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Going down a bad road

Posted on September 27, 2019 by

You now have less than 24 hours left to secure your copy of our intermittent cartoonist Mr Cairns’ latest beautifully-crafted volume of biting political satire featuring a cute lion. (No, not the one pictured below.)

For the love of God please don’t upset him or we’ll get more like this.

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    1. 27 09 19 12:56

      Going down a bad road | speymouth

    2. 30 09 19 06:15

      Going down a bad road – politics-99.com

    55 to “Going down a bad road”

    1. Ruglonian says:

      You should have linked to the replacement toon you did that time, just incase folk don’t realise what we’d be stuck with without Chris – we still have a great laugh at that effort 😀

    2. Scott Murray says:

      yellow brick hammer….nothing is real….let me take you down…..

    3. Dave Smyth says:

      Brilliant.

    4. Den Cairns says:

      Really enjoyed that highly talented Namesake interview and a great wee vid tae boot. However, I wait eagerly with the Rev’s take on BoJo’s latest outburst on Caesar! and her crappy wee Cooncil.

    5. Den Cairns says:

      Caesar typo, should have been Caesar! ;o)

    6. Den Cairns says:

      I give up!!

    7. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      Nice to see Owen Farrell getting a dose of his own medicine.

      The US player received an immediate Red Card but no matter how many times Farrell, has done the same he hasn’t even received so much as a Yellow Card.

    8. gus1940 says:

      Unless I have missed it – since Saint Ruth and Fluffy received the Tory Bullet I have not seen either of them in their respective parliaments’ debating chambers.

    9. Doug Bryce says:

      Can explain why I comment on this BBC story
      “SNP hints at backing short-term Corbyn government”
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49850484

      But not this one
      “Boris Johnson vows to compensate for ‘SNP inadequacies'”
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49844298

      UK is becoming a fascist state. Unelected PM, from party Scotland didnt elect, vowing to take action on devolve issues over which he no power. BBC blindly report it and dont allow comments.

    10. Colin Alexander says:

      I wish I could wake up and discover it had all been a bad dream.

    11. Robert Peffers says:

      @Den Cairns says: 27 September, 2019 at 12:47 pm:

      ” … I give up!!”.”

      And so you should, for I’m almost certain that I am not the only Winger who, in the p0ast, has explained to you that certain words are on Stu’s banned list for some reason or other.

      Stu deals with this by substituting another apparently random word for that which Stu doesn’t like.

    12. Colin Alexander says:

      https://peterabell.scot/2019/09/27/explanations-required/

      “By committing to the Section 30 process, Nicola Sturgeon has ‘invited in’ the very forces which she acknowledges as being a potentially serious threat to the fairness and democratic validity of the referendum”.

    13. Stuart MacKay says:

      This is a rather interesting:

      https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-supreme-court-judgment-and-its.html

      Did you read the part about how grateful the Remainers are about Scotland (and it’s courts) being a valuable and valued part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. No, neither did I. Seems it was all down to Gina Miller.

    14. Dr Jim says:

      So tediously slow

    15. Robert Peffers says:

      @Doug Bryce says: 27 September, 2019 at 1:37 pm:

      ” … UK is becoming a fascist state. Unelected PM, from party Scotland didnt elect, vowing to take action on devolve issues over which he no power. BBC blindly report it and dont allow comments.”

      If you haven’t already sussed out what is happening now it that it has reached the point where the BBC, and the rest of the Westminster controlled media, have got enough rope as to hang themselves with it. The SNP wisely just let them get on with what the media was doing until it has become apparent to anyone with a brain what the media is up to and now things have backfired upon the media.

      Hence the falling circulation of the dead tree press and the falling number of TV licences in Scotland. Quite simply they have overdone the propaganda and more and more people in Scotland can see it for themselves.

    16. admiral says:

      Please God, let Scots wake up from this nightmare and take control of their lives, before it’s too late.

    17. Fabby Burns says:

      We thought Brexit was bad, a disrespected ‘referendum’ then along came Boris!
      It really is time for Scotland to decide its own destiny.

    18. heraldnomore says:

      Interesting poll Stu

    19. twathater says:

      @ Stuart MacKay 2.23pm I read that link you posted and wrote a long post re the involvement of the Scottish SC , Joanna Cherry , Jolyan Maugham and others and commented that their involvement should not have been expunged or ignored , I then tried to post it and it disappeared ,I tried page back and it had still disappeared ggggrrrr

    20. Balaaargh says:

      I want to buy the book with the T-shirt but the biggest size is only XL. 🙁

    21. Stuart MacKay says:

      @twathater

      I always make a copy before I click anything. It’s saved me more than once.

      It’s rather disturbing that the highest court in one of the member countries of the United Kingdom triggers the reinstatement of Parliament and does not get any credit.

      I know this just going over the same theme over and over again but with respect to English politics, Scotland is simply an irrelevance. Better to leave them to it.

    22. kapelmeister says:

      Labour’s Ian Smart tweets that a government with Major as PM, Heseltine as deputy PM and Ken Clarke as Chancellor would get his vote.

      Funny how Britnats, whatever their stripe or hue, can only wallow in nostalgia.

    23. Hamish100 says:

      Clever move by the FM to float the idea of a temporary PM Corbyn

      The Lib dems now need to choose whether to keep Johnson and the Tories in power or to eat humble pie. Tories online getting edgy.

      Labour now have a hard time to criticize the SNP (they will still try)

      FM 3-0 UP

    24. Cubby says:

      The use of the word surrender.

      In Scotland we are well used to it being used by Britnat politicians, the Orange Order and at Ibrox but in Scotland it usually has the word NO in front of it.

    25. Brian Powell says:

      Holy shit, Ok I’m giving him money.

    26. PacMan says:

      Stuart MacKay says: 27 September, 2019 at 4:19 pm

      It’s rather disturbing that the highest court in one of the member countries of the United Kingdom triggers the reinstatement of Parliament and does not get any credit.

      If the truth was to get out, Brexit would be dumped and UKexit would be in full swing south of the border.

    27. cynicalHighlander says:

      Only £60.00 to go

    28. Dr Jim says:

      So according to Michael Russell giving evidence in committee the Independence referendum *will be* not can be, as early as April 2014 or as late as September 2014 as the Scottish government has a mandate to do it and will do it

      During the session Michael Russell pointed out that as far as the Electoral commission is concerned the question has been tested agreed and has and is currently been used more than 56 times since 2014 so he is not minded to change that bearing in mind that politicians are elected to decide these things whereas the electoral commission is not, so advice is always welcome but in this instance the commission already tested and agreed the question in 2012 unequivocally and the circumstances around the referendum may have changed but the effect of the result remains the same

      Mr Russell reminded Murdo Fraser of his ridiculous 75% majority backed up by Adam Tomkins and Mr Fraser said he was (ahem) only joking

      Alex Rowley asked if the question asked would include Independence within the EU because that might mean a different question and Mr Russell said no

      So outside the Holyrood parliament the opposition are making all the noises about not allowing any referendum but inside the parliament they’ve accepted that it’s happening and are actively engaged in discussing its workings

      I think Ruth Davidson and Jackson Carlaw’s old wedded to England Tory party might be about to make way for Adam Tomkins and Murdo Frasers new Scotland Tory party, of course folk will still have to vote for them before they ever get the chance to do it and they haven’t had a lot of success with that so far

    29. Dr Jim says:

      Sorry line two and three should read 2020 not 2014

    30. Doug says:

      Cheeky new intervention by Nicola Sturgeon. Our FM fair gets the English nationalists’ knickers in a twist. Even when she’s being calm and considerate. [Especially so?]

      Rabid English nationalism will bring about the end of the so-called united kingdom.

    31. Cubby says:

      The BBC what a disgraceful organisation. It upholds a complaint against Naga Munchetty for calling out Trumps racist comment but has, I very much doubt, ever upheld a complaint against the BBC for all its anti Scotland propaganda.

      Racism and racist comments are never acceptable and it doesn’t matter the source of them – the President of USA or an independence supporter.

      The BBC an absolutely disgusting organisation.

    32. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dr Jim @1745 do you have a link?

    33. Cubby says:

      As I have said many times Sturgeon has always said she would prefer a sec 30. NOT MUST.

      No one has ever produced any evidence she ever said MUST have a sec 30. Colin Alexander tried to kid on he had evidence but he didn’t. Just a shit stirrer as usual.

    34. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Lenny Hartley says:
      27 September, 2019 at 6:33 pm

      Dr Jim @1745

      That is an awkward time lol

    35. Lenny Hartley says:

      Cynicalhighlander 1745 a guid time 1746 a bad time.
      Off to hear wee ginger dug talk about the Gaelic.
      North Ayrshire Council putting their hands in their pockets for a good reason for once.

    36. Robert Peffers says:

      @Stuart MacKay says:27 September, 2019 at 4:19 pm

      ” … It’s rather disturbing that the highest court in one of the member countries of the United Kingdom triggers the reinstatement of Parliament and does not get any credit.”

      Now I probably am very wrong about this, Stuart, but I have the feeling that it may not be a bad thing for the MSM and broadcasters in particular to neglect to mention what the Inner Court of Session has just done.

      I get the feeling Scotland’s highest court has just been flexing its muscles prior to doing something much more breath taking. I’ve been studying this United Kingdom legality thing since I was a schoolboy and way back then I had befriended an old, semi-retired KC, (Kings Council way back then).

      The old guy was in no doubt what the situation was. He was of the opinion that the Way Westminster was running the United Kingdom was very much illegal. Now I’m talking 70 odd years ago and I had just made it to my teens so things were a bit different in relation to Westminster and we were hardly out of WWII so Scottish attitudes in regards to the union were rather different then.

      Anyway I have a very good memory and I already had a great interest in Scottish/English History including political history. Anyway the old guy sort of put the two views, history and politics together for me and pointed me at the places I could get historical information that did not come curtesy of the school’s history curriculum. However it turned out my History teacher was a total gem and one of the two best teachers I ever knew, (the other was her brother).

      To cut a long story short I knew from I was 11 how Scotland had been forced/conned into becoming what was supposed to be a fully equally sovereign partner kingdom but never being actually treated as was her due and I knew why. Little, except Devolution and EVEL has changed since then. That is except for the rise in support for the SNP.

      So here’s the thing. I am in absolutely no doubt that Scotland has an unshakable right to be a fully equally sovereign partner in the Union and more so Scotland has a legally sound case to either reclaim her sovereign right or – here is the Biggy – her right to legally end the union.

      Which I feel is where Joanna Cherry and the faction down at Westminster are heading as we speak. So maybe it is for the best that Westminster and its tame propaganda wing don’t quite get the way things are, perhaps, headed.

      I’ve watched both Alex Salmond and now Nicola Sturgeon gaining friends and respect across the World and in the EU. I regularly look in upon the goings on at the EU parliament and I most decidedly detect a great change in attitude towards Scotland almost right across the World and even in the international courts including the European Court of Justice. Maybe the drive for independence is not via Westminster but via the courts.

    37. Collin Alexander says:

      Cubby

      “His comments were put to the First Minister yesterday who said the legal basis for any future referendum should be “the same” as for the 2014 – where the Edinburgh agreement struck between the Scottish and UK government set out the conditions for a legally binding ballot.

      Asked by reporters if it was a possibility she could hold a Catalan style referendum without the permission of Westminster, she said: “No, I am not open to that possibility.”

      She said: “My view is clear and always has been clear. The legal basis of any future independence referendum should be the same as the referendum in 2014, which is the transfer of power under a section 30 order.

      “Of course the only reason we’re talking about this is because of the anti-democratic stance of the Conservatives, who I think are running so scared of the will of the Scottish people on independence.

      “They refuse to acknowledge the democratic mandate that the Scottish government has.”

    38. Stuart MacKay says:

      @Robert Peffers

      That would certainly be an interesting turn of events – the union getting it with both barrels.

      I do worry that playing by the rules is not going to get very far however. It remains to be seen what would happen if, once Brexit really starts to bites, Holyrood was suspended for the sake stability. What recourse would there be? The gloves are somewhat off with the current minority government. I don’t think they’d have much compunction about forcing us to “stay”. Having friends around the world is all very well but it’s not clear whether they’d be inclined to come to Scotland’s aid if needed.

    39. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      OK, I was gonna add £25 to the Chris Cairns/Greg Moodie fundraiser.

      BUT…

      It would accept neither Scotland, UK nor U.K. as my country.

      It would not accept Dundee as the state and it couldn’t be left blank. (Dundee is a County of a City.)

      So, I admit defeat. He’s over the target onnyhoo.

      I’ll just browse WOS Saturday posts to see the old cartoons…

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      How about supporting this?

      “£4,491 raised of £12,500 target from 207 donors.

      Back in 2014 we brought in the first ever mass produced Yes Flags.
      It wasn’t easy, At the time it was the biggest single import we’d done and it was hit by snags , and delays, and initial doubts from donors.
      But eventually, with help along the way, we succeeded and provided #Indyref1 with a great shot in the arm at a crucial period. This time around we’re making another 6000 of the original Yes Saltires, 3000 EU Saltires, 1500 Yes Saltire Car Flags, and 1500 sets of Yes Saltire car wing mirror covers**.”

      More info at this link:-

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes

    41. Keith fae Leith says:

      Re-watching the West Wing for the upteenth time and in the episode “Mandatory Minimums” the speech at the start by Pres Bartlet rings true to our movement, in my mind at least.

      “This moment reminds me of the tale of 2 Irish lads who’s journey was blocked by a wall, seemingly too tall to overcome, they tossed their caps over the wall, they had no choice but to follow”

      “We’ve gotta have term limits, because voters can’t be trusted to recognise corruption, oh, btw, when the playing field is level and the process is fair and open, we do have term limits, they’re called elections”

      We, the Sovereign people, vote for parties that represent our interests and include several (3? 4?) mandates to ask the electorate our views.

      Q: If the process is fair & open, the playing field level, then elections are all we require?

      If not, given a wall that is seemingly too high to get over (UK Gov intransigence) then we need to throw our caps over the wall (The legal route).

      Chinese proverbs aside, we do live in interesting times.

      Apologies for any mixed metaphors. All quoted text reserved to Aaron Sorkin (1 of the best script writers in modern times IMO)

    42. Iain mhor says:

      So that’s what he looks like!
      I spent most if that fascinating video trying to recall what I thought he looked like, suddenly “Christ! There’s two of them!” Great stuff 😀

    43. Meindevon says:

      Wow. Daily Wail readers in England going ballistic re the downright disgusting, evil, nasty etc, etc.. interference from those Jocks.

      Hilarious.

    44. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Cubby

      The BBC has a sacred duty to police their employees, to make sure they do not either by accident or design. let slip a personal opinion that could sully the corporations’ unimpeachable record for impartiality.

      Well, that’s their story … and they’re sticking to it.

    45. Sarah says:

      @BDTT 7.43: what is going to happen if the Flags fundraiser stays at circa £4,500 when the target is £12,500? Is Mark liable for the full sum or will he just have to cancel the order? It is a shame after the success the last time when he got flags for us all.

    46. Phronesis says:

      The PM is an enthusiast of metaphoric expression- a recognised rhetorical device, emotionally persuasive in hate speech, racist and stigmatising discourse. It is extremely effective in normalising dangerous figures of speech and he should know having used it in that context quite a bit.

      He seems particularly fond of metaphors of the body politic;
      ‘as a mere Mayor of London, as a mere toenail in the body politic, it may be difficult to have a referendum [on the EU Lisbon Treaty]’
      (BBC Newsnight, 5 October 2009).

      ‘There is a large part of me that does not want to read another sentence about this lately exploded pustule on the posterior of the British body politic’
      (The Daily Telegraph, 13 April 2009 ).

      Continuing to overly use metaphoric expression to denote his Churchillian ‘no surrender’ attributes is a good distraction at a time of political anarchy in a failing political institution from his government’s less than stellar economic acumen and fiscal prudence (which is absolutely nothing to do with the EU).
      – There is no possibility that the UK govt will meet its commitment to keep borrowing below 2% of national income in 20/21 or balance the budget
      – Office of Budget Responsibility forecasts a deficit of £21.2 billion , 1.3% of national income.
      – The UK govt will need to borrow £50-60 billion in 20/21 – above the £44billion limit of 2% national income borrowing.
      https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/publicsectorfinancesukaugust2019

      Scotland is suffering greatly from an ingrown toenail that is a constant source of pain and toxicity. The remedy is quite simple- remove the toenail completely.

    47. wull says:

      Thank you very much, Robert Peffers, @ 7.13. ‘Maybe the drive for independence is not via Westminster but via the courts.’ Nice one. Absolutely. It’s a matter of justice, after all – not simply political acumen, or tactics. Just justice, for everyone concerned. Including both countries.

      Yet, not uniquely through the courts. The battle is being fought on several fronts simultaneously. And being won on all of them. This is important, because these fronts are all interconnected.

      As I understand it, when a member state wants to leave the EU, that member state must respect its own constitution both when making the request to leave, and when negotiating the detail of how it will do so, and with which consequences.

      If, through the courts, it could ultimately be proved that the UK is not / was not respecting its own constitution, especially in respect of Scotland, when it exited, then its exit will be as null and void – even in the eyes of the EU – as was Boris Johnson’s prorogation of Westminster.

      In that case, the only way the English Brexiteers could ever have their cherished Brexit would be for England to become independent from Scotland (with Scotland thereby becoming independent from England). If England wants Brexit, England will have to break up the UK. Because England simply CANNOT constitutionally and therefore legally overrule the will of the Scottish people (62% in 2016, and now growing) to remain in the EU.

      An English government – but not a UK one – could legitimately arrange for England to leave the EU. A UK government CANNOT constitutionally overrule the sovereign will of the Scottish people. If it attempts to do so it will be acting against the Scottish constitution. That, however, would be illegal, because the Scottish constitution which is an integral part of what originally constituted and still constitutes the UK, and it is still in force. The Westminster parliament CANNOT overrule it.

      It (the Westminster parliament) CANNOT legally overrule, abolish or ignore one of the elements which constitutes it, and on which it was supposedly founded. Even if it HAS INDEED, as we all know, frequently ignored the will of the Scottish people – and even did so when it was first set up – whenever it has done so, it has been acting illegally.

      WE know that it was a sham from the beginning, because all the evidence from 1707 shows that the Scottish people did not acquiesce in what happened, and did not agree with it. But even when decades and centuries onward, for a certain period of time (e.g. during the 19th and some of the 20th Century) it may have seemed as if the Scottish people did acquiesce in the UK Union that had originally been imposed on them against their will, the Scottish constitutional principle still remained that the people are sovereign in Scotland.

      And in instance after instance, including very recently, even Westminster has acknowledged the ongoing validity of that basic constitutional principle. It has done so for the simple fact that it CANNOT do otherwise.

      WE KNOW these things (or should do), but the world at large – including the EU – generally doesn’t.

      Why don’t they?

      Because England, and English-dominated Westminster has sold the world at large a dummy. Not just a dummy, but the very big lie that the UK = England, and that the English Constitution (in which parliament was sovereign) = the UK constitution. They have even sold that dummy – that downright lie – to themselves, and to their own people.

      Now that all the lies are beginning to come undone, they are all unravelling before our very eyes, one after the other. This is Scotland’s hour. This is the moment when the world, including the EU, is beginning to realise how phoney and fraudulent the UK parliament actually is (and, in fact, always has been). In its pretensions to be something which, constitutionally, it isn’t.

      That is, contrary to what they have always been told, the EU and the world are beginning to see that the entity they know as the UK, unlike other political entities, has two constitutions, not one. And they are BOTH VALID, and BOTH OUGHT to be and, legally, HAVE to be respected when the UK acts. As, for instance, when it is attempting to LEAVE the EU.

      If the UK government tries to do that while contravening one of the two constitutions which underpin it (the UK), it will be acting unconstitutionally and illegally. The EU CANNOT legally make agreements with individual politicians or political factions (e.g. Boris and Co Unlimited) who contravene the constitution(s) of the political entity they purport (i.e. pretend) to represent.

      As the court battles ensue, it will become more and more evident to the EU (and to the world at large) that a UK government which seeks to take the WHOLE of the UK out of the EU CANNOT actually do so. If it attempts to do so it is NOT representing the will of of the Scottish people which remains sovereign in Scotland which, as one of the two component parts which constitute the UK, all UK governments are bound to acknowledge and fully respect.

      What is also becoming apparent, and ought to be increasingly noticed by the EU negotiators, is that the UK has finally spawned an Executive (Boris & Co Un-Limited) which is clearly illegitimate on all fronts. The EU therefore CANNOT negotiate with these people … Because, as a supposed, but actually illegitimate, ‘executive’ they (Boris & Co) do NOT represent anyone. Above all, they do NOT represent the political entity that joined the EU as the ‘UK’.

      That is to say, this Executive is acting UNCONSTITUTIONALLY in regard to BOTH the constitutions which constitute the UK, and remain operative within it. The recent brou-ha-ha has demonstrated that Boris & Co, the pretendy executive that wants no limitations placed upon its powers, are not respecting the English constitution. They illegitimately closed down the legislature to which, as executive, they are constitutionally accountable. They did this in order to remain unaccountable to anyone other than themselves, all of which is totally unconstitutional.

      The ‘Gina Miller’ case demonstrated this, even to the English themselves (or at least, large swathes of them). The English constitution, in which parliament is supreme and the legislature holds the executive to account, had been contravened. The action of Boris & Co had therefore been unlawful, and the prorogation utterly null and void.

      It was therefore the Gina Miller case that grabbed all the headlines in the English-dominated press. But underneath that Gina Miller case lay the Joanna Cherry case.

      The ruling of the Court of Session in the Cherry case had demonstrated that the same Boris & Co (the would-be unlimited and unaccountable ‘executive’ of the so-called UK) had also acted unconstitutionally, and therefore unlawfully, in Scots law as well. The Scottish judges had found that Boris & Co’s prorogation of Westminster had been undertaken for a purpose that rendered it invalid.

      What all this increasingly suggests is that Boris & Co are a ‘rogue’ executive, which does not respect either the sovereignty of the people in Scotland or the sovereignty of parliament in England. Overriding both the constitutions of the two countries which constitute the UK, it is claiming for itself the ability to exercise powers which it does not constitutionally or legally possess.

      Whether in regard to its own member states, or other states outside itself, the EU can only negotiate with constitutionally legitimate governments comprising those who do legally represent the people they purport to talk for. In view of what has been happening in the courts – and will continue to happen there – it must be beginning to dawn on the leaders of the EU that they CANNOT negotiate with Boris & Co. Any deal they make with him (Johnson) and his pals might well be open to challenge in the courts. Both in the UK (before both the Court of Session in Edinburgh and the UK Supreme Court in London), and in the highest European court as well.

      Even if Johnson does get a ‘deal’, the courts might have to declare it invalid. And if he crashes out of the EU without one, that crashing out might be declared invalid as well. In which case the UK will still be a member state of the EU.

      Even if he gets a deal and Westminster approves it, that need not be the end of the story. The deal could be valid in England, where parliament is sovereign, but not in Scotland, where the people remain sovereign. With the EU at last aware of the true nature of the UK’s constitution – aware, that is, that the Scottish constitution is different from the English one, that both are fully operative in their respective places, and that both have to be respected – their own (EU) lawyers and leaders will realise what Johnson’s ‘deal’ actually means, legally speaking. Namely, that England has left the EU, but not Scotland.

      Maybe this is what Ian Blackford means, and has meant all along, when he has stated so often and so categorically that ‘SCOTLAND WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF THE EU AGAINST HER WILL’. The EU’s own insistence on respecting the respective constitutions of each of its member states makes such ‘being forced out against their will’ an impossibility for Scotland, even legally speaking, so long as the Scottish people continue to vote to remain IN the EU.

      Yes, indeed – as Robert Peffers surmises – maybe it will indeed prove to be ‘through the courts’ that Scotland will achieve her independence. There is a logic in all of this.

      If Scotland wants to stay in the EU and England wants to leave the EU, it seems to be a logical inevitability that the UK automatically breaks up. That is what the two constitutions operative in the UK automatically – that is to say, quite simply, of themselves – bring about. It just happens. Scotland goes the EU way, and England goes its own way.

      A simple ‘bye-bye’, and no hard feelings required on either side. Both sides get what they want. As in all farewells, there might be a tinge of sadness – and why not? so there should be, we are only human after all – but no need for any grudge, since no one is being denied anything, and both are gaining precisely what they preferred and opted for. This parting of the ways is the opposite of one nation imposing itself on another, and should be celebrated in a friendly way, as a liberation for both.

      Recognising the differences between us doesn’t have to make us enemies, and never should. That’s what adults do. Adult relationships don’t depend on agreeing on everything, but on recognising each other, in our difference. And even celebrating that difference.

      Of course, we have quite a way to go before it comes to that. Even in terms of emotional maturity, all round. But come it will, … eventually!

      I hope so …

    48. Colin Alexander says:

      Cubby

      “Asked by reporters if it was a possibility she could hold a Catalan style referendum without the permission of Westminster, the First Minister said: “No, I am not open to that possibility.” “

    49. Capella says:

      @ Wull – excellent post. There is only one quibble I have. The English High Court ruled that the prorogation was “not justiciable”. Lord Sumption also proclaimed that, loud and clear, before the supreme Court judgment. I would argue that the Gina Miller case did not prove the prorogation unconstitutional because under English law, Parliament is sovereign and the courts can’t interfere with political decisions.

      Without the Scottish Court of Session judgement that prorogation was unlawful, Gina Miller’s case might not have got to the Supreme Court. Parliament didn’t act to prevent the prorogation through e.g. a VONC.

      Nicola’s demand tonight that Parliament co-operate to remove Boris Johnston is reinforcing the supremacy of Parliament in Westminster – but they must act in order to enforce that supremacy.

      The stupid Lib Dems of course are climbing onto their high horse because they won’t co-operate with Jeremy Corbyn. That should clear up any lingering doubt voters might have had about Jo Swinson’s Tory credentials.

    50. Kangaroo says:

      Robert Peffers 7:13 &
      wull @ 9:55

      Pretty much nails it, but lots of people need it spelled out because they have been propagandised for decades and denied their true history, in both Kingdoms I should add.

      I actually don’t think this will get to court as I think that Scotland has constitutionally opted, for the UK to be an EU member and the UK leaving will automatically #DissloveTheUnion and that is what Ian Blackford is indicating. It is also why they are fairly relaxed.

      When the Union is dissolved I can hear the chorus from the Yoons of “we want a referendum” to which the reply ought to be “No, it was a once in a generation event, weren’t you listening”

      But before all this we need to extend the deadline beyond the EU tax change deadline, Jan 31 2020 is sufficient. As a parting gift to the peoples of the whole UK.
      Oh Happy days.

    51. dadsarmy says:

      I think the House of Commons might be falling over itself to give a Section 30 Order “How quick do you want it, 48 hours quick enough? We’ll parachute in the Queen to give the Royal Assent.”

    52. Kangaroo says:

      Capella @11:30

      I think you are correct Miller didn’t prove her case, but what happened in The English High court was virtualy the same as in the Outer House Of the Cos, it was simply stated that they thought it was non justiciable but above their pay grade so waived it through to a higher court for the decision. If you doubt this then watch the recent BBC Question Time where Miller states precisely that.

      Without the separate Scottish legal system and hence separate Scottish constitution the UK Supreme Court would probably have dismissed Miller’s appeal, this is only a reasonable guess on my part, as three English High Court judges had already determined that it was Not justiciable.

      The Scottish case was therefore pivotal and the UK Supreme Court all but paraphrased the Scottish judgement. Thus Scottish Law has effectively been written into the English Constitution(I say English here as IMHO the UK has two separate Constitutions Scots and English which occasionally come together and occassionally overlap and are colloquially termed the unwritten UK Constitution. – expecting pelters from Mr Peffers)

    53. twathater says:

      Wull , Capella , Kangaroo and others very many outstanding comments , a great thread , it shows when we all stop bickering and accusing each other of WHATEVER we ALL have this great country Scotland and it’s people at the forefront

      Wull special thanks to you for a very illuminating and pertinent explanation of what may be the PLAN

      Let’s make Edinburgh AUOB the biggest yet

    54. Gary45% says:

      Chris, We will order the book when back home in “God’s Country” Nice one.



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