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Wings Over Scotland


Rushing to the gallows

Posted on April 19, 2017 by

One of the most famous tales of the celebrated British hangman Albert Pierrepoint is that concerning James Inglis, a murderer who in 1951 sprinted the short distance from the condemned cell to the noose, enabling the entire execution to be concluded just seven seconds after Pierrepoint had first laid hands on him.

We can’t help thinking of it today.

The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is a Tory law, enacted in 2011 by David Cameron’s government with the sole and express purpose of preventing governments from doing exactly what Theresa May intends to do in the Commons later today – cynically using temporary polling advantage to extend their term in office.

It stipulates that a two-thirds majority of all MPs (not just the ones who actually take part in the vote) must vote for any motion to dissolve Parliament and call an early election, which is 433 votes – over 100 more than the Tories can currently command if every one of their MPs obeys the party whip.

In other words, it cannot be achieved – by design – without the support of the main party of opposition, which in this case is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn currently languishes around 20 points behind in the polls and most projections predict a Tory majority of over 100 seats, compared to the current one of 17.

So why on Earth would the Labour leader go along with it?

An opposition voting against an election seems instinctively foolish, of course. At the most basic ideological level the opposition should always want a chance to unseat the government. But it should also not wish to make its own position worse and give that government an extra two years in power unnecessarily.

Corbyn currently has three years to turn public opinion round – three years in which the Tories are likely to find themselves in a godawful swamp of Brexit negotiations and all manner of other difficulties. If he loses an election now, Labour would then be a minimum of FIVE years away from power. It would not be difficult, therefore, to sell resistance to the election as both a pragmatic and a principled stance.

(General pundit opinion appears to be that refusing to dissolve Parliament would meet with great mockery from the right-wing press. Exactly how would that be different from every other day?)

There is no national emergency requiring the government to take this drastic course of action. No major policy has been blocked. They have a perfectly serviceable working majority. Public opinion is not clamouring for another election.

The SNP, we gather, plan to abstain. So it’s entirely up to Labour whether the vote passes or not. Corbyn could absolutely legitimately stand up and say “No, you are the government the people elected in 2015 to rule for exactly five years – accept the will of the electorate, work with what you’ve got and get on with the day job.”

Should Labour refuse to support today’s motion, the Tories would still have a second avenue available – they could call for a vote of no confidence in themselves, which would put them in the humiliating position of having to stand up in the Commons and argue that they were too terrible a government to be allowed to continue, and that the law they themselves passed just six years ago was incompetent and reckless.

Even on the assumption that the Tories would eventually win that vote (which requires 50%+1 rather than a two-thirds majority) and got their election, Labour would have succeeded in embarrassing them and making them look shambolic and farcical, which at the very least has to count as a tactical victory.

At best, meanwhile, delaying the process could actually cause the Tories to lose their majority altogether as a result of the ongoing police inquiry into possible 2015 electoral fraud by dozens of their MPs, which is due to deliver a verdict very soon.

Oppositions – whose sworn duty to the sovereign and the nation is to make life as difficult for the government as possible – are rarely presented with such an open goal as this. If Labour can’t even take the chance to exert pressure on a government that’s clearly uncomfortable in its current position, they really are literally useless.

If they meekly go along with the Tories’s cynical ploy – the sole purpose of which is to destroy them – they will fully deserve to be propelled through the trapdoor to eternity.

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Betty Boop

Och, the Tories have been destroying Labour since err… forever. It’s just that “Labour” haven’t noticed yet. Someday…

Richardinho

I’ve thought about this too: The conclusion I’ve reached is that Corbyn is sick of his job and simply wants a reason to go himself.

MajorBloodnok

The only thing I can think of is that Labour doesn’t want to be the ones that have to manage and negotiate Brexit should the Tory Government fall, which it might well do if all those election expense cases come home to roost before they can call another general election darn quick.

Juteman

Now is not the time.

Marko

But Labour aren’t about to vote against it. Corbyn is in the weird position of needing to appease his own MPs who are desperate to get rid of him at any cost. It’s the old Bart Simpson paradox, your damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Bob Mack

We were way ahead of you on the previous thread Rev. I think we all figured it out last evening that Labour will indeed fall into another Tory trap instead of letting them stew in their own juice. You have taught us well.

alexicon

The labour party should vote against this general election, as well as the other opposition parties, then watch the tories squirm for the next few years.
The labour party voting for it is just playing into the tories hands.
Madness.

alexicon

They could always make the excuse that now is not the time for a divisive general election and that the tories don’t have a mandate.

TheStrach

Completely agree. If they vote to give the Tories what they want they’ll deserve to move further towards extinction.

Dr Ew

Malcolm Tucker might advise a wiser course would be to agree to a suspension of the Fixed Parliament Act… after the criminal investigation into the election fraud is concluded.

Brad Millar

the Red Tories are their own worst enemy, suppose it will give us a chance to unseat Mundell, Carmichael and Murray all sitting on small majorities of less than 1K … and with the Scottish Greens not standing in Mundell’s constituency bring it on

Dr Ew

Pity he’s still busy with Dr Who.

mosstrooper

It is truly astounding that the Labour party appears to fear the opprobrium of the right wing press more than the prospect of annihilation at the polls.

Scott

I can’t believe Labour are not going to block this election.

It’s one of the few meaningful powers they have.

Surely they cannot be that stupid?

mogabee

I am so against public executions…but

Labour have been killing themselves for the last few years, so I really don’t want to intrude on their private policy.

Meanwhile, Tories are coming out to the press/media on an hourly basis trying to explain away T May’s massive U Turn as not a massive U Turn. :}

If I might use one of Stu’s words…it’s a “clusterfuck” and no mistake. 😀

ClanDonald

He’s not too bright, that Corbyn. No analytical skills. The Rev’s obvious conclusion, above, is not available to his limited intellect. It’s the only explanation.

Marie Clark

As a lot of us jaloused on the previous thread, it’s probably the threat of the CPS that’s spurred them to go for it. I could not quite get my head around it yesterday, why was she announcing a GE before she had even asked parliament to vote on it. This bunch of chancers are totally out of control and need to be reined in.

Which brings us neatly to the opposition, missing in action again. It’s beyond my comprehension what labour think they are doing. The goal is wide open, and they decide to pick the ba’ up and leave the field. In my opinion, they do not have anything to lose by voting against the government, but my goodness, they have a helluva lot to lose if the vote with them.

Let’s get the hell outa Dodge folks, now is the time.

Brian McHugh

Labour might get wiped out in England, never mind just in Scotland.

A.H.

They (the Tories) have a third option – they could pass a law (with a simple majority) that says an early election will take place on June 8th 2017, as long as said law states explicitly it applies regardless of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

In other words – in the UK legal system, no parliament can bind its successors. Laws doing so are only relevant as long as the majority in parliament is willing to let them stand.

Marcia

Labour should have said, ‘now is not the time’ and blocked it and made her look foolish.

The forthcoming election expenses saga could still embarrass the Tories if decisions to prosecute fall with the election campaign period. Any attempt by the Tories to interfere with that due process will no doubt find its way to the media even though they will try.

call me dave

I think Corbyn was too quick to announce that they would go along with the Tory 2/3 rule. Why not let them stew in their own juices, waiting on the Electoral Commission report and possible prosecutions.

Labour allow them an escape clause and the whitewash brush to paint over the truth.

Far better to get the Tories to call a vote of no confidence in themselves. How about voting to keep them in even then and see how that goes!

PS:
Jonathan on shortbread radio (SNP supporter) going to vote Scottish lab this time round. FGS!

Auntie Kaye with a kilt on must have a list of them on speed dial.

Cooncil elections first, one step at a time.

jimnarlene

Labour party, two words that will come to mean, feking useless.

mike d

Liebor will definitely be wiped out in England,and re the GE in Scotland. We need the votes of the 16/17 yr olds and the eu immigrants to counter the tory votes of the white settlers. Otherwise no indy vote.

Fergus Green

If the underlying reason for calling the election was to deflect attention away from the election expenses scandal, one possible reason for Labour supporting the Tories is that they also overspent during the 2015 campaign and are likely to be in the same awkward position as the Blue Tories.

I can’t think of another reason why they would want to support the government.

Jomu

Fiver says Jezza refuses to resign come the historic drubbing and the morning of despair. Kinnock got a second shot in 1992, after all. Besides, every one of those Labour votes on June 8 was for socialism: a spectacular moral victory! Tony Benn said so of 1983. Peace be upon Jezza’s idol.

The loony left has a long record at barking at the moon like this. Stick in there, Corbyn my son!

One_Scot

I am not a conspiracy theorist, and I’m not saying May and Corbyn had agreed this before the election was announced, and I’m definitely not saying that a big brown envelope was placed under Corbyns pillow last night, lol.

Richardinho

What bothers me is why TM called this election knowing that parliament would have to vote on it and that Labour would quite possibly vote against leaving her looking very silly indeed. Had she spoken to Corbyn beforehand? Were they sure that Corbyn wanted a GE too? Or was it just a big gamble?

schrodingers cat

#nothenow

ann

I fail to understand why Corbyn even agrees to this, he and his party are on a hiding to nothing and oblivion.

If the guy does not want the job, get his party to reject giving the Tories the starting gun for a June election and with this one victory over them he can stand down and hopefully some young upcoming and forward looking Labour member will stand to the fore to take the party forward.

Bill

Labour MP Chris Matheson voting against.

Fingers crossed.

heedtracker

So why on Earth would the Labour leader go along with it?

Because essentially, he’s an other fine English chap that wants to take back control, from all those bally foreign types.

Lets face it, Labour’s Remain campaign was terrible and England’s a country that wants it independence now. Scots have got to shut up, stay with England, vote Labour, for our on good and because they love us really.

Wee Jock Poo-Pong McPlop

Errr…just WHY are the SNP abstaining?

Ian McCubbin

A needless election so May can avoid and delaybrexit plan dealing with Scotland wanting independence and clutching at straws that cheerleading Ruth will revive Tories in Scotland

Mo Workman

Perhaps Corbyn hopes that by whipping his MP’s they will do the opposite as is usually the case and he will not have to lose face by abstaining.

Fred

A cunning plan! but what is it?

Dean

The obvious downside to voting against the general election in a time when anything seems to be construed as a mandate for or against whatever the flavour of the month is, is that the Press will claim that labour have just handed May a mandate to rule/destroy the world.

MajorBloodnok

Isn’t it fascinating that the UK is being dragged into Brexit and other calamities simply because both main parties are primarily trying to deal with internal divisions rather than seeking to deliver in a principled way what is best for the country as a whole. We are at the end of the road for the UK now.

Martin

I cannot understand why labour are agreeing to this. But the SNP abstaining? That’s pretty much the same thing.

Brian McHugh

I would guess the SNP are abstaining, cos it leaves the decision then to Labour. The SNP cannot get a 2/3rds vote on their own, where-as if Labour voted against, then The Torys would be defeated… provided Labour are not split of course.

Big Jock

My dream scenario is the Scots electing 59 SNP mp’s. Its absolutely possible. Why not.

Skip_NC

Wee Jock, I was surprised to read that too. But then, voting against a referendum – er – election might come back to bite them and siding with the tories would do that too.

So now we have two referendums. One on Brexit in England and one on independence for Scotland. If the smaller pro- independence parties had any sense they would take a step back this time round and allow their supporters to coalesce around the SNP.

JLT

To be honest, I can’t think of any other time in British history where uncertainty reigns supreme.

And what the Tories – and let’s not forget Labour here – seem to be doing nothing short of some mad form of mass-suicide where they intend to take the British electorate with them. It’s like the political version of David Koresh with his acolytes during the Waco siege, where they are now dragging those who are both unwilling and wanting to leave into participating in what seems to be a pact where everyone has to suffer before we get that ‘enlightenment’ and brighter future.

But by having no alternative future, nor having absolutely any answers on anything that could clarify on what we are all seeking, it seems we are all going to be dragged along to a point where the nation will hand absolute authority to Theresa, and Theresa and her acolytes will then take the UK down a path where not only are there are no answers, but could end up destroying their ‘precious’ union altogether. It’s madness …complete and utter madness.

Well …I just hope that the vast majority of Scotland is becoming alarmingly aware of the path that we are descending here today.

starlaw

Tory Labour both the same. State always comes first, Labour have no wish to defeat the Tories on matters of State.

Ken500

Corbyn is useless. What could be expected from a trougher who sat in a Party and disagreed with every major decision. An absolute failure. Most people would have gone off and done something useful. Most of them should be in jail for fraud and deception. Starting with Blair, Brown and the Tory clowns. Cameron, Osbourne, Johnston, Gove etc. Breaking the Law with impunity.

Will the Tories commit lie and electoral fraud again to win an election? The Tories could lose again. Or have a non workable majority. Just the same scenario. How many if them will be charged and convicted. The EU Ref is a farce. An illegitimate, illegal exercise which will have to be run again. The Tories have mucked up disastrously again. Farron is a criminal breaking the equal opportunity equality Laws.

boris
DerekM

Blue tory Red tory same tory.

I did warn the momentum guys they were voting in a tory patsy and when the crunch came they would be betrayed by the PLP.

Well momentum it is crunch time.

I am old enough to remember Foot as the Labour leader and the bewilderment of the party that he got elected,but now looking back it was all just a way to make the conservatives more electable.

And boy did old Worzel Gummidge make them electable.

Jeremy Corbyn is the new Worzel Gummidge.

starlaw

JTL 10:46
excellent description. you put it in a nutshell.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Rushing to the gallows One of the most famous tales of the celebrated British hangman Albert Pierrepoint is […]

Black Joan

Well even the BBC website is daring to mention the 2015 election expenses scandal, so maybe there is hope that it won’t be brushed under the carpet.

Not that Nick (he didn’t answer the question) Robinson bothered to mention that to the PM on the Today programme this morning.

Cannot comprehend what Labour are thinking.

ArabiaTerra

I think you’re missing something here. If Labour block this, May will simply force through a short bill repealing the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and have the election anyway.

call me dave

GE Election results. Tories 331.

link to archive.is

2/3rds required to call a new election. 594 X 2/3 = 396 (No SNP)

331 < 396

The SNP 56 VOTES are not really critical in the numbers.

If the 2/3 fail then Tories could go to 50% +1 on another vote of no confidence in themselves kinda thing but on another day.

Today is not the time.

Labour. Hmm! They wont do it. 🙂

Bob W

@Skip_NC
As a 2/3 majority is required, voting against or abstaining, has no practical effect.

Gavin Greig

At the very least he could use it as leverage to get her into TV leadership debates (I won’t vote for it unless you agree to participate) which would also put her in the position of looking foolish and scared unless she agreed.

I’m inclined to think that saying “Now is not the time, let’s see what the CPS has to say first” would be best though.

Dr Jim

I was amazed nobody used the no confidence vote to at least make them have to admit they were usleless no matter what happened after it

liz

I think abstaining is the right thing to do.
Very few people want this election, this is really about England.

Nicola can say,now is not the time, this is causing more uncertainty and confusion etc etc

Quentin Quale

Perhaps Corbyn is being coached in political strategy by Kezia.

old highlander

May is terrified of a live TV debate, too many skeletons rattling in the cupboard.

No matter which way things go we will get shafted again and again and again as we have been for the last three hundred years and more.

How much more of it can the good people take.

Tony Little

SNP abstaining, I think, so that they are washing their hands of the process. In effect an abstention is the same as a vote against as the Government has to have 2/3 VOTES of Parliament cast in favour and nit just a majority. Labour could of course do the same and the attempt would fall.

2/3 of HoC is 433 positive votes.

orri

The 2/3rds required is of all seats including those not currently filled.

Handily avoids springing such a vote without due warning in order to win one.

In this case that’s 434 voting in favour.

Obviously that kind of minimum level of support was good enough in ’79 to delay “devolution” by 20 odd years. The SNP are simply returning the favour.

CameronB Brodie

You might have something there heedtracker, I think it was Bomber Ben who wrote recently that Labour have to counter the Tories, who were clearly looking to capture the energy of English nationalism. England has voted to Brexit and Labour don’t fancy their chances against the inertia of reactionary, insular nationalism.

N.B. Contemporary British nationalism is an expansionist form of English nationalism. Not very pleasant.

Chris Baxter

Corbyn couldn’t prevent the election if he wanted to. Most Labour MPs would go along with it so with an electoral beating Corbyn will have no choice but to go.

pitchfork

RE: Abstaining

Under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act May needs a 2/3 majority of *Seats* to vote in favour, not just a 2/3 majority of votes cast.

This means that abstentions are effectively votes against allowing her to call the early election but without actually voting No. For once abstaining makes sense.

orri

May could always wait to lose her majority temporarily whilst any re-elections due to the electoral expense scandal take place. Labour might then go for a vote of no-confidence at that point. Or the could wait to see how that pans out and go in to a new election against a government that fell due to cheating.

Also the SNP aren’t actually opposing a new election. Labour can abstain too. They haven’t said they’d actually support another election.

pitchfork

Faisal Islam has been explaining how the FTPA works (and the need for a majority of MPs , not just cast votes to trigger an early election) on twitter. Worth looking for.

Donald

Is there an argument for Jeremy Corbyn that goes something along these lines:

1. He won’t be able to change public opinion in 3 years, so he agrees to this GE (he’d lose in three years anyway)
2. He loses the GE.
3. He either refuses to resign, has a leadership contest that he’ll win (again) or makes sure someone in his inner circle wins.
4. That then gives him five years – rather than three – to change public opinion.

If he does that, huge chance Labour would split (oh dry my watering eyes) but it is sort of a way to give him more time to get his message across.

All that said, it’s madness from Labour.

call me dave

Here’s a bit of interesting history from an article in 2015.

Where AS mentioned the 2011 Fixed Term Parliament Act and the 2/3rds scenario.

link to archive.is

Bob Mack

The SNP Abstaining is exactly right. Think about it. May needs another election to win Labour’s seats in N England which are primarily leave the eU. She needs this because electoral fraud cases which are upcoming, endangers her current majority.

If people abstain they put May in a very ,very, difficult position. She needs this election.

heedtracker

CameronB Brodie says:
19 April, 2017 at 11:25 am
You might have something there heedtracker, I think it was Bomber Ben who wrote recently that Labour have to counter the Tories, who were clearly looking to capture the energy of English nationalism.

Its hard to see it any other way. JC’s not mad, he’s English, English exceptionalism is very English. Its nice too, if you let them have their way.

Otherwise, watch them rage, at the EU and ofcourse, Scots like you and me.

John H

John Nicolson on channel 5 this morning said that Theresa May has stated that she wants to get rid of the “wishy washy” policies she inherited from David Cameron. I dread to think what a tory victory with a greatly increased majority would mean for ordinary people.

Robert Peffers

There is another explanation that always seems to fly over the heads of even the most dedicated Wingers. There is a fixed idea in most people’s minds that Westminster is a parliament of a Government, an opposition and a group of others. In normal circumstances that is indeed how it seems to the outside world.

However, there has always been another factor that has always been present at Westminster and it is that, above all else, Westminster is a major part of the English, “Establishment”. When the chips are down Westminster automatically closes ranks against all outsiders.

Scotland and the SNP are outsiders and anyone with normal sensory facilities such as eyes, ears and a brain can see, “The Establishment”, swing into full, head on, action at such Westminster institutions as, “Scottish Questions”.

The quite blatant show of, “British”, Nationalism and anti-Scottish bile exhibited by every Unionist Party, be they Tory, Labour, LibDem or UKIP, transcends any internal differences the Establishment pretends to have. This is, “The Establishment”, in action.

However, never make the easy mistake of thinking Westminster is, “The Establishment”, for Westminster is merely a useful tool of, “The Establishment”. As are the Media, the upper echelons of the Education System, the Church of England, the Financial system, the armed forces, police and security services and the Civil Services.

But above them all are the Royals, Aristocracy and the rich elites who control large international companies.

Think on this – We still have hereditary peers and English Archbishops sitting unelected in the House of Lords. These are joined by those that The Establishment has Her Majesty grant Honours to, and those Royals and hereditary peers were the leaders of the Anglo-Saxon and Norman invaders who took over South Britain after the Romans left Britain.

That, Wingers is the reason that Jeremy Corbyn will do as he is told and instruct his MPs to vote with the Tories for an election that is totally against a Labour Party’s best interests.

The Establishment will always close ranks to protect the Establishment against all outside threats and Scotland has always been, and always will remain, an enemy of the Establishment.

shiregirl

Did I hear right on BBC…

Dan Hodges (‘Labour commentator’) wants rid off Jeremy Corbyn so much, he would vote tory to rid him.

Eh?

I need someone to explain this. I accept JC isn’t everyone’s cuppa, but to vote against the party and vote tory just to rid him?

Brian McHugh

Just listening to Scottish Questions… Why are the SNP not challenging this new lie of a “UK Single Market”?

There is NO such thing. There is only currently one treasuary, therefore there are no markets between treasuries. This is not anything like the EU single market.

There are no trade deals… there is only tax benefits to one party in the so called ‘UK single market’… this lie needs to be flushed down the toilet where it belongs.

Brian McHugh

Corbyn is utter mince.

Thepnr

Theresa May’s hopes of blocking a fresh independence referendum in Scotland will “crumble to dust” if the SNP win big at the upcoming general election, Nicola Sturgeon has declared.

Ms Sturgeon rushed down to Westminster this morning to rally her MPs and assure them a new independence vote was firmly on the ballot paper.

link to archive.is

Stoker

Re; the article above:

Yeah, Pierrepoint prided himself in the speed at which he could execute his executions. He was also, i believe, responsible for formulating the ‘height+weight+drop’ tables which lead to a quicker and cleaner snapping of the neck and instantaneous death.
😉
__________
Rev,
I see you asking the following over on WOS Twitter:

“WTF am i meant to do in this election? In Bath it’s a two-horse race between the Tories and these guys:

[“Lib Dem leader yesterday wouldn’t rule out another Tory coalition & still seems to think being gay is ‘sinful’….”]

You could always spoil your ballot, a protest vote?
Or help keep England Tory blue! 😉 😀

One_Scot

May is just pissing all over Labour. Corbyn not up to the job.

Desimond

@mike d
You lost me,
Under 18s don’t have a vote in a GE?

Brian McKay

Completely agree Stu. I can think of no good reason for Labour supporting this. Yes, I suppose in the very short term they could be accused of cowardice, but this will be forgotten quicker than a Lord seeking expenses. Far better to let the whole Brexit thing unravel and show the Tory party for what they are – a party for the privileged few and against the disadvantaged. Come 2020, there is every chance that Labour could win, or at least the Tories would lose its overall majority, but there is no chance for Labour in a June election. If ever the phrase ‘Turkeys voting for Christmas’ applied to a situation, this us surely it!

K1

Aye Robert your finger is on the pulse on the true state of affairs. Think on it…would May have announced this without already knowing she had the support of Corbyn and Labour?

Would Nicola have announced Scotref without already knowing she had the support of Harvie and the Greens?

There is very little doubt that she could have proposed this without a lot of back channelling with Labour.

As others have said re SNP, of course they should abstain for the exact reasons atl, why should they support the Tories instead let them implode, they are merely trying to consolidate their power by achieving a larger majority which is not to Scotland’s advantage…eternal Tory rule?

Of course the fly in thesir ointment is that it will backfire spectacularly in Scotland for that very reason. As for Labour…they are committing murder suicide. One half of them hinging the ither half whilst topping themselves spectacularly in public afterwards. So gotta ask…why?

What does the establishment gain from this act of ‘crushing Labour’?

Macart

Pretty much the only thing you can say about the last 24hrs and more particularly Labour’s response to date is…

… WTAF?!?

Valerie

Wow, Angus goes on the saboteurs thing, and May says free Press.

If Corbyn had a brain, he would not vote for an election, and then it would force a motion of no confidence, and Tories would have to vote for it. Repealing the Fixed Term law would also take a bit of time, and embarrass Tory further.

Plenty options, but Corbyn is useless. He could play for time, to make Tories look dictatorial, and if he had sense would stand aside for someone like Clive Lewis.

Corbyn, such a rebel in his past, constantly trots along with Tories plans.

Song42

Like the grandma (in the vid) pointed out, she’s not happy about it…’Not another one’ – election!
I imaging a very small part of the mindset/ play in TM ploy with what would or could have devastating consequences for Scotland.
We hear it in Scotland too…’not another referendum’ until we keep educating why It’s important to stand strong and keep voting…YES and snp.

So will people who are now exhausted not bother to come this time round never mind by the time we are voting indyref2 apart from YESers, who will obviously fight to the death for Scotland’s freedom.

O/T
I went to my (new) ward 6 Hustings last night and was impressed by the Green’s Jon Molyneux and SNP Norman MacLeod (not very personable) I hear has done good work and Dr Nighet Riaz, her first time standing,
SLabour and the only Tory (held his place for 10yrs) in Pollokshields have both done very good work for my area. Shame they both don’t come over to SNP.

If I wasn’t voting for independence and standing by Nicola and wanting Slabour out of GCC I would be putting Greens my no1 instead of 3rd.

Sinky

Corbyn hasn’t a scooby and as a turkey will vote for Christmas.

573 new SNP members yesterday.

Pity Angus Robertson didn’t mention the racist Tory council candidates.

Graeme McCormick

Slightly off topic:

I see from The Herald that the Kirk’s welcome deliberations on conducting same-sex marriage highlights the hope of Ruth Davidson that she and her partner can have a wedding in the kirk.

I do wonder if there is a kirk minister out there who would be prepared to conduct the service when her willingness to force mothers to prove that their third and subsequent children were the result of rape to claim benefit for them is an outrageous denial of the Christ who suffered the little children to come to him.

DerekM

@ shiregirl

It is all part of the big deception show that is westminster shiregirl.

They have done this before when Maggie got elected it is from the same play book,make Labour so bad that the only choice for England is to vote conservative.

That is why many folks mention the tories being in power for the next 20-30 years until they are so hated by the electorate,then they will stick another tombstone tony in charge of the Labour party and start the whole cycle again.

It is quite ingenious and extremely disturbing to know that they are both in this together.

Or as the old line goes it takes two to tango.

Bob Mack

Interesting quote from Duncan Hothersall. He reckons it is better to vote tory than SNP. His rationale is that he could never support nationalism.

Duncan, I have news for you. This Tory government was elected and will be re elected on a tide of British Nationalism. I can only deduce that Mr hothersall and his ilk have very selective vision.
It is by a long way the most right wing government in my lifetime.

Ken500

Clive Lewis supports illegal wars, killing and maining millions of innocent people and causing the worst migration criss in Europe since 11WW.

Most of them should be put in jail.

Ken500

Mr Skinner comes clean

sensibledave

JLT 10.46

You wrote: “And what the Tories – and let’s not forget Labour here – seem to be doing nothing short of some mad form of mass-suicide”

I don’t think that characterisation of the situation is correct. All of the major political parties wanted the UK to Remain (bar UKIP) – that was the party policy in each case.

It is the general public that are dragging the parties in a direction they didn’t want to go!

Now, in England, only The Lib Dems will fight the GE on a “Remain” ticket. The lib Dems are doing that for their own very narrow party political benefit I assume. They believe that they can get more votes by attracting Remainers from all parties and, in net terms, they judge they will end up better off. Obviously, neither the Tories or Labour can go into the GE on a Remain ticket or they will be slaughtered by the electorate.

Why is it so hard for wingers to understand that? You may disagree personally with Brexit but surely you cannot doubt that both the Tories and Labour have to fight on a Leave ticket?

The SNP, as always, will take a contrary view to the main political wind because that is what they do. They can do that as long as the subject is “theoretical”. As soon as they are faced with the reality of dealing with an actual situation themselves then they U turn faster than an F1 car. Income tax rates in Scotland are a prime example.

Assuming the UK does Brexit, I don’t see anyway that Scotland wont be part of said Brexit. Whilst many on Wings are quick to judge other parties for not having contingency plans in place, can anyone tell me what the Scottish government’s plans are for post Brexit? Are they going to carry on pretending it isn’t going to happen or do they actually have a plan for Scotland post Brexit?

Ken500

George Osbourne gone.

Another one down, another one gone. Another one hits the dust.

Dr Jim

I’m hearing the Greens are not standing a candidate against Mundell which if true is damn decent of those chaps

I wonder if Labour would do a decent thing like that to rid Scotland of these odious Tory people or will they just see an enhanced opperchancety

Fergus Green

It would be ideal if Labour would abstain (they are good at doing this) followed by Corbyn calling a vote of no confidence in the government.

Maximum embarrassment all round and a huge spanner in the works.

Arbroath1320

I have to say I think Corbyn has lost the plot over this vote today. Mind you I’ve been questioning recently whether he actually has the plot to lose in the first place.

As Stu says for Corbyn to vote against the vote today it would mean another *YAWN* onslaught from the right wing London centric media … so what! He has been up against it ever since he first became Labour leader what is really gonna change now? Absolutely nothing in my view other than as Stu also points out he’d have another 3 years to get his, and Labour’s, act properly together. As it now stands Labour are in the wilderness for another FIVE years.

Congratulations Corbyn you’ve sold England and Wales down the river. Never mind though Bubba we have a party in Scotland that does what it says on the tin and will continue to do so and will not crumble at the first sight of Tory chaos and desire to become even more despotic than they already are!

Legerwood

Thepnr says:
19 April, 2017 at 12:11 pm
“”Theresa May’s hopes of blocking a fresh independence referendum in Scotland will “crumble to dust” if the SNP win big at the upcoming general election, Nicola Sturgeon has declared.

Ms Sturgeon rushed down to Westminster this morning to rally her MPs and assure them a new independence vote was firmly on the ballot paper.

link to archive.is“”

………….

Ms Sturgeon did not rush down to London today. She was already there.

She went down yesterday, Tuesday, to open a new Scottish business hub in London yesterday evening. You will find an article about the business hub on the BBC news website site under Scottish Business.

heedtracker

Ligger Neil on his vote tory BBC lunchtime politics show just there, acting all surprised at tory election fraudster investigations, and its a possible issue now, apparently, grinch’s the Ligger, gosh really, The Ligger?

Nice new spring hair do colour for the Ligger too, hints of the summer to come and not just another Murdoch bootboy lunatic.

BBC Scotland Tells Lies

The National:

“Nicola Sturgeon calls on Scotland to reinforce her mandate for indyref2 in the upcoming election”

Kathleen Nutt, Journalist /
NICOLA Sturgeon last night warned Theresa May her decision to call a snap election is a “huge political miscalculation” which could strengthen the case for a second independence referendum.

The Tories have just a single MP – David Mundell – north of the Border, and the First Minister said the election on June 8 was an opportunity to further weaken the Tories’ presence.

She accused May, who had repeatedly said she would not call an election until 2020, of an “extraordinary U-turn” and of putting her party before the country in a bid to increase its parliamentary majority of 17.

“This announcement is one of the most extraordinary U-turns in recent political history, and it shows that Theresa May is once again putting the interests of her party ahead of those of the country. She is clearly betting that the Tories can win a bigger majority in England given the utter disarray in the Labour Party,” said Sturgeon.

“That makes it all the important that Scotland is protected from a Tory Party which now sees the chance of grabbing control of government for many years to come and moving the UK further to the right – forcing through a hard Brexit and imposing deeper cuts in the process.”

She added: “In terms of Scotland, this move is a huge political miscalculation by the Prime Minister. It will once again give people the opportunity to reject the Tories’ narrow, divisive agenda, as well as reinforcing the democratic mandate which already exists for giving the people of Scotland a choice on their future.”

May set out her intention yesterday morning to hold the election claiming divisions at Westminster risked jeopardising the Brexit negotiations.

She said she had “reluctantly” taken the decision to go to the country after seeing other parties “playing games” with the process of preparing for the talks.

“Before Easter, I spent a few days walking in Wales with my husband, thought about this long and hard and came to the decision that to provide that stability and certainty for the future, this was the way to do it – to have an election,” she said.

“I trust the British people. The British people gave the Government a job to do in terms of coming out of the European Union and I’m going to be asking the British people to put their trust in me in ensuring we deliver a success of that.”

The campaign will take place at the same time as the Scottish Government has called for a fresh vote on independence to be held, some time between autumn 2018 and spring 2019, to allow voters a chance to decide whether to stay in the UK outside of the EU or be an independent country. The Prime Minister has rejected the demand for a second plebiscite, saying “now is not the time” for such a vote to be held.

May later told ITV News her bid to champion the Union would be a key plank of the Tory election campaign.

“I will be out there championing the cause of a United Kingdom. I believe that we are stronger as a United Kingdom. I think this Union we have between Northern Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales is a very precious Union,” she said.

The First Minister was due to set out the “next steps” in her plans for an independence vote, but those could now be delayed because of the election.

In the 2015 General Election the SNP won 56 of the 59 constituencies north of the border, while Labour, the Conservatives and the LibDems won just one seat each.

Under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act introduced by her predecessor David Cameron, the Prime Minister will require the support of two-thirds of MPs to go to the country, with a vote scheduled in the Commons today.

In order to call the early election, she will need the support of two-thirds of the 650 MPs in the Commons but Labour is expected to support her, as any opposition would look weak if it did not agree to the chance to take office.

Scottish Green co-convener Patrick Harvie said Scotland’s opposition to leaving the EU “cannot be allowed to fall on deaf ears” in the election.

“I’m sure that voters in Scotland will not allow this election to satisfy the whims of a dangerous hard-right party determined to damage our economy, public services and threaten our EU friends and neighbours who have made Scotland their home. Instead, we must reassert our choice for a fairer and more equal society,” he said.

The Scottish Independence Convention (SIC) condemned May’s snap election announcement and said the only way to protect Scotland from a hard Brexit was “to ensure all 59 Scottish MPs are returned with an explicit mandate to hold a second independence referendum”.

SIC convener Elaine C Smith added: “Once again Scots are being dragged into a Westminster dog-fight that is not of our making and doesn’t fit Scottish political priorities.

“But members of the SIC are ready to mobilise all networks and members to ensure this election creates the opportunity to show Westminster that Scots insist on the right to consider independence again in light of the vast constitutional change set in train by Brexit and the explicit commitments we hope the SNP and Greens will make in their manifestos.

“As Scotland’s First Minister has repeatedly said that second referendum vote should not happen now but once the shape of the Brexit deal is clear.”

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale and Scottish LibDem leader Willie Rennie underlined their opposition to a second independence referendum in their responses to the announcement.

The Commons vote on whether the election can go ahead will follow a 90 minute debate today, after Prime Minister’s Questions.

May will go into the General Election enjoying the largest poll lead across the UK of any Tory PM in modern history. The Tories currently lead Labour by an average of 17 points. No other Tory Government in modern times has been this far ahead of the main opposition party 51 days from a General Election.

Arbroath1320

Dr Jim says:
19 April, 2017 at 12:45 pm

I’m hearing the Greens are not standing a candidate against Mundell which if true is damn decent of those chaps

According the today’s National Dr. J. they are indeed not standing in Scruffy Fluffy’s constituency or in Calum Kerr’s adjacent constituency of Berwickshire,Roxburgh and Selkirk.

The great news is that oor Emma Harper is standing in Dumfriesshire,Clydesdale and Tweedale again. THIS time she is gonna win with the great help of the Greens. 🙂

I know I’m jumping the gun but hey don’t I always? 😀

Bill McLean

Duncan Hothersall is an embarrassment to the good name Labour used to have for a wee while, He is simply a British Nationalist pretending to care for the people. Absolute rubbish! Surely even someone as dim as he is can see that the best for people in Scotland and rUK is for Scotland to become independent and thus shake up the politics of the rump. Duncan may not be dim but he appears to be with the rubbish he pumps out on a regular basis and can he enlighten us as to when there will ever be a socialist government at class ridden establishment schmoozing Westminster?

David

Could Corbyn be about to turn it all around again? He was the token left outsider who somewhat reluctantly stood for the labour leadership. He only stood because some of his detractors nominated him as they felt the left of the party needed to be represented in the leadership election. Then they tried to get rid of him and he scored an even bigger victory.

So could the following happen?

The LibDems ask for the antibrexit vote and steal millions of votes from the Tories.

The SNP, already now definitely the anti brexit of choice in Scotland, achieve a similar result to 2015 north of the border.

The diehard Labour vote holds up in England and Wales much better than expected.

The pro EU politicians in N Ireland also do well in the GE.

Corbyn becomes PM of a coalition government, of Lab, Snp, LibDem, Sinn Fein?, etc, that negotiates a soft brexit that the UK can only sign up to if the voters agree to it in a new EU referendum.

I don’t know that I strongly believe this but I’m not going to rule it out completely.

Richardinho

“Assuming the UK does Brexit, I don’t see anyway that Scotland wont be part of said Brexit”

That’s a pretty silly thing to say on a website dedicated to Scottish independence.

Grendel

SNP to abstain? What’s the point in that. If we want a party who abstains on our behalf, we vote Labour.

TheWasp

Labour walloper on daily politics rules out working with SNP in coalition or arrangement, as they “couldn’t work with THOSE people”.

Death warrant signed, bye bye red tories

HandandShrimp

I don’t understand the Labour position on this but then I don’t really get Labour’s position on a fair few issues these days.

That said if the Liberals take back a few of their seats in the SW of England and Labour don’t implode May might still win but could actually be in a weaker position than now…an interesting long shot from Jeremy if that is his thinking.

Valerie

@Ken500

What are you chanting about?

To be clear, I despise Labour, but mentioned Clive Lewis because he has been touted.

It does you no credit to spout shite about the man. He has often gone against party lines, on nuclear, and resigned his cabinet post over Brexit. He has spoken out over Yemen and sale of arms.

It’s a stretch to blame him for the migration crisis.

I’m all for calling out any politician, but not spreading unfounded muck.

Vestas

shiregirl 11:58 am :

“Did I hear right on BBC…

Dan Hodges (‘Labour commentator’) wants rid off Jeremy Corbyn so much, he would vote tory to rid him.

Eh?

I need someone to explain this. I accept JC isn’t everyone’s cuppa, but to vote against the party and vote tory just to rid him?”

Dan Hodges is a tory even by Labour standards. He’s spent the last decade writing bile for the Torygraph & appears to have been moved on to the racists choice – the Daily Mail.

He is despised by both red and blue tories – Labour think he’s a ("Tractor" - Ed), tories think he’s a fool who’ll say anything for his 30 pieces of silver.

In short he’s the English equivalent of Ian S Smart – a deeply unpleasant character. He’ll fit right in at the Daily Hate…..

Bob Mack

@ Sensibledave.

Income tax rates are not an example. The SNP can only timber with thresholds. Secondly 62% of the population of my country Scotland ( not England) wish to remain in the EU. You look at the situation from your own partisan view I suppose.

Robert Graham

What has corbyn to gain ? ,the prospect of his party being wiped off the map by the tories in england .
hasn’t he noticed the CPS are not finished with twenty of Mayhems MPs and if charged could be jailed .
Now is not the time should have been the reply , short and simple .

Nana

O/T

Not sure what has already been posted but thought you might like to see the following.

Nicola in London
see here
link to twitter.com

Dennis Skinner on the tory fraud
see here
link to twitter.com

Richard J Murphy at the Finance and Constitution Committee (Part 1)
Watch here
link to twitter.com

Calum McKay

There is an old country and western lyric that reminds nds me of labour:

“There’s no use running down the wrong road”!

labour have been running down the wrong road for years!

Sad point is, labours’ fixation with the union has seen Scotland on this right wing tory austerity road.
I
Hope is, labour voters will see labour for what they are, a waste of space!

mike cassidy

Vestas 1.02

And Ian Smart’s response to a possible GE is to become obsessed with its effect on the minutiae of parliamentary procedure as it applies to the date of the next Holyrood election.

link to archive.is

and the implications for when any indyref2 could be held.

Artyhetty

The SNP are right to abstain. This is about the tory party, who do not represent Scotland, and have, a 800 votes majority, (!) with just one Scottish tory MP in WM. To vote for it is obviously out of the question, but to abstain makes sense. The Labour party are the ones who could put the spanner in the works but will choose to go along with their tory pals. It shows them up for what they are to the english electorate.

Ken500

Clive Lewis served in Alfganistan and supports nuclear.

Robert J. Sutherland

What an omnishambles. Those of you who still entertain any hopes of Labour are in for a shock, I fear, including in England. Their defeatism is almost palpable. The LibDems may get a few wins on the strength of their anti-Brexit stance but nothing like enough to make any difference whatever. The UK is being hustled by a rabid right wing press into a new dark age. This is only the start.

We just have to get out of this, and the sooner the better.

Wulls

Open goal. No keeper.
Quite how it is possible for labour to miss will be a talking point for years to come.
I am just sure they will.

Dr Jim

Trolls are funny though eh, they always try to start out as if they’re reasonable people but end up wagging their fingers at us and condescendingly telling us what we need to understand in the way that they somehow have divine and rightful knowledge and are taking their more important time to impart to us lesser mortals of very limited understanding the need to comply

Or we’re saboteurs or scum or tractors or some other shouty abusive phrase they read in the Daily Heil
Coz they just can’t help themselves reverting to type

I suppose they would say the same of us except for one thing, I’ve never ever met anyone in the Independence campaign who defends lies from any political party

And that’s the difference between them and us, while we’re looking for the truth to be uncovered they’re building bigger walls of lies to obscure it

Breeks

I think a big unknown is what happens to the UK Remain vote.

You also get the expectation that a doughty Labour Party would seize a Tory government when its on the ropes, fix it with a grim headlock and bring it to its knees, and rescue the UK from Brexit, …but then you look at the Labour front benches, and they look like the meek who have consigned themselves to inheriting the Earth after Brexit.

Tim Farron sees Brexit as his pot of gold for electoral success, but I don’t know. I just cannot see the Tory Remainers who might have backed a Ken Clarke or Tarzan led breakaway faction joining forces with Farron. Farron is maybe not the Court Jester, that’s Boris of course, but maybe the Courts travelling minstrel, a man passing through. Farron is the poor man’s Nick Clegg, and Nick Clegg was the poor man’s useful idiot who sang songs for David Cameron. Its all very untidy with too many uncomfortable bedfellows, and yet, the Remain vote needs to go to somebody.

Might the SNP at Westminster steady the ship of a revitalised Remain camp, and provide at least a narrow consensus of staying in Europe? Hmmm. Don’t see it. Getting your way is one thing for the SNP, getting the whole Brexit for England kit and caboodle is a toxic swamp that even Shrek wouldn’t fancy.

But strangely I can see a hung parliament are readily as a Tory landslide, particularly if the Tories fracture into Brexiteers, UKippers, and Remainers, with the SNP and Liberal Democrats PERHAPS holding enough seats to form a minority administration, but then, who in their right mind would want to inherit the Tory dog’s breakfast of Brexit? What of Labour? Well, who is there left to care about Labour?

Maybe we should all rally behind a Ruth Harrison grassroots campaign. “Hey Ruth. I’m err.. a closet Tory, and thought you were great on TV backing Remain. If only someone like you would seize the day and challenge Theresa May for Tory Leadership and save us all from Brexit”. Go on Ruthie, you know you want to. Think of it Ruthie, the roar of the grease paint and smell of the crowd; there’s a swamp with your name on it Lady Shrek.

Whatever is going to happen, it’s got a short time frame to happen in, with Council elections right in the middle.

I don’t blame Thereasa May for ducking out TV debates. I would hate to see a grown Prime Minister cry too.

North chiel

K1 @ 1217 pm , ” what does the establishment gain from the act of crushing
Labour”. ?
The reinstatement of the unionist ( ” red Tory” ) reserve government. As and until Corbyn resigns and the right wing “Blairites” control and lead the Labour Party then the establishment and their
media will never consider to support anything other than the Tory ( 1st team), to rule from Westminster. Over the decades, when the first team requires a break, the reserve team are
” put into bat” and so it goes on . The last genuine social democratic government was under Harold Wilson. Michael Foot was too ” left wing” and the establishment media quickly ” put the boot” into him . In recent times it’s Neo Liberalism all the way and the Tory ” 1st team” will remain in power as and until a ” suitable 2nd team” is in place ( to give them a break). This is basically how the Westminster system works ( hand in hand with their media) .The fault line is because Scottish people by nature are ” social democratic in outlook ( thankfully).

call me dave

@Nana

Brilliant link to Murphy’s Law and CRAP…GERS. Nana. 🙂

Welcome back.

chris kilby

Why not? Labour meekly went along with the Tories’ last cynical ploy to destroy them in Scotland: Better Together.

Arbroath1320

Is it me or does anyone else think Scruffy Fluffy has finally realised his days as an M.P. are numbered in DAYS?

link to twitter.com

galamcennalath

A slogan …

“Make this our last Westminster election ever!”

Swami Backverandah

Labour fancy their chances in 2022, when rUk will be well and truly mired in the massive economic downturn of Tory clusterfuck, more than in 2020, when the full horror will still have yet to be fully unfurled. It’s nothing to do with Corbyn.

Ian

I thought that the visible absence of a tory representative at the 2014 referendum TV debates was weird. No representative of the current UK government other than the party in opposition. Beyond weird really.

Now May also refuses to ‘debate’ with the other party leaders on TV. At the very least the other parties could have said ‘no tv debate, no vote for an election’. But no, they can’t even use what power they have. No wonder that they are treated with such open contempt. The UK becomes more pathetic every day.

Hopefully enough voters in Scotland are tired of the petulance and deluded arrogance from the main UK parties and vote accordingly in May and June.

Swami Backverandah

“WTF am i meant to do in this election? In Bath it’s a two-horse race between the Tories and these guys:”

Vote with your feet and move to Scotland 😀

*ducks hammers*

bugsbunny

Ruth Davidson would want to go that way. She always wanted to be hung like a man.

Robert Peffers

Just to say it is great to see Nana back again. Her hard work was greatly missed.

Also for those interested in the GERS figures link, here is a link to the Holyrood TV coverage of the committee meeting:-

link to twitter.com

Marie Clark

Welcome back to the MT, your links are always very informative.

Now you take things easy and don’t overdo it until you are a bit stronger.

Fred

@ Boris, every pensioner should read that!

Arbroath1320

As the inglorious Coward of the Country will not be attending TV debates I believe I have found a late replacement for her.

link to youtube.com

Nana

@call me dave

Report from the meeting to be published on the 24th, should be interesting.

link to parliament.scot

You can watch the meeting on parly tv. Look for Finance and Constitution Committee
link to scottishparliament.tv

Macart

@Nana

Hope you’re feeling better Nana. 🙂

boris
call me dave

@Nana

I have a look at the Parli tv at Holyrood and WM but have sickened myself lately with the politics glass half empty me.

Still YES though that will never change.

PS:

I would like Mundell to be ousted but the Green vote coming across is not enough if the Unionist lab voters boak and vote with the Tories. 🙁

Think he did say ‘leadership pitch’ on the Cooper thing. 🙁

sensibledave

Richardinho 12:55 pm

I wrote: “UK does Brexit, I don’t see anyway that Scotland wont be part of said Brexit”

You wrote “That’s a pretty silly thing to say on a website dedicated to Scottish independence.”

Keep up Richardinho!

Assuming that the UK does Brexit in the next couple of years then, almost no matter what, Scotland will BRexit because it will still be part of the UK by then.

arthur thomson

Corbyn is simply thick.

winifred mccartney

Corbyn if he votes for an early election will be proved to be the tories little helper and keep them in power for next 5 years with no hope of defeating them on anything. As said above the answer from labour should have been ‘now is not the time’ and watch the electoral frauders jailed and the majority disappear.

Great to hear from you Nana – hope you keep well.

archieologist

If the Tories make the election in Scotland about Indy ref 2 and lose as no doubt they will, this could strengthen Nicola Sturgeon’s hand. If Labour lose heavily I reckon many Scottish Labour supporters sickened by 5 more years of Tory rule from London will support Indy Ref 2 and a Yes vote.

Scott Shaw

It seems that Turkeys do vote for Christmas. Nearly all the tories of all hues voted for xmas, 13 against.

Valerie

@Ken500

Maybe you can go on Wiki and alter Clive Lewis profile then, as you know more.

He served 3 months and came back with depression. He voted against nuclear.

Peter McCulloch

My concern for this up coming general election is, we may lose some good SNP MPs, if labour voters vote tactically for the Tories and Libdems to keep the SNP out.

By the way I still haven’t had anything from the Tories or Libdems in the Methil,Buckhaven & Wemyss vilages ward 22 here in Fife.

But then that’s no surprise as they have no real presence locally and treat the people with utter contempt as they only put up paper candidates who never show face.

Thepnr

I can’t figure out Labours thinking behind this either, with a 20% lead over Labour I don’t think there’s much chance of a hung parliament and apparently Labour won’t work with “those people” the SNP anyway as pointed out earlier.

It has to be as others have suggested, that even if Corbyn wanted to follow a different path I think so many of has party would have disregarded him and voted with the Tories anyway.

So come June and now confirmed we will have a GE and no doubt new Leaders of the Red Tories in Scotland & England right after the result is known.

Valerie

Oh, one Labour man with a brain, he voted against HIS PARTY, ken500, against a General Election.

What a bunch of turkeys.

starlaw

best ground to fight the GE would be the welfare state. Yoons will do our Indy work for us.
Could pull in pensioners vote specially if they think their Bus Passes or pensions could be cut.

Proud Cybernat

Paxman: “Are you thick?”

Corbyn: “Hell yes!”

Bob Mack

So ends the total evisceration of Labour.
They, even with the inevitable new leader will take many years to return to electability.

OK .Straight fight between us indy supporters and the Tories in Scotland.

Brian McHugh

The SNP are going to need to get busy nominating candidates for all those English constituencies.

laukat

Whilst it looks like the Greens may stand aside in Fluffy Mundell’s seat to allow the SNP a clear challenge would it not be better to go with an Independent candidate such as Denis Canavan who could stand on a pro-eu/proindy/anti-tory platform?

Ian Brotherhood

Quite ‘funny’ to remember people of my parents generation banging on about how the Unions ‘held the country to ransom’ when you see the antics of these selfish WM bastards.

Thepnr

I see Michelle Thomson and Natalie McGarry were two of the thirteen to vote against another General Election. Interesting.

Jack Murphy

For Newbies and Latecomers:
Tommy Sheppard MP for Edinburgh East in the Commons today,tears into the Tory’s Snap General Election/Brexit Shenanigans.

Parliament TV
Right scroll to 14:19:41

link to parliamentlive.tv

Quentin Quale

Fed up with abstaining on everything and allowing Tory policy to get passed, Labour finally admit they are on the side of the Tories by voting with them.

asklair

Gut feeling it’s not going in our direction.
After the local election, things will become clearer.
UK is becoming a great place to live if you have money and good health. Do not fall ill or get into financial difficulties, and never get old.

Thepnr

Regarding Natilie McGarry, one of these two stories is wrong. STV has McGarry taken to hospital after fainting during PMQ. The Evening Times has her voting against another GE?

link to archive.is

link to archive.is

Can’t trust anything you read, as Legerwood pointed out earlier Nicola Sturgeon went to London last night and not early this morning which was stated on Politics Home earlier and that I linked to.

The media are more useless than even Labour.

call me dave

Ian Murray MP… pending!

Just filled in my single line Political Bingo Card.

ie: 1979 and all that. TICK!

Still he’s got his UJ suit to keep him warm as he goes job hunting.

shug

The SNP should put up candidates in Northern England and call for redrawing the border. It would cause such frothing it could make the whole election enjoyable

North chiel

Peter McCulloch @ 0300 pm. Peter, if you have a look online at the 2015 election results in Scotland, you will see that in the vast majority of constituencies, the SNP have huge leads over Labour in second place with the Tories usually 3rd or 4th with a fraction of the SNP vote . There is more chance of Teresa May becoming leader of the European Union than the Tories winning even a handfull of seats in Scotland.
Don’t worry on that score Peter.

Gfaetheblock

Mcgarry and Thomson may be desperate to keep their £70k salaries and expenses, but this does not look good for them. At least it shows that they are making decisions independent of the SNP whip.

heedtracker

Gfaetheblock says:
19 April, 2017 at 3:53 pm
Mcgarry and Thomson may be desperate to keep their £70k salaries and expenses, but this does not look good for them. At least it shows that they are making decisions independent of the SNP whip.

Why is it not a good look?

Scott Shaw

Shug, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Do it on a ticket of reuniting the north of England down to the wall back to Scotland as it should be.

Thepnr

This piece by Brian Monteith today shows how the gullible are manipulated by what they read, truly horrendous guff.

I’ve haven’t read anything like this in quite a while. Seriously bad.

link to archive.is

Robert Graham

The bbc helpful as ever with the results of the vote Re the proposed general election , this just by chance lets them mention natalie McGarry & Michelle Thomson just to give us a clear unbiased appraisal of the situation Aye feckin right , as i understand it Michelle Thomson hasn’t been charged with anything so why does it merit comment ?
The BBC as usual approach any story involving the SNP with their own twisted agenda .

Jack Murphy

HEADLINE BBC on-line UK-wide from London:
“Snap election approved by MPs”.

HEADLINE from BBC Scotland on-line.
“SNP MPs abstain as early election backed.
SNP MPs abstain as the House of Commons overwhelmingly back the PM’s plan for snap general election”.

Same but very different emphasis for North Briton readers.

Expect similar from BBC Reporting Scotland TV tonight—if there’s anyone left watching it.

Bob Mack

McGarry is pregnant. Fainted during PMQ”s. Seen by medical staff. I doubt she actually voted at all.

Tinto Chiel

Mr Bateman clarifies his thinking:

link to derekbateman.scot

Amen to all that.

Robert J. Sutherland

I can’t help but shake the feeling that UKGE is a complete unwanted distraction for us. Just another chance for the London-centric to gloat over us (whenever they can bother to spare us any attention at all, that is).

But there may be an upside nevertheless. Some Labourites in Scotland have been clinging on in the hope that 2020 would provide a change in fortune, but that hope is surely going to turn to dust in a mere months’ time. What then?

Maybe they’ll now finally see what we have already long seen. And alt-media propagandists like Hothersall will be revealed for the London establishment shills they have always been.

Robert J. Sutherland

Tinto Chiel @ 16:34,

Thanks for that update. That’s been my view also as from yesterday.

There must definitely be a hardening of the SNP stance now. A clear committment to indy in the manifesto, so no-one can dismiss the results, try as they might (which of course predictably they will).

Legerwood

It would appear from reports in the Guardian that quite a few Labour MPS are not going to stand in this election. For example, Alan Johnston.

Therefore as well as having to find 59 candidates to contest seats in Scotland Labour is also going to find quite a few in England to contest those now vacant seats.

link to archive.is

Susan Macdiarmid

Perhaps Jeremy Corbyn read this:

“Secondly, assuming it goes ahead, May has nothing to gain and everything to lose. Under the UK’s electoral system, there are very few likely Tory gains from Labour or the SNP, and the Lib Dems have almost no seats for the Tories to take. Labour are already close to rock bottom under FPTP – what seats they still hold are safe ones.”

schrodingers cat

shug says:

The SNP should put up candidates in Northern England and call for redrawing the border. It would cause such frothing it could make the whole election enjoyable
—————————–
if they wont, stand candidates in northumbria under the SNNP banner, same logo etc, the yoons be like busta blood vessel

——————————-

Tinto Chiel , i think i get where derek is coming from, we can no longer pretend to be anything other than the independence party, i agree. those times are past, snp should now be full on independence
————————-

Robert J. Sutherland, agreed, labour voters in scotland are staring at an extinction event, there will be no new dawn for them. I cant see them being motivated to get out and vote labour. good, this will increase the snps over all % of the vote

Charles O'Brien

Well most opinions are in agreement its a stitch up done on Labour,but surely the wee devil in us all would just love Jeremy Corbyn surprise us all and pull it off and win a small majority,and screw the Tories.I just love the thought of it happening.Next of my daydream is Labour losing its small majority,Scotland having 59 SNP MP,s,and bailing them out for a price.Ah I could fall asleep dreaming of this.Still back to the business in hand watch out if you have a Dalmatian puppy,keep it on a short lead especially if in central London,I drift again.There must be more than just the one reason for her squirming out of the fixed parliament act,not just the 30 or so Tory cheats(there must be 330 of them at least half of them not crooks?)not just because she is 20 points ahead in the polls.Not because Labour is at its weakest not just those three things,I’m sure there is more really dirty laundry which of course we wont find out about until much later in the year.

Albert Herring

“The SNP should put up candidates in Northern England and call for redrawing the border. It would cause such frothing it could make the whole election enjoyable”

They could do a yoon and stand as “English SNP”.

Brian Powell

So, on B Monteith in the Scotsman, if a loss of an SNP MP means lessening the case for a referendum, the massive loss of Lab and LibDem MPs must have meant what for Labour and the LibDems?

schrodingers cat

North chiel says:
19 April, 2017 at 3:49 pm

Peter McCulloch @ 0300 pm. Peter, if you have a look online at the 2015 election results in Scotland, you will see that in the vast majority of constituencies,
—————————

true, but in about 10 seats the snp dont, some have majorities of less than 500-1000.

the lack of snp supporters gotv in 2016, let 7-8 of these areas slip into the unionists hands, eg NEF

we should make a point of targeting theses seat, the yoons definately will

Meg merrilees

Unbelievable – the labour party could have had the tories on the wire today.
If they had voted down the GE May would most likely have resigned.

How history pivots on a simple wrong decision. This is an incredible error from Corbyn.

Two things we must not lose sight of:

Scotland already has her mandate for Independence – that was voted on in Holyrood a few weeks ago, just as Article 50 was triggered.
Nicola is still waiting for a reply from the PM.

GE 17 cannot be a reflection of our views on Independence if the vote is not given to 16-17 year olds.
Caroline Lucas asked for this to be considered this afternoon.
16-17 year olds are approx.72% in favour of Independence so without their votes, the figures will be lower than actuality.

We can learn from our history.
The Bruce planned where and when he would fight his enemy at Bannockburn and although greatly outnumbered, we were victorious. They were made to fight on our terms and this is the key to winning GE17 and Indy.

Andy Murray wins much easier and faster when he attacks rather than playing defensively.

The Tories are the nasty party so it will not be easy or clean but we have to go on ‘attack mode’. We saw that in WM this afternoon from our MP’s and we have to continue where they left off. We’ve been here before and we can do it again…

“for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom.”

Mike

I think this is further proof that Corbyn is actually a hard brexiteer.
Its the only thing that makes sense.

Iain More

May handed Labour a knotted rope and they stuck their own necks in it and even kicked away the stool. To think that the clunking fist will have been Labours last PM of the UK or even the rUK. I can only say rot in hell Labour.

Brian Powell

schrodingers cat

The SNP vote in NE Fife in 2016 increased by 400 to 11400. The constituency for Holyrood is different than for Westminster, excluding towns like Leven.

Cadogan Enright

If there are any Scottish Greens reading this then a bit of help would help here in Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk too link to en.m.wikipedia.org

Edinburgh South would be a help as well, reducing the gap to a manageable 600 votes link to en.m.wikipedia.org

heedtracker

Swinging around yoon culture online, it looks like SNP losing even one Westminster MP, will mean Scotland does not want independence, let alone indy ref2.

Its that mad in yoon world now.

Then there’s SLabour oddities like,

Scott Arthur?
@DrScottThinks

1979 – The SNP vote down Labour to usher in Thatcher.
2017 – The SNP abstain when they have a chance to end Tory rule.

This dudes standing for election as SLab councilor too I think.

Hamish100

Still waiting for Gordon Brown to parade up and down with placard waving acolytes saying SNP fault SNP fault.

Look forward to see Davidson in front of the public explaining the Tories performance in England in the NHS, schools foreign affaires and of course penalising the disable and infirm oh nearly forgot as she has been hiding her support of the disgraced policy re the rape victims.

Just heard the Tories are fighting against centralisation!! Have they never heard of Independence?

TheWasp

On 5 live now Mays speech in Bolton. SNPbad, stronger, stable, SNPbad, stronger, stable continue ad nausiam

galamcennalath

It is absolutely sickening that whatever the result of this totally undemocratic Westminster election one thing is certain – most voters will have rejected the government which will take over.

The Tories got 36.1% of votes in 2015. 63.9% of voters didn’t want them. Pathetic.

If May et al wins, they will have no mandate by the standards which apply in normal countries across Europe. The UK is an anomaly with its ancient undemocratic FPTP system.

Training Day

Helpful cut out and keep guide on how to defeat the SNP in key constituencies provided by ‘Scottish’ television news there. File under ‘who is best placed unionist’.

What a pile of shits our MSM ‘journalists’ are.

ronnie anderson

Ah wiz working oan ah Pie chart tae quantify Labours stupidity but ah hit the buffers, ah canny fit Mars in the comment box.

Macart

Lesley Riddoch telling it like it is.

link to twitter.com

Gfaetheblock

Heedtracker

It does not look good because:

1. Despite protesting their innocence, they do not follow the SNP whip
2. Despite protesting their innocence, their actions suggest that they know that they have no support from the party, hence point 1
3. It could be interpreted that they are most concerned about preserving their income, which since both have accusations of financial impropriety handing over them, does not look good
4. Irrespective of if the above is the case, they do not have the wit to understand that their actions can and probably be perceived that way

That is how I think it looks, and I do not think that looks good for the two ladies, or the SNP.

Do you read it differently?

yesindyref2

OT – defence update!
First, the contract for the 6th Astute (of 7) signed, about time too. Nuke powered but not nuke missile. HMS Ocean (helo carrier) is apparently up for sale to Brazil at £80 million. And it looks like the QE carrier will deploy in 2021 with 1 squadron of F35-B and perhaps one squadron from the USMC. Also though a good complement of helicopters, including 820 Sqn with 9 Merlin Mk2 for anti-sub and 4 or 5 for AEW (Airborne Early Warning). Personally I think that’s fine, better to have 2 superlative world class big carriers for 30 odd years, with limited planes to start with (24 F35-B planned by 2023), than 2 inferior too small carriers – considering the role the UK wants to play in the world. But both operational, not one mothballed or sold off. The QE could deploy in 2020 in an emergency, but not recommended.

Now, of great interest to me is that Merlin Mk2, a very capable anti-sub, recently upgraded from the Mk1. Something even though expensive, the Scottish Navy would want perhaps 5 or 6 of. They can go on the T45, T23/T26 and even the batch 2 OPV though it doesn’t have a hangar – which is perhaps no disavantage for the inshore 200nm EEZ use we’d have for them. Also land-based of course, the likes of Lossiemouth. So basically speaking the Merlin or equivalent is on my shopping list.

cearc

Should definitely stand candidates in every constituency that is north or part-north of Hadrian’s wall.

That might stop the repeated, ‘Rebuild Hadrian’s Wall’, cry and provide a great service to english voters by educating them to the whereabouts of their border!

Richardinho

I wouldn’t put too much focus on dethroning David Mundell. Even if successful, it’s likely that the Tories will win at least 1 other seat in Scotland (possibly Roxburgh and Berwickshire) and that individual will be just as obnoxious (being a Tory after all). I think every seat will be a hard fight for the SNP and none should be taken for granted.

heedtracker

Gfaetheblock says:
19 April, 2017 at 6:20 pm
Heedtracker

That’s all very smeary. Dob enough shit and see what sticks basically.

Might work. SNP could lose them this time. What about the rest?

North chiel

Re Schrödinger’s cat @ 0524pm . Can see only 1 seat where
SNP majority is under 1000 :
Berwick Roxburgh& Peebles man 428 over cons
East Dunbartonshire man. 2167 over Libdems
Can only see another 4 seats with majorities under 5000 :
Caithness Sutherland& Easter Ross SNP maj over Libdems 3844
East Renfrewshire SNP maj over Lab 3720
Edinburgh West Michelle Thompson maj over Libdems 3210 ( special circumstances here)
North East Fife SNP maj over Libdems 4344 ( however Stephen Gettins has done an outstanding job at Westminster . Surely will hold this?)
Possibly Dumfries & Galloway SNP maj over Cons 6514 could be vulnerable to Labour switch to Tories?
There are 2 ” unionist seats” vulnerable to the SNP

Tinto Chiel

Robert J Sutherland and Cat: yes, I’m hoping the manifesto will be carefully but clearly worded to be lawyer-proof and will make a commitment to independence quite explicit.

Getting really cheesed off with the desperate Yoon “Lose any SNP WM seats and you’ve no mandate” havers.

Seven weeks of this to come, rewound and repeated ad nauseam.

DerekM

@ Gfaetheblock

So after all that bullshit you come on here and ask about the 2 ex SNP MP`s and how they voted independently.

You do know how a parliamentary party whip operates yes.

So if they had followed the SNP whip would you now be saying they were coerced into voting with a parliamentary whip from a political party they no longer represent.

Give yourself a shake laddie might loosen the cobwebs inside your brain or at least learn how a parliament works before uttering complete bollocks.

Proud Cybernat

“Getting really cheesed off with the desperate Yoon “Lose any SNP WM seats and you’ve no mandate” havers.”

It’s pish and they damn well know it’s pish. And the Scottish electorate know it’s pish too.

The fools can delude themselves into believing their own steaming keech if they want to but back here on planet Earth we all understand that when your side gets at least 1 more than the other lot, THAT IS A MAJORITY AND A VICTORY.

Pile o’ smelly pants, them Yoons.

BTW – will ‘Yoon’ be nominated this year for the OED new word of the year?

manandboy

Theresa May announces Sir Lynton Crosby as her campaign manager for GE17 on June 8.

Wasn’t Theresa lucky that Sir Lynton was free at such short notice.

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

James Barr Gardner

Mike says:
19 April, 2017 at 5:38 pm
I think this is further proof that Corbyn is actually a hard brexiteer.
Its the only thing that makes sense.

It’s either that or he is a long term MI6 mole ? Remember the City of London elite always, always play the long game!

Betty Boop

@ starlaw, 10:53am


Tory Labour both the same. State always comes first, Labour have no wish to defeat the Tories on matters of State.

You got it in two lines! I’ll give the answer in one word, Establishment.

galamcennalath

Macart says:

Lesley Riddoch telling it like it is.

Always excellent. She should front the next Yes campaign. Media skilled, independent of the SNP, knows her stuff, perfect. And a ‘new Scot’ ! 🙂

Dorothy Devine

I too watched in amazement as the STV team told the world how to defeat the SNP , even gave the various seats where they might be unseated.

Quite astonishing that they have the cheek to call themselves Scottish television , yet preach against one party and those who would prefer independence.

As for their evening programme , well I will give it a miss forever , I look forward to it being pulled when no audience can be found.

To add insult to injury the entire debacle was followed by Oor Wullie giving us the Honest Joe ,slow speaking drivel for which he is renowned.

STV – keep you news app!

Robert Graham

Michelle Thomson has not been charged with any offence and this despite the smear campaign mounted against her , that was meant as an attack on the SNP ,The BMSM doesn’t need any assistance in spreading shite , please don’t give them any assistance .

Dorothy Devine

P.S I see a dinosaur is going to stand for the Tory Party – Ken Clarke.

Now he is only 5 years older than me but he ‘erms’and ‘aaahs’
to such an extent when he talks that he drives me to drink – I suppose I should appreciate and enjoy that.

HandandShrimp

It will be interesting to see what Dr Von Scott and Ian Murray say on the 9th of May if the polls are correct and Labour crash and burn and hand May a huge 5 year majority. Who then will have ushered in an era of Tory doom?…and make no mistake it will be doom.

Given how useless Murray thinks Corbyn is he seems very keen put it all to the test. Or is this just the fast track to get rid of Corbyn?

Gfaetheblock

Derekm

It is a shame that you think my opinion is ‘complete bollocks’, but I fully well know how parliament works and surprised that if there was a positive relationship between thomson and mcgarry and the party, that they did not follow the party line. Esp. Thomson, who there has been some fairly positive vibes to from the Westminster parliamentary party.

Thomson is my MP and I have ask her is she is seeking reelection, but she has yet to respond. If these MPs had the support and backing of the party, then the SNP could allow them to stand unopposed and bring them back into the fold once exonerated. Is this ‘complete bollocks’ as well?

yerkitbreeks

If you read ” The Hangman’s Tale ” you’ll realise that the fastest cell – drop interval was less than four seconds with Pierrepoint in charge.

Probably the time Cambridge Analytica takes to round up our social media data to work out if we’re worth contacting.

Lenny Hartley

FFS ch4 news in the borders , reporter asks some snp guy, surely if the SNP get less than 56 seats then they don’t have a mandate for an Indy Referendum, and the so called SNP Clown agrees with him! These idiots should not be allowed near a TV camera or radio mike.

Thepnr

@HandandShrimp

“Or is this just the fast track to get rid of Corbyn?”

Haha take it that’s you having a wee jest Mr Shrimp 🙂

Cactus

SO the triggering of Article 50 happened on the 29th March 2017.

Which makes it exactly 3 weeks as of today.

1 week is a lang time in politics
2 weeks is a generation in politics
3 weeks is a lifetime in politics

SO after what you’ve seen and heard these past 21 days Scotland…

Any change of thought yet you undecided no leavers?

Do you need another couple of weeks?

Vote Yes!
Stay Sane.

Nana

@Robert Peffers 2.13pm

Thanks Robert, it’s good to be back.

@Macart

I’m getting there Sam, slow but sure.

@call me dave

I watched the Mundell clip a few times, I also think he said “leadership pitch”

but he is still a useless so and so

It’s a UK election says David Mundell. Tories will ignore Scottish result. I’d say that constitutes a major gaffe.

video here
link to twitter.com

and again

Hannah asked @DavidMundellDCT to save Livingston #HMRC jobs as a last act of kindness while he still has his seat.

video here
link to twitter.com

Cactus

Remain sane.

It’s got to be…

SNP.
X.

Thepnr

I think most that post here on Wings are rightly critical in the belief that the SNP do not play hardball enough and that at times there is too much pussyfooting around.

Is this criticism really justified though if you yourself are prone to pussyfooting around? Ask yourself how willing you are to bring up the subject of Independence with anyone that is not family.

If your like me then there won’t be that many, there’s a very good reason of course for that, we don’t want to fall out with friends or strangers, we don’t want to be “divisive” as Ruth loves to say we are. No in the main we mainly just want to get along with all we meet and live among.

I think that has to change though and in a big way, just as we are demanding of the SNP to get tougher I think so too must we.

Wear our hearts on our sleeves from here on in, make it perfectly clear everyday what side of the fence you sit on.

Talk to strangers you might meet about Independence when the opportunity presents itself. Let’s be a Hundred times more visible than we were last time. I hope I don’t sound harsh I know YES were much more visible than anything else but that was usually only at the various gatherings.

We have to be visible every single day as many were of course but the vast majority weren’t as visible as they could have been, including me.

I support Scottish Independence. Loud and Proud and I won’t let anyone forget it.

Meg merrilees

Kezia needs to found a whole lot of new candidates. With a bit of luck maybe Jacquie Baillie, Ken Mc Intosh and James Kelly will stand for WM. Any others we’d like to send to the other place?

Delighted that Nicola went to London – good strategic move. Couldn’t fail to put her on the TV news then.

Legerwood

Lenny Hartley @ 7.34 pm

You misrepresent what the SNP supporter said by only mentioning part of his answer. He made it very clear that the SNP was not going to lose any seats and we’re not going to lose that particular seat based on what he had been hearing on the streets.

Here is the link to the item if people want to watch it for themselves. About 1.30 might in

link to channel4.com

Criticism would be better directed at the reporter and his assertion that the GE is going to be a referendum on having a referendum then quoting Theresa May’said article in the Scotsman.

James Barr Gardner

SLAB will be finished after June’17, there is no way back for them, their MSPs will wither on the vine. They’ve taken the Scottish voter for granted and still do so incredulously considering how incompetent they are, Scots are canny and their sick to teeth with SLAB’s pretense as a working class party. Their legacy of deceit will last longer than Thatcher’s.

As for the so called Scottish Press they too will soon be finished, folk might buy a paper for the football but that does not mean they believe the rest of the paper is truth,unbiased,fair or even up to date compared to what’s on offer on the Web. Today’s Scottish voter are more politically savvy than ever before. Stop buying MSM papers even if it’s only till the 9th of June, why give London your hard earned cash to be patronized, lied to by this scum, remember they were the phone hackers.

The BBC is the propaganda organ of the City of Westminster, it always has been but now it does not even bother with the pretense of being unbiased or fair. They no longer give any thought to the jingoistic garbage that’s pumped out daily, journalistic standards falling year on year, it’s their London centric mindset run on distilled arrogance and hatred of anything that is not english. Just remember you give them money, for them to lie to you.

May 4th & June 8th is your chance to exert your view of the collective corrupt City of London or it’s short name Cesspit !

As for voter exhaustion those clowns down there don’t realise we’re just getting our second wind along with a wee adrenaline kick.

Meantime VOTE INDY, VOTE SCOTLAND, VOTE FUTURE. The SNP & NICOLA your’re playing a blinder for SCOTLAND.

Legerwood

Meg merrilees says:
19 April, 2017 at 8:23 pm

“”Delighted that Nicola went to London – good strategic move. Couldn’t fail to put her on the TV news then.””

……..
It was completely fortuitous that Ms Sturgeon was in London. She had an engagement in London on Tuesday so clearly stayed over due to the announcement.

I am sure if Mrs May had known she would have delayed the announcement ?

It was priceless on Reporting Scotland news tonight when the reporter was walking along giving his piece to camera while Ms Sturgeon were walking along behind him. They caught up with him, heard what he was saying and Ms Sturgeon put her arm around him. Cue end of report and mega embarrassment for the reporter – all caught on camera.

Mike

Irony Klaxon. The BBC reporting on Fake news.

Fred

Mc Garry’s onto plums here! Roxburgh/Peebles, good guy well liked locally, kent his faither!

Nana

@Legerwood

Here’s Nicola catching up with the bbc reporter

O/T

James Kelly writing in ibtimes

link to ibtimes.co.uk

Nana

Guess I should post the link d’oh!

Nicola catches up with bbc reporter
link to twitter.com

Rock

The establishment and media will never allow a centre left Labour government at Westminster.

The likes of Corbyn can never win. If by any chance they do, they will destroyed very quickly.

New Labour was a continuation of Tory rule.

The only purpose of Labour is to give the illusion that there is democracy at Westminster.

Their record is backing Tory policies or abstaining to let them pass.

For a very long time they got away in Scotland with their lie of voting Labour to prevent the Tories.

The SNP should never ever trust Labour or do any deals with them.

Macart

@Nana

Good to know Nana, but take her easy nonetheless. We’ll need oor bestest in the not too distant future. 😉

Cactus

Cactus says: SO

Just wanted to see what that looked like.

To the gallows!

DerekM

@ Gfaetheblock

I do not think you do or you would understand why they had to vote against.

If the SNP had voted against instead of abstaining then it would be fine but the SNP did not they abstained and if your MP had followed this then they would be admitting to still taking the SNP parliamentary whip.

And you can bet it would used against the SNP by the yoon press.

So now do you get it?

stewartb

If in a FPTP Westminster general election, one party can become the all-powerful government of all of the UK – ‘speaking’ for all of the UK on everything and anywhere in the world – with much less than 50% of the popular vote and with only one or a few more MPs than all other parties across the UK combined.

In this system, the SNP will continue to represent the majority view of the Scottish electorate even with fewer MPs than at present – should this be the outcome. To me, the key issue is the wording of the manifesto that the SNP puts to the electorate in June.

And this wording should NOT be about getting mandate for an Indyref2 – that mandate has already been secured! The status of the prior decisions of the electorate at the last Scottish Parliamentary election and then the vote in the Scottish Parliament regarding an indyref2 MUST be sustained and respected – not diluted.

Effijy

Shouldn’t the Tories be keeping Labour in a dry box with straw in it?

They went into hibernation years ago and the Tories only drag them out to play with them and make fun of them.

I heard Mrs May bought Jeremy a Hamster Fur Jacket for the Winter but after leaving parliament in it he went missing?
Turns out he was going round on the London Eye Wheel for 4 hours. lol

Kez the Dippy Dug was on Shortbread Radio earlier.
It seems that she is pledging to build few homes per year than the SNP Government, and see this as a strength.

Do you think she forgot that when Labour last controlled the Scottish Parliament they built 6 new houses over 5 years?

If we look at Labour’s Disastrous costs for the new Holyrood parliament building, the Edinburgh Trams fiasco, the PFI Schools and Hospitals build at Loan Shark rates of Interest, etc, you know that Labour couldn’t run a Bath.

schrodingers cat

Brian Powell
schrodingers cat

The SNP vote in NE Fife in 2016 increased by 400 to 11400. The constituency for Holyrood is different than for Westminster, excluding towns like Leven.

———————————–
the difference between the holyrood and westminster constituencies for NEF are very small, including half of the ward of leven approx 3000 people and 2000 voters, they are a mixture of lib/lab/snp voters so the overall difference between the the constituencies is neglegable

in 2015
snp 18k
libs 14k
2016
snp 11k
libs 14k

the snp do have supporters in nef, no doubt about it, but like the rest of scotland, snp and labour voters dropped about 30% between the GE and the HE. we would expect a drop in turnout , perhaps not so big but, par for the course. however, the lib dem vote held up and the tories increased by 64k.
thats why the tories and the libdem seats, not because of some huge swing to the tories but because the snp voters didnt show up.
thats why here in our ward in nef our focus is on getting out our vote.
our worry is that the snp voter turn out drops even more (turn out in local elections is usually 30-40% ) but that the libdem vote holds up.

all this is possibly of little interest to those in the very safe snp seats with massive majorities like glenrothes, kirkaldy etc, where the tories and libdems are nowhere, but there are a fair few seats in scotland which are much less secure.
we should target our energies in these areas, as the yoons most definately will

Thepnr

That CH4 clip Legerwood posted was pretty good, I think the SNP supporter was just trying to bolster support and didn’t mean that if the SNP failed to hang on to their 56 MP’s then an Indy Ref was unjustified.

I understand what Lenny Hartley was saying though and that this type of mistake is to be avoided at all costs especially if it comes from elected officials who talk on TV and fail to pull up interviewers on matters that an average WOS reader would know.

The older guy has an excuse though for his mistake and I would never hold it against him. He’s one of us that just hasn’t read Wings yet 🙂

galamcennalath

So TMay has declared that this election is about the country uniting behind her, Brexit, and the Tories!

Fair enough, I take it that means she will call off Brexit then resign if she fails to get 50% of the votes cast!?

call me dave

Just finished herding cats in an evening class… 7 attended all male between 25yrs and 35yrs (3 SNP) (1 GREEN) (3 DGAF@ck!) 🙂

All electricians, all pretty smart.
………………………………………………….

Hope this link works.

Here’s Nicola ambushing the BBC man.

link to twitter.com

Read this on WoS twitter. I’m Sorry says Elizabeth.

link to archive.is

Thepnr

@stewartb

I shouldn’t think you should have to worry too much, the manifesto surely will clearly state that the SNP already have a manifesto for a second referendum.

Potentially it could also state that this vote could reinforce it if more SNP MP’s are elected than the others combined. That is their goal and not 56 MP’s again.

The SNP won’t make any stupid mistakes in the wording of their manifesto for this GE with regard to a second referendum.

Capella

Why the talk of the SNP losing seats in the GE?

Electoral Calculus predicts that the SNP will still have 56 seats. Two are vulnerable to be lost to the Cons – Richard Arkless and Calum Kerr. Both are in the Borders. But two are likely to be gained, Ian Murray’s Edinburgh South seat and Alisdair Carmichael’s Orkney seat.

If Calum Kerr and Richard Arkless get enough support, and the Greens stand aside where they lost their deposit last time, then the Borders seats might still be won – including David Mundell’s.

link to electoralcalculus.co.uk

call me dave

Jings! snap X 3 with NC.

Artyhetty

Re; manand boy@6.38

Sir Lynton Crosby? Sounds positively mediaeval. What next. Hah! On guard! Swords out, swashbuckling daggers at dawn fantasy stuff. These people inhabit a land which is long in the tooth, old hat and has no place in a modern democracy. Except we all know that Britanatia is no democracy. It is an illusion created by the establishment.

The elephant in the room is why call this GE and why now. So we all just accept and abide by tory rules britannia, again. Really when the chips are down, the electorate have very liitle say. They can’t veto this GE.

It’s like some dystopian society, where the rich and powerfull call all the shots. Of course that cannot be sustained forever.

It’s great to see so many now joining the SNP. Shame EU citizens and 16/17 year olds are not alowed to vote in a GE. Maybe they should vote anyway, online or something, just to show that they should have a vote about the immediate future of their country, or chosen country, and how that might have a bearing on the result.

Scotland’s council elections on May 4th are going to be rather interesting.

heraldnomore

And there’s more effijy – when Slab did there masterclass in housebuilding they didn’t just have control of Holyrood, but Westminster too, and the cooncils. They yanked all the chains, and produced sod all, which is a significant part of why they are where they now are (but by no means all).

Brian Powell

schrodingers cat

The SNP vote in 2016 was 11,400. Increased vote.

Gfaetheblock

Derekm,

I really do not get your point, maybe I am just too thick. By extension of your logic, Thomson could never vote the same as SNP as this means she was taking the whip. I cannae be arsed checking her voting record but I suspect she has followed the whip previously.

Thomsons’ twitter makes interesting reading, is her criticism of Sturgeon is part of preventing yoon media saying that they are taking the whip?

‘I voted no against #GE17 – this is a time for leadership from the opposition not abstention’

Robert Louis

I must say, Derek Bateman (who in my opinion is very level headed) is hitting it straight on the nail, with his recent comments on his blog. He effectively argues, that in this election our cry should not be ‘we want a referendum’, but rather it should be ‘we want independence’.

He makes many of the points I made yesterday, but much more lucidly than I could. He also makes it clear he is not advocating UDI.

Here is a short quote;

“At the moment, by endlessly pleading with a tin ear government in London for the right to consult our own people, we play their game. We make it sound as if our objective is indyref2 itself when it is of course independence. May and her team have proved themselves impervious to reason and enemies of democracy – using it only as a means of self-advancement even when they legislated to avoid snap elections. She isn’t listening to Sturgeon and won’t until the Brexit process is over and it’s too late.

To her we are bleating about needing her permission to hold a vote. Please, please, Theresa. Be nice and say Yes.”

It really is time to up the ante, time to play hardball, because the stark truth is, time is running out.

I do hope the SNP is listening, because they really, really need to.

link to derekbateman.scot

link to derekbateman.scot

I would urge all on here to read what he has written.

Dr Jim

Vote SNP we fight Tory austerity the same as now, the Independence part comes later and that’s where the good deal comes in
For some folk they might not want Independence but voting SNP you get the choice to say No or Yes, Vote Tory you get no choice of anything

Maybe that would make a snappy slogan

Vote SNP for choice

galamcennalath

All gone quiet on Syria and North Korea. Funny how stories can go out of fashion with the media overnight.