The whistleblower
Clive Ponting is the original British whistleblower. Long before Assange and Snowden, Ponting leaked details of a cover-up that shook the British political establishment.
Working as a senior civil servant at the heart of power, Clive Ponting grew increasingly uneasy by what he witnessed. The Belgrano affair was the final straw and Ponting’s leaking of documents to MPs sparked a scandal that would lead to his arrest, trial and eventual aquittal.
He went on to pen books on the affair, an insider’s view of Whitehall and is the acclaimed author of works on the green history of the world and deconstructing the myth of Churchill.
In a live event and interview Clive reflects on his time at Whitehall and offers an insight into the murky and often chaotic world of British state which he sees as essentially corrupt. Clive has had a long standing admiration for Scotland and its values since his youth and moved from France to Kelso in 2016.
He considers independence as the obvious choice for Scots as well as a way to escape the amoral British system. Brexit is both an opportunity and a danger for Scotland as Westminster may well use emergency measures to centralise power and dissolve the Scottish Parliament. The battle for independence may get nasty, but it can and must be won.
(Previous episodes here.)
I never thought it would be easy,the thing with the the UK is that you actually have to be a drain on their resources to get out from them St Kitts and Nevis have a museum which would educate many in this country. We are more like Ireland we just may have to shoot our way out thanks in part to the No voters.
A few years ago, I was on a hop on touristic bus in Philadelphia. It took us to the older part of town and stopped at a church grave yard. There were many little gravestones with Stars and Stripes flags planted next to them. The tour guide informed us that they died fighting for Independence.
We can do this Independence thing without a bottle of milk being spilt, but we must project our message more effectively.
I have it from reliable sources that the BBC wasn’t up and running in these days of USA wars of Independence.
Ponting was brave in exposing britnat corruption and Westminster’s endemic malfeasance. We need brave people like him on our side.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The whistleblower Clive Ponting is the original British whistleblower. Long before Assange and Snowden, […]
@Helena Brown
Think of every No voter as a potential convert to the Yes side. The ordinary No voter are also our friends, family and colleagues.
Every one of them is persuadable and that is our job.
Good work again Phantom Power, please keep these coming as they will prove to be very powerful when we next start our campaign of persuasion. You’re doing a brilliant job. Cheers.
We are going to have to much much smarter this time around.
Whitehall is playing for keeps. Do not underestimate this.
Its easy to think they are incompetent and deficient but there are some clever clever in Whitehall.
Our best chance at success is showing Scots the facts around how much wealth we produce and how badly Whitehall has stewarded our wealth over the last 30/50/100 years.
The SNP need to nail the currency issue, we need an independent currency, and make a better run at that GERS fiction.
We have work to do, but we will get there.
Its the small daily conversations with people, the small things done daily, millions of small things done a lot add up in to huge results.
The battle for independence may get nasty.
Yep I have feared for sometime that the broken Regime may lash out and turn nastier.
The battle for independence must be won for the sake of all of our loved ones.
Wont be easy though, the monster that is Westminster will not let the cash cow which is Scotland go easily for without our wealth they have very little.
What a great guy.
Englishman Clive Ponting would put 55% of pathetic cringing british nationalist Scots to shame.
Nae bullets.
And there will be nae bevvyin’ either!
First class, a brave principled man!
What a wonderful human being Clive Ponting is. We are so lucky to have him as a Scot here in Scotland. He is here, he lives here, chose deliberately to live here so he is a Scot.
I hope the SNP hear his fears about the emergency powers and hurries the feck up on indyref2. All their clever, clever triangulation, picking the perfect moment stuff could all be in vain.
They could well be faced with a stark choice, accept Holyrood being wound up against the democratic wishes of Scots or UDI before they can send the army in to evict them. We may have to form a human shield around Holyrood. Be prepared.
Good man to have on board.
Emergency Powers! Close down Holyrood! Food and medicine rations! Power cuts and blackouts! No petrol! Pensions not paid!
Anyone of the above scenarios will guarantee Scotland gains Independence so don’t fear it. See it as a gift from the leading Brexiteers Rees-Mogg, Davies, Johnson et al.
The lunatics are losing control of the madhouse.
Scots are a funny breed, excepting those of course who identify with their Ulster cousins. I tend to find my fellow Scots thoughtful and considerate, until you rub them up the wrong way. Then you have something to fear.
I am older now, but if any force under the Army Chief of Staff who stated on the Marr show that they would (keep order under Brexit) decides to shut my Parliament, I will be there.
We must stand up and be counted. This battered nation has hardly known any peace. Perpetual war has drained us of the young men and women who died for Empire King and country in foreign fields,serving a concept of Imperialism created by the Union, often in greater per capita of population than others within the Union.
No more I say. I will not be bowed. My Parliament is my parliament. It is not England’s to toy with any more. I pray for peace and common sense, because I have personally crossed the Rubicon on Independence and there will be no going back at any cost.
Many thanks for this video to Clive Ponting and Phantom Power. We wanted to go to Kelso to hear his talk but it would have been a 400 mile round trip from Aberdeenshire so we hoped it would be recorded.
He certainly has a lot of courage and deserves all the support needed to get his message out. This is a good start. Hope there will be much more to come.
@Capella
There will be much more to come, from the Rev’s twitter.
link to twitter.com
@ Thepnr – oh great. thx for the hint – you’re certainly keeping up to speed!
Oooh “Your browser does not currently recognise any of the video formats available. ”
You have to wonder sometimes why things are kept secret, better perhaps to let the people decide. Some would say the Belgrano was no longer a threat and was heading home, others would say she had zigged and zagged for some time in a similar fashion, and could just as easily head back to the Falklands, plus there were other Argentinian warships involved in the “pattern”.
With supression of information, it makes it more likely the public will think the Government of the day had something to hide, as they often did. Military tactiticians would prefer to know for real, as it could affect actions in the future.
Thanks Phantom Power once again. Clive Ponting, a hero from the 1980’s, has remained so.
If that doesn’t leave a lasting impression, nothing will. A powerful piece by Phantom Power and Mr Ponting.
Independance was never given it had to be fought for.
Muscleguy at 1010pm
Totally agree with what you say re indyref. I would not put it past Westminster to presume to take such action.
I have however, often wondered how a scenario such as that might play out. You see Scotland has its own legal system. So, let’s say Westminster say ‘because we have created such a mess with brexit, we have decided here in England, to close the Scottish parliament. In response, UDI is declared by scotgov. From that moment onwards, Scotland is an independent country, so any supposed ‘sending in of troops’ would be an invasion.
In addition, since the legal system is different, Westminster could not take the same kind of action which the fascist government in Spain took towards Catalunya. What could they charge anybody for?
Either way, I think it would only serve to strengthen support for independence, so long term the effect would be to achieve that. So I doubt Westminster would be so stupid. Or would they??
Nemo me impune lacessit, as it says above the entrance to Edinburgh castle.
To many people forget that out of the entire Empire, Scotland is the only country that can drag Westminster, its ministers, civil service and military through the courts. Scotland’s Courts. Why? because Scotland and England are joined in a political union by Treaty. Because Scotland and England Share a monarch with two crowns. Queen of Scots and Queen of England. The UK gov is not the Gov of the Queen of England, the treasury, armed forces etc, are not titled HM Queen of England Treasury, civil service or armed forces. They are jointly the Queen of Scots. They are going to have enough bother facing charges of theft, without adding armed intervention to thwart the constitutional process. The UK isn’t Spain and its not the 1920’s. There’s a line they can’t cross and I have little doubt they know exactly where it is.
Gratitude to Phantom Power Films as always =)
I am grateful to Clive Ponting for speaking with such courage.
His revelations are an eyeopener but now I am not surprised, as we all know so much more about corruption in the previously trusted high places.
His final remarks are chilling.
Yet many folk have already aired the view that Brexit could be dangerous for all the people of these islands and especially for Scotland in far more ways than just cues at Dover, food and medicine shortages.
I have no fear that the SNP are prepared for this.
Thank you to the kind lady of Galla who first welcomed Clive and his wife to Scotland 🙂
Ponting is just another Assange but in a kilt.
I doubt Westminster would actually send troops up to Edinburgh and shut Holyrood and arrest Sturgeon, indeed had Scotland voted for independence in 2014 Westminster had promised to respect the result though I expect George Osborne would have tried to screw Scotland in the same way Barnier is trying to screw the UK after the Brexit vote, it would have been very difficult divorce proceedings.
The question is whether Scotland votes for independence in another referendum but with No Deal while that would be bad for England (and most polls show English voters want a Deal with the EU) it would also hit Scotland as England is Scotland’s largest export destination and if England leaves the EU, the single market and has no FTA with the EU it also means the same applies with Scotland
I just hate Anglo wannabees patronisingly making a Scottish thing Scottish by adding a kilt.
We also take rather a lot of English goods,in fact more than we export south so any thought of punishing Scotland in a trade war for having the temerity to be independent is frankly horse manure.
Back in 2013 (I think), I wrote on here about what the British Establishment would be capable of, such as the UK Government calling a constitutional crisis that would gain permission through a Westminster vote to shut down the Scottish Parliament indefinitely to prevent independence.
rUK would be bankrupt without Scotland, that is what they know, we’re the last country of the ‘British Empire’ to lose and that is the end game for the British Establishment. If Scotland were to achieve independence then they would fear insurrection.
Scotland needs to be tough and prepared, with Brexit the end game is coming.
HYFUD is just another Daniel Defoe in a Morris dancing outfit.
HYYOUFUD
Ponting showed Thatcher was lying – as unionists do. Not sure if he wears a kilt. English patronage a wee bit there but good luck to him should he choose too.
As for your other comments this evening ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I think Scotland is going through a period of pain in the near future no matter what happens. If we play our cards right independence will come fairly soon I think. If we get the message out that it’s totally unacceptable the way we are treated the way we are by such morally corrupt politicians from another country and some from our own we can make enough people see what we do.
Start talking more about dissolving the union with our mad neighbours and less about leaving some BBC created reality that doesn’t really exist. There’s no hope for Scotland in the UK because we will be powerless. Only by taking the power back do we have a hope in hell of running this country the way a country should be run. By its citizens for its citizens.
Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England, Wales and Northern Ireland and £22 billion to countries outside the UK so most Scottish exports go to other UK countries.
link to fullfact.org
The percentage of English exports to Scotland is lower than that
dcanmore The Falklands and Gibraltar have almost universal pro British majorities, Wales has a Unionist First Minister too as for the moment does Northern Ireland
Hamish100 Argentina invaded the Falklands and intelligence showed the Belgrano had been ordered to attack the British task force
link to dailymail.co.uk
HUFD Barnier isn’t trying to screw anyone. UK wanted to leave the clun and keep the benefits – it can’t be done and nobody is going to make exceptions just because the “But we’re British” lot start declaring their exceptionalism. Westminster has sent troops to Scotland in the past and I’ve no doubt that they would do it again.
Westminster may have promised to respect a Yes vote but as they have broken all the other promises they made I’m not certain that they would have respected it at all.
Panto season already.
To the purveyor of horse manure “Oh .No it isn’t”
Weechhid It would have been perfectly possible to have a Canada style FTA for the whole UK with the EU and find a technical solution to avoid a hard border in Ireland but Barnier insisted Northern Ireland must stay in the Customs Union and in effect the Single Market too meaning a FTA would only be offered to GB not Northern Ireland and thus dividing the UK along the Irish Sea
Tell us here in the USA what we can do to help. PLEASE
I see many still falling over themselves to defeat the troll in an argument that you cannot win. Please desist as you only encourage him, I’m sick of reading his shite.
HYUFD at1 2.05 am
There you go again. Quoting the Daily Mail. Are you too far away to hear the laughter?
Just as matter of interest lots of Scots exports to England are merely passing through. One of the first things we will do when independent will be to rebuild Scottish ports and start exporting directly from Scottish ports again.
It is interesting to note that before Ireland joined the EU 45 years ago it exported about 75% to England and 25% to Europe. That is now completely reversed. It is now planning direct huge ferries to Europe and not going through England to the continent. (It also has paid of all its debt and has no deficit unlike the UK with a £2,000,000,000,000 debt).
FYUFD is telling us three things.
After a union of 310 years a clever and industrious country with more natural resources than most is an economic basket case -and the union is a good thing.
The UK, in huge debt’ is hanging onto Scotland to throw money at us. Aye,right! (Somebody can perhaps translate that for him)
The Scottish people are the only people in the world’s 196 nations too stupid to run themselves.
As I said, you have no idea. Anybody who quotes the Daily Mail in Scotland is treated with derision. But we get amused
Wings get-togethers – Can’t work out how to do this properly, and will I get my knuckles rapped, for asking if there’s anything on in Edinburgh 7-15 December? There for a week and would love to meet up with anyone who’s around.
Ireland has no land border with England and most Scottish exports still go to England despite Scotland having been part of the EU along with England for 40 years.
Ireland also has very low tax to attract investors and had heavy austerity to reduce its debt and deficit.
There are other former countries now parts of larger countries, Bavaria, the former Republic of Germany, the Maharajah states
The former Republic of Texas now part of the USA, the former Kingdom of Naples and Republic of Venice now part of Italy etc
See the carrot on the end of that stick? Don’t bite it.
Anyone who believes the massively distorted ‘export’ figures to England is an ignoramus. No, Scotland is NOT the only country in the developed world that England has a trade surplus with.
That is just fantasy trade accountancy made possible by the natural goods transport logistics of basic geography.
It is in effect, Scotland’s hyper equivalent of the ‘Rotterdam Effect’ much complained about by rexiteers where they claimed that the UK’s apparently massive exports to Holland were a distortion of UK to EU export statistics because some of the
exports sent there went furth of Europe.
That claim was not true because in point of fact, very little of the goods sent to Rotterdam did end up outside Europe.
But in Scotland’s case, it is not just a matter of how many of Scotland’s ‘exports’ to England end up furth of Europe but also how many of them end up in Europe.
In other words, the ‘Rotterdam Effect’ of England is far, far, greater than the Rotterdam Effect the rexiteers complained about.
Ignore the fake accountancy and look at the bottom line. All we should consider is Scotland’s total goods out versus Scotland’s total goods in and on that score, Scotland (even minus oil) is about break-even, which is a helluva lot better than England (Even including financial ‘services’).
Err that second ‘in’ should have been ‘out’ obv.
Err 2, there was no second ‘in’ (it’s getting late) the original was fine.
Masslass @ 12.27
Thank you so much for asking.
Off the top of my head…When the Indy Ref is called,get as many as you can to contact your politicians, media and any groups you can think of to say you support this.
If anyone has some spare dollars ( and I do mean really can afford to) they could donate to many of the current fundraisers…or organise some fundraising for us Stateside.
The most important thing you can do,is to prepare as many as you can,after the Yes vote is in,to lobby,and lobby hard for your government to recognise Scotland as an Independent State.
Be ambitious an aim to have your government be the first to do so
The EU will give England nothing as will the Irish give England even less
The Irish have long memories of mass graves of slaughtered countrymen women and children the English laughing called the potato famine which was in fact food theft by the English who stole enough food to feed 18 million English people at the expense of the deaths of over 100,000 Irish people so if Ireland can make England suffer they damn well will and good luck to them
England’s re writing of history has a way of catching up with them and all their wee tame Neil Olivers can’t hide it with their fake BBC history shows
As soon as Scotland’s wind shakes our barley and more truth emerges maybe then the folk of England will get a truthful look at what kind of people have been lying to them for hundreds of years and they might get a chance to put their country in order by ridding themselves of the corruption of both of their political allied murdering parties
The days of pop guns and pipe bombs are almost over and giving way to the world turning on the weakened state of Englands corruption and ending it using the law and a laptop
England has had this coming and now everybody is hand in hand throttling them bit by bit, even the UN has nothing but condemnation for Englands human rights abuses at home and abroad
Well said Dr Jim @ 1.53
And a welcome to Clive Ponting as a fellow Scot. He’s here that’s enough.
When you consider the risks that a young Clive Ponting took exposing the lies and duplicitous actions of the Belgrano affair his courage was immeasurable
Remember this was the ( SPIT ) thatcher era where she was and still is exalted by the rabid tories and brit nats , Ponting literally risked his life to EXPOSE the lies ,it would have been so easy just to have him disappeared or to have him charged with some spurious activity , it highlights to me the utmost integrity of the man and I thank him for choosing Scotland as his home
When you consider his integrity and honesty in exposing the lies and corruption of the establishment , and compare and contrast it with the senior civil servants who DELIBERATELY ABANDONED all their integrity and honesty in order to subvert and sabotage a democratic vote for independence and were exuberant and joyful that their despicable actions were successful and rewarded
Liz g Will do
We are keeping our eyes on the prize. Will do everything to help. Its my reason to keep on living. I cannot believe we are this close to Independence. I have waited for this my whole life.
As usual I don’t have time to read through all the posts so sorry if I’m just repeating something that has already been said, but anyway IMO it will not hurt to say it again.
All due respect for Clive and his brave honesty, it may yet cost him dear, but he highlights something I have mentioned before, Westminster does not play by the rules.
A state of emergency will/may not center around making a human barrier round our parliament, it will be troops on the street, control of water, electricity, food supplies, even lines of communication, phone, wireless, tv and internet.
Showboat generals talk strategy, real generals talk logistics. Remember Churchill, remember all the atrocities that this Westminster has committed over the not so distant past.
This is the beast we face.
Sorry to be a doomsayer, but we really need to focus on the realities. IMHO.
I lived and worked in a west African dictatorship many years ago and we always knew when something was going down as all communications would get blacked out, a few hours or perhaps a day or so, phones, tv etc.
Scares me when I think of what WM are capable of.
BBC Scotland go to great lengths this morning denying reports of the corporation ripping off Scotland to the tune of £100 million, and they do it totally unsuccessfully by using phrases like overlapping budgets and time differentials and outside scheduling of programming, and the more phrases they used the more obvious it became they were indeed overlapping their own lies and concealing the facts with blah de blah hogwash and they have been caught with their hands in Scotlands pockets once again subsidising Englands programming with Scottish taxpayers hard earned money
The SNP have nailed them and proven them guilty of theft
Dave McEwan Hill says:
13 November, 2018 at 12:36 am
HYUFD at1 2.05 am
There you go again. Quoting the Daily Mail. Are you too far away to hear the laughter?
Just as matter of interest lots of Scots exports to England are merely passing through. One of the first things we will do when independent will be to rebuild Scottish ports and start exporting directly from Scottish ports again….
Aye Dave, and just what a mistake it has been “devolving” Scotland’s European Freight Traffic to the South? Another “trust” compromised and then betrayed.
Westminster promised Scotland high speed rail links, and a whole mass Euro transportation node to carry steel from Ravenscraig to Europe. It never happened of course. Did we ever believe it would? All these grand promises ran out of steam before they got North of Manchester. The South built themselves a funnel and bottle neck for UK commerce all to benefit the greedy South, and then made the whole UK hostage to that same greedy self interest by flicking the toxic “V” of Brexit to every Nation connected to their freight hub in Europe. Talk about stupefying idiocy…
Stupidity is not a long enough word to adequately describe the mental absurdity behind the self harming calamity of Brexit, but heed the lesson Scotland, that’s what happens when you’re in an abusive and exploitative relationship with a parasitic black hole called the United Kingdom, and trust them to look after your interests. What great guffaws of laughter they must have at our expense.
I hope we don’t just extend thanks and our respects to Clive Pontin, but fully absorb what they are saying about immoral and unprincipled regime at large in Westminster. It takes a special kind of forlorn courage for a squaddie to go over the top to near certain death when the whistle blows, but it’s another special kind of courage to take a David and Goliath stand against the nasty UK Establishment, especially when you know the depth of its nastiness. I’ll say it too Mr Pontin, welcome to Scotland, and I too hope you’re very happy here.
We now have Clive Pontin, Craig Murray, John Jappy,… all “Establishment” insiders disgusted by what they witnessed on the inside. I raise a hearty toast to every one of you. Thank you for having the courage to speak out. May Scotland provide you with the respect and high regard you deserve, and shield you from the vindictive and pernicious tentacles of the UK Establishment. May you always find a peaceful home and solid sanctuary in Scotland.
Thanks again to Phantom Power Films !
Am looking forward to the next ‘No to YES’ 🙂
An excellent video. The UK state’s perfidy and violent streak is a problem we will have to face.
That said, the current Tory government is one of the most incompetent in history. I have always felt Indy will come when London (probably Tories) make a big mistake which really gets right up Scots’ noses. Then a sizeable majority will see self determination as solution. We have the right people in government in WM to seriously cock up.
This is a good read …
” Here our future scholars will have to try to distinguish between three kinds of ignorance: deliberate un-knowing, crass self-delusion and what we can only call pig ignorance “
link to irishtimes.com
Well done to Phantom Power and a brave Mr Ponting for getting this information out there. In saying that most of us on here know full well that Westminster treats the Scots with condescension, how corrupt they are and that they’ll stop at nothing to hold onto Scotland. The contents of the last article on here and the fact that we ‘house’ their nuclear weapons is reason enough for them to take over Scotland as a last resort. We’re now entering the end game, so be prepared. Prepared for ”anything.” Gillian McGregor, now Director of the Scotland Office, isn’t here by chance, imo.
And yes, a big welcome to Scotland Mr and Mrs Ponting. We’ll be needing people like you to help run an Independent Scotland in the very near future, if you so wish.
link to gov.uk
marga @ 12.41 am
Re a possible Wings get together in Edinburgh while you are here from 7th to 15th December…
Keep in touch – I’m sure we can whistle up a gathering 🙂
‘Scottish BBC viewers send £100m licence fee ‘subsidy’ to London HQ.’
link to thenational.scot
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‘A truly pivotal moment as the complex Brexit process draws towards its denouement.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
When push turns to shove and we really have to fight London for our Independence, I console myself with the knowledge, Westminster will stick rigidly to what I call the Melchett Management Method.
As the good General said in Blackadder IV: “If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.”
That is how Whitehall/Westminster thinks, and has always thought. That type of in-bred thinking can be beaten.
Thatcher died old and alone in a Barclay brother’s hotel room. She would have rotted in hell, if there was any justice, for all the lives she ruined, worldwide. The public money she stole did not conpensate her.
The Tories will be down and out. Gone. Locked up in the crumbling Westminster cesspit of their own making. Guarded day and night. They can’t go out among the public. They are so scared of them. Locked up in their own prison while they fleece the public purse of £Billions and sanction and starve others.
The Tory/Unionists coarse nasty bastards and their associates. Running around in the blacked out cars. They should be black affronted. Lying bastards. They will be gone soon, Back to oblivion for another thirty years if their is any justice. They even change the Scottish electoral system, non mandated to try and ruin the Scottish economy. To try and take back control Not likely the voters vote against it. Corbyn and his associates are a failure. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.
Labour voting for or abstaining every Tory policies. They obviously do not want the poisoned chalice. The Tories could have been voted down September 2017 evel vote. How they change their tune when they are deselected. Their cosy number threatened. What do Labour stand for? Absolutely nothing. A different policy come along every minute. Contradicts the last one. A bunch of charlotans. The Tories little helpers. Illegally telling voters to vote Tory. Totally awful.
There are plenty of Tory unionists in the borders.
MI5 are trying to slander Alex Salmond. They will not get away with it, The Tory/unionists behind it will soon be gone. Clark the ‘Salmond slayer’. Aye right? The incompetent useless Tories will soon be away. Trying to ruin the NE economy, They will not muck up the economy for much longer. The farce is playing out. They are going to be voted down and out.
Brexit a criminal act of gross stupidity and self harm. To allow the Tory/unionists to fleece the public purse. An act of total vandalism and destruction. Their pathetic wailing being drowned out by the public roar. The tsunami coming back to bite. The public regaining and retaining the moral ground.
Scotland will vote for Independence, Ireland will vote to be reunited, The DUP will fail. The DUP will fall. How low can they go.
Gordon Brown the warmongering liar should be put in jail for the harm he has done the world. The death and destruction he has caused worldwide. A complete and utter charlotan and associate sycophants. A complete and utter imbecile liar. They denied Scotland powers. Now trying to muscle in on the Act. Unelected and deselected. Davidson is a shameless liar, Two peas from the same pod of malicious activity. Paid from London HQ’s to try and destroy the Scottish economy. They have no shame. Liars always get found out.
Blair and Brown locked in their own made prison. Guarded 24/7 from the public. They are despised worldwide. A mutual distrust between them and the public whom they despise.
Westminster unionists charlotan, criminals and their associates fleecing the public purse at every opportunity. Killing maiming and death. They are beyond redemption. Trying to keep their criminality secret under the Official Secrets Act, They always get found out,
Clive Ponting and others are witness to it. Thank goodness for them and many others who speak out.
Iraq, Lockerbie, Dunblane kept secret for 100 years. Or until Scotland is Independent soon. Then the public will find out.
Vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence.
This new film, is very, very powerful stuff. I found it very interesting how he talked about the 1970’s and the oil. England gads to have it, and they used the wholly undemocratic (where Scottish constituencies make up only 9% of the vote) westminster to do so. Then followed the decades of lying by both Tory AND LABOUR government that Scottish oil was worthless and constantly just about to ‘run out’. Indeed the former Labour chancellor in an interview to holyrood magazine
QUOTE From interview article “He says that the value of oil to the UK is a prime motivation behind Westminster’s opposition to independence now and in the 1970s.
“I think we did underplay the value of the oil to the country because of the threat of nationalism..”.
Source link to holyrood.com
Scotland needs to end the union with England. It is just a treaty, no more, no less. It is not magic.
Westminster treats Scotland as a colony, and with each passing day it gets worse.
It may be NI that brings an end to the Union, not Scotland.
According to RTE/BBC Opinion poll , 62% of people in Northern Ireland think that a United Ireland has become more likely as a result of Brexit debate and 11% think it has become less likely. Hard to see how that counts as a strategic Unionist success….(Tweet by Duncan Morrow)
Links
link to gov.scot
link to firstminister.gov.scot
link to blogs.gov.scot
link to businessforscotland.com
link to holyrood.com
link to stirlingsnp.com
Here’s Gordon Brown publicly backing Nicola Sturgeon on the issue of the Power Grab. He goes further by saying Holyrood should be allowed to sign deals with the EU after Brexit.
Reporting Scotland tonight employed a news blackout of Gordon Brown’s ‘Power Grab’ comments. The programme has consistently covered the former PM’s ‘interventions’ since pre-2014, but now he’s not newsworthy?
link to twitter.com
link to businessforscotland.com
I inadvertently posted my reply on the previous thread.
HYFUD @ 12:01 am
Funny how Scottish exports always exclude oil and gas.
link to bloomberg.com
“Make Room OPEC: U.K. Is Set to Become Net Crude Oil Exporter”
link to barrheadboy.com
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
European Union leaders will hold an emergency Brexit summit this weekend 17th to 18th November to discuss any deal the UK has ready.
link to facebook.com
link to randompublicjournal.com
“You have plundered many nations” and they still do!
link to twitter.com
link to citywire.co.uk
link to politics.co.uk
link to irishtimes.com
May stares into Brexit abyss as domestic opposition mounts
link to archive.is
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
link to uk.businessinsider.com
link to politico.eu
‘Alleged Edinburgh Airport incidents probed in Salmond investigation.’
link to thenational.scot
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‘WW1 victory came at a heavy cost to Scotland – in more ways than one.’
…”It may not sound like so many compared to the two million Germans who were killed, or the 1.8m Russians or 1.4m French. But Scotland was a small country which could ill afford such a scale of loss, and in fact its rate of casualties exceeded that of any other Allied nation. Although it lay far from the theatres of conflict, its death toll was proportionately higher than the losses of Serbia and Turkey, countries which had been conquered and over-run.”..
link to thenational.scot
……………………………………………..
‘Reporting Scotland cuts cost by using cheap but unreliable Labour feed.’
…”Convener of the Holyrood Health & Sport Committee, Lewis Macdonald, has told everybody he can that there aren’t enough policies aimed at disease prevention. Lewis is the husband of one of the Aberdeen councillors who were suspended for going into coalition with the Tories, despite their social and economic policies being at times near-identical to, if not directly copied from, those of the SNP.
Reporting Scotland will be gratefully using his comments eight times today as part of its wider ‘Undermine with Fake News’ operation, planned to conclude just before the next Independence referendum.”..
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to thecanary.co
The British Airways owner, IAG, has been seeking Spanish government support to continue its operations in the case of a disorderly Brexit.
link to archive.is
In response to the Buzzfeed article linked to in the tweet below, Jessica Simor QC says
If they go for no deal, they foreseeably (and knowingly) put the lives of certain individuals who are reliant on swift imports of medicines at risk, in breach of the right to life
link to twitter.com
There is no wriggle room left with the DUP and hard Brexiters over a potential deal
link to archive.is
Brexit: sending a message
link to eureferendum.com
link to taxresearch.org.uk
link to universalcreditsuffer.com
Expose Brexit dark money
link to youtube.com
The SNP keep telling the indy folk that they should prepare for indyref etc.. Given what Clive Ponting and many others have pointed out regarding the utter mendacity of Westminster governments, and the massive expansion of the Westminster run Scotland office, might I suggest our very own Scottish Government start preparing for EVERY eventuality too. And I do mean EVERY eventuality.
The current Westminster English government has zero respect for Scotland and Scottish people, but importantly, it has zero respect for democracy.
Will we really be forced to go down this kind of road by Westminster??
Good luck to them, if they do. History suggests they will fail – as they failed in all other colonies. For example, the USA…
link to ushistory.org
At 8am on EBCs Gary Robertson muttered something about the Supreme Court, it was that quick I did not catch it. Whatever it was there was no discussion or mention of it, so can anyone let me know what was said?
link to peterabell.blog
Perhaps if @BBCNewsnight actually spoke to @theSNP or occasionally had us on the prog absolute howlers like this wd not occur
link to twitter.com
lying Ross Thompson
link to twitter.com
link to rte.ie
ManandBoy Northern Ireland has a Unionist First Minister in Arlene Foster unlike Sturgeon who is a Nationalist. Plus most Unionists in Northern Ireland are of Scottish origin
Les Wilson at 0823,
Look, the EBC have told you, nothing of importance was said. All that happened was ‘mumbles, mumbles, supreme court, mumble mumble. Nothing for us uppity jocks to concern ourselves about.
In reality likely regarding the court case to determine whether article 50 can be reversed. Westminster insists it cannot, but the court case was referred by the highest court in Scots law (the court of session in Edinburgh) to the European courts of Justice. Westminster sought to appeal that decision and have the case considered in their own tame pretendy ‘supreme‘ court’ in London, but the Scottish law lords refused them permission. Now, Westminster is trying to somehow change that via nefarious and undemocratic means, essentially trying to undermine the Scots law lords and the court of session in Edinburgh.
What a bunch of ******* they are in Westminster. If the rules don’t work, change the rules. Zero respect for democracy, zero respect for Scotland and Scots law.
Dr Jim The same UN which said New Caledonia was an unlawful French colony which must become independent which the New Caledonians ignored a few weeks ago when 56% of them voted to remain a French overseas territory? Both the UK and France are permanent members of the U.N. Security Council as is China which also controls Tibet
Chick McGregor England also has a trade surplus with the USA not just Scotland
Following a night of reflection, the clues we have can be put together to form a picture. We know the Scottish Office has expanded considerably, and that in the event of No Deal the army has been chosen in helping maintain civil disorder.
We have had on this very forum, posters indicating the possibility of Holyrood being disbanded, perhaps permanently.
Mrs May herself has confirmed a period of seven years where Westminster will control all the major levers of State, reducing Hollywood to a Parish Council rather than a government.
Time is against us now, because if we don’t move soon then we are going to be forcibly deprived of a further opportunity,perhaps permanently.
It appears Westminster have looked at Catalonia and found a solution to their dilemma, because who is backing the Catalans just now ?
No doubt ,sites like this will be outlawed to deprive us of the ability to communicate and organise. Even now there is talk in Westminster about controlling Social Media of all descriptions.
I may sound downbeat, but everything we know points to these events. To deny that is foolish indeed. To do nothing when you are being stripped of all your rights is criminal.
The SNP must start sowing the seed from which grows freedom. It is no longer sufficient to play a waiting game and hope events turn in your favour, because the opposition are making all the moves already behind the scenes. Act now, before its too late to act at all.
manandboy at 0807am,
I think you are right. With the coming cluster*** called brexit, more and more in N.Ireland will start to realise they can either be attached to a basket case England, or join with their own neighbours, remain within the EU and prosper as a nation.
People like the DUP are yesterday’s people. Stuck in a religious bigotry that means little to the young folk of N.Ireland. The Arlene Fosters of this world will soon be confide to the political history books. The DUP want to leave the EU because they firmly believe it is the anti-christ. Seriously.
Robert Louis says:
Thanks for reply Robert, I was suspicious that something more was being hidden, again!
BBC will be bannned in Scotland before long!
However, they( Westminster)have their plans for Scotland and putting a spoke in their wheel is becoming harder, we do need Indy very very soon.
Hey, BBC
POP quiz: Who is the Westminster leader of the third largest party in the UK?
A. Nicola Sturgeon
B. Alex Salmond
C. Ian Blackford
D. Joanna Cherry
We’ll not hold our breath.
N.B. Disambiguation (to help the BBC) For the avoidance of doubt, the third largest party in the UK is the SNP.
@ Les Wilson says at 8:23 am
Don’t know what Gary Robertson said about Supreme Court but noted further attempts to Anglicise the Scottish Legal System with ill informed folk wanted to scrap Corroboration and Not Provan verdicts.
We need stand up for Scots Law as a) Corroboration protects anyone wrongly accused and prevents numerous vexatious cases (although I do appreciate that in rape cases getting secondary evidence can be difficult).
b) However our 8-7 majority Jury system gives more chances of getting a conviction than in England where you need a 10 -2 majority.
c) It is a Not Guilty verdict that should be scrapped and was an English import. In a trial the Jury is only asked based on the evidence presented whether the case against the accused is Provan or Not Provan. It has no way of knowing whether the person is Innocent or Guilty.
yesindyref2 The Belgrano was in International waters over 200 miles from the Falklands it could have been doing somersaults never mind zig zagging if it wanted. sinking it and with loss of several hundred crew was an illegal act and should end up n the Hague. perhaps when the UK loses its seat on the security council justice will prevail.
Robert Louis, i read recently that Ian Paisley senior actually believed that the EU had a secret seat numbered 666 for the Pope to use when he took over the EU. These nutters now have more say on Brexit than the so called equal partner called Scotland. WTF
link to bbc.co.uk
Addressing the Lord Mayor’s Banquet on Monday evening, the prime minister said the talks were “immensely difficult”…
What Theresa May meant was that the talks were immensely difficult for the Tory Party and the UDA/DUP.
For the many, the solution to Brexit couldn’t be easier.
Buried in the anti-Salmond smearfest is another significant story. Mundell has refused to push for more ‘Tay Deal’ cash from the Tory Govt to help the Michelin plant in Dundee
link to twitter.com
link to theferret.scot
link to irishexaminer.com
link to politico.eu
That’s all for now
I have shared the Phantom Power video with contacts including my local SNP councillor. I suggest every Winger does the same.
link to thenational.scot
The analysis, published by the Scottish Parliament’s Information Centre (Spice), found the BBC raised just under £324m in 2017/18 from licence fee payers in Scotland, but spent £223m – 69% – in Scotland with the remaining £101m directed to headquarters. The percentage was down from 72% during 2016/17.
In comparison, Wales and Northern Ireland saw 92% and 89% respectively of their licence fee revenue spent directly in those nations during 2017/18.
Meanwhile Daily Record reveals that new BBC / Premier Sports six year TV deal for Scottish Cup is worth up to £20m. That is £3.3m a year max between the two broadcasters.
BBC pays £16m a year to cover English FA cup games and £68m a year for Match of the Day highlights. Sky pays £120m a year for English Championship (Old Second division) coverage but only oferring £30 for whole of Scottish League coverage.
Wouldn’t the best possible news for Michelin workers in Dundee, and indeed Michelin the company, be a progressive, concrete affirmation that the Scottish Government’s primary objective in the coming 5 months is to PREVENT Brexit from actually happening to Scotland?
It would lift my spirits, nevermind the Dundee workforce…
I missed his talk so thanks to Andrew Armstrong for getting it onto your blog
Teresa May is an evel misfit without shame or responsibility. She is only concerned about herself. Selfish vain and unscrupulous. Her world view is extorted by her own conceit. This catastrophe will continue until she and the Tory/unionists are gone, soon. An absolute disgrace. The poorer and vulnerable are paying for Tory/unionists illegal actions.
Oxbridge funded 2000 to 1 by public money. No diversity or equality. Illegal attitudes. The wealthy buy an education illegally subsidised by public money. In order to then ruin the world economy.
It is unbelievable what they have done. Westminster psycho bastards of every unionists hue. .
I suspect the BBC £100m is an underestimate, if you include programmes that are badged BBC Scotland but obviously have little connection with Scotland. It is an accounting exercise to allocate spending to Scotland, Wales and NI but still have most of the expertise (people) still in the South East.
Perfect example was QT, made by Mentorn, then decided it would be badged as BBC Scotland. Nothing changed in the production but Mentorn rented some office space in Scotland and then became Mentorn Scotland for QT production.
Other ones are daytime programmes, why is a show centred around a Manchester recycling centre a BBC Scotland production. It never sets foot in Scotland to my knowledge.
I have seen shows badged as BBC Scotland were the only function provided by anyone in Scotland was the financing, nobody else seemed to know anything about the production. Of course if it had won any awards the BBC Scotland controller would have stepped proudly forward for some limelight, it bombed.
As the collective mind of large numbers of the electorate shifts, which has happened in the UK with Brexit, as well as in the US with the 2016 election of Donald Trump, it follows that a shift in the Constitutional arrangements of their respective administrations will also take place.
In the UK, this means that the political establishment at Westminster is under serious threat. It is no longer fit for purpose. This is why the entire British Establishment is so afraid of the consequences of Brexit. They fear the loss of their centuries old grip on power and wealth, and the privileged life that goes with it, aka, the Gravy Train.
It is worth noting that the US mid-term elections showed that voter sentiment had not moved since November 2016. The voter shift is therefore showing no signs of returning to where it was before the EU referendum in June 2016. The Tories were hoping for a reversal.
The significance of this voter shift is that it means that large numbers of voters have broken free of the government’s mind controlling propaganda, whereby it is the government which decides how the masses will think, and therefore how they will vote. The UK Government has, in large measure, lost this control. And it is scaring the shit out of them.
Excellent Bella article on the stampede of companies from London to Paris & Frankfort!
Or even Frankfurt! 🙂
To HY FUD…
You live the right Royal British fairy tale in every comment you make, grow up ,if you can’t have sensible discussion don’t bother .
You try so desperately to convince that Scotland exports so much to England and is reliant on England when you know full well that England has so little influence and power without Scotlands oil and gas, one thing you did get right is that nearly all of Scotlands exports go through England but of course most of that is going overseas it’s not being exported to England it’s just passing through , why does that happen ? it happens because England has deprived Scotland of the means to control exports and airports but not for much longer, Scottish independence will see that end, Scotlands airports will expand and flourish and our exports will leave directly from Scotland ,the down side for you is that you will no longer be able to include Scottish produce in Englands export figures, the shrinking English economy will be a real worry for you, best you divert your attention to doing something about that ,you will have more success doing that than trying to convince Scotland that it is too wee too poor too stupid, that argument has been lost by you already.
Bob Mack, folk here know some of each other.
That’s a start.
We meet. We talk. We chat some more.
The old fashioned way before the mavels of the internetty thing.
Ain’t going to keep this movement silent.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
Independence is unstoppable 🙂
he said it clearly why I hated being raised in England because being a kid with a Scottish accent till my teenage years I was looked down upon and treated like garbage by the English in even remembered I told my late father I wanted out of England as I hated it there but no my opinion didn’t mean a thing go him so I had to suffer the xenophobic attitudeswhen he passed away i stayed because no way was I leaving my mother alone in that English town full of xenophobic gits hence why I never really got back here till summer of 2015 and best move I’ve done my only regret is it took so long to do as I missed voting yes in indyref1 which is what I would of done in 2014.
@Lenny Hartley
“666”???
Demented Ulster Puritans indeed!
@Gillie,
Tell that to Catalonia.
Terence callachan says:
Terence, the other thing they never mention, and surprisingly hardly ever talked about by our own politicians. Is that England exports much much more to Scotland than Scotland does to them.
I have often spoke of this on Wings, but again, hardly a reply to that fact.When you look at the High or main shopping streets across Scotland how many “Scottish” owned shops do you see? gie few right.
If you buy something online it is in the main English companies we interact and buy from.
Huge amounts of English lorries come up our motorways 24/7, some Scottish lorries do that to, going south but not nearly as many.
They sell us everything you can imagine. No wonder May always goes on about preserving our ” single market”, it is another huge con as they want to preserve it, for what they gain from it, that is the real reason.
Then of course there is “services” that they sell us, eg what insurance company do you insure all your things with?, hardly likely to be Scottish.
Talk of a hard border from them is a scare tactic, they could never afford to carry it out, of course they may do something symbolic but little that would be restrictive.
Trade with Scotland is soo important to them, but they portray it the other way around,as they always do.
High time all of our representatives started shouting very loudly about that, and laugh at them when they try to con as as the do on almost every subject. But the single uk market is a lulu!
I wish people would just wake up to this.
The endgame. The endgame is coming for Teresa May and her associates, Milking the public purse and fleecing the public. What a chancer. They broke the Bank of England.
Scotland exports a lot of food products. People have to eat. A staple diet. Brexit will put up the price of food. Cause a riot. Basic foodstuff, fuel and enegy prices will go up especially for the poorer who can’t afford it.
Scotland is surplus in food and energy so will not be affected so badly but it will affect other exports, Scotland exports and imports are more equal. So Scotland dies not have such a problem with balance of payment deficit.
Westminster takes from Scotland – £Billions. Over which Scotland has no say. No powers, The Barnett Formula.distortion. Scotland subsidies London S/E. restriction growth in Scotland. Congestion in London. S/E ruining the economy.
The EU invests in Scotland . The EU gives to Scotland in grants and investment. The EU costs Scotland nothing. Westminster economic decisions cost Scotland £Billions. The EU gives. Westminster takes Illegally.
Westminster illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud costs Scotland £Billions,
Terence callachan says:
13 November, 2018 at 10:24 am
Scottish Produce exported through English Ports also supports many thousands of English jobs in shipping, transport, packaging, taxation, security, finance, advertising and marketing.
When these jobs go north after Scottish Independence, the English economy will plummet and Westminster knows it for a fact, the jig is up !
The resident British Nationalist who is a fanatical English Tory does not know his arse from his elbow.
His posts often contradict his previous posts. One of the biggest diddies that have ever pitched up on Wings. But not as big a diddy as Rockshit. Our resident Britnat is still to find an article in the Daily Mail forecasting events 240 years in the future. So Rockshit must still be the biggest diddy on Wings.
Our resident Britnat is not here to learn or debate or to convince but just to disrupt. What a total plonker. You could just see him writing a paper in school on something and quoting the Daily Mail as his source for his reliable facts to justify his conclusions.
It is odds-on that Theresa May will no longer be The UK Prime Minister after the Brexit delivery date of March 29, 2019.
If truth be told, Theresa May has really only held the Office of PM, but Prime Minister, in meaningful words and competent deeds?
She NEVER answers even a simple question honestly, but always evades the question put to her by making a pre-written statement learned by rote.
So, no, TM is only a ‘delivery driver’ prime minister, whose only job is to deliver Brexit by the due date. That is what her Line Manager from the City has instructed her to do after she was cleverly ‘appointed’ PM after the other ‘candidates’ dropped out one by one, until only Theresa was left. No voting took place. Theresa May was NOT elected Prime Minister. She was SELECTED – to deliver Brexit. On the 29th of March, her contract will be up, and she will move on.
British politics is currently a huge scam. It’s a fraud. Theresa May is a joke being played on the British public by the Establishment. Brexit is a farce.
As Lord Sugar said recently in the House of Lords, some of these people should be in jail for fraud.
Just ror information.
Joanne Cherry is asking Lucy Frazer the Tory Justice Minister why the Supreme Court has been asked to intervene in the article 50 case, as Scots Law states that when a unanimous verdict is given by the Scottish Law Lords,there is no facility to overturn that decision.
Miss Frazer reply. “We are well aware of Scots Law ,but we look forward to the decision of the Supreme Court”
Translated. “Tough,we have our our legal system”.
Looks like our laws and the Treaty of Union being ignored yet again.
@Marc Rich says: 12 November, 2018 at 9:57 pm:
” … Our best chance at success is showing Scots the facts around how much wealth we produce and how badly Whitehall has stewarded our wealth over the last 30/50/100 years.”
You can make that figure precisely 312 years come 1 May 2019, Marc – that’s from the day the independent sovereign Kingdom of Scotland became a, (cough!), “equally sovereign partner, “ in the bipartite United Kingdom of Great Britain – 1 May 1707.
The only other partner in that United Kingdom was, and still is, The Kingdom of England with which, three country, kingdom we are supposedly equally sovereign partners.
If you read, “The Treaty Of Union”, you will find that Scotland already has her own currency, Marc. That is also stated right there in that same Treaty of Union.
Scotland’s currency was/is the Pound Sterling which Scotland was using at least as far back as the Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton of 1328:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
” … The SNP need to nail the currency issue, we need an independent currency, and make a better run at that GERS fiction.”
The SNP has long ago, and many time, “Nailed”, both of those matters, Marc, but if you are expecting to read all about it in the Scottish dead tree press or the Westminster owned or controlled broadcasting mediums then you may expect rather a long term wait.
The facts are that the Treaty of Union states that Scottish Banks have the legal right to print their own distinctive bank notes.
If you don’t believe that then just attempt to proffer a Scottish Bank Note in a London retail outlet, or even try to exchange it for the English Pound Sterling at one of those currency exchange places at Heathrow. There is absolutely no need to go to the expense of creating a new currency when we already have one.
BTW: The SNP have stated Scotland will retain the Pound Sterling after independence. However there is no need to tie the Pound Sterling, Scots to the Pound Sterling, English. In any case the reality of the matter is that,
BRUKExit or not, the post independence Pound Sterling English will tank while the Pound Sterling Scots will, like the Norwegian krone, become embarrassingly strong.I don’t know if you are aware that this was what put the fear of God into Westminster when they read the McCrone Report. The Norwegians have to struggle to prevent their Krone from getting too strong and they have to artificially invest it in other countries in order to stop their economy from overheating.
If you click on this link:-
link to wingsoverscotland.com
it will take you to a page on the Wings site that deals with GERS.
There are a set of links at the top of every Wings page and that link is from one of those pages. You might like to go and have a wee search through those pages.
” … We have work to do, but we will get there.
Its the small daily conversations with people, the small things done daily, millions of small things done a lot add up in to huge results.”
Yes Marc, that is the way to go. The SNP, both as a political party and as the Scottish Government really do tell all the facts in both Holyrood and Westminster but unless you watch both Westminster live on-line:-
link to parliamentlive.tv
or Holyrood live:-
link to scottishparliament.tv
Or the SNP’s website, then you are not going to know just how hard the SNP works at telling it how it is. They can send out as many Press Releases as they like but they cannot make the SMSM, MSM or the broadcasters propagate them.
Just look at the choices that the BBC make when choosing the panel and the audiences for their radio and TV political programmes.
So that is the job of the YES Movement, AUOB and the several on-line bloggers. The whole point is that their hard work, and it certainly is very hard work, is winning the battle and, with that hard work continuing, the war will be won.
It may be slow but the signs are that there is a slow but steady movement towards independence.
HYUFD at 8.33
“Plus most Unionists in Northern Ireland are of Scottish origin”
You don’t say!
As if we all don’t know that.
Most unionists in Scotland are of Scottish origin too (as are most nationalists in Scotland though we have among us plenty of good English Scottish nationalists as well – the ones who can see a better country on the horizon).
Just as a matter of interest 25% of “England’s exports” (as you describe them) are Scottish.
It is quite refreshing to read your soft excreta. You are the epitome of the uninformed English voter who understands absolutely nothing about Scotland.
The fact that you actually have the dense idiocy to quote the Daily Mail to us tells us all we need to know. All informed and knowledgeable Scots are fully aware that the Mail is a unionist Tory rag aimed at those in Scotland of a certain age who have difficulty coming to terms with the fact that they have been swallowing mailshite for half a century or more and such has removed their critical faculties.
For example you probably believe (as you have been told) that Ruth Davidson is hugely popular in Scotland.
In fact despite continuous generous and uncritical promotion for about five years with the Tories at about 24% in Scottish polls she hasn’t even reached the lowest point of Mrs Thatcher’s popularity in Scotland.
We can but laugh.
Joanna Cherry – Act of Union Question to Lucy Frazer 13/11/18
link to youtube.com
@Nana
Good catch on the Joanna Cherry video, another excellent question from her.
Lenny Hartley Permanent UN Security Council members have a permanent veto and cannot be removed from it though India, Japan and Germany or the EU may be added as permanent members
Terence Callachan Even without Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland England would be the 7th largest economy in the world. Scotland would be 46th
Les Wilson Percentage wise more Scottish exports go to England than English exports to Scotland
@Nana
Offft!
Joanna is superb. The Tory is totally out of her depth, her knowledge is a disgrace. Those weren’t answers, that was just noise.
This could be a big test of just how political the London Supreme Court is. If they stick to the law then they should tell the Tory Gov to get lost. If they interfere, then they are simply an instrument of misrule.
May use Brexit as an excuse to dissolve the Scottish parliament. That would set our cause back decades.
Nana
That Joanna Cherry video, the Minister was clearly floundering and out of her depth. The Tories really are in deep doo-dah now.
I fear they will come up with a scheme to keep us as their last colony, a scheme so cunning, not even Baldrick could have thought of it.
Michael Russell on the way to London
Now on my way to London and will re-iterate @ScotGov view that we need to see and comment on any draft or partial agreement text…Brexit deal details ‘must be shared’ – BBC News
article here
link to archive.is
Dave McEwan Hill The great Ruth Davidson has taken the Scottish Tories from just 1 MP in Scotland to 13 and overtaken Scottish Labour as the main opposition in Holyrood to the SNP and she has not finished yet!
Very glad Joanna Cherry is on our side. I’d call that a skewering…
For new readers who are not aware what Lucy Frazer had to say about Scots
link to youtube.com
@HYUFD
Why don’t you say something which we might actually be interested in, like your opinion on …
link to youtube.com
O / T. Has McLeish’s been tasked with ensuring Scotland don’t qualify out of this very easy group.
Michael Stewart said few weeks back on Radio Shortbread that he’d heard that Leigh Griffiths was given a heavy bollocking by the manager.
The media piled pressure on Stuart Regan to get rid of Strachan, and worked at turning the fans against the manager.
They drove Strachan out after achieving the best run a Scottish team’s achieved in 20 years, and replaced by a manager who can’t get many of the top players to turn up.
Success of the National team works wonders for a countries moral! A requirement for a nation considering it’s constitutional future.
Should have been McLeish not McLeish’s
HYUFD says:
Try monetary value Fud, not percentages which will always be in Englands favour ie population. They sell everything to Scotland and that is what they want to preserve.
On the same basis, Scotland to England, not nearly the same.
They benefit hugely in from Scotland and on every level.
English subermarkets alone without everything else.
So open your eyes, oops you won’t do that!
Not engaging with the Troll’s Unionist Diarrhoea, which sadly for him seems to be an incurable affliction, but when the BritNats ranked Scotland’s economy slumping to 46th in the world, below Portugal as I recall, that was partly attributed amongst various dubious issues with whisky and where food was processed as opposed to coming from, ..to Scotland’s GDP when with only 8% of the UK population an Independent Scotland could only lay claim to 8% of “UK” oil.
It’s just the usual BritNat Horshit distorting the truth, which you should typically address with a stout shovel (or hose) before someone stands in it.
Nana says:
13 November, 2018 at 1:07 pm
For new readers who are not aware what Lucy Frazer had to say about Scots…
I bet the four assaulted quarters of our Sir Simon Fraser’s tortured body must be spinning in their 14th Century graves just to share the very name with their disgusting gobshite ignoramus, Lucy Frazer.
OT… Don’t you think there is a striking resemblance between Clive Pointing and actor Michael Culver?
@Pnr, Breeks, Socrates, Gala
Apologies for not replying properly, rushing off to an appointment whilst keeping an eye out for the latest news.
Indeed, thank goodness Joanna is on our side.
A few links until later
No-deal Brexit would lead UK to recession “within three or four months”, #Allianz chief economic adviser @elerianm tells @Sarah_Montague
video
link to twitter.com
link to politico.eu
link to insurancejournal.com
HYUFD, a question for you:
What is it about oil-rich, energy-rich Scotland that makes Westminster so keen to keep it in the £2trn-debt-ridden UK, in spite of the ongoing need to have English taxpayers selflessly “subsidise” all those Scots junkies?
@Robert Louis says: 12 November, 2018 at 10:55 pm:
” … Nemo me impune lacessit, as it says above the entrance to Edinburgh castle.”
Unfortunately most Scots now would translate that Latin into the English as you describe. However, it translates into lowland Scots as, “Wha Daur Meddle Ei’ Me.”
Here is a Border Ballad with that title:-
Meaning of Scots lowland, (Borders), words:-
herried=plundered, robbed
maun fa’ ere it’s taen=must fall before it’s taken
naig=nag, horse
Gar’d=made
dumfoondert=amazed, perplexed
toom=empty
clank=severe blow
Percies=an English aristocratic family
ajee=crooked, awry
cloured=struck, battered
reivers=border bandits
ken=know
loons=rascals
Jook’t=duck, evade a blow
Hair-i-bee=place of execution at Carlisle
Ma naig nickert=my horse whinnied
brawlie=in good health
Jethart tree=a jury that tries a case after inflicting punishment
England produces and export goods to Scotland. But apart from cornish pasties. Yarmouth bloaters and jellied eels..nothing unique which isn’t made elsewhere. Thatcher closed down Scotlands manufacturing Base and moved all of the canning and processing factories down south. Once Scotland leaves the UK. Tescos etc will simply import. Eg coke. Hienze beans and cars from other countries in the sm/cu. The Scots won’t even notice the change in the supermarkets but England will lose almost all of its exports to Scotland.
However.82% of Scotlands exports to everywhere including the ruk are made up of. Oil. Fish. Gas. Seed potatoes. Electricity. Stud beef. Petrol. Whisky
. If England doesn’t buy these items.others will
Bella on the Brexit Farce!
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactcs in order to politically control countries
But not the BBC, they don’t do that they say
‘Ponting is just another Assange but in a kilt.’
Really?
And this from a snide in a cuntsuit.
Dr Jim says:
13 November, 2018 at 2:14 pm
The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactcs in order to politically control countries…
Oh excellent! It’s been decades since the BBC wrote a good comedy script.
From the experts.
The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactics in order to politically control countries…
Becoming clearer by the day that Scotland must follow the large number of companies fleeing the UK to secure a more prosperous future. The UK’s influence is fast diminishing, strong and stable it is not. People are looking on in wonder at the stupidity of the government in Westminster. Perhaps we should be asking more Scots where they see Scotland as part of the UK in say 5 or 10 years. Might just focus their minds, especially after 10 years of pointless austerity already. How long must Scotland suffer such unbelievable mismanagement before the penny drops?
@HYUFD says: 12 November, 2018 at 11:17 pm:
” … No Deal while that would be bad for England (and most polls show English voters want a Deal with the EU) it would also hit Scotland as England is Scotland’s largest export destination,”
Typical ignorant misinformation from a typical English/British Nationalist.
Much of that BIG Export to England is destined to be further re-exported onwards from England to the Rest of the World and typically claimed by Westminster as English Exports.
For example Scotland produces over 70% of the United
Kingdom’s Gin and much of that is exported either via the Chunnel or from other English ports or airports and is thus classed as English Exports.
Scotland produces 100% of Scotch Whisky and almost all of it is exported via England and claimed as English exports as it goes onward from English ports and air ports. Sea Food also follows that pattern as does the main bulk of soft fruit.
Oil & Gas is between 95% & 98% from Scottish waters and 100% is claimed as UK/English Exports and then there is lots of Engineering and other manufactures goods.
Don’t kid yourself on HYUFD, the truth is that not only is Scotland’s per capita GDP higher than England’s but while Scotland is a net exporter, (even with the re-export scam), England, or indeed the UK as a whole, are net importers.
That translates to Scotland is a viable economy while England is not. Which is, of course, exactly why Westminster is so set upon preventing Scottish independence. Do you seriously imagine for an instant that Westminster is so munificent that it holds Scotland so fast because it loves us so very dearly?
This fucking clown Lucy Fraser MP, might also have mentioned that Cromwell’s troops spent three days massacring the people of Dundee!
Thanks for the links Nana, in particular the one that follows which highlights that the BBC continues to be biased and that Gordon Brown continues to cultivate his wee, sleekit snake in the grass persona.
Broon mentions that Carwyn Jones (Welsh Labour) took an action out in Court against the Westminster Government, which they then dropped (Broon doesn’t tell the audience that), but there’s no mention of Nicola Sturgeon (SNP Scotland) who did likewise but rather continues to see it through to the end … and if she / we win, Wales / Labour Party will benefit.
……………………………
@ Nana …”Here’s Gordon Brown publicly backing Nicola Sturgeon on the issue of the Power Grab. He goes further by saying Holyrood should be allowed to sign deals with the EU after Brexit.
Reporting Scotland tonight employed a news blackout of Gordon Brown’s ‘Power Grab’ comments. The programme has consistently covered the former PM’s ‘interventions’ since pre-2014, but now he’s not newsworthy?”
link to twitter.com
…………………………………………………………………
The waste of space BBC, with the Scots forking out around £320m a year in TV license money, also continues with its ”news blackout” in relation to numerous serious issues such as:
link to universalcreditsuffer.com
Expose Brexit dark money:
link to youtube.com
………………………
Life in the UK now. Let’s get out.
‘Mother describes being forced to drink her baby’s milk as people living with poverty come forward to tell UN envoy their stories.’
”I was in my slippers, it was so cold. I plucked up the courage to ask them – to say I’m hungry, I have a baby. But they said “We can’t give you anything”. I had to drink my baby’s milk’….
link to independent.co.uk
@HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:01 am:
” … Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England, Wales and Northern Ireland and £22 billion to countries outside the UK so most Scottish exports go to other UK countries.
Balderdash!
Just where do those figures come from, HYUFD?
The only official figures are those of the ONS or are extrapolated from ONS data. They are all fiddled and they always have been.
Here’s just a couple of links from Rev Stu’s reference pages here on Wings:-
link to archive.is
link to telegraph.co.uk
Thankyou Mr Ponting and Phantom Power. 🙂
Perhaps I should have said that I do not want one drop of blood spilt for our independence, but given the history of the British Empire can we be sure they also believe the same.
I may have acquaintances who were definitely NO voters. Shall we say Prof J Stephenson could be seen as reasonable compared to them.
As I have said from the very beging, brexit will be used to usurp the Scots parliament. Are you ready for a war?!!!
Just nipping in before heading out again.
Spotted the latest from J Maugham
Before Scotland’s Highest Court, the Government *admitted* they couldn’t ask the Supreme Court for permission to appeal
more here
link to twitter.com
European Commission – Press release
Brexit: European Commission intensifies preparedness work and outlines contingency action plan in the event of a no deal scenario with the UK
link to europa.eu
The resident lying Britnat Tory fanatic on Wings is like a punchbag he just keeps on coming back for more with his idiotic posts. It’s like a full time job refuting his nonsense.
He never comments on the above the line article by Wings but just leeches on to others comments with his lies. Tories – running the country – telling everyone the debt is being reduced when it is nothing of the sort. Our resident Britnat Tory fanatic is just like all the Tories just bare faced liars. There has been a previous debate about whether it is good manners to call Tories scum. Sounds pretty accurate to me.
SCUM: a definition – someone so disgraceful that they are seen as the lowest form of life.
SCUM = Tories.
Hi Helena, I know what you meant.
I posted after with a Jimmy Reid style comment ie, there will be no bevvyin.
Let us follow the non violent path walked by Ghandi and trust that the world will see us in a better light.
As for the shrill cries of those who fear their inner dilemma most..
It’s democracy.
Thread by @pmdfoster: “So the ticklish moment awaits. Consistent with @tombradby am told Withdrawal Agreement texts were in London overnight, came back to […]” #Brexit
read on
link to threadreaderapp.com
Tory MPs to abstain in vote on publishing Brexit legal advice
link to archive.is
Good to see uber unionist A.Neil is making an arse of himself, again! He’s seems to be more English than any English person I’ve ever met, the ultimate forelock tugger. Surprised he hasn’t been elevated to the Lords yet, he seems to have all the qualifications.
BBC defending him to the hilt, strange as when he was Murdoch’s poodle he seemed to want it eliminated. But looking at the BBC now it would seem his natural home.
[…] come to Scotland after Brexit. In fact, Edinburgh will enjoy fewer powers. And, as Clive Ponting has said, maybe Brexit will mean the Tories get what they have always wanted and the Scottish parliament is […]
Hmmmm. Lighten up a bit fellow ‘Wingers’. Remember…
HOPE OVER FEAR.
The ‘unnecessary’ UK law curbing the powers of the Scottish Parliament is undermining devolution and should now be repealed, @Feorlean has said in response to @DLidington update to @houseofcommons on #brexit common policy frameworks
see here
link to twitter.com
This is from the link I posted at 6:42am. Keeps coming back into my head!
It’s important and well worth remembering.
Theresa May speaking about the Irish border on June 21st 2016, just two days before the referendum: “Just think about it. If we are out of the European Union with tariffs on exporting goods into the EU, there’d have to be something to recognise that, between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. And if you pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and has access to free movement?”
This shows unequivocally that May completely understood the implications of a medium to hard Brexit before voting.
This runs contrary to any narrative which says the Tories hadn’t thought about Ireland and border issues prior to EURef. The idea that Ireland came up as a problem later in EU negotiations is bollocks.
The BBC’s new Scotland channel goes live in February. (Has the missing £100 million gone on paying for this?)
I assume it will be British television since “Broadcasting” has not been devolved to Scotland… yet.
I wonder why they picked February?
Is it because a Brexit Deal or No Deal will have been settled, and the new channel can concentrate on promoting “The Vision” for Scotland?
Regarding the BBC’s campaign on fake news..
Who can forget…
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
I am calling for an on the spot fine of £200 for anyone not picking up a Tory and putting them in a wheelie bin. Best place for some scum. Yes that’s you resident Britnat fanatic.
If the policy is a success it may be on its way to England – a lot more bins will be required by the local councils in England though.
Helena at 259pm,
Totally agree. BUT that does not mean the Scotgov, when push comes to shove, can merely sit on its hands and say ‘oh but the ‘rules’ won’t let us’ do x,y,z. No, the gloves MUST come off. Nicey, nicey, will achieve nothing. Westminster is ignoring ‘the rules’, and so should scotland.
It does not mean violence. However, people do need to ask themselves what they would they do IF (or as it seems) WHEN London decides it wants to close the Scots Parliament.
If Westminster dares sequester powers or shut down the Scots parliament the Scotgov needs to be ready, with a hard hitting strategy. We can be peaceful, but that does not mean sitting on our hands. Just like the liars in Westminster we should deploy every single dirty underhanded trick and propaganda method known to man, because mark my words, that is EXACTLY what westminster will do.
Of course, as we all expect, the referendum will be called and held before brexit anyway. won’t it?
I have been wondering just what the mechanism would be to close the Scots parliament anyway. Seriously, what would they do? come up to Edinburgh, lock the doors and hide the big key? Or just state it is closed. In such circumstances, they should be wholly ignored. The mandate for the parliament comes from the Scots people (via referendum and elections), not Westminster.
Haha. You couldn’t make it up. The lying propagandist state controlled BBC are apprently trying to educate people about ‘fake news’. How about you just show every single episode of Reporting Scotland back to back. Propaganda Brit nat style.
Honestly, what a joke, the BBC are world’s biggest state run and controlled propaganda outfit in earth.
@HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:18 am:
” … Weechhid It would have been perfectly possible to have a Canada style FTA for the whole UK with the EU and find a technical solution to avoid a hard border in Ireland”
Oh! Stop talking utter pish. No one in their right senses expected other than the EU to want nothing to do with any other deals than stay and accept the EU freedoms or leave without any of them.
It is one thing to make a deal with new members getting good terms upon joining, Westminster knows this for did not Thatcher get concessions? It is quite another thing for a member state woo got concessions to then walk away expecting even more concessions upon leaving.
Obviously the EU draws the conclusion, and understandably so, that if such concessions were given to a leaving member state then most other remaining member states would demand the same, or better concessions.
There isn’t going to be an adventitious deal for the UK.
a Robert Louis,
Ever tried to run a country without money ? Westminster holds the purse strings. Sure we can disobey, but we can’t pay.
I like most of the others on here want our freedom through peaceful means but history tells us this will not happen I am sorry to say but like the Irish priest who was asked if he would like a free united Ireland said yes with all my heart but the day the first life was lost the price became to high or as Gandhi said I am willing to die for my cause but I am not willing to kill for it
@Thepnr says:13 November, 2018 at 12:33 am:
” … I’m sick of reading his shite”
I’ve news for you, it isn’t compulsory, so just don’t read it.
Reminds me of the Doctor! Doctor joke:-
Patient: Doctor! Doctor! Every time I lift my arm up like this it hurts,
GP: Well don’t do it then.
Seriously, By engaging with the English Nationalists we learn how they think and thus have our answers ready when we meet them in the flesh.
Wings is a forum for debate and for information – it isn’t an old wife’s sowing circle for drinking tea and everyone agreeing with each other.
Bob Mack
So how much does self respect cost? Maybe if you contact failed pet food salesman and “economics expert” Kevin Hague he can do a graph for you, he too knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Re bbc stealing 100 mil or whatever of Scots licence payers hard earned dosh, anyone stupid and/or cowardly enough to be still paying the propaganda tax deserves to get shafted every which way.
——————————————
Informative, incisive, cheap and very easy to distribute –
link to indyposterboy.scot
Bob Mack at 424pm
Yes, of course, but other countries have done so, and succeeded. The last thing Westminster will need is a full on fight with Scotland at brexit. They would back down. But it needs our elected officials to put up a fight first.
Ministers and political party representatives being called into Downing street to be briefed on Brexit says SKY news
But not representatives from the SNP
Thank you NANA for all your sooper duuuuper links , BTW I don’t eat meat so they are veggie links .
Just watched the Joanna Cherry skewering of corporal frazer and left a comment .
Can anyone tell me if the tolie government appealing to the SC by challenging the Scottish Law Officials decision is in breach of the treaty and acts of union , and if so has the govt effectively #dissolved the union .
The very fact that frazer admitted that they knew the rules yet were ignoring the rules meant that they were challenging the SG to do something about it
Nicola is this another open goal , she SHOOOOTS , SHE SCOOOOORES
latest re Brexit
link to twitter.com
Could all have changed in the time taken to write this
Oh how awful for Jakob, must be what a colony feels like
link to twitter.com
Lol, it looks like a ‘No Deal’ then.
This is vassal state stuff. We will not have protected our precious Union.Dublin has more say in this.and on and on Boris,ReesMog crying in their beer. Why do they not all bugger off and leave our wee but clever Scotland to govern itself away from these loonies.
‘The white flags have gone up all over Whitehall’
Jacob Rees-Mogg.
As soon as the terms of Brexit are known and before the UK leaves the EU we must declare independence. Call it UDI or cessation of Treaty with England, or whatever.I fear using a referendum, too much electronic jiggery pokery means to interfere around for my taste. And rely on no nation, institution, or peoples to support us.
Famous15 says:
Exactly!
Brexit is such a monumental constitutional change that all options need to be considered.
If England genuinely wants ‘independence’ then that should be respected and they can get on with it. No one should stand in their way if that is the will of their people.
Equally, Scotland needs to be allowed without external interference to consider the road it takes.
And, Northern Ireland can consider whether its future lies with a united Ireland or with England.
The key thing SHOULD be that each party goes away, debates, and chooses without seeking to influence others.
With so many BritNats welded to Project Greater England, there isn’t a snowball in Hell’s chance of democratic will being respected.
velofello @ 17:50,
Oh, aye, and all the nations of the world will rally to us if we simply declare indy. Like they did with Catalonia.
We are right on the cusp of winning, so we can do without these calls from hotheads and planted APs.
But we certainly do need IR2 before we are torn out against our expressed will, whether in March or delayed. That’s called democracy.
It’s not like we lack the facts and good reason.
Chris Grey replying to a Peston thread
Takeaway from this is how short (& therefore presumably vague) the PD is. Blind Brexit is the implication
link to twitter.com
I really don’t get it.
In Scots Law the people are sovereign.
They made the sovereign decision to remain in the EU.
Scots Law is part of the British Constitution.
A country can only leave the EU in line with its own constitution.
The UK is not doing this.
Why isn’t anyone taking this to the ECJ?
A deal is done!
Things hotting up. It looks as if the leaked deal is right enough. Which way will they vote? They lose either way.
Ian Brotherhood @ 17:48,
Maybe he is not just grandstanding again and has a whiff of a deal brewing between UKGov and the EU27. But the question remains: whatever it is, can May get it through the HoC?
Maybe Labour in the end won’t vote for it. But what if they simply follow recent precedent and abstain…?
@Thepnr says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:53 am:
” … See the carrot on the end of that stick? Don’t bite it.”
The only one to bite that carrot so far is you – I’m not taking a bite at his carrot. I’m having a bite at your carrot – go figure!
If the PM’s ‘deal’ satisfies no-one and can’t command a majority, we mustn’t fall for her spin that the UK crashing out of EU without a deal is then inevitable – instead we should take the opportunity to get better options back on the table.
link to twitter.com
One former Brexiteer Cabinet minister tells me: “We are all toast aren’t we. This is almost like the Titanic – she can’t steer it and she is not going to let anyone else steer it. Normally rats leave a sinking ship – this lot have stayed on it.
link to twitter.com
Forgot this one earlier
link to twitter.com
Scotland inside the E.U. will still trade with England outside the E.U. the same as any other country outside the E.U. do, eg India China, Russia and many more
@Robert Peffers
Haven’t read any of your shite for a long time either.
We simply cannot allow Scotland to be forcibly dragged out of the EU by England in this way. I do not care what anybody says about ‘constitutional norms’ or whatever. These are exceptional times, brexit will crucify Scottish industry.
It is simply not good enough for elected representatives to say ‘no we cannae’. No country in the world would allow such a thing. Not one. No matter what their rules or whatever previously said, NO country would simply stand by and allow it.
The time is near when our elected representatives NEED to fight this tooth and nail. All other government business needs suspended. These are desperate times and it is not good enough to just ‘carry on as normal’, within either the Scottish Government or Scottish Parliament’.
We do not need to wait any longer ‘to see what the brexit deal will win’. We know it is a mess. Call the freaking referendum.
Deal or no deal, we’re already fully aware Brexit is an economic and constitutional catastrophe. At least one faction within UK gov are aware of this too. The other one really doesn’t give a shit about the fallout for the population so long as they achieve their aim of the Singapore of the north. Both are looking for the main constitutional and political advantage. Both are looking for scapegoats to slide economic calamity upon.
Now more than ever, I’d say cool heads are required. Measured responses from our government and measured responses from their support. Panic and frustrated rage will not help anyone.
The public gave them a popular vote and a job of work to do. Let them do it. This was never going to be easy and it was always going to come down to the last breathe of legal and constitutional process.
And yeah, you’d be insane not to be on your last nerve. That’s being human for you.
Boris Johnson this evening:
‘It’s vassal state stuff as for the first time in 1,000 years this parliament will not have a say over the laws that govern this country.
It is utterly unacceptable to anybody who believes in democracy.’
I say, anyone for irony? No takers? How about good old-fashioned hypocrisy? Still no? Well then, very good, it’ll just have to be two-faced shitebag then.
See these ****** ****** *********s ********s so they are – and that’s puttin’ it mildly.
Chin ******* chin.
A deal is done with T May and the EU.
The deal will be undone in the Commons.
Either way why should we care (other than having a poor, chaotic neighbour)? If the deal doesn’t entail staying in the SM and CU we’re out.
The penny seems to have dropped with Boris now. “This deal will have implications for the Union” ……. or words to that effect. Any deal that he could come up with, but the lazy, arrogant ignoramus can’t, would have implications for the Union too.
Union? What Union?
I must admit to feeling every Indy article and comment I read that, we who have switched on to the dangers faced by our Country are coming to the conclusion that we MUST immediately prepare ourselves and our fellow citizens for an unspeakable onslaught from the ‘powers that be’.
I also trust that our Government is also preparing for such a probability and that we shall all be ready for that moment when it is beyond doubt; in order that we are ready to grasp our Independence by the most peaceful and internationally recognised route possible or be ready to face the attacks from a decadent and dying Westminster and its lackeys.
@RP at 4.28
Exactly, it’s excellent training, and unlike for real with potential YES voters, who repeat the stuff they read or see in the MSM, we at least have the luxury here of getting somewhat
pissed offexasperated, also good training for keeping the heid in “real life”.In the last two years the English government has gone to excesses in its efforts to prove to the world what brainless incompetent power hungry maniacs they really are and yet even now as they struggle with these final bits of invented nonsense which are a creation of desperation to hold *their* precious Union together so they can still financially survive off the assets of Scotland their deceit in these matters is apparent and blatant
The English government has failed to bend Ireland to its will as any uninformed layman would have told them at the beginning of this benighted process with the support and backing of the EU Ireland has stood strong and it’s England that now finds itself lost with its only hope of salvation the plan to ensnare Scotland without actually admitting it, because friends that’s what it’s all about now, Scotland and how to hang on to it or England goes belly up and busted and I for one am delighted at the prospect of that country getting exactly what it thought it voted for and long may they deserve it until they waken up and see what fools their own government has made of them
Where is Jacob Reese Moggs money, where is Boris Johnsons money, where is any of their money, well we know where it isn’t, it isn’t in their beloved country of England now is it, it’s invested in every other country bar their own, that’s how much they love you English folk, they’re not stockpiling they don’t need to, we know there’ll be hardships they say, that means for you not for them Jacob’s never taken the top off his own boiled egg in the morning he has a nanny to do that whereas you might be very short of a boiled egg mighty soon
I’m sure they’ll care deeply though because it is what you voted for…..isn’t it? control of your boiled egg
The end game is now here depending on the vote. Nicola has done a fantastic job of Roman style horemanship in riding two horses at once. Protdcting Unionists and indy voters alike.The time to choose one horse however is with us now. If Unionists want to preserve their way of life they will just have to get on board. Simple as that.
Nicola should in the very future return to the real issue which is independence for Scotland as her only concern.
Jackie Birds face tripping her tonight on Reporting Scotland. She had to read out an apology for MISREPORTING yesterday’s report on A. Salmond and Edinburgh airport etc. Great laugh it was.
Is Keith Brown coming down on them?
I won’t hold my breath for the apology for Misreporting in Scotland for the last 30 years. After independence the apology will be too late. Tories may be scum but BBC Scotland are scumbags.
The fudge is now reappearing out of England’s backside.
BBC and other UK wide broadcasters. No interviews with third largest party at Westminster but quotes David Mundell.
Message to get over:
England and Wales voted Leave get their wish
Northern Ireland and Gibraltar: voted Remain but get special deal
Scotland votes Remain and gets SFA but powers removed.
On latest attempts to anglicise Scots Law: Derek Ogg QC on Reporting Scotland talked sense. There should be two verdicts Proven and Not Proven as that is all any jury is asked to consider in any case.
They are not asked about innocence or guilt…..do not let Scottish Government remove distinctive elements of Scots Law when there is no need to.
Corroboration also safeguards defendants from miscarriage of justice and Scots juries can convict on a majority of 8 to 7 but in England a 10-2 majority is required.
@Albert Herring @6.15
Perhaps this is a case of wait and see what happens. It is worth speculating about thuogh.
Also AIUI it’s not only the ScotGov who could puruse a court action, any individual or group wth deep pockets or a crowdfunder could do it – if it seemed like a good idea and neccessary.
Nana says:
13 November, 2018 at 6:38 pm
If the PM’s ‘deal’ satisfies no-one and can’t command a majority, we mustn’t fall for her spin that the UK crashing out of EU without a deal is then inevitable – instead we should take the opportunity to get better options back on the table….
Biting my tongue… why do NOTHING until the opportunities are off the table in the first place???
How can we progress to this Brexit “deal” with such frequent regard to the sensibilities of Ireland, while Scotland’s interests don’t even warrant a mention?
It is NOT the time to put options back on the table when we’re not even admitted to the room which the table is in. It’s time to demand access and kick their damned cosy little table over.
It’s very possible that May has totally outflanked Jacob Rees-Mogg., Johnson and all the rest of the rabid Brexiteers, by taking the UK to the edge of the cliff and saying “OK then, jump. If you dare.”.
@Thepnr
I can’t help thinking RP has found a new leaf, and turned it over to see what’s on the other side, and likes what he sees. Patience mon Brave!
@Macart
It’s an endgame. And if we don’t like that endgame, we have others!
HYUFD says:
13 November, 2018 at 12:01 am
!Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England”
England exports to Scotland around 60 bn, which is more than what Scotland exports to England.
Take a look at your nearest supermarket, HYUFD. Were are most UK products from? Where are most UK products prepared and packed? Where are the main distribution centers? Where are our animals been taken to be slaughtered? What ports do our produce leave the UK from?
Now Ttke a look at the products in your home: where most of it comes from? Sofas? furniture? clothes? glasses, medicines, decorative items? Where are the HQ of most of our retailers and any other shops that pay the corporation tax? Where is most of the VAT generated by Scotland’s economic activities paid because of where those HQ are? How many jobs are currently generated in England due to the economic activities of Scotland?
Sorry, but you are attempting to deceive here by talking absolute nonsense. England has a massive stake in Scotland’s economic activities that goes well beyond the actual amount it exports. And of course do not forget all the other taxes that we pay: DVLA, NI, etc.
The worry of May for the “internal market” is not really for “the UK”. It is for England. Why? Because if Scotland becomes independent, all that corporation tax, VAT, NI, salary tax, that is paid in England due to economic activities in Scotland will be paid in Scotland. BEcause all those jobs currently in England to serve Scotland’s economic activities (packing, preparing, distributing, selling us insurance, making and selling us furniture, making glasses or contacts for us, etc ) will be going to Scotland (together with all their direct and indirect taxes). Because if there is ever a hard border with Scotland, England will lose 60 bn in revenues of direct exports.
Do you know how much is the current deficit of England in trade of goods? It is around 100 bn. Scotland is in surplus, so its deficit of trade of goods is 0. 60 bn plus all the revenues England gets indirectly from Scotland’s economic activities goes a very long way to put a plaster in such an eyewatering deficit.
Scotland may export a bigger percentage of items to England, but England has a much lower percentage of exports of goods compared with imports than Scotland. England has a much, much, much bigger vested interest and stake in Scotland’s economy than the other way round.
Frankly, if you are going to make an statement, at least make it complete, leaving it half way is of no use.
Albert Herring at 615pm,
Totally agree with you. It is time for our existence as an actual country which happens to be in a treaty with England, is addressed. The union treaty can be ended by either signatory. It is not special, or magic. It is just an agreement.
Totally agree with re-asserting every facet of Scots law, because it seems most in Westminster know nothing about it.
Thepnr @6:42
All evidence to the contrary
@ Cubby says at 7:12 pm …. ”Jackie Birds face tripping her tonight on Reporting Scotland. She had to read out an apology for MISREPORTING yesterday’s report on A. Salmond and Edinburgh airport etc. Great laugh it was. Is Keith Brown coming down on them?”…
Any idea what she said last night, Cubby?
Brexit will divide the English for a generation & Police Scotland will be asked to go south to help out with the rioters. What city will go up in flames first?
Nana @ 18:38,
Not far down on the FM’s twitter feed there’s the usual English twat crowing about how we couldn’t survive on our own on “IrnBru and deep fried Mars bars*”.
Which begs the usual question, why are they so keen to hang on to us then…?
*(And the only people I’ve ever seen ordering a deep fried Mars bar in a chipper were English tourists having a laugh.)
Mike Russell probably would have more chance of getting a copy of the “ so-called draft agreement “ from the EU side than the so-called “ United Kingdom” of Scotland & England.The “ union treaty of 1707” has to be now “ called out” as being in complete disrepute and effectively over.
if May does manage to progress this, it will be by promising different things to different people/groups down the line.
To all … this is the best withdrawal agreement possible.
To most ….result of EURef can be delivered.
To many … don’t worry the final trade deal will be so comprehensive problems like Ireland and business concerns will disappear.
To others … don’t worry the final trade deal will not be customs union and we will take back control.
To some … we can still leave at the end of the transition period with no trade deal.
Hard to believe, that so late into the game, some people still think the SNP Scotsgov have no plans.
When things move, they will move quickly.
Todays proclamation means nothing until WM approves it or dismisses it. Absolutely nothing of actual relevence to our timing has occurred yet.
Aye, I can see Scots law protecting us. I wish I had some examples from the past. Cant see what they have done over the last three hundred years or so, except Lord Cooper
First things first , let’s see if outright civil war now within Gov / Tory party ? If Yes then May finished. If No ( seems unlikely? ) however, standby for the biggest propaganda blitz since Sept 2014.
@Yesindyref2
Pretty much. 😉
Lot of irons in the fire about now. 🙂
@ Fred says at 7:36 pm …. ”Brexit will divide the English for a generation & Police Scotland will be asked to go south to help out with the rioters. What city will go up in flames first?”
Fred there was an article in the National recently (can’t find it now) that outlined that there had been a meeting in September, of the National Police Chiefs’ Council, whereby a pact was made for a UK joint Police unit to respond to Brexit particularly in Northern Ireland, if there’s going to be a hard border. Police Scotland had vowed to send around 400 cops (I think?) to NIreland. Meanwhile what do we do with a depleted force in Scotland? Oh right, they’ll send even more English cops up here. The Union’s policing musical chair scam.
HYUFD is a frequent commenter on the site ‘conservativehome’ among others. He’s an Old Tonbridgean.
Consequently, one might as well preach to a brick wall.
Conserve your energy citizens.
Les Wilson England benefits from.selling goods to Scotland no doubt, Scotland benefits even more as a percentage of its economy from goods sold to England
Xaracen Scotland receives less in net subsidy than Wales and Northern Ireland and the North and Midlands to be fair but only London, the SouthEast and East make a net contribution to the UK Treasury
Petra@7.29pm
It’s a bit tricky to explain clearly. Here goes. Yesterday they were so desperate to get more Salmond smears on their 6.30 pm show they rushed a report on AFTER the weather report. Never seen that before. There was new info about the police talking to Edinburgh airport staff re A Salmond. No comment from police. Britnats leaking or making up stories. Who knows.
As part of this report they reported incompetently that the SNP had reported Alex Salmond to the authorities for sexual misconduct. Obviously total rubbish.
They covered the story on the late evening show at the beginning and gave it big licks but this time without the stupid wrong statement. Just said the police were talking to Edinburgh airport re A Salmond – made a big deal out of very little info.
Of course they never apologised to Michelle Thompson and that was a total disgrace. So why have they apologised now for that wrong statement.
Are they incompetent propagandists. Either way they are scumbags.
The Britnat media have got members of the public that are Britnat SNP haters to lie previously. This is a very worrying trend. Make no mistake there are Britnats out there who will risk a lot to attack the SNP and in particular its leaders. Their hatred knows no bounds.
Britnats are liars.
Robert Peffers The largest single consumer of Scotch whisky and gin outside Scotland is England (the USA has its own whisky like Jack Daniels).
England on its own would be the 7th largest economy in the world, Scotland the 46th
The Statute of Jewry was a statute issued by Henry III of England in 1253,
Article One provided that any Jew could only remain in England only if he or she would “serve Us in some way”
Article Nine commanded that “every Jew wear his badge conspicuously on his breast”,
The Edict of Expulsion was a royal decree issued by King Edward I of England on 18 July 1290, expelling all Jews from the Kingdom of England.
Robert Peffers The EU has trade deals with Japan and Canada and South Korea and could do the same for the UK with a technical solution for the Irish border without the whole UK Customs Union May has had to agree
Robert Peffers If I was an English nationalist I would be advocating for England to leave the UK as well as the EU
@Macart
And it only needs one to work.
Angry troll comes forth from under bridge!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha.
That’s what it feels like to be a vassal state buddy.
Is it now time for the treaty of union to be brought to the fore. Supposedly it was a U.K. decision to leave the EU . Supposedly the sovereignty of the Scottish people is vested in our MP’s who represent us at Westminster. I assume that a majority of Scots MP’s voted against the decision to invoke Article 50. Consequently how can this be compatible with the “ equal partner” union treaty of 1707 ?
Our resident fanatical English Tory Britnat seems to have a complex about size. Size does seem to matter to him. England is bigger this bigger that. Bit of a fascist bully complex coming out every so often.
“but only London, the SouthEast and East make a net contribution to the UK Treasury”
From for instance, all the Government ministries, paid for by the whole UK but jobs concentrated in London and around (like Croydon). Or Defence with HQs in England, but barracks in Scotland, an airbase and a naval base, no top brass, research etc.
So these are paid by the whole UK including Scotland, but the economic benefit – jobs, taxes, go to London, the South-east and East. In other words, they’re subsidy junkies.
Similar too for the BBC, where Scotland gets back £100 million a year less than it pays in, subsidising the largely London-based BBC.
Scotland is “pooling” our resources, the UK shares it out largely to “London, the SouthEast and East”. No wonder they contribute more revenues, they’re taking all our money.
Maria Total English exports are over £300 billion so exports to Scotland about 20 to 25% of that. Of course England benefits from Scottish imports and sending goods to Scotland but it works the other way too
For Hyfud:
From the Bonzos, just for you…
“Little Sir Echo how do you do, Hallo, Hallo”
If you think Wings is an echo chamber, try breaking out of your own head space.
“You’re always so far away…”
It would certainly help Scotland if civil war breaks out in England, as long as we weren’t sucked into it, and thus broke free from this disgusting union with England.
The civil service and local government and the public sector are a lower percentage of jobs in London and the South East than the rest of the UK
Dan Hull Scotland was involved in the last English Civil War, first on the side of Parliament then on the side of the Royalists and the future Charles IInd
“The battle for independence may get nasty, but it can and must be won.”
It will definitely be won – in 2640 AD, in my humble opinion.
Some esteemed posters who do not hesitate to pontificate at length on any subject under the sun have gone completely silent regarding the timing of the next independence reason.
Has Nicola issued a secret gagging order against them?
“English Civil War” ha ha ha! Says it all.