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Feeling this

Posted on January 30, 2020 by

Just a matter of hours to go. Want it to be like:

But it’s more like:

Want it to be like:

But it’s more like:

Want it to be like:

But it’s more like:

Let’s find out. Not long now.

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  1. 30 01 20 21:56

    Feeling this | speymouth

94 to “Feeling this”

  1. Liz g says:

    9.30 at Dynamic Earth apparently..

  2. jfngw says:

    I hope I don’t feel like this tomorrow.

  3. Helen Yates says:

    Praying it’s the third one.

  4. Auld Rock says:

    HOW WILL YOU MARK 23:00hrs on FRIDAY 31st JANUARY?
    I started this week watching some of the events to mark the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz in 1945 and an end to the Nazi Holocaust that had led to the extermination of over six million people, mainly Jews but Roma Gypsies, Christians and many more. What these events should bring home to every person on this planet, especially to those who claim adherence to most faiths is that nowhere that I know of in any of the ‘Holy Books on Beliefs and Behaviour’ of the world’s major religions, except for the rantings and writings of some misguided fundamentalists of many different religions who call for the annihilation of people of a different religion. What happened in Auschwitz and many other camps to the Jewish people of Europe must serve as a lesson to all who call themselves ‘civilized’ and must never be forgotten, especially India and by the UN.
    These acts of Remembrance starting the week bringing me to Brexit on Friday and I remembered the efforts of post WW2 leaders who vowed to make Europe a better place by bringing European Nations together, starting with the Council of Europe. Giants like Konrad Adenauer, himself a prisoner of the Nazis, Robert Schuman, France, Paul-Henri Spaak, Belgium, Alcide de Gasperi, Italy, Ernest Bevin and Winston Churchill much to the chagrin of some Tories. Their efforts had been frustrated by the Soviets shutting-off all land access to the Allied Zones of Berlin but as we know the Allies responded with a massive airlift to supply the residents of West Berlin, totting-up over 300,000 flights between 1948/49 which would be a major achievement today with modern Air Traffic Control. The other and completely unintended spin-off was that it endeared the Allies to the defeated German in the street, I remember a Berliner telling me, “In 1945 those planes were blowing and burning us to bits, yet months later they were risking their lives to feed us and keep us warm.”
    The Soviets admitted defeat on the 12th May 1949 and the Council of Europe was agreed on the 12th August 1949. From this we progressed to the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) but even by this stage some now well-known anti-Europe ‘Red Tops’ were stirring-up their ‘Little-Englander’ approach to Europe and were still at during Brexit. One of them, being the posh ‘Red-Top’ that had advocated support for Nazi Germany in the mid 30’s!!!
    The UK never joined the ECSC or it’s natural evolution the European Economic Community (EEC) for by this time the UK was a financial and industrial mess. Eventually the UK was allowed in but the SNP had grave doubts about the Common Agriculture and Fisheries Policies (CAP & CFP) but as other social benefits including workers rights were introduced the SNP saw that there were real benefits for all and right up to the end we hoped that the CAP & CFP could be renegotiated but Westminster was determined to protect the City of London Casino which always trumped any other proposal.
    I will not be celebrating on Friday night and I will not be listening to more lies from Bojo, Farage or that pretendie Scot, Gove who cited his reason for ditching the EU that it caused his step-father to lose his fish business when the truth was that Gove senior sold-up, just another lie. I will be sorry to see the end of ‘Freedom of Movement’, the ban on ‘Genetically Modified Food’, the end of the Erasmus scheme and much, much more but most of I will worry about the almost inevitable damage to the Belfast Agreement.
    I will continue to proudly fly my EU flag and as 23:00hrs strikes I will be belting-out ‘Ode to Joy’ as high as my amplifier will go and look forward to the day that SCOTLAND REJOINS the EU as an INDEPENDENT EUROPEAN NATION.

  5. John Donnelly says:

    I never trust someone with crap music taste , sir I trust you

  6. fillofficer says:

    me not feelin optimistic
    me thinkin we be needin a new independence party now
    me scunnered

  7. Dan says:

    Oh, tunes remind me to post this again for tomorrow.

    The Interrupters – Take Back the Power

  8. Hmmm! Can’t really put it into words. Really sorry that this is what it has come to.

    Boris is a calculating, uncaring, elitist prat
    Brexit will be a truly unenviable star in which to exist given modern trade agreements and requirements.

    Scotland is compromised from tomorrow onwards and it will become increasingly difficult to win our way back.

    Not a happy bunny!

  9. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

    George Santayana

    I feel the same way as you@Auld Rock says at 9:27 pm

  10. Dr Jim says:

    If you’re on a polling register or someone asks you to be on one don’t tell them you’re a SNP member because you’ll never be contacted again like me by Prof Poultice or his staff, I did take their ten quid though

    Polls don’t count except for the people the pollsters want to count, and no country on earth should use polls to run a country or why did Jackson Carlaw accuse Nicola Sturgeon of having “her tame polling company to give her the result she wanted” Only someone who knows polling companies could or can be manipulated would accuse another of manipulating them

  11. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    23:01hrs tomorrow, Boris Johnson will ‘take back control’

    Shortly after his Neo-Fascist Right Wing “One Nation” Conservative Government will impose fracking and GM crops, plaster the Butcher’s Apron on Scotch whisky, Aberdeen Angus Beef, Arbroath Smokies, Stornoway Black Pudding and Ayrshire Potatoes, gift Scottish fishing quota to the English fishing fleet and starve Scottish farmers, business and infrastructure of money the Scottish Government used to give them via the EU.

    Our NHS will be subsumed into a ‘UK’ NHS, and Richard Branson and US Healthcare (whose shareholders are BritNat MPs and Lords) will be gifted your GP Practice, A&E, and PFI will spread to hospitals and schools not already conned into decades of debt to Offshore Money Men by Gordon Brown, the ‘prudent’ Clunking Fist Arch Neo Tory during his time in power.

    Holyrood will be disbanded over time, probably as short as 2 years, and we Scots will be held as prisoners and serfs in the last English colony, forbidden by our Overlords from travelling, working, resettling or retiring in our own continent Europe, by English/US 51st State ‘Homeland Security’.

    Our passports become worthless overnight on the 31st December 2020!

    Our young educated professionals will emigrate for their own good (a modern day clearances!)

    We are to be held under ‘house arrest’ for the rest of our lives.

    It is as stark as that.

    We demand our Freedom.

    If Jackson Carlaw, Ripcord Leotard, Wee Wullie 1p and the rest of that evil bunch of ProudScotsBut Brit Nats are fed up with our demands for Freedom, let them fuck off South to the ‘Mother Country’.

    I’ll take at least four to Gretna free, gratis.

    They hate the thought of a proud independent Scotland,
    not least of all because it would signal the end of their Elitist Oligarchy, epitomised by the Byres Road Collective, The Edinburgh Set and the Oil Barons to the North East.

    I am as mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more.

    ‘Dark Money’ from Saudi Arabia and Israel to Scots Tories via the Religious Nuts in Norn Irn?
    Nice little earner for betraying the land of your birth.

    Jesus, why the fuck do we tolerate all of this nonsense any more?

    But never mind, a compliant wee BritNat will be on the box at Teatime assuring us that all is right with the world, but Scotland Shite ‘cos EssEnnPeeBAaad!

    Oh look, another Toodle Oo The Noo squirrel.

    All to look forward to from 23:01hrs tomorrow!


  12. Stoker says:

    Is 23:00 hrs on 31/01/2020 going to see the birth of The WOS B-listers, The Rev’s Disciples, Whatever?

    Will the SNP announce the wagon train’s still going around in circles or will we be finally heading up moving out? Raw slide!

    Let’s hope we’re all feeling:

    One of my all time favourites & one of my favourite bands. 🙂

  13. Clive Scott says:

    Off your arses everyone and get down to Holyrood way tomorrow early evening from 5.00pm and play your part in showing the world (and just maybe even the BBC) that Scotland is a European country.

  14. Annie621 says:

    God’s Away on Business.. Waits.

    “..Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
    Killers, thieves and Lawyers..”? ?


  15. Effijy says:

    The people of Scotland are willing and strong
    The Stag and the Oil runs free
    So Gather together and greet the storm
    For Scotland belongs to me.

    The Glens and Mountains are leafy and green
    The wind and the wave fuels our sea
    and somewhere a Glory awaits unseen
    Where Scotland once more Free

    The Babe in the cradle has opened his eyes
    The Blossom embraces the Tree
    Now Roaring the Whisper Arise, Arise
    Scotland for you and for me

    Scotland Oh Scotland Please
    Show us the Sign your people have waited to see
    The Dawning has come when the world is mine
    and Scotland once more is Free.

  16. manandboy says:

    Scottish Independence in slow-motion.

  17. schrodingers cat says:

    not clicking on any of these links

  18. Jock McDonnell says:

    Newsnight currently shining a light on NHS England & its pretty grim.

  19. mogabee says:

    Disappointed and angry but keeping my ire for those who deserve it.

    Up for disrupting a UK that I despise and not spoiling good music on it!

    Apart from that, keeping my powder dry…

  20. dakk says:

    No time for music,but think NS will say something substantive with regard to Indy tomorrow as she will still want to walk proud among her people.

    Might have a ditty in mind come late tomorrow after the announcement.

  21. The transition period

    After 31 January 2020 there will be a transition period until the end of 2020, while the UK and EU negotiate additional arrangements.

    The current rules on trade, travel, and business for the UK and EU will continue to apply during the transition period.

  22. Eckle Fechan says:

    The World will be watching and listening. Speak up hen.

  23. Dan says:

    @Clive Scott

    The YES movement has been off our arses and grafting for years to show the world of our intent.
    AUOB marches have been well supported for a couple of years now.
    3 huge turnouts in Glasgow with one quickly organised just a few weeks ago in the pishing rain that still got reams of folk to attend.
    Last year in Edinburgh, also on a rainy day we managed to get something around 3% of the population to attend which is apparently a significant number in terms of a society pursuing a cause.
    The grassroots YES movement has and continues to do its bit. We just need the political side to step up now…

  24. msdidi says:

    I can’t go down to Edinburgh tomorrow but instead will join with our local Perth4Europe group Hopefully to celebrate Nicolas announcement.

  25. Dr Jim says:

    Spare a thought for the Journalists the Internet scribblers and the TV propagandists who are having to write two stories tonight with blank bits ready to insert whatever crap they all come up with to fit the agenda they hope to create when they report either their glee or disgust or happiness at whatever the FM says tomorrow then spare a thought for yourself if you fall for any of their crap

    Make your own minds up when the time comes and don’t let folk pee on your brains with their pee

  26. George Thomas says:

    heard a whisper.

    At the end of the brexit talks just before the signing of the new treaty where boris has just managed an almost perfect deal and is being lauded to the heavens by the unionist media and even getting faint praise from labour/liberal politicians the leader of the eu negotiators leans over and says ” and of course we are keeping Scotland” if only.

  27. Colin Alexander says:

    I’m more interested in what BJ will announce next. It’s like seeing how much pus comes out a boil, revolting and yet fascinating at the same time.

    An SNP MP getting elected used to make the Empire worried. Now 80% or more of SNP counts for nothing under the current SNP.

    We all used to believe the UK Govt wouldn’t dare breach Sewel. Now? Few expect Sewel to be respected.
    SNP red lines have been crossed, re-drawn and crossed again. And again, and again.

    The UK will continue to take; the SNP will do what they call “seeking compromise” and “cross-party consensus”.

    Now all the pro-Union parties are openly Imperial, fascist deniers of democracy for Scotland.
    That’s what the SNP are compromising to.

    A majority in favour of remaining in the EU. So what?

    A majority in favour of indy. So What?

    A majority at Holyrood for indy. So what?

    A majority of Scots MPs pro-indy. So what?

    Repeated mandates for indyref2. So what?

    Dragged out of the EU. Devolution powers grabbed back to WM. Continuity Bill blocked. Ideas of Sewel Convention and Home Rule reduced to sick jokes.

    WM openly boasting in legislation that UK Parliament is soverereign and that it can legislate over Scotland and ignore Scotland’s democratic will any time it wants to.

  28. msdidi says:

    For all the pessimists or just disheartened folk who have been spreading their misery on wings recently….here is a wee message from Angus B MacNeil to cheer you up!

  29. BLMac says:

    But think of the extra £350million a week for the NHS
    And isn’t Boris dead in a ditch somewhere?

  30. Morgatron says:

    Nothing sums up sadness and oncoming melancholy better than Lou’s Sad Song from Berlin. If nothing else it’s got more of a connection now with europe than we have and it does name check MQS twice! Also always had the munchies listening to it with Parliament & Funkadelic! Sure my teixs were spiked.

  31. jfngw says:

    And finally one dedicated to Westminster government of all hues.

  32. Kenny J says:

    Well, I hope Stu, and most of us here are wrong re any announcement. And if Ms. Sturgeon says, that on reflection, it will be a goer Next year, I dont mind that.
    It takes the “too soon after the last wan” story, and f*** it up. We point to the NI 1998 agreement, a ref. every 7 years if the Irish people so wish.
    And the way the polls are looking over the water, it might not be too long. Agreed by Johnson,s predecessor. Internationally agreed. Another wan o their shiboleths gone.

    ” Jock McDonnell says:
    30 January, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    Newsnight currently shining a light on NHS England & its pretty grim.”

    Jesus, the Norn. I stats. 53% seen within guides.
    ENHS running at 98% capacity, Germany, 85%. Talking about scrubbing the guidelines altogether.
    And mair o these Oldies, Ah hope no me, will faw aff their twigs.

  33. Kenny J says:

    Here,s a wee heart warmer. Sitting at Inverness bus stn, inside out of the wind. Lady, ages with myself ish, comes by and sits beside me, with 2 friends, I think.
    Asks me if I had been on the march. I said yes, I had.
    She then says, I voted NO last time, but I have changed my mind. Also said she had always been Labour, but no more. Her friends appeared to agree with her.
    So I said, well, remember you were lied to on numerous things last time, pensions,EU, more powers at Holyrood, so understandable. First time that,s happened to me.

  34. Famous15 says:

    When Jesus washed my sins away.

    A Tory prayer requiring contrition first.

    Scotland is blessed but not with universal awareness,

    Big enough, rich enough, could be intelligent enough?

  35. Liz g says:

    Famous 15 @ 12.59
    And here’s hoping that we are intelligent enough to put in faith in the young.
    I’ve said it many time’s
    We cannot set aside the fears of our elderly ( for many reasons) nor should we try.
    Campaign to the young,get them registered,and convince them to vote…. We can do this in good conscience… No one, absolutely,no one,in the Yes movement would stand for a government that won’t look after our pensioners!

    That’s the Beauty of Indy…. Bring yer government within slapping distance and they won’t dare not take care!! 🙂

  36. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    That you banging on about empathic reach again. 🙂

    It is true, human empathy is diminished by remoteness from recipient, It’s a pity the same weren’t true about loyalty to habit and tradition. Did you know that empathy can be mapped mathematically, and can help forecast the likely effectiveness of government? 😉

    Why the World Needs an Empathy Revolution
    A new book explains how we can learn empathy and have better social interactions.

  37. Dr Jim says:

    BBC have gone full psychic now and are inventing the FMs words for tomorrow plus misquoting the words she said today

    Email just in: There’s a gathering sheduled for Glasgow at the top of Buchanan St tomorrow at 10:30pm, I don’t know who’s speaking yet

  38. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 1.17
    I don’t doubt that there’s a correlation between empathy and social environment.
    And I am open to any study of it that catches my interest.
    My only caveat is that it not be grounded in the Aramaic Religious world view..
    This holds nae authenticity for me… And renders it meaningless!!

  39. Liz g says:

    Dr Jim a@ 1.38
    As far as I understand it..
    Nicola will speak tomorrow at half nine in the morning at St Andrews House.
    We .. The YES Movement… are holding gatherings after dark..
    All over Scotland.
    Then there’s a “Thing” at our parliament Saturday lunch time.
    That’s the start of it … 🙂

  40. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    Please let go of your hostility to religious belief. You and I might not follow a particular faith, but many do and we all live in culture that takes a lot of its’ values from religious tradition. Such as human rights, which are grounded in natural law, which has it’s roots in Christian theology. Though given we live in Scotland, it is understandable why you might confuse British human rights with the proper thing.

  41. Dr Jim says:

    @Liz g

    This was a SNP email I got about Buchanan st Glasgow but only gave a time and place, no other details, it was from Anne McNair who’s my branch office person, there may be more to come, we’ll see

  42. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to ‘pull rank’ here Liz.

    Grounding Human Rights in Natural Law


    Of the published reviews of Natural Law and Natural Rights, one of the most, and most enduringly, influential was Ernest Fortin’s review-article “The New Rights Theory and the Natural Law” (1982). The present essay takes the occasion of that review’s latest republication to respond to its main criticisms of the theory of natural law and natural or human rights that is articulated in Natural Law and Natural Rights.

    The response deals with a number of fundamental or strategically important issues: the freedom of thought and/or the intellectual autonomy and integrity of work within an intellectual tradition that overlaps with a “faith tradition”; the hierarchies among the basic human goods; the place of virtue in the book, and the relation between rights and freedom, and rights and virtue; the unsoundness of the Straussian bifurcation between natural right and natural rights; whether natural law is only analogically law, and the relation between moral law and sanctions; and the possibility of true exceptionless negative moral precepts.

    Jurisprudence and Philosophy of Law

  43. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. I really do hope I have to eat my hat tomorrow. 😉

  44. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie@ 2.03
    Oh, you and I are so going to have such a conversation..
    Next Wings night….
    Hostility… Fecking Hostility…. Oh my Cameron!
    Am I no the friendliest person ye ever met??
    Only kidding.. I know we’re really debating.. 🙂
    Natural Law…. Fecking … Christian..British human rights?
    Cameron take another look.look
    Think man!!

  45. Liz g says:

    Dr Jim @ 2.11
    I’m not SNP
    But as far as I understand it..
    We are all meeting on Buchanan St stepps.
    I know there’s an Edinburgh thing!!
    And I’m hoping it’s not just Central Belt…Everybody matters

  46. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    There’s two on the path, normally hot, take a plane to niger. Feels right behind america but bads’ as bad does. Did god come with you stuck or stay behind?

    Make $$$ working from home. Be independent.

  47. Liz g says:

    Dr Jim @ 2.11
    My 4 friends and I will be at the gathering in Glasgow..
    Please look for the Wings flag..
    I’d love to meet you and your’s xxx

  48. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    No, you stop and think, I’m not hear to spam pish. Am I? Would you tell your dentist how to sort your teeth?

    From Natural Law to Human Rights: Or, Why Rights Talk Matters


    Near the beginning of The Idea of Human Rights, Michael Perry states that “One of my principal goals … is to clarify and address the unusually murky subject of ‘moral relativism’ – and to do so from the perspective of what can properly be called ‘natural law.””

    This he defines, following D.J. O’Connor, as a view according to which “basic principles of morals and legislation are, in some sense or other, objective, accessible to reason and based on human nature.” Subsequently, he explains that the relation between belief in natural law and in human rights is one of presupposition; that is to say, a doctrine of natural rights presupposes the moral realism which in his view is the central core of natural law theories.

    As his discussion makes clear, Perry’s claim that human rights presuppose a natural law should be understood as a theoretical claim. At the same time, it raises interesting historical issues. That is, when we examine classical accounts of the natural law, are these explicitly linked with doctrines of natural or human rights, or something recognizably similar? (Throughout this paper, I treat the terms “human” and “natural” rights as synonyms.) And more generally, what can we learn from the ways in which our forbears drew connections, or failed to do so, between a natural law and human rights?

  49. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 2.38
    I have never, and would never say that you ” spam pish ” because I don’t think you do..
    It’s not just manners…
    My only position is..
    I,me,liz, cannot take any paper seriously that includes an assumption that a deity has input.

  50. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Fill your jars with jobbies, I’m on the silver trowel. Did the mannequin just wink at me? A brisk stroll on the edge of theory.

    Be independent. Make £££ working for home.

  51. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    If you want to destroy support for gender-ideology in law, Christian bioethics is a rather powerful tool. 😉

    Aquinas’s Theory of Natural Law: An Analytic Reconstruction
    Human Rights and Natural Law

    This chapter examines the relation between natural law theory and human rights issues. The analyses of the nature of Thomas Aquinas’ theory of law indicate that it is possible to derive a limited broad set of positive rights from a disposition account of human nature because rights are based on the duties grounded in the developmental features of human essence. This chapter also suggests that Aquinas’ theory of natural law can also be a source of a derivation of both political and natural rights.

    natural law, human rights, Thomas Aquinas, human nature, political rights

  52. Reluctant Nationalist says:


    Follow apos to get trophy. Forest ranger’s more productive when bears’ not left trail.

    Be £$£ making independent home. Leave mark.

  53. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ @.56
    Christian… Really…??
    Oh Cameron… Get this shit over to of topic!
    Prepare… To capitulate man 🙂 🙂

    Just you bloody well wait till next Wings night!!!
    Fecken…Christian….Don’t get me started!!

  54. CameronB Brodie says:

    The British constitution derives its’ legal force from moral, or natural, law. Brexit lacks any consideration of natural law and natural rights, with regard to Scotland anyway. Yet it will change the quality of social reality and opportunities available to future generations of Scots. And can be expected to damage Scotland’s public health.

    This is what proper democratic government needs to respect. As such, Britain can no longer be considered a social democracy.

    The Intersection of Natural Rights and Positive Constitutional Law

  55. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    How much legal training have you had? Please get over yourself.

  56. Reluctant Nationalist says:


    5″6′ sharwoods exiter, will weep when cornered. Genius’s’ are attracted to the colour green – spread news. Everybody’s favourite colour becomes green.

    Be Independent. Make home from £££.

  57. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude, it’s just the Royal Town Planning Institute kind of though constitutional legal theory amd practice rather essential to open democracy. 😉


  58. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Cause and special effect. If a petal falls from a pillar surrounded by rosa facticius, do they grow ears? The holy servant is ambivalent and geniuses’ love the colour of that petal.

    Make independent work be home from 00.0005.

  59. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 3.08 & 3.25
    Oh hunny..I’ve had no legal training.
    My only claim to fame is proof reading my kid’s Masters stuff!
    It’s current because I’m picking my outfit for this summer’s graduation ….
    And I’m forever thankful that the ” insufferable Tompkins ” was not the : Tutor! Or Marker! :
    I love yer stuff and I apply as it applies to me..
    But I cannot take seriously any paper that relies on the concept of a deity.
    That’s all I said…. I don’t do God’s…

  60. Robert Louis says:

    So tomorrow, NS will write an open letter to Europe, and some other cabinet ministers will attend some events about the EU. That’s what our elected Scottish government is doing to fight against this utter outrage of Scotland being forcibly removed from the EU.

    Where is the anger? Where is the fight? When will our elected First Minister actually say ‘you know what Scotland is NOT leaving’.

    It is all just window dressing from the Scottish Government tomorrow. Putting on a show. Absolutely NO substance.

    No doubt the FM will also tomorrow send another silly wee letter to London begging permission to hold a referendum, instead of simply asserting Scotland’s democratic and consitutional rights, and calling one.

    Either the SNP leadership call the referendum tomorrow, when the whole world is watching, AND ON OUR SIDE, or they will just shuffle away into irrelevance.

    Times like this are when REAL leaders stand up for their people. They take brave steps to fight for their rights. Given the track record from NS, I expect nothing, but platitudes, and a ‘wish’ for indepedence.

    As for brexit itself? Well it is simply the biggest act of self harm ever committed by any modern developed nation. It is a scheme driven by English racists and bigots who hate ‘foreigners’. It is stupidity made real. But the biggest folly throughout the whole of it has been our Scottish SNP Government sitting on its hands, doing nothing, moaning from the touchlines.

    If ever Scotland needed a leader, it needs one now. If the SNP do not act tomorrow, then all we dream of will be lost. London will know thereafter for sure, they can do just whatsoever they please to Scotland, with impunity.

    Personally speaking, I am angry as hell about brexit, and angry as hell that the SNP have let this happen.

  61. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    Trust me, this is good voodoo.

    What is New Classical Natural Law Theory?

  62. CameronB Brodie says:

    Want a wee peek at ethically oriented jurisprudence?

    The Cambridge Companion to Natural Law Jurisprudence

  63. Kevin says:

    The peeps of Scotland are Muppets.
    Sturgeon will come bearing more soft soap.

  64. Mist001 says:

    Now, this would be pretty weird so I’ll post it here in case it happens:

    I had a lucid dream last night and there was a piece of paper featuring some words written by Pete Wishart (who is someone that I never actually think about anyway) and on the paper it said, in heavy black type “There will be an announcement regarding Indyref2 today. Expect it around 4pm.”

    I’m being totally serious, not at the wind up, that was my exact lucid dream.

    Imagine if it comes to pass. How freaky would that be??

  65. Effijy says:

    Radio Clyde playing its part in suppressing Scots with
    Completely biased news reports- again.

    Earlier in the week they claimed to be ask Scots around the country
    About their feeling about Brexit.

    As luck would have it, they only managed to source rabid unionists?

    Today it’s all razzmatazz for dragged out of Europe day by your Westminster masters.
    They managed to fit in brief words from 3 Scottish citizens who were all quite positive about
    Having no rights in Britain or Europe.

    They can all look forward to having their standard of living drop, their minimal rights reduced
    and Trumps trade deals where steroid beef, chlorinated chicken and a privatised NHS awaits.

  66. Pete says:

    Just noticed that French economy contracted in the last quarter of 2019.
    Maybe the EU isn’t quite all that it’s cracked up to be on here.

  67. admiral says:

    Pete says:
    31 January, 2020 at 8:17 am
    Just noticed that French economy contracted in the last quarter of 2019.
    Maybe the EU isn’t quite all that it’s cracked up to be on here.

    Did you also notice that the OBR has downgraded its UK growth forecasts each year for the next 3 years? And that was from a previous forecast which had already been downgraded!

  68. robertknight says:

    Dearly hope today isn’t just going to be a statement of facts with more “we have a mandate” followed by a plan that amounts to nothing more than repeatedly asking the British Government for IndyRef2 until they get so pissed off they cave in and agree to it.

  69. ronnie anderson says:

    I have every confidence in Nicola ‘s announcement will enrage the Yoons . Wingers dont engadge with them .

    Cameron B Brodie

    You’ve lost the plot posting all that natural law ( nobody reads it ),theory is someone else’s thoughts & Im like Liz G no time for so called christian theory Thomas Aquines or JC himself .

    Take a break Cameron BTW Im at Holyrood on Sat at 10.30 am if you make it down there .

  70. iain mhor says:

    Haha class, our Numbers Station appeared.
    Or is more Auntie and her ‘Molasses today will bring forth cognac’ eh?
    Well Cognac last night certainly brought forth the cracked bell – I think I’ll have M12 on for the next hour instead.

  71. Mike d says:

    Apologies to everyone for last night. Too much firewater and frustration.

  72. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    Think don’t know what I’m talking about? You get a grip yourself Ronnie, or do you not consider the rule-or-law important?

  73. CameronB Brodie says:

    I just wish Scotland wasn’t so full of fucking experts!


  74. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ronnie and Liz g
    Your lack of trust in me is really disappointing. Apparently I have been knocking my pan in to no positive purpose. This is why Scotland is enslaved, everyone already thinks they know it all.

    Copyright (c) 1997 Harvard Society for Law & Public Policy, Inc

  75. Almond Chutney says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    If I may intervene, considering you absolute disrepect for other people’s opinions on these threads is the problem.

    At no point has anyone claimed they ‘know it all’ other than you, you self confess that YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, and your word is law and must be respected, well hate to break it you ya buddy but respect works both ways, listen to other people’s opinions and rather than tear them apart where you agree otherwise.

    When you said ‘Your lack of trust in me is really disappointing’ presents a severe case of delusion.

    You don’t know everything

    You are not always right

    I mean, if we look at REALITY a moment, you are already wrong by suggesting that Scotland is enslaved.

    A country that votes to remain in another doesn’t class as enslavement or colonialism unfortunately, no matter how much you try to use English to make it seem so.

    While I agree Scotland should indeed have a vote (why not?), but not by actively deceiving other’s with false propaganda.

  76. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    Go fuck yourself. I’m only disrespectful to those who deserve it.

    Heinrich Rommen, The Natural Law: A Study in Legal and Social History and Philosophy [1936]

  77. Almond Chutney says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Suit yourself.

    Satisfaction in the result of your aggression describes your very childish aptitude.

    Nicely done.

  78. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    I simply speak plainly, when required. Are you seriously doubting that a respect for natural law, is an essential consideration of rational law and democratic constitutionalism? Or are you simply trying to sow division FUD?

  79. Almond Chutney says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Yes, you set a case for ‘natural law’ as ‘a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct’.

    Where your are forcing your own principles on a basis for cause for grievance on an entire population, when support isn’t even really in a majority for it.

  80. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    You are only highlighting your ignorance of the law, and possibly a thin skin. Natural law is the balancing legal consideration to legal positivism, and keeps constitutionalism civilised. See Brexit, which completely lacks respect for natural law and can not be considered supportive of civilisation.

    Natural Law in Jurisprudence and Politics

    Natural law is a perennial though poorly represented and understood issue in political philosophy and the philosophy of law. Mark C. Murphy argues that the central thesis of natural law jurisprudence – that law is backed by decisive reasons for compliance – sets the agenda for natural law political philosophy, demonstrating how law gains its binding force by way of the common good of the political community.

    Murphy’s work ranges over the central questions of natural law jurisprudence and political philosophy, including the formulation and defense of the natural law jurisprudential thesis, the nature of the common good, the connection between the promotion of the common good and requirement of obedience to law, and the justification of punishment.

  81. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve been knocking my pan in trying to convince folk that the perspective I’m attempting to describe, may have social and political value. I’m not selling a bait and switch.

    What’s Wrong with the British Constitution?

    In this provocative new study, Iain McLean argues that the traditional story of the British constitution does not make sense. It purports to be both positive and normative: that is, to describe both how people actually behave and how they ought to behave. In fact, it fails to do either; it is not a correct description and it has no persuasive force.

    The book goes on to offer a reasoned alternative. The position that still dominates the field of constitutional law is that of parliamentary sovereignty (or supremacy). According to this view, the supreme lawgiver in the United Kingdom is Parliament. Some writers in this tradition go on to insist that Parliament in turn derives its authority from the people, because the people elect Parliament. An obvious problem with this view is that Parliament, to a lawyer, comprises three houses: monarch, Lords, and Commons. The people elect only one of those three houses.

    This book aims to show, contrary to the prevailing view, that the United Kingdom exists by virtue of a constitutional contract between two previously independent states. Professor McLean argues that the work of the influential constitutional theorist A. V. Dicey has little to offer those who really want to understand the nature of the constitution. Instead, greater understanding can be gleaned from considering the ‘veto plays’ and ‘credible threats’ available to politicians since 1707. He suggests that the idea the people are sovereign dates back to the seventeenth century (may be fourteenth century in Scotland), but has gone underground in English constitutional writing.

    He goes on to show that devolution and the United Kingdom’s relationship with the rest of Europe have taken the United Kingdom along a constitutionalist road since 1972, and perhaps since 1920. He concludes that no intellectually defensible case can be made for retaining an unelected house of Parliament, an unelected head of state, or an established church. This book will be an essential reading for political scientists, constitutional lawyers, historians, politicians, and the like.'s_Wrong_with_the_British_Constitution

  82. Almond Chutney says:

    Possibly, your argument only outlines need for revamp of a union, rather than advocate purely on the means of separation.

    I mean, poor old NS has already confirmed that Westminster practically decides Scotland’s future for now. If the most hard nationalist political party in the UK concede their defeat to a WM government, then where will the theories of implentation of ‘natural law’ apply?

    I’m only stating as such because, while you have a point – and I say this with a bit of discontent, it doesn’t form a realistic debate at this moment in time.

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    You appear determined to misrepresent me, and have a rather bizarre conception of reality, IMHO.

    Natural Law and Natural Laws

    Modern science has developed the notion of “natural laws” to describe the apparent sequential patterns of the most complex parts of the physical world. But it cannot tell us what we ought to do about arms production, or human sexuality or abortion or race, or death. Non-teleological science can no more tell us that nuclear fusion is immoral than it can tell us what is the natural purpose of the solar system. Natural Law, however, can tell us what ought to be done in light of the nature of law.

    If indeed the nature of law is that it is directed toward the accomplishment (actualization) of the proper (just) ordering (a rational and effective structure) of relations (social interactions) among men (human persons in their various states of being), then we can make justifiable evaluative judgments. We can logically call laws good or bad, just or unjust, wise or stupid. What natural laws cannot do, natural law is equipped to do.

  84. ronnie anderson says:

    Cameron I didn’t say you dont know what your talking about & Yes i believe in the rule of law but your going overboard in posting again , as for knocking your pan in how many times do people read your posts & for the most part i scroll past Cameron .

  85. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    I hope you enjoy your state of ignorance and slavery then.

  86. Almond Chutney says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    31 January, 2020 at 12:29 pm
    Almond Chutney
    You appear determined to misrepresent me, and have a rather bizarre conception of reality, IMHO.

    Here we go again. Somehow, I have a bizarre conception of reality because what I merely think, does not compute in your little fantasy. If anything, I’m suffering the retrograde effects of time dilation just by trying to piece your very long posts into comprehensible logic.

    Anyway, on the note of ‘misrepresentation’, you are the very expert at such, but again, like you, just MHO.

  87. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    If you doubt the value of natural law, you doubt the value of ethical reason. If you lack a respect for ethical reason, one’s judgement can’t be trusted. Away and learn some legal philosophy before you try condescending to me.

  88. Almond Chutney says:


    I don’t doubt the values of law at all, again you misrepresent me.

    Application of natural law is not bound to us in the society we live in. It’s good to theorize and imagine how wonderful our lives would be if we consider moral compass also in alignment with constitutional law, but frankly, I follow the laws of the land I live in and live by own set of values, merely to survive.

    You don’t like the law in its present form, then feel free to go live somewhere else, maybe do us all a favour eh?

  89. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    Are you suggesting the British constitution obtains its’ legal force solely through legal positivism, thereby denying the British constitution lacks legal force without justification through moral law? Are you sure you understand the principles of democratic constitutionalisn?

  90. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    This debate, though hopefully illuminating to some, is getting us nowhere if you come back to me with more gibberish. You’re dealing with someone who understands the law, and so is able to support the rule-of-law.


  91. Almond Chutney says:

    CameronB, no I am not suggesting that all, I don’t know where you whipped up that from.

    Clearly your area of expertise, I will admit I know almost next to nothing on the matter on ‘Natural Law’ applications and how they are, or are not comprehensive to the British constitution.

    British law IS the law, ethics are granted within the remit of a person’s belief, it is NOT expected that everybody will have the exact same ethics as you do, and are perfectly entitled to have those beliefs within reason and form a political system and a hierarchy to ensure that all conventions are protected.

    In reference to the indy vote, I’m afraid that you simply need more support, it’s not as if the whole country is on strike because you’re not getting it – in other words, > 50% people don’t really care, they just want to get on with it.

  92. Almond Chutney says:

    Whatever, I’ll agree to disagree because we do not have all day to debate, but please stop insisting you know everything about the law, because it is transient. I don’t care if you studied Law for a day or 10 years, interpretation of law is always done so on an individual basis, hence the courts and lawyers, but you don’t need me to tell you this, I’m sure.

  93. CameronB Brodie says:

    Almond Chutney
    We certainly differ, as you appear to lack a respect for ethical reason and constitutional justice.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Unlike Almond Chutney implies, I do not have a narrow view of the law, though I may have an insufficient knowledge of contemporary doctrine and practice.

    Without a respect for natural law, the law becomes simply a vehicle for socially conservative political authoritarianism. A state that only values legal positivism, as Westminster appears to do, is a fascistic state. Without a respect for natural law, the law is emptied of its’ epistemic integrity, and is incapable of delivering justice.

    The Oxford Handbook of the History of Ethics
    Nature, Law, and Natural Law

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