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The whistleblower

Posted on November 12, 2018 by

Clive Ponting is the original British whistleblower. Long before Assange and Snowden, Ponting leaked details of a cover-up that shook the British political establishment.

Working as a senior civil servant at the heart of power, Clive Ponting grew increasingly uneasy by what he witnessed. The Belgrano affair was the final straw and Ponting’s leaking of documents to MPs sparked a scandal that would lead to his arrest, trial and eventual aquittal.

He went on to pen books on the affair, an insider’s view of Whitehall and is the acclaimed author of works on the green history of the world and deconstructing the myth of Churchill.

In a live event and interview Clive reflects on his time at Whitehall and offers an insight into the murky and often chaotic world of British state which he sees as essentially corrupt. Clive has had a long standing admiration for Scotland and its values since his youth and moved from France to Kelso in 2016.

He considers independence as the obvious choice for Scots as well as a way to escape the amoral British system. Brexit is both an opportunity and a danger for Scotland as Westminster may well use emergency measures to centralise power and dissolve the Scottish Parliament. The battle for independence may get nasty, but it can and must be won.

(Previous episodes here.)

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    1. 12 11 18 21:56

      The whistleblower | speymouth

    2. 13 11 18 15:31

      THAT MAGIC MONEY TREE ONLY SEEMS TO BLOOM WHEN IT SUITS MAYHEM – MUNGUIN'S NEW REPUBLIC

    430 to “The whistleblower”

    1. Helena Brown says:

      I never thought it would be easy,the thing with the the UK is that you actually have to be a drain on their resources to get out from them St Kitts and Nevis have a museum which would educate many in this country. We are more like Ireland we just may have to shoot our way out thanks in part to the No voters.

    2. Scotspatriot says:

      A few years ago, I was on a hop on touristic bus in Philadelphia. It took us to the older part of town and stopped at a church grave yard. There were many little gravestones with Stars and Stripes flags planted next to them. The tour guide informed us that they died fighting for Independence.
      We can do this Independence thing without a bottle of milk being spilt, but we must project our message more effectively.
      I have it from reliable sources that the BBC wasn’t up and running in these days of USA wars of Independence.

    3. Dan Huil says:

      Ponting was brave in exposing britnat corruption and Westminster’s endemic malfeasance. We need brave people like him on our side.

    4. Thepnr says:

      @Helena Brown

      Think of every No voter as a potential convert to the Yes side. The ordinary No voter are also our friends, family and colleagues.

      Every one of them is persuadable and that is our job.

      Good work again Phantom Power, please keep these coming as they will prove to be very powerful when we next start our campaign of persuasion. You’re doing a brilliant job. Cheers.

    5. Marc Rich says:

      We are going to have to much much smarter this time around.

      Whitehall is playing for keeps. Do not underestimate this.

      Its easy to think they are incompetent and deficient but there are some clever clever in Whitehall.

      Our best chance at success is showing Scots the facts around how much wealth we produce and how badly Whitehall has stewarded our wealth over the last 30/50/100 years.

      The SNP need to nail the currency issue, we need an independent currency, and make a better run at that GERS fiction.

      We have work to do, but we will get there.

      Its the small daily conversations with people, the small things done daily, millions of small things done a lot add up in to huge results.

    6. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The battle for independence may get nasty.

      Yep I have feared for sometime that the broken Regime may lash out and turn nastier.

      The battle for independence must be won for the sake of all of our loved ones.

      Wont be easy though, the monster that is Westminster will not let the cash cow which is Scotland go easily for without our wealth they have very little.

    7. dakk says:

      What a great guy.

      Englishman Clive Ponting would put 55% of pathetic cringing british nationalist Scots to shame.

    8. Pete Barton says:

      Nae bullets.

      And there will be nae bevvyin’ either!

    9. Fred says:

      First class, a brave principled man!

    10. Muscleguy says:

      What a wonderful human being Clive Ponting is. We are so lucky to have him as a Scot here in Scotland. He is here, he lives here, chose deliberately to live here so he is a Scot.

      I hope the SNP hear his fears about the emergency powers and hurries the feck up on indyref2. All their clever, clever triangulation, picking the perfect moment stuff could all be in vain.

      They could well be faced with a stark choice, accept Holyrood being wound up against the democratic wishes of Scots or UDI before they can send the army in to evict them. We may have to form a human shield around Holyrood. Be prepared.

    11. McDuff says:

      Good man to have on board.

    12. Thepnr says:

      Emergency Powers! Close down Holyrood! Food and medicine rations! Power cuts and blackouts! No petrol! Pensions not paid!

      Anyone of the above scenarios will guarantee Scotland gains Independence so don’t fear it. See it as a gift from the leading Brexiteers Rees-Mogg, Davies, Johnson et al.

      The lunatics are losing control of the madhouse.

    13. Bob Mack says:

      Scots are a funny breed, excepting those of course who identify with their Ulster cousins. I tend to find my fellow Scots thoughtful and considerate, until you rub them up the wrong way. Then you have something to fear.

      I am older now, but if any force under the Army Chief of Staff who stated on the Marr show that they would (keep order under Brexit) decides to shut my Parliament, I will be there.

      We must stand up and be counted. This battered nation has hardly known any peace. Perpetual war has drained us of the young men and women who died for Empire King and country in foreign fields,serving a concept of Imperialism created by the Union, often in greater per capita of population than others within the Union.

      No more I say. I will not be bowed. My Parliament is my parliament. It is not England’s to toy with any more. I pray for peace and common sense, because I have personally crossed the Rubicon on Independence and there will be no going back at any cost.

    14. Capella says:

      Many thanks for this video to Clive Ponting and Phantom Power. We wanted to go to Kelso to hear his talk but it would have been a 400 mile round trip from Aberdeenshire so we hoped it would be recorded.

      He certainly has a lot of courage and deserves all the support needed to get his message out. This is a good start. Hope there will be much more to come.

    15. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      There will be much more to come, from the Rev’s twitter.

      https://twitter.com/mgreenwell/status/1062108396348948480

    16. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – oh great. thx for the hint – you’re certainly keeping up to speed!

    17. yesindyref2 says:

      Oooh “Your browser does not currently recognise any of the video formats available. ”

      You have to wonder sometimes why things are kept secret, better perhaps to let the people decide. Some would say the Belgrano was no longer a threat and was heading home, others would say she had zigged and zagged for some time in a similar fashion, and could just as easily head back to the Falklands, plus there were other Argentinian warships involved in the “pattern”.

      With supression of information, it makes it more likely the public will think the Government of the day had something to hide, as they often did. Military tactiticians would prefer to know for real, as it could affect actions in the future.

    18. Phil says:

      Thanks Phantom Power once again. Clive Ponting, a hero from the 1980’s, has remained so.

    19. Macart says:

      If that doesn’t leave a lasting impression, nothing will. A powerful piece by Phantom Power and Mr Ponting.

    20. Peter Gillies says:

      Independance was never given it had to be fought for.

    21. Robert Louis says:

      Muscleguy at 1010pm

      Totally agree with what you say re indyref. I would not put it past Westminster to presume to take such action.

      I have however, often wondered how a scenario such as that might play out. You see Scotland has its own legal system. So, let’s say Westminster say ‘because we have created such a mess with brexit, we have decided here in England, to close the Scottish parliament. In response, UDI is declared by scotgov. From that moment onwards, Scotland is an independent country, so any supposed ‘sending in of troops’ would be an invasion.

      In addition, since the legal system is different, Westminster could not take the same kind of action which the fascist government in Spain took towards Catalunya. What could they charge anybody for?

      Either way, I think it would only serve to strengthen support for independence, so long term the effect would be to achieve that. So I doubt Westminster would be so stupid. Or would they??

      Nemo me impune lacessit, as it says above the entrance to Edinburgh castle.

    22. Golfnut says:

      To many people forget that out of the entire Empire, Scotland is the only country that can drag Westminster, its ministers, civil service and military through the courts. Scotland’s Courts. Why? because Scotland and England are joined in a political union by Treaty. Because Scotland and England Share a monarch with two crowns. Queen of Scots and Queen of England. The UK gov is not the Gov of the Queen of England, the treasury, armed forces etc, are not titled HM Queen of England Treasury, civil service or armed forces. They are jointly the Queen of Scots. They are going to have enough bother facing charges of theft, without adding armed intervention to thwart the constitutional process. The UK isn’t Spain and its not the 1920’s. There’s a line they can’t cross and I have little doubt they know exactly where it is.

    23. Ghillie says:

      Gratitude to Phantom Power Films as always =)

      I am grateful to Clive Ponting for speaking with such courage.

      His revelations are an eyeopener but now I am not surprised, as we all know so much more about corruption in the previously trusted high places.

      His final remarks are chilling.

      Yet many folk have already aired the view that Brexit could be dangerous for all the people of these islands and especially for Scotland in far more ways than just cues at Dover, food and medicine shortages.

      I have no fear that the SNP are prepared for this.

      Thank you to the kind lady of Galla who first welcomed Clive and his wife to Scotland 🙂

    24. HYUFD says:

      Ponting is just another Assange but in a kilt.

      I doubt Westminster would actually send troops up to Edinburgh and shut Holyrood and arrest Sturgeon, indeed had Scotland voted for independence in 2014 Westminster had promised to respect the result though I expect George Osborne would have tried to screw Scotland in the same way Barnier is trying to screw the UK after the Brexit vote, it would have been very difficult divorce proceedings.

      The question is whether Scotland votes for independence in another referendum but with No Deal while that would be bad for England (and most polls show English voters want a Deal with the EU) it would also hit Scotland as England is Scotland’s largest export destination and if England leaves the EU, the single market and has no FTA with the EU it also means the same applies with Scotland

    25. Famous15 says:

      I just hate Anglo wannabees patronisingly making a Scottish thing Scottish by adding a kilt.

      We also take rather a lot of English goods,in fact more than we export south so any thought of punishing Scotland in a trade war for having the temerity to be independent is frankly horse manure.

    26. dcanmore says:

      Back in 2013 (I think), I wrote on here about what the British Establishment would be capable of, such as the UK Government calling a constitutional crisis that would gain permission through a Westminster vote to shut down the Scottish Parliament indefinitely to prevent independence.

      rUK would be bankrupt without Scotland, that is what they know, we’re the last country of the ‘British Empire’ to lose and that is the end game for the British Establishment. If Scotland were to achieve independence then they would fear insurrection.

      Scotland needs to be tough and prepared, with Brexit the end game is coming.

    27. Alba Laddie says:

      HYFUD is just another Daniel Defoe in a Morris dancing outfit.

    28. Hamish100 says:

      HYYOUFUD
      Ponting showed Thatcher was lying – as unionists do. Not sure if he wears a kilt. English patronage a wee bit there but good luck to him should he choose too.

      As for your other comments this evening ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    29. Col says:

      I think Scotland is going through a period of pain in the near future no matter what happens. If we play our cards right independence will come fairly soon I think. If we get the message out that it’s totally unacceptable the way we are treated the way we are by such morally corrupt politicians from another country and some from our own we can make enough people see what we do.
      Start talking more about dissolving the union with our mad neighbours and less about leaving some BBC created reality that doesn’t really exist. There’s no hope for Scotland in the UK because we will be powerless. Only by taking the power back do we have a hope in hell of running this country the way a country should be run. By its citizens for its citizens.

    30. HYUFD says:

      Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England, Wales and Northern Ireland and £22 billion to countries outside the UK so most Scottish exports go to other UK countries.
      https://fullfact.org/economy/does-scotland-export-twice-much-england-it-does-rest-world/

      The percentage of English exports to Scotland is lower than that

    31. HYUFD says:

      dcanmore The Falklands and Gibraltar have almost universal pro British majorities, Wales has a Unionist First Minister too as for the moment does Northern Ireland

    32. HYUFD says:

      Hamish100 Argentina invaded the Falklands and intelligence showed the Belgrano had been ordered to attack the British task force

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080490/Belgrano-Britain-WAS-right-sink-ship-attacked-Task-Force.html

    33. Weechid says:

      HUFD Barnier isn’t trying to screw anyone. UK wanted to leave the clun and keep the benefits – it can’t be done and nobody is going to make exceptions just because the “But we’re British” lot start declaring their exceptionalism. Westminster has sent troops to Scotland in the past and I’ve no doubt that they would do it again.

      Westminster may have promised to respect a Yes vote but as they have broken all the other promises they made I’m not certain that they would have respected it at all.

    34. Famous15 says:

      Panto season already.

      To the purveyor of horse manure “Oh .No it isn’t”

    35. HYUFD says:

      Weechhid It would have been perfectly possible to have a Canada style FTA for the whole UK with the EU and find a technical solution to avoid a hard border in Ireland but Barnier insisted Northern Ireland must stay in the Customs Union and in effect the Single Market too meaning a FTA would only be offered to GB not Northern Ireland and thus dividing the UK along the Irish Sea

    36. Masslass says:

      Tell us here in the USA what we can do to help. PLEASE

    37. Thepnr says:

      I see many still falling over themselves to defeat the troll in an argument that you cannot win. Please desist as you only encourage him, I’m sick of reading his shite.

    38. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at1 2.05 am

      There you go again. Quoting the Daily Mail. Are you too far away to hear the laughter?

      Just as matter of interest lots of Scots exports to England are merely passing through. One of the first things we will do when independent will be to rebuild Scottish ports and start exporting directly from Scottish ports again.

      It is interesting to note that before Ireland joined the EU 45 years ago it exported about 75% to England and 25% to Europe. That is now completely reversed. It is now planning direct huge ferries to Europe and not going through England to the continent. (It also has paid of all its debt and has no deficit unlike the UK with a £2,000,000,000,000 debt).

      FYUFD is telling us three things.
      After a union of 310 years a clever and industrious country with more natural resources than most is an economic basket case -and the union is a good thing.

      The UK, in huge debt’ is hanging onto Scotland to throw money at us. Aye,right! (Somebody can perhaps translate that for him)

      The Scottish people are the only people in the world’s 196 nations too stupid to run themselves.

      As I said, you have no idea. Anybody who quotes the Daily Mail in Scotland is treated with derision. But we get amused

    39. marga says:

      Wings get-togethers – Can’t work out how to do this properly, and will I get my knuckles rapped, for asking if there’s anything on in Edinburgh 7-15 December? There for a week and would love to meet up with anyone who’s around.

    40. HYUFD says:

      Ireland has no land border with England and most Scottish exports still go to England despite Scotland having been part of the EU along with England for 40 years.
      Ireland also has very low tax to attract investors and had heavy austerity to reduce its debt and deficit.
      There are other former countries now parts of larger countries, Bavaria, the former Republic of Germany, the Maharajah states

    41. HYUFD says:

      The former Republic of Texas now part of the USA, the former Kingdom of Naples and Republic of Venice now part of Italy etc

    42. Thepnr says:

      See the carrot on the end of that stick? Don’t bite it.

    43. Chick McGregor says:

      Anyone who believes the massively distorted ‘export’ figures to England is an ignoramus. No, Scotland is NOT the only country in the developed world that England has a trade surplus with.

      That is just fantasy trade accountancy made possible by the natural goods transport logistics of basic geography.

      It is in effect, Scotland’s hyper equivalent of the ‘Rotterdam Effect’ much complained about by rexiteers where they claimed that the UK’s apparently massive exports to Holland were a distortion of UK to EU export statistics because some of the
      exports sent there went furth of Europe.

      That claim was not true because in point of fact, very little of the goods sent to Rotterdam did end up outside Europe.

      But in Scotland’s case, it is not just a matter of how many of Scotland’s ‘exports’ to England end up furth of Europe but also how many of them end up in Europe.

      In other words, the ‘Rotterdam Effect’ of England is far, far, greater than the Rotterdam Effect the rexiteers complained about.

      Ignore the fake accountancy and look at the bottom line. All we should consider is Scotland’s total goods out versus Scotland’s total goods in and on that score, Scotland (even minus oil) is about break-even, which is a helluva lot better than England (Even including financial ‘services’).

    44. Chick McGregor says:

      Err that second ‘in’ should have been ‘out’ obv.

    45. Chick McGregor says:

      Err 2, there was no second ‘in’ (it’s getting late) the original was fine.

    46. Liz g says:

      Masslass @ 12.27
      Thank you so much for asking.
      Off the top of my head…When the Indy Ref is called,get as many as you can to contact your politicians, media and any groups you can think of to say you support this.
      If anyone has some spare dollars ( and I do mean really can afford to) they could donate to many of the current fundraisers…or organise some fundraising for us Stateside.
      The most important thing you can do,is to prepare as many as you can,after the Yes vote is in,to lobby,and lobby hard for your government to recognise Scotland as an Independent State.
      Be ambitious an aim to have your government be the first to do so

    47. Dr Jim says:

      The EU will give England nothing as will the Irish give England even less
      The Irish have long memories of mass graves of slaughtered countrymen women and children the English laughing called the potato famine which was in fact food theft by the English who stole enough food to feed 18 million English people at the expense of the deaths of over 100,000 Irish people so if Ireland can make England suffer they damn well will and good luck to them

      England’s re writing of history has a way of catching up with them and all their wee tame Neil Olivers can’t hide it with their fake BBC history shows

      As soon as Scotland’s wind shakes our barley and more truth emerges maybe then the folk of England will get a truthful look at what kind of people have been lying to them for hundreds of years and they might get a chance to put their country in order by ridding themselves of the corruption of both of their political allied murdering parties

      The days of pop guns and pipe bombs are almost over and giving way to the world turning on the weakened state of Englands corruption and ending it using the law and a laptop

      England has had this coming and now everybody is hand in hand throttling them bit by bit, even the UN has nothing but condemnation for Englands human rights abuses at home and abroad

    48. Still Positive says:

      Well said Dr Jim @ 1.53

    49. Still Positive says:

      And a welcome to Clive Ponting as a fellow Scot. He’s here that’s enough.

    50. twathater says:

      When you consider the risks that a young Clive Ponting took exposing the lies and duplicitous actions of the Belgrano affair his courage was immeasurable

      Remember this was the ( SPIT ) thatcher era where she was and still is exalted by the rabid tories and brit nats , Ponting literally risked his life to EXPOSE the lies ,it would have been so easy just to have him disappeared or to have him charged with some spurious activity , it highlights to me the utmost integrity of the man and I thank him for choosing Scotland as his home

      When you consider his integrity and honesty in exposing the lies and corruption of the establishment , and compare and contrast it with the senior civil servants who DELIBERATELY ABANDONED all their integrity and honesty in order to subvert and sabotage a democratic vote for independence and were exuberant and joyful that their despicable actions were successful and rewarded

    51. Masslass says:

      Liz g Will do

      We are keeping our eyes on the prize. Will do everything to help. Its my reason to keep on living. I cannot believe we are this close to Independence. I have waited for this my whole life.

    52. Sharny Dubs says:

      As usual I don’t have time to read through all the posts so sorry if I’m just repeating something that has already been said, but anyway IMO it will not hurt to say it again.

      All due respect for Clive and his brave honesty, it may yet cost him dear, but he highlights something I have mentioned before, Westminster does not play by the rules.

      A state of emergency will/may not center around making a human barrier round our parliament, it will be troops on the street, control of water, electricity, food supplies, even lines of communication, phone, wireless, tv and internet.

      Showboat generals talk strategy, real generals talk logistics. Remember Churchill, remember all the atrocities that this Westminster has committed over the not so distant past.

      This is the beast we face.

      Sorry to be a doomsayer, but we really need to focus on the realities. IMHO.

    53. Sharny Dubs says:

      I lived and worked in a west African dictatorship many years ago and we always knew when something was going down as all communications would get blacked out, a few hours or perhaps a day or so, phones, tv etc.

      Scares me when I think of what WM are capable of.

    54. Dr Jim says:

      BBC Scotland go to great lengths this morning denying reports of the corporation ripping off Scotland to the tune of £100 million, and they do it totally unsuccessfully by using phrases like overlapping budgets and time differentials and outside scheduling of programming, and the more phrases they used the more obvious it became they were indeed overlapping their own lies and concealing the facts with blah de blah hogwash and they have been caught with their hands in Scotlands pockets once again subsidising Englands programming with Scottish taxpayers hard earned money

      The SNP have nailed them and proven them guilty of theft

    55. Breeks says:


      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:36 am
      HYUFD at1 2.05 am

      There you go again. Quoting the Daily Mail. Are you too far away to hear the laughter?

      Just as matter of interest lots of Scots exports to England are merely passing through. One of the first things we will do when independent will be to rebuild Scottish ports and start exporting directly from Scottish ports again….

      Aye Dave, and just what a mistake it has been “devolving” Scotland’s European Freight Traffic to the South? Another “trust” compromised and then betrayed.

      Westminster promised Scotland high speed rail links, and a whole mass Euro transportation node to carry steel from Ravenscraig to Europe. It never happened of course. Did we ever believe it would? All these grand promises ran out of steam before they got North of Manchester. The South built themselves a funnel and bottle neck for UK commerce all to benefit the greedy South, and then made the whole UK hostage to that same greedy self interest by flicking the toxic “V” of Brexit to every Nation connected to their freight hub in Europe. Talk about stupefying idiocy…

      Stupidity is not a long enough word to adequately describe the mental absurdity behind the self harming calamity of Brexit, but heed the lesson Scotland, that’s what happens when you’re in an abusive and exploitative relationship with a parasitic black hole called the United Kingdom, and trust them to look after your interests. What great guffaws of laughter they must have at our expense.

      I hope we don’t just extend thanks and our respects to Clive Pontin, but fully absorb what they are saying about immoral and unprincipled regime at large in Westminster. It takes a special kind of forlorn courage for a squaddie to go over the top to near certain death when the whistle blows, but it’s another special kind of courage to take a David and Goliath stand against the nasty UK Establishment, especially when you know the depth of its nastiness. I’ll say it too Mr Pontin, welcome to Scotland, and I too hope you’re very happy here.

      We now have Clive Pontin, Craig Murray, John Jappy,… all “Establishment” insiders disgusted by what they witnessed on the inside. I raise a hearty toast to every one of you. Thank you for having the courage to speak out. May Scotland provide you with the respect and high regard you deserve, and shield you from the vindictive and pernicious tentacles of the UK Establishment. May you always find a peaceful home and solid sanctuary in Scotland.

    56. Ghillie says:

      Thanks again to Phantom Power Films !

      Am looking forward to the next ‘No to YES’ 🙂

    57. galamcennalath says:

      An excellent video. The UK state’s perfidy and violent streak is a problem we will have to face.

      That said, the current Tory government is one of the most incompetent in history. I have always felt Indy will come when London (probably Tories) make a big mistake which really gets right up Scots’ noses. Then a sizeable majority will see self determination as solution. We have the right people in government in WM to seriously cock up.

      This is a good read …

      ” Here our future scholars will have to try to distinguish between three kinds of ignorance: deliberate un-knowing, crass self-delusion and what we can only call pig ignorance “

      https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-historians-will-not-believe-sheer-ignorance-of-brexit-supporters-1.3695347

    58. Petra says:

      Well done to Phantom Power and a brave Mr Ponting for getting this information out there. In saying that most of us on here know full well that Westminster treats the Scots with condescension, how corrupt they are and that they’ll stop at nothing to hold onto Scotland. The contents of the last article on here and the fact that we ‘house’ their nuclear weapons is reason enough for them to take over Scotland as a last resort. We’re now entering the end game, so be prepared. Prepared for ”anything.” Gillian McGregor, now Director of the Scotland Office, isn’t here by chance, imo.

      And yes, a big welcome to Scotland Mr and Mrs Ponting. We’ll be needing people like you to help run an Independent Scotland in the very near future, if you so wish.

      http://www.gov.uk/government/people/gillian-mcgregor

    59. Ghillie says:

      marga @ 12.41 am

      Re a possible Wings get together in Edinburgh while you are here from 7th to 15th December…

      Keep in touch – I’m sure we can whistle up a gathering 🙂

    60. Petra says:

      ‘Scottish BBC viewers send £100m licence fee ‘subsidy’ to London HQ.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17218835.scottish-bbc-viewers-send-100m-subsidy-to-london-hq/

      ……………………………………………………..

      ‘A truly pivotal moment as the complex Brexit process draws towards its denouement.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/13/a-truly-pivotal-moment-as-the-complex-brexit-process-draws-towards-its-denouement/

    61. Socrates MacSporran says:

      When push turns to shove and we really have to fight London for our Independence, I console myself with the knowledge, Westminster will stick rigidly to what I call the Melchett Management Method.

      As the good General said in Blackadder IV: “If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.”

      That is how Whitehall/Westminster thinks, and has always thought. That type of in-bred thinking can be beaten.

    62. Ken500 says:

      Thatcher died old and alone in a Barclay brother’s hotel room. She would have rotted in hell, if there was any justice, for all the lives she ruined, worldwide. The public money she stole did not conpensate her.

      The Tories will be down and out. Gone. Locked up in the crumbling Westminster cesspit of their own making. Guarded day and night. They can’t go out among the public. They are so scared of them. Locked up in their own prison while they fleece the public purse of £Billions and sanction and starve others.

      The Tory/Unionists coarse nasty bastards and their associates. Running around in the blacked out cars. They should be black affronted. Lying bastards. They will be gone soon, Back to oblivion for another thirty years if their is any justice. They even change the Scottish electoral system, non mandated to try and ruin the Scottish economy. To try and take back control Not likely the voters vote against it. Corbyn and his associates are a failure. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.

      Labour voting for or abstaining every Tory policies. They obviously do not want the poisoned chalice. The Tories could have been voted down September 2017 evel vote. How they change their tune when they are deselected. Their cosy number threatened. What do Labour stand for? Absolutely nothing. A different policy come along every minute. Contradicts the last one. A bunch of charlotans. The Tories little helpers. Illegally telling voters to vote Tory. Totally awful.

      There are plenty of Tory unionists in the borders.

      MI5 are trying to slander Alex Salmond. They will not get away with it, The Tory/unionists behind it will soon be gone. Clark the ‘Salmond slayer’. Aye right? The incompetent useless Tories will soon be away. Trying to ruin the NE economy, They will not muck up the economy for much longer. The farce is playing out. They are going to be voted down and out.

      Brexit a criminal act of gross stupidity and self harm. To allow the Tory/unionists to fleece the public purse. An act of total vandalism and destruction. Their pathetic wailing being drowned out by the public roar. The tsunami coming back to bite. The public regaining and retaining the moral ground.

      Scotland will vote for Independence, Ireland will vote to be reunited, The DUP will fail. The DUP will fall. How low can they go.

      Gordon Brown the warmongering liar should be put in jail for the harm he has done the world. The death and destruction he has caused worldwide. A complete and utter charlotan and associate sycophants. A complete and utter imbecile liar. They denied Scotland powers. Now trying to muscle in on the Act. Unelected and deselected. Davidson is a shameless liar, Two peas from the same pod of malicious activity. Paid from London HQ’s to try and destroy the Scottish economy. They have no shame. Liars always get found out.

      Blair and Brown locked in their own made prison. Guarded 24/7 from the public. They are despised worldwide. A mutual distrust between them and the public whom they despise.

      Westminster unionists charlotan, criminals and their associates fleecing the public purse at every opportunity. Killing maiming and death. They are beyond redemption. Trying to keep their criminality secret under the Official Secrets Act, They always get found out,

      Clive Ponting and others are witness to it. Thank goodness for them and many others who speak out.

      Iraq, Lockerbie, Dunblane kept secret for 100 years. Or until Scotland is Independent soon. Then the public will find out.

      Vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence.

    63. Robert Louis says:

      This new film, is very, very powerful stuff. I found it very interesting how he talked about the 1970’s and the oil. England gads to have it, and they used the wholly undemocratic (where Scottish constituencies make up only 9% of the vote) westminster to do so. Then followed the decades of lying by both Tory AND LABOUR government that Scottish oil was worthless and constantly just about to ‘run out’. Indeed the former Labour chancellor in an interview to holyrood magazine

      QUOTE From interview article “He says that the value of oil to the UK is a prime motivation behind Westminster’s opposition to independence now and in the 1970s.
      “I think we did underplay the value of the oil to the country because of the threat of nationalism..”.

      Source https://www.holyrood.com/articles/editors-note/still-raising-eyebrows

      Scotland needs to end the union with England. It is just a treaty, no more, no less. It is not magic.

      Westminster treats Scotland as a colony, and with each passing day it gets worse.

    64. manandboy says:

      It may be NI that brings an end to the Union, not Scotland.

      According to RTE/BBC Opinion poll , 62% of people in Northern Ireland think that a United Ireland has become more likely as a result of Brexit debate and 11% think it has become less likely. Hard to see how that counts as a strategic Unionist success….(Tweet by Duncan Morrow)

    65. Nana says:

      https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/more-14500-children-given-free-meals-during-school-holidays-help-combat-holiday-hunger

      https://www.stirlingsnp.com/callous-tory-benefit-cap-hurts-111-households-in-stirling-area/

      Here’s Gordon Brown publicly backing Nicola Sturgeon on the issue of the Power Grab. He goes further by saying Holyrood should be allowed to sign deals with the EU after Brexit.
      Reporting Scotland tonight employed a news blackout of Gordon Brown’s ‘Power Grab’ comments. The programme has consistently covered the former PM’s ‘interventions’ since pre-2014, but now he’s not newsworthy?
      https://twitter.com/IndyrefTWO/status/1062096393052020740

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/wind-turbines-generating-record-levels-of-power/

    66. mr thms says:

      I inadvertently posted my reply on the previous thread.

      HYFUD @ 12:01 am

      Funny how Scottish exports always exclude oil and gas.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-26/make-room-opec-the-u-k-is-set-to-become-net-crude-oil-exporter

      “Make Room OPEC: U.K. Is Set to Become Net Crude Oil Exporter”

    67. Petra says:

      ‘Alleged Edinburgh Airport incidents probed in Salmond investigation.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17218943.alleged-edinburgh-airport-incidents-probed-in-salmond-investigation/

      ………………………………………………………………

      ‘WW1 victory came at a heavy cost to Scotland – in more ways than one.’

      …”It may not sound like so many compared to the two million Germans who were killed, or the 1.8m Russians or 1.4m French. But Scotland was a small country which could ill afford such a scale of loss, and in fact its rate of casualties exceeded that of any other Allied nation. Although it lay far from the theatres of conflict, its death toll was proportionately higher than the losses of Serbia and Turkey, countries which had been conquered and over-run.”..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17218645.ww1-victory-came-at-a-heavy-cost-to-scotland-in-more-ways-than-one/

      ……………………………………………..

      ‘Reporting Scotland cuts cost by using cheap but unreliable Labour feed.’

      …”Convener of the Holyrood Health & Sport Committee, Lewis Macdonald, has told everybody he can that there aren’t enough policies aimed at disease prevention. Lewis is the husband of one of the Aberdeen councillors who were suspended for going into coalition with the Tories, despite their social and economic policies being at times near-identical to, if not directly copied from, those of the SNP.

      Reporting Scotland will be gratefully using his comments eight times today as part of its wider ‘Undermine with Fake News’ operation, planned to conclude just before the next Independence referendum.”..

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/12/reporting-scotland-cuts-cost-by-using-cheap-but-unreliable-labour-feed/

    68. Nana says:

      https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/11/12/the-censoring-of-that-iceland-ad-for-being-too-political-has-backfired-spectacularly/

      The British Airways owner, IAG, has been seeking Spanish government support to continue its operations in the case of a disorderly Brexit.
      http://archive.is/tTF93

      In response to the Buzzfeed article linked to in the tweet below, Jessica Simor QC says
      If they go for no deal, they foreseeably (and knowingly) put the lives of certain individuals who are reliant on swift imports of medicines at risk, in breach of the right to life
      https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1062060913350664192

      There is no wriggle room left with the DUP and hard Brexiters over a potential deal
      http://archive.is/Xv092

    69. Robert Louis says:

      The SNP keep telling the indy folk that they should prepare for indyref etc.. Given what Clive Ponting and many others have pointed out regarding the utter mendacity of Westminster governments, and the massive expansion of the Westminster run Scotland office, might I suggest our very own Scottish Government start preparing for EVERY eventuality too. And I do mean EVERY eventuality.

      The current Westminster English government has zero respect for Scotland and Scottish people, but importantly, it has zero respect for democracy.

      Will we really be forced to go down this kind of road by Westminster??

      Good luck to them, if they do. History suggests they will fail – as they failed in all other colonies. For example, the USA…

      http://www.ushistory.org/people/minutemen.htm

    70. Les Wilson says:

      At 8am on EBCs Gary Robertson muttered something about the Supreme Court, it was that quick I did not catch it. Whatever it was there was no discussion or mention of it, so can anyone let me know what was said?

    71. HYUFD says:

      ManandBoy Northern Ireland has a Unionist First Minister in Arlene Foster unlike Sturgeon who is a Nationalist. Plus most Unionists in Northern Ireland are of Scottish origin

    72. Robert Louis says:

      Les Wilson at 0823,

      Look, the EBC have told you, nothing of importance was said. All that happened was ‘mumbles, mumbles, supreme court, mumble mumble. Nothing for us uppity jocks to concern ourselves about.

      In reality likely regarding the court case to determine whether article 50 can be reversed. Westminster insists it cannot, but the court case was referred by the highest court in Scots law (the court of session in Edinburgh) to the European courts of Justice. Westminster sought to appeal that decision and have the case considered in their own tame pretendy ‘supreme‘ court’ in London, but the Scottish law lords refused them permission. Now, Westminster is trying to somehow change that via nefarious and undemocratic means, essentially trying to undermine the Scots law lords and the court of session in Edinburgh.

      What a bunch of ******* they are in Westminster. If the rules don’t work, change the rules. Zero respect for democracy, zero respect for Scotland and Scots law.

    73. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim The same UN which said New Caledonia was an unlawful French colony which must become independent which the New Caledonians ignored a few weeks ago when 56% of them voted to remain a French overseas territory? Both the UK and France are permanent members of the U.N. Security Council as is China which also controls Tibet

    74. HYUFD says:

      Chick McGregor England also has a trade surplus with the USA not just Scotland

    75. Bob Mack says:

      Following a night of reflection, the clues we have can be put together to form a picture. We know the Scottish Office has expanded considerably, and that in the event of No Deal the army has been chosen in helping maintain civil disorder.

      We have had on this very forum, posters indicating the possibility of Holyrood being disbanded, perhaps permanently.
      Mrs May herself has confirmed a period of seven years where Westminster will control all the major levers of State, reducing Hollywood to a Parish Council rather than a government.

      Time is against us now, because if we don’t move soon then we are going to be forcibly deprived of a further opportunity,perhaps permanently.

      It appears Westminster have looked at Catalonia and found a solution to their dilemma, because who is backing the Catalans just now ?

      No doubt ,sites like this will be outlawed to deprive us of the ability to communicate and organise. Even now there is talk in Westminster about controlling Social Media of all descriptions.

      I may sound downbeat, but everything we know points to these events. To deny that is foolish indeed. To do nothing when you are being stripped of all your rights is criminal.

      The SNP must start sowing the seed from which grows freedom. It is no longer sufficient to play a waiting game and hope events turn in your favour, because the opposition are making all the moves already behind the scenes. Act now, before its too late to act at all.

    76. Robert Louis says:

      manandboy at 0807am,

      I think you are right. With the coming cluster*** called brexit, more and more in N.Ireland will start to realise they can either be attached to a basket case England, or join with their own neighbours, remain within the EU and prosper as a nation.

      People like the DUP are yesterday’s people. Stuck in a religious bigotry that means little to the young folk of N.Ireland. The Arlene Fosters of this world will soon be confide to the political history books. The DUP want to leave the EU because they firmly believe it is the anti-christ. Seriously.

    77. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Louis says:
      Thanks for reply Robert, I was suspicious that something more was being hidden, again!

      BBC will be bannned in Scotland before long!
      However, they( Westminster)have their plans for Scotland and putting a spoke in their wheel is becoming harder, we do need Indy very very soon.

    78. Robert Louis says:

      Hey, BBC

      POP quiz: Who is the Westminster leader of the third largest party in the UK?

      A. Nicola Sturgeon

      B. Alex Salmond

      C. Ian Blackford

      D. Joanna Cherry

      We’ll not hold our breath.

      N.B. Disambiguation (to help the BBC) For the avoidance of doubt, the third largest party in the UK is the SNP.

    79. Sinky says:

      @ Les Wilson says at 8:23 am

      Don’t know what Gary Robertson said about Supreme Court but noted further attempts to Anglicise the Scottish Legal System with ill informed folk wanted to scrap Corroboration and Not Provan verdicts.

      We need stand up for Scots Law as a) Corroboration protects anyone wrongly accused and prevents numerous vexatious cases (although I do appreciate that in rape cases getting secondary evidence can be difficult).

      b) However our 8-7 majority Jury system gives more chances of getting a conviction than in England where you need a 10 -2 majority.

      c) It is a Not Guilty verdict that should be scrapped and was an English import. In a trial the Jury is only asked based on the evidence presented whether the case against the accused is Provan or Not Provan. It has no way of knowing whether the person is Innocent or Guilty.

    80. Lenny Hartley says:

      yesindyref2 The Belgrano was in International waters over 200 miles from the Falklands it could have been doing somersaults never mind zig zagging if it wanted. sinking it and with loss of several hundred crew was an illegal act and should end up n the Hague. perhaps when the UK loses its seat on the security council justice will prevail.

    81. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Louis, i read recently that Ian Paisley senior actually believed that the EU had a secret seat numbered 666 for the Pope to use when he took over the EU. These nutters now have more say on Brexit than the so called equal partner called Scotland. WTF

    82. manandboy says:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46188790

      Addressing the Lord Mayor’s Banquet on Monday evening, the prime minister said the talks were “immensely difficult”…

      What Theresa May meant was that the talks were immensely difficult for the Tory Party and the UDA/DUP.

      For the many, the solution to Brexit couldn’t be easier.

    83. Nana says:

      Buried in the anti-Salmond smearfest is another significant story. Mundell has refused to push for more ‘Tay Deal’ cash from the Tory Govt to help the Michelin plant in Dundee
      https://twitter.com/IndyrefTWO/status/1062250100011995136

      https://theferret.scot/brexit-impact-infectious-diseases/

      https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews//ireland/new-zealand-opens-first-irish-embassy-in-preparation-for-brexit-884922.html

      https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-digital-government-push-loses-steam-as-macron-hosts-global-crowd/

      That’s all for now

      I have shared the Phantom Power video with contacts including my local SNP councillor. I suggest every Winger does the same.

    84. Another Union Dividend says:

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17218835.scottish-bbc-viewers-send-100m-subsidy-to-london-hq/

      The analysis, published by the Scottish Parliament’s Information Centre (Spice), found the BBC raised just under £324m in 2017/18 from licence fee payers in Scotland, but spent £223m – 69% – in Scotland with the remaining £101m directed to headquarters. The percentage was down from 72% during 2016/17.

      In comparison, Wales and Northern Ireland saw 92% and 89% respectively of their licence fee revenue spent directly in those nations during 2017/18.

      Meanwhile Daily Record reveals that new BBC / Premier Sports six year TV deal for Scottish Cup is worth up to £20m. That is £3.3m a year max between the two broadcasters.

      BBC pays £16m a year to cover English FA cup games and £68m a year for Match of the Day highlights. Sky pays £120m a year for English Championship (Old Second division) coverage but only oferring £30 for whole of Scottish League coverage.

    85. Breeks says:

      Wouldn’t the best possible news for Michelin workers in Dundee, and indeed Michelin the company, be a progressive, concrete affirmation that the Scottish Government’s primary objective in the coming 5 months is to PREVENT Brexit from actually happening to Scotland?

      It would lift my spirits, nevermind the Dundee workforce…

    86. Yerkitbreeks says:

      I missed his talk so thanks to Andrew Armstrong for getting it onto your blog

    87. Ken500 says:

      Teresa May is an evel misfit without shame or responsibility. She is only concerned about herself. Selfish vain and unscrupulous. Her world view is extorted by her own conceit. This catastrophe will continue until she and the Tory/unionists are gone, soon. An absolute disgrace. The poorer and vulnerable are paying for Tory/unionists illegal actions.

      Oxbridge funded 2000 to 1 by public money. No diversity or equality. Illegal attitudes. The wealthy buy an education illegally subsidised by public money. In order to then ruin the world economy.

      It is unbelievable what they have done. Westminster psycho bastards of every unionists hue. .

    88. jfngw says:

      I suspect the BBC £100m is an underestimate, if you include programmes that are badged BBC Scotland but obviously have little connection with Scotland. It is an accounting exercise to allocate spending to Scotland, Wales and NI but still have most of the expertise (people) still in the South East.

      Perfect example was QT, made by Mentorn, then decided it would be badged as BBC Scotland. Nothing changed in the production but Mentorn rented some office space in Scotland and then became Mentorn Scotland for QT production.

      Other ones are daytime programmes, why is a show centred around a Manchester recycling centre a BBC Scotland production. It never sets foot in Scotland to my knowledge.

      I have seen shows badged as BBC Scotland were the only function provided by anyone in Scotland was the financing, nobody else seemed to know anything about the production. Of course if it had won any awards the BBC Scotland controller would have stepped proudly forward for some limelight, it bombed.

    89. manandboy says:

      As the collective mind of large numbers of the electorate shifts, which has happened in the UK with Brexit, as well as in the US with the 2016 election of Donald Trump, it follows that a shift in the Constitutional arrangements of their respective administrations will also take place.

      In the UK, this means that the political establishment at Westminster is under serious threat. It is no longer fit for purpose. This is why the entire British Establishment is so afraid of the consequences of Brexit. They fear the loss of their centuries old grip on power and wealth, and the privileged life that goes with it, aka, the Gravy Train.

      It is worth noting that the US mid-term elections showed that voter sentiment had not moved since November 2016. The voter shift is therefore showing no signs of returning to where it was before the EU referendum in June 2016. The Tories were hoping for a reversal.

      The significance of this voter shift is that it means that large numbers of voters have broken free of the government’s mind controlling propaganda, whereby it is the government which decides how the masses will think, and therefore how they will vote. The UK Government has, in large measure, lost this control. And it is scaring the shit out of them.

    90. Fred says:

      Excellent Bella article on the stampede of companies from London to Paris & Frankfort!

    91. Fred says:

      Or even Frankfurt! 🙂

    92. Terence callachan says:

      To HY FUD…
      You live the right Royal British fairy tale in every comment you make, grow up ,if you can’t have sensible discussion don’t bother .
      You try so desperately to convince that Scotland exports so much to England and is reliant on England when you know full well that England has so little influence and power without Scotlands oil and gas, one thing you did get right is that nearly all of Scotlands exports go through England but of course most of that is going overseas it’s not being exported to England it’s just passing through , why does that happen ? it happens because England has deprived Scotland of the means to control exports and airports but not for much longer, Scottish independence will see that end, Scotlands airports will expand and flourish and our exports will leave directly from Scotland ,the down side for you is that you will no longer be able to include Scottish produce in Englands export figures, the shrinking English economy will be a real worry for you, best you divert your attention to doing something about that ,you will have more success doing that than trying to convince Scotland that it is too wee too poor too stupid, that argument has been lost by you already.

    93. Ghillie says:

      Bob Mack, folk here know some of each other.

      That’s a start.

      We meet. We talk. We chat some more.

      The old fashioned way before the mavels of the internetty thing.

      Ain’t going to keep this movement silent.

      That ship sailed a long time ago.

      Independence is unstoppable 🙂

    94. Robert Alexander Harrison says:

      he said it clearly why I hated being raised in England because being a kid with a Scottish accent till my teenage years I was looked down upon and treated like garbage by the English in even remembered I told my late father I wanted out of England as I hated it there but no my opinion didn’t mean a thing go him so I had to suffer the xenophobic attitudeswhen he passed away i stayed because no way was I leaving my mother alone in that English town full of xenophobic gits hence why I never really got back here till summer of 2015 and best move I’ve done my only regret is it took so long to do as I missed voting yes in indyref1 which is what I would of done in 2014.

    95. robertknight says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      “666”???

      Demented Ulster Puritans indeed!

    96. Bob Mack says:

      @Gillie,

      Tell that to Catalonia.

    97. Les Wilson says:

      Terence callachan says:

      Terence, the other thing they never mention, and surprisingly hardly ever talked about by our own politicians. Is that England exports much much more to Scotland than Scotland does to them.

      I have often spoke of this on Wings, but again, hardly a reply to that fact.When you look at the High or main shopping streets across Scotland how many “Scottish” owned shops do you see? gie few right.
      If you buy something online it is in the main English companies we interact and buy from.
      Huge amounts of English lorries come up our motorways 24/7, some Scottish lorries do that to, going south but not nearly as many.

      They sell us everything you can imagine. No wonder May always goes on about preserving our ” single market”, it is another huge con as they want to preserve it, for what they gain from it, that is the real reason.
      Then of course there is “services” that they sell us, eg what insurance company do you insure all your things with?, hardly likely to be Scottish.

      Talk of a hard border from them is a scare tactic, they could never afford to carry it out, of course they may do something symbolic but little that would be restrictive.

      Trade with Scotland is soo important to them, but they portray it the other way around,as they always do.

      High time all of our representatives started shouting very loudly about that, and laugh at them when they try to con as as the do on almost every subject. But the single uk market is a lulu!
      I wish people would just wake up to this.

    98. Ken500 says:

      The endgame. The endgame is coming for Teresa May and her associates, Milking the public purse and fleecing the public. What a chancer. They broke the Bank of England.

    99. Ken500 says:

      Scotland exports a lot of food products. People have to eat. A staple diet. Brexit will put up the price of food. Cause a riot. Basic foodstuff, fuel and enegy prices will go up especially for the poorer who can’t afford it.

      Scotland is surplus in food and energy so will not be affected so badly but it will affect other exports, Scotland exports and imports are more equal. So Scotland dies not have such a problem with balance of payment deficit.

      Westminster takes from Scotland – £Billions. Over which Scotland has no say. No powers, The Barnett Formula.distortion. Scotland subsidies London S/E. restriction growth in Scotland. Congestion in London. S/E ruining the economy.

      The EU invests in Scotland . The EU gives to Scotland in grants and investment. The EU costs Scotland nothing. Westminster economic decisions cost Scotland £Billions. The EU gives. Westminster takes Illegally.

      Westminster illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud costs Scotland £Billions,

    100. James Barr Gardner says:

      Terence callachan says:
      13 November, 2018 at 10:24 am

      Scottish Produce exported through English Ports also supports many thousands of English jobs in shipping, transport, packaging, taxation, security, finance, advertising and marketing.

      When these jobs go north after Scottish Independence, the English economy will plummet and Westminster knows it for a fact, the jig is up !

    101. Cubby says:

      The resident British Nationalist who is a fanatical English Tory does not know his arse from his elbow.

      His posts often contradict his previous posts. One of the biggest diddies that have ever pitched up on Wings. But not as big a diddy as Rockshit. Our resident Britnat is still to find an article in the Daily Mail forecasting events 240 years in the future. So Rockshit must still be the biggest diddy on Wings.

      Our resident Britnat is not here to learn or debate or to convince but just to disrupt. What a total plonker. You could just see him writing a paper in school on something and quoting the Daily Mail as his source for his reliable facts to justify his conclusions.

    102. manandboy says:

      It is odds-on that Theresa May will no longer be The UK Prime Minister after the Brexit delivery date of March 29, 2019.

      If truth be told, Theresa May has really only held the Office of PM, but Prime Minister, in meaningful words and competent deeds?

      She NEVER answers even a simple question honestly, but always evades the question put to her by making a pre-written statement learned by rote.

      So, no, TM is only a ‘delivery driver’ prime minister, whose only job is to deliver Brexit by the due date. That is what her Line Manager from the City has instructed her to do after she was cleverly ‘appointed’ PM after the other ‘candidates’ dropped out one by one, until only Theresa was left. No voting took place. Theresa May was NOT elected Prime Minister. She was SELECTED – to deliver Brexit. On the 29th of March, her contract will be up, and she will move on.

      British politics is currently a huge scam. It’s a fraud. Theresa May is a joke being played on the British public by the Establishment. Brexit is a farce.

      As Lord Sugar said recently in the House of Lords, some of these people should be in jail for fraud.

    103. Bob Mack says:

      Just ror information.

      Joanne Cherry is asking Lucy Frazer the Tory Justice Minister why the Supreme Court has been asked to intervene in the article 50 case, as Scots Law states that when a unanimous verdict is given by the Scottish Law Lords,there is no facility to overturn that decision.
      Miss Frazer reply. “We are well aware of Scots Law ,but we look forward to the decision of the Supreme Court”

      Translated. “Tough,we have our our legal system”.

      Looks like our laws and the Treaty of Union being ignored yet again.

    104. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marc Rich says: 12 November, 2018 at 9:57 pm:

      ” … Our best chance at success is showing Scots the facts around how much wealth we produce and how badly Whitehall has stewarded our wealth over the last 30/50/100 years.”

      You can make that figure precisely 312 years come 1 May 2019, Marc – that’s from the day the independent sovereign Kingdom of Scotland became a, (cough!), “equally sovereign partner, “ in the bipartite United Kingdom of Great Britain – 1 May 1707.

      The only other partner in that United Kingdom was, and still is, The Kingdom of England with which, three country, kingdom we are supposedly equally sovereign partners.

      If you read, “The Treaty Of Union”, you will find that Scotland already has her own currency, Marc. That is also stated right there in that same Treaty of Union.

      Scotland’s currency was/is the Pound Sterling which Scotland was using at least as far back as the Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton of 1328:-

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Edinburgh%E2%80%93Northampton

      ” … The SNP need to nail the currency issue, we need an independent currency, and make a better run at that GERS fiction.”

      The SNP has long ago, and many time, “Nailed”, both of those matters, Marc, but if you are expecting to read all about it in the Scottish dead tree press or the Westminster owned or controlled broadcasting mediums then you may expect rather a long term wait.

      The facts are that the Treaty of Union states that Scottish Banks have the legal right to print their own distinctive bank notes.

      If you don’t believe that then just attempt to proffer a Scottish Bank Note in a London retail outlet, or even try to exchange it for the English Pound Sterling at one of those currency exchange places at Heathrow. There is absolutely no need to go to the expense of creating a new currency when we already have one.

      BTW: The SNP have stated Scotland will retain the Pound Sterling after independence. However there is no need to tie the Pound Sterling, Scots to the Pound Sterling, English. In any case the reality of the matter is that, BRUKExit or not, the post independence Pound Sterling English will tank while the Pound Sterling Scots will, like the Norwegian krone, become embarrassingly strong.

      I don’t know if you are aware that this was what put the fear of God into Westminster when they read the McCrone Report. The Norwegians have to struggle to prevent their Krone from getting too strong and they have to artificially invest it in other countries in order to stop their economy from overheating.

      If you click on this link:-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-limitations-of-gers/

      it will take you to a page on the Wings site that deals with GERS.

      There are a set of links at the top of every Wings page and that link is from one of those pages. You might like to go and have a wee search through those pages.

      ” … We have work to do, but we will get there.
      Its the small daily conversations with people, the small things done daily, millions of small things done a lot add up in to huge results.”

      Yes Marc, that is the way to go. The SNP, both as a political party and as the Scottish Government really do tell all the facts in both Holyrood and Westminster but unless you watch both Westminster live on-line:-

      https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/968c0454-8a67-451e-8303-3715de963555

      or Holyrood live:-

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/

      Or the SNP’s website, then you are not going to know just how hard the SNP works at telling it how it is. They can send out as many Press Releases as they like but they cannot make the SMSM, MSM or the broadcasters propagate them.

      Just look at the choices that the BBC make when choosing the panel and the audiences for their radio and TV political programmes.

      So that is the job of the YES Movement, AUOB and the several on-line bloggers. The whole point is that their hard work, and it certainly is very hard work, is winning the battle and, with that hard work continuing, the war will be won.

      It may be slow but the signs are that there is a slow but steady movement towards independence.

    105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at 8.33

      “Plus most Unionists in Northern Ireland are of Scottish origin”

      You don’t say!
      As if we all don’t know that.
      Most unionists in Scotland are of Scottish origin too (as are most nationalists in Scotland though we have among us plenty of good English Scottish nationalists as well – the ones who can see a better country on the horizon).

      Just as a matter of interest 25% of “England’s exports” (as you describe them) are Scottish.

      It is quite refreshing to read your soft excreta. You are the epitome of the uninformed English voter who understands absolutely nothing about Scotland.

      The fact that you actually have the dense idiocy to quote the Daily Mail to us tells us all we need to know. All informed and knowledgeable Scots are fully aware that the Mail is a unionist Tory rag aimed at those in Scotland of a certain age who have difficulty coming to terms with the fact that they have been swallowing mailshite for half a century or more and such has removed their critical faculties.

      For example you probably believe (as you have been told) that Ruth Davidson is hugely popular in Scotland.
      In fact despite continuous generous and uncritical promotion for about five years with the Tories at about 24% in Scottish polls she hasn’t even reached the lowest point of Mrs Thatcher’s popularity in Scotland.

      We can but laugh.

    106. Nana says:

      Joanna Cherry – Act of Union Question to Lucy Frazer 13/11/18

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJ1p6WKfOk&feature=youtu.be

    107. Thepnr says:

      @Nana

      Good catch on the Joanna Cherry video, another excellent question from her.

    108. HYUFD says:

      Lenny Hartley Permanent UN Security Council members have a permanent veto and cannot be removed from it though India, Japan and Germany or the EU may be added as permanent members

    109. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan Even without Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland England would be the 7th largest economy in the world. Scotland would be 46th

    110. HYUFD says:

      Les Wilson Percentage wise more Scottish exports go to England than English exports to Scotland

    111. galamcennalath says:

      @Nana

      Offft!

      Joanna is superb. The Tory is totally out of her depth, her knowledge is a disgrace. Those weren’t answers, that was just noise.

      This could be a big test of just how political the London Supreme Court is. If they stick to the law then they should tell the Tory Gov to get lost. If they interfere, then they are simply an instrument of misrule.

    112. Andy-B says:

      May use Brexit as an excuse to dissolve the Scottish parliament. That would set our cause back decades.

    113. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Nana

      That Joanna Cherry video, the Minister was clearly floundering and out of her depth. The Tories really are in deep doo-dah now.

      I fear they will come up with a scheme to keep us as their last colony, a scheme so cunning, not even Baldrick could have thought of it.

    114. Nana says:

      Michael Russell on the way to London

      Now on my way to London and will re-iterate @ScotGov view that we need to see and comment on any draft or partial agreement text…Brexit deal details ‘must be shared’ – BBC News

      article here

      http://archive.is/hN1dr

    115. HYUFD says:

      Dave McEwan Hill The great Ruth Davidson has taken the Scottish Tories from just 1 MP in Scotland to 13 and overtaken Scottish Labour as the main opposition in Holyrood to the SNP and she has not finished yet!

    116. Breeks says:

      Very glad Joanna Cherry is on our side. I’d call that a skewering…

    117. Nana says:

      For new readers who are not aware what Lucy Frazer had to say about Scots

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjVJI0hJQ8o

    118. galamcennalath says:

      @HYUFD

      Why don’t you say something which we might actually be interested in, like your opinion on …

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJ1p6WKfOk&feature=youtu.be

    119. Clydebuilt says:

      O / T. Has McLeish’s been tasked with ensuring Scotland don’t qualify out of this very easy group.
      Michael Stewart said few weeks back on Radio Shortbread that he’d heard that Leigh Griffiths was given a heavy bollocking by the manager.

      The media piled pressure on Stuart Regan to get rid of Strachan, and worked at turning the fans against the manager.

      They drove Strachan out after achieving the best run a Scottish team’s achieved in 20 years, and replaced by a manager who can’t get many of the top players to turn up.

      Success of the National team works wonders for a countries moral! A requirement for a nation considering it’s constitutional future.

    120. Clydebuilt says:

      Should have been McLeish not McLeish’s

    121. Les Wilson says:

      HYUFD says:

      Try monetary value Fud, not percentages which will always be in Englands favour ie population. They sell everything to Scotland and that is what they want to preserve.

      On the same basis, Scotland to England, not nearly the same.
      They benefit hugely in from Scotland and on every level.
      English subermarkets alone without everything else.

      So open your eyes, oops you won’t do that!

    122. Breeks says:

      Not engaging with the Troll’s Unionist Diarrhoea, which sadly for him seems to be an incurable affliction, but when the BritNats ranked Scotland’s economy slumping to 46th in the world, below Portugal as I recall, that was partly attributed amongst various dubious issues with whisky and where food was processed as opposed to coming from, ..to Scotland’s GDP when with only 8% of the UK population an Independent Scotland could only lay claim to 8% of “UK” oil.

      It’s just the usual BritNat Horshit distorting the truth, which you should typically address with a stout shovel (or hose) before someone stands in it.

    123. Breeks says:


      Nana says:
      13 November, 2018 at 1:07 pm
      For new readers who are not aware what Lucy Frazer had to say about Scots…

      I bet the four assaulted quarters of our Sir Simon Fraser’s tortured body must be spinning in their 14th Century graves just to share the very name with their disgusting gobshite ignoramus, Lucy Frazer.

    124. Breeks says:

      OT… Don’t you think there is a striking resemblance between Clive Pointing and actor Michael Culver?

    125. Nana says:

      @Pnr, Breeks, Socrates, Gala

      Apologies for not replying properly, rushing off to an appointment whilst keeping an eye out for the latest news.

      Indeed, thank goodness Joanna is on our side.

      A few links until later

      No-deal Brexit would lead UK to recession “within three or four months”, #Allianz chief economic adviser @elerianm tells @Sarah_Montague
      video
      https://twitter.com/BBCHARDtalk/status/1062288838507270144

      https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-playbook-11-eu-countries-that-will-shape-deal/

      https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2018/11/13/507321.htm

    126. Xaracen says:

      HYUFD, a question for you:

      What is it about oil-rich, energy-rich Scotland that makes Westminster so keen to keep it in the £2trn-debt-ridden UK, in spite of the ongoing need to have English taxpayers selflessly “subsidise” all those Scots junkies?

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 12 November, 2018 at 10:55 pm:

      ” … Nemo me impune lacessit, as it says above the entrance to Edinburgh castle.”

      Unfortunately most Scots now would translate that Latin into the English as you describe. However, it translates into lowland Scots as, “Wha Daur Meddle Ei’ Me.”

      Here is a Border Ballad with that title:-

      “Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?
      Ma castle is aye ma ain,
      An’ herried it never shall be,
      For I maun fa’ ere it’s taen,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wi’ ma kit i’ the rib o’ ma naig,
      Ma sword hingin’ doon by ma knee,
      For man I am never afraid,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Fierce Bothwell I vanquished clean,
      Gar’d troopers an’ fitmen flee;
      By my faith I dumfoondert the Queen,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Alang by the dead water stank,
      Jock Fenwick I met on the lea,
      But his saddle was toom in a clank,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Whar Keelder meets wi’ the Tyne,
      Masel an’ ma kinsmen three,
      We tackled the Percies nine –
      They’ll never mair meddle wi’ me.
      Sir Harry wi’ nimble brand,
      He pricket ma cap ajee,
      But I cloured his heid on the strand,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      The Cumberland reivers ken
      The straik ma airm can gie,
      An’ warily pass the glen,
      For wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      I chased the loons doon to Carlisle,
      Jook’t the raip on the Hair-i-bee,
      Ma naig nickert an’ cockit his tail,
      But wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Ma kinsmen are true, an’ brawlie,
      At glint o’ an enemie,
      Round Park’s auld Turrets they rally,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Then heigh for the tug an’ the tussle,
      Tho’ the cost should be Jethart tree;
      Let the Queen an’ her troopers gae whustle
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Wha daur meddle wi’ me?
      Oh, ma name it’s wee Jock Elliot,
      An’ wha daur meddle wi’ me?”

      Meaning of Scots lowland, (Borders), words:-

      herried=plundered, robbed
      maun fa’ ere it’s taen=must fall before it’s taken
      naig=nag, horse
      Gar’d=made
      dumfoondert=amazed, perplexed
      toom=empty
      clank=severe blow
      Percies=an English aristocratic family
      ajee=crooked, awry
      cloured=struck, battered
      reivers=border bandits
      ken=know
      loons=rascals
      Jook’t=duck, evade a blow
      Hair-i-bee=place of execution at Carlisle
      Ma naig nickert=my horse whinnied
      brawlie=in good health
      Jethart tree=a jury that tries a case after inflicting punishment

    128. Schrodingers cat says:

      England produces and export goods to Scotland. But apart from cornish pasties. Yarmouth bloaters and jellied eels..nothing unique which isn’t made elsewhere. Thatcher closed down Scotlands manufacturing Base and moved all of the canning and processing factories down south. Once Scotland leaves the UK. Tescos etc will simply import. Eg coke. Hienze beans and cars from other countries in the sm/cu. The Scots won’t even notice the change in the supermarkets but England will lose almost all of its exports to Scotland.

      However.82% of Scotlands exports to everywhere including the ruk are made up of. Oil. Fish. Gas. Seed potatoes. Electricity. Stud beef. Petrol. Whisky
      . If England doesn’t buy these items.others will

    129. Dr Jim says:

      The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactcs in order to politically control countries

      But not the BBC, they don’t do that they say

    130. K1 says:

      ‘Ponting is just another Assange but in a kilt.’

      Really?

      And this from a snide in a cuntsuit.

    131. Breeks says:


      Dr Jim says:
      13 November, 2018 at 2:14 pm
      The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactcs in order to politically control countries…

      Oh excellent! It’s been decades since the BBC wrote a good comedy script.

    132. wull2 says:

      From the experts.
      The BBC is to publish documents they say proving foreign governments use *fake news* in divide and rule tactics in order to politically control countries…

    133. Col says:

      Becoming clearer by the day that Scotland must follow the large number of companies fleeing the UK to secure a more prosperous future. The UK’s influence is fast diminishing, strong and stable it is not. People are looking on in wonder at the stupidity of the government in Westminster. Perhaps we should be asking more Scots where they see Scotland as part of the UK in say 5 or 10 years. Might just focus their minds, especially after 10 years of pointless austerity already. How long must Scotland suffer such unbelievable mismanagement before the penny drops?

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 12 November, 2018 at 11:17 pm:

      ” … No Deal while that would be bad for England (and most polls show English voters want a Deal with the EU) it would also hit Scotland as England is Scotland’s largest export destination,”

      Typical ignorant misinformation from a typical English/British Nationalist.

      Much of that BIG Export to England is destined to be further re-exported onwards from England to the Rest of the World and typically claimed by Westminster as English Exports.

      For example Scotland produces over 70% of the United
      Kingdom’s Gin and much of that is exported either via the Chunnel or from other English ports or airports and is thus classed as English Exports.

      Scotland produces 100% of Scotch Whisky and almost all of it is exported via England and claimed as English exports as it goes onward from English ports and air ports. Sea Food also follows that pattern as does the main bulk of soft fruit.

      Oil & Gas is between 95% & 98% from Scottish waters and 100% is claimed as UK/English Exports and then there is lots of Engineering and other manufactures goods.

      Don’t kid yourself on HYUFD, the truth is that not only is Scotland’s per capita GDP higher than England’s but while Scotland is a net exporter, (even with the re-export scam), England, or indeed the UK as a whole, are net importers.

      That translates to Scotland is a viable economy while England is not. Which is, of course, exactly why Westminster is so set upon preventing Scottish independence. Do you seriously imagine for an instant that Westminster is so munificent that it holds Scotland so fast because it loves us so very dearly?

    135. Fred says:

      This fucking clown Lucy Fraser MP, might also have mentioned that Cromwell’s troops spent three days massacring the people of Dundee!

    136. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana, in particular the one that follows which highlights that the BBC continues to be biased and that Gordon Brown continues to cultivate his wee, sleekit snake in the grass persona.

      Broon mentions that Carwyn Jones (Welsh Labour) took an action out in Court against the Westminster Government, which they then dropped (Broon doesn’t tell the audience that), but there’s no mention of Nicola Sturgeon (SNP Scotland) who did likewise but rather continues to see it through to the end … and if she / we win, Wales / Labour Party will benefit.

      ……………………………

      @ Nana …”Here’s Gordon Brown publicly backing Nicola Sturgeon on the issue of the Power Grab. He goes further by saying Holyrood should be allowed to sign deals with the EU after Brexit.

      Reporting Scotland tonight employed a news blackout of Gordon Brown’s ‘Power Grab’ comments. The programme has consistently covered the former PM’s ‘interventions’ since pre-2014, but now he’s not newsworthy?”

      https://twitter.com/IndyrefTWO/status/1062096393052020740

      …………………………………………………………………

      The waste of space BBC, with the Scots forking out around £320m a year in TV license money, also continues with its ”news blackout” in relation to numerous serious issues such as:

      https://universalcreditsuffer.com/2018/11/12/watch-as-un-rapporteur-urges-people-to-ensure-report-isnt-swept-under-the-carpet/

      Expose Brexit dark money:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YZpTP52xq8&feature=youtu.be

      ………………………

      Life in the UK now. Let’s get out.

      ‘Mother describes being forced to drink her baby’s milk as people living with poverty come forward to tell UN envoy their stories.’

      ”I was in my slippers, it was so cold. I plucked up the courage to ask them – to say I’m hungry, I have a baby. But they said “We can’t give you anything”. I had to drink my baby’s milk’….

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-borough-poverty-newham-un-philip-alston-women-mother-baby-a8631466.html

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:01 am:

      ” … Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England, Wales and Northern Ireland and £22 billion to countries outside the UK so most Scottish exports go to other UK countries.

      Balderdash!

      Just where do those figures come from, HYUFD?

      The only official figures are those of the ONS or are extrapolated from ONS data. They are all fiddled and they always have been.

      Here’s just a couple of links from Rev Stu’s reference pages here on Wings:-

      http://archive.is/5Swry

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/6240671/North-Sea-oil-gave-Scotland-massive-budget-surplus-say-Government-records.html

    138. Jack Murphy says:

      Thankyou Mr Ponting and Phantom Power. 🙂

    139. Helena Brown says:

      Perhaps I should have said that I do not want one drop of blood spilt for our independence, but given the history of the British Empire can we be sure they also believe the same.
      I may have acquaintances who were definitely NO voters. Shall we say Prof J Stephenson could be seen as reasonable compared to them.

    140. Tony O"neill says:

      As I have said from the very beging, brexit will be used to usurp the Scots parliament. Are you ready for a war?!!!

    141. Nana says:

      Just nipping in before heading out again.

      Spotted the latest from J Maugham

      Before Scotland’s Highest Court, the Government *admitted* they couldn’t ask the Supreme Court for permission to appeal
      more here
      https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1062344966914097154

      European Commission – Press release
      Brexit: European Commission intensifies preparedness work and outlines contingency action plan in the event of a no deal scenario with the UK

      http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6403_en.htm

    142. Cubby says:

      The resident lying Britnat Tory fanatic on Wings is like a punchbag he just keeps on coming back for more with his idiotic posts. It’s like a full time job refuting his nonsense.

      He never comments on the above the line article by Wings but just leeches on to others comments with his lies. Tories – running the country – telling everyone the debt is being reduced when it is nothing of the sort. Our resident Britnat Tory fanatic is just like all the Tories just bare faced liars. There has been a previous debate about whether it is good manners to call Tories scum. Sounds pretty accurate to me.

      SCUM: a definition – someone so disgraceful that they are seen as the lowest form of life.

      SCUM = Tories.

    143. Pete Barton says:

      Hi Helena, I know what you meant.

      I posted after with a Jimmy Reid style comment ie, there will be no bevvyin.

      Let us follow the non violent path walked by Ghandi and trust that the world will see us in a better light.

      As for the shrill cries of those who fear their inner dilemma most..

      It’s democracy.

    144. Nana says:

      Thread by @pmdfoster: “So the ticklish moment awaits. Consistent with @tombradby am told Withdrawal Agreement texts were in London overnight, came back to […]” #Brexit
      read on
      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1062341559855783937.html

      Tory MPs to abstain in vote on publishing Brexit legal advice
      http://archive.is/nwMUC

    145. jfngw says:

      Good to see uber unionist A.Neil is making an arse of himself, again! He’s seems to be more English than any English person I’ve ever met, the ultimate forelock tugger. Surprised he hasn’t been elevated to the Lords yet, he seems to have all the qualifications.

      BBC defending him to the hilt, strange as when he was Murdoch’s poodle he seemed to want it eliminated. But looking at the BBC now it would seem his natural home.

    146. Bill Hume says:

      Hmmmm. Lighten up a bit fellow ‘Wingers’. Remember…

      HOPE OVER FEAR.

    147. Nana says:

      The ‘unnecessary’ UK law curbing the powers of the Scottish Parliament is undermining devolution and should now be repealed, @Feorlean has said in response to @DLidington update to @houseofcommons on #brexit common policy frameworks

      see here
      https://twitter.com/ScotGovEurope/status/1062366576509415424

    148. galamcennalath says:

      This is from the link I posted at 6:42am. Keeps coming back into my head!

      It’s important and well worth remembering.

      Theresa May speaking about the Irish border on June 21st 2016, just two days before the referendum: “Just think about it. If we are out of the European Union with tariffs on exporting goods into the EU, there’d have to be something to recognise that, between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. And if you pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and has access to free movement?”

      This shows unequivocally that May completely understood the implications of a medium to hard Brexit before voting.

      This runs contrary to any narrative which says the Tories hadn’t thought about Ireland and border issues prior to EURef. The idea that Ireland came up as a problem later in EU negotiations is bollocks.

    149. mr thms says:

      The BBC’s new Scotland channel goes live in February. (Has the missing £100 million gone on paying for this?)

      I assume it will be British television since “Broadcasting” has not been devolved to Scotland… yet.

      I wonder why they picked February?

      Is it because a Brexit Deal or No Deal will have been settled, and the new channel can concentrate on promoting “The Vision” for Scotland?

      Regarding the BBC’s campaign on fake news..

      Who can forget…

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/07/11/london-calling-how-the-bbc-stole-the-referendum/

    150. Cubby says:

      I am calling for an on the spot fine of £200 for anyone not picking up a Tory and putting them in a wheelie bin. Best place for some scum. Yes that’s you resident Britnat fanatic.

      If the policy is a success it may be on its way to England – a lot more bins will be required by the local councils in England though.

    151. Robert Louis says:

      Helena at 259pm,

      Totally agree. BUT that does not mean the Scotgov, when push comes to shove, can merely sit on its hands and say ‘oh but the ‘rules’ won’t let us’ do x,y,z. No, the gloves MUST come off. Nicey, nicey, will achieve nothing. Westminster is ignoring ‘the rules’, and so should scotland.

      It does not mean violence. However, people do need to ask themselves what they would they do IF (or as it seems) WHEN London decides it wants to close the Scots Parliament.

      If Westminster dares sequester powers or shut down the Scots parliament the Scotgov needs to be ready, with a hard hitting strategy. We can be peaceful, but that does not mean sitting on our hands. Just like the liars in Westminster we should deploy every single dirty underhanded trick and propaganda method known to man, because mark my words, that is EXACTLY what westminster will do.

      Of course, as we all expect, the referendum will be called and held before brexit anyway. won’t it?

      I have been wondering just what the mechanism would be to close the Scots parliament anyway. Seriously, what would they do? come up to Edinburgh, lock the doors and hide the big key? Or just state it is closed. In such circumstances, they should be wholly ignored. The mandate for the parliament comes from the Scots people (via referendum and elections), not Westminster.

    152. Robert Louis says:

      Haha. You couldn’t make it up. The lying propagandist state controlled BBC are apprently trying to educate people about ‘fake news’. How about you just show every single episode of Reporting Scotland back to back. Propaganda Brit nat style.

      Honestly, what a joke, the BBC are world’s biggest state run and controlled propaganda outfit in earth.

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:18 am:

      ” … Weechhid It would have been perfectly possible to have a Canada style FTA for the whole UK with the EU and find a technical solution to avoid a hard border in Ireland”

      Oh! Stop talking utter pish. No one in their right senses expected other than the EU to want nothing to do with any other deals than stay and accept the EU freedoms or leave without any of them.

      It is one thing to make a deal with new members getting good terms upon joining, Westminster knows this for did not Thatcher get concessions? It is quite another thing for a member state woo got concessions to then walk away expecting even more concessions upon leaving.

      Obviously the EU draws the conclusion, and understandably so, that if such concessions were given to a leaving member state then most other remaining member states would demand the same, or better concessions.

      There isn’t going to be an adventitious deal for the UK.

    154. Bob Mack says:

      a Robert Louis,

      Ever tried to run a country without money ? Westminster holds the purse strings. Sure we can disobey, but we can’t pay.

    155. I like most of the others on here want our freedom through peaceful means but history tells us this will not happen I am sorry to say but like the Irish priest who was asked if he would like a free united Ireland said yes with all my heart but the day the first life was lost the price became to high or as Gandhi said I am willing to die for my cause but I am not willing to kill for it

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says:13 November, 2018 at 12:33 am:

      ” … I’m sick of reading his shite”

      I’ve news for you, it isn’t compulsory, so just don’t read it.

      Reminds me of the Doctor! Doctor joke:-

      Patient: Doctor! Doctor! Every time I lift my arm up like this it hurts,

      GP: Well don’t do it then.

      Seriously, By engaging with the English Nationalists we learn how they think and thus have our answers ready when we meet them in the flesh.

      Wings is a forum for debate and for information – it isn’t an old wife’s sowing circle for drinking tea and everyone agreeing with each other.

    157. Referendum1707 says:

      Bob Mack

      So how much does self respect cost? Maybe if you contact failed pet food salesman and “economics expert” Kevin Hague he can do a graph for you, he too knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

      Re bbc stealing 100 mil or whatever of Scots licence payers hard earned dosh, anyone stupid and/or cowardly enough to be still paying the propaganda tax deserves to get shafted every which way.

      ——————————————

      Informative, incisive, cheap and very easy to distribute –

      https://indyposterboy.scot/guerilla-cards/

    158. Robert Louis says:

      Bob Mack at 424pm

      Yes, of course, but other countries have done so, and succeeded. The last thing Westminster will need is a full on fight with Scotland at brexit. They would back down. But it needs our elected officials to put up a fight first.

    159. Dr Jim says:

      Ministers and political party representatives being called into Downing street to be briefed on Brexit says SKY news

      But not representatives from the SNP

    160. twathater says:

      Thank you NANA for all your sooper duuuuper links , BTW I don’t eat meat so they are veggie links .

      Just watched the Joanna Cherry skewering of corporal frazer and left a comment .

      Can anyone tell me if the tolie government appealing to the SC by challenging the Scottish Law Officials decision is in breach of the treaty and acts of union , and if so has the govt effectively #dissolved the union .
      The very fact that frazer admitted that they knew the rules yet were ignoring the rules meant that they were challenging the SG to do something about it

      Nicola is this another open goal , she SHOOOOTS , SHE SCOOOOORES

    161. Nana says:

      latest re Brexit
      https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1062386105713131521

      Could all have changed in the time taken to write this

    162. hackalumpoff says:

      Oh how awful for Jakob, must be what a colony feels like

      https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1062396672389668869

    163. One_Scot says:

      Lol, it looks like a ‘No Deal’ then.

    164. Famous15 says:

      This is vassal state stuff. We will not have protected our precious Union.Dublin has more say in this.and on and on Boris,ReesMog crying in their beer. Why do they not all bugger off and leave our wee but clever Scotland to govern itself away from these loonies.

    165. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘The white flags have gone up all over Whitehall’
      Jacob Rees-Mogg.

    166. velofello says:

      As soon as the terms of Brexit are known and before the UK leaves the EU we must declare independence. Call it UDI or cessation of Treaty with England, or whatever.I fear using a referendum, too much electronic jiggery pokery means to interfere around for my taste. And rely on no nation, institution, or peoples to support us.

    167. galamcennalath says:

      Famous15 says:

      Why do they not all bugger off and leave our wee but clever Scotland to govern itself away from these loonies.

      Exactly!

      Brexit is such a monumental constitutional change that all options need to be considered.

      If England genuinely wants ‘independence’ then that should be respected and they can get on with it. No one should stand in their way if that is the will of their people.

      Equally, Scotland needs to be allowed without external interference to consider the road it takes.

      And, Northern Ireland can consider whether its future lies with a united Ireland or with England.

      The key thing SHOULD be that each party goes away, debates, and chooses without seeking to influence others.

      With so many BritNats welded to Project Greater England, there isn’t a snowball in Hell’s chance of democratic will being respected.

    168. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      velofello @ 17:50,

      Oh, aye, and all the nations of the world will rally to us if we simply declare indy. Like they did with Catalonia.

      We are right on the cusp of winning, so we can do without these calls from hotheads and planted APs.

      But we certainly do need IR2 before we are torn out against our expressed will, whether in March or delayed. That’s called democracy.

      It’s not like we lack the facts and good reason.

    169. Nana says:

      Chris Grey replying to a Peston thread

      Takeaway from this is how short (& therefore presumably vague) the PD is. Blind Brexit is the implication

      https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1062403304326610949

    170. Albert Herring says:

      I really don’t get it.

      In Scots Law the people are sovereign.
      They made the sovereign decision to remain in the EU.
      Scots Law is part of the British Constitution.
      A country can only leave the EU in line with its own constitution.
      The UK is not doing this.

      Why isn’t anyone taking this to the ECJ?

    171. manandboy says:

      A deal is done!

    172. Bob Mack says:

      Things hotting up. It looks as if the leaked deal is right enough. Which way will they vote? They lose either way.

    173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 17:48,

      Maybe he is not just grandstanding again and has a whiff of a deal brewing between UKGov and the EU27. But the question remains: whatever it is, can May get it through the HoC?

      Maybe Labour in the end won’t vote for it. But what if they simply follow recent precedent and abstain…?

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 13 November, 2018 at 12:53 am:

      ” … See the carrot on the end of that stick? Don’t bite it.”

      The only one to bite that carrot so far is you – I’m not taking a bite at his carrot. I’m having a bite at your carrot – go figure!

    175. Nana says:

      If the PM’s ‘deal’ satisfies no-one and can’t command a majority, we mustn’t fall for her spin that the UK crashing out of EU without a deal is then inevitable – instead we should take the opportunity to get better options back on the table.
      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1062408833845420032

      One former Brexiteer Cabinet minister tells me: “We are all toast aren’t we. This is almost like the Titanic – she can’t steer it and she is not going to let anyone else steer it. Normally rats leave a sinking ship – this lot have stayed on it.
      https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1062410878656626691

      Forgot this one earlier
      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1062413822856740866

    176. Bill Purves says:

      Scotland inside the E.U. will still trade with England outside the E.U. the same as any other country outside the E.U. do, eg India China, Russia and many more

    177. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Haven’t read any of your shite for a long time either.

    178. Robert Louis says:

      We simply cannot allow Scotland to be forcibly dragged out of the EU by England in this way. I do not care what anybody says about ‘constitutional norms’ or whatever. These are exceptional times, brexit will crucify Scottish industry.

      It is simply not good enough for elected representatives to say ‘no we cannae’. No country in the world would allow such a thing. Not one. No matter what their rules or whatever previously said, NO country would simply stand by and allow it.

      The time is near when our elected representatives NEED to fight this tooth and nail. All other government business needs suspended. These are desperate times and it is not good enough to just ‘carry on as normal’, within either the Scottish Government or Scottish Parliament’.

      We do not need to wait any longer ‘to see what the brexit deal will win’. We know it is a mess. Call the freaking referendum.

    179. Macart says:

      Deal or no deal, we’re already fully aware Brexit is an economic and constitutional catastrophe. At least one faction within UK gov are aware of this too. The other one really doesn’t give a shit about the fallout for the population so long as they achieve their aim of the Singapore of the north. Both are looking for the main constitutional and political advantage. Both are looking for scapegoats to slide economic calamity upon.

      Now more than ever, I’d say cool heads are required. Measured responses from our government and measured responses from their support. Panic and frustrated rage will not help anyone.

      The public gave them a popular vote and a job of work to do. Let them do it. This was never going to be easy and it was always going to come down to the last breathe of legal and constitutional process.

      And yeah, you’d be insane not to be on your last nerve. That’s being human for you.

    180. Frank Gillougley says:

      Boris Johnson this evening:

      ‘It’s vassal state stuff as for the first time in 1,000 years this parliament will not have a say over the laws that govern this country.

      It is utterly unacceptable to anybody who believes in democracy.’

      I say, anyone for irony? No takers? How about good old-fashioned hypocrisy? Still no? Well then, very good, it’ll just have to be two-faced shitebag then.

      See these ****** ****** *********s ********s so they are – and that’s puttin’ it mildly.

      Chin ******* chin.

    181. Petra says:

      A deal is done with T May and the EU.

      The deal will be undone in the Commons.

      Either way why should we care (other than having a poor, chaotic neighbour)? If the deal doesn’t entail staying in the SM and CU we’re out.

      The penny seems to have dropped with Boris now. “This deal will have implications for the Union” ……. or words to that effect. Any deal that he could come up with, but the lazy, arrogant ignoramus can’t, would have implications for the Union too.

      Union? What Union?

    182. Ian Foulds says:

      I must admit to feeling every Indy article and comment I read that, we who have switched on to the dangers faced by our Country are coming to the conclusion that we MUST immediately prepare ourselves and our fellow citizens for an unspeakable onslaught from the ‘powers that be’.

      I also trust that our Government is also preparing for such a probability and that we shall all be ready for that moment when it is beyond doubt; in order that we are ready to grasp our Independence by the most peaceful and internationally recognised route possible or be ready to face the attacks from a decadent and dying Westminster and its lackeys.

    183. yesindyref2 says:

      @RP at 4.28
      Exactly, it’s excellent training, and unlike for real with potential YES voters, who repeat the stuff they read or see in the MSM, we at least have the luxury here of getting somewhat pissed off exasperated, also good training for keeping the heid in “real life”.

    184. Dr Jim says:

      In the last two years the English government has gone to excesses in its efforts to prove to the world what brainless incompetent power hungry maniacs they really are and yet even now as they struggle with these final bits of invented nonsense which are a creation of desperation to hold *their* precious Union together so they can still financially survive off the assets of Scotland their deceit in these matters is apparent and blatant

      The English government has failed to bend Ireland to its will as any uninformed layman would have told them at the beginning of this benighted process with the support and backing of the EU Ireland has stood strong and it’s England that now finds itself lost with its only hope of salvation the plan to ensnare Scotland without actually admitting it, because friends that’s what it’s all about now, Scotland and how to hang on to it or England goes belly up and busted and I for one am delighted at the prospect of that country getting exactly what it thought it voted for and long may they deserve it until they waken up and see what fools their own government has made of them

      Where is Jacob Reese Moggs money, where is Boris Johnsons money, where is any of their money, well we know where it isn’t, it isn’t in their beloved country of England now is it, it’s invested in every other country bar their own, that’s how much they love you English folk, they’re not stockpiling they don’t need to, we know there’ll be hardships they say, that means for you not for them Jacob’s never taken the top off his own boiled egg in the morning he has a nanny to do that whereas you might be very short of a boiled egg mighty soon

      I’m sure they’ll care deeply though because it is what you voted for…..isn’t it? control of your boiled egg

    185. Bob Mack says:

      The end game is now here depending on the vote. Nicola has done a fantastic job of Roman style horemanship in riding two horses at once. Protdcting Unionists and indy voters alike.The time to choose one horse however is with us now. If Unionists want to preserve their way of life they will just have to get on board. Simple as that.

      Nicola should in the very future return to the real issue which is independence for Scotland as her only concern.

    186. Cubby says:

      Jackie Birds face tripping her tonight on Reporting Scotland. She had to read out an apology for MISREPORTING yesterday’s report on A. Salmond and Edinburgh airport etc. Great laugh it was.

      Is Keith Brown coming down on them?

      I won’t hold my breath for the apology for Misreporting in Scotland for the last 30 years. After independence the apology will be too late. Tories may be scum but BBC Scotland are scumbags.

    187. Dan Huil says:

      The fudge is now reappearing out of England’s backside.

    188. Sinky says:

      BBC and other UK wide broadcasters. No interviews with third largest party at Westminster but quotes David Mundell.

      Message to get over:

      England and Wales voted Leave get their wish

      Northern Ireland and Gibraltar: voted Remain but get special deal

      Scotland votes Remain and gets SFA but powers removed.

      On latest attempts to anglicise Scots Law: Derek Ogg QC on Reporting Scotland talked sense. There should be two verdicts Proven and Not Proven as that is all any jury is asked to consider in any case.

      They are not asked about innocence or guilt…..do not let Scottish Government remove distinctive elements of Scots Law when there is no need to.

      Corroboration also safeguards defendants from miscarriage of justice and Scots juries can convict on a majority of 8 to 7 but in England a 10-2 majority is required.

    189. yesindyref2 says:

      @Albert Herring @6.15
      Perhaps this is a case of wait and see what happens. It is worth speculating about thuogh.

      Also AIUI it’s not only the ScotGov who could puruse a court action, any individual or group wth deep pockets or a crowdfunder could do it – if it seemed like a good idea and neccessary.

    190. Breeks says:


      Nana says:
      13 November, 2018 at 6:38 pm
      If the PM’s ‘deal’ satisfies no-one and can’t command a majority, we mustn’t fall for her spin that the UK crashing out of EU without a deal is then inevitable – instead we should take the opportunity to get better options back on the table….

      Biting my tongue… why do NOTHING until the opportunities are off the table in the first place???

      How can we progress to this Brexit “deal” with such frequent regard to the sensibilities of Ireland, while Scotland’s interests don’t even warrant a mention?

      It is NOT the time to put options back on the table when we’re not even admitted to the room which the table is in. It’s time to demand access and kick their damned cosy little table over.

    191. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s very possible that May has totally outflanked Jacob Rees-Mogg., Johnson and all the rest of the rabid Brexiteers, by taking the UK to the edge of the cliff and saying “OK then, jump. If you dare.”.

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I can’t help thinking RP has found a new leaf, and turned it over to see what’s on the other side, and likes what he sees. Patience mon Brave!

    193. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      It’s an endgame. And if we don’t like that endgame, we have others!

    194. Maria F says:

      HYUFD says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:01 am
      !Scotland exports £44.9 billion, 64% of its exports to England”

      England exports to Scotland around 60 bn, which is more than what Scotland exports to England.

      Take a look at your nearest supermarket, HYUFD. Were are most UK products from? Where are most UK products prepared and packed? Where are the main distribution centers? Where are our animals been taken to be slaughtered? What ports do our produce leave the UK from?

      Now Ttke a look at the products in your home: where most of it comes from? Sofas? furniture? clothes? glasses, medicines, decorative items? Where are the HQ of most of our retailers and any other shops that pay the corporation tax? Where is most of the VAT generated by Scotland’s economic activities paid because of where those HQ are? How many jobs are currently generated in England due to the economic activities of Scotland?

      Sorry, but you are attempting to deceive here by talking absolute nonsense. England has a massive stake in Scotland’s economic activities that goes well beyond the actual amount it exports. And of course do not forget all the other taxes that we pay: DVLA, NI, etc.

      The worry of May for the “internal market” is not really for “the UK”. It is for England. Why? Because if Scotland becomes independent, all that corporation tax, VAT, NI, salary tax, that is paid in England due to economic activities in Scotland will be paid in Scotland. BEcause all those jobs currently in England to serve Scotland’s economic activities (packing, preparing, distributing, selling us insurance, making and selling us furniture, making glasses or contacts for us, etc ) will be going to Scotland (together with all their direct and indirect taxes). Because if there is ever a hard border with Scotland, England will lose 60 bn in revenues of direct exports.

      Do you know how much is the current deficit of England in trade of goods? It is around 100 bn. Scotland is in surplus, so its deficit of trade of goods is 0. 60 bn plus all the revenues England gets indirectly from Scotland’s economic activities goes a very long way to put a plaster in such an eyewatering deficit.

      Scotland may export a bigger percentage of items to England, but England has a much lower percentage of exports of goods compared with imports than Scotland. England has a much, much, much bigger vested interest and stake in Scotland’s economy than the other way round.

      Frankly, if you are going to make an statement, at least make it complete, leaving it half way is of no use.

    195. Robert Louis says:

      Albert Herring at 615pm,

      Totally agree with you. It is time for our existence as an actual country which happens to be in a treaty with England, is addressed. The union treaty can be ended by either signatory. It is not special, or magic. It is just an agreement.

      Totally agree with re-asserting every facet of Scots law, because it seems most in Westminster know nothing about it.

    196. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Thepnr @6:42

      All evidence to the contrary

    197. Petra says:

      @ Cubby says at 7:12 pm …. ”Jackie Birds face tripping her tonight on Reporting Scotland. She had to read out an apology for MISREPORTING yesterday’s report on A. Salmond and Edinburgh airport etc. Great laugh it was. Is Keith Brown coming down on them?”…

      Any idea what she said last night, Cubby?

    198. Fred says:

      Brexit will divide the English for a generation & Police Scotland will be asked to go south to help out with the rioters. What city will go up in flames first?

    199. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Nana @ 18:38,

      Not far down on the FM’s twitter feed there’s the usual English twat crowing about how we couldn’t survive on our own on “IrnBru and deep fried Mars bars*”.

      Which begs the usual question, why are they so keen to hang on to us then…?

      *(And the only people I’ve ever seen ordering a deep fried Mars bar in a chipper were English tourists having a laugh.)

    200. North chiel says:

      Mike Russell probably would have more chance of getting a copy of the “ so-called draft agreement “ from the EU side than the so-called “ United Kingdom” of Scotland & England.The “ union treaty of 1707” has to be now “ called out” as being in complete disrepute and effectively over.

    201. galamcennalath says:

      if May does manage to progress this, it will be by promising different things to different people/groups down the line.

      To all … this is the best withdrawal agreement possible.

      To most ….result of EURef can be delivered.

      To many … don’t worry the final trade deal will be so comprehensive problems like Ireland and business concerns will disappear.

      To others … don’t worry the final trade deal will not be customs union and we will take back control.

      To some … we can still leave at the end of the transition period with no trade deal.

    202. geeo says:

      Hard to believe, that so late into the game, some people still think the SNP Scotsgov have no plans.

      When things move, they will move quickly.

      Todays proclamation means nothing until WM approves it or dismisses it. Absolutely nothing of actual relevence to our timing has occurred yet.

    203. wullie says:

      Aye, I can see Scots law protecting us. I wish I had some examples from the past. Cant see what they have done over the last three hundred years or so, except Lord Cooper

    204. North chiel says:

      First things first , let’s see if outright civil war now within Gov / Tory party ? If Yes then May finished. If No ( seems unlikely? ) however, standby for the biggest propaganda blitz since Sept 2014.

    205. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      Pretty much. 😉

      Lot of irons in the fire about now. 🙂

    206. Petra says:

      @ Fred says at 7:36 pm …. ”Brexit will divide the English for a generation & Police Scotland will be asked to go south to help out with the rioters. What city will go up in flames first?”

      Fred there was an article in the National recently (can’t find it now) that outlined that there had been a meeting in September, of the National Police Chiefs’ Council, whereby a pact was made for a UK joint Police unit to respond to Brexit particularly in Northern Ireland, if there’s going to be a hard border. Police Scotland had vowed to send around 400 cops (I think?) to NIreland. Meanwhile what do we do with a depleted force in Scotland? Oh right, they’ll send even more English cops up here. The Union’s policing musical chair scam.

    207. Ottomanboi says:

      HYUFD is a frequent commenter on the site ‘conservativehome’ among others. He’s an Old Tonbridgean.
      Consequently, one might as well preach to a brick wall.
      Conserve your energy citizens.

    208. HYUFD says:

      Les Wilson England benefits from.selling goods to Scotland no doubt, Scotland benefits even more as a percentage of its economy from goods sold to England

    209. HYUFD says:

      Xaracen Scotland receives less in net subsidy than Wales and Northern Ireland and the North and Midlands to be fair but only London, the SouthEast and East make a net contribution to the UK Treasury

    210. Cubby says:

      Petra@7.29pm

      It’s a bit tricky to explain clearly. Here goes. Yesterday they were so desperate to get more Salmond smears on their 6.30 pm show they rushed a report on AFTER the weather report. Never seen that before. There was new info about the police talking to Edinburgh airport staff re A Salmond. No comment from police. Britnats leaking or making up stories. Who knows.

      As part of this report they reported incompetently that the SNP had reported Alex Salmond to the authorities for sexual misconduct. Obviously total rubbish.

      They covered the story on the late evening show at the beginning and gave it big licks but this time without the stupid wrong statement. Just said the police were talking to Edinburgh airport re A Salmond – made a big deal out of very little info.

      Of course they never apologised to Michelle Thompson and that was a total disgrace. So why have they apologised now for that wrong statement.

      Are they incompetent propagandists. Either way they are scumbags.

      The Britnat media have got members of the public that are Britnat SNP haters to lie previously. This is a very worrying trend. Make no mistake there are Britnats out there who will risk a lot to attack the SNP and in particular its leaders. Their hatred knows no bounds.

      Britnats are liars.

    211. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers The largest single consumer of Scotch whisky and gin outside Scotland is England (the USA has its own whisky like Jack Daniels).

      England on its own would be the 7th largest economy in the world, Scotland the 46th

    212. The Statute of Jewry was a statute issued by Henry III of England in 1253,

      Article One provided that any Jew could only remain in England only if he or she would “serve Us in some way”

      Article Nine commanded that “every Jew wear his badge conspicuously on his breast”,

      The Edict of Expulsion was a royal decree issued by King Edward I of England on 18 July 1290, expelling all Jews from the Kingdom of England.

    213. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers The EU has trade deals with Japan and Canada and South Korea and could do the same for the UK with a technical solution for the Irish border without the whole UK Customs Union May has had to agree

    214. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers If I was an English nationalist I would be advocating for England to leave the UK as well as the EU

    215. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      And it only needs one to work.

    216. Bob Mack says:

      Angry troll comes forth from under bridge!!!

      Ha ha ha ha ha.

      That’s what it feels like to be a vassal state buddy.

    217. North chiel says:

      Is it now time for the treaty of union to be brought to the fore. Supposedly it was a U.K. decision to leave the EU . Supposedly the sovereignty of the Scottish people is vested in our MP’s who represent us at Westminster. I assume that a majority of Scots MP’s voted against the decision to invoke Article 50. Consequently how can this be compatible with the “ equal partner” union treaty of 1707 ?

    218. Cubby says:

      Our resident fanatical English Tory Britnat seems to have a complex about size. Size does seem to matter to him. England is bigger this bigger that. Bit of a fascist bully complex coming out every so often.

    219. yesindyref2 says:

      but only London, the SouthEast and East make a net contribution to the UK Treasury

      From for instance, all the Government ministries, paid for by the whole UK but jobs concentrated in London and around (like Croydon). Or Defence with HQs in England, but barracks in Scotland, an airbase and a naval base, no top brass, research etc.

      So these are paid by the whole UK including Scotland, but the economic benefit – jobs, taxes, go to London, the South-east and East. In other words, they’re subsidy junkies.

      Similar too for the BBC, where Scotland gets back £100 million a year less than it pays in, subsidising the largely London-based BBC.

      Scotland is “pooling” our resources, the UK shares it out largely to “London, the SouthEast and East”. No wonder they contribute more revenues, they’re taking all our money.

    220. HYUFD says:

      Maria Total English exports are over £300 billion so exports to Scotland about 20 to 25% of that. Of course England benefits from Scottish imports and sending goods to Scotland but it works the other way too

    221. Pete Barton says:

      For Hyfud:

      From the Bonzos, just for you…

      “Little Sir Echo how do you do, Hallo, Hallo”

      If you think Wings is an echo chamber, try breaking out of your own head space.

      “You’re always so far away…”

    222. Dan Huil says:

      It would certainly help Scotland if civil war breaks out in England, as long as we weren’t sucked into it, and thus broke free from this disgusting union with England.

    223. HYUFD says:

      The civil service and local government and the public sector are a lower percentage of jobs in London and the South East than the rest of the UK

    224. HYUFD says:

      Dan Hull Scotland was involved in the last English Civil War, first on the side of Parliament then on the side of the Royalists and the future Charles IInd

    225. Rock says:

      “The battle for independence may get nasty, but it can and must be won.”

      It will definitely be won – in 2640 AD, in my humble opinion.

      Some esteemed posters who do not hesitate to pontificate at length on any subject under the sun have gone completely silent regarding the timing of the next independence reason.

      Has Nicola issued a secret gagging order against them?

    226. Dan Huil says:

      “English Civil War” ha ha ha! Says it all.

    227. Bob Mack says:

      I too can see trouble brewing in England, especially if Mrs May gets her deal. Perhaps the SNP should help her.

      Let them claw each others throats if they wish. The imperialist mindset will destroy them from within.

    228. galamcennalath says:

      As always, BritNats obsessed with money, trade, resources, wealth.

      As they say, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

      Personally, my main concern is live the last part of life in a real democracy and bequeath that to the generation to come. Rule by the people for the people with elites, privileged, vested interests, all held in check and made accountable. And a fairer more just society. Other Nordics have done it, so can we.

    229. yesindyref2 says:

      The civil service and local government and the public sector are a lower percentage of jobs in London and the South East than the rest of the UK

      Which has NOTHING to do with the money Scotland is “charged for”, and where it is spent. If Scotland provides £20 billion, and £18 billion of that is spent in London and the South East, then at an economic multiplier of 0.6, London and the South-East are providing £12.8 billion of revenues to the Treasury WITH SCOTLAND’S MONEY. Scotland is NOT attributed those revenues, though it’s with OUR spending money.

      Do you get it? No, I thought not.

    230. Cubby says:

      I listened to the Jackie Bird apology again. It was wrong. They cannot even get a simple apology correct. I won’t bore you with the details.

      Propagandists picking up large salaries cannot even get a simple apology wording correct. Britnat liars that are incompetent or was it deliberately wrong to confuse. Or was it deliberately wrong so they could raise the subject matter again and apologise for getting the apology wrong. They truly are scumbags.

    231. yesindyref2 says:

      And by the way, even when Scotland is Independent, which will be son, London, the South-East and the East will STILL be being subsidised, by the other regions of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

      Us in Scotland?

      We’re out, and can spend our money in Scotland where WE get the revenues.

    232. yesindyref2 says:

      soon, though “son” does seem to be appropriate in a Scottish way.

    233. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:01 pm

      “The resident British Nationalist who is a fanatical English Tory does not know his arse from his elbow.

      His posts often contradict his previous posts. One of the biggest diddies that have ever pitched up on Wings. But not as big a diddy as Rockshit. Our resident Britnat is still to find an article in the Daily Mail forecasting events 240 years in the future. So Rockshit must still be the biggest diddy on Wings.

      Our resident Britnat is not here to learn or debate or to convince but just to disrupt. What a total plonker. You could just see him writing a paper in school on something and quoting the Daily Mail as his source for his reliable facts to justify his conclusions.”

      All that waffle without countering the point made.

      The likes of you are incapable of countering any of the points I make and have to resort to waffle and personal insults.

      Since you think you are so clever, why don’t you go on the record as to when the next independence referendum should be held in your esteemed view?

    234. Cubby says:

      In Outlaw king there are scenes where the Sots have to pay taxes to Edward 1. The Scots say treachery we were promised if we made peace we would not have to pay the taxes.

      In Outlaw King there are scenes where the Scots have to give up their young men to join Edward 1 army to fight abroad. The Scots say treachery we were promised if we made peace we would not have to give up our young men.

      Sound just like the present day. Britnats lying and taking our money and young soldiers. The Union must be terminated.

    235. Meg merrilees says:

      Read between the lines of this response

      I think the Scottish Government has got plans… or ‘better option’s as Nicola calls them

      Nana says:
      13 November, 2018 at 6:38 pm quoting the FM:

      If the PM’s ‘deal’ satisfies no-one and can’t command a majority, we mustn’t fall for her spin that the UK crashing out of EU without a deal is then inevitable – instead we should take the opportunity to get better options back on the table.

    236. Rock says:

      “Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:01 pm

      “What a total plonker.”

      Isn’t it a bit rich to call someone a plonker when YOU thought Indyref 14 meant 14 independence referendums?

      Cubby says (“When they think we’re not listening”):
      11 November, 2018 at 4:42 pm

      “Manandboy@3.57pm

      Indyref 14 – bloody hell that sounds like a Rockshit forecast for the future. Still at it after 14 referendums – surely not.”

      Cubby says:
      11 November, 2018 at 6:30 pm

      “Hey Rockshit I knew it was 2014 -diddy – it was a joke just like you and your joke forecasts – apprentice Nostradamus.”

      Don’t give me that shit of you knew – why would you then be attacking Manandboy who has nothing to do with me?

    237. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@9.14pm

      Hey Rockshit I have already told you when – soon – and I told you that was all you were going to get – like it or lump it – try paying attention.

      Most of that post does not refer to you but the other plonker who is trying his hardest to take your crown away. But if you thought it all was you then if the cap fits so be it.

    238. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:12 pm

      “Joanne Cherry is asking Lucy Frazer the Tory Justice Minister why the Supreme Court has been asked to intervene in the article 50 case, as Scots Law states that when a unanimous verdict is given by the Scottish Law Lords,there is no facility to overturn that decision.
      Miss Frazer reply. “We are well aware of Scots Law ,but we look forward to the decision of the Supreme Court”

      Translated. “Tough,we have our our legal system”.

      Looks like our laws and the Treaty of Union being ignored yet again.”

      Rock (8th November – “The news that could be”):

      If anything, Scotland’s pretendy “Supreme Court” is doing the dirty work in the name of the UK establishment.

      It would never, ever unambigously make a ruling which would harm Westminster’s stranglehold on Scotland.

      If any “pleb” needs reminding, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.”

    239. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Well, yes-leavers, how do you feel now about becoming the vassal state’s vassal state…?

      Or how about getting back to basics – being our own sovereign state, and deciding our own future together…?

    240. Rock says:

      HYUFD says:
      13 November, 2018 at 1:05 pm

      “Dave McEwan Hill The great Ruth Davidson has taken the Scottish Tories from just 1 MP in Scotland to 13 and overtaken Scottish Labour as the main opposition in Holyrood to the SNP and she has not finished yet!”

      Are you able to deny that Davy?

      As Ottomanboi rightly said on another thread: “The rose-tinted specs, worn by many on here, need to be discarded.”

      For the record:

      Rock (13th May 2015 – “Moodievision: The Fall And Fall…”):

      “Ruth Davidson is the most disgusting and nastiest politician in Scotland in my view.”

    241. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@9.20pm

      Hey Rockshit You truly are a plonker but you are keeping the Britnat diddy on Wings crown because you are a bloody boring boring boring plonker. I Didnt attack manandboy – only someone with your lack of imagination could not see it was a joke at your expense. Ha ha you are the joke.

      The big joke on Wings is you displaying your lack of knowledge and imagination with your boring repetitive posts. Best go and sit in a corner for a while.

    242. ScottieDog says:

      @HYUFD
      “The civil service and local government and the public sector are a lower percentage of jobs in London and the South East than the rest of the UK”

      You forgot that banks are part public entities – essentially massively overpaid civil servants. Not my words but those of Martin Wolfe of the FT.
      The government is the guarantor for the above and that’s the only way banks can function with as little equity as they do.

      Analyse the national debt before and after 2007 and you’ll see where the majority of state money has gone.
      The government also sanctioned the creation of £445 bn via QE to buy up existing gilts (debt) Who owns most gilts? Why the wealthy with the biggest portfolios.

      You need to define what is state funded.

    243. Legerwood says:

      Whisky exports 2017
      “”Scotch Whisky has enjoyed a record-breaking year for exports in 2017. According to official HMRC data, last year Scotch grew in both volume and value (by 1.6% and 8.9% respectively) to a total of £4.36bn – the equivalent of 1.23bn bottles exported globally.
      The figures come from the latest HMRC export data which showed that Scotch Whisky accounted for over 20% of all UK food and drink exports. There was further growth in exports of Single Malt Scotch Whisky, growing by 14.2% in 2017 to £1.17bn.””
      https://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/news-publications/news/2017-export-figures/#.W-tBu_Sny9c

      Breakdown by country
      “”Scotch Whisky continues to be one of the most popular spirits across the globe and demand is driven from a diverse range of markets. Overall, the EU accounted for 31% of Scotch Whisky exports, the top destination for exports. North America and Asia/Oceania were second and third, with a share of 26% and 22% respectively.
      The largest export destinations for Scotch Whisky (defined by value) in 2017 were:
      1. USA – £922m +7.7% (£856m in 2016)
      2. France – £433m +2.1% (£424m in 2016)
      3. Singapore – £291m +29.4% (£225m in 2016)
      4. Germany – £184m +13.5% (£162m in 2016)
      5. Spain – £175m +5.2%(£166m in 2016)
      6. Taiwan – £160m -8.3% (£175m in 2016)
      7. UAE – £130m -1.2% (£131m in 2016)
      8. Latvia – £120m +105% (£59m in 2016)
      9. South Africa – £114m +20.7% (£95m in 2016)
      10. Mexico – £111 -0.4% (£111m in 2016)””

    244. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 9:23 pm

      “Rockshit@9.14pm

      Hey Rockshit I have already told you when – soon – and I told you that was all you were going to get – like it or lump it – try paying attention.

      Most of that post does not refer to you but the other plonker who is trying his hardest to take your crown away.”

      In my humble opinion there is no bigger plonker than the one who thought Indyref 14 meant 14 independence referendums.

      Why include my (posting) name in posts that have nothing to do with me?

      “Soon” doesn’t mean anything in this context- you don’t have the guts to go on the record with a suggestion when YOU think it should be held.

      For your information, Brexit is scheduled to happen “soon”.

    245. Mark Potter-Irwin says:

      Please God (or whatever?)we are not to be reduced to a UK Civil War.
      All the signs are there. (no facts to back that up, just a gut feeling).

    246. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 9:30 pm

      “Rockshit@9.20pm

      I Didnt attack manandboy – only someone with your lack of imagination could not see it was a joke at your expense. Ha ha you are the joke.”

      It was most certainly not a joke – if you can’t admit you made a fool of yourself, you are more dishonest than Davidson and Dugdale.

      Why would you make a joke about me in a response to a post that had nothing to do with me?

      Cubby says (“When they think we’re not listening”):
      11 November, 2018 at 4:42 pm

      “Manandboy@3.57pm

      Indyref 14 – bloody hell that sounds like a Rockshit forecast for the future. Still at it after 14 referendums – surely not.”

    247. yesindyref2 says:

      Logically of course, since Scotland is 1/3rd of the UK’s landmass, we should have 1/3rd of the total GDP.

      What happened?

    248. sandycraig says:

      Haven’t posted for a while but HYFUD is talking crap at 8.45pm.

      Largest consumer of scotch whisky in the world per capita is Singapore, but the US is the biggest importer with Mexico in 10th place. England or the UK not in the top 10.

      Largest consumer of gin in the world is the Philippines with the UK 4th or 5th depending where you look.

      Doesn’t matter where you look England doesn’t compare with many Asian or South American countries. Making figures up again hoping it looks good.

    249. Ken500 says:

      Scotland exports £32Billion without Oil. Scotland (pro rata) exports more than the rest of the UK. Scotland exports and imports are more balanced. Scotland does not have such a high balance of payments deficits as the rest of the UK. Scotland raises more tax revenues pro rata than the rest of the UK.

      Scotland raises £60Billion (without Oil) The UK raises £628Billion. Take £60Billion from £628Billion. £568. Divide by 11 (1/12) £51.5Billion (pro rata).

      Scotland has to pay for Trident/Military. £1Billion. Loan repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. £4Billion? Tax evasion £3Billion? Scotland can borrow very little. £6Billion? to grow the economy. Scotland has lost £4Billion a year in Oil & Gas revenues because of high Tory taxes.

      Scotland has to pay for administration in London S/E (Westminster administration to try and ruin the Scottish economy). £1Billion. Scotland has to pay for Hinkley Point and HS2. A total waste of money. Scotland has to pay more for fuel and energy despite being in surplus and nearer the source. Over £20Billion a year.

      The Oil revenues spent elsewhere £300Billion.

      Illegal wars, tax evasion, and financial fraud have cost Scotland £Billions.

    250. Dr Jim says:

      All over the internet Scotland’s people are getting angrier today and now that it’s started it’s not going away

      It’s about time too

    251. sandy says:

      Oh, for God’s sake, EVERYBODY posting or reading tonight send Rock a date for INDY2.
      See if that will shut him up for a while.

    252. sandy says:

      Post it to Rock NOW.

    253. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh dear, if you look at the UK EEZ 743,965 sq km, out of that 462,263 sq km are Scottish seas = 62% of the UK EEZ, so the rUK has just 38% Leaved. Sounds like an EU Referedum result!

      http://marine.gov.scot/data/facts-and-figures-about-scotlands-sea-area-coastline-length-sea-area-sq-kms

      So add the landmass Scotland = 80,000 sq km, the UK 242,000 sq km, gives UK 986,000, Scotland 542,000, the rUK 464,000, which makes Scotland 55% of the UK, and the rUK just 45%. Sounds like an Independence Referendum result! YAY!

      So one thing’s for sure, Scotland ain’t “too small”.

    254. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HFYUD at 8.35

      “England on its own would be the 7th largest economy in the world, Scotland the 46th”

      Exactly. And as England is twelve times the size of Scotland that means that in proportion Scotland has a much bigger economy than England – you utter prat

    255. IZZIE says:

      Funny coincidence on EBC news Laura, Emma and Katya in London NEWRY and Brussels wearing a white coat a blue coat and a red coat.

    256. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      sandy @ 21:58,

      OK. =sigh= Though I fear it won’t shut the f***er up. The creep has even started back-quoting other people, FFS. (What kind of database is he keeping? Is it even legal?)

      IR2 will be on Thursday 21.March.2019 or 28.March.2019. There. Sorry I can’t be more precise, but my crystal ball is long past its best (just like its owner).

      But whatever, I bet it’s still going to deliver a way closer result than his Nostrodumbus Mk.2 model! =laugh=

    257. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 9.29

      Why would I want to deny that really stupid post? The SNP has 36 seats to the Tories 13. That is the second worst ever Tory result in Scotland.

    258. Gfaetheblock says:

      Dave McEwen hill

      That’s not how maths works

    259. yesindyref2 says:

      That’s strange, England’s seas are 230,000 sq km with a landmass of 130,000 sq km for a total of 360,000 sq km. Comapred to Scotland total of 542,000. So England in total is just 2/3rds our size. Are they too small to be Independent? No, I don’t think so.

      Texas by the way is 696,000 sq km, so they’re still bigger than us. Oh well.

    260. Jaygee says:

      Is this the Wings site or is it Rock’s blog.

    261. Macart says:

      My, but there’s some grumpy souls out there in UK gov. Bit of a falling out between sociopaths as it were.

      You know, they don’t have to call the devolved parliaments in on their briefing. How and ever, given there’s a bit of a problem with N.I. and Scotland in particular? It would have been nice if a bit of hand holding and consultation had been involved. Common courtesy and simple diplomacy toward such valued partners. No?

      Especially since one of them is yer actual nation partner and co-signatory to the document which forms the treaty of union. (shrugs) Their choice.

      S’okay though, couple of court cases, a couple of votes in commons, a rammy or two in the lords and a possible indyref, GE, SE should clear it all up. 🙂

    262. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well, if the 650 MPs at Westminster were allocated according to Landmass, Scotland would have 215 of them.

      And if accordiing to total size including EEZ, we’d have 357 MPs, compared to the rUK 293.

      We’re taking over 🙂

    263. Fred says:

      Scotland has nearly all the fresh water stockpile & that’s the new oil! Cheers! 🙂

    264. Jock McDonnell says:

      O/T

      Derek Ogg is correct.

    265. Nana says:

      I reckon there will be a falling out tomorrow 🙂

      DUP leader Arlene Foster responds to the draft text Brexit agreement- Would be “democratically unacceptable for NI trade rules to be set by Brussels. NI would have no representation in Brussels and would be dependent on a Dublin government speaking up for our core industries”
      https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1062451464180785155

    266. Cadogan Enright says:

      Been enjoying the patriotic utterances of the English MP’s today

      We can never accept being reduced to the status of a vassal state taking our laws from a foreign parliament

      Only our parliament must control our laws, boarders etc etc or we lave lost our sovereignty

      I hope someone has the microphone and recorder running for the next referendum

    267. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 22:27,

      Oh, and we host the nukes. =grin=

      (If only it were that simple…)

    268. Jock McDonnell says:

      @Cadogan Enright
      Boris is priceless isn’t he, banging on about 1000 years of parliamentary history.
      Says it all. Precious England.
      I’m almost chuckling, but its too serious.

    269. Footsoldier says:

      One thing is certain Scotland has managed to get into the position of being 100% ignored but hey, we have an SNP government so all’s well.

    270. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Nana @ 22:33,

      And so the mask slips. It wasn’t just about “no customs border in the Irish Sea” after all.

      What treacherous servants of their community these antediluvian duds are proving to be: from their rants, you would never realise that NI actually voted Remain!

    271. `Angle` (germanic) means crooked or twisted ,

      `England` literally means the land of the twisted crooks.

    272. Maria F says:

      HYUFD says:
      13 November, 2018 at 8:51 pm
      “Total English exports are over £300 billion so exports to Scotland about 20 to 25% of that”

      And?

      The percentage of exports to the EU by the England for 2017 was 49%. If Scotland becomes independent, whatever is left of the current union would be losing, as you say, 20 to 25% of its exports in addition to more or less the above, (plus of course the enormous stake that England has in Scotland’s economy as explained in my comment above). 49 plus 25% makes in my books 74%. Therefore, by leaving the EU England is potentially exposing itself to lose 74% of its exports. So, really, what is your point? England will be far, far worse on this, particularly considering that while Scotland may lose one trading partner that can happily exchange for another 27 plus all the other countries with trade deals with the EU, for whom exactly is England going to swap its current trade with the 27, the countries with current trade deals with the EU plus an independent Scotland?

      USA chlorinated chickens, here we come!!

      As I said in my previous comment, if you are going to tell a story, tell it complete:

      England imports in the Year to June 2018 were a whooping £470 bn. Its imports for the same period of time were £331.3 bn. That makes a deficit of trade of goods of a breathtaking £138.7 bn.

      Isn’t it a fascinating coincidence that a “share” of England’s deficit in trade of goods equivalent to a 10% is £13.87bn, a figure which is remarkably close to the “deficit” allocated to Scotland by GERS?

      Now, lets look at Scotland:
      Exports for the same period of time: £28.8bn
      Imports for the same period of time: £24.9bn

      The “percentage of exports” is a smokescreen attempting to hide the reality: the current stake of England on Scotland’s economy is enormous and much bigger than the other way round. The percentage of exports is an arbitrary figure that is meaningless when you look at the whole picture. You cannot only concentrate in percentage of “exports” from England. You have to look at everything else because that “everything else” is what is bringing the big bucks to England from Scotland.

    273. Col says:

      Imagine for one second that instead of the UK government which is basically the English government because of their inbuilt majority, imagine that they were proposing instead of closing down holyrood they were planning to open a devolved English parliament instead.
      Exactly, you can’t imagine because what they want is to expand their greater England as far as possible under the guise of Britishness. If they put enough hurdles in Scotland’s way and manage to scupper a vote even taking place before using every dirty trick in the book to squash the SNP what then? We may have to wait a good few brexited years before we can recover and you only need to look at the damage the tories have inflicted on Scotland in a few small years to get a taster of what will come.
      They will destroy this country WE call home before we finally break away. We are just a colony after all and one which they will be in competition with once we dissolve the union so they will lay waste to our country before the inevitable happens. Sobering thought. If there’s one mistake we’ve made it’s not demanding broadcasting when we had a majority in Westminster.
      The BBC is going to keep working its magic on us. You only have to look at their tactics during the last UK election. They made it all about the SNP’s performance in holyrood which the BBC in Scotland has used huge resources in poo pooing for years. Failing Scotland under the SNP is the message always and it works. Maybe not to the degree they’d like but it still works to an extent.
      There’s a shit storm of huge proportions headed our way, when we know what brexit is going to be like and the people by in large roll over and accept it the focus of Westminster will be on Scotland. All available resources will be used to secure the golden goose. Every broadcaster and newspaper will be singing from the same hym sheet and it will be coordinated with almost limitless resources.
      We can’t let Quebec happen here.

    274. Maria F says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      13 November, 2018 at 10:21 pm
      “That’s strange, England’s seas are 230,000 sq km”

      Is that counting in the 6000 sq miles of Scottish territorial waters that so “generously” were “given” to England by Labour?

    275. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Cadogan Enright @ 22:35,

      If hypocrisy were air pollution instead of verbal pollution, we in Scotland would all be badly suffocating from BritNat effluent right now.

      As for remaining doubters among us here, see my posting upthread:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-whistleblower/#comment-2407750

    276. Bob Mack says:

      Really enjoying tonight and watching Reece Mogg animated and foaming at the corners of his mouth.Well Lord Snooty is falling out with the Eton boys. He is furious. Civil war in the Tories about how bad Brexit should be is definitely on the menu.

      May has brought them to the cliff edge and dared them to jump.

      My way or the (high)way over the edge. Shamefully I am enjoying their discomfort no end. Backstabbing and attacks are the order of the day, and boy did the DUP earn their money. Sold out again by the Tories just like 1920. They never learn. Stupidity appears to be hereditary in N Ireland Unionist community.

      Bask in their wretchedness friends.

    277. yesindyref2 says:

      @Maria F
      Pass. If it doesn’t include that, it would be 15,000 sq km more for us, an extra 3%, and less for the rUK.

    278. Jock McDonnell says:

      Good to hear Clive Ponting, although he’s under the common misconception, debunked so often by The Rev, that Labour needs Scottish seats.
      They’ve had Scottish seats galore & it made no difference. What Labour needs as Blair proved, are seats in England – but thats not happening anytime soon.

    279. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@9.43pm

      ” Why would you make a joke about me in a post that has nothing to do with me”

      Why would I not Rockshit. You are one big joke just own it or pissof.

      You repeat the same boring crap and make your ludicrous apprentice Nostradamus forecasts whilst challenging others to act as stupidly as you.

      You are great big joke. If I want to joke about your stupid forecasts I will do so. So suck it up or pissof.

    280. Breeks says:


      Rock says:
      13 November, 2018 at 9:14 pm
      Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:01 pm

      Since you think you are so clever, why don’t you go on the record as to when the next independence referendum should be held in your esteemed view?…

      I’ll go on the record and say I don’t think there actually will be a referendum. The Union will destroy itself via the formal breach of the Union Treaty, which will occasion the signatories of that Treaty to revert to their pre-Treaty status of separate Kingdoms with separate Constitutional identities.

      The collapse of the Union will occur independently of any majority for or against Independence, because it will fail on some technical competence in law, which is absolute, and unaffected by ephemeral popular opinion.

      This path to Independence, while boasting Constitutional legitimacy in law, will nevertheless be weak in its democratic credentials, and vulnerable to dispute, therefor to placate democracy advocates, a Constitutional Plebiscite will be required quickly to ratify the Scotland’s Constitutional integrity with a ratifying majority.

      It may be this democratic ratification will be a precursor to International Recognition, but I don’t believe so. Europe will recognise Scotland quickly, because I believe it will be the ECJ which will make a definitive ruling which recognises the legitimacy and primacy of Scottish Sovereignty and gets the ball rolling in the first place.

      I believe too however that a formal Plebiscite will also be necessary, indeed desirable, to placate the Unionists, and extend them the opportunity to salvage some residual concept of Union with England. They will of course fail in this venture, especially since the 1707 Union will no longer exist, any future Union with England will be a new Union to be agreed anew from scratch, and even if by some miracle such a notion won popular support in the Plebiscite, the “new” Union would require to be Constitutionally sound and thereby respect Scotland’s inalienable Sovereignty, and frankly, that issue alone would be a deal breaker for the English.

      So, to summarise for the record, I say there will be no IndyRef2, instead, a technical breach of the Union prompted by thr ECJ, which delivers Constitutional Sovereignty and accordant recognition to Scotland, to be followed by a ratification Plebiscite held within six months to a year to reconcile our Scot vs Scot differences, (without the interference of the BBC’s subversive propaganda) and tick the democracy box to properly complete our emancipation from Westminster rule.

      Scotland will, (I hope), never leave the EU, but if we do manage to screw it up and find ourselves Brexited outside the EU, or idling in some transitional limbo, I believe the foolish calamity of Brexit and the South British economy careering off the rails will seriously undermine the Euroskeptic arguments that Scotland is better off outside the EU, and I believe all talk of a second EuroRef can be parked up a quiet cul-de-sac and forgotten about.

      The two areas of lingering concern are just how acrimonious and protracted the dissolution of the United Kingdom becomes, since it is fair to say Westminster will hardly relish the dismantling of the UK, and secondly, whether disgruntled Unionists and Orange Order BritNat diehards agitate strife and instability. Frankly, the more impatient I get waiting for Scotland to get its Constitutional act together, the less I care about some gullible arsehole in white gloves and bowler hat who idolises an imbecile like Ruth Davidson and believes what they see and hear on the BBC.

    281. Cubby says:

      Rockshit and the other Britnat fanatical English Tory seem to be working like a Britnat tag team.

      Suggested team name ” The Plonkers”.

    282. TheItalianJob says:

      @Breeks At 11.28pm

      You raise some interesting points and arguments. Certainly things have changed dramatically since Nicola Sturgeon announced through the vote endorsed in Holyrood to have and Independence referendum.

      The fact that the highest court in Scotland had decreed we go to the ECJ for a ruling on whether WM can vote to revoke Article 50 and told WM that it cannot be reffered for a ruling to the Supreme Court quite clearly upholds Scottish sovereignty in law.

      As you quite rightly keep pointing out is that Scotland has its own inbuilt Sovereignty and any breach of such by Westminster is a breach of the so called Act of Union.

      It may very well be that such a breach will come to pass and the legality of Scotland’s sovereignty will indeed lead to Scotland declaring we have left the Union without the requirement for a referendum.

      We will have to see how this pans out but make no mistake the U.K. establishment will do all in its power to thwart such a scenario. But as you point out we may have strong friends in the EU and hopefully elsewhere to support us.

    283. geeo says:

      Breeks at 11.28pm

      I have been saying that for months now.

      I believe the indyref may be preferred choice for the Scotsgov, but they have ensured there are seriously hard hitting alternatives.

      The Continuity Bill is genuine brilliance

    284. Effijy says:

      HYUFD says:
      13 November, 2018 at 12:05 am
      Hamish100 Argentina invaded the Falklands and intelligence showed the Belgrano had been ordered to attack the British task force
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080490/Belgrano-Britain-WAS-right-sink-ship-attacked-Task-Force.html

      You use the word “Intelligence” but your posts show its something you have no relationship with.

      The video above from one of the top civil servants was entirely credible and all about cover up and corruption of the Westminster parties and the secret services.

      How anyone could believe a word from either group shows great levels of stupidity or ignorance.

      You top it all by referring to an article from the Daily Hail the UK’s leading Fascist Paper that wouldn’t use the truth if their life depended on it.

      You could work with the Hail as you continually use false statistic and bogus claims.

      Time you came up with a name from your Scrabble Tiles as you
      have Zeros credibility.

      y

    285. Hamish100 says:

      ROCK AND CO away to beddy’s?

      rev how much do we need to out up with their copy and paste jobs. 600 years?

    286. Sunniva says:

      Really quite enjoying watching Boris squirming in his own s**t. What did he expect? He got us into this mess.

    287. Jeff says:

      Rockshit & HYFUD – I think we’ve got ’em worried…..

    288. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 23:28,

      Well, it’s certainly dawning on more and more people that you can’t both have Brexit and also maintain the constitutional integrity of the UK, however “flexible” this (in)famous unwritten thing may be. One or the other just has to go.

      Since the English Government seems bent on the former come hell or high water, it just seems a question of which fissure in the UK will split asunder first.

      If I were Northern Irish and (by happy accident of birth) not one of the swivel-eyed zealots, I would be hopping mad right now at the DUP traduction of the common weal.

      Hard to know which is the more contemptible, the pathetic Fluffy or the immovable Arlene. Neither represents anyone but their own narrow faction.

      Never mind, just think what a blessed relief it will turn out to be for the likes of FUD, the typical English Daily Heil reader and the BBC. They will have rid themselves of the vile northern scroungers who are always complaining while bleeding their treasury dry, and will be able to talk openly about “England” again without having to look over their shoulder or pretend it’s something else. (Just sorry for the Welsh, but nothing’s perfect.)

    289. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The investigation of the suggested Ballymurphy massacre by 1st Paras is now underway and will be as destructive if not more destructive to the illusion of a civilised and sensible British State as the Derry Bloody Sunday episode.

      I have watched a sea change of opinion of the British State accelerating over the past decade and I feel we are in the process of a permanent change of attitude that will steadily drive Scotland away from the union. I think the move is now irreversible. Many ordinary people now just don’t like Britain any more.

      I believe in 2012 as we set off on Referendum One the figures approximately will have been 50% for the union, 30% for independence and 20% don’t know/don’t care. Now I would say it 50% for independence, 30% for the union and 20% don’t know/don’t care.

    290. Meg merrilees says:

      So the big question now is…

      Will (t)Ruthless and Fluffy resign if the Deal includes a border in the Irish Sea???

      I’m not holding my breath – but then again, if the tories rebel and vote down the Deal then Fluffy and (t)Ruthless live to threaten to resign another time. Ha ha ha.

      The same Tories that have turned their back on the Michelin workers – TRACTORS THE LOT OF THEM

    291. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 No, London, the South East and East are the only regions of the UK which contribute more in tax revenue than they receive in public spending
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4534008/Londoners-make-3-000-year-net-contribution-Treasury.html

    292. HYUFD says:

      ScottieDog Banks like Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS, bailed out by the UK taxpayer you mean?

    293. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 Scotland is though less than 10% of the UK population

    294. HYUFD says:

      Sandycraig England obviously does not appear in the figures as they only include exports outside the UK

    295. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland gives the world modern economics then the English have the temerity tell us we can’t count
      Scotland cured them of syphilis by inventing penicillin and they tell us we can’t stand on our own feet after we knocked the idiots out by inventing anaesthetic like chlorform to cure them of their sicknesses, and whaddya know we’re still doing it better

      Those clowns should be the ones thanking us like in what have the Romans ever done for us except Scotland did considerably more for *us* than the Romans ever did

      We could do the list and it’s long and we never stole it from anybody, you can see programmes about it on the Telly which we also invented now the Bastirts use it against us to tell us we’re stupid

      Just a wee *train* of thought, Ooops that’s one of ours too

      Prevarication, now I’ll give them that one

    296. HYUFD says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      UK countries by GVA per capita

      England £27, 100
      Scotland £24,800
      Wales £19,100
      NI £20,000
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_GVA_per_capita

    297. HYUFD says:

      MariaF The 51% of exports from the UK going outside the EU excludes Scotland as Scotland is part of the UK but of course not all exports from the EU will end especially as May has now agreed the outline of the Withdrawal Agreement to enable FTA talks and the transition period

    298. HYUFD says:

      Dave McEwan Hill No mention of the IRA terrorist attacks in NI and mainland GB I see there and the actual polling picture remains No on 48-56%, Yes on 36-46% excluding Don’t Knows
      http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#table

    299. Flying_Scotsman says:

      @Dr Jim
      Let’s hope, when they come round from the anasthetic, that they feel as safe as the bank of England…..Which was also founded by a Scot.

    300. yesindyref2 says:

      Jeez and quoting the daylymail! What a plonker indeed.

      No, London, the South East and East are the only regions of the UK which contribute more in tax revenue than they receive in public spending

      How can I make this simple, economics for dummies in Epping 101? The following figures are illustrative.

      Scotland raises £60 billion revenues. Because income tax is devolved, Scotland gets to keep £10 billion, and sends £50 billion to the UK Treasury.

      The UK Treasury sends back as block grant and VAT around £30 billion. The Scot Gov Spends £40 billion on devolved services. Nett sum = £0 – a balanced budget.

      The UK spends a further £30 billion “on Scotland” including welfare, defence, embassies and so on. £2 billion of this is spend in Scotland, the other £18 billion is spend in London and around. London and around therefore get the benefit of £18 billion which is assigned to Scotland, but spent in London and around.

      The UK Treasury gets at 0.6 economic multiplier (i.e. the benefits to the economy and taxation, NI, VAT, corp tax etc), £12.8 billion in revenues. Scotland gets NONE of this, even though the money is “spent on Scotland”. We’re just charged the £18 billion of spending, with no economic benefit amounting to £12.8 billion assigned to our revenues, which they should be (accruals basis of accounting).

      Scotland is therefore subsidising you in Epping (just in Essex), London and the South-East and East, with monies assigned to us as our spending, but actually spent giving you jobs – maybe even you personally as you work in London, who knows.

      So you are subsidy junkies.

      Do you get it now? No, I thought not.

    301. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 01:11, etc, etc,

      Do you have even an inkling of how ridiculous you appear on here?

      I just wish the Glasgow Empire still existed, or I would book you in for an appearance. We could all take bets on how long it would take before the boos and catcalls started.

      Maybe we should set up a gig for you in The Stand. It would be sure to be a sell-out, though not for the reasons you might think. With your preposterous exceptionalism you are a great promoter for independence.

      So keep it up, we need arrogant self-satisfied gits like you, it’s a riot!

    302. manandboy says:

      Brexit will be either very bad, with a deal, or a disaster with no deal.
      But, in insisting that Brexit can’t be stopped, neither May nor Corbyn, seem too interested in the well-being of the UK population. In Brexit, sound judgement and civic responsibility have seemingly been suspended, causing widespread consternation.
      It appears that political fantasies have overtaken economic realities.
      If so, then the UK has lost its compass, as its leaders have lost their way.
      Opportunities abound.

    303. Essexexile says:

      Breeks @11.28
      Top post. May’s ‘Now is not the time’ was, of course, carefully worded to give the impression that there may be a suitable time in the future for WM to ‘grant’ another ref. They will never do this of course and tbh the polling suggests that it would be an unlikely route to independence anyway.
      With so much bubbling under the surface, a swift break up of the UK by unexpected means is quite possible.
      Also, if we end up with a second EUref it would surely be a defacto iref in the eyes of the ECJ and would frankly be more ‘winable’ in indy terms than a straight iref2.

    304. mr thms says:

      #HYFUD @ 1:18 am

      Your link mentions Extra regio.

      90% of which is in Scottish waters as redefined after the Scotland Act 1998.

      What happens to your ‘league table’ when you add this figure to the figure given for Scotland?

    305. Alastair says:

      So May gives site to Cabinet Ministers and says this is the Brexit deal.
      So our Cabinet don’t know what the final deal is.
      We now live on a one woman Mayarchy.
      Unbelviable.

    306. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim at 1:13am ……. “Scottish inventions.”

      Great post Dr Jim. Material for posters, placards and T-shirts, lol.

      ………………

      Stuff NIreland. Stuff the Union. That’s the way to go.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17221378.leave-campaign-economist-doesnt-give-a-damn-about-union/

    307. Ken500 says:

      Scotland get (average) £30Billion Block grant. (Reduced 10% a year since 2010) instead of increased with inflation etc.Now £3Billion short. £16Billion (or less – now less unemployment?)UK OA Pension and welfare benefits. Ie Scottish taxes. Revenues raised in Scotland pay (UK Gov) OA pensions. It is paid from current revenues. There is no pension/welfare fund, Scotland pat approx 10% of the UK Defence Bill average £4Billion. SNP say it could be done for less. £1/2Billion+ less. No Trident (total waste). Or illegal wars. Or arming Saudi or supporting apartheid Israel. Spreading redundant weapons worldwide. Destroying the world.

      Russia and China are not the aggressors. Neither is the EU. The US/UK are the warmongers.

      Westminster centrist economic policies have ruined Scotlandand and stagnated the economy. Tory high taxes have ruined the Oil & Gas sector, They have worn down the Scottish Oil & Gas sector and are importing Oil & Gas from other places. Fracked gas from the US. Gas from Norway. Nuclear from France.

      Hinkley Point and HS2 are a complete waste of money and will damage the Scottish economy. Over priced and redundant. The Tory/unionist associates slush fund, They have their noses in the trough of public money. Scottish revenues have to pay the loans on the debt. Damaging the Scottish economy.

      The rest of the UK – Westminster – can borrow and spend what they like, Scotland has to make repayment in the debt. Scotland has little borrowing powers to invest. The EU invest in Scotland and give renewable grant etc. The Westminster Gov take from Scotland damaging the economy.

      The wave turbines companies in the North are now being turn away because of lack of UK Gov investment. Losing Scotland a valuable source of revenues and jobs. A change in renewable policies. Cuts in investment in renewables solar, wind and wave. Total ignorance. Wasting £Billion on Hinkley Point which will be years out of date and money.A complete waste of time and money. Scottish revenues are paying for it.

      While investment in renewables. Much cheaper, cleaner and more sustainable are not forthcoming The technology could be invented and developed in Scotland and sold around the world. Just the same as oil & gas technology but cleaner and cheaper. The Westminster Gov blocks it. Cuts promised grants and funding for CCS projects, Reneging on promised investments which have to be found elsewhere. Ruining the UK economy.

      Fracked Gas tax free development in the rest of the UK. Scottish Oil & gas taxed at 40%. Scotland pays a higher cost for fuel and energy despite being in surplus and nearer the sources. It is colder. A total tax on the whole Scottish economy. Holds Scotland back. Unit price in Scotland should be 10% cheaper for parity.

      The UK Gov have ruined the fishing and farming sector in Scotland. The fishing industry should have been using bigger nets for higher quotas and improved terms and conditions. They have been throwing dead fish back for years ruining stocks and unsustainable, The £Millionaire owners have been ruining their own industry, pleading poverty, lying and blaming everyone else. Including the SNP – Scottish Gov who had absolutely little representation and nothing to do with it. Lack of powers. Reserved.

      The Westminster unionists, Tory unionists took the extra EU Cap funding intended for the poorer Scottish farmers and gave it to the wealthier farmers in the south because their quota was reduced, Anothef totally illegal act. The Tory minister actually said ‘Better together’as he was doing it. When the Scottish reps LibDem, SNP and Labour? were begging him not to do it. It was in the telly. The Parliamentary Channel. There for all to see. The total blooming cheek of it. The Tory turns the other cheek.

      Hammond as Defence minster squirmed and sniggered at the mention of a Scottish Navy based in Scotland at a Commons committee, but leaving redundant nuclear subs stacked up at Rosyth. The maintenance work was taken to Davenport at greater cost. Unemployment Davenport 3%. Unemployment Govan was 15% at the time,

      Illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud, total musnanagement and misappropriation of Scottish funds by Westminster Treasury costs Scotland on average. £20Billion a year. Scotland could be on par with Norway etc and raise £80Billion.instead of £60Billion with more money raised to invest in growth and public essential services.

      There was absolutely no need for austerity, It was just an attempt by Tory/unionist to increase the wealth of the wealthier and cut the revenues of the poorer. Increasing the biggest wealth gap in the world. Leaving vulnerable people homeless and starving. A coarse act of wonton badness. Illegal and totally unnecessary and wrong.

      The Westminster unionists cut £13Billion a year from NHS/Education and Welfare. Intended from 2015 to 2020. Ruining public essential services, The tax take has increased £95Billion (UK) in a year. There was absolutely no need for the cuts. The SNP Gov has done what it can to mitigate the cuts. May and her associates are a complete and utter disgrace.

      Brexit is a disaster and will bring the Tories/unionists down. A great elaborate farce being played out in public while £Billions of public money is syphoned off into the Tory/unionists thieving pockets. Everyone else is paying for it. The rest of the Westminster unionist sycophants are no better.Trying to ruin the world economy. Independence can’t come soon enough to stop them.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

    308. Macart says:

      Poop’s hitting the fan now. Every faction imaginable in Westminster is up in full on hoolie mode. Disaster capitalist Brexiteers, hard Brexiteers, soft Brexiteers, political opportunists who don’t give a wossiname what the issue is and no Brexit at all.

      May has a bad day at work looming and there isn’t a hope in hell she’ll please everyone, or indeed anyone.

      Been listening to and reading the news feeds. One big fear raised from ‘May’s’ (sigh) actions, is the fear of the break up of the UK. The poor dears don’t really get it yet. The UK is already broken and it began long before May took the big chair. Fact is the folk asking the question, or making the point, are the ones who initiated the political break up process. Not entirely sure they understand irony tbh. Mind you, there are others posing the question who know perfectly well what they initiated. They simply require a scapegoat to carry their responsibility for them.

      They truly are an appalling bunch. We WILL be better off without them running our lives.

    309. ScottieDog says:

      @HyFUD
      Yep all the banks REGULATED by the FCA in London – where most of RBS employees are. Estimated now that the city of London is about a 4.5trillion burden on the U.K. economy.

      Glad you agree that the city of London is funded by the state though. That’s a start.

    310. ScottieDog says:

      @HYFUD
      “Yesindyref2 No, London, the South East and East are the only regions of the UK which contribute more in tax revenue than they receive in public spending”

      They contribute more tax revenue courtesy of the state which put the money in in the first place, you asserted that in your previous post.

      It’s a like saying a lotto winner is self made.

    311. Nana says:

      Outlaw King – The Robert Bruce bio pic, has ignited calls for national Scottish Film Studios to be built.
      But is the funding for a film industry there and aren’t there other new big infrastructure projects to be undertaken?
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/204535157107853/?t=2

      https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/11/were-about-to-see-difference-between.html

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/13/more-reader-misery-for-scots-as-news-misrepresentation-hits-new-low/

      Marine Harvest sees ‘bright future’ in Scotland
      http://archive.is/KTvoi

    312. Nana says:

      FM responds to Peston’s facebook post

      Indeed. PM’s approach would take Scotland out of the single market (despite our 62% remain vote) but leave us competing for investment with Northern Ireland that is effectively still in it.
      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1062608192327372800

      Analysts point the finger at EU exit as Eastern European workers plunge – and they are warning of the future for our NHS
      http://archive.is/Y40k5

      https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/facts-behind-eu-withdrawal-draft-agreement-885186.html

      https://theovertake.com/~beta/government-misleading-stats/

    313. Maria F says:

      HYUFD says:
      14 November, 2018 at 1:20 am
      “The 51% of exports from the UK going outside the EU excludes Scotland”

      The 51% excludes Scotland but includes an awful lot of countries out of the EU to which the UK can export thanks to the trade agreements that the EU has with those countries. The division EU/non EU is another massive smokescreen here to make the real problem England is facing a tad smaller. We should be including within that “EU” percentage simply ALL the countries with which the uK trades as part of the EU and making use of the trade agreements the EU has. This will be lost if the UK leaves the EU without a deal and quite possibly with a dodgy deal.

      “but of course not all exports from the EU will end”

      If not all the trade with the EU will be lost, then there is nothing to support the idea you are peddling here that the trade of Scotland with England will come to a halt should Scotland become an independent country. I am afraid you have now walked the entire circle, HYUFD.

      As I said above, talking about percentages of EU/non EU exports is a smokescreen. The independence of Scotland is a predictable matter. It is a case of when, nor if. Given the support for the EU in Scotland, it is also predictable that an independent Scotland will remain attached to the EU one way or another. This means, at all effects, that the current deal the England MP crooks in the UK gov cabinet are negotiating with the EU will determine how much of the exports of England with Scotland survive. The trade Scotland/England and vice versa tomorrow is today in those crooks hands, and that is that.

    314. Breeks says:


      TheItalianJob says:
      13 November, 2018 at 11:49 pm
      @Breeks At 11.28pm

      ….It may very well be that such a breach will come to pass and the legality of Scotland’s sovereignty will indeed lead to Scotland declaring we have left the Union without the requirement for a referendum…

      If a contract or treaty is formally breached, it ceases to exist and cannot be resurrected. There can be no partial redemption or selective preservation of a partial contract, the whole thing ceases to be. The ONLY way to “undo” a breached contract is to agree a new one. Scotland would require no action to “leave” the Union, because from the very instant of dissolution, there would be no Union to leave.

      It will be curious to observe how Scotland’s Unionist community reacts to the Union collapsing absolutely as a direct consequence of the unforced actions and hubris of the incompetent UK government, made real through the international recognition of a disinterested and impartial third party Legislature, rather than any destructive initiative instigated by Holyrood.

      They won’t be able to “pin it” on the SNP, because “blame” for the dissolution of the UK will be the responsibility of Westminster. If the Unionist community wants to froth at the mouth and throw things, they should take it up with the instigators down in London.

    315. Liz g says:

      Maria F @ 7.52
      Well put Maria..
      That’s something we need to get more widely known too.
      All we are going to hear ( and it’s already started) is look how difficult it was to get out of the EU…It’s going to be sooo much worse to end the UK, best not to try!!!!
      All said in the BBC Royal Correspondents voice (so we think it’s real)

      Well … EH NAW , stick with Europe,as per our vote to do so, and all the trading arrangements are already there… we just need to organise our resources returning to our own care..
      And most of what’s ours is easily identifiable, we already have a Parliament, a Leagal system and most of the other civic structures in place…
      But mair tae the point… Unlike the Brexit shambles…
      Our Government does have a plan… many of them
      So we are good to go … we don’t need no stinking backstop…..

    316. Breeks says:

      Just to add, there are some poignant parallels with an incompetent UK government failing to negotiate and compromise for it’s exit from the EU, squandering every opportunity on the way through its own blinkered delusion, and ultimately default to the vacuous failure of a No Deal, no agreed Transition, “cold turkey” Brexit.

      Westminster’s abject failure to engage with the European process and Constitution is mirrored to a significant degree by a very similar failure to engage with Scotland’s due process and Constitution, and just as the UK is being abandoned to a cold turkey Brexit, so too, it risks a similar cold turkey dissolution of the United Kingdom.

      Just as Europe has been preparing contingencies to cauterise the injury of a no-Deal Brexit, Scotland should really be doing likewise and preparing for a no-Deal dissolution of the United Kingdom. It might come upon us at breakneck speed too…

      The Westminster Government is wearing a bucket on its head, and not listening to anybody. It is abdicating the power to control or even influence events, until that failure is overtaken by a greater competence. The UK’s fealty to the EU Constitution is one such greater competence, but Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution is another.

      If the UK thinks a hard Brexit is going to hurt, just wait until the penny drops about Scotland.

    317. Golfnut says:

      @ Breeks 11:28pm and 7:59 am.

      I think you are just about bang on with all of your points. The SG and the SNP in Westminster are slowly crossing t’s and dotting i’s. Questioning Fraser in HoC yesterday on the Supreme Court was a case in point.

    318. Fred says:

      @ Nana, thanx for the lynx, Jackie Burd has mair faces than the toon clock!

      Any Wings soothsayers care to predict which ‘glish city will put to the torch first?

    319. Dan Huil says:

      As usual Scotland is being ignored. Time for Scotland to go on the political attack.

    320. Sinky says:

      Call Kaye on BBC Radio Scotland discussing Brexit and Scotland

    321. TheItalianJob says:

      @Breeks 8.31am

      My thoughts too. The constitutional crisis of Scotland leaving the U.K. is going to cause a great deal of dissent in the WM government and the same type of chaos we are seeing with Brexit.

      When the division of U.K. “Assets” are to be decided you can bet the rUk will try to hide/decieve and keep as much of the shared “Assets” as possible. Just look at the recent Tory MP who claimed that N. Sea Oil was U.K. and not Scotland’s alone. So they rUK will look at getting some share of this although circa 98% of the current U.K. oil and gas lies in Scottish territorial waters.

      I see many issues maybe having to be ruled by International bodies but this is what I would expect from WM anyway.

      We will need to be well prepared for many scenarios but we have proven legal experts, including our own law (thank goodness) to negotiate away from the Union in terms favourable to Scotland.

    322. Ottomanboi says:

      No doubt in the Great British democratic tradition the quasi-autonomous, colonial dependencies will have been faxed (HiTech dontchaknow) the 500 page doc. for their amusement. Such confort to know you’re valued…..sigh!
      Anybody know how to do origami?

    323. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 All areas of the UK including Essex pay taxes that fund the Westminster government machine

    324. HYUFD says:

      ScottieDog RBS was based in Edinburgh and Salmond encouraged its overexpansion like taking over ABN Amro

    325. Nana says:

      Morning Fred, so far I’m having fun watching the reactions to the ‘deal or no deal’

      IDS tells TM to think again

      Heseltine says the deal is the worst ever

      Bridgen says dire just dire and when asked if he’d read it said “No”

      and Boris said the sovereignty which the big bad EU took from them before the ref was actually not but that it will be taken now with TM’s bad deal.

      It’s a Rubik’s Brochan out there this morning 🙂

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2018/11/13/brexit-down-to-the-wire/

      https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1114/1010773-brexit_barnier/

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/11/14/nothing-will-be-the-same-again-whatever-the-cabinet-decides-today/

    326. Phydaux says:

      Another great wee video from Phantom Power. I feel humbled by Clive Ponting’s courage and determination and deep moral obligation to act as he did, risking everything.He is truly one of the good people and so welcome in Scotland.

      Saw The Outlaw King at the Filmhouse….panoramic views of bonny Scotland, bloody battle scenes and victory at Loudoun Hill in Ayrshire and a history lesson from the Scottish Wars of Independence ( never taught at my school ) Robert the Bruce was an inspirational leader and canny military strategist who issued a call to the people of Scotland to fight for their freedom from England.Glory awaits no-one.You have to go and find it.

      The cinema was jam-packed….spontaneous applause at the end…I almost stood up to shout “ Remember to vote the right way next time! “ Speaking of which, not long now.The House of Delusions is falling apart. Who knows, our time to choose may surprise us yet, when we seem to have the least room to manoeuvre.

    327. HYUFD says:

      MariaF The EU currently has no trade deal with China, India or the USA to name a few

    328. Robert Peffers says:

      Thepnr says: 13 November, 2018 at 6:47 pm:

      ” … Haven’t read any of your shite for a long time either.”

      Strange then that you reply to something you claim not to have read. You won’t break my heart by ignoring me or anyone else but you do clutter up threads by judging others as trolls. Leave that job to the Rev Stu and just ignore me, or those you judge to be trolls.

      My point was that you do not have the right to moderate anyone’s comments on Wings. That right remains only with Rev Stu.

      If I, or anyone else chooses to engage with any other Wings commenter is not up to you. Like everyone else you can scroll on past posts you do not want to read.

      Furthermore, simply by commenting about your personal judgment that another commenter is a troll you are cluttering up the blog with totally unnecessary claptrap and disrupting the topic of the thread far more than those you pass judgement upon.

    329. Dan Huil says:

      This so-called united kingdom is obviously dysfunctional. Time to kill it off completely.

    330. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I’m glad that HYUFD is continually pointing out how ill served Scotland and Scotland’s economy is by being part of the malfunctioning, London centric and debt ridden UK economy.
      Oddly he does not draw the obvious conclusion.

      Getting very boring.

      Seems to imagine that talking Scotland down gets points.

    331. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 13 November, 2018 at 6:48 pm:

      ” … Deal or no deal, we’re already fully aware Brexit is an economic and constitutional catastrophe …

      Very well said, Macart, a well thought out and balanced comment.

      Now is not the time for action in haste – leave it, at least until we see just what is going on, to the official Scottish Government. We elected them to do a job – let them get on with it.

      I’m reading reports that the SG have things in hand and they are far more likely to know what is going on than we are.

    332. Ottomanboi says:

      The Germans have technology, innovation and manufacturing, the Brits have a monarchy, Fortnums and the City….perspective from across the Rhein.
      The BritState’s future is behind it. We want out of this decaying edifice, toxic with imperial nostalgia.
      Leave the Miss Haversham of Europe to her dusty memories.

    333. gus1940 says:

      In last night’s Regimental History program on The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards it was stated that The Scots Greys under the command of Bloody Tam Dalyell managed to slaughter large numbers of Scottish rebels implying some sort of heroic exercise..

      The alleged ‘rebels’ were in fact The Covenanters who were defending Scotland’s religious freedom.

    334. Breeks says:

      Nana says:
      14 November, 2018 at 7:40 am

      Outlaw King – The Robert Bruce bio pic, has ignited calls for national Scottish Film Studios to be built.
      But is the funding for a film industry there and aren’t there other new big infrastructure projects to be undertaken?
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/204535157107853/?t=2

      Ha Ha! Thanks Nana.

      I watched Outlaw King a second time, and for some inexplicable reason, I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around. I think I was perhaps a little apprehensive first time around, preying there weren’t any cringewothy gaffes. I didn’t “not” enjoy the first time, I still thought it was great, but it was more of a “proof reading” than a sit back, feet up, spectacle to watch.

      Second time around I loved it. I think it’s really good, and I heartily recommend it to all.

    335. Bob Mack says:

      Hyufd your an ibiot and talk nonsense. If you bother to check you will find the EU is China’s largest trading partner,

      Remember TTIP ? America wants a deal buddy.

      India also trades with the EU.

      Where do you actually educate yourself?

      Daily Mail?

    336. Elmac says:

      Lots of HYA FUD nonsense of late. For those of the same vintage I recommend Dionne Warwick’s “Walk on By”. Whenever you see those initials just change “Walk” to “Scroll” and sing along as you skip to the next comment. Works well for me but I can get some funny looks on public transport.

    337. Luigi says:

      Breeks says:

      14 November, 2018 at 7:59 am

      TheItalianJob says:
      13 November, 2018 at 11:49 pm
      @Breeks At 11.28pm

      ….It may very well be that such a breach will come to pass and the legality of Scotland’s sovereignty will indeed lead to Scotland declaring we have left the Union without the requirement for a referendum…

      If a contract or treaty is formally breached, it ceases to exist and cannot be resurrected. There can be no partial redemption or selective preservation of a partial contract, the whole thing ceases to be. The ONLY way to “undo” a breached contract is to agree a new one. Scotland would require no action to “leave” the Union, because from the very instant of dissolution, there would be no Union to leave.

      It will be curious to observe how Scotland’s Unionist community reacts to the Union collapsing absolutely as a direct consequence of the unforced actions and hubris of the incompetent UK government, made real through the international recognition of a disinterested and impartial third party Legislature, rather than any destructive initiative instigated by Holyrood.

      They won’t be able to “pin it” on the SNP, because “blame” for the dissolution of the UK will be the responsibility of Westminster. If the Unionist community wants to froth at the mouth and throw things, they should take it up with the instigators down in London.

      If it comes to that, Breeks (and in this climate, nothing can be ruled out), I hope that the SG has a contingency plan to secure at least some of the MS media. We certainly don’t need a rampant BBC setting the narrative and spouting endless guff in the ensuing chaos. Social media (and mobiles) will help, but the older people in particular will need to be assured and told the truth. WM won’t go down without a fight and things can turn nasty very quickly. people will need real info – quickly.

    338. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 13 November, 2018 at 7:11 pm:

      ” … Nicola should in the very future return to the real issue which is independence for Scotland as her only concern.”

      Whatever makes you think that Nicola had ever had other than Scottish Independence in the front of her mind, Bob Mack?

      The Scottish Government at Holyrood and our chosen representatives in both the Westminster and EU parliaments are there to do a job and they too are focused upon Scottish Independence.

      In order to be there to gain Scottish independence it is a necessary factor that they retain their places in government by being the best we have in running Scotland and representing Scotland’s interests in the Unions of the UK and EU.

      They must have the trust and votes of the electorate in order to be in office. Then, while being in office, have the main objective of independence present at Holyrood, Westminster and Brussels.

    339. Nana says:

      @Breeks

      I loved it and will likely watch again.

      Good review here by GB

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2018/11/13/outlaw-king-a-review/

    340. Fred says:

      @ gus1940, spot-on about the “Earl of Mar’s Greybreeks!” must watch the prog’. Think they came up against another Scottish regiment, must be the Cameronians!

    341. Breeks says:


      TheItalianJob says:
      14 November, 2018 at 9:09 am

      …We will need to be well prepared for many scenarios but we have proven legal experts, including our own law (thank goodness) to negotiate away from the Union in terms favourable to Scotland…

      Agreed. I noted some comments yesterday speculating about the odds on actual civil war. Thankfully, my own insticts suggest we are still a good few clicks away from anything like that.

      I don’t think we’ll be so lucky when it comes to avoiding ill-tempered protracted negotiations with Westminster regarding UK assets. Trident springs to mind immediately.

      I don’t know however… Never say never. I’ve said it before, but stranger things might happen than an English Parliament floundering outside Europe with serious tangible difficulties and an angry unstable population MIGHT have a change of heart, and begin to recognise that an Indy Scotland isn’t the enemy it supposes, and could actually be an effective, face saving intermediary between the EU and a more penitent English economy that knows it is in deep trouble.

      I don’t think English EU membership will be on the cards for a very long time, but I do think the vestigial remains of cross border trade between Scotland and England could, let me stress could, provide a framework for a trading buffer zone between England and the EU, – just so nobody in Liverpool is actually starving as a consequence of Brexit, sending their kids down a mine, or using the wife’s shampoo to make brake fluid…

    342. hackalumpoff says:

      A little light relief, with a Superb tweet from @Yes_Dumfries

      https://twitter.com/Yes_Dumfries/status/1062639641289986048

    343. Ottomanboi says:

      News from the real world:
      https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/10/germany-and-china-sign-deals-lobby-against-us-trade-tariffs.html
      The Brits still think the world will beat a path to their door after Brexit.
      The Anglo-saxon delusion….

    344. manandboy says:

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/10/18/the-uk-is-heading-towards-a-frightening-constitutional-crisis-over-brexit/

      “As Vernon Bogdanor, one of the country’s leading constitutional scholars, put it in an article in the Financial Times on 9 December 2016:

      “Our exit from the EU depends upon the continuing consent of the people. The notion of finality is quite alien to the spirit of democratic politics. For it must always remain open for a sovereign people to reassess its verdict”.

      The one exception being a country’s Independence which rests solidly on the certain and settled will of the people to be independent in perpetuity. No country has ever back-tracked on its Independence. A record which calls into question the ‘result’ of the Scottish Independence Referendum in 2014.

    345. Fred says:

      @ Sinky, who knows if the Panel is guilty or not? mebbes God? Is the Crown’s case Proven or Not-Proven?

    346. Frank Gillougley says:

      Hackalumpoff 10.10

      From here to Ecclefechan, indeed! Brilliant!

      On a small but beautiful note, among the bigger picture, of course I am eagerly looking forward to these two (Davidson & Mundell) being repeatedly asked by the Scottish Media, why they will not be resigning?

      Oh well, I guess not then.

      Sorry, I forgot, – I’ll just get myself to the back of the bus and shut up.

    347. Dr Jim says:

      Everybody seems to know what’s happening except Scotlands government and that should tell everybody all they need to know

      Right now the most pressing point in this whole debacle is the fear in the British Nationalists on how to handle their continued ownership of Scotland the fatted calf, Mr Mogg and Mr Johnson couldn’t give a monkeys about Northern Ireland and would be quite happy for that problem as they see it to be long gone border or no border, it means nothing to them

      The DUP who don’t represent Scotland and who Scotland can’t vote for anyway is running the show and they don’t even represent their own Northern Ireland who voted to remain

      The only people in Scotland who want Brexit are British Nationalists because they think somehow it’ll cement Englands position over Scotland and Scotland will never be in a position to leave the UK because England post Brexit will set about dismantling devolution and suck the rest of the life from Scotlands economy to feed Tory voters in the South of England

      History tells us when England can’t control England destroys, they’d rather burn a country to the ground to rebuild it in their own fashion than allow democracy to flourish, the word co-operation to all English governments is meaningless because they always always find ways to break that word at the first available opportunity

      My father used to say *If there’s a tanner in it they’ll make sure they take it from us*

      There’s no Empire left to destroy now they’ve done it they’ve burst and raped every country they’ve been involved with there’s only us left

    348. Robert Peffers says:

      @wullie says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:00 pm:

      ” … Aye, I can see Scots law protecting us. I wish I had some examples from the past. Cant see what they have done over the last three hundred years or so, except Lord Cooper.”

      You are way out with your understanding of the matter, wullie,

      Like the succession of Scottish politicians since 1 May 1707 the Scottish legal profession is restrained in what they can do.

      Neither can act unless there is the demand for them to do so by the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      So you miss your bulls eye by aiming at the wrong targets. What chance would the legal profession have by acting without a majority of the people demanding they take action?

      I’ve told the story before on Wings how I befriended an old, semi-retired King’s Council way back in the late 1940s/early 1950s, (it was King’s Council back then not QC as now).

      Anyway the old guy was a very definite Scottish Nationalist and he gave me lots of great information that I’ve waited the rest of my life to see beginning to emerge exactly as he described it would.

      The point is that the Scottish Legal profession’s hands are tied, as are those of the SG, until there is a majority of the public demanding they act.

      If either the SG or legal profession was to act without the legally sovereign people’s demands it would not only be illegal but would be distained to fail.

      Imagine if Nicola was to unilaterally declare Scottish independence before gaining a majority of the people’s support. The first thing is that the Westminster Establishment would be legally justified to declare military law in Scotland and would get backing from the international powers and courts.

      The point is that, as Scottish law is independent, and it states that the people are legally sovereign, then only the people, (or their legally chosen representatives), have the legal right to make treaties or to break them.

      To date no political party or lawyers have had that authority to act on the people’s behalf.

      It has always been a legal requirement that for Scotland to end the union there has to be a clear demand from the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      So there you are, wullie, set your sights to aim upon converting unionist Scots to want Scottish independence and then, and only then, start aiming at the legal and political professions if they then fail to act.

    349. manandboy says:

      A reminder that Westminster writes and rewrites the rules to suit themselves. But it’s still democracy – or at least it’s the Unionist version.

      Roland October 19, 2018
      With reference to the 37% of Leave voters, this situation is particularly galling for Scots. In 1979 a small majority of voters in Scotland voted for a Scottish Assembly. This majority did not achieve the 40% figure of the total electorate which was a requirement of the Act. The Act was subsequently repealed. An Assembly which would have had very limited powers was denied yet Brexit which will have a profound impact on the UK is chaotically progressing.

      Unlike, the Scottish referenda in 1979, 1997, 2014 there was clarity as to what Scots were voting for. As noted above, with 5 months to go, Leave Voters have yet to know what they actually voted for.

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/10/18/the-uk-is-heading-towards-a-frightening-constitutional-crisis-over-brexit/

    350. Lenny Hartley says:

      Got confused by the Fuds take over of the blog and posted this link on an old article,
      What we have is Civil War (Copywrite Axle Rose 🙂 )
      https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/17210879.tory-partys-brexit-sheep-blasted-by-landowner/?ref=fbshr

    351. Cubby says:

      The BBC is giving it big licks on how they are helping the Citizens of the UK identify fake news. Ha Ha.

      It’s a bit like the Mafia running training courses on how to identify criminals.

      The BBC one of the worlds best propaganda broadcasters.

    352. Elmac says:

      It’s not so long since one of TM’s inane sayings was “No deal is better than a bad deal”. Well now she is pushing a very bad deal and insisting that her cabinet back her as the alternative would be a disastrous no deal. Another U turn, another lie. Can’t make my mind up whether she is thoroughly evil or just thick as mince. Probably both on reflection.

    353. Cubby says:

      The posts by the Britnats on Wings should come with a government health warning. Read them and you risk your head becoming full of lies and misinformation.

      Britnats are all liars.

    354. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      Good review here by GB

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2018/11/13/outlaw-king-a-review/

      A very enjoyable movie. GB’s review is the best I’ve read.

      Reviews by English critics have to be taken with a bucket of salt. Subconscious English Nationalism runs deep.

      I definitely think the movie contained some politically motivated nods and winks to recent and current events.

    355. Dr Jim says:

      Even the BBC are still punting the nonsense that Scotland is a part of the UK, it’s not, Scotland *joined* a political Union and we can unjoin it in exactly the same way as England has decided to *unjoin* the EU

      We hear every day from Scottish British Nationalists that all *Sturgeon* wants is control of Scotland, well yes because it’s a country and it should be in the control of its own people, but that’s the problem with the Scottish British Nationalists they don’t want the people who are not them in control and we all know the reason why

    356. manandboy says:

      Commenting on ‘The Deal’, Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn said: “We will look at the details of what has been agreed when they are available, but from what we know of the shambolic handling of these negotiations, this is unlikely to be a good deal for the country.

      Eh, Jeremy, which country is that you’re referring to again?

      Shambolic applies to more than the Brexit negotiations.

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17220946.outrage-over-eu-and-uk-agreed-brexit-deal-text/?ref=ar

    357. Dr Jim says:

      It’s abstainer day for Labour again

    358. Cactus says:

      Hey Lenny Hartley, you called it… allow me:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4zrye7otI

      A good mornin’ Scotland.

      It’s the 11th hour.

      Click clock.

    359. manandboy says:

      The term ‘The United Kingdom’ really is way past its sell-by date. Time to bin it.

    360. Alba Laddie says:

      Once this Brexit “deal” unravels and the Tory careerists start jockeying for position and the Tory Party implodes, then Nicola Sturgeon needs to call the 2nd Indy ref, and make an overt play to businesses who deal with the EU to back it and relocate their HQs to Scotland.

      Once the naysayers begin to feel some real discomfort about their long-term job and prosperity prospects, then Independence will be a shoe-in.

    361. Golfnut says:

      Outlaw King was brilliant, watched it again last night, you always miss nuances the first time round. Anybody notice the EU symbol in the credits.

      If there is just one thing we can thank the ‘ Parcel of Rogues ‘ for regarding the Treaty of Union, it is the ring fencing of Scots law.

      All of the current and past propaganda relating to Scotlands place within the Union, denigrating our politicians, our own elected Government and the contempt and malice directed at the people of Scotland have but one purpose. To convince the people of Scotland that they have no power, that Westminster is all powerful. Scottish Constitutional law says differently, but only now are people beginning to realise the significance of the Declaration of Arbroath and the Treaty of Union.

      In my opinion the last chance for the establishment to get out of the Treaty of Union unscathed was 2014, and I wouldn’t be surprised upon realising there grip on Scotland is weakening that now the establishment are pushing for a no deal exit from the Treaty of Union as well as a no deal Brexit.

    362. Lenny Hartley says:

      According to Manx Radio news , one of the Top Tips for most popular toy for Christmas is a Flying Unicorn, im sure it will be very popular in Scotland ?

    363. Nana says:

      Europeam arrest warrant in relation to Scottish criminal justice

      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1062660174006095872

      The Irish government has said it does not want to see any “hardening” of the border in the Irish Sea, ahead of a crunch cabinet meeting in Dublin on Brexit on Wednesday morning.
      http://archive.is/NHsn4

      It took a UN envoy to hear how austerity is destroying lives
      http://archive.is/uuljB

      http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2018/11/boris-thousand-year-brexit-lie.html?m=1

      That’s all for now

    364. manandboy says:

      We need a very precise and accurate term to describe this Brexit deal, which in David Mundell’s opinion is “what the Government has been working for all this time, to get a deal, and negotiators have worked incredibly hard to get us to this point..” (Poor Fluffy, he’s no right in the heid)

      How’s about ‘Fudge’.

    365. Cactus says:

      Good morning Scotland.

      You gotta Wednesday Dateline 2018.

    366. manandboy says:

      The Brexit deal: Nothing to worry about – really.

      “A nervousness has descended in Dublin over the cabinet meeting in Westminster with a virtual media blackout on the subject of Brexit on Wednesday morning.
      Ireland has said that Brexit is the most damaging event in its history with the lucrative £56.5bn (€65bn) a year trade with the UK at risk if there are barriers in the form of tariffs or border checks.
      Sources said the government wants to stay “below the radar” and see how Theresa May’s cabinet meeting plays out and whether she will survive without any resignations.

      It has been widely reported that there is just one “backstop” to ensure the Irish border remains open in the withdrawal agreement.”

      http://archive.is/NHsn4

    367. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:29 pm:

      ” … Xaracen Scotland receives less in net subsidy than Wales and Northern Ireland and the North and Midlands to be fair but only London, the SouthEast and East make a net contribution to the UK Treasury,

      Absolute claptrap, HYUDF, and you know it.

      In the first place Scotland subsidises the entire United Kingdom and the United Kingdom subsidises London and I’ve shot that claim from you down before on Wings.

      Let’s just apply some facts and a little logic.

      Facts :- The Scottish Per Capita GDP is not only normally higher than the UK as a whole but is normally higher than that of the country of England.

      Now for the logical argument – When comparing Per Capita GDP it is essential to compare like for like. Your argument does not do so.

      You compare a city area with a whole country. A city is densely populated and thus contains more producers of revenue than a country that contains rural and non-productive scenic areas like mountain ranges, moorlands and large areas of water.

      Secondly as, “London City”, is the site of, “The City of London”, together with the United Kingdoms Treasury and Civil Services it sucks in the revenues from the entire United Kingdom. There are registered Head Offices for companies in London of companies that do business UK wide. These earn profits UK wide but pay tax and taxable dividends as from London.

      Your arguments are thus a deception.

    368. Cactus says:

      BREAKING NEWS: Scotland is fucking excellent!

      Let’s do this Wednesday hehe haha 😉

      1400 hours+

    369. Macart says:

      @Nana 9.16 am

      That’s how I read proceedings during the night Nana and twatter has lit up with some right grumpy folk out there of EVERY political persuasion.

      Take a wild guess at who hasn’t lost the plot?

      Mibbies me, but I’d say that’s because they’re working to a process of their own. One with at least a.n. other, no, two contingencies I can think of. 😉

    370. Capella says:

      Wikipedia has a page on Outlaw King. It had been heavily edited on Sunday morning. They had a list of “Historical Inaccuracies” of a very petty nature mostly, such as “x took place on a Tuesday and not a Monday” etc etc.

      Then on Sunday night the list of inaccuracies itself disappeared.

      I think we can conclude it is causing some consternation among the unionist online watch brigade.

      I enjoyed it and noted many references to our situation which will not be apparent to many viewers. The music is particularly apt.

    371. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:35 pm:

      ” … The largest single consumer of Scotch whisky and gin outside Scotland is England (the USA has its own whisky like Jack Daniels).”

      Absolute claptrap! In the first place we are not talking about, “whiskey”, we are talking about, “Whisky”, a.k.a., “Scotch”.

      ” … England on its own would be the 7th largest economy in the world, Scotland the 46th.”

      More claptrap. “England, on its own”? What does that actually mean, HYUFD?

      England, on its own is the country of England but there is no parliament of the country of England and no figures are published for the country of England alone. The English figures are extrapolated from figures of funding and returns for, “The United Kingdom”, for only England is funded directly as, “The United Kingdom”, by the Westminster Ministries. Every other country gets funded by a Block Grant but England’s accounts are thus those of, “The United Kingdom”, and these accounts contain such as revenues from, “Extra Regio Territories”, and, for example, up to 98% of oil & gas revenues lie totally in Scottish territorial waters. Then there is such as, “Crown Estate”, revenues what are aggregated but include the crown estates in Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland.

      The Westminster fiddled accountancy methods have been sussed out and known for many decades.

    372. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This has already been on OT but it seems that no-one noticed it.

      Yes Hub in Kilmarnock is a well established, vital resource for the indy movement. Please help the modest crowdfund as linked below – looks like they could be getting very busy quite soon. Always looking for volunteers.

      😉

      https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/yes-east-ayrshire-crowdfunder-2018

    373. Dr Jim says:

      @Capella

      Aye but Richard Todd and Dickie Attenborough won all the real wars for real and they were all accurate depictions of greatness and British fortitude standing *alone* against the forces of darkness and bad people which all foreigners are of course

    374. Bob Mack says:

      STRONG and STABLE. Remind me where I heard that?

      I think a high rise block made out of wet bread would show more strength.

      Anybody fancy opening a book on the outcomes? Endless possibilities.

    375. Cubby says:

      Outlaw King, Grousebeater review and Watsons book

      If you have not seen the movie I would not read the Grousebeater review until afterwards. I generally like Grousebeater articles but this one on the movie OutlawKing kept mixing up what he understood the history was with what happened in the movie with similarities to the present day political situation. Major spoiler alert plus confusion as to what is actually in the film. Not his best.

      As he watched the movie in a cinema and said the movie was 20 mins longer than the Netflix version it explained some points to me. One of the points was scenes in the preview which were not in the Netflix version e.g. Climbing up ladders on the castle wall.

      The first thing I would say is it is a movie not a documentary. It is a very good movie with the added benefit that it will pissof any Britnats who watch it. I suspect most won’t as they like to keep closed minds and believe that all kings were English. Grousebeater gives it 5 star – no problem with that.

      Britnats in the media are dissing it as being not historically accurate – they would wouldn’t they – but it is a movie not a documentary. The broad brush of the movie is accurate but some small details have probably been changed to facilitate the movie making. Of course the self same Britnats never complain about other (rule britannia) movies not being historically accurate.

      As far as this Fiona Watson who keeps being dragged out to say it is all wrong etc I for one will not be buying her book for Xmas and I will be making it clear to my family I do not want it as a present. Will Britnats buy her book – I doubt it. Her marketing strategy seems misguided.

    376. Fred says:

      Our very own Donald Anderson has the Long Letter in the National & very good it is too!

    377. galamcennalath says:

      Golfnut says:

      Outlaw King …. you always miss nuances the first time round.

      Indeed. Layer upon layer of subtlety and detail.

      The coats of arms are accurate. Worth knowing them because you know who’s who when they get covered in mud and blood! Robert with his royal lion, his brother with Bruce arms, MacDonald’s galley. And of course Douglas’s three stars before he earned the ‘braveheart’ which later added when he took Bruce’s heart on crusade.

      One nice piece of detail caught my attention. As the big battle is about to begin, the rain pisses down. As the fighting proceeds and Bruce gets the upper hand, the sun breaks through. The sky turns blue. Nice touch.

      Blue skies and sunshine are just what we need for IndyRef2day!

    378. call me dave says:

      Sky news panel has a representative on from the three big parties to discuss the breaking news at PM Q’s….Oh wait! No SNP person.

      Suck it up some more for a wee while yet Scotland. 🙁

      First sentence included ‘this country’ … See us darn South!

    379. geeo says:

      This is how i see it, if there are technical flaws in this opinion piece, i an happy to be corrected for sake of accuracy (Job for oor Mr Peffers?)

      Anyhoo…here goes.

      ……….

      WM appointed Supreme Court still dragging its heels with the EU continuity Bill verdict, no doubt told to do so by their political masters, to try avoid further problems for WM at this time.

      Treeza may have a ‘deal’ but she really does not, not until it is approved and there seems little hope of that at the moment.

      Also, the Holyrood EU Continuity Bill verdict is waiting to detonate from under the feet of WM, to devastating effect.

      Scotsgov have already won that case, regardless of verdict.

      Rule with WM and the SC has to set aside the express terms of the Act of Union which STATES Scots Law is protected forever (Article 19).

      The Devolution (Scotland) Act would also have to be set aside if the SC rules with WM as it CLEARLY states that “What is not SPECIFICALLY reserved is DEVOLVED.

      If the SC rules with Scotsgov, as it must, to be legally competent, then that effectively stops Brexit for Scotland as it would mean that our People’s Sovereignty will have been upheld and WM removing us from the EU against that 62% Remain expression of our sovereign will, would be a breach of our People’s Sovereignty, which again, is protected by the terms of the Act and Treaties of Union.

      No referendum required initially, as a breach of Treaty is an ending of said treaty, automatically.

      Scotland, no matter how WM try to act differently, IS LEGALLY EQUAL PARTNERS in the Union with England (and the Union ONLY HAS TWO signatories).

      As such, we can end the treaty anytime we like, if that is what the Sovereign Scots People want to do, or politically, in the immediate instance, to protect our enshrined rights (Sovereignty and Scots Law) from abuse/attack.

      Technically, we still need to pledge to hold a plebiscite to affirm the political action, but the question would be rather different than last time.

      Q. Do you the Sovereign Scots people,

      a. Wish to affirm the protective political decision, taken by your representatives at Holyrood, to end the treaty of Union with England ?

      b. Wish the Scotsgov to negotiate a NEW treaty of Union with WM, which will have terms acceptable for Scotland ?

      WM would have some job selling THAT to their electorate after telling them they subsidise Scotland.

      So in fact, there would NEVER be terms WM could sign up to in that scenario, so the political dissolution would stand.

      That is the power of the Holyrood Continuity Bill, it gives Scotsgov real political power and control of the narrative, should WM try to deny, delay the upcoming indyref.

      When Nicola TELLS Treeza we ARE holding a referendum, treeza has 2 options.

      1. Agree to whatever Nicola says on S.30 and timing.

      2. Continue to deny/refuse/delay.

      If she goes with option 2, then Scotsgov simply tells her that there will be a motion put to Holyrood to dissolve the Union with immediate effect, as WM has breached the express terms of the Treaty of Union.

      See how she likes that.

    380. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:40 pm:

      ” … The EU has trade deals with Japan and Canada and South Korea … “

      Which is exactly the reason why a UK outside of the EU will not manage to arrange more advantageous trade deals with those countries already in trade deals with the EU.

      Under WTO rules there will be greater expensive trading conditions even if the countries would risk jeopardising their existing deals with the EU.

    381. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:43 pm:

      ” … If I was an English nationalist I would be advocating for England to leave the UK as well as the EU.”

      Hilarious! English Nationalists don’t want shot of N. Ireland, Wales and Scotland, HYUFD.

      They all believe that they are all parts of Greater England and that England owns them. Note that while Wales & Ireland were both annexed by English Royal decree, (Statute of Rhuddlan & Crown of Ireland Act respectively), Scotland is legally a equally sovereign partner by international Treaty of Union.

      When the English Nationalists have got up a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland the Treaty of Union will be rescinded and The Kingdoms of both Scotland and England will return to the Status Quo Ante. Which, BTW: Is NOT an rUnited Kingdom..

    382. Bill McLean says:

      Robert – Just a few thoughts on our visitor. Your usual defenestration of HYUFD’s nonsense is unlikely to draw any response. His only interest is to reduce morale amongst independence supporters – he will of course fail. We really need more of the information you, and others, provide not his disruptive drivel!
      I really wish that you,and others, would ignore him. We are well on the way to our freedom and the right to determine everything that we want our country to be and do. Unionists are losing – history should be their lesson but as usual ignorance of their awful history, and arrogance, diminishes their ability to see clearly. I really hope that a few years of isolation, which is what they seem to prefer, will bring them to their senses. Feel for the ordinary people of England, who being fed bull for hundreds of years, are again the ones who will suffer most!

    383. Nana says:

      The PM has offered to call me after her Cabinet meeting – I have suggested that we should speak ahead of the meeting so that @scotgov concerns about what is emerging can be relayed to the Cabinet BEFORE they take a decision. She has so far refused. The “respect” agenda in action.

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1062682482527662080

    384. Robert Louis says:

      jeezo. The entire UK is going down the toilet with every day, and a thick Tory MP stands up at PMQs to ask about a freaking bell ringer.

      These clowns are truly, truly, delusional.

    385. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers Wrong the policy of the English Democrats Party was for an independent England though it has now switched to just an English Parliament

    386. HYUFD says:

      Bob Mack As you confirm neither China nor India have a trade deal with the EU (post Brexit UK will actually be the EU’s largest trade partner). Trump has ripped up TTIP

    387. Ottomanboi says:

      Dean Acheson Sec of State in the Truman administration said in december 1962,
      GREAT BRITAIN HAS LOST AN EMPIRE AND HAS NOT YET FOUND A ROLE.
      And given the current delusional, Mad Hatter régime probably never will.

    388. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers The English economy is worth £2.4 trillion alone which would make it the 7th largest economy in the world

    389. Bob Mack says:

      The whole thing is brilliant. The end of Theresa or the UK is nigh.
      I can almost hear the votes for independence stacking up.

    390. Bob Mack says:

      The worth of the English economy without a deal ? You might want to divide that number by 2 fuddy.

    391. Golfnut says:

      @Robert Peffers.

      I know you have brought this up several times in the past, at least as far as my memory can be relied on, and probably needs a little more prominence. When the union between Scotland and England’s ends, the United Kingdom as political entity ceases to exist. No rUK. All Treaties signed by the UK are void.

      I can think of at least one Treaty Westminster would like to be freed from, the GFA.

    392. Meindevon says:

      @Nana 12.27. Haha Nana I thought, on reading the first few lines of your post ‘Yes! Phone Nana and let her do the talking, she’ll sort Tresa out!’

      Very disappointed to see you were quoting the FM. ?

    393. Robert Louis says:

      I do hope when that evil witch Theresa May decides to phone the FM to tell her what England has decided for Scotland, that the FM tells the tory evil witch to go f*** herself sideways.

      Patronising, insulting and arrogant Westminster is out of control.

      All constitutional’ ‘norms’ have been trashed by westminster. End the union.. Do it, then phone Theresa to let her know what Scotland has decided. Then we’ll allow them to negotiate with our Scottish government.

    394. Nana says:

      Meindevon, lol. I forgot the ‘Nicola says’ part.

      I think the time for talking is over, I’m ready for a good old scrap instead.

    395. yesindyref2 says:

      The misinformation machine is at it all over the place.

      Re China and the EU, there’s negotiations underway for a 2020 agreement “EU-China 2020 Strategic Agenda for Cooperation”.

      http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/china/

      For India there’s “Negotiations for a comprehensive FTA started in June 2007 and discussions are currently taking place on a number of key outstanding issues. ”

      http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/india/

      Reading up those two easy pages shows the importance of the EU as a market for both China and India in trading terms, and if the UK thinks it will get a better deal with either country, I have a bridge I can sell FUD.

    396. Maria F says:

      HYUFD says:
      14 November, 2018 at 9:17 am
      “The EU currently has no trade deal with China, India or the USA to name a few”

      Ermm, Are you absolutely certain of that? Because I am not.

      CHINA

      This is what I found in Wikipedia (searching in Google for “EU trade deal with China”)

      “The EU is China’s largest trading partner, and China is the EU’s second largest trade partner after the United States”

      “Relations (EU-China) are governed by the 1985 EU-China Trade and Cooperation Agreement. Since 2007, negotiations have been underway to upgrade this to a new European Union Association Agreement and there are already 24 sectoral dialogues and agreements from environmental protection to education”

      “Europe’s interest in China led to the EU becoming unusually active with China during the 1990s with high-level exchanges. EU-Chinese trade increased faster than the Chinese economy itself, tripling in ten years from USD 14.3 billion in 1985 to USD 45.6 billion in 1994”

      “Trade in 1993 saw a 63% increase from the previous year. China became Europe’s fourth largest trading partner at this time. Even following the financial crisis in 1997, EU-Chinese trade increased by 15% in 1998”

      USA

      Directly from the website of the Office of the United States Trade Representative under “European Union”:

      “U.S. goods and services trade with the EU totaled nearly $1.1 trillion in 2016. Exports totaled $501 billion; Imports totaled $592 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade deficit with the EU was $92 billion in 2016”

      “The United States had $686 billion in total (two ways) goods trade with the European Union during 2016, its largest Goods trade partner. Goods exports totaled $270 billion; Goods imports totaled $416 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with the EU was $147 billion in 2016”

      “The EU countries together, would rank as the 2nd largest supplier of imports to the United States in 2016”

      “The five largest country suppliers of imports are: Germany ($114.1 billion), United Kingdom ($54.3 billion), France ($46.7 billion), Ireland ($45.5 billion), and Italy ($45.3 billion)”

      INDIA

      searching in Google for “EU trade deal with India”,
      from the third entry (India-European Union relations):

      “Relations between the Republic of India and the European Union are currently defined by the 1994 EU-India Cooperation Agreement. The EU is a significant trade partner for India and the two sides have been attempting to negotiate a free trade deal since 2007”

      “The EU is India’s largest trading partner with 12.5% of India’s overall trade between 2015 and 2016, ahead of China (10.8%) and the United States (9.3%). India is the EU’s 9th largest trading partner with 2.4% of the EU’s overall trade. Bilateral trade (in both goods & services) reached €115 billion in 2017 [2] EU exports to India have grown from €24.2 billion in 2006 to €41.7 billion in 2017. India’s exports to EU also grew steadily from €22.6 billion in 2006 to €44.2 billion in 2017”

      “France, Germany and UK collectively represent the major part of EU-India trade”

      In conclusion, HYUFD, consciously or not, you are talking an awful lot of bllcks. The UK is trading with China, India and USA thanks to the trade agreements the EU has currently in place with those countries. So, again, the division “EU/non EU” when we are talking about trade of the UK is nothing but a huge smokescreen desperately attempting to hide from us the fact that pretty much every trade agreement the UK has currently been using with its biggest trading partners (EU or out of the EU) is thanks to the EU and will be gone if the EU leaves with no deal.

      Wake up and smell the coffee, HYUFD. You have been conned.

    397. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog
      If the UK Government had spent £450 billion in Scotland, we’d have twice the GDP and twice the population, and our “ageing population” would be a thing of the past with all the young blood needed to sustain our economy.

      Instead they spent it on failed City Banksters who’d taken over what used to be sound Scottish banks, and turned them into City of London toxic debt city casino bankers, which happened in the City NOT in Scotland. This of course gave revenue benefits to London, the South-East and East of England, giving them some increased revenues with £450 billion of taxpayer bailout, though most of it was wasted. Keeping FUD in a misinformation job perhaps, maybe even at Dover House.

    398. yesindyref2 says:

      @Maria F
      Yes, the problem for the UK is that negutations with India started in 2009, with China in 2012 and STILL there’s no final agreement.

      Looking at CETA, the Canadian deal, negotiations had started before, but CETA itself started in 2008, was agreed in 2014, and still hasn’t been fully ratified or reviewed by the ECJ which could decide against it.

      Yet the UK faces crashing out on 29th March 2019 with no trade deals at all, even within WTO itself as these need to be renegotiated with the likes of India objecting (state subsidies I think).

      The UK is ….ed (insert word of choice). And of course any trade deals it might come up with in 6 or 7 years, face similar potential contests in the UKSC. Perhaps even over chlorinated chicken.

    399. HYUFD says:

      Maria F So as I said the EU has no full free trade deal with the USA, China or India at present. Given the EU as a whole is in the top 3 global economies along with India and the USA it is no surprise it does a lot of trade with them

    400. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 Not every city bank was bailed out e.g. HSBC and indeed Lloyds only got into trouble when it took over HBOS

    401. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I understand that it was US cash that saved the UK banks, because that was where the toxic loans occurred.

    402. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      13 November, 2018 at 10:19 pm

      “Rock at 9.29

      Why would I want to deny that really stupid post? The SNP has 36 seats to the Tories 13. That is the second worst ever Tory result in Scotland.”

      Your spin is even worse than that New Labour used to employ. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself for falling into the same gutter as them.

      The Tories had no more than 1 or 2 seats for a long time but now have 13. How can that be the second worst ever Tory result in Scotland?

      As Ottomanboi rightly said on another thread: “The rose-tinted specs, worn by many on here, need to be discarded.”

      HYUFD says:
      13 November, 2018 at 1:05 pm

      “Dave McEwan Hill The great Ruth Davidson has taken the Scottish Tories from just 1 MP in Scotland to 13 and overtaken Scottish Labour as the main opposition in Holyrood to the SNP and she has not finished yet!”

      For the record:

      Rock (13th May 2015 – “Moodievision: The Fall And Fall…”):

      “Ruth Davidson is the most disgusting and nastiest politician in Scotland in my view.”

    403. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      13 November, 2018 at 11:26 pm

      “Why would I not Rockshit. You are one big joke just own it or pissof.

      You repeat the same boring crap and make your ludicrous apprentice Nostradamus forecasts whilst challenging others to act as stupidly as you.

      You are great big joke. If I want to joke about your stupid forecasts I will do so. So suck it up or pissof.”

      You have never made a serious point on this blog and you made an utter fool of yourself by thinking Indyref 14 meant 14 independence referendums. If anyone is looking for a joke on this site, you would win on every single thread.

    404. Rock says:

      Breeks says:
      13 November, 2018 at 11:28 pm

      “I’ll go on the record and say I don’t think there actually will be a referendum. The Union will destroy itself via the formal breach of the Union Treaty, which will occasion the signatories of that Treaty to revert to their pre-Treaty status of separate Kingdoms with separate Constitutional identities.”

      How many times has the Union Treat been breached in the last 311 years?

      Do you think the pretendy and rotten to the core “Supreme Court of Scotland” would ever unambigously make a ruling which would harm Westminster’s stranglehold on Scotland?

      Hell would have to freeze before the Union destroyed itself.

    405. Rock says:

      sandy says:
      13 November, 2018 at 9:58 pm

      “Oh, for God’s sake, EVERYBODY posting or reading tonight send Rock a date for INDY2.
      See if that will shut him up for a while.”

      sandy says:
      13 November, 2018 at 9:58 pm

      “Post it to Rock NOW.”

      Don’t YOU have a view as to when the next independence referendum should/will be held?

    406. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      14 November, 2018 at 8:46 pm

      “I understand that it was US cash that saved the UK banks, because that was where the toxic loans occurred.”

      The taxes of the UK’s “plebs” saved the UK banks.

    407. Cubby says:

      ROCKSHIT ALERT

      Lots of ROCKSHIT Above .

      The BRITNAT tag team ( The Plonkers ) are spouting their usual crap above. BRITNAT Liars the pair of them.

      HEY Rockshit you are a total joke.

    408. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      14 November, 2018 at 10:37 am
      @wullie says: 13 November, 2018 at 8:00 pm:

      …..It has always been a legal requirement that for Scotland to end the union there has to be a clear demand from the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      So there you are, wullie, set your sights to aim upon converting unionist Scots to want Scottish independence and then, and only then, start aiming at the legal and political professions if they then fail to act.

      Apologies Robert for late address to your comment, but I disagree. You are not incorrect in what you say, but Sovereignty is a double edged sword. It’s empowerment unarguably does require a majority opinion, but don’t forget the reciprocal aspect of Sovereignty which prevents the empowerment of others.

      We require no majority or mandate to stand resolutely against the unlawful misappropriation of Scottish Sovereignty, since the Constitutional Sovereignty which empowers us simultaneously denies power to those who are “not” us.

      Sovereignty is the superior of democracy, not its servant. It’s potency in empowering us Scots is equally potent in curtailing the powers of other non-Scots. We don’t have to win any case against Brexit to stop it being forced upon us, we need only observe the limit of sovereign jurisdiction, and Brexit, or any other attempted subjugation or usurpation of power is unconstitutional and dead in the water.

      While yes, arguably, we may not initiate sovereign action without a positive majority mandate, we require no such mandate whatsoever to dispute the unlawful misappropriation or overruling of Scotland’s Sovereignty by Westminster.

      We are sovereign, or we are not. It is a binary option.
      If “we” are sovereign, then “they” are not. It is an absolute condition.

      What you describe is active Sovereignty which requires positive initiative, but we also have an ever watchful passive Sovereignty which protects us while we sleep.

    409. yesindyref2 says:

      @Breeks
      Ah well, that maybe gets into the logic and metaphysics of philosophy, or something like that.

      If you and a couple of others were for some reason in my house watching TV, say the rugby against South Africa, and someone walks in the back door, calmly unplugs the TV and walks out with it, and we do nothing about it, was it really theft? Did we resist, and does that matter?

      I guess with Sovereignty, we might need to maintain its existence or perhaps it dies out. So for instance any of us could take something to court, citing people who are trying to take it away for some issue. If they then don’t defend the action, we have maintained the sovereignty. Or if they defend and we win, then again we have maintained the sovereignty. But I guess if we lose, then we have lost at least that part of sovereignty.

      But what if we do nothing, has the sovereignty been eroded, does it exist at all, or is it merely waiting to be reasserted? Is there a time limit on sovereignty?

      Mmm, time for bed said Zebedee. Boiiinng!

    410. Breeks says:

      YesIndyref2 Sovereignty is finite and absolute. Like energy, you cannot create it or destroy it, merely change its state. It is also binary and indivisible, – an absolute condition like up or down, in or out, dead or alive. If person A is sovereign, by definition, it means persons B to Z cannot be sovereign.

      This “United Kingdom”, this Constitutional mess which Scotland finds itself in has not arisen through any defect or imperfection in our sovereignty, but the establishment and prevailing dominance of a gross injustice and contrived faux Constitution, created and sustained by a whole arsenal of manipulative devices designed to confound the truth and subjugate Scotland’s interests through perfidious constitutional sophistry.

      This steaming injustice might have prevailed for over 300 years, prevails over us today, but for all that, it nevertheless lacks the obdurate substance of Scotland’s Indisputable sovereignty. It is NOT legitimate. Never has been legitimate, never will be legitimate. Throw it in a pan to boil off the rancid flesh, and the indestructible purity that’s left behind when all the crap is removed is Scotland’s Sovereignty.

      Why do we endure this rancid handicap upon our Nation??? Throw the festering mess into the crucible that is the European Court of Justice and light the burner. We can PROVE Scottish sovereignty, documenting its inception, constitution, ratification, formal international recognition, and we can even describe in authentic detail it’s malignant corruption by the stifling and debilitating Act of Union. What can the United Kingdom prove to be different? What can they dispute? Test the issue. They lose. We win. Sovereignty is an absolute condition and the UK doesn’t have it. We do.

    411. Breeks says:

      And to answer your question, what if we do nothing? Look around you.



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