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Wings Over Scotland


Here comes the love

Posted on August 20, 2014 by

heavyprice

The Telegraph:

“If independence is rejected, large majorities of voters south of the Border support cutting Scottish public spending to the UK average and banning Scottish MPs from voting on English-only laws at Westminster.

By a […] large margin of 56 per cent to 12 per cent, the English said Scottish public spending should be cut to the UK average following a No vote.”

The Times:

“English voters want the government to take a hard line against Scotland even if its residents vote “no” to independence. Funding should be cut and Scottish MPs should no longer have a say over English matters, according to a survey.

The findings will unsettle parties in the pro-Union campaign, who have promised a good deal for Scotland if it remains in the UK.”

The Herald:

“Voters south of the Border want a cut to Scottish annual public spending of almost £1,400 per person if there is a No vote.”

The Scotsman:

“An English backlash against Scotland’s demands for greater political power is looming, whatever the outcome of the independence referendum.

Even after a No vote, people south of the Border say public spending in Scotland should be reduced to bring it into line with the UK average, which the SNP has warned could see £4 billion removed from the Scottish budget.

The English appear in no mood to be particularly accommodating however Scots choose to vote in their independence referendum,’ said researcher Professor Richard Wyn Jones, of Cardiff University.

There is strong English support for reducing levels of public spending in Scotland to the UK average – a development that would lead to savage cuts in public services north of the Border.'”

It seems safe to say that the lovebombing is over, readers.

The only thing we’re a bit confused about is the £4bn figure. The No campaign has been hammering away for several weeks now on that figure of £1400 “for every man, woman and child” in extra UK spending in Scotland. The population of Scotland is 5.3 million. Multiplied by £1400 that’s £7.42bn, not £4bn.

That’s the £7bn figure we told you about last November, which would be slashed from the Scottish budget were the Barnett Formula (the source of the “higher spending”) to be ended and Scotland made to raise its own tax revenue under new devolved powers proposed by all three Unionist parties – but NOT given control of its oil revenues.

It would be impossible to recoup that vast figure from tax rises, because people would simply flood out of Scotland in their millions. The only way to get it back would be, as noted by Professor Jones, cuts to the Scottish budget of an absolutely colossal magnitude dwarfing anything previously seen under austerity.

Scottish voters are about to be faced with a stark choice. They can choose to take responsibility for their own affairs and manage the future with a still-significant oil resource behind them, or they can choose to run away from that responsibility and go crawling meekly to a Westminster which will be under enormous pressure from voters to punish them viciously, and can do so in the name of “more devolution”.

We told you nine months ago. Perhaps now the mainstream press has finally caught up with the story, more Scots will face up to the reality of the decision before them.

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  1. 20 08 14 01:10

    Here comes the love | Scottish Independence News

  2. 31 08 14 04:44

    48 Lies | A Wilderness of Peace

269 to “Here comes the love”

  1. goldenayr says:

    And here was me thinking you were tucked up in beddybaws.

    Get in there.

  2. goldenayr says:

    Sorry posred this on another thread,worth reposting.

    And while her constituents die at an early age.It’s nice to see “Stairheid” has her priorities right.

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/288964-post-independence-break-up-of-bbc-would-be-devastating-says-curran/

    “Stuff the inequality,whaurs ma Eastenders”.

  3. Patrician says:

    Be careful here people, this will be used by the MSM trying to stir up anti-English sentiment.

  4. lorna cruickshank says:

    After 300 yrs of Westminster rule di we really expect anything else,

  5. Red Squirrel says:

    So basically vote No to receive even less of Scotland’s tax take – let’s all enjoy those cuts to public services, extension of NHS privatisation, reduction in social protection and be jolly grateful for it…

  6. Hamish Humphy says:

    I think this may focus a lot of undecided minds on how they will vote. Its clearer than ever that there will be no status quo…we will definitely be shafted. Westminster will be under huge pressure from middle England to drastically cut our budget. Only a YES vote can save us.

  7. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Oh Good that means Boris will be able to fund his grandiose plans £1.3 Tri for London with our Oil revenues.

    http://www.cityam.com/1406740920/how-13-trillion-needs-be-spent-infrastructure-by-2050-stay-competitive

    Better Together – my arse.

  8. Sandy says:

    So if undecided voters swallow the lie that we are all better together…

    England will make sure we never will be better together again !

    Vote winner, I am converted.

  9. Tackety Beets says:

    Another 80’s Thrashing ,Thatcher style ! Under a different guise ! We all know Vote No & Be severely Punished ! Or Vote Yes ! Yeesssss ! All together Now , ” Cheerio Cheerio Cheerio ! “

  10. AndyC says:

    Yippee!…more threats…keep ’em coming!
    This should generate even more YES votes.
    Will they never learn?
    I’m with Patrician…what’s their reason for this and what’s their next move?

  11. Jamie says:

    I had a feeling that punishment would swiftly follow a no vote (under the euphemism of “more devolution”), but I had no idea that the media would come out and say it like this. If people haven’t been convinced by all the positive arguments to vote yes, then this ought to do it if nothing else will! The only concern I have, as Patrician says, is that the unionists will try to use this to whip up (or invent) anti-English sentiments.

  12. Democracy Reborn says:

    F*** me! Are they actually trying to goad the remaining undecideds into voting Yes?

    I’ve heard of abusive partner syndrome (‘please stay, don’t go, I love you really, I’ll change, you deserve more’). But I’ve never heard of ‘if you stay, I’m gonna shaft you’!

  13. Col says:

    Will London`s spending be brought down to the UK average also then? Less than a month to go, SURELY enough of us can see what a disaster voting NO will be?
    The gloves need to come off asap. This was never a debate, lets not kid ourselves on. We are fighting for our future here!
    We may end up looking back at the Thatcher years and think it wasn`t as bad as as this. This could end up one VERY messy divorce, only a YES vote will spare much of the pain that could be coming our way.
    A relatively quick and painless “separation” is what has to happen. Our independence from the monsters that currently hold so much power over our day to day lives lays on the other side. Lets do this!

  14. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    On a serious note, this has been a major concern of mine for a long time.

    The continuous stream of outrageous lies, half truths and misinformation by the MSM to rubbish Scotland and its people across the whole of the UK and beyond has been very destructive.

    At least in Scotland, we have our alternative internet based media to counter this. England does not – and this has poisoned the debate down South. Our respect in the UK will not recover and I fear we are going to reap the whirlwind that has been sown by BT if the vote is NO.

    The Better Together myth has finally been blown apart.

    It is pretty clear what we have to do – Vote YES on 18th September.

  15. AndyC says:

    The Establishment absolutely hate us.
    They’ve totally underestimated the power of social networking.
    We’ve totally exposed them and the media for what they are.
    The rest of the UK and in particular the counties of Wales and N.Ireland are showing signs of restlessness.
    Their wrath will be swift and excruciatingly painful.
    They will show no mercy!
    I have said this all along…but we will win this!

  16. Suzanne K says:

    The campaign by the unionists has had this outcome in mind from the beginning. Not surprising at all.
    O/T penultimate paragraph, ‘that responsibility’ currently reads ‘tat’. I’ll forgive you as it’s late! 😉

  17. Suzanne K says:

    My post just disappeared?
    I’d only pointed out the spelling error in the penultimate paragraph.
    ‘Tat responsibility’

  18. Suzanne K says:

    Argh! Now it’s back!
    I give up. Time for bed methinks.

  19. Stevie boy says:

    All this will only benefit the Yes side if the average person in the street knows about it but I’m still worried that with our extremely biased media that the average person just isn’t getting this information.
    .. And it is worrying as this obviously isn’t a democratic debate or level playing field!!!

  20. Stevie boy says:

    If there is a No vote.. god help us all!

    Save Scotland.. vote Yes!!

  21. Capella says:

    The umpteenth “game changer” from BT. Time to get out of this sham union whatever the cost, because staying in has too high a price.

  22. Col says:

    Stevie boy, what worries me is the jockholm syndrome that exists in this country. The media are literally trying to brainwash us with the way they control information. Just imagine for one seconds what this country could achieve in a few years when we have shaken off the doubt that is in ourselves and has been deliberately manufactured by the British establishment. Even our English pals will wake up when they see what we can and have achieved in a few years by dumping Westminster and those that run it for their own greedy ends.

  23. G. Campbell says:

    The Press Association report on the English poll is extraordinarily biased. It’s currently on the STV News, Courier and Evening Express sites.

    More than half of voters in England oppose Scotland using pound
    https://archive.today/dHvJH

    Not one mention of budget cuts or English votes for English laws and no response from the Yes side.

  24. G. Campbell says:

    Some more detail from The Independent.

    If Scotland votes Yes…

    “People should be able to travel between England and Scotland without passport checks”: 69% agree, 13% disagree

    If Scotland votes No…

    “The Scottish parliament should be given the power to decide its own policies on welfare benefits”: 40% agree, 26% disagree

    https://archive.today/4OirD

    I’m sure Jackie Baillie will welcome these views.

  25. geeo says:

    Got to be a Yes vote and screw your uk debt, no matter how much they beg.

  26. mike says:

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.” (M.K. Gandhi)

    There it is folks. We have reached the final phase.

    We HAVE to win.

  27. Stephen Armstrong says:

    In this final month, the British Media’s coverage against Scotland will be nothing short of hysterical. What we are witnessing is the beginning of the end of Britain. And what we will see and hear on our television screens, and in the newspapers, in the closing few weeks of this campaign, will be both ugly and shameful.

    In the last few days before the referendum, all of this anti-Scottish bile will rise to the surface. We must be made very aware that the British Establishment will do anything, and say anything, to hold on to their power, wealth, and privileges.

    But all of their lying and all of their treachery will come to nothing; because, after three hundred years, the Scottish people are beginning to regain their voice.

    A Scottish Revolution has begun, a revolution which will reverberate across the world.

    September cannot come quickly enough.

  28. geeo says:

    @patrician.

    Agree totally.

    I do not feel any antipathy towards the average decent english people, they have been misled for as long as Scots have.

    They are going to be furious when we go and they see us prosper as we go forward with modern fair policies they can only dream of.

    If Scots vote Yes, it is the decent ordinary english people who will suffer, if we stupidly vote No, then the english view of Scotland which has been hammered into them will be reinforced and us Scots will clearly suffer.

    Sadly, it now boils down to who the westminster politicians shaft, them, or us.

    That is the tragedy in all this, not the division of nations, rather the division of decent people.

    God i hate westminster.

  29. macart763m says:

    And there you have it – Better Together.

    Now how does Darling and Co. put it? Stronger united? HMGs five points – Keep the pound, cheaper bills, more money for and better protected public services oh yeah and lest we forget the best of both worlds. That’s the ad HMG have been running full page in my local newspaper for the past two or three weeks.

    So basically what the press is now saying is that both BT and HMG have been lying to the Scottish electorate quite brazenly. What we are actually promised is punishment for generations of contributions to the union. What we are going to receive, for any no vote, is savage cuts, less representation, less accountable democracy and regardless of result a hostile right wing administration who will look to curtail devolved powers (see oor Boris).

    We’re clear on that. Message received and understood.

    THIS is the end result of the narrative sold between Westminster and the media to the public. The whinging Jock, the subsidy junkie, the something for nothing society, the dark inference of nation wide anti English sentiment. It was all a hook to hang the hat of administrative, constitutional and economic punishment on. Demonise your opponent enough and the populace will wear anything you wish to visit upon them no matter how harsh. That’s more like the Westminster we know and love so well.

    Bear this in mind though, this is not the call of the English electorate. This is the manipulation of that electorate by the Westminster establishment. They’ve been fed a barrel load of lies about Scotland for decades on a daily basis. They are ill informed and ill served by their government and their media wing. Anti Scottish sentiment has been deliberately fanned by the big hoose on the Thames to hide and excuse their own appalling governance.

    We can put a stop to this in a few weeks time by the simple application of pencil to paper. Send that establishment a message and be a good friend and neighbour to the peoples of rUK. Show the UK by example how ill served they have been by Westminster and their representatives.

  30. macart763m says:

    Oh yeah forgot the more secure employment part of the five points. How could I forget HMGs record in keeping us all gainfully employed?

    Tut and Tsk. 🙂

  31. Tattie-bogle says:

    Vote naw tae get it fae behind without the reach around

  32. Nick Parker-Stevens says:

    My slight concern is that if we take the view that Westminster has deliberately manipulated and riled up the population down south to the point that they will back some form of punishment, well they’ve got to be pretty convinced they’ll win.

    See, as much as they might be corrupt, they aren’t as stupid as we like to believe they are. This is appearing in mainstream news outlets and they’re bound to know how it would be received up here and that it would (very likely) drive more people to a yes vote.

    Only a lunatic would swing a double-edged sword without making damn sure they weren’t going to cut themselves, right?

    It’s seriously making me reconsider all the paranoia about vote rigging or that at the very least that they know something we don’t.

  33. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

    I think if the First Minister produced those front pages at the next TV debate “GAME OVER” And I can begin to relax for fear of my nation’s dire future should a NO outcome be delivered. It is very stressful being so far away when Scotland is still your HOME and you still remain deeply, passionately in love with her. I emigrated in 1952 to Australia and nothing has changed in me in regards to my Scottish psyche and my concern and longing for my ancient homeland.

  34. Paul says:

    Apparently we all work for the BBC up here. The better together lot are going around frightening our elderly. I met a elderly lady yesterday in a Edinburgh housing estate who told me she was voting No because they told her that on the 19th if we have a Yes vote then we will be using the Euro and she didn’t want that. Is there No end to their lies.

  35. Marco McGinty says:

    I’ve always felt that a no vote would see Scotland severely punished, so I’m not in the least surprised by this.

    The no camp, based on fear, lies, deceit and greed, allied to selfishness, with an over-riding quest for individual honours and titles, a desire to rob a nation of its wealth, and now this vile attempt to cling on to its imperial past, by imposing a punishment on a “lesser” country because it dared to ignore its masters.

    A stark contrast to the Yes campaign, a campaign forged with a blend of positivity, selflessness and hope.

  36. dennis mclaughlin says:

    What a gawdawful mess.
    Westminster is pursuing a scorched – earth policy on both sides of the border, but the end game has not been fully visualised and what price the Union status quo?.
    YES must hold it’s nerve ‘cos the NAW side are doing the donkey work for us :).

  37. john king says:

    “Be careful here people, this will be used by the MSM trying to stir up anti-English sentiment.”

    I dont feel “anti-English” Patrician,
    but I do feel even more anti-Westminster who are the people wilfully perpetuating this pish that Scotland is pampered,
    when the English population finally get the REAL truth I hope they punish Westminster severely,
    but that will only come with independence,
    VOTE YES!

  38. dcomerf says:

    The 4bn figure is the cost to the Scottish budget if a “needs based” funding formula. It’s source is the Holtham report on funding for Wales (to whom Barnett gives less than “need” whereas Scotland gets more than “need”).

    Neither Barnett nor “needs based” formulae to take into account revenue raised in a territory when allocating funding to that territory. So Scotland’a funding is greatest if it keeps either Barnett (status quo) or raises its own revenues (indy) [there is some debate about which is greater!] But both definitely bigger than needs based which is greater than population share.

  39. Brian Mchugh says:

    This brings me to my conclusion. If there is a No vote, David Cameron can almost guarantee victory in 2015 GE …and most likely as an outright majority, finally getting rid of the LibDums.

    The Tory manifesto of a £4billion cut to Scotland and disempowering Scottish MP’s, will sweep him to power in middle England and he will not even care if the Tory’s lose the one seat they have up here. He also will not care if the SNP then get a new majority at the next Scottish Elections in a counter response up here, cos they will simply not agree to yet another referendum so soon after the last one.

    Labour will be an irrelevance throughout all this. The LibDums will be finished and UKIP will be a marginal party with no TV coverage.

  40. This confirms what an old school-mate of mine in the Sudetenland has long been telling me.

    Since the independence debate started, he has warned me: Westminster will screw us if we vote No.

    He also said the Andrew Neil programme last week, which concentrated on the effects of a Yes vote on the English, had scared a lot of his friends rigid.

    Good to see both the Herald and the Hootsman running with this poll, but, hardly surprisingly, I am disappointed that they could find no place – certainly on their online editions – for the RIC mass canvass result.

    I wonder why.

  41. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    Don’t you just love when love just blossoms.

    I think Scotland and England need to retake their wedding vows.

    Frk off

  42. Ken500 says:

    Just click bait for the disgraceful Press. There is no gutter deep enough for them. The £7Billion cut is already here. Scotland has been losing on average £7Billion a year since 2011. Even more to come.

    Undernourished, cold people get sick. Westminster is a disgrace.

    Vote YES, YES, YES.

  43. Snode1965 says:

    Help! My local R.c. Primary school headmistress is warning staff about a yes vote. She seems to think the SG will repeal the education act of 1918 and close catholic schools.seems far fetched to me,is there any info on this which I can pass on?

  44. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    Jeez, just started reading the comments, hard doing on a poxy smart phone because I have had bo fekin internet since last Monday the 12th.

    So listening to my iPad and guess what tune came up?

    Don’t give up.

    Kate Bush

  45. Ken500 says:

    Public sector spending. What about all Gov spending. The North/South divide. They think the UK electorate are 10 year olds. No one in the UK believes anything they read in the Press or hear in Westminster. The majority electorate in England are not fooled either.

    Westminster are stinking low lives. Rotten to the core, along with the Press. Lying their pockets while people are starved and murdered by Wedtminster MP’s. They fool no one.

  46. Ken500 says:

    £600/700Billion spend and they can’t even provide a proper NHS/Education system. Sell off Royal Mail making a profit, so Westminster and their associates can make £Millions/Billions. Osbourne’s best friend and best man made £Millions along with the rest. Illegally privatising the NHS, they were elected to protect. So Westminster and their associates can scoop up a profit. Putting up Uni fees, they were elected to protect.

    The White elephant train to nowhere, with no business case. Not enough passenger base, which will be subsidised forever with public money. To save 10minsto get to London. Who cares? Osbournes’s father in law is the Consultant misappropriating £Millions/Billions of public money. The illegal wars. Westminster is once more engaged in illegal action in the Middle East while alcoholic Dave sunbathes.

    They fool no one.

  47. Robert Louis says:

    I don’t blame ordinary folk in England, as they have been deceived by the self serving corrupt media, spouting lie after lie about Scotland and Scottish democracy. The blame lies entirely at the door of Westminster, and their spook insiders within the mainstream media, pumping out what can only be described as anti Scotland propaganda.

    Meanwhile, Gordon Brown, is spouting blatantly false scare stories about transplants yet again. This despite the FACT that he has been told repeatedly that Scottish independence will have no impact upon the transplant service.

    As a former failed prime minister, who knows the truth, to behave in this manipulative deceptive way, spreading fear, to save his own greedy career is beyond low. Shame on him. A disgrace.

    Source : http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9616-brown-repeats-false-indyref-claims-over-transplants-and-transfusions

    Seriously, what has become of the Labour party

  48. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Thanks fek the Pub is open at 6:30 here and I can get internet access on something bigger than a postcard.

    We must vote YES.

    If that is what they will do if we vote YES, think what they will do if we vote NO.

    If it is a NO, I couldn’t bear live in Scotland again, not and have to pay my taxes to Osbourn / Cameron / Boris / Farage.

    I will take up French nationality and probably could claim asylum. At least I will be able to afford my healthcare.

  49. I don’t know where to put this little titbit of info so it might be seen as highjacking this thread for my post. Sorry about that, plus sorry again if this has been promulgated previously on WOS before I found WOS.

    It’s about Lords and MPs with vested interests in Private Healthcare Companies providing services to the NHS

    Anyhoo here goes

    http://www.socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/over-60-mps-connected-to-companies.html

    http://www.socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.html

  50. Ken500 says:

    The Herald and the Times both run by tax evading foreign companies. The reason the UK is in decline.

  51. GrahamB says:

    So what happened to the Edinburgh agreement then!
    Anyway, always wondered why Cameron came up to sign it with AS, was Flipper too busy that week?

  52. Ken500 says:

    Herald and Times sales miniscule, and falling.

  53. Name (required) says:

    Get round the doors people, man the stalls, start the conversation with everyone, at the bus stop, in the shops, at work, in the pub, everywhere you can.

    get your car stickers on, get your windae stickers up, wear a badge (workplace rules permitting)

    answer queries with “‘YES’ I can look at that”, “‘YES’ mate”, “‘YES’ – whatever…”

    I know its hard (on a personal level) but great results take hard work.

    Above all if someone asks a question get them an answer.
    the WBB is part of it but its YOU that sells it , YOU are key to this. please don’t leave it to others.

    (I know many on here do all of the above and more, Its about US and WE cant afford to loose)

  54. boris says:

    Labour Party Complicit in NHS Privatisation

    The National Health Service in England is being dismantled in favour of private sector healthcare provision. £80 Billion is to be handed over to 40 commissioning bodies, providing massive profits for a few major private healthcare providers. Contracts are being drawn up, in secret, for implementation at the earliest opportunity, which unfortunately for the Health Service in England is now. David Cameron, (Prime Minister) is firmly set on continuing with the changes despite ever growing public dissent. There has been little argument from the Labour Party.

    The process, (now nearing the implementation stage) was first conceived by the Labour government of Tony Blair. The Commons Public Accounts Committee, (CPAC) reported that the Health Service in England spent £600?million on consultants, including McKinsey, in, (2005-06). A few of his ministers involved;

    1. Mark Britnell; Director-General for Commissioning and System Management for the National Health Service (NHS) in England (2007–2009) now a partner and Head of Healthcare, Europe & UK for advisory firm KPMG.

    2. Lord Warner, Labour Health Secretary, (2005-2006), now involved with the huge equity firm APAX, which also owns healthcare interests.

    3. Simon Stevens; Former Chief Health Adviser, (to Tony Blair) now the executive vice-president of United Healthcare. The company is well advanced in contractural agreements with NHS civil servants.

    4. Alan Milburn; Labour Health Secretary, (1999-2003), retained by Alliance Medical owners a number of healthcare providers.

    5. Cherie Blair; (Wife of Tony) is a founding partner of, “Mee Healthcare”. now recruiting financial backers gathering £100 Million.

    It is evident, in the future, (contrary to assurances by the Con/Dem government) that GP’s will not be the driving force of the Health Service in England. The 40 Commissioning Teams will run the show, awarding large contracts to approved Healthcare providers, namely, BUPA, AXA, KPMG, McKinsey and others.

    So there it is. Loadsa money for the already mega-rich, (including those listed above) asset stripping the National Health Service in England, (the wee Welshman must be turning in his grave). A, “No” vote will bring about the same fate for the Health Service in Scotland as is planned for England. Scotland will only be spared if we vote, “Yes” in the referendum.

  55. faolie says:

    This isn’t even vote No, get nothing. It’s vote No, get shafted. This is great. Another piece of information for the DKs when canvassing.

    And by the way guys, and I’m sure lots of you share this, the canvass returns are still showing a Yes majority. Last night in a street in Leith, 10 Yesses, 5 Noes and lots of DKs (who were all pointed to http://www.theweebluebook.com of course).

  56. davidb says:

    @ snode

    Maybe point out to her that the Orange Order are cheerleading no. Im not sure catholic education is top of their agenda.

  57. Ken500 says:

    HeraldScotlnd.com is published by the Herald and the Times media group. Newsquest.

    Newsquest group’s main interest is publishing literature for the private education sector – worldwide.

  58. heedtracker says:

    Its just an all out attack on Scottish democracy. Scottish press all out assault on democracy here now or they could have used “English say Scots will pay heavy price for DEMOCRACY”

    They’ve lost so now they’re getting even worse.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-28859522

  59. galamcennalath says:

    Wow. Looks like some truth from the MSM at last. And, just in time.

    For heavens sake, NO voters, they will destroy Scotland if NO win!

  60. AlBa says:

    I also think there’s so much good support material here, needs shouting about too – great for handing out, Windows or posting on Facebook profile page, etc.

    http://www.indyposterboy.info/index.asp

  61. Martin says:

    This is a bit like the ukip vote. I really can’t blame the English, they’ve had 2y of being told we’re subsidy junkies sooking vital monies out of the treasury by the media and politicians…are we surprised that the same media now finds disquiet? Hopefully it will push the yes vote though

  62. hetty says:

    This really is an attempt to stir up trouble. The concern might be that we would still be part of the so called union until March 2016? I mean, can they still cut our budget ( pocket money they give us, from our own money) hugely and attempt to destroy Scotland during transition? I do wonder what nasty scheme they have, well as far as they are capable of planning anything other than wars and attacking the poor.
    That lot, ie westminster, could well be intending to make destructive changes rather swiftly, even if it is a YES. If it is a no, god help us and that coming from a non religious slightly South of the border immigrant.

  63. heedtracker says:

    BBC Wales says scary stuff like

    Public spending per head in Scotland was £10,327 in 2012-13, compared to the UK average of £8,940.

    Professor Roger Scully of Cardiff University said the English were more keen to play “hard-ball” with Scotland.

    and

    On voting in the House of Commons if independence is rejected, 62% of English voters wanted to block Scottish MPs from voting on laws applying only to England, while in Wales 53% backed the principle.

    The survey found high levels of opposition to Scottish independence – from 61% of voters in Wales and 59% in England, with 19% per cent of each nation’s voters in favour.”

    So polls show majority England against Scotland running Scotland BUT they also want Scottish funding cut even more and Scottish MP’s kept out of English affairs too.

    How does that work in the real world.

    Another jolly day in teamGB

  64. hetty says:

    meant that I am from slightly South of the border, ie N E England.

  65. heedtracker says:

    Prof Roger Scully of Cardiff University’s Welsh Governance Centre says to BBC

    “Put bluntly, the English are more inclined to want to play hard-ball with Scotland.”

    Or the whole issue ends with Yes 18th Sept and they can all be happy again, knowing that they don’t have to play hard balls with anyone, presumably.

  66. Grouse Beater says:

    Dr McIntosh: The continuous stream of outrageous lies, half truths and misinformation by the MSM to rubbish Scotland and its people across the whole of the UK and beyond has been very destructive.

    I agree. The mounting threats are akin to oppression.

    The Achitecture of Violence – grousebeater.wordpress

  67. Ken500 says:

    News quest is owned by Gannet & Co – US company.

    Google Newsquest

    Newsquest is involved in UK Gov publication. Ie Does business with the UK Gov paid by Public money.

    Newsquest published the above ‘stories’ in return for UK gov business paid for by public money. Westminster corruption holds no bounds.

  68. McTim says:

    Surely that’s got to be the tipping point for soft No voters to switch to Yes. Retribution from London will be swift and nasty if we don’t grasp that chance.

  69. bjsalba says:

    @Paul

    On the issue of the elderly being misinformed about pounds and Euros from 19th.

    Point out that the independence date is not for 18 months.

    Ask them if they remember decimalization? Did they wipe out our bank balances in £sd? Those of us over 60 will remember that.

  70. Ken500 says:

    Westminster are paying the Press public money (bribes), to facilitate ‘stories’ against the public interest.

  71. Ken500 says:

    Westminster are paying the Press public money (bribes) to facilitate ‘stories’ (ie lies) against the public interest.

  72. Alt Clut says:

    If there is still anyone out there who doesn’t spend as much time as humanly possible out on the streets with their local YES group then now is your last chance to go where it counts.

    Wings, Newsnet and the others are completely vital to this struggle but it must be won by human contact, at meetings and one to one. Get into the fight not into your computer chair.

    It is stark now how dreadful defeat will be. We can and must win – every hour of volunteer time will contribute to our YES majority. Fight to win with all your strength !

  73. Matt Seattle says:

    A wee thought – in conversation with no, answer ‘better together’ with ‘better at what?’ or ‘better for who?’

    And a heartening note, one of my veryfew FB friends who ‘liked’ BT is now firm Yes.

  74. Grouse Beater says:

    I lost count ages ago of the number of times a unionist troll would scream Scotland is NOT oppressed. (Meaning shut up, or take the consequences.)

  75. Craig P says:

    “The only way to guarantee higher public spending in Scotland is to vote no,” bears an uncanny resemblance to the line from the 1970s devo referendum, “the only way to keep the shipyards and mines open is to vote no.” Wonder if Scots will fall for it this time.

  76. notWillieRennie says:

    Yes, I think its fair that each ‘region’ gets the same amount of public spending per head, but…

    …shouldn’t each ‘region’ also put in the same amount per head, leaving Scotland with a sizeable surplus.

    I’m sure Westminster, the BBC and MSM will agree this is fair.

  77. On Sept 20th Salmond MUST call an Emergency Holyrood General Election to ensure there will be ZERO Scottish MP`s going to Westminster or being elected to there on May 5-6th 2015.

    We cannot possibly allow SLAB, FIBDEMS or a tory to undermine our newly won Freedom via dirty tricks at Westminster.

    The Holyrood General Election date MUST be before the Westminster elections.

    Given today`s attacks and viral consequences if we vote “NO” – CAN ANYONE NOW DOUBT – THAT VICTORY is in our hands.

    However, complacency breeds contempt.
    Their contempt is as vicious as it was in 1979 and before.

  78. gillie says:

    John Bull speaks loud and clear.

    Yes or No
    England will crow.

  79. heedtracker says:

    Herald’s In the event of a Yes vote, the survey also found: stuff is interesting

    l 69 per cent agreed and 13 per cent disagreed that there should be no border checks between Scotland and England.

    l 26 per cent agreed and 36 per cent disagreed with the UK supporting an independent Scotland’s bid to join the EU and Nato;

    While 70 per cent of Tory and Ukip supporters are in favour of cutting public spending in Scotland, in the event of a No vote, there is also substantial support from those who back Labour, 50 per cent, and those who back the Liberal Democrats, 54 per cent.

  80. heedtracker says:

    “There appears to be little appetite for the Scottish Government’s vision of independence amid continuing partnership with the rest of the UK on the pound, Europe and Nato. If anything the message appears to be: ‘Vote Yes by all means but if you do, you’re on your own.’

    Also interesting. Lifetime of scrounger jocks becomes nation state of Scotland. Sounds a bit healthier to me.

  81. Macart says:

    @heed

    “substantial support from those who back Labour, 50 per cent, and those who back the Liberal Democrats, 54 per cent.”

    Heh, no surprises there then. 🙂

  82. Kiereann says:

    I thought the population of Scotland was 6.3 million … not sure about the £7.42 instead of £4 billion figure either as it may refer only to tax payers or adults…

    Anyway, that’s not why I’m typing.

    What we are being told is that for having the audacity to enter into a genuine democratic process we are now to believe that the people of England wish to punish the people of Scotland? Naaaa, this is just the mindless mainstream media doing its best to fulfill the bidding of the government.

    If there is any truth to these articles then consider; it is the duty and function of MPs to promote the wishes of their constituents (no, don’t laugh). Thus MPs will be required to implement this revenge but will only be in a position to do so should Scotland remain within the Union.

    Consider instead the position of the loving parent listening intently as their eldest suggests that it might like to try living in their own flat or take a year out before college. Does one say, “of course darling but remember we are always here for you” or, “piss off and don’t darken my door again”.

    Westminster knows only how to wage a war, not broker peace. In so doing it has created this perfect storm where the official line has become “dammed if you don’t”.

    So do … vote yes.

  83. Ken500 says:

    (Foreign) Times has once again different front cover (lies) south of the Border. ‘Muslins told to vote for Mayor’, or other such nonsense.

  84. Edward says:

    Just listened to Zelda the mad witch being interviewed on GMS
    The topic being the BBC. Zelda , true to form provided gems
    such as ‘Scotland provide £ 300 million from the licence payers (actually according to Lord Bird its £ 320 million) and get £ 3 billion back’
    next gem ‘a future Scottish state broadcaster would only have a budget of £ 250 million, which wouldn’t be enough so licence fees would have to increase or quality would go down’ Wait a minute what happened to the ‘£ 300 million’ coming in from the licence payers?
    Curran was then questioned about English voters punishing Scotland if there is a no vote. She claimed that wasn’t her findings……………

  85. heedtracker says:

    “But if Scots vote No, there’s something similar at play. Here the message is: ‘By all means have more devolution but you can’t then have the role at Westminster you do now and don’t expect any funding to flow northwards from England.'”

    It’s that “by all means have” that really gets to the core of rule Britannia in Scotland, and from what?sneaky journos in teamGB newsrooms, wet fart academics in ivory towers, Britnat CIFers enraged at just the thought of England no longer Lands End to John o Groats.

  86. Ken500 says:

    @ Muslims

  87. gerry parker says:

    Since very few of the people that matter read these papers, the threats will have no effect on them. Since the people who read this blog have the intelligence to see what’s happening, they will expose the MSM for what it is.

    The way to treat threats is to stand up and face them off.

    Another 2 YES posters spotted in the Iron Burgh today.

    We’ll win this, the MSM is fighting this battle with yesterday’s tools.

    Do something each day however small from now till the 18th to convince a no or a don’t know.

  88. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    @macart763m
    Our have got it bang on with your post.

    Westminster have lied to ALL their people -Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland and this is what will finally break up the UK.

    If they had been honest and built a case for retaining the Union as sharing our resources and crediting the great Scottish contribution then they may have some chance of saving it. But it too late now and there is no going back.

    The Union – what Union?
    It is gone – vote YES.

  89. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    It’s astonishing just how little the westminster parties understand the scottish public. Gratifying too obviously since their counter-productive stupidity can only help Yes, but still pretty staggering.

    The scottish public now have the absolute power to tell westminster politicians to fuck right off forever, should we choose to. So you would think they might show a wee bit more respect instead of the endless spite and desperate threats against scots and scotland.

    More fool them. Bring it on.

  90. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    You not Our?
    too early

  91. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Since the postal vote date is fast approaching it would be remiss not to remind Yes supporters that there is no better time to help out at a Yes shop or start leafleting than now if you haven’t yet got round to it.

  92. Juteman says:

    Mention this story to as many folk as possible today. We need to make sure non internet folk know what will happen in the event of a No vote.

  93. Nana Smith says:

    Have just read some of the comments on the herald guff and it seems the survey was carried out in April around the time the media were spouting the Scots may boo the English during the commonwealth games.

    Perfect time to carry out a survey with some rather skewed questions.

  94. ronnie anderson says:

    Weell Blair Mc Blabber never tiers of telling us BT have a Obama Guru working with them,it must be Homer Simpson
    blah blah blah.

  95. Training Day says:

    @Edward

    Yeah, the Curran interview was comedy gold. As was the its premise, that of the state broadcaster asking a Unionist parrot just how bad life would be without the BBC.

    But the most significant part of the interview came in relation to the subject in hand. When asked about the attitude of the English with regard to spending in Scotland post a No vote, Curran said she was ‘confident she could persuade’ her English colleagues that current levels of spending could be maintained.

    So there you have it, No voters. Your future depends on the negotiating skills of Margaret Curran.

  96. Shame that it turns out they were never our friends ,just raiders of our wealth. English nationalism probably the most dangerous and hated in the world.
    I would like to see this vote observed by an independent international organisation. This lot don’t believe in democracy and will do anything deceitful to to win.
    The ordinary person in England has no idea about the financial truth in our pally UK, come a YES on the 18th and for 18 months thereafter , they are in for a very very nasty wake up call.
    Who needs enemies when you have friends like these.

  97. heedtracker says:

    @ Macart, Neat little Times, Alan Massie ” NHS claims are just scaremongering” headline slipped in there too. He’s just one more sneaky shit but they just want to create as much tension, bad will, confusion and worry as they possibly can.

    Yesterday Press and journal had Daily Heil style “House price joy for North East as prices shoot up at £5000 a month in Aberdeen, in the UK!” joy.

    Blergh and I added in the UK bit but didn’t need to.

  98. Ken500 says:

    Obama is one of the most unpopular politicians in the US.

  99. G H Graham says:

    Add another £2 billion of cost cutting to that number. Why?

    Well, George Osborne produced his public spending forecast right up to 2018/2019 in his last Spring budget.

    According to his own figures, he is going to have to reduce public spending across the UK by an average of £20 billion each year, every year from now until 2018/2019 if he has any chance of balancing the budget.

    But that’s not my claim, his budget forecast shows a balanced budget in 2018/2019 so this target is all his own.

    And since you can crudely attribute 10% of that £20 billion to Scotland, expect around £2 billion to be cut regardless of the political impact of the referendum.

    So by 2018/2019, assuming all other things being equal, Scotland will somehow have to get by with £10 billion less in 2018/2019 than it receives today.

    Not sure if that’s a big number or not? Well, the entire NHS in Scotland has an annual budget now of just under £12 billion.

    Anyone on the unionist side who says the NHS in Scotland is not under threat from Westminster is simply bare faced lying to you.

  100. Stevie boy says:

    Agree with everyone above that WE all need to get out there and chat to anyone that will listen, whatever they plan to vote at the minute.
    I spoke with Undecided’s and Yes voters at a play centre y’day (mostly because they saw my Yes badge and wanted to engage) when there with my daughter. Even Yes supporters hadn’t heard of the McCrone report or the vast oil reserves being hushed up.

    PEOPLE NEED TO BE INFORMED. PLEASE HELP THEM TO HELP THEMSELVES!!!

    Without a democratic media system it’s down to US.. keep up the good work people.

    As they say… AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!

  101. Ken500 says:

    Anti Salmond propaganda, bring in a large spousal salary to a Press journal editorial.

  102. heedtracker says:

    Alistair Darling says Scots oil is running out, vote No Aberdeen City Council say

    http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/tourism_visitor_attractions/tourists_visitors/statistics/stt_itsafact.asp
    Why this facitoid’s at No 34 is any unionist’s guess

    34. Almost half the recoverable oil reserves in the North Sea have still to be developed.

  103. Macart says:

    @Dr JM Mackintosh

    “If they had been honest and built a case for retaining the Union “

    They didn’t because they couldn’t. The union or more accurately the state/establishment and their system of government had patently failed the populace long since. The evidence of patronage, corruption, inept and catastrophic government spans decades and that’s just the stuff the public are aware of. Gawd knows what’s buried never to see the light of day in terms of abuse of power or scandal.

    People are well aware of how trustworthy Westminster is in Scotland. All that’s ever been needed is to convince them of their own strength, give them confidence in themselves and let the natural inclination toward both personal and collective independence take its course.

    Couple of links:

    http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/letter-to-a-wee-ginger-dug-from-an-ordinary-gran/

    http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/07/05/independence-for-the-intimidated/

    http://survation.com/as-the-gap-closes-between-the-yes-and-no-campaigns-who-do-scots-trust-with-scotlands-future/

  104. niall says:

    o/t a little. Malcolm Chislom blog claiming health privisation makes for an increase in health budget. Any thoughts, folks?http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/blog/entry/the-big-lie

  105. Murray McCallum says:

    Masochists for No must be chuffed at these headlines.

  106. Will Podmore says:

    Do you really think that the people make policy? One poll, made up by Professor Wyn Jones, and you think it represents government policy. Who is this good professor? Not one of the few remaining Welsh nationalists, is he?
    It is not government policy to cut Scotland’s public spending to the UK average, and it is not Labour party policy either.
    This just another scare story – Project Fear is alive and well – in Wings!

  107. Macart says:

    @heed

    Tellin’ you heed, they’re just desensitising the UK electorate to steps they were going to take regardless of this referendum. This was always the path of travel for an increasingly right wing, authoritarian establishment and the future of the union.

    IMO the best way to save the union of peoples on these islands was always to dissolve the political union with Westminster.

  108. bunter says:

    Just had a passing glance at anti Scottish Daily Retard front page monstering of Salmond and claims of NHS privatisation. Big spread inside with SLab mouthpieces spouting scaremongering etc.

    This rag deserves to go down the tubes as clearly it and SLab prefer Tories holding the purse strings for our NHS rather than us.

    We should make it our mission to rubbish this rag and discourage folks from buying it.

  109. No no no...yes says:

    Nana Smith 8.48am
    The text in the Scotsman archived article says that the survey was carried out in April by You gov BUT WAS HELD BACK UNTIL NOW, by the Economic and Research Council, who commissioned the poll.
    THE QUESTION IS WHY WAS IT HELD BACK UNTIL NOW AND GIVEN FRONT PAGE COVERAGE?

  110. Alistair Sheehy Hutton says:

    If it’s anything like their previous surveys then most respondents agree that the Scottish Parliament should pay for its services out of its own taxes.

    Do the respondents know that would inculde the oil money?

  111. Meindevon says:

    BBC news papers review of the independents take on this poll last night was shocking. Very disappointed in Miranda Green and even worse was some dork called Neil Midgley. He was surprised that England wanted to keep Scotland as ‘public spending is so much higher and paid for partly by English taxes blah de blah’

    Westminster is all tied up in knots now it seems. We need Scotland to stay but can’t tell the English the real reason why, but now the English are so full of disgust for Scotland’s subsidy junkies stealing their taxes and voting on English only matters that they can’t wait to be rid of them!

    What a mess!

    And for us down here..well it could get a bit worrying. I’ve already been told we should be sent home if we don’t want to be here (because I said I thought Scotland would be better off independent) and that was someone I considered a friend.

  112. Stevie boy says:

    Regarding the oil reserves.. if there’s a No vote we will never get another chance of a Referendum.. because when eventually the oil does dry up Westminster will ditch us first as we will be of no use to them.
    Then it will be too late. The time has to be now when we can still save Scotland while she’s still breathing!!!
    Plus after how scared Westminster is of a Yes vote just now does anyone really belief they will take this risk again.. no chance!!

  113. Graeme Doig says:

    Caught one line of the Curran interview this morning. In the space of 2 seconds she stated, and i paraphrase, that a WM Labour gvt would ‘pass’ em …. ‘propose’ a bill for further devolution. Maybe getting caught up in semantics here but interesting how she came across.
    The bold statements of fact about what we are being offered post ‘no’ (if you could call them that in the first place) certainly didn’t sound anything like the ‘guarantees’ they keep shouting about.
    But then we all know that.

  114. a2 says:

    Will you’ll be just as shafted as the rest of us.

    In thanks for your no vote.

    While your Beloved labour party sits impotent or complicit.

    What does it matter what their policy is?

    Is wings now dictating the editorial policy of The Herald and the times that it can plant a nat scare story?

    Wake up man, I know you aren’t stupid.

  115. Ken500 says:

    Unionists politicans on Aberdeen City Council are the most unpopular politicans in the NE.

  116. Robert Kerr says:

    Never forget folks

    “Power devolved is Power retained”

    Whilst we remain in a unitary state Westminster can do what it wants!

    A Free Independent Scotland is a must have!

  117. heedtracker says:

    @ Macart, more importantly, how are they even going to implement all these vote No or else threats, without informally ending the union even if we vote No?

    So they keep on cutting Barnett, keep on attacking Holyrood AND they stop Scottish MP’s voting on English affairs in Westminster. That will last:D

    What is an English affair and a Scottish affair anyway in Westminster? right everyone, the Englsih Ayes only have it for HS2, HS3, HS4 completed 2030, paid for with Scottish taxpayers hard earned and our Scots oil. Next up, London Cross Rail 2, £20 billion, English only Ayes have it, and again, Scots chip in, UKOK oil pays the rest. Rule Britannia.

  118. Drunken Hobo says:

    One of the things that has saddened me the most about this referendum is the sheer number of vitriolic, xenophobic & just plain abusive comments from people in England towards those in Scotland. I really thought the majority attitude would be “get out whilst you can”, but as the debate has rolled on, we’ve been shown just how much we are “loved” by our neighbours.

    It’s not entirely their fault. A lot are brainwashed by a media that loves to pin the blame on anything in order to distract from Westminster’s failings, whether it be Scotland, immigration or the EU, and of course we have seen a great number of well-wishing comments too.

    And of course, none of the abuse ever makes it into the papers or on TV, whilst saying Clare Lally might be related to someone else is seen as the most horrific form of abuse.

  119. Ken500 says:

    Who paid (Unionist) You gov for the April survey. The UK Gov?

  120. iheartScotland says:

    Folk in England believe we’re subsidy junkies because Labour never had the courage to defend the truth. It suited Labours agenda to continually lie. Well, the truth will be out regardless. Roll on Independence. ..vote Yes

  121. Black Douglas says:

    We need to be very careful on this latest scare story as it would appear that BTUKOK’ers are trying to make us dance to the unionist campaign tune.

    Remember when we first started out many, many moons ago now how our campaign was positive and forward thinking(and still is) and a positive campaign is always victorious over a negative one.

    These planted stories can only be used for a couple of reasons.

    1. BTUKOKers have a rigid campaign and they are sticking to it no matter what and this was their pre-planned next move. They expected a landslide no vote and saw an ideal opportunity to kill two birds with one stone i.e. once and for all castigate the Scots(we voted for it) and reduce our block grant with the will of the rUK populace.

    or

    2. They are deliberatley trying to get the YES campaign to focus on the negatives, we all know by now that the more negative campaign wins and lets face it we can’t out negative the Naysayers.

    Canada and Quebec spring to mind.

    I do agree that we have to make sure that this new phase in the BTUKOK’ers campaign is highlighted and the Rev is doing an excellent and outstanding job on so many levels at doing this but we also need to keep the more positive message to the fore and we will WIN!

    Rant over i’ll get my coat 😀

  122. heedtracker says:

    Ultimately, it’s all about No taxation without representation. So which is it dear britnats? And Let’s all vote for Trident 2 or is that English matter or a Scottish matter?

  123. Macart says:

    I don’t think they honestly give a shit heed. By their lights a no vote will sanction any and all actions they take. The UK electorate have already been prepped with anti-Scottish sentiment and won’t lift a finger in protest. The Scottish electorate would effectively be powerless to resist and as far as W1 is concerned its job done.

  124. HandandShrimp says:

    The No campaign has majored big time on trying to scare people in Scotland into voting No by telling us how utterly useless we are and how impoverished we would be if it were not for the largesse of tax payers in England. The notion that they could mass produce this bilge day in and day out and for it not to resonate with people in England was always a forlorn one. The kick back is all too evident and I don’t see how the clamour for a pound flesh if it is a No vote can be assuaged.

  125. kendomacaroonbar says:

    It was an English constituency MP that made the 40% devo referendum rule. Where were the howls of protest in the English MSM at that time ..or ever for that matter ?

  126. Joe Swan says:

    Let me see if I understand this.

    Vote NO for ‘Quadruple Austerity’ which we will impose on you.

    Or

    Vote YES for only ‘Double austerity’ which you told us yesterday.

    Mmm… Difficult one.

    Either way, it looks like the Westminster Eton Flashmen want to line us up, bend us over and give us a thoroughly good caning for having the temerity to ask for a democratic voice for our own country.

    I’m voting YES to get rid of these ’austerity bullies’ once and for all.

    I’m also going to buy The Herald or The Times (I know, shame on me) and give it to the few people I know who are voting NO.

    A NO vote is no longer for the ‘status quo’. It is for something much much worse.

  127. Hewitt83 says:

    O/T

    Another soft No at work converted to Yes.

    Why?

    The WBB.

    Send it far and wide!

  128. SquareHaggis says:

    Move any mountain

    The Shamen

  129. iheartScotland says:

    @Drunken Hobo,
    I’ve been reading the Guardian for years.
    The cif comments from English folk just confirm that the Union is over regardless of the outcome of the vote.

  130. Stevie boy says:

    I am becoming increasingly more concerned that vote rigging or some form of voting malarkey will happen as Westminster clearly appears to be willing to do anything for a No vote. They simply have too much to lose.
    I had a postal vote for a while there due to work commitments but I cancelled it for this as I don’t trust that they will not be ‘tampered’ with. Also keep hearing that we should all take a pen IMO the polling station incase the pencil mark will be changed.
    Democratic Britain… yeah right!
    It is a serious point though.. will we be conned yet again?

  131. heedtracker says:

    @ Macart, it’s interesting though watching localised UKOK propaganda like the Press and journal in action and take their jittery excitement over north East house prices going up.

    Are they saying you’re economicaly safe/secure/successful in teamGB, so it doesn’t matter what happens electorally or constitutionally? AlicSamin’s a liar and fool, Holyrood’s a pretendy parliament, Westminster works, UKOK works, your fine, vote No, love the BBC, loyal Brits, look, a cute puppy, support your local sports team, worship the queen…

    And all for only 70p.

  132. iheartScotland says:

    Sorry, what I mean is the damage that has been done to the Union can’t be undone

  133. iheartScotland says:

    Sorry, what I mean is the damage that has been done to the Union can’t be undone

  134. iheartScotland says:

    Apologies for the double post

  135. Roddy MacLeod says:

    IMHO the worst thing for BTNT to do is to threaten Scots.
    Generally we do not react well to threats.
    They just might have done enough to tip the balance.

  136. Brian Fleming says:

    @heedtracker

    The rump UK will no have no say on Scotland’s membership of the EU. In respect of NATO, they’ll do what Uncle Sam tells them to do.

  137. No no no...yes says:

    If this survey was done in April, it could explain the timimg in the change in emphasis from better together to No Thanks.Am I just being cynical?

  138. Nana Smith says:

    Squarego is asking a question over on off topic.

    He says

    I’m hearing of queues of people at John Street, Glasgow to register to vote. Anyone got info on this? An awakened population, or busloads of people from England and NI shipped in to boost the No vote?
    Is anyone checking it out?

  139. Ken500 says:

    Malcolm Chishom (retiring) should define between -10% of private activity in the NHS and 50%+ of private activity in the NHS. It is a question of degree.

    Do taxpayers fund the NHS, a majority in favour in Britain, or is the NHS privatised to comply with the wishes of greedy Westminster MP’s. Westminster lies, profit and greed against the public interest or following the majority wishes of the UK electorate. ConDems governing without a mandate.

  140. Greannach says:

    I was talking to an English guy at a party on Saturday when the referendum question came up. At first I thought he was doing a parody of the zaniest type of Britnat views, but he was serious. Salmond will turn iScotland into a Communist state; no EU membership; forced into Eurozone; starvation; oil running out; no currency; reduced to barter; border built along the Tweed/Solway; mass emigration; mass immigration; not allowed to send MPs to England; etc. This guy wasn’t a nut, just reads papers and watches the ‘news’ on TV. What other drivel are they being fed?

  141. Stevie boy says:

    Sounds very dodgy to me!!

    As I just said.. I worry about the integrity of the voting system.

  142. Dan Huil says:

    So there we have it: Vote No for even more cuts.
    At least the English people are being honest about it, unlike unionist politicians.

  143. Papadox says:

    IMHO.

    When HMG ruled out devo max, the game was all or nothing, all the chips into the pot. They were not going to be happy with a share of the oil revenues plus trident on the clyde. Once this was achieved, Scotland’s parliament would be boxed in and emasculated in their own time and to the level they want.

    As I have said on here many times. The intelligence services #1 objective is defence of and preservation of the state AT ANY COST.

    The propaganda being fed to England is completely different to that being fed to Scotland ie. divide and rule. The only thing that is consistent is the different lies being fed to Scotland and England. The truth is a casualty.

  144. heedtracker says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/19/private-patient-income-soars-nhs-privatisation

    Another interesting slice of England only news from Nicholas Watt, who regularly hoofs Scotland right in the democratic nuts. Sneaky shit Massie of the Times and Labour in Scotland says Yes Scotland is projectfearing it over Scots NHS, meanwhile…

    “As new figures show that some hospitals have seen a big increase of up to 40% in their private income since the cap was lifted, Labour accused ministers of presiding over a scandal of declining standards for NHS patients while allowing paying patients to enjoy high standards of care.”

    Different campaigns require different liars.

  145. Stevie boy says:

    Greannach,

    That’s the thing, I believe a lot of our own people are believing this tripe in the papers and not just the English. We need to inform them and spread the word regarding the lies.

  146. JWil says:

    Fear and intimidation is all they have left to offer Scots.

    It looks like they have given up totally. It could be like S Africa, with a reconciliation committee being set up whatever the result.

    We will be much less vulnerable after a YES vote.

  147. Ken500 says:

    If the Referendum is found to be fraudulent. It will be declared Null and void. There will be a re-run.

    Postal votes have to be mixed with regular votes, for fraud to be hidden. Not likely to happen in a Referendum. Ie it can happen on an individual constituency base but countrywide. Unlikely. Too difficult to organise.

  148. heedtracker says:

    “Thomas told the Guardian: “When more people are waiting on trolleys or waiting longer to see their GP, it is a scandal that top hospitals are allowed to prioritise increasing income from private patients. Lifting the cap on the level of private patient income is just one further example of the creeping privatisation of NHS services.”

    But just last I watched Jacky Bird of all powerful BBC in Scotland sneer at Scotland’s FM, England is not privatising the NHS, you lying fool.

    I added the you lying fool bit, but did I really need to?

  149. Bit of a stushie says:

    @Snode1965 at 6.25am

    Refer your head teacher to the White Paper. Its proposal is to retain the current approach to denominational schools on the grounds that faith-based education in Scotland is important, valued and consistent with parental choice. This precise question is answered on page 448 of the White Paper (Question 230) and there’s more on education generally in Chapter 5 starting on page 186. Good luck.

  150. Les Wilson says:

    We so need to get rid of the Union which was only designed to subvert everything Scottish and bend them to the will of Westminster giving them the power over our lives in every way.

    This ongoing madness of the MSM in stirring up anti Scottish feeling in England will just embitter both sides, it could be so different yet the seem to be hell bent on doing it.

    Things will be radically different in a free Scotland and we will choose to pick our friends. I think after the YES vote and right up to Independence day we will have to put up with this garbage, threats will abound.

    After that pragmatism will creep back in, and both sides will calm down and resume mutual beneficial ways and will deal with the reality of the situation.

  151. JWil says:

    My contention is that this survey on the views of the English on his matter are so coloured by the propaganda and lies of the press that the results can only be irrational. Ignorance reigns south of the border. This has been obvious all along, merely from reading the comments on articles in the London newspapers.

  152. Muscleguy says:

    This story is all based on a YouGov poll. So take the figures quoted with a large pinch of well iodised table salt.

    What’s the betting their sample was biased by the resentful and entitled? Their Scottish sampling is anything but representative, so why should their English sampling be any better?

    I used to be with them but got so fed up with polls I couldn’t complete because there was no ‘none of the above’ or equivalent button. I emailed them about the problem, got assurances that it would be fixed but it wasn’t. Rushed polls pushed out in a hurry and on the cheap to keep the money rolling in is the YouGov model. They are the pile ’em high sell ’em cheap of pollsters and you get what you pay for.

  153. Brotyboy says:

    O/T

    A comment on James Kelly’s excellent SCOT goes POP! blog has provided a link to William Hill’s own figures for the percentage of people backing Yes/No.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuyBqaaCcAAtKD_.jpg:large

    Well done Dundee and Motherell. Come on Major, Embra still a little way to go.

    The poster is Mick Pork on the thread ‘YouGov poll is even better for Yes among definite voters’

  154. TYRAN says:

    What a big cry baby! Bwah! He no play with me!

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000112

  155. Jim says:

    Yes voters via radical Independence campaign poll:

    Easterhouse, Glasgow – 76%
    Drumchapel, Glasgow – 72.4%
    Alexandria, West Dunbartonshire – 68.6%
    Hillhouse, Hamilton – 73%
    East End, Glasgow – 76.1%
    Larkfield, Greenock – 65.3%
    Charleston, Dundee – 72.8%
    Fintry, Dundee – 59.3%
    Seaton, Aberdeen – 71.5%
    Raploch, Stirling – 51.5%
    Castlemilk, Glasgow – 73.3%
    Greenhills, East Kilbride – 72.6%
    Lochside, Dunfries – 54.2%
    Gorbals, Glasgow – 73.3%
    Inverness – 60.3%
    Bonnyrigg, Midlothian – 65.5%
    Parkhall & Whitecrook, Clydebank – 60.1%
    Pollok, Glasgow – 65%
    Templehall, Kirkcaldy – 69.6%

  156. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Jim

    Raploch 51.5%… that surprises me tbh

  157. John says:

    The establishment are quite happy to see the back of uppity Scotland. Why were the cuts postponed in Scotland until after the Holyrood election? So that Labour wouldn’t win, same with referendum, they have to look like they care, but will ultimately say enough to give enough yes votes and lose the troublesome “Jocks”.
    On the pen in the polling booth, I asked the electoral commission and it’s ok to take a pen in to use. It’s also ok to leave that pen for the next voter to use, so pick the correct pen to leave for the next voter.

  158. Proud Cybernat says:

    As I have oft said, after a No vote the Westminster bayonet (courtesy of Ian Davidson, MP), knows not the difference between a YES voter and a NO voter. We’ll ALL get it.

  159. Graeme Doig says:

    Jim

    Not surprised by these numbers. Margo Macdonald stated that if each of us convinced one other person we’d be home and dry.
    WBB now working it’s magic amongst my colleagues (most are Yes already) and there is nothing the unionist establishment can do about it 🙂

  160. Fireproofjim says:

    Don’t blame the average Englishman for this. For years the Daily Mail and the rest of the Media in England have been pumping out a relentless stream of anti-Scottish propaganda.
    You may think the Scottish editions are bad, but you should see the London editions! The never ending story always runs along the lines of “Why should we in England continue to give handouts to these whinging Jocks to fritter away on free prescriptions, education, etc.”
    Naturally, if every media outlet is doing the same, people who have no access to any other information will be taken in by it.
    After a Yes vote the Englishman will be surprised and angry how much he has been lied to, and a political upheaval south of the border is almost inevitable.
    I hope that we will be nice to him. I’m sure that we will.

  161. Robert Peffers says:

    Oh! Come on Guys & Girls.
    This idiotic survey that claims the English people think Scotland gets a larger per capita funding only exposes two possible facts. The good people of England have not been told the truth or have not thought things through.

    The truth being that the Westminster quoted figures do indeed show more is spent per person in Scotland but it is only one side of an equation. The whole calculation is that the English, Welsh, N. Irish quoted per capita figures do not include the cost of central government provided functions that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

    I’ll put that another way – When they devolve a function to Holyrood that was previously provided by Westminster then they must also transfer the funding for that function to the Scottish Block Grant. This artificially shows the Scottish per capita funding has increased. The problem is thus, as usual. Westminster creative accounting.

    Vote YES and such creative accounting will be a thing of the past as will the Westminster iron grip on Scottish resources. The truth can best be illustrated by asking the English, “If we Scots are such a drain upon the Westminster economy during this dire financial crisis, can you explain why Westminster is so cross-party agreed to fight to the last fibre of their being to hold onto such a loss-making part of the Union they claim is dragging them down”?

    Answers on a Post Card to 10 Downing Street, London, England, United Kingdom, Britain.

  162. Stevie boy says:

    I use 888 Sport for betting. Very interesting odds recently!

    A No vote was 1/9 for weeks with Yes 17/4. Then the Yes odds started to come down last week to 15/4 and then to 7/2 while No went out to 1/7.

    On Monday morning I expected the odds to have shortened again for Yes but to my surprise they went back out to 17/4 with No shortened to 1/10!!

    I have already placed several bets as 17/4 is far too good in a campaign where No certainly isn’t that much of a favourite and I believe it’s only big bets on the No side being placed to add to Project Fear.

    To all of Scotland I say bet Yes, vote Yes and make yourself independent and richer at the same time 🙂

  163. PeeGee says:

    While watching the baseball on Monday the commentators talked about one of their players had signed up to the bone marrow register. He was matched up and went through the donation process which involved being unable to play for a few months due to the treatments necessary to have enough bone marrow removed.
    Very heartwarming story of professional sportsman not being a soccer moron.

    Turns out that recipient was a girl in Ukraine. Apparently this sort if thing is impossible in the world of labour sleazebags and their SMSM scum followers.

    G Brown is pure evil. Do anything for power. Kill a million in Iraq. No problem. Tell vulnerable elderly constituents that they’ll lose their pensions. He’s fine with that. Do bugger all about the radiation on Dalgety bay beach while he was PM then moan about it to get his revolting features back in the news. Tosser!

  164. galamcennalath says:

    Jim says:
    “Yes voters via radical Independence campaign poll”

    Looking good, however, all indications are that this is the demographic where YES is strongest. To translate these into a YES win means getting large numbers of people from these areas out on the 18th.

    To put a little bit of a damper on it, if similar canvasing was done in the posh suburbs of Edinburgh, the exact opposite would be found. And, Tory type people do turn out to vote!

    Back to the positive … this deluge from the MSM of what NO will mean, is bound to cause a swing to YES across society!

  165. Haggis Hunter says:

    No voters will be Turkeys voting for Christmas

  166. niall says:

    Raploch is well over 51.5%. More like 65-70. Its a sea of Yes posters down there.

  167. caz-m says:

    So the English want us to stay but they also want to beat us to within an inch of our lives.

    Using the married couple analogy, the husband is telling his wife she is going nowhere, you will do as I say not as I do and also, the money he puts into the household budget to feed her and the kids and pay the bills with, is being slashed.

    That does not sound like a very good relationship to me.

    The first thing you would say to the wife is, “you need to get out of that relationship, quickly.”

    If you offered the wife a way out of that relationship, so she would be free from this abusive partner, that had a brighter future for her and her children, then I am sure she would take it.

    Scotland is in a similar relationship with Westminster and we are being offered an opportunity on 18th September to get out of the abusive marriage and start a new life for our children.

    We must grasp this opportunity with both hands and Vote YES.

  168. David S Briggs says:

    @Ken500 ‘Obama is one of the most unpopular politicians in the US’

    I rather think that would be a feather in his cap. Have you read how repulsive the opposition is in the USA. Isn’t it possible that attitudes are shaped by a right wing press as they are in the UK?

    I expect you’re quite happy at the way the ‘Yes’ campaign are treated by the right wing press in the UK?

  169. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    The good people of England have not been told the truth or have not thought things through.

    Which puts them in the same position as we Scots! I think most Scots are a bit ahead of that now, many more having thought things through more.

  170. caz-m says:

    I hope this story is getting spread far and wide throughout Scotland.

  171. AndyC says:

    The referendum was always seen by the establishment as an opportunity to destroy the SNP once and for all,and thereafter any delusions we have for independence.
    The ‘scottish’ unionist parties are never going to ask for a referendum, are they?….Problem sorted!
    They will continue to attack the SNP with everything they have.
    If we lose this, the MSM will blame the SNP for the whole debacle, and do their damnest to drive them from power and re-establish unionist labour.
    Power will be UNdevolved and we will be enslaved forever.
    Christ, this gets worse the more you think about it!
    We have to stop the devious b——s.
    This is getting really dirty now.
    Roll your sleeves up,folks!
    They have lost…they know it…a rigged vote is definately on the cards.

  172. Jim says:

    @galamcennalath
    These were apparent labour strongholds, working class areas which is where the vote will be won because they know this referendum is a chance for their voices to be heard and hopefully in time make a better life for themselves which they know will not happen under a Westminster Government that cares little, probably nothing, for their dreams and aspirations.

  173. Stevie boy says:

    The link to the William Hill betting figures is brilliant and shows that a vast majority of Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland are betting on a Yes vote with the exception of… you guessed it LONDON.

    Why doesn’t that surprise us. The big money bets to fund Project Fear!!

    To be fair the betting will help (a tad) to redistribute the wealth between London and the rest of Britain after a Yes vote 🙂

  174. Jim says:

    @niall
    Raploch is well over 51.5%. More like 65-70. Its a sea of Yes posters down there.
    _____________
    Possibly but I can only go on the information that I have read.

  175. goldenayr says:

    Has this been posted?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/banks-brexit-if-britain-leaves-europe-2014-8

    So much for business fleeing south after the YES vote.

  176. Cag-does-thinking says:

    A perfect storm for No. The impending election has meant English tough talk on Scotland. It’ll now be a race to see how each party can lower the bar to offer the English vote all kinds of punishments for Scottish temerity to challenge the “majority” view of England in the UK. Vote No and not only don’t get the sometime/maybe additional powers ever but lose a lot of what we have. You’d have to be a remarkably stupid turkey to vote for that kinda Christmas. Where’s Danny Alexander now then? What’s your plan B Danny?

  177. Haggis Hunter says:

    An English guy on Facebook going on about subsidied Scots, getting everything free. He was fair embarrassed to learn that Scotland contributes more and England’s priorities are non profit Aircraft carriers and Nukes, crippling them with debt and too slow to realise they cannot afford to be a super power

  178. Dan Huil says:

    Westminster has gambled and has now been caught out by its own dishonesty. It thought it could get away with telling people in Scotland one thing and people in England another.
    It’s been said before: regardless of the referendum result the union is finished.
    Deliciously ironic that the people who’ve done most to break up the union are the ones who claim to be the most in favour of the union.

  179. E Bernays says:

    In 1914 women in the UK were still not granted the vote.

    After World War I fighting ended, the right was extended in a limited fashion: The Representation of the People Act 1918 was passed, enfranchising women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications.

    That is, rich women with property in their third decade could have a voice.

    On 6 February, the Representation of the People Act 1918 was passed, enfranchising women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications. About 8.4 million women gained the vote. In November 1918, the Eligibility of Women Act was passed, allowing women to be elected into Parliament. The Representation of the People Act 1928 extended the voting franchise to all women over the age of 21, granting women the vote on the same terms as men

    It took a decade to realise that women had a voice that was equal to any man.

    As the current elected politician who formed a coalition to become Prime Minister at Westminster has said:

    Calm down dear, calm down!

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2011/apr/27/david-cameron-calm-down-dear

    As for these lovebombing headlines, it seems that punitive damages are being threatened, without proper process.

  180. Jim says:

    A bitter divorce is coming for sure.

  181. liz says:

    Just back from holiday in Italy in the poor south. Even the ‘inefficient’ Italy can manage to have an integrated transport system with ‘euro-star’ trains connecting every major town in the country.

    Met a lot of Brits and it would break your heart to listen to the defeatist attitudes from people who should know better – we would need ‘permission’ to use the £, we will be at the back of the Q for EU membership, all the companies will leave etc, etc – they don’t even realise that they are accepting being treated as second class citizens.

    Of course I refuted all of the above but only managed to convince a person from Manchester that he would vote Yes because of all the possibilities.

    I will now devote all of my spare time to the campaign – we cannot lose this.

    Does anyone know of anything that I could help with in mainly the Glasgow area but I can travel as I have a car?

  182. Jim says:

    Don’t fall into their divisionist trap because there will be a 5 page spread in all the nationals the very next day!

  183. Jim says:

    With over 450,000 from the rUK, living in Scotland, this is exactly what they want.

  184. goldenayr says:

    liz

    Go to your local YES office and volunteer.They’re usually next an SNP/Green constituency surgery.

  185. Jim Mitchell says:

    Do we know yet exactly how the questions were phrased?

    I too suspect a stirring up of the natives, but I don’t think the establishment is going to get the outcome it hoped for.

    I beleave that they have reached the desperation stage and as usual we should just keep on working our way!

  186. Indy_Scot says:

    Imagine the Yes camp announced that petrol prices would be cheaper in an Independent Scotland. How good would that be.

  187. Jim says:

    @Jim Mitchell
    Definitely stirring up hatred but we wont rise to it.

  188. Hewitt83 says:

    We should lay off the English.

    I don’t blame them for believing the MSM down there. Our ire should be reserved for the media and Unionist politicians.

    Let’s keep our eye on the prize.

  189. fred blogger says:

    Jim Mitchell
    spot on.
    they are bitter in defeat.
    we must continue, onwards and upwards.

  190. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    So yesterday it was “vote YES to save our NHS”, and today it is “vote YES to save Scotland”.

    I was going to vote YES anyway.

    I await tomorrow with interest though …

  191. Capella says:

    Re previous thread on Anders Foch Rasmussen. Perhaps his attendance at the Bilderberg meeting in Denmark in May explains his helpful interventions on Scottish Independence? Chats over the brandy and chocolates? List of participants here
    http://tinyurl.com/kmalxgp
    SWE Bildt, Carl Minister for Foreign Affairs
    USA Kissinger, Henry A. Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
    GBR Osborne, George Chancellor of the Exchequer
    USA Perle, Richard N. Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
    INT Rasmussen, Anders Fogh Secretary General, NATO
    etc etc
    Another fine bunch of Hogarthian grotesques (Tony Hancock).

  192. scunnered says:

    stevie boy
    bet 365 are 9/2 for a yes vote
    every week when my wage goes in i lump more on it
    i cannot believe the odds and to be honest its slightly worrying as the bookies rarely get it wrong but this time i think they have
    i wonder what currency they will be paying us out with hehehe….pound sterling please
    sorry o/t

  193. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @kendomacaroonbar and @Jim

    How are we going to get these people out and down to the polling stations.

    That could be THE deciding factor.

  194. john ferguson says:

    Obey or else. Didn’t the English government blockade Boston harbour to starve out the colonists who challenged their authority.(of course which led to independence) I can visualize Mags Curran sitting front row knitting while the guillotine did it’s work.

  195. themadmurph says:

    I see SLAB are having their final phase push this Friday 22nd August at the Emirates Arena, 1000 London Road, G40 3HY at 10.30am. You can hear Scottish Labour’s argument on why we must win this referendum. If anyone can attend to heckle or report on the lies.

  196. galamcennalath says:

    Revisiting the images at the top and what the newspapers said, just taken in that they imply puishment will be for the referendum.

    True enough, but only for a NO win. Then they will hit us hard. We Wingers are well aware of that and it is oft discussed. Everyone in Scotland needs to get that into their heads.

    But the additional thought I had was that if there is a YES win, then there won’t be any punishing done. Firstly, meating out punishment will not be within their power! Secondly, why should they? Independence will have been won and both sides will come to mutual agreement, to maximise mutual benefit. There will be points which are sticky to negotiate, I’m sure, but lets face it, everyone whats to avoid trouble for trouble’s sake.

  197. muttley79 says:

    The NHS story has the No campaign on the run. SLAB in particular are saying that the Yes campaign are scaremongering; ignoring the fact of Unison believing that the NHS in England is being privatised, and the consequences for the Scottish NHS. This issue is causing them all sorts of problems.

  198. bald eagle says:

    yehaw i can copy and paste ya dancer

  199. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I was talking to an English guy in France who is, I though, a reasonable sort.

    The conversation turned to the vote and when he learned that I was a YES he went raving bananas.

    He said that Salmond wanted Devo Max all the time so he could have the both of both Worlds. Protection by England and a land of milk and honey in Scotland, curtesy of England.

    He was beyond reasoning and was convinced that we would be offered Devo Max which we would accept because we will vote No.

    When I tried to explain that there is no way there would be a No vote and anyway, there is no guarantee of anything, he just stuck his fingers in his ears, metaphorically speaking.

    He gets his info from the BBC and the web editions of, the Daily Mail and Telegraph.

    These eople are the zombified ones who will get really nasty.

    He is convinced that Osbourne would refuse a CU, even if it caused an economic catastrophe in England because, we need punishing for voting YES.

    Incidentally, there is a very deep seated vein of racism in the English, and the Anglos, here. We are just a vote away of becoming an acceptable life form to be despised as untermensch.
    Scary.

  200. Hewitt83 says:

    OT

    BBC back to their worst today.

    “Scottish independence would have a devastating impact on the BBC”, Lord Birt said: “There would be many consequences if Scotland were to become independent but let us be clear what they would be for the BBC, and for broadcasting in Scotland and in the rest of the UK.”

    He went on to say: “Those who will vote for independence identify and expect many gains. But many of the advantages that the most creative and inspiring talents in Scotland have enjoyed for 300 years – of making a massive impact on a big stage to global acclaim – will be lost.”

    Utterly mental.

    I hate these Unionists. They say ‘it will be terrible, devastating etc’

    But don’t actually explain how or why.

  201. Calgacus says:

    Bbc news – row over DWP civil service chief ordering staff to vote no. Disgraceful

  202. caz-m says:

    Now is the time to contact your local YES group and tell them that you are reporting for duty.

    There is plenty of work that you can help out with, from folding window posters, making up deliveries with maps for the teams to get out to the houses, telephone canvassing, leafleting, street work and lots, lots more.

    We need to get window posters and car stickers through letterboxes, to get the local profile lifted and at the same time, it gives undecided voters that little bit of confidence that they have been looking for.

    Join YES today, “Your Country Needs You!”

  203. Fiona says:

    but lets face it, everyone whats to avoid trouble for trouble’s sake.

    Are you sure?

  204. bjsalba says:

    O/T I see Guardian claiming YES vote will hurt BBC Scotland. Don’t know

    I refuse to give their site a click count but is that because so many of us have turned in our licences?

  205. Auld Rock says:

    Do those grey suits AKA The Establishment,that lark in the depths of that snake-pit called Westminster never ever take at look back and see what history tells them. Such policies as now once again surfacing failed in Burma, Malaya, India, Kenya, Cypress and the worst example of all the treatment of the Irish. Every one of the above ended in bloodshed and they still became INDEPENDENT. They should carefully consider that you can only push a people so far. Sadly those poorly educated English public school boys know nothing of the basic laws of physics, like force and resistance, there is always a point of give unless the force = resistance, the San Andreas Fault is a classic example of this in the natural world. They should think very, very carefully what they are stirring-up.

    This will be even more so once Scotland starts to reap the benefits of Atlantic Oil/Gas and their miserable currency and their corrupt political system is vanishing down the tube and they come with their begging bowl, like a latter day Oliver Twist, wanting Scotland to bail them out.

    THINK CAREFULLY MR CAMERON YOU MIGHT JUST BE STIRRING-UP A HORNETS NEST.

    Auld Rock

  206. Fiona says:

    As I read Birt’s contribution he did NOT say that a yes vote will hurt BBC Scotland: he said it will hurt the BBC per se. It is not spun that way, of course. But I think he is claiming that the loss of Scottish license fees means that the whole of the BBC will struggle financially. And money is all he claims to understand. He is an archetypal neoliberal cynic who did more damage to the BBC than any other single individual. Famously, he does not speak english either, which is a curious deficiency in a broadcasting chief

  207. Will Podmore says:

    So some separatists are now preparing for their forthcoming defeat by claiming that the vote will be rigged! The people will be voting, not the papers they read or the news they watch. papers don’t have votes, the BBC doesn’t have a vote. Blaming the media is to show contempt for the voters. You may not like the way they vote but you will have to accept it.
    After the referendum, Scottish nationalism will be a busted flush, and we can get back to class politics, instead of the present divisiveness, which only plays into the Coalition’s hands. Cameron must be laughing all the way to his bank as you attack your fellow-workers who are unionist, and they attack you. False flags indeed.

  208. Fiona says:

    @ Will Podmore

    So you think that vote rigging is not possible? Why do you think that?

  209. Indy_Scot says:

    Votes have been rigged in the past and the media is biased in favour of the union. Do you not know anything.

  210. iconofwaste says:

    Westminster = Ramsay Snow
    Reek = Unionists

    justsayinisall

  211. silver19 says:

    @Indy_Scot

    By there is an article published today in Autoexpress online that the Scottish Government are considering a fuel duty regulator if there is a Yes vote in September and this will bring down fuel prices. Also if there is a Yes vote there will be introduction of the Graduated Driver Licensing which will help reduce the crash rate for new and young drivers and which can also lower insurance premiums.

    Article here:- http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/88306/scottish-independence-cheaper-fuel-prices-for-scotland

    As usual ignore the comments.

  212. Jack Murphy says:

    1PM TODAY. Referendum TV Live.
    Lesley Riddoch chats to Duncan Hothersall,Labour activist and blogger,Toni Giugliano,Yes Scotland,Patrick Harvie MSP,Scottish Green Party and others.
    1pm-2pm.
    http://www.referendumtv.net/referendum-tv-live-2008/

  213. bald eagle says:

    troll do not feed

    do not pat trolls head

  214. Maid_in_Scotland says:

    Will Podmore – ‘… and we can get back to ??class politics??’ So that’s what I’ve been enjoying for the past several decades. I wondered, right enough.

  215. chalks says:

    One issue that concerns me with the RIC canvassing, are all these people registered to vote?

  216. liz says:

    @goldenayr – Thanks for that but when I checked the Yes website for events, I could only find 5 events within 25 miles eg a meeting with Nicola Surgeon on Monday in Largs.

    I would have hoped for a major push from them.

  217. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    A Stevie Boy at 10.26

    The odds are ridiculous. Apparently lots of money going on in England is distorting the odds ( I wonder why). The £400,000 that the press reported was put on NO by a punter in Glasgow (and two other very large bets) was in actual fact put on in Surrey.
    Almost all bets in Scotland are on YES – 100% in some places
    The upshot is that we are getting a ridiculous opportunity to bet at huge odds for YES.

    Get on

  218. Jimmy the Pict says:

    @chakra
    I believe that RIC canvassers have voted registration packs with them and ask if they are all registered to vote.

  219. Jimmy the Pict says:

    Edit. Voter not voted

  220. crazycat says:

    @ chalks

    The RIC canvasses I have participated in use the electoral roll to mark off the canvass returns; ie all those people are on the register. Anyone who answers the door but is not the named person is asked if they are registered and given a form if they are not. I assume other groups of canvassers do something similar.

    @ Nana Smith

    re large numbers of people queuing to register – I don’t know about Glasgow, but in the two Ayrshire shops where I volunteer there is a steady stream of requests for forms, mostly from young men, and they all sound local!

  221. Jim says:

    @
    Bugger (the Panda)
    @kendomacaroonbar and @Jim

    How are we going to get these people out and down to the polling stations.

    That could be THE deciding factor.
    __________________
    These are the so-called lost voters who feel so marginalised they did not see the point in voting in a general election because they think nothing would change, the Tories will get elected anyway, etc.
    Rightly or wrongly they didn’t vote but as has been said, this is an opportunity of a lifetime where your vote does matter in this referendum and does matter come elections to the Scottish parliament because you will get the Government you vote for not one elected on the rUK vote which obviously we cannot compete with.
    This is why I think these non/lost voters will be out in their droves come the 18th because they will want to grab this chance to take matters into their own hands as to what their country should aspire to and vote accordingly.

  222. MochaChoca says:

    Possibly for the first time a comment of mine in the Scotsman has more thumbs up than down…

    So, has the rather pleasant 199 celebs “Let’s stay together” tactic been ditched and replaced with the very tempting “Thinking of leaving? If you do I’ll ruin you” invite.

  223. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Fuel regulator would be very welcome for the Highlands and Islands. I have always thought it was highly ironic and unjust that you can see the Beatrice oil rigs from Sutherland but they pay the highest fuel costs in the country.

    Another benefit of Indy!
    So many – losing track of them all.

  224. liz says:

    @goldenayr – apologies – must have put in the wrong info – there are 195 events near me.

  225. chalks says:

    Thanks folks…

    Premier Oil are due to start drilling in the Sea Lion field in the Falkland Islands very soon….btw….so Westminster might have that going for it LOL

  226. Ken500 says:

    Obama is even more right wing than the right wing in the UK. Just another right wing banking stooge.Contributes to US military charities because their service keeps Obama in his privilege position to the abuse of privilege and power. Obama killing and maiming the world over. Israel should have been sanctioned years ago. Protected by the US State.

  227. Ken500 says:

    Premier Oil have been raking in shareholder monies for years on the prediction of Oil around the Falklands. Fools and their money.

  228. Marco McGinty says:

    A piece just shown on the BBC News channel, filmed live from Peebles, featuring two locals, a Rachael Hamilton on the no side of the argument, and a Nigel Mace on the Yes side. Many positives from the Yes bloke, much negativity from the no lady (no surprise there!). But there was a cracker incident, when a question was put to the no woman, based on the positives of successive Scottish governments. Her answer was thus;

    “Well, we have a very strong relationship with the union, and I think we’ve seen massive benefits from being part of the UK as a whole, I mean for example, ehm, theeeee, the, the question at the moment about the, the currency is a, is a big issue, I think that we could come across big problems, em, within our businesses, if, if, em, Alex Salmond does get the pound. He, however will not get the pound, because he hasn’t got the backing of the treasury, or the Bank of England, and it’s entirely possible that that will never happen.”

    Mr Mace quickly replied with more positivity, and completely debunked everything that she had said, but if we return to her statement, it comes as no surprise to learn that she could not think of a single benefit of the union, and instead resorted to the lies and scaremongering that has been the mainstay of the no campaign.

    The final question of the piece, which was only offered to Rachael, went like this;

    Reporter: Just a final thought, do you, do you think this is a divisive campaign?
    Rachael: Well, in, in terms of if, if you mean it’s divisive in a, in a, an electioneering, ehm, manner, then, ehm, it, it could be, yes, and eh, it could be that Alex Salmond is really just looking for, for more votes.

    So the sum and total of her comments centred on lies, scaremongering and fear, and don’t forget that vile, nasty NAZI Alex Salmond trying to win votes. Christ, the man will stop at nothing to win this referendum.

  229. Charles Docherty says:

    They love us so much that they do not want rUK government to assist the newly independent Scotland gain access to the EU nor NATO. Mind you maybe they only asked the Little Englanders who want nothing to do with the EU and their aim was to protect Scotland from that evil organisation. No, I don’t think that either.

  230. Thepnr says:

    Nana Smith’s link above takes you to an article by Alex Johnstone MSP where he states:

    “First we were told that, if we reject separation, our NHS will be privatised. Then we hear that if we stay with the United Kingdom, free education will no longer be available to our young people. In fact, both these responsibilities were devolved in 1999 and are run by the Nationalists already using the healthy funding stream guaranteed to them through the Barnett formula which guarantees the proportion of UK Government spending which will come to Scotland.

    Then however, they tell us that, if we reject separation, the Barnett formula will be abolished. They conveniently forget that, the only people in this debate who are proposing the end of the Barnett formula are the Nationalists.

    Probably then this is a good time to refresh your memory of just who has said what about scrapping the Barnett formula.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-barnett-future/

  231. Tam Jardine says:

    Positive headline from a Yes point of view – pretty hellish reading if you are a solid No.

    Strangest thing for me is the lack of convincing going on by BT supporters – I can honestly say I have not had a single soul approach me to try and persuade me to vote no. Not in the pub, not round my door, not over the phone or in the street. They must be relying on their vote holding up and the media.

    They don’t deserve to win this – and it’s too late to start trying to persuade people.

  232. Morag says:

    That Peebles shower is my local Yes group, and Nigel is absolutely ace. He sometimes speaks at Yes meetings and I’m absolutely in awe. I was confident he’d handle that interview well.

  233. Morag says:

    Oh, and it’s Professor Mace, I think.

  234. doorstepper says:

    It shows that Alistair Darling was right when he said ‘No’ isn’t a vote for ‘no change’.

  235. K1 says:

    Ladbrokes over 55% yes, back to 7/1 today…it was 5/1 last week, dems good odds folks!

  236. Margaret Curran just on BBC 1 pm news saying a yes vote will cause serious problems over what programmes we watch and how the standard will be lower plus job losses.
    If the BT think this is a vote winner I can tell them right now, this Scotsman will be glad to see the back of the BBC and save £144 per year for a bias establishment supporting propaganda machine.
    Alex Salmond on saying Scotland pays £300 million in TV licence fees but gets only a fraction of that money spent on Scotland. He went on with the money thawe don’t get back on a Scottish TV service we will be able to produce better TV and create more jobs.

    Makes sense to me.

  237. Gary says:

    After the love, the hate. The politicians have lied for years and been believed. The ONE question the public have never asked is WHY? Why give Scots more? Why keep them? Why worry if they leave?

  238. YESGUY says:

    The divide and conquer tactics are poor choices for the NT team.

    Anyone who knows the people of these isles are stubborn and don’t take kindly to threats. Scot, English,Irish or Welsh hate bullies.

    The threats are a clever deflection away from the main vote swingers, NHS and welfare. Most have turned off regarding the currency and the NT team will do anything to deflect from issues they cannot control.

    Thus more scares to give them time to find something else to deflect from the real issues.

    Scaring pensioners, threatening All Scots (including the NO voters) with consequences for daring to vote. The personal attacks on A. Salmond and the ability to ignore the welfare cuts, food banks and unemployment of shipbuilders and the like.

    Ignoring the corruption of Westminster with expenses, peodophilia, Selling off assets (Royal Mail) to friends on the cheap and the push for more wars.

    Westminster is a cesspit and they’re time is coming. Scottish Labour are a fucking disgrace to allow their members to lie and scare the people they are there to protect.

    We will win this referendum and they know it. Soon they will turn on each other , like the rats they are.

    I pity the rUK afterwards. Scotland will thrive . rUk must change or they are doomed.

    Freedom and a stop to all the lies and fears can be given with a simple X in the YES box folks.

    Cross the YES X box .

    “just like that”

  239. Will Podmore says:

    YESGUY rightly deplores ‘divide and conquer tactics’. Why do you think Cameron launched this referendum? Yes, to divide and conquer the British working class. To split Scottish workers on spurious national lines, to set worker (unionist) against worker (anti-unionist), to get workers fighting each other rather then fighting the employing class. Nationalism is a false flag setting Scots workers against English workers.

  240. brightsparking says:

    Here’s another chance to turn up and question Alistair Carmichael in Perth on the 2nd of Sept, John Swinney and John Curtis also on the platform. Tickets are free.

    I have my questions at the ready….

    http://www.horsecross.co.uk/whats-on/all/2014-09/2014-09-02

  241. Tom Foyle says:

    For sale – unused plasters and bandages, will fit most feet. Perfect for protecting open bullet wounds.

  242. Fiona says:

    @ Will Podmore

    Do you honestly believe that those of us who are lifelong socialists have not met those arguments before? Have not had a difficult journey to support for independence on just such a traditional internationalist analysis?

    Do you honestly not understand that your analysis bears no relation to the reality we are living, any more? Are you so lost to your own direct experience that you do not recognise that there is NO party nor movement which embraces that analysis? That the labour party has embraced neoliberalism in toto and has no interest in “fighting the employing class”? They ARE the employing class or their lackeys.

    We need to rebuild the belief that there is an alternative: an understanding that there is no third way and we are not all in it together. The Labour party as you imagine does not exist: but it can. Just not in the union

    Wake up! Smell the coffee

  243. YESGUY says:

    thank you Fiona

    Will is our little troll who likes to break up arguments for nitty wee things.

    Don’t feed him anymore. When we ignore them they usually go away.

  244. Fiona says:

    Sorry, YESGUY

    Didn’t see that as trolling because it is a sincerely misguided position which I held for a long time myself. Not any more. Doesn’t make the person propounding it a troll: though he is definitely living in a tribal never never land where such mythical beings also exist 😉

  245. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fiona says: 20 August, 2014 at 3:16 pm:

    “Didn’t see that as trolling because it is a sincerely misguided position which I held for a long time myself.”

    Sorry Lassie, but you are wrong. If you had ever engaged with Podmore in any form of debate you would find it a total waste of your time but productive to his as he will have prevented your efforts elsewhere.

  246. Liz says:

    If millions leave Scotland then the country would be very nearly empty!!!

  247. Yvonne says:

    I’ve read a lot of the comments on here and I’m afraid the press seems to be stirring up problems. I’m English, boo I know, but I lived in Scotland and still come back as often as I can, but I have to tell you the everyday, non Times, Guardian etc reading alleged middle England population don’t care whether you vote yes or no. If you want to go do so, if you want to stay that’s fine. So please don’t be fooled into voting one way of the other because of the lies the press are feeding you about what the general English population feel coz we aren’t bothered either way.

  248. JWil says:

    They were talking on TV recently about the high number of postal votes requested for the independence referendum and the possibility of vote rigging. Apparently all previous cases of vote rigging happened down south by Labour Party supporters. No mention of the disappearance of the by-election results from the Sheriff’s office at Glenrothes. Of course that was nothing to do with vote rigging. Wasn’t it?

  249. muttley79 says:

    @Will Podmore

    After the referendum, Scottish nationalism will be a busted flush, and we can get back to class politics, instead of the present divisiveness, which only plays into the Coalition’s hands. Cameron must be laughing all the way to his bank as you attack your fellow-workers who are unionist, and they attack you. False flags indeed.

    Will, what have you been smoking? The idea that Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Rachel Reeves etc are class warriors is laughable. They are Tory lite, and have been for well over 20 years.

  250. Quite simply if the people of Scotland vote no then they deserve to be hammered by Westminster.

    Just as we here in Wales deserve all we get too.

    This must be that ‘better together’ concept the UKOKs talk about.

  251. Rock says:

    Robert Louis,

    “Seriously, what has become of the Labour party”

    It was taken over by the Tory party but allowed to use its name for a few years more, mainly to mislead the people.

    Like Dunfermline Building Society was taken over by Nationwide Building Society (thanks to Gordon Brown). It was allowed to keep its name for a few years.

    The Labour party remains the Labour party IN NAME ONLY.

  252. Rock says:

    Not to forget that the Scots, once well known and well liked throughout the world, will become the laughing stock of the world if they we No.

    Can you imagine how it will feel telling some independent ‘foreigner’: ‘I am Scottish’? ‘North British’ will suddenly not sound embarassing at all.

  253. Rock says:

    Fireproofjim,

    “Don’t blame the average Englishman for this. For years the Daily Mail and the rest of the Media in England have been pumping out a relentless stream of anti-Scottish propaganda.”

    Agree totally.

    From what they have been told, Scots get free prescriptions and tuition fees from English taxpayers’ money while they themselves don’t. Now the ungrateful Scots want to be independent. Good riddance is therefore a logical conclusion.

    And if they vote No, there should not be any special rules or extra funding for them. Again a logical conclusion.

    And their MPs should not interfere in our affairs as ours don’t in theirs. Again a logical conclusion.

    Based on the (false) information they have been given, the English have come to logical conclusions.

    Don’t blame the English, blame the British establishment for deliberately creating anti-Scottish sentiment among the English and trying to create anti-English sentiment among the Scots.

    ‘Divide and Rule’.

    Fireproofjim,

    “Don’t blame the average Englishman for this. For years the Daily Mail and the rest of the Media in England have been pumping out a relentless stream of anti-Scottish propaganda.”

    Agree totally.

    From what they have been told, Scots get free prescriptions and tuition fees from English taxpayers’ money. Now the ungrateful Scots want to be independent. Good riddance is therefore a logical conclusion.

    And if they vote No, there should not be any special rules or extra funding for them. Again a logical conclusion.

    And their MPs should not interfere in our affairs as ours don’t in theirs. Again a logical conclusion.

    Based on the (false) information they have been, the English have come to logical conclusions.

    Luckily, most Yes voting Scots are very well informed and will not fall into the trap.

    The whole thing only confuses No voting Scots even more.

  254. El Shando says:

    It’s not really surprising that increased Scottish nationalism might engender feelings of increased nationalism south of the border. This ‘Future of England’ survey polled a few hundred English folk who, surprise surprise, felt Scotland’s public spending should be in line with the UK average. How much these people know about economics is unclear, or whether they knew that London’s public spending is also higher than average. Woopie-f*cking-do. All three main parties have pledged to keep the Barnett formula going, and it’s highly unlikely that economic policy is going to be changed as a result of a poll of a few disgruntled folk, so now which side is using fear and negativity?

  255. Croompenstein says:

    El Shando says

    All three main parties have pledged to keep the Barnett formula going

    Pledges like this El Shando…

    http://tinyurl.com/34dhcry

  256. Jim Hagart says:

    I have not read either of the newspapers whose front pages were used as illustration but I did read the Independent. I also looked at their website where their report included an interesting video clip.

    Alex Salmond was shown making a statement that the campaign for independence was bigger than him, the SNP, or even the Yes campaign. Fair enough. It probably was then counterbalanced by imagery of No campaigners at work.

    After that the report deteriorated presenting the usual litany of negative/worrying statements implying too wee,etc about currency, oil,etc without any counterbalancing reports.

    It also included concerns about what might happen to our economy and its impact on our children and grandchildren 50 and 100 years hence. This statement came from Simon Clark of the School of Economics at Edinburgh University.

    It makes me wonder how on earth he could make that statement with a straight face. What individual at the end of the first world war could have had the slightest notion of what would happen in the subsequent century?

    Additionally, if he spoke as an economist I note that they find it difficult to predict what will happen a few years down the road so why give credence to suggestions that worrying about what will happen over the next century is something voters should consider, especially as the implication was that remaining in a Union with England et al will mean Scots will have less to worry about in 2114.

    The entire clip clearly was biased whilst seeming to offer the pretence of objectivity, arrant nonsense calculated to reassure voters without a clue. I suggest Independent readers (and reporters )look at C’monScotland.org and Wings over Scotland and the links provided on the latter site in order to get a better understanding of the issues.

  257. william young says:

    I am amazed, nay, astonished, that others on this site have yet to comment on the recent news(the MSM don’t do it ) that the amount of Peers, baronesses,Lords has increased greatly since the Tory govt. has mentioned a revamp of this sorry system. if you have 6m pounds to spare, give it to thre tories and you will get a seat in the Lords!. furthermore, if you are a washed up tory/lib.dem/lab mp, or someone that has done “tireless work ” for them, you might get a peerage too. this whole unelected system is a bloody sham ,and its a main reason for me voting YES. let’s be shot of them, forever! god bless Scotland.

  258. Andy says:

    @Jim Hagart – one fifth of an independent Scotland’s economy will be oil based. Any economist worth his salt will pose the question – “what will replace it when it starts to decline?” Given that is a question that my childrens’ generation might face, I don’t have a problem with that.

    These pages are full of folk who use here-today-gone-tomorrow issues such as the unlikely event of Boris Johnston ever being UK Prime Minister as a reason to vote Yes. Is a short term worry like that more decisive than a longer term issue such as the economy in 50 years?

  259. fred blogger says:

    Andy
    so what’s your WM political party plan B then, i’d really like to hear it!

  260. Andy says:

    @Fred Blogger – oil and gas reserves produce 1.7% of the UK’s tax revenues. There are any number of sectors that could make that up in 50 years time.

  261. boris says:

    NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen – Former Prime Minister of Denmark – A brief outline of the man and his country

    Anders Fogh Rasmussen, former Prime Minister of Denmark, (a NON-NUCLEAR country of identical population size as Scotland) is more right wing than George Bush Jnr. He won a second term in office due to his and Denmark’s firm support, (rarely the case of european countries nowaday’s) for all that is the policy of the USA.

    Mikkel Vedby Rasmussen, a political scientist at the University of Copenhagen, (not related to the prime minister) said, “. We actually trust the U.S. to do the right thing, and therefore if the U.S. president says it’s necessary to do something we support it.

    A man in the street said, “Yes, it’s true, there are good feelings about America here. A lot of good things come from America.”

    With their country occupied by the Nazis during World War II, threatened by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and thriving today in a free-trading global economy, the Danes are far more keen than many continental Europeans on a close friendship with the United States.

    Niels Helveg Petersen, a former foreign minister and center-left member of parliament said, “History has taught Danes that America will look out for them better than the great powers of Europe”.

    Denmark even commemorates America’s Independence Day, in the northern town of Rebild on the fourth of July annually for nearly a century.

    “Historically, Denmark feels very attached to American values,” said Jacob Nielsen, political editor for the Copenhagen daily Politiken. He also noted that Denmark has close ties with its former colony on the North American island of Greenland, home to an important U.S. air base. He went on, “Denmark is a small country,” and just the idea of the American president dropping by here as the only stop before he goes to the G-8 summit confirms the government’s line that their foreign policy is giving Denmark a say in international politics.”

    Summary

    In his role as, “NATO Secretary General” his aggressive approach to negotiations with Russia in regard to the Ulraine is a cause of concern to President Obama and other NATO members, who would prefer a more conciliatory dialogue. Hope is on the horizon however, in the form of former Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg of Norway who will lead NATO starting on 1 Oct.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scottish-independence-country-will-have-reapply-nato-says-general-secretary-1461856

  262. Will Podmore says:

    Fiona writes, quite accurately, that “the labour party has embraced neoliberalism in toto and has no interest in ‘fighting the employing class’.” I completely agree. Why does she think I wouldn’t? Why does she imagine that I have any faith in the Labour Party?
    She ends by writing, “The Labour party as you imagine does not exist: but it can.” No, I do not see it as anything other than it is, but it appears that she imagines it can be something quite different from what it obviously is and always will be.
    muttley79 writes, “The idea that Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Rachel Reeves etc are class warriors is laughable. They are Tory lite, and have been for well over 20 years.” Why does muttley assume I think any different? In fact, I think the Labour party has always, from its birth, been in bed with the capitalist class.
    Why can’t you get over your obsession with the Labour Party? I know I have! To identify Labour with our trade unions, or with the working class, is to misrepresent everything.

  263. Jonathan says:

    What a load of rubbish!

    Do not believe with what you read in the papers!

    To be honest most people South of the border are not fussed about whether you vote yes or no as they respect the Scots right to decide on their independence (personally though I want you to stay part of the union as I do believe we are stronger together and also I love Scotland and it’s fine people!).

    Like almost everyone else in the world most are just trying to get by…earning a living, making sure they have a roof over their heads and enough for their families.

    Good luck to you (wish we had some politicians in the rest of the country who care as much about the UK a some of the the SNP politicians care about Scotland) but please don’t go!



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