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Leopard’s spots resprayed

Posted on November 15, 2014 by

We noted with interest this morning an uncredited story in the Herald, suggesting that Scottish Labour leadership candidate Jim Murphy would stand as an unlikely champion of the poor and downtrodden and the heroic defender of universal benefits.

Murphy rejects Lamont stance on benefit cuts

Jim Murphy has signalled a major shift in Scottish Labour policy if he wins the leadership, saying he would not seek to axe popular benefits and entitlements.”

On investigation, the truth was somewhat at odds with the headline.

Because particularly alert readers may remember the caring, sensitive Jim of April 2010, when an STV debate asked representatives from the four main Scottish parties how they’d cut the deficit.


The SNP’s Angus Robertson had advocated savings from Trident, the ruinous ID-card scheme of the then-Labour UK government and the House Of Lords. Murphy – at that time the Secretary of State for Scotland – had other ideas about the best way to claw some cash back into the Treasury’s coffers:

“I think we could be much more ambitious about cutting the cost of welfare. I genuinely think it should be a rule of our country that you should never be better off on benefit than you should be in work.”

The Herald piece goes on to quote Murphy more extensively:

“I believe in a something for something society. If you pay in you are entitled to get out. People work hard, pay their taxes and stick by the rules. They are right to expect that when they need support it is there for them.

That law-abiding, taxpaying majority are entitled to get something from their contribution. Alongside that you have to keep in view the affordability of it but in principle and by instinct I want to take a different approach: something for something.

There is an issue of fairness. If you have contributed all your years into a system you are entitled to get something back out of it. The contributory principle has been a core component of the welfare state since its inception and that principle can apply in public services as well.”

Allow us to translate, readers. Jim Murphy is NOT against Johann Lamont’s infamous “something for nothing” position, and he’s NOT against benefit cuts. He merely wants to divide the poor into deserving and undeserving, a Victorian-era political strategy more commonly identified as a tool of the Conservatives.

If you’ve paid National Insurance for years, he’s happy to let you keep the miserable and grudging pittance of benefits the UK currently pays (subject to ever more draconian requirements and sanctions).

But if you’re just unlucky? If you have have some terrible disabling accident BEFORE you’ve paid in enough, or were born with a disability? If you’re a mother who spent most of her life raising a family rather than going out to work? If you’re young and can’t find a job because there simply aren’t enough for everyone? Get lost, slacker.

While it’s the most fundamental misunderstanding possible of the intended nature of the welfare state (namely that we all pay in collectively and all can claim if and when needed, rather than being an individual private insurance scheme that just happens to be run by the government), this isn’t new from Scottish Labour, of course. Murphy’s friend and associate on the party’s right wing, Tom Harris MP, made the party’s new stance on the vulnerable crystal-clear some time ago:

“We were set up as the party to represent the values of working people, working being the key word. We weren’t set up as some sort of charity to help the poorest in society – the long-term unemployed, the benefit dependent, the drug addicted, the homeless.”

Murphy is merely reiterating long-standing Labour policy. So despite what the Herald’s unbylined article claims, he’s as keen as mustard on benefit cuts. A fierce advocate of Trident (and hawkish interventionist military policy in general), he wouldn’t sacrifice a single missile to reduce the deficit while there were still some unemployed people he could take the money from instead.

Murphy is undoubtedly the Unionist media’s choice for Scottish Labour leader. One doesn’t have to throw a brick very far before hitting some of his press cheerleaders:

“He is the best chance – even the only chance – for Labour.”
(Alan Cochrane, The Telegraph)

“Jim Murphy is Scottish Labour’s only hope. Murphy it is. Murphy it must be.”
(Alex Massie, The Spectator)

“If Scottish Labour could draft Murphy, they should: he’d be an excellent leader. He’d easily outclass Nicola Surgeon [sic].”
(Fraser Nelson, The Spectator)

“Jim Murphy is, by a distance, the best candidate for the job.”
(James Forsyth, The Spectator)

Our alertest readers will have noticed something of a common thread – all of the above are Conservative commentators writing in Conservative publications. And we know from opinion polls that Conservative voters want Murphy in the job. So viewers can draw their own conclusions from the Herald’s attempt at airbrushing his image into something rather softer and cuddlier than the reality.

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    163 to “Leopard’s spots resprayed”

    1. CalumCarr says:

      Murphy is parrotting the Labour view as outlined by Miliband in June this year.

      My description of Miliband as a Tory cross-dresser applies to Murphy too.

    2. msean says:

      The blue Tories helping their red Tory enablers into oblivion lol,couldn’t make it up.

      Scottish Labour,the peoples party – posted missing when the revolution came.

    3. Clootie says:

      …they did remind us recently that they were the party of the WORKERS.

      I think the founders of a once great party must be hitting very high spin speeds in their graves 🙁

      If it sonds like a Tory, speaks like a Tory then it is a Tory.

    4. Famous15 says:

      Murphy annoys me with his motor mouth matey ness.In the workplace he would be the one to talk a good job but do not try him out on the tools. His shallowness offends my wife and she really can evaluate people.

      Wheres yer ad hominem noo ya balloon?

    5. lochside says:

      I’ve said it all along..Murphy is the Unionist Alliance candidate. They know we are massing to usurp their rotten rule, so cavemen like Cockroach and self abusers such as Nelson are bigging up the crypt kicking corpse.

      In fact, if they could dig up the ‘father of the nation’ and punt him as a viable candidate, our msm pimps would do so.

      Maybe they could dismantle his statue outside Glasgow Concert hall and carry him around the tv studios as per the old movie ‘ALBERT RN’, where the stiff upper lipped Brits toted a dummy called ‘Albert’ around a P.O.W. camp.

      After all one more dummy representing SLAB would not cause ripples over the airwaves.

    6. Sinky says:

      Watch SNP conference on Parliament channel or on SNP facebook

    7. bugsbunny says:

      I was going to say Jim Murphy is the biggest Fanny in Scotland, but decided against it, as a Fanny is a useful tool, whilst Murphy is a useless tool. This is one man who seriously needs to get laid.


    8. HandandShrimp says:

      Politicians wriggle around words like wriggly things so I can Jim re-interpreting his words for the new reality.

      However, the four endorsements should strike ice in the heart of any traditional Labour voter. Ice and Terror.

    9. handclapping says:

      Unfair to leopards, and to Jim. When you stop thinking in trite phrases a leopard is a most amazing animal, very fit for purpose. A top predator even while I leave the antithetical thoughts to you.

      A better analogy might be Clearasil (?) the stuff teenagers slather over their faces to try and hide their acne with Jim in this case being the object of the MSMs intention to deceive about the buboes on the body politick of SLab.

    10. WeeCB says:

      My grandfather was a Labour activist for many years he will be birrling like a peerie. This mob are a joke their lies will catch them up. The people of Scotland have had enough of being lied to by these despicable ("Tractor" - Ed)s.

    11. gus1940 says:

      As far as Leopard Spots and Murphy are concerned I am reminded of that quant old ditty ‘The Wild West Show’ and the spot which represents day 366 in a Leap Year.

    12. Bob Mack says:

      I cannot look at Jim Murphy without seeing a likeness to the” Mock Turtle”. In fact he resembles it in so many ways but especially in the word Mock. He has decided to abandon a lifetime of policy belief having like St Paul on the road to Damascus discovered through divine revelation (OR THE FALLING OF POLL RETURNS), what the people really want. He mocks the electorate. with the supposition that they are too stupid to discern the truth, even though Scotland now has the most clued up electorate in the Western hemisphere. He may also think that they really want to believe and the media will help cement that belief. Sorry Mr Turtle, cheap and shoddy goods no longer accepted in this country. Go back into your shell and try your sales pitch elsewhere. You Mr Turtle are in the soup so to speak, and come May you will be devoured. There are some really desperate people out there in Scotland who need real help from people who give a damn and you and Labour do not fulfil that bill.

    13. Indyracer2014 says:

      Going back to the headline quote that starts the article and our experience of spotting ‘weasel’ words – what does an ‘unpopular’ benefit or entitlement look like? Who gets to define what is popular or unpopular – the press, the Labour party, Jim Murphy…certainly I would suspect, not you or I. And from that point, we are then entitled to ask whether the boldly going Jim would be quite happy and content to axe any benefits or entitlements that didn’t pass a spurious popularity test. Which probably, I suspect, wouldn’t feel like a ‘major shift in Scottish Labour policy’ but would just feel like the same old New Labour into which Murphy is long entrenched.

    14. ceilidhman says:

      Let’s look at oor Jim’s personal record on this, shall we?

      Jimbo, aged 18 and straight from school, went to study Politics and European Law at the University of Strathclyde. He did that for nine years until he left in 1996 without qualifying (yes, that’s right, 9 years at Uni and still not qualifying)to become a Labour party apparatchik. He then was elected as MP for Eastwood at the 1997 general election.

      So, our benefits-hating, something-for-something Jimbo has NEVER worked an honest day’s work in his life. Not one. He has lived off the largess of the state all his adult life, since he was 18.

      Worth bearing in mind, that.

    15. Democracy Reborn says:

      “he would not seek to axe popular benefits and entitlements”

      So Jim has suddenly had a road to Damascus conversion? Ok then. What “benefits” would he not axe? What “entitlements”? Scottish Labour have had long enough since Gray & Lamont to precisely set out their stall. Until we hear specifics, then this is simply spin by the Herald & a naked attempt to play for the left vote in the Labour leadership. And as Stu rightly points out, this from a demonstrably Trident-loving, tuition fee-voting, austerity supporting Blairite. Anyone smell shite?….

    16. Juteman says:

      I can’t believe that Labour Party members in Scotland don’t realise that Murphy is a right wing Tory! He would be happy sitting in Thatchers cabinet, but she might have found him a bit too far to the right.
      Wake up Labour voters!

    17. galamcennalath says:

      SLab have an establish record of lies and deceit. I have little doubt their plan on how to deal with ‘rebellious Scots’ is for Labour to pretend to be the champion of the poor and anti benefits cuts. They will say one thing to Scots stupid enough to believe them, and have a quite different agenda at London HQ.

      They won the referendum by false promises and pretences – it’s their winning formula. And, Murphy is just the man to carry it through. At least that’s they way they will see it!

      Enough Scots now have their eyes wide open. SLab and Murphy will crash and burn in May 2015.

    18. Swami Backverandah says:

      from the SNP conference:
      Robertson says 47 Labour MPs missed a key vote on the bedroom tax, including 10 from Scotland. They included Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown, Anas Sarwar, and Douglas Alexander, he says.

      If they and their colleagues had turned up, the government majority of 26 would have been overturned, he says.

      And they did not turn up because they were paired with the Tories. “Better Together” lives on, he says.

      There’s your newly sprayed cuddly Jim in action.

    19. jimnarlene says:

      “He’d out class Nicola Surgeon” maybe so but, I doubt he’d outclass our soon to be First Minister.

    20. YESGUY says:

      Angus Robertson is on the iplayer.

      What a nice guy he is. The party has a lot of very good folk and the opposition are toothless liars.

      The march on continues.

      P.S.. Oor Sam (Macart) is a guest on the Wee Ginger Dug. Worth a read and shows we are not going away. 🙂

    21. fred blogger says:

      it makes no difference if one has paid in all of one’s life, i know from my own experience, and nor should it, need is need.
      this was established by clem atlee, dignity not charity.

      it has been shown time and time again that free no strings money is beneficial to take people out of poverty and creates a restart, by cause of being down on luck etc.
      a citizens basic income has been proven in india to work wonders in reducing poverty, and saves millions on admin etc.

      situation’s like this say it all.

      see how the country of iceland cut it’s deficit.

      wise investment in uk job’s creation, ensuring key industries and services stay in state hands, ensure’s secure employment, keep’s the tax take up and corp taxes etc, out of the wrong hands.
      keeping the city of london £ stable (not that the £ now is)/property prices/rental incomes/investment yields high and ever expanding portfolios is good for some, but not most.

      does he really use the get out of trouble card “POPULAR benefits”?

      snp, ssp, scotgreens et al to para phrase say, “trust the people, they (we) are the change, they (we) are now in charge.”
      the overriding steel cable, is social justice.

      they want to ensure the system rewards them handsomely and blames the poor for the state they have put the uk economy for the masses, in.

    22. Sinky says:

      bbc again lose the sound on parliament channel.

      in the words of lord foulkes but they’re doing it deliberately.

    23. Given his pro Israel stance and his refusal to condemn the recent slaughter in the Gaza Strip, given his support for the slaughter in Iraq, people on benefits are getting off lightly in the Murphy scales of deserved punishment.

      Surprised at the Herald, they’re normally deadly accurate in their political reporting – not!

    24. Fred says:

      Lord have Murphy on us!

    25. SquareHaggis says:

      Makes me wonder how much has Jim’s put in as compared to what he’s taken out?

      As per benefits & entitlements…

    26. Kevin Meina says:

      The loss of sound was because it was an Snp fundraising section ,BBC don’t allow advertising .Its nearly Nicola time enjoy.

    27. Bob Mack says:

      Yes, Jim Murphy would outclass Nicola Sturgeon .At deception, at lying, at indifference to poverty, at claiming expenses, at warmongering, at dealing with the Tories , at imposing austerity. Nicola, thank goodness your outclassed by this shape shifter.

    28. onelessday says:

      Jim has found no difficulty in taking more than his fair share from the public purse since his nine years at Uni All his adult life he has been a kept man

    29. K1 says:

      Get off BBC! Here’s Stewart Hosie right now…

    30. ticktock says:

      Apologies for o/t so soon but RT’s covered a report on corporate shills sorry “scientists” who say that UK fracking should be completely deregulated. It seems that they’re based at Glasgow University.

      Robert Westaway thinks that earthquakes caused by fracking are a minor inconvenience and that the public should just put up with it. His colleague Paul Younger has been quoted as saying something similar.

      Anyone wishing to discuss this with these prostitutes can do so here :

      Robert Westaway (Systems Power & Energy)
      School of Engineering
      Rankine Building Glasgow University

      Robert [dot] Westaway [at] glasgow [dot] ac [dot] uk

      Paul Younger
      Prof of Energy Engineering Glasgow University
      Tel : 0141 330 5042
      Paul [dot] Younger [at] glasgow [dot] ac [dot] uk

      OFCOM has apparently been considering banning RT from DisUK airwaves. S’all about free speech and democracy y’see. Better together and all that.

    31. ronnie anderson says:

      WE Will Be Seen We Will Be Heard Nicola Sturgeon to the Broadcasters. I hope now we will see our elected representatives on the Front Line of the Bbc Demonstrations & during interviews,tell them they,re Bias.

    32. handclapping says:

      Nicola ‘Any deal with Labour depends on Trident non-replacement’. Oh dear, Jim, what now?

    33. Macart says:

      Endorsed by Cochrane, Massie, Nelson and Forsyth.

      I’m sure Labour and Mr Murphy are so proud (cough).

    34. PickledOnionSupper says:

      There’s going to be a lot more of this over the next few months, as the media tries to rehabilitate SLAB in the minds of the voters before the General Election. Sadly, as we saw with Indyref, it’s going to work on a lot of people.

    35. Nana Smith says:

      From the SNP website…

      Labour have been accused of an appalling error of judgement today after voting to continue the rollout of Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) that are set to see Scotland’s disabled people lose out on support worth at least £1,120 per year.

      In the Scottish Parliament today, Labour attempted to delete a call for Westminster to halt the rollout of PIPs from the motion being debated, a move that was ultimately defeated thanks to SNP MSPs.

      The replacement of Disability Living Allowance with Personal Independence Payments will see around 105,000 disabled people in Scotland lose out on at least £1,120 per year and as a result of changes to eligibility for the mobility component, 47,000 disabled people will lose up to £2,964 per year.

      Commenting, SNP MSP Kevin Stewart said:

      “This is absolutely shocking behaviour from Labour who have today lined up to support the Tory Government’s appalling plans to cut support for disabled people.

      “The rollout of Personal Independence Payments has been a shambles since day one and it is hard to see why Labour has given their support to cutting support worth hundreds of pounds a year to people with disabilities.

      “It shows that when it comes down to it, Labour in Scotland will always back their party bosses at Westminster over the needs of people in Scotland.

      “With the Smith Commission currently looking at Scotland gaining welfare responsibilities, it is entirely reasonable to expect the rollout of PIPs to be halted.

      “Westminster’s repeated failures when it comes to welfare show that Scotland needs to gain responsibility for welfare so that we can support vulnerable people instead of punishing them.”

      The Scottish Parliament today passed the following motion:

      S4M-11494 Margaret Burgess: Welfare Benefits for People Living with Disabilities—That the Parliament notes the damaging and destructive impact of the UK Government’s welfare policies on disabled people across Scotland; recognises that around 105,000 working age disabled people will lose some or all of their disability benefits by 2018 as the result of the replacement of disability living allowance with personal independence payment (PIP), with a loss of at least £1,120 per year and, as a consequence of changes in eligibility to the mobility component, 47,000 disabled people are expected to lose up to £2,964 per year; notes that wider benefit reforms are having a disproportionate impact on disabled people, who already face higher costs of living, and calls on the UK Government to halt the roll out of PIP, which will severely disadvantage disabled people across Scotland.

    36. geeo says:

      As said above….

      Nicola ‘Any deal with Labour depends on Trident non-replacement’

      Nicola ‘The SNP will never help put the tories into government’

      2 Clear messages to both blue and red tories, unequivical statements which every single person should know is true, no last minute change of mind, not slimy wording to use as a get out, plain and simple ‘lines in the sand’ that people should not doubt.

    37. Famous15 says:

      Wha sae base as be a slave!

      Scots wha hae!

    38. Nana Smith says:

      Don’t all laugh too hard now.

      Curran going around spouting phrases like “people need the change that Labour is offering” and of course that old joke about voting snp will let the tories in.

      Oh my aching sides..

    39. Mealer says:

      Murphy stood shoulder to shoulder with theTories to keep nuclear weapons on the Clyde.

    40. handclapping says:

      @Nana Smith
      And its only change that Labour’s offereing, not the full shilling, just nickles and dimes. You end up with a full purse thats worthless.

    41. Calgacus says:

      Bastard EBC just cut off Scots Wha Hae at the conference. Fucking insult.They can GTF. SCUM

    42. jacksg says:

      Watched Nicola’s speech on BBC two.

      Very good speech, she will be a great FM.

      At the end they had in the studio Prof John Curtis..that was when i switched off.

      Not watched BBC for a while but that Brian Taylor looks like he is about to burst put down those pies Brian jeez..

    43. Juteman says:

      Dearie me. Watching BBC coverage, the SNP are now being compared to Jacobites marching on England!
      They are still determined to paint this as an anti English movement.
      BBC Bastards.

    44. fred blogger says:

      Nana Smith
      it saddens me that they still come out with such bland emptying rhetoric, we are the change, we don’t need them!
      to your post on PIP etc the tories have torn out £2bn/yr from the scottish economy since they came to power, via benefits cuts.
      also the scandalous PIP backlog, causes anxiety for many.
      a view from dpac

    45. manandboy says:


      The poor are poor usually because the rich take the money.
      I’d give examples but there isn’t enough room.

    46. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sinky says: 15 November, 2014 at 2:43 pm:

      “bbc again lose the sound on parliament channel. in the words of lord foulkes but they’re doing it deliberately.”

      Well, Sinky, I thougfht it wasw indeed deliberate. Wasn’t it because they were making an appeal for funds?

    47. Alt Clut says:

      Nicola was excellent this afternoon. Through her words the SNP firmly takes what used to be Labour’s ground. Through refusal to put Tories in government at any price, and no Trident replacement as a condition of considering co-operation with Labour, she gives us sound ground to fight on.

      Today was the day that I lost the last, residual shreds of wanting to try to relate to SLAB members. Only their VOTERS are worth our efforts. Anyone who stays with the dying brute after this deserves to go down with it !

    48. Bill McLean says:


    49. @Juteman
      The Jacobites had nothing to do with Scottish Independence what they wanted was to put their own man/woman on the throne of UK,it was never a Scotland /England war.

    50. Croompenstein says:

      Loved Nicola’s speech Scotland is in safe hands,
      the king is dead long live the queen 🙂
      Great commitment to the NHS and also good stance on trident.
      Came home to more emails from private health companies this is where Westminster is trying to take us…

      Health care helps you get prompt access to treatment when you need it. Private health care is designed to treat acute conditions which develop after your policy starts.

      You can choose to add your family onto your policy for complete peace of mind. With a lot of health care providers you can also get discounts for services like gyms as well as health programmes designed to keep you and your family healthy

    51. ronnie anderson says:

      Some of they NO voters dont like Nicola,s speech they,ve ripped the Yes signs aff ma Wee Shed mwhaa,awe year its been there untouched deyye think they,re rattled noo.


    52. SquareHaggis says:

      O/T but this really p155es me off.
      England v Slovenia live on STV yet last night we have to trawl obscure websites to watch our national team play in Glasgow.

      So, so sick of this.

    53. boris says:

      Rona and her husband Tom are close friends of George Osborne, his wife and the Tory party inner circle. They also readily mix with the Highclere Estate set in which they have one of their homes.

      Sir Jeremy Heywood, cabinet secretary, and leader of the UK’s civil service exercising his power decided to press on and will begin interviewing Rona and others candidates today.

      David is insisting on a female appointment. Looks to be a shoo in for Rona.

      Yet another scandal.

    54. Croompenstein says:

      @ronnie – Do you think we might be hitting a nerve..

      They don’t like it up em…

    55. Lenny Hartley says:

      FFS, al the Proud Scot Buts, singing they will rise now and
      be a nation again, gives me the boak.

    56. Christian Schmidt says:

      “I genuinely think it should be a rule of our country that you should never be better off on benefit than you should be in work.”

      I agree – so start paying proper wages!

    57. Famous15 says:

      “And be a nation again”

      Jesus wept. That is not blasphemy .

    58. One_Scot says:

      Not sure if I have this right, but now that the SNP have changed the rules for potential SNP MPs not having to be SNP members, does this mean that someone like Tommy Sheridan can become an SNP MP, march down to London and set Westminster on fire, literally, or is it, not literally, I always get that mixed up.

    59. Christian Schmidt says:

      One of the funny things is of course seeing these right-w(h)ingers one the one hand condemn the so-called entitlement culture while on the other hand saying there should be no “something for nothing” and distinguish between those lucky enough to be able to contribute more and those that are not. Who’s fostering an entitlement culture here???

      If they read the Beverage Report again, then they would learn that welfare is here to help those in need – in fact that’s the whole basis of any insurance scheme, that we all benefit hugely, much more than we are ever ‘entitled’, when we need it, and that we are worse off when we don’t!

    60. Christian Schmidt says:

      In fact, what Murphy and others propose is a savings schemes – *if* you have paid in, you’ll get something out. It is exactly going back to where we were before the welfare system.

    61. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Croompenstein 5.54. Noo am one person that knows awe aboot nerves an they fekers will need a spinal tap tae cure there,s,whits that song am thinking aboot o i Under Presure.

    62. Nana Smith says:



      MPs: Give the money you took from private healthcare companies to a local NHS charity

    63. Dr Jim says:

      Did anybody else hear Andrew Kerr say earlier “What particular bitch “Ahem” bits of her speech, “referring to Nicola Sturgeon”……… The rest was meaningless
      Slip of the tongue?…Or what he was thinking?

    64. dougiekdy says:

      Murphy ya prick, “something for something”? What about your expenses – is that “something for something”?

      No, ya freeloading b*stard, it’s something for nothing.

      Sooner we get rid of these “Labour” parasites the better.

    65. punklin says:

      Wishful thinking by all those Tory commentators and so many others – Jim Murphy is a mediocre performer. He has zero charm nor much sense of humour. No statesmanlike points come from his whining gub. He is at best vapid and at worst niggardly and Blairite.

      You’d think he might be at least impressive in interviews but he won’t persuade a single neutral voter. Being able to string a few more words together than the last branch office manager doesn’t make him a leader. At least wee Dougie the lickspittle Alexander comes across as articulate and measured.

      Sorry SLab, Jim just won’t be able to convince real people, however much the commentariat might be fooled.

    66. pete the camera says:

      “You will never be better off with benefits than you are in work”

      That works great with the base line being some one in work on a “zero hours contract” with next to no hours per week, with next to no money coming in, it sounds good Jim even when he can’t live on an Mp’s wages without grabbing as much in expenses as he possibly can, he is a maggot that has to be crushed as soon as possible

    67. ronnie anderson says:

      bbc reporting alls well in the NHS sooth of the border except Colchester or is that them at the Bias again.

    68. ronnie anderson says:

      Sunday paper heidlines. ED Millibands got the X Factor plus diz it cure dandruff,noo where did ah put ma tammy.

    69. Flower of Scotland says:

      Went to Perth today to be amongst those that wanted to thank Alex Salmond. There were hundreds! Saltires flying, people, including myself wrapped in our YES saltires, from all over Scotland. I stood with some women from Ayr and a couple from Inverness wanting to be there to saver the moment. Alex eventually came out and was mobbed! Two Policemen standing by me said “there,s no protection!”. Someone piped up that Alex is ours and we will look after him! He eventually stood on some steps after doing half an hour of selfies and said thanks but that he was going no where! He thanked us, the people, and asked us to continue on our road to Independence. It was amazing!

    70. Lenny Hartley says:


      It sticks in the gullet when you have at least 30 thousand folk who voted no singing it….

    71. Juteman says:

      @Scot Finlayson.

      Granny. Eggs.
      You obviously missed my point.

    72. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana Smith 5.53 .signed NanaCmon folks sign the Petition, gives the a headache at least.

    73. Nana Smith says:

      Thanks Ronnie. I’m sure Darling has gone deaf and blind so he won’t be giving anything back.

      His type don’t do anything for humanity. In fact I wonder sometimes if they human.

    74. Jim Thomson says:

      @Ronnie Ah telt ye that ye should’ve yaised Nae Mair Nails.

      Nuhhin shifts efter thon’s slapped oan it.

    75. SquareHaggis says:

      @Lenny Hartley,

      Sure, the tartan army singing FoS does stick in my craw but what sticks worse is the fact that the effing Scottish broadcasters have been getting away with selective coverage like this for years.

      No Scotland team on TV unless they are playing England, absolute bias right there.

      Scots pay their licences, why deny them what they pay for?

    76. Stoker says:

      Swami Backverandah says:
      15 November, 2014 at 2:36 pm
      from the SNP conference:
      Robertson says 47 Labour MPs missed a key vote on the bedroom tax, including 10 from Scotland. They included Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown, Anas Sarwar, and Douglas Alexander, he says.

      If they and their colleagues had turned up, the government majority of 26 would have been overturned, he says.

      And they did not turn up because they were paired with the Tories. “Better Together” lives on, he says.

      There’s your newly sprayed cuddly Jim in action.


    77. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Stoker


      If they had no pair who was a Tory, their vote would have been canceled out by the Tory voting for the motion.

      In fact, on most of the votes, most of the MPs needn’t vote as their vote is canceled out by the majority.

      This is a consequence of the whipping system.

      They really are automatoms, and also known as lobby fodder”.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scot Finlayson says: 15 November, 2014 at 4:58 pm:

      “The Jacobites had nothing to do with Scottish Independence”.

      The Jacobite uprisings, (termed rebellion by England), was all about Scottish Independence and is not complicated. In 1603 King of Scots, James VI, inherited the English Crown when, “The Kingdom of England”, had annexed Wales, in 1284, and Ireland, in 1542. This couldn’t form a United Kingdom as, while both crowns rested upon the same person’s head, the Two Kingdoms remained independent. Thus the shared monarch was not designated, “James I of Great Britain”, and why both kingdoms remained independent until 1706/7.

      However, in, 1688 the parliament of The Kingdom of England deposed James II of England but, as both kingdoms were still independent, the English deposition of their monarch could not automatically depose the monarchy of Scotland. The English Parliament imported King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange as English joint monarchs but removed from them the royal veto over the English parliament, (Making England/Wales/Ireland a Constitutional Monarchy. As Scottish & English monarchy were still independent the legal monarch of Scotland was still the direct Stewart line and you cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own.

      Firstly the English Parliament only wanted James’ daughter Mary and King Billy to act as regents until James’ VII new born son, James Francis Stuart,(The Old Pretender), reached his majority. King Billy, though, insisted on becoming King along with his wife, Mary and the English Parliament agreed. This kicked off the Subsequent, “Jacobite Uprisings”, (Jacobite comes from the Latin word for James – Jacobus). King James VII tried to regain his throne but, on July 12, 1690, King Billy defeated James in the Battle of the Boyne. After which King James VII died in exile in 1701.

      King Billy & Mary died childless and Mary’s sister Anne succeeded her. Queen Anne also died childless. The now joint Parliament decided, (by a mayority of one in 1714), to ask George, the Elector of Hanover to become king of Britain. The Treaty of Union was signed in 1706/7. and there were Jacobite insurrection in Scotland – in 1715, when James Francis Stuart, “The Old Pretender”, tried to regain the direct Stewart line claim to the throne. George’s mother, Sophia, was grand-daughter of King James VI. And the legal rules of succession gave James Francis Stuart, (The Old Pretender), the stronger right to the throne. In 1718, James Francis Stuart married Princess Clementina Maria Sobieski of Poland, (one of the wealthiest females of royal birth in Europe), and their son was Prince Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Silvester Maria Stuart, (Bonnie Prince Charlie).

      Another Jacobite uprising was by The Young Pretender, (Bonnie Prince Charlie), In 1744 the French offered a fleet of ships and 7,000 soldiers to help Charles restore the Stuarts to the British throne. Charles set sail for Scotland and, on 23 July 1745, Charles landed with, “The Seven Men of Moidart”. The Prince’s standard was raised at Glenfinnan at the head of Loch Shiel. There followed the Battle of Prestonpans, after which General Sir John Cope, became the first general to take news of his own defeat to London. After five weeks in Edinburgh, Prince Charles crossed the English border with 5,500 men and advanced through England. By 4 December they reached Derby, (just 120 miles from London). The Prince’s advisers recommended retreat but they did not know London was in panic and King George had packed his valuables packed on a boat on the Thames. After retreating back to Scotland they engaged with the Hanoverian army near Falkirk and, on 17th January, the Highlanders inflicted heavy casualties on the redcoats who retreated in utter confusion. In the entire campaign from Glenfinnan to Falkirk the Jacobite army had never been defeated. The, “What if”, being that if the Jacobites had followed through and marched into London or if they had followed through after Falkirk, things could have been a very different story.

      As the, “Treaty of Union”, was signed in 1706/7. You no doubt can work out why the English were cheating and lying then and why they had undercover agents like the founder of the Bank of England, William Paterson, who led the disastrous Darien Expedition and the English Spy, Author Daniel Defoe operating in Edinburgh to force the Scottish Parliamentarians to sign the Treaty. Then came Culloden on, on 16 April 1746. “Butcher” Cumberland gave the order that no quarter was to given and and many wounded Jacobites were later butchered. So there you go, 40 years after the signing of the Treaty of Union the Westminster Establishment took it’s revenge upon Scotland.

      Do you imagine they will be any less bent upon revenge if we do not follow through and gain our independence while we are strong?

    79. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Jim Thomson If I hud uased nae mair nails the side of the shed wuld huv cam aff wie the sign lol.

    80. Natasha says:

      @Flower of Scotland 6.21pm

      I’m so envious of you; I wish I could have been there! I really hope someone posts up some footage of it on youtube or facebook. If you come across any links, could you put them on here? 🙂

    81. heedtracker says:

      He’s looking at the teamGB debt mountain, the extraordinary deficit and monumental personal debt and its not red or blue tor;es fault is it. Their ID card insanity would have cost at least £12 bn, employed several thousand more in the public sector but all of it was debt. You can only keep raiding Scots oil so much before you have finally squandered the lot, as in giant English flagship projects like the 2012 Olympics. Get the dole scroungers first.

    82. balgayboy says:

      @Robert Peffers says: 7:14.

      Informative post, I think from now on we should remove the royals/monarchs from the argument and just go for good old fashion straight republicanism.

      Drops a lot off baggage off.

    83. Lollysmum says:

      O/T I know sorry (actually no, I’m not)

      Does anyone know if BBC was the only company that filmed the conference? Independence live didn’t film it nor anyone else as far as I can tell.

      I’m searching for video of this afternoon’s session (had to go out so missed it live) & it’s painful sitting here reading others posts about it when I’ve not. It hasn’t been posted on iplayer.

      Doesn’t it strike you as ridiculous that SNP trusted the BBC to film & show it in its unabridged form particularly when the Referendum demonstrated so clearly that BBC is completely biased towards anything Scotland related.

    84. fred blogger says:

      right says robin mcalpine we’re just going to crack on as if we won indyscot.

    85. muttley79 says:


      They are still determined to paint this as an anti English movement.

      The more things change, the more they stay the same….The BBC have always been like this with the SNP/and now the wider independence movement.

    86. Dr Ew says:

      The Conservatives began controlling the political agenda in the late 70s, and the Labour Party of the late 80s began to concede that agenda’s key economic arguments. By the time the People’s Party abandoned its core principle of securing “for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof” – the price of its soul demanded by Blair on his 1994 ascension – the difference was in social policy: They wouldn’t monkey with the economics but, by Jove, they wouldn’t accept the racist, homophobic, chauvinistic prejudices of the Bad Tories.

      Through the first half of their 13-year power stint, Labour soft pedalled a “we care for the poor” vibe, and were noticably less shrill and condemnatory than the Tories. Four years of a Tory (ahem, “Coalition”) Government has changed that. The pretence there is anything but the slightest nuance between the two in terms of economic OR social agenda has been abandoned faster than its belief in Clause 4. Daily Mail-speak calls the tune in the Labour Party. Jim Murphy is their man. The fact the Tory press love him and despise Salmond and Sturgeon tells you all you need to know: Vote Labour, Get Tory.

    87. balgayboy says:

      Need to stop going on about the BBC, we all know what they are about as does the SNP. It’s up to us & the SNP to get around this pile of shit and continue to gather independence followers.

      BTW: remember to vote for Judy Murray tonight even just to further piss off the torygraph tosser.

    88. @Lollysmum

      Moridura has Nicola’s speech the rest of the utube link has gone private again.

      Anyone know how I can copy the video stored in temp files?

    89. Malky says:

      Murphy is an emotionally bankrupt moron. He should not even be a politician.

    90. Mealer says:

      The plucky Brits tried hard against the Allblacks at Murrayfield this afternoon and for a while looked like they might win for their region.If the Kiwis decide to dump the Butchers Apron from their flag I bet the SRU would be delighted to use it instead of the saltire.

    91. Rock says:

      “So viewers can draw their own conclusions from the Herald’s attempt at airbrushing his image into something rather softer and cuddlier than the reality.”

      And Yes supporters still buy the Sunday Herald?

      We are indeed too stupid.

    92. Rock says:

      “Leopard’s spots resprayed”

      Yes, and many of us were fooled when the Herald resprayed one seventh of its spots.

      Will we ever learn?

      Do not buy the Sunday Herald.

    93. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      So, wheres the fight tonight?

    94. Once again, why are we acting surprised by this article? During the referendum campaign, as we all know, the M.S.M were united in their hostility to the Yes movement, so this is merely one of the first shots across our bows in the run-up to next years General Election. We mustn’t underestimate the power of the media, and certainly I believe that it was they who won the referendum for the No campaign. They, the Westminster establishment, with the connivance of their media allies, will once again tell any lies, distort any story, omit any fact, to try to derail our campaign to get as many pro-independence M.Ps elected as possible.Yes, this site along with all the others who support our position are great, but we need even more if we are ever going to make an impact on those of the electorate who are still undecided, or even those who don’t at present intend to vote for our candidates.

    95. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Dr Ewe

      Have you been reading Oborne’s book about the “rise of political lying?”


    96. Bob Mack says:

      The North British rugby team are the way they are, as Princess Anne is patron and supporter. Would not be good for them to let a pal down would it? Nation yes.Pal and patron no. Besides being in team G.B.( WHEN YOU FLIP OVER AND STOP BEING SCOTTISH) entitles you to honours and foreign trips. Sorry, but wont be going again until they regain some of their pride. Perhaps we could suggest they change their emblem to a rose rather than a thistle which is the emblem of Scotland. Good to get my vitriol out

    97. macnakamura says:

      “Murphy rejects Murphy stance on benefit cuts.”

    98. Lollysmum says:

      @ cynical highlander

      Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Managed to watch parts 1 & 3 but 2 is missing-is that where she issued her challenge to WM about Trident?

      Certainly good to hear much of what she said but I can’t help thinking that it would have been awesome to be sitting in that audience. Ha-I keep telling my grandson off about using ‘awesome’ & now I’m doing it!

    99. TJenny says:

      As well as making a wonderful speech, aren’t Nicola’s shoes superb? If Paula Rose sees these she’ll be on a mission to find a pair for the Wings gathering next Saturday. 😉 (hope link works)

    100. SquareHaggis says:

      Nicola speech in 3 parts

    101. Orlando Quarmby says:

      The Herald are becoming quite notorious for unattributed stories – recall last week’s claiming that Salmond had claimed he would be the ‘King maker’ or even Deputy PM at Westminster after the 2015 General Election. As the Herald piece was clearly based upon Salmond’s interview on the Ansrew Marr Show, in which he made no such claims or used the phrases ‘King maker’ or ‘Deputy Prime Minister’, then the Herald is bringing itself into particular journalistic and editorial disrepute – a difficult feat amongs today’s mainstram media. Obviously it’s purely coincidental that this unattributed spin which falls apart after even a cursory examination works pejoratively against Salmond and favourably for Murphy. The Herald’s covering of their backsides in a purely commercial gambit by having the Sunday Herald represent a specious support for independence is nothing more than a transpsarent veil over the Unionist agenda of this publishing house which is ready to stoop to the misrepresentations of all the Unionist ms media.

    102. Cadogan Enright says:

      SquareHaggis says:
      15 November, 2014 at 9:33 pm
      Nicola speech in 3 parts

      Thanks – back soon C:

    103. Davy says:

      ref : Bugsbunny early comment that “whist murphy is a tool. That man seriously needs to get laid”.

      Wash your mouth out with soap, sheep have feelings too.

    104. @Lollysmum

      All 3 pts are there as they are on his utube channel.

    105. @Bugger (the Panda) says:

      So, wheres the fight tonight?

      In the jungle looking for your lost avatar.

    106. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Labour woes?

      Check out this curio, from 1970, featuring three legends; Robin Day, Michael Foot, and Manny Shinwell (born 1884!) –

    107. Morag says:

      I’m glad I was actually in the auditorium, watching it all unedited and without commentary. It never really occurred to me how the BBC would spin it, although I did think about how Labour and the Tories will spin it.

      It was fantastic being in the middle of the packed hall, with everyone so motivated and so together. (Apart from Jerry Fisher, who never changes.) And if they didn’t show the band at the end you were short-changed, they were fantastic. Unfortunately when I tried to find them on YouTube, all I got was some crappy TV series (The Tribe). They did say, see you at the Hydro, as they left the stage.

      I happened to run into Brian Taylor, in the flesh. And there is rather a lot of that. Frankly he looks terrible. Ill. A walking heart attack in the making. He desperately needs to copy Alex’s diet sheet.

    108. @Morag

      I watched the whole thing on utube and time flew but why have the SNP made it private to replay or what are they afraid of?

    109. Cadogan Enright says:

      Methinks Nicola is going to be better than pretty damn good – instinctively knows how to look outside of her own constituency and broaden the appeal of the Independence movement.

      Clearly right about Scotland holding probably holding the balance of power, and that that control of the balance will only be used as it should if the Labour road-block is out of the way.

      And her proposal with Angus yesterday to win more seats by asking SNP constituency organisations to consider running non SNP or new SNP candidates – where it will help clear the ‘roadblock.

      What a great weekend. Could not have been better.

    110. Cadogan Enright says:

      cynicalHighlander 10.34:

      ????? must be something wrong with your computer. try from Squarehaggis

    111. Morag says:

      I haven’t tried to find it on YouTube and I have no idea why the SNP would prevent people from watching. There weren’t even any private (members-only) sessions.

    112. Croompenstein says:

      All our problems will be solved when England gets home rule…
      Last verse and this was in 1976 🙂

    113. Nana Smith says:

      John Swinney for deputy

    114. Croompenstein says:

      Is Marcia on holiday ?

    115. caz-m says:

      Ronnie, where have you been? lol.


      Sky News press preview, not one English newspaper covered the Nicola Sturgeon speech, totally out of order.

      It’s back to the news blackout days of the Referendum.

      MARCIA!!! where are you? Give us some good old Scottish news.

      All news of the Westminster peadeophile ring has gone quite.

    116. yesindyref2 says:

      He he, Jim Murphy to complete the demoltion of the Scottish branch office of the Labour party.

      Ooops, I forgot they might be spying on us for opinions.

      Help me Rona, Murphy, oh no, that’ll ruin our chances, we’re doomed!

    117. Marcia says:

      Is Marcia on holiday ?


    118. crazycat says:

      @ Croompenstein

      I think she said she was not going to be around this week. At the Conference?

    119. crazycat says:

      @ Marcia

      Sorry! I thought you were away away. Should have done the posting equivalent of keeping my mouth shut.

    120. @Croompenstein

      No pic on SH twitter feed but JS to be deputy FM.

    121. @Croompenstein

      No pic on SH twitter feed but JS to be deputy FM.

    122. Marcia says:


      Here is the Sunday Herald front page.

    123. I see my double is posting oh well I found BtP in the jungle now can I elude my shadow?

    124. Marcia says:

      Anyone with a link to today’s live (recorded) coverage of today’s SNP Conference other than NS’s speech? I watched parts of yesterday’s coverage when I could in France without any technical hitch.

    125. Chic McGregor says:


      “Jimbo, aged 18 and straight from school, went to study Politics and European Law at the University of Strathclyde. He did that for nine years until he left in 1996 without qualifying (yes, that’s right, 9 years at Uni and still not qualifying)to become a Labour party apparatchik. He then was elected as MP for Eastwood at the 1997 general election.”

      I looked up Mr Murphy’s ‘career’ some years ago (about 8 years ago), from what I recall he was 9 years at Strathclyde until ’94, he then took a sabbatical of a further two years to become president of the NUS.

      So he was technically a student for 11 years (with no degree at the end of it).

      Also, if I recall correctly, as president of the NUS it was he who delivered acceptance by that organisation, against much predictable opposition at the time, for the concept of tuition fees. i.e. his hand was on the ladder.

      I did read accounts of how he allegedly dealt with that opposition, the details of which through the mist of time elude me now, but I remember they were not pretty.

    126. TJenny says:

      The Sunday Herald’s front page, if this post appears and the link works. (I think Marcia said she’d be out of the country this weekend).

    127. Gordon E says:

      Nana Smith @ 10.55

      Good call for John Swinney for Deputy.
      What a team that would be.

    128. TJenny says:

      Soz Marcia, I too thought you were on holiday, and my Herald link will (poss) appear in @ 20 mins.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      Swinney as DFM is a great choice, but surprising. The obvious move would have been to have Keith Brown I guess, considering he was close in the deputy leader election.

      But it’s completely logical, it gives Swinney great status in the last few days of the Smith Commission, which could be the turning point for Scotland whichever way it goes. It means Swinney now speaks with full authority, subject only as it were, to Parliamentary approval if appropriate.

      I’ve got to admit Swinney is one of my favourite politicians, he’s just so steady with the finances (whatever unionists say).

    130. Marcia says:

      The Sunday Herald front page can be seen here

    131. @Marcia

      I have it here on my computer until I switch off then it goes chasing comets around the solar system never again to be seen in my lifetime. I have asked how I can save it but as of now no takers so…………

    132. Marcia says:


      I don’t like using others computers as you get used to your own computer. Back to my own one next week when I get home.

      Better link to the SH front page.

    133. Croompenstein says:

      Nice one Marcia, Nicola looks great…

      Enjoy your holiday 😀

    134. Bob Mack says:

      Had to explain to a neighbour today why it would not be better to vote Labour to keep the Tories out. He had obviously listened to Nicolas speech. LOOK said I. If you vote Labour they will go to Westminster like before, and like before they will follow the National Labour party line whether or not it is in Scotlands best interest, as their leader in the Commons is E Milliband esq ,and not Jim Murphy. If you vote S.N.P., you can be certain they will look after Scottish interest. “Got it” says he.” But a man on the television said that if your going to vote with Labour only, and not Tory, why not just vote Labour anyway”. Oh! the power of media. Eventually we got it sorted out that there was a difference between the two, but it made me realise just how susceptible some people are to broadcasting bias.

    135. Greannach says:

      Wow. He and Harris are nasty pieces of work. Glad they weren’t in power when I broke my knee and was off work for 14 weeks. Horrible to admit it, but it was a Tory government in charge when I got my state handout (as Sincerity Jim might call it).

    136. Marcia says:

      I think John Swinney, Nicola Sturgeon and Stewart Hosie were in the same SNP branch in Glasgow all those years ago before the Holyrood era. I doubt if any of them would have believed you if you said how far in politics they would go.

    137. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –

      That link isn’t working…

      Anyway, how you doing? Please come over to O/T more often – ye’re missed, and we need someone to keep half a peeper on that Paula Rose character. She’s quiet tonight (hangover-related it seems) but has been causing all sorts of mayhem, winding-up the chaps with her saucy blether.

    138. TJenny says:

      Ian – Hi, I’ve posted on OT. Having probs with disappearing comments, though. 🙁

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      Great picture in the SH. There’s Alex standing behind Nicola saying “GO Nicola”, and there’s Angela Constance on the other side looking for the wider YES movement. I hope they make an official role for her in that, she’ll be excellent. Zany enough to fit in with us nutters.

    140. Desimond says:

      That nice caring Tom Harris was duly pictured a `Join Labour for only a five a month´ form put through my 70 yr old stroke victim Mothers door this weekend.

      Wonder if Jim would stop her Benefits if she went in for such extravagances.

      Cue a loud rip

    141. Stoker says:

      I’ve really been enjoying this SNP conference and there’s been
      quite a few good speeches and speakers. Leaving out those we
      would normally consider the really big female guns of the SNP,
      the following handful of female speakers really impressed me –
      Gail Ross.
      Mhairi Black.
      Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh.
      Breege Smyth.
      Aileen McLeod.

      They impressed me that much they forced my thinking onto who
      have the enemy got to rival these women and no-matter how hard
      i thought i just couldn’t think of anybody in the enemy camp as
      good as these women. The only 2 that might be allowed to lace
      the boots of the aforementioned 5 women, i thought, would be
      Ruth Davidson and Skeletors Skivvy – aka Fifi La Dug.

      AYE, the enemy must be keekin their breeks at the wealth of
      talent in the Yes movement because the above mentioned 5 are
      only a small sample out of the SNP – i don’t really want to be
      responsible for scaring the Unionists shitless so i’ll not
      mention there’s hundreds more within and beyond the SNP.

      Scottish soldiers were once referred to as “the women from hell”
      due to them wearing the kilt and their relentless onslaught
      accompanied by the bagpipes.

      After what i’ve been witnessing i think the Unionists are about
      to experience a whole new meaning to that “women from hell”.

      btw, Thanks for everything Eck.
      I’ve been with you every step of the way.

    142. maxi kerr says:

      Murphy is a purple politician with purple politics and works for the purple party……..Its what you get when you mix the blue and the red.?

    143. Dair says:

      Jim Murphy has lived his entire life on benefits without ever paying on.

      He grew up in South Africa and possible served a stint in the Apartheid National Army of South Africa. He then returned to the UK without his parents having paid anything into the pot and became a perennial student. After 7 years (if he served in the Apartheid SA Army) or 9 years if he didn’t, he then spend the rest of his life earning money from taxpayers and not the economy. Student Union President – tax money. Spad – tax money. MP – tax money. MP expenses – more tax money. He’s never paid into the pot but he has got an awful lot out of it.

    144. Invisible handcuffs says:

      I’m a normal person. Get me out of here.

    145. Invisible handcuffs says:

      Cyrtis was right. The 55 are split. Now is the time for dirks and German gift. No prisoners.

    146. Invisible handcuffs says:

      The iron fist is pewter as is it’s mounting.

    147. thoughtsofascot says:

      An upside of having Murphy lead labour: South Asian Scots will likely move to the SNP in droves.

    148. No no no...Yes says:

      Don’t do Twitter but the REV has just said that Neil Findlay is on Andrew Marr programme and that SLAB policy is to oppose the renewal of Trident. Oh really, what about this then:

      Methinks Finslay is making it up as he goes along and is out of his depth.

      Nicola’s speech about Trident was strategically excellent. The dividends are being reaped already. Tick tock

    149. Krackerman says:

      Findlay was just on the Marr show – pretty much admitting that his policy is to promise the Scots anything including no renewal on Trident without any ability to deliver on them…

      Can’t believe he openly admitted they intend to promote policies that they clearly cannot deliver!!!??!!!

      Are people stupid enough to buy this?

    150. Morag says:

      What, he really said that?

    151. Macart says:

      Doesn’t matter what the local branch manger, branch manager elect or prospective branch manager promises. They are simply empty promises with neither weight nor relevance to HQ in London. The local branch are required to fill out forms in triplicate to gain permission to hold a discussion, which will lead to a committee, which will become a vote on whether they can go for a wee between tea breaks.

      In effect they are useless to defending the interests of the Scottish electorate in the current partnership arrangement. This is about defending our interests at the end of the day. This is (for the moment) a formal partnership and like any business arrangement, you are looking for people who will defend your legal rights and vested interests.

      That won’t be Labour then, for the obvious reason that their loyalties are compromised. How can you represent the interests of one ‘client’ when you work for both and your head office is in the other ‘client’s’ back yard?

    152. Stoker says:

      Krackerman says:
      16 November, 2014 at 9:44 am
      “Findlay was just on the Marr show – pretty much admitting that his policy is to promise the Scots anything including no renewal on Trident without any ability to deliver on them…
      Can’t believe he openly admitted they intend to promote policies that they clearly cannot deliver!!!??!!!
      Are people stupid enough to buy this?”
      No no no…Yes says:
      16 November, 2014 at 9:34 am
      “Methinks Findlay is making it up as he goes along and is out of his depth.”

      Yes, your ears did not deceive you, it was nothing short of the
      standard British Bullsh!t Constipation from a Slabber rep.

      A proper broadcaster would have pushed the Labour and made it clear that we are all very aware that whoever gets appointed as Slabber branch manager, will do EXACTLY as their London masters
      tell them.

      AYE, he most certainly was making it up as he went along.

      As for people being stupid enough to buy his tripe –
      i think the ever growing SNP membership would suggest, eh, NAW!

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @balgayboy says: 15 November, 2014 at 7:34 pm:

      “I think from now on we should remove the royals/monarchs from the argument and just go for good old fashion straight republicanism. Drops a lot off baggage off.”

      Well, balgayboy, it isn’t quite so simple as that. Historically our legal systems, (particularly in the three country Kingdom of England), are bound up in sovereignty.

      In Scotland, when Bruce murdered the Red Comyn on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk, the then international authority, (the Pope), excommunicated him. In those days there were no Christian sects and the law was, “The Divine Right of Kings”. That meant that monarchs owned everything including their subjects. All Scotland was thus excommunicated and an excommunicated royal could not have Divine right and become a sovereign monarch. That was the inspiration for the Declaration of Arbroath.

      It not only declared that Scotland was an independent kingdom but that the people, not the monarch, were sovereign. That is the main basis of the independent Scottish Law. Note that in the three country Kingdom of England everything is legally still owned by the crown. It is Her Majesty’s Government, Her Majesty’s Treasury, Her Majesty’s armed forces and her Majesty’s treasury. That is the basis of English/Welsh/N.I law.

      Westminster has, (just as they did in 1688), assumed that Westminster has full sovereignty over Scotland but they do not legally do so. In effect, under Scottish law, the people are sovereign and the Monarch is not, “Queen of Scotland”, but is, “Queen of Scots”. In effect the monarchy are the, “Protectors of the people’s Sovereignty”.

      We have thus always been, if you like, free of the Royal ownership. In fact the Declaration of Arbroath stipulates that we, the people, can sack the monarch and appoint another in his/her place. In fact the powers invested in Westminster for England/Wales/N.I. are the delegated powers of the monarch but in Scotland they are the powers delegated by the sovereign people of Scotland . See, “The Scottish Claim of Right”.

      So, although I’m no royalist, we really must keep with the royals until we sort out our Scottish independence. After which we have the legal right to appoint whoever we choose as our, “Monarch”, as stated in the, “Declaration of Arbroath”. In effect we vote for and appoint a person as, “Protector of our sovereignty”. Much like they do in, for example, the USA, where they call such an elected person, “The President”.

      Go read this section of the text of the Declaration of Arbroath and see that the above is true. : –

      This about Robert Bruce –

      “Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”

      You can read the full text here : –

    154. yerkitbreeks says:

      Stuart, I wonder if the comments above have missed the implication in your last sentence ?

      Are you suggesting the ( Daily ) Herald is positioning itself as a go between for the more extreme right wing press ?

    155. Morag says:

      I thought the implication was that Stuart thought the Herald was running to a Conservative agenda on this one. Via Gardham. I get on better when he spells it out, mind you.

    156. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Absolutely excellent Sunday Herald which I read on the bus back from Perth to Glasgow. Especially enjoyed the Jennifer Erickson piece on working with Alex Salmond. Obviously the increased circulation is allowing the paper to expand and widen its coverage

    157. wee folding bike says:

      Mr Murphy is quoted as saying this on the BBC web page:

      “If I’m elected Scottish Labour leader I will invite Scotland’s new first minister and the other party leaders to meet and work together to develop a long-term plan.”

      He will invite.

      You’re not going to be in charge Mr Murphy so you might ask if you can meet the FM but you don’t run the show so you don’t invite.

    158. terry says:

      Went to watch the football with some mates in Aberdeen on Friday. My labour pal who voted o was sitting there in her tartan kilt. Her irish boyfriend from Cork told me he voted not cos “Ireland is in a mess.” When I asked him if he wanted to rejoin the UK that shut him up. When Scotland scored I shouted, “Well done north britain!” – Simply to wind them up. They are my friends though it’s challenging and I will be honest that I only see some of them cos I know we need them to change their minds. Most of them say “I’m not interested in politics” That is code speak for “I don’t give much of a damn about anyone but myself”. We have got our work cut out up here in Aberdeen but can I say from door knocking etc that a lot of folk in the oil voted Yes – particularly Aker. So it’s not all about the money. Next time, peeps…..

    159. Stevo says:

      Someone needs to follow him around with a stereo, and every time he opens his mouth they should play a clip from the Beatles… ‘I am the Eggman’ 😛

    160. Fred says:

      Now if the Eggman’s assailant now claimed that Murphy paid him to “Go to work on an egg”, the ba’ would be well & truly up on the slates! 🙂

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