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Point and counterpoint

Posted on September 10, 2014 by

mails

We don’t think, in our entire lives, we’ve ever before seen a newspaper (or any other publication) make a front-page splash saying “WE’VE PUBLISHED SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS TOTAL RUBBISH, BUT READ IT ANYWAY!”

The problem, of course, is that Simon Heffer’s opinion isn’t an isolated one.

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    1. 10 09 14 13:01

      Point and counterpoint | FreeScotland

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    198 to “Point and counterpoint”

    1. Footsoldier says:

      Listening to the lunchtime news, I do hope Alex Salmond is not going to sound too triumphant. Team Scotland v Team Westminster will annoy some people. Calm it!

    2. Macart says:

      No, ah just can’t. Don’t make me look. 😮

    3. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      Tell you what footsoldier, we’ll berate Salmond after hes done something… not before.

      And for the record, it IS Scotland Vs Westminster.

    4. British Yes-er says:

      Ahhh, the cynicism.

      O/T but came across this LSE report on Facebook on how Scotland transitions to a new state.

      “Every transition to a new state has some uncertainty and a degree of risk. But there are no bases for extreme anxiety about an independence transition in Scotland. The Scottish government’s record in public management is a good one, its published plans for transition are relatively specific and reasonable, and the long-run viability of a Scottish state looks strong. The main current uncertainties arise from the London government’s apparent reluctance to do any planning for, or to make clear to Scottish voters, how a transition to independence would be handled at their end.”

      http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/57708/1/Transitioning-to-a-new-Scottish-state-PD-ebook.pdf

    5. gillie says:

      Hilarious. This will go viral.

      Being offered the hand of friendship whilst being slapped in the face by the other.

      Is that not abuse?

    6. heraldnomore says:

      oh, and the WGD in utterly stonking form, despite or perhaps because, of the loss of Andy

    7. Paul Murphy says:

      And the predictable narrative has begun, apparently some trouble in Rutherglen involving Yes and No camps around the visit of the original Eggman (Mr Prescott). Lets guess where the blame will fall this time….

    8. British Yes-er says:

      Oh god. Apologies. First post ever on a site like this. I scanned the rules but missed the one about not posting O/T stuff in the first few comments. Ahhh. Sorry again.

    9. wingman 2020 says:

      Got to love the Guardian change of headline on the Mark Carney Currency story.

      From:

      The headline on this article was amended on 9 September 2014. The original version wrongly stated that Mark Carney had said a currency union would be unworkable.

      To

      Scottish independence: currency union ‘incompatible with sovereignty’

      That would be an accident by the Guardian then?

    10. Grizzle McPuss says:

      When does Putin get brought in to champion unity, in his own subtle style?
      Was this what grumpy Ruthy was trying to hint at us with her fears about the Russians?

    11. msean says:

      Even if the powers were worth something,the English MPs representing English constituencies, who think the Scots get too much, would have said constituents demanding they vote the proposals down.

      Long grass syndrome would then apply. There would be nought Scotland could do about it ‘cos we had voted no. They just need that no vote in,it’s Westminsters mandate to do nothing.

    12. piggy says:

      Self humiliation.

    13. the great elbe says:

      Just liars and deceivers, that has always been the modus operandi of the english/british upper classes and their cheerleaders in the press.

    14. call me dave says:

      Darling escorted away to his car by the police in Rutherglen.

      He should have been detained and made to explain what the old, repackaged, new powers actually were and how we are expected to get them.

      It is not passing strange that our Scottish representatives are becoming more and more loathed and made to feel unwelcome in areas previously thought to be their fiefdom.

    15. bob sinclair says:

      Thread open for comments on BBC, but my posts are going straight into moderation. Meanwhile some truly nasty & ill informed comments from supporters of the union seem to be acceptable. They are really upping the Britnat Troll Ante.

      I just hope that when the ‘three amigos’ make their respective appearances that everyone remains calm and they behaves.

      At the moment we have WM seriously panicking and we should sit back and let them place their own size nines in their own mouths. They are doing more damage to their own campaign than we could possibly have hoped for.

    16. Macart says:

      They really are pulling out all the stops today. Fearbombing, lurve-ins, broadcast and press coverage, but its all scattershot and wild.

      You’d think things were going a bit poorly for them. 🙂

    17. Capella says:

      I thought incitement to racial hatred was a crime in the UK? Is Simon Heffer exempt for some reason?

    18. Breastplate says:

      I wonder why they didn’t show this on Sky or BBC last night when they were reviewing the papers.
      They must have forgotten the English version.

    19. Chris Baxter says:

      But I suspect that this supine response to Salmond’s lies will be the final straw for most English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters.
      The final straw in what sense? To compel those voters to do what, exactly?

    20. the great elbe says:

      Re Brit nats foaming at the mouth, the trolls at GCHQ will be in overdrive.

    21. YESGUY says:

      Bookie

      I managed to watch the whole clip with out throwing up. It was tough , especially the bit about joining both Scotland and England to beat Germany. Ha if we had a better referee Scotland would have won on it’s own.#

      Would you support a GB footy team folks ??

      NO CHANCE.

      the Tartan Army singing for England ?? because we all know a GB team would be an England team .

      Ah well back to finding DK’s with my WBB

    22. wee_monsieur says:

      I liked a comment I saw on Twitter by @MrFurby –

      Imagine a country where our national leaders don’t make ’emergency’ visits to Scotland, one where they’re here all the time #VoteYes

    23. yabadabadoo says:

      To the Rev Stuart Campbell,

      Scotland has a great history of folk rising up within the nation to lead by example. It takes courage when most don’t poses it. It also requires creativity, energy and talent. All you possess.

      I am not saying you are a William Wallace but your example is certainly in that spirit. Your example has encouraged a magnitude of effort across many mediums by many people.

      WOS frightens the Westminster elite but it also frightens those that want to establish an Edinburgh elite based on the same model: WOS platform for freedom-of-speech by the people of Scotland cannot be lost.

      I hope that WOS will use the 19th September to push home the change that Scots want.

    24. Adrian Kent says:

      If you know that the family is dysfunctional and that Daddy won’t listen, cos he’s too busy squandering the housekeeping money trying to impress a trollop from Knightsbridge, then sometimes the only option is to tear the family apart.

      I write this from Brighton in the certain knowledge that the vast majority of my friends want you to vote YES for all the reasons George Monbiot states.

      Good luck and congratulations on the excellent work.

      Adrian, Hove.

    25. call me dave says:

      A bit of fun. Just heard a new twist on an old chestnut.

      Q: What do the Scotland & a 13A plug have in common?

      Ans: Wont be any good in the EU.

      It’s the way they tell em!

      Where’s the Scottish labour party today?

    26. Murray McCallum says:

      I like you.
      I hate you.
      I hate that I like you.
      I like to hate you.

      I think our “UK family” relationship from the Daily Mail point of view is pretty clear.

    27. Nigerian Pirate says:

      just heard Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 allowing (I’m sure it was Heffer) someone from the Daily Mail spout an unbelievable amount of rubbish on the Independence campaign. It went totally unchallenged.

      It really boiled my pish.

      However should have expected it from the BBC anyway although I normally quite like the Vine show.

    28. Nigel says:

      We would be delighted to…

      (shove off that is).

      http://nairnyes.wordpress.com/

    29. jacksloan2013 says:

      Don’t you love farce?
      My fault, I fear.
      I thought that you’d want what I want –
      Sorry, my dear.
      But where are the clowns?
      Quick, send in the clowns.
      Don’t bother, they’re here.

    30. Greannach says:

      O/T, sorry.

      Just been listening to Simon Pia and Pat Kane on RTE Radio 1’s chat show with Sean O’Rourke. Not much new for someone acquainted with the argument, but the main point to be gleaned from self-styled left wing Labour Mr Pia was his boast that Scotland is not more egalitarian or left leaning than England, and that 25% of children in his own city of Edinburgh attend private schools. He actually sounded proud about that.

    31. mjaei says:

      ‘We don’t think, in our entire lives, we’ve ever before seen a newspaper (or any other publication) make a front-page splash saying “WE’VE PUBLISHED SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS TOTAL RUBBISH, BUT READ IT ANYWAY!”‘

      That’s not true, Rev, I definitely remember you covering Labour’s Devo-nano document…

    32. call me dave says:

      Never knew AS was the leader of the YES campaign but I was told he was by sky news. Can they get anything right?

      Davy could have saved the fare and just sent an old tape up to stick in the cassette.

    33. kendomacaroonbar says:

      This abuse it getting wearisome, and printed with regular monotony.

      If we dare complain about some English press’s inability to differentiate between argument and abuse, (and who will if not joe public ) we are roundly sneered at for being ‘chippy Scots and accused of being anti English.

      I’m sick of this.

    34. bob sinclair says:

      The new survation poll sounds like it may be interesting given the buzz on twitter. Roll on 10:30pm

    35. Stevie boy says:

      Dear fellow Wingers..

      I live in Cumbernauld (Eastfield area) and just found out this morning that Ed Miliband will be in a community centre right next to me. Apparently it’s invite only but I’m going to the local pub which is right next door to it to see what’s going on.. any luck I might even get interviewed!!

      Will update on here later!!

    36. Clootie says:

      You only had to watch PMQ today to know that there is absolutely NO CHANCE of additional powers going through Westminster.

      Even though English Tory MP’s had been told to cool it you could see the clear indicators that nothing, NOTHING will be granted.

    37. Quentin Quale says:

      Alistair Darling in melt-down earlier on RScotland phone-in, John Prescott waves a Daily Mail, tears the Tories to pieces and suggests Scotland & England join forces on the fitba front (to beat Germany) and Cameron sits in a Standard Life office to a selected audience. Clegg in Borders and Miliband to speak in, surprise, Glasgow. That’s the concerted campaign? What could possibly go wrong.

    38. Oneironaut says:

      Thank you Simon.
      We will indeed be quite happy to shove off as soon as possible.

      Please let us know when you can come up here to collect those rusty old glow-in-the-dark submarines you left lying around. They’re killing our fish, and I keep tripping over the damn things all the time.

      Also we’d appreciate it if you’d try and keep the noise down next door. All that hate-filled baying from your brainwashed friends does keep us awake at nights. And we have a lot of work to do, building a new future and all.

      Have a nice day 🙂

      (I’m really tempted to send that to him now!) 😉

    39. Luigi says:

      I like you.
      I hate you.
      I hate that I like you.
      I like to hate you.

      Sounds like my wife.

    40. Helena Brown says:

      Again they forget the internet, say one thing at the other end and another to us. Are they thick?

    41. Midgehunter says:

      Does anyone expect the Mail to be anything other than devious, two-faced and content to lie in your face?

      This weekend is the last one before the vote. The Sunday Herald is the only newspaper that was prepared to come out early enough and say YES, fair praise I’d say.

      Does anyone (Marcia??) know if the SH will prepare a really hot referendum edition to galvanise the readers. Front page headline – VOTE YES – and half a dozen front pages laying out the reasons to vote YES and exposing the latest lies and fiction from the BT-KOKS.

      This is the last chance in this ref. and could set them up as a credible paper for a future Scotland.

    42. cearc says:

      Stevie Boy,

      ‘Apparently it’s invite only’

      Well what a surprise!

    43. Marie clark says:

      Hi to all wingers. First time poster, long time lurker.

      Is it just me, but I feel a strange calm amidst all the merde being thrown at us just now.Nobody is really listening to what the three stooges or Big Goggie has to say. Let them prattle.

      I know that we are going to win this. Like Lesley Anne I live dan sarf (opposite side of region). I was in the local shop this morning and the wee lass serving fair cheered me up. WBB on counter (man delivered bread and said WBB) all her friends who never vote, not interested in politics, are all registered and eager for next week, all voting yes. WBB on way to the wee lassies mum who is a no. Fair made my day the sheer joy, hope and enthusiasm from the young.

      Courage mon braves, we will do this.

    44. galamcennalath says:

      It’s a recurring theme, one story for Scotland, the opposite story for England.

      The more people who become aware of the English edition, the better!

    45. BrianW says:

      It’s getting boring now all this split news reporting north and south of the border. Hope fully with Ed’s fully manned Border Control we can stop news like this slipping through the net. They can say what they like. We’ll be too busy swimming in Oil to care.. Wheeeeeeee

      Do they do it on purpose? Maybe they think we’re stupid enough not to find out they run two stories to placate either readership. Maybe they’re just numptys blowing hot air..

    46. Luigi says:

      cearc says:

      10 September, 2014 at 1:13 pm

      Stevie Boy,

      ‘Apparently it’s invite only’

      Well what a surprise!

      Bunch of cowards. At least Jim Murphy went out into the streets and faced the mob (crowd of grannies), even if he did run away greetin when someone egged him.

    47. desimond says:

      So basically, 3 leaders of unliked parties come up to Scotland and wait for it, no-one gives a flying eck bar the Media.

      What a surprise.

      Farage up on Friday will surely try and start a fight to grab headlines, if one hasnt already been co-ordinated.

      is it “Put the battle fears into them” tactic now onboard and well done the young guy on BBC3 yoof show (really Ruthie?) last night who condemned all fighting talk of “England fighting Scots and No fighting Yes” as pure BT scaremongering.

    48. call me dave says:

      Blair Jenkins is on a roll today. Well done!
      sky news.
      Harder answers to some very nasty questions especially on the banks sky is just as bad as the BBC.

      I see Glegg and Carmichael have arrived at Selkirk.

    49. Dr Jim says:

      The newspapers will print anything for effect in order to CREATE news, where prevously, years ago they reported the news, and unfortunately TV does exactly the same now
      It’s always been easy to inject racsism into an event because it makes good reading, and there’s nothing the English love better,because they are used to it,i mean, for God’s sake they’re still talking constantly about beating the Germans.
      As some of you know i am half english, on my mothers side,so i can speak on the subject.
      English people in general,not all,but a very large amount are the most racist people i know and i have lived and travelled in several countries around the world most of my life.
      This is not to say they are bad people,they just don’t know they’re doing it.
      ;God save the queen; ;We defeated Hitler; ;We invaded whoever;I think you see my point ,the glorification of the wrong kind of history.

    50. desimond says:

      @Stevie Boy

      When you see Mags Curran or Jola carrying Eds jacket, just shout ‘SHAME’ for me please

    51. Kev says:

      O/T but did Cameron actually say “Dont vote Yes just to give the effing Tories a kicking”? Our country’s a bunch of swearers now is it?? And 2 jags in Rutherglen nearly inciting a riot by suggesting Scotland and England fitba teams should join to defeat Germany? I knew this stunt would be a train-wreck but this is something else!!

    52. heedtracker says:

      Is there a gutter deep enough for Daily Heil deeply creepy reprobates? Right everyone
      let’s go after the Cybernats, photograph in worst possible way, monster them in public like they’re common criminals and that’s them silenced for good.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545901/Cybernats-unmasked-Meet-footsoldiers-pro-Scottish-independence-army-online-poison-shames-Nationalists.html

      Never forget, never forgive.

    53. todayinscotland says:

      New post

      I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots And Your Motorcycle | todayinscotland
      https://todayinscotland.wordpress.com/i-need-your-clothes-your-boots-and-your-motorcycle/

    54. goulashman says:

      The NO campaign at least is showing very clearly the ugly corporate/pluto-ideology that supports it. Every ugliness will be thrown from this quarter through the shamefully captive BBC and the MSM. CALM RESOLVED COURAGE must be maintained by YES. Every hint of ‘rowdiness’ will be exaggerated and blamed on Yes (but as in past form emanating from NO). The UKIP and Orange thuggery needs especially to be met with calm. BP, Carney, ….. BTW the Tory part is well represented on the BP Board, Standard Life ….

    55. desimond says:

      Just thinking how its a shame we didnt have the Rev heading up to Scotland today. He would have got more Scots excited than Huey Duey and Luey thats for sure.

      Miliband: ‘Is that their Messiah?’
      Clegg: ‘No he’s not the Messiah’
      Cameron: ‘Hes a very naughty boy!’

    56. Thepnr says:

      We expected nastiness, now that it has arrived on our doorstep is anyone really surprised?

      Don’t let any of this rubbish get to you, it is their last throw of the dice

    57. desimond says:

      @todayinscotland

      I would advise Self promotion is best confined to Off-Topic forum if youre going to start posting same links on every new thread.

      Best to avoid the wrath of Stu and all that.

    58. goulashman says:

      The Daily Heil is reminiscent of the Nazi approach to ‘journalism’ in the late Weimar Republic.

    59. Luigi says:

      So, let me get this right, the three stooge leaders are safely wrapped up in cotton wool at secure venues (announced at very short notice), surrounded by invited audiences and with cream puff reporters, whilst the British bulldogs (Prescott etc) are let loose out in the streets, to give the impression that they are here to speak to the people, right?

      Even Bulldog Prescott was closely surrounded by a crowd of NO activists, very tightly, in order to keep out unwanted YES folk appearing within camera shot.

      The three stooges may well manage to run bag to London, relatively unscathed and with clean suits, but their reputations are shot to hell.

    60. desimond says:

      @heedtracker

      Good reminder and strange how the Mail headline ties in with the name of first poster on this thread.

      Coincidence?

    61. Nigel says:

      It is panic indeed and invite-only events won’t help, only create more of a feel of the elite telling the wayward natives to behave.

      Well, we ARE revolting! 😀 In the best way possible. Door steps, canvassing, leafleting, street stalls etc – gawd, my shoes are wearing out!

    62. Kev says:

      Oh, expect the 3 amigos and co show implosion to be sidelined tonight on the news as BP boss and now Shell boss both agree that Ian Wood’s gloomy assessment of North sea oil is correct. C’mon Alex, time to say WE DON’T NEED OIL, WITHOUT IT WE ARE JUST AS WEALTHY AS THE UK AVERAGE.

    63. Andy Howie says:

      Survation poll tonight “David Clegg of The Daily Record @davieclegg will be tweeting headline results at 10.30pm and we will press release the full tables to you promptly at 10.30pm and tweet further details from our twittter account @survation.”

      Any thoughts on what it will say?

    64. Kevin Evans says:

      And never forget if it’s a “no” vote the English papers will begin the campaign “scots get too much, it’s time to toughen up”

    65. Alex Munro says:

      I do hope that with the 3 stooges in scotland that yes scotland attack them on
      welfare cuts and the affront of food banks in the towns and cities of our oil rich country

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr ( last throw of the Dice ) so you.ve never seen a dice with a Magic Been drilled inside, just keeps on rollin lol.

    67. desimond says:

      @Kev

      BP and Shell support – I bet they wont be at the back of the queue for any future licenses for other offshore oil areas or inland fracking in any UK future.

      BP..always thinking of others:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-29060521

    68. liz says:

      O/T The prize is so close that I am as usual really nervous.

      From James Kelly -A new Survation poll is due to be released at 10.30 this evening, although there’s always a chance the embargo will be broken earlier. The firm’s chief has tweeted that the results are “quite something”. That could mean something good or bad for us.

      I know we have to wait but if it is bad for us – remember we don’t really trust some of these polls – it could take the wind right out of our sails.

      I know folk will think – doomsayer – but I’m just saying, be prepared. Keep calm and carry on canvassing.

    69. Jan Hendry says:

      To answer midgehunter’s question about the Sunday Herald. They have asked readers to send in selfies of themselves showing support for the yes campaign. The plan is to use the pics as a double spread front page.

    70. desimond says:

      @liz

      Think of last week, we were striding forward, then we got a wee boost by 2 latest polls. Any new poll showing a bonus for No mae help rekindle their dampened spirits but it wont actually dampen any of ours or take any wind out our sails. We will still be moving forward.

      Yes only goes in one direction.

    71. desimond says:

      In response to this rapidly declining Oil reserves( copyright BP, Shell, mr Wood), why dont we offer to swap the proposed “tax powers” for control over the Oil.

      Take your time Westminster, we’re here all week.

    72. ronnie anderson says:

      Awe Diddy Daves gonna be heart broken if Scotland leaves the Onion, her’s ah wee ditty tae cheer him up Dont Break ma Heart My Itybity Heart.

      Sos Rev a Shameless plug.

      Bills Tool Store in the Barra,s,selling Sledgehammers at half price.

    73. big jock says:

      Liz the pollster also says it follows current trends.Which means yes is up even by just 2%.That would be 49% yes.So if its quite something then what else can it mean other than yes moving up.49% is fine as that pollster is never that good for yes anyway.

    74. heedtracker says:

      @ desimond, no it’s probably no coincidence. Anyway Kevin Macguire was on the Mirror last week reporting nationalists giving out beatings to No voters down dark alleyways, so no matter how peacefull our referendum’s been, there some really nasty characters in teamGB media and they know no depths. Surprised at Macguire stooping that low but they’ve all worked so hard at trying to shut down Scottish democracy, it must be driving them nuts.

    75. Paul says:

      It does say “Which the mail disagrees with” not quite enough not to print it but they do disagree which makes it all better, would be a little fairer if they shared it in the Scottish version for a bit of equality but that might be expecting a bit too much !!

    76. Another Union Dividend says:

      After reading this online I went along to the Newington YES shop and they are really busy.

      http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/yes-campaign-shop-covered-in-nazi-vandalism-1-3536766

      People power will win on 18th September and as well as a positive vote for self determination, let’s send the Westminster elite a message of no confidence.

    77. seanair says:

      Grenach
      Simon Pia attended Scotus Academy, a private RC school for boys. (No longer in existence).
      Just saying like.

    78. Thepnr says:

      @liz

      I agree with Desimond, no matter what the polls say we refuse to hear their message and just keep on going. The end is nigh and they will throw every trick in the book at us to try and hold on to their “entitlements”.

      As someone, one of them I think once said.

      “This is the lesson: never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

    79. heedtracker says:

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kevin-maguire-take-labour-love-4180511 here’s that Macguire vote no thing. What a disgusting way to go about your day but this is how edifices fall, not with goodwill or honesty but snearing malice fired off 500 miles away by a ligger who thinks he knows what’s best for England.

      “The nasty civil war tearing Scotland apart isn’t pretty, as I discovered in Glasgow. Fanatical Nationalism leads down a dangerous dark alley where threats of violence and occasional beatings are poisoning the debate.”

    80. BuckieBraes says:

      I’m sure I’m not alone in noticing how Gordon Brown’s much-vaunted latest ‘more powers’ contribution appears to have fallen flat already. Still, before the next week is out I’m sure he’ll be back up again, like a Weeble, to give the tired old dross one final airing.

      Meanwhile we have the ‘Amigos’ up here to show us how a No vote will ensure the preservation of the Westminster system of government and the opportunity to keep voting for people like them – three parties of the right. I’m sorry, but I can’t quite see what the ‘USP’ is in all this.

      Surely Scotland is now waking up to the realisation that we cannot allow power over our country to remain in these people’s hands.

    81. Cag-does-thinking says:

      I did comment earlier on that Cameron would have a nice lunch somewhere corporate with an invited crowd of Tories probably in Edinburgh, Ed would appear in some social club (or Glasgow City Chambers, same kinda thing) having man food and talking to a paid for audience of Scottish councillors, while Nick would be in Starbucks talking to journalists while paying for their coffee. Poor Nick has no friends anymore except Danny who is shadowing him for future job share. Who knew John Prescott would stand in for Jim Murphy? Shame about the riot John, maybe you need a Sottish scriptwriter, it’s a tough crowd.

      Surprise surprise just as Dave is in the Standard Life building they announce that they’ll move all the nameplates to London in the event of Scottish independence especially as it’s just going to be local for the House of Lords. Need that light touch regulation dontcha know and a compliant management who are prominent Tories need their chums. I expect there’ll be a lot of this in the next few days. This alternating hug and “you’re getting nothing” hasn’t worked for them so far, so I’m really glad they are keeping it up till polling day.

    82. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well I’m just over the moon that Two Jags has deigned to give us poor we paupers a wee visit. Now I really do have a reason to vote YES next week. Not that I did not already have one or two or three or … 😛

      I always did think Prescott was a sandwich short of a picnic but even for him that jibe about joining the Scottish and English football teams together to beat Germany was utterly incredible.

      I love how Milliband is only daring to speak to a, no doubt, pre vetted audience as will Cameron and the other one. Whatever happened to Cameron’s idea that they were not coming to Scotland to TELL us we should all vote NO but they were coming here to LISTEN!

      Why is Cameron not coming Dan Suff?

      I mean he *ahem* claims he is coming to Scotland to *cough* listen to the people of Scotland, or at least that’s the LIE he told everyone yesterday. Well I’m a Scot living in Scotland would you believe so why is he not coming to see ME and hear what I have to say?

      What’s wrong Mr. Cameron don’t MY views count?

    83. Papadox says:

      Sky news financial correspondent (some women) just gave us the regurgitated crap From Bob Dudley BP chief exe about BPs investment in the diminishing resources in the North Sea. Mr Dudley made the same. Lies a few months ago just before BP disowned his shit and announced £billions of investment in Claire ridge.

      IF BP ARE NOT A BUNCH OF LIARS THEN THEY CAN F OFF AND LET SOME OTHER OIL COMPANY HAVE THEIR WORTHLESS INVESTMENTS. SURE WE,LL BE SPOILT FOR CHOICE.

    84. heedtracker says:

      MacGuire says only Labour can save them now so here we go

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/10/scottish-independence-john-prescott-england-scotland-football_n_5795964.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

      “Lord Prescott, who was born in Wales, said he had been told that one of the Better Together No campaign buses belonged to the Scottish football team.

      “Here’s a revolutionary thought for you, perhaps if England and Scotland together had one team we could at last beat the Germans,” he said.”

      Labour’s not out of touch or even finished at all, no ofcourse not Lord Prescott, world renowned hero of the working classes.

    85. RMAC says:

      Having just watched another biased new report on Sky News I have to say that I am not impressed with their sense of fair play and lack of bias. Its a pity the press didn’t show the kind of tenacity and determination when they were interviewing politicians from all the parties. Apparently wanting to do the best that you can to obtain self determination for the Scottish people requires a sharper tone and style of questioning than dereliction of duty and serious moral failure evident amongst the No politicians.

    86. Papadox says:

      ALL TV CHANNELS MSM NOW IN FULL PROPAGANDA ANTI SCOTTISH MODE.

    87. muttley79 says:

      @Rev Stu

      I know you don’t read the comments much these days because of the time, but is the rumour you were tweeting about today good or bad for Yes? Also, are you coming up to Scotland next week for the vote/result/aftermath?

    88. desimond says:

      @heedtracker

      Theres no coincidence that they have to give away the Mirror free in Stansted Airport these days. I fly down on a Monday and after a few weeks picking up a copy and seeing consecutive sad Kevs anti Yes-Scots rants, I just walk straight past the stand now.

    89. heedtracker says:

      This very not Britsh industrial nightmare should have closed down BP, on compensation costs alone but BP have survived it all because of their core business, Scottish oil.

      One of the biggest frauds in modern history is currently being perpetrated on the people of Scotland.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-04/bp-found-grossly-negligent-in-2010-gulf-of-mexico-spill.html

    90. Robert Louis says:

      Please, folks, don’t hang on to each and every poll – you will set yourself up for failure. Opinion polls go up and down. The only poll that matters is on the 18th. We need to win. 🙂

    91. bookie from hell says:

      Ed mentions NATZI in first 3 mins

    92. Breastplate says:

      Ed Miliband talking now about Thatcher and the 80’s not realising New Labour are more right wing than Thatcher’s Tories.

    93. Les Wilson says:

      Ed just saying the usual crap, nothing I have not heard before.
      No mention of border posts, oh, that was 2 days ago.
      Disappeared as fast as his “deal for us” will do after the 19th.

      Who in their right mind would trust Labour?
      Note all these guys are speaking to selective audiences just for TV.

    94. iain taylor (not that one) says:

      Was eating my sandwich lunch by the beach at Burntisland today. Two respectable middle aged ladies walked past.
      Says one to her pal “what’s that other ar*ehole’s name again?”
      Pal replies – “Clegg”.

    95. gillie says:

      If the reserves and revenues from North Sea oil and gas are so insignificant as we are being told then why not hand them all over to the Scottish parliament.

      Surely a Scottish parliament would put these dwindling resources to better use.

      What has the UK treasury, Sir Ian Wood, BP and Shell to fear from such a proposal?

      It is after still Scotland’s oil.

    96. Colin Church says:

      @IcySpark
      Can Prescott stay. The funniest thing is Anus Sarwar at side of shot. His face – “WTF have we done”. Classic. And the joint footie team gets a cheer – as Butch Cassidy said “who are these guys?”

    97. Onwards says:

      A little nugget from the rabid comment section:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29136699

      “Why take the crumbs from the hands at Westminster when you can have the whole cake?”

    98. Papadox says:

      West minster propaganda makes Hitler and Goebbels look like armatures when it comes to lies and deceit.

    99. desimond says:

      BBC News 24

      Miliband : “Staying together will deliver Equality”

      That “Why arent we Better together now” question suddenly springs to mind.

    100. gillie says:

      So the unionist rota for the day is.

      1. Morning duty – David Cameron

      2. Afternoon duty – Ed Miliband

      3. Evening duty – Nick Clegg

      …. and they will all be tucked up in their beds tonight in London with a nice cup of Hot Chocolate. Ah, that is nice.

    101. desimond says:

      @gillie

      You would think new Poll results were due out or something!

    102. Neilly Kilted Scot says:

      It is the usual for governments of all persuasion to say one thing to one group and the opposite to another.
      We should perhaps be grateful for the fact it’s not Blair/Brown that are still in charge because if we get the ‘Yes’ vote they’d say we had WMD and declare war!!

    103. Colin Church says:

      @Gillie
      Yep, we have been had. These seperate stage “events” convenienently co-ordinated and timed give wall to wall free PPB for each No party. Will get my headzip. Closed sessions with invited top table party operatives, perfect lighting, great sound. What a F*ing con. Electoral Commission will be down on this like a ton of bricks, any minute now, just you wait, yes sir, anytime now. Anybody?

    104. Roboscot says:

      Anyone else feel our referendum has been hijacked?

    105. Nana Smith says:

      There’s a rumour that folk in Greenock signing on are being told vote YES and benefits will be stopped.

    106. Davy says:

      What a laugh, I have been listening to the radio or watching the TV all morning, and they are creaming themselves about Scotland gaining its independence.

      Watching Alistair Darling getting a reaming on STV last night and then hearing him this morning stutter and stammer trying desperately not to make a bolloxs on radio Scotland was unreal.

      And a welldone to Stewart Hosie as he answered Andrew Neil’s questions on the politics show with authority and expertise and then we watched the same Andrew Neil just make an earse of the labour and tory panelists when they tried to answer their questions with ignorance and lies.

      Prescott was another of those better together gifts they keep on sending up here, a pure Westminster politician with no real idea of what he is supposed to be talking about. Commonly known as a wanker.

      I can’t wait for the rest of the day.

    107. Lesley-Anne says:

      Nice to see that SKY News market person going with OLD news story to spread the word of FEAR about independence. I wonder what they would say about this NEW story toady. 😉

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/9721-new-study-suggests-scotland-set-for-new-north-sea-oil-bonanza

    108. Colin Church says:

      They could have just done this by video conference from WM with a tartan shortbread picture as a background. Would have saved the carbon footprint.

    109. Sinky says:

      Will our unbiased Britannia waives the Rules press / broadcasters report this positive oil story?

      More on oil

      A leading oil economist has predicted a potential North Sea bonus of 99 new discoveries in the next 30 years.
      Alex Kemp, from the University of Aberdeen, has used detailed financial modelling to set out “commercially viable” projects for the industry following the Wood Review.
      The sector has been one of the key battlegrounds in the independence debate, with varying projections on just how many recoverable barrels remain.

      In the new academic paper, Prof Kemp argues the 99 finds could be made by 2045, and also outlines an additional 58 which he says will be “uneconomic” by 2050 but could become viable as a result of technological improvements.
      He further points out 147 already discovered fields which are not yet at the detailed planning stage and 25 fields currently “being assessed” for development.

      Prof Kemp, who factored in expected government tax relief for new exploration, said oil prices are likely to be “much higher” by 2050.
      http://www.energyvoice.com/2014/09/expert-alex-kemp-predicts-north-sea-oil-bonanza/

    110. Thepnr says:

      Loved that weather report right now on Sky News.

      “Scotland looks like having the best of the sunshine” 🙂

    111. Nana Smith says:

      Oh dear, did Dave not invite Willie on todays jaunt. HAHA one message for the Scots and another for the down south.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/hague-giving-scotland-more-powers-if-it-votes-no-is-not-government-policy.1410350878

    112. David Stevenson says:

      BBC commentary on Prescott and Darling’s trip to Rutherglen over-egged (to use a Murphyism) according to my wife who was there. Any “heaviness” came from Team Naw who were outnumbered but not outweighed by the Yes group. Sky “journalist” warning Prescott that the Yes campaigners were “pretty robust” as he got off the bus seemed to be trying to wind something up.

      The weak Cheering for Prescott’s quote about a UK fitba team most likely from OO or the dafter side of the Rangers support in this neck of the woods. Most would just be embarrassed or cringing. Prescott footage exemplifies the desperation of the Labour side of the No campaign. Devoid of purpose or content.

    113. Onwards says:

      @Robert Louis says:

      Please, folks, don’t hang on to each and every poll – you will set yourself up for failure. Opinion polls go up and down. The only poll that matters is on the 18th. We need to win

      Exactly – we can expect a few bad polls as well – Have no doubt that the unionists will be running 10 or 20 polls this week, just to cherry pick the worst ones.

      Plus we have the blanket media frenzy for the NO campaign.

      It’s not going to be easy against a biased media, but we have to keep pushing, and get the vote up on the day.

      People WANT to vote because of hope, not fear.

    114. Les Wilson says:

      The 3 amigos are all talking absolute condescending guff.
      Somewhere between a love bomb and subtle threats.

      When they are gone and their chosen audiences are back in their home. We will see what the real results of all this are.
      Most Scots will shake their heads at the thought we could be so stupid as to be taken in, again, by lies and deceit. It will not happen, things have gone too far.

    115. muttley79 says:

      The expression on Anas Sarwar’s face was hilarious when Prescott said there should be a British national football team! 😀 😀 He looked like he wanted to run away!

    116. Free Scotland says:

      And the same rag (check the online version) declares:

      Prime Minister David Cameron has said he will do whatever it takes to keep Scotland part of the UK.

      Does that mean he will now debate live on TV with Alex Salmond?

    117. Quentin Quale says:

      the saddest part of today’s manufactured ‘we really care’ approach is that they actually believe it will help the No side. The funniest part of today – so far – has to be John Prescott’s plea for the fitba teams to join together.

    118. Onwards says:

      O/T
      Does anyone know if all the official YES groups have raised anything near their campaign limits ?

      Is there still crowd-funding going on ?

    119. David Anderson says:

      Moribund is the best way to describe this Union. The fake flying of flags. The visit of those who never normally focus their attention on Scottish affairs unless it adversely affects their interests elsewhere on these islands. The proclamations of financial doom from the supporters of those desperados trying to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. Some of these proclamations coming from the very financial institutions that proclaimed the same baseless scaremongering in the last referendum. Wave after wave of brain-numbing bias from a complicit media that has actually had the effect of numbing the fear in many voters to a degree that the opposite of the intended impact is happening and more people are turning to YES. A plethora of arrogant opinion from comic book commentators in the redtops and ‘experts’ of all persuasions doing what they do. Basically the sky won’t fall in and the world won’t end. YES or NO they country will continue in much the same fashion. The thing is with a YES there is hope to fashion it ourselves as opposed to allowing these failures to argue amongst themselves as to what powers we should get and what interpretation they meant when offering them. If voters can understand and accept that there is no real need for fear and that common sense will prevail in most matters then moribund is the best way to describe the Union. I hope that it is time for it to ‘pass away’, though I wish it would stop kicking and squealing as it goes.

    120. Ken500 says:

      BP us one of the worst run companies in corporate history. BP cutting corners led to one of the most economic, environment disaster. BP management is one of the worst in corporate history, causing death and destruction, wiping £Billions off their share value. Bo Dudley was nearly put in jail in Russia. A complete criminal.

      The few companies coming out for NO are badly run and carrying massive UK debt. In trouble in or out of the Union.

    121. goulashman says:

      Allegedly negative polls will be a potent weapon left to NO. Campaigners must be quick to counter this with info on how polls can be weighted and designed to give a required outcome – unless of course the sample reveals a result against the expectations or intent of the pollster

    122. Alex Smith says:

      @Iain Taylor(not that one)

      Belter! Nearly fell off me chair!

    123. David Stevenson says:

      Anas will say it was just a wee joke from Prescott. But even if it was, the real question is “where is the substance”? Prescott said zero that would be of value to the No campaign at all. They are running on empty.

    124. desimond says:

      @David Stevenson

      Rutherglen folk cheering for UK football team.
      The Twenty Club probably wasnt open yet down by the Quarry Bar.

    125. Ken500 says:

      Hague buried the Report about the abuse of children by Westminster MP’s. Pouncing about with Joli about stopping abuse. A complete lying hypocrite.

    126. Thepnr says:

      @David Anderson 2:44pm

      Sums it up nicely. Ta.

    127. Ken500 says:

      Obama and Cameron funded and supplies ISIS for the last two years but will not pay a ransom. Murderers. Now Cameron have given the Kurds £1.5Million. Westminster are sanctioning benefits in Britain and people are dying. Murderers.

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      Invite-only events to spread doom and pessimism and still no positive case for the Union. I think I was correct, when I suggested No Better Together are a nihilists, occult terrorist sect. 🙂

      P.S. I posted a couple of links earlier, that seam to have disappeared. I hope the info wasn’t duff (I didn’t check all the links). Alternatively, sorry if it was a spoiler Rev. 🙂

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      The links also seem, or even appear to have disappeared. 🙂

    130. David Stevenson says:

      Desimond: I bow to your knowledge of local watering holes. I know what one to avoid if caught thirsty in Rutherglen! Thanks for the tip…

    131. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh the *ahem* bravery of the THREE Stooges. 😛

      I’ve seen this on Twitter. 😉

      “@NicolaSturgeon: Asked by @ScotlandTonight to debate live with @Ed_Miliband tonight. I said yes. Seems he’s said no. #indyref” he’s scared

    132. wookie says:

      Why is there not a picture of the front page rather than a caption..

    133. Macart says:

      Three party leaders for the first time in the UKs political history getting a nosebleed by travelling so far out of their comfort zone. They trundle up here to supposedly work ‘better together’ and sing a song of unity and yet bizarrely they:

      a. Aren’t going to be seen together.
      b. Aren’t being seen to talk with the natives, but rather talk at them.
      c. Can’t agree on a joint approach to their devo proposals, even for the press.
      d. Can’t appear to see any problem or contradiction of stance in this Westminster intervention where of course the pledge was that this was a discussion for Scots alone.

      I mean, surely even they must see the the message this is sending out?

      Is it just me or does this appear to be one glorious clusterfuck idea, choreographed by the Benny Hill school of political campaigning?

    134. GrahamB says:

      I can’t see the Three Amigos attracting support back to NO and I don’t think that can be their intent. All they can do is consolidate their existing support and prevent it from crumbling further, hence them only preaching to their own voters in invited audiences.

    135. Stoops says:

      I think it’s all about monopolising airtime.

    136. Marie clark says:

      @David Anderson 2.43

      Well said that man, fully agree.

      Just been out for a while and on the car radio they said that David Cameron was in Scotland today to campaign to keep the union.Campaign! has somebody changed the meaning of the word. How does hiding away with your own kind and pontificating count as a campaign. Feartie.

      I think that we are all heartily sick of all the crap from the MSM and the TV their impartiality wid gie ye the boak.

      I think lads and lassies it’s time to form the schiltrom and keep pushing forward. I’ve got a nice bottle of malt in the cupboard just waiting for the 19th.

    137. Stuart Black says:

      I’m surprised that someone with that level of irrational hatred is given such a platform to disseminate his bile. Wait, the Mail, you say? Ah, scratch that.

      On a more serious note, I do hope he doesn’t end up a stroke victim with all his choleric apoplexy. I can almost hear the blood vessels breaking from here…

    138. theycan'tbeserious says:

      Then they fight you…and then you win!;-)

    139. chalks says:

      Today is Scaremania.

      Topped off by planet earth saying they would cast an independent Scotland into outer space.

    140. Wayne says:

      I mean the image is funny, but it would be only fair to point out that it is not front page v front page. Having said that Heffer’s rant was just his usual nasty anti-Scottish self.

    141. Tom Garrett says:

      Don t watch / listen to / read MSM any more, anything effective happening on BT side today? No, thought not. Granddaughter wants to watch Peppa Pig and the case for Scottish Independance. Sounds much more informative!

    142. bjsalba says:

      A selection of threes
      3 Amigos
      3 Bears
      3 Blind Mice
      3 Is A Crowd
      3 Legged Race
      3 Musketeers,
      3 Ring Circus
      3 Stooges
      3 Strikes & You’re Out
      Take your pick

    143. call me dave says:

      @Colin Church

      Yes I saw that too. “OMG” moment.

      Mr Prescott lacks common sense and was off script within a sentence or two. 🙂

    144. Brian McGraw says:

      Noticed they trotted out China on BBC at lunchtime appalled at why UK is even allowing the Ref and how Scot Indy will damage UK standing in World. They prefer UK. Only matter of Time before they use the Russians too- threat of nuclear holocaust etc.
      Suppose we were bound to go through this- keep focused on 18th keep talking to folk on positives

    145. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The real headline and not he photoshopped on.”

      Nothing’s been Photoshopped, doofus:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/shoveoff.jpg

    146. HOLD … HOLD …HOLD!

    147. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m holding already! 😛

    148. desimond says:

      In fact
      Bravo @Footsoldier!
      I just noticed your pal on Moneyweek recommends ‘a fine blog on the referendum’…its author:

      Prof. Adam Tompkins.

      Tell wee Duggie, Wings said hello

    149. EdinScot says:

      The three faces of British nationalism comes to Scotland to talk down to us again from stage managed security ringed closed to the public events. Hell, even their locations are kept secret with the help of the media until the last possible second. What is it with these three so called leaders from Westminster that theyre so terrified to meet the real Scottish public. They just dont want to hear our side of the story at all and blow their argument to smithereens in the process.

      Just think, weve still got Ukips Farage and the OO coming to town before the week ends. The Brit nats really know how to spoil us..NOT.

      Im sensing its the Unions final throw of the dice when Darling is police escorted into his car in Glasgow! Prescott is off his trolley. The bt campaign is a shambles but the subway moments are coming thick and fast after Murphys sky meltdown last night.

      Hold the line Scotland. We’ve got them where we want
      them. The unionist msm are making collosal errors of judgement. Their propaganda is about to go all round the world causing masive damage to their reputation. No one likes a bully. Not the Scots nor any other people on this planet. Its surreal that Scotland is getting her moment of history at long long last. Fasten your seatbelts!

    150. Stevie boy says:

      ****MUST READ****

      Rev and fellow wingers!

      Went to the community centre where Miliband was.. after the event and the converted No Labour voters flocking out I ran home and grabbed a large YES poster. I stood at the door where he was meant to come out, behind the press, and held my poster up.

      I had heard that the local Labour chap had phoned all the local die hard Labour supporters to attend the meeting so obviously preaching to the converted.

      I was tipped off this morning he would be there but I was the only YES supporter outside. While standing I was noticed by journalists and was interviewed and photographed by the Scotsman, radio 5 live, the Sun (also a hint that The Sun may come out in favour soon!), French reporter and a Japanese reporter. They all asked why I was the only YES supporter ther to which I explained it was all hush hush and I only found out by being tipped off this morning. I also have loads of reasons why Scotland was fed up of Westminster rule and all of Scotland has finally opened it’s eyes to this and hopefully the rest of Britain will too. Also that the media and BBC are so biased and I explained to them that the Scottish people were much more informed than our English media portray us as being.

      After myself and the press waiting patiently outside for ages I noticed Margaret Curran inside the door and clocking that I was standing holding my Yes poster. 10 minutes later we had a representative come out and tell everyone that Miliband had left by the other door!!

      Ed Miliband came up to talk to us the people and because of ‘1’ person with a Yes poster he sneaked out the side door.. shocking!!!

    151. bobdog collie says:

      If I was the newsagent I used to be I would be removing the Daily Mail from my shelves because of this article and tell them to shove off

    152. Lesley-Anne says:

      Feartie is as feartie does Stevieboy. WELL DONE! 😛

    153. TJenny says:

      EdinScot – I know, it’s a case of ‘They came, we saw, they bunkered’.

      So much so for coming to Scotland to LISTEN to the people – all events screened attendance and stage managed – well, that’ll do it for me – NOT. 🙂

      Complete fools, why, Oh why, were they ever elected?

    154. Thepnr says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      Try not to wet yourself 🙂

    155. Lesley-Anne says:

      It’s all right Thepnr I’ve got a huge towel ready to hand in case of *ahem* emergencies! 😛

    156. Rob says:

      OT Bettertogether Aberdeen have flooded my facebook with 100’s of spam adverts for the union……. anyone know how i can delete them?

    157. Stevie boy says:

      Just saw myself on SKY news (well just about lol).

      I’m the chap at Miliband’s debacle standing with the Yes poster!

      Think they purposely tried not to get me in.

    158. As a long-time Yes supporter, I and another member, a very fiesty lady, have, since February, been battling to get the Yes case across to our pensioners organisation’s fortnightly news discussion class.

      Back then, there was a 15-8 No-Yes split in our voting intentions. In June that split had become 15-12 No-Yes. This afternoon, in our final meeting before the vote on the 18th, the vote was 20-7 for Yes.

      The members, all retired are mainly middle-class, comfortably-off, a lot of former teachers and people who worked in the public service. I would have expected there to be an in-built No majority.

      So, to see so-many having moved across to Yes has convinced me, we will win this. Previously I had believed: We can win this, but might still be pipped.

      The fiesty lady had a few WBBs with her, which were eagerly sought. She handed one to the most-vociferous of the intending No voters, who handled it as if it was a steaing turd.

      Aye well, you cannot win them all, but, I am now certain we will win – but, still intending to keep up the pressure for a Yes vote.

    159. england says:

      Please vote yes, because to be honest England is sick of you spitting your dummy out whenever things get difficult or you think there’s a chance of holding someone to ransom.

    160. goulashman says:

      The hysteria, the barrage of negativity, the panicked ‘last moment’ warnings, the BBC, the Guardian all the MSM the mouth piece of Tory/Unionist propaganda. Scarcely a look at YES. The false heart/head’ contrast in attempt to diminish the YES positives, coming BTW from the wide variety of groupings making up the YES campaign (it is not about Salmond, the SNP). I do believe more and more voters are seeing through the attempt of the Westminster plutocracy and their base in the big corporations to protect their vested interests.

    161. Lesley-Anne says:

      Congratulations Socrates. Just show perseverance does win out in the end. 😉

    162. Capella says:

      @ Rob
      Google “remove facebook spam” , you could specify which browser you use, and you will get a list of links with advice such as
      http://tinyurl.com/ncg7wyf
      Be careful you don’t end up downloading a trojan,just use sites you trust.

    163. Rob says:

      @capella, thanks. I’ll give it a try

    164. liz says:

      Was out leafletting today in leafy glasgow southside and met 3 ladies and 1 gent chatting in their garden, all No.

      They were quite friendly so we got chatting and they started to ask lots of Qs.

      Every quote from then was straight from BT and the BBC.

      We got round to the too poor arguement and since they all hated AS, I said the UK Gov web site has information on every area of the UK , tax in/out per head of population.

      We give £1700, get back £1300 – thought it was a waste of time so said enjoy your day and on leaving , the man said – I think I’ll start a DK group and one of the woman said I’ll need to look up that UK gov website.

      So a slim chance of 2 recruits.

    165. Robert Peffers says:

      For heaven’s sake. BBC blurting out at regular intervals that Standard Life is shifting parts of its business to England. This is another BBC insult to our intelligence, along with Cameron’s plea not to tear, “His Country”, apart.

      The first insult is idiotic. In the event of Scotland disuniting the bipartite United Kingdom EVERY COMPANY doing business in both Scotland & England will need to have, a “Registered Head Offices”, in both independent countries. Reason being you need a registered head office in order to pay the tax on the business you do in an independent country. As for Cameron’s insult I note the BBC reporting it differently now that it has been pointed out Cameron’s little faux pas of saying, “I love my country more than I love my party”, when his country is England and mine is Scotland. I suppose I could say, “I love my country too, Mr Cameron, and I’m rather fond of your country too, Mr Cameron, but I detest your party even worse than I detest UKIP for UKIP is at least honest in its views.

      Mind you it is a total waste of time objecting to Cameron’s total failure to understand even basic British geography. It must be the poor quality of education at Eton & Cambridge. None of their former pupils seen to be able to differentiate between, Britain, The British Isles,Great Britain, England and the United Kingdom. Cameron regularly refers to The British Armed Forces, the British Parliament and often claims he is PM of Britain. Seems no one has told him Britain contains four UK countries and four non-UK countries. The smug, arrogant numptie regularly insults at least some of the peoples of the British Isles.

    166. Midgehunter says:

      Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail:

      “Enough, I say again, is enough. As an Englishman, I feel my country has done all it can for Scotland and the Scots, sharing our country and wealth in the most open-handed way, while being branded as exploiters in return by a people for whom a vindictive ingratitude now seems to be a way of life.”

      I’m looking forward to the 19th Sept. old boy but until then ferk orf.

    167. desimond says:

      Just had a genuine wee referendum moment there.

      I work in London and English colleague called from downstairs. Got around to vote talk and he asked “You know how you will vote?”. I said “2 secs” and then sent him a picture of me with my ‘AYE 2014’ t-shirt on from a recent holiday.

      He paused and then said “I hope you’s dont go, I’d like you’s to stay”.

      It was a genuine thought of friendship and loss.

      I smiled and said “Dont worry mate, we’re only across the road”.

    168. That news guy on BBC Robinson (I think) has just said the new poll out tonight has it 53% No and47% Yes.

      Has the poll been publicised???

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      It was a lovely day today, so I was out chatting up granies. 🙂

      I was very pleasantly surprised that out of those who had yet to vote, the majority were for Yes. One even told we she would be voting for Scotland. When I asked her to narrow that down a bit, she replied “Yes ya dafty”. 🙂

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @BrianW says: 10 September, 2014 at 1:16 pm:

      “It’s getting boring now”.

      Well, BrianW, this daft lot either think their Scots readership are daft or they think their English readership are daft. This really shows us who the actual daft people are and it is the Daily Mail. Tell you what, though, I’m almost certain that we can conclude that the English readership, on a per-capita percentage basis, will be a damned site less aware they are reading claptrap than the Scots.

    171. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      Poor Dave will be heartbroken if Scotland leaves the union.
      Well I will be heartbroken if they don’t. There that’s him cancelled out.

    172. djmac7 says:

      Whatever posters are putting out about a 53/47 in favour of NO that is quite clearly not ‘sensational’.

      New offers welcomed!

    173. Epiphyta says:

      I brought up the referendum on another forum and was promptly screamed down: Hadrian’s Wall! EU! No oil! Can’t have the pound!

      Now I remember why I stopped spending time there . . . .

    174. Jimmy says:

      except it’s not true, yes those words are on the front page but it’s clearly shown to be an opinion piece. and it’s certainly not ‘The Headline’

      http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77487000/jpg/_77487722_mail10.jpg

      I’m as far in the yes camp as anyone but this is just dishonest, you shouldn’t need to deceive your readers to enforce the view they probably already hold if they’re reading this blog.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      Dr Jim says: 10 September, 2014 at 1:19 pm:

      “English people in general,not all,but a very large amount are the most racist people i know and i have lived and travelled in several countries around the world most of my life. This is not to say they are bad people,they just don’t know they’re doing it.”

      I’ll vouch for that Dr Jim. I worked among them and for a time lived among them and many were/are the salt of the Earth. The point you make is valid and they are indeed racist but mostly it is not vindictive.

      The English have a derogatory word for just about every non-English nation on Earth. In Britain they have Jocks, Sweaties, Paddys, Micks, Taffs, Bog-hoppers and further afield Frogs, Huns, Nazis, Greasers, Rag-heads, WOGs, Wops, Yanks, Diggers et al.

      Now I ask you – what collective derogatory name have the other British peoples got for the English? Thing is, in most cases, there is no real hurtful intent behind it. Probably more a case of boosting their own self-esteam than putting down the other person’s. Funny thing is they do it amont themselves too. The name, “Cockney”, is said to derive from, “Cock’s eggs”, where country folk were taking the pee out of inner Londoners but they have such names for just about every area of England, for example, “Geordies”, “Westos”, and so on.

    176. desimond says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      It was a lovely day today, so I was out chatting up granies

      BEST POST EVER!!

    177. Rock says:

      Stevie boy,

      Well done!

      The media will surely have noticed that the leader of the Labour party, surrounded by his cronies, could not even face one single Yes supporter.

      But as complices of the No campaign, they will not mention it. They are all in it together.

    178. Blair paterson says:

      Cameron talks about our great family of nations being together for over 300 years but never refers to how they are together the Welsh forced through through war, and the Irish and the scots through threats and bribery ! Some family ,the only winner has been England the most successful union in history aye for England again for the rest of us a disaster but hey don’t let the facts or the truth get in the way of a bright shining lie O.T. I have just had the results of a poll I held yes. 72 per cent no 28 per cent ? Well my polls are just as accurate as theirs. Vote yes

    179. Chic McGregor says:

      They say the word Sassenach is derogatory, it isn’t really, in meaning, but somtimes it is used as a dig and taken as such.

    180. not a scottish traitor says:

      Still Undecided – Ask yourself this.
      We are approaching the final week. If YOU are undecided now and are living in Scotland then you have been terrified by the negativity of the Better Together campaign. Once YOU understand why you are still hesitant to decide, then this will make it easier.
      IT IS IN WESTMINSTERS INTEREST TO MAKE YOU PETRIFIED. THAT SIMPLE!!
      One day after a Yes vote 95% of the complete future oil reserves currently under the North Sea & New West Coast oilfields, valued at between; 1-3 TRILLION POUNDS will legally transfer from Westminster control to the Scottish government and there is nothing that Westminster can do to stop it under International law. Future remaining tax receipts to be collected from Scotland’s waters are estimated at between 300-650 Billion pounds. This is the power that your vote has on the 18th of September. Maybe never before in history have 4 million voters had such potential for massive positive change for THEIR country.
      Control of the UK’s greatest ever insurance policy against their debts will transfer to Scotland and the tax receipts remaining in Scotland’s waters will go direct to Edinburgh and not to London after the official legal handover in 2016. They are the ones that should be worried about currency, not you. We are well covered; we will have their insurance policy. If it has kept 65 million peoples currency afloat for 40 years, how long will it support the currency of 5 million?
      If you answer these 6 questions by yourself truthfully then you will be better prepared to reach an informed decision.
      Ask yourself this, If YOU were going to lose between 1-3 Trillion pounds as the UK currencies insurance policy against their debts, and annual income of between 4-12 billion in oil taxes alone, future tax receipts of up to 650 Billion Pounds and you could lie to protect it, would you? I would, I would lie about everything, Currency, the EU, supermarket prices, mortgages, pensions, border posts, even bleeding X factor if I thought that it would make you vote no. I would offer any power that you asked for, (without it being legally binding; of course), just to vote no, especially if I already had debts of 1.3 TRILLION pounds and rising daily.
      This is THE basis of the NO campaign; provide total negativity to the electorate, frighten them enough to vote no, not because they care about you, but to hold onto these reserves & the revenue that they create.
      Westminster refused Devo-Max being put on the ballot paper. This was what the majority of Scots would have accepted 1 year previously; equal partners, with a shared policy on defence & foreign affairs with total control of our revenues to follow our countries separate political path & aspirations, but still within the UK. This was the easy option for many back then.
      Ask yourself this – If Westminster cared about the people, and not just about the revenues, why then did they not allow this on the ballot? Could it be that people do not matter to them, revenue and power is their only motivation?
      Ask yourself this – Have Westminster provided one positive plan to lift almost 1 million Scots out of poverty? On the contrary, both Labour & the Tories have already stated that deeper and continued austerity will be required to at least 2018. 25 billion of cuts are already approved for 2015, and a further 86 billion to balance the deficit before they even tackle a DEBT of approx. 1.6 Trillion pounds by 2018.
      I have a plan, it is to create thousands of jobs in Scotland, and allocate money to invest in our infrastructure at the expense of London & the SE. At NO additional cost to what we are already paying to Westminster, see below.
      Ask yourself this – Have BT provided any positive plan to save Scotland money apart from deeper austerity and the removal of services? I have, a Yes vote will remove Trident replacement, 120 billion, Hs2, 4.7 billion, Westminster refurbishment; 500 million, not pay for Westminster or the House of Lords; 100 million per annum, do not pay for the London sewerage system upgrade, cross rail project, new London Airport & many more London & SE projects, another 2 billion at least. Change our military to a defensive capacity from an offensive capacity, an immediate saving of 1 billion per year. We currently pay Westminster 3.1 billion for defence but receive only 2 billion spent in Scotland. A YES vote saves us 130 billion pounds plus without spending one more penny than we are already being or will be charged by Westminster. Would YOU rather it was spent on frontline services here or sent to Westminster?
      Ask yourself this – Have BT provided one positive plan to provide additional quality jobs to Scotland? I have, 12000 direct military defence force jobs will be stationed IN SCOTLAND, with their families. These will provide thousands of additional procurement, support & logistics jobs at no cost to us as we already pay for them.
      200 NEW embassies will be required for some of the world’s richest countries in Edinburgh, generating hundreds of direct jobs and millions to the local economy, boosting airport travel & raising our nations profile at no cost to us. All of the oil company head offices currently in London will move to the capital city of the country who OWNS the oil, Edinburgh, creating thousands more quality jobs and tax revenue at no cost to us.
      All jobs outside Scotland that relate to OUR TAX REVENUES, Income Tax, N.I.C. VAT, Oil revenues, Listed companies & oil company corporation tax, Export tax, betting & gaming, alcohol & tobacco, Inheritance tax, fuel duty, road tax, Capital gains tax, Air passenger duty and even payments towards our so called debt that Westminster have run up on our behalf. Countless thousands of jobs created by the 35 billion pounds that Westminster spent for us last year will return home, revenues that will then be collected in Scotland, by Scots who live here, sent to Holyrood and will be spent by Holyrood for the benefit of the people of Scotland and not Westminster without any cost to us as we already pay for them.
      Ask yourself this – Do YOU believe in HOPE over FEAR? Look around any village or town in Scotland. Have they got better? Have you or your family got more disposable income in your pocket than you had 15 years ago? Do you feel more secure in your job? Do you feel that your services are safe? Do you believe that Westminster is truly acting in your interests? Do you believe that the widening gap between the very rich and the poorest is fair? Do you believe that the new massive cuts announced up to 2018 will target the very rich or the working people of this country?
      BT has offered nothing but deeper austerity and pain, YES has offered hope and a chance for positive change. You may never get this chance again.
      Do not let them scare you into what you may lose. Just look at what you have to gain. Yes offers this, no offers nothing.
      Lose your fear; believe in yourself, your people and your nation to do it better.
      If I can come up with a positive plan like this, without it costing us any more than we already pay then think what plans the greatest minds in Scotland can come up with when planning our Nation’s future.
      THE FUTURES BRIGHT, THE FUTURES OURS TO DECIDE. Vote YES.

    181. Robert Peffers says:

      This morning I went to the pet shop at the Halbeath Shopping precinct in Dunfermline. I had forgotten to buy the wee pillion’s kibble while doing the weekly shop. I had intended to be just in and out, then fill up the van with diesel and get on with trawling around with Saltires flying and, (where possible Tannoy turned on).

      I returned to the campervan and found several people waiting there. Then followed an impromptu referendum debate session. It was mainly preaching to the converted but what was encouraging was the very few Naysayers were getting answers but not only from myself. You know something? A year back and it would have just been my voice crying in the wilderness. This referendum has caused a political awakening of the people of Scotland and Scotland will never return to being someone else’s poodle. Nothing succeeds like an idea whose time has come and the idea that Robert Burns dreamed about is, “Coming yet fir aa that”.

      This morning I went to the pet shop at the Halbeath Shopping precinct in Dunfermline. I had forgotten to buy the wee pillion’s kibble while doing the weekly shop. I had intended to be just in and out, then fill up the van with diesel and get on with trawling around with Saltires flying and, (where possible Tannoy turned on). I returned to the van and found several people waiting. There followed an impromptu referendum session and a growing crowd. It was mainly like preaching to the converted. What was encouraging was that the very few Naysayers were getting answers not only from myself. You know something? A year back and it would have just been my voice crying in the wilderness. This referendum has caused an awakening of the people of Scotland and Scotland will never return to being anyone else’s poodle. Nothing succeeds like an idea whose time has come and the idea that Robert Burns dreamed about is, “Coming yet fir aa that”.

      Then let us pray that come it may,
      (As come it will for a’ that,)
      That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth,
      Shall bear the gree, an’ a’ that.
      For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
      It’s coming yet for a’ that,
      That Man to Man, the world o’er,
      Shall brothers be for a’ that.

      By Robert Burns.

      It won’t be the first time Scotland has led the World to something better. Voltaire said, “We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation”.

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      @Chic McGregor says: 10 September, 2014 at 8:09 pm:

      “They say the word Sassenach is derogatory, it isn’t really, in meaning, but somtimes it is used as a dig and taken as such.”

      If fact the Concise Scots Dictionary quotes : –
      Sassenach = English speaking, (formerly also applied by Highlanders to the Lowlanders of Scotland).

    183. M Finn says:

      Jeez!!!! Unbelievable, especially Mr Peffers

    184. Ken MacColl says:

      BBC rolling News programme just droppped a DK commentator and is left with an American Law professor Colleen Gaffy (?) who is trotting out an uncritical establishment line while talking utter garbage.

    185. Mosstrooper says:

      Sassunach means english person or individual from Sassun=England and Neach (phonetic nyach)– person or individual in sassunach the Ne is dropped. There, now you can say sassunach bassurt with knowledge.

    186. Chic McGregor says:

      Actually it means simply ‘Saxon’.

      ‘English speakers’ would be something like ‘luchd na Beurla’ ‘people of the English (tongue)’.

      In Gaelic, the term for English the language, is quite different from the term for the people. Unlike in English itself where ‘English’ can mean either.

      But it was sometimes applied to Lowlanders as well by Highlanders, as was indeed the term ‘gall’ which means something akin to ‘foreigner’ or incomer.

      Anyway, the point is, it has no intrinsic derogatory meaning on its own, it is purely a straightforward rather prosaic description, in origin.

      But it would be churlish not to acknowledge that it has been used with offensive intent by those ignorant of that fact and recognised as such by the recipient.

    187. Brus MacGallah says:

      Sassen = Saxon

    188. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “except it’s not true, yes those words are on the front page but it’s clearly shown to be an opinion piece. and it’s certainly not ‘The Headline’”

      It’s the headline of the article. We link to the article so people can see it in full for themselves. Nothing’s being hidden.

    189. E.P. Lowe says:

      You wrote “Front-page splash”, except it wasn’t a front-page splash, was it?

      Is dishonesty something a Reverend wants to be associated with?



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