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Gordon Brown is a liar

Posted on August 21, 2014 by

This is what goes on behind the closed doors of invitation-only events run by the No campaign. Here, the former PM and self-proclaimed “ex-politician” lies through his teeth (again) to a Fife audience in June, presumably hoping they’ve by now forgotten his incompetent reign as Chancellor – the massive pensions raid, the cut-price sell-off of the nation’s gold, the ending of the 10p tax rate and all the rest, and the calamitous economic crisis he bequeathed to the nation:

Apparently oil revenues will be the sole source of money for an independent Scotland. No taxes at all. Apparently they’re only “£3 billion a year”, even though they’ve in fact NEVER been as low as £3bn since the Scottish Parliament existed and most sensible projections put receipts for the next few years at an average of at least twice that.


It’s heartbreaking that some Scots will decide the future of their children’s country on the basis of such utterly shameless, brazen, cynical, tribal, self-serving dishonesty. We don’t trust ourselves to say any more on the subject than that.

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  1. 21 08 14 17:10

    Gordon Brown is a liar | Scottish Independence News

  2. 23 11 14 16:32

    The Man Who Bought The Union Some Time | A Wilderness of Peace

  3. 18 10 20 15:34

    Confusing their brains in college-classes | A Wilderness of Peace

447 to “Gordon Brown is a liar”

  1. I can’t even watch this all the way through. The man’s a disgrace.

  2. ElaineS says:

    We need a protest outside his office showing him up about all his lies. I’m popping in a copy of the letter from Blood and Translant that cancels out his blatant lies on risk to transplants.

  3. Gaavster says:

    This is the biggest issue for me of the lot…

    If this thing goes against us, and we have lost because of bullshit like this, spouted by someone who ought to know better but is only driven by their own personal gain, then I genuinely fear for what may happen next and where does it leave us as a nation and as a people?

  4. goldenayr says:

    Pinnochio doesn’t get a look in with him about.If he keeps going his nose will keep me going in firewood for decades.

  5. Holebender says:

    This arsehole was in charge of UK finances for how long? He was either asleep that whole time or he knows he’s lying.

  6. Indy_Scot says:

    The man that is so full of himself that he once claimed he “saved the world” is now reduced to spreading lies and fear about his own country.

    Let’s make sure in four weeks time we rid ourselves once and for all from these types of people.

  7. Robert Kerr says:



  8. goldenayr says:

    Does he still hold constituency surgeries?

  9. Macart says:

    That he launches these lies against his own electorate pretty much says it all about the man.


  10. Johnny says:

    Oh my word. Shameless. what an utter disgrace that he’s allowed to peddle such guff amongst the hard-of-thinking.

  11. Mark Coburn says:

    The worst of the worst. Propagating the too poor philosophy. Despicable.

  12. Chani says:

    And this ladies and gentlemen was once our Prime Minister. Still lauded as a top UK politician even though he sometimes forgets he is even an MP. He is a total disgrace. This debate has shown a lot of peoples true colours.

  13. Donald says:

    Been doing telephone canvassing today. Put simply, lots of pensioners believe this scaremongering. We’ve got to help our older folk see through this – WBB for all Grannie’s. Flip side, my Facebook is looking very positive with DKs and even a strongish No turning to Yes. Need to help the old folks see the truth though.

  14. Murray McCallum says:

    What does Gordon Brown have to say before his lies are exposed on the main evening news?

    Maybe he will be off to visit Spain and declare himself King or something. Even that likely never to get reported though …

  15. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    It is no wonder the UK is run so badly, when you had such innumerate witless individuals Gordo & Darling and now with Georse Osborne in charge of the kitty tin.

    TBH. I don’t think they are intentionally lying, they have some form of dyscalculia (Dyscalculia unionista)

  16. Jim Thomson says:

    Just like Anne (first post) I only managed to get 1:30 into it and had to stop.


  17. Cyc says:

    Jesus Christ. Have they all sold their souls to Westminster?

  18. Johnny says:

    The people there clapping along cannot seriously have sat there and not been thinking ‘but what about the taxes I/my family/friends/whoever pay, even though we have nothing to do with the oil industry, so that we can have these services?’. Where’s the LOGIC?!?

  19. Ron Burgundy says:

    What lying shit. Does he think that Scotland’s only revenue stream is oil and gas? What about food / tourism, high tech, whisky, specialist manufacturing, renewables technology.

    No wonder he fucked up his political career. Annoying that he tells lies like this to people with the most to gain from independence.

  20. katsoft says:

    Nice to see Gordon’s learnt to count since his days as chancellor, pity his speech caused his nose to grow like Pinnochio.
    Well seen he didn’t want this to go into public domain

  21. Gary C says:

    What an absolute c**t of a man. He honestly disgusts me, he was in Easterhouse last week, with a pre-planned speech about pensions but was thrown when there were hardly any pensioners on show but he still went on about pensions, but was brought to task by a local community worker, was caught lying but kept it up.

  22. Jim Marshall says:

    He was the subject of ridicule in Westminster when they called him Mr Bean, however Mr Bean was funny, Brown is not, in fact his sanity must be in question if he thinks anyone will swallow his lies.

  23. haartime says:

    To think he was a Chancellor of the Exchequer is mind boggling. He’s financially illiterate and f***ing useless at maths. No wonder the UK is in such a mess.

    (Sorry about the swearing but this stuff makes me so mad)

  24. gillie says:

    Let him lie his socks off. The more lies the better. The more he goes unchallenged by the media the better.

    Let Gordon Brown drown in his own lies.

  25. Jimbo says:

    Gordon Brown; some-one who looks south for advantage and personal fortune – happy to sell Scotland down the river to keep his place at the trough.

    I bet he can just visualize himself in ermine – Lord Brown of Sellout.

  26. bookie from hell says:

    gordons Scotland

    bust & bust

    he has 0 confidence in Scotland as a nation

  27. heedtracker says:

    £3bn oil income and £40 bn spend? Who on earth is Crash talking too in that room?

  28. bunter says:

    Lets make sure we expose this vile clown to as many as possible, via social media.

  29. James Henry says:

    The man must have an almost unbelievably low opinion of his audience. (maybe justifiably so)

  30. gerry parker says:

    I just got my “Why Independence will be the best thing for generations” booklet through the door.

    I hope those people clapping at the idiot Brown take the time to read it.

  31. Tackety Beets says:

    Did anyone hear Gordie say we are all gonna sit at home on our Ar*es and watch the world go by ? FFS … Now we know why Labour in WM made the UK such a mess . What did ooer granny say ” dinae darken my door again ” how appropriate ! I used to work with a Doorman who always shouted out GTF at the end o the night …..that applies to you Gordie Broon , GTF ! Makes Me Mad with rage all this S@@@ !

  32. heedtracker says:

    When you take just a cursory look at how Scotland’s been deindustrialised by Labour in particular for the last 50 years, its actually a tragic display of self interest and corruption.

    Why are there any labour in Scotland voters at all?

  33. Breastplate says:

    Mr Brown demonstrating yet again he believes the average intelligence of a Scot to be slightly less than that of a cow pat.
    I think the No mob may have given up on the positive case for the onion.
    That man is a poor excuse for a jellyfish.

  34. James Sneddon says:

    Lying bastards lie but one day that man will be a figure of fun passed down the centuries.

  35. Alistair Grapevine says:

    He is the son of the manse, I think he knows hes going to the burnie fire

  36. heedtracker says:

    “The best Scottish future is to lead Britain” Christ they’ll really love that across the border in merry olde England.

  37. john j says:

    If your going to lie you might as well make it a whopper.

  38. Roboscot says:

    “We don’t trust ourselves to say any more on the subject than that.”

    Don’t get mad, get a Yes vote.

  39. Anne Duncan says:

    Shame on him!!! He must think we are well below functional intelligence or something…. I’m speechless!

  40. dennis mclaughlin says:

    United with Labour,the Tory Party and the dependable Liberal Democrats……
    Munchausen’s by Proxy is what he and his Labour chums are all cursed by,out and out bloody liars.

  41. heraldnomore says:

    And he’s speaking in Hamilton next week; an open evening, assuming your application to attend is approved. Maybe see if they’ll allow me to attend, and if so he’ll convince me to Vote No. You never know I might even have had the first of my promised phone calls by then.

    We can but dream. Now where were all theses Yes Because thingies?

  42. FergusMac says:

    Frank Field hit the nail on the head in his comment to Tony Blair when it became certain that Blair would resign and Brown take over:

    “You have let Mrs Rochester out of the Attic!”

    Blair laughed.

  43. Franariod says:

    Let me get this straight, according to what Gordon just said, Scotland only contributes £3B to the UK economy.There is nothing else that we do up here, no other industries? Then he goes onto talk about Scotland contributing & leading the UK. How can we do that with only 3billion? How do we pull and share if we have nothing to share? You would think his leader in London would be jumping at the chance to unload such a massive debt. It explains a lot on how the financial collapse happened in a secure, resourceful and sharing UK, the man cant count and doesnt understand how to use resources. The saddest part is no matter how hard you explain the real situation, people in this country still want to believe what people like Gordon are telling them. Im hearing ,” yes I would like Scotland to be independent but its just a romantic notion, we cant possibly go on our own, how would we pay for it all?” You can give a partially sighted person glasses to help them see but if they refuse to put them on, what can you do?

  44. fred blogger says:

    a new labour thatcherite through and through.
    plays to the subsidy junkies myth.
    how dare he!

  45. alexicon says:

    We need a protest outside his office showing him up about all his lies. I’m popping in a copy of the letter from Blood and Translant that cancels out his blatant lies on risk to transplants.

    Why waste your time standing outside his office where only his secretary will notice?
    Do it outside his meetings where all the people he has just lied too can see the brazen lies he utters.
    Time to target their meetings!!!

  46. Harry McAye says:

    A lot of folk don’t seem to be clapping. Maybe they’ve seen the many flaws in his argument.

  47. Nobby Power says:

    @GoldenAyr…in theory he does, but like everything else with that waste of space, you’ll have a job pinning him down to it.

  48. Dcanmore says:

    Brown is proving he is not a politician of any note. He ascended to Chancellor and then PM with a great clunking fist. He has no prowess at all for being in office, Brown is an ideological battering ram. When in office (in either position) he has ideas based on ideology, mostly his own, not intellect. Then he gets his minions to try and realise his great ideas only to be told they are unworkable, then clunking fist comes thundering down and Gordo ‘solves’ problems by finding £billions (gold sell off, pensions raid, borrowing) to chuck down the deep dark hole of his consciousness, you know, where his moral compass was last seen.

    This sad, sorry, behemoth of a liar must never be allowed near a position of responsibility ever again.

  49. Nana Smith says:

    You know its really difficult to pick out which of them is the worst politician. But I can safely say this man is at the top of the list.

    He scares the elderly by telling them they won’t get a pension, he scares the sick by telling them they won’t get treatment.

    So yes this Brown creature is truly vile.

  50. nelliejean says:

    He just makes me want to punch him. OK, and kick him too. *rageflail*

  51. Burns had a word for his sort “Toadeater”

    Toadeater Brown, I like it.

  52. Democracy Reborn says:

    Well, remember what even Blair said about Brown : the “brutal truth” was that he had “psychological flaws”.

    (Alastair Campbell, Diaries, 18/1/98)

  53. Colin says:

    I’m sorry but you would have to be a completely imbecilic to believe that crap, which is why he says it behind closed doors to an invitation only audience.
    An audience that has already made its mind up to vote no and can see no further than the end of their noses.

  54. Les Wilson says:

    john j says:

    Your right John, and he has made plenty of them!

  55. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    That must be some brass neck you need to have to be a Labour politician. Pretty sickening to watch this knowing that people repeat this sh1t as gospel via the media.

  56. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    I feel good that history is at this very moment recording the legacy of these lying sneering smearing individuals. I feel a tad sorry for family and future family members who will have to live with the shame of a member of their family lying and cheating Scotland and her people. I am finding it difficult not to despise them.

  57. annie says:

    This is the “principled man” who called the woman who mentioned immigration a bigot yet he stands there telling barefaced lies. Son of the manse indeed, bet his father would be ashamed of him.

  58. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    The man is either lying or mentally ill, and believes the shite he utters.

    I hope for his sake he is mentally ill, as it may be possible for him to get treatment.

    If he is a congenital liar I weep for UK and Labour Party politics that this is what they have come to.

    Of course he may be a mentally ill and has become a liar to rationalise his internal delusions.

    Either way he should be let out alone, never mind standing in front of an audience pouting his keich.

    Jimmy Reid said that he never left the Labour Party, it left him.

    I think with that, sanity also departed.

  59. galamcennalath says:

    I think this is the worst NaeSaying display I’ve seen so far in the campaign.

    Absolute scum, the lowest of the low. How could anyone sell out and talk down their country like this?

  60. Jim Marshall says:

    Democracy Reborn 4.11

    “psychological flaws” Clearly he is mad as a hatter.

    Colin 4.12

    “An audience that has already made its mind up to vote no and can see no further than the end of their noses.”

    The audience must be mad also.

  61. farrochie says:

    Scotland has:

    Fishing, aquaculture, crops, livestock, food, drinks, world class and unique distilling, brewing, financial services, banking, tourism, education, research, IT software, engineering , construction, shipping, avionics, energy, hydroelectricity & renewables, coal, oil & gas and lots of water!

    Scotland has:

    Corporation Tax, VAT, Income Tax, NICS, duties on fuel, tobacco, alcohol, vehicles, currently all taken by Westminster.

  62. goldenayr says:

    Told you to go here and vote.–yahoo-readers-back-better-together-campaign-144542168.html#fGFFeq8

    There’s still time,do it now.If you tweet spread the word.

  63. bjsalba says:

    Would it be possible to calculate roughly how much the pensions raid has cost the average pensioner today?

    Could we make an estimate of how much he lost on the gold sales?

    Could we also have a list of all the various taxes that Gordie (despite being Chancellor for all those years) has somehow forgotten about.

    A one page sheet with a basic list as an addendum to the inside the blue book would be just dandy to hand out to the people coming out of the meeting.

    Be nice to get this information out to all pensioners in the areas he has held meetings in if we could manage it.

  64. Fiona says:

    I am astonished.

    According to Mr Brown we have to spend £40 billion on only 4 major items of expenditure. Oddly the tax take in Scotland in 2011-2012 was £56.9 billion including a geographical oil share.

    Looks like we can afford it after all. Mr Brown is a silly billy 😉

  65. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I gave up watching the video after 30 seconds or so.

    I tried again and could not progress.

    The man is a liar and mentally ill.

  66. TJenny says:

    In the words of, I think Zsa Zsa Gabor – don’t get mad, get everything, with a YES vote. 🙂 (OK the last bit was me).

  67. John O says:

    My god £3 billion pound’s of oil revenue a year, who let him near the cigarette packet calculator and would some one in betertogether help him with his addiction to the pipe.

  68. Jim Marshall says:

    goldenayr 4.19

    You are probably well aware of the biased reporting of the indyref campaign by Yahoo. I think it would be a waste of time voting in their poll as they can not be trusted. I have a Yahoo email account which I use for spam but will be closing it down and will have no further dealings with them.

  69. Cindie says:

    I think the worst thing is the fear that the Bitter Together lot spread. My own mum is 78, she’s Welsh but has lived here in Scotland for 12 years. She has been so scared by the dreadful stories that she has heard on the TV and the radio. She was frightened that she would lose her pension, that she might be deported, that her neighbours (who have always been good, kind and supportive) would turn against her because she is not Scottish.

    Luckily we have been able to reassure her on every point, she is not on her own. It is also great that where she lives there are yes signs and banners everywhere. Yes is very visable. She said today that she would vote yes or not vote at all, because the people all around her want yes and she could not betray their wishes, because this country has welcomed her and made her feel at home.

    But what about those people who don’t have anyone to ask or turn to for support? These scare stories are absolutely wicked and I don’t know how we can counteract them if there is a yes as the most vulnerable people could be so very scared about the future, when there is no reason for them to be.

  70. kalmar says:

    “Gordon is a moron”. Or have you already used that headline?

  71. Nana Smith says:

    I think Lesley-Anne told us a few nights ago that some elderly folk have been so frightened by the pensions scare they have been stockpiling food.

    Brown and the rest of this gang should be held to account for this fear mongering.

  72. goldenayr says:

    Jim Marshall

    Fully aware.

    Stopped my accounts with them during the 2007 election.Same with SKY this time around.

  73. Juteman says:

    I can’t say what i want to say as there are ladies present.

  74. Can not believe what I have just seen. How can the Labour Party have any credibility left.

  75. Juteman says:

    We can at least take comfort from the fact they must be panicking at No HQ to come out with such blatant shite as this.

  76. G H Graham says:

    The real reason Gordon “end of boom and bust” Brown, sold almost 400 tonnes of gold between 1999 & 2002 isn’t widely understood but it is a shocking insight to his reckless stewardship of our national assets & financial services.

    Before flogging it, he advertised the sales thus telling the bullion markets he was about to flood it with gold. Any school kid will tell you that when a market is flush with a commodity like Top Trumps Cards or Football Collector’s Cards, that commodity’s value & thus price, will fall.

    Then he told the markets he was going to auction it instead of the traditional method with which the price of gold was determined at a morning & afternoon “fix” between representatives of big banks. “Fix” doesn’t mean illegal, just a shorthand description for the way inter-bank deals were arranged on behalf of their client networks.

    Anyway, auctions as you may not know, invariably achieve a lower price than the “fix” price. This was quite a deliberate decision by the aptly nicknamed, “Crash” Gordon.

    “What? Why did he deliberately drive the price down?”, I hear you ask. Eh, well he did so because of a problem with some of the banks. But you need to understand how the bullion market worked in the 1990s before you understand why he did this.

    In the late 1990s, the gold carry trade was a scam in which a bank would borrow gold from another financial institution for a set period. It paid a token sum relative to the overall value of that gold until control of all the gold had been passed over at which point the bank would sell it for its full market value.

    The proceeds were invested in something else, anything really so long as it was predicted to generate a better return over the same period than the gold. But the gold price of course had to be stable or ideally falling.

    At the end of the fixed period, the bank would sell its investment & use the profit it made to buy back the amount of gold it had originally borrowed. Why would it do that? Because the price of gold had fallen of course so it bought the same gold effectively twice but only paid in full once, at a lower price. This gold would be returned to the lender & the borrowing bank would file the difference between the two prices as a tasty profit.

    As long as gold prices fell & other securities rose, this scam continued to work. But when gold prices moved the other way, some banks found themselves in very deep trouble.

    Rumour has it that Goldman Sachs approached the Treasury because another bank had shorted two tons of gold when prices were going the wrong way. A banking collapse was imminent.

    Thus Gordon “end of boom & bust’ Brown dumped gold all over the market like condoms in a brothel in an attempt to stave a financial sector collapse.

    But rather than pat him on the back, one might ask why such a colossal & chronic gold shorting scam was allowed to perpetuate under his Treasury leadership in the first place?

    Just as amazing though is that still, some folks think this clown can be taken seriously.

  77. Giving Goose says:

    Bugger (the Panda)

    It’s not so much that he is a congenital lier, it is simply that the telling of lies is now regarded as one of the tools of the Labour Party machine, to be used as seen fit.

    I know that journalists read Wings and they should very carefully consider their actions when it comes to either writing or broadcasting material like this. The easiest option fo them is not to publish this but that isn’t good enough.

    The public are being lied to and the MSM are a part of that. They could of course fix this sorry state of affairs but then that would mean elevating themselves from the sewer occupied by Gordon Brown and Labour.

    Will they do this or will they wait until we, the oridnary public, find a way to bring them to account?

  78. Alistair says:

    Guys, i’m not in Scotland – but you have to win this. Is this the best we can expect of a representative democracy? I’m caring less about the richer/poorer issue every day.

    We (Scotland) must do better. Keep fighting with everything you’ve got.

  79. Dan Huil says:

    From Day One the union has been founded on intimidation and lies. Brown is delighted to carry on this disgusting tradition.

  80. john mclean says:

    i think he has mental health problems,he was always a bit strange but has gone completely loopy in the last 20 years

  81. bugsbunny says:

    If that glass eyed cunt lies anymore, he will soon need to wear asbestos troosers.


  82. Edward says:

    Brown is a complete charlatan, no doubt about it.

    Will happily tell porkies in order to save himself

  83. pete says:

    I have said it before and I will say it again, nothing more that a full public inquiry for all those who have told blatant lies to the people of Scotland. Name and shame the lot of them. Dirty scumbags that they are, a date with a court of law is what they need for treason .

  84. Hugh Wallace says:

    Fuck. Me. Sideways.

    GB has either actually lost the plot was we suspected Blinky Darling had a few months back, or he just doesn’t care if he lies through his teeth.

    Or he simply can’t count. Aha! After his term as Chancellor, I think we know the answer to that…

  85. Dan Huil says:

    Meanwhile Westminster’s millionaire tories snigger as their obedient unionist Jocks revel in telling lies to further their own personal advantage. They are ("Tractor" - Ed)s.

  86. Bill says:

    If it can be proven that blatant lies were told then it will be easier to have another vote,,we just need to make sure its as soon as poss,and not in twenty years!!!!

  87. Colin Austin says:

    I’m going to post my comment that I made on the video here too in case it gets removed:

    So the only source of income an independent Scotland would have is from oil revenue? This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I’ve heard so far, and there have been plenty to choose from! I understand people wanting to remain part of the UK, it is the easy choice but there are many more industries in Scotland that would contribute towards the running of the country not to mention all of the Scottish Citizens that contribute too. Gordon, how much would my income tax, road tax, fuel duty, council tax, VAT and National insurance contributions pay for??

  88. Andrew Morton says:


    I wonder if he took questions afterwards?

  89. YESGUY says:

    How does this guy get away with talking. He is the man who bust the country and robbed the pensions.

    Horrible selfish ("Tractor" - Ed)

  90. Nation Libre says:

    I’ve watched this twice and I’m absolutely livid. This man is a low life rat. Get this shared daily on Facebook, twitter, emails. The Scottish Gov should hold a press conference about these bare faced lies, get on the TV and call Brown for the liar he is. No untruths, no spin, just lies. Call him for what he is, a liar. He can sue if he dares

  91. Schrödinger's cat says:

    The first thing after a yes vote will be the transfer of taxes to holyrood. Then we will know the truth
    I don’t think this blog will dissapear overnight

    We will not forget Gordon , you will be reminded. Frequently
    You will be held to account

  92. Port Jim says:

    By his figures rUK should be desperate to get rid of us.
    Sounds like we’re leeching off them for £40 – £3 = £37 billion per annum. Good riddance to us, I say. Vote yes for a more prosperous England!

  93. R-type Grunt says:

    That is quite appaling! And he’s doing it deliberately. He constantly refers to oil which makes his claim technically true whilst avoiding all the rest of the tax take. He’s treating these people like morons. I hope he’s wrong.

  94. ian foulds says:

    are you allowed to talk at local ‘old folks’ clubs and the like?

    this 64 year old thinks his and the (even) older generation need to be told the truth, to get the rightful result on the 18th – but it needs to happen NOW.

  95. Sandy says:

    3 billion from oil ?

    If that is all it is worth then surely they should be begging us to leave, and fund our “subsidies” ourselves.

  96. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    What port jim says. Should get this info to all rangers and orange order people. England wealthier without the sweaties. This will make them so happy to vote yes.

  97. Juteman says:

    Under the present system, it isn’t a crime for our elected politicians to tell lies. Hopefully a Scottish constitution will remedy this.

  98. john king says:

    My wife watched that wretched man sneaking out of a blacked out 4by4 next to the side door of Lochegelly town hall with his head down that day so he wouldnt be recognized , I am deeply ashamed that man represented me and I was quite smug at the fact my MP was the Prime Minister, interesting that his audience were out of focus so you couldnt tell who was at this meeting of the damned!

  99. Sinky says:

    Spread the word

    Coal Is The New Black Gold Under The North Sea “Sunday Times” 30 March 2014

    Scientists have discovered vast deposits of coal lying under the North Sea, potentially holding enough energy to power Britain for centuries.
    They have studied data, from seismic tests and boreholes, collected all over the North Sea for oil and gas exploration, but instead used it to build a picture of coal deposits.
    The work revealed that the sea bed holds up to 20 layers of coal extending from Britain’s northeast coast far out under the sea — and that much of it could be reached with the technologies already in use to extract oil and gas.
    “We think there are between three trillion and 23 trillion tonnes of coal buried under the North Sea,” said Dermot Roddy, formerly professor of energy at Newcastle University. “This is thousands of times greater than all the oil and gas we have taken out so far, which totals around 6bn tonnes. If we could extract just a few per cent of that coal it would be enough to power the UK for decades or centuries.”
    Geologists have long known that Britain’s onshore coal seams extend under the North Sea but were uncertain about the scale. Energy companies ignored them because they were seen as inaccessible.
    Recent years, however, have brought advances in technologies such as gasification, where superheated steam and oxygen are pumped underground to turn coal into gases that can be burnt for power or used to make plastics.

    Study the map here to see where will benefit

  100. chossy says:

    In 1998 our GDP was 63 Billion pounds, I presume it’s gone up a bit more since then.

  101. chossy says:

    £148 billion last year it would appear.

  102. john king says:

    “Under the present system, it isn’t a crime for our elected politicians to tell lies. Hopefully a Scottish constitution will remedy this.”

    The trouble with that Juteman is nothing is true and nothing is lies,
    go down that road and we are faced with politicians who are unable to say anything for fear of being sued .jailed or worse, as much as I would see that man tarred a feathered and run out of town on a rail,

    I’m afaid we just have to put up with weasels like him and ensure our electorate are streetwise enough to understand when they’re getting smoke blown up thier ass.

  103. Grouse Beater says:

    Gordon the Hapless – grousebeater.wordpress

  104. the crazy thing about these invitation only events,which my YES voting husband keeps get invited to,is that they preach to the converted.
    However, they are for some reason always covered by the press so the nonsense they spout gets out there.

  105. Jim Marshall says:

    Juteman 5.17

    “Under the present system, it isn’t a crime for our elected politicians to tell lies. Hopefully a Scottish constitution will remedy this.”

    Yes exactly, we should have the power to impeach and remove the liars from office. At least with the internet we can expose their lies whereas before they could lie and not be found out.

  106. Truth says:

    He didn’t end the 10p tax rate.

    He doubled it.

  107. willie fae kilwinning says:

    O/T Stu, sorry.

    Apologies if this has been posted before but couldn’t resist.

    A little boy goes to see his dad and says, “Dad, I have to do a special report for school. Can I ask you a question?”

    His father replies, “Sure, son. What’s the question?”

    The little boy says, “What is politics?”

    “Well son, let’s take our home for example. I am the wage earner, so let’s call me ‘Gordon Brown.’ Your mother is the administrator of money, so we’ll call her ‘Alistair Darling.’ We take care of your needs, so we’ll call you ‘The People.’ We’ll call the maid ‘The Working Class,’ and your baby brother we can call ‘The Future.’ Do you understand, son?

    “I’m not really sure, Dad. I’ll have to think about it.”

    That night, awakened by his baby brother’s crying, the boy went to see what was wrong. Discovering that the baby had seriously soiled his nappy, the boy went to his parents’ room and found his mother sound asleep. He went to the maid’s room where, peeking through the keyhole, he saw his father in bed with the maid. The boy’s knocking went totally unheeded by his father and the maid, so the boy returned to his room and went back to sleep. The next morning he reported to his father.

    “Dad, now I think I understand what politics is.”

    “Good, son! Can you explain it to me in your own words?”

    “Well, dad, while Gordon Brown is screwing the Working Class, Alistair Darling is sound asleep, the People are being completely ignored and the Future is full of shit.

  108. Democracy Reborn says:

    But £3 billion is chicken-feed to the sort of money that Gordo blew as Chancellor & PM.

    Remember PFI? His ‘brilliant’ solution for building new schools & hospitals during the last Labour govt? Analysis by the Guardian (5/7/12) revealed that it will end up costing taxpayers more than £300 billion. Some NHS organisations will end up paying almost 12 times the initial sum over what is usually a 30-year contract.

    Dave Prentis, general secretary of Unison:-

    “We’re sitting on a PFI time bomb, and the sheer scale of the burden paints a seriously grim picture for the future of our public services.”

    PFI had left the UK with a “staggering mountain of debt”, Prentis said.

    As Severin Carroll might say, Gordo is truly a financial ‘big beast’!

  109. YESGUY says:

    Ok O/T so sorry if i have too much spare time.

    Went gravater and opened a wee account (Name, E-mail and password” and got myself a new face.

    Picked out a photy and there it is on Wings and the like when i comment. Magic

    First was a trial now i’ve got a wee tartan bear (aye it’s cute)

    So it’s still me just a new face Ta – rah

    Can’t comment any more about Pa Broon. You all say pretty much what the whole world would say.

    Still liars and scare mongerers should be monstered big time. The pensioners are an easy target because they still trust the telly and politicians. If you know any near you give them a wee chat and put them right.

    Only the lowest form of scum would abuse folk like Brown has. A YES vote will show us what damage he REALLY done.

  110. mary vasey says:

    He does suffer from a mental condition, it’s called psychopathy! As do many of our westminster/ slab politicians. They have no empathy it’s all about ME. So with no conscience they can lie with no ill effect to themselves as long as they get what they want. Cherie Bliar has even called her health co. MEE Healthcare.
    Bastirts the lot of them
    From one auld wifie

  111. Greannach says:

    I think ‘brazen, self-seeking’ should be added to the title.

  112. YESGUY says:

    Scro/Cat 17.10

    I thought nothing will change day after a YES vote until we are Legally independent March 23rd 2016.

    I would be very interested what changes on the 19th when we vote YES .

  113. Brian Mchugh says:

    He is not lying… he just can’t count.

    Remember, he thought he was getting a good deal on our gold reserves.

  114. J. Denham says:

    Only excuse for this would be early onset of dimentia. This ‘son of the manse’ can’t believe the ‘pearly gates’ might prove the day of reckoning. OMG!

  115. Bigdrone says:

    There is an expression which kind-hearted, unselfish, caring Scots use out of pity for people they feel sorry for and it’s – “He’s no’ right!”

    In this case I might make an exception!

  116. David says:

    I can count past ten without taking off my shoes and socks. I don’t think Gordon Brown can say the same.
    Between 40 seconds and 1min 15 sec of the video, he adds up FOUR (4) items and completely messes up the sums:
    1- Pensions 9 Bi
    2- Soc Sec’y 22 Bi*
    3- Education 6 Bi
    4- Health 11 Bi
    The grand total is 48 Billion, but G Brown says it is 40 Billion.

    *Plan B: He seemed to miss adding the 9 of Pensions to the 22 of Soc Sec’y, but even being charitable to the Lochgelly Liar and assuming that 22 Bi is the real total of adding Pensions and Soc Sec’y, the final sum then would be 39 Billion (22 +6 +11), not 40 Billion as he states.

    So he is either Eight Billion too low, or ONE Billion too high. Which is it, Mr Ex-politician?

  117. manandboy says:

    I should like Gordon Brown
    and his ilk
    after Independence.

    Brown has done more harm
    to Scotland
    than Osama Bin Laden
    and Al Quaeda.

    The man should be locked up
    on Rockall.

  118. Keith Hynd says:

    That is my MP and every time I hear his name or that of his side kick Alex Rowley I hang my head in shame.

  119. handclapping says:

    No he’s not lying. A liar has some idea of the truth, some respect for the truth. As he has none he cannot be a liar and therefore he is innocent even were he not a believer in Calvanism and that he is one of the elect which means everything he does is for the benefit of himself and his fellow elect. The masses are damned anyway.

    Gordon is his own God

  120. gerry parker says:

    I guess if he gets ermine we could call him Lord Haw Haw.


  121. john king says:

    We cant get Brown for lying but here’s what we can get him in court for

    “Malfeasance is the willful and intentional action that injures a party.”
    Selling the gold and raiding the private pensions in my book amount to Malfeasance.

    I think both he and Blinky are WELL aware of this and is why bothy are panicking like crazy because they know they would be sharing a jail cell (poetic justice dont you think?)when the books are opened!

  122. JLT says:

    I can’t even believe that Scots are still voting for him, let alone turn up to listen to him denounce their country.

    Along with Maggie, Blair and Darling, Brown is also going to be remembered badly in the footnotes of history…

  123. David says:

    @ john king, Malfeasance, Misfeasance, Nonfeasance, Defeasance, I think he’s guilty of the lot!

  124. AndyC says:

    Wouldn’t waste my time watching this.
    I rate him lower than a paedophile.
    Ashamed to be born in the same county as this low life scumbag.

  125. manandboy says:

    Brown has done more harm
    to Scotland
    than Osama Bin Laden
    and Al Quaeda.

    What I meant to say was:-

    Brown has done more harm
    to Scotland
    then Osama bin Laden
    and Al Quaeda
    could have done
    in a hundred years.

    Age comes with a price tag!!

  126. JLT says:

    In fact (I have no idea if anyone else has mentioned it, I’ve just come to the end of the forum), but when you pause the clip at the very end to study the audience, it seems that they are heavily made up of the older members of our society. If this seems to be the case, then it seems the ex-Chancellor Brown is praying on those who probably fear the Referendum the most, as they may believe that they have the most to lose.

  127. big jock says:

    After today’s oil story by that other liar Ian Wood.There is now no doubt that the media and government are working hand in glove.No counter argument from the media as no impartial media exists.Democracy is dead in this campaign.When you can do as you like unchecked you just keep lying.Its hard not to get angry at ill informed people but they are led by the media.

  128. Marcia says:


    The No side don’t have a monopoly on us older voters. We need to get out and campaign and change those them voting Yes rather than No.

    Interesting snippets from canvassers that a few older voters have told them they want to discuss their vote with their families as it will effect their children and grandchildren in the long term rather than themselves.

    Now back to campaigning…

  129. CM says:


    Impressive! “YesBecause” trending on twitter!

  130. Nana Smith says:

    See how happy they all look and compare with the No lot who must be the most miserable bunch in the country.

  131. Andy-B says:

    What a despicable man Gordon Brown is, deliberately selling out his fellow Scotsman, to the Westminster establishment is in my opinion beyond contempt.


    Just heard there on STV news that there’s a possibility that the Scottish Government could buy Ferguson’s shipyard, Alex Salmond, will visit the yard tomorrow.

    This may well be the beginning of nationalising shipbuilding in Scotland.

  132. msean says:

    Can we trust these figures lol?

  133. manandboy says:

    Democracy is dead

    Greed is King

    Eventually, only the wealthy will have a vote.

    Well, the poor will be dead or diseased.

    There can be no doubt, Gordon and Alistair say,

    We are Better Together.

    Makes me think of people being herded

    into gas chambers.

    Vote Yes

    and avoid Westminster’s final solution for Scots.

  134. scunnered says:

    hes not lying…of course hes lying
    he knows hes lying and so does everybody on here
    its so pathetic that even the oldest of us will see through it…but you have to remember some spineless people are just looking for any excuse to vote no and there the ones who will latch on to this to somehow try and justify it
    there campaign has become so pathetic its not even worth the hassle anymore…i cant even get angry over this because it is just laughable

  135. Marcia says:

    Here is a better video to watch – Scotland Yet

  136. muttley79 says:

    Apparently oil revenues will be the sole source of money for an independent Scotland. No taxes at all. Apparently they’re only “£3 billion a year”, even though they’ve in fact NEVER been as low as £3bn since the Scottish Parliament existed and most sensible projections put receipts for the next few years at an average of at least twice that.

    No wonder loads of people in SLAB support independence. How did this guy get so far? Constantly talks utter pish, it really has got to the embarrassing stage. Brown is shameless, no doubt he wants to be in ermine in the Lords. Brown will do or say anything to get a reward from the British establishment, who mostly hate him anyway. God he must really, really hate people in Scotland.

  137. John says:

    I would invite all readers to click on the link in the story “never been as low as 3 billion”, and look at the historical price of a barrel of oil graph further down the page.

    The spike in the late 2000s, and later decline, and subsequent increase follows the exchange rate of pound to dollar during that period, as Bush Jnr put the dollar into ‘benign neglect’, to reduce the value of the USD, to force the Chinese to break their 8.27 Yuan to the USD peg (note that political decision on the part of the Chinese in regard to our own options on currency on independence!!!).

    Note the price at the start of the graph, in 2000. Around $30 a barrel. I had a job, from 2004 to 2009 on a project which was sanctioned based on a worst case scenario of $16/barrel.

    DO NOT let the lies on price get to you. £3 billion my hairy arse.

  138. Thepnr says:

    @Nana Smith

    Thanks, hahaha. Another BT vote No scare story bites the dust in an avalanche of FACTS.

  139. manandboy says:

    # gopher3 2014-08-21 16:01

    I believe he has just moved all his Aberdeen employees to a new Wood group company he’s set up in Guernsey, they will all still work in Aberdeen though,

    but he will save paying the HMRC around £15 million in tax each year.


    Sir Ian Wood

    From oil guru to tax dodger in 24 hrs.

  140. caz-m says:


    Anyone else notice on STV 6pm News the legendary John Mackay frown is getting deeper.

    Along with his bellowing booming voice, he is coming across as a really angry newsreader.

    I think he is trying to frighten every wee undecided granny in Scotland into voting NO.

  141. Anyone believe the spin Labour are putting about that Darling and Brown are now the bestest of pals and the decades of insults and back stabbing between the pair have been all forgiven and forgotten.

    I would suggest this load of old cobblers is part and parcel of Labour’s political theory for the Scotch hegemony, as in: The Scots zip up the back.

    The real scare is these Better Together – No Thanks numpties consider this to be ‘honest politics‘ and that they reflect all that is the best in Scotland and are the only side with integrity.

    Words fail me, either sophisticated or down right crude, to describe the contempt I am feeling towards these shallow political vermin of the lowest possible stripe.

  142. jon esquierdo says:

    Google the office of Gordon and Sarah Brown . This charity IMO is a tax scam . As lord Tebbit said Gordon Brown is a tax cheat.

  143. Nana Smith says:


    Aye Thepnr they all fall by the wayside after a few hours.
    Waiting to see Broon, Darling and the rest fall. That will make my day!

  144. scunnered says:

    how can he be a tax cheat…hes scottish he doesnt pay tax

  145. Thepnr says:


    “but you have to remember some spineless people are just looking for any excuse to vote no…”

    This is true, but I believe a great many more are desperately looking for any excuse to vote Yes. The media are not going to do it for them.

    Therefore it’s up to you and I. Let’s get busy scunnered. The people of this country will decide it’s destiny, not Westminster if we all make the effort during these last four weeks.

    You know the arguments now for Independence, you know the truth and the possibilities it offers. Make it your full time job to tell the rest of our people.

  146. Brian Mchugh says:

    Brilliant Marcia 🙂

    Been waiting on it for days (was supposed to be out on Monday)

    I have the DVD, but want loads of folk to see it.

  147. Marco McGinty says:

    Is anyone surprised? The man can’t even tell the truth about his own name!

  148. muttley79 says:

    I see Kezia Dugdale and co are becoming even more obsessed with Alex Salmond! It is becoming more and more creepy, you get the distinct impression that Dugdale in particular might even start stalking the FM…. What a bunch of utter twats.

  149. Nana Smith says:

    I took my dug to the groomers this afternoon and she told me info I had given her resulted in a few more Yessers.
    I gave her some more flyers today and will drop off a wwb next week.

    On my way home I saw a large YES poster on the door of a local hardware shop. I was fair chuffed.

  150. liz says:

    Re oil running out – This video is on Peter Bell’s blog.

  151. Croompenstein says:

    He is a fish moothed bastart

  152. caz-m says:

    Scottish yes voters trend in the UK with ‘#yesbecause’ Twitter drive.

  153. BB says:

    Sorry for the off-topic but if those interested in helping out with the referendum related duties such as overseeing counts, etc. would make it to the Off Topic thread that’d be great. 🙂

  154. YESGUY says:

    Just back from shop and had a chat with an old friend who had moved away.

    A YESSER so no need to convert. We are getting the message out and folk are hearing. As we get to 18th more will come. I can sense the change in a few now. Wishing we could vote now and it will be done and dusted. Freedom.

    Twitter is going crazy – Who believes the polls now. The young team are letting the whole world know why they will vote YES. Good on them.

    What a miserable dour lot the NO campaign are. Negativity on this scale can only work FOR us . Most , i feel, have issues with themselves. How they can vote for a union with Brown and the like completely amazes me. Some folk are just born stupid.

  155. Blair paterson says:

    I wonder if Gordon brown like his fellow m.p.murphy is a friend of Israel they are certainly no friends of Scotland Vote yes

  156. scunnered says:

    i totally agree theres a lot of people looking for an excuse to vote yes,thats why im so glad for this site and the wee blue book….everyday i try and tell people about the lies and point them to this site…but all the effort everybody puts in is totally wiped out by people like broon
    no oil,no gas,no wind,no rain,no tax,no whisky,no waves…no marmalade or shortbread lol…even the haggis are jumping across the border in there wee world

  157. Greannach says:

    Cyc @ 3:31

    They sold themselves out for their bank balances. That’s presuming they had something to sell out in the first place, or maybe like Douglas Alexander and Alistair Darling too, Labour was their only way to get on to the ladder of personal advancement, since they knew they’d never get elected as Blue Tories. What better than stand as a Red Tory?

  158. Blair paterson says:

    Sorry to go o.t . But as I have said before the polls are only the intentions of the people asked they are not the intensions of the whole of Scotland but the pollsters would like you to think that it is, as I say they are only fooling themselves do not be taken in by them vote yes

  159. UncleBob says:

    Who is this man? What has he turned into?
    Knew good old Gordie when he was a Tutor at Edinburgh Uni in the 1970’s. He was labour thru and thru. Now you can’t tell who’s Labour, Tory or demented.
    He should be ashamed of himself.

  160. Andy-B says:


    Here is the Wood report, page 3 paragraph 7 at the bottom **24 BILLION** barrels of oil.

  161. bugsbunny says:

    AndyC@6.10 You have no idea how close to the truth you are? Read your words again for the clue. Him and George Robertson allegedly had connections with Thomas Hamilton.


  162. heedtracker says:

    Channel 4 news just took a big Jon Snow poop on Salmond again. Scotland’s 2 nuclear power stations are staying open until 2023 but Scotland will apparently be totally green energy by 2020, so AlixSamin is liar. Ian Grey looks like he’s a loony bin escapee though.

    C4 news is not pro Scottish democracy at all, everywhere else is great, Scotland its bad.

  163. Greannach says:

    Uncle Bob – don’t think Brown was Labour to the hilt, unless you mean that the Labour Party was his preferred vehicle to personal enrichment. Of course, Labour and personal enrichment seem always to have gone hand in hand, just like Tory and personal enrichment, or Liberal and…. (you get the picture). Check out Brown’s ‘charity’ or Cherry Blair’s private healthcare company.

  164. Juteman says:

    We shouldn’t mock him. The poor man is confused, and doesn’t know where he is most of the time.
    The last time he was lost, he told a concerned journalist that he was from North Britain.
    Wandering the streets in your jammies is bad enough for the likes of us, but for an ex PM to be wandering about talking in tongues?
    I blame his nursing staff.

  165. Kryczek says:

    No wonder our economy went down the swanny if that eejit was in charge.

  166. deewal says:

    Sorry to go off topic but could you all bombard Channel 4 about this article ?

    I have left a comment but it is in moderation atm. There are no other comments but I have said that I will no longer be watching channel 4 as it is now apparent that they are a Tory mouthpiece.

  167. heedtracker says:

    And now Channel 4 news chatting to future teamGB big shot Nigel Farage. Monster AlicSamin, boost up Nigel Farage. Is teamGB trying to get us to vote UKIP much.

  168. The Rough Bounds says:

    Anyone with a brain knows that Broon is at it. He knows that we know but couldn’t give a stuff.

    I’m not exactly sure what his game is but I suspect a red cloak and a hint of ermine is at the back of it.

    He’s just playing at politics now and is merely ‘sooking up’ to the guys that hand out the gongs; he wants into the big boys’ gang.

  169. Edward says:


    It may be me, but the letters on the C4 site don’t quite look kosher

    Someone who is more familiar with the stationery of the Scottish Government should have a look

  170. Dan Huil says:

    C4 is just like the Guardian: the home of self-righteous lefties, except on the issue of Scotland’s independence when it turns into the mouthpiece of right-wing British nationalism. Hypocrites.

  171. andylmo says:

    What a Channel 4 ‘scoop’ on secret letters.

    They could of course have just read the published policy of the Scottish Govt as reported more than 2 years ago.

  172. GrahamB says:

    But that 3bn is at the moment being pooled and shared with the whole UK without any other revenue either, so surely if it all comes to us we will be better and rUK will be completely without any income i.e. bust.
    What an idiot he is and anyone who believes his lies.

  173. Ken500 says:

    The money raised in Scotland is £60Billion. (UK) Old Age Pensions is £6 Billion. Scotland has to pay UK Treasury £3Billion (surplus). £4Billion debt repayment on money Scoyland doesn’t borrow or spend. Scotland could save £1.5Billion on illegal wars/redundant weaponryTrident and £1.5Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol. = £10Billion enough for higher pensions.

    Gordon Brown is a disgrace. Where is the Chilcott Verdict?

  174. CameronB Brodie says:

    It is the ease with which Brown spouts his dishonest dissembling. that make me suspect there might be more than a touch of the sociopath about this one.

  175. deewal says:

    The whole thing is a smear. They have not posted my comment either. I suppose it was a bit too strong calling them a mouthpiece of Westminster. Could someone else comment and see if it gets posted. That Michael Crick is a real little shit.

  176. Geoff Huijer says:

    What a sad man.

    Shunned, ridiculed and disliked for being an egotistical so-n-so at Kirkcaldy High School 40 years ago…

    Some things never change.

    Leopards/spots etc.

  177. Dan Huil says:

    @ deewal. I posted a short reasonably polite comment 5 minutes ago. Nothing yet. It’s just another personal attack on Salmond from the MSM. It will backfire like all the other personal attacks on AS.

  178. Ken500 says:

    The £11Billion? NHS Bill is paid out of the £26Billion Block Grant. So is education, legal system etc.

  179. John in Fife says:

    The Bank of America has just been fined £10B for the Financial meltdown. Can Flipper and Brown tell me when I will get back the 33% I lost from my pension Fund

  180. The Rough Bounds says:

    Considering how MSM have been up to their necks in lies and attacks on Alex Salmond since this whole thing started perhaps we ought to change the name from Referendum to ‘the Smear Test’.

  181. snode1965 says:

    Regarding the sharing of sterling currency. Has AS not checked the history of our beloved pound? Since 1945 it has pegged to the US dollar with US lender of last resort, begging IMF to prop up sterling twice, then pegged to deutschmark, then to euro via ERM and finally floating in 1997. Yet according to AD these options would be a disaster for Scotland. WTF.

  182. fred blogger says:

    he was also a key architectural figure, as is new labour in general, in NHS privatization.
    establishing the PFI, NHS millstone, and privatization framework.
    as is discussed in dr lucy reynolds youtube vid, on the health and social care bill/act.

  183. Mick Says Yes says:

    It’s lucky there’s a Gent’s toilet behind him for the crap he is shovelling.

  184. Derrick says:

    Well if anyone would like to be there to see for themselves, they can. There’s a United with Labour evening with Gordon Brown, Alex Rowley and Margaret Curran at Beath High School, Cowdenbeath next Thursday at 6.30.
    “To reserve your space” Tel. 07502319561

  185. Chitterinlicht says:

    Shame evil man scaring the old people shame

    Table 1 £42bn tax just to start with 2012/13

  186. Kozmas left peg says:

    I’ve always suspected that the reason Brown and Darling will do anything to prolong this charade is that they both, as chancellor, had access to the full set of books. If and when independance comes the nation is going to be shocked by amount of money that has been flowing south for decades.
    They are complicit in the theft of Scotland’s wealth and are hastily trying to prevent the truth coming out.

    How any of the muppets listening to that could applaude sickens me.

  187. deewal says:

    Dan Huil
    Well well. They posted my comment and yours and Andy M’s.
    I’m in shock.

  188. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    Mr Salmond has been smeared and abused by the london media and london establishment for over a decade yet he still won a majority at holyrood. I believe most reasonable scots see this as anti scottish propaganda and stand by our first minister.

  189. Andy smith says:

    Nelliejean @4:02
    Sorry,you’ll have to join the back of the queue.. Currently 10 miles north of Inverness .

  190. Muscleguy says:


    The problem is from the doorsteps, just come back from a lot, the elderly Noes will not discuss the issue no matter how much you try. There are none so blind as those who will not see, no matter what.

    The number of times I have pointed out to people that they don’t need to like Alex Salmond to vote Yes, that they can vote for who they like after a Yes vote. But they are not interested.

    The saddest was an old guy sitting in a wheelchair who had been a Yes until the last debate but was now a No. He was SNP too. Eck had better perform on Monday.

    On Wednesday’s canvassing others said they encountered Yes voters who had dropped from 10s to 7s after the debate. He disappointed a lot of people. It is by no means everyone, just pockets, but there are people out there he lost.

    Still, shored up a couple of undecideds and persuaded one young mother she should definitely vote and why, she was not going to. I’ve registered a few Yes voters as well. All shoulders to the wheel in the final stretch. We can still win this. No rest until the 19th (be too tense to sleep with the counts coming in on the night of the 18th).

  191. IcySpark says:

    Here is tomorrow’s news: Now a Hammerblow for Salmond as More than 100 business leaders with Scottish operations are plotting to speak out against independence for the first time.

  192. Beanstalk says:

    The social security bill includes pensions.
    22 billion for pensions, unemployed etc..
    11 billion for NHS.
    6 billion for Education.
    =37 billion.

  193. Robert Peffers says:

    @gerry parker says: 21 August, 2014 at 3:42 pm:

    “I just got my “Why Independence will be the best thing for generations” booklet through the door. I hope those people clapping at the idiot Brown take the time to read it.”

    Oh! There’s still some of the old Labour, “Collie Dug”, voters around in Fife. The story was that if it had a Labour Rosette on its collar then these folk in Fife would vote for it. Thing was it was really true but not as the joker intended. It was because the Collie Dug was a bit more intelligent that the other candidates,(and a lot more useful).

    I kid you not – one of them I’ve known to speak to for 50 years walks past my gate at least every day while walking his dog. This particular day he came past as I was talking to my English neighbour, (married to a Scottish woman), who was asking me about Scottish independence. The dog walker stood a few moments then stuck his nose in. You tell him Bob why we will never be independent it’s all Labour here in Fife.

    My neighbour said, “Oh! Bob’s not Labour. That’s why I’m picking his brains”. The Dog walkers said, “He’s shairly no a Tory”? My neighbour said, “No Bob’s always been SNP”. At this the Dog Walker spat at my feet, said, “NLOODY SNP”, (loudly), and stomped off. He crosses the road now when he gets near my gate and turns and walks away if I’m walking towards him. My English neighbour was most unimpressed. He, (the English Neighbour), is now a soft YES and his wife is a definite YES.

    I think what I pointed out to him a couple of days ago might firm up his resolve. He has a disabled son and I asked him if he thought the services the son got would be safer under an independent Scottish Government or under a Westminster one.

  194. fred blogger says:

    deduct pensions as they are already paid for.

  195. Footsoldier says:

    Yes, off topic I know but the number of No Thanks signs in my area is very annoying rather than worrying.

    The thing is, they all seem to be located in the grounds of very large houses and the fields of “gentlemen” farmers.

    Why is this?

  196. Grouse Beater says:

    The curious aspect to Brown’s character is how much he was loathed and ridiculed as a Prime Minsiter by the British establishment, yet here he is enthusiastically doing their dirty work – with a modicum of Brown sauce to make it seem he isn’t a full fan.

    And then we have the even odder elevation of him by the press as a politician held in high regard in Scotland, the man to turn the tide of national pride to national cringe. Both he and they are seriously deluded.

  197. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. the elderly not wishing to debate the ‘truth’ (see above), supplied to them by the BBC and MSM. Apparently humans would not have been able to socialise as a species, without our particular brain chemistry being the way it is. In particular, the normalcy bias, which works through cognitive dissonance, to reward the individual with a chemical buzz if they maintain belief in the status quo.

  198. Capella says:

    @ Icy Spark
    Does anybody really care what these “Captains of Industry” think? I would like them to go now. If they are so hostile to a prosperous and fair society in Scotland then they should get out now and find a sufficiently corrupt country they would feel comfortable in. There would be plenty of decent companies who could move in and fill the gap.

  199. haud on the noo says:

    I refuse to click on the Torygraff link. Ah well another 100 to boycott…

    There must be some serious bribes, monetary or otherwise, flying around.

    Democracy my arse.

  200. Chitterinlicht says:

    USA banks planning to leave London if UK leaves EU?!

    post this up as you do not here much about it in ref campaign. It shows there is no certainty over future and we must always remember the simple rules of economics.

    Does Scotland have stuff that the world will buy?
    Will they pay us for it?
    In what currency?
    Any currency we want.

  201. fred blogger says:

    jsa for the whole of uk is just £5.9bn’d think it was trillions by the way they bang on about it!

  202. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not suggesting the elderly are a bunch of ‘buzz heads’ 🙂 . Rather that they will probably not have access to the information that would be required to overcome their in-built psychological desire to remain part of the dominant group.

  203. Jim D says:

    The Labour Party, Brown, Darling, Lamont et al are now politically and morally bankrupt and are desperately gambling on the only strategic device they have left in their armoury, their ultimate deterrent : Weapons of Mass Deception.
    They hope that if they chuck enough excrement at Scottish voters, some of it will stick. Project Fear, Project Smear and now finally, Project Brown Goebblesdegook.

  204. Another Union Dividend says:

    Interesting revelations about Ian Wood on Newsnet Scotland

  205. tartanfever says:

    Apologies for going O/T and if this is repeating what someone may have posted already. I haven’t checked, the dug needs to get out for a walk so I’m dashing out.

    The ‘Scotland Yet’ feature film by Jack and Chris that we’ve all seen trailers to and some have watched at various screenings around the country is now available to watch for free over on vimeo, here’s a link.

    Our very own Rev Stu has a cameo, the handsome fella.

    1hr and 12min of political hope, enjoy it.

    Oh, and if any of you guys are on twitter, get the word out.

  206. aldo_macb says:

    I read this article and many of the comments and thought surely Brown cannae be that bad. Then I braved watching the clip! He’s awful. Who in the world is so thick that they think Scotland’s only revenue is from oil. I can’t believe he got a clap for that.

  207. Kev says:

    So Scotland raises just £3bn in taxes but spends £40bn – so is subsidised to the tune of £37bn by Westminster – about the size of their defence think of all the useless aircraft carriers, nukes and wars sponging Scotland is preventing by “pooling” that resource away from rich England, give yourselves a big pat on the back folks and a thumbs up for the Union!

  208. Jim McIntosh says:

    Just – went onto The Telegraph website to read the article about the 100 business leaders warning against independence. Jesus there are some vile people commenting. Huge chips on their shoulders about Scotland. Quite disturbing.

    The more I read that sort of stuff the more I wish we HAD given them a vote in the referendum.

  209. Tamson says:

    The elderly are certainly a target vote – if only to turn “No”s into “Won’t Vote”. It’s terrifying to think the country’s long-term future lies in the hands of people whose own future is short-term.

    The “think of your grandchildren” tactic is quite effective.

  210. I note one or two references on here to the Senior Citizen Noes.

    I am a member of a retirement organisation here in Ayrshire and it is so infuriating, whenever the forthcoming referendum comes up, to see so-many other members, absolutely determined, in spite of having their spurious argumetns dismantled, turn round and say: “Maybe aye, but, I’ll still be voting No”.

    Also, I can confirm that so-many others in this age group will acknowledge the faults and lies from BT, but tell you: “Ay still canny vote for that Alex Salmond”.

    I somply don’t know what can be done against such closed minds.

    Jim Sillars’ “90-minute patriots” are still amongst us.

    Anent Broon. He was born in East Renfrewshire, but spent his formative years in Govan, where his faither was a minister. Broon was also a Sergeant in the BB.

    That’s a classic “Hun” upbringing; No Surrender, We Arra Peepul, etc. And, as we all know, the Greater Orange, Knuckle-dragging Hun isn’t the sharpest knife in the box.

  211. Johnny says:

    Capella @ 9:27pm

    Absolutely! I think people need to remember that this is exactly how the capitalist market that ‘captains of industry’ love so much works. If these business leaders don’t like what Scotland becomes, they can buzz off and others will appear in their place. Basic supply and demand.

  212. heedtracker says:

    What a Channel 4 ‘scoop’ on secret letters.

    They were very Severin Carrellish tonight. The actual story is a completely green Scotland by 2020! Then the common sense of keeping nuclear power going in case and for 3 years BUT Channel 4 merely shat on Holyrood or rather SNP Holyrood again for contrived hypocrisy and Ian Grey getting a free kick all to himself.

    What a relief to see the back of the teamGB media freak show Wonder if Jon Snow cares if half of Scotland thinks he’s an arse.

  213. Gary says:

    So EVERYTHING they say is a lie? I’ve been saying this every day about them since records began..

  214. ailsa craig says:

    Thought I might do a bit of stirring with the UK Government’s actions in the indyref. Checked the rules thoroughly. The Scottish Government is bound by very strict rules, but the UKG must only agree in principle to play fair, but it all depends on that foreign word to them ‘integrity’. If they break the rules it is only a moral breach, and nothing can be done.

    One possible solution about the ‘oldies’. Our Bridge Club plays in the community room of one of the town’s AgeConcern centres. I have printed out an abridged version of the WBB in A4 – intro and Chapter HOME. That takes car of their main moans, may catch them in bulk, and in print they can read easily. Hoping that I can just leave them on the information table; then will test the water for responses, and go in one lunch club day, and deal with any questions. Not all ‘grannies’ and ‘grandpas’ are ‘noes’, but most are, and I would think if I got at least a third DK/NOes into our camp, it would be worthwhile extending to the local sheltered housing blocks and care homes.

    Just an idea…….

  215. fred blogger says:

    borders in democracy are the hardest to break down once erected.
    since thatcher those borders to democracy have been hardened to be as granite, a 10 fold increase in scale.
    borders that have isolated individuals for so long now we have accepted them as a normality.
    this active yes campaign has awoken the urgency of people to break those borders down, they now begin to dissolve before our very eyes.

  216. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bugger (the Panda) says: 21 August, 2014 at 4:15 pm:

    “The man is either lying or mentally ill, and believes the shite he utters.”

    Well BtP, I’ve known Brown for a very long time. Even from before he was selected as a prospective candidate. My impression of him then was he was a very intelligent man.

    He most certainly is not like that same man now. Nor has he been so for a long time. You may be very much closer to the truth than you think you are.

  217. muttley79 says:


    The British establishment is only concerned about winning. This includes the MSM as well. They are employing a scorched earth policy; they want to keep their careers and perks at almost any cost. That is all they are interested in. They are not concerned at all about showing any respect to independence representatives and supporters. Nor do they care about any damage they do to Scotland, or the democratic process in general. These people have no political principles or morals at all. They have demonstrated that time after time since May 2011, when we knew there would be a referendum on independence.

  218. SquareHaggis says:

    PETTY BUT TRUE… kinda related

    The guy running our local Yes shop was having to measure a distance of 1.8m on the pavement outside the premises because the local council had told him his sign had to leave that exact amount of space for pedestrians to pass.

    Strangely this part of the street has had several similar signs on the selfsame patch of pavement for many years but suddenly now the Yes shop is open there has been ‘complaints’.


    Anyway, during this process, an angry looking elderly woman with a frowny face and awkward gait shouted (something abusive) our way from accross the street. Fortunately, or otherwise a lorry thundered past so we couldn’t hear.

    Puir wee sowel then scurried aff up the lane looking scared.

    Aye Gordon, hope yer proud o yerself man.

  219. Tom Foyle says:

    I made a dreadful mistake. I was eating a sandwich just as I started watching this slobbering fat lying sack of sh**. At 59 seconds, said sandwich ended up decorating the mantle mirror. I NEVER behave like that. I was so infuriated – and sickened. Ah, well, I’d lost my appetite anyhow.

  220. Papadox says:

    @muttley79 says: 10:53 pm

    Spot on Muttlley. The interesting thing is what happens in the event of a very close result in the negative. Are the establishment just going to shut their eyes hands over their ears and carry on?
    Will be very interesting.

    Looking back at UK history, they don’t have a good record.

  221. heedtracker says:

    They are bunch of…..rude words. Fcuk em. If I can see Im being taken for a fool everyone else can too.

    Tonight a EU voter thats moved over here that i drink with said she was voting Yes. I never push it buts she been on my list, so its the worry over the NHS that makes the real difference. Dont privatise Scots NHS basically. That’s me up to three swings from no/DK to Yes, which is not that much after CiFing like a loon sometimes but Margo said change one mind each and its all over:D

  222. X_Sticks says:

    Sir Tom Devine on Newsnight referendum special from Edinburgh

  223. X_Sticks says:

    muttley79 says:

    “you get the distinct impression that Dugdale in particular might even start stalking the FM”

    Hehe, I was having fun last night with Kezia

  224. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T but important

    As BB says above, some information and discussion for those interested in helping out with the referendum related duties such as overseeing counts on Off Topic.

  225. muttley79 says:

    @X Sticks

    Dugdale is really, really creepy with this Salmond obsession…


    If you have not seen this meeting then you realy should. Particularly listen to Phillipa Whiteford when she does her speech she explains more about privatisation of NHS and then listen to the first two questions and her answers about the NHS. That will have a cold shiver running all over you. Frightening.

    When she tells you all about T-Tip (i’ve spelt it as she said it) absolutely frightening.

  227. Transatlantic Trading Pand Investment Partnership.

    If a country signs up to this and then say has a smoking ban, then the tobacco companies have the right to sue that country for costing the company. This treaty is way more powerful than any country, EU courts etc

  228. Robert Peffers says:

    @gerry parker says: 21 August, 2014 at 5:55 pm:

    “I guess if he gets ermine we could call him Lord Haw Haw.”

    Mair lik Laird Hee Haw!

  229. colly says:

    Guys, does anyone know where I can buy the saltire flags with the YES printed on them from? Going to hang a couple out our flat windows!

  230. Sheena W says:

    I may have said this before.

    On a personal level I have always got on well with Gordon Brown BUT because of his raid on the pension funds the private pension that I paid into for 35 years – planning it would be enough to pay my fuel bills, the rates/poll tax/community charge and maybe a bit towards Christmas presents – now nets me just about enough to pay one quarterly gas and electric bill with £20 over for a Chinese takeaway for two! Now, I am actually fairly comfortable through other things, but it bugs the hell out of me that I will be well over a 100 before I even get back what I paid in.

    Even more, it boils my blood that hundreds of thousands of decent working people who did without wee luxuries to put away a bit for their retirement are having to choose between putting the heating on or having a decent meal because not only was their pension shredded but it is usually just enough to disqualify them from the pretty bluidy inadequate benefits that are available. If I had been in that audience there might have been skin and hair flying!

  231. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT, but I couldn’t resist and these historical events aren’t generally covered in school, are they? Most folk have had their ‘formal’ education by the time they leave school, so their understanding of what mindset has and continues to same Britain’s ‘world leading’ future, is incomplete.

  232. PeeGee says:

    I see the metro luvvie prick in charge of channel 4 has managed to give a speech in Edinburgh about the future of TV without a single mention of the word Scotland or Independence. Well done him.

  233. Les Wilson says:

    O/T A very interesting interview with the guy from the Adam Smith Institute, he was on STV and BBC2.

    The makes the claim that Scotland would be better off using Sterlingisation, like Panama. STV interviewed a top guy in Panama, who informed that they have been doing this system for a 1oo years. He says Scotland should do it, as the A.Smith Inst, does.

    Panama is almost spoken about on STV and BBC/ Unionists as something of a banana republic, however it is actually very far from that. STV’s Rhona had to inform us that “well it seems Panama is doing rather er, well!”

    Sterlingisation involving aspects of the old Scottish way of Banking seems to be a very doable thing. The Institute says it is ideal for Scotland, and will make the country very stable AND rich. Hmmmm, this will send shivers down Westminster’s back. Great!

  234. shug says:

    I have just been on the herald web site and noticed that the pro independence articles are behind the pay wall while the anti independence can be read in full

    Is this my imagination??

  235. Robert Peffers says:

    @fred blogger says: 21 August, 2014 at 8:48 pm:

    “He was also a key architectural figure, as is new labour in general, in NHS privatization.
    establishing the PFI, NHS millstone, and privatization framework. As is discussed in dr lucy reynolds youtube vid, on the health and social care bill/act.”

    Not to mention that it was Labour that brought in the Bedroom Tax.

  236. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry folks….

    Most folk have had their ‘formal’ education by the time they leave school, so their understanding of what mindset has and continues to shame Britain’s ‘world leading’ future, is incomplete.

    Think Gazza.

  237. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @PeeGee –

    The Edinburgh Festival has hee-haw to so with Scotland and/or people who live here. It’s an annual sojurn for metropolitan elites who don’t have enough available space to mount anything remotely similar in their own backyard.

    Post-Yes, they’ll expect precisely the same deference and, you know what? They’ll get it. (Difference is, they’ll just get it from property-owning Edinburghers, and even then, just for the fortnight.)

  238. Robert Peffers says:

    @Derrick says: 21 August, 2014 at 8:55 pm:

    “Well if anyone would like to be there to see for themselves, they can. There’s a United with Labour evening with Gordon Brown, Alex Rowley and Margaret Curran at Beath High School, Cowdenbeath next Thursday at 6.30.
    “To reserve your space” Tel. 07502319561”

    The Bad, The worse & the Ugly.

  239. fred blogger says:

    Robert Peffers
    and ATOS, the WCA, JSA, ESA, with the birth of brutal sanctions and conditionality.
    they also changed DRS contracts, with a big increase in pay, on condition that they did not interfere with political decisions.

  240. Patrician says:

    @Les Wilson

    re Panama, how ironic is this:
    “In 2011, Panama found that Darién held oil reserves of more than 900 million barrels, according to a report by consulting company OTS Latin America LLC.”

  241. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 21 August, 2014 at 9:41 pm:

    “I’m not suggesting the elderly are a bunch of ‘buzz heads’ . Rather that they will probably not have access to the information that would be required to overcome their in-built psychological desire to remain part of the dominant group.”

    Cameron, Could you stop with the anti-elderly sweeping generalisation, Please?

    Read these comments and you will see many of us are elderly and some, me included, have been SNP or for independence since long before Salmond was born. We were fighting this battle when we were very, very thin on the ground.

    The point is that those old folk you are meeting have been Labour, Tory of LibDem for equally long years. A sort of, “My Party – right or wrong”.

  242. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    Robert, I would have thought my comment might have been understood in the context of the ongoing discussion. I meant no offense to yourself or anyone of advancing age. I would apologise, however, no offense was intended.

    No hard feelings and I will try to avoid further offense.

  243. Brian Mchugh says:

    Socrates McSporran; “That’s a classic “Hun” upbringing; No Surrender, We Arra Peepul, etc. And, as we all know, the Greater Orange, Knuckle-dragging Hun isn’t the sharpest knife in the box.”

    …you do yourself no favours with that comment Socrates. Sectarianism in all of its forms is primitive and abhorrent… your language serves to draw you into that catagory.

  244. deewal says:

    Robert Peffers
    Thank you. I’m 68. English. Lived in Scotland since 1978. Member of SNP. Former Labour Voter. Were not all f***ing stupid.

  245. CameronB Brodie says:

    What is offensive about saying the elderly are less likely to have access to the internet, or be active on social media? It is certainly not an ageist comment, or is it?

  246. Lockie says:

    Just keep a microphone on him all the time, cos the real Broon comes oot when there’s no audience

  247. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 22 August, 2014 at 12:39 am:

    “Robert, I would have thought my comment might have been understood in the context of the ongoing discussion. I meant no offense to yourself or anyone of advancing age. I would apologise, however, no offense was intended.>/b>

    Perhaps I didn’t quite make my point clearly enough. (I’m not offended, BTW). It is that intransigent Naysayers are far from being confined to elderly people but the elderly may be rather more set in their ways. Never forget also that some, like myself, have spent a lifetime working with information technology. It was us, if you think about it, that designed and built computers and such like. There are every bit as many thickos in all age groups too. Notwithstanding such evils as dementia, old people do not become less intelligent with age. Geriatric means old, not daft.

  248. charlie says:

    Gordon Brown warns about Indepence economy. Fuckin quality cheek to proclaim about that…Spread that thru Fife if nowhere else, where’s an MP that can look forward to a healthly lordhsip unless we vote Yes. Yeah it’s Gordon Brown.

  249. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    Of course Robert, your generation invented the digital age we now live in and are certainly as smart as any previous generation. I was making absolutely NO reference to intelligence, but was instead making the point that we are ALL living creatures and so subject to biological impulses.

    As I said, no offense was intended, so crossed wires perhaps?

  250. Cuilean says:

    He says “We benefit from sharing our resources as part of the United Kingdom” … twice. It’s a wonder he can leave his house with all that fear he’s generating. He says we can offer the world something and lead the world but how can we when we only generate 3 billion pounds per annum, Mr Brown? Truly cringeworthy stuff. But the sheer audacity of his bare faced lies are quite awesome.

  251. Barontorc says:

    RP and Cameron B, people, old, young, middle years, are totally entitled to their opinion and they do have but one vote.

    Right now we’re well ahead, because not only is there a very positive case made for life as an independent country, but Westminster seems hell bent on sticking more and more disincentives right in our faces and the only thing I worry about now is what bag of dirty tricks have they got up their sleeve, because Scotland is too big, enormously huge in fact, for these people to leave us to get on with it. Life ain’t like that, they’re used to the milch cow of Scotland.

  252. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Sorry just cannot watch that man. He is a disgrace to his country.

  253. YESGUY says:

    Well said Robert P

    The hardest no voters i know are the 45-55 gp. They talk miners strikes, poll tax and losses to shipbuilding and steel, and tend to be blind Labour loyals.

    They put party above country. I have had a few scraps with them and nothing on earth will change their views.

    The pensioners realise how hard it is to heat and feed themselves after years of contributing and now know they are paid a pittance.

    The young have no such blind loyalty . They can google in an instant and info from MSM is always viewed as spin. The young get bad press and govt are harder on the young than anyone barr our pensioners.

    Someone tell me how to get through to the blind loyals and we’ll canter over the finish line with a huge YES.

    The D/K are my biggest gripe and their excuses that they don’t have enough info really annoys me. They must know where they stand by now , surely.

    We should handle them with kid gloves i know but the fact they have no idea now with a few weeks to go shows they lack the courage to make a decision, and by that token will more than likely vote no . Feared of what they might lose or any change.

  254. Faltdubh says:


    Seen the Adam Smith lad on both Sco2014 and ScoTonight. He was brilliant and very concisce, clear.

    Big Yes announcement tomorrow apparently. I hope it’s not Salmond’s retirement from mainline politics!

    Paul Hutcheon @paulhutcheon · 13h

    Senior @thesnp source: ‘This will be one of Salmond’s last FMQs.’ #indyref

  255. Faltdubh says:

    Or maybe something with Ferugson?

  256. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says:22 August, 2014 at 12:55 am:

    “What is offensive about saying the elderly are less likely to have access to the internet, or be active on social media? It is certainly not an ageist comment, or is it?”

    As I pointed out already. Whatever makes you think the elderly less likely to be computer literate? Who the hell did you think was designing, building and repairing both the electronic wonders you have today? Not to mention the programs and computer languages used today? What age is Garry Kildal that Bill Gates bought the first BIOS system from that made PCs what they are today?

    I worked on computers when they had thermionic vales, PO type selectors and relays in them. Here’s a wee story for you. I worked on a government top secret computer that was built into a couple of aircraft hangers stuck together. These had high racks with lots of twin triode vales in them. Valves get hot and are affected by temperature change so were temperature and air conditioned. They thus attracted every bloody insect for miles around.

    We used to go around these racks and open up suspect drawers. Open up the contacts of the relays and selectors, and poke out the insects stuck between the contacts and clean the contacts. Have you heard the modern expression, “A bug in the Program”? They were real, (mostly dead), bugs.

    I kid you not.

  257. steven Seagull says:

    @ cindie

    So sorry to hear about your mum being terrorised by the likes of ratboy broon.

    Don’f forget aboot his creepy best pal. Evil witch, joker rowling.

    Her crappy books are the sign of a twisted sick mind.

    Donates a milion quid to the scum that occupy our land.

    Dreadful wummin.

    Kind regards.

  258. Robert Peffers says:

    @YESGUY says: 22 August, 2014 at 1:25 am:

    “The D/K are my biggest gripe and their excuses that they don’t have enough info really annoys me. They must know where they stand by now , surely.”

    We can hardly blame them for not knowing can we, YESGUY?
    After all at yesterday’s FMQ’s we had several party leaders claim that they don’t know what an independent Scotland’s currency will be. This after every YESSER in the Country has been screaming at them for what seems forever that Scotland will use the pound Sterling and for preference in a currency union.

    So now they have been told the preference is a currency union the choice of plan depends upon Better Together. So what is their plan A?

  259. mr thms says:


    “Big Yes announcement tomorrow apparently. I hope it’s not Salmond’s retirement from mainline politics!

    Paul Hutcheon @paulhutcheon · 13h

    Senior @thesnp source: ‘This will be one of Salmond’s last FMQs.’ #indyref”

    He could announce his intention to step down, so he can participate in the negotiations with the rUK and the EU following the Yes vote

  260. Jack Beck/Scotus says:

    Sorry for the O/T

    Very sad to learn of the death of Jean Redpath – wonderful ambassador for traditional Scottish music around the world.

  261. YESGUY says:

    I would hope we don’t lose A.Salmond

    He’s a fantastic politician, although most would think he might retire after a YES and Nichola can lead the charge in an election.

    Love him or hate him he’s so much better than ANY of the rest

  262. liz g says:

    Robert and Cameron
    you are both talking at cross purposes
    My mum and her pals are exactly what Cameron is talking about
    so I think he made a fair point
    But Robert’s also correct in reminding us who got this technology up and running
    As two of my favourite posters please don’t argue xx

  263. CameronB Brodie says:

    Some facts about internet use and social networking, by age group (probably not the best source but hopefully enough to put this one to bed).

    Social networking has broad appeal and although its use is lower amongst the older population, its use is not exclusively limited to younger age groups. In 2012, 62% of adults aged 35 to 44, and 40% of adults aged 45 to 54 used social networks to communicate online.

    Over eight in ten (83%) of adults now go online using any type of device in any location. Nearly all 16-24s and 25-34s are now online (98%), and there has been a nine percentage point increase in those aged 65+ ever going online (42% vs. 33% in 2012).

    Nite nite. 😉

  264. steven Seagull says:

    -Je me souviens-

  265. geeo says:

    O/t but liked this comment i got sent by a pal earlier.
    “In the event of a nuclear war the only things that will survive are the cockroaches. Which means Britain should still have a functioning government”.

  266. bookie from hell says:


    My side is clearly going to win the Referendum. All this “some Labour voters will vote Yes” (true) and “people who have never voted before will vote this time” (less true), can’t disguise the fact that even areas that have consistently returned SNP members of Parliament and local authorities for the best part of twenty years; patently, even there, voters have no intention of endorsing Independence.

    Once the dust settles the margin will be important but that is not how it will feel for either side in the early hours of 19th September.

    bfh–he’s saying margin is important ,5%,10%,20%?

  267. steven Seagull says:

    O/T : Cynicus in exile on the hootsmon.

    Hullo Jim Sillyarse.

    Rabid loathing and jealousy of Mr Salmond PM.

    A hundred times the man you are. Always was.


  268. john king says:

    Robert Peffers says
    “The Bad, The worse & the Ugly.”

    In what order?

  269. Grendel says:

    Les Wilson 11:56pm
    I was at Jim Murphys soapbox tour in Airdrie on Monday.
    He started on about Salmond having no Plan B, a few persistent shouts from the crowd got him to admit that yes, he knew what Plan B was, before he went on to explain it in detail.

    “We’d be like Panama!” he sneered.
    “Is Panama a diddy country then?” I asked
    “Don’t insult Panama” said Mr Murphy.
    “You started it…” says I.

  270. Grendel says:

    Robert Peffers said:
    “Never forget also that some, like myself, have spent a lifetime working with information technology”

    Don’t forget, some haven’t.

  271. Grouse Beater says:

    That’s an enjoyable anecdote, Grendel.

    The No’s nasty spin doctor, John McTernan – a professional liar – says Murphy’s tour has been a ‘triumph.’

    As I keep saying, self-governance is a great opportunity to jettison the second-rate and the mediocre to raise our standards.

  272. CameronB Brodie says:

    Apologies, the internet and social media stats I posted last night, actually came from this source. Oops. 🙂—households-and-individuals/social-networking–the-uk-as-a-leader-in-europe/sty-social-networking-2012.html

  273. CameronB Brodie says:

    liz g
    I forgot to say thanks. 😉

  274. CameronB Brodie says:

    Honestly, I’m not a preper. 🙂

  275. macart763m says:

    @Grendel 6.05 am

    Nice one. 🙂

  276. bunter says:

    Cant believe Lamont said yesterday after FMQ’s that they needed to win this ”war”. Labour see the democratic debate as a ”war”. Shocker! We must be the enemy.

  277. goldenayr says:

    I think I’ve just found the most idiotic piece about the ref.

  278. CameronB Brodie says:

    I didn’t keep the link, but I posted more lunacy from that publication, a wee while back. All about how Scotland’s self-determination will harm the interests of the working class. The Yes campaign is a neo-liberal Trojan horse, apparently, which will drive down wages and undermine international socialism. If I remember correctly, the author stoped short of suggesting independence would be a calamity for world peace, but only just. 😉


  279. Johnny says:

    bunter @ 7:46

    Yes, it’s telling that No sees this as all about ‘sides’ and ‘wars’ and ‘winning’. I tend to see it as about what I think will be a good thing for all people (be they, Scots, English, Welsh, Irish, Polish, Indian….you get the picture) who live within Scotland’s geographical territory. I want them ALL to ‘win’. The tragedy of SLAB is that they could not give a fig about far too many of us.

  280. john king says:

    Got as far as
    “Coming a month before the referendum on Scottish independence on September 18, the statement was calculated to appeal to nationalist sentiment with its invocation of the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320. Wild ahistorical claims have been made by nationalists that the declaration, which took the form of a letter to the Pope asking for his support against England from a group of noblemen loyal to King Robert the Bruce, was Scotland’s equivalent of the American Declaration of Independence.”

    and gave up Goldenayr

    “Scotlands equivalent of the American declaration of independence”?
    except that it pre dated it by 456 years and was the template for the America declaration of Independence!
    dear sweet Jesus,
    written by a chimp obviously

  281. Jim Marshall says:

    Jack Beck/Scotus 2.07

    “Very sad to learn of the death of Jean Redpath – wonderful ambassador for traditional Scottish music around the world.”

    Scotland is the poorer on the passing of Jean. One of the greatest ever exponents of our folk music, she leaves a legacy of recorded performances including songs by Burns which she delivered word perfect in a clear soprano voice.

  282. heedtracker says:

    “Abraham urged politicians and regulators to act decisively to “update and strengthen” the UK’s PSB system, a great British invention that had “created the best conditions for creative programme-making on the planet”.

    Savage Scottish democracy, endless Big Bang Theory repeats, Jon Snow losing his memory live.

    Another day of teamGenglandB bollox.

  283. goldenayr says:

    john king

    Struggled on far another paragraph but went crosseyed and my head started to spin uncontrollably.

  284. seanair says:

    Jim Marshall (and everyone else)
    The dotScot people are launching the new domain on 23rd September and have indicated that they might be able to have dotScot e-mail addresse by then or shortly after.
    I have no idea how the e-mail thingy will work but anything will be better than Yahoo which in my ignorance years ago I adopted.

  285. Macart says:


    She said that did she? I suppose we have to keep in mind the woman has been living in a bunker for the past several years, wheeled out only to spit venom and then promptly wheeled back in again right after her weekly moan. Lack of vitamin D or some such.

    Or we could go with she’s a dangerous party tribal idiot, who frankly couldn’t care less about the effects her campaign is having on the electorate now or indeed for years to come. But then Labour aren’t big on care for the welfare of the electorate these days, they have far more important things to do like crush Alicsammin and win elections.

  286. Les Wilson says:

    Patrician says:

    Hi, that was interesting, thanks for the link!

  287. goldenayr says:

    CameronB Brodie

    I know it claims to be socialist but it would be on a par with the SLab rantings.

    I think they might be Lamonts speechwriter,run by McTernan.

  288. Jim Marshall says:

    seanair 8.15

    Thanks for the info. I too will be looking to get a .scot address.

  289. john king says:

    Goldenayr @8.15

    In which case I’ll go back and try again but if my head explodes your getting the cleaning bill.

  290. ronnie anderson says:

    @ X Sticks. left a message for you at 8.18 in O/T thanks.

  291. goldenayr says:


    Read that Channel4 one earlier.

    Nearly pipped the mad socialist in the stupid table.

  292. goldenayr says:

    john king

    Got it saved,going to save a fortune in red wine.

    Note to self-unplug internet before reading.

  293. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @goldenayr –

    That WSWS piece seems to be from the same belters who tried to disrupt the SSP public meeting in Kilwinning last week.

  294. john king says:

    nope sorry but again the lunatic ramblings of that nutcase Jordan whatshisname left me in a state of fugue, the second he mentioned the Scottish banks was a warning that my blood pressure was getting dangerously high, and the fact you (no surprises) cant reply to that meaningless gibberish was enough for me.

    O/t I smell a rat on BBC when they reported that both better together and Yes campaigns have been banned from schools, since the impression Im getting is better together already have their very own propaganda campaigners right there in the classrooms!

  295. heedtracker says:

    @ goldenayr, thick and thicker, I wouldn’t mind if it was just party politics but these shitheads are destroying the future of Scotland or they’re our saviours from ourselves.

    One disastrous former unelected PM says it’s a few billion oil taxation another super rich old git says it’s a wee bit more but a lot less than what he said months ago and he says he’s neutral and is warning teens because they won’t have an oil industry in 15 years time, despite the fact that same super rich shyster was advising exact same teenies to pile into the job for life in the North Sea oil patch.

    Who to believe uncle Ian or uncle Gordon kids?

  296. ronnie anderson says:

    Well lads n lasses good day yesterday, WBB & I got a signed copy from the Printers manager, meeting Kendo today so wont be available other than Moby.

  297. bunter says:


    That’s what Gerry Hassan and others were tweeting this morning.

    Must be the war against the ”virus”. That’s us.

  298. Desimond says:


    First and foremost, you,I and everyone here will always be a VIRUS in the eyes of Johann and her Gravy Train slurpers.

  299. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m a weed. Flubadubdub. 🙂

  300. ronnie anderson says:

    Oh I have no faith in Gordon
    all the lies he tries to share
    naebody listening tae the muppet
    they jist sit there an stare.

  301. goldenayr says:

    Sooo…all agreed then?

    The days got off to a good start.

    Off to have trawl round the comments on newspaper politics sites and see if it’s possible to perform a lobotomy without a drill.

  302. ronnie anderson says:

    Ur the DDOS back mylast posts disappered

  303. goldenayr says:

    Didn’t get very far.

    Anyone spare a few braincells?

    Mine are on strike demanding sensible rational discussion.

  304. CameronB Brodie says:

    It might just be key words in your post getting stopped by the filter, Ronnie.

  305. Macart says:

    @Bunter and Desimond

    Unfucking believable. These idiots should have minders or at least carry a public health warning stamped on their lapel.

    Do they not see or realise the societal damage they are causing with this language, this approach to winning a precious point scoring exercise? They are causing more division within the public than independence ever could. The whole point of public service is care for your communities whether they back your particular opinion or not. What Lamont and Labour are ably demonstrating is that they are not fit to care for anyone.

    Frankly the thought of someone waging war, bayonetting, or eradicating the virus that is half their electorate being in charge scares me shitless. People who casually use this sort of language against those who disagree with them will never see my vote again nor I would imagine the vote of many who currently are involved in the YES campaign.

  306. galamcennalath says:

    So Lamont thinks it’s a war! Does that mean Scotland can seek reparations when we win?

  307. Hewitt83 says:


    Apparently if we leave the United Kingdom we won’t be part of Britain anymore.

    It never fails to amaze me the amount of people who don’t know the difference.


  308. heedtracker says:

    This is nice. Super rich tycoon Sir Ian last year enters the debate with his “we need 30 000 young apprentices”, yesterday Sir Ian told them all teamGB oil and gas would run out by the time they hit 30. It’s not exactly a very good example to teach young people is it Sir Ian.

    Bullshit kids about great careers in oil and gas one day, the next tell them there’s only a few years work left.

    Future Lord Brown must be kicking himself he didn’t cook up an even bigger UKOK whopper.

  309. heedtracker says:

    Britain is an archipelago, not an island, one of earths biggest too:D

  310. bunter says:

    Well said Macart!

    Just visited my old mum and dad this morning and they said they got a phone call from someone last night asking what way they would vote in the referendum.

    My poor old mum, bless her, answered she is voting for ”Salmond”, at which point the phone was slammed down lol.

    I have been keeping mum and dad on board for over a year, explaining things in detail, but they still think Salmond’s name will be on the ballot paper.

    Power of the media, eh!

  311. Hewitt83 says:

    A friend, previously a No voter, just sent me a text saying sign me up to the Yes campaign.

    He read the WBB last night.

    There is a stunning change of pace here, this WBB needs to be sent far and wide!

  312. ronnie anderson says:

    @ CameronB, I was just saying that its a long time since you sent me comma’s,lol hows you doing.

  313. bunter says:

    @ Desimond

    Aye its quite scary how SLab see those who don’t conform to their view on the world.

    We’ve had, Nazis, virus, Bayonetting, The Dambusters strategy, blood and soil, and that’s just from the NO campaign politicians!!

  314. Matt Seattle says:

    “goldenayr says:
    22 August, 2014 at 7:51 am
    I think I’ve just found the most idiotic piece about the ref.

    OK I should be working, but my curiosity was piqued. I particularly enjoyed the irony of the conclusion:

    “The Socialist Equality Party insists that a precondition for the construction of such a movement is the rejection of all forms of nationalism and separatism, and is calling for a decisive “no” vote in the referendum on 18 September.”

    In other words, to achieve world socialism, the British Imperialist State must be preserved at all costs. You couldn’t make it up – but Jordan Shilton just did.

  315. bunter says:

    YES just tweeted that we have the million!!

  316. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T

    The Indy Quines are needing some financial assistance to keep on the road. They are doing a fantastic job here in Aberdeen/Shire getting those all important Women’s votes and deserve your help:

    “Hi Everyone
    I hate to do this but the Indy Quines are skint. In the past two months we’ve held events, been traveling all over the vast area of Aberdeenshire to give talks and be on stalls talking to folk and we’ve run out of cash.”

    Donate here:

  317. CameronB Brodie says:

    Not bad Ronnie, I hope you are also well. What a cracking morning.

  318. heraldnomore says:

    I’m hearing the Yes Declaration has had it’s millionth signature added. Target reached. On course. Let’s Go.

  319. JBS says:

    I don’t know what Lamont hopes to get out of this. It’s unlikely that she’ll ever be FM because the majority of the people of Scotland know that given the opportunity she would turn Scotland into a Tory wet dream.

    Frowning is Lamont’s default facial expression. I think she is perpetually outraged that anyone should dare to question her and doubt the truth of what she says. One day soon she will frown so intensely that her face will fold in on itself, and that will be worth seeing.

    Vote Yes to Scottish independence on September 18 and watch Johann Lamont’s face implode.

  320. Macart says:


    Good for her. 😀

    I still think their tack on Alex Salmond will backfire y’know. They’ve basically told the Scottish electorate you’re all stupid for having given the SG such a big mandate to run the country. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not big on people insulting me on a daily basis for three years. I’m sure I’m not alone in that reasoning. 😉

  321. Macart says:



    YES. 😀

  322. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Jim Marshall and others

    I own the domain

    Which I will activate at the end of September.

  323. Desimond says:

    @Bugger (the Panda)

    Im still shocked that the impact of a YES vote on I.T hasnt been raised by the NO campaign.

    All businesses,having to get new .scot addresses ( and updated stationery, and business cards!)

    All these drop down country menus needing to have Scotland added.

    Its the McIllenium Bug ( I hereby claim copyright to that gag)

  324. galamcennalath says:


    The continuous insulting of AS has been annoying, but also puzzling. Why do they feel the need to ‘play the man’ so much? Especially since, one way and another, he continually proves himself to be popular. Doesn’t strike me as a clever tactic.

    Mind you, it is obvious that those MSM entities which are worst are those with low Scottish circulation. That’s even more puzzling, why demonise AS to an English audience?

  325. X_Sticks says:


    WooHoo! 3 weeks to go and the million busted! Pure dead brilliant.

    Here we, here we, here we fn GO!

  326. Desimond says:

    @galamcennalath Macart

    I often see Labour in the role of the former abusive lover who stands on the fringes watching a former love enjoy new company and can only shout abuse as they slowly drown sad, unheard and alone in their own self pity.

    Which is nice.

  327. CameronB Brodie says:

    Don’t all shout at once, but I’ve not signed yet. I’m sure I’m not the only supporter in that position, so support will be even better than it appears.

  328. Macandroid says:

    @ Sinky

    New slogan – “It’s Scotland’s coal”!

  329. @ Bugger (The Panda)

    Bookmarked that – can’t wait till I see what you are going to do – Genius registration.

  330. Nana Smith says:


    Saw your tweet very late last night or should I say this morning!

    Some of the reasons brought a tear to my eye.

  331. galamcennalath says:


    The only teeny weeny reservation I have about Independence is that SLab continue is their present form, with the same anti-Scottish attitudes, and with the same individuals. And, because of historical success manage to maintain some presence.

    My view is that anyone who has talked down their country cannot represent it post Independence. I don’t include all Unionist, just those which have lied and tried to deceive.

  332. caz-m says:


    So Ian Wood tells young people to start an apprenticeship in the oil and gas industry a couple of months ago.

    The young people take his advise and start in one of Ian Wood’s apprenticeship schemes.

    Then two days ago, the same Mr Wood tells them to forget what he told them about having a lifetime’s career in the oil industry, there is actually only fifteen years of work left.

    Do these young people have case for taking Ian Woods to court for giving out false information which played a part in their choice of career path.

    A lot of these young people might have been going to go into a completely different industry, but were given a bullshit story about a job for life, then told months later that there was only fifteen years of work left.

  333. Macart says:

    @Galamcennalath and Desimond

    In light of Chris Darroch’s tweet and image do they still think its a great idea to threaten over a million of their own electorate with bayonetting, war and viral eradication?

  334. galamcennalath says:


    A flaw in your question. You use the verb “think”. It cannot be applied to those in question. They literally have not thought through what they say.

  335. Desimond says:


    Theyre done.

    “Game over man” as Bill Paxton would say in Aliens.

    Scottish Labour do not actually exist. Its just a name on a badge, not a registered party. Therefore a new “Labour in Scotland’ ( I was tempted to write LLP at the end there as wouldnt put it passed them!) will have to be created and there is NO way it can be controlled by Westminster based Miliband and Friends.

    There will be revolt and revolution in their ranks but a change must come, whether they go further right or back to centre ( they will never go Left ever again) that remains to be seen but the current embarrassing shower will be no more.

    Which is also nice.

  336. Nana Smith says:

    Tune in to REF tv at 1pm today. One of the guests is George Foulkes [oooh yuk I don’t think I want to see that]

    It won’t do my blood pressure any good!

  337. Cindie says:

    @Stephen Seagull Thanks,

  338. Macart says:


    Good point. 🙂

  339. goldenayr says:

    Matt Seattle

    You must have the constitution of an Ox.

    I don’t think any of us made it past 3 paragraphs.

    I still feel queasy.

  340. farrochie says:

    galamcennalath says:
    22 August, 2014 at 9:46 am

    “teeny weeny reservation I have about Independence is that SLab continue”

    But presumably, they will have to register SLab as a party in Scotland as it does not currently exist.

  341. Nana Smith says:

    That lying creature Brown is at it again today. There is also a poll asking if the NHS will be safer after a yes or no vote.

  342. heedtracker says:

    @ caz-m, sociopaths protecting their riches and power. Ian Wood destroyed his legacy and reputation yesterday. Ofcourse there’s a lifetimes career in Scots oil, the nasty old git.

    Right now in Aberdeen, you can earn £800 a day if you have a strong BEng and 10 years oil expro experience. Think about that thar figure, a quarter of a million quid a year for engineers and it’s not down to dudes like Sir Ian being all nice and generous, it’s because there’s a chronic shortage of construction engineers in teamGB. And why is there a massive UKOK shortage? Because these bizarre characters like Crash and Wood do not plan anything. They have no interest in the future or vision or foresight.

    And ofcourse they do but planning the future costs, investment in people costs, and the costs bite into their profits and even if investment now means longer, bigger, sustainable long returns, fuck all that, I want my hundred million dividend now!

    So now we have huge skills shortage, vastly distorted pay levels, and sir Ian wood flip flopping around to keep the status quo.

    Norway’s run it’s oil industry almost exactly the opposite from teamGB and they don’t have massive pay spikes, their pay levels are and always have been 3 times that of UKOK.

    Wonder why.

  343. JWil says:

    Should anyone have missed it last night on Newsnight, Kirsty Wark had a line up of people talking about the referendum from an Edinburgh festival venue, in front of an audience.

    They were an evenly balanced group (YES and NO supporters), but what surprised me was the woman Professor who was introduced as the top historian for the UK, who seemed incapable of saying anything without throwing her arms about and was very hesitant and slow in her delivery. This woman wasn’t young and should have had a lifetime of experience doing university lecturing and talking to people on her subject, but you would never have guessed.

  344. goldenayr says:

    Nana Smith

    Good to see the majority don’t think it will be worse.

    One nagging doubt however,wouldn’t put it past them to change the wording to the ref Q and everybodies voted no by misdirection.

  345. Nana Smith says:

    My husband has just sent me an email

    Since yesterday 6 more people at his workplace are now YES.

  346. goldenayr says:


    She was introduced as the “leading authority on the union” without a hint of embarrassment.

  347. J Galt says:

    However the satisfaction is knowing that without a doubt Brown knows he’s a Failure (just look at his face!) and was roundly shafted by the Blair faction, and this rubbish from a man once thought to have “a brain the size of a planet”!

  348. Brian Fleming says:

    Ahem. Could it possibly be that Gordon Brown is in fact so stupid that he actually believes this excrement? It could explain how he made such a horse’s arse of the UK economy.

  349. Johnny says:

    goldenayr @ 10:07

    If they changed the wording, it would be spotted and the whole thing would be null and void. Or it ought to be!

  350. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    O/T – Restrictions on Government activity in the 28 days before the Independence Ref takes effect today.

    I wonder who will break the rules first?

  351. goldenayr says:


    Did you not listen to the porkies MacAvity just came away with?

    Don’t underestimate the depths they will plumb.

  352. X_Sticks says:

    Nana Smith says:

    “Since yesterday 6 more people at his workplace are now YES”

    Is the tsunami for Yes I predicted starting? It looks awfy like it.

    No complacency out there now, we work to the wire folks.

    PS Still looking for volunteers for Referendum Agents for Aberdeenshire – see O/T

  353. Johnny says:

    goldenayr @ 10:32

    Oh, I agree that they will plumb the depths. The thing is, if we notice (and we would) are we going to stand for it?

  354. heedtracker says:

    So here in Aberdeen, with tens of thousands of engineers moving here, your house is earning much much more than you, a lot more if your an a average earner and your finances run a lot like the UK anyway. Winners and losers but are house price spikes healthy or is it just one more teamGB right place right time lotto.
    What if you’re a minimum wage earner? Again in Aberdeen there has been virtually no social housing built for 40 years, former council houses cost 2 grand a month to rent, plus 2 months deposit, and contract fees, with 2 references, but developers like Stewart Milne are throwing up acres of single skin, cramp, garbage housing, miles from anywhere, hard to get to, very expensive but all very tasty for Stewart Stewart Milne, worth over £100 million, is also a very very No. There’s a pattern here.

  355. goldenayr says:


    The tsunami is definitely here.

  356. Wildgypsyrover says:

    *gordon brown is a liar*

    The sky is blue…

    waters wet…

    dog poop smells…

  357. Chitterinlicht says:


    Re newsnight – was it the self titled ‘History woman”?

    2nd pic bottom

  358. Johnny says:

    heedtracker @ 10:39

    It dismays me that too many No’s and undecideds seem to think the rich bods (do they see them as their betters still?) have everyone’s interests at heart, rather than what benefits their own (already fat) wallets.

  359. goldenayr says:


    Personally speaking,never have.

    We are,however,up against the Ministry of Propaganda.

    No it wasn’t dissolved in the latter half of the last century.It was incorporated into the SiS and shared between the various depts.

  360. Chitterinlicht says:

    this may be better link

    kind of given up on BBC so cannot bring myself to check

  361. galamcennalath says:

    If you want …
    – Scotland’s wealth to be spend here
    – to keep the NHS public
    – a voice in the world
    – to scrap WMD
    – Scotland always governed by Scots
    – great equality
    – no illegal wars
    – free education
    – greater focus on renewables
    – to be respected, not despised
    …. vote YES

    If you don’t care about any of the above, you are a very sad self centred individual! Hell mend you!

  362. Chitterinlicht says:

    and the thing about history is that it teaches us that when the ‘elite’ establishment distance them so far from the rest of society the hoi polloi will rise up and overthrow them.

    ‘Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now.’

    Arnold J. Toynbee

    Where are Westminster looking to position themselves?

  363. Hewitt83 says:


    I have a busy month ahead (2x weddings, a holiday and Indy related activity of my own) but what you do you need these referendum agents to do?

  364. goldenayr says:


    Whit a palaver just to see a photie…an it wisnae even her.

    The one on Newsnight was an Ox/Cam History revisionist for Westminster.

  365. Chitterinlicht says:


  366. James S says:

    Interesting that the Italians from Barga ‘the most Scottish town in Italy’ have been involved in Glasgow since the 1850’s.

    Tamzin Outhwaite’s Italian Great Grandfather made a life in Glasgow

    Very interesting that Italians account for 2% of the population – that’s a lot of ice cream…

  367. heedtracker says:

    @ Johnny, I thinks it’s control of the media that normalises extreme wealth based on deeply corrupt governments like Crash and Cameron at Westminster. What on earth is Sir Ian Milne going to spend inside one thousand five hundred million quid on?

    Why has no Aberdeen city council built council or social housing since the 60’s and the quality of the building back them shames the over priced ugly crap Vote NO Stewart Milne gets away with. We’ve been PFI’d to buggery up here too, with giant 30 year bills for schools and hospitals that won’t be paid up until the mid 2050’s. Is it a coincidence that Labour Council convener Wullie Young is a property rental millionaire, in the oil capital of Europe that builds no social housing. No wonder people get the fcuk out of here.

    But we’re British and I don’t like Alixsamin so I’ll be voting no. Why is that so tragically funny to hear.

  368. Johnney come lately says:

    An announcement saying Salmond intends to stand down could have both a negative and positive effect. It would certainly disarm the the “Sammenhaters” and possibly remove the obstacle to them voting yes. After all, the MSM have made the whole referendum campaign about Salmond.
    On the other hand the MSM would spin it to buggery and paint it as an admission of expected defeat. Personally, I don’t think for a second that he will step down and neither would I want him to.
    Possibly he could signal his intention to stand down after the referendum or before the next Scottish election, but what would that achieve. Mischief making methinks.

  369. Fergus Green says:

    Petition on 38 degrees demanding fair coverage of the referendum by the BBC – please sign:

  370. bjsalba says:

    Off Topic but On Topic in a way since it has a link to this article.
    If you meet a voter who is worried about currency, I would recommend
    a brief clear entertaining guide to the options.

    Myself, having worked for a US bank for 25 years, I would recommend Option B to start with and review our decision from time to time.

  371. Les Wilson says:

    Nana Smith says:

    Nana, that is quite good on that site, I have signed their petition to the EC anyway.

  372. Robert Peffers says:

    @charlie says: 22 August, 2014 at 1:06 am:

    “Gordon Brown warns about Indepence economy. Fuckin quality cheek to proclaim about that…Spread that thru Fife if nowhere else, where’s an MP that can look forward to a healthly Lordship unless we vote Yes. Yeah it’s Gordon Brown.”

    Not to forget our new Fife MSP Alex Rowley. Another in a long line of Labour Party career politicos with an already ignominiously chequered career. His first actions upon gaining the leadership of Fife Council, (the first time round), was to close council Old Folks Homes and take away the few bob paid to those with learning difficulties for using the drop-in centres and actually doing great work for that few bob.

    His next was to splash out thousands on a pink leather suite for his own, “Fife House”, office. Next up he gets pushed as the next, “The Great White Hope”, by the London Labour In Scotland Party and promoted to a very well paid job in the Labour Party. Only to be unable to keep his trousers on and thus causing a scandal and then he sank back into obscurity. Only to emerge again into the light to become a Fife Councillor again. Now he has been chosen by London Labour in Scotland as an MSP candidate and now been elected by gullible Fife Labour supporters as out MSP.

    Are there no depths that London Labour in Fife will not plumb in order to push these despicable people upon a gullible London Labour in Scotland supporting electorate? This guy should have been left way down in the stinking sewers where he put himself. Leopards, and Labourites, never change their spots. (Am I frightened he may sue? No for every word is true and in the public domain).

  373. Les Wilson says:

    What I really like about this site is how people put in the effort to find things out and report them to all.
    Brilliant really.

  374. ailsa craig says:

    Do not drop your guards. Remember power is a drug and people with power will stop at nothing, however vile, to keep their power. Power will only be taken from their cold stiff fingers. Sad fact of life.
    Keep going in any way you can, in spite of the obstacles os bias and mis-information. Lying, in other words!

  375. dennis mclaughlin says:

    I bloody detest this WordPress 3.9
    you follow a link and on these long threads you are bright back to the original posting…….Ggrrrrrrr!.
    why cannot we have a ‘reply’ function to these threads….it’s so archaic.
    sorry,rant over :).

  376. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 22 August, 2014 at 1:08 am:

    “As I said, no offense was intended, so crossed wires perhaps?”

    And as I pointed out already, Cameron, I was not offended. My point being that it is a sweeping generalisation that can lead to very wrong conclusions. A simple reading through these comments should show you enough very hard working, defecated and slightly, (cough), past their teenage angst years, ladies to make the point that neither gender nor age are synonymous with thick headed ignorance.

    Do not apologise to me – apologise to them.

  377. chic mcgregor says:

    Salmond should definitely NOT stand down. However, an announcement that, unlike Mrs Thatcher, he has absolutely no Iintention of going on and on past normal retirement age would highlight the fact that this would mean he would be handing over the premiership to someone else during the first term of government in an independent Scotland. Assuming. of course, a Yes vote and subsequent SNP victory.

  378. seanair says:

    Robert Peffers @ 11.27 am
    Alex Rowley? Ah kent his faither! Nice wee man, Labour Cooncillor for Lumphinnans? Very Old Labour in a mining area.
    I think he’s still alive, but don’t know how he can still be vewwy pwoud of his son or the Labour Party.

  379. Adam says:

    @Johnney come lately

    I’ve thought for a while that Alec might step down if it’s yes (though I’m sure he’d take an active role in the negotiations). This is pure conjecture on my part. His life’s work would be complete and Sturgeon looks like she has been groomed to take over in the short term.

    However, if it’s no I would expect him to stay on as we’d need him more than ever.

    I have a feeling the Yes campaign may have a couple of cards they can play over the next month but given Salmond’ popularity I’m not sure that a pre-announcement would necessarily be a boost for Yes (even though it would disarm a lot of the Alicsammonhaters).

  380. bookie from hell says:

    YES 1 million signatures

    what percentage is that in electoral terms.

    what target is needed for a YES win?


  381. muttley79 says:

    I agree Chic. The MSM/No campaign would just spin it as Salmond walking away from his responsibilities.

  382. T222Deracha says:

    Sorry to go O/T but Douglas Flint of HSBC is really dissing an independent Scotland on the BBC.

    Another financial wizard giving advice!

  383. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers

    You may have missed this as I posted it last night, with the wrong link. You may also be forgetting the context of the ongoing conversation I had joined. I’ve included the correct link this time.

    Once again, my comment was related to evolved human psychology and had nothing to do with intelligence, or lack of.

    Social networking has broad appeal and although its use is lower amongst the older population, its use is not exclusively limited to younger age groups. In 2012, 62% of adults aged 35 to 44, and 40% of adults aged 45 to 54 used social networks to communicate online.

    Over eight in ten (83%) of adults now go online using any type of device in any location. Nearly all 16-24s and 25-34s are now online (98%), and there has been a nine percentage point increase in those aged 65+ ever going online (42% vs. 33% in 2012).—households-and-individuals/social-networking–the-uk-as-a-leader-in-europe/sty-social-networking-2012.html

  384. Patrician says:

    @x-sticks, goldenayre this isn’t a tsunami, as good an analogy as it is. For me this is the lion being roused from it slumber and starting to take notice of what is going on. Just listen to the roar when it is fully awake.

  385. FrenchFroncck says:

    Hi, sorry that this is not on topic of Gordon Brown’s speech but I wasn’t sure where to post this.

    As a car enthusiast I often frequent the site Amongst the forums there is a sub-forum for Scottish motorists (151k posts – so a large audience )and in there, there is a heated debate about independance,

    with the thread title “Who is bogging off after the Yes vote”.

    Some of the allegations are pretty shocking in my view and I often come on here to get my facts right before posting 🙂

    I’ve tried my best to debate but fear I’m losing the battle, the no supporters far outweigh the yes ones. I was hoping some more people with more answers than myself could sign up and join the debate, hopefully convince some of the doubters 🙂

  386. packhorse pete says:

    @bookie from hell
    Great to have the magic million. However, not all of them will be registered voters in Scotland, I don’t think. Still, great symbolic figure.

  387. Robert Peffers says:

    @liz g says: 22 August, 2014 at 2:18 am:

    “Robert and Cameron you are both talking at cross purposes. My mum and her pals are exactly what Cameron is talking about so I think he made a fair point.”

    Sigh! Liz, You too are way off the point being made. It is NOT to do with modern technology but the sweeping generalisation that , “Old Ladies”, are, as a group, intransigent naysayers. Read the comments on WoS and you will see there are those here from every age group, gender and socio-economic grouping working their great big hearts out for Scotland’s independence.

    By the same token there are people from all those groupings working their hearts out for the Westminster establishments furtherance.

    Then there are people from the same groupings who are as yet undecided and the point is it is very wrong to make a sweeping generalisation about ANY such group. I’ll put that another way for you, “Never judge a book by it’s cover”..

    There are many intransigent Naysayers, undecided and disconnected from politics and, (dare I say it YESSERS,) out there from ALL the groups of people that it is a mistake to generalise any of them. .

  388. Mary Bruce says:

    Excellent news on the declaration.

    Just been on the phone to my mum and did a mini straw poll of her, my niece, nephew-in-law and her window cleaner (all in her kitchen right now). All are voting yes and none have signed the declaration. The million is the tip of the iceberg.

  389. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Never judge a book by it’s cover”

    Wasn’t I saying that a wee while ago?

  390. Jim Marshall says:

    James s 11.05

    “Interesting that the Italians from Barga ‘the most Scottish town in Italy’ have been involved in Glasgow since the 1850?s.”

    I arrived home from canvassing to catch a few moments of this programme. 59min in a “historian” by name of Ivan Day sitting in an Italian cafe in Glasgow started prattling on about all the Italians who came to ENGLAND. He may be a historian but he is no geographer.

    Just as well I had a good night canvassing or the tv might have been heaved out the door.

  391. Cameronian says:

    Brown is a disgrace and an example of all that is wrong with Westminster politics.

  392. HandandShrimp says:

    I am glad they hit the 1 million target for the declaration. Oh I am sure the Nay Sayers will say that 300,000 of the signatures are all by AlicSammin but if we had failed to hit the target they would have been cock a hoop. With the most active campaigning month to go the target should be comfortably exceeded.

    For what it is worth I signed early on and whenever I went to a Yes thing where the declaration was being collected I was always asked if I had signed and the moment I said Yes they pulled the form away. So I saw no skulduggery on the part of the signature collectors.

  393. Robert Peffers says:

    @Grendel says: 22 August, 2014 at 6:12 am:

    “Don’t forget, some haven’t.

    Err! Greedel, That’s the point being made by me

    Which is – do not make sweeping generalisations about any group of people.

  394. Hewitt83 says:

    @bookie from hell

    One million is about 25% of the voting electorate.

    Say it’s around a 70-75% turnout, the winning side will be the one with around a million and half votes.

    If we can get an additional 500,000 to vote Yes on top of those who signed the declaration – we win 🙂


    Sounds simple eh!

  395. Jim Marshall says:

    Re my post 12.26

    Should read 39 min in.

  396. Robert Louis says:

    I come on the site only to find several comments about whether Salmond will resign etc… and will it help the YES campaign.

    Seriously, get a grip folks. Alex Salmond has worked his entire life for this moment, and is not about to walk away. He has been given abuse by the London run mainstream media since he first went to Parliament, it is water off a duck’s back. He’s heard it all before.

    As regards the narrative, that people will vote NO because of Salmond, it is hogwash, perpetrated by unionists and their lying propagandists in the media AND online. Consider, he has twice been elected First Minister, second time around with a greater majority, unlike David Cameron’s who haven’t won at Westminster since 1992.

    This is a referendum on the restoration of Scottish independence and democracy. It isn’t a vote to elect Mr.Salmond.

    Lots of new names posting such comments here – probably churnalists, too feart to ask Salmond himself, so trying to dig up some insider info.

    So, any way, can we we stop this nonsense about the First Minister resigning, as it really is PISH.

  397. Robert Louis says:

    Meanwhile, Derek Bateman is still on fine form.

    “And on top of all that I’ve just heard from Ian Wood that there’s only 35 years of oil left…35 years! What are we going to do? And according to John Birt we won’t be able to watch Strictly while the oil dwindles…excuse me while I reach for the Kleenex”


  398. Jim Duthie says:

    Over on Radio Scotland Stewart Hosie is “monstering” Jenny Marra and basically tearing her a new rectal passage. Audience openly mocking her. To be fair, they are Dundonians and don’t take shite from anyone – especially SLAB liars.

  399. YESGUY says:

    The daily record spewing out threats that a YES vote will damage our NHS.

    Time we all got the message out. Barnett formula cut NHS budget cut simple.

    How can the Record allow G.Brown to spread his hyped up pish is a disgrace . This is what we should concentrate on.

    We have them by the short and curly’s over the NHS .

    I’ll never buy a paper again. Distorted and twisted everything about this ref and they will suffer accordingly.

    Great news with the signatures and yesterday the tweets where brilliant.

    Hope to see some of you at the Leith YEStival tmoz .

    Might get a nice day too

  400. Free at 63! says:

    Saw Bateman in Clydebank Town Hall last night with Murray Pittock, Julie Webster and Kenny MacAskill.

    He was in great form then too. Excellent debating from all parties.

    We MUST win this!

  401. Edward says:

    Jim Marshall
    I watched that last night, was a bit surprised the BBC imported a historian, what about the local Italian Scots?

    But I was irritated that he said the Italians coming to England, that is in context of Glasgow. Then repeated the ignorant remark (wife had to tie me down at that point 😉 )

    Ivan Day, obviously knows his stuff regarding food in history, but couldn’t the BBC have found someone in Glasgow or even Edinburgh that was well versed in the history of the Italian diaspora ?

    For foodies here is Ivan Day’s website

  402. YESGUY says:

    Robert Louis

    Sayed the same yesterday buddy. He might retire after the vote and push wee Nichola into te frame for Prime minister of iScotland.

    What a loss that would be if we lost the man who gave us the opportunity to govern ourselves.

    He’s up there with Wallace and the Bruce in my eyes and i am no SNP supporter.

    Still we can put a wee statue up at our parliment building for him later. History will remember Alex Salmond.

  403. Whatever happens on Sept 18th,SLAB scabs like Ian Davidson,Krash Gordon,Flipper,Curran etc will be fighting a Westminster General Election only 8 x months AFTER LYING through their teeth to the electorate of Scotland.

    Are we really going to allow them to undermine our future between MAY 2015 all the way to May 2020.?

    When SLAB LIED their way into their Illegal War in Iraq we should not be surprised that they will stalk any horse, stalk any lie to ensure their heads are in the trough.

    “Yesterday`s Failures” like Krash and Flipper have nowhere to run – nowhere to hide.


  404. Robert Peffers says:

    @john king says: 22 August, 2014 at 8:11 am:
    “Scotlands equivalent of the American declaration of independence”? “Except that it pre dated it by 456 years and was the template for the America declaration of Independence!”.

    Not to mention that in those days the Pope was the leading authority of all Christendom. The United Nations of the day. If the Pope said you were an independent country then you were an independent country. It did more, though. It established the Scottish Legal system as way before its time. It declared that the people of Scotland, not the monarchy, were sovereign. That changed the law of that time, “The Divine Right of Kings”, in Scotland but which still applies in the, (three country), Kingdom of England.

  405. Albert Herring says:

    “However, not all of them will be registered voters in Scotland, I don’t think.”

    Blair Jenkins says they’ve all been checked and double-checked against the electoral register.

  406. Brian Fleming says:


    Odd how “business leaders with Scottish operations” becomes “Scottish business leaders” in the Torygraph headline.

  407. Robert Louis says:


    He has no intention of standing down, as he has been elected to serve as First Minister until 2016. Neither he nor I know the result of the 2016 election.

    Anything else is pure conjecture, that plays into the unionists narrative.

  408. Robert Louis says:

    Albert Herring,

    Yes, I’m sure the YES campaign have been uber careful, in the full knowledge of questions that might be asked.

    It is a magnificent achievement.

    YES, is on the up.

  409. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “As a car enthusiast I often frequent the site”

    Ah yes. Occasionally it pops up in the Wings referrer logs, so I know there’s been a barrage of fuckwitted right-wing abuse aimed our way… 😀

  410. @Robert Peffers
    I know this is a political forum not a theological forum but the comments on this post have nearly run dry so I would like to be a bit pedantic about your assertion that” the Pope was the leading authority of all Christendom”
    At the time of the D of A the eastern Roman empire under the Byzantines, although christian followed the Eastern Orthodox Church which did not see the Catholic Pope as there leading authority.
    There were also other Christian sects like Arianism and the Cathars that did not see the Pope as there head.

  411. Grouse Beater says:

    Hewit: If we can get an additional 500,000 to vote Yes on top of those who signed the declaration – we win

    We need convince only half a person each!

    Eazy-peazy. Bags I the top half.

  412. Robert Peffers says:

    @Scot Finlayson says: 22 August, 2014 at 1:27 pm:
    “” the Pope was the leading authority of all Christendom”
    At the time of the D of A the eastern Roman empire under the Byzantines, although christian followed the Eastern Orthodox Church which did not see the Catholic Pope as there leading authority”.

    Indeed, Scot, but my post was in relation to European countries and their royal territorial infighting. The mainly Balkan Peninsula and Asia Minor were not really relevant in that context but you are technically correct.

  413. Papadox says:

    Big Gordy on Scottish news 12:30

    The man was on today spouting lies as usual, no mistake, no excuses he knows exactly what he is doing and what he is saying. There is absolutely no honest case for the union.

    This scare mongering and lies will come back to bite them. They have destroyed any credibility they ever had, is that what Westminster HMG hand out the treasure and ermine for? Looks like it to me. Westminster is a corrupt nasty system long past it’s sell by date.

  414. bald eagle says:

    this is how scared they are


  415. JWil says:

    The last thing we want to be doing is getting a NO vote then trying to fight a rear guard action before the 2015 general election to point out the lies we have been told by the Unionists. It’s a one off YES vote we need more than anything. That nullifies them in an instant. No more sh*t!

  416. gerry parker says:

    pistonheads dot com and not an Alfa Romeo in sight!

    I don’t believe it…

  417. JWil says:

    “There were also other Christian sects like Arianism and the Cathars that did not see the Pope as there head.”

    Henry VIII had similar issues.

  418. JWil says:

    “Chitterinlicht says:

    22 August, 2014 at 10:40 am


    Re newsnight – was it the self titled ‘History woman”?”

    Yes, that could very well be her. Interesting article. She was definitely of the NO persuasion last night. However, in the FT article she says that she had joined Better Together, but she wasn’t that impressed by them.

  419. K1 says:

    “So, any way, can we we stop this nonsense about the First Minister resigning, as it really is PISH.”

    I’m with you on that Robert.

    On the subject of the million signatures, does anyone seriously think our side would ‘cheat’ and have signatures that are not from Scotland on that declaration?

    As far as I’m concerned this is a big insurance policy for us, as Yes now has a database with over a million of us with our post codes verifiable in case of any vote rigging.

    I always thought that was the true intention of the declaration….how can they claim it’s a handful of ‘nationlists’ with that kinda of evidence? It can and will if necessary provide any evidence if required should there be ‘ahem’ (copyright LA), disappearing votes that skew the true result.

    I say this, because we are winning…by an astounding margin that’s what all the fear and panic is about…they know it, we know it, they know we know it, we know they know we know it…and they know we know that they know we know they know it.


  420. TJenny says:

    K1 – are you one of the Kursal Flyers? 🙂

    RE the 1 million Yes signatures. I know of at least 5 and possibly 7 who are Yes voters but have not signed the declaration. Yet.

  421. Marcia says:


    As someone who has had the hard job of deciphering the handwriting on a lot of these cards all had to be checked against the electoral register. Those not on the register was sent or given a registration form to fill in and return to the ERO.

  422. Andy-B says:

    This vile liar of a man, is in Glasgow today spreading his lies and deceit. The anti-Scottish, and Canary Wharf owned Daily Record for the umpteenth time has given him a free hand to spew his false rhetoric, this compulsive liar has brought shame on Scotland.

  423. David Stevenson says:

    Brown still trying to terrorise cancer patients and transplant patients with lies and distortion. As well as parading his innumeracy. He is a disgrace, but surely anyone with a couple of brain cells can work out that Scotland has more than £3B of (understated) oil revenues to work with….

  424. pussy nancy says:

    Oh dear!

    Not surprised in the least though. He’s my MP (for my sins) I have been saying for years that this man should be behind bars for misappropriation of public funds!

    As another poster mentioned below, he has no regard whatsoever for his constituents. It became obvious to me when he made the 10P tax gaff that it would affect the lowest paid workers in his own constituency. Those same people who had kept is feet under the Parliamentary table for 30 years! Why? I ask myself, do they keep voting him back in!

    Gordon doesn’t understand the meaning of a fair fight. Everything he has achieved has been through double dealing, slander, backstabbing and downright lies!

    He’s only fit for piddling around in his comfort zone. Old People’s Homes and Technical Colleges, preaching to 16year olds.

  425. west_lothian_questioner says:

    Crash is at it again with added extra depth to the lie. Apparently the oil revenues have shrunk overnight from 3billion to 2.9billion (from bbc scotland live page timestamped at 14:37.)

  426. Joe says:

    Regardless of which way you’re voting – how DARE he call himself an ex-politician without resigning his seat.

    He’s either in or out of politics.

    What a git.

  427. TYRAN says:

    Brown back on tea time news again. Why do they come running to show what this man has to say every single time?!

  428. Colin Church says:

    FFS. TV remote nearly through TV. STV news gives free platform for him to repeat this shite. No challenge, no questions, just the Ponsonby reveration. Absolutely beelin’.

  429. K1 says:

    Tjenny like this 😉

    And yes many yessers haven’t even signed it as yet…and many more won’t or can’t…

    Marcia, my point exactly!

  430. Sandra Wilson says:

    Gordon Brown has no shame. If he did he would be unable to show his face for his part in the banking crisis. Son of the manse indeed.

  431. pussy nancy says:

    Bugsbunny@7.27on 21st

    I was wondering how long it would take for this to be touched upon.
    One wonders if his name is on a certain Government list?

  432. Michael Ross says:

    i wonder if anyone can help me locate a think Sunday Times a few years ago wher it stated that Brown raved and lost his temper when he rampaged and raved that he had to lie to save Tony Blair. Surely not the fact that a son of the manse

  433. Jo Hoss says:

    Gordon Brown is a pile of pure 8HITE!!

  434. Justin James Roche says:

    Mr Brown, like most politicians, is obviously in politics for self gain, fame and influence.
    The extent of how much this man in particular has lied to save him self and rich buddies is only known by few, those who have capitalised from his dishonesty and those, like myself, who’s lives have been turned upside down by his dishonesty, and all because i gave him voluntary unpaid help that help dig him out of the crap during the economic crisis.

    After the crisis, Brown took full credit for the advise I had given him and then, instead of thanking me, he throw me to the wolves of his buddies and enemies in journalism, politics and the entertainment industry. It is a miracle that I am still alive. Several of my family are now dead.

    This is the thanks that people who save the world and those who are given the privileged role to lead our civilisation get.

    They are ruined, ridiculed, slandered, victimised and some are even murdered, not because they have done anything wrong, but because their help saved the people in power, who choose not to credit their saviours but to take full credit for their help and then lie.

    Gordon Brown is no doubt a shameful liar without any moral integrity.
    I would love to see a day where all politicians have to be completely honest by law.
    Perhaps even come from an educated class of priests who have denounced material wealth in order to serve the people and humanity, while people like Gordon Brown have to spend their time in prison for their crimes against dishonesty.

  435. Michael Ross says:

    There was an article published in The Sunday Times I think referring an allegation to Brown losing his temper after telling ” lies ” to protect the Bliar creature….I wish i had kept the cutting…
    Probably a bit about the Iraq war….

    I don’t suppose anyone can locate the cutting ..I’m having a lot of difficulty finding it..

    If only the Brown had a semblance of guts to give up the Chancellor to bind it with that excellent Robin Cook and Claire whatsoever name instead of sending his attack dogs to indicate he was not in favour of the iraq war …the gutless wonder!
    Brown has only been protecting a greasy pole to the dream of brown to attain the Prime Ministership..

    He was only miserable at the post when he got it….the miserable moaner

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