Huddle Formation
To the surprise of most of those watching, including ourselves, the Court Of Session delivered its judgement immediately at the end of today’s hearing, after only the most cursory of conflabs between the three august panel members.
The short version is that the Scottish Government lost, and must now comply with Wings reader Benjamin Harrop‘s FOI request regarding evidence that was supplied to independent adviser James Hamilton during his inquiry into the unlawful investigation of false allegations against Alex Salmond.
We must be careful what we say at this point, because to cut a very complicated story short, the potential outcomes of this ruling include people we won’t name possibly being placed very firmly in an extremely uncomfortable position regarding seriously and inescapably criminal acts, with ramifications that we don’t think it even remotely an exaggeration to describe as “apocalyptic”.
As Lord Carloway notes at the end of the clip above, the Scottish Government is now likely to as we speak be running around in a squawking panic trying to find loopholes which will allow it to redact some or all of the material before it provides it to Mr Harrop. It remains to be seen to what degree they succeed.
So far as the law allows, Wings will of course keep you posted.
Wonderful result and wonderful speed of reporting by you, Rev. Many thanks.
Can’t wait to see what the Scottish “government” produces for our scrutiny.
Holy smoke batman?
Gosh, didn’t see that coming. Could this possibly be the commencement of the Scots judicial system reasserting its’ independence from the Executive and actually returning to being an impartial arbitrer.
Let’s just hope that there will be those tonight feeling apprehensive at not perhaps being as untouchable as they had assumed.
Split infinitive screaming at me.
So, 37 pages of big black squares then?
Wow, so used to the Scottish government getting their own way regarding the legal system that it’s a shock to me, and no doubt to them, when a decision goes against them!
I’m not a lawyer/solicitor so forgive my ignorance but is there not a higher court they can appeal the decision to? UK Supreme court? Which would come with a particular irony for a supposed pro-indy party appealing to a UK court…
Gaun yerself Mr Harrop.
SNPG – Get it right f**kin up you.
I’m a bit worried that things may turn with new negotiations about the changes in power that the Scottish Government is seeking re the courts.
I see bargaining chips being laid out. Many people in various areas of legal and governmental positions were culpable in the case of Mr Salmond and I think the Justice system and the Government have both got many skeletons in their cupboards.
I’m always negative these days. There are people who behaved so very badly that…
Game on ……..
Slowly but surely the truth will come out! Then maybe we can get back to taking our independence?
Hooray!(???). Is this the continuation of the end or only the end of the continuation?(cos it certainly doesn’t feel like the beginning of anything!). Are any costs to be awarded against SG? If I had been the judge I would have seriously wanted to award punitive costs against the lawyerly buffoon I watched dithering, humming and ha-ing for over 40 minutes without apparently saying anything of any value or substance whatsoever! I gave up out of sheer self protection to stop my brain leaking out of my ears. My only take away was to wonder how in all that’s deified could the Scottish public have to pay for all this twaddle? And then to reflect that the guy was probably charging more for an hour of his time than I could earn in a month. Do lawyers get paid by the minute for speechifying pointlessly?
David Davis sitting in the back. He’s a great man. An honourable man. I went along to the fringe festival show. He’s a truth teller. A good honest Tory politician. I hope he can help Scotland free itself from corruption.
Thank you.
Hats off Mr Harrop! I spent about four years trying to extract information from the Electoral Commission about the investigation into Wendy Alexander’s dodgy donation and ended up stymied. I’m gobsmacked that you won this one…
Most Excellent!! Wonder why none of this is on the BBC……
“The Court Of Session delivered its judgement immediately at the end of today’s hearing”.
No clearer way of saying that the action should never have been brought and that the Court’s time should not have been wasted. Remind me, does this Government have prior?
Is printing black ink on big blacked out pieces of paper to make statements and records all black completely racists?
How many documents will have been accidently shredded?
David Davis was there. He cares about Scotland. He’s is a guardian of truth and honesty in this country. Massive respect thank you for being in there for us. I have hope for the future because of his presence.
Our country must cleanse and heal. We must drain the swamp to move forward.
Thank you.
Devolved government to Scotland, totally transparent under black redacted ink.
A lot of taxpayer’s money is about to be blown on Sharpies… in addition to that already wasted today by that parcel o’ rogues at HR and their pet snakes in the UK civil service, trying to keep certain peoples’ arses out the fire.
The whole stinking, incompetent, corrupt, edifice that is the SNP maladministration needs tearing down!
Well done Benjamin!
& Well done Stu for having the balls to cover it where other media fails.
The little people won, for a change! Politicians are not above the law to hide whatever they like.
The public paid for this shite & full transparency wins the day.
Good decision for Scotland, and for our once respected but recently (Sturgeon-era) horrifically beleaguered and badly tarnished Legal reputation.
I sure hope this leads to tall oaks.
Music to my ears. Hopefully this is the start of the crooks getting their comeuppance. But as times have taught us, i will not be holding my breath. Meanwhile, i’ll make the most of this wee victory. Makes up for the Scotland Women’s football teams dire performance last night. 🙂
See if these rat bags try and redact. Well I would actually read out the information in London tonight.
David Davis. God bless you. He loves Scotland. He wants to help.
Steve a
What I said on the other thread too. So much dithering umming & ahing – it was a work of art.
Great news Stu.
I saw Saltire’s in the sky today.
Break the chains.
Has anyone checked the location of the Murrels campervan lately?
Body language of the judges spoke volumes, didn’t it?
Didn’t even go backstage for a quick cuppa, just a wee conflab. And yon windbag representing the SG knew he was about to get his arse kicked.
Lol at this heading too. It was a huddle formation lol
I’d have expected them to do that deliberation in private.
Common as muck lol
BBC must have heard me – now front and centre of the Scottish News section! 😀
What’s the chances of more history being made before this is over?
The costs of the cover up and the cover up of the cover up will eventually need a historic further penny in the pound Tartan Tax!
Like many other posters on here, I’m sick of footing the bill for this panto.
Wings over Scotland. A guardian of Scotland. You have helped our country stay free. Thank you.
Aurelien’s latest on colonialism and immigration, https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/bringing-it-all-back-home, is highly entertaining if you like mocking intersectionalists and wokery in general.
It’s utterly off topic, but then again, perhaps not. The conclusion of the essay is that change is coming. It would seem that the legal establishment here likely feel it too and to avoid getting their bollocks thrust onto the chopping block, as the price of their recent missteps, they might now be feeling inclined to reassert their position in society and throw the government under the bus – since they’re on the way out anyway.
The above is also interesting for it’s description of what colonialism was most likely in practice. Your image, and this is likely to irritate Alf Baird enormously. of suppression and violence was probably fabricated in the 1960s, and the reality is more akin to a thousand NGOs all trying to solve local problems by bringing western values to societies that weren’t really interested. How times haven’t really changed.
There’s a few lessons in there for us too, probably most notably the parceling out of professional jobs to folk who come here with the idea of improving things – much like our dear old friend the Duke of Sutherland. It’s jobs not values that really matter.
Change is coming. Don’t bother with transient trans rights and rainbows made from the rain of tears from the sexually oppressed. You should be thinking five to ten years out when the shit really starts to hit the fan. It’s time to prepare.
Looks like the Scottish Govt has gone too far even for the legal profession.
They turned the inquiry into their wasting money on the Judicial Review into a retrial of Alex Salmond. I wonder how they will spin the upcoming one?
God, I hate them for what they’ve done to Scotland. And to our cause. They’ve poisoned everything they’ve touched. This is just another humiliation along the way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67635081
Judge throws out bid to withhold Nicola Sturgeon inquiry evidence
Excellent and very welcome news.
David Hannah- we get it! You love David Davis but 3 posts within about 20mins expressing as such is a little weird don’t you think? I too saw him get trounced in debate at the opening night of Alex Salmond’s Edinburgh Festival show btw.
Excellent news, but what possible loopholes could they offer, I mean its not as if national security was/is at stake.
S&G we ant to redact this and that because?
It shows what a bunch of lying conniving swines we are, no that’s not going to fly.
We want to redact this because we had advise/help from a third party that if the information gets out would blow peoples minds.
No names mentioned but they know who they are within the Scottish government post 2015, they thoroughly deserve any comeuppance coming their way.
Well done Benjamin Harrop and Stu, Wings journalism is far superior and more accurate compared to MSM journalism.
So I assume they will release the information bur not actually naming the women.
Given it will show conspiracy to pervert the course if justice how will that work. Will the women involved face charges
BBC misreporting AGAIN.
‘Mr Hamilton cleared Ms Sturgeon of breaching the ministerial code, but expressed frustration that his report had been heavily redacted.’
He didn’t clear Sturgeon at all. He said it was for parliament committee to decide & they DID NOT clear her.
Can they never get anything right?
Slightly weird. God bless Benjamin Harrop. A truth teller and freedom fighter!
I want to know all the details immediately. I’ll just have to keep subscribing to Wings Over Scotland.
Steady as she goes
Gerri. Get on the phone to the BBC. Get them told. I wonder if Kirsty Wark, Sarah Smith or Dani Garavaelli wrote that lie. I think I can hear them shouting from the BBC studio toilets as we speak.
Not much in the BBC about it.
Why would the bbc protect them. Hmmmm let me think
James Cook. I can hear Sarah Smith shouting from the female toilets. I can hear her saying to her camera man. They’ll never believe woman Hs lies now.
Beat you to it Stu! I declared the result at 1.04pm and put it on the previous post after watching the morning session. It was so clear cut even a pleb. like me could tell what it would be.
Squeaky bums now hoping those big felt tipped redactors don’t run dry.
Mr Harrop I hope you enjoy the marrow of that particular bone , well done wishing you every success .
Oops bbc have it now. No mention of the story then front page
Oh dear I think Ben is about to get his home broken into and kiddie porn planted on his laptop and desktop by the rabid and posionos Feminists, Trans Nazis and Wokists. I hope he is being extra careful about his security and health.
@Stuart MacKay says:6 December, 2023 at 4:03 pm
most notably the parceling out of professional jobs to folk who come here with the idea of improving things
And as if by magic, oor auld Wings BTL friend – the BBC – gets a new chairman this very day.
Turns out he’s not from these parts – anybody want to claim to be surprised?
Stuart MacKay @ 4:03 pm
“what colonialism was most likely in practice”
Interesting article, however, it does not alter the main definition of colonialism, the key bulwark against which is national consciousness. Hence the importance of a fowk’s ain langage which is what gives a people their identity.
Our REDACTED who art in REDACTED, REDACTED be thy REDACTED. Thy REDACTED come, Thy will be REDACTED In REDACTED as it is in REDACTED. Give REDACTED this REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED bread and REDACTED REDACTED our REDACTED as REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED who REDACTED against REDACTED. and REDACTED REDACTED not into REDACTED but REDACTED REDACTED from REDACTED. For REDACTED is the REDACTED, the REDACTED and the REDACTED, For REDACTED and REDACTED. amen.
The Lords prayer as provided in evidence to Hamilton? As provided by SG in response to the FOIS following this ruling…. i can’t say i’m getting my hopes up that anything intelligible will be released.
All in all a good day, for me personally what ever the SNP/SG does, if it ends in failure pleases me to no ends. I despise them more than the Unionist, the quicker the SNP goes bust and their chucked out of office the better that’s all I live for. What ever comes later is a bonus.
The truth is Nicola Sturgeon conspired to put her former mentor in prison on false allegations and has lied and lied and lied and lied again to hide the truth at the cost of millions and now so far. 3 lost court cases.
Time to redact Sturgeon from history.
BBC says:
“But having lost, the government could potentially find other reasons not to publish these documents. There are other exemptions and court orders they could lean on, should they wish.”
So perhaps it’s not coming out in the wash after all. 🙁
Finally some good news, Mr Harrop you are an absolute legend! Let the house of cards come tumbling down
Its my understanding even if the SNP does REDACT this information wanted by Benjamin Harrop he can take it back to the SIC and state its been over redacted and the SIC would have to see if it comply’s with his request or not.
David W Ferguson @ 3:36 pm
“Hats off Mr Harrop!”
Who he?
I’ve read his 2021 WoS article, which did not appear to me to be written by a 22 year old.
Best to keep in mind that individuals may now go un-prosecuted when deemed to be acting in the interests of UK state security. Jist sayin.
Take the information out of the Governments hands. Let’s have a wings article on all the information.
It’s even sweeter knowing a Wings reader has won. It’s great to have Wings Over Scotland. Hope over fear.
No way. Benjamin. Just a young that believes in the truth. Thank you.
Giesabrek: don’t be surprised. Methinks the judiciary and the rest of the legal profession are sick to the back teeth of this government always expecting them to clear up the messes they have made precisely because they did not follow the existing law, did not listen to those who did know the law and/or trampled over written law in order to appease somebody or other, usually Stonewall and its arms. The judiciary, in particular, is beginning to find its backbone again. We await the outcome of this ruling with bated breath.
Has Mike Russell left the building yet?
Oh dear. Dear me. Toilet time at Alphabet Towers I would imagine. Given the almost contemptuous dismissal of the appeal I think the judicial patience may snap if this rabble try any clever-dick antics, and this does not seem to be a Court that messes around.
All this may leave the assembly party with little alternative to spaffing a few more 10Ks Sterling of your money against the wall by running to the UK Supreme Court to buy some time; in which case I will struggle not to raise a wry smile.
What we need is a whistleblower.
There must be many within the SG who could access/ download/ distribute the evidence.
Protection of PIDA given this judgement.
Is there anyone on this site who works for the SG – has a sense of justice – wants to do the right thing & bring this shower down & expose one of the worst if not the worst political trials in UK history?
You’d also save us millions in legal fees!
We live in a deep fried banana Republic. You are right Tartan Tory.
The Scottish Government will not release this information.
We have to speak it ourselves. For liberty from corruption.
We have to do it to free our country.
Lorna Campbell @ 5.18. “the judiciary…sick to the back teeth..”
I watched the complete broadcast of the case and came to the same conclusion. The judges were polite, but their questions to the Government’s KC left no dobts as to what they thought of the case.
When the Commissioer’s KC addressed them, they were almost eager to feed him lines of argument to support his case. It was a pity that he didn’t take the hint just before the lunch break that he needn’t say any more, or it would have been done and dusted by one o’ clock, game over.
No point in thinking the SNP will stop banging their heads against a brick wall though. They haven’t got the brains to see they are alienating everyone by their stupidity. That matters a lot when you have burnt your boats with the courts. Any case the SNP bring will be tainted by their secrecy and disingenuity.
They have been rumbled big style, and the sooner they are gone the faster Scotland can start repairing the terrible mess they are leaving behind. It really hurts to see it.
You know that the law is an ass when you can’t publicly mention the truth.
Came across this recently and has a lot of parallels to our Nicola Sturgeon:
https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/27/from-feminist-champion-to-persona-non-grata-what-happened-to-spains-equality-minister
Fingers crossed that the truth will out!
However, apart from tribalism I don’t see why Unionists on here are treating this as such a good one handed read, the Conservatives are in melt down, Labours big come back is basically despite themselves and are spiralling into the trap of copying nosediving Conservative policies and as for Lib Dem’s; who?
Hopefully the SNP gets picked up by the ankles and given the mother of all shakes to get rid of the entryists and grifters.
As his Lordship stated:
‘Obviously the Scottish Government will wish to consider if any exemptions apply..’
Youbettya!
John MOAN said
Like many other posters on here, I’m sick of footing the bill for this panto.
As you have said repeatedly John Boy “don’t just speak about it, DO SUMFIN” we’re all behind you, maybes you could even call on some of yir mates like Chas or A SCAB who are also SICK of SG waistin yir fuckin money, I know stert a political party and weel aw join , c’mon teacher, teach
@ Geri 4.22pm I noticed those lies as well, BBC LIES
@ Tartan tory 4.57pm my sentiments also , the scum will seek every escape
Yes I saw this tweeted by David Davis MP on twitter earlier. Such a quick judgement is one on the nose for Scotgov. It means the court saw through their arguments very quickly. So they did not hold any legal water.
In short the Big Boys did it and then walked calmly away.
@PacMan says:6 December, 2023 at 6:05 pm
The reform was a direct response to the infamous …
Even I have heard the saying “hard cases make bad law”. Sad, but not surprising that a Spanish government minister should be so ignorant.
Fernando Vallespín, professor of political science
Liking it. A professional propagandist and liar has an apt name. Maybes that’s Spanish law. Maybes we should apply it here.
But a good parallel with oor very ain National Mammie. BTW, is the Continuity Incompetence Candidate filling that role as well?
Jings even the British Colonial Broadcaster has noted this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67635081
Why would the bbc say Hamilton said she did not mislead parliament when we know that is not true
Are the just shoddy journalists or is there a reason they lie
Well done Benjamin for your FOI determination and to Stu for his journalistic integrity. Also with a staff of only 24 The ICO team is proving their transparency worth in Gold. And on this occasion the Judiciary, the big boys played a blinder with their judgement and put down huddle at the end. The edifice is about to collapse. Justice will prevail.
Sure looks like the Scottish Legal system ain’t scared no more of the Wicked Witch.
But like all lawyers, they invite the Government to look through the small print to find a loophole to squirm out of this. I’m sure they don’t need to be that encouraging. Sounds like a cop-out to explain a weak and diluted costs ruling heading our way.
Note to self -must read up about procedure; are M’Lords bowing to The People when they take their leave, or to someone / something else. Who are they actually accountable to?
So, a not so merry christmas for certain folk in Scotland this year. Just waiting for that knock on their door. Good. I hope they have a right miserable time.
And just remember, NONE of this was necessary. The investigation, the silly court cases by the Scottish government (including today, which they also lost). None of it.
The truth will come out eventually.
Geri @ 4.22pm and Twathater @ 6.24.
I have formally complained to the BBC about the false way they are reporting “the clearing” of Nicola Sturgeon by James Hamilton, and have asked them to correct what they have said.
I’m not holding my breath, but if more people contact the BBC and complain it might just have some effect.
O/T
I wonder if this is the start of the Scottish Green Party getting back to their roots and actually supporting Green issues?
https://archive.is/C77CR
It will be interesting to see if ross rakes a pop at them at first ministers questions or if he soft balls it
Young Lochinvar, there would be nobody left to empty the bins.
John Main says: 6 December, 2023 at 6:30 pm
Why ask me?
Reading your comments it does sounds like you have too much time on your hands. Why not take up a hobby like fly fishing? I heard a good book by J. R. Hartley gives a few tips.
Lorna Campbell @ 5:18 pm
“The judiciary, in particular, is beginning to find its backbone again”
Aye, tho perhaps on everything else but the core of the matter, Lorna, which remains a judgement on the mankit Treaty of Union itself. Much of this nonsense is arguably the result of ongoing dubious actions of UK civil servants who serve a different master, i.e. not Scotland.
The Scottish judiciary must be aware that ‘Scots Law’ is under severe threat now from Westminster and its colonial administration at Holyrood. The only protection for a distinct Scottish national legal system is national sovereignty. This is the matter that really needs to be answered by Scotland’s highest court, and preferably while it still exists and has authority.
Good news and well done Stu,
Keep the news flowing and investigation going.
The BBC was involved in the conspiracy. With the Kirsty Wark retrial.
They heard the evidence about Woman A and woman H.
That woman H organised the whatsapp group. To go and source would be complainers. They heard that the police would go and tell them they had been sexually assaulted and to come forward.
They know woman H attempted rape allegations was perjury. Such as. Her arm being in a cast hurt in a cycling accident.
She wasn’t at the dinner. She got the details from Alex Salmond’s book the dream shall never die. As Tasmina Ahmed Shikhs father died, and the football match.
She wasn’t there. Lied about her nickers and being raped. As low as you can get.
Reprimanded 4 times by Lady Dorian for contempt of court for trying to lead the jury.
And Sarah Smith was overheard saying to her camera man. They would never believe woman H.
The majority female jury. Didn’t.
That didn’t stop Dani Garavaelli. James Cook. Kirsty Wark and Sarah Smith. Going in to smear Alex salmond as guilty despite being found innocent.
And there’s the rest. I wonder if anyone knows details of any of the other false allegations such a the Stirling Castle incident? What happened there?
No one believed the lies.
Nothing I hate more than seeing a good man’s name dragged through the dirt. The corruption. The conspiracy. The lies about Independence. The misuse of public funds.
Lady Dorian wanting to abolish juries. Her Jailing Craig Murray. She’s tried to destroy freedom of the press in Scotland with her two tier ruling.
She hates juries. We cant let them get away with it again. They will abuse their power. They will jail the political opponents.
The cover ups. Lies upon lies. Demented smears and innuendos and retrials. Abusing the mechanisms of the state.
Sturgeon’s day of reckoning is coming.
You could go on and on. She’s damaged the reputation of our institutions. No one ever resigns.
We need to end corruption now. Set the truth free.
I listen to Silver Fox Hot Takes. He’s a Unionist political commentator that despises the SNP. He can’t wait to see Sturgeon hand over the keys of Bute House and the motorhome to Alex Salmond in a private prosecution.
After a likely stint in Corton Vale. Ahaha. Get it fucking up her.
We’ve waited long enough for justice.
I am not a lawyer and I did not watch the entire proceedings. Am I right that the Scottish Government argued that the document was not their document albeit it was held by them and actually was Mr Hamilton’s. Perhaps someone could clarify.
If that was the SG argument would it be appropriate to ask Mr Hamilton to make his report available?
The SG claimed that the document was held on behalf of Hamilton, and therefore they didn’t hold it within the meaning of the legislation. The judges disagreed.
Mr Hamilton would be stepping outside the bounds of his remit if he were to publish the report himself, so he won’t do that, especially as it will no doubt contain sensitive information some of which could put him in contempt of court if published it.
@PacMan says:6 December, 2023 at 6:55 pm
sounds like you have too much time on your hands
Naw.
Takes hardly any time to put together a few posts about the world-leading clusterfuck the SNP and the wee pretendy parliament with its wee pretendy FM has imposed on my country.
Considering there’s 5.5 million of us, what’s far more remarkable is just how few care enough to ever post about what they think. Maybes they don’t care.
The silent majority right enough.
BTW, there’s a chipper 100 yards away. Why would I ever need to catch my ain fish?
@PacMan says:6 December, 2023 at 6:49 pm
I wonder if this is the start of the Scottish Green Party getting back to their roots and actually supporting Green issues?
Here’s a wee quote from the article:
‘Ms Gomersall said the role had taken a toll on her health. She said: “Much has been spoken about in recent times of the risk of burnout faced disproportionately by women and young people in the party, and I fear that I have come dangerously close to becoming another victim of this in recent months.
“I have increasingly seen the impact this role is having on my mental health and on my friendships, and I simply have to put a stop to it.”‘
So, I’d say the answer to your question is naw.
She’s just another snowflake bailing when tasked with doing a job of work.
I can’t entirely blame her though – the eejits who vote her and her similarly untalented compadres into office are also culpable.
I’d not defend a lot of what goes on in Westminster, but this matter implies that ScotGov under the SNP is now very firmly in Banana Republic territory.
And we still have Branchform to report yet. While all would think that the police should be able to conduct their investigations with due diligence and without a running commentary, there’s fast approaching a very finite limit on how much time and no information that can be expected. Over two years, and 20 detectives? What are they investigating if it isn’t public money corruption over government spending? It certainly ain’t about small change and someone with their fingers in the SNP till.
@David Hannah 7:17pm
Your synopsis is basically how I recalled the live proceedings of the Salmond trial and aftermath. But you forget to add Sturgeons comment. I will paraphrase “Just because a person was found innocent doesn’t mean they werent guilty “. I would agree the BBC reported the narrative they had formulated previously as if Alex Salmond was bound to be found guilty. The intoxication of “Me Too” clouded their judgment. Balanced BBC investigation and reporting was lost in the Oestrogen.
I suspect a Scot Abroad. It’s the £600 MILLION Pounds as revealed by Penny Morodant that Nicola Sturgeon has given to Sanjeev Gupta to bail out his smelting business.
And a hell of a lot more corruption to come.
The dogs are barking. But the caravan keeps on rolling. But for how long?
Mr Harrop needs to post a comment on here that he is of sound and happy mind,
and looking forward to a long and fruitful future,
and he doesn`t take drink or drugs.
The estabishment are nasty c@nts.
This is way out of Mr. Harrops hands now. He just primed the fuse. The Sottish Information Commissioner set it off.
The toothpaste is out of the tube now and the SNP will struggle to get it back in. It will be very messy.
Sturgeon did well to get out when she did. What a legacy she has left. Who thinks Humza is the right person to sort out the mess?
Frank Spencer would make a better job of it.
Sounds to me like the judge was saying, “we’re not going to hide it for you, but you have other means to hide it for yourself without getting us involed”. Or is that too cynical?
Donald.
A wee bit cynical.
“Don’t ask us to do your dirty work” is about right I think
‘David Hannah says:
6 December, 2023 at 8:46 pm
I suspect a Scot Abroad. It’s the £600 MILLION Pounds as revealed by Penny Morodant that Nicola Sturgeon has given to Sanjeev Gupta to bail out his smelting business.
And a hell of a lot more corruption to come.
The dogs are barking. But the caravan keeps on rolling. But for how long?’
I thought the Polis had seized it ?
Wally Jumblatt
“Note to self -must read up about procedure; are M’Lords bowing to The People when they take their leave, or to someone / something else. Who are they actually accountable to?”
I believe they’re answerable to the Crown. That Gold light saber thingie I believe is in his stead. Same thing happens in Westminster when black rod knock the door on the opening of parliament & carry it in/lay it on the despatch box. Parly can’t sit without it.
It seems a throwback to the Catholic Church & the tabernacle where the holy Eucharist is held (in the wee gold cupboard) for the presence of Christ.
I believe Scotland did similar before the union only our was symbolic that Royalty would listen to the ppl. Not the Protestant version of devine right to rule & parly is to listen to them.
Sturgeon’s team preferred burner phones…….I wonder why?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-avoided-using-official-phones-as-first-minister-3plsd5d05
Great reporting once again rev and all credit to Me Harrop for his tenacity.
This is where hopefully the sturgeon finds that adrenaline comes in the form of a brown stain.
Humza is so weak & doesn’t have the smarts.
He should’ve called Sturgeons bluff the moment he was elected & distanced himself from her shenanigans immediately & cut her loose.
He is way out of his depth & he is tainted too. Lay with dogs & end up with fleas. He was already bad leadership material but his constant bad judgement will see him go.
He was elected to hide the Murrell’s bodies & is wasting money on their shit when he should’ve cut them adrift from the get go.. maybe he should’ve sought legal opinion for himself instead lol
As for complaining to the BBC – I’ll try but I hope I don’t have to faff about & register. It’s like fort Knox at times.
I think this whole debacle has shown (As if we didn’t already know) The Scottish government & the SNP have under their employment absolutely woeful advisors & government lawyers.
The court cases they’ve lost are racking up at an alarming rate, Indy, GRR, Rights of the child, Brexit continuity bill…heads must surely roll unless it’s by design & ticking along nicely for their London pay masters to continually be bogged down in legal shit until it’s left a shell of itself & of no use to anyone..
“The behaviour complained of was found by a jury not to constitute criminal conduct and Alex Salmond is innocent of criminality, but that doesn’t mean the behaviour complained of didn’t happen and I think it’s important that we don’t lose sight of that.”
Sturgeon.
Breat news. It certainly seems that the tide of cover up of criminal conspiracy and corruption is about to emerge.
The Scots legal firmament I believe also now recognises that it must seek to show that it is not part and parcel of a failed rotten and corrupt justice system.
Indeed the extent of coordinated criminal corruption is such that if the Scots legal firmament has any future it must disassociate itself from the utterly devestating reputation that the legal fraternity in Scotland are getting saddled with.
Sturgeon of course herself is a defrocked solicitor who jumped before she was flung out for malpractice and at tge time there was a smell about how she was able to jump.
So yes, the tide may be turning.
But to finish on a slightly different note it might be timely to enquire into Sturgeon’s replacement who is by many accounts an extra marital serial shagger.
With numerous reports energing that he was having an extra marital affair shagging another SNP MP during lockdown, and whilst his boss was day and daily telling the populace to stick by the rules and not travel and mix, it would be further helpful to have disclosed any legal action that may have been impkemented by tge First Minister and the SNP to restrict and cover up publication about potential criminal covid rule breaking by a senior SNP MSP minister and an elected SNP MP.
Glassnost is the disinfectant that we need to clean out tge pigsty.
Many thanks
I had time on my hands today, watched it live on the court of sessions site.
I was gobsmacked to watch it unfold.
My goodness they spent a lot of time on the word HELD.
Whether, or not, Yousaf was bending the rules on Covid and how many people could be in one’s bubble (sounds fun), there’s enough of a smell of something nasty that is going to mean his votes dry up. That’s the real crime in most politics.
As for Sturgeon’s administration, it’s not so much of a smell as to a stench. She’s taken the Indy cause down from the highlands of polls to the lowlands of polls, and all that it has cost her is a campervan, and another 100 years of irrelevance.
@Agent X 20:44pm
So you agree that a jury of a majority of women found Alex Salmond innocent of all charges. He walked free. And now he is favourite to get £3 million compensation. My only regret is I didn’t get to know Salmond better. I could have subbed him for a tenner. If justice is done Sturgeon will write her memoirs from jail. But in true woke style the rest of us should seek to cancel the publisher to get them to rescind the advance on her memoirs.
Geri @ 10:05 pm
“I believe they’re answerable to the Crown.”
Aye, and they may have the wrong (i.e. English/Imperial) crown in mind. It should be the Scottis croun, which is the community of the realm rather than any foreign monarch. The Scottish judiciary should have already dealt with the numerous violations to the mankit ToU and declared the latter void.
Scottis Naitional soveranety is the anely guarantee o Scots law.
Agent X
We can all bear that in mind when she’s up next…
Like the old days, let’s get the band back together. 1st heartening result in years.
Look at the amount of comments ,the SNP have lost us all. Burning Down The House. Love it Stu.
Jesus Christ, Baird, do you not understand history? Plainly not.
The Scottish crown was always held by strongmen, who rode down any form of proto-democracy. And then it was taken away by a Scotsman and down to London in 1603. There’s fuck all sovereignty of the Scottish people in the Scottish crown.
Ass
Stop being an absolute moron in yer trolling of Alf.
The people of the realm, sovereign Scots, could sack their monarch if they didn’t do as they were telt by the ppl.
It’s there in the Scottish constitution.
We don’t adhere to an English one & why our own laws & crown remain.
& Alf is correct.
They better start asserting their authority on the Act of Union & who they serve or they’re all oot of a job.
They’d be a failure to their role in the Act of Union as protectors of Scots law.
That is the whole point of Scotlands highest court.
In regards to playing jiggery-pokery to protect WM appointed skulduggery & stitch ups.
Thankfully, that didn’t happen today. We’ll see further down the line how this plays out.
Get back to yer lunch dates with snitches..lol
“Geoff Anderson says:
6 December, 2023 at 10:06 pm
Sturgeon’s team preferred burner phones…….I wonder why?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-avoided-using-official-phones-as-first-minister-3plsd5d05 ”
Ahaha. I wonder if Nicola’s burner phone had snake on it? Like her slithering personality. As we know failed SNP candidate Katy Louden said she had “Humza Yousaf, on speed dial.” As we know from the Nickleback song Rockstar. Only drug dealers have burner phones with speed dial. That criminals use.
That explains why Nicola Sturgeon hasn’t been using the up to date sim 11K sim cards that Michael Matheson has been using.
The gift that no one wants. That keeps on giving.
I wonder if Sturgeon had woman H on speed dial, on her burner phone? Or chief of police Ian Livingstone and Lady Dorian the jury hater, on speed dial on her burner phone?
We’ll soon find out.
Hats, off to Benjamin Harrop!
Brown trousers and bicycle clips for Sturgeon and her #metae conspirators..
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-key-snp-ministers-31615860
Paywall removed. SNP burner phone scandal. read about it. No government phones to hand over. Nicola’s been using her own burner phone devices to conduct her nefarious and illicit schemings.
Like the missing 600K and fuck knows what else. She’s got nothing to say to dead families wanting transparency from the covid inquiry.
Cat got your tongue Nicola? Can’t speak?
She’s going down. And she’s going down fast.
Geri,
there isn’t a Scottish constitution. That’s a fact.
There’s no court in the world that would believe you if you said there was. There’s also no proof that all of that ancient guff means anything at all. It doesn’t.
One fact is that power went south in 1603, and was codified in 1707, it’s been that way ever since, and will remain so into the future. The Scotland Act 1998 is nothing more than a magician’s trick to divert your eyes with some devolved baubles while retaining actual control. And it was the brainchild of three Scotsmen.
A second fact is that independence under current circumstances would be an utter disaster for Scotland. And that’s why Scotland isn’t going to be allowed to do it.
@ Merganiser 6.42pm Complaint submitted to Brutish Bullshitting Corporation, not that they care for honesty
I think quite a lot happened between 1603 and 1707. Only a unionist clown would conveniently forget the turbulent century between those two dates.
PhilM,
of course a lot happened in between those dates. But none of it matters now. It’s not captured in law, it’s not in any written constitution, and it’s all a very long time ago. So it doesn’t affect the price of fish in today’s market.
Fascinating.
I wonder if David Davis was there on behalf of UK government for any appeal to the supreme court..
Or if the principle relating to the holder of the data now applies to the Scottish equivalent of NSA – and opens the door to Andrew Bridgen and Jeremy Corbyn getting their teeth into honest answers to their parliamentary questions about British involvement in fearmongering over seasonal flu and genocide, respectively.
@A Scot Abroad says:6 December, 2023 at 11:24 pm
something nasty that is going to mean his votes dry up
What, the approx 25,000 votes he got from the 4.25 million Scots voters?
The boy’s a fraud, “elected” by a meaningless handful of votes, through a flawed and fraudulent process.
That’s the source of the current nasty smell, but I guess we need to clean up the older ones first.
@David Hannah says:7 December, 2023 at 1:06 am
Only drug dealers have burner phones with speed dial
Nah.
Extra marital serial shaggers have one.
Politicians who are being tapped by MI6 have one.
Politicians who take their instructions from their MI6 handlers have one.
How many conspiracies have you got?
It might just be me, but IMO anybody who regularly sells motors on gumtree defo needs one.
When the brown stuff hits the fan, everyone runs for cover. It will be interesting to watch this all play out – when the devious ones realise that there just ain’t enough cover for everyone involved. The devious ones will soon become the desperate ones. Panic setting in. The long knives will be out – Watch yer backs! A spectacular implosion may be on the cards, but don’t blink – if and when it comes, it could be sudden. Popcorn ordered.
It’s taken a while, but all the bits are gradually falling into place. A dish best served cold indeed.
@Luigi says:7 December, 2023 at 8:09 am
Popcorn ordered
If you have folks round for Xmas, I’d put the popcorn out. No point waiting till it’s past its sell by.
Here’s a wee quote from Rev Stu’s article:
“the Scottish Government is now likely to as we speak be running around in a squawking panic trying to find loopholes which will allow it to redact some or all of the material before it provides it to Mr Harrop. It remains to be seen to what degree they succeed”
Given where we are, with ScotGov already battening down for a month off on the ski slopes, does that sound like anything is going to happen soon?
And another thing. Won’t Mr Harrop find himself in exactly the same position as everybody else has to date if he ever gets his hands on the unredacted material?
Here’s another wee quote from the previous Wings article:
“The redactions were ostensibly justified on the basis of court orders protecting anonymity”
What if that justification is correct? What if the uncertainty around that justification means there is too much risk in revealing the unredacted material?
Mr Harrop may find he can read it all he likes, but if he divulges it to anybody, it’s off to jail for him. And your popcorn goes stale.
Anyhoo, that’s my interpretation. Happy to stand corrected if anybody else has an evidenced different interpretation.
Now forgive my ignorance here, but is there anything to force the Govt to hand over information. I know they are meant to but in reality will anyone be tasked to get that info out there or more likely be tasked with “stick that on a shelf and keep sending delaying tactic replies when any further demands come in”
Is it enforceable or is it all a little “Small claims Court” when someone wins and then still have to wait a lifetime for the actual cash if at all?
Humza and Co speak out against genocide in Gaza.. but Scottish Enterprise gave at least £10 million of taxpayers money to BAE Systems in Govan to build arms for Israel according to today’s press. Rocket launchers, grenades and machine guns. We don’t know what they make at nearby Thales, or whether they’re getting public funding too.
How two-faced can the SNP be?
Whatever happened to Operation Branchform?
A Scot Abroad said;
“there isn’t a Scottish constitution. That’s a fact.”
That is not a fact, ASA, it is merely an unsupported presumption aggressively and wrongly asserted by you.
Scotland’s constitution is mostly ‘unwritten’ in the same way that England’s constitution is ‘unwritten’, in that its basic tenets and principles haven’t been collated into a single document or set of documents. That does not mean those tenets and principles don’t exist, or have no legal force.
Their legal force was demonstrated in 1689 when the Scotland’s Convention of the Estates fired King James VII for breaching quite a few of those tenets and principles, when he did
“Invade the fundamentall Constitution of this Kingdome And altered it from a legall limited monarchy to ane Arbitrary Despotick power and in a publick proclamation asserted ane absolute power to cass annull and dissable all the lawes particularly arraigning the lawes Establishing the protestant religion and did Exerce that power to the subversion of the protestant Religion and to the violation of the lawes and liberties of the Kingdome.”
The 1689 Claim of Right the Convention passed actually collated and listed a key set of those tenets and principles as a preamble to explain and legally justify why in law it asserted the King had ‘forfeited’ the Crown for breaching them, and which allowed the Convention to legally enforce that forfeiture.
And unlike any aspect of England’s ‘constitution’, that Claim of Right is under permanent guarantee in the Treaty of Union, along with its list of tenets and principles.
QED, ASA, QED!
The key enablers of the Salmond stitch-up, without whom the rather low IQ plotters would have been exposed long ago due to their own ineptitude, malice and stupidity, are the judiciary.
Specifically the Lord Advocate and COPFS and in particular Lady D were and are the legal ‘enforcers’ making sure the plotters are all protected (for life!) behind a veil of secrecy that is to ostensibly protect the ‘victims’.
Everyone knows they are not and never were victims. The true victim here is Alex Salmond. A victim of a malicious plot to stop him re-entering politics and rightfully becoming the leader of the SNP. A plot enabled by the highest legal officers in Scotland. It is utterly shameful for the judiciary.
The main plotters like Woman H are dumbasses. They would have been seen for what they were by the public in no time at all, JUST LIKE THE JURY DID.
But the truth about them is kept secret by a bent judiciary.
This is the fundamental problem here. Things like this FOI case are just one of many fucked consequences of the fundamental injustice done to Alex Salmond.
This will not stop until the entire truth is revealed.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
I see some of the ‘regulars’ on here are still banging on about ‘Sovereignty’. One of them even likes to use his own quaint wee spelling of the word for some obscure reason.
I asked the question last week ‘What does the word mean to the average Scot now and indeed going forward? For some reason there was no response! Anyone like to give it a go today? Try and include ‘The How’ in your answer. Or is this too difficult?
Keep up the good work Stu and thanks to Mr Harrop for his tenacity. Sometimes, but not often, the good guys get a result.
It is clear that Scotland and the whole of the UK is going to have to tighten their financial belts. However there are two classes of people who won’t have to. The mega rich and Politicians, who, with their entourages,have to regularly swan off to foreign climes, first class all the way, undertaking ‘vital work’ for the Country and their constituents.
@Xaracen says:7 December, 2023 at 9:35 am
Absolutely loving your claim that the 1689 Convention of the Estates, which booted James VII out and thus established the precedent for our eternal Scottish Sovereignty, did so mostly because his Catholic faith made him untenable as monarch.
That’s some dodgy foundations to build your modern house of cards on, but even so, I’m prepared to listen further, if you want to explain how the same justifications could be used to boot HY out.
Though he disnae hae tae gang tae France, he can still bide here efterwards.
Take your time.
I knew something was seriously wrong with Lady D when she excluded all the defense evidence of the plotters plotting ‘to get Salmond’.
This plotters plotting evidence went to the very heart of all the bogus and often ridiculous charges leveled against Salmond and especially so because some of the plotters in the civil (judicial review) level then became accusers at the criminal case to bolster the case against him and knowing full well (because the messaged about it) that they would then be protected under ‘victim’ secrecy laws.
The whole thing is disgusting when you see the truth of it. Yet Dorrian decided, ‘naw, let’s keep all that secret’, forever…
To exclude all the evidence was a major attempt to tilt the case against Alex Salmond by Dorrian. But gloriously, it failed. God bless that jury. They have no idea how important they are. Scotland is still in a dire spot but they give us a slight chance.
And then we get to the make-it-up-as-she-goes-along Kafkaesque farce of the Craig Murray imprisonment. A brilliant example of exactly why the idea of abolishing juries is a deeply abhorrent and sinister proposal. Sturgeon and Dorrian were one bad, bad combination.
And this is Scotland second highest judge I understand… truly frightening individual.
The word that comes to mind over and over is that she is prejudiced, which is probably the worst thing you can say about a ‘judge’, the outcome is determined before the case starts.
Salmond was guilty, the plotters are innocent, juries are stupid and must be abolished, anyone who tries to get the truth out must be imprisoned.
This FOI case is just another extension of the absurd secrecy to cover the plotters and what they did.
Mac @ 9:42 am
“the legal ‘enforcers'”
In a colonial society Frantz Fanon refers to the ‘watchdogs of colonialism’; state functionaries used to attack the real independence leaders, to hold the movement back, and to maintain the colonial racket.
Much of this dubious behaviour is unconstitutional, given the 1689 Claim of Right Act, an oft-violated condition of the Treaty of Union. That is what the ‘Scottish’ judiciary should be looking at, whilst it still exists:
https://salvo.scot/scottish-constitution/
Well done, Alfy Boy. You kept your spellchecker on to the last word. Keep it up.
I think that in the law lords decision to sanction the release of information they know that Scotland’s legal system and government is in the reputational gutter.
Biased, corrupt and involved in criminal malfeasance the reputational damage of a banana legal system extends beyond Scotland and into the international arena.
Craig Murray is already in Europe with his case and the international world is watching. Of course the fall from grace was not brought about by Sturgeon alone. Yes she had her clique who are now being exposed to the evidence of criminal conspiracy. But it is wider and deeper than that as dark elements acting on behalf of others out with Scotland will have very much played a part destroying the reputational probity of a once respected legal system.
And the international community are only too well aware of how Britain over the centuries has malignly operated in its colonies.
Not difficult therefore to see at first instance how Sturgeon, some of her close aides, and some of the secret witnesses might soon be facing criminal prosecution. For they will be the first to be sacrificed as the whole rotten truth emerges.
Salmond and his legal team have prepared well. They are also well supported across a political and legal spectrum who have morals and who do not ascribe to banana governance and a banana legal system.
And ditto the Police who too now have a reputation for bias and corrupt practice.
But yes, if Sturgeon ends up in jail all one can say is the failed solicitor who many years ago juped before she was pushed deserves what she gets.
Don’t you worry, Mr Wings. My specialist AI bot – ChatNBG – will keep you all posted.
John Main @ 8.30.
Any FOI response to Mr. Harrop is not just for him, it is published for all to see, which means that they will go to the most extreme lengths to redact as much as possible on spurious grounds.
So whilst the case is a big kick in the teeth for the SNP, it is not a precursor to a sudden great revelation of information which if unredacted could indeed send shockwaves through the Scottish political system.
Possibly the only good thing to come out of it will be the sight of page after page of heavily redacted meaningless incomprehensible twaddle, confirming that the SNP is not a party of transparency, just as it is not a party of independence.
@Chas
Just trolling Chas or do you have something useful to say yourself?
@John Main, at 10:20am;
Your whataboutery is irrelevant, John.
KJ VII’s catholic faith was his motivation, but it was his breaches of Scotland’s constitution that got him fired. Scotland’s constitution clearly wasn’t actually based on presbyterianism since it pre-dated it. It did have some religious elements because it reflected the ethos of the day, an ethos that wouldn’t get the same traction today, making them irrelevant.
So the ‘dodgy foundation’ is yours, not mine.
twathater @ 4.37am.
Thanks for your support. I hope more will join in and contact the BBC about their continual false reporting of What James Hamilton was asked to do and what he did or did not conclude.
Sovereignty
International law defines sovereign states as having a ***permanent population, defined territory, a government not under another, and the capacity to interact with other sovereign states.***
There ya go, Chas.
A government not under another, in our case, permanently rejected government.
Control over our own population, our own resources, our own territory, our own money & our own treaties & agreements with other sovereign countries around the world.
What’s not to like?!
Scotland was an independent sovereign nation before & will return to that status.
There will be some people experiencing shall we say a touch of cloth.
Slowly but surely we creep towards the truth.
It only takes one person to crumble then the wall comes crashing down.
Mac:
“And then we get to the make-it-up-as-she-goes-along Kafkaesque farce of the Craig Murray imprisonment. A brilliant example of exactly why the idea of abolishing juries is a deeply abhorrent and sinister proposal. Sturgeon and Dorrian were one bad, bad combination.
And this is Scotland second highest judge I understand… truly frightening individual.”
Thanks for speaking out Mac. I think so too. Fantastic comment.
The great are only great. When they keep you on their knees.
Lady Dorian. Why did you send an innocent man, Craig Murray to jail in a political prosecution?
Lady Dorian. Why are you a conspirator protector when you granted lifelong anonymity to a woman you reprimanded 4 times for contempt of court? She thinks no one knows about that. I do. And I’m Joe Bloggs.
Lady Dorian. Why do you want to abolish juries, when you release convicted by jury rapists like Stuart Hogg?
I think you’re corrupt. You hate freedom of the press. You hate journalism in this country. You’ve tried your best to threaten and corrupt the legal profession to conceal the truth around the biggest conspiracy this country has ever seen.
And then of course. You wanted to turn the legal system into a deep fried banana Republic, so there would be many more miscarriages of justice under the corrupting eye of a judge.
You’re times up lady Dorian. The legal system are coming to take you away.
There was a good lecture on YouTube regarding Scots constitution & the declaration of Arbroath regards Catholicism & the practices of the time.
I can’t remember the name of the lecture now but one that stood out, & the most important bit, was that no one had a devine right to rule over another & why it was incompatible to English Sovereignty.
That still remains too as Chunky is only here by consent.
Lady Dorian will be next to retire. She’ll be giving up her. Pet project I reckon some time. Very soon.
I wonder. She’s 66. I’m off. I’m off to retire to my humble abode.
In Edinburgh. Trial by postcode. Trial by jury.
The Edinburgh elite. Corrupt as fuck. Hang your head in shame lady doughball. This was under your watch.
The great are only great. When they keep you on their knees. Rise up and stand up.
Said Yvonne Ridley. She’s an incredible woman.
We need to stand up to the Edinburgh elite and show no fear.
We want our country back.
I bagsy Swinney lol
He will be the first to crack.
A yella bellied sniveling drip of water with no backbone & hen pecked by a tyrant into doing as he’s told. Honest John will crumple at the first knock at the door.
@Xaracen says:7 December, 2023 at 11:13 am
Thanks for your reply.
I enjoy debating with you, but it does seem to me you tend to make it up as you go along.
KJ VII’s catholic faith was his motivation, but it was his breaches of Scotland’s constitution that got him fired
Hmmm. Here’s what you posted above:
asserted ane absolute power to cass annull and dissable all the lawes particularly arraigning the lawes Establishing the protestant religion and did Exerce that power to the subversion of the protestant Religion
That defo sounds like a bunch of peeved Proddys to me.
Scotland’s constitution clearly wasn’t actually based on presbyterianism since it pre-dated it. It did have some religious elements because it reflected the ethos of the day, an ethos that wouldn’t get the same traction today, making them irrelevant
But the upholding of Scotland’s constitution clearly was actually primarily based on religious differences. The meaning of the text in italics is crystal clear.
That’s setting a very clear precedent. When you say that precedent is irrelevant today, you’re agreeing with my point.
So the ‘dodgy foundation’ is yours, not mine
Naw, it’s yours. If only they eejits back in 1689 hadn’t been such narrow-minded bigots, the precedent they could have set in 1689 might have lasted through the centuries and remained relevant until now.
Anyhoo, whether or not their precedent has any lasting effect will continue to play on into the future. For now though, it all seems to fall under the catch-all of the Ancient Guff.
I really should read before I post.*
The great only seem great. When they keep you on *Your* knees!
I’m not on my knees. I’m standing up. Benjamin is standing up for Scotland.
We all are. We don’t want to live in a corrupt country. The same as is now. We want to live in independent Scotland that is free. We can’t build an independent Scotland on corruption.
We’ve waited 6 years. And we see that we’re going to have to clean up the country ourselves.
They’ve silenced us. Jailed us. Abused us for far too long. I’m not scared to speak out against them. Because I believe in the truth. And honestly and love and what Is right.
The legal profession can grow a spine now. And stand up for the country.
Time to restore law and order in this country and make our corrupt politicians and institutional leaders pay.
Let’s take our country back boys. Wings over Scotland.
Unbowed. Unbroken. Undefeated.
Tommo says:
6 December, 2023 at 5:28 pm
“in which case I will struggle not to raise a wry smile.”
Steady now Tommo and all with a similar intent.
The mindset which is operating here has already set the precedent that emotional displays of joy will not tolerated.
This from Prof James Mitchell.
“Neither Brexit nor Scottish independence offer the kind of clean break many might anticipate or hope for.
Neither offer the complete freedom to act.
In place of notions of illimitability, we need to acknowledge the limits of autonomy.
In place of perpetuity, we need to appreciate the conditional and contextual nature of autonomy. In place of indivisibility, we need to acknowledge that much political power is shared to create a healthier, pluralist system of government.
Ultimately, sovereignty is often simply a claim of power. It is invoked by those seeking power or those seeking to retain it. It is an attempt to provide raw power with legitimacy through mystique. It ignores the complexities of relationships.”
Main
Maybe familiarise yerself with the long list of grievances.
Still relevant today.
Regards education & laws.
& Obvs, The claim of right.
That’s not ancient guff.
Scotland never agreed to the one nation shite, peddled by Tories.
Scotland never gave up her Sovereignty & her territory.
We remain separate & distinct & with clear boundaries.
@sam says:7 December, 2023 at 12:28 pm
It is an attempt to provide raw power with legitimacy through mystique. It ignores the complexities of relationships.
If Sam is attempting to describe the farcical situation currently prevailing in Scotland, with HY striding the world stage scattering Scottish taxpayers largesse, all as a result of a flawed and fraudulent process undertaken by approximately 25,000 (presumed but not proven) Scots …
Then Sam has driven the nail home with one hammer blow.
So the Scottish government spend a lot of money defending the indefensible and lose, and now have to reveal their secrets and Douglas Ross does not mention it.
That seems very strange dies it not
Aye
Scotland would be a good neighbour. We’d not be isolationist. We’d be the exact opposite. Freedom to expand beyond a domestic setting only serving one country: England.
Because that’s what we have at the moment. Another country imposing it’s will on another on everything from population control to trade & world affairs.
@Geri says:7 December, 2023 at 12:48 pm
That’s not ancient guff
Agreed.
That’s why I say ditch the Ancient Guff, focus on the here and now (and the near future), push policies that appeal to all Scots, “Sovereign” and “New”.
Show us the …
Naw, goanny naw dae that in this post.
Main
How many voted for Sunak?
How many voted for Truss?
Don’t look now but you are actually complaining about an imposed Westminster system.
Dumbza used the system provided by yer Masters. Shit innit?
I maybe wrong but they’re probably not mentioning it because it’s part of a live case?
Douglas Ross is has wasted 4 sessions talking about Michael Matheson. Who is still sitting next to Humza today. He’s given up now.
There was some shifty eyed politican behind Humza today. With lipstick on and red turtle neck. I’ve never seen a politican look more uncomfortable in my life when the Labour MSP asked about freedom of information request reform relating to care homes.
Here eyes were all over the place. She was touching her hair. Squirming in her chair. Her face. She couldn’t sit still. Shifty eyed.
Squeeqy bum time indeed for the SNP front bench.
They are all going down.
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-december-7-2023
Katy Clark Labour asks the question about freedom of information requests at 12:31pm.
Look at the woman behind Humza. She’s scowling. Her emotions are jumping all over the place. She’s doing the little power triangle with her hands. Her eyebrows going up and down. She’s squirming in her seat. Rolling her eyes. She laughs at the Tories for releasing less FOI like it’s forced.
If I was a television detective. Looking at her face. You can tell that the SNP inner sanctum is rattled by yesterday’s court case.
I hope they squirm.
FOI around care homes was the question.
We know this SNP is hiding. They won’t comply with the covid inquiry.
Sturgeon’s been using burner phones she has no government phones to hand over.
No doubt she’ll have binned her old phone. And God a new number.
She’s that fucking crooked Nicola isn’t she?
What’s happening branchform? Are you going down with the outgoing administration or ushering in a better one?
Unfortunately for the SNP. We’re listening to every single word. We won’t miss a thing.
John Main said;
“The meaning of the text in italics is crystal clear. That’s setting a very clear precedent. When you say that precedent is irrelevant today, you’re agreeing with my point.”
Your misdirection is obvious, John. You framed your response solely around the Claim of Right’s religious content, and completely ignored its secular and constitutional content, as if it were irrelevant or even non-existent.
Your so-called precedent is meaningless. The religious content of the CoR doesn’t have the traction today that it did then, as I already pointed out, but the secular content certainly does. Scotland and England are far more secular in outlook now than they were 300+ years ago, but secular matters were nevertheless still of great importance then, too.
So you don’t get to pretend the religious content was the only aspect of significance in the CoR, nor that the irrelevance of the religious content today must therefore include any secular content.
It’s the secular parts of Scotland’s constitution that are relevant today, because those are constantly being abused by Westminster in breach of its Treaty obligation to uphold them.
@Geri says:7 December, 2023 at 1:06 pm
Main
How many voted for Sunak?
Dunno, but it wasn’t a fraudulent, flawed election, was it?
How many voted for Truss?
Dunno, but it wasn’t a fraudulent, flawed election, was it?
Don’t look now but you are actually complaining about an imposed Westminster system.
Bullshit – the SNP is free to use whatever system it likes to appoint its leader – including a free one-off vote open to every Scots voter
Dumbza used the system provided by yer Masters.
Bullshit
Shit innit?
What’s the point of agreeing with you – you argue even when peeps agree – bet you argue with yer ain fecking mirror – bet your mirror drinks too much
@Xaracen says:7 December, 2023 at 1:50 pm
Here you go – a wee re-write for you:
Your misdirection is obvious, Xaracen. You framed your response solely around the Claim of Right’s secular and constitutional content, and completely ignored its religious content, as if it were irrelevant or even non-existent.
But you don’t get to pretend the secular content was the only aspect of significance in the CoR, or even the primary one, nor that the possible lasting relevance of the secular content today must therefore exclude the “irrelevant” religious content.
It is all parts of Scotland’s “constitution” that are irrelevant today, because the pick-and-mix approach to it, claiming some parts as “enlightened” cos it suits, binning other parts as “antiquated bigoted gobbledegook” cos it suits, has inevitably resulted in it becoming not a constitution at all.
Precedent, Xaracen, 300+ years of it. And then the ultimate irony – the people who invoked the Claim of Right to defend their religion would have always expected their religious beliefs to trump secular ones – that’s a no-brainer if ever there was one. So again, by getting it erse-over-tit, you lose any legitimacy to ride their coat-tails.
Still, it’s a darned sight easier to eternally nitpick over this than it will ever be to come up with ideas, policies and plans that might just galvanise Indy support among Scots voters.
Main
**Dunno, but it wasn’t a fraudulent, flawed election, was it?
How many voted for Truss?
Dunno, but it wasn’t a fraudulent, flawed election, was it?**
They weren’t democratic.
Sunak had no leadership contest at all. He was a shoo in by a handful of Tories.
Truss was elected by Tory membership.
***Bullshit – the SNP is free to use whatever system it likes to appoint its leader – including a free one-off vote open to every Scots voter
Dumbza used the system provided by yer Masters.
Bullshit***
As every, you spectacularly miss the point..
Dumbza is free to put it to a vote. He chose to use the WM/ Tory version instead which is to his discretion.
He asked a few thousand members.
Which is more than Sunak did to become PM of the UK.
Funny that, I don’t see you endlessly greetin’ intae yer hankie about that fraudulent manoeuvre eh?
Sunak could’ve called an election. He didn’t.
Dumbza could’ve called an election. He didn’t.
Therefore, the WM system was used.
Go sit down.
Geri
Your response to my question-
‘Sovereignty
International law defines sovereign states as having a ***permanent population, defined territory, a government not under another, and the capacity to interact with other sovereign states.***
There ya go, Chas.
A government not under another, in our case, permanently rejected government.
Control over our own population, our own resources, our own territory, our own money & our own treaties & agreements with other sovereign countries around the world.
What’s not to like?!
Scotland was an independent sovereign nation before & will return to that status.’
My response to you-
As far as I am aware Scotland has a permanent population and a defined territory. We had the opportunity to vote for ‘A government not under another’ but chose not to. What was our bold brave 1st Minister doing in Qatar and Robertson doing in China, with their entourages, if not interacting with other countries in the world, at enormous expense to the taxpayer?
I don’t see anybody interfering in our control over our population or territory. We don’t even have our own money with no plans in place to inform us how we will proceed. What resources are you talking about? Is it the ones under the control of multi national Companies with a base in Scotland? Are we going to nationalise them? If so, where does the money come from?
No surprise that you missed out the crucial part of my question Geri which is HOW???
The world ‘Sovereignty’ actually means nothing to the majority of Scots. The ballot box is what counts, always has, always will be.
It is all too easy for the gullible and ill informed to latch on to a few key words like Sovereignty and Colonialism but they are only relevent to, I will be generous here, maybe 3% of Scots. It does however help to cement the feeling of ‘it’s jist no fair’. Do you what the word HOW actually means?
A poor response Geri but at least you tried.
Sam
Why is asking awkward questions deemed as trolling? Are you another advocate of ‘It will all be fine’?
1.Scotlands population is controlled by another country. So is it’s territory & resources in direct conflict to the treaty of Union. It was never a territorial agreement.
2. We didn’t vote for the Union. RUK voted for it. Last time I checked they weren’t Scots.
3. Talking pish about climate. Was Dumbza striking trade deals?
4. See 1.
5. We do have our own money. It’s called the £1. We’re already using it. Our banks already print it. It’s already legal tender. We’re already in a currency union. A central bank is easy to set up.
6. All of Scotlands resources. Oil. Gas. Electricity. Exports. Aggregates. Food & drink. Sciences. All goes direct to a brass plate that will be redirected to SCOTLAND instead of London.
7. How? The ballot box is indeed the authority. One they continually ignore but not for long. The people of Scotland being under the rule of a rejected London rule & draconian policies affect 100% of people, stupid.
Poverty, inequality & broken communities cannot be fixed by pocket money. Choosing between heating & eating while they look outside to a landscape wrecked by windmills churning out leckie for ANOTHER COUNTRY & rigs churning out (worthless) Oil for the revenues to be fiddled by ANOTHER COUNTRY. The revenues go to the brass plate, Stupid.
How many people do you think gives a fckty fck about Trident, persistent warmongering around the globe & perpetual Tory corruption?
Only brain dead yoons. You can count yerself in that %.
London has the next wave of wealth lined up to be funneled South. Renewables.
Not on yer nelly…
So the question is being asked what is happening with Operation Branchform?
What indeed. The fact that it has gone nowhere, or appears to have gone nowhere, tells you all you need to know about rotten Police Scotland.
Same question into the criminal leak to the Daily Record that Police Scotland were investigating. Police Scotland know who leaked the information about Alex Salmond, but three years on Police Scotland have still not concluded their investigation nor charged anyone.
And of course its the very same Police Scotland who spent over ten million deploying the ” Alec Salmond ” team to interview over 400 people about hiim to try and find evidence of agaist him.
And the same Police Scotland who deployed the still extant ” “Alec Salmond team ” to raid Mark Hirst’s house. remove all his phones and computers and then charge him with an offence that was on appearance in court thrown out on the grounds of no case to answer.
And its the same Police Scotland who months after the Metropolitan Police had concluded no charges to answer against Margaret Ferrier, Police Scotland then stepped in with its investigation and charged Margaret Ferrier.
And is it the same Police Scotland who pursued ordinary people in their homes for alleged covid lockdown mixing whilst it now seems according to that our now First Minister was juking about breaking lock down mixing with extra marital affairs. Funny, but given the level of reports, and the lock down on press being able to name names, how Police Scotland don’t appear to have investigated this alleged crime. Or have they and they’ve just dinged it.
Putting these things together it is not difficult to understand why so many ordinary citizens have lost confidence in the integrity of Police Scotland. Like the Royal Ulster Constabulary or the apartheid Police Service of South Africa they seem to have form.
But yes, what has happened to Branchform or the investigation into the criinal leak to the Daily Record.
@Chas
I wanted to know what you think. Now I know. You don’t think much.
@Geri says:7 December, 2023 at 3:12 pm
Dumbza is free to put it to a vote. He chose to use the WM/ Tory version instead which is to his discretion.
He asked a few thousand members
Oh FFS, HY asked nobody. There was a leadership election with three candidates, organised by the SNP and open to members of the SNP only. People who very well may not even be Scots.
But that’s not the fecking point. The election was fraudulently run, some SNP office holders resigned, the polis were involved at one point, and one candidate (Regan) threatened a legal challenge but then backed off.
You’re just another eejit who’s mindless knee-jerk defense of the indefensible erodes support for Indy.
If I ever make the mistake of debating with you again, put yer mirror image on next time around. Even if everything it writes is back-to-front, it can’t make any less sense.
Main,
It’s you that’s the eejit.
Sunak had NO ONE vote for him.
Truss had the Tory membership.
Dumbza had the SNP membership.
What’s yer point, caller?
The only one not legit, by WM parliamentary standards, is Sunak. NO ONE VOTED FOR HIM. Not even the Tory membership.
I’m not defending anything. I’m pointing out yer glaring hypocrisy about your continued use of fraudulent leaders.
Dumbza, bad. Despite 70,000 votes by membership.
Sunak, great. Despite O votes by membership.
No fecker voted for Sunak & he’s PM.
So quit bleating bullshit.
Dumbza used the system. Get over it already .
Btw, when was the polis involved in the SNP leadership bid? I must’ve missed that.
A system, I may add, you yoons voted to keep.
Dumbza used the WM system.
Not even Dowdy streets cat voted for Sunak.
A few mates in stuffy back rooms landed him the job.
He never asked the public what they thought.
That’s what you’d call fraudulent.
An independent Scotland would have a written constitution that would banished that nonsense from parliament.
Dumbza used the WM system you voted to keep. Remember that next time you wanna go off..
John Main said;
“It is all parts of Scotland’s “constitution” that are irrelevant today, because the pick-and-mix approach to it, claiming some parts as “enlightened” cos it suits, binning other parts as “antiquated bigoted gobbledegook” cos it suits, has inevitably resulted in it becoming not a constitution at all.”
Oh, yeah? And how exactly did that happen, John? Who took that pick-and-mix approach to it? And while we’re at it, if it was inevitable, why didn’t the same attrition happen to England’s un-guaranteed constitution?
“Precedent, Xaracen, 300+ years of it.”
What precedent, exactly? Show us some, John. Go on, show us some of the pick-and-mix precedents that whittled Scotland’s guaranteed constitution all the way down to no constitution at all, despite its guarantee of permanence. And if it resulted in no constitution at all, does that mean there were no ‘enlightened’ parts at all? It was all ‘antiquated bigoted gobbledegook’?
The thing that ‘inevitably resulted in it becoming not a constitution at all’, if that’s more than just a rhetorical position, was England’s unlawful subjugation of it, not its lack of legitimacy, relevance or authority in the Union.
If Westminster won’t respect Scotland’s guaranteed constitution, why should we respect its English constitution which has no legal or constitutional relevance in Scotland whatsoever?
And the same goes for Westminster’s so-called sovereignty; why should we respect its English sovereignty which has no legal or constitutional relevance in Scotland whatsoever?
Give us some answers, John. You’re a teacher allegedly, teach!
@Xaracen says:7 December, 2023 at 5:55 pm
guarantee of permanence
If you have a guarantee, then take it up with the guarantor. Who is that anyway?
England’s unlawful subjugation
If it’s unlawful, take it up in law. Edinburgh, London, Brussels, New York. They all have courts. Surely one of these can make a ruling? Say they find in our favour. Who’s going to enforce the verdict?
why should we respect its English sovereignty
Don’t then. Identify every unlawful statute and stricture that’s currently weighing you down and start flouting every damn one of them. What’s the problem with you doing that? It’s all unlawful, isn’t it?
Give us some answers
Easy peasy. For the love of Gowd stop tilting at windmills and come up with some practical, feasible, achievable, popular, prosperity-growing policies for Indy. Plebiscitary elections, for example.
Look Xaracen, you claim just about every damn thing since 1707 has been unlawful. I point out that therefore so much of what governs our lives becomes null and void, that the only practical solution is to just take things as they are and build from there.
300+ years of precedent underpins every aspect of our lives where rules, regulations and laws apply. That’s just about every waking moment, and many sleeping ones too, for every one of us.
1. I believe that’s Chucky.
The crown agreed the non negotiable terms of the Union & Scotlands claim of right which remain active. Chucky is here by consent – also active. That consent can be removed. Who would enforce it? Scots & Int law.
Scots by holding a legitimate election.
Scots by declaring the result.
International law to recognise a democratic, legitimate vote.
States recognise other states. Not *permission* slips from WM.
They have zero control here.
It was never a territorial union.
2. Where have you been for 9 years? Under a rock? Scotland had six mandates for independence.
2015 GE
2016 Holyrood
2016 Brexit trigger
2017 GE
2019 GE
2021 Holyrood
& A britnat turncoat who didn’t use a single one.
3. No need to show anyone the money. A country rich in natural resources isn’t SKINT & won’t lack investment as we’ve our resources to underwrite it.
Don’t cry. Brexit didn’t have one either. No one lost the plot & called it off.
Plenty of countries are independent & manage just fine.
You could always move to England. It’s only a few miles away. I’m sure they’ll put up the bunting.
Lord Carloway looks bit feirt he might be found by the side of the still non-dualled A9 with the suicide weapon 10 yards away. Just a thought.