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History written by losers

Posted on March 31, 2015 by

Because we took a short break over the weekend, we sadly missed Labour’s solemn commemorations of the 1979 confidence vote, and as a result we don’t know whether anyone actually did don a black armband or lay a wreath to remember the miners that Labour didn’t support when they went on strike a few years later.

But an alert reader did find this for us.


It’s an extract from BBC reporter John Sergeant’s book “Maggie: Margaret Thatcher – Her Fatal Legacy” and you can read more of it below.


There’s also a fascinating 2009 account of events by the then-Labour minister Roy Hattersley for the Guardian, in which the SNP get barely a passing mention and he lays most of the blame for the collapse of the government on two Northern Irish MPs.


More recently in the same paper (just a couple of weeks ago, in fact), an obituary of a Northern Irish doctor, Bertie Irwin, arrived at much the same conclusion:


And of course we already know the views of the ousted Labour PM Jim Callaghan, who chiefly blamed rebel MPs on his own benches for bringing the situation about.


It’s bizarre enough that Labour are trying to fight an election campaign based on something that happened 36 years ago. But it’s especially bold of them to do so by going against almost every other historical account, including those of the party’s own witnesses who were actually there in the middle of it.

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    111 to “History written by losers”

    1. It is very hard to have any respect at all for the North Britain Labour Branch Office when they continue to attempt to re-write history, distort reality and make up rules as they go along.

      A few moments of web research – and of course a visit here – soon rubbishes their attempts, which brings us to the only conclusion.

      The only hope they have – and they know it – is to confuse and lie to the ordinary punter who does not have access to this.

      In other words, they have only contempt for their own core voters.

    2. Valerie says:

      Ugh, I knew Blair loved Maggie, but obviously underestimated the depth.

      Yeah, Tony, and she was admirable in her friendship with Savile, and we have still to hear of her other actions in that arena.

      What sickens me is, the depravity of that era, must have been an open secret, and yet Blair puts her on a pedestal.

    3. r esquierdo says:

      A drowning man will clutch at a straw

    4. X_Sticks says:

      Ah well, if history doesn’t suit your political lie just make up your own version.

      The ‘Scottish’ labour party are experts at it. McTernan and MacDougall could twist a corkscrew.

    5. the Penman says:

      It’s fodder for the low-information voter group they target now. Did for September, will continue to do it. Mainly because now they’re the only group that will buy what they’re selling.

    6. JayR says:

      FACT: The SNP did NOT bring Thatcher to power – the UK electorate DID THAT by voting for her in a general election (disgusting though I find that fact).

      FACT: The 1979 no confidence vote only hastened Labour’s inevitable defeat, by making the election take place in May instead of by October 1979 at the very latest.

      Does anyone in their right mind think Labour would have won if the election had been a few months later? Labour were a disaster then, ridden with infighting and unelectable. Just as in 2010, Labour made it easy for the Tories to win.

    7. no no no...yes says:

      No, no, you’ve got it wrong.Jim,Kez and all the other fairystory tellers wouldn’t try to deceive us, surely. Scotland is the Sleeping Beauty that has awakened and is learning the truth about the past.
      Labour bad!

      The pic of Magrit on the National is a cracker.

    8. almannysbunnet says:

      I know it’s a serious subject but Ref Gerry Fitt and Frank Maguire “indeed both of them had flown from Belfast to London expressly not to vote”. Couldn’t they have just stayed at home and not voted from there? Do you have to be physically present not to vote? Sounds very Alice in Wonderland. Spike Milligan would have loved this 🙂

    9. Sandra says:

      It’s odd they don’t mention letting the Tories in at the last election. Brown could have struck a deal with the Libdems but didn’t.

    10. msean says:

      Sounds like Winston Smith has returned to work after the indyref.Of course,he didn’t have to cope with the internet as well… 🙂

    11. Macart says:

      Of course the answer is simple.

      They needed to rewrite history in order to avoid guilt and consequences being laid at the proper feet. They betrayed their own electorate using the 40% rule and thus scuppering the first devolution vote. Who knew that the SNP would support a vote of no confidence in the government who stabbed their own electorate and one time commons support in the back and secondly they repeated the whole backstabbing procedure with their own PM.

      The SNP were still a viable threat to their hegemony in Scotland so who better to act as scapegoat for their crimes? The Labour govt. of 79 were more concerned with being at each others throats than they were at balancing the democratic deficit of the UK or fighting the oncoming threat of the Conservatives.

      To be clear, their government, their infighting and their betrayal ushered in decades of misery for the electorate. They’ve spent an awful lot of time, effort and resource trying to bury that guilt. The problem with shallow graves though is that once discovered, it doesn’t take a lot of digging to reveal the truth.

      Even before Blair, they were more concerned with power and party, than they were with upholding ideology or duty of care to the electorate. In many ways Blair merely made it more obvious where Labour were headed and where they went wrong.

    12. BrianW says:

      Yeah, but for Labour, why spoil a good lie/sound bite when it’s working so well.

      The majority of folk hearing these claims will never in their wildest dreams think of looking up the history/truth of the matter.

      That suits/fits in well with Labours over all narrative.

      I’m convinced the candidates themselves don’t question what they say, or are told to say. They just blindly say it and believe it. Like most cult members do.

      But, they forget there are folk out there that will research, read & converse. They find out the context in which events happen, who, where, why, what etc.

      Knowledge for the masses is a terrible thing for Labour. They ride the crest of the uninformed constituent wave that has served them well for donkeys years.

      The claim against the SNP in ’79 holds as much water as Labour telling us they’ll be banning poverty.. hahahaha.. (and they’ve been saying that from pre ’79)

    13. Robert Kerr says:

      @no no no…yes 10.46

      Orgasmic even.

      And Gordo the magnificent is close behind her!

      Running low on popcorn. Need to go shopping.

    14. Clootie says:

      Once again it is the lack of journalistic reporting quality that enables the Labour Scottish branch to continue to promote the lie regarding the 1979 vote.

    15. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

      It is generally believed and frequently peddled by the Labour Party in Wales that the three Plaid MPs voted against the Government in 1979. I have seen a letter in the Western Mail from a Welsh Labour MP and a statement made recently by a Welsh Labour Assembly Member that that was the case. All three Plaid MPs voted with the Government, extracting some major concessions (compensation for quarrymen) in the process. I have no doubt that this lie will continue to rear its ugly head.

    16. Paul says:

      More facts which they will most certainly dislike. Many thanks for these ones too. Any idea how many times the 36 years of discontent article was shared over the weekend?

    17. Caledonius says:

      Isn’t it amazing what you can learn by just reading a few books? Pity it seems to be a dead art with labour drones who seem to prefer murphy and co’s very own ‘SNP BAD LABOUR GOOD: an oral history of stuff that never actually happened.’

    18. Tommy says:

      I made a comment on a post from my old politics teacher on Facebook regarding an advert/propaganda he was sharing from the Scottish Labour page which blamed the SNP solely for Thatcher. This was seized upon by one of labours old guard – I wish I’d known this much at the time and didnt do my research as within one post he was calling the SNP (and by extent me as I said I was a member) anti-english and racist… you really can’t argue with these people… I tried, politely… and realised I’d won the argument the minute he used the words fascism and Nazis in the same breath as SNP. Fingers crossed we get a more useful, positive political discourse out of this election! Just getting parties to actually offer policies rather than dredge up selective facts about history would be massive progress!

    19. Stoker says:

      SO, Slabberites, what say you to the extract from Sergeant’s book?

      Hurry now, we’re waiting.

      Just in case any of you “missed it” i’ll be ever so helpful and repeat those very telling words:

      “helped enormously by sections of the Labour Party”

      YES, that’s correct, THATCHER helped into power by LIEBORE.

      Protect Scotland’s interests – vote SNP – RED TORIES OUT.

    20. Marie clark says:

      it gets wearing all this crap. This seems to be all that Labour have in their wee box o’ tricks.Bye now even the dogs in the street know the truth of this, and still they persist. They really do have a low pinion of their voters don’t they.

      They must be really, really desperate now as they’ve wheeled the Great Gordo oot again. Lookin fur a miracle now.

    21. heedtracker says:

      SLabour lie. Its a whopper all right but IF creepy Murphy and co are so red tory outraged by Thatcher world teamGB, why is red tory Blairite teamGB even more unequal, debt ridden, unemployed, locked in endless wars, savaging any changes like a devo max PR Holyrood? this and other queries that never occur to hideous teamGB media.

    22. David McCann says:

      According to the late Donald Stewart’s memoirs ’A Scot at Westminster’, he met with Callaghan the night before the censure debate, to make clear the intention of the SNP to vote against the government, unless the Scotland Bill was submitted on a confidence basis.

      Callaghan made no effort at calling off the SNP vote, as he knew it would not be possible to dragoon the rabid anti-devolutionists in the Labour party into supporting their own government’s legislation.

      The die was cast.

      So it was no wonder that Callaghan, in his memoirs opined.
      “the difficulty within the (Labour) Party, was much greater than any from the Scottish National Party, and the Whip’s judgement was that the government could not rely on the votes of Labour members from the north if we moved to reject the Repeal Order……… we could lose the vote.”

      And of course they did. The rest is history.

    23. James Kay says:

      almannysbunnet, 10:48 am:

      Was this the occasion when an Irish MP went to Westminster ” … to abstain in person.”!?

    24. tombee says:

      Absolutely Clootie,
      When the MSM decline, or fail, to fulfill their obligations to report and inform without fear or favour, they virtually condone the lying aspect of what ever party is guilty. In this case the Labour party.
      Murphy and Co will never ever refrain from distorting the truth. The only defence against it is for good men not to stand by while evil prevails. In that regard, the BBC and other elements of the MSM fail in their duty to inform and educate.

    25. galamcennalath says:

      Of course Labour was intrumental in ushering in Thatcher. Incompetence, economic mismanagement, rebels in their ranks etc etc.. OK, they sold out Scotland (again) but there is no getting away from the reality that English voters did not want another Lab government, and DID want Thatcher. Whatever transpired, there was to be an election within months, and Thatcher was going to win!

      the Penman says:
      “It’s fodder for the low-information voter group they target now. ”

      That is all they have left. They have stooped so low, I sincerely hope they never manage to get up again,

      Valerie says:
      “Maggie … the depravity of that era”

      More and more is being exposed. It has even been suggested the ‘polical dynamite’ Willie Macrae had in his possession which ‘could bring down Thatcher’ was info on child abuse rings. A complete lack of morality, by whatever measure, was the hallmark of the Thatcher government. Even foreign policy like backing corrupt regimes like South Africa and Chile.

    26. Craig P says:

      Yep. 11 SNP MPs brought down the UK government, Scotland has been sucking on England’s teat since 1979, and Jim Murphy is a socialist.

      Anyone for any more Labour Facts*?

      *(may not contain actual facts)

    27. Edward says:

      I do remember the period and also remember it was indeed Callaghan’s own back bench left wing MP’s that voted against him

      Not sure if Eric Heffer was one of the 34 , but he certainly figured prominently at that time

      You have to remember the Labour party were fractured badly, leading to Callaghan’s downfall. The election of Michael Foot as Labour leader. The ‘gang of four’ Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams, Bill Rodgers and David Owen, who quit the Labour party and formed the SDP in 1981.

      Another name from the period was Dick Taverne

      While your googling, look up ‘Miltant Tendancy’

      The above should give you a flavour how bad Labour was in the 70’s

      Layer in a bit of curruption (T Dan Smith, John Poulson)

      Definately not the SNP that brought down the Callaghan government, it was down to his own party and subsequently the voters who were fed up

    28. Nuada says:

      It’s neither bizarre nor bold – they’re the Labour Party: they tell lies.

    29. Mae Carson says:


      You have to be physically in the chamber to ‘abstain’ from a vote, if you are not there you are recorded as ‘absent’.

      Abstaining is a matter of principle demonstrating your lack of support for & against the motion; being absent could have any number of interpretations. The difference lies in how you want your vote, or lack thereof, to be interpretated & recorded.

    30. Jim Thomson says:

      An interesting first part of “Greedy Liers” on RT this morning.

      One of the things that they featured, in fact the main thrust, was that assertion of a lie is far more effective than a truth backed by facts and figures.

      They gave examples of 30 second sound bite assertions that then had to be countered by many minutes of densely fact based rebuttal. The asserters rely upon the fact that people get turned off by truth and figures and their attention span is very short when it comes to details.

    31. Tackety Beets says:

      As I have posted before all these lies are permitted by the useless , I repeat useless and p@@s poor journalists and interviewers who fail to ESTABLISH the truth .

      Even on Radio 4 this morning circa 8.35 am Leanne Wood interview. I was in car and only caught the middle to end bit.I’m sure the the interviewer , having established a relationship with SNP and PC said .
      ” So Leanne PC are against Trident , I don’t think you will get much support from SNP on that ” or words to that effect .
      The point is the Interviewer on radio 4 mis-represented the position of the SNP .
      The Political commentators in the UK really need to get their facts right.
      Or are they pretending to be so STUPID ?
      No wonder the Public are confused .
      Bias can adjust reports but to permit any Political person to utter such sh@@ we have all seen in the last umpteen years is now beyond belief .

      Next time anyone mentions the 1979 situation , simply retort Labour lost a vote of confidence by 1 vote , 30 odd were Labour Mps voted against Labour ( we all know for very good reason ) , so if Denis Skinner had voted in favour …..
      Aggghhhh FFS ,

      all get ma jeckit !

    32. Macca73 says:

      Without the internet to promote the trust and truth in the matter this would have been allowed to go on and on.

      Indeed in the mainstream media they still think that this is the case end are quite prepared to let labour keep churning up this line.

      It comes as no small surprise to me that people who have access to the internet or those who indeed don’t like my father who’s a pensioner in Scotland can be shown the facts for what they really are thus leaving all the clatter that comes through the doorstep as just junk!

      Keep up the brilliant work Stu!

    33. ronnie anderson says:

      Kezia,s goat ah good excuse, she wizna born.

      Dimjim wont remember he wiz at school in Sth Africa, with or without ah crisp poke of glue.

      An there,s nae use askin Margaret Curran she lose’s her memory awe the time,me n mags wuld get on well thegither LoL.

    34. Stoker says:

      Feel free to sing along folks, a one, a one, two, three:

      Oh dear what can the matter be,
      Slabbers lies lay in the lavatory.

      Rev, they must be loving you, can you feel the love?

      That warm sensation you’re feeling on the back of your head,
      that’s the eyes of the Slabberite gophers burning into your napper,
      with contorted faces full of hatred for you.

      Great article, you’re a star.

      Read it and weep gophers!

    35. HandandShrimp says:

      George Cunningham of the 40% amendment fame also left to join the SDP. Labour were riven from top to bottom and Jim Callaghan had a hell of a job on his hands holding it all together.

      The Labour 1979 thing dropped into my Facebook timeline unbidden as it did to many others. It got a severe and lengthy kicking in the comments section as a result. I doubt anyone reading the top comments would be left in any doubt as to what actually happened in 1979 and how desperate SLab are.

    36. Clarinda says:

      I really wonder if they are smart enough to rewrite history – bearing in mind you have to have a very firm grasp on it in the first place to carry out this type of subterfuge. Are they just simply a bit thick?

      Sadly, for them, and gloriously for us, the internet and our combined intellect and energy marshalled by the sterling work of brilliant and determined Independence bloggers and seekers of the truth have rumbled this bunch of incompetents.

      The dreadfully ill-informed Tory on Scotland Tonight in the equally spooked company of Magrit and some Lib Dem bloke were an embarrassment of political numpties. It’s something when even I thought I could make a better case for the Tories than the Tory being questioned!

    37. Richardinho says:

      Did Labour’s ‘Black arm band’ ceremony ever actually take place? Must admit I was looking forwards to having a laugh about it. My feeling is: ‘Even they aren’t that stupid’

      But you never know!

    38. icyspark says:

      @JayR 10:46

      Totally agree. 100% This.

    39. fred blogger says:

      imv this is @ the very core of the issue.
      i actually admired mp’s that rebelled against it’s own leadership, as many labour mp’s did @ the time.
      the difference is that the tories towed the party line and put up
      a united front, for the sake of the cause, against their own personal beliefs.

      it was @ this moment uk politics changed for ever, and the labour party rebels were gradually gotten rid of.
      shame on the labour leadership for selling out the working classes.

    40. Grizzle McPuss says:

      It is nothing but insulting to the intellect of the many that were around and old enough to appreciate the events back in 1979.

      As an older teenager, but still at school, I remember the Devolution debate and subsequent vote very well. This was mainly as a result of all secondary schools in my area actively encouraging pupils to participate in debates and vote in mock elections on an issue deemed important to the Scottish nation and our future.

      Much of our education was tailored to the various impacts that the success of Devolution could have upon the country.

      (The overwhelming (school) vote was in favour)

      What followed afterwards and led to the fall of the Labour government is also imprinted on our minds. We as naïve young people couldn’t understand why it had all gone so wrong in the real vote, especially as the majority had voted ‘Yes’.

      The subsequent post-election debates were even more hotly discussed (probably as a result of our militant teachers being a bit more than miffed)

      What had George Cunningham sought to achieve against the people of Scotland?

      (I might add; history lessons were never the same again when teachers recalled phrases such as…

      “Bring out your dead”

      “Were they employing the same vote accounting tactics in mediaeval times, Sir?”)

      As a member of a politically aware & active family, I can re-call listening to the heated discussions in and around home and from the media. How clearly I remember the emergence of the phrase ‘No Confidence’.

      We were there; we all can remember the resulting news reports of ‘rebels from the backbenches’…and these were predominantly Labour MP’s causing the issues.

      But I guess it’s par for the course that the ‘entitled ones’ (the Labour Party in Scotland) feel that they can now tell us how we as individuals should remember matters. For me, that is sanctimonious behaviour that goes just a bit too far.

      It almost borders upon clichéd thought control perception; telling people how they should remember facts within their lives, but as ‘they’ dictate.

      One day school children will be taught not only about outdated phrases such as ‘heartlands’ in the political context, they will also learn about the emergence of a plague that spread across Scotland called ‘arrogance’.

      They will also learn that the rats that spread that disease were finally eradicated on May 7th, 2015.

    41. Jim Davidson says:

      Margaret Thatcher stated in a speech she gave that her greatest achievement was not the defeat of the unions,or the destruction of our manufacturing industries, or indeed her privatisation wheeze, no it was none of these, it was Tony Blair. Now there is an endorsement that every “socialist” like Murphy would love to have. I bet he is jealous.

    42. gordoz says:


      Hey B&Q – WTF you told us there would be job losses & closures if we voted for independence !!!!

      I see what you meant now by Best of Both worlds guff ????

      Bet the staff are feeling right ‘Better Together’ now !

      Safe with the Union ? ..

      B&Q, North Sea, City Link ?

      Scotland come on ..

    43. Bob Mack says:

      Alan Cochrane has this story as his main theme in the Telegraph today.Poor Labour betrayed by 11 dire ,selfish Nationalists.Is this really all they have with just 5 weeks to go?

    44. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @galamcennalath (11.16) –

      There’s so much scurrilous stuff around though, that’s the problem. I mean, you really wouldn’t credit what happens if you google Blair’s middle names.

      You really wouldn’t…

    45. think again says:

      The self styled “Scottish Labour Party” are in their death throes and desperately trying to cling on to their power base. In the circumstances any lie will do as their remaining supporters are, as the Penman and Noel say, low information voters.

      I browse or is that troll Labour on the web, Labour List for example has one Scottish story a week of late and few comment on them. Facebook and Twitter however are awash with Labour lies and they are regularly called out by Yessers. This does not seem to bother Labour so what is the reason?

      Are they beyond shame or do they actually believe what they are saying? Not sure which of these two frightens me more.

      Or is it the case that Labour are actually scared of success? They could have stopped an SNP minority government and they could have stopped a Tory LibDem coalition but walked away from both.

      Perhaps they are genetically programmed to be in opposition. In which case Nicola was spot on, they lack a back bone which we are happy to supply.

      Will they, given the opportunity, walk away from that as well?

    46. Desimond says:

      Somewhere Jim Murphy is practising his Neil Kinnock “We’re Alright” speech

    47. frogesque says:

      O/T – somewhat.

      I have a heavy weight on my shoulders. My Scottish pound notes are no longer welcome in England, even in places where, previously I had no problem. Yet Scotland’s oil revenues, spirit duty, road tax, VAT, fuel duty and all the other taxes that I pay as my fair contribution to the UK are.

      My vote is no longer accepted as part of a democratic process because I dare to want MY voice heard. My vote is wanted for others that I do not support and other parties I have no affinity for. I am deamonised and denigrated and reduced to second class status in a Union that begged me to stay a part of.

      I am told my OAP is threatened if Scotland is independent, yet, if I lived in Spain, France or Germany it would still be paid. This, despite all my NHI and income tax being paid centrally for the whole of my working life.

      I am weary of lies, repeated historical airbrushing, a media that is now so biased it can’t even see its bias and brooks neither dissent or honest discussion while treating me like a two year old despite having had, against all odds, a decent free tertiary education in Scotland. Something I would never have achieved had I remained in England

      I am tired, old joints begin to ache and I am threatened with the break up and privatisation of the SNHS, My grandchildren cannot afford a mortgage and have to pay extortionate rent for a private let.

      I could go on but I am tired.

      Yet a tiny flame still burns, it may be small but it is white hot. I not only wish for and want change. I demand it!

      So, dear Mr Cameron, Mr Clegg and Mr. Milliband I will damned well use my vote AS I SEE FIT. It not for sale neither is it yours to abuse.

      PS. Mr. Murphy, grow up and get a life, I mean a real one, not the pretendy Alice in Wonderland one you have now in the branch office.

    48. Barontorc says:

      Turn over a stone and you’ll find something crawling under it – but that’s the habitat for those creatures that do.

      What we’re experiencing via Labour’s finest is the wilful dismantling of life as we expect it to be, into a habitat that suits their own specific mores; greasy pole climbing, graft and corruption, expenses troughing, lordshipping and erminating.

      All of it is neither pleasant nor desirable and it must be really despairing for those Labour supporters who steadfastly feel bound to cling to their ideals.

      A very sorry state of affairs. The labour movement in Scotland simply must tear it all down and resurrect as a new principled party. England can look after its own and good luck to them.

    49. Free Scotland says:

      Labour are still sticking to the Tony Blair trick, embracing the Third Way. That’s the one that allows you to be a socialist with capitalist pretensions or a capitalist with socialist pretensions, depending on your audience of gullible voters.

    50. Robert Peffers says:

      The first thing the average history buff learns upon taking serious interest in history is that most school history is total bunk. I was lucky, at both primary and secondary school, to have been taught by, (among others), two exceptionally gifted teachers. They were brother and sister and from a long family line of gifted Scottish teachers. Both made the learning of what were normally regarded as a dry, uninteresting subjects, (and not just history), an interesting and inspiring experience.

      These two made, “dry”,subjects live and interesting. Above all they cut through the myths and lies to the real stories. Which true stories turned out to be far more interesting and inspiring than the lies and myths they replaced. Strangely, when properly explained, the truth was glaringly obvious.

      The history of Britain was first recorded in writing by the Romans and thereby hangs an interesting tale. Much Roman recorded history was motivated, as it is today, by politicians with rather large, politically biased, axes to grind. Indeed much of the history of Romans in Britain was much more motivated by the leaders desire to advantageously further their own political careers within the Roman Empire than the simple fact they had come for metals and minerals such as tin, copper and lead.

      Nothing much has changed since that elite Roman leadership rewrote history to further their own personal political careers. Put simply – the politicians today are still lying through their teeth to further their, and their party’s, political advancement. Yet a very short moment’s thought can show the ruling Establishments have always rewritten history. i.e. taught history is mainly political propaganda and it always has been. Truth is not actually stranger than fiction.

    51. almannysbunnet says:

      @ Mae Carson
      @ James Kay.
      I know I know it just leapt out of the page at me. Instant Spike Millegan skit jumped into ma heid
      “Yes gentlemen and what can I do for you today?”
      “We’ve come not to vote”
      “ok sooo what have you come for?”
      “jees you thick or sumpin, we have come not to vote”

      I’m just having a senior moment, ignore me, I’ll go away.

    52. Barry Blust says:

      “What sickens me is, the depravity of that era, must have been an open secret, and yet Blair puts her on a pedestal.”

      I agree with Valerie and am sickened. I would add our current era has bred a crop of depraved liars who feel no shame as well.

    53. frogesque says:

      gordoz @ 11.55

      You forgot Tesco!

    54. Luigi says:

      think again says:

      31 March, 2015 at 12:00 pm

      The self styled “Scottish Labour Party” are in their death throes and desperately trying to cling on to their power base. In the circumstances any lie will do as their remaining supporters are, as the Penman and Noel say, low information voters.

      Yep, but in their efforts to retain the ignorant, they have seriously offended the informed.

      And there lies the big problem for the red tories – once people break the Labour habit, they never go back. It’s a slow process, when a major party gradually implodes, but the end result is already determined.

    55. Brian Fleming says:

      Sandra says:
      31 March, 2015 at 10:50 am
      It’s odd they don’t mention letting the Tories in at the last election. Brown could have struck a deal with the Libdems but didn’t.

      Actually, Sandra, he couldn’t. Nick Clegg had said he wouldn’t do a deal with Labour as long as Brown was their leader. So Labour could have done a deal, but only without Brown.

    56. bookie from hell says:

      Two posties in my stair today,one just delivering labour election leaflets.

      obviously Labour don’t have foot soldiers to do it themselves

      3rd labour leaflet in two weeks

      they are SCARED

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      If Alan Cochrane and the Telegraph are singing the Labour 1979 tale of woe then Labour really ought to look at where they are politically.

      The Tories are crapping themselves that Labour and the SNP will come to an accord and introduce a pretty radical government. There is a wild attempt to try and demonise the SNP and force Ed into refusing to cooperate with the people that could ensure he gets into No 10. If Labour find succour in that then they need their bumps felt.

    58. muttley79 says:

      The 1979 ‘stabbed in the back’ myth by the SNP that SLAB have perpetuated since that year, is a load of old bollocks. It has no basis in reality. It is clear that the Labour Party in England have never believed it. The Labour administration of 1974-1979 was an absolute shambles. The fact that Labour in Scotland continue spouting this obvious lie is evidence of two things, firstly, they hate the SNP with a passion, verging on the hysterical, and secondly, they have completely run out of ideas ,and are in an utterly desperate state.

    59. HandandShrimp says:


      You are blessed…I have had one so far this election from Labour. 3 from the SNP and nothing from any of the others….oh and a “Scotland’s Changing” thing which I am not sure counts as from anybody.

    60. Arabs for Independence says:

      BBC bastards at it again. Radio news at 12:30 told us again what Murphy and labour would do, they told us what Ruth Davidson thought of the SNP and what the thoughts of Lib Dem Carmichael were. No mention of any SNP view, policy, input.

      So glad I don’t pay for this tripe.

    61. Ali says:

      “bizarre” – “strange, peculiar, odd”

      For Labour this is standard practice, and has been for decades. From that perspective it’s not even surprising – it’s just that the events in question are ever further away. As they vanish into the past, so it seems Labour’s Scottish cohort will also

    62. Kevin Evans says:

      I see the BBC are hitting pylde with the same lies as there hittin the SNP with. Votes not for labour are votes for the tories.

      Seems to be the mantra

    63. Kevin Evans says:

      Oops plaid

    64. frogesque says:

      The future, as written by winners!

      You’ll have to put in the http // www . bit as well

    65. gerry parker says:

      Aye Tesco.

      Me and a friend pop into one now and again for a coffee.

      Each time at the checkout we are asked “do you have a loyalty card”

      I reply – “No – I always shop at Lidl”

      Checkout girl has a wee look over her shoulder then with a smile says. “Aye, so do I”


    66. Mealer says:

      Next time someone tells you the SNP are anti English,remind them that the SNP has more English born members than any other Scottish political party.

    67. muttley79 says:

      Rev Stu, it seems your dastardly machinations have been uncovered by the poster Fred on Craig Murray’s blog. He says this:

      They gained so many members because they are not a political party any more they are a cult.

      Poor Nicola, supposed to be leader but Alex was swanning around London talking like she didn’t exist and she can’t control the majority of her members. They are controlled by a man who lives in Bath who calls himself a Reverend and has a logo disturbingly like Nazi insignia. He has used social media to brainwash the young and vulnerable. They are the ones who joined en mass and hijacked the party.

      Is this the end of Wings?… 😀 😀

    68. almannysbunnet says:

      History will also show that North Sea oil didn’t drop down dead after the referendum in 2014. ASCO just signed a £100 million contract with BP. ASCO (Aberdeen service company) is a local company, BP is the company that said a few short months ago that we are all doomed. The John Wood group has just signed a multi million dollar deal with Total and last week a £40 million deal with Statoil. There are cut backs and it’s hard but as anyone in the industry knows this is cyclical, about every 10 years by my reckoning. In the end history is written by the victors. Labour started writing too early because it is not yet the end.

    69. A MacRitchie says:

      What grinds my gears
      On Saturday I asked if I had heard right re BLBC statement that the SNP were to blame for J Callaghan’s 79 vote of no confidence. While watching the SNP conference highlights on Sunday the BLBC yet again sneaked in a comment re The SNP’s “support” for the vote in 79. PLEASE someone from the SNP while being interviewed on the BBC or especially the BLBC branch bring this issue up and put the facts out there and put this to bed once and for all.

      The interviews with the BBC and BLBC are becoming pointless for SNP to get there policies across.

      We had Gordon Brewers psychotic rant at Angus Robertson on Sunday morning. If you don’t let people answer the question before you try to shout the answer you want the interviewee to give what’s the point?

      On the daily politics show yesterday Andrew Neil and his tori sidekick witch asked both the Labour and Tori representatives about economic policy. The tori witch continually repeated the party line economic growth and Labour tried to justify differences in policy. Stuart Hosie wasn’t asked he was irrelevant. However he was questioned on the oil price slump. Now it would seem to me that progressive non unionist panellists are going to be used to try and ridicule them at every turn. Now the answer he gave was on party lines but I feel he should be stating that no one could have seen oil price crash due to American fracking and keeping oil prices low due to the Russian policy and OPEC keeping prices low to maintain percentage of sales.

      But what grinded my gears was although Stuei man is a good clear precise calm speaker I was urging him to intervene while the Tori witch continually was left to rant and repeat the same points over Tori economic revival.

      So here is what he should have said and lets hope Nicola Has got more balls on Thursday night when standing next to the Bulling don Club boy.

      1 they missed all their economic targets they set. (apart from destroying the welfare state)

      2 Borrowing has increased under this coalition.

      3 Food banks have increased.

      4. People are working for less wages. Zero hrs freeze on wage increases.

      5. Tax breaks for the rich. (50p tax rate reduced)

      6. The most vulnerable people in society have payed for the banking meltdown and austerity programme implemented.

      7. Social injustice more adults and children in poverty.

      8. 12 billion of welfare cuts promised but cant say what who is going to be affected.

      9 The question over will the SNP support a labour Gov. if they go with renewing Trident. This question is going to be asked again and again. So the answer has to be made more clearly than yesterday. We all know its going to be implemented as unionist parties will vote for it. So is this a definite red line are we just going to vote against this or are we stating no supply of confidence vote if this is put into Queens speech???????

      So lets see a bit more energy in answering questions and not just sit there a let the BBC put unionist policy out there without questioning it.

      A moratorium should be put in place until the BBC and BLBC show a bit more respect to SNP and others and they are not invited just to promote scaremongering for English voters and to try and ridicule for their own entertainment.

    70. Proud Cybernat says:

      The seven leaders’ debate. Sturgeon to speak second last, before Cameron (last). Get your questions in:

      TV has asked the audience for their questions while viewers have been asked to submit questions via debate [at] itv [dot] com.

    71. Barontorc says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      31 March, 2015 at 11:59 am
      @galamcennalath (11.16) –

      There’s so much scurrilous stuff around though, that’s the problem. I mean, you really wouldn’t credit what happens if you google Blair’s middle names.

      You really wouldn’t…

      I take it you’re referring to ‘Sex Offenders Register –’ Unbelievable indeed – but is it true? If so, what are we doing as a country???? God above!

    72. Sandra says:

      Brian Fleming wrote:
      “Nick Clegg had said he wouldn’t do a deal with Labour as long as Brown was their leader. So Labour could have done a deal, but only without Brown.”

      Thanks for pointing this out, but Brown stood down as leader anyway so how much credence can we give Clegg’s version of events?

      By the way, how does one do quotes here?

    73. bookie from hell says:

      Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls said he’s going to buy a controversial Labour immigration mug…

      labour split

    74. Did Glen Campbell from BBCLabour not confirm this Labour lie by confirming that the SNP bought that government down the other week on air?

    75. scunner says:

      @ Muttley79

      Is this the same “Fred” who routinely finishes off his posts commanding anyone who has the temerity to challenge his viewpoint to “f off and die c***”.

      I can’t believe Craig has no way to block the comments of this potty-mouthed individual.

      Or maybe it is better just to leave the posts to illustrate the rabid pig-headedness of the cyberUnionist.

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      @Valerie says: 31 March, 2015 at 10:29 am:

      ” … What sickens me is, the depravity of that era, must have been an open secret, and yet Blair puts her on a pedestal”.

      Much has been written, filmed and broadcast through the years on, “The Rise and fall of the Roman Empire”. Usually these highlight the depth of depravity that Rome sank to and often these media outlets blame the depravity for the fall of that great Empire. Are you really surprised at the parallels, first with The British Empire and now also the United Kingdom setup?

      Incidentally, Lord Acton, a British historian of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries wrote a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887.

      In that letter he wrote, “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men”.

      To emphasise my previous post that – ‘history always having been re-written by politicians’, I now make the following point.

      Most people have been brainwashed to believe the originator of that quotation was William Pitt the Younger, the Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778. However, this is a lie but Pitt did quote something similar in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770, he said, “Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it”. This is recorded in Hansard.

    77. Cyborgnat says:

      The “Red Flag” faded over the years to ‘Palest Pink’ and more recently to white as they surrendered any trace of socialism to become the second right of center party in the British Establishment.
      Their rewriting of history is quite beneficial really as the more they delude themselves the less likely they are to face up to their real problems.

    78. john king says:

      Craig P says @ 11.17am
      “Anyone for any more Labour Facts*?

      *(may not contain actual facts)”

      You dithint thell me it conthained NUTS!!!!!!!! 🙁

    79. frogesque says:

      bookie from hell says:
      31 March, 2015 at 12:59 pm
      Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls said he’s going to buy a controversial Labour immigration mug…

      labour split

      The poisoned chalice!

    80. A MacRitchie says:

      Forgot to mention that we should be asking the Tories who have they got in mind to make an alliance with to keep them in power lets get an answer to that……….??.

    81. author_al says:

      OT So angry at the bias on the John Beattie Radio Scotland prog just now. A several minutes long plug for Jim Murphy and extensive direct quoting of his drive against food banks and austerity. No analysis or comment that Lab voted for 30 billion in cuts to spending.

      Then comes thirty seconds of saying SNP want to raise public spending slightly. The reporter then deliberately conflates SNP drive to combat austerity with Labour. Two different things, two very different approaches, mate. I switched off when he went onto the Tories.

      Catch up with it later and share my disbelief and incredulity at such partisan Pro Labour spin and propaganda. A great example of bias…broadcast around 1.15 PM. ..

      Better start my engine and get on with my journey…

    82. A MacRitchie says:

      Point 10 re Tori economic revival should be the fall in oil price which has reduced prices which has fortunately for Tori policy has made them look as though they are succeeding but when the Americans cant afford to sustain the oil price at this level it will increase and so will the cost of living and inflation.

    83. X_Sticks says:

      @John king

      There’s only nuts left in the labour party 😉

    84. seanair says:

      Just to add to the “1979 situation”. On a bus, grabbed a Metro and read the letters page where some dinosaur triumphantly blames the SNP. No mention of course of all the others involved.
      Can’t believe that someone is still pushing this line when there is ample evidence that it is wrong. Can only think therefore that it is DELIBERATE lying to smear the SNP. Of course the Metro is a Daily Mail offshoot so the letter-writer could well be one of the staff.

    85. Caledonius says:

      @ Mealer

      That’s the wonderful thing about the SNP and larger independance movement, we have Scots-born, English-born, Irish, Welsh, Europeans, Africans, Arabs, Asians and even Americans and Canadians who all share Scotland as our homeland and are united in our desire to remove her from this cruel Union that thinks only of the rich and the elite.

      Austerity forced on us by a Tory Government with no real mandate in Scotland (1 MP of 59). Constantly told we’re all a bit rubbish. And have a look at what frogesque says at 12:07pm. Is it any wonder we want out?

      But sadly Mealer, Jim Thomson (see his post at 11:23am) has shown we can tell hardcore unionists we have English and others in our ranks, we can point to facebook pages like English for Independance, Irish for Independance and literature from several ther grassroots groups. But that requires us to provide lots of facts and figures.

      Much easier for them to sick to ‘SNP blood and soil nazi nationalists who hate the English’.

      The Labour party and Unionist parties thrive on lies, they breathe lies, they are the walking talking personification of lies. However as someone mentioned, once you wake up to this – you are free forever. You will never again be taken in by their lies.

      1.6 million of us have woke up already, and I believe many thousands more have since joined us since September 2014 as the Vow has unraveled, along with those who have confessed to regretting voting No for many other reasons. Thankfully all these people will no longer be taken in by the lies of Labour – is it any wonder the Red Tories are in such panic? Their lies are for control over the people – without them, they have nothing.

    86. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mae Carson says: 31 March, 2015 at 11:20 am:

      “You have to be physically in the chamber to ‘abstain’ from a vote, if you are not there you are recorded as ‘absent’.”

      Great Post, Mae. You drove that nail head flush with the wood with one hammer blow.

      If you don’t mind I’ll amplify that a little. That fact is exactly how the elected members of, “The Scottish Branch Office of London Labour”, distort the Hansard Reports and how the Establishment co-operates by calling certain votes on Friday afternoons. Both lots, Blue/Yellow Tory and Red Tory know full well the Scottish Labour poodle members will be on early flights home to Scotland.

      Thus they are recorded as absent but are effectively abstaining and thus giving the Blue/Yellow Tories a free run. The Red Tory poodles would be as well voting with the Blue/Yellow Tories. How many SNP or Plaid Cymru initiated bills or votes are manipulated to be voted upon on Friday Afternoons?

    87. Lollysmum says:

      Frogesque @12.07pm
      What an excellent post 🙂

      Re Craig Murray’s blog-I gave up reading it as all it seemed to be was posters knocking lumps out of each other. I decided that my time was better spent elsewhere!

    88. Papadox says:

      EBC “NEWS” channel today advertising itself as the TV channel that cuts through all the spin to bring you the facts and truth in the stories from a unbiased point of view.


    89. Stoker says:

      From the BBC files (On This Day In History).

      The BBC Is Corrupt by Christian Wright.

    90. Silver19 says:

      @cynicalHighlander It was BBC’s Tim Reid last week making up stories that said Labour blamed the SNP bring down the Callaghan Government.

    91. muttley79 says:


      Yeah that is the one. He has said to me to ‘fuck off and die retard’ quite a few times. So he varies it slightly!

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macca73 says: 31 March, 2015 at 11:26 am:

      “Without the internet to promote the trust and truth in the matter this would have been allowed to go on and on.

      Indeed in the mainstream media they still think that this is the case end are quite prepared to let labour keep churning up this line.”

      Tell you what, Macca73, I’m quite certain that the MSM, and in particular the BBC, are NOT unaware of either the truth or the effect they have on those who use the MSM and BBC.

      I have pointed the following out several times but it has largely gone unnoticed. Most people just believe that the TV Licence fee is collected and kept by the BBC to finance the BBC. This is total rubbish. The truth is exactly what the term Licence claims it is. It is a fee demanded by the UK Government that, “Licences”, the fee payer to receive Broadcast Video from any source.

      The BBC collect the Licence Fee on behalf of the Government as they also do for several other Licenced services the BBC provides for the UK Government – including BBC Foreign Services, Radio & TV interference and certain other communication services like Amateur Radio Licencing, Inshore Radio Services, et al.

      For all these services the UK Government make a Grant – not dependant upon the collected sum for TV licencing. The truth is that the BBC relies almost totally for its income on the level of the grant made to them by the UK Government.

      In other words YOU do not pay directly for the BBC radio & TV services. Their paymaster is now, and always has been, HM Government and the UK Government always have called their paid for piper’s tunes. As to the dead tree press and commercial Broadcasters their paymasters are Big Business – i.e exactly the same master as has the UK government.

    93. @Silver19

      Thanks for correcting my assumption as I only ever listen at blue moon time.

    94. Fred says:

      @scunner, certainly no this Fred, there are a few Fred’s on the Threads.

    95. manandboy says:

      Can anyone seriously argue that the UK has not sunk
      to the levels of North Korea.

      If Unionist politics and economics continue to hold sway in the UK
      where on earth are we going to be in ten or twenty years time.

      Perhaps we’ll have closed borders and a ban on foreign travel,
      so that the rest of the world can’t see how corrupt the UK has become.

      Independence is our last hope.

      Vote SNP.

    96. A MacRitchie says:

      Re manandboy comment at least NK is independent it must still have some public owned assets we’ve sold everything to anybody for the sake of a tax cut under unionist Gov. It does not owe anything to IMF or world bank which must irritate the Americans like hell. We came close to be ethnically cleansed if we had voted yes. And we are on the verge of the population starving due to austerity cuts. If we had nuclear weapons we might have forced independence as this seems to be the only way to keep colonialist countries in check so nope cant argue.

    97. De Valera says:

      Labour are now blaming the demise of Third Lanark on the SNP.

    98. A MacRitchie says:

      We(scots)may even be worse off as what is it that Renton said in train spotting?

      We are the whipping boys on neo liberalists capitalist colonialists. Doesn’t say much for our self esteem. And 55% voted for it. Cant get any worse than that.

    99. Big Jock says:

      Slightly off topic!

      Here’s something we hear quite a lot:”Buy British”.

      Someone representing Scottish Dairy was on the radio the other day and said. It should be:”Buy Scottish”. Why?

      Well he pointed out that 97% of butter sold in Scotland originates from outwith Scotland! Most of it is made in England. Buying British helps England not Scotland. The same for cheese. The most popular seller in Scotland was from Cornwall.

      Anyone who goes into their Fridge or larder will see that less than 5% of what Scots buy is made here. 80% of our food is produced or franchised in England. That’s why Scotland never grows as an economy. We the consumer buy basic stuff like Bread and Butter which is made outwith Scotland.

      Companies like Coke and Heinz. Have franchises in England. They provide jobs to English people not Scots. They have the same in Eire as they are independent. We have the ridiculous situation of not beeing able to buy Scottish water in WH Smiths at Edinburgh airport. What must tourists think!

    100. Robert Peffers says:

      @gordoz says: 31 March, 2015 at 11:55 am:

      ” … B&Q, North Sea, City Link ?”

      Now this may not have occurred to some people but the more recent closures of those branch offices in Scotland mostly belong to the companies who threatened to leave if we Scots dared to vote to end the Union.

      If, like me, you immediately vowed never to use those companies or, their associate companies, ever again, then they may just be suffering the resultant backlash of their attempted blackmail of an entire nation. With any luck they may yet go bankrupt soon.

      I know I used to do nearly all my shopping – from food to clothes, white goods, electrics, electronics, hardware, white goods and road fuel, (being disabled road fuel alone was a big item. Even stuff like videos, books CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray, both pre-recorded and blank media. ASDA were down something between £150 – £250 per week from just me alone.

      B&Q have also lost me as a regular customer. They only get my custom now if I cannot get an item locally or on the net.

    101. Sinky says:

      @ 4.22 Big Jock says:

      Problem is that even some Scottish producers are happy to see their stuff wrapped in the Union Jack and can’t be bothered to change that for the Scottish market plus Supermarkets can dictate what they want to see on the shelves.

    102. Robert Peffers says:

      @muttley79 says: 31 March, 2015 at 12:45 pm:

      ” … They are controlled by a man who lives in Bath who calls himself a Reverend and has a logo disturbingly like Nazi insignia. He has used social media to brainwash the young and vulnerable. They are the ones who joined en mass and hijacked the party.”

      Oh! Here! I’m fair chuffed. Someone thinks I’m young and vulnerable.

    103. Ken500 says:

      Where’s the Chilcot verdict. Unelected civil servants are delaying the outcome. The child abuse by Tories MP’s was kept hidden by Thatcher. Hague destroyed the Report. Brown and Blair should be in jail for fraud and illegal wars, causing death and poverty in the world.

      Thatcher kept the Scottish Oil wealth secrect and Labour kept the McCrone Report secret.

    104. Rikki Ferguson says:

      It is a sad reflection of SLab’s respect for an engaged Scottish electorate that they are unable respond to the political realities of the post referendum hole they have dug for themselves. If there is one thing Scottish voters are unwilling to forgive it is Labour’s referendum lies, to pile more lies on top of those is contempt of the highest order….

    105. Author_Al says:

      @Robert Peffers

      The logo is also disturbingly like these too… 😉

      EVAairlines Hello Kitty

      US aerial gunner emblem

      RAF 1942 badge

      Royal Thai Airforce

      Bulgarian Army Airforce Pilot

      UK Para Wings

    106. Shaun the Sheep says:

      Welcome back,hope you enjoyed some time out. I am young at heart and love this site. Have regular breaks, you have lots of followers who are very grateful to read such honest posts.

    107. K1 says:

      Robert (Peffers)

      Your post at 2.46pm really stayed with me and in fact was keeping me awake with the implications of this when it sinks in.

      In essence Licensing (to allow us to ‘view/listen’ to the end product channeled through the ‘signal frequency’ that enables broadcasters to amplify their content/message) that people pay for is no different to having the license to use software from the internet; anti-virus for example.

      So when we all go on about the BBC and its bias in news coverage et al, it’s really a rather futile exercise. As in fact the BBC is not, as you say, funded by us.

      So when reporters and journalists who work for the BBC don’t take the politicians to task with what we can easily discern as obvious lines of enquiry which would get to the heart and more importantly the ‘truth’ of a given matter. For example the Labour (branch) lie of the ‘biggest party forms the government’.

      Is this more likely the reason why? :

      As they are not in fact a public broadcasting corporation funded by the licensing fee, and in fact have no remit, ‘cept as public relations gimmickry, to act in the interest of the public at all?

      And as you state, are in fact a department of HM government; therefore they are truly representing the interests of the established structures, and in fact have ‘shaped’ this very ‘society’ in terms of ‘conditioning’ a populace in how/what to think.

      So really, when a reporter who works for the GBC is speaking to a politician who has sworn loyalty to the HMTQ, they are basically just two insiders pulling of an incredibly well practiced ‘ruse’ on the gullible public?

      The GBC is loyal to the HMG.

      They tell us what’s important, they tell us what to and how to think about the ‘matter under consideration’. And that’s just the ‘news’. The rest of the output…is ‘entertain’ the ‘outsiders’.

      I literally pray that enough of us ‘wake up’ in time. I’m hopeful, but cautious too as that ‘ruse’ has been successful so far.

      Come On Scotland. We Can Do This.

    108. A MacRitchie says:


      Point 9 from yesterday answered today from Nicola. Red Line re Trident on any formal agreement with Red Tories.

      NO coalition with them which wasn’t on the table anyway.

      NO “confidence & supply” arrangement as Milliband has committed himself to Trident renewal.

      Informal “vote issue by issue” basis will be only outcome which will lead to bill being voted through by overwhelming unionist MP’s. Who still under the delusion they are still a world power and need a place at the nuclear table. God have mercy on us the thought that the French would be the only nuclear weapons holder in Europe and leave the Americans the only member of NATO with weapons of mass destruction. What a thought that the Americans wouldn’t earn their billions for the supply of WMD to a bunch of deluded Westminster Elitists. It would be one less opportunity for the Americans to get their ass kissed by a bunch of Etonian upper class politicians and civil servants

      I am glad oor Nicola is sticking by the red line on this issue as am still pissed that the party reversed its position on NATO.

      Re issue with continued bias from BLBC I see that the honourable Sarah Smith had the same contemptible attitude towards Patrick Harvey. Not letting YES supporters finish the answers to questions asked seems to be protocol for nawbag interviewers these days. To prevent viewers being enlightened and the hearing the truth.

    109. Fred says:

      That statement scuppers Brewer’s cleverly conceived ambush of Angus Robertson on Sunday, not that it was very clever anyhow as he’s an arse.

    110. Will Podmore says:

      I completely agree with you that Labour are still sticking to the reactionary Tony Blair trick, embracing the Third Way. They are claiming to be the party of business and the party of the EU – two very unpopular causes across Britain.
      But how does the SNP differ? It too claims to be the party of (Scottish) business and the party of the EU. It also allows you to be a socialist with capitalist pretensions or a capitalist with socialist pretensions, depending on the audience.

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