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Wings Over Scotland


Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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    1. Cubby says:

      Clapper 57 I also think your comments are wasted here. They should be on MT. good stuff. You should try not to take any criticisms of your comments to heart.

      With regards to Swinson I bet many people in England probably listening her don’t even think she is Scottish.

    2. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 12.58pm

      Hi Ian, yes it would be nice to post on MT…but just have a look at the comment after your last comment on MT just now..( that is after your comment re Dave apologising)..why should I , or others for that matter, have to put up with that ….healthy debate..yes..abuse and accusations…nope….it sickens me and ruins what should be a lively and welcoming site for all.

      I know I am naughty for posting my comments on OT…will try and limit them…not that I think that was what you meant in your comment to me….see what I mean you get so paranoiac on here thinking people will misunderstand your comment because there is so much negativity and misrepresenting of your opinion on MT….it’s become , for some, a ‘my way or the highway’ kind of attitude…and a certain person telling you to …you know what “OFF” yesterday was shocking.

      Have a lovely day


    3. Clapper57 says:

      @ Cubby @ 1.18pm

      Cubby, I hate all of the negativity and think, IMHO , that calling people out because they do not support the SNP is wrong.

      I am an SNP member BUT I am entitled to challenge them when I see that some of them are IMHO are being way too focused on Brexit and the UK while seemingly taking their eye of the Indy ball…I may be wrong…you and others may be right….but I will never accuse others who support Independence as being anything other than independence supporters.

      Remember we do not know each other , we do not know what kind of lives we lead outside this bubble we post on….please please be a better person, one that I am sure you are and focus on helping us to win Independence because we are all human and need to act as such….let’s not alienate people irrespective of who they vote for.

      ps. Guess you deserve to slight me for my last comment to Ian B as yes it was targeting YOUR last comment on MT….this is an never ending cycle of he said she said…let’s us break it now.

    4. Cubby says:

      Clapper 57 I’m fairly confident that my family and friends think I am a pretty decent person already but everyone can always improve. I am also pretty confident you are a decent person as well.

      I certainly do not go around accusing loads of posters as being anti independence/ phoney supporters ( something some posters for their own reasons have tried to pin on me). I may think all the anti SNP/ Sturgeon/ Scotgov comments all the time serve no useful purpose at this point in time. As I have stated many times I have no affiliation for any political party I just don’t think it serves a lot of purpose to criticise the Scotgov at this critical time. I may be proved wrong that the mandate is not used but I am willing to give the Scotgov the benefit of doubt at present. If they are not planning to do something then they are putting up a pretty good smokescreen. Apart from that why would a political party that exists for independence do nothing. Logically I am sure you will agree that I hope I am right as it will mean an opportunity to gain our independence.

      No problem with your comment about my post. That was your opinion. Similarly, I have looked at my post again and don’t see anything wrong with it.

      We should never forget that Britnats cause great damage to people in Scotland and I will never respect phoney independence supporters on Wings. I cannot help it if some people who are genuine independence supporters think I am referring to them when I say that – I’m not.

      With regards to personal abuse I try to give people the opportunity to apologise if it’s directed to me from a genuine independence supporter but if not then I’m afraid I do hold grudges. We all have our personal failings. My experience is that some posters cannot accept losing an argument or being proved wrong and resort to personal insults. I fully accept it can sound a bit like a child saying he started it. But it is what it is.

      Similarly if an independence supporter posts unacceptable comments like racism I make no apology for calling them out. They of course do not like it and resort to personal insults.

      I also think we should also just cut each other a bit of slack. Ok Peffers said F off and it was not his normal response but perhaps he is also feeling a bit bullied as well. I am sure he is a decent person as well.

      Anyway going back to my initial point your posts up thread are wasted on here – again just my opinion.

    5. Clapper57 says:

      Hi Cubby ,I typed a response to you on MT under ‘The Contaminant’ thread.



    6. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This is a post I did on my Facebook page today. It works here with a small alteration.

      “The last and biggest pro-independence march and rally of the year takes place in Edinburgh next Saturday, 5th October.

      March starts at Holyrood Park at 1pm, progresses up the Royal Mile to George IV Bridge, then down to The Meadows. I understand around 300 Yes Bikers will travel the route ahead of the pipes and drums and marchers.

      My plan was that my son and I would bus down to Edinburgh, visit a bra’ wee cafe we discovered last year for nosebags, then walk up to George IV Bridge to join the march. A pint or two after the rally then bus back to Dundee, leaving Edinburgh at 20.20, arriving back in Dundee at 21.55.

      That was the plan so I booked the bus tickets last week, only to find out, subsequently, that Chris and his Mum are leaving for a holiday in Greece on 2nd October so he won’t be here for the march/rally.

      Therefore, I have a spare return ticket, to and from Edinburgh next Saturday.

      Leave Dundee, Seagate Bus Station at 09.20. Change at Broxden approx 09.55.
      Arrive Edinburgh Bus Station at 11.20.

      Leave Edinburgh Bus Station at 20.20.
      Arrive Dundee, Seagate Bus Station at 21.55.

      Cost: £18 for the return ticket.

      If you want it, email me at:-

      bumfluffbrian [at] doonthetoon [dot] plus [dot] com
      (Remove bumfluff for the correct email addy.)

      First come, first serve.

    7. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Do you happen to know where I could get details of any buses going from Glasgow?

      Sorry to be such a lazy arse but things have been a bit frantic here and I honestly didnlt realise the Edinburgh march was so close. I don;t want to drive as last time we went to the park & ride at Hermiston and it was a total fuckin nightmare getting back, there were no buses, and that was relatively early.

    8. a few examples of FoI questions around imports and exports

      Sent: 18 April 2017 20:50
      To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
      Subject: Re: Freedom of information request

      Dear N,

      I am still trying to pursue my FoI request as to how production of oil , whiskey, gas and electricity are showing in the regional export and import balances and have been trying to use the statistics base you sent me

      I am struggling to find a table with the Import Export figures for the 4 home countries in your statistics going back ten years.

      I found this one for Scotland going back to 2012

      While I understand that Oil exports are not credited to Scotland, there does seem to be a substantial Mineral Fuel figure amounting to more than 20% of Scotlands import figures from year to year.

      How is it possible that oil exports are NOT credited to Scotland, but Scotlands consumption of oil is counted as an import?

      Cllr Cadogan Enright

    9. UK stats office explaining why tankers of oil are not credited as exports from Scotland

      (dozens of questions – they always answer te question you did not ask – but persistence and re-phrasing gets them in the end
      Fri 21/04/2017 13:12
      UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs) uktradeinfo [at] hmrc [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk
      RE: Freedom of information request
      Cadogan Enright

      Dear Cadogan,

      The following link will take you to the starting point for building your own data table. This is where you can input your own criteria to create the equivalent dataset of the graph that you previously referred to.

      The next link will take you to the page where the RTS archive of releases and commentaries are found. Using the drop down function will enable you to look back at the releases from 2008.

      Exports of Crude oil (CN8 27090090) are made up of two aspects:
      • That exported by oil tanker is allocated to the region based on the proportion of the employees of the exporting business located within that region.
      • That exported directly from an off-shore oil rig is allocated to the region which is nearest to that rig as we receive no information on who the exporting business is.

      Import figures are not based on the location of where it is consumed but is allocated to the region based on the proportion of the employees of the importing business located within that region.

      Kind regards

    10. From: Cadogan Enright
      Sent: 27 March 2017 14:40

      To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
      Subject: Freedom of information request

      Dear N,

      I am referring to the specific data set in the link I sent you below showing the import/export balance for the 4 Nations of England, Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland. –

      For 2016, It shows Wales in balance, NI and England in deficit and Scotland in Surplus on the left hand side of this link from your website;

      It is not unreasonable of me to expect that you would be aware of which Nation’s heading would show Petroleum and Whisky exports given the small number of companies involved and that these products are overwhelmingly produced in one of the 4 Nations.

      I am trying to determine if exports as depicted in your statistics are shown by the port of export, or the home country of production.

      It goes to the heart of the veracity of your statistics.

      Given the size of Petroleum and Whiskey production in pounds sterling, the statistics for Scotland look improbably low. I have similar concerns here in Northern Ireland, but an answer on Petroleum and Whiskey would satisfy my question

      I refer you to government statistics on oil which show £19.6 billion exports of oil alone .

      And value of Whiskey trade

      These two figures alone equal the figures shown by you of £25.5 billion for all Scotland’s exports during 2016 as shown in your figures.

      When you look at the Scottish Government’s total of international exports (excluding oil and gas) they show £28.7 billion in 2015 v’s your £25.7 Billion total for 2015

      Can you explain the difference – this is the essence of of FoI request

      Cllr Cadogan Enright

      ———- Forwarded message ———-
      Date: Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:38 AM
      Subject: RE: Freedom of information request
      To: cadogan enright

      Dear Cadogan,

      The Regional Trade Statistics figures are based on the location and employment of the businesses exporting and importing the goods. They are not based on the location of the manufacturer / consumer nor the location of where the goods enter or leave the UK. It cannot therefore be assumed that all Scotch Whiskey is exported from Scotland. There is some additional re-allocation of region done for Crude oil exported directly from offshore oil rigs but not that exported via tanker which is allocated by location / employment of the exporting business.

      The full methodology can be found here:


    11. more random selections from my file

      From: Cadogan Enright
      Sent: 30 June 2017 16:14
      To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
      Subject: FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST No.2 – attention N
      Dear N

      I asked you a specific question on 18th April (see below) to which I have not received a reply.

      In our correspondence to date, we have established that Oil exports or other hydrocarbon or energy exports are not credited to Scotland in the Regional Trade Statistics.

      However in going though the database you sent me, it does appear that you allocate a substantial Mineral Fuel figure amounting to more than 20% of Scotlands import figures from year to year to Scottish imports.

      While I accept that mineral oil exports are NOT credited to Scotland, is it true that Scotland’s consumption of oil is counted as an import?

      If this is a correct understanding of the figures, why is this so?

      IE Exports not counted to Scotland’s Regional Trade Statistics, but consumption of Mineral Oils counted as an import.

      The relevant link is shown below.

      With thanks

      Cadogan Enright

    12. and it gets more and more detailed . . . .

      From: Cadogan Enright
      Sent: 03 April 2017 21:29
      To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
      Subject: 1449 Freedom of information request

      Dear N

      I have 5 follow up sets of questions labelled A, B C, D and E;

      A. Questions on section 3.9 in the document attached below;
      The section on ‘gas and electricity’ is easy to follow but, oil is VERY vague – can you clarify the brief summary in the document you sent me in section 3.9

      “Where oil is processed on rigs in the North Sea and dispatched directly to other countries, the oil does not enter the UK and therefore does not obtain any regional coding. The RTS methodology categorises this oil trade based on the location of the oil rig. This allocation also uses information from the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999. Oil imported or exported into or out of the UK via ship will be associated with a business. Trade is allocated to the region where the business is registered subject to the main allocation method outlined above.”

      1. what does this mean? “The RTS methodology categorises this oil trade based on the location of the oil rig. This allocation also uses information from the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999. Oil imported or exported into or out of the UK via ship will be associated with a business. Trade is allocated to the region where the business is registered subject to the main allocation method outlined above.” ?
      It appears to imply that either the Scottish Adjacent Water Boundaries Order OR that oil exported by ship and associated with a business will result in Oil exports not being credited to Scotland’s regional trade balance. Is this correct?

      2. Is it fair to say that businesses for this purpose are often not registered in Scotland?

      3. Are any of them registered in Scotland?

      B. Question on Section 3.10

      “Treatment of unusual trade There are a number of categories of trade that present difficulties in terms of assigning regions to the business or activities responsible for the trade flows. These are described below. These are recorded in the ‘Unallocated’ category, split ‘Unallocated – Known’ where full details are known but it is not realistic to allocate it to a region; and ‘Unallocated – Unknown’ where not enough detail is known to allocate to a region.”

      What are the main types of catagories of trade that fall into the ‘Unallocated’ Catagory. Are any of these related to Whiskey, Gas, Electricty or Oil?

      C. Questions on section 3.11
      “Overseas businesses registered in the UK There are a number of businesses who act within the UK on behalf of foreign companies overseas, operating as ‘ghost presences’. For ease of administration, the majority of these businesses are registered for VAT purposes with Customs House, Aberdeen. The RTS methodology categorises this ghost trade as ‘Unallocatedknown’, as allocating it all to Scotland would falsely inflate the Scottish share and we do not have any information to enable us to re-allocate these data to other regions.”

      This clearly indicates that this huge volume of petroleum related exports are NOT credited to Scot;and, but to the rest of the UK – am I correct?

      What are the main types of catagories of trade that fall into the ‘Unallocatedknown’ Catagory. Are any of these related to Whiskey, Gas, Electricty or Oil?

      D. Questions on Whiskey.
      Diageo is the world’s biggest whisky producer with malt distilleries open to the public at Blair Athol, Glenkinchie, Dalwhinnie, Royal Lochnagar, Cragganmore, Cardhu, Glen Ord, Clynelish, Talisker, Oban, Caol Ila and Lagavulin.

      It is registered and has it headquarters in London.

      Sections 3.2, 3.3 and 3.4 seem to indicate that Whiskey production will not be allocated to Scotland’s account – but either all to the South East Region, or in proportion to Diageo’s employment around the UK, on on account of the address of its VAT registration – London.

      Can you clarify this with specific reference to Diageo as an example?

      E. Section 3.8 on Gas and Electricity.

      This section seems to be clear. The region from whence the gas or electricity flows abroad is credited with the export. Is this a correct interpretation?

      Does that mean that Scotland as a net producer of gas and electricity is not credited with the flow of these commodities that leaves its region, but this surplus is credited to other Regions as their ‘exports’?

      Thanks for your attention in this matter.

      Councillor Cadogan Enright

    13. dadsarmy says:

      @Cadogan Enright
      It beats me. I tried to check out where whisky is bottled, if there’s any statistics for that. A cask of whisky is worth so much, but the bottles from it are clearly worth more than a cask. And a lot of bottling is done outside Scotland, in England, no idea how much. So the bottles are greatly value added over the cask value. To be called Scotch it has to be matured in the cask in Scotland, but not as I understand it, bottled. Unless perhaps a single malt!

      The other thing or the same thing (both) is whisky being moved in bond, where the UK excise duty isn’t paid until it’s taken out of bond. Clearly if that duty was devolved it would be due to Scotland not England. But which country IS it attributed to?

      The SWA website wasn’t much help, what a surprise.

      I spent days but gave up in the end, life’s too short!

    14. dadsarmy says:

      Don’t rely on anything I said there being right by the way, it was a couple of years ago and a lot happened since then, plus I lost interest as I wasn’t getting anywhere.

    15. @Dadsarmy

      Whiskey mostly credited to London on account of VAT registration addresses

      not Scotland where it is produced

    16. dadsarmy says:

      @cadogan Enright
      Not according to the GERS FAQ though:

      Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT?

      A: Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not location of company headquarters. VAT is a consumption tax, and is therefore estimated based on purchases that are made in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.

      Q: How do taxes from the whisky industry feature in the GERS estimates?

      A: Like any industry, the whisky industry’s activity in Scotland generates tax revenue through a range of sources, such as corporation tax on profits, income tax and national insurance contributions on staff earnings, and non-domestic rates payments on business premises. These are all captured in the estimates of Scottish public sector receipts reported in GERS.

      In addition, whisky consumed in the UK is subject to VAT and alcohol duty. This is assigned to Scotland on the basis of how much is consumed in Scotland. Whisky which is exported does not generate UK VAT or alcohol duty. There is no export duty in the UK.

      Anyways, I’m not going there again, it’s a black hole!

    17. dadsarmy says:

      Sorry by the way, I suddenly realise you’re talking UKTradeinfo, I’m talking GERS 🙂

      And the ScotGov figures for trade are different from the UKTradeinfo ones if I remember rightly.

      Anyway, I’m getting an early night for a change.

    18. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cadogan Enright , you have an intrusive ‘e’ in that whisky.

      I had no idea who the eejit was who thought Edinburgh castle should be returned to ‘Britain” – I now discover he is West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine and I have great difficulty understanding how anyone could vote for a pillock so anti his country’s heritage , a cultural cretin indeed.

      I actually thought I had reached saturation level in disgust and dislike but hey ho , someone always pops up with greater idiotic disparaging comment obviously thinking to please their masters by running their own country down – and I think of very rude responses.

    19. @ Dorothy Devine – I am Irish

      but I think we can both agree that the correct original spelling was “Uisce” or Uisce beatha

    20. Dorothy Devine says:

      Happily Cadogan!

    21. dadsarmy says:

      Oh well, since the MT is OT, the OT becomes the MT!

      On 16 October, the supreme court will hold an open day to celebrate its 10th anniversary. Anyone will be able to explore the architectural splendour of its courtrooms and its colourful, swirling carpets – incorporating a Welsh leek, English rose, Scottish thistle and Northern Irish flax – designed by the artist Sir Peter Blake.” [UKSC]

      Look at Hale by the way, she’s definitely on loan from a Harry Potter movie, probably as head of Gryffindor or something like that.

    22. dadsarmy says:

      And a wee take on Aidan O’Neill,

      He’s due tomorrow to as the CoS case is about: “A judge has fixed a date for proceedings in which Scotland’s highest civil court will consider whether it can imprison the Prime Minister if he pursues a ‘no-deal’ Brexit.

      Lord Pentland arranged a hearing to take place this Friday at the Court of Session for a legal action brought by SNP MP Joanna Cherry, English lawyer Jo Maugham QC and businessman Dale Vince.

      imprison the Prime Minister

      This case is alongside the nobile officium which is next week. So basically BoJo could be jailed, plus the clerk of court in the CoS sign the request for an extension for him. Presumably Police Scotland would send a squad down to Downing Street to arrest him.

      Wonder what the EU would make of the UK’s PM being in the Bar’L.

      Better than any joke 🙂

    23. dadsarmy says:

      I think by the way that the English courts also have the power to imprison BoJo if he refuses, as that would be contemept of court if the court had ruled he must write the letter according to the “surrender act”. But it#s only the CoS has the nobile officium, or “Nob Off” power as it’s being called 🙂


    24. dadsarmy says:

      Sorry, the quote from the “imprison” post is from the Scotsmand, not Adam Wagner whose comments are interesting, if perhaps a little insitutionally ignorant of Scotland. As in this tweet: “Also, Pannick has done the heavy lifting already so he can go a bit off grid” which was both true AND untrue; different angles.

      Ha, geddit? “Angles” 🙂

      I slay myself.

    25. Dan says:

      A younger and fresh couponed John Lydon with PIL – Rise

      Although slightly different wording in the song “May the road rise up to meet you” seems appropriate for all the AUOB marchers this weekend.

      Peter Gabriel – Games Without Frontiers.

      Lyrics now seem to fairly accurately describe numerous ongoing political antics within UK.
      Someone really needs to produce the meme “If Carlsberg did political shitfests…”

    26. Clapper57 says:

      Can some kind soul put a link for Gong’s “Magdalene”…please.

      Thanks in anticipation…tonight or any night after.


    27. Shinty says:

      Trying to find out about the indy march tomorrow in Glasgow?
      Anyone direct me to detail – google has nothing but past marches – cheers.

    28. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Apologies – I missed your comment about buses until a minute ago.
      BTW: Another member of Dundee’s Team Yes Bus has claimed my spare ticket.

      The three sites I refer to are:-

      I did a check on Citylink’s site (Citylink and Megabus are intertwined) at the back of lunchtime, re buses from Dundee tomorrow for another Dundonian. Here’s what I found…

      “The 9.20, 10.05, 10.15 and 11.15 Citylink/Megabus buses are full. Another Citylink at 11.15 still has seats but doesn’t get into Edinburgh until 13.10. (change at Broxden.) If you’ve not already booked, you’ll have to look at the 3 buses at 8.45 or the 7.55.”

      Hope this helps…

      Citylink fares stay the same; the nearer you get to journey date, Megabus fares rise.

      Here are some examples from Citylink, Glasgow to Edinburgh, tomorrow morning.

      You can click on the left arrows at top right for earlier journeys.

    29. Ghillie says:

      Looking forward to seeing you all tomorrow 🙂

      Safe journeys x

    30. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Thepnr and Mrs Thepnr, Cactus, Cameron B and all old friends and new 🙂

      I’ll be looking out for you 🙂

    31. Dan says:

      My sister sent me a pic of a tray of lovely looking Saltire cakes she’s made for the morra.
      Had to check she hadn’t coloured the icing blue by grinding up a load of viagra tablets!
      Admittedly that might help keep folk’s flagpoles erect, but
      I reminded her it’s not an All Under One Boner event…

    32. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Where’s Cactus gone?

      FFS man, come back eh?


      Good luck to all heading for the march. I can’t make it. Totally gutted.

      Can’t complain though. Have been to most of the bigger marches and rallies in recent years and enjoyed them all thoroughly, even the ones that weren’t so well attended. Feels like tomorrow could be a landmark although, like others, I’m a bit wary of the numbers being bandied about.

      Here’s hoping the weather stays fair. Looking forward to getting first-hand accounts from some of you at Dows on the 25th.

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    33. dadsarmy says:


      Won’t be there myself in body, left it too late to book buses as I couldn’t guarantee being free, but will be there in spirit. Anyways, I did last year and Glasgow this year.

    34. Clapper57 says:

      @ David @ 2.19am

      Thank you David….

    35. Shinty says:

      @ dadsarmy – thanks for that – sorry but stopped buying the national a year ago – also thought the march was Glasgow. No I won’t be going to Auld Reekie. I’m off to S.A. shortly and thought it would be good to attend at least one march before I left.
      Don’t worry if there is a vote – I’ll be back in a heartbeat!

    36. Macart says:

      Wishing all the best for folks going to Embra today.

      Have a great time folks. 🙂

    37. Ghillie says:

      Thanks Macart 🙂

      This is feeling like a practice for the biggest celebration Scotland has ever seen 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Clapper57, hope we might meet!

      I expect alot of folk will gather in the Meadows that didn’t manage to join in the march.

      So where ever you are, join us there 🙂

      Oor Nicola says ‘Have a great day!’

      ‘And be in no doubt – Independence is coming’ 🙂 🙂 🙂

    38. Dan says:

      Garbage – Only Happy When It Rains (Unionist Tears)

    39. hackalumpoff says:

      Driving home today from the march. I heard these two great “protest songs” on the Radio.

      1-Martyn Joseph – Nye : A Song for the NHS

      2-Martyn Joseph – Here Come The Young

      @Welsh Sion – you kept this guy to yourselves !!

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi peeps.

      One of my highlights of the day was after we had disposed of the WOS stall, I wandered towards the stage and they were just winding up so I headed towards George IV Bridge to go back up to the Royal Mile for a pint.
      As I left the Meadows, just before the George IV Bridge, something caught my peripheral vision, on the left. I looked round and saw a squirrel (a grey, unfortunately) foraging in the fallen leaves. I stopped and watched it, whilst trying to pull my phone out of my pocket to video it. I didn’t quite manage.
      This squirrel was gallus. It wandered about “patting” the leaves until it eventually climbed the log (see the link) and looked straight at me, as if it was daring me to move.
      After a few seconds, it went back to patting the leaves in front of the log, before disappearing into the undergrowth.
      The log it clambered up is the one you can see at this link, leaning up towards the viewpoint.
      The one with the hole in the end. It just sat there, looking at me, like it was daring me to do something. At one with nature…

    41. dadsarmy says:

      Sussing you out BDTT to see if you were a threat, and after its nuts. If Wings had a few more squirrels there’d be less ferrets 🙂

    42. Dan says:

      Should have nabbed it for the pot Brian.
      Those pesky invaders may look cute but they ain’t no friend to oor red uns.
      I can personally vouch that one grey squirrel easily provides enough meat for a tasty stirfry. It tastes like a chicken / pork combination.
      Come “Brexit” foraging for decent nosh such as a grey squirrel, rather than buying shitey hormone fed beef and chicken will be all the rage.

    43. dadsarmy says:

      Haven’t played this for some time.

      YES should maybe make a banner of it to show NO voters. Or T-shirts.

    44. CameronB Brodie says:

      Right peeps, you’ve had a good long break from me. Well I’m back.

      Is Westminster still a racist patriarchy? Is the Prime Minister still acting as if the Brexit referendum was legit and Scots as having no constitutional or human rights? Is the Scottish goverment still being advised by the legal team of Doofus and Dolt, who appear determined to undermine the coherance of legal doctrin and the effectivenes of international juresprudence?

      Human rights and natural law

      “No declaration of human rights will ever be exhaustive and final. It will ever go hand-in-hand with the state of moral consciousness and civilization at a given moment in history,” says the French philosopher Jacques Maritain (1882-1973) in his text “On the Philosophy of Human Rights”, which he sent from Rome in June 1947, in response to UNESCO’s survey about the philosophical foundations of human rights. “And it is for this reason,” he adds, “that after the considerable conquest constituted at the end of the eighteenth century by the first written formulations, there is now a major interest in renewing these declarations from century to century.” – Jacques Maritain

      Taking Sex Discrimination Seriously

      Gender Semiotics and the 21st Century Feminist Utopia: Implications on National Security and Socio-cultural Development

    45. Clapper57 says:

      @ CameronB Brodie

      Welcome back…..I was really worried about you….nice to see you posting again.

      Have a lovely evening

    46. Clapper57 says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon on 7 Oct @ 11.56pm

      Hi Brian, after reading your squirrel story it reminded me of mine.

      I used to love squirrels and my hubby and I would feed them in Princes st gardens as thought they were so cute….and then….

      One morning a long long time ago…before I took early retirement ….I parked my car , as per usual, in Castle street carpark to go to work….this car park is next to one of the side entrances to princes street gardens…and as I was walking from car park to get to work in Lothian Road….an incident occurred…involving a ……squirrel !

      As I was walking all of a sudden a squirrel jumps out, from the gardens, and stops dead a few yards in front of me and stared at me…as I tentatively moved it moved too… like a Ninja and it mirrored my movements….for some reason ( i.e. Fear) I was a bit freaked out and it was….. honest to God………… blocking my path….

      Fortunately for me another girl came up behind me and she too was a tad apprehensive about said squirrel…it just seemed so CALCULATED….like it was ready to pounce…it was quite funny really because the both of us were too scared to move…and when we did …then it moved too…very ninja like and menacing….as if to say “Where the hell do you think you two are going”

      I love animals but this Ninja squirrel has totally destroyed any affection I have for squirrels ….this was the devil’s squirrel for sure….

      Eventually we both made a run for it and the wee swine chased us…which prompted us both to scream ….to any passer by who did not notice the squirrel they must have wondered what the hell was going on….and who the Hell we were trying to get away from…don’t know about her but if anybody had asked me I would have been way to embarrassed to have admitted that our behaviour was due to a ……………..squirrel…..but is was a Ninja one…so hey….justified panic obvs.

      Beware Ninja Squirrels……

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for your thoughts and kind words.


      I’m not really back, just pulling folks legs. For shits and giggles. I’ll probably not post again for a while. Saying that, I hope I’ve managed to draw folks attention to the spamheededness of believing that it is possible to self-ditermine one’s sex. As it doesn’t take a lot of philisophy to link gender and nationality, gender politics are an ideal gateway to understanding Scotlland’s predicament. The full-English Brexit treats Scotland in the same way the woke-wing of the SNP want to treat women. The First Minister might appreciate this, if she was open to a gender-critical view that is grounded in liberal, practicle, science. Not radical philosophy and ideological idealism.

      The SNP needs to divorce itself from woke radicalism and support for self-ID of sex, if it hopes to deliver self-government for Scotland.

      Hegel, Human Rights, and Political Membership


      This paper examines Hegel’s view of the relationship of human rights and political membership. Attention is accorded the concept of a right to have rights, one famously thematized by Hannah Arendt but articulated already earlier by Hegel. The discussion has five parts. Part One considers how for Hegel a notion of political membership is entailed by the concept of right itself. Part Two examines the place occupied by modern civil society in a realised account of human rights. Part Three considers the challenges posed to realised right by the phenomenon of modern poverty and the experience of ‘rightlessness’ it occasions. Part Four details how Hegel’s conception of the corporation addresses the phenomenon of rightlessness, taking into account his uniquely reflexive understanding of a right to have rights and its contribution to the project of the Philosophy of Right. The concluding section briefly compares Hegel’s conception of membership rights to Arendt’s.

      Shawn Lee’s Ping Pong Orchestra – Mood Bender

    48. Dan says:

      Hi Cameron. Hope all is well with you.
      Did you make it to any of the recent marches?

      You’ve arrived back just as the “old” Self ID shiz rears its head again.
      We were there man, in the One Week in the War on Women thread a while back as two blokes voicing our concerns over the matter.
      I’ve been busy this week with physical work restroring cars and today pouring concrete, so pretty tired and cannae really be arsed going over it all again as I’m somewhat jaded at seeing that bunch of fannies still pushing this bollox.

      Tears for Fears – Mad World

    49. dadsarmy says:

      Does this remind you of anything?

      I used to play it on piano, adding wrinkles, just for the fun of it.

      Couldn’t make it to Edinburgh, anyway it was muddy.

    50. Clapper57 says:

      @ CameronB Brodie

      Your welcome.

      I do read your stuff….but unfortunately in my family my brother got the brains and I got the brawn…so sometimes it takes a few readings to understand …some of it…I don’t know about Shawn Lee’s ‘Mood Bender’ but there is certainly a lot of changing moods going on a bender with all of this brexshit shenanigans and when’s Indy 2 going to happen… there not !!!….Lol

    51. Liz g says:

      Oh Smallaxe…. While I think of you and Mrs Smallaxe often..
      So missing yer Wisdom tonight xxx

    52. Clapper57 says:

      @ Liz G

      Hi Liz G, how you doin ?

      I am back on MT…you probably noticed…I just thought what the Hell…caution to the wind…

      You are certainly presenting a good argument on MT…gaun yirsel lassie…like another poster said..wish there was a ‘like’ option …..I would add it onto your comments fir sure…

      Have a good evening

    53. Liz g says:

      Clapper 57 @ 6.43
      Thanks for sayin Flapper xx
      And I’m glad you took the plunge back on to the main thread you’ve a thing or two to be sayin yerself my friend 🙂

    54. Dan says:

      In oot, in oot, shake it all aboot.
      Let’s do the EU hokey cokey.

      Please jive carefully…

      JXL & Elvis – A Little Less Conversation

      Stakka Bo – Down The Drain

    55. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I don’t think I’ve linked to this track before in ‘off-topic’.

      The background… Back in the early 70s, Barclay James Harvest were regarded by the music press pundits as the “poor man’s Moody Blues”. They eventually took control of that sobriquet and composed this tune, as a tribute/homage/two fingers.

      It stands up on its own as a rather good track. I like it.

    56. David says:

      The recent Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times has some very interesting findings. Here’s the link to a pdf file of some of its data tables:

      It is basically 2 full polls in one, with 1,003 people polled in Scotland and 1,010 in Eng & Wales.

      Q6 for Scots voters is “Should Scotland be an independent country?” Excluding ‘Don’t Knows’ the result is the narrowest possible win for NO with 413 against 412 for YES. There is now just a ONE-vote lead for NO!
      That’s YES on 49.94% and NO on 50.06%.

      Q6b piles the pressure on Westminster – if there is a “No-deal Brexit” then YES beats NO by 54% to 46%. 🙂

      Q10 is “Would Scotland be better off economically as an independent country within the EU, or as part of the UK outside the EU?”
      This was asked in Scotland and also in Eng & Wales, and the differences are very significant.
      In Scotland, with “Don’t Knows” removed, 55.9% say we’d be better off being Independent and in the EU. Only 44.1% said we’d be better off as part of Brexit Britain. That’s a 12-point lead for indy.

      In Eng & Wales, 69.3% said Scotland would be better off as Independent and in the EU. Only 30.7% said we’d be better off economically as part of Brexit Britain.

      Think about that. People in England and Wales are much more positive about the financial benefits of independence for Scotland!
      It shows how much negative effect the “Scottish Cringe” has.

      Too wee, too poor? Aye right! The English and Welsh know the truth, even if some BritNat Scots don’t.

    57. David says:

      Hey Brian Doonthetoon, thanks for posting Barclay James Harvest.

      Here’s one of their early songs, “Mocking Bird”

    58. Ghillie says:

      David, THAT is an interesting polling result!

      I wonder if the owner of Wings might like to discuss that?

      Thankyou for the music links folks 🙂

    59. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Cheers, David!


    60. dadsarmy says:

      It’s funny when you look back at music and think about it.

      You knew these things but who cared eh! It’s music.

    61. dadsarmy says:

      Remember when OT was mostly music? Those were the days! Anyways, don’t think I’ve ever seen Melanie played so here’s a whole album.

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If you’re definitely coming to the gathering in Dows next Friday, can you please let us know here?



    63. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Albie Dair, with the product of my lions.

    64. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Make that “loins”. My lions went to a good home.

    65. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Apologies for being presumptuous but I already had you on the list!


    66. Tam the Bam. says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Hi Ian

      Could you state the time for Wingers ‘meet-up’ @ Dows next Friday?


    67. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Hi Tam,

      Some of us will be there mid-afternoon but I imagine most will arrive between 5 and 7ish. Just whenever suits you, we’ll be in the downstairs bar until they open upstairs and that will depend how many of us arrive early.



    68. Tam the Bam. says:

      Many thanks Ian.

    69. Gary says:

      I need to get this off my chest, and, looking at previous comments on here I can see I’m not the only one who’s noticed or been aggravated by it…it’s Jo Swinson’s accent. There, I’ve said it.

      It’s just AWFUL. I’m not being racist, sexist or anything else like that. I don’t care what colour you are, where you’re from, what religion you are or whatever. I don’t even case what accent you speak in either BUT, she does take the biscuit.

      I know that she’s from Scotland and, as someone who lived in England and still visits very often, I know that you need to avoid certain words and (not joking) speak more slowly, to be understood – especially in places like London where they won’t make an effort to listen. But you don’t need to put on a phony English accent, it might not be so bad if she could pull it off and actually SOUND English but it’s dreadful, someone should tell her. It almost worse than when Dick Van Dyke did that DREADFUL Cockney accent in Mary Poppins (if you’re not old enough – Google it or try YouTube)

      English people must be genuinely offended by it. It’s like when you’re on holiday somewhere and someone you don’t even know comes up and puts on a really bad version of a Scottish accent to mock you.

      Thanks for the space to get that off my chest, I almost can’t hear what she’s saying for the sound of the fake accent, it’s beginning to sound like fingernails on a blackboard to me. But she’s a LibDem anyway so she’s not very important, luckily we don’t have to hear it much…

    70. Michael McCabe says:

      Hi folks hope you don’t mind me jumping in here. The place has changed since my last visit. Anyway to the point. A good few people who used to frequent this place regularly are meeting up tomorrow for a blether and a few beverages from about 5 pm till closing I was just wondering if any of you wanted to come along.

    71. Michael McCabe says:

      If you do fancy coming along it is taking place at Dows bar just outside Queen Street Station in Glasgow. these wee meet up are legendary the first one I went to I went by myself and since then I can honestly say I now have about 30 new friends. I know it is short notice but if you can make it you will be made most welcome. Hope to see some of you there.
      Cheers. ? ? ??????? ?

    72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 22:48 (19.Oct)

      Alas I’m going to have to give y’all a miss later today, despite my previous good intentions. Caught a bug a couple of days ago whilst on my travels, managed to make it home OK, but am in no fit state to go anywhere else right now. Besides which, don’t want to pass this particular lurgi on to any of you.

      Which adds an extra layer of self-pity on top of the usual bleary pathos of such circumstances, ‘cos I was rather looking forward to another of these all-too-rare occasions. But have a wonderful time anyway despite my absence! =grin= (Or is that “because of”…? heh, heh =laugh= =splutter=)

      PS: While in Brussels of late I discovered to my pleasant surprise, nearby to Central Station, a watering-hole called “Wings Tavern”. Took a photie that I would have printed out for the (mild) amusement of all, but there we are. (Still, you can always make do instead with streetview on Google maps, just look at the east end of La Putterie.)

    73. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland –

      Hope you’re feeling a bit better now. Sounds quite nasty.

      You would’ve enjoyed last night. Not as busy as the first gig in Dows (was that really this year too? Seems ages ago…) but a few of the ‘auld’ faces and some newbies too.

      Jim Fae the Glen got footage of BDTT’s speech and Ronnie’s acceptance of a special plaque from Donna B. Hope this link works okay and that Jim et al don’t mind it being re-linked.

      A lot of positivity in the room. General feeling appears to be that we’re very nearly there and the surprise announcement of the Nicola/National-organised rally next week is viewed as highly significant.

      Also worth noting that Angus MacNeil (aye, the MP) took the time to pop in and say hello after Ronnie A spotted him emerging from Queen St station and gave him a shout. What a lovely guy, seemed very happy to show face despite being in a hurry.

      All in all, another successful ‘Wings’ social.


    74. Cactus says:

      Howde’s, ah wisnae planning on coming back on just yet but but but, hey needs must, great to be with ye Wingers at Dow’s, that was important, I was at the RIC conference at the Radisson earlier yesterday 2, good talk.

      Excellent stuff both above and below the line as ever… keep going.

      ps ah’ve lost my phone (or somebody stole it 2nite), if ye know me call me 07940 595 ***, cheers everybody 🙂

      One of two…

    75. Cactus says:

      Hey, I got me a new phone so now back in contact, have an excellent birthday Rev, I’ll be back in a bitty, cheers all.

    76. Dan says:

      Fair Scunnered with things so my pal and I took the bikes for a wee tour around north Perthshire today.
      Absolutely stunning scenery on such a bright clear day with the autumn colours on display.
      Made our way to Glenshee, then over to Pitlochry, and along Loch Tummel, down past Schiehallion, through Fortingall wi the Yew, cut across to Invervar*, round the back of Ben Lawers, down past the hydro scheme to Loch Tay, then Kenmore, Aberfledy, and o’er the hill to Amulree and down to Dunkeld then toodled off hame.
      Scotland’s too wee… A’wa and dinae talk pish!

      Big Country – In a Big Country (with a bit of Scotland’s scenery)

      Big Country – Wonderland (I feel the winter too, coz winter is coming in more ways than one)

      * I reckon someone in Invervar has a pet panda as there seemed to be a lot of bamboo growing in the village for some reason!

    77. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Downloaded your Dow’s link yesterday – but haven’t had the courage to watch it yet!

      Further info: Dow’s upstair is gonna be open on Saturday from 11am, to act us a hub for activists/stallholders at the George Square rally; tea,coffee/stimulating beverages and so on.

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Have no fear!

      You did a splendid job, and so did abody else. Pity it wasn’t a bit busier but a great night all the same.


    79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 21:07 (26.Oct),

      Thanks for the video Ian, which I did enjoy even if necessarily at one remove this time. Add my appreciation to Ronnie also, if from a relative latecomer to the party.

      This current outage is turning out to be a bit of a sluggard to shift, but I’m still very much looking forward to at least popping in before everything starts off on the Great Day this coming Saturday. Another milestone to rank with the vote in Holyrood back in the heady days of Spring 2017.

      Unmissable! (You lot too! =laugh=)

    80. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland –


      Always good to see you popping up away from the MT.

      Unfortunately, I won’t make it to Glasgow tomorrow (unless I slip my handlers early in the morning at the shift-change) so it’s one gig I won’t be able to tell the grandweans about.

      The only party I’m really bothered about is the first post-indy one when we can all get thegither. What a party that will be sah! Where, when, and for how long?

      The mind boggles, in a good way…

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    81. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Quinie Fae Angus.

      Here are the two tracks I mentioned in Waxy’s earlier this evening.

      (Greg Lake?)

    82. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hey Brian Doon the Toon

      Thanks very much for posting the choons…..

      I do agree that the “Oh Yeah” track is absolutely DB’s “Jean Genie”! And the Shy Limbs one is quite like Procul Harum’s “Whiter Shade of Pale” – which incidentally was the No. 1 tune the week in which I was born, which is why my Dad (a former Morgan Academy pupil) has such a soft spot for it.

      Great to see you and Chris on Saturday.

    83. Macart says:

      Worth checking this out and very much worth spreading far and wide.

    84. dadsarmy says:

      Music! Guitar intro and blah:

      The Gypsy

    85. Smallaxe says:

      For Hackalumpoff;
      Van Morrison – Gypsy In My Soul

      For Nana;
      “A Young Gypsy” Joan Baez;

      For Tinto;
      Sandy Denny and Fotheringay: “Gypsy Davy”

    86. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto, here’s the track that I meant to play.

      Sandy Denny and Fotheringay: “Gypsy Davy”

    87. Smallaxe says:

      For All Wingers;

      “Don’t Let the Bastards Get you down”

      “Cheer Up” Bob Marley;

      Frankie Miller: “Caledonia”

      One People One World One Love

    88. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Evening all!

      Good to see some auld faces popping back in!

      Here’s a funky tune I just happened to have playing there on the YT.

      Earth, Wind & Fire, ‘Shining Star’

    89. dadsarmy says:

      Every time you look there’s more up there. And yeah, often enough I’ve only ever been there for the beer.

    90. Dan says:

      An ominous look into the future as Scots attempt to deal with Donalda MacKinnon’s overzealous BBC broadcasting bias.

      Canvas sheets…Keeping me up all night.

    91. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hi Dan

      Sorry for not replying, way back. I’ve not really been feeling too hot recently, so I’ve not really had much contact with the movement. Nothing to worry about.


      Folk might wonder why I’m so vocally against self-ID of sex. My training aimed to enable me to support the development of sustainable communities. This training was endorsed by the Royal Town Planning Institute, and included an introduction to ethical rationalism, which is considered a fundamental requirement of ethically moral social practice.

      Liberal constitutionalism can only remain liberal, if public policy remains grounded in empirical reality. As such, contemporary British nationalism and trans-ideology in law, were both considered as detrimental to the potential for effective and open democracy.

      Supporting trans-ideology in law, dislocates legal reason from the real world, and undermines the potential for government and public policy that is supportive of ethically moral social practice.

      Is it not a bit silly to fight tooth and claw to defend the legal personhood of those living in Scotland, while denying the same ethical logic to the legal rights of women? Endorsing a state of authoritarianism that is grounded in the irrational, whether British nationalism or trans-ideology, can certainly not be considered compatible with a state of ethical governance.

      Persons and citizens in constitutional thought

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      One for your traditional Marxists, who tend to deny the significance of personal identity, due to a unfavorable suspicion of the political emancipation of the individual. Marxists tend to view individual liberty to be a gateway for market exploitation. Solidarity, brother.

      Also suitable for the re-edumication of the woke set.

      Personal Freedom through Human Rights Law?
      Autonomy, Identity and Integrity under the European Convention on Human Rights

    93. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CamB – good to see you posting again.

      Hi Smallaxe – apologies for missing your input in the last couple of weeks.


      Collected this video via Facebook tonight. The fact that the song was about the gig location reminded me…

      When me and my son were in Campbeltown for the AUOB march, we attended an after-march party in the Argyle Arms Hotel, where the band finished off with “Mull of Kintyre” (Wings.)
      Onnywhere else, it would have been cheesy but, that night, it worked.

      But I still think that the best version of “Loch Lomond” is the recording from the Albert Halls Stirling, in the late 80s.

      Sleep pattern disturbed, hence silly hours comment.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hi Brian, I see the loonatic fringe of the reactionery right has outed itself on the MT. 🙂

      As with Zionist nationalism, Englishness is often guilty of thinking itself blessed from above, and so justified in a sense of cultural supremacy (see the full-English Brexit).

      Christian Zionism and English National Identity, 1600–1850

      This book explores why English Christians, from the early modern period onwards, believed that their nation had a special mission to restore the Jews to Palestine. It examines English support for Jewish restoration from the Whitehall Conference in 1655 through to public debates on the Jerusalem Bishopric in 1841.

      Rather than claiming to replace Israel as God’s “elect nation”, England was “chosen” to have a special, but inferior, relationship with the Jews. Believing that God “blessed those who bless” the Jewish people, this national role allowed England to atone for ill-treatment of Jews, read the confusing pathways of providence, and guarantee the nation’s survival until Christ’s return.

      This book analyses this mode of national identity construction and its implications for understanding Christian views of Jews, the self, and “the other”. It offers a new understanding of national election, and of the relationship between apocalyptic prophecy and political action.

    95. Dan says:

      Hi Cam,
      Aye, this Indy game certainly is a rollercoaster ride and there’s no harm taking a break before it makes you puke.
      I’m having a bit of an existential crisis myself these days…
      Can’t even take a break and go fishing as the water’s frozen over!
      Too fookin cold in workshop to play around with classic bike and car projects.
      By the time I get them sorted no doubt the woke brigade will be trying to ban the use of them anyway for environmental reasons, not realising that all their social media posts are sitting in mega servers consuming huge amounts of power.
      I presume they’ll be paying a price premium on their smartphone tariffs to ensure the shit they post is being held on a server powered by renewable energy.
      I mean, you are either part of the solution or part of the precipitate.

      Anyway, question for you Cam, as you regularly link to academic studies; I thought it took a lot of years of education, thought, and practical experience to develop a good strong foundation of knowledge on any particular subject.

      So how come these young cocksure woke types are supposedly so well versed and at the cutting edge in numerous different areas?
      EG. Studied economics but also think they are an expert in the fields of biology, social sciences, and geo-politics.
      I’m calling bullshit and think they spent their time studying ego-politics.

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      You might be on to something there Dan. Labour were out street campaigning in my neck of the woods, just the other day. I spoke with one elderly Scottish gent, who claimed to be a socialist who would never support nationalism. He agreed with me that Brexit was Tory madness and that it would harm Scotland. Unfortunately, his cognitive dissonance prevented him from appreciating his support for the union, was an endorsement of English (Tory) nationalism. According to this gent, Scotland has nothing to worry about over Brexit, as Corbyn is a good man, with Scotland’s best interests at hart. He’ll look out for Scotland. Apparently.

      I then got speaking with a young English woman in her thirties(?). She was open to me suggesting that contemporary British nationalism denies Scotland equal legal status to England. She reacted as if I was an unspeakable ghoul though, for suggesting that biological women need to do more to defend their legal identities, and that trans-women are not women, but biological men performing an interpretation of womanhood. Apparently the trans-cult is more culturally entrenched than I had imagined.

      Insisting that medical science and legal decree can transform man in to woman, diminishes the cultural value that can be afforded to the state of being female, thereby providing cultural justification for the legal subordination of womanhood, to the interests of biological men. As such, endorsing trans-ideology in law, ‘breaks’ legal reason and promotes the legal consolidation of misogynistic patriarchy.

      What is John Locke’s theory of natural rights and justification for a limited government?

    97. David says:

      It is about time for this old classic now, methinks:
      The Bonzo Dog (Doo Dah) Band – “No Matter Who You Vote For, The Government Always Gets In”

    98. David says:

      Last Orders! 🙂

      ‘Order!’: John Bercow’s decade of thunderous pronouncements, in 104 seconds:

      Contains all his hits, including:
      “Calm yourself man!”
      “You’re a very jocular fellow but a little over-excitable today”
      “No, No, resume your seat young man.”
      “Get a grip of yourself, man”

    99. David says:

      But wait, there’s more! Because you demanded it, here’s

      ORDER!! (John Bercow REMIX):

    100. Clapper57 says:

      @ David @ 3.21..3.35 & 3.41pm


      Are you taking requests DJ man..Lol ?

      What about ‘Cap in Hand’ the Proclaimers…seems apt at this present moment in time…….

    101. David says:

      Sing if you’re winning…

      “Deputy speaker’s fury at SNP singing EU anthem ‘Ode to Joy’ ” (73 seconds)

    102. David says:

      By special request 🙂
      “But I can’t understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand”

      Cap in Hand -The Proclaimers

    103. Clapper57 says:

      @ David @ 3.56pm

      Thanks David….you are a star.

      Have a fabby evening….

    104. David says:

      And that reminds me, Clapper57, of the other great Proclaimers song, ‘Letter from America’. Made even better, of course, with new improved LibDem spelling…

      When you go will you send back
      A letter from America?
      Lochbar no more
      Southerland no more
      Lewis no more
      Sky no more

    105. David says:

      One of the SNP’s best moments in Westminster. More of this, please!
      Scottish National Party MPs walked out en masse from the UK parliament after their leader was ordered to leave the House of Commons in a row over Brexit. (June 2018)

    106. David says:

      Because we are all getting funked up by parliament:

      Parliament – P-Funk (Wants to Get Funked Up) (1975)

    107. Clapper57 says:

      @ David @ 4.05pm

      Lol…what a riddy…that’s what happens when you get a …’Letter (Leaflet) from Engerland’…..not just Jo Swinson’s vowels that are a problem…first they came for our pronunciation…then they came for our spelling….wft will they do to our grammar…Lol

    108. David says:

      I was looking at the Scottish Liberal Democrats Income and Expenditure Account for 2018, as you do, and it struck me how small they really are.
      They get lots of press and tv coverage, their views are publicised and debated, but they are just small.
      4,000 paid-up members.
      10 employees (not all full-timers) for a wage bill of £90,000.
      5 MSPs.
      4 MPs.
      (To be fair they probably have a bucketload of Lords.)
      Total income of £292,500.
      Total expenses of £267,900.
      Yearly surplus of £24,700.

      That’s it?!

      20 years ago I was running a pub that had a greater income than that. And employed more people. And had better profitability. And was better regarded in our community…

    109. Dan says:

      Timely dedication to England.

      Kasabian – You’re In Love With a Pyscho

    110. hackalumpoff says:

      Translation, Doubt if Rev Stu will get it tha,

      Fairytale Of Stornoway

      Was Christmas Eve babe, In the drunk tank
      An old man said to me, I won’t see another one
      And then he sang a song, by Donnie Dotaman
      I turned my face away, and dreamed about you
      Got on a lucky one, Came in eighteen to one
      I’ve got a feeling, That this year’s for me and you
      So happy Christmas, I love you baby
      Can’t see a better time, When all our dreams come true
      They’ve got cars big as bars, They’ve got rivers of gold
      When the wind goes right through you, Like it does in Cromore
      When you first took my hand On a cold Christmas Eve
      You promised me ‘Broadbay’ was waiting for me
      You were handsome, You were pretty, Queen of Stornoway City
      When the band finished playing, They cried out for more
      The Blones they were swinging, Old Bodachs were singing
      We kissed on the corner, Then danced through the night
      And the boys of the SY Village Byre, Were singing “Eilean Fraoich”
      And the bells were ringing out For Christmas day
      Tha thusa làn Cac, Tha thusa làn Guga
      Tha mise dol dhachaigh gu Eilean mo ghràidh
      You Radan, you Meppan, you Cailleach, you Bleggard
      Tha do Thoin fleeking salach, I’m off to my bed
      I could have been someone, Well so could anyone
      You took my Sheep from me, When I first found you
      I kept them with me babe, I put them with my own
      Can’t make it all alone, I’ve built my Flock around you

    111. Sarah says:

      Are you a romantic, Hackalumpoff? Of course you are!!

    112. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hackalumpoff –

      ‘you took my sheep from me…’

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    113. David says:

      Stu said on his other twitter account, @RevStu, which he mostly uses for videogames stuff, that his Wings account has been “Permabanned”.
      Not good.

    114. Tam the Bam. says:

      Was in my local tonight discussing the political bish-bash…..
      guy next to me said he was sorry to see Stephen Kerr lose his seat (Tory/Stirling)

      I am not…on so many levels….I realise if I make disparaging/pejoratives re:the Mormon church.. I will be in trouble….so far beit from me to suggest the Church of Latter Day Saints is a homophobic (I’m straight by the way)American Institution…invariably Republican (they REALLY didn’t like Barack Obama….the Mormon Church only admitted ‘people of colour’ to their church in 1968 (check the timeline)…so hey WELCOME HOME ALYN SMITH!…..just thought I would share that with y’all.

    115. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Smallaxe –

      Great to see you, and TC, popping up on the MT.

      Bestest, as aye.


    116. Cactus says:

      Hey Wingers, Seasons Greetings ’19 tae ye all, cheers to ye Rev X.

    117. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B and cactus: seasonal and fraternal greetings. It’s been a tough year for us all and things are likely to get tougher for a while yet but here’s two guys (can I say that?) to inspire us:

      Heavy-handed political point over…..

    118. Marie Clark says:

      Just popped in to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas. All the best folks.

    119. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Ian, Cactus and Marie and any other Wingers that are lurking.

      TC tried to answer you earlier today, Ian but his comment didn’t appear, it probably wasn’t worth reading anyway as he’s off his med’s atm.

      Enjoy the festive season everyone and enjoy spending the time with your loved ones, family and friends are important but remember the homeless and the lonely, donate to the homeless if you are able and give generously of your time to the lonely.

      A couple of suggestions;

      Remember last year?

      Peace and Love to you All!

    120. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Greetings to all from Stevenston!

    121. Macart says:

      All the very best of the season folks. 🙂

    122. William Wallace says:

      Seasons greetings to you all and all the very best for 2020.

    123. Tinto Chiel says:

      To all the O/T gang: seasonal and fraternal greetings. It’s been a tough year for us all and things are likely to get tougher for a while yet but here’s two guys (can I say that?) to inspire us:
      Heavy-handed political point over…..

    124. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Cheers TC, never heard that before.


    125. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: you’re welcome and now you’re on a list somewhere for listening to it, hee, hee!

    126. Smallaxe says:

      Seasons Greetings to All;

      Enjoy the festive season everyone and enjoy spending the time with your loved ones.
      Family and friends are important but remember the homeless and the lonely, donate to the homeless if you are able and give generously of your time to the lonely. A smile and a kind word can make a big difference.

      I’m aware that most Wingers are kind and compassionate and will already donate to their chosen charities but I hope you don’t mind if I make a couple of suggestions;

      We may have some hard times ahead so let’s do our best to look after the most vulnerable of us who call Scotland their home now and in the future.

      Peace and Love to you All!

      When Freedom Calls;

    127. David says:

      Season’s Greetings, everyone!
      (The Undertones – “Here comes the summer”)

      Hey, it’s summer now in the southern hemisphere. 😉

    128. Clapper57 says:

      @ smallaxe

      Hi …what a sweetie you are……have a lovely Xmas.

      @ David

      Many thanks for responding to my …annoying…musical requests……have a fabby Xmas

    129. Liz g says:

      Sending my very best wishes to you and Mrs Smallaxe,I hope you have a wonderful time…. Stay well my dear friend and take good care of each other xxxx

    130. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Liz. Thank you, I hope that you and yours have a Peaceful and Loving festive season.

      The Pogues – Fairytale Of New York;

      Stop The Cavalry – Jona Lewie (An anti-war song for Christmas);

      Elmo & Patsy – Grandma Got Run over by a Reindeer;

    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      So it appears that Scotland’s judiciary are determined to make the Scottish legal system an international laughingstock. In my humble opinion, Scotland is extremely poorly served by its so-called legal experts. I’m frankly shocked at the lack of respect for natural law and natural justice, that appears to permeate the profession in Scotland.

      Justice and equality are achieved by locating the moral philosophy that corresponds coherently with empirical reality. Not by endorsing private language games invented in the minds of the clinically disordered.

      Sorry for the length of this post, but you can blame point 84 of the judgement. This judge is either a total clown, or an irascible misogynist. He’s only criminalised scientific discourse, ffs.


      ….Wittgenstein thought that the most important thing in the Tractatus was the notion of the inexpressible—the thought that metaphysics, ethics, religious belief, etc. go beyond what we can say. Like Duhem, he does not want to disparage what cannot be expressed by our language (Duhem would have said ‘by science’). Such matters are more elevated and more deserving of our respect than those mundane states of affairs which do admit of expression.

      But Wittgenstein quickly went on to abandon the view of meaning set out in the Tractatus.79 In the Philosophical Investigations, mostly completed by 1945 and published in 1953, we find him no longer with the view of language as a picture which touches reality. Language, rather, is an instrument which has a certain purpose or use, namely, communication. The meaning of an expression is its use and knowing the meaning of an expression is knowing how to use it in some particular ‘language game’.

      The later Wittgenstein’s emphasis is on what it is to understand a sentence. The view that he sees himself as opposing is the Augustinian view81 that ostensive definition fixes the meaning of a term and is thus the foundation of language. Such definitions, Wittgenstein suggests, are not enough to provide knowledge of meaning. If I try to explain the meaning of the word ‘tove’ by pointing at a pencil and uttering the word, my definition is open to a number of interpretations, such as tove meaning ‘pencil’, ‘round’, ‘wood’, ‘hard’, etc. (1958:2) One requires some background information in order to decide what other things, besides the pencil, one should call tove.

      Thus, an ‘ostensive definition explains the use—the meaning—of the word [only] when the overall role of the word in language is clear’.(30) Ostensive definition can succeed only when combined with a background of practices.(6, 30)

      In addition, Wittgenstein now wants to argue against the thought that simple statements express what is immediately given to us in experience and against the solipsism which seems to accompany this thought. We have seen that, since what is immediately given can only be understood by that to whom it is given, simple statements cannot be understood by anyone else. It is the possibility of such a private language that Wittgenstein argues against and it is here that verificationism crops up again.

      The argument turns on the thought that sense data do not meet the criteria of identity, which must be public or publicly verifiable. It is ironic that an argument against sense data results in a kind of verificationism, for we have seen and shall see again that the argument that sentences must be reduced to sense data is often a source of verificationism.

      Wittgenstein’s suggestion is that, because of the failure of the private naming ceremony to give a term meaning, the private linguist is in the position where whatever seems right to her is right. In that case, she loses her grip on the notions of correctness and incorrectness for the sentences in question. If, for instance, the private linguist claimsto be using the term ‘blue’ consistently, her only criterion for knowing that she is using it consistently is that it seems to her that that thing in front of her is the same colour as other things which she has called blue. But she cannot, Wittgenstein suggests, make sense of the thought that she is using the term consistently. It may seem to her that she is following a pattern, but in fact, she might be using the term in an arbitrary fashion. In Wittgenstein’s words: ‘Always get rid of the idea of the private object in this way: assume that it constantly changes, but that you do not notice the change because your memory constantly deceives you.’83

      ….Thus, Wittgenstein holds that the only way we can maintain the distinction between ‘seems right to me’ and ‘is right’ is by thinking about it as a matter of agreement within a speech community. Understanding or knowing the meaning of an expression is not a private internal matter. To say that P is a sentence in a private language is to say that there does not have to be any public consequences if P is true; P being true is something that is entirely a matter for the private linguist. But then ‘P seems right to me’ will always be a sufficient condition for ‘P is right’. There is nothing that would count as evidence for or against the private linguist’s claim that she is using a term in the same way or that she is picking out the same property by the term. Nothing would count as evidence to an observer and nothing would count as evidence to the speaker herself.

      So, if I am to have a grip on the distinction between ‘P seems right to me’ and ‘P is right’, there must be some consequences of P being right that are in principle ascertainable by someone other than myself. For if we have a grip on a distinction, we must be sometimes able to distinguish on the basis of it. By hypothesis, this possibility is closed to the private linguist. The fact that the private linguist does not have any way of using the distinction entails that there is, for the private linguist, no difference in the content in the things to be distinguished. That is, the private linguist will not be able to use the phrases ‘P is right’ and ‘P seems right to me’ in any ways in which their content is contrasted.

      Another way of putting the point is to say that if a person is not in a position to commit herself to anything about the way things would be different if a statement were true (or false) then it is quite obscure what reason either we have or she has for thinking that she understands it. For if a statement is about anything, one’s understanding it cannot merely be a matter of thinking that she knows what it means or of having a certain sort of image in her mind. If someone knows the meaning of P, she must be able to manifest knowledge of those consequences. It is not enough if she says that she knows the meaning of P because she can envision it or formulate it to herself. Understanding is not a mysterious state like that. It must be in part manifested by expecting experience to take a certain course.

      For ‘justification consists in appealing to something independent’(265, 378); it requires more than the feeling that one has correctly reidentified the property. Understanding involves practical abilities and they must be displayable in public.84

      [as such, the concept of “woman” is reducable to the conditions underwhich womanhood is verified through biology or behaviour that confirm woomanhood.]

      (sorry, lost my link and I’m away from Edinburgh)

    132. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      An interesting read, CamB.

      Onnyhoo… wasn’t on the Mac very much at all yesterday so Merry Christmas to ab’dee that hings oot here, specially you Smallaxe!

      A reprise of a wee bit of reggae for you…

    133. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And here’s the other slice of Scottish cross country dancing myoozack… from a prominent YESSER!

    134. CameronB Brodie says:

      This latest judgement will help to undermine the legal status of biological women, and should concern all those who support open democracy.

      Verifiability is a core principle of science


      Scientific knowledge is supposed to be verifiable. Replications promote verifiability in several ways. Most straightforwardly, replications can verify empirical claims. Replication research also promotes dissemination of information needed for other aspects of verification; creates meta-scientific knowledge about what results to treat as credible even in the absence of replications; and reinforces a broader norm of scientists checking each other’s work.

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Hi Brian. Sorry for going off on one, but when you understand this stuff, the nature of current events are just too much to handle. Democracy in Scotland is under serious threat from two cult like political movement. The auld enemy of British nationalism. And the party I’ve supported all my life, is endorsing the other one, i.e. gender ideology in law. I’m gutted, so I can imagine how those who have dedicated their lives to the party must feel.

      Understanding People: Normativity and Rationalizing Explanation
      Reviewed by Hallvard Lillehammer, King’s College, Cambridge University

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      Chapter 7 on Beliefs, might help folk understand the danger of magical thinking, and the threat that” pluralistic ignorance” presents to open society. It is certainly magical thinking to imagine humanity is not part of nature. But that is the logical commitment that one must make in order to support trans ideology, which insists the human condition is entirely the result of the will of man. Such a belief is not only unscientific, it is extremely environmental unfriendly, as it lacks proper respect for nature, or concern for humanity’s relationship with nature. It also means one has to reject the Biopsychosocial Model of Health, so makes one a political opponent of the World Health Organisation. Embarassing, much?

      Explaining Social Behavior: More Nuts and Bolts for the
      Social Sciences

      Chapter 7

      What Is It to ‘‘Believe’’ Something? To understand the role of beliefs in generating action, we have to understand their nature, their causes, and their consequences.

      ….In philosophical analyses, knowledge is usually defined as justified true belief, a belief that stands in a particular relation both to the world (it is true) and to the body of evidence the agent possesses (it is justified). Yet neither of these features of knowledge captures the subjective certainty that often underlies the phrase ‘‘I know’’ in ordinary discourse. This certainty is not simply the limit of 97% probability, 98%, 99%, 99.9%, and so forth. It is qualitatively different from anything short of certainty.2

      Biopsychosocial Model

      The Biopsychosocial Model 40 Years On

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m done but I’m not shitting folks about our judiciary.

      Conceptual Jurisprudence

    138. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Hope you are well friend. Good to see you posting again.

      I won’t pretend to have read the links you put up there but I’m familiar with some of the thinking that underpins it.

      FWIW, I believe we’re fortunate to live in a time when there are some seriously creative people who use whatever influence they have to get the message ‘out there’ as far as possible.

      And that ‘message’ isn’t a difficult one to understand – be ‘decent’ to other folk, don’t tolerate bullying, and hold to the belief that humanity trumps ideology.

      (Much much harder to persuade folk that being a selfish fucker is the way to go – Trump, Johnson et al may have the backing of powerful people/institutions, but they never sound convincing on anything even vaguely ‘ethical’.)

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Hi Ian. Thanks for taking an interest, that’s yourself and Brian already half way to understanding. I’m not really expecting folk to get stuck in to these links, though it would be great if some of our decision makers would. And you’re absolutely correct, respecting the relational autonomy of Others is not a particularly burdensome social skill, but it is sadly lacking sufficient encouragement in modern Britain.

      People generally want to be good and need to be seen to be good, but most folk don’t have an in-depth appreciation of what does and doesn’t constitute ethically moral social practice. That’s why British nationalism and woke liberalism appear more popular than they actually are. Both feeds on the power of pluralistic ignorance, encouraging inappropriate political correctness and social conformity beyond the point of reason and moral virtue. That’s why the law mustn’t cut itself off from ethical rationalism, as appears to be happening here in Scotland.

      Ethical Rationalism and the Law

    140. David says:

      RIP author and artist Alasdair Gray.
      Alasdair Gray interview – on painting and books” (3min 30sec)

    141. Macart says:

      I know I’ve been a bit out of it for a few months, but I see that the M/T is still a tad on the spicey side. 😎

      Onywise… All the best for the New Year Wingers. 🙂

    142. Clapper57 says:

      A Guid New Year to everyone…..

      Gonna stay off M/T for a wee while….or a long long time Lol

      Cannot be arsed ….hopefully that is not too NEGATIVE to say..Lol

      Hopefully next year will meet some wingers at some of the AUOB marches…….

      All the best….

    143. Marie Clark says:

      All the best for the new year folks.

      Clapper57, yes I agree with you, I’ve been off the MT for quite a while now, and it’s done me a world of good.

      Onyhoo, boots and Saltire ready for 11th January, batteries recharged and ready to go.

      Guid New Year to all of us, looks like it might be a busy one.

    144. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Hiya abody.

      Just a swift one to say HNY to youse all when it comes.

      Here’s a proper earworm to carry into 2020:

      Ian Brown, ‘First World Problems’ –

    145. Dan says:

      Aye, first world problems indeed Ian. Hopefully Scots can soon get over their F.E.A.R to use another Ian Browne song title.
      It has been a busy year but I’m seeing it out with a pint or twa.
      All the best to wingers, both posters and lurkers.
      If I survive the evening and a dook in the sea tomorrow I may return…

    146. Nana says:

      For all Wingers, a wee tune for when the bells ring at midnight.

      Slainte and may next year bring our dream of independence closer.

    147. William Wallace says:

      Happy new year to all the aff-topic crew. All the very best to all of you for 2020.

    148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Pasted from the main page…

      Ach well…
      I posted a couple of comments, just after midnight, here and in ‘off-topic’.

      Neither have appeared on the btl comments. I can only assume that is because I was posting from my phone, for the first time ever. The ‘off-topic’ comment was rejected as spam; the main page one went into moderation.

      Onnyhoo, a big HAPPY NEW YEAR to all Wingers I have eyeballed over the past 5 years or so, and also to those Wingers who have still to enjoy me eyeballing them.


    149. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Happy New Year mate, it doubt it will take you long to get your head around it. Anyhoo, one from the start of last decade that I think encapsulates the current state of British constitutionalism.

      Graveyard – Uncomfortably Numb

    150. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Back home from a rather excellent night in The Taxi Club, Dundee, with Amanda Brown, Brooke Coventry, Pete Scally and The Graham Brown Band.

      I posted this on my Facebook page the other day but I’ll repeat it here. Filmed in Camperdown Park, Dundee.

    151. yesbot says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      1 January, 2020 at 3:07 am
      Ach well…
      I posted a couple of comments, just after midnight, here and in ‘off-topic’.
      Neither have appeared on the btl comments.
      Same. Tried to make several comments on M/T and here over the past few days, none appeared.
      Have requested guidance from the powers that be..?
      Happy New year BDTT and all Wingers. So good to see auld names in reply to Ian’s post, wrote good stuff in appreciation but none of them appeared!

    152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      See you on the 11th, Yesbot?

      There will be a WOS stall at Glasgow Green.

      There’s wir hub…


    153. yesbot says:

      Hi BDTT

      Yes, definitely planning on the 11th.

      Also hoping some absolute miracle happens within SNP hierarchy! I know it’s probably a forlorn hope but, always the optimist…

      Look forward to seeing y’all @ WoS stall.

    154. Dan says:

      C’mon Scotland…This is Useless

      Well it’s about time
      It’s beginning to hurt
      Time you made up your mind
      Just what is it all worth

      All my useless advice
      All my hanging around
      All your cutting down to size
      All my bringing you down

      Watch the clock on the wall
      Feel the slowing of time
      Hear a voice in the hall
      Echoing in my mind

      All your stupid ideals
      Got your head in the clouds
      You should see how it feels
      With your feet on the ground

      Here I stand the accused
      With your fist in my face
      Feeling tired and bruised
      With the bitterest taste

    155. Dan says:

      Haha, the next suggested song for me from YT seems a peach for the times!
      Europe – The Final Countdown

      We’re leaving together,
      But still it’s farewell
      And maybe we’ll come back
      To earth, who can tell?
      I guess there is no one to blame (apart from the bastardin Tories)
      We’re leaving ground (leaving ground)
      Will things ever be the same again?
      It’s the final countdown
      The final countdown
      We’re heading for Venus (Venus)
      And still we stand tall
      ‘Cause maybe they’ve seen us (seen us)
      And welcome us all, yeah
      With so many light years to go
      And things to be found (to be found)
      I’m sure that we’ll all miss her so
      It’s the final countdown
      The final countdown
      The final countdown
      The final countdown
      The final countdown, oh
      It’s the final count down
      The final countdown
      The final countdown
      The final countdown
      It’s the final count down
      We’re leaving together
      The final count down
      We’ll all miss her so
      It’s the final countdown
      It’s the final countdown
      It’s the final countdown, yeah

    156. Dan says:

      After midnight so sneaking in a dance music banger from Glasgow’s excellent 23rd Precinct Records stable to noise the place up.
      Scotland had a great reputation in the house / clubbing scene during the late 80s and through the 90s for braw music and nights oot due to us aw being such friendly decent chiels.
      Big name DJs would always love coming to Scotland to play a set because the vibe here was so good.
      I recall heavy industrial techno DJ Steve Bicknell played in a function room upstairs in a hotel in Forfar in the early 90s. Can only wonder what the folk in the bar downstairs thought was going on above them! lol

      This one’s dedicated to GoJo Swineson from the good people of East Dunbartonshire.

      Mukkaa – Yurchucked

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      If I have to allow nationalism determine the potential life opportunities available to myself and my community, then I’d rather it was one that made me feel valued and respected as an equal, not disrespected and oppressed as an awkward and marginalised peripheral region of another nation. And with no hope for positive change or social justice.

      My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult – Do You Wanna Get Funky With Me

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      ….and marginalised inhabitant of a peripheral region

      The Brian Jonestown Massacre – My Mind Is Filled With Stuff

    159. Gary45% says:

      I have just watched a film, its called “War,Inc”.
      John Cusack is in it, if you wonder where Trump is getting his ideas from, have a look at it.
      The film is basically taking the piss out of American foreign policies, satirical with a serious message.
      HMV has it for £1.99.

    160. Macart says:

      @ BDTT

      Just caught up on the main thread.

      Sympathies and condolences for your loss.

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      One for our pal Rentoul, and all blind prostitutes of the world.

      My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult – Mystery Babylon

    162. Dan says:

      Oh noes. RIP Neil Peart of the band Rush.


      Time for Scotland to Roll the Bones

    163. Sarah says:

      @Ian Foulds:ALERT! your link shows your email address! You might want to cancel that link?

      By the way, Peat Worrier was rather against this crowdfunder as he thought the case wasn’t well-founded. It was on his twitter a while back.

    164. Ian Foulds says:

      Just back from the March and wish to thank profusely, the young family who had made glass beads wit Saltires inside and distributing them to the marchers,

      Your gesture was IMMENSE.

      Thank you,

    165. Sarah says:

      @Ian Foulds – did you see my comment above?

    166. Ian Foulds says:

      Sarah says:
      11 January, 2020 at 5:42 pm
      @Ian Foulds – did you see my comment above?

      Many many thanks.

      That is the trouble when one is not streetwise.

      The next challenge is rectifying it!!!

    167. Sarah says:

      Hi Ian – I am very familiar with that problem! Anything other than basic email is beyond me!

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      The British constitution is as much a statement of moral intent, as it is a document of law. Without moral justification, British constitutionalism turns to English despotism. Scotland’s cultural oppression will only intensify, without proper respect for the moral law justification of the British constitution.

      KMFDM – Bait And Switch

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for getting hyper-geeky but I don’t know how much longer I’m staying in Dundee and I’ve nailed the gender debate. OK, I haven’t but I’ve managed to track down a couple of dudes who have. I’m frankly stunned at the inability of contemporary academia to translate this insight into publicly available knowledge. That must be the effect of the “performative” turn in social science, which relegated the significance of empirical reality to the significance ascribed to the realm of emotions. That’s the day post-structuralism almost broke the human capacity for practical reason, which some of us are still trying to fix.

      I don’t know if anyone remembers me banging on about Heidegger. Well he’s kind of important in terms of how we understand being, reality, science, philosophy, politics, political difference, and stuff. Here he explains why a post-foundationalist epistemology is preferable to an anti-foundationalist epistemology, which is demanded by gender-ideology.

      Heidegger, Left and Right:
      Differential Political Ontology and Fundamental Political Ontology Compared

      Understanding Post-Foundationalism: The Importance and Perils of Giving Ground to the Groundless

      I’ve also mentioned phenomenology before, so you should already be up to speed with your philosophical inquiry of human conciseness and being. Well I couldn’t link to this until I’d tracked down Heidegger’s inquiry of political ontology, but my philosophical anthropology is rusty. Mkay! Mkay?

      A Phenomenology of Sexual Difference: Types, Styles and Persons

      Stereolab – The Noise of Carpet

    170. CameronB Brodie says:

      And as that is most probably meaningless wonk-speak to most folk, here something that might help folk understand why post-foundationalism is vital to open democracy.

      Anti-foundational epistemology provides the conditions for totalitarianism.

      postfoundationalism and social democracy

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      Obviously Brexit can’t be considered compatible with social democracy. I can’t believe I’m posting this but I am.

      What is Social Democracy?

    172. Dan says:

      Test as post held in moderation on main thread.

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      Might be a filtered word in the text (see combinations of N, F and L and possibly other combinations of letters from the alphabet. Or words like tr4tor, r4pe, and stuff that makes sense but I can’t explain. A bit like the meaning of life. 🙂

    174. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve not broken the chitchat and choons again, have I? Never let the bastards get you down. Here’s it tip to follow, if you’re a fan of ethical reason and constitutional justice that is.

      Slade – Run Runaway

    175. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      An iconic choon, from 1968…

    176. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A wee rant…

      When I was being trained as a TV maintenance guy in the early 70s, it was pointed out that ITV broadcasted their PROGRAMMES at 70% of the available audio level, whilst the adverts were transmitted at 100%.

      This was designed to give the adverts more audible impact.

      They’re still at it! I have “National Lampoon’s European Vacation” (ITV4) on as my background noise and had to turn up the volume to hitherto unprecedented levels to hear the dialogue.

      When the ad break came, my ears were assaulted! ITV4 seem to be working on 50-60% of max for the programmes and 100% for the ads.

      Come the revolution…

    177. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      BTW: if you like dipping into ‘off-topic’ or ‘Quarantine’;
      next time you submit a comment, tick the box beside where it has “Notify me of new posts by email” and you’ll get an email whenever a new comment is posted.

      You’ll miss nuhin’ that wye…

    178. William Wallace says:

      @ BDTT

      It’s not that the volumes differ as such. The DB levels are essentially the same. It’s known in the industry as compression. Certain parts of the audible frequency range are raised and more pronounced.

      I used to use the same technique a lot in dance music production to make a particular channel more prominent.

      It worked very well with bass lines etc to make them more prominent (hit you in the gut style) in the overall mix.

      Often this would be combined with “ducking” or sidechain compression to allow the thwump of the kick drum to come to the fore too allowing for punchy drums and deep wobbly bass.

      If you were to plug in a db meter to your audio output jack on the tv you would notice that the signal remains largely the same.

      Still annoying though. I’ve not watched telly in years as I can’t stand the constant interruption.

    179. Clapper57 says:

      Looking on the M/T I see we have another ‘vis-idiot-tor’…giving us his/her words of his/her perceived wisdom…

      There is, it seems, a revolving door to this site for pompous, conflated egos, argumentative and insulting twats …and as one leaves…another one enters…they think they are being original in coming here and telling us what’s what….like we have NEVER had ANYONE like them before with the exact same attitude, same arguments indeed the exact modus operandi used to force their opinion upon other users and a also force a reaction….it has become tiring and as per usual lacks subtlety and originality..

      Almond Chutney….best served in an Indian recipe as opposed to the tripe he/she via their chosen handle is serving up here.

      0/10 for trying…in fact like all the others he/she is VERY trying…and trying TOO hard….perhaps he/she should TRY harder at not being an idiot….maybe give their nearest and dearest a piece of their mind as opposed to boring others , who neither want nor care what they think, on this site….

      God is there no place where C**ts will not go…..obviously not.

      #MakeThisaC**tFreeSite….I wish…Lol

    180. Dan says:


      Almonds are toxic in large amounts and in more ways than one!

      Oor Breeks produced a belter of response early on and basically crushed the individual into marzipan rather than chutney. lol

      This seems appropriate tuneage for the times…

      Shed Seven – Chasing Rainbows

    181. Ian Foulds says:

      If Gibraltar is thinking of joining Schengen, why is Scotland not?

      Do we not have the power!!!

      What are the advantages (apart from annoying Westminster)?

      What are the disadvantages?


    182. Clapper57 says:

      @ Dan @ 8.37pm on 20 January

      Unfortunately…Chutney is back on the menu…via M/T……surely we have bigger fish to fry…..AND surely there is better ways to SPICE things up on here than messing about with Almond Chutney….Lol

      Hope you are well Dan…have a great evening

    183. Dan says:


      I made loads of chutney last year from the marrows, onions and tomatoes I grew so have no need for that buffoon’s nutty confiture on main thread.
      I’m no fan of marzipan but still having to endure almonds as I work my way through all these fuckin Toblerones I got for crimbo.

      I’m having a braw entertaining evening watching a new sport I hadn’t seen before.
      As if freestyle skating wasn’t hard enough they’ve incorporated it into slalom.
      Couple of 2 min vids of kids bustin their moves.

    184. Cactus says:

      Hey Wingers, popping in to say hey, cheers everybuddy y’all.

    185. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hi, Cactus: LTNS.

      I’m sending you and the other O/T Krew this earworm for you to enjoy.

      Hope you are well.

    186. Tinto Chiel says:

      Greetings, mon vieux haricot: LTNS.

      I’m sending you and the other O/T Krew this earworm for you to enjoy.

      Hope you are well.

    187. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus! I was just thinking about you and I popped in to off topic – I rarely do – and there you are!

      Hope all is well and you are enjoying life to the full!

    188. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Ken whuh’?

      Eh’m gittin’ pee’d aff at Twitter forcing the mobile version of their pages onto my MacPro at home.

      Does the desktop version embarrass them?

    189. William Wallace says:

      Eh love being dingied iy. The classic Pfft fae BDTT there. Message received. 😉

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      William Wallace
      I think you’ve been dingied enough. 🙂

      Right, I’ve decided to stay in Dundee for the big announcement, so that gives me a chance to properly critique the insidiously beguiling, outwardly benign, and politically dis-empowering, qualities of contemporary British constitutionalism. And all the media support it requires in order to promote and maintain its’ public acceptance.

      The Brian Jonestown Massacre – Pish

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’m guessing the ‘Friends of WOS’ stall will be at Arbroath on 4th April.

      What about Stornoway on 18th April? Would be nice to have a “hub’ on that day.

    192. William Wallace says:

      Ken what Brian – Instead of ignoring me like I don’t exist just tell me to fuck off and not to talk to you. I’d respect that a bit more than this “I’m better than you and you are not worthy of a response” approach. No man (or woman for that matter) is beneath a response. Away and fuck yourself iy.

    193. Sarah says:

      C’mon guys – cheer yourselves up by reading Craig Murray’s blog today. Or look over on M/T for two recent comments about it.

      It really does look hopeful.

    194. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi William Wallace.

      RE: your comment, “Eh love being dingied iy. The classic Pfft fae BDTT there. Message received. ?” of 28th Jan.

      I didn’t understand it so couldn’t reply to it. What was “The classic Pfft fae BDTT there”?

    195. William Wallace says:

      To be fair you completely ignored the previous comment too.

      “Pfft” = “used to express a contemptuous or dismissive attitude”

      Perhaps I was wrong to tell you to away and fuck yourself so apologies for that. It wasn’t the best of weeks last week. The rest of what I said still stands however.

      I’m perfectly fine with the fact you might not want me to engage with you but, instead of being ignorant just be forthright about it. A simple fuck off and don’t talk to me will do. I’ll know where I stand then and won’t bother engaging with you again in the future.

      Anyway, peace and out.

    196. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi William Wallace.

      I didn’t ignore your previous comment – I read it. Didn’t have anything to add, as I didn’t fully grasp what the statement, “Often this would be combined with “ducking” or sidechain compression to allow the thwump of the kick drum to come to the fore too allowing for punchy drums and deep wobbly bass.

      If you were to plug in a db meter to your audio output jack on the tv you would notice that the signal remains largely the same.” had to do with a reduction in audio modulation level during programmes on ITV.

      My TV & Radio instructor told us that the BBC transmitted audio at 100% max modulation, whereas ITV transmitted programmes at 70% modulation and ad breaks at 100%. (This was in the early 70s, when there was only BBC and ITV.)

      Perhaps he was over-simplifying. Your further remarks caused me to Google. I found this:
      “Sudden differences in loudness between – and even within – radio and television programmes have been well known for a long time. With the more-recent introduction of digital techniques, combined with the parallel transmission of digital and analogue broadcasts, this problem is again becoming highly significant.
      This article presents some solutions for avoiding loudness differences in radio and television broadcasting, based on levelling recommendations and a newly-developed loudness algorithm.

      Listeners and viewers are becoming increasingly concerned over sudden variations in programme loudness. These loudness “jumps” are most apparent when zapping through European DVB television and radio channels.
      The loudness differences between film dialogues and highly-compressed commercial breaks (adverts) are perceived as being particularly jarring. Both under-levelling and over-levelling can be observed, resulting in level differences of more than 15 dB”

      As I mentioned, I was told about the 70%/100% during my training. You’ve mentioned compression and the authors at the link have mentioned it. Obviously, there’s more to it than the 70%/100% simplification. Maybe that was the final effect of compression, described by my instructor in a more easily understood format.

      I meant no slight by not responding. In fact, I have posted many comments without response on WOS. I don’t feel slighted; it’s the way of the web. Things move on; online conversations are replaced by others. If you felt slighted, I can only apologise.

      (BTW: took me ages to put this comment together because, when I copied and pasted from the pdf, the formatting was crap. Had to remove umpteen double and treble spaces between words, and correct punctuation.)

    197. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian Brotherhood (coz you’re “the man”!)

      Howzabout a ‘Friends of WOS’ get-together in Dow’s on Saturday, 2nd May, after the Glasgow march and rally?

      (Asking for a friend…)

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      “BTW: took me ages to put this comment together because…”

      You’ll understand what I’ve been dealing with then. 🙂

    199. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CamB.

      Ken whuh’ yi mean, iye?

    200. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Hi B, sorry for slowness, had an early night last night.

      Sounds good, aye, I’ll give them a call later, see if it’s free. From mid-afternoon, as before?

      Will get back to you in here.



    201. Ian Brotherhood says:

      BDTT –

      Just called them.

      Yes, it’s available that day.

      Haven’t booked – will wait to see what others are saying. I don’t really have time to chase abody up right now but if word gets out then that’s a start. I’ll tell Ruglonian/Jock and Oatcakes. If you could do Ronnie etc that’ll give us an idea of what interest there is.

      Let’s keep in touch here so that others can see what’s happening.

      Hoots for now bro,


    202. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      I would book it! Unless the weather is really nasty that day, there should be a rally after the march, I’m guessing at Glasgow Green.
      Depending on the number of speakers and ‘turns’, the rally could go on until around 5. It would be bra’ if the march actually terminated at George Square and the rally was there but I have no input to AUOB’s thoughts.
      Could be an idea too for Dow’s to allow us to leave stuff at the function room and, maybe indicate that we’ll need the bar staffed from around 4pm onwards.
      You’ve done it before – just get on with it!


    203. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Oh – and ask Dow’s to ensure that the bogs are in fully working order; ie, hand driers, hand towels and bog paper…

    204. Tinto Chiel says:

      Evening, Poindexters.

      While The Rev is off bear hunting for a while, may I spin these platters so he can’t stop me?

      Hard to believe a few white boys could give Aretha Franklin a run for her money:

      At the other end of the spectrum emotionally and somewhat autumnal but you can’t have everything:

    205. CameronB Brodie says:

      If Scotland didn’t have so many armchair ‘experts’ who clearly lack an ethical appreciation of the law, Scotland would not be under the heel of an English jackboot.

      Meditation on ‘Blind Minotaur Being Led by a Girl’ (1934-35) by Pablo Picasso

    206. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      I’ll book it later then.

    207. Ian Brotherhood says:

      That’s Dows booked. May 2nd.

      Details to follow as and when…


    208. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Well done that man!


    209. Dan says:

      This tune seems somewhat appropriate for the time as the two Kingdoms seem so hell bent on trashing themselves with muchos crazy behaviour.

      John Prine – That’s How Every Empire Falls

    210. Dan says:

      Ma woodburner’s got a richt braw draw goin wi these gales.
      Being big on health and safety am ballasting masel doon wi’ beer to mak sure I dinnae blow away.

      Dougie MacLean – Ready for The Storm

    211. Smallaxe says:


      Hi, Sam, I’ve just seen your kind words to me on the M/T. I believe that you haven’t had your sorrows to seek lately either so thank’s for taking the time to ask after me.

      I hope things are going better for you now, my friend.
      Peace, Love and good health to you and yours

      Thankfully, we’re not the only dreamers, Sam;


    212. Smallaxe says:

      Let’s ‘Get it Right Next Time’;

      Got it?

    213. Smallaxe says:

      Stay away from these people;


    214. Dan says:

      It’d be braw if Scotland could choose our own path and be free of the skip fire of Westminster’s policies.
      For some there’s a Rush, for others Time Stands Still

    215. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Smallaxe.


      Have you ever come across this?

    216. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Brian.

      Thank’s for reminding me about that version I’d forgotten all about it.

      John Prine: That’s How Every Empire Falls;

      ‘“When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humour.”
      ‘John Lennon’

    217. Macart says:

      @ Smallaxe

      Now that takes me back.

      Many thanks and much appreciated. As for me? Well… 🙂

    218. Macart says:

      Whoa! 😯 Just took a swatch at the MT. You can see why folk are currently turning off from commenting. BTL ain’t for the faint of heart. That’s a bit of anger and ill feeling doing the rounds right there.

      There’s not so many friendly folk out in the world tbs about now, and those that are left? They’re being turned off political engagement and/or turned upon rapidly. That’s a lot of frightened and/or angry people by the by.

      And THAT truly is a sad thing.

    219. chasanderson200 says:

      Ian B
      Put me down as definite for a wee sesh in Dows. Just going to speak to Premier Inn now. See you in Dows.

    220. William Wallace says:


      You quoted the remainder of my comment but did not mention the opening paragraph (listed below). You understood the first paragraph though right? That was directly related to the loudness of TV adverts. The passage you quoted was me trying (unsuccessfully) to give you an audible example in written form.

      “It’s not that the volumes differ as such. The DB levels are essentially the same. It’s known in the industry as compression. Certain parts of the audible frequency range are raised and more pronounced.”

      Anyway, no need to apologise. I was not slighted by it. I may have been more than a wee bit pissed off following NS speech around the same time and responded more sharply than was necessary. I can only apologise for the “away and fuck yourself” comment.

      I simply felt that if you were intent on ignoring me then I was going to call you out on it and ask you to at least be upfront about it by telling me to fuck off and not converse with you instead. I don’t mind if that’s how you feel and would rather you were direct about it. I mean you’re a fellow Dundonian ffs. It’s not like we are not known for being direct.

      I get tired of the “club” attitude of some people on here. People who refer to “real wingers” etc and drop wee “in jokes” to show just how valid their club membership is. I’ve seen it in other groups often enough and we are supposed to be a welcoming and inclusive movement generally.

      Granted I’ve hardly endeared myself to some here given my drunken antics in the silly hours but, you never know what a person is going through at the time and there can often be quite severe underlying reasons for their current patterns of behaviour.

      Getting to know and understand someone (albeit difficult via web based interactions) will oft reveal someone who is the polar opposite of the person you perceived them to be. I like to keep an open mind and I am never quick to judge.

      Yes I have played the drunken fool and yes sometimes, I am a bit hotheaded and outspoken but, underneath all that is a human being with a lot of love, compassion, sensitivity and kindness to offer. Whether others see that or not is not something I can control but, anyone who stands in judgement or deems me unworthy of a response is not worth knowing anyway. It probably says more about them than it does me to be perfectly frank.

      Again, apologies for telling you to “away and fuck yourself”. It was uncalled for and unnecessary.

    221. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi William Wallace.

      Apology accepted.

      I think I did address the compression thingy…

      “As I mentioned, I was told about the 70%/100% during my training. You’ve mentioned compression and the authors at the link have mentioned it. Obviously, there’s more to it than the 70%/100% simplification. Maybe that was the final effect of compression, described by my instructor in a more easily understood format.”

    222. David says:

      What should we do to the Herald?
      “Shut it Down! Shut it Down Forever!” (from ‘Dark City’)

    223. David says:

      Or, we could…
      “Nuke the entire site from orbit, It’s the only way to be sure.” (from ‘Aliens’)
      Harsh but fair.

    224. David says:

      On a slightly calmer note from Orange Juice:
      “Rip It Up (And Start Again)”

    225. David says:

      A practical use for your old newspapers:
      ‘DIY Recycled Newspaper Basket/Box – Super Easy Tutorial’ (6 minutes)
      “Don’t throw away newspapers! Don’t just pile them up somewhere in your house!!! You can use them in many different ways…”

    226. chasanderson200 says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      – Dows 2nd May get together. Any further info or update on this soiree?
      Got my accommodations sorted but still to sort my options for transport.

    227. CameronB Brodie says:

      I had hoped that Scotland might find some political leadership capable of defending my human rights from Engliah fascism, but it looks like Scotland has to rely on woke-nats and a judiciery that appears keen to introduce anti-foundationalist epistemology into Scottish legal reason. As such, residents of Scotland must rely on those who appear to reject “natural law”, and the role it plays in providing the potential for constitutional justice, to defend their legal identity and legal rights, from the cultural excesses of English Torydum. That’s called ‘getting pumped from both ends’, in legal parlance.

      Natural Law and the Nature of Law

      Butthole Surfers – Jingle of a Dog’s Collar

    228. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I’ll do my best to get along to Dows on the 2nd May.

      The State and Civil Society
      Political community and individual freedom in Hegel’s philosophy of state

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.P.S. Here’s one for folk who would never consider clinking a link that has anything to do with Marxism. Even if they feel threatened by Brexit. Which certainly threatens me, but then I’m a bit of an ethical rationalist and generally oppose political authoritarianism grounded in racism

      Btw, does anyone know if the Church of Scottland was still happily wedded to ‘white’ British nationalism.

      Creating Justice in an emerging world the natural Law basis of francisco de vitoria’s political and international thought


      This article outlines Francisco de Vitoria’s conception of natural law and natural right in an effort to amend a number of interpretations in the academic literature on his political and international thought that misapprehend Vitoria’s naturalism. In this view, his use of the Thomist doctrine of natural law and justice lays the foundation for his works on politics, society and international relations since the doctrine itself espouses equality and justice both within the domestic realm and between discrete communities.

      In an implicit appeal to the link between ethics and politics, his doctrine of natural law, moreover, fulfills a critical and constitutional role by designating justice and the common good as a pattern of order to which power and authority must conform in order to be legitimate.

      Key words:
      F. de Vitoria; international relations; justice; natural right; power

    230. K1 says:

      Hi folks, I’ve being doing a bit of research over the past week or so wrt the corona stuff.

      Friend suggested these vids by a DR John Campbell, he’s been doing an almost daily you tube vid since Jan when it started. He has general as well as specific advice to help people understand clearly and concisely what has been occurring, he has many contacts all over who are writing to him about what is happening in various countries too.

      I’m going to post this one from a few days ago about Vit D:

      If people are interested in getting some Vit D after watching this video, instead of going to shops, order some from amazon, the only one I can recommend is this, as it’s small tablets (I can’t swallow larger ones), a years supply for £11.99. Good reviews and good questions answered.

    231. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s a bit more perspective on the corona virus, from the Harvard School of Public Health and the World Health Organisation. It is important that folk keep the head and don’t allow how they distance themselves from risk, to distance them from their humanity and capacity for empathic reason. Social cohesion is already at breaking point in contemporary Britain, IMHO.

      Infection from those not displaying symptoms, appears to be extremly rare.

      The latest on the coronavirus

      Novel Coronavirus(2019-nCoV)
      Situation Report – 12

    232. K1 says:

      Your second link is old information from the 1st of Feb, Cam.

      There is asymptomatic transmission, this is why we are where we are.

    233. David says:

      Alice Cooper – School’s Out (1972)

    234. David says:

      Madness – Baggy Trousers (1980) FFS FORTY YEARS AGO!

    235. David says:

      The Police – Don’t Stand So Close To Me (1980)

    236. David says:

      AC/DC Can I Sit Next To You Girl (1974)

      Aye orrite but not too close in case I get Corona’d…

    237. Liz g says:

      Hoping that all my Lovely Crazy Winger Friends and their ain freens and fame,ilay are staying healthy and safe…

      Aye, we’re Aw looking at you Smallaxe espically…

      It’s lucky for you we trust Mrs Smallaxe to have ye behave … Otherwise!!! 🙂
      Seriously though….all my best to you and yours from me and mine XXX

      The the same for all the other’s….. Please look after yerselves…by order, 🙂 and do shout up if ye think anyone here can help 🙂

    238. Dan says:

      Was at my mate’s garage the other day.
      They have one of those Alexa things for the craic.
      I asked “Play 90s House music” and it played this. Think she was taking the piss tbh…

      Corona – Try Me Out

    239. Macart says:

      Some good news to come home to tonight on MT.

      We could certainly use some about now. Just look after yourselves folks.

      A big shout out to Mr and Mrs Smallaxe. 🙂

    240. David says:

      For Mr Salmond:
      The Soup Dragons – “I’m Free”

    241. David says:

      From one Alex to another:
      The Sensational Alex Harvey Band – “Framed” [1972]

      I’m walking down the street mindin’ my own affair
      When two policemen grabbed me and I’m unaware
      They said “Is your name Alexander?” and I said “Why, sure!”
      They said “You’re the cat that we’ve been looking for.”

    242. David says:

      I knew I was the victim of somebody’s evil plan
      When some stool pigeons on WhatsApp said
      “There’s your man!”

      Then the public prosecutor started prosecutin’ me
      That ‘pprentice man wanted to find what was my pedigree
      He said “Where were you in December 2010 or December 2011?”
      Then them cats with their rubber hoses turned the inquisition up to eleven

      But I was framed, framed
      I was framed, framed
      I was framed, framed
      I never did nothing
      But I was framed, framed, framed
      Oh yes, oh yes.

      (Statement from the falsely accused in this month’s trial…)


    243. David says:

      “The truth shall set you free.”
      The Who – I’m Free

    244. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for the correction. I’m certainly no expert in public health, so I thought long and hard before posting. What tipped my hand was that Brexit has clearly shown us that Westminster has no respect for the rule of law, or the principle of universal human rights. As such, it is simply not rational to rely on Westminster, or the corporate press and media, for the truth.

      Brexit denies Scots have a legally defensible identity, so from the perspective of critical legal theory, Westminster does not regard those living in Scotland as possessing legal rights.

      The legitimate authority of international human rights
      On the reciprocal legitimation of domestic
      and international human rights

    245. CameronB Brodie says:

      I am in no way trying to deny the gravity of the health crises we face, I’m simply trying to remind folks that the current Tory government appear happy to use an anti-foundational interpretation of constitutional law, as a means of social and political control. As such, trusting them jars with a critical consciousness and a respect for natural law. I hope Her Majesty’s opposition are up to the task of keeping the government honest. Silly me, they appear as keen to treat Scots as sub-human, as the Tories.

      Both Brexit and the introduction of gender ideology into law, dislocates the law from empirical reality, and undermine the potential for justice to occur.


    246. CameronB Brodie says:

      And I’ll finish with one for those who do not recognise the injustice of either Brexit, or the introduction of gender ideology into law.

      Ontology and Epistemology in Legal Knowledge Engineering

      For optimum use in legal knowledge engineering, legal ontologies have to be understood in relation to legal epistemologies. The relationship between legal ontology and legal epistemology is examined in the light of the requirement for epistemological adequacy posed by McCarthy and Hayes and specified by Reichgelt, and in the light of epistemological soundness achieved in the eGanges project by using a meta-epistemological methodology in which legal ontology is located; eGanges is a new generation smart, user-friendly expert system shell that is cost-effective.

      Some of the legal ontology of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, known as the Vienna Convention, is shown governed by the epistemology of eGanges, to demonstrate the relationship between legal ontology and legal epistemology. When ontology and epistemology are used in relation to each other as legal knowledge engineering methodology, the technology brings new clarity to redefine these major metaphysical concepts.

      abductive legal reasoning, computational domain epistemology, deductive legal reasoning, epistemological adequacy, generic legal reasoning, inductive legal reasoning, interactive visualisation, interface, legal epistemology, legal logic, navigation, legal ontology, rule maps, transparency, user-friendliness.

    247. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, here’s a better one for folk who want to understand epistemology and the role that it plays in enabling justice.

      Epistemology And Knowledge Management Concepts And Practices

    248. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry if I broke the chit-chat and tunes again.

      FuChip Taylor & The New Ukrainians – Fuck All The Perfect People

    249. David says:

      🙂 Inspired by CameronB:

      Jason Derulo – “Let’s Shut Up & Dance”

    250. David says:

      P.S. Keep on posting, CameronB, the wordy stuff as well as the songs!

      Tom Lehrer – The Elements Song:

    251. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      If we’re on a “dancing” theme, I gotta cite this.

      I bought the 7″ single on first hearing, having never heard of the band. Got hold of the full 12″ version a few weeks later and it put the 7″ into the shade.

      I believe it was their first single and shows their prowess, before they became a tad more ‘poppy’, which brought them hits. The first link below is essentially the 12″ version.

      Actually, gonna do the “dancing” one, followed by a follow-up that wasn’t a hit either, and its B side, which was a fun track, that went down well with my student audience.

      They were a fine band.

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      Will do, if only to get under the skin of those who continue to support the illiberal authoritarianism that British constitutionalism has evolved in to.

      Scottish nationalism is supportive of multiculturalism, English.British nationalism, not so much. Remember, Brexit is most strongly supported by those affected by right-wing authoritarianism and social dominance orientation. Brexitania has been created to accommodate English Torydum and English/British xenophobia.

      Anyone know if the Church of Scotland endorses Natural Law, or do they still view themselves as agents of English Torydum?

      Fatboy Slim – Don’t Let The Man Get You Down

    253. Cactus says:

      Hey Wingers all howde do, hope you’re all standing strong. Yeah, things have been turned upside-down right now and our quest for independence – via the referendum method that is – has been put back indefinitely to at the very least next year (though other methods are available if chosen, like beginning the sovereign recognition process.)

      SO due to current circumstances, I guess this is the time where we have to spend our times creatively and productively with regards to indy – whatever form and format that takes – before all restrictions of freedom are removed and returned to the people.

      Will the Dow’s meet-up be possible on the 02/05/20, probably not, if not, then let’s mark it by way of doing something different, get some other online ideas going, be creative.

      April should be a ‘lively’ month… hopefully.

    254. Macart says:

      Neatly done and well said by the Rev over on MT.

      Jeez! A week of self isolation so far and I’m looking at getting busy in the back yard. That wouldn’t normally be so bad… except the bloody thing is actually a forest. (sigh)

      Be safe folks.

    255. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Chas Anderson (March 9th) –

      So sorry Chas, I haven’t been in here for ages.

      Short answer – no idea. I’ll call them but can’t see anyone being there. Will be sure to report back as soon as I find out. Way things are looking it’s not good.


    256. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cactus –

      Hoots mon!


    257. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi IanB.

      Next time you comment in ‘off-topic’, tick the box below the “Submit Comment” button, that says “Notify me of new posts by email”, then you’ll get an email whenever a new comment appears here. It’s awffie handy!

    258. Brian Doonthetoon says:


      I’m waiting for the Rennie Mackintosh Hotel to announce they’re closed, so I can reschedule for later in the year. (Non-refundable payment.)

    259. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Cheers, I will do so in future.

      Have been coming here so long now, almost completely blind to the features I don’t actually use. I couldn’t even begin to guess who’s on the featured blogs list nowadays, for example.


    260. Ruglonian says:

      Hey folks! (and howde Cactus)

      Think I’m going to hang out here a bit more often now – twitter is pretty mental right now and everyone’s only going to get more angsty as this crisis develops further!!

      Hope everyone’s keeping well, with fully stocked cupboards, and enjoying their state-sanctioned walks 😮

    261. David says:

      RIP Alan Merrill.
      “The co-writer and original singer of I Love Rock ‘N’ Roll, Alan Merrill, has died after contracting coronavirus.”

      Here’s the Joan Jett version:

      And here’s the original by Arrows, “I Love Rock N Roll” featuring lead singer Alan Merrill:

    262. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cactus!

      Good to read from you!

      Hi David.

      I was aware of the two versions. A lot of that went on in the 70s. Remember Slik’s biggest hit? What about this original version? (Read the comment below the video.)

    263. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And what about these two?

      (The second was a BCR B-side.)

    264. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, Old Names gathered around the camp fire.

      “State sanctioned walks” indeed.

      I don’t know what worries me more, the virus or the Coronavirus Act, which hands the powers of martial law to a hopelessly corrupt and venal Tory government. Add that to my concerns for our host here and Craig Murray as the only journalists investigating the Alex Salmond stitch-up properly (amongst others), and this wee story came to what I laughingly call my mind:

      Do have nightmares.

    265. Dan says:


    266. Tinto Chiel says:

      For those of us immured with our Loved Ones, may I commend the sentiments of this poet:

      Old Romantic, me……

    267. Tinto Chiel says:

      Man casts doubt on MSM narratives:

      Forty years on and bang up to date…

    268. David says:

      Anyone else losing track of the days, not sure if today is Pastaday or Couchday or Aarghday or what…
      Anyway, ta all for the music, especially CamB, Brian DtheT, and Tinto Chiel.
      Brian, I mostly remember the likes of Slik, Arrows, Pilot, and yes, Flintlock (!) from the pages of Look-In, the weekly ‘Junior TV Times’.

      Have to say I do link Slik with ‘Forever and Ever’. On the other hand I can remember most of the words to “The Bump”, but I don’t associate it with one particular band!

      Similar situation to the big band era, when popular songs were covered by many different bands and singers? Easier to do, when songwriters were separate and independent from the bands.

      Time to update ‘The Bump’ and call it ‘The Elbow Bump’ now, perhaps. 🙂

      Here’s another slice of classic 70s, Racey singing “Some Girls”:

      PS Wikipedia informs me that Racey’s song “Kitty” was an international hit in 1981 for Toni Basil when she reworked it into “Hey Mickey”!



      ‘There is nothing new under the sun.’ 🙂

    269. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi David.

      Didn’t know about Kitty!

      Here are another three from the 70s that I bought and still have. None of them were hits as far as I know but decent tracks all the same.

    270. Clapper57 says:

      There is an individual on M/T who has become like a stuck record.

      I think somewhere there must be a sandwich board short of a wearer that may sate their appetite to spout their message…of hate…..for everyone and everything…Lol

      Hope everyone is well and finding things to occupy themselves with.My hubby and I are playing guitar together, reading, watching DVD’s, going for walks, Skype son who is in Dublin, spring cleaning whole house,playing CD’s not listened to for a while, only go shopping once a week, reading various Twitter a/c’s and also WOS site (only me) ,phoning family and friends for a chat and a laugh, emailing friends outwith Edinburgh, hubby is part of a WhatsApp group with his friends and is being driven mental by constant funny pictures sent by others in group…so much so that he has taken to leaving phone in a different room from him Lol and we are also having a few good chinwags with each other…though that may be an ‘ordeal’ for hubby…is for me Lol.

      Stay safe everyone

    271. Tinto Chiel says:

      @David: are you still in Brazil? If so, how are things?

    272. David says:

      Hello Tinto, or as we brasileiros say, ‘coe, mermao, tudo bem…’

      Things are, well, they’re even more ‘complicado’ than usual.
      I’ve been glued to Twitter for weeks, getting info on Scottish, UK, and world reactions to coronavirus (CV). So it was easy to predict what would happen in Brazil, but it took a while to make my wife understand that people here would also panic buy, and that we needed to buy more than a week’s supply of toilet paper, etc, at a time. I think she only really understood when our regular supermarket had less bread than usual, and the price of what they did have had gone up.

      Friday 20th March it hit home to me, when I saw one of the delivery drivers for a medical supply office in our street was wearing a full body coverall with hood and masks. Up to them our attitude was still a bit jokey, but seeing a hazmat suit IN OUR STREET was a real wake-up call.

      Since then our household has been self-isolating rather strictly. Three people, one dog, and one cat. My wife goes out once a week to buy groceries, and it frightens her to do it. It frightens me too, to have to let her do it. It’s having an invisible enemy, something you know is threatening you 24/7, which wears you own. You can’t fight it, only take countermeasures.

      I’ve got asthma, and I’ve had pneumonia, so I don’t want Covid messing with my lungs. My daughter has lupus and so she is in the at-risk category. My wife and I worry about bringing the illness home to her.

      My wife does the shopping because she doesn’t trust me to do it with enough attention to hygiene, I think. Hmm.

      I went to the corner shop/bakery last Saturday, wearing mask and gloves. Shop was not allowing customers inside, but serving them over a makeshift counter at the entrance. I was shaken by other customers not keeping a meter apart, and not wearing masks. FFS people, waken up! Most of the staff had on masks, so well done them.

      More generally, most buse lines have been shut down. There are none now running from here in Niteroi to Rio de Janeiro. The ferry to Rio is still operating, but it is very busy and passengers can’t keep safe distances from each other – this is bound to spread CV. More later.

    273. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yes, it’s a worry: there’s been asthma and pneumonia in our family too and the last thing you want to do is to bring it home to them.The only good thing seems to be that babies, toddlers and children don’t seem susceptible to the disease. We drew up the drawbridge here 13 days ago after our last baby-minding day and we miss her terribly. You can’t cuddle on the internet.

      I wondered what the numbers for infection and mortality were in Brazil at the moment and what sorts of measures the Latin Trump was enforcing?

      Hope you and all the family stay healthy and *whispers* your wife is probably right re hygiene. I get the same spiel here.

    274. Cactus says:

      SO tomorrow was surposed to be Scotland’s Declaration of Arbroath 700th anniversary gig… the 4th of April (anent 6/4/20), that was the first time many of us met together in the Counting House that evening on 4th April 2014.

      How are we going to mark tomorrow… it’s a special day in more ways than one, have an excellent weekend whatever ye’s get up to.

      Hope Mr Cairnstoon will have something special for us tomorrow morn 🙂

    275. Tinto Chiel says:

      But they wouldn’t, would they?

      Would they?

    276. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      “The Day the Earth Caught Fire”.

      I remember that from ‘back in the day’.

      I downloaded and rewatched it a couple of years ago.

      This is worth a watch as well.

    277. Tinto Chiel says:

      Bonsoir, BDTT, mon vieux haricot.

      I don’t remember that particular oldie but will give it a go since we all have so much time on our hands: cast looks good.

      In TDTECF Michael Caine makes a one-line appearance later on. Although I hated the alcohol-fuelled, macho culture depiction of the old papers, you can almost smell the ink and the hot type in the Daily Express scenes and the dialogue is very pacy.

      Stay healthy, sir.

    278. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      Another one worth a watch is the ORIGINAL “Casino Royale” from the 60s.

      The cast list is amazing. It’s a film I revisit every 5 years or so.

      Here’s the blurb…

      Duncan McRae’s in it, right at the start…
      You can watch the film at the link below. Usual warning: don’t allow any pop-up windows; don’t click on spurious links.

    279. Tinto Chiel says:

      I saw CR when it came out originally. I remember a chaotic spoof with an amazing cast but it didn’t really go anywhere. However, a goofy 60s-style film where everyone looks better and dresses better than today will probably cheer me up in these days of house arrest.

      Reminds me a bit of a Kenneth Horne line about British films of the 50s like Brief Encounter:

      “Ah, they knew how to make films in those days, they just didn’t bother.”

    280. Dan says:

      @BDtt with an IT query

      The email account I’ve been using to post on here is being closed in next day or so.
      If I start posting from a new email I’ll have to move my gravatar image to that new account, so does that mean all my previous posts will then lose the gravatar pic?

      Also, a Gmail email seems to be more than just a regular email with tendrils linking everywhere so may not be the best choice to switch to.
      Any suggestions on a simple basic email provider I could get an account with?

    281. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dan.

      Does your ISP not provide email facilities?
      My main email addresses are with my ISP, Plusnet. They all end in I do have a couple of Gmail addresses but I only use them for stuff like registering with sites like online newspapers and so on. They are also handy as a backup if there’s any outage in service at Plusnet.

      Re: gravatar. You’d have to have a look at your account at their site.

    282. Dan says:

      Cheers Brian, it seems my pay as you go deal is with the one provider that doesn’t have an email option…

      Will have a hunt around tomorrow and consider options.

    283. CameronB Brodie says:

      Yes they would but no they’re not. We need to protect our human rights from excessive political power. Feeding paranoia won’t help. This crisis provides ample opportunity for the abuse of power, but that MIT report is not plan of action. It is an an analysis of reality, that’s all. IMHO, obvs. 😉

    284. CameronB Brodie says:

      I thought I’d posted this on the MT, but I’d used the wrong link. The London School of Economics may be closely associated with government, but they don’t determine policy. Social science is only able to inform policy, it is economics and politics which determine it. The quality of social science is largely dependent on the relevance of epistemology and rigor of methodology selected.

      Justifying knowledge, justifying method, taking action: epistemologies, methodologies and methods in qualitative research.

    285. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The quality of social science is largely dependent on the relevance of epistemology and rigor of methodology selected.”

      That’s why we have “best-practice”. Reality is multi-dimensional, this needs to be taken account of when selecting the method of investigation to be followed. An anti-foundational epistemology does not provide a sufficiently rational base on which to base public policy.

      Global Standards of Constitutional Law: Epistemology and Methodology

      Stay safe folk. 😉

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, I’m not suggesting that a scientific world view is the only valid view, but it is essential to ethical constitutional practice.

      Brian Jonestown Massacre – Fingertips

    287. Tinto Chiel says:

      Since many people have a lot of time on their hands at the moment, you soffisticates may enjoy the original and best demolition of the Warren Commission, before many of the witnesses started to have accidents or simply disappeared:

    288. Tinto Chiel says:

      Anyone remember the meat in the musical sandwich?

      Little happened, slowly.

    289. Tinto Chiel says:

      This just shows what a wonderfully ancient and strange country we live in:

      Well done to the few locals who keep this going.

      When you get out of house arrest, I recommend a visit to Fortingall, ya bass.

    290. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Hombres – Let It All Hang Out

    291. Dan says:

      Dead Can Dance – The Carnival Is Over

    292. Tinto Chiel says:

      This is rather weird. I found it quite close to “the end of the internet” (© BDTT):

      Try it tonight to aid restful sleep…..

    293. Tinto Chiel says:

      *Warning: this song contains triple entendres*

    294. Tinto Chiel says:

      Etruscans, ya bass!

      The Emperor Claudius wrote a twenty-volume work on their history and language. His first wife was Etruscan but by that time the language was on its slide to disappearance.

    295. Tinto Chiel says:

      A classic from Fritz Lang, notable for an excellent appearance from Hamilton’s greatest thespian, Edmond Breon, aka Edmund MacLaverty:

    296. Tinto Chiel says:

      Time for something a bit more hard-hitting:

    297. Tinto Chiel says:

      The incomparable Julie:

    298. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Y’awright, Tinto?

      Eh’m worried fur yi…

    299. Tinto Chiel says:

      How so, mon vieux haricot?

    300. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –


      You could at least have amended a ‘Don’t Watch Alone!’-style warning.

      My eyes…my eyes!!!


    301. Tinto Chiel says:

      Oi nevva dahn nuffink!

      It was Harvey!


    302. Tinto Chiel says:

      Pursuing my Edmond/Edmund Breon interest…..

      Feast your eyes from about nine minutes in this, ya bass:

      He got the point eventually.

    303. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      Your comment on the front page reminded me of something…

    304. Tinto Chiel says:

      Haha, BDTT! And rightly so, me old haricot.

      Could I correct my earlier post to “Ahoooooo! Werewolves of London!”

      It’s been so long…..

    305. Tinto Chiel says:

      Anyone fancy some interactive fun on a table?

    306. Tinto Chiel says:

      The only Orson Welles film to make a pile of money, probably because it was pretty conventional:

      Some good technical shots in the village store scenes.

      And why not?

    307. Tinto Chiel says:

      Humphrey Bogart is excellent in this thriller about a crusading newspaper editor. Parts of it were used in a contoversial conspiracy documentary “Everything is A Rich Man’s Game”:

      Was going to post “Conflict”, where HB plays a clever murderer, but couldn’t find it free.

    308. Tinto Chiel says:

      Roxy Music’s tribute to The Great Man:

      “2HB”: geddit?

    309. Tinto Chiel says:

      The greatest pop saxophone of the 80s?

      Your choice, pop-pickers…..

    310. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      OK, maybe the 70s but this has gotta be up there in the chart of sax solos from the second half of the 20th Century…

    311. Tinto Chiel says:

      @BDTT: indubitably but I did say of the 80s, me old haricot/ya bass!

      Paisley’s finest produced this from the same album. It’s supposed to be about his alcohol problems but some of the lyrics are pure poetry, btw.

    312. Hackalumpoff says:

      @ Tinto
      Go easy on that Talisker now ?

    313. Tinto Chiel says:

      I always do, Hacka.

      How’s the Plague Doctor hat coming along? Don’t forget your nosegays.

    314. Hackalumpoff says:

      @ Tinto
      Mrs Hacka is modifying socks to fit the beak, just trying to follow the herd and not look odd.

    315. Tinto Chiel says:

      Me too. Will drone up spare rosemary and sage for nostril insertion.

      You’re welcome!

    316. Tinto Chiel says:

      An old poet growls:

      Off to hug a tree.

    317. Marie Clark says:

      Hi Tinto my dancing friend. Long time no hear. You seem to be in good form, although I see further up the thread that Harvey was getting the blame for something. Naughty. How is Harvey by the way, is he behaving these days or has he been on the bay rum again.

      Thank you for Julie Fowlis, always excellent and such a talented lady. Yes you get my vote of the best saxophone solo of the eighties. Wesley Magoogan’s playing on Will You get’s me every time. Takes me for a walk down memory lane just hearing it. Thank you.

      Hope you and Mrs TC are keeping safe and well. Nice to see Hacka posting as well, regards to Nana. Also BDTT.

      I haven’t been around much for a while, the MT was doing my head in, but I have a wee look in now and again.

      Anybody know how Smallaxe is doing, I hope he and the wife are doing okay in these very strange times that we’re living in at the moment.

    318. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hi, Marie (you still look amazingly like Ginger Rogers, has no-one ever told you?).

      Things fine so far at The Towers, although we have some sad curtain-twitchers in the area, monitoring the length of neighbours’ walks and who’s clapping of a Thursday evening. Missing The Wee One an awful lot: that’s seven weeks since we’ve been able to hold her.

      Tragic what happened to Wesley but what a solo he produced. I remember listening to it over and over again when we were snowed in with a school party at an adventure centre in the Southern Uplands. It took the snowploughs till about 4 p.m. on Sunday to reach us. Things got so bad we almost ate the Pot Noodles. It was either that or Miss Dowie, the 63-y-o Music teacher, and she looked a bit stringy. I’ve never been so glad to see the emergency services.

      Harvey’s fine. He wants to learn the rumba for some reason so I’m showing him YouTube clips so he can practise in the garden. Personally I think his dancing trousers are a bit tight but that’s just me.

      Last I heard Mr and Mrs Smallaxe were doing ok I think but missing seeing the family, as we all are just now. I asked the Great Man if (since I can’t get my hair cut properly just now) I should go for an ageing hippy hair-in-a-pirate-bun or an Attila The Hun top-knot look? His reply was candid, as you would expect. Any further advice or style tips would be welcome.

      Take care of yourself and the family and hope to see you and other old faithfuls at an indy march some time on the other side of all this.

    319. ronnie anderson says:

      Smallaxe is going into hospital on Tues for a blood transfusion but he’s OK as is Sybil lets wish him well .

    320. Macart says:

      Thanks for the heads up Ronnie. Also hoping that you, TC and Marie are keeping well and staying safe.

      All the very best wishes going to Mr & Mrs Smallaxe.

    321. Marie Clark says:

      Hi Ronnie, thank you for the update on Smallaxe, Iwish all the very best to him and the family.

      Tinto, please don’t go with the man bun, I always think it looks naff. My own haie is badly in need of a good prune. It’s very thick and grows like naebodies business. My beloved, has offered to cut it for me. Nae bloomin danger. I’d finish up saying coochie coo baby, and gieing oot lollipops. No I will have to wait for the hairdresser to open again.

      Hi Macart, see you sometimes on Ann is doing a great job with the links, but could do with a few more folk to comment at times.

      I’ll just leave you a wee tune courtesy of wee ginger dug.
      Please don’t try this at home.

    322. Marie Clark says:

      oops or this

    323. Marie Clark says:

      Aw hell’s bell’s that’s still no right. I’m a bit rusty with this, and lockdown is making my brain vegitate.
      I cannae even blame Harvey just me. Oh well third time lucky.

    324. Macart says:

      Hi Marie

      I pop in on most of the regulars for a read these days (and comment only rarely tbh).

      Ann B doing a great job with links and always worth a visit.

    325. Tinto Chiel says:

      OK Marie, no man bun. Will go for a smouldering No.2 razor look for my Adam Ant-inspired spring collection.

      Perhaps The Donald has shares in Lysol. Or maybe his brain is just missing, shades of Spitting Image.

      This is just to get you movin’ and a-groovin:

      Hope you and yours are fine too Macart and all the old sausage-sizzlers around the Off Topic campfire who merely lurk nowadays.

    326. Marie Clark says:

      Ah Tinto, you know me so well. I still can see my wee granddaughter dancing to that, wee soul. She’s grown up into a lovely and eminently sensible young woman, at least granny didnae dae her too much herm.

      Didn’t Axl Rose look svelte then, he sure looks a bit different now, Mind you, don’t we all. This is kind of more me at the moment, still a bit of the old rock chick, with a kind of hint of punk dontcha know.

    327. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hadn’t seen that one before, Marie: hilarious. Loved the bit at the end when the drummer, who looked rather awkward throughout, cowped on the floor.

    328. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Marie Clark.

      Hello! Liked the Peat and Diesel!

      Here’s bit of rock for you – well, more or less. Can’t remember if I’ve linked to it recently here.

    329. Macart says:

      Doin’ fine TC. Going a bit stir crazy now tbh. That and frettin’ over the kids stuck in their college flat away from home.

      Started counting blades of grass to pass the time (sigh).

    330. Tinto Chiel says:

      At least the Young ‘Uns seem relatively unaffected, Sam. Our heiresses are more worried about their parents getting it, and us in the prime of life too…..

      Instead of counting grass, we could do with some of your sanity on the M/T. I see one of the more objectionable 77ers is back on duty over there.

    331. Macart says:

      It is a bit toasty btl these days right enough. There’s always going to be roasters and ranters. Made my views on that pretty clear in times past. The ‘Walk on by’ book of kung fu for the net reader. 😎

      Look for interesting points which you have something to contribute to or read.

      Look for posts and posters you’re familiar with and like/trust/find empathy.

      Enjoy the experience. It’s not meant to be a harmful or unpleasant experience btl. You’re not meant to feel threatened. If you do feel those things? Move on to another post/poster.

      Easy to spot those who care for other folk and just as easy to spot those who simply want to be telt ‘their right’ whether it helps or not. Those that want an argument for arguments sake, or those that like to poison your well because…. REASONS!

      Take heart though TC, there’s still a few posters (like yer good self) with their feet on terra firma. 😉

    332. Marie Clark says:

      Morning folk. Very good advice Macart. I’ve given WOS quite a wide berth for a while now. I don’t know whether it’s all 77th or whether it’s bots, but man, it’s hard going. Your finger gets tired scrolling by.

      Anyway, here’s a wee song, courtesy of Ann B. Please find a wee bit time to read her links. She took over when Nana and Hacka decided that they’d had enough. There’s some good reads there this morning. So, how about trying it over on, click on forum.

      Right now for the karoke, ready to sing along.

    333. Tinto Chiel says:

      Och well, since we’re all singing, it’s The Macart Song:

      Unfortunately now it’s time to get on with varnishing the garage door and cutting the extensive greenswards at Tinto Towers.

      Can’t get the staff nowadays 🙂

    334. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi TC.

      I’ve always liked this version of that song. Reminds me of The Doors, specially the keyboard work on it.

    335. Tinto Chiel says:

      My supervisor has allowed me an early lunch break.

      @BDTT: always loved JJ Burnel’s twangy bass but not so sure about that version. Can’t get Dionne oot ma heid.

      I see Ian B is still chavin awa at the crossies. From one of his female fans:

      It’s actually a modern reworking of this old Irish song from this fey and crystalline nightingale (Poetry):

    336. Tinto Chiel says:

      In honour of The Rev’s new twitter graphic:

      No Messin’!

    337. Tinto Chiel says:

      Elfin and fey, ya bass!

    338. Tinto Chiel says:

      Did this genius foresee lockdown?

    339. Marie Clark says:

      Ha ha Tinto, whaur did ye fin this. It’s hilarious. Faur’s ma mince indeed.

      Wish he’d told us sooner about lockdown. Speaking of which, I hear the big blond eejit is going to be lifting some of it. You know, in a way, I can feel a wee bit sorry for Engerland with this clown in charge. But, on the ither hand, they bloody well voted fur him, so hell mend them.

      Things don’t look so good for doon there. I can see another bad go wi’ the virus taking off again. Madness.

    340. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hi, Marie.

      It’s an oldie somebody posted here about 2015 and I’ve kept it in my favourites. All the females at Tinto Towers found him a bit creepy but I’ve always found him hilarious. Doric, ya bass!

      Don’t know how you feel about these Scots/Ozzies but I’ve always liked the pipes:

      On the other hand, this is probs my favourite track from these scoundrels:

      Sennheisers to the max!

      Got to go, Harvey is ogling Venus through his binoculars.

      She’ll be the morning star next month, believe me.

    341. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi TC.

      This is the one you should have linked to.

    342. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, BDTT.

      Ah, yes, the Great Scott in all his Bon-ness. Forty years since he died.

      They all look so young there. Had some difficulty finding that footage again on YouTube. Thanks.

    343. Marie Clark says:

      Hi gentlemen, am I allowed to say that these days. A hell, who cares. I’m sick of all this PC GRA nonsense just now.

      Onywho, thanks for the music. BDTT, Tino did play that ages ago. He played it one day when I was having a bummer of a day, as we all do from time to time. I clicked on the link, and that was me off, jiggin aboot the room. Fair cheered me up.

      How is Harvey getting on with his Rumba practice Tinto, has he perfected the smouldering eyed look yet.
      I miss my dancing just now, hopefully better times are coming.

    344. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hi. Marie.

      Harvey’s rumba is doing fine: his smoulder is coming along nicely and he’s quite a snake-hips but unfortunately the widdie-wummin over the back misunderstood his late night astronomy session with his binoculars.

      Things got worse when he tried to explain he was only trying to observe an inferior Venereal conjunction.

      Don’t know why she can’t just shut her curtains……..

    345. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sad to hear Little Richard has passed away.

      LITTLE RICHARD – Long Tall Sally – Screen test 1956

    346. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CBB.

      When I was a bairn in the late 50s, we regularly visited my Mum’s cousin, Anne Collie, in Glasgow.
      She always took me to a cafe on Alexandra Parade for an ice cream or whatever. It had a jukebox. This is what I always selected…

    347. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      A true R&B legend. 😉

      Little Richard – I don’t know what you’ve got (but it’s got me)

    348. Cactus says:

      @Ian Brotherhood


      We need to meet again… and soon

      Do me…

    349. Tinto Chiel says:

      None the wiser after Bojo’s Dunkirk address:

    350. Marie Clark says:

      Morning Tinto, aye, I know just what you mean. Clear as mud wasn’t it, Somedays I do feel that they’re coming to take me away, especially when you look at the MT on WOS. Man where’s big billy goat gruff when you need him to take care of the trolls.

      Anyway, here’s a wee tune, chill, aaand breath.

    351. Marie Clark says:

      Oops, missed the e on breathe.

    352. Tinto Chiel says:

      Harvey’s mascara’s running after that, Marie. The words are sad but so often true…

      Something more optimistic, although I’ve never managed it myself:

      Tiny Tim’s “Tiptoe throught the tulips” describes my life better.

      Baltic but brilliant sun here. Going out to sunbathe in the garden in sheepskin coat, scarf and gloves. Gotta boost the old vitamin D at my age.

    353. Clapper57 says:

      M/T a war zone……….I wonder why(Rhetorical Q)…Now which (new/newish/intermittent) posters have instigated this and are ensuring it is maintained….Hmm…I wonder…….same names with same contentious and condescending attitudes….

      WTF is going on (Rhetorical query)….I’m sure the ‘visitors’ will be very very happy…all aboard for divide and conquer ….conquer as in shut down debate/comments that is….and divide those who once, on here, were either in agreement or at least able to agree to differ….minus the abuse.

      Give it a few months and these ‘visitors’ and their ‘friends’ will soon be the new ‘residents’ on this site and us peeps…well we will have to move onto a new base to voice our opinions…either that or decide if you can’t beat ’em join ’em…..Nah life is too short…….and the M/T war zone is going on way way too long !!

    354. Marie Clark says:

      Hi Clapper 57, I know just what you mean, it would burst yer heid. Stay a wee while a gies a wee tune.

      Come on a wee tour tae visit our celtic cousins.

      Or if this is maybe more in your line.

    355. Sarah says:

      @ Clapper: I came on here to say what you said. Saves me the trouble, thank you! My goodness, aren’t they tedious on M/T? I wish the Rev would learn how to block people…

      But it is a worry, too.

    356. Clapper57 says:

      @ Marie Clark

      Love The Pogues…thanks.Hope you are well.

      @ Sarah

      Yep….as if we are not all demented enough with everything that is happening pre and post Covid 19…now we also have to endure cyber Tw*ts on here so we have abso-bloody-lutely no respite….aarrgghhh.

      As to blocking..I think we need an Exorcism done…someone who can permanently expel the EVEL spirits Lol

      Mind you Sarah, there are others on here too who seem to be stuck on repeat…how many times can you say you hate Sturgeon before YOU think peeps on here get it…….well for some of them it seems to be an infinite exercise….Yawn boring…variations of saying same bl**dy thing…aarrgghhh we get it….please stop….does your brain hurt Sarah…mine does…I criticise SNP when I think they are wrong BUT not on every bl**dy post I write on here…we need a break…have a Kit Kat…..or a bottle of something very very strong….Lol

      Have a good evening ladies….

    357. Sarah says:

      @ Marie Clark and Clapper – and I’m sure all the Off Topic regulars feel much the same. There’s no point responding to certain people, and absolutely no point in repeatedly doing so ad nauseam.

      Few of us know any of the SNP high heid yins very well [if at all] so we don’t really know their motivations. They might be just cautious or they might have information that we haven’t. I’d love a bold move to reassert Scotland’s nation state and not wait for a referendum. I fear that not enough has been done by SNP gov since 2014 to get arrangements in place. But what do I know?

      But I’ve enjoyed a glass or two of wine with supper cooked by my equally frustrated Yes husband so life’s not all bad!

    358. Sarah says:

      Forgot to say that supper was accompanied by a lovely Messiah on youtube – Collegium 1704, a Czech orchestra. Sorry not to do the link – Robert Peffers did tell me how but I still didn’t manage it! [Hoping Robert is OK now.]

    359. Tinto Chiel says:

      Just happened to be passing.

      Is this any help?

      Good night, ladies, good night, sweet ladies, good night, good night.

    360. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 10.14pm

      That was lovely…a calming effect indeed. Thank You.

      Looking at the current time 12.08am …I cannot wish you a good evening…..but I can wish you a good day.

    361. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, Clapper57. You’re welcome.

      Baltic but beautiful Where I Am this morning.

      The birds seem to know there’s something wrong with the humans and are singing louder.

    362. Tinto Chiel says:

      Finally managed to track down the singer of this track (see what lockdown does for you?) and its catchy wee piano riff. Our heiresses played it a lot on holiday in France in The Noughties: the rest was wall-to-wall Robbie Williams.

      I don’t know how she manages to steer yon piano at the same time.


    363. Sarah says:

      @Tinto Chiel: that is the Messiah version I meant. It is glorious. Thank you for doing the techy thing for me [lazy, dim person, that I am].

      Dreich day in Wester Ross but the swallows seem to like it.

    364. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 8.28am

      Yep Tinto C.. it was a tad chilly too in Edinburgh this morning, warmed up though by the afternoon…so I went for a walk with hubby….as per daily exercise(s).

      Hope you have a had a lovely day…hope you have a nice evening too.

      @ Sarah @ 3.11pm

      Hi Sarah, hope you have had a nice day too.

      I am non techno techno too….how do I SURVIVE in the 21st century…..Lol

      Have a lovely evening

    365. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sarah: glad it was the right one. Strangely, the picture’s a bit fuzzy but the sound is pretty good. Excellent for the spirit in these dispiriting times.

      You may be interested in this, since part of it is to do with Easter Ross. I sent it recently to someone who still lives in the area and my old climbing partner whose mum went to primary school with Neil Gunn (!):

      You can copy it by highlighting the link and then pressing control and c at the same time and then control and v to paste it onto another document or provide a link. You don’t have to be a technical Gandalf aka BDTT to do it. If I can do it, anyone can.

    366. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Clapper 57: fine but cold here. Kept Mrs Chiel supplied with teas/coffees while she reclined in a coat in the garden to get some rays, then made some oatcakes with left-over oats. Pure slavery……

      Catching up on the Spanish Civil War at the mo (ain’t house arrest great?).

      No pasaran!

    367. Sarah says:

      @ Tinto Chiel: Many thanks for the railway link [geddit?]- husband and I watched it straightaway and I shall follow your instructions to send it to a cousin whose father was a railway man [ended as station master at Perth, after pre-war Argentina and 1945 Germany – he said the German railmen were on the same wavelength as him – the railway was their focus, nothing else. He hated all the railway closures and idiocy of it in Britain.] and cousin is madly keen on railways.

      I love Neil Gunn’s writing – one of his phrases sticks in my mind as every year we see on the hill opposite us “green fire” as the birches high up the hill along the burns come into leaf against the dark rock and heather.

    368. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Clapper 57, Sarah, Marie Clark, Tinto –

      FWIW, I apologise for my part in that stramash yesterday. I’m afraid I lost the plot a bit. No excuses.


    369. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: nothing to say sorry for in my book. I’m going stir crazy in house arrest.

      @Susan: glad you liked the old railway stuff. Sadly, Neil Gunn would probably not get published nowadays: no flashy, empty creative writing tricks/tartan noir cliches and too much……what’s the word?

      Natural talent?

      Or am I being too cynical?

      P.S. LINK: goddit!!!

    370. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Further to our off-off-topic conversations, have you any other ‘old’ movies to recommend? We’re loving that stuff right now, and quite astonished to see how many of them had John Huston as director and/or writer/screenwriter.

      I never really did ‘get’ why posters of Humphrey Bogart were right up there vying for space alongside Debbie Harry in the original (quite wee) Virgin shop in Glasgow. Maybe it’s just getting older, you get to appreciate things you previously took for granted?


    371. Tinto Chiel says:

      I like Conflict with wee Humphrey. He’s a baddy in that one and Sidney Greenstreet is in it too. I don’t know if you can get it free on some platform but eventually I just bought a DVD of it.

      Beat The Devil is on YouTube (Houston and HB) I think. I’ve always liked The Treasure of The Sierra Madre, too.

      On another tack and quite different, you might like Seven Days in May and Sunset Boulevard.

      As regards your last sentence, oh yes, definitely. But by the time you get to my age, there’s nothing you can do about it.

      *Stares bleakly out of window filosophically*

    372. Sarah says:

      @ Ian B: we all do it at some point! But thank you for the gentlemanly message – old world charm goes a long way with old worlders like me!

      @ TC: I liked the sound of your oatcake cooking. Do you use a griddle or in the oven?

      Re old films: we’ve had a blitz on Powell & Pressburger – “I know where I’m going”, “The Canterbury Tales”. They are a bit odd but interesting.

      Sidney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre – just their names gives me the creeps. They were excellent at being seriously frightening.

      Authors: have recently come across some excellent novels set in 1590’s Borders based on a real person, Robert Carey – very well written, totally convincing and amusing too. Author P F Chisholm. There’s 8 books in the series so that will last a week at least!

    373. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Susan: in the oven. I use a very simple recipe which it’s difficult to mess up, even by me. Made some more today to use up the oats.

      If Peter Lorre normally chills you, he plays a goodie in The Mask Of Dimitrios with dear old Sidney G doing his usual.

      I’ve always A Canterbury Tale very strange and was never really sure what it was about. The glue man?

    374. Tinto Chiel says:

      “found” missing.

    375. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 8.41pm

      Trust me you were not the problem… are one of the good guys……was most definitely not referring to you in my comments yesterday on here….if anything it is a relief to read your posts…at least they are interesting , informative and you are respectful of others…even those you disagree with or rather who DARE (Lol) to disagree with you….but more importantly you are always honest in your opinion.

      Take care

    376. Cactus says:

      Hey, was thinking if we cannae all meet up in person right now – be it by a rally/march or other social event – I’m up for doing the Skype thing or downloading that Zoom group software thing with ye Wingers, if that’s the better medium (you may already be doing this?)

      Hats off, hats on, excellent articles as always, interesting stats from the latest polls too, keep pushin’ em.

      Stay strong, Protect Scotland, Live life 🙂

    377. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 6.18pm

      Hi Tinto C, don’t work too hard…

      Mrs C lucky….it would be reverse in my house…also would be glasses of wine …Lol

      My husband and I ( I sound like the Queen Lol)…we are trying to occupy ourselves with various things…we read a lot ,go walks around Holyrood park, we have started watching box set of GOT series again…we also both play guitar so that keeps us entertained….we both took early retirement, I retired at 55…he retired at 60…. so we are both used to NOT having to go to work and finding ways to enjoy our lives.

      I appreciate though how hard it must just now be for those worrying about their jobs in the long term… …..I always think when things are going well in your own life then that is the time you should always think of others whose lives are not going as well as yours….

      Take care and have a good day tomorrow

    378. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning Clapper57.

      Another beautifully Baltic morning here but hope it heats up. Your circumstances and routines sound quite like ours but we have family members with businesses which are going down the drain fast and of course we can’t meet physically to do the usual family things like steal each others’ roast potatoes and bicker.

      Watch you don’t bump into Queenie in the park. We were once walking in the Loch Muick area and saw a woman coming towards us on the track who looked like Camilla. Better than that, IT WAS SHE, and with two female bodyguards walking behind her. She passed with a cheery “Good Morning” but Lanarkshire scum like wot we are did not genuflect.

      Half way through the masssive complete box set of Breaking Bad at the moment. Did you mention a glass of wine, hee hee!

    379. Marie Clark says:

      Morning one and all.

      Ian B @ 8.41pm. Nothing to apologise for Ian as far as I’m concerned. You’re one of the good guys on the MT. I know just how you feel, that’s why I just bow out for a while, it’s a waste of breathe trying to talk to any of these folks.

      Anyway, talking of old films, I love all the old Fred and Ginger movies. Used to watch them with my wee sister on many a wet Sunday afternoon. That was when there was nothing open on a Sunday. One of my all time favourites is Arsenic and Old Lace with Cary Grant. They were all nuts, but it still makes me laugh.

      Nice to see a few more folk making their way to OT, that has to be a plus.

      I know that we’re all a bit bored by now, but I like my music, it helps to keep me sane. Our business is the same as everyone else, my son has just had to cancel more holiday bookings for folk due to come in June, and I know a lot of wee businesses are worried that they wont open up again. Strange times indeed.

      Dae whit Nicola tells ye, stay home, stay safe. Take care folks, and hopefully we will all come out the other side.

    380. Arthur C says:

      Tonto Chief
      HOW, you get your oats?

    381. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Tonto Chief: HOW, you get your oats?”

      Same way you do, you saucy fellow.


      @Marie: the way I’m feeling just now, I’m like the Teddy Roosevelt character who charges up and down the stairs in yon fillum.

    382. Marie Clark says:

      Oh goodness, have you got a new name now. Big Chief Tonto Chiel,HOW richt enough. Good answer by the way, oo matron.

      Yes Uncle Teddy charging up and down the stairs is a highlight. Just watch if your asked to bury the ludger cause he has yellow fever. You’ll get into bother, the men in the clean white coats from the other day might come to call.

    383. Tinto Chiel says:

      I’m at the stage of opening Raymond Massey’s nice instrument case with all the sharp’n’shiny blades, Marie. We’re living in a Covid madhouse.


    384. Marie Clark says:

      Steady kemosabe, steady.

    385. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 9.35am

      G’day to you sir…

      Meet the Queen….well I guess that is quite possible since she and her family seem to be excluded from the ‘rules’ re NOT travelling up to Scotland in lockdown….I guess it’s ” My husband and I plus one’s family can go where the f**k we want to …………..lockdown or no lockdown okay Ya (really Ja Lol)”.

      Why did you not bow and your wife curtsy when you met Camilla…Lol…..was it could have thrown your jacket down for her to step on….Lol

      Never seen Breaking Bad…is Bryan Cranston the lead in it ?

      Yes we all need wine and other bevvy…copious amounts…glug glug….to drown…not our sorrows…but drown out the constant carping from the BBC and Unionist politicians….in the name oh the wee man when will they just STFU….gie us all peace…Jeezo even in lockdown in middle of a pandemic STILL they deploy same old same old ….losing Unionist strategy….how to win enemies in Scotland indeed…Lol

      We did our weekly shop today…hubby’s turn to pay so it was double this..treble that Lol….next week ( my turn to pay) I suspect we will not need to buy as much Hmm… no daft you know…well…no yet…but if I watch Yoon news again I might just go full mental mental chicken oriental…Lol

      Have a good evening….and Slàinte mhath…..glug glug

    386. Tinto Chiel says:

      That’s quite a lot of glug-glugging in the Embra area, Clapper57: is it raining over there or something? I have visions of water butts filling up 🙂

      Charlie was there that day too by the way, shooting game at the top of the glen but luckily he missed us two wee peasants when we got up there. I read in a paper a few months later that Camilla broke her ankle on the same ground but she was mibbes plastered in advance.

      Yep, Bryan Cranston. The series gets darker and darker and pretty violent at times but it’s safer than teaching, hee hee.

      The M/T is quite a revelation tonight. What a state we’re in.

    387. Macart says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      Arsenic and Old lace? Oh hell! Way beyond that stage masel’. I’ve charged up those stairs so often by this point, I’ve worn my legs down the stumps.


    388. Sarah says:

      @ Tinto Chiel re glue man: apologies if you have been waiting with baited breath for my response….

      Anyhow, I said to my husband that the reason given by the glue man for what he did was extremely unconvincing. So what was the film about? I think it being wartime the makers were putting things into perspective over hundreds of years of existence, the faith that moved the Canterbury pilgrims then still having power in the modern day. But why I like it is that it was filmed in parts of Kent where I lived, still very recognisable – Wickhambreux, Fordwich and Canterbury. And, to name drop in a tiny way, my parents were friends of James Pople who, as a 16 year old, worked on the filming – he still gets asked to give talks to Powell & Pressburger film buffs!

      Oatcakes: I’d like to try your oatcake recipe, please, if it isn’t a trouble. I have never made them but latterly, with the absence of bread flour and shortage of ordinary flour, I have substituted 1/6th weight of flour with pinhead oatmeal in breadmaking. I use Golspie Mill’s oatmeal and the bread was very nice, we thought.

    389. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Started watching Touch of Evil last night but Charlton Heston as a Mexican?


    390. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, soffisticates.

      Macart, do you always remember to blow your bugle before ascending?

      @Ian B: yes, it does strike you as a bit strange but not shocking like blue-eyed Henry Fonda at the start of Once upon a Time in The West when he does That Thing. That was one of Thepnr’s faves.

      Susan: this is very simple and suited me fine. You usually use pinmeal oats but I ran out so had to use larger ones but they were still fine. There is no flour as is traditional so ok for folk with gluten problems.

      250g Oats; 25g butter of choice (melted); ½ tsp bicarb of soda; salt to taste; 150ml hot water; a bottle of malt whisky (moanly jokin’).

      Mix everything well in a large bowl, adding butter and water last. Gather it into a ball, you don’t have to knead it. Spread oats on your board to stop the mixture sticking to the surface (you can use flour if you want). Using a husband-corrector or empty wine bottle, roll out to the thickness desired. I like mine quite thin. Use a pastry cutter of choice. Put the result on a baking tray, which you may wish to line with parchment or silicon paper. Bake for about 15 mins at 180? in a pre-heated oven. Leave to cool. If necessary, then eat them.

      Plz sent a postal order for 7/6d to Tinto Towers, Auld Cadzow, Darkest Lanarkshire and oblige TC.

      Yes, it was defo a mystical kind of film about continuity and tradition in time of war but definitely quirky. Eric Portman was quite menacing at times, which the film needed but I’m sure it would be a nostalgia trip for you.

      You may like Clouded Yellow.

    391. Marie Clark says:

      Morning folks. My, my, I seem to be mining a rich seam here when I said my favourite film was Arsenic and Old Lace. It would appear that I’m not the only one. That’s good.

      I hope clapper 57 is well this morning, there seemed to be a helluva lot of gluging going on. Hope she’s okay. I cannae be daein wi hangovers noo. I must jist be gettin auld.

      Beautiful morning here, not just as cold the wind has not got up yet, so, mofftae walk the dug. See youse a’ later. I’ll leave you a wee tune.

    392. Tinto Chiel says:

      Apologies, Sarah. Just noticed I typed Susan. Don’t know why.

      Watch that cold wind, Marie or you’ll be singing that song yourself.

    393. Macart says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      “Macart, do you always remember to blow your bugle before ascending?”

      Why, yes. Yes I do. 🙂

    394. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Macart: well, somebody forgot……

      Moff tae hug a tree.

    395. Sarah says:

      Thanks again Tinto – I enjoyed the Arsenic clip and will make those oatcakes [er, without the arsenic, obv] – the Golspie oatmeal coarse is a bit bigger than pinhead so it should be perfect.

    396. Macart says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      Jeebus! Haven’t seen that in an age. 😀

    397. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sarah: good luck! Please drone down any spares to above address.

      Always cheers me up, Sam. You can watch the whole thing on YouTube.

    398. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Macart: another metaphysical one I think you’ll enjoy:

      It’s strange but my memory of it has a female telephonist talking in the scene but it must be FMS.

    399. Sarah says:

      @ Tinto: will do, plus appropriate fee for use of recipe, if there are any leftovers.

    400. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sarah 🙂

    401. Macart says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      ROFL 😀

      Epic Laurel and Hardy.

    402. Sarah says:

      @ Tinto Chiel: we are really enjoying Clouded Yellow. Trevor Howard is excellent – understated yet totally convincing. Neither of us had seen this film before so thanks for putting us onto it.

      @ Everyone: Back to politics, I miss cearc’s insights. I would like to hear her views on a new indy party for the list; the state of the SNP; Joanna Cherry’s recent articles etc etc. Cearc was a very clever woman with a cool brain – we need plenty like her.

    403. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sam: epic indeed, me old haricot.

      Glad you liked CY, Sarah: unusual locations for the time and Howard excellent as per I thought.

      Quite a coincidence your mentioning cearc: she came into my mind yesterday for some reason (because of the rail video maybe) and I remembered she lived in a remote Highland location. She was a very clever woman as you say. I met her at Dow’s at the Wings get together a year past in March. She said she was feeling so much better so it was a great shock to hear she had died not long afterwards: very sad. She was quite a lady and is badly missed.

      Night all.

    404. JGedd says:

      This seems a calm place away from the main thread.

      Hope you don’t mind me joining the conversation, otherwise known as butting in. You all seem to be long time friends.

      Tinto, I’ve been through all of Breaking Bad and it does get darkly surreal towards the end. It is a wild ride.

      I was uneasy about the portrayal of the Mexicans as very much the Other, almost supernaturally evil. Also the one character who appears to be normally good is in the DEA.

      Quite strange as the Albuquerque police and DEA had murky dealings across the border at just the time of Breaking Bad. It is said that they helped cause the Medellin cartel wars, transporting weaponry across the border. Cynically they just hoped they would kill one another off. Didn’t matter about the several thousand people caught in the crossfire, of course.

      After Breaking Bad, you should try Better Call Saul, a spin off. The main character is Saul Goodman, the strip mall shady lawyer in Breaking Bad? IMO a more interesting study of a self-destructive character. It’s set several years earlier than the Breaking Bad events.

      Hope there are no inadvertent spoilers in there. Good night all.

      PS FWIW two of my favourite films from the 40s era are His Girl Friday & All About Eve.

    405. Clapper57 says:

      @ Marie Clark @ 9.03am

      No hangover thankfully…I may write the sound..i.e. glug glug…but I am such a clumsy goat that nine times out of ten I miss my mouth…one sip to me…9 stains on the carpet…Lol

      Talking of films everyone…Mississippi Burning is a good film…indeed Gene Hackman made a lot of great films..French Connection 1 & 2 are really good as well.

      However now more than ever we need a laugh and some respite so good to watch comedy films…so agree with some above that Laurel & Hardy are just the tonic we need…I have a boxset of their short films..I especially like the one ‘Oliver the Eighth’…hilarious.

      Hope everyone had a nice day today….and will do tomorrow as well

      @ Tinto Chiel on 13 May @ 6.44pm

      Lol…Take Care

    406. Sarah says:

      @ JGedd: I’m relatively new as well but as you say it is a welcoming thread – a haven from the battles that sometimes take over the M/T!

      “All About Eve” is a great film. Not cheerful though.

    407. mike cassidy says:

      Talking of Laurel and Hardy

      Laurel and Hardy in colour!

      Not ‘colourised’ – but actual colour photos

      Courtesy of Harry Warnecke.

    408. Tinto Chiel says:

      @JGedd: don’t worry about any spoilers with Breaking Bad, we saw the whole thing on our box set about seven years ago but have forgotten most of it, so it’s still gripping. Frankly, I could believe anything about the American authorities: they’ve screwed up just about every country to the south, starting with Guatemala and Nicaragua.

      Saul may be repulsively sleazy but he was rather effective and he did have a sense of humour, unlike most of that profession. Wish I’d had him in my legal battles 🙂

      @mike cassidy: this may surprise you, though I’m sure Macart knows this already.

      Hope it archives properly ‘cos it’s from a loathsome publication.

      There is also an old theatre in Quarry Street in Hamilton, which became Stepek’s electrical goods shop, where Stan Laurel reputedly played at least once. It’s been converted into flats but could do with a plaque on it.

    409. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just because I’m punting public health ethics and global health law, I hope folk don’t imagine I’m happy about the lock-down.

      Fugazi – Waiting room

    410. Liam G says:

      Dummy comment for alerts

    411. Sarah says:

      Just come here to recommend to others the Clouded Yellow film [Trevor Howard, Jean Simmons] that Tinto Chiel recommended. A good story, excellent acting and interesting to see 1950’s Newcastle and Liverpool.

      But my goodness, how our film industry has declined – there were loads of British films then, some produced, directed etc by – shock horror – women!!

    412. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sarah: you may also like (he A______d) “The Long Memory” (1953), mainly set in post-war poverty-stricken Gravesend and featuring John Mills cast against type as an unpleasant and bitter character whose life has been unjustly turned upside down. It’s often classed as an early example of UK film noir. You may know it already.

      I found it hard to find on a streaming service a while ago and ended up buying an Italian import DVD whose title translates as “I Will Revenge My Past”.

    413. Sarah says:

      @ Tinto: that sounds a typical example of what I mean about how the British film industry used to be – a large number of films, with unusual, not obvious, casting and story lines, set in real “gritty” locations i.e. quality of thought and artistry. We just took it all for granted.

      Right now I could do with some happy endings though!

    414. Tinto Chiel says:

      No happy endings in Scotland, Sarah.

      Btw that DVD version is fine. It’s got the English soundtrack so you can just switch off the Italian subtitles.

      Or, if you’re learning Italian, leave them on.

      Arrividerci, Erchie.

    415. John MacRae says:

      Arrivederci Roma. Archibald has just arrived in Rome.

      Which reminds me. If civilisation as we understand it, had arisen in the southern hemisphere, would analogue clocks rotate in the opposite direction?

      Also; What is it with ‘re-fried beans’ and how often can they be re-fried before they are fried out?

      Oh yes, I forget who it was said it first, but… wisdom teeth; they don’t work.

    416. Tinto Chiel says:

      These are deep questions, John, like the strange expression “pre-order” as in “I’ve pre-ordered the tickets”. Don’t they just mean “ordered”? Or do you have to book an order?

      There is also what I call non-sequitur “So” as in:

      Interviewer: How many people have been diagnosed with Covid-19?

      Spokeswoman/man: So, we are working with our partner agencies to ascertain, …..gobbledygook, gobbledygook….ad boakiam.

      It ranks with “in terms of” for being usually redundant in an English sentence and really gets on my nazzums.

      I also agree with Alexei Sayle that anyone using the term “workshop” (as in writers’ workshop, drama workshop) other than to describe a light-engineering concern in the West Midlands should be taken out and shot.

      I feel better now.

    417. CameronB Brodie says:

      A wee song about the ongoing re-imagination of Scotland justice system

      Beastie Boys – Sabotage (Alex Metric Re-Edit)

    418. Clapper57 says:

      @ CameronB Brodie @ 9.09pm

      Hi…Hope you are well.

      There’s a few wee Beastie boys on the M/T….Lol..

      adds a face with a winking eye…techno techno..Lol

      Take care …hope you had a lovely day today…and have an even better one tomorrow….adds smiley face

    419. JGedd says:

      Tinto@ 1.32pm

      I’m a closet pedant too. Try to overcome it but out it comes sometimes, all sniffy like an ancient schoolmarm. I’ll just have to have one snarl – why do Americans say ‘often times’ when ‘often’ would do, yet have only have one generic collective noun like ‘bunch of’ for every occasion?

      There that’s a relief, now I can suppress the fusty old pedant in me for another year. It’s my secret shame.

    420. Tinto Chiel says:

      @JGedd: America is another country, they do things differently there.

      The good news for us types is that BDTT has already produced “Proud Pedant” badges for such eventualities but obviously these are difficult to get hold of at the moment (as is the man himself).

      We’re stymied without the Wings stall, I fear………..

    421. Tinto Chiel says:

      Whityouoanaboot, Hacka?

    422. John MacRae says:

      To extend my theme somewhat, what is it with ‘doubling down’.
      If you are doubling, surely it must be ‘up’ ?

      Similarly ‘waterproof up to 100 feet’ should be ‘down to’ ?

      Connected perhaps to the American use of ‘thermodyne’, when this side of the pond we use ‘thermostat’.

      I could go on, but my daily pedantry allowance is being reduced due to lockdown.

    423. Tinto Chiel says:

      Don’t you mean it’s being reduced “going forward”? Maybe you could “reach out” to someone.

      *Thrashes around, bites carpet*

      Doesn’t affect me, affect me, affect me……….

    424. hackalumpoff says:

      @Tinto just trying to cheer people up with some cheerieness like ?

      “And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
      The dreams in which I’m dying are the best I’ve ever had
      I find it hard to tell you, I find it hard to take
      When people run in circles it’s a very very
      Mad world, mad world

    425. hackalumpoff says:

      The ? was an emojii which gave some additional meaning. The ? appears when an emojii this ancient version of WordPress doesn’t recognise. I don’t know why the site owner doesn’t update it, even to a version having a like button would be a step forward.

    426. Tinto Chiel says:

      @hackalumpoff: message received and understood. Yep, you’ve got to use punctuation codes for emojis here, innit? 🙂

      Thanks for cheering me up, me old haricot.

    427. hackalumpoff says:

      @Tinto, happy to help, here’s some more to enjoy,

    428. Tinto Chiel says:

      Isn’t the lady in the specs with the grey hair @0.52 Margaret Bennett, mother of Martyn?

      Thought I could hear corncrakes in the external shots. Or was it you singing?

    429. hackalumpoff says:

      @ Tinto
      Margaret Bennett, could be.

      Corncrake? I would need some serious lubrication to sound that good. Send me up some of your Aberlour stash and I’ll give it a go.
      Just don’t expect me to get the Curam as well.

    430. Tinto Chiel says:

      I only have some creme de menthe left from Christmas if that would help.

      Need a straw?

    431. hackalumpoff says:

      Bols! you know us WeeFrees only take Blue Curacao, Broad Bay Lagunas are it at the Manse Ordeans cocktails hour. Weearrapeepul.

    432. Sarah says:

      Have you all noticed that every single person on radio [and probably TV but we don’t buy a licence so don’t know], given the opportunity, says “you can’t underestimate…” when what they mean is “overestimate”?

      @TC – LOL about the “workshop” example!

    433. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Sarah: yes, old Alexei was funny in the 80s. I was quoting from memory but think I was quite close.

      Yours was a good example of the sheer glaikitness of most discourse nowadays, especially on Pravdasound 4.

    434. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks, can’t complain, , Hope you’re well and coping with the new weird. 😉 [to make one of those, you type ; or : followed by ) or (]. Simples.

    435. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Hacka: looks like it was Margaret Bennett in your clip. Look at the foatie.

      Wotta wummin!

    436. Tinto Chiel says:

      Another classic for House Arrest Corner:

      You’ll be able to stream it somewhere. My favourite line is, “I hate you!” delivered by the wee boy.

    437. Tinto Chiel says:

      Forgot to say, William Alwyn pure wrote the music for The Fallen Idol, The Long Memory and many others but he also wrote symphonies an’ that, including this wonderful piece:

      The Big Tune which comes in at 2.22 is very beautiful.

      And why not, he Normaned?

    438. Marie Clark says:

      Morning Tinto, that was a lovely piece of music to start the day.

      I see Hacka has made a brief appearance, hope he and Nana are well. How are all at Tinto Towers, well I hope, and avoiding the deadly virus. I know that we’re all fed up just now, but we’re getting there hopefully. Lets see what Nicola has to say tomorrow.

      Take care, mofftaewalk the dug again. Byeeeeee.

    439. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, Marie. Bright and breezy Where I Am. Wish I were.

      We haven’t held our grandchild now for nine weeks (tomorrow, but who’s counting?) and she only lives down the road, so I’ll be very disappointed if there’s no move to a small “family bubble” relaxation soon.

      On the plus side, when out a walk near here last week on a magnificently clear day, saw the Arrochar Alps (Ben Ime, The Cobbler, Ben Narnain), Ben Lomond, Ben More and Stob Binnein (Loch Earn) from the same spot. Fair cheered Harvey up, that.

      P.S. please tell Hacka to stop bullying me.

    440. hackalumpoff says:

      Hello Marie we’re all good here.
      Don’t listen to Tinto he’s just a bit down in the Menthe. I would pray for him if I had the Curam.

    441. Tinto Chiel says:


      For no apparent reason this came into my head, hacka:

      Like my fancy footwork?

    442. Marie Clark says:

      Hiya hacka, glad to hear all is well with you and Nana.

      Wow Tinto, zat you cuttin loose wi the fancy footstompin. Lang hair as weel, but nae man bun, yup, good look.

    443. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Marie but I get through a lot of bandanas and ruffs at the mo in this weather. Attila look was too severe.

    444. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Watched The African Queen last night – another one I thought I knew well but the only scene familiar was the ‘get these leeches off me’ scene. What a great story, and Mrs B loved it too. Soo-perb!


    445. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ready for Key Largo, Ian?

      Know you’re a sucker for a good film :’)

    446. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Have been taking note of these. Will be another two months before I’ve got through them.


    447. Tinto Chiel says:

      By then stir-craziness will have completely scrambled what’s left of my brain 🙂

    448. mike cassidy says:

      The past is definitely a foreign country.

      I was at primary school when this was taken!!!!!

    449. Tinto Chiel says:

      @mike cassidy: wow, those baffies are something else. You think the 60s and 70s were so “modern” (at least in your head) and then you get shocked by the poverty that was actually all around you but you’d just got used to it, like in this guy’s pictures:

    450. Tinto Chiel says:


      Sorry, couldn’t find Private’s Progress for free 🙂

    451. Breastplate says:

      Thanks Tinto,
      I grew up watching these old films.
      IB, African Queen is a great movie, I’m a big fan of Humpty Go=cart.
      Casablanca is another film that you and your Mrs will enjoy.

      I’ve had discussions with people that believe it was a time when they didn’t feel it necessary to dumb everything down for those watching like they do now.

    452. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Breastplate: quite agree re dumbing down. T-T was unique, like so many others*

      * You have to say this in a Denis Law/ Jonathan Watson nasal voice.

      A sad demise for the great man, largely abandoned by his friends and his industry.

      Have enjoyed your contrarian contributions, in the spirit of debate.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry if I’ve been a bit ‘forceful’ in the way I’ve been expressing myself on the MT, I’m just going with the flow as I see best. I’m also reconnecting to the law and stuff, and can appreciate the threat Brexit posses to Scotland.

      The Temptations and Black Sabbath – Get Ready for the Grave

    454. hackalumpoff says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Not my Yoda, you.
      Go Forth,
      Across Twa Firths.

    455. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for taking the time to tell me. 😉

      The Benefits of Being Open-Minded

    456. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think self-isolation has finally gotten to me. 🙂

      Wham! and Slayer – Everything She Wants is South of Heaven

    457. CameronB Brodie says:

      Definitely my new favourite band. 🙂

      Wham! and Slayer – Tropicana Death Ensemble

    458. Clapper57 says:

      Funny how today there is a distinct lack of Union Trolls on M/T post yesterday’s Cumming’s revelations….they may come on later…probably trying to formulate a defence or a deflection….so when the going gets tough the tough…just go ?

      Probably an intermission….we know how they play…bad news for the Tories…the Trolls disappear…bad news for Scottish govt or SNP MP’s…Hey their back in the room….

    459. Clapper57 says:

      Well I have fair been giving it laldy with my opinion on M/T today…..overkill on comments Lol…mainly cause I am at boiling point at this whole sh*tfest….but no worries as there is not any actual debate on there any more ….one can only interact if you call someone a moron or a clown and demean their comments….then it’s a marathon event of Tit for Tat.

      So I will stick to WOS off topic for occasional banter…at least other people interact with you here !!!

    460. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper57 –

      It’s really really wearing, and little wonder so many regulars have drifted away. Can’t blame them.

      The ‘bug’ has fucked everything and this place isn’t immune either.

      Really sad.


    461. Clapper57 says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 10.07pm

      Yep it is sad….and does wear you down……I’m jacking it in with the comments on MT….even I’m getting sick of reading my comments LOL

      Guess I’ll start writing that book I want to write…at least then I only need to suffer self criticism…and not other people’s criticism….Lol

      Oooo get me write a book….I’ll be saving the world next…Lol

      Insert smiley face emoji thingy….

      Have a lovely day tomorrow…take care.

    462. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper 57 –

      Thanks. And same back to you.

      Go ahead and write that book!


    463. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m sorry if If been a bit intense but my legal ‘spidey senses’ are in overload right now.

      Wham! and Slayer – Last Christmas/Angel of Death

    464. Sarah says:

      I’m speechless. When’s the Revolution?

    465. Sarah says:

      Apologies for asking the question here but the M/T has been taken over by the 77th Brigade. I like to talk to civilised people.

    466. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Sarah –


    467. Tinto Chiel says:

      Don’t worry, you two: all you need is a great riff and some cowbells:

    468. Tinto Chiel says:

      For some reason I’ve always thought it goes well with this:

    469. Tinto Chiel says:

      Forgive me, I’ve had strange internet problems most of the day,so I’m over-compensating. This came out the year I left school and I’ve lost too many great classmates since then.

      Think my favourite line is: “So when the sun goes low/and you’re home all alone/think of me and try not to laugh.”

      Don’t worry, I’m off to beddy-byes now.

    470. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m all for the revolution happening tomorrow. This covid crises has highlighted a self-destructive social pathology that encourages impatience to return to ‘normality’, when folk should be demanding and securing their rights to health, as well as economic, social, and cultural justice.

      Disturbed vs Taylor Swift (ft. KoRn) – Down With The Blank Space

    471. Sarah says:

      Thanks guys – put a smile back on my face for the first time today! As for Blue Oyster – how did I miss them first time round? Rod Stewart brought some memories back. As people always say, they don’t write music like that any more…

    472. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CBB.

      Those Slayer/Wham mashups were well put together.

      Here’s a couple for you…

      This one is one I put together; it’s more of a mix/segues, rather than a mashup.

    473. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Here’s another one. I used to do this live on two turntables.
      The riff from “Faith Healer” is in it from the start. They were both in the same key!

    474. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Och one more.

      I originally did this on a reel-to-reel tape recorder in the early 80s.

      It starts off with Hi NRG but also includes some of the mod revival from the 80s, Kiss, Simple Minds and the Associates.

      Background music for when you’re involved in more productive pursuits…

    475. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      I thought Wham! and Slayer were the perfect combination for the time we’re living through. I don’t know what it says about me, that it took a global pandemic for me to find a new direction in my musical tastes. That was a cool Bee Gees one, I’m more this way inclined though. 🙂

      Bee Gees + AC/DC – Stayin’ in Black

    476. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Eh, Eh checked that on but dismissed it. I prefer mine!

    477. CameronB Brodie says:

      Horses for courses. Of course, there’s no accounting for taste. 😉

    478. Clapper57 says:

      Hi techno techno guys..or …girls

      Can anyone add link to Jackson Browne song ‘ Lives in the balance’

      Insert smiley emoji thingy….as way of thank you.

    479. CameronB Brodie says:

      Good choice.

      Jackson Browne – Lives in the Balance

    480. Clapper57 says:

      @ CameronB Brodie

      Thank you…..I love Jackson Browne but this is one of my favourites….the words…the words….and his voice is wonderful.

      Have wonderful day today …..smiley emoji thing

    481. Sarah says:

      What did I say? O/T is a civilised world! Let’s hope it spreads.

    482. Tinto Chiel says:

      More civilisation for youse 😉

    483. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 12.31pm

      Thank you that was lovely Tinto….feel totally chilled out now….perhaps I SHOULD jack in comments on MT…or I will just get all hot and extremely bothered AGAIN…Lol

      Have a lovely day…..get the sunscreen on….IF it’s sunny where YOU are…here in Edinburgh it’s roasting….Take care.

    484. JGedd says:

      Drifted back in here for a brief visit again. Don’t know when I will drift back again. Totally alienated by what has happened to the main thread. In fact somewhat disconsolate about the indy movement in general. Seems to be fracturing.

      Sorry don’t have any music to contribute. I don’t think my music would fit so won’t inflict it on you. I find great consolation in it at home though. When the house is filled with Bach I feel I could just imagine a reconciliation with the world.

      Just before I go, wanted to say to Cameron Brodie that I agree entirely with your comments on 25th May @ 10.20pm. I was hoping, without great hope, for the world turned upside down and that something better might emerge from this crisis but it looks as if people just want the status quo back again.

    485. Clapper57 says:

      Well my chilling out…courtesy of Tinto…did NOT last long…I braved the MT again…added more comments…and now back in the sanctuary of Off Topic….a bit like yon Boston pub Cheers…where everybody knows your…made up…name… Lol

      Are we all at the point of… when the Hell will all of this madness end ?….if ever….personally I am in isolation from the status quo in UKnotOK returning … there a Che McGuevara resident somewhere in NORTH NORTH Brit-Tania….asking for some (majority) of the 5.5 million peeps in Escocia….lol

    486. Clapper57 says:

      You know the problem with the MT…is that certain (same) individuals are dominating it to promote their opinions while constantly chastising those who have opposing opinions….not really debate….just a relentless and never ending forcing opinions down our throats trying to choke the life out of our opinions.

      If we fail to bow down to them..they resort to abuse….we are just “morons”…drunk ones too… because we refuse to get onboard with their beliefs and opinions….it’s getting to be like the comments page of the Daily Mail….

      If at first they do not succeed…well they just keep on slamming into the brick wall…the one they built…they assume we have no real savvy as to the bigger picture….cause they feed of their assumptions….

      Well f**k them I will continue to give my opinion the one I WANT TO GIVE IT and I DECIDE WHAT I WANT TO WRITE ABOUT which I believe is….. the purpose of a Comments page on a blog…..the only person with a right to censor opinions on here is the person who OWNS the blog…not Mini… carbon copy… Citizen Smith revolutionary wannabes….phew that felt good…oh get me all indignant….anyone up for Scotland becoming a commune instead of getting independence ?…..Stop the World Scotland wants to get off…Lol

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