Sufferin’ Saints Eve
Posted on
April 13, 2019 by
Chris Cairns
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13 04 19 08:56
Sufferin’ Saints Eve | speymouth
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
They’ll be kicking that can down the road till Doomsday!
Halloween XIII
I think that is not just a cartoon, but an accurate vision into the near future for the broken, dysfunctional yookay.
Come halloween, it will be groundhog day again.
Splendid, Mr. Cairns.
I sometimes think that 50 years from now, in an independent Scotland, the Scottish national gallery in Princes’ Street, will be holding a summer exposition during the festival on ‘the fight for Scottish democracy – and how English colonialism was ended back in 2019’. Hanging on the walls, will be examples of the campaign, such as this, and maybe a few of Hamish.
The beads are a nice touch Chris 🙂
Mundell – I will resign!
Spookily accurate.
A real rib tickler Chris.
Nightmare on Errrm Street.
So you’re optimistic, Chris?
ATOS says she’s still fit for work as Tory Leader.
Groundhog Day. It will go on and on till the Tories lose a GE. Others will have to try to clear up the mess. The unionists at Westminster are not capable.
Interesting to see the support Ian Blackford gets from all quarters on Twitter. The SNP, the only one’s making any sense. The Westminster unionist complete and utter shambles. They could not make a bigger mess.
Sums it up nicely.
Wonderful and not just a cartoon but a picture of reality – tories will never compromise they just do what they have always done – grind people down until they have no choice. Love the quick wit from Breeks and Clootie above. Cheer up though our nightmare will soon be over. FREEDOM.
Chris, why is the SNP hierarchy playing Mr and Mrs Terribly Nice? Much as we detest the way it is moving from authoritarian to fascist, it’s England’s right to vote as it pleases, to dump Europe if it wants. There’s enough sensible English will in time regroup to regain the ethical ground without us butting in. Our job is to stop England dragging easy prey in Scotland with it. Scotland has no obligation to spend time on England’s illnesses. We gave power to the SNP to reinstate self-governance, not send Red Cross parcels to London.
Your essential weekend reading
How the SNP wastes time Saving Private England: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-jfe
Inspired Chris,and some how,truthful with it,a cracker.
Alas, it may not work out the way Chris Cairns assumes. It’s possible that the Labour and Conservative leaderships are being driven to collaborate by their common fear of having to contest any real elections, even Euro elections.
The practical sticking point between them at the moment is that, if Mrs May leaves office as soon as Brexit occurs, the Labour Party can have no confidence that any undertaking she makes about the subsequent negotiations with the EU will be respected by the incoming new Conservative leader. The solution could be that Mr Corbyn tacitly agrees that Mrs May continues in office, to get the negotiations well under way before she leaves No 10.
A question to which I don’t the answer is: if this scenario transpires, (and it will be clear within a couple of weeks whether it’s going to), how will the SNP leadership respond?
@Grouse beater,
Hear hear.
That cartoon is just something else. It is Brexit and the aftermath of the whole saga captured in one picture.
Brilliance.
OT
We’re not the only ones who notice the total discourtesy Scotland’s elected SNP representatives are treated with in the House of Commons, and on TV, in this “Precious Union”.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17571560.fidelma-cook-the-uk-is-damned-whatever-is-to-come-but-scotland-isnt/
Bit by bit.
Nae ching there Chris politicians talking over each other lol
Has Jacob Rees-Mogg ever been interviewed during daylight hours?
OT
Another thing I’ve noticed. On those forums, there were posters who were like “Well, I could be convinced” to start with, who have reverted to the usual Unionist taunts and sneers. Clearly fakes.
But there are also genuine unionists who are very much more thoughtful and open, even if not neccessarily about the SNP.
@GrouseBeater
Let England ‘’go to hell in a handcart’’ of its own choosing. Nationalists ought not to be distracted by offering advice on its choice of vehicle.
Who’s spiking the SNP coffee? Something’s not right. SPOOKY!
Last IndyRef even with Cameron in power it was sometimes hard to persuade people on the doorsteps that Westminster was a problem. No longer.
If we hhad designed a method to demonstrate the sheer incompetence, lack of national interest, party over country, my constituency job over country or party etc. etc. which is Westminster we could not have done better.
Post 2014 Westminster could have decided to be utterly competent and inact sober, sensible government in the interests of a reasonable proportion of the populace. Instead we had a Brexit referendum and Cameron fucked off and left others to fix the mess he made. The upper classes in a nutshell. Clean that up will you Jeeves.
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX: to explore ideas that are creative and unusual and that are not limited or controlled by rules or tradition.
An idiom in the SNP leadership vocabulary?
And another thing, I’m getting targetted a bit more in silly ways, and that’s good as long as I keep the heid, and remember I care nothing about the one targetting me, but am writing for the lurkers.
Echoes of Miss Faversham too there, Chris.
Time has moved on, but she hasn’t. Still stuck in the past.
That, I think, is very much what the SNP MPs and other representatives keep in mind. It’s more difficult for them, they have to reply in real time. The big advantage we have on social media of any sort is that we DON’T have to reply straight away, we can take a few minutes to collect our thoughts – and ourselves.
And at times, we don’t even have to reply at all. The stupidity of some of the posts or tweets of the unionists does our job for us. Their last word is all that’s needed to make our case.
That could so simply be Labour/Tory flags
I have noticed on my other blogs that the leavers and UKOK groups seem to be cranking up the anger.
Always a good sign when your opponent starts to lose the heid.
Stay calm and be patient is my advice. Let them do all the work for you.
Oh.
I thought the skeletons are supposed to be Ms Sturgeon and Mr Swinney waiting to assert Scotland’s political sovereignty
or fight an election or referendum on Scotland’s independence.
A wee laugh, provided by “Led By Donkeys”.
https://thebrexitparty.com/
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17570885.farage-vows-to-change-politics-as-brexit-party-web-domain-is-hijacked/
@Gullaneno4
Indeed.
Another six months of zombie land.
Meanwhile the MSM still try to present a vote for the SNP as a protest vote. They are a bit like the football fan who when you say you support Partick Th. ask ‘but what is your big team’. You just neen to replace team with party to get the mindset of most of the MSM, underneath they believe, at heart, we are all ultra unionist like them.
Man, Colin you really are a knob.
One Scot @ 10.10
I don’t think hes even a man but he is a knob! Hehehe.
@Clootie 7.24 am
I think that is what is known in fashion speak as one of her ‘statement’ necklaces!
Colin Alexander
Does show how you fool yourself on a regular basis in part based on prejudice!!
Still sticking with the theory that she really is a human then Chris ?
The sun never rises over the British Vampire. 😉
I wonder if Coco really is a nob – without the k, meaning one of our upper class ‘betters’. Would explain his interminable dribblings.
The Wicked Witch of the South East may scare Jeremy Corbyn and Fib Dem Brit Nats but she does nor scare the EU.
How come I can’t see any daylight through Treeza’s skull?
Nice one Chris, we in Scotland will be zombiefied if we need to wait until Halloween (or longer) to find out the result of Brexit.
I hope Sturgeon fires the indy starting pistol before then, or apathy might set in over the Summer as we listen to the continious drone of Brexit.
Every episode of the new Netflix series ‘Our Planet’ begins with the sight of the Earth rising of a lunar horizon.
It was filmed in 4k and the close up shot of the Earth is spectacular.
As the Earth revolves, day turns to night.
The light pollution in Europe caught my attention.
If you find time to watcb this magnificent series remember to look at the north North Sea during that sequence.
The image from space, of all those lights from the oil rigs is a jaw dropping.
Perhaps someone can do a screen capture and post it on here?
Hey, clueless Colin A. The-necklace-is-the clue. Sheesh!
One to reflect the ongoing death-throws of empire.
Autocracy
http://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-3?rskey=aTc7eb&result=3
Proud Cybernat says:
13 April, 2019 at 10:56 am
How come I can’t see any daylight through Treeza’s skull?
It’s too dense. Light can’t escape.
Sorry to disagree Breeks, but you are thinking of a black hole which has so much gravity that light can’t escape.
May has no gravity (or gravitas).
Must just be dark matter.
Maybe the deal between Labour and Tory over Brexit was done some time ago, and it was just to keep kicking the can down the road for as long as it takes for the public to die of boredom and not care anymore then they’ll pass something horrible and nobody will really pay much attention anyway and the two parties can carry on doing what they were doing before, dictating to the whole of the four countries of the British isles but calling it all their country
It’s like being beaten and lashed over the whole of your body but they leave one toe completely unharmed so you’ll have hope
HaHaHa. All true.
Hi mr thms.
RE: Our Planet. See ‘off-topic’.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-74/#comment-2451205
“ Frank Waring @0907 a.m. , if a deal is agreed to take Scotland out of the EU then our mandate is in place. No single market access for Scotland is the significant issue . However , the “ powergrab” “ EVEL” etc. Etc. equates to a host of other significant issues in the wider context of “ Scottish sovereignty “ and the “ war of attrition” by the Britnat Westminster establishment against Holyrood and thereby the people of Scotland.
Bill Hume@12.13pm
Pretty sure its Dim Matter she has.
…….
MV 1 got rejected, treeza!
Treeza: Dim Matter, try again….
MV 2 got rejected, treeza!
Treeza: Dim Matter, try again….
MV 3 got rejected, treeza!
Treeza: Dim Matter, try again…
………
@geeo 1.08 pm
Or even ‘Disnae matter’, try again…
See how unionist say “2014. You lost.”.
In all fairness, that is a bit more recent than saying
“1707. You lost.”
I see Ross Thomson is out and about telling everyone about his hands on approach. He apparently has kept his eye on the ball since being elected.
Given the scale of threat Brexit poses to Scotland, do folk think the BBC in Scotland are performing a satisfactory role as public educator?
http://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/34863
Acquisition and loss of citizenship in EU Member States
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2018/625116/EPRS_BRI(2018)625116_EN.pdf
The UK, EU Citizenship and Free Movement of Persons
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/primers/the-uk-eu-citizenship-and-free-movement-of-persons/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40802-018-0122-9
Bill Hume says:
“Sorry to disagree Breeks, but you are thinking of a black hole which has so much gravity that light can’t escape.
May has no gravity (or gravitas).
Must just be dark matter.”
——–
Scientists are on to proving dark matter exists so it can’t be that.
I think it’s a void of nothingness, a vacuum, a truely empty space. 🙂
(Option A) Indyref2: with a triple democratic mandate from the people of Scotland.
(Option B) People’s Vote 2: no democratic mandate from the people of Scotland. But supported by BritNat Tories, LibDems and Blairites.
Which one is the SNP campaigning for?
A or B?
Can I confirm if the BlacK Hole recently photographed is called Brexit?
@ Colin Alexander: 2.54
Neither at the moment since there is no campaign, at the moment.
Don’t worry though, as soon as there is a grass root campaign supported by the SG and others I’ m sure you will be the last one to know about it. (Well, acknowledge it anyway)
I mean, it’s so easy to be a dyed in the wool antiScot isn’t it?
Why do the SNP and Independence supporters in Scotland have to put up with such a second rate leader as Nicola Sturgeon.
She’s obviously not up to the job and we need a more decisive leader to take over. Someone of the calibre of Richard Leonard, Ruth Davidson or the best MSP in Holyrood Willie Rennie?
Even better would be a real Premier League leader that really knows what they’re doing, well on top of their brief like Theresa May or political giant and legend Jeremy Corbyn.
Another one of life’s little mysteries so it is.
@ Hamish 100: 3.10.
No, not called Brexit. Even a black hole has Hawkins Radiation escaping from it.
Gie it a rest, Coco, we all appreciate you are a far superior thinker than anyone in the Scottish Government.
That, presumable, is why they are where they are and you……..are a painful dribbler of rubbish on a blog.
Sturgeons leadership is so bad that the SNP have had two “civil wars” within the party in just the past year.
She’s a totally divisive figure unlike Richard Leonard or his boss the legend Jeremy Corbyn.
She could learn a lot from Theresa May about keeping a party together and pulling in the same direction to achieve your goals. I think she should go now for the sake of the SNP or I fear they will never win 56 MP’s at Westminster again.
Thepnr
Careful mate, you forgot to use the irony font type. You’ll get Toryboy all excited. 😉
https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1307&context=bjil
I offer these without comment.
Norway: young people concerned about climate change are shutting down the very industry that makes their country prosperous
http://archive.is/WUo5T
Fear Grips Norway’s Oil Industry as Political Risk Explodes
http://archive.is/rVhPr
nicola is not campaigning for euref2 as there isnt one
she is positioning herself and the snp in a place which is supported by the majority of voters in scotland and the ruk.
this position will only undermine the imediate indy campaign if the euref2 actually happens. it hasnt so far and i doubt it ever will, when it doesnt, it wont be the fault of the snp.
this position will evaporate into insignificance the second a ge is called.
but the voters will remember.
the extension has bought the uk some time, but not the tory party.
corbyn is embarked on a similar populous action, entering into talks with treeza, making all the right compromise noises in the next 2 weeks before finally declaring treeza is stubborn and uncompromising and waling out of these talks. talks he never intended would go anywhere, he will never take joint responsability for treezas brexit, his very presence in downing st is damaging the tory party.
its called politics
We’ve got two big skeletal beasties in Glesga the noo lol
Correct me if I’m wrong, but while a six month extension of Article 50 has been granted, if May and Corbyn do get the Withdrawal Agreement approved, and have a Parliamentary majority to leave the EU with the Barnier/May Withdrawal Agreement, what timescale are we talking about for such a process to be complete? Nevermind the impracticalities, what are the ramifications IF it happens?
Don’t forget, the UK Government’s Attorney General, the “Right Honourable” Sir Geoffrey Cox, advised that May could agree to the Irish Backstop and just worm her way out of it at a later date on a contrived technicality. We also know the price tag on the DUP, and PM’s willingness to pay that price. Maybe the new Royal Yacht they planned to build wasn’t for Her Maj but to sweeten a deal with Jezzer. I’m joking of course, … I think.
If Scotland discovers it is finding purchase for either a People’s vote, or IndyRef2, what is to stop the UK Establishment panicking and actually accelerating the Brexit process to leave Europe quickly, with the express and deliberate intention of catching Remainers and Scottish Independentists off guard and ill prepared?
And the obvious reciprocal question then becomes whether Scotland has an Emergency Escape Plan to save Scotland from Brexit, and whether that can be achieved it in a shorter timeframe than Brexit can be accelerated.
I hope too that we have adequate and rigorous impact assessments done to fully appreciate the merits of staying in Europe as opposed to exiting Europe and rejoining, because it seems to me officially leaving the EU, even momentarily, alters the status of EU Nationals immediately, changes the voting franchise, puts us beyond the jurisdiction of the ECJ (unless there is a Withdrawal Agreement to tide us over), and leaves Scotland isolated and cut off, and largely at the mercy of the UK Establishment and it’s rabid propagandists. None of that happens if we stay in.
I feel extraordinarily attached to my EU safety blanket, and not at all keen on letting it go even for an instant. If it is possible to be that sure of getting back, then it doesn’t seem remotely necessary to be letting it go in the first place.
It makes me anxious that the EU elections are such a massive and obvious can of worms for the UK Government, and it makes no sense at all for Europe to open it’s doors to the Brexit imbeciles like Farage, Rees Mogg and What’shisface Francois. Why would the EU do that, unless they had some kind of guillotine clause to limit the damage? I’m intrigued by the intrigue, because there is something that doesn’t ring true.
I am beginning to ask myself whether it is credible to believe the UK will take part in the EU elections… I think the UK Establishment will try very hard to truncate the process before we get there, and I’ve got a sneaky suspicion the EU expects them to.
Breeks, Have a wee look at Schrodingers cat @ 4.19 pm for example (as usual many useful comments above too)
Breeks you invest alot of your energy in worry.
I think you will find that if you have been able to imagine it then the SNP will certainly have considered those possible scenarios too. AND a safe passage through all possible eventualities. That is their job.
Remember, there are many brilliant minds working within the SNP, all of whom are working towards the best chances for Scotland to return to being Independent Scotland 🙂
Breeks 4.40
The EU extension would have made sense if they were sure the returned UK MEPs were going to be EU enthusiasts.
But there’s no way they are that politically naïve.
So unless its some machievellian ploy to put pressure on May to get some deal done
Then the alternative is the EU is a big cat playing with a little mouse.
Let’s really feck with their heads by forcing them to hold EU elections.
Miaow! Miaow!
I hope folk are beginning to realise just how poorly served they are by the BBC in Scotland. I hope they are also beginning to appreciate the level of support the broadcaster has given to right-wing, xenophobic, authoritarian, nationalism.
aei.pitt.edu/33095/1/kochenov._dimitry.pdf
eudo-citizenship.eu/docs/Pilgram.pdf
Immigration and Asylum Law and Policy in Europe,
https://brill.com/view/title/24113?page=1
The UK’s Approach to EU Citizenship, Criminality and Expulsion
https://www.europeanfutures.ed.ac.uk/article-5726
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/eulj.12300
The Pentagon Papers whistleblower is not optimistic.
Daniel Ellsberg: Assange’s Arrest Is the Beginning of the End
http://archive.is/ECxBS
Breeks says:
“And the obvious reciprocal question then becomes whether Scotland has an Emergency Escape Plan to save Scotland from Brexit, and whether that can be achieved it in a shorter timeframe than Brexit can be accelerated”
……….
Walk into Holyrood, table an emergency Treaty of Union dissolution motion to protect Scotland’s People’s Sovereign expressed will to remain IN the EU, with a stated intent to hold an affirmation plebiscite later to either:
a) remain independent (stutus after dissolution)
b) instruct Holyrood to renegotiate a new treaty of union on new terms acceptable to Scotland in 2019.
Easy peasy.
CameronB Brodie@5.12
Stopped listening to BBC Shortbread a while back, although I did have a few minutes one AM this week to catch Alyn Smith being interviewed by GM Shortbreads finest!!!?? G Rubberheid, as expected well below par on any level by the BBC employee.
Although I posted a wee while back that I had finished with LBC, I started listening again, although this morning was a Nigel “Simpsons” arsehole Farage love fest.
Couldn’t stomach it so switched off.
The state the country is in at the moment will eventually land back at the door of the likes of The Daily Heil,”Hurrah for the Blackshirts” have they ever gone away?
Trying to be upbeat, but the mentality of the gullible?? worrying times ahead.
Daily Hail Fascist Saturday Special is outraged as well as Labour
North Accounting unit that the SNP has borrowed money for projects
Such as major motorway and by pass systems.
Turns out there is interest on any money borrowed?
Now it wouldn’t be fair to mention how red and blue Tories
Were happy to see Scotland’s 2 major cities linked with a
Dual carriageway for the last 60 years and even more outrageous
To mention Gordon Brown paying over £300 Billion for £50 Billion
Of new build schools etc.
Many of the lucky companies who land the Labour Dream Cone True Contracts
Sold them on immediately as they thought someone would realise how dumb the
Overpayment was.
Wonder what mystery companies put £Millions into Gordon’s own charity were all money
Is drawn down by Gordon as Expenses.
Well 1st class flights and 5 star Hotels do cost a lot don’t they.
We are all in it together though??,
Really no need to own a TV if you want to know what BBC Scotland’s News will be running as a story. Just have a look at the unionist twitter feed, simple and you cut out the middleman.
Drama regarding Scottish Police Vehicles!
Labour uncovers that one police car per day breaks down?
But don’t they have thousands of vehicles?
96% of all police vehicles are currently on the road.
That’s as good as it gets as offices will cause some
Bumps and bangs, they can be innocent in other crashes,
All cars breakdown at some point, and some Tory from the
Police federation advised that tyres can be damaged on the road.
There we are SNP you must invent tyres that last for ever and cars that
Cannot breakdown or you are Bad. Just ask Scottish Labour and they
Can get permission from London to answer.
After all the SNP have done to protect Scotland from the madness of Westminster’s ever increasingly right-wing authoritarian neo-liberalism bollocks, I’m surprised at the doubts I read on sites like this.
How quick some forget their protection from the worst of the bedroom tax, the defence of our budget, stopping the slow privatisation of the NHS like we see in england, free prescriptions and honouring their word on tuition fees unlike Clegg et al. There’s loads of other stuff but hey if you back independence I’m sure you know the rest of it, right? …Right?
I’m not even an SNP member, don’t always agree with some of their policies but credit where credit is due. They have taken Scotland this far, I’ll keep the faith in their ability to see this through.
Sorry, I’m a bit of a lurker more than a poster, just needed to rant a bit today! Also thanks for the articles CameronB Brodie, feels like I’m getting a free higher education lol.
@Effijy
Someone needs to tell Labour that Westminster has been borrowing money hand over fist (around £2Trillion) and presumably some of this is for projects. I suppose the big difference is these are mostly projects in England so they are cool with that, and the interest will be paid by Scots.
Gary45%
I keep my ear in but they are not conducive to good mental health. The BBC in Scotland is actively undermining Scottish democracy, moral and legal identity, public health, education system, economic viability and potential, social sustainability and cohesion. The BBC is not a “liberal” organisation, they exist to support Britain’s outdated sham of a democracy. They are the mouthpiece of Westminster/Whitehall and all the nasty little Englanders that inhabit both bastions of imperialism.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/primers/the-uk-eu-citizenship-and-free-movement-of-persons/
CameronB Brodie says:
13 April, 2019 at 5:12 pm
“I hope folk are beginning to realise just how poorly served they are by the BBC in Scotland.”
—————
Sadly the majority of Scots don’t know!
&
SNP and others in the independence movement have been too scared to take the bbc to task over the bbc’s unionist bias / propaganda in Scotland.
Too often, people are criticised when they say the clue is in the name and their view is dismissed as too simplistic.
It’s not too simplistic, it sums bbc up perfectly and I do not see it changing.
One new theme the bbc are spinning relentlessly in Scotland is the word “we” in relation to brexit. “When are we leaving?” “Are we are all fed up of this?” “We voted to leave!” The we refers to uk, at no point is the caveated by Scotland’s different and demonstrated view. Scotland’d demonstrated view is being airbrushed out by the bbc and substituted by England view.
A broadcaster in Scotland with a sense of civic responsibility should be highlighting the dangers of brexit, who is pushing it and why. “We” know that won’t be the bbc!
The BBC may be still be viewed as a cultural icon by some but their primary function has always been that of government mouthpiece. The animals, drams and art are only their to sell their shite journalism. Time for some Critical Media Studies and stuff?
Journalism Ethics
http://oxfordre.com/communication/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228613.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228613-e-89
Cultivating the media activist: How critical media literacy and critical service learning can reform journalism education
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1464884913478361
Module 2: Unit 11 : Media Regulation
2. Media Theory, Policy, Regulation and Accountability
2.1 Normative media theory
https://www.le.ac.uk/oerresources/media/ms7501/mod2unit11/page_07.htm
What We Talk About When Talk About “Media Independence”
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13183222.2016.1162986
OT – good article by Jonathan Cook about the shameful behaviour of the British Government in the detention of Julian Assange.
Theresa May announced in Parliament that his arrest shows that “nobody in Britain is above the law”. What a joke.
Meanwhile the Westminster Government breaks the law and international protocols with impunity.
Link from a comment on Craig Murray’s article on the Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning arrests. Worth a read.
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2019-04-11/julian-assange-lies-arrest/#
Far right BritNats just don’t seem to understand Brexit. It is of their making but still the don’t understand their own monster.
The Withdrawal Agreement has been completed. The terms of divorce have been finalised. Negotiations covering it with the EU are closed and it won’t be reopened. Yet there are some (DUP for instance) who are in denial about this.
The Political Declaration covering the future relationship is open for amendment. Customs Union, Single Market etc can be added as an indication of how talks should proceed post Brexit.
Some favour a ‘no deal’ exit. The EU has already stated that there three preconditions to future trade talks …. EU citizens’ rights, money owned, and an open NI border. Yes, the WA in effect. There is no escaping it.
Some think they don’t need trade agreements, everything can be done via WTO rules. This group are either suicidal or catastrophe capitalists out to make a fast buck at our expense!
Even right wing Fox anchor Tucker Carlson has more integrity than the British press on this issue. We are so badly served by the MSM. It puts every whistle blower and investigative journalist, specially the online variety, in danger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7OfU71Sbk
@BBC in Scotland
Do you think all our head zip at the back?
https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/96/37
CameronB Brodie@6.13
Aye, like yourself, the BBC have produced some well made programmes over the years.
We stopped the licence after Indy 2014, but watched some progs on the BBC catch up until they changed the viewing rules regarding the licence.(2016)
They produced a brilliant series called Planet Oil, my wife and I still promote the programme to friends, its now available on You Tube. Its one of those “the BBC showing this?!WTF.
I miss one or two things, but the feeling from “Breaking free from the Matrix” is well worth stopping the licence.
Discussion on BBC Shortbread’s The Seven programme, on Brexit. All contributions from an English perspective, no Scottish dimension whatsoever.
The fifth collumn within Scotland – pushing the Londn agenda at every opportunity.
A bunch of tractors o Scotland.
OT. A short documentary from the Division of Administrative Foundations and Technologies, re. explorations in to future infrastructure and social policy gaps in Brexitania.
Mineshaft gap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSzoLCCX-Y
O/t I just had the thought that Scotland post indy will be entitled to half of the uk assets including the post 1707 British empire, so imagine the fury of the britnats when half their empire becomes Scottish.
Politicians have promoted consumer goods and economic wealth as the indicator of success, rather than biological success.
Most contributors on Wings say the same, so that the success of Scotland is measured in £ signs or barrels of oil.
The political classes for decades have promoted a social policy of low birth rates and stigmatising of (adult) teenage births.
The SNP are no different from Labour, Tories, LibDems or any other mainstream political party in that regard with the promotion of economic wealth and the pretence of biological reproductive equality over motherhood and fatherhood.
But I will give the SNP some credit for slightly better nursery support for children and promotion of baby boxes.
However, decades of society based on greed for material things and career before family means Scotland is a dying nation reliant on foreigners to replace the native population to maintain a society.
Only twice have I seen Ruth Davidson put under any pressure in an interview, in both occasions she crumble like a piece of Edinburgh Rock. Absolutely no backbone when push comes to shove.
Whereas Nicola Sturgeon is under constant daily attack from the MSM, I don’t think I’ve seen her wilt once. It’s like watching a professional politician versus a PR version of one.
There does seem to be some unwritten rule that any ex journo who becomes a politician is given an easy ride, after all they are one of their own. The only exception is John Nicolson, who was frequently invited on to This Week to be patronised by Andrew Neil and smirked at by Michael Portillo.
@Colin Alexander –
‘…Scotland is a dying nation…’
What a reprehensible comment.
As it happens, George Galloway used precisely the same phrase on one of his Talsport shows, oooh, must be a decade ago, and it turned me against him instantly.
Every single one of us is ‘dying’. The only other certainties, as Marvin Gaye observed, are taxes and trouble. Scotland is not just a ‘nation’, it is an ideal, an aspiration, an ‘unwon cause’ as Tinto Chiel liked to remind us.
Our children, and theirs, will stay in Scotland if we ensure it is a place where they can prosper. So, CA, take your repulsive negativity and faux cynicism and shove them right up yer hole, ya fuckin roaster.
@Ian Brotherhood
The eedjit thinks nobody in the world had boats and never came from anywhere else or went anywhere else, so if your name doesn’t start with Mc or Mac you’re foreign
The guy’s defo a disciple of McTrump
Opinium have just published results of opinion poll.
Opinium/Observer: Tories dive…
LAB: 36% (+1)
CON: 29% (-6)
UKIP: 11% (+2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
GRN: 4% (-1)
09 – 12 Apr
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1117151305242427392
Electoral Calculus reckons that this would give the SNP 50 seats. See the prediction here:-
http://tinyurl.com/y6qkuq32
Looks like Colin Alexander is a wank.
OK, here’s one for those who are terrified of Brexit, or find the notion of independence appealing, yet think it would be selfish for Scotland to look out for its’ own best interests.
http://www.klemens.sav.sk/fiusav/doc/filozofia/2016/3/197-208.pdf
HOBBES AS A SOCIOBIOLOGIST. RETHINKING THE STATE OF (HUMAN) NATURE
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-512X2017000100163
Hobbes on Self-Preservation and Suicide
https://brill.com/previewpdf/journals/hobs/4/1/article-p26_3.xml
From Self-Preservation to Cosmopolitan Friendship: Kant and the Ascent of Love
http://www.kant-online.ru/en/?p=933
Dr Jim
Interesting how you interpret my comment to be anti-immigration
when my comment highlights the necessity of immigration due to economic and social policies that have led to such a low birth rate in the resident population of Scotland.
I voted Remain part of the EU, which means freedom of movement. It’s the SNP that failed to defend that democratic decision by the people of Scotland.
@Colin Alexander
“…decades of society based on greed for material things and career before family…”
Eh? What exactly do you mean by that? Are you suggesting that women who, by the way, take the burden of caring for elderly relatives AND children are selfish? When they are in their 60s and cannot physically care for a relative in their 80s lifting and cleaning and watching at night, all that stuff. When they now have to work those extra years after putting in all that unpaid stuff, and their careers suffer as a result, it is their GREED and selfishness that means they cannot continue to bear that burden and need help from carers?
Wow, just wow. Who in this socialist utopia of yours would care for the elderly? You? Or are your career needs far too important?
” It would appear that Englishness is becoming the identity of people who are least comfortable with change in the modern world “
https://www.bloombergquint.com/businessweek/brexit-exposes-painful-disconnect-between-england-and-britain
Colin Alexander
I think you’ve simply pissed on your own chips Colin. Folk are wary of what you say as you’ve exhibited a rather negative way of showing support for the cause. We all see the world differently, though that doesn’t mean we are all differently correct in our individual interpretations. What make you so strong in your belief that the professionals at the coal face have got it wrong, and you are the true messiah? Got any facts and shit?
And how many grandparents are subsidising childcare when they should be enjoying retirement? Yes, the demographic time bomb is affecting us all but o say it is greed that drives it is about as unfair as it gets.
This is a game to you, isn’t it? Inflammatory comments to provoke a response.
You have no idea how offensive you are and I have refrained from joining in the universal condemnation of your ridiculous trolling until now. You keep promoting this whole socialism is the ideologically pure remedy for everything and we are greedy stupid people for not recognising it.
Enough.
“However, decades of society based on greed for material things and career before family means Scotland is a dying nation reliant on foreigners to replace the native population to maintain a society.”
That is proper BULLSHIT @Colin Alexander says at 9:12 pm
Scotland is currently a nation reliant on inward migration due to a conscious ‘British’ policy since 1707 of displacing the native population (internally within the UK and externally Globally) via Highland & Lowland Clearances, deindustrialisation, sucking the economy into the London and the SE of England etc. etc.
This is what has caused “The necessity of immigration due to economic and social policies that have led to such a low birth rate in the resident population of Scotland.”
It’s been ALL BritNat Policy driven since 1707 until 2007.
300 Years of ‘Britain Knows Best Scotland, do as you’re told’.
I don’t think the SNP Scots Gov have done too bad these last 12 years considering that is only 4% of the time it took the Brits to fuck Scotland up.
You are either an out and out liar, a ‘Dog Whistle’ racist BritNat or just a proper nasty wee shite, Man at C&A.
From the link posted by galamcennalath.
“As the process has run into trouble, there are indications that pro-Brexit voters in England are doubling down rather than reconsidering their choice. An April YouGov poll suggested that every English and Welsh region other than London would be happy to quit the EU without a deal, risking the threat of economic harm, trade chaos, and shortages in stores and hospitals to get their way. In one of the many recent Brexit votes at Westminster, 160 members of Parliament—two-fifths of the total—supported such a “No Deal” exit, 156 of them from constituencies in England. Edington’s Conservative MP, Andrew Murrison, was among them.”
Collective Narcissism and Its Social Consequences
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40455337_Collective_Narcissism_and_Its_Social_Consequences
Can Brexit be explained by the theory of Collective Narcissism?
https://blogs.canterbury.ac.uk/psychology/can-brexit-be-explained-by-the-theory-of-collective-narcissism/
The Relationship between the Brexit Vote and Individual Predictors of Prejudice: Collective Narcissism, Right Wing Authoritarianism, Social Dominance Orientation
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.02023/full
Xenophobia strongly linked to Brexit vote, study finds
British citizens who agreed that immigrants threaten their values and way of life were more likely to have voted to leave the EU, research led by Goldsmiths, University of London has found.
https://www.gold.ac.uk/news/xenophobia-brexit/
SilverDarling
You introduce a serious point. It’s a shame you twist it to attack my views.
The role of motherhood and caring duties for the elderly is hugely undervalued in our society and under supported in a society where success is measured by economic wealth such as house value and cars etc.
So, parents delay parenthood to try and save money for mortgages etc because in our society house prices are overinflated as they are seen as investments, not as basic necessities of shelter and refuge.
Some praise for the SNP that some more socially rented housing has been built. However, even the SNP promote the home ownership market model of society where it’s all about getting on the property ladder.
Scot Govt Grants etc should not be given out to those who aspire to own their own property. This is money that should be spent to encourage and support parenthood and carer needs.
Instead, there is still a lack of affordable nursery places. Day centres and support services for the elderly are also being cut putting a greater burden on families as primary carers for their elderly relatives.
I’m no saying it’s all the fault of the SNP either. Scotland is under UK austerity policies too and is part of the same rotten UK economic model.
There is a very good reason that the fact:
“Only twice have I seen Ruth Davidson put under any pressure in an interview, in both occasions she crumble like a piece of Edinburgh Rock. Absolutely no backbone when push comes to shove.” @jfngw says at 9:32 pm
It is because she is a media construct (potentially 77th Brigade styli, think Operation Mincemeat “The Man who never was”, but deceiving the Scottish Electorate instead of the Axis powers).
Style over substance.
A Weather Vane Politician.
Allowed to change her stance (flip, flop) almost daily and never, ever challenged publicly.
Allowed to lie and never, ever challenged publicly.
Sympathetically edited for public consumption (think of the Scots Tory Councillors/MSP/MPS scandals of Racism/Bigotry etc. skirted over versus vilification of SNP MSPs/MPs etc.
Colonel Yadaftie, The Ruthenfuhrer has no backbone.
She also allegedly biffed Sandhurst as a Scalyback due to ‘back problems’ so a history of ‘when the going gets tough, Ruth gets going (in the opposite direction)’.
Hi Cameron BB.
Nana actually linked to that article at 8.50 this morning.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-first-choices/comment-page-1/#comment-2451173
I posted it on my Facebook page, typing,
This is a fine piece of writing. As Nana, a commenter on Wings Over Scotland suggests, this should be read as a sermon from every pulpit in England.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-12/brexit-exposes-painful-disconnect-between-england-and-britain?fbclid=IwAR36HDnIDGA5PnyrYJYR-lST_O9wthaRu4k2I8tWBYET9XqQRSCbKBi3koA
@Brian Doonthetoon
“Electoral Calculus reckons that this would give the SNP 50 seats.”
Only 50 seats! Sturgeon is utterly useless, she’s to blame for such a crap performance and needs to go, sooner the better. I’m sick of saying it but we need a real leader, somebody with clear leadership ability that will get things done. Why can’t Sturgeon be more like Jeremy Corbyn?
I can’t see us ever getting 56 seats again with her in charge.
I would hope to see an indy Scotland enthusiastically screw its way to a natural population of 10-15million.
– repopulate the highlands.
as rodney dangerfield might say
“hey everybuddy we’re all gonna git laid”
– WHAT A SLOGAN FOR THE NEW CAMPAIGN
– quit with the whining, we’re all going in bareback
And while I’m alluding to comments being scrolled past, I would have thought the SNP holding the balance of power at Westminster would have generated some input.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/sufferin-saints-eve/comment-page-1/#comment-2451268
Not you, Thepnr!
8=)
Also regarding “economic and social policies” in regards Britain’s Colonial Mindset, Man at C&A.
Try this link:
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/04/13/the-real-question-for-scotland-in-brexit-britain/
“When the British first established a foothold in India, India was the second largest economy in the world. Its growth rate became zero under British rule as the British imposed a deliberate policy of withholding industrialisation and prioritising the exploitation of Indian resources for the benefit of Britain.”
For Scotland see India!
That’s what you get with Eton then Oxbridge indoctrinated One Nation British Nationalist Politicians (and their Ragman’s Roll, Toom Tabard Low Flying Jimmy Scottish BritNat Tory, BLiS____d and FibDem Enablers).
But I’m pretty sure you know this Colin.
Brian Doonthetoon It wouldn’t as Tories in Scotland are mainly about the Union and fewer of them would switch to UKIP or the Brexit Party as is the case in England and Wales
Shift change at Dennison Barracks is it?
A FUD for a Fud?
Some other polling news from Peston.
“According to Opinium, Farage’s new Brexit Party plus UKIP collectively polling 8 percentage points more than Conservative Party.”
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1117136083047854088
Tories 17%
UKIP 13%
Brexit Party 12%
Cameron
I’ll respond to you out of respect and courtesy.
Fair comment. I’ve not been slow at being critical of the SNP, so I’m automatically someone to be distrusted on Wings, I get that. No offence to the good work Stu does but, I don’t really see Wings as relevant to my life anymore anyway, so I’m fine with that.
All the eggs are in the SNP’s basket and that basket is currently marked UK People’s Vote, no independence.
So, I don’t even see the point of reading the same auld crap from the same auld posters, who, if they’re no trying to bully me with their insults and false accusation, they’re trying to bully someone else with their abusive comments.
I’ve more important things to do with my time. But, keep up the good fight for Scotland’s independence whether it’s on here or by other means.
Hopefully, the SNP will eventually get their act together and realise their job is to get Scotland independence, no keep the UK/England in the EU.
@ Thepnr – saw that poll. England seems to have been taken over by complete lunar modules. The Tories will not want an election of any description and neither will Labour.
I don’t think their Easter hols will be a festival of renewal somehow.
Hi HYUFD at 12:21 am.
You typed,
“Brian Doonthetoon It wouldn’t as Tories in Scotland are mainly about the Union and fewer of them would switch to UKIP or the Brexit Party as is the case in England and Wales”
I just don’t understand what your mention of “Tories in Scotland” refers to. I’m sure Electoral Calculus factor the differences between Scotland and England into their algorithms.
If Labour have 307 and the SNP have 50, that gives a left-leaning figure of 357 – 361 if you include Green and Plaid.
Assuming that the Lib-Dems with 25 and the DUP (would they?) with 10(?) cozied up with your crowd on 245, that would give you 280.
On re-examining the prediction, the SNP would not hold the balance of power – Labour would be in front onnyhoo.
So, I don’t understand your comment wrt Scotland. In Scotland, it has developed into Unionists versus Independentistas.
With the polls the way they are, The Tories will now avoid a GE at all costs!
They may not be able to avoid EU elections, though.
Jockanese Wind Talker Before the British Empire India also had women being thrown onto funeral pyres, no rail network, no common law, nor the Westminster style democracy it has today. While the record of the East India company etc may have been mixed, Hong Kong is one of the powerhouses of the global economy developed under British rule
@galamcennalath
They might want to now avoid a general election at all costs. Doesn’t mean that they will be able to, as it might not be within their power to do so.
Well worth a read.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/tory-mps-are-freaking-out-in-the-tea-rooms-about-what-the
The pnr Euro elections only
Brian Doonthetoon Electoral Calculus go on UK figures only and apply UK changes to Scotland
Tories in Scotland will switch to Farage in a heartbeat, it’s what they are
Colin Alexander
“I’ve more important things to do with my time. But, keep up the good fight for Scotland’s independence whether it’s on here or by other means.”
Best of luck with your affairs then.
“I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in the country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”
A quote from the first Baron Macauley, approx. 1834 about his travels through India.
——————-
Fuck off Toryfuddick.
The FUD on Wings demonstrating once again his Britnat Tory colonial mindset. The Empire is gone – get over it. The UK will soon be gone – best prepare to get over that as well.
Brian Doonthetoon says, “So, I don’t understand your comment wrt Scotland. In Scotland, it has developed into Unionists versus Independentistas.”
And in England it is Stay and Leave. Anyone though of mass relocations? 🙂
@HYUFD
“Brian Doonthetoon Electoral Calculus go on UK figures only and apply UK changes to Scotland”
No they don’t!
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/scotland.html
Watch Don Alberto Armstrong coming out strong for Farage and dumping his used to be best girl Ruth Davidson or what’s he going to do with all those Filipinos he hired to be his hard working Scottish fishermen
HYUFD
“Jockanese Wind Talker Before the British Empire India also had women being thrown onto funeral pyres, no rail network, no common law, nor the Westminster style democracy it has today.”
Come on lad, a sense of cultural sensitivity and historical perspective please, your colonial underbelly is unsightly. Have you forgotten the millions of ‘natives’ who died as a result of the Empire, Toryboy?
Dr Jim Most Tories even in England have not yet switched to Farage outside the European elections
The PNR Yes and their current Scottish prediction gives the SNP 46 seats on that very page not the 50 Brian Doonthetoon was claiming based on tonight’s poll
Cubby The Empire may largely be gone bar a few overseas territories but the Commonwealth is very much still alive. As is the Union despite Nicola Sturgeon’s claim in 2016 the Brexit vote would enable Nationalists to bring it to an end
*Even in England* says the failed Tory from Epsom who knows all about Scotland
they can’t help it can they
@HYUFD
Your not very bright are you? Stupid question.
Anyway the 46 seat prediction is based on a single poll as stated clearly on the page:
Prediction based on opinion polls from 01 Mar 2019 to 04 Mar 2019, sampling 1,011 people.
The prediction of 50 seats from Brian is based on a later poll and from which you can input the figures yourself.
You’re just upset because all the Tories are really KIPPERS and you don’t think you’re one of them. Well you are to me, anyway and annoy Tommy Robinson and give us some fucking peace.
Cameron B Brodie Given the British (including Scottish) Empire was at its height the largest in history the death toll compared to other Empires was relatively small, especially once you consider improvements in infrastructure, medicine, sanitation and agriculture brought too
HYUFD
Why should Scotland suffer because your nation has a problem with racism and is hung up on a narrative of nostalgic, authoritarian, nationalism?
Xenophobia strongly linked to Brexit, regardless of voter age, gender or education
Study shows British citizens who fear immigrants were more likely to have voted to leave the EU, and identifies collective narcissism as a new voting variable
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171127090919.htm
Dr Jim I live in Epping not Epsom, different county, suggest you brush up on English geography. If I am elected to the town council next month I will also let you know
Thepnr So not Scotland only figures then, no
These are all very nice numbers and usually down south they’re reasonably accurate but in Scotland there’s a big difference, they never got close to predicting the 56
The Queen of campaigning hasn’t even started yet
Cameron B Brodie 55% of Scots voted to stay in the Union in 2014, not one resident of England had a vote, including me
@HYUFD
“If I am elected to the town council next month I will also let you know”
Hahaha unlucky mate, you’re about to become a three time loser and your hero Theresa May has done that to you. The Tories are going to take a hammering in the council elections.
Wishing you the best of luck but probably a Kipper will beat you to it and win the seat that should have been yours LOLOLOL
Epping Epsom? like I could give a F..k
Dr Jim The same Queen who lost a third of SNP seats at the 2017 general election?
A single Scottish poll you fruitcake. Man you really are thick 🙂
Hi HYUFD at 1:19 am.
You typed,
“The PNR[sic] Yes and their current Scottish prediction gives the SNP 46 seats on that very page not the 50 Brian Doonthetoon was claiming based on tonight’s poll”
As Thepnr pointed out, I am quoting from the LATEST Opinium poll from TONIGHT and Electoral Calculus’s prediction thereof – not one from a month ago.
Do you think we don’t get your spin?
Thepnr There is no UKIP candidate in my ward for the local elections, just LDs and Labour but thanks anyway.
Dr Jim I know you don’t but I still suggest you get out that atlas. Good night
Seich as a cuddy lik all o ye when yur losin
P.S. The British Empire was a joint venture but the only ones making real money were the mercantile Tory wanks. Everyone else was just getting by in an economy structured through colonial exploitation. Both overseas and at home.
The only atlas I’m interested in is the one that doesn’t include a country full of racist ravaged Tories
Is that it gone, it didn’t put up much of a fight tonight
As with the overseas colonies, Britain’s industrial society was structure through colonialism. However, Scotland’s experience of this since yoonyawn, has been that of supplicant subordinate. England, the rational paternalist.
Subsequently, most Scots aren’t afflicted with a Scots flavoured cultural chauvinism, quite the opposite (see the “cringe”). Then you have the yoons, a particularly historical throwback displaying a confused sense of loyalty and patriotism. 😉
HYUFD
“Cameron B Brodie 55% of Scots voted to stay in the Union in 2014, not one resident of England had a vote, including me”
Your nation has just decided to leave the EU and is determined to drag Scotland along with it. Scotland doesn’t share your nation’s racism or desire to leave the EU. Now have you got an argument against empirical Brexitology?
@ Thepnr at 12:51 am..
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/tory-mps-are-freaking-out-in-the-tea-rooms-about-what-the
Thanks for the link Thepnr. Looks as though Westminster’s imploding (exploding) without the help of Guy Fawks this time around, lol. Hell mend them. And well done to Nicola for hanging on in there.
…………..
@ K1 at 1:09am …. “India” …
Absolutely heartbreaking to read and you could quite easily just change the name from India to Scotland or for that matter from any country that they’ve managed to get their vicious, manipulative claws into over time versus Scotland.
“Break the very backbone of a Nation.” Experts in doing so right enough, eh? Got it right down to a Tee. Ten out of ten for being the Masters from Hell. And by God they’ve tried to break our backbone, but not succeeded, miraculous, and now it’s only a matter of time, SHORT, before we turn the tables on them. Break their bl**dy backbone as they lose their cash cow.
I often think of the damage that the US has done Worldwide, but it can’t EVER begin to compare with England. England like some kind of an evil demon that’s greedy, cruel and callous tentacles have permeated every country in the World one way or another and left nothing but absolute chaos and interminable misery behind them. Death and destruction. And it still goes on. Time for it to just die off now. Wither on the vine. An Independent Scotland, unshackled from that demon, could prove to be a shining light in this World by first and foremost ridding ourselves of weapons of mass destruction. And then there’s no stopping us. The good that we can do. Just imagine …..
And before I get off to bed the latest from WGD with a mention of India too and the not so Great British Empire. The brilliant Paul Kavanagh who’ll surely be at the forefront of our Independent Scottish media, one way or another. Thank God.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/04/13/the-real-question-for-scotland-in-brexit-britain/
Put the polls together of the numbers of UKIP and the Brexit party and they total 24% to the headcases and 17% Tory for the Euro elections with Labour on 29%
Just think if those percentages were to carry on into a GE and they haven’t even started building a campaign yet
Prime Minister Farage anyone?
“ Petra@ 0335,a.m.” the link you’ve kindly provided should be compulsive reading for all Scottish citizens.
Dear me, from elsewhere (about Indy Ref 2):
“ I for one don’t want to risk the damage that further failure would do . . .”
I can’t understand this craven attitude for the life of me,if you don’t try you can’t succeed, and if you fail you try again. Until you do succeed.
Whatever happened to guts, grit and determination? And that, by the way, from someone who normally has plenty of all three.
Like yesinyref2, I can’t understand the concept of not trying for independence. We lost the last referendum but it resulted in a huge increase in SNP support. I suggest that even if we do not succeed next time that it will not harm the independence movement, rather it would strengthen it.
Life has made me very cynical as a rule, but if everything is as it appears, I think it is a tremendous thing that Europe is prepared to run the risk of allowing nut-jobs like Farage to stand for Euro Elections and be prepared to accommodate the problems and disruption caused if and when it happens.
It seems to me that’s a very friendly thing that only an ally would do, especially when they know their sacrifice won’t be appreciated. It shows great maturity and self confidence, and frankly, I don’t think Europe has put a foot wrong in the way it has handled Brexit.
Maybe one foot… I think they should have recognised some degree of formal interlocutor status for Scotland, although I fear that omission is down to us rather than them.
I am also curious to understand how they can be so patient and well prepared to handle Brexit, yet from what I see, completely wrong footed by events in Catalonia. I think it would pay us to examine the EU’s attitude towards Spain and Catalonia. The EU’s stance seems illogical, and the EU doesn’t “do” illogical.
To put that into an immediate context, we all deride the “new” Constitution that’s being drawn up by the Unionist Establishment, but if it becomes law, as things currently stand, it will be the Constitution that is recognised, and the yardstick against which Scotland’s emancipation will considered lawful or unlawful. We might yet find ourselves in Catalonia ‘s position. I think we are safe, because Catalonia did sign up to the Spanish Constitution, whereas I can’t see Scotland ratifying any new Constitution prepared by Westminster, but we should be absolutely clear that Europe sees things the way we do.
I was going to quip that Westminster doesn’t do illogical either, but then again, Westminster has currently lost its marbles and cannot distinguish reality from delusion.
The FUD is an example of the Britnat Tory from down south in England trying to hold on to the idea that there is still a British empire no matter how small. A product of the education system that tells stories of the great empire that allows people like the FUD to say the British empire atrocities were not as bad as other empires. Try telling that to the relations of people throughout the world who were killed in atrocities perpetrated by the British Empire. The FUD tries to sell the idea that British tyranny is a better sort of tyranny than Jonny foreigner’s tyranny. Pathetic. It
The FUD comes on here and just repeats the same lies and misrepresentations. An example, he says no one resident in England had a vote in 2014. I dealt with this many many months ago and explained why this is not true but he just repeats it. He does this all the time. His lies are refuted but he just comes back months later and repeats them. In conclusion he is not interested in genuine debate but is on Wings to deliberately lie and misrepresent. He should be treated with the contempt he deserves.
Bill Hume at 0809 and yesindyref2 at 746
Totally agree. You need to do as Alex Salmond did, point the direction, say ‘that is where we are going’, and take the people with you. The starting position this time around is wayyyy much stronger than when Alex Salmond lead our movement.
Time for the fearties to get out of the way.
Cameron B Brodie Yet still few polls give Yes to independence the lead even after the Brexit vote, especially provided a No Deal Brexit is avoided which looks increasingly likely
“Ten reasons Scotland should be ashamed of itself” – writes Ian Johnston in the Scotsman.
Here are my 3 reasons we ought to be ashamed.
No1. We allow the Scotsman to call itself a newspaper.
No2. We allow the Scotsman to call itself Scottish.
No3. Some of us, very few in fairness, occasionally read the Scotsman.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17572347.on-the-trail-of-the-dark-money-which-funds-trump-davidson-and-brexit/
Speaks for itself really.
yesindyref2, Bill Hume and Robert Louis , thank you all. I was beginning to get saddened by comments , you lot have reminded me of the ‘up and at ’em ‘attitude required for freedom.
Petra It was called the British Empire not the English Empire for a reason. Scots provided generals, soldiers, civil servants and governors, merchants and engineers for the Empire and Scots played a key part in keeping the British Empire running. Indeed whatever its good or bad points there were far bloodier Empires than the British Empire from the Aztec Empire to the Mongol Empire, the Spanish Empire and Belgians in the Congo
Cubby If you own or rent a property in Scotland you have a residence in Scotland and thus an interest in the future of Scotland even if your primary residence is in England, so that does not refute the point
HYFUD is the Imperial Eag sorry vulture.
HYUFD at 9.00
Better to look at recent real polls like the two SNP gains and collapsing Labour and Tory votes. Nice to see “Ruth Davidson’s Conservative Party” (yes, they actually campaigned as that) in FOURTH place get a huge 10% of the vote in an Edinburgh by-election last week (just behind Labour who lost the seat to the SNP with the Greens in second place.
Sub samples on four recent polls have both Tory and Labour under 20% and the SNP winning between 50 and 56 of the 59 Scottish seats if there is a General Election. I think we’d probably win all 59.
But then again I’m in Scotland and you are not and you haven’t a clue.
Bill Hume says:
14 April, 2019 at 8:09 am
Like yesinyref2, I can’t understand the concept of not trying for independence. We lost the last referendum but it resulted in a huge increase in SNP support…
I fear too many of us are blinkered. They see Independence as winning one thing… a referendum.
Independence needs to be everywhere and everything.
Brexit should be paralysed by Scottish Independence. The BBC should be in the dock because of Scottish Independence. The Dark Money corrupting our political landscape should be hauled into the open by Scottish Independence. The plundering of Scotland’s resources should be interrupted by Scottish Independence. The exploitation of our people should be stopped by Scottish Independence. Scotland should be ungovernable by anyone except Scots.
Either we are Constitutionally sovereign people, or we are not. If we are, then get off our fkn knees and act like it.
Secure International recognition for Scottish Sovereignty, then when Scotland says no, it counts. When Scotland says yes, it counts. When Scotland says we’re staying in Europe, it counts. When Scotland says immigrants are welcome here and staying here, it counts. When Scotland says get out of our waters, the boats leave.
But no, let’s have a timid wee referendum, (only when we can win it mind!) which sets itself the superior to our Constitutional Sovereignty, and let’s have the debate and vote corrupted by monopolised indoctrination and news distortion, and have a result which may not even count because our right to be sovereign is unclear, misunderstood and disputed.
The ECJ heard a case from a Scottish Court and ruled Article 50 could be revoked as the sovereign prerogative of the state which submitted the Article 50 notification. Are you listening??? The UK is not a sovereign state it is a union between two sovereign states. FFS seek clarification whether Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty empowers Scotland to revoke Article 50 unilaterally, as mandated by the sovereign majority, because when the ECJ says yes, it is unequivocal Sovereign recognition of Scotland.
The ECJ will have to determine if Scotland is sovereign or is not, and when the ECJ is obliged to do that, so is the EU, and all Michel Barnier’s efforts are superseded and undone because Brexit is undeliverable because there is no longer a single UK entity to which it all applies.
Make the world react to what Scotland decides, because that’s what being sovereign actually means.
No weekend pass this weekend guys hmmm lol
Shhh but a little birdie told me you had better get used to it 😉
One thing the slew of polls in recent weeks guarantee…May won’t be calling a snap election. Jeremy might not be polling well enough to win but May would certainly lose and here in Scotland the woeful Unionists would pay a heavy price. So unfortunately I doubt we will get a bite of that cherry.
Dave McEwan Hill @ 9.36 am
Oh can you just see their faces!
Research after the vote confined to residents in Scotland showed a far closer result than 55/45 than buyers remorse would allow.
One reason for not having exit polls.
One reason we can be certain that there was a large postal vote from those outwith Scotland
I think I heard mention of a 70/30 on postal voting. Might actually have been from Davidson during her ill advised gloating.
If I have my way the only people getting a vote the next time will be those with a Scottish tax code. Doesn’t matter if your unemployed or retired. As long as you’re prepared to pay for the upkeep of this country you get a say.
When will it dawn on Brexiters that they really are leaving the Big Boys’ table.
http://archive.is/uzJ7Q
Those inconvenient English local elections.
Two elections and a lot of confused voters… the view from Hatfield
http://archive.is/REMaJ
@ K1 1.09 – brilliant quote – should be posterised and circulated far and wide.
Well said/written Breeks!! 09.44
FGS! Radio shortbread gives Professor ‘Sked’? Founder of UKip a full interview to spout his views in the land where they are polling less than 3%.
Anyhoo! He’s a noble Scot and ex Liberal who wants to see a country in charge of its own laws and decisions.
Err! But not you Scotland. 🙂
Get a grip Auntie wie a kilt ask him a proper question!
Breeks@9.44am
There you go again, a long winded SNP USELESS rant, when you have previously admitted you have no idea that these things have not already been prepared for on the quiet or looked into by some of the many legal brains in the SNP.
I am stunned that you are not the FM of Scotland, since you seem to know better than everyone on the indy question and solutions.
Lets make it clear, this is your opinion/idea.
It is NOT a legal certainty only you seem to know about.
It may be possible, but not in the way you suggest, or, perhaps it is simply not required and the Scotsgov/SNP/EU have came up with an easier way ?
Why does your way have to be THE only way and all else is SNP USELESS, which is what you project every time you post a rant based on your opinion ?
@HYUFD 09:06
The British empire, to which Scots made a significant contribution, was rather less ‘brutal’ than the Mongol Khanates but the end result, conquest, annexation, exploitation and domination, was the same.
India was a rather good exemplar of how it all worked. The classical world principle of divide et impera was deployed rather more than the sword or gun but both came in handy when the natives got restless and as in the case of General Dyer and the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre might be deployed together. In that event the British soldiers were drawn from the Sikh, Baluchi, Rajput and Gurkha ethnicities. They might have turned their guns on Dyer, that representative of their thraldom, but they didn’t.
The lesson for Scots in all this is that many among the populace are quite content with the comfortable auto-pilot thraldom offered by the status quo and are prepared to service it in defiance of all wisdom and logic.
Hi Folks,
Please read this
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/india-s-amritsar-massacre-bore-the-made-in-ireland-mark-1.3856007.
one quote still resonates.
“A lot of people decided [after Amritsar] that power could no longer be shared with the British – Gandhi among them. They [the British] had to leave. It was also the time that people turned violent because asking nicely didn’t work anymore.”
Is that what the Britnats want here in Scotland?
Andrew Marr
David Lammy Labour MP accuses the Tories Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg and others of being Nazis then David Lidington Tory MP and deputy comes on and tells us the Conservative party are the *National* party
I thought they didn’t like the word *National* because that definitely meant you were a Nazi
Well they’re never done inferring it about the SNP
Dave McEwan Hill Even if the SNP won almost every MP in Scotland it would not make that much difference as 2015 proved. Of more significance are the Holyrood polls showing a strong chance of a Unionist majority in 2021. Indeed a Progress Scotland poll earlier this month had support amongst Scots for independence at just 30% with 50% opposed, rising to 63% opposed to 37% in favour excluding Don’t Knows. The same poll had only 40% of Scots wanting another independence referendum in the next 5 years
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4071150/scottish-independence-support-dropped-snp-survey-polls/
OT re.(white) British nationalism. Do Scots really want their children’s future determined by Britain’s structural social problems, predominantly England’s?
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/sociology/staff/summaries/virinderkalra/kolkata/stuart_hall_cultural_studies.pdf
The Empire Strikes Back
Race and racism in 70s Britain
eprints.mdx.ac.uk/17671/1/EmpireStrikesBack%201982.pdf
BEING BLACK IN A WHITE WORLD: UNDERSTANDING RACISM
IN BRITISH UNIVERSITIES
https://www.ucu.org.uk/media/8841/Being-Black-in-a-White-World-Understanding-Racism-in-British-Universities/pdf/Being_black_in_a_white_world_Understanding_Racism_in_British_Universities.pdf
Tackling the roots of racism: lessons for success
https://www.jrf.org.uk/file/35924/download?token=bpM-apzb&filetype=findings
The British Government in the detention of Julian Assange.
Theresa May announced in Parliament that his arrest shows that “nobody in Britain is above the law”.
Yep nobody except Maggie Thatcher who illegally gave her sons company a UK funded £30 Million contract in Malaya before filling it under top secret.
Then there is Tony Blair and the illegal war that he bought to ingratiate himself with the Bush personal finance contacts.
How about the old Duke of Edinburgh’s driving offence that was dropped?
Carmichael’s £1 Million French Gate lie,
and the Tory stooge who illegally broke the law to try and trap Alex Salmond by creating new legislation?
All the above doesn’t count but a guy who gave us access to truthful and immoral actions by government and financiers should be imprisoned?
Not in my name Westminster.
Sooner I see the back of you the better!
@Robert Kerr 11:26am
If any group in Scotland were to employ violence that would be exactly what the Tories would love to give themselves the excuse of *having to do what they’d have to do do* to keep the peace you understand, because they’re very big on peace they keep telling us
Two non replied e-mails certainly made an impression. SNP bad. From the one who stated continually Scotland/UK would be out of the EU 29th March. Never happened. Along with all the other non predictions. Fantasy land. Just a lot of hot air. Haven’t got a clue.
Poopy pants
30% of those who don’t vote will really make a difference. They will decide the IndyRef. Not any polled figures.
O/T
Another Emeritus House Jock, this time Alan Sked, founder of UKIP on GMS this morning. He followed the stunningly inarticulate Rachel Watson from the ‘Scottish’ Daily Mail and some other apologist ‘reviewing’ ie promoting the papers. ‘Lovely’ articles on Jackie Bird got the thumbs up.
Give me strength.
Some more stuff.
Migration, Racism and Identity: The Caribbean Experience in Britain
https://newleftreview.org/issues/I193/articles/winston-james-migration-racism-and-identity-the-caribbean-experience-in-britain
Fans, racism and British football in the 21st century:
the existence of a colour-blind ideology
https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/dspace-jspui/bitstream/2134/12124/3/Fans%2C%20Racism%20and%20British%20Footbal.pdf
Hidden from public view: racism against UK Chinese
shura.shu.ac.uk/10529/1/Cole_Hidden_From_Public_View_-_English.pdf
Reframing Racism
Explaining ethnic inequalities in the UK labour market
https://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/Runnymede%20Reframing%20Racism%20TUC%20briefing.pdf
In a couple of weeks Scotlands FM will make her plans known on the case for Scottish Independence and how fortuitously for us all newspapers known NOT to support Independence have some polls to show us all there’s no support
Remember Rory Stuart Tory MP on the radio folks who said *I just made up those figures to emphasise my point*
If I had a poll of my street around 60% of people would be against Independence but that’s because my particular street is full to the brim with single elderly Tory Labour pensioners, but if I went to the next street it would be around 70% for Independence because they actually have families and taxpayers in those houses and access to information in the world
David Lammy declining to back down on the Marr show.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1117371973112225793
@HUYFD
If it had been left to the people of the ex imperial colonies the status quo would have probably prevailed. People tend to stick with what they are familiar with. Experimenting with new concepts, especially in constitutional matters, is not a majority interest.
The human race is conservative by nature. In certain areas not a bad thing, however when that conservatism, generally personal self-interest, clashes with the wider national interest it might be styled perverse and self-defeating.
Authentic politics is about pushing the boundaries. Taking risks and defying that conservative trend among the masses however dressed up as the democratic ‘will’.
A nationalist leadership with sufficient ‘charisma’ and imagination could wipe the floor with the opposition. Such was certainly effective in those ex-colonies and could be so in a Scotland prepared to shed the constraints of conventional, safety first British style politics.
geeo says:
14 April, 2019 at 10:59 am
Breeks@9.44am
There you go again…
So you’re allowed to ask questions, but I’m not. How does that work Geeo? What makes you special?
The collapse of the Tory vote in this poll, indicates that a lot of people have been unsure how Brexit would go so have been holding fire until they see how things ‘pan out’
Now that they are not getting rid of the foreigners and having £350 million spent on the ‘foreigner free NHS, as they thought would happen, they have turned their backs on the Tories and switched to Ukip or Farages lot.
Together UKIP/Farage, are more than the Tories, so the only way they will be able to fight back is to go even more right wing, YES THAT’S RIGHT, the Tories will need to become even more right wing than they already are if they want to get back into power!
The question we need to ask ourselves is this:
Would they be prepared to shift further to the right,
or are they far to fair minded, and will instead be prepared to stand on principle even if it means losing their seats/powers?
Lash them to within an inch of their lives but never take the last inch so they’ll be grateful
@Mike Cassidy
Mr Lammy didn’t miss an hit the wossiname.
Good catch.
Neatly done Chris. Toon is a perfect summation of the current omnishambles.
The full-English Brexit has empowered forces that threaten to undo decades of work aimed at understanding and tackling Britain’s colonial legacy of structural racism. British nationalism is now largely the preserve of reactionary xenophobes, so do Scots want the future of their children to be crippled through cultural intolerance?
Defining Islamophobia
A Policy Exchange Research Note
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Defining-Islamophobia.pdf
Islamophobia and its effects on British South Asian Muslims post 9/11
https://e-space.mmu.ac.uk/576503/1/Akhtar%20(Rumana)%202011%20(MMU.pdf
Evidence and ideology: moderating the critique of media Islamophobia
eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/29175/3/E%2526I%20as%20to%20JE.pdf
IDENTITIES AND SENSE OF BELONGING OF MUSLIMS IN BRITAIN
Using Survey Data, Cognitive Survey Methodology, and In-Depth Interviews
https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:2f83a760-1090-406a-bb59-5478c90c5954/datastreams/THESIS01
Ottomanboi There is a bit of a difference between Scotland, whose Parliament asked England to create the Union in 1707 in the first place and which neighbours England and most of whose exports go to England and former British colonies on the other side of the globe
HYUFD
This is the 21st century, trot on Toryboy.
Provoking Scotland would be foolish to say the least. With Northern Ireland they had a far smaller pool of potential terrorists and a sea between them and England. Whilst unionists in Scotland might like to be belligerent and imply that military force could be deployed their problem would be that if it came to that stage the only locals the night be able to rely on would have links to the Orange Order. Anyone else would be prone to the reaction they try to hijack of Scotland dropping infighting when a common enemy appeared.
The scale of potential suspects would be far greater than Islamic fundamentals of Irish republicans and simply saying Catholic or Prod wouldn’t help.
The border would probably have to be closed making things interesting to say the least. Given the benefits of free trade and travel would disappear.
In extreme attacks on infrastructure might see lines to England cut so no power went south. Obviously guards could be out on them but that’d cost.
A military suppression of Scotland would be a foolish thing to actually attempt. Even threatening it simply raises hackles and if the intent is to counter a move towards independence seems counterproductive. And to steal a phrase from this youtu.be/KoBk8bxU1rs wur in amongst thon awreddy.
HYUFUD
You claim to have voted to remain in the EU but appear unconcerned that the British constitution has been hijacked with dark money. Why might that be?
Islamophobia, Racism and Critical Race Theory
https://www.palermo.edu/Archivos_content/2016/Economicas/journal-tourism/edicion15/02_RacismWithinMulti-culturalSociety.pdf
Orientalism at home: Islamophobia in the representations of Islam and Muslims by the New Labour Government
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1468796814525379
#Islamexit: Islamophobia and Twitter after Brexit
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/02/28/islamexit-islamophobia-and-twitter-after-brexit/
Countering Islamophobia through the development of counter-narratives
https://www.ihrc.org.uk/research/17826-countering-islamophobia-through-the-development-of-counter-narratives-2/
Saying that a country is the biggest “importer” of goods from another says nothing about the power dynamic between them.
For a start that might not be voluntary. For another it may obviously be economic as that’s the best deal. Asking the rUK to cut of their noses to spite their faces in boycotting Scottish produce should it be the cheapest option post Brexit and as retaliation for achieving independence is farcical.
If Brexit goes ahead Scotland would be in a far stronger position in dealing with the rUK and EU than before. For one thing the Spanish Veto never existed other than as a proxy for the rUK doing so. For another Scotland as an EU or EEFTA member would be in whatever trade deal the rUK could get with them.
@HYUFD
Patently you know little of Scotland’s rather complex history and its often fraught relationship with its neighbour or indeed how the British empire functioned in its early privateering stage and its later nationalised Disraelian form. Your seeming obsession with trade is characteristic of a utilitarian mindset, one that actually underpinned the imperialist exploitation of the colonies, of which Scotland, in all but name, might be numbered.
By the way Scotland did not ask for the Union. English subversion eg notoriously the activities of Daniel Foe, punitive embargoes affecting the Scottish economy and at the time a rather weak central government were among elements contributing to the pre-union scenario. The 18th century was a period of civil unrest in Scotland and It was not until well into the 19th century that Scotland might be said have been pacified and resigned to the political union with England: then the great migrations began.
HYUFD says:
14 April, 2019 at 1:30 pm
“There is a bit of a difference between Scotland, whose Parliament asked England to create the Union in 1707 in the first place”
I am sorry to interrupt the conversation, but this is something that interests me greatly. Please could you point me in the right direction as to where exactly is the Act of the Parliament of Scotland that proves that the Parliament of Scotland actually “asked” England to create the Union? Because you see, the impression I have got from what I have read so far in history books is the precise opposite. It was the envoys of England the ones that were desperate to get the union going to stop Scotland being the entry door for foreign armies to invade England and of course to stop their fear that the Scots would choose a non protestant monarch. I would very much appreciate if you were so kind as to tell me the exact acts of the Parliament of Scotland that show how this parliament actually asked England for the union. I was under the idea that Scotland’s parliament did not “ask” for the union but rather “accepted” the union after some “generous” displays of patronage by the English establishment, strategy that is being used still today.
“most of whose exports go to England”
My I kindly ask, how do you know this? Do you have the UK treasury books for your authority in the matter? Again, I apologise for sticking my nose onto the conversation, but this is a subject that totally fascinates me, the concept of how can somebody be so sure as to how many “exports” of Scotland go to England if we are not even provided with the actual UK treasury books that prove this information or the actual final destination of those products.
I mean, we are all aware that even when Scotland has more coastline than England, bizarrely, those in control of this union appear to have created and maintained more ports in England than in Scotland, so much so, that the main international ports of the uK are all in England.
The problem with this arrangement is that most Scotland produce that is exported out of the UK, has to do so from some of those English ports, so here is a question, how are those “exports” really accounted for? Are they accounted as Scottish exports to England and then also accounted as England exports abroad? You see, things like this would be clarified instantly if we were only provided with the UK Treasury books.
Then there is another matter. I have some kind of obsession with where the products come from. I like to read the packages and check where the product comes from – I am very conscientious with regards of miles travel of the product. Lately not only I have been paying attention to where the product comes from, but also where it is packaged. because that adds to the miles. I was very disappointed to find out that a good proportion of Scottish produce is actually packed in England and some of our animals are not slaughtered in Scotland but somewhere down in England and Wales. After packaging the product comes back to our supermarkets to be sold to us. So, again, I am quite curious to know how is all this movement of Scottish produce accounted for? Do they also count as “exports” to England and then “imports” from England when they are packed and processed? Again, the uK treasury books would be very handy on this.
I mean, clarifying this is very important because we may have been given completely distorted figures that are overinflating the actual number of “exports” that England makes abroad and the “exports” that Scotland has been making to England. Why is this important? Well, because in an independent Scotland, Scotland will not need to “export” its produce via foreign ports nor “export” its own produce to be prepared and packaged in England, giving jobs and extra revenue to England, only to be brought back to Scotland. It can be packaged and prepared in Scotland, so those would be “exports” to England and “imports” from England that would immediately disappear from the books. So one has to really wonder how much of that “60%” arbitrary figure peddled by British Nationalists as the amount exported to the kingdom of England from Scotland is actually true. And I say “arbitrary” because it does not give you any indication of what is essential exporting like smoked salmon, whisky, oil, Scottish meat etc, etc exported abroad, and what is unnecessary exporting, such as the “exports” from Scotland to England only for slaughtering, preparing and packaging, or only to reach England’s international ports to depart the UK.
Now, I am puzzled as to why you don’t mention anything about imports. Imports are as interesting as exports. Imports are bargaining chips. Why? Because if Scotland is going to cut a trade deal with another country, what that country is probably going to be more interested in is how much it can export to Scotland and how much profit it can make out of it. In other words, how much is the value of Scotland for England’s economy in terms of its imports and the jobs created because of those imports? You see, should England cease to trade with Scotland for whatever reasons, and it is really the imports what may make Scotland attractive to other countries rather than its exports. So, how much is Scotland importing from England now that it can offer to import from somewhere else in the future if independent? In other words, how much is the Kingdom of England standing to lose in trade with Scotland if the current English gov goes for May’s dodgy deal with the EU or no deal? I mean we have to account for the possibility that an isolated Kingdom of England will have no choice but to cut some dodgy, toxic deal with USA and reduce its food standards, completely kiboshing the possibility of England exporting to a Scotland in the EU with higher standards. That is to say, the Kingdom of England may be risking losing ALL its exports to the EU. Yet, nothing is being said about this and all the focus is always on what Scotland “exports” to England and what it stands “to lose”. This is puzzling because trading is a two-way operation. This over-focusing in one direction of the operation makes me wonder what the other direction is hiding that they don’t want us to see.
So, let’s forget for a moment about Scotland “exports” and concentrate in the Kingdom of England’s exports to Scotland. “imports” from Scotland only to export back to Scotland after packing and exports from English ports “on behalf” of Scotland:
how much does it really stand to lose and why is this never mentioned?
@ stu mac says at 9:02 am ….. ”Speaks for itself really.”
http://www.thenational.scot/news/17572347.on-the-trail-of-the-dark-money-which-funds-trump-davidson-and-brexit/
Thanks for posting that great article by Adam Ramsay, Stu. It speaks for itself right enough: –
….”Adam Ramsay points out that their dark money investigations have exposed how the offshore money that’s been hidden in the loopholes of Britain’s constitution has started to shape the UK’s politics. They have shown how Britain’s institutions, captured as they are by the rich and powerful, are not really capable of regulating the rich and powerful.”….
This article shows, for one, how lack of a written Constitution, differing piece meal powers being devolved to NI, Wales and Scotland (in the latter case Company Law is still reserved to Westminster) and the concerted effort by the BritNat supporting MSM in particular the BBC, ensure that the electorate have no idea of what’s actually going on in this country …. the insidious corruption and lies … which have led to the current mess that we find ourselves in.
…. ”Despite the BBC spending nearly a billion pounds a year on current affairs programming, surveys show that roughly 0% of us understand the basics of our structures of governance.” ….
More than anything they manage to get away with it due to the Establishment closing ranks and that includes the MET Police.
The issue for us now is how do we get such ”knowledge” out there beyond the readership of the National, visitors to this site and our little tete-a-tetes? I, for one, am hoping that this type of ”information” will be included in Stu’s wee (coloured) book and the sooner that we get the book out there the sooner support for Independence will start rising. So what are we waiting for?
Breeks@12.10pm
Except, you are not asking questions, are you ?
You are hiding behind your theory to promote a constant supply of “SNP USELESS” / “SNP FAILING SCOTLAND” mantra on a virtually daily basis.
Lets not forget, it was the SNP who delivered an indyref in 2014, as mandated.
WE let THEM down NOT the other way around.
The SNP have a mandate to deliver an indyref BY 2021, although, events will clearly presume that mandate to be exercised sooner than 2021.
A motion to dissolve the Treaty of Union, at Holyrood, can happen virtually overnight, if it is deemed required to protect our Sovereign expressed will to Remain in the EU.
All it needs is a caveat, to hold an affirmitory plebiscite later, but at that moment, the Treaty is over, as you are IN a treaty or OUT a treaty, and as a Government minister recently said, nobody can stop one partner in a treaty, withdrawing from said treaty.
As the reconvened Scottish Parliament of 1707, MSP’s have an authoritive right to protect the Scottish people’s best interests, and as the elected representatives of the Sovereign people, they have a DUTY to do so.
In my opinion, i believe this is where we are heading, and i also believe Scotsgov and the EU have had discussions about what the EU would do if that is the road we travel .
If that idea is true, that could explain the utter conviction of Ian Blackford at WM in recent weeks when he states “Scotland’s people are sovereign, not this place, and they voted to remain in the EU and they will not be leaving the EU against that sovereign will”.
That authoritive step change in attitude did not come out of nowhere.
FUD just keeps coming with the lies. A perfect example of the Fact that Britnats lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.
Maria F The Scottish Parliament asked the Parliament of England to join the Union seeking financial assistance after the collapse of the Darien Scheme.
Scottish exports (excluding oil and gas) to countries outside the UK have a combined value of £22 billion while exports (excluding oil and gas) to England, Wales and Northern Ireland total £44.9 billion.
https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0038/00385828.pdf
Bucket loads of John Bull shit on here today. I guess thoughts of that Indian massacre have got their adrenalin rushing.
How’s your Brexit going chaps? Lol.
@HYUFD
You really do talk total uninformed ignorant crap.
@ geeo says at 3:57 pm … ”Breeks@12.10pm – Except, you are not asking questions, are you? You are hiding behind your theory to promote a constant supply of “SNP USELESS” / “SNP FAILING SCOTLAND” mantra on a virtually daily basis.”..
It’s called GASLIGHTING. Used by people to get their real message across through trying to camouflage it (unsuccessfully in this case) amongst a load of, again in this case, ”sovereignty gobbledygook”. Gobbledygook, the excessive use of technical terms, being employed with the aim of impressing and confusing people.
The ability to revoke Article 50 came about through the ECJ because it referred to the UK which is one of 28 EU Member States. THE Member State that has been involved in International treaty making with the EU over a period of 46 years. Scotland is NOT one of the 28 EU Member States which means that we’ve not been involved solely in Treaty making with the EU. Scotland, to THEM …. the EU …. is PART OF a Member State, i.e. the UK. What’s not to get about this?
Leading EU individuals, and EU MEP’s, have already stated that they won’t get involved in internal UK constitutional matters, whilst indicating that they’d be happy to welcome an Independent Scotland into their fold.
”INDEPENDENT” being the key word.
..”The Spanish Foreign minister Josep Borrell says that the government in Madrid would not stand in the way of independent Scotland joining the EU.”..
http://www.thenational.scot/news/17235220.spanish-foreign-minister-declares-an-independent-scotland-would-be-welcome-in-eu/
..”Scotland would be “most welcome“ to join the EU if it voted for independence, according to a group of 50 politicians.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scotland-indepedent-eu-member-welcome-meps-indyref2-referendum-european-parliament-a7675976.html
And as I’ve said before if we want to become Independent we need over 50% of the Scottish Electorate to support such a cause. To dissolve the Union before there is proof to that effect is a recipe for disaster. To imagine that the EU, the World in fact, will recognise us as being a sovereign nation in our own right BEFORE we get our Independence demonstrates a fantastical way of thinking or in this case one of deception. The SNP is the only political party capable of getting us there, so why would any Independence supporter constantly try to undermine them? Ask yourself that. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work it out.
Jesus Christ, HYFUD has even quote a paper going way back to 2012 – the last resort of the desperate untionist – out of date data. What an arse.
I got it wrong. It’s not 2012. The survey was in 2010.
2010 dickwad, 2010. 9 years ago!
Fuddy still talking out his rump i see.
Scotland/England/Wales/N.I. do not export to each other, they are a unitary market of the same entity, the United Kingdom.
Just like there is no Uk ‘single market’.
And fuddy wants people to vote him in as their councillor..!!
Tory talent pool exposed to the level of mouth breathers it seems.
Yesindyref2 Data as accurate now as it was then unless you can prove different
“ HYUFD says:
14 April, 2019 at 7:02 pm
Yesindyref2 Data as accurate now as it was then unless you can prove different”
A classic example of SDS – Self-Defined Stupidity. Annual data doesn’t change from 2010 to 2019! Like wow, man, and this wants to be a town councillor? God help Epping.
“This building I’m in which hasn’t been maintained is as safe as it was 200 years ago”.
“Oh sh…”
Yesindyref2 Thankyou for confirming you do not have any figures that dispute those I posted then. Scotland’s export destinations are not going to completely change in less than a decade
@FUDDY
Oh dear, you just poohed your nappy, Nurse!
You wrote: “Scottish exports (excluding oil and gas) to countries outside the UK have a combined value of £22 billion while exports (excluding oil and gas) to England, Wales and Northern Ireland total £44.9 billion.”
Current (2018) figures:
“Scotland’s international exports (excluding oil and gas) increased in 2017 by £1.9 billion (6.2 per cent) from £30.6 billion in 2016 to £32.4 billion in 2017. Scotland’s exports to the rest of the UK also increased in 2017, up £2.2 billion (4.6%) to £48.9 billion.”
https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication
See the trend? You’re not very good at this, are you?
Do you want to ask the audience?
Sorry, my bad, 2017 figures not 2018 figures. Indications were that the gap had narrowed even more in 2018, and this is 2019 – not 2010.
Your point was, caller?
yesindyref2. Good to see Scottish exports to the RUk are up. And we do not need to pay an annual fee to anyone. Trade is good but additional Parliaments are not required to necessitate trade. The EU Parliament will kill itself eventually. They are wasters and know it.
HYUFD says:
14 April, 2019 at 5:25 pm
thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my comment with the extra information. There are a couple of things however, if you don’t mind, that I would wish to point out:
You said “The Scottish Parliament asked the Parliament of England to join the Union seeking financial assistance after the collapse of the Darien Scheme”
Sorry, that does not agree with what I have read and that is why I am seeking proof. According to what I have read, the collapse of the Darien Scheme may have been a contributing factor to “encourage” some of those who faced money loses in Scotland to make up their minds – as a matter of fact, in some history books the Darien Scheme fiasco is clearly presented not as a Scottish enterprise doomed to failure but rather as an enterprise for which external forces engineered it to fail in order to coerce the Scottish Parliament into accepting the union. You know the rest, the “bribes” allegedly to help cover some of the money lost. What I am seeking here is the official document, actually the Act of Parliament that states what you say, that it was the Parliament of Scotland who sought the union and not the other way round, which is what I understand from what I have read. If the Parliament of Scotland “asked” England to “join” the union, it must have been officially and there must be official documents to prove it. So, can I be a pain and ask again if you are aware about such documents or have your read them and you can tell me where they are or you are just simply repeating what has been the “official” unionist version? At this point I am not interested in the “official” version – we have been let down by the “official” versions many times before, so I want to see the actual documents and judge by myself, that is all.
Many thanks for providing the link for the trade paper. I have had a quick glance at it and I will read it in more depth as it is interesting. But it is interesting from many perspectives, actually. Unfortunately, it simply helps to prove my point that we are here moving yet again with estimates, not real figures which is really what I am after. In the very first page of the document it already states several important things:
1) “The Global Connections Survey was carried out by the Scottish Government with support from Scottish Development International. Results are based on data received from around 2,200 companies”
This means that only a fraction of the total of companies in Scotland took part in the survey, so it is not an in depth, exhaustive and comprehensive study. These are not real figures, they are therefore estimates. This is confirmed in the body of the text itself:
“Scottish international exports in 2010 (excluding oil and gas) are provisionally ESTIMATED (my emphasis) at £22.0 billion”
So a few things from there:
1. The paper was written in 2012, but the data is actually for as far back as 2010!! Can we actually trust this data? This paper claims that the total international exports for Scotland are only £22 bn. If you look in the UK trade information website
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx
You will find that the last figure of international exports for Scotland for the year to December 2018 was 30.3 bn. So that is an increase of 38% from the data provided by the paper. That is a hell of an increase!!!
2. it excludes oil and gas – why? Those are products extracted from Scottish continental shelf, so why are they not included in the whole value of exports? They should be there and ALL of them, every drop of oil extracted from Scotland’s continental shelf, including the 6000 sq miles of Scotland’s territorial waters stolen from Scotland. – Again, if you look at the website for the UK gov trade per region (https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx), you will see that it clearly states
“Note: United Kingdom figures include trade that cannot be allocated to a region”
I wonder how much of “that” is actually Scotland’s oil and gas. If you are a nosey parker as I am, you would immediately calculate the exports of all “regions” and compare it with the “United Kingdom figures” and you would find a suspicious discrepancy of almost 32 bn, again, would this be the “extra-regio” aka Scotland’s oil? Can you imagine if you add that to the accounted 30.3 bn that the UK gov acknowledges Scotland to export to international markets? According to that website, Scotland has imports from international markets for a value of just 25.3 bn. If those 32 bn extra “that the UK gov reckons cannot be allocated to a particular region of the UK” are in fact from Scotland’s oil, then Scotland would have an obscene surplus of trade of goods of almost 40 bn – McCrone Report springs to mind.
So yeah, I can see why the UK gov wants to call the 32 bn as “extra regio”.
3. the paper talks about “estimates”. At this point I do not longer trust “estimates” I am afraid – GERS is also based in “estimates” that completely destroy any informative value the figures may have for me. I am seeking the actual, the real figures. Do you know if anybody apart from the UK gov has them?
4. There is no information whatsoever in the paper about imports: as I indicated above, imports are as important as exports and provide us with a wealth of information.
5. I question the reliability of the data, not just because how old this publication is, but because within the paper itself there is this warning:
“Rest of UK exports should be interpreted with caution. The methodology used is exactly
the same as for international exports, however as companies have no statutory
requirement to collate financial information below UK level it can be more difficult to
ascertain the final destination of sales within the UK. Furthermore, particular sectors
face challenges in determining what constitutes an ‘export’. In an Intra-UK situation, this
is particularly the case in the service sector where output is harder to quantify and the
residence of the final consumer is less clear. Complex supply chains can also be
problematic, particularly in avoiding challenges from double-counting. Improving the
identification of such exports is an ongoing development, and further work is planned
prior to future publication. Users will be kept informed of any developments.”
And here is the key point of my comment above, that the paper does not resolve at all:
What do companies understand as rUK “exports”? Are Scottish food products that are taken to England to be prepared and packed only to be brought back to Scotland to be sold in its supermarkets understood as “exports”? Are Scottish products sent to England distribution centers that will then send them abroad via England’s ports also considered as “rUK exports”? Unfortunately this paper does not solve that.
There is another warning in the paper and that is in the section of the “Respondents comments”. It says that of the 371 companies that provided a company, as much as 40 had an issue splitting Scotland’s figures from the UK and quantifying exports – so again, we are looking at estimates that may have nothing to do with the real values.
This section also claims that as many as 38 companies had issues with the organisational structure of the company to be able to produce export figures. This means when the company is part of a large corporation and The Scottish part of the business may not be able to access the sales figures or able to split Scottish figures from the UK company.
So there we go, these figures are not reliable, I am sorry to say. Clearly the Scottish government was trying to start setting up a structure to gain the information, and that is very commendable, but the paper is just that, a starting point.
I want to know until what extend England’s economy relies on Scotland. We will never find that out from the “estimates” the UK gov has airbrushed and polished to show their side of the story and we will not find that out until the moment every company in Scotland, no matter if is part of a corporation or not, is expected to provide accurate figures for Scotland, not estimates based in the population.
I am sure you will agree with me that we cannot talk about the prospects of a country if you still need to resource to “estimates” of the exports that actually happened 2 years before (the paper was written in 2012, but the data refers to 2010). I would have hoped that 2 years after the event, the UK gov would have real, accurate figures of the ACTUAL exports so the Scottish gov would not have to rely on “estimates”.
Thanks very much for the link. It was very useful to see the state of affairs in this matter. It confirms that we still do not have accurate date on exports.
@Mad
Absolutely, though in real terms £100 in 2010 would need to be £121.88 – an increase of 21.88%, whereas the rUK exports increased by £4 billion from £44.9 billion, an increase of only 9% – an effective DROP of 12% in real terms.
Compared to an increase in exports outside the UK of £8.6 billion from £22 billion – an increase of 39% – 18% ABOVE the real terms value in 2017.
Unionists and statistics, eh, Mad?
yesindyref2 says:
14 April, 2019 at 8:39 pm
“Scotland’s international exports (excluding oil and gas) increased in 2017 by £1.9 billion (6.2 per cent) from £30.6 billion in 2016 to £32.4 billion in 2017”
Aha!!! “excluding oil and gas” those figures look remarkably similar to the ones attributed by the UK gov to Scotland as “international exports”.
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx
he, he, he, this to means the “discrepancy” between the sum of what the “UK regions” export and what the “UK” exports, aka the mysterious 32 bn, really is the revenue from Scotland oil and gas that, of course, the UK gov cannot bring itself to acknowledge it belongs to Scotland. This to me also means Scotland is in a ridiculous surplus of trade of goods and of course it also means that the idea that Scotland exports more to the rUK when you factor in the “extra regio” oil and gas, is simply bollocks.
yesindyref2. An increase of only 9% but a decrease in real terms. You Jocks love figures. I am sure the punters will decide their vote on figures!
@Mad Unionist
Indeed, we invented economics after all – and set up the Bank of England. Arguable we invented money, but others can claim the same. You’re well name but finny – in a good way usually.
@Maria F
I tend to quote stats from official sources, the trned of exports is indeed to increase our international exports and the SDI and the likes of VisitScotland, Chamber of Commerce and others, and of course Sturgeon work hard to do so – with Sturgeon doing the US earlier this year, then Paris. It takes time to work through into the economy, though even my micro business likely got s few of its recent small export orders on account of such activity (US anyway).
GERS too shows trends in the right direction in “onshore” deficit which is semi-independent of including geographical oil revenues.
But yes, these can be debated for accuracy and correct representation, specially considering GERS is not on an accruals basis which even the FoAI (with Graeme Roy – ex head of GERS as Director) admitted would show a difference, albeit they “thought” a small one.
It’s kind of two different but connected arguments.
Unionists really like old data, clearly some of them at least have enough sense to see that trends are really NOT in the Union’s favour – nor of the NO vote. It’s always worth checking the date of anything they quote 🙂
funny not finny, unless you’re mad as a fish?
GERS is a load of Britnat propaganda mince.
I like mince and tatties. Prefer my wife’s shepherd pie right enough 🙂
I do make a mean stovies, long time since the last one I made …
Yesindyref2 So still £18 billion more of Scottish exports went to the rest of the UK last year than the rest of the world combined even on those figures
@HYDUF
£16.5 billion in 2017 actually, not £18 billion. When I said:
“Compared to an increase in exports outside the UK of £8.6 billion from £22 billion – an increase of 39% – 18% ABOVE the real terms value in 2017.” what I should have said is:
“Compared to an increase in exports outside the UK of £10.4 billion from £22 billion – an increase of 47% – 26% ABOVE the real terms value in 2017.”
My mistake, yours too, as the figure were there in my posting above that for 2017 compared to 2016.
But as you can see, in one year international increased by 6.2% compared to rUK 4.6%, so international is catching up 🙂
Good innit, seeing as how the rUK runs a negative balance of trade, whereas Scotland runs a positive one! (as does NI). Dem Maria’s posting:
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx
The rUK really is a lost cause, propped up only by Scotland and NI.
Where you live, the East od England is one of the worst culprits for contributing a negative balance of trade to the UK.
Dem? From!
Based on the chart linked too, the UK’s top 3 regions for exports are London, the South East and the West Midlands, then Scotland (just ahead of the East). So Scotland only does well on balance of trade because it does not consume so many imports not because it is a vast exporter
HYUFD
Would you please do us a favour an run along with your piddling little, utilitarian, ‘fact’. What about the Moral Law, Toryboy?
Mad Unionist
“You Jocks love figures.”
I thought you were a moderate-left Glaswegian? What’s the game?
@HYUFD
As I said, Scotland and NI are the only “regions” of the UK that have a positive balance of trade. But you mention the three regions of England that have higher export values than Scotland, and the East with Scotland just ahead, so let’s have a look at that shall we? Mmm, how should we compare. I know – populations! And hence per capita:
London £37,407mn pop 8.79m = £4,256
South East £46,820m pop 9.08m = £5,156
West Midlands £33,369mn pop 5.86m = £5,694
Scotland £30,278mn pop 5.43m = £5,576
East England £28,231mn pop 6.17m = £4,575
Ooops, we’d better rearrange that in order:
West Midlands £33,369mn pop 5.86m = £5,694
Scotland £30,278mn pop 5.43m = £5,576
South East £46,820m pop 9.08m = £5,156
East England £28,231mn pop 6.17m = £4,575
London £37,407mn pop 8.79m = £4,256
So it turns out that only the West Midlands of England outdoes Scotland in per capita terms, of those 5 you mentioned. And we import less in total !!!
Oh dear, you blew it again.
So even when you ignore the headline figures and have to focus only on per capita figures it is the West Midlands which is the leading exporting region in the UK, not Scotland. That is a long way from your original statement ‘the UK is a lost cause propped up only by Scotland and NI.’
@HIFUD
My original statement was this:
“You really do talk total uninformed ignorant crap.”
Nothing you’ve posted since has proven that wrong.
To make the point – you couldn’t even get that right!
Sufferin’ Saint’s Eve, fur sufferin’ succotash!
Ahm wondering at what point THIS freeze frame Cairnstoon was composed…
1) Have the lights just been turned on, or…
2) Have the trick or treaters been staring at the skeletons in wonderment for about 10 seconds and are about to flick the light switch back up and walk backwards away?
Aye LOVE the colour sexy Purple, prrrrr
THIS was Theresa May after she was Home Secretary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4rv81zxBGQ
The frame remains the same