independence cause was/is immense , both through his own integrity & his YFS site , and will leave a lacuna which will be hard to fill .
As the Anarchists say in these situations …
REST IN POWER . Mr Iain Lawson .
Robert Hughes
Ignored
says:
11 August, 2024 at 1:47 pm
I’ve done so elsewhere , but I’d like add to the condolences here regarding the passing of another good man & Independence stalwart
Iain Lawson .
I never met him but had bags of respect for him. A real loss to the cause of Scottish Independence Robert. We’ll feel it.
@ScottieDog (1.17) –
You’re welcome.
😉
I thought I had expressed my condolences on the passing of Iain Lawson, but on reviewing comments here it seems that I haven’t.
It was through Alf Baird’s papers published on Iain Lawson’s website ,’Yours For Scotland’, that I first became aware of him and his contribution to the Scottish independence movement.
I didn’t know Iain personally, but I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to find out a little about him at least through his great contribution to the independence movement .
My sympathy goes out to his family and friends who will surely miss him.
Ruby, in a comment she made here earlier, said she wished Iain Lawson a fortunate rebirth – as Buddhists do when one of theirs passes.
I think it’s one of the nicest sentiments that can be expressed for those who have passed, I wished it for my parents on their passing, and I echo Ruby’s sentiment.
I couldn’t agree more – the SNP are now a major roadblock to dissolving this illegal union – and they must be removed from office at every turn.
The SNP are the most dangerous kind of enemy to the cause – for some folk are still gullible enough, to believe that the SNP wants an indy Scotland – when the SNP has absolutely no intentions of making any real attempt to deliver it.
Come 2026 – SNP and Green MSPs MUST be removed from office – the Tories/Labour and the Lib/Dems are also treacherous b*stards – and are branch offices of their London HQ’s – their remit to keep Scotland down and held firmly in the illegal union.
I don’t where we go from here with who to elect (ISP more like) in 2026 – but I know it none of the above – Sturgeon the Judas, and her clique, really done a number on us – and we’ll be playing catchup, for it, for years to come.
Northcode @ 13.43.
I fear I can claim no credit for my grammar or syntax, Northy. As, far from being a foreign language, English is to me my native tongue. Faroese or mayhap even the language of the Gael would more accurately reflect my forebears.
I wish you an attentive congregation for your sermons, and may many more of your hearers put your guidance into practise than ever did those who heard that first mountain sermon.
I wish to publically express my massive respect for Iain Lawson. As the Irish would say “Tá sé anois ar shlí na fírinne — ar dheis Dé go raibh sé.”
We get an early glimpse of the strength and merit of this exceptional man in an online (vimeo) documentary from 1986:
THE STEEL MEN VS THE IRON LADY – GARTCOSH TO LONDON
“On the 3rd of January 1986, 12 men set off to march from Gartcosh Finishing Mill to London to take a reinstated case for retention of the mill to Maggie Thatcher. The mill was the finishing end of the Ravenscraig Steelworks and had been marked for closure by March 1986. The unions and workers knew that if the Gartcosh mill closed it would make their own fight weaker by not having a mill to finish their products. They knew it would not be long before the Conservative government would come for the rest of the Scottish steelworks. These men, led by Ravenscraig Shop Steward convener Tommy Brennan, knew they had little more than 2 weeks to get themselves together and march after the new year. They gathered representatives from all unions, political parties, churches, and industries. Come the morning of the 3rd of January 1986, they were seen off from the Gartcosh works to cover the 475 miles, on foot, to London. It would take them 10 days in the worst winter imaginable. This is their story.”
Hopefully this vimeo documentary will come up easily enough if a search is made for the above title. I hesitate to provide the actual link here in case my entire comment is a casualty of some filter settings technicality. But I will try to give the actual link via a short separate post.
Iain Lawson’s film début? —
THE STEEL MEN VS THE IRON LADY – GARTCOSH TO LONDON
https://vimeo.com/tacedorris/thesteelmen
Sven
As usual, Sven, you respond to my facetiousness appropriately and with eloquence.
RIP Iain, both of us are so sad at the loss of Iain. Iain wasn’t just talking about Independence he was making and actively securing his goals with his involvement with Salvo. Honestly we’re totally sad, but I’m all so concerned at the loss of Ian’s contribution he brought for Scotland freedom.
If someone sets up a fund to buy Ian a wreath we’ll donate he deserves the biggest wreath Scotland has.
john main Of scotland; “But not even Rev Stu can do it when the majority support is just not there.”
That’s quite a revealing little statement.
The fact is support has been about 50/50 for years now, since Brexit basically. Even the most impartial assessment would acknowledge that and in doing so acknowledge that it could go either way. You’re not acknowledging it though, and Ellis agrees with your suspiciously negative assessment.
Of course, a less negative assessment would take account of the unending blanket propaganda constantly in play when it comes to Scotland. We really are quite possibly the most propagandised population on earth, with 99% of news sources in the hands of forces that (like you two) are negative about the prospects for independence.
There’s a very good scientific reason that support for independence increased in the run up to the vote in 2014. Theres nothing supernatural or miraculous involved. The reason is that people were exposed to the truth, through things like the Wee Blue Book, and the propaganda channels were forced to pay some lip service to the arguments on both sides.
This sort of thing comes up a lot these days.
News Flash: Propaganda works. It works with regards to pandemics, vaccines, wars, Scottish independence, the Middle East, and everything else.
It’s very easy to imagine support for independence reaching 65 to 70% in conditions such as those that existed prior to the 2014 referendum, given where it seems to have settled now, if we were ever to arrange another referendum.
Everything I’ve said above is kids’ stuff that anyone who knows anything about politics would be expected to understand. It’s interesting that it needs to be explained to a couple of stalwarts on here.
Hatuey @ 16.24.
In addition to your observations, I’d suggest that the good governance of Scotland with Mr Salmond as First Minister also played a very great part in reassuring the dubious that, with a competent administration in place, there is no reason this could not be a fine, independent country.
Indeed, the very fact that support for independence under Mr Salmond rose from around 28% to very nearly half of the electorate who voted in 2014 despite the disadvantages you cite being ranged against them amply demonstrates why we have suffered under such incompetence ever since.
Are you a fat lazy useless parasite.?
Yes! Then a job as a Glasgow City councillor might be the one for you.
Do you have no moral compass and would sell your granny?
Yes! Then just apply and leave the rest to us. Don’t worry about the Law we’ll protect you.
Excellent pension plan available. Even if you fuck everything up the money will be there for you. Just ask fatty.
You can get the mass idiot to believe anything with just a few well timed key words.
Dr Goebbels.
@Hatuey 4.24pm
You’re not acknowledging it though, and Ellis agrees with your suspiciously negative assessment.
Mr McHateface can no doubt speak for himself, but in my case this is utter bullshit. I’ve never opined that it couldn’t go either way, or that since brexit the pro/anti split hasn’t been around 50/50.
You’re entitled to your own opinions champ, but not to your own class of facts, or to misrepresent the options of others, particularly when they’re here to call you out for your flagrant misrepresentations!
People love to bump their gums about the biased MSM and how “we wuz robbed”, but how then are we to account for the fact that between 2012 and 2014 the % of people in favour of independence rose from the high 20’s %, to 45% and has stayed there – or indeed higher – ever since?
It will appear to most reasonable people to be what it is: a sad cop out for a people that simply lack the political balls to change their own circumstances for the better because they’re too “frit” of the potential negative consequences, and how it might impact on their living standards.
Building a majority for independence doesn’t rest solely on a binary referendum. Newsflash: it never has!
There are multiple paths to independence, but they’re not all equally likely to produce positive results, not are they all as likely to be successful in the short to medium term.
More people may have learned to think for themselves between 2012 and 2014 and been exposed to views and sources of news and argument that they’d never previously encountered, but they were still embedded in a relentlessly hostile, pro-unionist environment with zero pro-independence presence in the MSM.
We can’t keep using claimed propaganda and an ideologically hostile MSM as a fig leaf to excuse the collective lack of political balls of the Scottish demos.
The idea that a serial failure in the Cassandra stakes has anything worthwhile to teach people who live in the real world anything of note is as risible as the pretensions of most of the usual suspects and moonhowlers in here to any relevance or intellectual coherence.
A bit of advice for Elon Musky;
You are what we call one of the big boys, main player, major dude, man in the comfy chair.
So why the fuck are you arguing with a useless nobody?
The problem for Scotland is that if any person wether Alex Salmond or anyone else makes even a hint at gong towards independence whilst swearing a oath of allegiance to the Crown to enter The devolved Scottish parliament they can be done for treason,
That is why no one party pushes further than a referendum for Scotland, with the result that our votes are not counted at home polling station but whisked away to be counted out of the public eye,
Carried miles through the night often in the dark under aTory Franchise in 2014,.
With Boris later on, on TV stating that there was interference in the 2014 Scottish referendum, I believe the blame for the “wrong doing” was directed at ruskies, but no re- run of the refeendum vote required for a Fair Voting system is needed in Scotland. It just the Scots after all.
So this required Oath swearing in, to the Crown of England in the devolved Scottish parliament from England is a bit of a problem for Sovereign Scots while under the (Claim of Right ) and is one of those anomalies, especially as the “Claim of Right” offered the Scottish crown to England (note, not theTerritory or kingdom,) which made a Scotland a republic Country.
And Westminster acknowledges the Claim of Right for Scotland and Scots.and yet without it their is no parliamentary union at all in and of Great Britain.
Although that political union of parliaments ended when the Sovereign parliament of England since 1689) put the Scottish parliament under dissolution in 1707 from Westminster parliament,
Scotland retained its territory and kingdom and became a Republic of Scotland without a crown and without a monarch.
I’m slow. I did wonder why Marie Black suddenly announced she had ADHD. Of course, she wants a list seat!!!! How many more grifters will invent disabilities that they don’t have to either name or prove??
Is Swinney still alive? No one said.
The Fringe is a place for failed politicians.
as a change from engrossing physics texts, i read how the british conquered india….
dish out loads of dosh, divide and conquer…exactly how the english got scotland….there is always someone prepared to be «rogered» for €$¥
the indians, or the self styled «élite» thereof were venal « suckers » as were those proud scots.
in both cases the shit will ineluctably float.
little changes in either country…..yawn.
“But not even Rev Stu can do it when the majority support is just not there.”
Ellis responds with; “Agreed.”
I’m not saying you’re both wrong. I’m saying you’re both stupid, although I don’t rule anything out.
Because even if you think it’s true that “majority support is just not there”, the gapingly obvious fact is that it wouldn’t take much more than a nudge to establish majority support.
Suggesting otherwise is suspiciously negative, as I said.
As for propaganda, if controlling the narrative doesn’t matter, why is the British State so scared of people hearing alternative views? Propaganda levels are off the scale right now, on a range of subjects, from the war in the east to vaccine injuries, Scottish independence, the Middle East, transgenderism, and now even the riots.
My reference to propaganda earlier wasn’t limited to the outcome of the referendum. The unseen hands of the British State are at work 24/7, making sure support for independence stays at manageable levels. If they didn’t take such a keen interest in controlling the flow of information, support for independence would probably rise quickly and dramatically.
I am, of course, guessing. We don’t know what would happen if the British State stopped controlling the narrative on independence because they’ve been doing it diligently and systematically since the mid 1970s (since oil became a thing). In the run up to the referendum of 2014, people were exposed to the arguments for independence, many of them for the first time, and that’s why support for Indy increased.
(Incidentally, that mechanism of elections triggering more open and honest debate is well understood in political science… I read about it 30 years ago. Basically, when you get into the nuts and bolts of it, the MSM is more or less forced to allow some slack on issues that are usually tightly controlled and people are typically more engaged and open to ideas…)
Again, nothing controversial or even debatable about anything I’ve said above — everybody here would agree, so much so that it basically goes without saying; and the facts are there for all to see.
Odd, then, that I need to spell any of this out to a couple of pro-Indy comrades like Ellis and John Main.
Still too many of a certain generation around and hanging off every word the MSM spout.
Sorry but it’s true. Time will change things. Hopefully we can still access reality by then though.
1984 is an instruction manual to some it seems.
.
@Hatuey 8.19am
Speaking of stupid….
It’s a simple fact that the majority isn’t (currently) there. All the polling evidence shows this to be the case. Rev Stu’s OP shows it. So there is that. It may indeed be true that only a small nudge is necessary, but that rather presupposes a campaign of some sort to energise the potential swing voters, who realistically are currently “soft No” types, who are persuadable but currently unconvinced.
I’ve never suggested otherwise, so it’s neither suspicious, nor negative – unless of course you’re being purposefully disingenuous.
From memory Mr Main has said in the past he’s persuadable but not a convinced Yes supporter. That’s of a piece with your general powers of both observation and (over) confident predictions which are characterised by both their total confidence and crushing error.
You perhaps speak for a section of folk, particularly some of the moonhowlers in here, but certainly not the majority, still less everybody. That’s as laughable as most of the rest of your output.
Seeing all of the Rev’s retweets of Andy Ellis tweets is illuminating. Apart from Independence I am realizing I have nothing in coming with this guy. Palestine etc… Can’t stand Craig Murray anymore either. lol.
The WBB was a game changer in 2014 but it’s quite shocking how the SNP tried to undermine it. Of course, with Sturgeon and ex-BBC Blair Jenkins in charge of the official campaign, it’s hardly surprising it was pathetic. Who could forget the former’s infamous “halt order” on getting the vote out on the afternoon of 18th September, when we were all diverted instead to standing outside polling stations to smile inanely at the approaching voters and “prepare for an historic evening”.
The Norwegians refer to their unfortunate union with Denmark as their “four hundred year sleep”. They then entered into another useless union with Sweden and only got out from under in 1905. Since then it’s been downhill all the way with a colossal oil fund and a prosperous, happy and healthy
population, despite the attempts of Globalists to drag it down with their insane policies.
At this rate it’ll be at least an other hundred years for Scotland to struggle free, (thanks mainly to the prefidy of the SNP) when the very concept of Scotland may well be more and more difficult to sustain.
How shameful and telling that it took Citizen Campbell to draw together a few salient facts and arguments in a little booklet which was apparently beyond the abilities of the huge number of MSM journalists working in the prodigious newspaper industry of just ten years ago.
Even when we lost in 2014, I thought we would win in a few years because Salmond had normalised the idea of independence but then She Who Must Be Obeyed hoofed the colossally golden opportunity of Brexit into touch in 2016 we should all have seen her for what she was: someone to rival Benedict Arnold in the Inventory of Infamy.
Thanks anyway, Mr C. The WBB was serious voodoo. No wonder the grifters hated it (and you).
And immediately Ellis is back to paltering;
“It’s a simple fact that the majority isn’t (currently) there.”
And that is far from the fact that you think it is. Support has been oscillating around the 50% mark for some time, give or take a few percentage points. Some polls absolutely have shown it above 50% at times, which would constitute “majority support”.
You agreed that “not even Rev Stu can do it when the majority support is just not there.” If that isn’t suspiciously negative when support has been oscillating around 50%, then words have no meaning.
I think it would be better for everybody if you resolved your own contradictions, don’t you?
Should I prepare to be called a “usual suspect” and told I’m insane or something?
Zzzzzzzzzz
I am absolutely gutted to hear that Iain Lawson has died. I wondered why I had not received an email recently of his wonderful blog.
The deep state will be relieved. The work he did with Salvo was so important and hopefully the campaign for the decolonisation of Scotland will continue as at the moment, it seems the only avenue that will get Scotland independence or even another referendum.
My heart breaks for Alex Salmond, and also for the Rev.
So much hard work, so much knowledge & expertise…
Alex’s story is one of the biggest travesties & travesties I’ve ever known in my lifetime, or will ever know.
the worst aspect of this spectacle is how those who killed indy fill their pockets while dancing on its grave and proclaiming a second coming …
– something bad should happen to them; nothing physical, just to be exposed and live out your long life, in reduced circumstances, the target of derision and contempt.
Make it blunt – Scotland has the setup to become a decent interpolation of Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, albeit with its own twist and national culture; now you will never have that. Once you are rich, you can fix almost any problem you have; being controlled by a hostile foreign elite who hate you, asking for their charity, you have no hope. We live for them, not ourselves.
It is sad for those who worked for the dream then passed before it could be achieved. Ordinary men and women, clasping Alex’s hand in 2014.
Iain Lawson was definitely a “good guy” and not a “wank” according to the universally correct chewin-the-fat scale.
the picture of the iconic cooling towers of ravenscraig is appropriate for many reasons … grangemouth next, and what else – why not shutdown all farming and food production, make everything imported from england – totally destroy Scotland as viable entity. You think they don’t think of these things?
The young will grow up never realising what was lost, what could have been – but at least you can call yourself a nonbinary and go to the gay disco.
It’s time to welcome Elon Musk to Scotland. After he responded to Humza Yousless calling him the most “dangerous man, and a dangerous race baiter.”
Humza is a piece of human filth. I hope Elon straps him to a rocket and sends him into Deep Space.
And call the film – illegal Alien!
Ahaha.
Also watched the prism show.
Rest in peace to Iain Lawson. Yours for Scotland. Independence gets further away when the movement loses the strong political giants.
Iain Lawson is a huge loss because he didn’t just talk, he acted. He worked for independence, and believed in what he was doing. He saw Estonia achieve independence, and helped that country stand on its own two feet. (I believe that) he knew to his bones that what Estonia did, Scotland could do also. I certainly do. His nous and connections will be sorely missed.
BTL is a talking shop. It frequently features a few named rats fighting in a sack. Fighting a propaganda war, perhaps, but that is the best light to cast upon it.
The WBB was action taken, not talk in a pub or on a forum. Its contents are still true today. The message is still there to be spread, with 10 years of lessons to be added.
I wish you all well.
“And immediately Ellis is back to paltering”
It’s a source of constant amazement to me how many people appear to think “no personal abuse” mean, “except you, of course, you can fire away”. Pre-mod.
Iain Lawson is a huge loss to the independence cause because he didn’t just talk, he acted. He worked for independence, and had a track record of results. He saw Estonia gain its independence, and helped that small country stand on its own two feet. (I believe that) he knew to his bones that Scotland could do the same.
BTL is a talking shop. A few named rats fighting in a sack, scoring points in what might at best be be a propaganda war, but essentially doing nothing, as far as I or any other observer can see.
The WBB was action taken, not talk in a pub or on a forum. Its message is still true, with ten years of hard lessons and brutal examples to be added. English votes for English laws, remember? The first of many post vote insults. Those should be collected together as fuel for a new fire.
RIP Mr. Lawson. The work will go on.
I wish you all well.
Apologies for the double post.
If you continue to support the SNP I suggest that you contact John Swinney to inform him that they have learned nothing from the heavy defeat at westminster,they must repeal the GRRB and clear out its supporters,expel Sturgeon and Mathieson and anything else you disagree with I have and am waiting for a reply.
Could somebody persuade Alex Salmond to stand in Sturgeons seat at the Next Holyrood election as long as she and her Thomas Hamilton lookalike husband are not in jail.
Hatuey
Support has been oscillating around the 50% mark for some time
More fantasy.
Stu Campbell cites 12 different polls on Indy, and not one of them show Indy with even 50%.
Average out the “Yes” vote in the 12 polls, and it shows “Yes” at 44%–the same percentage it got in the 2014 Referendum.
The polls basically show that Indy would lose again, by the same margin, were it put to a vote again.
Mark Beggan says:
11 August, 2024 at 6:14 pm
Is Swinney still alive? No one said.
===========
Good question. Here’s another.
If somebody says, “Swinney’s dead.”, the first reaction should be: how can they tell?
@ Peter McAvoy: “…contact John Swinney and tell him..”
Bear in mind that Swinney has been at the top of the party throughout and has gone along with all the shenanigans.
He has no fire in his belly for Scotland.
Just read failed MP Tommy Sheppard’s arrogant article in the National where he displays exactly the failure to understand why he lost and the SNP are finished.
Apparently all that is needed is to educate the Refusniks to come back into the SNP fold, vote for him and he promises that independence will come.
Sorry to go on about this like a bloody parrot but more than anything women’s rights are important to me.
The GRRB has been blocked by Westminster. Perhaps you mean the GRA 2004. Many people get the GRA 2004 and the GRRB Scotland bill mixed up.
We definitely need the repeal of the GRA 2004 without that there can be no women’s rights.
It may come as a shock to you but there are many supporters of the GRRB & GRA posting on this forum.
The topic of women’s rights known BTL as ‘gender pish’ is a taboo subject BTL on Wings.
My big disappoint with Alba, Alex Salmond, Neale Hanvey, Joanne Cherry is they make no mention of the repeal of the GRA 2004.
Well said, Mia. So depressingly, infuriatingly true:
“. . it is unsurprising that this political fraud [Sturgeon] or her minions never sought to positively engage with this blog or sought the Rev’s advice on what to do. Instead, they worked to destroy and silence the most influential blog in Scotland’s politics. Again, that only makes sense if what they were pursuing was to stop independence and to disenfranchise pro-independence supporters”
You will struggle to find a more outspoken or longstanding critic of Sturgeon’s SNP than me, but what I find most depressing is the so called resilience of the Independence Campaign takes comfort that support remains bouyant (just) around 50%, but langushes without leadership, direction or even the camaraderie of 2014. What are we waiting for? Westminster to reschedule our revolution in it’s 2026 diary? Holyrood to appoint the next “Independence” Gauleiter?
Yes, Sturgeon put a hole in the bottom of the boat, but Sturgeon’s Office, the whole position of First Minister, is a post created and codified by Westminster and their colonial Scotland Act.
That a tre@cherous and incompetent lackey of Westminster’s Vichy Scottish Assembly can single-handedly derail out Nation’s Independence Juggernaut does not reflect well on our collective resolve to actually be an Independent Nation. Does it?
Even the Parcel O’ Rogues in 1707 had to flee angry mobs intent on a lynching, whereas the delinquent fkers in the SNP play musical chairs to be Puppet-In-Chief, and insist Scotland’s betrayal, depopulation and economic decline is nothing to do with them… and we, like the supine cattle we are, let the bastards live.
They moan and whine about the beastly Westminster, but they’re fking job, the job we gave them, was to get us out of UK Government so we didn’t see our Nation plundered by the very colonial exploitation they now sit and whine about. Did the troughing c*nts think we were bluffing?
Judging by the speed most of Scotland has put away the Claymores and apparently gone back to bed, it would seem bluffing was exactly what we were doing.
Scotland the Brave? Scotland the fking pushover more like.
If you want to thrive as a Scot in the modern world, save up your pennies for your one-way Quantas ticket. Fuk off and abandon the place like the rest of your generation.
Unfortunately for us, stupid old c*nts like me just don’t have it in us to do that. You won’t find Scotland on the other side of the world. If you don’t defend it, soon, you won’t find it at all.
It seems that a fair number of SNP politicians threw in the towel after 2015 and stood down. Maybe the good ones left after realising that the SNP had changed it’s primary objective (at best to devolution) and there was no hope of stopping that. Maybe they were the first sign that an independence focused SNP had died.
Now, many years later the political means of pushing for independence is stalled and likely to be for who knows how long. So for the time being it seems to me that the only issue worth pushing is the question of how Scotland can become independent. It has to be a democratic vote, otherwise other countries won’t validate it. Asking Westminster for permission is dumb beyond words. So two key questions should to be concentrated on –
1. Is the UK Treaty of Union one that Scotland could choose to leave at any time? (the answer is always yes of course it is)
2. How then does this choice happen (silence or waffling).
Since the first question has already been answered, the focus should be on the second one. Regardless of who would be the political lead party in the future, or how good booklets are at explaining why independence is the best way forward for Scotland, until the issue of how to establish a democratic vote on independence, called whenever circumstances within Scotland warrant it, then it’ll just be more standing still. That’s what happens when you play cricket.
The question of the democratic nature of the UK union is it’s biggest weakness, so that’s where the light needs to be relentlessly shone by asking the only question that matters right now. How does Scotland democratically get to decide on independence? If unclear and indefinite undemocratic stalling remain the only responses, then eventually it’d be time to move to the international options.
The question about independence needs to change from being solely a question about independence itself, to be come a question on whether Scotland should be capable of democratically voting for or against it at a time of it’s choosing. Only if that is clarified, one way or another, can the issue of independence itself be progressed constructively.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-strangulation-of-scotland/
I remember a sad tale in the press a few years ago about a female killer whale which pushed her dead calf around the sea for weeks, before eventually accepting the situation for what it was and letting it go.
I wonder how much longer the Yes movement will spend in a similar state of denial where the SNP is concerned.
Time to let go…
The Wee blue book was a game changer. I still have a couple of copies somewhere. Ridiculous that some folk tried to discourage people from distributing it. Alarm bells should have been ringing at that. I still think the SNP had infiltrators aboard whose mission was to prevent indy winning.
@ Breeks
Indeed , B .
Too many are waiting on …..
The Second Coming of Alex Salmond
Various Legal actions involving the aforementioned A.S , ScotGov , Ms Blah , Mr Blah & assorted Alphablahties
The next NEXT , eg Holyweird Elections 26/30/34/ad infinitum
The * conversion * of x1000s * New Scots *
A unification of the hopelessly fragmented ” Independence Movement ” by people who were responsible for that fragmentation and whose every word/deed adds to it .
Godot’s maw .
Anything ” novel ” is drowned in cold water at birth ; any suggestion there could be extra-Parliamentary strategies that could further our cause is shot-down by arrows with ” ye cannae dae ” that written on them .
The idea that our own history , specifically the history of how our country came to in – something called – ” The Union ” dismissed out-of-hand & scorned as ” ancient guff ”
Yet , distractions of all kinds are embraced , eg….
AUOB cancelling the arranged march in September order to act-out Spanish Civil War fantasies – NO PASARAN , YA BASS .
Two of ALBA’S well kent faces standing in English seats to protest events ” elsewhere ” .
That kind of focus on ” Elsewhere ” is leading us Nowhere
” the idea that our history ….” could be relevant to our aspiration and form part of our strategy
Breaks 12:07
Spot on. I had not picked up on the Alba two standing in England. Why!!
The only good horizon I see is Salvo and the need to fund the ISP. The Alba and SNP parties adhere to Westminster rules so must be ignored.
Iain Lawson over the last couple of years had some very informative blog articles on the disease within his old party. Their decline saddened him.
Stupid is as stupid does.
So here are a few facts of reality.to decide if it is a legal binding treaty or not.
1) No where. In any 25 articles or in the terms of agreement to the treaty of union between Scotland and England by Commissioners or the two parliaments respectively in 1706/1707 does it say or (state) that the only the Scots people need a majority of Votes and would be required to hold a Scottish referendum.
As the law Society of Scotland points out, that just because Westminster parliament has altered or changed the text over the years that did not mean that Westminster parliament had the legal authority to do so with regards treaties.
Westminster parliament cannot add on or detract terms, agreements and sub- section articles to please Westminster parliament of Great- Britain.
Especially and precisely because (Scotland) is not ‘in a treaty of union’ with (The Westminster Parliament of Great- Britain.)
Scotland was only in a 1707 treaty of union with the parliament of England,
Which Scotland never entered into their domestic “Scots law.”
Fact.
Stupid is as stupid does,
Is it a binding treaty or not.
No where, in the terms and agreements between two sets of commissioners or in the 25 articles of the 1706 1707 treaty of union agreed that was ratified by both the parliament of England and the parliament of Scotland respectively does it State that the new Westminster parliament of Great- Britain can pass an Act [ TO EXTEND the kingdom of England and the laws of England “into” the Kingdom of Scotland]
Fact,
Stupid is as stupid does.
Is the treaty of union binding or not.
No where in the terms of agreements made by the two sets of commissioners on Behalf of Scotland and England or in the 25 articles of the 1706 / 1707 Treaty of union does it State that the new parliament of Great- Britain will legally be allowed pass an Act for a Devolved parliament to be sent to Scotland as a second parliament of Great- Britain.
The 1706 / 1707 International Treaty of union actual has that [there will be Only “One parliament of Great- Britain] here after.”
Fact.
So sorry to hear about Iain’s passing. A straight talker and Salvo leader, will be sorely missed. Ten years of SNP inaction, deflection, deception and utter deceit. Here we are and it’s time they disappear. Let’s keep fighting for Iain, and for ourselves.
One day we might see Scotland as a country on an internet country dropdown list, or see Scotland as a country in the Olympics – which I have not watched this time around. We have to dream, we have to hope, and we have to take action while we still draw a breath. RIP Iain Lawson.
See Tommy Shepherd gas a 4 point plan!!!!
Of course the SNP MPs will continue to draw their Westminster salary while they think about it.
Come back with, “we take no salary until indy is achieved” and i will think about voting for you.
10 years of f… all
No more Tommy
James Che @ 12:59 pm
“The 1706 / 1707 International Treaty of union actual has that [there will be Only “One parliament of Great- Britain] here after.””
Indeed, and there has been so many violations to the ToU we should wonder why the Court of Session has not tore it apart and stuffed it into the rubbish bin of imperial hoaxes; were we not now more sure that Scotland’s institutions are also colonial in nature and in terms of their ‘values’.
And my apologies, I meant to get back to you about the related matter.
Thank F*ck the Je-0cid-e games are over (aka Olympic Games) I never watched a second of it – then again I never watch them ever – but this time around, it was imperative that not one second of the Je-0ci-de Games were taken in.
On the issue of being able to hold a vote on independence within the limitations of being part of the UK, if the UK has already given their final word on this, then progressing what should be a democratic right, will need to be done by international means.
‘The Scottish parliament cannot hold a second independence referendum without Westminster approval, the supreme court has ruled, in a unanimous judgment.’
https://archive.ph/9CytS
Mind you, the case for a referendum on independence wasn’t exactly pushed for in a serious manner.
‘The question was referred to the court by Scotland’s lord advocate, Dorothy Bain KC. Bain argued that the referendum bill was within Holyrood’s powers because the vote would merely be consultative and would not have any immediate consequences.’
Either way it appears that self determination now rests within international means.
‘Articles 1 and 2 of the Charter of the United Nations outline the purposes and principles of the United Nations.’
‘Article 1 (2) establishes that one of the main purposes of the United Nations, and thus the Security Council, is to develop friendly international relations based on respect for the “principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples”.’
https://main.un.org/securitycouncil/en/content/purposes-and-principles-un-chapter-i-un-charter
Quite hilarious to be put on pre-mod for badgering Ellis. Of all the characters on here, he’s the one that exercises my capacity for restraint the most.
Not that it matters since I have run out of things to say anyway.
Oh well.
Can we not pre-mod “Ellis” for a couple weeks?
Gie everyone on here a well deserved rest.
Just asking, like.
Well the N-eo-Na-zi regime in U–krai-ne finally did it – they set fire to the ZNPP using two-kamikaze drones – the ZNPP is the largest nuclear power station in Europe -and if the N-e-o-Na-zi’s manage to damage it’s nuclear core (fires and still ongoing) Europe will suffer for it.
These people have been conspicuous by their absence – and tacitness on the matter.
“Rushhia’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova condemned the strike by U-k-rai-nian forces with the rhetorical question: “Where is Rafael Grossi and the entire IAEA?”
I was deeply sorry to hear of Iain Lawson’s passing. A good man who worked hard for independence. He didn’t live to see it because of a group of greedy self serving scumbags. None of them were or are fit to breathe the same air as Iain.
I used to think that Nicola Sturgeon was working for Westminster. Now I’ve come to believe that she was working for herself. And she didn’t work alone. Even in 2014 she and her cronies were busy sabotaging the independence campaign. The gravy train took priority every time.
In the book The Art of War on page one paragraph one line one.. Don’t invade Russia.
“Can we not pre-mod “Ellis” for a couple weeks?“
That one has got me beat. Two Tier Stu? Is Ellis Rev’s BTL sock puppet character to say all the things he wants to say himself without being too… paltering. lol.
If calling someone paltering is personal abuse on Ellis I have some comments Rev might want to read from golden boy.
Useless has the same problem as Tony Blair they can’t get into the White Man’s club.
Aren’t Scottish Labour being very grovellingly thankful on the online media. Must have cost a fortune.
Alf Baird.
Notto worry about not getting back on other subject as I have been extremely busy looking after my lovely spouse this week, he has been so poorly, for so so long. That the only thing holding him together is his skin,
It sounds an awful thing to say, but anything else would be a deceitful lie. And there is no point in lying to myself.
Luckily recently we have both been able approach and talk about his illness openly and he accepts that I will take care of him in every way possible and I will not shove just him into a hospital or care home.
Hubby now bathed and clean bedding in new jimjams on with extra fleecy blanket on and dosing off to sleep in front oftele,
So no offence taken Alf if you could not get back to me as I was having similar problems keeping up with everyone on Wings this last week:-)
Back on topic, The reality with any contractual Treaty wether a scam or real is that the terms and agreements are just as binding.
And the other aspect is that it is just as important what the treaty coes not specfy as what it coes specify.
One of the important issues regards the treaty of union between the Scottish parliament and the parliament of England is that it has gone, it has become obsolete and voided.
The Old 1707 parliament of Scotland never entered into a treaty of union in 1706 / 1707 with the parliament of Great- Britain.
But it was the parliament of Great Britain that placed the 1707 Scottish parliament under dissolution in England in 1707 prior to it being set into Scots domestic law,
The treaty itself did not convert it into Acts of parliament,
For a better understanding, The Law Society of Scotland explains this much better than I can in a hurry.
It was wrote in 2007 by mr Walker.
But there are also many topics covering the treaty of union that are left unsaid, some of which I noted.
And of course all the surrounding issues of what happens or becomes of a Country when it offers its crown but not its Country, territory or people to another monarch prior to any (uniting by a treaty) of union,
And that the English act of Settlement was a Act that agreed the Scottish monarch was now to become by line of descent the monarch to the throne of England.
Which Does point to the fact that Englands parliament also thought their queen of England was not mutual Queen of The kingdom of Scotland.
As the Westminster parliament Extended the kingdom of England into Scotland in 1707.after the treaty of union.
So the two kingdoms were not in a personal Union under one Crown,
What was not specifically said.in the Claim of Right Declaration.
Scotland hereby offers its kingdom to England,
What was not done.
England never took the offer of the Crown of Scotland and never incorporated it into any or english Coronation of their monarchs,
Because that would return the rule of the Scottish Crown and Monarch to Be over England.once more.
So not a sheared monarch or kingdom, during the whole progress the treaty of union from start to end,
There are so many twists and turns, manipulations, word engineering and so much propaganda in relation to the facts surround the treaty of union and a shared monarch of great Britain at the time of the treaty,
And the treaty of union of the united kindoms ended in 1800 – 1801,
Well done, James Che.
I spent a long time looking after a father with Alzheimer’s. By far the hardest work I have ever done. The most demanding and the most rewarding. Well done. Best of luck to you both.
gm.
Sure it was on here if you scroll back through many TRA articles.
@Northcode –
If you see this, just to let you know our e-mail’s not ‘sending’ properly but we got your message and the answer is ‘Yes’.
😉
Ellis aka ‘Stu’s Golden Boy’ has been pre-modded in the past. I don’t think Stu has any favourites but what do I know.
Sam,
Thank you for your kind post to my spouse and I, it is difficult emotionally and physically for both of us, although very hard on my hubby as he is still fully aware and and still cracking jokes more Ithink for my benefit than his own. An amazing steadfast and stalwart man.
I can see you have personal experience yourself from you’re comment, and your father would have been not unlike my spouse, it is indeed very difficult, hard work 24/7, but rewarding in the sense that you know you are not just discarding another human being like an old dish cloth, as if they no longer had value,
your father or hubby in my case contributed to society for over A long period of time, made many people smile and listened to those that needed some compassion, and taught many a generation lessons and skills they would need for the rest of their lifes, made people cry and made people think, and financially contributed in taxes and revenues all his working life, looked after others in their life time,
I would like that same respect as all humans deserve, to be valued with compassion and empathy no matter what stage in life we are at or in.
So from those points of view it is very rewarding to look after someone whom always looked out and after others.
Well done Sam for all your hard work, love and long hours in keeping the humanity in human beings. We need more like you.
Although it does scramble my brains sometimes , doing so many things at once 😉
“Electric ‘super highway’ to be built between Scotland and England.”
And do the people of Scotland actually have a say in any of this? This is our resource, our territory, our country!
The people of Scotland should be asked if or how this should be done. Not some English parliament with a false, illegal claim to Scottish land and resources for profit and greed.
So, what have the SNP and all the other so call independence MSP’s and MP’s going to do about it? The silence is deafening!
Folks,its all over. Independence is a dream of a Scotland being run by a competent government with a large growing economy allowing everyone to have a high standard of living with no poverty anywhere. The devolved governments have all shown that they bring nothing to the table apart from grievance and incompetence. The 50% in support of independence is a fiction as the SNP cannot sell any vision of independence that the majority of the Scottish electorate would vote for. I would suggest you all move on and not waste your life supporting a dream that will never happen.
Alf Baird .
I apologise for the tambled rant yesterday,
Usually I am very analytical in thinking when not distracted.
The previous post from myself regards facts regards the treaty of union is perhaps the one I would guide you too.
This is due to my wishing to follow somewhat in the direction of Salvo and Iain Watson, for when all is said and done we can observe in retrospect what has worked and what has not fo forward Scotlands independence.
Politicians in general are gatekeepers, to protect the status quo and their assured continuence for employment, and today they often will join in, in just about any crazy idea or ideology to ensure that they are financially secure, with a good pension. Along with perks of the job.
If politicians were only allowed only a minimum wage there would be a hell o lot less career.politicians, So I personally have little faith that independence for Scotland will come via a politician or through a government department. W
Instead I am more inclined towards the idea that this is up to all of us, the people in Scotland, to do due diligence on our homework, not to organise ourselves into groups to protest, ( easy target for dictorial governance)
But to persist in feeling our way towards a totally new alternative solution.
Scotlands people have never really done this,
We are in as a static position now as they ever were hundreds of years ago. Still looking for a leader to lead us, this is where Scots have always failed.
We do not need to stick our heads above the parapit, nor do we need a Braveheart leader for a cry of battle, , we only need all of us to work, research and educate each other.
I will try to be more analytical in my providing research of records and of information.for corralation and try explain why that record is important to the people of Scotland and why it may be contested without violence,
People will have to put up with my dyslexia an my secondhand crappy internet vehicle,
However here in Scotland I have great faith in how intelligent Scots can be using their brains in place of brawn,
The pen is mightier than the sword,
That is what captured Scotland, let us use it to our best advantage as the key to unlock the chains and doors from being told we are not free to ensuring we become a free nation by using our own Right to self determination.
Waiting on politicians, protests and spaced out elections their is their selected game for us, , and the one in which they automatically undemocratically Thwart us,
We need brains and legal minded people to go a alternate route that Scotland has never gone before,
The right to self determination by our Scottish constitution and by Scots law, using private rights for the “evident utility” of the ( ergh, subjects) of Scotland.
And to access what is left , what has changed , and what is or has been illegal breaches of the fallacious treaty of union by Westminster parliament. And to be able to dissect the truth from fiction in that regard.
For one person a massive task, but all of us together becoming “intelligent Bravehearts” to go down a route the Scottish people have never thought of and unionist minded hope and prey we never do,
@Alan Austin
Foff, troll.
Alan Austin @ 08.33.
And yet, from 2007 until 2014 Scotland was so well administered that support for independence rose from the high twenty percents to heading towards 50%.
During which time the country experienced, in large measure, sound, competent governance.
Anthem,
Alan Austin,
All you have to do, is to realise that the devolved Scottish government in Scotland as a second parliament in Great – Britain has no legal Status as it Breaches one of the most fundamental foundation articles of the treaty of union between Scotland and England.
That it does not hold any “legal Status to pass Scots laws on the people of Scotland” or the territory of the people of Scotland.
Just because the UK parliament of Westminster passed legislation and Statues for the Scotland Act does not mean that the UK Westminster parliament had the legal right to do so under a contractual International treaty of union.
Instead It fundamentally Breaches the treaty of union.
We need to fight trolls with a newly acquired knowledge and facts.
A troll can be told that everyone working in the Devolved Scottish government is in Breach of a fundamental foundation Article of the treaty of union,
Carefully Read the 25 treaty of union Articles (and) the terms of agreement. And you can fight of any troll easily with their own weapons.
This will make it far more easier to steal, what is already being stolen from Scotland – our energy – is their anything left for the English in Scotland to still steal – maybe our water is next.
“OFGEM has approved a £3.4 billion electricity “super highway” between Scotland and England.
The 500 kilometre Eastern Green Link 2 (EGL2) project will stretch from Aberdeenshire to North Yorkshire and transport vast amounts of renewable energy between Scotland and England.
It marks the biggest investment in for electricity transmission infrastructure in the UK.
The joint venture between Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks and National Grid is part of a push to modernise the electricity grid.”
https://archive.is/tG4tp#selection-1763.3-1787.142
Mo-s-sad agent Shi-a Ma-sot said of Angus Robertson that he was someone “we” can work with – that was a few years ago Robertson and the SNP were at it again recently – making secret deals with the monster committing J-en0cide – not in my name.
This lot (SNP) – have and will continue to, blacken Scotland’s name until we get them right out of office.
https://archive.is/CSh0i
James- Following on from that.
I am pretty sure the Ireland Act , prevents any part of the UK from having better trading rights. We know that N Ireland was given exclusive EU trading rights , post Brexit. Thus breaching the Ireland Act. So it seems that Westminster just does as it pleases.
Yet wee meek Scotland ,is afraid to hold it’s own referendum, cause England’s courts said it couldn’t. This is the root cause of our problems. We have no cahonies , and Westminster know that.
Isn’t it ironic that Sturgeon wasted 3 years trying to stop England’s Brexit. Yet N Ireland ended up with a better deal than Scotland. Despite Scotland voting to remain by 62% and N Ireland only by 54%!
That’s just how useless she was. Utterly clueless on strategy.
In response to James Che on the legality of Westminster passing laws for Scotland. Law is based on the written law and precedent. The precedent for the last 300 years is that Westminster passes laws for the UK including Scotland. People looking back at stuff written 300 years ago are fooling themselves believing that it is a legal way forward for independence.
@James Che
Thank you and orra best
Seeing the current treatment of Scott Ritter it really does make me think about the impact of Alex Salmond taking a job at RT back in the day. Working for RT seems to drive these people insane. I think I have maybe underestimated this factor. By doing that AS signaled very clearly that he wasn’t anti-ru$$ian which with hindsight now was the kiss of death.
Legislation gov. UK
Acts of the old Irish parliament > The parliament of Great Britain,
Act of Union (Ireland ) 1800.
1800 chapter 38 40 Geo 3.
The parliaments of Great Britain and Ireland have resolved to concur in measures for unity the two kingdoms:
Whereas in pursuence of His Majesties most gracious recommendation to the two houses of parliament in Great Britain and Ireland respectively, to consider of such measures as might best tend to strengthen and consolidate the connextion between the two kingdoms, The two houses of the parliament of Great Britain and the two houses of the parliament of Ireland, have severally agreed and resolved, That in order to promote and secure the essential interests of Great Britain and Ireland to consolidate the strength, power, and resources of the British Empire, it will be advisable to concur in such measures as best to unite the Two kingdoms of Great Britain into one kingdom in such a manner, and on such terms and conditions as may be established by the Acts of the respective parliaments of Great Britain and Ireland.
Rev, your Wee Blue Book got to Lochbroom, Wester Ross, and the people who organised getting it here and distributing it were very excited with the content – it had everything that was needed. Our district was well-manned and very active with Yessers but having a factual text was very helpful indeed. We ended up in our polling district with 59% Yes.
As for the areas where the SNP were impeding the WBB distribution, if we knew the names then surely they will be some of the infiltrators?
Laws are passed on precedent,
That is the law of England I understand.
Still a reasonable counter argument can be held fot Scottish people not to be under the laws of England as follows.
1:
Westminster parliament states on their parliamentary site for the past number of years to a world wide audience that the Scots were not asked to vote to join the treaty of union, because in all probability they would have voted NO.
Thats over three hundred years of precedent, correct?
And they still have not been asked if they want to join the treaty of union.
So over three hundred and Seventeen precedent years,
THIS IS THE «WHY» OF UNIONISM
https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2024/08/beyond-2030-electricity-grid-consultation-welcomed/
Assets, assets, assets…..
A sovereign Scottish state, or even an over devolved one, is manifestly unthinkable in such a context.
That is manifestly also the British state’s Achilles heel.
Alan Autin.
2:
Scotlands parliament was placed under dissolution in England in 1707,
Thats precedent of the Westminster parliament, Correct?
So whom or which parliament will Westminster parliament or Courts sue if Scotland just walks ?away,
Alan Austen.
3:
Crown Courts.
With Scotland given and offering the Scottish Crown to The king and Queen of England to inheritin line of descent to the throne of England and the kingdom of England.in the Claim of Right.
That left Scotland without a Crown in Scotland.
Making The Sovereign Scots whom had not been invited into a treaty with England, sitting in a Sovereign Republic of Scotland for over three hundred years, that precedent too, correct?
Alan Austin.
4:
With the upper house, the House of Lords from the old parliament of England moving without elections into the new brand named parliament of Great Britain and continuing the english law, the triennial Act for elections over from the parliament of Great Britain.
The parliament of England continued into the parliament of Great Britain, and continues till this day
Thats over three hundred years of Westminster parliament of England precedent, correct?
5:
The Bank of England has remained the Bank of England and not the public bank of Great Britain.
Thats precedent by the laws of the old Westminster parliament of England correct?
Allen Austin
“People looking back at stuff written 300 years ago…..”
—————
Yes I know what you mean, all that Magna Carta Libertatum, Habeas Corpus stuff etc., not forgetting good old Henry VIII and his fiddling with laws.
Old fashioned, out of date, can’t have that stuff cluttering up the modern State.
Britnats like you are pathetic.
“Humza Yousaf has warned that “decades of institutional xenophobia” has caused a rise in hate among Britons towards refugees.”
That’s rich coming from Yousaf – he gave, what must only be described as a racist rant, in the Holyrood chamber that in a predominately white Scotland – that white folk held certain positions within it.
His good buddy Anas Sarwar – who is the branch manager in Scotland of London Labour – all but did the same thing, in our parliaments chamber.
Alan Austin,
Here are laws of precedent for Scots and Scotland.
The Sovereign Scots were not invited to join the treaty of union ever for over three hundred years ( precedent) correct, and gave their Crown away to the monarchs of England, ( precedent) correct, That have not had a Scottish parliament in Scotland since 1707 ( precedent ) correct, and became a sovereign republic of Scotland without a crown or monarch, (precedent) correct,
And do not share a public national bank with England. (Precedent) correct,
So how or why do you think that the Scottish people whom are still Sovereign from the treaty of union, and are still sovereign from the monarch of England, and still sovereign from the Crown of Englands Courts, and are still sovereign from the bank of England and are still sovereign from the governance statues and legislation of Westminster parliament of England,
Because if the Scots are not in the treaty of union from the word go as the Westminster parliament state on their parliament site for a number of years now, they are not under the crown prosecutions and the kingdom of England constitution, The laws of England, the laws of Great Britain, the laws of the UK.
That complies with established precedent as far as Scots Scotland is concerned.
What is Westminster to do….
Well it could send an army of police or some other equal legal force, but then it would Breach the laws of International treaties if you want the treaty of union to be true legally.
This is what fascinates me personally.
The 1706/07 treaty of union is either true and Westminster has to comply with all the contractual terms and agreements made and comply with all the 25 articles.
It cannot Breach the treaty of union,
Or it is not creditable as a union with Scots whom were not invited to join the treaty of union in the first instant.
Meanwhile – with Sturgeon the Judas and her party selling us out since Salmond stood down, more and more folk are having to, if they’ve got the cash to do so – go private for certain medical procedures, Scotland’s two-tier NHS is alive and growing – if you have the cash that is.
Get the treacherous SNP out of office.
“The total number of private hospital admissions in Scotland last year amounted to 21,000, according to figures published by the Private Healthcare Information Network. This was an increase of 11 per cent increase on the year before.”
“AN SNP MP is to release a book to mark the upcoming 10th anniversary of the Scottish independence referendum.
MP for Perth and Kinross-Shire and the SNP’s deputy leader in Westminster Pete Wishart said his new book – Inside The Indyref – is “coming soon”.
“In a post on Twitter/X, Wishart said: “Coming soon to mark the 10th anniversary of the independence referendum.”
Big F*ckin Deal – for the last ten years, the SNP has betrayed the cause – I await with bated breath – THAT f*ckin book coming out.
F*ck You Wishart -you dirty turncoat.
Faither and son both with their snouts deep in the taxpayers trough – the apple never falls far from the tree, as they saying goes.
The SNP – are the major roadblock to independence – get them out of office wherever you find them.
https://archive.is/UcuOH
James you do share the Bank of England which is the ultimate guarantee behind the Scottish pound whivch is printed under licence from the Bank of England.
Rab Clark @6:49am
Thanks, Rab. Much appreciated. 🙂
Dame Hilda Two Nespresso
I hope you’ve spotted my ‘letters from the Northcode front’ on the ‘Golden Shot’ thread. And I hope they might have given you some cheer.
But I hope more that you spot this ‘letter’.
You might remember Rab Clark asking me if I’d be willing to allow the publication of some of my ‘stuff’ on the offtopicscotland website.
I’m pleased to say that I’ve agreed to Rab’s offer.
I’m in the process of producing some new material and hopefully, all going well, it won’t be too long now before it’s published.
It recently struck me that you and I have no means of communicating if, for whatever reason, the WoS forum is unavailable to us – as is it seems is now the case.
To that end, and if you’re agreeable to the idea of corresponding with me directly, Rab Clark has kindly agreed to forward my email address to you if you write him and ask for it.
Here’s Rab’s email address:
offtopicscotland@protonmail.com
I’d be very pleased to receive a ‘letter’ from you, Violet. It’s pretty dire here in the trenches without my muse to inspire me.
I eagerly await, in anticip………..ation, your response.
PS (a genuine one this time). Rab tells me he has a technical issue with his email and can’t send any until it’s fixed. He can receive emails but can’t send them properly right now. If you do want my email address he’ll send it to you when his email problem is fixed – hopefully soon.
Alan Austin.
We do not share the bank of England,
Because the Scots are not in the treaty of union. Precedent, remember.
James if you do not use the Bank of England Scotland has no currency as the pound is a UK currency which the Bank of England is guarantor for. This is the independence dilemma as a Scottish currency would be worth less than an English pound as it has no track record so any payment you receive from the government now in English pounds would be devalued by at least 10 – 15% or more. There is no Scottish Central Bank as Scotland uses the Bank of England and the English pound. SNP and nationalists do want to talk about this as it cremates any support for independence.
“nationalists do want to talk about this as it cremates any support for independence.”
Alan Austin.
Really?
“A PRO-INDEPENDENCE group working towards the introduction of a Scottish currency is set to hold its first in-person conference, marking a decade since the 2014 referendum.
The Scottish Currency Group conference – taking place on September 21 and 22 in Dunfermline – will focus on the theme of “preparing the way for the Scottish Currency and Scottish Reserve Bank”.
The group brings together economists, academics, banking professionals and think tanks to undertake analysis on currency options for an independent Scotland.”
https://archive.is/1evP9#selection-1773.3-1789.160
“Quite hilarious to be put on pre-mod for badgering Ellis. Of all the characters on here, he’s the one that exercises my capacity for restraint the most.”
The rules apply to everyone. Andy’s spent a fair amount of time on pre-mod himself, and will again if he breaks the rules. No favourites here. I’m tired warning people.
Alan Austin.
That still does not make the bank a public bank of Scotland legal you have to do
look at all the Acts that have been passed,
It is the bank for and connected to the Westminster parliament of England, and the Scots are not in the treaty of union,
The Scottish parliament used to be connected to it until it was dissolved in 1707.
If Englands bank wants to give Scotland money thats fine because it sets a established precedent of over 300 years in English law does it not?
@Republicofscooby 12:44
It’s great that people with lots of spare cash go private. It frees up scarce SNHS resources for those not so well off.
There’s even a “double whammy” effect, as the rich are effectively paying twice. Their taxes will already have paid for the treatment they need, and they have to write off that investment as lost when they pay the second time for private treatment.
I know the chips on your shoulders won’t allow you to agree, but WTAF, you can’t even write “Scotland” right!
100% stu! The wee ginger dug types should piss of somewhere else. They are actually working for the union.
“Average out the “Yes” vote in the 12 polls, and it shows “Yes” at 44%–the same percentage it got in the 2014 Referendum.”
Those are polls including Don’t Knows.