Frightened rabbits
Posted on
April 29, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
It’s not, of course, the first time that “Better Together” has run away crying from the thought of a neutrally-chaired public debate. Glasgow is the No camp’s heartland, where their organisation is based, and where the biggest concentration of Scots live.
Yet so terrified are Blair McDougall’s troops of what almost invariably happens when the Yes and No camps put their arguments to the test (a substantial swing to Yes) that they won’t even walk five minutes down the road to face the people of Scotland.
We’re not sure much more needs to be said.
It’s okay to be wrong about something, as long as you have the guts to defend it against scrutiny. That’s what really pisses me off about the whole No campaign – not just examples of cowardice like this, but the general refusal to be truthful about why they want Scotland to stay in the UK.
Unionists refuse to debate honestly because they know folk would not like what they would be hearing. That in itself speaks volumes.
Fwightened widdle wabbits, indeed!
I seem to recall when Glasgow Skeptics were organising their debatethere was a loose cannon UKIP guy desperate to make the UK case. Sure he’d be up for it.
If not a UKIP person, I’m sure a Tory would be very willing to have a platform to defend their Union. It’s only fair as they have pumped the money into the No campaign.
Secret meetings, keeping a low profile, no interviews… Are BT actually a secret society from a Dan Brown novel?
That’s no a bad idea Cath, whenever @UKTogether turns doon an opportunity tae make the case fer the Union, @UKIP should be asked in their place…
If you can’t or won’t defend your corner then it’s probably indefensible.
The question simply becomes…Why haven’t BT organised an event and tried to get a neutral chair for an event THEY”VE organised…oh…right…haha…what was I thinking?!
I leafleted in Glasgow in the 1997 referendum. Result was 83.6% yes. Glasgow was 2nd highest Yes vote then with only West Dunbartonshire beating them. I guess the no campaign know that they.are not in fertile ground in our biggest city.
“Rabbits”?…..
Don’t you mean “Rats Desert Sinking Ship”?
I hope they bring in an actor or someone to sit in the Better Together chair and hold up and read from cards with statements (a la Bob Dylan) from various BT spokespeople to each question raised by the audience, viz:
Q. Why are Scots different?
A. from BT We’re not ‘Scotland has no culture’ the loony Lord Robertson.
Q. Will we be financially better off after indy?
A. From BT ‘Even if indy would make my constituents better off, I would still vote no’. Can’t remember was it Lab MP Jimmy Hood?
Good idea – or not?
Excellent. Let’s remind them the Referendum is a YES sponsored event. Perhaps they’ll decline to participate in that too.
Add it to the mounting pile of evidence that clearly demonstrates: BT think they don’t need to run a campaign, they just think they need to stop Yes running a campaign.
Remember, they think of it along the lines of “cancelling the referendum and voting No give the same result”. If they can’t cancel it, just stop people being informed about it.
They could always ask the CBI.
Well if that is BT’s excuse, maybe we should point out to them that Referendum was called by the Scottish Government – does that mean they’re not going to vote? Hope so.
Agree with Doug Daniels, and would like to say that pro-Unionists refuse to debate honestly because they know folk will not BELIEVE what the BTers say, and with good reason.
This site, and many others, spread the facts about the union, about the poor deal Scotland has always had from Westminster. The genie is out of the bottle. Big coverups cannot be sustained any more. The truth supports Yes!
Fearties. Best response now would be for the Yes campaign to offer to attend one of their organised events
they have turned so many reasonable people against them with the lies, sneers and smears that the reaction they are getting from ordinary reasonable people like me is not too their liking at all. hence the no show, cowards as well as liars.
I don’t feel sorry for the UKOKs because of their contempt for ordinary people and democracy, but it must be a horrible feeling to be part of a campaign and organisation which is despised and derided by all but party beneficiaries and the unwilling to find out facts.
Slightly O/T but I decided to see if there was going to be any events local to me and was having a neb over the BT page…apparently we are “Fanatical Supporters” http://bettertogether.net/page/s/volunteer
a quick look at google definition of the word “fanatical”
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=define+fanatical
“fanatical
adjective
1.
filled with excessive and single-minded zeal.
“fanatical revolutionaries”
synonyms:zealous, extremist, extreme, militant, dogmatic, sectarian, bigoted, rabid, maniacal, radical, diehard, activist;”
Keep it positive BT!
Maybe they would attend if it was held in the CBI Scottish offices, assuming the have an office of course.
So they only will attend BT organised, or BBC organised debates? Huh!
They should ask “Untied with Labour” to put up a speaker.
You’d think the Bitter Together parties could manage to “pool and share” speakers, and come up with somebody for gigs like this.
🙂
o/t are the names of donators going up anytime soon stu? was boasting to my mum about it this morn.
OT
Just noticed that despite the Scottish unionist press dying on its arse, another weekly news review is going to be produced by DC Thomson – yet more column inches to moan about AlicSammin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-27204072
Who’s going to be rushing to buy it? Me neither.
Had a look at the BT site as linked above.
I see they are campaigning in Glasgow 2nd and 3rd of May,
And also Aberdeen on the 2nd.
I do like the cards idea. And Breeks that is something that maybe needs put about with this post. It’s very much along of the lines of petted lip, ma ba’ am away in a huff.
According to James Cook, over on Twitter, the BBC has admitted to being a CBI member for ‘at least 10 years’ and has shelled out the fat end of a quarter-million quid in membership fees.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
A one liner on the BBC Radio news headlines round up at 17:30hrs.
“The BBC are currently considering the request from the NUJ staff to resign from CBI”.
And all of us on here scratching out heads Dave, thinking; “What’s to consider?”
Sad sad sad, every day, more wee chats with my customers, every day they get sent here, every day we get closer. One conversation at a time people, it’s gonna be a big win. Keep up the good work Rev.
We had a man walk into our YES shop today who said “I’ve come into express my support because of the campaign.”
He went onto explain that he had decided to vote YES because of the Better Together campaign.
It is becoming apparent that the Better Together campaign, which is constructed obviously in the belief that Scotland is full of half wits, is creating insult and offence.
In particular the present coordinated smear on Alex Salmond is showing signs of backfiring. Anybody who has paid attention to what he actually said can find nothing inaccurate or particularly objectionable in it. The result of this is to cast doubt on media judgement and intention.
Is it possible that they have finally gone too far in the attempted demonisation of AS and have now blown it?
Big B Taylor speaking for ‘Ukrainians in Britain’ putting the boot in against AS. They want an apology from AS on Putin.
“Here is the FM explaining his position” says Brian… “Oh we can’t hear the tape..” says studio presenter “I’ll explain what he said” says Brian… and so it goes.
Good old BBC. 😉
No wonder BmcD is wearing nappies
I reckon anyone from here could do it. After all we all know their arguments inside out. Take a cage of squirrels to the debate and release them at the right times, job done.
@ turnip-ghost. I’d rather be a fanatic, than a fantasist.
So once again Better Together are actually, better hide from the bright light of truth and honesty.
So the BBC has been a CBI member for “at least 10 years”.
FFS is this some kind of 20 questions game or something? Just tell us the exact date – if you don’t know just as your mates at the CBI.
Of course the condition “at least 10 years” would be met by 20 years.
Ian Brotherhood, that is a lot of licence fee payers money.
On Radio 4 just now there was a discussion about a campaign called “talk to me London?”
The premis is that nobody in London talks to strangers any more.
What a great idea for YES or WoS
A Yes badge below which and invitation to “talk to me why”
I’d wear one in a flash.
AS. should walk into LBC radio and ask for Cameron to phone in (: > )
The Electoral Reform Society campaign for reforming the House of Lords, we can do that quite easily by voting yes and never mind reform it will be gone, the fUK can keep it and hopefully they will fling out our lot like Foulksake and Cataclysmic George et al.
Although the word debate gets used a lot, there isn’t really very much real debate going on.
They are so scared of the debate, it will be interesting to see if the BBC will allow a live debate, probably they will but will allocate the tickets to better together!?
(By permission of Rev Stu – we asked first)
O/T – Apologies.
Hello Wingers,
We’re making a short drama film set on the night of the referendum. The film is called ‘Autumn Leaves’ and we have some big prominant names in the Scottish acting scene already signed up. We just needs £1500 to get it all filmed and edited.
You can read all about this great wee film at the kickstart link (below) and details there of how you can throw a quid or two to help it take flight. And there’s even a possibility it might get shown on the telly on referendum night (early days though).
Some generous folk have already pledged their support, so MASSIVE thank you to them.
The link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glasschequefilms/autumn-leaves
Do what you can lads ‘n’ lassies to make this happen.
And a mighty big “Thank You, Stu” for letting me post this on Wings.
Occult practices from the Better Together Britnat worshipers. 🙂
Their campaign is absolutely falling apart at it’s shoddily stitched seams, spilling and spreading little pockets of yes voters all over the place like polystyrene balls.
I would be utterly embarrassed to put my name to such a campaign.
Bettertogether’s got the whole UK media industry and the BBC in Scotland so it makes no sense for them to debate like this. But it all counts so keep on inviting them!
I think I know why Better Together are feart of turning up at any independence debate. 😉
http://tinyurl.com/ltkfsa7
I know that Eddi Reader has offered to attend ANY of their regular meetings to allow them to put their case to her.
Haven’t seen any response from them yet though.
It will probably never happen.
BT is a top down managed organisation, largely dependent on the British media to publish its message.
But they don’t have a grass roots movement at the base so are invariably unwilling to meet grass roots campaigners for an open debate.
Thus, their own meetings are usually held in front of a pre-screened audience.
Their biggest threat then comes from on line pages like these & other on line media like Twitter/Facebook that reach those looking for a reason to vote YES.
And when these unsure voters do show up, many of them end up moving from a NO to an UNDECIDED or from UNDECIDED to YES.
It is precisely because BT’s meetings are pre-screened, they are unable to motivate large numbers of UNDECIDEDS to a NO.
Have you heard of anyone who switched from YES or UNDECIDED to NO? I mean anyone?
BBC Reporting Scotland leading with Ukranians wanting Alex Salmond to explain his remarks over Putin. The row intensifies, they say. So much so is wasn’t even mentioned on STV News. BBC Scotland making mountains out of molehills once more. Sadly some dafties will swallow this and it will increase their hatred of him.
Do what Have I Got News for You did when Roy Hattersley refused to turn up after being booked to appear. They replaced him with a tub of lard.
It would make a more convincing case for the Union than George Robertson.
Astonishing lack of respect shown by Better Together. Only owning up to their intention not to attend when confronted with bad publicity on Twitter.
Daily Politics today other politicians have admired Putin
I think Obama was mentioned.
EBC Scotlandshire stirring up the shit again and who is the biggest stirrers, the Dundee dumpli and Jackie the cuckoo Burd. If you don’t know what’s happening just make it up and look serious.
They really are beyond the pale. Treacherous dangerous people.
Thump thump here comes Trump, wanting to but Tunberry
links. There,s Oil in them there waters, big Oil rigs
Donald spoils the view, ok its no big spinning things, but
they hiv a big flame on the top of them.
I see Vladimir Putin was The Times’ International Person of the Year
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3960759.ece
BBC CBI Scotland will be sending reporters to speak to them.
This such an important time in Scotland’s history, that, the Better Together camp, should be forced somehow to state their case. Using such lame excuses to avoid debating, just isn’t good enough, of course when put under the microscope, the case for the union quickly dissolves. Ergo, there are covert reasons for the naesayers, to remain tacit.
BBCBI?
I like it Murray McCallum
Refusing to debate, lies and scare stories.
If this is all they have, then they are in for one helluva fright come the summer. I’m hearing from quite a few folk now who are still undecided, but are getting seriously annoyed …nay …angry at the lack of information coming from the ‘No’ camp.
People are not stupid. They know the media are at it. This is day 2 of Putin-gate, and still, I’ve heard no one condemn Salmond.
Someone from the BT mob is going to get savaged live on TV sooner or later. It’s coming …and once that happens, then watch it all fall apart as people begin to question the Union argument.
Regarding the NO camp declining participation – isn’t it the MOD on the unionist side, and has been for weeks?
Keep the venue hush hush until the last hour, secure the building, move inside swiftly to avoid hecklers and press, control audience number and choose only supporters or the acquiescent, refuse Q@A, present the hard-hitting speech, refuse press attention, take the first flight back to London.
O/T
I’m in the middle of a debate about currency union and I can’t find a relevant link to the recent leak. Can any help, please?
What on earth did I just listen to? I’m sure someone smarter than I can deconstruct the labour party’s Euro broadcast..
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/28/independent-scotland-may-keep-pound
Guardian what did it CameronB
@ CameronB
Original story
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/28/independent-scotland-may-keep-pound
I’ve used this myself a lot
CameronB – there’s this link to the Business For Scotland site which also contains references to Guardian breaking the story and Herald running it too.
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/of-course-there-will-be-a-currency-union-says-senior-uk-government-minister/
heedtracker
Cheers. 😉
Cameron B
I’m sure its under The Herald. Headline was Pro-union campaign in crisis after minister admits currency union ban was a bluff
By Tom Gordon, Scottish Political Editor, Sunday 30 March 2014
I imagine if you were a Russian or Russian speaking Eastern Ukrainian living in Scotland you’d be pretty offended today at the BBC / MSM.
In case anybody missed it on Twitter, an EU diplomat has apparently broken cover in support of Yes. He’s from Glasgow though – what would be really epic is if somebody from another EU nation spoke out.
http://www.neurope.eu/article/if-scotland-says-yes-so-should-barroso-and-europe
elementary error
A spelling mistake around the name of the Scottish Labour leader marred some question papers as the exam season started for thousands of Scottish school pupils.
A question in the Modern Studies Intermediate 2 test paper about women in politics misspelled the first name of Johann Lamont as “Joann”.
A notice was issued along with the exam papers to highlight the mistake and invigilators informed pupils before they started.
The Scottish Qualifications Authority (SQA) said the error was “identified during the editorial process” and would not have affected pupils’ understanding of the question.
Labour said it hoped the mistake did not put any pupils off.
O/T but have just watched a Labour PPB for the Euro elections that didn’t mention Europe ONCE!! The words ‘ better together’ came up a lot though.
UKIP guy desperate to make the UK case
I see no problem inviting UKIP to represent the union. Farage has been on Question Time when the referendum topic has been discussed.
If Better Together have been offered first and declined, then no probs filling the spot with someone from a pro-UK party such as UKIP.
RogueCode
Sorry, thanks as well. 😉
What difference does it make who organises the debate? It was to be moderated by the Electoral Reform Society no less, or had the dastardly nats refused any UKOKer entry?
Well worthy of a Press Release to the Scottish media on the refusal of BT to put their argument to public debate.
And JLT, sorry. 😉
@ Wee Ginger Dug 6:29 – all the lard in Brechin assures me they are voting Yes, and as with the red squirrels wish you would actually ask them their opinions.
Did anyone else see at the end of the Labour election broadcast on BBC1 the continuity announcer stifling a laugh? Or was it just me?
CameronB: This is a good one on sterling, tho not sterling union. It still proves Project Fear are lying when they say the only way to keep the £ is to vote to stay in the Union.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4fac1560-be7c-11e3-b44a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz30IfcyzGO
Seen it laughed my lungs up and nearly spilt my vino. Shockingly bad broadcast to boot.
So Better Together will only turn up at a secret location organised by themselves with a panel of Unionist speakers preaching to a select invited audience cue photo op and a bit on the telly. Meanwhile back in the land of democracy and freedom of speech Better Together refuse to engage in a meaningful debate because they will come up with any old excuse to disguise the fact they have no grassroots campaign with no positive argument for Scotland remaining within the Union.
@Murray McCallum,good find Murray,Cameron ust have said
something in his tie about Putin at they summits.
@Bookie from Hell: I heard Kezia Dugdailymail on the radio about 5pm talking about the SQA spelling error and she said Johann should be happy she is part of the Modern Studies paper and not the History one.
Miaoww…
Looks like Kezia might be after Johann’s job right enough.
Bliar McDougall has eaten too many doughnuts so he can’t have run very far.
Mary Bruce
Thanks.
O/T
I’m not sure if this is the First Minister’s reply, to wee Willie Hague, or if its a satirical send up.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alex-salmond/alex-salmond-open-letter-to-william-hague_b_5231038.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Papadox says:
EBC Scotlandshire stirring up the shit again and who is the biggest stirrers, the Dundee dumpli and Jackie the cuckoo Burd. If you don’t know what’s happening just make it up and look serious.
They really are beyond the pale. Treacherous dangerous people.
I certainly hope they stay in EBC and don’t go over to SBC after Independence!
Perhaps all BBC staff should have to apply for jobs in the new SBC. There are some who won’t be welcome on our screens.
BBC now saying they been CBI members since “at least” 1980.
What wiz that lump of wood standing beside Sarwar ah ruff
copy of a Ventriliquist,s dummys heid, ave seen mair
expression on a Cabbage Patch Doll.
Sorry to be OT, but any posters in the Herald would be advised to check that their comments aren’t being left in place for a dramatically changed article, the effect of which could be to discredit the pro-independence poster.
I pointed out the substantial change to the article, and that posting was immediately deleted. Now, whether this is just poor moderation, or a deliberate smear tactic I leave to the imagination. You can see from the article URL compared to the headline just how much the article has changed:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/salmond-row-over-praise-for-putin-deepens.24085509
@Andy-B
Pretty sure that’s real; it follows the style Alec uses and it’s well informed.
I just saw this on Facebook, on a totally unrelated matter, but thought it just as prescient regarding independence:
“The journey to sovereignty is spectacularly bloody. That’s why the journey calls for a Hero. You will have issues. You will lose sleep. You will be tormented with decisions of right and wrong and by worries about “What will they think?” You will be gutted by loneliness. There will be demons of doubt feeding on your insecurities and spitting the past in your face, telling you that you don’t really deserve to be free and that bliss is not possible and that you’ll just fall apart if you get it anyway. You’re gonna have to wield your inner light saber to slay those bastards.” – Danielle LaPorte
Does anyone know if they are going ahead without BT or indeed with a Dan shaped tub of lard?
Their lack of participation should not be allowed to stop those from Yes getting the message out.
Wasn’t there someone collecting data on no replies, refusals & no shows?
Neutral venue and neutral chair and a 2 vs 2 debate. What could be the problem…
Oh wait….the fecking public will be there. OMG! Run away!
Did you ever see the like? Just put a couple of tubs of lard on their chairs and let the public ask questions of those who have bothered to turn out and speak.
The Rev is out doing his “roving reporter” bit at the UKIP event in Bath. Tune it to see live updates on Twitter 🙂
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland
This is what happens when you think you have won the race before starting pistol has fired. You don’t train, you become complacent, you get fat and flabby.
You’re going to be weighing the no votes, ignore the opposing view, you’ve got the press and TV on your side, what have you got to worry about?
Then the Scottish citizens go and bugger it up! They organise, talk to each other, debate, bypass the regular media. See those Scots they’re smarter than you think!
Heather
Cheers for that .Doubt and anxiety are always the warriors biggest enemy.I like Frank Herbert’s Pranayama Bindu litany from Dune.
“Fear is the little death
Fear is the mind killer
I will let my fear
Wash over me
And when it has passed
Only I will remain”
Not bad from memory,last time I read it was 30 yrs ago.
If that labour political broadcast was supposed to be on
the EU elections & they made no mention of EU is that not
false advertizing, & claiming taxpayers money under false
pretence.
This is either apparent snobbery at not wanting to appear because it’s only Yes Glasgow or trying to seem more important as they should only be speaking at a national level is similar to Cameron as Prime Minister not wanting to speak to our First Minister because it’s a Scotland only matter and he doesn’t want to get involved in Scottish matters. No matter how you slice and dice it, they’re both feart because they know it’s a battle they’ll lose. The only question for them is by how much.
Pranayama ? It should’ve been Prana,wtf is pranayama?
Stoopid predictive text,forgot I was on an iPad.
I am sure they could get Glenn Campbell and Gary Robertson for the UKOKers.
I am sure they could get Glenn Campbell and Gary Robertson for the UKOKers.
UKIP MEP candidates:
http://reigate.ukip.org/the-party/candidates-for-mep
It seems that the BBC were membersof the CBI during the miners strike and the privatisation back in the 80’s.
@Goldenayr
Well done on your memorisation skills :p It made me think of this by the Buddha: “The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed.”
I seriously think we have reached the point where these events just need to go ahead anyway, with an announcement at the start explaining exactly why there are no BT representatives.
Pranayama is yogic breathing.
@goldenayr
wtf is pranayama?
I think it’s a prawn that’s got tangled up in your jim jams.
Sorry O/T Jime Sillars on live now at Penilee http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/2946250
Heather
Makes sense,he used all religions and philosophies for his characters.
I would all recommend you all to put formal complaints into the BBC on the CBI issue to support the NUJ position.
Also please sign the petition…
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
It may be a small victory if we can get the BBC out of the CBI but it will be worth it.
If we cannot – at least we tried !
Richard Bruce says
@goldenayr
wtf is pranayama?
I think it’s a prawn that’s got tangled up in your jim jams.
Show aff,there’s no shame in being a shrimp my mum always told me.Next you’ll be telling me it’s a King prawn.
goldenayr says:
29 April, 2014 at 7:37 pmHeather
Cheers for that .Doubt and anxiety are always the warriors biggest enemy.I like Frank Herbert’s Pranayama Bindu litany from Dune
“the sleeper has awoken”
Dr JM Mackintosh
Done awhile back,also the rob Gordon uni one.Shh..nicked the wife’s email and signed her up to.She gets that much spam from all the online shops she’ll not notice.
daddyo
And aren’t they cacking themselves…now whit did a dae wi thae Makir hooks?I need to get Shai Hullud tae the vet.
MP Patrick Mercer has resigned his Commons seat.
Another crooked MP caught taking brown envelopes in return for lobbying that Fiji returns to the Commonwealth. He was caught out by a fake business group, actually a tv team.
Will it add a few more Yes votes? Or will the fearful prefer corruption to self-determination?
Makes you wonder how it would have been if, on the night of the SNP’s landslide victory we got to hear what Brown discussed when he called the leaders of political parties to discuss ways of undermining voters’ choice, a tv team there with him masquerading as a lobbying firm.
Just thought about another Dune reference.Herberts books were about the geopolitics of the time and what he thought would transpire in the future.It was his area of expertise in the CIA.
Anyhoos,the leader of the Fremen came from a planet called “Caladan”. Sounds pretty similar to “Caledon” does it not?
Fear is the mind killer.
Nene Gesserit maxim, another Dune reference… 😉
Bene, not Nene, doh!
O/T
Rome to Home update. Mark Coburn in Pisa tonight.
Graphic of route now up on site
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rome-to-home-1421-miles-on-a-bike-for-yes/x/2717166#gallery
Update and photos from Tuscany on the FB page
https://www.facebook.com/rometohome
Please circulate to local YES groups and others.
Stuart Black
Any relation to Neneh Cherry?
I think your predictive text is playing up to.Anyhoos,this is how it all started an hour ago.
goldenayr says
And aren’t they cacking themselves
goldenayr says:
29 April, 2014 at 7:55 pmdaddyo
Only on WoS can you get Frank Herbert and Scotland’s stand against repression in the same post. There is a storm coming (and it’s heading South)
Chugging along quite nicely…833 signatures.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
Prawns makes me think of District 9, an altogether different type of oppression.
goldenayr
I posted a New Age Steppers track in OT, a couple of days back. Band members included Neneh Cherry and Arianne Foster a.k.a. Ari Up (the Slits).
@Ian Brotherhood
I signed earlier this week.
@Ian Brotherhood
I signed earlier this week.
daddyo
We don’t have enough sand,so we’ll send back everything they give us and make it a shitstorm.
Spice up there life even more..:-)
Heather
Of course,that was the ones I was referring to.
Mr Sillars is a class act… if anyone leaves that meeting still in doubt about not voting YES I would be astonished.
The NO campaign have nothing to compare with what is going on at the grass roots.
Jim Sillars mentions WoS but he does not understand twitter.
🙂
@ Doug Daniel (top of replies)
It’s not that they’re wrong (we’ve all been wrong before) but that they continue with their assertions once proven wrong. It tells us so much about the beast. It also reminds me of the Dodo & the dinosaurs.
After independence we cannot work with these people. They must be run out of town because they will miss no opportunity to wreck our country. Perhaps, when we finally achieve our destiny, they can be called how they are. Traitors!
Sorry O/T but in the news:
Today the BBC has run a story on Qatar. The worlds richest country per Capita, since several years.
There are important lessons for Scotland in both how the UK has mismanaged (Stolen) our resources and how the powers of independence will be an enabler to manage our Country with our own priorities.
Key facts:
Qatar became independent from UK in 1971. If only Scotland had done the same!
Qatar is much smaller than Scotland in land mass but has 50% of our Population.
Qatar is now, by far, the richest country per Capita in the world and over 3 times richer than the UK per Capita.
Qatar has managed all this through managed petroleum and Gas resource exploitations under its control since the late 70s.
However, based on eia.giv statistics (International Energy Statistics) going back to 1980, when Qatar was just ramping up, they have produced total of:
29,000,000/ 34 years = 853,000 bpd average (see http://www.eia.gov/cfapps/ipdbproject/iedindex3.cfm?tid=5&pid=53&aid=1&cid=regions&syid=1980&eyid=2013&unit=TBPD)
For comparison the UK has produced a total of 74,000,000 / 34 years = 2, 177,000 average for the same period. UK is over 2.5 times more than Qatar (90% UK production from Scotland).
So, Scotland is just over 2 times the pop. of Qatar and the UK produced nearly 2.5 more Oil and Gas. How has Qatar made such a huge transformation (from nothing) while Scotland has not? The answer must lie with UK Government exploitation, mismanagement and theft. Together with McCrone, these types of revelation should be plished far and wide, and explanations demanded at every opportunity.
The problem united with labour has is there is only one of them, unless he’s done a runner.
The reason BT can’t or won’t debate with anyone, is cause they have nothin to debate with.
Since EBC admits it’s been a member of the right wing Tory CBI for decades and contributed a small fortune into their war chest, I’m very puzzled as to why the Labour Party are ignoring this situation, which is very strange. Or are the Labour Party fee paying members of the CBI as well?
This establishment/Westminster/EBC/MSM situation is a rotting pile of manure. To put it mildly.
WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE!
EphemeralDeception
That has to be one of the most astonishing things I’ve read today.
@ Ian Brotherhood – a wee warning for you on off-topic.
Ok so BT refuse to debate.
So how do you defeat an opponent who refuses to play?
@EphemeralDeception
I saw on a Russian economist on RT recently state that Scotland should be the richest on the planet per capita. That was eye watering stuff indeed.
Papadox
Labour joined with the Tory party in 1931, with the creation of the First National Ministry. This was brought about due to Labour’s inability to agree a budget that would respond to the Wall Street Crash and the global Great Depression. Then the WW2 came along, and it is debatable as to whether they truly separated after 1945.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Ministry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Government_%28United_Kingdom%29
Britain’s First National Government (1931)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbZIyD-X8Y
They are lying in the press and they know it.But its much harder to lie in front of the public and intelligent informed opposition.If Yes could behave like that and have the press report every claim as established fact then yes would be at 80%.So the only way to get the message of truth out is in small groups.The next question is why would Scots lie to hold back their own nation.Firstly there are bitter hardcore British Unionist on the no side.I reckon about 20%.The other lot are Tory businessmen who are terrified they might lose their mansions or the Bentley.They don’t give a jot about Scotland only their individual wealth.The there are the Darlings of this world the MPs on the London gravy train terrified that they will be served redundancy after a Yes vote.Each one of these people will lie ,cheat and steal for their own benefit.They have no real passion only selfishness and bitterness.But will the Scots have the gumption to see right through the veneer?
We could take a few lessons from the debate with the four candidates for the EU Presidency over on Euronews just now.
Well moderated – all candidates speaking excellent english.
C’mon troops, this is one that really deserves our support, ffs, the scarily feisty Barbara Rafferty is signed up, surely enough incentive alone to make sure that this goes into production. 😉
And @ Proud Cybernat/Autumn Leaves films, no need to apologise for touting for funds, I for one am totally energised and enthusiastic about the creativity being generated by the campaign, Autumn Leaves, The Pure, the Dead, and the Brilliant, Yestival and the rest. Let’s make sure it continues when we inevitably reach our goal. 🙂
Oops, forgot to re-post the link, here’s it:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glasschequefilms/autumn-leaves
“Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run….”
@ Stuart Black, and all who have pledged to our film, thanks for all the support and sponsorship, it’s much appreciated and from the heart.
Wee ginger dug is pissed off this week and only Tuesday.
His ‘Preparation Haste’ worth a read. 🙂
Alicsammin was jut a wee haemorrhoid in the arse of the Union, but the Project Fear couldn’t help scratching it. The more it itched, the more they scratched, and the bigger their piles got.
PS
I been watching Sillars & Fox on the live stream tonight and they were fantastic in front of a keen audience.
Mr Fox for SSP was excellent. Got so enthralled in the Q&A session I missed the Euro Semi Final first half.. it was worth it.
@AutumnLeavesFilm – You’re very welcome, as I said above, I find the creativity and energy of these projects very life-affirming (oh no, Pseuds Corner beckons 😉 ), and seriously, you have set a fairly low target there, I’m sure our fellow Wingers will achieve this in a matter of minutes, or maybes an hour or so.
I am immensely looking forward to seeing the finished product, Best wishes. 🙂
You know, when they come to write the history of this referendum. I think one of the questions asked will be “Why this Union, did not seem to merit a more spirited defence? What was it about the Union that filled “unionists” with so much dread they couldn’t bring themselves to talk about it?”
EU Diplomat, Bernard Savage, has come out in favour of Scotland’s ambition for full democracy.
He says Salmond is winning the argument and will “surely persuade EU members of the logic and benfits of full membership by one of the continent’s oldest nations.”
He dismisses outgoing Barosso’s claims about possible “difficulies,” a throw away remark made on Marr’s Orbit.
Link: NewEurope.eu.website
Some photos on my blog of the level of commitment we’re dealing with here. Special thanks to UCH (undercover husband)
http://lynnblair.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/better-together-in-east-kilbride.html
O/T – Apologies just want to get this out to asmany people as possible REV. From NNS yesterday.
On Oil revenue matters this is pretty hard hitting stuff for YES side. Particularly the wee movie brilliant rebuff of UK position and Oil running out guff.
Would advise all to have a look over; it really is an eye opener.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/9114-industry-experts-condemn-westminster-handling-of-oil-and-gas-sector
Grouse Beater says:
Hey, that was a great write up by Savage, our opponents will be further quaking in their boots.
Onward and upward!
Hi Les
Onward and upward!
Seconded!
Meanwhile, Westminster and English newspapers remain obsessed with Farage and Ukip – giving them the “oxygen of publicity” – without understanding the more his party rises in the ratings the more Scotland recoils.
UKOK debater of the year turns up to er…
http://tinyurl.com/kxbu4yw
Had a peek at BBC web site for the latest Salmond / Putin stooshie… tumbleweed! Even looked through side bars and regional stuff, nothing! 🙂
Saw the Mr Savage comments earlier but he’s from Glasgow and not an actual foreigner so small beer as far as UK media is concerned I expect.
@David Agnew says:
What was it about the Union that filled “unionists” with so much dread they couldn’t bring themselves to talk about it?”
It was a trap.
“ow has Qatar made such a huge transformation (from nothing) while Scotland has not?”
Ah, that’s because they have the right king of oil, not the rubbish volatile stuff we have.
A humblebum for NO. Well maybe’s No but can’t vote…Ah well.
http://archive.today/DVPW6
O/t BBC SCOTLAND are saying that Ukrainians in Scotland are demanding an apology from the First Minister about his revelations about his thoughts on Putin!!!! This is Jim Murphy,s crap! Can’t win an argument just slur your opponent and the BBC gives you as much air time as possible!
@Lynn Blair
I just looked at your photo for BT turnout.Dont want to bring everyones hopes down but thats about the turnout,3-4 people, we have each week in Musselburgh.
I have to say to everyone on WIngs to get out and sign up to help your local YES group!
We can win this but we need more people chapping on doors and changing undecided voters to YES.only 5 months to go!
So Billy – your against independence …..coz that’s what they say you told them !!!!
A humblebum for NO.
He disliked Scotland – I choose my words carefully – ever since the critics panned, slated his amateur trilogy of short “prison” plays at the Edinburgh International Arts Festival some years back. I think they were given the generic title “Wee Red Rug,” or something close to that. (Someone will correct me.)
At that time his stock was high, so high he was employed to front everything going on television whether he had knowledge of the subject matter or not, and act in every Scots television drama going … producers fell over themeselves to boast Billy Connolly was to be a guest on their programme.
It’s at that point you begin to believe you’re invincible, you’re every utterance a string of pearls. Critics told Connolly to stick to stand up comedy, for he had a gift.
His acting leaves a lot to be desired too – you look at his eyes and any character he is playing evaporates. You cannot suspend your disbelief. He’s just a very funny man.
@call me dave
You took the words right out o my mouth! I was just about to comment on that aswell. While the “controvosy” over Alec Salmond’s comments was the first item on today’s and yesterday’s Reporting Jockland the only mention of it on the website is buried in yesterday’s article on Salmond’s speech in Brugge. I think the Beeb knows that those who get their news from the internet mostly are more savvy (and more likely to have been born after 1989) than those who get their news exculsively from the TV.
How sad that the no brigade are not coming…I honestly wanted them there to give me a good reason, or any reason actually, to vote no
I’ve yet to find anyone who can give me a good reason to vote no.
I’ll vote no… to a government that has no mandate in scotland,
I’ll vote no…to a government that’s systematically selling off the family silver to their cronies for a pittance
Yes, I’ll vote no all right….
I am becoming considerably concerned by the way the debate is becoming nationalistic – I was born in England, I chose to live here (because this country is gorgeous) the “debate” is being skewed and hijacked.
Billy Connelly said he was in New Zeland at the time of the referendum and he dident want anybody voting a certan way because of what he thought,but the Scots will get the goverment they deserve.what he has said after filming is a diffrent matter.
On topic, this really is pathetic.
Nothing more to say.
A sash wearing workmate, true blue and un-convertable,told me today of a big push for volunteers. The frightened rabbit’s are desperate for boots on the ground.
Is it wrong to wish for some of the more limp of brain & testosterone drippimg pratorean guard to do something silly enough, that the MSM can’t magic it away? No death mind. obv.
A sash wearing workmate, true blue and un-convertable,told me today of a big push for volunteers. The frightened rabbit’s are desperate for boots on the ground.
Is it wrong to wish for some of the more limp of brain & testosterone drippimg pratorean guard to do something silly enough, that the MSM can’t magic it away? No death mind. obv.
Quote from Billy Connolly,
He adds, “The Union (of the countries) saved Scotland. Scotland was bankrupt and the English opened us up to their American and Canadian markets, from which we flowered.”
So England saved us??
Stick to the comedy circuit Billy.
@Paula
Good theory, probably correct.
Been trying to keep up on the twitter feed from Bath re UKIP.
Oh well Alexander’s turn tomorrow. I’ll try to be brave and I’ve always got my ‘Ronnie Anderson’ shelter to go to until the siren sounds the all clear.
What I am really pleased about is the initiative people are showing, everywhere.The can of worms is open, they will not be able to put the lid on it.
Some really great things happening across the board, people from all walks of life are seeing the light, and becoming more determined. I am proud to be here right now,my only regret is my wife died last year, and she sooo wanted to see Independence.
Still, I will have a toast for her on the 19th September!
I am… concerned by the way the debate is becoming nationalistic –
That’s rather ambiguous – in what way “nationalistic”?
@Rev
Do you take snapshots of articles on e.g. the Herald? An article first thing this morning http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/salmond-row-over-praise-for-putin-deepens.24085509 had the headline “Row over praise for Putin Deepens” with comments from the usual suspects, but later changed to make it more about Ukranian residents in Scotland angered by Salmond’s comments “Community leaders: Ukrainians living in Scotland have been left insulted, dismayed and upset by Salmond’s admiration for Putin.”.
I commented that the article had changed, my comment promptly deleted. I replaced my comment, first one as I’m often busy during the night, with “Deleted this posting as not relevant to changed article. Wonder how long this one will last”. That was later deleted, which makes that part of the thread look silly as the first reply was 18 hours old, the latest 5 hours old.
Another very regular poster commented on the article change with a posting about the Ukranians and it was deleted. He just changed his posting to take out the bit abut the article having changed and so far his comment is there.
But, and here’s the worst part, another regular poster had commented about how the (original) article was very balanced (as is actually usual from Michael Settle), and his comment has now been made the “Featured Comment”, even though it was about the original article not the altered one. It’s all looking a bit strange, and I wonder if it’s coincidental that Iain MacWhirter is on holiday.
To get to the point, perhaps now the dirty tricks are upping a stage, and perhaps even pressure being brought to bear on media and even moderators, it might be a good idea to “photograph” every single article on Indy and store them, just in case of changes?
As for the Herald, it’s a few times I’ve thought of packing up posting due to some irrational or outright biased moderation (posts criticising the article contents but not the journo, being deleted), but have “bent over” and taken one for the cause and patiently posted on.
It’s clear I’ve been targetted at times by unionists trying to discredit me and thereby my postings, but at the same time I’m fairly sure at least two of my 14 followers write for the Herald (I’ve seen whole phrases lifted from my postings), plus one ironically from somewhere deep in Labour (maybe an Ian Davidson aide). But I am sick of it, and probably will pack up at last, hopefully having knackered myself out fighting the propaganda, misinformation, disinformation and outright lies from Westminster and Better Together.
Mmmm, rant (kind of) over!
@ Grouse Beater – a lot of the attack coming from the MSM and the British establishment – to my ears sounds like an attack upon our vision of a civic natinalism.
oops missed an ‘o’.
a lot of the attack coming from the MSM and the British establishment – to my ears sounds like an attack upon our vision of a civic nationalism.
Yes, a concerted attack, in that one feeds off the other.
If the British press has been honest about one thing it’s their open antipathy toward Scottish democracy. But when you look at the history of other small nations, or better still, south American countries, we see the same dislike of egalitarianism, the same press in too few hands ready to protect the interests of the power elite of which their proprietors are a pivotal part.
@ Call me Dave
Hope Ronnie Anderson’s shelter is a Tardis so we can aw fit in during the Media hurricane bullshit storm that’s heading our way over the next 5 months
@ twenty 14 – I’m sure Ronnie has built a huge ark.
Deep breaths Paula, big deep breaths.
Also breaking News.
Newsnight shows Saltire without a Union Jack next to it.
It did look a bit lonely.
Paula, sorry its unclear who you imply is stirring. Our side is surely trying very hard to be inclusive.
Apologies if misunderstood.
Should that be “breathes” Paula?
@ haud on the noo – our side is without fault – I meant the way the other side is attempting to stir up stuff xx
@ caz-m, Scotland an Independent country, breathe the fresh air.
Ah sorry, I’d assumed that was your meaning. Thanks
@ haud the noo, s’all right mate, know what it’s like, all these lovely folk making a nation.
@ Dads Army
I commented that the article had changed, my comment promptly deleted
Before I could tell if it was politically driven I’d need to know if the Herald monitors its website, or if it employs a private company.
My experience of moderators is, they don’t like a post replaced that they deleted, or indeed, as the Guardian does frequently, will delete it again even if the second one is a modified version of the first.
Their decision is absolute and final.
I’ve never understood the reasoning when the post is not abusive or argumentative, but merely makes an enquiry.
Then again, a few weeks back a moderator on the Guardian was give 500 words to gloat about his power in an article letting posters know he was God. He enjoyed kicking into touch those he considered delinquent posters.
Think about this one.
Scotland, Iraq and Libya are all oil rich nations who should have the highest standard of living for their people.
Yet the three countries are in poverty. And what do they all have in common?
The Westminster Establishment has came in, taken over their internal affairs and destroyed them.
@dadsarmy: You are one of more than a few who have given up on, “The Herald”, of recent months. I got fed up spendiung time posting there and being ignored. Not even a, “this post removed”. Most ex-Herald posters seem to have ended up have ended up here on WoS. The Herald is not nearly so even handed as they would have readers believe.
Argh! my last post decided to post itself before I clicked submit, or perhaps my hand brushed across the touchpad. Thing is I turned the touchpad off and use a mouse on this wee old netbook. I’m dead beat now so good night all – I’m off to bed.
Wings, Bella and NewsNet were namechecked by David Torrance, political commentator, live on BBC Radio Scotland NewsDrive ( NewsDriveL ) today 4pm.
Good, at least spreading the word.
The radio presenter Bill Whiteford(lightweight) boasts BBC balanced broadcasting!! shock horror!
David Torrance confirms slight element of media bias!! But then says press evenhanded!! shock horror again.
BBC biased bosses will be cursing, live interviews can’t be censored before broadcasting.
Its on Iplayer now for 7days.
Interview starts 17mins in, for 5mins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0419h62
ps. This interview will be to reassure the unionist vote.
David Torrance confirms slight element of media bias!! But then says press evenhanded!!
Knows which side his bread is buttered, does Torrance. Hoping to be next editor of “The Spectator,” I bet.
@paula rose
BT have been trying to spin the ‘ethnicity’ line for some time. It is, I’m afraid, a measure of the depths to which they will stoop. In their desperate attempts to ensure a No vote, they will use every foul tactic to scare off anyone not ethnically Scottish with warnings of everything from purges to transportation after indy.
It’s going to get worse.
We’re going to need every English-born, Asian-born, Polish-born – Wherever-born Yes voter to stand up publicly and reject this…as the unpleasantness it is.
There are quite a lot of unionists in the Borders. Or so we’re told. When our Yes organiser got in touch with the BT organiser to enquire about fixing up some joint meetings, she blew him off. Said she and her group were only part-time volunteers and it wasn’t up to them to get involved in anything like that.
As Calum said, what the bleep does she think we are, for goodness sake. But we just get out there and do stuff.
We have completely given up even trying to get a joint event organised anywhere in the Borders. We’re just getting on with organising Yes meetings (thanks to that fundraiser) and they can stew in their own juice.
@kininvie
@paula rose
I agree, all NEW Scots are very welcome.
If you choose to live in Scotland, you are welcome.
We need all the drive and energy New Scots will bring.
It will increase GDP.
Its all good.
@Morag –
‘When our Yes organiser got in touch with the BT organiser to enquire about fixing up some joint meetings, she blew him off.’
Aye, that’s devotion for ye…
@Grouse Beater, @Robert Peffers
I wonder if the journos can delete posts. A couple of weeks back there was some article with a wicked mis-statement which I pulled up sharply around 4am. By 8am the article had been corrected and my comment deleted.
Anyway, yes the Herald does slant most stuff, even in the way it headlines it not for sensationalism which is fair enough, but as a “Salmond warned” type of stuff. I guess I kid myself on I’m in there doing the good fight, but all I’m probably doing is giving the Herald credibility it doesn’t deserve, and if it doesn’t like my ripping of an article they just delete the posting – or change the article to make the posting look senseless or worse!
The Herald, like the UK, can become diminished by my absence, probably, allegedly. Time for bed.
Back in the 1960s, 70s and 80s I had every letter I sent to the Herald published, usually verbatim, very occasionally with minor editing which improved the language and otherwise didn’t interfere with the meaning.
In recent years I’ve given up sending them letters, not because some weren’t published, but because those that were, were edited to slant the thrust away from my own original intent. Sometimes they appeared to have been edited by semi-literate imbeciles.
Then I realised they were doing the same to the online comments. I have never been able to post there unmoderated despite initially taking a lot of care to be polite and uncontentious. Posts would take ages to appear, and then often they would be altered to suit the paper’s editorial line.
That’s when I quit.
Morag.
I agree. I stopped posting in the Herald more than a year ago because my comment had been moderated in a way so that the point of the post suited the editorial line.
I would rather they had not printed my post at all. The thought of some gobshite sitting there thinking he/she is being smart was eneough for me. I don’t even give them a click any longer.
STOP posting in these rabid unionist rags – you are keeping them afloat. Imagine Llewellyn’s face if someone on his staff told him there were no posts on the articles in the Herald – only the unionists patting each other on the back. Do we really need the Herald, Hootsmon etc – we get enough space, clear thought and information on here and other web sites. Bill
Beyond agreeing with you folks I would like to point out that there is a band called Frightened Rabbits which has nothing whatever to do with No.
“Beyond agreeing with you folks I would like to point out that there is a band called Frightened Rabbits which has nothing whatever to do with No.”
Yes, I know. Love ’em. Where do you think the title came from?
Well, last remaining post on the Herald “a day ago” but last action, deleting the contents of the post to foil their little plot and then having it deleted about 12 hours. The first 24 hours of an addiction are the worst, it gets easier. But those fingers twitch, as you feel you have to repudiate the “Scotland claiming one-third of UK assets” total garbage nonsense and, dare I say, utter crap.
I need help 🙂
Now, which of the Record or the Sun would be worth a punt – the readership is 10 times that of the Herald …
Frightened Rabbit are YES supporters. Our new favourite band from Selkirk. http://www.yesscotland.net/news/frightened-rabbit-indie-rockers-back-independent-scotland
A previous poster mentioned that in devo referendum in 1997 Glasgow was the second highest Yes vote in Scotland with around 84% in favour and the only place which was higher was West Dunbartonshire.
Anecdotal evidence (street polls)on the streets of places like Clydebank and the Vale of Leven suggest the result could be similar this time with Yes way ahead in the pols and the campaigns with the No campaign completely invisible.