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Letting the days go by

Posted on June 18, 2020 by

BBC Scotland, then and now.

We’re pretty sure they used the same “separating rival groups” phrasing at Tianenmen Square too, but we’d have to go and check. Meanwhile, here’s what really happened.

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    1. 18 06 20 10:56

      Letting the days go by | speymouth

    2. 18 06 20 21:31

      Letting the days go by –

    276 to “Letting the days go by”

    1. Alasdair Macdonald says:

      Of course, their spokes-toadies will justify them as fulfilling their requirement to be even-handed.

    2. Morgatron says:

      They are truly awful – blood pressure was on 100% after reading their misrepresentation . Also, why is there not a photo of the yoons , is it because there are too many non Covid related face masks and butchers aprons fluttering? As you said, letting the days go by , still protecting these facist bastards.

    3. Republicofscotland says:

      This seems appropriate.

      The racist unionist thugs were back in Glasgow’s George Sq last night, beating up those who were standing up for asylum seekers, whilst bellowing out Rule Britannia.

      Meanwhile Home secretary Priti Patel has links with anti-BLM group.

    4. Capella says:

      Reminds me of Maidan in the Ukraine too. These “rival groups” are everywhere and journalists keep their mouths tightly shut. Well they might be next. The truth doesn’t set you free. It lands you in court or unemployable.

    5. susan says:

      Huh, so much for the police! Taking the easy way out…again.

    6. Sinky says:

      Its time the Scottish Media called out these extreme UNIONISTS and British Nationalists who were signing Rule Britannia a fact not reported by any of the MSM / BBC etc.

      The SNP spokespeople are mealy mouthed in merely blaming far right grouping and avoid saying the word Unionist.

      The opponents of self government are quick to condemn SNP / Cybernats at the slightest indiscretion and several try to link the SNP with Sinn Fein.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      It was the Orange Order. Supplemented by Racists from a famous football club. The end.

      Anything else is a downright misrepresentation of fact.

      They don’t just live among us. They are protected and tolerated in case it causes sectarian violence across the land if they are upset.

      Newsflash____They are already causing chaos.

    8. Famous15 says:

      Hearing these thugs shouting about Fenian bastards between mouthfuls of Rule Britannia and God Save the Queen i looked up the history of the Fenians.

      Now I was raised in Glasgow in the Protestant tradition and went to a “Protestant” school in the West End.

      I find a lot in common with the Fenians!

    9. Sensibledave says:

      @Scot Finlayson, @Jfngw and @Sinky

      … I replied to your comments at the bottom of the previous thread.

    10. Athanasius says:

      It may or may not be true, but I stopped reading at the first use of the word “fascist”.

    11. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      They are “Only obeying orders” at the BBC (even protecting fascism is OK if it is BritNat Fascism!)

      They are apparently unaware that this defence was found to be no longer enough to escape punishment at Nuremberg.

      Royal Charter for the continuance of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

      6. The Public Purposes

      (4) “…….. help contribute to the SOCIAL COHESION and WELLBEING of the United Kingdom.”

      my Caps!

      Think The Pentagon may have had the BBC vs Scottish Self Determination in mind when it tried to have Journalists covered as “unprivileged belligerents” in its warfare manual in 2015.

    12. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      It most certainly is true @ Athanasius says at 10:37 am

      Can I ask why you ”stopped reading at the first use of the word “fascist”.”

      Fascism = belief that there is strength through unity

      British Nationalism = Fascism

      Modern One Nation Conservatism = Fascism

      Or do you disagree?

    13. Iain says:

      Interesting that the unionists were ‘a large number of people’ and the independence supporters were a ‘group’. No BBC bias there then …

    14. Joe says:

      n. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

    15. Joe says:

      Might as well get the definition sorted before everyone goes batshit and throwing it around.

    16. Athanasius says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker

      I stopped reading at “fascist” because the generally used definition of fascism today is “anyone who doesn’t see things my way”. It has become a term of abuse and manipulation, nothing more, and when I see it used with such easy facility, then, to quote an actual fascist, I reach for my revolver.

      I believe in an independent Scotland. Does that make me a nationalist? Yes. Am I therefore a fascist? By your definition, yes. As it does you, since, presumably, you believe in Scottish unity. Never mind that, say, Ghandi was a nationalist who believed in Indian unity. That makes him a fascist. You beginning see my problem? When somebody uses the word “fascist” to describe people they disagree with, I immediately question that person’s reliablity.

    17. Sinky says:

      Rule Britannia clearly heard here

      Which media outlet will report this?

    18. Athanasius says:


      What you’re describing is actually a variant of Communism, the same way as Leninism, Trotskyism and Stalinism. It is a correct definition, but it only makes sense when you understand that fascism is a thing of the left, not of the right.

    19. wullie says:

      Famous15 says:

      Brought up in Dalmuir and Clydebank. I went to a state school, there were no protestant schools. Only Catholic schools or State schools.

    20. Joe says:


      I do agree. But im using that basic reference so people dont go apeshit and start attributing fascism to everything that disagrees with a liberal left world view.

    21. Ottomanboi says:

      Irish rep wins seat on UN sec. council. What a prize!
      The UN is a collection of shiny arsed ineffectual national functionaries living it large in NYC.
      Just the place for La Sturgeon too.

    22. Josef Ó Luain says:

      The behaviour of the Scottish news-media is hardly worth commenting on any longer. The real question is: how influential is the garbage and the lies it produces? If the SNP’s electoral successes and current poll-ratings are to be believed: not very influential at all. Scottish journalism, which has always been provincial and reactionary, shows all the signs of having willfully reduced itself, over the years, to the role of an irritating flying insect of the non-stinging variety.

    23. Famous15 says:

      Wullie hence the quotation marks!

    24. susan says:

      I agree with you Athanasius, fascism is, like transphobia, a word so overused in modern parlance as to be meaningless. Though it is meant to stop dissent in it’s tracks, one of those ‘ no-debate’ mantras.

    25. A Person says:


      “Fascism” can be over-used but in this case would be the accurate word.

      In order to hide their economic failures, since 2010 and especially since 2016 the Tories have pandered to racism. Please remember that the far right ASSASSINATED AN MP IN HER CONSTITUENCY in 2016.

      In Scotland we would rather tackle these concerns in a different way and came close to achieving our independence in 2014. The Orange element saw this as an affront to their(long-gone in reality) identity and reacted badly. This has been exploited by the upper classes who are worried about their rents and dividends in an independent Scotland.

      The utter uselessness of English liberals has not helped matters.

      Some things in modern Britain are spookily similar to 1930s Spain.

    26. robertknight says:

      The Orcs loose on the streets of our largest city again – knuckle dragging mouth breathers could’ve easily been ‘kettled’ in the square for a few hours and had the pigeons shit all over them.

      Oops. Silly me. What was I thinking. Their pals are the ones in uniform.

      Who knows, next time the authorities could decide to get tough and bring in the Army. After all, the Royal Regiment of Scotland already know the Ibrox ‘Bouncy Bouncy’; a real crowd-pleaser looking at the videos on YouTube.

      Doesn’t it make you feel ‘proud’ to be Scottish? Anyone got a passport for sale? Not bothered which type, just so long as ‘UK’ doesn’t appear on it! I feel an urgent and overwhelming desire to GTFOH.

    27. Mist001 says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker

      “Fascism = belief that there is strength through unity”

      So, what are you saying? The independence movement is fascist?

      No in fact, I take that back. That’s EXACTLY what you are saying.

    28. wullie says:

      Famous15 says
      Apologies, auld age does not come alone

    29. A Person says:


      Well said that man. As a “mongrel” I have very strong feelings about this issue.

      There’s no place for ANY religion in ANY school. It’s obscene that in 2020 barriers are put up between people like this. Even worse that criticism of it is portrayed as sectarian when it is the very opposite.

    30. Capella says:

      @ Athanasius & Joe – which dictionary are you using? Fascism is always understood as a far right phenomenon:

      Fascism (/?fæ??z?m/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.æ?,in%20early%2020th-century%20Europe.

    31. A Person says:

      Robert Knight-

      I share your sentiments re: getting away from here. I don’t see much hope for Britain in the next twenty years, and sadly I think we’ll be shackled to it for quite a while.

    32. Iain More says:

      Anybody who doesn’t think the BBC are protecting Brit Fascists and Brit Nazis and Brit Racists needs a brain transplant. I don’t much care for spurious definitions.

      The Brit Nats and Orange thugs and the Loyalists, well call them what you want but those present at George Square are Nazis, Fascists and Racists and the BBC is now a mirror of the German Press and Media in the 1930’s. Goebbels would be proud of them.

      Oh and stick Godwin s Law where the sun doesn’t shine. These anti Scottish Nazis, anti Scottish Fascists and anti Scottish Racist thugs need to be called out for what they are. The BBC obviously isn’t and nor are the rest of the so called obsequious Scottish Press and Media with one or two possible exceptions.

    33. Joe says:


      If you go by the understanding that mandatory collectivism is left and individualism/voluntarism is right its how you get to that. Many wouldnt agree though.

    34. Joe says:

      @Iain More

      ‘spurious definitions’. Lol.

      Your right about the press though. However its more accurate to say they will punt any shit that serves the cause they serve at any particular moment.

    35. Capella says:

      In fact, the Glasgow Times did say “racist thugs” disrupt the asylum protest. Subtitle, “Loyalist group clashes with cops in George Square”.
      But the BBC newspaper review blurb reframes that as:

      The Glasgow Times reports that “angry thugs” clashed with asylum rights protesters in George Square.

      Even though the actual text is clearly visible. At least they didn’t use the black redacting pen.

    36. Cag-does-thinking says:

      It was notable that while the first altercations were going on the print media Record and Sun at least reported something was going on (in much the way they do that There’s a large police presence in McGlumpha Street. ohh wait it’s a another NHS conga) from the so called broadcast media there was a complete blackout even as they covered the Millwall fans at the Cenotaph in their English section.

      It’s almost like they had been told to look the other way.

    37. Ottomanboi says:

      Remind me, what was all that western fuss about Muslims and covered faces.
      With politics, as in so many other fields you get what you choose, crap in, crap out.

    38. Peter Campbell says:

      Can there be any doubt now about the BBC being the propaganda vehicle we have long suspected it was?

      To say there were rival groups clashing is just an out and out lie that is EASILY disproven and yet they publish their rubbish anyway.

      Will anyone in a position of power take them to task?

    39. Breeks says:

      Fascism is tricky to define because some things can be “a wee bit” fascist, or full-on mental fascist, and what is fascist to one, might not be perceived as fascist by someone else.


      You can use this article as a kind of colour chart checklist, or an objective yardstick for comparison.

      If a situation ticks one or two boxes, maybe it’s premature to describe it as fascist, or even proto-fascist.

      However, if you’re in a scenario where you’re not just ticking one or two of these boxes, but underlining all 14 of them in permanent marker and colouring them in with a highlighter, then it’s probably fair to assume it is real-deal Fascism you’re dealing with.

      Is the UK Fascist? Hmmm… draw your own conclusions. Now where did I put my luminous highlighters…. In fact, where about do you buy stone cutting chisels?…


      I thought Boris Johnson getting an RAF aircraft sprayed red, white and blue was a spoof, but it’s true. That’s half the fascist checklist ticked off already!

      Just like I thought a £1 billion Trade Deal for boomerangs and TamTam’s was a spoof, but that’s true. Tunnocks and TamTams will soon be passing in mid-air over China in a gaudy coloured Boris 747.

      Maybe I need a fourteen point checklist to determine what a spoof is…

      Maybe it’s all a dream. Are we Independent yet? Or is Nicola still in charge?

      There’s never a wee highland coup aboot when you really, really, need one…

    40. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The Police very rarely take a strong stand against the Orange brethren. During Orange parades the Police do not deploy sufficient officers, saves money, the officers deployed to accompany the Orange people are reluctant to make arrests as every arrest reduces the already low numbers of officers by two.

      There is also the fact that there still is a strong whiff of masonry among the white male British senior officers who direct events.

      There is a lack of competence and an unwillingness to get involved by many police officers now due to a mixture of things.

      Police officers pay and conditions have been hugely eroded we now reap what we have sowed. Many Police officers now see their job as a temporary post while awaiting a proper job with good pay and conditions.

      If there was any interest the Police should have CCTV evidence and should pursue the offenders, they could take some officers off the Alex Salmond enquiry if they are now free.

    41. CameronB Brodie says:

      “It may or may not be true, but I stopped reading at the first use of the word “fascist”.”

      Fascism on the rise: where does it come from, and how to stop it, with a common European response

    42. Capella says:

      FM’s statement in Scottish Parliament not being broadcast today from Unusually. She is updating us on the next phase of lockdown which is important to all of us.
      It is being broadcast on RScotland.

    43. Sensibledave says:


      … its secretly being broadcast, nationally… on BBC 2 News.

    44. Auld Rock says:

      Usual suspects and thugs from the ‘Ibrox Rent-a-Mob’.

    45. Capella says:

      @ sensibledave – I don’t usually respond to snide comments but in this case I will say – I don’t pay the TV tax and, being law abiding, will not watch BBC programmes illegally.

    46. MaggieC says:

      Capella @ 12.38 pm

      BBC Scotland channel 9 on freeview is broadcasting live from Scottish Parliament .

    47. Sensibledave says:


      … I dont live in Scotland, but, for some reason, the BBC thinks it is important for me to listen to the First Minister of another country in the other country’s Parliament, read out a speech, about rules and regulations that apply to folk in that country. Tut, the Beeb, useless aren’t they.

    48. Athanasius says:

      Somebody on the thread above isn’t big on self-awareness. Care to guess who it is?

    49. MaggieC says:

      Jackson “ Carcrash “ Carlaw being a total ar*e again in Scottish Parliament just now replying to Nicola and next up will be “ Tricky Dicky “ Leonard and no doubt he’ll be another ar*e when he starts as well .

    50. Capella says:

      @ Maggie C – yes I know but I don’t have a licence so don’t watch BBC TV broadcasts – nor iPlayer since they extended the licence scheme to that.

      The livestream from the Scottish Parliament is now restored so enjoying watching NS putting Jackson Carlaw in his place.

    51. MaggieC says:


      Scottish Parliament Tv seems to be ok now and broadcasting live now .

    52. MaggieC says:

      @ Capella ,

      Sorry I missed your post , it’s always a delight to see Carlaw and Leonard put in their place .

    53. Capella says:

      @ Maggie C – indeed – whatever criticism anyone might have about Nicola Sturgeon she certainly stands head and shoulders above the unionists. She is always on top of her brief.

      Pleased to hear that people in England are being given the chance to listen to a competent politician.

    54. jfngw says:


      I’ve often wondered about the streaming parliament TV and whether a licence is required. I’ve searched online but not been able to find a definitive answer, the licensing website is very vague and merely states live broadcasts. Is it a live broadcast or a CCTV stream (which is exempt).

    55. callmedave says:

      That “world beating tracing app” that Boris said! ….update.

      In a major U-turn, UK govt is abandoning the underpinnings of its existing coronavirus-tracing app and switching to a model based on technology provided by Google and Apple:

    56. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Sensibledave at 12:59 pm.

      You don’t do irony, do you?

      You typed,

      I dont live in Scotland, but, for some reason, the BBC thinks it is important for me to listen to the First Minister of another country in the other country’s Parliament, read out a speech, about rules and regulations that apply to folk in that country. Tut, the Beeb, useless aren’t they.

      I dont live in England, but, for some reason, the BBC thinks it is important for me to listen to the Prime Minister of another country in the other country’s Parliament, read out a speech, about rules and regulations that apply to folk in that country. Tut, the Beeb, useless aren’t they.

    57. Sandy says:

      Did I just mis-hear BBC Scotland refer to the English government as WISEMINSTER. Surely not!

    58. Capella says:

      @ jfngw – AFAIK livestreaming is not covered by the licence scheme. If it was I suppose Skype and Zoom would be too.

    59. defo says:

      I do like your musically based headlines Stu.
      An alternative here?
      National Front disco, by the naughty old scamp of pop Mozzer.

    60. Clapper57 says:

      The activities of the Thugee’s were downplayed in both the late night (short) editions of Reporting Scotland and STV news…with each of these ‘Scottish’ news shorts downgrading the significance of this Thugee event to third slot …..basically because their focus was to once again rehash the old standard….

      “Critics say”..”opposition say”….to the latest attack on the Scottish Government….via stories they had ALREADY covered in the main editions of their programmes earlier that night…at 6pm and 6.30pm.

      The outside world may be fooled….either willingly or through ignorance….but to Scots…especially Glaswegians….it will have been crystal clear who these ‘protesters’ in George Square represented….after all Scotland has to endure their marches of Hate at various locations…..which, let’s be honest, are like a circus coming to town parade…but one where the parade is full of clowns.

      I noted last night a tweet from a female Journalist advising Scotland that WE TOO had our fair share of Far right activists …the inference being that we cannot continue to be smug and assume we Scots were more tolerant than our Southern neighbours……

      Aye Hen that’s like trying to teach yir Grandmother to suck eggs….if you think Scots have been oblivious to the SHAME within their country….but what you should have identified is the ‘Far Right activity’ is on the Unionist side and it’s religion dictates who they vote for in elections…..indeed the only hope an independence party would have of their vote is if the independence party called themselves the 1690’s party……and some of the thicker element could not resist ticking the box next to that number in the voting booth on an election day……

      Let’s allow the BBC to manipulate perception because the reality is Scots are not so daft to think the events of Sunday and last night were anything other than yet another outing for ‘Da peeple’…and it was glorious that they sung Rule Britannia to forge who they had an allegiance to…..not independence for Scotland but t’other side…..

      BTW not checked Twitter today but I believe the Tory party in Scotland did NOT comment on last night’s extreme activities by the extremely violent ‘activists’ who we suspect (Know) make up a part of their, the Tories, vote within Scotland…have they, the Tories, commented on Sunday’s atrocious behaviour yet ?

      The skewed misrepresentation of last night and Sunday’s angry Unionist rent a mob behaviour by the media shows a gross failing yet again to REPORT the news…..but instead a blatant attempt to HIDE the TRUTH and PRESENT not the FACTS but instead to OBSCURE the REALITY of what happened…..

      You see the important dimension in Scotland is that tis Unionists against those who seek Independence…and that frames ALL the media’s reporting….one side gets the bad press,ignored and the negative labels and t’other is downplayed and it’s despicable actions are misrepresented as the opposite of what they really really do represent……the ugly face of Unionism.

      The clue as to why this always happens is in the NAME…….that is ‘BRITISH’ Broadcasting Company….and I assume that as for STV news the ‘Scottish’ part in their title is window dressing as they are owned by the ITV Group…STV is their Scottish franchise….’Franchise’….well STV are certainly fulfilling their contract in ‘acting as an agent’ for the ITV Group based in you know where……Britain also know as England …..for many.

      So we know where the problem lies do we not….Indeed we do.

    61. jfngw says:


      You are correct, just realised I didn’t read this page properly.

      Just I’d previously seen online comments that to watch some Amazon Prime content which is live you need a licence, not sure what as as far as I know it is a streaming only service.

    62. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Clapper57 at 2:15 pm.

      You typed,
      and I assume that as for STV news the ‘Scottish’ part in their title is window dressing as they are owned by the ITV Group…STV is their Scottish franchise…

      STV isn’t owned by ITV – it operates the licences in Scotland for STV Central and STV North.

      ITV Border, previously Border Television and commonly referred to as simply Border, is the Channel 3 service provided by ITV Broadcasting Limited for the England/Scotland border region, covering most of Cumbria, Dumfries and Galloway, the Scottish Borders and parts of Northumberland.

    63. Sensibledave says:


      … I am guessing that “irony” and “humour” are not your strong suits!

    64. Effijy says:

      There’ll be Blue Thugs over refugees from Dover!

      World War 2 Soldiers died to defeat a nation’s Leander
      Who controlled the press, who closed down parliament,
      Who attacked the disabled, who was a racist and who refused
      to accept United Nations resolutions.

      Now they find Boris doing exactly the same things!

      The Nazi Germany that the allied forces overcame then developed into
      Europe’s strongest economy, a country with a pension 4 times better than the UK,
      a country that was able to welcome over 1,000,000 refugees, a country with a Covid
      Survival rate 5 times better than the UK.

    65. Lochside says:

      The BBC in a couple of days went from describing the OO scum as ‘hundreds of people’ ‘protecting the Cenotaph ( including those coloured commonwealth dead?) and Robert Peels’ statue ( from who?) while the present day ‘Peelers’ stood staring at the cretinous crew until a ‘counter’ group appeared and ….nobody was arrested.
      Day 4 and now the ‘people’ or should it be ‘Wearra peoppul’ are now the’National’ Defence League. This time, larger numbers allowed to congregate with clear intention of attacking anybody that does not have a blue nose or a white face. Meanwhile the plods stand around knowing full well that a legitimate march against the maltreatment of asylum seekers is moving to George sQ,. WITH THE INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCES.

      Over the past 6 x years since the same scurvy crew turned up and assaulted dozens of defenceless Indy supporters at the same venue, this mob have attacked two legitimate Irish Republican marches ( whether you like them or not) and also attacked the police. During the same period, their endless marches have been permitted to clog up our city streets with their bitter effluence and hatred. No counter demonstrations allowed. Yet they have been permitted to stand and harangue Indy Yes marches at every occasion with impunity whilst spouting racist anti Scottish hatred.

      Police Scotland appear impotent in the face of sectarian and racist mobilisation. Various Ibrox associated hooligans have known links with Ulster loyalist thugs. Yet Police Scotland let a large march of these thugs wearing masks march to Ibrox last year.There was no Covid 19 then, only intimidatory proto fascist posturing.

      Consider the reasons given for these ‘peepul’ being in the square in the first place.: to protect the Cenotaph…these dullards unaware of Scotland’s unequal sacrifice in both wars… 1/5 of all Commonwealth dead…St. Vallery’s 80th anniversary a couple of days previously, when the Highland Division was sacrificed by Churchill to get English and French troops off the Dunkirk beaches for political reasons….are the same people who raise nazi salutes at every opportunity…see footage of Sept.19th 2014…

      They wrap themselves in the Union Flag..the same crowd that have wreaked devastation in so many cities in England, their England follow following their corrupt club.

      Why then instead of NS and Humza Useless tweeting the usual faux outrage as ‘women are battered in plain sight ( see tweet above) and our city is disfigured with these cavemen not once but multiple times. What are Police Scotland doing about this national disgrace and more to the point, this existential threat to our liberty?.

      These thugs are gearing themselves up to stop us at all cost. Next year and the elections are looming This is the early stage of their wargame manoeuvers. Their handlers and agent provocaters must be hunted down and held to account. Can we expect our ‘government’ and police force to be strong enough to do it?

    66. jfngw says:

      The Tory front bench looked a bit tired and jaded today, had they been having a day out on the square yesterday?.

    67. callmedave says:

      ‘No trace’.. 🙂 … of any BBC web site figures for England again today but the other nations have had their numbers reported by auntie.

      The SUN can tell you the numbers in Greece ,Arizona. S. Korea and have an unofficial number for England so.
      UK number just now on a news flash.

      N. Ireland….today…00…..Total…..543….BBC
      UK…………today..135…..Total…42288….BBC Live news flash

    68. Republicofscotland says:

      “Police Scotland appear impotent in the face of sectarian and racist mobilisation.”


      I have a couple of neighbours who are serving police officers, and from what I’ve garnered from them in conversations is that they are unionists and Rangers fans. I’m not saying that all police officers in Scotland are, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority were, hence their lack of urgency to do anything meaningful on occasions like that.

    69. Scozzie says:

      Unionist violent thugs, what a scourge on Scotland. It’s a decades old blight that has not been tackled by police, government, councils and football authorities.How reminiscent of their ‘so called’ win in Sept 2014!

      But what’s most scary is that these people (no matter the social and economic fallout of destructive austerity and economic disaster looming with Brexit) just can’t see beyond Rule Britannia.

      And the media – downplaying using language like ‘both sides’, ‘rival protesters clash’ etc. What on earth is the Scottish Government thinking of propping up the mainstream media to the tunes of millions. Get a fucking grip!!!! Let these reptile rags die a well deserved death. If there’s any decent journalists out there please stand up and report on and write actual facts!

      What seems apparent is that there’s still an ugly underbelly of British Nationalist sentiment running through the veins of Scotland that’s not just pro-Union but sheer far-right violent thuggery. Time for the government to tackle the OO and stamp out Sectarianism once and for all.

    70. robertknight says:

      Lochside @ 3:22

      “Police Scotland appear impotent in the face of sectarian and racist mobilisation”

      Looking at events you’d be forgiven for concluding that it’s not simply appearance but policy, albeit unwritten. Might as well put cardboard cutout cops on the streets – just as useful and a damned site cheaper.

    71. Republicofscotland says:

      On Police Scotland would it be fair to say that they are a colonial police force, as part of this so called union? The Scottish government were prepared to send 300 Police Scotland officers to Northern Ireland a while back there, at whose request, certainly not Sturgeons, so it must have been London’s.

      Police Scotland can kettle placid demonstrators, as we’ve all seen on the TV, but, fear to tread against unionist thugs as in last night’s episode, or the ripping of the Saltire, from a young girls hand in George Sq after the 2014 referendum (the officers own country’s flag, or is it, refer to my 3.41pm comment).

      No I serious doubts about Police Scotland, and who they really represent, and where their political affiliations lie.

    72. defo says:

      Try asking who ra polis swear allegiance to maybe?

    73. jfngw says:

      Alan Sugar is calling for us to follow the US lead and get back to work.

      He is being vaunted as some great manufacturing guru. He produced cheap tat, nothing original but metoo stuff that was just low cost crap. I remember looking into one of his ‘stacking’ stereos, it wasn’t a stack but a bit hardboard with some grooves in it to make it look like one. Inside was not much more than you have found in a cheap transistor radio, tiny board and it sounded even worse.

      A sort of British Bang and Overheating, except you wouldn’t want anyone to see you owned one, I’ve never actually owned a Bang and Olufsen, too pricey.

      The British way, made a Lord for producing cheap tat, anyone think of a Scottish equivalent in the lords?

    74. jfngw says:

      Muriel Gray thinks it’s just the lockdown that has caused the explosion of bigotry and racism in the loyalist community.

      Has she lost the plot or has she always been a grifter?

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      IMHO, Muriel Gray is a typical creation and prisoner of habitus. 😉

      Religion and Social Class: Theory and Method After Bourdieu

    76. Republicofscotland says:

      “Muriel Gray thinks it’s just the lockdown that has caused the explosion of bigotry and racism in the loyalist community.”


      Gray, she’s the one who headed up the Glasgow School of Art, and the sheer and utter incompetency surrounding it’s burning down, so Gray’s opinion on anything should be taken with a pinch of salt.

      She should stick to bagging munros, or better still Corbetts.

    77. Clydebuilt says:


      Individual police may be Rangers supporters and Unionists, however If their superiors wanted the Statue protectors deterred from their actions and where they break the law arrested, then that is what would happen.

      The Police are not weak. They follow orders.

    78. Republicofscotland says:

      “STV isn’t owned by ITV – it operates the licences in Scotland for STV Central and STV North.”


      It’s chaired by a Tony Blair appointed ex-Labour peer. The Baroness is also the chair of the Buckingham Palace Reservicing Challenge Board.,_Baroness_Ford

    79. Republicofscotland says:

      “The Police are not weak. They follow orders.”

      Clyde built.

      Of course Police Scotland are not weak, they’re a tool to be weilded when required, I was musing over whether individual police officers affiliations play a part on how heavy they come down on certain groups, and whether or not the Scottish government are compelled to deploy those officers out with Scotland at the behest of London, and can that be seen as a colonial act.

    80. jfngw says:

      Jackson Carlaw 5th May in response to Boris Johnson promising a ‘world beating’ track and trace app by the 1st June.

      ‘We need to know that Nicola Sturgeon will be working with a UK-wide app for test, trace and isolate.’

      He promised the Tories he was a Ferrari when elected leader but it turns out he is an Austin Allegro.

    81. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Pretty sure the fishing operation to garner evidence in the Salmond case, and the fact this “Salmond Squad” were mentioned in regards to the forthcoming trials of Craig Murray and Mark Hirst show exactly what Police Scotland and The COPFS are all about.

      Protect BritNats and the Establishment.

      Persecute supporters of Scottish Independence and Constitutional Change.

    82. defo says:

      Hole in one.
      Not a new phenomenon, it’s inherent.

    83. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Wave all the Trolls gone?

      Has The Rev raided his stockpile of this stuff?

    84. callmedave says:

      Hancock there spending money on the Cambridge ‘vaccination’ drug still in the experimental stage “on the off-chance that it works”
      he said so that “we will have adequate supply of stock”.

      Then brushes off the ‘world beating tracing app failure’ as a mere bagatelle and says “the good old NHS tracing method is doing well”


      I’ve got colour tv and he never blushed… I should turn up the contrast if I could find it! 🙂

    85. Clydebuilt says:


      I’m wonderring if Police Scotland can be controlled from Westminister, where they can override Holyrood. Then we frequently hear Scot Gov. Ministers boast they take no part in directing the Police.

      Police Federation (ca,um Steel) saying both sides breaking tge law. . . . On Social distancing.
      Thugs rampage and these idiots concentrate on that.

    86. robertknight says:


      Bought and sold…

    87. Col.Blimp IV says:

      This stuff here is probably more to his liking.

    88. B Griffiths says:

      When are you coming back to Twitter Stu? You’re missed!

    89. callmedave says:

      Ah! The Northern Irish Gov sends sends children back to school social distancing reduced for them to 1M.

      Solves a lot of problems.

      Mind you, they have a good track record on corona virus deaths so they they have weighed up the risk and gone for it.

      5 will get you 10 that we will all be doing it soon.

    90. twathater says:

      MSM reporting pish and lies , NS and Humza Useless tweeting their disgust online ,but NOT using their £3 million subsidy MSM to voice their opinions to the Scottish people and reassure them that there will be actions taken against these vile agressive perpetrators . Value for money 00000 , remind me again Nicola Sturgeon’s GRAND secret plan

    91. Beaker says:

      @callmedave says:
      18 June, 2020 at 5:27 pm
      “Then brushes off the ‘world beating tracing app failure’ as a mere bagatelle and says “the good old NHS tracing method is doing well”

      Wish I hadn’t made a bloody joke about it last night…
      Must buy a lottery ticket this weekend. More chance of winning that!

    92. Republicofscotland says:

      “I’m wonderring if Police Scotland can be controlled from Westminister, where they can override Holyrood”


      It wouldn’t surprise me one little bit if that were the case, the appointing of Phil Gormley as our Chief Constable, from the Met, probably the most corrupt police force in the world, when there must have been competent Scottish candidates struck me as unusual.

    93. Republicofscotland says:

      One time branch manager of Labour in Scotland Ian Gray is to quit Holyrood. Gray if memory serves is remembered for ducking into a Subway food outlet, or a similar type shop to hide and avoid probing questions.

      I think and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, that Gray was also slapped down by his peers for describing a lady in a salacious way, during a presentation in the Glasgow city council building in George Sq.

      Other than the above Gray in my opinion has been nothing more than unionist gadfly.

    94. Sinky says:

      BBC news / police blaming “known football supporters” for George Square riot. It is more sinister than that but Scottish media is afraid to call out sectarianism and extreme UNIONIST organisations. They are not simply racists and far right fascists.

      Blaming lockdown for frustrations is typical mainstream Unionist diversionary tactics rather than tackle the unacceptable face of those opposed to self government.

      None of the broadcasters chose to screen Rule Britannia singing which was part of the footage used by both Stv and bbc.

      Same as they manage to omit sectarian singing at old firm games…from both sides. Hiding the ugly truth doesn’t help tackling this cancer.

    95. Clapper57 says:

      Republicofscotland @ 4:43 pm

      “STV isn’t owned by ITV – it operates the licences in Scotland for STV Central and STV North.”

      You are correct RepScotland….ITV is only the Network….me bad promoting FAKE news…..I must be morphing into a Unionist… 😉

    96. Doug says:

      The SNP/SG might as well proclaim what we all know. The “traditional” media in Scotland is blatantly anti-Scottish. The MSM isn’t going to change.

      If the SNP/SG was to do this it would gain much credit and support.

    97. Famous15 says:

      “Football hooliganism ,green or blue will not be tolerated”

      Aye right. You get deafened at Celtic Park with the cellick supporters singing Rule
      Britannia !

    98. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Clapper57 at 6:59 pm.

      Republicofscotland @ 4:43 pm was actually quoting me from earlier this afternoon.

    99. Capella says:

      Ian Grey is also famous for asking Nicola Sturgeon where the money for an oil fund was coming from. Gales of laughter all round. Baffled stare from Grey.

    100. Mist001 says:

      The world has racism. Scotland has sectarianism.

      Two cheeks of the same arse, fucking stamp it out once and for all.

    101. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Lochside: thanks for that refreshingly frank post and @Republicofscotland:

      I was a member of a Burns Club until quite recently (Yoon overload problem causing frank exchange of views: I was told Burns would have voted No) and knew two highly-promoted polis who complained even to me about more and more political appointments from Ablaw The Dyke. It’s all about getting the chess pieces in place to snuil us when matters move to the streets, imo.

      Try cutting an O/O march and see what sympathy you get from the forces of law and order. Individual polis will be ordered to behave in a certain way, despite their own views. I remember, on the shameful night of Jim Murphy’s appearance at the BLiS______d Gala Dinner in Glasgow, talking to a voluble fellow protester, who happened to be the mother of a policeman (!), who told me many young officers were often very sympathetic to us but simply had to do as they were told, within the law.

      That night the police defused Murphy’s goading of us with his bags of (alleged) food bank donations by telling him to shut up and get inside because he was threatening public order.

    102. Clapper57 says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon @ 7.05pm

      Nae worries …I responded to you in Off Topic.


    103. bipod says:

      I thought nicola sturgeon was absolutely shocking today. She gave no hope of ending the economic armageddon that she has unleashed (why the 29th of June? why not now what difference will 1 week make). Instead she fiddled with the farcical social distancing and social “bubble” rules that nobody actually pays any attention to anyway. I think nicola sturgeon and her media hungry doomsday health advisors need a reality check. If they actually went outside they would see that nobody obeys the two metre distance rule, other than when they are queuing outside of tescos, plenty of small independent businesses have already reopened (at least here in Glasgow) in spite of nicola sturgeons rules and there has been no second wave.

      In Germany and across Europe, bars, restaurants and shops have been opened for weeks now and there has been no second wave, there is no evidence for the second wave myth. So why does nicola sturgeon continue to insist that Scotland is in grave peril and that we need to remain locked down indefinitely.

      It is also important to point out that the epidemic is over and it has been over for some time. We are now going through large parts of the week where there is 0 deaths from covid 19 and the “peak” is always in the single digits. Its tragic for those who have died, but its not worth ruining hundreds of thousands of lives over.

      And just a reminder of some of the important facts that nicola likes to leave out in her speeches about the “clearly very dangerous virus”. The only people who are vulnerable to this virus are those of a particular age with underlying health conditions, for overwhelming majority of young and working aged people this virus is no more dangerous than the flu. The virus was never going to spread through 100% of the population as there is a latent immunity out there. The “high” death rates in care homes are a result of her health policy of shifting old folks out of the hospitals and into care homes without testing and the re-purposing of the NHS, which made it difficult for those who were already ill to get treatment.

      Rather than taking the sensible approach of lifting lockdown and saying to those who are vulnerable to voluntarily self isolate to avoid catching the virus. She has instead decided to lift it at a painfully slow pace, but never truly lifting it as she wants social distancing indefinitely, extend the most generous and expensive unemployment scheme in the world, called furlough, past October! and ruin a whole years worth of education even though it is now being widely acknowledged by many countries that closing schools in first place was a mistake and unnecessary.

    104. robbo says:

      I think you’re awful every time you come on here. If you don’t like it go back south and stop sponging free stuff from Scotland. Let’s see if you’re tory pals down south will subbie you.

      Or you could move to Tulsa in Oklahoma ,i believe their having a get together for corona deniers this weekend. Hurry up though they only have room for around 20,000 sacrifices in the hall.


    105. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 7.12pm

      Very interesting comment that Tinto….love it when people SHARE stories because they share it as one who has witnessed it and then can share it with others…..


    106. crazycat says:

      @ RepublicofScotland at 6.39

      Gray was also slapped down by his peers for describing a lady in a salacious way, during a presentation in the Glasgow city council building in George Sq.

      I think that was Frank McAveety.

    107. Republicofscotland says:

      Thank you Crazy cat for the correction.

    108. bipod says:

      Sorry robbo I’m from Scotland and I’m also one of the unfortunate ones that still has to work and doesn’t get that magic furlough money.

      Why does Scotland need the strictest covid measures in Europe when only 2 people have died today?

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      Police Scotland oath:

      “I, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality,and that I will uphold fundamental human rights and accord equal respect to all people, according to law”.

      MSPs: “The oath states: “I (Member’s Name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, Her Heirs and Successors, according to Law. So help me God.”

      The affirmation states: “I (Member’s Name), do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, Her Heirs and Successors, according to Law.”

    110. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Clapper57: that was the night I first met Ronnie A and C*ctus (Rev’s filter). Ian B was there too but I missed him and I had to go home early ‘cos I was sitting my Highers that year 🙂

      @crazycat: quite right. McAveety made inappropriate comments about a girl, not a woman, at a Holyrood committee or similar but I’ve been unable to trace them on YouTube. He also famously missed an inmportant SP vote while he nicked out for some chish and fips, as you do.

      The charmless nerd also unwisely told Ronnie A to go forth and multiply at a SiU Burns Supper when the bold Ian B advised Alistair Carmichael, who was mounting the stairs at The Social in Glasgow, that he could see up his kilt.

      Not a pretty sight, I can confirm 😉 .

      Ah, the memories….

    111. Joe says:


      Well said

      No criticisms of BLM and Antifa science deniers?

    112. defo says:

      Cheers coco.
      Nowt about protecting the realm then.

    113. Doug says:

      Time for Alex Salmond to go public about his court case.

    114. Sensibledave says:

      I am with Darwin on the protests of both the extreme right and left.

      As CV19 removes the numpties from either end of the scale as they protest, the human race continues its evolution based upon the simple minded being Increasingly eradicated from the gene pool!

    115. Julia Gibb says:

      The Orange Order and Glasgow Rangers fans ( not all but a large section) are the hard core Unionist champions.

      This is who the LibDems and Scottish Labour align with to protect the Union. This is Murdo’s 11 in action. Scottish Labour, The Tories, the LibDems and the extreme bigots that is the Union Vanguard.

      A modern inclusive Scotland or continue as a branch of English Nationalism.

    116. robbo says:

      Joe@ 8.02

      I’m not interested in your right wing agenda mince.Go elsewhere and bait them, sure you can engage with some who are interested ,

      I’m pretty straight doon the middle. I think everyone who I don’t like is a cunt, nowt personal

    117. Joe says:


      So you have nothing to say about rioting thugs destroying ordinary peoples businesses and property but a legit political rally (over 800,000 tried to get tickets) is for covid deniers? Yet im the cunt?

    118. Joe says:

      A bit of serious advice guys:

      If you are in Scotland and have more to complain about in US politics than the current SNP and their plans then really you are a contemptable idiot of the very highest calibre.

    119. John Jones says:

      watched a bit of Nicola today, where she mentioned that she didn’t have a crystal ball or a magic wand,
      I’m sure she could have borrowed either from some of her cohorts.

    120. robbo says:

      Bipod @ 7.53.


      You thank your lucky stars ruth that Carcrash Carlaw, Leonard or Rennie is not in charge or we’d really be in trouble..

    121. liz says:

      @bipod this shows her complete inability to react to the changes in circumstances as they are at the time.

      The 4 stage plan was made and she will not deviate from it, even though most of it is meaningless.
      You’re allowed to travel more than 5 miles to visit relatives but not more than 5 miles for recreation.

      Outdoor markets can open but not beer gardens???
      She’s a total control freak.

      The deaths have come very largely from care Homes, even some experts are now saying, isolation and lockdown may have contributed to the deaths.

      It’s a pity the opposition is so completely useless because they do have sensible concerns but cannot express them properly plus also NS has 84% from polls think she’s doing a great job.

    122. Colin Alexander says:

      Some good news:

      “Landowners will be prevented from mass shooting of mountain hares and salmon farmers face controls on sonic seal scarers after the Scottish Government bowed to pressure at Holyrood”.

    123. robbo says:

      liz @ 8.39

      Give it a rest.You’ve been posting your anti NS shit on here for while. IF 84% say they agree with her doesn’t that tell you you’ve backed the wrong gee gee.
      Away protect some slavers somewhere.

    124. jfngw says:

      Oh dear Joe can’t even spell contemptible, but he certainly understands idiot, he looks at one everyday in the mirror.

    125. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is a great read, almost five years after appearing on WOS as a ‘guest’ Soapbox post.

    126. robbo says:

      Regarding these so called British patriots of the Orange order, the sectarian and supremacists rioting in George square, please forgive them lord because the know not what they do.

      At the next lodge meeting can their grand master tell them that King Billio was an ally of the POPE at the time of there great victory and that James had both catholics and other faiths including proddie’s in his army.

      That usually will get them spitting bullets.

    127. bipod says:

      Majorities aren’t always right robbo. Nicola sturgeons approval ratings on the covid issue are largely a result of the media scaring people and a refusal from anyone in the media or the opposition to take her to task on the issues. Instead we get odd videos from stv of children thanking NS for keeping us safe.

      I think it was pointed out on this site over a month ago that NS had a higher approval rating on the handling of covid than boris johnson, despite taking virtually the same approach (until this month that is), and is guilty of making exactly the same mistakes, and the people polled couldn’t name a single difference between her and UK govs approach.

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      Your logic is all over the place. You’ve been telling us there was no need for lock-down, but now you insist the FM has made the same mistakes the PM. So despite appear to reject the need for securing public health, you appear to believe not enough has been done to protect public health. So which one is it?

    129. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 9.08pm

      That was interesting… anecdote that seems to reflect the times we are currently living in though it was written in 2015.

      Have a nice evening

    130. Kenny says:

      One thing puzzles me. While the SNP itself is achingly woke and prepared to bring in things which have never been done before in human history, like allowing men to just identify as women in the face of hard evidence of terrible things occurring in prisons… at the same time, they are authoritarian (some of their suggestions like trials without juries put Scotland into totalitarian, not even authoritarian territory).

      This combination of woke + incarceration + putting people in positions where they experience fear is almost like a simile for Scotland under this neverending lockdown! Where I live in Johnstone, since March, schoolkids have been playing games like spitting at each other, sneezing on each other, the way kids do, going round in groups… how come they have not even contracted CV (let alone not died)?!?

      Incidentally, unionists are saying that “Scottish independence = CHAZ” and spreading the tweets by the Scottish Greens (even more woke than the SNP, they are off the scale), who were actively pushing before the weekend trouble in George Square to topple the Peel statue and throw it into the Clyde.

      I think I am quite moderate. I remember little from history at school, but one was a political cartoon of a statue of Robert Peel with the inscription “cheap bread” from an appreciative working class (because he got rid of the Corn Laws). But that is what I think when I hear Peel mentioned.

      I was shown what the Scottish Youth Greens were tweeting about Peel and they are even crazier than the SNP-Jugend! I think the Greens are a liability and I almost wish they would campaign AGAINST indy for all the damage they are doing. God help us when the debates come around on indyref2 and questions on “woke” subjects are asked on the BBC and STV with the whole country watching (and, of course, reported next day in the press).

    131. Baxter1967 says:

      Sturgeon can do as she pleases because there is no opposition. Labour and Tories in Scotland are leaderless, impotent and brain dead. Internally there is zero opposition in the SNP. It is a fan club. Therefore she can be risk averse and delay any unlock as long as she feels inclined. She has never been interested in economics, more of a social worker which is very admirable, but you need the private sector to generate wealth to spend on the public sector which Scotland is so heavily dependent on and as tourism is one of the biggest generators of cash then that’s more unemployment , bankrupt businesses and destroyed livelihoods. Is it worth it ? I am inclined to think not but can understand the caution. As regards the bile on here about the Scottish police, most cops are apolitical , a bit cynical , from the university of life and more interested in keeping safe and earning money to look after their families. They are one of the the least tooled up and most restrained force in Europe. Maybe we should de fund them – there’s a lot of nice benevolent gangsters out there who could do the job instead and offer us protection and look after our businesses for a small percentage I’m sure.

    132. Dan says:

      What Phase is it man?
      I’ve spent the last two days getting smokey, high, and pretty well baked… But enough of my rebuilding a chimney in blazing sunshine exploits…
      I’ve come down (the ladder) now to find that hunners of folk have been out protesting and rampaging in ol’ weegie town.

      I’m pretty sure it was Phase 1 when I went up on the roof and that meant:

      Gatherings and occasions

      No public gatherings permitted except for meetings of two households, outdoors and with physical distancing.

      What part of that statement fits with hunners of folk having a ruck, including pushing and punching other folk?

    133. A Person says:


      Haven’t you noticed that this site is anti-NS? It’s about the only place in the world which seems to be capable of supporting independence without fawning over a politician who, regardless of any good intentions or managerial capabilities, has bugger all to show for six years of domination of Scottish politics- either in terms of gaining our independence or in terms of “the day job”.

      Honestly, name one thing she’s done? “Says warm sentiments in interviews with foreign press”, “admired by English Guardian columnists”, “obsessive focus on ludicrous, misogynistic and unpopular trans policy”, “less loathsome than Cameron/May/Johnson”. Our collie could do the last! As has been pointed out she hasn’t even done any better than Augustus Gloop in terms of handling coronavirus, she’s just better at bullshitting.

      Since 2014, the iniquity of British politics has surpassed the worst fears of any Yes supporter in 2014 yet we’re still at about level in the polls. The collie could have managed that too!

      I support Scottish independence and a government that tries to improve its citizens lives, and I’m happy to get behind politicians who’ll advance that- I don’t have to love them, they’re just a person. I’ve no intention of subjugating my views to “getting behind Nicola” because “Nicola” isn’t advancing anything I care about, so all that’s left is a personality cult.

    134. Beaker says:

      Dame Vera Lynn has passed away at the grand old age of 103.

      Reminds me of a story about a woman cooking her husband a meal. She tells him it is the Vera Lynn Special Surprise.

      He goes “Aw naw. Whale meat again?”

      I’m here all week…

    135. jfngw says:

      For those that doubt the effectiveness of going at a slower pace out of lockdown than England then this graph shows the difference more than the rantings of those like bipod. Scotland’s seven day rolling daily average deaths per million is now 1/5th of England’s.

      Our danger now is an out of control neighbouring country which seems to have decided around 100 deaths per day is the acceptable rate to open up everything.

    136. Baxter1967 says:

      Agree. Robbo. The SNP have taken out the economic from social and replaced it with the cultural. Woke/ identity politics / student union / pseudo academic . Very Corbynista . More Islington than Uddingston . The polar opposite of the Scottish working class values I and most of my generation were brought up on.
      Yet Sturgeon is popular there is no doubt about it. Seen as a safe pair of hands. Rather maternal in her reach. Keeps us safe and in the union.

    137. dakk says:

      jfngw said
      ‘Our danger now is an out of control neighbouring country which seems to have decided around 100 deaths per day is the acceptable rate to open up everything.’

      Sadly our danger has always been our neighbouring country.

    138. A Person says:


      Interesting. I have become uncomfortable about the lockdown continuing this long but I hadn’t realised the difference was that large.

    139. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’ll just type…

      In all my interactions with the Scottish police over the past 6 years or so, I have not had a negative experience, including all the march/rallies in which I have been involved.

      One particular incident sticks in my mind.

      It was a Hope Over Fear rally at George Square and was running well over time. The Wingers had retired to The Clutha but me and Pete hung on, underneath Walter Scott, because we wanted to see Gerry Cinnamon, who was on last.

      Towards the end, a couple of britnat neds entered the square from the south, chanting their slogans. Three pairs of police walked towards them, forcing them back to the street, where they turned and ran.

      Unfortunately, one of them ran straight in front of a bus, which stopped before it hit him. Pity.

      So, a wee pic from Plantation Quay, 2014.

    140. call me dave says:

      Oh Yes!

      Opinium: Asked me to fill in a poll on the UK Gov handling of
      Corona Virus with other stuff on the previous two UK general elections and the EU Ref.

      People mentioned: 3 Named UK scientists advising the Gov.
      Six Party leaders of the UK
      The Tory cabinet (4 named people)
      and WHO.

      Foreign UK aid stuff
      Do black lives matter & taking the knee. 🙂

      and someone called Ricky Leopard? Haven’t a clue either. 😉

    141. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper57 –

      Thank you very kindly, and the same back to your good self.


    142. Dan says:

      @Colin Alexander at 8:49 pm

      Cheers for the link to the Ferret Article.
      As I suspected, most of the beavers culled are indeed in an unofficial release area.
      It is unfortunate but also an inevitable consequence due to the impact the beavers have on the land.
      Official release areas will be chosen carefully.

    143. call me dave says:



      My father suffered her, preferred Anne Shelton.

      However she was of her time & did her bit no quibbles from me.

    144. Alec Lomax says:

      I was wondering what had become of the ‘S’DL ! They of the saltires which had swastikas sewn onto them. Perhaps they inspired Count Dankula to teach his dug to raise his paws to sieg heil?

    145. Mike d says:

      Scotland, a nasty bigoted catholic hating country when I left it 40yrs ago. Nothings changed I see. Police and judiciary, unionist scum.

    146. jfngw says:


      Well quite, but I was trying to limit it to just one subject.

    147. Alec Lomax says:

      Baxter 1967 – Scottish working class values: reading and believing the Daily Record?

    148. Alec Lomax says:

      Joe – How’s Boris and Matt getting on?

    149. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Does anyone know what happened to Heedtracker?

      Was s/he hoofed or what?

      Just wondering – must’ve been one of the most prolific WOS commenters.

    150. bipod says:


      I do think the lockdown was an unnecessary overreaction, that didn’t actually protect the public health at all. I also can’t see why we are still locked down when the epidemic is over, and there is no scientific evidence to corroborate the second wave myth. Ifs and maybes are not good enough.

      I was making a point about why was nicola sturgeons approval rating was so much higher than boris johnsons on this issue when she has been doing almost exactly the same thing up until this month. The only difference I can see is that nicola has a fawning media.

    151. robbo says:

      A person @ 10.19

      Oh is that right? So does that mean I should immediately go to jail,do not pass go and I don’t collect £200 quid?

      Why don’t you fuck off and don’t pester me again me again.

    152. Tackety Beets says:

      Ref comments on Iain Gray.

      He was as a Sec School Classmate, perhaps not the most popular.

      He is famous for “sandwich gate” etc as above.
      I also recall a wee rammy in Holyrood when IG declared he/Lab could not support the “budget” as 25k apprentice places was inadequate & Scot Gvt, lead by AS, should invest more in apprentice places.
      AS was classic & pointed out Labour manifesto was for up to 10k apprentice places………….
      For me it was a real burst out loud moment in Holyrood.

    153. Baxter1967 says:

      Alex – Decency , hard work , trade unionism, looking after people, bringing up you children , respecting the law , rejecting debt and conspicuous consumption , could go on all night.

      Labour rejected it all for the cultural woke, result has been disastrous.

      Corbyn At Labour conference : “My name is Jeremy and my pronouns are He and Him”. If he had have said that nonsense at the miners club I used to drink in he would have been shown the door.

    154. James Barr Gardner says:


      Does anyone remember the riot the last massive riot in Glasgow ? The Papers feasted on it for at least a week…

      It consisted of exactly 4 protesters and 2 of them were in a rickshaw !

      So therefore the BBC and the so called Scottish Newspapers THIS WEEK have reached an NEW LOW, they have no SHAME !

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Meself (10.55) –

      I was asking if anyone knows what happened to ‘H***tracker’.

      My comment went into moderation so I’m guessing s/he was bagged for some offence or other. Anyone know if s/he is still commenting elsewhere?

      (No sinister reasons for asking – just curious after reading a few of H’s comments on the old WOS post I linked earlier.)

    156. defo says:

      He got married to a swarthy eastern European Ian?

    157. robertknight says:

      From the BritNat Brainwashing Channel’s online “news”…

      “Scottish Police Federation chairman David Hamilton said events over the weekends of 6 and 13 June – which saw Black Lives Matter protests and a gathering of people purporting to protect statues in Glasgow’s George Square – along with Wednesday night’s disorder – have “laid in tatters any suggestion that non-compliance with the coronavirus restrictions is a serious issue”.

      He added: “When our politicians fail to condemn the actions of those who defy the law, we cannot be surprised that it is increasingly difficult for police officers to enforce the law.

      “The public cannot expect the police service to turn a blind eye to those who break the law in the name of a particular cause whilst demanding different treatment for opponents.

      “There is no moral high ground to be claimed. Right or left; green or blue; unionist or nationalist; statue wrecker or statue protector, your side is as guilty as the other”.

      Forgive me, but am I missing something? I wasn’t aware of ANY “nationalist” demos during the period covered by coronavirus restrictions. Anyone care to enlighten me, or is this guy talking out his backside?

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      There’s just no arguing with stupid. 🙁

    159. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian B 11.15: he was in love with the East European jam doughnut lady at a supermarket but unfortunately he has disappeared under his original name.

      He had some smokin’ verbal tics (“Orange Hitler” and various insults directed at the BBC “gimps”) and is much missed. I don’t think anyone posted more here until CBB filled his boots.

      I won’t say with what 🙂

      Only jokin, Cams 😉 .

    160. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I’m fairly certain it wasn’t anything hugely contentious that Heedy left the building for. Maybe just for being too feisty in rebuking troll pish.
      That said tere is the possibility they OD’d on donuts due to over frequent consumption as a result of the eye candy saleswoman. 😉

      Another gone name I noticed btl on Barrheadboy’s article re. ISP was also quite feisty here, but this post seems to elude to an awakening to the reality that not everything the SNP shits is gold…

      And how appropriate would a certain old poster’s standard Scottish Judiciary and Lawyers comment be in relation to the Salmond / Murray / Hirst situations, and Rev’s efforts in getting answers re. Contempt of Court question.
      Clue to their name paper scissors “other word for stone“…

      Thinking about that, it’s probably about time Stu received the next installment of as Mike Read would shout – Runaround Now!

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      I recently pointed folk to what proper woke looks like, i.e. support for a culture of ethnic tolerance and inclusion of the other, so I’ll not try to correct it’s misuse as a pejorative. However, I do need to defend the inclusion of a cultural approach to government. The alternative is a legal culture and psychology that is insensitive to bio-neurology and semiotics. So you’re on to plumbs in terms of being able to respect natural rights (see British constitutionalism).

    162. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      I’ve been inviting the readers to fill their boot, mine are already pretty full. 🙂

    163. jfngw says:

      @ian b

      I haven’t seen him posting on any of the usual sites, so unless he has changed his handle he seems to have disappeared. He was getting very angry about something just before he vanished if I recall correctly.

      His abiesalba (something like that anyway), who frequented the Guardian site just before the referendum. I’m sure h*tracker used to post there at the time also (long time ago so my memory could be wrong on that). Anyone that doesn’t remember this Guardian poster, s/he used to post streams of cut and paste documents from EU regs, it was endlessly tedious, many thought it was Tompkins.

    164. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ CBB: peace, brother 😉 .

      Cuban heels, me.

    165. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      I once had a pair of platform creepers, with a bristly upper, that resembled hedgehogs. Not practical in the slightest but fun at parties. 🙂

    166. Tinto Chiel says:

      @CBB: did they tickle someone’s fancy? 🙂

      Apologies, I have thrashed myself with birch twigs.


    167. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think you might need a bit more self-chastisement mate. Night, night. 🙂

    168. Capella says:

      Heedy annoyed Stu by referring to Adam Tomkins East European girlfriend and also insisting that Kezia ran a blog under the nom de plume Fifi la somethingorother.

      Perhaps that’s why he sank below the otherwise calm and unruffled surface of this blog. A warning to us all.

    169. Mist001 says:

      I can prove unequivocally that Mrs. Murrell has lied to Scotland.

      In her daily briefing today regarding phase two of the ‘route map’, she said that pubs and beer gardens won’t open just now because “bars and pubs have been flagged as “hotspots for transmission of the virus” according to recent scientific evidence.”

      How so?

      There is NO evidence, scientific or otherwise, for this whatsoever because simply put, the bars and pubs have been shut, so how could they have possibly gathered ‘recent scientific evidence that they are ‘hotspots for transmission of the virus’?

      Impossible. It’s made up. There is NO evidence.

      She LIED and YOU are being LIED to.

    170. JaMuR says:

      Time for a new profile picture mist.
      That ones not moody enough.

      Gie us a smile

    171. Corrado Mella says:

      One day, all quiet people that only aspire to what’s normal, Independence, will snap.

      And The Purge will begin.
      It will be swift and thorough.

      Something to behold.
      Be ready.

    172. Ayeright says:


      Time and time again you confirm that you are an idiot.

      Officials began relaxing some social distancing restrictions in early May as new case numbers dwindled to just a few a day. But dozens of new cases have been confirmed in the last week, nearly all of them linked to nightclubs in the Itaewon district of Seoul.

      Authorities have been on high alert since a 29-year-old man who visited several bars and nightclubs in early May tested positive. He is believed to be at least one of the individuals behind the new cluster.

      More than 100 people have tested positive and some 5,500 may have visited bars and nightclubs in the area around the same time as infected individuals.

    173. Davie Oga says:

      Aye Mist.

      Shameless, brazen liar even for a politician. What I don’t understand is why she is never held to account. It’s obvious from the testimony at the Salmond trial that she lied to parliament. Obvious that her chief of staff, who has her full confidence, lied in court. Yet she trundles on. She’ll never go for a referendum or do anything else that seriously opens the door to independence. She’ll be be ripped to shreds by her unionist protectors if she does. I just tune out when she speaks now.

    174. Ayeright says:

      South Korean officials are scrambling to contain a new outbreak of coronavirus after a cluster of more than 100 cases was linked one man who visited several nightclubs in Seoul.

      Bars and discos across South Korea’s capital have now been closed, after the sudden outbreak raised fears of a second wave of COVID-19 in a city that has been seen as a model for how to contain the disease.

    175. Ayeright says:

      @Davie Oga

      Read my lips “honestly I support Independence” hahahaha.

    176. Davie Oga says:

      Aye Right

      Maybe I’m being a bit hash. Iain MacWhirter wrote that when she became FM, she held a meeting with the press where she assured them that she wouldn’t make any moves towards independence. So she is capable of being honest.

    177. Ayeright says:

      @Davie Oga

      Maybe you’re smoking too much hash, your head is in the clouds.

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      This might interest some, as it points to the purpose of law, i.e. the prevention of harm to the social order and individuals.

      Defamation in Scots law
      A consultation

    179. Willie says:

      As a youngster I remember the huge 12 July Orange parades disrupting Glasgow.

      The stench of cheap deodorant, from folk fortified with early morning alcohol, strutting their stuff to a band battering out anti catholic tunes was an unedifying sight. A more intolerant vile cretinous band of scum one could not wish for.

      Today the numbers may be a pale shadow of the Orange Order’s yesteryear but there are still a few of these morons left. That in 2014 the Labour Party supplied thee people with ‘ no ‘ posters and other campaigning shows just how deeply divisive unionism is.

      For me, the 2014 realisation that a West of Scotland Labour Party consisting predominately of rump members bearing the nomenclature of what would have been a Catholic Irish heritage was absolutely astounding, and reflects why today the Labour Party are the micro minority fringe party that they are.

      But the seeds of thuggish intolerant unionism run deep. That the police and the media do not condemn them tells you that. They are a tool of Union, a tool to provoke conflict, to provoke dissent.

      The old song about being up to their knees in blood is as relevant today’s latter day Brittanic yobs as it was years ago. Not however that the Police or the MSM would say.

      Hate. it’s the politics of unionism and always will be. But if anyone has difficulty recognising where it comes from look at today’s Brexit – and the extant English nationalism that fuelled it.

    180. robbo says:

      Mist001 says:
      19 June, 2020 at 1:22 am
      I can prove unequivocally


      Oh my giddy aunt.

    181. Effijy says:

      I have a friend who is an HR manager in a large company.

      He advised that he has to dismiss an accomplished long term
      Worker for sending on a joke about these riots.

      A director spotted it and he wants the person out.

      For me it’s obviously a joke, doesn’t name anyone or any group
      and it wasn’t sent to friends with no intention of offending.

      Does this person lose the job. her confidence and possibly their home
      And yet we have a UK Prime Minister who has clearly stated he would
      Eliminate Scots, Blacks have smiles like watermelons, and Muslim women
      Look like letter boxes and he is safe as houses in No 10 and Checkers?

      Sheer insanity of Westminster saying we are all in it together!

    182. Oneliner says:


      What I heard NS say was that evidence exists that Covid19 can be more easily transferred when there is increased/raised vocal activity. This could ordinarily take place in pubs where you might have to shout to be heard above loud music or in singing concerts.

      Rightly or wrongly, that is why pubs are closed and you can only sing in the bath.

      @Mike d

      I am no apologist for brain-dead fitbaheids, King William III, King Henry VIII or Pope Innocent III.

      Despite the best(?) efforts of the kid-on Scottish press, there’s a lot more to Scotland than the Rangers and Celtic heartlands. I hope you have expanded your experience of religious freedom, geography and social values in your new home. Some of us remain here to fight(campaign) for same.

    183. Effijy says:

      Sky News suggesting UK debt now at £1.95 Trillion?

      The National Debt clock is showing the figure at £2.36 Trillion?

      I could never believe Sky but well done for hiding £400 Billion.
      Maybe Reece Mogg has space in his tax free vault in the Cayman Islands?

    184. Effijy says:

      The clash at George Square Glasgow.

      I was of the impression that like the AUOB marches, the
      Organisers of the demonstrators protesting against unjust
      Measures against refugees.

      The Racist/Loyalist thugs don’t appear to have applied for permission
      To hold a protest?
      Why do they get dispensation that is not available to any of us?

      Their Cummings type claim of going there to protect the Cenotaph.
      Is that function not one that the police are responsible for?

      Are the police happy have these thugs break the law and announce they
      Are taking over their duties.

      Police Scotland- you are corrupt!

    185. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      So if Manny Singh of AUOB can be hauled before the courts for not complying with the timings of a legally authorised event.

      Why not the organiser of the BritNat Thugs in George Square? (or is that because MI5 Officers have immunity from prosecution for crimes they commit in the UK in defence of the realm)?

      Something well and truly stinks (to paraphrase Gordon Jackson QC).

    186. Gary45% says:

      I remember the marches in the 70s and 80s living in the central belt.
      Personally witnessed the inbred scum attitude from them and the ignorance of the plod, looks like nothing has changed.
      Over the years some have posted about the increase of the “diddy men” moving into areas in the south west of Scotland, this should be a major cause for concern for the rest of Scotland.
      As we can see the media ignore it, the authorities seem to be ignoring it, is this the start of a new form of “Sectarian Northern Ireland” starting? I am sure Westminster would like nothing more than one of the “Colonies” at war, it gives them total control.
      I have no idea if the Scottish Government have commented on the trouble, if not? its high time they got a grip of the situation.
      “Protecting statues” seems to be the new cry of the inbred, knuckle dragging neanderthal, anyone with half a brain knows the only reason they protect them is, they use them for pissing on.
      Ignorance is dangerous, if untreated.

    187. rob gray says:

      police statement sound’s like an attack on the Scottish gov . noticed all the Tories with the basic same tweets expect a political attack against the scot.Gov very soon

    188. The OO being used as a political tool in Canada,

      `“Ascendancy,” or control of this legal and political machinery, gave the Orange Order a monopoly on the use of “legitimate” violence.

      Between 1839 and 1866, the Orange Order was involved in 29 riots in Toronto, of which 16 had direct political inspiration.`

      The Grand Orange Lodge of British America was established in Toronto in 1830, and it expanded steadily so that there were over 20 lodges in 1860, 31 in 1880, and 56 by 1895. At the turn of the century Toronto was nicknamed “The Belfast of Canada”.

      At its height in 1942, 16 of the 23 members of city council were members of the Orange Order.

      Every mayor of Toronto in the first half of the twentieth century was an Orangeman.`

    189. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 18th June 9.08pm – just got round to reading the archive article “Soapbox: On a Boat” you linked to. What a pleasure to read. The comments are excellent. Thx.

    190. Capella says:

      @ rob gray – I don’t read that police statement as an attack on the Scottish Government. Nicola Sturgeon made an unequivocal statement in Holyrood condemning the behaviour. She and Humza Yousaf also tweeted their anger at the scenes.

      Jackson Carlaw, however, made snide remarks about NS tweeting and it’s been noted by others that the Tories have kept quiet about it.

      It seems more likely that it’s Tory and Labour politicians who are being criticised.

    191. Vinny says:

      I feel very strongly about bias Policing.

      Too many of our Police are also season ticket holders at Ibrox, therefore take a less serious view of Unionist thugs rampaging through our streets.

      It’s more of a gentle warning that is given Rather than any arrests

    192. Bob Mack says:


      I think the police federation are criticising the Govsrnment.

      It is asking the government who are in control to make their mind up on whether demos or the public health is the priority.

      Only the SNP can let the police do that job. Not Czrlaw or Leonard.

      A nuanced broadside if you like .

    193. Effijy says:

      Thanks for the Police letter Rob Gray.

      I liked the general tone of the letter but a couple of points to raise from it.

      Their officers know the law and that is the thugs do not have the necessary
      Permits to assemble so disperse or be arrested.
      If they refuse social distancing, separate or be arrested.
      If they are shouting offensive or sectarian chants creating public disorder,
      They should be arrested.

      Do they really think a politician should be present with them?

      The letter mentions the law should apply to Unionist or Nationalist.
      Why include Nationalists as there has only been illegal gathering by
      Unionist, Loyalists, Racists?

      I must presume that Senior Officers at the Square instructed his officers
      Not to apply the law unless all the other offences included violence.

      Now is the time for politicians to ask the Seniors why they chose to ignore our Laws?

    194. Capella says:

      @ Bob Mack – OK but but I’m sure I heard NS say quite clearly in Holyrood at FMQs that she condemned the behaviour and expected those responsible to be subject to the full force of the law. That sounded pretty unequivocal to me. No?

    195. PacMan says:

      rob gray says: 19 June, 2020 at 9:21 am

      police statement sound’s like an attack on the Scottish gov . noticed all the Tories with the basic same tweets expect a political attack against the scot.Gov very soon

      Just because the Tories will use this statement will be used by the Tories to attack the Scottish government, doesn’t mean that is the reason why Police Scotland issued this statement.

      Of course a minority has broke the lockdown but the vast majority, including myself hasn’t. These is exceptional circumstances where there are major health and economic issues that is having a profound effect on our society. Why should the majority of us observe the lockdown where idiots are allowed to riot, injure innocent bystanders and police officers as well as potentially continue this health crisis which will cause further health and economic damage on our society?

      I understand the contentious use of language in the letter considering that hasn’t been any indy marches during the lock down but in today’s environment, everybody has to ensure that they are not unfairly targeting specific groups. At least they are acknowledging that the events over the last week was caused by British nationalists/unionists.

      Lastly, I don’t want to involved in the BLM argument as I just don’t have an opinion on it. However, they are as bad as these British nationalist rioters who are also defying the lock down that the majority of us are adhering to and their actions are as well could potentially prolong the lock down.

      Of course, BLM has a legitimate right to air it’s views and I agree with a lot of what they say but defying the lock down isn’t the answer.

    196. Robert graham says:

      First and only comment about the disturbance in George Sq.

      A few people have commented on why were tho Right Wing or even Loyalists who knows what They they are. were allowed to hold a protest during a ban on mass gatherings ,

      The same goes for the protest in support of what most people would disagree agree with i.e. The enforced eviction and lock change by SERCO of these refugees,

      This was like throwing the christians to the lions a easy target these people were definitely bait

      We’re led to believe the Cops were taken by surprise , this after other demos by the same nutters in previous weeks , where exactly did they think they went to ? . Oh yeah sleeping probably eh .

      I bet MI5 weren’t taken by surprise and probably had prior knowledge , two things come to mind both probably will be described as Tin foil hat land mad thinking ,

      Anyway one it was a practice run and a training exercise by Police Scotland preparing for demonstrations against AUOB marches , or even more sinister it was a warning to Nicola Sturgeon and the independence movement.

      Harold Wilson was given a similar warning when Tanks and Armoured cars appeared around Heathrow , this was shortly before he unexpectedly resigned , yeah Tin Foil Hat Territory probably.

    197. A Person says:

      -Robert Graham-

      I thought maybe that vandalising the Cenotaph was the security services trying to cause a culture war so we ignore impending no-deal Brexit. Then I thought nah, there really are enough numpties to do that.

      Similarly there simply are enough fascist loons in Scotland to have their own protest.

      I was driving through Glasgow the other day behind a car blaring out The Sash, then stopped at lights and saw into an Industrial unit bedecked in Union Jacks with a poster of Betty Windsor up. This was in Drumchapel one of the poorest areas of the city.

      I wonder if these attitudes are generally confined to older folk?

    198. Capella says:

      Clip form First Minister’s Statement yesterday, June 18th, condemning the violent scenes in George Square and expecting the full force of the law to be applied:

    199. A Person says:

      Also, yes, the protest was not “pull down the statues” it was “don’t send asylum seekers to starve”. They increased these poor bastards’ maintenance allowances by 20p a week and the minister stood up in the House of Commons to say it was “inflation-busting”. Have they never heard the words, “there but for the grace of God go I”?

    200. Bob Mack says:


      Perhaps Nicola was unequivocal in her Holyrood statement, but certainly she has been daily talking about relying on people’s common sense to do the right thing, and inferring she might have to use the law.

      It is a contradictory position in many ways.

    201. mike cassidy says:

      What could possibly go wrong?

      UK government preparing ‘shock and awe’ Brexit media campaign

    202. liz says:

      To the person who said I’m anti NS, you’re correct.

      I was a great admirer, met her several times, contributed to various crowd funds, campaigned in all weathers for her.

      The reason I mention it so much, is because she is not what she appears and I suppose it annoys me that she gets away with so much BS.

      Someone said she’s more like a social worker and I agree with that.

      The beer garden thing is her anti alcohol stance.
      And I’m sorry but she is actually telling people who they can have to sleep over.
      Don’t allow folk visiting to use your toilet!
      Are the Scottish people so in desperate need of a nanny?

      I’ve always been great believer in being independent as individuals as well as country.

      My main objection is, she will never get us independence and I wish people would see through her.

    203. PacMan says:

      Robert graham @ 19 June, 2020 at 10:14 am

      Given the circumstances, it would be naive to totally discount the idea that this orchestrated by security services.

      However, anybody with any experience of engaging with this types of individuals through indy, knows that they aren’t the sharpest tools in the box, not by a long mile. Sheer stupidity can’t be discounted as well.

    204. susan says:

      I’m inclined to believe you Liz. I don’t think independence is anywhere in her mind , least of all the forefront. Getting woke brownie points, “managing” a delvoved Scotland and angling for a high profile next job are her priorities. When I think back to the sickening adulation of the early days, god the scales have fallen from my eyes.

    205. PacMan says:

      Capella says: 19 June, 2020 at 9:56 am

      Jackson Carlaw, however, made snide remarks about NS tweeting and it’s been noted by others that the Tories have kept quiet about it.

      It seems more likely that it’s Tory and Labour politicians who are being criticised.

      If Sturgeon clamped down on recent protests and gatherings, she would have been roundly condemned by the opposition parties as they are the media chummies who have clearly ‘weaponised’ the health crisis. This is also be seen by the usual suspects on here as well.

      On this sensitive subject, there needs to be political consensus and as you mentioned, it does seem likely that the Police letter is aimed at the opposition parties.

    206. Athanasius says:


      Anyone can put a definition in Wikipedia. It’s hardly an unimpeachable source. Fascism is only “understood” as a thing of the right because we’ve been repeatedly told by the left that it is. But it isn’t, not if you understand that the difference between left and right is the difference between collectivism and individuality. The further left, the more collective, and I can’t think of anything more collective than fascism. The Nazis even had a word for it – Gleichschaltung.

      Consider the standard chart of political positions running from left to right. It goes Communist, socialist, liberal, conservative, libertarian and then, suddenly, after the position (libertarian) which holds to absolute minimal government, we don’t go to anarchism, we go to fascism. Why? How has this come about? It makes absolutely no sense, there is no logical progression here. The state is every bit as present in the minutiae of the individual’s life in fascism as it is in communism, yet for some incomprehensible reason it is “widely understood” as being of the right.

      The only way this circle can be squared is to understand fascism as a variant of communism in the same way that Leninism, Stalinism or Trotskyism is. And this becomes more apparent when we remember that the original political godfather of fascism, Mussolini, was actually a Communist. We think of him as a buffoonish figure today, but in his day he was regarded as one of the foremost communist theoreticians of his day. He evolved fascism as an intermediary position on the road to full communism. He was a leftist and there is no argument about this.

    207. A Person says:


      I think that was me. To be honest I was a bit appalled by the tone of the response you got.

      Your characterisation of Sturgeon as a social worker is a good one. I always find that those who want to control others’ vices have some nasty vices of their own- I had a relative who disapproved of everything anybody so much as going out for a coffee, he turned out to be violent to his family…

      I do accept we must all sacrifice to protect others st the moment, however that is a necessary evil, not a positive good as some seem to think. And it’s not all one way, the lockdown is ruining lives and killing people too.

      As you say Sturgeon gets away with being fairly incompetent and doing nothing for independence. I don’t know why this is. I reckon that many Indy supporters invested a lot of emotional energy in her as a way of dealing with our defeat in 2014 and find it hard to “break up with her”. For myself I have low expectations of politicians- they’re just people, doing a job where it’s impossible to please everyone- so I never believed the hype and therefore her failure to advance our cause, while disappointing and surprising, is quite easy to come to terms with on an emotional level! She’s not my wife!

    208. bipod says:

      Interesting that the producer of that graph jfngw, choose only to compare with England and not any other country that has been lifting lockdown measures faster. If they did the results might not be quite as supportive of nicolas “cautious” approach.

      It doesn’t prove that lockdowns work, that could be a reflection of the natural decline of the virus. It doesn’t explain why in countries that didn’t lockdown or didn’t have as strict a lockdown the epidemic was either only as bad, but in most cases much better than here. If you are a believer in lockdown and the ferguson model, then why aren’t millions of people across the thrid world, where it was never possible to lockdown, dead yet. Why didn’t the health services of countries that didn’t lockdown collapse. There is no correlation between locking down and successfully controlling the virus.

      As for talking too loudly spreads the virus is there any falsifiable evidence for that because that sounds like a conspiracy theory. I wonder if niocla sturgeon makes policy decisions based on any crackpot theory that crosses her desk

    209. John Jones says:

      Received my SNP raffle tickets this morning, I’m not an SNP member, though I have contributed in the past.
      First reaction was, why do they need more funds?
      There is no referendum on the horizon to pay for, no conference this year,probably, in fact the only expense is the normal day to day running.
      Needless to say they will be returned with a emphatic NO THANKS!

    210. A Person says:


      Maybe it proves that left and right are foolish labels? Fascism and communism are both ideologies which seek to control people’s lives, and they attract similar personality types. As you say what are the differences in real terms between Trotskyism and fascism, except the identity of the people telling you what to do? It’s interesting how many communists come from deeply religious backgrounds, and how many communists renounce it and become full blown fascists. Likewise libertarianism is also an ideology which requires a deranged level of faith in “liberty” in the most abstract sense- and many adherents of libertarianism are also ex-communists. I don’t trust ideologues.

    211. Joe says:

      @ Athanasius

      Great comment. This is entirely accurate.

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fascism is is a form of totalitarianism, which articulates the authoritarian opposition to the self-determination of others. Simples.

      Stealth Authoritarianism

    213. CameronB Brodie says:

      I see Joe has found someone he can support.

    214. Sensibledave says:

      @Athensius and @A Person

      We should remember the derivation of the term “n*z*”.

      Also from Wiki’ …. “National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/?n??tsi?z?m, ?næt-/), is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party—officially the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

    215. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @liz, A Person et al –

      Hear hear.

      Utterly sick of listening to her, day-in, day-out, the same shitery, and that gum-bumping bollock Jason Leitch can just GTF.

    216. Republicofscotland says:

      With regards to comments on Police Scotland and possibility that they attempted to blame peaceful protesters as well for the disturbance in Glasgow’s George Sq very recently.

      The (SPF) the Scottish Police Federation has come under fire from equality bodies, lawyers and politicians for claiming that both sides were intent on causing trouble which wasn’t true.

      Just why would Police Scotland try to lay blame on peaceful protestors, who were demonstrating in George Sq, over the shoddy way the city has treated some of its asylum seekers. When infact the unionist racist thugs that arrived in the square an hour before the peaceful protestors showed up were already shouting abuse at passersby, and chanting Rule Britannia?

      As some discussed, including myself yesterday, and we know Police Scotland is just a blunt instrument, but what are the officers affiliations, and who do they think they really serve? Are they serving Scottish interests or are they serving unionist interests.

    217. Capella says:

      @ Athnasius – I’m astonished to hear that Mussolini was a Communist. Those communists he murdered and imprisoned e.g. Gramsci, would have been amazed to hear he was a fellow traveller.

      Mind you, Joseph Stalin was a priest. Maybe all priests are communists.

      The definition of fascism is well established and has been since Mussolini claimed himself to be a fascist. He took the name from the Roman fasces, or bunch of sticks tied together in unity. Mussolini himself said that his movement would be better described as corporatism. That reflects the fact that corporations make the rules to suit corporations and their investors. The fascist state is always run to benefit the elite.

      See Umberto Eco’s ten point definition of Fascism. Eco knew what he was talking about. He grew up in fascist Italy.

    218. Dan says:


      It’s time for AGFRR! By Graeme McCormick

    219. CameronB Brodie says:

      This health crises has highlighted how four decades of neo-liberalism has gutted society’s capacity to respond to emergencies. This same economic vandalism has also damaged democracy. Moving further to the right will only heighten the authoritarianism we live under.

      Brexit signifies the end of the natural law tradition and the potential for democracy in the British isles.

      How populist authoritarian nationalism threatens constitutionalism or: Why constitutional resilience is a key issue of our time

    220. Republicofscotland says:

      Mike Russell could be awakening from his independence stupor, Russell whos Scotland’s Constitution secretary, has said the decision to halt the planning for a second independence referendum may need to be revisited due to the Brexit process.

      Forgive me if I’m not overwhelmed with excitement, we’ve been here before, and nothing actually happened. (May need to be revisited) just isn’t good enough in my book, Russell should be in the process of full scale planning to ditch this horrid union.

      I fear this is just more tired old rhetoric to draw in, independence supporters, with false hope.

    221. Republicofscotland says:

      So Foreign secretary Dominic Raab, has said he won’t be ” Taking the knee” the pose has become synonymous with the Black Lives Matter movement. Raab feels that it’s a sign of subjugation and subordination, sounds to me a though Raab feels as though he’s above all that, that he’s somehow better than everyone else.

      Of course someone should inform Raab, that the UK has taken the knee to the USA for decades and will continue to do so.

    222. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my 1.17pm comment, and independence, apparently the SNP government has written to Ireland and Norway congratulating them on being elected to the UN’s Security Council by other members, adding that Scotland looks forward to joining them on the world stage as an independent country.

      I think both Ireland and Norway have smaller populations than Scotland, yet they have more of an influence within the UN than Scotland does.

      So my last two comments clearly show that the SNP government realise the importance of independence for Scotland to grow in all fields, however, will that equate to them actually doing anything meaningful on the independence front.

    223. Vinny says:

      Sturgeon actually mentioned Scottish Independence in Holyrood yesterday

    224. Capella says:

      Hannah Arendt also makes the point in “Origins of Totalitarianism” that fascism always involves the manipulation of the masses by the elite. Hitler’s support came from German industrialists desperate to get rid of trades unionists and communists.

      BREXIT is a good example close to home where the masses in England were manipulated by stock brokers and hedge fund mangers to vote LEAVE and then to vote Tory. Just because there are a lot of people involved doesn’t mean it is socialist.

      The antidote to fascism is not individualism (which is just another right wing, Ayn Rand inspired free market spin). The antidote is democracy. But, as the vote LEAVE campaign has demonstrated, if the electorate are lied to and manipulated then there is no such thing as a free vote.

    225. Republicofscotland says:

      As the Prime Ministers military jet is to undergo a revamping of its livery essentially becoming a flying Union Jack. Senior Minister Penny Mordant, has called for the British government to spend its overseas aid budget on building a successor to the Royal Yacht Britannia. Mordant has even stated that two new yachts should be built.

      Of course money will be saved when they close down the Departments for International Development (DfID) in East Kilbride, with the loss of 600 jobs.

    226. callmedave says:

      Corona virus alert level reduced from 4 to 3.
      All the 4-Nations chief health specialists & scientists advise.

      Boris says “Watch this space”

      Aye! The 2-metre rule will be binned.

      Mind you the N. Ireland teachers are not to happy with their Gov bringing in a 1m rule for schoolchildren.

    227. Breeks says:

      susan says:
      19 June, 2020 at 11:59 am
      I’m inclined to believe you Liz. I don’t think independence is anywhere in her mind , least of all the forefront. Getting woke brownie points, “managing” a delvoved Scotland and angling for a high profile next job are her priorities. When I think back to the sickening adulation of the early days, god the scales have fallen from my eyes.

      The biggest frustration I have is that they whole political landscape of the UK, and the inevitability of Brexit, and the sliding uncertainty of Scottish Independence, changes dramatically and at a stroke, IF Scotland was to fashion a Constitutional Backstop out of Scotland’s popular Sovereignty.

      Just one letter from Bute House, delivering one ultimatum to Westminster, turns Brexit from a colonial imposition forced upon a subjugated Scotland, into an existential constitutional crisis for the UK, which would have to choose between ‘keeping’ Scotland in the Union by abandoning Brexit and Scotland’s subjugation, or, proceeding with Brexit, knowing that the unconstitutional nature of Brexit will constitute the end of the United Kingdom.

      That one letter, with it’s one ultimatum, could have been written on any one day from 24th June 2016 right up until today, and could yet be written on any day to come, up until the reality of Brexit is upon us.

      Now set aside scandals, corruptions, political agendas, mandates, poll ratings, improprieties, … set the whole shenanigans to one side a moment. Can anybody, ANYBODY, give me one good reason why such a letter should not be written immediately, delivered to 10 Downing St, and Scotland can then relax behind a constitutional backstop which stops Brexit and keeps us in Europe, or becomes a death warrant for the Union if Brexit is forced through against the sovereign wishes of the Scottish people.

      Just write the fkg letter Nicola Sturgeon, and the world changes in an instant, because Scotland is empowered and has just laid the winning hand upon the table.

      If Sturgeon won’t write the letter, then Scotland, we must depose Sturgeon and put someone in her place who will write the letter, and furnish Scotland with the Constitutional Backstop it should have had all along.

      Note also… such an ultimatum does not interfere with any plans for a referendum campaign or an election campaign. It changes nothing, yet changes everything. Scotland MUST deliver that ultimatum. There is NO reason we should not, and there is no advantage in any delay.

      Write to your MP and MSP demanding they defend the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland by presenting Westminster with this single ultimatum.

      I am sick and tired of SNP whiners who say “ah it’s easy to criticise Nicola, but what would you do?” There, I’ve just told you what I’d do. I’d force Westminster to choose between Brexit and seeing the Union killed by Scotland’s subjugation, or, abandoning Brexit through respect for Scotland’s Constitutional Backstop, which would see the Union killed off by recognising Scotland has a sovereign Veto and that Westminster’s convention of Parliamentary Sovereignty is shattered and undone.

    228. A Person says:


      Well said. That’s what I’d do, and I’d turn the next election into a referendum on it. It’s a risk worth taking to get us off this sinking ship. If it fails the only risk is that she’d have to resign.

      But she just doesn’t have it in her. She wants to be a proper British liberal, politely complaining, lauded by the Guardian, spoken of wistfully by Labour moderates, in her comfort zone of banning things in Scotland.

    229. Bob Mack says:


      A few years ago I had a friend who felt categorically that Scotland would and could never declare open hostility with Westminster over the future of Scotland, even by doing what you suggest in writing a simple demand of our Rights..

      The reason given was that it could open the door to the thuggery we have witnessed in George Sq and in N Ireland.

      Orange Lodges have made it very clear they would resist forcefully Scotland being taken out of the Union, by any means possible. A legal referendum circumvents this potential threat to some degree.

      Make no mistake here. There are those in our midst prepared to use violence and weapons should Holyrood unilaterally cede from the Union. That is the risk.

      Alex Salmond knew that the Section 30 minimised this . Perhaps Nicola feels the same.

    230. robbo says:

      Anyone who addresses Nicola Sturgeon like this kinda has a nasty yoon smell side to them don’t you think? The opposition and MSM do it constantly.

      Seems quite a few on here use same tone. Disagree all you like with her on indy position at mo during a pandemic!, but I’ve never heard her address someone by their second name in debates ever,correct me if i’m wrong . It’s the height of bad manners. Not even to B Johnson has she ever done it.

      So, sorry liz,susan and the ‘A person’ you can beat it.If you’re not liking my tone, I don’t give a feck. I’m not a public servant and don’t need to follow the anti NS brigade .

      Did Alex Salmond win me independence ,naw he didnae!

    231. Breeks says:

      Bob Mack says:
      19 June, 2020 at 2:30 pm

      The reason given was that it could open the door to the thuggery we have witnessed in George Sq and in N Ireland.

      Then what else are we doing except forfeiting our Country to the sovereignty of thuggery?

      That’s the cowards way out, to run and hide, quake in fear, while the barricades need defended.

    232. Breeks says:

      Sorry Bob. Not implying anything on yourself Bob Mac… that last comment didn’t come out quite right. 😉

    233. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Well said Breeks!


    234. callmedave says:

      BBC have some colonial numbers and the SUN does England’s + UK total.

      Scotland ……today…..06…….Total…….2470….BBC
      N. Ireland……..00…….Total……..543….BBC
      UK………… data…..Total…..*42334…*SUN

    235. A Person says:


      Quite common to refer to somebody in the public eye by their surname regardless of your view on them. If I ever met her I would obviously not call her “Sturgeon” as that would be rude.

      Salmond didn’t win but he tried to, and he almost managed it against unbelievable odds. Sturgeon isn’t willing to try. That’s the difference.

      If we wanted to criticize her because we were unionists we could do that on the Herald or Mail websites, they think she’s the evil nationalist out to destroy their union, if only she was!

      More generally I’m out of here, this site seems to have a lot of very angry people on it.

    236. mike cassidy says:

      Johnson’s birthday today.

      On a lighter note

      The “socialism” in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.

    237. lothianlad says:

      In my view Alex Salmond will Always be one of Scotland’s great leaders.

      In Catalonia, Independence leaders were jailed by the state because they wanted freedom for Catalonia.

      In Scotland Alex, AN INNOCENT MAN, was nearly sent to jail for the rest of his life, not by the state, but by…….
      Well we All know how really.

      History will prove he put Scotland first

    238. Gary45% says:

      Going by the current idiocy coming from “Boris Rule Britannia” and co.
      Imagine the EU coming to ask Britain to get involved in a post Brexit space ship. Johnson says no obviously, in the deluded misconception that he knows better.
      The EU successfully build and put said space ship into orbit.
      Meanwhile back at the ranch, Rees Mogg is wondering why the made in England attempt hasn’t taken off.(having ignored advice from EU experts)
      Someone then says to him, I think you’ll need more than 2 sparklers for lift off.
      This sort of sums up the quality of the current WM government.

    239. Gary45% says:

      Nice one, that’s why the establishment hate him.
      Hopefully he will be back and this time he will give us Independence.

    240. liz says:

      Robbo I never mentioned your tone.You can say what you like,as will I.

      I was doing you the courtesy of explaining my reasons.
      There is no need to block beer gardens, many owners have spent money over the last few weeks, getting ready to comply with all the rules, if outdoor markets can open, there is no health reason why beer gardens can’t.

      I do dislike NS, that would not stop me voting for indy, you on the other hand seem to base your voting intentions on personality.

    241. Breeks says:

      I would add too, that had such an ultimatum been delivered back in 2016, the BritNat’s and their Union would by now have had 5 years to wrestle with a constitutional dilemma threatening the very existence of their Union that was all of their own making…. five years to read the writing on the wall.

      This ultimatum should have been Scotland’s response to the Brexit result. NOT the arbitrary decision to set aside the Scottish rejection of Brexit, sell out the Scottish Constitution, and lobby for access to the Single Market.

    242. Bob Mack says:


      No it’s all ok Breeks, but perhaps the lesson is that a lawyer may have problems with the methodology you propose, reading it could lead to lawlessness and insurrection among the Loyalist fraternity, who have in the last few years made it very clear they will literally fight..

      Myself. Do it and Damn the consequences. What will be will be.

    243. Fireproofjim says:

      Ireland and Norway, both with populations smaller than Scotland’s, have just been elected to the UN Security Council, with all the privileges and influence that go with that position.
      Too wee …………

    244. PacMan says:

      Just back from the local supermarket topping up a few essentials.

      One day after the next lock-down phase has been implemented and some people are not socially distancing by yapping to each other in aisles, blocking the way for people to get by. Also people can’t even go up the aisle in the right direction.

      Everybody has been doing this for the last 2 months. How hard is it FFS.

      I appreciate I am only supplying anecdotal evidence but in the days to come I’m confident what I have seen will be seen throughout the length and breadth of the country.

      Quite a few people in this forum has been attacking the Scottish government for not opening up Beer gardens. If people can’t even do what they have been doing for the last 2 months sober then how are they going to follow rules needed to get this lock down over as soon as possible when they get a few drinks in them?

      I know that in certain areas of the country and with certain establishments, rules will be adhered to with no trouble but that isn’t going to happen everywhere. The next phase of the health issue will involve local lock downs specific to certain areas. This is going to cause resentment and be hard to keep.

      Nobody is stopping anyone from drinking. Alcohol can be freely bought and consumed in peoples property. Is it really hard to keep Beer gardens shut for a wee while longer to minimise the need for local lock downs?

    245. PacMan says:

      robbo says: 19 June, 2020 at 2:41 pm

      I don’t see the problem, nor it rude, by referring to somebody belonging in the public sphere by their surnames when mentioning them in internet forums.

      In the scheme of things, does it really matter?

    246. callmedave says:

      Ian Holm died aged 88.

      I first remember seeing him away back in 1968 in a film called
      ‘The Bofors Gun’ very very scary stuff. Set in a 1950’s British Army camp in Germany during the National Service.

      He was gunner Flynn and another mad N. Irish gunner O’Rourke played by Nicol Williamson (brilliant actor) went berserk… got drunk and killed the regiment goat if I mind right among other things, all happened in one night guarding the gun. It did not end well… 🙂 Got the dvd

      I blessed the Gov that National Service had been stopped a few years before. Anyhoo! Gone!


      Scotland ……today…..06…….Total…….2470….BBC
      N. Ireland……..00…….Total……..543….BBC

      Still nothing on England only figures. 🙁

    247. Lochside says:

      Breeks and Bob Mack…Even if we get to vote next year for a binding ‘vow’ to make the Scottish Parliament elections about Independence….the neantherdal ‘no surrender’ hordes will descend on George Square for their ‘Derry Walls’ moment of destiny anyway.

      So to quote Ruth Davidson ‘Bring it on’…meaning not a pitch battle between anybody and these lowlifes…but the application by Police Scotland of control of the shadowy leadership and congregation of crowds likely to lead to a breach of the peace.
      Although, if we get the chance to vote, and ( big if) we vote for Independence..the celebrating crowds will send those numbskulls scuttling like cockroaches for cover.

      Let’s face’s the first challenge of the New Scotland is to exorcise the stain of sectarianism and its Saxon bitches from our society before displaying the balls to see off their Imperial masters…. once and for all.

    248. CameronB Brodie says:

      As the music man’s video was unavailable.

      The Temptations – Your Wonderful Love

    249. Capella says:

      @ mike cassidy – interesting read, your “light note”. But I doubt the alt right commenteers will bother reading it.

      @ robbo – I agree. I find the visceral hatred of NS expressed by some on this blog exactly like the visceral hatred of Alex Salmond expressed by unionists. Irrational.

      Nicola Sturgeon was Alex Salmond’s choice as Deputy First Minister and he supported her election to replace him as party leader after Indyref1. When the criminal charges were brought against him he stepped down from the SNP in order to relieve the pressure on Nicola, he said. Not the sentiments of a sworn enemy IMO.
      Perhaps people here think Alex Salmond is a spectacularly poor judge of character. After all, he had many years to assess Nicola Sturgeon’s commitment to independence.

    250. Colin Alexander says:


      The SNP had multiple opportunities to assert Scottish sovereignty using Scotland’s 62% Remain vote as a democratically established sovereign will. They didn’t. They aren’t going to do it now. The SNP leadership only pay lip service to Scottish sovereignty.

      The SNP wouldn’t even assert the fundamental human right to self-determination, never mind a sovereign right to.

      Sturgeon bent the knee by begging for a S30 order. That’s not sovereignty: that’s colonial subservience to British Imperial rule.

    251. Joe says:

      Isnt it interesting how the most painfully clueless are the ones most likely to throw labels around.

    252. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside –

      ‘…the celebrating crowds will send those numbskulls scuttling like cockroaches for cover.’


      In the 935,000 comments btl here, no-one has ever suggested (so far as I’m aware anyway) establishing ‘groups’ to counter these numpties. And that’s because we just don’t need them. Manky Jaikit and his acolytes are mocked – that’s a lot more effective them than challenging them to a square-go.

    253. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      Mussolini was a socialist, not a communist. He was expelled from the PSI for disagreeing with their stance of neutrality in World War I.

    254. Colin Alexander says:

      Any party or politician that believed in the “sovereignty of the people” should be denouncing a UK State that sovereignty of the Crown in Parliament.

      Any party or politician that believed in the sovereignty of the people or even parliamentary sovereignty should have exercised Claim of Right against Purrin Betty and denounced her unconstitutional intervention: “Think very carefully”.

      Any party or politician that opposes sectarianism should challenge the basis of the UK State that Presbyterianism has a protected status above other religious beliefs, whether that’s other Christian denominations or whatever.

      Any party or politician that opposes bigotry / inequality should oppose a UK State that bars Roman Catholics from becoming monarch / head of state. Likewise they should also oppose the head of state also being head of a religious organisation.

      Any party that believes in sovereignty of the people and equality or democracy should have refused to accept an unelected House of Lords, which includes Anglican Bishops, overruling or making legislation for Scotland, or indeed for any part of the UK.

      But, as a first step, any politician or party that believes in sovereignty of the people and equality should refuse to swear allegiance to the nepotistic sectarian UK Anglican monarchy.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      Do you not think I see right through your pretense?


      The gulf between Locke’s understanding the limits of human knowledge, as outlined in the Essay Concerning Human Understanding, and his theory of political rights
      and duties in the Second Treatise on Government, draws much attention from Lockean scholars. As the philosopher often named the “father of liberalism”, many modern political theorists have returned to his writings to find cures for the ailments that have afflicted this ideology throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.

      This thesis intends to demonstrate that a central tension exists between John Locke’s philosophy of language and the tenets of his political liberalism. I argue that this tension is born from the disagreement between his theory of word signification and use and his theory of natural law. A semiotic analysis utilizing the theories of Umberto Eco and Yuri Lotman is used to describe the form and effects of this tension systematically. Lotman’s theory of the semiosphere is especially useful to model the spread and influence of liberalism and its ability to absorb other systems of meaning.

    256. Colin Alexander says:

      Loyalists recognise and celebrate what others don’t want to think about:

      The UK Union is based on anti-Catholic sectarianism or anti-Catholic bigotry.

      The UK State itself is a sectarian organisation.

      When Loyalists celebrate by chanting: Rule Britannia and God Save the Queen, they mean: Rule Britannia as it’s anti-Catholic.

      God save the Queen: because the monarchy is an anti-Catholic sectarian institution of the UK Union.

      That’s what the SNP, Labour etc swear their allegiance to: maintaining a Protestant ruled sectarian UK.

    257. CameronB Brodie says:

      As British constitutional practice is now divorced from, and blind to, the natural law, here’s one that might help folk understand why legal parochialism is so dangerous.

      A Law Professor’s Guide to Natural Law and Natural Rights

    258. Gary45% says:

      Sad news about Ian Holm
      I’ll raise a wee dram to “Big Tam” tonight.

    259. twathater says:

      @ Capella 4.08pm , without being disrespectful Capella I cannot understand you , from your postings you appear to be a very intelligent , compassionate and empathetic individual , yet one minute you are complaining and deriding NS’S policies of the GRA and HATE CRIME BILL and her alignment with the wokeists against females , then in the next minute it’s back to lauding her as an exemplar of a FM whilst ignoring all her previous and current failures

      Obviously my opinion of your actions doesn’t concern you but QH I feel that this is the problem the independence movement has , that there are SO many voters and members who are annoyed and angered at NS and the SNP for their inaction on indy and their continuance of their regressive policies even though it impacts on them personally , but they are willing and eager to compromise their integrity by ignoring her obvious failures and still laud her as Scotland’s saviour

      This reminds me of diehard liebour supporters , that no matter how many lies they told , or how many wars they involved us in , or how many times they promised to abolish the HOL people believed and still do that they were and are a socialist party , go figure

      As I said your opinions are yours to believe and hold but I find them contradictory and confusing , BTW you are not alone but I feel that it is this unchallenging acceptance that will be our downfall

    260. CameronB Brodie says:

      British constitutionalism relies on the preservation of antiquated understandings of reality. Now it has zero respect for authentic history and natural law, so can’t be considered ‘liberal’ or supportive of democracy.

      A Journey into Legal Semiotics

    261. Breeks says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      19 June, 2020 at 4:19 pm

      The SNP had multiple opportunities to assert Scottish sovereignty using Scotland’s 62% Remain vote as a democratically established sovereign will. They didn’t. They aren’t going to do it now. The SNP leadership only pay lip service to Scottish sovereignty.

      I don’t disagree. But “IF” there was to be a change of SNP leadership, an altogether different attitude towards sovereignty could emerge, and emerge very quickly, given that it doesn’t require any swing of opinion, or to overcome any stubborn inertia. A new leader could be parachuted into the job and simply pledge their allegiance to the Sovereign Constitution just as readily as Nicola Sturgeon arbitrarily decided to walk right past and ignore it.

      We are entering the end game scenario for Brexit. There isn’t the time or opportunity for a democratic “get out of jail free” card. There is only a Constitutional escape route left, but for all that, it is still an escape route that is sound in principle and theory, and is one of the few options that can be delivered very quickly.

      The point I’m trying to make is that the SNP can still change tac and salvage this whole Brexit situation for the benefit of Independence and Scotland. It is late in the day, but not too late. There are options which will allow them to do it, if only they can shift or remove the Sturgeon shaped obstruction which is currently blocking the road.

      If they don’t, then Hell mend them. They had a way out and didn’t take it. They’ll never get another vote from me, and I’ll raise my glass to their impeachment.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      If your appreciation and application of the law does not take account of semiotics, natural rights don’t have much of a hope, frankly.

      IRSL 2021 – Call for papers

      23rd International Roundtables for the Semiotics of Law – IRSL 2021
      The relationship between legal rules and the spaces where they become effective is gradually morphing. This change is precipitated by semantic or cognitive – rather than exclusively political – circumstances. The meaning of legal rules is continually challenged by the transformation of their spatial projections and their cultural coordinates.

      Law can no longer assume that discrete spatial circuits and corresponding cultural backgrounds coincide. Conversely, each territorial frame, sometimes even those that are most distant from metropolitan areas, can function (at least potentially) as a hub of innumerous threads of actions and interests. All these connections impinge on the significance of legal rules and, especially, the prognosis for their effectiveness. The daily life of law is affected by this spatial-semantic turmoil….

    263. mike cassidy says:

      Slow tv in the best sense.

      Ian Holm — Game Set Match

    264. jfngw says:

      Guess who?

      ‘then really you are a contemptable idiot of the very highest calibre’

      ‘Isnt it interesting how the most painfully clueless are the ones most likely to throw labels around.’

      It’s our super intelligent poster obviously, you have to laugh.

    265. jfngw says:

      What do you do when you made an arse of yourself with a tracing app. Twist the scientist arms to reduce the alert level is one possibility. Behold the app story has disappeared from the news agenda.

    266. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – Hi crazycat – I know Mussolini wasn’t a communist. I was being ironic. Athanasius’ bizarre argument was just too much to bear! Pity there isn’t an irony emoticon. 🙂
      Or maybe there is?

    267. Gary45% says:

      mike cassidy@5.59
      If you get the chance have a look at a film called The Match.
      Ian is in it along with some other fine actors, it has a great story line, although some of the accents are a bit cringy.
      All in all a great film.

    268. Capella says:

      @ twathater – to explain – I admire Nicola Sturgeon for a great many things. She is, by far, the most competent politician in the UK. She is on top her brief, every day.

      I despise her stand on the GRA. But, I can understand how so many younger women, who have never had the struggle us old guard had, see no problem with men declaring themselves women. They want to be kind and inclusive. They have been hypnotised by woke ideology. I regard it as gross ignorance. I wish they would educate themselves on the history of feminism. I wish they would stop listening to the silver tongued arguments of the trans lobby and start to think rationally and scientifically.

      But that doesn’t make her a monster.

      I know there are people here who believe she is responsible for the arrest and trial of Alex Salmond. I DON’T KNOW and nobody commenting on here knows either. Stu and Craig Murray say they have conclusive evidence. But I haven’t seen it.

      Innocent till proven guilty is a maxim I respect. I believed Alex Salmond to be innocent (although, again, I couldn’t KNOW that).

      I have no doubt that there are highly placed actors in the Scottish Government determined to bring down Alex Salmond and destroy the independence movement. But who? I can’t believe that it is Nicola Sturgeon. I may be wrong.

      Finally, people frame their perceptions according to their beliefs. People who are biased against independence describe Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond in the most insulting and degrading ways possible. Some people seem to think that, if only Alex Salmond were back in charge, the independence movement would forge ahead. They forget recent history.

      I think I’ve said enough for now.

    269. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Capella –

      Isn’t it possible to admire and respect someone whilst acknowledging that they’re in the wrong job?

      I honestly cannot remember the last time NS said anything about independence which wasn’t couched in caveats. You’re honest enough to admit that you just don’t know the full background to her recent behaviour, and neither do we. Many of us now fear that she could justify spinning Covid/Brexit-shaped plates for the next year and possibly much longer.

      ‘Now is not the time’ was Theresa May’s phrase but it’s becoming Nicola’s and that is not acceptable.

      SNP/Yes/Indy supporters almost pulled it off in 2014 by being disciplined and united. That was possible because we had a solid target, a date to aim for, and plenty of time to develop our strategies and arguments. No-one involved in that great effort deserves the shabby, disrespectful treatment we’ve been getting from those we elected to represent our aims (e.g. Pete Wishart’s recent appalling performances on Twitter).

      I don’t know NS (or any SNP high heid yins for that matter) and dislike the personal attacks on her as much as anyone else – all they do is detract from the validity of the cold, hard facts piling up against her. She may be a great woman, character, debater, intellect, ambassador, and heaven only knows whatever else, but she’s not doing the job she was elected to do and has exhausted all possible excuses.

      She has to go eventually, so why not now?

      I’m not asking that as a wind-up and if you feel you’ve said enough, fair do’s. But I really would like someone, anyone, to come here and give us one good reason why she shouldn’t step down, pursue her career elsewhere, and let us get on with the job she will not (or can not?) do.

    270. crazycat says:

      @ Capella at 6.35

      That’s what I expected – my post was for everyone’s information, addressed to you just as a “handle”.

    271. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – cool 🙂

    272. twathater says:

      Capella thanks for your response , as I posted I do respect your views and opinions but I suppose we just have different views on how that can be accomplished
      TBH many people revere NS for some of her policies but again TBH I don’t find them earth shattering or radical I think they are competent and manageable and let’s be honest against what we have had previously and currently have she stands out but again that is not a bragging issue

      I treat politicians like any other tradesperson they are paid to do a job and if that job isn’t up to standard or they fail to do the job they should be sacked , the problem is that politicians are ALLOWED to fail and are only periodically removed

    273. twathater says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 7.36pm I am in 100% agreement

      Breeks and Lochside very well said

    274. Capella says:

      @ twathater – I feel I must point out that politicians are sacked. The public can vote for someone else. The SNP are currently polling at 54%. So the likelihood of being sacked atm is zero.

    275. twathater says:

      @ Capella 10.19pm semantics Capella they are NOT sacked they are just unelected ask Paul Sweeney , and as for the SNP’s ratings you and I know that the public can change their opinions in a heartbeat , all it takes is to ignore people and introduce reviled legislation , just ask the liebour party

    276. Sharny Dubs says:

      I shared the philosophy of the late Hitch, rest his soul, in that all we need to do to solve the worlds financial problems was to empower women, ensure their control over their reproductive systems, provide them with some financial means and the rest would be a slam dunk. As such I embraced the direction of the SNP as a new start, equality in a new Scotland where all will have equal opportunity and equal rights no matter their background or situation.

      Now look where we’re at! Female only short lists! (One way of ensuring loyalty!) Wag the dog minorities, opportunity almost entirely dependent on you belonging to some sort of minority group and being “woke” enough, chicks with pricks, safe spaces. NS has become the embodiment of her nemesis, Thatcher, but only in a different direction! How I hated her, but now find myself viewing NS through the same lens. Self serving, egotistical, arrogant, manipulative, the list goes on.

      What ever happened to feminism? Now not the emancipation of 12 year olds being married off to 60 year olds, or the fight against genital mutilation female or male (which I fear actually goes on here on our doorstep!) But rather a career choice. Insurance that you won’t become “cancelled”.

      So glad I’m older and don’t have to try to make a life for myself out of this bourach. Most of the young people I meet, and I meet quite a few through my young sons, have no interest in this horse sh1t. They are busy getting on with life accepting it for what it is their eyes clouding over is you ask them what they think of it all.

      Sad day when I have to say I will not vote SNP again after a life of devotion. Just hope a decent list seat comes along to keep me honest.

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