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Fortify the Cheviots

Posted on April 07, 2013 by

Those wishing to read some more detailed background on today’s Scotland on Sunday stushie can find at this link a paper (full title: “Fortify the Cheviots! The Nazis and the Nats”) presented by Gavin Bowd – author of the SoS article in question – to the University of Edinburgh in June 2012. Here’s the opening paragraph for colour:

“In January 1939, Douglas Young, future leader of the SNP, wrote to his fellow poet, George Campbell Hay: ‘If Hitler could neatly remove our imperial breeks somehow and thus dissipate the mirage of Imperial partnership with England etc he would do a great service to Scottish Nationalism’.

Young thus showed the ambiguous, to say the least, attitude of Scottish nationalists towards Fascism. Hatred of the English led to the downplaying of the Fascist threat to freedom and peace, while more radical nationalists could be attracted to the authoritarian and xenophobic solutions offered by the Fuhrer and the Duce.”

Make your own judgements from the evidence.

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    81 to “Fortify the Cheviots”

    1. Albalha says:

      Read it, hot air, much ado, stuff and nonsense come to mind. Hugh McDiarmid member of Communist Party, now a fascist, ok!
      And the paper was given at Edinburgh not St A as I understand, you know maybe Tom Devine was there?

    2. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I

    3. Albalha says:

      Now clicked your link, that’s from his full profile on the St Andrews University website where he teaches French but it was for an Edinburgh University Conference.

    4. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      In 1939 Hitler was a different kettle of fish. He was held in considerable regard by a large section of the UK establishment and not in the slightest was he the figure he subsequently became in the eyes of the general population.
      He had not for instance incinerated huge areas of heavily populated Vietnam or killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.
      History is what you want it to be largely 

    5. Iain says:

      Lord Halifax, Lord Privy Seal in Baldwin’s government, 1937:
      ‘Writing to Baldwin on the subject of the conversation between Karl Burckhardt (the League of Nations’ Commissioner of Danzig) and Hitler, Halifax said: “Nationalism and Racialism is a powerful force but I can’t feel that it’s either unnatural or immoral! I cannot myself doubt that these fellows are genuine haters of Communism, etc.! And I daresay if we were in their position we might feel the same!”‘

      The Cliveden set:
      ‘The Cliveden Set were a 1930s right-wing, upper class group of prominent individuals politically influential in pre-World War II Britain, who were in the circle of Nancy Astor, Viscountess Astor. The name comes from Cliveden, the stately home in Buckinghamshire, which was then Astor’s country residence.The “Cliveden Set” tag was Claud Cockburn in his journalism for the Communist newspaper The Week. It has long been widely accepted that this aristocratic Germanophile social network was not only in favour of the appeasement of Adolf Hitler but also in favour of friendly relations with Nazi Germany.’

      Churchill, 1938:
      ‘One may dislike Hitler’s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.’

       

    6. Albalha says:

      I was rather flippant above on Hugh McD, it’s fairly well known, isn’t it, he was rather confused politcally, hardly a revelation.

    7. Seasick Dave says:

      You can almost hear Glenn Campbell gritting his teeth as he writes this…
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22057501

    8. Robert Kerr says:

      The victors always write the history books.
       

    9. Iain says:

      Rev Stu, not sure if my comment above is being held in moderation because of a load of Wiki links embedded in one of the quotes. If so, I’ve plucked them out.

    10. Naebd says:

      text isn’t displaying in this text box, on ipad.

    11. Naebd says:

      Second try. Nope, still white on white. Oh, it flashed into existence as I was typing. Seems like it’s perhaps a problem that happens while the page is still not finished downloading (something which takes ages on this site). Feel free to delete these.

    12. Bill C says:

      Offending article seems to have been removed from SoS Facebook page after many, many critical posts.

    13. Naebd says:

      “Read it, hot air, much ado, stuff and nonsense come to mind” 
      In other words, don’t waste my time with these facts of yours.
      As a nat I am sanguine about these facts. Fascism as a political ideology was new on the scene.
      i wonder if the nazis had any laws banning “defilement of the nations flag”…
       
      this text editor is worse than hitler when using it in an ipad, by the way.

    14. Albalha says:

      @naebd
      Take your point, I said later I was being flippant, much of it isn’t new, a lot of this has already been documented, in particular Hugh McDiarmid and his confused politics, that’s my main point really.
      And like you I’m sanguine about the facts though find some of the current framing rather tiresome.
       

    15. GH Graham says:

      Without wishing to give this fanciful nonsense any weight by giving it any attention, perhaps Gavin Bowd might find time to strike a balanced review of British history by examining …
       
      the development & employment of British concentration camps in South Africa in the late 19th century
       
      the state sponsored murder of indigenous peoples in Kenya during the 1950’s by the British colonial government
       
      the decimation of law & order as well as the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi’s during the bombing campaigns in the 1990’s of which Britain was instrumental
       
      the British slave trade in the 17th & 18th centuries which was used to fullfil the production demands of the lucrative cotton & tobacco industries
       
      the foundation & aristocratic support of many of the dozen of more British fascist parties created before & after WW2
       
      Oswald Mosely’s connection to the British Royal family through his fathers side linking him to HM The Queen Mother
       
      Oswald Mosely’s membership of the Fabian society, the group think tank responsible for much of Labour’s socialist foundations
       
      Or we could just turn a blind eye to the Scotsman completely & help accelerate it’s disappearance from the shelves forever.

    16. John H says:

      After this nonsense I wonder what the chances of a mature debate on independence are now. It seems to be the last thing that the unionists want.

    17. Naebd says:

      “like you I’m sanguine about the facts though find some of the current framing rather tiresome.”
      Indeed. I just think some of the response has been OTT (flag defiling, censorship calls) and its rustled my jimmies. God damn this textbox is horrific on ipad. Stu, You need to find a rich editor that Works on the ipad, or just serve up a plain text editor Perhaps.
       

    18. Naebd says:

      Be the mature debate you wish to see in the world – Pat Kane.

    19. Graham Ennis says:

      Well: “In 1939 Hitler was a different kettle of fish. He was held in considerable regard by a large section of the UK establishment and not in the slightest was he the figure he subsequently became in the eyes of the general population.
      He had not for instance incinerated huge areas of heavily populated Vietnam or killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.History is what you want it to be largely ” and that says it all. Geopolitics is a murderous game. The key words are: “NOT YET”, Or, in the case of that ("Tractor" - Ed) to the people of Scotland, Mr Blair, the International War Criminal. he has dragged scotland, and the Scottish people, into two murderous wars, in which about one and a quarter million people have been killed. many scots have died in combat, or been maimed for life. It is an eternal crime that he used Scottish military units to do this,in many cases. On that basis, he has no place in an independent Scotland, although he would be a citizen by Birth of the nation, except in a jail cell, in Barlinnie, awaiting deportation to the Hague for trial, or awaiting trial in an Edinburgh criminal Court. In fact, Scotland has jurisdictional  rights even  now, as law and order and police are devolved, so a warrant could be arrested, and he could be detained, as the UN conventions are applied to Scotland as well. he could be tried here. The question is, why is he not?…..I think, on the “day After” independence, a warrant should and must be issued, and also for the other Labour War criminals, like Hoon, and Straw, as they acted on Scotlands behalf, and in their name. let us be realistic. The unionist regimes in london, will go down fighting, in America’s criminal wars, until their own population are forced into poverty and repression, a process clearly now happening. The gloves must now come off. No more being nice to powerful unionists. They are all ("Tractor" - Ed)s to the scottish people. lamont is a Vichy type creature, and so are all her so called “Shadow Cabinet”, Their opposition to independence, and cravan servile support of the criminal regime in London  should not be given any more forced legitimacy, by everyone refusing to speak the truth about them. From now on, it has to be a relentless challange to them.
       

    20. James 2612 says:

      What’s wrong with an iPad? What has one ever done to deserve comparison with Hitler?

    21. Naebd says:

      If you’re trying to downplaclothe problems with authoring wingsland comments from an ipad, James, well then you are no better than Hitler.
      (good example – at no point did I type downplaclothe, but the ipad, fighting with the rich text editor’s JavaScript decided to put it in my comment there. Hitler.)

    22. Rod Mac says:

      I have to confess that I have till now been a daily “cybernat” on the pages of the North britisher.
      I have taken much pleasure in destroying cyber unionists (the majority live outside of Scotland) like the famous doris /Tellen /Yeah1 creature , the vile multi monikered Tory Boy Rufus,Grahamski etc etc.
      However now ,after this even I cannot take part in the pleasurable sport of unionist baiting.
      I am full of such revulsion I will never even look at that piece of unionist filth ever again.
      i hate to see anyone lose their job ,especially in Scotland ,however I will punch the air in delight the day that particular enterprise closes.
      Only the closing of BBC ,and its replacement by a SBC will give me more pleasure.
      In the meantime I will find other ways to challenge unionists and their lies

    23. Albalha says:

      Just come across this article by Gavin Bowd, 2011, first published in Perspectives, a rather different emphasis.
      The British Union of Fascists (BUF) had only limited success in Scotland. Dumfries was an exception, with upwards of 400 members in 1934. For a time, Motherwell was also considered one of the BUF’s most promising branches. Relatively strong influence in Renfrew could be attributed to Dr Robert Forgan: elected for Labour in 1929, he had resigned over National Government, and was defeated as New Party candidate in 1931.
      http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2011/06/tartan-trechery-radio-caledonia-and-scotlands-lord-haw-haw/

    24. James 2612 says:

      I have Javascript on, but don’t seem to have your problems.
      Have you tried turning off autocorrect?
      Or splitting the keyboard? (Makes each key smaller, but more easy, perhaps, to use both hands.)
      Please can I be not-Hitlerized?

    25. Erchie says:

      @Naebd
      Glad to see it’s not just me having iPad hassle, especially if I have to delete a whole word, then it tends to add something bloody weird to the previous word, or cut off all of the previous word bar the first letter then add a random word or the deleted word after the initial letter.
       
      I wonder if there is too small a memory for the text box and it’s overwriting itself

    26. Marcia says:

      I just get the feeling when I read about the stoochie last night that SoS did this intentionally to gather publicity and hopefully people would go out and buy their paper;  the photo in question is not the one shown in the newspaper.
      At least some sane journalists are still about:
      Iain MacWhirter’s column this week.
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/key-weapons-in-the-fight-to-save-the-union-a-100bn-virility-symbol-and-an-unfair-attack-on-the-poor-good-luck

    27. James 2612 says:

      Erchie & Naebd
      I hope that I am not telling you something that you already know; but it sounds as if you need this instruction from the User Guide:
       

      Position the insertion point:  Touch and hold to bring up the magnifying glass, then drag to position the insertion point.

      In most cases, it is not necessary to delete a whole word in order to make one correction. Using the iPad is so different from using a standard keyboard that initial frustration is almost inevitable. But most ¿why doesn’t the iPad do …? questions can be solved with a slightly different way of doing things. (It took me about 3 weeks to find the instruction which I pasted above!)

    28. Albalha says:

      @marcia
      The photo in question is in the newspaper, I was one of those ‘duped’ to buy.

    29. Naebd says:

      If I had to guess I’d say the rich text editor is confused by some of the ways the ipad corrects text as you type. With JavaScript switched off in safari, I get a plain text box, and all is well. However I’m not going to disable JS just for one site. Not the end of the world, but annoying nonetheless.

    30. Naebd says:

      James: your help is well meant but misplaced. I am a total freakin computer whizz kid who understands the basics of text editing in iOS. 😉

    31. Marcia says:

      Caesar!lha
       
      I made a mistake, it is the facebook page photograph that has been changed. No matter what they produced, I would not be duped into buying a copy. To think years ago when I lived in London I was used to travel miles to get a copy of the Scotsman and SoS.

    32. Jen says:

      There was a lot of copies of the Scotsman left in my local newsagents, this morning!  Hopefully, a sign of things to come. 

    33. Albalha says:

      @marcia
      The ‘duped’ was meant ironically, I collect hard copies of headline making papers.

    34. rabb says:

      The SoS article was the perfect smokescreen for the release of Bitter Together’s funding.
       
      Half a million pounds from a company whos top brass has no vote in the referendum and has ties to Arkan?
       
      Surely this warrants some investigation Stu?

    35. Macart says:

      I’m not exactly known for use of swerry wurds in my posting. In fact I’ve gone out of my way on a number of occasions to defend print production staff, pre press and even the odd journalist in times gone by. However in terms of Scotsman Newspaper, its editorial decline, its journalistic bias and its dwindling support, I can honestly say from the very bottom of my heart to the editorial staff management and publishers, fuck em and the horse they rode in on.
       
      They’ve asserted, mislead, obfuscated and omitted without pause since wee Andra took over the helm and every piece of work that’s taken his place since has carried on without missing a beat. But when some fucker gives the go ahead for a piece that slanders every member of the only party who seems to give a shit about all of the poor and disadvantaged of their country and by association anyone who has voted for them or even supports independence, then they deserve every single outraged word aimed in their direction.
       
      Good riddance

    36. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “And the paper was given at Edinburgh not St A as I understand”

      So it was – wrote the post in a hurry on the way out. Fixed, ta.

      Re iPads, I don’t know what to do. If you think it’s a pain typing comments with one, try editing an article.

    37. muttley79 says:

      @Macart
       
      The article and the picture was a disgrace.  It simply was not journalism in any way, it was propaganda, pure and simple.  It mentioned Hugh McDiarmid being involved in a fascist group.  It declined to mention he took up just about every position in the political spectrum!  Then there was a quote from Douglas Young to a friend about Hitler.  It was a very silly and naive comment to make, but no mention was made of the fact that he later left the SNP because he did not want to give up his Labour Party membership as well!  There was also no attempt made to put events in a historical context and mention the fact that many people in Britain, including the establishment, were (wrongly) attracted to fascism.

    38. Craig P says:

      Naebd – do as I do – type your piece in the native Notes program then copy and paste. Also prevents your lovely comment being lost in the ether if the connection drops 🙂
      So the nationalists hoped to benefit from German politics. So did the royal family and the pope. We have all moved on since then, I would hope. 

    39. Richard Lucas says:

      If irony appeals, you should read the article I link to.  Whilst the MSM attempt to smear us as crypto-Fascists, it appears that Better Together’s chief paymaster was busily involved with Vitol Oil, breaking UN sanctions to give support to real fascists.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jul/01/balkans.warcrimes2 …

    40. Macart says:

      @muttley 79
       
      There’s no attempt to define modern civic nationalism here muttley. The whole point was to continue to mislead and misinform the public. To reinforce negative connotations of nationalism with xenophobic monsters of WWII and the xenophobic monsters of modern barking fringe groups. This wasn’t about considered academia or differentiating between groups and meanings. Its a smear piece, pure and simple. They’ve picked up on the disgusting soundbites of Cochrane, Davidson, Sarwar and Paxman and are running with it as a smear tactic. Utter disgust and revulsion is all anyone should feel at the media for use of such tactics.

    41. douglas clark says:

      There was a huge amount of fascist sympathy amongst the great and the good, read royalty and Lords and politicians both immediately before WW2 and more contentiously, after it started.
      The ex-King Edward VIII had ,ahem, ‘friendly relations’ with the Nazis, if this is anything to go by:
       
      “In October 1937, the Duke and Duchess visited Germany, against the advice of the British government, and met Adolf Hitler at his Obersalzberg retreat. The visit was much publicised by the German media. During the visit the Duke gave full Nazi salutes.[65] The former Austrian ambassador, Count Albert von Mensdorff-Pouilly-Dietrichstein, who was also a second cousin once removed and friend of George V, believed that Edward favoured German fascism as a bulwark against communism, and even that he initially favoured an alliance with Germany.[66] Edward’s experience of “the unending scenes of horror”[67] during the First World War led him to support appeasement. Hitler considered Edward to be friendly towards Nazi Germany and thought that Anglo-German relations could have been improved through Edward if it were not for the abdication. Fellow Nazi Albert Speer quoted Hitler directly: “I am certain through him permanent friendly relations could have been achieved. If he had stayed, everything would have been different. His abdication was a severe loss for us.”[68]”
       
      This was a chap that was removed from the UK and stuck in Bermuda for the duration.
       
      The ‘Peace Party’ seems to have been more prevelant, and more higher placed, that most of us would like to acknowledge.
       
      If anyone can confirm that Churchill still felt threatened by them by about 1941, I should be obliged for the link. He allegedly said that he faced the Peace faction whenever he stood up in Parliament, but I fail to find that quote any more.
       

    42. bawheid bragg says:

      those awfy cybernuts. and that jean brodie fancied mussolini as well, and she was scottish 😀
       

    43. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Edward spent his war years in Monte Carlo, rubbing shoulders with Germany’s agents and plying them with details of the disposition of British troops.

    44. douglas clark says:

      Bugger (the Panda),
       
      Not true, or at least not mainly true:
       

      The Duke and Duchess settled in France. On the outbreak of the Second World War in September 1939, they were brought back to Britain by Louis Mountbatten on board HMS Kelly, and the Duke, although an honorary field marshal, was made a major-general attached to the British Military Mission in France.[34] In February 1940, the German Minister in The Hague, Count Julius von Zech-Burkersroda, claimed that the Duke had leaked the Allied war plans for the defence of Belgium.[69] When Germany invaded the north of France in May 1940, the Windsors fled south, first to Biarritz, then in June to Spain. In July the pair moved to Lisbon, Portugal, where they lived at first in the home of Ricardo de Espírito Santo, a Portuguese banker with both British and German contacts.[70]
      Nazi agents plotted unsuccessfully to persuade the Duke to support the German effort and wrote up plans to kidnap him. Lord Caldecote wrote a warning to Winston Churchill: “[the Duke] is well-known to be pro-Nazi and he may become a centre of intrigue.”[71] A “defeatist” interview with the Duke that was widely distributed may have served as the last straw for the British government: Prime Minister Winston Churchill threatened the Duke with a court-martial if he did not return to British soil.[72] In August, a British warship dispatched the Duke and Duchess to the Bahamas, where, in the view of Churchill, they could do the least damage to the British war effort.
      The Duke was installed as Governor of the Bahamas. He did not enjoy the position, and referred to the islands as “a third-class British colony”.[73] The British Foreign Office strenuously objected when the Duke and Duchess planned to tour aboard a yacht belonging to a Swedish magnate, Axel Wenner-Gren, whom American intelligence wrongly believed to be a close friend of Luftwaffe commander Hermann Göring.[74] The Duke was praised, however, for his efforts to combat poverty on the islands, although he was as contemptuous of the Bahamians as he was of most non-white peoples of the Empire. He said of Étienne Dupuch, the editor of the Nassau Daily Tribune: “It must be remembered that Dupuch is more than half Negro, and due to the peculiar mentality of this Race, they seem unable to rise to prominence without losing their equilibrium.”[22] He was praised, even by Dupuch, for his resolution of civil unrest over low wages in Nassau in 1942, even though he blamed the trouble on “mischief makers – communists” and “men of Central European Jewish descent, who had secured jobs as a pretext for obtaining a deferment of draft”.[75] He resigned the post on 16 March 1945.[34]”
       
      The point being that he spent most of the war in Bermuda rather than gambling at the casino’s of Monte Carlo.

    45. Handandshrimp says:

      Hi folks some of you may know me from films such Land of the Giant Midges….oh wait that was someone else…blame Macart he posted a link on the Grauniard 🙂
       
      Anyhoo, the whole Nationalist Nazi thing is as about as old as, well, the Second World War really. People were locked up for clairvoyance, shot for spyng and goodness what during the war yet the Nationalist brush with the constabulary lasted a few weeks. It wasn’t taken desperately seriously at the time and it certainly wasn’t in the post war period with those involved in Nationalist politics going on to lead the party into the successes of the 60s and 70s. So the question has to be why the SOS wants to make such a big play about this nearly 75 years on? Is their barrel really that empty? If they are Godwining themselves with 17 months to go what on earth will they be like this time next year?
       
      Nice site btw

    46. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Douglas Clarke
       
      Sorry, it was the WWI I was referring to, not WWII.

    47. douglas clark says:

      It is perhaps not very obvious now, but a heck of a lot of the British establishment did not see war with Germany as the only option. Admiration for fascism was quite prevelant. We could, we should have accommodated Hitler and gone to war with him against the communists.
       
      After all, what could have gone wrong?
       
       
       

    48. Erchie says:

      @Jamie
      This is the fifth decade in which I have used a computer. It’s not the interface, it’s something to do with iOS & this WordPress text box. The Magnifier/Select doesn’t work in it. This is an iPad 1 on the bloody awful iOS5, which has turned this device into an annoyance, if I could afford to, I’d dump this and get an Android tablet. Despite the Rev’s experience, I prefer Android to iOS.

    49. BillyBigbaws says:

      The most highly placed and dangerous fascist in the UK before and during WW2 was Captain Archibald Maule Ramsay.  He was able to get a hold of all Churchill’s cables to Roosevelt through a pro-Nazi contact he had in the US Embassy – these he supplied to the Germans, severely endangering the British war effort at a time when Britain “stood alone.”
      He was an extreme right-winger and anti-semite, and, of course, an MP for the Scottish UNIONIST Party (later to become the Conservatives).
      All his fellow members in the fascist Right Club were staunch unionists too.  Just like Oswald Mosley, King Edward VIII, the Cliveden Set, the Duke of Hamilton, etc. All pro-Nazi, all pro-union.  It gets boring having to repeat this whenever some bawbag on Facebook thinks they’re the first guy ever to hear of Arthur Donaldson. 

    50. Albert Herring says:

      what on earth will they be like this time next year?
       
      History?

    51. the rough bounds says:

      yawn!

    52. douglas clark says:

      Billybigbaws,
       
      I am quite interested in any evidence whatsoever that you have the Duke of Hamilton was a ("Tractor" - Ed).

    53. Handandshrimp says:

      Albert
       
      I would prefer to see them contrite….
       
      but failing that 🙂

    54. Macart says:

      @Handandshrimp
       
      Good to see you here HS. Aye, I find find it quite comfy round here too.
       
      Agreed.  When they’re starting down the road of the nazi name calling their hitting the wall in terms of argument.

    55. Doganon says:

      If you’ve eight quid spare you could let this guy know, in person, how you feel about his screed:
       
      http://www.list.co.uk/event/345713-gavin-bowd-fascist-scotland/
       
      xposted to Just checking post – sorry if you’ve seen already
       

    56. Handandshrimp says:

      Hi Macart
       
      It is nice to have a place where the current issues get aired. The Granuriad seems to have gone very light on Scottish politics and comments. I quite liked Newsnet but I don’t think the mods there ever really got me.

    57. Morag says:

      Hi Nogbad!

      Love and kisses, Rolfe.

    58. Macart says:

      @Handandshrimp
       
      Yer like a fine old highland malt, an acquired taste. 😀
       
      Aye, the Graun’s gone quiet since Severin’s last carpet bombing and I don’t think they got quite the reaction they expected from the article on Cameron’s visit (comments closed). This latest bombshell from the media coupled with the ongoing success of the FMs visit to the states is leaving them with a bit of a gaping hole article wise over the past few days. Still I expect we’ll be back to business and firefighting as usual by the start of the week. 🙂

    59. old mikey says:

      The subject of this post jogged my memory about an incident that happened many years ago. While working in Ravenscraig in the early 70’s, a time of industrial unrest there was always talk and arguments about politics. One older man stood up and was very strident. “I’ve been a tory all my life but Alec Douglas Home is a ("Tractor" - Ed), the night Hess landed in Scotland, Douglas Home and the Duke of Hamilton were seen out in a car and they were looking for him”. Didn’t mean much to me then, but does now.

    60. Handandshrimp says:

      Hi Morag
       
      Gosh people get about 🙂

    61. Morag says:

      Well, JREF isn’t the place to discuss this.  Soapy Sam even joined up, though he only made a couple of curmudgeonly posts.

    62. muttley79 says:

      Good to see you here Handandshrimp.

    63. Gizzit says:

      Macart says:
      7 April, 2013 at 10:18 pm

      @Handandshrimp Aye, the Graun’s gone quiet
       
      – bit of a rammy going on currently – “the reader’s editor” is berating the commentariat for “ad-hominem attacks on Severin Carrell”.
       
      Quite a few Guardian regulars here – plus I suspect Man in the Jar is Mafia stole my guitar, but I could be wrong.

    64. Tamson says:

      Gizzit – I read that piece yesterday. Have they managed to provide a single example of these ad-hominem attacks yet?
       
      Most of the Guardian’s output these days is click-bait, specifically targeted at the greatest volume of likely commenters. I tend not to read it anymore.

    65. Jiggsbro says:

      I see from that article that the Guardian considers Scotland an ‘area’ rather than a country, and an area no different from any other area of the UK. The Scots also have ‘a deep-seated resentment’ apparently, which I take to be Guardian language for ‘chippy, whinging sweaties’. And the use of ‘miserable jock’,  ‘whinging Scot’ and ‘Mr McTwat’ in its comments are apparently balanced by the <irony> equally offensive </irony> phrase, “a patronising Englishman”.
       
      But there’s no problem with Carrell. The reader’s editor has read one of his articles and concluded there is no problem overall. So, that’s settled.

    66. NorthBrit says:

      @Tamson
      According to JRuddy, SLab apparatchik and sometime British Rail nostalgist, criticising Sev for “showing bias and all too frequently pure malice in his reporting” is “the definition of an ad hominem attack”.
      Surely such unimpeachable logic is sufficient for you.

    67. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Gizzit
      at 6:37am
      No I am just myself!
      Wings is the only site that I comment on!
      Glad you spotted the SAHB conection though. 😉

    68. McFascist says:

      Going by the reaction among a very small number of people from the Scottish online community to an article about a factual book about the history of fascism in Scotland, fascism is alive and kicking in Scotland, today.  However, the people I refer too have probably convinced themselves that they are ‘socially democratic’, ‘tolerant’, and ‘inclusive’. 

    69. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      You know fine that the reaction is about the image, not the article. Begone, troll.

    70. McFascist says:

      The article is about  a factual book about the history of fascism in Scotland.  As such, a saltire-themed swastika is a rather appropriate image, and I regard people who become ravenously uptight about flags as somewhat silly.  
       
      So, not so much a troll – rather a voice of reason (before you organise a book, or Sunday magazine pyre).  You are making the cause look like it attracts and amalgamates intolerance. 

    71. muttley79 says:

      What exactly is your point McFascist?  I take it you are one of these Unionists who believe that the entire SNP, and their supporters are fascists?  Would that be correct?

    72. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Whatever.

    73. McFascist says:

      All I can say is that the independence cause gets somewhat tarred when a flock of online sheep go ballistic about a Sunday supplement article about a history book, and the perfectly fitting image that went with it.  This kind of over-sensitive, intemperate, stupid howling makes us look like people that no-one would want to touch with a barge pole.

    74. Juteman says:

      I’ve got a lovely bunch of coconuts……

    75. Braco says:

      No one outside Scotland with any basic understanding of the current political debate anyway, Mr McFascist.
      P.S. Are you any relation to Lord MacFascist of the old Unionist Party (Scotland) or maybe the McFascists of the old Labour Eugenicists/Fabien society?

    76. McFascist says:

      Branco, there are indies who posted on the internet to publicise their personal opinion that it should be illegal to accompany an article about fascism with an image of a swastika.  That kind of attitude is barmy.

    77. Adrian B says:

       “it should be illegal to accompany an article about fascism with an image of a swastika.”
      They also pointed out that is illegal in Germany –  whether an article is about fascism or not
      “That kind of attitude is barmy.” – Those Germans must have things wrong, just like those Nasty Nats.

    78. McFascist says:

      Adrian B:  Two points: we don’t live in Germany; secondly, if a swastika image is illegal in Germany (which I doubt, as it is an ancient Indian adornment, and such a ruling would make a lot of pictures of subcontinental historical buildings illegal) then the Germans are barmy today, not just barmy in 1933. 

    79. Juteman says:

      These coconuts are damn tasty.

    80. Braco says:

      Juteman,
      you are just such an obvious troll, trying in vain to derail our enlightened discussion over the future of Scotland. Coconuts indeed! Even your moniker is a clear act of incitement! (wink)

    81. Juteman says:

      I’m full of coconuts today, Braco.
      I have this feeling that the coconut tree has fallen. It’s done. Gone.
      A new tree will grow from this day.
      I’ve got a lovely bunch of rowans…….



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