stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Scotland is dead

Posted on December 06, 2017 by

What’s even the point any more?

Even if you don’t buy into any of the persistent health concerns about aspartame, there are already TWO chemically-sweetened Irn Bru brands (Sugar-Free and Xtra) for the people who can stomach the foul taste of fake sugar. But now nobody will be able to choose a version without it.

Alongside whisky, Irn-Bru is arguably THE iconic branded product of Scotland but now 120 years of history have just been casually crapped on and thrown aside in the name of the nanny state and corporate greed (aspartame is dirt-cheap compared to sugar, and Barr – having ruined Tizer, Red Kola and its other drinks the same way years ago – also wants to avoid the UK government’s sugar tax taking a bite out of its profits).

Let’s just shut down Holyrood, rebrand as North Britain and be done with it.

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    1. 06 12 17 13:56

      Scotland is dead | speymouth

    266 to “Scotland is dead”

    1. gordoz says:

      Think that’s what No voting folks hastened in and is now happening anyway as part of Brexit repatriation of powers to WM.

      Nothin’ but cost & pain is coming to North Britain … believe it.

      (Hint don’t believe Tories … EVER!)

      Note : Scottish Tories; are a myth

    2. Normski says:

      Guess I’d better stock up before it is too late. This sucks.

    3. Bastardising IRN-BRU is the last thing I thought it could happen.

      We’re done.

    4. jfngw says:

      Grew up in Edinburgh in the 50/60’s it was always a west coast drink to my mind. I was a Sun Kool Cola boy (Globe).

    5. Bob Mack says:

      There goes the hangover cure. I currently have 2x 2 litre bottles of the true goo in the fridge.

      I hate nanny states where all your health choices are made for you. I have been drinking this stuff nigh on 60 years ,albeit mixed with other vices including cigars and alcohol and I am still here.

      I know the risks. Leave me alone.

    6. mogabee says:

      You know, it’s weird that although I don’t drink as much of irn bru as I used to, this has pissed me off!

      The taste is why people buy it and putting poisonous aspartame in is as good as telling us we are simply unable to make the proper decisions and this is our punishment.

      If this goes ahead what next will we be not allowed to have?

    7. Stewart says:

      For diabetics there is no alternative to the “foul” tasting no-sugar versions.

    8. Kryczek says:

      Good. It’s shite. It doesn’t go with Jack Daniels haha.

    9. Macart says:

      Well damn!

      I’ve never liked the stuff (more of a cola fan), but screwing with the very thing that made your name in the first place?

    10. cirsium says:

      Irn bru has already lost its gingery bite. Why not offer the original drink with the ginger and the sugar at a higher price? That would give consumers a choice.

    11. Muscleguy says:

      While acknowledging that some people can taste/react to phenylalanine you need to be aware Rev that sugar is a non-necessary foodstuff. You do not need it as your body is replete with enzymes to break down carbs into sugars for you. It starts in the mouth with amylase, which is why potato crisps are high GI, amylase gets to work on the starches as soon as you chew them. The unholy trinity hit doesn’t just rely on the sugars in the flavour coatings.

      Anyone who follows your twitter knows that you are a serious sugar addict and damn the dental consequences. But you are flying in the face of scientific reality. I would far rather consume aspartame in tiny amounts (it is 100X sweeter than sugar so you need 100x less of it) than sugar. I NEVER buy or consume sugar containing soft drinks. My only sweets are a very occasional gluten free liquorice. I can make a bag last a couple of months.

      Countless medics, scientists and out and out quacks have tried to smear aspartame without success. I will grant that saccharine is not good and I will not consume that but the others are absolutely fine. Our eldest is Type II, from a chaotic student lifestyle not being obese or even overweight so we are well up on this stuff. She went cold turkey on sugar avoidance. Don’t bother offering her diabetic jam or chocs she is not interested. She seems to have cured herself but apart from the sugars in wine she simply does not consume and she is perfectly healthy.

      This idea you seem to have that sugar is fine and healthy is seriously mistaken. It already impacts on your dentition, it is likely to hit you in other ways which will not be so surgically tractable. I do not wish this on you.

      If you can taste phenylalanine then life will be a bugger but all the sweets and crisps are not a response to that.

      Keep safe, be well.

    12. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I would far rather consume aspartame in tiny amounts (it is 100X sweeter than sugar so you need 100x less of it) than sugar.”

      Fine. So buy the shitty one and leave me alone to buy the one I like. I know sugar isn’t good for me, but I’m a fucking adult. I don’t smoke, I drink very little alcohol, I don’t do illegal drugs, sugar is my chosen – informed – vice. Keep your nose out of it.

    13. Russell Hannah says:

      I thought iI was the only person in Scotland who doesn’t like Irn Bru but I have just noticed Macart doesn’t like it either.

    14. ronnie anderson says:

      Dandelion & Burdock should be brought back

    15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Dandelion & Burdock is still widely available from a variety of manufacturers.

    16. David McKeen says:

      The consumer will have the final say. As they did in the 1980s when Coca-Cola changed their recipe in response to Pepsi’s taste test and the resultant falling sales; the outcry was so loud that, after mere months, Coke had to re-issue the original recipe as Coca-Cola Classic.

    17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “For diabetics there is no alternative to the “foul” tasting no-sugar versions.”

      Fortunately for them (and my dad is one of them), nobody’s proposing to take the diet versions away, so what’s your point?

    18. Yerkitbreeks says:

      Calm down, dear

    19. Black Joan says:

      Not so many years ago our political controllers bribed us to scrap perfectly functioning petrol-engined cars in order to buy diesel ones, because diesel was regarded as the answer to carbon-reduction targets. At the time, warnings about potential damage to health from diesel emissions were ignored.

      Look up “car scrappage” today and the internet is full of incentives to scrap your DIESEL car because of the devastating effect of particulates on the human respiratory system.

      Financial incentives were also doled out for the installation of wood-burning heating systems (reaching the peak of idiocy and greed under the newly famous Arlene Foster in Northern Ireland).

      Again, authoritative and well-argued warnings about the effect on human health were ignored. Until recently. Pollution from wood-burning stoves in urban areas is now a recognised problem.

      Sugar is the latest target. It must be replaced with an artificial substance about which there are countless well-documented health concerns.

      On past reckoning, an epidemic of dire medical problems looks inevitable — and yet it’s all supposed to be in the interests of better health.

      Does no one (except the Rev) do detail anymore? Just like Brexit, really. Nae impact assessments.

    20. Fireproofjim says:

      OT WARNING
      There are scammers about. They phone you and tell you that there is a fault on your computer and claim to be from Apple and Microsoft. Indian sounding voices.
      They are just after your passwords. I have had such three calls in the last week.
      Don’t give them anything other than an earful of swearwords.

    21. Arbroath1320 says:

      WTF!!!

      NOT a happy bunny!

      I admit that we do drink sugar free Irn Bru but that does not mean I’m happy about the loss of what I consider to be “OUR” original Irn Bru.

      What the hell are dentists going to do?

      It wqas thanks, in no small part I’ll bet, to original Irn Bru (other soft drinks were also available) that has kept dentists in business. What will happen now Dentist surgeries closing down due to lack of patients thanks to sugar free Irn Bru? 😀

      Don’t Barr’s realise that we Scots have certain standards to maintain and by going completely 100% sugar free they are destroying these standards? 😀

    22. shiregirl says:

      Why do they do this?

      They did it with HP sauce and it tasted rank.

      Aspartame is a no go in my house. Sugar, in moderation, is fine (in my opinion). Real dangers lay in artificial sweeteners, not sugar. Frankenstein food.

      I say this as someone who follows low carb and gets energy from amino acid breakdown rather than sugar, however I would reach for sugar rather than artificially sweetened foods any day.

      I blame Jamie Oliver.

    23. Jim Graham says:

      I am with you Rev. If you don’t like consuming sugar then don’t consume it but don’t tell me it’s bad for me. I know what it does. I can read and can make my own life choices. Having survived for 73 years it would appear that those choices have been fine.

      It really annoys me when something you have been buying and eating for years suddenly appears with “New Improved Recipe” emblazoned along it’s edge. You just know it’s not improved and you know it will taste like shit.

    24. Capella says:

      Not an Irn Bru drinker but agree that others should be able to choose sugary drinks if they want to.
      It’s not sugar that causes obesity and heart disease and diabetes IMO. It’s animal products and fats. Go plant-based – cures everything.
      Youtube is awash with videos – see Mic the Vegan. And avoid chemicals in your food.

    25. Robert Graham says:

      Remember when IRN-BRU tasted well like IRN-BRU today’s stuff is nothing like it was in the sixty’s i dont know when it was changed probably sneaked up on us when we weren’t looking .

      For years the yanks banned it because the yanks being yanks wanted to know the recipe as with all other things give them the information and hey presto a similar item pops up just by chance .

      Well i guess it wont be banned or questioned now as it will taste like the other junk they sell so no problems , i believe Barr’s got round the food and drink wall they erect to protect their market by altering the ingredients a few years back , because a few x-pat import stores in San Francisco stocked it

    26. Andy-B says:

      I’m not a drinker of the Bru,or any fizzy pop drink for that matter,however I understand why folk are a bit upset.

      I think this one deserves a petition, to stop it.

    27. Robert Graham says:

      Arbroath 1320 ha ha excellent .

      eh google spellcheck dosnt recognise Arbroath maybe check that out

    28. Fred says:

      Folk are obsessed with what they eat noo, and folk are no healthier! I know a life-long vegetarian who took the bowel-cancer & is now on a bag so now eats ordinary grub like pies as the bag can’t cope with turnips etc!

      Depriving your granny of whisky & weans of sweeties & ginger is not the answer to anything! Tempus Fugit!

    29. Illy says:

      “OT WARNING
      There are scammers about. They phone you and tell you that there is a fault on your computer and claim to be from Apple and Microsoft. Indian sounding voices.
      They are just after your passwords. I have had such three calls in the last week.
      Don’t give them anything other than an earful of swearwords.”

      I love these guys, they have no idea how to deal with someone running Linux.

    30. Capella says:

      Coke originally had coke in it. For your health’s sake. But perhaps it’s as well that they removed that ingredient. Or is it?

    31. jfngw says:

      Make your own.

      1/2 pound sugar
      1/2 pint water
      Some DUP colouring
      Sodastream
      Secret ingredient – add some brown sugar

      Tastes just like the original – s***

    32. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Well as a self confessed sugar-a-holic I’ve a confession.

      I find Irn Bru too sugary for my tastes. I am also reminded of my friend’s “diet” where he cut out Irn Bru and full fat Cola and lost two and a half stone in a few weeks. I have a feeling that Irn Bru is really not that good for people.

      That said, I have had grave concerns about Aspartame and won’t drink anything with it in it, so even my accidental Irn Brus will come to an end. I think it’s a major error of judgement by Barrs in anticipation of legislation that I would oppose in any event. The warriors of the Obesity Epidemic that waits round every corner are to blame for this state of affairs, as are the laughable Food Standards Agency which has stood by as supermarkets and coffee merchants have cranked up the amount of sugar and salt in products till they squeak. Products have got unhealthy because regulation has failed.

      I’m with the Rev that I can make an informed choice whether to go for sugar or caffeine if it is available and resent being denied a product altogether to head off a law that the public is not in favour of.

    33. bertybaws says:

      I’m still smarting over Barr’s stopping selling Strike Cola – that was just the thing with a wee voddy. And Jusoda. And the limeade is different too.

      So the only thing left untouched (from my tastebuds point of view, anyway) is Cream Soda. And that always had a lot less sugar anyway.

      I remember the day in Primary 3 that my gran came to collect me from school early – my grandpa managed to secure a wee pensioner p/t job (remember when jobs were marketed as that? – the joys of the 80’s) as a handyman in the brand spanking new Barrs factory in Wishaw, and they had an open day. At age 7-8, it was magical. And sugar laden.

      At high school, 4 rolls and fritter and a bottle of Irn Bru was a regular lunch time staple (I retained my size 32 waist until I started a sit-down job). Wouldn’t have been the same with diet skoosh.

      At college, a galaxy and a bottle of irn bru got me through many a hangover-ridden early morning lecture.

      Irn Bru is still the only thing to drink with fish and chips. Bar none.

      I will mourn the death of the last real ginger.

    34. Morgatron says:

      Its Greedy Barrs fault, nothing to with general or dental health , more to do with profit wealth. Facists.

    35. joannie says:

      After the events of the last few days I’ve got to say I’m surprised to find Wings discussing the burning issue of Irn Bru.

    36. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sugar is bad, m’kay.

      The effects of Childhood Obesity on Self-Esteem
      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1006.6091&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    37. David Arnott says:

      The nanny state is what happens when people lose their sense of personal responsibility.

      People in Scotland want looked after more as the years go by. Whether its whining about how much richer someone else is, or demanding someone pay for their illegitimate children, or how much better off we’d be if it wasnt for (insert socialist victim narrative here).

      Scotland was a highly productive country with a very high rate of education. In those times scots were famously conservative – because thats what smart people are. Idiots believe they can control society and it somehow work for everyone, even the ones who cant control even their own basic urges.

      Last time I was in Scotland I heard a discussion on the radio that nicely summed up the mentality that’s taking over – Who is to blame for violence at football games, the clubs or the government?

      If you read that and dont slap your forehead in a depressed kind of amazement then you personally deserve to live in a nanny state that will ensure that your life is nothing but mediocre.

    38. Bill Hume says:

      cirsium says:
      6 December, 2017 at 2:08 pm

      Irn bru has already lost its gingery bite. Why not offer the original drink with the ginger and the sugar at a higher price? That would give consumers a choice.

      So true. When I was a wean, it really grabbed you by the throat and quenched your thirst. That was back in the days of china stoppers with the wee orange rubber seal(and3d back on the bottle).

    39. geeo says:

      Stopped drinking fizzy juice years ago, never looked back.

      Shove their shite back up their bahooky.

    40. Highland Wifie says:

      Fairly well documented that it’s the interaction of fats and sugar that cause obesity and the key is controlling blood sugar levels.

      Personally I subscribe to the everything in moderation philosophy and will defend to the death the right to choose a drink containing sugar. It tastes better for a start and I can’t bear the taste of any artificial sweetener. (Don’t give me Bacardi and Diet Coke unless you want it thrown back)

      I feel for you Stu. Hopefully the drop in sales will prompt a rethink. So much for the free market and choice.

    41. Bill Hume says:

      I don’t visit Wings as often as many here, but I must ask.
      Who the F*CK is this David Arnott wanker? Have I just missed him before now?

    42. starlaw says:

      must admit to disliking all so called soft drinks, all to sugary, and make me thirsty.

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Some people do taste artificial sweeteners and I don’t mean sweetness. Saccharin tastes horrendously bitter to me.

      Fortunately I prefer savoury tastes to sweet. But that doesn’t mean immunity to sweeteners. A couple of months ago I had an Italian pasta and beef ready meal. I honestly can’t remember the brand. It was disgusting. It tasted dessert sweet and that wasn’t pleasant! A quick check of the label… sucralose ! What the hell was an artificial sweetener doing in a supposed Italian meal? So it went in the bin.

      I was left wondering if I am especially sensitive to sucralose. Surely no one intended that it tasted sooooo sweet?

      So what’s my point? Several really. Firstly, for some people they aren’t a simple substitute because they can taste rank. Also, the food industry is latching on to these things because they are dirt cheap. They are just using ‘health concerns over sugar’ as an excuse, IMO. Also, I think there’s a tendency to make all sorts of food sweet – like introducing baked beans with no added sugar. Whit? Why sweeten ANY beans in the first place?

      Food should say in a clear form, perhaps bigger that the current labelling, what it contains. Fat, sugar, filthy chemicals. Let people decide for themselves. Do NOT slip the filthy chemicals in as if it were some sort of improvement.

    44. Abulhaq says:

      In the Middle East Irn-Bru is an alternative to Coke and Pepsi. The peoples of the region like the taste of real sugar. Flavoured sugar syrup, lemon or rosewater, is a cake and confectionery essential. The new bitter ‘sweetener’ recipe may not go too well.

    45. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I’m staying out of this one, because all of these sugared drinks are complete and utter rubbish and all of them cause real damage to population health.

      I appreciate though that my hardline stance is not shared by all. My own weakness is chocolate, and if they were to start monkeying with that, I would get upset too.

      I’m reminded though of John Reid’s patronising view that the lumpen proletariat should have a right to cheapo health-harming alcohol because it’s their only consolation in an otherwise miserable life.

      And I can’t help wondering if it had been the Scottish Government instead which had introduced the sugary-drink regulation, whether the received opinion on here would have been quite the same… =grin=

    46. heedtracker says:

      Its the little things…

      I freakin love sugar, anything, me. But if its artificial it makes me want to throw up.

      It will be the yoons. Tunnocks have ruined Snowballs too. They used be thick crunchy chocolate but now they’re like fucking robin’s egg shells.

      Bastard yoons and suits, one and all.

    47. heedtracker says:

      If you read that and dont slap your forehead in a depressed kind of amazement then you personally deserve to live in a nanny state that will ensure that your life is nothing but mediocre

      So if there’s a problem, we do nothing, but slap our foreheads?

    48. SmartBadger says:

      Red Kola doesn’t contain toxic aspartame, it contains acesulfame K (which tastes a little better – and at least not toxic). Why can’t they use the same in Irn Bru? Why choose to go with the most hated artificial sweetner?

    49. galamcennalath says:

      joannie says:

      After the events of the last few days I’ve got to say I’m surprised to find Wings discussing the burning issue of Irn Bru.

      Does anyone actually know what happened in the last couple of days? Seems much the same as the last few years – the loony right fighting among themselves, no real notion of what any of them want as a outcome, acting without concern for the wider world, and inflicting widespread collateral damage. Just another week in the UKOK asylum. 😉

    50. G H Graham says:

      I may be one of the few who posts here who has operated 2 sugar refineries. Raw sugar cane is a natural product. Bits not processed for consumption are burned to help fuel the very process that refines it.

      How much refining is dependent on market demands. Basic refining leaves you with brown, demarara sugar, rish in molasses & flavour. Highly refined sugar produces the white granulated sugar we are all familiar with. Its flavour is much reduced but remains sweet.

      However, none of these products are toxic or are unsafe to eat. But like any food you care to mention, excessive consumption can lead to problems. Eat too much fish and you can end up with a lot of heavy metal in your body. Addicted to bread? Then a high gluten diet can lead to auto-immune issues.

      Sadly, governments enjoy controlling a peoples’ behaviour but lack imagination & patience in how to do it so usually take the easy way out by simply banning something or taxing the hell out of it to reduce its popularity (foxhunting, cigarettes, smacking yer kid’s arse, etc).

      So you can stock up with real, sugary Irn Bru and moan to yourself when it runs out or you can write to your MSP and lobby vigorously to reverse this lazy decision.

      Odd though that no one has yet advocated to ban the methyl ester of the aspartic acid/phenylalanine dipeptide even though it has been demonstrated repeatedly that aspartame consumption has no significant effect on weight reduction or diabetes.

    51. Breeks says:

      Don’t worry. We’ll adjust. That comes straight from the heart of a Creamola Foam kid.

      Life goes on. Even if there is always that emptiness gnawing away at your inner soul that something is missing in your life…

    52. JB says:

      I have PKU
      That is the reason for the addition of the line “contains a source of phenylalanine” on items containing aspartame. Aspartame is toxic to me ( probably to everyone). It’s not enough that these people have altered lucozade they’re now doing this to irn bru. Apparently it’s for our own good because we need to have chemicals added to food in order to be healthy. Sugar like all foodstuffs consumed in great quantities is of course harmful to your well being. Aspartame is harmful to me in low quantities and potentially if you consume aspartame in the same quantity as regulations sugary drinks this will be harmful to you too. There are other sweetener options such as stevia which is derived from a plant which would be more palatable if they have to go down this route. However if they are doing this for monetary reasons they may just find that they have killed of the brand with the removal of the original recipe.
      Irn Bru is the only soft drink to outsell coke in a territory. That will no longer be the case. Good.

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      The problem of the nanny state is penalising the majority to cater for the minority (or moronity as it’s known), rather than doing the proper thing and catering for the over-indulgent monority at the same time by providing alternatives.

      I am reasonably allergic to anti-oxidants, particularly articifially added ones, a painful allergy. So, drinking maybe a dozen mugs of tea a day I use Safeway Red Label (Morrisons) but can suffer if I try Typhoo. Add to that, the effect is magnified by bread with Calcium Propionate which I avoid. Yet they now want to add that to flour for the sake of preganant mothers who don’t eat enough Calcium Propionate’d bread.

      Which will totally screw me for my cups of tea. So what do I do – become an alcoholic as I can’t drink tea any more?

      I wish these AH do-gooders would take a one-way Virgin shuttle to the moon and leave me in peace.

      And leave my food alone.

    54. joannie says:

      @galemcennalath – Weak and wobbly May went to Brussels to sign up to a deal that would move talks on to phase 2, then at the last minute got summoned to the phone by the DUP leader and ordered to stop because the deal contained a promise of regulatory alignment between NI and the ROI.

      Scotland, Wales and London all say they want the same deal, David Davis says in the HoC that it will apply to the whole of the UK. Up pops the hard right in the Tory party who say they would rather walk away with no deal than agree to regulatory alignment.

      That’s the short version. Even shorter version – this UK government is not fit to govern and has made the whole country an international laughing stock.

    55. heedtracker says:

      So you can stock up with real, sugary Irn Bru and moan to yourself when it runs out or you can write to your MSP and lobby vigorously to reverse this lazy decision.

      You can eat anything you like til you burst, as long as you burn it off.

      That’s why we’re designed to scoff anything, the human body needs high energy diets. The human brain burns more energy than a Volvo going at 70 mph.

      Unless ofcourse you’re unlucky enough to be diabetic.

    56. Giving Goose says:

      O/T (apologies)

      Just caught up with the news that the former Better Together supporter and Tory MP Jimmy Hood has died (no typo).

    57. frogesque says:

      Bought a bottle of Barr cherryade to drink while walking the dog last night. Could still taste that foul metallic aftertaste after cleaning my teeth this morning.

      Barr are shitting their own doorstep. Either plain tap water in a placky bottle or just wait and have a cup of unsweetened black tea when I get back home from now on.

    58. harry mcaye says:

      I used to enjoy Irn Bru when I was younger – 1970s, 80s. Preferred Coke (full sugar) when I hit my twenties. Have only had a few diet drinks and couldn’t stand them, just felt like I was drinking a chemical. Haven’t had an Irn Bru in about ten years but the last few I had did not do it for me, too much of an after taste. Never found any fizz helped a hangover, surely water is the best for that.

      I’ve recently become a vegan, not particularly for health reasons, but because I’d seen some horrendous stuff on YouTube about the treatment of animals here in the UK (Land of Hope and Glory it’s called if you can bear to watch it). That’s been three months now but I can’t say I feel healthier and that is undoubtedly because I’ve got such a sweet tooth. I eat far too much sugary junk. I drink about 35 cans of Coke a month plus chocolates (just getting to know some vegan chocolates, damn they are good!), biscuits, all the usual. If I could just ditch the fizzy cans I reckon my health would really improve. I have stomach issues which may be down to too much Coke over the past thirty years. Right, that’s it, I’m buying no more of the stuff. If I can cut out meat and dairy, I can do this. I love the plant based flavoured milks so that is the route to go down for me now in my mid-40s. My teeth are great by the way, never had so much as a filling. (“smug git” – everybody)

    59. shiregirl says:

      jfngw says:
      6 December, 2017 at 1:54 pm
      Grew up in Edinburgh in the 50/60’s it was always a west coast drink to my mind. I was a Sun Kool Cola boy (Globe).

      Looked forward to the Globe lorry coming down Leith. Pineapple crush and Limeade. Ahh! those were the days! 🙂

      And macaroon bars…and tablet…

    60. Highland Wifie says:

      @galamcennalath
      Adding stealth sugar to foods that should never be sweet is a creeping virus as practised in the USA. Having recently returned from there I can tell you there is sugar in everything including savoury products and bread. Its addition to bread is the most sinister imo. I found the bread far too sweet when I arrived but by the time I came home after 2 months my tastebuds had adjusted and the bread here tasted strange! Very dangerous.

      On seeing a display of sugar bags in a US supermarket husband remarked ” Why do they need to buy it? It’s in everything anyway”
      Well yes.

    61. handclapping says:

      Its good we didnt get Sarwar
      Fancy a Slab leader with enough foresight to see that his job as a dentist was under threat so he’d be better off as a politician!
      Slab … forethought DOES NOT COMPUTE!

    62. Greannach says:

      Irn Bru is crap compared to Moray Cup.

    63. Bruce L says:

      Don’t understand why they can’t just reduce the sugar content and leave it at that. It’s not as if it would actually reduce the sweetness noticeably, and it’s not as if punters couldn’t add more yourself if they really really wanted to.

    64. Shep says:

      Barr’s in my opinion has been going downhill since they stopped production of Strike Cola (the original version) from my childhood memories, very seldom did i take Irn Bru and I never ever bought into the diet stuff.

    65. Graeme says:

      Illy says:
      6 December, 2017 at 2:44 pm

      “OT WARNING
      There are scammers about. They phone you and tell you that there is a fault on your computer and claim to be from Apple and Microsoft. Indian sounding voices.
      They are just after your passwords. I have had such three calls in the last week.
      Don’t give them anything other than an earful of swearwords.”

      I love these guys, they have no idea how to deal with someone running Linux.

      You’re right Illy, I have a lot of fun with these guys 🙂

    66. Free Scotland says:

      If the artificial colours and the aspartame don’t get you, the sodium benzoate will.

      My body is a temple – milk, water, fruit juice are all it knows.

      It’s funny how labels on drinks that contain aspartame tell you that the drink contains a source of phenylalanine but don’t tell you whether that should be seen as a positive or a negative. What the label should tell you is that, for people who have the genetic disorder phenylketonuria (PKU) or certain other health conditions, phenylalanine can be a serious health concern.

      Phenylalanine can cause intellectual disabilities, brain damage, seizures and other problems in people with PKU.

    67. velofello says:

      And then one comes along – David Arnott:

      The nanny state…when 62% of Scots vote to stay in the EU but the nanny UK “state” decides to leave.

      Scotland was a highly productive country – is it no longer? what changed? UK Statistics perchance?

      Smart people are conservatives, like as those negotiating Brexit?

      illegitimate children .. suffer the children and… I’ve forgotten the rest.

      Mr Arnott, you are needing more than a slap on the forehead.

      back to topic: No salt, no sugar,no sugary drinks – because I don’t like the flavours.

    68. Charles says:

      ..Jesus Christ, never since Gaelic road signage has Stu lost his shit.

    69. Robert Graham says:

      o/t – my thoughts go out to SNP msps at Holyrood , their patience is tested on a daily basis, presently being stretched to the limits by Wullie, Wullies incoherent rants decrying everything and anything Police Scotland do , eh this invoice, this outstanding invoice still not paid by your party Wullie any thoughts on it , or you going to shake yer nut like a bloody wagging dug .

      Oh f/k another lib-dem demanding this and that, personality my language would see me removed from the chamber, the sheer cheek of any of these Unionists parties demanding a limitless supply of cash, while totally missing the cuts from Westminster as ever this doesn’t register.

      My reply to all calls from them for cash would be PFI – PFI that’s where the f/n money is going year on year one billion pounds .

      When did all these English accents in the Tory party start appearing ? that’s two in a row now is there more ? , well I really would be removed after listening to the present arse spouting about ferries, aye right pal .

    70. Albert Herring says:

      Whit the fk’s wrang wi watter oot the tap?

    71. frogesque says:

      @ Charles 4.13

      Best laugh of the day!

    72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      joannie @ 14:58,

      Couldn’t agree more.

      galamcennalath @ 15:39,

      I have the (probably paranoid) suspicion that this was an attempted “fix” by May in cahoots with the DUP that came unglued. An attempt to “bounce” the Irish into backing down after they thought the deal was done.

      Hence the flak afterwards from the DUP about the RoI’s supposed “inflexibility”.

      UKGov misread the EU’s evident willingness to move onto Phase 2 and tried to use the DUP to get it to back down over the Irish border issue at the very last second?

      Misread something about somebody, anyway. All too typical of Tory incompetence. Michael Russel was quite right to lambast them over this. Hopefully we’ll get far more tough talking from the SG from now on.

      Brexit’19 is Suez’56 for neo-imperial slow learners.

    73. Morgatron says:

      What about ALPINE. C’omon us wegies . Couldnt believe it when i saw the Alpine lorry for the 1st time in the Milk. We were all overdosing on Pineappleaid coloured water. Oh happy times, there was so much sugar in it , youre maw eveporated the liquid to get to the lb of sugar that remained for everybodys tea for the week.

      Life was

    74. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For those who don’t have any strong feelings about this but would like to try a wee experiment…

      Take two half-pint glasses and half-fill one with real Irn Bru, t’other with it’s diet version.

      Then top-up both to the brim with vodka/gin/the spirit of choice, neck them at your leisure, then come back and tell us what you think about, well, pretty much anything.

      😉

    75. galamcennalath says:

      joannie says:

      May went to Brussels to sign up to a deal that would move talks on to phase 2

      Could they really have missed that putting NI under a different regulatory regime would a) offend their DUP allies, and b) be seen as an opportunity from Scotland? And, the simple Union saving solution of having the whole UK in the single market a la Norway, would then bounce to the fore?

      Are they really this numb? Are their ‘professional’ advisors as out of touch with reality as themselves?

      As I posted on the previous thread… a conspiracy theorist might consider that this is all a ruse to actually push a Norway solution. Another conspiracy theorist might also conclude this is all to generate a scenario where a cliff jump Brexit ‘is required’.

      Eventually it will become clear, or not!

    76. joannie says:

      @Robert – I strongly suspect what happened is that Arlene was in the loop and agreeing to May’s proposition all along until someone leaked the deal, the loyalist backwoodsman threw a tantrum and started threatening violence, so she quickly scuppered the deal at the last minute.

      Hence the craven attempt to blame the Irish government for all this – nobody can admit in public that the UK government’s policy on Brexit is now being dictated by the UVF and the UDA.

    77. Capella says:

      @ harry macaye – hola to a fellow vegan. I did go vegan for health reasons and also to stop supporting factory farming and destruction of the environment. See Cowspiracy, Forks Over Knives and many others on youtube or Netflix.

      Ticks all the boxes for me.

      What is a problem is the misleading messages promoted by the food industry for profit. Regulation is definitely necessary otherwise they would return to filling your bread with chalk. Maybe that’s what the added calcium is.

      “Normal” Coke is sweetened with High Fructose Corn Syrup which is not normal at all but is a by product of agri-business. Fructose is much more toxic than cane sugar.

      There’s no alternative but to read the labels and always check who funded the research.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      this was an attempted “fix” by May in cahoots with the DUP that came unglued. An attempt to “bounce” the Irish into backing down

      A reasonable theory! I am literally at the stage of not having a clue what Pervidious Albion is up to, or even wants!

      From the outside, it appears astonishing incompetence, indecision, arrogance, and poor understanding. Yet is seems SO over the top as to sometimes leave the suspicion that it is underlain by some very clever plan!

    79. ScottieDog says:

      I was at a school Christmas fair at the weekend. In the cafe area One of the parents would only get her child sugar free iron bru. The child proceeded to empty the sugar bowl into the can.
      Hilarious.

    80. Capella says:

      Beautiful 10 minute video of Finland which is celebrating 100 years of independence. Set to Sibelius’ “Finlandia”. Eweered by Lesley Riddoch.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5zg_af9b8c

    81. Robert Kerr says:

      @Giving Goose

      Jimmy Hood was my MP. I trust there are hot coals awaiting him.

    82. Tatu3 says:

      I miss Creamola Foam too. Only drink Cola if I have a dodgy tummy. Have never liked Irn Bru. I try not to drink anything with Aspartame. Should be banned. Natural sugars in moderation far more healthy than chemicals in our food and drink.

    83. CapnAndy says:

      Abulhaq.
      You raise a good point. Irn-Bru is also popular in Russia. So, are we going to have an export version that’s high in sugar?
      ‘Irn-Bru Export’, now that’s something the marketing folk could play with.

    84. galamcennalath says:

      In the 70s there was a cider company which seemed to have its products draught in a lot of pubs. There was the lovely Dry stuff, which I like and was most common. Then there sometimes was the Gold, a little sweeter. And another less common Special one.

      Time passed and I drunk less in pubs. The said cider seemed to become less common.

      A few years ago I took the notion to buy some in cans to rekindle youthful drinking pleasures. Yuk!!

      A bit of Internet research revealed all. The independent company of the 70s was taken over. The recipe was changed, yet in its West Country heartland customer demand mean original recipe was used for a while there. Finally no draught. And, horror of horrors, artificial sweeteners were added to the product!

      Cider food quality rules seem particularly lax! Some cheap brands contain very little of what traditionally we would call cider! Sugar, sweeteners, and added alcohol … then just enough apple juice yo be legally called cider.

    85. Truth says:

      As I never knowingly consume aspartame and most other artificial sweeteners, I won’t be buying any.

      Then again, their continued use of tartrazine prevented me from doing so anyway.

    86. brewsed says:

      I generally prefer my sugar to have passed through the metabolic pathways of Saccharomyces cerevisiae before consumption as the raw ingredient is, in large and persistent quantities, toxic. Sugar(s) come from a variety of sources and my current favourite is from grains of barley which have been steeped in water for a while, allowed to sprout (a process which converts complex starches to simpler sugars), cooked in a kiln (which kills the growth, and does some more sugar conversion) then steeped in hot water to extract the sugars which are then eaten by the Saccharomyces which poop out CO2 and C2H6O. The resultant effluent can be bottled, stored in the garage for a month or so then the brown fizzy water (plus some C2H6O) can consumed at leisure. Some practitioners concentrate the C2H60 by evaporating it off, cool the evaporate in a worm(!) and store the liquid in a wooden barrel for many years. I am told this is a popular pastime in Dufftown.

      Somehow, adding aspartame to some other, less interesting, brown fizzy water, really doesn’t sound like the end of the world.

      Cheers.

      PS. I am getting fed up with the popcorn. Is there no suitable Scottish alternative? Haggis Nuggets anyone?

    87. HandandShrimp says:

      Can’t do Aspartame, it leaves a weird taste in my mouth that I can’t shake off. Sooner just drink water than a lo cal drink. In fact I quite like water.

    88. scunner says:

      The Bru gives me the boak. Used to drink the Moray Cup when a wean. Ah gether they’re stoppin’ that too.

      Only occasionally have a diet Pepsi to dilute the Rum, can’t drink the full-fat version as it makes the mouth “furry”.

      Rev’s right of course, as the Bru would only be available in poison-laced versions and that’s not on – all to cut tax/keep profits.

      On the OT subject of the Scammers, the latest I had was a mail in Pidgin English, reporting they’d virus-injected a wee program and hijacked the webcam, catching me fiddling with my nether regions – pay up in Bitcoin or we’ll send video to your nearest & dearest.

      Shame my monitor doesn’t have a webcam.

    89. joannie says:

      Why are we discussing Irn Bru again? There’s clearly something I’m missing about this orange soft drink, massively important as it no doubt is.

    90. haudonthenoo says:

      Ah Creamoala : best in a large glass topped with ice cream (vanilla of course).

      Always thought it better than sex . Guess at age 12 thats the way..

    91. stu mac says:

      @Bob Mack says:
      6 December, 2017 at 2:01 pm
      I hate nanny states where all your health choices are made for you.
      ===================================

      So you hate the SNP state I presume where you can’t smoke in a bar and there’s a minimum price alcohol limit imposed by government?

      Sometimes governments go a little too far (I actually agree with the SNP policies I mentioned) but there are situations where it’s a good idea for them to impose rules. In fact whenever I see the the phrase “nanny state” (and “PC gone mad”) I reach for my revolve…well at least I look out for Tories.

      Just cause the Rev has a bee in his bonnet about this doesn’t mean we all have to agree with it. I actually don’t care one way or the other but I can hardly believe it’s been put forward as some kind of attack on Scottish identity.

    92. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Kerr Ah hope no any common or shale coals . Anthracite burns Hotter .

    93. Craig P says:

      The Bru Will Nae Do

    94. Kevin Cargill says:

      First time I’ve disagreed with you but I’m with the health experts on this one. Your idea that adults are capable of choosing for themselves ignores the addictive effect of sugar. It also ignores the effect on child obesity and teeth. Why don’t you and the rest of the sugar addicts not lobby for licensed sugar bars where you can drink full sugar versions of your favourite drinks!

    95. TheWasp says:

      Clackmannanshire had Hoggs who made a better “iron brew” than Barrs and when I lived in Ayrshire I always thought Curries was better too.

    96. Balaaargh says:

      Can’t abide aspartame, sucralose or saccharin. No objection to stevia glycosides though, at least it is a natural plant extract like sucrose.

      Haven’t touched irn bru or any other soft drink in over a year. Water and coffee is pretty much all I drink these days

    97. stewartb says:

      To those querying if there is a ‘clever plan’ behind all that’s happening on Brexit, see this article at the link below (with thanks to a BTL contributor on Derek Bateman’s blog for the link):

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-brexit-was-engineered-by-foreign-billionaires-to-bring-about-economic-chaos-for-profit/5614194

      Its scary stuff – and for even interested members of the public (‘alert readers’) it is so hard to verify all details and claims.

      However, as someone who dips into sources that evidence the ever growing concerns of progressives in the USA about the present state and emerging, further threats to their country’s democracy, economy and society from shadowy corporate elites and their right wing political friends, I fear we in the UK are being led further down a US-style path to what will become a far worse place for the many.

      The EU is far from perfect but preferable I suggest by far to being subservient to the interests of big business and the very wealthy, US-style. There is still a complacency at present in too many quarters about what these powerful ‘elites’ really wish post-Brexit over the longer term that I fear we will look back on with regret.

      As the FM presses for the political opponents of the Tories to come together and back an insistence on Single Market and Customs Union membership, she and her party (yes those same ‘narrow nationalists’ much derided by Labour activists in Scotland) are the ones actually displaying significant, practical ‘solidarity’ with the many across the UK that will suffer the consequences if Tory choices on Brexit go unchecked.

    98. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Fully agree with you @G H Graham says at 3:41 pm (and Stu), we are responsible for what we eat.

      “none of these products are toxic or are unsafe to eat. But like any food you care to mention, excessive consumption can lead to problems.”

      Thanks for the flashback @Breeks says at 3:42pm haven’t thought about Creamola Foam for years.

      You can try these guys:

      https://www.scottishretrosweets.com/sweets/krakatoa-creamola-foam/

      “Krakatoa Foam – 6 Fantastic flavours of the new Krakatoa foam! Formerly known as Creamola Foam.”

    99. cearc says:

      Ian B,

      Great idea, nothing like informed research,

      Of course, if like me, you don’t like any sweet drinks you could leave the fizzy stuff out!

    100. Edmund says:

      Aspartame tastes like tinfoil.

    101. Robert Kerr says:

      @Ronnie

      Best Welsh Anthracite from the Valleys.

      Leanne Woods would approve. her being a coal-miner’s daughter.

      Nane o yer sons and daughters o the manse. The’re no socialists.

      Now aff tae imbibe. Ale and Guid Islay Malt.

    102. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @cearc –

      🙂

      I don’t drink spirits now but used to love whisky & coke. The guys I worked with would give me a hard time over it, but my reasoning was that if it was good enough for The Beatles it was good enough for me. Can still *remember* the taste of it – soo-perb!

    103. galamcennalath says:

      joannie says:

      There’s clearly something I’m missing about this orange soft drink

      Personally, I don’t like any sweet drinks. Well, I can enjoy a wee Drambuie.

      I think the importance, if that’s not too strong a word, of Irn Bru is it’s one of those many subtle things which make Scotland different and in some ways define it in this modern interconnected world. There are things like tartan, Scotch, kilts. But there is something more ordinary, of the people, about a weird popular soft drink. Allegedly Scotland is the only country in the world where Coke isn’t No1.

      Another would be square sausage. Or haggis, porridge, or a traditional Scotch pie.

      Although Irn Bru, it has to be said has had some pretty successful hard nosed promotion and advertising.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wMs5bUkjO0

    104. galamcennalath says:

      TheWasp says:

      when I lived in Ayrshire I always thought Curries was better too.

      Ayrshire also had Turner and Ewing from Kilmarnock.

    105. Robert Graham says:

      o/t – The Donald strikes again, short of launching a Nuke strike on North Korea, there he goes with his big bloody boots stamping all over the Middle East , I don’t believe that this misguided presidential balls up has been thought through, other than to bow down to vested interests .

      This statement will go down like a lead drone strike, and the fallout has yet to be seen , the most dangerous country on the planet the USA the big kid on the block and out of control , and might mean all other countries taking the view and questioning who exactly is the biggest problem the greatest threat to mankind .

      What say you Mrs Mayhem still backing the Donald and all he does .

    106. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Graham – wouldn’t surprise me if declaring Jerusalem to be the Israeli capital was a price extracted in exchange for votes or support in electing Trump POTUS.

    107. joannie says:

      @galamcennalath – thanks for the explanation. I’m guessing its as if the Irish government interfered with the recipe of Guinness?

      Ah well, Brexit will still be there to moan about tomorrow.

    108. Bobp says:

      Waiting on the maybot poodle (trumps bitch) coming out with her “owner “and recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.

    109. jfngw says:

      Those that oppose the named person scheme have then just got to live with the current situation were some children slip through the system.

      Their need for individual privacy outweighs the children’s needs, they then must accept the horrendous abuses that come to light are a price worth paying. Although I suspect a number of those opposed would accept it if they could limit the scheme to what they see as the lower orders.

    110. manandboy says:

      Nowadays what’s in IrnBru is not nearly as problematic as the plastic bottle it often comes in.

      Plastic in the ocean is like a Landfill in Morningside.

      Drink oot ae cans, aw the time. Wull ye no. Gonnae?

    111. nelmaggie says:

      Standard Irn Bru is the only fizzy drink left on the market that doesn’t contain aspartame. Soon there will be none. Whatever happened to consumer choice?

    112. Fergus Green says:

      In the 60s Smiths crisps came in a bag, unsalted but with a wee blue poke of salt which gave the consumer the option of salting their crisps to taste. if I remember correctly, there was 100% uptake of the saltmax option. Maybe Irn Bru could do something similar, take out the artificial sweeteners and give the customer an orange poke containing 9 spoons of sugar (which is the average sugar content of a non-diet soft drink tin) and they can add as many of these 9 spoonfuls as they wish, sweetening to taste.

      They could even call it Irn Bru Indy.

    113. ClanDonald says:

      Do not drink or eat toxic sweeteners, they are chemical products manufactured by big pharma like Monsanto, they cause cancer and other serious health problems. Also they taste crap. Keep them away from your kids.

      Eventually they will cause more health problems than sugar ever did.

    114. Tam the Bam. says:

      I hated and resisted the ‘smoking in public places’ legislation 2006 but here we are 11 years down the line and finds me a non-smoker for 4 years this very month.Resistance is futile Stu…they getcha in the end.

    115. katherine hamilton says:

      O/T
      Trump and the Middle East. Brexit.
      W.B. had it.

      Turning and turning in the widening gyre
      The falcon cannot hear the falconer,
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold,
      Mere anarchy is loosed on the world.
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

      WB Yeats: The Second Coming.

      (PS. The second stanza is scarier! Check it out.)

    116. Legerwood says:

      brewsed says:
      6 December, 2017 at 5:24 pm

      PS. I am getting fed up with the popcorn. Is there no suitable Scottish alternative? Haggis Nuggets anyone?
      …………………

      Don’t know about Haggis nuggets but I did see Haggis and Cranberry crisps the other day – very seasonal.

    117. David says:

      Note that new recipe Irn-Bru will have only 45% of the vote, err I mean the amount of sugar which it used to contain- 4.7g as against 10.3g per 100ml.

      Policy decision by Barr to reduce sugar content to avoid paying WM imposed sugar tax on drinks. It’s all about the $$$$ for Barr’s, not about the taste, nor about customer satisfation.

      Hey Rev Stu, really surprised you didn’t post any of 2000AD’s relevant comic strips about the Mega-City white powder pushers…

      🙂

    118. Legerwood says:

      Fergus Green says:
      6 December, 2017 at 7:19 pm
      In the 60s Smiths crisps came in a bag, unsalted but with a wee blue poke of salt which gave the consumer the option of salting their crisps to taste. if I remember correctly, there was 100% uptake of the saltmax option.
      ………….

      No there was not 100% make-up of the salt option because sometimes the wee blue bag of salt was missing! A real b****r. Probably why they changed to pre-salted crisps.

    119. Gfaetheblock says:

      I get confused by the nanny state. Help me out, when it is named person or minimum pricing it is good, but when it is sugar tax to battle obesity it is bad?

    120. Dr Jim says:

      All to save those of us who are perfectly able to resist consuming vast quantities of ..stuff!

      Sugar’s a good energy source trouble with it is the people who guzzle it down in monsterous amounts don’t move their Arses to use the energy it provides

      When I was growing up there was one fat man in my street, yes one, he was what we used to call well off so he could afford to buy and eat and drink as much good stuff as he wanted, and he did
      The rest of the street was skinny because we walked to school (in my case 3 miles away) ran for the bus, played outside at running about games and when we grew up because of that we still do it rather than guzzle on our Arses
      My point is we did stuff and that’s most of the problem today not flaming sugar, we don’t do stuff with our legs like moving them about the way we used to have to because we had no choice in the matter

      So for those of us who have sufficient willpower to avoid death by over consumption of anything we must be made to suffer for the sins of the few for the sake of the possibly guzzling many (sorry couldn’t resist that)

      Breathing is very good too if you can avoid bus and taxi fumes, so take them off the road health police and save us all instead of introducing fake tax on stuff then pretending it’s all for the good of our health

    121. mike cassidy says:

      Thank you Mr and Mrs Barr.

      I’ve started drinking Irn Bru after years of not doing so.

      And all its done is turn me into a Gaviscon addict.

      I’ll soon be raiding my elderly mother’s repeat prescription cupboard.

      So bye bye the big IB.

      Fergus Green 7.19

      The trouble with those blue salt packs –

      You always ended up pouring them over one crisp –

      especially if you were operating in the dark of a cinema!

      As for popcorn enthusiasts.

      Are you insane?!

      http://archive.is/nDtPl

    122. Ian Mackay says:

      It’s all about the sugar tax.

      As the Rev says there are already two artificial sweetened brands of Barr’s Irn Bru out there.

      So the customer is already spoilt for choice for a sugarlite option. It makes no sense for another product to go down that line.

      Still, I’m consoling myself that the Westminster sugar tax might convince Barrs to actively support independence this time around.

      In the early years of the Union in the 18thC the Westminster Malt Tax imposed on the Scots very nearly broke the Treaty. Would be fitting if the Westminster Sugar Tax helps breaks the Treaty of Union now.

    123. Breeks says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      6 December, 2017 at 6:36 pm
      Robert Graham – wouldn’t surprise me if declaring Jerusalem to be the Israeli capital was a price extracted in exchange for votes or support in electing Trump POTUS.

      Good and very credible connection made there Meg. Method in the madness right enough, even if it is grotesque and psychotic method.

      The sad thing now is the inevitable protest and perhaps even a new intifada where Palestinian despair takes on 21st Century weapons with inevitable results, and the world will do nothing to stop it, and Trump will have all the blood on his hands and revel in it. I am too sad to be angry. No need to look for monsters under your bed kids, just turn on your TV.

      Seems too that David Davis is going to get away with the disgraceful dishonesty about Brexit Impact Assessments. I don’t know which is worse, the dishonesty, or the actual failure to consider the consequences. What we are seeing in these Brexit shenanigans is all so very, very far removed from a healthy modern democracy.

      In Scotland it feels like the calm before the storm. The last outpost of sanity amid the anarchy and chaos. Maybe Scotland ought to think about our own Scottish Statue of Liberty; Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free…

      I might tweak the text… Send us your believers and we shall look after them.

      Come on Scotland. Let’s do this…

    124. Tam the Bam. says:

      Breeks @ 7-46pm

      Does Donald Trump ever solicit the opinion of others?…I mean..anybody?….does he ever watch tv..listen to news on the radio?….do you think he has a bestest friend who might pull him aside for a word in his ear?Its like allowing a 5 year-old into the White House and saying..’Now be careful and not do …’ and of course that’s exactly what the 5yr old goes and does….that’s because he/she is 5years old….”YOU ARE THE POTUS YOU ORANGE IMBECILE…….EITHER SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT!

    125. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re creamola foam . On Arran , we used to have wee holsters to hold the creamola foam containers and a spoon, we used to drink it in pubs with vodka and as the pubs didn’t have creamola foam we used to take our own, get it foaming add the voddy and back in a one er 🙂 I’ve got some of that modern stuff, got a charity racenight coming up after Christmas , think one might have to resurrect it 🙂

    126. Tam the Bam. says:

      Creamola Foam….done it/loved it.

      Here’s another….Nesquick (non-fizzy).

    127. Ian McCubbin says:

      This one just shows where the real politics of people lies.
      I sit on the fence dont like Irn Bru, sorry.

    128. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Stevia, from a leaf, is a sweetener that is at least ten times sweeter than sugar

    129. Stuart McTavish says:

      Agree with the irn bru sentiment, cant get it where I am but hoping its fake news for advertising purposes.
      Re-branding as north Britain might not be quite as self harming as previous cunning plans though – tame an influential Yorkshireman, foster positive influence north of Bath and suddenly an EU border from the Humber to the Severn starts to look feasible ..

    130. msean says:

      Is there nothing they won’t leave alone. I can’t see me buying that if it’s ruined.

    131. Shinty says:

      Cremola or Creamola Foam (only remember the former) was a big treat when visiting my Grand Parents (we never got it at home or anywhere else).

      I thought it originated from Glasgow but over the years the original recipe got lost (for some reason or another).

      No matter, it was a rare treat back then.

    132. Muscleguy says:

      @Rev Stu
      1. In the NHS funded by common taxation we all have a stake in bad health behaviour.

      2. I note you do not mention any exercise. I can tick all your boxes AND add distance running. I’m also older than you at 52.

      3. The dentist and dental hygienist both tell me I have the best oral health they have seen in some time. I have a mouthfull of amalgam from a sugar laden childhood. Most installed without anaesthetic by school dental nurses in NZ using treadle powered drills. My last dental work was also carried out sans anaesthetic due to my non normal facial nerve anatomy. I cracked a cuspid, probably on a nut.

    133. Scotrock says:

      Is this really an necessary discussion. Some are making Rock look sensible. No mean feat that

    134. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Stuart McTavish @ 20:35:

      suddenly an EU border from the Humber to the Severn starts to look feasible ..

      Which also has to include Londinium somehow but absolutely can’t cross the waves to NI ‘cos Arlene says “no” even though a majority there voted Remain…

      …aaaargh, my brain is starting to melt…

    135. heedtracker says:

      Gfaetheblock says:
      6 December, 2017 at 7:35 pm
      I get confused by the nanny state. Help me out, when it is named person or minimum pricing it is good, but when it is sugar tax to battle obesity it is bad?

      Maybe making sugary foods and drinks taste awful, is part of their cunning plans too.

    136. PacMan says:

      Gfaetheblock @ 6 December, 2017 at 7:35 pm

      I get confused by the nanny state. Help me out, when it is named person or minimum pricing it is good, but when it is sugar tax to battle obesity it is bad?

      Minimum pricing mostly affects the 3 litre bottles of strong cider.

      The strong cider is binge drunk and the immediate intake of large quantities of alcohol in a short period causes a hit very similar one experienced by heroin users. Apart from serious negative health effects for individuals, such drinking habits causes a wide range of social issues.

      Certainly excessive sugar intake causes health issues but not as bad as strong cider and certainly not the social issues as the other causes.

    137. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Scotrock (8.49) –

      Hear ye, hear ye indeed, but perhaps this relatively light-hearted topic (it *is* light-hearted, right?) is providing some relief from the fantastical bollocks happening all around us?

      😉

    138. galamcennalath says:

      Never liked Creamola Foam as a child. Now I know why …

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creamola_Foam

      …. it always contained saccharin:(

    139. Tackety Beets says:

      Vody n Irn Bru was my tipple in the 90s , 1/2 Tin with first Vody then 5 Vods to a tin after that, bet it would taste crap with either o the 3 current options.

      I remember the very first sip o ReedBul , def reminded me of creamola foam.

      Muscleguy, thanks for the info detail , time to check all this out.

    140. Gregor says:

      UK Gov National Planning Framework: Impact Assessment: “…play a key role in helping achieve sustainable development, optimising outcomes across economic, environmental and social objectives to secure net gains for society…National planning policy has too often excluded local communities and failed to promote local participation.” https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11804/2172846.pdf

    141. Lenny Hartley says:

      Just caught the end of a program about a Bronze Age find in Carnoustie, BBC presenter calls it a North British hoard but the Gold it’s decorated came from England or Ireland!!!

    142. Stuart McTavish says:

      RJS @ 8.50

      Half the EU leaving fee ought to cover relocation assistance to Europhiles to move north and vice versa.
      Once the border is on UK mainland – Ireland can happily continue with its current arrangements.

    143. Bob Mack says:

      @Stu Mac,

      I also parachute and scuba dive which are potentially hazardous. Why not stop these activities as well ?. Both have potential health repercussions.

      What I do ,I do through choice and I don’T need advice from “Nanny” in Hollyrood regardless of political hue.

    144. Meg merrilees says:

      X_sticks

      Indy app fully funded and one hour to go… well done all and sundry who have contributed. Another weapon in our Pro-Indy armoury.

      Currently on £13,352 of £12,000

    145. Meg merrilees says:

      Sorry, should read… one hour ago.

    146. Meg merrilees says:

      O/T
      Meant to post yesterday –
      Heard a great item on Woman’s Hour taking about Nursing being in crisis in ‘this country ‘and they had got in a spokeswoman from Nurses’ training to discuss the problem.

      She started by saying:
      The real problem lies in cuts to training in England.
      In Scotland there is an increase of +9.2% in numbers being trained,
      In Wales +6.4% but in England it is -2.6%.

      This is because Jeremy Hunt has removed £1.5 billion from training funds which covers bursaries to help them pay for accommodation, food and living costs and training fees as you can only train through a University now. This has impacted hugely on numbers of women coming forward to train and especially on mature women who want to train at a later stage in their life.

      Amazingly, she wasn’t interrupted or hustled off the microphone.

      So the next time it kicks off in Holyrood, remember Scotland has 9.2% more nurses in training than England.

    147. geeo says:

      Barrs are cutting sugar because of the ‘sugar tax’ not because Holyrood ordered from up high.

      It is 100% a pure business decision.

      A point which seems to have been lost.

    148. Jimmy says:

      Barrs drinks have been going down the toilet for many a year. Regular Irn Bru has tasted foul for years now anyway. Must be a slow news day or something.

    149. heedtracker says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      6 December, 2017 at 9:34 pm
      Just caught the end of a program about a Bronze Age find in Carnoustie, BBC presenter calls it a North British hoard but the Gold it’s decorated came from England or Ireland!!!

      Was it the very poash English women, Neil Oliver’s her loyal Scotch pet? If it was, she airbrushes Scotland out everything the BBC now do about archaeology, UK and European.

      Her and Neil did a major BBC archeo thing recently about the Celts of Europe and why they died out. It was good, but not a mention of Scotland whatsoever.

      Even a rich but very slimy creep like Neil Oliver could have at least have said that the Celts of Europe live on today, in his own country but no. This is how ingrained and aggressive, anti Scotland propaganda is within the BBC today.

    150. ScottieDog says:

      O/T
      Folks if you want delve further into britains deep state I recommend this film.
      You can do group viewings. Be good for a branch night if you’re affiliated..

      http://spiderswebfilm.com

      The sort of shit that gets dredged up..
      http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/britains-tax-office-hmrc-sold-600-state-owned-buildings-offshore-property-company/

    151. Andy smith says:

      For those advocating low fat ‘healthy’ diet I suggest doing more research into the myths surrounding dairy products and heart disease/bad cholesterol, no link has ever been proven between dairy fats and higher instances of heart disease.
      Low fat spreads including margarine are more detrimental to our health,

    152. defo says:

      Full marks to AG Barr marketing dept.
      Bluffing.

      Born Embra, but teen years suffered in Bathgate, in the 80’s.
      Irn Bru/Cream soda border-land.

    153. heedtracker says:

      Andy smith

      So saturated fat does raise not your orchestral level, furring up your arteries?

      Atherosclerosis is a problem for slim and fat people?

    154. Andrew Davidson says:

      Diabetic here. This is ridiculous. I’ve got Xtra or the diet one (well, I do when I’m in Scotland) so this doesn’t impact on me. This isn’t a health decision but a business decision based on cost.

      I’m ignoring all anti-sweetener crap because that’s all it is but there’s no good reason to do this to the non-diet variants. If you’re concerned about sugar in diets then educate people.

      Tell you something else; if this actually was purely about health outcomes then they’d use stevia (plant extract like sugar) instead of aspartame but tellingly, it costs about 5 times as much as aspartame.

    155. ALANM says:

      Anyone remember the iconic tv ad which ended with the line “if we all drink as much as we can they’ll be none left for the english?”

    156. Odet says:

      heedtracker

      Yes

      But the yhears of scaremongering made a ton of money for “healthy” margerine producers.

    157. ronnie anderson says:

      The Tories will reinstate the windae tax next, jist think aw they wummins favourite pastime Windae Shoppin stopped LoL ..

    158. @Muscleguy

      `I have a mouth full of amalgam`

      don`t know about NZ but amalgam fillings in UK are used with mercury,

      one of the most poisonous metals to be found,

      still using mercury for fillings in children and pregnant woman,

      mercury is capable of crossing through lipid layers at membrane barriers of the brain and placenta,

      my own view is a connection with mercury fillings and dementia/alzheimer’s,

      also what happens to the mercury when bodies are cremated.

    159. Gfaetheblock says:

      Pac-Man,

      65% of Scots are overweight and 29% obese. That is a public health crisis

      http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Health/TrendObesity

    160. heedtracker says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      6 December, 2017 at 10:40 pm
      @Muscleguy

      `I have a mouth full of amalgam`

      don`t know about NZ but amalgam fillings in UK are used with mercury,

      one of the most poisonous metals to be found,

      still using mercury for fillings in children and pregnant woman,

      Its a mercury alloy.

      Its harmless in this alloy. Dentistry uses a lot of metal alloys that are rather poisonous in the single state but safe as alloys.

    161. dunsey says:

      This is my first ever comment but after 4 years of following wings over Scotland I would never have believed that while everything is going on with brexit and all the people relying on food banks to keep themselves living, who I’m sure would love a bottle of the ‘ shitty stuff ‘, this site has spent hours talking about how much sugar is in Irn Bru

    162. pacman says:

      Gfaetheblock @ 6 December, 2017 at 10:45 pm

      Pac-Man,

      65% of Scots are overweight and 29% obese. That is a public health crisis

      http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Health/TrendObesity

      Added sugar to foodstuffs is a contributing factor to weight issues in most western societies population but surely it can’t be considered the sole cause?

      The past 30 years at least in Scotland has seen a shift from physically demanding jobs to more sedentary ones. In recent times, we are leading a more sedentary lifestyle with the advent of tablets, the internet, digital TV etc.

      The result of both of these is that we as a society are less active than we used to be. We could eliminate all added sugar to processed foods but we would still have an obesity problem.

      Therefore, state intervention through minimum pricing is justified for the reasons I mentioned but state intervention in sugar content can not be justified.

      BTW, I am not defending added sugar to products. I enjoy the occasional cake and the occasional can of ginger but just can’t all these per-processed crap that’s riddled with sugar. For those who defend such things, I suggest they make a simple pasta sauce of canned tomatoes and tomato paste. Upon tasting that it is doubtful they will go back to the jar variety.

    163. PacMan says:

      Had forget to mention, Gfaetheblock, that minimum pricing isn’t going to solve alcohol abuse but is going to stop a form of severe harmful abuse where the alkies will have to switch to the cheap rut gut that is a lot harder to drink and they won’t be able to binge drink in the quantities that they can do with the strong cider.

      As they are forcing people to switch from a harmful substance to a slightly less harmful substance, I’m not sure how that can be defined as nanny state interference?

    164. HandandShrimp says:

      A tad blowy out and we are supposed to be in the yellow zone. Batten down the hatches and stay safe in the amber zone looks like it is going to be a stormy night.

    165. heedtracker says:

      Our relentlessly ghastly teamGB media have been working like the gimps they are for the tories this week.

      Graun, how comes its the UK and not the tories, and their rolling catastrofuck of the UKOK millennium? because we’re all scumbag tories now.

      Two days to go or we have to listen a whole winter beeb gimp vote tory propaganda.

      http://archive.is/PuZlo

      “A failure to move talks on in December would mean that the terms of a transition period could potentially only be discussed after the next European council summit of leaders in March, by which time key businesses in the UK will have had to make decisions over their location and investments in the country.”

    166. Hamish100 says:

      So the idiot Davies has no idea on the effect of Brexit. Really? I think we all know. the brexiters can’t bare the thought that they have made an arse of it and don’t want a written record to show they knew.
      The Tories and good governance? Davidson how can you make decisions agreeing to Brexit when you have no plans as to what the possible consequence may be on our industry, staffing levels in the NHS, food and hospitality industries.

      You are on the same side of the right wing extremists such as Johnston Fox and co.

      You rather see Scotland and its people suffer so you can sook up to your political masters in London. Morality?

    167. Hamish100 says:

      So the idiot Davies has no idea on the effect of Brexit. Really? I think we all know. the brexiters can’t bare the thought that they have made an arse of it and don’t want a written record to show they knew.
      The Tories and good governance? Davidson how can you make decisions agreeing to Brexit when you have no plans as to what the possible consequence may be on our industry, staffing levels in the NHS, food and hospitality industries.

      You are on the same side of the right wing extremists such as Johnston Fox and co.

      You would rather see Scotland and its people suffer so you can sook up to your political masters in London. Some Morality?

    168. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker says:
      6 December, 2017 at 10:13 pm
      Lenny Hartley says:
      6 December, 2017 at 9:34 pm
      Just caught the end of a program about a Bronze Age find in Carnoustie, BBC presenter calls it a North British hoard but the Gold it’s decorated came from England or Ireland!!!

      Was it the very poash English women, Neil Oliver’s her loyal Scotch pet? If it was, she airbrushes Scotland out everything the BBC now do about archaeology, UK and European.

      Her and Neil did a major BBC archeo thing recently about the Celts of Europe and why they died out. It was good, but not a mention of Scotland whatsoever.

      Even a rich but very slimy creep like Neil Oliver could have at least have said that the Celts of Europe live on today, in his own country but no. This is how ingrained and aggressive, anti Scotland propaganda is within the BBC today.
      …………………………..

      Pity neither of you watched the entire programme which was all about Scotland – Bronze Age, Iron Age, Romans and even the Scottish presence at the Battle of Newark during the Civil War in the 17th Century as well as 5000 year old settlements in Orkney.

      But hey, let’s have a rant about Professor Roberts saying North Britain, once, during the piece from Carnoustie. A piece which showed that the people in that area had connections stretching to Europe. And yes the gold came from England or Ireland and they knew that because they had analysed it – something scientists tend to do. This analysis giving further evidence of the connectedness of the people in the Bronze age settlement with other parts of the British Isles and Ireland.

      There was lots of Scotland, Scotland, Scotland …Scotland in this programme. Pity you did not watch it and so find out more about the History of Scotland you are always saying is not taught or is deliberately hidden from you.

      There are times and programmes when such criticism may be justified but this was not one of them.

    169. Brian McHugh says:

      I switched to beer long ago.

    170. les rice says:

      FFS. So aspartame drinks are now going to fck me up? As a diabetic I welcomed the Irn Bru Xtra because I like the taste. Very much in fact.
      I’m going back to beer.

    171. Thepnr says:

      @Legerwood

      I’d be interested in knowing how you can determine the origin of gold (or any other metal) from “an analysis of it”.

      Have any links explaining this process?

    172. schrodingers cat says:

      pnr
      gold is generally impure, 14-18 c, getrting 24 carat pure gold is quite a difficult process

      it is the impurities that they measure, eg irish gold has lots of copper in it, hence its redish coulour,

    173. mike cassidy says:

      Thepnr 12.19

      They were discussing the geographical origin of the gold objects.

      Historical comparisons.

      Here’s an example of them doing it with gold objects found near Stirling.

      https://www.nms.ac.uk/explore-our-collections/stories/scottish-history-and-archaeology/iron-age-gold-torcs/

    174. Thepnr says:

      Thanks for the info guys, amazing what you can learn on Wings.

    175. Thepnr says:

      @mike cassidy

      Just watched the short video of the guy who found the Iron Age torcs and am amazed at the intricacy of them. Pretty neat work for back then.

    176. Rock says:

      heedtracker,

      “You can eat anything you like til you burst, as long as you burn it off.

      That’s why we’re designed to scoff anything, the human body needs high energy diets. The human brain burns more energy than a Volvo going at 70 mph.”

      Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, the human body needs many different types of nutrients to remain healthy.

      Although the pharmaceutical companies are very happy with the “scoff anything” diet because they make trillions out of unhealthy people.

    177. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Davies and the lack of Brexit impact assessments. This suggests that the policy is ideologically driven, i.e. it has no basis in empirical reality and so can not be justified as being in the interests of public welfare. Though an apparent democratic process was followed, Brexit is an example of what damage the New Right and a right-wing press can do to a society. Not forgetting the role played by the BBC, of course.

      Dimensions of Public Policy: Values, Processes, Implementation, and Results

      Public policy has many dimensions. In this chapter we look at a number of them. We begin with normative dimensions of public policy: the importance of values that underlie policy choices. We consider human rights, political and social rights, and the role of ideology in public policy as a social practice. Important to normative dimensions of public policy is one’s view of the capacity of human intellect. Looking at those different assumptions, the chapter explores several normative models such as utilitarianism, Rawl’s principle of justice, and others. With this foundation, the chapter then turns to the question to the process of policy – how the various stages of policymaking have been conceptualized. Finally, we examine models that focus on the later stages of policymaking – the implementation and realization of policies and the outcome of policies. Were they carried out as intended and did they have an effect on society?

      http://www.martinpotucek.cz/index.php?option=com_rubberdoc&view=doc&id=7&format=raw

      The Relation between Ideology and Decision-making

      ABSTRACT

      This article focuses on discussing existences of ideology and decision-making as well as the influence of ideology on decision-making. The contents of ideology include intrinsic, constructive, and bestowal and inventive existences. A psychological cognition model is presented to state the formation of ideologies. To express the existence of decision-making is easier than that of ideology because simple or complex decision-making is made everywhere and at any moment. Analytical, behavioral, directive, and intuitive decision-making styles are proposed in the paper. Six steps for decision-making form a cyclic process to obtain effective decisions. Finally, the correlation between ideology and decision-making is addressed and the role of ideology in decision-making is suggested to express the impact of ideology on decision-making.

      http://www.jgbm.org/page/20%20Dr.%20Sea-Shon%20Chen.pdf

      The Role of Fantasy in Public Policy Formation

      Abstract

      The function of ideological fantasy as a facilitator of social and political action has seldom been given adequate emphasis in public policy theory and analyse. Yet the emergence of new fantasies of ‘what should be’ is a core driver of the evolution of governance policy formulation. This chapter will explore the role of fantasy and argue that an understanding of the role of ideological fantasy is necessary for an effective theory of evolutionary governance. The chapter will begin with a Lacanian derived elucidation of fantasy and its constituents. This will include an exploration of the psychoanalytical role of fantasy, discourse, jouissance (Lacanian enjoyment arising from the unconscious) and the subject’s underlying desire for a sovereign good that will solve all problems and wants, so as to create the worldly impossibility of being free of anxiety and all other insecurities. Core to this exposé is the role of ideology, which is most powerful when subjects believe that they are free of its influence.

      For ‘ideology exerts its hold over us by means of this very insistence that the Cause we adhere to is not “merely” ideological’ (Žižek (The ticklish subject, 2nd edn. Verso, 2008a), p. 10). Glynos and Howarth’s (Logics of critical explanation in social and political theory. Routledge, 2007) three logics (social, political, fantasmatic) of public policy formation will then be explored to consider the multiple dimensions that fantasy plays in the evolution of public policy. These dimensions include: what is being promised, justification as to why this is often not being delivered, and the diverse ways that fantasy induces desire in the subject and allows a particular policy formulation to ‘grip’ the subject. The chapter will conclude with a consideration of what a deeper engagement with ideological fantasy might mean for evolutionary governance theory.

      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-12274-8_10

    178. crazycat says:

      @ Thepnr

      Further to what the other cat said about gold composition, the provenance can sometimes be determined down to individual workshop level from the proportions/impurities.

      Years ago I was part of a project to analyse a collection of Scythian and Sarmatian gold, some of which was electrum (gold-silver alloy), using non-invasive techniques. It could quite clearly be sorted into different groups, which were presumed to correlate with sources of the raw material. I don’t think the research was ever published, unfortunately.

    179. Chick McGregor says:

      Heedy

      “Just caught the end of a program about a Bronze Age find in Carnoustie, BBC presenter calls it a North British hoard but the Gold it’s decorated came from England or Ireland!!!”

      Yes Heedy, a significant tell on the English mindset, quite ridiculous and all the more so because the time concerned was centuries before any English migrants had come to Britain at all so an area which could be called England did not even exist.

      If anything the term ‘South Britain’ for England would have been contemporaneously far more appropriate.

    180. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t think Davis can keep his job, frankly. I don’t think Scotland’s public welfare is best served by Westminster.

      The UK Civil Service

      Facts, Analysis and Comment.
      Consultation, Exploring Options, Impact Assessment, and Unintended Consequences

      There is nothing a government hates more than to be well-informed; for it makes the process of arriving at decisions much more complicated and difficult. – John Maynard Keynes

      http://www.civilservant.org.uk/policy_making-consultation_and_impact_assessment.html

      Regulatory impact assessments: guidance for government departments
      https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/impact-assessments-guidance-for-government-departments

      IMPACT ASSESSMENT GUIDANCE

      What is the purpose of this guidance?

      1.This document sets out government policy on the scope and process of Impact Assessments. In particular it will:

      ? Help you understand what an Impact Assessment is.

      ? Clarify what types of intervention require an Impact Assessment.

      ? Specify when and how often an Impact Assessmentneeds to be completed and published.

      ? Set out what approval is necessary before an Impact Assessment can be published.

      2. The step-by-step guidance on how to complete an Impact Assessment is provided by the Impact Assessment Toolkit (IA Toolkit). The IA Toolkit is tailored to meetthe needs of both policy makers and economists involved in preparing impact assessments. (www.bis.gov.uk/ia-toolkit)

      3. In particular, the IA Toolkit has a section summarising appraisal and evaluation methodologies and techniques that will help you with monetising, as far as possible, the costs and benefits of proposals to beincluded in the impact assessment. It draws on, and is consistent with the Government?s appraisal methodology set out in the Treasury?s Green Book and its Supplementary guidance- http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/data_greenbook_index.htm and the
      policy evaluation, as set out in the Magenta Book.

      http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:/www.web.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/better-regulation/docs/10-898-impact-assessment-guidance.pdf

    181. Dr Jim says:

      Shock Shock Shock!!!

      BBC text services are supporting Scotlands health figures as miles better than England NIreland Wales
      I didn’t note down the % because I was so taken aback at all the good stuff they were reporting

      If you’ve got BBC you gotta see this

    182. artyhetty says:

      Re;Chick Magregor @2.16am
      and Heedy

      Looked up about the Carnoustie Bronze Age find. Good site called, ‘historyscotland.com’, info on Scotland’s historical finds etc, really interesting.

      Also far as I know the ‘Viking hoard’ has been secured for the National Museum of Scotland, was worried it could have ended up in London like many things do, like the Lindisfrane gospels etc.

      Re; Irn Bru, I quite like it but not a fan of sugary or artificially sweet drinks. Sugar is everywhere, the shops are full of sweet stuff. Much more than they have choice of vegetables! Not sure artificial chemicals being consumed are any better than lots of sugar. We just need to reduce sugar in foods, full stop. The UK is very reliant on having a population with a sweet tooth. Money.

      UK= little America, without the Rockies, or the Grand canyon, or the hugely patronised arts and what used to be very well funded sciences.

      Fab eh.

      Scotland, beautiful country, great people, we can’t allow the rUK to ruin what’s been achieved in the last 10 years.

    183. Breeks says:

      Hamish100 says:
      6 December, 2017 at 11:49 pm

      So the idiot Davies has no idea on the effect of Brexit. Really? I think we all know. the brexiters can’t bare the thought that they have made an arse of it and don’t want a written record to show they knew.
      The Tories and good governance? Davidson how can you make decisions agreeing to Brexit when you have no plans as to what the possible consequence may be on our industry, staffing levels in the NHS, food and hospitality industries.

      And all of this hollow, unsubstaniated rhetoric about Brexit from the same pig ignorant BritNats who attempted to discredit Scottish Independence with their constant gripes and hectoring about what currency we’d use, and how many ships we’d have to defend ourselves and all such similar irrelevant minutae.

      Aye, after this Brexit debacle, don’t ever let any Unionist ever get away with describing Independence as a step in the dark.

      Don’t suffer their quips about “we haven’t costed this”, or “we don’t have an answer to that”. These xenophobic cretins have agitated the UK public into the greatest peacetime calamity which might destroy a countries economic prosperity for decades to come, and they’ve been making it all up as they went along. No strategy, no direction, no impact assessments, no method, integrity, or honest principle to be seen.

      These? These are the people who dispute Scotland’s sovereign rights and capacities to govern ourselves and make our own decisions?

      Thank you David Davis. Than you for so publicly and thoroughly discrediting the obnoxious arrogant pretence that’s Scotland’s best economic interests are safe in Westminster’s hands. You’re nothing but an amareurish bunch of clowns talking out of your backsides and Scotland has no business even listening to your shite.

    184. Still Positive says:

      Breeks @ 3.04

      Totally agree. Well said.

    185. ScotsCanuck says:

      getting back tae IrnBru … I’m shocked … liked IrnBru , but I LOVED Red Kola (especially with a smoked sausage supper !!) ….. the lyrics of REM, “it’s the end of the World (as we know it)” are ringing in my ears !!!

    186. Al Dossary says:

      Is it beyond the scope of reality that they have done some Impact Assessments, but are terrified to release them.

      Gove will be gone within the week, becoming the fall guy and will be rewarded at tbe end of this parliamentary term wit astoat lines cloak (eg become one of the Ermine vermin).

      In any other profession he would be renoved from theor professional body.

    187. Spout says:

      @Muscleguy at 2.09pm

      Excellent comment.

    188. John Dickson says:

      Was weaned of sugary drinks when I discovered King Goblin, although I do imbibe the occasional ginger beer (Stoney, imported from South Africa) and available from a butcher in Corstorphine, near Murrayfield.

    189. David Caledonia says:

      I was in a shop yesterday and there was a woman and man buying about 50 cans of Irn Bru, and i thought what the feck, are they living on that stuff because that was all they where buying
      Now i am not a connors sour on any kind of lemonade, but even i know that’s you really can’t live on it, and its not good for you, it can actually give you a sore back lugging the stuff hame lol
      If and when i do take a notion to buy some teeth rot, i usually but Bars Cream Soda, a lovely drink when taken in moderation, and when asked what he missed most about scotland, the great Kenny D, agreed wae me, so there ye have it, its your choice what ye drink as i allways say, but when yir at the bar, make mine a double, now that is worth drinking….. cheers

    190. Ffc1997 says:

      Barr’s have already done the dirty on Falkirk, Irn Bru’s birthplace, stopped recycling the bottles and the deposit for return, and STILL CHARGE THE SAME AMOUNT FOR THEIR GLASS BOTTLES! Profits are immediately improved by 25p a bottle with no costs for recycling the bottles and the eco positives that brings with it. Their plastic bottles litter our streets – usually still half-full. ?

    191. jfngw says:

      Spotted the nana deal or no deal link, just assumed that Noel Edmonds was taking over the negotiations with Arlene Philips as the banker. What box will we go for?

    192. jfngw says:

      Also watched the BBC News report regarding fake news, they used the fake bombing picture of the Muslim woman walking past a victim and told the children that it had emanated from Russia.

      There is no actual proof it was from Russia, its just an assertion as far as I can tell, are the Russian really that rubbish at the internet and disguising themselves. Great example of fake news for them to start with then.

    193. jfngw says:

      Arlene Foster not Philips (must be confusing her with hot gossip dancers).

    194. @heedtracker

      mercury in fillings is safe ?

      then why,

      Some countries – Sweden last year, and Norway, Denmark and Germany, have banned or restricted the use of mercury fillings,

      `Health Canada advises pregnant women in need of a filling to wait until the baby is born before they go ahead with the procedure.`

      why if it`s safe?

      fillings wear down and most Scot`s have a good half dozen and the mercury is absorbed into the body,

      like lead pipes and asbestos it should be banned as a major health hazard.

    195. Greannach says:

      You can get Creamola Foam again only now it’s called Krakatoa Foam. Still as fabulous as ever. One of my 5-a-day.

    196. mike cassidy says:

      Nana

      loved the link to the EU fake news list.

      To think those nasty eurocrats were going to interfere with the bagpipe!

      http://archive.is/DSAN4

    197. ahundredthidiot says:

      oh get it up ye Rev, you might be an adult but theres eijits oot there giving it to their weans.

      stop greetin and put six spoons of sugar in yer ginger if you really need to.

      Not without solution, slap a 16 tag on it and quadrouple the price. anyone daft enough to drink it can have their pockets picked…….eberyones a winner.

    198. Bobp says:

      Breeks 3.04am. Great post. Spot on as usual.

    199. Mike d says:

      Dr jim 2.43am. Methinks there’s a motive to the BBC extolling the scottish nhs. Maybe they are trying to get more yer’s to immigrate to Scotland to finally outvote us.

    200. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledger wood @12:03 did Roberts say North Britain or Scotland if she said North Britain and then said the Gold came from South Britain then there would be no issue, however she didn’t therefore
      I am correct in calling her out for it. I don’t pay the propaganda tax so only caught the end whilst visiting a neighbour. However I will try and get to see the rest of the program when it is repeated, Do you remember the program Oliver did last year about Maes Howe? North Britain this and North Britain that ,not a mention of Scotland in the three programs apart from one academic who uttered the S word when being interviewed. There is a systemic program by the BBC to belittle Scotlands history and Culture and it needs to be called out when it is observed.

    201. Dr Jim says:

      Fizzy Vimto with a fish supper
      can’t be bettered, it’s perfect bliss, wine without alcohol, brilliant

      Not the diet garbage, that’s orrible

    202. Andy says:

      must be something wrong with my tastebuds as I can’t tell much difference between the new zero drinks and the full sugar counterparts.
      Also think we are verging into conspiracy theories that every country and cancer board says Aspartame is fine but everyone is blaming every disease on it.

      However we had full sugar drinks long before we had an obesity crisis so not sure why they are to blame.
      As people have been reminiscing when I was a kid we had plenty of sweets and sugary drinks and there was maybe 1 fat kid in the year.
      What we didn’t have when I was a kid was McDonalds, burger king etc etc

    203. galamcennalath says:

      When I was a kid, a bottle sweet fizzy drink was a bit of a treat. No one I knew could afford to drink them all that often. Certainly not every day.

      No one bought them during the school day, I am certain of that.

      So how much was really consumed in the 50s and 60s when sugar was ubiquitous? Probably a lot less than memories at first suggest.

    204. Brian Powell says:

      BBC on fake news gives the BBC the perfect opportunity to create more fake news. As the Brit MSM is shit and we will be cut off from real news out of the EU, remember the Government is looking to take control of social media so we will be cut off, the only option is to see every ‘newspaper’ journalist and TV presenter as the enemies propaganda outlet and therefore the enemy too.

      Only rational course of action.

    205. Chick McGregor says:

      John Dickson

      OT just FYI I am a big fan of the great English artist Ed Org who drew the Goblin on the label.

      He is fantastic and quite literally so, since he mainly does mythologically inspired work which is a kind of modern melding of Rackham and the Pre-Raphaelites. But better, IMO.

      He mainly does females and works by capturing a look on their face which has an inner quality he wishes to express and then brings it out and enhances it in his artwork in a way that no other artist I know of can match.

      https://www.pinterest.co.uk/obsidianartgal/ed-org-art-by-ed-org/?lp=true

    206. Nana says:

      @Mike 10.18am

      There’s a lot of hilarity in that list. I chose the one about shellfish needing rest breaks, to think some folks actually believed it. I seem to remember a woman on QT whose reason for voting out was ‘straight bananas’

      Is it any wonder politicians can hoodwink some people so easily when they are primed by the media to swallow any old guff.

    207. Meg merrilees says:

      Mentioned few times up thread…
      Waiting times in A&E – Scotland leads the way, BBC article on website.

      I agree with Dr. Jim, maybe they’re talking it up to get more ‘Outer Scotland’ people to move north.

      The data compiled by the BBC shows a significant difference in performance against the four-hour target for treating or admitting patients.
      In Northern Ireland, which has seen the biggest rise in people coming to A&E units, just 75% of patients were seen in four hours in 2016-17, whereas Scotland saw 93.9% – only marginally lower than the 95% target.
      In fact Scotland is the only part of the UK performing better than it was four years ago.
      England has seen the biggest rise in long waiters – a 155% increase. In Scotland the number of long waiters actually fell by 9%.

    208. Dr Jim says:

      Couldn’t afford Irn Bru when I was kid, maybe once a week but that had to be shared out but Andrews liver salts were cheaper accompanied by a piece n sugar with stork marge, then came the Alpen man in his truck once a week, man that was living

      Halcyon days

    209. Highland Wifie says:

      Nana 11.08
      Funny I can’t find anything on the BBC website (or any other msm) about the Catalan march in Brussels…….
      Complete news blackout?

    210. frogesque says:

      Been gold panning on and off for over 20 years.

      Scotland had and still has plenty of easily accessible alluvial deposits.

      Likewise Ireland and Wales.

      Apart from very scarce local deposits, Cornwall and Lake District, England has practically no useful or usable deposits.

      For anyone to suggest that Scottish artifacts were made from gold of English origin is absolute bollocks! The gold may well have been traded or stolen by the English (who didn’t exist as a nation in the bronze age) but there is no way it came out of the ground or rivers in what is present day England.

    211. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Hugely important facts on the NHS from yer actual BBC
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42254413

    212. HandandShrimp says:

      Dr Jim

      Alpine Shirley?

      A muesli lorry would not have been an excitement to me as a kid.

    213. Meg merrilees says:

      Loving the front pages of the newspapers today.

      The National is BRILLIANT – Blank page – this is the UK’s Brexit plan – geddit?
      The Daily Record thinks it’s pantomime time

      Brexit supporting papers have lots of squirrel articles.

      But the ‘broadsheets’ actually think May could be gone this weekend – fingers crossed, although who will replace her- Rees-Mogg?

      Meanwhile, in the real world… Trump may be about to tip the Middle East into turmoil with his Jerusalem announcement and simultaneously, he is winding up N. Korea as more than half of the population of Yemen is dying from hunger and the Western world is going into shopping meltdown for Christmas.

      What a mess the human race creates!

      And so to FMQ’s!

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 7 December, 2017 at 2:43 am:

      “Shock Shock Shock!!!
      BBC text services are supporting Scotlands health figures as miles better than England NIreland Wales.”

      It really isn’t all that shocking, Dr Jim.

      The CEEFAX text service first reference to A&E waits comes under, “MAIN Headlines”. It is headed, “A&E ‘Intolerable’: How’s your hospital doing?”

      The article itself begins, “The number of long A&E waits across the UK has more than doubled … “.

      It then only mentions N.I. and England telling that N.I. has the worst performance but that England has the fastest deterioration. Neither Scotland nor Wales is mentioned.

      This is the BBC, in their, “Main Headlines”, getting the idea across that there is just , “The NHS”, and no mention that there are separate NHSs in the different countries and many readers will only read the Main Headlines and may even not read the actual articles.

      Then BBC repeats the Main Headline article in the UK News section and Scotland is not mentioned there either,

      The exact same story is used in the Politics section.

      The exact same article is on the, “HEALTH”, Section.

      Under the heading, “England”, the text service first has regional text sections in which they then split the English regions up into further smaller areas and I’m not about to trawl through then all. Suffice to sat there was absolutely no references to A&E figures in the ones I chose at random to check out.

      Then, Under WALES, they had a different take for Welsh readers that blackens the Welsh A&E services but without and mention of England.

      Under the Northern Ireland headings there is no direct mention of A&E figures but an item headed, “NI emergency departments among slowest”. It begins, “Four on Northern Ireland’s five health boards are among the 10 worst emergency department performers in the UK.

      The BBC seems to be under the mistaken impression that the I.O.M. and Channel Islands are parts of the United Kingdom as they are included in the BBC Text Service Heading, “AROUND THE UK”. Unsurprisingly there is no mention of NHS included under that heading as the I.O.M. and Channel Islands are nothing to do with the Westminster Government.

      Only under the heading, “SCOTLAND”, do the BBC acknowledge that Scotland’s NHS has not only performed better than all others but has actually seen a reduction in A&E waiting times of 9% the quoted figures for England rose 155%.

      Thing is who, outside Scotland, will read the Scottish Text reports? In fact even most Scots do not read the BBC text service.

      In effect we have had the usual BBC blatantly biased propaganda hatchet job throughout the entire BBC networks. What else would you expect from The Blatantly Biased Corporation that is he BBC.

    215. Wullie says:

      Is it not the case that NHS England was abolished in 2012 and replaced by the health and social heath care act. made more easy to privatise

    216. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This is my first ever comment but after 4 years of following wings over Scotland I would never have believed that while everything is going on with brexit and all the people relying on food banks to keep themselves living, who I’m sure would love a bottle of the ‘ shitty stuff ‘, this site has spent hours talking about how much sugar is in Irn Bru”

      What would you like us to say about Brexit and foodbanks? Every paper and TV and radio station is talking about Brexit endlessly, there seems little need for us to echo them. And I’m pretty sure everyone here has the same opinion about foodbanks: it’s good that they exist but an outrage that they NEED to exist. There, happy?

    217. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Standard Irn Bru is the only fizzy drink left on the market that doesn’t contain aspartame.”

      Well, not quite – Coke, Pepsi, 7-Up and a few others are still all-sugar, but the number is falling by the day.

    218. admiral says:

      @ Robert Peffers.

      Absolutely agree re BBC misleading reporting re “UK” health service figures. No mention that one of the “equal partners (feel the LURVVVVVEE!!!!!!)” in that UK has improved figures, not worse figures.

      At best, it is the usual imperial arrogance of the conflation of “England” and the “UK” as one and the same.

      I wonder if this sort of report will feature in the BBC’s “fake news” syllabus for schools. (har, har, har…).

    219. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “then came the Alpen man in his truck once a week, man that was living”

      You had a guy delivering muesli door-to-door? Fancy!

    220. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yes Robert, why don’t the BBC simply state to all regions and to the whole UK, that Scotland’s strategy around social care has paid off?

      You don’t need to answer that, we all know.

    221. ronnie anderson says:

      Dunsay . something to get your teeth into ( did you read Nana’s links )

      http://www.scottishparliament.tv

    222. Gregory Beekman says:

      Science has finally caught up with the mistakes and bribery of the last half of the 20th century and beginning to explain why obesity rates have doubled since 1980, and why there’s now more obese people on the planet than malnourished people (yeah, what a statistic!).

      When cholesterol was first measured, they could only measure total cholesterol – now we know there’s many types of cholestorel and it’s the VLDLP type formed by sugar consumption that causes athersclerosis, not fat consumption.

      Fat is good for you and salt is NECESSARY for life and low-salt diets are now shown to KILL. Please increase your salt consumption (human skin is like a camel’s hump, it stores excess sodium).

      Fasting is now the big reveal – if you stop eating say 8pm at night, don’t eat again until about 12 noon the next day. This lets your body’s insulin levels fall to zero, which helps ‘reset’ how your body responds to that hormone. Basically, fasting reverses insulin-resistance, leading to weight loss and better biomarkers in various systems.

      So I’m all for a sugar tax and reducing the amount of sugar in products. But it’s silly to replace the sugar with something else – they’d have been better slowly reducing the sugar levels over time, like 10% reduction every six months or something.

      But we have an epidemic on our hands – obesity and diabetes, causing us all a fortune in NHS bills to deal with it. Sugar needs to be regulated like alcohol and tobacco.

      2000AD was well ahead of us all, as I remember old Judge Dredd stories where sugar was an illegal substance!

    223. Fred says:

      Oliver is a creep but Dr Roberts prog’ was excellent. Anent the gold, you can make a case for Ireland as the origin geographically but neither Scotland or England existed.

      Checked the supporters list for a replacement for Creamola Foam & notice that Jackie Baillie is amongst their number. Just sayin!

    224. skozra says:

      Ah the Alpine man , those were the days. And Bon Accord around the same time. I’ve always been a Barr’s Irn Bru drinker, however as I’ve gotten older I’ve found myself enjoying the Sugar free variety much *much* more than the original kind. Used to hate the Diet Irn Bru when it first came out (it seemed so tasteless), but the later Sugar Free variant ticks all my boxes now.

      Irn Bru Xtra, tried it recently but hated it. Too sickly. If Irn Bru ordinary starts to taste along the same lines as the Xtra, then that does indeed make me sad, they’d be ruining the original imo, even though I no longer drink the stuff (preferring Sugar free as said).

      Also, Irn Bru always tasted better from the glass bottle than it ever did from the plastic ones.

    225. skozra says:

      Forgot to mention in my post above, Fiesta did a nice Iron Brew drink – they were around at the same time as Alpine and Bon Accord, delivering bottles of ginger to the schemes of the east end of Glasgow.

    226. Jack Murphy says:

      Re Nana at 7:05am
      LINKS:
      “…………https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/ …….”

      A short sample of UK journalists and their role in the UK withdrawal from the European Union:

      ‘EC regulations to ban playgrounds – Daily Express

      Rolling acres outlawed by Brussels – The Telegraph

      EU to scrap British exams – Sunday Express

      Obscure EU law halting the sale of English oak seeds – Mail on Sunday’

      The list continues… 🙁

    227. Richard MacKinnon says:

      Eventually the penny drops. “Let’s just shut down Holyrood, rebrand as North Britain and be done with it”.
      Well done Reverend.

    228. Robert Graham says:

      I wonder if the English navy’s new boat will stock IRN-BRU or will British whisky take precedence alongside British haggis ..

      I wonder where it was built anyone know because that hasn’t been mentioned yet

    229. heedtracker says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      7 December, 2017 at 9:56 am
      @heedtracker

      mercury in fillings is safe ?

      then why,

      Its mercury as an alloy Scot. Alloys are metals that are formed under very high temps and are safe, very safe.

      Its easy to get paranoid but we are surrounded by much more toxic substance almost all the time, eg pesticides in farm production, diesel fumed air we breath in our city centres, let alone booze and fags, mostly booze though. That’s as good as anyway of shortening your life, danaging you brain, and everyone else’s around you to boot.

      In much the same way women are advised to not drink and smoke while pregnant, women do not get fillings while pregnant, not because of mercury poisoning but because it is a invasive surgical procedure, with all the risks that surgical procedures carry, usually infection.

      This is why your average dentist is called a dental surgeon. Every time you get something done at the dentist, you’re undergoing quite serious surgery.

      In other words, brush your teeth, regularly and properly.

    230. heedtracker says:

      Richard MacKinnon says:
      7 December, 2017 at 12:16 pm
      Eventually the penny drops. “Let’s just shut down Holyrood, rebrand as North Britain and be done with it”.
      Well done Reverend.

      Only the Britnats in Scotland could hate Scotland that hard Richard.

      Do you work at the BBC Scotland freak show too Richard?

    231. Legerwood says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      7 December, 2017 at 10:35 am
      Ledger wood @12:03 did Roberts say North Britain or Scotland if she said North Britain and then said the Gold came from South Britain then there would be no issue, however she didn’t therefore
      I am correct in calling her out for it. I don’t pay the propaganda tax so only caught the end whilst visiting a neighbour. However I will try and get to see the rest of the program when it is repeated,
      …………………..

      The entire programme was on Scotland And featured digs in various parts of Scotland. Throughout the programme Professor Roberts spoke about Scotland and some of the scenes were filmed in the National Museum of Scotland.

      The particular section you saw on the Bronze Age village in Carnoustie came about half way through the programme. During the piece she once, correctly in the terms of a Bronze age village, referred to North Britain. Scotland as we know it would not emerge for another couple of millennia at least.

      The Bronze age was roughly from 3000 BC to 1500 BC

      When it came to the gold decorating the spear they suggested some sources and at the end of the piece when the analysis of the gold had been carried out they said it had likely come from Ireland or perhaps England.

      Many, many BBC programmes can be justifiably criticised for their Britain = England mindset but not on this occasion.

      As to Mr Oliver, he is not in the same league as Professor Roberts, not even in the same ball park. I have seen Professor Roberts hold an audience in thrall speaking for almost two hours without notes and with only a short break. Oliver does not even come close. Check out her CV.

    232. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledger wood, re Roberts, don’t get me wrong I know what your saying about her, I have a couple of her books. However in the context of Scotland not being in existence and North Britain being the correct term , I don’t disagree however in the same context England and Wales were not in existence either!

    233. Richard MacKinnon says:

      heedtracker
      7 December, 2017 at 12:23 pm
      I dont hate Scotland and I dont think The Rev does either. It seems Stu (I see him as a friend now) has come round the reality that is Scotland’s place in the the union, all be it, it has taken him three years to get there.
      And no I dont work for the BBC.

    234. heedtracker says:

      Oliver does not even come close. Check out her CV.

      So how comes her Celts of Europe BBC block buster er, blocked out, blatantly lied about the Celts, that they had died out in Europe, after being wiped out by the Roman Empire?

      Legerwood, archaeology is subjected to the same academic rigour as any other field of study, yet this beeb ligger completely destroyed her reputation, with those BBC telly Celts of Europe progs alone.

      Not only did she blot out the existence of Celtic Scotland today, but she deliberately excluded as fascinating a Celtic history, a gripping a Celtic story as any, wiped out in the Iron age by Rome.

      Further Legerwood, she wilfully excluded a giant part of not only British history but world history too.

      Its only because the might of the Roman could not conquer the Celts of Scotland, our predecessors, that England exists as it does today.

      And if there was no England, had the Romans defeated Celtic Scotland, the whole course of world civilisation may well have been completely different, suffering a savage Georgian and Victorian British empire for example.

      She’s a disgrace to archaeology, or a merely just another UKOK propagandist/hero. And ofcourse, she’s a great British BBC sponsored nationalist, just like her useful loyal Scotch idiot Oliver.

      Either or, we are all losing out, thanks to beeb chancers like this.

    235. misteralz says:

      And today, as Finland celebrates its centenary of independence, everyone is forgetting to ask the important questions – what currency did they use? How did they manage without oil? How did it feel making family in Sweden into foreigners?

    236. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Richard MacKinnon ( I see him as a friend now) LoL Ah don’t think the Rev’s intae Bromancing .

    237. heedtracker says:

      Richard MacKinnon says:
      7 December, 2017 at 1:03 pm
      heedtracker
      7 December, 2017 at 12:23 pm
      I dont hate Scotland and I dont think The Rev does either. It seems Stu (I see him as a friend now) has come round the reality that is Scotland’s place in the the union, all be it, it has taken him three years to get there.
      And no I dont work for the BBC

      So you dont hate Scotland, you just want Scotland to be called North Britain, now.

      Nice. Personally I have no problem with being told my country no longer exists and that I am now North British too.

      See, any airse can fart it out with relative ease Richard.

    238. Richard MacKinnon says:

      heedtracker
      7 December, 2017 at 1:23 pm

      This is not about what we call Scotland. Call it what you want. Im happy with ‘Scotland’.
      You are missing the point. This is not about a name, it is about Scotland’s place in the union, finally confirmed on the 18.09.2014 after 300 years.
      Once you accept The Referendum decision the next obvious question to me and it now appears The Reverend is, what is the point of Holyrood? What role does it play? Is it worth it? Is there a better way to run Scotland?
      It sounds as if you are a bit depressed Heedtracker. Dont worry, the next step is, Acceptance.

    239. heedtracker says:

      It sounds as if you are a bit depressed Heedtracker. Dont worry, the next step is, Acceptance.

      So we just scrap Scottish democracy Richard?

      Its interesting that a yoon like yourself in North Britain, is now monstering Holyrood, with the aim of turning it into a Tesco 24. Scotland’s gone, now we destroy democracy in Scotland, kind of UKOK domination. Westminster can ofcourse do that, and who knows, with Brexit, they may well do so, with yoon cheerleaders like you in North Britain doing your yoon stuff.

      Certainly BBC Scotland are desperately trying to destroy Scottish, sorry North British democracy, but can you lot succeed though Richard, what with latest YES polls at 47%, higher than 2014 polls too?

      I guess its yoon culture in North Britain’s only route now, you cant beat the SNP with the BBC and all the rest, so you go after Scots democracy itself.

      What ever happened to the great UKOK The Vow shyste 2014, Cammers and his Lead don’t Leave the UK begging and weeping, Richard?

      Anyway keep watching BBC Scotland and STV Richard, its like being in a yoon bubble of North Britishness.

    240. Chick McGregor says:

      At least the currently on radar NHS stats will keep SNHS Bad = SNP Bad off Pravda Quay output for a day or two, maybe even three.

    241. heedtracker says:

      Chick McGregor says:
      7 December, 2017 at 3:10 pm
      At least the currently on radar NHS stats will keep SNHS Bad = SNP Bad off Pravda Quay output for a day or two, maybe even three.

      Oh Chick, bless your sweet youthful innocence , some might say you are jejune even.

      If innocence, comes out WoS btl as incontinence, its not me, its chrome spell checker!

    242. Jack Murphy says:

      misteralz said at 1:10 pm
      “And today, as Finland celebrates its centenary of independence,…….”

      Here’s Finlandia by Jean Sibelius,Finland’s greatest composer.

      This stunning 9 minute video includes the familiar ‘Finlandia Hymn’.
      Happy Independence Finland.
      ENJOY. 🙂

      https://tinyurl.com/ybqa6lsy

    243. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker @ 1.08 pm

      I did not see the programme on the Celts to which you refer therefore I am not going to comment one way or the other until I have done so. I can, and have, commented on what I do know. Let’s leave it at that but for your information:

      Professor Alice Roberts:

      “”She was a medical student at University of Wales College of Medicine (then part of the University of Wales, now part of Cardiff University) and graduated in 1997 with a Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery (MB BCh) degree, having gained an intercalated Bachelor of Science degree in anatomy.[7][10][11][12]

      Research

      After graduating in 1997, Roberts worked in clinical medicine as a junior medical practitioner with the National Health Service in South Wales for 18 months. In 1998 she left clinical medicine and worked as an anatomy demonstrator in the Anatomy Department at the University of Bristol, becoming a lecturer there in 1999.[2][7][13]

      Roberts spent seven years working part-time on her PhD in paleopathology, the study of disease in ancient human remains, receiving the degree in 2008.[2][7][14] She worked as Senior Teaching Fellow at the University of Bristol Centre for Comparative and Clinical Anatomy, where her main roles were teaching clinical anatomy, embryology, and physical anthropology, as well as researching osteoarchaeology and paleopathology.[7][10][15] She stated in 2009 that she was working towards becoming a professor of anatomy.[16]….

      From August 2009 until January 2012, Roberts was a Visiting Fellow in both the Department of Archaeology and Anthropology and the Department of Anatomy of the University of Bristol.[10][18][19]

      In February 2012, Roberts assumed a new post as the University of Birmingham’s first Professor of Public Engagement in Science.[20][21][22]

      She is currently the Director of Anatomy for Bristol’s Severn Deanery Postgraduate School of Surgery, and is also an Honorary Fellow of Hull York Medical School.[23][24]””

      Neil Oliver:
      “”He then attended the University of Glasgow to study archaeology. He obtained an MA in archaeology and worked as a free-lance archaeologist, before training as a journalist.[4]””

      Compare and contrast.

    244. Paul Wilson says:

      JFWGW,
      I grew up in Edinburgh during the 60’s too and it was Hendry’s juice for me their Red Cola was the best and it was made at Meadowbank just down the road from where I lived.

    245. Chick McGregor says:

      Heedy

      You know me, just can’t help seeing the best in everybody. 🙂

    246. heedtracker says:

      Compare and contrast.

      Indeed Legerwood and lets face it, the best propagandists are the most knowledgeable.

      Knowledge is power.

      I dont know it might be this one Legerwood, it was a series. Anyway, look at how Scotland is completely obliterated from and by the wiki thing on BBC Celts documentary. This is not by chance and it all done by beeb gimps, like your good Doc here,

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celts_(BBC_documentary)

      “The Final Conflict” returns to history, presenting the conquest of the modern Celtic nations by neighbouring England and France, with a detailed review of the attempted destruction of the Welsh language, the Irish resistance and revolution, and the immigration of the Irish and others to North America.

      “The Legacy” is a discussion on the degree to which modern people may view themselves as Celts, with examples of modern Celtic-inspired practices like military discipline and warfare, the Welsh Eisteddfod, modern Irish music and art, and the efforts of the Bretons and Cape Bretoners to preserve their native languages in the face of societal assimilation by their ruling nations. Some of this episode was filmed in Portmeirion, Wales and makes references to the 1960s series The Prisoner.

      Why would beeb gimps even mention “examples of modern Celtic” and not mention Scotland?

      Because we are living in and through a very hot anti Scotland bbc propaganda war.

      Who will win, beeb gimp network, or, eh, us, the Scots?

    247. heedtracker says:

      Here’s History Today mag’s review of it all. It is a terrific documentary series, but again, watch how they flat out refuse to even mention our Scottish predecessors, almost the only Celts to have defeated the might of Rome and thereby changing the course of human history, and for countless millions too.

      http://www.historytoday.com/rachel-pope/celts-blood-iron-and-sacrifice

      “Then suddenly, from 530 BC, we were on the road tracking Celtic origins in the 7th century BC – with an interesting segment with John Koch. And here we have a narrative twist, because – having been told the story of migration and cultural diffusion for three quarters of an hour – ideas that went out of fashion in British archaeology perhaps fifty years ago – suddenly John Koch says cultural diffusionism ‘simply doesn’t work’, and we hear how the Atlantic Celts were actually Bronze Age, as evidenced by Gündlingen swords. Even knowing the period, I’m still confused by this late twist.”

      Atlantic Celt is very Anglo Saxon too.

    248. Lochside says:

      Davies gave the game away from the start…arrogant, vain and stupid. The Tories never had any intention of a deal. They want out of the EU paying nothing and May and Foster’s routine was another charade. Blame the EU and the Irish Republic for the failure…..check out the tory press and media

      These bastards never wanted a deal from the off. The total lack of engagement and preparation for negotiations with the EU was not just about arrogance and stupidity…which the tories have in spades….but a concerted attempt to take the UK out of a regulated and protected politicaL and economic environment for working people and replace it with a deregulated and unprotected dumping ground for dirty money from across the globe. An offshore tax haven for global criminals both private and governmental in size.

      May and her criminal gang including Aron Banks, Farage etc. will never have to worry about their lifestyles. They will remain rich and unaffected by a nuclear winter of neverending austerity facing the rest of us, which will unfold with a ‘no deal Brexit exit’. No doubt with mass surveilance; ’emergency’ legislation against online and public anti-UK state ‘offenders; combined with more armed police and army units; and forced workfare for the disabled and poor forced to eat unregulated poisonous foodstuffs dumped on us by the Yanks and the rest.

      Oh and by the way, all the ‘devolved’
      assemblies will be packed away as a waste of ‘scarce resources’. and it will be ‘Direct Rule ‘ from Westminster forever.

    249. Gregory Beekman says:

      Err… complaining about changes to Irn Bru’s formula is not the same as being in favour of the Union!

      I’m not sure if it was heedtracker or Richard MacKinnon making that assertion (I’m a bit confused on who was quoting who, and where the quote ended and the post began) but it’s pretty silly.

      And anyway, traditions change all the time. Did Scotland die when horse & carts were replaced by automobiles? When hanging was outlawed? When gay marriage was made legal?

      Change happens – let’s hope the next big change is Scotland becoming independent!

    250. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker @ 4.25 and 4.30

      I read the very interesting History Today article you linked to. Without having seen the series, or in this case, the first episode that she is reviewing, I would in fact agree with her criticism that the programme generalised a bit much and flattened out what was more of a patchwork quilt in the History of the Celts even although I have not seen it.

      That may seem perverse but with all such programmes there is often a tendency to broad sweeping generalisations at points and this seems to have occurred in the episode reviewed. It is the sort of thing that drives me up the wall when I watch such programmes. What she did say, however, was that this may not be the fault of the presenters, who she felt did a good job, but the researchers.

      Rachel Pope also pointed out that they should have interviewed those working in the field today. Certainly,in last night’s programme interviews with the people in charge of the dig and discussion/interpretation of the finds were included.

      I did go to the Celts exhibition at the National Museum of Scotland last year and found that fascinating. Wickipedia also has a very detailed entry for the Celts (NB not the TV series) which I have skimmed through a couple of times this afternoon. Having read it I can see where Rachel Pope was coming from in her criticism of the programme.

      I noticed Prof Roberts has written a book on the Celts so will try to get my hands on that and the TV series.

      To be continued

      PS I am not arguing with you about the constant omission of things Scottish which occurs with unerring regularity in a whole range of documentaries. I do not know if it is deliberate or just poor research but it does make me look askance at any other information they are conveying and wonder how accurate it is.

    251. heedtracker says:

      Legerwood says:
      7 December, 2017 at 6:04 pm
      heedtracker @ 4.25 and 4.30

      Its not a single prog though Legerwood. Its a series. And its entire premise is that the Celts have gone and why did they disappear.

      Its an outrageous display of BBC Britnat propaganda. Although, the only defence there is that they had this disappeared Celt meme going and went with that, majorly.

      I’d highly recommend it though. It goes into incredible detail on the Halstatt and La Ten Celtic culture, how it spread and the genocide and slavery they suffered, when Rome did finally defeat them. As did the Celts in Celtic British isles, a thousand years at least before even the concept of an England came about.

      We are being lied to about Scotland and Scottish history by the BBC and lets face, English academic archaeology, who are also quite deliberately pretending that Roman Britain ended not at Hadrian’s wall but John o Groats.

      None of this is by chance. They are wilfully stealing our Scottish heritage and destroying it.

    252. So pregnant woman don`t get filling`s cause it`s like smoking and drinking,

      pregnant woman still get fillings in Scotland with mercury,

      other countries still give fillings to pregnant woman but not with mercury,

      if it is safe WHY?

    253. heedtracker says:

      if it is safe WHY?

      Because in an alloy state, its a stable non toxic metal. There are many similar metals used in medicine, which like mercury are toxic but harmless as part of an alloy.

    254. Jamie says:

      I drink the Irn Bru Xtra but it is far inferior to the real one. I will have to ditch my diet and over indulge in the good stuff before it’s cruelly taken away. I would never buy my kids the aspartame Bru they get the real deal or nothing when it comes to Irn Bru.

      Is there not a petition to save Irn Bru? Surely when it comes to this sort of thing, money talks, if enough punters express their disapproval?

    255. K1 says:

      From ‘Joint report from the negotiators of the European Union and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50 TEU on the United Kingdom’s orderly withdrawal from the European Union.’

      Section Heading: Ireland and Northern Ireland

      49.

      ‘…In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all- island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.’

      Am I understanding this correctly? Is NI being given special status to remain part of the sm and cu whilst the rest of the ‘UK’ leaves the the Eu sm and cu?

      Full Transcript Here, get reading folks..Citizens Rights are all there too…as well as other stuff, just started reading.

      https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf

    256. K1 says:

      Here’s that sentence embedded in surrounding context for a clearer idea of what they are stating:

      48. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting and supporting continued North-South and East-West cooperation across the full range of political, economic, security, societal and agricultural contexts and frameworks of cooperation, including the continued operation of the North-South implementation bodies.

      49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom’s intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all- island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.

      50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

      51. Both Parties will establish mechanisms to ensure the implementation and oversight of any specific arrangement to safeguard the integrity of the EU Internal Market and the Customs Union.

      52. Both Parties acknowledge that the 1998 Agreement recognises the birth right of all the people of Northern Ireland to choose to be Irish or British or both and be accepted as such. The people of Northern Ireland who are Irish citizens will continue to enjoy rights as EU citizens, including where they reside in Northern Ireland. Both Parties therefore agree that the Withdrawal Agreement should respect and be without prejudice to the rights, opportunities and identity that come with European Union citizenship for such people and, in the next phase of negotiations, will examine arrangements required to give effect to the ongoing exercise of, and access to, their EU rights, opportunities and benefits.

      53. The 1998 Agreement also includes important provisions on Rights, Safeguards and Equality of Opportunity for which EU law and practice has provided a supporting framework in Northern Ireland and across the island of Ireland. The United Kingdom commits to ensuring that no diminution of rights is caused by its departure from the European Union, including in the area of protection against forms of discrimination enshrined in EU law. The United Kingdom commits to facilitating the related work of the institutions and bodies, established by the 1998 Agreement, in upholding human rights and equality standards.b>

      The more I read it, the less sense it is making to me. It’s like there isn’t a solution just lots of acknowledgement that a solution is needed at some point?

    257. K1 says:

      Can’t believe that paragraph I pulled out is the very one they are quoting on RT, this is a ‘special’ deal for NI. It literally jumps out the page, so it is significant: They get to stay in the EU CU and SM and we, in Scotland who also voted remain get pulled out with the rest of the UK and get plunged into economic armageddon wi those Brexit wankers down south?

      Are we fkn kidding with this shit?

      How under any reasonable rational sane manner are they going to sell this as ‘not’ a special deal? Cause that is exactly what the whole contorted spin is going to be about for the foreseeable. I hope the Scottish Government is all over this.

      We are out of this so called union if this is what they are prepared to do to keep the DUP on board. They can gtf with this! Oh…and do any of us think London won’t be banging on her door now too?

      Clusterfuck at def con 10 wi this pish. Independence Here We Come!



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