Bowled out by the softballs
Here’s David Mundell on Sunday Politics earlier today:
It’s a pretty uncomfortable time. But it could have been a lot worse.
Andrew Neil let Mundell get away several times with saying that Scots voted in 2014 while knowing that they’d subsequently be getting a referendum on EU membership. But as we’ve clearly established previously on this site, that’s complete nonsense. An EU referendum was conditional on a Tory majority in the 2015 general election, and in 2014 almost nobody thought that was going to happen.
According to UK Polling Report, in the month leading up to the indyref vote there were 39 polls of UK voting intention conducted. Exactly two of them gave the Tories a lead over Labour, both times of just a single point, with one dead heat. The other 36 all put Labour ahead, by as much as 8 points and with an average lead of 4%.
In late August 2014, bookies were making a Tory majority – the only outcome which would have guaranteed an EU referendum – a 3/1 long shot, with Ed Miliband favourite to be next PM:
The Tories had been at those odds or longer all year. In a televised debate a week later, just 16 days before the referendum, even Ruth Davidson made a point of saying that the Tories weren’t looking likely to win, and therefore an EUref was a long shot.
“It’s disingenuous of Patrick [Harvie] to say that No means out and Yes means in, when actually the opposite is true.
No means we stay in, we are members of the European Union. And yes, IF the Conservatives win the next election – which frankly isn’t looking likely by the polls, but we’re trying our best – we will allow people to have their say.”
So Mundell was flat-out lying when he told Andrew Neil – who’d questioned him in the context of “Better Together”, not the Conservatives – that:
“There was going to be an EU referendum, that was made very clear throughout that. People voted in Scotland, and voted decisively to remain part of the United Kingdom, in the full knowledge that there would be an EU referendum.”
When Neil put it to him once more that the No vote had been won “on the assumption we would also remain part of the EU”, Mundell lied again:
“No, I don’t accept that analysis, people were aware that there was going to be a vote on whether the United Kingdom remained in the EU.”
There’s no wiggle room there. Mundell’s assertion simply isn’t true. People were aware that there was, at that time, less than a 50% chance of an EU referendum, as Labour had categorically ruled one out and they were expected to win the election, or at the very bare minimum deny the Tories a majority. (A hung Parliament was odds-on.)
Mundell was a blustering, stuttering mess for the rest of the interview too. He claimed that the Scottish Government “have not adhered to” to the Edinburgh Agreement in terms of respecting the indyref result, although he couldn’t specify any way in which they hadn’t done so.
(He wouldn’t say whether the UK government would block a second indyref if one were to be brought forward, which it hasn’t been, which would in itself seem to disprove the notion that the 2014 result hadn’t been accepted. The only practical means we can think of by which the Scottish Government could have refused to respect the result would be to declare UDI, which we’re pretty sure they haven’t.)
He also refused to confirm whether Brexit would mean control of fishing and farming coming back to Holyrood, although politicians and pundits routinely insist that they would. (Mundell was evasive, refusing to even acknowledge it as a default position.)
It’s the rewriting of history over the EU that most strikingly characterises the No side’s ongoing panic about the prospect of a second indyref. They simply hope that if they tell the lie stridently enough for long enough everyone will forget the truth. But we’d give you a lot more than 3/1 on that happening.
He is Englands man in Scotland.” Dae as yir telt, plebs”
link to gov.uk
A simple poster. Would Mundell understand the bottom bit?
People, but not perhaps the majority of people in Scotland during Indyref knew there was a possibility of an EU referendum if, big, big if, the Tories got back in with a majority. To know that an EU ref was being talked about you had to read the Daily Telegraph where talk of an EU referendum had been continuous background noise since the 2010 General Election. Or you sat up late to watch Ms Sturgeon debating Alistair ‘help me Rhona’s Carmichael and she mentioned the possibility of an EU ref. I looked for the clip which I thought I had seen on here recently.
But the number of people who read the DT or watched late night debates in Scotland are pretty small in the general scheme of things and the MSM in Scotland certainly did not give any prominence to the possibility that our future in Europe was uncertain whichever way we voted.
All the statements from BT were to the effect that staying in the UK guaranteed continuing membership of the EU and they were given great prominence by the MSM. The statements were never qualities by a ‘but not if Tories win election outright’.
So that’s vast majority of No voters thought that a no vote guaranteed continuing membership of the EU. And many of those No voters in Scotland voted for Remain.
The Edinburgh Agreement, as far as I’m aware, was about the rules of the Referendum, not whether there should be a Referendum or that it was a once in a life time Referendum.
Alex Salmond said, in his opinion, it was once in a lifetime chance. The SNP membership at the time was 20,000, they didn’t vote on it being that, and since then the membership has gone up by 100,000 and they didn’t agree it was a 1 time opportunity and haven’t voted it should be either.
The other Yes groups, Greens etc didn’t say it was.
To be fair Mundell is a pretty incompetent and low ability politician. He is perma spluttering when put under the spotlight, even gently.
He is a guy who has no real grasp of his brief. He is simply there through sheer lack of choice.
As for being unable to answer. You have to acknowledge that this is the result of his being excluded from real polotics in the cabinet. He is a mere token. The lack of respect the Westminster party has for him is illistrated in their lack of engagement with him. Throw him a sweetie occassionally and he will do their bidding and that is the main issue. Here we have an inept, wimpass man, with no fight simply accepting things on behalf of Scotland. As Scotland Secretary he should instead be fighting hard for us. He should be asking, loudly and forcefully, where our involvement is in Brexit. He should be shouting loudly and forecfully for Scotland’s interests and given how we voted, he cannot not seriously say these interests are currently being respected.
If I remember correctly, the Tories had an EU referendum in their previous election manifesto, and failed to deliver. So I was expecting more of the same.
The most brain-ringing part for me was when he compared Scotland being dragged out of the EU with being dragged out of the UK. I’m thick but even I’m not that stupid.
A blustery, stuttery, muttery mess!
Remember the “Daddy or Chips?” advert for McCain’s French Fries?
This is the new version:
Grima Wormtongue or Toom Tabard?
Grima Wormtongue or Toom Tabard?
Your choice…….
Even Andra Neil looked completely contemptuous of the wee split-tongued sourock.
AND NAE WUNNER!
Robert Burns summed up this situation pretty well regarding Scottish agents of Britain –
Mundell is a classic case of being within the said parcel, no matter what his level of competence may be, fool or idiot no difference.
No sympathy either.
SOG @ 4.37pm
If I remember correctly David Cameron promised the Tories a referendum on Europe if the Treaty of Lisbon had not been ratified by the time they took office. But it was ratified, Latvia was the last EU country to accept it and thus make it applicable across the EU.
Most people especially Tories forgot that rider to his promise of a referendum though and kept on about a ref but the need to form a Coalition after the 2010 GE gave him further breathing space.
I am sure like everyone else he expected another Coalition government after 2015 GE and a referendum once more parked in the long grass. Didn’t that go well.
Fluffy stutters and stumbles his way through another interview. Yet again coming across as the useless imbecile he actually is.
You missed one other piece of BS Stu. The Tories – go to – mantra of the market differential in trade between the UK and EU is 4 times higher in value. What utter nonsense. Firstly I have seen nothing to confirm any truth in this figure (still don’t know where it came from) and do they honestly think we should believe that all trade between an Independent Scotland and rUK would cease after Brexit. Of course it wouldn’t, because it’s in no ones interest for that to happen, least of all England’s.
I think he needs to go to specsavers so he can read the poll not see what he wants to.
We must not mock for Fluffy must at least be a candidate to lead the Union campaign for the next indiref.”Better Together#2″ For if not fluffy then who? Ruth Davidson? Kezia Dugdale? Willie Rennie? James Kelly? Amber Rudd? Eddie Izzard? I am going to have to stop now my sides are too sore.
Enough of this criticism of David Mundell. He is the obvious choice to lead the No campaign in the next Independence Referendum, and we should all be backing him to undertake that role.
Oh FFS, very few people could have predicted the sequence of events to get us where we are …
– 2014 polls not a good indication of the election result a year later
– pathetic Smith
– Tory win
– Scots being ignored and EVEL
– EU renegotiation
– another referendum
– an unexpected Leave win
– a change to a hard right regime
– and Brexit still to come
… does anyone actually believe the result would have been 45% if everyone had even a vague notion of what would happen over the following two years!?
Brexit as a word didn’t even exist in 2014.
I posted this earlier on WGD.
Through the wonders of I Player, I’ve just watched Andrew Neil rip Mundell’s liver from his quivering body ,eat it live on TV, washed down with a glass of Blue Nun,
Mundell seems blissfully unaware of his actual position in Scottish politics.
He is the only Blue Tory, but falls back on the ‘Scotland voted to stay in the Union, so there’, and repeats that’ we’ll listen’ to any proposals put by NS to WM regarding a negotiating stance which will get the best deal for Scotland, which voted 62% Remain.
He is the SoS yet he feels that he has no remit to be in there with Johnson, Patel, Davis and Fox,fighting Scotland’s cause.
Of course he is a puppet, a gopher, excluded from the Brexit inner circle, yet he demands that Holyrood should come up with Brexit solutions for Scotland, and present them to him to ‘consider’ as Governor General of the colony? Some would call him an arrogant self important little tosspot. Some would. I couldn’t possibly comment.
What is the point of this insignificant quivering wreck of a man?
Gordon Brewer also did a Hannibal Lecter on Ian Murray, the Red Tory’s Last Man Standing.
Murray is as clueless as Mundell. He was Anas Sarwar on speed.
He will not serve on Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet in a fit of pique, so we have an English SoS for Scotland.
He thinks that he is more effective on the back bench Committees than if he were Shadow Sec?
He came across as a petulant, not very bright, overfed wee fellow traveller, which of course he is.
He even refused to declare that Labour could win the 2020 GE with Jeremy at the helm.
What a waste of a seat at WM he’s turned out to be.
Sturgeon and Robertson were put through their paces by Marr and Brewer, and clearly demonstrated, that no matter the viewers’ particular politics, at least we have some politicians with integrity and more importantly, intelligence.
Since Angus Robertson ceded that if all Scotland’s Brexit codicils were met, access to the Single Market, free movement of Labour, Scotland controlling immigration ,Brewer jumped to the conclusion that a second Independence Referendum would never happen, ever again..
Good try, Mr Brewer.
The Road to Independence may have many pit stops along the way. But we shall get there eventually, worry not.
Mundell, Murray, and Carmichael: ‘Give me men about me who are fat; men who sleep o’ nights.’
Mundell mentally challenged, politically illiterate and morally bankrupt. He wouldn’t know the truth if he fell over it.
His apprentice is another disgrace, say and do anything for a pat on the head. No moral compass, no conscience and no shame. EBC trained her well, a credit to their principals. She rose through the ranks of the territorial army as she shot to the top of the tolly party. A true lachy of the establishment shot callers. The permanent sneer sits well. A class act.
Grey Dug says:
They couldn’t choose a better leader 😉
Ye gawds!
Fluffy fluffing his fluffy way through a fluffyvatious interview about his Fluffynesses views on all things Fluffy! 😀
Hope no one ever expects anything of substantial use or even passing interest to ever be muttered by his loyal Fluffyness! 😀
What a feckin liar he is. He is willing to look at any proposal brought forward? Seriously? What has changed then?
During the Scotland debate in Westminster he said quite clearly he would NOT veto any amendment to the Scotland Bill. Anyone like to have a guess at what actually happened?
Correct! … He vetoed every single one of the 70 odd amendments put forward without so much as a by your leave!
Let’s give Mundell the benefit of doubt, (for the purpose of discussion) and assume that it was clear in 2014 that there would be an EU referendum and that the probable result was a vote to leave.
Did that knowledge escape the Better Together campaign, or did they, in full possession of this information, proceed to mislead the voters by telling them that a vote no would secure our membership of the EU?
Is Mundell’s argument really that he and his fellow No campaigners knowingly made claims that they believed were not true? Not much of a defence, is it?
The problem informed Yes supporters have is that
(a) TV interviewers / commentators, particularly those in London, are NOT sufficiently clued up on Scottish politics
and
(b) Tory and Labour reps get away with telling lies as “popular” press fail to take them to task with the negative headlines that face the SNP on an almost daily basis
Therefore more engagement with Unionist press letters pages and phone ins is required.
No point in just speaking to the converted… its the non political folk we need to persuade.
What a lying weasel. Why is he not standing up for his own country, for heaven’s sake. David Mundell, secretary of state AGAINST Scotland.
Interesting to note that he did slip in, when questioned on another independence referendum, among all his spin, he said, ‘of course their could be another referendum’ (at 3minutes 10).
Seriously what motivates a guy like that to appear on national TV and lie about his own country, to its clear detriment. What a low life.
What a farce. Looks like Scotland’s on a hiding to nothing with these guys. Fluffie’s a lowest denominator tory chancer, much like the UKOK loonies on twitter, historywoman, Effiebeans, Dr NO! etc.
Fluffie’s “Scottish Government “have not adhered to” to the Edinburgh Agreement in terms of respecting the indyref result” simply means, Scotland holding a second referendum. Except the Fluffster cant actually say that out loud on tv yet, because the SNP stood for election with ref 2 in their manifesto.
Tories and democracy don’t really mix.
The Tories are desperately seeking a truth hole but sadly for them we have the Internet. The important factor is that many pensioners do not. We need to focus on those people.
BBC certainly piled in Feb 2014 with the EU Prez and his very clear, vote NO or you’re out, and you wont get back in either.
link to bbc.co.uk
16 February 2014 Last updated at 11:55 GMT
José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission, has said it would be “extremely difficult, if not impossible” for an independent Scotland to join the European Union.
VERY interesting. Neill is clearly pissed that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU. A division amongst unionists?
David Mundell, was he not the guy that said that according to official government lawyers, Scotland ceased to exist as a country as a result of the Act of union 1707, and was absorbed into England.
Leader of Better Together2, he would have to be a total mental bumbling fool to take that on. Oh, right.
A total down right Liar , who treats the whole of Scotland as idiots and suffering from Total bloody Amnesia , this of coarse will be widely reported in the press , this total fiction that is being presented as democracy , and we should trust this travesty to conduct and organise a referendum on our behalf, all future referendums with this lot in control will return a NO vote Guaranteed .
If we follow their rules we lose every time, the EU or the United Nations need to conduct the second vote we will never win when the game is fixed against us .
@ Gail Hughes 5.20 – excellent point! The logic of that argument is inescapable. I do hope interviewers will raise it in future.
“Let’s give Mundell the benefit of doubt, (for the purpose of discussion) and assume that it was clear in 2014 that there would be an EU referendum and that the probable result was a vote to leave.
Did that knowledge escape the Better Together campaign, or did they, in full possession of this information, proceed to mislead the voters by telling them that a vote no would secure our membership of the EU?”
I can’t help but ponder the dynamics of this interview, particularly Neil’s attitude to Mundell.
It couldn’t be personal political differences because there are none between the two. Perhaps frustration at the reluctance to answer questions? No, with Neil’s long experience, dealing with that kind of behaviour from interviewees would be water off a duck’s back.
No, what I got was Neil’s absolute exasperation with a blithering idiot who ‘might’, just ‘might’ be expected to lead a ‘No’ campaign in the next indyref. And that he felt an urgent need to highlight this to the powers that be so that they can take steps to replace him in good time for the next indyref.
I could picture him turning to the camera saying: “This? This is all you’ve got??? Jesus H, get him out before he hands them a Yes vote on a plate! And get me a professional I can work with!!”
Robert Louis @ 5.27
I caught that he slipped that in as well,and as usual the presenter let it slide on by.
First time I have heard UDI mentioned though,but again just dropped in.
While they aren’t coming right out and saying that they will block another referendum,because they can’t and they know it.
I think they will try to portray Westminster as busy with Brexit and will get around to looking at the proposal for a new Edinburgh Agreement as and when they can.
Westminster knows our referendum is on the Brexit clock.
Wait and see how reasonable Fluffy think’s it is for Scotland not to be greedy with parliament’s time and attention.
I don’t think Andrew Neill is affected one way or another about Scotland being dragged out of the EU. I thought he was annoyed at being asked to conduct a serious interview with such a low-quality interviewee. It didn’t matter what Neill asked, Mundell could not give an intelligent, coherent answer.
In the Andrew Marr show today during the section on the comments on today’s papers, one of those interviewed (the male) had a swipe at Scotland but his lack of knowledge shone through. He stated that recent polls showed a drop in support for independence, but failed to say that the poll he was quoting presented the findings without removing the don’t knows. Also he said that Spain would not allow Scotland into the EU in case it encouraged the Basques in their quest for independence. I think he needs a wee up-date here.
Rev . Find target. Take aim. Destroyed as usual. Brilliant job.
Watching this it becomes crystal clear why the tories are putting all their hopes on Ruth Davidson.
Being the only tory mp in Scotland he can’t hide anymore. He really just is not very good and even his own party do not rate him or he would have a seat on the Tory Brexit committee.
Would not surprise me if he stands down at next UK general election…..assuming there will be another one?
Mundell is the ultimate obedient retainer.
Anyway, if he asserts that Scotland was extinguished in 1707, why is he Secretary of State for something that doesnt exist? I think he should pay his salary back.
We had a fairly full cross section of our political leaders on screen today. This served to demonstrate – as if it was not already clear – that in the First Minister and her newly appointed deputy we have intelligent, articulate politicians able to express themselves clearly and concisely whereas the official Secretary of State and the Labour MP for Morningside stuttered and dithered. Mercifully we were spared any contribution from Kezia.
I don’t give a hee-haw that Neil gave Mundell a “pretty uncomfortable time”. Neil could have totally nailed the snivelling, lying git but chose to let him off the hook. Just like the BBC ALWAYS DOES with these Yoon liars.
“It’s true! Ah heard it oan the BBC.”
link to youtube.com
Enjoy!
Wonder what Fluffy would be like in a debate with Nicola if he did lead Better Together 2,dont know if I could watch that kind of carnage.
Not even just Nicola any of them from the Indy Ref 1 campaign really.
The reality is that the existence of Mundell as Secretary of State shows how far Scottish politics has come away from Westminster. Mundell is not Scotland’s man in London. That’s left to Sturgeon and Davidson on their visits. Mundell is simply a human Dictaphone (Remember them?) who relays Westminster’s commands to the Jocko plebs.
Why is Mundell still the Tory Viceroy of Scotland?
Because Patrick Harvie and the Greens stood a candidate against the SNP and let Mundell get in through the middle.
Vote only SNP in 2017 and at all elections until after independence.
Two unionists soon to become obsolete.
For those of you living in England (like me) – can you see any reason why Andrew Neil or other “proud scots” would continue to be employed by the BBC after Scottish independence?
They’re out on their arse, same as Fluffy is.
@Rock
Mundell would still be SoS against Scotland even if every MSP was from the SNP.
Prime Numpty May appointed Mundell. Scottish Parliament had nothing at all to do with it.
This is getting weird:
The Tories want us to respect the 55% who voted NO, but not the 62% who voted REMAIN.
What planet is Snackbeard on?
Liz G at 6.20pm.
Let’s set Mhairi Black onto this!! 21 year old, youngest MP versus Tory SoS, supposedly eminent politician!! Carnage of the highest order!! Bring it on!!
I’m sure I remember there were some saying that it was ok to vote NO as there would be a UK Labour government after the UK general election .Tories are here for more than a couple of elections. It was 18 years last time.
Poor wee Fluffy as a crossdresser you would think he knew whit part of the body the knickers went oan, its certainly no er the heid Fluffy.
Remember another BT appeal to voters in 2014:
“If you are not sure, just vote NO”
If some people did vote NO in 2014, because they were not sure, I wonder what they are thinking now?
I’m old enough to remember when a politician would be obliged to resign if it was discovered that they lied -about anything – as it demonstrated character. What a squalid little shite.
Reprehensible toad.
The strongest evidence to link Mundell to FrenchGate was captured on this site, has been available via YT for yonks, but has had just shy of 15k views.
Even Severin Carrell looked gobsmacked, and there seemed to be an embarrassed acceptance that Mundell would have to face more questions.
So, did he?
Did he fuck.
He got away with it – and people wonder why he’ll do May’s bidding, no matter what humiliation he has to endure?
Please bring the following to the attention of anyone who even suggests that Mundell is anything but a lying jam-boy.
link to youtube.com
Mundell is good for Scotland, in fact he is brilliant for us!!
In the absence of labour Scottish mps, liberal Scottish mps and tory Scottish, there can only be one person to lead the unionist charge in Indy ref 2, and that person is Mundell.
This blithering idiot will be an absolute gift from heaven for the independence cause during Indy ref 2.
The sheen will continue to fade from Davidson as she is exposed as working against Scotland’s interests and peddling right wing tory dogma. People can compare the Scottish government’s education, university fees, NHS, energy, environment / fracking, defence / trident, care of the elderly and Inclusion policies versus those of a right wing tory government destined to rule the uk for the next two decades as labour continues to destroy itself.
Mundell is to the SNP, as Corbyn is to the tories, a gift!
Sorry, could only hack 58 seconds of that footage before i felt like i was going to explode. I noted the snivelling wee brown-nosed bastard is still tied to his masters strings, watch his hands.
Creepy subservient freak!
Exactly what was that shite he was coming out with about a ” UK single market”?
What we need is a ‘bot’ that searches out ‘black hole’, ‘once in a generation’ etc. and love bombs the perpetrators with facts.
Angus Gother,
“@Rock
Mundell would still be SoS against Scotland even if every MSP was from the SNP.
Prime Numpty May appointed Mundell. Scottish Parliament had nothing at all to do with it.”
He almost certainly would not if he had not been elected as an MP.
And he would almost certainly not have been elected an MP if Patrick Harvey and the Greens had not put up a candidate against the SNP in a first past the post vote in which they had no chance of being elected.
The Tories would have been forced to appoint an unelected Lord to be Viceroy and it would almost certainly not have been Mundell.
I did not say that the Scottish parliament had anything to do with it.
“So Mundell was flat-out lying when he told Andrew Neil – who’d questioned him in the context of “Better Together”, not the Conservatives – that …”
which also shows Mundell thinks the BT campaign was Labour-fronted with the Tories pulling the strings. Which of course makes Darling, Curran, Murphy, Davidson et al great fans of Sandie Shaw (well, they have one redeeming feature at least).
Sheryl Hepworth @ 7.03
Don’t know why I didn’t think of her first.
I would pay good money to see that debate.
Mark Russell,
“I’m old enough to remember when a politician would be obliged to resign if it was discovered that they lied -about anything – as it demonstrated character. What a squalid little shite.”
He lied but at least has not been taken to court yet.
Carmichael is a proven liar yet he was allowed to continue as a legally elected MP by a court.
The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.
In UK politics today, only SNP politicians are held to account.
The rest are allowed to get away despite lying through their teeth.
Rock @ 7.34
Angus Gother is right about it being May who appointed the Secretary of State for Scotland and they don’t have to be an MP.
Thatcher did it with Michael Forsythe.
For me the starting gun for IndyRef2 is not just about Brexit important as it is, its about the assurances made by Westminster in the run up to IndyRef 1 that were subsequently broken after the No vote.
I do wish SNP ministers would highlight this when being interviewed on tv as it is important to constantly remind the public of the lies and deceit that was the No campaign.
I was asked an interesting question while listening to LBC radio earlier this afternoon. The LBC show was about President Putin and why he has so much support in the West.
Stick with me….
LBC produced an expert who stated that Putin would react to sanctions imposed on his personal wealth. He and his associates allegedly launder money through London financial institutions. The trouble comes in finding the will to applying sanctions. It won’t happen because the London financial institutions would lose out financially. Corrupt to the core.
Boris Johnson was holding talks on Syria and holding Russian to account to stop the bombing of Allepo.
Of course Boris could make the very sanctions detailed on LBC happen, but he won’t because he, Boris, represents and protects the very vested interests that would lose out if the sanctions against Putin were applied, i.e. London!
Westminster; corrupt to it’s core.
So I was then asked a question about an Independent Scotland.
“What’s the point of Independence and how can we put faith in decisions made in Edinburgh as apposed to those currently made in London?
The person who asked is Anti-Putin.
I answered thus…
“Putin can be stopped now. Boris and the Westminster Government can apply sanctions immediately, as detailed on LBC, but they won’t.”
I then detailed why they won’t as per above and followed with an additional comment.
“Boris Johnson and the London Government can bluster as much as they like but as long as they are corrupt and put the vested interests of the corrupt financial institutions above those of innocents and that of ethical foreign policy then you will not see any meaningful actions taken against Putin and his associates.
“And it is this that demonstrates to me that having the ability and the power to make our own decisions is far better than having London make the wrong decisions on our behalf. London is to corrupt to be trusted and that has been quite obviously demonstrated today.”
A huge penny dropped.
The question I was aske
@ McDuff
“…it is important to constantly remind the public of the lies and deceit that was the No campaign.”
You mean like this…
link to youtube.com
@Rock
Ah, I’d forgotten about that aspect of the 2015 GE. Didn’t realise that was what you were referring to.
I think that was when I went off the idea of splitting my vote in 2016, as it was clear that the Green leadership hadn’t taken the full idea seriously. You may recall that was for Greens to vote SNP in 2015, and in return SNP supporters would vote Green on the list in 2016.
I now regard all forms of tactical voting to be dishonest.
We need serious reform of the voting system if we want to encourage decent turnouts and accommodate voters who don’t like the options presented to them.
@Hamish100
Thanks muchly for that link! I’ve added it to my page
link to yesindyref2.wordpress.com
Too soon for OT ?
How are Scotland’s exports to England calculated?
eg An engineering company fabricates some bridge supports that are sold to Bristol.How is that tracked?
Scottish whisky shipped to Germany via Southampton is that in our column or the UK column?
Mindreader!
Every fibre in my being is screaming June 2018.
Yesindyref2 @ 7.40
Fluffy was also lying when he said if the SNP vote on Grammar school’s it could only be for attention.
He knows fine well that the Education budgets are linked he’s the Scottish Secretary FFS.
And Andrew Neil knows it too,could they be anymore obvious in their set pieces?
At 6:40(ish) it sounds to me like fluffy says “I want to make sure we get the best arrangement from Scotland”.
Genuine gaff or Freudian slip?
Wonder how much of that uk single market trade is eventually exported,but to elsewhere but not credited as Scottish exports. Maybe we in Scotland should invest in ports lol.
Too wee, too poor, too stupid
This mantra has to be taken apart
You can bet that Westminster is fiddling the books to make us look bad, we must be able to show how Scotland will be successful
Don’t get in the weeds Keep it simple keep it short
@ian murray
🙂
@One_Scot
Thursday, November 30 2017, for me.
I also recall a number of independence polls which showed that support for independence soared over 50% when asked in the context of how would you vote if there was likely to be a Conservative majority in the next General Election.
I assumed the false narrative of a prospective Milliband victory was pushed on purpose to head off that sentiment.
If so, it worked.
Sadly, they feel that pushing a false prospectus will always work.
Mmm, for a full moon for 3 days solid, Saturday, Sunday and Monday after a YES vote.
Owooooooooooohoooo free at last
“”Liz g says:
16 October, 2016 at 7:48 pm
Rock @ 7.34
Angus Gother is right about it being May who appointed the Secretary of State for Scotland and they don’t have to be an MP.
Thatcher did it with Michael Forsythe.””
………
Michael Forsythe was an MP from 1983-97. He was appointed Secretary of State for Scotland by John Major in 1995 and served in that position until 1997 GE.
He was an Undersecretary in the SoS 1987-90 during Mrs Thatcher’s premiership but he was an MP.
Mundell the Blue Nun of Scottish politics…a shambles of a man…an apology for a human being chewing on dried spunk on his beard.And his side kick Ruth the laughing cavalier… a sociopathic fraud…BBC trained and managed until she becomes expendable and becomes a stand in for Susan Calman on some other BBC Radio laugh in show for tory berks.
Mark Russell says:
Indeed. I went looking on google for good examples but was overwhelmed 🙂
Found this juicy ‘little’ list ….
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
msean says:
16 October, 2016 at 8:02 pm
Wonder how much of that uk single market trade is eventually exported,but to elsewhere but not credited as Scottish exports. Maybe we in Scotland should invest in ports lol.
I’m sure you know, but for those that don’t, we had a phenomenal port company. Forth Ports Authority. Privatised in 1992. It was on the Stock Exchange until it went completely private, taken over by a private equity fund. It owns the five ports on the Firth of Forth, as well as Dundee and Tilbury in London. It also has a massive land bank in Edinburgh and London, estimated to be over 400 acres.
There’s your infrastructure, squirreled away in investment funds.
Catching up from yesterday and was in a good frame of mind too until I saw this in the Herald.
Where are all these folk coming from? FGS!
Yes campaign leader warns that independence movement is in retreat
link to archive.is
Fluffy was using the exact same lie on Any Questions this week too.
link to bbc.co.uk
If Mundell hadn’t been elected as an MP (Greens) he wouldn’t have got a job as anything because there would have been no Scottish Tories (again Greens)
So the Tories would have had to appoint some other beard munching Toady probably from the Lords
Point being Scotland would have been a completely Tory free zone (Greens again)
And Scotlands mainland would have been all Yellow (Greens)
I don’t understand not understanding the significance of this
Mundell.
No redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not courage, integrity, talent nor, quite obviously, honesty. A Tory gopher and apologist for one of the most appalling right wing governments since Thatchers time.
That’s pretty much it.
Legerwood @ 8.27
Thanks for that correction.
I was always under the impression that when he lost the election in Scotland,he was then made a Lord and was brought back in to government,as the Scottish Secretary.
Now that’s information that I picked up pre internet hanging around militant Bellshill,and would had to have been sourced from Labour.
If it is totally false,dosent it show what liar’s they were even then, I mean it wasn’t even necessary no one there was ever going to vote Tory.
Wondering what else they made up that myself and others just absorbed.
I don’t think we would ever have gotten the measure of Labour without the internet.
Thanks again for taking the time to correct me.
Giving Goose at 7.52
There are many reasons that Putin is so popular in the West, not least that he is running rings around the axis of evil – US/UK/Saudi Arabia – in the Middle East.
He did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan or blow Libya back to the middle ages.
He has not surrounded the US with threatening military installations the way the US has surrounded Russia.
He is legitimately operating in Syria in support of the legitimate government of Syria who asked him to help destroy the islamic lunatics that had seized part of Syria.These are the lunatics that the US and Saudi Arabia funded and armed to try to overthrow the honestly elected president of Syria. We were pretending to fight them.
Russia has cleared huge areas of Syria from these lunatics and sent in massive aid. Remains East Aleppo, still infested by lunatics that behead children. Syria offered free evacuation out of east Aleppo before the Russian air strikes and many took it.
Considering we have bombed Iraq and Libya back to the middle ages and just voted in Parliament to bomb Syria the hypocrisy we are being fed is staggering.
We are being lied to about Syria on a monumental scale and have been lied to since the US decided to take Syria down in 2009.
@Dr Jim
And who do you think is doing the best job for Independence – David Mundell, or just one more SNP MP?
call me dave says:
16 October, 2016 at 8:48 pm
Catching up from yesterday and was in a good frame of mind too until I saw this in the Herald.
Its a cracker. On the one hand red and blue tory yoon culture screaming their heads off Sturgeon wont stop raising Scottish independence, on t’other,
“Fox, who was an MSP from 2003 to 2007, claims the SNP had barely raised the issue of independence in the run up to the UK 2015 General Election and during this year’s Holyrood election campaign.
“The SNP did not make the case for independence at the elections in 2015 and 2016. It’s like independence is the love that dare not speak its name,” he said.”
Is Scotland over loaded with chancers and fcukwits:D
Liz g @ 8.56pm
Probably the reason I knew he was an MP and Secretary of State for Scotland was that he was my MP. At the risk of getting jumped on from a great height I have to say he was a good constituency MP politics not withstanding.
All this discussion of SoS what about the Labour Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland? What is he position on all of this or is it irrelevant?
Legerwood @ 9.07
I really only knew of him when he was campaigning against the Scottish Parliament back in 97.
But I can see why you would think him a good MP,while I hate his politics and all that he campaigns for.
I can see that he is intelligent and certainly knows his subject when taking about Scotland.
Unlike today’s shambles I mean the best that the government can do when it comes to Scotland,is,Fluffy???
Independence is of course a political issue here in Scotland but it shouldn’t be a party political issue.
Colin Fox it seems is guilty of making it one if that Herald article is to be believed. That’s a pity.
I would like to think that regular posters on here though are much more objective, in other words I welcome support for Independence from wherever it may come. It doesn’t matter to me whether that support is right wing, left wing or the lunatic wing provided they do not support violence or racism.
It will take in excess of 50% of voters in another referendum to win the goal that we seek, 8% of Greens for example is a lot of votes potentially on our side. We should welcome that support.
Not everyone is or will be an SNP supporter but increasing support of the SNP is not our goal. Independence is.
Those that are too small minded to appreciate that in order to win we should be inclusive and not divisive then I’m not really interested in their views. Scotland ever after Independence will be divided because at least 45% will have voted NO. We are going to have to work through what may be difficult times.
Sidelining or ignoring support from non SNP quarters is just plain daft. Forget parties and focus on Independence only.
Don’t be labelled as tribal, that’s in our best interests.
Dave @ 9:03
Agreed and I would add that there are huge levels of mistrust of the MSM in the west.
Understandable, just look at the experience in Scotland.
Fluffy and his ilk will be given scripts from the media to read when questioned. It’s only because he is a bumbling idiot that he can’t even get that right and needs help from the interviewer!!
As for independence until the Independent Central Bank of Scotland is formed I can’t see us winning. If you can’t control investment and infrastructure projects without going cap in hand to WM we will always be a loser.
Jack Collatin 5.05 pm Great post Jack
Alternatively I am trying to be respectful here,can i ask no voters and supporters of the union a genuine question, Is this what you voted for, are you happy that this man represents you and your best interests, is it OK for this man and others to deliberately lie ,obfuscate,misrepresent and mislead the Scottish people, in an effort to shackle a more socially responsible aiming Scotland to a divisive , class ridden and corrupt socially irresponsible government.
I ask the voters of all the unionist parties, are you happy to be represented by tories who want to introduce reprehensible divisive sectarianism into Scottish politics,or Slabour who when they were in power didn’t bother with council house building, didn’t object to this tory gov inflicting more and more austerity on the poorest and weakest of our society,rather than on the bas**rds who created this mess.
No they simply abstained en mass with the non socialist attitude of fcuk youse i’m alright, they even told us they would introduce their own version of austerity, maybe austerity light, is that what you wanted to hear. Are you happy to hear all the unionist parties heckle and jeer at the Scottish governments attempts to minimise the impact of continuous underfunding, whilst not offering any support or alternatives.
Look at the array of unionist MSP’s do you really think they offer value for money, tories for fracking irrespective of the impact on our fresh water supplies,the threat of earthquakes,the damage to our environment, slabour more interested in railway timetables rather than foodbanks or how the great repeal act will impact on employment within Scotland.
I ask again, is this shower of self serving twats what you consider to be representative of who you want to look after your interests.
I would ask you to look at the record of the SNP SG operating under extreme conditions, and consider deeply what kind of future you want for your children and grandchildren I know what I want and the ONLY government capable of delivering it SNP forward to the FUTURE
@ Liz g
Forsyth (no e) was ennobled after he lots his Commons seat – though not immediately (1999).
So you’re right about that, but the next opportunity for him to have been SoS was not until 2010 when Labour lost office, and Carmichael was given the job then.
That, presumably, was to avoid having to appoint either Mundell or a Lord, and to keep the LibDems sweet(ish).
Angus RobertsonVerified account
?@AngusRobertson
The UK Govt is planning single-market access for the City of London. So why not Scotland, where 62% of voters chose ‘Remain’? #Brexit #EU
Billions for the EU, if they give the City a free EU pass, is probably not what Brexiteers had in mind. What ever happened to a new UKOK hospital a week and so on?
Should be interesting watching BBC gimps sell this to the plebs of the UK zone.
*lost*
I did look at the pre-view box – honest – but saw what should have been there, not what was.
Rancid The Graun. I loved the 70’s, reading by candle light was fun! Proud Scotbuts must be so proud.
Ireland
Ireland beyond Brexit
Irish leaders fear Brexit will bring economic disaster
Enda Kenny prepares for unprecedented cross-border talks amid fears over future of Ireland’s borders, exports, security and economy
@Heedtraker
Londons financial sector is toast after Brexit. All the big banks will be looking for new headquarters.
Preferably English speaking, Edinburgh and Glasgow might do very well out of Brexit providing Scotland remains in the EU.
Thepnr says:
16 October, 2016 at 9:57 pm
@Heedtraker
It looks like it. New York or Wall Street’s gearing up for massive expansion as the City ups sticks. Wall Street’s the favoured move by most banks, if only because the UK wont be able to afford the luxury of too big to fail banksters. WTF were Leave thinking of.
“The UK Govt is planning single-market access for the City of London.”
theyre planning it, like they have any control over it… I hope the EU tells them to GTF
Rancid the Graun thing on just how bad Brexit is for Ireland is worth a look, if only because rancid wouldn’t dream of doing the same for their Scotland region. Its not a coincidence for the rule Britannia Britnats of the UK zone.
link to archive.is
Looks as though you should be doing Andrew Neil’s job for him Stu. Seems to be getting loadsa money for doing nought. Oh no I forgot he’s the Establishment’s mouthpiece. Worth his weight in gold to them.
Mundell the man who worked in the same office as Carmichael, the liar, during the Frenchgate affair. The Frenchgate affair that to my mind greatly influenced the outcome of the Election. Ensured that Labour didn’t win. I’m sure his recollection of that time is totally unimpaired, especially as he looked as though he was going to have diarrhoea when being questioned about it. Mundell the liar who suffers from selective memory syndrome.
The one good thing about all of this is that when we get our Independence Mundell’s post will become defunct. He’ll be out on his erse heading towards the House of Lords, no doubt. Lord Beardy Weirdy.
We’ll also have our own broadcasting service which will have the capacity to show Andrew Neil up as a manipulative, biased liar. Programmes that’ll out ‘the parcel of rogues’. Modern Scottish history that will be taught in our schools showing them all up for what they are. The whole kit and caboodle of them. Tick, tock.
Watching some of the great speeches of Malcolm X,
he has one that sums up the likes of Mundell,Murray,Neil,Wark and a thousand others,
called The House Negro and the Field Negro,
link to youtube.com
I see that highlights from the Conference are going to shown on BBC2 at 22:35pm. Surprise, surprise. I wonder if they’ll include the part where Nicola mentions how rich we are?
The Edinburgh agreement also said that both governments would work to implement the result of the referendum in the interests of both Scotland and the UK. In what way is Mundell now working in Scotland’s best interests? Having campaigned in the EU referendum that EU membership was important to Scotland’s interests why is the best he can do now to “wait and see what proposals come from the Scottish Government”. Why isn’t he, and why isn’t the UK government, coming up with proposals?
called The House Negro and the Field Negro,
Its the raw fear in Mundell’s eyes that really stands out. And its fear in seated in front of very tory toryboy henchman too. Maybe the Ligger’s just one scary Murdoch MOFO to go anywhere near. You can learn a lot from the Ligger though.
Single market access for the City of London? With free movement of labour? How’s that going to work out? How are they going to prevent furriners from wandering off into the English countryside? Build a wall round London like the Vatican? Border control?
@ScotFinlayson
Some of the most powerful moments in history have come from the Black Power era. There was a conversation here back a couple of weeks talking about plantation owners and overseers and the parallels here. The House Negro and the Field Negro is equally valid. ‘I am one of you not one of them’.
Of course for literal parallels, see the whole land reform argument.
Hi crazycat.
Was Michael Moore not SOS for Scotland, prior to Carmichael?
I seem to recall that Carmichael was brought in because Moore was seen as ‘lightweight’.
@ Petra, they’ve already said that Bankers should not be subject to immigration controls. Nor Polish construction workers.
So free movement for Bankers, Polish builders and students in Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial College (apt) and Bath. Think that’s all.
Can just see EU enthusiastically adopting that in exchange for access to the Single Market.
Quite an amazing interview really. I don’t imagine Mundell will want to keep this one for his archives but we will! Normally Neil is mocking Scotland, dismissing our MPs and MSPs but today he was clearly exasperated with shape shifting Mundell.
How dare Mundell say that every vote the SNP cast in WM is purely opportunistic, the loathing floods out of the man. Personally, I can’t stand him.
Clear to me that Ruth Davidson is limbering up to lead the Union side – didn’t she hint that she would be happy to accept the standing invitation to May’s cabinet BUT she has a job to do first. Also, clearly trying to get into as many living-room TV screens as possible in familiar scenarios to create that friendly, you-can-trust-me, girl-next-door persona to win the elderly over. obnoxious woman!
David Mundell, Alastair Carmichael, Ian Murray… What a shower!
That they are the sole representatives of Tory, Lib Dem and Labour Scotland speaks volumes. Very glad I don’t support one of those parties.
Thank goodness for our amazing team of MP’s. Mhairi Black; Joanna Cherry, Angus Robertson; Tommy Sheppard and all the other brilliant people fighting our corner.
In that Herald article re: Colin Fox, he states,
“”At the recent rallies the SNP was not present.”
At the Glasgow Green rally on the 18th September, I stood and listened to some guy called Tommy Sheppard, speaking on the stage.
I thought he was an SNP MP. Obviously, I’m mistaken, coz Colin Fox must be right. After all, “it said so in the papers…”
link to archive.is
Even with soft balls he looked and sounded like a complete chump
I hope he as better at making tea or there will be no job at all for him in the Brexiting committee
@ Brian Doonthetoon
Yes! You’re absolutely right. His tenure was obviously very memorable! (Poor chap – I think he was a much better person for the job than Carmichael, partly because he occasionally thought for himself and admitted it – can’t have that, of course.)
Even with soft balls he sounded a complete chump
My memory of this period was that only folk on places like Wings were of the view that our best chance of staying in the EU was through a Yes vote. I will need to navigate my way back to posts at the time but the idea that the average No voter entertained the possibility of voting No and then leaving the EU is to rewrite history.
To give Stu credit he called that Ed Miliband would not win the election from waaay the hell back and there were many who believed that an EU ref could well happen and that in that circumstance we were heading for the EU door but it was very much a fringe yes pre-occupation.
The tory manifesto for 2015 has a pic of DC on the front page. Below his pic it reads:
“Strong Leadership
A Clear Economic Plan
a Brighter, More Secure Future”
(I suppose had they written:
“Leadership will abdicate during a major crisis
No plan whatsoever for what happens in the event of a Leave vote
A Dismal, far more Uncertain and Insecure Future” they would not have done quite so well at the ballot box)
Anyway- the manifesto is where they set it in stone that they would, in the uber-unlikely event of them winning a majority, hold an In-Out EU ref. The manifesto launch was on the 15th of April 2015.
So when David Mundell claims “People voted in Scotland, and voted decisively to remain part of the United Kingdom, in the full knowledge that there would be an EU referendum.” what he is saying is that the electorate in Scotland had access to the future knowledge that not only would the tories definitely put an EU referendum in their manifesto some 7 months later, but that the tories would win a majority against the odds the next month and that Cameron would follow through with his manifesto commitment.
Mundell is simply lying.
Heedtracker @ 10.36
Whatever was causing Fluffy to be so frightened,it was definitely to to with Neil.
Although he sprouts the same rubbish at the presenter during his interview on Sky , and is still a bad liar.
He doesn’t look frightened.
So it can’t be that he is lying.
It can’t be that he is nervous about being interviewed.
He is used to being on TV.
It’s very curious as to why he behaved as he did.
As the Rev points out there were several places Neil could have went for him and exposed him for lying.
He was even gifted the chance to do the SNP bad,and only trying to upset the English routine.
So it wasn’t even as if he was in a hostile environment.
Can’t work it out what was really going on there at all.
Just one more SNP MP quite obviously because the Tories would have had to give someone the job who was sod all to do with Scotland at all, if you want to talk resentment
Plus the SNP could rightly have claimed the Tories had absolutely no representation whatsoever in Scotland
Don’t hear the Greens defending Scotland yet, no still can’t hear them or see them
They’ll be waiting for the right oppotunity eh?
link to caltonjock.com
DMH @ 9:03
Agreed. Putin certainly has an agenda but it seems to be more of a protectionist one as opposed to the wests expansionist madness.
I’m always impressed when I hear Sergie Lavrov speak and consider Putin to be a shrewd operator.
Maybe I trust the Russians more because I am only too well aware of the shitehawks in Westminster and equate that with the Wests machinations.
@ Capella …. “Free movement of Labour.”
They’ll pick and choose who’ll get in? With the focus on England’s needs of course. This can’t be right. Someone must be pulling our leg. IF there’s any truth to this the EU will tell them to get lost. Many English people who have been complaining about Polish workers will tell them to get lost.
And do they really think that they’ll get away with say discriminating between Polish construction workers and German? The lunatics have taken over the asylum right enough. Westminster the laughingstock of the World.
………………….
The coverage of the Conference was really good. Crammed in quite a lot in a short time. Some woman talking about Trident with Trump and Boris in charge would have put the wind up a few viewers. Figures were quoted to highlight that Scotland is not a one (oil) trick pony. Russell basically saying that they can’t / won’t block Indyref2. The Brains were shown, kids in care and so on. Surprising unbiased.
Brian Doonthetoon
Yes Michael Moore was SOS before Carmichael
Michael Moore got sacked because he did so badly in the TV debate with Nicola Sturgeon so they brought in ‘The Bruiser’-The Hammer of the Nats’ who did even worse in the ‘Help me Rona’ TV debate.
My MP posts his retweets on FB so we all see them and the last one he did was re the Irish situation.
I have also read links to The Guardian’s articles on the Irish situation (also on FB) from both Enda Kenny and Martin McGuiness re the disaster for Ireland because of the falling pound making their exports to UK dearer.
Also a lot of their exports are food and have a low (2%) profit margin. If there are tariffs of 17% that means a net loss to those businesses of 15%.
The repercussions of Brexit casts a wide net. Scandalous that the Tory row should cost harm to the innocents in another country.
They should be totally ashamed but they won’t be.
Resolution proposed at conference by Tony Guiliano, and approved by the expected huge majority:
“Conference believes that every avenue must be explored to keep Scotland in the EU. If no viable solution to safeguard our membership as part of the UK exists, Scotland should prepare for a second independence referendum and seek to remain in Europe as an independent country.”
Liz g says:
16 October, 2016 at 11:15 pm
Heedtracker @ 10.36
Whatever was causing Fluffy to be so frightened,it was definitely to to with Neil.
Although he sprouts the same rubbish at the presenter during his interview on Sky , and is still a bad liar.
He doesn’t look frightened.
It was the exact same script he’d memorised for BBC r4 Any Questions show at Glasgow last week, exactly the same, right down to Scotland losing a million UKOK jobs with independence. Its that desperate yoon wise now. Or its a just another facet of a tory corrupted BBC where lines are rehearsed over and over.
A few comments about Michael Moore. I saw him at conference. I always rather thought him to be pretty straightforward and honest. I would welcome him into the SNP or onto the bandwagon.
There was an enormous amount of press coverage about the EU during the IndyRef. I don’t think a day went past without some article about the EU. It probably all started with Tugendhat’s letter to Barroso. Then there was the Crawford & Boyle legal advice which stated Scotland ceased to exist in 1707. The UK Gov refused to approach the EC for a definite answer
This is what Michael Forsyth had to say to Michael Moore
link to parliamentlive.tv
at 15.58.09
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: You said that you wanted the debate to be as informed as possible. One of the things that Mr Swinney said to us last week was that they had a difficulty in establishing what the position would be vis-a?-vis having to apply for membership of Europe or whether they would be allowed to remain in Europe because the Commission would only talk to Governments, and that the British Government were not prepared to engage on this issue. I find it a bit puzzling how you can reconcile saying, “We are not prepared to talk to the Commission as a Government about what the consequences would be”, with saying at the same time, “We want to have a fully informed debate”. Does Mr Swinney not have a point there?
Petra @ 11.27
That’s a few times now we are getting a bit of balance in the media.
I suspect that they are building up an archive to trott out during the Referendum.
So the can say we are all crazy for thinking the media are biased.
Also…. might be me actually being crazy,but sometimes over the last few weeks it seems like they are trying to get England used to Scotland not being around.
In a sort of face-saving no big deal kind of way.
It would make sense in a perverse kind of way as well cause they won’t have Europe to blame for people being skint anymore.
It will be us that robbed them when we left.
Hi Ruby, where have you been lately? I’ve missed my Ruby replies.
@ Ruby
Hello! I was wondering only the other day what had become of you, so it’s good to see you posting again.
There was an enormous amount of press coverage and debate about the EU during the IndyRef and none of it included info about a future EU Ref.
Remember Lord Lipsey with his “last refuge of scoundrels” remark.
link to tinyurl.com
Just thinking, errmm…
If T May wants the City of London/bankers etc to get single-market access at any cost, does she also want that for the second largest financial centre in the UK – Edinburgh!
Or is she going to sacrifice some bankers for others?
Just found this ‘good’ article on Washington Post about Scotland’s renewable sector, we’re having a ‘quiet energy revolution’…even mentions our subsidies been taken away by WM, jeez it’s so rare to find positive stories about our country that I just had to share! It really makes ye miss quality journalism actually investigating subject matter afore publishing.
Comments are no bad, , some ‘yoonistic’ pish being sorted out btl by some tuned in folks too: (not archived as comments won’t show otherwise)
link to washingtonpost.com
Viva Barcelona Margo!
Si Catalonia!
Actually, I would go slightly further than the (excellent) article’s recall of events. The very highest expectation that anyone had for the Tories in the UKGE was that there would be a continuation of the Tory-LibDem coalition, in which context it was widely thought that the EUref promise was only included in the Tory manifesto as a conveniently-discardable sop to the LibDems, post-election. Cameron got saddled with the consequence when his “Miliband dependent on Sturgeon” tactic did better with the English than expected.
The rest, as they say, is history.
I’ve said it elsewhere, but worth repeating here. I believe that the Brexit result is the UK’s “second Suez”. As serious as that. A last-gasp imperial pretention unmasked by events as a completely unsustainable mirage.
The first, which unwound rapidly after the USA put the big squeeze on the pound, led the French (who were also involved) to seek shelter in the security of a European communality, which eventually evolved into the present EU. A shared bulwark against big-power hegemony. (A motivation of which present-day Leavers often seem quite ignorant.) The Brits on the other hand became beggars for crumbs at the US table, which eventually led to Blair’s unfortunate sycophancy.
This time round the nemesis of the UK’s imperial last stand, ironically enough, will be the EU itself.
Alex Salmond said in his opinion the indy ref would be a once in a generation event.
He did not define what a generation was.
He did not claim this was SNP policy.
He did not claim this was the opinion of the rest of the pro indy support.
He would, however, have been well aware that to suggest that another referendum could quickly follow the first, would be deleterious to the success of that first referendum.
XXX ~ Steeerike Three ~ Yooooou’re out, Mundell.
Scotland.. I love.
X
@ Liz at 11:52pm …..”Media balance.”
Yeah I don’t know what to make of it Liz. Have they had so many complaints that they’re bucking up to some extent? We know that A Neil made the great omission however he did get right into Mundell’s ribs highlighting what a sneaky, evasive wee liar he is. The coverage of the Conference I reckon was very positive for us and then there was that chap Papadopoulos (or whatever) who set them straight on Putin recently.
Maybe they’re aware that the eyes of the World are on them due to Brexit? Maybe they know that their days are numbered? Who knows? I do get this feeling that many people realise now that we ARE leaving maybe due to them knowing that they can’t use the same rotten old threats such as out of the EU, NATO and so on. The new ‘threats’ will be down to the strength of our economy. loss of trade with rUK, defence and immigration, imo.
The media bias is so utterly galling. If someone in the MSM would just tell the truth, for a few short hours one night, we’d be Independent in a heart beat.
……………
@ Boris at 11:23pm …. “Elections.’
Great, not, that they set a 40% limit (40% of the total electorate) on the 1979 Scottish election for Yes to win and yet Cameron got in with 36% of votes from 66% of the electorate. In other words he won with around 20 odd percent of total UK votes (and very few from us of course). The Brexiters won with 30 odd percent votes of the total electorate and of course Theresa May is ruling the roost with no one voting for her at all. That’s what you call democracy in the UK.
Petra @ 12.57
Glad it’s not just me picking up a wee bit of a change.
Mibbi I’m no crazy after all…..
Brewer asked Angus Robertson about this meeting that May had with the Nissan Boss ref suggestions the ‘British government might negotiate deals with specific industries, like the car industry (that they) could sort of stay in the single market, even if Britain leaves’. He then asks Angus if that should apply to industries (could the SNP not make the case) why should it not apply to geographical areas like Scotland?
Angus agrees this is the point that the FM is making that ‘it is possible to find different solutions’. He goes on to cite the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man with different arrangements with EU. It’s worth a listen to:
Starts at 2:47 on the vid:
link to youtube.com
In the above vid Angus basically confirms that should WM seriously engage with Scotland and a way forward be found (nevah gonnae happen) then independence would be off the table. (hahaha)
Gotta say I fuckin’ love our FM’s/SNP’s balls, they think we are ‘bluffing’? Naw we’re no…but they will be fully exposed for the absolute back stabbing bastards that they are on a much wider international platform than they ever have been before.
FM’s playing a blinder, make no mistake about that.
Thanks boris for the link to calton jock’s look back at the 1979 referendum, which was knobbled by Labour MP, George Cunningham, with the 40% rule.
Jock’s reminder of 1979 and 2014, is a difficult read as it has a high propensity to induce a bout of despair. But, more to the point, the sheer gullibility of the Scottish electorate in 1979, which was still very much present in 2014, will, no doubt, feature again with IndyRef2.
I find comparison with the people of North Korea appropriate as both nations have two things in common, notably, a high degree of trust in their Government (Hanoi & Westminster), and the all pervading presence of State Propaganda.
I have to confess to a measure of ‘unhappiness’ with the Scottish Government/SNP over Indy14, over their gullibility in accepting the Unionist’s almost total control of broadcast media. Should this gullibility by the SNP reappear in the preparations for IndyRef2, I for one will be calling for resignations at the very top.
Even when we do get cast iron opportunities on TV to make important clarifications of BT lies, we regularly pass them up. It is soul destroying.
Right now, our best hope seems to be that Brexit will be seen to cause so much damage to the UK, that even the most naive of No voters will see the disastrous consequences of voting No again. Except they won’t see it on TV or in the Unionist Press in Scotland, who will cover it all up.
Perhaps rising prices for imported groceries and holidays overseas, due to the collapsing pound, will get the message across.
And if we do get Independence this time round, all we’ll have to deal with, forever after, is the jibe that we couldn’t vote our way to Independence by ourselves – we had to get the English to do it for us – through Brexit.
Absent friends!
Scotland’s only Labour MP hasn’t talked to Jeremy Corbyn in four months
link to archive.is
Shroud waving has started…SNP bad.
Warning that firms may quit Scotland over tax hikes
link to archive.is
@ Manandboy
It would appear that you have the SNP damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Maybe they were as you say gullible about the media, what tho, should/could they have done about it? Even now the media ignore or worse spin every story into SNP bad. I don’t blame the SNP. I blame the Westminster Parliament which has tied Scotland down since 1707, every generation since then has tried to get free from its grip.
They shipped us out to the other side of the world, they burned us out of homes, they tried to kill our spirit…they took our sons to wars…they have only ever made us stronger. It’s that feeling in each of us that they just can’t understand, a sense of belonging…Scotland is part of us all and we make Scotland…they can never take that from us.
I trust Nicola to do what is right for Scotland, she deserves that we stand with her no matter what. Have a little faith, we are nearly there.
@call me dave
I’d welcome Michael Moore as well, a really decent guy, and politician. Let down by the LibDems voting for tuition fees.
Anyway, he joined PwC in January this year, I was pleased for him, as a devolution specialist. Perhaps that’s why he was there at the conference – to sample the tone on Indy. Just googled a few words and found this from the day after the Brexit vote:
link to pwc.co.uk
The PwC chairman Ian Powell made a comment to the BBC supporting a UK during the ref, though PwC itself said it had no formal position. Powell stepped down this year after serving the maximum 2 terms of 4 years, and Kevin Ellis took his place.
link to pwc.blogs.com
With JP Morgan I think it was indicating a possible move to iScotland after the EU Ref end June / July, and others, it’ll be interesting to see what stance PwC take this time.
Perhaps he will step down to spend more time with his family.
He looks completely done in.
It is clear that he is not in the Loop.
Why would he be? After all he’s only in charge of the colony.
He looks about to crack IMHO.
In a former life, I believe Fluffy Mundell was a solicitor. I assume he legislated in the buying & selling of houses & writing “solicitors’ letters” to put the fear of death in to some poor person who let his hedge grow a couple of inches too high, at Xplus £s or such like. Just couldn’t see him in a court of law. A bar-room lawyer would tear him to bits.
And by all accounts, he is still getting money under false pretences.
Basically, he is an unnecessary expense, worse than “a man short”, a waste of space, or anything else any of correspondents might call him on here, can come up with to describe this excuse.
God, help us with our future if he continues to be within our minst.
@call me dave
From that Scotsman article “Scots are already facing higher income rates tax rates”
No. Same tax rates, exactly the same. It’s the threshold for the higher rate that’s not going up.
Sorry, midst.
Sorry, mids’t.
@ Liz 11:52
Give the media no quarter. Do not trust them.
To get anywhere near balanced, the media already owes us two stolen referenda manipulated by their constructively malicious intervention.
I agree with Manandboy. If this rancid media has allowed its integrity to be compromised by its slavering bias, then the damage is self inflicted. For the life of me I do not understand why the Pro independence is so ill prepared for dealing with the litany of disinformation and alert to manipulation of the political agenda.
We live in a world where skilled politicians typically manipulate the media. Not in Scotland. Our MP’s with a few notable exceptions, enter a TV studio like lambs to the slaughter. To remain so gullible and ill prepared at this stage in the game is simply amateurish. The SNP should be running workshops and faux interviews to train their spokespeople how to recognise and deal with the slight of hand and forked tongue of the hostile media.
Please, put to bed any idea that the media will be destroyed by its own bias. That is cloud cuckoo land thinking and might yet cost us a third referendum.
Latter part not aimed at you Liz… Just general perspective.
Latter part not aimed at you Liz… Just a general gripe.
I do agree to some extent about being prepared to meet the media.
The thing is it seems to me like it should be very easy to counter many arguments currently being thrown against the SNP/independence because of the complete knots most Westminster folks are tying themselves in these days.
Like the proverbial “cat with a slice of buttered toast tied to its back” they hover in mid-air a foot of the kitchen floor in some state of quantum flux – as they make the very arguments they used for leaving the EU against Scottish independence (without even the temerity to look embarrassed at their completely opposite views).
Doesn’t seem to me to be that difficult to pick them up on it and even some of the interviewers, normally hostile to independence, are picking up the ball and running with it to some extent.
Breeks @ 6.43
No worries my friend didn’t read it that way at all.
But it was decent of you to clarify.
heedtracker & crazycat
You’ve made me blush!
Did anyone note 3:03 minutes in where Fluffy confirms that the UK Govt would agree to a second referendum if the Scottish govt wants one or did I hear wrong?
Solarflare @ 6.58
Why do you tie buttered toast to your cat ?
And how did you think of the name Proverbial?
But seriously I agree with you and Breeks,it can be so frustrating.
Half the time I have half a dozen answers in my head,and the politicians just seem to give out the most feeble one.
They really should organise some sort of media training.
When you watch actors interviewed in the early stages of their careers and then a while later the difference is impressive,and you can tell they have had a bit of coaching.
Hell you can even say the same about Andy Murray.
Whoever put up the article in the appalling Scotsman just put me off my breakfast.
Read the article and then the insane comments – and they are INSANE.
I am beginning to wonder if all rational folk have abandoned the paper and it is only left with the loopy loos – or , as happened in the past , staff trying to incite comment.
When is this ‘regional’ paper due to release its circulation figures? Just so I can have a wee snigger.
Dickiet @ 7.17
Had another listen,I think he said very quickly “of course there could be another referendum but”,and then waffles on about how it’s a terrible idear.
That’s been the party line for a wee while now.
But always both the presenter and their guests stating as hard fact that Westminster’s permission is required,which as you will probably know is not true.
I watched both muddley and murray make a complete hash of their interviews, I couldn’t stop laughing at muddley’s interview, he was shitting himself and murray was just embarrassing.
I was wondering why Marr was quoting some Spanish guy to the First Minster on his show, Nicola was looking bemused that Marr thought this was relevant, like we haven’t heard this shite before.
If this is what “better together 2” has to offer, bring it on.
@Dorothy Devine
‘I am beginning to wonder if all rational folk have abandoned the paper’
Yes.
The folk who read, absorb and then comment upon much of the Scotsman’s political output rank alongside those you’d find ATL last thread.
I used to comment there a few years back and decade or so ago I even bought the paper. They’ve hit more than a few ethical and moral lows over the past year or three in journalism. Their treatment of visitors and moderation policy being right down there on that list.
However, it was their willingness to demonise and other half the population which really is the killer blow for me. Hold a differing opinion THAT’S FINE, but misrepresent and willingly lie about a sizeable number your own population? Inflict misery to promote a political agenda and inflict wilful and harmful division in your own society?
The media have a lot to answer for God knows, but over the past few years especially in Scotland, their actions and behaviour toward their own readerships has been nothing short of a disgrace. I’d say the Scotsman is near the top of the worst offenders, but by their lights they’d see that as a compliment.
Andrew Neil let David Mundell off with the assertion that an independent Scotland within the the EU would risk losing it’s trading relationship with rUK. This oft repeated bland assertion has to be challenged every time it is made.
Scotland within the EU will have exactly the same trading relationship with rUK as all other EU states. True that deal has not yet been hammered out yet but it will be hammered out as this is the single most important aspect of the forthcoming Brexit negotiations and it is in both sides interest that a deal is reached. While the UK does have some cards to play, the EU will demonstrate that size matters and the deal will ultimately suit the EU better than the UK.
So an independent Scotland will be able to trade with the UK on favourable terms. Additionally, financial services will look to relocate from London as the financial passport to freely trade within the EU is likely to be lost in the Brexit negotiations. Scotland and Ireland could well be massive beneficiaries of this relocation process.
The post Brexit landscape will be almost unrecognisable and Scotland should be prepared for the massive opportunities this will offer.
Mundell was struggling (and lying) in that interview with Neill but that doesnt stop BBC Scotland salvaging a soundbite from the wreckage and broadcasting it as part of their 8am news headlines “I myself voted Remain but I did not do so in the expectation that if I did not get my way, Scotland would be torn out of the UK”
They repeated this soundbite later in an extended discussion between pundits (dont know who they were, but no SNP of course).
Also the assertion was made that Rajoy said he would block Scotlands accession to the EU also that he didnt want Scotland to ‘separate from’ the UK. That one again. When did he say that exactly?
Alot more material there too, a pure propaganda piece.
Rev. Stu.
Been giving the caption some thought…..think you’ve missed a sitter……surely should’ve been
“Mundell given a grilling by Brillo (pad)”
The BBC will claim their output is balanced overall, but will output the fair items on programs hardly anyone watches, and go all out anti independence on stuff like 8am primetime radio with tens of thousands of casual listeners.
If I complain about that 8am GMS headline (which I will) the answer will be ‘ah but we broadcast the balance to that in some other bulletin with much lower listening figures’.
Breeks: “We live in a world where skilled politicians typically manipulate the media.”
I think you’ll find thy don’t need manipulated. Already right-wing in outlook, they do what they do willingly. Feeding half-truths to the media is the job of a political party’s spin doctors.
“SNP should be running workshops and faux interviews to train their spokespeople how to recognise and deal with the slight of hand and forked tongue of hostile media.”
The best appear to have that ability in good measure. But if you feel there’s a gap why not offer your services as tutor? PS: ‘sleight of hand’.
Peace and goodwill.
Macart: “The media have a lot to answer for God knows, but over the past few years especially in Scotland, their actions and behaviour toward their own readerships has been nothing short of a disgrace.”
Seconded. We have a fractured democracy in Scotland when our newspapers are reluctant to defend our civil rights.
Glamaig
Furthernore- you’re response, even in some alternate universe where they do admit an error (as I found myself in recently) you end up sitting with an email back from the BBC and a mealy mouthed apology for suggesting on the evening news headline that the Scottish Government is in charge of all money attributed as Scottish Expenditure and raises all the money attributed to Scottish revenue.
It’s great but 6 weeks on this headline read out by Jackie Bird is a distant memory for a handful of folk at best.
Do me a favour though- use the term “state broadcaster” as that seems to really bug them
Slightly O/T
It appears our state broadcaster has doctored a photo of John Swinney to make him look like hitler – truly disgraceful
link to twitter.com
Re my post at 09:18
Mr Swinney has confirmed that his wedding ring is worn on his left hand – which can only mean that the photo of him has been deliberately reversed
Links
David Mundell is a liar. An EU referendum was *not* inevitable after the indyref. Labour only backed it in May 2015. Video here
link to twitter.com
Scotland edges close to second independence vote post-Brexit
link to archive.is
link to tommyballgovan.blogspot.co.uk
link to piclinegirl.com
link to politicshome.com
Martin McGuinness calls for special EU status for Northern Ireland
link to archive.is
The Brexiteers’ Marmite conspiracy theories exposed their utter ignorance of how markets really work
link to archive.is
Island mentality: UK is flirting with protectionist walls, India can counter by pushing reforms
link to archive.is
link to waitingfortax.com
the-eu-should-stick-to-its-guns-on-brexit
link to archive.is
Iraq Launches Military Offensive To Retake Mosul From ISIS; Up To 1 Million Refugees Expected
link to archive.is
Nana says:
Particularly interesting is Tusk …
“Donald Tusk, the President of the European Council, said Britain could not have a partial exit from the EU.
“In my opinion, the only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit.” ”
Cancel Brexit or get a crap deal, I paraphrase.
The BBC is doing a first class job as state broadcaster and North Korea is probably envious.
Even if the SNP dont want to directly challenge the BBC (and I can see how that might be counter productive) they could be compiling a massive fk off professional standard dossier of this stuff.
Anybody know what has happened to Prof John Robertson? has he retired?
“Great, not, that they set a 40% limit (40% of the total electorate) on the 1979 Scottish election for Yes to win and yet Cameron got in with 36% of votes from 66% of the electorate. In other words he won with around 20 odd percent of total UK votes (and very few from us of course). The Brexiters won with 30 odd percent votes of the total electorate and of course Theresa May is ruling the roost with no one voting for her at all. That’s what you call democracy in the UK.”
That would make a great billboard once streamlined a wee bit for impact, Petra. It highlights our democratic deficit brilliantly.
Good to see you back, Ruby. I thought one of Buffalo Girl’s Burly Men had locked you in a room somewhere.
Why was Fluffy looking so nervous? I think he was simply intimidated by Neil. And that’s with softball questions and a lot of unchallenged assertions.It’s obvious even he doesn’t believe his own script.
He’s a wee weed, just.
…why are the GER figures going unchallenged?
Every interview has someone announcing the 15billion pound black hole. I have spoken to several NO voters who are starting to listen. They want to be convinced but I keep hearing “…even the Scottish government accepts those figure – it is their report”
If we continue to accept a report that was engineered to mislead.
If we continue to allow unionists to pick one year of data instead of the last 30.
If we ignore the failure to set up an Oil fund.
If we continue to permit the discussion to ignore the UK deficit
Then…..We are going to lose those voters to NO by default
Why are we playing to their rules? Why do we accept interviews with questions that are in fact long negative statements presented as facts. Why continue on forums of 5 to 1 against.. Why pretend the chair is neutral when he engineers the format against them.
If our MPs and MSPs are not going to fight these issues then stop doing the interviews!
Use the Internet / public meetings IN Scotland.
The current tactic is just giving the unionist media the opportunity to scream their propaganda over and over.
We don’t need to win over the “UK” voters…just the Scottish ones.
Let the media defend their position when accused of bias when Scottish politicians refuse to attend.
You are excused, Rev, not commenting on the first item on the Andrew Marr show (I was only just out of bed myself) where the unimportant Yoon journalist brought in to review the papers stated, like Mundell completely unchallenged, that “there is less support in Scotland now for independence than there was in 2014.”
Its not the lying that gets me, I expect nothing less, its that they remain unchallenged by the journalist present. But well done on this one. In this case we all knew Mundell was just plain lying (his lips were moving) but, as ever, having all the details and quotes to hand should we require them in the pub or workplace for the elucidation of the scepical is invaluable. I don’t know how you do it.
@ Clootie – maybe they carry on doing the interviews because they score over 50% in the polls and rising? A 30 point lead over their nearest rivals. The most popular political party in Europe.
Being very successful politicians, it’s possible that they’ve decided it isn’t worth getting into silly fights with a biased media which will never allow them the space to explain complicated matters such as GERS figures. Imagine the screaming headlines:
SWINNEY ACCUSES TREASURY OF LYING
CRISIS? WHAT CRISIS?
STURGEON IGNORES ECONOMIC PLIGHT
Maybe researching and broadcasting the facts is our job.
Macart ,indeed they are utterly disreputable – you are usually the one who cheers me up with the current circulation figures , I am looking forward to them with relish!
Dorothy Devine
‘I am beginning to wonder if all rational folk have abandoned the paper’
They have indeed. I comment there from time to time, and am always struck how ludicrous and screechy the responses are.
The paper itself is on life support, with a skeleton staff squeezed into a wee office on Orchard Brae. Their flagship offices at Holyrood are now occupied by Rockstar North, of Grand Theft Auto fame.
Ruby says:
17 October, 2016 at 7:03 am
heedtracker & crazycat
You’ve made me blush!
Keep it come Ruby. We all know we have to wade through a crazy morass of Britnat red and blue tory media bullshit, every minute of every day. So everyone that disagrees with them makes a difference
link to youtube.com
Without Michael Moore, we wouldn’t have got the Edinburgh Agreement.
Closet indy? His career path subsequent to that might suggest others thought so.
Eyes popping out of his head; neck moving constantly in-and-out and sideways like a fragile robot subjected to a massive electrical surge; wringing his hands and twiddling his thumbs; Fluffy Mundell has all the hallmarks of a deceiver, and the way he pronounces “Scotland” reminds me of Flipper, who always calls it SCAW-tland.
I hope the people of Annan are taking notes.
I’m all for holding fibbers to account.Thats what this site is all about.Mr Mundell is a poor speaker at the best of times and struggles to articulate what he thinks.However,on this occasion he doesn’t know what to think.He hasn’t been told what to think because his managers have no idea what’s going on.In fact,I’ll contradict myself by saying Mr Mundell did very well in articulating the shambles that is Tory government policy.
@heedtracker says: 16 October, 2016 at 5:32 pm:
” … José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission”
The President of the EU Commission Is NOT NOW José Manuel Barroso.
The EU Commission are the EU’s Civil Servants and thus“Jean-Claude Juncker”, (The current EU President), along with the entire EU Commission, is responsible to the EU Parliament which can censure the President.
Jean-Claude Juncker, took office on 1 November 2014. He is a member of the European People’s Party (EPP) and is the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg.
As Commissioners, (that term means they are paid employees), they have no decision making powers and, in any case, every word published by the BBC and MSM that Barosso was claimed to have utter was always misquoted.
This is because Barosso himself invariably preceded his utterances with, ” … and I’m not specifically speaking of Scotland here.” or some other similar phrase.
Like most other things, regarding Scottish politics, what the BBC & MSM publish about Scotland is lying clap-trap and what Barosso in particular said should be disregarded by everyone because they were no more than his own personal opinions and not the opinions of either the EU or the EC.
call me dave says:8:48
Colin Fox, I wondered when he would resurface, interesting back story that chap! funny he should be running to the press to say SNP Bad, but maybe not, bit of a history of running to the papers, and to hell with the ideals he purports to support. Friend of Rupert, yes that a given but what other league of gentlemen is he in cohorts with.
I have said this before, and no doubt I will say this again, beware the lunatic fringe, especially those who have engendered themselves into positions of responsibility or influence, ” What Big Eyes You Have Mr Fox” “All The Better to Watch You With”.
Grouse Beater says: 9:05
” We have a fractured democracy in Scotland when our newspapers are reluctant to defend our civil rights”
The press on these islands have always played fast and loose, Journalistic integrity has been a stranger to the “Red Tops” what we see now is a dismantling of standards across the print and broadcasting media, this has been magnified by State involvement, occasionally glimpsed by actual investigative journalists like wiki leaks. (David Cameron leaning on Sony).
One safeguard should be the integrity of the journalists themselves, and their code of conduct. If we look at the he NUJ code of conduct 2011 revision it contains the following.
At all times upholds and defends the principle of media freedom, the right of freedom of expression and the right of the public to be informed. Strives to ensure that information disseminated is honestly conveyed, accurate and fair. Does her/his utmost to correct harmful inaccuracies. Differentiates between fact and opinion.
As virtuous as these principals are, let’s look at the American code, where they cover similar areas. (note the American code is far more complex)
Take responsibility for the accuracy of their work. Verify information before releasing it.
Use original sources whenever possible.
Remember that neither speed nor format excuses inaccuracy.
Provide context. Take special care not to misrepresent or oversimplify in promoting, previewing or summarising a story.
Gather, update and correct information throughout the life of a news story
Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable. Give voice to the voiceless.
Never deliberately distort facts or context, including visual information.
Now in America there is a position on the staff of both broadcast and print media called the “fact checker” wouldn’t that be a novel idea, even “Brides” magazine checks stories for accuracy! that may explain why generally speaking American journalism (FOX NEWS EXCEPTED) is now far superior to the outpourings of a “state broadcaster” who’s stated aim is the promotion of the State, through propaganda,and bloody Flag waving at every opportunity! In my opinion the BBC seriously damaged during the Scottish referendum campaign, has just continued unabated in its “war Footing”. Shame, they do have good science programs.
link to nuj.org.uk
link to spj.org
link to utne.com
Ihiw can anyone in their right mind believe Scotland has a £15Billion Deficit. The figures are their in but if the Scottish economy was managed differently there would be no deficit. The figures are under Westminster Gov management of Scottidh affairs,
Scotland pays off loans for the rest of the UK, nearly £4Billion, can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading’drink nearly £1Billion, pays for Trident nearly £1Billion, tax evasion nearly £3Billion (whisky companies tax evade – they pay no tax in Scotland), Scotland has lost at least £4Billion a year in Oil tax revenues. The total is £13Billion, The so called deficit is £15Billion.
Scotland lose CAP payments. Westminster took them. There would be higher fish quotas if the fisherman had used larger nets. They are now being used after SNP representation. I.e, Scottish Gov involvement in the negotiations. Thousands of Oil jobs were lost because of high Oil sector taxation when the price had fallen. (Osbourne) Scotland has lost EU renewable Grants because if Westminster indecision, Westminster refused permission and reneged on CCS projects. At Longannet and Peterhead. Westminster wasted a £300Billion Oil Fund. Scotland can’t borrow to invest in the economy. The rest of the UK borrows approx 25% NI gets another 50%. Norwegian funding levels. More taxes are collected in Scotland. £54Billion. Pro rata £42Billion is collected in the rest of the UK. That is not equal. The rest of the UK should pay increased taxes (parity) or make their own debt repayments.
Scotland has always been in surplus and would be in surplus now if not for Westminster policies. The Westminster Unionists have always damaged the Scottish economy. Thatcher secretly and illegally took the Oil revenues and built up London S/E. Tilbury Dock and Canary Wharf. Sold off utilities now owned by foreign State companies. Deregulated banking. Devastated manufacturing facilities. Coal,steel, smelter, vehicle manufacturing. Thatcher left over 3million unemployed and interest rates at 15%.
Labour illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion increased the debt to £1.7Trillion.
The Tories are back to ruin the world economy. So Tory multimillionaire tax evaders and their associates can plunder public funds and tax evade. Hinkley Point, HS2 and Trident are a total waste of money but Tories and their associates will plunder public funds in consultancies, fees, and banking charges etc. Foreign trade deals which will cost £Billions. The Tories will not fund the NHS or education properly.
Brexit has already wiped £Billions from the UK economy and will lose more. People’s standard of
living will lower and prices will rise. There could be higher unemployment. It is just despicable what the Tories are doing. The UK Is one of the most unequal, unfair places in the world, UK/US and France have caused the migrant crisis bombing the Middle East off years. Now they want to walk away without finding a solution. If every country in the EU took a quota of refugees that would help solve the proplem. 2 million into 500Million would be negligible. Hardly noticed.
That’s what you get for showing a guerilla. Voted off of ‘Strictly Come Dancing’. People who can’t dance shouldn’t read the ‘News’ but should pay their taxes. Hypocrite Prima Donnas.
BTUKOKers are cursed when it comes to facial hair.
Mundell’s velcro-beard, Michael White and Torrance frightening people with unusual growths, Ian Davidson…
And now someone at PQ has been very VERY naughty by giving John Swinney a tash as part of a doctored image which makes him look like Hitler. Looks like a crude photoshop with Swinney’s face and a very false-looking arm.
We need the bald truth about this. Peter Bell and others have already been discussing it on Twitter. I suggest that we now start using #TashGate to get this latest dod of fantashtic BBC sleakitness the attention it deserves.
(PS Anyone have a decent version of the image so that those who hasn’t seen it can give first impressions?)
The figures are there in the GERS but if Scotland’s economy was managed differently, as the majority in Scotland want, the figures would change. If the UK economy had been managed differently the UK would not be in so much debt caused by total mismanagement. Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud.
O/T
From the independent
I used to be against Scottish independence – but after Brexit, I think it’s the only hope for young people like me in the UK
link to archive.is
Arabs for Independence says:
17 October, 2016 at 9:18 am
Slightly O/T
It appears our state broadcaster has doctored a photo of John Swinney to make him look like hitler – truly disgraceful
link to twitter.com
Arabs for Independence says:
17 October, 2016 at 9:21 am
Re my post at 09:18
Mr Swinney has confirmed that his wedding ring is worn on his left hand – which can only mean that the photo of him has been deliberately reversed
How dare you say someone in Pacific Quay works actively against Scottish independence. It is obvious that John Swinney removed his wedding ring and put it on his right hand!! —or changed arms around? –would that make the thumb’s different?
Next news media discussion at Holyrood can MSP’s invite the Production team of Reporting Scotland, Call Kaye ETC.for a wee chat. Bring them out of the shadow into the light of democratic process
Sorry O/T but good news.
Just been to pick up my wife from Aldi, Anniesland, Glasgow.
Stopped to look at paper rack to see the “Blow to SNP, or, Sturgeon blasted” laughlines. What do I find but a solitary National. Get it in the trolley. So new in it’s not on the database. Maybe they will have 2 tomorrow.
Sent them an email to thank them. Try your local branches, people. I had a chat with the manager of this store a few months ago about it.
@Ian Brotherhood
Will this do?
link to twitter.com
Did I not see somewhere Wales’es , is that OK, grammar police, deficit of £16 billion.
Think I did.
Morrisons yesterday.
Sunday Heralds hidden behind Saturdays copies of the Evening times. Put them in front then watched an elderly gent put a Southern newspaper in front of them. I said to the guy that if he didn’t want to buy another paper (had the Sunday Times and Sunday Mirror in his trolley) he shouldn’t hide the Herald. He went away. I did my shop and returned to find the Sunday Heralds hidden again.
I am getting more annoyed by the unionist’s but I suppose it shows how worried they are.
@Nana –
Thanks. That’s the very one we were discussing last night.
At first I thought it was a straight mirror-image. As Peter Bell pointed out, it’s been treated to look like an old newspaper, and it’s monochrome. The wedding-ring being on the ‘wrong’ hand would prove that it’s been reversed.
If there is an ‘original’ image then it should be easy enough to source it, compare/contrast etc. But if it’s been photoshopped then there won’t be one ‘original’. Look at his arm. It looks fake, and oversized for the body. Look at the line where his ‘shoulder’ meets the collar of his jacket. It’s wrong.
And that’s before we even start on shadow analysis to work out where the ‘tash’ came from.
It stinks.
I hope Rev has a close look at this, and any ‘experts’ on this type of thing cast an eye over it too – BBC PQ may well have overplayed its hand with this sloppy rubbish and they must be held to account for it asap.
Hamish100 says:
17 October, 2016 at 10:54 am
Arabs for Independence says:
17 October, 2016 at 9:18 am
Slightly O/T
It appears our state broadcaster has doctored a photo of John Swinney to make him look like hitler – truly disgraceful
I love the Iron Cross detail they did on the tie? Sepia image and the change of angle, 10 out of 10, could have been worse, it could have been a tracksuit, blonde wig and medallion, after all the BBC loves a saville, why else cover his actions up for decades? Just so they could continue to re run top of the pops?
Hamish100 says:
11:05 am
Morrisons yesterday.
Name the branch please. and approximate time. Thanks
🙂
The deficit will certainly be used as route 1 reason to vote NO.
Yet, it is simple to explain.
Firstly what actually IS the deficit?
Well it’s the gap between total taxes and expenditure required.
So where’s the deficit the lowest?
Probably London and the SE.
Now London and the SE is the region associated with banking.
This is the sector bailed out massively by the public purse which enabled them to keep over inflated salaries and bonuses hence higher level of tax revenue.
Scotland has limited borrowing powers. Had it all the econimic levers we could easily invest in our export industry, create jobs and hence raise tax revenues.
It really is simple.
@Ian Brotherhood
I spotted it yesterday and yes it does stink. Someone tweeted the original photos where the bbc probably got it and without doubt it has been reversed and changed.
Do they not have form in this area, I seem to recall a picture of Alex Salmond in a similar pose.
link to bbc.co.uk
John Swinney- no wedding ring on right hand. Background screen looks different as well.
But where’s Kezia? Has anybody heard from her? What’s going on there?
I expect developments there.
Why don’t our S.N.P. Mps just keep their answers sort and simple imean when told how much Scotland is in debt and all the figures to prove it just say well that is the result of Westminster running our country and it is why we want independence but thanks for helping us with your figures
O/T
This is good
link to thebutterflyrebellion.scot
Keynote address by and Q&A with Donald TUSK, President of the European Council
link to ec.europa.eu
In case the above link does not work you can see it here
Hear Donald Tusk confirm that Article 50 notification can be revoked (about 25 minutes
link to twitter.com
Capella at 10am
Probably right and probably wise. Sometimes contesting bollocks merely allows the repetition of it and if you don not have control of the media in distribution that is dangerous.
Dave McEwan Hill @ 11.29
Sadly I don’t think at her age she will be developed any farther.
Oh dear wee shame that,never mind.
‘John Swinney- no wedding ring on right hand. Background screen looks different as well.’
Having seen the BBC doctored image, it would have been less hassle for the BBC if they had just used an actual photo of Hitler and put Johns name on it. Lol.
But given that the BBC is now legally required by law to uphold the union, they know they can be as biased and corrupt as they want against the SNP.
O/T again
Well well
link to chronicle.gi
Folks
Also regarding the deficit, £ have to be spent into circulation BEFORE it can be taxed. Tax take will be higher where £ are spent..
Nana @ 11.47
Well well,indeed Nana.
Look’s like wee ginger dug is spot on.
Spain’s priority is Gibraltar, and if there is any veto,ing to be done that’s where it will happen.
Not with Scotland the owner of all those fishing rights!!
A law of composition followed assiduously is photographs always look better when the human subject is looking in, rather than out. It strengthens the image, stopping the reader following the portrait’s gaze off and beyond the page.
‘Mirror switching’ is common practice.
But I have no doubt in my mind that the ‘photay’ in question was chosen to give it a subliminal message.
Why make it monochrome, as if an archaic archival shot?
The Swinney photo, anyone got a link to the original?
Liz: “Spain’s priority is Gibraltar, and if there is any vetoing to be done that’s where it will happen.”
Will be there again this week on conference. Will ask Gibraltarians what they feel about Brit betrayal – 95% of electorate voted, 88% voted Remain. Will report in my next site essay.
So as Pacific Quay gimps turn John Swinney into Adolf Hitler, probably trying to outdo BBC Breakfast show’s Nic Sturgeon’s an escaped Gorilla last week, Oxford Professor Ngaire Woods on a Brexit UK’s position in Trade deal negotiations,
link to youtube.com
Grouse Beater @ 12.05
Will look forward to it.
I always enjoy your articles
Especially the ones on the Constution,ma wee personal hobbi horse.
BBC Scotland now referring to EU as a “Bloc”. Trying to insinuate its like a totalitarian state to tarnish remain.
“For Jews in post-Brexit Britain, German citizenship no longer verboten
Descendants of those who fled Hitler rethinking long-held beliefs about a country that once sought to destroy their families”
Anyone who is entitled to an EU passport, should grab it!
link to timesofisrael.com
Good grief
RT statement
“Our accounts in UK have been closed. All Accounts. ‘The decision is not subject to revision’…freedom of speech!”
@RTUKnews
The UK has frozen all bank accounts owned by Russia’s state-run broadcaster, Russia Today (RT), its editor-in-chief has claimed.
Margarita Simonyan tweeted: “They’ve closed our accounts in Britain. All our accounts. ‘The decision is not subject to review.’ Praise be to freedom of speech!”
Scott Borthwick , delighted to hear they are working out of a cupboard!
OT just watched Angela Eagle on Daily Politics boy! has someone been working on a makeover!!
@Nana
link to rt.com
@ Nana – I noticed last night that Julian Assange’s internet has been suspended too. Scary stuff.
link to on.rt.com
Could RBS be retaliating for the Kaiser Report Episode 980:
“Max and Stacy are joined by Joel Benjamin, local authority debt audit campaigner with Debt Resistance UK, and Nigel Henderson, who lost his hotel business to RBS’s restructuring division, to talk of the ‘stunned commoners’ in awe (at the brazenness) of the Royal… Bank of Scotland. Nigel recounts his own encounter with RBS’s smash and grab unit which saw him lose his hotel in Scotland. They discuss the tens of billions in fines the bank, taxpayer-owned RBS, faces from US authorities for the bank’s role in the mortgage backed securities fraud and whether or not there will be anything left for compensation of the thousands of small and medium sized enterprises destroyed in the UK.”
link to rt.com
Liz: Will look forward to it.”
You’re welcome. 🙂
MoD to buy £3bn armored vehicle fleet from Germany – report
French steel for our subs.
What happened to my first comment on these stories.
Scott Borthwick , delighted to hear they are working out of a cupboard!
OT just watched Angela Eagle on Daily Politics boy! has someone been working on a makeover!!
I keep getting that duplicate comment statement .
It’s getting quite hard to find a copy of the National these days. It seems to have disappeared from a few of its usual outlets. Either it’s distribution is crap, and it is not keeping up with demand, or something fishy is going on. 🙁
Dr NO! takes time out from his busy day of tweeting Nic Sturgeon and Mhairi Black bad. He’s not a Doctor and he thinks Scots are idiots,
link to archive.is
“I was one of the many Scots who in the aftermath of the EU referendum moved from being sceptical of the benefits of independence to being willing to consider it. I believed and trusted Nicola Sturgeon when she said she would only act in Scotland’s interests,”
And if you swallow that latest load of Dr NO! con, can I interest you in my very lucrative Bernie Madoff portfolio? Bless him for trying to do a BBC vote NO Scotland style shyste though.
ooops!
Capella says:12:35 pm
Could RBS be retaliating for the Kaiser Report Episode 980
RBS senior management are in the process of arranging the next tranche of redundancies for 2017, this time it is said to be “substantial” “Brutal” and “widespread”,
This along with HMRC who have their own secret downsizing department burning the midnight oil, should see major redundancies on a scale not seen in both organisations.
The RBS are outsourcing to India, contact negotiations are well underway, Funny Old World their recent add campaign portrays the “Scottish” card rather too well don’t you think?
Taken from off topic
Scotland’s External Affairs Minister Fiona Hyslop said: “The reaction to Scotland now is not the same as the reaction in 2014.
“One very senior European politician has said to us: ‘We didn’t understand why you wanted to be independent in 2014, but we understand now.’”
Scott @ 12.40
I think your comment is on the last thread.
The armaments build up, the illegal low flying exercises in Strathmore, the censorship and propaganda, Brexit and the regime change.
Something’s definitely afoot.
Is