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Wings Over Scotland


More research needed

Posted on July 06, 2013 by

We won’t do any more of these after this one, honest. But we couldn’t help noticing the Director Of Research for “Better Together” posting this sorry whinge of a tweet last night, unable to resist a chance to have a snipe – however petty – at the First Minister of Scotland for wishing a Scottish sportsman well on behalf of the people of Scotland:

aikman

Mr Aikman might want to poll a little wider before repeating that claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We think it’s fair to say that’s less than unanimous, Gordon.

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    175 to “More research needed”

    1. Adrian B says:

      So many people with so much hate. Some people really do need help.

    2. Davy says:

      Well at least most of them know how to spell ‘cunt’, even if they are not as useful.
       

    3. Geoff Huijer says:

      Keyboard tough guys. Hmmm…

    4. roboscot says:

      I read a comment on the BBC website yesterday that Andy is anti-English because he considers himself Scottish.

    5. Tomo says:

      Rev,
       
      I hated seeing you retweet these last night, but I understood the point you were making. It’s unfortunate that there are narrow minded people happy to see a Scotsman representing GB lose rather than cheer him on. it’s even more unfortunate that they have never taken the time to find out why he make the remarks back in 2006.
       
      Andy Murray is proud of his Scottish and British heritage and I am proud too see him represent Scotland as part of Great Britain, regardless of my view on independence.
       
      #MonTheMurray 

    6. a supporter says:

      What pathetic idiot is Gordon Aikman.
      And good again Rev Stu for reproducing the meanderings of the ‘non racist’ English gentlefolk. There was at least one female in amongst that set of rubbish.

    7. Ken McDonald says:

      These twitter comments really fill me with despair. I just cannot comprehend how anyone can conceivably subject such a torrent of abuse to a complete stranger.  What compells these people to be driven so ?

    8. Shinty says:

      Their mothers must be so proud of them.
       
      All the best on Sunday Andy.

    9. a supporter says:

       
      Ken McDonald at 12.29 06/07/13
      They don’t fill me with despair. They show quite clearly why we should be rid of England. The morons quoted above are at least up front about it. And the more Scots who know what they really think about us the better. And it is no insult to be hated by the English considering they hate every other ethnic group and race on the planet.
       

    10. scottish_skier says:

      The irony is that it is the unionist parties which have created this (minority) element of anti-Scottish feeling in England. What do they expect if they give people there the mistaken impression Scotland is living a subsidised the high life off their taxes.

    11. Is one officially considered a grammar nazi if one finds this tweet the most offensive? “would love murray to get to the final and loose. scottish cunt”

    12. Shinty says:

      a supporter
       
      Don’t talk nonsense, Independence for Scotland is NOT about the good people of England.
       

    13. ianbrotherhood says:

      Surely we need to see some more when Murray wins?
       
      Purely for research purposes of course.

    14. Dee says:

      I work in the offshore industry, which is littered with little englanders, and they casually and regularly pass remarks on people’s race, like sweaty socks, thick micks, sheep shaggin welsh, hitler comments to poles, the list is endless, yet if put the other way towards the English then you are anti English and a typical moaning Scot. It really makes my blood boil at the casual way they are allowed to make racist comments unchecked.. After independence I will not be long in reminding them that they are working abroad now and that their racist comments are not welome in MY country.

    15. Archibald Berwick Melrose [aka Archie] says:

      @ Ken – I couldnt agree more with you. Despite Rev Stu’s encouragement I choose to pass with Twitter and stick with smoke signals minus ‘cite’ tags !
      Wish me luck! Am off to Radisson Hotel, Aberdeen tomorrow for a hot date with a Yes Scotland IT Team who are conducting a training session in Effective Online Communication. mmmmmmmmm  

    16. Gizzit says:

      Truth is, there are morons and cretins in every city, town and village in the UK – I reckon we simply have to take the high road, and not get aggravated by these clowns.
       
       

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      It annoys me to see people confuse expect and except. Just because your spell checker says it is OK doesn’t mean you have the right word. Ignorant cants 😉

    18. mato21 says:

      These morons are not fit to tie Andy Murrays shoelaces
      I do not think any of them will have  ever done anything in their miserable lives to make anyone proud of them
      This young man donated ALL his winnings from Queens to the Royal Marsden hospital in gratitude of the treatment his friend has had and that’s only one example that we have heard about His Mum gave out tea to those queuing up and another day was caught carrying in cakes for the ground staff Not the actions of people only interested in themselves
      He has applied himself all his life to be the best he can be and deserves his success he has worked for it  
       

    19. Yesitis says:

      And yet, and I don`t know why it is, but Gordon Aikman`s tweet angers me more.
      Morons and Norons…the pig trough of fate awaits you all.

    20. a supporter says:

       
      Shinty at 12.50 pm 06/07/13
      Don’t talk nonsense, Independence for Scotland is NOT about the good people of England.
       
      Oh stop it. Your cringe is showing.
       
       

    21. Doug Daniel says:

      It’s not just the fact that it’s obvious not everyone in the UK is supporting Andy tomorrow. It’s also the bizarre idea that the First Minister of SCOTLAND should speak for the whole of the UK. What a twit.
       
      On the subject of Andy Murray, I really wish he’d get another girlfriend. The Kim Sears lassie always gives it that horrible “oh yah, come on chaps, jolly good” kind of look when cheering him on. I’d much rather that everytime the camera pans over to the box, there’s a lassie there screaming “FUCKING DO IT ANDY, FUCKIN GET INTAE HIM!!”
       
      I almost don’t want him to win tomorrow, because I wanted him to win Wimbledon in 2014 and unfurl a saltire. But I suppose he could do that next year anyway. And fuck it, tomorrow’s as good a time as any to piss off the kind of folk you’ve highlighted in this post.

    22. pmcrek says:

      a supporter,
       
      The folks tweeting this bile represent a minority of folks in England, as do parties like UK IP and BNP. Stating that such views are representative of everyone in England is total bollocks and just as bigoted as the content of these tweets.

    23. Buster bloggs says:

      news to me, Mr Salmond is fm of the uk, oh that’s right, he isn’t but he is fm of Scotland so speaks for Scotland, what a complete brainless idiot the bt chap is. 

    24. a supporter says:

      Ianbrotherhood at 12.51 06/07/13
      Surely we need to see some more when Murray wins? Purely for research purposes of course.
      And not only for research but in the vain hope that an MSM outfit will actually start criticising the swivel eyed BritNats. There will be more, lots more on Sunday and I hope Stu does a turn on them too.

       
       

    25. bawheid bragg says:

      comedy gold. I’d loved to have seen their spittle-flecked, vein popping faces after Murray’s win yesterday. Haters keep hatin’…

    26. handclapping says:

      @A supporter
      As an Englishman, Independence for Scotland is NOT about the good people of England, its about the morons of Westminster and Whitehall and our inability to make them see sense.

    27. a supporter says:

       
      Dee at 12.52 06/07/13
      “I work in the offshore industry, which is littered with little englanders, and they casually and regularly pass remarks on people’s race, like sweaty socks, thick micks, sheep shaggin welsh, hitler comments to poles, the list is endless, yet if put the other way towards the English then you are anti English and a typical moaning Scot. It really makes mIt really makes my blood boil at the casual way they are allowed to make racist comments unchecked.. After independence I will not be long in reminding them that they are working abroad now and that their racist comments are not welome in MY country.”
       
      Well why the fuck don’t you remind them now. No Englishman would get away with calling me a sweaty. I would at least call him a minger or get involved physically.

    28. Wayne says:

      To this day I never understand why Andy Murray never sued the newspaper that printed that story.  That one article, and the misrepresented quote from a bit of banter with Tim Henman has created so much mis-informed ill-feeling towards him.  It doesn’t matter to these morons that the same journalist that wrote the article later wrote another one apologising for it and setting things straight.
       
      The reality is that Scottishness is seen as incompatible with Britishness, whereas Englishness is essentially just a synonym for Britishness.  Britishness has always been anglocentric at core.  Murray is hated because he Scottish, it is racism pure and simple.
       
      Having said that not all Scots like Murray either it has to be said, there is a minority here that loathe him also.

    29. Murray McCallum says:

      Imagine the stick Alex Salmond would have got if he actually had said UK?  That would have been front page news – “Upstart Wee Eck claims PM job”.
      What will the price of 6 Tyskies be in an independent Scotland?

    30. Stevie says:

      I find their comments nasty and shocking

    31. a supporter says:

       
      pmcrek at 1.20 pm 06/07/13
      Another cringer. Pulleez the ‘nice’ YES folk stop annoying me. 

    32. Colin Dunn says:

      Roddy MacDonald says:

      “Is one officially considered a grammar nazi if one finds this tweet the most offensive? “would love murray to get to the final and loose. scottish cunt”

      No, that’s the one that especially rankled with me too. Sad innit.

    33. balgayboy says:

      Scots problems are not the English hating the Scots… it’s the Scots hating the Scots and their own country that are the problem. Never going to stop a very small minority of the English nation calling us c**ts just as we have in Scotland calling them the same. Best we separate then the term British is eradicated from the two nations. Well done the British Lions BTW.

    34. Chic McGregor says:

      The first literary and published use of the word ‘cunt’ was by Scots Makar William Dunbar, although Chaucer et al had used differently spelled (and probably differently sounded) variants, like ‘queynte’ before that.

    35. Braco says:

      Rev Stu,
      I understand the reasons and therefore your desire to highlight the disparity in reporting of actual BritNat vs alleged Cybernat aggression on the internet and more generally. However, and there is a however, this seems to me to be a very dangerous path that you are walking.
       
      There are idiots everywhere. This has very little to do with why I and most YES voters I know want Independence for Scotland. I think the job you set out to do has been accomplished. Any more of this type of ‘proof’ will, in my view, only breed rancour. The last thing we need, is to add any more heat to that kind of idiocy.
       
      Pointing out these individuals, is also giving them access to the voice you have worked so hard to create. WOS, a voice that has reach and power.
       
      Let them build up their own giant following for their hate filled group think and not be given a free ride on yours (ours). This is infectious stuff, just read some of the comments it is inspiring. This forum is too important.
       
      In the long run I can only see hate and mistrust being the winner from this kind of stuff, something these idiots are already attempting to achieve in their own pathetic cack handed manner. Please don’t involve us any more than absolutely necessary.
       
       
       
       

    36. Pedro says:

      I hope to God that he isn’t thrown a union jack if he wins!

    37. pmcrek says:

      a supporter
      You made a demonstrably untrue generalisation about an entire nation, how exactly is it cringe to point your glaring and rather bigoted fallacy out to you?
       

    38. Yesitis says:

      Pedro
      I hope to God that he isn’t thrown a union jack if he wins!
       
      What are the chances of that not happening? Hope there`s a handy saltire in the vicinity 🙂

    39. Chic McGregor says:

      There is, I think, a bit of a fallacy being mooted as a given here which, in my experience, I would challenge.  Namely that reciprocation by pro-indy cybernats using similar comments in similar quantities to the ones cited in these articles exists.  If it does, then it has escaped me, and I have read a lot of posts in many independence related forums over the past 20 years.

    40. Rgweir says:

      It seems the future of England is in safe hands and the English education system is world class,Being able to produce such levels of education is worthy of praise.

    41. TYRAN says:

      If this was the other way around we would have Darling say something like Salmond needs to halt the cybernat attacks, as if some sort of personal online message validator for the internet. So…
      Darling needs to halt these cyberfanny attacks.
       
       

    42. Jimbo says:

      Quite sad that any sportsperson is decried and racially abused for that accident of birth of not being fortunate enough to have been born in the same country as the racists.
       
      I saw a poll recently that claimed Andy Murray was considered to be Scottish, not British, by a fair majority. The first thing that struck me was: Why would anyone commission such a poll (unless to cause divide)? The second was: If the majority consider a Scot not to be British, who do they consider are the British?

    43. Murray McCallum says:

      Sorry to go O/T but I am sure I saw Johann Lamont’s picture on the side of a milk carton this morning.
      Will cows still produce milk in an independent Scotland?

    44. Atypical_Scot says:

      Five million Scots, 60 million rUKer’s.
       
      Some people have to be this type by proxy, the bit I don’t get is why tweet it? Doesn’t make more sense given the word in use – social media, that some have missed the meaning? 

    45. Training Day says:

      Murray is in an impossible position if he wins tomorrow. The ideal scenario for Project Fear is that he carries a Union jack alongside a saltire. He may have no choice in the matter.

      Let’s make sure we end this farce on 18 September next year and allow one of the finest sportsmen we’ve ever produced the dignity of competing for his own country and end the situation where people like Aikman can use a guy who is worth a hundred of him as a political tennis ball.

    46. Ian Mackay says:

      I’d be surprised if – on Andy Murray winning – he doesn’t pick up a Union Flag. Not because he’s not a proud Scot or pro-Independence or whatever, but purely as in PR terms he needs to be careful. 
      Picking up a Saltire could potentially P**s off at least half the Wimbledon crowd and do more damage to his reputation in England.
      Maybe he might pick up a Union Flag and Saltire, I guess England might accept that, but on the above evidence even that would be a risk.

    47. balgayboy says:

       
      Training Day says:@2.20
      Agree, this is getting ridiculous. This is a tennis match between 2 great athletes, whoever wins will deservedly be crowned champion and that’s it. It has no bearing on what his nationality is or political leanings are. All the other stuff is fluff. Come on Andy.

    48. faltdubh says:

      A lot of ugly comments, but there were also tons of racist bile from Scots and Brits a like towards Polish people too. 

    49. Braco says:

      Chic McGregor,
      Who is mooting that here? I don’t see it.

    50. Braco says:

      Ok, there’s faltdubh now.

    51. Marker Post says:

      @ Archie
       
      “Off to a meeting with Yes Scotland IT Team who are conducting a training session in Effective Online Communication”
       
      I knew it! Salmond is controlling the cybernats!!
       
       

    52. Chic McGregor says:

      I don’t live in England but I did think the reaction, or rather non reaction, to the news that Andy Murray had won (imparted by a celebrity competitor) on the live Millionaire Drop was rather strange.  Especially when the audience on that show generally hoot like demented baboons at the mere flicker of an eyelid.  It was tumbleweed time,… although there was a slight titter when she added ‘just to prove we’re live’ after the pregnant silence.
      The host’s ‘That’s brilliant’ also seemed to me somewhat less than heartfelt.
      You can assess my current level of paranoia, or not, for yourself at the link, start about 50:20 in, may need to endure ads at start of tube.
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNXR5DIt0_0
       

    53. Andy-B says:

      Imagine the stick we’ll get next year, when we vote YES, we’ll be called every name under the sun……and then some…Oh well it will be worth it.

    54. Murray McCallum says:

      If Andy Murray wins Wimbledon I personally hope he picks up no flag.  Rather, he should take all his clothes off and run round Centre Court shouting GIRUY!  It is times like this the young lad needs to show some class.

    55. Jimbo says:

      faltdubh
      “A lot of ugly comments, but there were also tons of racist bile from Scots and Brits a like towards Polish people too.”
       
      I think the point of Rev. Stu’s article is that the BBC/MSM/Unionist politicians very quickly report on, and utterly condemn, any anti English insults/bile/criticism posted by supporters of independence, even when in  a couple of instances they knew the complaints to be fabricated/false.
      You’ll have noted that they (BBC/MSM/Unionist politicians) seem to have completely missed/ignored and failed to condemn these racist attacks on Andy Murray.

    56. Murray McCallum says:

      @ Jimbo
      That’s right and the Rev highlights (in twitter account) one of Wings objectives as “media monitoring. Because someone’s got to watch the watchmen.”
       
      While people infer other motives for highlighting these comments, I admire the Rev for sticking at doing what he says he seeks to do!!

    57. Ron Burgundy says:

       
      This on top of the applause and cheering in the Lancaster edition of Question Time when the suggestion came from the audience that nuclear waste should dumped in Scotland.
      Then the Have I Got News For You casual racism directed at Scots and the gales of laughter from the metropolitan English audience.
      They really hate us don’t they – time to end a dysfunctional relationship next September

    58. a supporter says:

      balgayboy
      Well done the British Lions BTW.
      Well thank you for ruining my afternoon! I had copied that match to watch later.
       

    59. Dcanmore says:

      Just wait when Scotland plays England at Wembley next month!
       
      Living and working in London the only time I get negative ‘quips’ regarding the right-wing view on Scotland and the referendum seems to come from middle-class royalists and imperialists. But then again most of these people that I encounter are really frightened Home County Little Englanders and that fear is exacerbated by the right-wing press, it’s all doom and gloom on every street corner. Part of what is fearful to them is Scottish Independence, they believe it won’t happen not because they are insightful and educated on the subject, it is because it’s just unthinkable that Scottish Independence would happen. So to stay in the comfort zone Scottish Independence is ridiculed, Alex Salmond is nothing but a joke and the whole thing will pass uneventfully with the Independence vote trounced. That is the unshakeable belief of these people. They are looking for an English middle class hero and that is where Nigel Farage/UKIP come in even though realistically they are a nightmare party, but that is not point, he is one of THEM.
      However another side of the fear factor is the hate dished out to Andy Murray, these are the nuckle-draggers of British Nationalism, or really English Nationalism dressed up as Brit Nat because the butcher’s apron still represents imperialistic ambitions, especially through the armed forces (just look at the pro-military programmes on the BBC these days). The Union flag is essentially the flag of Greater England to the haters. These people are frustrated by life in general and are looking for hate figures to vent their anger at. The only reason Andy Murray gets it in the neck so much is because he is very successful and not being English of any description, he’s not one of THEM. Andy Murray is seen as a sign of English failure and will never be accepted by certain people.

    60. balgayboy says:

      Can someone please tell me who the f**k Gordon Aikman is? what is he? has he had real job in his life or is he just another BT BS merchant? Never heard or read about this guy before, seems to have crawled out the woodwork!

    61. Gordon Bain says:

      It’ll be interesting to read everyone’s opinions tomorrow if he does win and then proceeds to wrap himself in the Union flag. There will certainly be people court-side all to willing to provide the rag for him.
      Hail Caesar!.

    62. kininvie says:

      Nationalism – ethnic, not civic, is weird stuff, and very dangerous – just look at the Balkans. And does anyone honestly claim we aren’t capable of being as chauvanistic and racist as anyone else? I’ve heard comments on the doorsteps of central Scotland that would not disgrace the BNP. And we are more than capable of adding religion to the heady mix, as I was reminded today.
       
      So I agree with Braco – don’t give it a platform – whether it’s ‘them’ or ‘us’. You have a readership of 50,000. Maybe fifty people comment. That’s a lot of silent people – and you simply can’t tell what effect your post has by way of hardening prejudice.

    63. Dcanmore says:

      If Andy wins tomorrow the BBC will make sure there will be a Union flag nearby for him to be draped in for the cameras, to be televised ad nauseam.

    64. Peter Swain says:

      @Archie
      You’re making the common mistake of confusing the Yes Scotland (all-party) campaign with Alex Salmond and the SNP.  They both want the same outcome, but they are not one and the same !  Do your homework !

    65. I have always found this type of Scot hating to be pretty typical of the majority of English people. Most will not say it to your face, but don’t leave the room! Also I equate the jokey calling me a “jock”, as a racist remark. What are we going to call these people in return as a joke? “Herberts”?, Slapheads? Pillocks? Calling everyone who speaks with any Scottish accent a “jock” is to ignore the person and turn them into a member of a not so intelligent minority group, and try to dehumanise them like they called Africans fighting imperialism, “fuzzy wuzzies” or every black or brown skinned person the dreaded “N” word. It is not on and is an insult to a nation.

    66. Jim Mitchell says:

      Let’s see if the lad wins first, anything else, we can take from there.
      As for the comments, we should use them by making sure that as many of our countrymen and  women know at about them as possible, the REV has done us all a favour by printing them for us, but it’s up to us what we do with them, it’s also the best way of sticking it to the opposition as well, tactics folks, tactics, we don’t have to descend to their level but we can use the stuff against them.

    67. Atypical_Scot says:

      @ balgayboy;
       
      All the other stuff is fluff. 
       
      Pretty thorny fluff. Do you sleep on a bed of nails?

    68. Braco says:

      Richard Bruce,
      ‘I have always found this type of Scot hating to be pretty typical of the majority of English people.’  Really?!
       
      ‘Also I equate the jokey calling me a “jock”, as a racist remark.’ Again, really?! Oh and it’s not anything like the ‘N’ word.
       
      It can be unpleasant and it can also be a term of endearment depending on who is saying it. Anyway, they can call me what they like, just keep your hands off my free education, my NHS and my daughter (it’s a joke! smily) etc. etc……….
       

    69. Braco says:

      kininvie,
      very well put.

    70. Murray McCallum says:

      @Braco
      keep your hands off my …….. my daughter.
      I have 2 daughters (15 and 17).  If they have boys round I find that sharpening my chainsaw on the dining table while playing Echelon’s Song by my favorite choir makes an impression.

    71. a supporter says:

      Rev Stu
      I re-emphasise, keep doing what you are doing vis a vis publicising the abominable anti-Scottish racism on Twitter and on places like the Spectator, Telegraph and other outlets in the English media. Many, many of us support what you are doing. Eventually the main media will get the message. And in the event we get any more nonsense like the Calman or Ian Gray affair it will give us a stick with which to fight back. In the meantime it lets anyone who is uncommitted to Independence but who comes here to read the articles and comments see just how bad the Unionists are with their racism and anti-Scottish views. And even more important to realise that it goes unreported in the Scottish media including the BBC.

    72. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Any more of this type of ‘proof’ will, in my view, only breed rancour.”

      “We won’t do any more of these after this one, honest”

      I wouldn’t have bothered with this one if it was just a repeat of the other day’s. This one was making a different point, specifically about the bullshit spouted by “Better Together” even in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

      As for the general point about BritNat abuse never being reported by the press, I reserve the right to keep highlighting it until it changes. If we’ve learned anything in the past 18 months or so, it’s that if we keep hammering at stuff eventually it gets results.

      Independence isn’t called “separation” in the UK parliament any more. The Scottish media has had to start grudgingly reporting about BT’s scaremongering. That stuff didn’t just happen. It happened because we – and I don’t just mean this site – kept on about it, over and over, until the message got out so widely that it was no longer credible to ignore it.

      Also: like it or not, these pieces get some of our highest traffic. And our job is to reach people. It’s no good taking the WetNat approach of being all nicey-nicey all the time so you get plaudits from your wee social club for writing intellectual think pieces for an audience of 50.

      Wednesday’s piece has already had – by a comfortable distance – the most pageviews of any post in the last 30 days (about 25,000). Some posts I personally consider much worthier have struggled to manage a third of that.

      As with writing about football occasionally, anything that brings thousands of extra pairs of eyeballs is invaluable, because we can’t afford to preach only to the converted.

      Some people will take away a reinforced anti-English prejudice. That’s thoroughly depressing and not the intention (some of the Twitter exchanges I’ve found myself @ed into as a result of the RTs are grim stuff on both sides), but they had those feelings anyway.

      What’s important are the other people who come to read some abuse but then stick around to read the more positive, intelligent stuff, and the stats show that they far outnumber the people who quail in horror at the odd grittier post.

      We’re in a fight here, and a world title bout at that. Even if we’re the good guys and we play by the Marquis of Queensberry rules while our opponent hits below the belt, we still have to throw punches sometimes. If you can’t stand the sight of blood, look away.

    73. Braco says:

      Murray McCallum,
      I am sorry to have to say this, but in my experience (probably yours too) nature always finds a way!
      But keep fighting that good fight!

    74. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Oh, and I hope Andy doesn’t pick up any flags if he wins tomorrow too. It’s a lose-lose for him if he does, and the lad’s got enough on his shoulders.

    75. Braco,
      Yes really, I have worked in France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and England and apart from being called “english”, (the worst insult), by many of the europeans, the most hostile reception I have ever received was in English cities. Don’t get me wrong, not all English people, but a majority were ready to insult me at the drop of a hat. Stupid Jock was one and “you know they are alright on their own, but get a group of them and they are trouble”, was one aside I overheard on return from a WC visit in the Trent Bridge Inn in Nottingham. So, OK I’ll meet you half way, only 50% of them are hostile!

    76. balgayboy says:

      Atypical_Scot says:
      6 July, 2013 at 3:33 pm

      @ balgayboy;@3.33
      Slept in a few strange beds all over the world and sometimes not through personal choice I may add. The “fluff” I was referring to was the nonsensical debate about a tremendous sportsman who should not be shunted into a political argument because of his country of birth. Also I prefer a nice soft mattress manufactured by my local Scottish Blind Craft company. Hope that explains my position.
       

    77. The Man in the Jar says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell
      At 3:53pm
      Quite Fecking right!
      Everyone should bear in mind that if Andy Murray was from any other country in the world what would be the reaction?

    78. Shinty says:

      a supporter
      Oh stop it. Your cringe is showing.
       
      Actually no, our biggest problem in achieving independence for Scotland comes from Scottish unionists – you might have missed it, but the people of England don’t get a vote in the referendum. (unless they are residents of Scotland)
      Just because you ‘dislike’ the English, don’t expect us all to feed into your bigotry.
       

    79. O/T.. Sorry, has anyone commented on the front page of the Herald today? Falkirk has a small item at the bottom of the page and the story buried on page 6, no editorial comment.  Hear no evil, see no evil………… etc etc.

    80. The Man in the Jar says:

      I don’t follow Twitter (yet) or athletics So can anyone tell me if there was anything similar regarding Usian Bolt from Jamaica (a British colony till 1962 and still part of the Commonwealth) during the Olympics?

    81. Jimbo says:

      From the link in the above article: 
      Simon Johnson ?@simon_telegraph
      20 Jun
      Salmond ignores fact Scotland’s population ageing much quicker & is predicted to have a higher dependency ratio than RUK
       
      What? Do Scots age quicker than everyone else in rUK? Are we like dogs – an rUK year is the equivalent to seven years for a Scot?
       
      Maybe Mr. Johnson could do an article on why many Scots fail to reach pension age (Johnson’s dependency ratio) in this unequal union presided over by his beloved Westminster?

    82. Braco says:

      Rev Stu,
      thanks for the reply.

      I am no wetNat or fainter! My simple point is that in ‘throwing this punch’ we damage nobody but ourselves. Imagine you achieve the goal of shaming the MSM into acknowledging that ‘England’ is as bad as they have painted ‘us’, because that’s about as good as you could hope for, from the quality of press we suffer.
       
      Well then, what do you have? A population in Scotland with a media telling them they are in fact hated by the ‘English’. Not totally infertile ground I am sad to say. Are they? In my experience, no. Are you finding life intolerable? 
       
      The ‘English’ press have been at this for years (the main reason behind the stupid vitriol at the heart of this article) and you will definitely not impact them.
       
      I repeat, this is about the type of society we want to create and not about Independence. It is of course your site and I am in no way second guessing your abilities or questioning your motivations, just posting my view and opinion.

    83. balgayboy says:

       
      a supporter says:@ 3.05
      My apologies, I wrongly thought the score was worldwide, never realised that anyone was waiting to watch the game unknown of the outcome.

    84. CEMarshall says:

      Seeing the past two days Andy Murray feeds makes me glad I don’t have a Twit-ter account.

    85. Peter says:

         It’s the same denialist bilge about nobody every calling Murray Scottish when he loses.  Except there was a dirty great big article in the Grainyard after last year’s US Open victory making the revolting claim that Andy Murray was no longer Scottish but British.
        Anybody who has ever reas any of the comment threads on the EBC or any newspaper site since Murray first broke through will have seen millions of racist comments posted. Could anybody explain why a Scotsman was forced to abandon his Saltire sweatbands other than through the britnat prejudice?
       

    86. Boorach says:

      Now it may just be me but each and every one of those tweets or wahtever they’re called refer personally to Andy. All of that bile is being poured on the individual and not (except by association) the country of his birth.
       
      I personally dislike Beckham, I don’t know why, there is just something about the man that rubs me up the wrong way. Perhaps it’s the way anyone selected to play for England automatically, in the eyes of the MSM is lauded as being more than simply world class and Beckham was never that good!
       
      However, both Andy and David are supreme athletes, have spent numberless hours honing their respective skills and have undoubtedly suffered through endless hours of work in the gym to get where they are today.
       
      I docn’t do twitter and if I did I wouldn’t put the sort of invective displayed above out there for the world to read with the name of my worst enemy far less my own attached to it.
       
      Those that do are the dregs of the internet, have very likely done absolutely nothing with their lives to date and probably never will going through the rest of their days begrudging the success of others and not understanding that that success has been hard won.
       
      Thanks Rev for publishing the tweets I only hope that you have also drawn the attention of our one sided media and those at project fear HQ to them as well.
       
      Rant over…… carry on.

    87. Taranaich says:

      Regarding the Murray flag conundrum, I think there are two ways about it: 1) no flag at all, 2) pick up a Union Flag AND a Saltire and drape them both over his shoulders, 3) pick up a flag from another country. You never know, maybe an overenthusiastic Estonian thought it was worth a shot!

    88. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Taranaich
      No flags but a YES Scotland logo board. Now that would put the cat amongst the pidgins!

    89. theycan'tbeserious says:

      The “Bawbag” is a legitimate target in war!

    90. Braco says:

      Richard Bruce,
      I have lived abroad too. My point is, will it help or hurt our cause to inadvertently encourage similar chauvinism among our population? Is it really impossible for you to imagine an Englishman suffering a similar overheard comment on the way back from the toilet in Glasgow for example. Does widespread dissemination of these kind of tweets make that more or less likely?
       
      It’s my view that we must always be on our guard and try to work for the best society we possibly can. That society, to me, does not include this stuff.  That’s all

    91. Big Jock says:

      It’s very sad and says so much about the English nation that they feel threatened by someone who expresses their own identity.We often here commentators saying Murray has one the Wimbledon fans over.He had to stop being overtly Scottish to do this.Similar to Gordon Brown in a sense.Why can’t he just be Scottish and waive the St Andrews cross.Why SHOUL he pander to their insecurity by waiving the Union Jack.I think unfortunately that he will clutch the Union flag if he wins.Not because he wants to but because he would feel uncomfortable in that crowd of Little Englanders waiving any other flag.I wish he was braver but he has been got to like most Scots south of the border I.E Alex Ferguson.Being Scottish automatically means you don’t like the English that’s just the way it is down there.This year the Union flags at Wimbledon have drowned out the Scottish flags 10 /1 and that’s the way it is.Andy is a great guy but I am disappointed he hasn’t stuck to his beliefs in public.

    92. Vronsky says:

      What Braco says.  I understand the point you’re making but stop reporting these cunts.  We know they’re there, they’ll always be there, they don’t matter, ignore them.  You’re building a really strong case for ignoring Twitter as well, by the way, which I don’t think you wanted to do.

    93. Albert Herring says:

      Tennis is an individual sport, outside of Davis cup, Olympics, etc. What on earth have flags got to do with it?

    94. Joybell says:

      Do we really want a boring PC site? We aren’t likely to get one here. (Smiley face)
       
      People will always take umbrage at something.  Dads Army got annoyed at a Rangers article and never came back.  If you are out there Dads Army please come back.  I miss you.

    95. Jiggsbro says:

      Tennis is an individual sport
       
      The only individual sports are those without spectators.

    96. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “My point is, will it help or hurt our cause to inadvertently encourage similar chauvinism among our population?”

      Nobody is encouraging any such thing. I’m done debating this now.

    97. Archibald Berwick Melrose [aka Archie] says:

      @ Peter 3:17pm – I think you meant your observation for Marker Post not for me. Its ok I worked that one out.

    98. Ken Mcneil says:

      Your right Albert. Andy is playing for himself, he hasn’t been picked to represent a country. He certainly shouldn’t pick up a flag unless it’s a saltire. If he picks up a UJ we’ll never hear the end of it from the unionists. If Tim Henman had won Wimbledon would any of us been in the slightest bit bothered if he had waived a St G flag?

    99. Shinty says:

      I think there are too many folk hung up on whether Andy Murray pulls on a Saltire or union flag. Like most of us here I am a huge fan, but let’s get real, until Scotland is independent he will have little choice in the matter.
      Now is not the time unless it suits him, not us.

    100. Jiggsbro says:

      My point is, will it help or hurt our cause to inadvertently encourage similar chauvinism among our population?
       
      Anyone who’s going to hate the English because a few morons on Twitter hate Murray probably doesn’t need any encouragement to be a bigot. They’re 90% of the way there already and if it wasn’t this that brought out their imbecilic racism, it would have been something else.

    101. Atypical_Scot says:

      Why grab any flag when the choice has now become a political statement and he is a sportsman?

    102. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Richard Bruce et al
       
      The French want no-one to be their superior. The English want inferiors. The Frenchman constantly raises his eyes above him with anxiety. The Englishman lowers his beneath him with satisfaction.
       
      Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville (29 July 1805 – 16 April 1859)
       
       

    103. Braco says:

      Rev Stu and Jiggsboro,
      My ‘similar chauvinism’ line referred to the type of comment and attitude Richard Bruce suffered on his way back from the toilet in an English pub. I don’t think people will suddenly become racists from reading these idiotic tweets, but a widespread feeling of being hated or antagonism between countries is exactly the scenario that allows that unfortunate group mentality to flourish. 
      Rev, I accused you of no such thing. I said ‘Inadvertently’ along with a whole lot of other couching terms. You sound quite touchy unless you claim infallibility! Is the Pope a Rev?
      I am done too.

    104. HandandShrimp says:

      The original twitter that started this thread was a wonderful denial of the whole concept of being Scottish. However, if you believe Scotland was abolished in 1707 as Mundel does then it is hardly a surprise. Presumably Aikman is equally embarrassed by the concept of a Scotland existing.

    105. orkers says:

      joybell
      I get annoyed by it as well, but I’m still here because the content is mostly excellent.
      Dads Army must be a bit of a woos. Comments hurt briefly, but you must keep coming back and resist being ground down. ‘Sticks and stones’ and so on.

    106. Braco says:

      Bugger (the panda),
      did the French not have an empire then? Ho, Ho.

    107. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Scots DG Ps & Ds. We had big Jock and wee Jock. Jock being used instead of John and 30 years on they are still called that. O aye and there was young Jock but no old Jock.
      Found a lot of english to be small minded and petty in general with no idea about scotland or it’s people other than what they see on tv.
      If you want to upset them then ask this. What is black and eats fish and chips….. Over half the population of England.
       

    108. Dorothy Devine says:

      I didn’t see the young French lady draping herself in the French tricolour ,so why do we even need to discuss flag draping?
      Over my many years watching Wimbledon no one has ever draped themselves in a national flag and since they are playing for themselves they are not representing any country – so no saltire and no union flag ,but I’d like him to wear his saltire sweat bands since I understood them to be lucky mascots!
      Good luck young Mr Murray!

    109. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I have no idea what you are trying to say about de Tocqueville and a French Empire?
       
      I think you will find the forementioned De Tooqueville quite and interesting historical figure.
       
      He was involved in the American Independence movement and was also quite literally acerbic about the French as well as the Americans in his letters and essays.

    110. ianbrotherhood says:

      Here’s a nice snap of Johann Lamont swearing.
      Please also check out the apt ad on the same page.
       
      http://twitpic.com/d15zf3

    111. muttley79 says:

      @Shinty
       
      Actually no, our biggest problem in achieving independence for Scotland comes from Scottish unionists – you might have missed it, but the people of England don’t get a vote in the referendum. (unless they are residents of Scotland)
       
      Bullseye.  On Gordon Aikman’s comments: these are just indicative of a fair number of British Nationalists in Scotland, who put much more priority on criticising anything Salmond in particular says, no matter how inoffensive, than saying anything positive about Scotland.  No wonder they themselves call their campaign against independence “project fear.”    

    112. Jiggsbro says:

      I don’t think people will suddenly become racists from reading these idiotic tweets, but a widespread feeling of being hated or antagonism between countries is exactly the scenario that allows that unfortunate group mentality to flourish.
       
      What allows it to flourish is a society (big or small) that does not condemn it. Everything else is just an attempt to justify the attitude. Holding those attitudes up to ridicule does not – even inadvertently – encourage those attitudes in others. All it can do is provide another spurious justification, of which there are plenty elsewhere, for pre-existing attitudes. That pre-existing attitude would always find something to justify itself and because it’s an irrational attitude, there’s no rationale in the identification of justification.

    113. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Jiggbsbro-
      ‘That pre-existing attitude would always find something to justify itself and because it’s an irrational attitude, there’s no rationale in the identification of justification.’
      =

      ‘No-one likes us. We don’t care.’

      ‘We’re up to the knees in Fenian blood.’

      ‘Britons never ever ever shall be slaves.’

      ‘Andy Murray? Cunt!’

       
      etc…etc…yawn…

    114. faltdubh says:

      This flag waving stop is quite new isn’t it? With footballers who win cups for their club side.
      I can’t see him bringing out any flags, but if it was to be one, I imagine it’ll be a British Union one – to keep his ”Tiger Tim” brigade on side too.
       

    115. Rod Mac says:

      I am sure this anti Scottish bile will be the lead story in all the Sunday Papers and BBC Scotland.
      I mean they showed with Ms Calman and Sir Chris Hoy  they expose even alleged racist comments.
      This Anti Scottishness must be confronted by Better Together and Johann Lamont must bring these people into line

    116. Patrick Roden says:

      Just a thought, but did anyone else think that Len McCluskeys comments a few weeks ago about Milliband being seduced by the wispers of Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander not have an element of:
      ‘Hey middle England, Labours still full of Jocks and it was all the Jocks fault that we are in this mess’
      Believe me, Gordon Brown was fully aware that it isn’t just a tiny majority of daft twitterers that are Anti-Scottish in England, it goes deeper than that and can be traced back to when the Tories were in the Political wilderness and needed something to hit Labour with.
      They used the ‘Full of Jocks and they are siphoning English money off to Jockland’ type comments and it built resentment.
      So keep it up Rev, as these comments help show us just what the Westminster establishment genuinely thinks of us.
       
      maybe a little historical article to show how the Anti-Scottish seeds were planted by Camerons Party back in the Nineties, would be useful for our occasional visitors?

    117. Shinty says:

      Ianbrotherhood
      Here’s a nice snap of Johann Lamont swearing.
      Would seem that Johann & Ruth have a lot more in common than just jackets. The good Rev. had a similar picture of Ms. Davidson not so long ago. – sorry can’t remember which article it appeared in.

    118. Jiggsbro says:

      @ianbrotherhood
       
      As is so often the case, I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

    119. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Shinty-
       
      You wouldn’t want to face JoLa on a Friday night with a burst wage-packet, that’s for sure – a box of Black Magic wouldny cut it.

    120. Peninsula says:

      Our problem isn’t the English, and anyway, lets be honest, everyone knows they can be racist and xenophobic as fuck. It’s no secret.
       
      Nope, our problem is the pet jocks. One divided country soon.  Scotland has been bluffing about being a country for years. Time to show our hand. 

    121. Doug Daniel says:

      Patrick Roden – no, he was simply referring to the Blairite tendencies of two of the highest ranking members of the Labour party. That they both happen to be Scottish is just a coincidence. 
       
      I really don’t think we should be looking for anti-Scottish sentiment where it doesn’t exist. If anything, we should just be embarrassed slightly that two of the biggest morons in the Labour party come from Scotland! 

    122. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Jiggsbro-
       
      I was agreeing with the highlighted statement.
       
      The ‘yawn’ is not referring to your post, but the random examples of bottomless idiocy cited.

    123. Murray McCallum says:

      I tell you it makes me proud to see everyone pulling together in the search for Johann Lamont. The search through social media regardless of political party, religion, opinion on flags, or view on dependence is a credit to our once nation.

    124. Braco says:

      Jiggsboro,
      pre existing attitudes come from somewhere, are formed and can be changed. They can be reinforced or undermined also. That is language and politics. Otherwise what are we all doing in this movement?

    125. Craig P says:

      Patrick Rodden – if Len McClusky doesn’t trust Jim Murphy or Douglas Alexander I consider that sound judgement on his part…

    126. muttley79 says:

      @Peninsula
       
      Our problem isn’t the English, and anyway, lets be honest, everyone knows they can be racist and xenophobic as fuck. It’s no secret.
      What a great comment…Make a massive generalisation about tens of millions of people.  It is not as if some Scottish people are not racist and xenophobic either eh.

    127. Marcia says:

      In tomorrow’s Sunday Herald:
       
      It’s the story we broke and the rest of the press is only catching up with now – read a special 5-page report on the fall-out from Falkirk

    128. Jiggsbro says:

      pre existing attitudes come from somewhere, are formed and can be changed. They can be reinforced or undermined also. That is language and politics. Otherwise what are we all doing in this movement?
       
      True. But we’re talking about irrational attitudes, which are formed irrationally and cannot be changed by rational argument. What reinforces them or undermines them is not determined rationally. The tweets above would not cause anti-English racism in anyone. They could only – at worst – be a focus for the expression of pre-existing racism. The capacity for such irrational thought must exist prior to the expression of it and the irrational thought patterns must exist prior to them having an object. That is, people think in a racist way before they focus their racism on any particular group. Racism – like religion – isn’t responsive to rational argument, because it isn’t rational. It’s immune to ‘language and politics’.

    129. Marcia says:

      Also in the Sunday Herald:
      A special 6-page report into Project Fear and the battle for independence. Which side are you on? Better Together or the Yes Campaign …

    130. muttley79 says:

      ‘What a great comment…Make a massive generalisation about tens of millions of people.  It is not as if some Scottish people are not racist and xenophobic either eh.’
       
      That should be of course ‘it is not as if some Scottish people are racist and xenophobic either.’  (Sarcastic face, did not get chance to edit it).

    131. Tris says:

      In any case…it’s not Mr Salmond’s job to be speaking on behalf of the UK. (Some would even dispute his right to speak for Scotland, but most would agree that the most senior politician in the country, by tradition, has that right.)
       
      For Salmond to say that the whole of the UK will be cheering Murray, would be like Mr Cameron saying that the whole of Europe will be doing cheering on the British team.
       
      Presumptuous in the extreme. But hey, don’t let that get in the way of a cheap jibe Bitter Together.

    132. Linda's back says:

      The supine Scottish press corp eager to diss Cybernatz but impose Omerta wall of silence when Yes supporters / Andy Murray are subjected to vile abuse.
      Don’t expect MSM to expose Blairites equally shabby activities in Falkirk as this doesn’t conform to Labour’s spin doctors attempt to show Milliband standing up to the Unions.

    133. The Man in the Jar says:

      I just turned the telly on and thought Bitter Together had paid for a new advert until I realised that I was watching a movie. “V for Vendetta” they should use that speech by John Hurt  “What we need right now is a clear message to the people of this country. I want every man woman  child to understand how close we are to chaos. I want everyone to remember why they need us!” the speech it fits project fear perfectly.

    134. Jiggsbro says:

      O/T, but the Rev tweeted a link to a year-old article with an interesting picture:
       
      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-wrong-lizards/
       
      Is this the first sighting of the uniform?

    135. Dennis Smith says:

      Rev. Stu @ 3.53
      As an occasional author of what I fear may be “intellectual think-pieces”, can I suggest that there’s no need for an either/or here.  In any campaign, different messages need to be targeted at different audiences (good journalistic practice, surely).  Varied approaches can reach a wider demographic.
      There’s plenty of polling evidence that Yes support is disproportionately weak among the old, the better off and the well-educated, who are also disproportionately likely to turn out and vote.  Some of these people will be turned off by what they see as strident insults and sweary words.  Some (not all, obviously) may respond favourably to balanced argument that sets out the pros and cons and then comes to a clear conclusion.  Worth trying, surely?

    136. Braco says:

      jiggsboro,
      Scotland is a very different country from when I was a boy, in both religious and racial attitudes. How on earth did that happen if neither of these belief structures are ‘– responsive to rational argument, because it isn’t rational. It’s immune to ‘language and politics’.’ ?
       
      Can I ask you seriously again, what good will our movement, or any social movement do if what you say is true? Why post here if not to influence folks attitudes? Why campaign if not to try and influence society to change these irrational and damaging pre formed attitudes?
       
      I know change is possible as I have lived through it, but change in a direction that you want requires effort and consistency, personal, political and social. I think all sides, good and bad, understand this.

    137. Murray McCallum says:

      Jiggsbro
      Raise your 09Jun’12 to 03Apr’12.  My source with publish date http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/portglasgow/articles/2012/04/03/426546-labour-launch-manifesto/#
      Once we have arrived at date we must confirm forensics – is it the same jacket!

    138. faltdubh says:

      Jimbo
      I agree that the posts about Murray were pretty awful, but although I am by no means a BBC Scotlandshire fan, I don’t think they could report on it – you type anything into Twitter and you’ll find some one running their mouth about. Be it from Murray abuse, to casual Polish racism directed at Janowicz last night, etc.
      The Murray abuse is very ugly, I think it just highlights how much we have grown as a nation since devolution. Of course many of us cheer on England’s opponents in football and so on, but it’s 90 mins and it’s never as awful as some of the stuff on there.
      I see it with my Irish pal all the time – just how confident Independent people are.

       
      Hopefully we’ll see a Yes in 2014.

    139. Marcia says:

      Sunday Herald wrap around:
      http://twitpic.com/d17r9k

    140. Marcia says:

      Sunday Herald’s front page:
      http://twitpic.com/d17roc
       
      Where is Sandy Shaw ?- she can sing ‘Puppet on a String’

    141. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As an occasional author of what I fear may be “intellectual think-pieces”, can I suggest that there’s no need for an either/or here. In any campaign, different messages need to be targeted at different audiences (good journalistic practice, surely). Varied approaches can reach a wider demographic.”

      I agree completely. Which is why this site doesn’t set out to ape National Collective or Bella Caledonia or Newsnet. They each do their own types of thing, we do another, hopefully covering all bases between us in the process.

      “Some of these people will be turned off by what they see as strident insults and sweary words. Some (not all, obviously) may respond favourably to balanced argument that sets out the pros and cons and then comes to a clear conclusion. Worth trying, surely?”

      That’s really quite an extraordinarily insulting way to talk about the 1,270+ articles that have appeared on this site, of which I think TWO have contained swearwords and a similar number “strident abuse”, set against what I believe is an unparallelled commitment to reasoned arguments and cited, sourced evidence. In fact, I’m going to stop typing now before I get any angrier about it.

    142. Braco says:

      Dennis Smith,
      plenty of “intellectual think-pieces” on WOS! Your tone seems very condescending.

    143. Murray McCallum says:

      Is an “occasional author” a comfortable, yet fairly fancy, piece of furniture one writes one’s memoirs at?

    144. Doug Daniel says:

      I’m really hopeful Murray’s match will be a 5 set thriller tomorrow, so that it doesn’t matter that I’ll miss the first two hours of the match.

    145. Jiggsbro says:

      How on earth did that happen if neither of these belief structures are ‘– responsive to rational argument, because it isn’t rational
       
      I didn’t mention belief structures. Societal attitudes – what is permissible to express – are not necessarily a reflection of individual beliefs. Society changes. Individual’s change. But the irrational thinking behind – for example – racism does not. It simply adapts its expression to societal demands.
       
      Can I ask you seriously again, what good will our movement, or any social movement do if what you say is true?
       
      Well, if all social movements were intended to change irrational beliefs, then they’d fail. If they were intended to change societal attitudes to exclude expression of irrational beliefs, they fare a little better. If  – as is actually the case – they have a whole range of aims, few of which are connected to changing people’s irrational thought patterns, then their success varies with innumerable factors. Can I ask you seriously: do you think all ‘social movements’ are about nothing but tackling irrational thinking?
       
      I know change is possible as I have lived through it
       
      Have you changed from an irrational thought process to a rational process? I’m not denying the possibility of change per se. I’m pointing out the futility of treating irrational thought as though it were rational. You cannot make a racist into a non-racist by rational argument.

    146. Dennis Smith says:

      Rev. Stu – sorry, my second paragraph obviously came across the wrong way.  It was not meant as an attack on Wings, just as a plea for diversity and a defence of the kind of stuff I write myself.  I’ve a great admiration for the incisiveness and accuracy of your own writing, and no objection to ‘sweary words’ used for the right purpose.  I wasn’t attributing stridency to you but to some of the material you quote.  I need to learn to express myself better.

    147. Edulis says:

      Wasn’t it one of the original advocates of the Scotland Party in the 1930s who identified that the real problem wasn’t the English, it was those Scots who would keep Scotland in thrall to Westminster for their own advantage.

    148. Marcia says:

      Edulis:
      I think it was Oliver Brown who said that.

    149. Eilif says:

      And if the leader of Dumfries and Galloway Council had praised David Coulthard on his achievement of getting to the point of challenging for Formula 1 World Champion in the final Grand Prix and said “All Dumfries and Galloway will be cheering you on” would anyone have batted an eyelid?
      Indeed would Gordon Aikman react to the chairman of Dunblane community council saying “Everyone in Dunblane will be cheering you on”; or the Provost of Stirling Council saying “All Stirlingshire will be cheering you on”; or the headmaster of his old school saying “All the pupils here will be cheering you on”?
      I doubt it. So what’s different about Alex Salmond, as leader of SCOTLAND, saying all Scotland will be cheering you on? Ah of course, constitutional politics. So that’s what Gordon Aikman thinks the Wimbledon Final will be all about – loyalty to the Union Jack instead of the milestone in Andy Murray’s career.
      Well, GOOD LUCK ANDY and all of Britain and Ireland will be cheering you on, time you had the luck of the Irish too!

    150. pictishbeastie says:

      Keep up the good work Rev. I appreciate, and enjoy, what you do and personally take the view that if people don’t like what you have to say, and the way you say it, then there’s plenty of other places for them to go. 

    151. Chic McGregor says:

      Some posts above seem to imply that ‘everybody knows’ that anti-Scottish comments by some English folk abound on the internet.  Well I’m sorry, I disagree.  IMV what most people ‘know’, courtesy of an establishment media, is the exact opposite, that nasty cybernats are by far the worst in attacking the poor innocent English.
       
      That perversion of the truth simply has to be challenged and what better way than to give a litany of examples.  Let the U-pack produce one to back their case, if they can.
       
      Well done Rev. 

    152. john king says:

      “On the subject of Andy Murray, I really wish he’d get another girlfriend. The Kim Sears lassie always gives it that horrible “oh yah, come on chaps, jolly good” kind of look when cheering him on.”
       
      Are you effin serious, there are guys (including me) who would kill to have a burd (sorry girls) as fit as that she is one hot chick 🙂

    153. john king says:

      braco says @1.47
      inclined to agree with you braco 

    154. john king says:

      I cant for the life of me understand why these people arnt being visited by the police, the offensive nature of their comments cannot be considered reasonable under any existing law ,be it racism, offensive language , hate crime law, by any standard these people in my estimation have committed a crime and should be brought to book 
       
      does twitter not have a policy to prevent such vile comments, or does anything go?
      if there is such a policy might I suggest they start implementing it, and begin by reporting messrs G Foulkes and  Ian Smart, but likewise whats sauce for the goose, if any yes supporter is guilty of such abuse then he/she also should face punishment

    155. john king says:

      kininvie says 
      ” You have a readership of 50,000. Maybe fifty people comment. ”
       
      ulp, err hello everybody (wee wavy hand) my names john, why don’t you (not all at the same time) introduce yourselves (shit eating grin) 🙂

    156. john king says:

      From the link in the above article: “Salmond ignores fact Scotland’s population ageing much quicker & is predicted to have a higher dependency ratio than RUK” 
      Kinda proves the point that the Westminster one size fits all immigration policy is not right for Scotland doesn’t it? 

      cleaned up the cite tag crap rev,
      see what you mean though, its a mess,
      that’s the answer guys, go back in and edit your post if you’ve linked to another persons post citing them and you’ll see what the rev means

    157. john king says:

      jiggsboro says 
      “The only individual sports are those without spectators.”
       
      ooh err missus 🙂

    158. john king says:

      shinty says 
      “until Scotland is independent he will have little choice in the matter.”
       
      really? since when did we live in a police state?
      Andy is his own man and I don’t really think the public’s view of what flag (if any ) he should choose to shoulder matters one jot to him,
       besides he’s got to win the damn thing first, no mean feat against the world number one 

    159. john king says:

      I remember back in the eighties I was working on a site for the F.A.A. near Hayward’s heath in East Sussex,
      Anyway, it was a long term job and the digs I found myself in were, well idyllic, and because I raved about how beautiful it was there my wife decided to pay a (surprise) visit just to see how her other half lived when he was away from home (just wished all my digs had been as lovely as that place). 
      We went out for the evening the day she arrived and went to a local pub. 
      a crowd of (not so young) people sitting near us started mimicking our accents and this really upset my wife badly ,it almost ruined our time together, the behaviour of those people I personally would have ignored as I had experienced it so often that it was not even something I would have let bother me, but after my wife’s (too short visit) I resolved to never again allow such ignorant behaviour go unremarked
       the pain she felt was obvious to me and it was distressing to see her so upset by stupid people who  were not worth the bother, and going by their accents and presentation were not short of a bob or two, which just goes to prove having money doesnt automatically imply class.

    160. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John
       
      I live in France and at least four different people at different times have expressed support to me for Andy Murray.
       
      Inevitably they comment on the boorish behaviour of the crowd in supporting him and, here’s the rub, their lack of sportsmanship for anyone he is playing.
       
      It wouldn’t happen at Roland Garros, if a French player was on court. Support yes but also for the opponent.
       
      ChavsRUS seems to be the predominent culture darn souf, these days.
       
      The English, as a people have always had arrogance and, let us be honest, more than a streak of racism in their culture.
       
      I would have thought with all the immigration and assimilation over the last 50 years it would have been diluted but it is still there and manifests itself in manner less direct.
       
      These range from the lewd posts about Andy Murray which, had Murray been black or a Muslim or a Jew would have been a race crime. They can get away with it to a white Scot.
       
      As for the expatriot Engelanders here, they are deeply racists and pine for an England, which probably never really existed except in Agatha Cristie novels. Once they get a few slugs in them at the dinner table it all comes pouring out , even from the ladies.
      I do not mix with them. I have no wish to be accepted in their cotterie. They really revolt me.
      On the other my best “friend” here is English but, born in Egypt and educated at Oxbridge. Diplomat, retired, with a German wife. A real product of the old Empire, of generations of service.
      He avoids that type I mentioned too.
      finally, there are millions of normal English men and women who do not share the views of the Chavs and Daily Mail subset. They are as much a victim of Britain’s post imperial death throws. The problem is, we cannot help them except by example. They have to take back their democracy from the Spiv criminals who will not give up the reins of power of Westminster.

    161. Macart says:

      Some stunning examples of humanity in that lot Rev. Wonder if they think they’re just having a laugh or whether they believe what they’re saying? Do they consider themselves to be good people, good friends, neighbours, family members? I wonder, do they look in a mirror and see a racist staring right back at them?
       
      I really do hope some of project fear’s team read your post. I suppose if they’re doing their job, they should be. This is the result of their government’s work, their tactics, their form of division. I also hope they have a few sleepless nights.

    162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Rev. Stu – sorry, my second paragraph obviously came across the wrong way. It was not meant as an attack on Wings, just as a plea for diversity and a defence of the kind of stuff I write myself. I’ve a great admiration for the incisiveness and accuracy of your own writing, and no objection to ‘sweary words’ used for the right purpose. I wasn’t attributing stridency to you but to some of the material you quote. I need to learn to express myself better.”

      Fair enough. But I think people can distinguish between what’s written and what’s quoted to illustrate a point.

    163. John Meffen says:

      Ha ha, this is actually quite funny, some people take things way too seriously.

    164. Holebender says:

      Has anyone else noticed the casual disrespect of Scottish culture shown in the advertising of two different online bingo sites in the past couple of weeks? Two different advertisements by two different companies depicting kilted Scotsmen in the act of exposing their genitals to onlookers. Would denigrating the culture of any other group by advertisers pass unremarked?

    165. Jimmy the pict says:

      The safe option for Andy if he wins today is to wrap himself in an Adidas towel

    166. Shinty says:

      John King
      Sorry John I should have clarified my statement, I was thinking more of his sponsors etc
       
      Anyhow, come on Andy looking forward to your 8th win against Djokovic

    167. Ruaridh Mac says:

      “”Andrew Barron “Andy” Murray, OBE (15 May, 1987),[3] is a Scottish professional tennis player””
      10 MINUTES LATER.
      “Andrew Barron “Andy” Murray, OBE (born 15 May 1987) is a British professional tennis player”
      IMPERIALISM AND HIJACKING AND DESTRUCTION OF ONES NATIONALITY AND STATE.

    168. Ruaridh Mac says:

      Never mind my last comment some kind person has changed his Wiki page back to Scottish! I had to create a Wiki account a while ago because someone kept changing Colin McRae’s nationality from Scottish to British.

    169. Tim says:

      Yawn. If you’re going to be such a pedant, then even Scotland wasn’t cheering for Andy Murray. There are, after all, plenty of people in Scotland who can’t be bothered with tennis.

    170. Ruaridh Mac says:

      SOME IMPERIALIST HAS CHANGED HIS WIKI PAGE TO BRITISH AGAIN DESPITE IT BEING ORIGINALLY SCOTTISH FOR YEARS!!!

    171. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Not many who call him a “Scotch cunt”, though.

    172. Tim says:

      I agree. Not many.
      In fact, I don’t reckon anyone at Centre Court was yelling “Scotch Cunt!”. Leastways I didn’t hear any.

    173. Iain More says:

      I personally like Andy Murrays girlfriend, there is just something about a fit looking slightly posh English girl. Okay so that is my kink. No wonder those English blokes or is it British blokes have lost the plot, it is the inevitable result when one thinks with ones scrota all the time. Well that and reading the Daily Mail and certain other rabidly xenophobic Brit Press publications and being subjected to hour after hour of Brit Nat drivel on TV here.
      It seems that the old Brit Imperialsit middle classess are not getting the education they once got. Whatever I digress as what i wanted to say is that there is a large ammount of penis envy amongst those tweeters ot twaters that you listed above.
      She really is a fit looking dame, lovely mouth and looks spirited as well! God I could hate him!
       



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