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Incompetence and lies

Posted on April 26, 2017 by

We’ve never tried to put a precise breakdown on how much of the falsehood pumped out daily by the Scottish political media is due to deliberately misleading spin and how much of it is simply due to journalists who are really, really terrible at their jobs.

But there’s plenty of both in today’s Times.

The paper’s #2 Scotland story today, on the Scottish Government’s replacement for stamp duty, took two reporters to write yet at no point actually identifies the “experts” quoted in its own headline. The piece rambles on for almost 700 words without ever providing the names of the people who allegedly used the terms “ill-suited” and “poor” to describe the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (LBTT).

An alert Wings reader managed to track down the source of one of the microquotes to a report in the Scotsman:

“London-based Alma Economics’ study ‘A Review of Tax Revenue Forecasting Models for the Scottish Housing Market’ described the methodology used by ministers as ‘ill-suited for scenario analysis and fiscal impact costing'”

That, however, wasn’t a reference to LBTT itself as a policy, but to the model used to predict how much revenue it would raise. And even the Scotsman couldn’t specify who had used the word “poor” or in what context, so we’re still in the dark on that one.

But then the Times piece got worse. Towards the end it eventually roped in a couple of Some Arsehole types to relate two heart-wrenching case studies of hypothetical woe about the poor innocent victims of the policy.

We know, readers, we know. We can hear your weeping and rending of garments from here over the thought that people buying a SECOND home for £500,000 (more than three times the average Scottish house price) might get landed with a hefty tax bill.

(LBTT purposely penalises second-home purchase in order to reduce taxes for people buying smaller properties to actually live in. The tax on a £500K primary home would be just £23,350 – only £8000 higher than the figure for the rest of the UK.)

So we can chalk that one down to political spin – most people only own one home (at the most), so quoting the much higher tax for a SECOND home is a deliberate attempt to create a misleading impression, and one which is particularly disingenuous when foreign-owned “investment” homes that nobody actually lives in are widely held to be largely responsible for the UK’s housing crisis.

But the Times then moves on from questionable spin to outright lies.

The second quote in the article is clearly a reference to people moving their primary home from the country to the city – we know this because we’re explicitly told they’re selling up their country property. As such, the LBTT on a £750,000 house purchase would be £48,350 rather than “the best part of £70,000”.

That’s £21,000 more than the stamp duty that the buyers would pay in the UK. It’s certainly a significant amount of money, but that’s because it’s supposed to be. The openly-stated point of LBTT, as we’ve noted, is to redistribute the tax burden on house purchases in Scotland from poorer people to wealthier ones.

But what that £21K difference means is that our prospective movers would in effect have to downsize from their £750K country pile to an Edinburgh house worth a measly £729,000. The horror! The humanity! That sort of feeble pittance is only going to get you a miserable six-bedroom, two-bathroom (plus two WCs and an ensuite shower), double-garaged dump in Merchiston, 10 minutes walk from a mainline railway station.

Or this filthy, crumbling five-bed detached hovel in the notorious slum zone between the Meadows and Holyrood Park, with a gated double driveway, two ensuite master bedrooms, a large garden and stained-glass windows.

We don’t know about you, readers, but we’re struggling to hold back the tears. It’s to find the money to reverse this shameful, unfair tax that the Tories (Murdo Fraser is quoted extensively in the story) quite rightly want to claw back child benefit from the greedy working single mothers trousering a juicy £13 a week for their third child.

Now, we’re happy to admit that the absence of the headlined experts from the Times article does provide some support for the theory that the paper’s journalists are merely abominably, almost comically, useless at their jobs. But in the light of the later bits, we’re rather more persuaded by the idea that they’re misinforming Scots on purpose.

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  1. 26 04 17 10:56

    Incompetence and lies | speymouth

262 to “Incompetence and lies”

  1. Proud Cybernat says:

    Whilst thousands across this land are struggling to keep their one and only roof over their heads, these poor loves are having a wee problem keeping that second roof over their heads.


    Colonial MSM journalism at its best.

  2. Muscleguy says:

    I’m glad we have you to pay to read the Times for us Rev. For a start it keeps my blood pressure down. Make sure you go bear patrolling today to rebalance yours.

    A genuine progressive tax change moving the burden from those who can’t pay to those who can. Yet the usual suspects ignore that and try to engender our sympathy for the demonstrably well off.

    A plague on all their houses.

  3. Ian McCubbin says:

    John is my MPS. He is a decent human being working for ordinary folk and Scotland’s best interest.
    He is rightly taxing absentee property owners. I’m some Highland communities up to half houses are holiday homes for rich southerners.
    They should pay to have such a privilege.
    Locals cannot afford such homes and have to pay £600 rent for a 2 bed home.
    Support this tax as it rebalance tax raising to those who can pay.

  4. Marcia says:

    The tax seems to be doing what it was designed for. We don’t want a repeat of the housing crisis that has hit parts of Southern England that cannot be sustained in the long terms as no one can get onto the housing market unless they have rich parents.

  5. McDenster says:

    My heart pumps bright yella pish for the hapless householders bereft of a 2nd Palace. Fine read Rev.

  6. Ken500 says:

    Tax evader £Billionaire Murdoch is not a U.K. citizen and pays no tax in the UK. Yet holds nearly 50% of the UK MSM and is trying to acquire more. Totally illegally. Is illegally supported by the extreme right wing Westminster unionists Parties, who kill and maim children all over the world. Getting the UK into Trns of debt through their wicked agenda. Starving children with abandon.

    Murdoch a criminal and crook who should be in jail for illegally bribing public officials and hacking phones. If there was any justice. The Times is a piece of obscene nonsense. Given over to Murdoch illegally by Thatcher. Harold Evans wrote an article on it, when the papers were released last year. Under the thirty year Secret Act rule. Do the world a favour unsubscribe from SKy. There are plenty of alternative. The world will be a better place when Murdoch is gone.

  7. Macart says:

    I’ve never owned a home in my life. Personally, if I get to the end of a month and pay the bills, put food on a plate for my family and draw breath, I count myself fortunate.

    My heart bleeds for the poor souls… etc. 🙄

  8. Robert Graham says:

    Self respect comes to mind with these articles and the people who produce them ,
    Just imagine how this must affect someone doing this on a daily basis , i suppose a lot of people will do anything for money , there is a name for them and i cant quite remember it .
    Oh yes its a TORY .or the usual description Lying B****ds .

  9. Iain More says:

    My heart really breaks for those who own a second home or multiple homes – not!

    I wont accuse the Imperial Journalists of incompetence, it is just downright bare faced lying they are guilty of.

  10. Betty Boop says:

    Fantastic(al) piece of churnalism from The Times (of London). In the end, it unwittingly gets to the nub of the matter and surely illustrates that any sane person will be right behind this particular piece of tax legislation. Well done, John Swinney – does what it says on the tin.

    I’m trying hard to hold back the tears for the poor so.. souls who are having to scrabble around for more pennies to finance their second mansions.

  11. FIONA TOMANY says:

    The Tories condemn this but in a wile will most likely copy the idea.

  12. Illy says:

    “Tax the rich to feed the poor”

    Isn’t that supposed to be Labour’s purpose?

  13. Iain says:

    Nowadays, the people we call ‘journalists’ have to produce stories, as often as possible, to justify their employment – no day is too devoid of anything of importance or interest to pass without an invented controversy (often described as a ‘row’).

    It’s not really journalism at all: what sort of good journalist – or person – would stoop to that sort of work? And in news organisations opposed to an independent Scotland the story has to be about what a basket case an independent Scotland would be, or how incompetent/dishonest/untrustworthy the SNP is.

  14. Roger Hyam says:

    And the people buying “homes” for £720,000 in Edinburgh South will be loyal Labour voters this time around. So don’t worry Ian Murray will be fighting for their rights against the terrible Nats for another five years pretty soon 🙂

  15. mogabee says:

    It’s heartwarming to know that the wealthy foreign investors have the Times standing up for their interests…

    Would be good to see this LBTT increase too. 😀

  16. David Caledonia says:

    There are countries where you are not allowed to buy property if you are not born in that country, and that is to keep the idle rich from buying up the land that belongs to the people who where actually born there, there is a place where a lot of the people are so poor they are starving, that place is called the Phillipines, you cannot buy any property there if you where not born there, my brother in law lives there , he works with a company called Global Engineering , its a shipping company and he is a chief engineer , well he had a partner called anna, i met her in scotland, she seemed very nice and they set up home together back in the phillipines, my brother in law bill, bought a house , but it had to be in anna’s name, so in actual fact anna owned the house, because bill’s name could not be on the deeds, anyway they broke up, no divorce because they never married, so anna got the house and a little business bill bought for her, so she did ok out of the split, bill met someone else a few years ago and they have a son, so i suppose everything turned out ok in the end as he is a lot happier now, you see he was actually keeping anna’s family as well as her, so he has less expenses now lol, so the scottish government should bring in a law when we get independence that you cannot buy land or property in scotland unless you live and where born here, problem solved, kick the likes of that guy that owns harrods and thinks he is above the laws in scotland back to london where he belongs, because his kind do not contribute anything to scotland, he does not even have a business here, time to show these people and their hunting friends where the door is

  17. heedtracker says:

    “But then the Times piece got worse.” Is all you need really. Sounds like @KenFarq, Murdoch’s smirking Scottish version of Kelvin MacK, he wishes.

    Scotland’s £750+k bracket is gorgeous though. Past Scottish craftsmen built middle class palaces like nothing we’ll ever see again.

  18. Sarah says:

    Rev – would it make a difference if we asked Fiona Hyslop to get the UN/EU/Robert Schuman Foundation to come and monitor the media, as Breeks suggests at 10.01 on the “Faces of shame” thread?

    Like Breeks, I am really frightened at the grip the MSM has on the information available to the electorate.

  19. Legerwood says:

    A story along similar lines appeared in The Herald about 3-4 weeks ago complete with a quote from a rich American who said he was put off buying an expensive property when he found out the cost of the tax – as if!

    An Estate Agent was also quoted saying the tax was harming the market in expensive properties – as if!

    It was not given great prominence in The Herald – no front page Exclusive – so maybe the Times journalists have just found it and recycled it.

    Non-story other than in the fevered imagination of the Tories who are presumably pushing it.

  20. mogabee says:

    And Ken500,right with you about the toxic Murdoch and sky(spit)Won’t have it in my house ever, ever, ever!

  21. Dr Jim says:

    What the Guardian meant to say is
    Scotland should just be the same as England and the SNP have no right to be different and they’re rotten and not Unionist please make them go away and give us back direct English rule so we can be the kind of miserable we used to be

    Just apply this paragraph to all stories about the Baad SNP
    coz we hate them

    The end!

  22. galamcennalath says:

    The Rev says:

    …how much of the falsehood pumped out daily by the Scottish political media is due to deliberately misleading spin and how much of it is simply due to journalists who are really, really terrible at their jobs.

    IMO normally both.

    Invert the logic. How often do make a superb job of reporting a true political story in an accuracy manner? Not very often!

    There isn’t a lot of real journalism going on, and at the same time, there is a lot of conspiracy to mislead. The result is usually utter garbage!

    Perhaps proof is that fewer and fewer people read it, and even fewer believe it.

  23. Andy Ellis says:

    I’m currently planning to make the move home to Edinburgh this autumn, selling the house in Sussex, and will be looking in the very areas highlighted in Stu’s piece above. I have no issue with Swinney’s plans, or the prospect that LBTT “might” cost me a bit more, because I steadfastly believe that those who are in the fortunate position to be able to pay more should do just that. Those who will scream most about this measure will no doubt be those who don’t believe this; the second home owners, speculators, property investors etc., who don’t care about communities or affordable housing or the kind of decent society where the more fortunate want to promote a fairer distribution of wealth via progressive taxation. Such people actually want a Hobbesian war of “all against all” because their wealth insulates them against the negative impacts of such policies.

    From the point of view of someone like me, the effect of LBTT could actually be positive if it results in a decrease in property price inflation in Edinburgh. On many properties that could actually offset any increase in the amount of LBTT tax payable when compared with stamp duty. Even if it doesn’t, it won’t put genuine buyers like me off. If it DOES have the impact described of avoiding the kind of property led bubble which afflicts much of SE England however, it will be well worth it!

  24. Ken500 says:

    Willy Young gets caught out building a £200,000 dyke. Not to mention the £Billion totally, illegal sell off of the City on the Stock exchange. To fund obscene, wasteful useless grotesque projects of no value. Ruining the City Centre. To spite the SNP along with the majority of the citizens. Absolutely appalling. Hopefully now the Police will get called in and the accounts will be fully investigated. The criminals charged and put in jail and prevented from holding public Office, every again. The embezzled funds reimbursed. If only.

  25. heedtracker says:

    David Caledonia says:
    26 April, 2017 at 11:06 am
    There are countries where you are not allowed to buy property if you are not born in that country, and that is to keep the idle rich from buying up the land that belongs to the people who where actually born there, there is a place where a lot of the people are so poor they are starving, that place is called the Phillipines,”

    I refer my honourable friend to a politics blog called Wings over Scotland,

    Scotland’s interesting to compare and contrast because folk have got stacks of cash to blow. I’m from Aberdeen where you can still get a hell of a nice second home for under a million quid. And its now fashionable to buy fine Victorian villas near me, at around a million, demolish them and then rebuild something more to your taste, at double the cost but heydiddlyho.

    ACC like this for all kinds of economics ofcourse. Sir Ian Wood’s execs are big local celeb property spenders for example. One near me bought a Victorian gothic villa for a cool £2+million, demolished it, rebuilt again, at another £2+million.

    If your ever wondering where a Scottish version of at least one of Norway’s several near trillion dollar state pension funds went in Scotland, don’t ask @Kenfarq of the Times.

  26. handclapping says:

    I do wish we could get away from this obsession with your nationality being defined by your place of birth. It is an English idea that makes it easier to determine whose serf you are / to whom you pay taxes. It is also the basis of all blood and soil nationalisms and so the total opposite of our Scottish civic nationalism.

    In theory there is nothing to prevent us setting up Scotland in the Urals. In fact it would be very like home in as much as we would have to contend with another overbearing neighbour!

  27. John says:

    Just a quick point. Properties at offers over 720k are likely to have a final sale price of over 800k. To get a sale price of around 730k I would check out offers over 650k properties.

  28. Liz g says:

    David Caledonia @ 11.06
    I don’t think that you have to go as far as the Philippines David!
    If my memory serves me right….You can’t buy a house on Jersey unless you can demonstrate that you have over a certain amount of savings.
    While I don’t know the exact details,for good or ill a part of these islands regulated to prevent home ownership that for whatever reason did not fit with how the people on Jersey want to organise their life.
    No fuss from the MSM as far as I can see.

    Also Norway has rules along those lines,no exactly sure what they are or what they are designed to do, but the point being that Norway doesn’t have a reputation for being scared of foreigners.

  29. Bob Mack says:

    Should we have a crowdfunder to help the wee souls ? Lol.

  30. Ken500 says:

    The question is how much the rich ‘own’ and how much is mortgaged to the Banks. In England most of the land is owned by pension funds. (Pro rata – higher pop – land density) In Scotland the land is owned by landowners but many are up to their eyes in debt. The land is mortgaged to the banks. Ie If Scotland was Independent. The Banks would be controlled by the Scottish Gov ie along with the land. Many of the landowners in Scotland have land but no money. They acquire money from the banks by mortgaging the land. The deeds are held with the bank.

    Land is exempt from tax to keep farms together. Larger farms produce more food and food products. Much of which is exported bringing in £Billions to Scotland. In most cases it is what is on the land or the production which is of value. Not the land itself. Without planning permission it has less value. Agricultural land is values at £5,000 an acre,according to demand. With planning permission land is valued at £100,000 an acre because 4 or more houses can be built on an acre of land.

    Buyouts by the Scottish Gov and communities have brought back more land than was cleared in Scotland. There could be more buy backs undertaken. Scotland was depopulated by Westminster centrist economic policies. Concentrated on London S/E. Creating the concerning North/South divide of inequality and unfairness. Deliberately hidden under the Official Secrets Act. Accounts etc.

    Companies are licensed by UK. Companies Act. Foreign or British owners are supposed to follow the same rules /Laws. This is not the case as the UK Gov does not uphold Company Law. HMRC is not fit for purpose. The UK Gov allows and sanctions foreign multinationals paying no tax in the UK. This discriminates against British business. It is illegal does not support equal and fair trade, which is guaranteed under UK Law. Westminster Unionists make the Law and break the Law. It is really important for Scotland to stay in the EU for human rights Law enshrined in Devolution and or Independence. To stand up to Westminster hegemony.

  31. Marie Clark says:

    Oh dear, my heart bleeds for these poor souls, NOT.

    Where I live in Dumfries & Galloway we have a lot of second homes owned mostly be people south of the border.They are only here maybe for about six weeks in the year and the odd weekend. The strange thing is, they do seem to think that they have an inordinate right, to dictate to the locals what we can and can’t do in oor ain area and communities. If planning permission is required for some local venture, you can bet your bottom dollar that they’re all getting their complaints in against whatever it might be. Locals cannot buy property because we are a low wage area, council or affrodable housing is difficult to acquire. Private rents are riduculous, so if LBTT can put a stop to all this nonsense well good, I’m all for it.

    I’m so sick of the MSM at the moment I’ve just had to step away for a bit or my head might explode. Maybe it is time to bring in the UN to monitor what is going on.

  32. David says:

    and next it will be used as an authoritative source for a BBC news report to use up space that might otherwise have to be given to the tax credit / rape clause story or some other anti tory news.

  33. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Rev: ‘…misinforming…on purpose.’

    There’s a word for that. 😀

    Loved the post btw.

  34. Lochside says:

    Edinburgh is full of English settlers and students and rich ones at that. The poor are Scottish. Go to the Newtown and Merchiston etc. and you will hardly hear a real(non private school) Scottish voice. Even Gorgie and Leith have been ‘gentrified.’ The EU and other non Scots residents give the city vibrancy and life. The Saxons bring their cultural class conscious snobbery and right wing attitudes with them.But I’m sure Edinburgh would be even more desirable if there were less ‘Sweaties’ to live beside. I can never understand why people don’t realise that its colonisation by stealth and wealth…look at poor Wales!

  35. Ken500 says:

    Jersey, Guernsey only allows a few residences a year to millionaires because of the shortage of land. Both were tax havens until recently when bank finance Gas now to be disclosed by British citizens. They use sterling. They are relevantly small land mass per population. High density. English/French speakers. Many Private services Fees for education/NHS. Average well heeled population.

    There are many migrant, seasonal workers particularly from France and Portugal. Tourism, agriculture, finance, services etc. There was a scandal when Phillipino nurses were being hired and fired on contracts to deny them citizenship for those who wanted it. Two year contracts and then finished fired. Other nurses rehired and then fired. Unfair and unequal. The citizens appreciated their endeavours.

    Workers who can be employed for contracts of a certain term – five years? Can then be entitled to citizenship within the criteria. Citizenship can also be acquired by marriage/relationship or birth of an infant. More sympathetic hearing.

  36. heedtracker says:

    BBC Scotland lays out their number one target seat in their Scotland region.

    If they can get Angus Robertson out of Westminster, they’ll get a very big pat on the head from Donalda MacC, who’s very busy winning back Scotland’s trust, in the BBC. What a bunch:D

  37. Phil Robertson says:

    Again you are very elective in your reading.

    A minor point about the Strutt and Parker quote, at no point does it claim that the whole £70,000 is attributable to the LBTT. There are other costs in buying/selling property.

    The Scottish Fiscal Commission made the salient point about the need for accurate forecasts. And again the Swinney numeracy strikes. It appears there will be a shortfall of around £800M in the next four years.

    For many, that is the concern.

  38. Swami Backverandah says:

    In a nutshell.

    Tory economic policy that benefits the rich is paid for by penalising rape victims.

    That’s a great look, Ruth.

    Take a bow.

  39. heedtracker says:

    A minor point about the Strutt and Parker quote, at no point does it claim that the whole £70,000 is attributable to the LBTT. There are other costs in buying/selling property.”

    Its cheap as chips Phil. It couldnt be any cheaper in the UK zone. Why are you sliming all over tiny rises in tax Phil?

  40. Ken500 says:

    Trump is now advertising Coke Cola. It is poisonous. Trying to kill off even more people. 26,000 killed in the US a year from gun crime.

  41. ronnie anderson says:

    Quite ah few slates missing from the tap piece of those hack Tax the Basterds Tae the HILT or we will end up like London/England , where buying & selling houses is the ruination of a economy .

    Those Companies & Individuals who buy land for investment should be taxed & no Council should be selling of Public Land to Developers & enrich them by the granting of planning permissions.

  42. BabsP says:

    The interesting thing here is that when Stamp Duty was devolved to the Scottish Government they did a radical overhaul. The old Stamp Duty regime was an outdated and much criticised “slab” tax – up to £125K you paid nothing and at £125,001 you paid 1% on the WHOLE price. So that extra £1 cost you £1251. It created horrible distortions in the market. If your property was valued at £125K you had little hope of achieving a higher price purely because of the Stamp Duty implications.

    So the Scottish Government changed the basis on which LBTT was calculated so that you only pay on any part of the price which exceeds the threshold or the different bands. A much fairer system. And low and behold what happened in the next UK budget? The UK decided to piggy-back on our idea and introduce the same system – albeit in a less progressive way (by which I mean that those buying high value properties do not pay such high rates in England).

    So to say it is “ill suited and poor” is beyond ridiculous. The Westminster Government liked it so much they couldn’t wait to copy it.

  43. Golfnut says:

    I’m not quite sure how someone buying a second home in Edinburdh or the highlands or anywhere to be honest can be properly classed as an overseas investor. It’s a sound bite of course, trying to give the impression that the tax is somehow preventing inward investment, creating jobs etc. That’s fairly disingenuous at the very least.

    I’m not surprised to see the msm come out with these stories on behalf so called ‘ investor’s ‘ since its presumably a tax these people have difficulty in avoiding.

    There is barely a town or city in Scotland which isn’t blighted by these investors, empty shops, crumbling and derelict buildings, wasteland, not to mention country estates, empty of homes and people.

    We don’t need these ‘ investor’s ‘.

  44. Another Union Dividend says:

    heedtracker says:@12.09

    It should be mandatory for those Tory List MSPs to resign their Holyrood seats if they are contesting a seat in another Parliament. As well as Ross in Moray, Briggs is contesting Joanna Cherry’s seat. That’s the rule for MEPs.

    Even worse is the Tory council candidate in Liberton/ Gilmerton ward who has been selected to contest Edinburgh South while still fighting a council seat.

    I know Alex Salmond sat in two parliaments but that doesn’t make it right and the position is worse for list MSPs who have never been elected in the first place

  45. Ken500 says:

    The important point is the SNP Gov is building 6,000 affordable houses for rent each year. The private sector builds 17,000 a year. Other properties come on the market. Enough to maintain and manage reasonable housing levels.

    Tim Farron giving May her character. She doesn’t like it. What a bitch.

  46. Arbroath1320 says:

    If I had a heart, morals and a soul then they would all simultaneously be bleeding for the poor wee souls suffering over the LBTT for their second homes.

    Unfortunately I do not have a heart, morals or a soul so they can all GTF as far as I’m concerned … I’m a Tory after all you see. 😀

  47. ScottishPsyche says:

    I’m not a great fan of TV debates but May is so terrible she really should be made to defend her awful policies.

  48. Graeme McCormick says:

    The 3% LBTT surcharge on second properties was introduced by the Scottish Government the George Osborne introduced the 3% surcharge on Stamp Duty land Tax in the 2015 Autumn Statement. It was a surprise to everyone and as far as I know the Scottish government’s reaction was to introduce a parallel surcharge in Scotland least Scotland be seen as a soft option for the people Osborne was trying to deter. Thus it was a Tory Tax.

    Almost everywhere in Scotland house prices are much lower than south of the Border and that applies to all price ranges. That’s a good thing too which the Scottish Government should make much more of to counter the UK media obsession with housing ladders. In every council area in Scotland you can buy a two bedroomed house in decent areas for less than £100,000. 95% mortgages are available so it means that saving £5000 shouldn’t be an insurmountable challenge for most folk on average earnings. Stats show that Mortgage Freedom Day is much earlier in the year in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

    Even if the LBTT is higher on a same price comparison purchasers in Scotland get much more in quality/size of property than what they could buy in the South for the same money. I’m not aware of any of the so called experts or commentators who have surveyed people who have moved from the South to Scotland for their comments.

  49. Macart says:


    PMQs – apparently PM May refuses to guarantee triple lock on pensions.

    Who knew?

    Better Together yet are we?

  50. Tam the Bam. says:


    It took Angus Robertson 1 question to force Theresa May out of her comfort zone and visibly uncomfortable at being asked the tory position on the pension triple-lock…something Corbyn failed to achieve in 6.

  51. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil Robertson says: 26 April, 2017 at 12:12 pm:

    Utter pish!

  52. HandandShrimp says:

    I am sure 99% of the Scottish population’s hearts are bleeding profusely for the poor dears being taxed on £500,000 second homes

    FFS! what on earth possessed these churnalists to scribe such drivel.

    SNP does day job…Tories hate it 🙂

  53. heedtracker says:

    Graeme McCormick

    “In every council area in Scotland you can buy a two bedroomed house in decent areas for less than £100,000. 95% mortgages are available so it means that saving £5000 shouldn’t be an insurmountable challenge for most folk on average earnings.”

    And these area’s of Scotland are a buy-to-let goldmine, creating really fast turnovers, from slave wage level housing needs.


    Its because there’s been hardly any social housing built for decades in Scotland. SLabour under Blair and Brown refused to build social housing and to be fair, there was nothing about Lab building any social housing, in their 1997 manifesto.

    Its why you have SLab socialist workers like Aberdeen’s ACC finance convener and Olympic level catastrofuck Wullie Young, now a buy-to-let landlord millionaire, in Aberdeen.

    Making millions from Labour’s zero social housing policies, and then changing it all, is hardly an incentive for millionaire socialist workers, for SLabour high finance dudes, such as high finance catastrofuck future Sir Wullie Young OBE.

    You can never be too good looking or have too much money, says Wullie.

    Vote SLab.

  54. louis.b.argyll says:

    To hell with them..Swinney knows what he’s doing, the rich must be taken down a peg or two.. what with all the tax relief on pensions they get.

  55. Robert Graham says:

    BabsP well spotted and not the first time this tory lot at Westminster have used ideas the Scottish Government have successfully implemented , do you suppose they will miss us when we go ? .

  56. Grant says:

    There was an interesting comment piece in this weekend’s Observer, discussing the UK’s incredibly low taxation of asset wealth as a driver of inequality.

    It’s hardly surprising that Times reading Tory ‘boomers will react badly to any measure to do anything about this. If housing inequality is to be corrected at all it will probably result from natural demographic change. Turkey’s might not vote for Xmas, but they don’t live forever.

  57. Dan Huil says:


    Theresa May is about as politically substantive as this so-called united kingdom. And about as honest.

    Excellent work by Angus Robertson.

  58. Artyhetty says:

    Re; David Caledonia@11.06 Great surname.

    Agree there should be some restrictions on who can buy property in Scotland. Those not born here shouldn’t be one of them though as there are lots of people obviously who come to live and work permanently.

    There are a lot of properties though, say in Edinburgh Newtown, where you see a big, hugely expensive flat for sale. Next thing you know, its lying empty for years. Someone, not in Scotland you can guarantee that, bought the property, maybe stay in it for a couple weeks during the festival, and leave it sitting empty for 50 weeks of the year. Why I don’t know, somewhere to keep their money to avoid tax?

    The thing is, do these people register to vote? Can they vote? Can second home owners, holiday home owners vote, those keeping very large properties empty in the newtown, vote?

    Anyone complaining about a few £k, when they have enough to buy a property for just short of a million, or even a mere 500k, 🙁 needs their head examined. The second home scheme and benefits for the rich has to be curbed, and that is what John Swinney is attempting to do. The tories and red tories hate that. Load of disgusting troughers.

  59. Robert Peffers says:

    heedtracker says: 26 April, 2017 at 12:18 pm:

    ” … Why are you sliming all over tiny rises in tax Phil?”

    Not sure he can answer that question, heedtracker but perhaps I can. Every time I see that person’s name several others words immediately spring to mind :-

    Greed, blood, soil, nationalist, unionist, extreme, right, wing, hate, anti-Scottish, TORY.

  60. Dr Jim says:

    Theresa May and her Unionist chums are politically weak as they were at the last GE that’s why the attacks they make on the SNP and English opposition are personal

    The name calling, the suggestions of impropriety, and let’s not forget the creation of fear agenda amongst the English folk using the media to do it, it’s how the UK operates, create division then blame that division on others

    But there is one question that they can never answer and it makes them hopping mad

    If England is so good why have all the former countries of the Empire (who are now Independent) not been on the phone to come back to wonderful Britain to be part of Theresas best possible deal

    I wonder what the answer is….. Hmmn!

  61. Proud Cybernat says:


    Theresa May is about as politically substantive as this so-called united kingdom. And about as honest.

    Excellent work by Angus Robertson.”

    All blacked out on BBC Radio news – naturally. Can’t be having the Tory-voting pensioners hearing that their party of political choice won’t be maintaining the pension triple lock. BBC would be well scolded by their WM masters if they let than one slip. All this despite an attack from Corbyn at last PMQs before GE being broadcast and an attack from a guy called Farron with just a handful of MPs being broadcast.

    Nothing at final PMQs from the third party at WM being broadcast by BBC because – well, it just wouldn’t be cricket letting the Tory-voting pensioners know the truth of what lies in store for them if they vote this evil bunch back in, would it?

  62. Capella says:

    I think Balmoral should be on the market soon. Shame about the tax.

    I watched a very interesting video yesterday about Basic Income. It’s from Canada but the same principles apply. What is striking is the fact that in Canada too there are people who work full time yet can’t afford to feed and house themselves without benefits.

    How did this happen?

    It’s clearly time to get the pitchforks out. Someone says that the wealthy are themselves looking at Basic Income as a way of preventing the coming tsunami. I do hope so.

  63. Ken500 says:

    Angus Robertson Pensioner Question trailed on SKy. Tim Farron called May out. Gave her her character.

    The EU membership is the best deal any country could get. The Tories blew it. They lie about migration numbers. Increased the numbers by including foreign students etc. They were bringing money into the UK paying the full whack. Decreased the numbers of UK migrants in the EU by not including the number taking citizenship (duel?) for tax reasons. The Tories not admitting who caused the migration into Europe. US/UK illegal wars. The wars Westminster have caused, leaving the European countries to pick up the tab costing £Billions.

    The UK has taken 10,000 refugees from Iraq. 1,000 in London. 9,000 placed in the poorer North of England in Labour areas, which were more likely to turn to UKIP and vote Brexit. Deliberately? The Tories refused to take 30,000 displaced, vulnerable children. The Tories don’t like children.

    The US has been starving North Korea for over fifty years. Chinese has to help them out. The problem the world has is US ‘psycho bastards’ destroying the world. Getting into Trns of debt.

  64. Blind Squirrel says:

    I am not sure about this but I think that the guy from Bestseller, who is one of the largest landowners in Scotland, pays tax on the Scottish land he owns. Not to the Scottish (or UK) government but to the Danish one.
    Danes pay tax on property they own abroad, certainly in other Nordic countries:
    If so the tax collected on Scottish property by the Danish government helped them pay off their foreign debt a couple of weeks back. That’s not ironic but it is quite something.

  65. gus1940 says:

    Watching today’s PMQs – Has Theresa May ever answered a single question fired at her by Angus Robertson.

    Would it not be a good idea to extend the powers of The Speaker so that he/she could judge whether or not the PM or any Minister being questioned has answered the question and either insist on an answer or leave the fact that it hasn’t been answered on the record?

  66. Cactus says:

    Aye and for only half the space in the Merchiston property for sale.

    Looks like the house is an upper floor flat.

    The neighbours must enter through a back door or window.

    It’s all about yer dear neighbours!


  67. Vestas says:

    @gus1940 2:31 pm :

    “Would it not be a good idea to extend the powers of The Speaker so that he/she could judge whether or not the PM or any Minister being questioned has answered the question and either insist on an answer or leave the fact that it hasn’t been answered on the record?”

    Given the current speaker is Bercow & his anointed successor is the “washing machine salesman” who offers to supply cocaine to rentboys (Vaz – aka Vazelene) I think that’s probably not one of your better suggestions. Also think of speakers passim – like the venal self-serving scum who came before Bercow.

    Not one of your better efforts matey 😉

  68. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    26 April, 2017 at 2:26 pm
    I think Balmoral should be on the market soon. Shame about the tax.

    If you’re into hill walking, Balmoral’s one of the nicest place to do it, the owners are virtually never there, its run beautifully and the staff are delightful.

    Bar the bloodshed in August that is. Lochnagar’s great to walk anytime of the year and charities have worked really hard to make permanent tracks.

    After 9/11, for a few summers, when the owners were in residence, a lone Nimrod jet did lazy 8’s at 20,000 feet overhead, permanently protecting the royal family.

    Strange RAF jobs, but strange days in a very strange precious precious union of toryness.

  69. Ken500 says:

    Tim Farron backs Eric Pickles who banned wind turbines in England. Scared of the truth.

  70. Ken500 says:

    Jets fly over Deeside all the time frightening the people exercising their right to roam. It’s on their training flight path. Not for the faint hearted. The blasted can practically look the pilots in the eyes. Many near misses. Two jets together. Double annoyance, Braemar, Ballater predominately loves the Royals.

    The multimillionaire MSP family owns half of Deeside. Cousin of the Queen. Took out a £25Million loan on the tax evaded land to cover the NE downturn. It was caused by Tory 6 jobs Osbourne’s illegally high taxation on the Oil & Gas sector. The Tory reckons the sector should ‘stand’ on it’s own. Unlike the Tories mismanagement. Supports fracking though.

  71. Proud Cybernat says:

    Watching today’s PMQs – Has Theresa May ever answered a single question fired at her by Angus Robertson.”

    She gives a response (usually fluffy soundbite garbage) to his questions. But a response is not the same as an answer.

    So no, she hasn’t.

  72. Cactus says:

    Eh & btw that was to emphasize it was a flat and no a hoose, for anybuddy that thought it was a hoose the first time round, speed reading, like me.

    Anyways, closing for offers on the 3rd May at lunchtime.

    Maybe we should crowdfund and buy the hoose for the pre-Emergency General Election. We need somewhere to party for before and after!

    Always read twice.

  73. East Neuker says:

    O/T, but currently relevant –
    Does anybody know what’s actually going on with SNP fisheries policy? This stuff about Whiteford and Weir signing pledges that Scotland won’t be in the Common Fisheries Policy, which de facto means we can’t be in the EU? Now I know some independence supporters want that outcome, but I don’t, and I’m wondering if there’s something I haven’t been told. Can anyone here help?
    Has NS had anything to say on this? This sort of confusion could really damage the cause.

  74. Fred says:

    Google, Lesley Riddoch, Dundee, excellent speech!

  75. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t think 2nd home owners will get much sympathy in Scotland, in many rural places they’ve pushed the price up and pushed out local buyers including the younger generation, leading to closing of shops and other businesses, and even an amount of depopulation, as for most of the year they’re empty and not helping to support local businesses. In addition when they do arrive for their two weeks it’s with a car full of provisions from a supermarket where they live. Where oh where can they buy their Times (or Guardian) – the local shop shut down, nasty people?

    Personally I think LBTT for 2nd home owners is not high enough. Apart from a lower limit for a butt and ben, I’d double it.

  76. K1 says:

    Pmq’s is ‘reality tv politics’ for the dumbed down. ‘Showtime’ or as ah a like tae term it: ‘Noshowtime’.

  77. shiregirl says:

    Completely o/t here (sorry) but asking if anyone knows who this Tommy Robinson is who appears to be on facebook a lot?

    Making out he is The Equalizer, going after minority ‘gangs’, etc?? wtf?

    Not sure how he is on my timeline but he appears to have a lot of followers (of the yoonish/GBOK persuasion I think….)

    Who is he?!

  78. K1 says:

    Are we aw aware Andy Wightman is under pressure in a defamation case that could if those accusing him are successful result in him becoming bankrupt and having to quit as an MSP?

    Aye they’re gunning for those they view as threatening to the status quo in Scotland richt enough:

  79. Artyhetty says:


    UK dyed in the wool tactics of divide n rule alive n well. Not the only ones of course, you should see what is happening in Venezuela right now. It’s positively Orwellian. Total false flag stuff going on to try to bring down left wing Gov, again, and the opposition right are paying ppl to riot, even killing innocent and children in the process, as well. Some of those being paid to riot, in their protective gear btw, have been killed ‘accidentally’ as well. It is a totally fckd up situation and very scary tactics being used, aided n abetted by you know who of course, a close neighbour.

    ‘Opposition’ are creating mayhem, and blaming it on sitting Gov to try to bring them down, ppl are asking why as they have elections in 2018, so why now? See TeleSURtv, its horrendous what has been happening for weeks, and world media are totally ignoring it.

    Venezuela has oil. 🙁

    sorry if typos, in a hurry.

  80. Capella says:

    re Balmoral – it’s not actually their second home. It’s their umpteenth home. But they don’t pay the bedroom tax.

    Land Value Tax would also be better than the Council Tax. Andy Wightman has researched it in some detail.

  81. shiregirl says:

    ooft. Just googled him. What a tool.


  82. Les Wilson says:

    Lochside says:

    This is not only happening in Edinburgh or richer areas.
    I traveled all over Scotland in a motorhome some years ago, one place I went to was Grantown on Spey.

    I was shocked at the english contingent there, when I was there (3 days) It stuck in my throat when up went streams of Union jacks across the main street, not a saltire in sight.

    I went into a local shop and while there asked the owner what was going on here but cannot now remember the reason. What I do remember is asking the owner, who was Scottish.
    He said he was fed up of it all, but said it quietly less someone hear him.

    He went on to explain the english were everywhere in the town, think they now own it. A lot have small businesses locally and in the town, they arrive in the spring, open up their business for the season and depart back home to jolly old blighty.

    He says during the period they go home the place is dead, many small businesses and shops all closed for 6 months or so.

    The door opened and in came a man. The owner stopped speaking to me and bade me farewell with a forced smile. Not a happy man, and who can blame him. I always wanted to see Grantown on spey, but I never went back, nor will I.

    This is the situation all over the highlands, many similar situations all over the place.

    One reason for this was the London/South of England property boom a few years ago.They could sell their houses down there for mega bucks compared to ours.

    Then come up here and get a nice property for a pittance by their standard, many times also buying a small business into the bargain.

    With a lot of money still in the bank,they have then a nice house, an interest to play with and money in the bank.
    A great life if you can have it,and boy don’t they have it, all over Scotland this is going on and has been for a very long time.

    Of course this made many houses unaffordable for locals, pricing them out of the market.It is still going on in some of the nicest places we have, unsurprisingly.

  83. Patrick Roden says:


    I think he’s the guy who leads the English Defence League, a right wing, anti-moslem group.

  84. Gerry says:

    This looks like a seriously good poll for us.

    20-24 April

  85. Dr Jim says:

    @East Neuker

    Brexit means we’re out of the EU
    rejoining will be a negotiation but easy as we’re already fulfilling all the criteria and we’re welcome but we don’t have to have the same conditions as the UK had and neither do we want some of them, so Scotland will negotiate a deal that suits our economy not the UKs

    But that’s something Scotland will discuss with ourselves when we decide the time’s right before we rejoin the EU
    we won’t just be blundering in on any old conditions

    The SNP are a tad smarter than the UK

  86. Dr Jim says:


    Tommy Robinson, total EDL nutjob nasty Nazi bad attitude guy
    and English version of Trump on speed

    I tried being conservative (small c) there

  87. shiregirl says:

    Patrick Roden says:
    26 April, 2017 at 3:37 pm

    I think he’s the guy who leads the English Defence League, a right wing, anti-moslem group.

    Cheers Patrick. Need to excuse my naivety/ignorance.

    I googled him. Jeezo…what a piece of work. Scary thing is, he appears to have loads of followers applauding his ‘work’.

    How does he get away with it? 🙁

  88. heraldnomore says:

    Blair McDougall Slab candidate in East Ren

  89. shiregirl says:

    Thank you Dr Jim!

    I am stunned at the amount of people on fb applauding him. Scary stuff.

  90. Faltdubh says:

    Interesting about McDougall being the candidate in East Renfrewshire, that might actually give the SNP a better chance of keeping the seat.

  91. Legerwood says:

    Looks like more woe for UK’s press. They are slipping down the world rankings on the issue of press freedom.

    From the Guardian

    Guardian report of PMQ’s gave Angus Robertson a gold star for his question to Mrs May about pensions

  92. Effijy says:

    I’m scared by what is supposed to be the UK media.

    Not only for how it uses every dirty trick in the book to hide the truth, distort it, or just pass on complete lies as the truth, but what is happening now is very likely to be UK Media corruption mild.

    As the rich get richer and more powerful, and the poor get poorer and weaker, what is to stop the reporting of all, or any facts that don’t support the rich?

    What if they tell us that all Syrians have democratically voted to live in the rubble that was once their home, and that they have no need for hospitals, schools, or sanitation.

    What if their next report shows that UK Pensioners no longer think that they should get pensions, as it is very unfair on the young?

    How about a popular campaign to cryogenically freeze the unemployed until the job market picks up again?

    They could pass a bill to remove any new born child who’s Mother doesn’t have a job with an income above £20K per annum.

    How about open air education centres for the working class children to save on School Building and maintenance costs?

    Big Brother is here already with the Tories in the lead role. It’s just about to become the only permitted UK party, so Scots had better get out there and vote for their last ever chance of freedom.

    More than 50% of the English are about to vote for the increasing gap between the Rich and the poor, a sell off of the National Health Service, a break in the old age pension’s triple lock, increase in retirement age to 70, 15% increases on food and fuel costs, an extended period with Zero Trade Deals with any country, and already 3,000,000 UK Kids are going hungry!

    Do you want this for yourself, your Children, and your Children’s Children?

    Hunger, Hypothermia, Health Deterioration, and a Halt to all Hand outs.
    They are all yours just by voting for a Westminster based Party at any future election.

  93. Hamish100 says:

    Re second homes of over £750000. If only those living in cardboard boxes could live dream.

    For those lucky enough to live in big hooses all by them selves. How many wc’s do you really need!

  94. K1 says:

    Macdougall standing in East Ren? Are there no depths to their greed, cause let’s face it, this guy does not give a toss about the plight of those less fortunate, nor local services et al, this guy actively campaigned and lied prolifically so that Scotland remain tethered tae those who wish and cause us harm. Is there a chance of him succeeding in East Ren?

  95. Phil Robertson says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    heedtracker says:
    ” … Why are you sliming all over tiny rises in tax Phil?”

    To repeat my point is about the £200M annual shortfall in the SG’s income. How is that money going to be recouped or what further cuts will be needed to cover for it?

    I have no objection to tax rises.

  96. heedtracker says:

    heraldnomore says:
    26 April, 2017 at 3:53 pm
    Blair McDougall Slab candidate in East Ren

    Nothing on old Tenbellies’ twitter timeline. Just the usual snide git stuff, what’s made him a fair wodge of BetterTogether dough right enough. Be very odd watching Bliar on Labour Commons back benches, June 9.

    JC probably not going to survive June 9, so there should be a red tory revival down there. Ian Murray must praying for all kinds of winners and losers too.

    Blair McDougall?Verified account @blairmcdougall Apr 25

    Blair McDougall Retweeted The National
    A deal for nationalists: put what you want on passports (Churchill wedgying a Spaniard/Sturgeon riding unicorn) & we’ll do schools & NHS?

  97. Cactus says:

    Best get yer tuba’s and trumpet’s oot fur Blair McD then, East Ren!

    Ahhhhh ha ha ha!

    We got cool Kirsten.

    It’s wiki-wiki Wednesday:

    Hot Jupiter!

  98. heraldnomore says:

    When I first read of Tuba Boy standing I did wonder which colour of tories he’d be representing, having worked for both of them together a couple of years ago. But it is the red ones.

    Don’t think Kirsten Oswald will be quaking in her boots, having seen off Murphy last time. McDougall was of course yanking Murphy’s chains.

  99. K1 says:

    Whoa..he’s standing in the GE? I thought it was the council elections, are we kidding?

    Mr Blair ‘we won by lying through oor teeth and scaring people shitless’ McDougall. Och weil hopefully the people of East Ren will remember what he revelled in during indyref and give him short shrift.

  100. heedtracker says:

    Must be true, this idiot’s backing tenbellies.

    Duncan Hothersall? @dhothersall 27m27 minutes ago
    Absolutely delighted that @blairmcdougall has been selected to stand as Scottish Labour’s candidate in East Ren. #BackingBlair

  101. yesindyref2 says:

    48% is good, potentially plus the 3% for Greens if they don’t stand in marginals. But very small sample size – 76 excluding don’t knows. I got a little excited in the next table when I saw 82%, but that’s 82% of 2015 SNP voters intending to vote SNP. A target will be to get back those 18% 2015 SNP voters!

  102. mike d says:

    Ken500. 10.22am. Spot on ken, personally I’ve never subscribed to sky in my life,and look forward to the day when murdoch meets up with his old pal thatcher in hades.

  103. yesindyref2 says:

    @Phil Robertson says: “And again the Swinney numeracy strikes

    Read BabsP’s posting. That’s not the only financial policy Swinney came out with that Westminster (Osborne) copied. If he’d been chancellor of the UK Government, the UK would be in a much much sounder financial position.

  104. mike d says:

    2nd home southern tory voting home owners are very lucky they chose to buy in a tolerant country like Scotland,because any other country wouldn’t even allow these parasites to have a vote on the future of a country that they have no allegiance to. And that’s being kind.

  105. jfngw says:

    The BBC is based on the British colonial system, the locals will be allowed to tinker around with minor issues on a day to day basis. But come to anything major and the overseers from London will arrive to ensure things run to plan, that’s if the local are even invited to take part once the anointed ones arrive.

  106. K1 says:

    Oh yes as someone just reminded us aw on twitter…McDougal standing as Slab…but…but…but ah thought he wis a Tory?

    This should be made intae a huge billboard and plastered aw o’er East Ren…

  107. Brian Powell says:

    Blair must be assuming those who voted Labour in 2015 will vote for a Tory touter in 2017.

    Perhaps he didn’t see the Holyrood debate on the rape clause, or notice that a lot of voters in E Ren want to stay in the EU.

  108. Robert Peffers says:


    I came across this YouTube Video. It’s a bit long but of great interest. It lays out clearly what most Wingers have been attempting to piece together but never get it all to fit together as an overall big picture.

    It comes from a couple of organisations that most of us have never heard of :-

    Powerbase & Spinwatch.

  109. Brian Powell says:

    Blair assuming Labour voters from 2015 will vote for a Tory touter in 2017.

    I guess he didn’t see the Holyrood debate on the rape clause or know some voter in E Ren wanted to stay in the EU.

  110. Presumably Blair McDougall’s Personal Advisor at the Job Centre threatened him with sanctions after 2 1/2 years unemployed if he didn’t apply for a job|: perhaps they even filled in the Labour candidate application form for him.
    Yet another Fat Cat, in every sense of the word, chancing his arm.
    A single issue Britnat xenophobe, he’ll go down a bomb in the leafy suburbs. Aye, right.
    He’ll be telling the good folk of the burb that he’s going to increase their taxes by 10% to pay the undeserving layabouts more money to buy tobacco and drugs, good Socialist that he is.
    I can’t wait for the remaining 55 New Labour Single Issue nominations to be announced.

  111. Roboscot says:

    ‘Suspicious package’ at offices of SNP-controlled Angus Coucil. This follows on from the ‘suspicious package’ at an SNP MP’s constituency office.

  112. Robert Peffers says:


    Any Wingers see themselves in this YouTube Clip?

  113. Proud Cybernat says:

    Would you buy a used tuba from this man?

  114. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil Robertson says: 26 April, 2017 at 4:21 pm:

    “To repeat my point”

    Why? repeat a lie or a load of pish and it is still a lie or a load of pish.

    ” … is about the £200M annual shortfall in the SG’s income. How is that money going to be recouped or what further cuts will be needed to cover for it?”

    Assuming there actually is a shortfall and that the responsibility for the cuts are solidly placed in the hands of the Westminster Treasury and the Tory party austerity regime no one but numpties like you would even dream about placing the responsibility upon either John Swinney or the SG.

    Here is the truth that greedy, despicable and heartless Tory scum like you don’t want the people you are killing to know.

    The period covered by the Tory Austerity has seen the Wealthiest level of the UK population more than double their wealth while the death rate among the poorest has increased as has their rate of suicide, rate of deaths from cold and malnutrition

    Which is why arseholes like you are not against tax rises – as long as they are levied upon those poor, sick, disabled and just out of work

    I have no objection to tax rises.”

    Just like your Tory leader at Holyrood.

    Sitting on an ATV as a photo op extoling a service to see the mountains that the disabled people could never use because it cost too much and because their Mobility Vehicles that they depended upon are being taken from them at a rate greater than 500 per week.

    Like that despicable woman you should be ashamed to be seen in public places, (and no I do not hate you – I pity you).

  115. heedtracker says:

    Proud Cybernat says:
    26 April, 2017 at 5:44 pm
    Would you buy a used tuba from this man?

    What’s his chance in Renfrew? Surprised that greatest living Englishman Duncan Hothersall, still not standing for anything, or maybe he has, will, is, not, maybe next time.

  116. Cactus says:

    Think maybe we should go for the hoose in the Newington dump of a hovel instead.

    Although, it’s got one less bedroom and looks like it has a smaller garden too. I suppose we’ll just have to make do and downsizingly adjust.

    Nice interior though, champagne drinks at reception for all.

    With SGW’s too… watch out for dem pointy heels.

    Pass the caviar over will you.

  117. Hamish100 says:


    See the herald is running a pollution / crisis in Scotland story.

    Ironically they also run anti renewable type stories over wind farms and such like against the SNP. Anyway back to the pollution . The pictures of banner waving crowds appear to show London. In another photograph the mask wearing female stands next to a busy road where the cars are driving on the wrong side of the road.

    You would almost believe the herald was trying to cause difficulties between the SNP and the greens. Why would that be I wonder?

  118. mike cassidy says:

    To go back to the topic –

    A quick check of the twitter pages of the ‘authors’ of the article.

    Daniel Sanderson hated baby boxes.

    Gabriella Bennett doesn’t seem to do politics.

    So I guess it was a case of “Gabriella, just sign here.”

  119. David Innes says:

    The Spectator magazine is promoting tactical voting to oust the SNP. Advice for East Ren? – Vote Tory!!! Pity Blair didn’t contact his mates in the MSM a bit sooner

  120. Rock says:

    The Scottish media, led by the BBC, is the enemy of the Scottish people, in my view.

  121. Sarah says:

    Election monitoring application to OSCE [Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe] asking for ODIHR [Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights]to send immediately an election monitoring mission seems to be a possible answer to the problem with BBC and MSM.

    Craig Murray’s article 19.1.2015 goes into the detail but looking at biased media is part of their role.

    What do Wingers think? Should we write to our MPs/MSPs en masse to ask them to get on with such an application?

  122. Rock says:


    “You would almost believe the herald was trying to cause difficulties between the SNP and the greens. Why would that be I wonder?”

    Don’t worry.

    The Herald’s sister paper The National will unite the SNP and the Greens.

  123. Thepnr says:

    My old man let’s say 45 years discussed politics with me. He was a Labour supporting Communist though because that’s what he believed in then.

    As a teenager I asked him to justify his support of communism when in so many places it didn’t seen to be working like Vietnam or Korea.

    He answered “You can only eat two chickens a day and don’t need more”.

    Under Tory rule, for many there isn’t even one chicken, guess he had a point.

  124. ScottieDog says:

    @Phil Robertson
    “To repeat my point is about the £200M annual shortfall in the SG’s income. How is that money going to be recouped or what further cuts will be needed to cover for it?”

    No not by cuts Phil. Basic macroeconomics – spending = income at the aggregate level.

    Heard the GERS guy talk about the big tax yields of the city of London. These Tax £s were spent into existence before they were taxed. Spending creates income.

    Tax is redistributive. Stimulus is required.

  125. Dr Jim says:

    It’s a strange and dangerous country we live in whose media will criticize North Korea or Russia at the drop of a hat
    yet fail to criticize their own Tory government over the Rape Clause when such an august body as the United Nations makes a statement to say how inhumane the UK governments policies are on the vulnerable

    The United Nations who Scotlands First Minister addressed less than two weeks ago by invitation of that august body and who received ovations for her speech which most of the rest of the worlds media showed on their national TV stations so important was it in their opinion

    In Scotland the media thought that Scotlands First Minister was not that important and their coverage consisted of a few seconds clip followed by an edited interview with a discredited BBC “journalist” who asked about Independence
    in order that the BBC could make a political discrediting point about that featuring opposition spokespeople who decried the visit as a “jaunt” “not doing her day job” and who was paying for it

    The rest of the world, not just Europe, holds Scotlands First Minister in high regard, if she were a sportswoman she would be as highly regarded and seen as much as Andy Murray even though it took them long enough to praise our Andy for his achievements (not one of theirs you see)

    England bursts with pride albeit misplaced over their Tory leaders, so much so,every move they make every heart they break they’ll be watching them, and don’t we in Scotland know it, you can’t turn your telly on and there they are in full glorious technicolour, HD if you’ve got it 24 hours of every day

    Alas in Scotland for us to have any pride in the most popular and polished female politician ever is Verboten
    How does this come to be when old people love her young people love her woodland animals birds and butterflies flutter around her like a Walt Disney movie
    yet Scotlands media want her ended

    Let’s not let them do that!

  126. Thepnr says:

    That was the early 70’s and though he’s passed away now I can guarantee he would be sickened by what labour is today and like me 110% behind an Independent Scotland.

    It will take all kinds of political persuasions to gain our Independence, that’s fin those that support it now are not so different.

    It’s only after Independence though that we can choose to go our separate ways. We might or might not for a while. Some believe in staying in the EU some do not. Some are of a more left wing persuasion others are not. What we all have in common is that we support the same initial goal.

    Good news is that we get to decide how our country will be governed after we choose Independence without interference.

    It will be the people of Scotland’s choice only. Who can’t be happy at that?

  127. Thepnr says:

    That is real democracy, when a people get to choose who should be their government. Scotland doesn’t get that we get who England choose as will happen in just a few weeks time.

    I really don’t care what the composition of a Scottish government would look like under a proportional representation voting system in our first Parliament elections.

    I only care that it would represent the votes of all of Scotland and only Scotland. Not those of the rest of the UK.

    It would be our vote, Yes only ours, Scotland’s choice of government.

  128. Thepnr says:

    Why anyone at all would give up that opportunity to have true democracy in their country is beyond me. I’ll never understand that.

  129. Thepnr says:

    Only those parties that support Independence are democratic. All the rest what to keep things “just the same” because it suits them.

    Though things are not “just the same” though are they?

    The poorest are getting poorer whether they are working or not, the health service is being underfunded and paople are literally dying on trolleys, and for what?

    Private profit and a reduction in government spending in order that LESS tax is taken from those that can most afford to pay more. This is just WRONG. It is immoral and unjustifiable.

    49% of Scots are now saying YES, we need more voices. Make yours heard.

  130. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    That greatest living Blairite Duncan Hothersall won’t stand for anything @heedtracker says at 5:59 pm

    And the reason is simple he’s one of those who’d shit stir a fight then stand around goading on the bully to beat 7 shades out of the poor sod involved.

    Dunc is one of those all mouth no action guys, castigate and carp at how that’s not the right thing to do but won’t ever put himself in a position to make the big call.

    Too afraid.

    Guys like Duncy, they are the type of person who are grounded in a fantasy Victorian/Edwardian Britain.

    Bred to serve a, butler type character who believes he is above the manual workers and skivvies but knows his place is below his betters.

    The epitome of the Cringe a man with little or no self esteem.

  131. louis.b.argyll says:

    Yes won’t hurt to remind your MP/MSP of your genuine concerns.

    Although writing to our representatives has been done, along with demonstration and petition. The matter has been commented upon in parliament.

    The issues and effects of press collusion and deliberate demonisation of the Scottish Independence movement is real and ongoing.

    Noticed The Herald running..

    ‘Katie Hopkins launches scathing attack on Sturgeon and urges Scotland to vote Tory’ (in her Mail online column)

    Since when did a rival paper’s columnists ‘opinions’ become ‘news’ in the Herald?

    Pathetic.. and now a sinister drip-drip of putting aggressives to the fore and selling Scotland short.

    What we have, is a card that is unplayed.

    That we suffer state-sponsored media disadvantage ‘because’ we want our ancient nation restored is clearly abuse on grounds of mental cruelty.

  132. Robert Peffers says:

    Thepnr says: 26 April, 2017 at 8:08 pm:

    ” … Good news is that we get to decide how our country will be governed after we choose Independence without interference.
    It will be the people of Scotland’s choice only. Who can’t be happy at that?”

    Phil Robertson @12:12pm: for starters, Thepnr, and all the rest of the Yoons of whatever political hue.

    The Establishment created the BBC with the sole view of them being, the Government’s paid for, propaganda machine.

    The genus of it from The Establishment’s view is that the Brainwashed tax payers of the United Kingdom are the poor saps that now finance the streaming of propaganda into their own homes.

    The British Broadcasting Company, which is the full title of that organisation was formed on 18 October 1922 by a group of leading wireless manufacturers including Marconi.

    Daily broadcasting by the BBC began in Marconi’s London studio, 2LO, in the Strand, on November 14, 1922.

    By the end of 1922 John Reith, a 33-year-old Scottish engineer, was appointed General Manager of the BBC.

    John Charles Walsham Reith, 1st Baron Reith, KT, GCVO, GBE, CB, TD, PC (20 July 1889 – 16 June 1971) was a British broadcasting executive who established the tradition of public service broadcasting in the United Kingdom. In 1922 he was employed by British Broadcasting Company Ltd as its general manager; in 1923 he became its managing director and in 1927 he was employed as the Director-General of the British Broadcasting Corporation created under a Royal Charter.

    At the end of WWI Reith returned to Glasgow as general manager of an engineering firm. In 1922, he returned to London and began working as secretary to the London Conservative group of MPs in the United Kingdom general election, 1922.

    Ironically that election’s results were the first to be broadcast on the new, government funded, radio service.

    The BBC was then, and continued to be ever since, the creation of The Establishment to brainwash the people of the United Kingdom.

    In point of fact it was also used by The Establishment to brain wash the British Empire and always was the largest propaganda broadcaster in the World and far outdid Radio Moscow and Voice of America.

    The BBC World Service can be found on every broadcast band, including some TV frequencies, throughout the World 24/7/365. BTW: The BBC provides much more than propaganda broadcast services to The Establishment.

  133. Thepnr says:


    That was truly dire and has a whiff of pure desperation about it.

    Believe me, they really are on the run printing this guff. Maybe they should take things a great deal easier as a large Tory majority is much more likely to usher in that vote for Independence we seek when the time comes.

    I believe they just can’t stop shooting themselves in the foot and the prize that matters will be ours. Toerag Tories are our enemy.

    It’s Scotland V Tories now from here on in, nothing else.

  134. Sharney Dubs says:

    Sorry if I’m out of sync here but I don’t have the time to read through all the posts. Just want to lake an observation. My experience in Norway, Germany, Netherlands and the like is that it’s a bit unseemly to talk about the value of your home, I mean your home is your home, if you sell it you only have to buy another, right? A property speculater is viewed a bit like a used car salesman. Or so it seems to me.

  135. Macart says:


    Well said.

  136. Legerwood says:

    Mr Gethin on Question Time tonight.

  137. yesindyref2 says:

    Did I say this already? Nevermind:

    #toriesout and #stopthetories

  138. heedtracker says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    26 April, 2017 at 8:56 pm
    That greatest living Blairite Duncan Hothersall won’t stand for anything @heedtracker says at 5:59 pm

    He does carry that Englishman abroad thing doesn’t he, of old, longing to have his man thrash some vile seps into shape. Its an Edinburgh thing.

  139. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    It’s inconceivable that long-standing Labour voters, as your Dad was, would, right now, be turning to the Tories.

    That’s why I don’t believe these bullshit polls we’re being fed. It’s pure psy-ops.

    And btw, I saw a tweet earlier featuring the face of Peter Lilley, and the accompanying text said that he has a company which delivers electoral support services, polling etc, and that it was involved in indyref.

    Is this true?

    If so, we must’ve discussed it before now…

  140. chocolass says:

    Thanks,Spectator ,for your valuable voting advice.
    Needless to say I’ll be ignoring it.

  141. Sarah says:

    @louis.b.argyll at 9.04 – thank you for responding. It seems such a good idea to get international monitoring of our election and media, and Craig Murray makes it sound perfectly feasible. Given how worried we all are on Wings I am a bit surprised that there isn’t more enthusiasm for the idea!

  142. Robert Peffers says:


    Here’s an interesting reader’s letter from The Shropshire Star :-

  143. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Aye @heedtracker says at 9:36 pm

    “Its an Edinburgh thing.”

    Fit?, Like Red troosers??

    Lovely, Red, New Labour Troosers 🙂

    5th May & then 9th June they Lovely, Red, New Labour Troosers will be well shat.

  144. Cactus says:

    8 Maids a-milking days left to go, less…

    ‘Ra locals’ come 1st.

    Vote up SNP123!

  145. Sarah says:

    Whoops – my post at 7.31 p.m. gave the wrong date. 8.3.2013 is the date of Craig Murray’s article. He also 11.1.2017 did a submission to the Scottish Government’s consultation on rules for the next referendum – he asked his readers to contact their MSPs to support his submission.

    I will now do so and also ask for an application to be made in respect of the current election campaigns so that media bias can be investigated impartially.

  146. manandboy says:

    Jeremy Corbyn says “The Tories are strong against the weak, and weak against the strong”
    I’m not a fan of Corbyn, but I intend to use this quote at every opportunity against the Tories.

  147. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Phil Robertson at 4.21

    What £200 million shortfall, Phil? Laying aside the fact that the UK is £1,800,000,000,000 in debt and THAT IS A SHORTFALL Scotland even on those figures has no shortfall if it stops £4.8 billion it pays annually towards the interest on that UK debt and the £3.5 billion on defence which is mostly on Trident expenditure,not to mention our annual contribution to the House of Lords,the House of Windsor,the London underground system and London’s sewers.

    As a matter of interest how do you think the UK will deal with its ginormous debt and shortfall?

  148. Robert Peffers says:


    Here is perhaps the most embarrassing propaganda exposure the BBC has suffered of late:-

    Yet they continue as if nothing had happened to show how the BBC, and indeed the entire UK Broadcasting and dead tree MSM are feeding a constant 24/7 stream of misinformation into United Kingdom people’s brains.

    They are being exposed on a continually more regular basis but such is their sheer desperation that their combined reaction is to increase the volume and frequency of their downright lies.

    Good grief we even have examples of out and out Britnat liars almost daily right here on Wings. They are invariably instantly called out by Wingers but it seems to be no deterrent and they seem to return as if being well paid to operate a shift system.

  149. Dr Jim says:

    United Nations condemns Theresa Mays government over the Rape Clause as “Inhumane”

    Did you see it on the news?


  150. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    For true Labour supporters like my old man and me of course it would be inconceivable to switch from Labour to Tory.

    However, there are others that I know of and in fact part of my Dads family who are true blues if you like, big picture of King Billy above the Mantelpiece but without a bean in their pocket.

    That’s brainwashing from a very early age, it’s a lack of knowledge is all. Our job to correct that though we have our work cut out.

    I’ll give an example, before 2014 ref I was posting on facebook and many of theses realatives that I never see were my friends (and still are), Anyway I was always posting Indy stuff like YEW CHOOB and other things. One of my cousins children, grown man now of course said he was going to vote for Independence.

    He got pelters for it, I never intervened as I really don’t know any of the children well enough though I knew all the cousins, and it was then the older ones my age given the younger ones pelters. That’s quite difficult to fight because it’s sectarian and nothing to do with Independence.

    All we can do is keep on keeping on a wee bit a time, there is hope though because there always comes a time when the younger ones will ignore their Ma and Da and do what they think right.

    So I’ll never give in though it is tiring, the thought of kicking the Tories out of Scotland for a long time will keep me going.

  151. Albaman says:

    Blair McDougall ?, wonder if he remembers which party he’s so posed to represent?, after all he was a front for the Conservatives,Labour, and the Lib/Dems, Ach well if he has Spud Murphy as his road manager, what could possibly go wrong!!!!.

  152. Lochside says:

    @Whitegold….if anybody doubts that the UK State is funding the media to ensure at all costs we are defeated…this SPECTATOR article is the proof. They are absolutelyfucking desperate to hold us fast. Why would any ‘Metropolitan’ based marginal interest publication produce every constituency result in Scotland with a prompt for each one on how to beat the SNP?
    ‘Skintland’ was the mocking pisstaking edition of us as begging bowl tossers. This one…well they are coming to get us for real.

    Never mind Black ops or Regiment 77 or whatever those shitebags call themselves…there is the proof why Corbyn bent over and offered his arse like a submissive baboon to the pack leader Fannie fucking Mae. The puppet show is Tory v Labour down there…the real war is them stopping us at all costs! they need our bargaining fish & chips and all the oil to keep their stinking little Ruritanian mirage afloat.

  153. Craig says:


    You folks might have seen that Blair McDougall has announced that he will be standing as a candidate for the East Renfrewshire Constituency.

    Kirsten Oswald “SNP” is the current MP and she has a crowd funding page and could us wingers give her a helping hand?

  154. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 26 April, 2017 at 10:28 pm:

    ” … As a matter of interest how do you think the UK will deal with its ginormous debt and shortfall?”

    Should I assume, Dave, that your above question to Phil, the shill, Robertson at 4.21 is rhetorical?

    It is, you see, my opinion that people like Phil Robertson are totally incapable of clear thinking. They are prisoners of, “The Establishment’s”, long running Brain washing propaganda.

    Human brains, I believe, are miscible in water and, after prolonged washing, the victims are rendered incapable of any rational thought.

    They are, to be fair, more in need of our pity than our reprobation.

  155. Artyhetty says:

    D.McEwan Hill@10.28

    And some. Well said, people need to look at just what the UKgov, UK establishment are relying on to save their ass. They have messed up big time. They need to stand on their own two feet, stop siphoning away Scotland’s resources.

  156. Thepnr says:


    Totally agree, you can read the fear in that article. I mean think about it, they are going so far as to have to spell out how to tactically defeat the SNP in every seat in Scotland.

    Hahaha that is so pathetic and the diarrhea has set in and is running down more than just one leg.

    We have to laugh at articles like that, pure desperation hahaha.

  157. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lochside –

    Hear hear.

    Abody kens fine the ‘main event’ at PMQs is Angus Robertson getting to his feet – the rest is a charade that even Spitting Image redux can’t hope to replicate.

    The real battleground is the one Thepnr refers to in his 10.39 post – across kitchen tables and in workplaces, between ‘ordinary’ Scots. But how can a five-minute chat compete with the TWTPTS tsunami?

    Aw man, if only some of our nearest and dearest could glimpse, even for a moment, the power they have…


  158. Cactus says:



    Competence & truth.

  159. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 20:34, 22:39,
    Ian Brotherhood @ 21:45,

    It’s just dawned on me that The Mayhem Gang’s cunning plan is to try to use Brexit as the equivalent of a war, as Thatcher did with the real thing in the Falklands (which conveniently enabled her at the time to turn an imminent election loss into a win).

    Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel.

    And of course it’s particularly targeted at “yes-leavers”, some of whom (but not all, as previous posters here have related) are being seduced into thinking that immigration UK-style is somehow a bigger problem than their current servitude to a government in London that doesn’t give a hoot for them anyway.

    Distraction politics – find a convenient scapegoat to sell to people who are willing to believe it. Thanks to hard-acquired self-awareness, we in the indy movement are fairly immune to that kind of ploy, but unfortunately some former yes-voters seem willing to give up the pot of gold just round the corner for a few cheap beads now.

    We need to get over to everyone that first we have to get independence, then everything else can follow. Without the one, the rest all become impossible.

    It’s a simple message, but it needs to be got out to everyone, whether former “yes” voter or disillusioned former “no” voter.

  160. Robert Peffers says:

    Sorry for posting those O/T links I turned up in my research today on, “The Establishment’s”, long history of propaganda.

    Particularly those links to the two organisations of Powerbase and Spinwatch.

    Pity The Establishment have found it fairly easy to have mainly silenced them, as they do with all voices raised against, “The Establishment”.

    We are opposing a large, very rich and powerful, foe but somehow we seem, at least for the present time, got them thouroleigh rattled and they are becoming more and more desperate and hysterical.

    We need all the help we can muster and those two organs seem to have great references we can put to very good use.

    Note that they are run by real experts and not pet food sellers and hobbyist Yoons. These people are real experts with degrees to prove it.

    What’s more their degrees are in the field they write about unlike the majority of quoted as experts by the broadcast companies and dead tree press.

    The Rev Stu has a rather apt name for those false experts and sham sources.

    I’m whacked and ma hied’s nippin – Ah’m awa tae ma bed/

    ‘Night, all.

  161. crazycat says:

    @ Thepnr

    I’m just catching up on this thread – that Spectator article is not just desperate, it’s also really ill-informed (not that I’m complaining about that aspect of it if it misleads people!). He presumably felt obliged to make a recommendation for every single constituency, but he clearly knows very little about some of them.

    For instance, there’s a huge difference between the current Holyrood/former Westminster constituency of Ayr, and the current Holyrood/Westminster constituencies of Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley/Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock. The former is urban, the latter are a mix of urban, rural, and ex-mining areas, with a very different voting history. He didn’t seem to notice that John Scott of the Ruth Davidson Party only held on last year by the skin of his teeth (probably including a substantial personal vote), either.

    He also described Carmichael as “exaggerating” rather than blatantly lying. The comments were quite diverting though.

  162. Cactus says:


    @ ra lurkers.

    Now is ra time!

    We have arrived.

    What say U?

  163. Cactus says:

    With the competence and the truth…

    Go and see the SNP.

    They got the one, two & three.

  164. Cactus says:


    I just jest.

    7 days (1 weeks) today for SNP.

    For the people of Scotland.

    We good at ’17.

    Go local.

    Pull yer lever.

  165. Cactus says:

    7 + 1 = 17 (if you gotta mirror)

    “Ooooh, it’s bliss.”

    1+2+3 = SNP

    “Come in breaker on channel 17 for a rig check.”

    Ten, four.

  166. Cactus says:

    Just trying to re-affirm what we all.. already know.

    Cheers Scotland.

  167. Thepnr says:

    Remember the Rev thinking 2017 would be boring, well on that thread I think I was the first to say he was wrong. That 2017 would be the complete opposite of his opinion.

    I’m not bragging but I also said that a General Election was likely LOL, it’s true but so what. These are all just best guesses and are as likely to happen as not.

    So what’s my point?

    Well, some seem to think the Tories are about to make a major breakthrough in Scotland, I see that as very unlikely. This is a party that has either had 1 or 0 MP’s in Scotland for the last 20 years.

    Now I’ll have to admit the collapse of Labour since 2014 has taken me by surprise and even more surprising is that these voters appear to have gone over to the Tories.

    Oh dear, I cant get over former Labour voters supporters Tories but I think that’s they way it is so what difference will it make.

    Hahaha none whatsoever because even if they do get 12 they will still have been defeated by the SNP. Labour will have been wiped out completely (the daft bastards) and the Libs still with one.

    Prediction: SNP 55 CON 3 LIB 1 LAB 0

    That would be a massive victory if Slab got zero, it means that SNP have wiped them out and now it is a straight fight in Indyref2. It’s purely Scotland V Tories.

    It can be no contest,Scotland will win that fight.

  168. pussy nancy says:

    Pussy Nancy says:
    @ Ian Brotherhood – Peter Lilley, Electoral Support

    In answer to your question – Yes it is true.

    The fact that he retired today doesn’t make the smell go away either!

    Here you go – read it and weep!

  169. Cactus says:

    @Thepnr ~

    Just a nod dude.


  170. Cactus says:

    “You touch my fingertips.. and my heart is a-glow…”

    Quinie frae..

    X 😉

  171. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    We need to get over to everyone that first we have to get independence, then everything else can follow. Without the one, the rest all become impossible.

    That IS the answer.

  172. Cactus says:

    One was looking at his EU / Scotland flag, ra-pon his wall.

    Thinkin’… would be cool to see a star behind our central saltire.



  173. Cactus says:

    “Without the one, the rest all become impossible.

    That IS the answer.”

    What you say yeah.


  174. Cactus says:

    Every other day, every other day of the week is Thursday.


  175. Thepnr says:


    Have a wee smile on my coupon, had a beer or two but feeling in a good mood and very positive.

    This is our time, just need to be patient. The time is not now and we all know that. The halfwit May doesn’t know that, oh no she thinks she’s buying time.

    Let’s all laugh at May playing into Nicolas’s hands, she’s GIVING us time to get it right and that’s what we will do.

    All of us and everyday, hahaha. May your a TWUNT 🙂

  176. Cactus says:

    On the ’17, way cool Thepnr.

    Yeah, it’s about time we ridiculed them.. the nasty party.

    The Tories ~ tae the gallows wae them, wae them awe!

    Scotland is beautiful.

    Scotland is bonnie.

    Scotland is home.

  177. Cactus says:

    7 days final countdownup

    Vote up SNP.

    Do it for your settee’s and towns.

    Scotland’s future.

    SNP = 1+2+3

  178. Cactus says:

    1, 2 & 3..

    I wanna see Gold, Silver & Bronze for Scotland’s SNP!

    Is First Ministers questions airing today?

  179. Smallaxe says:

    Breaker, Cactus, been earwiggin’, what’s your 20? are you cool for an eyeball, Good Buddy?

    Peace Always

  180. Cactus says:

    Aye, on ra parallel page..

  181. Smallaxe says:

    Coming in on the side Cactus, that’s a 4. 10-10 till we do it again!

    Peace Always

  182. ian murray says:

    Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn will not participate in the debate if Theresa May is not there
    The man has gone far out of his way to make things easy for his supposed arch enemy.
    No push back on the snap election call (see alic sammin)
    They will not fight the rape clause because the voters have told them to be selective (Harriet Harman)
    And now he will not put pressure on May to participate
    If I was the broadcaster I would empty chair May and pose questions to the empty chair then prompt the empty chair for an answer then allow the other candidates to get longer to make their points

  183. Cactus says:

    Eyeball.. aye aye, breaker breaker.

    Ha Ha, that’s good, I remembers..

    Did that.

    Did YOU?

    First Minister 40 for me.

  184. Cactus says:


    Back to…

    From the top….

  185. Smallaxe says:

    That’s a positive good buddy, wee mag mount on the 12 on my Capri 3ltr rollerskate.

    Peace Always

  186. Cactus says:

    Peace almost Smallaxe.

    Until always….

  187. Cactus says:

    Quality & Sound.

    Sound & Quality.

  188. Smallaxe says:

    Hi-Fi Cactus,

    Peace Almost Always

  189. Cactus says:

    Peace Almost Always 🙂

    I like it.

    I love it.


  190. Smallaxe says:

    You can take it in Peace Cactus.

    Peace Always

  191. Az says:

    Ah! Hi Cactus, Smallaxe

    I see I’m not alone in the small hours of the insomniac. We all have our reasons.

    Love your positivity. I gret* for the first time since 19/9/14 on watching that video Robert Peffers shared. Not really sure why – it wasn’t particularly sad – just all getting a lot for me. Maybe seeing it all gathered in one place like that.

    *I prefer this past tense of greet, it sounds better 🙂

  192. Swami Backverandah says:

    There’s a glitch in the matrix caused by tory spinning and U turning and a blairMac blackhole-vacuum hoovering up residual space and it’s disappearing my posts.

  193. Swami Backverandah says:

    So is it because I keep repeating that the Grasping Claw of Tory rips money from pensioners and rape victims to fund its banker mates?

  194. Smallaxe says:


    Seems to be happening to a lot of people, I’ve lost 2 tonight!

    Peace Always

    Loving the handle

  195. Swami Backverandah says:

    Yes, it is. Post prior to this has gone down the grasping Claw of Tory ripping off pensioners and ruth victims to fund its banker mates face-sucking all-the-life-out-of-decency squidgy parasite.

  196. Az says:


    It’s good to know!

    I’ve always felt a wee bit daunted to comment much here as so many of you are so knowledgable – plus usually if I think of something it will have been said already.

    The first time I did was, if I remember correctly, on the extremely long comment section on the 18th September, and to my amazement someone knew me from my comments on thhe Telegraph of all places… I regret that now – talk about ecpending energy in the wrong places! But a part of me felt I couldn’t let the B’stards away with the lies and they needed challenging (as if anyone was going to be reading those comments to make their decision.

    Anyway, cheers for that song – nice message. Bit modern for my taste lol, not that I’m an old fart just yet 😀

    I do feel an affinity with Wingers, and after reading the nasty trolls on the SNP f/b page, it can be quite uplifting and interesting to read the comments here. PLus the articles have always been dynamite.

    Had to laugh at that Spectator article – I live in Paisley and I’d be pretty shocked if Labour made a comeback now. I like the article in one way though, because it will further confuse the yoons who think they should vote Tory – yet so many of those constituencies were put down as being Labour for yoons! Also amazing to be reminded just how much the SNP won by in Scotland, not just the number of constituencies but the margins of victory. Can we hope for such overwhelming success again? Not sure but we can’t “lose”, can we?

    Bring it on!

  197. Smallaxe says:

    Az says:
    27 April, 2017 at 3:40 am
    “It’s good to know! many of you are so knowledgeable.Anyway, cheers for that song – nice message. Bit modern for my taste lol, not that I’m an old fart just yet”

    I will be 67 this year, and as for knowledgeable, if you’ve been reading any of my posts, you must have realised that I’m as daft as a brush. Keep posting Az everybody has the right to their opinion.

    Peace Always

  198. Swami Backverandah says:

    Hiya Smallaxe, i replied and posted a vid of John Butler trio it’s gone as well

    Going to give it another go if this makes it

    can’t be because I mention Grasping Claw of Tory, surely?

  199. Az says:

    Your comments just appeared for me now Swami. Hi 🙂

  200. Smallaxe says:


    Don’t sweat the little things, we will claw the bastards out of their comfy little nests in May and onwards….
    “Lost in the post”

    Peace Always

  201. Smallaxe says:

    If that was the case, Swami, very few posts would appear on wings!

    Try this!

    Peace Always

  202. Swami Backverandah says:

    I’ve posted about 5 or 6 including a music vid but all disappearing down the McDougalVac

    cheers all

  203. Smallaxe says:

    Swami Backverandah:

    Cheers Swami.

    Peace Always

  204. Az says:

    Smallaxe – I hope you’re right. To the people of Scotland we say be “all that you could be”. Ouch tenuous link to a song in another language, from Brazil one of my faves! Hmm but which version? Okay the original!

  205. Swami Backverandah says:


    Paisley roots music

    “See the dark night has come down on us
    The world is livin’ in its dream
    But now we know that we can wake up from this sleep
    And set out on the journey
    Find a ship to take us on the way.”

    The good ship Independence 🙂

  206. Az says:

    I got a small flyer through my door today for Labour cooncil elections. To give a small credit to them, it was actually printed here in Paisley. It says:

    “Only Labour can stop the SNP in Renfrewshire and protect public services”

    How I laughed. They’ve only been in charge of the cooncil for about 6 decades, I mean, give them a chance, right? lol

  207. Az says:

    Swami – nice! Is that Paolo perchance?

  208. Smallaxe says:


    Labour, Who Dat?

    Peace Always

  209. Az says:

    Smallaxe – och aye, oor Gerry. I know his nephew, he writes humourous songs, quite witty. St Mirren daft. I don’t know where you live but you might recall years ago there was a shop on Sauchiehall Street next to the Variety (corner of Holland St)and he worked there, always sporting the Saints top!

    “Labour, Who Dat?” – nobody, that’s who! hehe

    Swami – hope that vortex releases you soon, pal 🙂

    Well peeps, I should retire for my usual 3-4 hour sleep of semi-awakeness lol. Great to talk, maybe I will find my voice here after all. The best people with the purest aims.

    Love to all and “bom noite” 🙂

  210. Az says:

    *a shop called Alldays I meant to say. It’s still “a shop”!

  211. Smallaxe says:


    I live down in the borders but originally from Barlanark, east end of Glasgow. Very Posh.

    Peace Always

  212. Swami Backverandah says:

    Smallaxe, you’re in the borders?

    Nobel prize candidate Scilla Elworthy coming your way.
    Building Peace – how can we be useful?
    Saturday, 27th May, 2017 19:00 Monday, 29th May, 2017 14:00

  213. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks for that, my friend but my health is not great at the moment, then again she might want to come and visit me for some tips.

    Peace Always

    Goodnight/Morning guys

  214. Brian McHugh says:

    Are there Pro-Yes journalists, who have realised that the only option they have left (to keep their jobs), is to appear to be peddlibg unionist twaddle; whilst actually penning such over the top nonsense, in the full knowledge that your average reader will get it… therefore, covertly undermining the propaganda?

  215. Smallaxe says:

    Good Morning, Nana,

    It looks like it may turn out to be a nice day.
    Thank You, for Your links. Kettle’s on!

    Peace Always

  216. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe. One more link for you

    G A Ponsonby says

    First two headlines read out on this morning’s GMS newspaper review tried to portray a split between Salmond and FM. Deliberate choice? Yes.

    Alex Salmond on lbc yesterday

    and this seems to be the case

    Stupid people vote tory

  217. pussy nancy says:

    pussy nancy says:
    @ ian brotherhood

    In answer to your question re Peter Lilley. Yes it is true.

    I have posted a link for you to read. You will notice that his firm also acquired the contract for the 2017 Local Elections.

  218. ronnie anderson says:

    Good Morning Wingers the Time in London ( good moaning britain ) is 7.19am , in Airdrie as elsewhere in Scotland its 8.19.Nothing new that their on a different time frame.

  219. Ken500 says:

    The Tories are now totally back peddling on Brexit. It is now, ‘it will five years until this’. ‘It will be five years until that’. ‘Have to pay contributions for five years’. ‘Have to be in the Court of Human rights for five years’ etc etc. Another Tory Con. An election which the results are supposed to last five years. Opportunistic.

    Boris Johnston trying to start another world war. Even more carnage. A muck racking ‘psycho bastard’. He should be put in jail for what he has done. The trouble that has been caused. A duplicitous, lying Con man. Wicked and greedy beyond comprehension. Always has been. Always will be. Wikipedia gives an account of that character. The greedy Tories lining the deck chairs. Goldsmith trying to come back. McVey taking over Tatton. Osbourne 5 jobs now off with the illegal gotten £Millions . Gained from ruining the economy and starving the vulnerable. Job done fleecing the public funds. The only reason they join the Tory/Unionist Party.

    The Tories committed election fraud in 31 constituency. A ‘D’ notice has been put on under the Official Secrets Act. The Westminster Press Office have warned MSM they will be put in prison if they print an account. Just like the terrorist attack was covered up because of May’s connection. The Home Office had dealings and involvement with the participants. Purdah now setting in. So the right wing Press can collude even more with the Tory/Unionists.

    Another five years of the Tories embezzling from the public purse on grotesque projects of no value to line them and their associates pockets. Wasting £Billions of public money. In illegal contracts, fees, consultancies and bank charges. The Tory donors getting illegal backhanders of over priced contracts of £Billions of public money.

    The rest of the UK in Trns of debt. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Hinkley by the sea, HS2, Heathrow and Trident. All a total waste of money. There are more credible, cheaper, better alternatives. Illegal funds being borrowed and going out to the Chinese, French, US etc. While the Tories take their massive cut to fund their illegal activities. Total and absolute public abuse of and fraud of gangantic magnitude. Class sizes in England are 36. They are trying to cut them down to 31. Hospitals are folding and underfunded. It is unbelievable.

    The children and the vulnerable are being starved and killed by the Tory/Unionists wasters. Labour are absolutely useless. Their behaviour is intolerable. Farron is now an utter loose cannon. Running around like a headless chicken. One minute attacking the Tories and Labour and then capitulating. Sacking a candidate for telling the truth on account of Eric Pickles who banned wind farms in England. A Unionist ignorant incompetent.

    All essential services in the rest of the UK have been cut since 2010. 7 years of illegal austerity cuts by lying, greedy corrupt Tories and their Westminster unionist enablers. Shower of ‘psycho bastards’ as they deliberately muck up the world economy to line their own pockets. Illegal wars in the Middle East causing a migrant crisis in Europe caused by the U.K./US foreign/defence/economic/social,policy. Destroying the Europe/world economy. Brexit destroying the world economy. The UK/US can’t even have independent foreign/defence/economic policies because of the massive debt. Ingratiated to the debtors to do their will. Total and utter ignorant incompetence. Increasing the debt. A revolving door.

    There is £20Billion a year being taken out of Scotland by the Westminster criminal wasters. By total Westminster mismanagement of the Scottish economy. Illegal high Tory taxes on the Oil & Gas sector. 40% since Jan 2016. Austerity cuts which affect the Scottish budget, Scotland having to pay £1Billion for squint, redundant Trident. Pay £4Billion a year on loan repayment not borrowed or spent in Scotland. A Tax on cheap ‘loss leading’ alcohol would save £1Billiin a year. £3Billion lost on tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose. Scotland can’t borrow. Westminster borrows and spends £100Billion in the rest of the UK. Pro rata £9Billion more than Scotland. The so called ‘Scottish deficit’. Not actually borrowed or spent in Scotland but burden on Scotland by Westminster Treasury duplicity.

    Scotland does not have an opportunity to bid for EU Grants – renewables etc – because of Westminster indecision. The CCS projects reneged upon by Westminster. The extra CAP farming funds Scotland (sheep farmers -barren land) was awarded by the EU taken by UK Farming minister and distributed to wealthier farmers in the south.

    Westminster illegally dose not enforce the UK tax Laws. Multinationals tax evade with impunity. The reason the Tories want out of the EU. So the Tories and their associates can continue to illegally tax evade. The EU is clamping down on tax evasion and illegal financial practices. Multinationals retailers even UK based commit fraud and financial crime. Break the Law and pay a fine, with immunity. They donate to their unionist party backers The consumer pays twice and the guilty do not go to jail for wanton criminal activity. Rip off Britain.

    The fishing industry needs the EU markets for volume and higher prices. Grants and common fishing policies for conservation. Stocks are increasing after constant decline. Quotas are being increased because of the agreement on using bigger nets. Thanks to Richard Lockhead and SNP Scottish Gov representation and involvement. There is a cut in throw back of dead fish. A policy which plagued the industry and led to decline. Norway thought it was disgusting and always used conservation measures.

    The total mess the Tory/Unionists are making backed up all the way by Labour. The UK in total disarray. The vunerable not being protected the division of wealth getting wider. The majority of people getting more and more worried, upset and sick. Mental health issues increasing from the constant worry especially to vulnerable people and the majority of the population who are sick, unhapoy and worried about the total mess the Westminster parasites are making.

    When the opportunity comes soon take it with both hands. Vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence. Scotland has the resources, talent and ability to be a peaceful, happy, equal prosperous Independent county in coalition with the similar EU counties. The EU is the best bargain in the world with shared considerations. More comes back than goes in for continued world prosperity. Nearest biggest market, Grants and shared Defence costs. A total bargain. Saves £Billions.

  220. Ken500 says:

    LBC London calling

    Alex looking tired but telling it as it is as usual. Alex was missed at the Conference by quite a few, but he can’t be everywhere. Still a great triumph.

    Can’t believe the Right are plugging Le Pen. What a waste of time and place. The French are left of centre. Not fascist. Bit too heavy handed with the weaponry.

    In the rest of the UK, it’s Thatcher all over again, only worse. It will all end in tears. Is there something majorly wrong with the English/Wales system. Maybe they should shut down the sycophants, ‘pycho bastards’ Do the world a favour. They think they can rule the world but they destroy the world. Elite egotistical fascists. Not fit for purpose.

  221. galamcennalath says:


    Always great to get your suggested reading list in the morning! 🙂

    Centre on Constitutional Change … A Tale of Two Referendums”

    This is VERY IMPORTANT and something I was unaware of.

    “Recent Scotcen polling suggests, unsurprisingly, that Scottish Remainers want continued access to the single market but so too do 92% of Leave voters in Scotland. In other words even those who voted Out in Scotland wanted to stay In.”

    So 92% of Leave voters say they want to stay in the single market. That is astonishingly high, if accurate,

    8% of Leave, i.e. 3% of all EURef voters actually want a Hard Brexit.

    When (not if) Brexit is clearly seen as Hard, the above must bode well for ScotRef based on avoiding a Hard Brexit.

  222. stu mac says:

    @Robert Peffers says:
    26 April, 2017 at 9:54 pm

    I hope you didn’t notice that the link you posted then was a rascist rant. This shows that many people hate the BBC for stuff it doesn’t do, for instance Tories who constantly accuse it of being left wing.

    There is much to criticise BBC for – and it is often a pro-establishment propaganda arm – but we should be careful who we align ourselves with when we attack it. Some folk would like it to be even more right wing than it is just now.

  223. Robert Graham says:

    waiting on broon marching up downing st to champion support for pensioners , has he been on the news yet ? , have i missed it ?

  224. Capella says:

    @ Robert Peffers – excellent video on the BBC bias posted above.
    I noticed this sidebar clip from Syria where Louise Doucet fails to interview Syrians because they are sick of BBC lies and propaganda.

    “The BBC reporter is Canadian Lyse Doucet. She is a major player in Chatham House which is a British NGO that is a propaganda tool of the British Establishment. Chatham House is also known as the “Tavistock Institute”, the UK branch of the CFR. She has been behind directing most of the ‘Arab spring’ coverage from Libya to Egypt. When she claims to know nothing about the lies told previously she is dishonest. She is not only a purveyor of the lies but she is an architect of the entire edifice of lies.”

  225. Breeks says:

    So this err,.. 5 year Brexit Transitional period that the UK is going to magnanimously grant itself, is that just like the Soft Brexit they promised themselves, with the continuing access to the EU’s Single Market, and the extension of time they’ve agreed with themselves on the 2 year Article 50 deadline?

    Not to mention that Theresa May can’t speak for Scotland in Brexit negotiations, and was threatening an EU Member State with war last month, and has cemented her memory in the hearts of all EU negotiators by getting the vital 18 months of trade negotiations off to a great start by calling a UK General Election.

    I am at a loss for words. This is all just simply surreal. It’s as if the Tory manifesto was written by Salvador Dali and shows the UK economy physically melting.

    I cannot think of any country throughout history which might serve as a parallel or yardstick to gauge how any of this is going to turn out.

    For many years, I got riled by the UK hypocrisy in demanding from Europe the very things which the UK would contemptuously deny Scotland, but my toes curl at my own naivety in believing “fairness” and “justice” were relevant factors which, given enough time, would shepherd the UK into recognising Scotland’s entitlement to self determination.

    How wrong I was. It isn’t a hard border we have between Gretna and Berwick, it’s some kind of “through the looking glass” prism that distorts everything that’s fair and honourable for the UK into bizarre delusional flights of fancy when it’s Scotland seeking to secure something that is equally fair and honourable. Oh no, no, no, fair and honourable applies only to UK rank and privilege. In the good ship United Kingdom, Scotland travels steerage.

    The UK can spend billions on its BBC Propaganda factory. Scotland can’t even get a station.
    The UK can spend billions on the obscenity of Nuclear Armageddon. Scotland doesn’t even get a say in where they are kept.
    The UK can tear itself out of Europe on the strength of a farcically corrupt and inept referendum. Scotland’s democratic objection is steamrollered and our own referendums ridiculed.
    The UK can squander Scotland’s natural resources for decades through criminal negligence and profligacy. Scotland can only forlornly contest baseless but interminable smears that we survive by the generosity of our charitable UK partners.
    The UK can seeks Empire 0.2 Trade Talks with India without recognising the merest hint of irony; UK blood and soil Imperial Nationalism is your patriotic duty. But in Scotland, our Civic, democratic, progressive and inclusive nationalism with a small “n” in Scotland is distorted, vilified and compared to treason.
    The bile of UK xenophobia has led to an increase in actual hate crime and killings, all inspired by the media. In Scotland we see hard working and decent new Scots who have made their lives here having their lives destroyed by Westminster’s 21st Century clearances.

    This lens we have at the border is a two way looking glass, because my own picture is now distorted and can I no longer recognise the England I thought I knew.

    As one country readies itself to take on the responsibility and challenge of its own sovereign responsibility, it seems there is another country making ready to ditch and abandon theirs.

  226. John H says:

    Breeks 10.10am

    Very well put Breeks. So if the UK has so obviously got no respect for Scotland, then why would they not interfere in our referendum?

  227. heedtracker says:

    Morning Nana! great to see back in the game:D

    LSE blog is interesting for coffee time,

    “It says something about Labour’s demise in Scotland that its chief role in the 2017 election may well be as a third-party influence on contests between the SNP and the Conservatives, rather than as a direct contender to win the largest share of Scottish seats.”

    Its interesting how these guys in say the LSE, exclude completely the BBC Scotland led media in Scotland. BBC Scotland alone has massive political power that they wield with merciless ferocity, yet they are clearly incapable of reviving SLab, so far. Eek.

    Is BBC Scotland herding SLab votes into the Ruth D social Conservative hoohaa?

  228. Chick McGregor says:

    Breeks. Well said, as usual.

    One contention, this special case attitude for Scotland, where Scots are seemingly regarded as almost subhuman or at least totally incapable, a country which the rest of the World has to be protected from, a people whom do not therefore have the same rights as the rest of humanity, has always been there but has been very well hidden until indyref1/SNP government.

    I don’t think it is just because of our vast natural resources, you know, biting the hand that feeds you syndrome? I think it runs a bit deeper than that.

    Perhaps more to do with a fear that Scots have been behind a lot of the intellectual contributions to the World which currently Britain (read England) gets the credit for.

    If not that, I do feel it is based on a deep rooted insecurity of some kind though.

  229. Robert Peffers says:

    @stu mac says: 27 April, 2017 at 9:45 am:

    “I hope you didn’t notice that the link you posted then was a rascist rant. This shows that many people hate the BBC for stuff it doesn’t do, for instance Tories who constantly accuse it of being left wing.
    There is much to criticise BBC for – and it is often a pro-establishment propaganda arm – but we should be careful who we align ourselves with when we attack it. Some folk would like it to be even more right wing than it is just now.”

    I think you have just made one of my points for me, stu mac. Which point is that the BBC is generally seen by almost everyone as a biased organisation. Even by those who vote for one of the Westminster Unionist parties.

    So consider exactly what that means. It means exactly what I have so often claimed here on Wings.

    I’ll now claim it again for you.

    The Establishment is very like some of the very large families quite common when I was a boy. I had several school pals who belonged to such a family.

    Here is a true incident that happened to me while visiting one such family. The father was a Third Officer on a BP Tanker and arrive home on leave laden with gifts for the big family of children.

    I was hovering on the outskirts waiting on my pal as we were going to watch a Leith Athletic football match. The father called me over and stuck a package in my hand saying, “which one are you. The sixth or the seventh? I can never remember which of you is Hugh or Jim”.

    Now I was often more in that household than I was in my own and it was always pandemonium as they constantly fought among each other like ferrets in a poke.

    Yet if any one of them had a problem with an outsider that person took on the whole family who provided a solid opposition.

    That’s The Establishment to a Tee and Labour will claim the BBC is anti-Labour when the Tories are the government and the Tories will scream BBC bias when Labour are in power while the LibDems will just scream bias anyway.

    This is because the paymaster of the BBC is whatever government is in power not just the Establishment as paymaster – but let an outsider threaten the Establishment and the Unionist stand shoulder to shoulder.

    The point is that the BBC is indeed biased. Not so long ago here in Scotland and BBC Scotland was biased very much in favour of Labour. As Labour became the third party behind the Tories the BBC is demonstratively now pushing Davidson and the Tories and now Scottish Labour also claim the BBC is biased. Yet Labour will still back the BBC against the SNP.

    If a miracle were to happen, and Labour form the next Westminster Government, the BBC’s paymaster would change overnight as would the BBC bias.

    I’ll put that another way – the BBC are mainly the official Government Propaganda Broadcaster but will be biased against any outside threat to the Establishment.

    BTW: I don’t think I said to align ourselves with anyone. I suggested we used them.

  230. Dr Jim says:

    Kezia Dugdale on Adam Boultons All out politics program
    squealing in her highest ever most squealy voice that the SNP are just as Baad as anything in the world could ever be and she doesn’t care if she’s doomed as long as she gets to squeal all the way to the end

    The thing was though Adam didn’t mention the SNP directly he was talking about an alliance to keep the Tories OUT

    Kezia doesn’t favour keeping the Tories out though

  231. Chick McGregor says:

    “Morning Nana! great to see back in the game:D ”

    Concur, and to pursue the metaphor

    Nana Nana Nana, Hey Hey Hey, Wings Eleven! 🙂

  232. Macart says:

    If this is true, both Conservative political rhetoric and the entire media have a LOT to answer for.

    It appears the Jo Cox tragedy wasn’t warning enough to our political class.

  233. Capella says:

    Had to hunt around to find any mention of the “suspicious package” attack in Angus Council building. It’s well hidden in the Tayside section, under the “more” drop down list…
    No mention of the “SNP out – Tories IN” message though.

    If it was easier to find then people would click it to bump up the “most read” count and follow the “cars get stuck in wet cement at BP garage” most popular yesterday story.

  234. Chick McGregor says:


    Shocking! What if it does contain anthrax? What if other SNP controlled councils or MSPs, MPs are at risk?

    Surely there is a duty of care here regarding alerting possible targets?

  235. Capella says:

    @ Macart – snap!
    The BBC are trying to keep a lid on the “suspicious package” story. It’s front page on the Courier though.

    Can you imagine the furore if the political message had been the other way round. What’s the chance of this type of attack escalating unless the perpetrators can be found and named quickly – whoever they may be.

    We can’t rule out “false flag” ops either. A very sad development.

  236. meg merrilees says:

    BBC R4 TODAY programme sunk to a new low – quite an achievement for the BBC.
    (2 hours:45mins and 45 secs in )

    Sarah Smith heads up a new series. Guess what?

    Which SNP seats are most at risk from the Tories?

    This woman is the daughter of John Smith – she is betraying her own father and her labour views to support and proselytise the tories against the SNP. Accepting money to betray Scotland…

    Let’s start with Angus Robertson’s seat, the leader of the SNP at WM- Moray.

    Predictable formula – she tells us how good it used to be in beautiful Moray, how unhappy the people are and how they are flocking to the Tories now because Labour is no alternative. Lossiemouth and genteel Elgin were her targets.

    Interviews 5 people:
    Retired fisherman, was SNP but now not sure, who remembers the good old days that have vanished. Didn’t say yes when asked if he would vote tory but did a nervous laugh and said “They don’t tell you too much, like, which is annoying”

    An SNP supporter who will still vote SNP and says that ” since the Tory gov got in it’s brought this country to it’s knees”.

    Young tory activist – no comment.

    Alt least she does interview an SNP activist – have to be seen to be balanced, eh?

    Woman who is sick of hearing about independence who has had doubts for the last few months and may vote tory.

    What rubbish- it proves nothing and I have my doubts as to whether it should be broadcast in Scotland 6 days before we go to an election.

    If the BBC is impartial, I look forward to hearing the reports about some of the other seats being targeted by other non -Tory parties ( they do exist) including Mundell’s seat.

    BUT I’m not holding my breath…

  237. heedtracker says:

    We’ll probably never know if Ruth D’s an incompetent, a liar sure but she is one of the UK zone’s greatest flip floppers, EU style. Germans aint buying UK tory bullshit though.

    “A third country can not be bettered than a member of the European Union, said Merkel. “I have the feeling that some in the UK are still making illusions, but that would be wasted time.”

    British supporters of the EU exit had suggested, among other things, in the election campaign before the referendum last year that the Kingdom could get rid of any commitments, but still benefit from the Union.”

    Brexit’s going to be really hard.

  238. Proud Cybernat says:

    If this is true, both Conservative political rhetoric and the entire media have a LOT to answer for.

    Which is precisely why this awful story will be thoroughly suppressed in the colonial MSM. Of course, had the message in the package read “Tories OUT – SNP IN” it would have been all over the colonial MSM. You could bet your life on it. And it won’t surprise me there will soon follow a false flag event – just to balance things out. It’s how they operate.


  239. Phil Robertson says:

    “Assuming there actually is a shortfall”

    No need to assume – there is a shortfall.

    “that the responsibility for the cuts are solidly placed in the hands of the Westminster Treasury and the Tory party austerity regime”

    “The big boy from Westminster done it” argument doesn’t hold here although it does illustrate the shallowness of your political analysis. This is tax devised and entirely managed by the Scottish Government. You share the same space as the Brexiteers who blame immigration from the Indian sub-continent on “Brussels”.

    “no one but numpties like you would even dream about placing the responsibility upon either John Swinney or the SG.”
    As already explained (more than once) the responsibility, in this instance, DOES lie with the Scottish Government.

  240. Macart says:


    Remember the days when Murphy was egged and Murray’s constuency office had a sticker applied to the door? Wall to wall coverage on every channel and every title.

    Suspicious packages are delivered to SNP constituency offices, one for certain containing both a political statement and chemical substance and near silence.

    Dear God, what have they come to? This is their better together, their idea of unity?

    Intimidation, violence, threats of violence and all instigated by political rhetoric and media compliance.

  241. galamcennalath says:

    Let’s review the Unionist moral code …

    Separatism is very bad – unless of course it’s UK separatism in relation to the EU, then it’s simply taking back control.

    Nationalism is very bad – unless it’s Anglo-British nationalism which is healthy, wholesome, and really doesn’t exist anyway.

    Undermining democracy is very bad – unless it’s only point out ‘now is not the time’.

    Taking money from the state is very bad – unless it’s as a tax cut.

    Fake news is very bad – unless it’s spread by the mainstream print and broadcast media, then it’s just the news where you are.

    Online abuse is very bad – unless it’s by Unionists, then it’s just humour and banter.

    Lying is very bad – unless it’s political and aimed at saving the Union.

  242. Bob Mack says:

    Re the suspicious packages. Am I surprised? Not in the least.
    The Tories have been actively recruiting among the lower echelons of the loyalists. This is only an extension of that policy. Knuckledraggers way of making their point.

    The ante is upping all the time, and our wonderful state media is duly hiding the facts from the public. I take this ,regardless of what was in the message, or indeed the contents to be a direct and powerful threat to the safety of our representatives.

    The State and it’s mechanisms and manipulated lackeys are now in full Unionist mode. Keep calm ,we will prevail. I will not back down ,and in fact I will double my efforts now to be rid of the poison in our midst, which seems an appropriate phrase to use at this juncture..

    Fear? No chance. We are seeing their fear by these acts and that tells me very clearly they are worried we are winning.

    The Tories have much to answer for re scotland. This joins the list.

  243. Sarah says:

    At risk of being thought a bore, what about urging Scottish Government to ask for election and media monitoring from OSCE?

  244. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Remember the days when Murphy was egged and Murray’s constuency office had a sticker applied to the door?”

  245. Macart says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Haud the front pages… 🙂

  246. Az says:

    Should we be concerned that already the twitter link from Emma Harper “doesn’t exist”?

    Funny, I was just telling a mate about Willie Macrae yesterday. The UK is a horror show at times.

  247. Jack Murphy says:

    Thanks Nana for all your links this morning at 6:26am.

    This one is of particular interest,when the words of the Director of the BBC in Scotland,Donalda MacKinnon spoken last year,is still ringing in Scotland’s ears,”My mission is to restore trust in the BBC”.
    How’s that going BBC Scotland?

    The link above is one of many exposing the ‘inadequacies’ [polite term] of the BBC juggernaut in Scotland.

  248. Chick McGregor says:

    “At risk of being thought a bore, what about urging Scottish Government to ask for election and media monitoring from OSCE?”

    When asked, they said they couldn’t unless invited by the UK Government.

    But I’m pretty sure they have monitored elsewhere against a governments wishes.

  249. Macart says:

    @Chic McGregor

    At the moment I don’t believe it’s a confirmed threat Chic. Best to mark as ‘unknown substance’ as yet. How and ever, that packages, albeit possibly harmless, are being delivered is NOT good.

    The rhetoric ramped up by the Tories, the media and before them the Brexiteers last year is having an effect on the more impressionable and unstable of their following.

    At some point it may go beyond the harmless. There is every possibility this may end in yet another tragedy if the politicians don’t wind back the stupid and reckless behaviour.

  250. clipper says:


    Nothing boring about it at all. If private, genuine polling done by the colonial government in Westminster was/is showing a lead for indy support then only a fool would deny that they’d do absolutely anything to try to stem it, and that of course includes not only anti-Scottish propaganda, false flag stuff but also rigging the vote.

    OSCE probably not the best to monitor it though, they’d probably end up just coming out with whatever May wants them to.

    If the SNP aren’t taking this seriously then they are failing in their duty.

  251. gus1940 says:

    Let us not forget that although Fraser Nelson of the weird accent is Editor of the Spectator his boss is our old pal The BBC’s alleged neutral political commentator Brillo Pad who reports to the actual owners of the rag namely the loathesome Barclay Brothers who of course also own that other unionist rag The Telegraph.

    I see that Stephen Gethins is on the QT Panel tonight along with 1 Lab,1 Lib and 2 Tories (3 if you count Dimbleby).

    Good old BBC – what else can we expect but no doubt Gethins will more than hold his own just as long as Dimbleby doesn’t use his usual tactic of interrupting, arguing and shutting up SNP panel members when they show any sign of impressing.

  252. Sarah says:

    @Chick McGregor and clipper – sorry for slow response but I’ve been out ever since I posted. Thanks for your thoughts re OSCE.

    I had fairly high hopes because Craig Murray seemed to know about, and trust, their expertise and influence. Also Wikipedia shows that UK has never held any office in the organisation, nor hosted any meetings, so I thought the other members wouldn’t be overawed or particularly supportive of UK Government.

    Craig did say that UK Government had to make the request but he suggested the Scottish Government could write to OSCE and at the same time ask the UK Government to back the request – it would be embarrassing for them to refuse.

    So I will be writing to SNP MP/MSPs about it tomorrow.

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