Wings Over Scotland

I know exactly where you’re coming from with your last paragraph but if you give up on us Stu, I think ‘we’re doomed’ to quote one Scot!

And that’s why FPTP doesn’t work.

We need to find out the second preferences of that “UK in the EU” group.

Hi,

“Scotland isn’t merely about to get something it doesn’t want, it’s about to get the exact opposite of the thing it wants most.”

Not true, the thing it least wants is independent Scotland outside the EU. That is *not* what we are about to get.

I suppose everybody wants everything which is a reflection of what’s going on in the HOC right now

The difference is punters don’t get that amount of multiple choices to dither over when it comes to a referendum, because that choice is more like *would you like your head bitten off by a Tiger a Lion or would you like Independence

Although I bet there are some who would pause for thought over the animal selection choice

who dares wins

time to call indyref2

There’s a missing question

Independent Scotland outside the EU and outside the single market

Independent Scotland outside the EU and in the single market (or EFTA-EEA).

If I’d answered Q13 as set I’d be in the 15% SNP members who don’t want to be in the EU. But I’d be lumped in with the tiny fraction who want Albania in the Heather

We’ve always known that Scots are thrawn and this just reiterates the contradiction.

Going to be obvious fairly soon that we have a ‘choice’ of indy or fucked with UK. Hellish…

How can you be in the e.u. Being told what to do and laws being passed on you and be liable to be out voted by 27 to 1 and call that independence ???

Rev Stuart

I fear you may have been too-long in the Scottish Missionary Service in the far Souh-West of England.

From reading your twitter feed, it appears you are advocating the use of a chibb as a means of ridding oneself of aa troublesome grand-mother.

Surely every Scot knows, although the practice is frowned upon – indeed we are always told: “Ye cannae dae that;” the time-honourd way to be rid of a troublesome grandmother is to shove her off a bus.

It would be interesting to correlate by use of social media as I suspect that older people are least likely to use it for anything other than pics of the grandkids

Older women supporting Brexshit is also skewing the demographic of all older folks supporting Brexshit.

Women – especially in Scotland – outlive men by 2 to 1.

Most older women are also drawn to be selfish – because they’re the remaining survivors in the couple – thus of a Tory bent.

Now, if their grandchildren could prod them to rethink. we may turn a corner.

Agree with Robbo “when you vote you’re voting for independence”

This should be shouted loud and clear at every election. If you vote for us you are in favour of

independence. If you are opposed to independence vote for someone else. This would force

voters to come off their fences and make a choice.

Labour now stand for banning Freedom of Movement, when Scotland cannot survive with out inward migration.
I demand that Leonard, Rowley, Findlay, Lamont, Gray, Sarwar and the rest of the Branch Office defy Corbyn and McDonnell who are sitting down with their Blue Tory pals and dragging Scotland out of Europe against our express wishes at the last SGE.
Do the thousands of Young Scots who got caught up in the Corbynmania hysteria now believe that the Islington gardener has ‘international’ Socialist credentials.
We cannot hang around any longer; I am 71, and have never felt so vibrantly ‘young’ politically in my whole life.
Sturgeon must come off the fence now; we are done trying to save England from self harm.
Independence is our only option.

Pretty depressing stuff, so time to redouble our efforts. No one thought this was going to be easy and it wont be so we go on.

Good analysis of Leith Walk Edinburgh Council by election result from Scot Goes Pop.

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

“The swings speak for themselves – there was a swing of more than 4% from Labour to SNP, and of roughly 2.5% from Conservative to SNP. The Tories must be particularly disappointed, because it’s not all that common for them to go backwards in local by-elections.”

GrahamB says:
12 April, 2019 at 1:45 pm
O/T
Posted this on the previous thread:

Yup- all after there own agenda

That’s why I trust no-twat. Vote SIP(Scotland Independence Party)for independence 1st and foremost.

Couple of thoughts:

On coin tosses:

Tails never fails.

On the older demographic (and I know there are a lot of Indy Supporters & Wingers who fall into it and probably weren’t polled):

Minimum commitment of making an Indy Scotland’s State Pension the same as the EU Average State Pension.

For example the maximum weekly UK state pension is £141

However the weekly state pension is:

£507 in Germany,

£304 in France,

and £513 in Spain.

So an average weekly pension of just UK, Germany, Spain and France would be £366.

Or an increase of £225 per week (a rise of 159%).

Surely a vote winner.

We need some clarity and leadership here!!

Fars Cactus when we need him??

I think it reflects where people get their information from. Older people, especially women, get it from TV, specifically the BBC. They also read the Mail and Express.

Young people go online. And so do some of the more enlightened older people. 🙂

Opinion forming is hard outside the mainstream but it is happening.

Said it years ago the only way to get the baby boomers to vote your way is to bribe them.

The Scottish government,SNP,green, yes movement and grass roots activists for indy should have had a big shiny bribe for them oh along the lines of you know your UK pension well we will double it.
Who cares about the costings the tories and labour never bother their arse when they pull a bribe out for the dafties.

@ DerekM – no need to denigrate fair pensions as a “bribe”. Most of us have paid into NI all our working lives and the least Westminster could do (for it is a reserved matter) is pay a fair return. But no. They squander the money then tell us “the country can’t afford it”.

If the country can afford Trident missiles, billions of bank bailouts and more billions of BREXIT damage limitation it can afford fair pensions.

DerekM says:
12 April, 2019 at 2:14 pm
Said it years ago

Yup . Where does the money come from for pensions and other stuff. Well just borrow it, invest some and distribute rest. Didn’t seem to matter to the Labour or Tory mob over the years as we’re nearly 2 Trillion in National debt and we have shit pensions unless your a big Union boss, a former director of a busted company or born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

So who gives a toss. It’s only paper.

Blair Paterson says:

12 April, 2019 at 1:14 pm

How can you be in the e.u. Being told what to do and laws being passed on you and be liable to be out voted by 27 to 1 and call that independence ???
…….

It is almost like you are deliberately and wilfully ignoring the literally hundreds of times where multiple people have utterly debunked this moronic chuntering…!!

Malta, population under half a million, had the power to veto the latest extension the other day.

If they had vetoed it, the Uk would have suffering a cliff edge crash out in just over 8 hours from now and 65 million lives would be in imminent danger of devastating consequences.

As EU partners post indy, SCOTLAND enjoys such power.

Thats a lot more than what we have now.

Jockanese Wind Talker – 2.00pm

Agree 100% that a commitment to moving towards EU Average Pension should be included as a firm promise at the next Indy Ref.
Just as important should be a commitment to WASPI women (and men), to honor original Retirement dates and to cap future retirement age at 65.

Blair Paterson says: [And I find this an odd attitude, though not uncommon as bit of unionist propaganda ‘logic’ which has little foundation in reality]

“How can you be in the e.u. Being told what to do and laws being passed on you and be liable to be out voted by 27 to 1 and call that independence ???”

If Scotland is outvoted on an issue by 27-1 don’t you think we might need to consider why ? Maybe we’d be making a bad decision (?) I think it highly unlikely Scotland would be that far away from European consensus on any issue.

In the UK we are out-voted frequently and can do nowt about it on issues we are right about and Westminster is palpably wrong-headed.

It’s not that difficult to understand the increase in support for

Union and Brexit. And it’s little to do with democracy.

It’s people that voted No and think independence is even worse than Brexit (which they don’t like either).

When confronted with a straight choice, they plump for the Union. They seem themselves as pragmatists.

Ethical we tried that and anyway what is wrong with a political movement having a solid pledge or promise to the people especially one that has yet to let them down.

And plus shhhh you and i both know if we go into the EU independent then we will need to raise them by about 50% anyway.

We can argue and debate as much as we like they do not hear us so we have to get their attention and trust me they like the shiny shiny ,its how Thatcher got them to sell us all out.

“We’re tired, folks. Who’s up for just agreeing to toss a coin for it and then never talk about any of this ever again?”

I think a lot of us are tired. We do a lot of analysis to try to see what will happen in Indy Ref 2. But there is another way.

Hold the fucking thing.

Then we’ll know how it all translates into reality. At worst it’s a whole load of data and analysis to be done for next time.

At best, who gives a shit, we’ll all be partying like it’s going out of fashion 🙂

It is almost as if the sheer number if options has fractured the drive for purpose and direction. Something afflicting Westminster as much as the voters.

I think the next month or so is going to be pivotal to everything, Indy, Brexit, political affiliations…the lot. That said. The latter may be less volatile in Scotland than the rest of the UK but imagine being in a UK with what may come to pass.

“It’s Scotland’s old women that favour Brexit.”

Research findings show that the NHS is of FAR greater importance than pensions, for the elderly in particular. WAY ahead in fact. It might make sense to get the “news” out there and that is that Westminster, especially the Tories, are absolutely determined to privatise the NHS in totality and of course the US and Trump will factor in this. Additionally if Barnett exists, following Brexit, the more that they privatise down south the less money will be coming our way. Add to that too, that people fleeing from England, more so than currently, to ensure that they get a superior SNHS / Home Care service will create even more challenges for Holyrood. I’m hoping Stu that your “wee book” will be focusing on the future of our SNHS. If so, surely that would / could make a massive difference?

For the +60 generation, buses, bus stops and coffee shops, plus perhaps tour buses.

How, don’t ask me. Encourage the kids, grandkids to wear YES badges when going for a visit, and happen to have the odd leaflet.

For sure, the most interesting thing will be to find out what will the choice of those who for now want to remain in both unions be when such option is not longer available, and this decision they will have to make sooner rather than later.

The Rev has very smartly put in front of us the reason why indyref must not happen just yet. Call it denial or wishful thinking, but there are still far too many people in Scotland desperately clinging onto the idea of the survival of the old status quo (that of being able to remain in both unions), an illusion that, in my view, the political arms of the English establishment are only too happy to preserve for as long as possible with delay after delay and no clarity whatsoever and with illusions of people’s votes. Perhaps what the SNP has been trying all along is to bring constantly to the fore the people’s vote not as much as an encouragement for it to happen but more as a way for the tories and labour to grow the backbone of publicly rejecting it for once and for all.

The moment of truth will be when the option of “remaining in both unions” is finally taken away from all those people, being that by means of a definite and final brexit date, a hard brexit, a dodgy deal brexit, the complete rejection of revoking A50, the elimination of the possibility of a people’s vote or a “people’s vote” that gives again a brexit result.

Cynical as I am, I have been wondering for quite a while if the perceived “incompetence” of Westminster to decide one way or another for so many months and the convenient “fracture” of labour and tories with sections “demanding” for a “people’s vote” has been engineered as a maneuver to delay the moment for the above voters to having to wake up and smell the coffee of a reality where remaining in both unions is not longer an option.

What is clear to me is that this is simply been a waiting game and one that is testing which of the two main forces driving this game can hold the longest and push the hardest: if the pro Scottish independence parties fighting against brexit or rather the pro VIP taxdodgers, Tax haven-philes, anti EU tax avoidance regs, pro USA-UK deal, pro neocon on steroids ideologies, desperate for brexit. Because lets not make any mistake here, these are the 2 real forces driving this and the only 2 forces which have brought the UK politics to a standstill – any excuses used by the pro-brexiteers are also applicable for the pro-independence forces, so the stronger the pro-brexit site gets, the stronger it makes the pro-independence site at the same time. TIG’s, LibDems and fractions of tories and Labour asking for a People’s vote are simply a reflection of the English establishment desperately attempting to slow and cool down that end game fight by prolonging the illusion that the option of the old status quo is still very much possible – hence revoking A50 or the people’s vote have not been discarded completely yet – this weakens the brexit side and with that is destroying the Establishment politics, but it is a necessary evil to weaken the pro-indy side that grows stronger as teh brexit process moves forward.

What the English establishment has in its hands is a time bomb and MPs from the political arms of the English establishment are desperately passing the ticking bombshell from one to the other. Have we ever seen tories and labour “negotiating” some kind of coalition before this? The only way to stop the advance of pro-indy forces is by obliterating completely the pro-brexit side and doing so will inevitably destroy the concept of England bipartite politics as we know it. In addition, the English establishment is going to have to deal with a very disappointed electorate and of course with the angry vested interests (foreign and domestic) who pushed for brexit in the first place and that have not achieved the embarrassment of riches they were hoping to get by now.

Now, wouldn’t it be marvelous to find a common ground where to unite those two opposing forces on the same side against the English establishment, like for example by finding a way to get the pro brexit elements in England to see Scotland dissolving the union as the only possible way to achieve it?

The unionists seem to have shifted from Brexit to Remain, other variations are fairly minimal.

It’s NOT a four way choice though, so the figures are only useful as a tool for direction of travel. In this case, AWAY from Brexit from those who very likely voted for it.

But HOW does this situation resolve itself? Would any future government overturn the referendum or re-run it? VERY doubtful, the people of England & Wales would be, rightly, up in arms that their democratic voice was being ignored (Yeh, I know how THAT feels!)

Labour want the Tories to get Brexit resolved so they can use the mess as an election tool. May wants to be able to say she’s tried every possible avenue (ie speaking to Labour)There’s no majority for ANY solution and the EU will extend this into the long grass for as long as possible.

The next Westminster government is likely to be a hung parliament, but which party will form a coalition?

If the Tories can’t go begging back to their terrorist-sympathising chums in the DUP and LidDems aren’t numerous enough to help Labour form a government that would leave ONE other option. A confidence and supply arrangement between Labour and SNP. SNP could agree a deal for Brexit, to respect the English & Welsh vote at the price of having the right to decide when referenda are called on Indy. NOT just get one, have the RIGHT TO DECIDE when they are called. That way we can get out before Scotland is removed from the EU along with England…

@Dr Jim
I think you’re right, but still a good idea to keep the pressure on.

Should Scotland come out of this badly the SNP is toast. Sturgeon & co have been too concerned with saving the UK from quitting the EU. This strategy, if you can call it such, has failed. It has wasted precious time when an all out propaganda assault on the British state and all its devious and incompetent works might have been effectively mounted.
Independence supporters are frustrated. A party that once had 56 mps and >50% of the Westminster vote did nothing with it. Woefully pathetic.
The SNP conference should be interesting, provided the great leader’s stage managers are kept well away.

Mmm, 1 in 4 chance I’ll reach the age of 92. Poor world, I feel sorry for it!

@Ottomanboi

“Woefully pathetic.”

Yes you are.

@maria F 3.48pm

Good post, and totally agree that Ukexit has long since been about getting a ‘brexit’ that England wants, without losing the Scottish resources, by us gaining enough support for independence, because of our clear objection and rejection of leaving the EU.

The SNP have been busy for a couple of years now, whittling away at the options for WM trying to stop ukexit driving Scots indy.

The Continuity Bill highlighted brilliantly that WM think they can walk over Scots Law by employing “sleekit” means, but the reality is, Scots Law was indeed subjugated, as The Queen had no right to give the Wrecking Bill Royal Assent before the Scots Law Bill (Continuity).

Sleekit means is still subjugation, it just moved to being sleekit subjugation.

That alone is reason for Sovereign Scots to punt Betty.

The thing is though, WM knows that was not going to fly later in international courts, as once they are informed that the Queen had a LEGAL duty to protect the interests of Scots Law and CHOSE to allow WM to employ sleekit means, and not only that, SHE enabled them by giving Royal Assent priority to the wrecking bill, they will have no option but to rule with Scotsgov on that one.

And that means that the international courts, must find the Treaty of Union in full and open breach, and Holyrood is recognised as the government of the now independent, Scotland.

If WM think they are on strong legal ground re: over ruling Scots Law/Sovereignty of the Scots People, and simply saying ‘No’ to a Section 30 and tough titty, then why do they not simply ‘get on’ with a No Deal ukexit ?

Simply, because they KNOW the legal position they sit on, is just not legally competent and will be eviscerated by a Scottish gov/parliamentary presented case to the international courts/bodies.

WM is crippled by fear of losing Scotland’s revenues, and are apopletic with rage over Scotsgov refusal to show its hand too early, allowing WM to find more ‘sleekit’ ways to circumvent our case for indy.

There is only ONE route WM can take, which allows them a hope of keeping Scotland tied to the Union.

A Section 30 referendum, at a time of Scotsgov choosing, and on Scotland’s terms to the fore.

Thanks to some great work over the last few years by the SNP (and others-revoke A.50 case) there are ZERO other scenario’s which do not involve the Scotsgov having the right to simply dissolve the Treaty of Union for subjugation of Scots Law (Continuity Bill) subjugation of Scots Sovereign Will (ANY ukexit) EVEL (denial of legally equal union partner status) amongst others.

Even if Nicola writes to Treeza and states “We will be having an indyref on xyz day / date, with a S.30 order” and treeza tries her “now is not the time” patter, then its off to Holyrood and a dissolution motion as the United Nations charters, which WM is a signatory to, is VERY specific.
……..

link to un.org

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
……….

In other words, now IS the time.

No matter the political shambles of ukexit, no matter if it destroys the WM led economy, no matter what, an indyref, with or without a S.30, called by Scotsgov/Holyrood, MUST be respected as by rights afforded by the U.N. never mind a cast iron mandate by Sovereign Scots and Holyrood.

Imagine if English voters ever figured out that they are actually being denied their precious ‘brexit’ because WM gov is petrified of losing Scotland ?

Having to admit Scotland keeps England afloat, after centuries of propaganda saying the complete opposite !

Not sure English political establishment, as is, could survive such a monumental earthquake.

THAT is down to the hard work and great patience of the SNP.

Why would people think, after years of brilliant positioning/politiking, that the SNP have suddenly decided to contrive to shit the bed at the moment of proof ?

Makes no sense if you examine the big picture, so i shall continue to keep the faith, and remain supremely confident in the job the SNP/Scotsgov are doing.

We ARE winning, i have zero doubt about that at all.

So the folk we mostly think are the most ‘cautious’ or ‘risk averse’ in life, i.e. oor auld grannies, are actually closet Thelma & Louises…

As a matter of interest are under 18’s excluded from polling?

Well those 30% that want to be in the UK & EU will have to jump one way or another. With indy in the EU and Indy outside the EU at 40%, then you only need to attract 10% of them.

Of course those that want Indy outside the EU may cut of their noses to spite their face. It would be the Scottish way of things, Indy supporters voting against Indy because it’s not the Indy of their choice.

It’s funny that the Tories don’t like being governed by a larger body than their own little own local authority.
East Renfrewshire, Rutherglen / Cambuslang , Bearsden areas are happy to earn their monies in Glasgow but don’t want to be run by Glasgow preferring to have their own authority areas.

Personally Glasgow should charge all those “outsiders ” a middle class rate for wandering around The Art Galleries !!!

“We’re tired folks’ – a lead in for me to say that I’m tired of the crass stupidity, incompetence and lying of May and her cohorts – would you offer any of them a job on your business? – and me, a life-time SNP supporter, I’m getting frustrated by the SNP. The route, and the timing is clear. Brextension thankfully affords us another clear opportunity, with time to hold the IndyRef before Brexit is finally triggered, and for Scotland to decide on remaining in the EU.

A strange Treaty if a country cannot rescind a Treaty.So enough of this Section 30 stuff. Hold a referendum on the clearest of terms – independence and remaining a EU member. The SNP must advise May without pause of Scotland’s decision to hold Indyref2.

May will whine, May will threaten, May will need to heed what the Eu says.

Just talk to yer auld granny.

Independent Scotland could easily afford to pay higher OAPensions. Scotland already pays the (UK) Gov OAP. Less spend pro rata than the rest of the UK. People in Scotland on average die younger. Scotland could easily pay higher OAP. Not paying for illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud, Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident etc.

Irish Republic pays much higher pensions and benefits. They do not have the resources and assets of Scotland. Scotland raises, pro rata, more in tax revenues than the rest of the UK.

Not sure when this was, but worth the watch just the same…!!

link to m.facebook.com

@Iain2 at 3:36pm …… “Promised pension rise.”

The problem with that Iain is that many elderly people don’t believe, for one minute, that an Independent Scotland would be able to afford to pay a higher rate of pension. In fact last time round many had been brainwashed into thinking that their pension would cease to be altogether the week following Independence. That opinion of theirs will be reinforced when the time comes, of course, with the BritNats making a point of informing everyone of that massive Scottish black hole that ranges from £10 to £16 billion depending on who’s telling the story.

The SNHS on the other hand which is tangible (rather than an imaginary pension rise) due to many people having experience of it would have a massive impact on people if they thought that they were going to lose it.

My plan for Indy success….

1) Everyone is a potential convert if the right buttons are pressed. The best people to convert NOs to YES is by their nearest and dearest – partners, spouses, off springs, grand children – you need to gently but regularly work on your NO relatives.

2) Older folks – their pensions and the NHS are key. A carrot and a stick. As others have suggested, promise iScotland will bring pensions up to the EU average quickly, and beyond in time. Make sure they understand that a devolved Holyrood cannot protect their NHS if the UK moves to the right and mimics the US. Only iScotland can guarantee an NHS.

3) Young folks – get them engaged and registered to vote, and get them to turn out on the day. It’s their future we are fighting for. They need to understand their future might be taken away from them!

geeo@ 6:22

Nice one not the answer she wanted I would say.

Iain mhor says:

I’m minded though of ‘The Battle of New Orleans’:
“We fired our guns and the British kept a comin,
There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago…”

Sadly, the ‘British’ who display illogical bravery on that occasion were the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

Scots need to display a different kind of bravery now. However, on this occasion it would be for a better more just cause.

@Iain mhor
Mmm, Indy Ref 1 lost. SNP membership goes up from 25,500 to 125,000. Call it 5 times. MPs go up from 6 to 56 – 9 1/3 times.

If Indy ref 2 were to be lost, SNP membership goes up from 125,500 to 750,000. MPs go up from 56 to 522. They’d take over the House of Commons! We’d OWN the UK!

You can’t expect rational political thought in a media environment that predominantly supports right-wing, xenophobic, nationalism. The Brexit process has undone democracy in Britain, which has been incrementally reduced to a process of majoritarian populism. Scots better be prepared to start performing as Brexitarians, as both the Prime-minister and Queen appear to think the British constitution is ‘optional documentation’. Without adherence to the Moral Law, British nationalism is simply English fascism.

Are Increasing Inequalities Threatening Democracy in Europe?
link to carnegieeurope.eu

Why is the BBC not highlighting investigations in to the criminal hijacking of the Brexit vote. Could it be they support English fascism?

The UK in the EU people will be the one’s who will be more likely to vote Yes after or in the context of Brexit since this option seems less and less likely to pertain. The status quo is no longer an option, it is which change do you want.

We need an official campaign to go canvassing and persuading them.

Some stuff on the Moral Law and democracy.

Morality and democracy
link to medium.com

DEMOCRACY AND MORALITY
faculty.tcu.edu/rgalvin/readings/DEMOCRACY%20AND%20MORALITY.doc

Democracy and Natural Law
link to scholarship.law.nd.edu

Natural Law, Justice and Democracy–Some
Reflections on Three Types of Thinking about Law
and Justice
chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=11601&context=journal_articles

@geeo
If the UK Gov really wanted to understand the “United” Kingdom, it could try some indicative votes where the 59 Scottish MPs were allowed to vote, the 18 NI (minus SF presumably) and the 40 Welsh MPs – and just 59 English MPs. Seem how they like that …

The ONLY one which matters, is the first one – ALL Scots.

The answer to that – Indy in the EU – shows the direction Scotland wants to go.

The rest is interesting, but irrelevant when it comes to the Vote.

Does the Church of Scotland still pledge allegiance to (white) British nationalism? Do they consider themselves agents of moral good, or are they comfortable as enablers of right-wing, xenophobic, nationalism? Is the Church of Scotland simply an out-of-touch enabler of English Torydum.

Rule Britannia and all that pish!

@Church of Scotland
Some homework for you, might help bring you up to speed on the morality of contemporary politics.

The Rule of Law
link to plato.stanford.edu

Natural Law and Democracy: The Philosophy of James Wilson
link to lawliberty.org

“THE HUMAN RIGHT TO DEMOCRACY –
A MORAL DEFENCE WITH A LEGAL NUANCE”
link to venice.coe.int

Human rights and democracy in a global context: decoupling and recoupling
link to tandfonline.com

OT but just watched Internet blog on impact of Universal Credit.

Makes me think the Tories are using Brexit to cover up the utter misery that is going on. People’s lives destroyed and suicides down to the Tories inhumane policies.

I’m perhaps crediting the Tories with more intelligenxe than they actually have but the use of deflection is an art form they have perfected.

@Church of Scotland
The image you had of Britain no longer applies. Time you wised up and started looking after your congregation. That’s if you want to remain morally relevant that is.

Democracy and Human Rights under pressure: the effects of right-wing populism, post-truth and radicalisation on Education for Democracy with young people
link to dare-network.eu

Political violence, civic space and human rights defence in the era of populism and authoritarianism
link to opendemocracy.net

Populism and the Rule of Law
link to lse.ac.uk

RISING TO THE POPULIST CHALLENGE
A NEW PLAYBOOK FOR HUMAN RIGHTS ACTORS
link to scholar.harvard.edu

@Jockanese Wind Talker

My uncle is one of those hardcore British nationalists. He’s Orange and voted No because he’s proud to be British and “we fought two wars together” (his words not mine.) The irony of it all is his mum is Catholic yet is happy to sing along about being up to his knees in Fenian blood.

We had a conversation the last time he visited. He said that Muslims are outbreeding Christians in the UK (he doesn’t even attend church) and that it was Nicola Sturgeon’s fault we were being taken out the EU. He also said Sturgeon is only interested in courting the Muslim vote although he used a derogatory term. I’ll let you guess what it was but it starts with a P and ends with an I. He then proceeded to complain about various issues, all of which are reserved to Westminster.

Once I corrected him about all this, he told me he is convinced independence will be shit, that Westminster is also shit and that nothing will change. I asked him what we should do then. He said, “better the devil you know.”

Some people are beyond help.

Ok then, so if most people want to remain in the EU as an indy state or want to remain in the UK and EU then the people who want to remain in both the UK and the EU need to be slapped about the face repeatedly until they understand THEY CANNOT HAVE BOTH!

They can have EU membership but only as an independent state. I suggest a regular kick in the crotch on the hour every hour until they grasp that simple premise.
I also suggest a general ban on voting for elderly harris tweed skirt wearing middle class blue rinse ladies as those auld cows wont be around for long anyway… at least not as long as it will take to clear up this brexit mess…

In need to learn to proof read better.

Democratic stress, the populist signal and extremist threat
A call for a new mainstream statecraft and contact democracy
link to progressivepost.eu

Given the Brexit vote was corrupted by dark money, here’s some more on “contact democracy” and human rights.

Rule of Law – Democracy and Human Rights
link to ohchr.org

Democracy and human rights policy – democracy
link to ec.europa.eu

CALL FOR PAPERS
CORRUPTION, DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
esil-sedi.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/EUI-conference-CfP-corruption-democracy-and-human-rights-def.pdf

Corruption Democracy and Human Rights: Exploring new avenues in the fight against corruption
link to www2.port.ac.uk

Where/who is this country that Farage the fange, SKY with BBC talks about?
Britain is an Island NOT a country………
Asked again today “ What does it say n yer blah” shit ?

Please Nichola call it……

@Church of Scotland
While I’m at it, I hope you remember that “harm prevention” is the most compelling legal argument, with respect to Moral Law.

What does Brexit mean for social policy in the UK?
An exploration of the potential consequences of the 2016 referendum for public services, inequalities and social rights

Summary

….The paper explores the consequences of Brexit understood in two ways – as the referendum result itself and as the eventual outcome of negotiations over the exit process and shape of future relations with Europe. Regardless of where the process ends up, the result changed British politics. The evidence the vote presented of deep disaffection with the status quo, the change of administration, and the time and resources focused on withdrawal negotiations and scenario planning have all had ongoing implications for social policymaking.

In terms of the eventual outcome, huge uncertainty remains and may well continue for years to come. Against this backdrop, the paper maps out the implications of likely alternatives, including a central scenario in which the UK leaves the single market and brings an end to the free movement of workers. We consider the implications under five broad headings i) the effects on the economy, with knock-on consequences for living standards and public spending; ii) withdrawal from European labour, social protection and human rights legislation; iii) the implications of an end to free movement for the social rights and entitlements of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU; iv) implications of leaving the single market for public service delivery more widely; and v) implications of regaining control over resources and regulations, including those governing public procurement and industrial strategy. We seek throughout to look for the opportunities as well as the risks of Brexit, and to highlight government action that could mitigate risks and allow opportunities to be maximised.

Our overarching conclusion is that Brexit poses major risks to social policy, and that these risks are larger the more distant the UK’s future relationship with the EU. Social policy has been affected by the UK’s membership of the EU in multiple ways – and hence will be deeply unsettled by leaving.

Evidence points towards lower economic growth under all Brexit scenarios, meaning lower living standards and less money for public services – the opposite of a ‘Brexit dividend’. Slower growth could also result in downward pressure on workers’ rights as the UK tries to find new ways to invite investment and boost employment. And a weaker economy will make the UK a less attractive place for the migrant workers we are likely to continue to need to keep our public services running.

Concerns about immigration were interpreted as being one of the key drivers of the referendum result, and ending the free movement of workers has been a red line for the UK government from early on. But a fall in EU migration also looks likely to have significant negative consequences for social policy. EU migrants play an important role in the delivery of health and social care and in housing construction, so reduced migration will make it more difficult – and more expensive – to provide these services.

The consequences for service delivery are likely to be much greater than any reduction in service demand. Aside from their role in delivering services, EU migrants are estimated to pay more into the exchequer in taxes than they take out in benefits and services, so reduced migration will have a negative effect on public finances. And evidence does not suggest there will be significant compensatory effects on the wages of UK-born workers as a result of reduced competition….

sticerd.lse.ac.uk/dps/case/spdo/spdorp03.pdf

I’ve posted this before but Scotland needs to wise up or it will end up a footnote in history.

Media definitely do matter: Brexit, immigration, climate change and beyond

Abstract

The notion that the media’s principal role regarding public opinion is reinforcement of pre-existing attitudes – and that this idea is relative inconsequential politically – is pervasive, across many political and social science sub-disciplines, and in non-academic commentary.

This article comprehensively challenges the evidential and theoretical underpinnings of this thesis, drawing on a wealth of contemporary survey data and media coverage research, across a range of issues, including climate change, Brexit, immigration, the economy and benefit fraud. It also argues that ‘reinforcement’ is an important and consequential power, and that the processes involved have significant implications for public misperception of salient political issues.

It makes the case that the media create attitudinal uncertainty, and can have pervasive but subtle influences on political attitudes, particularly when there are persistent patterns of coverage across a range of media. But also that in contexts like particularly close political contests, such influences can be decidedly consequential.

Keywords media impact, minimalist influence thesis, public misconceptions, public opinion, reinforcement, United Kingdom

link to journals.sagepub.com

Incorrect Cactus.

The UK’s 2nd chance to leave the EU was 2 minutes ago 🙂

Hey Cameron, aye it must be the gremlins… or the ghosties 🙂

Hey Thepnr, Brexit is trying to gaslight me

Scotland needs new choices

This year

Aye @MacMina MacAllan as per Thepnr welcome BTL.

I believe Indy Ref 2 needs to focus on iScotland vs Westminster controlled UK:

Pensions

Not allowing the SNHS to be sold to the Americans

Protecting Scotlands world renowned food and drinks industries

Getting the going rate for suppling electric (rather than paying SE biased the grid connection charge)

Having full control of all fiscal levers (including taxing Amazon, Google, BP, She’ll etc. properly rather than giving rebates)

Lots more examples exist (IndyPosterBoy has great visuals) but the BritNats will only have their already discounted lies and threats.

Hey Wingers, ah’ve worked it out and it appears that the countdown clock software is not adjusted for the clocks going backwards or forwards seasonly

That’s a bit of an obvious oversight like!

Wha’s like time?

That last link was to a LSE: Public lectures and event.

That cohort of 30% wanting UK and EU is a concern. We know that is not probable, so why would they think it is ?

If we hold indyref before 31 Oct then these voters may vote No believing it will result in No Remain. This is a big problem. Hells bells perhaps we need to wait some more.

Fortunately voting for stuff is a lot more simple than pollsters asking a menu load of questions designed to produce even more complicated results in order to do nothing more than analyse a menu load of results proving absolutely nothing but giving the pollsters a cushy job telling us all what we want and more often what we don’t want, creating even more mindless confusion to the voter who under real circumstances would never ever be asked by any political party to consider because punters are basically short attention spanned creatures who can’t make head nor tale of it all after the first ten minutes

Voting is simple, do you want the bad people or the nice people and it’s all the political parties are selling, good or bad, because that’s what they’re telling you the other guys are

People like us on WOS and other places don’t count, we’re geeks or we wouldn’t be here, most people aren’t geeks, they know nothing, or as we say in the music business they only know what they think they like, that doesn’t mean they know what’s good

All my life people who couldn’t play any instrument at all would approach me and say things like, do you mind constructive criticism, and the answer is always the same, not if you don’t play a musical instrument because you wouldn’t know how to criticise something you are unable to understand, because I’m cheeky like that, but do it nicely

Politics is much the same, so the question is do you like me or do you not, and that’s the sell, including one core message because it’s all you need and it’s all you should be selling, all the rest is stuff and unneccesary noise

Remember when they used to sell cars by filling your head with stats about zero to sixty in so many seconds, or how much torque or BHP it had, that stuff’s only for geeky top gear people now, the car sell now is, how does it make you feel, with adverts of satified faces looking comfortable driving their *dream*

Sell the dream

The nostalgic character of contemporary British nationalism undermines rational moral thought. Subsequently, Scotland’s electorate are at risk of serious moral harm if Scotland is dragged out of the EU. Westminster is determined to excluding Scotland from decisions that will shape Scotland’s future, so all we can do is sit back and watch as England’s structural cultural chauvinism tears the yoonyawn to bits. Then we need to act correctly and at the correct time.

Democracy for the Future: A Conceptual Framework to Assess Institutional Reform

Abstract:
There seem to be good reasons that democratic institutions must be reformed in order to minimize the danger of unsustainable policy decisions infringing upon duties of intergenerational justice. This is why there exist a number of different proposals of how to reform democratic states in order to foster their duties towards the future. However, the debate lacks a systematic assessment of these suggested reforms within a coherent theoretical and normative framework.

This paper aims at developing such a framework. We suggest two conceptual dimensions defining the spectrum of different justifiable institutional reforms: the relation between democracy and justice as one dimension and the conditions
considered relevant for viewing democracies as responsible collective agents as the other. Depending on how we understand this relation and these conditions, it is possible to substantiate a set of types of institutional reforms that will promote democracies’ capacities to comply with their responsibilities towards the future.

link to zora.uzh.ch

i have just went down the contributors page on bella doing the
good guy / wank
– thing for a wee joke

i am thinking of doing the same for wings BTL bods – its funny how, most of the good people evaporate, but the irritants just keep going (- why would you do that) – its gotten boring; the REVS posts are referencing Beckett FFS – desperate …

– everyone knows the situation
– everything has been talked about, repeatedly
we all know the score

SNP/SG/Nikki – its coming to a head …

stop trying to fix a situation for people who do not want it fixed and made it freely, by choice

“step away from the vehicle” – fuck the peoples vote – the only peoples vote the SNP/SG should worry about is indyref2

fuck england if it burns – we are not in charge of the fire extinguisher (I have been all over the place reading what the english think … its delusional and scary – so screw them – they wont drag us down)

stop allowing the most incompetent tory govt in history to repeatedly postpone the inevitable hard brexit
just call it – preferably the day before brexit, for maximal chaos
PISS OR GET OFF THE POT – WE ARE NOT WAITING
– make these idiots fight on two fronts

make the campaign all about MONEY – and play up the fear factor
– scare the grannies, if you need to – they should be scared
– Scotland will be LOOTED even worse than it ever was to shore up the economic disaster they have brought upon themselves
– a country with no manufacturing
– no natural resources
– a massive trade imbalance
– that cannot feed or power itself
– that survives on a lot of dubious funny money shenanigans that can dry up in an instant
– but that bends to the will of a nutbag populace who believe the “scots get tons of free gibs” – all “paid for by england”

recognise that the UK outside of Scotland is simply a collection of enemies, and theres a fair few inside it too
– any more accommodation of england, its govt, its people ( the little englanders AND the guardian readers) is “aiding the enemy during wartime”

Confused @ 2:26am

Agreed wholeheartedly. Indeed I argued at Xmas the tactic of holding indyref on 29 Mar as that would be the date of Maximum Pressure, so 31st October would be the equivalent except, now we could have a GE or a People’s Vote to contend with before that, not to mention the possibility of a Tory leadership contest, if TM resigns. Complicates matters somewhat. Then of course we also have the voters who might vote No thinking they will also be in the EU and the possibility that the EU will offer another extension, thus reducing the pressure.

What would Sun Tzu do NOW?
The troops are restless and its ideal campaigning time, so get some skirmishing practice in and the EU elections are around the corner.
Seems like a good idea to me, get going on the EU elections and in the process try and educate the “I want to be in the UK and EU cohort”.

The first sample figures suggest both the ‘Scotland in UK’ options combined account for 52% but the ‘Independent Scotland’ options combined account for only 40%. The remainder being DK. Lies, damned lies and statistics being borne in mind.

However, it appears that the situation needs to get a lot worse before getting any better, if you know what I mean.

yesindyref2 at 0647pm,

Yes, an interesting idea.

The fact is though, that in my opinion, the only thing which would diminish SNP support, would be a failure to call a referendum in the current circumstances. As we saw with indyref1, we lost the vote, but not the war. The next battle awaits. The referendum needs called.

The people who want independence are not going away – a point which the neanderthal British unionists who are so enthralled with English rule need to get used to..

Re.. Sun Tzu..
I’m not saying you Kangaroo… But there’s been some reference to Sun Tzu before… So just as an FYI!
Sun Tzu is not a person.I
It’s…
The translation of the title “The Art of War”.

Jist sayin,so we all read the comments referencing it right! 🙂