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Wings Over Scotland


Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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    1. Paula Rose says:

      Look! Nice shiny new play room – time to put on some music!

    2. CameronB says:

      Hello. Meet my mate Dave. He swims like a fish. 😉

    3. Alfresco Dent says:

      C’mon the Dons!

    4. Jon D says:

      Seeing as this thread was posted by the Rev in 1968;

      for all you pseudo-intellectuals out there, who remembers this music from Rod Hull’s Screen Test?

    5. CameronB says:

      Cheers Jon D. Nice one. 🙂

    6. Ian Brotherhood says:


      Three cheers for Rev!

    7. AlexMcI says:

      Ah a room just for the riff raff, brilliant, I’m going to take bets to see who is first to lower the tone of the place, any takers.

    8. CameronB says:

      Subverter United? 🙂

    9. CameronB says:

      Paula & Ian
      Fancy chucking me your e-mail. I’m out of here.

    10. Paula Rose says:

      CameronB – you’re not going anywhere darling, I want your music here, pretty please.

    11. lumilumi says:

      Wow, a shiny new place to go O/T…

      … And I can’t think of a single O/T thing!


      Oh, wait, I’ll copy here a nice story about a friend of mine who writes fiction that I posted in a “serious” thread.

    12. lumilumi says:

      Just recently I’ve been quite busy emailing with a friend. We first met when we both lived in Australia but she’s originally from Argyll and now lives in Cornwall with her Australian husband + kids. We’ve kept in touch all these years through our shared hobby, writing fiction for our own amusement. We’ve been swapping our efforts for years now. She mostly writes chatty, funny, romantic boy-meets-girl type stories. (I write unchatty, brooding boy-meets-girl type stories, must be something in the Scandinavian genes :-D)

      About 18 months ago we briefly talked about the Scottish referendum. She doesn’t have a vote but she was interested and I gave her links to WoS and other pro-indy websites.

      A couple of days ago I got my friend’s latest boy-meets-girl story.

      She’s an enthusiastic Cybernat and he’s a dyed-in-the-wool Labour journalist in the MSM. In the tradition of romantic fiction, they first clash but feel attracted and after several complications get together. She learns to tone down her “cybernattery” and he learns to let go of Labour and be a YES voter. The story ends on 18/19 Sept with them both celebrating a YES victory.

      My friend (who doesn’t live in Scotland) had obviously done her cybernat research. The heroine talks about Elmer Fudd (Iain Gray), more pandas than Tory MPs, Rosa Klebb/the Lamentable, JaBa being heckled by Clydeside trade unionists etc. Even the Secretary of State for Portsmouth got a mention!

      My friend’s story (all about 80 pages of it!) is a bit Mills&Boon but it’s a fun take on the indy debate and I told her to send it to Women for Indy. Their leadership might be a bit highbrow, but lots of even serious, intelligent, highbrow women like that type of light-hearted, romatic fiction for entertainment. I’m a fucking political anorak and I do!

      Oh, and my friend is now a committed YES voter, if she had a vote. She said that you couldn’t make up BT, a campaign as inept as that sounds like fiction.

      I wish I could share her story/novella with you all Wingers but she’s a bit shy and hasn’t given me permission.

    13. CameronB says:

      Did I just catch two in one go there?

    14. Paula Rose says:

      Here’s a very naughty facebook page – it’s ostensibly pro the union, they used to be Better Together St Kilda.

    15. Desimond says:

      Tonight JAW-DROP moment

      Someone just brought along THE CLASH memorabilia to the Antiques Roadshow. God I feel old.

    16. Paula Rose says:



    17. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ lumilumi – Just picking up on your Scottish fictional theme I have been doing a virtual tour thing on my FaceBook. Places in Scotland I have been in the past but now in the comfort of the living room and the WWW I can revisit and weave stories of mystery/romance and sometines supernatural.

      Anyhoo, I started off at John o Groats and over the last 2 months worked down the West Coast, meantime in Skye. Its here that I have come across the Fairy Glen [Near Uig] and its in this area [Quirang] that a 16 episode American TV series called Outlander was filmed and is about to be released [USA]. Partially funded by the Scottish Gov [20million pounds] and based upon a romantic, time travelling nurse 1945 back to 1750 and back and forth with 2 husbands different era. The books were written by Diane Gabaldon some time ago.

      So I am looking forward to that and yes all the info is on the WEB.

      Secondly, just wanted to ask you about KUKSA carved wooden cups and whether or not they are just a tourist thing or a family heirloom.

      @ CameronB – I am dipping into your music now. Thanks

    18. CameronB says:

      It’s bright, exciting and of my parent’s generation. I do do my best to cater to a broad taste. 🙂

      Glad you enjoyed

      Archie [not Erchie]
      I’ve not even scratched the surface. Never intended this situation but its just Better Together had painted a target on their backs, front and everywhere. 🙂

      That might be my last video posts on this thread, to make sure others get a shout. 😉

    19. Paula Rose says:

      Honey, I’m probably the biggest ska fan going – but we’ll keep that a secret and stick with the squirrels xxx

    20. CameronB says:

      Paula Rose
      What about a thread full of squirrels? Quality only. 🙂

      I just don’t get folk who can’t see the relevance of ska. Ah ,well. 😉

    21. lumilumi says:

      @ Archie [not Erchie]

      First things first. The KUKSA cup is traditionally carved from one piece of birchwood affected either by a genetic anomaly or by a fungus-type thing that makes the grain go knotty. It makes the wood very strong and resilient.

      Kuksas sold to tourists as souveniers are the same traditional shape but usually carved out of pine or whatever with no consideration given to the grain. They don’t have the qualities of a real kuksa – able to withstand water without swelling/distorting/splitting. Real kuksas typically cost at least €50 (but then last forever), souvenier kuksas can be had for as little as €5.

      A real kuksa should never be washed with washing-up liquid (Fairy or similiar). The ideal is to throw out the coffee dregs and grounds and then rinse the cup in a wilderness burn. Maybe scrub it with some river sand. I have friends with real kuksas who do that. I just use a plastic mug on my escapedas to the wilderness – at least I can put it in the dishwasher after I get home.

      Crockery, pots and pans get slimy during a 7-10 day wilderness trip. I know you’re not supposed to put aluminium pots through a dishwasher but I want to get the grime off my Trangia pots and pans. (Trangia is a Swedish brand of a alco or gas fuelled camp stove + pots&pans set, now a generic name for any camp stove in Finnish.)

      The traditional kuksa shape is so ingrained in the Finnish psyche that outdoor shops sell plastic kuksa-shaped cups.

    22. CameronB says:

      Round of applause,IMO. 🙂

    23. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings – can we get the Rev to re-name this room KUKSA?

    24. CameronB says:

      Lost me there?

    25. CameronB says:

      Doh…..I’m off to bed 🙂

    26. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ Paula Rose – KUKSA seems a good name. Something everlasting and dare I say it off topic.

      Now probably LumiLumi is wondering why I am asking but its quite simple. I happened upon websites dealing with outdoor wild camping and I am using this summer to do that here in Scotland. I do not like convention so was looking at traditional cooking/eating/drinking stuff and Kuksa popped up. Who better to ask than our own lumilumi. Thank you

      I would be quite happy sitting with a birch bowl supping tea or something stronger knowing that my country is independent. Not for home use but having said that one of my Christmas presents was an Olive Wood pestle and mortar. I love it.

    27. Paula Rose says:

      A party – let’s dance

    28. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Oh for fuck’s sake.

      You see this, readers?

      This is why all YouTube links with http:// at the start just went in the spam filter. I can’t tell you everything 50 damn times.

    29. Paula Rose says:

      I think I’ve just been condemned to the naughty step.

    30. CameronB says:

      I just embedded a vid which has now disappeared. A colourfull 1950’s Hollywood spectacular, nothing subversive. Strange that, eh, but isn’t presentation important…….

    31. CameronB says:

      Squirrels are fun…just saying. 🙂

    32. Oneironaut says:

      Nice 🙂

      For a moment I thought the Quarantine link had been removed, only to notice it was now called “Off Topic” (which is somewhat ironic, since that’s a very “on topic” title!)

      Anyways, glad to be able to come in here without crashing my browser from comment overload now 😀

      Hope everyone is having a nice day!

    33. CameronB says:

      Three Amigos-What Is A Plethora?

    34. Ian Brotherhood says:

      FAO anyone who’s coming to the Counting House on Friday – I’ll bring a roll of labels for anyone who wants to identify themselves to others. The night will fly-in, and we don’t want to spend half of it hunting for people we’ve come to know but have never clapped eyes on.

      Maybe you’d prefer to make your own, but I’ll have the bingo pen handy anyway, and if you’re really keen I’m quite happy to write your name across your forehead (unless you have a really long name and/or a very small head).

    35. Oneironaut says:

      I never identify myself! 😉
      (Bit of a hangover from the days when Brown was in charge and planning to force us all to carry ID Cards!)

      I don’t think I really know many people on here.
      Just quietly lurking in the background most of the time 🙂

    36. Desimond says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I have to get a later flight than expected ( damn you Easyjet and your Summer schedule changes!) so wont get into Abbotsinch until near 9 bells. Will be heading into town from there so although later than expected, I shall be there for sure. keep me a label if you can although I suspect you may need reinforcements.

    37. CameronB says:

      Irma Thomas – Breakaway (1964)

    38. CameronB says:

      I Left My Hat In Haiti (from the musical Royal Wedding – 1951)

      This one is for you Caesar!mac and for myself. 😉

    39. CameronB says:

      Oscar Brown Jr. – Hum Drum Blues

    40. KOF says:

      From WOS Twitter-

      Eddie Izzard’s No gig now (still) down to the last few (hundred) seats! Come on, folks, have pity.

      I had a wee look at the Festival Theatres page about the gig and noticed this –


      No wonder it’s not selling well. It’s not an Izzard gig, it’s a BT gig featuring Izzard. 🙂

    41. Desimond says:


      Sounds like a request for non-attendance!

    42. CameronB says:

      I think I get to post another for that answer I just gave. 🙂


    43. CameronB says:

      The Jungle Book – I wanna be like you

    44. john king says:

      Desimond says
      “so wont get into Abbotsinch until near 9 bells. Will be heading into town from there so although later than ”

      Haven’t been around these here parts in a while have you stranger?

    45. john king says:

      “Squirrels are fun…just saying.”

      not when they fall out with you they’re not 🙂

    46. CameronV says:

      Are we still under DDOS attack, ’cause my posts keep disappearing?

    47. CameronB says:

      Comment just reappeared, so it looks like we’re still under attack.

    48. Desimond says:

      @John King

      Now that Glasgow Airport if playing the UK card and not showing the Welcome to Scotland signs anymore ( and the WH SMith and its Great Britain Merchandise) well Im reverting to the good old days and its Abbotsinch for me!

    49. CameronB says:

      As nobody has re-posted these yet. 🙂

      Chumbawamba – The Diggers’ Song

      Chumbawamba – Song on the Times

      Chumbawamba – British Colonialism and the BBC

    50. CameronB says:

      Frankie Vaughan – The Green Door 🙂

    51. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Live streaming from the Counting House on Friday is fine by me,

      Will there be a 5 second delay for the swearing?


    52. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Calgacus –


      The man who wants to do it will be watching this thread (I hope) and making his own judgement on what to do. Ain’t my shout, but I would hate for anyone who’s made arrangements for accommodation etc to feel uncomfortable on the night – in any event, if the man turns up with his gear, it’s unobtrusive and most folk wouldn’t even be aware of it – he’s already assured me he wouldn’t want to broadcast the precise location.

      As I wrote to him earlier, it’s a tricky one, but worth thinking about. Seeing people having a good time, and listening to what they have to say in a less formal atmosphere has got a lot going for it.

      In any event, all feedback valued. Cheers.

    53. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Just having a laugh about the swearing!


    54. Fairliered says:

      I don’t have a problem with it, Ian. Is anybody heading into Glasgow on the train from Largs? If so, I will maybe see you on the train?

    55. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Fairliered –

      I’ll be going up early, should be in Glasgow mid-afternoon, have bits and bobs to do in town, will be in the Counting House for approx 6 – 6.30 to make sure no-one nicks our patch.

      You’re welcome to arrive as early as you like!

    56. Paula Rose says:

      Can we get streamed from Brechin? (hilarious grinning smiley thing rolling on floor making a mess)

    57. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      I’m not too wise on the technicalities of these things, but if you’ve a laptop with a built-in camera then I’m pretty sure you and the rest of the Brechin Wingers could ‘be there’ if the Glasgow gig is streamed.

    58. Paula Rose says:

      Darling Ian – they still wonder if the penny black is a good idea in these parts.

    59. Oneironaut says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Assuming I can get there at all on the day, I’ll probably head up early too.

      It’ll likely take me some time to even find the place, since I don’t know Glasgow much at all. Whenever I do visit it, I usually just pick a direction at random, and wherever I end up, I consider that as the place I meant to go to!

      At least getting there early means I can actually spend more time there instead of wandering aimlessly around 🙂

    60. Robert Kerr says:

      Hi Guys

      I have no probs re live streaming on Friday. the spooks shall be there in person anyway.

      I claim my fiver!

      Are you MI5/6 or CIA or MOSAD or NKVD?

      I publish live my name and photo (albeit 90 deg clockwise. (worked in Almaty!)

      Look forward to meeting all WoS. (even CameronB!} and Morag again. ( Same surname)

      We shall win this time!

    61. CameronB says:

      Robert Kerr
      No hard feeling Robert, now let’s get on with things.

    62. Robert Kerr says:

      We have a war to win.

      you shall be in Glasgu?

    63. CameronB says:

      Doubt it Robert. Would love to meet folk but it sounds like it might end up as a bit of a rammy. I’m missing enough teeth. Just kidding folks. 😉

    64. cearc says:


      Could be a privacy issue for other customers as it isn’t in a private room.


      Satellite connection is great. 10GB connection, no need for phone line.

    65. CameronB says:

      Cheers. You seemed to know a bit about planning. Any comment?

    66. Ian Brotherhood says:

      re proposed Counting House livestream:

      Here’s the latest I have from the man. Sounds reasonable enough.

      ‘…the issue of privacy is a non-issue as I don’t need to point it at the
      general public bar area. There is nothing stopping me chatting to people
      with their back to a wall. Also, if we take over one of the little side
      rooms with WoS people then it doesn’t become an issue, but we can always say
      to WoS who turn up if they mind being in live stream shot. If they say they
      do not want live streamed then I just avoid then.

      Also, for people who are maybe doing other WoS stuff else where and want to
      call in and be on live stream we give them a skype address to call and we
      pickup on a separate computer/laptop and just live stream them. I have setup
      a skype address called indylive1 that you can give out to people.

      Will anyone be bringing a laptop/I-pad they’re prepared to lend for the evening to assist?

    67. Cactus Jack says:

      Hi Ian Brotherhood,

      Thanks for arranging the meet-up event, please would you kindly add me plus 2/3 for the evenings festivities.. hopefully there’ll be a few musical instruments kicking about 🙂

      Looking forward to meeting with you all,

    68. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cactus –


    69. CameronB says:

      As nobody else seems to be playing the game.


    70. rab_the_doubter says:

      Looking forward to Friday. Should ve able to make it early.

    71. twenty14 says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Count me in For Friday – can my sticker be coloured in to show the Saltire and my name embossed in a large font and can I have one of those detachable pin clips. If not then write on my hand to allow me to ascertain who I am as the evening unfolds

    72. Alex Taylor says:

      If anyone is interested, I intend to bring a bag of ‘Aye Right’ business cards. Everyone is welcome to grab a pile to hand out over the next six months.

      Point the undecideds and soft ‘no’s to enlightenment and we’ve got it won.

      See you all Friday.

    73. rab_the_doubter says:

      Alex, that would be great. Plenty opportunities in my line of work to hand them out.
      Has anyone else been having troubke with the site tonight, posts randomly appearing/disappearing etc?

    74. TJenny says:

      rab-the-doubter – re site probs, Stu tweeted that he was aware site has been twitchy and he’s checking it out.

    75. rab_the_doubter says:

      Never thought of checking twitter, just can’t get along with the 140 character limit.

    76. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @twenty14 –

      Having pondered your suggestion re labels etc, I have one question – is your skin allergic to bingo pen ink? If so, I will write your name on my forehead so you can be reminded, if need be, who you are – if I write it on your own forehead you won’t be able to see it.

    77. Paula Rose says:

      Wish I could wing my way to the Counting House – have a lovely time girls and boys.

    78. twenty14 says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      best write on my forehead and everytime I visit the loo I’ll know who I am. If you stick it on yours everyone will think they’re me by about 11

    79. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @twenty14 –


      You rumbled my cunning plan. It was all to do with plausible deniability, or deniable plausability, forget which…never mind.

      I am happy to write your name on your forehead, but if you want it to be legible when you go to the lavvy then I’d better practise my mirror-handwriting.

      tseb eht lla,


    80. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Absent friends will be honoured on the nicht. We shall make a point of raising one to you at 10 p.m. sharp – feel the love in Brechin.

    81. john king says:

      Jings ma knees are knockin at the thought of making a total arse of myself on camera, do you have idiot boards Mr camera man?

    82. CameronB says:

      IMO, the ‘progressive’ measures outlined by Fiona Hyslop (first link) are ALL ultimately DOOMED to prove ineffective. or will under-achieve if Scotland votes no and decides to REMAIN at a STRUCTURAL DISADVANTAGE entrenched by policy guidance issued by the RTPI. Possibly a topic for future discussion?

      Ambition for Architecture and Places Across Scotland

      Independence and its Impact on the Scottish Property Market

      Professor Colin Jones wins RTPI Prize

      The Scottish Cities Knowledge Center

      HS2 Debate: The fast train south is a strain not a gain.

      P.S. Remember, place marketing is apparently an ‘acceptable’ response to the neo-liberal gutting of society. Think “I love NY” and fake shop-fronts. ‘Place’ is important but focus on measures to promote development (improvement) and sustainability MUST take account of underlying factors, IMO.

      P.P.S. Is it possible to achieve positive results when conditions will not allow for such to happen? The UK planning system performs a PROCESS but what is it’s PURPOSE? – Managing property bubbles to benefit establishment landowners milking the system?

      The cost of government borrowing is important to the property market as this links to how much domestic investors are prepared to pay. The required returns from property are based on the ‘risk free’ rate of return from lending the government money plus a risk premium. This risk free rate of return can be seen as the yield on ten year government bonds (gilts), so this is an obvious platform for property yields. The lower the income yield acceptable to investors the higher is the value of an investment. At the moment in the UK yields on 10 year bonds are at just under 3%, in Ireland they are at a surprisingly low 4% whereas in Greece with its widely publicised problems they are over 10.5% and that’s an improvement on where they were. There is no direct correlation between public debt levels and government bond yields but they have to be borne in mind. – David Hunter is a Scottish-based international property consultant, and an Honorary Professor within IHURER.

      P.P.S. Remember, it is the FABIANS that control both the RTPI and the planning education system. What is their GOAL?

      P.P.P.S. Should planning policy guidance be under democratic oversight, or will we just leave it in the hands of those who gave us British Labour?

      IMO, the RTPI is Scotland’s FABIAN JAILOR!

      Just saying.

      Vote YES

      As you were. 🙂

      Caroline Corfield
      I’ve searched for the Saint Andrew & WM track “This Is The Gemme”, without luck I’m afraid. I think it sums up what I might have taken from Johnathan Livingston Seagull. Or was that from Metamorphoses? It’s good to share. 😉

      Saint Andrew and the Woolen Mill – Dinna Ast Me (Eh Dinna Ken)

      Saint Andrew and the Woolen Mill – Ananinginaneana’

      Kendrick Lamar – It’s Alive (Elevate Remix)

      And for the submission, remember what is to come in Glasgow.

      Chumbawamba – Hanging On The Old Barbed Wire

      Thought for the day – “They break our legs and we say thanks when they offer us crutches”.

    83. memaw says:

      Hi Ian and all,
      The Counting House.
      I am so sorry we cannot make it.
      We are so disappointed, we really wanted to meet you all. My husband and I seem to have contracted a bug and don’t want to spread it around and couldn’t face a 200 mile round trip into the bargain. We will be thinking of you all and if we are fit enough will raise a toast to you at 10pm tomorrow night.

    84. CameronB says:

      Just in case folk missed the click-through link. 😉

    85. Paula Rose says:

      CameronB – Any more St Andrew and the knitting circle – brilliant, saw them live many moons back, along with Mr Marra absolute genius.

    86. CameronB says:

      Paula Rose
      There are a few more on utube. How’s this though? It is amazing what creativity is possible despite apartheid.

      Lou Donaldson – Gravy Train 🙂

      A utube search for Gravy Train, is always a giggle. 🙂

    87. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @memaw –

      I’m sure we’ll get other chances to meet up. Bummer you’ve got a bug though – get a toddy in your body and be well soon.

    88. Silverytay says:

      Rev , I would just like to apologise for not asking about Ronnie on this thread , I forgot you had put up a thread where we could go O/T etc .

      Ronnie if you end up on this thread , welcome back I have been missing your charm and wit .

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Anyone heading for Glasgow later – have a safe trip:

    90. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just bought a box of 250 plain white stickers for £1 in Morrison’s, and some nice felt-tip pens.

      Please remember to be on the look-out for Eddie Izzard – he may try to sneak in when his show finishes early due to lack of laughter. If so, he’ll be shown the door – ‘You’re barred Izzard!’

    91. CameronB says:

      Re. trying to pin British Labour down on their Devo tax proposals.

      Raleigh Ritchie – Bloodsport

    92. Alba4Eva says:

      Oh dear… left work early and just starting on my first pint 🙂

      If your going to plant a sticker on me Ian, then you’ll have to do it yourself, cos I might miss by then… Don’t worry, I won’t scream ‘VANDAL’ if you do!

    93. gerry parker says:

      I was talking to Ronnie this morning, he’ll be coming along to the counting house this evening.

    94. twenty14 says:

      @Ian Brotherhood – what time will the apples be delivered to the fruitshop …… repeat ..what time….. will the apples be delivered to the fruitshop …over

    95. Jinglyjangly says:

      In counting house bout 10here already looks like a good nite guaranteed!!!

    96. memaw says:

      You are making me so jealous. How do I access livestreaming?

    97. Paula Rose says:

      Livestreaming of lots of cybernat laddies? Ooh yes bring it on.

    98. Jinglyjangly says:

      Zillions here now Just talkin 2lobeydosser

    99. Paula Rose says:

      Probably the best wake that our dear Margo could ever have imagined.

    100. CameronB says:

      @Better Together
      Just thought you might be interested in hearing about my latest bus journey, this evening. I know, I’m over 45 and still travel by public transport but I think you shouldn’t dismiss what I have to say too lightly.

      The bus was reasonably full as folk headed out for a night out in Edinburgh. Anyway, there were these two guys in their early twenties talking about serious life issue. Employment prospects, wage rates, housing prospects. You know, the WEE THINGS. That said, they were definitely a bit stunned at first, when I went and sat next to them. See I just had to ask them if they knew that there is more oil off Scotland’s west coast, than there was in the North Sea.

      Both: Yes.

      Angry Scot (me): Do you know why we can’t develop it for Scotland’s benefit?

      Both: No.

      Angry Scot: TRIDENT!

      Both: Really?

      Angry Scot: Do you know how to get rid of it?

      Both: No.

      Angry Scot: Vote YES in September.

      Both: (smiles beaming) Oh don’t worry mate.

      I also noticed a good few folk smiling privately to themselves. So lets face the hard facts of life. Your time is up and your prospects are toast. Once the Scottish voters get to see what a fraudulent, imperialist sham the British state is, I think it is a safe bet they will do what is best for their future and that is of course to vote for Scotland.

      Vote YES

      Any comment Better Together?

      P.S. I’m annoyed I forgot about the McCrone Report. I’ll need to remember that the next time, eh Better Together?

    101. Paula Rose says:

      We’re not allowed to report certain things, but – we counted them all out and we counted them all in, and there was nae a sticker amongst them – though the squirrel added to the jollity.

    102. Desimond says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Apologies for no show….Easyjet decided on a.plane change that meant total journey went from 4:15 to 22:30….im no even hame yet. Will get you that pint one day I promise. Hope you all had a ball and took photies

    103. Desimond says:


      Thanks..ur story helped put a smile raging face

    104. CameronB says:

      Not wanting to confuse matters further, but if ZAMM’s investigation in to the VALUES of QUALITY, VALUE, LOVE and BALANCE was a bit lame for yah, how about some radical metaphysics? 🙂

      Desmond, I’m sure all of us could offer similar accounts all day. 🙂

      Word for the day: HARMONY

    105. William Duguid says:

      Great night in Glasgow. Well organised, Ian Brotherhood. Wings group not fazed by fire alarm, although ordinary punters disappeared. Thanks for making it easier for us to buy drinks, MI5!

    106. Gray says:

      Good night at the Counting house, I’ll be able to put a face to some of the posters now.

      The firemen strippers Ian had ordered were a bit of a disappointment though.

    107. Oneironaut says:

      Just got back home from the Wings night out 🙂

      Really have to do this again sometime!
      Big thanks to Ian Brotherhood for setting this up. Great night! 😀

      Waiting for the Daily (Hate)Mail headline tomorrow morning:
      “Evil Cybernats set fire to Counting House in Glasgow! Shock Report!” 😉

    108. CameronB says:

      Why not pass it on? Your smile that is. 🙂

    109. Patrician says:

      Thanks for organising a good night Ian. I only meant to pop in on my way home, have 1 drink and say hi. I was still there 3 hours later 🙂

    110. CameronB says:

      To explain why I think the Edinburgh Festival Theatre is the grossest example of place marketing I have ever seen.

      IMO, Place Marketing, in the sense of urban and regional development planning, is all about making bold statement about the uniqueness and prestige of place.


      Glitzy, glamorous building with a big glass front so that all the poor people standing across the road at the bus stops, can see what goes on in proper society.

      I don’t think the Director like my description of it as “a gaudy fishbowl full of puke”. Perhaps you can see why I did not advance to any heights in the profession. 🙂

      P.S. Those bus stops service some of the poorest and most deprived parts of Edinburgh.

    111. CameronB says:

      For Edinburgh Festival Theatre goers, I do mean that metaphorically and in a societal context. 🙂

    112. Alba4Eva says:

      It’s Sunday night [applause]… and its that time of the week again [loud cheers]… welcome everyone to ‘TOP OF THE SCOTS’ [loud cheers and applause]

      We have many treats for you tonight folks and we are going start right away with a new entry into number 10.…… No, not that number 10 you cheeky Scot-Popsters [Laughter]…
      Will You?… Will You Dance Wi Me? [crowd cheer and chant ‘YES‘]…

      …That was fantastic [loud cheers]… Now you all know the fantastic David Bowie? [cheers]… well, he’s no here, cos he’s living the American dream [sighs… then boos!]… but we can go even better [cheers]… Its up 18 places to number 9 and new for 2014, it’s ‘Yew Choob presents’ with their cover of ‘Ashes To Ashes’ [deafening cheers]…

      …What a hero that squirrel was! [loud cheers and applause]… Now its time for you all to get those gas lighters waving in the air… it’s the wonderful Angus Roxburgh with ‘To Be Ourselves’ at number 8 [cheers]…

      [cheers] Plenty of tears in the eyes around the studio there [applause]… and no doubt you all at home too… Next up with a song now in its’ 3rd week in the top ten, we have a simply incredible treat at number 7… it’s the beautiful ‘Panama’ [loud cheers]…

      …Wow… simply incredible [cheers and loud applause]… unfortunately folks, we have no song at number 6 this week [‘Awww’ from the crowd]… as David Cameron couldn’t?… or wouldn’t be with us to perform a duet with Alex Salmond [Very Loud Boos]… but… [boos continue]… [has to calm crowd with hand gestures to stop boos]… but… holding at number 5, it’s the Sensational Alex Salmond Band… [boos turn to cheers] GO ON… FEED THE PANDAS! [cheers and laughter]…

      [Loud applause and cheers]… Those pandas won’t go hungry [Laughter]… now for another new entry… at number 4… It’s ‘Never Vote Labour Again’ [cheers]…

      [Loud applause and cheers] And now I think we have ‘Something Better’ at number 3 [Loud Cheers]…

      [loud cheers]… What a treat we have for you now… new at number 2… Its’ the one… it’s the only… and with your ’Bad Romance’ [cheers]… IT‘S ‘LAAAAADY ALBAAAAAA’ [crowd go crazy]…

      [cheers] …We all love Lady Caesar! [loud cheers]…

      Now, its’ that moment you have all been waiting for… it’s straight in at number 1 [loud cheers]… its Paolo Nutini [croud erupt]… and its ‘Iron Sky’ [crowd erupt again]…

      …[cheers and loud applause]… well, That’s been this weeks ‘Top of the Scots’ [loud cheers]… thanks for tuning in… and remember… keep Yessing [cheeky wink & gun gesture with hand at camera to loud cheers and applause… and fade-out]

    113. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      Sorry I couldn’t get there. Had one of those ‘in your face’ hospital appointments.

      Not literally my face if you get my drift…

    114. twenty14 says:

      trying to change my avatar – any help please

    115. twenty14 says:

      sorry Gravatar

    116. twenty14 says:

      clever me – sorted

    117. Oneironaut says:

      You need to log in over at the Gravatar site ( and change it there, then it should start using the new one every time you post with the E-mail address you registered with Gravatar with.

      If you have a WordPress login, that should work too. That’s the setup I use with it.

      Have you any idea what that song was that Jai McDowell was singing at the Edinburgh rally last year?
      It’s been stuck in my head ever since and I can’t find it anywhere!

      Nice meeting you last night by the way! 🙂

    118. Ian Brotherhood says:

      That was the night that was…

      Good stuff. Did anyone happen to do a rough head-count?

      Ronnie’s Raffle raised £76, and I’ve got it. (Thanks to Mrs King for doing that.) What should I do with it? Just stick it on a Yes vote and keep the winnings for the victory gathering? Any other suggestions welcome.

      Great pleasure to see so many of us together, and to meet some old friends.

      Anyone who wants to do it on a smaller scale, but more regularly, we have another Glasgow venue ready and waiting – just need a minimum 20 names to get it kicked-off, then it would be weekly thereafter for as long as we want it.

      Musicians particularly welcome, so – if you’re up for it, please let me know in here.

      Have a braw weekend abody, and a special thanks to everyone who bought me a Guinness – I’ve just selected a good book and am off to spend the rest of the day in the lavvy.


    119. Kev McEvil says:

      Thanks for organising a great night. It was fantastic meeting you all

    120. StevieMcB says:

      Brussels, Austerity march, the other orange army riots, water cannon & tear gas used, funny how the report is buried in bbc Europe.

    121. CameronB says:

      Streetband – Toast 🙂

    122. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Pray tell us more. Did you get a video?

    123. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Daft me. I’ve been dottin’ aboot, posting bits and pieces about last night’s shindig on the end of threads here and there, and have only just now discovered this fab new “off-topic” thread.

      Apologies to Rev Stu.

      And big thanks to Ian Brotherhood for organising the night. Hope you’re happily engrossed in your book.

      Thanks to Alex Taylor for an extra bunch of “Aye Right” cards!

      Thanks to whoever it was (Caesar!4Eva? Another Lurker?) who gave me a shiny new “Proud to be a Cybernat” badge after i revealed I had lost mine on the bus.

      Thanks to Ronnie for his beautiful handmade blue rose. A very touching gesture. It is sitting on my mantelpiece now, and will provide a useful talking point whenever I have friends and family round.

      Thanks also to TJenny, Cath, Twenty14, Kininvie, Lobeydosser, Scaredy Cat and her young handsome son, Liz,
      Rod Robertson, John King and John King’s Neglected Wife (ha ha!), and all the other wonderful Wingers we met last night.

      Looking forward to the next one already.

      Thanks most of all to Rev Stu for starting all of this off in the first place.

      And of course thanks to Margo, whose sad and premature departure added a poignancy to the evening that only served to make us all the more determined.

    124. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Daft me. I’ve been dottin’ aboot, posting bits and pieces about last night’s shindig on the end of threads here and there, and have only just now discovered this fab new “off-topic” thread.

      Apologies to Rev Stu.

      And big thanks to Ian Brotherhood for organising the night. Hope you got happily engrossed in your book, and that it was a reasonably short one.

      Thanks to Alex Taylor for an extra bunch of “Aye Right” cards!

      Thanks to whoever it was (Caesar!4Eva? Another Lurker?) who gave me a shiny new “Proud to be a Cybernat” badge after I lamented I had lost mine on the bus.

      Thanks to Ronnie for his beautiful handmade blue rose. A very touching gesture. It is sitting on my mantelpiece now, and will provide a useful talking point whenever I have friends and family round.

      Thanks also to TJenny, Cath, Twenty14, Kininvie, Lobeydosser, Scaredy Cat and her young handsome son, Liz,
      Rod Robertson, John King and John King’s Neglected Wife, and all the other wonderful Wingers we met last night.

      Looking forward to the next one already.

      Thanks most of all to Rev Stu for starting all of this off in the first place.

      And of course thanks to Margo, whose sad and premature departure added a poignancy to the evening that only served to make us all the more determined.

    125. jingly jangly says:

      Ian I did a count probably around 8ish, it was not too easy as everybody milling about but I estimated around 60.

    126. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hmmm. Daft me again, posting twice.

    127. john king says:

      Can livestream, be accessed after the event?
      Spent today standing in the pissing rain with the CND lot in George Square, I spoke to crisiscult she didn’t think she would have been welcome last night, 🙁 I also spoke to several lurkers but only one person refused the yes cards I was handing out apparently she didn’t like wings (I didn’t bother to ask her to elaborate), but I have to say I had a blast last night and it was great to meet everyone, it was just a shame about the ones who couldn’t make it, hope your ok Conan?

    128. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      My comment awaiting moderation?

    129. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      @ John King

      Had some internal bleeding just before Christmas.

      They are crossing the T’s and dotting the I’s, so to speak.

    130. Twenty14 says:

      A bbc journalist at the Counting House reported there were over 8 people there last night,although 2 were tourists and then of course the journalist herself – bringing the actual total to 5. She claimed to have learned her crowd counti g skills at last years Independence March

    131. Oneironaut says:

      @Quinie frae Angus
      I think it was Thepnr who was handing out the cybernat badges.
      (And I’m glad I won’t be mispronouncing his name in my head all the time now that it’s been explained to me!) 🙂

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Sounds like a fun way to spend the weekend there…
      Glasgow is a bit far for me to travel every week, with the train fares and all. But I’d definitely be up for popping in occasionally if it was going to become a weekly event 🙂

      Ouch! Hope you get better soon there!

    132. Patrician says:

      Posted this on the Cat released from bag thread but things have moved on quickly from then.

      I am up for manning a Wings stall at Strathy in June at Strathy, anyone else wants to chip in?

    133. The Man in the Jar says:

      It was me that posted the original link to YES IN THE PARK (7th. June 2014 at Strathclyde park).

      I am up for manning a WoS stand and I am sure we could get plenty more volunteers. I was thinking of a gazebo and some tables and chairs. A sort of “come on in sit down and have a chat” style. And of course some Wings banners and indi leaflets. A bit of a day out for Wings readers as well.

      I live about one mile from the venue so helping out with the organising is not a problem.

      As for approaching the organisers. I think that we would be overstepping the mark by approaching the organisers without consulting Rev Stu first. Stu is a busy guy and I suspect that will probably delegate the authority. Wings is his website and we should respect that.

      With all this DOS crap flying around yesterday and today perhaps the message hasn’t been picked up by all the readers. I hope that we get a good response.

      For those who don’t have a clue what we are on about here is the link again.

    134. CameronB says:

      Is eugenics really dead? Are labour rights and wages protected by those who care about the likes of you, me and Jo one the street?

      CAUTION: The New York Council on Foreign Relations is not an impartial source. 😉

      Review of Postmodern Imperialism: Geopolitics and the Great Games
      by Jonathan Reynolds
      November 9, 2011

      Not only liberals and progressives but Tea Partiers view with helpless disgust the death-dances of the Neros on Wall Street, enriched to the point of requiring, one imagines, Roman-style emetics to clean the palate for more, more, more. The Detroit fireman might wonder how strange it is that such supposedly superior representatives of the species can be stupid about the terrible spectacle they make…….

      Only the final chapter of the American imperial story has yet to be written: how will it finally collapse, and who, and/or what, will replace the “Empire-and-a-Half”? China? A somehow more peaceful pact between China, Russia, India, and/or some other players? ……

      The “great game” referred to the geopolitical strategy of England versus Russia to control Afghanistan as the gateway to its colonial prize jewel, India. A significant length of the ancient Silk Road snakes through this notoriously shadowy but key geostrategic country which has been embroiled repeatedly since then in blood and intrigue. Today, it is the blackened griddle on which cooks America’s longest-lasting war. Described by earlier writers, Walberg abbreviates this “great game” to “GGI”, lingering on it only briefly as the early imperial period when, in addition to India and the Suez, England ran the puppet show in which Afghanistan, Iran, and the remains of the Ottoman Caliphate jerked on the strings as “nominally independent political formations”; Kipling’s “‘white man’s burden” lay over colonial lands “on which the sun never sets” – as far from the imperial isle as wealth extraction required……

      But men like Immelt and Blankfein and Dimon cause great things to happen. They are the real leaders of the world, the helmsmen – not presidents or prime ministers or other satraps. They are of consequence. Of substance. They make history. The work they do is for us. Well, not us. Humanity, in the abstract. Making sure the best genes are passed on – “best” determined by who swims in those rough green seas of money and eats the smaller fish. As Leo Strauss advised, channeling Hegel’s Master-and-Slave, life is a fight, might makes right. They don’t make huge amounts of money for their own sake, nor for our sake, but for the sake of the species, altruistically breeding the best that humankind can be. The determinant for who can pass on their genes is who piles up the most money. Is there any better type of human than the Patriotic Neocon or the Banker? A bit unfortunate for the IOs.

      P.S. The “Empire-and-a-Half” refers to the USA and Europe.

      P.S.S. I wonder what Boris Johnson would say about this sort of piffle?

    135. CameronB says:

      To be fair, this was probably written before we found out about some of the things GCHQ and the NSA are up to. Also before actual NAZIS got posts in the Ukraine government.

      CAUTION: The Foreign Policy Centre is certainly not an impartial source. 😉

      The Foreign Policy Centre is a UK-based, independent, progressive foreign affairs think tank.

      Through events, publications and analysis, the Centre aims to develop policy ideas and inclusive partnerships that promote a fairer world.

      The Centre has three Co-Presidents, representing each of the UK’s major political parties:

      Rt. Hon. Michael Gove MP, Secretary of State for Education
      Baroness Margaret Jay of Paddington, former leader of the House of Lords.
      Rt. Hon. Charles Kennedy MP, former leader of the Liberal Democrats.

      The Centre was launched in 1998 and founded by the then Foreign Secretary, the late Rt. Hon. Robin Cook, with Rt. Hon. Tony Blair as patron.

      N.B. All of these dudes outwardly supporters of the American Project and/or the EU ideal.

      The Post Modern State

      To understand the present, we must first understand the past, for the past is still with us. International order used to be based either on hegemony or on balance. Hegemony came first. In the ancient world, order meant empire. Those within the empire had order, culture and civilisation. Outside it lay barbarians, chaos and disorder. The image of peace and order through a single hegemonic power centre has remained strong ever since. Empires, however, are ill-designed for promoting change. Holding the empire together – and it is the essence of empires that they are diverse – usually requires an authoritarian political style; innovation, especially in society and politics, would lead to instability. Historically, empires have generally been static……

      While such a (post-modern) system does deal with the problems that made the balance-of-power unworkable, it does not entail the demise of the nation state. While economy, law-making and defence may be increasingly embedded in international frameworks, and the borders of territory may be less important, identity and democratic institutions remain primarily national. Thus traditional states will remain the fundamental unit of international relations for the foreseeable future, even though some of them may have ceased to behave in traditional ways……

      The EU is the most developed example of a postmodern system. It represents security through transparency, and transparency through interdependence. The EU is more a transnational than a supra-national system, a voluntary association of states rather than the subordination of states to a central power. The dream of a European state is one left from a previous age. It rests on the assumption that nation states are fundamentally dangerous and that the only way to tame the anarchy of nations is to impose hegemony on them. But if the nation-state is a problem then the super-state is certainly not a solution……

    136. rab_the_doubter says:

      Hi all,

      I just want to say sorry for drinking far too much on Friday. If I offended anyone please accept my sincerest apologies.

    137. Kev McEvil says:

      You had a great night mate, like we all did 🙂 You didn’t offend me or my mates. But we were a bit concerned about you getting home safely.

    138. Aidan says:

      I recommend you have the ginger beer next time. They even put a slice of lime in it!

    139. rab_the_doubter says:

      I guarantee it’ll not be red wine in future.

    140. CameronB says:

      Now I know why they do not let me out very often. 🙂

      Just poped out to do a quick shop and I think I just destroyed the poor checkout assistant’s universe.

      Angry Scot (me): Do you mind if I ask you a personal question?

      Assistant: You can ask but it depends on how personal.

      Angry Scot: Have you tuned into the independence debate yet?

      Assistant: Yes and I think Scotland is better off as part of Britain.

      Angry Scot: OK, this really isn’t the right sort of environment to be going into such matters. Why do you think this though?

      Assistant: Too poor, too small, too weak. (paraphrased)

      Angry Scot: OK, I would be carefull in relying on sources such as GERS, as the UK finances are a maze. For example, the shopping I am buying here will be accounted to a London Head Office. Then how do you separate out all VAT going to the Treasury?

      Assistant: I think Scotland should remain a part of Britain because it has more CLOUT that way.

      Angry Scot: So you are happy with TRIDENT?

      Assistant: Well, er, em, yes (and as a afterthought), though I’m not sure if I am happy having them here.

      Assistant: Scotland won’t be able to use the pound.

      Angry Scot: Sterling (£) is a freely tradable currency that any nation can use. The Bank of England does not have authority over who can or can the £ and Scotland owns at least 8% of the BoE.

      Angry Scot: I think you need to perhaps look into some of your ‘facts’. Be careful with the MSM, as out of Scotland’s 37 national and regional newspapers, only five of them are owned in Scotland and none of them support independence. Remember also, the BBC is the STATE BROADCASTER. Why not try WoS for an alternative view and links to evidence?

      All done in a friendly fashion, though I thought the poor lad’s head was going to burst, judging by the redness of his beam-er. Pats on the back and statements like, “he is right, this guy knows what he is on about” and quite a few happy smiles. Must have been about a dozen observers. 🙂

      Just an observation. This poor Unionist was in his early twenties, obviously a student from England and described himself as “currently domiciled in Scotland”. I asked him to be careful with his host’s democracy. Not sure if he got that one. 🙂

      @ Better Together
      Your tea’s out!

    141. Paula Rose says:

      CameronB – just hand them an ‘Aye right’ card,saves a lot of bother.

      btw – how do I post tunes without incurring the Rev’s wrath?

    142. CameronB says:

      Paula Rose
      Paula, copy and paste as usual, then delete everything from the link, before the WWW.

      I’ll need to get hold of some cards and such, though I do like a good public debate to spread the VIRUS about. I’ll need to start carrying a soap box. 🙂

    143. ronnie anderson says:

      @CameronB, I had a tin of Impearial leather Talcum powder
      for you on Frid nite. noo wheres the tunes.

    144. Patrician says:

      @The Man in the Jar, 3:49 pm.

      I had signed up for the Strathy event following the link you posted on another thread. I posted to thank you for it but I’m not sure it made it, don’t know if it was issues with the site or me not paying enough attention to what I was doing.

      I totally agree, we need Rev Stu blessing ( 😉 ) for setting this up, just in case he has anything else planned for that time. Thinking about it, it could be a good time to distribute the wee blue book if it is available.

    145. CameronB says:

      Not sure if this is what you we looking for Ronnie. I’ll need to remember the dancing shoes next time, eh? 🙂

      uknown band – Developers (?).

      So just to smooth over that one. 🙂

      Mungal feat Nitin Sahwney – Awake

    146. Oneironaut says:

      I think they put a slice of lime in everything there.

      One of them put one in my Pepsi until they noticed my extremely disapproving icy glare…

    147. john king says:

      Oneironaught says
      “Really have to do this again sometime!
      Big thanks to Ian Brotherhood for setting this up. Great night! ”

      Your not getting away they next time thought,
      we want a song from you,

      Ian brotherhood says
      ” What should I do with it? Just stick it on a Yes vote and keep the winnings for the victory gathering? Any other suggestions welcome.”

      Is it too late to organise a wreath?

    148. Oneironaut says:

      @john king
      A song??? Me?!!
      You really want me to get us kicked out of the bar with my attempt at singing?

      I can see the newspaper headlines the next day:
      “Vile Cybernat terrorists unleash new sonic weaponry upon unsuspecting innocent members of the public! Scenes of horror in Glasgow!”

    149. Albamac says:

      Sorry if this looks a bit spammy but I’m about to sell a brand new Asus G750jx gaming laptop on eBay and thought I’d give fellow Wingers an early shout before it goes up.

      Lowest price on eBay UK is £1237.97 (April 7th) for a refurbished machine. I’m selling, with a games bundle, for £975.

      You can take a look at it here.

    150. gerry parker says:

      @Partician, TMITJ
      I’ve registered and signed up for 4 tickets (for family).

      I’m only a 10 min drive away and subject to Stu’S OK I’d be happy to help on a Wings stall.

    151. Albamac says:

      So glad I joined the crowd at the Counting House on Friday. I’ve never experienced anything quite like it. Walked into a room full of strangers and was so warmly welcomed that I felt instantly at ease.

      Thanks to Ian Brotherhood for organising the gathering and to the owners of all the smiling faces and outstretched hands that greeted my arrival. Absolutely amazing!

      Let’s do it again – the sooner the better!

    152. rab_the_doubter says:

      Did anyone else hear Gordon Brown there? – ‘sometimes the smaller teams can come through and win’ – and here was me thinking Raith were Too wee, too poor and too stupid.

    153. CameronB says:

      Whatever you think about Scotland’s First Minister, Alex Salmond, he does appear to have an easy manner and is capable of thinking on his feet, if this msnbc interview is anything to go by.

      Why now for a vote on Scottish independence?

    154. CameronB says:

      Paula Rose
      Would you stop luving me Paula, if I suggested it might be an idea to give your links titles. Sorry. 🙂

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Great stuff. Never heard that before. Cheers.

    156. Patrician says:

      @gerry parker, 2:49pm

      like you Gerry, I live close enough to Strathy, only 10 mins away in the car. So as soon as there is an OK, we can start organising something.

    157. Paula Rose says:

      Good point CameronB

      The first is a fascinating interview with Robin Lorimer (from two decades ago) about the importance of Scots and Gaelic in understanding Scotland and her culture.

      The second is a wonderful film about one of our greatest poets – Sorley McClean.

      Do have a look – the interview is about 20 mins and the other about 10.

    158. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alec Salmond interviewed on Wall Stret Journal TVm during Tartan Week.

      He had the whole show to himself, which is not normal. Normally it a sort of two points of view or a panel of people discussing a topic..

      AS did very well

    159. call me dave says:

      Footie link and other stuff.
      European Games half way down first page.

      Masters golf later in the week.
      Download ad blocker if needed and away you go.

    160. Flooplepoop says:

      quite a good we video

    161. Balaaargh says:

      Can someone give a shout to Bella Caledonia about renewing their domain name? As Pads has pointed out on one of the main stories, their domain expired on the 8th March so they are halfway through the suspension period before Nominet release it back in to the wild.

      These things are easy to forget and I’m sure someone will sub them the tenner to renew it for another two years.

    162. Paula Rose says:

      And Robertson drives a car over a cliff…. anyone else watching newsnicht?

    163. indigo says:

      Newsnicht interview with Georgie was sooo good I’m rewatching – George didn’t use the word cataclysmic without consulting a dictionary, bless

    164. indigo says:

      Haha, I just noticed “no one can say that this is a small thing”, lol, except Johann – Rev hope you’ve captured that interview for ridicule, ahem, I mean for posterity

    165. Paula Rose says:

      indigo and others – have we got that on record to enjoy again? (plus the interview afterwards was interesting)

    166. gerry parker says:

      Forwarded the organisers information to Stuart and suggested he would have enough volunteers to man a stall at the Strathclyde park event.

      Having the blue book by then would be a bonus!

    167. gerry parker says:

      Just received a reply from the Strathclyde Park Yes day organisers.

      “Wings over scotland would be welcomed with open arms and at no cost to yourselves apart from travel and set up. I will CC this to our stalls person and you can both see each other.

      Keep bleatherin, Linda.”

    168. ronnie anderson says:

      @gerryparker,an am up for some of Stathy park to Gerry/Partician.

    169. gerry parker says:

      Great Ronnie, will keep you posted via off topic.

    170. CameronB says:

      Just for Faltdubh. 🙂

      I think these guys perhaps had a hand in preparing the omnishambles of ‘Powers for a Purpose’? 😉

      Sesame Street – Bert’s favorite number is 6

    171. call me dave says:

      Under 17 footie draw. live
      Scotland in the bag in the last 8

    172. call me dave says:

      Sorry try the correct link here

    173. Fairliered says:

      Something for the zany comedy relief list

    174. Fairliered says:

      Looking for SSP yes posters for the Largs Yes shop that will be opening soon.
      Does anybody have a source?

    175. call me dave says:

      Rev says we are to wear our badges quite right but… Some don’t agree.

      Badges? Badges! Stuff blazing saddles here is the original.

    176. CameronB says:

      Re. Scotland’s future power supply, nuclear waste ‘management’ and weapons tests. I did a bit of poking about and thought these might as well go here. Just for posterity. 😉


      History of nuclear waste disposal proposals in Britain

      Prior to 1976 very little thought had been given to the question of how we were going to deal with the nuclear waste produced by military and nuclear electricity programmes. Some lower level waste was disposed of at sea, but most waste was simply accumulating at various nuclear sites around the country. Then a report from the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution (known as the Flowers Report) raised the alarm. It stated that:

      “… it would be morally wrong to commit future generations to the consequences of fission power on a massive scale unless it has been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that at least one method exists for the safe isolation of these wastes for the indefinite future.” [para 181, page 81]

      Careful with this one. 😉

      Royal Society of Edinburgh
      Inquiry into Energy Issues for Scotland
      Final Report
      June 2006

      Scotland can not operate in isolation on energy. It is part of the global energy market. It will have to work within the powers reserved to the UK government on energy and use its own delegated powers, for example on promotion of energy efficiency. The Scottish Executive will need to work in harmony with the UK Government and promote the Scottish position.

      The best estimates of population and economic activity in Scotland predict an increase in both with the consequential expectation of a 50% increase in energy demand by 2050.

      Scotland is making a contribution already to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. Although small in global terms, there is a practical contribution and an ethical imperative to continue but the targets must not disadvantage Scotland’s competitiveness.

      Nuclear fuel cycle
      The economics of uranium supply and demand
      by Ph. Darmayan

      The uranium market is still a young one whose “laws” have yet to become entirely clear. This tends to disorient observers and decision-makers who are anxious to predict its development.

      It has a number of characteristics which are sharply differentiated from those of other minerals, including other energy commodities……

      Finally, the nuclear industry is one with unusually long lead-times. For both uranium miners and electrical utilities, it can take ten or more years between a
      decision to proceed with a project, and the point where a new mine or nuclear generating plant is brought into operation.

      Perhaps a whiff of volatility about this one. 🙂

      World Nuclear Association
      Uranium Markets
      (updated June 2013)


      Mines in 2012 supplied some 68,800 tonnes of uranium oxide concentrate (U3O8) containing 58,344 tU, about 86% of utilities’ annual requirements. (See also paper World Uranium Mining). The balance is made up from secondary sources including stockpiled uranium held by utilities, but those civil stockpiles are now largely depleted.

      The perception of imminent scarcity drove the “spot price” for uncontracted sales to over US$ 100 per pound U3O8 in 2007 but it has settled back to $40-45 over the nine months to June 2013. Most uranium however is supplied under long term contracts and the prices in new contracts have, in the past, reflected a premium above the spot market.

      Note that at the prices which utilities are likely to be paying for current delivery, only one third of the cost of the fuel loaded into a nuclear reactor is the actual ex-mine (or other) supply. The balance is mostly the cost of enrichment and fuel fabrication, with a small element for uranium conversion.

      I can’t remember if Auntie has explained anything of this to me. ;(

      World Nuclear Association
      Nuclear Power in the United Kingdom
      (Updated April 2014)

      UK generating capacity (2011) is 94 GWe, comprising 30 GWe gas, 23 GWe coal, 11 GWe nuclear, 5.2 GWe wind (21.7% load factor in 2010), 4.2 GWe hydro including pumped storage. Peak demand in 2011 was 57 GWe.

      The history and development of the UK nuclear industry is covered in Appendix 1 to this paper, Nuclear Development in the United Kingdom. Currently, there are 16 operating reactors in the UK totalling 10 GWe capacity. The last operating Magnox reactor – Wylfa 1 – is due to shut down when its fuel runs out, in December 2015 if fuel is transferred from unit 2 as now proposed. This will leave seven twin-unit AGR stations and one PWR, all owned and operated by Electricite de France (EdF) subsidiary EdF Energy.


      A new planning regime was proposed to aid the installation of nuclear reactors as well as other significant new infrastructure projects such as railways, large wind farms, reservoirs, harbours, airports and sewage treatment works.

      Under the Planning Act 2008, the need for new infrastructure would be addressed through a National Policy Statement (NPS, see next section on Nuclear site licensing and authorisation). Then, the local impacts of a particular development would be handled by an independent Infrastructure Planning Commission (IPC) rather than by Ministers or local planning authorities.

      The IPC was formed in October 2009, but the new coalition government that took office following the May 2010 general election has said it would replace the IPC with an advisory body and return decision-making power to the responsible Ministerc. Under the Localism Act 2011, the IPC was abolished and in April 2012 its staff and functions were transferred to a new national infrastructure directorate created within the Planning Inspectorate (PINS)……

      Careful now. 🙂


      Historical Accounting for UK Defence
      Highly Enriched Uranium

      A report by the Ministry of Defence on the role of historical accounting for Highly Enriched Uranium for the United Kingdom’s Defence Nuclear programmes.

      MARCH 2006


      Details of the Review

      The objective of the historical accounting process was to establish as accurately as possible the total quantity of HEU acquired and how this material was transferred between sites and used.

      Records were raised when material was transferred between sites (and within sites for local accounting procedures). This review has been conducted from an audit of annual accounts and the delivery/receipt records at sites.

      A major problem encountered in examining the records was that a considerable number had been destroyed for the early years of the programme. There is only a legal requirement for the companies to keep such records for 30 years. In some cases older records were destroyed when they reached this age.

      There is a greater awareness now of the need to keep these records and this past practice has now been stopped, but too late for the purposes of this review. The task of locating early records was intensive and great efforts were made by all concerned to locate corroborating older records, but the search cannot claim to be comprehensive.

      Even where records have survived other problems have been encountered, including:

      – not all records differentiated between civil and military production,so assessments had to be made of the ultimate destination. This was complicated by the fact that HEU produced at Capenhurst subsequently went to Windscale for processing before onward movement to the
      final customer, making distinction between new make and
      recycled HEU difficult

      – some early records make no specific mention of waste and effluent disposals

      – some records lacked the precision now required; no units of mass identified, or were difficult to decipher, against the quantities, and consequently assessments had to be made to establish units. Other records did not identify quantities to decimal places and may have been rounded. As individual figures this may be acceptable but when accumulated into total quantities it can produce inaccuracies in final figures

      – in some cases no indication of enrichment value was available. Average figures were used, or knowledge of the process used to assure that the material was indeed HEU

      – changes in the structure of the contractors have presented difficulties in tracing documentation

      It also has to be borne in mind that instrumentation and measurement techniques were not as accurate in the early years as they have become over the past 20 years or so.

      Down with this sort of thing. 🙂

      South Uist Missile Range

      South Uist missile range lies on the northwest part of the island of South Uist, together with its local radar tracking station, immediately to the south of the island of Benbecula, where the airfield at Balivanich, RAF Benbecula, serves as the overall range headquarters and provides additional support facilities; the final part of the range is the remote radar tracking station installed on St Kilda, about 40 niles to the west.

      The range is operated for a number of clients, including the MoD and BAe Systems, by defence contractor QinetiQ, which took over from DERA (Defence Evaluation and Research Agency) after much of that agency was privatised in 2001. The Hebridean range is described as the largest air and sea range in the UK.

      Apologies for being a bit hyper. 🙂

    177. Thepnr says:

      Taking my lead from Ian Brotherhoods great night out in Glasgow last Friday I’m proposing another, this time in Dundee.

      It will be a wee night of beer, fun and politics somewhere in Dundee. I’m proposing a Friday night as I work away during the week.

      If enough people are interested I’m confident I can find us a plac for our sole use. So let me know by posting here so as I can get an idea of numbers before making enquiries.


    178. Thepnr says:

      I really should have given a date. May 9th which is in 4 weeks time.

    179. Juteman says:

      I’m up for a wee Dundee swally. 🙂

    180. Thepnr says:

      Good man, first on the list. Glasgow was really good, I think Dundee can exceed it though!

    181. Brotyboy says:

      When I first found Wings I assumed I’d be in a geographical minority, but there does seem to be something of a hotbed around here for Yes.

      Since then I’ve thought about the prospect of meeting up with other like minded souls, so I’m happy to get together with some of you high frequency posters.

      May 9th is okay, but Wednesday coming, before the meeting would suit also.

    182. Paula Rose says:

      Count me in Thepnr.

    183. CameronB says:

      Taking my lead from Ian Brotherhoods great night out in Glasgow last Friday I’m proposing another, this time in Dundee.

      Third-ed. 🙂

    184. Thepnr says:

      Good stuff.

      Looking forward to meeting you Brotyboy and Paula.
      Paula, mind bring some tunes. I like your yew choob links 🙂

    185. CameronB says:

      Forth-ed. 😉

    186. CameronB says:

      Now that is just embarrassing. I meant I was the fourth supporter, obviously. I’ll take a back seat in choosing the date and time.

      Looking forward to meeting up.

    187. Paula Rose says:

      But darling Thepnr – our lovely CameronB is our house DJ. (rather pleased there – count and house, all I need is an ing xx)

    188. Thepnr says:

      CameronB welcome mate. Your only coming cos Paulas said she is lol.

      Hopefully someone who attends will bring an instrument or too for once we’re all introduced and we’ve reached the merry stage.

    189. Paula Rose says:

      Just couldn’t help myself – here’s the ing (and a winkie thing).

    190. TJenny says:

      Posting this at Thepnr’s request.

      But this is for me – long does it take to get to Dundee from Edinburgh?

    191. Thepnr says:

      About an hour ten minutes by train similar for driving.

    192. Cactus says:

      Hi Thepnr –

      Kindly pencil me in for Wings meet-up No.2 ~ The descending on Dundee. I’ll probably come up for the weekend. I’ve had a look at hotels online.. I take it the Holiday Inn Express would be near enough to the chosen venue? I’ll come equipped 😉

      Any word on Edinburgh’s gig yet?

    193. Thepnr says:


      The plan for now is to have the meet in Dundee city centre but no booking will be made until I have an idea of numbers. So if in city centre Holiday Inn is good.

    194. TJenny says:

      Had thought we could have the next WOS meeting in Edinburgh, but as things seem to be moving on having a Dundee venue, and as I’ve never been to Dundee, count me in for Friday 9th May.

      Maybe Edinburgh in June?

    195. Thepnr says:

      Very strange, that’s only 2 from 5 posts that have went up.

    196. Thepnr says:

      Great TJenny, can’t believe you’ve never been to Dundee. Scandalous 🙂

    197. Paula Rose says:

      I think we’ll all be having a bit of a party in auld reekie in September – still want a wings night in every city in Scotland (Brechin included).

    198. ronnie anderson says:

      You,s bliddy lot orginizing a nite oot in Jutetoon an no letting me know,git the pees het up.

    199. TJenny says:

      Cactus – I’m from Edinburgh and would obviously be up for an Edinburgh gig, (say on Friday 6th June) and suss feedback on that whilst at the Dundee event.

    200. Paula Rose says:

      Lots of jam as well Mr Anderson xx

    201. Thepnr says:


      If you could make it, it would be great to have you. Your boy and son in law too of course. I could put you up no problem, have enough room as the weans have flown the nest. You’ll all get your own bed so don’t panic LOL.

    202. Thepnr says:

      Ah I figured out what was happening with my missing posts!

      I forgot to remove the http from youtube links. How thick is that? Anyway, “Dundee Fowk”:

    203. Cactus says:

      Hi TJenny – Yeah, a provisional Friday 6th June at Edinburgh works for me too, are you nominating yourself as co-ordinator? 🙂 Maybe we could go to Holyrood for a photo-shoot?

      Wingspeople, we should really get another few rendezvous before referendum day.. any takers for early July/September?

      Cmon cmon let’s stick together, aka UNITE THE CLANS!

    204. ronnie anderson says:

      @Tjenny, mind bring a camera I’ll show You Desperate Dan Lol.

    205. CameronB says:

      I’d be up for an Edinburgh thingy as well. Just give me a shout.

    206. rab_the_doubter says:

      Id be up for Edinburgh; and I promise ti behave myself

    207. ronnie anderson says:

      @Thepnr, thanks pal,I might stay with my Daughter in the Gowrie, hopefully my Grandsons will be available to come with me,looking forward to seeing you,s all again & again & again Tjenny Emburghs a must fur me tae, git the orginizeing posted up.

    208. Thepnr says:


      I forgot your daughter was up here. Your added to the list, let me know if anyone is coming with you. Cheers ma man.

    209. TJenny says:

      I don’t usually frequent hostelries but am willing to do so for the cause. 🙂

      Cactus – you seem to me to be someone who gets out and about a bit and may have Edinburgh venue suggestions.

      I would say it should be somewhere near Waverley Station, oh, and remembering from the Counting House, has draft Guinness. 🙂

    210. CameronB says:

      Re. Dundee and Edinburgh venues. Only a suggestion, but I think there are Weatherspoons near both rail stations. Much frugality. 🙂

      N.B. Dundee station up-grade adds a bit to your walk.

    211. Cactus says:

      TJenny & Wings readers/commenters, when visiting Edinburgh I always seem drawn to Whistle Binkies for the live music etc.. dunno if that would work for Wings though hehe! Anybody else? True though, should be close to transport links for convenience.

      A good question is if we want these meet-ups to take the form of a private function, or be semi-public and approachable by the curious reveller? The Counting House was a good layout for the interested.

      Maybe Nicola & Alex could get us a function suite at Holyrood.. have they got a bar there? 😉

    212. CameronB says:

      Re. Dundee and Edinburgh gatherings. I’ll chuck £20 in to a kitty for each, so nobody has to feel they can’t come along.

    213. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Serious query –

      Paula Rose has been crying out for a Brechin gig for yonks – could we roll the two into the same week-end?

      Another serious query – could Brechin handle it?

    214. TJenny says:

      CameronB – what a lovely idea and so will I.

      Does that make it the Emergency Kitty? 🙂

    215. Cactus says:

      CameronB / TJenny – That’s beautiful, ditto from me.. it’s happening again, what’s that indiegogo page?

    216. CameronB says:

      OK, that’s three more contributors needed and we have a £100 limit on a free bar. Perhaps those who can, would satisfy their refreshments requirement out of their own pocket, if necessary.

      Of course, we could get ten contributors and really get Yes a bad name. 🙂

    217. TJenny says:

      Cactus – forget Indiegogo, we can just use your hat. 🙂

      As for the bar at the Parly, as far as I remember, it’s only for MSPs and their guests, who have to be signed in.

    218. Cactus says:

      Tico, watch the lights..

      Bon Jovi ~ Bad Name (Genre: 80’s ROCK)

    219. TJenny says:

      CameronB – we already have 3 – you, Cactus and I – so we only need another two for the ton.

    220. Cactus says:

      That works for me.

      Looking so forward to meeting up again with you all and lots of new Scottish people. I reckon with the publicity from Glasgow’s meet-up back on the 4th April at the Counting House, Dundee is gonna be a belter! 😉

    221. Cactus says:

      I’ll leave you with this.. goodnight Scotland.

      Everybuddy Knows Your Name/Gary Portnoy (Genre: Dedication)

      See you bright and early in the morning.

    222. CameronB says:

      Posted before refreshing, honest. 🙂

    223. Oneironaut says:

      Nice idea, though Dundee is a bit out of my travel range.

      Wishing you lot a great night out though! 😀

    224. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CameronB –

      ‘…we have a £100 limit on a free bar.’



      Count me in mister. I’ll tell the staff you sent me, as they pour me into a bin-bag.

    225. Brotyboy says:

      @ Thepnr

      Anyway, “Dundee Fowk”:

      Thanks for that one, I’m sure I’ve seen and heard it before.

      But I’d completely missed the wee model of the old Tele seller from the corner of the Murraygate and Commercial Street, whose face is indelibly printed into my mind. I suppose he’s been gone for 30 years or so, but he’s a part of Dundee and Dundee’s history.

      Forget the Tardis, these images can take you back 50 years just like that.

    226. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Ian I have you down as a possible, hopefully you will make it. As for the Brechin idea, I’d be up for that. Any ideas Paula?

      Hopefully there will be quite a few more nights arranged closer to home and which you will be able to make it along to.

    227. john king says:

      Thanks for the invite Thepnr, I’ll work on the wife and see what she says, but in principle, Id love to take you up on that,
      A wee pey an aniningaenana ;)would be just great,
      anyone want to let Ian in on the secret?

      btw just how much DOES a ten gallon hat actually hold?

      Ian ,TJenny,Ronnie A, wow it’ll be hands across the central belt richt enough! 🙂

    228. Thepnr says:

      @john king

      You get working on her then and give me a shout once she has submitted 🙂

    229. john king says:

      Will do

    230. john king says:

      What about Geoff and Handclapping are you guys thinking of goin?

    231. Geoff Huijer says:

      I’m afraid I won’t be able to afford it.

    232. Geoff Huijer says:

      Unless I sell a shed load of books before then 🙂

    233. john king says:

      I could take you up there Geoff but I wont be coming back the same night.

    234. Thepnr says:

      Geoff would be welcome to stay over at my place with you and the missus John. There are 3 empty bedrooms and I’d be happy to fill them.

    235. Paula Rose says:

      That’s the problem with Brechin – as most of you will have to get home by car, It’ll be an evening of orange juice all round!

    236. john king says:

      There you go Geoff, its settled then, I’ll come and get you we’ll arrange it later and no arguments.and don’t bother with the cost of the night out, apparently CameronB’s footing the tab 🙂

    237. call me dave says:

      Footie and golf link streams for today.

    238. The Man in the Jar says:

      Another opportunity for a night out.

      Yes in the Park. Strathclyde park 7th of June. (Afternoon)

      Speakers. Christina McKelvie, Alex Neil, Colin Fox, Alan Grogan and Robin McAlpine

      Includes a Wings over Scotland stall.

      What are we doing afterwards?

    239. ronnie anderson says:

      Am up fur manning the Wings stall,selling/giving out leaflets, I’ll ever get a ticket fur Gerry Parker fur a spin on the Gerry planes,ur you up fur it Gerry lol.

    240. ronnie anderson says:

      @Thepnr,speaking to my Daughter today, she mentioned The Braes in Perth Rd it has a back room.

      An ah think a can prize anither few quid oota ma wallet fur the raffle, ah hope that Glenfiddok went down well, who won that at the Counting House Liz didna tell me.

    241. Thepnr says:

      Ha ronnie there’s a coincidence already told john king I was goning to check them out. The gallery pictures look good I will get in touch tomorrow.

      They have two areas for private functions, a “chill out” and downstairs so assume a small or larger gathering would be suitable. Check out the pictures here, less than 10 mins walk from the railway station and 5 mins from the city centre.

    242. Thepnr says:

      Don’t know who won the raffle, can’t even remember hearing it 🙂 I should be able to “squirrel” up a raffle prize or two also.

    243. CameronB says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews says;

      Alex Salmond’s conference speech:-

    244. CameronB says:

      Sorry, apparently that is an old speech (2013).

    245. CameronB says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Try this for Alex Salmond’s speech today …

      Morag says:

      That’s the boy, Calgacus. Vote of thanks to Moridura for putting it up.

      See, no restrictions.

    246. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Can I apply for a space on your floor if I bring my sleeping bag?

    247. Paula Rose says:

      Space for 2 in your bag Ian – pubic transport is not brill in Angus.

    248. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula –

      Certainly not. Two people sharing a sleeping bag is wrong for a host of reasons, none of which I am drunk enough to discuss in public.

    249. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula –

      Stan/Ollie – !!!!!

    250. Paula Rose says:

      Ah well worth a try – just love handsome young men xx

    251. Paula Rose says:

      All part of the land of thistles and jam –

    252. Thepnr says:


      Your room is is booked. Your making the bacon and I’m on the eggs. John Kings job is to grill the sausages. His missus is making the tea.

      See I have a plan.

      Geoff let me know if your coming as then then that’s us full.

    253. CameronB says:

      Paula Rose
      That’s ten hours of ska and reggae I’ve selected from, with probably another twenty to thirty to choose from. You ain’t getting any unless you give me link TITLES. 🙂

    254. Thepnr says:


      I missed your post, you have a room, Ian and Geoff if he comes have a choice. Share a room, two single beds or one can sleep on the settee.

      I think that’s all rooms fully booked, just need to turn the sign on the door now. “No More Vacancies”

      By the way I will be organising transport back so no sweat on that detail. We can sort out the minutiae later.

    255. Paula Rose says:

      @ CameronB – This is going to be one beautiful night

    256. gerry parker says:

      @ Ronnie.
      Yer on, I love flying.

      Waiting for info back from Yes in the Park re stall at the event.
      Stu seems keen, so do Yes.

    257. Paula Rose says:

      Oh and a wee bit of stop messing around –

    258. Lobeydosser says:

      Oh well. To late in booking eh 🙂 Davy and I might make it for a drink too. See how things go.Haven’t been to Dundee for years, my sister was a dancer in the theatre there more years ago than I would like to remember.

    259. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Seriously man, if you end-up in a position where someone misses a train/bus, or is elsewise compromised, I’m totally cool about sleeping on the floor. It’s not a problem, and would probably do wonders for my back. I don’t even need a pillow as I have perfected the art of rolling my outergarments into a serviceable headrest.

      In any event, I will probably be seven sails to the wind and quite happy to sleep anywhere, so long as I know where the nearest lavvy is located.

      P.S. I don’t snore. Not so far as I’m aware.

      P.P.S. Paula? You really are a mischievous rascal.

    260. Paula Rose says:

      @ Ian sisterhood – we could crowd fund a holiday inn!

    261. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lobeydosser –

      It was a delightful shock to see you and yer man in the CH. I was properly gobsmacked, and hope my reaction wasn’t ‘livestreamed’.

      Tried to locate where you revealed yourself to me here on WOS, couldn’t find it, but I did reply, probably on a later thread, so please don’t think I rubbered you. Sorry we didn’t get more of a chance to chat on the night, but it just flew in and I had to bolt for the last train. Can’t believe how well the both of you looked – it was as if someone had taken youse away and done a make-over to show how you’d look ‘twenty years from now’ but hadn’t done it very well. It’s all in the eyes, eh?

      Much love to you both, and it would be brilliant to meet in Dundee, or anywhere else.

      We’re on the way…cue The Proclaimers.

      PS That said, I’m still not sharing my sleeping bag with anyone, even if I’m on the floor.

    262. Thepnr says:

      Would be great to see you and Dave here so I hope you both come.

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Me too Ian, we can all fit in without invading each others personal space. So far we all have a bed, but if the floors your thing…I won’t stand in your way 🙂

    263. Paula Rose says:

      @ Ian – its OK sweetie I’ve got the suite booked. But we can always share a juice before you retire to the floor.

    264. Paula Rose says:

      Suppose I’ll have to keep flying the flag for our linguistic beauty –

    265. Thepnr says:

      Something I failed to mention! Hope no one is allergic to wee dugs as I have one he’s 10 months so still a pup though he will sleep in my room.

      Took him for the first time today to the Angus Dog Activity Club. Here he is in his first “terrier race”. Something that looked like an effigy of Alastair Darling was the lure.

    266. Lobeydosser says:

      @Ian Brotherhood.
      Charming as ever. You have changed very little yerseI, enjoyed every minute of our Wings night thanks again for all your effort.Of course the best part was meeting and putting faces to well kent names thats how I don’t think I can pass up the chance of meeting more splendid people.

    267. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      That Proclaimers song must be one of the most joyful ever written – impossible to hear it without smiling.

      @Paula – Aye, good one, and we’ve shared it before methinks. Can anyone imagine the poetry to emerge when this country is reborn? really. We’ll have to make it happen, and then wait – but we won’t wait for long.

      We ARE on the way, and there’s not long to go – heids doon, everyone, and push, push, push, in whatever way we can. The finishing line is in sight.

    268. Paula Rose says:

      Dundee – did we mean – a song for the lassies…

    269. Lobeydosser says:

      What a wee cracker. Whats the dog’s name?

    270. Paula Rose says:

      and if we’re gonna give credit where credits due – I’m no the only one who loves this –

    271. Thepnr says:

      He’s called…Mac and a wee cracking cairn terrier he is.

      He will worry Blair McDougal to death if I let him, did you see his eyes tonight on the telly, big brown bags around them.

      We have three Pandas in Scotland now, only two are in Edinburgh Zoo.

    272. Lanarkist says:

      Somebody say something about a Dundee WOS night!

      Love that idea, I am just across the Bridge, please keep me in the know!

      It would be great to talk face to face with some other supporters!

    273. Lobeydosser says:

      Aye he looks like a right wee character. Didn’t see MacDougal, fraid I gave up watching the telly altogether a good while ago and as a consequence I’m a much calmer human. See you were fighting the good fight over on the Gruniad the other night, had a good laugh at you wiping the floor with the idiots. Go you 🙂 upvoted all the way from me.

    274. Paula Rose says:

      @ lanarkist – yep, we’ve booked two benches in the centre of the city for the event!!!

    275. Thepnr says:

      I get bored easily and something to do. Thanks for the votes LOL.

      You know when your doing that kind of thing you actually keep in mind that others might read it. Spreading the truth I call it. Didn’t really believe it got noticed though 🙂

    276. Thepnr says:


      Got you down as a possible, 14 so far but that’s just since yesterday. Hope we get a few more. Glasgow was great and Dundee will be too.

      All good fowk.

    277. Thepnr says:

      4 benches Paula, get yer facts right!

    278. Patrician says:

      Hi gerry parker, ronnie and tmij.

      I have been off-line for a couple of days and I keep forgetting to check this thread. Who organised the Wings stall that is showing on the yesinthepark website? Anyone any ideas what would be needed to set up the stall? A gazebo (in case it rains), a couple of folding tables.

    279. Paula Rose says:


    280. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      More power to ye mister.

      It’ll be a great night – the very fact you’re doing this will spark others.

      We’ve a long summer ahead, and this is all part of the ‘momentum’ oft-quoted in recent speeches – BT is now zombie material, and every single positive action we make now just grinds them down further.

      I hope you have a big venue in mind – you’ll need it.

      (PS I will not share my sleeping bag with anyone.)

    281. The Man in the Jar says:

      Liking your wee dug. Mine (see avatar) is a cairn, patterdale cross.

    282. Paula Rose says:

      All those serious don’t know types will be looking at the recent comments and find that wings is a social club.

    283. The Man in the Jar says:

      The Wings stall at Yes in the park is a mystery to me. I did notice that there is a £50.00 cost to set one up.

      I must say that I am surprised at the reactions (or lack of) in the comments.

      This event is a good opportunity to drag along some undecideds.

    284. CameronB says:

      The Man in the Jar
      Not that it amounts to much but I will try to make the Park. It might be a bit far off for folk to make commitments now though.

    285. Thepnr says:

      @The Man in the Jar
      Love yer wee ginger dug. I guess June(?) seems far away right now, expect more activity a couple of weeks out.

      @Paula Rose
      I was just a wee bairn when that was out, funny how you remember all these songs though. When you come to Dundee do you want to stay at my place rather than head back to Brechin? I can drop you back off there in the morning after we’ve enjoyed the breakfast cooked by Ian and John.

      I thought this was a Social Club where we all came together for a common goal. This is the Democratic Social Club.

      New members most welcome.

    286. CameronB says:

      OK then Paula. 🙂

      The Quickest Way Out – Tick Tock Baby

    287. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Yes in the Park?

      Saturday, June 7th?

      I’m up for that one. Definitely. May be the closest we’ll get to a full-on rally.

      Missus, weans, maw-in-law, and sundry neighbours – we’ll make a day of it. If ‘WOS’ is there, so much the better, and we’ll be up for leafleting, dancing, bevvying, what-evs.

    288. CameronB says:

      A Parcel o’ Rogues – O Dear Me, The Jute Mill Song

    289. The Man in the Jar says:

      To all that are responding to my “Yes in the Park” comments thanks.

      I live about a mile from the venue so if I can be of help to anyone please let me know.

      The event lasts from 12 till 4pm a curry and a beer afterwards beckons. 🙂

    290. gerry parker says:

      @tmitj,Patrician, Ronnie and Ian.

      I checked with Stu and then e mailed the organisers a week ago,here’s their reply.
      From Linda Baird.

      “Wings over scotland would be welcomed with open arms and at no cost to yourselves apart from travel and set up. I will CC this to our stalls person and you can both see each other.

      Keep bleatherin, Linda.”

      Passed on to Stu, I think we should be able to russle up enough volunteers to man the stall for the day.

    291. Paula Rose says:

      @ Thepnr – that would be great, do you do facebook? if so send me a message on my page UKOK.

    292. The Man in the Jar says:

      @gerry parker
      Ah so it was you! 🙂

      I am in Yes Uddingston and Bothwell so I know Linda Baird.

      I am willing to help man and organise the stall. Hopefully plenty of others will help out as well.

      Gerry I know that patrician lives close by as do I. I’m assuming that you do likewise. Should we arrange to meet up and discuss? Still some time to go yet but I don’t want to leave anything to chance / last gasp.

    293. gerry parker says:

      A meeting would be a good idea. I know Ronnie Anderson is keen to be involved, He’s close to where I live so I could pick him up. With it being in June we probably have plenty time to arrange. I’ll check with Stu next week (seeing how it’s Sunday and a day of rest today 🙂 ) and see what form he thinks would be appropriate. Will also e mail the organisers and check what they mean by “set up costs” Don’t know about the costs of hiring a market stall rig but I think Ronnie has some expertise in that field. Would like it to be a good shop window for wings. We’ll see how it develops, I think a core of 6 or so volunteers could see it set up.

    294. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: Dundee.

      There are still some tickets left for the “Yes Rocks!” gig on 26th April.

      RE: Dundee 9th May.
      Braes – pint of real ale – £3.50
      Counting House – pint of real ale – £2.10

      Could we not just invade the Counting House? No private room, just a vast expanse of space to allow mingling with ‘Don’t Knows’.
      Also, live streaming like the Glasgow meet would be good…

      Lastly, “Yes Rocks!”. Here’s Independence and Amber Road for anyone who doesn’t know them.

    295. call me dave says:

      All Footie and golf streams for today.

    296. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose
      Bit cryptic for me?

      @Brian Doonthetoon
      You’ve got a point, I’ll look around, there are a few options.

    297. Paula Rose says:

      Thepnr – I’m a bit loathe to post my email address, but quite happy to contact people via my facebook page (of course that only works if you use the damn thing). My facebook page
      which I share with two others, is titled UKOK. Hope that’s less cryptic.

    298. Thepnr says:

      Paula having trouble finding your page, if you go though to the labour for indy page I’ve just posted a message to congratulate Allan Grogan and Nicki his wife who has just brought a new Independence supporter into the world.

      You’ll see my Avatar, just invite me to be a friend.

    299. Patrician says:

      Re: Yes in the park.

      Like Ronnie I live in Airdrie, I would suggest a meeting at the Toby carvery at Strathclyde Park or the pub at M&Ds. I would also suggest this is done as soon we can arrange it. June 7th might seem like a long time away but it is only 7 weeks away and if we want to get anything in the way of promotional stuff organised and delivered that isn’t much time.

    300. TJenny says:

      Seeing as how the YES Strathclyde Park gig is on Sat June 7th, an event which will bring wider coverage of both YES and WOS to the public, followed by Bannockburn on 28 June, would it be prudent to delay any Edinburgh WOS evening until the celebration party on 19 Sept. 🙂

    301. gerry parker says:


      That’s a good location for everyone, I was thinking Bellshill but being from Coatbridge I don’t really know any watering holes there.
      What say x Sticks and TMiTJ + any others local wanting to help?
      I can spend next week checking out with Stu and the organisers for their take on it, and We should be ready to meet either tail end of next week(remembering it’s Easter weekend) or sometime the week after(22nd to 25th, but I can’t make 24th – otherwise engaged)

    302. CameronB says:

      For no other reason other than it puts a smile on my face. I also think these guys are truly astonishing.

      It boggles the mind that humans previously considered too stupid can coordinate so many advanced skills? All whilst living under the institutionalised structural disadvantages of an apartheid system. Mind though, this wasn’t ‘culture culture’, it was ‘race culture’. Big difference, as only one was considered acceptable in polite society.

      Cab Calloway and the Nicholas Brothers – Jumpin Jive

      P.S. I used to do reps up and down the dunes at Carnoustie, but the poise these guys show and all with a smile.


    303. CameronB says:

      Boomtown Rats – Looking After Number One

    304. Paula Rose says:

      Let’s dance to a different song-

    305. CameronB says:

      …a different tune, eh?

      Luke Kelly – Freedom Come All Ye

    306. ronnie anderson says:

      @gerry parker, on the case gerry, a big gizebo large decorators table,is ok by me fur You to co-ordinate with Stu & Linda,am available anytime,just come & git me.

      If there’s anyboby with contacts with any other Indy party’s a wide range of reading material leaflets ect,
      promotion to the max of every Indy group,

      Cmon people lets show Scotland how Together we are.

    307. ronnie anderson says:

      @CameronB,cab galloway ,n nicolas bros brilliant Cam.

    308. The Man in the Jar says:

      Yes in the Park.

      As for meeting place the “Brewers Fayre” or “Toby Carvery” or whatever it is called this month sounds fine by me. It is easy access and parking for everyone. It is only a short walk to location of event.

      I can make it any time or day.

    309. ronnie anderson says:

      @gerry parker/patrician/lanarkist, 2 50p shaped gizebo’s

      promised,possible 1 big decorators table,+ wait for it

      decoration a couple of Helium squirell’s on discount from

      a friend.

      to be sourced= camping chairs

      camping stove fur the square sausage,( ye canna work on a

      stumock + rolls.

      couple of big flasks= tea/coffee

      beg borrow nae stealing mind.

    310. gerry parker says:

      Ronnie, I’ve got the catering stuff and the chairs.

    311. ronnie anderson says:

      @Gerryparker I’ve got a big cool bag,stevie broon at coatdyke market fur steak sausage/bacon/morton rolls,asda
      am buying,if you have time Gerry pop up an see me, we need to exchange contact details.

      Cmon Wingers who,s jumpin in, more the merrier.

    312. KOF says:

      Exhibition in France about Scottish independence via the medium of the cartoon. Good to see Wings’ stalwart Chris Cairns represented here.

    313. gerry parker says:

      @ Ronnie,
      Willdo, just waiting on Patrician saying what her availability is for a meeting, I’ve laid out the plan to Stu. Haven’t had any further contact with the organisers yet (Linda Baird).

      Will post up the time, location and date, but I’ll pop up and see you before then.

    314. Flower of Scotland says:

      I think I could manage a night out in Dundee! Drive to Cupar and train to Dundee. May 9th is that right?

    315. Flower of Scotland says:

      I’ll bring an Irish Friend . good Craic!

    316. ronnie anderson says:

      @gerry parker, ok gerry when ever your ready,am chasing down another gizebo thats about 15ft of cover.

    317. Patrician says:

      @gerry parker, 4:59.

      I can make most days; weekdays as long as it is later than 8:00pm. most weekends times should not be a problem. “just waiting on Patrician saying what her availability”, that should come as a shock to my wife 😀

    318. gerry parker says:

      I Knew that was going to happen.


      Can we all meet Brewers Fayre( that’s the one right at the entrance to the park I think).
      Thursday 17th 6 PM. I’m free all day and so i guess is Ronnie if anyone wants to make it an afternoon or lunchtime meet. All welcome to come along if you want to help out in any way.

    319. gerry parker says:

      Initial meet to swap e mail addresses and contact details, introductions and AOCB.

    320. Oneironaut says:

      Really looking forward to the Yes in the Park gig 🙂

      I’ll probably be spending most of the day with one of the poles on an SSP banner stuck in my pocket like I was in Edinburgh last year.

      But hopefully I’ll find the time to drop by the Wings stall too. Gotta get me one of those badges! 😀

    321. gerry parker says:

      The next dates I would be available. 22nd 23rd and 25th April if any of those would suit more people better.

    322. gerry parker says:

      If 17th not OK the next dates I could be available. 22nd 23rd and 25th April if any of those would suit more people better.

    323. David says:

      “First they try to scare you, then you laugh at them, then you laugh some more, then you demolish all their arguments with ease, and then you win.” (M.K. MacGandhi)

    324. ronnie anderson says:

      Am nae John Innman, but I’m free if Gerry can pick me up

      anytime day or night.

    325. Paula Rose says:

      For TJenny – first impressions of Dundee –

    326. CameronB says:

      I’m going to be niggle now. I wish Derek Bateman wouldn’t refer to Britain or the UK as a country. Too picky?

    327. CameronB says:

      As I said, the Great Game continues. This could be an enlightening read.

      I think the first part of the top video could be a description of the Scottish cringe.

      Imperial Designs
      Deepak Tripathi, PhD, FRHistS, FRAS

    328. CameronB says:

      Talking about the Scottish cringe, I thought this might be relevant.

      Evelin Lindner: The Role of Dignity and Humiliation for Terrorism

      Evelin Gerda Lindner (born May 13, 1954, in Hameln, Germany) is a transdisciplinary scholar in social sciences and humanities. She holds two doctorates, one in medicine, and the other in psychology. Her research focuses on human dignity, and she believes that the humiliation of honor and dignity may be among the strongest obstacles on the way to a decent world community. She is the Founding President of Human Dignity and Humiliation Studies (HumanDHS), a global transdisciplinary fellowship of concerned academics and practitioners who wish to promote dignity and transcend humiliation….

      Lindner advocates equality in dignity, locally and globally. She has chosen Norway as a main base because she believes that Norway is in a unique historical position. The ideal of equality in dignity (likeverd in Norwegian) is at the core of the human rights message. It is at the same time deeply rooted in Norwegian culture and an important part of Norwegian heritage, while it is new to cultures with more hierarchical traditions that stand for social inequality. Research points at the importance of equality for health and stability, both at the individual and the community level. Equality in dignity is important for a sustainable future locally and globally. Lindner believes that Norway has a responsibility to make the Norwegian cultural heritage more accessible globally. Norway enjoys very high reputation in the world, which means that the message of equality in dignity, when it comes from Norway, has a greater impact.

      Her views might be interesting. Got any budget left Rev?

    329. You and My Comb says:

      I’ve been pondering..

      One of the reasons I like this site is that I get an introduction to Scottish history that was missing from my time at school in the 60s. I can probably tell you more about the First World War or the austro- Hungarian empire than I can about almost any time period in Scotland’s history you care to mention. I am certain that I am not alone.

      I wonder if it is possible to recommend a list of books that cover key aspects of Scottish history both prior to and following the Union? The big issue here though is if you recommend them in this thread, someone will struggle to find them in the future. The kind of books I am thinking of would cover the Covenanters, the Clearances, Jacobite rebellions, suppression of Scottishness and as much other information that would help me fill in the large gaps between the crusades and now.

      Is it possible to fit this into the Reference section (I am aware of info there) as a possible reading list for others to see in the future. Is it also possible to link postings to this where they provide additional light on historical issues?

      I know this might be asking a lot but I would struggle to find posts from months ago that gave an insight into our history never mind remember recommended books.

    330. gerry parker says:

      Postponing meeting till next week if that’s OK, make it weekend during the day if it suits more people.

      26th or 27th. Spoke to Ronnie today bounced a few ideas about. Waiting on Stu getting back to me on a few points.

    331. Paula Rose says:

      Oh goody a proper poll…

    332. CameronB says:

      bobby ‘boris’ pickett & the cryptkickers – monster mash

    333. call me dave says:

      @Paula Rose

      Brilliant…only saw the joke as I drew mouse over the NO.
      I wasn’t going for NO honest! 🙂

    334. The Man in the Jar says:

      @gerry parker
      Next week is fine by me. Any of the proposed dates should be okay for me.

    335. Patrician says:

      @gerry Parker, 3:31

      I haven’t been on this site for a few days and don’t think I would have made it tonight. Next week sounds better. Click on my avatar for my email address. Send me an email and I will send on my contact info.

    336. Thepnr says:

      Hope to give an update this weekend with the venue for the Dundee meet up night on the 9th May.

      @Flower of Scotland be great to have you and your pal come along.

    337. SquareHaggis says:


    338. Paula Rose says:

      I’m still astonished at this – apparently it comes from BT, trying to click on No is funny but the result of clicking on Yes is a tad jaw dropping.

    339. Better Together St Kilda says:

      Sorry folks – our secretary bird Paula Rose has been operating somewhat above her pay-scale these last few days, it won’t happen again.

    340. Thepnr says:

      OK full post again for those that may have missed it on the main board who are visiting a week or two later.

      O/T A wee update on the Wings Big Night Out(R)in Dundee 9th May.

      Have listened to various voices re cost of drinks, mingling with joe public ect so have spoken with the manager of Jolly’s Hotel in Broughty Ferry. This is a Weatherspoons pub that just recently reopened at the start of this month.

      There are 25 bedrooms too at reasonable prices, I did ask for a deal but the manager answered “our prices are quite fair” but anyway it’s an option for those who may want to stay over.

      This is not in Dundee city centre but only 10 mins in a taxi, more like the West end of Glasgow. A popular area for a night out in Dundee. They will be happy to host us on 9th May although he wouldn’t reserve an area for our soul use.

      He did show me where we could be accommodated and it is ideal for maybe up to 60 people.

      I’ll put more info re getting there for folk from out of town over in Off Topic. Hope to see you there.

    341. Thepnr says:

      All Dundonians I’m sure can make their own way to the “ferry”.

      If coming from Glasgow there are two trains that stop in Broughty Ferry arriving at around 7pm and 8pm. People on the Edinburgh route (incl Cupar Flower of Scotland” will need to change at Dundee though there is less than a 10 min wait to get on the same Glasgow train.

      Alternatives of course is bus or taxi from the Dundee train station though I don’t see any point doing that.

      Anyone coming from North of Dundee like Arbroath, unfortunately or disgracefully as I think there are no trains stopping in Broughty Ferry around that time.

      Prices for the hotel which has just had over a million pound refurbishment are quoted as £79 for a double Mon/Fri and £55 Sat/Sun. Single £59 and £45 respectively.

      The manager did tell though that you will get the bst deal on Laterooms or direct at the J.D. Wetherspoons website.

      Maybe I can persuade the manager to offer weekend rates for the Friday also. I will try if anyone is interested.

      That’s it for now then, last word come on Dundee can we put on as good aa show as Glasgow? I think so.

    342. Cactus says:

      Well said Thepnr, looks like an ideal venue.

      Three weeks to the day to go..
      Let’s see your numbers good people of Dundee.

    343. Wish I wiz going wie yies. Have a ball!

    344. Thepnr says:

      Anyone who fancies looking at the website, pictures 1 to 3 is the main bar area, pictures 4 and 5 is the area the manager showed me as being suitable for our group. They are separate.

    345. Brotyboy says:

      @ Thepnr

      What time are you thinking of starting the evening off at?

      I’ve just had an invite to a family do in Carnoustie that evening which can’t be avoided, so I may have to settle for popping in on the way but will probably have to be off by around 8pm. Curses.

    346. Cactus says:

      Here’s a thought for Dundee’s do..

      I’ll be driving up the A9 on the Friday, would anybuddy be interested in forming a Wings convoy, anywhere from the borders to Bannockburn? Please note, flying a Saltire flag from your vehicle would be mandatory 🙂

      So come on all you bikers & taxi drivers (especially the taxis with the Scotland flag on your bodywork).. you already do the annual Easter Egg / Trip to Troon runs, so dya fancy adding another date to your diary and take a ride for Scotland?

    347. Juteman says:

      Jollys in the Ferry?
      I thought this was a Dundee meet?

    348. call me dave says:

      Footie links tonight

      Inverness V Aberdeen

      Atletico Madrid.

    349. ronnie anderson says:

      @Cactus driving up the A9 in convoy, where ur you gone

      Aberdeen its A90 tae Dundee lol.

    350. SquareHaggis says:

      So sunny today

      Beautiful 🙂

    351. Cactus says:

      @ronnie anderson – hehe, I should’ve mentioned taking the A90 turn-off at Perth. If anyone’s coming down the A9 from the north, you’ll know where to go, cheers.

    352. Thistle says:

      Would love to do live stream for Dundee event if you wish, only snag would be I would def need get back to Glasgow same night for the family. Not sure if anybody going from Glasgow who could give me lift.

      Ok, completely different topic we are looking at live streaming to online radio as well as the usual video. There is a fundraiser here if you think you can help and want more info:

      Finally, anybody know any pro-yes accountants in Glasgow that I can get some advise, as I’m a wee bit worried about how much money I’m raising. liveindependence [at] gmail [dot] com

    353. SquareHaggis says:


      No PayPal option?

    354. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A few points here…

      Thepnr – well done on getting this going! Jolly’s sounds a jolly good idea!

      Juteman typed:
      Jollys in the Ferry?
      I thought this was a Dundee meet?

      Now Juteman, everybody knows that Broughty Ferry is the upmarket housing scheme within Dundee, having been absorbed into the city in 1913, because the jutemen and women needed a holiday resort with a beach, that didn’t take them from the looms, carders, breakers and frames for too long.

      Thistle typed,
      Would love to do live stream for Dundee event if you wish

      Do you know about the Yes Rocks! gig in Dundee on Saturday 26th April, in aid of YES Scotland? I’ve suggested that it would make an ideal candidate for live streaming but nobody seems to have bitten.
      Duncan McCabe from Radical Independence and Stewart Hosie, SNP MP will be offering a few words, along with music from Amber Road and Independence.
      See this page for further info:-

      Lastly, Thepnr, would it not be possible to get Broughty Ferry’s most famous would-be politician, Bob Servant, along to say a few words on the 9th? We all know that his minder, Brian Cox, is on the YES side of the debate.


    355. Garry Henderson says:


      What time is the do?

    356. Thistle says:

      @SquareHaggis it’s is a couple of very young yes supporters that are doing the crowd funding and setting up the Indy radio, they have been doing similar with their school for about a year. I spoke with one of them earlier and they told me they could not get the PayPal option, plus they blundered by making it 50 days. I’m just working out what kind of stuff I may need to run the radio stream along with live stream, so possible I may need do some more fundraising and will help them out.

    357. Thistle says:

      Just to let everybody know we nearly have 2 full rigs of live streaming equipment that let’s us cover more events. We have also been donated an iPad which we will be donating to a local Indy yes group in Glasgow to help them get up and live streaming which will happen soon.

      Hopefully more live streamers will start to pop up around Scotland so more events get covered and we will help give advise if asked.

      If you have an event that you would like live streamed just ask and we will see if we can manage it, just email us. liveindependence [at] gmail [dot] com

    358. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thistle –

      You is the man!

      More power to ye, but FFS, as we’re all nagging Rev constantly, take a break now and then – long way to go!

    359. Thepnr says:


      Hi Buddy, I had you down as a Dundee man from the first day I landed on this site. In fact I thought you would have been one of the first to stick your hand up and say “I’ll be there”

      When it to came it. I had to make a choice and taking others views on board I choose the ferry.

      Their really is no choice, but you have to make a decision. I made mine, hope you can make it.

    360. Juteman says:

      I was waiting for a Ferry punter to deny that it was part of Dundee. 🙂

    361. john king says:

      I’ll no be allowed in Jollys cos I went in there the other day for a pee and nivver bought a pint so am banned 🙂
      only kidding, but we were up there the other day for a wee walk in Barnhill garden an a wee chat wi the gairdener (nice chap)

      BTW it was actually the pay shoppie a went into for a pee and a nivver even boucht aninginaneana! 🙂
      you tell em Thepnr

    362. Thepnr says:


      Did you mean the peh shoppie 🙂

    363. john king says:

      a meant peh shoppie.

    364. john king says:

      Briandoonthetoon says
      “Lastly, Thepnr, would it not be possible to get Broughty Ferry’s most famous would-be politician, Bob Servant, along to say a few words on the 9th? We all know that his minder, Brian Cox, is on the YES side of the debate.”

      Now that I would PAY TO SEE, good idea Brian
      anyone ken Brian Cox?

    365. john king says:

      I just tweeted Brian Cox with the venue and date,
      hope you don’t mind Thpnr but I just invited him,
      Will that give you a good reason to come?

    366. john king says:

      I kinda telt Brian Cox on twitter the drinks were on you if he comes,
      I was sure you would be fine with it 🙂

    367. Thepnr says:

      @john king

      Good man! He will have to stay at Jollys though my pad is full lol

    368. CameronB says:

      Thepn & john king
      I don’t know if I can make it now. 🙂

      Seriously, I’m looking forward to meeting all and have started saving my Giro already. 😉

    369. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hope yooz don’t mind – I’ve added this event to this Facebook events page:-

    370. ronnie anderson says:

      Am in fur £20 fur the bar tab tae help people oot,awe caw me a miserable git if you,s wunt,am no realy its jist the wie a lean sometimes.

      So its settled on Jolly,s

      Thepnr you can buy me ah Coney fae the Ice Cream coney shoppie, long time no hud their ice cream.Mmmmmmm the rest o you,s pit yer tounges back in,yer oon tae plumbs.They,ll awe be wantin tae taste the delights of the Ferry noo Thepnr ha ha.

    371. ronnie anderson says:

      @Thepnr an nain o you cheap Farmfoods ice cream its

      Visochi,s or nain atah lol.

    372. CameronB says:

      ronnie anderson
      How on earth do you know about Visochi?

    373. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Visochi,s Yes ice cream, queues round the block in the summer. Right opposite Jollys too, I’ll get you one.

    374. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Just got a message from the man who did the Livestream of the Counting House – he can do Dundee, and has other ideas too. Do you already have his contact details? If not, please e-mail me and I’ll forward what he sent me.

      @Thistle –

      If you read this, please see above!

    375. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For Paula Rose and Thepnr –

    376. CameronB says:

      Ruth Brown – Taking Care Of Business. 🙂

    377. TJenny says:

      Wow – SoS front page.

    378. CameronB says:

      Just when the Rev. thought it was OK to skiving off for a bit. This could do a lot to t6owards normalising Yes. 🙂

    379. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CameronB @ TJenny –

      Just digested your two posts – what a combo!

    380. TJenny says:

      IB – I’ll take that as a compliment, I think. 🙂

      Hope the poll rise in SoS is a good un, and Scottish Skier is on standby.

    381. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –


      Look forward to seeing you again – hopefully well get the chance to enjoy a quiet puff without some nutter accosting us. (If that guy – he said his name was ‘Andy’ – was some kind of a wind-up merchant? He wasn’t very good at it, eh?)

    382. rab_the_doubter says:

      A big thankyou to all of you who have worked really hard to get us to this point. I really feel like I should be doing more.

    383. TJenny says:

      IB – aye, some folk are just best ignored especially when they’re a bit sozzled.

      Anyway, as WOSers, we’re way too cool to get wound-up. 🙂

    384. TJenny says:

      IB – should have said looking forward to meeting you again too – especially as you’ll still have your chin!

    385. Cactus says:

      If the jukebox is on, don’t mind if I do.

      The Marmalade ~ Rainbow (East-end Glasgow band)

    386. TJenny says:

      Marcia’s just posted this on the other thread:

      ‘Scotland on Sunday poll
      (excluding Undecideds)

      Yes 48%
      No 52%’

      Which month will see us reaching 50%, June, July?

    387. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –

      Cheers. I remember ye well from the night – hope to see you again, perhaps in Dundee.

      More power to ye friend.

    388. Jock Scot says:

      At the rate the polls are changing maybe we can ‘toast’ a poll which has Yes at least equal by the 9th May in time for the Broughty Ferry get together

    389. CameronB says:

      Question Time, Dundee 23/01/14

    390. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Aw Cactus.
      Marmalade – one of my fave bands.
      Jimi Hendrix reckoned this was the best single of 1967.
      My fave Marmalade single…

    391. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

      Apologies for the length of this, I constructed my thoughts in reply to a thread on a pro-Indy group on Facebook and I hoped they might help in some small way here too.


      Ok, back to Gogglebox for a mo. I have 7ish very close friends in different parts of England, with whom I’ve had a degree of … Friction, shall we say … over the past 18 months as I quickly went from a passive instinctive Yes voter, to a very engaged, activist, well informed, fact rich and vocal Yes voter. I’ll admit I was probably a bit evangelical about Yes to begin with and fairly critical of the status quo and the inert, blinkered main stream media, and the terrible injustice of it all. I thought I was being clear on the reasons and rational, but over time we had arguments. I would be critical of the BBC and Press, for example, but they just couldn’t see it. Partly because the things that annoyed me weren’t being broadcast / printed to them outwith Scotland and partly because they hadn’t gone through the thought process and critique to spot the wrongs … they thought I was being tiresome at best and destructive at worse. Tiresome? Well, things have been as they always have been and I guess they were of the opinion that you couldn’t change a country or a society model. Destructive because they feared the break up of the UK and how it might make their lives economically, culturally or societally poorer. Now these are all well educated, travelled, read, morally well centred, open minded and intellectually enlightened people who have had the benefit of a good education, have well paid jobs, are socially mobile and already have a healthy cynicism and distrust of the current Westminster system of Government …

      … But some of them did, for example, think that Scotland got back more as block grant than was raised by tax, they didn’t know about the UKs terrible social inequality compared to other EU nations, didn’t know that the armed forces North of the Border had been stripped in recent years, etc, etc. it’s a very long list and I could go on and fill pages … So I won’t.

      But, if my erudite, well educated, independent, critically minded, healthily cynical and intellectually curious friends didn’t know all the information and context, well your ‘ordinary’ citizen of rUK, such as we see on Gogglebox hasn’t a buggerybollocks hope in hell, do they! They (the masses of rUK) have been raised down generations being fed all the same “Too wee, too poor, too stupid” guff, in many different ways and on many different levels, as we have, about Scotland and have absorbed it as unalienable truth. Some of them even have had a subconscious belief that England is “better” than other countries (call it the Last Night Of The Proms effect, or the Presidents pet dog syndrome) so anything that Scotland does to threaten the UK threatens their motherland, rather than being broadly neutral.

      In the early days of my evangelical conversion I had some rather heated debates with two friends in particular, although as one is Welsh and the other born in Germany (to then serving military in the UK forces), I couldn’t fathom their motivations it at all. Our friendship suffered quite a few knocks, before eventually it dawned on me that they were feeling as if fundamental tenets and constructs of their society were being threatened and they’d almost done a decision at a subconscious level that ‘The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few’. In the absence of proper facts their gut feeling was that anything that benefited Scotland, must ipso facto, be automatically to the detriment of rUK and it’s greater population … perhaps as there is only so much wealth and opportunity to go around.

      It’s been a slow, steady and careful drip, drip of information, references, articles over the past year to help them along a journey. Although they may not be voting in September, they really need to have the same information we do and the same hope and optimism that a better future can be fought for and won, but for them and the better England, Wales and Northern Ireland that’s out there waiting, just out of reach, in a future that they need to start making happen.

      Spot the problem? They are not going to be motivated to find out the truth … or at least seek a second opinion as no one from an authoritative source is telling them the facts are not as they currently understand them to be … and by God they are not going to get it from BBC regions reporting or the likes of the Daily Mail, are they!

      Our opportunity is #ProjectFear and it’s increasing shrill and desperate large scale disinformation and negativity tactic that’s been shown to be utterly false and has just blown up now in rUK after previously descending into discredited farcical nonsense up in the North British Territories.

      Previously, us Scots could see the utter mince spoken by Lamont, Jackie Baillie, Alistair Darling & Co not just at FMQ, but also spoken to the press and TV media … as we have other, authoritative, challenging, fact based Voices that challenge them, such as Wings Over Scotland, Bella Caledonia, Newsnetscotland, National Collective, Lallands Peat Worrier, Wee Ginger Dug and many others. We have harnessed Social Media in an amazing, lithe, confident, fleet footed way and we have run RINGS around Better Together.

      Down in rUK? Well, not so much, but thankfully George Robertson made such a large scale, ill judged, monumental gaff with ‘Forces of Darkness’ that it’s been reported, discussed and well, to be honest, mocked, in every newspaper, on every TV channel and has become pretty well known amongst the rUK public. ‘Hang on’, the citizens of rUK are thinking, ‘He’s talking bollocks’ and I believe it’s grabbed their attention and broken their apathy about the whole Independence debate. Then the BBC widely quoted Alex Salmond’s keynote speech back to them about the negativity of the Better Together campaign. Even if they don’t like Alex Salmond, the cat is out of the bag and I think they are going to be receptive now.

      So, what next? Us. We are all next.

      We have to keep reminding ourselves that the ordinary people of the UK are not our enemy. They are being lied to and screwed over by Westminster and by their political parties too, they just hadn’t realised it yet and at present there is no big, red, shiny button they can press labelled “Emergency Exit”, such as we have available to us in September. We cannot allow ourselves to become angry or confrontational with them. We must continue to be positive, calm, and do our best to inform … Let the facts speak for themselves.

      Remember the friends I mentioned earlier? They no longer argue against my postings about #Indyref on Facebook and Twitter. Indeed, one of them has started making some of his own … Spotting the story about George Robertson making tentative overtures to get Russia into NATO, before I did and forwarding it on to his social media groups. That is a real victory.

      Hey, let’s be careful out there 🙂

    392. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Gavin, That was a brilliant piece of typing!
      I may copy and share that elsewhere…

    393. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

      Brian, you are very welcome. 🙂 If anyone else appreciates it, should I mention it to Rev Stu? Or do you think he purposefully and comprehensively reads everything posted by others? 🙂

    394. ronnie anderson says:

      @Gavin Barrie (jammach ) You can rest assured the Rev Stu reads everything,or he,s made aware of posts in private,fart on this site he gets a whiff, eyes an ears everywhere.

    395. Thepnr says:

      Great piece of writing Gavin. Thanks.

    396. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Could you please drop me a swift e-mail? I’ve been trying to message you the livestream man’s details but it keeps pinging back – don’t know if you’ve another address I should be using but that’s the only one I have.

    397. Cactus says:

      Cheers Brian Doonthetoon.
      A good friend introduced me to The Marmalade a few years ago, cracking band.

      Keeping with the Scottish theme, here’s one of my friends doing a short dedication to an alcoholic drink made in The Caledonian Brewery, Edinburgh, Scotland (I understand it’s Edinburgh’s last remaining brewery?)

      Craig Ralston ~ Deuchars

      Hope all you overseas folk are enjoying the Scottish music, cheers.

    398. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Anybody up there, what was Marmalade’s first name.

      Nae googlin!

    399. Paula Rose says:

      @ BtP

      The Gaylords!

    400. Paula Rose says:

      Whilst on the theme of citrus fruit – rip it up and start again…

    401. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Dean Ford and the Gaylords

    402. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Paula Rose, anyone?

      Anybody like modern Tango music?

      Try this video.

    403. call me dave says:

      Barcelona v Athletico Bilbao links for 8pm

    404. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BTP –

      That was excellent. Never saw that before. It’s just such a shame they used the tune for a fucking dishwasher tablet advert (or whatever it was).

      Nothing’s sacred!

    405. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      I can’t get British TV here.

    406. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BTP –

      Nae luck 😀

    407. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      nae BBC either

    408. Paula Rose says:

      Only Wings Over Scotland brings you the finest citrus tunes –

    409. Paula Rose says:

      And I JUST have to share this with you my dear fledgelings –

    410. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Paula, here’s one for you:

    411. Paula Rose says:

      Ian darling how sweet – she does it wright

    412. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula –

      Great. Cheers.

      One of the first singles I bought was ‘Milk & Alcohol’.

      And what are the chances of lovable, totally-bonkers Wilko Johnson turning up in consecutive videos, but in different bands? I had his Solid Senders album, and saw him play as one of the Blockheads in Glasgow, must’ve been ’81 or ’82. Happy days…

    413. Paula Rose says:

      Ian – such exquisite taste, for you – plus another great guitarist, cool

    414. Ian Brotherhood says:


      Can’t thank you enough for that – thought I’d seen pretty much all of Dury’s live stuff, but that was a new one, and one of the best.


    415. Paula Rose says:

      Ian honey – presume ye ken the early days?

    416. Paula Rose says:

      Well it ain’t what you do…

    417. Ian Brotherhood says:


      I must confess, I did own the Kilburns album. A lot of it was dodgy, but I was starstruck by Dury, adored him. He was a chancer in some ways, but he got away with it and had, I suppose, a ‘good life’. His encounter with Omar Sharif is, in itself, enough to cement his reputation forever.

      Here’s a wee teaser for you – what’s the connection between Ian Dury and (Sir) Richard Stilgoe? (i.e. the self-satisfied bearded fucker who used to appear on Esther Rantzen’s ‘That’s Life’, doing Edwardian-style piano-accompanied skits on topical issues?)

    418. Paula Rose says:

      Ian – no idea but give us 10 minutes and I’ll have googled the answer. What’s the connection between all members of Kilburn and the High Roads?

    419. Paula Rose says:


    420. Paula Rose says:

      btw Ian darling shall I book us a Jolly room for the Ferry night out?

    421. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Paula –

      No need for that, but thanks all the same. If I do make it to Dundee, it will be with sleeping-bag in hand, and no-one’s getting inside it bar me.

      Anyway – on the Stilgoe/Dury poser, the answer is…wait for it…

      Ian Dury was the first choice of that Andrew Lloyd-Webber character to do the lyrics for ‘Cats’. It was a seven figure sum offered (and we’re talking, what 25 years ago?) but Dury knocked it back because he hated the guy’s music. Stilgoe was next choice, and accepted.

    422. Ian Brotherhood says:


      PS The connection between all the Kilburn members is that they went to the same Art School? Not 100% sure of that one, but honestly haven’t googled…Humphrey Ocean, Davey Payne, Charley Charles…pre-Chaz Jankel days.

    423. Paula Rose says:

      They all had a disability – mostly being artists.

    424. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula –


      Nice one. Never knew that.

    425. Paula Rose says:

      And if ever anyone says that Scotland has no culture… here it is

    426. Paula Rose says:

      I just love good sculpture…

    427. David says:

      Dangnabit, sorry Rev, I think I’ve just posted a link to Youtube without removing the http bit of the address. 🙁

      Fiddlesticks and goshdarnit.

    428. Taranaich says:

      Can’t believe it’s taken me this long to post in Off-topic!

      Right, as some of you know, I’m interested in getting in this blogging lark. I’ve already had a fair bit of success on The Cimmerian (Robert E. Howard scholarship website) and I have The Blog That Time Forgot too, but I made a special effort to make it non-political, especially since I can be rather impassioned about certain things. I had at first intended the Bannockburn Comic Blog to also be more political, but the more I think about it, the more I want Bannockburn to echo its own story – of disparate tribes and peoples forming a mongrel nation. So aside from that one post, I haven’t talked much about the referendum.

      But as the date draws near, I’m getting more and more anxious to get my voice out there. Much of my confidence in my later life has been a result of my success in writing, and I haven’t quite mustered the gumption to start up my own pro-indy blog. So I think I might just post my random thoughts & musings here, and get a bit of crowdsourced feedback!

      Anyway, here’s one:


      I’ve been an SNP man for all my voting life, and I owe it all to my mother. My family are from a very work-conscious background, albeit not necessarily working class, so they were big Labour voters. My mother, however, has been dedicated to the SNP since she could vote. She was there for “It’s Scotland’s Oil,” she stuck through the ridicule for their “paranoia” (later vindicated, and to this day there are files regarding the SNP still sealed for reasons of “national security”), the fractures of Siol nan Gaidheal and the first SSP, where nobody took them seriously.

      I was disillusioned early on: I saw what Blair did with New Labour, the Conservatives were the Conservatives, and as soon as I heard Charles Kennedy say he would’ve supported the invasion of Afghanistan (but not Iraq), I knew I couldn’t vote for the Lib Dems in any conscience. The only party which represented my values at the time was the SNP, and I would be damned if I would vote tactically if it meant supporting a war that could never achieve its aims. Right now, little has changed: I’m still an SNP man, and in the event of independence, I don’t know if I could stomach any of the Westminster parties’ regional branches in Scotland continued existence.

      But that’s not to say I’m SNP only – on the contrary, I greatly value alternative parties. We NEED them. My views, my values, my favoured policies are my own – but not everyone shares them. So there needs to be more parties which reflect the views, values, and favoured policies of the rest of the populace. The Westminster style is of The Government and The Opposition, a dualistic approach that treats the governance of society like a bitter game. The Scottish parliament is different, despite the best efforts of its Westminster branches: the more reasonable members and ministers work together for the betterment of Scotland.

      That is why I’m an SNP supporter who’s also a proud and unreserved admirer of the Greens, the SSP, and particularly groups like Radical Independence Campaign. I have many agreements and disagreements with all these parties, but I most assuredly respect them as genuine differences of opinion – not the cynically musteline pseudo-beliefs of the vote-chasers in Westminster. The foundations for a new kind of politics are already here in Scotland: what about a new kind of electorate?

      I attended Indyclyde, a fundraising event on the 18th of April in my home town. I’ve become vaguely pally with several of the organisers, including the astounding Sean Paul O’Connor. This is a young man with the combination of vision, passion and intellect who can challenge the state of the world: if he was born in 334 B.C. he’d give Alexander the Great a run for his money. So with no small support from his equally passionate mother and the RIC, Indyclyde attracted 150 people for a night of speakers, comedy, song and good cheer – certainly enough for a big shiny banner!

      We had talks from Shona MacAlpine, Johnathan Shafti and Cat Boyd; comedy from Nessa Johnstone & Callum Rodgers; music from Zara Gladman (of Lady Caesar! fame!) and a whole medley of bands; a general night of boisterous merriment. Zara even serenaded me for a bit! I spent most of the evening outside chatting, though, couldn’t really hear anything inside.

      Big social gatherings are far from my thing. If you called me an introvert, I’d ask you how the hell you broke into my underground vault. But I made the effort, because things like this are important – and there’s something different about Yes events which puts all my social anxieties and fears completely at rest. Everyone there, from all walks of life, all backgrounds, creeds, ethnoi and nationality, could rely on one thing – they all agreed on Scotland’s nationhood. It’s a pretty great icebreaker, if nothing else: “so, how did you come to the conclusion that Scots should govern themselves?”

      It can be a bit overwhelming. Being in the company of people where you knew, if absolutely nothing else, you weren’t going to disagree with them on the matter of Scottish Independence, is an incredible feeling. I felt that if tensions ever got high, we could just remember what we were here for: any tension was floundered by the tide of passion.

      And passion it is: whenever a gentleman spoke on independence, I felt the part of my mind which locked in the determination to march through the Gates of Fire by their side. Whenever a woman spoke, I fell the same rush of love and mad adoration that almost saw my knee bend reflexively as I rummaged in my pocket for a phantom engagement ring. (Profuse apologies to Shona, Cat and Zara!) It was love, love I felt for these people: manifested slightly differently (I didn’t want to marry any of the gentlemen, though maybe it was just that none of them were my type), but love all the same.

      This is what struck me the most: when was the last time I felt that kind of shared community united by a common political aim? I’ve felt it at Howard Days, where people all across the world congregate in little Cross Plains, Texas to talk about their favourite author; I’ve felt it at conventions, gatherings, and others meetings for similar purposes. But for politics? This was new to me – why? After a generation or more of concerted disenfranchisement by the Westminster machine, where low turnouts suit them just fine, the idea of politics being corrupt, self-serving and cynical was normalised. People started to believe that it was always this way – and that it always would be so.

      Sean Paul O’Connor showed otherwise. Cat Boyd showed otherwise. Politics in Scotland is already changing – regardless of the vote in September, a new Scotland is coming. A Scotland where the people are more and more engaged in the running of their own affairs; a Scotland where politics unites rather than divides communities; a Scotland that welcomes and integrates rather than shun and partition. An independent Scotland will simply ratify this change, make it certain, make it official.

    429. Flower of Scotland says:


      Great post! Sums up pretty much how I feel. I’ve been an SNP member for forever but have always known that it contained all parties in one goal to get Independence! We will get it if we all work together!

    430. ronnie anderson says:

      @Taranaich,A well worded pieceof heart & mind. Yes you should do your own blog,nows the time when we need people like yourself, open honest expression of oneself,& thats what we need to have people do examine themselves.

      dont be hiding in Off Topic,I know you put it up on a main thread , but I did’nt read it,not for any other reason other than I forgot where I had stopped reading the posts.

    431. Jock Scot says:

      @ronnie anderson
      loving the encouragement you give out and the shed, also thanks for saying cool shit about Yew Choob

    432. TJenny says:

      Jock Scott – passed the links to Yew Choob (On the Underground + London Calling) and there are now oodles of people out there who think Yew Choob’s fab, inc me. 🙂

    433. Jock Scot says:

      @T Jenny
      Hi, Ninja Penguin told me and I saw the thread so thanks for the shares and the kind words…really enjoyed doing the Underground vid and the fact that peeps were saying cool things, put a marichino(?) cherry on top of the whole experience.Will make a point of keeping up with and commenting more. Ta for getting in touch.

    434. kininvie says:


      Go for it – why not? That’s a great post. Just sign up with WordPress (much the easiest platform) copy & paste and you’re away! Good luck.

    435. kininvie says:

      @Jock Scot

      Wierd thing abou the Underground vid was I kept having mental overlays of the Olympic opening ceremony version…

    436. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Taranaich –

      FWIW, I echo what Kininvie just posted. If you don’t do it now, then when?

      More power to ye mister.

    437. TJenny says:

      Jock Scott – you’re very welcome. Look forward to hearing more from you on WOS and YT.

    438. TJenny says:

      JS – sos for extra t. 🙁

    439. Jock Scot says:

      can I have some of what u got ,lol

      @T Jenny
      no sweat

    440. SquareHaggis says:

      Catch me here


    441. ronnie anderson says:

      @Jock Scott, Hi Jock You deserve more that a wee comment from me, your a artist, & can reach a far more wider adiuence than a lot of us, put up your funding site details I have a hand itching to give You a few bob,mind no fur the swally,but tae produce mair pish rippin vidio’s,or I should say brilliant satorial proggrammes,
      mair power tae you Jock. Put up your funding link.

    442. Taranaich says:

      Thanks folks! I think I’m going to do it. The question is, what to name it…

    443. Taranaich says:

      Alright folks, I’ve done it, I’ve started up a blog! I call it “A Wilderness of Peace,” after the famous Tacitus quotation attributed to Calgacus, which you can now visit by clicking on my username. You are cordially invited to come over and say hello. 🙂

    444. Grouse Beater says:


      I noticed some troll or other irritant getting a dig in about the “reverend” prefix being fake. I know nothing much about you – it didn’t stop me send my children’s inheritance to the fighting fund – but was the troll being snarky or direct? If an assumed title, why that choice? Did it arise out of a video game you were associated?

    445. Donald says:

      Anyone know where I can get Aye Right business cards?

    446. Paula Rose says:

      A wilderness of peace is a lovely place to be.

    447. caz-m says:

      First time in here

    448. ronnie anderson says:

      @Taranaich, or should I say Mr Al, I look forward to reading more from you.

    449. Jim T says:


      I’ve been trying to add a response to your first offering and keep hitting a problem with WordPress not wanting to recognise either my username/e-mail or password.

      Suffice to say, thanks for taking the plunge and I’m sure you’ll develop a decent sized following in a short time.

      Nice one.

    450. Taranaich says:

      Thanks, folks! Jim T, not sure what’s going on there: I’ll see what can be done. I think the Rev has a good system for comments (first-time comments moderated to reduce spam), but I’d really be happy for anyone to comment.

    451. Croompenstein says:

      wee song for the bitters..

    452. CameronB says:

      Especially for fairiefromtheearth. 🙂

      Jackie Mittoo – Hang Em High

    453. Croompenstein says:

      Well done Taranaich, have left a comment on your blog, dig the photo on your page is that one of your own pics?

    454. heraldnomore says:

      Co-Op suspend ex-accountant from Board runs the headline.

      Munir Malik’s membership of ICAEW was terminated when he was made bankrupt 23 years ago. But on Co-Op Board re-election papers he continued to claim to be a qualified accountant. Co-Op of course have not been without their financial problems, even leaving aside the funding and loans in favour of the Labour Party.

      Malik it seems holds a position as a councillor, in Bexley, where he wears a red rosette and represents said Party.

    455. Taranaich says:

      Cheers, Croompenstein, it is indeed one of my own: it’s the sky above the Holy Loch. I’m going to be doing a post on Polaris & Trident in the future.

    456. Croompenstein says:

      Look forward to that Taranaich, I found the herald link on McMillan and Polaris quite interesting

    457. David says:

      @ Grouse Beater, I think the mystery about the Rev Stu’s clerical status is a godsend (LOL) for him and for YES, long may it continue.

      There are many NO supporters who waste their time and energy looking into this, trying to work out which church he is in, etc., and all they are doing is going off on a wild goose chase. Whether he is an ordained rev or not is TOTALLY irrelevant to his writing, it neither adds to nor detracts from it. They might as well ask what colour socks he is wearing.

      But as long as the NOers get all het up about this non-issue, as long as their efforts are mis-directed, the more we should like it. Even better is, what do they hope to gain from their investigation? Do they think that Rev Stu saying, “yeah it’s a nickname” or “no, I’m a real Rev, look here’s my degree in divinity I paid $10 for in Vegas” would be an embarrassment? Really, it’s a complete non-story.

      I’ve got news for these obsessives: outside their little circle, nobody cares. What we care about are thinks like food banks, nuclear weapons on the Clyde, and re-establishing democracy in Scotland.

      And just to further their education, Screaming Lord Sutch wasn’t a peer; Dr Dick’s midnight surgery was a DJ’s radio show; Professor Longhair was a musician not a teacher; and Prince isn’t, actually, a prince. I know, had me fooled too. 🙂

    458. Taysideterrier says:

      Just came across this barrel of laughs frothing at the mouth rightwing nutjob on twatter, search for @happytobetommy

    459. caz-m says:

      Queen, “I Want To Break Free”,

      My feeling towards Westminster.

    460. Thepnr says:

      Well said David. Who cares who is giving us food for thought? The Rev and the other contributors and every commentator on this blog are giving us what we need. The facts, the debate and everything BT complains about not having.

      There are a whole lot more on here that don’t give a shit whether he is a REV or has a PHd or a million in the bank either. He is doing the business.

      Searching for smears…why bother? Too late for that now their whole campaign has been one big smear and it is failing. Badly might I add.

      Grouse Beater, just why did you ask?

    461. Jock Scot says:

      @ronnie anderson
      Hi Ronnie

      First, CHEERS

      Second, Wi’the kind sharing on facebook,BBC Scotlandshire and now Wings we have managed over 21k views for Yew Choob so we are getting ‘out there’ so to speak

      Third, We don’t have a funding link cos we only spend about £3 per video and that’s to download the track so naebody gies us a hard time.

      Fourth, prefer your “pish rippin vidio’s” description..couldn’t have put it better

      Fifth, Power to ye and yir wit ‘n’ wisdom

    462. Thepnr says:

      @Jock Scot
      I tried to put this earlier but am an a bad zone for access.

      Anyway Yew Choob if effing brilliant, I pass it on as much as I can. Absolutely love it here’s my favorite so far.

      Love the George Osborne, mor power to yer talent.

    463. Paula Rose says:

      I don’t know much about betting – but I do remember a comment by a guy on a Yes page where he pointed out that an anagram of ‘Better Together’ is ‘the bet to regret’.

    464. Thepnr says:

      @Joct Scot

      You are 1st in the Indy campaign, Lady Caesar! a poor second though I love her vid, maybe collaborate? :o)

    465. Paula Rose says:

      @ Thepnr – and one for you xx

    466. Jock Scot says:


      Cheers for the kind words but I must mention our secret weapon who is Ninja Penguin. As far as a collaboration with Lady Caesar!..if anyone knows her,… as Ninja Penguin is being limited by having only me singing the songs, so if Lady A or any other singing Wosers are reading this then pls get in touch with either myself or Ninja P or my big Sis Janet Scot if you would like to sing in one of the vids..even backing

    467. caz-m says:

      Hello there, this place is like a different world.

    468. caz-m says:


      Stan n Ollie BRILLIANT lol xx

    469. Paula Rose says:

      @ caz-m, that’s the point – we stuggled hard to get the Rev to give us our own bit of heaven!

    470. Paula Rose says:

      oops – missed an ‘r’ – no oysters.

    471. caz-m says:


      I will be going to bed in a good mood tonight, I think G Brown just added thousands of votes to the YES camp today.

    472. caz-m says:

      Why no oysters??????

    473. Thepnr says:

      OK I’m the skinny one. Garthamlock in 1976. The other’s my cousin. He’s passed away I’m still here and I’m fighting till Sept 18th..


    474. Paula Rose says:

      @ caz-m (if you’re still up) – oysters breed in the months that don’t have an ‘r’ n them.

    475. Thepnr says:

      Doesn’t work, I know now why.

      Try this:


    476. Paula Rose says:

      @ Thepnr – the dude on the right?

    477. caz-m says:

      Am still here,

      Just looking out my onesie, my teddy bear, hot water bottle, cup of Horlicks, and a good book for company.

    478. Thepnr says:

      Did you see that Paula? Yeah the dude on the right.

    479. Paula Rose says:

      @ Thepnr – handsome boy, did you see the message I sent you on your facebook page?

    480. caz-m says:


      This is for you. x

    481. Paula Rose says:

      @caz-m, just a wee lullabye, a new rose

    482. Paula Rose says:

      (caz-m, one of my all time faves, thank you)

    483. caz-m says:

      A lullabye. It has woke be back up again. lol

      The Damned New Rose

      Named after you. Is that your real name , Paula Rose??

      Where you a punk in the 70s???

    484. Thepnr says:


      Guess you sent it to the wrong facebook page. I haven’t got it yet. Go back to LLI facebook page and you’ll find me again. Maybe?

    485. Thepnr says:

      I loved the Dammed, New Rose, Paula’s a plant LOL

    486. Grouse Beater says:

      @ Taranaich

      I’ve done it, I’ve started up a blog!

      Well done and good luck.

      I began mine late in January and thought it would be a pain bto write a regular column … now they rush forth at four a week! grousebeater.wordpress.

      I’ll hae a gander at your blog….

    487. Paula Rose says:

      @ Thpnr, don’t understand why you haven’t got my messages so heres my email -paula(all on word)mb(apart from the bits in brackets)rose(obviously)wrigt – then one of those atty things,

    488. Votadini Jeannie says:

      First visit to off-topic and I’m here to ask for help from you all.

      I’m currently building a web resource of Scottish names as part of a university project, and I’m determined to get every single Scottish name ever onto it. So far I’ve gathered just under 1,900 names but I’m sure there must be more.

      Any help you can give in tracking down some of the more unusual names would be hugely appeciated, especially regional names which didn’t catch on elsewhere, or have fallen out of use.

      Orcadian or Shetlandic names are doubly welcome, especially if accompanied by a pronunciation guide!

      The project will become a live website in due course, and in time for the referendum – it’s a common feature of newly-independent countries that there is a resurgence of interest in their own culture and baby names are a part of that. So please help out if you can – all contributors of names/pronunciation which I don’t already have will be credited on the live site once it happens.


      V Jeannie

    489. Taranaich says:

      I read it too, very interesting.

      I’ve also put up “Another Scotland Is Coming” on the blog itself, will add pictures.

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