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Serving the nations

Posted on November 14, 2018 by

Ever aware of its need to deliver informed enlightenment to the populace, the state broadcaster has recently put up a “BBC Brexit Jargon Buster” page on its website. We’re not sure it was meant to be quite this candid.

Apparently Brexit isn’t happening to us.

And there are a few other rather surprising gaps in its knowledge too.

Well, thank goodness that’s all cleared up.

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    1. 14 11 18 13:56

      Serving the nations | speymouth

    187 to “Serving the nations”

    1. handclapping says:

      Ah but the page has a Union Jack on it so its all right

    2. Terry says:

      Hmm. It covers the common agricultural policy but not the common fisheries policy. I wonder why?

    3. manandboy says:

      Very clever, Stu. Well done!

      The BBC – Scotland killers.

    4. Irma says:

      Jesus.

    5. raineach says:

      Fair play to Theresa May, though. After 2 years she has finally succeeded in negotiating away the UK’s veto and has reduced England to the status of Scotland. Such acumen should be rewarded and I propose she be awarded the Freedom of Rannoch Moor

    6. Clootie says:

      Blue Passports?
      Chlorinated Chicken?
      Privatised Health?

    7. Big Del says:

      Try-
      Pooling and sharing!
      Oil fund!

    8. mumsyhugs says:

      raineach @ 12.00

      My old mum and dad once rode a tandem across Rannoch Moor and were almost eaten alive by midges and klegs – it was ever after referred to as “The massacre of Rannoch Moor”! I wholeheartedly agree with your proposed honour and award for Ms May 🙂

    9. galamcennalath says:

      The lords and masters up at the big hoose will tell you what they believe you need to know.

      As little as possible. The last thing they want is an informed and enlightened population!

      Mycological husbandry, right enough.

    10. call me dave says:

      Have you tried.

      Easy as cake. or A piece of pie.

      Theresa & Jeremy going round in circles at PM Q’s.

    11. Col says:

      Can we stick antlers on them and send them out onto Rannoch Moor for a hunting trip. It would be the most humane way to solve the brexit mess I believe.

    12. Doug_Bryce says:

      Serious question…

      Why has the BBC a complete news blackout on the Nov 8th legal ruking from court of session?

      UK government losing court case under Scots law makes for awkward headline. Not least when case was fought under legal principal of Scottish people being sovereign (in England it is the crown).

      If parliament rejects Mays bad-deal then ECJ ruling is of huge significance.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/uk-cannot-stop-brexit-article-50-case-going-to-ecj-says-scottish-court

    13. Macart says:

      TBF, that’s an exact reflection of Westminster government and their BBC.

      Me, masel’ and I. Everyone else? Not so much.

    14. A2 says:

      That’s ok , it dosn’t recognise uk or United Kingdom either.
      and that’s only a fractured part of a union jack.

    15. Bob Mack says:

      What happens when you type in England ?

    16. gordoz says:

      Very Clever indeed.

      Gobsmacking how deliberate the blindspots are in terms of Scotland and her people.

    17. Capella says:

      You have the patience of a saint.

    18. Frank Gillougley says:

      PMQs

      Ian Blackford states the SNP will not take risks with Scotland’s Economy and asks PM, if special deal available for NI, why not Scotland?

      PM replies, (and here I paraphrase) shut up, dae as ye’s ur telt and get to the back o’ the bus.

      Why on earth are we STILL there?

    19. Garry Henderson says:

      To be fair it does have the below;

      Brexit bus: Refers to a bus hired by the Leave campaign in the run-up to the European Union referendum. On its side was a slogan that became one of the most controversial of the campaign and was credited by some with swinging the result: “We send the EU £350m a week. Let’s fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave.”

    20. Giving Goose says:

      I love this Brexit malarkey.

      It’s endless entertainment.

      Ok I do understand the extreme seriousness of what is happening and the potential for disaster, however I cannot read nor listen to the unfolding saga without either smiling or laughing.

      Getting serious for a moment, I believe that something will give. Probably something rather major, probably within English society or within the English (British Nationalist) establishment.

      The UK has been absolutely humbled. Brought low. Made to look a laughing stock. Humped 120 – 0 at football. Kicked off the park. Made to look like a prize turkey. Call it what you like but Britannia is a wizened old crone. Who wants to be associated with such a dried up old prune of a country?

      Dickless. Emasculated. A Joke. A whipped cur.

      Laugh! I nearly shat.

      Long may the humiliation continue.
      Comedy gold from the too wee, too poor, too stupid country 20 miles off the coast of France formally known as the British Empire.

    21. Nana says:

      The PM has offered to call me after her Cabinet meeting – I have suggested that we should speak ahead of the meeting so that @scotgov concerns about what is emerging can be relayed to the Cabinet BEFORE they take a decision. She has so far refused. The “respect” agenda in action.

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1062682482527662080

    22. Truth says:

      Always remember, the know what they are doing.

      It’s up to us to inform the public what they are doing.

      It’s up to our politicians to assume control of media in Scotland. We have wasted enough time lobbying for media to be devolved. It demonstrably does not serve Scots well. The Scottish Govt should set up a ministry straight away and assume control.

    23. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Nicola Sturgeon

      @NicolaSturgeon

      21m minutes ago

      The PM has offered to call me after her Cabinet meeting – I have suggested that we should speak ahead of the meeting so that @scotgov concerns about what is emerging can be relayed to the Cabinet BEFORE they take a decision. She has so far refused. The “respect” agenda in action.

    24. TD says:

      Doug Bryce at 12:16

      “Why has the BBC a complete news blackout on the Nov 8th legal ruling from court of session?”

      Good question which I have asked as well. If the case had been raised in the English High Court, I am sure it would have been all over the media. Look at the coverage the Gina Miller case got – her case was about whether there should be a vote in parliament before triggering Article 50. I would say that was a less significant matter than whether Article 50 can be revoked unilaterally by the country triggering it. So we must conclude that in the eyes of the media, who broadly represent the UK political establishment, the fact it was raised in a Scottish Court means it doesn’t really count and that anything coming out of our pretendy legal system is of no consequence. Of the broadcast media, I have only seen a brief reference to this critically important case on Channel 4 News.

      Fortunately, the European Court of Justice doesn’t care where a case originates – they will rule on the basis of the law and when they do, I suspect that it will come as a big shock to the Westminster establishment. In the current shambles, unilateral revocation of Article 50 might be a very attractive option for many MPs. I suspect we may well come to owe a debt of gratitude to Andy Wightman, Joanna Cherry, Ross Greer, Alyn Smith and others for their courage in taking this to a Scottish Court. The courts did not succumb to the pressure from Westminster to refuse to make the referral, so well done to them as well.

    25. Luigi says:

      Aye, there has been quite a bit of BBC tumbleweed blowing across the colonies of late.

      The silence is occasionally broken by footage of the occasional squirrel, fabricated “SNP BAD” spins, murrders, a new fitba team posing as an old one, and faint whistles of Land of Hope and Glory in the wind. 🙂

      The end of the beginning indeed.

    26. HYUFD says:

      I got no answer when I typed in England either

    27. Luigi says:

      Surely, now it’s time to take the gloves off and get stuck intae them? It’s gonna get dirty anyway – we may as well land the first punch. 🙂

    28. Bob Mack says:

      Hopefully you’ll get no answer here either fuddy.

    29. geeo says:

      Things are ticking along nicely.

      Individual cabinet member meetings taking place before group meeting apparently.

      Democratic coercion in action. Technically, you could call that workplace bullying.

    30. Sinky says:

      BBC TV one o clock news highlights Welsh exports to EU and possible loss of jobs while Lorna Gordon from Glasgow fails to mention Scotland’s much higher value exports and job losses.

    31. Muscleguy says:

      So Nicola Sturgeon says the SNP will vote against the deal in Westminster. What a big deal that isn’t. If our response is a meaningless vote in a parliament we and the SNP don’t want to be part of then what is the point?

      When are you going to ask Pharaoh to let out people have a Section 30 order again? Just to have it confirmed it will never be the time so your carefully prepared Plan B can be put into operation.

      You do have a Plan B?

      I’m getting very disillusioned of the SNP. There must come a time when we have tried everything and it must be about now. They’ve had enough rope and are using it to hang themselves so we need to DO SOMETHING.

      Days of Action so the membership keep quiet is not enough Nicola. Give us a formal campaign and we will give you Independence.

    32. Artyhetty says:

      Laughs all around? I am laughing hysterically, and very nervously.

      Anyone find anything actually relevant in the search?

    33. Ottomanboi says:

      Scottish Nationalism is revolutionary or it is nothing.
      Time we had rather more of the former. The British State is our Bastille. Ça ira!

    34. yesindyref2 says:

      If it was more intelligent, for “Scotland” in the words of a resident Tory poster from Epping, it would have returned “miles from anywhere”.

      I’m looking forward to version 2, currently getting input from Andrew “Muppet” Neil.

    35. ScottishPsyche says:

      Time to go. We know what the deal is now and it will never be in our interest. Gibralter gets a special deal, NI gets a special deal and the City of London get a special deal. Everywhere except Scotland is catered for and we get told after everyone else. No one in the UK is happy.

      People still ask why we want to remain in the EU and leave the UK? Not all unions are the same and being in the UK provides nothing worth staying for.

    36. Brian Cahill says:

      Perhaps? They believe ignorance is bliss, they are very good at it.

    37. Golfnut says:

      @TD.
      ‘ raised in a Scottish court doesn’t really count ‘

      I think its more a case of not advertising to the general public that the uk gov got its arse booted in a Scottish court. People just might start asking awkward questions about Westminster sovereignty and things.

    38. Petra says:

      No mention of Wales on the BBC Brexit jargon buster either? Seemingly the Labour Party in Wales is panicking now at the loss of thousands of jobs, as four fifths of all trucks from the Irish Republic pass through Welsh ports. Never noticed that being advertised on the side of a bus.

    39. Cubby says:

      The Maybot now reminds me of Jonny Brownlie in the famous end of a triathlon when his legs and whole body has turned to jelly as he gets near the finish line. Will an Alistair Brownlie come to her rescue and carry her over the line.

      No I don’t think so. The Tories will leave her lying twitching in the middle of the road waiting for her to be run over.

    40. Robert Louis says:

      Perhaps it is time for the FM to realise their is not, nor ever has been, a ‘respect agenda’ from London. Time for action. Talking is cheap, and quite clearly irrelevant.

      These are exceptional times. It requires exceptional action. Enough is enough. We know the nature of the deal, and it is sh*te.

    41. Shug says:

      Scots deserve everything thats coming at them and the fishermen and farmers most of all

    42. manandboy says:

      Sources confirm no longer a NI specific backstop in the Withdrawal Deal.

      (Faisal Islam – tweet)

      Then the backstop must be UK wide. Success for the DUP – of sorts.

      CU and SM to remain for the UK. What will the MP’s do now? Anybody’s guess.

    43. Proud Cybernat says:

      We now know what May has, at least in principle, agreed with the EU side. We now know her proposal.

      But that is ALL that it is at present – a proposal.

      There is no guarantee that this proposal will ever get by her Cabinet, the EU27 or Westminster. A long way to go yet before Scotland’s FM will have the clarity she seeks. Yes, there’s a wee chink of what may come to pass but until such time as the proposal becomes a DEAL or even a fait accompli DEAL then the FM should keep her powder dry.

      “Are we there yet?”

      We’re close – very close.

    44. galamcennalath says:

      This so called deal means nothing. It needs to be accepted by WM, after it has been accepted by cabinet. It may never go for ratification by EU27.

      Now is the time to rack up the rhetoric and rile Scottish public opinion. It isn’t quite time to ‘unleash Hell’ against the Union, but we are getting a lot closer.

    45. Petra says:

      @ ScottishPsyche says at 1:29 pm … ”Time to go. We know what the deal is now”…

      I don’t reckon that we do know what the deal is now, SP. We don’t even know if this deal will be accepted or not in the Commons. Probably not and then what? A General Election, another EURef (probably not) or whatever? Then there’s the ruling we’re awaiting from the ECJ.

      It looks as though the situation could get even worse for Westminster and when it’s at its lowest ebb with the Tory Party imploding / the Labour Party making an ar*e of itself and Nicola is able to spell out EXACTLY how the final ”deal” will impact on Scotland she’ll make her move, imo.

    46. TD says:

      Golfnut at 1:37 p.m.

      I think we agree. My point was that if the same case had been raised in an English court – as it could have been – the media would have been all over it. So it is less about the substance of the case – vitally important though that is – and more about the fact that the case was initiated in a Scottish court.

    47. manandboy says:

      Still waiting for my copy of the Withdrawal Agreement to arrive. Postie’s been already so it’ll have to be another day.
      Theresa will send us all a copy, won’t she?

    48. McDuff says:

      Ottomanboi

      Quite agree.
      This drifting along the river nationalism is getting us no where.

    49. One_Scot says:

      Here is my take for what it’s worth. Come the 29th of March next year, we will be none the wiser about the final outcome of a Brexit deal.

      One thing will be certain, whatever the outcome is, it will be a disaster for Scotland.

      A date for #ScotRef needs to be called for within six weeks, just like the EU Ref, and then BOOM, we save Scotland.

    50. Garry Henderson says:

      Hold the line, hold the line…

    51. Artyhetty says:

      2014, someone I know who voted ‘no’, ‘we should be more like Norway’. 2018, Norway? You must mean North Britain, which will be polar opposite to ‘Norway’.

      If Scotland has been ‘too poor’, we ain’t seen nothing yet, the Britnats have plans for Scotland and it’s not good, in any way shape of form.

    52. Tom Kane says:

      Stu, are you getting this stuff from Frankie Boyle?

      Suuuuperb!!

      and very Monty Python…

    53. Giving Goose says:

      Re One_Scot

      Actually you might just have something there with the phrase “we save Scotland”

      That sentiment could be the what a future Indyref2 could revolve around.

      “Let’s Save Scotland!”

    54. One_Scot says:

      ‘A date for #ScotRef needs to be called for within six weeks’

      That would be after the 29th of March obvs.

    55. Chris Kilby says:

      Better Together?
      Best of both worlds?
      As close to federalism as is possible?

      How about:

      Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated…?

    56. Luigi says:

      galamcennalath says:

      14 November, 2018 at 1:55 pm

      This so called deal means nothing. It needs to be accepted by WM, after it has been accepted by cabinet. It may never go for ratification by EU27.

      A “deal” has already been stitched up. They are just going through the motions. May has capitulated, the UK will become an EU vassal state. DUP under the bus. A few brexiteers will vote against it, but the red tories will come to the rescue as usual. Enough Labour MPs will support, or abstain, thus ensuring its passage.

      The BBC will hail it as a great victory for Blighty, but whether the English voters swallow this galactofudge crap remains to be seen.

      Early signs not promising – social media smokin already. 🙂

    57. Terence callachan says:

      The problem Nicola sturgeon and snp have is that a whole third of the NO vote or bettertogether vote if you wish to call it that ,is the huge number of English people living in Scotland.
      If you take all of those English people out of the equation Scotland has a large majority for independence but as things stand it appears that once again English people living in Scotland will be allowed to vote against Scottish independence.
      That third of NO voters or bettertogether voters who are the English people living in Scotland will vote NO to Scottish independence no matter what happens with Brexit.
      The other two thirds of the NO vote is made up of Labour voters who have been moving slowly to YES as the insults piled upon Scotland add up but they are not moving in large enough numbers to guarantee a YES win and are unlikely to do so unless there is a poor Brexit deal or a no deal.
      Different Brexit agreements for Northern Ireland will not shift enough Scottish Labour voters to YES.
      The other third are Tory and Lib Dem and they will vote for anything except Scottish independence.

      So what should Nicola sturgeon and SNP do they do if
      England and Wales get the Brexit they voted for
      Northern Ireland gets to remain just as they voted for
      Gibralter and cyprus get what they voted for

      Another Scottish independence referendum could be called but once again the huge number of English people living in Scotland will vote NO ,the Tories and lib Dems in Scotland will vote NO
      and most of the Labour voters in Scotland will vote NO
      Will enough Labour voters in Scotland now vote YES ?
      That is the question
      Given that Scotland has been left out of discussions and been insulted over and over again by Englands Westminster I would call another Scottish independence referendum and say that English people living in Scotland can only vote in it if they were born in Scotland or have a parent that was born in Scotland, that is perfectly reasonable ,it is how most countries around the world decide who can have a passport ,a perfectly good test for deciding what will be the most important vote in the history of Scotland.

    58. Chris Kilby says:

      Hope everyone is stocking up for the food shortages, empty supermarket shelves, riots and worse which will inevitably follow if and when the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal on March 29th.

      Just sayin’ like…

    59. wull2 says:

      Although you see the body’s coming, you cant see the whites of eyes for your laughter. Hold your fire, WM is doing a good job for indepnsance.

    60. Luigi says:

      Well done Mrs May.

      Imagine having billions sucked out of your economy, being forced to obey inappropriate rules, with no say whatsoever. Imagine being bossed by your EU colonial masters and being told to get back in the box when you complain. Welcome to the world of unequal “partnerships”.

      Ah well, it seems to me that the English are about to experience what scots have had to put up with during the last 300 years. Maybe they will finally understand us a little better. 🙂

    61. Mik Johnstone says:

      in a nutshell, i’m no actually sure these c*nts realise just how ANGRY Scotland is at the moment

    62. Artyhetty says:

      Re: Terence Callahan@2.15
      O/T

      In many ways you are correct about voting rights. However most English people I know, voted YES. More than I expected, re Scottish people I know, voted no.

      I am not sure but I think there was talk of people having lived in Scotland for a certain amount of time before being given a vote on independence. That makes sense. Also should English students have a vote, definitely not on the issue of indy they all vote no.

      We have a problem, there are a huge number of people not living in Scotland, who own property, who make sure they get a vote, some let out flats but their name is on the electoral role. We canvassed many flats in Edinburgh, the occupants were temporary and not as named on the voting register.

      See Edinburgh during elections, you cannot move for huge cars then as was apparently the case after the indy ref in 2014, the A1 was chocca they were all headed home to England no doubt having voted no!

      So it’s a system that needs fixing, but for people like me, having lived in Scotland for nearly 30 years, I am a hardened yes voter and would feel very agrieved if denied a vote.

    63. ScottishPsyche says:

      @Petra

      Sorry I was being flippant there – ‘The Deal’ which is what the SNP say we are waiting to know about before we decide on Indy2 will never be in Scotland’s interest. At every turn, each new development is worse than the previous.

      I’m sure there is a point at which the SNP will say enough but for many of us, that is long past.

    64. Proud Cybernat says:

      @TC – your views about English Scots will find no traction here. However much you try to push that line it will find little sympathy here on WoS because WoS is NOT a home for racists, bigots or Anglo-phobes.

      Best take it somewhere else, pal.

    65. yesindyref2 says:

      —————
      Technique #5 – ‘ANGER TROLLING’

      Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes – without the requirement to ‘stage’ a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to ‘lead’ the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you ‘do not care what the authorities think!!’ inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.
      ————–

      https://web.archive.org/web/20140115000332/http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      (that was in relation to “The British State is our Bastille” – i.e. storming the bastille, and the response to that posting – an open and shut case.)

    67. Ghillie says:

      Hold.

    68. Bob Mack says:

      Long road to go on this particular issue. Watch the Tories self destruct, but refuse to hold an election.

      Labour have a specific policy for every eventuality no matter what it may be.

      Why interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake ?

      Do you think people watching this unfold will be impressed?

      Hold fast and we improve our position by the hour.

    69. Giving Goose says:

      Check Mundell and Ross Thompson with others signed letter re fishing. See Laura Kuensberg twitter.

    70. Thepnr says:

      All thirteen Scottish Tories including Mundell have apparently written to May saying that they will not support any deal with the EU that doesn’t give full control over fisheries in Uk waters.

      “we could not support an agreement with the EU that would prevent the UK from independently negotiating access and quota shares”

      Full letter below.

      Prime Minister,

      We are writing to reiterate our joint position on fishing before the details of the Withdrawal Agreement and the Future Economic Partnership are published.

      You have made welcome statements throughout the Brexit negotiations that leaving the EU will mean leaving the Common Fisheries Policy and negotiating as an independent coastal state from December 2020. You said in your conference speech that anything less would be a ‘betrayal of Scotland’ and we completely agree. This has raised expectations in the fishing industry that Brexit will lead to complete control and full sovereignty over domestic waters that we must deliver on.

      In order to deliver on these expectations, we could not support an agreement with the EU that would prevent the UK from independently negotiating access and quota shares. That would mean that we would not be leaving the CFP in practice and would be becoming an independent coastal state in name only. At the end of the Implementation Period, we must be able to negotiate access and quota shares with the EU and other third countries independently on an annual basis, without any pre-existing arrangement being in force. This means that access and quota shares cannot be included in the Future Economic Partnership, allowing the UK to become an independent coastal state both in principal and in practice.

      We also cannot remain in the CFP after December 2020. As fishing quotas are decided on an annual basis, remaining in the CFP for even a few months into the new year would result in quotas being assigned for the entire year based on existing arrangements. Our coastal communities have already made the difficult compromise of accepting extending CFP membership throughout the Implementation Period and they have made it clear to us that they will not accept any further extension.

      We are copying this letter to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

      I can’t provide an archived link so if you want to read it then it can be found on the Guido Fawkes blog.

    71. You who have been on here from the start know I have always said that only the people who are born and live in Scotland should be allowed to vote on THEIR country’s future no one else it is on the record that 80per cent of Incomers voted no on the 2014 ref., thus skewing the vote no fair minded person should object to this I mean the English in parliament voted for EVEL so surely we can have only Scottish votes for the future of Scotland it is all very well having Incomers but they should not be allowed to have a say in OURFuture be warned by what happened last time

    72. yesindyref2 says:

      Breaking news from the BBC:

      Police have been called to a disturbance in a street off Whitehall in London. Police spokesperson Chief Inspector Rick Grimes said: “Neighbours have reported a disturbance and several people have been taken into custody for later questioning. Our visiting psychiatrist Nicola Sturgeon has been asked to attend.”

    73. Lochside says:

      The English have ruled the Celtic nations for the past three centuries with the velvet glove of an unwritten constitution in their mythical ‘green and pleasant land’ ruled by equally mythical wise patrician leaders . From time to time the iron fist has emerged from the velvet to attempt to crush us and the plebeian English when deigning to show anything less than abject deference.

      Since Universal sufferage followed by massive wartime sacrifices and catastrophic emigration, in Scotland at least, we have woken up, and since the turn of this century threatened the Greater English lie hidden under layers of pomp, pretence and political oppression masquerading as a democracy.

      Our downright impudence in demonstrating our rejection of their corrupt apparatus of government by voting for Independence supporting parties and nearly ending the union in Indyref1 was enough to unleash the barely disguised, but long harboured,hatred and disgust for our very existence. Witness, the 2015 GE using the oldest racist stereotype of the greedy, tight Jock, AS picking the pocket of Cameron. The Pavlovian knee jerk avalanche of anti-Scottish rhetoric and downright abuse has never abated since.

      From then onwards, ‘they’, the English elite and a significantly large part of their population endorse our dimunition politically and even the visibility of our food and drink under florid Union flags on every carton and bottle. We are written out of every historical event of ‘English’ history. Thus the Romans ‘conquered Britain’..no they didn’t; The First War wasn’t that ‘bloody’ ( quote Dan Snow). Really?… 148,000 dead Jocks says otherwise; Dunkirk was a ‘victory’ ( tell that to the Highland Division sacrificed to fight on for days after the evacuation by Churchill the mass murderer).

      And now, the final frontier: their racial superiority and bullshit ‘play fair’ philosophy being called out by bloody foreigners!..and worse the Sweaties won’t stay in their natural supine place!

      Well hubris is long overdue for these ‘imperial masters’, long sustained by celtic resources both human and material. Let them get on with facing the world on their own for once and see how great they really are. It is time for the SNP/SG to call time on the unequal abusive Union we have had to labour under, restate our democratic right to remain in the EU and Dissolve the UK Union now!

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      Breaking news from the BBC:

      Our Whitehall Correspondent Nick Chaser reports that the visiting psychiatrist has determined that those arrested can not be questionned until their responsible adults have been located and brought in to the nick.

    75. jfngw says:

      As Scotland is being shafted by Westminster STV decides the headline news is how they can smear Nicola Sturgeon and a rail union joins in with Labour to try and undermine the Scottish government.

      The first is obvious, the Scottish MSM has been tasked by its owners to bring down the SNP. The Labour party are using the unions for the same outcome. This unfortunately is the danger of nationalising services again, it hands power to the Labour party to undermine any progress, using unions to bring down governments. They have a track record on this front.

      In an independent Scotland unions should not be affiliated to any political party. If some union rep wants to influence parliament let them stand for election.

    76. Giving Goose says:

      Thanks Nana and Thepnr for details of the fishing letter.

      But will they, the Tories who signed it, actually do anything?

      If they do not, I anticipate howls of rage from the fishing interests in Scotland who backed Brexit.

    77. Luigi says:

      I don’t know about other folks, but I view all this anti-English guff (that seems to magically appear when things are getting tough for the BritNats) as the worst form of trolling. It’s divisive and taints the YES movement. Is that the intention? If not, then please stop it.

      Our problem is not with English people living (and voting) in Scotland. Many voted YES in 2014 (and many more will do so next time). No our problem is with our own crowd – born and bred scots, friends, relatives, neighbours colleagues who still don’t “get it”. We have to keep working on them. 🙂

    78. orri says:

      Chlorinated chicken tells you all you really need to know.

      Why can’t the USA sell it to us at the moment? Because gunboat diplomacy is passe and we as the consumer set the rules. OK so at the moment that’s in agreement with the EU. However the same holds for after we cease to be an EU member. To sell to them we still need to follow their standards. Something we lose all say in at that point.

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      Breaking news from the BBC:

      A senior Conservative spokeswoman said the riot started when the Scottish tea boy dropped the teapot and those seated at the table realised the Mad Hatter was giving a tea party. Someone shouted “No taxation without representation” and the rest is history.

    80. Les Wilson says:

      Could we not do our own on the BBC?

    81. Luigi says:

      Giving Goose says:

      14 November, 2018 at 3:45 pm

      Thanks Nana and Thepnr for details of the fishing letter.

      But will they, the Tories who signed it, actually do anything?

      If they do not, I anticipate howls of rage from the fishing interests in Scotland who backed Brexit.

      “Bertie! Oh Bertie! – where are you?

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      Breaking news from the BBC:

      In a highly unusual move, the UKSC agreed to hold an emergency session, and the rioters were sentenced to 3 days of community service. When their very senior QC asked “What does community mean?”, the judge ruled that they should work it out for themselves. You can see the footage on this link:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDPTC-yAmgo

    83. Bob Mack says:

      The Tory Scottish referee was just talking about fishing.
      Will Mundell and Davidson resign he is asked.

      “No I don’t think it will come to thar.We are expressing our concern”

      Not ready to jump overboard yet it seems.

    84. TD says:

      ArtyHetty at 2:32 p.m.

      “Also should English students have a vote, definitely not on the issue of indy they all vote no.”

      Are you seriously saying that in your idea of a democracy, we should identify groups who don’t vote the way we like and then disenfranchise them?

      Really?

    85. Breeks says:

      So this letter from the Scottish Tories to Theresa about Fishing. Bet kind ol’ Theresa is just loving that…

      For some reason I’m recalling when a Professor Kelly was being interviewed on the BBC about North Korea, then his young daughter stomped into the room followed by her brother in a baby walker? I’m pretty sure those kids wanted to talk about the fishing too…

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY#

    86. Jock McDonnell says:

      I think now that the only clear thing is that there will be no clarity, the FM should demand a seat at the post brexit negotiations on the new arrangements. That will be the justification for indyref2. We’re tired of marching and need a seat at the table.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      Looking at that logo, by the way, on the jargon buster page, when the Union Flag drops off through gravity, with the sharp edges cutting the UK into bits, it leaves the EU star still intact. The BBC got it right for a change. Did Chris Cairns design it?

    88. Luigi says:

      Dear Tory chancers, if your strong letter gesture to the dear leader fails to change her decision (thus screwing the fishing communities you claim to represent), does that mean you will then take further, decisive action?

      Hello?

      Hello?

      Tumble weed seen blowing over the North Sea.

    89. Robert Louis says:

      I see most folk are merrily getting ‘played’ by the Tories in Scotland. This ‘letter’ which expresses their ‘concern’ about fishing, is nothing more than a sham.

      When push comes to shove, the Tories in Scotland will do EXACTLY what London tells them to do. The ‘letter’ is just a thing they can show to constituents once the fishermen are shafted by England yet again. They can hold it up and say, ‘we really, really tried’.

      It must be said however, that in the case of the fishermen, we have been here before, and the Tories shafted them then too (upon joining the EU/common market). Yet still, they follow Tories like blind sheep.

      Perhaps they will get EXACTLY what they deserve. Kind of running out of any understanding or sympathy for them. To believe that Tories will seriously give a flying f*** about Scottish fishermen does require a degree of naivety, if not just plain old vanilla stupidity. Especially since they have done it to the Scottish fishermen before.

      Sorry, if that sounds a bit heartless, but folk should knopw by now, if you vote TORY, you GET English TORY policy – and that is ALL about the South East of England.

    90. Ken500 says:

      End game for May right enough

      Independence soon End the game.

    91. Arthur thomson says:

      I can understand the anger that many are feeling at the contempt with which the needs of Scotland are, as always, being treated. I have lived with and shared that anger all my days. But the tide has turned and is flowing with us. We are civilised people who can only use civilised means to pursue our goal. To behave otherwise would be self destructive. Our adversaries have no such limitations on their behaviour – evidenced by their tacit/open support of British violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, the Yemen etc. We therefore need to tread resolutely but with care and I am satisfied that the SNP is doing exactly that. Neither I nor anyone else who genuinely supports Scottish independence will EVER go back in the box but nor will we EVER resort to violence.

    92. Tobias Hendry says:

      It could’ve at least returned a picture of the “eat your cereal” lady. No reference to Scotland on the BBC NI Backstop Q&A either apart from this not so subtle ‘back in your box Scotland’ line: “Its chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has continually emphasised that this backstop could only apply to Northern Ireland.”

    93. Terry says:

      Bertie Armstrong on bbc now. Fishing is f@cked again Bertie. If the bbc has left it off their info website on brexit that speaks volumes. Question is – is Bertie part of the skullduggery?

    94. Nana says:

      Following an emergency #Brexit cabinet meeting, the Prime Minister is expected to make a statement outside 10 Downing Street – at about 5pm

      https://www.pscp.tv/w/1nAKEyPLpvAKL

      Hopefully she is resigning although I doubt it. Tories have no honour and no morals.

    95. Ken500 says:

      Some fishermen deserve exactly what they are going to get. Vote NO you get nothing. Some people never learn.

    96. Macjim says:

      Dare I ask but did you try… BBC? It be interesting if even finds that.

    97. galamcennalath says:

      The DUP are fighting to give the Province a worse deal than it might otherwise get.

      North British Tories are also fighting to give both NI and Scotland a bad deal.

      Their voters/supporters need to have a long hard think about the politicians they chose to elect. Ok, in both cases there will be some voters who also wish to be fully integrated with England even if it costs jobs and welfare. Surely, there must be some who have other priorities for their families?

      It’s an astonishing situation.

    98. Iain mhor says:

      Yeah, polls n stats are right in my wheelhouse.
      Excuding English born voters does not a majority for indy give in anything I’ve ever looked at. A source for that would be lovely ta.
      As for excluding voters (those in the spotlight who don’t look right and the ones with spots?) Really eell thought out there, slow handclap. Resident and on the electoral roll in Scotland is the only qualification required.
      I’ll also wait patiently on the well thought out logistics of comparing entrants on the electoral roll, to birth certificates, cross referenced with the last census; deciding on the acceptable correlations.

      Father on the electoral roll, lived and worked in Scotland for 44 years, but born in England 46 years ago, Spouse Scottish born, resident England 30yrs and Scotland 10 years – two children – one 16yr old, English born, but Scottish resident for 15 years – another child 21yr old German born, Scottish resident 20years, works in Berwick-upon Tweed. The Scottish Census says the mother is currently one year resident in Scotland because she worked abroad for a year two years ago. The father and both children voted SNP at the last Scottish Elections and the mother voted Tory.

      I’ll make a wee cup of tea while you halfwits work out who all gets to vote in an Indyref. Time allowed for this paper 30 minutes – show your working.

      Aye.

    99. Doug_Bryce says:

      – DUP thrown under bus
      – Fishermen raging
      – Boris and Ress-Mogg not happy
      – UK an EU rule taker

      who would have predicted. final deal was always going to be EEA / Customs Union or 3rd party.

      the clown house by the thames really have f–ked this right up 🙂 get your popcorn out.

    100. frogesque says:

      Meanwhile, in other fishing news.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46207318

      Highlands & Islands
      Probe into alleged scallop dredging in protected area.

      Me, again!

    101. Ian Mccubbin says:

      Nothing changes in Britnat UK.

    102. Thepnr says:

      BBC “the cabinet meeting has been going on for three hours and could be going on for a while yet”. Might have to wait a bit longer then for May to make her announcement.

      How many Ministers will resign tonight or tomorrow?

    103. Nana says:

      Cabinet meeting running late, statement may not be made until later this evening, around 7pm is now being touted.

      Bbc spinning
      https://twitter.com/Wiznyme1/status/1062742330342625282

      The Scottish Tories so need a fishing ‘get out’ to escape this Brexit nightmare
      https://twitter.com/IndyrefTWO/status/1062743432639275010

      https://twitter.com/IndyrefTWO/status/1062746560180731904

    104. frogesque says:

      @Thepnr:5.00

      Why? You running a book on it? Lol

    105. frogesque says:

      Pretty obvious to the cat, dog and the squeaky toy that the ‘ deal’ is a stitch up that would put an industrial Singer overlocker to shame.

      I call it for a bucket o’ shite!

    106. Thepnr says:

      @frogesque

      No not running a book on it but for me the more the merrier, don’t expect more than two though because when it comes down to it they are all basically cowards and in government for one reason only and that’s to enrich themselves.

      I only care really about how all this effects the chances of an Independence vote in the next referendum. So far this shambles can only help so Yes I am very interested.

    107. geeo says:

      The usual suspects demanding Scottish only voters for indyref2.

      So….when near quarter of a million EU voted No because they were told Indy Scotland would be OUT the EU, that was clearly helpful to the No campaign.

      Fast forward to today, almost every EU national who voted No last time will surely be an ABSOLUTE Yes voter this time, as No = 100% OUT the EU.

      So, on the very cusp of a paradigm shift in QUARTER of a MILLION votes from No to Yes, these people want to suddenly disenfranchise them…..!

      That is the No Campaign’s wettest of wet dream scenario.

      That quarter million shift from No to Yes virtually wins indy, or certainly makes it dead level before a vote is cast.

      So no, lets not disenfranchise anyone.

    108. Nana says:

      Joanna Cherry on the scot tories and fishing
      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1062756068474978304

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside (3.34) –

      Hear hear!

      😉

    110. Nana says:

      Civil servants have been told to remove DUP contacts from planning emails which the Northern Irish party would previously have been looped in to.

      The Independent understands government officials were given the order on Tuesday as the Tory leadership prepared to push Theresa May’s Brexit deal through cabinet.

      In another sign of deep cracks in Tory relations with the DUP, it emerged on Wednesday that the prime minister had still not spoken to the party’s leader about the draft Brexit deal and it was unclear if she intended to before the document was published.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-conservatives-emails-civil-servants-brexit-deal-confidence-supply-agreement-a8633896.html

    111. Maria F says:

      @Iain Mhor

      In my opinion the ones that should get the vote in that family are:

      1. the father because while he was born in rUK, he has lived in Scotland for more than 10 years before the vote and therefore long enough to have developed loyalty to Scotland and to consider Scotland now his home.
      2. the mother, because she was born in Scotland and currently lives in Scotland
      3. The younger son, because while he was born in rUK, he has lived in Scotland for 10 years before the vote.

      The only one that in my view should not get the vote is the 21 year old child because, while he has lived in Scotland for a long period of time before, he does not currently live here.

      I take note of Cameron’s “a la carte” electorate. Cameron refused the vote to the EU citizens, whose vote would possibly turn the result around. He, however, had no problem with the Commonwealth citizens to vote in that referendum. In the same way, I think for indyref those born in rUK have a clear conflict of interests for Scotland to not become independent. To me, living for 10 consecutive years in Scotland proves a link to Scotland and those people consider Scotland now home.

      If you look at the stringent conditions for example in New Caledonia for the vote in the independence referendum, you realise that the franchise in 2014 was far too open and unfair to native Scots. Following those conditions in New Caledonia, even less members of that family would be able to vote.

      I think you have to draw the line somewhere because the vote has to be fair to the natives. It would not be a real exercise of self-determination if the vote of the natives is frustrated by the rest.

    112. frogesque says:

      @ geeo: 5.15

      Agreed! For my part born in Surrey, moved to Scotland at 17, been here since except for 3 years in NI. I’m now in my 70’s

      Nobody will disenfranchise me!

      Our job is to convince previous NO voters that Indy is the way forward. Nothing else will do. Every vote that goes No->YES is worth double.

      To disenfranchise anyone of a valid vote would make the whole exercise worthless. Please also note the use of the word ‘valid. No second homes, no absentee landlord multiple lets and no abuses of care home residents postal vote by party agents.

    113. Thepnr says:

      No statement expected from Theresa may tonight LOL

    114. Thepnr says:

      @Nana

      On the ball as usual 🙂

    115. Nana says:

      @Pnr I need a lie down!

      Meanwhile …

      Over in Brussels, the wait goes on, too. Ambassadors from the EU’s 27 remaining countries have been locked in a meeting in the bloc’s Europa building — colloquially known as “the Egg” because of the shape of its inner glass structure — for as long as the Cabinet has been meeting in London. High up on the fifth floor, they’ve had sight of the Brexit treaty but can’t communicate with the outside world because they had to hand their phones in. The plan is to wait until there’s white smoke from No. 10.

    116. One_Scot says:

      Lol, we now know why May would not let anyone see the text before the Cabinet meeting. It is so she can make it up/ alter it based on the outside noise, and no one is any the wiser.

    117. @Thepnr

      there might not be a press conference but there might still be a statement

    118. ronnie anderson says:

      Why is everybody getting their nickers in a twist on voting rights . How many times has this been discussed on Wings STOP PANDERING TO THE FUCKING TROLLS WHO WANT TO CAUSE DEVISION .

    119. Terence callachan says:

      There are some people on here who think that excluding English people from a vote on Scottish independence is racism.
      Let me explain why it is not .
      All countries around the world have rules about who is allowed to vote and who is not allowed to vote including UK.
      England makes the rules for UK simply because it has a majority of the MP,s in Westminster.
      It is right and proper that Scotland makes the rules for deciding who votes in a Scottish independence referendum.
      It is perfectly reasonable to say that only people who are born in Scotland and are living in Scotland and people not born in Scotland who are living in Scotland and have a parent who was born in Scotland should be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum.
      England is a neighbouring country of Scotlands with a population twelve times that of Scotland ,that fact cannot be ignored when deciding who should vote in a referendum to determine whether or not England should continue to control Scotland .
      I lived in England for many many years I would never think that I should be allowed to vote in a referendum to decide if England should be independent, I’m not English ,as simple as that.
      England made rules about who could vote in the Brexit referendum, it excluded all those from EU countries because they believed it should be a decision made by those who are UK citizens.
      All countries including UK and EU exclude people who they believe should not have a right to vote on a particular matter or matters it’s nothing new .
      Living in a country does not make you a national of that country, I have lived in several countries around the world, for years at a time, but it doesn’t mean I should have the right to determine the future of those countries, that would be silly and undemocratic, English people living in Scotland know this but given the chance they will use their vote to keep Scotland under the control of England.
      We can’t even vote on smaller matters relating to England in the Westminster parliament but English people want to determine the future of my country ? Get lost it’s wrong, you know it.
      General elections and local elections etc fine but not the future of my country.

    120. Nana says:

      Well said Ronnie

      EU27 meeting of ambassadors has ended. Diplomats told no word yet from London whether UK ministers have given greenlight to the deal. Diplomats also told that substance of the Northern Ireland backstop is the previously reported three options to pick by July 2020
      https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1062764985485541376

    121. Thepnr says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      You might be right but I wouldn’t hold my breath. May doesn’t have the bottle.

    122. Collie says:

      No statement in the House of Commons,,,but statement due outside number 10 tonight.

    123. Thepnr says:

      Some lackey will appear and tell the press that May will make a full statement in Westminster tomorrow. That’s the best we might get.

    124. call me dave says:

      Am I right in saying both the FM and Arlene are hanging about in the HOC waiting to be seen after the cabinet meeting?

      PS:
      Although no statement in parliament tonight Sky suggesting that the PM might still make a short announcement outside No 10.

      PPS:
      Please don’t go Fluffy we’ll miss you. 🙂

    125. Tinto Chiel says:

      @froqesque 5.34: well said, particularly “No second homes, no absentee landlord multiple lets and no abuses of care home residents postal vote by party agents.” People should remember that a feature of all summer marches this year was big the number of English voices heard on the streets.

      “No statement expected from Theresa tonight LOL.”

      Sounds like a proper lock-in, Nana. Mundell probs sent out for the cairry-oots 😛

    126. yesindyref2 says:

      Let me explain why it is not .

      No. The purpose is division, and that’s that.

    127. Nana says:

      Where have I heard this before and how many times in the last weeks?

      Senior tory tells me Brexiteer anger so high that seems likely there will be a call for no confidence vote tomorrow – letters going in –

      https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1062769554345082880

    128. Hackalumpoff says:

      This is why the Press Statement is cancelled.
      https://twitter.com/IanBlackfordMP/status/1062767515900743680

    129. Robert Louis says:

      Ronnie Anderson,

      Totally agree. Please do not fall for the trolls peddling the nonsense about only some people voting etc.. It is ill-founded divisive nonsense designed to sow division.

      It is about where we are going together, not where we came from. Ignore them. Please.

    130. Thepnr says:

      BBC reporting that Theresa May will make a statement to the press. I was wrong then in thinking it might be a lackey.

      Her statement will say you’ll get a full statement tomorrow LOL

    131. mr thms says:

      If the details of the Brexit agreement being discussed in news programmes and channels just now are correct, the ‘transitional arrangement’ after the UK leaves the EU, actually allows for the process described in the roadmap for the Internal Enlargement of the European Union by the

      Free download

      https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/

      Article 50 has five parts so expect all of them to be used.

      The last part would fit in nicely with the dissolution of the UK, since the successor states can re-join under Article 49.

      The White Paper Scotland’s Future discussed joining the EU under Article 49 and why it was not appropriate.. If only they knew (I’m sure they did 😉 )

    132. Bill Purves says:

      All people whose permanent residence is in Scotland should get to vote in an independence referendum,

    133. yesindyref2 says:

      @mr thms
      Important document.

      It seems Article 48 may well be the way, rather thgan 49, just as Salmond and the White Paper said. Effectively it means no gap in being part of the EU, just a move to a transitory arrangment.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      Page 64 of that document, the roadmap, very easy seems to me.

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      Hope I reformatted this OK. Wish I’d known about this in Indy Ref 1.

      ———-
      ROADMAP FOR SUCCESSION IN EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE CASE OF MEMBER STATE’S SECESSION OR DISSOLUTION

      Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.

      Notification of succession, from a European Union member state by the state emerging from a member state’s secession or dissolution. This act would notify of the new situation as well as the new state’s wish to succeed the predecessor state as a European Union member as a new state complying with the principles and conditions required for being a Union member with a model of market economy and required administrative capacity. The new state would commit the in accepting the entire flow of the European Union, and would want to immediately initiate the process of adaptation intended to ensure that European Union law is brought into line with the new situation, together with the commitment to adopt all acts that allow it to fulfi l all the international obligations assumed by states as European Union members.

      Act adopted by the European Union to recognise a new state’s succession arising from the secession or dissolution of another European Union member state as a Union member. This would mean the recognition of the predecessor state, if it should continue to exist and of the successor state(s) as members of the European Union and would have to contain the initial provision needed to guarantee the operation of the Union.

      Establishment of the transitory arrangement:
      — Application of the principle of continuity in acts not requiring changes
      or amendment to the acts of secondary law to enable:
      — The continuity of uniform application of the material provisions of the
      European Union’s legal system throughout the new state’s territory.
      ——————-

      Doncha just like this bit:

      Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.

      Mmm, time for some Tiramasu

    136. geeo says:

      @yesindyref2

      …….
      “Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.”
      …….

      That looks like it was written specifically for Scotland !!

      EU ahead of the game perhaps…(lol)

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @geeo
      Yes.

      “Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process”

      Droooool

    138. Nana says:

      Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
      BREAKING

      We’re told Theresa May has secured Cabinet support for her Brexit deal. At least for now.

      Read more on The Telegraph live blog:

      telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/…

    139. Thepnr says:

      @Nana

      A personal triumph then, all she needs to do now is get it through parliament 🙂

    140. mr thms says:

      The Cabinet has agreed. The big winner will be Scotland. The UK will leave all of its treaties at the end of March 2019, so technically Article 50 part 5 would be appropriate. Also, should the Supreme Court set aside the Scottish EU Continuity Act it is hard to see how the UK Withdrawal Act could become part of Scots law! I can only see it being incorporated into English law. My guess is that the Supreme Court will decide the Act can receive its Royal Assent. If it does, it would mean Scotland’s parliament is just as sovereign as the Westminster parliament.

      The UK becoming a loose union of countries (The British-Irish Council comes to mind particularly as it is part of the Good Friday Agreement) is a suitable replacement for the UK.

    141. geeo says:

      I sent my pal this, just before her statement…
      …..

      Bet she says “talks were frank, difficult, but progress was made, uk will be leaving the EU, more tomorrow after i address parliament….the end.
      ……….

      I,m claiming a full house !!

    142. geeo says:

      @mrthms

      If the SC sets aside the EU Continuity Bill, it will have set aside the Act and Treaties of Union itself, AND the Devolution (Scotland) Act.

      By doing THAT the SC has ended the Union.

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      @mr thms “so technically Article 50 part 5 would be appropriate

      http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

      5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

      It depends, but I don’t think so, I think it’s Article 48. As we’ve always said, our accession is NOT an enlargement of the EU / EEA. It;s an internal enlargement, more members, no more actual territory. And we already follow the Acquis Communautaire, hence the ScotParl EU Continutity Bill so we don’t drift.

      If the Ref was before the actual withdrawal date (presumably 29th March 2018), then it could from that other document, be under Article 48. Perhaps also if the Ref was announced before then but held after it could be under A48. It depends on the transition arramngements.

      Tiiming is going to be everything, as it always was, hence the “wait and see”.

      Sturgeon will be up to high dough right now 🙂

    144. Cubby says:

      Note to the Britnats who frequent Wings : your Westminster is a laughing stock throughout the world.

    145. ephemeraldeception says:

      @yesindyref2

      That is indeed a very interesting clause. It marks a clear difference with EU-SPAIN-CATALOIA and EU-UK-SCOTLAND positioning.

      I think it totally sucks but EU consider the member state and internal issues as not their concern.

      Gloves are off in UK context.

      Not to forget that many EU states would relish any opportunity to put a knife into ‘perfidious Albion’ to their personal advantage. Childish, but nevertheless accurate.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      I think, that as long as the Indy Ref 2 is announced before 29th March 2019, then this comes into it:

      1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

      That would need to be long enough before, to give the UK and EU to make an amendment to the withdrawal agreement, under this:

      3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

      Such an amendment should be relatively easy I think.

      A YES could then be dealt with under that other paper from 2010 you linked to (Article 48). Probably with the EU insisting on a formal EU Referend from Scotland, on the basis of Scotland remaining in the EU, rather than rejoining. Clearly with renegotiation of terms, contribution, and our 13 MEPs!

    147. Nana says:

      Michael Barnier press conference soon

      watch here

      https://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/live.cfm?page=1

    148. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ronnie anderson @ 17:55,
      yesindyref2 @ 18:19,

      Amen to that.

      The usual suspects at the same old game. A diversionary ploy exercised every time the UKGov visibly struggles.

    149. TheItalianJob says:

      Disappointing to see a couple of posters determined to devide this site on who has and who hasn’t the right to vote on Scottish Independence.

      The majority of Scots born and resident in Scotland need to be won over to ensure the Yes vote.

      They form by far the largest group and they alone will carry the day. Sure having other UK and EU residents who are entitled to vote will assist but only marginally.

      I agree with the posters who say anyone resident in Scotland AND are on the electoral register have the right to vote in the Independence referendum. We need to show we are an all exclusive country and that will be the basis for an Independent Scotland.

    150. yesindyref2 says:

      @ephemeraldeception
      Very much so, it means Spain can agree to our membership with no “internal” problem, as it is, as we’ve always said (and Spain when quoted correctly), very different for Catalonia from Scotland constitutionally.

    151. manandboy says:

      Well, at least I’ve got my copy of the draft Agreement, courtesy of the European Commission. Thanks very much, Jean Claude.

    152. Rob James says:

      Re the threatened Tory resignations over fishing, don’t hold your breath. They don’t give a toss about the fishing industry, but see it as a platform to boost their support in the north east. Whatever happens in this ‘deal’ soon to be announced, there will be a plan afoot in cahoots with their partners at the BBC in which any negative outcome for the fishermen will be SNP Bad, and anything else will see the Tories exalted as the saviours of the Scottish Fishing industry.

      As for the fishermen? Has it not dawned on them that if they greatly increase their catch with little or no opportunity to export it, the market price will fall accordingly,(and revenue), unless they seriously expect us all to eat fish suppers seven days a week. It might eventually dawn on them that they’ve been had, when they are either forced to land their catch at Grimsby, or the last sprat is dredged from the North Sea in two or three years time, whichever comes first.

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      Draft agreement fron LauraK’s twatter:

      https://ec.europa.eu/commission/files/draft-agreement-withdrawal-united-kingdom-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-european-union-and-european-atomic-energy-community-agreed-negotiators-level-14-november-2018_en

      Personally I’m going to wait and see what others say, it#s 585 pages long!

      @RJS
      Yes, we can disagree furiously about some things on Wings, but it’s not like one big group picking on another, i.e. divisive. Yet we’re all YES, in our different ways.

    154. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmmm, word search on Scotland gives no hits. Didn’t expect it to, but I daresay an amendment can be snuck in before 29/3/19.

    155. Bobp says:

      Maria F 5.21pm Well said. But be careful or you’ll be getting accused next of being racist.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, I spoke too soon. Here’s something:

      ARTICLE 3
      Territorial scope
      1. Unless otherwise provided in this Agreement or in Union law made applicable by this Agreement, any reference in this Agreement to the United Kingdom or its territory shall be understood as referring to:

      (a) the United Kingdom

      Anyone eer been in design of any sort will know it’s always a good idea to include a logical place in the high level structure for any amendments, additions or exceptions that might occur during development, and as far as I can see in a couple of minutes, yrtis, folks.

    157. jasc says:

      Time for a FoI request for everything that has been searched for and for which the BBC has no answer?

    158. Col says:

      Just finished watching The Outlaw King on Netflix. I won’t go into too much detail but towards the end the Bruce gets back the crown he entrusted to a young lad. Tears running down my face at this point and anger inside me as our young still have to suffer at the hands of our uncaring betters to the south of here. Good film, shot in some great locations in Scotland also.

    159. Fred says:

      The wisest heid on the doorstep of No 10 was the cat!

    160. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The young guy looking after the crown (the actor) is Dundonian.
      One of my younger workmates knows him.
      So there!

      8=)

    161. twathater says:

      Watched stv fake jockland news earlier , there was a video piece where the head of toshiba car manufacturers I think , was being interviewed , he explained that he had been briefed and notified what certain parts of the agreement meant to his company

      Meanwhile our First Minister of the nation and country of Scotland is ignored and treated like a leper , and will just have to wait in the queue behind all the other more important parasites of the onion to find out any details of the agreement

      Just how much more denigration , embarrassment , abuse and contempt are brit nat Scot buts willing to suffer at the hands of these tory scum before they realise that they will never be appreciated or recognised as engerlish

      Nicola I don’t know how you can bear to deal with these bastirts I would just lose the plot

    162. schrodingers cat says:

      what petra said

      no one knows how this will play out

      will the deal get past the tory party? there could very well be a leadership challenge, who will win? who knows. regardless, there is still the possibility of a ge being announced in the next few weeks.

      this is before this deal even comes before the hoc. and if and when it does, it could very well be defeated. i know that the snp have said already that they wont vote for it.

      a failure to get this deal through the hoc could also precipitate a ge.

      you have held your breath for 2 years now, dont piss this opportunity away through impatience. we are now talking weeks

      as @ghillies says…………hold

    163. Macart says:

      @twathater

      I hear that.

      How and ever, Yesindyref2 is pretty much on the nail. This has always been about process providing, not one, but several instruments which can be deployed in a very narrow window of opportunity. What was and is required, is a necessary chain of events all happening as and when required. May could and had to delay them, play for time and allow her political peers and the media to cause as much damage as they possibly could to both the SG and YES movement. Which, y’know, didn’t work out quite as well as expected.

      Best they could do, is hold both to a slow progress. No regression. No massive damage as hoped for. Merely a chip here and a ding there.

      The next bit is squeaky bum stuff, this is where it’ll take real nerves of wossiname. 🙂

    164. IZZIE says:

      O/T Briandoonthetoon in addition the dialect coach to whoever played’ the Bruce’ was Arbroath musician Steve Bryne he also had wee role.

    165. Meg merrilees says:

      So Lily livered Mundell has accepted the deal – so much for the brave words of rebellion against the PM….

      What a sorry bunch these Scottish Tories are, wonder what tomorrow will bring.

      Can’t wait to hear Arlene’s thoughts and actions.

      Interesting shouting in the background of T May’s press statement – think there are some unhappy people in London tonight.

    166. Incidentally – Mundell now on record as having said that a ‘No Deal’ Brexit would be ‘horrendous’ for Scotland. Pity he didn’t have the courage to say that earlier.

      Mind you he doesn’t seem to have any courage so no surprises there.

    167. Nana says:

      Nicola says

      Not long off call with PM. She tried to tell me Scotland’s ‘distinctive’ interests had been protected. I pointed out that there isn’t a single mention of Scotland in the agreement, that it disregards our interests, and puts Scotland at a serious competitive disadvantage.

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1062829567235252225

    168. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      The thing is too, the media are finding it harder and harder to put a spin on it, and half the media is on one side pulling the other apart and vice versa. They’re starting to do our job for us. Even the 13 Tories are helping, as the media would like to portray them as heroes for standing up or the fishing industry.

      Which surely makes others think “what about me?”.

      I love it when a plan comes together 🙂

    169. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      Oh, this’ll go down well.

      https://archive.fo/7myDH

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-conservatives-emails-civil-servants-brexit-deal-confidence-supply-agreement-a8633896.html

      When this sinks in over the next few days? Folks are going to be a tad grumpy.

    170. Ken500 says:

      The Tories haven’t a clue what they are doing, Neither does anyone else.

      GE election soon. If this load of codswollap gets through the Commons it will be a miracle,

      What an absolute fecking shambles. The Tories have out done themselves for a complete and utter mess. Mucked up again. Who will be clearing up after them as usual?

      They are all as bad as one another. This hockpot will never go through. It is totally unworkable. May and her band will be gone soon. They have offended everyone. Typical. Who wants the poison chalice. Not Labour. Pathetic.

    171. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      Well, it’s a good deal bad deal not much of a deal an appalling deal a deceptive deal a no-chance deal a deal the whole UK should get behind a tractorous deal a deal-breaker a … any more?

      There’s a lot of Jokers in the pack. Who’s for canasta?

    172. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      I’m guessing Tory central north Britain will be a bit rowdy tonight (cough).

    173. Ken500 says:

      The taxpayers are paying for this nonsense. Pathetic doesn’t cover it. The £Billions being wasted. Over a lot of complete and utter wasters. Alice in wonderland. Fairy stories. How can they cobble together such a load of complete and utter nonsense. Badly written, Badly drafted. A complete and utter fabrication. Imagine pulling this stunt. Unbelievable. People are supposed to go along with this ’emperor has no clothes’ stuff. Not likely when the crunch comes. The number will be up. The luck run out.

      What on earth are they playing so infantile. Naive beyond doubt. Davidson must be hiding at the thought of it. Out of sight and mind. Glad of the excuse. Waiting to chuck the toys out of the pram. Never mind the Proms. UJ. No Saltires allowed, The only flag not on displace at the reunion.

      Those leather troosers must be too tight. Up to the neck and pulled too tight. Circulation to the brain must be missing a few cells. Deteriorating rapidly. The EU must be in horrendous shock. The waves will travel the world. From little ripples discover the tsunami.

    174. Liz g says:

      Has anybody read what Gibraltar are so happy about yer?

    175. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      Peston asked Sturgeon to say what would happen something or other somewhen, and she replied she didn’t even know what was going to happen in the next few hours.

      Yup.

      Sleepy time I think 🙂

    176. Sharny Dubs says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      14 November, 2018 at 2:40 pm

      —————
      Technique #5 – ‘ANGER TROLLING’

      Is that not entrapment?

    177. Now I hear the Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab has resigned. If the situation wasn’t so serious, it would make a good comedy programme.

    178. Terence callachan says:

      To Liz g…

      Gibralter has a lot of British companies registered there for the the purposes of tax avoidance, they are all the gambling and betting companies you see on your tv every day, nearly all the people that work in those companies actually live in Spain so they cross the border in to gibralter every day to go to work then back home over the border to Spain at the end of the working day, we are talking thousands and thousands of workers doing this so if Brexit caused them to either be refused entry to gibralter or required them to buy a passport and have to show it at the border crossing twice a day going to and returning from work you can imagine the chaos it would cause, there are not enough people in gibralter to work in those companies at the job level these Spanish employees work so it is likely those companies would have to relocate.
      They do not want to relocate.
      The British government treats them the same way they treat companies in the likes of the Virgin Islands and jersey etc remember the paradise papers ? well gibralter can be included in the list of countries helping businesses avoid tax with the assistance of the British government, makes you wonder if the MP,s in Westminster and those in the House of Lords own those gambling companies or have shares in them doesn’t it.
      The EU introduces new laws in April 2019 that will require businesses to show more details
      about why they pay so little tax they will have to show in which countries they make their money and by having to do that it will allow the EU to tell the countries from which the money is being made just how much money is being made and how much tax is being avoided.
      The companies don’t want that so they are happy to be able to stay in gibralter where they can continue to get away with paying very little tax because gibralter is leaving the eu under Brexit.
      About 99% of people in gibralter voted against Brexit but then a few months later Theresa May visited them and magically the chief minister of gibralter made an announcement that gibralter had changed its mind and was now 99% in favour of Brexit.
      The deal that had been done was this support for the many gambling companies in gibralter , people living in gibralter liked the deal because many of them work in the more senior positions of these gambling companies or own or work for businesses in gibralter that supply these gambling companies .

    179. Davosa says:

      What an unprincipled ,cowardly snivelling little rat ‘Smithers’ Mundell is. The rest of the Tory numpties esp Thomson and co are a bunch of skanky scum who are hell bent on dragging everyone in Scotland down with them.

    180. English mps brought in EVEL English votes on English laws so that only the English can vote on matters that affect England so what is wrong with Scotland saying that only Scots should vote on Scotland’s freedom ??? And I notice Those who speak against never mention the 80per cent of Incomers who voted no in the 2014 ref., as for us who push for a Scots only vote being trolls I think it is those who seek to deny this who are more likely to be trolls

    181. Alex says:

      I may be last, as usual, to comment, however, simple but effective detective work here, Stuart.

      Now, more than a week later, the lead state broadcaster Pravda (aren’t we lucky having loads of them, the Soviet Union only had one) STILL can’t provide its paying public with the data you used in your search terms.

      Never mind Scotland, independence, etc, on the BBC website you can’t even demand anything relating to Trident: surely an integral part of EU defensive strategy. And surely an important negotiating chip with regards to future EU relations: Scotland has western Europe’s largest nuclear arsenal – if not the world’s – and yet in the 585-page EU settlement paper we weren’t mentioned once, but NI was, more than 100 times.

      But no, not a mention of Scotland. It proves that Scotland is a region; a rump of empire; a colony to be done with as the English wish.

      I’m not even going to say that’s a pity, for now we are, obviously, locked in a war with England. It’s a war that’s been going on, in some way or another, for the past 310 years. This war, despite recent high-profile cases, i.e. what many believe to be the British state murder of Willie MacRae, is a war of subterfuge and submission; suggestion and slavery.

      The BBC is representative is of a fascistic state. It is the slave of Westminster, and the enemy of freedom of Scotland.

      It’s time we rose up. And I think that process is just beginning.



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