Kartoon Klown Korner
Our regular weekend comedian Chris Cairns is off on a golf holiday this weekend (in fairness he’s only had four so far this year and it’s already August), but this is a sicker joke than anything he’s ever come up with.
We haven’t covered Martin Keating’s court case because we have some unanswered concerns about its transparency and communication, but it’s doing just fine without us, having passed £100,000 of its £155,000 funding target earlier today.
It’s bad enough that some random activist is having to do this and pay for it when the Scottish Government – who SHOULD have been doing it three years ago – sits with its thumb up its hole staring out of the window, but having their representatives actively attack and try to sabotage it is disgusting to a degree we can barely find words for.
We’ve had our fair share of doubts about stuff of late, but if Scottish independence achieved nothing more than putting a useless wage-stealing tosser like Pete Wishart out of a cushy Westminster job-for-life, it’d be worth doing for that alone.
Hear hear
Seems he is having the opposite effect to that which he intended – spurring folk to contribute.
my biggest concern is what comes up if you check companies house
I’m sure I’m not the only one concerned” writes Wishart.
Of course not; he comfortably speaks for half of the damn SNP MP/MSP’s who don’t want Indy for some considerable time to come.
It is becoming clearer by the day who they all are.
Clear out, or new party.
I don’t know about anyone else but I want to know if this is a union or if Scotland is being held hostage by the neighbours. Hopefully, the Martin Keatings’ case will clarify.
Pete Wishart belongs in London. He’s a Tory and I think that is where his heart is. He should have an English Westminster seat. He’s pretty useless – along with other SNP MPs – when it comes to independence.
In common with many people in the wider Independence Movement, I am very pissed-off by the lack of movement towards Independence, being shown by the Scottish Government.
They have talked a lot, but said very little, and done even less, to hasten the end of the Union.
That said, in this instance, re the Keatings case, I can just about understand their neutral stance. They are bound to stress the freedom of the judiciary, so, they will naturally be reluctant to challenge that freedom, by backing a court case.
Mind you, in this instance, they have been damned for doing nothing, just as they would have been damned had they backed the Keatings proposals.
However, while they form the party of government, the Scottish National Party is NOT the Scottish Government.
I feel the party ought to have at least made a sizeable contribution to the Keatings fighting fund, with perhaps the CEO, rather than the Le4ader, announcing that contribution.
If the blue, red and yellow Tories can be two-faced, why not the SNP? England waives the rules, so, why not also Scotland – I can imagine the howls of indignation from the Unionists when they got a bit of their own medicine.
Don’t do anything to upset London. Don’t try anything that isn’t guaranteed to succeed. And above all….no profane language if you please.
The Wishart Doctrine
As one who has contributed (and childishly excited about it, in this ridiculous world) I’d be interested in seeing your concerns, Stu. Crowd Justice site only releases funds to lawyers and there are regular email updates on progress.
I was stunned to read this today, but from what I’ve seen (and I’m following the crowdfunder closely) the rate of donation seems to have accelerated today
Why doesn’t he just stay out of it rather than make a complete fool of himself by telling indy folk what to do AGAIN which seems to be, everything but fight for independence
He must really want his erse on that speaker’s chair
I wish to God that brainless invertebrates like Wishy-Washout would just keep their hands down their pants and their mouths shut. What an utter embarrassment!!!
Let’s not ask the question in case we don’t like the answer – then we can’t keep feeding Indy supporters bullshit and kid them on that we, the SNP, have a plan to get Scotland out of this cluster-f*** called ‘Brexit Britain’.
All brought to you by the same people that tell you No.10 will simply have to grant the Scottish Govt. a S30 Order. Why? Oh, just because…
The same idiots who have no answer to the question “What if Boris allows the Bill for a S30 to come before the Commons, but the Commons exercises it’s democratic right to reject the Bill at its First Reading, what then IndyRef2?”
Tumbleweed…
‘Yes’ and the SNP – Lions led by Donkeys.
As some SNP MPs have contributed to this, i guess Mr Wishart is not watching whats going on.
Does he explain in which way it would have serious consequences? ‘To the cause of independence’… Or does he mean ‘to my career’.
Stu, if you had donated to the crowdfunder, the original one anyway, you’d receive regular updates on the case and the decisions made and why – there is plenty of transparency from Martin, and he’s doing well to keep pushing this through. We were even polled on what to do with one decision.
His Forward as One Facebook page had the original arguments published on it. We have to wait until this part of the case start before the documents are published – which is why he gave the go-ahead before the crowdfunder reached target (at personal financial risk to himself, but luckily not needed).
Never mind the panic in Westminster imagine the shock in the SNP party if some of the new parties decided to contest some of the constituency seats as well, that would really give them a wake up call or a kick up the arse. As you may gather so pissed of with the SNP!
Neale Hanvey MP ?? ??????? ???
@JNHanvey
· 8h
I just supported this case! link to crowdjustice.com via @CrowdJustice
Has he inadvertently let the cat out of the SNP bag? They’re doing nothing in case they lose.
Aye but their hearts are in the right place England ???
I find it strange that no one from the SNP (as far as I am aware) has even commented on the case.
I agree. The SNP folk like Wishart & Sturgeon are worried both that he might win which means they will be pressured to act & that he might lose which will pressure them to accept a sort of Plan B instead.
They are rather too comfortable with ‘Now is not the time’ & ‘we have too much else to do’. Of the latter that is because Sturgeon is a control freak who cannot conceive of letting others handle Indy while she runs the govt. All those now pointless champing at the bit MP’s for eg could run it instead of wasting time at WM. Holyrood has a remote voting system so MSPs can do campaigning during term time as well. But no, we can’t have indy because Nicola would find it too tiring to run EVERYTHING.
Hell mend her, or maybe the Salmond inquiry force her to resign. Let’s also hope Alex’s threatened revelations have sufficient power as well.
I think the point Mr Wishart misses is that the case is less about whether or not Holyrood has the power to hold a referendum as about the people’s right to choose whether or not to hold one.
If the case fails, as it may well, it provides a perfect platform for a 2021 election on precisely that issue. That, in my opinion, is a better point of leverage than waffling about a Section 30 – which in itself concedes the right to choose to Westminster, and very much better than making the 2021 election a direct plebiscite for independence.
At the heart of the issue is, as usual, the question of sovereignty of the people vs sovereignty of Queen in Parliament. There will likely be many not yet convinced of independence who nevertheless regard the Scottish people as having the right to choose their own course. If the case fails, that right becomes a matter of principle for an election – and one that Westminster would find very much harder to deny than just blocking a Section 30 request.
In that respect, the Keatings case is well timed. This is the first challenge to WM funded by the pockets of ordinary Scots. Of itself it stands and falls on gaps in the drafting of the Scotland Act 1988.
But the message it sends is much more important.
Every party has sitting tennants. Pete has parked his erse and he’s not keen to move.
We either can or we cannot. If we lose the case, we have what we have now and little will change that.
Win, lose, or draw, Martin Keatings will emerge out the far side of this with a lot more integrity intact and goodwill from the people than the limp and moribund SNP Government.
I don’t know if I’m clutching at straws, but listening to the Barrheadboy Podcast with Mark Hirst…
link to barrheadboy.com
If I understood correctly, there seems to be an expectation that imminent revelations are going have a profound impact on the prevailing political landscape… in a good way for once.
I’m not in the loop to know what form those revelations will take, or when, but I hope the storm breaks sooner rather than later for the good of Scotland, Scotland’s people, and Scotland’s Businesses.
The SNP really needs to spend some time meditating in a darkened room, because I seriously don’t have a handle on what they’re thinking, only that they’re acting very dumb and seem to be totally lacking in self awareness. That has to change.
@Breeks –
The grapevine is ahop right now, these rumours of an impending whatever.
Can you give us a wee clue?
😉
@Breeks –
My last effort went straight into moderation because I said ‘the g****vine is ahop with rumours of an impending whatever. Any chance of a wee clue?’
😉
A wee re-write of Watery poos tweet:
I’m sure I’m not the only SNP MP / MSP concerned at this court action at this time. It could have serious consequences for the SNP if defeated….
oh yes it most definitely will have serious consequences for Petey and his ilk if it’s defeated…i.e.
1. your plan A is fecked completely
2. So what’s your plan B?
Seems to me that Petey and co. want to live in their wee bubble not knowing where Scotland stands constitutionally.
And why? Coz it might throw a wee spanner in their S30 is the gold standard mantra – how will that translate for their 5th mandate for the 2021 HR election (sorry I’ve lost count mibbies less mibbles more).
Gob forbid it might force them into taking a new route to independence…are there any strategists in the SNP that have any influence in the SNP? Just asking for a country…
Can we now phone a friend?
Apparently he (Wishart) even claimed in September 2017 that voters were “weary of constitutional change”. Who knew?
So, he then declared that there shouldn’t be another referendum until the 2021 Scottish parliament election. Of course that assumes the SNP even wins a majority. That’s quite a gamble Wishart was making with the electorate’s vote is it not?
And that’s just for a referendum which he was happy to kick down the road for another four years.
What sort of activist you might wonder was in no rush whatsoever to agitate for constitutional change unless of course they found themselves awash with taxpayers money, unlimited expenses and a fat pension scheme?
Perhaps there’s another honorable reason but right now neither Wishart or anyone close to him has been able to offer one.
Me? I see a deadbeat musician who has found a lucrative new career in another country from leading a committee stuffed with died in the wool Tories & run of the mill Labour backbenchers who spend the majority of their time talking down Scotland.
No wonder he’s petrified of independence.
What does the ‘freedom’ of the judiciary have to do with anything? The judiciary is ‘independent’ and impartial but they still have to follow rules like the rest of us. I would be surprised if such a value-laden word appears in any documents concerning judicial ethics etc.
Alex Salmond’s administration wasn’t neutral about letting the Scottish people decide their future based on their recent expression of opinion in 2011. What is different now? The SNP govt say they want a referendum but they cannot make it happen. Someone decides to stick their neck out, instructs a top-notch legal firm, and the SNP can’t even manage a double-digit team of parliamentary cheerleaders to raise the excitement level for a historic moment in the annals of the independence movement?
And Pete Wishart? He’s like the SNP’s John Woodcock.
Toon tabbard!!
Pete Wishart the man who wanted to be speaker of the English house of commons.
How can I put this politely, Pete is, in terms of independence, such a dissappointment.
A political party that was genuinely keen to get independence ASAP, would have launched such legal action themselves, long, long ago.
“But,but,but”, splutters Pete, ” what about my pension?”
No doubt he plans to retire if he is elected for another term.
Probably got the date circled in the calendar.
Aye Pete,as the Spartans said, “IF”.
Peter Curran @moridura
I’m against it because I don’t think there are legal solutions under UK law to indyref2 and because it may not prove a good use of good people’s money. But if it goes ahead I hope I’m wrong.
I discovered Keatings’ action late but remedied it with a long conversation on Twitter. The argument he put up was clear, sensible and well informed; that he had a winning QC putting the case in the court, a great reassurance.
Then something odd happened. Just as I was about to put his comments into a cohesive narrative for readers of my website he adopted an infantile attack on a repeat questioner and threw me off. Still cannot fathom it.
I wish the action success, but if it fails there are other ways to achieve autonomy. No movement for greater democracy ever expects to get endorsed by colonial rulers to make it legal.
Chris Cartoonist is much missed, his work accompanies my Saturday morning coffee, Stuart. I hope this link to the BBC shenanigans over Salmond is acceptable left here:
BBC Black Arts: link to wp.me
Pete, that is no way to reply to the situation is it.
Thousands have left the party recently and it’s because
Of the most ill founded priorities you have put before any
Visible action toward the Independence goal.
Come here and give us a plan or a date or a hope.
We are sick to death of Tory corruption, abuse and lies.
You say a negative result from our court case could work against us
I disagree with that as it will establish Westminster has set out to own us
Not become equal partners.
You should also go in to say what your actions would be when the case is won
And try to explain why it wasn’t done before now.
You are becoming the lost touch Labour Party !
Spot on Stu, what a trougher and a independance charlatan. I am bemused and disgusted that the SNP hadn’t went to court as you say three years ago to get a ruling on this and he says this could harm independance- awful and pathetic.
Wishart lends weight to the proposal that until Indy, the National Anthem of Scotland should be “Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation.”
Since John de Menteith in 1305, our national aspirations have been sabotaged, not by foreigners, but by our own kith and kin holding positions of power/authority, and solely for their own personal gain.
@Breeks at 5.55pm: Going by the hysterical headlines I saw in the unionist papers yesterday, smearing Alex Salmond with yet more innuendo and filth despite his innocence, I got the feeling that whatever is going to happen, is going to happen pretty soon. One headline had the cheek to say he was a control-freak. Not like that lovely, easy-going Sturgeon lass, eh?
[…] Wings Over Scotland Kartoon Klown Korner Our regular weekend comedian Chris Cairns is off on a golf holiday this weekend (in […]
For sure something will break soon going by the dissing of Alex Salmond in the MSM. Briefing against him has gone into overdrive. Whatever the outcome I hope it is fairly represented and civil discourse is maintained amongst ourselves. Having said that this is where I get pelted. Many decades ago when I was courting my future wife we used to go to Runrig concerts. Pete Wishart was an important member of the band. A better musician than politician I hastened to add.
Erm, since when did the SNP decide who could and could not start a court action?
Personally I think the court action will achieve bugger all in the long run, however Martin is perfectly entitled to the action as is everyone who has donated.
It’s frankly none of the SNP’s business. But I think there is something going on in the background. Given the power struggles in some of the councils, could there be an overspill into the parliamentary parties? Or am I just being paranoid 🙂
I’m still looking for something to change my mind for next year.
Right now none of my holyrood votes are going to the SNP.
what is the time frame for Keatings court case?
Ian Brotherhood says:
15 August, 2020 at 5:58 pm
…. Any chance of a wee clue?
‘Fraid not Ian. I’m honestly not in the loop and don’t know anything juicy.
But I do find it curious that Dani Garavelli and Nicola Sturgeon seem to be besties these days. Speaks volumes I think.
A quote from Benjamin Franklin springs to mind… ”We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”
Never mind, I’m sure Pete’s Wise Wurdz will do wonders for Mr Keatings’ Great Cause.
Found some groats at the bottom of my gaberlunzie myself…….
Paul Valery stated that “Politics was the art of preventing people taking part in decisions which inevitably affect them.
How true in Wisharts case.
“The judiciary is ‘independent’ and impartial”.
Pillars of the British Establishment in Scotland are impartial?
Really? I doubt Stu Campbell and loads of others who have experience of the legal system in Scotland would agree with that.
“Whiny Wishart” and the “others” are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I noticed that Martin said “the Scottish Government had filed a motion in this case ( their THIRD) requesting you withdraw and take a neutral position”
Surely if Nicola really wanted a referendum, that wouldn’t have happened.
The gloves are coming off – Sadly it looks like we’ve got to fight the SNP party machine first.
Angus MacLeod must resign. He cannot continue.
And I have donated to Mr Keating’s case. It is none of wisharts’ business.
Silent acquiescence to England’s parliament is utterly unacceptable.
Agreed
Breaks @ 5.55pm
Thanks for posting the link – it is a very good podcast. It’s amazing how tight-lipped everyone ‘in the know’ is about whatever traumatic revelation there might be – but maybe there doesn’t need to be any revelations,,, that doesn’t seem likely, but maybe.
I think the message Mark Hirst was saying at the end of the podcast is right – we can’t rely on any career politicians to make independence happen.
Ah donatit money tae this. Pishart kin suck ma fucking disdain, the Big Ben-climbing gravy-trainer thit he is.
It’s just possible he is another John Mann, just patiently waiting for BoJaws to promote his sorry ass to the Lords.
Not much more to say about him except Speaker to Lords he is he is ambitious
‘Kininvie says:
In that respect, the Keatings case is well timed. This is the first challenge to WM funded by the pockets of ordinary Scots. Of itself it stands and falls on gaps in the drafting of the Scotland Act 1988.
But the message it sends is much more important.’
EXACTLY. Things will go ahead with or withoot the weird, floundering SNP. Thir’s a line in the film Barfly thit ah hink covers this line ay action oan indy (cos at least it IS action oan indy!) quite succinctly:
“We don’t need no Chamber of Commerce clearance to play around here.”
😉
I don’t think I’m revealing any state secrets by posting Martin Keatings last update a few days ago:
“Update on The Scottish People Vs The UK Government on Indyref2
This morning, as you all know, we filed the motion to 1. Allow the closed record to be formally received by the court. 2. To appoint the case to the procedural roll for consideration of the preliminary pleas. 3. To allow the date to be set for 3 days of hearings.
At around 9.20am I received an email advising that the Scottish Government have filed a motion in the case (this will be their third) requesting to withdraw and take a neutral position. If accepted by the court, this now means a straight fight between the UK Government and the People of Scotland with respect to section 30.
Things are very much in flux at the moment, so this is as much as I can give you. I do not know what effect this will have with respect to our motion above, but I will advise once I know more about what is going on.”
So the date is still to be set, and the Scottish Government, who was summonsed to appear, are still trying to wriggle out of it. With a judicial review it might be fairly soon – no juries or anything.
I think the fact this crowdfunder has been a lot more popular than the last shows that people want some kind of action now – some kind of move towards independence – and this seems to be the only game in town at the moment. The SNP resistance is really disappointing, they aren’t just doing nothing, they are an obstacle. Very disheartening.
Just listened to mark Hirst on barrheadboy podcast well worth a listen about how toxic the top tier in the snp have become.iv often thought that anyone criticising nicola was a Yoon makeing mischief on here.after listening to mark I’m thinking its maybe insiders in the snp giving us a warning.we should really think about getting cherrie and whitford back up the road tute sweet the shit is about to hit the fan big time.
Hi Grousebeater.
Thanks for the link. A good read.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Grouse 🙂
Grousebeater, Ronnie Anderson, BDTT: what do you think about a wee demonstration at Pacific Quay on the day this Wark smear-fest is going to be shown? With people holding placards stating AS was found innocent on all thirteen charges.
The BBC must be made to suffer just as they make others suffer.
Muscleguy
Exactly my thoughts.
Twitter has Billy Connolly and Margaret Thatcher trending at the moment, which caused a hell of a panic with a lot of people.
But nothing to worry about; he is very much alive and she remains dead…
Juts caught up…
Some great comments above.
It really feels as if some kind of a square-go is in the offing – we should prepare ourselves for some surprises as and when the combatants’ supporters are finally forced to take positions.
Hi Sarah.
On 31st March, I was due to go back to work as a member of the skeleton crew at work the next day but got a phone call from my ‘Big Boss’ saying I shouldn’t come back to work because of my COPD.
I was subsequently furloughed at the end of April, start of May.
My philosophy is that until my employer deems it safe for me to resume work, I am basically ‘semi-shielding’, ie no pubs, restaurants, gatherings and so on, shopping twice a week, until my employer deems it safe enough to go back to work.
I’d be supporting a demo at Plantation Quay ‘in spirit’.
@BDTT: I was asking more for your opinions and possible spreading of word rather than actual attendance! It would need to be a symbolic demo rather than a mass one in the current circs – I just thought that some of our Glasgow or nearby stalwarts might be in the mood to show Pacific Quay that we have noticed what they are up to.
@BDTT: meant to say sorry about your COPD – that is a real nuisance of a condition, as I know from a brother.
Sarah at 9.42.
Street protest is best as a mass gathering; risk a small group, a small turnout and it looks forlorn, ready to be dismissed by opponents.
The BBC appears determined to work the UK government’s agenda.
“If the government is for the people, and the BBC is for the people, it follows that the BBC is for the government’. Lord Reith, first director general BBC.
Fifty years hence, Pete Wishart’s slippers will be in a glass case in the People’s Palace.
Umbrellas
Ever wondered why some protesters have been seen carrying umbrellas in USA, HK etc?
They can be surprisingly effective at stopping Baton rounds and tear gas canisters.
Might be a good idea to stock up on motorcyclists body armour, crash helmet etc.
Something to bear in mind for the not too distant future under Imelda Sturgeon’s colonial rule.
@Sarah says:
15 August, 2020 at 10:02 pm
“I just thought that some of our Glasgow or nearby stalwarts might be in the mood to show Pacific Quay that we have noticed what they are up to.”
Just make sure they social distance and behave themselves. And pray there is a better organised group that the nutters who stood at the border…
OK everyone – so that’s a “No” then!! On this occasion….
Pete Wishart must have earned about one and a quarter million pounds in salary in his years as an MP. Added to which, he can expect approximately another third of a million pounds over the 4 more years of the current Westminster parliament.
Must tend to take the edge off a chap’s zeal for change.
Can’t see what there is to lose. In fact, the question really has to be asked.
@kapelmeister –
Whit?
Seriously?
FFS…
🙁
@kapelmeister –
Small wonder he’s aye got that mental grin on his coupon.
Ian
Yeah. I worked it out. MPs currently get 81 grand a year. When Pete became an MP in 2001 they got well over 50 grand p.a. with regular pay rises since, until reaching that cool £81 000 a wee while ago.
For £81 000 a year plus expenses plus kudos, who would be in a hurry to leave their place of employment?
Then there’s HoC pensions, resettlement allowance etc.
I’m glad that this court case is going ahead.
But I have to say that I do agree that if the court case is lost we will find it more difficult to progress Scottish independence
However…. as I have always said …England’s Westminster will do anything to keep control of Scotland
And I do mean anything…including violent action against the Scottish people
I’m ready and prepared and never surprised by Westminster actions
I don’t give up
I’m fighting for Scottish independence til we get it
@ ScottieDog at 7:14 pm
Ditto
Hey Terence, thanks for letting us know that as an SNP supporter you are focused and prepared for the travails that Scotland is going to face in the future. It’s dogged commitment and determination like that we need and which will see us through. 🙂
Meanwhile… Tonight in Ochil and South Perthshire SNP MP J. Nicolson’s tweeting about issues in America, Russia, Belarus, and the good work the White Helmets are doing in Syria… 🙁
This is slightly off topic.
Stu has been doing a tremendous job by corresponding with various police and legal authorities. I believe he should hold a fundraiser purely for that alone. If it goes well, he could even employ a lawyer to help out… but I think most of the money should go on stiff drinks! I would very happily donate.
Secondly, some people on this site have been mentioning legal corruption and generally getting nowhere. One thing which can be done is just to write to the Council of Europe. Not to file an official complaint. Just write to the head and ask that your letter be put on file in their Secretariat. Clearly state WHO is the source of the problem, whether it is the local bobby or the first minister, an MSP who will not respond to emails or the dastardly Boris Johnson.
They will take notice if a quantity keeps mentioning the same country, the same region, the same politician. Just be sure to be very accurate (i.e. get the country or the parliament right!).
Could someone explain why the Scottish Government were being asked by the court to be involved in the Keatings case
Asking for a legally illiterate friend
“ Stu hutch says @0905 pm “ we should really think about getting Cherry & Whiteford back up the road” Agreed ! What’s the point of having our best people fighting a losing battle at Westminster? (It’s like Scotland vEngland at Wembley with our goalkeeper and centre half on the pitch against a full England 11 together with 2 Russian linesmen or rather one and red card dross).
If the forthcoming battle is to be between Holyrood and Westminster ( Edinburgh v London ) , then we need our best performers in Holyrood eg . Cherry , White ford , Drew Henry , Angus MacNeil, Tommy Sheppard . The front bench at Holyrood needs some competition . I exempt Kate Forbes and Our FM our best performers .
We need our “ Top Team “ in Edinburgh to galvanise our YES MOVEMENT people with INDEPENDENCE in their VEINS to lead us ( not careerist politicians looking forward to their Westminster pensions ).
His contribution to independance is on par with contribution to the music industry – which is and was now’t.
Has anyone seen the previews of the Wark ‘documentary’ yet?
A wee birdie tells me the tape is ‘out there’ i.e. for the benefit of the journos who are entitled to such preferential treatment so’s they can get their stories wrote an’ that.
It’s inconceivalubbable that none of them ever dares venture in here, so…come on, youse in the loop, gie’s a wee shufty at what’s coming up, eh?
Go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on…
GO ON!
😉
“Morgatron says:
15 August, 2020 at 11:33 pm
His contribution to independance is on par with contribution to the music industry – which is and was now’t.”
I never knew Alex Salmond was a singer.
TC @ 10:48
“But I have to say that I do agree that if the court case is lost we will find it more difficult to progress Scottish independence”
We’ll only be finding out sooner rather than later whether the SNP’s supposed “Plan B”, (Go to court to establish if HR can hold a “consultative referendum”), would be required in the event No.10 refuses to bring forward a Bill to enable an Order in Council under Section 30 of the Scotland Act.
If we lose, (I’ve paid my £25 so I feel entitled to say “we”), then the SNP will have a clearer view of the way ahead and it won’t have cost them or the taxpayer a penny.
However, the S30 route is still hugely flawed in my opinion, for the simple reason it requires Westminster to pass enabling legislation and the Tories will NEVER whip their backbenchers to vote it through; the UKSC may be able to force the UK Govt. to act in a particular way in introducing a Bill, but it cannot force both Houses of Parliament to take it forward to Royal Assent.
So, we have Jam/S30 tomorrow provided No.10 for some bizarre reason acquieses, (which still doesn’t guarantee the passage of any Bill through both Houses of Parliament), and if it doesn’t agree, the SNP would go to court to establish if the Scottish Parliament is capable of holding a “consultative referendum” – which Westminster could ignore and Yoons boycott in any event, even if the UKSC said HR could indeed hold it.
If we win this case then there can no longer be any excuse for not introducing legislation at HR for IndyRef2, so for that reason alone it gets my support.
“mike cassidy says:
15 August, 2020 at 11:21 pm
Could someone explain why the Scottish Government were being asked by the court to be involved in the Keatings case
Asking for a legally illiterate friend”
is not the premise of the question where sovereignty rests?
I.e can the SG call a referendum unilaterally and not seek confirmation?
And apparently the SG don’t want to push it further.
Bit like two kids in a playground arguing about whose dad can beat the other, and your Dad going “no I can’t son” and he just fades away.
Well, to be expected from Pete Wishart.
My opinion is that it cannot harm the independence cause for reasons I’ve posted previously – other than to say; a legal case based around UK legislation and challenging a specific clause in the Scotland Act, in a UK court, cannot prevail – brought by anyone (including the Scottish Government at Holyrood) though it can be found not justiciable.
Any finding against any clause in the Scotland Act (improbable) would just see the offending article amended retroactively by UK legislation, in order to nullify it. Otherwise the Scotland Act and Wetminster’s Pariamentary Sovereignty, would simultaneously collapse and the Scottish Parliament would find itself independent.
Challenging the power which claims the sovereignty to prevent Scotland’s people (or their representatives) acting as they choose – and challenging it directly – is another matter entirely.
The burden of proof lies not for the right to Act, it lies in proving there is no right to Act – that is not for us to argue – that onus is on the Scottish Crown alone. As I’ve said, good luck with that.
I have no opinion on Martin Keatings case because I cannot find specific details of it, or the basis of its argument – other than a vague generalisation. There is nothing to bar him (or anyone) challenging anything they like though, so I won’t decry it.
@Contrary
Sorry didn’t get to reply on the previous thread – but no, I was not arguing for inaction, I was giving an opinion on why the Scottish Government, or Scotland’s representatives at Westminster, may be doing nothing – or apparently doing nothing – we have no idea what’s being politicked.
I’d favour ‘pulling the pin’ personally.
Anyway I’ve said plenty, it’s only opinion.
As Breeks and Lorna Campbell have repeatedly stated . The sovereignty of the people of Scotland issue must come to the fore . The TREATY of UNION 1707 was between to Kingdoms ONLY . The Scotland Act of 1998 drives a “ coach & horses “ through the Treaty . How on earth can an Equal Union Parliament “ devolve” a subservient Parliament to Scotland without an EXACT EQUIVALENT “ devolved “ Parliament to England ? Where is the English “ Barnet formula “ . Where is the English “ block grant “ ? Where is the English “ Gers “figures ? .
The arguement should not be over any section 30 “ permission” . The refusal of this by May and Bojo should have been the day the “ Gauntlet “ of the “ Sovereignty of the People of Scotland “ after the overwhelming EU Remain vote was recorded .
Yes the “ Sovereignty “ was tested in 2014,. Yes the result was to remain in the UK AND The EU ( that was the STATUS QUO ) . The NO campaign was heavily predicated on REMAINING in the EU )
That result is now INVALID since Jan 31st 2020 when the PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND were “ STRIPPED “ of EU citizenship .
The SNP need to stop prevaricating over our Sovereignty and BITE THE BULLET . That is why we need REAL & COMMITTED Independence politicians in the VANGUARD for our forthcoming Battle for our FREEDOM. That battle has to be between London and Edinburgh . No compromise .
To think, my ex wife invited this arsehole and his mates into my house after Run Rig played Tarlair all those years ago.
I’m glad I was in bed when they all arrived and had fuck all to do with him.
Like Donnie Munro in his songs, a grief hoor.
@ Papko at 11.43
You obviously never went to his show at the Edinburgh Fringe 2 or 3 years back. I can’t say my life was enhanced by having heard him sing, but it’s certainly something he enjoys doing.
.
Is anyone here on WINGS Over Scotland familiar with the RECALL OF MP legislation?
Maybe you can offer some advice please?
The reason I ask is Mr Speaker Cosy Erse At Westminster, Sir Pete Wishart CBE. may be hoist by his own petard, or at least that of his party when he inexorably breaks the GRA or other McWoke legal drivel being enacted at Holyrood.
At that point, it may well be the situation where Wishart is given his marching orders early, and the Recall of Dubious Ex RotRig Singers Act might be just the ticket.
By the way, Pete, I know you will be reading this as you were crowned Parliamentary Twitterer of The Year, ya self aggrandising prickk.
So I’d ask you this simple question…
What date was it that you sold us all down the river for your Westminster 30 pieces of gold?
You cannot deny it. Any SNP MP who gets so comfortable down there in London that they deludedly look at standing to be Speaker of that shiithole is definitely a backstabbing two faced self interested cockwomble.
I don’t normally swear, but Pete Wishart has been milking the Westminster gravy train like one of the worst benefit scroungers to feature on Jeremy Kyle and Dom Whatsisname shiteyvision.
The SNP have dropped two words from their vocabulary.
They are,,,
“Salmond” and “Independence”.
Never to be spoken again.
The the feline fanny, The Cat, not uncovered as being the real Pete Wishart a week or so ago???
The two of them talk the same pish, so it is quite plausible.
The way I see it once No-deal. Brexit has passed Nicola has to go as her position will be untenable. She will have subjected Scotland to a Generation of hardship almost single handedly while maintaining she was doing her best to build a perfect society. She is an ideologue and needs to be stopped in my opinion or untold damage will be done to the fabric of Society in Scotland. She has already marginalised all straight white males in the country and the rights of ordinary women with her globalist agenda to end free speech. She doesn’t even know she’s playing the game, that’s how messed up this whole situation is.
There are three reasons I think the Scottish Government do not want any involvement in the Keating’s court case:
1. The do not want to be seen spending taxpayers money on a court case. They have already spent a fair sum not so long ago.
2. They don’t think that Keating’s has got a cat’s hell in chance of achieving anything.
3. They don’t want any involvement, as the media will try to link it to the SNP. Remember, Nicola’s primary focus is defeating COVID and sorting out the economy.
@Nelldog says:
16 August, 2020 at 12:57 am
John Mason thinks the new bills are wonderful. Check his Twitter feed. Must be penance for all his previous fuck ups.
Although he has given a dangerous hint. All the proposed legislation is on “hold” due to COVID. Does that mean the SNP are expecting a majority next year, which will allow them to bring in the Hate bill and GRA and whatnot?
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Most interesting piece by Gsreth Wardell covering the BBC’s dark arts and how they are scheduling a number of programmes by arch unionists Kirsty Wark and Danni Garavelli just as the Alex Salmond enquiry begins.
Well worth a read.
The twatter comments by wishy washy shouldn’t come as any surprise to independence supporters , if people cast their minds back to the 6th April 2020 when worldwide celebrations should have been energising all independence supporters from the Scottish diaspora all over the world to CELEBRATE the 700th ANNIVERSARY OF THE DECLARATION OF ARBROATH a declaration that is reputed to have formed at least parts of other countries constitutions
Celebrations which would have taken at least a year to organise and prepare for Scotland to reinforce its PRIDE in the declaration and publicly illustrate the impact the declaration has had in other countries
Yet what did we have in Scotland the country of its birth ,a Scottish government and Scottish parliament too frightened or ashamed to associate themselves with the meaning of the declaration ,too frightened or ashamed what our overseers would think , too frightened or ashamed of a celebration that may FORCE citizens to make our government DO SOMETHING towards independence
Admittedly there were some tepid displays planned but even those unfortunately did NOT take place due to the dreaded covid ,they MAY take place next year or they may not , but it DOES NOT excuse the APATHY shown towards this important date
SNP MP’s should only serve 1 term then stand down.
Stop them becoming too cozy.
Keep them focused on the job.
-Iain Brotherhood at 11.37-
What’s the bloody point? They could show that Sturgeon had made it all up herself on the back of an envelope, and that all the accusers actually holograms creates out of Bute House while being plied with gold by MI5 and singing Rule Britannia dressed in a Union Jack, and people would still say “Oor Nicola’s doing a great job” and “they’ve got a secret plan, let’s wheesht for Indy”. Let’s not kid ourselves about the political discernment of our fellow Scots- look how long it took us to wake up to Labour.
To be fair to Mr Wishart, the decision itself being of little consequence, the issue of greatest concern might be when, rather than if, it is defeated.
ie If plan A is to bring forward the Holyrood election and hold indyref2 by the end of the year then, assuming the Scottish courts act in a timely manner, any delay in judgement from the supreme court (including covid related) could provide legitimate grounds to postpone the referendum (beyond December) pending clarification of its legal status.
Simplest method of dealing with such a scenario would be to anticipate it with a plan B in the election manifesto.
Twathster @ 3.02
The decision to disregard promotion of the 700th anniversary of the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath was absolutely incredible.
This declaration was a seminal piece of writing for and on behalf of the Scottish people some seven centuries before. It was also in part inspiration for American independence and the significance of the Declaration of Arbroath from an old country all these years ago cannot b3 understated.
So why did we airbrush the 1320 celebration out of existence.
Like independence, COVID got in the road, and of course good devolved Westminster assemblies, don’t celebrate, indeed, even recognise, historical shibboleths like this.
Must read my Magna Carta now.
So in 2021, it looks like we’ll be voting for a party which cannot be stopped if we want Independence, but which must be stopped if we don’t want a Scottish Government that’s a toxic broth of Self-ID, misogyny, hate-think, and wall to wall vindictive rotten conspiracy.
Why do I feel I’m being blackmailed, and that every ardent supporter of Scottish Independence is having their aspirations cynically exploited?
If that’s to be the choice on the ballot, Scotland needs an urgent shortcut to Independence which doesn’t leave us at the mercy of the sitting SNP and the septic mess it is busily creating.
Frankly, this reeks of large scale manipulation and external interference. The purity and joy of voting for Scottish Independence is being deliberately sullied by the unwanted and quite unnecessary association with these dark and controversial Entryist agendas, and there is a deeply sinister willingness to see powerful influential voices like Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray and Rev Stu all silenced, discredited, ostracised, and put in jail if it can be done.
Rather begs the question what kind of Independence movement Nicola Sturgeon has been running these past 5 years. Are we seriously going to call this strategic philosophy “gradualism”? Our Indy campaign is being sabotaged and wrecked before our eyes and there’s nothing gradual about it.
Breeks,
I would never normally advocate any kind of falsehood or pretence, but I can see one thing that might turn the tables before May 2021 – something that we can do and not relying on other people doing stuff – and that is,,, just SAY you will NOT vote for the SNP, and be adamant. (Ref. Supreme Court action on the meaning of ‘normally’)
So, it’s manipulation right back at them. If everyone SAYS they will not be voting SNP now, it might have an affect.
A long shot, but what you do in the voting booth is between you and the voting booth, and you’d have to sort out your own feelings about how you’d be viewed etc. I know there will be tons of people that wouldn’t contemplate even saying it, so, well. Meh. A fairly shit idea.
I have my doubts about how much popular opinion affects the SNP these days – they haven’t changed the rules back for Joanna Cherry yet – but the prospect of shedding MSPs might make them take drastic action.
He’s got a point though. If this case is lost then the English Government can deny us a referendum for as long as it likes. We will only be able to gain Independence through affirmative action which could lead to Civil War.
Contrary – I think you are right.
I cannot support the GRA genderwoowoo transwomen are women nonsense. Nor the hate speech bill. Nor angus MacLeod remaining in office. Nor the nine conspirators against Alex Salmond remaining anonymous or even in the party. Nor the Joanna Cherry stitch up. And, most importantly, the untrammelled power of the woke.
If heads have not rolled before next May I will vote for another party (for the first time ever). ISP are assured of my second vote.
It now appears to achieve independence we must first destroy the SNP hierarchy.
Astonished, I know – I can’t see what other influence we can have. I keep my voting intentions private, as a matter of principle, so nothing I SAY now will be seen as a ‘change’ – it needs to be people that are normally vocal advocates of the SNP to openly declare a change – and opinion polls (which doesn’t seem likely!) to change.
Iain mhor, earlier on – thanks, I read your reply, to the previous thread, there, and thought I’d picked your meaning up wrong, hence the question – but my response would still be to the SNP, why would not even trying be considered a strategy!?
For other folk that ask about more info on the case or don’t believe things are clear, Martin Keatings has a separate Twitter account for the people’s action (etc) that holds most stuff: link to mobile.twitter.com
The original case was to test if the court would hear the case: effectively, was the court willing to rule on it – we won that and so this second part, the actual hearing, is now going ahead. The submissions still need to be published by the court so we don’t know any content of this case yet. The first case had its documents published. The Scottish government has been ‘invited’ to put a case forward, because it could affect their powers – I have no idea why people think that’s a waste of time or money – what? Unlike spending millions of taxpayer money to try and get Alex Salmond put in jail?! Which of those has the most ‘public interest’? Very strange value judgements,,,
It would be the Scottish government and Holyrood (not just the SNP) that needs to legislate for a referendum – so,,, why wouldn’t they be involved in something that could affect their ability to do so?
The SNP used to be the political representatives of the movement to restore Scottish Scottish sovereignty. That was their purpose. It was their reason for existence.
Since Sturgeon took over, they are now just another British political party seeking re-election to impose their domestic policies on the population.
Same spin, same sense of entitlement. Same arrogance:
Same sense of disillusionment.
As the Proclaimers sang: “What do you do, when democracy fails you?”
One thing: I won’t vote for Holyrood colonial administrators.
Andy,
If this case is lost – it means we know that the strategy of keeping asking for a s.30 is a lost cause – this case would have to be tested in court at some point anyway (or we could have total capitulation of scotgov, that actually seems more likely at the moment) – so why not know the answer now? Why keep it Unknown? What’s the point in that, never knowing if we are wasting our time or not?
What losing the case will mean is – the SNP will need to actually have to have an alternative strategy (ref. Plan B) and openly declare it – they, obviously, don’t want to have to do that.
It just moves things forward a bit,,, we need clarity on this because this relates to the SNPs only plan.
Again Andy at 7.44am
There are lots of alternative political ways to get independence, I don’t think leaping straight to the conclusion that military action as the only other alternative for this one option that the SNP decided on is reasonable. The SNP decided on one tack, now they have to look at a few others.
O/T
Former Celtic striker Moussa Dembele single handedly kicks English Club Manchester City out of the European Champions League last night.
That put a wee spring in the step, hearing that another English outfit got knocked out of a football tournament, and to think it was a striker who played for a Scottish club that done it, made it feel that wee bit special.
Andy @ 7:44
” If this case is lost then the English Government can deny us a referendum for as long as it likes.”
They can do that now irrespective of any court case…
1) The UK Government, through sheer bloody mindedness, refuses to play ball regarding a Section 30 Order.
2) Using some legal means not yet identified, the Scottish Government takes the UK Government all the way to the UK Supreme Court to force the issue.
3) By some form of divine intervention, the UKSC finds in favour of the Scottish Government and instructs the UK Government to bring forward a Bill.
4) The UK Government complies with the UKSC and brings forward to the UK Parliament “A Bill to Enable the Granting of an Order in Council Under Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998, to Facilitate a Referendum on Independence for Scotland.”
5) Having brought the Bill before the House of Commons, the UK Government allows a free vote amongst its Backbenchers and the Bill is defeated at its First Reading.
6) The UK Government then blames SNP MPs for failing to have persuaded the House as to the merits of the Bill, and the SNP have no legal or parliamentary recourse whatsoever – their S30 ‘fox’ having been well and truly shot.
Therefore I hope you, and others, will appreciate how perfectly flawed this entire S30 route is for, as I have outlined above, “the English Government can (already) deny us a referendum” through the democratic process at Westminster, and there’s nothing the FM, Blackford or even Peter Wishy-Washout can do about it… The Mother of all Parliaments will have spoken!
Only recourse? HR election becomes a plebiscite for Indy.
I have only two pieces of advice for Pete Wishart.
One.
On independence day I will be too busy celebrating.
You though, should run.
Two.
Up until independence day. Fuck up.
Andy @ 07:44
There will likely never be a civil war – Scotland has been pacified.
Paramilitary activism is futile. The UK know this, which is why they don’t give a fuck about Scotland – proving the philosophy that a Nation which gives up it’s arms becomes Slave.
Scotland is Slave to England. Any Jocks working for the English will one day account for themselves. I know people well into their Seventies who live in complete denial, confused about why they are so angry all the time.
It’s because they turned their backs on their homes. It really is that simple – they chose to turn their backs on their friends and families and have decided not to face the awful truth.
Bruce was ambitious, which is why he risked everything. I am not like Bruce and think that Scotland is the sum of it’s people, therefore, I don’t think Scotland is worth a single drop of blood.
It’s legal or democratic. We’re in for a looooooong wait.
Holy Moses. Who is this fanny here?
Jamie Blackett
link to archive.is
When a post here gives you a sense of unease like someone suggesting on Independence day Pete Wishart should run or someone hinting at civil war or someone gaslighting ie making me feel ashamed of myself and my beliefs and of Scotland THEN I suspect .
For over sixty years, in good years and bad I have been steadfast in my belief in independence and nothing will alter that. As the jiggerypokery of the British Nationalist Unionists gets more intense I KNOW independence is near.
Independence is normal and is indeed liberating!
‘Breeks says:
Why do I feel I’m being blackmailed, and that every ardent supporter of Scottish Independence is having their aspirations cynically exploited?’
Absolutely agree 100%. “Let’s lead these numpties down the ‘we’re out for independence at some point soon’ road a bit further, just to see how much longer we can get their votes for nothing tangible whatsoever. Bloody idiots the lot of them.”
The taste in my mouth gets worse by the day. Wouldn’t even be so bad if the SNP party fools involved in this idiocy were intelligent people. They’re not. Genuinely not a brain amongst them, a totally lobotomised sniffy middle-class crew. They’re too stupid to even realise how stupid they are, they’re so drunk on their own selfie-serving self-importance and self-righteousness. A shower of shite from top to bottom. And more and more SNP party members, and Scots in general, are noticing it.
FYI. I get pestered by the BBC for their TV propaganda tax.
I just noticed in their scare you for not having a license letter
That they proclaim court cases in England and Wales have
A 99% prosecution success rate in issuing £1,000 fines.
An Asterix at the foot says the Scottish Procurator decides on prosecution.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the prosecutor deemed at a minimum they will not
Prosecute pensioners over 75 or ideally anyone for not stumping up the
English propaganda tax.
Propaganda, bias and repeats of 60 year old TV shows, not to mention Englands greatest
Sporting moments abound in Scotland. No need for it and no payment necessary!
I agree with you about Wishart and the case as I’ve said previously, but maybe Wishart supports it more than we think since he must know he sets the cat amongst the pigeons when he speaks out. Rather as I feel in still intending to vote SNP despite everything, almost a thumbing your nose, I’ll do it to spite you attitude.
@Contrary
‘my response would still be to the SNP, why would not even trying be considered a strategy!?’
The only scenario I can see for SNP not seeming to try in the present conditions is if they knew Boris wanted a way out of leaving the EU. Westminster knowing the catastrophic damage it would cause, while not being able to lose face and beg to stay because it would tear his party asunder with the ERG faction and brexiters in general may want a scapegoat and he doesn’t want it to be them.
If SNP knew Boris really did want to stay in EU and were doing everything to needle them to cause some national break up during which Boris could then come out and say for the sake of the union he was eventually making some concessions and would appeal to EU for a trading agreement after all he could then put all the blame on SNP. That would take Sturgeon’s argument for independence away, since 2016 she’s based it on not being take out, or at least having trading terms.
So that’s the one situation I believe where holding her nerve down to the wire, not doing anything until he could no longer use SNP as a scapegoat could/ might be considered a strategy. Of course it doesn’t explain a lot else in the party, but it could explain their inaction now, but that depends on what action they take after January and towards the next election.
I remember reading during Greece’s crisis a few years ago an article about Varoufakis and his game theory and the writer went on to say Sturgeon was far better at it in practice and knew more than he did. I hope that’s correct.
Jamie Blackett could be our new best friend!
He sounds like a right warmer (hard A, of course) and then there’s wee pussy cat Georgie who probably hasn’t figured out yet that he was well and truly stitched up on Channel 4s Big Brother, and will go down – not as the man who went to Capitol Hill to give them a lecture (a trap in itself btw, just by conceding to go there) – but as the edited version of a slimy, creepy little bastard pretending to be a cat, when, in fact, he is nothing more than the usual run of the mill (slimey, creepy) narcissist politician in search of oxygen.
If his concerns about the consequences of losing are genuine and there’s nothing he or his party can do to stop it happening other than by making it fail due to lack of funds then he and/or the SNP need to get off their arses and join in.
Jamie Blackett
I have just been speaking to a man called Goat, who might make a YouTube documentary showing me travelling around with George, highlighting misgovernment and unhappiness in Sturgeon’s Scotland
It’s good enough for Pakistan and India, but never for Scotland eh!
What a twat this man ROSS is.
link to twitter.com
On the other hand
Jamie Blackett
George’s plan is to persuade the Unionist parties not to stand against the strongest pro-Union candidate in the first-past-the-post ballots and to make best use of the d’Hondt AV system we have in Scotland by running pro-Union Alliance candidates from across the political spectrum in the ballot for the list seats
Effigy @ 9.55.
It’s high time that a campaign to resist payment of the TV tax was resumed in Scotland.
Forget the procurator fiscal service doing anything. The COPFS is rotten and corrupt in Scotland. The Alex Salmond trial, the secret alligators , yes alligators, the close working with a political police squad, the charges against Indy journalists such as Murray, Hirst and others tell you that.
In fact when Prince Charles and his entourage fled to Scotland with COVID bringing with him, was there even a cheep about breaking lockdown. Or what of the charges brought against Independence March organisers. No the Crown Office Procurator Fiscal Service and senior echelons of the police are rotten to the core. I would certainly expect no justice, no fairness from Scotland’s lprosecution Service.
But in this there is a message for our young. We need to bring our children up to realise that they live in a rotten system. A system where the rule of law is corrupt. Where the rule of law is used as a weapon against democratic expression. Where it is used to destroy people for political purpose. Where the BBC is nothing but a propaganda outlet.
Making over 75’s pay a propaganda tax ( even if they do not watch the BBC ) potentially dragging them through the courts, should be a catalyst for resistance. If the law and democracy does not work there has to be other ways., because ultimately when there is no rule of law, there is no law, only the law of the jungle.
Scotland I fear is now in the thick undergrowth where the establishment wildcats and restored wolves run free, killing at will.
But yes Effigy, there should be more, many more like you not paying the TV tax.
A celebration of the Declaration of Arbroath would be a great way for a newly independent Scotland to reintroduce itself on the international stage. It might be a year or two late but what’s a couple of years in 700.
It would also way to bring together the countries who were influenced by it. Throw in the Enlightenment just to piss off woko-haram and their new blasphemy agenda and you have the makings of quite a party. In a couple of decades there could be St. Andrews Day celebrations around the world to mark the contributions that Scots have made.
Suck on that Boris.
Hi Polly @ 9.58am
That’s a very convoluted excuse with many suppositions – and could, of course, be the case. Applying Occam’s razor & all that – based on what the SNP has actually been doing – how about – yes, the leadership want independence with all their heart, but only if someone else does it for them and it’s entirely painless. Not quite the driving force I’d hoped for, but, hey, that’s politicians for you. Always willing to disappoint.
Nicola Sturgeon is a VERY good politician, no doubt about that. I think of politicians as akin to actors, creating their own stage, and their own script (mostly). What I also think is that no politician is trustworthy. That’s why I was surprised at it being revealed that Alex Salmond has real integrity, after getting some of his dirty laundry washed in public. I still wouldn’t believe everything he told me, in his role as politician, though!
The Herald is reporting that Dross snubbed a VJ Day event in his constituency to run the line at Kilmarnock v St. Johnstone yesterday.
Anybody seen any good mems highlighting Westminster betrayal of the union
@Andy says:
16 August, 2020 at 7:44 am
“We will only be able to gain Independence through affirmative action which could lead to Civil War.”
Are you out of your fucking mind? Civil war?
What do you want, another Northern Ireland? It would wreck the economy. This isn’t the fucking Middle East or some Central American dictator state.
People who are suggesting at best civil disobedience or at worst outright violence are making the huge assumption that the people of Scotland would rise as one.
Start with a civil disobedience campaign and you will lose control very, very quickly. Look at how easily other protests turn violent. BLM marches descended into violence despite the best efforts of the organisers. Extinction Rebellion lost control as well, as supporters started targetting public transport, and another group in a protest destroyed a public park simply by turning up in huge numbers.
Businesses start getting wrecked, and as most are spread across the UK or are global corporations would simply pull out of Scotland. Who would want to invest in an unstable environment? Then you would insurance rates rocketing or even being refused.
Unemployment starts to rise and people become angry at the Scottish Government, which leads to more protests. More fuel for the fire.
Using civil disobedience is a highly dangerous idea which will be very hard if not impossible to control. Talk of civil war is lunacy.
Stuart McKay @ 11.01am
Naw, better wait for the 800th anniversary, in 2120. By then, the oil will most-likely have ran out, and the 15th reincarnation of Saint Boris as Tory leader in Westminster will have decided that Scotland is no longer worth hanging onto, since England has plundered everything useful from its’ northern colony. So, he will agree to the SNP’s request for a Section 30 order.
Finally free, our descendants can then celebrate in style.
Just pledge some more money on Pete’s behalf.
Just short of £115,000 from 4,000 people.
£40,000 required for target from I hope 1,000 more
People willing to support Scotland’s future.
link to crowdjustice.com
The Record says that Dross would get £445 for running the line at his SPL match yesterday. That was obviously a more attractive proposition than being at the VJ Day service at Forres.
Famous15 9.48am
Is the “someone” you talk of Nicola Sturgeon???
It’s time to tear down your “I love Nicola” posters.
We all know you are one of the few Sturgeonistas left on Wings.
You are defending the indefensible.
Sturgeon is a Unionist Patsy.
Sturgeon is a Dud.
Sturgeon should resign with immediate effect.
Polly
Did you ever find Capella???
You were pining for her the other day.
Capella is an absolute Sturgeon fanatic and won’t have a bad word said against her.
So why pine after such a fanatic Polly???
Capella disappeared and you magically appeared.
Have you tried looking in the mirror for Capella,,, I’m sure you will find her looking right back at you.
“Have you tried looking in the mirror for Capella,,, I’m sure you will find her looking right back at you.”
Really really tired repeating myself. Pre-mod list.
Sturgeon Trolls are a dying breed on Wings, but you still get one or two posting how much they still love their Nicola,,,
and what do you do with such creatures???
Do you get angry with them,,,or just pity the poor pathetic souls???
When I see the BBC cancel a Kipling poem (Mandalay) from VJ Day Commemorations, it gives me great hope that the Left will, in fact, eat itself.
All because a whining woke opera singer complained about cultural superiority and regards himself as a proud human being.
Not proud enough to fucking resign in silence though, was he.
Professor John Robertson months ago gave his opinion on what the SNP leadership should be doing by making use of all resources available to them to harass badger and generally piss off this Tory government and certainly don’t cooperate in any area.
Bawjaws government their ministers and MPs should be facing problems on not just a daily basis but a hourly basis a Gorilla approach setting little fires everywhere making Scotland administration unpredictable and possibly ungovernable ,
The Tory government shouldn’t be left to pursue at their leisure what powers they should decide to remove from Holyrood without any interference from our political representatives
This Tory government and their ministers should be fearful of what the SNP government are going to do next every stunt including a daily disruption of the English Parliament using their archaic medieval approach to democracy.
In other words get off yer collective arses and make mischief trouble ,our MPs are not there to make friends and have a daily Jolly , the English MPs don’t want our MPs in their parliament , so wind the Duckers up get the veins sticking out of their necks and their big red faces bursting with anger.
To change the subject if I may can anyone explain why the Justice Minister Humza Yousaf is issuing statements on the efficacy of the test and trace process in place to track COVID outbreak clusters.
Tracking and tracing is all about the inter relationship of contacts and viral transmission. It is a medical and epidemiological matter. How many were contacted, how many were not. So why is the justice minister issuing statements and I quote –
Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf said “ the government was working hard to ensure the efficiency of the Test and Protect system”
He told the BBC: “When that data is available, and available in a form that can be verified, then of course we would release that data. This government has released data throughout this pandemic to be as transparent as possible.”
Questioned on why schools have reopened without information on the proportion of contacts traced being known, he said: “We would not take any gamble or any risk when it comes to young people’s education. In fact, what we’ve said from day one is that our children’s education is a priority.”
He added: “There’s a number of harms we have to balance, a range of data we have to look at. And having looked at that data, we’re confident that schools can reopen.”
Something does not gel here in these statements. Yousaf has the justice brief. He is the man responsible for things like the Hate Crime Bill widely criticised as being a censorship bill. Why therefore is he speaking on medical matters. What is afoot, what is lurking?
Very strange. Maybe someone can enlighten.
Someone needs to wind their neck in.
@ Beaker says @ 11:27 am
I entirely agree. Well said. We’d defeat our own cause big time since we’d be infiltrated in no time and blamed for any bad action.
Robert Graham @ 11:53
More of the same then – what a great idea – they will just give up the ghost any day now, wont they….
Dumpling.
All SNP MPs should be recalled to Holyrood immediately, never again to sit in an English Parliament.
The good citizens of England will do the rest for us.
Their cries of ‘get those annoying fucking jocks to fuckery’ will be heard all over their green and pleasant England – to hard to ignore.
Time to set the heather alight.
I was hearing that many in the education system expect the whole system to be closed down again in october
Nicola Sturgeon’s only ambition is to destroy the patriarchal society in a few short years which is thousands of years in the making across all continents and religions. What could go wrong ?
Anyone else feel that Scotland is being used as a test case for this?
She has no ambition to deliver independence and never has. I’m still trying to figure out who her masters are.
The minute things get tough after Brexit, she will be off. Her brain dead followers will morn the loss of the their great leader and Scotland’s cause will have been stalled sufficiently for another decade due to the incompetents remaining within the party, incapable of moving beyond the impasse. More than ever we need a viable alternative and quickly.
willie @ 11:57
Humza is the best person to speak on all matters of COVID response management.
Same too for Nicola Sturgeon or any of her inner circle.
Why is that you may ask? – why are politicians the best people to speak on or about all things COVID?
It’s because they have been running the show from the start.
Same as in every other Country.
Walter
When exactly did these symptoms of a pathological hatred of the only person and Political Party that have any remote chance of delivering a vote on independence appear ?, was it a sudden change when you were recruited by Scotland in Union or the security services that attempt to disrupt this and other Indy supporting sites ,
Repetitive posting doesn’t make your comments more interesting , ok everyone gets it you really don’t have to keep repeating it over, and over, and over, and over, are you getting it yet ? .
“When exactly did these symptoms of a pathological hatred of the only person and Political Party that have any remote chance of delivering a vote on independence appear ?, was it a sudden change when you were recruited by Scotland in Union or the security services that attempt to disrupt this and other Indy supporting sites”
How many times? STOP ACCUSING OTHER PEOPLE OF BEING PLANTS/SPIES/MI5/WHATEVER.
Last warning.
Shug @12:03
Guessing you heard that from a union rep or a teacher/believer.
You might be right. I hope you’re wrong.
It wasn’t until the German soldier was marching into Holland when he started asking himself ‘why are we invading the land of the friendly dutch?’
The lie is now established. Enough people believe that COVID is a seriously deadly virus and there is little hope in them changing their mind.
@ ahundredthidiot says:
16 August, 2020 at 11:53 am
When I see the BBC cancel a Kipling poem (Mandalay) from VJ Day Commemorations, it gives me great hope that the Left will, in fact, eat itself.
Did they? Good lord don’t they know Kipling was very good at giving voice to the voiceless, the ordinary squaddie, the lower class and the ‘natives’ at times. He also wrote ‘Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind’ And TRAs know about using words in that way.
His full sentence in the 1923 speech was ‘I am, by calling, a dealer in words; and words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind. Not only do words infect, ergotise, narcotise, and paralyse, but they enter into and colour the minutest cells of the brain, very much as madder mixed with a stag’s food at the Zoo colours the growth of the animal’s antlers.’
Anyone interested can read the full address here
link to telelib.com
Polly says:
we’d be infiltrated in no time
————–
wings already has been. look at the number of anti snp comments here?
“wings already has been. look at the number of anti snp comments here?”
Okay, you’ve been warned enough times. Off to pre-mod.
Hey Walt
Seems you can’t even form a good insult. Capella did criticise SNP, we all read it. You need to try harder than that. I would say ‘do better than that’ but I doubt you can do better seeing your previous outputs. They’re also all the same since you lack invention too.
I’d pine for Capella and her integrity in supporting SNP and continuing to fight for it, despite having openly stated her major reservations, I’d pine for anyone with that integrity any day over your nasty, childish and ultimately ineffective insults. You show yourself as a pitiful creature unable to form a coherent argument against the SNP or their supporters and resorting to needling people with your tiny little barbs. And they are tiny.
@ Cat
A group of us doing civil disobedience would be infiltrated in a whole other way, and much more dangerous as you well know. So stop with rubbish analogies. You can do better than that.
I see Walter Jones dislikes my post supporting independence.
He OUTS himself!
Pussy Cat
This isn’t an SNP site – read the top of the web page if you still don’t get it.
schrodingers cat @ 12:30
What you call “anti snp comments”, others would call valid and timely comments by snp members/voters. An internal critic is not necessarily an enemy of a movement.
@Contrary
Ta for the link. I’ve had a good trawl around but I’m still not very clear.
If, the case is about the right for Scotlands people to choose, then that’s fair enough. Yet I keep seeing S30 and ‘referendum’ all over the shop. That doesn’t make sense in context.
Is it establishing the right to choose to act, or the right to ask for a sop – who knows.
If it’s simply establishing Scotland’s right to ‘Act’ then neither S30’s, referendums (or the Scotland Act for that matter) enter into things – they don’t even need referenced in any submission.
So perhaps, it is an attempt to have the People of Scotland’s ‘Claim of Right’ acted into UK legislation (consequently its constitution) that would be interesting, though it’s been tried half-heartedly before.
Currently we know the concept is recognised, as a *cough convention – but it’s not UK legislation. Because doing so would nullify so much existing legislation and alter the UK constitution and shatter its sovereignty.
If the crux of the submission demands the UK Government (Crown in Parliamemt) defend its right to refuse the people of Scotland the choice – now that is a subtly different matter entirely and far more interesting. That falls into one example of ‘Attacking the Crown’ – requiring the Crown defend itself and would be worth admission.
If the people of Scotland are Sovereign, then proclaration of intent is lawful. It invites a declaration by the Crown to defend. Which, could only mirror Henry’s declaration of 1542 claiming sovereignty over Scotland and her peoples and…good luck with that.
Now, if Martin had a majority of the Scots electorate behind him – he wouldn’t be petitioning for anything – he could proclaim anything. I don’t think he has those numbers though – I’m wracking my brain to think if anyone else might have…
However I’m wearisomly labouring a point I’m sure.
Fun though isn’t it – who will buy a ticket for the mystery box? What’s inside, what could you win? It could be a teasmade, a dining table and matching chairs, a cuddly toy, a holiday and £1000 cash, a boat, a submission begging for a bone, or our top prize – the collapse of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty – roll up, roll up.
@polly
you cannot rule out civil disobedience. fact
holding a referendum in scotland without a s30 could and probably would be ruled illegal by wm. They could do the same for AUOB marches
it would be deemed civil disobedience by the brit state to do either in such a case
@ mike Cassidy
Jamie Blacklett
‘I have just been speaking to a man called Goat, who might make a YouTube documentary showing me travelling around with George, ’
Ha ha. When I read it I thought it was satire like, making fun of the gorgeous one and the whole alliance. Thanks for the laugh.
When is the penny going to drop with the Sturgeonistas???
A MUST read for all who care for democracy, national sovereignty and freedom.
link to goodreads.com
Next time you use a Huawei phone, TikTok or Zoom remember you too are a useful idiot.
The Covid-19 scare has been a godsend to ComCap China.
And to those household name American globalist capitalists.
Small countries beware! Ireland is already in thrall.
(Ireland, a country the SNP leadership so much admires.)
One thing about Nicola Sturgeon is that she is divisive.
Margaret Thatcher had the very same qualities.
Everyone keeps asking what we can do to get the SNP to listen and not be blackmailed into voting for them despite their lack of willingness for indy.
Well there is something which would hit them hard.
Before the Indyref 2014 the SNP had ca. 25,000 members. After that dreadful day thousands decided to fight back and not give up.
Folk joined the SNP. Not in dribs an’ drabs but in huge numbers, the membership rocketed to ca. 125,000. Most of them at the end of September 2014. Me too.
That means, in September probably somewhere near to 80,000 – 90,000 memberships are up for renewel.
That’s big, necessary money for the SNP.
If thousands didn’t renew their membership in a show of force, it would send a huge signal to them that folk are not just voting fodder without a voice. It wouldn’t effect your vote in HR21, you can still vote SNP 1 + indy list parties 2. You can still rejoin at a later time, no problem.
But the message would be clear, we are not happy with your GRA, hate crime and wokist antics, so if you want us to support you get INDEPENDENCE back on the table and less of the mumbo-jumbo stuff.
@Jimmy Jo
I’m pretty sure that the SNP would settle for 57% ‘devisiveness’ at the next Holyrood election.
I don’t think the Tories ever got that high a poll rate, but then again they were never perceived as a social democracy party.
A ‘List Party’ second vote is becoming imperative
Heavens man. If you didn’t see this back then i’m worried what you’s also missed.
link to twitter.com
Oneliner 1.18
How many of those voting SNP next year will be Unionists?
I would say about a third are Unionists, they just love the SNP freebees and the equally love the Union with England.
@Graf Midgehunter,
Totally agree.
Ayrshire Rob 1.39
That video should be spread far and wide.
I remember MacPherson Campaigning for Better Together.
The Unionist bastard is another pillar of the BBC Scotland dyed in the wool Unionists, who lie at all costs.
He should be re interviewed and asked for his present day opinions Regarding over 75s having to pay for their TV licence.
Bastard.
Dunno about embdy else but I’m very much looking forward to the Wark ‘documentary’. If it’s as we expect it to be then it’s yet more evidence of BTUKOK chicanery. The more proof we have the better – not so many Scots button up the back as the BBC appears to believe.
A. Hundrethidiot.
Most interesting that you think that Humza is best placed to speak on COVID 19. Same too for Nicola Sturgeon or any of her inner circle.
I don’t think that I can agree with that. Why does the minister responsible for a brief have a Minister for another brief speak about matters not in his brief. Would you ask the Environment minister to give a statement on Education matters? Seems strange to me.
And what is it you next say when you declare that same goes for the First Minister and or any one of her inner circle. Are you saying that the First Minister has an inner circle who can usurp ministers at a stroke. Seems that you are – and could that be Peter Murrell. Seems that you are and in that there lies a major problem.
Dominic Cummings seems to be a Minister without portfolio. He and Peter Murrell have much in common.
Yes one hundredthidiot you give a most interesting perception of the SNP and the government of the First Minister. No wonder so many independence supporters have so much concern about what is going on under the leadership of Mrs Murrell or is it Mr Murrell or who?
.
Oh Bliss.
Stu.,
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.
Any chance the old Cat can be taken to the vet? The big injection? It would be the kindest thing to do.
My head hurts reading his/her/its inane pi5h. My index finger has repetitive strain injury having to scroll past the 120 comments Cat makes on every thread. Then there is the secondary brain-ache of having to read the posts of each poor misguided soul that tries to reason with Cat.
So your head must really feel like it fit to burst some days.
Am just hanging on by my fingertips that we get back to having a decent leader at the helm of the SNP and stand a chance of the new leader gaining IndyRef2.
It would be really nice to debate policies that are higher up in the ranking order than the GRA McWoke agenda that has infected the SG legislative programme by those selfish twatts that are putting their minority needs above the wishes of the majority.
Au revoir merde chat.
Ton félin a parle de pisse et d’ecriture me fair mal aux oreilles et aux yeux.
Long time since I commented on WGD but did so last night. The comment went into moderation and is still there 14 hours later.
What did I say?
‘Hear hear’.
That was it.
And folk think the moderation here is harsh?!
😉 🙂
Interesting whats going on in Argentina right now.
link to bloomberg.com
Argentina has had one of the strictest and longest running lockdowns in the world (at 146 days), but deaths and cases are still climbing. When will people start asking what are these lockdowns actually achieving? Other than devastating teh economy and causing unnecessary deaths.
link to news.sky.com
Al-Stuart. 2.22
The chap they call ” The Cat” certainly tried to dominate the proceedings didn’t he.
He was mis-guided and ill-informed.
@ Polly – thx for the mentions in dispatches – I still read the headline article and scroll through the comments although there are very few worth reading now IMO.
I got tired of the personal attacks from nasty trolls.
I’m tired of the constant anti SNP, anti “wee jimmy krankie” whining.
But the last straw for me was homophobic slurs. Al Stuart referring to NS as the “Dreghorn Dyke” was unacceptable.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
It was gleefully taken up by Dogbiscuit and Lister on the following thread.
I’m not gay but I object to attacks on people who are. If slurs against lesbians are OK then so is attacking other people who should be protected from this sort of thing. Are we to accept “The Provan Paki”? What about “the Paisley Poof”? etc etc. I’m sure we could all think of some nasty ways to denigrate people.
If the level of debate rises sufficiently above ground zero then I will comment again. Until then, I’ll join the league of former WoS commentariat.
“I’m not gay but I object to attacks on people who are. If slurs against lesbians are OK then so is attacking other people who should be protected from this sort of thing. Are we to accept “The Provan Paki”? What about “the Paisley Poof”? etc etc. I’m sure we could all think of some nasty ways to denigrate people.”
All of those comments are unacceptable and everyone making such slurs has been banned or put on pre-mod. But I only know it’s happening if PEOPLE TELL ME ABOUT IT.
had to happen
you will be missed capella
Capella
What about the women and girls who might be attacked in women’s toilets or women’s changing rooms by men dressed up as women?
And all because of GRA Laws being pushed through Parliament by Nicola Sturgeon.
These men would not be breaking the law for being in “Women only spaces”, they would have the full backing of the Scottish judicial system behind them.
Thanks to Nicola Sturgeon.
Capella @ 2.38
Good to hear that you’re still around and that you just don’t suffer fools :-)I
I hope you realise that those of us who stay don’t condone or more importantly dismiss such comments.
And that if we “contacted” the Rev over every single one, he’d do nothing else but moderate the site ( and his other activities are far more valuable than that 🙂 ) which for those who disrupt is also a win..
Personally,selfishly and conveniently I’ve put too much time and treasure into Wings and I value the lack of moderation too much to leave it to the tools and fools who can’t hold a decent conversation yet feel they must say something.
Anyhoo
I hope someday soon you make along to a Wings night out,that’s where we have some fun over these people,fun of the sort most of us are too classy to post here being mindful of the Revs rules and why we are actually here.. It’s very cathartic…
Stay well Capella xxx
Graf Midgehunter says
I liked your post. The SNP are taking the electorate for granted. I will not vote for their flagship domestic policies period. And no amount of your not Scottish, your not Indy etc will change that. I am very surprised that they can’t see that.
Bipod 14:30
So called ‘lockdown’, self-isolation or quarantining simply postpones the day when the population will, as is normal, possibly catch the disease; symptoms varying according to general state of health. A degree of herd or community immunity is necessary even for vaccines to work. That is the case with all virons.
There is effectively no such thing as ‘safe space’ where pathogens of the type are concerned.
Having taken a false road no government on the planet is likely to admit bad judgment. At the political core of this ‘crisis’ was the deficiencies of national public health services and the cherry picking privatization of many of them. Be that as it may, all trust in ‘government’ having gone, tails they lose, heads they lose. keeping restrictions is their only ‘let out’, for the moment.
Until SARS-CoV-2 has been sequenced all testing, tracking and clinical prevention are illusory.
Modern politics seem to be about illusions and politicians delusions of authority.
@ Jimmy Jo – I think I’ve said enough about the GRA previously. But to summarise – this Bill was passed in 2004 under a Labour Government in Westminster and adopted into the Scottish Parliament by a Labour/Lib Dem administration. Nothing to do with NS.
The GRA reforms have been withdrawn in Holyrood meantime. However, these changes have been adopted all over the world by “liberal” administrations. In the UK they are promoted in all sectors of the public services. The Labour, Lib Dem and Green parties are, if anything, even more committed to these reforms than the SNP.
I have also criticised the HCB. I submitted my objections to the Justice Committee in July. I hope everyone else here did the same.
There are other issues where the SNP are open to criticism. The scandal of the persecution of raptors on grouse moors, the blight of AirBNB, the shambles of the ferry contracts etc.
But this site is about independence. Ask yourself – how does my contribution advance the cause of independence? How does hounding anyone who is an SNP member or who considers everyone, including Nicola Sturgeon, innocent until proven guilty, helping to win over NO voters?
@ Liz g – thx for the comment and got the message 🙂
It may be that having a full time moderator would help. I realise that Stu can’t spend all his time reading every comment.
Capella @ 3.39
🙂 …moderator! Tis a thought but mibbi the Rev wouldn’t want to draw down the cheap he is subject to on someone else.
It would twinge my conscience a bit if I caused someone that kind of trouble.
Who knows… 🙂
* Crap* not cheep…. Was being polite too I really ment shit
A number of subversives from The People’s Friend Tendency who left this site still preach their gospel btl on other well known sites. If you’re interested.
Thank goodness this is not Capella’s blog. She has a brain the size of a planet don’t you know? I prefer to stay at ground zero.
Capella
Enjoy the air up there.
Someone said something that hurt your feelings, so what, try not to fly too close to the sun now, wont you…..you could even take the GRA with you – no one down here wants it.
I can handle posh, but a’ve nae time for snobs.
With her appearance on tomorrow night’s Kristy Wark hatchet ob on Alex Salmond, I think Nicola is finally overresaching. The Covid popularity has gone to her head.
The problem is that this circle of identity politics obsessed people are very cut off from ordinary folk. They do not fully understand that on the Salmond case, most people will not buy into the notion that the female “victim” MUST always be believed, even when a huge amount of evidence points in the opposite direction.
By cooperating with Wark and Garavelli, Sturgeon is trying ahead of the parliamentary inquiry to condition public opinion to accept that she was behind the moves against Alex (wich will shortly be impossible to hide any longer), and by aligning herself with narratives of Alex’ guilt she will seek to survive that revelation.
I think the miscalculation is that Scottish people have a sense of justice and belief in juries. Most people will feel the jury heard all the evidence and were in the best position to make that call; and will resent the continuing attacks from behind the protection of anonymity when, unlike in court, they are not able to be properly challenged on their fake stories.
This moment has been some time coming but it is now upon us. How the cat, capella, dr. jim etc react to the certain knowledge Nicola tried to destroy Alex – they have been in desperate denial – is key.
Perhaps they will then realise she is behind the attacks on Joanna Cherry too.
Craig Murry @ 5.23
To be honest Craig if I’d been on that Jury I’d be beating a path to the Judges door,and consulting a lawyer!
How dare the state broadcaster cast doubt and aspersions at the Jurys decisions.
Do they not have the protection of the Court?
Is that what we can expect if we take up jury duty in a high profile case.
As I understood it we are all ment to be proud and feel some sense of satisfaction to have served in our civic duty and reached our honest opinion.
Imagine having been on that Jury and tomorrow night being humiliated over your decision for the whole of your Country’s entertainment.
While jury members are not identified publicly everyone and anyone who matters to them will know they served in that case,and along comes the State broadcaster and a fair few from the Government to point out how wrong you were!
I hope someone from the jury feels they can speak up,because that’s is something that really can happen to any one of us!
@Capella
I always found your posts interesting. Good to know you’re still here in “spirit” if not in “body”.
How the cat, capella, dr. jim etc react to the certain knowledge Nicola tried to destroy Alex – they have been in desperate denial – is key.
Not desperate denial Craig. Simply insist that people are innocent until proven guilty.
I took the same attitude towards Alex Salmond. Innocent until proven guilty. I know I could be wrong. But I have to see the evidence. Gossip and hearsay is not evidence.
I wonder what possible motive you think Nicola Sturgeon, first minister and unchallenged party leader with a top popularity rating, could possible have for bringing this sorry mess down on herself.
OTOH iI can think of other dark actors who would love to kill two birds with one stone.
C’mon guys I have disagreed with capella on numerous occasions but it has always been respectful both ways , and I usually disagree with most of what SC says, I don’t like his PPB’S on behalf of NS and his snide comments but SOMETIMES he posts a kernel of sense , what is unacceptable is personal derogatory comments , believe you me this place has never been a beacon of personal respectability even the sage Robert Peffers was not known for his diplomacy which suited some but not all
I have stated several times I am NOT a member of ANY political party or politician no matter who they are , I am a Scottish voter NO ONE owns my vote, if others WANT to be members of a group good for them but they must accept that ANY group will NOT win an election based on their membership, it requires the broader electorate to win, I am one of that electorate and I DO WANT to vote for the SNP but their focus and insistence on those reviled policies is going to make it extremely difficult to do so
I have begged and pleaded on here and on other sites for the membership to take back control of THEIR party to no avail , what members CANNOT expect is for people who are extremely disallusioned with the leader and party NOT to have an opinion and argue for change
@ schrodingers cat – thx SC. Hope you aren’t too moderated. I would miss your witty rejoinders, acrobatic calculations and thread diversions. 🙂
@ Stuart MacKay – thx – I’ll keep on reading, so do keep on commenting. 🙂
Iain mhor @ 12.53pm
Iain, you are getting yourself into a right muddle there, and I think I can see why – this isn’t an all-encompassing general case on the people’s right to choose anything – it is very specifically about can the DEVOLVED parliament legislate on something as the LAW NOW STANDS.
I’ve put capitals there because, the devolved parliament is ruled by the Scotland Act – it is this act that determines the scope of the devolved parliament’s authority to do anything, that Act is the guideline that tells us the limitation of what they are allowed to legislate on.
So, the question being asked of the court – the judicial review – is if the Scotland Act as it now stands (which means that if Westminster were to quickly change it, as they are wont to do, the judicial review would still rule on the older version – it makes it less likely it will be sneakily changed, anyway) – allows the devolved (Scottish) parliament to legislate on a matter that isn’t very clear in the Act. (Both the Scottish an uk government’s claim they can’t – hence all the bandying about of ‘legal’ referendums – but neither actually know that. It’s political at the moment, nothing to do with lawfulness)
The Scottish Parliament cannot legislate on matters reserved to Westminster, and the Scotland Act actually takes the trouble to list many of these, including constutional matters e.g. Independence.
What the Scotland Act says is that the Scottish government CAN legislate to hold any referendum, so the people of Scotland do have a right to chose and be asked any question.
Scotland itself, or the people can hold any poll it likes. It is the LEGISLATION that is restricted, in the devolved parliament. But the parliament is not restricted on legislation of a referendum, just on reserved matters. So you can ask the people any question,,, but not some questions? That doesn’t make sense.
So, the main part of the argument for the Scottish Parliament being allowed to legislate for an independence referendum is that – in and of itself, merely asking the question does not change the constitution in any way – so the Scotland Act allows it. The U.K. Government claims otherwise.
This is a really really narrow case, it is asking for clarification on a couple of very specific clauses, not any of the other stuff. The answer may lead to other questions. But, it is really the Scottish government, the SNP, that have forced the question to be asked, by being adamant that there is only one way they are willing to do it (by asking for a s.30) – while no one actually knows if they do or don’t need one. The s.30 is just a temporary permission document that Westminster confers on the devolved parliament to legislate on a reserved matter. Do we need it? That’s what the court will decide.
If the SNP said to Westminster ‘stuff you, we are having a referendum anyway’ then the uk government might have brought the case forward themselves. The SNP could also say ‘stuff you’ to that too, and brought all the other stuff into play, and a few more ‘stuff yous’ later, gone to international law, and everyones right to self-determination etc etc.
Because we don’t even have one ‘stuff you’ from the SNP,,, we have to do it ourselves.
I’ll try and find the original arguments, I thought it was a good read, but I quite like reading that sort of stuff and I can’t remember the best place to find it now, so might have to search.
So, it’s a really narrow case, asking a question to the judiciary on a very specific matter, that has nothing to do our rights or any other laws. The outcome might mean you question the laws and think it impinges on your human rights or another law – but this judicial review will not touch on any of that.
Small steps,,,
@ Jimmy Jo at 1:46 pm
I think you’re correct percentage at least 33.3% maybe as high as 40%
“This moment has been some time coming but it is now upon us. How the cat, capella, dr. jim etc react to the certain knowledge Nicola tried to destroy Alex – they have been in desperate denial – is key.”
Exactly Craig.
This is where Scottish exceptionalism meets reality.
It also undermines one of the key tenets of Independence being that “we will always get the Govts we vote for ,,, and if we don’t like them we can vote them out”
Well we have the Govt the Scottish people voted for and that is the SNP (party of Scots), and they are extraordinarily popular with a wide appeal, precisely for doing nothing but concentrating on competence and moving not an inch towards independence.
Those who got them there the foot slogging idealist that banged the doors and spread the word, they are to be sacrificed or ditched in the style of Ernst Röhm.
We will soon see who dares to tell our FM who is in charge.
@ Cat
What I say is that lots of things must be tried but having lots of ordinary people on the streets in protest in tumultuous times is asking for trouble unless it is extremely disciplined, well organised and observant of all in their midst (like AUOB marches) since it is far too open to being deliberately disrupted. Any form of riot or violence will finish our hopes and give authorities excuse to crack down. I also worry that Westminster is already preparing for trouble post brexit. You talk of these things far too often without outlining the strict terms you mean which in my opinion is dangerous. Yes lots of things might end up being civil disobedience if they outlaw them, but so far they haven’t done so. Any kind of mass protest or civil disobedience should only be a last resort, very well focused and arranged and something first encouraged or led by our parliamentary representatives. Also adding ‘fact’ at the end of a sentence doesn’t make it so.
@ Capella
Yes I can understand why you got tired of a certain person/people, you do seem to have a stalker or two. It’s quite nasty and seems personal. I agree some posts with nothing but childish insults are resprehensible but also believe they’re self defeating. If people don’t at least make a coherent rationale for any criticism they’re not worth reading. I enjoyed reading your posts and hope you post again.
All I can type is that if peeps see contributors here as “trolls”, targeting other contributors, message Rev Stu and copy/paste the pertinent post(s) and provide him with a link.
He is pretty lenient but will act if he deems it necessary.
link to wingsoverscotland.com