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History has its eyes

Posted on April 18, 2021 by

Dr Malcolm Kerr joined the SNP in 1967, has contested local council and Scottish Parliament elections and is currently an activist in Cunninghame North constituency.

I’ve been a member of the SNP for long enough to recall the days when the party was capable of generating killer slogans. “It’s Scotland’s Oil”. “Independence – Nothing Less”. Those were the days!

Nothing describes the SNP’s descent towards being the new New Labour better than its choice of slogans in recent years. “Stronger for Scotland” serves only to flag up just how powerless the party’s large contingent at Westminster is. “Progress” is entirely meaningless.

And fellow activists and members may recall just how depressing it was to attend the most recent in-person spring Conference, when the leadership felt that the slogan “Hope” was going to be inspiring. When you’ve been in power for 14 years you’re supposed to DO things, not just hope for them.

We’re getting to the point where we should soon be Blairite enough to invade Iraq. Fortunately, we lack the means.

On this theme, I’ve been encountering unofficial slogans on social media which are intended to focus Yes supporters on independence and implore us to ignore any “background noise”, the most common being “eyes on the prize”.

I took to slapping down the latter phrase on Twitter with a sanctimonious response which pointed out that a “prize”, according to the dictionary, is “a thing given as a reward to the winner of a competition, or in recognition of an outstanding achievement”. But independence is a democratic right. And in any event, it won’t be given. We’ll need to take it.

(I’d almost convinced myself that “Eyes On The Prize” was the title of an 80s Saturday night TV show hosted by Larry Grayson, but that, of course, was The Generation Game.)

“Eyes on the Prize” has some superficial attractions though. A slogan with an internal rhyme is a thing hard to find. It’s catchy. It turns out that it has a much more auspicious pedigree, being the title of a 1950s Civil Rights song from the USA, and itself based on a re-wording of the African-American folk song “Gospel Plow”. So, there’s that.

But I’m still uncomfortable. If we are being asked to keep our eyes on independence, what is it we are being asked to ignore? The Scottish Government’s paltry legacy of legislation over 14 years? The GRA and Hate Crime bills getting slipped through with inadequate scrutiny? The continuing stark contrasts in postcode life expectancy across Glasgow and other cities?

Drug-related deaths? A snail’s progress on land reform? Sharp practice at the Crown Office? The fact we still apparently endorse the discredited (and, let’s face it, always bizarrely named) Growth Commission Report and are still floundering on the currency question? The crushing of internal democracy in the party?

The list is long. But the concentration of power within the SNP’s vanishingly small leadership circle, and its disregard for the SNP constitution, rules, and civilised mores gives huge cause for concern.

An SNP MP requires police protection following threats made by an SNP member, but this elicits no comment or support from the party hierarchy. National Conference, the SNP’s supreme decision-making body, is refashioned as an election campaign rally. The last National Secretary simply fails to acknowledge correspondence from anxious constituency officials concerned about their MSP’s behaviour – a rap sheet involving bullying and harassment, assaults, and misuse of Scottish Parliament resources.

The current National Secretary doesn’t answer correspondence either. Despite admitting a backlog of many months of complaints under the party’s codes of conduct’, no referral – not one – has been made to the Member Conduct Committee since they were elected by Conference in November. Apparently, the wrong people got elected.

A senior MP faces complaints from a staffer about sexual harassment, continuing over some years. A female MP makes inappropriate sexual advances to a party employee half her age while drunk in a London bar. An openly-racist dossier attacking a selection contest opponent emerges from an MSP’s parliamentary office. HQ does nothing.

Draconian punishment does still exist – ask Neale Hanvey – but appears quite arbitrary and unpredictable, seems to be a leadership prerogative and, conveniently, to bypass the SNP’s constitution and rules. Not surprisingly, elected members (with occasional honourable exceptions) fail to make eye contact and fail to speak out. About anything. The arbitrariness is important. How loyal to the leadership are you going to be if you know there are un-actioned misdemeanours lurking in your file?

And for six wasted years we’ve not been talking about independence. None of this feels like we are living in the early days of a better nation. It feels, at times, more like some grotesque synthesis amalgamating the last months of the John Major government with the Dothraki Wedding. How can we inspire communities ravaged by austerity, and then by COVID, without first putting this culture of fear and sleaze behind us?

We might acknowledge that married couples should not share power. For a party leader and party CEO to be husband and wife is an obvious flaw, indeed a ridiculous one. It could and should have been resolved long before it became a standing joke for our opponents.

But even taking that into account, there has been a drastic failure of leadership, which will only bring disappointment and recriminations. We have a current “strategy” providing record polling figures, based on the BBC Phenomenon – Boris, Brexit and COVID.

Polls have been stable for months but they have no basis in actual support for independence. We have not been making that case. We sign up ten thousand new members – seemingly motivated by the fact that our FM hasn’t been forced to resign yet – while long-term activists who are in the know are cutting up their membership cards in disgust.

For all the superficial buffoonery, and the self-harm of Brexit, the British state is robust. With the exception of a brief post-WW2 period, when off-loading former colonies was an attractive expedient, it has not proved easy for anyone to shake off British control or influence. Britain has in recent times been prepared to gun down unarmed civilians in the streets, intern opponents without trial, and experiment with novel forms of torture on its own citizens.

It has permitted, perhaps encouraged, agents of the state to enter coital relationships with the activists they’re monitoring, as an enhanced variety of surveillance. All this where there has been no existential threat. At the moment all we have to endure is tomfoolery with Union Jacks, but it won’t stop there.

We can assume that the Brits are familiar with what has become known as the Law of Requisite Variety (“In order to deal effectively with the diversity of problems the world throws at you, you need to have a repertoire of responses that are at least as nuanced as the problems your face”) and will be gaming many potential scenarios.

There’s no evidence that the Scottish National Party recognises this principle. Postal voting, spewing out “on-message” Facebook posts, and “fighting COVID” just won’t cut it. It is complacency writ large. Relying on salaried professional politicians and their state-paid staff to win independence simply won’t work. It’s less “eyes on the prize”, more “eyes on the pension”.

Independence is a process, not an event. We have to start behaving as if we are intending to become independent. Independence needs to attract the acceptance, or at least the acquiescence, of our current opponents. It needs a sound base of ethics and integrity.

We have to go back nearly 100 years, to the 1922 General Election, to find a time that was as momentous, and replete with possibilities for the Scottish people, as 2021. In 1922 the Independent Labour Party (ILP) swept Glasgow with a landslide victory, taking 10 out of 11 constituencies from the Liberals. Led by John Wheatley, the group headed for Westminster with Home Rule high on their agenda.

But not before offering a contract to their celebrating constituents. At a victory rally in St Andrews Halls, 8000 gathered to hear them make a pledge to the people of Scotland with a historic and stirring declaration. It concluded:

“In all things we will abjure vanity and self-aggrandisement, recognising that we are the humble servants of the people and that our only righteous purpose is to promote the welfare of our fellow citizens and the well-being of all mankind.”

What, then, are SNP MPs doing in London bars, getting publicly drunk, and sexually harassing their staffers? As servants of the people, how humble are our “futile 46”?

We either need a new leadership ethic, or a new leadership. One which respects diversity, understands the need for cooperation and delegation, one which is prepared to harness and enable volunteers (maybe our greatest asset). Leadership with strength in depth, which doesn’t see a threat in competition from potential future leaders, genuine or imagined.

Leaders who understand that one political party can’t get us to our destination without collaboration across the wider national community. Leadership which is prepared to make the case for independence, now, this year, next year, for as long as it takes.

“Eyes on the prize”? Maybe. But we also require a bird’s-eye view, an eagle eye, and eyes in the back of our heads. Turning a blind eye to the sickness in the SNP is a poor idea for a nation seeking to re-launch itself in the world and it will, in any event, make independence so much harder to obtain.

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405 to “History has its eyes”

  1. kapelmeister says:

    A grand post Malcolm.

  2. sarah says:

    Spot on. Very well and clearly expressed.

    Is anybody in the controlling part of the SNP listening? Will you act before it is too late?

  3. The Isolator says:

    Thank you Dr Kerr.That is all.

  4. Astonished says:

    I cannot disagree with any of that post.

    The murrells have got to go. They have put their personal gain before independence.

    I used to fret about my powerlessness in the SNP. I don’t anymore – I joined ALBA.

    P.S. Can anyone enlighten me with regards to : ” An openly-racist dossier attacking a selection contest opponent emerges from an MSP’s parliamentary office. HQ does nothing.” ?

    Thanks in advance.

  5. Derek Cameron says:

    Would like to see SNP try to rebut these arguments as opposed to mindlessly rubbishing them Wishart style.

  6. Ian says:

    All SNP MPs and MSPs should be required to give 10% of their basic salary to an independence fighting fund. Not only would this bring in £750k per year, it would also focus their minds on independence again.

  7. Wee Willie says:

    An excellent article Dr Kerr. I agree that Independence is a process and it does need to attract a much wider section of the Scottish people. The current regime will never achieve that.

  8. Daisy Walker says:

    Very well written.

    I see Alex has put the cat amongst the pigeons again – Scotland will have its own currency… ASAP.

    Superb. That is not going to go down well in sunny old ‘blue sky’ England is it.

    First they lose all the wealth that Scotland generates, then the sea and land mass, then the energy potential and water reserves.

    I read somewhere that Scotland produces in the region of about £200 billion per year to the Westminster accounts….

    The GBP is going to take a massive hit.

    If Scotland starts to use its own currency it will have no place to hide.

    Brilliant tactics from Alex, even if Boris doesn’t want to negociate… the powers behind him are going to force his hand.

    And also in one fell swoop, the old trope, ‘Scotland will not get to use the Pound’ is out the window.

    So good to have someone serious and able leading the Indy campaign again.

    The ineptitude (I’m being nice) of the SNP is becoming all the clearer in its presence.

  9. Bartleby64 says:

    Great post. Pragmatic, honest, straightforward and forward looking. As a unionist I hope that there aren’t many more like you! On second thoughts, maybe there should be and then maybe my views would change.

  10. Davie says:

    Hi Malcolm

    Great article. Do you recommend voting SNP in the constituency ballot?

  11. Presumably the author is now in a re-education camp?

    If you’ve got Amazon Prime and a spare 45 minutes, look up a documentary on Scientology. The parallels are glaringly obvious – a slavish cabal devoted to an all-knowing leader where no dissent is tolerated and any competing groups are demonised. Scary stuff.

  12. Quoth the Raven says:

    Well said. Thank you.

  13. AnneDon says:

    I know so many people who, like yourself, joined the SNP decades ago and are now sickened by the leadership. Some have actually left.

    The leadership might be able to ride out an election where no-one’s leaving the house, but when they need volunteers to pound the streets for the council elections, it’ll be a different story.

    The problem is, the indy movement needs an SNP that is fit for purpose. And all roads to democratic change within the party seem to have been removed.

    I hope that activists are able to take their party back. Otherwise, it’ll be a long haul creating a new one pro-indy infrastructure.

    When George Robertson said devolution would kill independence, I never thought the agents would be the SNP leadership!

  14. Robert Hughes says:

    Truly excellent post Malcolm , for which , many thanks

    “In all things we will abjure vanity and self-aggrandisement, recognising that we are the humble servants of the people and that our only righteous purpose is to promote the welfare of our fellow citizens and the well-being of all mankind.”

    The complete antithesis of what we’ve ended-up with eg… vain , self-aggrandising clowns who’ve come to believe they are doing US a favour by their mere existence .

  15. Cadogan Enright says:

    Note sure what Malcolm is suggesting for this election with the vote just days away. Looks like a rehash of everything we know with no practical application for Alba in the short term. Meanwhile . . .

    We need to read this electoral commission guide – page 6 in particular

    Having attended dozens of election counts over a 40 year political career in elections using FPTP, single transferrable votes, list etc etc for both elections I was running in and where I was election agent —–

    I can tell you for a fact that

    ‘1’ on the constituency ballot just might be accepted instead of an ‘X’

    but ‘2’ on the list ballot instead of ‘X’ is pretty sure to be a rejected vote


    Alba needs the SNP to win constituency seats to have any hope of picking up list seats.

    Can Stu please wake up and small the coffee?

  16. somerled says:

    Are you still voting for the SNP Malcolm?

    If Yes, then you get what you deserve and you help destroy women’s rights too.

    Actions speak louder than words. Only annihilation at the ballot box will help fix the Sturgeon & Woke culture problem.

    Will you wheesht for Indy instead?

  17. Caledonia says:

    Must agree with all this but people in the SNP who are witnessing this need to speak up before its too pate.

  18. Robert Hughes says:

    ps is there any way we could keep the Legion of Spam from polluting this thread with their idiocies ?

  19. Betty Boop says:

    This is an excellent piece (for the most part) and useful for anyone trying to explain the need to think about list votes:

  20. McHaggis69 says:

    Hate to say it Rev, but this is *BY A COUNTRY MILE* the most eloquent, hard-hitting and deserving of rapturous applause thats been on your blog for some time.

    No disrespect – you set a high bar – but this nails so much in so many ways – its inspiring.

    One of the less know traits of the FM is her inability to delegate (although it should be clear given she sidelined her health minister to deliver daily CV19 briefings) and this line is just so true – “One which respects diversity, understands the need for cooperation and delegation”

    Word inside is her inability to delegate is legendary. A big problem.

  21. kapelmeister says:

    Caledonia @11:13

    “..people in the SNP…need to speak up before its too pate.”

    Blackford already looks like he’s had a lot of foie gras in London.

  22. Eugene Henderson says:

    Cadogan Enright 11.10

    “Alba needs the SNP to win constituency seats to have any hope of picking up list seats.”

    That has been proven by others to be a totally false statement.

    And is only pushed by Sturgeon/SNP backers.

    And you are really pushing your luck on here with your never ending critisism of the Rev.

    It’s verging on a hatred of the Rev.

    Because the Rev is no fan of Sturgeon or the SNP or Voting for the SNP, that you are on a personal crusade to openly attack him.

  23. Robert Graham says:

    A very clear appraisal of the current state of this version of the the SNP management .

    This should be required reading for those with any kind of position or authority in the SNP covering your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears while shouting La La La won’t fix this mess , a mess that’s obvious to a whole lot of people but this management seems oblivious to what’s happening right in front of them ,
    a lost cause for people who still have a backbone or a spine ,
    Who knows ? .

  24. X_Sticks says:

    Loud applause from here. The SNP is no longer the party that I joined and supported for decades. I have been forced to question its fitness for purpose under the current leadership. Change must come or the opportunity of independence will disappear.

  25. winifred mccartney says:

    Excellent post -no doubt snp msp’s etc will read then ignore like everything else they should be listening too – they are now in the last chance coral.

  26. stonefree says:

    Well said Dr. Kerr
    I know where you are coming from
    I sat at a SNP hustings in 2015 and knew at that point all wasn’t well within the SNP
    How can I vote for the SNP candidate?
    I won’t compromise MY integrity

  27. Eugene Henderson says:

    If a total stranger arrived on Wings and typed those very same words as Dr Kerr, they would have been labelled a 77th Troll and would have been hung, drawn and quartered by the usual suspects.

    Wings keeps alive the fight against Sturgeon/SNP wrong doings in the public domain.

    I would never give the Sturgeon/SNP my vote on 6th May.

  28. BuggerlePanda says:

    All the above cannot be ascribed to random happenchance.

    I think the SNP has been infiltrated by clandestine “foreign” agents or subsumed to being a permanent devolved colony by way of blackmail, money or personal advancement.

  29. chas says:

    Half of the population in Scotland are basically thick and have no ability to think for themselves is the only reason I can come up with for the continuing ‘popularity’ of the SNP.
    With falling educational standards, the ‘young’ are bolstering the SNP support as they are unable or do not want to see any alternatives.
    It is undoubtedly going to be a long hard road for ALBA especially if it is seen that the message is getting through. Not only will they face the fury from the existing SNP. as is happening now, but when the Tory media get worried prepare for an onslaught.
    ALBA needs support, but not from the existing ‘gravy train’ SNP politicians, where any ‘deflections’ need to be seriously looked at, but Scots from grassroot levels upwards. Easy to say but difficult to achieve.
    Tactical voting on 1 for me and ALBA 2.

  30. Liz says:

    Sturgeon is toxic.

    She just repeated her refusal to work with AS if he gets elected, who the hell does she think she is?

    If the people vote for AS, that’s democracy.
    Something she appears unwilling to support.

    But hey ho, selfies with Alistair Campbell, he of the sexed up document on WMDs which led, albeit indirectly, to the death of David Kelly.
    With Hilary Clinton, war hawk with dubious campaign managers, who’s hubby AFAIK, is to be found in Ghislane’ black book.
    Who appeared to be bffs with Epstein and Andrew Windsor.

    She also repeated the need for AS to apologise to the alphabets, what a goddam hypocrite. She’s handing the MSM ammo to fire at him.

    She also appears to believe in vengence, not forgivness and redemption.

    She is an angry vindictive woman who has no place in the future design of our country.

  31. Daisy Walker says:

    The SNP are going to win or lose on the basis of their own actions – on that I have no doubt.

    I do not believe the polls that say they will cruise an easy victory on the Constituency vote.

    They have pissed off too many of their core supporters, and their ‘loaned vote’ supporters. The mistakes of 2016 are being played again, in magnified version.

    And they are doing it deliberately.

    If the Britnats cannot stop Alba, then they must get Nicla and co to spike their own vote. At all costs the Supermajority must not happen.

    This is not an election to convert former No voters over to Yes.

    This is about establishing Alba and getting them into Holyrood.

    1 Million wasted SNP List votes – or 32 Alba MSP’s including Alex.

    For every single person here who say’s, the SNP have crossed too many lines, their policies threaten womans’ rights, childrens’ safety, free speech.

    You are bang on the money – and their leadership is doing it deliberately.

    My compromise is this, if for moral reasons you cannot vote SNP – I understand, but please consider your local SNP candidate carefully, and if they are not Woke, consider holding your nose and getting them in.

    If you still cannot do that, can you please, acknowledge the power in the Max the Yes tactics, when speaking to others.

    I spoke to an anti Alex Indy person yesterday. Like me (I cannot promote the SNP anymore), they cannot promote Alba… but they are seriously considering giving Alba their List vote.

    And I am going to hold my nose and vote SNP in my consituency, and Alba on the List.

    And I will shed not a single tear if Swinney gets thrown out on his corrupt arse. Not one. But I do it, to max the Alba.

    When people first started expressing doubts about the current SNP direction… the stick they were beaten with was, ‘divided we fall’.

    Max the Yes allows for Indy supporters to agree to disagree and get on with Indy. At no cost to the SNP.

    1 Million wasted Indy votes, or 32 Alba MSP’s.

    And for those who say Alex is that or that re women… Alex has already done more to stand up for womens rights and his female candidates in 3 weeks, than Nicla has in 6 years.

    Another thing the Nicla Loyal were keen to promote, when it became clear there were dirty, corrupt practices at play, was the concept that you need a ‘street fighter’ leading the cause, one who is willing to get their hands dirty.

    Well if you truely believe Alex is a ‘rogue’ against women, given the scrutiny he’s under and what he’s been through, I’d suggest its now time for the cliche – ‘poacher turned gamekeeper’ to be utilised.

    We have a country to save, and its now or never. Max the Yes.

  32. Big Jock says:

    ‘Eyes on the prize’. That sums up the Twitteratti of the SNP.

    They endlessly tweet these slogans , when challenged. There is a whole army of Sturgeon nodding dog clones on Twitter. They can’t answer a single question without reverting to central HQ approved slogans.

    A vacuous army of non entities, who can’t think for themselves, because they are too stupid. Sturgeon loves these types. Because a weak leader needs stasi style followers to protect their ego.

    Its an absolute pile of steaming horse shot.

  33. Fishy Wullie says:

    Great post Malcolm I wish there more like you in the party,

    I no longer see the SNP as a party of independence the best that could be said for them is they’re perhaps not against it, for me Alba is the future

    I know there are some good people like yourself still there but I fear you’re fighting a losing battle Sturgeon has destroyed the SNP along with the hopes and dreams of so many who may now never see they’re country free.

    She has stole the party and used it for her and her husbands own personal advancement, and although it may be cold comfort now history will not look kindly on Nicola Sturgeon the most criminally corrupt inept political leader this country has ever known and god knows she’s up against some pretty stiff opposition

  34. kapelmeister says:

    BuggerlePanda @11:36 am

    It’s a book that’s been cited by Wingers quite often before. The classic study of the tendency to oligarchy in democracy is Political Parties by the sociologist Robert Michels. It does explain a good deal, though perhaps not all, of what we’ve seen happening in the SNP.

  35. Kev says:

    We have a good slogan in the engineering world, often repeated. “Hope is not a strategy”.

  36. Ally says:

    If you want to be treated like an independent nation then you need to act like one.

  37. Everything that is wrong in a nutshell!

  38. Daisy Walker says:

    stonefree says:
    18 April, 2021 at 11:31 am

    Well said Dr. Kerr
    I know where you are coming from
    I sat at a SNP hustings in 2015 and knew at that point all wasn’t well within the SNP
    How can I vote for the SNP candidate?
    I won’t compromise MY integrity

    Fair enough Stonefree. I completely get where you are coming from.

    I suggest promoting Alba on the list.

    Last time out, on the list, the SNP took around 120,000 in each region.

    Next highest was around 73,000 and next again 50,000, 4th place was 20,000 and last was around 17,000.

    If Alba captures most of that 120,000 vote, it becomes far less important how many seats the SNP win on the consituency.

    And as others have advised – don’t use numbers on the ballot paper.

    The both votes SNP rallying cry in my area is, if SNP don’t secure all the votes, Westminster will tell us to stuff it.

    That is not what the election results showed in 2016, and it is not the reason why the britnats are going full biased tonto with regards Alba now.

    Can’t vote SNP anymore, then its…

    Alba for Indy on the list.

  39. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    When an activist of that standing has to write an article in such plain language you are left with no doubt regarding the leadership of the SNP. A person of that experience would have exhausted every avenue before resorting to a post like this.

    Internal democracy has ended within the SNP. Cult Rule replaced it.

  40. Skye Sutherland says:

    Nicola Sturgeon on Ridge this morning vowing not to work with Alex Salmond even if the Alba Party gain a number of msps. This of course is putting bitter personal feelings ahead of your Country’s future.
    Why is she so extremely bitter when Alex Salmond has been found innocent by a majority female jury? How can she put her own feelings in front of independence, when she says she has been fighting for independence all of her life?
    She also said on Ridge that she only requires a simple majority for independence, not Alex Salmond’s super majority. Who in their right mind would turn down a large majority and prefer a small majority for the thing she has been supposedly fighting for their entire adult life?
    Now she’s saying, also on Ridge, that it’s not just about independence, it’s about the right kind of independence.?????
    She said that she doesn’t know what the Alba Party stands for, that they might frighten people away from independence with their more assertive style.
    If Ireland had the meek and craven Nicola Sturgeon as the leader of the Sinn Fein in the early part of the 20th century, then they would still be a part of the UK.
    Just what sort of leverage have the UK got on her, because it’s obvious they are not in the slightest bit frightened by her, the way they would be, and were, with Alex Salmond in charge. This is shown clearly by the contempt shown to her MP’s at Westminster, something that she never comments on.
    Talking of her MP’s at Westminster, Wete Pishart (couldn’t resist), has been tweeting about what a “fantastic” interview Nicola gave on Ridge. Praise indeed. However, l’d just like to warn Pete, that unless he very quickly buys a frock, high heels and a wig, then being a white, middle aged, heterosexual male, no matter how much he crawls, conforms and rolls over for his leader, his jacket is still on the shoogliest of pegs.

  41. Effigy says:

    SNP are awash with issues we can’t stand but not voting
    for them is a vote for Unionism.

    The Irish had to see so many die for their freedom from Westminster.
    Scots are going to just suck up the crap SNP are spouting until we are independent.

    Then we can kick them into touch and put in our people and our policies that are supported by our people.

    I’d cut my arms off before voting for any English party
    and I will always use my right to vote.

  42. Andy Ellis says:

    Coruscating stuff from Malcolm Kerr: can’t disagree with any of it. There must be so many people in the SNP who agree with him, but what have they actually done to try and change the party’s direction?

    History will not be kind to the present cadre of SNP MPs, MSPs and office holders in particular who have – with a few notable and honourable exceptions – lacked the courage to stop the party being eaten from within. I’m not excusing the rank and file sheeple in the SNP membership who appear to be little better, but the buck stops with the elected representatives and officials.

    These people could and should have acted to stop this rot. Their abject failure shows us that not only is the SNP as currently constituted unfit to govern, it is very unlikely that it can be rendered fit to govern. Only in the event of whole-scale changes in leadership, organisation and procedures could they be trusted.

    So, it’s over to you SNP members: put up, or shut up!

  43. Tony Hay says:

    Any polls due out that may gives us a higher degree of optimism.

  44. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Effigy 12

    well said – too many people on here effectively campaigning to stop Alba gaining seats

  45. MorvenM says:

    What an outstanding article.

    My favourite SNP slogan from the old days was “Put Scotland First”. That’s what the party is signally failing to do now.

    The other thing that struck me was the change in the use of the word “diversity”. The SNP used to pride itself on being a “broad church”, with a wide range of views from moderate right to radical left. There was plenty of debate and that attracted members from different backgrounds and experiences who fell out regularly, but reunited in their desire for independence.

    Nowadays, “diversity” is being manipulated by allowing people to self-identify as women, BAME or disabled, skewing the important membership posts towards those who are self-serving, lacking in real life work experience and in thrall to a leadership which itself indulges in narrow cliquery and blatant favouritism and silences or sidelines views it’s not comfortable with.

    It’s hard to see how any of this can change under the current leadership. So sad for the decent honourable members left in the party.

  46. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Democratic-Centralism once offered more scope for membership participation than that currently on offer within this rogue SNP.

  47. One of Nicola’s fan sites reckons the referendum will be before 2024:

    The next UK general election will be held on Thursday, May 2nd 2024. So that rules out 2024 and it must be before then… So, the latest possible date for a referendum is September or October 2023… If for some reason the UK Government manages to win in the courts and stop us from having a referendum, then the SNP will run on a UDI ticket in the 2024 GE.

    Some big claims in there, especially the last one. Can you see that happening cos I can’t.

  48. Dorothy Devine says:

    How very foolish the leader of the SNP looks in her intransigent stance against Alex Salmond. petty and bitter doesn’t even cover it.

    Perhaps someone should suggest she names names so that Mr Salmond and all the rest of us KNOW why and to whom he should apologise.
    As it stands her entrenchment continues in every possible interview and I can assure her it is not a good look.

    It is not acceptable and neither is it logical. Surely there are those in the SNP who can see the idiocy? And if there are where are their voices?

  49. Republicofscotland says:

    Thank you Dr Kerr very well put on the aliments that now afflict the SNP/Scottish government.

    There’s no real evidence to suggest that the SNP are going to deliver independence, for Scotland, nor that they intend to make Scotland a better nation, nor follow through on the policies that you mentioned that they’ve failed on miserably.

  50. BuggerlePanda says:

    Is the SNP, in its current state, not fit for purpose.

    Not fit for purpose.

  51. Shocked says:

    I’m presuming that Dr Kerr will be labelled an agent of the British state or a member of 77th brigade for what he’s said by the sturgeonite trolls who have taken it upon themselves to promote the criminal Nicola Sturgeon.

    I’ve also note some loon above who claims the SNP have been infiltrated by foreign agents… I mean ffs lol! The SNP is corrupt because absolute power corrupts absolutely and when you make it clear to politicians that you will vote for them no matter what they do the end result is what we have today with the New SNP. The people to blame for this situation are not only Sturgeon but the goons who think voting SNP one more time is worth it. It isn’t.

    The only way this will be sorted is if the sturgeon cabal is removed from power. That means sturgeon swinney yousaf robertson and any other SNP MSP complicit in what has happened (most of them, maybe all) all losing their seats, Murrell McCann and Lloyd all out of a job and then the whole lot of them facing criminal charges.

    The SNP is dead, it is now the New SNP, it needs to lose the election and we then we need to start again from the ground up, if the party cannot be saved it must be exterminated and Alba needs to take its place.

    Any person wheeshting for indy or voting SNP (but holding their nose or whatever) is an enemy of a free and democratic scotland, plenty posters above praising Dr Kerr fall into that category as they have been attacking people like me for saying the same as Dr Kerr and telling the uncomfortable but unavoidable truth. Without truth we have nothing.

  52. cirsium says:

    thanks for this essay Dr Kerr. Very well said.

    Independence is a process, not an event. We have to start behaving as if we are intending to become independent.

    Exactly. I’d like to add failure to produce a Maritime Transport Policy and failure to form a constitution to the list of vital activities which are being ignored.

  53. ian foulds says:

    Excellent post.

    SNP ‘hierarchy’ seems to be following same steps of other political parties by riding roughshod over all except their own clique.

    Maybe new members are intent, having seen the debacle over the last 5 years to try to help change things from grassroots level.

    Back to the rest of the post!

  54. Lenny Hartley says:

    Well said Malcolm. I will be sending this to relatives of mine who have their ears closed to me but might listen to you.

  55. Famous15 says:

    If it is not successful for SNP for constituency ,Alba for the list then we get nowhere .

    Anyone saying other that voting SNP for constituency and voting Alba for the list is failing in arithmetic and political understanding.

    Hate the SNP leadership and the clown Pete Wishart all you like but as Alex Salmond knows and has said to do otherwise puts independence back in the box certainly for my lifetime.

    Eugene Henderson is guilty of crooked thinking. It is not proof to pretend others have proved something. Failed his qually in arithmetic!

  56. WeeChid says:

    Effigy says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:00 pm
    “SNP are awash with issues we can’t stand but not voting
    for them is a vote for Unionism.”

    surely, if they have no intention of leading us to independence, then a vote for them is a vote for unionism?

  57. Ruby says:

    Dorothy Devine says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    It is not acceptable and neither is it logical. Surely there are those in the SNP who can see the idiocy? And if there are where are their voices?

    From the article:

    “Draconian punishment does still exist – ask Neale Hanvey – but appears quite arbitrary and unpredictable, seems to be a leadership prerogative and, conveniently, to bypass the SNP’s constitution and rules. Not surprisingly, elected members (with occasional honourable exceptions) fail to make eye contact and fail to speak out. About anything. The arbitrariness is important. How loyal to the leadership are you going to be if you know there are un-actioned misdemeanours lurking in your file?”

    If you can be fired for sending a text I would guess every SNP politician would have some “un-actioned misdemeanours lurking in your file”

  58. Patrick Jones says:

    When you ready some of the comments on Wings these days, it’s as if they are suffering from schizophrenia.

    Because they give us a big speal about how corrupt Sturgeon/SNP are, and finish off with the biggest piece of hypocrisy you are ever likely to read in your life, by telling us to “go out on May 6th and vote SNP 1.

    I just don’t get that.

    Where did their principles go to?

  59. Arch Stanton says:

    One of the more useful things about the penning of such articles, openly declaring such fanaticism, is that it reminds those of us opposed to separation from the UK that there is literally no point in holding independence referendums, not least because the separatist fanatics will simply ignore any result other than a vote to leave the UK and will carry on demanding another shottie.

    As a critique of the SNP, this article has much to commend it, but such criticism could and should be directed at the entire nationalist movement, not one of whom has been able to offer any realistic ideas on how an independent Scotland, outside of the UK, would function, inside or outside of the EU. No one can even provide a clue on what our negotiating position would be on the most fundamental of issues, such as currency, lender of last resort, borders, trade, immigration, debt repayment, deficit control……other than Andrew Wilson, who when faced with a multitude of questions on his quickly buried Growth Commission Report, responded consistently with the phrase “we’ll see”.

    In asking repeatedly for such information, I am frequently attacked on the usual grounds, Toary, English. English Toary and that kind of thing, an experience I find rather amusing, but I never seem to receive any answers, other than “the Scottish people will decide”, an assertion which is, of course, completely untrue.

    Perhaps Doctor Kerr can provide me with some of the answers I am looking for?

  60. Anne Roberts says:

    Well said Malcolm. ?

  61. Famous15 says:

    “Surely if they have no intention of leading us to independence”

    That is why you need Alba for the list and hope they hold the balance of power.

    If Unionists are given a free ride we are sunk!

  62. Luigi says:

    It’s incredibly sad to see so many long-timers quit the SNP. It reminds me what happened to Labour 10-20 years ago. As the late great Jimmy Reid once said about never leaving – the party left him, something very similar now seems to be afflicting our main party for independence. The current SNP leadership have a few big questions as to why this happened, this was allowed to happen, on their watch. Well now that there is a new kid on the block they better try and sort things. An Alba Party bridgehead at Holyrood could easily be the springboard for a full frontal challenge to SNP indy hegemony at subsequent elections if genuine independenistas fail to see significant progress in the next 2 years.

  63. stonefree says:

    @ Daisy Walker at 11:55 am

    Alba is not a problem,
    It was the manipulation of a sleazy MSP that is completely unacceptable.
    I wrote about this in 2015 or 16,
    I got pelters on here !!
    Only in the last month have folk said ” I didn’t believe you but you were bang on” that is it paraphrased
    It’s worth considering that has been 5+ years wasted, except for Sturgeon/Murrell filling the buckets with cash and fleecing the Supporters , and really treating them like shit
    Personally I want to see Sturgeon/Murrell and company in court,
    Don’t care which one Civil or Criminal,any one to start with

  64. Daisy Walker says:

    Alba should declare that any meetings that need to be held with Nicla, will be represented by Tasmina and/or Eva.

    If Nicla wants to still behave like a spoiled child in those instances, a law suit for race discrimination and disability discrimination will soon follow.

    If the leaders of political parties and governments suddenly get to decide who, and who they will not, deal with in a professional capacity, when those other party leaders represent the wishes of the electorate and a country – then they hand a dangerous precident to our westminster opposition.

    ‘Oh no’, will say Boris, Theressa, Cameron and co, ‘One simply cannot, not with those disgusting ‘separatists’ – they stand against everything the Union represent you know, simply not decent’.

    Behaving like a spoiled, petulant, child, not a leader.

  65. Tone says:

    Well, if this is what only a modicum of independence has resulted in; imagine what the full monty would bring.

    Fact is, even if an independent Scotland would want to qualify for EU membership, it will need a proper constitution and a fully functioning economy that could support a balanced public sector.

    This will take years and years, and to quote the yokel: “I wouldn’t start from here”

    Face it, guys, youse are even behind England in achieving full independence. At least they only have 40 years of creeping corruption to get rid of. Scots have much more to clear out, to the point where one could ask if there would be anything left if and when the stables are cleaned.

    Best to vote Lab/Tory, and start the process, with continuing help from the neighbours. I reckon Wales, NI and England would be very happy to continue subsidising Scotland in getting fit enough to pull its own weight, even if the motivation is to gain independence. I mean, who wants a needy greedy nasty Scotland as a neighbour in its current state? Not even the EU, apparently.

    Vote Lab or Tory and push Holyrood for an emergency coalition to tackle the real problems which are actually standing in the way of independence.

  66. Shocked says:

    @Patrick Jones

    These people have been psychologically conditioned by the corrupt leadership of the New SNP, the New SNP even went as far as using someone as creepy as the evangelist Stephen Noon to develop recruiting techniques. Scientology has nothing on that gang of criminals and many of their victims may never be able to think properly for themselves ever again. As I’ve said before sturgeon and Murrell could rape and murder a child live on TV and these goons would still vote for her.

  67. Luigi says:

    As mentioned by a previous poster, the SNP could struggle to get enough activists on the street during a normal election. In the long term this could be fatal. Imagine a few years down the line with a woke SNP devoid of activists fighting against an Alba Party crammed full of activists. I know who I would put my money on. 🙂

  68. stonefree says:

    @ Patrick Jones at 12:23 pm

    “Where did their principles go to?”

    Personally I still have mine

  69. tartanfever says:

    Effigy @ 12.00

    ‘SNP are awash with issues we can’t stand but not voting
    for them is a vote for Unionism.’

    – Likewise, every vote I have given the SNP since 2015 has been a vote for Unionism.

  70. Wee Willie says:

    Spot on. Voting SNP 1 is voting for a criminal cabal. Wake up you cultists and smell the coffee.

  71. Shaza says:

    “The Brits”?

  72. Shocked says:

    @Famous 15

    Park your pro sturgeon trolling. The fact you even try to do this under this article is simple embarrassing.

  73. Al-Stuart says:

    Thank you Dr Kerr,

    This is more like it. Another well written article that should provide a decent level of BTL interaction.


    Malcolm, I bet you £1,000 that your words, prefaced by the fact you joined the SNP in 1967 and have freely given thousands of hours to the battle for Scottish self-determination will soon be highjacked BTL by the extra-ordinary efforts to derail cogent debate. By whom? By British State actors who are joining sites such as Wings Over Scotland akin to a game of 77th Brigade whack-a-mole.

    God help the sanity of Stuart Campbell trying to disinfect the site of these pisharts. Along with the disturbing assaults on his reputation as eloquenty discribed in his article about “Being Wings”.

    My point?

    On 19th September 2014, the British Establishment evacuated its bowels at how very close it came to losing the MOST PRIZED asset it has: Scotland.

    For 300 years, our nation has been exanguinated with her resources leeched by Westminster’s parasitic claws. We are to them a twitching comatose near-cadaver from which they bleed and feed.

    Shortly after the 19th September 2014, number 10 Downing Street authorised a “Never Again” strategy. The objective? To destroy any chance of IndyRef2.

    The brightest minds at GCHQ, and there are some of the highest IQs in the world deployed at that Establishment, were tasked to create a Triumvirate of Indy Extinction.

    1/. A sophisticated way to destroy IndyRef2.

    2/. Create an internecine war within the SNP that would take at least 20 years to heal.

    3/. The Establishment’s eye-on-their-prize in Gloucester, to have Alex Salmond removed from politics forever.

    Be in no doubt, Dr Malcolm Kerr is spot-on and Stuart Campbell’s publication of this article at this time is seminal and apposite.

    They almost managed it. They almost jailed Alex Salmond. They have visited an Orwellian nightmare upon the SNP organisation and Scotland. They almost killed IndyRef2.

    I personally give GCHQ a 98% pass mark on how their years of toil at the Indy Extinction effort has worked. Amost.


    You cannot get a little bit pregnant.

    There is a wee 2% failure, that is analogous to a leak in a massive dam. The water trickles out slowly to start with. But then becomes an awesome sight as the dam breaches. All before us, the tsunami of water progresses. All of us are powerless to stop it.

    That is the embryonic Alba Party my friends.

    Very wee to start but already sending shockwaves through the multi-million pound Indy Extinction plan authored all those years ago in 2014 at 10 Downing Street.

    The British Establishment has without doubt, played a blinder. We all knew Scottish self-determination would be a LOT harder than any of us might imagine.

    What next?

    In order to gauge whether the wheels have come off of the British Establishment’s Indy Extinction plan of 2014, we simply look for Cotporal Jones. That is a metaphor for panic in the Establishment ranks.

    If you see panicky semi-literate efforts to derail IndyRef2 and kill off self-determination in Scotland you will know that we are back in the IndyRef2 game.

    Can you see Corporal Jones types yet? Is there anyone we know who already floods the YES movement with panicky voices that will try any argument, drag out any old McTrope, put up any straw man, woman or inbetweener to waste our valuable time in feckless argument?

    Their objective is to derail the true IndyRef2 movement, to waste IndyRef2 campaigners resources; to demotivate; to sow seeds of division.

    With this very thread, history will see how the British Establishment and their Troll Brigade from 77th Psyops works. As an example, Andy Wanger over-played his hand here and is being withdrawn. We will have Juan, Juan The Brit Bogey Man next, then 1001 other incarnations here and flooded across Scotland to varying degrees throughout YES blogs and IndyRef2 efforts.


    As in 2014, when IndyRef1 was lost and our country slowly became aware we had been stitched up like an Arbroath Smokie with shiny Vows and worthless promises our thrawn nature gave its answer…

    The SNP membership skyrocketed.

    It took Nicola 7 years to deflate that.

    But now we are seeing the Alba Party grow at an exponential rate.

    Yesterday, a friend who is a true and lifelong supporter of the SNP and local branch office bearer changed her social media profile and uploaded the Alba Party logo saying to hundreds of ordinary members…

    You know it makes sense.

    At that instant, I now know that self determination for Scotland is back on the Agenda.

    The British Establishment will throw every dirty trick in the book at Scotland. Please respond simply and in a way that saves you wasting valuable ALBA Party hours in online distraction from the 77th Brigade Trolls.

    Just write three words to show you know you are dealing with the 77th…

    “I see you.”

    That will save your time and bin the millions of pounds this IndyRef2 Extinction effort has cost Westminster.

    It was said that Scotland had one of the most sophisticated electorates in the world. It still does. When the average, relatively non-political Mr and Mrs McWhirter become aware of what the dodgy politicians in London and the self-interested tractors such as Pension Pete and Fat Banker Blackford plus sexy Daddy McWoke McWank Smith have been up to, they will be raging.

    Scots will then vote in ways that inexorably lead to to self-determination.

    Thankyou Malcolm. Now shall we watch and see if the 77th Troll Brigade comes on shift…

  74. kapelmeister says:

    Luigi @12:30

    The council elections a year from now should be an interesting scenario. Alba by then should be stronger and able to take many seats away from the SNP, thus undermining the Sturgeon cabal.

  75. Ruby says:

    All independence supporters can do at the moment is to deny the SNP their list vote.

    SNP 1 Alba X

    is the only choice.


    SNP 1 Alba 2

    Is there anyone posting here who needs to be informed that you put an X on the ballot paper?

  76. Hugh Kerr says:

    Great article Malcolm and great musical choice now when are you coming to join Alba?! You know the SNP are beyond reform!

  77. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    Daisy Walker @ 12:28

    I disagree. Alex is the leader of the Party. Let her refuse to speak to him. Let people see what she has become at every opportunity.
    She is assuming at the moment that she will either have a majority SNP Government or one with Green support.

    Election Results can focus the mind rather quickly.

  78. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Dorothy 12.08

    you seem to have little knowledge of how elections work in multi-party parliaments.

    Party leaders always say they dont need the support of other parties to win the election.

    After the election they say ‘The people have spoken’ and do a coalition.

    Ireland, Germany, Holland – check any Country and its the same – because GB based people are used to the FPTP system they don’t understand these nuances

  79. Shocked says:

    @Al Stuart

    I think you’ve finally cracked under the pressure. I recommend if you’ve got any friends and family you need to spend some time with them and take a break from the internet. Your incoherent rambling attack on Dr Kerr is beyond embarrassing.

  80. holymacmoses says:

    Thanks very much for that comprehensive and percipient article Dr Kerr. Now all we have to do is to give certain folk some reading and comprehension exercises:-)
    Seriously great essay.

  81. Daisy Walker says:

    stonefree says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:27 pm

    @ Daisy Walker at 11:55 am

    Alba is not a problem,
    It was the manipulation of a sleazy MSP that is completely unacceptable.
    I wrote about this in 2015 or 16,
    I got pelters on here !!
    Only in the last month have folk said ” I didn’t believe you but you were bang on” that is it paraphrased
    It’s worth considering that has been 5+ years wasted, except for Sturgeon/Murrell filling the buckets with cash and fleecing the Supporters , and really treating them like shit
    Personally I want to see Sturgeon/Murrell and company in court,
    Don’t care which one Civil or Criminal,any one to start with’

    Stonefree – I agree with every single thing you say here. (I also got pelters, so I understand where you’re coming from).

    However, we are now 18 days away from polling.

    Folk need to concentrate. And they need to focus on what they want to achieve.

    Many, many people in the same boat as yourself. I fear they could end up chewing it over and over until they don’t know what to do.

    If you cannot vote SNP on the Constituency Vote.

    Let us ensure that the List Abla vote is the most it can possibly be.

    It takes nothing away from SNP support. They stand or fall on their own record.

    A worst case senario (I suspect, but admit I have not crunched the numbers) is if that previous 120,000 SNP list vote they got in 2016 gets split 50/50 between SNP and Alba, and the SNP do poorly on the Constituency vote.

    Alba will still take seats, but almost certainly there will be no Indy majority, and the 50/50 split will lead to an Indy vote split. Oh and the unionists will also get in.

    This year represents (on current polling) a perfect storm. It will not come this way again.

    So for anyone who cannot, for good reasons, vote for the SNP anymore. It’s understood.

    However, lets Max the Alba List vote for Indy.

  82. Shocked says:


    A SNP majority or a SNP/green majority is exactly what is going to happen if people vote SNP1, let’s not forget this is exactly what you are campaigning for. You are nothing but a sturgeonite fox in the hen house. We see you.

  83. Ruby says:

    kapelmeister says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:36 pm
    Luigi @12:30

    The council elections a year from now should be an interesting scenario. Alba by then should be stronger and able to take many seats away from the SNP, thus undermining the Sturgeon cabal.


    The GE will also be interesting!

    Not voting SNP will be a lot less complicated than it is now.

    “What, then, are SNP MPs doing in London bars, getting publicly drunk, and sexually harassing their staffers? As servants of the people, how humble are our “futile 46”?”

  84. Arch Stanton says:

    Al Stuart 12.35

    I see you…….

  85. Daisy Walker says:

    TheSNPLeftMe says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:39 pm

    Daisy Walker @ 12:28

    I disagree. Alex is the leader of the Party. Let her refuse to speak to him. Let people see what she has become at every opportunity.
    She is assuming at the moment that she will either have a majority SNP Government or one with Green support.

    Election Results can focus the mind rather quickly.’

    Fair point, she is still setting a dangerous precident though, one that will be used by Westminster against Scottish Indy leaders in the future.

  86. Robert Hughes says:

    Great post @ 11 .335 Al-Stuart .

    No , it didn’t take long did it ?

    1st in Mr Shocked with a bizarre interpretation of your comment- attacking the OP , really ?

    Yes – We see them . they seem to be multiplying exponentially .

    No Pasaran ( without getting their sorry arses skelped )

  87. Robert Hughes says:

    Fck !! ” 11 . 35 ” . ” 11.335 ” is probably more accurately the number of bad faith actors trolling this site recently

  88. robertknight says:

    The SNP is, in every sense of the word, lost.

  89. Prasad says:

    ‘Astonished says:
    18 April, 2021 at 10:59 am
    P.S. Can anyone enlighten me with regards to : ” An openly-racist dossier attacking a selection contest opponent emerges from an MSP’s parliamentary office. HQ does nothing.” ?’

    The link is in the words, look for the blue colour.
    If you have a problem opening an ie archive (vodaphone blocks them), then all you have to do is change the letters ie to vn.
    There are some other sites which work too. Wikipedia has a list so hopefully if and when vn gets blocked one of the others will work.

    Decided to vote SNP1. I have agonised over it but the fact that Joanna Cherry is in the party made me able to do it. My candidate is woke as fuck, so very difficult decision.
    The Murrells will be gone when the truth comes out.

  90. Arch Stanton says:

    Robert Hughes 12.48

    Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you eh?

    Look out look our behind you…….

  91. Rikali says:

    It is very very sad that Scotland has experienced such terrible strife that there are now less than 100 Scots in the whole country.

    Obviously all but a tiny few of the 5.5 million current residents are non-Scot interlopers.

    For it says in the Declaration of Arbroath:

    “… for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule.”

    It is extraordinary that approximatelly 50% of Scots would prefer relative poverty and English rule than relative wealth and self government.

    In future this unusual and perverse phenomenon will be of great interest to political and sociological students. 🙂

  92. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Ruby 12.36

    It is not the politically informed who will be confused. As a local politician I am aware of how little interest people have in the technical workings of the political system.

    If they support a political party they do what the activists say – which is why activists need to get the message right.

    Though I suspect a lot of people on this site never canvass real people and have never worn much shoe leather or got telephone elbow from doing election calls or put a poster up a pole …….

  93. Ruby says:

    Sophie Ridge interviews Sturgeon.

    FF to 17.51 for question re Alex Salmond
    referred to earlier on this thread.

  94. Robert Graham says:

    Aye well very entertaining Tone eh when does your shift end sweetheart ?

    It’s good to see a wide variety of comments and options here some interesting some a bit off the wall , for folk that’s been around the block and been involved since 2014 or before it’s the groundhog day all over again .

    The usual method is used disruption of the thread in question , post a stupid comment that gets everyone involved in a pointless argument with the nut job who posted the offending piece therefore the point of the thread is lost in the ensuing back and forth trading of insults .

    I have lost count now and it can’t be that long until the Hollywood vote ,I say Hollywood because that’s what it pure Theatre with total liars attempting to get their moment in the sun going for the killer line to get themselves noticed ,
    the electorate as usual are just an annoyance and soon long forgotten , the plan goes ahead with or without the support the consent or even the knowledge of the people who voted for them ,

    This happens every time and will keep happening until we waken up and make sure they know who they are working for us , not themselves,not their party , but us we employ them

  95. Al-Stuart says:



    It took you just SIX minutes to Troll me.

    You say I am attacking Dr Malcolm Kerr.

    @Shocked, you write utter crap. I know Malcom. I respect and like him.

    This is fascinating. Just SIX minutes to catch a 77th Troll. Good grief you really must be panicking. Got you in double shifts now?

    @Shocked how on earth can even a 77th Brigade Troll warp my opening words as being an attack on Dr Kerr? I literally thank him from the start…


    Thank you Dr Kerr,

    This is more like it. Another well written article that should provide a decent level of BTL interaction.


    Malcolm, I bet you £1,000 that your words, prefaced by the fact you joined the SNP in 1967 and have freely given thousands of hours to the battle for Scottish self-determination will soon be highjacked BTL by the extra-ordinary efforts to derail cogent debate. By whom? By British State actors who are joining sites such as Wings Over Scotland akin to a game of 77th Brigade whack-a-mole.


    @Shocked is a prime example of a low ranking 77th Brigade Troll.

    These Amadans are on Wings Over Scotland within SIX minutes to derail, divert, extinguish rational BTL contributors time. I only respond once to prove the point.

    The Establishment would NOT be doing its job properly if it failed to kill off IndyRef2.

    @Shocked has proven there are an ever growing Army of new names on Wings here from the 77th to kill off debate and confuse their enemy. Us.

    @Shocked I see you.

    Now please fuckity fuck orf old bean. You ‘ave been rumbled mate. Back to the mess room for you. Go on matey, ‘ave a nice cuppa char dahn the old apple and pairs, ‘cos the Jocks ain’t biting. 😉

  96. Bros. says:

    “at least as nuanced as the problems your face”

    You saying there’s something wrong with my face?

  97. WeeChid says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 12:24 pm
    Independence is normal.

  98. Mia says:

    This is an excellent article. I appreciate that when you are in the party itself and too close to the problem, you may find difficult to see the big picture.

    But for those of us that voted for the party to deliver independence and are in the outside looking in, the spectacle is insulting. Personally I have now completely lost any interest in continuing looking in or actually paying attention to a single word that comes up from Sturgeon or her praetorian guards (I am referring to the handful of usual suspects that immediately emerge on the front pages of the National, twitter or broadcasters as soon as Sturgeon is under fire, to throw a colleague under the bus to distract the electorate from her “mistakes” or to attack yes supporters that do not toe the line).

    As a matter of fact, I do not recall a single meaningful action from the SNP leadership or Sturgeon’s praetorian guard to progress independence. Not one. When the name of one of them pops up in some article in the National or elsewhere, it is never to progress independence. It is always to regress it, to apply the breaks. It is either to patronise us, to discredit yes supporters, to foist on us unscientific nonsense, to blur reality, like when they demand SNP1 and 2, to discredit an SNP or former SNP member they don’t like or to protect the arse of a leader that has never acted even once as a leader in 6 years.

    Walking out of the UK parliament ONCE only to return the next day with your tail between your legs when your party has an absolute majority of Scotland’s seats in the UK parliament and when the raison d’etre of that party is to dissolve that UK parliament, should not be the pinnacle of your career. Returning to that parliament after walking out should be the biggest embarrassment of your career.

    That all you have to speak for SIX YEARS of your leadership of a nationalist party is ONE, one-day-walk out of Scotland’s nationalist MPs and ONE attempt to grab the maze, says that either you are not the nationalist you claim to be at all, or you are well out of your depth and you simply are incapable to lead at the level it is required.

    What many of us looking in are wondering is what on earth are all those SNP MPs still doing in Westminster, when they were sent there to settle up, not settling down.

    Those of us who are looking in, hear SNP drones like Blackford wailing about Johnson, the tories etc because they did this or the other to harm Scotland. And frankly we wonder what the hell do those drones expect when it is their own presence in Westminster what is legitimising that parliament and giving every opportunity to England MPs to abuse Scotland and then claim it was done on “our behalf”.

    Insultingly, we also see so called nationalist MPs like Wishart or Black legitimising the subjugation of Scotland by taking part in so called “Scotland’s affairs committees” that are saturated with England Mps.

    If you seriously want England MPs to stop harming Scotland, then you have to remove the legitimacy of that parliament and “Scotland’s” committees that are not exclusively formed by Scotland’s democratically elected representatives, to continue claiming they are acting on behalf of Scotland. That stands to the obvious. So why hasn’t any of this happened? Why are Black and Wishart in committees allegedly for Scotland but where England MPs have an even bigger say? Why are our 46 nationalist Mps still in Westminster?

    I do not understand why the UK did not end on 8th May 2015 and never will. I will always see that day as the day Sturgeon sold the independence movement and deliberately took the wheels of it. At that point a nationalist party whose raison d’etre was to end the union had the absolute majority of the seats in HOlyrood and 95% of Scotland’s seats in Westminster. All this supported with over 50% of the vote for pro indy parties in GE2015. It is evident that that day the UK ceased to exist as a union. What we have now is a dictatorship where Sturgeon and England’s government are colluding to force Scotland to remain in the union.

    If you don’t have the balls to end the union in that situation you are setting a precedent that can be used against Scotland down the line. Sturgeon has used this continuously for the last 6 years as she has seen 3 absolute majorities of SNP MPs entering Westminster and has done nothing, absolutely nothing about it. What she has been doing is to use our pro indy votes to preserve the union, not to terminate it.

    I have been aghast for the last 6 years at not only how Sturgeon has made absolutely no progress to independence at all, but how she in fact has regressed our autonomy. Willingly and with the most ruthless contempt for the yes voters that put her where she is.

    It is an absolute disgrace and speaks volumes for her absolute failure at leadership that when the more active members of the Yes movement try to bypass what must be at all practical effects the most useless so called pro independence “leader” in Scotland’s history and the most futile political strategy were there was ever one, along come her praetorian guard (because she is obviously to feart to do that herself, heaven forbid her political image could be damaged) to insult them, discredit them or even, ironically, calling them unionists when Sturgeon and her praetorian guard have been behaving far more pro union in the last 6 years than Blair.

    It is not just obvious that this woman has no intention whatsoever to progress independence. Frankly, from where I am standing and judging by her actions that have done nothing other than wasting our time, handing our resources, rights and powers to England MPs and helping those England MPs to force on us England’s rule, I cannot find any other reasonable explanation for her actions than being a plant or being is so compromised that she has become a British state puppet on a string.

    But the result is the same: she has betrayed the yes movement at every turn and yet, she is still in the driving seat and with her foot on the break pedal.

    My question is, why haven’t the SNP members, the other SNP MPs out of the praetorian guard and the MSPs exposed and ejected this political fraud off the driving seat yet?

    Surely I cannot be the only one to realise that the combo Murrell-Sturgeon + the praetorian guard is totally toxic, is eviscerating the party, is destroying its credibility and in doing so compromising the jobs of all those MPs and MSPs.

    So why are those MPs and MSPs letting this to continue?

    It stands to the obvious that the political conspiracy against Mr Salmond is because they feared him doing precisely what he is doing now: to expose Sturgeon’s SNP for the fraud it has become.

    Mr Salmond and Alba have done far more to restore the momentum in they yes movement in 3 fckng weeks than this political fraud has done in 6 long years of deliberate inaction.

    The only reason I will be voting SNP in May (in the constituency, because my list vote goes to ALBA) is because Mr Salmond asked us to and because I can see that a supermajority will be seen by the whole world as a mandate for independence. My vote for the SNP in the constituency does not endorse anything that the SNP stands today for. The only thing that is endorsing is the pro indy credentials that the SNP still retains outwith Scotland. I am voting for a pro indy seat, not Sturgeon’s New New Labour or her toxic policies.

    But this is it. If this political fraud and her husband are allowed to complete the metamorphosis of the SNP into New Labour, I will never vote for that party again and I will be happily stocking up on popcorn to watch Sturgeon’s praetorian guard losing their Westminster seats one by one.

    The clock is ticking. Either those MPs and MSPs put a proper pro indy leader on the driving seat, they force this political fraud to deliver in the next 2 years, because 2 years is what she has left before the yes movement completely bypasses her and her praetorian guard, or the SNP will be confined with Labour to the dustbin of political history in Scotland for betraying the Scottish people. And that will be another victory of the British state.

    We don’t longer need the SNP as a driving force. We now have ALBA. So perhaps it is timely that if those MPs and MSPs wish to retain their jobs in the long term, that they put the political fraud on notice or they show her the way out, whatever is easier and faster.

  99. Cadogan Enright says:


    well said. No idea why Stu does not clear out the most blatant 77ers from the site

    I could make a list – and it is not that long

    It spoils the debate

  100. John McNab says:

    Effigy at 12.00pm

    “I’d cut my arms off before voting for any English party and I will always use my right to vote.”

    You’d have to get somebody to cut your other arm off, then for future votes, you’d need to appoint a proxy. Would that be the same person?

  101. Cadogan Enright says:

    Great post Mia

  102. James Che. says:

    It is interesting to note their are those whom will not even hold their nose to gain independence for Scotland.
    Surely those purposing no vote for the snp regcognise that by default they are suggesting, to hell with AS and the new alba party,
    This mantra is actually running in the same vain as NS opinion when she attempts to keep AS out of Holyrude and away from becoming an important political figure to all of Scotland.
    So surely those here proposing no vote in the constitutancy for the snp are aware that they are blocking the Alba party from gaining list seats.
    With this principle being promoted here on wings, they are doing the work for the snp and NS by preventing Alba from becoming a political force to challenge them the Snp and their atrocious Laws they are passing without scrutiny that are detrimental to all our.

  103. Arch Stanton says:

    WeeChid 01.11 pm

    “Arch Stanton says independence is normal”


  104. Cadogan Enright says:

    @ James Che

    Yup – why would people be on here arguing for a voting strategy that would hurt Alba I wonder ? Hmmm … let me seee

  105. Aquarius says:

    I agree with you, Prasad about voting SNP1. My candidiate is also woke and my current MSP is Labour but with a very slim majority. I, too, have agonised about how to vote. Before Alba came along, I had seriously considered voting Labour (which I have never done in my life) just to ensure that the SNP List candidate did not get my vote. Unfortunately, in view of the SNP List toppers also having been chosen according to their undemocratic rules, I suppose it would make little difference whether the SNP have a woke MSP drawn from the Constituency or from the List.

    In the circumstances, I have therefore, reluctantly decided to vote SNP 1 Alba 2.

    As for those who suggest that people who advocate this are Sturgeonites on the basis that the New SNP is unionist, the position is that the SNP may be devolutionist but they are still Nominally standing for Independence.

    I really don’t think that is difficult to understand.

  106. Andy Ellis says:

    @Mia 1.12 pm

    “At that point a nationalist party whose raison d’etre was to end the union had the absolute majority of the seats in HOlyrood and 95% of Scotland’s seats in Westminster. All this supported with over 50% of the vote for pro indy parties in GE2015. ”

    The % vote for the SNP in the 2015 Westminster GE was 49.97%. the Scottish Greens got 1.35%. You can argue that pro-independence parties gained the plurality of votes, but you can’t argue that they had a mandate for independence or UDI on the basis of that result, as they never stood on a plebiscitary mandate.

    If they HAD stood on such a plebiscitary mandate the international community may have accepted 51.32% as enough for recognition: after all they accepted 52% as enough for brexit.

  107. John McNab says:

    Al-Stuart at 12.35pm.

    Thanks, Al. That was hilarious!! Always a joy to read your incisively satirical take on the secessionists.

  108. PaulaJ says:

    Like most here BTL, I found the article honest and refreshing – for the most part.
    When the side you’re citicising are shutting down debate and claiming ‘hate speech’ for opinions, it’s not helpful to be firing from the hip yourself, unless you provide proof. The link about ‘openly-racist dossier’ was to an article in the National, which claimed that Gibson had questioned Bbutta’s association ‘with groups such as the Muslim Council of Britain and describes him as an Islamic fundamentalist.’
    I’m unconvinced that’s evidence of racism. The accusations are either true or false (and Gibson claims they’re verifiable on the internet). Given that some of the worst examples of Muslim fundamentalism have been carried out by white converts, the accusations can hardly be racist. It’s become one of those insults that are lazily bandied about – like ‘fascist’.
    It was also interesting to note that Bhutta is a cousin of the estimable Humza. Nothing like having chums with a pedigree, I suppose.
    It’s worth pointing out, too, that the National article quotes Gibson as claiming that he’s been traduced by the two accusers, so there’s a lot of ‘he said, she said’ involved.
    Other than that minor cavil, a good article.

  109. Willie says:

    Why would anyone vot3 for Nicola Sturgeon.

    The wee woman was on Sky this morning giving out her tizzy tiz that she wont work with Alex Salmond. Oh really little wee woman. Yes I’ve concerns about his behaviour. I won’t go into the same room, platform, Parliament as him she hissy fits.

    Can you imagine a Hillsry Clinton, or a Jacinda Ahern saying something like this. Boy oh boy our Nicola’s a real international statewoman.

    Oh what a tizzy she is. Tizzy, tIzzy tizzy, and you know what, she doesn’t even know what Alba stands for despite its candidates comprising well known, very experienced SNP MPs, councillors, party executive members and academics.

    In fact Sir Harry Burns ex chief medical officer for Scotland and current British Medical Association President wrote the Alba public health policy. Obviously doesn’t know him either, tizzy, tizzy, tizzy.

    She’s a wee liar. Just a wee liar.

  110. Ian Mac says:

    In the now delusional mind of Lady Sturgeon we are already independent and she is our sovereign. Apart from the ritual sideswipes at the Tories, there is virtually nothing in the SNP manifesto which acknowledges that Holyrood is a branch office of Westminster. Nothing to admit that that a large proportion of initiatives are either WM ones clothed in SNP colours, or small adjustments to them.

    They pretend that all that is good is down to them, while glossing over their poor record with Covid, and the colossal wastes of money in political vendettas and the cronyism which is apparently appalling in WM, but fine in Holyrood. No mention is made of their record in education, health, land reform or business. Which is just as well, for them.

    They are deep fakes, promising the earth in their manifesto, much of which will be forgotten after the election, and many schemes unfunded and unexplained. Just more feelgood hollow claims and promises, a PR manifesto with little political or economic reality in it.

    Devolution has produced a middle class dependent on the state for a very comfortable existence, who have no real motive for the hard work needed for a realistic independence movement. It has allowed them to pose as the people’s champions, who want independence, while concealing their ruthless treatment of opponents or challengers, and the corruption of their party into a fan club with no say in anything. A tiny clique of people with great power who have compromised the legal system as well as parliamentary system. But the results of which have worked very much in their favour, and nobody else’s, least of all the poor chumps who will vote for them.

  111. John McNab says:

    Kapellmeister at 12.36 pm

    “ The council elections a year from now should be an interesting scenario. Alba by then should be stronger and able to take many seats away from the SNP, thus undermining the Sturgeon cabal.”

    Why would this be? ALBA, should they field candidates for local authority elections, would be equally as irrelevant and pointless in that arena as the SNP are already. Neither can achieve their professed secessionist aim through the vehicle of local authorities, so all they would be doing is perpetuating the blocking of more worthwhile community representation.

  112. Linny says:

    “Eyes on the Prize” is a distraction. It is aimed at individual voters, and means “Don’t look at what is happening” which in turn asks voters not to look at dodgy policy, suspect finance or increasingly unpleasant personalities. “Ignore all the shit going on, pretend all is well and that you are happy with what we are doing, and one day, eventually you (note not we) may get what you want!”

  113. Cadogan Enright says:

    @ 1.23 Aquarius

    sane people are taking back Wings – well said

  114. David Caledonia says:

    When I discovered that Tony Blair in cahoots with Donald Dewar had redrawn the North Sea in 1999 and slipped it in while everybody’s eyes where on the opening of the new scottish parliament I thought I had seen it all.
    But all the stuff I have learned from this site especially, surpasses that little bit of skullduggery by a mile.
    I will vote tactically, If I can give my vote to that tit Stuart McMillan and my main vote to Chris McLeney then anyone can do the same, McMillan is a waste of space down here in the Greenock area as everyone here Knows, but he will be gotten rid of eventually, and I don’t expect to wait 5 years to see it happen.
    There are a few political careers that will end soon, and McMillan will be lucky to get a job moving trolleys about in my local supermarket.
    I have a young friend who was in school with McMillan, he said even in school he was an absolute bum hole

    Alba forever

  115. robbo says:

    So where is Ms Sturgeon’s polling indications that the GRA and HCB bills are going to persuade soft No’s to Yes ?

    Add the drug deaths issue still getting worse, add the ferry’s fiasco, add getting attacked constantly on education- rightly or wrongly.

    No, her idea is to constantly smear the man found innocent of any crimes and says she will not work with him to further the cause for independence .

    I’ve met a few vindictive women in my time(lol) but none as vindictive as her_ none..

  116. Cadogan Enright says:

    must be a shift change going on . . . I ‘ll go cook dinner for the kids.

    Don’t often get spare time on Wings these days. All very interesting

  117. Ruby says:

    Two black eyes!

    Lack of sleep or a lover’s tiff?

  118. John Martini says:


    Take a guess at snp bad, the murrells are worse than Fred And Rose West. Vote snp anyway.

  119. Jontoscots20 says:

    Great piece Malcolm. I particularly liked the piece about the SNP becoming so Blairite we could invade Iraq and your reference to the ILP. Let’s call them Caledonian conservatives, preserving their privileges behind a smokescreen of wokeness and welfare giveaways paid for by Westminster borrowing. He other strategy is to keep us under control with Covid scares,despite the fact that there i no meaningful threat.

    These policies require no challenge or efforts at all. SNP in the constituency and Alba on the list despite what some of the roasters are saying on here is the best way to keep their eyes on independenc ,a prize they don’t want.

  120. Andy Ellis says:

    @James Che 1.17 pm

    I think your take on this is wrong. I’m a founder member of Alba and former SNP member. I will never under any circumstances vote for a British nationalist party, nor will I now ever vote SNP or Scottish Greens: I don’t care how nicely Alex Salmond asks me, I just won’t do it. They don’t deserve my vote. If others are prepared to hold their noses and vote SNP or Green, fair enough but they don’t get to lecture me or anyone else that we are harming the cause. Whether folks scunnered with the SNP abstain, vote against them or reluctantly lend them their vote is a matter for their own conscience.

    None of the “just do it, haud yer nose and vote SNP 1 this final time” brigade have ever explained or justified why their plan is objectively better than the alternative. It’s pretty obvious that the danger of the SNP 1 / Alba 2 approach is an SNP or SNP/Green outright majority where Alba MSPs have no leverage for the next Holyrood session. This would allow them to sit on their arses for the next 5 years just as they have for the past 6, with the added disincentive of the full throated pursuit of GRA reform and adoption of the HCB. Thanks, but no thanks.

    The *possible* alternative – which it seems to me most real Alba supporters OUGHT to be aiming for – is to at least try to ensure the SNP or SNP/Greens fall short of an outright majority but have to depend on the support of Alba MSPs. I accept that the electoral system, the arithmetic of doing it and “events” make it difficult to engineer such an outcome. However I’d prefer to see a few less Alba MSPs even if it that was the outcome of not voting SNP 1 just for the joy of surgically removing a few SNP seats.

    Defeating Sturgeon, Roberston, Swinney, Yousaf or McKelvie…I’m sure others are worthwile targets too….would be more than worth it.

  121. John Martini says:


    Looks more like she is an alky. Classic swollen face and puffy eyes. That and the menopause should take dispatch her quicker than alba.

  122. Arch Stanton says:

    Having succeeded in listening to a part of the Ridge/Sturgeon interview, I note that Sturgeon yet again refers to a five year Parliamentary term ending in 2026. Although I have asked this question here before, I feel the need to ask yet again if there is some tacit agreement that the four year Scottish Parliamentary term has been extended automatically and unconstitutionally to five years?

  123. Dorothy Devine says:

    Cadogan , I am far too old not to understand the voting system to which the UK clings.

    I even understand the convoluted system put in place to attempt to prevent the SNP winning outright.

    I understand it enough to accept the advice of the former FM.

    I also understand the need for an ‘X’ as opposed to a 1 or a 2.

    Ruby , I am kind of hoping that someone will tell truths and the deil tak the hinmost.

  124. Arch Stanton says:

    Andy Ellis 1.42 pm

    Good afternoon Andy,

    Just to be clear, are you suggesting that nationalist voters should vote for no one in the constituency vote and for Alba on the list?

  125. David Caledonia says:

    I meet so many young people that have a vote but say they will not be voting cause its pointless, I have explained why they should vote for McMillan and vote for Chris McLeney.
    They are all going to do that I hope, but unless I am there with them as they put their crosses down I cannot be sure if they will even bother with voting.
    But if I get a few it could make a big difference to Chris, at least I will have done something to aid the cause of Alba and chris.

    Alba forever

  126. Ann Jamieson says:

    Thanks Wings and Malcolm Kerr. Your writing describes the thinkng of so many of us now resigned SNP activists. We are where we are and we must find a way of moving forward.
    Alba stirs things up deserving of substantial voting. In Edinburgh Central, an exemplar of SNP Leadership duplicity and brazen banditry, Bonnie Prince Bob has found a space to connect with our working class citizenry. Bravo BPB.
    So as Aretha Frankln might have advised now “We gotta think”.
    Wouldn’t do any harm to have a good look at “Eyes on the Prize” a collection of 14 programmes documenting “An American Experience” of the Civil Rights Movement from 1954-1983. A brilliant, raw archive of what went on produced by activists who took part.
    We have a lot to learn. We learn by doing not hedging our bets.

  127. Republicofscotland says:

    This is what the SNP should’ve done under Sturgeons tenure but they didn’t, Alex Salmond says that a Scottish currency must be set up as soon as possible after Scottish independence.

    The ALBA party is breath of fresh air compared to the stale SNP.

  128. Arch Stanton says:


    Did Mr Salmond say what this currency would be, how it would be established in the markets, who would act as a lender of last resort and provide the reserves to prevent an immediate run on this new and unknown currency?

    Did he happen to mention what it might be worth?

  129. David Caledonia says:

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… I am voting SNP and I detest them more than Pineapples, and my father made me eat them once as a boy as he thought I was just being contrary, I took a little bit of Pineapple and hated it, but I never had to do it again as that satisfied him, and I had the pleasure of never eating the horrible tasting things ever again

  130. Anna says:

    Great article

    . I have come to the conclusion the Murrels have reached their limitations.

    Salmond, in contrast, has decades of knowledge and political experience and his intellect envied by politicians from all Parties ,

  131. Republicofscotland says:

    Arch Stanton.

    I didn’t post the link because its behind a paywall, but you can read few sentences for free.

  132. Dan says:

    @ Andy Ellis at 1:42 pm

    It is undoubtedly a difficult decision on how we cast our votes. Many factors in play including, location, emotional, moral, and practical aspects.
    There are pluses and minuses on how we as individuals, the Parties, the collective that is the Indy movement, and importantly how others will use the result for their own ends.

    I was pondering a situation where a current constituency MSP fails to hold that seat, but it allows a ranked 1 roaster from the Regional List to get in instead.
    Such a situation might be very useful as it would put said roaster in the spotlight for all to see.
    There could be a two fold benefit in that it in the short term it may motivate some decent SNP reps to defect to distance themselves from the idiocy, and in the longer term steer previous supporters who actually blindly voted the roaster in, to realise their error and migrate their allegiance and support elsewhere for future elections.

  133. Liz says:

    Lots of great comments BL.

    I ignore Folk who slag off the messenger.
    Disagree if you will but when you resort to insults, you’ve lost all credibility.

    Neale Hanvey on twitter said he blocked Blackman even when he was in the SNP, she is that annoying. HAHA

    Re NSs appearance, not commenting on looks as to me it appears more like stress.
    Maybe internal polling is not good.

    Compare to Alex, who I thought looked the best he’s been in a long while, when interviewed by Bolton.

    NS has been very disloyal to members, but now she suddenly needs us.
    It is no coincidence, IMO, that MPs are helping with leaflet drops, the wokes are too spoiled to get our there and graft.

  134. Ian Mac says:

    ‘Eyes on the prize’ = avert your eyes from what we are doing, and have done. The prize is a mythical reward at the end of the rainbow.

  135. Paul says:

    The elephant in the room is convincing no voters to yes. That’s what I’ll continue to do.

  136. David Caledonia says:

    What currency would scotland use some people ask, it would be a scottish currency.
    Scotland can set up its own bank.
    In the philippines I have a choice of so many banks my head spins with it all, and every one of them use the peso, what is the peso, well mexico uses the peso and they certainly are not liable for the peso as used by the Philippines.
    Currencies are not complicated things to understand, they fluctuate all the time, the UK pound goes up and down like my neighbour’s venetian blinds, but she is just a nosey git not a currency lol

  137. Arch Stanton says:

    Thanks Republic,

    It appears that he is saying such a currency would not be established on “day one” of independence, which still leaves me wondering what the plan is for “day one” and whether it still involves requesting the dubious right to cede control of our entire monetary policy to a foreign entity, that is the only notionally independent of government Bank of England?

  138. Lulu Bells says:

    ‘We have to start behaving as if we are intending to become independent.’

    This is the difference between ALBA and the SNP.

  139. Ian Mac says:

    One of the (many) things the SNP gets away with is the change in its overall political and economic policies. Because their cover story is based on grievance with the Tories, along with the independence carrot, and lately the leadership cult, they have fashioned a nice tartan blanket to cover their move to the right.

    Because their appeal is supposedly independence over general political direction, and thus to all Scots, they have managed to avoid answering nearly all questions about their political and economic competence, as well as their beliefs. Which, when you examine their record, you may well conclude, is exceedingly convenient. No hard questions to answer, just float along on the Sturgeon the head girl of the nation hoopla.

    It is a neat conjuring trick, where all the failures of policy are consigned to the memory hole, while new visions of cake and ale can be promised on a regular basis. What is masks is the shift from the generally left of centre social democratic position under Salmond, one which chimes with most Scots, to a neoliberal right of centre stance which allies with big business and landowners, cronyism and favouritism of the type deplored at WM.

    Extraordinary that no-one picks up on it, and that they can bury their shift rightwards under swathes of PR on bagpipes and shortbread for all. Their success is largely down to a refusal to come clean with the electorate, while carefully avoiding the common currency of politics with which all the other parties are saddled. Does anyone have a clue what Nikla thinks about these serious issues? No, of course not. That is the whole, very convenient idea.

  140. robbo says:

    Why do folk get so worked up about currency?

    We can use any dammed currency we want on day one. Call it “smackaroonies” if we want. If the southerner’s don’t whant to take them when you’re on holiday in Blackpool or wherever , fine. They have a dual purpose_ smack them aroon the coupon and steal the cone!

  141. Arch Stanton says:

    David Caledonia,

    You suggest that setting up a currency and central bank is a simple and straightforward operation, so why do you think it is so difficult to get the de facto political leaders to say what their preferred policy would be and how this would work?

  142. Alan McHarg says:

    Six years of attacking and undermining the Yes movement, the neutering of the SNP membership, ignoring the cause of independence and all the actions/rhetoric with regards to Alex Salmond, Alba and a Supermajority is the strategy of a unionist happy to maintain the status quo. Devolution is a construct of unionism and to settle for it makes you a unionist. Just saying you want independence and promising it doesn’t make it so if your actions and deeds don’t fulfill that promise. The refusal to advocate a Supermajority of independence supporting MSP’s within Holyrood smacks of the status quo and the status quo is the union. They would also have to commit the missing £600,000 if they were to follow Alba’s strategy and we know that they cannot do that. If you acknowledge to yourself that Ms. Sturgeon is a unionist everything else makes sense. Just a thought. That said, and not to give Ms. Sturgeon and the union what they want ie that slight majority and the illusion of wanting independence whilst allowing Westminster to rule. Lets follow the Alba strategy and vote for a Supermajority and actually achieve independence. The status quo is unionism.

  143. Astonished says:

    Prasad – Thanks for that.

    I agree Nicola is looking very, very tired. And I haven’t seen anything from murrell for quite some time.

    I surmise that Alba are doing much better in polling. SNP funds are not holding up, SNP membership is rapidly declining, MSP candidates are voicing concerns that the leaflet footsloggers are just not there anymore and the wokeratti are worried as women just wont wheesht.

    And our imperial masters must be thinking that Alba is not getting derailed ; therefore they must attack the SNP to try to dent their constituency vote.

    And to do that they may have to detonate the genderwoowoo bomb.

    Let’s see how imperial master’s tv starts to change the narrative.

  144. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Republicofscotland.

    Your National story is at

    “Alex Salmond says independent Scotland must have its own currency”

  145. Saffron Robe says:

    Very well said Malcolm. You are quite right, only from a bird’s eye perspective can we stand outside of ourselves and see things clearly and objectively.

    I am not sure, however, that there is a cure for the malaise affecting the SNP hierarchy except excision.

    I think Alex Salmond is advocating voting for the SNP in the constituency vote because he has invested so much time and energy in the party he doesn’t want to believe that Nicola Sturgeon is all bad. Unfortunately all the evidence points to the contrary.

  146. Colin Alexander says:

    “It is taken for granted in the independence movement that “The people of Scotland are sovereign.” If our form of government is to be different from the one that has dominated us for over 300 years, then that statement has to be detached from rhetoric and made a legal construct”.

    It’s a waste of time trying to fight an SNP civil war and arguing the toss with the “I love Nicola” people. Been there, done that. I’ve moved on, so should youse.

    Put your energies into positive things: supporting the Alba Party, for example.

  147. Arch Stanton says:

    A week or two ago, it appeared that the SNP were set for a substantial majority, but an apparently unnecessary flurry of free handouts and headline announcements – free breakfasts, free lunches, free school uniforms, free laptops, free school trips, free money, new hospitals(which won’t make people sick this time) suggests, to me anyway, that the SNP are worried about something.

    Darned if I know what though?

  148. John Martini says:

    She looks like blair in his final days

    Alba starting to look like corbyn.

  149. Breeks says:

    Willie says:
    18 April, 2021 at 1:27 pm
    Why would anyone vot3 for Nicola Sturgeon.

    If the polls are remotely accurate, she will win next month, maybe even with an outright majority

    So if she wins, would you rather see her being challenged in Holyrood by the same old toothless Unionists or by Alex Salmond and ALBA MSP’s?

    Sturgeon will get what’s coming to her, but for this particular Election, it is a much higher priority, and much more important getting ALBA’s presence established and mobilising the YES community to reignite the demand for Independence.

    It’s a symbiosis. If you vote to hurt the SNP, the SNP will lose Constituency seats – to Unionists. Once the SNP starts losing Constituency seats, the deHonte system will recognise the SNP is less dominant, thus making it more likely the SNP becomes more eligible to win more List seats. For ALBA’s benefit, we don’t want ALBA and the SNP competing for the same List Seats. That’s the symbiosis. That’s the formula that wins big.

    If you want a strong ALBA party, it means putting SNP in the Constituency and ALBA in the List.

    Don’t listen to the trolls harping on about hypocrisy or voting to endorse perverts or any other such talk. The optimum result is for the SNP getting a clear run to win Constituency seats from Unionists, and for ALBA to be getting a clear run to take List seats for Unionists, and those battles will ONLY be clean fights between ALBA / SNP and Unionists, (no blue on blue attacks), IF the SNP has conquered well in the Constituency vote.

    Sturgeon’s tenure is living on borrowed time. There’s the missing money and Leslie Evans going to Court which will make life difficult for Sturgeon, and if ALBA does extraordinarily well, Sturgeon could be facing Alex Salmond at FMQ’s every week. You really think Sturgeon’s ego could cope with that?

    Do not look upon May’s vote as a reprieve for Sturgeon and her corrupt and creepy SNP. Instead, look upon May as vital for getting ALBA into Holyrood, and in strength, so Sturgeon’s hubris comes face to face with her nemesis.

    If we can do it, and do it well, we can secure that all important Supermajority. Have you noticed? That is what the Trolls are attacking. A supermajority is only bad news for Unionists.

    Even the people who can’t bring themselves to excuse Sturgeon and vote SNP1 do not condemn the principle of a supermajority, they just think the sacrifice needed to achieve it is too great. Those are the people who need to be persuaded to put SNP1 and ALBA2 on their ballot.

    Sabotaging the chances of a Supermajority is the Unionist’s game. Keep that in mind when you’re scrolling past the Trolls.

    I utterly loathe Sturgeon and her crooked SNP. Anybody who’s read my comments these last few years knows that beyond any conceivable doubt. I can, and will, vote SNP1.

    Alex Salmond was nearly sent to jail branded a sex offender on trumped up charges by an SNP Conspiracy. Alex Salmond, Leader of ALBA, will be voting SNP1.

    If I can do it, if he can do it, then you can do it. SNP1 ALBA2.

    So you’ll spoil your ballot to make a point on the day? OK, I get it. Why not make a bigger point, a point that sticks around long after polling day, and do what it takes to install an SNP / ALBA Supermajority that cuts down Westminster rule at the knee? Won’t that make you feel better than spoiling your ballot?

    Remember the talk way back in 2014 / 2015 about whether YES should evolve into a List Party? Tell me you remember that. Well heads up people. YES has become a List Party, it’s called ALBA, it’s led by Alex Salmond, and it’s standing for List Seats in May.

  150. Arch Stanton says:

    Can I just say that any country with an independent currency and central bank requires substantial foreign exchange reserves, in order to trade them as and when the situation demands. Nothing is ever clear when it comes to the question of a currency of an independent Scotland, but this is worth bearing in mind for those who believe it is a simple process.

    It would be nice to get it settled though, so that we can move on to issues like borders, trade, debt repayment, deficit reduction, immigration, state apparatus, EU membership and the like..

  151. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Thank you for that Sir a good read. I wonder how many more in the SNP would agree with you.

    Sadly I accept that there will be no independence in my lifetime we will have to wait until Alba or some other party appears to take up the fight, that will take many years.

    You mention the Dothraki Wedding in your article, I was at such a wedding several years ago in a town called Shotts, glass of Buckfast anyone.

  152. MaggieC says:

    Dr Kerr , Thank you for this article.

    It sums up exactly how so many of us feel at the moment regarding the way the Snp are as a party right now . It’s time for Mr & Mrs Murrell and others within their clique to go and make way for others eg J Cherry , A B MacNeill etc to take leadership and control of the party and fight for Scotland’s Independence which it’s not been doing since Mrs Murrell became leader .

  153. Claire says:

    For Breeks says
    For Willie says

    Brilliant ????

    SNP1+ ALBA2

  154. Claire says:

    Ignore the questions marks on my last post

  155. David R says:

    The politicians and people of 1922 are not the same as those of 2021. Identity politics is the be all and end all of our chattering classes with their systemic racism, misogyny, toxic masculinity and the evil machinations of the patriarchy. We are now governed by the professional politician that only care about their own wealth and power and voters who can be swayed by the colour of the rosette and trends on social media.

  156. Dan Hardy says:

    The ‘Brits’. Seriously. Indy can take a hike if I have to get subjected to anymore of this Republican-esque BS.
    WE, are Brits. We entered a Union forming Great Britain, lest 300 years of history passes anyone by.
    What next? Instead of “Up the RA” we” be hearing “up the (Al) “BA”?

  157. WGW says:

    Malcolm Kerr’s top-class article describes what is axiomatic in all structures first enunciated by Lord Acton in the 1890s:


    To which can be added the more modern Peter Priciciple:

    “In an organisation, all tend to rise to their level of incompetence”.

    The SNP in both measures perhaps?

  158. Andrew F says:

    David Caledonia,

    Pineapples are delicious and healthy for you (full of vitamin C too).

    You’re supposed to eat the inside.

  159. Arch Stanton says:

    Dan Hardy,

    Well said Dan. Some of them actually believe Scotland is an English colony!

  160. Confused says:

    remember folks, trolls also win when they waste your time

    – their posts, often too many, of no substance, will “slide” good posts way upthread, where people will miss them

    new handle, lots of posting; reasonable at first, then arsey later on – diverting the discourse

    always asking questions that – have been answered many times, can be looked up, and when they get an answer, they go on to something else, or makeup bullshit hypotheticals

    – if the Isle of Wight goes independent after the breakup of the UK, getting rich by charging transit fees for Le Manche, how will the MOD be able to afford to fulfill its naval responsibilties … checkmate, little englander

  161. John Martini says:

    ‘Ideologically, Corbynism was a break from New Labour centrism but sociologically, it was more Blairite than Tony Blair. As the Labour MP Jon Cruddas has argued, the Corbyn revolution in the Labour party has narrowed its social base even further, making it the party of young, middle-class southerners, popular in London and some prosperous university towns.’

    Sounds like wokeus deus SNP.

  162. Mia says:

    “you can’t argue that they had a mandate for independence or UDI on the basis of that result”

    We will have to agree to disagree. Personally I believe they had a mandate for independence and they still have it to this day, because:

    1. The SNP has the pursuing of independence in its constitution. That is the reason d’etre of the party, not GRA, hate bills or TV Covid updates.

    2. This is a parliamentary democracy. This means your mandate in parliament does not come from a majority of the vote in the polls. It comes from a majority of the vote in Parliament. It comes from a majority of the seats. And that is the reason why labour and tories are desperate to maintain FPTP in England while trashing it everywhere else to avoid inconvenient absolute pro indy majorities in Scotland, Wales or NI. Incidentally, a supermajority of seats is what Mr Salmond is looking for, not a supermajority of the vote.

    The reason why I mentioned the percentage of the vote is because it shows clearly that the number of seats the SNP got were not by accident. They were supported by an astonishing increase in the pro independence vote in 2015 that surpassed the 45% yes vote only 8 months before, when if the vow con act had worked and the matter of independence had been put to rest, you would expect to see a decrease of the vote, not such an increase. For first time, the unionist vote was the minority. And that is considering that 16-18 year olds, among the most pro yes of the demographics, were not allowed to vote in the GE.

    It was clear that the vote was the consequence of the people of Scotland realising they had been conned and wanted out of the union. If we had Mr Salmond in power at the time, I am sure that 95% of the seats would have been put to good use instead of being wasted.

    Personally I do not recognise the concept of UDI when it is associated to Scotland. UDI, in my view, does not apply to Scotland. It applies to Wales and applies to any part of England or Scotland that wishes to separate individually from the UK, but not to Scotland as a whole. Why? Because the UK is not a unified country. Scotland is not like Catalonia. The UK is a bipartite political union. Scotland entered voluntarily into a union, it was not annexed like Catalonia was. Scotland is one of the signatories of this voluntary union and its original constitution, therefore the most it can do is to end that voluntary union so the constitutive parts revert to their former status: the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

    London can UDI. Scotland cannot. If Scotland “UDI’s” it terminates the political union and forces the Kingdom of England to UDI as well. If Catalonia UDIs, Spain does not cease to exist. If Scotland ends the union, the United Kingdom of Great Britain ceases to exist.

    “they never stood on a plebiscitary mandate”
    You can argue that if your raison d’etre is to end the union, you don’t need a plebiscitary mandate. A vote to that party is a vote for independence.

    “international community may have accepted 51.32% as enough for recognition”

    Margaret Thatcher and Major accepted a majority of SNP MPs as a mandate to end the union. It is my personal opinion that the union ended at all practical effects on 8th May 2015 and all what we have been watching ever since is smoke and mirrors. It is my opinion the UK has been artificially kept going ever since by the collusion of England’s government and Sturgeon’s government. In other words, the UK is now a dictatorship where Scotland is being kept in the uK against its will so England can continue profiting from its assets and have a free parking for its WMD.

    My gut tells me the reason Sturgeon bottled it in 2015 is because if the union had ended in 2015 England’s 1% would have never been able to pull off Brexit and would leave them having to face the “burden” of EU tax evasion and tax havens transparency laws. The ability of the elite to evade taxes is of course of much more importance for those in England and Scotland’s governments than abiding by international law and let the people of Scotland exercise their right to self determination.

    It is my opinion the UK is still currently being artificially maintained by denying us our right to self determination and by Sturgeon undermining our popular sovereignty with her embracing of English convention because England cannot survive on its own two feet out of the EU and without a trade deal with USA unless it keeps the umbilical cord that is feeding it from Scotland’s assets and revenues.

    The problem is history tells us that when England is offered a finger it tends to take the whole arm so I have no doubt that it will include Scotland’s assets in any trade deal as a way to get an advantage for itself, never mind how detrimental such action may be for Scotland.

    A real pro independence leader would have never allowed Scotland to be put in such situation. Scotland is not in the map to keep England afloat. Sadly, at the biggest point of need in our political history, we are stuck with a political fraud who could not waste any time in handing over to England our powers and the control of our assets, including things that have always been administered in Scotland even before devolution such as our water and Scotland’s NHS.

    Democracy does not even enter the equation. It never did. There is no democracy in the UK, neither parliamentary or any other type. What we have is smoke and mirrors. If democracy had ever been respected, the political union between Scotland and England would have ended in 2015.

    Proof that democracy does not exist in this artificially maintained uK is how Sturgeon brushed under the carpet our mandate to remain in the EU and how she flushed down the sewer our 2016 mandate to hold indyref.

    If we are not independent today is not because the SNP did not run on a mandate for independence. If we are not independent today is because Sturgeon’s SNP does not want to see Scotland as an independent state.

    A lack of mandate is not the problem. It is the symptom of the problem.

  163. Cadogan Enright says:

    well said Breeks

    – I was bemused by ‘Andy Ellis’ above saying he was a founder member of Alba and then proceeding to tell us NOT to vote the way Alex Salmond has asked.

    must be the new shift

  164. Bob W says:


    Whole article here-

  165. James Barr Gardner says:

    Two Parties,

    One to sweep the Tories out of the Constituency Seats,

    One to sweep the Tories out of the List Seats.

    One movement to bind them together, The YES MOVEMENT !

    Remember 2016 SNP’s 950K votes got 4 list seats !

    The Tories (Red&Blue) 950K votes GOT THEM 45 LIST SEATS !

    SNP 1 and ALBA 2 ???????

  166. Cadogan Enright says:

    ALSO Also Arch Stanton banging on about currency.

    1. If Scotland goes it alone on currency then it does not inherit the National Debt and thus would have a pretty unlimited capacity for borrowing to build up reserves like the RoI.

    2. If London ‘allows’ Scotland to use the pound (and the RoI used the pound without permission for 70 years) then the Scottish Government would have the same capacity as the rump-UK to borrow

    3. England has a huge trade deficit since the mid-1960’s and before, whereas Scotland has a huge trade surplus with the rest or the world since forever . See official trade statistics here

    BUT NOTE official UK trade statistics allocates most of Scottish Oil as an export from the London area as well as all Scottish Whiskey exports. Electricity and gas is treated as an export from the SE region of England. The reasons for this is what they describe as ‘technical reasons of company and VAT registration which I can explain in detail if you want

    I very much doubt that an independent Scotland would continue this practice. (:

    So, in summary an independent Scotland would have the problem of trying to keep their currency low as the Scottish economy is export-led unlike the English economy which is consumer consumption-led as England no longer exports.

  167. colin lees says:

    if you believe as i”m sure is the case, in the democratic process.then you have to carry the will of the majority in order for the ultimate goal to be achieved.since 2014 (the last referendum)the snp have done nothing to prepare for independance for scotland.the signs are, going forward,that that will remain the case. scotlands institutions are not working,the recent alex salmond enquiry has shown that anyone can consider voting snp is beyond me.they need a long time to ponder how they could allow things to go so wrong.(minus nicola sturgen,john swinney,peter murrell,angus robertson.)

  168. Arch Stanton says:

    Cadogan Enright,

    I only read the very first line of your very first paragraph and literally burst into laughter. I appreciate I might need to get out more but that is comedy gold. Default on a debt on day one and see how long you last??

  169. Arch Stanton says:

    Okay Cadogan,

    I moved on to para 2. Yes of course Scotland could borrow but would have interest rates and all other monetary matters dictated by the Bank of England, whether it suited Scotland’s economy or not, and EU membership would be impossible.

    Call that independence??

  170. Arch Stanton says:

    3. Cadogan this just gets better.

    Scotland relied on the UK for more than 60% of pur trade and you want to default on our share of debt?!?

  171. twathater says:

    @ Cadogan Enright 12.03pm
    You said
    Too many people on here effectively trying to stop ALBA from getting seats

    No Cadogan you are not interested in seats for ALBA you are only desperately pushing the SNP 1 and ALBA 2 vote because people are physically boaking at voting for the SNP and you have ALWAYS been a Nicla apologist ,even now you come on Stu’s website to push the narrative whilst snidely slagging him off because he still shows Sturgeon up for the corrupt amoral scum that she is

  172. STEVEN ELLIOTT says:

    Finally, someone else sees PM for the Brit he is.

    However, the person (PM) / people who convinced Salmond that the security in 2014 was acceptable (ZERO ID security and hence send in a 500K+ NO Postal votes) is/are the ("Tractor" - Ed)(s).

  173. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Arch Stanton

    its obvious you don’t understand they way sovereign currencies work. Or are only o here to troll as I suspect

    If the rump-Uk refused share the £ with Scotland – then under international law Scotland would have no liability for the debts that would fall exclusively to rump-UK

    And if Scotland used the £ anyway without permission the way Ireland did, they would not have any of the rump-UK debt either.

  174. Shocked says:


    I was trying to be nice, but if the gloves are off.. you are a paranoid rambling lunatic who would best be placed in some sort of institution. I’ve supported independence for over 25 years but I’ve never been that active because of lunatics like you, lunatics who incidentally cost us the first ref and here you are now promoting re-electing the corrupt criminals in the New SNP who have squandered the last 7 years.

    Now away and polish your bedside picture of Queen Nicola.

  175. Arch Stanton says:


    I have just explained to you why your options are extremely limited and what some of the consequences might be. In response, you make some wholly fatuous and absurd claim about walking away debt free, whilst having the temerity to refer to me as a troll?!

    I wish you the very best of luck but if that is the extent of your logic, you may as well give up now!

  176. Robbie Mochrie says:

    @Arch Stanton,
    I think that you’re right about needing to get out more.
    At independence, there will an agreement whether a share of rUK debt will become the initial Scottish national debt.
    Cadogan Enright appears to be adopting Richard Murphy’s arguments, in which it’s possible that Scotland might accept liability to continue paying interest on a small part of the existing debt, but that would be to ease negotiations.
    The legal point is similar. The debt was issued by the UK. The rUK state will be the continuing state. There is nothing in any debt issue which says that in the event of the dissolution of the Union, Scotland is liable for a share of the debt.

  177. Cadogan Enright says:

    @twathater – SO you agree with ‘Andy Ellis’ then surprise surprise

    so we are all to ignore the voting direction advised by Alex Salmond ??

    that makes sense for people interested in Scottish independence then??

    I don’t think so

    another troll

  178. Effigy says:

    If you recall Bojo told the EU that unless he got a deal he wouldn’t be
    Paying the agreed £39 Billion Divorce Bill.

    If Scotland used Bojo’s own words back to him could it be construed
    to be outrageous.

    As England control all our assets we would need to play ball and negotiate.

    We are always informed that we are supposed equal partners so I’d let them buy
    Our share of all the foreign embassies, dependencies like the Falklands, Gibraltar, Chagos islands
    Our Crown Estates, Crown Jewell’s and Gold Reserves, Nuclear weapons, Naval Ships and Bases,
    Army and Airforce Equipment such as Aircraft Carriers.

    Should we take back 10% of the billions Westminster bribed the DUP with in their other Colony?
    10% of Crossrail, HS2, of England’s Nuclear Power Plant etc?

    We also take our stolen Maritime Waters back

  179. Dan Hardy says:

    “Finally, someone else sees PM for the Brit he is”

    Brit: Noun & Adjective – a British person.
    British: Plural noun – people coming from Great Britain.
    Great Britain – Created when the Kingdom of Scotland merged with the Kingdom of England under the Acts of Union 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain.

  180. Andy Ellis says:

    @Arch Stanton 1.42 pm

    I’m suggesting people should vote with their conscience. I live in Edinburgh Central and wouldn’t be able to bring myself to vote for Angus Robertson for example. I plan to vote for Bonnie Prince Bob because I also couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory and they’re the most likely ones to beat Robertson (particularly as the Greens have insisted on standing a candidate again as they did in the last election).

    In other constituencies I’d probably either spoil my constituency ballot or simply not use it, though I can understand why many will follow Alba’s advice and vote SNP 1: for me it would depend on the candidate’s views.

  181. ScotsRenewables says:

    Why is “arch Staunton” being allowed to waste all these electrons?

  182. Republicofscotland says:

    Bob W. @3.40pm.

    Thanks Bob.

  183. Republicofscotland says:

    Brian @2.51pm.

    Thanks to you as well Brian.

  184. Liz says:

    Scot goes pop suggesting SNP 1, Alba 2 may not help Alba gain seats in some circumstances but will ensure SNP get in on the constituency.

    That is why those saying you must vote SNP 1 to increase Alba’s chances may not necessarily be correct.

    As I’ve said, I will vote with my conscience, others will make up their own minds.

    I could include the link but as a courtesy to the Rev, I won’t.
    People, who want, can check it out on his blog.

  185. Andy Ellis says:

    @Cadogan Enright 4.11 pm

    I’m not sure why my name deserves quote marks. Unlike many on here and elsewhere I post using my real name. I’ve been posting here for yonks: my views are hardly a secret.

    Calling everyone who disagrees with you a troll is pretty lame, as is insisting we must all be slavishly loyal to the party line: it sounds no better when it’s the Alba party line than when it’s the SNP party line. Alex can suggest whatever he likes: nobody directs me how to vote. Anyone who accepts such direction is no democrat.

  186. Brent Crude at $67 per barrel from $22 at the start of lockdown last year,

    that`s $67,000,000 of our resources every day going dan saff to modernise the infrastructure of England,

    bigest theft in the history of civilisation.

  187. Republicofscotland says:

    I thought the article of which Bob and Brian kindly provided links to was quite refreshing. The SNP aren’t talking about Scotland having its own currency anytime soon, and they’re meant to be the main party for Scottish independence.

    ALBA has some important ideas such as a written constitution for Scotland and of course a currency.

  188. griff says:

    very sadly for Scotland you are between a rock and a hard place.
    Any vote for the current SNP is a vote for the status quo –
    poor management, an internal party structure lacking in transparency or competency and a paucity in policies that would shame any government – and no significant movement towards independence or self rule in any guise.
    To achieve long term gain may mean short term pain in order to move forward and overcome the current level of stagnation and ineptitude pervading Holyrood

  189. Andy Ellis says:

    @Mia 3.28 pm

    Principled disagreement is fine. I see next to zero prospect of the international community recognising any declaration of independence which isn’t clearly in response to the people being asked for a mandate. No mandate for independence was requested in the 2015 Westminster GE, because the devolutionary Holyrood parliament was (and remains) wedded to the referendum process à la 2012-14.

    As to your points:

    1. That’s irrelevant to the issue at hand. Achieving independence requires a clear and unequivocal response to a mandate the international community accepts – especially if the UK attempts to contest the result of a change from a referendum to a plebiscitary election route.

    2. Wrong. The international community will never accept independence claims from an entity like Scotland (or Catalonia or Quebec of anywhere else…) which is not clearly backed by more than 50% of the popular vote, gained in response to a clear request or mandate for independence. Thus they wouldn’t have accepted the 2015 result even tho’ we had 56 of 59 MP’s. This really isn’t rocket science, and you and others “raging against the machine” and insisting it’ll be fine going down this route are simply deluded: it just makes you look like the kind of tin-foil hat wearing zoomers that the britnats and Scottish yoons keep banging on about.
    Please just stop it!

    The rest of your (as usual) over-long post is just a rehash of what you said earlier , and no more convincing for the super-abundance of words. Prolixity doesn’t make what passes for your case any more convincing, it actually shows it up for the unreasoned “I feel it in my waters so it must be true” bollocks it is.

    Please, please find a decent editor. Less is more. I hope to be hearing you much more.

  190. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    What @Breeks says at 3:03 pm

    Top drawer as ever, Sir!

    SNP = Constituency

    ALBA = Regional

    Max The Yes.

    Build ALBA to ultimately replace the SNP at future elections.

    Build ALBA to make Sturgeon face Salmond weekly!

    But most importantly of all Build ALBA to take Independence back from those who did fuck all with multiple mandates since 2016.

  191. Robert Graham says:

    I can’t believe people are still arguing about currency and debt

    The bank of England assumed all UK debt ,that’s Scotland England Wales and Northern Ireland all British debt is owned by the Bank of England.

    Scotland is not in debt, has never been in debt ,can’t be in debt under the present constitutional settlement , because we don’t have a Central bank and therefore can’t issue currency if we can’t issue our own currency it can’t be underwritten by the central bank,because we don’t have one .

    Scotland is under no obligation for the debt incurred by the Bank of England the central bank , this of course could be settled by negotiations , we own around one tenth 10% of U.K. Assets under a negotiated settlement we would probably be under a moral obligation, not a legal obligation to accept that we therefore would also assume our 10% of the debt if it can be shown as been incurred on our behalf , i.e. We benefited from the borrowing .

    Of course any government intent in Independence would have Plans in place for the negotiations that would need to take place.

    What has this SNP done to prepare for this ANSWER FUCK ALL and that’s putting it in the politest possible terms , they haven’t prepared because they don’t intend following through with their promise to the Scottish people that the whole point of the SNP is a Independent Scotland,

    We were Lied to that’s why ALBA exists to get the fkrs back on Coarse if that’s possible .

  192. Fishy Wullie says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    Dan Hardy,

    Well said Dan. Some of them actually believe Scotland is an English colony!


    What would you call it Arch ?

  193. Doug says:

    Very interesting post from Dr Kerr. The SNP leadership needs a kick up the backside, sharpish.

    It’s independence, stupid!

    SNP/Alba in the NE for me.

    Remember the old ALBA car stickers? You can still buy them I’m told.

  194. Socrates MacSporran says:

    If I was a HghHeid Yin in the SNP, looking at what we should do after the Holyrood Election – I would be putting forward the notion that, provided he gets elected on the North East List, it might be a good idea to nominate Alex Salmond as Presiding Officer.

    It recognises the authority Eck would hold in the new parliament, but, more-importantly, it would prevent him from forensic questioning of the Sainted Nicola at FMQs every week.

  195. Stu says:

    Some possible phrases currently needed:-

    Fuck off Murrells
    Where’s the money?
    What about Indy?

  196. Rogueslr says:

    Post independence what voting system would be used? First past the Post, d’Hondt or another type of proportional representation?

    Just curious, not a loaded question.

  197. Al-Stuart says:

    Andy Ellis at 1.42pm.

    I empathise with your dilemma 100%.

    Here in this constituency, we have a greasy, slimed, pole climbing constituency SNP MSP whom very few at the SNP branch liked when I was a member. His unpleasant arrogance has turned off that many voters he has made this once solid SNP constituency a marginal ?.

    It will take VERY little to get this Constituency MSP out of office. It adds a 3D game of chess complexity to the whole election here.

    As for the List vote, EVERY SINGLE ONE IS A UNIONIST.

    I am sorely tempted to spoil my first vote rather than cast it for thieving, lying Woke-captured Pension-grabbing Sturgeonite sychophants.

    Andy, it sounds like you have got it figured out.

    SNP 0 vote
    Alba 2

    When you clear out all of the panicky 77ers from these BTL threads, you have some genuinely honest dilemmas that each and every one of us face.

    That can be multiplied by 10 if we all talk to family and friends about this.

    Given Stuart’s website stats of 1,000,000 site visits each month, that might turn ALBA from 6% to 9%, maybe even 12%. How many Alba MSPs would that secure 🙂

    My gut says that I trust Alex Salmond.

    If, after all that duplicitous Machievallian harridan holed up in Bute House with the Beard Penfold Murrell, Alex Salmond can hold the peace and advocate voting SNP1 then part of me thinks Alex has a point.

    Sturgeon will go. All these political dregs eventually get booted out of office. There are definitely still some decent folk in the SNP. Many of whom have not read the forensic work out in by the likes of Stuart Campbell.

    It may very well end up being a decision taken a split second as that wee pen hovers over the ballot paper on 6th May 2021.

    Whatever else, Alex Salmond, Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray, Iain Lawson, Barrhead Boy and yon decent Scottish guy in Dublin have helped make this election a place where we have HOPE.

    BY that I mean we have something to win. Not the pathetic beige slogans Nicola adorns herself with whilst being Queen Covid on the Coronavirus TV Channel.

    Cheers Andy and stay well.

    P.S. A thanks to the kindness shown by genuine Wingers upthread 🙂

  198. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dan Hardy at 4:23 pm.

    You claimed,
    “Brit: Noun & Adjective – a British person.
    British: Plural noun – people coming from Great Britain.
    Great Britain – Created when the Kingdom of Scotland merged with the Kingdom of England under the Acts of Union 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain.”

    Maybe you WISH the above to be factual, but it’s a tad economical with the truth.

    Brit |br?t|

    informal noun
    a British person.


    British |?br?t??|
    1 relating to Great Britain or the United Kingdom, or to its people or language.
    2 of the British Commonwealth or (formerly) the British Empire.

    noun (as plural noun the British)
    the British people.

    Great Britain
    Great Britain is an island in the North Atlantic Ocean off the northwest coast of continental Europe. With an area of 209,331 km2 (80,823 sq mi), it is the largest of the British Isles, the largest European island, and the ninth-largest island in the world.

    1/3 Must try harder!

  199. twathater says:

    @ Andy Ellis as a fellow troll as Cadogan has decreed us to be obviously to render any opinion we may have as worthless , I would like to note that Cadogan never denied or refuted my claim that his insistence of the SNP 1 and ALBA 2 was a diversion to ensure his beloved nicla was reelected it has nothing to do with sense or what AS advises

    Cadogan used to be a frequent attendee on WOS but when Stuart started exposing Sturgeon’s corruption and malfeasance Cadogan obviously took umbrage at Stuart’s exposures and distanced himself possibly to WGD where his thoughts are more in alignment , but still he likes to visit and give Stuart his valuable councillor experience and point out where Stuart is going wrong

  200. Lochside says:

    We must be seriously worrying the brass hats at H.Q. Dennison barracks. It’s now all ‘shock and awe’ from the ‘troops’ ( are they on double time?)..from new despicable levels of sectarian verbiage( if you are bluenoses why are you not watching your team right now?), anti-islamic slurs; the joke literary ‘toff’s pointless ejaculations; all the way up to the usual ‘International relations’ expert’s claiming that the 2015 result of 56 x seats and a nationalist popular support of 51.3% for two parties, SNP and Greens both with avowed constitutions for Scottish Independence was an inadequate ‘result’ for the basis for demanding dissolution of the Union!…..

    Long term readers of this site will recognise these same arguments by the WGD deserters and SNP loyalists such as ‘Dr Jim’ who attacked me and others for positing what had been the long held universally accepted basis for Independence by the SNP…interesting how he appears to agree with the ‘glacialists’?.

    Unfortunately, the SNP must have agreed with him..they have kept on demanding more mandates aimed at the same outcome..more seats..but at the same time a total compliance with total refusal to assert the logical demand for Dissolution!

    Apparently according to Max Headroom, a plebiscitary pledge based election by Holyrood: a devolved and sovereign deficient subordinate assembly ‘requesting’ one to Westminster would have greater legitimacy than the 2015 result.

    The fact is that we are in a recognised political Union with England. The clue is in the name. It can only be dissolved by a General Election providing a majority of seats in Scotland for a truly Independence seeking party. Devolution is ‘power retained’..fact…end of.

    Alba is a start. I will vote for it, But I have no faith in this being other than a start to begin to regain all the lost ground since at least 2014.

  201. Andy Ellis says:

    @Rogueslr 5.07 pm

    Given what we’ve seen of D’Hondt, the SNP and the never ending conveyor belt of list-vote no marks over the years, I believe it is imperative that we move towards the STV system used in Ireland.

    I’d far rather see that than risk a party like the SNP gaining the influence it has managed to wield at Holyrood under the current system.

  202. Onlooker says:

    Who’s the drunk woman harassing somebody (funny no sex is mentioned; guessing female) half her age? Not heard of this one. Guess Nicola hasn’t either. Having a vagina and there being no consequences for sexual transgressions in the Sexist Nightmare Party is clearly the hypocritical way to go these days.

  203. Salmond dindunuffin says:

    Superbly written piece. More please!

    RE “The Murrells”, recent history knows of only one state where a married couple were the first and second most powerful figures in government, yes good old Romania under the Ceausescus. Inauspicious comparisons abound in the New SNP’s Scotland.

  204. Al-Stuart says:

    @Shocked at 4.10.

    No you were not trying to be nice.

    You FAILED to read the first three words in my original post and as a result you replied with a LIE.

    You are a TROLL.

    I am not quite sure if you are a 77er or some random Buckfast swally merchant or junkie with a keyboard, but your brains have definitely melted.p with ‘shrooms or suchlike.

    You say your “gloves are off”.

    Away and learn to read you pish ignorant bar fly.

    @Shocked – I see you.

    You are a Troll.

    Seriously Stu., I will donate up to £500 to buy Wings if a WordPress plugin that MUTES these pish-stained lame-brained 77ers and Troll merchants from a BTL contributer’s timeline.

    Stuart, if Twitter can have the HTML coding to sort out mass thread disruption, then surely you, as a professional IT guy can make it possible for BTL Wingers to have a button where they are able to MUTE rabid Amadans such as @Shocked and his wee multiple personality disorder pals Rock, Kcor, Fergus and AndyWanger etc, Thanks chief 🙂

  205. Molly's Mum says:

    @Breeks 3.03pm

    What an excellent post, please imagine me standing in my kitchen applauding because that’s what I did on reading it

    I understand why people don’t want to vote SNP, until ALBA came along we were stuck between a rock and a hard place – if we wanted independence, we were told, it has to be the SNP. Wheest for Indy, don’t let the Unionists in, if you don’t vote SNP it will be all YOUR fault if Holyrood gets shut down etc.

    Then I read people here saying if only Alex Salmond would come back, people on Twitter posting if only Alex would come back, people on WhatsApp wishing Alex would come back.

    “I’d vote for Alex in a flash” they said

    Well he’s back, he’s got a strategy and it depends on us voting SNP 1

    As Breeks says, if Alex Salmond can vote SNP 1, we can all do it

    It doesn’t work if SNP lose constituency votes – you wished for Alex, we have Alex. Why are people now ignoring his plan ?

    I have already sent my postal vote back – SNP1 ALBA2 – because I want to be watching FMQs when Alex rises to his feet, week after week to ask “What progress has the FM made towards independence for Scotland ?”

    Ya dancer

  206. Alastair says:

    This is the most powerful honest inspiring post I have ever read on Wing.
    Dear Dr you have spoken for so many unheard voices.

  207. Stu says:


    I thought the Sexist Nightmare Party was the Stupendously Nice Pension party

  208. twathater says:

    I think you’ll find it is now the Sexual Nonce Peadophile party

  209. Lochside says:

    Max Headroom is still coupling Scotland’s status with Catalonia and Quebec..the true sign of a Brit troll..particularly one with a ‘political education’. All the Britnat trolls want us to let Unionists to win seats in order to undermine Alba’s chances and to send out a message, via the corrupt msm, that we are recoiling from Independence.

    The other tactic is to question Brit State manipulation of our political system. A risible and disgusting lie. As the good DR, states in his article above, the Brits murdered people in broad daylight, infiltrated and framed not only in Ireland over a thirty year period, but on mainland Britain, Whether they be organisations such as Trade Unions or Animal rights. Scotland’s freedom poses an existential threat to England’s prosperity and exalted status on the world stage. It and its fascist elite will do everything to keep the status quo.

    Sturgeon and her coterie of corrupt weaklings and woke virtue signallers were and still are being ably supported by a Unionist civil Service staffed by RUK leadership; Police Scotland with new leadership recruited from outwith Scotland and a strong connection with security services in N.I.The compromised COPFS is a fabricated shell of the once proud Independent Scottish legal system. All of this is a clear indication of a colonised and subjugated country. As Prof. Baird says it is down to the ‘sma folk’ of Scotland, as ever, to rescue auld Scotia from Perfidious Albion.

    BTW, I see that Sturgeon has brought in Tim Hair at £790 k per year to sort out the ferries fuck up at Ferguson’s ship yard.
    Prof Alf Baird and Roy Peterson (marine consultant)
    were on the Holyrood committee which recommended shelving Mackay’s disastrous management of the project and buying ‘off the shelf’ alternatives ready built and saving millions. The video was posted of one of the meetings that was a study in SNP incompetence on here by a winger. What say you Alf?

  210. Arch Stanton says:

    Fishy Willie 5.00 pm

    I would call it what it is, that being a partner in a Union, who only seven years ago decided to continue as a partner in that Union by way of a democratic vote. To call Scotland a colony, when Scotland pleaded to join the Union, to relieve of itself of a self imposed bankruptcy caused by an ill conceived attempt at Empire building of its own and to profit from the burgeoning British Empire, following which Scotland gained more per capita from imperialism and colonisation than any other country in the world, is quite possibly the most absurd piece of irony and self deception imaginable.

    Scotland joined the Union voluntarily and can leave voluntarily, when someone presents a case for doing so and one which convinces a majority of Scots it would be advantageous to do so.

    I have to say, however, when I read some of the comments here about how Scotland could and would dictate on matters of debt responsibility to the UK Government, then I really don’t expect that day to arrive anytime soon.

  211. wee monkey says:

    Quote..”And all roads to democratic change within the party seem to have been removed.”

    Just don’t forget snp1 mind…

  212. Flower of Scotland says:

    Thanks for your refreshingly honest post about the party that I’ve fought for for 57 years this year!

    I’m so angry at Nicola Sturgeon and her cabal for bringing my party, the SNP, into disrepute. Sturgeon,s frightening obsession with Alex Salmond shown today in an interview on SKY TV shows her bitterness and hatred to a man who brought Scotland to 52% YES a couple of weeks before IndyRef in 2014.

    Sturgeon employs the very man, Murray Foote who thought up the dastardly VOW in the Daily Record, which seemed to encourage people in the IndyRef to vote NO She even gives the Unionist press thousands of pounds but harangues Indy bloggers.

    There is something far wrong with the leadership of the SNP. Time for Sturgeon to step down and take the rest of her cabal with her!

  213. cynicalHighlander says:

    The Trolls are getting worried best ignored.

  214. Arch Stanton says:

    Picture the scene:

    It’s 2023 and Scotland has just voted to leave the UK. Scotland’s negotiators tell the U.K. Government they are setting up their own currency and will not accept any responsibility for their share of any debt. U.K. Government responds by saying:

    “Okay, fair enough, get back to us when you’re willing to be realistic but in the meantime you will have to get by on tax receipts raised in Scotland, lest you continue adding substantially to our existing debt. Now close the door on your way out please”

    Then what?

  215. Fergus says:

    Only a wanker says :-

    “I see you, you are a Troll”.

    It means you have lost the argument and have to resort to childish, meaningless name calling.

    No one in particular, just saying.

  216. Arch Stanton says:

    Meanwhile in news elsewhere, as nationalists in Scotland pretend to understand and grapple with the issues around the actualité of independence, Nicola Sturgeon proves she is focused on the current COVID pandemic and a looming independence referendum, by immediately prioritising the “outlawing of gay conversion therapy”

    I mean what on Earth constitutes “gay conversion therapy” exactly and who carries it out?

  217. Arch Stanton says:

    Fergus 6.06 pm

    Impossible to disagree with you.

    Le mec est branleur sans doute!

  218. Eugene Henderson says:

    For those who think you have to vote SNP 1 for ALBA two gain more List seats, it is complete and utter bullshit.

    Those pushing that shite are Sturgeon extremists who want to see Sturgeon and her Party returned to Government, no matter what she done in her past life.

    I will definitely NOT be Voting SNP under any circumstances.

    This explains it:-

    Paul Cockshott says:
    15 April, 2021 at 11:29 pm

    There is a misaprehension that failure to vote SNP 1 will affect the number of Alba seats. It will not. The number of Alba seats depends only on the percentage of votes Alba gets on the list. Failure to vote SNP 1 just alters the number of SNP Tory or Labour constituency seats.

    If Sturgeon loses to Sarwar then that does not affect Albas number of seats, provided Alba gets some 6% or more on the list. If the divisor for the SNP falls by 1 that for Labour rises by 1 in compensation.

    The voting system is cleverly designed to give proportionality in a way that is independent of which parties win in the constituencies.

  219. President Xiden says:

    Looking forward to a new week and more election bribes from Nicola.

  220. Ruby says:

    Onlooker says:
    18 April, 2021 at 5:23 pm
    Who’s the drunk woman harassing somebody (funny no sex is mentioned; guessing female) half her age? Not heard of this one. Guess Nicola hasn’t either. Having a vagina and there being no consequences for sexual transgressions in the Sexist Nightmare Party is clearly the hypocritical way to go these days.


    This was covered in various MSM articles around the 11th March although there wasn’t much detail about the female MP except that she denied it.

    Seems unfair that Patrick Grady was named but she wasn’t.

    My view of all these allegations of sexual harassment is that they are all very trivial. Being that nobody in the SNP spoke up when Mark MacDonald was fired for sending a text or when Alex Salmond was taken to court they deserve all they get.

    In the above article Malcolm writes:

    “Draconian punishment does still exist – ask Neale Hanvey – but appears quite arbitrary and unpredictable, seems to be a leadership prerogative and, conveniently, to bypass the SNP’s constitution and rules. Not surprisingly, elected members (with occasional honourable exceptions) fail to make eye contact and fail to speak out. About anything. The arbitrariness is important. How loyal to the leadership are you going to be if you know there are un-actioned misdemeanours lurking in your file?”

    Earlier Dorothy Devine posted the following with regard to the above and nobody in the SNP speaking out

    “I am kind of hoping that someone will tell truths and the deil tak the hinmost.”

    It seems to be the case that the only people speaking out are those who have left the SNP.

    Could we see a lot of SNP politicians deflecting to Alba after the election and then speaking out?

  221. Ian Stewart says:

    I am in a position to corroborate in detail Mr Kerr’s account of the SNP senior officers ignoring formal complaints against a standing senior MSP but would wish to remain anonymous at this point in time.

  222. Cadogan Enright says:

    Well at least Arch is not pretending to be a disillusioned SNP voter or and Alba member who cannot remember who ALEX suggested we should vote for like the other trolls on here..

    He is just a God’s honest Unionist ignoramus who hasn’t a clue about what he is talking about and is regurgitating discredited untruths from 2014

  223. Mikey d says:

    Flower of Scotland 5.50pm which is why if it were my constituency, it would be sarwar 1 Alba 2. Just to get rid of that spiteful bitch who has shown Scotland her true unionist colours.

  224. Ruby says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 6:11 pm

    I mean what on Earth constitutes “gay conversion therapy” exactly and who carries it out?

    Is that a serious question?

    Some say it is carried out by Mermaids using puberty blockers.

  225. K1 says:

    ‘1. Would Scotland be liable for English debt if it became independent?

    It is an odd claim that is made by Unionists that Scotland is liable for debt due by the UK. The oddness comes from the fact that this recognises that Scotland’s sovereignty is real and divisible from the UK as a whole. It is therefore in existence now. If so, the point has been conceded that Scotland is already an economic as well as national entity separate from the UK, and has been during the existence of UK.

    This then concedes a second argument, which is that English identity is also separate, divisible from the UK and continuing as well. This must be so. The very fact that there are two separate countries (of which England is the representative of one) that might assume this debt is, in that case, common ground.

    There should also be common ground on another issue. And that is that there is actually already agreement that Scotland will have no liability for any of the debt of England, Wales or Northern Ireland (although for all practical purposes, this is English debt) if it chooses to become independent. We know this because the UK government issued a publication on this issue in 2014 under the title[1]:

    UK debt and the Scotland independence referendum

    In this the UK government, based in London, said:

    In the event of Scottish independence from the United Kingdom (UK), the continuing UK Government would in all circumstances honour the contractual terms of the debt issued by the UK Government. An independent Scottish state would become responsible for a fair and proportionate share of the UK’s current liabilities, but a share of the outstanding stock of debt instruments that have been issued by the UK would not be transferred to Scotland. For example, there would be no change in counterparty for holders of UK gilts. Instead, an independent Scotland would need to raise funds in order to reimburse the continuing UK for this share.

    They added:

    An entirely separate contract between the continuing UK Government and an independent Scottish state’s Government would need to be established. The respective shares of debt and the terms of repayment would be subject to negotiation.

    In addition they said:

    In the event of independence, the full spectrum of assets and liabilities – past, future and contingent – would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments, on a case-by-case basis. This means that the negotiations would need to cover the arrangements for all forms of debt covered in this note, not just gilts and Treasury.

    I think this really rather helpful because much of it summarises what appears to be legally, practically and politically both true, and necessary. In the process it resolves the first question. The UK government has said Scotland will not be liable for debts managed by London before independence. Instead anything owing is entirely down to negotiation. The idea that in that case Scotland has some fixed share of UK debt that it must assume can be dismissed: this claim has no legal or factual basis.’

  226. Beaker says:

    @Cadogan Enright says:
    18 April, 2021 at 6:29 pm
    “Well at least Arch is not pretending to be a disillusioned SNP voter or and Alba member”

    Do you know where he got his name from?

    The Good, Bad and Ugly. The name of the grave next to the one containing the gold.

  227. Robert Graham says:

    Just listened to a Indy live clip Mark McNaught interviewing Neale Hanvey , remember Neale he was the one who amongst others were tossed under the bus by princess Nicola and friends , she actually attempted to get people to vote against Neale in the last Westminster election,
    Neale said people have said to him that he should resign after joining ALBA why the fk should he the SNP never helped him get elected so he doesn’t owe them anything .
    Neale is just one amongst a whole lot of good people that this version of the SNP have failed to help failed to protect , the sheer amount of of deranged fkn loonies that are still in the SNP is mind boggling princess Nicola seems to attract every loon in Scotland,what a selling point eh .

  228. Mikey d says:

    Cadogan, Obviously arch was a yoon troll from his first post, i can understand why wings allows everyone a point of view here, but when you get vile scum denigrating nationalists and Scotland as too wee, poor, stupid etc and using wings as a platform to spout their bile. Get them tae f***.

  229. Ron Maclean says:

    ‘The Irish Experience’ –

  230. Geoff Anderson says:

    Eugene Henderson@ 6:19pm

    What a crock of misleading shit.

    In the D’Hondt system the divisor for the list is determined by 1+No.of Costituencies won. If the SNP won 8 constuencies then the list divisor would start at Nine.90,000 SNP votes on the list divided by 9. Not enough for one seat.
    Not voting SNP will give Tories the constituency seats.
    If the SNP kept all 90,000 list votes and lost 3 seats the new divisor is 6. 90k/6=15k maybe one seat. However all the list votes remained with the SNP. Half those 90k would give 4 MSPs to ALBA.
    Your suggestion gives more Unionist constituency MSPs and no ALBA MSPs but I suspect that is why you are pushing it.

    Question – Do you trust Alex’s advice or a Unionist troll.

  231. Arch Stanton says:

    Good on ya Beaker,

    I thought about Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez, but didn’t want to confuse those who like to call me rude names?

  232. Arch Stanton says:

    Mikey d

    Lol no really??

  233. Arch Stanton says:


    Yes it was a serious question. I genuinely didn’t put know there could possibly be such a thing and wonder what the hell it is they do?

  234. t42 says:

    Scot Finlayson says:

    “Brent Crude at $67 per barrel from $22 at the start of lockdown last year,

    that`s $67,000,000 of our resources every day going dan saff to modernise the infrastructure of England,

    bigest theft in the history of civilisation”

  235. Ottomanboi says:

    Arch Stanton 6:11
    «Gay conversion therapy» might be interpreted as a therapy to turn you «gay».
    Now, why would the Nicolati be opposed to that?
    An all gay, all trans nation, yay!
    Who needs independence under Wee Momma’s caring régime?

  236. Arch Stanton says:

    Cadogan, who claims Scotland could walk away with no debt, refers to others as be8ng ignorant.

    I mean really??

  237. Pogrom69 says:

    A few peeps have been pointing out that SNP1 ALBA2 may result in ALBA votes being considered spoiled if voters entered the number 2 on the ballot paper. I know there are instructions on the ballot paper to put an X but even so perhaps the electioneering message should be adjusted to

    SNP X / ALBA X

    or just ALBA X.

    Every vote counts and this could go down to the wire. So something that actually indicates how to vote wouldn’t be out of place.

  238. Arch Stanton says:


    Good spot there and good point.

  239. Andy Ellis says:

    @Lochside 5.45 pm

    Unlike you bud, I’m posting under my own name. If the Daily Heil can find me for their #cybernat7 spread, it’s hardly likely I’d be hiding my light under a bushel her of all places is it? I’ve no idea who you are – nor indeed do I care. I’ve been posting on here for yonks tho’: regulars here know where I stand and have seen my journey from SNP member, to cutting up my card to joining Alba. I’ll be happy to post a pick of my special founder members card when it arrives.

    I’m advocating depriving the deeply corrupt SNP or SNP/Green coalition of an overall majority. It’s not rocket science except to the hard of thinking like you, exactly the kind of folk who other any disagreement as being unionist plants, closet britnats etc. If it wasn’t so predictable, it’d almost be funny. You give Bacofoil a bad name.

    What sort of message does Alba send out unless it holds the balance of power in Holyrood bud? Sure, it’ll be nice to have a “real” independence party back in Holyrood, and even better to see Alex humiliate Nicola on a rolling basis at FM questions, but if the party can’t force plebiscitary elections it’s all just so much talk until 2026, unless you’re relying on an SNP coup. Good luck with that.

    Given the rest of what passes for your analysis, I think we can safely assume we won’t be troubled with your fervid imaginings that much. Zoomers gonna zoom, just like gradualists gonna gradualise.

  240. Cadogan Enright says:

    @ Geoff Anderson 6:47 pm @ Eugene Henderson @ 6:19pm

    Geoff, you are wasting your time with Eugene. He is on a mission and it does not include maximising the Yes vote.

    I wonder how much, if anything, he donated to Alba ?

  241. Kiwilassie says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    18 April, 2021 at 2:09 pm
    Arch Stanton.

    I didn’t post the link because its behind a paywall, but you can read few sentences for free.

    Here is the archive link

  242. Andy Ellis says:

    @Arch 6.55 pm

    It’s a negotiation. In general the “seceding” entity assumes none of the debt of the “continuing” entity. For example the former Soviet Republics didn’t assume any of the debts of the USSR, the Russian Federation assumed it all. Colonies in post colonial situations are also not liable for any of the debts of the imperial power.

    In other situations, negotiations have taken place. Czechia and Slovakia agreed a split of assets and of debt in proportion to their relative size. Ireland agreed to assume responsibility for some UK debt (chiefly tied to historic amounts outstanding for the purchase of land for landless Irish tenant farmers), but this amount was never paid in return for Dublin agreeing to the gerrymandered border of the NI statelet.

    If London wants Scotland to assume a proportion of UK debt, it has to engage in good faith discussions and agree an equitable split of all assets as a quid pro quo. No agreement = no debt. I’d be fine with that personally. An independent Scotland starting with zero debt would probably be pretty attractive to international markets: certainly much more attractive than rump UK with it’s trillion £ debt. Good luck with that!

  243. Mikey d says:

    Lochside. 5.45 ‘the brits murdered people in broad daylight’.
    They even murdered solicitors pat finucane and rosemary nelson, and were behind the dublin and monaghan car bombings, miami showband etc. These barstewards hands are drenched with the blood of innocent people. And Quite a lot of people in Scotland happy to go along with it. But wait till its your turn Scotland, england will never let you go peacefully.

  244. Lochside says:

    Fallen Arches @ 5.46pm says

    ‘I would call it what it is, that being a partner in a Union, who only seven years ago decided to continue as a partner in that Union by way of a democratic vote. To call Scotland a colony, when Scotland pleaded to join the Union, to relieve of itself of a self imposed bankruptcy caused by an ill conceived attempt at Empire building of its own and to profit from the burgeoning British Empire, following which Scotland gained more per capita from imperialism and colonisation than any other country in the world, is quite possibly the most absurd piece of irony and self deception imaginable’

    Well, I will call your trolling bluff. If not for you, as I know that you are indeed a troll and probably a paid one in uniform. But, however for new honest seekers of truth to this site, I profer the following response to your uneducated bigoted lying statement:

    (1) 2014 Referendum was compromised by a universal Unionist msm campaign. With the notorious lying ‘VOW’ by Murray Foote of the Daily Redcoat and now Propaganda main man for the SNP(??).
    Also Cambridge analytical were involved along with proven postal vote rigging ( see Argyll and Bute and Ruth Davidson speaking on TV before votes counted that ‘No had won’)

    (2) Scotland never ‘pleaded’ to join the Union. Nor was it ‘self imposed’. Our attempts to extend our trade were blocked at every turn by English military influence ( see Darien); spies such as Daniel Defoe helped to bribe the Aristocratic ‘elite’ who ran Scotland’s parliament with the ‘Equivalent’, £398,000 for their personal losses in Darien, Not Scotland’s. England’s national debt at the time was £14 MILLION. The parcel o rogues agreed for our country to share England’s debt….and so it still goes on. BTW England’s population was only 5 x times that of Scotland in
    England sent an army to the border on the week the Scottish Parliament sold Scotland’s freedom. There were riots against the Union in every major town and city. The parliamentarians had to hide by leaving parliament by a subterranean passage under the High St. Scotland’s people had no wish for Union with England.

    (3) The ‘burgeoning British Empire’ only began after England got access to”inexhaustible treasury of men” ( Defoe again). Conquests of Canada, India etc. only then ensued.

    (4) The only ‘Scots’ who gained from imperialism and colonialism were the same class that sold us in 1707. Since then we have haemorrhaged our people from this land through being colonised and oppressed by England and its Caledonian lackeys. Highland and Lowland clearances; suppression of our languages and culture; even our music and garb prohibited; an Alien Act that reduced our religious liberties to second class; and the sacrifice of 200,000 pf our young men in two wars followed by mass emigration throughout the 20th century. The final humiliations in the last 40 years were the deliberate stripping out of our industrial bases; the bare faced theft of billions of pounds of our natural resources, particularly oil. Our nearest neighbour in the North Atlantic, Norway, a country which has possessed less oil reserves than Scotland, sits with an oil fund equal to the UK’s national debt.. sorry, correction , England’s national debt, as Scotland is unable to borrow any money or credit.

    In addition, 6000 sq miles of maritime territory moved by stealth into England’s domain, literally on the stroke of midnight. Finally, the disregard of our country’s democratic decision to remain in the EU despite the lie in 2014 that ‘NO’ in the REF meant the reverse.

  245. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Kiwilassie 7.08

    I don’t think we should archive the National as ‘hits’ will help their advertising. It should be one of our exceptions – and there are not many

    I’d say we should be pushing for folk to subscribe. It may not be perfect but it is a damn sight better than everything else out there.

  246. Baxter1967 says:

    What Nicola said to Sophie Ridge was quite revealing: “ independence is not an end in itself but a means to a better life for people”. In other words, an end to a one party state and the beginning of a multiplicity of political parties. No cosy relationship with the Scottish Greens to fund state sponsored equality ( identity politics) nonsense and not being able to blame the English Tories for every ill. Responsibility.
    Hard work encouraging economic growth to pay for her vanity projects when she knows next to nothing about economics and business. Better to stay in the comfort zone and push independence into the long grass with a fan club that worships her every word and a brain dead opposition.
    Here lies the difference between her and Salmond. Salmond has the vision he is not risk averse.

  247. robertknight says:

    Cadogan Enright @ 7:18

    Sorry – but so long as the National continues to be the Nic Fanzine that it is, I’ll not spend a penny on it.

    The puff piece by the anon Alphabites was the last straw.

  248. Ruby says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 6:53 pm

    Yes it was a serious question. I genuinely didn’t put know there could possibly be such a thing and wonder what the hell it is they do?



    I have to keep in mind that there are people posting here who need help with basic things like doing a Google search and knowing that you require to put an X in the box when you are voting.

    Do you vote in Scotland Arch do you need some help with what you do in order to cast a vote?

    I’m wondering if you also need help with the expression ‘pardon my french’
    Do you think that means that all swearing should be done in French? 🙂

    Happy to help but in the meantime give Google a go.

  249. Mist001 says:

    Every day, every day almost without exception, virtually everyone here expresses their disgust and outrage at the latest disagreeable wheeze by the SNP disguised as policy.

    We have the Trans rights outrage, the missing £600,000 outrage and a leader who attempted to have Alex Salmond jailed outrage and that’s just the stuff that spring to mind immediately. This site is FULL of similar outrageous behaviour.

    And yet, most people here are intending to VOTE SNP!!

    What the fuck are you all about?

    Voting for the SNP means that you approve of, and condone their behaviour. What they get up to is completely acceptable to you.

    If anyone votes SNP, then simply you are as corrupt as they are. That’s what it fucking means.

    If the people on here who profess to be outraged at the behaviour of the SNP on a daily basis even consider voting SNP, then they simply don’t deserve an independent Scotland.

    Voting for fucking crooks, what are you all thinking of? Do none of you have any integrity?

  250. Stephen P says:

    Why should Alba attempt to max the Yes vote when Sturgeon states that she will not work with Alba, doesn’t agree with the super majority and doesn’t know what Alba stands for?

    It actually increases the chances of Alba candidates getting elected if the SNP loses some constituency seats.

    E.g. if the SNP lose one constituency seat out of 9 then their list vote divisor reduces by 1 to 9 which will still be severe enough to gain no list seats.

    If they lose a constituency to a unionist party then the unionist party list vote divisor increases by 1 which will reduce their list seat tally by 1, leaving Alba more likely to pick up the seat.

    The super majority is only relevant if all independence parties unite which is evidently not going to happen.

    Face facts, Alba is the long game. Vote Alba on the list and do whatever you want with your constituency vote.

    The only thing that matters is maximising the Alba vote.

  251. T Hardy says:

    There is nothing here I would not disagree with. Once we get a referendum I have resigned from the party as I do not want to be defending their abysmall record and internal corruption in the future Yes campaign.

    The last straw for me is the gerrymandering of the list where you have imbeciles such as Emma Roddick, Graham Campbell and Emma Harper get to the top of the list.

    The party knew about Derek Mackay and Patrick Grady and did nothing about it. There were scores more kids who Derek Mackay had hassled but were too scared to come forward as they would be going against the party machine. The next one to break is Richard Laird, who was hassling activists as young as 15 and sending them pictures of his genitalia. Yet again Highland MPs and MSPs knew and did nothing about it. Emma Roddick, his partner and best friend covered up for him and ensured the police were not contacted. Now he is training to be a lawyer and she is going to be given a 5 year job despite never holding one down for more than 3 months before. There is a dossier with Roddicks private messages,statements and FOIs coming out after the election. Yet again another scandal where SNP will have to remove the whip and become a minority government.

  252. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    Pogrom69 – another idiot!

    It is two different coloured voting papers. They stand alone.

  253. Arch Stanton says:


    Je parle très bien le français donc je serais content de continuer en français si tu veux mais je crois que tu aurais meme moins de connaissance de la politique français que l’écossais.

    Bien sûr que nous pourrons dire des mauvais mots l’un à l’autre aussi si tu préfères?

    De toute façon c’est sur que tu es con?

  254. Ruby says:

    I wonder who is going to be the first to be hooked by the latest flame-bait that has emerged from the misty shadows.

  255. Jacqueline McMillan says:

    I’m not a sleeper and I listen to Barrhead boy and Glinner. ALBA and Alex have given me hope. Thanks x

  256. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    Stephen P

    Have you even looked at the constituencies!
    You could change 4 Tories / 3 Labour to 3 Tories/ 4 Labour or let in a LibDem.

    Is this the cunning Unionist Troll sell worked out at HQ?

  257. Eugene Henderson says:

    Why is it that if you deviate a fraction off the Sturgeon Extremists message of ,Vote SNP 1, that you are somehow a Troll or a Unionist?

    It’s crazy bias thinking of the highest order.

    I will never vote SNP ever again.

    And the bullshit that If I don’t then ALBA will somehow lose votes is just that, bullshit.

    Read this:-

    Paul Cockshott says:
    15 April, 2021 at 11:29 pm

    There is a misaprehension that failure to vote SNP 1 will affect the number of Alba seats. It will not. The number of Alba seats depends only on the percentage of votes Alba gets on the list. Failure to vote SNP 1 just alters the number of SNP Tory or Labour constituency seats.

    If Sturgeon loses to Sarwar then that does not affect Albas number of seats, provided Alba gets some 6% or more on the list. If the divisor for the SNP falls by 1 that for Labour rises by 1 in compensation.

    The voting system is cleverly designed to give proportionality in a way that is independent of which parties win in the constituencies.

  258. Ruby says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    De toute façon c’est sur que tu es con?


    Con? Should that not be conne?

    Don’t worry I’ll pardon your French and all the rest!

  259. John Martini says:

    Scotland to expand post colonial studies to teach children about the 40 scottish slave owners who would have described themselves as North British.

  260. Arch Stanton says:


    I stopped reading at your first mention of the word “troll” as I’m sure most people did.

    I’ll be honest with you, I’m actually quite a friendly and light hearted individual and can usually manage to strike up a rapport with people, no matter how much we may disagree. I normally even manage to engage in friendly banter, converse in a civilised fashion and even learn a thing or two along the way.

    I have to say, however, that the apparently universal knee – jerk reaction here, which sees people denounced as stupid, ignorant or trolls, when clearly they are not and merely because they may have a different opinion, is tiresome, tedious and guaranteed to ensure people are turned off of independence.

    I bid you good evening and look forward to engaging with you in a more constructive and enjoyable manner at some stage in the future.

  261. Ruby says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    Je parle très bien le français donc je serais content de continuer en français si tu veux mais je crois que tu aurais meme moins de connaissance de la politique français que l’écossais.


    I’ve spotted another couple of schoolboy errors.
    Perhaps best if you just continue in English.

  262. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Kcor @ 7.48 as Eugene

    Where is Paul the cock anyhow. Has he served his purpose.

    Stop peddling that shite that you plugged in here as Paul Cock and then your continued plugging of same shite?

  263. Arch Stanton says:


    Désolé Ruby je n’étais pas sur si tu étais vraiment une fille. On n’est jamais sur de nos jours à cause de Nicola mais tu as raison – tu es conne.

    Come on Ruby lighten up quine, we can surely be friendly and still disagree.

    Dinna suppose ye spik Doric either?

  264. Fergus says:

    Usual suspects looking for their perfect website, where everyone is in love with Sturgeon and they’ll all vote SNP 1.

    Well the Rev is a bit more democratic than that.

    He opens up his forum to people from all over the world. It’s so we all have an input.

    He didn’t start up Wings so a few SNP diegards could have a cosy wee fireside echo chamber.

  265. Arch Stanton says:

    Ruby Quine,

    Ou sont des erreurs?

  266. Fishy Wullie says:

    ist001 says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:30 pm

    “Voting for the SNP means that you approve of, and condone their behaviour. What they get up to is completely acceptable to you.”

    Don’t be so f@cking stupid, of course we know what they get up to but we can face reality and accept we don’t live in a perfect world like you do Mist, we have to make the best of the situation we find ourselves in which is less than optimal and think of the greater good

    “If anyone votes SNP, then simply you are as corrupt as they are. That’s what it fucking means.”

    No it doesn’t that would only apply in the perfect fantasy world in Mist

    “If the people on here who profess to be outraged at the behaviour of the SNP on a daily basis even consider voting SNP, then they simply don’t deserve an independent Scotland.”

    Maybe according to you Mist being the self appointed arbiter of the deserving, maybe you’d like to tell us what we’ve done to deserve you on this site”

    “Voting for fucking crooks, what are you all thinking of? Do none of you have any integrity?”

    Probably not I’d vote for Lucifer himself if I thought he’d deliver independence, presumably not you of course being the all knowing authority on integrity

  267. Ruby says:

    Arch Stanton says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:58 pm

    Désolé Ruby je n’étais pas sur si tu étais vraiment une fille. On n’est jamais sur de nos jours à cause de Nicola mais tu as raison – tu es conne.


    Excuses! Excuses!

    I haven’t been unfriendly whereas you have misgendered me 🙂
    and called me an ignorant cunt – pardon my French!

  268. Gone right handed says:

    Ooo, a very long thread. Took me all of about ten seconds to scroll down to the end.

    Anyway. Are we still intent on indy? OK so, why do you bother? Too much psychic grief man. Or something.

    Seriously. Why bother expending so much energy when you could re-direct your Angst (German word there, nod to the EU) to making Scotland’s lot better within the UK. Which the SNP so signally have failed to do. Deliberately perhaps. Because they can get votes. Thereby.

  269. Maybe the SNP’s new slogan ought to be: “Close your eyes and think of independence!”

  270. Mia says:

    “I see next to zero prospect of the international community recognising any declaration of independence which isn’t clearly in response to the people being asked for a mandate”

    I see zero prospects of not some countries at least accepting the result. I do not recall in the history books the Republic of Ireland or any of the colonies that left the empire wondering if they would be accepted as an independent state before declaring themselves one. They declared themselves and independent state and then communicated so to the world.

    We are, seemingly, in irreconciliable positions.

    If Scotland exercises its right to dissolve the treaty of union, which is an international treaty, there is nothing for the international community to say about it.

    You insist in presenting the situation of Scotland as if it was Catalonia. Just like DRoss is. I see this attitude as a deliberate attempt to undermine Scotland, a sovereign state that entered voluntarily into a bipartite union under an international treaty, to the level of the region of a country.

    I do not accept and never will the explanations that you give for the reasons why Scotland will be seen as Catalonia by the international community. Any of that can be immediately stopped by challenging England’s government attempt to use bad faith to force on Scotland its own will in an international court of law.

    In the 6 years Sturgeon has been in power, she could have invested some of that time to educate the world on what Scotland actually is instead of trying to force down our throats English convention.

    “No mandate for independence was requested in the 2015 Westminster GE”

    And there was no need to. It is in the constitution of the party itself. We voted for that political party on the basis of that constitution.

    “because the devolutionary Holyrood parliament was (and remains) wedded to the referendum process à la 2012-14”
    Er not. What is wedded to that idea is Sturgeon and her government because they have no intention in put in action the constitution of the party. A real pro independence leader would be questioning the vow and declaring the vote invalid when it was revealed that Ruth Davidson had access to the postal votes before the counting had been completed.

    “1. That’s irrelevant to the issue at hand”

    We are clearly in diametrically opposed sides. I see it as completely relevant to the issue at hand and I am not about to change my mind. The constitution of a political party whose raison d’etre is the end of the union is very much relevant at all times. You cannot lead a political party whose raison d’etre is to end the union and then decide, depending how the wind blows, if you respect the constitution of your party in that election or not.

    Claiming that they do not have a mandate for independence given the party’s constitution, when they won 95% of the seats and when we are in a parliamentary democracy means they are reneging of the fundamental point of the constitution of their party, the party itself. In other words, they are actively misleading the electorate.

    ” Achieving independence requires a clear and unequivocal response to a mandate the international community accepts”

    No. Achieving independence requires Scotland to want it, for OUR parliament to accept it and for OUR parliament to withdraw from the political union that is binding us to England. The international community has no business in interfering with our right to exercise our self determination.

    A 95% of the seats in a parliamentary democracy being given to a party whose raison d’etre is to terminate the union is a clear and unequivocal response of the people of Scotland the international community must accept.

    “especially if the UK attempts to contest the result of a change from a referendum to a plebiscitary election route”

    by UK I understand you mean England. Scotland is part of the UK and if Scotland is dissolving the UK, then it is not “the UK” who is contesting anything. It will be England using the UK state apparatus as if it was its own.

    I see nothing wrong with that reasoning.

    “The international community will never accept independence claims from an entity like Scotland”

    The “entity” Scotland is a recognised nation that has maintained its borders pro UK and that entered, as an independent, sovereign state, in an international political union. Without the “entity” Scotland, the UK would cease to exist. Without the “entity” Scotland’s consent for Westminster to act on behalf of Scotland, the legitimacy of the UK parliament and government would stop.

    “which is not clearly backed by more than 50% of the popular vote”
    How many colonies left the UK without a vote on independence?
    We do not need a referendum to declare independence. We never did. It is not stipulated in international law that we need that.
    If you demand a >50% of the vote in Scotland to declare independence, then the exact same principle applies to Brexit. Only 38% voted for brexit in Scotland and that was seen as democratic. It seems to me that unsalvageable barriers and obstacles are only found when it comes to Scotland choosing to exercise its legitimate right to self determination and to terminate this political union.

    “gained in response to a clear request or mandate for independence”

    There is no need to seek a mandate for independence. What we need is a leadership that actually respects the fundamental raison d’etre of the party instead of trying to blur it down at every opportunity. If you don’t respect the raison d’etre of the party, what is the point of the party?

    “Thus they wouldn’t have accepted the 2015 result even tho’ we had 56 of 59 MP’s”
    They did accept Ireland’s result a century ago, didn’t they? You are in no position to determine what all the world countries will do or will not do. Let them speak for themselves when the time comes.

    “This really isn’t rocket science”
    Indeed it isn’t, so why do you insist in overcomplicating it?

    “raging against the machine”
    Whose machine? Sturgeon’s hand-brake machine?

    “and insisting it’ll be fine going down this route are simply deluded”
    There is no delusion in demanding from a party that has as raison d’etre and as its main constitutional aim to dissolve the UK to actually do it when they are given 95%, 56% or 85% of the seats in a parliamentary democracy. What is deluded is to expect, like STrugeon expects, that voters simply accept to ignore the party’s raison d’etre until she feels like accepting it herself, if she ever does. If she does not accept the raison d’etre of the party and its constitution, she should not be in the party. She should be in New Labour.

    Margaret Thatcher accepted this route. If it was good for Margaret Thatcher, it is good enough for me.

    “it just makes you look like the kind of tin-foil hat wearing…”
    Here we go. When you cannot beat the argument bring forward the ad hominem to distract from the main point of the discussion.

    “Please just stop it!”
    Sorry, I am not prepared to accept the british nationalist notion that Scotland has no rights nor that we simply have to accept all what England Mps tell us and that the goalposts to get independence can be constantly changed by England to make it impossible for us to end this union.

    “The rest of your (as usual) over-long post”
    It is what it is. If you don’t like it, simply skip it and use your precious time for something else.

    “is just a rehash of what you said earlier”
    As yours is.

    “and no more convincing for the super-abundance of words”
    Ad hominem and criticism of the style rather than the argument does not make your own point of view stronger, but weaker.

    “Prolixity doesn’t make what passes for your case any more convincing”
    I don’t come here for lessons in grammar nor writing skills, but thank you for offering them gratuitously. I come to put my point of view across, and long post of short, that is what I will continue to do.

    “it actually shows it up for the unreasoned “I feel it in my waters so it must be true” bollocks it is”
    I see nothing in your post that cannot be included in the “I feel it in my waters so it must be true” bollocks. The only difference is that it is YOUR waters and not mine. That is what must make your point of view FOR YOU more believable than mine. Well, it does not work for me, sorry.

    “Please, please find a decent editor”
    As I said above, if you don’t enjoy my writing style, skip the posts. Nowhere in my posts I write “must read”.

    “Less is more”
    Take note of your own advice. Half of your comment is nothing more than a subtle attempt at ad hominem and attacking my writing style to disguise your awareness that your criticism to my point of view is far too weak to change it.

    Thank you for advice I did not ask for. If it is okay with you I will not follow it. You have not convinced me the SNP has refused to initiate negotiations for independence for any other reason than because it does not want it. You have not convinced me that a majority of the vote is required in a parliamentary democracy to declare independence when that was not a demand in previous colonies. You have not convinced me that the international community has a say in Scotland’s matters. If they did they would have not allowed Brexit to take place against the will of the people of Scotland. You most certainly have not convinced me that Scotland is comparable to Catalonia. I am familiar with Catalonia’s history so I know it is not.
    You have not convinced me that a majority of SNP MPs is not a mandate for independence. Margaret Thatcher accepted it and Mr Salmond is asking for a supermajority of seats, not votes.

    “I hope to be hearing you much more”
    Sure, but just saying what you want to hear. It is not going to happen. Sorry.

  271. Gone right handed says:

    Did you like my use of das wort Angst. Sie mussen Deutsch lernen, Schottland, als you want to join mit die Europaische Union.

    After all, if you become independent and join the EU all that guff about Gaelic will be pretty redundant. Sie mussen Deutsch lernen. If you want to get on, that is.

  272. Gone right handed says:

    Unless you sell your land, and your industry, to the Chinese Communist Party.

    You’ll probably sell your soul too.

  273. Arch Stanton says:


    Si c’est toi sympa je ne veux pas te rencontrer quand tu es fâchée

    Ton traduction de con ou conne n’est pas bon. Oui l’origine du mot est très dur mais ce n’est pas trop mal. Je suis déçu que tu ne peux pas bavarder en bon humeur mais tant pis. Une autre fois peut être?

  274. Gone right handed says:

    @Mia. Post too long dear. Couldn’t be bothered to read it. I’m English. Short attention span.

  275. Wee Willie says:

    The Republic of Ireland will soon find out that being in the EU is not a bed of roses. The EU will throw the ROI under the bus when it suits. Ditto an independent Scotland.

  276. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    You’ve been telt before clown.

    We can vote here- YOU CAN’T

  277. Red says:

    I don’t know what’s more tedious: Moneywang or Shetlandwang.

    Anyway, well said Dr. Kerr.

  278. Arch Stanton says:

    Gone right handed,

    Nothing to do with your nationality or short attention span mate. Nobody will ever finish reading any of her posts. They love a rant here or what?

  279. Stephen says:

    Arch Stanton
    “On chercheroit la verite sans hesiter; et si on le refuse, on tesmoigne estimer plus l’estime des hommes que la recherche de la verite.”

  280. Heaver says:

    “Rogueslr says:
    18 April, 2021 at 5:07 pm
    Post independence what voting system would be used? First past the Post, d’Hondt or another type of proportional representation?”

    Good question, one we need to start debating right soon.
    STV gives we the voters the most accurate representation of our preferences. We get a list of candidates and score them by preference. Taken in total, the nation ends up with the government it voted for. This gives us power over our representatives, and they know it, so finally, they have to pay careful attention to what we want. And since we also know it, finally, we the voters have the incentive to dig deeper and know more about what’s going on, inform ourselves, and wield our power wisely, maybe even get involved.

    STV is the opposite end of the democracy spectrum from FPTP, d’Hondt being somewhere in between.

    But there’s many countries in the world, notably northern europe, doing very well with different systems of PR. Which to choose? I’d choose the system that gives me the most power over my government, my understanding is that STV gives me the most power.

  281. Tannadice Boy says:

    Stu has dished up some very good guest article contributions of late and Dr Kerr fits that bill. You can tell by the number of SNP interventions in the btl comments. What are they worried about?. They are polling so high. No worries?. It’s the imposter syndrome again. Constant affirmation is required. The SNP are so insecure. Or should we say their leadership?.

  282. Alf Baird says:

    Lochside @ 5:45 pm

    “it is down to the ‘sma folk’ of Scotland, as ever, to rescue auld Scotia from Perfidious Albion.”

    This aye seems to be the case, as any analysis of postcolonial theory informs us precisely where we are today, and why.

    What the new national party ALBA demonstrates for us, as JP Sartre described, is that by integrating into ‘establishment Scotland’ the SNP are now a part of: “the tin-pot bourgeoisies that colonialism has already placed in the saddle”. They are now effectively Scotland’s colonial (i.e. unionist) administration – ‘no mention of independence on SNP election leaflets please!’

    Sartre (and Fanon) cautions that the independence movement, after initial success loses momentum, and if it is to start again it “must throw their bourgeoisie overboard” and with it “the cult of the leader” who, in Fanon’s words makes their own “accommodation with colonialism” and moves “out of rhythm” with the mass of the people.

    The events we are now witnessing have therefore been played out numerous times before in many different colonies through the well trod path to national liberation, or to continued subjugation, cultural assimilation, oppression, and rule by force; these are the only choices facing the Scottish people.

    As you imply Lochside, it is about time the Scots better understood what independence is really about and the realisation will be shocking for many as they come to know what it is and why it is necessary.

  283. Arch Stanton says:


    Tu parles très bien.

  284. Stephen says:

    Arch Stanton
    It’s not me. It’s Pascal.

  285. Morag says:

    Good to read this contribution from my almost-namesake and realise he is also on board with Wings.

    I remember meeting Malcolm at my very first SNP conference in about 1993, when I went to speak to him partly because of the name thing, and mainly because my own family comes from Arran, where he lives, and I thought he might be a relative. Turned out no, he’s actually one of the much larger family of Borders Kerrs, but living in Arran, whereas here I am, a scion of the small Arran Kerr family, now living in the Borders.

    Anyone, score one more on the side of the good guys. I was going to say, those awakened to what’s going on in the party, but that comes a bit too close to the concept of “woke” for my liking.

  286. Patrick Jones says:


    Every time I come on to Wings, I am met with another one of your childish, immature rants.

    Your input of any worth is zero.

    You stand there like a sentry ready to jump down the throat of anyone who doesn’t come up to standard.

    If I were you I would start hanging around the telly tubbies website, ideal for your mindset.

    You’ll probably find that you are out of your depth, even on that website.

  287. Arch Stanton says:


    Merci je l’ai trouvé. Un peu trop profond pour moi.

  288. ben madigan says:

    “election bribes from Nicola”

    They remind me of Corbyn’s manifesto for the last General Election.

    Look how that ended!

  289. Fergus says:


    What do you mean by, Dr Kerr being on board with Wings?

  290. Stephen P says:

    TheSNPLeftMe says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:45 pm
    Stephen P

    Have you even looked at the constituencies!
    You could change 4 Tories / 3 Labour to 3 Tories/ 4 Labour or let in a LibDem.

    Is this the cunning Unionist Troll sell worked out at HQ?


    No, it’s basic arithmetic. The electoral system is self balancing. More constituency seats means less list seats for any party.

    Who picks up the spare list seat is obviously dependent on the votes cast and divisors but if Alba only manage say 6 – 10% of the vote it increases their chances of a seat. Or a second seat if the vote is higher.

    The SNP 1 strategy is intended to promote a positive response to Alba on the list from SNP voters. If this works it is potentially a good strategy. But with the SNP leadership so publically undermining it at every turn it may turn out badly for Alba but only serve to shore up the SNP constituency vote.

    It may actually increase the Green vote as woke SNP1/2 voters decide to transfer list votes to them.
    Ultimately, Alba is mainly dependent on SNP list vote transfer for it’s vote which is why we have the positive SNP1 message. However,it’s a calculation which is not without danger. If you can’t see that then you are not being objective.

    The chances of a seismic drop in the SNP constituency vote is extremely remote. Very few SNP seats are marginal. For instance my constituency would require a 25% swing to Labour. That’s not happening so I’m confident that my vote won’t matter. But it does matter to me that I don’t endorse the SNP.

    The unionist troll tropes don’t add anything to the debate.

  291. Alf Baird says:

    Mia @ 8:14 pm

    “If Scotland exercises its right to dissolve the treaty of union, which is an international treaty, there is nothing for the international community to say about it.”

    This would appear to be correct. The international community must respect national sovereignty, decisions of sovereign peoples and their national representatives to enter into or to end treaties, and international law in this regard.

    The UK is merely a treaty-based alliance between sovereign kingdoms. Any signatory party to such a treaty-based alliance may withdraw from such an arrangement, much as we saw in the case of Brexit.

    The Scots are a sovereign people and nation, this is well established and must be respected.

    A majority of Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives therefore hold Scotland’s political sovereignty at any given time, and may therefore enter into or end treaties on behalf of the sovereign Scottish people.

    #Supermajority = legitimises the power to negotiate Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK treaty-based alliance

  292. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Hi Patrick Jones

    You don’t seem to be paying attention.

    I AM

  293. Stephen says:

    Arch Stanton
    No you’re too modest!
    It’s just about the importance of focusing on the truth rather than the court of public opinion.
    Granted though, rhetoric is important to get the message across.
    I thought it was germane to your point regarding the excessively verbose.

  294. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Patrick will revert to type soon.

  295. ben madigan says:

    @ Gone right handed at 8:14 pm:

    “After all, if you become independent and join the EU all that guff about Gaelic will be pretty redundant.”

    All that guff about Gaelic won’t be redundant. Gaelic is one of the official languages of the EU, thanks to Ireland and has been since 2007,foreign%20ministers%20meeting%20in%20Luxembourg.

  296. Tannadice Boy says:

    Alf Baird 8:34pm
    You must know the wee sma folk came at the end of the Bannockburn battle. It made know difference to their lives or indeed the actual battle. Everytime someone mentions Fanon I recoil, violence has never been the answer. I have thought about that but my personal experience prevents me from treating this action seriously. We just have to endure the SNP devolutionists for another 5 years.

  297. Fergus says:

    Sturgeon looks like an auld washed up Alky.

    Add that to her ever growing list of faults.

    Sturgeon is a loser, and only a loser would vote for her Party on 6th May.

    Let’s hope May 6th is the last time she has anything to do with the Scottish Parliament in any meaningful way.

    I think she’s at the screaming skull stages. Where she arrives home at Bute House, locks the door behind her, gets pissed out of her head, attacks wee Pete with her empty bottle, blaming him for it all going tits up, then runs about naked pilling her hair out, before collapsing into a corner sucking her thumb.

    Apart from that, she’s doing just fine.

  298. Republicofscotland says:

    Kiwilassie @7.08pm.

    Thanks for the link Kiwilassie, though Bob and Brian both posters in here posted an archived link earlier, still its the thought that counts.

  299. Patrick Jones says:

    Fergus 9.11

    Brilliant description of Scotland’s First Minister.

    Good to know we are in safe hands. LoL.

  300. Gone right handed says:

    @ben madigan
    Yeah. Didn’t the Irish MEPs have to beg English translations of the original draft of the Brexit agreement because they couldn’t read the ones in their ‘own’ language?

    Gloves off pal. Gaelic is a weekend hobby. This is the 21st century, not the 10th.

  301. Red says:

    John Martini says:
    18 April, 2021 at 7:50 pm
    Scotland to expand post colonial studies to teach children about the 40 scottish slave owners who would have described themselves as North British.


    “We will create a new programme of anti-racist education in schools, including support for teachers’ professional development, allowing every school to access high-quality anti-racist education.

    “Anti-racist” is one of those bizarro world woke codewords that seems reasonable until you look closely and find out it means the opposite of what it literally says. See also: “inclusion” and “progressive”.

    Clare Adamson, the SNP candidate for Motherwell and Wishaw told The Telegraph: “The SNP is committed to strengthening education for our young people and recognising the importance of having equality and human rights embedded in our education.

    “It is not the case that teaching on racism should be even-handed. Racism is wrong and our schools should say so.”

    Clare Adamson stunningly and bravely standing up to the powerful pro-racist lobby to say racism… is bad. A Nobel Prize must surely be on the cards, and perhaps the Pope might be interested in a beatification?

    I mean, I agree, but the most racist thing I’ve ever seen in Scottish public life was last year when the SNP Justice Minister contemptuously denounced various Scottish institutions for being “white”. Which would be grounds for his arrest and imprisonment under his own Hate Crimes Bill if laws were still applied fairly and impartially (lol) in Scotland.

    Anyway, between this and the disgusting gender stuff, you get the general idea of where this is heading. Education standards are in freefall, but that doesn’t matter to the regime because they’re not interested in producing critical thinkers with the confidence to draw their own conclusions. They’re hoping to raise a generation of intellectually stunted drones who might just be dumb enough to fall for bland platitudes like “Hope”.

  302. Hatuey says:

    Alf, I sincerely wish I didn’t need to point out contradictions like this;

    “The Scots are a sovereign people and nation, this is well established and must be respected…. A majority of Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives…”

    Naturally, a party can have a majority of seats / MPs and MSPs without achieving a majority in the popular vote. That happens all the time, as you are aware.

    It follows that your argument, which hinges on the ultimate sovereignty of the people, could, and would, be used to argue against any Declaration of Independence or any such development along those lines where no such majority of the sovereign people existed.

    I wish it were otherwise.

  303. Mikey d says:

    Just watching guy martins battle of britain on ch4. 9pm. Old pre war black and white map of uk shown depicting the word ENGLAND from london to glasgow. I thought WTF.

  304. Gone right handed says:


    Respect pal.

  305. merganser says:

    The reason why NS looks so bad and talks so mad is because the game will soon be up. It’s because of what she and others tried to do To Alex Salmond. It didn’t work, and her worst nightmare is now upon her: having to face him in the Scottish Parliament.

    She won’t be able to face him or be in the same room as him never mind work with him after what she tried to do.

    If Alex is elected then she will go – and put the blame on Alex for her departure, and probably pretend that her action is in support of the Alphabetty ladies.

    If Alex is not elected, the forthcoming legal action will achieve the same result when all the facts come out.

    The police inquiry into the leak to the paper, if good enough, is the third reason why she may go, but this is the most unlikely way. Similarly any inquiry into the woven £600,000.

    She is fighting on many fronts, has become bitter and deluded at the prospect of having to go at a time not of her choosing, hence the way she now looks and acts.

    The game is up. It’s just a matter of time.

  306. Republicofscotland says:

    An extract from a speech by Alex Salmond leader of the ALBA party prior to the party’s manifesto launch this Wednesday.

    Scotland’s Place in the World.

  307. kapelmeister says:

    SPOAT* when you VOTE!

    *Spoiled Paper One, Alba Two.

  308. ben madigan says:

    @ Gone right handed at 9:19 pm
    “Yeah. Didn’t the Irish MEPs have to beg English translations of the original draft of the Brexit agreement because they couldn’t read the ones in their ‘own’ language?”

    Citation, please!

    “Gloves off pal. Gaelic is a weekend hobby. This is the 21st century, not the 10th”.

    In the 21st century Gaelic, one of the oldest languages in Europe, is still being spoken in Europe’s parliament – after centuries of suppression by the English. That has to be a good example of protecting and encouraging minority cultures.

    If Scotland gains her independence and decides to join the EU, any native Gàidhlig speaker who is elected MEP will have his/her culture recognized as an integral part of the EU and will be free to express his/her thoughts and views in their own language.

  309. Wally Jumblatt says:

    You cant have a new currency on day 1!
    Currency manipulation is the biggest game in town.
    They crash the Poond on day 2, and buy up every asset in Scotland for groats. That’s how it works.
    And long before that, ownership of every Scottish asset, building, football team, whisky bond or gallon of oil, would have been either transferred down south or abroad.
    We would be busy before we started, all imports would cost a bomb, but luckily our exports would be a bargain and tourism would boom.

    Now has Kranky set up the business atmosphere in the country to export high quality goods from local materials. Of course not.
    Has she set up the tourism industry to cater for all these foreign visitors. No she has not.
    Has she set up the further education system with super-high standards to encourage international standards? Has she buggery.
    Has she raised the education standards of all kids to be ready to take on the world? Not a chance matey.
    She has been a self-promoting, miserable disaster for Scotland, doesn’t even give us a laugh.
    Throw every one of her cronies out, and only hang on to the few who aren’t cowardly sycophants. -and start afresh.

  310. msdidi says:

    No , no just no. I can’t do SNP1. I’ve been swithering/undecided. But this message from Nicola…out for independence has made up my mind.

  311. msdidi says:

    She’s even wearing the red outfit again – against the blue and white Saltire. Who told her it was a good look. Makes me think of “if its got a Jack – put it back”!

  312. kapelmeister says:

    msdidi @10:01 pm

    Thanks for the link. Sturgeon told a lie in the first sentence. She said her chosen pronouns are She and Her. When we know her preferred pronouns are Me and Me.

  313. Andy Ellis says:

    @ben madigan 9.59 am

    I’ve never understood the anti-Gaelic hostility so many folk seem to harbour, sadly on both pro and anti indy sides of the argument. As a lowlander with no real family connections to the Scottish Highlands (maybe some distant Donegal and Kerry ancestry way back for a Celtic connection) it’s always been my view that all minority languages should be cherished, promoted and protected just as rare species should be protected.

    I started learning Scots Gaelic on Duolingo: I find it fascinating, beautiful and pretty damn hard in comparison with German, French or Italian. I’ll never understand why so many folk appear triggered by Gaelic signage, or spending to promote the language. Nutters one and all I reckon.

  314. Mikey d says:

    Ben madigan. Kultur to people like ‘ gone right handed’ probably means flying the fleg, twirling the baton and beating the lambeg drum.

  315. Doug says:

    Meanwhile Martin Keatings continues bravely in his case “The Scottish People Vs The UK Government on Indyref2”

    While we talk he acts. Sometime soon each of us will have to act if we truly want independence. This election, and its result, will have profound implications for all of us.

    Hold your nose, and anything else which helps, and vote SNP in the constituency [hopefully for the last time] and vote Alba in all but the south in the List vote.

    Let’s get the result which embarrasses the SNP leadership into forcefully acting for independence. If there’s no pro-indy majority in May there will be no hope of independence for decades to come. There will just be talk.

  316. Mikey d says:

    Andy ellis, exactly , each to their own.

  317. Hugh Jarse says:

    D’accord Dr Kerr.
    A fair summary of the problem.
    Leadership failure.

  318. Mitchell says:


    I can also post neverending meaningless shite. LoL

    “Everybody seems to listen to audiobooks these days. As a recent marketing campaign put it, “Listening is the new reading.”1 What was once a niche entertainment has grown into a billion-dollar industry thanks to the emergence of digital media, smartphones, and an online marketplace that makes it simple to download just about any title you want. Listening to a book is not the hassle it once was. (Take it from someone who remembers fumbling with cassette tapes while trying to steer a car.) The mainstreaming of audiobooks has been one of the twenty-first-century publishing industry’s greatest success stories.

    That success would have come as no surprise to the audiobook’s pioneers, who had always imagined a future in which audiences would read books with their ears instead of their eyes. Fans have been predicting the audiobook’s ascendance ever since it became possible to record books. But when exactly was that? The audiobook’s origins can be traced back further than most people realize. Some historians credit Books on Tape, Recorded Books, and other mail-order libraries that arose in the 1970s to entertain commuters stuck in traffic. Others point toward the 1950s, when Caedmon Records released an album featuring the Welsh poet Dylan Thomas reading his beloved tale “A Child’s Christmas in Wales.” Still others link the audiobook’s origins to discs made by the Library of Congress in 1934 for people who were blind and partially sighted. But the audiobook’s origins predate the twentieth century. In fact, the audiobook turns out to be as old as sound-recording technology itself.

    There was no way to preserve sounds before the nineteenth century. Speeches, songs, and soliloquies all vanished moments after leaving the lips. That situation changed in 1877, when Thomas Edison began working on a machine that could mechanically reproduce the human voice. Edison’s team successfully assembled a device on which Edison recorded “Mary Had a Little Lamb,” a nursery rhyme that would become the first words ever spoken by the phonograph.2 Depending on how you define the term, Edison’s inaugural recording of verse might be considered the world’s first audiobook.

    Thomas Edison reciting “Mary Had a Little Lamb” on 12 August 1927 to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the invention of the phonograph. The original 1877 recording was no longer extant. Courtesy National Park Service.

    The spoken word featured prominently at public demonstrations of Edison’s tinfoil phonograph throughout the United States and Europe. Although no recordings were made of these exhibitions, press reports enable us to reconstruct what took place.3 A typical demonstration began with an explanation of how the machine worked, followed by displays of recording and playback. The program opened with a greeting from the phonograph (“The phonograph presents its compliments to the audience”) before moving on to recitations, songs, music, and random noises. Members of the audience were sometimes given a chance to speak into the phonograph before leaving with torn-off slips from the tinfoil recording sheet as souvenirs.

    “New Jersey.—Professor Edison exhibiting the phonograph to visitors, at his laboratory, Menlo Park.” From Frank Leslie’s Illustrated Newspaper, 30 March 1878.
    A witness to one of the initial phonograph demonstrations posed the question on every reader’s mind: “Are we to have a new kind of books?”4 Unfortunately, that wish was years ahead of the technology. There was little hope of recording an entire novel in 1878 since tinfoil cylinders could only play for a few minutes and were extremely difficult to reproduce.5 The first recordings that might be thought of as literary were not made until a decade later, when Edison’s improved phonograph made it possible to record longer works. Alfred Tennyson and Robert Browning were both recorded reading their poems, but full-length books would have to wait until the 1930s.6 It would be a mistake, however, to think that the phonograph’s limitations in its own time constrained speculation about its future. Even if the inaugural recordings consisted of nursery rhymes and snippets of verse, the advent of sound-recording technology made it possible to conceive of recorded books fifty years in advance of one actually being made.

    Wax cylinder recording of Alfred Tennyson reading “The Charge of the Light Brigade” in 1890.

    Long before the phonograph’s invention, there was already a rich tradition of speculating about how new forms of technology would affect reading habits. The fantasy of a mechanical talking book predated sound-recording technology by at least two centuries. Cyrano de Bergerac’s Histoire comique en voyage dans la lune, a seventeenth-century tale about a rocket trip to the moon, includes an eyewitness report of a “Book made wholly for the Ears and not the Eyes” that hangs from the auditor’s ears like a pair of pendants.7
    The press began to speculate about the impact sound recording would have on the book even before the phonograph’s completion. The New York Times used an unlikely analogy to explain the invention to an audience unfamiliar with how the technology worked: the preservation of speech on tinfoil was comparable to that of wine by the bottle. When it comes to sound, the paper explained, the phonograph “bottles it up” for future use. The editors went on to make the following tongue-in-cheek prediction about the phonograph’s impact on the novel:

    Why should we print a speech when it can be bottled, and why should we learn to read when, if some skillful elocutionist merely repeats one of “George Eliot’s” novels aloud in the presence of a phonograph, we can subsequently listen to it without taking the slightest trouble? We shall be able to buy Dickens and Thackeray by the single bottle or by the dozen, and rural families can lay in a hogshead of “Timothy Titcomb” every Fall for consumption during the Winter. Instead of libraries filled with combustible books, we shall have vast storehouses of bottled authors, and though students in college may be required to learn the use of books, just as they now learn the dead languages, they will not be expected to make any practical use of the study.8

    From books to bottles: it was an audacious claim to make about a machine that had yet to utter a word. The humor magazine Punch responded to the conceit with a cartoon showing a cellar full of bottled opera to be uncorked on special occasions.

    Cellar full of bottled music. From Punch’s Almanack for 1878, 14 December 1877.
    It has often been pointed out that Edison failed to grasp the phonograph’s entertainment potential owing to his interest in developing it as a dictation device for use by businesses. But Edison did in fact identify other uses for it: playing music, writing letters, teaching elocution, recording courtroom testimony, and making clocks that announced the time. He also proposed using the machine to make “phonographic books”:

    Books may be read by the charitably-inclined professional reader, or by such readers especially employed for that purpose, and the record of [each] book used in the asylums of the blind, hospitals, the sick-chamber, or even with great profit and amusement by the lady or gentleman whose eyes and hands may be otherwise employed; or, again, because of the greater enjoyment to be had from a book when read by an elocutionist than when read by the average reader.9

    One advantage to using the phonograph as a reading machine was its accessibility to a blind readership; tactile alphabets for people with vision impairments required training, whereas anyone could listen to a book, including the many blind people who could not read braille. But it is important to note that Edison never imagined recorded books to be for blind people alone. From the outset, the hypothetical audience for recorded books reached beyond those with disabilities to “the average reader” lacking either the time, or perhaps the inclination, to hold a book. Crucially, Edison’s statement is among the first made by the recorded book industry to characterize reading as a secondary activity intended to accompany other pursuits.

    Efforts to promote the phonograph as an improved version of the book express how conventional the initial attempts were to figure out what to do with the machine. Despite calls for a new kind of book, the books proposed in these accounts adhered closely to traditional formats. Most people used the phonograph to record existing print genres (novels, lectures, sermons, letters, advertisements) instead of new forms of speech devised specifically for it. As Marshall McLuhan famously pointed out, new media take their content from the media they replace.10 In fact, few attempts were made to produce an art form distinct from print until the following century. Far more enticing was the prospect of listening to established authors like Dickens.
    Dickens’s reputation as a performer made him a popular choice with which to illustrate the phonograph’s value as a reading machine. Discussions of sound recording frequently cited Dickens’s name despite the inconvenient fact that the phonograph was incapable of recording his novels since the standard cylinder had a maximum playing time of a little over three minutes. (This did not dissuade Edison from memorably boasting in 1888 that he could record Nicholas Nickleby in its entirety on four eight-inch cylinders.)11 The author was nonetheless a shrewd choice since the name of Dickens was shorthand for the novel itself. Plus, he was among the most theatrical of novelists, famed for his reading tours in the United States and Britain.12 At a time when the technical limitations of the phonograph prevented the recitation of more than a few lines of verse, it made sense to pitch the conversation toward the ideal rather than the disappointing reality.

    Charles Dickens photographed by Herbert Watkins, St. Martin’s Hall, London, 29 April 1858. The year marked the beginning of Dickens’s fame as a public reader of his own works.
    Edison intended to capitalize on the demand for recorded books by opening a publishing house in New York. But first it was necessary to domesticate the phonograph if it was ever to become a household consumer good. A key marketing strategy through which the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company ushered in the new era of recorded sound was by linking it to older forms of entertainment that had preceded the phonograph. The use of nostalgia to promote the technology diverted attention away from the potential threat it posed to traditions of reading aloud. This is apparent in a Daily Graphic cartoon portraying Edison’s idealized domestic scene alongside the caption, “The phonograph at home reading out a novel.” The scene is reminiscent of the archetypal Victorian image of family entertainment, with the crucial substitution of the phonograph for family members, who no longer needed to serve as “human audiobooks” now that a machine could do the reading for them.13

    “The phonograph at home reading out a novel.” Detail from illustration accompanying “The Papa of the Phonograph,” Daily Graphic (New York), 2 April 1878.
    Edison’s publishing house never managed to record a novel. Still, the press looked ahead to an environment unimpeded by technological limitations. Nearly everyone who responded to Edison’s overambitious claims foresaw a time when it would be viable to record entire books—even Dickens’s. In the words of one starry-eyed journalist, “The library of the future will be one which any man can carry under his arm.”14 Not a bad prediction for 1878.

    The long gap between the phonograph’s debut and the first literary recordings of note did little to dampen people’s optimism. An eccentric essay written in 1883 by University of Minnesota professor Evert Nymanover, for instance, called for printed books to be replaced by “whispering machines” lodged in people’s hats. Such contraptions would allow them to continue reading while doing other activities: “Everyone while sitting in the cars, walking in the streets, reclining on beds and sofas, could be perpetually listening to Adam Smith’s moral sentiments, Draper’s intellectual development, etc., and yet be at the same time talking, resting, working at a carpenter’s bench, dressing, promenading, practicing finger-exercises on the piano, or other instruments, and so forth.”15 Nymanover’s vision reveals lofty expectations for a format that has since come to be associated with distraction. What might sound perfectly reasonable to a modern audience acquainted with portable listening devices such as iPods and smartphones, however, sounded far-fetched to Nymanover’s contemporaries.
    Nothing more was heard about whispering machines until 1885, when R. Balmer of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France published an essay in defense of them. While acknowledging the original proposal’s eccentricity, Balmer defended its core idea: the development of a portable mechanism for reading aloud. Phonographs could be used to imprint entire books on miniature metal cylinders embedded inside an automaton, he insisted, then inserted into a person’s hat and connected to the ear by wires. The tiny reading machine represented what he called the “metal automatic book of the future.”16 Nearly a century ahead of the Walkman, the portable device promised to entertain urban commuters who were unable to read in crowded public spaces. One magazine observed that “a man might take a walk along a busy street, and have the book of the season read to him.”17

    Nymanover’s device represented the first of a sequence of hypothetical reading machines proposed over the next quarter century by disability activists, engineers, futurists, utopianists, and, of course, novelists. Utopian writers paid especially close attention to mechanized forms of reading since it was difficult to imagine an ideal society in which books did not play a prominent role. Edward Bellamy was one such writer to rethink the book in the context of new sound-recording technologies. Bellamy’s best-known work, Looking Backward: 2000–1887, a science fiction novel about the transformation of the United States into a socialist utopia, has oddly little to say about the book. But he returned to the topic a year later in the short story “With the Eyes Shut,” a radical rethinking of the book written after the author attended a phonograph demonstration. For Bellamy, the phonograph raised the question: Why go through the trouble of sounding out the words on the page when you could hear them read aloud?

    “With the Eyes Shut” reflects Bellamy’s interest in harnessing technology to relieve the burdens of labor at a time when the United States was becoming an increasingly industrialized nation.18 Like its predecessor, the framed narrative begins with a man who wakes up in a futuristic society transformed by technology. That society’s citizens have little need to read for themselves since they are read to by an “indispensable,” Bellamy’s term for the portable phonographic device used to play spoken word recordings of everything from letters to literature.19 (The name suggests that our dependency on technology was apparent even in its utopian representations.) The premise captures the enthusiasm readers felt toward the ease of listening to recorded books. In other words, a crucial part of their appeal was the very passivity for which audiobooks are criticized today.

    We see this in the story’s first scene, which involves an unnamed narrator who listens to “phonographed books” using a “two-pronged ear-trumpet” plugged into the railway carriage. Here’s how Bellamy’s narrator describes the pleasures of reading with the eyes shut:

    A good story is highly entertaining even when we have to get at it by the roundabout means of spelling out the signs that stand for the words, and imagining them uttered, and then imagining what they would mean if uttered. What then shall be said of the delight of sitting at one’s ease, with closed eyes, listening to the same story poured into one’s ears in the strong, sweet, musical tones of a perfect mistress of the art of story-telling, and of the expression and excitation by means of the voice of every emotion?20

    Whereas modern critics have singled out “seduction” as the principal hazard of listening to recorded books, Bellamy welcomed being seduced. And yet the passage’s erotic language does anticipate the way the technology would be received over the next century by intimating the potential danger in having a book read to you.21 The most enduring critique of the recorded book turned out to be less that it is an ineffective way of delivering the text than that it is too powerful.

    Utopian fantasies of a mechanical reading machine reflect the era’s optimism toward uninterrupted scientific progress. In this context, the printed book’s evolution into a new format was welcomed along with other technological advances meant to improve people’s quality of life. The fin-de-siècle French futurists Octave Uzanne and Albert Robida followed Bellamy’s lead in imagining how new media would remake the book. In 1894, their tale “The End of Books” posed a conventional science fiction question: What would society look like a hundred years from now? A group of intellectuals who meet in London to address the question foresee the replacement of the book as a bound object made of paper and ink by the machinery of a post-Gutenberg age. As the narrator concludes, “Phonography will probably be the destruction of printing.”22
    In the tale’s imagined future, books continue to circulate through audiovisual media. The reading machine envisioned by Uzanne and Robida consists of a miniature phonograph strapped to a person’s shoulder and connected to the ears by a set of flexible tubes—an uncanny harbinger of the modern-day Walkman. By means of wide distribution channels and a variety of phonographic machinery, the spoken word was to reach a mass audience via free listening stations in public squares, vending machines selling Dickens recordings for a nickel, and even a Pullman Circulating Library for the entertainment of railway passengers. Modern-day troubadours could promote their phonographic books by taking them from one apartment building to the next, where residents could listen through elongated tubes stretching up to their windowsills. And, more than a century before the existence of streaming service providers, consumers could be seen subscribing to a bibliothèque universelle phonographique (“universal phonographic library”) capable of playing novels, poetry, history, and philosophy in the comfort of one’s home.

    From Octave Uzanne and Albert Robida, “La Fin des livres,” in Contes pour les bibliophiles (Paris: Quantin, 1895). Courtesy Houghton Library, Harvard University.
    We are now living in the sonic future imagined by the audiobook pioneers of the nineteenth century. Digital media have made recorded books even more accessible than Uzanne and his contemporaries predicted. Whereas Edison once dreamed of being able to play an entire Dickens novel, today’s “universal phonographic library” fits on a smartphone. Writers who used the advent of sound-recording technology as an opportunity to speculate about what form books might take in the future were right to insist that recorded ones were inevitable. But predictions of “the end of books” were premature since printed books hardly disappeared after audiobooks became a reality. People continue to read books on paper or on screens, even though digital audiobooks are now a viable alternative. In fact, some readers still view the format with skepticism, calling into question whether listening to books requires the same degree of concentration, imagination, and effort as reading them—in short, whether “listening” counts as “reading” at all.23 Technological progress by itself is not enough to win over book lovers. As we now know, the audiobook revolution of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries would also require a change in attitudes toward what it means to read a book in the first place.

  319. Lothianlad says:

    What was the incident about an MP acting inappropriately to a staffer in a london bar? Any details? Who and where?

  320. Robert Graham says:

    Eh the short novel posted @ 10:14

    I wonder if anyone actually read it ?

    Just asking like

  321. Hatuey says:

    msdidi, that video is truly disturbing.

    She really is weird.

  322. msdidi says:

    Giving a wee shout to the crowdfunder for the group of ALBA candidates in my area. Please give something to help if you can Let’s get them all elected.

  323. Mitchell says:

    Robert Graham. 10.23

    It was a sarcastic send up of what Mia and Breeks put us through.


    Be Alert, as the Rev would say.

  324. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Mitchell 10:14pm
    You are correct. Incoherent shite means nothing. Mia and Breeks have put up posts worthy of reading. I scrolled past all of yours. At least Cam B Brodie had some academic authenticity. Another SNP spoiler. We are getting used to your insecurity.

  325. dan macaulay says:

    my immediate family will deliver

    6 first votes SNP
    6 regional list votes ALBA

  326. kapelmeister says:

    Doug @10:11 pm

    “If there’s no pro-indy majority in May there will be no hope of independence for decades to come”.

    You’ve got an almighty confidence in your long-range forecasting fella.

    There won’t be a pro-indy majority in the new parliament for the simple and fucking awful reason that most of Sturgeon’s MSPs will be either woke fanatics or pliant troughers and, like their boss, will not be motivated to start the serious business of getting independence.

    There is minimal chance of a pro-union majority.

    So the supermajority for independence is, in this election, a chimera. Even if there was one arithmetically it would not be real, just notional.

    If the SNP hoover up all the constituency seats then it means more unionist list seats and most likely fewer for Alba. Securing a foothold for Alba is what is important. A supermajority for indy which Sturgeon would have no desire to use is a false prize. Every seat for Alba is golden.

    Spoil 1 Alba 2.

  327. Ivan bishop says:

    Well written. Level headed. Now, if only the SNP NEC cared.

  328. boris says:

    lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) equality and human rights charity.

    Its influence over SNP policies and many areas of Scottish society is absolute. Political Party’s will be expected to conform to the LGBTI agenda or face oblivion at the ballot box. But the electorate may not subscribe to the changes without consultation of which there has been very little, to date. People are afraid of change and this might well be reflected in the way in which they cast their votes on 6 May 2021.

    The network is monitoring the commitment of political parties in Scotland to social and changes in the laws of Scotland advocated by the network and has reported the applicable agenda for change

  329. Alf Baird says:

    Tannadice Boy @ 9:07 pm

    “Everytime someone mentions Fanon I recoil”

    Decolonisation (i.e. independence) is what it is.

  330. John D says:

    Great OP
    Some of the btl has been the most indigestible I have read here , and says something. Archie is just spouting the same old , uniquely too daft to run a country trope garnished with a bit of private school foreign language. The right handed one ! Well pardon me Rev , but such a pair of Votzen have I rarely encountered *.

    *actually no . I live in one of the British Supremacy finishing school centres and encounter these cunts on a daily basis. From when they arrive out of conditioning school to be polished and sent out to spread the perfidious word.

    How many more will be obligated to try and infect Wings OS ? Fortunately quality not quantity is what they need but obvs don’t have. Which is nice .

    So to you UKers, Va t’en.

  331. Alf Baird says:

    Hatuey 9:30 pm

    “It follows that your argument, which hinges on the ultimate sovereignty of the people, could, and would, be used to argue against any Declaration of Independence or any such development along those lines where no such majority of the sovereign people existed.”

    A sovereign people/nation elect sovereign political representatives to look after their sovereign interests. The national representatives may vote and decide on national matters as they wish, that is what they are elected for. Moreover, a sovereign people/nation are already independent through being sovereign; such a sovereign people/nation do not therefore need to ‘declare’ their independence to anyone. Sovereignty is independence.

  332. John D says:

    I am not gonna get into discussions about British being a thing centuries before the English were declared undesirable and booted from their northern German homeland.

  333. Robert Graham says:

    Question for the brains on here

    Why would this version of the SNP go out of their way to constantly rubbish ALBA ? ,

    Princess stupid operating under the name of Sturgeon has been going out of her way to rubbish the jury’s verdict and dispute that she personally cost the Scottish taxpayers millions of pounds on a failed vindictive criminal prosecution against one man.

    Rather than continuing to press ALEX SALMOND to apologise for something he was found innocent of and for having the bad manners in not allowing himself to be being jailed .

    Maybe it’s time the media pressed her to explain the catastrophic failure of her personally and her government Collectively who are up to their necks in black ink that has stopped the truth being laid before the Scottish electorate ,tanker loads of black ink were delivered to the Scottish government so much so that there was a shortage and supplies are only just returning to normal.

    It’s her who should be apologising ,Princess Nicola but she can’t can she because if she did it would mean she lied , she lied about her involvement , she lied about forgetting key dates about key unrecorded meetings it started with her legal career and has continued unchecked ever since .

    One thing is certain she was very convincing she managed to fool a whole lot of people but the game is up now we will see the vengeful spiteful spitting claws coming out to protect Princess Nicola

  334. Alf Baird says:

    ben madigan @ 9:59 pm

    “If Scotland gains her independence and decides to join the EU, any native Gàidhlig speaker who is elected MEP will have his/her culture recognized as an integral part of the EU and will be free to express his/her thoughts and views in their own language.”

    An sae shuid ony Scots langage speiker hiv oor Scottish cultur kent an respectit an aw!

    The Scottish national identity of today is arguably based as much if not more on the ancient Scots language and its culture, than Gaelic. It is primarily the Scots language and related culture which aye gives most of us Scots our national consciousness, without which there can be no motivation for national independence.

  335. cynicalHighlander says:

    @ Michell

    Break it down into dechipheral chunks as it is meaningless shit otherwise no matter its content

  336. ben madigan says:

    @Alf Baird at 11:38 pm who mentioned “shuid ony Scots langage speiker hiv oor Scottish cultur kent an respectit an aw!”

    Actually Alf i did think of the Scots language as I was writing but didn’t mention it as it didn’t fit in with what I was saying about Gaelic.

    If Scotland gains her independence and decides to join the EU, then the Scots language will need to be accorded the status of official language of Scotland (like Gaelic in Ireland) and some work will have to be done within the EU committee for minority languages to have it recognized as an official EU language. None of this is impossible if the Scots want it.

  337. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Alf Baird 11:12pm
    So what are you saying?. You quote Fanon but don’t support his methods? Or it’s OK as long as someone else is doing the fighting and the dying?. You wouldn’t know the definition of Independence. It’s the right to ignore agent provocateurs like yourself. That won’t do the fighting or dying yourself. Stop this Fanon shite. We will get there in the end without people dying.

  338. ben madigan says:

    @ Andy Ellis
    Nice to hear how you’re whiling away the lockdown hours!I am no irish speaker and was thinking of doing the same for irish gaelic!

    and @ Mikey d Thanks for the heads up on Kultur!

  339. Red says:

    Alf Baird – Sartre (and Fanon) cautions that the independence movement, after initial success loses momentum, and if it is to start again it “must throw their bourgeoisie overboard” and with it “the cult of the leader” who, in Fanon’s words makes their own “accommodation with colonialism” and moves “out of rhythm” with the mass of the people.

    I’m scratching my head trying to work out what this means.

    I think there’s a way we can be trapped in amber by language and concepts, long after the world has moved on, and 60’s radical academic guffery about postcolonialism and reheated 19th century Marxian animosity towards the bourgeoisie (a class that for all intents no longer exists) are good examples of that.

    Besides, Sartre was a googly-eyed pervert who seemed to have never met a genocidal dictator he didn’t immediately fellate in print, though he himself was a coward whose “resistance” to the Nazi occupation of his country amounted to pretending not to know directions to places in Paris when Wehrmacht soldiers asked him.

    So, not sure why we should want his advice.

    Mibbe dead French drug addicts aren’t going to be much help to us in the middle of the 21st century after all. Though I remain an admirer of the philosophy of Plastic Bertrand.

  340. Terry says:

    Anybody else ashamed of the snp politicians we campaigned for who are now keeping shtoom? They must know more than us but with some notable exceptions they either say nothing or attack Alex. Disgraceful to their former leader. What a bunch of fannies.

  341. Morag says:


    What do you mean by, Dr Kerr being on board with Wings?

    Agreeing to have his article published on Wings. Which is a nice change from “friends” of mine badmouthing Stu at every possible turn, trawling the comments for something that can be misrepresented as a threat of violence, reporting this to the police, then phoning up a unionist journalist to tell him Wings is being investigated by the police for threatening violence.

    That’s what I mean.

  342. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Ah, but, Plastic Bertrand was plagiarising Elton Motello!

    His single came out a year previously. Plastic Bertrand used the same backing track. That’s a fact!

    (Read the notes under the second list.)

  343. Al-Stuart says:


    Thanks for inviting the good doctor.

    Triaging through the 77er BTL excrement covered minefield with sniper Trolls Arch Stankturd, Wee Manky and Fungus Fergus aka RockKcor. AndyWang et al., searching for the golden nuggets amongst so much dross.

    Is it possible to have a wee bit of help please Stu., on a genuine debate point?

    Many folk are struggling a lot with SNP1. Understandable as some of the SNP Listers are the utter enemy and voting for them is like eating a vomit covered hedgehog or reading a post from @shocked.

    Stu., have you come across and research on demographics that would enable some of us to vote…

    SNP = 0 (Spoil)
    Alba = 2

    This is obviously a lot more palatable than…

    SNP = 1
    Alba = 2

    Leaving aside the Trolls and Mist001 idiot asking stupid questions he knows the answer to, the majority of folk understand Alex Salmond’s thesis of SNP1 providing the D’Hondt counterbalance of 6 to 20 x ALBA MSP.

    The question is: Has any research been done where it is safe to vote SNP = 0 and NOT compromise the ability of Alba to secure D’Hondt List seats in CERTAIN areas?.

    If there was some form of analysis so that a tranche of us could tell the Sturgeonite McWokeists and Pension Pete types to furk right orf, that would be a relief for many. Thanks big man.

  344. Al-Stuart says:

    One of the BEST POSTS on this thread. Well worth being reminded how and why the British Establishment are spending so much on keeping their Scotch Colony under the devolution-minimum hand of Dame Nicola Strychnine of Balmoral de la Draghorny.


    Confused says:
    18 April, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    Remember folks, trolls also win when they waste your time.

    – their posts, often too many, of no substance, will “slide” good posts way upthread, where people will miss them

    – new handle, lots of posting; reasonable at first, then arsey later on – diverting the discourse

    – always asking questions that – have been answered many times, can be looked up, and when they get an answer, they go on to something else, or makeup bullshit hypotheticals

    – if the Isle of Wight goes independent after the breakup of the UK, getting rich by charging transit fees for Le Manche.

  345. Kcor says:

    Well, at least we still have a few more weeks of Wings Over Scotland to moan about Sturgeon and the SNP,whom we will soon re-elect, and then we will have to find another blog to moan about Sturgeon and the SNP for another five years.

  346. Kcor says:

    Fishy Wullie says,

    “Great post Malcolm I wish there more like you in the party,”

    Aren’t there already more than enough eunuchs in the party?

  347. Kcor says:

    Mitchell says,


    I can also post neverending meaningless shite. LoL”


  348. Hatuey says:

    Alf, again; “ a sovereign people/nation are already independent through being sovereign; such a sovereign people/nation do not therefore need to ‘declare’ their independence to anyone. Sovereignty is independence.”

    Now, I’ll concede right away that that reads well. But let’s not be fooled by simplifications that happen to roll off our tongues.

    If the majority of voters vote for parties that are not pro-independence, i.e. 51% of them, then, regardless of the number of MPs or MSPs either side racks up, a Declaration of Independence or any such action would be tantamount to a coup.

    You can’t say the people are sovereign when they vote for the things you want; then say Parliament is sovereign when they don’t.

  349. Kcor says:

    Sarwar is the sort of Labour MSP that Tory voters could feel very comfortable backing, and the seat also has a sizeable Asian community. In the event that the opposition parties came to a quiet “understanding” similar to the one Ian Murray benefits from in his Westminster constituency – which he turned from Scotland’s most marginal seat into its safest one in the space of two elections thanks to Tory tactical votes – things could get unexpectedly interesting.

    But a scandal-weakened SNP leader, vulnerable to tactical voting and now operating without a safety net, must have Labour salivating like hungry lions outside a home for old blind antelopes. Sarwar would be a huge underdog and would have nothing of any consequence to lose, but a potentially gigantic win.

    Ruby/Mia/AYRSHIRE ROB/Al-Stuart/Brian Doonthetoon what do you think?

  350. twathater says:

    @ msdidi thanks for that link , that open crawling and fawning to the lgbti was boak inducing , again NO mention of any independence, NO mention of poverty relief for children and families , I know it was a out for indy presentation but the blatant lies about protections for women when she has done the complete opposite for years is sickening and reprehensible

  351. A. Bruce says:

    Gone right handed@ 08:14

    Try learning German yourself; and saying that a language is redundant just shows your ignorance.

    Es heisst, Sie müssen Deutsch lernen Schottland, wenn Sie die Europäische Union beitreten möchten.

    Not als you want to join mit

    If you’re not using an Umlaut you must insert a second vowel.
    And it’s wenn, not als

  352. Confusing Musing says:

    Curious as to something. Somebody recently mentioned potential USA interference in Holyrood politics. The SNP’s politics certainly resemble almost to the letter the contemporary deranged, reality-free politics of the Democrats in America. Their pernicious influence is also being felt in other countries round the globe right now as well. America is used to interfering in the democracy of other countries and twisting their governments to suit their own needs.

    Now. There are a lot of rabbit holes you could crawl down into on the internet about this stuff. So let’s just take a few verifiable facts:

    1) Scotland has oil and gas.
    2) Scotland has Trident.
    3) Dissolving the union weakens the worthless increasingly third world country England, which has a lot of ties to America. Bawjaws is, after all, an American by birth.

    Now. You would have to ask yourself what the Americans would want to interfere in our politics for. The answers are above. How much of our oil do they buy/sell? What does basing Trident in our waters gain them? What is the geopolitical worth of outdated nuclear weapons on the world stage for America and England? How much does England get paid for us to host these vile weapons?

    Now ask yourself why we have such divide-and-conquer abject idiocy going on in our embarrassing politics, and our country run by a vindictive lunatic harridan. How is she compromised? We all know the answer to that one. How could Scottish politics be manipulated? We know for certain that anti-intellectual voids like Humza Yousaf spent time in America on the IVLP:

    What do they do there? What do they learn there? How and why are they picked? What effect does their indoctrination there have on the policies they effect in their home countries once they go back, starry-eyed and lobotomised, wowed by the big bucks from the world’s premiere bullshit artists and nutcases? Why was/is Sturgeon so obsessed with the terminally evil hawk Hillary Clinton, except for out of psychotic personal ambition? Why do Scottish politicians get free trips to America?

    Now. I am just asking a few questions here. But I genuinely think they are worth asking. People in the Western world are way too cowed by the rogue state America to ask probing questions, too trusting that that country has their best interests at heart. It does not. It has its own interests at heart, or, more specifically, the interests of the bleating oligarch elite running it, whose politics Scottish (and other countries’) politics now resemble so much. There is information to be learned, and I am curious to know if, say, starting with Trident, and what it is worth to America and England for us to keep that here, what we can learn and what jigsaw puzzle pieces we can fill in. Anybody got any good overview articles on our role in housing Trident, or Scottish oil and gas sales to America, with an English cut taken?

    Thanks in advance.

  353. Breeks says:

    Mitchell says:
    18 April, 2021 at 10:14 pm

    I can also post neverending meaningless shite. LoL

    So could a three year old. It’s writing it you’d find a challenge.

    Maybe you could ask that three year old to explain how the scroll function works and then you’ll never again be troubled trying to read all those big words from which you can’t decipher any meaning.

  354. Captain Yossarian says:

    @Al-Stuart – We live in a country where the FM appeared definitely to be guilty but, despite that, she was found innocent. Did that actually surprise anyone?

    I raised the question of Shetlands agreement to join an independent Scotland yesterday and was met with a barrage of ‘we’ve answered this years ago…this is all settled’. All the information I was sent I studied and all it proved my case and not theirs’.

    There is very little that is certain just now, especially here. Agreed?

    If you want this forum to be unquestioning and for your views only, then just say that.

  355. Kiwilassie says:

    Looks like having Alex back with a second Indy party is the best option for you all getting your Independence.
    Max the vote SNP constituency vote, ALBA list vote.
    Well worth viewing. What will WM do?

  356. Aunty Flo says:

    Nice summary of the problem, Malcolm, but all I am hearing is a lengthy expression of your disappointment and frustration, stuck in the domain of the problem.

    What about moving your attention into the domain of the solution?

    ‘We need new leadership, or a new leadership ‘ethic” doesn’t really cut it, I’m afraid!

    Begs the question, ‘and so …..?’

  357. Effigy says:

    Sky news reporting Tory Housing Minister Chris Pincher
    lambasting some Top Football Clubs for wanting their own
    breakaway league.

    Most amusingly he accuses them of being football of the elite, by the elite
    for the elite!

    Can you imagine how much worse that could be if we had a government just like that?

    For those who dot know, FIFA the ruling body has a long history of corruption
    with billions being taken out for their own pockets.
    Former Chief Sepp Blatter became a multi millionaire and bribed his way to be re-election.
    The head of the 13 Caribbean football nations also became a multi millionaire teacher just for
    giving his 13 votes to Blatter.

    A bit like the Unionist situation here, are you better to stick with the thieves who have been robbing
    you for years?

  358. Alf Baird says:

    Tannadice Boy @ 12:03 am

    “So what are you saying?”

    Postcolonial theory and literature provide the templates on decolonisation/independence. Its up to you whether you read it or not.

  359. Ruby says:

    Andy Ellis says:

    I’ve never understood the anti-Gaelic hostility so many folk seem to harbour, sadly on both pro and anti indy sides of the argument


    I agree with that! It’s very strange I don’t think it would be too far off the mark to describe it as racist behaviour.

    I find it very offensive!

  360. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    The so called “English” football teams that are leaving are mostly International players, Managers and owners.

  361. Ruby says:

    Kiwilassie says:
    19 April, 2021 at 7:43 am
    Looks like having Alex back with a second Indy party is the best option for you all getting your Independence.
    Max the vote SNP constituency vote, ALBA list vote.
    Well worth viewing. What will WM do?

    Videos don’t play on archived links Kiwilassie.

    Try this instead:

  362. John Main says:

    O/T I know, but does anybody know if we have got our Right To Roam back?

    Saint Nick has been showering pre-election gifts like candy, but as usual, nothing for me. I must be one of the lucky Scots who already has everything!

    So my Right To Roam is important to me. So important in fact, I used to boast about it to foreigners. I have had to keep my head down there for the past year, so am keen to once again get to a position where being Scottish might actually give me something to brag about. Apart from Baby Boxes, obvs.

    So has it been given back?

  363. English football clubs want the benefit of being part of a European league,

    did England not just vote to drag us all away from the benefits of a European league,


    England has gone total tonto and of the reservation,

    we need independence ASAP.

  364. Ruby says:

    PS Kiwilassie

    If you are going to post the You Tube link to

    “Scotland and independence referendums: short- and long-term reflections”

    You should perhaps post a warning to Mitchell, Kcor, Arch Stanton & the other ***** that the video lasts for more than 5 minutes so it’s perhaps something they might want to avoid.

  365. Alf Baird says:

    ben madigan @ 11:58 pm

    “i did think of the Scots language as I was writing but didn’t mention it as it didn’t fit in with what I was saying about Gaelic”

    Prevailing political discourse prioritises English and more recently also the Gaelic language in Scotland. Folks need to figure out why Scots is not given the same authoritative status or resource as either.

    Linguistic imperialism, and hence language deprivation (and linguicide) is a common and intentional feature of colonial rule. Language and culture determine our identity after all and if the ruling authority want to alter a peoples’ identity the place to start is their language.

    Successive Council of Europe reports on minority languages confirms that the Scots language needs to be properly respected, i.e. primarily for Scots speakers to learn how to read and write in their mother tongue in the ‘schuil’.

  366. Arch Stanton says:

    All of the pressing issues of the can be aired and argued here; Gaelic, Scots, Doric….

  367. Robert Hughes says:

    In a misguided , possibly ” perverse ” ( HA ! ) act of intelligence abuse I attempted to watch that NS video posted above : I managed about 90 seconds – the pronoun idiocy just about had me on the ropes after 5 seconds but I persevered for another minute or so , until utter revulsion – leavened by fits of laughter – at the smugness , demented ” on message ” ( hope Kamala is watching !! ) disconnect from what the vast majority of people in Scotland care about eg jobs, education , housing , etc compelled me to turn it off in disgust .

    A little over 2 weeks until the H.E and THIS is what she considers important , FFS .

    As others have speculated ….could it be that she is deliberately ” throwing ” this election , either to sabotage the Super- Majority possibility , to give herself an easy out or , more worryingly , because she actually believes more than tiny % of Scottish residents give a flying fuck about this shit ?

  368. Alan Thoms says:

    @scott Finlayson
    It may come as a surprise to you but English,Scottish and Welsh clubs already partake in European competitions. What in God’s name does the potential breakaway of the greedy six has to do with Scottish Independence? Talk about clutching at straws.

  369. The Isolator says:

    Crocadile tears from the likes of Gary Neville over “English” football clubs fleeing the nation in its hour of need.The same grubby clubs have been taking the Yankee dollar and Russian Ruble for years and shafting every other team in their association in the process.Manchester City?..yer havin a laff.

    Next up Celtic and The Rangers off to the Dutch and Belgian merge.That should be fun.

  370. kapelmeister says:

    Rev Stu hasn’t posted since midday on Thursday. Did he say he was taking a break?

  371. callmedave says:

    Was spending a wee while on you tube yesterday afternoon re: (live reaction to old music by the younger generation on listening to clip, very good and trending)

    Anyhoo! In the two hours I was there, which I enjoyed, I had to suffer the short adverts that now interrupt some clips, I got the new leader of the Scottish Labour Party ‘Sarwar’ 8 times. 🙁

    Going big before the election! Mind you I was quick on the delete button so he never made much progress.

    Your call radio shortbread now on… Prof Curtis et al on the election plus Duke’s contribution to Scotland with Scottish Piper etc.

    Going back to you tube again later. 🙂

  372. Breeks says:

    Ruby says:
    19 April, 2021 at 8:01 am
    Andy Ellis says:

    I’ve never understood the anti-Gaelic hostility so many folk seem to harbour, sadly on both pro and anti indy sides of the argument


    I agree with that! It’s very strange I don’t think it would be too far off the mark to describe it as racist behaviour.

    I find it very offensive!

    I think a lot is down to attitude, and it’s a two way street.

    I remember a friend of mine who worked in Shetland or Orkney, (I forget, it was 30+ years ago), and he was ribbed and slagged off for being a Lowlander from the Borders; next worst thing to an Englishman. But being a Borderer, we was a devoted Rugby supporter, and watching Scotland beating England at the rugby and winning the first Scottish Grand Slam for decades, he noted all the folk in the bar cheering like crazy for Scotland.

    “What are you lot cheering for? Jim Aitken’s from Gala. Paxton. Dods. Jim Telfer. All Borderers. The whole team are those “not really Scottish” Lowlanders from the Borders and Edinburgh.”

    I think Scotland has a lot of inverted snobbery about it’s ethnicity. It’s something potentially ugly and inflammatory, and yet, at the same time, it’s mixed with tremendous empathy. It’s a very Scottish mindset. Your blood can boil that a Gael is giving you cheek because you’re not a real Scot with “Mac” surname, or express disdain that a Lowlander is dressed up in a kilt. But while that is cultural snobbery, there is also an awareness and I think a guilt that the Gaels were persecuted for a long time for their language and wearing the plaid, and to a degree, persecuted by those now adopting the culture they not so long ago persecuted.

    We are all one Scotland. None of us owns the patent on being Scottish. If folks in the outer Hebrides can cheer on Scottish Rugby thumping England, then a Lowland Scot can do his Rose Street Pub Crawl in a kilt. It’s all fine. We are one Scotland. Fall out and disagree if you like, but when push comes to shove, don’t forget who’s side we’re all on.

    Although… I wouldn’t wear a kilt in Edinburgh on Hogmanay however. Once is enough. Up the Tron in the good old days before all the Check Point Charlie carry on… A delicate little flower like me wasn’t ready for all that kind of attention from so many Scottish lasses with a bucketful of drink in them. Funny for the first five minutes, then you understand what the sgian dubh in your sock is for.

    And for all those folks who maybe feel a wee bit insecure that they can’t pronounce Gaelic words or speak and Gaelic, my best advice is to get cracking on Duolingo and learn a wee bit Gaelic. It doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t cost. It’s brilliant when you can read a thing and make sense of it. You can begin to watch Gaelic on TV and while most of it still indecipherable, you start to pick out the odd word and even if you don’t know what they’re saying, you kinda know what they’re talking about.

    Suddenly you’re saying Slàinte Mhath, not because you’re trying on somebody else’s unfamiliar culture that feels a wee bit awkward, but because you now know what the words actually mean and what the ‘h’ does to the sound. Try it. Then your courtesy counts twice; once to whoever you’re toasting, and twice, to the Gaelic culture you’re dipping your toe into.

  373. @Alan Thoms,

    `What in God’s name does the potential breakaway of the greedy six has to do with Scottish Independence? `

    it`s called `seeing the bigger picture`

    i`m afraid if you don`t see it you will never see it,

    everything England does f@cks us up at some point in a ripple effect cause we are stuck to them,

    we need independence ASAP.

  374. kapelmeister says:

    The big six breakaway should be welcome to West Ham and Everton. It gives them a chance of being English League champions.

  375. kapelmeister says:

    Scot Finlayson @9:53

    You’re right Scot that the move might well affect Scottish football. Some of the remaining English clubs will almost certainly want the Old Firm to join their top division now.

  376. The Isolator says:

    @Alan Thoms

    Without the ” Greedy six” there is no top league in England.The TV money is gone,vanishing across the channel and the remaining clubs face significant hardship if not complete financial collapse. Why do you think the Tory government are piling in?

    As for the Scottish league it’s beginning to look a lot more attractive especially with the thought of there being no Old Firm involved.That is why we should resist the Colt team strategy already proposed by the seriously compromised Neil Doncaster.

    Football is a voting sweet spot ,believe it or not it is discussed in pubs ,workplace and homes up and down the country.Politicians know this and it is where they focus a great deal of attention for guaging the mood.People dismissing this development as not politically significant do so with their eyes and ears closed.

  377. Pete M says:

    Confusing musing

    Some or most of the info you are looking for re what they do over in the US can probably be gleaned from this , which should be required reading for all interested in British politics-

  378. Ros Curwood says:

    ‘Independence is a process, not an event. We have to start behaving as if we are intending to become independent.’

    This little sentence is the kernel from which a great tree grows. The linguistics consistently used over the last five years at least, after Alex’s influence faded, has been servile. We ‘ask’ Boris for permission to hold a referendum. We ‘seek’ interviews with Westminster. We ‘request’ our submissions to be read. We do not at any time, officially or politically, behave or speak as equals, always subserviently, sometimes it is true with a little foot-stamping, but never with any real intent to show belief in ourselves. This really has to stop. Linguistics, the means by which we express what we mean, has to begin to reflect the fact that history is the past. We have been taught to be subservient by the opposite use of linguistics from the Westminster and Whitehall establishment and the press: the belittling, the refusal to acknowledge contribution, the foisting of unpalatable decisions upon us, and like many of the bullied, we had begun to believe that reading of our abilities to be the truth. The present and the future it heralds, has to be communicated to reflect the reality of what we believe of ourselves. Our Westminster group has stopped breathing fire and brimstone, when was the last time the eloquent Mhairi Black told the Tories what she thinks of them? What happened? Somehow we have to begin to speak again, publicly, as equals, to stand our ground, to show our spirit. Martin Keating has made a great stand against the rot that has pervaded Scottish politics, and fights bravely on despite being enclosed in a thick fog of cold determination from our government to shut him up. And now we have Alex Salmond, also fighting bravely against a thick fog of hideous character assassination disguised as righteous indignation. We have to complain and rail against the use of linguistic terms which actually infer subservience whilst purporting to proclaim independence. These two great examples of Scottish determination for independence always use positive language, and we need to emulate their example whenever possible and challenge the creeping power of subservient linguistics. Sorry for rant, but it’s important and til we start behaving, and talking and communicating as if we are intending to become independent, we wont convince ourselves let alone the rampant parcel of rogues at Westminster.

  379. Fergus says:



  380. Ottomanboi says:

    Without real independence all the issues aired here are just mist destined to evaporate in the hot sun of the stark reality of the outlandish times we live in.
    Internationalism the mantra chanted by some nationalists is now a concept polluted by notions of democracy averse, plutocratic Globalism.
    The «pandemic world» is the playground of those who expect and are getting obedience, who in the guise of philanthropy assertively promote their particular worldviews and pay mere lip service to the historic human value, freedom to reason, dissent and reject. The same make a mockery of «science» cherry-picking, commoditizing and monetizing it for profit.
    Scotland needs an independence movement with «savvy». There are nasty big fish out there who eat small/medium countries for breakfast and they have little fish to pimp for them.

  381. Ottomanboi says:

    «Ros Curwood»
    The SNP compromized with the system. In government it went for respectability, to be seen as doing a good job and as a consequence ended up as a clerk in the burocracy of UK inc.
    Decolonizing independence movements go through a learning curve in which they imagine the opposition to be fair and reasonable and then the coin drops with a thunderous clatter exposing the arrant nonsense of that.

  382. Robert Hughes says:

    Spot-on Ottomanboi , and the sooner more people in Scotland , and elsewhere wake-up to what’s being done in the shadows under the guise of ” Covid Recovery ” the better

  383. Graeme Purves says:

    Spot on, Malcolm!

  384. AWhiteLife says:

    Genuine question What would Scotland do if/ when the oil & whisk export end?

  385. Andy Ellis says:

    @AWhiteLife 12.14pm

    It’ll do the same as all other countries. Most seem to manage fine without either, so do you honestly believe Scotland is uniquely incapable of supporting itself?

    Also, how do you figure whisky exports are going to end…? It’s not going to run out you absolute rocket! 🙂

  386. Breeks says:

    AWhiteLife says:
    19 April, 2021 at 12:14 pm
    Genuine question What would Scotland do if/ when the oil & whisk export end?

    What will Westminster do without Scottish oil and whisky shoring up it’s balance of trade?

  387. Shug says:

    BBC Scotland this morning. “The Crown Office has passed us a report on care home deaths”
    When did the crown office start passing reports to the bbc.

  388. PaulaJ says:

    AWhiteLife says:

    “Genuine question…”

    Genuine confusion, surely. Yes, the oil will run out one day, but not soon. As for whisky; that’s surely one of the original ‘renewables’. World (and whisky) without end.

  389. James Carroll says:

    I liked the wishart insert. Very apt. This will be the SNPs last chance I think to actually do something.

  390. Dr. Kerr

    You make a lot of good points but I must take exception to this:

    What, then, are SNP MPs doing in London bars, getting publicly drunk, and sexually harassing their staffers?

    People are entitled to a private life and are also entitled to a sex life. I don’t expect indy supporters – elected or otherwise – to give up their entire lives to pursue it. They’re allowed to take time out, get drunk, and flirt with who they fancy.

    London is a great city. I know because I’ve lived and worked there – and also got drunk and flirted (and more!) there. Supporting independence for Scotland does not mean hating London or never enjoying what London has to offer.

    So let SNP MPs have a drink – just let’s hope that’s not all they’re doing…


    AWhiteLife says:
    19 April, 2021 at 12:14 pm
    Genuine question What would Scotland do if/ when the oil & whisk export end?

    Oil and whisky are not Scotland’s only industries. Food, finance and space are also great Scottish industries and I’m sure there are many more just waiting to blossom.

    Scotland will move with the times, just like every other nation.

  392. Kcor says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says,

    “Hi Kcor.

    You either have a crap memory or don’t read all the comments.”

    Hi Brian.

    It seems you want Sturgeon defeated in the Glasgow Southside constituency, but are too frightened of the Ruby/Mia/AYRSHIRE ROB/Al-Stuart/Breeks brigade to say so openly:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    16 April, 2021 at 10:55 pm

    “I am not a voter in Glasgow Southside.

    It’s up to them.”

    And why are you telling me not to repeat my view but not telling the Ruby/Mia/AYRSHIRE ROB/Al-Stuart/Breeks brigade not to repeat theirs?

    In any case, it is very arrogant of you to state something like that on someone else’s blog.

  393. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Kcor at 6:35 pm.

    You typed,
    “In any case, it is very arrogant of you to state something like that on someone else’s blog.”

    Can you point out where I stated “something like that on someone else’s blog.”?

    Kcor – you are sussed. You comment on WOS to sow disruption within the YES movement. Kinda like your reversed namesake, who had compiled a database of others’ comments, over the years, and scatter-gunned them all over WOS pages.

  394. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Kcor also says at 6:35 pm.

    You typed,
    “It seems you want Sturgeon defeated in the Glasgow Southside constituency, but are too frightened of the Ruby/Mia/AYRSHIRE ROB/Al-Stuart/Breeks brigade to say so openly”

    So, WOS is not OPENLY read all over the world???
    You’ve read my comments. What bar is there for anyone else to read them???
    My comments here are not available to anyone who has an internet connection???

    Yir strugglin’ now, Rock/Kcor…

  395. Daisy Walker says:

    @ AWhiteLife says:
    19 April, 2021 at 12:14 pm

    Genuine question What would Scotland do if/ when the oil & whisk export end?’

    Well since currently all wealth earned from these exports goes to Westminster, once we have indy, we’ll be able to look and see exactly how Westminster adjusted to the sudden withdrawl of all those assets. I do hope they set a good example.

    Not exacly sure why Whiskey export would suddenly run out? Possibly you are unaware of how it is produced? Wee clue, It’s not like coal, or oil it doesn’t get dug up from the ground.

    Still, at least with these resources at our finger tips, we could manage the decline in oil and gas, by investing in renewables. Bit like Norway.

    Genuine question, without Scotland’s soldiers to fight England’s wars, do you think England/Britain might haul its neck in a bit?

  396. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Or even WHISKY export…


  397. anon says:

    I did rather like “We’re getting to the point where we should soon be Blairite enough to invade Iraq.”

  398. Pixywine says:

    We can start behaving and dressing as a Turkish Admirals but that won’t make us Turkish Admirals

  399. Lee Floyd says:

    ‘Brexit as as act of self harm’…..but Scottish independence isn’t? Riiiiigght….if we can tease out the contradiction, perhaps we’d get somewhere sane.

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