Indyref finances at a glance
As we were poking around with this, we thought it’d be useful to have all the basic donations and spending information about the referendum in one place. It’s normally scattered around different places and hard to access easily, and it’s quite interesting.
TOTAL DONATIONS
(includes official campaigns and other registered participants)
Yes side: £2,812,080
No side: £4,327,677
Source: Electoral Commission
So the No side had far more money available to it. 54% more, to be exact.
TOTAL SPENDING
Yes side: £3,183,414*
No side: £3,546,208
These figures are comprised of two parts each: spending by organisations who spent over £250,000 (which for the purposes of this article we’ll call “High”) and those who spent under £250,000 (which we’ll call “Low”).
Yes High: £2,719,367
No High: £2,511,275
Yes Low: £464,047*
No Low: £1,034,933
Sources: Electoral Commission [High] and [Low]
* For maximum accuracy we’ve made one adjustment to the Commission’s figures, because they inexplicably still exclude this site’s own spending return, which totalled £64,642 of qualifying expenditure. That sum is included in the Yes figures above.
So all that tells us that the (notional) balance sheets for the two campaigns were:
PROFIT/LOSS ACCOUNT
Yes side: £371,334 LOSS
No side: £781,469 PROFIT
In other words, the Yes side spent more than it received in reportable donations, while the No campaign took in over three-quarters of a million pounds more than it spent in declarable expenses.
We don’t have the information needed to fully explain those numbers. Who underwrote the Yes side’s loss? We don’t know. (It may well, for example, have been covered by lots of sub-£500 donations, which don’t have to be declared.) Where did all that extra cash on the No side go? We don’t know.
Some of it will have been accounted for in staffing costs – Blair McDougall and Rob Shorthouse are both rumoured to have been on six-figure salaries, about which more detail is expected in a book to be published next week. (We’ve been promised a review copy and expect it shortly.) More may have been used bussing up teams of young Labour volunteers from England to knock people’s doors and tell them lies about organ transplants.
At the end of the day, though, that stuff’s the Electoral Commission’s business, not ours. What we’ve recorded for posterity here is the fact that despite Blair McDougall’s pre-referendum lies about the No camp being the financial underdog, and Alan Cochrane’s post-referendum lies to the same effect, the Unionist side both had more money and spent more. If anyone tries to dispute that in future, send them here.
Just for clarity, where is Wings on that list? ( or is it WFS2014?).
Who is Mr Angus MacDonald (campaigner for No)?
I never believed for one moment that the yes campaign would be able to out spend the better together campaign.
We were always going to up against it with big business and Tory millionaires making sure their campaign was well funded.
However it would certainly be interesting to see what happened to the £781,469 better together didn’t spend.
Boy, am I looking forward to reading the Bitter Together book. I’ve set aside a day and good bottle of single malt. 🙂
“Cumbra broadband rual and cummunity projects Ltd” – 66K
eh?
“Just for clarity, where is Wings on that list? ( or is it WFS2014?).”
Pro tip: read the words as well as the pictures.
The Orange Order: a charity? Supporting No?
Surely not!
Would be good to quantify how much the BBC spent on the No campaign.. flying in Naughtie, Sarah Smith, the bright young things from Oxbridge to do their ‘training’ at Pacific Quay etc. etc…
It is very weird why MacDougal in particular lied so hard about their funding. Maybe the book will explain. Vote NOb orders got an incredible all day long news blast from BBC news and Gavin Estler in particular but that won’t be on their books. Must have been worth hundreds of thousands in free BBC advertising alone. What a shyste.
Let us not forget the tsunami of Better Together propaganda poured over us daily by The BBC and MSM – how many 10’s of Millions was that worth?
More excellent work, Stu. My admiration is boundless.
I am surprised and disappointed to see the Greens only spent £13,734 and the SSP £12,728. It appears that Independence didn’t mean that much to either group. Appearances can often be deceptive of course. But over such a long and vital campaign, to me it doesn’t seem very much.
That wfs2014 could mean wastemonster f****d scotland in 2014.
Individuals, campaigning organisations, parties taking sides and spending money – fair enough.
It is a warped picture in that the huge resources poured into the campaign for one side by the media is not accountable! Suppose that’s just the way things are.
However, if I were a member of one of those unions, I’d be furious that my union actually spent members’ money promoting one side. I was unaware of the part they played and am truly disgusted.
Of course doesn’t include the massive No campaign donation, given ‘free’, from the MSM and the BBC, which must have run into many, many millions.
Hi Stuart,
Thank you for another forensic analysis of the facts. Something so often missing in the mainstream media.
The details seem to throw up a lot of interesting questions and worthy of a post mortem perhaps?
For example: Cumbria Broadband Rural and Community Projects Ltd.
A quick look at Companies House official records for this company shows this company to have NO assets just 4 weeks before it donated £65,921 to the NO campaign. The previous year on it’s balance sheet the assets were a whopping £332.
Worse, for year ending 31/8/14, just before it lent £65,921 to the NO campaign this company had liabilities of (£14,607).
It appears to be a operated by a Roderick James Nuggent Stewart.
Looking back over the history of this company it is incredibly small compared to the very large sized donation.
Is it just me or does this not ring alarm bells?
There lacks basic transparency in funding for the NO campaign. This Cumbria Broadband Rural and Community Projects Ltd., neatly avoids any openness as to exactly where this money comes from. It certainly isn’t from Cumbria Broadband Rural and Community Projects Ltd., as that entity is technically insolvent. Only kept legally afloat by the support of “external investors”.
My question is this: How can NO campaign donations be allowed to syphon through technically insolvent companies with NO ASSETS with those funds coming from goodness knows where? It is highly probable that this is quite legitimate, but it lacks TRANSPARENCY as far as electoral law is concerned.
Not at all happy at the NO campaign funding. Are there any mainstream journalists out there with investigative prowess looking for clarity and possibly a newsworthy article?
If so, they could do a lot worse than begin with the table of NO donors listed above from Stuart.
I suspect that the No campaign figures will not include the valuable and unstinting support from the BBC and the rest of the BritNat media.
Doubts greens or SSP have much money to spend. Probably most of their funds they spent.
They will tell that lie until the end of time. And yet, now and again, they will chortle out the truth in some odd wee interview …and then return to the lie afterwards.
The only thing we can take from this, is that we now know what levels they will stoop too. They get to play this trick only once. The lies are exposed now, and in some cases, utterly useless (such as remaining a member of the EU only through the UK).
Next time round, we need to have the counter-argument (the truth is other words) ready, and we need to scream it from the rafters. Easily said when none of the mainstream media are in your corner …but until that time comes …we may need to plan something in preparation.
I always thought that was a major weakness in the ‘Yes’ campaign. Sure, we had the ability to tell people to go to a specific place and thus find the facts there and then. I know we had the Wee Blue Book and a good few websites such as Wings to give that information, but I honestly believe that we needed something else. A website where a person could go and get the answer instantly, rather than trying to rake and trawl through links and articles to get it.
As an example of how this website would look; the main screen is basically the ‘Contents’ page of the Wee Blue Book. You click on a heading (Defence, Economy, Oil) and thus be taken straight to it. As they read away, they can click on the links within the article to see all the valid sources (all very much like the Wee Blue Book).
I believe that was a big miss in the campaign. Most of us know how to use a PC and access websites, but there are many who aren’t PC-literate. Many will also be put off by seeing a screen that has too many links and displaying the information they are after straightaway.
So in some ways, do we need a website that when you first enter it …is basically the Wee Blue Book? Would that help when directing people to finding the facts fast?
Gus1940 beat me to it.
The free scaremongering contribution from the entire UK mainstream media on behalf of Better Together must have been worth mega millions.
The figures above only tell part of the story. Many individuals must have spent hundreds of pounds supporting their cause over the best part of three years.
In my own case, I reckon between £2,000 – £3,000 on gazebo purchase, hire of venues, A-boards, poster printing, leaflet printing, branded apparel, give-away badges, pens and wristbands, petrol and miscellaneous donations. Similar sums will never have been recorded, so that my guess is that total expenditure may well have been a multiple of the official figures.
Plus the No side got the kind of sanguine press that money can’t buy (or, more accurately, was already in place as a standing asset prior to the start of the campaign).
Hi JLT.
A web site like this?
http://theweebluebook.com/
A wee bit of good news relating to the above topic (sort of)
Tony Abbot PM in Australia just been ousted by collegues.
The man is an Arse..
It’s not just the spend that the NO side had the advantage from, they had the state broadcaster, uk MSM, uk civil service and big business. We see the quid pro quo with Darling getting his peerage, there will be others who will shortly be able to stick their noses in the trough.
What YES had on their side was people and passion, this will outlive and ultimately succeed in delivering our goal!
Andy Burnham in the shadow cabinet. Every time I see his photo I can almost hear him saying, ‘I’ll do anything for a canny bag of Tudor.’
@ Al-Stuart
‘Roderick James Nugent Stewart’ – Looks like that’s Penrith and the Border Tory / Rory Stewart MP OBE according to Wikepedia.
Roderick James Nugent Stewart aka Rory Stewart MP.
Alan Cochrane is a delusional fantasist
…I wonder what value could be placed on the BBC and MSM contribution to the NO campaign.
…the briefings by the Scottish office will not appear on the accounts.
With reference to Mr. McLeod’s perfectly reasonable question, and your slightly snide response (has it been a long day?), where is Wings expenditure listed? I appreciate that you are not WFS2014 as they are indicated as supporters of the No Campaign. So where are you? I have scrutinised your graphic several times looking for a possible reference, regardless of how oblique, and found none.
Of course, the value of the support given to ‘Better Together’ by the MSM, the Civil Service, foreign leaders, big business and celebrities, is incalculable. All given gladly so as to subvert British democracy and maintain an increasingly socially polarised ‘status quo’.
I’d have laughed an appendage off if we had won, as there would have been a lot of unhappy slave-masters anguishing over what they had just lost. GIRFU BTUKOK
Hope you were watching ordinary folk of England, as they are coming after you now.
Corbyns Cabinet
So the new shadow defence secretary voted for Trident renewal.
How does that work / Oh wait Multi Lateral-ism ??
Starting to smell very Blairite !
@James Gillies
Read all the words (slowly) Doh!
The next time someone says that SNP can no longer call Labour “Red Tories” refer them to the chinless wonder who was on Radio Scotland GMS at 8.30 am this morning.
The Labour Scottish Parliament candidate for Morningside / Southern Edinburgh with his expensive private schooling, Stewarts Melville fees £10,548 per annum and handed his rich father’s business firms after a stint working for the disgraced MP Nigel Griffiths.
Edinburgh Evening News 20 January 2014
https://archive.is/hbMDP
But Labour don’t want you to know this.
@James Gillies
Check the asterisk section under last graphic.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
A web site like this?
Exactly like that LOL
I never knew that existed! I always believed that the Wee Blue Book could only be sought from key websites …not as a website itself.
But yes …like that!
That too me, was what was truly missing from the Referendum. I always thought the ‘official’ Yes campaign missed the target completely by not having something like that in what you have just shown in a link.
Should Referendum 2 take place within the next couple of years, then this is exactly what we want.
Ah well …one problem solved then. Will note the link myself and update my Favorites!
Cheers Brian LOL
Cumbria broadband and rural projects is connected to rory Stewart the tory mp for penrith. They were responsible for a few publicity stunts before the referendum such as an ugly pile of union jack painted stones in Gretna next to a caravan site, meant to symbolise blah blah. They had to apply for planning permission retrospectively.
I don’t know the nature of the connection between rory and the company.
On the upside, almost everyone in Scotland now knows the ‘Better Together’ campaign was corrupt and full of lies from start to finish.
O/T
The BBC, bless their little cotton socks, are running an online poll of ‘the most decisive battle fought in Britain’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
I can’t imagine how it might have happened 🙂 but Bannockburn is currently in first place… However, I don’t expect this to last, as the terms and conditions state:
The BBC reserves the right to disqualify entries or suspend voting if it has reasonable grounds to suspect that fraudulent voting has occurred or if it considers there has been any attempt to rig the voting. The BBC has the right to substitute an alternative selection method at its absolute discretion.
I won’t make the obvious comment…
Another Union Dividend
Can you remember his name, I think I’ve had a couple of debates with him in the street. Was he off no substance, vacuous, shackled to dogma, under the misapprehension of right-mindedness and entitlement? Did he remind you of Fraser Nelson? 🙂
Well I couldn’t contain my delight at the anti Scottish bigot Abbot being toppled. I got the news frae an Aussie friend via the phone and she couldn’t contain her own delight at the deposition of a man she regards as a misogynist.
I call it the curse of the Referendum as one after one Cameron’s Oxford pals bite the dust. Of course not being Bwitish Abbot cant get a peerage like Danny Alexander. I hope Abbot chokes on his XXXX.
Has anyone wondered if Yes were playing for a re-match?
@gordoz
Aye it took less than a day for the Corbyn face to slip. Brit Nat to his core.
It’s not often I say it, but Kevin McKenna in The National today, is really doing his job very well indeed. Perhaps Corbyn’s election win has inspired him. Excellent, Kevin.
@Iain More – saw the Ozzy PM news
Just reward can’t stop laughin’
Should have kept his nose out!
What I meant by “playing for a re-match”, is that Yes may have adopted a strategy that was thought to cause least damage to the Yes cause, should the vote be for No.
Thanks for the link Kininvie, I’ve just voted and the results as they stand at the moment for the top three places are:
Bannockburn 28%
Battle of Britain 23%
Hastings 21%
Of course here is just one of no doubt numerous caveats to this interim result … they do not identify the number of people who have voted … COWARDS! 😀
@ James Gillies
Wings spent £64,642.
This is the info you want:
“For maximum accuracy we’ve made one adjustment to the Commission’s figures, because they inexplicably still exclude this site’s own [i.e. Wings Over Scotland] spending return, which totalled £64,642 of qualifying expenditure. That sum is included in the Yes figures above.”
Er..where are the combined salaries of the entire BBC “NEWS” AND CURRENT AFFAIRS DEPARTMENTS.
Oh, and the “award winning” Treasury staff..
?
What value should be placed on Mr Browns free air time,out numbered representations on the like of Newsnight, or other broadcasters contributions (like on the night of the Mr Salmond/Mr Darling debate),contributions from UK treasury civil service,broken vows etc? Pretty valueable if converted to cash terms,I would think.
Sort of off/on topic here.
I was just wondering if we may well get a second referendum within the next couple of years. I only raise this cause I believe the S.N.P. manefesto will include a second referendum by 2021 in it.
I know I’m the village idiot around these parts but there are a few *ahem* events happening in the next couple of years that will, I believe, negate a second referendum occurring:
1) Holyrood elections 2016
2) Council elections 2017
3) Cameron’s E.U. vote 2016/2017
4) Westminster G.E. 2021.
This only leaves 2018 and 2019 as realistic dates to hold a second referendum. Of course I could be wrong here.
I’ll just get my jaiket and hat and close the door behind me on my way oot. 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJmRQ6LbZA
CameronB Brodie says: at 2.10
Daniel Guy Johnson who was portrayed as “an Edinburgh businessman” on TV during Referendum campaign.
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/paul-godzik-holyrood-bid-killed-by-businessman-1-3274840
You can check out his directorships.
Have to agree there manandboy. I was pleasantly surprised by the substance and tone.
Many have said he has questionable credentials and tends to blow hot and cold but he was on form today. (no links or quotes as i’ve left my copy in Dobbies where, i’m sure, it will have been well read)
“where is Wings expenditure listed? I appreciate that you are not WFS2014 as they are indicated as supporters of the No Campaign. So where are you? I have scrutinised your graphic several times looking for a possible reference”
I refer you to the answer I gave him. Jesus, it’s nine paragraphs.
O/T
If I may, a shameless plug for Yes Pentlands special social evening tomorrow night at 7pm.
Come and have a chat, a laugh and much more with like-minded people and watch something special.
Everybody welcome.
https://twitter.com/YESPentlands/status/641355425611288576
It’s all positive.
Thanks, Rev 🙂
So all it took was splitting a quid each to convince the Scottish electorate to remain in the Union?
Cheap bums.
O flowers of union, when will we see your likes again… KMN
http://www.votenoborders.co.uk/music
Gavin Estler has a lot on his conscience.
In the Wee Blue Book website, Jim Sillars is described as the ‘Founder of Scottish Labour Party’.
I’m sure Jim Sillars would never describe himself as such in SNP company, unless he actually enjoys abuse.
Small mistakes often make a big impression.
Where are the Weirs on this list? According to the Telegraph, “Yes Scotland [was] almost entirely bankrolled by lottery winners” (headline 14th September 2014).
Another Union Dividend
That’s the one. So this stuffed shirt is the new face of ‘socialism’ in Scotland. I pressed him on some key issues regarding ethics and democracy and you’ll be glad to know Mr. Johnson has utmost confidence in UKOK’s ‘broad shoulders’ and in the ‘pulling and sharing’ of Scottish resources. You’ll be glad to know he also thinks the BBC are a paragon of virtue.
I think he might be relying on his ‘middle-class’ background inferring an air of authority to the unwashed masses. Perfect for those of a liberal or blue-rinse persuasion. Bet he’s a Fabain. 🙂
manandboy says@3.34
In the Wee Blue Book website, Jim Sillars is described as the ‘Founder of Scottish Labour Party’.
Stu will put you right Manaboy he was.
@Lesley Anne
I’ve got a quiet fiver on 2019. 😉
manandboy says:
14 September, 2015 at 2:20 pm
It’s not often I say it, but Kevin McKenna in The National today, is really doing his job very well indeed. Perhaps Corbyn’s election win has inspired him. Excellent, Kevin.
It’s fine getting a hold of a copy of the National – if you can. So many shops seem either to not sell it, or only have a handful of copies, which are snapped up quickly. All the other newspapers seem to be produced in surplus, with a return system in place. Very rarely do you see any Nationals returned, but I think the publishers could double their sales, easily, if they started producing more. Or is there a problem with distribution? All I know is, if you want to purchase a National, you have to go early. By lunch time, you can forget it.
manandboy says: 3.34
There was a Scottish Labour Party founded in disgust at Labour’s underhand tactics in lead up to 1979 referendum.
Alex Neil was also prominent founder.
A pity they didn’t keep the rights to the name not that that would bother the Electoral Commision.
Blanket BBC 24 cover for as long as this dude felt like it but probably all part of the BBC service of impartiality
http://www.gavinesler.com/
but did they pay for all these Slovenia says vote NO messages? Probably. When do lawyers do it for free.
http://www.votenoborders.co.uk/professor_a_tomkins
Future Tory First Minister in waiting.
manandboy says:
I remember it well. Almost brought some hope, for a short while!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Labour_Party_(1976)
“The Scottish Labour Party (SLP) was formed on January 18, 1976, as a breakaway from the UK Labour Party, by members disaffected with the then Labour Government’s failure to secure a devolved Scottish Assembly, as well as with its social and economic agenda. The formation of the SLP was led by Jim Sillars, then MP for South Ayrshire, John Robertson, then MP for Paisley and Alex Neil, the UK Labour Party’s senior Scottish researcher.
The split came just before the resignation of Harold Wilson as prime minister and party leader and the election of James Callaghan as his successor.
By 1979 the Scottish Labour Party had lost its seats in the House of Commons, and in 1981 it was formally disbanded.”
NEVER TO BE RE-INSTATED!
The organisation currently using the SLP name is of course a complete fraud.
I forgot to add 2020 to my post but I think you may be right Macart. Unless of course someone KNOWS different that is. 😀
It may be worth looking into why an English Tory MP had to channel his donation to Better Together via one of his companies instead of declaring his personal interest.
I might just ask him.
Totally o/t, but do you think the evil cybernats have been at it again? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
I pressed him on some key issues regarding ethics and democracy and you’ll be glad to know Mr. Johnson has utmost confidence in UKOK’s ‘broad shoulders’ and in the ‘pulling and sharing’ of Scottish resources.
‘Pooling and sharing.’ I remember that one.
There’s no end to the euphemisms unionists invent when it comes to ruling small nations and stealing its resources.
@Lesley Anne
Well thinking along these lines…
2019 should be post EU ref and just prior to the 2020 GE. If Labour haven’t pulled up their socks by that point, the possibility of five more years under a Conservative govt. with the stewardship of either Gideon or Bojo should focus a few minds.
Also by that point the current devo package should have gone through the house like a dose of the skitters, along with four years of austerity budgets and folks will have a chance to see Westminster’s gift for what it is.
Could be wrong on all of the above, but seems reasonable.
Here’s a wee something from Chris Law for his fellow Dundonians and all Scots everywhere else. 😉
http://chrislaw.scot/campaigns/dundee-to-amsterdam/
Another right wing UKOK leader Australia’s Tony Abbott bites the dust
“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect … are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”
Lungi
In a Perthshire town recently and tried to buy a National in the local Co-op without luck. The carousel was full of newspapers except the National so I asked one of the staff who directed me to another section miles away where the National was buried underneath weekly journals etc.
The Co-op. I wonder if this is a ploy to stop people reading the only pro-Indy daily?
@peekay
Worrying it was at 37% through the night. 🙁
Both the English and Scots BBC web site no longer show the article.
PS:
According to all I see and hear on the news this Corbynite stuff is going to weaken the labour party.
Personally I think its a load of kraptonite!
Damn it, forget my last post. My original post was wrong … DOH! 😀
1) Holyrood elections 2016
2) Council elections 2017
3) Cameron’s E.U. vote 2016/2017
4) Westminster G.E. 2020 (corrected 😉 )
I think you are right Macart. 4 years should be enough time for Labour to rally round their new leader, unlikely in my view based on what some of their *ahem* big hitters are currently saying. 🙂
I love the idea that Broon the Loon is NOW complaining that Cameron has not delivered what he (Broon) promised the Scottish electorate. From what everyone seems to be saying the latest Scotland Bill garbage currently going through the House of Commons/Lord’s is not worth the paper it is written on. When you add that to all the ongoing *cough* austerity cuts a.k.a. “attack the poor, disabled, homeless, elderly, low paid etc” then I think a referendum mark II will come definitively sooner rather than later.
Of course it doesn’t help Cameron and co. when the likes of Fluffy sticks his head up above the parapet and speaks this sort of s***e!
https://archive.is/EVRAg
5) Holyrood elections
Just reading the Sunday Herald and it was a good referendum anniversary edition. Aside from an excellent editorial there was an interesting article based on Davidsons view of money / vote / organisation etc
Davidson is quoted as Labour wanting Tory money for the referendum and then bragging it would do the work on the ground.
Davidson expresses here suprise when she found Labour had no organisation on the ground – someting that everyone on the YES side noticed but the media did not
Oddly she claims that Better Together were canvassing 80,000 houses a week and had a clear picture of what was happening – I feel there is an element of porky-pies going on here as we would have noticed this level of canvassing – does anybody know where their data centre was?
The postal vote question was put to her – but not answered
Might be useful to find out where the missing £750,000 that Rev highlights above went.
seanair says:
Yes, there does seem to be a tendency for it to be somewhat hidden!
Some this will be down to individual staff attitudes, I suspect.
However, the National does suffer from the problem that its rather thin body means it doesn’t stand upright as well as other newspapers do. In some cases that is why it gets consigned to lie flat on the bottom shelf.
@manandboy
I am surprised and disappointed to see the Greens only spent £13,734 and the SSP £12,728. It appears that Independence didn’t mean that much to either group.
Gie’s a fuckin break, what gives you the right to suggest that “Independence didn’t mean that much to either group”?
How do you this to be true? Are you some kind of spokesperson or fuckin sage?
A word of advice and you can take it or leave it. Stop talking shit when it is something you can’t possibly know about and at best is an uneducated guess.
Comments such as yours which are divisive are the pits.
The following comment is up on J.TOdd’s article on Labour Uncut
“Labour have elected a leader that even his supporters do not see as prime minister, which runs contrary to the basic function of opposition. We have, therefore, abdicated the status of an aspirant party of government, rendering us pretty pointless.”
Ooft
BTW Rev did you ever submit Wings’ referendum income/spending returns to the Electoral Commission? I’ve seen unionists online claim you haven’t.
Yet another fine example of the the people of Scotland being treated like s***e!
http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/tesco-delivers-slap-in-the-face-to-scottish-sheep-farmers.27709996
Next time we are in Tesco, those who still go there, this might be a good wee article to keep in mind if you are up for some mischievous trouble making in Tesco’s. 😀
I’m thinking of going along looking at their Scottish lamb and asking one of the staff where the Scottish lamb is. When they point to the lamb I’ll ask them how I know what they are pointing at is Scottish lamb and despite their response just make mention of the fact that Tesco is renowned for putting foreign lamb in the Scottish section and selling as Scottish lamb. 😀
I only have one wee problem to over come now … convincing my partner to take me to Tesco’s. 😀
That Cumbria Broadband/ToryRory Stewart donation smells like the proverbial Bolivian cyclist’s jockstrap.
Is it some sort of shell company used to funnel undeclared money?
Did/Does the Electoral Commission have a legal duty to ensure transparency here?
Would that previously moribund ‘company’ now have a legal requirement to produce accounts for the time in question showing where the money came from?
Been thinking about the BBC favourite Battles etc…
Getting Bannockburn in there might not be such a good idea,
I mean, do we really want the BBC to reinvent the perception as it stands?
They couldn’t even list several bullet-points without twisting the truth…
To call the utter defeat, which led to Edward II (son of the hammer) to be killed by his own countrymen, A SETBACK is laughable.
We suffered a setback a year ago, but we didn’t get the knives out.( or indeed the red hot pokers)..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K73gNKjFx0I (Be smart, just watch the video!)
WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON BETWEEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND?
Or, who is really running things, and what can we do about it.
Let’s get to the point. For us Scots, the fuss is about Independence. But, for Westminster, the fuss is about Scotland’s wealth. Cameron & Crew don’t give a monkeys about Independence except in so far as it is the key to CONTROLLING Scotland’s natural resources, especially it’s energy wealth, which is MASSIVE and way beyond what the general population have been told it is by the UK Gov.
In order to understand why we are in an almighty battle with Westminster over Scottish Oil, Gas & Renewables, it is important to understand that the UK Government is NOT ACTING ALONE but in tandem with all the neo-Liberal governments around the world, predominantly the US and the European Union Countries, all of whom have suicidal DEBT – but more of that later. But what all these governments are doing is shoving all the debt on to the general population but taking the peoples assets and giving them to the rich. In Scotland, that’s Oil & Gas plus renewables.
Please listen to Catherine Austin Fitts address the current global debt / financial /economic crisis in the clip on YouTube linked above. Filmed in May this year, what she has to say is not old news because she is talking about what is to come which is closer now than it was in May.
She talks about trapping people in debt, and, The Black Swan viz. populations with governments which are ruining peoples lives. Governments who are to all intents and purposes, acting like psychopaths. However, the tipping point comes when the population decides enough is enough and then do something about it. Electing Jeremy Corbyn is a sign that in England, the people are waking up to the psychopaths known as this Tory Government.
The Independence movement is just such an awakening, albeit a good deal earlier, and an almost certain influence on the socialist voters of England who have done the unimaginable in electing Corbyn.
Leaving Cameron & Osborne in power is only going to RUIN Scotland and England and harm more and more people in the UK. It has got to STOP!
Catherine Austin Fitts has much more to say. She really fills in the blanks in our understanding of the upheaval we are all experiencing.
And you know, when serious minded people start wondering when the US is going to start another major war in order to solve the problems of it’s own economy, then it’s time to listen carefully.
BTW If you haven’t heard of Catherine Austin Fitts before now, she is one very very clever individual whose expertise in the world of finance is second to none.
Judge for yourselves.
Thanks for that info Galamcennalath – much appreciated.
Muscleguy, as Stu would say…” does nobody ever click the links…”
Look at the asterix para below the figures.
Thepnr at 4:51 pm
A word of advice and you can take it or leave it.
—————————
I’ll leave it. A foul mouth is rarely worth listening to.
Agreeing with Craig Murray – the BBC has to go; http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/09/the-bbc-is-irredeemable/
Lesley-Anne wrote:
Yet another fine example of the the people of Scotland being treated like s***e!
http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/tesco-delivers-slap-in-the-face-to-scottish-sheep-farmers.27709996
I’m already decreasing my spend at Tesco and spending more at Lidls as i work towards ditching them altogether.
That article will only strengthen my determination.
BTW, It’s also a serious case for the toothless Croc, The ASA.
Also, these last 2 articles from The Rev provide all the info one needs for a serious complaint to that other gummsy Croc, IPSO.
We should be inundating them with demands for a prominent correction and apology. It’s blatant lying and smearing.
My My
Drive time on ECB(Scottish Branch).Blairite on “Most Mp’s did not vote for Corbyn” Woa are we !!.
But the feckin members voted for him.If these arseholes don’t like it withdraw from the labour whip.Then see what happens.
I see that Better Together 2012 Ltd is still listed at companies house, directors unchanged from last year. The board of directors seems unchanged since last year. I will leave it to yourself if you want to have a dig through the directors, but they are a mixture of Red and Blue Tory troughers, with the odd venture capitalist and marketing person thrown in.
http://www.endole.co.uk/company/SC425421/better-together-2012-limited?page=people
Interstingly, Alistair Darling has set up a new company in his own name, registered at the same address as Better Together in Edinburgh.
Totally embarrassing Bitter together callers on K way an e this morning.
EBC radio Scotchshire comments on Labour no longer Red Torries.
I will give it till the end of the month, to see if they have changed back to their values.
Then it will be back to usual,
RED TORRIES.
Jim Sillars speaking in Glasgow on IndyLive now
http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/InPlaceOfFailure
manandboy
Psychopaths is it? Wall Street depends on narco-terrorism to remain liquid. Narco-terrorism has long been a tool of colonial imperialists though, eh HSBC?
This is ‘drone culture’ on stilts.
Merger of Big Banks and National Security Power … What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/big-banks-want-power-literally-declare-war.html
Folks, brace yourselves, BBC Labour will now be promoting the “Corbyn Bounce” big time from now until May 2016. It will be relentless. Labour coming home and all that crap. No worries whatsoever – just grin and bear it fo a while. IMO events down south will pull the rug from under BBC Labour’s cunning little plan.
link to Catherine Austin Fitts
http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/narcoDollars.html#p1d
O/T For any one in Dundee on the 21st September. There’s an event called “Scotland’s Referendum: One Year On”. “An evening of reflection, looking back at the year since the Scottish Referendum.”
The panellists are David Torrance and Dr Nicola McEwen, hosted by Brian Taylor. See link below for free tickets to event.
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/events/2015/210915-scotlands-referendum-one-year-on.php
Did I really hear on the radio that a poll has shown that 35%
of SNP supporters would abandon the party if they lead the country to a second referendum?
I can’t have heard that.
Would people join SNP to maintain the levels of lies, deceit, and
downright theft coming from Westminster?
Effijy says:
14 September, 2015 at 7:24 pm
Did I really hear on the radio that a poll has shown that 35%
of SNP supporters would abandon the party if they lead the country to a second referendum?
I can’t have heard that.
Would people join SNP to maintain the levels of lies, deceit, and
downright theft coming from Westminster?
https://archive.is/3xBmj
It might have a tenious link to this piece in the Rancid Effijy.
Oh dear, so the SSP “only” spent £12,728 declarable to the EC which covers part but not all of a nearly 3 year campaign. I daresay nobody asked just how much was in the bank account at the time, and how much individual members spent on buses, trains, petrol, printing off copies of the WBB and even leaflets. And yet I’ve heard nothing but praise from the few fellow SNP members I’ve met so far.
Well, take the Weirs. They gave the SNP, apparently, £1 million just before in 2011 and £1 million during the Ref campaign for Indy spending. And yet the SNP’s total spending is “only” £1,298,567 – a “measly” £298,567 from their own coffers as it were.
I’d rest my case, if I could be bothered.
If you didn’t get to see it earlier watch Jim Sillars video on indylive. he talks a lot of sense about what went wrong. Watching it will be time well spent.
http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/InPlaceOfFailure
@Effijy
Just the usual spin-reporting i.e. lies.
The poll wasn’t about SNP members, it was Scots as a whole. One third (31%) said they would be more likely to vote SNP and one-third (33%) said they’d be less likely. And one-third said it wouldn’t make any difference.
There’s been misleading headlines all over the place, as the Unionist press does its usual – misleads the readers.
Twitter is offline at 7.50pm
The money spent on the campaign is limited to a certain period before the vote – not expenditure across the entire campaign.
RIC Edinburgh branch meeting on livestream now
http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/4348019
Lollysmum – thanks for the confirmation re twitter – been trying to access since @ 7.45 but no go. Has it been hacked by GCHQ? 😉
Oops!
Look what I’ve just found on Facebook folks. 😉
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/106832
Don’t all rush at once now will you? 😀
Jings – that last comment posted instantly! Maybe GCHQ is a magic code. 😉
Lollysmum, Twitter is now back up. 😉
I would like to have a second referendum sooner rather than later while all the lies that were told and by. Whome are still fresh in our minds to wait untill you think you have enough support to win means you could wait forever the media are making a big thing about this once in a generation nonsense they are trying to delay it for as long as possible because they want to keep holding you back do not play their game be bold attack do not defend
And Twitter’s back. 🙂
Well well well.
Wee Willie Rennie appears to be moaning and complaining to the Herald about the behaviour of the Better Together crowd last year. 😀
https://archive.is/LwyMr
Twitter working again now
@TJenny – honey, find me on twitter @PaulaHoneyRose xx
Bannockburn has slipped back a point in the BBC battle for best battle. So if you haven’t yet voted here’s the link. Share:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
Al-Stuart at 12:52
I had a look at the Cumbria Broadband Rural and Community Projects Ltd. earlier and thought that is odd? Cumbria? – that must have some link to Rory the Tory.
And surprise surprise it does ! ????????????
“It appears to be a operated by a Roderick James Nuggent Stewart.”
Also I wonder how much Rory’s rewrite of Scottish (sorry “Middleland”) history cost the BBC propaganda channel?
I was down in Cumbria last month on holiday and actual found out from one of the English Heritage guys that Hadrian’s Wall was built because of the Boudicca rebellion and had nothing to do with the Picts and the Celts of Caledonia.
Looks like we are being written out of British History already and we did not even get independence.
Capella says:
14 September, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Bannockburn has slipped back a point in the BBC battle for best battle. So if you haven’t yet voted here’s the link. Share:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
Call me a cynic if you like folks but I suspect this poll will be kept open by our *ahem* beloved BBC until such times as Bannockburn is no longer in first place. 😀
OT but only on one level. Looks like the BBC have managed their ‘Best British Battles’ poll quite effectively. I’m saying nowt. 😉
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media
Military’s ‘sock puppet’ software creates fake online identities to spread pro-American propaganda
https://archive.is/RzpRV
This sort of thing would never be used by UKOK plc., would it?
Talking of “finances” — did anyone else notice that the Alistair Carmichael fundraiser is back up and running, just slightly reworded?
But it now includes the brilliant punchline:
“Winning this ridiculous case has been the least of his worries – paying for it has been”
According to the commentary on Orkney Women’s Grown Up Debate FB page: “So it isn’t about the substance, or morality or truth or justice or the rule of law… it’s all about the dosh. Well, what a surprise!”
Sorry to go O/T but the thread has been up for a while and it is, kind of, related… especially if you google some of the donors’ names… the list includes LibDem peers (and their spouses, LibDem councillors, election agents, SPADs etc…
Luigi@3.38pm
Re;
The National, it can be hard to get hold of, but much of the time I find a whole pile on the bottom shelf, upside down in our Edinburgh local shops. Grrr.
I noticed there were a lot less generally during the festival, which is interesting. I have spotted one rabid unionist I know who was putting them under the tory rags one day! I undid his dirty work. More grrr.
Can you order it to be delivered? Not the same but you can subscribe online.
@Capella
I suspect there will be some quantitative easing being done at the BBC. I mean the good fairies there can’t do it all in one night or in one day even it would be to obvious.
Prepare to be beaten by a short head…still one in the eye for Harold… eh! eh! 🙂
The Willie Rennie article in the Herald is quite revealing although not in the tiniest bit surprising. I can imagine some of our naysayers who liked to pretend that they had grass roots support will be a tiny bit cheesed off at his confirming what we all knew.
It would seem that the result, or the way it was achieved, left a sour taste in some of the No voters mouths too.
On the battle of the battles – I seriously doubt the BBC will countenance a Bannockburn win…even if they have to get the tea boy to sit and vote for one of the others for 10 hours non stop.
“And yet the SNP’s total spending is “only” £1,298,567 – a “measly” £298,567 from their own coffers as it were.”
The SNP also heavily subsidised Yes Scotland.
Just a wee reminder, that the iScot fundraiser is still running, but a wee way to go. One of the really exciting things they plan to do, if they reach their target, is to have the very first ever crowd funded TV advert for such a pro Scotland publication. I’d like to see that.
The good news is that a wee bit of funding can get you either digital copies, or monthly, rather svelte, glossy print copies straight to yer hoose. Thirty pounds gets you a 12 month digital subscription, and full access to the archives.
We who support independence, need Scottish owned and run media like iScot to succeed.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-phase-2-be-the-change#/story
CameronB Brodie
Think uk twitter is already being sock puppeted.
New followers are mostly just cyphers and phoney advertising shit.
Block block block
Dug
A landslide predicted…Aye maybe but I can see why wee Rennie is flapping his gums.
Wullie the incredible shrinking man… good film got a spider in it too. He’s down 4% 🙂
Anyhoo!
https://archive.is/iGraG
“The SNP also heavily subsidised Yes Scotland”
Yes Rev, which kind of makes my point. The SNP also picked up the tab after the ref for YES Scotland’s bills, to the tune of £750,000 IIRC.
@ ArtyHetty
I expect you could order the National to be delivered, but I discovered recently that I couldn’t have it put by in the Co-op – the explanation was that they had to return all unsold copies at the end of each day.
They do occasionally sell out, but usually there are copies left even if I go in very late. They’re not hidden, but they are not always especially prominent, either, until I’ve re-arranged them.
@ MolliBlum
Has been what? (I know what is meant, but it is quite depressing that qualified lawyers – apparently – are so illiterate.)
In case anybody’s wondering who WFS2014 Ltd. is, companies house tells me it’s this charmer
https://www.marketingsociety.com/speakers/ghill-donald
… their accounts are due in February. Stu, the books of the various NO-funding ‘startups’ might be a fertile place for you to do some digging?
If Rennie didn’t likevaspects of the BT campaign he should have said so at the time.
Like the former Scot Lab leader sayng after the Ref that Scot Lab was treated as branch office.
oo late after the event.
Re: the BBC ‘Battles” poll.
If you’re using Firefox, download and install the “Remove Cookies For site” add-on.
Then go the poll page. If you’ve voted already, it will confirm that. Right click on the page, then select “Remove Cookies For site” from the list. Down at the bottom left of the window, it will tell you how many cookies have been removed. It should be 10 or 11.
Reload the page and you should be able to vote again. If not, do another “Remove Cookies For site” and reload to try again.
It’s working for me…
And again, and again…
I wonder how many newsagents there are in Scotland?
The Yes movement has many volunteers without current active tasks.
Street vendors could be set up, mobile, selling The National and Iscot for expenses only, I’d do a shift, a half day a week..
Anyone else notice that the Rollers had a Saltire on their bass drum for their first US tour?
All day we’ve had reports of ” 35% of jobs at risk from ROBOTS within 20 years. ” from smiling journalists..
Obviously any complicit journos are to be spared.
That’s over 15 Million workers!
Little wonder the Tories are pushing union busting and TITP etc..
Project fear…? It’s branching out.
LOL! Better Together Ltd have an overdue debt to RBS… I wonder if that’s for ‘services rendered’ 😉
Euch, the evil Kurgan (Keunsberg) and Fuuuckface (Peston)..
On the same show..establishment handwringers..
Yuck..
Euch, the evil Kurgan (Keunsberg) and Fuuuckface (Peston)..
On the same show..establishment handwringers..
Yuck.. Patronising and incredulous to the last.. Disrespecting honest voters.
Yuck..
@ louis.b.argyll
Journos can’t be replaced by machines
How do you program robots to lie
@Brian Doonthetoon – same here, clear history, keep voting because they are cheating, unlike us??!!:)
I’ve been thinking about this battles poll on bbc.
It cannot have escaped our attention that the poll ends on Sept 18.
I think it is possible that we are being trolled, and our voting up of Bannockburn is completely predictable. They will twist this to fit their own agenda.
Don’t be surprised to see articles popping up in the near future about nasty cybernats disrespecting those brave pilots.
louis.b.argyll says:
14 September, 2015 at 9:52 pm
I wonder how many newsagents there are in Scotland?
The Yes movement has many volunteers without current active tasks.
Street vendors could be set up, mobile, selling The National and Iscot for expenses only, I’d do a shift, a half day a week..
The National team have made a great start, but distribution now seems to be seriously limiting availability IMO and almost certainly, sales and further growth. They now have to up the ante.
Availability is a current problem.
Luis b
We have had reports about this all day to make people watch panorama tonight, which was about this subject.
I thought about watching, but after last week’s hatchet job on Corbyn, I decided to give it a miss.
Just watched EBC scotchshire 6.30 propaganda.
Burd looks like she is going to implode at the thought of another indy vote, and I was wondering where toodles the noodles had been hiding.
Any guesses. NumNum
;ouis.b.argyll says:
14 September, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Euch, the evil Kurgan (Keunsberg) and Fuuuckface (Peston)..
On the same show..establishment handwringers..
Yuck.. Patronising and incredulous to the last.. Disrespecting honest voters.
Yuck..
Speaking of Yuck, I just saw Cameron’s photoshoot in the Middle east, showing how caring the UK is. Pass the sick bag. 🙁
The refugee crisis is due to not a lack of European money in the camps, it is a direct result of western, neoliberal imperial interference in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia and Syria, Mr Cameron. And your drones will produce many more. The destabilisation of the middle east will destabilise the whole of Europe.
Re: The National.
My local newsagent (family owned) keeps the National for me and several others.
Once when it wasn’t delivered he promised to get it for me the following day. I didn’t hold out much hope but he was true to his word.
Seems it may be the large chains/supermarkets who are taking orders from Head Office are the main problem.
North Koreans believe that they are having a wonderful life compared to the rest of the world.
A majority of Scots polled, believe that without England, Scotland would be poverty stricken.
In today’s National, Andrew Learmonth scrutinises recent polls.
Apparently the Panelbase poll from yesterday showed that 45% of those polled said Scotland would be financially worse off under Independence, while only 36% thought Independence would make Scotland financially stronger.
This stubborn belief in Scotland’s poverty persists despite 40 years of North Sea Oil and Gas production, the revenues from which would have made Scotland one of the wealthiest countries in the world had Scotland been independent.
Now, another Oil & Gas bonanza has begun in the seas around Shetland, while yet another still awaits off Scotlands West Coast down as far as the maritime boundary with the Irish Republic.
What is it going to take to open the eyes of the people of North Korea.
What is it going to take to open the eyes of the people of Scotland.
OT. Given the Project Fearing going on in the Westminster bubble, I think it might be helpful Rev., if you came up with a spoof flagging system for your twitter feed. 😉
@ Flying Scotsman 10:21 – disrespecting which pilots? The British, Polish? xx
BBC battle poll: Bannockburn down to 25% BOB 25% and Hastings 22%.
The feature has been given more prominence on the England section of the website.
Lesley Anne
Thanks for the link
https://archive.is/3xBmj
They have an Independence Poll at the foot of the page which currently stands at 60% YES.
Just goes to show the validity of their poll suggesting a No win
Battle of Britain now level with Bannockburn in the BBC poll.
Get voting if you haven’t already done so
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
Just watched EBC scotchshire 6.30 propaganda.
BBC London teatime tv news gives a really fair shout for NOT red and blue tories which is worth watching just make you spew even harder at Pacific Quay vote SLab vote SLabour grot.
Tonight they had on David Mellor and Ken Livingstone who gave Mellor a right good leftie spanking, which he seemed to enjoy. Then had really nice interviews with London Lab women MP’s in JC cabinet, none of the relentless sneering interrupts BBC reserve for vile separatists.
Mellor now looks like a bleached mole in a floppy blonde wig peering at the camera in the sunlight and Livingston says he got the booming London we know today due to his decades of massive investment in London transport infrastructure and stuff like the London 2012 Olympics.
BBC London often like to zoom up to their Scotland region for some lazy Sturgeon or Salmond smear but they’re a bit busy obviously. Seriously creepy outfit though.
Is it just me or does anyone else detect a change of mind-set in the unionist camp?
There seems to be a grim faced resignation to the growing realisation that they may have won the battle but they’re going to lose the war.
@ X_Sticks – maybe they realise that being a family of self-determining countries is actually a strength.
@ Dave McEwan Hill, 11:33pm
Was neck and neck with the Battle of Britain at 25% a wee while back. Get in there and vote BANNOCKBURN just for that luscious superior feeling.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
It’ll take a lot more than this. So far, all we’ve seen are the fighters putting on their gloves and a bit of eyeballing. Let’s see who lands the first solid punch.
Yes X. Wee Darling was twitching like a banshee on STV tonight. Saying that Cameron was playing a dangerous game and Scotland was divided.
It was aye divided Brits and Scots, always has been. The SNP didn’t invent Scottishness. The Brits tried to extinguish it, but we won’t give up on our country just because they did.
Bannockburn now at 26%.
There seems to be a grim faced resignation to the growing realisation that they may have won the battle but they’re going to lose the war
Hard core UKOK liar Cockers of the torygraph is very grim tonight and all the time, so who’s to know
“Of course she’ll now say that those dastardly Brits’ behaviour have made another referendum essential. It is, of course, just so much baloney.
But did you really expect anything better from such poor losers?
*Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary”
Equally weird is rancid The Graun’s dozens and dozens of welcome to JC Labour stuff but absolutely none of them mention their Scotland region and issues like how there are no SLab MP’s left in their Scotland region.
Red toryboy Murray doesn’t count for obvious red tory reasons. Even so, its like their Scotland land doesn’t even exist in the UKOK, shock, for progressive liberal Graun.
UKOK pretending Scotland no longer exists could actually work.
If the Yes campaign total spend of £3.2 million had been used with the same efficacy as Wing’s 65 grand we would have walked it.
OT – @Nana Smith – some days ago, you posted a link which was some disinformation about Russian nuclear weapons being taken to Syria. I thought that this post would be of interest to you.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/so-what-are-russians-really-doing-syria/ri9717
heedtracker
If they are busy pretending we don’t exist, could we just quietly run a wee indyref, cut the power cables, cut the pipelines, cancel the direct debit, change the locks and just drift away into the future while they’re no looking?
@heedtracker
The main danger is that disaffected Lefty support in Scotland see JC as the second coming in preference to the SNP.
There is an internationalist element to the left which sees exploited class solidarity across national borders as being a principled stance, an element to whom the shunning of that principle would result in several clicks on their guilt monitor.
This will play on them even if they believe Scots are entitled to normal levels of self government.
We have to get the message across that the best way to help the exploited class in England would be, by far, best served by the concrete example of a fairer society in an independent Scotland.
Indeed Corbyn’s success itself owes no little thanks to the near miss of the referendum and the glimpse of an alternative to neo feudalim it provided, IMO.
Without that concrete example, Corbynism will be strangled at birth, it has no chance.
Of course Establishment mandarins may choose to preserve the illusion that radical realignment in the UK is possible via Corbyn, just long enough to sink the SNP in 2016.
(O/T Finlay and inquisitive types – http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-28/#comment-2057570 )
“It wasn’t very much, for Heaven’s sake: we just went down and jemmied a door. I was just one of the war-time generation that happened to survive [the war].
I don’t like being singled out. To jemmy open a door and steal a big stone was dead easy. The Abbey was empty. We played our luck, we pressed on regardless, but if you want to do anything in life, you have to play your luck.”
https://archive.is/ULtGs
The more I read about Corbyn the more I see that I dislike.
He says it is up to Scots to decide independence (despite him also saying another referendum so soon would have no legitimacy). Yet this is a man who has campaigned for a United Ireland for decades why would he allow a “disunited” Great Britain?
He lets his dislike of NATO and American Imperialism seeming blind himself to the acts of Russia. He doesn’t blame Russia for their invasion of Ukraine saying they were provoked by NATO and that letting former Warsaw Pact nations join NATO was “probably a mistake”.
At the end of the day though the most interesting thing I’ve seen is that as the “most rebellious MP” he defied the Labour party 25% of the time. To me that means he is 75% New Labour and that is 75% too much.
This is a man who has campaigned for a United Ireland for decades, why would he allow a “disunited” Great Britain?
It’s a significant contradiction only an Englishman could hold. He argues for us to rid Ireland of an artificial divide imposed on it by his government, (one of many the England has to its name) but demands Scotland remain subsumed into England. Our democratic rights don’t count.
The Irish are their own nation, the Scots not.
On the Ukrainian issue, I don’t think he’s blind to Russia’s interference, but he acknowledges it’s in retaliation for NATO moving to the Russian border after promises were made to withdraw.
I’d certainly feel threatened if England pulled its nuclear weapons along the Scottish border, and as self-protection, do my best to have Berwick as a buffer.
@inkall
Why should he blame Russia?
NATO rushed right to the Russian border the first chance they had,the only aggression I have seen is from the west and the media.
After the fuss the US made over Cuba, I think Russia has been rather restrained.
Why is the poll for the Battles Only on BBC England ? Oh sorry I have just woken up, literally! Forgot my place in this bastard Union.
O/T
I have copies of every photo driving license, first to get one, and none have Union flag’ wife got replacement last week and it’s there, where can I get a sticky label?
This Union love booming is beginning to become harassment! If they don’t stop I will have to call the police!
Lesley-Anne says
“Call me a cynic if you like folks but I suspect this poll will be kept open by our *ahem* beloved BBC until such times as Bannockburn is no longer in first place”
Hell will freeze over first! 😉
Well that’s another couple of dozen votes,
who’s taking over?
@ crazycat says:
14 September, 2015 at 9:43 pm
“Winning this ridiculous case has been the least of his worries – paying for it has been”
Has been what?
——–
Good question. Strictly speaking, it means “paying for it has been the least of his worries”.
Not sure that’s what they really intended to say, though.
Freudian slip?
John king 6:04
Oh don’t worry Banorkburn will simply be rewritten! That supreme historian Oliver is on the job ” it’s near Falkirk” I hear him ask!
Flying Scotsman
“NATO rushed right to the Russian border the first chance they had,the only aggression I have seen is from the west and the media.
After the fuss the US made over Cuba, I think Russia has been rather restrained.”
I could not agree more,
just imagine the USA surrounded on all sides by Russian allies and consider what they would do about it, they certainly wouldn’t sit back and accept it that’s for sure,
I dont like Putin I think he’s a nasty piece of work but that doesn’t detract from Russia’s right to defend itself
Yesterday I said : “I am surprised and disappointed to see the Greens only spent £13,734 and the SSP £12,728. It appears that Independence didn’t mean that much to either group. Appearances can often be deceptive of course. But over such a long and vital campaign, to me it doesn’t seem very much.”
As other always helpful commenters have kindly pointed out, my arithmetic was all wrong, as the figures apply only to a far shorter period in the run up to the ballot. So with apologies to my friends in the SSP & Greens, I retract my completely miscalculated ‘surprise and disappointment‘.
I did know about the ‘official’ campaigning period, but I forgot all about it.
O/T links
http://tommyballgovan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/something-about-scottish-labours.html?spref=tw
http://unisondave.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/trade-union-bill-and-scotland.html
https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/the-forced-labour-party-the-day-that-corbyn-and-half-his-cabinet-voted-for-workfare/
Inkall, If you’re going to criticise Putin for supporting the Russian population in the Crimea, then you should also realise that the government in Ukraine was overthrown by far right elements backed by the EU and US. As ever, the truth is far from what you will see reported here(the UK).
O/T links
https://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2015/09/12/the-scottish-independence-podcast-112-jim-sillars/
Front page of some rag this morning tells us Scotland 2nd bottom in developed nations but hey we’re better together according to no voters.
Meanwhile French tv says we are 14th richest nation in the world. Get off your knees no voters.
http://www.reprieve.org.uk/press/uk-drones-letter-to-un-casts-doubt-on-prime-ministers-claims-to-parliament/
@cirsium
Thanks for that link.
This morning Bannockburn still tied with Battle of Britain /www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
And IScot funder moving to 27k of £45,000 appeal with only 48 hours to go. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-phase-2-be-the-change/x/10763804#/story
Since democracy means the people rules, New Labour have given us clear evidence, in the reaction to the election of Jeremy Corbyn as the new leader of the Labour Party, that they actually don’t believe in democracy.
Not that they are alone, since they are just like the Tories and the Media. The BBC, in particular, has refused to respect the democratic vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
And as for the Tories, with their outrageous and hilarious warning that the Labour Party are now a threat to national security and to the security of each family.
I don’t know what the UK Governments renovation plans are for the Houses of Parliament, but repairing and replacing the stonework is the least important of all that needs to be done. But then of course, after Independence, it will not be of any great concern to Scotland.
O/T RT reports that the police are dropping their inquiry into VIP paedophile ring murder case. Don’t know if this is covered on our other state broadcaster.
http://on.rt.com/6ra8
Talking of the Corbyn stance on Irish unity; Ireland was part of the Imperial tradition as much as Scotland. Wellington was Anglo-Irish.
Some of those who served the British Empire administration, civil service and forces did become part of the Irish Independence movement.
Independence wasn’t supported by the majority in Ireland until the leaders of the ‘uprising’ were hanged, then there was a change in attitude.
John King wrote:
“Hell will freeze over first!”
The Battle of Beeb – Let history show the charge was led by our very own King John. (((((CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE)))))
The Tories are about to indulge in a good ol’ piece of gerrymandering as they prepare to redraw the constituency boundaries. This is ‘necessary’ in order to reduce the number of MP’s from 650 to 600. The new boundaries will of course favour the Tories.
At the same time, Cameron might also redraw the map of Britain with a single dividing line just north of London, and put only the words ‘POVERTY’ and ‘PLENTY’ on his new map. I’ll leave Wings readers to figure out which word will go where.
(Info: Early 19th century: from the name of Governor Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts + salamander, from the supposed similarity between a salamander and the shape of a new voting district on a map drawn when he was in office (1812), the creation of which was felt to favour his party; the map (with claws, wings, and fangs added) was published in the Boston Weekly Messenger, with the title The Gerry-Mander .)
From the BBC News last night you wouldn’t think Nicola and the Scottish cabinet had been in Coatbridge yesterday, Oh but Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn! As much relevance to Scotland as M Moone.
Great being able to meet and chat with John Swinnie and ask direct questions of the cabinet members.
O/T links
Devolution (Further Powers) Committee 10 September 2015 – See more at:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10076
https://revoltingsubject.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/glasgow-versus-the-queen/
and a couple more…
http://ecowatch.com/2015/09/13/uk-build-new-nuclear-plants/?utm_
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/06/04/ukrainians-dispossessed-americans-next-paul-craig-roberts/
Inkall. Here’s a documentary on the Ukraine from Miguel Santiago which investigates the media lies fed to us in the “West”. Miguel also has a shorter one on the Crimea which is worth watching. Good to look at both sides, yes?
http://rtd.rt.com/films/mosaic-of-facts/#part-1
Nana Smith at 8:03 am
O/T links
Thanks Nana – I’ve just read your linked material – I don’t know how you do it, but you’re doing a brilliant job.
@Andrew McLean,
you can get Saltire stickers for your driving licence from The BonnyBadge company.
Check them out on facebook or Twitter.
They look great!
I think I might get one even thought I do not have UJ on my licence. 🙂
Someone posted here yesterday about tesco delivering a slap in the face to scottish farmers re new zealand lamb. What a shame, as scottish farmers were vociferous for a no vote last sep. What goes around comes around.
“Oh but Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn! As much relevance to Scotland as M Moone.”
Aye, Gerry, sick to the back teeth of all this Corbyn tripe.
I think that’s the first i’ve ever commented on the old goat and hopefully this will be my last.
What’s the first 2 things Corbyn did?
Firstly he set up his Cabinet with a mixture of ornamental morons.
Then secondly he joined The Privy Council.
Corbyn is no different from the rest of them, he’ll do exactly what the London establishment tell him.
gerry parker says: @8.35
Good point as BBC / MSM rarely mentions fact far less give any coverage that Scottish government goes around the country to openly meet local residents and listen to their concerns.
TV coverage would be more interesting than listening to North British Labour MSPs / MPs boasting that they have 15,000 new members but forgetting to mention how many lived in Scotland.
@ Inkall in case you haven’t got the time to look it up.
Crimea for Dummies. 30 mins:
http://rtd.rt.com/films/crimea-for-dummies/
Brian Powell says: 8:28 am
Independence wasn’t supported by the majority in Ireland until the leaders of the ‘uprising’ were hanged, then there was a change in attitude.
Nothing’s changed. There are plenty of No voters of Irish descent. Hard to bear; very difficult to figure. Perhaps just deeply ingrained conservatism consistent with many who live in rural economies. Then again, there’s not much of a rural economy in west central Scotland. It’s got me beat.
“Capella says:
15 September, 2015 at 8:24 am
O/T RT reports that the police are dropping their inquiry into VIP paedophOle ring murder case.”
Yes, and I noticed Radio Four ran with the dropping of charges against Paul Gambaccini alleging sex with two boys. You see, there’s really nothing to worry about at the BBC seems to be the message.
Chic McGregor: the Corbynite Effect was a worry for me too, but I think many left-wingers have outgrown this infantile argument as a result of the real revolution of the Yes campaign. After all, it was only ever used to snuil Scotland. What socialist in England ever suggested a British-French-German Workers’ Republic?
Mr C will be assailed both from without and within and his monstering will be relentless. I think Scotland will be the last thing on his metrovincial mind and it will show to voters up here. I don’t give him very long before things fall apart.
BTW, while visiting a pal last night, saw the fragrant Miss Kuennsberg and that floppy-haired foppish drawling ninny El Pesto on Pravdavision. Jings, crivvens, HMB! Thank God I never watch that stuff anymore. Felt the strong need for a shower.
Creepy!
O/T re the BBC Battle Poll, it looks like it is only linked on the BBC England pages, can’t see a link for it on the BBC Scotland or BBC UK pages. A bit strange that is it supposed to be a UK wide poll.
Bannockburn still ahead though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
.
O/T, small article buried in the ‘Scum’ today about how workers will have to delay their retirement to avoid falling into poverty because returns from pension plans have plummeted.
‘There is a real danger that tomorrow’s pensioners will end up in poverty.’
The mantra was, ‘your pension would only be safe if Scotland remained part of the UK.’ Better Together my arse.
Stoker: Oh but Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn! As much relevance to Scotland as M Moone.”
Westminster will always invent a diversion to distract attention from the ludicrous opinions they hold.
Congrats to BBCScotland this morning in its promotion of Corbyn for a full hour as K Adams swoons at his very name but does not rebuke derogatory comments over the appearance of the First Minister. Corbyn a guy from London wears a tie! Let’s have a radio programme to discuss.
Who are the people in Pacific Quay that pull the political strings?
Dave Dee,
Thanks for the link. I just added my vote. Bannockburn currently 27%, BoB 25%.
I fear the postal vote will swing it again though!
@Chic
“Establishment mandarins may choose to preserve the illusion that radical realignment in the UK is possible via Corbyn, just long enough to sink the SNP in 2016.”
That will undoubtedly have crossed their minds and Call boakface on bbc has been pushing anyone calling saying “I voted SNP, but I think I’ll go for labour with Corbyn”
They are desperately hoping the ‘old’ ‘new’ labour will damage the SNP in May.
It will be very interesting to see what Corbyn says when he visits Scotland next week. If he’s no better informed than he was when he was campaigning here then I doubt anyone with two or more brain cells will be swayed by him.
For those wanting Saltire stickers, badges or magnets from Bonny Badge, they have a PDF catalogue.
Contact Sharon Dolan-Powers, thebonnybadgecompany@gmail.com
There was a mass Home Rule in Ireland throughout the 19C led by Charles Stewart Parnell a landowning Protestant. The Catholics had no rights. A Home Rule Bill was due to go through Westminster in 1914. (Gladstone). Interrupted by WW1. (Gladstone) Universal suffrage 1928. The Unionists in the six counties started obtaining weapons. Major Fred Crawford.
Sine Feine are on line to win north and south of the border. Demographics. Reunification? That’s why the Unionists (who ruined their own economy) are trying to disrupt Stormont.
Again Prof Curtis suggesting that the ‘unionists’ should support a referendum on the ‘new powers’ in Smith Commission.
he says it might put the YES gas at a peep!
https://archive.is/rS76s
PS:
Well done on the Battle of battles.
Bannock burn nudges ahead again 27% to BoB 25%. 🙂
@DaveDee
Bit annoying that they are using a part of the Aberlemno stone which illustrates the Battle of Nechtansmere which ended Anglic incursion northwards in Scotland to depict (sic) the battle of Brunanburh.
Re the BBC battle survey:
They have a bloody cheek to put a picture of the Pictish slab from Aberlemno Kirkyard in their piece about Brunanburh. We’ve no heritage, we’ll just misrepresent yours. We’re all British.
manandboy says:
There are parallels with Ireland and Scotland. The Irish story of the last 4 decades of being part of the UK is quite different, though.
Ireland consistently, from the 1880s, gave their home rule party a majority of the seats and umpteen attempts were made to pass home rule bills.
As a backlash to UK behaviour, in the 1918 GE the moderate Irish Parliamentary Party was replaced by Sinn Féin.
From 1919-1921 the armed struggle led to negotiations with the UK. Full independence was not on offer. The UK wanted to retain strings. The choice of accept the UK offer versus go back to armed struggle was put to the voters. They accepted the offer.
In 1922 most of Ireland achieved Free State status, not quite the full Independence many had hoped and fought for. The country then plunged into a bloody civil war 1922-1923 which was much worse than the war with the British state 1919-1921.
The struggle had been for Home Rule, and only latterly did factions want full independence and they didn’t achieve it. Ireland was split in several ways. The obvious North / South but also between maintaining some ties and moving to full independence.
The Irish exit wasn’t simple or with concensus either!
Most Catholic Scots are of Irish descent.
Percentages of all voters…
11% Described themselves as Protestant and voted Yes
27% Described themselves as Protestant and voted No
7% Described themselves as Catholic and voted Yes
6% Described themselves as Catholic and voted No
Tinto,
Yes, last night’s news with Laura and Rooooobert was verging on sinister.
A couple of ‘generations’ ago these types would have been shoehorned into upper-civil-service…
.. today, they are more effective protecting the establishment by having media careers.
Stools.
Jeremy Corbyn: The Mancunian Candidate
Well, as usual, Radio Scotland has brought me close to vomiting; talk about morning sickness. Today the talk is of Corbyn and how he looks and dresses. Propagandists at Pacific Quay know that you couldn’t discuss Corbyn’s form without alluding to his lofty substance. That’s the dialectic. Very clever.
So, the simple goal is to bowl us all over with Corbyn, his sincerity, and those good old Labour values. That’s their strong card going into the Holyrood elections. The press down south will obligingly give Corbyn an easy ride for a year or two, allowing him to serve his purpose North of the border before vilifying him. The overarching role of Corbyn, the reason he was elected leader, even if he doesn’t know it himself, is to smash the SNP.
I dread the whole thing.
The first Irish Home Bill was introduced in 1886. It was defeated. In 1893 the Gaelic League was formed. Sinn Fein was founded in 1905.
After the GE of 1910 for the first time since 1886 a Liberal Gov needed Irish Party votes to secure a parliamentary majority.The price was Home Rule. A Bill was instigated causing trouble in Ulster. It was passed in 1912, although the House of Lords used delaying tactics voted against it, ensuring it would not come into force until September 1914.
O/T on Ukraine
While I fully agree that both sides should be looked at I find those posting Russia Today articles seem to have missed the whole deal with Russia Today, especially on their stances when it comes to anything giving Russia trouble.
Russia Today seem to have gone to the very same State Broadcaster school that the BBC went when it comes to “fair” coverage of a situation the Government dislike.
manandboy at 9.03
They were shot,not hanged which was a disgraceful act as they had surrendered and the shooting of Edinburgh’s John Connolly, strapped to a chair as he was already too badly wounded to stand up, did more to propel Ireland to independence than any other event.
The community you talk of in West central Scotland is now in a substantial majority in the YES camp. Being asked to march behind Union Jacks last year was a step too far and they have abandoned the pathetic Labour Party which had expected them to do so.
It is the proudScotbuts we have a problem with.
@manandboy
I’ve just read your linked material – I don’t know how you do it.
Thanks, I don’t know either! Must have been a ferret in a former life. Oh and speed reading helps!
For anyone who missed Dennis Skinner berating Emily Maitliss…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJHq4k3jAA&feature=youtu.be
call me dave says:
Smith Commission powers, or current Scotland Bill powers?
They are two quite different things. I looked at the report and it isn’t quite clear.
The SNP signed up to Smith. There were some good things in it like guaranteeing the permanency of the Scottish Parliament. There is no suggestion that in the Scotland Bill.
If there were a referendum of a Bill offering Smith, the SNP would be obliged to back a Yes vote.
However, if there were a referendum on the current Scotland Bill, I would expect the SNP to campaign for rejection. A difficult position, rejecting more powers. However, if it isn’t Smith, far less The Vow, then WM should be told to think again and come up with something appropriate.
It seems unlikely that the Tories plan to offer Smith. So if they want a referendum on their current crap, then ‘bring it on’, I say.
louis b: “stools”.
Do you mean a three-legged seat or faecal agglomerations, i.e. Jobbies?
Of course, in Peston’s case, the seat would have two legs.
michael diamond says:
15 September, 2015 at 8:58 am
Someone posted here yesterday about tesco delivering a slap in the face to scottish farmers re new zealand lamb. What a shame, as scottish farmers were vociferous for a no vote last sep. What goes around comes around.
All Scottish Farmers? Many were No but please remember our farming communities tend to be very conservative ( small c) and fear change as they have to deal with the ever changing elements already they look for something to rely on, like the gov.
But as you probably saw (could not miss) last Wednesdays train journey, the train used was very prominent farming leader John Cameron’s the ‘Union of South Africa’- who also happens to be a YES voter so we are changing, just give us time we are comming round.
Regarding the BBC battle poll.
I think the BBC have messed up with the question. It asks “what battle changed (us) the most” Surly the Battle of Britain was fought to keep things the same. If “we” had lost then things may have changed somewhat.
And while I am on why the feck was Culloden (the last battle to be fought on British soil) not included? Having said that it would probably have split the Scottish vote.
O/T.
Laura C untsberg Bbc news editor, same as the old Bbc news editor Nick Robertson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=XHGDDMAP5qU&app=desktop
Good on Dennis, they,ll now be editing & adding in their comments in the studio.
I heard a caller on radio who wanted to change back to Labour,but seems to forget that even if all Scots voted for him,all England won’t,and like it or lump it,the Tories will be back. He seems to not even have the support of his own party mandarins. Even other Labour leaders stood by while the mainstream media went at it and even took part against him.
Labour voters must now all return to the fold and be saved by Englands latest offering which will definitely save them from the “NEXT TIME”
Is that it then, is that the Pitch
Labour voters have always been loyal to the point of ridiculousness but this latest Corbynaphobia is no different to any Labour leader of the past who achieved the same as the one before, English votes
Did Scotland improve? did it fun,
If Labour voters in Scotland fall for this yet again then maybe we are better off being Serfs of England because we would have shown we’re incapable of learning anything and incapable of running our own Country due to the excess of slow learners
I’m not a politician so I don’t have to be conciliatory
in order to win over a Nation full of Alex Rowley clones
or Neil Finlay school of geniuses
Somebody stop me!!
@ Nana 10.24. You beat me tae it.
@ manandboy yer rite Nana is ah Wee Ferret, she wear the Hinternet oot before long lol.
I dread the whole thing.
Well dont. BBC’s attacked SNP Holyrood for a decade, 56 SNP MP’s Westminster despite all their efforts. So BBC Scotland monster Sturgeon SNP out of office in Holyrood, get SLab back up to 40 odd MP’s from the heartland region?
Ain’t never going to happen in a million BBC right to reign over you years. Best chance Pacific quay creepshow have, is getting Sturgeon out of office and maybe halving 56 SNP in Westminster, and it will take them a ukok decade at least.
A decade is a long time in UKOK politics:D
msean says:
15 September, 2015 at 10:44 am
I heard a caller on radio who wanted to change back to Labour,but seems to forget that even if all Scots voted for him,all England won’t,and like it or lump it,the Tories will be back. He seems to not even have the support of his own party mandarins. Even other Labour leaders stood by while the mainstream media went at it and even took part against him.
Probably a plant. The oldest trick in the book.
Hahaha Ronnie, going to need a new computer soon, this one’s smoking.
I’ll call it a day when I see flames and I’ve a bucket ready just in case!
Dave McEwan Hill
I would imagine that Corbyn’s republicanism will put the wind up the Proudscotbuts.
The Proudscots will find themselves painted into a corner the way things are going and it will be a very uncomfortable corner, with unsavoury fellow travellers.
The Union and the idea of the Union is starting to look like a very narrow, nasty version of a Totalitarian monarchy, with a Casino economy and poverty stricken underclass propping up the elite (as if we are not there already).
When you have Her Majesties official opposition being lead by a man who doesn’t exactly match the Union version of Union Jack waving-Jigoistic-Man/Woman, it does start to look like the next several months are going to be decidedly uncomfortable and confusing for the Proudscots.
It’s difficult to call which way the wind will be blowing in 6 months. It’s going to be fun to watch.
@manandbuy
I wish to apologise for my bad tempered rant. It was wrong and I regret it
I sometimes think, if only we were Independent, redirecting the energy we are spending trying to become Independent and the energy they are using trying to stop us being Independent, Scotland would be the most energetic country in the world.
@msean
Has all the stench of Astroturfing .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
I don’t buy into the Corbyn mania. His double standards on Ireland and Scotland are self evident but then most English folk I suspect would gladly ditch subsidy junkie NI and its basket case politicals as presented by the Brit Nat Press and Media. The Irish Protestants are on their own but are still too many of them who are too busy trailing their knuckles to see it.
Oh and on the Referendum financing the bottom line is that Yes was outspent by dirty foreign money and will be outspent again next time round by even more dirty foreign money. Does anybody seriously think that wont happen, smell the coffee people.
@manandboy 9.03
There was always a majority in Ireland for independence but the overwhelming military might of (evel) Empire and the history of repeated failed rebellions made Home Rule look more achievable.
Colonial Ireland was a highly militarized sectarian Anglican state that would have made the objectives ISIS Caliphate look most attractive by comparison. Bans on everything from Education, practice of religion, ownership of land, representation in Parliament and totally arbitrary justice.
The massive shock of the 1798 rebellion triggered the British Government to force an Act of Union in 1801 and wrest control of Ireland from the Anglican Aristocracy.
This facilitated Daniel O’Connell’s mass movement up to the 1830’s to operate under British rather than Colonial law where it would have been banned, forcing the UK Government to concede the right of Catholics to be MP’s. Thereafter the focus of Irish (UK) Parliamentary politics up to the 1st world war was on what could actually be achieved in the circumstances. in Ireland was threefold;
1. Increasing the franchise for the UK Parliament to undermine the Tories and aristocracy including anti-slavery, anti Jewish laws and rolling back laws against non-Anglicans like Presbyterian marriages not being recognised , access to education, opposition to Tithes etc etc in coalitions with what became the Liberals
2. Land Reform to return land to Catholics and Presbyterians – consistently opposed by the Lords for decades – but the 3rd Land reform bill by 1914 allowed almost all land to be purchased by tenants off the Anglo land-owning class.
Unlike Scotland there were still large numbers of people on the land to buy it as widespread low-level agrarian guerrilla warfare over many decades had lessened the impact of clearances similar to the Highlands – even today in Scotland land reform has not been achieved, and even if it was – the land would have to be re-settled in many areas as it is devoid of the millions of people that used to live there. .
3. Home Rule. Independence was out of the question given the military might of the British state. Independence for Ireland would trigger problems all around the (evel)) Empire – and in the end this transpired to be the case
Even so, all the Irish parliamentary leaders still ended up in jail at one stage or another. The Republican tradition based on the US and French revolutions continued strongly in the background ( eventually boosted in the failed rebellion after the Great Famines via the Fenians) and could be used as a foil for concessions from the UK Government by what eventually became the first organised political party in the UK the IIP or Irish Parliamentary Party.
By 1914, the IIP had effectively held the balance of power in the UK parliament for many decades and the worst excesses of colonialism were slowly being overcome. ‘Working the system’ was something that had proved effective. The space created by reforms of the previous decades allowed new voices to emerge as in the suffragettes and in the Labour movement.
Non-Republican Irish parliamentary leaders led by Redmond in 1914 had a vision of a route to independence that looked similar to that taken by Canada – slowly educating the British Establishment and letting the slide become inevitable – keeping the Crown, in what would be the Commonwealth etc etc – a bit like the SNP.
Even so the IIP persuaded over 180,000 members of the Irish Volunteers to join up and fight in the War in the belief that Ireland needed large numbers of militarily trained people after the 1st World Ward to defend Home Rule from the Tories and Unionists dominated by the aristocratic class and using sectarianism and a British Army dominated by Unionsits.
There is little doubt that this approach would have succeeded, and possibly avoided the division of Ireland.
The real catalyst for a ‘short cut’ to independence was the first world war. This shook the huge empires that ruled Europe at this time and the irony of Britains declared objective in fighting for the freedom of small nations was not lost in Ireland.
The Republican rebellion and subsequent guerrilla war appeared to offer a short-cut to independence and was aided and abetted by the usual stupidity of English politicians dependent on an English media for information.
The suspension of the Home Rule Bill, the mutiny at the Curragh, attempts to introduce conscription, the role of media barons in undermining the IIP in Ireland while its leaders fought in the trenches and a mis-handling of every step in Ireland up to the 1918 elections all facilitated the short cut.
While my family was involved in the Fenian / Republican route to independence, it is possible to see with the benefit of hindsight that that IIP route would probably been a lot better, and would have given a clear route for a Scottish Home Rule Bill to have progressed from the 1920’s onwards.
As to your point as to why the Unionist brigade in Scotland seems to be led by large number of people with what would have been regarded as Irish Nationalist names – it’s probably a combination of the need for immigrants in any society to ‘belong’ allied to small ‘c’ conservatism (often with an economic social conscience) that pervades Catholicism in any country.
Radio 4 morning show had a 5 minute slot yesterday on how Corbyn will win Scotland as a prelude to having any chance of winning a UK election – I forgot to complain – think I will put the kettle on and give them a ring now – pointing out that electoral evidence shows that Labour has to win in England to win the election.
No mention of the Slab being dominated by Blairites and how supportive Kezia (?) had been of the Corbyn campaign either
Ultimately, its up to BBC and co to make sure you believe Westminster is better at everything than Holyrood. SLabour Scots.gov under Kezia could be anything from slash and burn to massive tax hikers like Britnats rage at Holyrood for not er hiking.
So, Gideon is a financial genius, austerity is good for you and good for teamGB, and anyone can fart out super duper outlooks
http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/July-2015-EFO-234224.pdf
Real toryboy world, national debt goes up and up and up, and they cant let go of their Scotland region either.
http://www.debtbombshell.com/
While families queue at foodbanks…
https://archive.is/VafJs
Who’s paying for this while Westminster cuts funding for renewables in Scotlands. Their intention is to asset strip Scotland before we leave.
I do believe they want a revolution
End of life care in Scotland is BAD which means in an Independent Scotland it will be ten times worse or maybe even worser than that and it’s awful because the Scottish Government is only throwing money at it and that’s definitely not enough
Sturgeon must act
She doesn’t care and that’s why our caring wonderful health service is BAD
How do they get away with this stupid puerile shit, it’s almost an art form in the deception of the slow to insult the SNHS and praise the SNHS at the same time but blame the SNP
To top it all off they have the phone in from poor and terribly distressed relatives to air their sad and sometimes tortuous experiences
Because they know nobody is going to phone in who had a great time, it’s disgusting and offensive broadcasting to deliberately tear at peoples sadness to create a political agenda
What makes the BBC even more disgusting on this type of broadcasting is the presence of the political journalist who then readily espouses his or her opinion as if were FACT when they are not part of the Government, they are not part of the health service
The only thing they’re a part of is the BBC so in fact they’re opinion is only as valid as the rest of us
They exist to disseminate the truth and recreate it into BBC speak to confuse the unswitched on listener or viewer
Ooh, I must be in a bad mood today
@ Chic Macgregor, well noticed the Aberlemno slight of hand!
@ Nana, thanks once again!
Anent the battles, Bruce’s forgotten Battle of Old Byland in Yorkshire, 14 Oct’ 1322, the Scots knocked the English off the top of the un-assailable Sutton Bank, try taking a caravan up it!
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Old_Byland
The king would have well aquainted with that neck of the woods as his ancestors were prominent landowners in Yorkshire, all you can see from Queensborough Topping was once theirs apparently.
http://history-tourist.com/gisborough-priory/
LIVE: Yanis Varoufakis to discuss alternatives to austerity in London
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4219&v=HJXqqL9t9kg
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/tuc-backs-day-of-action-against-trade-union-bill-11364003885692
Got my hills mixed up folks, that should be Roseberry Topping,
http://www.debrustrail.org/guisborough.html
gordoz says: 14 September, 2015 at 1:20 pm in answer to @ Al-Stuart – ‘Roderick James Nugent Stewart’ – Looks like that’s Penrith and the Border Tory / Rory Stewart MP OBE
Thanks for that Gordo. Well done, very well sleuthed. I wouldn’t have put 2 and 2 together and gotten that result. On closer examination of Companies House documents, Cumbria Broadband Rural and Community Projects Ltd., director Rory Stewart has his date of birth is 3 January 1973 – same as the MP. So there is little doubt you have correctly identified the person handling this large donation.
This is one of the excellent things about WoS, you learn the facts about so much.
My question now is why nobody in the media has spotted Rory The Tory has apparently donated £65,921 to the NO campaign through what, on paper is a barely solvent company?
Also, not that I would want to suggest anything untoward, but as Rory The Tory has chosen to AVOID PERSONALLY donating the money himself and opting to funnel a donation to the No Campaign through a virtual shell company, he has obscured what requires to be an open and transparent process.
Rory Stewart attends the the Bilderberg Group meetings, which in turn have been criticised for their lack of transparency and accountability. So little surprise that Rory is seemingly so secretive about where money for political campaigns comes from.
Heaven forbid Rory The Tory ends up in a búrach akin to that which assisted in the end Wendy Alexander’s (remember her?) career…
https://archive.is/p5P3I
Any inquisitive journalist from the Sunday Herald or National – PLEASE can you have a focus on exactly where the £65,921 that Rory Stewart MP had funnelled through his shell company came from?
It would be really interesting, in fact of proper public interest to know EXACTLY where the £65,921 from this member of parliament originated.
Open government and all that jazz. Or is Rory exempt from accountability?
Mr Enright: great post.
The evil empire has had so long to perfect its tactics, hasn’t it?
May The Force be with us.
@Thepnr
Well said!
PS:
Hmm! Easy for him to say now.
https://archive.is/4iE9G
UPDATE: BBC Best British Battle battle:
Bannockburn has forged ahead again at 28%. However, this poll happens to coincide with many celebrations of the Battle of Britain (trailing at 24%). Prince Harry will be joining a flypast today as it is also his birthday!
” Tuesday’s flypast and service are being held on Battle of Britain Day – the name given to the day, on 15 September 1940″.
That should ensure lots of publicity.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34250794
So here’s the link again for anyone who hasn’t yet voted. It’s in the England section of the BBC News site. Where else would one put a feature on BRITISH battles?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
@ Cadogan Enwright, an excellent post, how Ulster Protestants can believe nonsense like William of Orange gave them their Freedom, Religion & Laws is ludicrous.
Anent Britain’s greatest battle.
The BBC obviously hasn’t counted the “postal votes”yet. I still expect the final three (in no particular order) to be: Battle of Britain, Spanish Armada and the Battle of Hastings.
The London Establishment, whatever branch, has form on this. I remember when they finally got the new Wembley almost finished, the FA ran a competition to decide who would have a statue in their honour outside the stadium.
The Tartan Army played a blinder and when the public vote closed, Jim Baxter was well-ahead.
The statue is of Bobby Moore!!
Nana Smith
The national grid must be using those inflated generation charges they are using to cripple the Scottish energy industry to beautify their national parks down there.
Another example of ‘pooling and sharing’. Was reading on the Experts thread last night and the generation tariff for Scotland averages out at £20/kW whilst the North lancashire and the lakes is £7.73 /kW (the second highest zonal rate in England, behind only the North East).
Aye- the Scots are a generous people indeed with all the sharing we’ve been doing over the years
Is it just me, or given the earlier post about Rory The Tory’s lack of transparency in his handling of a £65,921 donation to the NO campaign, that the fact this MP has….
Received a £10,100 donation for his “stonewalling”
…both ironic and hillarious in equal measures 🙂
Source: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24964/rory_stewart/penrith_and_the_border
Thepnr says:
“I wish to apologise for my bad tempered rant. It was wrong and I regret it”
Now THAT is a man talking! Kudos Alex.
“YouGov poll has found that only 9% of respondents believe that “the Vow” …. has been ‘delivered completely’.”
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/sep/only-9-scots-say-vow-kept
The best part of this finding is it implies pulling the wool over Scots’ eyes isn’t as easy as it was!
Concensus seems to be that there has been a 5% increase in Yes support in 12 months. I hope that trend continues! 5% year on year will certainly do the trick.
As at 13.37 Bannockburn 28% and BOB at 24%.
Setback?
Good old Beeb. Tossers.
Thepnr says: at 11:45 am
Thank you Thepnr – I am of course delighted to accept your apology. May I also apologise to you personally for my ‘surprised and disappointed’ comment as well as for what I said later.
Religion, Aaargh
How many times, a creation of man to deceive other men into subordination to a mythical Super Being who’s existence could not be proven
This system went global, with the inventions of many Deities and rituals to be observed in order to achieve ultimate happiness after you have the need for it
Largely in Western societies today these observations are dwindling due to education and science
Hope, good, Faith, good
Blind belief in unprovable Super Beings, Really?
The priests have been replaced over the years by politicians who do exactly the same job the priests did
(Believe in me and all will be well) We know how that turns out
Wonder what the next invention of man will be to fool other men (Women too, But strangely not so much)
I’m definitely in a funny mood today
Child poverty debate 2.30pm
http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/a494825a-0727-48ce-9520-f6b30654dddb
Cadogan Enright @ 11:59
I always enjoy your post, Cadogan, but your post above was particularly worth reading.
regards – Chris
Just listened to a very moving programme on Radio Scotland exploring the aftermath of the referendum.
It was fair and dealt critically with operation fear. If even five minutes of this level of journalism was broadcast before the referendum we would have won. Still gutted!
Nana @ 12.16
https://archive.is/VafJs
Aye,and we get the massive Pylons on the Beauly to Denny Line, despite public outcry / objections.
Usual Scotland region doesn’t exist day UKOK media wise although hammer of the Scots JK Rowling gets special mention in rancid Graun today for boosterising BBC. Can’t think why
A host of public figures, including JK Rowling, Chris Evans and Daniel Craig, has written to the prime minister warn against major cuts to the BBC.
Cuts to BBC diminish their Britain and massive pay cheques.
Sorry meant to add.
At the Beauly side ie wee village of Balblair,folk are having massive “Noise” problems.
To my knowledge are still not resolved.
Is it just me, or does it feel like the ‘Indy Ref 2’ campaign has started, more specifically ‘Project Fear 2’.
Oh no, wrong again, Libby Carrell’s found a smear Scotland thing, at least 3 per week from rancid.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/15/labour-for-independence-scottish-referendum-fined-for-breaking-spending-rules
They were ferociously monstered for a whole Gordon Brewer says vote NO or else show, with some SLabour henchman on news-night Scotland BBC style, when they tried to get going. Such is BBC’s charming relationship with democracy in their Scotland region.
May I thank Ken 500 ; galamcennalath ; Dave McEwan Hill and Cadogan Enright for their terrific comments and posts on matters Irish and the Referendum. I am not at all a history buff but I cannot escape the Irish influence, mainly, but not only, through my wife – and the world in which we personally live in.
Completely off topic!
I apologize for this Rev but….
My 83 year old mum is walking round strathclyde park on Saturday in aid of Alzheimer’s scotland, actually that’s not the story, she is fitter than me and I am only 50! But she has worked in the NHS all her life as a Midwife and Sister, Labour all her days she has recently converted to the cause, I said the yes camp are nicer people, If you would like you can support her here, http://www.justgiving.com/owner-email/pleasesponsor/Margaret-McLean5
Apologies again if this is not the place, and for shamelessly hijacking the Revs webpage! But she’s my mum!
@JLT: I never knew that [website, http://theweebluebook.com] existed!
Well, it was blasted out on Twitter as much as possible during the campaign, and even had its own Facebook page, http://facebook.com/weebluebook (8,285 likes, including 1 from last week!)
Was also linked, of course, via the Wings WBB page, http://wingsoverscotland.com/weebluebook/ as “Read the wee blue book as a website”
🙂
@Nana Smith says: 15 September, 2015 at 12:16 pm:
“https://archive.is/VafJs
Who’s paying for this while Westminster cuts funding for renewables in Scotlands. Their intention is to asset strip Scotland before we leave.”
I was going to write a comment upon this, Nana Smith, but I do believe you have answered your own question in your comment.
Scots have been paying for English infrastructure for as long as I can remember. Here’s one of the first big examples that I remember angering me at the time.
Here is a timeline of the building of the M6 that illustrates the way we Scots are treated : –
Dec 1958 J29-32 Preston Bypass
Apr 1960 J33-35 Lancaster Bypass
Aug 1962 J13-14 Stafford Bypass
Nov 1962 J15-16 Hanchurch ? Barthomley
Dec 1962 J14-15 Stafford Bypass ? Hanchurch
Jul 1963 J20-29 Warrington ? Preston
Nov 1963 J16-20 Barthomley ? Warrington
Jan 1965 J32-33 Preston ? Lancaster
Mar 1966 J11-13 Shareshill ? Dunston
Sep 1966 J10-11 Darlaston ? Shareshill
Nov 1968 J40-41 Penrith Bypass
Nov 1968 J9-10 Bescot ? Darlaston
Apr 1970 J8-9 Ray Hall ? Bescot
Jul 1970 J7-8 Great Barr ? Ray Hall
Oct 1970 J35-40 Lancaster ? Penrith
Dec 1970 J42-44 Carlisle Bypass
Feb 1971 J4-5 Maxstoke ? Bromford
Jul 1971 J2-4 Ansty ? Maxstoke
Jul 1971 J41-42 Penrith ? Carlisle
Nov 1971 J0-2 Catthorpe ? Ansty
Nov 1971 J5-6 Bromford ? Gravelly Hill
May 1972 J6-7 Gravelly Hill ? Great Barr
Dec 2008 J44-45 Carlisle ? Gretna
The point being how it was so irritating over all those years driving the main cross-border route to note the sudden change of wide multi-lane highway at Gretna onto the apology for, (the still inadequate,), A74(M), that is hardly even a decent dual carriageway even yet.
Anything that was built in Scotland was grudged, rushed and totally inadequate. I also watched the M90 being built and warned then what was subsequently found to be the truth. It was called a motorway but did not even have hard shoulders until much later. Not only that but the predicted drainage problems are still not really satisfactory.
We pay the same tax rates but have always had a second class, back of the queue, return for them. This is just one more example of how we Scots are regarded by the Establishment. Scots are last to get anything from roads, rail, airways to Radio, TV and decent internet speeds.
Yet on a per capita basis the Scots pay more tax than any other country in this abusive United Kingdom.
@ Nana 1.58 More gum rattlin in a committee room.
Ian Murray MP supports the Scottish Fire And Rescue Service and Police Scotland
..paying VAT unlike England and Wales where emergency services do not pay vAT.
Labour MP for Edinburgh South does the opposite of Denis Skinner MP who DID vote against the Scottish services paying VAT. So what is the purpose for the Secretary of State for Scotland and his shadow? Grrrrrrrrrrrr!
I love this website.
Cadogan Enright
Enlightening post,I didn’t realise that presbyterianism was penalised in Ireland. You learn something every day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)
@Robert Peffers Aye Robert I did know. That timeline for the M6 is an eye opener. Thanks you!
As Tam says at 1.21pm
Aye- the Scots are a generous people indeed with all the sharing we’ve been doing over the years
Seems to be the way they take and take again and give Scotland back poverty.
@Tackety Beets I did not know about Balblair noise pollution. I’m assuming noise levels have been recorded and sent to whichever dept deals with these issues. Sepa maybe or council health & safety?
Harry gives up his seat for WWII veteran Tom Neil to take a trip in a BoB spitfire. The other spitfire had developed a fault and was grounded. Of course he did.
PS
In the Battle of battles, Bannockburn hanging on in there with a 28% to 24% lead on BoB. The link removed from the BBC Scotland page yesterday but still up on the UK England page. Good old auntie!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081
PPS:
Footie link for later:
Lots of choice I’m for Aberdeen v Hamilton
http://myp2p.ec/
@
@Fred says: 15 September, 2015 at 12:35 pm:
” … Anent the battles, Bruce’s forgotten Battle of Old Byland in Yorkshire, 14 Oct’ 1322, the Scots knocked the English off the top of the un-assailable Sutton Bank, try taking a caravan up it!
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Old_Byland
The king would have well aquainted with that neck of the woods as his ancestors were prominent landowners in Yorkshire, all you can see from Queensborough Topping was once theirs apparently.
http://history-tourist.com/gisborough-priory
Great Post, Fred, Not many Scots even know there was such a battle. Here is a very brief reference : –
In 1322, after Edward II’s victory at Boroughbridge in March 1322 Edward was encouraged to undertake another campaign against the Scots in the same summer. He first besieged Berwick without success and retreated pursued by Robert Bruce.
While the English king was at Rievaulx abbey, Bruce’s men attacked over the hills from Northallerton. After dispersing the royal rearguard at Old Byland on 14 October
Edward escaped to York. So the proud king of England was in full flight in his own country and this must have been vey mortifying for the king of England and his whole, three country, kingdom.
So now you all know why the Battle of Byland, a.k.a. Old Byland or Byland’s Ridge is forgotten and never really mentioned even in Scottish Schools or higher educational establishments.
@ Nana & Tackety Beets, noise levels from the substations are indeed monitored. The pylon furore was overblown nonsense, the new replacements don’t look that different from those taken down and re-routing has taken place where possible. Undergrounding that length of line would be astronomically expensive & it has to be said that white-settlers have been been amongst the most voiciferous objectors.
Some self-appointed transport guru named Burns was never off the box objecting to the A9 cameras, another song & dance about nothing. Burns has now popped up again objecting to The A9 dualling schedule. A nobody elected by nobody, who is this arsehole? The A9 improvements would be much further forward if the peeps along its length hadn’t voted for tossers like Danny Alexander & Co who insisted on the cash going to the Edinburgh tram fiasco.
@Andrew McLean
Hijack away Andrew, a most worthy cause. I wish your Mum well and hope she has a wonderful day.
Andrew McLean-donated
Fred says:
15 September, 2015 at 3:33 pm
@ Nana
Never mind the trams at least the money was spent in Scotland
Now Scotlands contribution to CrossRail that’s the problem
@Ronnie I’m sure the tories will be sabre rattling soon.
@Fred, yes I thought the noise levels would be monitored.
As for Danny boy what can I say other than, he’s a boot licker and for the life of me I can not fathom who would vote and did vote for him.
I had words with another useless lib dem mp on the very subject, needless to say he did not agree with me re Danny boy. I knew he wouldn’t as the uselss boot licker title same applied to him!
Thanks friends for your kind donations!
Fred,
don’t forget the statements from, of all organizations,
the Institute of Advanced Motorists, complaining of the lowering of the drink driving legislation in line with Europe, As a safety professional and Brake (road safety charity ambassador) I was shocked at the obvious political statement, why on Gods Earth he should make such a statement? Guess what he has a OBE, order of the brown erase!
So from the mouth piece of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, stuff it if it lowers accidents, which it did! but SNP BADDD!
Thanks friends for your kind donations!
Fred,
don’t forget the statements from, of all organizations,
the Institute of Advanced Motorists, complaining of the lowering of the drink driving legislation in line with Europe, As a safety professional and Brake (road safety charity ambassador) I was shocked at the obvious political statement, why on Gods Earth he should make such a statement? Guess what he has a OBE, order of the brown erase!
So from the mouth piece of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, stuff it if it lowers accidents, which it did! but SNP BADDD!
Thanks friends for your kind donations!
Fred,
don’t forget the statements from, of all organizations,
the Institute of Advanced Motorists, complaining of the lowering of the drink driving legislation in line with Europe, As a safety professional and Brake (road safety charity ambassador) I was shocked at the obvious political statement, why on Gods Earth he should make such a statement? Guess what he has a OBE, order of the brown erase!
So from the mouth piece of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, stuff it if it lowers accidents, which it did! but SNP BADDD!
Robert Peffers, I have a scene playing in my mind (such as it is) of you phoning into Call Me Kay(e) with all this motorway research for her to turn into James Sanderson and say, “So, what’s your point, caller?”
We pay the most in p.c. and get a third-class service but that’s pooling and sharing, I suppose. I’m sure all the Ruaridh Proudscot-Butts are pwoud, weally, weally pwoud.
Warning to call me dave: Paula Rose doesn’t like us mentioning fitba’ on the main threads. She’ll be on in a minute going on about men in tight shorts, goad save us, or threatening to spank you.
Dive! Dive! Dive!
Folks, the reason Scotland and Wales has such poor infrastructure compared to England is because the railways and motorways are designed to carry people to London, not the other way round. You’re not supposed to travel in the direction from south to north, the best of us are meant to be driving the economy of London and SE, not Glasgow or Swansea. It’s been like that for decades since Scotland and Wales were under managed decline.
The Tories today want to continue that with HS2, get the brains to the SE as quickly as their degrees have dried. The ‘northern powerhouse’ rhetoric is a distant Plan B if they can’t get HS2 off the ground. The brain drain has cost Scotland dearly and the Westminster politicians know this very well as it has worked to the British State’s advantage, especially the cause for unionism.
For absolute parity and us all being in it together.
If the Government are successful in only supporting a fist and second child for benefits then the same logic should be applied to The Royal Family to only support the Monarch and two siblings. The rest should be treated the same as the just as important poorest of our society.
@Capella says: 15 September, 2015 at 12:57 pm:
” … ” Tuesday’s flypast and service are being held on Battle of Britain Day – the name given to the day, on 15 September 1940?.
While not wishing to detract from a really heroic and selfless moment in history, this present, Establishment led, BBC propaganda exercise is utter bullshit.
In the same referred to article they claim, “Britain Stood alone”, but later point out that 20% of the crews were non-Britons. In fact the crack Spitfire Squadron for both, “Kills”, and for the loss of Spitfire pilots, were Polish. Not only that but the BBC usually confuses the actual, “Battle of Britain”, with the much longer, “Blitz”, which they also tend to concentrate on only London. Try telling that to Clydebank, Coventry or indeed many other English towns and cities.
There is also the media myth that Britons moral was high and they all pulled-together. Here’s truth in Germany Hitler provided safe deep shelters – the UK Establishment belatedly provided Anderson Shelters and also ordered the people NOT to use the Tube Stations as shelters. The people defied the government and the government were forced to give in.
In fact the actual Battle of Britain was at very most a month long. Many think of it as one day called, “The Longest Day”. Hitler’s idea was to bomb the RAF airfields to negate the RAF before invading Britain.
When he found that the RAF were a more formidable force than he had thought he began to, “Blitz”, British Cities. This is why the actual end of the, “Battle of Britain”, is hard to identify and the start of the Blitz to began.
Giving Goose @11:36am
A classic sign of an empire’s demise, is that public institutions which have evolved to represent social and cultural attitudes, turn inwards so only see their own values and are unable to represent anyone but themselves. This leaves the remaining proudScot UKOK Unionists looking increasingly like a CARGO CULT, grasping vainly to a dream of a One Nation Britain that does not and has never existed.
Fred , Nana and Robert
I perhaps rushed the post.
Yes,my understanding is that the Noise is being monitored but there are problems ongoing trying to rectify the noise issues involved. I was lead to understand many, inc some costly avenues have been explored etc etc and as yet not rectified to the satisfaction of the locals.
My info is a few months out of date. I must get an update.
I agree Fred the new Pylons are not as bad as the objectors implied.They are a bit larger but hence further apart so less of them etc etc .We are on the same page.
Ref Mike Burns , agreed, he faffed and blustered about the Cameras and now the dual of A9.
I did pm him on FB,explaining the 2007 decision on Trams spending instead of dual of A9.
Happy to report he did not reply.
I thought Keith Brown was excellent last week when he said “well all these objectors who feel our timescale is too long, step forward with their proposals as how it can be done quicker and we(SNP)will be glad to listen” Silence , well done KB.
Thats what we want to hear.
No more Mr Nice Guy ……a feel a song cumin on !
Many moons ago, I remember deciding to nip to Edinburgh via the newly opened M90.I thought it was great zipping along on ma Honda until I realised I still had my “L” plates on.I couldna get aff and was shocked to find a motorway with no hard shoulder.
I tried to post this already to no avail …. maybe too long, lol, so have cut out a few comments such as relating to manandboy’s C Austin-Fitts video on the New World Order.
A George Kerevan article in yesterdays National. Well worth a read.
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/george-kerevan-we-created-the-middle-east-crisis-and-airstrikes-wont-solve-it.7526
Well we’re now getting the Battle of Britain stuffed down our throats. Week after week of ‘English Triumphalism’. Anyone get the feeling that they’re trying to buck the English up, invigorate English Nationalism or convince us all that we are ‘Better Together’?
I’m not trying to detract from the skill, bravery and sacrifice that these men (and women) had / made but I get totally p*ssed off with films, documentaries and the latest news portraying the Battle of Britain as being won by individuals who talk with a stiff upper lip. Now and again (in films) they include some wee, half-sozzled Scotsman.
Will the Scot, Eric Brown, get a mention? ‘Captain ‘Winkle’ Brown: Is he the greatest pilot ever?’
‘’Eric was the first person to fly a jet off and onto an aircraft carrier and set records that still haven’t been broken, and aren’t likely to be broken.’’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22254048
And what about the Polish pilots who were said, when you dig deeply enough into the archives, to have totally turned the Battle of Britain around (flying Hurricanes) and thus prevented an invasion. Portrayed as being rebellious madcaps when in fact they highlighted that the RAF formations weren’t working as per the recorded loss of life / planes shot down prior to them joining the fray.
‘Battle of Britain: It wasn’t just a British victory … About 20 per cent (of pilots) were not British ………. Of the TOP ten RAF aces of the Battle of Britain fighter pilots, who claimed the most kills, five were not British.
http://www.channel4.com/news/five-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-battle-of-britain
‘The Polish 303 Squadron became a highly successful unit. It destroyed more Luftwaffe aircraft than any other Hurricane equipped squadron …….. By the time the Battle of Britain had ended, the Poles had shot down around 20% of all Luftwaffe aircraft. One Polish pilot, Witold Urbanowicz, was one of just a few Battle of Britain pilots credited as a ‘Triple Ace’ – with 15 ‘kills’ to his name.’
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/world-war-two-in-western-europe/battle-of-britain/polish-pilots-in-the-battle-of-britain/
The Poles suffered terribly during WW11 but during that time continued to work on behalf of their allies and contributed greatly to winning the War. The following are examples:
Enigma Code / Machine: ‘’The single largest contribution made by the Poles to the Allied was in the initial breaking of the German Enigma code and presenting both the French and British with a complete working machine and all the documentation needed to continue working on the German codes. This act of generosity carried out in July 1939 was never reciprocated either by the British or the French. Neither were the Polish Enigma code breakers allowed to work at Bletchley to carry on the work which they had invented.’’ (in fact many went on to be tortured (divulged nothing at all) and killed).
Inventions: Devised / invented new and better equipment such as bomb release gear which was mass produced by Vickers Armstrong, radio equipment and a mine detector which was subsequently used by the British Army.
Military Intelligence: Gen. Kroner, Deputy Chef of US Military Intelligence stated that ‘’The Polish Army has the best intelligence in the world. Its value for us is priceless. Unfortunately, we cannot offer much in return.”
When the War ended they were treated abysmally by the US and UK with Churchill agreeing (with Stalin) to ‘hand’ Poland over to the Russians. This state of affairs, being further exposed to terror and murder, lasted from 1945 until 1989.
‘Poland the 4th largest and most loyal of allies was not invited to march in the London Victory Parade in 1946.’ The ONLY ally to be banned from the parade and that included the Polish pilots being excluded from flying in the flypast over the parade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdetBvnjSHA
They’re still being treated abysmally by being used as scapegoats by this Government and the Media even as research findings show that they are the most hardworking group of people in the UK. They are also not unlike the Scots …. known to be kind, compassionate, loyal and brave.
I’m posting this more than anything because there’s a close-up of one of my relatives in this video (young and extremely handsome). I love him to bits and I’m extremely proud of him: Not because he’s in the military but because he’s a most decent individual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0TrrPaMR2A
At the London Victory Parade in 1946, “Apart from the USSR, only Poland and Yugoslavia were not represented among our Allies……” June 15, 1946 The Illustrated London News.