Remedial arithmetic for Unionists
Posted on
February 23, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The reliably toxic Simon Johnson in the Telegraph this morning:
Actual result of referendum: 62-38, a margin of 1.6/1.
Size of Mr Johnson’s casual exaggeration: 25%. (1.6 x 1.25 = 2)
But seriously, though – what is it about believing in the Union that apparently renders educated people suddenly unable to count? We have no idea, but it may go some way to explaining the UK’s credit-rating downgrade.
In standard election parlance, a 12.5% swing required. Manageable.
Actually as someone at my dinner table said last night, if you can get 38% with that electorate you’re cruising for a big win.
Scotland benefits from UK math.
It is due to “spin”, they don’t know how to count normally, perhaps they should go back to school to learn that, I believe Primary schools have a counting with fingers course
It’s “a clear two to one majority against independence”. Says so in The Herald; must be true.
link to heraldscotland.com
Alright alright alright the yes vote actually won easy peasy
anybody who imagines different is either blind,mad or worse much worse a
Unionist……….Yuk!
Also on Better Together social, “2:1 victory for Better Together in Glasgow Uni vote.”
I tries posting this yesterday, but ran out of time.
Seriously, the kiddy on referendum at Glasgow university is nothing to concern yourself about. It is no more than student politics. In reality you will likely find that the result pretty accurately reflects the proprtionate membership of various political societies within the university, and how many flatmates and friends they collectively coerced into voting.
For those who have not been to University or who have forgotten, the reality is simple, students see such mock votes as just that, MOCK VOTES. They are not taken seriously apart from those involved in student political affairs and the student union. Right now, students usually have more important things on their minds, as they are in the run up to their final exams just after easter, and many will have run out of money, or will be desperately applying for either permanent jobs, PhD places or summer jobs.
Within a university, the student politicians, who invariably are all wannabee ‘REAL’ politicians at some stage, get very involved in running campaigns throughout the term, on one topic or another, but most students just pay little heed.
If your workplace held a ‘mock’ referendum, how likely would all the workers be to vote?? Not many I’ll bet, and most who do, will be those who have a keen interest in political matters from either side of the debate. It is exactly the same at University. Just because students don’t vote in a mock referendum, does not mean they won’t vote in the real thing.
As regards the unionists talking about this, it really does not matter. If any political campaign tries to assert the veracity of its arguments based upon such a pretendy referendum, then they clearly have a very flimsy argument. It is akin to clutching at straws. So, independence supporters need to stop getting so defensive about it. It’s not important, and really doesn’t mean a great deal, either way. It’s just a piece of student politics fun.
As a final point, can I just say, some people posting on this topic have been extremely critical of students because they didn’t vote, but this is wholly misplaced criticism. They saw the referendum for what it is, NOT IMPORTANT. Students nowadays, do not have the luxury of full grants and so on, many are burdened with truly frightening levels of debt, and are under intense pressure to secure a job upon graduation. This I think, goes a long way to explain why they are no longer as radical as perhaps they were in the past.
Anyway, bottom line, the mock referendum never was nor is important in the real campaign, and students should not be rubbished by comments, just because they recognised the mock ‘referendum’ was not important and chose not to vote.
I wonder if you compared the combined actual membership of pro and anti-union political clubs at Gasgow Uni. and measure that against the mock referendum percentages. I suspect that the pro-Independence proportion is much greater than membership. I am sure GUSNA and the greens still don’t attrak as many people as the Labour, Tories, and FibDems togeher (I remember there were the distributionists debaters as well. Where did they stand?)
Just another example of the psychological inferiority complex unionists suffer from that they feel the need to over exaggerate everything.
@ R Louis
Yes I agree 100%. You articulate the situation perfectly. If the result had gone the other way, it would have been just as silly for either side to make a fuss of it.
Well have a new political concept …
‘referendum deniers’
“Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the “body of fact” that exists in the mind of the general public”
Brian Ritchie,
Exactly, it is political fluff.
A debate at the West of Scotland Uni on the same night at the GU vote, 70% the audience voted Yes. As it was a informal debate with a show of hands rather than a formal organised poll it didn’t get much coverage.
Well have a new political concept …
‘referendum deniers’
Not at all – the real referendum cannot be denied. Oh no, I’ve been goaded into a response! lol
Och it is what it is…..1.6 or 2/1 who really cares….
It was a mock election….mind when I was at School we took part in thon John Craven’s Newsround Mock Election in 1987…’The SDP/Liberal Alliance won by a country mile….come real election day…..well the adults returned Alex Buchanan Smith (Tory) with a comfortable majority.
A Low Turnout with an electorate hardly representative of the city they study in….and as usual with Student election (well going by the STV Twitter feed anyway) full of the usual personalised bitchiness.
As I recall from my Student Days, Student Activists of all hues tended to repel rather than attract their fellow students…..
And given that 9 out of 10 of GU Students didnae bother their arses to vote I think it’s safe to assume nothing much has changed on that score…..
O/T wonder if someone can help.
Need to correct a few folk on my facebook and was looking for the graphic showing the map of the UK with the £53bn from Scotland to London and the £46Bn in return, rest spent on the olympics, wars etc.
Saw it, didnt save it, wondered where I can find it and if the figures are current an up to date
Thanks
Just a thought, but has anyone considered how grown up the internet will feel after the referendum when unionist trolls will no longer exist.
“Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the “body of fact” that exists in the mind of the general public”
Nikostratos, a small faction of politically active students is not “THE GENERAL PUBLIC”.
The bias in the Brit media is overwhelming – here is an Economist article which argues clearly the case why Scots whisky producers want to remain in EU but then tacks on at the very end a baseless claim they also prefer to stay in UK.
Surely a Wings over Scotland headline there “zero proof UK Whisky” 🙂
link to economist.com
Hey Niko – what’s your thoughts on the UK credit rating downgrade? I know a lot of people that considered this crucial in their decision on independence; the UK no longer being a safe haven financially that is.
Note the people in question hadn’t even heard about the Glasgow referendum, but then that’s hardly a surprise.
Apparently Better Together are out handing out a million leaflets today with the possibilty of losing protection of the UKs AAA credit rating one of the scaremongering points on it.
Embarassing.
Cath.
Would love the Rev. To get hold of one of them and pull apart the rest of the lies on them. It can’t be the only porky on them surely.
cath.
Hope that’s true, what an O.G.
Wonder if it’s the same old “Best Of Both Worlds” one from last year? I’m sure someone will lay their hands on one to find out.
“And let it be noted that there is no more delicate matter to take in hand, nor more doubtful in its success, than to set up as a leader in the introduction of change. For he who innovates will have as his enemies all who are well off under the existing order of things, and only lukewarm supporters in those who might be better off under the new. This lukewarm temper arises partly from the incredulity of mankind, who will never admit the merit of anything new, until they have seen it proven by the event.”
Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince, Chapter VI
I’m in moderation again on an unmoderated site. Please tell me you haven’t a clue what I’m talking about, Rev.
“I’m in moderation again on an unmoderated site. Please tell me you haven’t a clue what I’m talking about, Rev.”
I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. Although you’re showing as 0 posts approved – are you using a dynamic IP, or logging in from a different place?
EDIT: You’ve mistyped your email address. There’s a missing “.” in this version, so Akismet thinks you’re a new user. YOUR FAULT.
http://better.tg/XSir59This is it Rev.
The Tree of Liberty
It’s true Stephen Noon challenged rennie on it this morning with Derek Bateman
scottish_skier
Osborne said our AAA credit rating
must be preserved even at the cost
of throwing the sick and disabled out
into the street.
Oops! just read the news
Osborne said AAA is just one
indicator of many and it dont
matter a toss(economic term for unimportant)
And Danny agreed saying they will just
have to throw the sick and disabled outinto the street even quicker to cut the deficit.
Brian Ritchie
Thanks thats a double bonus
for me from LabourLiesLtd.com
and as me road tax is due
i need the cash.
Indy_Scot
‘after the referendum when unionist trolls will no longer exist.’
no longer exist
Main Entry:
dead ?
Part of Speech:
adjective
Definition:
no longer alive
Synonyms:
asleep, bereft of life, bloodless, bought the farm, breathless, buried, cadaverous, checked out, cold, cut off, deceased, defunct, departed, done for, erased, expired, extinct, gone, gone to meet maker, gone to reward, inanimate, inert, late, lifeless, liquidated, mortified, no more, not existing , offed, out of one’s misery, passed away, perished, pushing up daisies, reposing, resting in peace, spiritless, stiff, unanimated, wasted
Well Im off to make Grahamski
aware of your threat
@Keef
The Better Together leaflet states that “independence is forever”. This is demonstrably a lie. Scotland used to be independent and it’s not now. So how can independence be forever? If independence were forever, we’d still be independent, wouldn’t we? Who the hell writes this stuff?
Jeannie.
You obviously make sense.
The same people who wrote “the war to end all wars”. You know the rest.
“YOUR FAULT.”
I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
😀
Remedial arithmetic for cybernats, “ultimate” or otherwise:
To 1 significant figure, “1.6” and “2” are identical.
However, “win” is never identical to “lose”.
FUN TIP! Next time you’re in a shop and something costs £2, try offering them £1.60 for it and telling them “But it’s the same to 1 significant figure!”
Let us know how you get on.
On the subject of Unionists, i see ESPN have apologised to their viewers, and reported Sevco to the police for sectarian singing.
2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2
More seriously, 0.99999999…. repeating = 1. Proof:
Let x = 0.99999….
Multiply both sides by 10
10x = 9.999999….
But x = 0.999999…., so substituting
10x = 9 + x
Subtract x from both sides:
9x = 9
Divide both sides by 9:
x = 1
QED
Sorry to break into this game of Numberwang – especially with less than inspiring news.
Just back from the Illuminate the Debate march and rally. As someone once said about a poorly attended party – I’ve seen more people at a stabbing in Glasgow.
My appreciation to those who organised it and thanks to those (150?) who attended. But, come on. Several thousand there today and we would at least have merited a mention in the hated MSM. As it is they probably won’t even see the point in taking the piss.
We all agree media bias is one of, if not the biggest threats to a ‘Yes’ vote. Was it not worth a half hour’s stroll along St Vincent St? We had balloons for the weans and everything.
Let’s stop hiding behind our laptops and Facebook pages eh?
“My appreciation to those who organised it and thanks to those (150?) who attended. But, come on. Several thousand there today and we would at least have merited a mention in the hated MSM. As it is they probably won’t even see the point in taking the piss.”
I’ve said before that I don’t think marches are a very effective means of achieving anything at the best of times. But holding one on a freezing cold Saturday in February, with no clearly-defined goal (how do you “draw attention to the failure of the Scottish media to provide a balanced coverage of Scotland’s referendum debate” by walking down the street? What is it exactly that you want done about it?) and a muddled agenda (was it about political balance or gender balance? The two aren’t related) is pretty much the definition of “doomed to fail”. I’m kind of impressed they got as many as 150, if that was the case.
Personally, I’d be thrilled if nobody arranged another march (except the Edinburgh one) between now and the referendum. They’re just hostages to mockery.
“As someone once said about a poorly attended party – I’ve seen more people at a stabbing in Glasgow.”
Never mind. After all, you’re “winning the argument” and “it’s all being sorted out behind the scenes”.
Got a point beyond bad maths and sarcasm Miss Granger? Apologies for the cheap Potter shot 🙂
Mr Threepwood is bang on here. Work prevented me from attending the ‘march’, but I would have been angry & embarassed had I made it.
Maybe 150 ?
Lets put it another way – If the oppostion organised something for Glasgow city centre which attracted this pitiful turn out, we’d be leaping all over it.
Lessons must be learned from this, number one of which is – TURN UP !
A march against a biased media would never be reported by said media.
How many folk still pay the BBC propoganda tax, despite complaining about it?
Hit them in their pockets.
“A march against a biased media would never be reported by said media.
How many folk still pay the BBC propoganda tax, despite complaining about it?
Hit them in their pockets.”
Indeed. An explicit “don’t pay the licence fee” protest would at least have the advantage of being both easily understood and practical. (And have clear appeal for the audience, since it’d save them money…)
@ Rev
As I suspected, the (fleeting) reference to gender balance was just an attempt to get as many folk with a grievance – any grievance – against the MSM out on the street. Not having interviewed everyone there, I have no idea how many, if any, were there to protest at the lack of female spokesfolk on telly. My guess? Hardly any.
As for it being a plea on behalf of both sides of the debate … nah. All I saw were ‘Yes’ badges and saltires.
Maybe it was muddled in its message. Maybe a direct, unequivocal assault on the BBC and Herald/Scotsman axis would have served the organisers better. The speeches at the end certainly pulled no punches in that regard.
But, while I bow to no-one in my admiration and thanks for the work wee Trojans like yourself do for the cause, Rev, I fear – I really do fear – we are kidding ourselves if we think ‘talking’ to like-minded folk on WoS or having a pop at Ian Smart on Twitter is going to win this vote.
Some time soon we are all – the hundreds of thousands of us who support independence – going to have to switch the laptop off, stand up and go out there to challenge those who are suppressing the truth and engage with those who are yet to be convinced.
“But, while I bow to no-one in my admiration and thanks for the work wee Trojans like yourself do for the cause, Rev, I fear – I really do fear – we are kidding ourselves if we think ‘talking’ to like-minded folk on WoS or having a pop at Ian Smart on Twitter is going to win this vote.”
Of course it isn’t. Neither is a ragtag band of a few dozen people marching down the street shouting “What do we want? We’re not very clear about that! When do we want it? We’re not sure it’s actually a specific thing which can be empirically demonstrated!”
Getting out on the streets is indeed vital. From here, all I can do is supply people with ammunition. But if folk are going to make the effort to tramp the cold streets, at least let’s give them a coherent message to deliver.
I speak to ‘ordinary’ folk at work every day, Freddie. I don’t force the issue, but promote the Yes position when i can. Quite a few No’s are now Maybes, and a few Maybes are now Yes’s. We aren’t all just sitting at laptops.
Hermionie say: However, “win” is never identical to “lose”.
Unless of course the NO campaign win the referendum, in that instance we ALL lose . . .
I am sorry for those folk who made the effort today, but the reality is you would need tens of thousands in order for anyone to take notice.
It also needs to be well organised – ie take your numbers, half it and that will tell you whether or not it’s worthwhile going ahead.
I am not trying to belittle the brave people who attended today, it’s just my opinion.
There has to be a better way of addressing the issue – ask yourself why Yes Scotland or anyone of the pro indy groups are not getting involved.
Quite right Rev. mine will be coming your way very shortly.
(or at least most of it, as I’m fairly skint at the moment)
@ Rev
OK, lets not drag this too far away from what is, at the end of the day, a huge expanse of common ground.
By all means lets get the message clear (although I think any protest against the MSM has to be a pretty easy bandwagon for us to jump onto however much we may quibble with the organisers’ focus) but this sort of stuff does still matter in this day and age. I saw Glasgow’s Saturday morning shoppers stop and listen, take leaflets and ask questions.
The guy with the megaphone talked of other marches, demos at Pacific Quay and the like. I would urge whoever is organising THOSE events to get your act together; bus in the activists, get as wide a spectrum of support and endorsement from the entire independence movement as you can before you take to the streets. And certainly don’t press ahead if key campaign allies are not going to play ball.
We don’t need a re-run of the Battle of Falkirk before we have the big Bannockburn bash next year!
Is there something they are not telling us?
Better together – “In a few months we will be asked in a referendum whether we should take the risk and go-it alone or whether we should stay as a strong part of a bigger United Kingdom”
What is the UK up to, are they going to annex bits of France or some other poor unfortunate place?
We need to be told!
My wife and myself wanted to go to this .However we live in northern england AKA Dumfries.To get to Glasgow at that time?So take a compass from George Square on a radius of 100 miles,and calculate the impossibilities of getting to Glasgow for that time.We decided against leaving at 6.40 and spending an hour and half drinking coffee, or getting there in time to race down to St Enoch’s, only to come back down the this down at heel wee red sandstone sad toon.Like all the other wee sad downtrodden toons in Scotia.Just in case any doon haimer takes the pet.
Good to see a couple of Unionist Brit Nats contributing.
Their position is, to be fair, completely viable. After all, the UK is just about viable!
All this chat about costs here, or costs there is just that: chat!
The most important issue is one of self-determination!
The Union serves up a democratic deficit for Scotland. It always will. If the Unionist Brit Nats think the current arrangement is the best available, I would question their vision and ambition for their nation.
If we all took the same view as them, few people would take the calculated risks required to improve the world. Can you imagine a British Empire without the spirit of calculated risk required to oppress people all over the globe, in the pursuit of wealth and resources? Can you imagine anyone taking the calculated risk of going into business for themselves with such a dependent mind-set? Perhaps we should all just stay in bed and let our political and intellectual superiors take all the grown-up decisions for us?
No? The truth is that we won’t improve our nation while playing second-fiddle to our illustrious southern neighbour. We are living in their shadow politically and economically and I want it to stop.
So to those Unionist Brit Nats who fear everything in front of them: kindly bugger-off and let those of us who can get on with the job!