Mushroom food
Posted on
November 15, 2020 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We were going to write a post about today’s Sunday National front page lead story, but it would just have been an angry rant, so instead we’ll let our readers make their own judgements on how convinced they are by this bloviating guff:
Try to keep it clean, folks.
Hold……?????
Again…..
Headlines:- SNP take large shareholding in carrot farm
Well done Lesley.
“Well done Lesley.”
Aye, not bad, although she rather let him off the hook on why the Scottish Government is actively obstructing Martin Keatings.
I had already watched this and it seems all politicians are the same and will not answer a question no matter how often it is asked. Fair play to him for turning up but not any the wiser on what the SNP are playing at other than watching their backs and topping up the pension pot. Looks like we will have to work for Indy without a large chunk of the SNP. Sad.
One more mandate…..Gold Standard…pull together….ask for another mandate….position of strength.
*sigh*
A turd, however lovingly polished, remains just a turd.
That dismissive and weary sounding “yeah” as the first word to his first answer said it all. Contained right here in that brief, joyless first utterance.
That man is 100% politician and 0% freedom fighter.
O?T.
Scotland currently losing 1-0 to Slovakia.
link to hesgoal.com
i used to be quite indignant when they would cut away from him talking but after hearing him talk i realised they were actually doing him a favour!
“Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against its will”
Sorry Ian could we just do that again. Things have moved on.
“Yes but its important. It has become my catchphrase”.
Yes Ian but what about a referendum.
“Oh that.All in hand. Scotland will not be refused a referendum against its will”
We will take a commercial break there.
So it’s not about “us”, it’s all about that massive tv audience for PMQs who are suddenly flocking to support independence in their droves after witnessing the 142nd insult to an SNP MP?
*except at the same time it is about “us” when we’ve to vote for them yet again next year before we get to unlock the next level. Hmm.
No one was swallowing it yesterday. The chatbox was on FIRE with comments (not good ones).
Watch it again and you’ll see that Lesley quickly becomes more engrossed in the chat than what he’s saying, just as we all did!
Having to do this in 5 minute chunks – up to minute 15 now.
highlights so far…
‘I believe’ (Boris will eventually say yes to S30)
‘We’re listening’ (to the Yes Movement) – they’d better keep hold of this one, like new Labour, they’re going to need it.
‘There are things we can do if WM says No’ Which begs the question why they haven’t started ‘doing’ them so far.
Elect the SNP, yet another mandate, Gold Standard, ‘
I did get a laugh when he said about the SNP at WM having the ability to be a ‘thorn in the side’….. Only if waffling, boring, pish is considered to be ‘thorny’.
Perhaps we should re-name him Ian Barbford. The Gael Force Prick of the North. That’ll scare em.
Not exactly inspiring is it. And for those who say, its not aimed at us, its aimed at No Voters – fuck off. Those No voters are most likely to respond to ‘strong leadership’. Not this insipid, lacklustre, dull as ditchwater, mealymoothed – PISH.
Why would I now believe the man who said so often that we would not be taken out of the EU against our will? I was naive enough to believe him the first time, when many party loyalists reassured us the SNP had it all gamed out and there was no need to fret.
Of course, Mr Blackford may have a Cunning Plan which he will deploy brilliantly in the next six weeks……
Waffle.
No plan no passion no strategy no committment no referendum.
As I have said before, Blackford has no fire in his belly only pudding.
Ms Riddoch is far too professional to actually do it, but her face was saying ‘Ach, FFS…’ for most of the 22 mins.
Embarrassing shitery from Blackford.
Anyone who defends this rubbish needs their heid looked at.
Up to 18:35 now – its not getting any better
What will you do, to show WM it has crossed a line (with Brexit)
‘It stengthens our resolve to win the Holyrood Election and build support for a Referendum’
FUCK OFF, YOU USELESS FANNY.
‘In may ways we’ve already left the EU’
No Ian – we have not, not until Transition is over, and in that time period – you were supposed to DO STUFF to ensure ‘Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against our will’.
Anyone, anyone at all, who is still clinging to hope, against hope, that ‘once the terms of Brexit are known’ the current SNP will pull their fingers out their arses and Campaign to Save Scotland, needs to get their heads examined.
Self serving, spineless, corrupt, two faced, surrender monkeys.
Long story short: the SNP is a unionist party.
Gold standard diarrhoea, every excreted word of it.
Just as a matter of interest, are there any mistakes in this analysis from ISP?
link to isp.scot
He confirms the old adage that too much banking makes you go bland.
Least I think that was the adage.
19:30 first outright lie.
If you win an outright majority at Holyrood and request a 30 order – how much time will you give them to reply before you do something.
‘It will have to be done in a timely manner…. in 2021.’
It takes a minimum of 9 months to hold a referendum. Lets count shall we, and for the sake of argument assume Westminster replies with a No on the day it receives it.
May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December = 8 Months.
Oh dear. Whoopsie.
To successfully grow mushrooms you just keep them in the dark,(referendum plans) feed them manure (A la Blackford against our will etc) ,then cut them off at the root.(challenge the Keatings case)
Sound familiar to anybody? The SNP can sure grow mushrooms.
Lesley missed her chance here. She should simply repeat the question ‘what are you going to do when they say no?’ (which they will). Then when Blackford keeps waffling end the interview.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Mushroom food We were going to write a post about today’s Sunday National front page lead story, […]
As Lesley puts it we just can’t pin the SNP down on the things we need to know.
Meanwhile I’m told the ringfenced indy funds are in here and are actually £879,000 now by The Dugs faithful. Page 27, note 20.
link to search.electoralcommission.org.uk
Lesley: “what strategy?”
Exactly.
I wonder if the bold Blackford realises that many of us “watching the disrespect” shown to him and most of his colleagues are actually feeling that very same disrespect for them, albeit for sheer uselessness and obfuscation, rather than the country they hail from and represent.
What in polite circles is referred to as a ‘Purveyor of Quality Bovine Manure’.
On the mushroom theme it has to be said that Blackford is no champignon for independence.
The YES movement never went away
Wish Lesley had pushed him further about the Martin Keatings Case. His answer sounded basically like “it’s not a good thing because it’s not the SNP doing it”
More carrot dangling. Scotland, we’re no fucking donkeys!
After his repeated promise “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will”, on which he and his party have reneged, why should anyone believe a word he says. He’s full of hot air – aw fur coat and nae knickers.
Daisy Walker says:
15 November, 2020 at 3:48 pm
“Up to 18:35 now – its not getting any better”
You managed far more than I did. I might try again at bedtime and see if it helps my insomnia.
They could name a storm after him. Storm blowhard! Does anyone believe him any more?
Blackford has had 10 years in power, he has seen mandate after mandate,
Westminster insult after insult, power grab after power grab so let’s be nice,
ask again, and if they say no we will stamp our feet and say that’s not nice?
I feel the same disrespect shown to the SNP in Westminster as is shown by the SNP in Holyrood towards the electorate in Scotland. Same shit.
Tinto chiel @ 3,43pm.et al : This, this ,this.
What if I keep giving blowhard blackford mandate after mandate ? He has squandered seven previous mandates and not yet layed a glove on the tories, red tories, bbc or stv. Scotland wants independence. All that is lacking is leadership.
Blackford and the murrells et al have failed to deliver and the SNP footsoldiers are rightly furious. I believe now more than 75,000 people have left the party.
“Call it or resign.” This should be the new motto of the SNP.
Bland bullshit.
Well, that was 20 mins I won’t get back.
Good effort by Lesley though.
FFS! Seriously? Vote for us and we’ll ask again for a Section 30?
“How dare they!” Fkin hell it’s no wonder they all get treated with utter contempt down there.
F U wie yer gold standard asking for S30 again n again when the SNP/SGov are opposing Martin Keating’s challenge to the S30 order in the Court of Sessions & the Right’s of the Sovereign People of Scotland & FK Auob shower of SCAMMERS
I’m sorry I could only last 94 seconds.
Whae’s ‘Ian Blackford’? 🙂
Amen Ronnie, amen!
I’ve taken to shutting the sound off every time Ian Blackford speaks. I prefer to shout at him because fucking hell!!!
Well, at least he committed several times to a referendum next year.
If there is one then I will give it my total support. If there is any deviation from that then it is goodbye SNP.
@Mags says:
15 November, 2020 at 3:28 pm
“i used to be quite indignant when they would cut away from him talking but after hearing him talk i realised they were actually doing him a favour!”
That’s why he gets the piss taken out of him every PMQs. Angus Robertson was much the same. Watch some old footage of Salmond at PMQs and you will see the difference.
I gave up after the first question. Almost 3 minutes of typical political don’t-answer-the-question-because-the-interviewer-is-on-a-tight-schedule.
One thing he would be good at is filibusting. He doesn’t know when to shut up.
I think a new YES group has to war game it’s own strategies for gaining independence.
For me now a section 30 is the worst outcome we could hope for given how the dice will be loaded against us and jokers like Neil Findlay will campaign for a third option on the ballot.
It could mean for example a challenger pro-indy party competing for WM seats with a Declaration of Independence should they have a majority of MPs.
We need to increase awareness of things like mark macnaught’s digital Covenant
“Thaur he blows!”
Blah blah blackford,
Have you any refs?
no sirreee!
Well Goodbye SNP, the new Labour of Scotland party !! Pitiful excuses
Jeez, this is dire stuff from Ian. We know WM hates the SNP, we know they don’t respect us, we know this is a sham Union, we know Brexit is coning and the Internal Market Bill But what we still don’t know is what YOU will do that’s a practical way forward.
20 minutes of guff.
Ian, you’re one of the reasons I have left the SNP. Politically Clueless
No firm date for a referendum then no firm vote for the SNP.
I don’t believe there is any interest in independence within the majority of the SNP.
Ian sounds like an old Scottish Labour politician.
I will support the SNP next year and would encourage others to do so.
If they do not produce the goods next year and sadly I don’t think they will it will be time for our new party for independence.
Ian Brotherhood @ 3.48pm
On this, and on the “exclusive interview” in the National where apparently he’s naming a date, there is silence.
Silence from the fanclub, and silence from all the MP/MSP/Cllr/SpAd/SNP official accounts.
No celebrations, no defending against those calling out this utter nonsense, nothing.
How peculiar??
What a depressing, lack-lustre character. But for the fact that Scottish independence means so much to me I’d be laughing at him. He and his cronies obviously consider all SNP members brainless. Fight? Flight would be nearer the mark.
I’m still considering whether or not to leave the “great” Party.
As far as I’m concerned they’ll have to drop these waffling types and bring forward the true Salmond Party.
“Build support for a referendum” …. Dear oh dear oh dear.
What would Margot MacDonald and anyone at all with some gumption or commonsense be doing – in fact have done any time since 2016?
Answer: hold another referendum to see exactly where we were in terms of support for regaining independence OR declare independence and see what happened.
Being stopped by our own side from even asking the question is maddening. They are so trusting – I am terrified of what is happening under Westminster rule. Why aren’t the SNP “leadership”?
Mind you, I was at a wedding [outdoor] yesterday and talking independence to a very intelligent and compassionate couple who voted Yes in 2014 – they both said they weren’t keen on Alex Salmond, thought NS was doing a good job as leader in the covid crisis, and that now isn’t the right time for a referendum. Self and spouse told them a few reasons for taking a different line but apart from asking where to look for information [Wings, I said!] I could tell they were unconvinced at the urgent necessity for independence.
However I am sure that if a vote was called, they, and others like them would still vote Yes.
TBF I believe that the support for Scottish Independence is accelerating because of the Tory government at Westminster and is in fact being hampered by Blackford. We could have taken the initiative last November/December and instead we handed the advantage to the Conservatives.
Thanks for posting this Rev. His talk about winning the next election and getting a mandate for a referendum in Autumn 2021 reminds me of the FM’s speech a year ago which was about winning the next election and getting a mandate for a referendum in Autumn 2020.
How many times did Mr Blackford say that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will? What action did he take to defend the Scottish vote to remain in the EU? Nada, zilch and he is now saying “Trust us”.
How many mandates mak a muckle?
Leslie Riddoch was trying to keep track of the furious number of comments – all criticising, just about everything Ian Blackford was saying here. It still infuriates me, can’t watch it again.
Someone in comments (during or after this interview) did say, of course, that we wouldn’t get independence if we carried on fighting – I pointed out that everyone seemed to be in agreement about how shite the SNP were being, and that disagreeing with SNP ‘strategy’ doesn’t constitute fighting. The SNP are causing the divisions – it is NOT the will of the Scottish people to seek a s.30, the SNP aren’t listening. They really are dire, and this presentation from Ian Blackford was dire. Convinced no one.
This video is painful. It’s like Parkinson interviewing Meg Ryan.
Must say that the comments section is proof at least that our acerbic Scottish wit is at least alive and well!
Turning up the heat. Does that mean saying,’Scotland will be denied’ grandly, more often?
If the SNP May election manifesto doesn’t state that it’s primarily about independence and what will happen to achieve it if the SNP get enough votes, then they don’t get my vote. Enough S30 jam tomorrow timewasting.
Wow that was 10 x sadder than I thought it was going to be…
Why #indyref2 will not happen in 2021?
“We note with interest the article in the National today featuring Ian Blackford, that asserts that we are going to have a referendum in 2021. We lay out, without comment, the timetable that this would have to follow under the PPERA 2000 (Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000) and the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020.”
link to isp.scot
Is it wise for the SNP, assuming they have any kind of plans, to make them public so that the opposition can prepare a counter for them ? Was just wondering.
I feel like I’ve just watched someone trying to have a constructive conversation with a hemorrhoid.
And he actually thinks those speeches he makes in Westsphincter have made a difference.
@Skozra,
That would be plan B, which as far as I know has been rubbished and banned from conference because everybody in the SNP hierarchy wants to stick to plan A, which is the only plan to be planned for, and supercedes any other plan.
If you think they have something super duper up their sleeve which is about to appear ,I think you will be disappointed.
Ian Blackford is not the leader of the SNP, he is leader of the MPs. He does not have the authority to mobilise the actions so many commentators here demand.
He expressed his wish that the Yes movement mobilises- but how without SNP leadership and funding? – does he have the authority to provide funding to a refreshed Yes Scotland? And the authority to actively engage with a Yes Scotland?
He is obliged to spout the SNP official line of a “Gold Standard” S30 referendum.
Does he have the authority to take his team and walk out of Westminster?
Are these enough pointers to indicate where the power required to initiate any such actions lies?
One guess, why, the Murrells….and yet,
Running concurrently we have a Covid pandemic.
SNP members’ concern over what does “woven in” mean in audit terms if circa £500K isn’t shown in the accounts.
A No Deal Brexit looming,
A committee enquiry into the Alex Salmond affairs being subjected to the Scottish government’s chicanery on providing data to the committee. Well-paid, Government officials, key players in what looks like a sordid business who are unable to remember, or factually speak correctly on past events.
A proposed Westminster law ambling it’s way through the Commons and the “Lords” that will enable the Scottish government to be stripped of it’s power.
And in summary, the First Minister is so so busy with Covid, relaying each week midday, Monday to Friday on Covid statistics given to her to read out, that she cannot attend to the pressing items of government I’ve noted above.
Ian Blackford is not the target of my seething annoyance.
Comment of the thread @kapelmeister says at 3:53 pm
🙂
velofello says:
Ian Blackford is not the target of my seething annoyance.
Yes I agree with you. When I write that Blackford is hampering Independence I mean as a representative of Scotland at Westminster. He is one of the worst speakers I have heard and he constantly minds me of an even more boring ‘Holy Willie’. I am embarrassed when he speaks. Blackford is pointless in every sense.
Sturgeon and Murrell and Swinney are the triumvirate who are dragging Scotland away from independence on a daily basis and are therefore the people most deserving of out and out wrath
Paper Tiger
(noun)
a person, nation, etc. that seems to pose a threat but is actually ineffective or powerless.
Now, who fits that definition perfectly?
@kapelmeister 3.53 and 4.02: I have reported your comments to the Paronomasia Police. You need to go down for a long stretch 🙂 .
@Astonished 4.24: “Call it or resign.”
I fear too many are simple troughers or just scared for some reason. I was only a member from 2014 to early 2020 having voted that way since 1974 but felt party officials/MSPs/MPs were incredible reluctant to criticise the senior leadership. I thought it was strange and rather unhealthy but it makes much more sense to me now.
One local MP even said the WM walkout shouldn’t be done again because polling had shown it was unpopular “on the doorstep”, despite the fact that membership figures had gone up immediately afterwards. My suspicions deepened after that.
Betrayed trust is gone for ever.
Baa baa Blackford,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Enough to pull over the eyes
Of all these Scottish fools.
One for the master,
Another one for the master,
And one for the f**king union.
…To paraphrase Tom Leonard.
Swinney interview on Politics Scotland was the key interview. He claimed it was an unprecedented for legal advice to be issued actually it has been done 3 times before. A lie or misrepresention. You decide.
.. that’s a really thoughtful article by Breeks at 10.49am (previous posting).
But this stands out for me: “.. we all need this festering boil of the conspiracy against Alex Salmond properly lanced. That means all the dirt made public.”
I agree. Nothing will do more to undermine the seemingly blind and irrational faith so many have in Sturgeon than a full public airing of the political shenanigans emerging at the top of the SNP and Scottish government. Holyrood’s investigation will undoubtedly speed up as more murk is uncovered. But however long it takes, the outcome is, I believe, inevitable. Dodgy political goings-on will be proved, and political careers sent crashing. The shake-out will allow for new beginnings, and new hope. It is the only way forward.
To those who whisper ‘wheesht for indy’, I say absolutely not. We must expose this shenanigans completely, and ASAP. The revelations will be shocking, but the process itself will be politically maturing, proving that as a nation we can deal confidently with our own problems, however embarrassing.
Dealt with effectively and head-on, this business will be to our advantage. Dodgy political goings-on will always be a risk in political life, but only if not exposed and stamped out. Sweeping this business under the carpet won’t work, and ultimately will allow our opponents to say “told you so, that’s what happens when the ‘too stupid’ brigade get their hands on power”.
So, wherever this takes us, we must accept that this is our problem, and get the job of public exposure, and censure, done.
Ironic, isn’t it, how Alex Salmond remains at the centre of Scottish political life? Wiped from the pages of SNP history, yet still a huge force in Scottish politics.
@Skozra
There is no doubt in my mind that there IS a ‘Plan B’
However revealing it would be monumentally stupid and just lead to Westminster saying ‘on you go then’
The idea that Russell and Blackford are without influence in the party is ludicrous. And with Nicola’s coat on a shoogly peg a referendum is the only thing likely to save her.
IMO there has never been a stupider time to attack the SNP. If Nicola falls, let her do it quietly while we support the new leaders.
If there is no firm date/commitment at conference then I will be disappointed. . If there is no immediate campaign launch after an SNP overall majority in May I will probably cut up my membership card.
Until then, why doesn’t everyone stop whinging in public and do something positive instead.
What I’d like to know is, what does he mean when he says a ‘majority’?
In a parliament which has been deliberately set up so that political parties should find it nigh on impossible to achieve a majority?
Is this the kind of majority he means?
Surely a majority in England should be the target (which has already been achieved 2019 GE)as we want independence from the UK union, not from ourselves?
@ Effijy at 4.19
It’s actually only 5 years – he was elected in the 2015 landslide.
It just feels like 10…
@Asklair 5.54pm
Just read that so the earliest a referndum could take place is mid January 2022 or never under present leadership.
Nope nope nope.
Ian Blackford is probably a nice guy, but he’s so long winded – life is too short. Soon as he started in on ‘when I joined the SNP in 1979…’ I was oot.
Also, to me he just sounds like George Deary from Dateline Scotland. I can’t listen to him any more.
I think they’ve put Scottish independence on the same time measure as the rate at which Ian Blackford gets to the point.
I’m not hopeful.
Tom, Breeks, everybody, what is meant by dirt in regards to the Salmond inquiry?
Specifically, would be the most damaging possible outcome or revelation for the government?
I fail to understand why people are so enraged that there has been and will not be a referndum this year. Thanks to covid, it would not have been possible, certainly not if we want to win it. As the last referendum demostrated, effective campaigning is essential, but this year there would have been no public meetings, no big marches, no chapping on the doors, whileas the BBC and the MSM would have continued to say what they want, reaching into virtually every home.
As for Section 30, it is important that if there is to be a referendum it is internationally recognised. I don’t like the idea of us going to court to establish whether we can ourselves hold a referendum; we say we are sovereign and we can, whileas going to court smacks too much of us asking permission and runs the risk of a court saying no you can’t. Rather, we should hold a referndum and let the UK government, should it think it advisable, go to court to try to stop it. It might well not do so and if they did they might well fail – in either such case the referendum would be legal. Such action by the UK government would moreover just engender further resentment here in Scotland.
And of course if the courts and the UK government decided that a referndum was not legal and we went ahead and held one, I anticipate that Unionists would abstain en masse, as would those wavering souls who were worried that something illegal was being done. Thus we’d perhaps get a 90% yes vote, but with a paltry turnout which our opponents would claim, with some justification, was far from the settled will of the Scottish people. It might well not be enough to get international recognition for our independence and without that things would be very difficult, certainly for the first few years – ask Rhodesia, South Ossettia, North Cyprus, Catelonia (92% Yes, but only a 43% turnout) and other states that have not received international recognition. On the other hand you could look at Slovenia where 88% of the electorate voted for independence, there was then a 10-day war with Yugoslavia, and soon after that Slovenia’s independence was recognised. Big difference there, of course, was that Slovenia was freeing itself from Communism and the West was only too keen to recognise it Commies BAD). Compare that with Crimea whare its official results showed over 90% support for reunification with Russia, but the vote was boycotted by many loyal to Ukraine and declared illegitimate by Western governments and the United Nations.
They obviously believe we all button up the back, I love Leslie Riddoch but I feel she let him off easy there, it’s time for hard questions, I certainly won’t be voting to give these gradualists another 5 yrs at the trough, I pray another party comes along before the end of the year otherwise we can kiss goodbye to independence in my lifetime at least and I’d like to think I’ve got another 20yrs left, I’m so angry I can’t tell you.
Nope! Sorry! Couldn’t get further than 2min 22seconds in why Blackford starts bumping his gums:
“Simply, it’s not going to be acceptable…….”
I’ve heard all this guff before. It’s a “not going to be dragged out of the EU” re-run.
“If we don’t get a majority in 2021 all bets are off”?
So where are the previous mandates? Sturgeon using them as bookends?
I am sick fed up of this tit and the SNP leadership. They are so predictable. Its clear they are just talking this up to get votes for the looming election…its so transparent. If we vote them in again, they are just going to ASK PERMISSION for a section 30 and then moan about it when they are test no.
Conservatives can have a manifesto which states they will protect the union…what are the SNP going to do then? They are fucking useless!
Well that was interesting re: Martin Keatings.
To paraphrase : It’s a relevent strategy, but not for just now, we’d prefer to pursue that avenue after the Section 30 is refused and not before it.
Errr of course it won’t be refused, but when – I mean if – it is, then that’s when we’d look at starting to pursue that avenue, which of course we won’t have to.
It’s important to have alternative plans, but we won’t need them.
There’s no point in asking us as MP’s about our strategy, we don’t have one, because we are not part the Scottish Government, we’re the Westminster Government and requestimg an S30 is not our remit. We work closely with the Scottish Government though.
Our job will be to support the Scottish Government by being ridiculed – which we are very good at it – that way support for independence will rise; so, it’s vitally important more people get to see and hear Westminster ridiculing Scottish MP’s and refusing to grant an S30 to the Scottish Government.
Everyone can help us, by ridiculing us as much as possible, which is why I am here today – ehh, no, wait…
Eh what? Yes, of course we are listening… what was the question?
In case anyone’s wondering why it’s taken until now to get independence over 50% at the polls.
‘The fact is here we are in the summer of 2019, five years on from the 2014 referendum – tonight will be the first time that I have delivered a speech on independence in five years. The SNP’s not campaigned for independence for five years, the Yes movement has to some extent been on the sidelines.’
Ian Blackford in an interview with Greg Russell – ‘The National’
8 June 2019
Talking to crofters at the fanks? Or lunching with directors at the banks?
Does anyone seriously think Ian Blackford, the inactive Nicola Sturgeon’s minion, has the drive or inclination to take us anywhere near independence?
The SNP remind me of growing up in a Labour town where as a kid, I just kept thinking, why do people keep voting for these idiots, they are doing fuck all for the Town.
Same shit, different shovel.
I am happy to admit I was duped, gave up my party membership late last year, thus avoiding the coronary difficulties while watching this train wreck.
it’s like a scene from lord of rings where galadriel, queen of the celts, meets Waffley, son of Groin, in the quest for the one section(30) which must be obtained from the tower of mordorminster itself in the land of the bawbags
– speaking without words, the luminous creature telepaths to the dwarf
“get it fukd, ya total waste … “
cynicalHighlander says:
15 November, 2020 at 6:44 pm
@Asklair 5.54pm
Just read that so the earliest a referndum could take place is mid January 2022 or never under present leadership.
Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet!
I originally thought they could but now I know
The SNP canny walk and chew gum at the same time
Skozra:
No.
If they want a mandate to pursue plan b, they will need to stick it in their manifesto.
There’s no clever “got to keep cards to your chest” way round that, whatever ScotsRenewables thinks.
If the route is to be a little messier than envisaged, they simply MUST tell the electorate what is planned and secure a mandate for it.
The price of that is revealing the plan to unionists but, let’s be quite frank, the unionist politicians will already have “war gamed” all the possible scenarios and planned their counters. There’s not going to be some route so ingenious they can’t think of it. That’s a red herring and a nonsense and a comfort to those who want to believe there is a secret plan.
If all this is true, and I am certain it is, then not revealing the “secret plan” to obtain a mandate for it would be a sign that the SNP DOES NOT WANT a mandate for any secret plan and therefore means to tamely keep asking nicely.
In effect, they are asking for a mandate to Let Boris Decide but won’t be as plain as this with the voters as it’d be saying “it’s not in our gift to do this and if Boris Says No we can’t/won’t actually deliver it” as this might lose them votes and they want their seats if nothing else.
OK, I’m prepared to cut him some slack. As usual it’s simple. A referendum in 2021. Good. A new YES movement. Nah we’ll keep the old one. They’ve nae money. Fine I’ll give them money. Support the SNP. OK, I’ll vote for you.
You’re part of the bargain?
Name the date. If not, then f**k off. You tried to put Alex Salmond in prison. Think about that.
The Scottish Government basically runs itself. Doesn’t matter who the government is. We need education, health etc etc. Money is controlled by Westminster anyway.
Unless they move their arses, I’m back to Labour in constituency next year. Richard Leonard for FM. THAT’S how pissed off I am, SNP.
I think your being a bit unfair on Blackford there, he probably has to hang on for that new plate Evoque for the Mrs he’s promised her…sarcasm: I am sure she is delighted with the one he bought her at the start of the year…
@Scots Renewables,
You cannot be serious surely? Your post is going down well on WGD rather expectedly. They are like yourself. Ostrich ,sand head.
Perhaps you can ignore attempts to imprison a political rival as being acceptable. Perhaps you can believe that the ring fenced money is in prepayment which is laughable because it means that money is now dormant in other bank accounts rather than in one owned by the SNP. It is actually in accounts a potential liability.
Snooze till 2022 if you wish whilst the Rest of us keep fighting. Set your alarm.
If they were going have a referendum next year they must call it now. That way they would keep faith with supporters who would be energised to keep them in power and get it done. As things stand people are suspicious and so may not vote for them, therefore no mandate, and no hope.
Iain Donald says:
15 November, 2020 at 6:56 pm
If we vote them in again, they are just going to ASK PERMISSION for a section 30 and then moan about it when they are test no.
I am pretty certain they will not moan but will immediately move to Plan B, a plan that will then be accepted by the international community because Scotland had no choice.
You on the other hand are working to ensure no SNP majority. And so ensure the request is never made and the response never comes.
A bunch of lightweights no-one has heard of contesting list seats unsuccessfully will be a disaster.
Or are Alex and Stu going to lead us out of the darkness? Because if so how long are they going to wait to make their move?
(And, sadly and undeservedly, to alienate swathes of woman voters)
As I prepare to have my EU citizenship taken from me against my will, I’m sorry Mr Blackford I found that a tad underwhelming… Expect? Anticipate? Pretty robustly… that’s going to give the Tories sleepless nights. It worked really well with BRITEX. Well done Lesley for asking all the right questions
@ katherine hamilton.
Stop it noo katherine.
Vote labour and ricky leopard?I know things are no great the now , but they wont ever be that bad i will stoop to voting for those labour barstewards ever again.
“Alienate swathes of women voters”. By telling them the truth?
You have a rather strange view of what people should or should not know. Keep the truth from them,get their vote then enact the legislation that nullified their rights.
You are definitely an SNP stalwart.
ScotsRenewables says on 15 November, 2020 at 7:18 pm
“cynicalHighlander says: Just read that so the earliest a referndum could take place is mid January 2022 or never under present leadership.”
You responded: Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet!
__________
Well instead of having a go at everyone who will not agree with you why not give us an explanation as to why that article he’s talking about shouldn’t be believed?
I’ve asked Sturgeon and the wider ScotGov, via Twitter, to refute the claims in the article for us but i’ll bet anyone they don’t respond, they never do.
So i for one would appreciate you refuting what is said and explaining why. I don’t want to believe it so i will be easy to convince but i need to hear it from someone who knows what they’re talking about. Because that article comes across *very* convincingly. Can you refute what it says?
I see that some are trotting out the “Salmond and Rev Stu will alienate women” message. Leaving aside the questionable truth of that assertion, and the fact that most on here consider Joanna Cherry to be the best potential leader we’ve got, I can’t help think that Blackford is equally off-putting to female voters. “Pompous Old (and, sorry to be nasty, Rather Large) Banker In Tweed” isn’t exactly very female-friendly is it?
@Tannadice Boy says:
15 November, 2020 at 6:33 pm
“Swinney interview on Politics Scotland was the key interview. He claimed it was an unprecedented…”
On tv this morning it was pointed out that the most used new word / phrase for 2020 is “COVID-19”.
Think they forgot about “unprecedented”, the favourite word of the SNP.
I’m not at all convinced that this gentleman is even a member of our movement.
I know for a fact that Ms Riddoch is. Ditto Mr Campbell.
Bob Mack says:
15 November, 2020 at 7:42 pm
“Alienate swathes of women voters”. By telling them the truth?
You have a rather strange view of what people should or should not know. Keep the truth from them,get their vote then enact the legislation that nullified their rights.
You are definitely an SNP stalwart.
Erm… I was referring to my vision of a pro-indy party led by Alex and Stu. They Do alienate a lot of woman voters, quite wrongly but hey, ignoring it would be pretty stupid.
And I have already said my SNP membership goes as far as May then ends if there is no campaign.
Try reading what people post instead of reacting with kneejerking pomposity, eh?
I am doing what I can to ensure independence comes ASAP, you appear to be too wrapped up in your own little virtue signalling world of hate to give a damn.
@ScotsRenewables
Where’s it wrong?
You have a habit of decrying other peoples assertions without giving any explanation as to why.
And Bob, I find your comment on WGD strange… I have not posted on there.
Well that’s a boke, I could write a book, however one observation (sorry if someone has already made the seam, no time to read through all the comments)
But But But I find myself reminded of “The Cluncking Fist”
The more I listen the more I’m reminded. same useless, bla bla rhetoric, waffle waffle waffle.
Stu you said keep it clean, I ask HOW?? The SNP elite have sure become Tories.
Bastards.
ScotsRenewables
Where’s it wrong?
You have a habit of decrying other peoples assertions without giving any explanation as to why.
What article? I can’t even find it, how about a link?
Johnny Martin says:
15 November, 2020 at 7:24 pm
Skozra:
No.
If they want a mandate to pursue plan b, they will need to stick it in their manifesto.
There’s no clever “got to keep cards to your chest” way round that, whatever ScotsRenewables thinks.
You’ve already seen the manifesto then?
Thought not.
All the SNP need a mandate for is to seek independence. I fully expect s as I’d manifesto will include a statement on refusing to accept a Westminster veto etc.
– W
@ScotsRenewables says:
15 November, 2020 at 8:18 pm
ScotsRenewables
Where’s it wrong?
You have a habit of decrying other peoples assertions without giving any explanation as to why.
What article? I can’t even find it, how about a link?
Which sums you up as an SNP troll as you have decried everyone who has refered to it.
Section 30?
Aye, right.
Ian Blackford confirms the New SNP are not the party of independence.
I wonder how many of them are working for the British state?
There appears to be as much point trying to reason with @ScotsRenewables as with roasters like Cameron Brodie. Notice that no matter how many times he’s are asked to justify the bland assertions, to provide evidence, it’s just “wheesht for indy”. The lumpen gradualism is as unsurprising as it is disappointing.
It will indeed be interesting to see what happens to all these folk when the scales fall from their eyes post the much vaunted party conference and Holyrood 2021 result. Another 6 months lost, then additional time to finally come up with a Plan B that SHOULD already be in place.
Hatuey says:
15 November, 2020 at 6:49 pm
Tom, Breeks, everybody, what is meant by dirt in regards to the Salmond inquiry?
Specifically, would be the most damaging possible outcome or revelation for the government?
For me, it’s seeing WhatsApp Texts, knowing who said what to whom, who all was involved, who were the people steering the conspiracy. We need to see the evidence, because these people are deliberately hiding from scrutiny, when all the indications are they have been involved in a wilful attempt to defame and destroy an innocent individual.
We need to know who amongst the Conspirators is dishonest, deceitful, criminal, and generally unfit for office, so they can be removed from office, and we need sight of the unredacted evidence to determine who should face criminal prosecution for their actions.
It is too late, and furthermore it is inappropriate, for Swinney to be ‘bargaining’ what information he is willing to release when that very information might constitute sufficiently damning evidence to warrant multiple criminal prosecutions. That crosses the line between mundane and ordinary political discretion, and tampering with, or even destroying criminal evidence, to enable known individuals to escape prosecution. Frankly, it’s not going wash.
The alphabet women are also players in a deliberate attempt to connive with each other to fabricate charges against Alex Salmond and conspire to have him jailed and his political legacy and reputation destroyed. In my personal opinion, it is absurd that these individuals are still protected by anonymity which is vexatiously, and asymmetrically, enforced by the Courts.
Not only is that grossly unfair to Alex Salmond, equally unfair on Craig Murray and Mark Hirst, but it’s also a slap in the face to genuine victims of sexual assault who properly need the type of protection which these alphabet conspirators are cynically using as shield of convenience. You will recall one of the texts actually saying as much, that there would be profound ramifications but they’d be protected by anonymity. What detestable cynicism!
The whole integrity of the First Minister and her government is on the line, her coterie of chums, the NEC, the SNP’s cosy relationship with the Civil Service and Judiciary where it seems focussed on an orchestrated campaign to “get” Alex Salmond, and it is simply unacceptable for any party or individual directly implicated in the conspiracy to be holding sway on how much of the conspiracy is made public.
That the likes of Leslie Evans can sit there deciding which evidence she is prepared to put before the inquiry is as farcical as the murderer being put in charge of evidence recovered from the crime scene, and deciding which evidence is inadmissible for his own trial.
Andy Ellis says:
15 November, 2020 at 8:37 pm
It will indeed be interesting to see what happens to all these folk when the scales fall from their eyes post the much vaunted party conference and Holyrood 2021 result.
If it turns out you are wrong I trust you will have a tasty hat to hand, perhaps with some humble pie on the side?
@ScotsRenewables says:
15 November, 2020 at 7:28 pm
Iain Donald says:
15 November, 2020 at 6:56 pm
If we vote them in again, they are just going to ASK PERMISSION for a section 30 and then moan about it when they are test no.
I am pretty certain they will not moan but will immediately move to Plan B, a plan that will then be accepted by the international community because Scotland had no choice.’
—
Dear Scott, why are you pretty certain?
For a long time, I was certain they would move to Plan B, when the terms of Brexit became known (remember that one?) and it is now a given (across the board), that the terms of Brexit are going to be incredibly shit.
Now is the only time for a Plan B, not once the damage is done, and Holyrood closed in all but name.
I was 9 when 1979 happened, and lived my formative, teenage years through Thatcher, then New Labour – Home Rule was always on the horizon, always promised, never delivered.
It took the democratic deficit, shown up by the Independence of the Baltic Countries and pressure from EU membership to FORCE Tony Blair’s hand into providing the 1997 Referendum for Devolution. And he had to be Forced. In fairness to New Labour – they were always a bit more sensitive about how things looked. The Tories never, ever gave a shit – anything like that was kicked down the road for the next Labour Government.
And why on earth would the International Community have any problem with the people of Scotland voting for Indy via a democratic plebiscite Holyrood Election? And even if they did have a problem with that – what the f’s it got to do with them, its a legal method, so why are we giving the international community a veto, in addition to WM? Where on earth is it written that the only way by which other countries will recognise an Independent Scotland is if we prove ‘we had no choice’. That is just bonkers.
But even if you put all of that to one side. The most recent Scot Goes Pop poll shows overwhelming support for Holyrood, and Indy, once the people questioned are aware of the current threat it faces under the Internal Markets Bill.
There is absolutely no reason or excuse for not campaigning on that issue now. It is an absolute dereliction of duty to fail to do so. That someone in Ian Bardford’s position within the SNP is not champing at the bit regarding this aspect tells us a great deal.
Actions speak louder than words. And the SNP’s INACTION is an emergency warning siren that should be alerting every single Yesser with a pulse.
Just to be clear, from 1/1/21, with a no deal Brexit, the Internal Markets Bill, and the Civil Service Hub in Edinburgh – Holyrood will become Hollowed out. Unemployment will go through the roof, asset stripping will go into speed drive, along with rampant corruption, and the MSM will place all of the blame for it, on the SNP – all accounts of NS being high in the polls due to Covid/ and the SNP being a competent Government, will be ancient history, in very short shift. And they will NEVER be elected again – with or without a backbone to deliver on Indy Mandates.
You want to save the SNP – then you’d better get them to campaign on and deliver a Plebiscite Holyrood Election, otherwise its not just Scotland that will be toast, the SNP will be done for too.
Waiting until after May 2021 is too bloody late.
Lastly too, but not least in significance, there is also a question about whether this whole sworded conspiracy is the work of individuals, or whether there is a central control which has been seeking to discredit Scottish Independence and the SNP Government.
That’s why we need to see the evidence and put names to all the players.
Anyone hear about Boris supposedly having to isolate again?
Is it him, Europe or Scotland he has in mind?
Lesley Riddoch was so polite, so nice. The lady has the patience of a saint.
How many watching this were shouting at their screen:
Just answer the question! (That’s the polite version).
Acht who cares ,its them poor 20lb and 25 lbs Turkey’s I feel sorry for.No one’s gonna be buying the poor sods. So they’re shafted this year. They can’t go out in a blaze of glory in some oven to satisfy the greed of man.
They would have been better off fending for themselves in the fields fighting off the foxes, eagles, hawks and the like.
But they’ll still get their heids chopped off no doubt. Ah well.p
@ScotsRenewables says:
“I am pretty certain they will not moan but will immediately move to Plan B, a plan that will then be accepted by the international community because Scotland had no choice.
You on the other hand are working to ensure no SNP majority. And so ensure the request is never made and the response never comes.”
What are you basing that on? They said they were going to move to Plan B in the General Election & didn’t…infact they had to admit they didn’t even have one. The SNP already have a mandate from the last GE and the one before and the past 2 Holyrood elections, so why won’t they just use those mandates instead of asking for yet another one? Is this the one they are going to do? Will we need to suck it and see? Nah, yer alright.
I am not working to ensure no SNP majority. I am a single voter and I have no faith in the SNP to deliver on what they say. Its just more pre-election rhetoric, once the vote is secure they will just carry on as they have. I am basing this on historical fact, not what I want to see happen – as you seem to be.
I also informed the SNP directly via messaging Nicola Sturgeon, my local MP, MSP and the wider party that if they did not aggressively pursue Indy with my GE vote, then the game was up and I would no longer lend them my vote. They have been pre-warned, so they cannot complain than I am working against them.
None of this has anything to do with GRA, Alex Salmond or Stu. Its about them not living up to their word. They should do what they say – the end.
@ScotRenewables 8.44pm
Of course: I’ll happily admit the error of my analysis if that bright sunny day dawns. The difference of course is that I’m not the one posting anonymous comments am I “ScotRenewables”?
You’re happy to pedal your couthy assertions that “Nicola’s got this” in the knowledge nobody knows who you are and when your gradualist snake oil is proven to be ineffective you’ll doubtless move on to some other anonymous profile to tout the next gradualist panacea.
Iain, I fail to see how the SNP could possibly have announced a referendum in the last eleven and a half months since the GE. ‘Aggresively’ pursuing independence during the pandemic would have been insane.
There is light at the end of the Covid tunnel, support for independence is a consistent majority view and there is a chance for an overall SNP majority AND a majority of votes cast in May. If Carlsberg did mandates…
People have short memories… It was the overall SNP majority in 2010 that triggered the first referendum.
The planets are all aligned. Whatever your own particular Plan B is, it cannot possibly make independence a reality earlier than next year. Six months is such a little time to wait, and your impatience could cost us everything.
Scots renewables @ 7.28 pm
“You said , Or are Alex and Stu going to lead us out of the darkness? Because if so how long are they going to wait to make their move?”
“(And, sadly and undeservedly, to alienate swathes of woman voters)”
I wouldn’t expect Rev Stuart or Alex Salmond to make any moves at the moment considering that the Harassment and Complaints Committee inquiry is still on-going and when Alex Salmond is called to the Committee and hopefully then he will be allowed to give the evidence that he wants to give in person .
We have to remember these words from Alex Salmond as he walked out of the High Court in Edinburgh a free man.
“There is certain evidence that I would have liked to have seen led in this trial, but for a variety of reasons we were not able to do so. At some point that information, that facts and that evidence will see the light of day.”
At the moment the Snp are already alienating women from voting for them with their GRA reform bill and the Hate Crime Bill and they have to remember that women make up 51% of the Scottish population . If Alex and Rev Stuart do set up a party, I know that my family and many female friends would rather vote for them than the Snp and all of us have always voted Snp until now .
@ Andy Ellis,
Plenty of people in the movement know who I am, including Stu.
Try a little research if you are curious.
How many Andy Ellises are there in Scotland?
@ScotRenewables
You’re honestly not worth the typing strokes bud. Gradualists gonna gradualise.
The yoons can relax and wait for #indyref2039 safe in the knowledge much of the SNP lack the balls for independence.
@Beaker
Glad you are an a alerrt reader. Of course you can determine an utter lie when you see one.
This may seem trivial, but I have found, as a general rule, that any politician who uses the word “robust” is lying.
@ ScotsRenewables: “aggressively pursuing independence during covid”.
It could have been presented as a literally life-saving move. It has always been reported when Scotland wasn’t able to protect itself because of Westminster’s attitude to covid defence measures, and the Scottish public has approved of Scotgov measures, on the whole.
And anyway, should the cause of freedom and truth be put on hold, under any circumstances? Not in my view.
@Tannadice Boy says:
15 November, 2020 at 9:28 pm
“Of course you can determine an utter lie when you see one.”
Oh that’s easy. Any time a politician opens their mouth 🙂
(Allegedly of course…)
Andy Ellis says:
15 November, 2020 at 9:26 pm
@ScotRenewables
You’re honestly not worth the typing strokes
Thanks ‘bud’, I love you too.
“ The planets are all aligned… Six months is such a little time to wait, and your impatience could cost us everything.”
Actually waiting could cost us everything. As if waiting isn’t bad enough, as we wait we are telling Westminster that we will wait forever if necessary, and promising that we’ll never deviate from the path of waiting. No matter what they say and do, we will just stand waiting.
It’s very difficult to tell the difference between waiting and doing fuck all. But they haven’t been doing fuck all, have they? They’ve been doing a bunch of stuff.
Keeping tabs on the football, it seems that if Belgium beat England tonight
and Denmark beats Iceland tonight then the Empire’s Finest, The Queen’s 11,
God’s own supreme race will be ejected from the tournament.
Belgium are winning 2-0 and Denmark 1-0 with 5 minutes left.
Tragic! All before we get a re-run of 1966 and they it’s Coming Home Record is
released for the 10th time.
Those nasty EU countries will get it now with Brexit.
3 times I say again 3 times legal advice has been released. Swinney lied today. What’s new
Sarah says:
15 November, 2020 at 9:32 pm
@ ScotsRenewables: “aggressively pursuing independence during covid”.
It could have been presented as a literally life-saving move. It has always been reported when Scotland wasn’t able to protect itself because of Westminster’s attitude to covid defence measures, and the Scottish public has approved of Scotgov measures, on the whole.
And anyway, should the cause of freedom and truth be put on hold, under any circumstances? Not in my view.
Oh good grief, just how naive are some of you?
It is because of NOT overtly politicising Covid that we are now almost in a position to go for it.
Any attempt to hold a referendum in 2020 would have resulted in ridicule and failure.
What INFURIATES me is the comments exhorting us all to get behind the SNP, hold our noses and re elect them based on their unsubstantiated MANY promises and DRAFT bill, effectively give them another chance to fuck us over while they continue to add to their pension pot for another 5 years
ALL the compromises that have been made to this stage ALL come from independence supporters, NOT the SNP or NS.
THERE have been NO compromises from the SNP or NS, so from a reality perspective how exactly can the proponents of ” GIVE THEM ANOTHER CHANCE” ensure and guarantee that we will NOT be fucked over again
When you have a leader that has totally and completely ignored the outrage against the GRA and HCB what are the chances she will recant and listen to the masses
Nicola Sturgeon, her husband and her woke conspirators have done MORE damage to Scotland and the cause of independence than the whole cohort of Scotland’s unionist parties
What was that lovely quote from Samuel Adams? Words to the effect that “We will forget that you were once a compatriot and bid you farewell. May your chains of subservience hang upon you.”
Hatuey says:
Actually waiting could cost us everything.
So a minority Scottish government that polled less than 50% of the popular vote declared UDI. Yes, that will play well outside Scotland. In fact, it would be widely resisted INSIDE Scotland. Where do you think the extra support for Indy over the last six months has come from?
(hint – not from sabre rattling extremists)
they haven’t been doing fuck all, have they? They’ve been doing a bunch of stuff.
A lot of groundwork abroad talking to our future allies and trading partners, I believe.
What was that lovely quote from Samuel Adams? Words to the effect that “We will forget that you were once a compatriot and bid you farewell. May your chains of subservience hang lightly upon you.”
Effigy @ 9.37 pm
After reading your post , I went and checked the Bbc sports page ,
FULL-TIME Belgium 2-0 England , Victory for Belgium.
Defeat means England will not be at the Nations League finals next October.
Yes , no re- runs of 1966 and “ its coming home “ LOL
Sarah says:
15 November, 2020 at 9:47 pm
What was that lovely quote from Samuel Adams? Words to the effect that “We will forget that you were once a compatriot and bid you farewell. May your chains of subservience hang upon you.”
Yeah, way to go Sarah. Alienate as many fellow ‘yessers’ as you can.
You need my vote, I need your vote, or independence is never going to happen. I am afraid it is you, not me, who is coming across as an unwitting tool of the establishment.
I see the SNPs damage limitation effort is in forward gear.
Maybe someone should tell them their car has stalled.
Typically dishonest stuff there, Scot, they’re starting to rub off on you. I didn’t mention UDI and you won’t get away with that stuff on here.
As for promoting our interests abroad, okay… so the EU won’t negotiate for access to Scottish fishing waters with Boris? You really believe that?
ScotsRenewables says: at 9:47 pm
“So a minority Scottish government that polled less than 50% of the popular vote…”
Possibly a bit too radical a concept for the magnolia careerist grandualists to get their heads around, but I’m pretty sure a sound way to not reduce one’s vote share, and actually increase it, would be to offer policies that the punters want, and not focus on pushing policies the punters don’t want.
@Beaker
We are in trouble. And the trouble with politicians is they think we are thick. We don’t watch Scottish Parliament TV of course we don’t.
Swinney lied today full stop
my son: “dad can I get a bmx for Christmas”
Me: “I’ll have to think about that
Son at school “dads getting me a bmx”
Son “me and **** have found a good park for the bmx”
Me: “wait, what?”
Son’s pal: “so what kind of bmx are you getting?”
Wife: “ **** said you are getting him a bmx”
Me: “eh?”
Perhaps we should give Blackford’s comments arms and legs. Let’s push the claim that we are getting indyref. Let’s make it September 21.
Let’s keep the ball rolling and put icing on the cake – let’s call 2021 “Scotland’s coming of age.” or some bloody gimmick like it. Get some merchandise and punt it out there.
The yoon media are good at pushing the “once in a generation” comment. Why aren’t we seizing on blackford’s comments and turning them into a ‘guaranteed referendum’.
Put the onus on the SNP. Let them cringe and climb down. If they do they are finished.
Right off to look at bmx bikes.. :{
I resent the comment above (Scottish Renewables) that Alex Salmond and Stu are ‘leading’ or have the potential to ‘lead women’ to reject the snp and/or indy. Most of us women have the brains and the experience to analyse discourse and indeed, given the hemispherical differences in the cerebral activities and propensities of women and men, may well be intuitively better at such analysis than men.
I was skeptical when Stu first began to point out what was happening within the snp and with regards to indy. It is very difficult and painful to just reject a lifetime of trust and belief in an organisation such as the snp was, and a lifetime of belief that Scotland needed and deserved to regain independence. It takes a lot more than one or two peoples’ say-so to be prepared to reject such strong beliefs and trust.
The reason why women (and equally men) are now questioning the credibility of the snp and its commitment to indy, is quite simply the inexcusable delays and the inexcusable broken promises, and finally the inexcusable stitch-up of an innocent man for the most shallow and self-centred reasons.
For myself, (and similarly to the majority of the jury at AS’s trial who have seen and heard much more evidence than we have), I have carefully weighed up each piece of evidence, each speech, each attempt to manipulate situations to prevent the truth coming into the open and to erect barriers to indy, the sheer lack of any action whatsoever to even prepare the ground for indy, by the SNP and in particular, the senior clique. It is not Stu who has cut off communication or refused to answer perfectly reasonable questions nor is it Alex Salmond. It is Swinney, Sturgeon, Murrell, Robertson and the most senior civil servants who we have watched work hand in hand to obstruct justice and transparency while obviously showing nepotism, favouritism and protection of their own little clique.
It is these players, and they alone, who are not leading but DRIVING women and men away from the snp, but they wont drive us away from Independence. And I suspect the majority of women would agree that is the case. So stop with the belittling of women, we are perfectly capable of judging the situation for ourselves. Stu has provided a lot of the evidence but that is nothing to do with ‘leading’, it is a vital component of evaluation – to look at all sides, to listen to all sides and weigh up the facts to draw up a reliable and solid conclusion – no matter how depressing and hurtful that conclusion might be.
And my conclusion remains and is indeed strengthened by listening to this interview, that the snp are no longer to be trusted and no longer worthy of my vote. At this point in time there is no party worthy of my trust or my vote. Unless Sturgeon and her consort go, or an indy campaign is announced WITH FIRM DATE before 31/12/20, I will be spoiling my votes for the very first time in my life. That situation is abhorrent to me, but is preferable to supporting these bought and sold rogues. And I despise Sturgeon for putting me and so many others in this position. I despise dishonesty.
I vote for a party whose manifesto comes close to what I want.
I do not vote for personalities or well liked folk.
The SNP used to offer me what I wanted, but seem to have cooled on the idea of Independence. In other words they seem to no longer offer or promote what I want except in soundbites to soothe the masses. They have spent two to three years already asking for a Section 30.
I will find another Indy party who unashamedly put Indy front and centre on their programme and vote for them instead, because that is my priority.
Scottie Dog 10.00pm
I agree with that Plan A. It is very similar to how WM moves things along. Shame Sturgeon and co all suffer from a deafness disorder, they cant hear the people of Scotland asking for a bmx or equivalent. But maybe that bmx will have some really loud and penetrating bells on its handlebars and they will be forced to hear at last.
@ Fionan at 10.01: Very well said. The truth is the most important thing.
Ach Thomas
The SNP are trolling us. Just thot I’d troll them back. Or maybe not!
@Fionan
“ But maybe that bmx will have some really loud and penetrating bells on its handlebars and they will be forced to hear at last.”
Exactly, let’s be practical here. The SNP is the only vehicle we have. Let’s push it faster than it wants to go. What do we have to lose.
@sarah 10 13
Great stuff of course truth only matters when you are not on National TV or does it? Blatant unadulterated lies today by Swinney. The truth what y’all know about that?
Fionan says:
Well said. Really really pissed for having been put in this position.
Fionan @10.01
Totally agree.
I found myself becoming more and more frustrated listening to Ian Blackford. He and the other mandarins are trust the English Government of the UK to do something that is not in their own self-interest.The Tory Ministers are all about their own self-interest. They desperately need Scotland’s wealth and resources. I simply can’t fathom the trust that they have in the Tories, or any English Party to grant an order that’s not in their own self interest.
Blackford also wants to negotiate with them about the details of a referendum. Why would one negotiate with someone who is holding you in captivity to leave captivity?
Hearing Boris has to self isolate again after Covid contact.
He should be used to being isolated by now.
@Fionan says 10 01
I was never sceptical about Stu. Lying has been devopled to an art form by the SNP. Take today, there has been 3 occasions when Parliament has overwritten LSP. Swinney said unprecedented today. Lying!
Bob Mack says:
15 November, 2020 at 10:06 pm
I will find another Indy party who unashamedly put Indy front and centre on their programme and vote for them instead, because that is my priority.
And if they prove to be utterly unelectable – like Rise or SSP, both bigger and better than the current alt~indy offerings – you will have wasted your vote, maybe even let a Yoon in by the back door.
If independence was as easy as some of you seem to think we would have been independent years ago.
To be fair though blogs like this do help hold the SNP’s feet to the fire, so I guess it’s not all bad.
Personally, in my more optimistic moments, I reckon that is exactly what Stu is calculated doing. And you know what, maybe it is even necessary.
Fortunately most people, even on here, will do the necessary when it is necessary. Indy is bigger than egos for most of us.
I really think we need to stop asking the ‘how’ question and simply start applying massive momentum. A new YES organisation can dwarf the SNP. It can create the idea in the national psyche that a referendum WILL happen next year. It can make the SNP look utterly ridiculous if they water down a manifesto for May 21.
We can’t wait for these people to give us a nod. We have to create an environment in which it becomes very difficult for the SNP to keep fobbing folk off with a S30. As time goes on, an S30 will become the outlier.
Totally different attitude here from Angus MacNeill compared to Ian Blackford ,
We could be… in less than six months… have ballot boxes for independence, at the most legal and international recognised event that’s going to happen in Scotland, for I don’t know how long.”
Angus MacNeill speaking at #AUOBAssembly about he and @Chris McEleny’s Plan B.
link to twitter.com
How come these posters like Scots Renewables keep telling us Indy is the priority. Why not tell that to the SNP instead?
They are the ones dragging their hedls, not us.
By the by. Is that Schrodingers Cat? Just asking.
More from recent Scot Goes Pop polling.
If there is a majority of seats won at Holyrood by Indy Parties then 63% of voters would be in favour of ensuring Scottish Voters get a chance to vote for Indy and do not accept a WM Veto.
So, just to recap, support for indy is now, regularly polling at about 55%.
About 70% of Scottish Voters – when informed of the current threat to Devolution – would vote for Indy – including very large chunks of former No Voters.
63% of Scottish Voters are supportive of/not frightened of, using the mandates to go for another vote for Indy / plan B policy.
On 31/12/20 we are getting pulled out of the EU against our will.
A No Deal Brexit will cause catastrophic damage to our economy, health, human rights and wellbeing laws,
our parliament will get dismantled,
our NHS and Water privatised,
the Internal Market Bill will destroy devolution and put power back to the unelected Tories at WM….
But current SNP policy appears to be – wheesht for Indy, just one more mandate to ask nicely, and then, if Boris says ‘no’, we’ll thqeem and thqueem and thqueem.
It’s not exactly the best policy I’ve ever seen, or the most proportionate response to an imminent danger is it?
But for once its my turn to say to SNP fan club, ‘look at the polls’, and then try and explain the total lack of campaigning (in a Covid appropriate manner) currently not happening.
Nicola Sturgeon stated that a No Deal Brexit was the biggest, most damaging threat to the UK since WW2. With or without Covid it still is, and I do not want to be dealing with Covid with our health service privatised.
The true test will be next May’s elections. If the SNP can win enough seats to win an outright majority, Boris will have nowhere to hide and will have to give a referendum. Even with a majority made up of SNP/ Greens/ and any other party that’s pro indy, Boris will have to give it. It’s just unsustainable to keep saying “once in a generation blah blah”.
@C Griffiths,
Why would be give it. What repercussions does he need to be afraid of it be doesn’t?
I’m getting to the stage where I think Boris will have to try and persuade the SNP to have a Section 30.
@C Griffiths
Another post calling for SNP 1 and 2. If only we can get a majority. Not one person has called me out that John Swinney lied today. Still waiting…Snooze
C. Griffiths: That’s just absolute nonsense. Cloud-cuckoo-land wishful thinking. On what evidence do you base your opinion?
@ Fionan at 10.01pm: I’m 100% with you. You’ve said exactly what I think, but expressed it so much better than I could.
@ C Grifiths ‘Boris will have nowhere to hide and will have to give a referendum. Even with a majority made up of SNP/ Greens/ and any other party that’s pro indy, Boris will have to give it. It’s just unsustainable to keep saying “once in a generation blah blah”.’
Boris isn’t hiding – he’s sitting in an English parliament, representing England’s interests (and his own) with an 80 MP majority, and with absolutely no intention of going down in history as the PM who lost Scotland.
In order for it to be unsustainable for him to keep refusing a S30 order – there have got to be consequences for him that make it so. What are they?
He’ll lose MP seats in Scotland? Hmmm, been there done that, got the T shirt.
The MSM will point out how undemocratic and unfair he’s being, and he’ll be all hurt in his feelings and wake up one morning and ‘do the right thing’. Yeah right.
A couple of years ago, I saw the figures (and they will have changed by now) stating that Scotland’s oil fields were producing 2 million barrels of oil per day. All of that revenue (and cushy directors jobs) goes to London and the WM exchequer. 2 Million Barrels of Oil Per Day….
For every month, every year, every parliamentary term the PM’s of England can prevent Scottish Indy – all the investment potential raised from Scotland’s natural resources goes to WM, and from there, some of it goes to the English Electorate to keep them sweet come the next GE, so the tories (red and blue) can remain in power.
David Cameron while PM received about £200,000 in pay per year in the job – plus expenses. On standing down, within months, he and his wife were scoping out an estate in Scotland valued at offers over £23 million. Of course he had some earlier savings, and he was somewhat shy of paying taxes, but even so….
So really, what is in it for Boris to let Scotland go? compared to him keeping a grip of it for as long as possible.
@Fionan, 10.01
great comment – thank you.
The SNP right now reminds me of something the character Rick in the Young Ones said about his underpants; it’s only the stubborn under-stains that are holding them together.
The SNP aren’t going to get a majority next year unless there’s dramatic change at the top. And, incidentally, that will have very little to do with anything Wings or any other individual who opposes the Plan A strategy will have said.
There’s just too many negatives, things that are going to lose votes across a broad spectrum of voter-types. The Tories and MSM will milk all those negatives for everything they can.
It’s tragic. I won’t enjoy watching it. Most people here want to fix it before it’s too late. The SNP are heading for a big fall and blind loyalty won’t allow the party to do anything about it.
We need to decide whether it will be quicker to maul the ball over the line or get one fast runner to score a surprise try for Independence. But we need to decide soon.
Imagine if you are a woman voting in 2021. Do you give the snp one last chance only to find them not pursuing a referendum but instead bring in the GRA and a hate crime bill that leaves women out? Or do you accept all the evidence staring you in the face – that under Nicola there is no intention of independence. With that in mind would you vote snp knowing it would impact on you as a woman? Not to mention how it could affect safeguarding issues for children. No, you wouldn’t. You’d spoil your first vote and vote for another Indy party on the list.
By doing that at least in the future you’d have escaped the whole “turkey voting for Xmas” scenario.
You’d be surprised just how many women support both stu and Alex. As fionan said earlier it’s all about honesty.
And “honest” John swinney. He lied today. Not impressed.
They’re dragging this out for as long as possible. There must be a good reason. I bet stu knows.
Maggie C, thanks for the link to Angus MacNeil. Well worth a listen.
I don’t know why Boris doesn’t just say we can have an S30 but it will have to be voted for in the commons and then his 80 majority will vote against it. ‘Cause it will have to be voted on at WM, and therefore kiboshed by ‘democracy’. I do so hope Martin Keating’s case resolves this issue by deciding that we don’t need a S30, and what will the SNP stall us with then?
Great title for the article!
Another thing for those considering giving their vote to SNP, can you be sure that you’re not inadvertantly voting for one of the lying Alphabet women, given a place on constituency and or list, as a wee reward for their efforts in trying to jail Alex Salmond. Think about that, eh.
@Tannadice Boy says:
15 November, 2020 at 10:00 pm
“We are in trouble. And the trouble with politicians is they think we are thick.”
Exactly. But the media are not thick. Nor are the other political parties (well, apart from the Lib Dems).
COVID restrictions will still be here in one form or another come April. That might be why the media are not going hell for leather at the moment. Why waste ammunition?
Or maybe there is something more explosive waiting. Who knows.
He blew-his-cover totally for me during his very first interview with Ponsonby as Parliamentary leader, when he admitted he had no problem with Betty remaining as head-of-state, post Indy. He’s done and said absolutely nothing since to change my initial thoughts.
I knew it was bad. I didnt realise it was this bad. I got to 1 min 26 secs. 86 seconds of sheer condescending nothingness.
Mr Blackford, in fair, reasonable, unarguable terms, the SNP were given a clear mandate in 2016. It was clearly spelled out in your manifesto, there will be another referendum if ‘Scotland is taken out of the EU against its clearly democratically expressed will’ (and remember, that was just one example, the deal was ANY material change in circumstances from 2014). Since then, with May, then Johnson and the myriad of opportunities for a vote theyve since ‘masterminded’, it is actually some feat that we are not yet independent. Indeed nowhere near. The waffle, circumnavigation and complete lack of inspiration on show in this clip is unbelievable.
No Mr Blackford, I do not believe you any more. We are about to be taken out of the EU. What are you doing about it? Nowt, nichts, nada. Step aside. No Ms Sturgeon, you cannot have another mandate, you’re just takin good people for a ride. Unnacceptable. Step aside.
Im never demoralised at setbacks, I know we’ll prevail, but this sort of guff is utterly condescending. I feel Ive seen them for what they are for a while now, but this is the moment I realised the SNP, despite woke/Salmond stitch up etc are no longer the best available vehicle to achieve indy.
We shall overcome, but clearly not with Sturgeon & Blackford in charge.
Josef, are you equally scathing and dismissive of Canada and Australia? Actually we could add a few to the list of countries who have the Queen as head of state…
Ach, I stupidly clicked on the link to The National article…
Blackford “We know that the Unionist government in London will sink to enormous depths to frustrate us”
I see now why the Rev declined to engage. As has been clearly explained already, Boris has a clear democratic mandate at a UK level to NOT allow an indyref. He doesnt have to sink to any depths. And if pushed he could put the question to the UK parliament and democratically (by a UK definition) vote it, excuse my french ‘tae fuck’. Trotting out these lies Mr Blackford exposes you and the current SNP ‘leadership’ for the charlatans you are. I expect straight faced lies from tories, Labour, Libdems. Hence why I’ll never vote for them. It is a sad day when the SNP start peddling debunked untruths.
I have said since day one of this fat waste of a suit Blackford taking up the leadership of the SNP at Westminster, that he has no intention of fighting for Indy.
He must be on about £100 000 pounds a year.
His thinking is, “if these Yes Movement mugs think I am going to fight for Independence and lose all this, then they are dafter than I thought they were”.
This is the thinking of every single one of these so called “SNP freedom fighters”.
Apart from one or two, the rest of them are selfish, selfserving bastards.
The SNP are now the enemy.
Come on Famous15, robbo, Liz g, Pig Sty,. Where are you lot tonight.
Say just ONE bad word about the SNP,,, just fuckin one.
Not a peep.
You have all crawled up your own arse holes, and will re appear when all SNP Bad talk is finished.
Independence is normal, you four roasters certainly are not.
Why didn’t Leslie Riddock not jump in when Blackford asked for “one more Mandate, one more push” nonsense.
They have had multiple Mandates.
The Scottish people and Scottish Parliament have voted to have a referendum on our Independence and Sturgeon has done NOTHING with those mandates.
What is going to be so different this time?
Follow the money,,,it takes you right back to every one of these Chancers bank accounts.
NOT ONE OF THEM HAS ANY INTENTION OF FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE,
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!
@ Fionan 10.01pm very well said
An apt comment on twatter from Colin Dunn aka Zarkwan a MAN who has done more to educate the people on the benefits of indy by MAKING AND DISTRIBUTING posters and leaflets than the SNP or NS has done in the past 6 years
Colin Dunn
@Zarkwan
“Apparently we must support the SNP because the SNP need our support to continue doing what the SNP are doing, but they won’t tell you what that is.”
Those stupid illiterate Scots watch this
link to twitter.com
Frankly, why would you bother voting for the SNP.
It no longer makes any sense.
We can’t walk out because there are only three SNP MPs allowed in the chamber at any one time.
Oh, right I understand.Stupid me. Didums indeed.
It is time for the indy movement to take charge. By that I mean, at present, we are beholden to the whims, dithering careerism and intransigence of the SNP. That has to stop.
Every person in Scotland knows that this section 30 rubbish, is just that, rubbish. It is an excuse for the SNP to dither until the end of time. It is boll*cks.
The election next year MUST be turned into a vote on independence, if one is not held before then. But, instead of us hoping or begging the SNP will do so, it is now time for the indy movement to play hardball.
Given that we all know they will renege on their promises once re-elected (as they have done previously), let’s change the game. Instead of hoping the SNP will do the right thing, let’s make it clear to them that NOT doing so, will be electoral suicide.
The indy movement must say, ‘We the people demand that you hold an indyref, or make the election next year a vote on independence. If you do not, then we in the indy movement will NOT vote SNP at all in May 2021.’
In short the message to the SNP is call indyref, or lose the election in May. Enough is enough! We must have action. time is running out, FFS.
Let’s use the election to force an indyref. Let us, the people, and NOT the politicians decide IT IS TIME.
Such an opportunity may not come our way again. After next year, their will be nothing of Scotland to save.
Time to not just get angry at the SNP, but to use our political clout where it matters. Nothing will focus SNP minds as much as the threat that the indy movement will simply no longer vote for them.
@Robert Louis
“The indy movement must say, ‘We the people demand that you hold an indyref, or make the election next year a vote on independence. If you do not, then we in the indy movement will NOT vote SNP at all in May 2021.”
There is no need to do that. What YES Scotland needs to do as campaign for indyref 2021 with the expectation that it will happen. The London press have taken the “once in a generation” comment and made it into something such that the PM is using it on a regular basis.
We need to do the same with Blackford and Russell’s comments regarding 2021 being the date for indyref. Who cares if they are not cast iron guarantees, lets just act as if they are. Let us take their comments ‘out of context’ and March forward.
YES Scotland needs to build so much momentum that it will be that much harder for the SNP to do an ‘about turn’.
Willie says:
16 November, 2020 at 6:50 am
We can’t walk out because there are only three SNP MPs allowed in the chamber at any one time.
Oh, right I understand.Stupid me. Didums indeed.
I thought the same thing. Mr Blackford has no perception of what walking out means. It would seem it’s only a theatrical stunt to Mr Blackford.
Maybe only 3 walk out, but the point is, 0 walk back in again… ever.
Bob Mack says:
15 November, 2020 at 11:16 pm
How come these posters like Scots Renewables keep telling us Indy is the priority. Why not tell that to the SNP instead?
They are the ones dragging their hedls, not us.
Plenty of party members are unhappy. Many of us share some of your misgivings.
Problem is, there is only one viable route to indy in the short term (which is when we need it!). I am afraid that is via the SNP.
Not one of you has produced a viable alternative. All you are threatening to do is take your ball home.
To borrow from an Englishman, who was around when we were independent,
To SNP or not SNP.
That is the Question.
No way I would ever vote for an English Party again.
Very unhappy with how SNP are operating which is why I’m no longer a member.
In order to turn people toward Yes, we need to put all matters controversial off the table, such as GRA and Hate Crime bills.
Once independent that can be revisited as this has to be the all consuming focus.
Many love Betty, so she stays and we can revisit when Willie wonders around in a gold coach.
We must promise our pensioners a better deal than Westminster’s which is one of the worst in Europe.
We must show them how much of NHS England has been sold off with the rest to follow.
Show the corruption of the wasted billions of PPI contracts, the none disclosure Billions given to Tory
Supporters, the Chlorinated chicken, the steroid beef and all the dangers of US trade deals.
I can’t hear anything from SNP but mumbling drivel.
Where is the shouting and screening about these matters.
Dear God there is probably 70% of Scots that have never heard of the McCrone Report?
Embrace as many factions as we can and promise them a better ear in Indy Scotland.
I must say I find it amusing to see Blackford writhing in this interview and Riddoch does a good job of keeping the pressure on.
How many times does he say “the people of Scotland”, as if he sat once at an SNP conference and Alex Salmond held the crowd spellbound with phrase.
Its comes across as all jaded and cynical now.
If anything you know now what the No voters felt when they heard those platitudes and vacuous promises in 2014.
So, Effijy, why are people not at their local monthly branch meetings kicking up fuck?
What good does moaning on here do?
@Scots Renewables,
This site has produced viable alternatives to the SNP.
There are others who are going to get list votes. The burst ball belongs to Me Sturgeon and the SNP hierarchy who despite using all the rhetoric, apparently have no idea as to how it’s put into action.
Their focus is on other things they created all by themselves through their own arrogance.
With each passing day the SNP is becoming superfluous rather than indespensible
@ ScotsRenewables ar 8.41am
Some folk may be “kicking up fuck” at their local branches, but others realise the futility of wasting their time pissing in the wind against a system where the Party’s policy and power has become ever more centralised.
This latest blog by Iain Lawson may help explain.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Having a paid membership movement such as YES Cymru seems the way ahead.
Lesley Riddoch takes no BS and would be an effective leader.
The outcome of the SNP conference will tell us whether its more of the same obfuscation, or whether members have the bottle to empty out the foot-draggers holding us and Scotland back.
Blackford will be in no doubt that rank and file members expect a pre-election declaration of intent on independence itself not just more pleading to London.
I am tempted to say its like ground hog day again and again and again I dont listen to Blackford anymore after the first 5 – 10 – 15 odd times its like background noise it becomes annoying.
The selling job of this as yet unlicensed Vaccine refered to as a game changer by the government and a compliant media , a media who cant give any alternative view ,free will along with free speech is being shut down,
The pressure to force has had exactly the opposite effect far from encouraging people of the benefit of a Vaccine a real push back and hostility has built up against being forced, not invited not advised, being forced ,
The good cop bad cop routine by Labour and the Tory party fools nobody both are activly advocating withdrawal of our ability to voice a opinion any opinion there is a name for that and its not democracy in any way shape or form .
That situation leads to people questioning what exactly is the house arrest about is it really for our health and safety ? .
link to barrheadboy.com
Interesting guest post from the ISP over on Barrheadboy blog.
The thing that niggles me, is I see little difference between subjecting Scottish Democracy to the veto of a Section 30 Agreement, and in the same breath, subjecting Scottish Democracy to the parrallel veto of the UK’s Electoral Commission.
It’s the same thing.
It’s the same thing accepting the BBC and ITV will have a monopoly on broadcast media.
It’s a state of mind people. We need to junk ALL of this tacit interference and ‘padding’, and as sovereign people, take the unconstitutional, anti-democratic and unlawful colonial subjugation of Scotland (explicitly over Brexit), and use that act of colonialism to break the back of the 1707 Treaty of Union, and have the International Community accept and recognise that the 1707 bilateral Treaty of Union is breached, and thus void, and no longer exists.
Kill off the Union, kill it off by any legal means possible, because it cannot be resurrected, and the gross impropriety of Brexit allows Scotland to attribute the death of the UK Union to Westminster’s rash and dribbling incompetence and flagrant violation of the International Treaty between Scotland and England.
We can address the perfidious UK media, the electoral interference, the propaganda, the UK “Establishment” and all it’s grubby tendrils AFTER we have made safe the Constitutionally Sovereign bedrock of our Scottish Nation. Do this ONE thing, defend our sovereign ascendancy, and the Nation of Scotland can forevermore go to sleep in safety – no matter what.
We DO NOT need to dress up our cause and watch it labouring under the weight of all these superfluous ribbons, robes and niceties of political mandates and “Gold Standard” methodology. None of it is essential!!!
A rude and rusty Constitutional knife over 700 years old will cut straight to the heart of this rotten Union, and see the unpleasantness is done in one stroke.
It’s incredible the number of false flags and prevaricators who have appeared on here to increase the noise and amplify the dissatisfaction.
It’s become a poison echo chamber, with state actors mixing it.
Regardless of your individual concerns and frustrations, the opposition are making huge mileage out of every angry comment.
And there still is a case for pursuit of the S30. It’s simple politics. It’s a graphic illustration to ‘Nos’ and ‘Undecideds’ that Westminster have Scotland in an unacceptable, undemocratic grip. Add Johnson, Covid, and Brexit into the equation and there will be an unstoppable majority.
We didn’t have that a year ago.
Any plan B is a fight on Westminster’s own terms. They have previous in handling vassal states.
S30 is simply asking for what is rightfully and democratically Scotland’s and many people in Scotland are wakening up, simply because of this continuous refusal.
To everyone who wants to do battle with Westminster at their own grounds, I appreciate your anger, frustration and readiness to fight.
But I much prefer to caw canny and watch the S30 nonsense form a bigger majority on our home turf.
Johnson will go soon enough, maybe February. And who knows who will replace him. Hopefully the slimy Gove. He will be another S30 denier. I for one would welcome that.
The rope is getting longer and the noose is forming. We’d spoil the knot by entering a fray that would take decades to win.
Like Blackford, I too have been SNP since 1976 or so. Imagine, it’s a hell of a journey. I prefer to assume that the guy is doing his absolute best and he is still fully committed to independence.
If you don’t like what he does, or how he does it, vote him out. But some of the comments in this thread are a shame to Scotland and only a distraction on our path to independence.
ScotsRenewables @ 8:17am
For those that don’t believe, no evidence is ever enough.
For those that do believe. no evidence is needed.
There is a 3rd strand of people, those that make decisions based on evidence, not faith.
You have been posting here for many years, with a fairly long sabbatical until recently.
Every post you have made in the last few day’s put’s you firmly in the SNP Faith box. You don’t need to see the evidence, you haven’t engaged with what people actually say, rather respond on what you think they meant.
You make assertions without back up (AS & Stu drive women away, increase in support for Indy is due to NS & SNP performance)
Just for sport, can you go back & read the brilliant post by Fionan & try to counter her points?
Your response to Bob Mack is childish & beneath you.
Most recent polls show “Others” at 6% which is far higher than RISE/SSP have gotten.
Bob’s point, I believe, which you are completely ignoring, is that the SNP are not putting Independence unashamedly Front & Centre. Which is a massive problem, if our only vehicle isn’t interested in taking us to the desired location.
Your response to Efijy as well is cheap. SNP membership, even when it was 120,000 strong (party haven’t released numbers in a couple of year) has only ever been a fraction of Yes voters. So, the reason people aren’t at their local monthly branch meetings is probably because they aren’t members.
They are raising their concerns where they can. The SNP, or any party for that matter, do not own anyone’s votes.
.
Fair point Stu., when you write…
“Try to keep it clean folks.”
But seriously! That fat banker fae Skye!
We DID get pulled out of Europe against our will and Blackford, the Sturgeonite McWoke Westminster gravy train driver did fluck all except keep on filling in his WESTMINSTER Expense Claim Forms, and the SCOTTISH National Party Westminster 30 pieces of silver short-money forms.
Like EVERY election since Holyrood started in 1999 these people come crawling round looking for votes.
Blackford, listen up. The IndyBlogger Stu., used the term “bloviating”… you are a rotund fat bloviating banker and get this message from someone who lives in a MARGINAL constituency…
I. REFUSE. TO. VOTE. FOR. A. MCWOKE. SNP. THAT. PUSH. GRA. AND. ORWELLIAN. HATE. REFORM. BILLS.
At no point during my years of membership of the SNP donating lots of money and securing the votes of friends for the SNP was I ever, ever, asked to vote on, let alone support the agenda of a 0.3% minority of trans-activists who have slithered their toxic way into my party and destroyed it for their narrow political self-interest. Helped in full measure by their two-faced backstabber fae Dreghorn when she plays pretendy Borgen games with her hero and hot crush, Birgitte Nyborg.
No sir. No madam. No pronoun he/she/it.
I would like my SNP back WITHOUT the toadying Blackford/Humza bunch. Give them their marching orders.
The main reason the SNP are riding so high in the polls is the opposition have KILLLED 50,000 citizens…
Tonight, 16/11/2020 at 9pm. Dispatches: “Lockdown Chaos. How the Government Lost Control.”
FFS. “Lost control”. Bourach Boris has manslaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people because he is a lethal bungling clown.
Just when we really NEED a decent SNP to save lives we have the comedy act of “Frank, Get The Door”. Sturgeon is an act. A bad one. Her fingerprints are all over the implement that was inserted between the shoulder blades of the man who trusted her, gave her every political credential she now holds, gave her the First Ministership of Scotland and a political party on the bounce-back ready for IndyRef2.
What does she and Blackford and Yousaf the over-promoted useful idiot do?
Fuckk Scotland up. Fuckk Scots up. Fuck IndyRef2 up.
Rant over. Feel better.
(Sweary words spelt differently due to autocorrect function on WoS. Have you tried typing the word “ceasear”. It’s quite a clever system).
The SNP will say “Who they gonny vote for if not us?”
I remember Scottish Labour used to say that.
They are not saying it now.
@Eric McLean,
I live in a household with my wife. I have two daughters and three grandaughters with whom I socialised regularly before Covid. All those eligible voted SNP.
Today that is over. They refuse to vote SNP until they are satisfied that their rights as women are protected. I didn’t tell them to do that. They made their own minds up.
I am not alienating them The SNP are doing that on their own.
On a personal level, I watched the attempted stitch up of Mr Salmond. Illegal as well as appalling. Yet you think this should all be ignored to vote for the very people who carry out these acts or authorise them. We look on as they try to use the power of their office to hide the truth from a Committee investigating these events. Your philosophy is to just ignore it. Sorry, not going to happen.
I and my family would vote SN P tomorrow, if today the Murrells resigned and the NEC was disbanded. Otherwise I can do what I and my family feel is in our interests.
I will not vote for a party whose priorities are set by cliques and self interest rather than the greater good of all.
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp with a STRATEGY. I know….
So please try to stay calm. Observe Covid. No pushing, and don’t all rush at once.
Worthy of a read, while we all wait.
link to businessforscotland.com
Absolutely shocking reaction from Iain Blackford to Leslie Ridocks questions. A load of Fluff and Flannel from Blackford.
I want my country to be independent but I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth it. Swapping liars in Westminster for snake oil salesmen with a Highland accent in Edinburgh. I was very disappointed with him in that interview.
There are many thousands of great ,nay ,wonderful members of the SNP. They are the salt of this earth. They are led by charlatans and self serving individuals unfortunately.
Some like those above have to cling into the memory of what the party was rather than what it has become. The rot set in after ex Labour members joined and immediately took over the party structure. Since then everything has gone downhill.
They brought with them their outdated philosophy and centralisation of power to chosen individuals. The in fighting and back stabbing we used to see in Labour began in earnest within the SNP.
Maybe some ideas will eventually become accepted when their time is right and carefully planned rather than the take it or leave it methods used currently. I don’t know.
What I do know is that the aspirations of a minority are rotting the values of a party we once held dear. The senior figures in the SN P are promoting this minority to their cost.
To my mind it is pretty simple, a question of the lesser of two evils. If you don’t vote SNP 1&2 then there will DEFINITELY not be a referendum next year. Instead there will be a minority SNP government supported by the Greens on condition that the SNP accelerate their woke cocks-in-frocks/hate crime agenda.
New pro-indy list parties will gain maybe a seat or two and be powerless to change anything.
Your worst fears will come to pass and you will have no option but to campaign for the closure of Holyrood.
The SNP will be fighting this election primarily on a pro-independence platform. Your stance will send all the wrong messages, the Unionist press will have a field day and the SNP will say oh well, no support for indy, back to the (woke) day job.
Tie them up in a referendum and pre and post indy negotiations then dump them in 2026.
Or score a spectacular own goal in the great Scots tradition of snatching defeat from the Jaws of victory.
Great variety of views on here but my gut reaction is despite these problems we need to keep the SNP in power with the highest possible vote next May.
For me the saddest thing of the lot is that there is no comment from Nicola Sturgeon (the buck stops with her) on ANY of these issues. She could for example quite simply say GRA and Hate Crime bills are cancelled as independence is the priority but she doesn’t and that is the crux of the matter.
Footsoldier – Exactly.
And this is why more and more indenpendestas are asking exactly whose side she is on ?
@Scots Renewables,
How does an individual measure the lesser of two evils?
My girls feel their rights are more important than independence. Why? Simply because what is the point of being free in a country where your hard won rights are eroded by law in favour of those who are actually males but view themselves as whatever they wish on any given day and whose presence could cause anxiety to women in many situations.
I will back my girls all the way
.
Stuart Campbell,
I would like to donate a decent wedge of money to WoS to be “ringfenced” for…
The Wee Blue IndyRef2 Book.
Buddy, you got a huge amount of inspiration and wrote it all down in WBB1.
That, my friend, did a huge amount to help Scottish Independence.
Surely we are getting close to another literary burst?
The ancillary benefit may be able to inject some JUSTICE where the current McWoke government are doing everything they can, including throwing the kitchen sink and boring bank manager in chief, the nice Mr Swinney at stopping THAT inquiry into getting to the truth about the Sturgeonite McWokers efforts to kill off Alex Salmond.
What do you reckon Stuart? Surely it is time to write and publish the Wee Blue Book Guaranteeing IndyRef2.
By the way, Bob Mack and Deerhill, you wrote very eloquent words and elegant truth. I am hearing more and more of that nowadays.
P.S. The ringfence comment was dry humour. The Murrells fail to account properly for “ringfenced” money they are responsible for. Whilst I would be VERY HAPPY for the 200 copies of “WBB-IndyRef2 Guaranteed” that I paid for to go to the Murrells house and EVERY SNP constituency Branch so as to get EVERY branch membership aware of the Trans-GRA-Iceberg that the SNP-Titanic is sailing towards.
It seems Blackford went rogue.
The leadership aren’t happy with him according to an article in The Times, which is referenced by Politico’s Alex Wickham: –
‘The Times’ Kieran Andrews carries punchy quotes from SNP sources rubbishing his suggestion, with one making the point that if a referendum is to be held “it won’t be Ian Blackford who gets to decide the date”.’
“We need to prepare for the Referendum!”
“What referendum?”
“Exactly..lets move on!”
Its wee David Steele “Go home and prepare for Government!”.
Pitch:
‘The Blackford Files’. Ageing Val Doonican impersonator, faced with tricky but achievable task, does nothing at all in every episode. Theme music an easy-listening version of Bon Jovi’s Livin’ On A Prayer, Blackford rocking: ‘Ooh, yes, we’re halfway the-ere, ooh, nice, sitting on this chair…’
ScotsRenewables
“To my mind it is pretty simple..”
Yes, quite.
Times article is behind a paywall, and of course it will rubbish the idea.
So hearsay and using the Unionist press to prop up your utterly negative stance.
Bob@9.44
Totally 100% agree. SNP could easily drop the social engineering, come clean over. Alex Salmond, drop the charges hanging over Craig Murray and that at least would go some way to getting me on side.
BUT at the minute with several NHS board transgender inclusion guidelines in place, which opens access to women’s spaces to ‘Cross dressers’, Transvestites and Drag (persons). None of whom even claim to be women but who are men who get an erotic charge from dressing as such. Girls use the women’s toilets in hospitals too. Is this what the men of Scotland want for their wives and daughters?
I would like to vote SNP again but currently, it appears the ‘S’stands for Stonewall.
Humza Yousaf would be a fan of the modern American Civil Liberties Union for its srecent drift towards more censorious tendencies. Guess why that is happening, and who is being ‘protected’ by its increasingly illiberal direction…
link to greenwald.substack.com
I do not understand the reluctance to make the holyrood election a plebiscite for independence. Its not a coup, its not udi, its a perfectly democratic action. We dont need anyones permission so lets do it. FFS they stole our eu citizenship on an advisory brexit referendum.
link to isp.scot
A well argued point that even with a fair wind an indyref next year called from May is not viable. January 2022 is the earliest date. If there is a court challenge or we have to go to court to stop WM insterting a splitting ‘more devolution’ option-Vow2 iow).
Effijy would be at his branch meeting but I resigned
Due to a whole raft of unacceptable actions by SNP leadership.
No longer do I want to be associated with their priorities, their lack of
Transparencies and their inaction as our Sovereignty and rights are torn
up in our faces.
I have knocked on the doors, delivered leaflets, try to educate people everyday
and I don’t think you would believe what I must have spend supporting all things
Pro Indy.
It keeps me sane to be part of this site.
I do my best to highlight facts that visitors to this site should know.
I’m constantly trying to free my country any way I can but I’d never call it moaning.
Ian Blackfords clearly been watching his hero Kaa in The Jungle Book with all those “Trust in me!” pleas
@Scot Renewables
Your mind obviously doesn’t understand how D’Hont works then. The SNP are set to take all or almost all of the constituencies. Vis the unholy bunfight for constituency nominations. Nobody is pushing and shoving for a List nomination in the SNP because they know with divisors like 10 or 11 they have no chance of List seats.
What we need is a declared Yes majority. Which requires the SNP to admit that there are other Yes parties. If the SNP, Greens, ISP etc all sign up to a single Yes platform then the mandate will be seen and recognised.
Our European partners are used to coalition government. They understand multi party systems. They will ‘get’ it. But the SNP has to stop treating folk like ignorant unmathematical idiots.
Wow… and some SNP folk I know think Blackford should lead the SNP. Says a lot about the current leadership ‘talent pool’ in the SNP.
I found myself glazing over within 10 seconds of everything he said. Without fail. He is so boring and flat and talking wall to wall blah blah garbage, saying nothing over and over again… and using a huge amount of words to say it. He was just running down the clock on every response and answering nothing.
I have seen planks of wood with more wit and charm and ability to engage an audience. (Not unlike NS then really.) And it is not the first time I have listened to him and thought, what a patronizing windbag who obviously thinks people are so thick they cant see he is just waffling utter pish, but he really outdid himself this time. He really is a poster boy for the New SNP, a boring self important gobshite waste of space rat wank.
I watched all of that but I dont know why. The first answer and the last and all the ones in between were pretty much the same.
EH I hope all you Lot remember it’s Trans something week .
The whole week.
I hear Mr Hancock is looking to increase NHS England’s
Parking permits for Nurses to £1,400pa from £900.
The Tory Party put a cap on their pay and cheered about it
in Westminster. They didn’t supply them with PPE Kit and
Killed some of them.
The Tories asked us to clap them, which I always thought was
an insult when they couldn’t hear it, buy food with it or stop them
catching Covid.
Absolutely sickening.
Does anyone think this will encourage new nurses to start training,
Will this incentive bring in foreign nurses, will this encourage nurses to stay.
Another gear up to selling off the NHS.
Here’s the running order for harassment committee action tomorrow.
Double bill, kicking off at 10.15ish, featuring James Wolffe and Leslie Evans.
link to parliament.scot.pdf
-Nally Anders-
If the SNP dropped the gender and hate crimes bills, and rehabilitated Alex Salmond, how many votes would they lose? About thirty, all of them living on the Stirling Uni campus. How many would they regain? Several thousand. So why aren’t they?
-Iain Brotherhood-
Howling at your idea! Fantastic!
Mac @ 11:49
“Says a lot about the current leadership ‘talent pool’ in the SNP.”
Their Westminster heid bummer certainly likes to flounder around at the shallow end.
I was going to suggest he that he swap his usual three piece attire for a different look, comprising mask, snorkel and inflatable rubber ring. However, all the hot air he vents must be a by-product of some form of natural buoyancy, so he probably doesn’t need them.
Look people need to cut the New SNP some slack here. When the SNP could have been banking the means to call indyref2 at a time of their choosing they were really, really busy orchestrating the attempted stitch up of Alex Salmond.
Mike d :11:28 am
“I do not understand the reluctance to make the holyrood election a plebiscite for independence”.
Very simple Mike, there is an outside chance it might not win and they would all be out of jobs of nice little earners and pensions and of course these take priority over independence.
he outlines a strategy: you ask about tactics.
think, act, for yourselves.
the best mandate would be an overwhelming snp majority- seats and votes- next may.
many on this site threaten to weaken that mandate. how will that help?
barrie yer talking pish
best part of 6 bloody years and we are no further forward in fact we are in a worse position we were in on the morning after the 2014 vote when Cameron decided to let us know what the english establishment were going to do next and that wasnt what the NO side expected but we warned them about , yer getting HEE HAW MUGS
Barrie Gadgie- We have done exactly as you suggest for the last six or seven mandates. We are now in a much poorer position than we were in in 2014.
The ONLY agendas being advanced by the SNP leadership are the genderwoowoo agenda and Yusuf’s thought crime idiocy.
I did not join the SNP to allow men the ability to self-identify their way into harming women and girls.
Robert Graham – I see we have the same hymn sheet. :).
Voting in Argyll & Bute closes on Wednesday. Rhiannon Spear’s campaign pitch has been that independence is her #1 priority. Well it wasn’t a few weeks ago. She was saying she was all for devo max instead. I imagine that tweet has been deleted.
@Barrie Gadgie,
An overwhelming majority of SNP is no guarantee any more of a referendum vote, as you must be aware by now.
It also opens up the prospect of them feeling they have permission to act as they wish.
This is not about the SNP as a party, but it is more about the leadership of the party and the direction it is taking.
Obstructing justice. Trying to have potential rivals jailed. Removing decision making from members.Removal of women’s protections and creating laws to disadvantage real women.
I could go on ,but to what end?
barrie gadgie @12:35
Asking for an S30 isn’t a strategy, it’s just a plea.
You could feel Lesley’s toes curling.
I know how she feels.
Waffle from beginning to end.
Ian “Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against its will” Blackford there; one of dozens of useless bench-warmers in Westminster.
Seriously, how long would it take to check the legislative calendar for 2021, specify a referendum date & roll back the amount of time it would take to approve the legislation?
Thirty seconds?
Two minutes?
You check the calendar, get a consensus from the executive & publish your intention; it really is as easy as that.
Instead, we are treated like idiots with twenty minutes of bullshit, carrot dangling & incoherent waffle from someone who has zero fucking ability to get anything done beyond filing his CalMac & House of Bruar expenses on time.
And yet there are still hundreds, if not thousands of party faithful die-hards, who are happy to lap up repeats of the SNP’s phony party trick.
There may not be the will to establish a new independence party before the forthcoming Holyrood election due to the pandemic but if there is no alternative to a belligerent SNP, we can forget about a referendum until at least 2026.
WhoRattledYourCage
Excellent article by Glenn Greenwald. I bet he never expected to be writing that in a million years.
There’s a long and troublesome road ahead. The Hate Crime bill is probably just the opening shot.
Well said kapelmeister @12:53pm.
Muscleguy says:
16 November, 2020 at 11:48 am
@Scot Renewables
Your mind obviously doesn’t understand how D’Hont works then.
OK smart guy, riddle me this.
The 2014 referendum happened because the SNP had an OVERALL majority at Holyrood. They needed List seats to have that overall majority, and in fact won 16.
There hasn’t been one since. (Overall majority or referendum – take your pick)
Sorry if you are unable to make the connection, but it seems I understand d’Hondt at least as well as you.
Roll up Roll up joint the Vaccine Stakes get yer bets on before the odds drop do we have 90% protection no no a late entry now boasts a 95% success rate who will be the winner in the latest race to the finish , this is going to make the VHS v Betamax fight look like child’s play get yer tickets here ,
It’s like a bleedn game show or I am celebrity get me in there , raise the expectations built up the excitement and watch them Vaccines fly off the shelves that’s of course if your local centre has the right fridge capacity in order to keep the wonder drug under what was it again – 70 c yer domestic fridge or refrigerated wagon ain’t going to work with these little beauties some serious kit is going to be required and some amount of Liquid Nitrogen and that in itself evaporates very very quickly .
I don’t trust most nurses with any kind of needle having been jabbed by some very unsure and decidedly incompetent operatives , doctors are probably the worst some nurses are really good others would be lucky to get a pass mark, some kind of thermal protection will be required that usually includes bulk layers of fabric, that coupled with a nervous nurse well hope for the best .
Wow… now this site has become a platform for antivaxxers and for slagging off our NHS.
Thus destroying any credibility the ‘destroy the SNP’ motif might have had.
Stu should issue tinfoil helmets at the dor.
@Scots Renewables,
One of two comments don’t constitute a site. You tend to edge towards extremism. Trying to prove something?
kapelmeister says:
16 November, 2020 at 12:53 pm
barrie gadgie @12:35
Asking for an S30 isn’t a strategy, it’s just a plea.
It’s worse than a plea, it’s an abdication of Scotland’s sovereign constitution. It is capitulation.
ScotsRenewibbles…
No, it hasn’t.
Clutching at straws to defend the current SNP leadership is fooling nobody but yourself.
More and more are seeing through the duplicity, the scheming, the vindictiveness, the stonewalling and the incompetence.
The Blazing Saddles version of “Vote SNP or the Parly gets it!” won’t be fooling many come next year’s election, because that’s all they’ve got – threats. “The alternative to us is worse” is certainly scraping the bottom of the barrel when pitching to your own support, let alone those you hope to bring onboard.
Someone, and we all know who, has effectively neutered the party and created a creature of the status quo that pays lip service to Indy in return for what? The GRA and hate speech and let’s wait to see if Brexit is a bad thing after all and now is not the time and one more mandate and please Sir, I want another S30 and Boris will say Yes because… well, just because…
It’s time, in the words of a well known Glaswegian cook, for someone to take their jacket off and f**k off!
Breeks says:
16 November, 2020 at 2:02 pm
kapelmeister says:
16 November, 2020 at 12:53 pm
barrie gadgie @12:35
Asking for an S30 isn’t a strategy, it’s just a plea.
It’s worse than a plea, it’s an abdication of Scotland’s sovereign constitution. It is capitulation.
Erm… What constitution would that be, Breeks?
Meanwhile:
“Three of Britain’s biggest energy companies have agreed to build giant underwater power cables to bring Scotland’s vast reserves of renewable energy to millions of homes in England.”
The Guardian 16/11/20
Robert Knight, perhaps you could point to where I am defending the current leadership?
Thought not.
What I am counselling against is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That’s three very literal levers of power, Doug.
@Scots Renewables,
Grouse Beater did a very good article on Scotlands Constitution. You should read it. Amazingly titled
Scotland’s Constitution
Here’s an article that goes into a decent amount of depth about mRNA vaccines and why they seem to be an improvement over conventional ones, link to archive.is It’s from the PHG Foundation at the University of Cambridge so it should be reasonably accurate and trustworthy.
It’s worth reading carefully and in full as it explains what the advantages are, what the disadvantages are, what’s yet to sort out, etc.
It seems to be a pretty decent source to immunize yourself against all the bullshit in the MSM.
It’s apparent that most people who come here today are wondering what to do with their first votes where just a few months ago the uncertainty surrounded second votes. That’s progress.
The SNP are panicking. Those of us who attack and criticise them are being framed as part of the problem right now and getting a lot of attention, but we are actually the solution. The current leadership has zero chance of winning a majority next year, with or without our votes.
We need regime change in the SNP. Everybody is sick of them. The polls that suggest otherwise actually reflect dissatisfaction with Boris and his handling of the pandemic, not the appeal of Sturgeon. Who wouldn’t look good standing next to a maniac who wanted to let the disease kill half a million people?
Curiously, whoever replaces Sturgeon and the gang will almost certainly find themselves asking for the same thing in the election – a clear mandate on indyref2, both votes, and patience. The difference is they will be trusted and trust is key.
You can’t throw our heroes in jail, fleece us, and break a thousand promises on matters close to our hearts then expect us to trust you and vote for you.
If I was a blind loyalist, I’d be arguing for dramatic change at the top too. And I’d stop victim blaming. Nobody here was involved in trying to stitch up Salmond, nobody here took the ring fenced funds, nobody here failed on indyref2, nobody here walked us into the abyss of Brexit, and nobody here signed up to the mass suicide pact of “herd immunity”.
If you’re really loyal to the SNP and really want independence, you should be here with us amongst the growing ranks of those who know this leadership has been a disaster and that it can’t possibly win a majority next year.
ScotsRenewables says:
16 November, 2020 at 2:21 pm
What I am counselling against is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Depends on how you see which is which.
I see the baby as independence and a black box leadership as the bathwater.
Robert Graham
Your comments show your total lack of comprehension as to how medical science works.
An unprecedented world wide effort by brilliant scientists and collaborations between high tech companies has started to bring vaccines to the point of success and your petty minded and stupid response is to compare it to a bunch of fairground barkers peddling snake oil.
It is an astonishing and quite wonderful effort and deserves nothing but praise.
You, of course, will not be taking it due to your medieval mindset, but keep your tinfoil hat on. That should work.
No vaccine is 100% effective. Nor is any vaccine 100% safe. Just like any drug or medicinal product.
The reasoning to vaccinate is to protect as many people as possible.
If you want a really nasty vaccine, try live typhoid. My arm swelled up like a frigging balloon for three days. Still better than catching the fucking thing.
Who would you suggest supporters of Scottish Independence vote for in May? Genuinely curious
Doug @2.20pm.
Scotland has an abundance of energy sources from wind, to water to gas and oil, even coal, yet we pay through the nose for our power supplies.
Its a disgraceful state of affairs.
Renewables talking cack again.
The SNP could (and in fact has eventually gotten round to this) use Green support to push through votes on a referendum bill any time it likes.
So it’s a failure to push on with it faster that is the issue and not electoral maths.
“Mike d says:
16 November, 2020 at 11:28 am
I do not understand the reluctance to make the holyrood election a plebiscite for independence. Its not a coup, its not udi, its a perfectly democratic action. We dont need anyones permission so lets do it. FFS they stole our eu citizenship on an advisory brexit referendum.”
I’m in total agreement there Mike, Johnson has had ample time to agree to the S30 (If its needed at all which I disagree with). I can see no real reason why next years elections cannot double up as a plebiscite for independence.
I can only think that (Blackford’s claim aside) the SNP wants to milk it for another term before actually having to call an indyref if at all.
I can only presume ScotsRenewables is being paid to waste everybody’s time in posting his/her pish on here. He/she is convincing nobody. We can all see what’s going on.
I’m not convinced by Blackford’s assertions that they’ll be an indyref next year, let Sturgeon and Swinney come out and publicly state that there will be an indyref next year, then, just then, I might sit up and take notice, until then Blackford’s claims, must be taken with a pinch of salt, he’s not even an MSP.
I only pop in here now and again but was wondering if anyone had found out where the ring fenced money was, especially as the net assets in the accounts were only around £200000k?
Intriguing!!
The tables have turned on Johnson two-thirds of Scots want an indyref during the next parliament, with or without Johnson’s S30. Sturgeon MUST recognise the will of the Scottish people on this one, we voted her, and her party into power to do our bidding, not to go off on a tangent with the GRA bill and the Hate Crime bill.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18873631.scots-want-indyref-within-five-years—even-uk-says-no/
Pete @3.30pm
Pete.
I’m told the ringfenced indy funds are in here and are actually £879,000 now by The Dugs faithful. Page 27, note 20.
link to search.electoralcommission.org.uk
I recall Scientists reporting that smoking had no connection with Lung Cancer.
If you seen the movie Erin Brokivitch Scientists assured the water killing people wasn’t their doing.
Do you remember the thalidomide drug that Scientists said was safe.
Have you seen the more recent factual movie “Darkester”?
The Du Pont scientists said their product was safe but it seem that 99% of
the plant is now more likely to have cancer due to their products. (Really)
I took away credibility from Westminster Scientists who told us wearing a mask does nothing.
It’s blatantly obvious it reduces what you breath out and what comes in.
Never heard them apologise or state why it makes sense months later?
Of course there are great scientists but they have bills to pay too and if the drug company says
It has to go out a sellable, it will go out.
I fear this race between so many companies can only lead to short cuts and greater risk to users
Over the long term, but I would love to be wrong?
RepublicofScotland
Thanks but how can it be debtors and prepayments?
Who is the debtor?
How can it be ringfenced when net assets are only a few hundred thousand?
Thx for trying but that is no answer.
Back to ‘snooze’.
@ Scots Renewables re ‘throwing the baby out with the bathwater’.
With a No Deal Brexit, The Internal Markets Bill, the Civil Service Hub in Edinburgh – if we do not go all out for a plebiscite Holyrood Election in May 2021
we won’t have Bathtub anymore, never mind baby and bathwater.
Timing wise and events wise, It is that crucial.
Anybody got a link for tomorrow’s harrassment committee meeting?
Pete @3.58pm.
I take your point Pete, to get ot the bones of the matter, ask in here you’ll have at least half a dozen replies in a few minutes as I did, though I’m not at all sure you’ll be any wiser.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
If I recall correctly Nikla said there would be a referendum in 2020 ,last December,
I stopped voting SNP last year, never been a member of any political party, dyed in the wool yesser, looking for an alternative I checked out Scotia Future, looks like they’ll get my vote next year,even considering joining, better than spoiling my ballot paper which was my alternative.
This is one of Nicola Sturgeon’s top three recent books. The synopsis is…interesting, in the context of who us recommending it.
link to waterstones.com
@Pete says:
16 November, 2020 at 3:30 pm
“I only pop in here now and again but was wondering if anyone had found out where the ring fenced money was, especially as the net assets in the accounts were only around £200000k?”
Slight typo?
£200,000k = £200,000,000
Now that figure would be nice 🙂
Under Blair Labour calculated they could ditch socialism and still get elected as socialist voters had nowhere else to turn. Under Sturgeon the SNP has calculated they can ditch nationalism and still get elected as nationalist voters have nowhere else to turn. Of course once Blair was found out he quit politics and Labour never got elected again.
You’ve got to admire his chutzpah!(hint: Oh no you don’t.
It’s not chutzpah,it’s Trumpian level cognitive dissonance).
I can’t believe the posters in the National who think we are going to have a quick referendum and it will be independence in ’21.
There is no chance of an indyref in 2021, if we don’t start till post May there is no time for an indyref in 2021. Any politician who tells you there is going to be a 2021 indyref once you obediently vote SNP in May, is lying to you.
On a related note early this year NS said she was asking the EC to test the indyref question. Then in March there was a wee manifactured argument where Gove apparently wrote to the EC telling them they’d be wasting their time testing the indyref Question and Russell responded ‘outrage blah blah’ . It was a story in the National.
We’ve heard nothing more so I’d like to know if the EC are actually testing the question because they ought to be finished and reporting by now. Have they actually been asked?
Maybe Wings can find out.
@astonished: ‘six or seven mandates’: remind me, which were they? ‘a better position in 2014’: what, a minority supporting indy?
@kapelmeister: you’re right, ‘s.30 isnt a strategy’, it’s a tactic.
@bobmack: ‘An overwhelming majority of SNP is no guarantee any more of a referendum vote, as you must be aware by now.’ it was in 2011!
evidence, folks, evidence…
Denise
Aye, the Scot Govt formally asked the Electoral Commission (EC)to test an indyref question in Feb 2020.
The Scot Govt then wrote in March 2020 advising the EC that work on an indyref had been paused and asked the EC to stop testing an indyref question.
The EC had not begun testing an indyref question due to Covid restrictions, so no work has been done by the EC on an indyref question.
I wish Rev Stu would put ‘tinfoil hat’ on the banned list – it’s a meaningless term, only ever used as a pejorative. And ‘antivaxxer’ as well. Sloppy insults, nothing more.
The gradual is
Robert @3.59
If you log on here tomorrow you’ll get a link to the inquiy
link to scottishparliament.tv
Today’ Scottish Covid figures appear to show some improvement.
Scottish numbers: 16 November 2020
Summary
717 new cases of COVID-19 reported
6 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends)
98 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
1,227 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
10,093 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 8.3% of these were positive
For whatever reason Sunday and Mondays figures are generally low but Tuesday shows adjusted
Figures for those days next afternoon.
If we still have an average new cases number above 1,000. Per day I think extra measures will kick in?
Ian @5.32pm.
I’ve read that the terms “Conspiracy Theorist and “Tin Hat” were created by the CIA, after the release of the Warren Commission report (The events surrounding the assassination of JFK) of which many folk found it quite unbelievable, the terms were used to demean those people.
Robert @ 3.59 pm
This link will take you to Parliament TV where it’s broadcast from ,
link to scottishparliament.tv
Also the public papers for tomorrow’s meeting ,
link to parliament.scot.pdf
Barrie Gadgie – Here ye go:
2014 votes no
2015 SNP win westmonster
2016 SNP win holyrood
2017 SNP win westmonster
2017 indyref2 vote won in holyrood
2019 SNP win EU election
2019 SNP win westmonster
2020 indyref2 again voted for in holyrood. Vote won.
( I copied this from a zarkan poster. He deserves all the credit)
I make that at least six mandates. Yet the NEC of the SNP have no record of discussing independence since 2014.
I am a member and I am appalled by the lack of coherence, planning and strategy to obtain our freedom.
The SNP heirarchy do not have a plan A, never mind a plan B or a super-secret plan C. Without significant changes at the top the SNP will no longer be getting my money, time and effort.
I get that you think we should all unquestioningly unite behind the murrells but we can now demonstrate, beyond any doubt, that they are leading us nowhere.
barrie gadgie says:
16 November, 2020 at 5:07 pm
evidence, folks, evidence…
Where is the evidence Boris Johnson will ever agree to a Section 30 Agreement?
Grey Gull @ 5.37 pm ,
Sorry, I didn’t notice that you’d replied to Robert as I hadn’t refreshed this page , I’m just in from shopping to stock up again before we go into level 4 lockdown on Friday which I’m pretty sure is going to be announced tomorrow .
The gradualist choir in the SNP are now really panicking first it was SC sent in to antagonise Stu and cause a rammy with his disinterest in chicks with dicks (his words humza useless) now we have Scotsrenewables telling people to ignore the cocks-with-frocks (his words again humza useless) and vote for the SNP 1 and 2 because NOT doing so will damage our chances of indy
BOTH are appealing to many thousands of members and voters to ignore this LUNACY , YET to make THEIR job even EASIER all THEY have to do is to get 1, that is 1 person, Nickla to turf this lunacy out and STATE A CONFIRMED DATE for a ref OR mandate a plebiscite HR ELECTION , JOB done then they can continue their worshipping and adoration without engagement with the unwashed and troublesome
Ian Brotherhood@5:23pm
‘..I wish Rev Stu would put ‘tinfoil hat’ on the banned list..’
Not a tinfoil hat wearer myself, I prefer my Bacofoil bunnet, and for special occasions, an Alcan O’Ranter….
Na no having that republic of scotland and ian b
Tin hat is a ww1 term for the “tin helmet” troops wore then.Simple as that.
Conspiracy theory is just that- you’ve just created one right there noo lol.
Conspiracy has been around for centuries ffs.
Why don’t we get these banned too then? Sighs
The bug
Just like flu
It’s a hoax
Maggie C. No worries!
I think you’re right about the lockdown. Hope you managed to get what you wanted at the shops and folk aren’t going daft again clearing the shelves.
George Keveran’s column from today’s National about the AUOB’s National assembly on Saturday,
“ AUOB openness stands against SNP’s stifling of debate “
link to archive.vn
Grey Gull ,
There was no panic buying but how many people actually pay attention to the news that we could be in lockdown again , They don’t pay attention to the guidance as it us , They just don’t think it applies to them . I got off lightly today, I only had to tell three people that they were too bloody close to me . LOL
@AYRSHIRE ROB –
You’re entitled to your opinion, as are we.
Regardless of the origin of the terms, they are commonly used as pejoratives, as you just proved.
It’s your choice to defend mainstream narratives about the bug but there’s no need to use those terms. If you use them as part of your ‘argument’ then you don’t really have one – you must also then accept that unionists can deploy the terms ‘conspiracy theorist’ and ‘tinfoil hat’ against you when you raise perfectly-well grounded and verifiable historical facts backing the case for Scottish indy.
You can’t expect to have it both ways, at least not without being challenged.
Well Ian
If you and others use terms like
THE BUG
JUST LIKE FLU
ITS A HOAX
I and others find that quite pejorative too don’t you think. Worldwide this “just like flu” insult has killed approx 1.35 million people!.
Theres never been a corona virus type pandemic like this for over a century.
That demeans those people that have died and is an insult to the doctors,nurses and health care workers who have tried to save them.
A vaccine is only a part mitigation to try and help people combat it-your against that too I believe.
People need to wear a mask socially distance where they can,wash there hands or we’ll never see the end of this cursed thing.
The virus is winning at the moment.You think that’s good for us?
robertknight says:
16 November, 2020 at 2:18 pm
“Clutching at straws to defend the current SNP leadership is fooling nobody …
“More and more are seeing through the duplicity, the scheming, the vindictiveness, the stonewalling and the incompetence.
“Someone, and we all know who, has effectively neutered the party and created a creature of the status quo that pays lip service to Indy …
“… In return for what? The GRA and hate speech and let’s wait to see if Brexit is a bad thing after all and now is not the time and one more mandate and please Sir, I want another S30 and …”
Robert, you say ‘someone, and we all know who, has neutered the party’. I suppose the ‘we all know who’ refers to NS. Presuming that to be correct, I equally suppose we all know her famous assertion of her dislike of the word ‘National’ in the SNP’s name. If it had been down to her, she would never have used it. If only she could, she would like to remove it, even now.
Such a nasty word, after all.
Robert, please don’t give her too many ideas.
You may just have given her the perfect way to keep the N in the letters SNP (never change a winning ‘logo’ after all), while removing everything she finds offensive about it. That nasty, horrible ‘N’ word … The next thing for the guillotine in our New Scotland, as the NS Revolution keeps powering its way forward …
And – please remember this, Robert, as we move hell-bent towards the Great Scottish Dystopia NS is sailing us towards as she aims at it through her telescope – if that ‘N’ causes her to feel offended, then that’s sufficient proof to demonstrate that it must be offensive. And if it makes her feel afraid, then that too proves that it must be an incitement to hatred. And all hateful things must be removed, so that Dystopia can be achievd …
So goes the ‘new’ thinking in the ‘new’ Scotland that she is bringing to birth … Not so much the ‘New Lichties’ versus the ‘Auld Lichties’ of Robert Burns’ time. More the final ‘Twilicht’ of all Common Sense as we move with ever increasing speed towards the total darkness of her New Scotland Dystopia which she mistakes for the Ultimate Light of the world …
There are ways which to men (and to women) seem good – so superbly good – but their origin is Pride, and their end is Hell … ‘Here we go: Full steam ahead…’
Anyway, granted all this, NS might just be able to get that horrible ‘N’ in the ‘SNP’ arrested, and jailed for life. Robert, you may – alas, unwittingly – have given her exactly what she needs …
Once Humza’s Hate Crime Bill becomes law, immediately after NS wins the May election, she can make public what she has already accomplished. (Because it will be NS who won it, for sure – it always is, isn’t it? Who else could ever do so?)
The fact that she usually did it with the help of all these loaned votes doesn’t matter. If you want to be conned by ‘Loan Sharks’ it’s your own fault, for being silly and easily taken in. Same thing for ‘Loan Sturgeons’ – so don’t complain! It’s all your fault, not hers …
Loans which were never recovered, and never paid back. Loans which have magically disappeared. No doubt because they are now ever so subtly and wonderfully – but quite invisibly – woven into all her accounts. Including her accounts of all her great political successes. Especially the electoral ones. So deft, so quick with the fingers. Quite an Irvine weaver …
Anyway, what I wanted to say, Robert, was: much as I admire your posts, please stop giving that Magician Lady more and more ideas. Or else you might wake up one day and discover that SNP – yes, the SNP to whom we all so gullibly loaned our votes (and some of those on here so much time, and energy, and money) – actually means … Wait for it! … now means what she made it mean (Nik’la in Wonderland: ‘words mean what I say they mean) … yes, you got it: the ‘Scottish Neuterization Party’.
Vote for the Party that Neuters you!
And it has meant that all along, albeit under cover (without telling anyone) ever since NS (Neutralizer Sturgeon?) took over its reins … ? ‘All along’ meaning, historically, since the end of 2014. But that really means for ever, because that is when the New Scotland began.
All preceding history of the SNP, everything that it did or was prior to 2014, will be removed once and for ever from the website. Not just omitted, but erased. Reduced to a heap of dust and ashes, in a way that makes it unrecoverable. Burn the archives, delete the texts, destroy the evidence. It will be airbrushed out of history, and never more brocht to mind. It never existed. It will be made to vanish and disappear entirely by the Great magician … immediately after the Great Dystopic Victory of 2021 … in the wake of which all things will be ‘made new’.
This is a revolution. The calendar will now start from the year zero. This was formerly mistakenly called the last three months or 2014, but this must never be known or mentioned, and that awful word 2014 is now banned. It will be replaced with the word ZERO, referring to the year ZERO, which is the moment when our real ‘beginning’ actually came into existence, with NS as the origin of the New Species.
Well, the survivors might say, at least the SNP is still ‘Scottish’ … That’s at least something. And so you might, indeed, be allowed to believe, for a little while longer. … Unless, of course, the ‘S’ in SNP has also been secretly changed … Without anyone telling you about it … Maybe it no longer means ‘Scottish’ after all, in this Brave New World that ‘Sturgeon the Brave’ is bringing into existence …
In fact, the next thing we might be allowed to hear from the Great Magician is that the offensive and offending ‘Scottish’ has also disappeared up her sleeve, and been reduced to non-existence. Does that ‘S’ now mean … well, what begins with an ‘S’? …
… Oh no! … Surely not … Yes, you’re getting there … The Great Scottish Bake-off (whereby your auld Scotland has been baked dry, burnt down, abandoned, neutered and finally packed off into the Great Ether of Never-Never-Land) means that ‘S’ in ‘SNP’ now stands for … that’s right, you guessed it … the great unmentionable … ‘Sex’ … ?!
‘You are now ruled by the Sexual Neuterization Party … in our Multi-Gender Puberty-blocking Plutocracy’ … Imagine your joy as the loudspeakers blare it out from the tanks of Police Scotland’s ‘Sex Liberation Army’ as rumble through the desrted streets of a locked-down Embry Toon, and Glasgae tae, and every other city, town and village in the landmass (and island-mass) that used to be called Scotland …
Imagine the thrill of the locked-up population throughout that land as they cower behind their curtains to hail these liberating tanks and raise a gurgled and half-swallowed cheer at the arrival of this New Dawn: … ‘Your liberation is at hand and has has now been accomplished. Long live our once and for ever Neuterization!’
What a joy to be even half-alive on that Day!
And if that, although not yet publicly announced, is what has actually already happened to the ‘S’, and also, similarly, to the ‘N’, well …
… Well, what about the ‘P’? What does it stand for? Maybe the ‘P’ is still a party; maybe even the only one in town … But if so, you can only begin to wonder: What kind of ‘party’ is it …?
Who’s for partying with the Sturrells in that Beut House of theirs …? (Which some say – whisper it [don’t get caught, or overheard] – used to be ours …) And what kind of party will that be? Whose party is it? What kind of Beauty (Butey?), or Ugliness, is this?
Some might be delighted, and want to join in. Others – more and more of us, it looks like – not.
More and more of ‘Us’ being these ‘others’ who shudder to think about what has actually been happening under our noses, and what worse things are brewing even now. More and more of us who really do not feel like partying, not with that lot, and really do not – DO NOT – want to be there.
‘I’ve [still] got some Common Sense left; please … Get me out of here!’
With apologies to Robert Knight (robertknight). Not aimed against you, Robert, in any way. Needless to say, I do agree with the sentiment of your post.
But we should not despair. I am very confident that what is numbered is not the Independence Movement, but the days either of the SNP as such, or, alternatively, of its current leadership. If the SNP implodes, it will be messy, but it won’t deal any fatal blow to the movement.
The SNP has not been the heart of the Independence Movement for quite some time now, and still the movement grows. Everything is heading in the right direction. More and more, it is the people themselves who want independence, not the SNP. And more and more, it is the people themselves, as a whole – whatever their Party political leanings might be, or might have been, or could become – who will win it.
This is a gain, not a loss. It is even the best possible way forward.
If independence were to be simply the victory of a political party (which is the current SNP’s pathetically puerile, essentially silly and self-serving dream), then it would be possible to undo it as quickly as it has been done. For instance, by another political party, which replaces the one that supposedly ‘won it’.
When the ‘winner’ party that was supposed to have won our independence falls from grace – as all political parties inevitably do, sooner or later – whatever party replaces it will set about undermining and dismantling whatever it did. Even if Scotland remained nominally independent, in practice it will tie her once again to our southern neighbour’s apron strings. Independence undone by stealth, from within. It probably wouldn’t be difficult to achieve that end, if the SNP’s version of independence had failed to cut these apron strings – dare I say ‘butcher’ them? – in the first place, in any case.
By contrast, when independence is a victory won by the people as a whole (who comprise a wide variety of political stripes, and are not restricted in their loyalties to one particular political party), then that victory will indeed be permanent. Sure, secure and lasting. Nothing, thereafter, will be able to undo it. Independence has to be won by the people, otherwise what is won is not independence at all.
If it seems to be won by a political party – just one political party – it might very well end up not in the freedom of a free society, but in subjugation instead, Subjugation, that is, to the particular political party which claims to have won it and in fact seeks to impose, for ever and a day, its perpetual hegemony over the whole population. (Doing so even under cover of all kinds of high-sounding words spouting vacuously about independence).
I have lived in a one-party state before. Including a one-party in a newly independent country. No thank you – never again.
That kind of one-party existence would never do for a country like Scotland. Or for a people like the Scots, old and new. The SNP should stop dreaming of it. They should quit trying to use the independence movement as a means to achieve whatever their true political goals, largely unstated though increasingly evident, now are.
Instead, they should be co-operating with others, not of their Party, who genuinely want and will work for what is supposed to be their Party’s primary objective: Scottish independence. They can only achieve that goal by becoming part of a wider movement, which is and always has been greater than themselves. Their goal cannot be achieved by their attempt to subjugate that movement to themselves, or to whatever other ends they may secretly (or openly) have in mind.
Time for the SNP to grow up. And serve the cause. Instead of making the cause serve them.
@Colin Alexander
Thanks
“Testing the question”!! Doesn’t that tell us all we need to know about subjugation. Why on earth should we get the approval of a UK body to our question? Especially as it is the same one already “approved” for the 2014 referendum.
Grinding my teeth – again.
@ wull
The way things are going I’m thinking the Scottish Notional Party might be a more apt description…
…As the current “management” seem only to harbour some highly diluted, vague, ethereal, nondescript, maybees aye / maybees naw, conceptually marginal inklings of saving Scotland from the ravages of the “big government” in the Clingondom of England.
Que Trainspotting’s… It’s a shite state of affairs… 🙁
Guess we’ll just huv tae wait and see the outcome of the conference to see if enough of the remaining membership can wrestle back a semblance of better focused control and influence.
rob @6.03pm.
Fair enough Rob points taken, though it should’ve been tinfoil hat, no matter, anyway out of sheer interest, here’s an MIT engineer puts the tinfoil hat to the test with surprising results.
link to web.archive.org
To the above responding to me post, I understand that Uk gov’t holds the cards, but as I said if SNP win an outright majority it would be extremely difficult to refuse a second referendum. If still do after that, then the courts is the only option.
Dan says:
16 November, 2020 at 7:38 pm
@ wull
Guess we’ll just huv tae wait and see the outcome of the conference to see if enough of the remaining membership can wrestle back a semblance of better focused control and influence.
It won’t matter to the haters and rabid pack dogs on here if Conference gives a firm date for the referendum. For reasons best known only to themselves the destruction of the SNP as it currently exists is more important to them than independence.
Fortunately this is now such a small echo chamber that even the Unionist press – desperate themselves as they are to discredit the SNP – are not reporting it.
Being a researcher, I tend to like facts, as opposed to Mr. Blackford’s waffle and prevarication:
Fact – Treaty of Union exists
Fact – Any signatory party to a treaty may withdraw from it
Fact – Brexit represents a breach of UK union (Art VI)
Fact – Scotland is a sovereign people/nation
Fact – 48 SNP MP’s is a majority of Scotland’s sovereign national representatives
Fact – A majority of Scotland’s sovereign MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from UK
Fact – As a matter of law a referendum is not required for independence
@Scots Renewables,
Rabid pack dogs on here!!
Have a word with yourself bud.
Had a random thought, watching this random throw-up on Youtube below. It’s something I would never normally watch, ironically, and certainly would not have chosen it for myself. It’s a beautiful model talking about her ‘white privilege,’ and blah bah blah, the usual. But she said something that made me wonder, when she was talking aboot how 53% of 13-year-old American girls are unhappy with their bodies. Does this tie in with the recent huge jump in young girls putting themselves forward as trans men, and for the surgery required? How much of this body dysmorphia is media-sanctioned, and just young teenage body horror in a new form? How much is just a trend that most of these lassies will grow out of, if they don’t get surgery? I dunno, just a thought. Talk amongst yourselves. Sure somebody probably already thought of it before anyway.
youtube.com/watch?v=KM4Xe6Dlp0Y&ab_channel=TED
@AlfBaird
FACT – Any declaration of independence that is not transparently and obviously supported by a majority of the population will fail
Ok right ROS 7.43pm
Am off tae get ma bacon foil stock up from Aldi the mora.Does bacon foil work?I’ll put this to the test lol
@ ScotsRenewables at 7:49 pm
“Haters and rabid pack dogs” seems a bit of a leap and unnecessarily derogatory in describing many of the btl commenters on here who have rightly questioned the tactics and other actions and behaviours of the party and those within it.
I note you didn’t respond when I suggested the party might well fair better with their vote share if they cracked on with what most of their supporters want, rather than pushing shite highly divisive policies they don’t.
The YES movement has worked its socks off for years to maintain and build support towards Indy, and the SNP have gathered up those votes without them expending much effort as they were the natural choice to hoover up Indy votes.
Now that the party have been given multiple mandates to kick the ball, it might have been an idea if they had noticed the spherical object at their feet and done something with it, rather than pissing around and allowing clock to tick tock down to the last few seconds of remaining play.
As for this site’s traffic, one wonders how it compares to the site you set up…
a straight answer will not be drawn out of Ian Blackford against its will
Alf Baird says:
16 November, 2020 at 7:52 pm
Fact – As a matter of law a referendum is not required for independence
Better tell Martin Keatings before he wastes any more time or money, eh?
@WRYC,
is this it,
link to youtube.com
@ScotsRenewable
The majority came because the SNP voters found a sweet spot of constituencies and list seats. The next election their votes went up, they won more constituencies, they movef off the sweet spot, that meant they got fewer list seats, lost more list seats than they gained constituencies.
Since then their vote has only gone up. So the prospect of getting back to that sweet spot would require huge numbers of SNP voters to sit on their hands and see unionists take constituencies.
OR we accept that the SNP are going to steamroller the constituencies and vote for a Yes party on the List which has not won any constituencies. With 9 constituencies in a region the SNP could get 50% of the vote on the List but that 50% gets divided by 10 leaving them with 5%. All those SNP votes utterly wasted.
That was what happened here in the NE last time and the SNP are set to take all the constituencies this time so they won’t get a List seat. Last time all the List seats went to unionist parties. So if you vote ISP we will be in the running (no divisors in at least the first round) in the running to take unionist seats.
Elect Unionists or Yessers? Waste your vote and elect Unionists by default or elect Yesers? Your choice.
Scot, why are you here if this place is all that you say it is?
We might be a pack of treasonous rabid dogs right now, but when we win that all changes.
We’ll be the ones conducting investigations and going after former ministers. We might be glad of that new procedure they put in place.
People like you will just melt away, as will the snow and all the dykes.
@Scot Renewables
That argument: the SNP got a majority once they can do it again. is an SNP talking point. I have heard SNP people make it. It was made in the Penicuik Yes Group debate between the SNP and ISP and it is bogus as I have explained.
The SNP know it is bogus. Yet they make it hoping people will be taken in by it. Are you a patsy? or do you have an Independent brain?
Scot Finlayson, thanks.
@ScotsRenewables 7.49pm
The SNP announcing a date for a referendum signifies precisely nothing unless they have a method of holding it. The dogs in the street know this isn’t the case, even if they aren’t a rabid pack. A commitment to holding a referendum only carries weight if it has a serious prospect of coming to pass.
All the evidence is that the SNP aren’t serious: they haven’t challenged the legal status of a referendum without a S30 Order despite having 5 years to do so. They have set their face against having a Plan B of any sort, despite widespread support for it in the movement and in the party.
It suits your agenda of course to caricature what people BTL here, and no doubt elsewhere, say about the SNP and its manifest shortcomings. You’re just another in a long line of unreasoning party loyalists and gradualists shit posting here. The SNP doesn’t need help from anyone here damaging itself: it’s doing a fine job without our help.
Perhaps this place is an echo chamber. Your comment about the yoon press is somewhat odd: all we can really expect from them is monstering and duplicity. The more pertinent question about the MSM surely is why they are pulling their punches about the SNP: the obvious answer is of course that they are confident the SNP are stodgy gradualists with no hope of delivering independence this decade.
I’m not interested in destroying the SNP: few of us are, altho’ doubtless some hate what it has become. I wish mainstream members well trying to redirect the party, but that’s a matter for them. The SNP isn’t the movement. It’s got little hope of delivering a vote, still less independence, in the next 5 years without radical change. You and others are obviously fine with that, but many of us aren’t.
Ian Blackford:A considerable number of negative comments towards him.
Try putting yourself in his shoes – what authority does have within the SNP? What support does he have from SNP HQ? Does he have regular meetings with the First Minister to decide on policy?
Blackford’s repeated declarations at Westminster that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU doesn’t seem to be SNP policy does it? Ever read/heard the First Minister endorse his statements?
SNP policy appears to be Covid. Sub-policies Wokism and Hate Crime.
I for one just would not want to be pointlessly spouting what he does whilst knowing full well that the First Minister isn’t interested.
I don’t need a charistmatic, orator as leader, I want persons of integrity in government.
I consider Iab Blackford a fine, decent man.
@Muscleguy 8.32pm
“The SNP know it is bogus. Yet they make it hoping people will be taken in by it. Are you a patsy? or do you have an Independent brain?”
Yes, yes he is. His responses fairly reek of it. It’s deeply worrying there are so many like him supporting the unreasoning “wheesht for indy” mantra.
1)The OED
Its earliest use of ‘tin foil hat’ as something to wear at a party etc 1884
As a means of ‘protection’
1982 Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) 16 May a25/5 A Cleveland woman telephoned last year to complain that her neighbor was shooting an invisible death ray at her. She wanted the police to stop it. The dispatcher suggested she wear a tin foil hat and put tin on her windows to deflect the rays.
WRYC 8.00
link to twitter.com
ScotsRenewables
A sovereign signatory party nation withdrawing from its own treaty-based alliance is not in any way, shape or form UDI.
On the matter of a referendum, I believe Mr. Keatings may now be aware that:
“As a matter of law, a referendum is not a required part of the process of becoming independent.” (McCorkindale and McHarg 2020)
@astonished
an interesting set of dates. let’s look at what you call ‘a mandate’
2014 45% of the votes
2016-no overall majority
2017-37% of the votes
2019 (EU) 38% of the votes
2019 (westminster) 45% of the votes.
nice try, but next time dont just copy a poster, do your homework!
and as for ‘knowing what you’re thinking’: good luck with that!
You can’t argue the success of the SNP so far, they are winning over No voters. As much as I’m a bit concerned that the strategy is not clear, I do trust they know what they’re doing. I wouldn’t change a winning team just because they weren’t scoring fast enough.
Thank you, Mike Cassidy. Nice to know that there are people thinking along similar, logical lines, at least. We can’t base public policy on mental illness and teenage hubris.
Vellofello…
Always struck me as odd that having only been elected in 2015 he ended up with the top job at WM.
NS obviously saw someone who would be unquestionably loyal.
Scotland doesn’t need Sturgeon loyalists who get paid a tidy sum to warm the green benches and repeat meaningless sound-bites in the hope that nobody notices how utterly useless they are at defending our interests.
I’ve absolutely no sympathy for any individual who pockets in the region of 100k of taxpayers money to pretend that they’ll deliver on their promises/assertions, whilst knowing full well that they’re incapable of doing so.
There are several words to describe such individuals. Take your pick…
What exactly is your point Barrie ?
You seem to be defending the useless SNP management by producing pointless stats saying they are just waiting for the right time and they will win with their strategy of doing fk all and attempting to walk the ball over the line ,
Every single suggestion opportunity missed a deer caught in a cars headlights would put up more of a
@Robert Graham
It’s one of the oldest tricks in the false flag book m8: Barrie pretends to be a concerned supporter, while using britnat lines from the Project Fear playbook like trying to equate % of the total electorate with a lack of appetite for indy or an indyref.
@Alf Baird quotes legal opinion.
the trouble is, it’s just that- an opinion.
which would no doubt be subject to endless challenge in the courts. and whose courts?
meanwhile, on the ground, and in the streets? catalonia? this might suit the armchair generals and couch potato streetfighters on wings,but not my idea of fun. or do you expect uk to play fair? and, having said that ‘scotland is demonstrably treated as a mere colony'(p.146) do you really think we will be let go any more gently than uk’s other colonies?
perhaps better to establish an unequivocal unambiguous mandate, and thus international recognition?
More teenage angst…
link to twitter.com
Barrie – the SNP 45% of the available vote. Result nothing.
Conservatives 43% of the available vote . They call all the shots. Especially in Scotland.
I am glad you accept there is no plan for independence from the SNP.
When I was a teenager I guess I would have Self identified as TransDemiMotoBicycle, because the only things I fancied and wanted to ride, and split my time equally between was my BMX and motorbikes.
One for ScottieDog seeing he mentioned BMX the other nicht.
3 minutes of a lad totally fuckin’ humpin’ a BMX.
It’s the modern day ballet don’t ya ken.
link to youtube.com
WhoRattledYourCage @ 8pm
Actually I have thought that there was a connection with body dysphoria and the apparent belief that some young prepubertal girls wish to change sex. We are familiar now with the statistics that show that increasingly more girls than boys present themselves as being ‘in the wrong body’. I think that this is not without significance.
A generation ago, there was much media attention paid to bulimia and eating disorders and it was noticed that these affected more girls than boys. It was from then I remember reading a thoughtful article by a female doctor who had suffered from this condition when younger and had studied this then puzzling phenomenon which had hardly been discussed when she had been a sufferer. Her concern was that the approach to puberty was especially stressful for girls – ignored by a society which merely saw it as a natural rite of passage.
Her contention was that this was not merely to do with physical changes which in themselves were difficult for girls to accommodate but there was also the hidden emotional stress of the adjustment from girlhood to womanhood and the realisation of the demands put on them as adult females, the intense emphasis on body image and attractiveness. Males can argue about this but I think it is obvious that society places greater importance on physical attractiveness in females than males.
She found that while most girls made this difficult transition into female adulthood without too much emotional trauma, for some it was difficult to make this adjustment and working from memories of her own problem, she thought that eating disorders were a a manifestation of a subconscious desire to put off the change to adulthood by literally starving themselves. Loss of weight seemed to preserve the prepubertal body of childhood and the more they lost the plumpness which emphasised the curves of womanliness, the more pleased they were with the effect.
She also saw that it especially seemed to affect intelligent girls who she saw as being at age eleven/twelve, at the top of their game, doing well at school and often agile and assertive. Now they realised with puberty that they were to become part of female society where the rules set for approval were different and irrational and recoiled in horror from the exacting demands made by that society as regards physical appearance. Meeting those demands meant meeting these often absurd criteria of worth. You only have to look at women’s magazines and teenage magazines to see what they are up against.
Starving themselves gave them an illusion of control in this new baffling world where something as arbitrary as good looks could cancel out the attributes that had served them well pre-puberty. All their hard work and ability seemed set as nought against the lottery of life which gifted some with the desirable physical attributes. Starving themselves also had the added benefit of stopping periods which again halted the biological changes which had taken possession of their bodies and were as uncontrollable as the seasons.
I can’t help but see some parallels with body dysphoria which might cause some young girls nowadays to wish to change sex. It also gives an illusory sense of control over biological change over which they might otherwise have no control.
(It has also been suggested that some girls might actually be dealing with feelings of attraction to their own sex and putting off puberty or actually transitioning is their way of dealing with their sexuality. I don’t know enough about this myself to comment but it still does not explain why it happens to more girls than boys.)
Anyway, to return to these earlier cases of eating disorders, it does appear that society does not pay much attention to the difficulties of becoming a woman in our society. It was an essential part of modern feminism to try escape this straitjacket of body image for females, that women were more than a sum of their body parts.
Unfortunately, in that regard the struggle has proved very difficult. Again, you have only to look at the unreal fantasies which are presented to young girls in the media which they consume, to see how difficult it is to fight against the tyranny of body image.
@ barrie gadgie at 9.24pm:
“‘scotland is demonstrably treated as a mere colony'(p.146) do you really think we will be let go any more gently than uk’s other colonies?”
Your argument is utterly fatuous. The former UK colonies which are now independent ARE NOW INDEPENDENT! It’s self-evident that independence is normal regardless of the obstacles that might be put in the way of it by colonial powers.
robert knight: are any of the SNP MPs capable of delivering whatever at Westminster? Are they just seat-warmers in your view, really?SNP MPs are hopelessly outnumbered at Westminster, just what can they achieve in measurable terms? In Scotland via their constituancy office and support team they can and do make a difference locally.
Pre-Covid, and post-Covid, your SNP MP on a Monday morning takes the train, or flies to London. In session, when an SNP MP rises to speak, Tories lbawl and shout, or leave the chamber. When Ian Blackford is given the opportunity to speak, Boris Johnson walks off.
And then, with the day’s business finished, off to a rented flat for the evening. Same routine until Friday, then home to Scotland.Do you fancy that as a day job?Not for me.
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
And as the UKGov strut around feeling chuffed with themselves and their newly acquired Moderna deal, if you believe the UKGov that is, there is this: link to archive.is
Boris is right, devolution has been shit. We want to dump it too.
I’d love them to shut down Holyrood. I’d celebrate.
Vellofello…
Blackford stated (on numerous occasions) “we will not allow Scotland to be dragged out of the European Union against our will.”
I don’t recall anyone holding a gun to his head at any time he uttered those words.
Therefore, given he was not acting under duress, he was either incompetent in asserting, several times, that he could deliver, or he was aware of his limitations but persisted to make the claim irrespective of the reality of the situation.
Either is reprehensible.
Blair, Brown and Boris have been the disaster!
I see the Vow to build a 1 Billion Carbon Capture plant
at Peterhead is in fact being built in Redcar England
How shocked am I that the word of English Political leaders is worthless?
How does their printed and signed Vow compare to Alex Salmond’s
Opinion that an independence referendum might be a once in a
generation opportunity????
Does Johnson have the power to dissolve the Scottish parliament,
i assume with his large majority he has the power.
Quick everybody!
BBC 2 at 23.30- David Jason presents World Cup 1966.
I won’t spoil it for you by telling you the ending but as yourself if
a Russian officiating at the match might bend the rules to get back
at a country that recently killed 26 million. of his countrymen?
velofello says:
16 November, 2020 at 8:50 pm
Ian Blackford:A considerable number of negative comments towards him.
I consider your attitude to Ian Blackford niaive at the very least.
Troubles in SNP at the moment: I consider Blackford to be one of the main stirrers.
He failed to become elected early in his career and managed to win convincingly when faced with the ailing and soon-to-die Charles Kennedy.
He has a history of disliking Mr Salmond
His main interest is money – this is a simple run-down on the man:
link to melkelly60.wixsite.com
The sum given to Blackford from Golden Charter Trust is well-underestimated in the link.
Blackford receives £3193 per month (£38,316.00 per annum) for 32 HOURS a year. The rest of his money dealings are in the link.
A policeman, Brian Smith, was sacked by the SNP after Blackford had won the election for bullying Kennedy, after the latter had revealed that Blackford had received money from a Tory donor (Craigens)
I don’t think Blackford’s a ‘decent guy’ (I think he is the personification of Holy Willie only more dangerous and nasty) and added to that he can’t hold an oratory candle to Ms Cherry, Dr Whitford Mr Salmond OR Alyn Smith(whose opinions on many subjects I can’t stand).
……………
FINALLY, here are the antepenultimate and penultimate paragraphs written 5th November 2020 by Blackford as Chairman of ‘Golden Charter Trust:
The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic including the ‘lockdown’ measures introduced by the government led to a reduction in cash coming into the Trust from the sales of pre-paid funeral plans. In the same period there was an increase in the level of maturity payments to funeral directors due to the excess deaths primarily arising from the pandemic. However, this is expected to be a temporary position and there are positive signs that income from funeral plan sales is returning to expected levels.
I believe the Trust is well placed to meet the challenges that lie ahead. The trustees of the Trust are high calibre individuals with a broad mix of skills and experience. We remain committed to safeguarding the assets of the Trust for the long-term benefit of plan-holders and funeral directors who are the beneficiaries of the Trust.
barrie gadgie
Does anybody seriously expect the Tories to respect a referendum Yes vote, assuming it happens after they and others have got up to all their usual tricks to prevent it? And even if they did respect the result, what do you think Westminster would put into an ‘Independent Scotland Act’, what do you think a Tory-designed independent Scotland might look like (take your time), as defined by almost 600 MP’s from what would be foreign nations, and their House of Lords?
Scotland must take the lawful treaty exit route because a) it is lawful and b) because a referendum always leaves Scotland powerless. No matter the route, there is only one form of indy with this lot – hard. Blackford’s 48 might as well get the withdrawal notice over with by Brexit date, perhaps pending a ratification election next May. That would give courts some time to ponder the matter, assuming anyone is daft enough to question the existence of a treaty and Scottish sovereignty, and who holds that sovereignty.
barrie gadgie
And that’s assuming we ever see a S.30…..
Keep bangin’ on you lot, almost there….DRoss for First Minister. Yaay!
barrie gadgie
International recognition?
If the process of Scotland’s UK union alliance withdrawal is deemed lawful, international recognition will inevitably follow.
barrie gadgie says:
16 November, 2020 at 9:24 pm
“@Alf Baird quotes legal opinion.
the trouble is, it’s just that- an opinion.
which would no doubt be subject to endless challenge in the courts. and whose courts?”
As the union was instituted by Scotland and England (and dependances), both sovereign countries, it would be an International Court.
i.e. No mucking about with “Supreme” Courts in England.
Blackford?????? He is yet another MP/MSP who is part of the problem and not the solution. They can no longer hide behind covid 19 as they have been doing with a vaccine or two on the way. Sturgeons time is just about up methinks and riddance to her.
Chris McEleny indicates Joanna Cherry proposal has been blocked
link to twitter.com
A humble little man with a lot to be humble about
maureen says:
17 November, 2020 at 1:41 am
Chris McEleny indicates Joanna Cherry proposal has been blocked
link to twitter.com
Kinda confirms SNP is set on self destruct mode.
Wonder who it is lacing the punch bowl with mind altering substances.
I didn’t see it, but apparently Dispatches on Channel 4 has run a documentary which is withering in it’s criticism of Tory corruption related to COVID.
How I wish they’d do a documentary on the rotten SNP.
What an absolute festival of incompetence and corruption UK politics currently is. So many snouts in so many troughs, and the good people utterly bewildered how to stop it.
In my best M&S voice, “This isn’t corruption, this is layer, upon layer, upon layer of endemic corruption, like a black star shining darkness in every direction”.
It’s like we had a brief glimpse of daylight back in 2014, but the skies have been darkening every day since, and the daylight hours have got shorter and shorter, until here we are in the perpetual darkness of full blown Mordor.
Last time of asking Joanna Cherry, please, ditch the rancid SNP and lead Scotland in a Constitutional challenge of our unlawful subjugation, or go down with them. It wouldn’t be an admission of failure, it would be doing the right thing for Scotland. To keep fighting for the soul of the SNP now seems as forlorn and wasteful an endeavour as the SNP trying to save England from Brexit. It’s too late. The madness has taken them.
Save ourselves. Save the nation of Scotland.
Barrhead Boy’s Window of Opportunity, link to barrheadboy.com is a must-read.
All eyes and ears will be on November 30th and the First Minister’s speech. By then we’ll know if we’re saved or screwed. After that there will be a lot of work to do – clearing the path or clearing the decks. I sincerely hope it’s the former.
My eyes won’t be on Sturgeon’s speech as I can already tell you what it will say. Self-congratulatory crap about her (abysmal) handling of covid, a dollop of hot air about the power grab with no plan to counter it, comment on American politics because obviously the internal affairs of a wackjob country across the ocean should be the first priority of a Scottish politician, and statements in favour of “equality”, or as you or I might call it “denying science, empowering predators and censoring dissent”.
Orwell double sleek from the Tory Mafia this morning.
Take note: When Boris states that Devolution is a Disaster
It now means he has always been a great supporter of it.
Absolutely sick to death on this once in a generation nonsense
Being repeated over and over and over in the UK media.
It is a comment that it may have been the case but many more times
he made clear that the people of Scotland are sovereign and will make
their own choices in their own time.
This throw away comment doesn’t appear on any legislation, isn’t part of
Our constitution, hasn’t passed any bill in parliament.
What it is – Pathetic! Is that the best they have.
Where is SNP to rhyme off all the aspects of the Vow that was signed on
Paper by all their leaders and of which every aspect was broken.
The Vow promised we would have the worlds most powerful parliament
It appears to be so powerful we can do nothing as all our powers are stripped away.
Peterhead Carbon capture plant promised is being built in Redcar England
Major wind renewables investment promised for Scotland has gone to an off shore wind farm in
English waters.
The 13 major ships order to be placed early to save jobs became bits of boats given late and jobs lost.
The First action promised to give more powers became EVEL, that removed a power from our MPs
How about the We Love You? Yes that would be why we are the only country in the EU who had no say in any dealings at any time about our relations with Europe.
Nicola, Swinney, Whishy please feel free to use these facts the very next time anyone in the UK asks you anything about anything.
Kill off this generation crap with all guns blazing !
Stuart MacKay says:
17 November, 2020 at 7:31 am
…All eyes and ears will be on November 30th and the First Minister’s speech. By then we’ll know if we’re saved or screwed.
Aye… maybe. But Sturgeon’s reaction to Boris was to “bookmark” his remarks. You have to laugh or you’d cry. “Bookmarked”. Oh the humanity!
I bet Boris is quaking in his boots. Just like Theresa May quaked in her boots when Sturgeon telegraphed there’d be no IndyRef or Constitutional challenge to disrupt her Brexit negotiations until they were all finished.
Outmanouvred by Boris Johnson AND Theresa May? Can’t be many in that club besides “oor Nikla”. Can you imagine her negotiating a Transition Treaty for Scotland ending the UK Union?
I can’t follow this hopeless coward into battle however good her November address might be. Look what she has done to us. Look at Scotland’s sovereignty.
She has to go.
The only thing I want to hear from Sturgeon is that she’s stepping down.
Johnson’s “outburst” is most probably about one of two things (and maybe both):
1) a hissy fit over EU deal difficulties, although we will see whether anything stops him doing as he wishes with Scottish resources anyway (he might pretend Scotland is one reason he “couldn’t get a deal” and that it was “all the Nats’ fault”). This is not being made plain yet by the media if it is going to be one of the things he hits out with.
2) Given Jenrick’s (think it was him) remarks that Johnson wasn’t getting at devolution, but at the “rise of nationalism and separatism in the person of Nicola Sturgeon”, the comments might well be an attempt to hold her in place by making out she’s the big threat, the real champion of Indy (and later, as per point 1, the thorn in his side over Brexit).
If she was a big threat to him, they could just go into ultra-smear mode as they usually do. I’m sure they could find something to “attack” her about….
Wilderness Walker @9:01 pm
I wouldn’t change a winning team just because they weren’t scoring fast enough.
I don’t think anybody, other than indirectly in the recent Scot Goes Pop poll, has asked the question of “Previously No, Now Yes” voters on who was the greatest influence in their decision: a) Nicola Sturgeon or b) Dithering Boris.
However with the evidence so far, the winning team for independence appears to be the Conservative and Unionist Party. It can’t be the Scottish Government – a team that has missed many open goals; one that has passed the ball to the opposition or tripped over their own feet so many times it’s hard to believe.
O/t freddy McConnell a 34 year old transgender has lost his battle in the supreme court to be registered as his childs father. sanity starting to prevail? Are you watching nicola.
Breeks,
Everybody think that Nicola is aiming for a plum job and a big desk at the UN. But the evidence is clear. “Bookmarked” is a dead giveaway. She want’s to replace Oprah Winfrey and become First Lady of the World.
All the benefits, like Baby Boxes, etc. are just dry runs for Nicola’s Big Giveaway though I doubt she’ll have the chutzpah to arrange cars for everyone, link to archive.is
OT anyone know anything about the bomb in Edinburgh sorting office allegedly addressed to the First Minister?
Sorry if it has been mentioned before but couldn’t be arsed dredging through the comments.
Deerhill 11.40pm. ‘ ie.no mucking about with ‘supreme ‘courts in England ‘ the supreme court in England is England’s 12th man on the pitch. Let’s kick these fookers into touch and refuse to recognise them.
The ‘supreme’ court is an ENGLISH court.
Is Nicola Sturgeon the Oli McBurnie of Scottish politics?
I fear, with her in-charge, we will not be boogying in 2021, or indeed in any year soon.
Boris has fired the opening salvo to get Holyrood shut.
“Devolution has been a disaster” Robert Jenrick confirms and states this is no time for a divisive referendum. The UK he states “Should be run as one ”
What now Nicola? The enemy are at the gate.
The famous fable doesn’t tell us what happened to ‘the boy who cried wolf’ after he was found out… maybe he cleaned up his act, devoted himself to God and the truth, and lived happily ever after.
Maybe he got into crack cocaine and branched out — why limit yourself to wolves?
So, we give the little bastard another chance and leave him to keep an eye on the flock again. Hours pass and we don’t hear a thing, no alarm bell or shouting, nothing. Reassured that he’s sorted himself out, we all go back to sleep.
Or do we? For all we know he’s down there butchering the sheep and helping the wolf fill a truck. Anything’s possible with a little bastard like that…
Trust. When it’s gone, it’s gone.
It doesn’t really matter what Sturgeon says on the 30th.
@Dorothy Devine,
Only heard this morning. I wouldn’t be surprised as Nicola has had her security team needed up since death threats in 2017. She has police escorts at all times.
It is perhaps a sign the more extreme elements of Unionism are becoming very worried, not necessarily by Nicola but also by the opportunities being handed to her on a plate by Boris Johnson. They see the cracks in the Union as becoming major fissures.
Fascism inclined Tories in London now talking like Madrid and trying to promote the notion that Scots have no constitutional right to secede. Meanwhile the SNP has become a cult and members are expected to make no criticism and kiss the leader’s arse.
I also wonder if this is a nice little setup to allow Nicola to say “the next election can’t be about independence, we need to protect devolution from the Tories first! Vote SNP to keep
the current level of devolution!”. Oh dear me, haha.
A mad mental unionist I keep working on sent me a link
to the Sun where the story promotes £2.7 million spent
By Scot Gov on mobile phones for every prisoner?
I guess it has to be done our we pay legal cost for them
and an international human rights later gets them all heft
Compensation packages on top.
Strangely Tory MSPs secretly warned the government about all this costing us.
All stories now have “ and a Tory politician seen all this coming” crap tagged on?
Dorothy Devine 8.50
This is The National’s report on the suspect package
link to archive.is
Mike d 8.30
Freddy Mconnell just isn’t that keen on the whole maternity thing
link to twitter.com
Not content with stealing our oil, it wont be long now till the ‘super highway ‘ of underwater power cables are laid from selby and hawthorn point in the north of England to peterhead and torness, by Scottish power, national grid, and sse. To supply electricity to English homes. I suppose the water will be next. That old pooling and sharing eh, we pool it and they share it. Wha’s like us.thank fook my niece and nephew had the sense to emigrate to Australia.
When you read all this stuff about Boris Johnson believing devolution has been a disaster for Scotland; then add-on the Internal Markets Bill – it is surely obvious, with such a man at the top, the Tories will NEVER agree to a Section 30 order.
Even if he goes, and with Dominic Cummings thrown under the bus, this is no longer the option it seemed last week, I doubt if anyone inside the Tory Party will agree to an S.30.
So, why is the SNP still going down that road, surely it is time to take another route?
@Stuart MacKay says:
17 November, 2020 at 8:31 am
“Everybody think that Nicola is aiming for a plum job and a big desk at the UN. But the evidence is clear. “Bookmarked” is a dead giveaway. She want’s to replace Oprah Winfrey and become First Lady of the World.”
Looked what has happened to Ellen. Sugar and spice and all things nice in front of the camera…
Maybe she could get a slot on RT 🙂
Gotta admit I’m split down the middle over Holyrood.
If it was truly Scotland’s Parliament and prepared to defend Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution from colonial insurrection, then I’d be the first man on the barricades to protect it.
But if, as it’s proving to be, Holyrood is no more than a super-committee which swears fealty and subservience to the Westminster faux convention on Westminster’s Parliamentary sovereignty, then we should try to get our impeachment proceedings started before Boris does it for us. And can we stop calling it a Scottish Government please?
If you want the accolade and kudos of being Scotland’s Government, it comes with a price tag, and you need to get off your knees and actually defend Scotland’s interests.
Scotland is a sovereign Nation. Scotland’s Government should fking act like it.
Mike Cassidy 10.01am. I see freddy’s getting ‘telt’ on Twitter where to go.
With well over 100 SNP MPs and MSPs and over 400 councillors, it seems a very quiet when so much is happening – on the Unionist side that is.
In light of Ian Blackford’s claims on when a indyref will be held, Angus B. MacNeil has written to Boris Johnson asking if he’ll grant a S30 order for Holyrood to hold a indyref.
FM Nicola Sturgeon has said she will publish a referendum bill in the current Holyrood term, setting out the timing and question for a new indyref vote.
I suppose we should all try to remain positive for now at least.
Listening to Call Kaye for the first time in years… It’s interesting to hear what ordinary people are saying about covid-19. Actually, the only evidence we can rely on now is the anecdotal stuff, the official stuff is all spin, institutionalised dishonesty.
And the picture is truly bleak in Glasgow. Apparently it’s rife in the hospitals too.
The good news is that people are starting to grasp the importance of schools as disease distribution systems.
The Scottish government tell us there’s no evidence of the disease spreading in and through schools. That’s probably true.
Most kids who get it don’t even know, they take it home and spread it without a clue. When their parents and family get it, as is inevitable, it’s not attributed to school – they blame young people, people not sticking to the rules, hospitality, etc.
The tier system, all the partial lockdown measures before it, all the briefings and talking, most of the data too, it’s all crap. None of it has stopped the virus spreading like wildfire. We’ve been let down badly.
Who broke this devolution disaster look-a-squirrel ‘news’?
Chris Musson?
Anything else going on today in Scotland? Hmm?
Stuttering Lord Advocate for example?
Harassment Inquiry…10 minutes in and the Lord Advocate has parked the bus. Sweet pass to Swinney to punt the legal advice over the stand. This committee is a toothless wonder. 14 meetings later. The will of the Parliament means nothing. The mechanisms and power structures for the committee and Parliament to achieve anything do not exist. This is a waste of time. I am off to do some Christmas shopping.
Power lies at Westminster under devolution. It always has. It always will. The only difference now is the Tories have stopped pretending that devolution allows the people of Scotland to rule their own country.
I would celebrate the Tories killing off devolution completely. I hope they do it.
I would celebrate the closure of Holyrood.
I would rejoice at the SNP, Tories, Labour, LibDem and Green colonial administrator MSPs losing their cushy jobs.
The MSPs failed to defend Scottish sovereignty. Why should anyone in Scotland try to defend these colonial administrators who sat on their backsides while Scotland’s sovereign people have been dragged out of the EU and the promises of home rule broken.
Sturgeon an unemployed ex-MSP, ex-FM. Sounds good to me.
Bitter words, aye. I make no apologies for that. Sometimes bitterness is appropriate.
Is it true that the Commom Weal/Cherry motion to conference has been rejected?
Harassment Inquiry. Lord Advocate can’t say nuthink. Convention, innit.
Oh, but he sees absolutely no conflict of interest between his roles.
Infuriating.
“A new Plan B to achieve independence – backed by Joanna Cherry – has been rejected for debate at the SNP’s conference later this month, The National can reveal.”
Hmmm…This isn’t good, rejecting options when Johnson refuses to grant a S30 is in effect painting yourself into a corner. Unless of course there’s another plan of action waiting on the sidelines, that Blackford and Sturgeon already know about.
link to thenational.scot
Colin Alexander – you’re a Tory, so?
Lord Advocate taking hand-sanitizing to new levels. Does he have a Pilate licence?
@Scots Renewables,
Simple answer Yes. It has been blocked.
barrie gadgie
“meanwhile, on the ground, and in the streets? catalonia? this might suit the armchair generals and couch potato streetfighters on wings,but not my idea of fun. or do you expect uk to play fair? and, having said that ‘scotland is demonstrably treated as a mere colony'(p.146) do you really think we will be let go any more gently than uk’s other colonies?”
An extensive post colonial literature (which I see you study) tells us exactly the process and likely events and outcomes. Like other oppressed nations the Scots elect Nationalist politicians to bring an end to our colonial oppression in all its forms and to liberate the people; this is what independence is about. Nobody promised that would be easy, nor that it was merely a lucrative career opportunity for pseudo nationalists such as we have in the SNP.
If Scotland’s Nationalist politicians are not up to the task entrusted to them by the people and if they had no conception of what it actually involves then they should never have sought to represent the people and their cause in the first place.
Two stories in The National this morning,
link to thenational.scot
link to thenational.scot
Will there be anything left by Christmas, let alone May?
I think Johnson’s opened his mouth about Scotland this morning to give Nicola a hand with the Salmond enquiry: it’s called misdirection. Sturgeon can’t use that tactic any longer, we all know where she’s not headed, and Johnson has only ever had a direction up his own arse anyway. So his irrelevant chit chat and Sturgeon’s (et al) use of the remark are of total irrelevance.
Thanks Bob.
While I don’t see any other way forward,it does not look as though the SNP are going to take the shot at an open goal.
Not giving my vote to anyone else just yet, but I can’t see me renewing my membership.
What exactly is wrong with these people? The Scottish people obviously support independence, the SNP allegedly have that as their main raison d’etre
Defending devolution is not their job, the other Scottish parties can deal with that. The SNP’s job is to make sure Westminster can’t ever threaten Scotland again.
Conference is their last chance, and it is looking like they will blow it.
@Scots Renewables,
I know your frustration. It seems the SNP are stuck on railway tracks rather than being flexible. They have rejected a reasonable proposal in favour of maintaining their status quo.
It’s stuff of heartache really.
link to twitter.com
Mike d
In an independent Scotland we will charge them for the water and electricity exported to England.
Just normal trade.
SNP conference: Joanna Cherry-backed Plan B rejected for debate
A NEW Plan B to achieve independence – backed by Joanna Cherry – has been rejected for debate at the SNP’s conference later this month, The National can reveal.
The amendment was lodged after a resolution put forward by Angus MacNeil and Chris McEleny was knocked back for the event sparking fury among its supporters.
It will mean there will be no vote on an alternative way forward should Boris Johnson continue to reject a request for powers to be transferred to Holyrood to hold a referendum agreed by the UK and Scottish governments.
The new Plan B had called for the SNP to set up a working group to consider all democratic and legitimate routes to independence and make recommendations on party strategy.
The idea was first suggested by Cherry, the Edinburgh South West MP, who had called for the SNP to “set up a group to work on gaming a copper-bottomed strategy, the details of which need not be advertised to the enemy.”
It was submitted to the party’s conference organisers by the Common Weal Group (CWG), a grouping on the left of the party, who were hopeful that it would be included it the event’s agenda.
However, a copy of the final agenda for the SNP conference has been obtained by The National and the amendment has not been included.
Instead, the resolution on independence backs the proposal – set out in the earlier draft of the document – of setting up a National Assembly to discuss a way forward should the UK Government continue to refuse a Section 30 order request to hand over powers to Holyrood to hold a new vote. The National Assembly forum has no authority.
“Conference welcomes the announcement of a National Assembly on independence to discuss tactics and strategy for campaigning. National Assembly will initiate a discussion on alternative routes to a legal referendum should the Westminster Government continue to resist the wishes of the people of Scotland for another referendum,” it says.
The latest development will disappoint some party members who have seen support for independence grow to a record level of 58% but feel their goal has been frustrated and a No-Deal Brexit looms in less than six weeks.
Normally resolutions are put forward naming their proposer – eg a branch or group within the party – with amendments lodged with the names of their backers ahead of the event.
However, no names have been published referring to either the resolutions or amendments raising questions over what format the conference, which is being held remotely, will take.
“Party members already knew that a debate was being blocked on the McEleny/MacNeil independence Plan B strategy to counter Boris Johnson’s stubbornly high level opposition to a referendum, but there was hope that the proposals backed by Joanna Cherry would at least make the final cut,” said one party insider.
“Instead we are left with an agenda that doesn’t propose a single policy. This is not the agenda of a leadership that seriously wants a referendum next year. If it was it would be setting out our position on pensions, currency, a post coronavirus economy, and all the many other areas people want to have clarity on to back independence.
“Policy proposals, that secured popular support of SNP branches across Scotland, have simply been ignored.”
The draft resolution submitted by MacNeil and McEleny proposed seeking a Section 30 order, but stated that if this was rejected by the UK Government then Scottish ministers should seek a legal challenge to establish if Holyrood could stage a referendum without the UK Government’s agreement.
Should this second step prove unsuccessful, their proposed motion argued that the May 2021 elections should be a de-facto referendum on independence.
MacNeil and McEleny claimed the decision to block their resolution would not be popular among activists who have seen support for independence grow to a record level of 58% but feel their goal has been frustrated and a No-Deal Brexit looms.
“It has been almost four-and-a-half years since the Brexit vote and face facts, the cupboard is bare,” said MacNeil when his proposal was knocked back.
SNP critics of the former Plan B argue the strategy of holding out for a Section 30 order is working with support for independence at record levels. They contend if the PM is not going to grant a Section 30 he is unlikely to enter independence talks.
Responding to Johnson’s comments last night that “devolution had been a disaster” MacNeil tweeted that holding such a view made it unlikely that Johnson would agree to a Section 30 order.
He wrote: “And to think it was the plan of some to wait until after the May Election to find this out and leave Scotland flapping in the wind. Plan A only zealots need to wisen up fast!”
The online conference takes place from November 28 to 30.
The SNP has been approached for a comment.
Previously the party has said: “Effective leadership during the global pandemic is proving a real boost to support for an independent Scotland. Next month’s SNP conference will focus on what’s important to the people of Scotland, and independence will very much be at the heart of debate.”
Holymacmoses…
Totally agree.
Boris being primed to let loose a (oh look…) squirrel with perfect timing to divert attention away from the Salmond enquiry and back to Westminster.
All those taking aim at Sturgeon and the ScotGov’s (in)action will now automatically swing their guns back in the direction of No10.
Sturgeon straight back to the caped crusader mode, defending Scotland from that nasty, Tory PM. The faithful will rally to her side. You couldn’t make it up!
Those saying any device intercepted at a sorting office will be the work of “Extreme Unionists” should beware as the playbook used by the British State, in all its various guises, is just as likely to attribute such to “Extreme Nationalists” – which all malcontents posting here will be labelled.
Committee members doing what they can to get answers from Wolffe, esp regarding the legal advice.
He keeps citing ‘privilege’ as the reason for refusing disclosure, in line with Swinney’s stalling letter of last week. Several members have raised the three exceptions i.e. the ‘trams’, ‘infected blood’ and ‘child abuse’ inquiries.
They could hardly be more disparate subjects, so what did they have in common which justified such extraordinary disclosure of the legal advice?
Isn’t that an obvious question to ask?
My opinion of Jackie Baillie is completely transformed. She’s played a blinder during this inquiry.
Jackie Baillie is really very good at this questioning business.
Unfortunately the Lord Advocate is an Olympic-level champion at avoiding answers.
I wonder if they’ll show student lawyers, Wolfe’s performance today as an example of how not to answer questions
Colin Alexander 10.44am. Maybe, just maybe the closure of holyrood would be the damascene moment that would shake scots out of their fookin lethargy and make them take to the streets in their hundreds upon hundreds of thousands. But i wont hold my breath.
Breeks 10.21am.
Exactly. You don’t let another nation tell you what status your nation should have.
Who remembers all the Tories wanting out of the EU as they
Claim other nations were interfering in some aspects of their sovereignty?
Tell why Scotland would like the corrupt Tory bastards of Westminster that we
Never voted for taking total control of our sovereignty ?
Holymacmoses, you’re right about the misdirection. They’re on the same side as far as keeping the Scottish rabble in line is concerned.
Bob Mack says:
17 November, 2020 at 11:19 am
@Scots Renewables,
I know your frustration. It seems the SNP are stuck on railway tracks rather than being flexible. They have rejected a reasonable proposal in favour of maintaining their status quo.
It’s stuff of heartache really.
Hopefully after the May election some disillusioned SNP MSPs will cross the chamber to another pro-indy party. ISP etc are not going to make any significant inroads unless they take some big SNP names with them, and my bet is that this is how it will happen.
In the meantime, I still don’t see another realistic home for my vote. The concerns discussed at length on here are increasingly being muttered quietly in much less controversial places, but public awareness remains almost zero.
An SNP majority in May is IMO still necessary, if not to give them one last chance then to remove their last excuse and to expose the leadership for what they are.
Ever get the feeling that the Conference will be a strictly controlled affair (with suitable social distancing of course)?
Party political conferences should allow proper debate. It would allow the public to see democracy in action.
Nothing like a few “rebels” to make the leadership squirm, although “rebel” is an unfair term. Democrat would be a better word.
Nicola Sturgeon has more mandates than King Robert the Bruce had schiltrons at Bannockburn.
@ Effijy at 9.51
If your unionist is still banging on about phones:
link to twitter.com
-Holymacmoses, Robert Knight-
Came on here to say exactly the same thing. Tinfoil hat time for us obviously!
@Hatuey, 10.37
We’ve been let down badly
Agree. SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus which is now endemic. That means it is going to circulate in the winter respiratory virus season along with the other coronaviruses, rhinoviruses, influenza viruses. The test which is being used cannot differentiate between viruses nor can it differentiate between infectious and non-infectious sections of virus. In addition, the amplification cycle of 40 generates a huge number of false positives. Why continue to use a faulty test during the winter respiratory virus season? It generates revenue for the companies which make the tests and which process the results? It generates sufficient fear to distract the public from the looting of the public purse?
ScotsRenewables @ 12.33pm
Once last chance for what? They’ve already squandered their last chance and lost all credibility:
2016 manifesto – we will call a referendum if we’re taken out of Europe against our will. Check – squandered.
2019 manifesto – we will demand a transfer of power to ensure the decisions about the referendum can be taken by the Scottish Parliament (lame words) but ultimately squandered too.
2021 manifesto – we will seeks a S30 transfer of power yada yada yada…more of the same. Rinse and repeat.
One things we can all agree on about Salmond – he promised a referendum, he delivered a referendum.
In the words of one of George Bush’s famous ‘Bushisms’ – (now somewhat accurate) ‘You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones we want to concentrate on’!!!!!
Scozzie, Salmond had an overall majority. Big difference.
Has anyone noticed that the Sun newspaper has grown hostile to Sturgeon? Not something I usually read but got wrong paper delivered twice this week (!) and I thought it was quite hostile.
2014 45% of the votes
2016-no overall majority
2017-37% of the votes
2019 (EU) 38% of the votes
2019 (westminster) 45% of the votes
There has been no ‘cast iron’ mandate since 2011
This time there is a chance of an overall majority and over 50% of the votes cast. No wriggle room for either side then.
Then if no progress we tear the whole thing down. But what tearing it down now, 6 months earlier, will achieve escapes me.
Warning Warning
Incoming Bullshit from South of the Border
Looks like the Jocks are getting Airtime on TV and Radio Stations as the English media has just noticed a little disgruntled audience in its northern border the Jocks are revolting .
Same Shit Different Day
The shit they have been shovelling won’t work twice so what’s new Bawjaws anything new ?
Failure to game plan, or even discuss, contingency plans in the event of no reply, or indeed, a ‘no’ reply to a S30 request – is a dereliction of duty.
Failure to do so at constituency and conference level (lest you give away your plans to the enemy) is just stupid. The enemy will have spent millions going over all the possible options and how to counteract them. The only way the contingency plans will work is if sufficient numbers of SNP and Yes supporters know what they are and what they will need to do, and can mobilise fast.
The voters in Scotland MUST be given the chance to vote for candidates who stand on it being a plebiscite Indy election. To not have that option means we lose Devolution, and once that is gone Scotland is truly fucked.
Imagine being repeatedly beaten up by someone, and people keep saying, go to the Police, get it stopped. ‘Not yet, not this time, soon’, you say.
But then the beater up says, ‘I really hate you, so much, that by the end of the year, I’m going to buy a gun and kill you. Look, I’ve place an order, here’s the confirmation of when its being delivered.’
And your response, ‘if it comes to that, that will be a step too far, at that point, once you shoot me, and I’m dead, I’ll go to the Police.’
That’s how bloody stupid it is. I want full Independence for my country, but under the SNP’s current policy and leadership, I’m away to lose Devolution, and European membership. And with umpteen Mandates under their belt, the SNP have meekly capitulated.
Two face, mealymoothed, spineless, treacherous, thieving, corrupt, wee surrender monkeys. And it really is not good enough anymore for those with good hearts to keep propping them up.
They are not even selling us out, they are handing Scotland over on a solid gold plate, and telling them to keep the plate as well. And we, the greater Yes Movement, are letting them do it.
SHAME.
And where is Robert Peffers – what happened to the line, ‘if you have a problem with SNP policy don’t air it in public, change it from within.’ How is that working out Robert? As they gerrymander on the NEC, remove discussions from conference ABOUT WAYS TO GET INDY, as they utilise/embezzle 1/2million£ of Yes movement money to pay off their overdraft, as they carry out ‘unlawful, tainted by biased’ procedures to frame an innocent man? As they push thought crime laws that have been slated by everyone from the Police, to the judges, to Human rights, and push forward on GRA laws that are so poorly thought out, they will be a perverts charter – and an utter vote loser across the political divide, so utterly bonkers are they.
YOU WERE WARNED. ALL THE DANGER SIGNALS WERE PICKED UP ON AND YOU WERE WARNED – NEW LABOUR ALL OVER AGAIN.
SHAME.
-SR-
I’ll pose the million-dollar question to you again. If the SNP win a majority of votes and thereby attain the cast-iron mandate to which you refer, and then ask Johnson for a referendum, why would he consent to said referendum? And if he refuses it, what will happen then?
‘ScotsRenewables says:
17 November, 2020 at 1:12 pm
2014 45% of the votes
2016-no overall majority
2017-37% of the votes
2019 (EU) 38% of the votes
2019 (westminster) 45% of the votes
There has been no ‘cast iron’ mandate since 2011’
Dear Scot – in an election where you win SEATS, then winning SEATS is what you count, by the legal set methods prescribed, not vote percentages. In a Referendum it is different.
56 out of 59 in the 2015 GE was most emphatically A MANDATE. And I could go through them one by one, but honestly you’re not worth it.
SHAME.
-Daisy-
I strongly recommend you stand for office, you are a hell of a communicator, your contributions are always well worth reading.
A Person says:
17 November, 2020 at 1:29 pm
-Daisy-
I strongly recommend you stand for office, you are a hell of a communicator, your contributions are always well worth reading
Seconded
Daisy,
Please have the decency to think before you make personal attacks. You may be a ‘helluva communicator’ but you need to tone down the hostility.
I am not talking about what legally or morally may constitute a mandate, I am talking about public perception.
And in politics I am afraid that is what counts, not a bunch of people getting angry on a politics forum.
ScotsRenewables @ 1.06pm and 1.12pm
That’s a bullshit argument.
There is already pro-independence parties in HR. HR have already voted that it’s the right of the Scottish Parliament to call a referendum.
As for relaying election voting percentages as an argument against calling a referendum…winning governments are able to put in place their manifesto pledges, pure and simple.
Are you suggesting the Tories are unable to drive through their manifesto pledge on Brexit and other crushing destructive policies because they didn’t get 50+% of the vote? Bullshit. Winner takes all – that is the system.
SNP have been in government since 2007 – if they wanted it they’d do it.
The whole point of putting the vote to the people is based on their manifesto pledge – it’s only at the referendum / or an independence plebiscite election that we need 50+%.
Problem is the SNP don’t want to give the people their sovereignty and make the decisive call to allow that to happen. They just want 5 more years of power.
I assume you’re a SNP member – how much delay are you willing to endure?
Would I trust having a referendum with the ok and consent of Westminster. With the likes of John major trying to imply how the referendum question should be done and perhaps in two parts.
I asked myself if we do a referendum like Westminster’s tories or labour suggest. That would be England’s referendum not Scotland’s. Again England’s plan and England’s negotiation ideas, all puts paid to it being a Scottish referendum doesn’t it?
England’s Westminster telling [us when] we can have a referendum, Under [what conditions ]we can have a referendum! England’s Westminster suggesting negotiation terms for Scotland from England. Etc.
That would England’s referendum then. Not Scotland’s. It would be like 2014 when England interfered, the votes were not even counted here, they travelled miles, reports of some votes going missing, voter fraud, the lying Vow, interfering news media, Purdah, opening ballots beforehand, when the Scottish people aren’t watching. With a sudden rise in people coming for a holiday in Scotland, and dead people voting.
And would england insist that we use their civil digital voting system, and postal ballots, like in America.
NOT on your live,
Good Old fashioned secure paper ballots counted and accounted for the old fashioned way on site, overseen by all Scots in person observers, and perhaps a representative from a selection of other countries.
We were naive the fist time around,
So naive that our Scottish referendum was hijacked by England, and it is not theirs to call.
The question on the ballot is ours , not England’s
BBC News headlines
Devolution Row !
Aint no problem with me I just want to sever the chain round our necks that is held by the English establishment
So whats the problem they say we cost them money so when we want to help them out they say NO Christ you cant please some folk eh
WHY DO BBC SCOTLAND INTERVIEW SO MANY ENGLISH FUCKIN FURRINERS FOR THEIR NEWS BULLETINS???
@ A Person
No, I do not think the current government at Westminster will ever concede an S30 order.
As to what happens when it is refused after an overwhelming mandate in Nay 2021 Well…
Either there will be an immediate switch to a pre-prepared and viable Plan B or the SNP will tear itself apart.
5 more years of the same will not be an option.
yer playing a blinder Daisey get right into them well done.
x x x
@Scozzie
Re. Delay – prepared to wait 6 months, no more, no less. We are in the end game, either for the Union or for the SNP.
A. Person,
If Boris says no to a S30 again, he better watch out as the SNP might get more aggressive and ask again when he’s not expecting it.
DRoss tells us Scotland has the worst this and the worst that under the SNP government.
Why is there no SNP rep screaming at that prick that it is all happening while we are still members of the UK, where we have to beg for every fuckin penny from the London government just to survive.
Start fighting back against these Unionist bastards.
The only thing that would make me jump ship before May is if the SNP starts to rip itself apart and some big names commit to another pro-indy party.
Well what a surprise tha Johnson thinks devolution isn’t working, this from the man who lauded a poem about exterminating Scots. Of course the British Nationalist parties are blaming each other for devolution, Blair’s name has cropped up a few times.
That sage of man George Robertson, or should I call him Baron Robertson of Port Ellen, also claimed that devolution would kill Scottish nationalism stone dead. Robertson in his wisdom also claims that Scottish independence would cause the Balkanisation of Western Europe.
These statements alone should’ve had Sturgeon declaring UDI years ago. Make no mistake Westminster is an enemy of Scotland from the McCrone report to the stealing of 6000 square miles of Scottish waters to incorporate oil wells, to the Vow, the dragging us out of the EU and beyond, and the coming rolling back of devolution via the Internal Market bill, Westminster cares not for Scotland in this onesided unfit for purpose union.
Dear god, imagine being a stenographer who had to write down what Leslie Evans was saying verbatim, and at the same time turn it into cogent sentences.
James Wolffe isn’t much better, but for altogether different reasons.
I bet everyone here could write the Script of what’s likely to be pushed at us about Devolution ,
it’s going to be fun watching a Tory any Tory defend Devolution after all they fought tooth and nail against it and most of their MSPs don’t actually recognise it but are happy to take the benefits and money ,
as is their grandparents ,their kids are , Free Prescriptions anyone ? , no bridge or Motorway Tolls and all the other wee goodies provided by a government they would have to be Tortured in order to vote for even then it would be a toss up .
Trust a Tory
I wouldn’t piss on any of them Duckers
How long can McAskill, MacLeod and Cherry put up with this dereliction of purpose?
They are trying to move on and are constantly halted by SNP HQ. They at least prove we have those to whom Independence is an increasingly urgent concern, for very sound reasons.
Supporting Nicola Sturgeon allows her to block the door to Independence indefinitely and restricts the options available to us to achieve that goal . That much is clear. She is not a leader who can use situations to our advantage.
Grim !!!
Scots Renewables @ 1.49pm
No it’s not a 6 months delay – that is where the SNP supporters are completely blindsighted. All it is blind voting to give them 5 more years of power to do hee-haw.
If they want the independence movement to support them in the election then they need to provide a clear roadmap NOW – i.e. May 2021 an indy plebiscite or a clear and unequivocal date to hold a referendum in the manifesto. And also get rid of the woke faction and a change of leadership. I don’t think Scots like electing corrupt governments.
If it’s flim-flarm words in the manifesto (as I suspect it will be) then they will be bust. It will be 2017 all over again.
SNP members are getting as thin on the ground as their fellow anti-Independence colleagues, the Scottish Labour and Tory Parties.
They are all too ashamed to openly admit to being a member of any of the above Parties.
Unionists seem to believe because most of us might slaughter the SNP here
We ain’t that Dumb and totally stupid as to vote for any unionist parties so you lot live in yer own wee La La Land chaps .
When push comes to shove we will support the SNP because there is no alternative just now , that might just change if they don’t follow the Script , they are on probation just now .one more chance and that’s it so please take notice SNP management this is your last chance to show us your commitment to Independence .
But voting for a unionist party isn’t in our agenda never will be
-Breastplate-
I assume you are being ironic but that’s pretty much what the leadership’s supporters are saying!
-SR-
No offence but you’ve kind of proven my point. You don’t think Westminster will concede a referendum, and if they do “we’ll see what happens”. Doesn’t amount to much does it? Come on, you seem like an intelligent person, can’t you make that last leap and see what’s before you for what it is? The leadership aren’t taking that next step.
I too swallowed a lot of this but eventually the truth becomes clear.
@A Person
I just don’t see that there is any public mood for wheeling out the tumbrils right now.
If there is a total cast iron mandate in May, and if nothing happens, then I think there will be massive public support for a root and branch restructuring of the political scene at Holyrood.
There is widespread disillusionment already within the party, and it will split. The new parties will gain MSPs without the hassle of by-elections as former SNP MSPs cross the house.
By waiting six months there is every chance this group will achieve its ends. And of course there is always an outside chance that the SNP will see its end approaching and get its act together as a last resort.
The alternative – engage the self-destruct sequence immediately – risks no pro-indy majority at Holyrood after May and the end of everything. That is not a risk I am prepared to take.
Folks, Boris with a majority of 80 in Westminster has just played his opening gambit by declaring revolution a disaster.
We have been saying for months on this site and others that he would love to shut Holyrood. This latest approach is because his Internal Market Bill is in trouble. Biden won’t have it,The Lords won’t have it, and the EU won’t have it either. His only option left is to try and nullify Holyrood by other means.
Meanwhile the SNP reject conference proposals to discuss any other route to Indy bar a toothless National Convention.
Head, palm, slap.
Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross is not a happy bunny, saying:
“The Black Watch is more than just a symbol of our shared history and traditions, it’s a Scottish and British institution that continues to play a vital role in our armed services. These reports speculating about the future of the Black Watch are deeply unhelpful. I’m urgently seeking reassurances from the Ministry of Defence that this battalion will not be disbanded and we will continue to make the strong and compelling case that Scotland’s significant contribution to the UK Armed Forces is maintained.”
Comment: Westminster Government betrayal is firmly etched in the memories of all who have served with The Black Watch. The execution of the McPherson brothers, Malcolm and Sam and Farquar Shaw will never be forgotten.
link to caltonjock.com
@Scott Finlayson 11:06pm
Re: Abolition of Holyrood – No & also Yes
No is the short answer, Yes is the long answer.
If you have a read of the Scotland Act 1998 etc. such a decision should (ironically) be decided by a referendum on the matter – that would be the ‘No he can’t’ bit.
However, I will leave you find where it also says (to paraphrase) ‘We reserve the right to change anything within the Act as we see fit’
Now the tedious ‘Yes’ he could bit (tl;dr The UK Parliament can do whatever it wishes*) Apologies for length.
Recall that the Scotland Act is UK legislation (UK law) Referendums (reserved, or otherwise) are advisory only, unless stated otherwise (UK law) Devolution is reserved (UK law.
“The Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government are a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements”
However, note that the UK constitutional arrangements (its general legislation) also insists that the UK Parliament is Sovereign*
That would be the “We reserve the right…” bit of the Scotland Act/s
Fundamentally, the entirety of the Scotland Act is a reserved Power. Anything else therein is merely specific, temporarily transferred powers (devolved powers)
The permanence of the Scottish Parliament:Scotland Act 1998 63(3)
Abolition of the Scottish Parliament & Government, should only be ‘on the basis of…’ a referendum.
However, remember that a referendum is only advisory under UK law, unless specifically defined otherwise.
It also does not specifically state whether such a referendum is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to hold (ie: not reserved) or is entirely the remit of the UK Parliament to initiate – one would have to extrapolate from elsewhere within the Scotland Act and UK legislation to answer that (take a guess)
With reference to the Scotland Act 1998 – 101(2)
It would require an argument, or reading, that abolition on the basis of a decision (in a referendum) should be read ‘narrowly’ and that the result of such a referendum would be binding and not advisory.
An alternative argument and ‘reading’ may be that the clause merely re-iterates the advisory nature and that “on the basis of a decision..” is interchangeable in meaning with ‘advisory’
That is: the basis of the result – the decision of the people of Scotland – merely advises the UK Government, which retains Sovereignty to decide matters. As such the Parliament and Government of Scotland may still be abolished regardless of the result. Though that argument is a very hard, but not impossible sell.
It would not have been difficult to clarify that clause to insert ‘result’ and ‘binding’ – But we didn’t have anyone competent enough to sign-off on the Scotland Act/s, but then you are in the realms of a referendum overriding Parliamentary Sovereignty* – I digress.
To re-iterete: It takes no particular genius to read the Scotland Act etc. – just say what you see.
‘May be altered by us without notice – The Scotland Act is UK law, UK law is subject to UK Parliamentary Sovereignty.
UK Parliamentary Sovereignty states: where there is any interpretation or ruling, which conflicts with Parliamentary Sovereignty – Parliamentary Sovereignty takes precedence.
*For the anoraks, the infamous ‘Factortame case’ really tested that principle – hence Brexit.
All UK Legislation derives legitimacy from Parliamemtary Sovereignty, which in turn is derived from the Crown.
Interestingly there remains a clause (and a couple of related ones) buried in the Scotland Act 1998, which pretty much says:
“Much as we’d like to, unfortunately we cannot refute, that the Crown in Right of Scotland and its prerogative power cannot be reserved and we hope you don’t notice that bit, but we have to put it in here, it’s the Law and besides this entire Act is reserved anyway…oh look a squirrel”
I could expand on this topic, but its probably quite long enough already. I’ll merely suggest that the Miller/A50 result, didn’t so much give the UK Parliament a bloody nose – it gave us one.
As far as the SNP’s Plan B; in the far past it consisted of examining such ‘narrow readings’ clauses of the Scotland Act 1998 – Basically they were concerned with whether or not an S30 was required to hold an independence referendum and if it was within their competence.
Yes, the SNP’s Plan B was still a referendum – so anyone thinking Plan B means something other than a referendum, is talking of Plans C-Z. I doubt they’ve ever planned anything else, far less discussed it. They are by definition and expression a party of devolution and referendum, as such willing subordinates of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty.
This hard referendum at all costs, the only true democratic representation of the will of the people of Scotland narrative – driven by the SNP – invalidates Scotlands MP’s at Westminster as our duly elected UK representatives.
One could take the oblique view, that the abolishing of Holyrood is a good thing; it leaves only the Westminster route via our MP’s and actually far more straightforward, while being entirely democratic (by UK democracy) and an entirely acceptable route internationally.
Indeed Boris’ latest gaffe did just that – painted Westminster right unto a corner – without devolution, Scotland would have precisely no other option than invoking Independence via her MP’s at Westminster – which is why even the Tory commentariat are aghast at the prospect of abolition. They are in complete control of Holyrood and the referendum question – without it they are probably fucked.
Perhaps the question is not ‘can he abolish Holyrood’ so much as ‘should he’.
I see that Sturgeon has decided that her parent’s domain in North Ayrshire stays at level 3 with a test score of 154.4 whilst South Ayrshire moves to level 4 with a current ‘score’ of 153.6. I assume they have friends who run restaurants in the area:-)
@Ian Mhor,
One of the best explantations I have ever read on this site.
Should we in Scotland therefore not be pushing him to the limit. It would be unthinkable for him to enact the Internal Market Bill because of opposition here and internationally, and if he did ,to then deprive two countries within the UK of their devolved parliaments would be a further catastrophe internationally for the Tories.
This is in our favour so why are we not using it?
Does anyone know what is meant by “non-essential” in the context of the Tier 4 restrictions?
Not that any of it really matters. In densely populated areas with high transmission levels, keeping schools open is simply idiotic.
The real argument for keeping schools open is that it allows the parents to go out and work. That’s a flawed approach.
By keeping schools open the disruption to the economy is going to be greater than it otherwise would if we implemented “blended learning”, and the disruption will last longer.
Sturgeon keeps plucking at heart strings and pleading with us not to visit each other and interact, etc.
What the fuck does she think happens in schools? Kids who often don’t show symptoms in their tens of thousands are taking the disease home to their families as I type.
Making it all up as they go along, as usual, thousands more will needlessly die, and disruption to the economy will be greater than it would if she had done a proper lockdown 6 weeks ago.
Bananas.
“Just one more mandate. Honest, that’s all I need. One more mandate and I promise I will achieve everything I’ve failed to achieve for the last six years.”
One definition of madness is to repeat the same action over and over again but to expect a different outcome. We would, therefore, be truly insane to trust Nicola Sturgeon with another mandate.
In an attempt to hide her ineptitude, Nicola Sturgeon has wilfully driven the independence bus straight down a dead end alley, royally preening herself in the rear-view mirror as she is cheered on by her adoring crowd of reality-deniers. Unfortunately for us the bus is about to slam straight into a brick wall.
All this crap is Scotland’s problem for Scotland to solve.
OH. MAYBE NOT.
link to parliament.scot
“The Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee launched its call for views on the Bill on 17 November 2020.The Committee would welcome responses from all those with an interest in the Bill and you can access the call for views via the Citizen Space link below.parliament.scot/general-election-coronavirus-billThe closing date for responses is Sunday 22 November.”
Oh look another public consultation that will mean eff all to the SNP/ scot gov hierarchy.
Anyone want to place the odds of a pure “Postal Ballot”??
No doubt there are those rubbing their hands gleefully already.
@iain mhor
Who is sovereign on the day of UK general elections?
Iain mhor @ 2.50
Must admit Iain my first thought was : Go right ahead and abolish Holyrood Johnston :
It will take out a good few Conservative politicians and reset us back to Scottish Westminster MPs being the only route to Independence.
If even Independence majorities and multiple Mandates cannot deliver for Scotland then mibbi, jist
mibbi, Holyrood needs to get out of the bloody way?
Mibbi the MPs could resign one by one ( we’d need to check if by elections are automatic ) or en mass and stand on an Indy manifesto and get elected to the so called sovereign parliament and not the devolved one.
There’s our democratic event and it’s not tied up in Scotland Act Nonsense.
And there’s the choice actually clearly laid out for the Scottish voters Keep or End London rule.
None of this Devo pish anymore because it hides that London rule is and has always been the real issue.
Hold on, it’s not until 01/01/2021 that the Treaty of Union is breached and no longer valid. Scotland and England revert to their previous independent status.
Anyone got any suggestions for Nicola’s New Year telly thing?
A Person,
You are correct but unfortunately it is becoming more difficult to produce satire as the SNP has become a parody of itself.
Hi Stu. According to your wWikipedia page,you are a ‘Turncoat bastards'(sic). Just randomly noticed that while scrolling by.
PhilM @ 3.21
I think their Queen is Sovereign on Election Day and every other day too.
But it’s a good point ……. In Scotland, where we are Sovereign,
A UK general election, it could be argued, does mean we can keep or hand back our Sovereignty?
Indy ref one was a Devolved event and they made rules for it, but a U.K. General Election is not and it seems there are already rules in place.
The main one being that their Queen *Dissolves the sitting Parliament *…. she holds their Sovereignty till there’s a new Parliament but she doesn’t hold ours.
It’s a very interesting avenue to explore PhilM and all the more so because I haven’t really seen it argued anywhere yet ….
Wee monkey, when there was a consultation on the Independence Referendum Bill, I responded to point out that they should consider early voting. A single question with, essentially, a single electorate would have been ideal for working out how it would function in a general election.
What I do not understand is why they are tagging the “early voting” period onto the end of election day. That is, to put it bluntly, bonkers. Here in Wake County NC, we have early voting. It starts on the Thursday seventeen days before the election and runs until the Saturday before. This year it was October 15th to 31st, prior to the election on Tuesday November 3rd.
Because of the issues with the postal service at the moment (clear voter suppression) my wife and I initially decided to vote on election day itself. However, the greatly expanded hours for early voting (8am-7:30pm weekdays, 8-3 Saturdays and 1-6 Sundays) meant that there were no lines most of the time at the twenty early voting sites and we ended up going out on the middle Sunday. Wake County is home to 1.1 million people. Everyone got a pen wrapped in cellophane at the door to use in filling in the ballot. Poll workers were protected by perspex dividers and wore masks & gloves. Staff were employed solely to sanitize every voting booth. The site I went to was in a sports center, on a basketball court.
The point of all this is to say that there is no need for an all-postal vote. None at all. If the will is there, sensible precautions can be put in place to allow people to vote in person. I would observe that about 60% of the electorate in NC voted early in person. It was something like 4.5 million. About 900,000 mail-in ballots were requested but about 100,000 were not returned. We will get official figures in a few weeks but I suspect that a good number of those not returned were because people chose to vote in person, either in early voting or on the day.
If the Scottish Government would get its head out of the very dark place in which it currently resides, it might realise there is another way of doing this and it might consider taking lessons from the USA, where we have held important elections in fifty-one jurisdictions and where the political party in control made no real difference to the fairness of that election.
Scots renewables : You suggest that giving the SNP leadership one last chance and a big majority in May is the best way forward.
The problem is what are the SNP leadership going to do with their next four years of holyrood control ?
The SNP heirarchy ( the murrells, daddy bear smith, sa somerville,humza yusuf, rhiannon spears and a majority of the NEC {How big a majority – no one knows. As the meetings are kept secret}) have shown that they are willing to sacrifice anything to further the genderwoowoo idiocy and yusuf’s thought crime bill.
The SNP have already lost half their members because of these policy ideas. If they are given a mandate to enact them then they will end up with only the wokeratti as members. About a thousand people.
I am not going to hold my nose and vote genderwoowoo at any stage.
The wokeratti have no inclination to drop their genderwoowoo policies or humza yusuf’s hate crime bill. The woke are totally unwilling to “wheesht for indy”. The problem for the SNP leadership is neither are those who oppose them.
A good leader would make a decision before they lost half of their supporters. It is obvious Nicola Sturgeon is not a good leader.
@alf baird says:
‘ If the process of Scotland’s UK union alliance withdrawal is deemed lawful, international recognition will inevitably follow.’ aye, ‘if’.
and ‘If Scotland’s Nationalist politicians are not up to the task’ again, ‘if’.
and ‘Like other oppressed nations the Scots elect Nationalist politicians to bring an end to our colonial oppression in all its forms and to liberate the people; this is what independence is about.’ surely, they bring about the political context whereby ‘the people’ liberate themselves?
and a clear majority vote for independence would provide that context. so far, we have not had that. may 2021 is the doorway we need to get through. on the basis of which, a section 30 is requested, which, if refused, would illustrate to everyone the illegitimacy and irrelevance of westminster. then the fun starts!
Just collecting opinion about the FMs statement today amongst extended family and friends. Predominantly an SNP family. (Late mums influence) I think it is safe to assume that an overall majority for the SNP in May has gone. Perhaps that was the strategy along on. No IndyRef and Sturgeon stays in her job. If Stu is a turn coat then so am I. I hope one day we have a Scottish Parliament that functions in the interests of the people.
Anyone else remember nicolas mini lockdown that lasted 3 weeks back in October for the central belt? We were told then that it would crush the curve and reset transmission by a month, turns out that it was all garbage, it didn’t even make a blip on the graph, its almost like you can’t stop the transmission of a highly effective virus with lockdown policies.
But no we are now trapped in this endless cycle of lockdown and then slightly easing it that could easily go on forever. Also take into consideration that even though pubs and restaurants have been allowed to open these past few weeks many of them have decided not to as it isn’t worth staying open to 6pm and not being allowed to sell any alcohol.
At the Inquiry today the best was kept to the very last. As previously discussed on this blog, Professional Legal Privilege does not apply to Civil Servants, only Ministers, despite what Evans says. Thus;
“Views given by the Law Officers in their Ministerial capacity, as opposed to legal advice provided by them in their capacity as legal advisers, are also not covered by the provision in paragraph 2.38.” (Ministerial Code, 2.41)
In response to that point, made by M Fraser today, Evans advanced her supposed argument by suggesting that the legal advice was given jointly, to both her and Ministers, and as such was still covered by PLP and article 2.38 of the Ministerial Code.
Maybe that’s true.
But, as I understand it, if it can be established that meetings took place with Evans and Law officers without the presence of a Minister or Ministers, or any members of the Civil Service and Law officers, then the advice given and any discussions they had would not be covered by 2.38, and should straight forwardly be made available to the Inquiry.
My guess is they’d say they were at those meetings in their “Ministerial capacity”, even if no Ministers were present. But how can we be sure of that?
And is it not likely or at least possible that the Civil Service itself, independently of Cabinet, had its own legal concerns with regards to its role in the Salmond affair and that it took legal advice on that role and its concerns? If so, the Inquiry ought to be able to access that advice without any encumbrance.
iain mhor says:
17 November, 2020 at 2:50 pm
….One could take the oblique view, that the abolishing of Holyrood is a good thing; it leaves only the Westminster route via our MP’s and actually far more straightforward, while being entirely democratic (by UK democracy) and an entirely acceptable route internationally.
The ‘oblique’ view is broadly speaking closest to my own view.
I am not moved by any reference made to UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, because UK Parliamentary Sovereignty is sovereignty by convention, NOT actual sovereignty.
The “convention” on sovereignty is the unwritten jiggery pokery whereby two intrinsically separate and wholly incompatible sovereignties ‘somehow’ become one. The reality is, the divine sovereignty of England’s singular monarch CANNOT be joined with the popular sovereignty of the Scottish people.
The ‘convention’ is a device where people ‘fudge’ the technical impossibility of combining incompatible sovereignties, and choose to ignore that impossible reconciliation in lieu of an ‘unwritten’ workaround; a workaround which suspiciously does not actually explain how the workaround resolves the issue of incompatible sovereignties.
The truth is, the convention on UK Parliamentary Sovereignty is much more prosaic and expedient. All it does is pay lip service to Scottish Sovereignty, and exercises UK Parliamentary Sovereignty in the style of English Sovereignty. In essence, Scottish Sovereignty is subjugated, but nobody must ever publicly admit it, and the actuality must be hidden behind the ambiguous and Impenetrable sophistry of the UK’s “Convention” on Sovereignty.
That unholy convention works, but only because it fools people, and it only survives while both sovereign entities agree that it works, (you’ve heard the term sovereignty by consensus yes?) or more accurately, where neither sovereign entity looks too closely at the small print, and exposes the fiction.
That my friends is why I obsess so much about Brexit.
Forget about the European component of Brexit for a moment. Brexit was a watershed moment when one sovereign component of the UK Union voted for Brexit, and the other sovereign component of the UK voted against Brexit.
That Constitutional impasse, the unsolvable conundrum, creates the very same dilemma for the Brexit Vote which has been buried behind the UK’s “Convention” of Parliamentary Sovereignty throughout these past 300 years. The defining principle of the UK Government’s “Convention” on Parliamentary Sovereignty is that Scotland’s Sovereignty is quashed, Scotland is “quietly” subjugated, but crucially, to make it stick, historically Scotland’s “leadership” has bribed, cajoled, threatened, blackmailed, or given an ermine cloak to shut up about it.
Therein, you have the recipe for how Scotland has been subjugated and denied it’s constitutionally sovereign rights for 300 years.
BUT!!! The UK Government got complacent and sloppy. (They actually started getting sloppy in 1979, and 1997 with Devolution Referendums but I digress…). The point is, they got sloppy over a Brexit Referendum which allowed the Sovereign Entity of Scotland to vote Remain, while the Sovereign Entity of England’s voted leave.
They allowed Scotland an opportunity to say No, and Scotland took it. Scotland DID say no, and that is THE moment when the myth about conventional sovereignty by consensus became sovereignty by colonial subjugation. Scotland’s NO was overruled.
The instant the Brexit result happened, you had created a constitutional crisis which could not be resolved UNLESS one sovereign entity had it’s lawful sovereignty unlawfully subjugated. That is colonialism; the imposition of one nation’s will upon another, and it is contrary to International Law.
That is why Scotland MUST take it’s colonial subjugation through Brexit to the UN’s International Court of Human Rights, and have the International Community recognise that Scotland has been unlawfully subjugated.
Why does that matter? Because Scotland’s ‘Routine’ subjugation Via Brexit is the the very same unconstitutional grievance as Scotland’s ‘Routine’ subjugation via the UK Governments unwritten convention on Parliamentary Sovereignty.
Kill Brexit with our Constitutional Rights, and we kill the perfidious fallacy of the UK Union with the same sling shot.
FIGHT BREXIT. Our subjugation is not lawful, and testing that at the UN will put the UK’s unwritten constitution under international scrutiny which will lead it to collapse.
Do you see? Do you understand why Sturgeon’s wretched capitulation back in January matters so much? Scotland cannot afford to have her squandering our Constitutional defences like this. If she continues to do so, she and the hapless SNP cronies around her will facilitate the complete and irremediable subjugation of our ancient Nation. Open your eyes!!! She is already presenting Westminster with a veto on Scotland’s democracy. Stop her! Impeach her!
Remove the idiot from office before it’s too late, and take Scotland’s subjugation to the UN.
@Hatuey
Congratulations on staying the course. I give up after 10 minutes. Lots of people commenting on statements from Boris when the problem is closer to home. There is fundamental flaws in our Parliament’s set up. Procedurally, structurally and checks and balances. Called me old fashioned but the will of the Parliament should be respected. They are our representatives. It has developed into a game not a good look.
The way Boris is going on ‘Holyrood being a disaster’ it now seems clear they will close it or via the UK market bill render it powerless.
Well Nicola I have supported you to date and I have even been in support thru the Salmond trial, all be it he is completely innocent, and in the belief we will deal with the conspiracy later.
Now you have to rise to this challenge by Westminster or lose all. What you going to do?
Are you a nationalist or a unionist puppet. Should I send you a white flag?
PS: have no doubt Westminster will expose any conspiracy and any message between you and the alphabet people. The English always betray those that deliver for them.
-Tannadice-
Like you I am picking up more and more resentment of Sturgeon when I speak to people. Although obviously I have strong political views, I try not to mention them to people I don’t know well, but people just come out with it. My dentist, mid-filling the other day, described her in very explicit terms! I made a noise to indicate my agreement!
The most proximate cause is resentment of lockdown restrictions, now, this might be because I am self-employed and it’s people like me that are really suffering (luckily I’m okay myself), but nevertheless it’s quite clear. You also hear people say that her record is dire and is she actually interested in independence at all. Keeps getting accused of being an egomaniac with which I heartily agree. This has seeped into the mainstream; some pundits have started to criticise her quite clearly.
Do you know what it reminds me of? In late 2013 I was being mocked by my right-wing relatives because “haha, nobody’s going to vote for independence”. You had articles in the mainstream media predicting we’d get a third of the vote. I remember one in particular about a rally in Stornoway which was badly attended, saying “if they can’t get people to a rally in an SNP seat how will they win”. All the time people- including some surprising ones- were telling me they were in favour of it. We had momentum for eighteen months prior to the referendum when it was being treated as some crazy scheme.
People say “look at the polls” but look at how badly the polls misjudged the US election. People keep being told “everybody in Scotland loves Nicola Sturgeon and she’s going to win a landslide”. You don’t want to say you dislike her. The polls didn’t pick up support for independence growing until about June 2014; I was excited about the growing momentum for well over a year before that.
Also, I am terrified that the Tories ditch Johnson and put in Sunak. Sunak is about as far from the caricature upper-class twit as it is possible to be (although he went to Winchester and is a billionaire!). “Friendly young Indian guy” is a popular image in Scotland. He would instantly get rid of our biggest asset. Remember that independence has only polled higher since it became likely that Johnson would replace May.
@A Person 4 50
Agreed Sturgeon is an impediment to Independence and the SNP. They are hearing want they want to hear. 2 to 1 of my extended family are not voting for her in May including myself. We are talking in terms of not only a majority but she may do badly enough to be removed. My brother is a diehard SNP supporter all his life is scunnered to the point of not voting. The SNP are a very efficient polling machine and I can’t believe this hasn’t got through.
Just a thought,Why dont the scottish green party pull a rabbit out the hat, and declare a mandate for a plebiscite may election. whoever does this in scotland would i’m sure have the votes of the majority population.
@ Mike d
Not my vote Mike; nothing short of illegal duress would make me vote for a party that insists that humans can change sex and that this must not be debated
Just got home and was listening to the most vile, bleating radio 4 programme about law. The topic today was the anonymity of sexual victim complaints.
Rape crisis Scotland given BBC airtime to dish the law mentioning Alex Salmond prominently.
Leading in the ” victims” and how vulnerable they are.
This from an organisation that employed saville and one that tried to discredit an innocent man and get him jailed.
The alphabet women cannot hide behind lies!!!!! The truth is coming out ladies!!
Trump concession speech, I wish!
link to twitter.com
Astonished says:
17 November, 2020 at 4:11 pm
Scots renewables : You suggest that giving the SNP leadership one last chance and a big majority in May is the best way forward.
The problem is what are the SNP leadership going to do with their next four years of holyrood control ?
If the SNP have an overall majority and do not immediately expedite plans A, B and if necessary C then they will fracture. Many who have given large chunks of their lives to the party will leave if this ultimate betrayal happens.
But for now, if the likes of Joana Cherry and Kenny Macaskill think the best thing to do is hang in there brcsuse the Indy door is open, then who am I to disagree?
… So the majority enjoyed by a wokerati SNP who had abandoned independence would be very short-lived…
In truth, if you think the SNP will betray us, then the best way to destroy them is give them enough rope.
Alec Lomax
I am not a Tory. The only party I have ever been a member of is the SNP.
I am now an ex-SNP member. Under Sturgeon especially (but the issue goes back further, to the start of devolution), the SNP no longer gives priority to the restoration of Scotland’s national sovereignty.
In sharp contrast to all Scotland’s MPs and MSPs – such as the SNP, Labour and Tories – I have not and will not, swear allegiance to Queen Elizabeth and her heirs, as I believe Scotland’s politicians should pledge their allegiance to the sovereign people of Scotland only.
A Caller to LBC this afternoon apparently a Pilot giving his views on our country ( he wasnt Scottish ) anyway speaking very politely about Truck loads of cash heading north every week from Poor Engurland , the Barnet formula has to be scrapped because the Jocks are living the high life on English money .
I seem to remember the same shite in 2014 – 2015 -2016 -2017 -2018 -2019 so stop me if you have heard it before.
I used to argue with any unionist especially English that we pay exactly the same Tax as them , now I cant be arsed and just say aye yer right it fair screws with their brain when you say aye why do the English want to stop us leaving if we are that much of a dead weight and a drain on their exchequer .gets them every time the bewildered look
-Tannadice-
I am definitely finding this among acquaintances.
We keep being told by the mainstream media, not that Sturgeon is great and is popular, but that **everyone in Scotland thinks** Sturgeon is great and is really popular. I simply don’t believe this is the case.
Albert Herring, your comment at 3:51pm is 100% correct, excellently and succinctly stated:
“Hold on, it’s not until 01/01/2021 that the Treaty of Union is breached and no longer valid. Scotland and England revert to their previous independent status.”
A genuine independence party would be preparing for independence on 01/01/2021. The shoe would then be on the other foot and it would be up to Westminster to prove in an international court of law that the Treaty of Union is still extant. Good luck with that!
@A Person
I comment because nobody in the SNP on May 7th is going to say they weren’t aware. Indeed if we do have elections on May 6th. Looking like the election will be spread over a few days. Absolute nonsense!. The SNP were telt!
-Robert Graham-
Quite correct. Do English people think we draw a big doodle on our tax returns every year? Silly me for paying them all this time!
“My dentist, mid-filling the other day”
At present SNHS dentistry is very much limited due to the need for “extra” sanitation precautions.
Makes you wonder what they did before.
Fiona Robertson responding to Joanna Cherry not too politely: link to twitter.com
As Bozo & Forrest Gimp (aka DRoss) attempt to play-down the disastrous devo comments from Bozo yesterday quite a few folk are dropping handy wee bombs like this one all over the place. Of course, none of the 2 of them will ever be pushed on the reality or even the existence of these facts. link to archive.is
Tannadice Boy, nothing wrong with spreading elections over several days. It can be done, if there is the will to do it. I do have a problem with certain groups of people being told when they must vote. That is an affront to democracy. You can be sure the Republican Party here in the USA will be watching to see if they can get away with that in elections over here. Then where does it end?
I read the Scottish General Election (Coronavirus) Bill and it is extremely worrying. Rather too much is left to Ministers or the Presiding Officer. If this is passed as it stands, parliamentary scrutiny of any regulations is pretty much nil. The solution is to define the rules before the event, rather than during it. this is bloody awful legislation and I hope any right-minded democrat will strongly oppose it.
A Person @ 4:55pm:
If Sunak is to be the next PM, he will need to move before he has to carry the can for the mass unemployment/crash which seems likely to result when furlough is finally ended. He is already making noises of the “there’s going to be a reckoning for all this!” type. With everyone outside of austerity Tories, this is unlikely to make him into a popular PM type so if he does want to be some loveable man of the people (I doubt this) then he’s showing political nous now by continuing furlough but letting mass unemployment occur would not be political nous at all. If he only wants to appeal
to austerity Tories all that matters less.
He is enjoying popularity (at least relative to other Tories) but will carry the can and be blamed by voters when they are chucked out of work (Boris will be blamed also).
I’ve seen people saying Sunak might be this generation’s John Major but if there is a crash or mass unemployment, he’s at least as likely to be this generation’s Norman Lamont.
Anyone else hear that George Galloway is not with the “Unity Party” (or whatever they call themselves)?
ScotsRenewables says:
17 November, 2020 at 5:41 pm
“In truth, if you think the SNP will betray us, then the best way to destroy them is give them enough rope.”
We did. And they did. About 10 times.
No longer with the “Unity Party” that last comment should have read.
@Skip_NC
There is absolutely no need to extend the elections over a few days. We all stand in the supermarket for messages every day. A manufactured nonsense to extend the election. What happens in America is down to them. I concentrate on my own Parliament. And lately they are one of the least democratic Parliaments.
@ ‘ScotsRenewables says:
17 November, 2020 at 1:40 pm
Daisy,
Please have the decency to think before you make personal attacks. You may be a ‘helluva communicator’ but you need to tone down the hostility.
I am not talking about what legally or morally may constitute a mandate, I am talking about public perception.’
Dear Scot -I am sorry for making it personal, but not for getting angry.
And in politics, public perception will get you so far, after that its about winning votes, then winning seats, then getting power.
I have voted SNP all my adult life, I never ‘lent’ them my vote. And they have all but lost it.
And from comments above, and diminished membership numbers, not to mention an almost disastrous GE in 2017 (in spite of the polls) – perhaps you could tell me, what’s the public perception on that.
Haemorrhaging long term, back bone voters, at at time of National crisis and approaching disaster. In what way is that a good look, or good tactics.
Tannadice: “Congratulations on staying the course. I give up after 10 minutes.”
You didn’t miss much. Basically they said all their apparently strange and furtive behaviour was perfectly normal… everything is awesome, and we all need to stfu.
@Daisy Walker
Well said!
@Hatuey
It’s the normalisation of deceit and smugness that gets me. It’s the old Scottish hard man approach. “Whit you going to dae aboot it”. The answer May 6th if we are allowed to vote again.
@Daisy Walker –
Hear hear.
And as if we weren’t in enough of a crisis, we see, at the harassment inquiry this morning, two prime examples of the kind of person this government has encouraged and empowered – Wolffe and Evans showing utter contempt for what is, in effect, a ‘court’ of the parliament.
Far from help the government grapple with any of the constitutional perils engulfing us, this pair of roasters palm everyone off with semantic cul-de-sacs, outright evasion and provable lies – only a fool would ignore the horrible truth i.e. that they do, indeed, represent the current administration.
How many Scots – regardless of what party they support – would ever have knowingly voted for such shameless, inept, arrogant representation?